The Deen Show – Mafia Boss Tells Andrew Tate he’ll go to HELL without Jesus so we invited Michael Franzese to Islam
AI: Summary ©
The importance of Islam is highlighted, with similarities with Islam and the confusion surrounding religion. Pr practicing the church's values and not just the actions of individuals is crucial to avoiding negative comments and mistake. The trinity and primary motives behind his teachings are also emphasized, along with the need for further research and evidence in proving the truth of Islam. The speakers provide advice on how to handle misperceptions and avoiding false accusations, as well as providing insight into the importance of showing faith in God and avoiding false accusations.
AI: Summary ©
Have you heard of a Michael Francine?
Not a man who pledged himself to the
mafia. Is there a reason you were drawn
more to Islam than Christianity?
I don't think the problem is Islam versus
Christian. If you don't believe Jesus is the
son of God That's right. Then you don't
get to heaven. Like, look, you accept Jesus,
you're going to * pretty much. Right? Absolutely.
They believe he was a messenger. Jesus is
God, but he's the son of God. So
Jesus is the son of himself. If Jesus
is the only way up to heaven John
316.
I so loved the world. Muslims believe in
Jesus. I and the father are 1. For
Abraham was I am. Ex on this. Hey,
man. What are you talking about? Okay. Alright.
Let's ask For Abraham was I am. Let
Everything. I was reading everything. He said his
wife sent them all the books. He said
he had everything to do with Islam. You're
So does Islam. I highly doubt that if
he was not sure whether Muslims believe Jesus
came back or not. And you know what
I developed,
Andrew? I developed a healthy fear of *.
And prophet Mohammed said that that person will
be in hellfire.
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Bro, this is the Dean show.
Welcome to the Dean show. I'm your host.
Exciting. When I say exciting, I mean exciting
episode for you. I got my next guest
all the way from the UK,
you know, from Muslim lantern,
Muhammad Ali. How are you brother? Assalamu alaikum.
Assalamu
alaykum.
How are you doing, my name? Alhamdulillah. Alhamdulillah.
Glad to be here. May Allah bless you
all for inviting me. And as I was
just saying, Yani, I appreciate the work that
you do. May Allah bless you. And staying
out of just, like,
you know, things which are not beneficial focusing
on bringing benefit to the Ummah. May Allah
bless the project that you guys are working
on. This guy right here, this guy is
trying to build a dawah center in our
country. I'm not talking here right now. You're
a seller. You're trying to build a Dawa
Center here. Islam is violating my nation, my
Assalamu alaikum, brothers and sisters. This is exactly
why we need the Deen Center because we
have over 300,000,000
Americans who know nothing about Islam, like this
guy. You wanna have a talk? Yeah. These
guys tryna build a dawah center in our
country. 1 Sura 9 is the most violent
chapter of the Quran. The Deen center will
be a source of light. A mega dawah
center, an educational center,
helping our brothers and sisters in humanity
truly understand
Islam and Muslims. And brothers and sisters, remember
the great rewards of just guiding
1 person in humanity to the truth is
better than everything in this dunya. So get
in on all the rewards and blessings. Click
the link below. Donate right now. May god
almighty Allah reward all of you.
I was just talking about it, It looks
like a fantastic project. It's actually a sign,
I think for us as Muslims, inshallah, to
look up to in the UK. Try to
do something as big as this, as beneficial
as it, inshaAllah. May Allah bless you for
inviting me. Amen. I'm happy to be here.
Thank you, brother. I appreciate that. I really
hope that we can have you when we
open up Insha'Allah. Have you come out to
the, Dean Center. Insha'Allah.
Insha'Allah. That would be fantastic, Insha'Allah.
May Allah
ease our way coming back, you know, without
any issues on the way, InshaAllah.
So I wanted to, jump into this, topic
here. This is, something that, you love talking
about. I love talking about the things we're
gonna be touching upon.
Have you heard of a Michael
Francine?
Not a man who pledged himself to the
mafia, devising a scheme that brought the family
100 of 1,000,000 of dollars, but then came
a woman and a moment that made him
walk away. The name I have heard the
name, but I'm not sure who this person
is. Have you heard of Al Capone?
Yeah. I heard the name as well, but
I don't know who this is. John Gotti?
No. No. John Gotti. No idea. These were
some of the big gangsters.
Okay. Al Capone was Yes. Because you're in
Chicago now.
Right? So you have Al Capone
who actually died in prison. Oh, okay. Yep.
And then you had John Gotti. Okay. He
died in prison.
You see where this is going, right? You're
the dead
because this is kind of Where do you
start? Where do you end up? This was
a kind of a lifestyle that I used
to kind of
aspire to achieve Great Heights in and it
was a lifestyle that I idolized
some people in and, you know, you watched
a lot of The Good Fellas and Godfather.
You heard of those movies? Yeah. Yeah. These
ones, yeah. The the gangster movies. Gangster movies.
So Michael Francine,
he's a former mob boss. He was from
one of the the, top,
families. Mhmm. Called one of the family he
was part was the Colombo family. Okay.
So he ended up, his father was an
underboss,
and then he followed in his father's footsteps
Mhmm. And he made a lot of money
because he he was running a scheme Mhmm.
Taking the he was they were opening up
gas stations and then taking the tax
money from that. They were charging the tax
and taking the the tax money from there
and keeping it. And then and later it
unfolded. They got caught and whatnot.
But
he turned his life around. Okay. Subhanallah. He
turned it towards Jesus. Okay.
And he sat down with our brother recently
Subhanallah. Andrew Tate. Really? Yeah. That's interesting, okay.
Now they had a nice conversation. Okay.
I thought we were just talking about the
past and passed away.
Yeah.
So
so, we're gonna go through this sit down
that they had. Okay. That's interesting. And we'll
go ahead,
and get some of your feedback
and discuss some of these points Inshallah. So
we can help him understand
some of the points that were mentioned because
it's connected some similarities with Islam
and also,
Andrew Tate Inshallah.
Some of the things that, he he discussed.
We can help him out also. He's new
to Islam. Mhmm. So this will be very
educational, to say the least. Inshallah. And then
I was a Christian
for a while, but I think I reverted
to that because I was raised Christian. So
I was like, I believe in God again,
so I'm a Christian.
And then I read the Bible and then
I read the Quran
and then I found infinity with Islam. And
it's very interesting conversation because in a lot
of ways, they're a lot more similar than
people realize. They're actually very similar. But I
don't feel qualified to discuss
Islam like that because it's a very complicated
religion, and I'm a revert. I'm only 2
years in, and I'm learning. Alright. So they're
easing into the conversation here
and, they'll get a little bit deeper. Mhmm.
So
infinity, this is my first question to you.
He said, Andrew Tate is talking about
he had an infinity towards Islam.
Now you have spoken over the
years to many Christians, and many of them
actually accepted Islam. Right?
What have you seen in your experience draws
people toward this infinity
that people have towards Islam? What would you
say it is?
So the first thing that I noticed when
you told me about the background of this
person that he's talking with is that you
can see a change in the west Mhmm.
Was religion.
Because they've they've tried the secular kind of
mentality, tried the liberal mentality, they've seen its
influences on their children. They've seen its influences
on the community and society. It's not benefiting
the society, the families anymore. So you've see
this
huge group of people that are returning and
coming back to what they would call conservatism
or Christianity, whatever term you that you wanna
label.
And, yeah, interestingly enough here,
they talk about the things that attracts people
towards Islam. I the thing that I see
the most, to be fair, to be honest,
the most
the biggest reason I would see,
Christians turning into Islam is the confusion.
They go to the church. They go to
the priest. They go to the Arab whatever
they go to. They ask questions, basic questions.
They find that the teachings of that religion
is problematic. The teachings of that religion is
confusing, is contradictory most of the time. For
instance, that they would say Jesus is God,
but he's praying to God. Jesus is God,
but he didn't know everything.
Jesus is God, but, he died.
You know, Jesus is God, but he never
said he was God. Like all of these
things which are like very simple. Okay. There's
something called a trinity. Why is that trinity?
You go to every Christian, they will tell
you something else. You go to every priest,
they will tell you something different. That's why
you see in the church history itself, the
church fathers were were not disagreeing with each
other on what the trinity is. You had
list long list of Pharisees. Partialism
model
long list because they themselves were confused about
what the trinity was. And you had even
Augustine and his writings. It's just like he
said, it's a mystery. You know, that's We
end up,
submitting to the fact that this is a
mystery. And then you go to the next
step. Okay. There's not even trinity in the
Bible. So why do we deal with the
mystery?
That not the word trinity, because a lot
of Christians are the whole word. It's not
about the word. The concept is itself is
not there. So, what ends up happening is
that these people go to the church, priest,
whatever it is, they end up telling them
it's a mystery.
That's one thing. The other thing is that
you see the religion of Christianity has become,
nonexistent. From what sense? Religion of Christianity today
has become liberalism. Liberalism has become Christianity. Christianity
has become liberalism. They've merged in the west.
They've became one ideology. The truth is now
a lot of the people that would call
themselves Christians, they're actually liberal. They're not Christians.
I don't have the conversations before with many
of these Christians. Like, they as like you
see with the with the LGBT or all
all of these, basically, ideologies and things to
do that are against their religion
and and
insulting, which they would call blasphemy. Right? And
blasphemy was punishable by death if you look
at the Roman Empire when it's adopted Christianity.
