Shadee Elmasry – Questions Surrounding the Sexual Abuse Epidemic part 2
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The speakers discuss the issues of sexual abuse, privacy and decency in the legal system, privacy and decency in the community, and the need for a national registry to identify sexual peststers. They emphasize the importance of privacy and decency in the legal system, the need for a system to protect people from abuse, and the importance of government intervention in addressing verbal abuse. They also touch on the difficulty of proving claims of abuse and the need for government intervention.
AI: Summary ©
Okay, there would have been scratches on his
labrum
now we can see where you are here.
You got it. We're good to go
I'm honored here to meet
you.
Alright, so where do we leave off?
We left off at CES can be accused to the witness can be just too
okay
all right, so we left off.
I don't know where exactly we where we left off. But we were
saying that you got three you got anything that the society deems is
a crime and isn't something that would be contrary to Cydia is
going to be a crime, okay, and they're going to have a limit on
how they could punish. But the punishment itself will be called
to zero or discretionary. Now, why are we saying this? I'm saying
this because there are some people, and some women have heard
apparently, that no form of abuse will ever go punished. Except if
there are four witnesses to now, in in an issue like sexual abuse,
you're not going to have four witnesses, obviously, because
people do that in private, right? They do it when there's only two
people, which is also why we understand now the prophets I send
them said, you have to be a man and a woman should not be alone in
a room. Even if he's teaching you the Quran. And even if it is
Maryam, Ben Tamron has to dip, okay, even if it's the Virgin
Mary, and someone's teaching her the Quran, or she's teaching the
Quran to someone, right? They shouldn't be alone in a room. So
now you understand that. And people sort of question that in
the past and thought it was extreme, you actually can
understand exactly that people are doing this. Now, they no longer
want to be alone in a room with someone for other reasons, like
executives don't want to get sued. Doctors don't want to get sued
dentists, right. Don't want to get sued. So it's the same thing,
though. Essentially, it's the same thing. Okay.
So, the issue is that if there are witnesses to abuse, or multiple
people claiming and abuse, okay, so who was the Hollywood guy? Or
the Harvey Weinstein? It's much allotted in that respect. Okay.
It's much Watson in that respect. So at that point, yes. God, he
could do something, he's not going to give the guy 40 lashes or, or
give him head punishment. But yeah, he could do something if
it's more towards and it's widespread. And there are
witnesses, and all the women are the victims are coming out.
They're not related. They don't know one another. Okay. And yet,
they're still bringing the same story or the same basic idea. Like
what caused you went through? Like, what are the winds he went
through? Okay, or did and the types of witnesses that came forth
for him. So that could go and be prosecuted. It's not going to be
prosecuted with a head, right. But it still would be a case. And
Akagi could look at it. And this is just because some, someone came
up to me recently, and thought, or told me that other people think
and imagine that if there are no four witnesses, then there will be
no justice or no action taken.
And that they can't say anything. Now, here's the difference.
There's a big difference between reporting something to the police,
and publicly making an accusation. There's a big difference. So you
could report something to the police. Okay. It's very different
from making a public accusations, public accusations against people
without evidence. Okay.
This is an ad. So I think what he meant was he was talking about
because I wasn't on, I wasn't online. Okay, at that period of
time, I was busy. So I was offline. But I happened to be with
the members. And at that time, like we're literally together
probably in the few days that he wrote his post, which everyone got
upset about.
And all he was trying to tell me was that he was really concerned
and alarmed by the idea of Muslims supporting these, this concept of
just accusing someone. All right, publicly without any evidence.
That's all he That's what he told me. Right. And that to me, that's
fine. Right? I mean, we do agree with that premise that that or
that basic idea. However, something could be reported to the
police. Right, that there's nothing wrong with because you're
not making it you're not going publicly and saying something that
doesn't have any evidence because all you do as you create a he said
she said, right type of division between people. Alright, so what
do you got to say on this? I have a question. Yeah. So you talked
about
publicly accusing someone you talked about reporting to the
police. What about similar to the case valium data was talking about
whether where you go and you accuse someone in court, or like
the trial, like the Senate hearings that were going on, which
isn't about that court, but it kind of operates almost as a
tribunal to see if the guy gets the job. Does that count as an
accusation without enough witnesses? Or is that? Yeah, that
would count as a public accusation. Right. That's a public
accusation. But then like, how could you? Yeah. So but then how
would you ever? Like how would you ever get justice for justice by
reporting it to the police and once the police have received
multiple reports, right, but the police won't do anything unless
they have enough evidence to say okay, we can prove beyond 99%
doubt that
this Okay, so how was Harvey Weinstein being? How was he? I'm
not sure. I don't know. There's gotta be there's gotta be a level
where if there are multiple accusers, who have nothing to do
with one another, who don't know one another, right? And their
story is the same story. And usually, these people act in the
same way. For example, the NBC guide, I just forget these
people's names.
What's that NBC guy who got from the Today Show, Matt Lauer. Okay,
so Matt Lauer's case was that he was so famous in the world that he
couldn't do his design or that he wanted to do in public, like he
couldn't go find a woman and pump or not in public, I mean, outside
of his home or workplace because he was so famous, right? So he had
to do it in his job. So these people, they have a repeat cycle.
Most offenders like this, they have a habit and a pattern because
they live their regular life. And they could only wiggle out a
certain spot in their regular everyday life where they do their
abuse. Right. So Matt Lauer it was at work. Harvey Weinstein, it was
during the interview process or whatever, someone to get a job.
