Shadee Elmasry – The Divine for Critical Minds Dr Rehan Zaidi NBF 259
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100 Allah wa Salatu was Salam ala Rasulillah. Early on Sunday here,
when well, welcome everybody to the Safina Saudi nothing but facts
live stream. We're back after missing Monday. What did we miss
Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. But here we are definitely couldn't
miss this one we're interviewing
for the first time. See, I still got that coffee here that
the divine for critical minds, the author is with us. You could see
him right here on the screen. He's here Dr. Hands eight has been in
New Jersey for a week meeting people and getting to know the
jersey community. So we're happy to have him here. Let's get
straight to it, we have an hour to talk. So let's get straight to it.
And I'm going to ask you a detail in the book first, get into meat
and potatoes. And then we could go back and talk about
no problems. No problem. So you have a chapter here. That's very
interesting, a big debate on life itself, the definition of what
yeah, that word entails and the hardship of defining it solely
from a materialist perspective. Yeah. And there is one thing I
think you you both agree with this, that the phrase
materialists, yeah, is not even accurate. Okay? What Allah says is
belief in the unseen, unseen materials melodica.
Right. But they, they are composed of light. Right? They have
something they're not imaginations, right. They are
within the realm of material, the material world yet they are of the
material world, the material, everything created is of the
material world, we then divide it between items, I am an item a
shadow, that which we can perceive, and that's what we
cannot proceed.
So what why why is it necessary? Because in the books of Akiva,
yes, the created things consist of at very least a veteran, which is
the smallest particle that can exist. So created. The heavens,
for example, are physical places. Angels, or fairies may see that
they may say that, okay, I might say that everything
would come down to an atom or a subatomic particle, whatever you
want. The theoretical particle. Yeah. And that's a that's a very,
that's, that's the materialist model, basically. Right? Yeah. But
does that mean it doesn't mean carbon based? Sure. But what do
you what do you what do you so actually, there's 100. Other
there's a section in this that talks about?
His name is
what his name is, Professor Victor. He was a he was an atheist
actually passed away. Who talks about the possibility of life
other than what we know is like carbon based life? Yeah, carbon
based carbon based life? Yep. And so if we were not within the
spectrum of this finely tuned universe, then whatever that would
be, could be life. But what do you have other than if, for example,
the the dials of the fine tuning were off, you don't actually have
any elements, you have basically hydrogen, and helium. That's all
and according to our perception,
now, our perception, how elements form right, then is the only
elements that would form so
so what whatever life would be out of those is what is he saying that
would be the possible thing that's left over? And in terms of our
understanding of what is like the scientifically anything that could
come out of that is negligible thing, but you're basically just
empty wait. So
I was arguing that in that chapter, I was just arguing for
life being you know, carbon based and these things, but that that
doesn't compensate for things such as angels or whatever, they don't
have to be within this realm of the physical, the physical. So,
the seen physical
know the physical, the measurable, the seen by us and a bill able to
measure being able to be measured by us. So, for example, that in
our opinion,
an angel can be touched, sure, can be seen by belief, we take it on
belief, okay, transmitted, your church tells us this right, not
transmitted, nothing tells us this. So therefore, that angel is
made of something, right? Why could physically think why can't
Why can it not be manifest as a thing, a point, and not to be a
thing? At another point. It can manifest as a human we know that
yes, but in its angelic form, yes. That angel form is a think that
takes up space is composed of something forever.
At least and more. It's composed of something, right? I mean, how
is it the prophecy? Angel Jibreel in his true form?
Right? He saw an angel jumped in and it's true for, right?
So it's something that has a direction that has a location that
is physically taking up space, and it's composed of length. Sure,
right. Except that in this realm, our tools are limited to what we
can see it but you're okay. But you're not saying about raw is
necessarily an atom or any smallest particle that we've
measured. Yeah, correct. Okay, so we don't know what there is. No,
it's zero. Okay. But and we also think it's material. Yeah,
everything that Allah creates, he says config on what happens, it
comes into existence in a forest. Hence, the Quranic language
focuses more on what you see and what you don't see. Whereas the
Western secular language focuses on materialists. And what is the
opposite? What would the opposite be?
Some people call themselves mysterious, mysterious. Okay, so
we don't believe in anything that is out there. That is just an
imagination, figment of imagination.
is not material doesn't mean it's a figment of your imagination.
What do you mean by material? That so I'm saying that it doesn't have
to be based in a LeBron? It this is a this is their, this is what
they've postulated. But
we can say that raw is something creative. All right. It's an it's
an all his creation. Yeah. But does that mean it's in the in the
material world? does LeBron that we can measure? Can it can
something not be within a, an existence that's immeasurable, and
outside our understanding of time and space? That's exactly it.
That's exactly our conclusion. Right? So there are things. So the
materialist is not someone who insists on the empiricist, I
should say, his shortsightedness of the empiricist is they're
measuring they're making conclusions about reality, based
upon very limited tools, which is our eyes, or ears. These are very
limited tools. The technology we produce is very limited, right?
That's where the empiricists and the upholders of scientism are
have narrowed down what is actually very vast. Okay.
And that's why they have trouble
giving an answer to what is the definition of light physically?
Like, what how do they define light?
And they say here, it's it is, are a result of organs functioning?
That's right, right. No, but we know what materialism and
production, we're doing materials believe there. It's
that nothing outside of what we can measure within time and space
exists exists. See, how could you make that sit? And that's what I'm
saying. I'm so talking to atheists and talking to people who have
graduated from this western point of view, I'm, I'm just challenging
them on various points to make sure you under they understand
that your grounding is not as solid. That's exactly your
grounding. Your whole premise is the dismissal of everything that
our tools cannot detect. Yes. And okay, so confidence. Yeah, don't
be so confident. Talk to me now about the importance of
also their snug premise of the negation of transmitted knowledge.
That is a massive premise for there's a whole chapter on that so
that's just even actually, I haven't read it yet. Yeah,
actually, do you read what you read on the podcast only or do you
read it outside? Nothing? I'm reading a straight for the first
time for the first time okay. Okay. Awesome. Great.
So you want to know a chapter that's on the concept of this
chapter four which talks about materialism Yeah. You're asking
the question on with allotted yes the importance of your knowledge
to attain certainty yet
chapter chapter five, probably we start.
Yeah. And also you have what is the quagmire of materialism? can
life be explained physically? Consciousness? Chapter Four. Yeah.
Evidence that life is immaterial, etc. Yeah. So once we've basically
established that first of all the logical soundness of the case for
unnecessary being because Okay, so just a setback before I answer
your question.