What it did to anyone who was having
blasphemous
or,
heretic beliefs,
they were absolutely killed. Like they, they were
no,
maybe maybe This is in the Bible. This
is in Christianity? No. This is in history,
church history. Church history. Absolutely. Church history. No
one would deny this. The the the group
the groups that were heretic
were killed by the,
the the emperors at the time or by
authorities because they were heretic and doing heretic
beliefs. Right?
But today,
the people will insult Jesus, peace be upon
him. And then you only hear the Muslim
speaking. Because we do speak he is our
prophet and messenger,
and we love him, true love,
which means that you will behave and act
based on it. Right? Not just speech. Right?
Because anyone can say I love you. I
love this. This is what we hear Christians
saying all the time. Not about Jesus, but
even about us. Yeah. We love you. You
know, we love you. But then they're not
gonna let you speak. They're gonna insult you
and your family. They will attack you in
the streets. They will insult you, but, oh,
we love you. And we'll give you the
other cheek. It's just words. But when you
look at the actions, it's not there. So
the most thing that I've seen, like bringing
people towards Islam is these two things. Right?
Muslims are firm. They're actually practicing the most
practicing religion in the world, and they're actually
firm. It's because I hear this term, specific
term all the time.
They don't practice what they preach. If I
had a penny for each time a Christian
told me this, probably be rich by now,
you know. But who doesn't practice? The, The
people in the church or the people who
are practicing. They they say that not even
they don't just say the They don't practice
what they preach. Yeah. They say the theocracy.
Exactly. They say the people in the church,
this is very, very common. These words, as
I said, if you wanna put them in,
like, a penny for each time, a Christian
told me this, I'll be rich.
They say, we go to this circle,
bible circles, and they don't practice what they
preach.
What they teach us is not what they're
doing in reality. So you will see that
they don't practice what they preach. They've become
liberal,
and
the creeds itself and the teachings are confusing.
They're not supportive, and they end up telling
you it's a mystery. My experience, I would
say that's the most
is the overwhelming majority of why people leave
Christianity and turn into something else, whether it
is Islam or,
another reason. Is there anything from what you
just saw before we go on to the
next Mhmm. That stood out that you wanna
comment on? Yeah. The,
what Andrew Tate said, which is interesting is
that waiting for an individual
and not behaving.
It's not just the Christians doing that. You've
got other groups. You've got even a group
that is a very minority group in Islam.
A lot of people hear this term Sunni
Shia, they hear these terms a lot. But
the reality is that Shia is less than
2% of Muslims. They're minority,
and they're not representative of of the beliefs
of the majority.
But you will find many of these Shia
waiting for someone called them Mahdi. Mhmm. They're
not doing anything. Right? They're just living in
love the way they want to live, and
he's gonna come back. Or he's already here,
but he's gonna come out sometime.
So it's the same thing, the idea of
waiting. You have a lot of Jew Jews
as well waiting. Right? For whom they would
call the actual messiah. So this idea of
waiting,
surprisingly, it's not just with with you know,
you find it with Christians, you find it
with many groups.
And and it's it's a profound point that
he's making is that
you you you don't live your life waiting
for something. Oh, this is gonna happen. You
live your life doing the responsibilities that you
Like many people, they do all of these,
you know,
incorrect problematic calculations of when the day of
judgment is gonna come. Oh, the day of
judgement is like, yeah. 2 +2 in the
Quran. This is always gonna come in the
year. I mean, how many times they were
wrong?
And you come out,
imagine how many times they were incorrect. The
thing is these people do this and they
focus Allah on the day of judgement and
they neglect the hadith of the prophet when
the man came to him. And the prophet
told him, how did you prepare for it?
Like right now, what are you doing? What
did you prepare for the day of judgment?
Yes. When he when he asked him Exactly.
So the man asked him is when is
the day of judgment? And then the prophet
was still telling him is this time or
that time or we don't know, which is
the answer. He said to him, what what
are you doing in preparation for it? So
in this case, what what are you doing
in preparation for Jesus coming back? What are
you doing for preparation for whoever is coming
back? Yeah. Like, what behaviors or, what actions
are you and your community doing
to, enhance your life, to prepare for that,
to make the world better and more beneficial.
And that's why you see Muslims and not
we're not waiting for anyone. Yes. We believe
Jesus is coming back because he was asking
him this question and there's a little bit
of, maybe hesitation. No. Muslims believe in the
second let's be explicitly clear. Muslims believe in
the second coming of Jesus.
And and this is,
explicitly mentioned that he's going to come back
prophet
that Jesus the son of Mary will descend
upon you, because we believe he was risen
up, we don't believe he died and then
he's going to descend upon us
and and then He's gonna kill the pig,
the swine. He's gonna break the cross. So
a lot of people say why is He
coming back? We say He's coming back first
to correct the misbeliefs or miss,
confusions that happened, that people started attributing divinity
to him. He's gonna come and say, look.
Here I am. I'm not divine. I'm not
God. I'm not the son of God. And
there's your cross, the cross that you used,
I'm gonna break
it because I am a messenger sent by
God. I'm a prophet, a messenger of God.
That's the first thing. Because this confusion you're
not gonna see happening, did not happen with
Noah, did not happen with Abraham, did not
happen with Moses. So why do you need
to come back to clarify? And the second
second thing is a mission that is given
by Allah, which is to kill the antichrist.
So Muslims believe that. Like this is there's
no doubt about that. We believe in it,
but we don't live our life waiting,
when is this gonna happen? Because when that
time comes, it's gonna be a time of
trials and tribulations.
And Muslims don't wait for trials and tribulations
because the prophet sallallahu alaihi wa sallam said
there's no prophet or messenger except that he
warned his people from the Dajjal. It's a
very difficult time. It's just the one of
the strongest fitna, the strongest trial, tribulation that
will happen to the Muslims. So I end
every prayer in the end. We say we
seek refuge in the end of the prayer
we say this. It's a dua that we
supplicate,
because we are we don't wanna be in
that time. So we're not waiting for
anyone. We do believe it, but Muslims live
on their life and they practice,
as much as they can. So that's what
it says. When you were saying when the
man came to ask the prophet Muhammad, last
the fundamental measure sent to mankind about the
day of judgment,
he
Absolutely. He didn't know when it was. Absolutely.
He said, what have you done prepared for?
It reminded me, I think it's Mark 1332,
if I'm not mistaken, when one came to
Jesus, same thing.
He said the same thing. He said he
don't know. Absolutely. The angels don't know. No
one knows but the creator knows. Absolutely. So
so this is you can see the commonality
here. Right? Yeah. He could have made some
stuff up Yes. If he was a fraud.
He could have just like, you know, why
put himself in a spot like of he's
ignorant about it?
Absolutely, SubhanAllah, is the same echoing, echoing the
same statement in the Quran
is,
when he said that no one knows except
Allah. When Allah,
or or when Angel Gabriel came to the
prophet and then he said the one who's
asking does not know more than the one
who's been asked. Yeah. Essentially echoing the same
thing that Jesus, peace be upon him, said
as you said in Mark 13 32, and
no one knows the day and the hour.
So, the this knowledge has only been for
Allah, a zawajal.
It's only been a unique knowledge given to
the creator. And that's why there is no
use for those people doing calculations.
If the prophet, peace be upon him, does
not know, we who and me will not
know. And if Jesus does not know, it
shows that these people too are coming as
the prophet, peace be upon him,
I'm the closest or ally or friend of
Jesus, peace be upon him. This is prophet
Muhammad. Prophet Muhammad
Yes.
Group of people that we can see today,
man. Of America's funding, like Absolutely. Spending all
our tax people money. Absolutely. Absolutely. And they
have,
a group called APAC, and then you have
majority of the control when it comes to
the the government Yeah. And who does who
and what, and when do you do and
what you don't do. And, and the this
group is if you actually if you read
their their, Talbud and if you read the
writings and you see what they're actually saying.
Right?
About Jesus, peace be upon him, and saying
that it's a habit to to spit on
him and then saying
calling him names and and saying that he
is,
I don't wanna even I mean, this is
just for educational purposes. Yeah. Absolutely. People got
it twisted. They're taking us as but, you
know, as the enemy. But you when you
say you see this infinity that, you know,
this love that he's shown for Absolutely. Peace
be upon him. It's amazing. And then, before
we go to the next clip, it reminded
me of the hadith, the saying of prophet
Muhammad peace and blessing upon him said, if
the day of judgment was to come tomorrow
plant, plant a tree. Absolutely. Absolutely. What does
that show us? SubhanAllah.
Tree. Exactly. The the prophet said if the
day of judgment happens and you are there,
you see it, and you have a plant
in your hand, something to plant,
plant it. Plant it. Plant the seeds. Do
the deed. Don't don't stop. The day of
judgement is there. I'm gonna we're gonna stop.
So even to that extent,
Muslims are people of actions. We should be.
May Allah make us like this. But to
that extent, you see Muslims are being people
of actions. Like, even the day of judgment,
the end times is there, but still plant
that seed because that seed, you will get
the reward for it. Yes. You will get
the reward for it because Allah rewards you
also with the intention, not just with the
that that thing specifically happening. So subhanAllah, like
but so it's it's a very interesting perspective
if you expound upon what he's saying there,
I would say. Okay. So here we're gonna
go to the next one. I'm reading this
like Michael Francine. He's reading the situation and
you'll see,
if you agree later, he's gonna start giving
his dua. Okay. So pay attention to that.