Bill Cosby was the same thing. He had a typical pattern. Right? He
had a repeat pattern, where he basically would just take the
people upstairs to his room and drug them. So if those stories all
pan out, and they're all separate, and to the point that the women
don't know one another, I'm telling you, and there's nothing I
haven't seen anything in the books, but knowing the basics of
Sharia. There's there can be action done taken on that. Right,
there can be action taken just on that there's no way that that
could just be left. So I have another question. Yeah. So from my
understanding, the
the idea of like when you bring for when you accuse someone, even
for witnesses, that's me say I'm accusing another person of doing
something wrong, right. And I have to bring four witnesses from my
acquisition to stick
to this option, there is truth, but in this in certain cases, so
like in in situations of sexual abuse, typically, it's not a third
person who's the victim, who's the legend. She's not bringing false
accusations. She's She knows that happened for her. It's an absolute
fact. Yeah. Right. That just that this happened, right. So she's
bringing an allegation that Oh, this guy raped me. Yeah. Right. So
for her, it's an absolute fact. She's not she's not slinging
accusations. So I think that's a little bit factually different
than then bring them me bring up a good point. Yes, that's a good
point. But in terms of
what if someone is to label someone as the victim? Right, then
you need at least a piece of evidence. Secondary evidence?
Yeah. Well, for someone to be found guilty. Yeah. Right. But But
like, isn't the entire court process, then it's there to
establish guilt or innocence. So like, if a person brings an
accusation, like similar to say, what happened with in the recent
supreme court hearings, right, the first lady, she she brought
allegation saying that I was abused. Right. And then after
that, a few more women came out, saying that, Oh, he didn't see me
too, or or I saw him do this kind of behavior that I'll like, part
of possible to make a little bit louder. So yeah, so other other
people came out saying, Oh, I saw behavior from this man, which was
consistent with the allegation is that of sexual abuse or different
things giving circumstantial support to it? So her thing wasn't
so much. Okay. Let me just lay accusations to him. Yes. Let me
bring my story out because she was harmed by this. Yeah. In the case
in the actual specific case of Dr. Ford. She didn't really appear at
all to be slinging an accusation but like she appeared totally
genuine. And I think I haven't heard a single person, maybe some
of his supporters. You
But I haven't heard a single person put a doubt, besides Trump,
who went off and gave a speech right, and said, Well, she doesn't
remember anything. But she really didn't look like she was just
slinging accusation for the for fun. Right? And, but like you
said, like, you're still technically speaking.
Okay, you still need something to, to make someone guilty. Right? And
by the way, a sister asks, like, if you can't make someone guilty
on the earth, then will they be found guilty in the sight of
Allah? Well, obviously, Allah knows and all season Allah doesn't
need any witnesses. And I'm saying that because some people actually
do imagine that No, justice will be had, if there are no witnesses.
Well, if you're a moment and you believe in the effort, oh, yeah,
you will get justice in the afterlife, right. And just because
someone is not found guilty does not mean they're innocent. And
they have to understand people have to understand that too.
Because
it's also imagined or thought that just because when we say the word
that there's no evidence means that we don't believe you, right.
And the Prophet peace be upon him. He had or reverse case where a man
a, he was, he was a dark skinned man. She was a dark, he was a
brown haired man, married to a very dark woman, in the time of
the prophets of Allah when
he comes in, and he accuses her, okay, he tells the prophet tells
prophets, I send them I came home, and I saw my wife sleeping with
another man. And the man is so and so. And that man was known and
famous for having red hair. Right? He was a reddish complexion.
The prophets I send them grew angry. Okay. And said,
we'll see what happens when the baby comes out. However, do you
have four witnesses? He said, No, I don't have four witnesses. He
became angry. And then he told the Sahaba, he said, If she gives
birth to a red haired baby, right, and he made a dua against her.
Right? But he told the man, you have no recourse. There's nothing
you can do. Right? There's nothing you can do, because you didn't
have the evidence. So he believed them in. But he knew that he
couldn't.
He couldn't do anything about it. And then the baby came out with
reddish hair. Right? So he separated between the husband and
the wife, because once you accuse your wife, or vice versa, you
can't be married anymore. Right? So that's how huge an accusation
is. So for people to understand that just because in any situation
where you're saying, there's not enough evidence does not mean we
don't believe the person. Right? Because think of how traumatic it
is when you get victimized, and then no one believes you. Right?
So and especially like your family, right? You got to expect
your family to believe you if you get victimized, however, still,
that's one thing. And the actual finding of someone to be guilty is
another thing. And that's exactly why the whole issue of sexual
abuse is so bad. Because there's just it's so easy to get away
with.
That's the problem. So what should say Muslim woman do because it
happens in our community,
by people who are victims of sexual abuse, what recourse do
they have? Because chances are they don't have witnesses. Right,
you chances are it's usually a close family member or close
friend or someone who, who they confide in or someone close, who
commits the action. So what recourse do they have to getting
justice for what happened to them?
See, that's the thing if we're talking just theoretically and
ideally,
theoretically, and ideally,
I think that as soon as something like this happens, it should be
logged. Right? And the log should be a national law, not a local
police law. Right. So you report it to the local police, but then
it gets logged with a not a federal thing nationwide, right,
because you can't expect local police to be corroborated people
move around and do these things in different states, right.
And then a person if now multiple accusations are coming upon a
person, and it's a you have a federal log, right. And now you
have two and three and four in different states. Now you can take
action, right? You can actually call the call in these,
these, these look at these allegations and measure them
against each other. The witnesses don't know each other. They're
reporting the same thing. How is this right? Obviously, something
went on. And some kind of transient or discretionary
punishment is put down on the person, right? I mean, I'm
thinking I'm just thinking like, how was he going to do it?
Yeah, which is which is like why it's such a serious issue and
like, a lot of times the only recourse I guess that people have
is
is going public? Right? Well, that's a problem if you didn't
have a system, and I don't know if there was a system in place there
might be, but just think about it. Think about what I'm saying it, I
think it makes total sense. You should have a nationwide
registry. Basically, anytime someone does an act of sexual
abuse, right, you report the report by itself a single report,
right? Doesn't do anything.
Right, because I can make up a single report, right, anyone can
make up a single report, we're not sitting right, it could possibly
it could happen. A second report. Now, in a different location
flags, flags should go up a third report and a third location, or
even a second and third and fourth report in the same location.
