Shadee Elmasry – The Etiquettes of Companionship & The Virtues of Seclusion
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The conversation is difficult to follow and the topic of the conversation is unclear. The speakers repeat the same phrases multiple times.
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Hey, we're
we're here talking about the latest class that's been out,
which is virtues of seclusions. the virtues of seclusion, and the
adequate of companionship because I've mentioned earlier that I'm
not really a big believer or a fan of the idea of total seclusion,
unless someone's going into retirement.
If someone's going into retirement and just finished all their duties
and obligations to the world, that's one thing. But if someone
isn't, then at that point,
you know, it's it. Besides that it's not possible. And it's not
something that we do in our culture in our society and in
America, and Muslims in the West in general. And I don't even think
it's fully possible to do a full on seclusion.
In any event, what we're doing here is what I did is I combined
it with virtual seclusion and etiquettes of companionship, and I
think etiquettes of companionship is a very important subject,
because when we're not doing seclusion, we're being with
people. And if you're not going to be with people, or if you're going
to be with people, you might as well have some kind of Beloved's
or some kind of basis for being with people. So how that should
be. Now the first thing that this is a book a man was shot on, he
talks about is, the first feature is if you're gonna go in with
arrogance, you all your companionship is going to be
vaulted, it's going to be
it's going to come back to haunt you, if you go in to, to being
with people with any type of attitude. And I've learned this,
I'm the first persons who have learned this and have made these
mistakes, and go in with an attitude and try to
you know,
get your point across in a way that that's, that could be
hurtful, or is not considerate, it becomes a problem. So the second
thing is
that, in place of this attitude is got to be the drama and mercy. And
the first mercy on people is having mercy on them by staying
away from them. If you can't hurt if you can't stop hurting them. If
you keep hurting people, then you might as well stay away from them.
Right. So what do you meme shot on? He says it's from the
etiquette among
advocates of companionship to show mercy on the Muslims. The Prophet
peace be upon him said the Muslim is the one who other Muslims are
safe from his hands and from his tongue. So if we got a track
record, that we keep hurting people, that we have a track
record of hurting people, either we do one of two things, we get
used to just admitting that we're wrong. It's very important in
softball companionship, to just admit that you're wrong, we'll
admit that you have made mistakes and compensate, alright, make up
for it, start changing your ways. Okay? If you're not able to do
that, then just stay away from people. In that case, your
seclusion is not for yourself, to improve, but it's for yourself to
stop harming people. Okay. And the Prophet peace be upon him
businesses Hadith saying, and Muslim woman said him and so many,
he said, and he said, the Muslim is someone who others are safe
from their hands and from their tongues. And I've mentioned it on
the podcast, which we just released, that it should be all of
our goals. And it's definitely one of my goals to reach the point
where, as I'm going to Bumba said, the West African
person scholar, shampoo put up the resistance to the French without
really doing much she put up a resistance to the French by
gathering all the people around him. And he said it would set
about him even that he never disobeyed his God and he never
offended his Lord's creation. Okay, and Allah knows best how
many people that I've offended and and all of us, I guess, are
somewhat guilty of that. But we have to try to push back and none
of our Islam is any good. If it's not beautiful.
And this is something we have to realize if we've ever been harsh,
and anytime that you're fighting against something that's wrong,
and all this reform and liberal movements that are out there. I
mean, not only are they wrong, they're pushing people off the
cliff out of Islam. But the thing is, we got our foot in the door. I
think there are a lot of people now listening. The question is now
we have to make our presentation beautiful. And we have to take
into consideration the concept of your words might be true. Now
removed from them. What is offensive? That's the point that
we're at right now. Aren't the words might be true. The arguments
are all true. Okay, they're sound arguments. They're all correct. No
one's going to argue on the issue of the actual points. No one's
gonna go there. But the question is now is it have we removed from
it what could be offensive? And have we added to it what's
called hosting have been hosted done is having a good opinion of
people that we people out there are that are that we're arguing
against their arguments that we're argument arguing against.
Oftentimes we have to realize that people do wrong without
necessarily the explicit expressed intent to do wrong, they're doing
wrong because of other issues. And one of the best statements that I,
I've heard is that somewhat Someone once said, So and so he's
not bad, but she got him, right. He's not bad, but she thought I
was fooling him. Okay. And this is a statement that I heard from
someone that I felt was, was extremely wise, and it was a good
way to have a massage for people. And when you see people doing
wrong to take that approach, because from that approach, you
could actually have some mercy towards them, some kindness to
them, some good opinion about them. But when you're believing
that the person himself is evil, the person himself is out to get
everyone, the person himself is the problem, then you're never
going to be in a situation to bring any benefit. You're just
going to be full of hate full of anger, etc. And we want to be we
want to move away, move away from that. He says, You're the divine,
that compassionate, okay, is merciful to those who show mercy.
And when we look at these matters, anytime that a person is okay,
anytime someone that a person is harsh with others, he should
expect it, how should he and why should he expect any mercy to
come? Come to him. And oftentimes, you see these people that are
extremely dry on the inside, and miserable on the inside. And
that's the result. That's the punishment of being harsh. So even
if we're speaking the truth, we have to look at the casing, we
have to see if this casing is would the Prophet peace be upon
him, have be pleased, be happy that this is his ambassador and
His representative. Remember, he's Nabil Rama. And that doesn't mean
that there weren't Sahaba that, as we said in the podcast, have had
the brass knuckles on Okay, there were Sahaba with the gloves off
that existed. Okay, they existed in the province, I sort of knew
that there's a wisdom behind these people behind that approach
towards things saying that without a father say no, I've been hooked
up Seneca been worried. And probably tomorrow said same that
kind of a when he doesn't go out his sword is never in his case,
his sword is always out. Alright, someone's always going to pay a
price when saying the fellas been relieved is up. There's a wisdom
for the existence of that. But our question is, do we want to get our
message across? Or do we simply want to get our anger out? Or do
we simply need to? Are we striving to hurt the people who we think
and we imagined are harming us or harming Islam? And that's the
question we have to always go back to. And if we want to have any
beauty in our message, then we have to always imagine and
recognize as right a Wilson has to say here. Some people aren't
malicious. They're just fools, right? They're just foolish, and
don't discount the stupidity of people. Which is not to make fun,
but really don't discount that some people are merely ignorant
and foolish, right? And sometimes it's stupid. Okay, and it happens.
