Shadee Elmasry – NBF 180 Orientalism and the Historical Critical Method w Yakoob Ahmed

Shadee Elmasry
AI: Summary ©
The speakers discuss the history and importance of history in shaping behavior and culture, emphasizing the need for evidence-based decisions and the "people" of history as themes for discussion. They also touch on the "ops and confusion" of Islam'sn't the right way" and "arogous culture" themes, as well as the "ops and confusion" of "ops and confusion" of "people" of history and "arogous culture" themes. The speakers also mention the "ops and confusion" of "ops and confusion" of "people" of history and "arogous culture" themes and encourage caution when watching TV or movies. Finally, they discuss the "ops and confusion" of "ops and confusion" of "people" of history and "arogous culture" themes and encourage caution when watching TV or movies.
AI: Transcript ©
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It was salam ala Rasulillah. While he was on be human Well, welcome

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everybody to the Safina society nothing but facts live stream

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where we are filming today under unique circumstances from the New

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Brunswick Islamic centre back room with our guests. Dr. Yaku Ahmed

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duck Yaqoob Ahmed is a history professor at Istanbul University.

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He's a fellow graduate from the School of Oriental and African

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Studies. And today, he's going to be talking to us about the

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historical critical method, which is a methodology in assessing

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facts from fiction, right? Regarding the sources. Now, let me

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give you a summary. I like Jonathan brown summary in his book

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here, Hadith, where he talks about one of the biggest differences

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between the Muslims approach towards history, and the Europeans

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approach towards history is that the Muslims approach towards

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history, it starts from the past, and it was critical from the get

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go, and it passed on.

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And because it was so critical from the get go, a lot of trusts

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was established over time. In contrast, this was not the case

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for the early Catholic history or Christian history. As a result of

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that, around the time of the Renaissance, people started

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realizing, Wait a second, we were duped.

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The donation of Constantine was a fraud. Trinity verse itself was a

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fraud. So much of the origin of the core of our origins was a

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fraud. So the critical aspect of the history started, way later,

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like we're talking 1500 years after the origins of Christianity,

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right.

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The result of that is that the default starting point of anyone

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with a brain, anyone with a critical method, or critical

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approach is distrust.

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In the origins of religious history, that is a massive

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difference. And that's what informs the mindset, and the

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mentality of the critical historian towards resource or

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origins of religious histories, or any past histories is distrust,

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you're being duped. And that never goes away. So when they take it to

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Islam, they apply it everywhere they apply the same thing is very

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actually uncritical, because you're taking my life story and

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applying it to your life, your life, your life. Yeah, that means

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if my dad abused me, while I look at you, and you, oh, he must be

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abused, you must be abused, you must be abused.

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That's such an important starting point. And from there, I'm going

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to give the mic over to Dr. Yaqoob. To expand on what I've

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been saying here. Does it sound like?

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Okay, so this is an interesting point that you begin with, because

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I want to just explain some of the challenges I had as a Muslim in

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Western academia, which was the fact that, as you mentioned, Dr.

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Shadi, one of the interesting things is there is an assumption

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by placing Islam with all the other religions, that it's a one

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size fits all rule, that every every experience is the same

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experience, that Islam is just like Christianity, and all of

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these religions are the same. And actually, this secular, secular

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religious tradition I use that deliberately,

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is somehow a referee, that can sort of like judge every other

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religious tradition in a way that a judge Christianity. And this is

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an interesting point, because when we were when I was teaching once,

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in, in Turkey, when we spoke about the Abrahamic faiths, and within

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the framework of academia, even that had a sort of like,

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internalized idea in which Christianity was at the top, and

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Islam was at the bottom, a sort of hierarchy. And so what happened

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with even within that framework, was like Islam was being judged

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and compared to a another religious tradition. And so it was

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being scrutinized in the same way, not recognizing that Islam has his

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own tradition. It has his own tradition of scholarship,

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scrutiny, and the way that I was looking at the sources, right. And

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what was intriguing is when I noticed many of my Muslim

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colleagues and friends, who are doing PhDs, by the way, that those

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of them who didn't have a interaction with the religious

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tradition themselves, those of them who were not aware of the

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robustness of their own tradition, those of them who were not aware

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of an alternative tradition of critical thinking, often started

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to have a crisis in faith. Because they were all they didn't

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understand their own faith, actually. And this was intriguing

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because a lot of people criticize

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people who did religious scholarship, and I noticed that

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people had a religious training when they came into the field of

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Islamic studies. They were cleaning up house. Right. So I

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mean, they would get shocked. They said, it's just the state of

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academia. Is this how they speaking about us? Yeah.

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It is really, because what you notice is actually the academic

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tradition in of itself, that we're looking at in terms of Western

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academia is only about 100 200 years old. How old is Islamic

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tradition? 1400 years. So in that sense, there's a depth to the

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tradition that we have, and from the inception, and as Jonathan

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mentioned, in terms of Hadith literature, in particular, the

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type of scrutiny the Allameh do in regards to handwriting, in terms

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of in terms of biographies, in terms of the isnaad. In terms of

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context, it's all there from the beginning. And that sort of

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holistic understanding of evidences was, there was a culture

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around it, and it was a plurality. So when we say Allama, for

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example, are the most interesting because it's a plural term. And we

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use it as a plural. And what is important about why I'm explaining

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it's a plural, because no single one person could corrupt or

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compromise, an idea about Islam without not being second guessed,

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or second judge or critique by somebody else, you know what I

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mean? You couldn't get away with it. So there was a form of

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pluralism within the Muslim world. And when this tradition from its

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inception is emerging, so I explained this that one of the

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intriguing things about Islam is both the oral tradition and the

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written tradition, simultaneously, were being developed at this at

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the same time, right? If, and that's the robustness. And so that

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whole, sort of like culture in the way that we self identify, there's

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no weakness here. There's a strength here, it comes from that

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position. And because there's an absence in understanding the

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tradition, on many occasions, and over emphasizing the sort of

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arrogance, and yet insecurity of Western academia, you start to see

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when Muslims go into academia having this problem, let me let me

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bring this up, though, for the audience that is maybe not aware

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of some of the basics here.

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Transmitted knowledge, the assessment of transmitted

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knowledge is a rational enterprise, meaning journalism,

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history, Hadith, essentially, it's the same thing. I want to know if

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the person telling me this information, the only source of

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information is you telling me now I have to make sure that this is

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verified. Okay. So each every historical methodology may have a

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presupposition. So the presupposition of Islam, there's

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only one really one presupposition, which is that the

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Sahaba are not like

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that first original generation is established by the Quran that they

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don't there, you can accept them. From there, everybody else can be

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interrogated. Alright, the presupposition of the Renaissance,

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critical thinkers is that

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people of the past are lying to you,

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but be questioned.

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Because there's so many. Yeah, the basis of the companions not

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telling lies is that they confirmed each other through TOA.

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And they may have not known each other, they may have not

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even seen each other some companions. So there is a rational

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component to the companions to now, here's a question, what are

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the essential presuppositions

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of the Western tradition?

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Okay, that's a big question, aside from what I said is that they look

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at the past with suspicion, or there was all historical critical

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methods should be the same. They shouldn't be the same. I think

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what I've noticed, and this is why I wanted to raise the idea of

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secularism is that within it, there's an ingrained assumption

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about the religious tradition in the way to look at a religious

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tradition. And so it's already orientated, the writer or the

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thinker of rejecting certain things, and accepting certain

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things. And so you get narrowed down as a thinker in terms of the

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possibilities of how you can think so this sounds strange, but

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there's an assumption that it's just one form of rationality,

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which is the Western form of rationality, there isn't actually

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I mean, rationality universally is the same. So I remember must offer

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somebody a friend who was an alien with the Ottoman Empire, saying,

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The Beauty of rationality is the rationality of Adam Alayhis Salam

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is no different than the rationality of me. And so we can

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both come to the same conclusion that Allah exists, that is

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universal, every single human being has that that is a

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necessity. And by using that form of rationality, you can understand

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that there is a Creator and you are created. But if you bypass

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that, if your form of rationality just rejects that first question,

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and it comes down to a point where that first question is irrelevant,

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and you you have a disposition, where in your idea of rationality,

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that religion is irrelevant, or religion is backwards, or

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religion, all religions are the same or it reduces things

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naturally, then when you start to look at traditions, you're already

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looking at the tradition from a restricted, restricted river lens.

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Exactly.

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And one of the things that you highlighted which is important,

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which is most of history is narrative. Yeah. Its narrative

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when when you look at the footnotes, very rarely do people

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scrutinize the footnotes in the way that we have the ISNA

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tradition and we scrutinize those footnotes. Footnotes. I mean, it's

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amazing when when people pick up a book, right, they automatically

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assume great amount of thought. And, and when there is footnoting.

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I mean, a footnote, really just one link. Well, where did that

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footnote get his source from? Where did they get that source

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from? So what you said earlier, I want to summarize for everybody is

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that rationality is the same universally. So if I went to

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Japan, 5000 years ago, if I went to Australia 4000 years ago with

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Aboriginal people, if I went to Europe, 3000 years ago, Africa

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2000 years ago, and I went to the Middle East, 1000 years ago,

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Native Americans 500 years ago, you think a family, someone comes

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in and says, there's a predator outside, be careful, right? Don't

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go out today. Even though you need food and water, don't go out

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because there's a wild predator running around.

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You're asking me to do something pretty big to stay in my little

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hut. And I need food. So immediately, we have to verify

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that what you're saying is right, what if you're a competing

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fisherman, right? What if you're competing

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Hunter.

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Every human being has the same thinking towards verifying this.

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So the historical method really should be the same. And let me

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tell you why. In Islam, there's a

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early Islamic history there was a a stronger a finer filter

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and be that there was actually more diversity in Islam then there

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is an Orientalism number one

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the Muslims are checking God's word and the prophets word people

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can go to * if you make a mistake.

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Nowhere very few other places is * on the line. This is why the

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New York Times could publish stuff that for us would be like if this

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was a religious fatwah who would never if this was a religious

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transmission would never pass.

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Iraq has weapons of mass destruction. Okay, where's your

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Senate? Go back to one person? Okay, who is that person? Unknown?

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Right? What would they call him some? They had a name for this

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person, right? The New York Times D bet the supposedly top rated

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institution for transmitting news to us transmitted to us, it Hadith

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that was had number one.

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And MOBE number two MOPA means hidden hidden source number to one

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source. And that was the justification for a war. Of

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course, the war was gonna happen anyway. But that was the educated

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populace is okay, at least in our time said right.

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Secondly,

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there is a great amount of diversity amongst the Muslims in

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accepting the Hadith of the prophets of Allah who it was

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sending them namely, what is so here to one is not to the another

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a very simple example. Even a medic did not accept at all the

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line that says birds with claws that prohibiting predatorial

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animals and birds with claws, Chef as accepted as words of the

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Prophet.

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The medic, he say the medic said no, birds with claws was an

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analogy given by the transmitter. So we have a great diversity

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that have the Hadith proof of being all the books on weak Hadith

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fabricate Hadith, so maybe you could talk about that. It's

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oftentimes painted, the picture is painted that Muslim just accept

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whatever the Prophet said, as long as you can string some names in a

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chain. But we actually are more diverse. Will you go to the

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Western

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tradition? It's almost like there's agreement that all Hadith

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with the exception of Harold masky and Jonathan Brown, right. There's

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like agreement across the board had either all unreliable. What a

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coincidence. The lands of the colonizers their scholars bring us

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a conclusion that destroys Islam from within within like what a

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coincidence. You don't find that with the with the Muslims with the

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Muslims they interrogated. They discarded so many Hadees Imam

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Ahmed have been humble said he memorized 1 million Hadith which

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means chains a million chains of all Hadith that cannot ever be

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relied upon. Before he started studying the ones he could be

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reliable. So if you can expand on the diversity of of

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Hadith acceptance, what wasn't true, that's a really valid point.

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It's not. First let's look at the Sahaba themselves. So when a

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hadith was heard by Sahaba, so forth, he was cross examined even

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by themselves themselves. So you can see in the Hadith literature

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of like did or so some say these are not that

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You can see into Hadith literature at times, some Sahaba saying he

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didn't some say not so much. So what you realize is even in that

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community at the time, from the inception, the culture is already

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established in that way. And that's important. Because why?

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Because they are scrutinizing the evidence because they it's a live

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tradition. They live in traditions right upon it, and there's heaven.