Alright. Well no, you're right because faith without
works is not
it's meaningless.
But let me ask you a very interesting
because you said you believe Jesus is coming
back Yeah. And yet your is So does
Islam. They do. Yeah. So they believe that
Jesus is the son of God. Yeah. Okay.
They believe he was a messenger.
They don't believe he's the son of God.
I have to be I I I don't
wanna say anything incorrect because if I say
anything incorrect, the the Muslim world jumps all
over me. But they do believe he was
a messenger. They believe he was a prophet.
Mhmm. Along with Mohammed and along with Moses,
they believe in a lot of the same
things.
I guess the very simplistic way to understand
or explain Islam
is they believe in the Bible, they believe
in all of it, they just wrote one
more book afterwards
by one more messenger, Mohammed, peace be upon
him. And in his book, he said, Christians
are right. Everything's right.
But
there's also this part.
That's the very simplistic
view of it. Mhmm. Okay. There's a lot
to Unpack. Unpack there. Right? Let let me
start off with, what stood out, is
what Michael Francine started off with. He mentioned
faith without works. This is Islamic concept.
But usually, I mean, this is in the
Bible where James is talking about faith without
works.
But how how do you now because usually
and then you have Paul saying, you know,
your good deeds are like filthy rags. Mhmm.
Right? Absolutely. Yeah. Then this is in Isaiah,
I believe. Right. Right. Yeah. So so you
got this idea of of like, demeaning the
works
and then Paul is saying that you don't
need works, you just need faith. Right? Yeah.
And and So Michael Francine, he's more his
what he just said is more on the
Islamic side. Yes. Yes. And the criticism of
the preachers when they come to you is
that Islam use deeds, deeds, and through the
deeds that you you attain salvation, which is
now he's saying the opposite of that. Right?
Yeah. So this is the thing, Christians are
there's something that happens with a lot of
Christians. Not every Christian, but I love the
Christians. They're they're very convenient.
Meaning that they take the position,
depending on the event. Right? Right? We are
we are we today we wanna talk about
because the Bible itself is contradictory,
which allows them to do this. If the
Bible itself is contradictory and contradiction, then you
can jump to the opposite position whenever you
like. Whenever the, you know, is convenient, you
would jump to the different position. So for
example, in this case, whenever you wanna talk
about works underneath the work, they'll jump to
the James writings. Whenever they speaking against Muslims,
they jump into Paul's and and, you know,
and Isaiah's. Whenever you show them verses that
Jesus is not God, they say humanity. Whenever
you show them whenever they use other verses,
okay, this is, divinity. So they jump into
whichever kind of position,
that that is convenient for them because the
teachings itself is a contradiction.
So it allows them to keep jumping from
one to another. And the interesting thing I
wanna say here is is this. Right?
Like Andrew, he started by saying what is
I don't wanna say anything wrong. And I
wanna first say 2 things. 1st, it's commendable
to say you don't know something before you
speak Yeah. When you don't know something. So
we we wanna, like, say that this is
a commendable thing from him to say
and and that that this is a great,
attribute to say. Right? It's a great because
some people just speak, you know, like, people
asking me therefore I'm gonna speak. So he
is clarifying that. Second thing he says, the
Muslim world is gonna jump on me if
I say something wrong.
And we say that is the reason he
chose Islam.
Mhmm. This is what we say to him.
If I was sitting down with him, I'll
tell him, that's why you accepted Islam. You
accepted Islam because Muslims have real alliance. They
have boundaries. They don't allow incorrect things to
be said about Islam. They don't allow confusing
messages to be spread out. They are standing
their ground and the teachings is what the
book says, not what I think and I
feel at the moment. We don't change. And
if someone's trying to change by saying something
opposite to what we believe, we're going to
correct it. So I'll say to him that
this is what comes with becoming a Muslim.
Right? Is that you need to understand that
if you are speaking in a public sphere
and you've got a massive,
following an audience, many of which are not
necessarily educated,
there will be a need for people to
clarify
statements that are being made. So that that's
what I would say to him.
But I wanna say something else is that
for someone to say,
I'm not educated or I'm not, like, knowledgeable.
Like, right now I'll say, I'm not a
doctor. Right? Say hypothetically, I'll say, I'm not
a doctor. I'm not studied medicine.
And, I don't wanna say anything that doctors
are gonna correct me. But this is how
you operate on heart.
That defeats the purpose of what I just
said. Right? Because I just said that I'm
not I don't have specialties in that field.
I cannot then after a minute start giving
you information about that thing in which
I'm not familiar with. But I'll say with
with with our brother, Andrew, he's got, like,
a little bit of a difficult situation in
which because of his,
massive audience,
he is cornered into being asked questions all
the time of Islam because he's public
about accepting Islam, which is doing a lot
of goodness.
And that's why he's always on the spot
being asked questions. And that's why it's essential
and it is very important. If brother Andrew
ever sees this, it's essential that, we sit
down,
people of knowledge,
and we seek knowledge. Even though we look,
we we pay money for many things. To
take care of our health, for of our
health, to look, the best representative of our
banner, to,
brag and show off our cars or houses,
this and that. We do. We pay money
for many things.
Even if it needed you to fly
a scholar from a complete different continent.
So you can educate yourself,
and learn,
everyone. This is everyone we're speaking in general,
to educate yourself and learn to that which
would benefit you in the long term, which
is your afterlife. Not this life which changes
in a day you're here, a day you're
there. No. We're talking about the eternal never
ending life.
Even if you pay money, even if you
try to get someone, just to make sure
that you get a grasp of the basics.
And it doesn't take that long, yeah, to
get a grasp. Be surprised, especially if someone
as intelligent as brother Andrew. Not gonna take
that long to take a grasp so you'll
be able to represent
the beliefs, the foundations of Islam correctly correctly
and avoid any issues of anyone coming out
and saying, He's got a lot of potential.
Absolutely.
Right. He's got a lot of potential. Absolutely.
Extremely eloquent. He he yeah. He can he
can really get a grasp of these fundamental
very easily. Absolutely. It's not it's not some
complicated Absolutely. Like, and and he's very eloquent.
He's very charismatic in his Yeah. He knows
how to make people listen. Mhmm. You know,
some people only speak, people will listen. Some
people when you speak, you'll see them talking
to each other in the background because you're
not you're not attract you're not charismatic enough
for them to actually listen to you. He's
got that
charismatic effect. He's got the intelligence
and that's what led him to Islam. Because
he's got the intelligence that which led him
eventually to Islam. So now it's capitalizing on
that intelligence
through actually describing things the correct way. Now
so he went on,
to speak about certain things in which we
would say are a bit problematic,
from an Islamic point of view, regarding Muslims
and Christians and and which views they would
hold. So for instance, we would say as
Muslims is like, Muslims don't believe in the
the full Bible is correct and the Christians
are just correct the way they are and
unless we have a new book and, just
have another book on top of it. And
I understand
not to,
attack him or anything. That's not the purpose.
He said that this is a simplified way
putting it. But this is not the case
is that Muslims, we don't say that just
this is another book that we're going to
believe in. There are fundamental
beliefs
that that make distinguishes
Muslims from Christians.
And that Muslims believe that the Bible, what
people call the Bible today, is a scripture
that has been changed.
Meaning there is additions, omissions, and alterations to
the text. In fact, Christian scholars themselves would
admit to this. Now this is an important
point. This is not just Muslims making this
up. Absolutely.
I mean, there is a verse in the
Quran, Allah is saying that woe to those
who write the book with their hands. Absolutely.
Chapter 2, verse 79. Yes. But you have,
what is it, Bruce Mesker? Absolutely. Bart Aaron.
Absolutely. There's so many different academics, Bible scholars
who have confirmed Matthew didn't write Matthew. Absolutely.
Luke didn't write Luke. Absolutely. There are anonymous
books. We don't even know who wrote them
Yeah. To that extent.
And you'll find that this is like a
common thing. Like, you Brutesmas. He has a
book called the text of New Testament. It's
transmission corruption or restrictions. He talks about the
corruption himself.
And and Bart Ehrman used to be a
Christian left Christianity, and then he's got misquoting
Jesus as many as well as many other
books talking about the, problems. People, of course,
call the gospel books, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and
John. Well, they call them Matthew, Mark, Luke,
and John because we don't know who wrote
these books, and there's no point calling them
Sam, Fred, Jerry, and Harry. I mean, they're
they're written by people. We don't know who
they were written by. They are anonymous. You
might not think so because they have the
title, the gospel according to Matthew. Whoever put
that title on it was an editor later.
The followers of Jesus were Aramaic
speaking peasants from Galilee,
lower class men
who were not educated.
In fact, Peter and John in Acts chapter
4 verse 13 are literally said to be
illiterate.
They couldn't read and write. Of course not.
They were fishermen. They didn't go to school.
The vast majority of people in the ancient
world
never learned to read, let alone write. And
their native language was Aramaic. These books are
written in Greek
by highly educated,
rhetorically trained
writers who are skilled in Greek composition.
Sorry. How do you how do you, like,
how do you because this could be sensitive
to a lot of people. And, you know,
you have people who are just paid day
and night. They don't talk about their religion,
and they just talk about Islam. Right? But
when we come, I really, you know, generally,
we come from a place of love. We
want the best for all of mankind. So
when we bring these things up, it can
be sensitive, but we're not doing it with
a malicious intent to try, oh, I got
you and look at your
it's a place to bring in the information
so you can like question
and then from here, you know, look at
the completion. Absolutely. The Quran came to actually
give you an alternative here. How do you
how do you like to you know, when
you're talking
to Christians, do you find they get offended
when you bring these facts up? Yeah. Other
Christians are actually you studied this stuff in
seminary school. Yes. Yes. It's true. And and
SubhanAllah,
they have this term that they say,
truth hurts. Right? They have this Yeah. Term
and use it for a reason because it
does.