So the issue is, again, the casing of our data. It's not enough. Is
it enough to be sincere? No, you have to be on the sunnah to you
have to be accurate. You can't just sincerely do something, you
have to be accurate. Of course, your action has to be in line with
the Sunnah of the Prophet peace be upon him. The next question is,
when you're sincere, and you're on the Sunnah, I'm telling you, it is
not enough. Okay? And I'll be the first person to say I'm the first
person guilty of it. It's not enough to be sincere and to be
correct, okay. You also have to be have SN in your message, you have
to have guests in, in your attitude in whatever you're doing.
And that it said that beauty is only going to be fulfilled when
you put when you pour a lot of hosting in love with the people
hosted them and not and here's another thing, try as best as
possible to the outside of power situations. Because once you have
power in an organization, in any situation, honestly, Your beauty
is gonna go away. The reason is you have to you have to guard your
power, you have to protect your power, right? You have to remove
people who are causing trouble. You have to do things that are
really difficult, right? You have to do things that are extremely
hard. Say no, I'm going to put up his his forte. His expertise was
not to be the great ambassador, like say document's was saying Abu
Bakar acidic, what was he? He was the dawn of the OMA. He was in
charge. And what he had to do was he had to make put down some
serious policies. And none of his governors, very few of his
governors really enjoyed being a governor for all over Canada.
Because if you were his governor, okay when they're sitting on what
was the was in charge, and you were his governor, you weren't
having a nice
cushy life.
But that's what worked, right? So if you're going to be in power,
it's very hard to be in power and to be beautiful at the same time
or to have SN and to be a an ambassador for a cause at the same
time, because once you're in power, you're going to have to
remove people set rules. And the best way to do that the only real
way to do it is the way that they normally did it with extremely
strict. Okay. He cut down on a lot of indulgences or indulgence in
terms of wealth by his governors inside the city of Medina. He
didn't allow indulgence. He didn't allow high rise towers anyone to
build anything that was higher than the highest building at the
time of the Prophet peace be upon him. Okay. He didn't allow any of
the new foods in Medina,
the new foods that were that were discovered that were being sold in
Persia, in Egypt, in Iraq and these newly conquered territories
to be sold in Medina. All right, he didn't allow that. Because he
said, this is we're just 10 years from the death of the messenger
sallallahu alayhi wa salam. And now he started noting, we're
eating all these oily foods, all these spices, the meal now instead
of just eating a little meal, a normal meal, it's now becoming
like a feast, and he disallowed this he knew that corruption
started. Corruption starts with the stomach, and Ivanova doon
repeated that centuries later that corruption starts with the
stomach, alright, corruption occurs by excessive eating by
becoming picky about food by having too many choices. He just
allowed this right wealth. When it came about saving on mobile hot
dogs. This allowed for people to own more than four homes and he
made a PS he said you're only going to have four wives maximum.
So you can't have more than four homes, that people were having
homes and summer homes and some and homes outside the city and
home inside the city, etc. He disallowed all that only for the
city of Medina. So to rule if you want to rule you might as well
rule like say nama ruled with really strict rules. But you have
to realize when you're going to do that, you're not going to be the
ambassador that you need to be okay, if you want an ambassador,
who was the number one Ambassador used by said no, I'm not saying
Abu Bakar and the prophets of Allah 2007 It was implemented by
Fenn. And what was said and Ottomans approach extremely
lenient personality, sent off members. FM was an extremely
merciful and lenient personality, okay. And he was someone who
people took advantage of, and you look at when he ruled, all the
Omega took advantage of him. And they took advantage of him so
much, that really it led to the ruin, he will lead to the ruin of
the whole situation, the Benny omega that took advantage of the
kindness of Satan off men have no offense, but he was the best
ambassador. And the prophets I sent him said, If I had another
daughter, I would have married him, her to have men and so on. If
he had more and more daughters, he would have made them send off men
because he was the most lenient, kind, best person to be around.
And when we're talking about our situation, now, we're not ruling,
we have to realize that we're not saying all about it, but
we're ambassadors. And if we're going to be ambassadors of the
Prophet peace be upon the messages for all those who have latched on
to this movement latched on to this. In the beginning, it felt
like a rebellion, like two, three years ago that you had leaders not
talking about the main issues, you had stuff going on. That was no
one was addressing certain issues, and things were passing, and harms
were coming into the community and it felt like, like no one was
saying anything about it. So what began as a seemingly were like a
rebellion that a lot of people have latched on, if we're going to
actually make this thing, a serious reality and Muslim life in
the West, in America in our area, we have to look at the casing, and
the presentation has got to start to be polished. And really this is
a message for myself before anyone else. Let's take a look at what
people are saying here. Right a Wilson one of my takeaways from
the hookah last Friday is that isolating oneself from the OMA
isn't advisable she's 100% Correct. To isolate from the OMA
isn't advisable if anyone feels that they could survive without
anyone really that only happens when you have to when you have no
choice.
You become like a lone sheep vulnerable to attack 100% agree
you become vulnerable to attack and when we say the Ummah
you select the gathering that works for you. You select the
masjid that works for you, but you have to be plugged into something
you don't have to be plugged into everything. Right? But you're
plugged in to something right. She's right about that. So at what
point does one give up oneself their ability to interact with
people without offending them and decide that isolation is better?
And the answer to your question is you select the companionship that
you want you select the group of the OMA within the OMA vecher okay
with that you're fine with because I'm going to say when we when we
talk about being about
encasing
Our message encasing our presentation. Okay, polishing our
presentation, we are not for an instant, not for a moment, not for
an iota of time, okay, we're
going to give up an inch of our principles, we're not going to
give up an inch of it. And the best approach in Islam is the
conservative approach. It's what's going to last. It's what's lasted.