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Right? Totally. And this is another valid point you made about

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the idea of punishment and the consequences, which is the life

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said history before that, when I'm writing as an academic, even now,

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today, I'm concerned, because of the culture of Islam that I come

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from, there are consequences in the way I write an idea of feeling

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a sense of accountability beyond the human accountability, beyond

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feeling sense of shame, or, or ego, so forth means you scrutinize

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the evidence is fervor. And you give a sense of leeway. And so

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when we look at the Allama, as you said, they looked at it

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linguistically, they looked at it within context, they looked at

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when it was revealed, they looked at who was in the chain, they

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looked at the possibility of this. So they take they took everything

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into consideration and even debated about it. It was

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intriguing, on some matters, they came to a consensus, and some

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mattresses said, there could be a difference of opinion here, and so

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on and still provided a particular form of flexibility. And even now,

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today, this Muslim community is equally as robust, is equally as

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diverse, is equally as plural. And it looks at the evidence is in

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exactly the same way. And that's what I think people don't

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recognize and don't appreciate, in terms of how we do it is in terms

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of academia, what I find interesting, and Muslims do this

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all the time, they'll say, History says this. What do you mean,

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History says, What does that mean? What does that statement mean? And

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they take the idea that a book that they've taken from the shelf

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in a bookshop, written by an academic is a matter of fact.

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And for me, as a historian, I said, What did you scrutinize

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that, but it's written by an academic. And what's intriguing is

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they dismiss their own tradition, without even looking at it. And

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they don't scrutinize the books that they read in on equal weight.

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So in the past, as you made the point about, I think, the idea of

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all his existence is important. First, the fact that the the

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Sahaba and ulama, were aware that there was a particular form of

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judgment that will be paused, which makes it stops you from

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being disingenuous. That's a presupposition, right, we don't

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negotiate. Right. So as I told you, before, I was in an academic

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forum, and one of the academics choking me said it, but I believe

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that that was an intention, which is one of the great things about

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writing history is that people are dead, so they can't defend

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themselves. And that made me nervous. And I said, Actually, one

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of the concerns I have as a Muslim writing history, is because they

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can't defend themselves. And they were holding me accountable in the

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eyes of Allah to Allah. So you can see that in terms of this, like

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critical method, that actually, the way that we use the critical

00:17:59 --> 00:18:03

method comes from the culture of Hadith literature, actually comes

00:18:03 --> 00:18:07

from the culture of the way that we critique Hadith literature, the

00:18:07 --> 00:18:10

way that different scholars in different parts of the world. So

00:18:10 --> 00:18:13

when you look at like Imam, actually, Mr. Moto, really, there

00:18:13 --> 00:18:17

are different parts of the world. And yet they are more or less

00:18:17 --> 00:18:20

coming to similar conclusions and certain matters, because of the

00:18:20 --> 00:18:24

way that, you know, they they use in a methodology of coming to the

00:18:24 --> 00:18:26

text that there could be some nuances and methodology. But by

00:18:26 --> 00:18:30

and large, you know, you see a similarity. And that's what I find

00:18:30 --> 00:18:34

interesting. Well, let me ask you this. Let me ask you the question,

00:18:35 --> 00:18:37

that identity in history,

00:18:39 --> 00:18:40

if I'm looking at facts,

00:18:42 --> 00:18:46

what stops me? Why should there be any objection?

00:18:47 --> 00:18:51

If I'm solely looking at facts, what's the objection of me,

00:18:52 --> 00:18:56

documenting other people's history? Because we see that here

00:18:56 --> 00:19:01

that you made a point earlier in your tour this week, people should

00:19:01 --> 00:19:04

write their own histories. You people should tell their own

00:19:04 --> 00:19:06

story, you have the right to tell your story. Nobody has the right

00:19:06 --> 00:19:10

to go tell them. I would probably take offense if someone wrote a

00:19:10 --> 00:19:15

biography about my family. You don't even know us, right? So, but

00:19:15 --> 00:19:19

if that person comes, says, Wait, I'm just objectively writing,

00:19:19 --> 00:19:24

making history based upon what would be an objection to that. And

00:19:24 --> 00:19:28

the lead would be that that needs to be the objection to non Muslims

00:19:28 --> 00:19:32

writing Muslim history. But first we have to assess is the object

00:19:32 --> 00:19:33

what is the grounds of the objection?

00:19:35 --> 00:19:38

So the first point about facts is interesting. Because in Western

00:19:38 --> 00:19:43

academia, we play we place the idea of facts has been sacred. And

00:19:43 --> 00:19:48

that facts to some degree cannot be manipulated. Facts can be

00:19:48 --> 00:19:52

manipulated, because facts, in essence is just data that is then

00:19:52 --> 00:19:57

placed within an ideology and within a story, right. So before

00:19:57 --> 00:19:59

even understanding the idea of facts, it's

00:20:00 --> 00:20:03

important to teach the students the idea of ideology and

00:20:03 --> 00:20:06

narrative. So I always we talk with my students in this way and

00:20:06 --> 00:20:10

say, Listen, so certain atheists talk about the idea of the

00:20:10 --> 00:20:13

possibility of Roswell. So I'm going on a horse with wings. Now

00:20:13 --> 00:20:17

we have a difference of opinion in our own tradition about this. So I

00:20:17 --> 00:20:19

understand that. But the point I'm trying to make is, in the Western

00:20:19 --> 00:20:22

tradition, the idea is, we've never seen any horse with wings.

00:20:22 --> 00:20:25

There's no evidence of any horses wings, there's no evidence of a

00:20:25 --> 00:20:28

horse can be able to do this any other? Doesn't. We didn't find any

00:20:28 --> 00:20:34

bones. This is impossible. And yet, we say is, I always ask my

00:20:34 --> 00:20:39

students, is Allah Tala capable of doing that? They say yes. Okay, we

00:20:39 --> 00:20:42

have a different position on facts now. Yeah. So already, you can see

00:20:42 --> 00:20:45

how this operates and works. I tried to explain to my students a

00:20:45 --> 00:20:48

yes, there is a difference within the tuition. That's not the point.

00:20:48 --> 00:20:54

The point is, is that by by them removing all in from the equation,

00:20:55 --> 00:20:59

they remove a huge component in the way you understand things. And

00:20:59 --> 00:21:02

that's just a basic example I'm given for Muslims in that sense.

00:21:02 --> 00:21:06

But on many occasions, when we're writing narratives, you see that

00:21:06 --> 00:21:09

facts are manipulated, statistics are manipulated, numbers are

00:21:09 --> 00:21:13

manipulated in that sense. So that's the one point. But

00:21:14 --> 00:21:17

the second point about writing your own history is this, I was

00:21:17 --> 00:21:18

only telling the students this morning,

00:21:19 --> 00:21:23

when he Israelis occupied Palestine, they didn't only take

00:21:23 --> 00:21:27

away their land, take away their material wealth, take away their

00:21:27 --> 00:21:29

lives, they took away their memories.

00:21:30 --> 00:21:35

All right. So Palestinians have been struggling for a long time,

00:21:35 --> 00:21:39

again, in opposition to the Israeli identity. But you had an

00:21:39 --> 00:21:43

identity before that. You had a history before that. You had a

00:21:43 --> 00:21:46

history that goes back. And what is it part of it's part of the

00:21:46 --> 00:21:50

Islamic history, it's part of Islamic tradition, many Muslim

00:21:50 --> 00:21:55

academics, they want to talk about Islamic Jerusalem to make that

00:21:55 --> 00:21:58

point, so that people understand. And one of the most powerful

00:21:58 --> 00:22:03

things you can do for a group of people is not allowed them to have

00:22:03 --> 00:22:06

the right to write about their own history, and then to write the

00:22:06 --> 00:22:11

history for them. And power does that it decides what it names and

00:22:11 --> 00:22:15

what it doesn't mean, it decides what your identity is, and isn't.

00:22:15 --> 00:22:19

And this is why I say for Muslims, the ultimate power is Allah, he

00:22:19 --> 00:22:23

named our deen Islam, and he named us Muslim. So that gives us our

00:22:23 --> 00:22:27

sense of identity. But when you see in academia in particular,

00:22:27 --> 00:22:31

these are everyone else is right. And it's not here. For me, it's

00:22:31 --> 00:22:35

not about Muslims only, we have Muslims in academia. But they're

00:22:35 --> 00:22:40

still writing from a perspective, which is not helpful for Muslims

00:22:40 --> 00:22:42

or the Palestinians. In that sense. It's a great point that you

00:22:42 --> 00:22:46

make. And and I want to say, it's one of the genius moves by the

00:22:46 --> 00:22:51

Israelis, to promote a new Palestinian identity based on this

00:22:51 --> 00:22:55

flag that never existed before whatever the 50s.

00:22:57 --> 00:23:01

And even that name, Palestinian was something that also is

00:23:01 --> 00:23:06

relatively modern, you are just from a Shem, you are from feminine

00:23:06 --> 00:23:11

goats a democracy or something like this. You were you had a

00:23:11 --> 00:23:17

broader base, you had a longer history. And to put them in a box

00:23:17 --> 00:23:20

makes it so powerful, because now I grow up, let's say from

00:23:20 --> 00:23:25

Palestinian, I grew up and my identity is just a rebel, stone

00:23:25 --> 00:23:30

throwing rebel. Like I don't have a rich history before this. So we

00:23:30 --> 00:23:33

have to interrogate Just that fact that you call the Justice word,

00:23:33 --> 00:23:37

Palestinian and that flag. Now maybe, of course, most people

00:23:37 --> 00:23:38

don't think too deeply about it.

00:23:39 --> 00:23:42

But what is it? What will your great great grandfather, how did

00:23:42 --> 00:23:45

he view himself he to view himself as a Palestinian, who's against

00:23:45 --> 00:23:49

Israel, he viewed himself as something far greater. And that's

00:23:49 --> 00:23:53

really important. And that goes to summarize your critique is that

00:23:53 --> 00:23:57

there is no such thing as somebody going and just looking at the

00:23:57 --> 00:24:02

facts. Every historian you are not an AI bot, you are a human being.

00:24:05 --> 00:24:08

I can't even do that, because it has to be filtered. Someone's got

00:24:08 --> 00:24:11

to give the AI its its instructions, right. So there's a

00:24:11 --> 00:24:15

human being behind that. That human being has beliefs, has

00:24:15 --> 00:24:20

emotions, most importantly has motives. Right? He has a motive.

00:24:20 --> 00:24:25

And we say about this is that we interrogate the historian first

00:24:25 --> 00:24:29

before we interrogate his facts. Before we interrogate your book

00:24:29 --> 00:24:32

and your conclusion. We're interrogating you. And we're

00:24:32 --> 00:24:35

asking what is your motive? Can you outline for us your intent,

00:24:36 --> 00:24:38

right? We say intimate profit, thoughtless actions or right

00:24:38 --> 00:24:42

intentions. And this is why I always say it's not far fetched.

00:24:42 --> 00:24:47

It's not unprofessional to ask motive. Every introduction of a

00:24:47 --> 00:24:52

book should be What's your motive? When I look at an orientalist, ask

00:24:52 --> 00:24:56

mashallah LOOK AT THAT good deed that was done by watch coming in

00:24:56 --> 00:24:58

with the with the coffee unbelievable.

00:24:59 --> 00:25:00

When I

00:25:00 --> 00:25:01

Look at a motive, got

00:25:02 --> 00:25:07

a historian and Orientalist. And I say, Hold on a second. You just

00:25:07 --> 00:25:09

spent about 10 years doing graduate studies.

00:25:11 --> 00:25:13

This is not your faith, you don't believe in it. You're getting

00:25:13 --> 00:25:14

nothing spiritual out of it.

00:25:16 --> 00:25:19

You're getting nothing political out of it. This is not a pre

00:25:19 --> 00:25:21

conquest study that you're doing here.

00:25:23 --> 00:25:27

You're not making money out of this. Right? Thank you very much.

00:25:27 --> 00:25:30

What is the medical Loafie? Commercial? What's the latest and

00:25:30 --> 00:25:37

salaries of a so us historian or even let's take the highest level?

00:25:37 --> 00:25:43

The highest level is what? 150? K? 120. K, right.

00:25:44 --> 00:25:48

You're not making money? What do you do with 150? K? 120? K, right.

00:25:48 --> 00:25:52

What do I do with that? Right? But after taxes after wife after kids

00:25:52 --> 00:25:57

after rent after, after mortgage? You got nothing. So I should think

00:25:57 --> 00:26:01

I should really ask the question. What the heck are you doing? Why

00:26:01 --> 00:26:04

are you doing this? So we interrogate the motive. What is

00:26:04 --> 00:26:10

your motive? There's no way you're spending all that time. And all

00:26:10 --> 00:26:17

that effort on no profit, no wealth, no power. Not even social.

00:26:17 --> 00:26:23

Like you're not even like, famous, like YouTube star can make no

00:26:23 --> 00:26:26

money. But he's he trended right. And people recognize him as you

00:26:26 --> 00:26:27

don't get that.

00:26:28 --> 00:26:32

You don't get anything. You cannot tell me? Oh, I'm just interested.