People argue on like this, the kalam arguments, right first
principles, and therefore it's a slam dunk. We got them, you know,
but if you're on the ground and talk to people, it's not just one
thing you can argue they're numb, they have numerous concerns, and
we have to satisfy them. We have answers. So like, I that's what
I've done in my book. I've thrown them a bone you know,
Alright, you know, I can accept certain parts of your case. But
let's just make sure you understand that we have the
stronger case. And I'm building it as like a, like an inferential
puzzle, just why little parts of each chapter. And I think that's a
more, it's a more an argument that they'll understand more because
we're we're talking, we're not just talking about one thing. And
then if they if they haven't, they can't digest it fully, then that
conversation is over. So first, after we discuss like science, and
we again, we've just shown them that like, you don't have a
science that you think you do. And we have some doubt in there and
the basis of their understanding of materials and whatnot, then I'm
basically asking the question, is it possible that thing if there's
a God that exists that he could have communicated? And how
reliably? Can we trust that communication? And what is
preserved from it, like the epistemology and the Senate and
everything? So
I don't think that the masses of people actually have any enough
information to disagree with that.
So there are actually people who read this book, there's just the
first time ever they've been exposed to this information.
So I don't agree that there, there's that many people who would
say that mass transmission is not an acceptable form. Well, you read
it, you just like that is absolutely clear. It's like this.
Everyone thinks, you know, like, we we know that if enough people
say it, like I think the example I use in the in
the book is if your maths teacher, you miss it in school, and your
math teacher says, pages 56 or 57 are homework, right? And then you
call up your friend and you say, Hey, I miss math, but what was
what was for homework? And he said, Professor Smith said it was
a pinch of six to seven. And then I'm not sure I'm but he's me. So
you call somebody else? And then you call somebody else? And then
you like, alright, you know what, maybe the whole entire class is
actually, they're all in on it. Yeah. But then the professor also
posted online these words. And then you're already we've been
like delta to check with the Office Administration, part of the
curriculum is like, how far do you go? Before you know it? This is
this is real. And it's faction is to reject it is more irrational
than Jay Z? That's exactly and how about, I mean, the concept that
all of language, like why does a cat refer to the animal that we
know it refers to? Right? Yes, this is not a conspiracy. And,
and there's this trend now on Tik Tok among youth. It's almost like,
it seems like it's almost like a, it's a think about it a bit
seriously. It's almost like one of these psyops where they're
experimenting, how far would the masses go here? And they're
negating things like the existence of Napoleon. Right, regaining
things like the Revolutionary War happened, right? So it's almost
like a psyop of how far can we go to negate want to watch the fact
that our society has been built?
And I think that what they do is they fill it up with Boss
see,
the numbers agreeing, right? Maybe there's a conspiracy never existed
in the first place, right?
I mentioned all these things in the chapter actually.
article by Sheikh Hamza Yusuf about the Holocaust deniers and
then
we also
Yeah.
About Did Jesus even exist? Right yeah. And so all those things how
like how
to know that your arguments
like completely CASE CLOSED
let's just make just fine. We're the stronger argument is because
we're
people everyone focuses and your blue interface one point and you
know what, it doesn't have exactly exactly who is perfectly right.
Maybe we'll even
give it to you have a point? Where does it fit into the big picture
that we're missing?
So
thoroughly with the references so I am trying to use mincing
you're more interested in making it
Yeah.
Because yeah, because we believe itself. Is is never really
realized.
I didn't mind even the PDF people saying
they're
the life of bubbles. Right? Yeah, life and their spiritual
experience of the draw and skiing
or
their degrees. There is a rational basis, there's, there's the soul,
wisdom of the law. They're telling us about the creation at a time.
So so as long as you're directionally right, in each
phase, that's where you close off the clothes off the
ability for anyone to say that any one of these is absurd. Now,
if one of them was assert, yeah, if it was, to be fair, that should
change our mind.
We all can be reassessing why we believe what we do. And every move
in any followership has a benefit. Right. Like, if you think about
Catholicism, I survived so long.
I,
what has been the most the most popular?
But what what is the secret behind
this despite it being?
The rules on a family life, right? That work that works?
Right, like, why is it? Right? Some some of
you guys can't possibly believe that, you know, everyone else,
just by virtue of birth is going to disappear into nothing. And you
just by virtue of birth, are chosen, right? So why does it
exist? It exists also, they got this family thing going on, right?
So that's where they're good. And Allah says, As long as something
has beneficial rotarod Or it has benefit in it, then it stays
insofar as it has benefit in it. So likewise, the key is being
directionally right. Yes. You don't have to go into the fine
details. But we've covered this. We've covered this, we've covered
this. I like to say this about our work here is that there there are
key facets in any Dawa. Yeah, right. And you don't need to be
number one in any one, but you need to be top five and all of
them that I think is going to be the one that is the best. Yeah, so
youth we got youth FOCA, we cover the full color spirituality is
there. Is there public general Dawa? Is there? So hips is there?
It doesn't have to be number one, because I go to places where
they're number one. But you're also number zero? Yeah, in many
places. That's the problem with Kilis hills. You got Achilles
heels everywhere. Yeah. Now we've given a type of pizza pie.
perspective here. And we talked about transmission as being one
piece of that. That's right. Tell the audience now what are the
other main pieces that you tried to cover in the book? Okay, so
fill those gaps. Yeah. Because each of these, so and then that
pizza pyre, that big picture that you're talking about? I'm not sure
if you've read it or not. But like, it was based on Mallanna
Rumi's parable, right that the inference? How do you know is if
there's this blind men were put beside an elephant? No, you don't?
What is this beast that you're standing on? What is this
elephant? Yeah, and the guy beside the tail is looking at the tail,
right? And someone's feeling the tail. And then the one beside leg
is feeling the pillar as it's feeling the leg. One beside the
side of it is like, the elephant is a wall. Right? And so they're
just taking their particular pieces of information. And they're
extrapolating what that elephant is. And, and they have a case.
Like what's in front of them? It could be that Yeah, right. So as
I'm saying, Alright, I'll give it to you. Yeah, it could be right.
But once you combine all that information, then your way each of
you are way off the mark. Yeah. So with indifference, we're looking
at various parts. And that's why when the argument comes this way,
I'd like to meet anyone with a give me a better explanation.
Yeah. From the overall. And that's why I kind of It's this. It's the
depth is different. It's more wide than like, just going down the
rabbit hole, which I do, I do go down but like it, will you lose
the reader if you go too far. Yeah, that's right. That's right.