The person should be flagged, he should be flagged, right? And
these reports should be totally private, because women don't want
to report to the HR, because they don't wanna lose their job. Well,
what's the HR gonna do anyway? Right, they can't prosecute. So
you're in this fear of the superior. So Matt Lauer, no one
wants to go against him, because he's more important than the HR,
right, that guy was making $25 million a year, if he gets upset
with someone in HR, right? Who's Wait, who's who's more important
to NBC. But if you have it that, let's say, just your fingerprint,
or just some
anonymous
piece of information that links the, the one making the
allegation, and the testimony, so that there's not even a fear that
her name will leak out as accusing the guy like that. And then now,
it's in the registry, it's in his registry, he has a registry, and
he should be informed, you have a registry, okay. And I don't know,
maybe informing him or not, it might set it might actually,
actually, you don't inform him, because that might jeopardize the
girl who was just victimized.
Because you'll know that you just ratted me out. And he might get
more violent. So it's anonymous, in that it's not totally
anonymous, and that there's some piece of information linking the
person to the, to the, to the account to the testimony, and then
they just monitor it. If a second one comes out, a third one comes
out and a fourth one comes out, then you have an investigation.
Right? And at the very least, think about it. I mean, if these
people do this stuff, I don't think that anyone does this stuff
one time. I really don't. There's certain things you don't do once
in life, you know, there's certain things you're it's just part of
your behavior, like a repeat type of person. Right? And I think this
is one of them. This is one of the things that behaviors that people
repeat, over and over. And now here's the worst thing. The worst
thing is when
it's in the house to a miner, and the guy is just picking on the
same girl, and that happens a lot between a man and a stepdaughter,
right? And more disgustingly could be a man and his niece or his
daughter herself. Now, this is a really, this is something where
you're you you need something beyond police. Like there's no way
to police these things, because some people are actually sexually
abusing minors like nine and eight and nine year old stepdaughters.
Right? Then by the way, the the punishment of * is the
punishment of Zina.
And in some books I read that it's
called the AR * is punishable by death, right? Just as if you
stick someone up for their money that's gonna survive that. Like if
I beat you up with my bare hands. Okay, and take your money. That's
theft. In this case, you took something else? Yeah. This Oh, you
took something way more valuable, right? But so so if I actually
threaten you with words, and with my hands for money, it's not gonna
show like that. But if I take out a weapon, or if I brandish a
weapon, and ask you for your money, right? So what is that?
That's one that's punishable by death. So that's basically I'm
taking something valuable from you by use of force. Well, what's more
valuable money? Or like a woman's like privacy and dignity and all
that stuff? So called the AR, though the medical school said
that that's punishable by death. Okay, that * is sponsored by
the sexual abuse doesn't always have to be *, right? It could
be less than that. But it's still as traumatic. It's so dramatic,
right? So that I don't see a solution. Do you see a solution
for like, so stepfathers and girls and usually people, no one knows
about this until she's like, 18. Right, or she comes out with it.
I don't know about a solution for that. But I mean, one thing and
that was the point that I was going to make, and I think ollie
over here made the same point here is that, you know, summarizing
what he said, sort of like these are two different systems. We're
talking about the Sharia and things in the US
Right. And in many cases, the system we have here is a system of
oppression. So now we're kind of like mixing and matching two
different things. So the system itself isn't going to do much for
you. You know, well, here's the thing, like, if everything is set
up, right, you know, the, you know, what, why do women not go to
the police? Right? Because in many cases, there's not even an
investigation, nothing even happens. Right. So what lay and
then on top of that, everybody looks at her and accuses her, and,
you know, lashes out at her so like, you know, what's the
incentive? You know, in the right system? I think at the very least
an investigation would take place. And we would see if there is
substantial evidence. So I think the first point is like, the
system itself, the whole thing is wrong. Right. And that's why
that's why I was there. Yeah. Because I don't know what now
because it is just a
phrase for people to say, it says, okay,
neutral question for the sake of discussion.
is getting a kick out?
Fast that comes to us with information we have been ordered
to verify. Okay, now, here's, here's, let's look at this before
we address the other GM, for the sake of discussion is enough
problematic that we are discussing the Islamic Sharia ruling on this
matter when it's not an Islamic court, right? No, we're actually
not because we're saying if we were to provide a
if we were to contribute a commentary on this, the status
quo. This is how this is what we will put forth. Like, yeah, based
on our principles, but nothing that we've said so far, is
Revelation based only, like all that we said so far is my kuleana.
Right? It's rationally comprehensible, that you get, it's
based on our principles. But these even these principles are all
rationally comprehensible. So they're not exclusive to
Revelation. Right? So we're not here advocating for lashes on
someone, right, which would be something that is Revelation
based, right? We're advocating and we're saying something that is
completely, rationally comprehensible. Now, what the
punishment would be, maybe we differ on that, because we do have
in Cydia, an issue with jail. Jail is not totally out of the picture.
Right. But we do have an issue with jail. Okay, because it does
upset other things and does a volume in another
in another sphere. But the thing, the issue is that I really see
that this makes total sense. And I don't know what the law is, but
you have a national registry, because apparently, this whole
thing is an epidemic and even in Muslim homes, okay. Even in Muslim
homes, it's an epidemic or in the country, you have a national
registry, where women can anonymously but with a connection
to their identity. Right? There has to be a connection because
once this number, how do you know 111 accusation from the next, you
need to know and she could she could repeat. Like if she was
accused on Monday, and then accused next Monday, she could
file it again, with all the details of the report, right. But
at some point, when they do an investigation, they've got to be
able to contact the witnesses. And they can keep her name anonymous
little time, but they need to have a way through social security
number or through some other way to contact the person say, hey,
it's been 10 years since you made your accusation in the past 10
years. 15 Other people have made accusations. So now we're coming
to privately. Nothing public, we will privately discuss your
allegations. Right in an interview. Okay, that is
completely in the sense, private, not going to go public. You're not
going to be asked to take the stand. Okay, if you remember that
doctor from Michigan, who he was the most disgusting one of the
gymnastics? Yeah, the gymnastics guy. I mean, his it was the same
thing. That's why I said all these guys have a pattern. Yeah. Then
they have a habit checker on the board. Right. Or he's doing a
checkup. He asked her to lay down on the on the board, whatever,
that the medical table, right? And then he goes on, and sometimes it
was like a 12 year old girl. The mom was right there. Right. The
mom was right there. But he had like a medical towel. And he's
like, I just have to check and make sure everything's okay. The
mom is right there. Okay, not the worst thing. And that was even the
parents even when the kids told them. Yeah, they shut them down.