00:26:33 --> 00:26:37

Oh, it's just, it's fascinating. Oh, it's compelling. I'm not

00:26:37 --> 00:26:40

buying that. So your point basically is saying that the

00:26:40 --> 00:26:42

historian himself has a motive.

00:26:43 --> 00:26:46

And that's going to lead and that which is why we are not going to

00:26:46 --> 00:26:48

accept, nobody will accept

00:26:50 --> 00:26:54

a call a cabal of

00:26:56 --> 00:27:00

outsiders, from our tradition, to write our history and tell us who

00:27:00 --> 00:27:04

we are. So from the get go, you are X. Here's an X on you, as

00:27:04 --> 00:27:08

historian before you bring because we don't believe in facts alone

00:27:08 --> 00:27:13

facts are wit welded into a story. Right? Okay. Now, let's This

00:27:13 --> 00:27:14

brings me to the other point.

00:27:15 --> 00:27:19

Islamic history is oftentimes

00:27:20 --> 00:27:25

perceived as the study of Muslims, right? Well, that's not weak.

00:27:26 --> 00:27:30

That's, that's really shallow. And I'm going to put four three

00:27:30 --> 00:27:35

possibilities, and you tell me where they stand, where you stand

00:27:35 --> 00:27:39

on this. True, the soul of Islamic history has to ask the question of

00:27:40 --> 00:27:41

to whom are we accountable?

00:27:42 --> 00:27:46

What is our purpose of doing this? To truly be Muslims writing

00:27:46 --> 00:27:50

history? Number three, what are the rights of the subject?

00:27:51 --> 00:27:55

Muhammad Fattah, he has vocal if I'm writing about so I had a UV he

00:27:55 --> 00:27:59

has. These are dead people. Like you said that guy. He said, how

00:27:59 --> 00:28:03

it's good thing right history about they're all dead. Right? Not

00:28:03 --> 00:28:06

for us. They're dead for us. But they have hook.

00:28:07 --> 00:28:12

Their creator is watching and will resurrect everyone to judge. So

00:28:12 --> 00:28:14

these are three principles. Now I want you to comment on those

00:28:14 --> 00:28:21

principles will soon also Kitab it's a teddy also will retain also

00:28:21 --> 00:28:27

the right. Again, I'm gonna repeat them. Who's the ultimate judge of

00:28:27 --> 00:28:31

this history? Is that a panel of other peer reviews? Right, a peer

00:28:31 --> 00:28:31

review panel?

00:28:33 --> 00:28:36

Number two, what is the purpose of this? Why are we doing this?

00:28:36 --> 00:28:39

Number three, the rights of the subject?

00:28:40 --> 00:28:41

That's a great question. Actually.

00:28:43 --> 00:28:48

Those three points are not just restricted to history writing is

00:28:48 --> 00:28:49

to kill myself.

00:28:51 --> 00:28:55

And when a person, especially a Muslim understands that those

00:28:55 --> 00:29:02

three components are necessary for the one who's doing LM, then they

00:29:02 --> 00:29:03

can write an LM which is

00:29:05 --> 00:29:09

it's far more what I would say accountable. And it is framed

00:29:09 --> 00:29:13

within the framework of humility, because you become a truth seeker.

00:29:14 --> 00:29:17

And in our dean, and I said this before, we said, we're truth

00:29:17 --> 00:29:23

seekers and with truth speakers, right? So if in your everyday

00:29:23 --> 00:29:28

life, and LM is not just about abstract ideas that go into books,

00:29:29 --> 00:29:33

Islam is live tradition. So the idea of Elm is that you're aware

00:29:33 --> 00:29:37

that there is Allah, Allah exists and you're held accountable to

00:29:37 --> 00:29:39

that. If in your everyday life, you're aware of this

00:29:39 --> 00:29:43

accountability, when you're writing something, creating

00:29:43 --> 00:29:48

knowledge of people who cannot defend themselves, the best thing

00:29:48 --> 00:29:51

you can do in our tradition, is to give them a fair trial. For

00:29:51 --> 00:29:54

example, if a brother comes to me and his older sister comes to me

00:29:54 --> 00:29:57

and says, I want to get married to this guy, what's your opinion?

00:29:58 --> 00:29:59

You don't just start trashing him.

00:30:00 --> 00:30:03

If you don't like them, you try to be as fair as possible. And you

00:30:03 --> 00:30:06

have a particular mannerism, a particular behavior, a particular

00:30:06 --> 00:30:11

item. And you're aware, also that you're being held accountable in

00:30:11 --> 00:30:14

the eyes of Allah to Allah. One of the mistakes that many Muslims

00:30:14 --> 00:30:17

make is they think, just because a person doesn't exist anymore, that

00:30:17 --> 00:30:20

we're talking about them like we're watching a movie, say,

00:30:20 --> 00:30:23

Listen, people, relax, be careful. Be careful what you're doing. So

00:30:23 --> 00:30:28

when I wrote my PhD, I was very nervous. I'd sit there because I

00:30:28 --> 00:30:33

had loads of names in there. Alama Sultan Abdulhamid the second

00:30:33 --> 00:30:36

people, and my concern was

00:30:37 --> 00:30:41

you leaving sadaqa jariya? Behind? Is it sadaqa jariya? Is it and on

00:30:41 --> 00:30:45

the Day of Judgment, all of these people will line up and say to

00:30:45 --> 00:30:49

Allah, Oh, actually, he lied about me. He wasn't there. So then I got

00:30:49 --> 00:30:52

nervous. So I told you this before in the beginning, and Allah knows

00:30:52 --> 00:30:54

best mechanism to try to

00:30:56 --> 00:30:59

safeguard myself in that sense. And I think, for Muslims, this is

00:30:59 --> 00:31:04

not just shared, an idea of how they judge the past, this is how

00:31:04 --> 00:31:07

they should behave with the fellow brethren when they live. And this

00:31:07 --> 00:31:11

is a really valid point, you make that on every aspect they do that,

00:31:11 --> 00:31:13

are they being held accountable to Allah to Allah? How are they

00:31:13 --> 00:31:17

speaking? And what's the point of it? So you can go into every

00:31:17 --> 00:31:20

single detail of one's life and and start pulling it out? But is

00:31:20 --> 00:31:22

that how we operate? Is that how we want to be? And I've been

00:31:22 --> 00:31:26

called, I remember I was in an academic forum. And the guy said

00:31:26 --> 00:31:27

to me, you're just biased because you're Muslim?

00:31:28 --> 00:31:31

And I said, No, our viewpoints are different. You're you're under the

00:31:31 --> 00:31:34

assumption that because you're not Muslim, that you have an authority

00:31:34 --> 00:31:39

to speak to me as being objective. Because your mechanism tells you

00:31:39 --> 00:31:42

that that's what being objective is. I said, No, no way, no chance

00:31:43 --> 00:31:46

of viewpoints are different. I'm talking about my community, you're

00:31:46 --> 00:31:50

not. And but you think that your position is more valid than miton.

00:31:50 --> 00:31:52

I reject that. I reject that. And I tell him all the time, I

00:31:52 --> 00:31:55

remember, sorry, to keep going. We were talking about the Allama

00:31:55 --> 00:31:58

ones. And they'll send you know, the Aloma this, this, this and

00:31:58 --> 00:32:03

this, and in history, and I sat down new workshop, and I listened

00:32:03 --> 00:32:07

and I stuck my hand up, if any of you like, met any Allama, they

00:32:07 --> 00:32:12

went No. And I said, so. Do you know that many of these people who

00:32:12 --> 00:32:15

you talk about in our tradition, they fit all?

00:32:16 --> 00:32:20

I said, How do you judge that? How do you measure that? Without not

00:32:20 --> 00:32:22

having a tradition to tell you that? They said, well, that's not

00:32:22 --> 00:32:26

that important. I said, but it is though. And they say, Well, do

00:32:26 --> 00:32:29

these people really exist on Yes, because I feel like I'm here in

00:32:29 --> 00:32:32

this room, and I fit all, and they are better people than me out

00:32:32 --> 00:32:38

there. And I've met them. And so you've just reduced a tradition to

00:32:38 --> 00:32:41

information that you saw on paper. And I said, That's not the way

00:32:41 --> 00:32:44

that our tradition worked. As I told you, before, our tradition

00:32:44 --> 00:32:48

was written and oral. And there was a particular actor ROM in the

00:32:48 --> 00:32:51

tradition in the way that you speak of people, even if they're

00:32:51 --> 00:32:55

people you don't like. So they have rights. Exactly. We have

00:32:55 --> 00:32:58

rights, they have rights. And the rights of the dead, you know, are

00:32:58 --> 00:33:02

really important in that sense. So this was an intriguing point, the

00:33:02 --> 00:33:08

issue of your up your worthiness of talking as a Muslim, when

00:33:08 --> 00:33:13

you're going to talk about Islam. The one of the first points that

00:33:13 --> 00:33:18

we're going to ask is, who is judging you. If you don't believe

00:33:18 --> 00:33:20

in God, if you don't believe in Allah, and you don't believe that

00:33:20 --> 00:33:23

you will be judged on the Day of Judgment, then

00:33:24 --> 00:33:26

your words about Islam,

00:33:27 --> 00:33:31

your fatawa are unacceptable are not accepted. If you discover

00:33:31 --> 00:33:32

something demonstrable,

00:33:33 --> 00:33:37

we accept it. That's the big difference. We will accept the

00:33:37 --> 00:33:41

finds of an archaeologist, whether he's a Catholic or Muslim.

00:33:42 --> 00:33:45

But his analysis is something totally different. Because now

00:33:45 --> 00:33:48

that's going through a filter. And that's what we have to separate

00:33:48 --> 00:33:52

the historian is not going somewhere and discovering an

00:33:52 --> 00:33:57

objective fact. He's he's taking snippets and sewing them. And

00:33:57 --> 00:34:02

essentially, it's it's an essence very similar to a fatwa in the

00:34:02 --> 00:34:06

sense that he is telling you believe this about your past.

00:34:06 --> 00:34:10

Whereas Affectiva is telling you worship your God like this print,

00:34:10 --> 00:34:11

avoid this.

00:34:12 --> 00:34:14

I think believing something about your past is really important,

00:34:14 --> 00:34:18

too. It's a testimony, your testimony is out your your

00:34:18 --> 00:34:23

analysis is out for us because you don't fear what we fear. We can

00:34:23 --> 00:34:28

accept your commentary on what happened in an earthquake, your

00:34:28 --> 00:34:33

journalism, your history of your secular history. But once you

00:34:33 --> 00:34:36

start talking about sacred history, like the origins of

00:34:36 --> 00:34:41

Islam, or what sacred figures did, for us, like who we consider has

00:34:41 --> 00:34:45

rights, in the sight of Allah like ourself, we're going to

00:34:45 --> 00:34:49

interrogate your personal motive and your personal status before we

00:34:49 --> 00:34:53

accept anything from you. We will accept from you however, a coin

00:34:53 --> 00:34:54

that you found in the ground,

00:34:55 --> 00:34:58

a whole building the you know, the omegas had buildings that were

00:34:58 --> 00:34:59

covered by sand and Jordan right

00:35:00 --> 00:35:02

There are they ended up being like pleasure houses, right? They were

00:35:02 --> 00:35:06

like clubs, or maids or something else. And they were just covered

00:35:06 --> 00:35:09

by so we how can we deny that that's demonstrable fact.

00:35:10 --> 00:35:14

Facts Only come to us through transmission, through sense

00:35:14 --> 00:35:19

perception and demonstration, what we call science and through reason

00:35:20 --> 00:35:23

you can be whatever faith you want, if you bring me something

00:35:23 --> 00:35:27

demonstrable or rational, the equation on the board whether

00:35:27 --> 00:35:29

you're Hindu or Muslim doesn't make a difference, right? It's an

00:35:29 --> 00:35:33

equation on the board, we can all judge it a discovery that you

00:35:33 --> 00:35:35

discovered a while I went to Damascus and I found a coin from

00:35:35 --> 00:35:38

the Omega era, the coins right in front of us we're not going to

00:35:38 --> 00:35:44

reject that. Now for you to come and so together a thesis that you

00:35:44 --> 00:35:48

stop right here. Now you can talk all you want okay, but we're not

00:35:48 --> 00:35:50

listening. And here is where

00:35:51 --> 00:35:53

I went through this very similar things to you. I took this on the

00:35:53 --> 00:35:58

classes at Rutgers Islamic Studies courses taught by zindex This is

00:35:58 --> 00:36:01

indeed because name was the man something right. Professors a

00:36:01 --> 00:36:04

minute. I don't know if you want Drucker's I don't know if you

00:36:04 --> 00:36:07

remember professors are men, right? There was professors and

00:36:07 --> 00:36:13

men. There was Professor nominal, Huck, I'm gonna Hawk he was like

00:36:13 --> 00:36:18

that type of Desi uncle. He was very smart guy trained in England.