But if you talk to these guys, right, if you talk to people who
are sincere, sincere in their inquiry to and they're
intelligent, you do have to you have to satisfy them to some
extent. That's why I hoped that
when I wrote this, that it's, it's it's not like this proselytizing
rah rah, you know, my argument, no, like, Okay, I'm gonna I'm
gonna, you know, take take your questions, and I'll try to answer
them thoroughly. Yeah, and so there's a depth you have to go to
you can't, bro
Should over because they're not convinced. Yeah. And I think a
sincere person doesn't he's not going to go in. Once someone goes
into the grains of the details of things. That's a sign of
insincerity, in my opinion. Like, once you get into the you covered
little soul of a thing, you get into the deep to the main
speculations and answer them, then anyone who goes beyond into those
little details is something they're not balanced in the head
or they're not sincere. Oh, yeah. Or they're just doing for a
rebuttal. Yeah, so what I say is, alright, we'll give it to you.
Alright. You will, you could be you. You could be right, the
elephant could be like, a long thing. Who's snake? Yeah. But the
chapters go through so many of these parts. So the first part is
logic, you know, look, like we have to understand money, we have
to understand what is what are the words impossible mean, when, like,
when someone says, God, it's impossible. Yeah, right. Okay,
what let's define this whole loan second, what is What do you mean
by impossible, right? And what is the argument? What is the most
rational argument? What is absurdity? And we, I bring it down
to a to a balanced conclusion, making my case, but also let you
know, keeping things open for them. Good, good. Then the next
chapter goes into the universe, and now the origins of, of, of the
universe, and then discussing everything from the physics to
multiverses to string theory, you know, all these things that are
very out there actually go well, 13 year old boys are asking about
this stuff. Yeah. The population is very intelligent, if we're
going to think that no, don't don't deal with them. These young
kids I go to when I went to high school, they're familiar with this
stuff, and they're asking, so we got to get with the program, man.
Okay, we It says if we zoomed right into the fifth round, oh,
right, and got straight into the book, because I wanted to go I'll
go one by one. Now we're gonna we're gonna go back because I went
in straight you know, when you get back in the day, you get an old
today, you got a YouTube series, right? You know, the first video,
I had a 15 is gonna be nothing right? Introduction, all that
stuff. I hate the first video I go, we want to go straight in,
right? So we went straight in and gave everyone a sample of what the
discussion would look like. Now let's zoom back all the way back
and introduce our author, and first he
gets in our author, then get to know what drove What drove you to
write the book, then the Ark can have the book, all right, that it
can have the book so that the 60,000 foot view is given to is
that the Fraser has a 30,000 foot view,
a bird's eye view of the book, right? And I think everyone,
especially if you're have any kind of profession where people ask
questions, if you have high schoolers, that they start asking
questions, you need to have this book. And insofar as believing
believing in Allah is our most important tenet of faith, every
defense of that becomes almost a fired upon us. Because the
likelihood of an arrow being thrown at you is very high. If the
likelihood of someone throwing an arrow at your child
is 50% is not obligatory upon him you to give him a shield. So
bigotry, if it's 5%, maybe we don't say it's obligatory, but a
25 to 50%. It's obligatory, people don't understand, though, they do
not understand. Yeah, because they're like, I believe already. I
don't need this, but I don't believe I was like, You don't
understand what your children are. Right? And you yourself, if you're
saying that, I'm telling you, that you don't know what's out there
have tricks of shades on, through philosophers through through
empiricist, etc. Let me also tell you that, for those who say that
Kadem is an innovation, the people who said that meant it,
introducing Kalam to a Muslim who will never meet an atheist in his
life in the deserts of West Africa or Arabia,
or most of this nomic world for most of history, right. But in the
urban centers, though, dad dimished, Clara, they all knew and
all these people exists. They're nasty. They have tricks, and they
must be answered is font. Well, Huck Hawk, la Jaqua Illa bitadze.
Like how does not get stronger except by an attack upon it? So
Imen actually gets stronger. Islam gets stronger when we're attacked,
and we answer attacks. All right, so your childhood you're from
Ottawa? From No, I'm from Montreal, but we basically grew up
in a suburb of Toronto suburb of Toronto, would be would be Yeah,
okay. But I was, I was surrounded by
by regular people who were, they were not all white, but there was
a small group that was
from different cultures. And we we had a good relationship, but we
had a relationship with it. Like I had friends everywhere. Yeah. And
I liked it.
I genuinely liked them. I still liked them, my friends, and people
who I would hang out with. And I think that's important for you.
And that's, that's what their sole source alone was. He had genuine
love and care for, for people. All right. So going growing up with
them and going through the growing up in the system, the school
system, what they've, what they benefited me was with critical
thinking, and a kind of a, like, genuine
approach to the world. And if it didn't make sense, it's not
because they
they're not attached in any way. So I also wasn't really attached
in that way to Islam. I was just like, just growing up. So I did
like, things in Islam and aspects of travel that I picked up and
like the court does, and I used to, like, you know, Islamic
design, this was before 911 as well, too, right? Yeah. And
so everyone was good with it. But it wasn't, it wasn't like it's a
truth. It wasn't like we were talking about truth. It was just
like a relative thing. Yeah. Right. You do you your style, me
and my religion, you know, it's all good. Just for context, back
in those times in the 90s, Islam was not on anybody's radar. Even
many, many Muslims. Islam was not on the radar, the way it's on the
radar today, where it's always in the news. It's in pop culture
everywhere.
For good and bad either way, but people don't understand that.
Islam was something you never saw on TV. You never saw it in the
newspapers unless it was a hedge. hedge and they had risk con
remember risk on the first Muslim CNN correspondent. So it wasn't
something that was like when you saw most of them, or when you saw
a slime on in the public discourse. It was a think right.
And it was oftentimes a clueless journalists. You know, just
there's no news. So they're doing a 15 second expose a on Hajj or
something like that. Yeah, Ramadan, Ramadan and stuff like
that. But the movie still had a lot of negativity, the what the
movie like, True Lies, and every every villain was still was that
before 911 Or after? That was before? That was before it was
like 90s. Right. Okay. The Arabs, the Arabs are always a villain. So
so there was still some negativity there. But people were still like,
they weren't, it wasn't as negative. So, and I definitely had
a good positive experience of Islam through meeting certain
people definitely.
Especially like I had, I was influenced by these young, these
these.
Yeah, there were young, black Muslims who had like, Sufi ties.
And they that they impressed me about their clock and everything.
But but the reason I was interested in this study was not
because I thought Islam was inherently true. I just thought it
was a matter of like I mentioned it because it was a matter of
taste. And yeah. But then people when they started asking
questions, specifically atheists, I was like, Yeah, but I mean,
that's right. Like, what about truth? And I wanted to make sure
that because I wasn't attached like that to any any group. I
didn't feel I was like, really into it, or, like, had loyalties
in that sense.
I just went through the process of critical thinking that I was that
the schooling system had taught me which all these kids are being
taught right now, if your kid goes through the schooling system right
now, they have a strength in critical thinking, their
memorization is weak. There's no emphasis on memorization. But
there is a focus on critical thinking. And that's good. It's in
our advantage. Yeah. All right. It's not like it's true wrong.