Yeah, that's why I'm saying you you can't go to family on these
things. You just got to divide them. Right. You got to go to an
anonymous source of of agents. Yeah. So one point like, even with
that, right, I think there should be some kind of policy where
there's some sort of investigation even if it's one accuser, because
a lot of times you can find other types of evidence to prove right
like you know, so
certain medical things. I'm not sure the exact details, but there
are ways to prove it, that something happened. So I think as
soon as there's, you know, I'm not saying convicted, I automatically,
but there's got to be some middle path where, you know, someone
accuses Alright, let's hear you out, like what happened. And I'm
sure there's like all kinds of ways you can go about establishing
evidence. So, you know, not even waiting for a few to come out even
the first one, actually. And if you can find something, well,
that's a good point. Well, here's the thing. You know, one of the
things they could do is the reason I never put that is that when
there's an accusation like that, I think that in this theoretical
system that we've thought up
because they did the agency, okay, the national * abuse hotline, or
agency, whatever it is, that's what they got to create. They
should wait some time. Because if they pick up the next week, and so
we need to talk to you, that would tip him off of who's right
accused. Now, if that's a daughter or a stepdaughter, then he could
turn violent on right. So you got to I would say, you have to think
of that, we would have to think of that. Because
think about this. Why is no one talking? None of the women were
talking, they're afraid of something? Yeah. So if they're
afraid that the person will be will just get violent on them,
then you have to wait some period of time, well, then maybe you just
track what happens later. Because then if he gets violent, then
that's another, you know, that's something that he can get
convicted for. Well, so then, yeah, so then he'll get on that.
So then, I mean, like, as soon as the investigation happens, you
know, even after that, keep tabs like, see what's happening? You
know, and you keep that door open. So like, let's say he does get
violent on her. Right. Yeah. But they weren't able to establish
enough evidence. But you know, if he gets violent on her, maybe they
can find something, then no bruises, whatever it is, you know,
well, he'd be back to his record. Yeah. But then on that even if you
can't convict them on the on the sexual abuse, you convict them on
violence, and he's still well, but here's the thing, there are a lot
of other forms of violence that are not physical. And a lot of
these people, they do this right. And they'll put, turn the whole
family against them. All right. All right. So let's go. Can you go
to the questions, because they can't really see him? Yeah. So we
just, if we click on this, maybe, yeah. And you want to make a quick
point. Yeah. So for all the people out there who feel the need to be
Facebook move, these should really stop. You know, like you said
before, with people going out and saying, you know, you need four
witnesses this to even whatever, right? These things are very
intricate, and in depth. And this should be left to the specialists
in the field. As a community, we need to respect specialization and
you know, people need people really need to fear a lot and not
speak about the shitty or things that they don't know about. Yeah,
I mean, if you're if you're if you're aware of something in
Syria, you might be aware of a thing without being aware of
everything else. That's why you have to have some kind of peer
discussion on these things. Now set them up, but it says referring
to the story of the kid with the reddish hair. Was this men and
women given punishment? They weren't there was no evidence, but
they were separated. Okay? Extending this into the modern day
situation can evidence from, okay, rate is different from Zina, it's
a different crime. You don't need four witnesses for rate. It's a
different crime. Okay. It is a different crime.
Secondary evidence yet may it could be secondary evidence could
be enough. Yeah, I would have to look into the books of fifth on
that. But Zina and * are different. The issue of * has
to do with safety. The issue of Zina has to do with public
decency, right? So someone said, Oh, what's the point of the for
instance, because the crime against society is not what two
people do, there isn't a loan. It's when they're doing, they're
so open and so public about it, that they're corrupting society,
like *, where they want everyone to see this, they are so
loose about it, that they're doing that penetration is witness of all
right, can be witnessed by themselves, or by four people.
Okay, so that's it's an issue of public indecency. All right, so
are beyond public indecency, corruption of the public.
So that's why * and Zina are two separate crimes. All right, it
says
in terms of family would have form of sexual education be necessary.
We have heard people who said that children should be taught No means
no. But for our own community, what are the parameters for us to
have the discussion with our kids about dignity, *, the rights of
men and women in their respective relationships? Don't get hung up
if you have you do you have to teach this stuff? The a couple of
things. I mean, once people get older, in the family, they have to
be taught to keep their hands on their cell to themselves certain
Things
should stop being things right? Like certain cousins, for example,
and what they do with their younger cousins. What do you have
a 17 and a seven year olds? Right? Well, I mean, you got to learn to
people have to learn to have limits, and the ematic is in
medically fit. You know that after two years old, you can't touch a
girl. So like, if there's a six year old neighbor, I can't go give
her a hug. Right? I can't look at her on the back. Two years old. In
the medical school, you can't touch a girl. Unbelievable if it's
not your daughter or your niece, okay. And this idea of oh, we're
just have cousins as well. Well, how do we know that that? I'm sure
this stuff happens with cousins all the time? Because it doesn't
mean that they have no desire for one another. I mean, who said
that? So that is that is an issue as well as the Soraka.
Shake out there as the Serato, if you have anything to add to this,
because this is sort of one of those discussions where FIP is
involved. Right. I don't know if you've heard much, but
it's one of those things that if you have something to say, please
do say it. Right, and share it. We're talking basically here about
for those just joining,
what in our perspective, from the education of the city, what would
we put forth?