When the truth is opposite to what you
believe or you desire,
it hurts. Right? And this is the case
with muslims and non muslims. There are certain
teachers you would say to muslims that it
would be difficult for them to absorb.
And, you know, start telling them music is
haram and then you hear and they're like,
okay. And they're fighting difficulty with it. You
start telling
so truth in general can be against your
desires because this life is not for you
to fulfill your desires. Right? So what happens
is, yes, some Christians will take we try
to explain to them. It's like, if I
care about Christians
and if I want goodness for them, but
actually something very surprising is the majority of
Christians that I start meeting today are of
that view already, that they believe that there's
been alteration to the scriptures. So I don't
get that much. Just these people online that
said that just their job is trying to
to hold us back as much. Even the
academic sphere.
I don't think there's anyone who reputable, who's
an academic today
that would argue
the inerrancy,
kind of creed of the bible, meaning there's
no errors at all. I don't think it's
a single one. Now they've moved into a
complete one, complete different position. Mhmm. You're not
gonna find that anymore because of the overwhelming
evidence and manuscripts that shows that there is
changes and differences.
And Muslims believe in the truth
that can be found in these scriptures. Truth
meaning that there are true statements.
For example, when Jesus said in Mark 64,
or, sorry. It's it's in Mark 64 or
Deuteronomy 64.
Or not Jesus, Moses when he says that
hero Israel, our Lord God is one God.
Right? Yes. We believe in that. Right? We
believe Muslims believe there's only one God worthy
of worship. Like, we don't associate partners with
him. And Jesus also he echo echo the
statement that there is one God in Mark
18/18, I believe. That man asked him. So
there is only one God. Right? We believe
in that. And this is something that we
would affirm. For example, thou shall not kill,
*, steal, all of these things. Muslims will
affirm and will say, okay, this these statements
are true. But what Muslims believe in is
not what we what you call the Bible.
Bible is just from biblius, a collection of
books Mhmm. From different people. We believe in
something we call the angel. Why is that
angel? Angel means good news. And it was
direct revelation given to Jesus. While Mark, Matthew,
Luke, and John were written later after Jesus.
They were not handed and given to Jesus.
Allah says in the Quran,
and we give him the gospel. Jesus was
given the gospel that Muslims believe in the
gospel of Jesus. He was given to Jesus.
So whatever was written later is not what
Muslims believe in that we call the gospel.
And the Torah that was given directly to
Moses is not the Dead Sea Scrolls, which
is 2000 years later
written by unknown people. Just like the new
system is written by unknown people. So Muslims
will believe in truth and truth true statements
if they're there. But we take the Quran
as a criterion, as Allah says in the
Quran. Chapter 5 of the Quran, you have
verse 48 etcetera, which talks about the Quran
being the criteria
over the previous scriptures. So it shows us
where people have changed, where people have altered.
Do you use it as a standard
to to see, okay, this is against the
Quran, then there's alteration here. This is in
line with the Quran and this is a
true statement. We don't have an issue with
it. So Muslims do not wholesale, reject, or
affirm
or accept the Bible.
We are depending on whatever the teaching is,
we'll use the Quran as a criterion and
depending on the fact,
the absolute fact that there has been changes,
we will affirm that which is true, and
we will deny that which is not. Yeah.
So,
to help people understand,
so you have the Bible
because many Muslims actually fell into this also.
They say, yeah, we believe in
the the Injeel is the,
New Testament. Right? Yes. And they'll say, Yeah,
we believe in the Bible. But just so
people can understand,
these are anonymous books in there. So you
have the word of God in there, the
word of the prophets,
historian, disciples, Sahaba, It's just a mixture. Like,
the Quran is the words of the creator.
Mhmm. The Hadith, now,
the words of prophet Mohammed. Yes. Then you
have the words of the Sahaba. Yes. Right?
So it's separate. Yes. Absolutely. So the Bible,
so people understand, everything is just mixed up.
Mhmm. Right? Mhmm. So now to say that
you we believe in the whole Bible, you
gave a great example. Hero Israel, the Lord
thy God is 1. That's the pure monotheism,
absolute monotheism.
That's confirmed by Prophet Muhammad, Moses, all the
prophets. But then there's things in there,
and again just making this example so it
can hit home for some people, some things
that we would strongly object to these are
lies, distortions, for example,
Lot in Genesis
having relation I know it could be sensitive
to a lot of people just this because
the prophets are the best
men that walk the earth. But the question
is this, if it's sensitive, how can it
be in the scripture that's from God? Like
like if you're right now, you're you're I
get uncomfortable talking about it because these are
things that Yes. Right? That's a good point.
And I'll I'll imagine you get uncomfortable talking
about
Quran. Is there something I'll be like, okay,
how can my children read this book that
in which I can be uncomfortable? And we're
not talking about other verses that talks about,
like, very, like, we're just being But you
get the point I'm trying to make. Absolutely.
But that's a good point right there. Why
would you feel uncomfortable, but you can't sit
your daughter on her lap and say, hey,
we're gonna we're gonna read this together. Yes.
And then, you know, what is it, Timothy
3:16? I think it was that all Scripture
is for correction and reprove. 2nd Timothy 3:16.
So there has that means that what's the
moral of the story? Is it for what?
Learning a lesson?
For righteousness to
guidance? What is it? So there are things
in there,
with all due respect to Michael Francine
and anybody else who's now
listening, a Christian, our Christian friends, neighbors,
is that then you have other things
in there,
making some of the prophets like idol worshipers.
Yeah. Absolutely.
David Solomon. Solomon. David with the woman that
that he killed so he can do adultery.
Adultery. Right. Communication with the other woman. These
are lies. Blank. There's no debate about this.
Mhmm. Right? So these parts, we can't if
we believe in it, then we believe in
all this. Mhmm. But we don't. Mhmm. Because
these are these are things were that been
Absolutely. Thrown in there and And the interesting
thing is this, is that the Bible itself
calls Lot a righteous servant.
In which there I'm surprised, like
because the thing is they say he drinks
and then he was drunk. Okay. But getting
drunk, that drunk is already a sin in
Christianity, let alone Islam
now. So it's you can the Christians you
can drink a little bit but not drunk.
So getting drunk to the extent in which
you cannot recognize 2 times. 1 daughter 1
night and the other daughter the second night,
this is like a little bit like,
to be polite.
So,
these things we this is why we're Muslims
say Noah also. Noah. Yeah. Yeah. All all
We compare him When it comes
when it comes to the prophets and messengers,
it it it is back to
whose writings are these Old Testament? Which nation
was writing this? The nation that went to
the extent that did not leave God, let
alone the prophets and messengers.
God
forgets and needs to to to be reminded.
He regrets.
He's weak and he's defeated, when he's fighting,
you know, in Genesis against Jacob.
All of these things are attributed, let alone
now people, humans, the creator himself
has not, you know, been safe. He's not
safe from, the changes and manipulations that took
place.
Professor Messenger wouldn't be. So that's why Islam
comes to rectify and correct like and I
always say this this very simple question to
people. Okay. Look. I'm coming to learn from
you and I know that you had *
with your own daughters. Would I learn from
you? No. But that Absolutely not. The now
imagine the examples from mankind who were supposed
to teach mankind. How is he supposed to
be example for me now? Then that opens
the door for someone to go ahead and
do the same thing. Absolutely. He did it.
He's a man of god. Abs And he's
a righteous servant. I'm also a righteous servant,
and I'm doing the same thing. God called
him a righteous servant, so why not call
me a righteous servant? But then Jesus died
for your sins. You're all good. You see.
That that is a contradiction, and that is
where people do not relate.
This is where people start, okay. Uh-oh. This
is a bit now. It doesn't this does
not make any sense. Jesus died for our
sins, I can do whatever I want. He
already died for that sin. Whatever sin I
do right now, he already died for that
sin. You'll see, no. No. No. No. If
you believe in Jesus, your righteousness will stop
you from doing sin. And every single one
will admit that they're still committing sins.
They are still. And the interesting thing is
there's a verse in in first John that
says
that
whoever believes in Jesus or has Jesus in
him or believes in Jesus, he cannot commit
sin.
And whoever commits sin is a child of
Satan.
So it says you are a child of
Satan. Basic basically you don't know Jesus and
Jesus is not in you if you still
commit sins. And every single
Christian commits it. Whether they accept Jesus or
don't they don't, they still do it. So
how would you then explain this verse that
you have in 1st John, which explicitly tells
you that you are the child of Satan
if you still commit sins? Because realistically, God
created us this way in a way in
which we will fall. We'll make mistakes. It's
not a justification
to commit sins, but it is that Allah
is asking you to do as best as
you can. And that best as you can,
you're not gonna be perfect.
You will fall, but you stand up and
then you repent and you come back you
come back to you come back to the
creator because God created you that way. And
then it's a given that this will happen.