Yeah. So I wouldn't even consider this like it's all shaytaan yeah,
there's there's people but generally,
uh, let him create this, this guidance for us and allow us to
get to it through and through a like Jabba shooting a pip you
know, yeah, randomly, did not create the intellect not to be
used exactly the primary tool that Allah gave us to work through.
This is our, our intellect and I love when people talk about the
use of intellect in Islam. I said, Hold on a second, when? What are
the preconditions of tech leaf? When does Allah hold you
responsible? In Islam, the first thing you study is that you when
At what age are you responsible? And what are the preconditions and
those preconditions are maturity and sound minds? So what is the
role of intellect in Islam is that it is a necessity to to, to
understand the message. Right, so, Lachlan, that respect, critical
thinking must be used for the advantage of Muslims, not
something that people shouldn't be afraid of, even if they use it.
They're using it maybe in different way.
And they're contradicting it to by the way, they always contradict in
they maybe have critical thinking and classroom in the classroom.
But they also are with this new thing which I doesn't even have a
name. It's just whimsical illness. Like however you feel is the
reality. Yeah, real relativism that's like it however you feel is
the reality. Regardless of whether that negates Oh, yes, reason, or
physical observation to yep, yep. Right. So that actually is a
killer of opposites as IBLEES tries to use critical thinking to
make you an atheist first, right, then after that, the rationalist
empiricists are useless because they stop at atheism, but he wants
paganism, right? So let's override all that by feelings over
everything else. How you feel is more important than what what any
rationality and hence, we can stop the critical thinking the bleeding
through Kinam itemId column can stop so Oh, you critical thinking.
Alright, let's critical thing back to you. Yeah, let's bring it on.
Yeah, right. We're gonna stop the bleeding. Yeah. Because you said
this is this is how you critically think. And but this is the this is
and then they're gonna give you an answer. And you just gave me the
tools? Yeah, you just create a monster. Yeah. Let's, I'm gonna
play your game. Yeah. And I, my my believe I have a, I truly believe
anybody who uses
this path of intellectual investigation will come to the
knowledge that Allah is One. And the Prophet SAW Selim is true
messenger. Yeah. So if you if you do it, if you play that game, it
will dictate you that you have to do it sincerely. There are other
ways to you can be sincere, Allah can give you a hard time, you
would know it. But if you but this method of objective reasoning must
exist, like I go to a prison on a weekly basis. And they're the
chaplain they're good friend of mine, very, very good guy. But in
our sometimes in our discussions, he he has a lot of subjective
reasons. And as I understand that, that's okay. But every group has
subjective reasons that read that resonate with them to feel good.
But that can't be a reliable method to know what your belief
system is right or wrong. Do. We have to have some objective
measures? So what are they? Yeah, and that's how that's how I
started thinking. And I bounced a lot of things off of friends. I
spoke with a lot of atheists were staunchly against what I was that
any belief system and that's cool, because I think at that time, I
still felt they were there was some level of sincerity Yeah. Even
their part to be to be to hold truth as highest well, they were
truly rationalist. Yes. And empiricists. empiricists? Yes,
yeah. But then, when your professors and everyone is
starting to talk in a certain way, it's very hard to also see that
way down. There are some biases there. That's the material bias
snuck premises. Yes. And so that was very hard to get out have to
be very many years. Like through, right.
But hamdulillah so yeah, like, I guess I never got a chance to
study Islam, because I was like, you know, just following the
university and then MediCal program and then.
So it was kind of like this quench this thirst that was never
questioned. And until Allah gave me an opportunity to study with,
let me learn Arabic, then study with some orlimar. And, yeah, just
one by one, I started taking notes that I felt were relevant to
others like me. And there's a lot, right. I think, like someone like
Imams of one, yourself, myself, having grown up in the same era,
that I felt like these questions were the exact type of questions
that a lot of us faced in our public school education, right.
And those questions or premises that were brought forth, and also
excuse me, which is why I was out for three days. But
a lot of the also the temperaments, the feelings about
belief, we can't dismiss that either. Right, that
there's like a hesitation to say, I've concluded that there's one
God rationally. It's almost like a cloud,
unspoken, from who we're talking about, like our whole public
school life. Yes. Yeah. So that's, I'm saying that they believe and
based on their
now, we I, we can go into the history of where this belief comes
from. And I do think that our Christians, brothers, Christian
brothers have done a great injustice to us, right, because
they were the first to start taking this on. And inherently
there is there because of their belief that Jesus, I said, I said,
is is 100% Man and 100% Divine
I have an atheist will look at that and say, rule of non
contradiction. Yeah. Right? Come on, they have used that now, to
negate to rebut the rejection of transgenderism. Say, Hey, your
girl is a man, you're telling me he's a god? Well, I'm a guy. I'm a
guy. I'm telling you, I'm a woman.
That's how easy it was. Yeah. Well played. Well played. Well, thank
you. Thank you. How about this one? The the, the entire European
civilization is projecting upon Islam, their perception of what a
holy book is, which means a book that is not really reliable, yes,
tampered with, is played with for the abuse the people or control
them. Right. So you have a whole civilizational projection. That's
right. Right there. That's why in the beginning, I say that this is
not a book about religion. So any preconceived notion that you're
bringing from Christianity, or or any other belief system, we're not
talking about religion here, I'm gonna I'm looking at this as a
human investigation. And I'm talking at the level that any
human being, I mean, I don't even say sallallahu alayhi wasallam. So
please, if you buy them, actually, right, so low, why they sell them
somewhere? Say, yeah, why don't why don't I tell you share with
you this story. I shared the curriculum that we teach on Sunday
with some shoe. And they said the one thing that we would advise you
is you begin with nakida don't begin without data, Akita is my
third course. So what is my first two courses are Aluma Quran and
Ottoman Hadith, right? Because the premise of optina is firm belief
in the reliability of the Gnosis.
And in our context, it's not having to have been with people,
it's known the reality that not everyone looks at a hadith looks
at the grading and is satisfied. Yeah, right. It's a fair question.
It's a fair question, right. And also, the Academy has their job,
the Western academia, Islamic Studies is
to render Islam folklore, just as the Bible is an an
historically verifiable text. So they started with the Prophet
sallallahu, when he was southern first, right. And they, the the
default setting in academia pretty much when you look at their papers
is the dismissal of Hadith. So no, Dickie, these are the sources.
These are the original thinkers who have clarified what the Sunnah
actually is. And it's really an unreliable source. This premise in
their works, right? And a lot of them so I Jonathan Brown was like
a hero in many people's eyes, because he he was like, one person
against this whole enterprise. Well, now they're, they're
elevating to the Khurana right? out of Harvard. Right? Right. So I
didn't I was just project which is infinitely harder. You know, what,
for the common person? Where's the second version? Right? If it's not
reliable, then there should be many different versions. Right? So
where are the second version? I go to Malaysia, over the Quran? I see
the same book. Is it No, sort of such and such verse such as that
that's your wins that there's such a small little, someone who's done
some good work on this. Yeah. I mentioned in the chapter of the,
like, the preservation of the Quran.