And Hamza, what is the law right now? On this issue, you know, on
sexual abuse? Yeah. I don't know what the law is. But obviously,
it's not good enough. Yeah, I mean, I'm telling you, I mean, the
suggestion I'm making here, to me, it makes a lot of sense. Yeah.
Well, basically, like, for any, for any criminal charge or
anything, you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, you get to go
beyond an 8% chance, which is a very insurmountable barrier when
it comes to things like sexual abuse. So unless you have 18, or
20. Yeah, exactly. Unless you have, what's your watch? Yeah,
something crazy like that. I don't know the specifics of the Harvey
Weinstein Weinstein situation. Well, one of the things about
Harvey Weinstein is he's not even pleading innocent. I'm not Yeah,
the thing is about a lot of these guys like Matt Lauer didn't, he
didn't plead that he was innocent. The guy the Michigan gymnastics,
whatever, the physician, he never pled that he was he pled guilty.
I don't think he wants he pled that he was innocent, right? He
didn't plead innocent. So once these numbers rack up, right, you
still have a problem. And that's what you pointed to was like,
well, that means a guy knows that he has like up to 10. Right.
Right. So there has to be some kind of pressure put on a person,
that he should be given a message that you're now being observed in
a sense and not obviously not you were on that something's going on.
Okay. While the identity of the people making the allegations is
protected, okay. So he will obviously know who's ratting him
out. Right. So I think we might have skipped over we skipped on
what kind of data driven Waleed Reza is saying
it because one of the brother.
I don't call it he's just trolling.
What is he saying? They're like in a little conversation. Okay. Yeah.
You're being monitored. Yeah. Yeah. Basically, we got we got
more to monitor.
Yeah, basically, the idea is if you got if you got reported in
this registry, yeah. And
then at some point, you get a phone call. Right? You get a call
to your to you get a call or a visit. I mean, a visit that would
be too many it'd be like 100 million people getting visits in
America. Right. You got to get a communique goes direct circuit
straight to you not in the mail that anyone else could open.
straight to you. Okay, without anyone knowing. Right? You have
been basically a report it right. This is the report. Okay.
And I think people will start taking the issue seriously. Right,
this will probably create a lot of jobs, this registry because
apparently this is a massive epidemic. And we apparently have a
seriously disgusting. Okay. Well, that's what we're saying. What
I'll do is I'm gonna say or people could file complaints. That's what
we're saying. We're saying the woman can
files a complaint without her name, just like a number or some
other identity thing that later on if they need to contact her, they
could contact her. She files the report. Okay. And then it's there.
And then you start monitoring after that.
I think there's also another thing that people neglect to speak
about, and it's kind of like a big elephant in the room. And it's,
it's an issue of the culture here where you know, people go
going to bars and you know, different parties and stuff. And
there's all this alcohol and all this free mixing and all of this,
you know, all these sexual actions happening. And people don't know
where the line is, people get a little bit drunk, and then things
happen. Right? Yeah, that definitely contributes to a lot of
it. Like, where are these things happening out? In many cases?
These kinds of places. And, you know, also if that was cut out to
I think a lot of these cases, even with the whole thing with
Kavanaugh, look, where were these things happening? Parties? Yeah.
All right. I'll call it always involves. Well, here. Okay, here's
a question. What are others saying this could also be abused? Yeah,
it can be abused. That's what we're saying. But that's not going
to be a conviction. Just doing one. There's not gonna be a
conviction on one thing, right. You can't even convict on three.
You need a beyond a shadow of a doubt. Right. So you're, if it's
Mottola to, like 20 separate people, right. And over time, they
will probably come up with a number, whatever. Alright.
Who's this? Alonzo Alfred magnifico, who is the handsome man
on the right. wearing headphones. You got an admirer? Shout out
Arsalan. Do you know this person? Yeah. So my friends. Alright, so
listen. So you're not going to have a conviction on one, you're
not going to have a conviction on two. But and just the idea that
this agency this agent calls or contacts the person says you had a
complaint filed against you. That's not an accusation. It's not
even an accusation, a legal accusation. It's not a
prosecution. It's just you're now being informed that you have a
record. And maybe that would, you know, put the guy on watch. Now,
many people conflate complaints with conviction. Yeah, that's
that's, like that's an issue. That's like all this conversation
about even though you have to have four witnesses to even be able to
say something like that. That's, I feel like that's an issue that I
feel people need to distinguish in their mind. Now, another question,
can these things be proved through like DNA testing? And other
things? Well, here's, I'm not sure about going back in the past, I
don't know if you can, well, I'm, we're listed. Oh, here's the thing
like today. Like if it happened, like six months ago, like, Hi,
what are you gonna? So what if that happens? Like, like that
second, right. Like, are there things that can be done? Well,
they're medically speaking, you would have to have a specific type
of DNA? Because, for example, if it's a stepfather, right, you
know, how easy it is to get a piece of his DNA, like a nail
clipping or a piece of hair, right? would be sufficient. So
that won't work. But I would say, yeah, if she has an issue, she
should come forth with her thing and send everything that she
possibly could, right. And then if you can prove it using that, yeah,
then you just keep that in a file. Okay. Keep that in a file. And and
then you see what happens over time. All right. So I've kind of
been what he says issue with DNA is what is the guy accused? Oh,
okay. I say listen, listen.
The accusations.
But then isn't there a way to see if he was violently going in?
Isn't there a way to see if he was violently going in on her?
I just think I'm not sure to what extent these things are like, I
know, like, I just don't know anything. You look, you can look
at like traces of like injuries. Yeah, I'm looking at the most
impossible type of sexual abuse to prove, right. Who are these fools
that you guys are friends with?
Cilantro, Alfred magnificant. Just the name. I'm not even reading
this.
himself after
anything's he's magnificent. He wants to talk about McGregor.
We're talking about something serious. And this, this guy has
given some dopey comments. And we're talking about a serious
topic. So this dope over here is talking about Khabib and McGregor.