It's reached us until now. So therefore it has some, I mean, the
fact that it's reached us until now indicates its power. Okay, the
way of the Eman Ottawa, which is a way that has been checked and
double checked and triple checked, that's the only way that we're
gonna go. And if we start going any other way, we put a, we put
ourselves at risk. So we're not gonna give an inch away. But at
the same time, we have to be with the gym and be kind with them. And
be careful, be considerate of our words when we're dealing with
them. And the way to do this is to be highly selective of the people,
the company that you keep, which jamaa that you're going to keep,
and honestly when as soon as I see any type of secularism coming from
a gym, or any type of whatever thing that I'm going to disagree
with either now or in the long run, I just step away, I tried to
have a hospital done, and I rectified the wrong, it not
directly, right, not necessarily face to face, so that I don't have
one, I have a confrontation. But I could come on a stream here, I
could go on the the member, and you can do it in a general way,
you have to forbid wrong, but there's a way to forbid wrong and
pick an unnecessary fight. And a lot of groups. A lot of people
pick an unnecessary fight, right, a fight where we just like it, you
could have achieved the same thing without picking a fight. And I get
that there are some moments, okay, there are some points in time
where you actually need to get attention. And I recognize that
where you where no one's looking at an issue and you're talking and
no one's paying attention, there is a moment, right where you need
to get attention. But once you've got the attention, at the moment
that you've got the attention, now you have to pivot, right. And this
is not changing in a sense of hypocrisy, but you have to pivot
pivot from the aspect that as the province is said, liquidity
meccanica for every situation, every circumstance, there's a way
to talk, right? When you need to get people's attention. There's a
way to talk, once you've got people's attention, there's a
different way to talk. If you're looking for a short term goal,
there's an approach, right? You can be
one way when you're going for a short, when you go for a long term
goal, you need to be more neutral, you need to be more together
oriented, group oriented. If you want to go long, you have to go
together. Okay. So again, we're not saying here, we're just going
to join everything. Everything's Fuzzy Wuzzy. I'm not into that
everyone knows I'm not into that at all. Never be into that.
Because principle is the main thing. And personally speaking, I
like to sleep at night. And if you can't sleep at night, when you
know that you believe one thing, but you just said the opposite.
Okay? You believe one thing, but the opposite is happening in real
life. How can you sleep? How could you sleep with yourself? Okay, so
we're not going to leave off with any of those principles. So at the
same time, we're going to be with the agenda that we feel we're
comfortable with. What is the name of the book, the name of the book
is etiquettes of companionship by Imam is SHA Ronnie, this is the
book. And this is the first half of what we talked about in the
virtues of seclusion clash which is now up at Safina dash
online.teachable.com. Okay,
I should have said is this about Muslim life in America can people
of Pakistan where everyone is Muslim, and we are in power, take
advice from this? I definitely think I'd take advice from this
because the common person in any Muslim country right now is
surrounded by secular forces, and oftentimes surrounded by secular
family, and oftentimes is mocks in his own home, okay. And in their
own family, and everyone knows family members from different
countries where
the the be praying is mocked. Alright, showing up with a beard
is mocked. So you're going to be stepping away from those groups
and guard yourself from these groups. I'm telling you any
personality that's going to secularize your thought that's
going to weaken your passion for a better for Dean, and everything's
got to have passion. We got to have passion. If there's no
passion, it's dead. What is a business? What is it right? If
you're new in this if there's no passion for Dean, and no passion
and love for the issue, then stop doing it. I have trouble doing
anything that I really don't love. Okay, we'll have cola saying
watching from Albania Allahu Akbar, Shola.
What are the Bible says sometimes no matter how polite you are,
people are still sensitive and get offended. That's true. But you
have to look at your you have to look at the majority. And you have
to look at your colleagues and your
yours. If your colleagues and your peers are, you're taking their
advice, you're listening to them, then most likely, you're gonna get
the truth. So a lot of times it's true, they're going to be offended
and my my Polit politically speaking, I'll never support
certain things that are contradictory, directly
contradictory to the sharp end, we're just not going to support
them. And those people are going to constantly be offended. So
well, there's nothing you can do about that as long as you wouldn't
ever be embarrassed. Definitely 10 years down the line, showing
people your statement and realizing that you really put in
an effort to remove anything that is can cause an unnecessary fight
that will cause unnecessary offense towards people if people
are going to be offended by the truth. That's a different story.
And if the prophet peace be upon him was the was the most polite,
most beautiful, best presentation that you're gonna find? And they
still were offended? What did Allah say? The Prophet ALLAH
SubhanA wa Tada consoled the messenger peace be upon him. He
said, they are upset with you. They have an issue with Allah as
soon as I let it go was the Imam shift Sarani mainly quotes our
little house which was his his teachers ship. He says you must be
merciful to Muslims, if you wish to be shown mercy that you bear
their sorrows is from being merciful to them. And a lot of
people when they see some of our brothers and sisters sort of
really walking boldly into COFA by the idea that they're ingesting
and digesting and laughing at okay, and oftentimes they mock and
laugh at matters of Dean and you see this your natural instinct and
reaction is to go into a rage is to become the anti Satan of Musa
de Sena. He's Kadeem, Allah, Allah chosen ALLAH SubhanA wa Tada said
he looked at the earth to see who will up turn the overturn the
frown, and he found no heart more humble than the heart of Moses
said no Musa has mentioned the Quran over 36 times, say Musa
alayhis salam is the profit mentioned by name more than any
other profit on Amis
on the Vienna MBA, Jimmy an assault which is no one is going
to have a rank of Prophet Musa they said what did he do when he
went back down the mountain and saw them worshipping the golden
calf? After the Anwar, right. For affordability can be Russia he
he took his brother heroines Beardy through the tablets broke
the tablets. Okay, took the beard. I looked at what after the
bureaucracy educate your children who in a college dorm letter could
be like it will be ROTC right in the country to intercooler for
ROTC, the bane of any sorority. He said he took the beard of Satan
the heroine and Jeff slammed him against the wall. What how long a
profit you're taking the beard of a profit and slamming him up
against the wall and yelling at him and you're taking the the
tablets that Allah just himself just etched in the mat his message
to the bene so I eat and you're throwing them and breaking them
across the mountain. Right? This is the rage that said the Musa
Kate went into but why he went into this rage and he threw the
tablets and he grabbed the beard of his of another prophet. Okay?
And Allah azza wa jal never gave him a moment of a tab. Not a word
was said to Musa de Sena that Why did you do this?
Because he was angry for the right reason. He was angry because he
saw his people who just saw the miracle of Allah open the Red Sea
a month ago. And now 40 days later, they travelled a little
bit, they rested a little bit, he went up the mountain for 40 days,
he came back down, they're worshipping a false god. Not even
two months have passed by.
So his rage and his anger had a reason. There was a reason for his
rage. And as I have an article on this in Muslim matters, that Moses
his anger is famous. It's known that Allah never took him to
account for it because he was angry for the right reason. Good.
Now, this is the point that we talked about, we were saying that
sometimes anger has is valid, it has a reason, and it's acceptable.