If we flip to it, you can we can probably see it. Yep.
Basically,
taking pictures of sutras from the oldest, you know, the the.
And by the way, I'm not saying that there's no answers to this,
there are answers, but persuasively, it's a hard sell to
the masses of people that they're that the Quran is not preserved by
to watch it. Yeah, it's yeah, for them, persuasively, it's, you're
gonna have to get into the hairs to try to make your argument. And
when you finally make your argument, and someone asked the
question, Well, is there anything substantively different? The
answer is no. Right? Well, you know, we need good. Your podcast
is having someone who understands the hoof and, and answering some
questions, because I just think the general masses don't know
about this and don't care. And it's a very petty discussion, but
among Christians are like, they're trying to grasp it any anything.
And so they've tried to make something, you know, bigger than
it is like, you know, tomato tomahto discussion. Yep. But
that can even be squashed. Like what I what I basically just
explain is that you're trying
to be fair, yeah. Who's the author that I that quote is excellent at
how he's his work.
I think it's called
preservation of the grant. Got through the footnotes. You go up
here. Yeah. And he and what they've done is he's basically
except said that if you look at the press
evasion of the weakest Hadith. Right? My truth? Yeah. Is still
stronger than your the most authentic version we have a
biblical
SubhanAllah. So, like, all right,
do we really need to go into this? You don't have a leg to stand on?
Let's not doc. You know, let's let's move on. Yeah, and so um,
again, this whole thing about what they were trying to make a
rational, an overall look at big picture. There's a strong case
here. If you don't even if you don't believe in something that's
divinely preserved let's just make it this is really strongly do you
have some certainty in this text but can you trust that it came as
it as it is now to the Prophet SAW Selim. So yeah, we're not even
we're not even gonna say, Do you believe it came from God? Yeah,
just gonna say the historical figure. Muhammad, which we say the
Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alayhi. Salam, yeah, for you as
Muhammad that he is the first speaker of this book, or even less
than that, whatever was said at that time is still the book that
we have to write. Right? Like, where is the ultimate version? If
that's the case? So
that's why the legitimate concern, if someone were to ask, and there
are some voices that do, you know, try to to disparage that. Yeah. So
I cover that as well. And
just to put it in, just give it the whole argument, discussion,
some context, how do you go about with Hadith?
Just just talking about what the water
yeah.
And all the Hadith I'm using for the various things that we're
proving. There's a chapter on on miracles and prophecy. I'm only
using the water source actually, even the things I talked about, on
how can we assess whether or not the Prophet Muhammad Salah limbs
life is it is, it's acceptable to it's, it's more rational to accept
his claim, than to have some other explanation. I use either
Multiplaza Hadith, or quotes from non Muslims that were written
books that are have an animosity towards Islam give us examples. I
don't know there's like a book in there like Islam the most?
What is
Islam the most?
You can gotta look it up. But let me ask you this.
Because I'm trying to be clear. If these are the things let's let's
take see what his enemies are saying. Yeah. And if we can agree
to that event, right? Someone who has like he's on a mission to
like, debunk Islam, he will follow things we can agree to, based on
that information. Yeah, what would you say about this man, so the
Prophet peace be upon him. So that was salam, the accusations placed
against and this is from the brilliance of the Quran, is that
the rebuttals to the Prophet are in the Quran already. Very few
books include the rebuttals in the book. So they called the Prophet a
magician, they called him a liar. They called him a somewhat a
plagiarist, which the Quran says that they say about him. This is
just the Tales of Old with just plagiarism. So he took the
coattails of old
and they called him diluted.
diluted, right diluted is somebody who was sincerely believes what he
is saying, but he's actually false, right, his reality and what
he thinks are not the same, but he's fully sincere, and he's not
trying to harm you. So that's one of the more innocent coffers.
Right, they're trying to it's the gentleman British gentleman's
Cofer, right, where he's just deluded. Or as, or they also say
he's just wants to be kink. Right? So he's, this is just a power play
for money. And whatever kings want, power, money, what each of
those we have enough evidence to debunk all of them in one sentence
each or one incident of the Prophet's life or aspect. One
aspect of the prophet like that debunk debunks one of them. Let's
start with magician, what would debunk that He's a magician.
From from first glance, what would debunk that He's a magician. What
would debunk the magician? I have an idea. But let's hear well my
idea is that magicians sorcerers, medicine men throughout history,
they live all on their own.
They always live on their own. They're never social beings. They
live on their own because that's how they their veils come down to
be able to talk to the dark side
of the unseen the Sahara. Never live social lives with kids with
great neighbors and stuff like that. So how to do not live like
that. I don't even talk about that. Yeah, the Western doesn't
care about magic. So. Okay, so what about
plagiarist? Yes. So plagiarism, for example. The argument is, oh,
you know, so and so society had this information before the
Egypt's news
This, you know, this was in, you know the Greeks. All right. But
when you copy something, you don't just copy the good. You copy the
same mistakes. Yeah. Right. That's only someone who knows can make
sure that the good remains and others out. So now you're saying
not only did he plagiarize your clear, your claim that he's a
plagiarist must include that he's an editor too. And a referee of
your sources checking Well, you've got information from a
knowledgeable source. Yeah. So likewise, the funny thing is when
students copy, right, hey, you guys copied the wrong answers to
you didn't I'll just have the right answer because you can be
smart and have the right that's right. But for some questions, you
all got the wrong same wrong answer. Right. Busted. That's more
likely to be right. Okay. Very good. How about that he is just
making a powerplay from monarchy and power we know that this is all
I have discussed. easiest thing in the book. Yeah. Because just as a
proof, you must be Yeah. And so we know that whatever he was offered,
he put the place to move in my Sivan on my right, you know, like
a person who
person who is insincere is not going to stand knights worshipping
Allah in his in his hours where nobody is seeing does with his
wife, his only witness? Yeah. How about this one, too? I love the
saying money doesn't lie. Follow the money. Yeah. So the prophets
economic and financial life was public. The prophets whole life
was public. So much. So that said, I said, told us how he took us.
Right, how he took
whatever world leader Do you know how he showers how much water he
uses when he showers? Right? How long does it take? How about the
Prophet peace upon his financial life? And what is the proof of his
financial life? Yeah, the very proof of his financial life is
that the Prophet himself lived in his city out of his house for 30
days, because his wives were not satisfied with the financial
status. And how he died. But did he leave for his family? Yeah.