It's not an excuse for doing it. It's
a given that that it will happen sooner
or later. And that's why,
our brother Andrew here, he's trying to bring
the idea closer,
but yes, this is not the case. We
don't we don't like believe the same thing
as the Christians. We don't we reject the
trinity. We don't believe in the,
in the death of, Jesus. We don't believe
Jesus died as the Christians believe. We don't
believe in the original sin, and therefore the
forgiveness of sins based on that. We we
scripture as we said, we believe there's issues,
with the preservation when it comes to the
the scripture.
All of these are fundamental differences between the
Christians and the Muslims.
And, therefore, we cannot say it's just that
they're the same just just another book. We
believe in previous books as well that were
given to previous messengers.
Like, the Torah that was given to Moses,
not the one that is that it's the
scroll that people say today. We believe in
a scripture that was given to Abraham, Saraf
of Ibrahim. We believe these previous messengers, they
had revelation. It's not necessarily preserved right now.
A lot of the people say,
can people change God's words?
We will say is that Allah entrusted the
rabbis and the priests. As Allah says in
the Quran chapter 5, that he entrusted the
rabbis and the priests to preserve
the scriptures, the test.
And they did not preserve it and Allah
took it upon himself to preserve the Quran
because it's a scripture for eternity until the
day of judgement. And that that's why Allah
took that mission.
Alright. Let's go to the next
clip here.
But the separation is
that if you don't believe Jesus is the
son of God, That's right. Then you don't
get to heaven. That's right. And that's scary.
Yeah. You know what I developed,
Andrew? I developed a healthy fear of *.
Yep. You're in the hole.
If this is
it, if this is the rest of eternity
like this only a 1000000 times worse, and
even if it isn't worse, this is it.
Yeah. I'm here alone by myself, separated from
everyone I love and this is it.
And at that point in time, I had
my bible in there. I had my wife
send me every book you can imagine. Christian
faith, Hindu,
everything. I was reading everything.
And for me,
the separation was okay.
All this makes sense.
But
if Jesus is the only way to heaven
and I reject that, then no matter how
good I am, no matter what else I
do, I'm going nowhere. This is gonna be
eternity for me. In fact, and I like
when
because sometimes there's the elephant in the room
and now it's like when we get this
elephant out of the room
and
we let people know like he was giving
down one now. He's letting Andrew know, like,
look, you accept Jesus or you're going to
* pretty much, right? Mhmm. Absolutely. Yeah. So
now
it opens up so that we can also
share, and we come from a place of
love. We want the best for mankind.
The same thing, you have now and we'll
get into, you know, did Jesus actually say
that if you don't take me as a
little son of God,
if you don't did he say that I
came to die for your sins? I'll ask
you that. But the same thing here where
prophet Mohammed,
peace and blessing be upon him, he said
the one who hears about me, Jew or
Christian,
and denies me. Right? You get a clear
understanding right now. Michael Francine, he's listening to
this. We're gonna explain who prophet Muhammad is.
We're gonna explain the the true nature of
Jesus. Mhmm. And pro Mohammed said that that
person will be in the hellfire. Mhmm. Anyone
the Quran is clear. Anyone who associates partners
with God. Mhmm. This is like just so
easy to understand. One God Mhmm. And if
you violate that, if you set up partners
with God, you make a human you make
Muhammad God. You make money your God. Absolutely.
Anything
alongside with God, that's hellfire if you die
upon that. Absolutely. But you could have been
doing that and you repent and God can
forgive you. So what do you think now
from what he was saying? Where do you
wanna go from?
Subhanallah,
first thing I wanna highlight the contradiction I
heard personally, which is what where people try
to be apologetic in a way in which
is problematic, in which he said,
we say that these other religions can be
good,
but can be good but go to hellfire.
That makes no no sense for me, like,
personally. Like I think anyone hearing is, how
can something be good and lead you to
hellfire?
And this is where we as muslims would
say no. We don't say believing in these
religions is good. We say believing in these
other faiths other than Islam is polytheism.
It is shirk.
It is denying God. It is we we
didn't call that good. Right? And this is
where it will make us distinguished from being
apologetic and being, oh, no. No. It's all
good. No. No. It's not. Because how can
you be good if you'll end up in
an entire hellfire? That makes no sense. That's
the first thing that I noticed in what
he was saying. And the second thing I
noticed is like, this idea of fear of
hellfire,
which is,
I think the opposite of the message of
Christianity. It's another contradiction I find. Because when
you go to churches, you go to Christians,
the the last thing they tell you is
about hellfire. Right? So that's a good point.
So Michael is actually closer to Islam Yes.
Again. Absolutely. Michael, I mean, again. Because I
would tell him just go to the church.
Which church is he talking to you about
hellfire? I'll even say love love love. Yeah.
Jesus loves you loves you that reason. That
that that's why you listen. Be forgiving, give
the other cheek. This is the message that
has been pushed of Christianity. So right now
I see you're given the message of Islam
in a gaze of Christianity. Like You're giving
Michael, you're giving the message of Islam to
the gaze of Christianity? Oh, no. No. In
a many covered as it is as if
it is Christianity or something. Right? We say
no. That's that's not how it is. Right?
So we'd say the truth is this is
the message of Islam. What you're given right
now, what you're saying is that there will
be punishment, etcetera. This is a message of
Islam. It's not the message of Christianity.
Message of Christianity is about someone came died
and everyone is forgiven, everyone is good. That's
why when you look at the Bible, there's
no description of hellfire.
How can you support what what fire are
you scared of when you're reading the the
scripture? You only have something called the lake
of fire. That's it. They took probably took
all those, the *. Where is that? Where
is that? Where is the in detail description
of the punishment? Detail. Absolutely. Paradise is detailed.
Absolutely. Hellfire. Like no other book out there.
Absolutely. Absolutely. Telling you specific types of punishment,
telling you how,
those who disbelieve in our verses will make
them test the fire.
The way every time that their skin is
rosy, we replace them with a new skin
so they can feel the pain. That's another
absolutely sign right there. It's amazing. Absolutely. Absolutely.
So so you've got all of these verses
that give specific descriptions of punishments.
That's why we see another wisdom here, which
is the wisdom of Allah speaking about punishment.
Because a lot of people come and say,
why is it all of these speech about
punishment, this and that? Reason is that there
are people who live a
very strong and sinful life in a way
in which their murders, their characters, in which
that can be a huge deterrent that returns
returns them back to the truth. There are
some people who who prefer, you know, gentleness
and night and night and night and kindness
and love and mercy. That's why Muslims, they
are like Sheikh Al Aslam Al Qayim said,
they're like a bird with 2 wings. Yes.
One wing is the fear and the other
wing is the hope. Complete balance. Absolutely. So
we've got this balance that we apply
and through that balance that we apply we
work as Muslims. We don't just recline on
one side and leave the other side. But
this fear of hellfire,
I think a lot of Muslims need.
The truth is there's a lot of speakers
who are
too,
apologetic,
too nice, too they never talk about
things which are also difficult. They never talk
about punishment. They talk about only mercy, a
love, of forgiveness which is good, a part
of Islam. But you have a half in
which you're selling people a different message. This
is not the message of Islam that is
just forgiveness and peace is the message of
Christianity now. The message of Islam is that
there is a balance. Allah is in Allah
is
severe in punishment and punishment. Allah
is forgiven and merciful. Allah in one verse.
In multiple locations in the Quran, you will
see that Allah links
the punishment
and and the forgiveness. In one verse to
tell you, look, there's a balance.
Be afraid if you live in a very
sinful life, but also know the the door
of repentance is is open. It's there that
Allah can forgive you. But at the same
time do not transgress and think you're gonna
live your life do whatever you want to
do. There is a balance. So we tell
him that that message that you're preaching, that
message that you're giving the public now, the
message the message that you're conveying is the
message of Islam,
not the message of Christianity that tells you
about just forgiveness on someone's side. To Michael
again. Absolutely. The former office boss. 100%. This
is the message to him? Michael, come on,
Michael. You're closer to Islam now. Did Jesus
ever ever
explicitly,
you have implicit and explicit statements in the
Bible. Do you have any explicit statements that
Jesus said, Look,
that if you don't believe me being the
son of God that came to die for
your sins, you're gonna go to the hellfire?
Because I mean it it would be unjust
that if things,
if you're getting pulled over at a policeman,
there's no stop sign. It's just like you're
supposed to figure it out on your own.
But here,
is there anything that you've seen, that you've
come across
that's clear? Because he's saying he's pretty much
telling Andrew like if you don't accept Jesus
as your as the son of God coming
to die for your sins, you're basically going
to hellfire. Absolutely. Now I'll ask a question
to return. Yeah. Have you ever heard the
debate
in which someone says let's debate whether Allah
says his God or not? No. Ever in
your life? Have you ever like, search the
internet. The debate
whether if Allah, the creator Yes. Yes. He's
God. Is saying that he's God. In the
Quran or in Islam? Yeah. Have you ever
heard the debate titled this? No. Absolutely not.
No.
In history, have you heard a book a
book written with this title? No.
Now how many debates and how many books
and how many things have you heard about
Jesus saying this?
Now the reason I try to flip it
is for people to understand. It's that this
is a foundational belief.
If ever there was a clear description, like
there is in the Quran saying that Allah
is God worthy for ship, etcetera, there would
never be a debate throughout history.
Of anyone ever trying to say that Jesus
did not say explicitly that he was God.
Now, and there would be no need because
Muslims would lose. We started the day. Okay.
Let's see if Jesus said he's gone. The
next the guy is gonna come. Okay. Mark
1:1, hypothetically, Jesus is our own god. The
debate is over, and the Muslim is lost.