But what we're saying and at the same time, say no Musa is one of
our examples that Allah says in the Quran, Allah, Allah Dena Had
Allah Febi, who doubted it, but we also have a Prophet sallallahu
alayhi wa sallam who's the greatest example. He's the
greatest example. And he's the one that we should be thinking of,
when we're presenting this data to others when we're presenting this
deal to others. Is this going to please the Prophet peace be Vaughn
and what I've said earlier, it's not enough to be sincere. It's not
enough to be correct. Your presentation has to be beautiful.
If you're going to talk about the Sonos prophets, I said, that's
what he deserves. Because the messengers of Allah, why do you
sell them deserves a better effort? He does
deserves an effort in which we've
taken consideration, we fought about the issue of how is our
message being presented, okay. And if we've made mistakes in the
past, I'm number one in that, then we make up for it in the future,
we're not going to pout and cry or defend ourselves and try to be
better, we're going to fix it. Suja Farukh says, I recall there
may be a hadith that the messenger SallAllahu sallam said, A time
will come
believe it will sleep at night and become a disbeliever in the
morning scary stuff. Do you think we are approaching these times?
Believe it or not, I do believe we're approaching these times. And
I do believe that some of us have actually seen it. And the
disbelief that is in this hadith is both the disbelief that is
direct open air to that leaving Islam openly. And speaking of the
ex Muslims, which is funny, because they, they never stopped
being ex Muslims, like I'm waiting for them to be something else.
Right. And they never stop obsessing with the issue of Islam.
The funny thing about ex Muslims is they keep hanging around Muslim
circles trying to bother us. And I got one of them. And I banned him
from the page. He is famous actually, as an ex Muslim, that he
goes and he tries to bother you. And then he puts it up on his
website, and hamdulillah some of the brothers warned me about him,
so I just banned them right away. But it's funny that ex Muslims
never stopped being ex Muslims, like you can be ex Muslim, but
then are going to be something else like what are you going to be
a Democrat, a Christian, an atheist of, you know, follower of
Dawkins, you know, be something else, but they never stopped being
ex Muslims, and they unify and they gather and they have these
meetings, as ex Muslims, it's almost like, aren't you going to
be something else like move on already. So in any event, that's
ex Muslim, but the other type of cover is the open contradiction of
Allah's book is covered below. And there is no two Muslims that are
going to disagree that the open contradiction of Allah's book is
covered.
So when you say that you're going to support and validate, and aid
and believe in something that Allah is telling you is simple, is
we should disbelieve in, we should be pushing against that, in a
sense, is an open call for a builder as it's comfortable. Now,
there's nothing else to call it. And people will take up a cause,
you know, at a campus or at a high school, or what have you, they'll
take up a cause. And they'll openly support it. And when they
do, so, they're contradicting God's book, right. And when you do
that, and there are certain things that are done ot that doesn't need
an explanation. It's known in religion is known to Muslims, Jews
and Christians. And when they do that
their deeds aren't going to be accepted, they won't be accepted
inside of a lawn. So they've rectified that belief. And that's
something that we're riding against. And I'm telling you, we
need to vaccinate all of us need to be vaccinated and to pass on
the vaccines. And it's not enough that certain things are not for
scholars that already yet are not just for scholars, every common
Muslim has the right has the obligation to command right and
forbid wrong when it comes to or to to clarify the issue when it
comes to Bodia to deen and what I put on Muslim matters the other
day, the 14 points is from there all delorey of the deen and I'm
going to be putting little one to two page essays on these issues.
Okay, so that you as a common Muslim out there, you're not maybe
don't know the Hadith don't know how to cite verses don't know how
to how to put the argument together. It's going to take you
60 seconds to figure this out to see it. It's so simple. It's so
easy, and you need to pass it on you as a common Muslim. It's,
it's, it's a duty upon us if we have any care, okay? Even if
you're not a professional, you're not doing Tao full time. You're
not studying full time you're not you haven't studied in the past,
but certain things don't require studying the idea of obey God and
obey His prophet that God is the one that Allah azza wa jal can
determine to us what's right and what's wrong. The basic
reputations of secularism does not require scholarship. It doesn't
require scholarship, but I'm putting it in a little essay that
hopefully be published soon. Okay, that you can all see download
Holika leaders, Sunday school leaders, Islamic school, middle
school, high school, I mean, I teach the reputation of
secularism, I teach that to little kids, right? Very simply, I say
who made us Allah subhanaw taala. If you make something who gives
the instructions on how to use it? Right? If you have a frigerator,
if you have a computer who gives the instructions? Anyone? Or the
or the one who made it? Well, they all get it. They all get a toy,
and you have instructions? Well, you're only going to get the
instructions from here. If your dad says No, put the battery this
way. The kid says no, the instruction says the other way.
Who's right? The instructions, right? The instructions the one
who makes the item has the right to give the instructions.
Likewise, do we believe Allah made us yes or no? Right? And if the
answer is yes, then we also believe that he can tell us what
to do. So what's right and what's wrong is the
Turn by luck, what we do, and what we don't do is determined by God
and His messenger. And any human being that contradicts that we
don't obey them in that, okay? We can be nice to them, you could
deal with them, but we won't obey them in that. Alright, very
simple, very easy refutation against this secularism, because
what's going to happen is people are going to come and no one have
taught them that lesson. They never took their flu shot, they
never took the vaccine, and then they're going to be told that
something is right, that there are human rights, that there are other
rights out there, and they're gonna absorb those as truths, and
then weigh the Quran, and weigh Islam against those
principles that they were taught in a secular environment. Alright,
and once that happens, it's too late in the game.
Alright, so we'll have cola perhaps says What if the religious
leaders and the Muslim community around us are corrupted and do
what the who they're doing with the Kitab abandon a model for Nyan
mocha? Then what should our relationship with this Gemma be?
The relationship with is it is that if you're not in a position
to rectify a situation, and you're in a position actually to be
negatively affected, then we could say what say North man said, say
North man was asked the same question about the rebels, right?