There's nothing to discuss except one orchard. Right? So the
financial life of the prophet peace of mind, I think nobody can
argue with because pretty much in all societies, we have a clue
about if we socialize enough, we will have a clue about how much
money what rains you're in. I don't know how much money but we
have the range. We see how we go to your home, we see how your face
looks. You see how your body looks like yours food being eaten here,
right?
Food being eaten? We can tell that right? Yeah, we can tell that. If
especially now if you go look at how they used to live. They used
to live one home is here. This this studio that we're in may have
four homes. Like little tent, little, little tent little huddle.
Everyone is living close to each other, we can know your financial
status pretty much. Okay, so that's that one. What about the
deluded one, where they say that he really believed that he was
receiving revelation? But it was a delusion? There was no it was a
hallucination what was but also that's more than almost medical.
Sure. But just Google you go back for a second because I covered
these things in the book. And I tried to you know, I really put it
through the wringer. My friends, some of my friends read the book,
I open the books and read some of the chapters wondering like, Bro,
are you? Are you a Muslim? How would you ask that? No, by the
way, before you say this, some people have criticized them which
accredit them in a multicolumn because he positions himself in a
debate in the as a position of not relying upon norsu Surya does not
mean he personally is putting himself as a Kaffir. And then
arguing for because one time an intelligent person told me Eligos
early says, You have to think as if you're a Kaffir and then prove
Islam. That's not what it is in the discussion. you're positioning
yourself in as in a discussion, much as the prophesy Salam
positioned himself merely suffered a lot to say merely about the
prophet but as leader of Medina, in her debut, not as Rasul to the
whole world, right and say, naughty refused even to take that
off. Yeah. So we know that so positioning yourself in a
discussion with somebody else does not mean he says I am the
messenger, right? Whether they like it or not, but for the
purpose of this contract, ruler of Medina, that's so likewise,
imposition of your book, for the sake of the discussion with an
atheist, you're going with the premises that also that you all
agree on. And to be fair, fairness, the truth is the highest
objective here, and if I'm incorrect, then I am willing to
change my position. But let's be in but that same time, my whole
hope is that when we talk about this stuff, that the people we're
talking to are are going to be fair with me. If you don't have a
better explanation, yep. Right. Then your position also has must
be that you will accept mine unless we can come up with
something better. The hallucination deluded and hello
Isn't it it shouldn't be, I believe, because the reseller
comes out for everybody. It should be as interest should be as
obvious and simple as the sun.
Go back that was just what I was trying to say was, I didn't
actually take it as financial benefit, but any ulterior motive
any benefit, any benefit, which included which includes
shut off which includes, you know, sitting up on a high seat.
So I I address all of those things because that's that's because
pardons could say Yeah, but you know, you just want maybe he
wanted this instead just
like to be looked at and to be praised. Sophia and authority came
upon a Sufi and he said this man, you can take away all his food,
all his money and all his drink. And he'll be okay with it. But you
can't take one iota of his job.
One person says one bad thing about him. He goes crazy. So his
kibra is in his jet everything so he's not a true ascetic. Okay,
continue. So then yeah, so, I wanted to put put that tonight
just financial benefit good, but any ulterior motive, and you know,
when through put put, you know, put it down as a dilemma, we, we
have this beautiful, pristine example, Allah made his life this
is like to have pride.
And we have this we can stand up and say, yeah, there is nothing.
Yeah, you know, yeah.
So, so then then yeah, I didn't talk about that. I think I
actually mentioned if I, if I can think correctly, that
that what we can say is that he was sincere. And he believed he
was sincere. The, the concept of delusion, we can't we can't talk
about except now looking at objective information, such as
what happened
compared to what he believed. So for example, for example, he had
complete certainty in his success, right? Allah wouldn't give success
if Allah was not the master of the world. Then I said, I basically
said that a person who were not a genuine messenger and and God
existed and is a false claim that he would not be success he would
not see success and I think quoted the
this book the what is it called? 100 most influential Yeah, that
Michael Right. Yeah. Right and
and a couple of other other other things in there to make sure that
every every mark of success is is with him. And as in comparison to
the the False Prophet what, what did he call it? Most of the Yeah.
How about also that delusions tend to contradict reality. So exactly
what how can you Yeah, so you will forget then use the polite
disbeliever will say
he was sincere. That's why he was able to convince his companions.
Yes. And he lived by what he believes but it was not an angel.
He was saying it was a hallucination. Okay, so a
hallucination is false, right? It's a false thing. That's right.
The false only produces the false, okay. So, a false hallucination
would not produce a beneficial law
would not produce a beneficial sunnah. And we find benefit law
and order and benefit in his hygiene, his diet, everything that
is his sunnah. That is that is recommended for us to follow his
law, his doctrine, his Akita, how about also that's one point. The
second point is a hallucination. People who are deluded, tend to be
deluded in everything they desire. So in his work, he's deluded. In
his marriage. He's deluded. Like he wants something so badly. He
fools himself, right? All right. He wants something so bad that in
his home, he deludes himself in public office. He deludes himself
like liars. And illusionists are similar in the same sense, but the
delusion is, is somewhat more complicated than a liar. The
Illusionist is better. He convinces himself of the lie so
that he can be totally sincere and sleep at night. Yeah, like I
remember someone saying you pass the polygraph on it. Someone's
saying the difference between Trump and Clinton Hill Brooklyn,
like Bill Clinton was so he was beloved by the people, right?
Because he came off as genuine. But people around him said this
guy is a liar. But in order to sleep at night and be nice to
everyone, he actually believes his lies, whereas Trump knows he's
full of hot air, right? Like he's beyond ever even believing that
there's true and false. So that's where the argument against
delusions is like, Well, why wouldn't he be deluded in how he
runs? How do you how are you how are you diluted and successfully
run a state? Like beautiful mind, the guy was deluded by something
very small.
As Yeah, like three people who are telling him that there's a war,
right that there's a war coming. And that destroyed his little
family of three people, right wife and kid, he couldn't even manage
that reality has an effect. It has an effect, you cannot sensible
effect productive in reality, if you're deluded, I didn't mention
this. But that's because I remember in so us
talking to some people and Quranic experts, who genuinely I would
say, I had dismissed academia before, but that was a general
dismissal. There was one there were a couple guys genuinely
loved. The Quran loves Islamic heritage, right? They talk to you
as a Muslim, like, you think he's a Muslim. Okay. And I started
thinking myself like, this is a very complex person. So as some of
my friends like, what do you think's going on in the head up
there? Right?
They say that.
He told me that what they say is that Muhammad was there's
definitely something going on. Right. And they stop at that.