00:36:18 --> 00:36:21

He loved Islam. He really did love Islam, except he had his own

00:36:21 --> 00:36:21

thing.

00:36:22 --> 00:36:27

We took us to his house one time. And he said, I know that you pray,

00:36:28 --> 00:36:32

I need to tell you. When I pray, I get so

00:36:33 --> 00:36:38

enraptured, that it may trigger a heart condition. So I don't have

00:36:38 --> 00:36:38

to pray.

00:36:42 --> 00:36:42

I was like,

00:36:44 --> 00:36:48

I was like, I've never heard anyone bring it like that. Right?

00:36:48 --> 00:36:52

Like to get so enraptured with Allah, that it can trigger his

00:36:52 --> 00:36:55

heart condition. So he gave himself the rasa. No, Salah is

00:36:55 --> 00:36:56

obligatory.

00:36:57 --> 00:37:02

Yeah, it's a matter. Yeah. So anyway, these are the professors.

00:37:02 --> 00:37:05

I'm thinking myself this, this needs to be changed, right? But

00:37:05 --> 00:37:09

then very quickly realize that it's not going to be changed using

00:37:09 --> 00:37:13

these methods. They're their power doesn't come from their thesis,

00:37:13 --> 00:37:16

their power comes from the institution that's allowing them

00:37:16 --> 00:37:20

to talk. It's, it's about this is about power. It's not about facts.

00:37:20 --> 00:37:24

Right? If I, if we have GE Dell with a group of folks,

00:37:25 --> 00:37:30

I can act we can argue on I am, and I know they will submit to

00:37:30 --> 00:37:35

evidences, or at least we can talk about the evidences. But if you

00:37:35 --> 00:37:38

can't even say the word Allah in the field,

00:37:39 --> 00:37:43

why am I afraid to say that, right? It's because there's an

00:37:43 --> 00:37:47

entire institution backed by an entire civilization. So the way

00:37:47 --> 00:37:52

that this to be undone is going to be by brute force and power, as

00:37:52 --> 00:37:57

opposed to playing the game within their sandbox. And I said this

00:37:57 --> 00:38:03

earlier, orientalist, they built a sandbox with their rules. And then

00:38:03 --> 00:38:06

they declared victory inside that sandbox, they declared victory

00:38:06 --> 00:38:07

there. And that's,

00:38:09 --> 00:38:12

that's an interesting point, which is when it's not just the

00:38:12 --> 00:38:16

institution like one university, or here, it's a machinery, right.

00:38:16 --> 00:38:19

So as a historian, as you said, when the rules are already made,

00:38:20 --> 00:38:24

I've already restricted myself as a Muslim to the rules or the other

00:38:24 --> 00:38:27

side arbitrary rules in the way that they speak of me. And I've

00:38:27 --> 00:38:32

accepted the rules. And then I've, and what you see what happens is

00:38:32 --> 00:38:35

when those rules are narrow, when those rules have a lot of holes in

00:38:35 --> 00:38:40

it, like Dutch cheese, when those rules have a particular, the way

00:38:40 --> 00:38:43

that the system is designed, is to have an opinion of you, as if you

00:38:43 --> 00:38:46

are an objector. Because one of the things about the West when

00:38:46 --> 00:38:48

they were colonizing the world or so forth, they came to the

00:38:48 --> 00:38:51

conclusion that they are the power that has the right to judge

00:38:51 --> 00:38:55

everyone else, every other civilization. And when you go into

00:38:55 --> 00:38:59

that machinery, you're not given the permission to write from your

00:38:59 --> 00:39:02

own perspective, that you have to write from a perspective of their

00:39:02 --> 00:39:06

gaze on you. Even if you said you have Muslim professors, it's

00:39:06 --> 00:39:09

irrelevant. Now. You can be a religious Muslim and still not

00:39:09 --> 00:39:12

write the things that you want to write. So I've said this before,

00:39:12 --> 00:39:16

like an example in I think, one of the journals of Islamic studies.

00:39:16 --> 00:39:21

You can't use the word Allah is the journal of Islamic studies. So

00:39:21 --> 00:39:25

whatever name Why would, you would get confused we suppose. Right?

00:39:25 --> 00:39:29

Right. That's why, you know, Allah subhanaw taala says, Well, my

00:39:29 --> 00:39:33

Erica Baba Malachi Abraham elimine, Sofia NAFSA. No one goes

00:39:33 --> 00:39:38

outside the way of Ibrahim, except someone who belittles himself. No

00:39:38 --> 00:39:42

one willingly enters into this playground, and plays that game of

00:39:42 --> 00:39:45

theirs, and writes history according to their rules and their

00:39:45 --> 00:39:48

style, except someone who was throwing dirt in his own face, who

00:39:48 --> 00:39:51

was humiliating himself willingly. So it doesn't matter if you're

00:39:51 --> 00:39:54

Muslim and you're trying to attain an Islamic or the right

00:39:56 --> 00:39:59

conclusion, the fact that you accepted these rules and these

00:39:59 --> 00:39:59

precepts

00:40:00 --> 00:40:04

questions you've dropped in all of our sites look like? Why would you

00:40:04 --> 00:40:08

even accept this? Right? And let's not forget, the it's not of

00:40:08 --> 00:40:12

Orientalism of the study of Islam, what was its original purpose? Was

00:40:12 --> 00:40:18

it not originally a political institution, a military connected

00:40:18 --> 00:40:21

institution, to go study the people so that we can conquer

00:40:21 --> 00:40:25

them? Was that not the origins? Right? Is that not the origins of

00:40:25 --> 00:40:29

so us, as a government school to go and study people before we

00:40:29 --> 00:40:34

conquered them? Right? So that's the it's not of that. So all of

00:40:34 --> 00:40:39

this goes back to the concept that when when someone an outsider is

00:40:39 --> 00:40:43

writing about you, in Islam, our concept in Islam, we interrogate

00:40:43 --> 00:40:46

the individual and his motives, right.

00:40:48 --> 00:40:49

So that's what I mean.

00:40:50 --> 00:40:55

So history, I keep telling my students is ideology, a historian.

00:40:55 --> 00:40:58

So I've said this before, in many talks here that I was told by a

00:40:58 --> 00:41:02

family member who's going to pay you to think, because in our

00:41:02 --> 00:41:07

communities, we focus on the STEM, STEM subjects are more important,

00:41:07 --> 00:41:11

go get a job, get married, make money, and they gave away the

00:41:11 --> 00:41:15

agency of their own identity to somebody else to talk about them.

00:41:16 --> 00:41:20

Then they come to me and say, Did this actually happen? The book

00:41:20 --> 00:41:23

that I just read, is that actually true? Let me human being I'm not a

00:41:23 --> 00:41:26

machine, how many? How many fires am I going to put out? Because we

00:41:26 --> 00:41:30

didn't invest in writing about ourselves. And instead, when we

00:41:30 --> 00:41:34

now picking up books that we're aware, we haven't written that's

00:41:34 --> 00:41:38

coming from a particular machinery, speaking of us, and

00:41:38 --> 00:41:42

then we're looking for people to say, is this true or not true? The

00:41:42 --> 00:41:46

fact that we've been reduced to asking those questions, there is

00:41:46 --> 00:41:49

this. That's a problem, right? That's a problem. And in that

00:41:49 --> 00:41:51

sense, as I said, and you've heard me say this before, that

00:41:51 --> 00:41:56

hamdulillah Muslims have the illiterate, they've got money in

00:41:56 --> 00:41:58

this part of the world anyway, and they become knowledge consumers.

00:41:59 --> 00:42:02

But where's the knowledge production? And in this part of

00:42:02 --> 00:42:05

the world, I see many Muslims writing about Muslim identity,

00:42:05 --> 00:42:09

because they feel a pressure about being Muslim. When did they write

00:42:09 --> 00:42:14

about Islam? Yeah. And you know, for me often becomes Islam is my

00:42:14 --> 00:42:18

personal religion, my quiet little space and so forth. You're part of

00:42:18 --> 00:42:23

a large civilization, that's going to continue. And you have to have,

00:42:23 --> 00:42:27

I mean, what I say by Ross Wilson, he was front foot with his Dawa.

00:42:28 --> 00:42:32

You don't see any defensiveness, you don't see any apologizing. You

00:42:32 --> 00:42:35

don't see any of this stuff, like, you're not on the front foot with

00:42:35 --> 00:42:38

the Dawa. People accepted it hamdulillah they didn't keep

00:42:38 --> 00:42:42

going. And this sort of like confidence, or the lack of is

00:42:42 --> 00:42:47

because of the lack of knowledge and the inability to, to know what

00:42:47 --> 00:42:51

is right and wrong and giving away your agency, not just to people,

00:42:51 --> 00:42:57

not just to institutions, but to a alternative civilizational project

00:42:57 --> 00:43:02

is a problem. And that project, it only take took off because you won

00:43:02 --> 00:43:08

the wars, right? If we really analyze this, even it's economics,

00:43:08 --> 00:43:11

it's all the same, like what gives $1 any power, the military that's

00:43:11 --> 00:43:15

behind it, right? That's really where that's where you track it

00:43:15 --> 00:43:18

back to what gives the orientalist

00:43:19 --> 00:43:22

for framework, any validity, the institutions that are behind Well,

00:43:22 --> 00:43:26

what's behind the institution's, the great wealth that your

00:43:26 --> 00:43:30

military allowed for your country death and produce and your country

00:43:30 --> 00:43:33

did produce wealth by itself generated wealth by

00:43:36 --> 00:43:41

its own genuine and Goodwill means, right and inventions, etc,

00:43:41 --> 00:43:45

but nonetheless, backed by your military. So, when we look at the

00:43:45 --> 00:43:50

examination of Islam, we're looking at a civilizational

00:43:50 --> 00:43:56

project known as Orientalism that for anybody to say, no, no, it's

00:43:56 --> 00:43:59

just facts, and we're putting the facts out there.

00:44:00 --> 00:44:03

It's got to be one of the biggest lies out there and untruths that

00:44:03 --> 00:44:07

are spoken, because it's totally not that it seems now shoddy.

00:44:08 --> 00:44:13

Before there was a harsh, sharp understanding of what Orientalism

00:44:13 --> 00:44:18

was, yeah, it's now is Orientalism 2.0. You're getting a form of

00:44:18 --> 00:44:22

Orientalism with kindness. You know, one of the things that you

00:44:22 --> 00:44:26

notice in academia continues continuously, is there may be a

00:44:26 --> 00:44:29

sympathy towards Muslims. But intellectually there's an

00:44:29 --> 00:44:34

antagonism towards Islam. You can write knowledge. Exactly. And when

00:44:34 --> 00:44:37

I come to universities, you can see a nervousness in the Muslim

00:44:37 --> 00:44:41

students. They're aware that if you're going to speak hot or

00:44:41 --> 00:44:45

truth, you're going to rock the boat. Don't do that. So then if

00:44:45 --> 00:44:48

you've gone into this institution to learn, what is it that you're

00:44:48 --> 00:44:52

trying to learn? What is it that you want to do? And so you you

00:44:52 --> 00:44:55

feel that and when I go to the universities, I tell Muslims,

00:44:55 --> 00:44:59

listen, we have countless Hadith literature speak to truth.

00:45:00 --> 00:45:03

Your risk is in the hands of older is not going to be affected by

00:45:03 --> 00:45:07

this don't worry about am I going to get my IV job or not? People

00:45:07 --> 00:45:11

might think that I'm being bit flippant here. But you know, I'm

00:45:11 --> 00:45:17

on the dialer, I say before His mercy, trust his protection, He

00:45:17 --> 00:45:20

will protect you. And now many Muslims in the past who have gone

00:45:20 --> 00:45:25

for many challenges for speaking the truth for for LM of Islam, and

00:45:25 --> 00:45:29

for the sake of Islam. And I just hope that, you know, the other

00:45:29 --> 00:45:32

communities here I've noticed who are very front foot in regards to

00:45:32 --> 00:45:36

defending their identities, defending their culture, defending

00:45:36 --> 00:45:40

their traditions, that Muslims thought to replicate and resonate

00:45:40 --> 00:45:43

in the same way that this is a tradition they should be proud of.

00:45:44 --> 00:45:47

I mean, you can ask you a question, what is the if a

00:45:49 --> 00:45:52

documentary series was announced on the history of,

00:45:53 --> 00:45:54

of Mali?

00:45:55 --> 00:46:00

And it turns out that the guy behind it is Dutch, and the

00:46:00 --> 00:46:05

financier is French? What's the reaction going to be? Right? And

00:46:05 --> 00:46:07

is it a valid reaction?