Those who were rebelling against, say a North man, and they had
surrounded his home. And some of the some of the Teviot in the
young
Muslims who had never met the prophet, but they met these Sahaba
they essay northmen off, man, they're doing this and this and
this, but they're also praying, right? And they sort of taken over
the message of the Prophet and they were leading the prayer there
should we pray behind them or not? Say no with man said the prayer is
the best thing that Allah has brought down to the earth. So if
you see those people doing something good, do it with them,
if you see them doing something bad stuff away from them. So if
the that group is doing something good, then keep that tie. If they
start doing something bad, then be different from them. Right? So or
stay away from them when they're doing something bad. And in your
own ability, where you're capable, where you have the right to talk
where you have the right to speak, and guide or to write, then
commend the right and forbid the wrong don't go into someone else's
message that someone else is running and stand up like we had
some guy do
in our masjid and trying to tell us what to do. Okay, and he's
totally having no respect for the gym. Ah, that is that's out of
line. So commanding right and forbidding wrong has rules has
guidelines, and the guideline is you do it, where you have the
right to do it, you don't do it. Okay, where someone else is in
charge someone else's running the thing, okay, unless it is open
sinfulness as this hobby. One time.
One of the Omega princes came in to leeks about to eat and he stood
up to give the hookah first where it's known that it's a sulphurs.
So one of the Sahaba stood up said, Turn around switch it is to
Salah first, not the football first. So unless it's open like
that, otherwise, leave off those groups of spread the good in your
own sphere so that we don't become people of fitna going into
different masajid causing troubles who are everyone remembers those
Neji types, the Wahhabi types that went around all the different
masajid causing trouble, right trying to do revolutions in the
mosque trying to steal followers from those mosques. Right? And
they cause all this trouble and they cause more people to have
hate and anger. They have a greater legacy of hatred and anger
than they have guidance. Okay. And they were saying God Allah Tala su
they were saying God said Prophet said and they were quoting all the
Hadith and everything. But ultimately they cause more grief,
more hardship, more pain on people than everyone else. And this is
again all this we touched upon it of when to be with the people and
when not to in the virtues of seclusion videos. Next thing he
says
you must know that our bearing the sorrows of our fellow Muslims,
does not oppose submitting oneself to the decree of Allah azza wa
jal, unlike what some people think. The servant bears the
sorrow of his fellow and accordance to their having earned
sense for which they are liable to the calamity that has befallen
them, and he acknowledges in accordance to the Divine Cree, for
which the knowledge has come to pass. Thus it is impossible to
repel something like that. So understand, a group of ignorant
chicks are mistaken in this regard, believing they themselves
are submitting to Allah azza wa jal, while they reject anyone they
see bearing the sorrow of his fellows. They say why is so and so
opposing divine decrees and they think that which they follow is
more correct, but they're wrong. What he's saying here is when
people are in a state of sadness, what you don't tell them is stop
being sad. This is Allah's will.
This is what you don't tell them
Because the idea of sadness is not contradictory to the idea of
believing in Divine Will, believing in what Allah has has
decreed that yes, this is a decree. And sometimes it's a
punishment, you do certain things, okay, you're gonna get a reaction,
you eat unhealthy, you can get a heart attack, there's going to be
a reaction. So just because someone's sad about the Nasrullah,
or the fitna that's coming down, does not mean at all in any way,
shape, or form, that they're rejecting the divine decree. And
just because you're doing them, you're consoling them. Okay? When
you console someone, also doesn't mean that you're denying the
divine decree. Right. So this is what he's saying here is sympathy
and empathy for people does not necessarily mean we're denying the
Divine Decree, nor even, and for telling them, you know, that they
were right about what they've done. So people do wrong, they
make mistakes, provided that you're not affirming the wrong,
right or supporting them in the wrong, you're gonna have you it's
acceptable for them to be sad and for you to be to console their
sadness.
Another Hadith says, someone who does not bear the interest of
Muslims is not from among them, someone who cuts off the Muslims
and has no interest in their affairs, any longer the Prophet
peace be upon him, he declares them that they're not one of them,
not one of them in the aspect of receiving God's mercy, receiving
the Mercy of Allah subhanho wa taala.
Not from the aspect that he's a Catholic. So it's not like if I
don't care about what's happening in some country about the Muslims
then, and I'm not reading up on it, and I'm not getting angry.
That doesn't mean that I'm not a Muslim. It just means that when
the book comes out to the entire Ummah, that that person won't have
a share in it, that when the protection comes from the entire
OMA, that person won't have a share in it. When do I made for
the entire OMA, that person will have a share in it. That's the
meaning of that millennia Tenma, the only a modern Muslim in Felisa
minimum, who doesn't care about the affairs of Muslims is not from
among them. We're a people that we don't have the elitism in our
community we might have in the people, but we don't have elitism.
We don't have an idea that I'm not going to those places, those
places are beneath me, because what gathers us are is the
masajid. And what what gathers us in the massage and is something
that has nothing to do with people, which is the Salah, okay,
and the the ultimate unifying factor of the Muslims is the
obligatory prayer in the masajid. So after July in particular, so a
lot will affect you tragedy in Asia, in particular, the Sillas
you're going for Allah azza wa jal, you're not going for people.
So if you refuse to go there's a problem. There are some massages
that you're allowed not to go to. The massages that you're allowed
not to go to are the masajid that were established by groups people
who are upon the Creed dot theta, and listen with Gemma, and these
are the mainly reformist or Mata Zilla, the MATA Zilla, the Shia
and the majestic Anna, any of these people who established the
masjid a person should stay away from it. And most most of the
Creed's the aka and that go straight. They could easily be
placed into one of these three categories, either at design,
which is at the modular or even way better than today's reformers.
They were scholars they were pious. They they had a lot of good
qualities to them, but they were marked as Allah which means that
they've judged revelation with their own reason. Okay. That's
their main flaw which caused them to negate certain attributes of
God so they negated that the kalam of Allah azza wa jal, the Quran
was his speech, they negated that because they made the argument
that wait a second, Arabic is not pre eternal. So if Allah speech is
going to be pre eternal, okay, it's his attribute that existed
forever. The Arabic language did not exist forever. So how was the
Quran Allah speech, so therefore they said, It is Allah speech from
the aspect of ownership, okay, but it's not his attribute. And so
Noah Jamal came in and said, No, you're misunderstanding what
divine speech is. Divine speech. Kolev Allah azza wa jal is his
speech without sound without letters without beginning without
ending without grammar, without language, etc. It's just kind of
Neff See, and that's what existed before it ever went into a no hot
food, okay. And then it came down as the Quran. So they said that's
what's Kalam Allah and whoever says that what's between the binds
of the Quran is not Kalam, Allah is kappa. So they made took fear
of the martyrs Allah from that aspect. But to in today's groups
are the so called progressive s which really are regressive, and
the so called reformers, which are nothing other than deform. So it's
really don't say
progressive or riff reform and progressive, you wrote you should
say is deform and regression. That's what it is it's deform and
regression, and it should constantly be on our mind. And if
there's a snake, if there are snakes in around your house,
aren't you going to make sure that the windows are closed that the
doors are shut, that your eyes are out there for where the snakes
are? Right? And anytime a snake comes out, you want to make sure
that you know that they're
that you get rid of them. All right, same thing with deform and
regression movements, that they're corrupting you and your faith, the
corrupting your afterlife, so you have to keep your eye out. Okay?