But the reason we have these debates is
because we know for a fact, without a
shadow of a doubt, that there is not
a single
verse that is unequivocal, that is clear, that
is not ambiguous,
not one.
From Jesus himself
saying that he is God,
saying asking the people to worship him, saying
that he's equal with God. Push back a
little bit. Yeah, of course. You're welcome to
push back and this is it. Like like
I've been doing this for a while and
not just me, people before I was born
and people before they were born have been
doing this, have been asking the questions. Hey,
come. Let's show us these statements. Before Abraham
was, I am. Ex on this. Hey, man.
What are you talking about? Okay. Alright. Before
Abraham was, I am. Let's respond. Like I
always have a funny response to this this
which is specifically in
John chapter 8 verse 58, the verse that
you just quoted. But I just say, okay,
before Abraham was I am, explain what does
that mean?
What does that prove? What what is the
meaning of this verse?
Now, they they stop there, surprisingly, you know.
What is really funny is like almost every
Christian asks what does that mean? They don't
know how to respond. Which shows to me
a robotic
kind of
preaching from the church. That they take words
but they don't understand what words means and
they go around with it using it as
evidences. Okay. My question is what does it
mean?
I'll help them. Sometimes they usually have I
have to help them in the end because
they don't know. I'll say there's 2 views
there that Christians use. Whichever view you wanna
take.
Right? First view is that they say, I
am is the name of God. And they
usually go to Exodus chapter 3 where where
where Moses is like speaking with God and
God said to him, I shall be what
I shall be hey asher hey in which
they will say I am. That's not what
the Hebrew says. But But you actually recite
it now in the Hebrew.
The Hebrew. What the Hebrew says. Or I
shall be, what I shall be, etcetera. But
they translate as I am what I am.
Let's accept the trans look, I like to
be generous with with our,
Christian friends and,
you know, listeners. I'll say, okay, let's accept
your argument. Okay. It's it says
I am is the name of God. Let's
take the argument. So I am is the
name of God. So
let's remove I am and put God. Because
I am is the name of God. It's
a noun. Right? So let's put God.
Before Abraham was
God.
K. Do you disagree that before Abraham was
God? Does any human being disagree that before
Abraham was God? And that makes perfect sense
in the context because a lot of people
don't know the context. Fact, the 99.9% of
the Christians I mentioned is don't know the
context. Context is that they were speaking to,
Jesus and he mentioned Abraham, and you've told
him you've not known Abraham.
You're, like, somewhat 3 years old. You've not
met Abraham. You're still young. Abraham was way
back. Then he told them before Abraham was
high. Which if he says before Abraham was
God, he means that God was there since
eternity. So he can tell me about Abraham
and I can tell you through God about
Abraham. I can tell you through about him
through Moses. I can tell you about Moses.
I can I can tell you about anyone?
Because God who is there from the beginning
can tell you everything. So that's one
way to understand it. Okay? So it doesn't
work, it doesn't help you if you say
I am is the name of God. Because
he has to say I am I am
in this case. He has to say I
am the noun. I am God. But he
didn't say that. He just said one I
am. The other way to understand this, they
will say it means that he was eternal.
Because Jesus,
was born after Abraham 1000 of years, etcetera.
That means he was eternal. We'll say, no.
First, we agree that he was eternal
because that does not say he was from
the beginning just as he was before Abraham.
And a human being can exist before Abraham
and still not be god. The devil was
there before Abraham, was he god? He's not
God. So just existing before a prophet does
not mean you're eternal and it does not
mean you're God. But we'll say okay, let's
accept he's eternal. Be nice again with with
the Christians. And I just give them the
ground. I say, okay, you wanna use it?
Let's accept the argumentation, which doesn't even you
don't have evidences for it, but let's accept
it. Okay. He is eternal. Eternal does not
mean God because you look at Melchizedek, who's
a contemporary of Abraham, who's mentioned in Hebrews,
I believe.
Who the Bible says has no beginning, no
end. No genealogy.
No beginning of time, no end of days,
you know.
And he is eternal. Mhmm. And it says
in the likeness the son of God. So
he's not the son of God. He's not
Jesus. And it was a time for Abraham
before Jesus.
So this person was a priest, the high
priest according to what the biblical commentators would
say, and they don't know what his identity,
have no clue who this is, but he's
eternal.
So if someone is eternal, therefore,
their God,
then you have to accept Melchizedek as also
God.
So either way, we say to them,
this verse there does not support you in
any way, shape, or form, and I'm just
being kind enough to explain it to you
and take your incorrect positions and still tell
you why it does not work. And, yeah,
what else?
Let's go to the to the next clip.
But that's the one separation.
I understand.
And that's important. And that's that's something you
really need to figure out and think about
because if he is the only way to
heaven, no matter how good you are, no
matter what how great the country, doesn't matter.
Yeah. So I guess that's it. That's,
the conversation takes another shift, but Mhmm. You
really so he's emphasizing emphatically that you really
need to consider, Andrew.
He's letting him know because he knows Andrew
Tate accepted Islam. Mhmm. He's Muslim.
And so he's letting him know that, okay.
You really kinda gotta reconsider this. True. Yeah.
You like all these things but Andrew lists
a bunch of things that he likes and
loves about Islam. Mhmm. But at the end
of the day those things might be good,
but here your salvation you're losing it. Mhmm.
You know SubhanAllah we just we respond to
the verse of the Quran. Mhmm. Allah says
in the Quran.
They said
Mhmm. Produce your proof
if you are indeed truthful. And we're we're
welcoming this message to anyone.
Where is the proof
that what you believe is correct?
What you believe is objectively true? We're not
asking for personal experiences, what you saw in
your dream, you're about to have an accident.
Everyone has this personal experience, you know. I'll
mention something very briefly, you know. A personal
experience, but people don't say okay this is
like not. But it's still a personal experience
that I had here in the US just
few days ago.
That doesn't mean I say now islam is
the truth. Like
when I usually travel I bring my air
sometimes I work out, I use them for
working out or when I'm in the plane
or whatever it is. I forgot them because
I was in a bit in rush when
I was leaving.
So I ended up not bringing them. And
when I was at the hotel back in
New Jersey,
I thought okay, let me,
order a new one. Let me order a
new head Right? But I got so busy,
you know, the conferences, 1st day, 2nd day,
3rd day, we give 3 we give, like,
3 lectures, etcetera. So I became busy, busy,
busy. After one of the lectures, someone came
and give me a
gift. And, you know, usually when people give
gifts, they just give, you know, a pair
for you and my watch, whatever it is.
I opened the box and I look at
my iPhone AirPod. It was a earpods? Earpods.
And I was like, for me, this is
a sign. For me, it's not just a
sign. It's like this is I was about
to order this. So instead of ordering it
online, it's been ordered for me. I was
gonna buy like these like Dormel ones, cheap
ones, like they gave me these white ones
that I believe they're expensive, right? They're apple
ones or whatever it is.
And subhanAllah, like, I didn't even say anything
to anyone, to any human being. And don't
tell me this is a common gift, like
the to speakers, to a Muslim speaker given.
This is not a common gift. Muslims usually
look for me swag,
letter, prayer mat. These are you know, you
probably know. Right? These are the common gifts
that muslims would give us specifically to give
airport.
In a situation which I was about to
order 1. Okay. Now can someone come to
say, look, therefore Islam is true. Allah has
given me something that I was about to
get directly exactly I was given. I'll say
no. Personal experience is not a proof,
for other people.
For you, it can be okay, that there's
a sign that maybe okay, there's something happening
here, but it's not an objective,
evidence. Now Now we're asking those Christians, not
to, don't come and tell us I've seen
Jesus in my dream. Look, we've heard the
stories
many, many, many, many times like you can
watch the videos like there's endless people with
the same story.
What proof objective can you present
to show us as as you said? Because
I'm I'm I'm scared. Aren't you scared that
if you upon falsehood, you're gonna be in
the sun and have fire? We are Halas,
we've studied Christianity. We looked at scriptures. We
looked at the evidences. We looked at the
history. We've given you explanations of what these
verses say. We're telling you names of books
in which most Christians wouldn't do because we
are people of investigation. When we say we're
scared, we actually acted upon it. Now the
question is returning back to him, have you
looked into
Islam? Have you actually looked at the evidences
that Muslims present? Because the same thing you
said, Allah He said his wife sent them
all the books and he read all, he
read everything.
He said he had everything to do with
Islam. I highly doubt that if he was
not sure whether Muslims believe Jesus came back
or not. Yeah. I highly believe that. I
I would hardly,
doubt that because this is like a basic
thing if you're just looking into similarities or
differences between Islam and Christianity. Yeah. I had
many people who say I've studied Islam for
20 years and I just ask them basic
questions that
there's nothing there. So,
we would say Allah just says explicitly in
the Quran.
All your religion acceptable in the sight of
God is Islam.
Whoever seeks any other religion other than Islam
might be accepted from him. As you said
the hadith of prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam. No
Jew or Christian will hear about me and
does not believe in me or that which
I was sent with depending on the generation
except that we will enter the hellfire.
Jesus the son of Mary, peace be upon
him. Allah is mentioning him in the Quran.
He said to his people.
All my people.
Worship Allah my Lord and your Lord. Go
to the bible, chapter 20 of John verse
17. Jesus says, I'm going back to my
Lord and your Lord, my father and your
father. Same statement.
Worship God, my Lord and your Lord.