00:46:09 --> 00:46:13

I think I mean, maybe the people of Mali because they subjugated

00:46:13 --> 00:46:16

may not say much, but in this country, the reaction would be,

00:46:16 --> 00:46:21

they'll go off to them. And it's a valid reaction. Why not? Because

00:46:21 --> 00:46:22

somebody else

00:46:24 --> 00:46:28

is writing about you from their perspective. And, you know, these

00:46:28 --> 00:46:31

communities have realized that enough is enough. So why are

00:46:31 --> 00:46:35

Muslims not doing that, and, you know, been here for a few weeks,

00:46:35 --> 00:46:38

and they sort of like tit for tat that happens amongst Muslims. In

00:46:38 --> 00:46:42

that sense. It's low hanging fruit, there's a bigger picture,

00:46:42 --> 00:46:45

the bigger picture is to go off to the roots, the roots of the

00:46:45 --> 00:46:47

problem, you know what I mean? So you know, just your motive,

00:46:48 --> 00:46:52

exactly like what your French and Dutch got? What's your motive? You

00:46:52 --> 00:46:55

can't love us this much. Right? And if you do, you are weird,

00:46:55 --> 00:47:00

right? So in a religion, you love the religion, like you would

00:47:00 --> 00:47:03

accept it, right? You cannot love it and reject it at the same time.

00:47:03 --> 00:47:06

So that's how I give you an example. So when I was at so as

00:47:06 --> 00:47:10

new dizziness, so when our professors used to talk about

00:47:10 --> 00:47:13

Islam, they didn't care that we existed, they didn't care they

00:47:13 --> 00:47:16

were they there was a sense of arrogance in sticking it to us.

00:47:16 --> 00:47:19

I've heard this before, I know you're Muslim. But for now, we're

00:47:19 --> 00:47:22

just going to keep you all outside the classroom. And we're going to

00:47:22 --> 00:47:25

talk about this and you're just going to accept it, you accept it.

00:47:25 --> 00:47:28

And I remember one time, I was given a Joomla hook, but not at

00:47:28 --> 00:47:33

source, but in Turkey. And a non Muslim entered the room. And

00:47:33 --> 00:47:34

Muslims got nervous.

00:47:35 --> 00:47:39

You know, teacher, listen, they've given me the eyes, take it easy,

00:47:39 --> 00:47:42

jumbo click. But it's intriguing that when I'm in that environment,

00:47:42 --> 00:47:46

I have to make the, you know, adjustment and just suck it up.

00:47:46 --> 00:47:48

And when I'm in my environment, I have to make the adjustment and

00:47:48 --> 00:47:51

suck it up. Come on, this is the issue telling you where the power

00:47:51 --> 00:47:54

lies. That's exactly what ends up being a power.

00:47:55 --> 00:48:00

Dynamic. That's really the problem. So I mean, this is one

00:48:00 --> 00:48:04

thing that I think the woke agenda actually got, right? The idea that

00:48:04 --> 00:48:08

people should determine their own narratives and you go after they

00:48:08 --> 00:48:12

go after with reckless abandon any man who's trying to talk about

00:48:12 --> 00:48:20

womanhood, right? Any man who's any non African American talking

00:48:20 --> 00:48:24

about African American history, you will be chased down,

00:48:25 --> 00:48:27

rightfully so. Right?

00:48:28 --> 00:48:30

When is this going to spill over to Islamic Studies department? We

00:48:30 --> 00:48:35

don't trust your motives, right? The only motive you can have is

00:48:35 --> 00:48:39

destruction. Like you're trying to take this down and apply your

00:48:39 --> 00:48:42

filter onto our history. And I loved what you said earlier, too.

00:48:43 --> 00:48:46

I think you said this on Friday. History is truly not about writing

00:48:46 --> 00:48:52

the past. It's framing your identity, so that you can power

00:48:52 --> 00:48:52

forward.

00:48:53 --> 00:48:57

So if I framed for you a destructive identity, that makes

00:48:57 --> 00:49:00

you feeling suspicious of your past,

00:49:01 --> 00:49:06

doubt about your past, then I have hampered you moving forward. What

00:49:06 --> 00:49:10

other the colonizer one? Yeah. So yeah. So this is something that

00:49:10 --> 00:49:14

really triggers me in the sense. I said, Don't let somebody write

00:49:14 --> 00:49:17

about who you were. Don't let people write about who you are.

00:49:17 --> 00:49:20

And don't let people write about who you ought to be. Right. And

00:49:20 --> 00:49:23

this is exactly what's happening in much of history writing, and we

00:49:23 --> 00:49:25

noticed as historians is,

00:49:26 --> 00:49:30

as much as it is about the party, it's about the now. Because when

00:49:30 --> 00:49:34

you see what questions people are asking, because history is a large

00:49:34 --> 00:49:37

repository, why are you making the choices of studying these

00:49:37 --> 00:49:40

particular topics? Why are you asking these particular questions?

00:49:40 --> 00:49:43

Because it interests you now, what is it now that's so interesting,

00:49:44 --> 00:49:47

interesting for you, for you to dig out about the pawza. So it

00:49:47 --> 00:49:51

says a lot when a book is published, understand, what is it

00:49:51 --> 00:49:54

published for? What is the context and so look, don't get me wrong.

00:49:54 --> 00:49:56

There are a lot of books out there just for that they just come out

00:49:56 --> 00:49:59

and there's some geek out there just writing stuff and so forth,

00:49:59 --> 00:49:59

but buy in

00:50:00 --> 00:50:04

Like, the machinery or the institution of history, writing is

00:50:04 --> 00:50:07

not about that it's about a particular framework. And you see

00:50:07 --> 00:50:12

many Muslims who go into the field of history and Islamic Studies and

00:50:12 --> 00:50:18

come out, confused. And that's a problem, I think, let's turn to

00:50:18 --> 00:50:21

the q&a. Right? If you could not meet my red phone over there, just

00:50:21 --> 00:50:25

so I can start reading the YouTube questions. We'll take q&a from

00:50:25 --> 00:50:28

everybody today, on the subject of history, only

00:50:29 --> 00:50:34

the historical critical method and all these other things that

00:50:34 --> 00:50:39

subtopics that we have covered today, we covered a lot. And let's

00:50:39 --> 00:50:40

No,

00:50:41 --> 00:50:43

I like this red wall. Actually, it's not bad.

00:50:45 --> 00:50:46

All right, let's take your q&a.

00:50:48 --> 00:50:53

Go ahead, right? Someone is interacting with someone who

00:50:53 --> 00:50:54

rejects.

00:50:56 --> 00:51:00

So how does one justify and prove using the Quran? Okay.

00:51:02 --> 00:51:08

The first thing is that Chase traced back the chain of

00:51:08 --> 00:51:12

transmission to the idea of rejecting Hadith. And the idea of

00:51:12 --> 00:51:17

rejecting Hadith, I would say was probably getting Muslims to reject

00:51:17 --> 00:51:21

their Hadith was probably part of the colonial project in India.

00:51:21 --> 00:51:25

They went first with physically taking you over, they physically

00:51:25 --> 00:51:26

beat you in wars.

00:51:27 --> 00:51:29

Afterwards, they want to get you convinced

00:51:30 --> 00:51:32

to slough off your religion.

00:51:33 --> 00:51:37

And one of that was through literally the the first people to

00:51:37 --> 00:51:43

do this were Indian Muslims who read Joseph shocked. Right. So I

00:51:43 --> 00:51:44

wanted to comment on that.

00:51:45 --> 00:51:48

I mean, to be honest with you, you're you're more of an expert on

00:51:48 --> 00:51:51

this. But I was teaching these guys an issue in that when in the

00:51:51 --> 00:51:55

Ottoman Empire, when the hat rule came about to ban in the hat and a

00:51:55 --> 00:52:00

clothing that many of the Alama. And one of them in particular, he

00:52:00 --> 00:52:03

was executed, because he refused to take off that.

00:52:04 --> 00:52:07

Yeah, execute. Right, he was hung for not taking it off. And his

00:52:07 --> 00:52:11

argument was, first a take up. So for him, he said, clothing was a

00:52:11 --> 00:52:16

uniform, which shaped you in the way that you behaved. So the

00:52:16 --> 00:52:20

colonizers, first they take off your uniform, then they get inside

00:52:20 --> 00:52:24

your mind, and then they get inside your heart. And so that a

00:52:24 --> 00:52:26

lot of people don't realize this. But if you look at any photos in

00:52:26 --> 00:52:29

the 19th century of anybody in that part of the world, they had

00:52:29 --> 00:52:33

the hips covered, they had them covered. And that was an

00:52:33 --> 00:52:39

intriguing idea that they will use in methodologies of bit by bit of

00:52:39 --> 00:52:45

stripping people away, to only leave them and the notion that the

00:52:45 --> 00:52:49

Quran is it and nothing else. So it's closing like so history is

00:52:49 --> 00:52:53

interesting, because if you see the majority of the attacks on

00:52:53 --> 00:52:58

Islam, that take place, take place via via history. You Muslims did

00:52:58 --> 00:53:01

this, the Muslims did that. You didn't know this, you didn't know

00:53:01 --> 00:53:04

that. So it's intriguing. Hey, as a historian, I mean, in terms of

00:53:04 --> 00:53:06

how do you feel you're far more knowledgeable than me and I'm

00:53:06 --> 00:53:09

actually learning a lot just by listening to you, but

00:53:11 --> 00:53:15

it was comprehensive in the way that they stripped Muslims of all

00:53:15 --> 00:53:20

agency of everything in that sense and this is why the Allameh for me

00:53:20 --> 00:53:24

are important, I say this all the time, the living tradition, you

00:53:24 --> 00:53:28

see it and you know how to behave and act because not everybody has

00:53:28 --> 00:53:31

access to go to the books and when you can see that and when that is

00:53:31 --> 00:53:35

stripped away from you. Then this the community comes absolutely

00:53:35 --> 00:53:38

dislocated is the word completely dislocated, you have no

00:53:38 --> 00:53:43

continuation and no details of who you are. And and it is the Sunnah

00:53:43 --> 00:53:47

that brings us together now from the Quran, Allah to Allah commands

00:53:47 --> 00:53:49

is to follow the messenger sallallahu alayhi wa sallam very

00:53:49 --> 00:53:54

brief refutation of Quran, the Quran only philosophy, and there's

00:53:54 --> 00:53:57

a brother here, his name is refuting orientalists. And I

00:53:57 --> 00:54:00

haven't started watching his videos, but I do plan to watch

00:54:00 --> 00:54:05

your videos. He sent them to me. I believe he's out of India. But we

00:54:05 --> 00:54:08

are commanded in the Quran to follow the messengers of Allah

00:54:08 --> 00:54:11

when he was telling them, the Quran itself was preserved where

00:54:11 --> 00:54:14

who preserved the Quran? Physically who preserved it?

00:54:15 --> 00:54:18

Right, was it? It wasn't not the companions? Well, when the

00:54:18 --> 00:54:20

Companions died, what happened with the Quran? Who preserved it?

00:54:21 --> 00:54:25

Of course, Allah preserved it, but he used humans, right? He used

00:54:25 --> 00:54:28

publishing houses, he used scholars, those same scholars that

00:54:28 --> 00:54:30

you are accepting their preservation of the Quran

00:54:30 --> 00:54:33

preserved the words of the Prophet slicin, who preserved the Arabic

00:54:33 --> 00:54:37

language. What how are you going to unsend the Quran? I'm gonna get

00:54:37 --> 00:54:40

a dictionary who wrote the dictionary? Right? Why are you

00:54:40 --> 00:54:43

trusting the words of the dictionary? So you're trusting the

00:54:43 --> 00:54:46

preservation of the Quran, you're trusting the preservation of the

00:54:46 --> 00:54:49

dictionary, the lexicons in the Arabic language, but you're not

00:54:49 --> 00:54:52

trusting them on the Hadith of the Prophet when a witness takes the

00:54:52 --> 00:54:53

stand.

00:54:54 --> 00:54:59

And the prosecutor and the defense recognize them as a valid source.

00:55:00 --> 00:55:04

The jury must accept everything he says he cannot accept the time,

00:55:05 --> 00:55:08

the glove, the testimony on the time the testimony on the glove,

00:55:08 --> 00:55:12

but not the testimony of who it was what was wearing the holding

00:55:12 --> 00:55:17

the knife? No. If both sides accepts this witness, you accept

00:55:17 --> 00:55:21

everything from the witness. This is why I said, assessing fact from

00:55:21 --> 00:55:25

fiction is a rational thing. It's like everyone on the earth has a

00:55:25 --> 00:55:29

saint will use the same faculties built into us that it's a meme

00:55:29 --> 00:55:32

because it puts it like this. He says that when we assess the

00:55:32 --> 00:55:36

truthfulness of a report, it's very similar to going from hungry

00:55:36 --> 00:55:37

to satisfied.