And the other two groups are the majeste sama those who are giving
a lot of the refuse to make Tenzin. The tansy have ALLAH
SubhanA which I do, which is to say that he is
not subjected to time place, location, direction, physicality,
this is known it's unsorted to look for loss,
basically,
and implied in SUTA luckless
glow low, the low summit Lemina dual immunity will America local
fauna had none like unto Him? And then lastly, the Shiite groups who
disrespect the Prophet directly. Or sorry, indirectly disrespect
the prophet by disrespecting is Sahaba and his wives. Anyone who
says listen, I respect you, but your wife is something she's,
she's she's *. She's ridiculous stuff Allah what
respect? Is that? Right? Right. I respect you. Yeah, you're a good
Muslim, but your wife, she is like an apostate. Okay, she's a
straight. What kind of respect is that? I respect you. But you know,
those guys that hang around you. They're all like the worst of
people. What kind of respect is that? So anyone who disrespects
say that I shall be low on say, No, I'm not saying that will
buckless a dip? Say no off man said number one IRA. Alright,
anyone who's disrespecting them is in fact disrespecting the Prophet.
And no one should say Listen, he's shame but he doesn't curse the
Sahaba not curse the sahaba. That's not an achievement. You
respect them? Okay, they are the representatives of the Prophet
peace people that he that's his product. What is the product of
the prophets I send them is the students. That's his product.
That's who who produced he's produced say that Isha said Norma,
send Abu Bakar before him. Say no, have men been offended. That is
the handiwork of the Prophet is the Sahaba that's why the prophets
I said him said follow me and my companions after me. Okay. Follow
me and my companions after me. So any disrespect to the prophets of
Allah when he was alone. No one's going to do it directly. They're
going to do it indirectly through the wives and Sahaba of the
messenger sallallahu alayhi wa salam who disrespects them has
disrespected the Prophet when Nabil Ella Bella millennium and
puts him the prophet is more worthy to the believers than their
own selves. So you should be more upset if the prophet is offended
than if you're offended. And you're going to tell me that no
one's going to come and offend your wife and you're not going to
be offended or offend your your best friends and you're not going
to be offended. All right, you're definitely going to be offended,
and said, I Isha. What else does she omit? Um, oh, minimum we need
was legible on Mahato calm All right, your his wives or your
mother's? Right there, the Mothers of the Believers by the word of
the Quran, so someone disrespects your mom, you're not going to be
upset? Right? Someone disrespects your mama calls her all the names
that they call Seda it's about the love of Donna, you're not going to
be upset you better be right. So this this little way out of oh,
they don't curse the Sahaba You better not that's not an
achievement that's a given. That's beyond given. You respect them.
Okay, and you honor them and you say say you didn't have a say in
Abu Bakar say that it shall not be allowed to add on. Okay, so that's
the to show you on which may Allah azza wa jal keep it away from us.
And I don't mind if you have a share a neighbor you have a share
a doctor you have a share a whatever you can have even shade
partner in business, not a problem but don't come and try to make the
religious stuff all one and fuzzy wuzzy it's not going to be it's
not gonna work out.
Okay, keep the religion aside and keep your worldly business one
thing and your religious side another thing
there is an amazing story. Amazing story that's related to say that
an Imam Al Junaidi salak Muhammad Ali Junaid Okay. A salak who was
one of the early scholars he lived. I'm trying to think.
I think before a write up before after saying that the madman would
have been humbled. And
the situation happened. A man came to him
and said the homes, the houses in your district have all been
consumed by a fire in your neighborhood except yours. So he
said 100 and up and then immediately he said a stock Fula
And then he said What is it? He said how could I have been happy?
Right like happy for myself and my own house while all my brothers
homes have been burned down, and it Junaid said, I have been making
us to fall for that. That word and hamdulillah I've been making this
too far for it for 30 years. That's what Juanita said exact.
Could you believe that? Could you believe that? So here he says, say
no, um, I didn't know hooked up. Okay. So you know, I'm gonna fuck
up would not laugh at all, after a calamity had befallen the Muslims
until that calamity had been removed. Honorable Qatar would not
laugh. If there was a calamity that befell someone, he wouldn't
laugh until it was absolved. So if you had authority, Ahmedabad
disease, I'll die and the tsunami, they all practice the same thing.
It's known that even
so I didn't show up. Wouldn't smile wouldn't laugh What a joke
until he had fulfilled his mission of freeing Jerusalem from the
Crusaders.
But I had says, How could I be happy for myself when all the
homes of my friends were burnt out? That's what we that's what he
said some how to love. Right? And how am I supposed to just go be
jovial, be happy when all this calamity is happening? So at least
we can do that when it has to do with people we know. Right? People
we know. And there are certain things that aren't becoming.
There was one time a friend, they had a funeral. And they the
certain person died in the community. Another group that were
close within they had their wedding scheduled, right. They had
their wedding scheduled and you know that these weddings when
they're scheduled. Firstly, you have the invitations, you have a
lot of money put down the hall is rented the vacations from work for
the honeymoon is all you can't just cancel things anymore. So
they did have the wedding. But it was a very somber wedding. Right?
And that's what they did. And they they refuse to just be just as if
nothing happened. And I remember one time, there was a situation
where a really bad thing had happened to some people in the
community. This was way back in the day in Virginia. And it was
going to steam. It was one of the intifadas and some really bad
things were happening and videos were coming out of all these
horrible things that were happening. And
the wedding of Palestinian wedding was taking place. And my landlord
at the time I was living in his basement is a great guy. He went
off and he said, I can't believe we're having this wedding. It's
just not the day. They just had a Palestine March. And he went and
he came back that night. And he told me you won't you're not going
to believe what happened. I said what happened? He said they had
the wedding. It started off somber because just the all the Intifada
stuff was happening. The bombs were raining down kids were being
killed. You know how it is. Whenever Israel goes into mow the
lawn, as they say, you know, cut the grass in Gaza. And he said it
started off, okay. But then they pumped all the music up. And all
these people hit the dance floor started dancing. And he's like,
Wait a second. It's not the this isn't the right place. And he told
his wife, let's go. And they and she was like, How can we go? These
are my cousins, etc. He said, Okay, I'm leaving, right. And he
refused to be in attendance with all this joy, Glee and joy. And
when on the same day, they just had the march. And they just on
all this news was coming out all these kids being killed in Gaza.