They refuse to say it's Huck. Right? They say that there's
definitely something going on with the Prophet peace, but it's not a
normal human beings. I think so. But they stop at that. So then I
asked, well, what are you saying then? Is he hallucinating? Or is
it Djibouti? Or you're saying he's not a liar? You wouldn't love a
liar. You're saying he's not delusional. You wouldn't love a
delusions? You're saying he's not a charlatan? Right? So which one
is it? It's just sometimes it's just hesitation to change your
life. Yeah, that's Ebele could be like, die is from Allah. And so I
don't believe like 100 on like, some people who have given this
book to we've had some talks are connected to the book, there are
people who I think are benefiting, and a couple 100 People are
reading it, they do reach out to me and some have become Muslims.
And I wouldn't attribute it to the book though, because the ugly
arguments themselves like argumentation is not what leads to
Eman. This is like it's, it's a from Allah. And if I could make
one correlation to it, it would be a HELOC. a HELOC is what wins
people's hearts. So definitely, I do expose yourself to Islamic law
and Westerners hesitations with certain things in the Sharia. So
I'm not playing the, like the Islamic scholar card, you know,
I'm, I, I'm a physician, I do my work. This book is not written as
a physician. It's not written to the scholar. It's written as a
regular guy who has some things in Islam don't require scholarship,
right? For example, prohibition of alcohol, prohibition of gambling,
prohibition of usury, you know, like
Wall Street, it's what's the difference between some of these
swaps and gambling, right synthetic CDO stuff is gambling,
right? But anyway, these things like you talked to downstairs, I
heard you guys mentioning the Rudy knowledge. My Lumina, Dean
bedarra. Doesn't need scholarship. Right. But some people may. You
know, that may be their hesitation. So some people don't
go to the route. Some people just go to the branch. Why does a woman
have to cover why does so you're talking about what do I do I
discuss these things with you as hangups for people have these
hangups. No, because, you know, I feel this is the work of the
prophets was in, in Allah. And that right now, that is what is on
the table of discussion. Yeah. All that other stuff. Like, we can
talk about it later. Right. See, that's the rational approach. But
not all people are rational. People make the big picture in
mind. People may reject the route merely because of one branch.
Yeah, so yeah, yes. Right. And get the questions. And fair enough. If
you saw something like a big red flag, yeah. Then it you should you
should be. You should be. You should assess that. But that's
what I was telling you that I discuss some of these things with
the PERT with someone I know a chaplain friend of mine, and there
are certain hangups or subjective things. And I said we'll get
there. We'll get there right now. lets us look at the nuts and
bolts. I'm focusing on the nuts and bolts I'm trying to bring
respect back to the concept of fee ism. All right, stop taking it
back. We're not We're not backpedaling on the backfoot and
defense mode. We got the more rational position Let's listen.
Let's start to like make sure we understand what the who's has a
strong case. And then we will talk about Islam there's there's enough
oil Amanda do that. That's just not that's not my thing. Fair
enough. We got a few minutes. Let's go to the to the live stream
and take some questions. Okay, first of all, where can we get the
book? The book is on Amazon. And the book is the divine for
critical minds on Amazon.
I'm so get it from Amazon. All right. Mmm. So one, we want to
hear from mamsa. One. Your comments on this whole discussion?
Just pull the mic up. No, no, it's so good. It was a great
discussion.
I think this book, this book would be great for Yan,
who was wondering about
Yan was wondering about this. Okay. Well, I fell in love.
So yeah, I think it's it's a fantastic discussion. I think that
the idea of investigation, right as a primary obligation of Islam,
I think is is not spoken about enough. And Allah subhanaw taala
prints in the Quran mentions, for instance, for zero fill out the
form the roquet for better and right travel the earth and
investigate know, though,
some of the classical scholars said that no vote is in fact
investigation, right. Versus, for instance, tout or Yara, like, so
for instance, see something versus another, which is to investigate
something to analyze something. And so this is kind of what we
would call the deep sunnah, like the Sunon, for instance, knuffel
prayers, and these things are emphasized in the consciousness of
Muslims. But what are the deeper Sunon that actually make someone a
proper human being, and one of them is right critical thinking
and intellect. And obviously, these are things we see even in
the Shema, in that the Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu Alaihe, Salam
Canada email victory was always in a state of contemplation, right?
So what does this entail
is that you are spending time engaging with the material world
around you, for the purpose of what we would call kind of this
WLP realization, right? So you can get a glimpse, you can get a taste
of the Will the desire, the knowledge, the purpose, right, and
you're analyzing texture, and taste and smell. And this is the
essence of what it means to be human. And then to then
give these things names, right, I let my Ademola smell cooler, has
to then organize and have a team of that have those realizations
and replicate them and talk with others about them. I mean, this is
really what the Sahaba did more than anything was sit and discuss
reality. Right. And so you know, even when we look at the
construction of the framework of how Allah subhanaw taala and sort
of Terrassa, where he says, Look, you're in a state of loss, the
only way to resist it, is actually to sit what till so, but hopefully
what the West has suffered, right? To be in dialogue with one another
about truth, right, and in truth and using truth and for the
purpose of truth, and to do so with patience, right? Realizing
that you're going to encounter confusion and opposition, and
you're going to have to sit in that confusion. And when you
reconcile those confusions, then you come up with a synthesis of
greater thought. Right, as you were saying, and so absolutely,
there is. But But I would say, for Muslim communities, there is a
great wake up call that is required. Because whenever we, you
know, we go out and we get this I am and we learn these theologies,
and we find these teachers is great, qalam teachers, and we
spend so much time with them. And we read all of this theology and
all of the modern postmodern philosophy. And then we might come
back to our communities, and they're saying, Well, why don't
you tell us more stories? Yeah.
You know, and so now, it's like, these different tastes. And you
might find a few different people who say, Oh, we need theology, or,
you know, I read this paper and that paper.
And so it is, it's tough, a lot of times outside of Tally outside of,
you know, the educational pathways, to even get your
community say, Oh, this is something valuable.
That's what I find is a great struggle. It is a challenge. And I
think I like what one
scientist physicist said outside the realm of a slump. And he said
that when someone learns something so thoroughly, the hallmark of
that is being able to distill it to somebody who doesn't know
anything about it. Right. And the logicians in Islam, they always
said, in their main books on logic, that knowledge is divided
into two two
types, the one that requires zero effort to attain, and then built
upon that, that built upon itself will arrive to you as knowledge
that does take effort to attain. I didn't know Rudy, and I didn't
agree. Nobody like the word that you said nobody. So for they
always give the example of someone who says what is a 40th? of a
10th?
No, sorry, what is it again? It is literally a loss. Right?
And it's the Zika, right? 2.5% of Zika. But we know what a robot is.