And then he says
whoever associates
Allah
paradise is gonna be prohibited for him. He's
not gonna enter paradise. Oh, that's scary. And
that is scary. And his abode will be
the hellfire.
And the wrongdoers will not have any allies.
So are you saying now
blatantly that if anyone worships Jesus
as a god or a son of god
and dies on that Mhmm. So Michael Francine
right now, he can just make the shift
and say, look. I'm gonna worship the one
Jesus worshiped. That's different. But if he was
worshiping
Jesus now and he dies on that, he's
gonna go to the hellfire?
Absolutely. Why don't you follow what Jesus told
you? Jesus taught you the heavenly father prayer
that you call it, which is our father
and But who but who are you to
send people to *?
This is a great question. I'll answer by
responding that I don't. The one who does
is the creator and that's why we're asking
for proof and evidences. For where is from
God and why is from man? Why is
from humans? So it's been changed and manipulated.
And we'd say Jesus himself, whom you call
your God,
he's told you to worship the father alone,
never told you to worship him.
And in Matthew chapter 7 verse 21, he
says in the in that day, the second
coming, what he will say to the people.
They will come to him and they will
say, Lord, Lord, we've done many miracles in
your name. They'll say, Lord, they'll call him
Lord, Like the Christians today do. And they
will say, we've done many miracles in your
name. Cast out demons in your name. And
then what is Jesus gonna say? Get away
from me. I never knew you.
This is in the Bible by the way.
This is not reciting the Quran or something.
Saying the biblical teachings. And then he will
say, you lawless, you don't do the will
of the father, you don't do the work
of the father. It's about
father. It's about doing the law. It's about
obeying the father. It's about doing these things
and not like what Paul told you or
what anyone else told you. So if you
are scared
about being in the hellfire,
if I were you, I would do my
research. If I were you, I'll look what
is the objective evidences that Christianity is true
and it cannot be that I'm born in
a Christian society. John 316.
Absolutely. Same thing. God so loved the world
Yes. They hate you. That he sent. Yes.
Yes. They give.
His only
son? Yeah. But they say begotten and then
they say that begotten is a fabrication. What
if you translate it like this? If you
say, look,
because a lot of things have been mistranslated,
you know, because you have in Hebrew and
Latin, Greek Yes. Now you're in English. So
for God so loved the world I'll I'll
I'll take that first. No problem. Yeah. Yeah.
For God for God so loved the world.
You can you can put it in a
in a way that we would agree with.
Can you? Yeah. No. No. There's nothing wrong
with it. Yeah. For for God so loved
the world that we have the problem with
the Sunday. Yeah. But it says for whoever
believes in him do you believe in him?
I believe in him. Yeah. Shall have eternal
life shall have eternal life. So we believe
in you. Yes. So if you change if
you say for who,
for God so loved the world that he
sent his only servant Yes. Because in the
language of the Jew, son meant servant. Yes.
Someone who is the man of God. Right?
So who believes in a servant, messenger, Jesus,
like we do Yes. Shall have what? Eternal
life. So what's the problem? No problem. We
believe in that. That's it. And And even
that word begotting that was there in the
scriptures been removed. It out. Yeah. Check open
yourself the the King James and then open
the other ones in IV. They will say
to you that this is doesn't exist in
them. Islam Muslims and Christians are saying this.
And so we don't have to deal with
begotten at all.
Go ahead. Finish what you're saying. Yeah. And
I was I was just gonna say on
this idea of sun as you said, sun
meaning it takes care of you, etcetera. Or
if you wanna take it, it's not unique
to Jesus. Like, whichever way you wanna take
it, the whole Bible says, let's be the
peacemakers for they shall be called the sons
of God. Ephraim is the first born. David
is the begotten son of God in this
case. David? Yeah. In Psalms 27. Begotten is
called. You are my son today. I begotten
you. This is in in 2 Psalms. Right?
Adam is the son of God and in
the bible, all of these things. So this
son cannot mean what Christians understand it to
mean. Mhmm. And we would say if you're
saying whoever believes in Jesus, if this verse
means whoever believes in Jesus will have eternal
life,
Muslims believe in Jesus.
I and the father are 1. You and
the father are 1. We'll say, okay, again,
I always ask this question. Right? Why don't
we look at the context? Right? What is
the context? What does the context say? And
most of them don't know. So Jesus was
walking in Solomon's Porch. The Jews surrounded him,
they said, who are you? Tell us clearly.
He's, he said,
are you the messiah? Tell us clearly. He
says, I told you, but you don't believe.
Then he talks about his followers. He says,
they are my sheep. No one can plug
them out of my hand. No one can
plug them out of my father's hand. So
he's talking about plugging the believers out of
his hand. Then he says, I am my
father and one in this, that we can
no one can take the believers out of
our hand. But now,
here is the interesting thing is this, is
that the Jews
misunderstand Jesus exactly like the Pharisees that they
have a problem with. Because the Pharisees picked
up stones to stoned Jesus, misunderstanding
this verse. Like the Muslims telling them you're
misunderstanding this verse. Same exact thing, subhan'Allah.
And they try to stone him. And then
Jesus, says why are you stoning me, for?
You stoning what of the which of the
good works that I'm doing, the signs that
I'm showing you that I'm from God, are
you stoning me? They say we stone you
not for the good works, but for blasphemy
because you're a man claiming to be God.
So far, this is a belief of who?
Christians. Christians believe Jesus using this verse, the
statement is claiming to be God. Yeah. Now
if Jesus is God, they say, of course
I'm God. What what are you talking about?
Oh, blasphemy. I cannot don't blaspheme. I'm God.
Perfect perfect opportunity. Absolutely. In fact, he now
corrects them and I believe this verse there
is a clear refusal of him of the
idea of him being God, divine.
Because if he was, he will accept it.
In fact, this verse is one of the
strongest, I believe. Strongest verses because he's refused
and rejecting the claim that they're making about
him that he's blaspheming. He said to them,
does it not say in your scripture, quoting
Psalms 82 verse 6, that you are gods
and the sons of the most are you
are gods. Right? Doesn't it say in your
scripture that you are gods?
So he's saying to them, the biblical language,
you're not only called the sons of God,
you're called gods yourself, and that does not
make you the almighty one. Because God called
you in the Old Testament, the Psalms, he
called the judges of the Jews gods. But
that doesn't mean people now started saying they're
blaspheming.
They are called god God by God himself.
Then he said, I only said I'm Ben
Elyon, son of God.
I didn't say I am God. I said
I'm the son of God. So if he
was trying to claim divinity and if it
was the trinity was true,
this response would make zero sense Mhmm. That
Jesus gave. So I would say, okay, we
love this verse that you brought because it's
evidence against
you. This,
John 10 with the context,
30 and the context before and after till
34 or 35 is evidence against Christianity. And
son of God again Yes. Stressing Absolutely. This
is not literal son. Absolutely. Absolutely. So this
is where many Christians, they Deviate. They see
this in the Bible as the Son of
God, Son of God. But if you go
deep into the land, the Jews didn't understand
it like that. For me, it's really funny
because, like, let's assume if I was, like,
upon, like, Christianity or something,
and I'm trying to make sense of the
concept of God.
There's a trinity.
Jesus is God, but he's the son of
God. So Jesus is the son of himself.
I'm just trying to make sense of that.
How can you be the son of yourself?
How can you be giving birth to your
own self?
So that's why when you meet Christians and
ask them, what is Jesus? Many of them
say the son of God. You say, is
he God? They say, no, he's the son
of God. But do you believe in the
Trinity? Yes. And then you have to explain
to them if you believe in the Trinity,
that means you believe Jesus is the divine.
Because they themselves naturally, their fitra, their innate
disposition that is given by God, every human
being has upon,
which is to believe in one God.
It leads them to this that that Jesus
is not God.
And that's why when they did the survey,
I believe in America. I wanna see majority
overwhelming majority of Christians don't believe Jesus is
God. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Over off around 50%.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because their innate disposition
is that they think a son of God
is different than God. Mhmm. And and they
think you're more of a father son relationship.
And in the mind of most Christians, they're
separate. So this idea of the trinity in
reality,
overwhelming majority of Christians don't understand and don't
believe. Everyone believes whatever he thinks,
the Trinity means. So let's close it up
here. We invite Michael Mhmm. Francine to come
on the program. Come sit, with us, talk
with us. If you're sincere, if you really
wanna know about Islam, we're here to help
and then make an educated decision. So how
would you, in a nutshell, before we conclude,
what is it? Because people think, okay, Islam
came with Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him,
it's a new religion,
Islam came, Christianity was there before,
how would you go ahead and make sense
of it? Like starting from the first man
Adam,
Jesus practiced Islam, he was a Muslim, people
were like, what are you talking about? You're
lying.
How how would you how would you connect
this to see Islam is the original natural
way that started with the first man Adam?
Subhanallah.
We'd first say, what is the definition of
the word Islam? Yeah. Very briefly. Islam is
coming from the word aslamah in the Arabic
language which means to submit.
Muslim, if you translate it literally means submitter.
Islam means submission.
So if someone walks around and says I'm
a submitter,
I'm a submitter, that means he's saying I'm
a Muslim. It's the same thing, but we're
just translating to you the words so you
can understand this meaning.
So submitting to to what or submitting to
who submitting to the one true God, the
God of Abraham.
Abraham did not believe in a trinity.
Abraham did not preach a trinity.