Is that Is this serious or what? I don't know. I think it was
appropriate. But we can go back to
the slide that are we talking about? Oh, he I think he is
serious. No, I don't think he's trolling. He's trolling from an
Islamic person. Because I mean, he's being dopey. We're trying to
talk about a serious subject. And he's asked about, alright, we'll
get to your McGregor thing, because I don't even know what
happens in the first place. But we'll get to that in a second. But
we're talking about something serious here, which is that we're
trying to come up with ideas, and where did these ideas come from?
Okay. So, where do these he's not trolling.
or cilantro says he's not trolling.
The whole account is a troll if it's named after a salad.
Okay.
Anyway, let's get to let's get back to the issue here, which is
that
what I'm looking at is the least most easy to hide. type of sexual
abuse, right? Groping right. A guy groups a woman, okay.
Impossible. There's no evidence
So she I'm not if there's no eye witnesses, but yeah, so that's
what I'm saying. I'm taking that and saying, Well, yeah, you could
eventually, if this guy has received complaints, this many
complaints from women who don't know each other, right? It'll take
years. Right? But it's something is better than nothing. It'll take
years, but you will eventually have something. So I am. That's
your idea. I guess we're not we're not going to find the solution on
a podcast. But I did an idea to throw it. Yeah. I mean, how to
implement that. Who knows, but it's hard. It's it's just
something that seems like it's coming. I wish we had Alex here
too, to give us his take. Alright, so now let's look at what some of
these other people are saying. But quick point, I think it is
important that we do initiate the discussion, at least it's
something I think that's important or take the issue seriously, and
in practicality, it's important to take accusers seriously. So let's
start. Let's take a look at some questions here. Lavon. Brown says
one must keep in mind context, there are demographics of the
population that are already profiled and monitored for crimes.
There must be a watchdog to ensure that such things don't you know,
okay. Now he's saying the pattern of racism. Now, here's the thing.
That's why I'm saying that the idea of accusers being people who
don't know one another strengthens the case. Right. Right.
Strengthens the case. Yeah. Well, I think what he's talking about is
your ideas, creating like a registry. Yeah. And the discretion
on whether to prosecute or not to take action would lie with the
government. Yeah, it wouldn't lie with the individuals whose work
yeah, so it so what he's sort of what he's talking about, I think,
is if the government decides that, okay, we we're gonna take this
threat more seriously, because it's a white girl, accusing a
black guy? Well, well, here's the thing. Well, here's the thing. You
have anonymity. You don't know anything about the accuser, you
have like a number. Obviously, they could look it up, right.
Yeah, but that's what I'm saying you have a type of anonymity,
because you want to remove as many bias factors as possible, right?
You want to remove all those as possible. So
to the agent, he gets a number, right? He sees a number, he
doesn't see that whether it's a rich person or a poor person.
So all right now colored, been worried resists as long as of
course, yeah, we know that. That's why we have the organization.
Right. But
I'm not being facetious. But yeah, that's easy to say, well, it's
alcohol, obviously, is the problem. And the dean, yes, of
course, we know that. Well, I think in a perfect situation, we
could flush a lot of things out a lot better in the entire system
was right. And here's the thing, he's right about this, because
he's saying we should we should look at what we have in our shed.
Yeah. And so many of so many people out there, right.
When you when you ask the question, well, what does Allah
and His messenger say about this? That's what he's right about. They
should have some more confidence because especially and you're in
the fields, right? People, Muslims in law, right? They oftentimes
have a very, like, almost low opinion. Right? Am I right about
that? What do you mean? Oh, sure. Yeah, they like either are very
ignorant on it. Or they actually view it as something to be
embarrassed about. Yeah, yeah. With a very arrogant because
people aren't, are adding anyone who's embarrassed ignorance. And
don't know the power of like, and the expansiveness of the system
that we have, because in reality, it's far superior to, to the
American legal system. And we got to keep in mind, if you take out
fun while you take out alcohol, you take so many things. I mean,
that takes the percentage of things a lot lower. So then the
amount of things to sift through becomes a lot less and easier to
Yeah, I totally think that in, in families, like big families,
the issue of Qatar has to be observed. I don't care who it is
that say if it's your no matter who it is, when you have people
who are almost defenseless, they have to observe that it's got to
be observed. The issue of Qatar and masajid our whole Masjid is
CCTV. The whole Masjid. Yeah, that's smart, easy to be. Even my
dad's office we have we have a camera. Yeah, always playing.
Because you don't know what can happen. Yeah, you have to take
your precautions and you just never know what happened. Although
I do think it's important for discussions like this. Yeah. To
like to have female input. Because like we like a lot of times as
men, we can be turned off to a lot of things. Not sure there might be
some things that we overlook and and like societal barriers, even,
like, for example, like we may think that it was so easy to come
forward with like, an allegation or an accusation or Well, why are
they not coming forward? So what's going on? So there's clearly like
issues that they being different from us because they can they feel
differently? Well, 100% they have to have demand the
and
We're just working with like what we have, which is most
analyzer skill? Yeah. On a larger scale. And the thing is that, and
we're looking at it from a legal perspective, right, which is, I
guess universal, right? Because that's just the law. Right? And
how would you prosecute? How would you go after someone? And what
kind of evidence is and that's all he could find? Is that until what
sort of evidence? All right, so now you want to go on another
topic now?
Let's see what your salad wants to say here. Okay. So watching, I
don't know and assaulting him. So
do you believe could be his actions were an appropriate
response to McGregor? I really don't know when I didn't see it.
So I didn't see it.
But what did he do? He beat up some of these guys. No. So
basically, what was situation was Conor McGregor is a major trash
talker. Yeah. So in the entire lead up to the fight Connor and
his team, they insulted like insulting to be put his family,
his religion, all this kind of stuff. And like it's trash talk.
It's not necessarily personal. But for a guy like Kobe where he comes
from, it's more like Joe Rogan actually said it when the
competition fight, he said is men were the kind of person he is. For
him. It's about honor. So his he felt his honor was attack in
repeatedly attacked, and he thought he'd have to take action
later on. So he said it wasn't the best best idea to do that.