And he and these were people from Gaza. He's not like some people
that were from another ethnicity. These were Palestinians. So he's
he went, he took his car and he left his wife called him said pick
us up, you're not going to believe what happened. So he goes, picks
them up. And he said shortly after you left, two girls on the dance
floor kept bumping into one another forget the dancing. That's
a whole nother story in front of the men and everything. They kept
bumping into each other. And they started fighting. Their friends
started fighting and a brawl broke out in the wedding, a brawl
amongst the girls. Like the the girls that were dancing, not
little girls like women that were dancing. Then the guys got
involved and the whole thing, the whole dance floor turned into like
a mosh pit of fights. Right? And he came back and he told me this
and he said Subhanallah I knew it wasn't right. Like he didn't. This
guy was just like a blue collar guy. He's like, in my heart. I
knew it wasn't right. My gut knew that it's not right to be that
gleeful and happy at the same day, the same moment
that these things that calamity has fallen before and the Muslims.
All right, I think let's wrap up here any questions or comments
that people have? We can take
it. All right. Nazma socket, says What's your take on that man
message in which many elements signed? Let me take a look.
I can't even remember what it is. Okay, the recognition of eight
schools of Cydia fiplima that have been the varying schools of
Islamic theology.
Sunni Hanafi Sunni Maliki Sunni Shafi Sunni, humbly, okay, Sunni,
Shia Joffrey Shia as ad is Shia via the Shia Abadi, what is he
saying? forbade declaring an apostate. Okay?
Is that what they're saying? That forbade declaring an apostate
yet forbade declaring as motivated as careful, yes, that's fine, that
we won't call them Kufa, that doesn't mean they're right. That
doesn't mean it's Edison or the math. That doesn't mean that
number one, most of these things don't even have a chain of
transmission of reliability. And people don't even know what a
method is a man have. Okay, a method is the thought of a much
dead, amen, that has come to us by several mutawa chains of
transmission that exist until today. So that there is no doubt
that yes, these are the words of Abu Hanifa. This is the ruling of
Matic, this is the methodology of Chef, right, et cetera. That's
what a myth have is and unfortunately, the humbly method
is dying out. If someone can revive it, it's not going to take
one person you need dozens upon hundreds. So how do we know you
can't just take a manuscript and say, well, witch dead so and so
said, This witch said so and so said that, how do you know who the
scribe was? How do you know if it was written? A men have means that
in which dead men documented his ideas upon
upon all the web of the deen and then it was transmitted to us
generation after generation by hundreds upon 1000s of scholars
who checked and double checked and made sure that's what he said,
Okay, and then weighed it and studied it and transmitted it to
us until so it's a living tradition of thought from which to
head Imam. So we even discount that. Yes, remember God the
theory, he has rulings and he had followers. So if you had a thought
he had rulings.
Who else?
And Latham inside had a met him and Oza I had a meth lab mobbin
Mama will rush it had met him. So many scholars had muda him but
guess what, all of the Ottomans are in agreement. We would not
allow that med hub to manifest today why because we we don't have
their works in a transmission that celled we have their books, yes,
published by publishers. But in act in order to act upon it, to
live by it to believe it, we need more thorough transmission, it
needs to be like a multilateral transmission and the multilateral
transmission of them which to hit Imams is the transmission
transmission of
Abu Hanifa medica Shafi there are hundreds upon 1000s. Okay,
hundreds upon 1000s of scholars in every generation from those Imams
coming down to us bringing us their work so that we can know
that that's exactly what they said. So the transmission is the
question and what these this listing here. And these don't even
have sound transmissions first of all, so this Eman accord is not
saying that these are all acceptable doctrines at all. And
if they're saying that then they're wrong, because there's not
even a discussion. Okay? What they're saying is you do not
declare them as calf and and try to kill them. That's what they're
saying. Right? You don't declare them as COFA that's fine. No one's
saying she had her Kufa, we're saying they're outside of some
ninjavan. Right? We're saying what they're saying is wrong. All
right? What they're putting forth is wrong. Right? And they're and
biddies were saying their bid A's. These groups are bid A's, the the
sheer groups, the validity groups, the IBA the advisory maybe not
hardly exists. The body groups they are multimedia, okay. They're
Muqdadiyah which means that their deeds will not be accepted by
Allah. Okay, let me just speak in theory about not not a person
here, not about people.
The idea of a Biddy if you're outside of Santa ngema, that your
deeds will not be accepted by Allah azza wa jal until you
rectify your beliefs Okay. Until you rectify Allah says not to
America okay.
This is that it's hard for me to quote a middle of a in the off the
top of my head but have correct belief. Okay, or else your Ahmed
your deeds are bought that
your deeds are bolted
surely Ayers Davis Yeah, I don't know. Oh, this is either I don't
know you must have liked my page. So don't like it unlike okay. I'm
sorry. Salam aleikum? Why are Muslim leader Imam talking about
the danger of liberalism, secularism feminism. There are a
main reason people, people are now talking about it. Okay.
People are now
talking about this stuff. And that's why I said that people
weren't listening before they are listening now. They are talking
now. And Daniel's got his got the brass knuckles off. Madman, Luke's
are talking about it. A lot of people that say Yaqeen Institute
is talking about it, most of matters is always been publishing
about it. So try to get into those circles. And that's it's going to
be we're pushing back. The pushback is coming, as there's no
doubt about that.
Sharifa Morgan says, I said I'm gonna come rahmatullah wa
barakatuh. Can a Sunni attend an event of molded, etc, of a Shia
msgid When there is no mention of hating the Sahaba and wives that
are the Allahu Anhu?