Noah did not preach a trinity. They did
not believe in a trinity. They did not
talk they spoke about 1 God alone, worthy
of worship without no partners. That God, submission
to that God, that God of Abraham is
what it means to be a Muslim which
makes all of the prophets of God Muslim
based on that, that they submitted. But they
come with different shari'as. Sharias means a legislation
for the people in the dealings. The beliefs
are the same of all of the messengers.
There is one God where you worship his
angels in hellfire. All of these are the
same with all of the messengers. So the
theology, if you wanna call it, is the
same, but the practicality
of the things to do with the society
can change based on the needs of the
people and that is from the wisdom of
God. And based on that, we say that
they were Muslims. But the Quran says something,
important. Chapter 3 of the Quran, if you
wanna go over 60, 63,
64, etcetera. Allah says,
people of the and come to a common
term between us and you. That we worship
none other than Allah alone. We don't associate
with him anyone.
So this is the message that we're calling
Christians to. Then in the next verses Allah
says
that Abraham
was not a Jew or a Christian.
Now the question is, Allah Azzawajal
is asking a question in these verses.
How can Abraham or how can you say
Abraham was a Jew or a Christian when
there was no Torah or Injil except after
him? There's no Torah or gospel or anything
to do that except after Abraham. So Abraham
could not have been
Christian.
Abraham could not have been a Jew. So
if Abraham could not have been a Christian
or a Jew, because a lot of people
don't know history, Jew, you wanna say from
Judaism, Judaism, Judah,
who was from,
Jacob, who was from Isaac, who's from Abraham.
So it's way later if you wanna take
it from Judah, or you wanna take Moses
who was also way later after Abraham.
Either way, he could not have been a
Jew. And he could not have been a
Christian for sure, but he's even way later
on. So Abraham here could not have been
Jew or Christian. Do you ask every person,
did Abraham submit to God when God told
him take your son to,
slaughter him? Did he did he submit to
God? Yeah. Could you submit to God more
than this, your own son?
Your only son that you got when you're
very old.
And God is saying to you,
sacrifice him. That time he only had Ishmael.
He didn't have Isaac. One son under old
age. God said sacrifice him. This is the
ultimate way of submission.
And that's why we say Abraham was a
Muslim. Abraham circumcision, we find it from Abraham
how to pray these things that we're doing
as Muslims. Because a lot of people say
this is Judaism. No, it's not.
It's teachings of Abraham and Abraham was not
a Jew. So Allah says
Abraham was not a Jew or a Christian,
but he was a true monotheist.
And he was from the Muslims. He was
from those who submitted their will to Allah
Now we're asking for evidence. Bring us evidence.
Could Jesus have ever been Christian? Impossible. Could
Jesus have ever been a Jew? Impossible. Could
he have been a Muslim with the definition
that Muslims have? Yes. Did he, do the
things that Muslims do? He did. And based
on that we say, this is the teachings
of Islam.
Be upon the same way for Abraham because
we all agree.
We all must and the Christians and the
Jews agree on Abraham and we say we
believe in him. This is our invitations to
the Christians and the Jews to be upon
the same millah, the same belief that Abraham
was upon. And I mean, this is just
another interesting thing that when you read the
Bible and you see him on the, Sermon
on the Mount and he's wearing the white
thobe almost, that's what you're wearing, you would
resemble Jesus more than they have the resemblance
of people in churches. True. True. Because I'm
from the Middle East. Isn't it? And I
always mention this this example to the people
is like, imagine seeing a man with a
beard,
from the Middle East falling on his face,
like Matthew 2639
says, and saying Allah because Jesus spoke Aramaic.
So he said Allah.
And, his mother is covered and he says
to you I fast and he says to
you I'm circumcised.
What religion would you say he is? A
lot of people say Jewish. No, it's not
Jewish because Jews do not, have the same
covering all the time. Some of them have
some positions. 1 some cover somewhere,
we call it the hair, the extensions, and
these have things that say we're covering the
head of anything.
And then you have saying Allah. You have
the Jews saying Allah.
That's how he called God. Allah. Yes. Yes.
Jesus. Yes. This is what Jesus said. I'm
prostrating on the floor when you pray the
way we do. Yes. Yes. This is not
something the Jewish people do, so don't tell
me this is Judaism.
So if you see someone doing that you'll
say it's a Muslim
but this is literally
what Jesus did
from the Christian scripture.
Well, no. As I give you references, it's
not from the Muslim scriptures, it's from the
Christian script. Go to any church, marriage is
covered.
Jesus is a picture with a beard. You
see Jesus falling and prostrating praying as it
is in Matthew 2639.
All of these things,
circumcision, all of these things. You see that
the Bible is showing that this was the
identity of Jesus. And my question is, is
this the identity of you, the Christian today?
Is this how you, behave? Is this how
you pray? Is this how you dress on
your women dresses?
So if you wanna say, oh, oh, yeah.
Okay. We'll follow Jesus. Where is your following
of Jesus? Is it the Muslims that are
following Jesus? Or is it the Christians that
are following him? Him? This is the question
that we'll put forward. Last thing, usually you
start bringing these truths and it connects with,
like you were saying, the, fitra, the innate
disposition. It makes sense. Worship 1 and only
1 God. Absolute pure monotheism.
Mhmm. Being morally upright, but then you get
a a machine gun of, attacks. Islam
is about terrorism,
and Islam oppresses women, and the list goes
on Yes. Of all of these, you know,
silly Misconceptions. Misconceptions. And,
in in a nutshell, you know, what would
you say to, Michael's
the former mafia boss and who's probably you
don't know anything about Islam but he's been
programmed to look at it negatively because of
all the misconceptions that have been pushed out
by the hate industry. Absolutely. We will
say that 2 simple things. 1st is in
order for you to be sincere, you need
to investigate claims made about any position. Right?
Because the default position is your enemies, you'll
mischaracterize them, you'll misrepresent them. If you're in
a mafia, you probably know how you deal
with other enemies. Right? So you probably you
would probably have a a lot of experience
when it comes to that. Right? So you
will say is you misrepresent your enemies. So
in order for you to know the truthfulness
of someone is that you need to to
do some
investigation. And you're welcome to watch brother Eddie's
videos, the videos that we do, the videos
that brothers do clarifying any of these things.
Multiple videos on women, multiple videos on terror,
all of these things. Multiple podcasts has been
done on these issues. You're welcome to investigate
and look that, this is not accurate in
any way, shape, or form.
And this is the message that we give.
Do an some investigation.
Look actually through this and sit down and
talk with the Muslim.
The Muslim. We extend an open invitation
to anyone
to come, sit down,
investigate, listen, and I'll make a challenge now.
Is whatever you're going to bring and say
it's a criticism of Islam,
I'll find you more severe in Christianity.
Here. We're putting this as as a statement
to do these people if you wanna come
and sit down and bring me. You want
to talk about women. I would recommend you
read first Timothy what Paul says about about
women, where he says the woman should be
silent, it should not speak because the man
came first, and the woman came late the
woman the woman came later
and the the pain of pregnancy is because
of, Eve dead. And the woman, if she
doesn't cover her head in first Corinthians chapter
11 verse 7, she'll be shaved, 6 and
7. And I I'm gonna give you these
things. And the woman cannot get divorced in
Islam. The woman can be divorced. If you
want to talk about women, we can talk
about women. If you want to talk about
violence and this and that, we can talk
about verses. You go to 1st Samuel 15
verse 3 and
how, infants are slaughtered,
by God's command, not just people's command. God's
command in which you will not find. Who's
supposed to be Jesus? Yes. In this case,
the Trinity including Jesus. Right? Because a lot
of people wanna throw out their old testament
under the bus, but you can't because it's
still the same God. And you say we're
not gonna you're not gonna find anything similar
in Islam. That's why I say whatever criticism
you would try to use and twist, we
can find it to you in
previous, but that's not our job. We're not
trying to do that because we as you
saw in our discussion, we're not trying to
do this. We are trying to clarify the
truth to the people,
and bring them closer to that which God
wants from you because in the end, Jesus
is our prophet and messenger. Moses is our
prophet and messenger. We believe in all the
prophets and messenger. God. If we don't, we
cannot be Muslims. If I don't believe in
Jesus, I'm not a Muslim. It's an article
of faith. If I don't believe in Moses,
I'm not a Muslim. So we're not trying
here to make a competition. In fact, the
prophet explicitly
forbid us from making the comparison in a
belittling way between the prophets and the messengers.
Yeah. So we welcome everyone insha'Allah into the
fold of Islam. Just don't throw stones from
a glass house. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Be respectful.
Be sincere.
Let's sit and have a dialogue. Let's talk.
Michael, come come.
Let's meet up and, this is, Muhammad Ali
from the Muslim Lantern.
Yes.
My pleasure. Pleasure, being here. May Allah bless
you all. You too, brother. Thank you for
being with us. And thank you guys for
tuning in. And if you wanna go ahead
and see for yourself, you wanna read the
book that makes these claims
that talks about Jesus, his blessed mother Mary,
and many of the things that we're talking
about, paradise, the hellfire, the explicit
descriptions of the hellfire, and the glad tidings
of paradise for those who worship god almighty
alone, the creator of Allah, who do good
deeds, who are upon righteousness, the forgiveness of
God, the mercy of God. All these things
are laid out, the proofs and evidences, the
signs in the Quran. Go to the deanshow.com.
We'll get you the Quran for free, and
we'll see you next time. Until then, peace
be with you.
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