See, the thing is, I viewed the whole thing of him going out and
punching someone in the crowd. I loved it. I viewed that as great
theater. That is so great. It's from UFC, I'm happy, right? Yeah.
They're making money. They're not losing loving Father this ad.
Okay, here's a question from Lavon, or a statement. He's saying
gender segregation is an effect of morality.
Okay, this also can be taken to extremes. Also in the society,
gender segregation, without the proper education, raising a
morality can breed its own other deviant trends? Well, here's what
I'm saying. There are two ways you can do gender segregation, you
could do it completely segregated, which I think is going to be
unhealthy. Because it's too odd, right? Or you could just casually
separate, which means that if you have a gathering,
that females are eating in one area, and the males are eating
another, right, but we're living in America, and it's 2018 ship, I
mean, that gender segregation is like, all right, it's not there's
nothing unnatural. There's nothing like if a non Muslim walks in,
because I was looking at, let's say, how we have an NBC, I always
want it to be that anyone could walk off the street.
A random person and a scholar could walk off the street, the
person that comes off the street won't feel that this is so odd and
bizarre. And the scholar at the same time will also not see them
anymore has happened.
Things happening. So that's how I tried to look at it because
you have to be almost seamless. I don't really believe. I think
that's not healthy to have a completely
completely different culture in your places of worship. And your
home. Your workplace. Right. There needs to be some differences,
obviously. But
there should be it should be somewhat seamless.
Murad says we have separate bathrooms. Well, not anymore.
That's the problem. I mean, it's not it's true in some of the
schools now they're they have signs. I mean, you could use
whatever math you want. But obviously, I know what he's
talking about them. Yeah. All right. I think that's it. Are we
done? I think we're done. I don't think that
anyone else has anything to say here. So
hums Do you have anything to say? No. You're good to go?
Yeah, I think I'm good to go. Alright, so I think we covered
basically what I wanted to cover. And Alright, here's the last
question. Mahmoud Fateh says you should have every accusation of
* without any substantial evidence should be taken
seriously. Then what's the protection of the Cydia for men?
We're not taking, like we said, we went over this that
making a filing a report is nothing other than a report. It's
not a conviction. It's not an accusation, like legally speaking.
It's an accusation from the victim side. But that's why we're saying
it would take a lot it would take repetition, right? If all you have
is he said she said, then all you have to make any form of
accusation or conviction is repetition. So the way or is
numbers. So the way forward is to find a system where you can gather
these numbers right
That's all we're saying. And like I said, Well, how do you know that
people aren't lying? Same thing? Because you see that there are
different. Well, we have to have a system, right? Yeah, it can't be
like where nobody comes in and says anything like, we have a
system in place where it can sift through what's true and what's
not. Yeah, that's all we're saying here. Yeah. All right. So
Shabana says, How is a woman supposed to prove this? Okay,
yeah. What if it's just one person, that's the problem with
sexual abuse, because the accusation of one person is not
going to go anywhere in a court. That's the problem with sexual
abuse. And that's why this idea of this proposed registry is to
collect because what I believe and I think it's pretty much true is
that anyone who does this sexual abuse is repeat, right? They're
all repeat, do it. No one does something like that crosses that
barrier. Once you always go back to it. If you get away with it,
you go back to it. So because they don't know each other, you can
establish proof. Yeah. And moreover, saying how many numbers?
Well, you'll have to see that over time, the definition of what the
letter is so many that it's impossible that correct. So be a
be a case by case. So if it was just like, you know, those two
friends, well, it's possible that they conspired benefits to and one
is from Jersey and one is from another place, and they never had
elevates Exactly. So that changes so gentle that that changes, it
elevates his testimony. So you would have it almost be a case by
case basis, because like you said, for from for different parts of
the country is very different from for from the same place are the
same. Yeah. When the time is spread, right. Right. It elevates,
For from within one day is different from for over 10 years.
For in one day. He could have been drunk that day. It doesn't change
his guilt, right? But it elevates it. All right, if it's overtime,
so the answer to morada is, you will figure that out based on
other factors, you can't just pin it to a number. Okay. It can't
just be pinned to one number. Shabana says, so there would be a
registry created for all men on earth. How does this work? Well,
no, not on Earth. But per country? I'm telling you. Well, I mean, it
is it is, it is very feasible. We already have this registry. I
mean, everyone is registered in the country that they live in.
Okay. And if we care about the issue, then you sit you expend the
money to do it, right. Don't we care about the issue? I mean, how
much? How many millions do we spend on defense? I mean, you so
this is a violence on the inside of the country. He spent millions,
this thing deserves millions of dollars, right? To protect people
on the inside of the country. So we're not saying so every country
can do this. Right. And you haven't already this, like the
record already exists? Yeah. It's the police report. When you get
when you apply for a job and they do a background check. That's what
they're looking at. And right. So it's, it's already exists. It's
not. It's not that difficult. Yeah. So I mean, someone says,
don't know how I feel about more government? Well, we're talking
about in the context of like a security system, you need
security. I mean, you can't have no government at all, or you can't
have less government in every single way. So someone here is
saying he doesn't know how he feels about more government. Well,
then what do you propose? Do nothing, right.
All right, I've done this moody says, How do we balance and
reconcile between the need for witnesses as per Samak Sharia
versus the modern methods of DNA and other methods? We already we
did already address this. And we said that Zina and * are two
different crimes. That's the first thing, okay. And in other crimes,
secondary evidence is established as a source. And we gave the
example of proper use of de Sena. Zina, we said has to do with
corrupting the public. So we did mention it, but okay, we can
mention it again.
So the idea of sexual abuse being it has to be for witnesses, this
is not the case. Crimes, a lot of crimes don't need for witnesses to
have viewed the crime.
And when you look in the fifth box, if the swab is in a different
category than Zina Yeah, I mean, it's one has a victim and the
other one is two people coming together to do something. It's
totally different. It's a completely different crime and
sexual abuse is a completely different crime from Zina.