00:55:38 --> 00:55:41

You slowly get there, but there is a point that you are absolutely

00:55:41 --> 00:55:45

certain you're satisfied. Right. And it's and hunger

00:55:45 --> 00:55:49

dissatisfaction, it's the same worldwide, right? You're gonna

00:55:49 --> 00:55:52

eat, eat, eat until, okay, I'm satisfied. All right, this person

00:55:52 --> 00:55:55

said it that person said it was verified by this verified by that

00:55:55 --> 00:55:58

we're satisfied. Right. And it's quite arrogant, you know? Because,

00:55:59 --> 00:56:03

like over a prolonged period of time. Yeah. Like,

00:56:04 --> 00:56:04

all,

00:56:05 --> 00:56:09

all the Allamah using this methodology, which they endorsing

00:56:10 --> 00:56:14

across the globe, in every corner of the world, that they don't know

00:56:14 --> 00:56:19

each other, across time and space. And in today, somebody comes

00:56:19 --> 00:56:23

along, it's quite, there's a sense of hubris here and laziness. And I

00:56:23 --> 00:56:25

find that absolutely

00:56:26 --> 00:56:29

appalling, actually, that you can just say, well, that's why you

00:56:29 --> 00:56:31

haven't now because today is inconvenient to me. You're

00:56:31 --> 00:56:38

reducing a you know, I hold Dean and I use the word Dean

00:56:38 --> 00:56:43

deliberately here to, to just that that part and you're reducing

00:56:43 --> 00:56:44

Russell seldom

00:56:45 --> 00:56:49

are you I always find it strange when I say or you just reduce your

00:56:49 --> 00:56:53

atheism as a mouthpiece for Quran and Quran only. I mean, this is

00:56:53 --> 00:56:58

why we say Quran we and we say Quran sunnah, like the connected

00:56:58 --> 00:57:02

we, when you listen to people to Clemson, it rolls off like that.

00:57:02 --> 00:57:07

So this modern phenomena, which is a phenomenon, more so now and is

00:57:07 --> 00:57:11

being pushed around that comes out of the fields of academia is

00:57:11 --> 00:57:18

interesting because people have internalized that it's okay to

00:57:18 --> 00:57:21

critique the Alama. But, but I'm going to take something from

00:57:21 --> 00:57:25

academia even though which is explained that a whole culture has

00:57:25 --> 00:57:26

has huge problems.

00:57:27 --> 00:57:31

Let me tell people this when you look at something, you can examine

00:57:31 --> 00:57:35

its evidence for evidence point by point, methodology by methodology,

00:57:35 --> 00:57:39

etc. There's another way to assess things and this to me is the

00:57:39 --> 00:57:43

divine scorecard. The scoreboard of Allah subhanaw taala.

00:57:45 --> 00:57:50

The fruits okay, what up the great Mohammed said Hajj nomadic scholar

00:57:50 --> 00:57:53

what Albert said hudge, who is a Zen hidden an ascetic

00:57:54 --> 00:57:58

was invited by a peep crit he criticized a group of people. He

00:57:58 --> 00:58:02

said that group that and they were, there was some funny

00:58:02 --> 00:58:05

business in there too. So if there were a Sufi group of medic ease,

00:58:06 --> 00:58:10

but they had a lot of, you know, things that led up to it didn't

00:58:10 --> 00:58:14

like that they were doing excessive Bidda. And they call it

00:58:14 --> 00:58:17

of course, Bidda, Hudson, etc. So they invited the young Roberts at

00:58:17 --> 00:58:21

Hajj to be with them for a couple of weeks. In their camp, he

00:58:21 --> 00:58:24

traveled there, and he spent time there they hosted him. And for

00:58:24 --> 00:58:26

every single thing that they did.

00:58:28 --> 00:58:31

They brought him the pile of evidence, right. As you said,

00:58:31 --> 00:58:35

facts can be manipulated, there's no such thing as just a bare bone

00:58:35 --> 00:58:39

fact, it's manipulated to sewn into a story.

00:58:40 --> 00:58:44

At the end, the Sheikh said, Okay, we've we furnish you with all our

00:58:44 --> 00:58:49

evidence, what do you have to say? He could say, As for your legal

00:58:50 --> 00:58:54

defenses, I have nothing to say. And then he said this amazing

00:58:54 --> 00:58:57

statement, he says, Well, I can add a bruh to build h bar.

00:58:58 --> 00:59:01

Which means however, I have none say about your legal evidence,

00:59:01 --> 00:59:05

you're very cleverly putting evidences together. However, the

00:59:05 --> 00:59:11

true reality is by your followers, just look at them. Right. And so,

00:59:11 --> 00:59:15

the truth scorecard of Allah subhanho wa Taala is in the

00:59:15 --> 00:59:20

fruits. So if you believe that the Quran only is the way to go as a

00:59:20 --> 00:59:22

Muslim, then I ask you,

00:59:23 --> 00:59:25

who is preserving the Quran today?

00:59:26 --> 00:59:30

Quran only right? If you want to learn the book of Allah in any

00:59:30 --> 00:59:34

capacity to read it, to get the publication of it, right?

00:59:35 --> 00:59:40

To memorize it, and to read its explanations list me on the earth

00:59:40 --> 00:59:43

today. How many of those institutions how many of those

00:59:43 --> 00:59:47

shoes are Quran only people write? Zero.

00:59:49 --> 00:59:53

You cannot memorize you cannot get a book of Quran most have

00:59:53 --> 00:59:56

published itself except by people who recognize the Hadith.

00:59:57 --> 00:59:58

Let me ask you this

01:00:00 --> 01:00:05

If Quran only is the way and that is the truth, then tell me exactly

01:00:05 --> 01:00:09

which army was Quran only that defended Islam you would not have

01:00:09 --> 01:00:13

the Quran. If the Crusaders were not stuffed, you would not even

01:00:13 --> 01:00:16

have the Quran if the Mongols were not stopped. You would not even

01:00:16 --> 01:00:21

have the Quran or any Muslims in the West if the Reconquista was

01:00:21 --> 01:00:25

not stopped, right, who stood up to the colonizers?

01:00:27 --> 01:00:29

Although their project has continued, we could say the

01:00:29 --> 01:00:33

Mongols project ended Crusader project ended Reconquista project.

01:00:33 --> 01:00:36

It ended but not well. Good. But it did end.

01:00:38 --> 01:00:42

Who fought well, the Reconquista was pushed back for 300 years it

01:00:42 --> 01:00:48

was pushed back by the use of Ben Tashfeen. And then what I'll be

01:00:48 --> 01:00:49

doing then then we're doing

01:00:50 --> 01:00:50

okay.

01:00:52 --> 01:00:56

Who did all that who did all the work? So forget the debating for a

01:00:56 --> 01:01:00

second because a good chess player will just drag out the game.

01:01:01 --> 01:01:04

And that's why I like what he from the woods said here. Power only

01:01:04 --> 01:01:07

new negotiates with power if I trace back

01:01:08 --> 01:01:11

Orientalism and its presuppositions, Darwinism,

01:01:11 --> 01:01:17

Darwinism will not be just negated solely by evidence, it's going to

01:01:17 --> 01:01:19

be negated when Western civilization is reduced to

01:01:19 --> 01:01:23

irrelevance. Because Chinese don't buy into it. By the way, they're

01:01:23 --> 01:01:27

not interested they criticize Darwin all the time. Rest of the

01:01:27 --> 01:01:30

World is not buying into it as religion as the as the way the

01:01:30 --> 01:01:34

West, the ones once Western economic once the economy wants

01:01:34 --> 01:01:37

the military once the general civilization is brought down to

01:01:37 --> 01:01:41

earth, their presupposed theories will also be brought down to

01:01:41 --> 01:01:45

earth. Let's take the next question here. Shoot

01:01:48 --> 01:01:50

a list of all the things that they would be excluding that they

01:01:50 --> 01:01:53

probably do. Like or you know, it's not there.

01:01:54 --> 01:01:56

Are those specified?

01:01:58 --> 01:01:59

Even

01:02:00 --> 01:02:02

with the hitch, like how would you know and

01:02:04 --> 01:02:08

you wouldn't even know what month we're in. What how does the Quran

01:02:08 --> 01:02:11

tell you what month we're in? So the Quran tells us to fast

01:02:11 --> 01:02:14

Ramadan, right? As in the Quran, how do you know where where that

01:02:14 --> 01:02:18

month is? You are going to now propose a religion that doesn't

01:02:18 --> 01:02:21

have a holiday. Like oh, you go till you know what I tell kids,

01:02:22 --> 01:02:26

when they talk about Quran only said, you like to eat? Right?

01:02:26 --> 01:02:30

There's no eat with these people, right? Is that what's absurd? How

01:02:30 --> 01:02:33

do you have a religion without a holiday? Right? Allah subhanho wa

01:02:33 --> 01:02:39

Taala has made intellectual proofs for intellectual people. And

01:02:39 --> 01:02:42

communal community and demonstrable proofs for regular

01:02:42 --> 01:02:45

people. Allah guides regular people, how does he guide?

01:02:46 --> 01:02:49

Let me ask just randomly what field are you in it? It?

01:02:51 --> 01:02:53

Like, as I've always said, the common Muslim does not mean he's

01:02:53 --> 01:02:56

dumb. He's just not a specialist in Islam. He's as smart as anybody

01:02:56 --> 01:03:01

else in his field, just not. When I ask you to make when you make an

01:03:01 --> 01:03:05

assessment about a masjid, you probably don't go and look at the

01:03:05 --> 01:03:08

theological points of this mosque. You just look around and see if it

01:03:08 --> 01:03:13

smells funny, right? You start people praying on stones, or doing

01:03:13 --> 01:03:16

some funny business, right? And you're like, there's no way this

01:03:16 --> 01:03:20

is Islam. Right? And you see like something like, I've been

01:03:20 --> 01:03:23

worshipping Allah for 30 years. I know how to pray, right does know

01:03:23 --> 01:03:27

how to pray. I've been around the block. Allah furnishes and he

01:03:27 --> 01:03:31

makes innovations become a straight physically in your, in

01:03:31 --> 01:03:33

your eyes. You see it when I was young.

01:03:34 --> 01:03:37

For a long time, I don't even know my religion was to be honest with

01:03:37 --> 01:03:41

you. We were Egyptians. That's what I knew. We once watched and

01:03:41 --> 01:03:44

we were watching us stay up on Friday and Saturday night with my

01:03:44 --> 01:03:47

dad on the couch. Right. And we'd watch hockey games once I'm after

01:03:47 --> 01:03:52

a hockey game was a National Geographics, and they had a thing

01:03:52 --> 01:03:56

on hedge. Now this is the 80s this like 1987 This did not happen

01:03:56 --> 01:04:00

right? Here woke me out. This is us. Right? This is Islam. It's a

01:04:00 --> 01:04:03

whole documentary about Islam. We watched it. I saw the kava for the

01:04:03 --> 01:04:06

first time. And he's like, this is us, right? My dad was so pumped.

01:04:08 --> 01:04:11

That it came the Shia. They bought Shia and their weapon, right. And

01:04:11 --> 01:04:14

I was like, oh, that's definitely not part of it. Right that week.

01:04:14 --> 01:04:17

And we're like, Nah, that's definitely not part of like,

01:04:17 --> 01:04:20

intuitively, you know, that's that's gotta mean, there's no way

01:04:20 --> 01:04:24

God's telling people to do this. Intuitively, you know, or you're

01:04:24 --> 01:04:27

disgusted by like, please tell me that's not us. Right, your fifth

01:04:27 --> 01:04:31

hotel, please say that's not us. Not us, not us. Okay, good. The

01:04:31 --> 01:04:33

first part was good. Going around the cabinet's wonderful, right.

01:04:34 --> 01:04:37

Smacking yourself hitting yourself? That there's no way

01:04:37 --> 01:04:40

that's I hope that's not us. And I'm looking closely at my desert.

01:04:40 --> 01:04:41

No, that's not us. I'm really

01:04:43 --> 01:04:47

fitrah fitrah. That's how you judge. Alright, so let's take the

01:04:47 --> 01:04:48

next question for Dr.

01:04:51 --> 01:04:55

Yaqoob. Let's go with right. Do you have anything or should I look

01:04:55 --> 01:04:56

it up here? Go ahead. Go ahead. Right

01:05:03 --> 01:05:03

Okay

01:05:10 --> 01:05:10

okay,

01:05:12 --> 01:05:13

how can we read more of your work?

01:05:14 --> 01:05:17

Yes. Tell us about your work. Tell us Do you have a website? Do you

01:05:17 --> 01:05:21

have you said you're a recluse? Yeah. You know, tell us tell us

01:05:21 --> 01:05:23

about where people can access your works.

01:05:25 --> 01:05:27

Because then he's not out there having a website going on Twitter,

01:05:27 --> 01:05:31

having battles, living, he's living in peace. So.

01:05:32 --> 01:05:35

So I finished my PhD, and I'm turning that into a book right

01:05:35 --> 01:05:35

now.