That's a quarter. And then we know that all should is all should is a
10th. All right, so that's easy to get bulk. Combining them takes a
little thinking, like someone says, a quarter of a 10th. It
doesn't register right away. But you say 1/10? Yeah, it's one out
of 10. So that's easy to get. Alright. So when you combine two
easy things, that produces a complex truth, right, and that's
what another is, and that's the Animus eight is anybody can do
another, if you put the effort in is thinking about this simple
thing. And this simple thing, most of seer is this area, and this
area. Yeah. How do we bring them together? Precisely, that's most
of you, when you're not
well versed. When you're when you're not well versed with your
alien, that's when you get defensive. Yeah. And that was the
problem. This is the problem with young people are having to like,
and it happened to me too. I went to ask, are there my questions?
And they're like, don't ask that stuff. That's from Shaytaan. Don't
don't think that yeah, so
somebody here says the proof that the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa
salam was not a Sahar is suitable for luck. That said, happened to
him. And so if he was a sad, he would never admit that a low level
Sahara of Medina of yesterday
decided upon him. So you see Subhanallah there are in some
things, you wonder, it seems like a weakness or an imperfection.
There is actually a revelation of perfection. There's
and have examples from the life of the process that that show that a
man who was doing this for, you know,
just to win people that would not have done something that was
against the earth of his people. Yep. Right Drew. Guys just trying
to win over the people you would not have married Xena. Exactly. So
I've mentioned these and these at that time, they seem heavy on the
profit side um, how'd he go through that Allah made his life a
testament Yeah. A and I loved also what one Orientalist non Muslim
Montgomery was spent his whole life debating against Islam. And
he goes that the proof that Muhammad is a prophet, hi, Aisha
Raji. Hello, John directly asked him who do you love most? And he
said Khadija.
You said that's the proof. How about another proof said Aisha was
accused? Yeah, yeah. And his family that accuses honor of the
Prophet, right when a man's wife commit Zina. That means she's not
satisfied with the men.
And so this is a this is a fitna on many levels 30 days pass. But
how is Aisha made innocent? By evidence, no. External worldly
evidence know how she made innocent by the Quran. So if you
are saying that the prophet is the author of the Quran, why wouldn't
he bring that answer right away? Why would he wait 30 days of
excruciating pain for his family, if He's the inventor of these
words. So sometimes you see something looks like
a negative. But in fact, it dispels so much. That's why Allah
created his life in that perfect of that perfect example for us.
And we have no this. So those are those are the cases that are
built, as well as when they came and asked, asked him some
questions. Yeah, he was supposed to answer. Yeah. And, and he had
the answers immediately, just like you're saying was that this book
is a reference for for non for Muslims, to be able to talk to non
Muslims and as well as if they have a non Muslim as it was an
intelligent person, they feel sincere. This is the one you would
feel proud to give to your non Muslim friend, friend, that they
could see us something fair. It's not he's not trying to convert me.
It's like this is why he Yeah, he has a rational belief like people
will actually have non Muslim friends. Right, who I feel they've
read the book and have it has improved their Eman in the fact
they can talk about God only. Sometimes you don't have to hit
you don't have to go the full way. You just have to take one step in
that direction. And the ball snowballs by itself whereas if you
try to push someone all the way you guys remember Aaron Boone
famous saying
in one of the epic game sevens Yankees and Red Sox, that Aaron
Boone the manager told Aaron Boone Listen, it's extra innings now,
right? Just don't just try to say
Single too, right? You might homer to left, right, like keep us real
simple. Just tried to do one good thing. And that thing may
snowball. So what did he do? Homer to left, right? So just try to do
one simple thing we don't need to go someone from zero to movement.
Yeah, just go to from zero to like what you took here like one or two
steps, closing words but unfortunately have to end today.
I have my coaching debut today I don't want to mess that up. Right.
So I'm gonna take my myself and, and get in and do this. I have a
coaching debut in soccer. So for the JV team, so we'll see how that
goes. And we'll give everyone the update on Monday inshallah. But
let's hear your closing words. Okay. And question, by the way,
for both of you is, it's time was on the ascendancy right now in the
Western world? What is the cause?
That was a question from the audience. Yeah, I just want to say
that it's important for us to understand that detractors of
Islam, they don't have an actual vision for where they want to take
people. Right. So they're just trying to just put a doubt in for
what's next. They just need to put a doubt in why because desires are
so strong there's so many desires and distractions if I can just put
that doubt in that's enough to hold you in your distracts from
desires, right. And so but but I going back to this entire
dialogue, the Quran gives us the tools to understand that there are
certain prerequisite concepts of consciousness that one has to
achieve before they can even see Islam. Right and Allah subhanho wa
Taala mentions this right local Nana smell oh now Quito Matco was
having him finally we had listened right if only if only we had used
our intellect there's also other a shout out the mankind Allah Who
collarbone al Qasim our who are shaheed Moshe the being able to
witness being able to hear having a heart that is responsive, that
there are all of these prerequisites built into the
Koran. So here he's saying, as Dr. Shetty was mentioning, and you are
as well, that if you can just move someone towards having a more
responsive heart, or being able to witness reality in a way that is
slightly more sophisticated and be present, then from there, they
will be able to witness the signs and the work is done. From there.
It's on Allah from there. Right. So I just think it's such a
beautiful effort. You know, may Allah bless. May Allah reward,
Matthew, and thank you for having us on. Oh, it's my pleasure.
But I'll leave the closing words. Just to just thoughts on that.
And, like the ascendancy of Islam.
And this whole thing about planting seeds, right. We don't
have to close the deal, man. Yeah, you know, and it's not about it's
not even about what book you're going to read where the book,
right? People watching us all the time. It's a great point. And so
if we could, if we could, if I can do anything, if
the smallest thing is just to bring certainty back in there in
in the strength of our position, because people feel it when you're
when you're when you doubt, you know what, you're not sure, then
they are going you're going to leave that down the people are
people 12 People who are the Muslim who has is sure about their
intellectual basis and the why they believe what they believe
this is going to, this is going to like it has it's going to, it's
going to send ripples wherever you go and that little seed you don't
know where it's going to end up. So I've been I've seen people who
have become Muslims and have left as well as people who had some
someone who they've met who put that small seed in somewhere later
on their life. They've become Muslims and the West is thirsty
for the island. And for the deen for truth. There's and there's a
lot of chaos and pain and confusion. So yeah, people are
gravitating because they're thirsty. If we can, we can work
out definitely work on the alcohol. But if we can work on our
like, I think there's the spiritual development that we all
have to put in our time. And the love Rasul Allah says Allah and
just work on ourselves.
People are thirsty for we fill our cup inshallah we know people are
have empty glasses here. Subhanallah that's beautiful
closing words. Does that come a little later on and thank you all
for watching and attending. We will be back Monday but in the
later Allah again, the divine for critical minds inquiry into God's
existence by Hans ad you can get on amazon.com Subhanak Allah Who
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