Okay, what are the saying? So it's statistical analysis. Yeah, there
will be some statistical analysis, this think about how Deeth is,
hadith is very much similar to this because it's testimony for
example, a young Narrator
A child almost taking from a senior ship, if they're both
trustworthy, that one Hadith by itself will still be suspect. If a
if a reliable narrator took at the age of six years old, from a chef
who was at 90 years old. Right? That link itself is has commentary
upon it, because of their ages. Okay? Even if Bo
They were turned out to in their prime were completely trustworthy.
So there is statistical analysis, there's age, there's distance,
there's location, there's the time between the accusations. So
there's a lot of a lot of different things. And I'm telling
you, we worry about the enemy from the outside. What about the enemy
from the inside? So this thing does deserve to be almost like a
wink? Right? Whatever.
Internal Security, like Homeland Security is a division that was
created after 911. Okay, to make sure that there is no terrorist
attack happening, happening on the land? Well, this thing to me, it
would seem to me if I was if I was running a country, let's say I was
thinking of a country
that to have the people be secure in my country, that's my pride.
Right? So I would want them I would, I would spend what it needs
to not have an epidemic like this happening, right? And yeah,
there's gonna be teaching on the inside. But from the outside,
externally speaking, you're going to have
there has to be some kind of force, some kind of agency,
something breathing down the neck of anyone who is accused of this,
right until you find enough data to actually look at this. And like
they say, in America, they say, ask 100 People at the bar, right?
You get enough data and you look at this, you're like, there's
something going on here. Right? There's something going on here.
Because you look over time, you'll look people who don't know each
other. And you look at this and you realize that something's going
on.
Credit says What if they're all influenced by feminism?
I think due to the hyper ideology and partisanship that exists,
government intervention may not work. It's gotta eat nothing else
can can enforce law except the government. How would you deal
with a verbal abuse? This is normally where it starts. What
would you recommend for that verbal abuse? In terms of the
perspective I'm looking at, which is the perspective of law and
order, right? Speech? There are very few crimes, right? Speech is
very few crimes like slander, which which one is written libel
is if it's in writing, slander, and then hate speech, right, even
though it's very hard to punish, it's very hard to punish those. So
I would say that, yeah, it does start at speech. But I don't think
that the law can, can because one of the proofs of that is that even
in the Quran, is that we know the story that Prophet Dodaj s&m was
worshipping in his in his room. And then two men appeared behind
him to farmers, he turned around. And he said, I this is my partner
here. This is my neighbor. He has 99
animals, I have one animal. And then he yelled at me. Right? And
he braided me to give me the one. Right? Then don't profits, I would
say they said I'm judged immediately. And he said, most he
has wronged you by asking for the animal, right?
And most associates these days are corrupt. And then all of a sudden
they vanished and disappeared. Then profit don't realize that
there are angels that came to test him, and then he prostrated and he
made Toba for that judgment. Why? Because it is not a crime to ask
for a camel or an animal. Right? It's not a crime. He made it
instinctive. And he didn't ask the other person what happens? We
learn a lot from the story. Okay. He didn't ask what the accused.
What happened?
Even if the if the guy says yes, I did do that. Where's the crime
asking is not a crime. So now in Islam, yeah, we have things to say
in Sharia in the sight of Allah. Yeah, there are things to say
about verbal abuse. However, the law cannot get into verbal abuse.
And even where there is such accusations it's very hard to
to prosecute does. Is there anything in the Sharia
about verbal abuse and what happens in that case?
What's out so from a shutout perspective? Yeah. Is that
something that would be like fined or anything? Or would Is there any
cut out on that? I've never heard that there's anything other than
something with sin between you and Allah to either if you break
someone, right, okay. Yeah.
Subject questions. Yeah. All right. So kinda it's still he
still wants no government. I have to think more on this in a vacuum.
I would love government to do what you propose. But fill in the
drawing with color and context. Where we are I have my doubts. All
right. I mean, I
trust me, you're gonna see the this idea. I don't trust the US
government's
I mean, to me, I don't even say the US government and yeah, we're
just, you know, systems, you don't have any branches of government,
or do you think like they're a monolith? It's like when someone
says, oh, Muslims are this Jews or that, you know, the US government
is not monolithic, right? The US government has composed of human
beings, some of whom are ethical, some of whom are not, and many of
whom are in between. Right. So just the idea of in political
discussion, to talk about to say the word, the government, it
really betrays ignorance, to be honest with you, right? Because
it's there's so many
millions and 1000s of millions of people. And today's roll call of
who works for the US government in 10 years is going to be 70%
Different anyway. Right, from the highest offices to the lope, to
the to the lowest offices in the US government. So to me, I really
think that anytime we say the US government, the whole statement
has to be thrown out.
He says, You're what we talked about today, are we talking about
a specific method? No, these are all and most of these principles
that we're talking about. They're derived from the principles of the
mahadi theme, because the Hadith scholars are the ones who had to
deal with which testimony should we act? Should we act upon? What
Hadith Should we take action upon? So the principles that I'm looking
here at here, you mostly will find them in the books of Jericho
Chaddy and the biographies of Jeff pachadi are so amazing because you
read these biographies and then you find a point that is
you know, sticks out, such as what I just said about someone who
upright scholar who cites from another upright scholar, both of
them are completely upright, but the link of the two of them won't
be exempted right? Because of the age difference for example
things like that
all right, last question we'll take your is how do you get rid of
WESA you would just ignore it once was and it may be psychological
may need to get treatment psychological treatment, but in
Syria we just ignore it we call it Miss Duncan shuck someone who is
literally connected or married to doubt or to doubt or vice versa.
Then at that point, a person should just ignore it and continue
his sulla or will do but
should ignore the West was so let's stop here does that Kamala
Cara Monique a lot more we haven't taken a share the one La La Land
and stuff with a bunch of where they called us in Santa Fe Of
course. A little Edina Mo and Minnesota had to Ottawa so but
halfwords also the southern set up
caught everything I think we got it I think we got him some
important things to
hope the audio was good. Yeah.