01:05:37 --> 01:05:39

But actually, for the last seven, eight years, I've been living in

01:05:39 --> 01:05:41

Turkey, and I focus on teaching,

01:05:43 --> 01:05:45

I find writing really difficult, I'm not going to lie to you, this

01:05:45 --> 01:05:49

is hard for me, I come from a regular working class background.

01:05:49 --> 01:05:52

And reading is tough for me. And my students will get surprised

01:05:52 --> 01:05:55

when I said, when I walk into a bookshop,

01:05:56 --> 01:06:00

I get anxiety. And I walk into a library, I hate it. And all my

01:06:00 --> 01:06:03

friends are scholars, and they collect books over and over, I

01:06:03 --> 01:06:07

give books away. So I say, Look, I'm done with this, you know, I've

01:06:07 --> 01:06:10

read it, I've read it 20 times, you benefited more from me, and I

01:06:10 --> 01:06:14

give them away. But the point I'm making is I came to the conclusion

01:06:14 --> 01:06:17

only recently in his last year or so that I want to write for

01:06:17 --> 01:06:22

Muslims. So my idea was now and now I've had, I've got some time

01:06:22 --> 01:06:25

to sit down and start writing is that I want to start publishing

01:06:25 --> 01:06:31

for Muslims. So I have my PhD, which is turning into a book of

01:06:31 --> 01:06:35

sending into a publisher, I'm just waiting on that. So that will come

01:06:35 --> 01:06:38

out. It was on your mind the constitutional revolution of 1908.

01:06:38 --> 01:06:42

Looking at how the Allama in particular looked at

01:06:42 --> 01:06:45

constitutional theory in Islamic history, and so forth. But that's

01:06:45 --> 01:06:48

a very technical piece. What I've realized more and more now is how

01:06:48 --> 01:06:52

could and the only reason why I got exposed to this is because of

01:06:52 --> 01:06:55

platforms like this when Muslims started asking questions. And I

01:06:55 --> 01:06:58

started to realize, okay, we don't know. And it's only now I'm

01:06:58 --> 01:07:01

starting to sit down and starting to, to write work. So I haven't

01:07:01 --> 01:07:05

written much in that sense. It's just my PC that's out there. A

01:07:05 --> 01:07:07

couple of articles in newspapers, and I'd probably some people

01:07:07 --> 01:07:12

yuckiness too, and so on. But now slowly, slowly, I'm, I'm going to

01:07:12 --> 01:07:16

be working towards writing for Muslims as a Muslim in the way

01:07:16 --> 01:07:21

that Muslims had written in the past. And academia just my day,

01:07:21 --> 01:07:25

I'm not. So I always say I'm not an academic, I just do academia.

01:07:25 --> 01:07:29

Okay. Right, in that sense, because I want to be, you know, I

01:07:29 --> 01:07:31

want to write for the community. So that's why you don't see much

01:07:31 --> 01:07:34

from me, because I emphasize much on teaching in that sense. And I

01:07:34 --> 01:07:38

that's what I did. Let's take this question. And before that, let's

01:07:39 --> 01:07:43

plug patreon.com/safina society.

01:07:45 --> 01:07:48

If you'd like to stream you go to patreon.com/safina Society and

01:07:48 --> 01:07:51

you'd be a supporter, a monthly supporter.

01:07:52 --> 01:07:53

Secondly,

01:07:55 --> 01:08:00

Dr. Harrison mean, if you need laser work done on your eyes, you

01:08:00 --> 01:08:01

go to Dr. Harrison meet in Toms River.

01:08:03 --> 01:08:05

And then you come up here and you hang out with Safina Sadie. And

01:08:05 --> 01:08:10

it's going to be a medical tourism to the to the most expensive

01:08:10 --> 01:08:12

country in the world. But that's okay. Probably England's more

01:08:12 --> 01:08:12

expensive.

01:08:13 --> 01:08:17

But do medical tourism here, go down to South Jersey, get your

01:08:17 --> 01:08:20

eyes fixed. And then come up to the studio and you can hang out

01:08:20 --> 01:08:22

with us where we have stuff going on.

01:08:24 --> 01:08:28

Almost seven days a week. Okay, now, let's get the next question

01:08:28 --> 01:08:29

chocolate Wallah.

01:08:30 --> 01:08:35

How does Dr. Ahmed feel about Huntington's clash of civilization

01:08:35 --> 01:08:37

thesis? It was dismissed widely by scholars.

01:08:38 --> 01:08:40

But doesn't it seem to be making more and more sense lately, um,

01:08:40 --> 01:08:43

when he wrote that there was like, it's not obvious, isn't obvious.

01:08:43 --> 01:08:46

We have a clash of civilizations. But firstly, tell us exactly

01:08:46 --> 01:08:50

define for us his thesis, summarize for it and tell us your

01:08:50 --> 01:08:50

views about it.

01:08:51 --> 01:08:54

So Huntington's ideas was, as you said, there's a clash of

01:08:54 --> 01:08:57

civilizations of Western civilization, and then

01:08:57 --> 01:09:00

predominantly non western civilization. But Islam in of

01:09:00 --> 01:09:05

itself was intriguing here is, on many occasions, Islam became

01:09:05 --> 01:09:09

reduced as the other. And many academics who were liberal at the

01:09:09 --> 01:09:14

time came to the conclusion that it is not a fair reflection of the

01:09:14 --> 01:09:17

world that we live in. There's no unified West, there's no uniformed

01:09:17 --> 01:09:22

wares, there's no uniformed, other and so forth. But what was

01:09:22 --> 01:09:27

interesting about while academics dismissed this idea, in real time,

01:09:27 --> 01:09:30

in the real world, regular people started to say, well hang on a

01:09:30 --> 01:09:34

minute. That doesn't make sense because they could see it. They

01:09:34 --> 01:09:38

could feel it, they can express it. And for me, when I was

01:09:38 --> 01:09:41

teaching my students I said, whether we're talking about

01:09:41 --> 01:09:46

physical wars, or physical civilizations, or so forth, and

01:09:46 --> 01:09:50

yes, in essence, for me as a Muslim, this is always a conflict

01:09:50 --> 01:09:53

between email and Cofer. Okay, that's how I teach it to my

01:09:53 --> 01:09:57

students, Eman and Cofer. an aquifer can be anything, it can be

01:09:57 --> 01:09:59

the culprit of the Mongol invasion. tocopherol

01:10:00 --> 01:10:04

crusades, communism whatnot. And so long as Muslims understand what

01:10:04 --> 01:10:10

Iman is, and what I mean by the idea of Islam and the idea of non

01:10:10 --> 01:10:13

Islam, and what that means, and they could be spillages, they

01:10:13 --> 01:10:17

could be crossovers and so forth, that's fine. But you have to have

01:10:17 --> 01:10:22

to some degree as a Muslim, a clear idea of what it is that you

01:10:22 --> 01:10:26

belong to. And, you know, I talk about the Palestinian issue, which

01:10:26 --> 01:10:29

is interesting when I talked about the Palestinian issue. One of the

01:10:29 --> 01:10:33

interesting things is when it was an issue of the Ummah, there was a

01:10:33 --> 01:10:36

clear marker of you belong to the Ummah and what was not part of the

01:10:36 --> 01:10:37

OMA right.

01:10:38 --> 01:10:41

But now what they've done is they've created an inclusionary

01:10:41 --> 01:10:45

and exclusionary attitude, which is quite different, which is, for

01:10:45 --> 01:10:50

example, inclusionary, is that we belong to humanity. So Muslims are

01:10:50 --> 01:10:55

just reduced to that. They no longer exist. And exclusionary,

01:10:55 --> 01:10:59

this is just a Palestinian issue. So either way, what you noticed,

01:10:59 --> 01:11:04

is in inclusionary, identity, the Muslim identity is not there. And

01:11:04 --> 01:11:08

in the exclusionary identity, the Muslim identity is not there. So

01:11:08 --> 01:11:10

what is it? How does this fit in regard to that paradigm, what you

01:11:10 --> 01:11:13

realize then, is that this is not the paradigm in which we judge

01:11:13 --> 01:11:16

from. So for me, I came to the conclusion when I teach my

01:11:16 --> 01:11:20

students, they look, when you're learning something, whether it's

01:11:20 --> 01:11:23

Hunterdon theory or not, is irrelevant. The Islamic theory is

01:11:23 --> 01:11:27

quite simple. There's a world of Eman, and then there's a world

01:11:27 --> 01:11:31

that is not. And you have to strive towards establishing that.

01:11:33 --> 01:11:37

Check. Not many people were asking about book recommendations, even

01:11:37 --> 01:11:41

myself, Islamic history books, and books on Orientalism, from this

01:11:41 --> 01:11:44

perspective, what recommendations do you have?

01:11:45 --> 01:11:49

So this is the number one question I get. And in this part of the

01:11:49 --> 01:11:52

world, and, you know, it's difficult, like, you know, we

01:11:52 --> 01:11:55

started this talk with the machinery and so forth. And, you

01:11:55 --> 01:11:59

know, like I, I gave this analogy to the kids the other day about

01:11:59 --> 01:12:02

general Pyxis, and Attack on Titans, when he says in order to,

01:12:03 --> 01:12:06

to, in order to have a convincing lie, you have to mix the truth in

01:12:06 --> 01:12:09

it. And so one of the things that you have in Western academia is

01:12:09 --> 01:12:13

these challenges. So what I try to do to people is I give them a list

01:12:13 --> 01:12:17

of books that, that that I think are good, as an academic and a

01:12:17 --> 01:12:20

historian, as myself and somebody who's a graduate, I then try to

01:12:20 --> 01:12:24

explain to them what problems I have with those works. So I don't

01:12:24 --> 01:12:26

just carte blanche, give them two books, I say, okay, these are the

01:12:26 --> 01:12:30

books. And these are the problems that I found in these books, from

01:12:30 --> 01:12:34

my perspective. But overall, the machinery is what we were saying

01:12:34 --> 01:12:38

it doesn't speak of any slip of Islam, and our history in a way

01:12:39 --> 01:12:42

that resonates with us. And so we still feel disjointed and

01:12:42 --> 01:12:46

disconnected. And so we're at that stage right now, for the stop gap.

01:12:46 --> 01:12:50

Right now I can write a list of books. Things don't come off the

01:12:50 --> 01:12:52

top of my head because Islamic history so wide, so people need to

01:12:52 --> 01:12:56

tell me what they want to know. And I can, there is critique

01:12:56 --> 01:12:59

literature in academia in of itself, to be fair, there are

01:12:59 --> 01:13:01

academics like while Hala who critique,

01:13:02 --> 01:13:07

modernity, and Orientalism and so forth. There are other thinkers

01:13:07 --> 01:13:11

decolonial thinkers like Salman, Syed, and so forth, that critique

01:13:11 --> 01:13:13

the way things are written. So there's a lot of work in the

01:13:13 --> 01:13:18

academic tradition. Surprisingly, Muslims notice stuff already, just

01:13:18 --> 01:13:21

by the everyday experience, but don't articulate it in the same

01:13:21 --> 01:13:24

way. So I joke, when I say for example, that

01:13:25 --> 01:13:29

Dave Chappelle is a vernacular intellectual. He, he's saying

01:13:29 --> 01:13:33

nothing different than what's been said in the academic books. He

01:13:33 --> 01:13:36

just makes it real for people in society so they can understand. So

01:13:36 --> 01:13:39

we have those experiences. I guess what we're looking for is those

01:13:39 --> 01:13:43

books which are lacking. But what I can do for the stock cup for

01:13:43 --> 01:13:48

now, is I can help by making a list of books where and help

01:13:48 --> 01:13:52

people navigate that. But in the long term, what I the point of

01:13:52 --> 01:13:56

this podcast was to encourage people, to encourage people to

01:13:56 --> 01:14:00

write our own words, from our own voices, we have our own criticism

01:14:00 --> 01:14:03

and so forth. Just a quick follow up on.

01:14:04 --> 01:14:04

Yes, good.

01:14:06 --> 01:14:07

Quick follow up on that.

01:14:08 --> 01:14:11

Just for example, I'm sure you've heard about it last Islamic

01:14:11 --> 01:14:13

history is merrily khateeb.