An answer to that is what if Mr. Muhammad Salah Barakatuh you
certainly should not attend to any religious events by any of the big
three groups, any of the three che groups, they are the 80s? The
Ismael 80s and the Imam ease which are also known as the fibres, the
southerners and the twelvers. A Sunni should not attend any acts
of worship with any religion or any Shiri group or any bid a
group. You can if it's a social matter, then maybe, right. But if
it is a
religious act, then we don't believe that they're a bad that is
our acceptable their worship is not acceptable. Okay, those who
will make portable ima and forgot the habitat analog. That's the
idea of an accuracy manual Cassadine will may affordable even
for the habitat Armello whoever disbelieves in Eman when when
Allah says Amen, he means all of it. Not some of it all of Amen.
All of the pillars of Aikido are maniac hornbill. Amen, for cut the
habit Armello, okay, whoever rejects Imen, any of it or all of
it. And the proof that when Allah says whoever rejects Amen, that
it's any of it or all of it is this ensuited Bacara whoever
believes disbelieves in one day, it's as if you believe that all
this believes in all of it. Okay? So, forgot the heavy Domino, his
armor are not accepted. And we had a tsunami gemera We don't pray
behind any of the big age groups. And I know that a lot of Western
Muslims, they like to be fuzzy, that we like to be nice, and we
don't like to talk about these things. But I do. And I liked to I
love data. I love knowing what I believe in what I don't. And I
love knowing what to do and what not to do. Right. And I'm telling
you, this is why selfies succeed. You look at selfies, some people
that their facilities are not on the radar at all. But let me tell
you there the work that they've done, they have reached so many
people, and yes, there's a lot of blowback. But a lot of people
leave it. And they've really they've made more people angry and
miserable. All right, that's for different reasons. But one thing
that they have that's good, is they're very clear on what they
believe and what they don't believe. And they have evidence,
all right. And likewise, we're presenting here the evidence and
you can go and look at any of the classical scholars, they will tell
you, the ALMA the a bad debt, the good deeds, the acts of worship,
in the sight of Allah of the bidet is not accepted. That's why we
don't pray behind them. I'm sorry if that offends people, but that's
the truth. I really don't want to offend people. And that's what I'm
talking about the ideas I'm not talking about shady people, right?
I'm not talking about them. And I guarantee you, if one of them
walks up to me, I don't know how to be mean to people to their
face. I don't know how to offend people. I don't want to offend
people. I don't like fighting with people. But when it comes to
Arpita right, when it comes to actual beliefs, right. And and our
Dean we got to be clear, right I'm sorry. I gotta be clear on the
issue and those issues
we don't mix those issues up right so I
anyway, let's move on.
So hey, Elsa, says Santa Monica. Do hobbies fall into the three
categories of mossy suggest that we stay away from if so. What
would you be say about prank buying a layperson who frequently
for those types
only if they outwardly and openly refuse the 10 Zia you don't have
to go searching for their opti that we're not talking to police.
We don't go around searching what people's opinions are that's the
way to do that. We don't do that and what have you is not even the
right name because we'll have is a beautiful thing nobody's okay.
Because that's the promise I send them refuse to make dua for them.
The najis and he said bad things would come out of Nigeria and he
was right. The whole movement of the Nigeria where did it come out
of Nigeria? Okay. najis they do go do Akita police, policing people's
aka and we don't do that. But if an imam openly says and refuses to
make 10 z have Allah azza wa jal from the physicality and body and
refuses to say No, Allah does not have a physical form and a body at
that moment as soon as
He says that from the provider again.
Neither is any Muslim no Muslim would accept that touch seem. This
is called Tenzin.
Say it hasn't Jamel says salam aleikum. I would like to know
about de hokum of perda while watching looking at non Muslims on
TV, news channels, etc. The answer is why they come with sunnah. It's
obligatory to lower the gaze from non Muslim spirit. That's the
answer.
All right, so we'll stop. We'll pause here for the day. And again,
we we looked at some of this wonderful work beautiful workio
etiquettes of companionship by an imam is shot Ani. And it's the
first part or first half of the virtues of seclusion class, which
I'll put up the link right here.
That's the link right there. You can get seven hours of classes on
that and on virtues of seclusion, and I felt that was really
beneficial class and Hamdulillah. But in any event, one last
question here.
ticos Adi Hall says a ceremony will forgive me if this is
throwing a spanner in the works, but how do we define Dynegy
people? Forget the names of the people right now. The next is the
location. The next is the location of East Central Arabia. That's the
nudge in the province I settled on was making blessed to have prayed
for blessings on Shem and Yemen and and people kept saying nudged
and he refused to pray for them. And he said from there, we'll come
some fit them some tribulations and earthquake and the horn of
Satan. And when we talk about the melody people, we're really
talking about three issues. Number one, the issue of touch Shimon
Updata and 10 Z, which we insist upon and all Edison or GEMMA
insist upon from the times of the early stuff, okay, they insist
upon this tansy which as we said, is declaring that Allah azza wa
jal is free from bodily form from existence in time from causing
effects these ASVAB from direction, okay, from movement
displacement, that Allah is free from all this, this is the most
important feature of of the attributes of Allah is to know
these free from them. So if they refuse to refuse that that's
number one, if they don't recognize the validity of the MME,
and they merely look at them as academics that you can't follow
them because they're wrong. And they only view them academically
like history of the methods, but you can't really follow them. We
reject that completely Abu Hanifa his method is totally valid to be
followed. Okay, Maddix and Chevy's mme are totally valid to be
followed and they're more sympathetic to a Chevy than medica
number Hanifa.
Their methods if you don't recognize the the Trent that those
chains of transmission so the men hubs is the second issue. And the
third issue is their stances on those whom the almost classical
time the OMA the scholars of classical time recognize their
soul, their salah, I should say, their righteousness of color,
Jada, Annie, Atma Rifai, these people who the NASA moment and
only up we consider them only at rather what they do is they have
very bad opinions towards them. And what they're doing is they're
going against
what was an edge mounted upon them, even even their own shift in
the Tamia recognizes that I've covered Jelani was one of the
righteous and one of the earlier and he had medical on that. So the
issues of the odia as the other thing all right.
Hashem Muhammad saying reference, please reference to what? We'll
get his clarification and then we'll, we'll wrap it up
all right, he asked for reference.
We can type it in later if he if he's going to
specify what he needs a reference to so just happen to locate on
Subhanak Allahumma odiham digna shadow and Illa Illa. Anta the
stuff we're going to do in a class, in Al Insana, Fucus,
illAllah. Deena am Anwar Ministry had what was what was sort of sub