01:14:14 --> 01:14:18

This is what I'm familiar with in Islamic history. And then also in

01:14:18 --> 01:14:21

Sierra, I was wondering if there's anything, you know, there's the

01:14:22 --> 01:14:26

Mohamed Salah Salem, from the authentic sources, I believe it's

01:14:26 --> 01:14:30

called is do you have anything to say on these? So philosophy teams

01:14:30 --> 01:14:31

book is

01:14:32 --> 01:14:37

it's a general primer. I'm sure he his intention was not for it to

01:14:37 --> 01:14:42

become as popular as it did. And I'm sure he has, you know, many

01:14:42 --> 01:14:45

positions in which he would like to write something better. But it

01:14:45 --> 01:14:48

what it tells you is the lack of something, the fact that our book

01:14:48 --> 01:14:53

became so popular is an indication of an absence, right? That's,

01:14:53 --> 01:14:57

that's the book that people always tend to, in that sense. So, once

01:14:57 --> 01:15:00

again, that's an indication as for the critique of

01:15:00 --> 01:15:02

that book, I think it was written at a particular time where

01:15:03 --> 01:15:07

it did a particular service, but we need to click on for that. And

01:15:07 --> 01:15:09

you know, there's no criticism to finance in that sense. In regards

01:15:09 --> 01:15:13

to biographies, I always remind everyone that the main by first

01:15:13 --> 01:15:15

main biography of Russell solemn is the Quran.

01:15:16 --> 01:15:19

So people mustn't forget that whenever people ask me what Bible

01:15:19 --> 01:15:23

they read the Quran actually to understand, you know, I, when I

01:15:23 --> 01:15:25

was in Syria, when I used to live there, they used to be an island,

01:15:25 --> 01:15:30

he used to, he used to teach Syrah in the order of revelation,

01:15:31 --> 01:15:33

and then go along and teach and that way, it was beautiful. I've

01:15:33 --> 01:15:37

never seen that done before. So that was one but for my students

01:15:37 --> 01:15:40

who are studying English and so forth, there are many Syrah books

01:15:40 --> 01:15:43

in English nowadays. I mean, I use Mohammed Al Azhar is fickle Syrah.

01:15:43 --> 01:15:46

I like that because he explained something. And then even Sheikh

01:15:46 --> 01:15:50

boaties jurisprudence of Sierra is not a bad book. And I tried to use

01:15:50 --> 01:15:55

them together in that way, as a way of helping so yeah, what did

01:15:55 --> 01:15:56

you cover so far?

01:15:57 --> 01:16:00

book recommendations. Let me talk to say this about the motive

01:16:00 --> 01:16:06

issue. Amazing story about that chick, North Saunders gave us

01:16:06 --> 01:16:11

Sunday, about how the Mohammed had done just an example of motive. He

01:16:11 --> 01:16:14

came out he went to a certain area called Badal. And he started doing

01:16:14 --> 01:16:18

Dawa. And he enjoyed immense success doing though,

01:16:19 --> 01:16:21

right away, it was fire.

01:16:22 --> 01:16:25

So much so that the scholars then said,

01:16:27 --> 01:16:28

Well, he got arrested,

01:16:30 --> 01:16:33

he got arrested, and he went through a trial. And he came out

01:16:33 --> 01:16:36

of it. And he returned to do his data. So the scholars wrote him a

01:16:36 --> 01:16:39

book, but wrote him a letter, one of the scholars.

01:16:40 --> 01:16:41

And he said that

01:16:42 --> 01:16:46

we were worried about you, when you had all that success,

01:16:47 --> 01:16:50

because it was like you're getting success right away. So we were

01:16:50 --> 01:16:53

worried that some insincerity and love of the dunya love of the

01:16:53 --> 01:16:58

popularity would become your motive. We didn't know what's

01:16:58 --> 01:17:02

where your motive was, until you got arrested. And you went through

01:17:02 --> 01:17:05

that trial, and then came out still doing Dawa. Now we know that

01:17:05 --> 01:17:08

your motive is good. Like now we know that you're not doing it for

01:17:08 --> 01:17:12

the popularity, you're not doing it for anything else.

01:17:13 --> 01:17:19

The love of people, etc. So that's the concept and idea of that part

01:17:19 --> 01:17:23

of our religion is the issue of the motive. Right? So the history,

01:17:23 --> 01:17:26

the historian is not some machine.

01:17:27 --> 01:17:31

Who was purely objective, everyone has an agenda. Someone had asked

01:17:31 --> 01:17:38

something about ottoman, what is this? Ottoman missile? Was Ottoman

01:17:38 --> 01:17:43

missile perfect. What is this? What are they saying? myjalah.

01:17:43 --> 01:17:49

Much medalla is what a newspaper. It's a civil codebook that the

01:17:49 --> 01:17:55

Ottomans created. So this is an interesting. So basically, for the

01:17:55 --> 01:17:58

Magellan, for those of you don't understand is the in the late

01:17:58 --> 01:18:03

night in the 19th century, in particular, when the Ottomans are

01:18:03 --> 01:18:07

getting involved in international law, and borders are being defined

01:18:07 --> 01:18:10

and the world is changing in regards to trade. And so on. That

01:18:10 --> 01:18:14

in terms of civil law, initially, there was an assumption that these

01:18:14 --> 01:18:18

laws were positivist laws, and so forth. So what the Ottomans did is

01:18:18 --> 01:18:23

they created a book a primer, on the issue to do with trade and

01:18:23 --> 01:18:27

civil law, from the Hanafi perspective. And there's a section

01:18:27 --> 01:18:30

in it, which says that, you know, that law has been borrowed from

01:18:30 --> 01:18:34

other parts of the field of jurisprudence. People assumed that

01:18:34 --> 01:18:37

that was the other schools of thought it wasn't. He was on

01:18:37 --> 01:18:42

earth, in particular, drawing from the ideas of Aberdeen, the Hanafi,

01:18:42 --> 01:18:45

jurists from Damascus. And they created a book, which is a one

01:18:45 --> 01:18:49

size fits all, because the scholar at the time the Justice Minister,

01:18:49 --> 01:18:53

I'm tempted Pasha, was under the impression that there were not

01:18:53 --> 01:18:58

enough qualified scholars across the Empire, that were able to

01:18:58 --> 01:19:03

adjudicate law and civil matters due to the introduction of the

01:19:03 --> 01:19:06

changing conditions of the 19th century. So he created a one size

01:19:06 --> 01:19:10

fit all primer for them. The problem is, is somebody complained

01:19:10 --> 01:19:13

about this, because they believed that the book format will take

01:19:13 --> 01:19:17

away from the format of the use the judge using their own

01:19:18 --> 01:19:21

jurisdiction, and so forth. But since then, it's become an

01:19:21 --> 01:19:22

accepted

01:19:23 --> 01:19:27

form of law. It was used in many parts of the world for a very long

01:19:27 --> 01:19:30

time. And then after the nation state was formed, many other

01:19:30 --> 01:19:31

nation states removed that

01:19:33 --> 01:19:36

they still have it in the southern state of Georgia bottle in

01:19:36 --> 01:19:40

Malaysia that they still use it, parts of Afghanistan highly

01:19:40 --> 01:19:43

forward. And it was intriguing when the Israelis had occupied

01:19:43 --> 01:19:48

Palestine, that they were the nation that used it the longest in

01:19:48 --> 01:19:51

the region, because they didn't have another local to use and they

01:19:51 --> 01:19:55

will use a net which is interesting, which they took from

01:19:55 --> 01:19:57

the Palestinian. So it's an interesting

01:19:58 --> 01:20:00

study that people do on

01:20:00 --> 01:20:03

And there's an academic buy in here in America called Samia Ube.

01:20:03 --> 01:20:06

He sort of written about the Islamic origins of the Medallia,

01:20:06 --> 01:20:09

because many previous academics made the argument that it wasn't

01:20:09 --> 01:20:12

Islamic. But it was a secular locode. But it was because he was

01:20:12 --> 01:20:17

a book of codification. And that was new. I gotcha. Let's bring up

01:20:17 --> 01:20:22

the subject. Sh says, is it fair to criticize criticize Muslims,

01:20:22 --> 01:20:25

rejecting the historical critical method about the Islamic sources

01:20:25 --> 01:20:29

yet to embrace its conclusions? The Bible being corrupted? Now

01:20:29 --> 01:20:32

here's here's my first answer, then I'm going to give it to you.

01:20:34 --> 01:20:39

As I said earlier, the premise of history is separating fact from

01:20:39 --> 01:20:44

fiction is a rational endeavor, it should be the same everywhere. The

01:20:44 --> 01:20:48

presuppositions are what is a weaken attack, the presupposition

01:20:48 --> 01:20:51

is something that is not a rational basis, you just believe

01:20:51 --> 01:20:51

it.

01:20:53 --> 01:20:55

You may have your reasons for believing it. But

01:20:56 --> 01:20:59

for the further Western Renaissance onwards, historians,

01:20:59 --> 01:21:05

it is suspicion towards any religious institution, because we

01:21:05 --> 01:21:08

were lied to by the Catholic Church. Therefore, we go to the

01:21:08 --> 01:21:12

Japanese religion, and we have the same attitude towards their

01:21:12 --> 01:21:15

authorities. Your authorities are trying to do you like someone who

01:21:15 --> 01:21:19

got abused by their parents. They think all parents are bad. Right?

01:21:19 --> 01:21:22

That's, that's really the summary. That's really what I believe about

01:21:22 --> 01:21:24

what, in relation to the Renaissance thinkers and

01:21:24 --> 01:21:30

Catholicism. It's that complex, right. So that presupposition is

01:21:30 --> 01:21:35

what we cannot accept, we don't we have no reason to suspect our

01:21:35 --> 01:21:36

original scholars

01:21:38 --> 01:21:42

of duping us. Do we have that? Firstly, our we don't have a

01:21:42 --> 01:21:49

church, all of our Hadith. And Quran was a public endeavor,

01:21:49 --> 01:21:53

anybody could go and become a hadith and study and come to

01:21:53 --> 01:21:58

critically, who was Bukhari in the first place, a boy from Persia,

01:21:59 --> 01:22:03

who because this endeavor is public money study with the

01:22:03 --> 01:22:06

Persians and studied in Mecca, Medina, wrote in Medina, his first

01:22:06 --> 01:22:10

book of religion, at the age of 17, you couldn't have done that in

01:22:10 --> 01:22:13

the Catholic tradition, you would have to have signed up for the

01:22:13 --> 01:22:17

organization within a specific organization is no free for all.

01:22:17 --> 01:22:22

So the way I would look at it is that we don't have a

01:22:22 --> 01:22:26

presupposition that the Bible is corrupted, we have a fact that is

01:22:26 --> 01:22:31

corrupted. Not only a fact that it's corrupted. And it's not

01:22:31 --> 01:22:35

something that is taken on faith, it's demonstrable, will show us

01:22:35 --> 01:22:38

the original Bible. You don't even have it in the original original

01:22:38 --> 01:22:41

language for us to assess if it's corrupted, whereas the Syriac

01:22:41 --> 01:22:46

Bible, it was in Syriac, where is the Syriac Bible, right? You don't

01:22:46 --> 01:22:50

even have it to prove it was corrupted, you have translations

01:22:50 --> 01:22:51

of translations of translations.

01:22:52 --> 01:22:58

So upon that, what the critics of the Bible will tell you are just

01:22:58 --> 01:23:02

the details that we think the author of this book

01:23:03 --> 01:23:06

is the same as the author of that book, and we need to get audio tie

01:23:06 --> 01:23:09

on here, right to do this, because he's the expert on this, right?

01:23:10 --> 01:23:15

And you say, Oh, well hold on a second. You just said that nobody

01:23:15 --> 01:23:19

should tell your history except those people right? And I don't

01:23:19 --> 01:23:23

accept every non Muslim talking about the Quran should be shut

01:23:23 --> 01:23:26

down. Right? Then why would I accept for Ali a Thai

01:23:27 --> 01:23:31

to talk about the Bible? Because I'm not here to defend your Bible.

01:23:31 --> 01:23:35

I'm here to defend the Quran. I would not accept it for me, right?

01:23:36 --> 01:23:37

If What's that,

01:23:39 --> 01:23:43

sit, thank you. Save now, Isa is our Nabhi you are lying about our

01:23:43 --> 01:23:48

Nibi. And indeed, We are eligible indeed. The injeel we are older,

01:23:48 --> 01:23:52

we are more worthy of the Bible. We would honor the Bible more than

01:23:52 --> 01:23:58

them. The Bible just put in like, I go to a pizzeria and I see Jesus

01:23:58 --> 01:24:01

picture on the toilet like on the bathroom like in a frame. like

01:24:01 --> 01:24:04

wait a second what? I want to take it down I didn't believe in it.

01:24:04 --> 01:24:08

Right? I literally took it and I put it somewhere else. Even we

01:24:08 --> 01:24:11

don't depicts a nice so we don't believe in that. Right?

01:24:12 --> 01:24:15

You I still took it from this pizzeria.

01:24:17 --> 01:24:21

I took it down. I would not accept it. Right. The Bible is our book

01:24:21 --> 01:24:24

in the sense that it is the word of Allah, not the current Bible,

01:24:24 --> 01:24:28

obviously. So we have a concern for it, so we can't speak on it.

01:24:29 --> 01:24:33

Secondly, Let's hypothetically say there was something totally

01:24:33 --> 01:24:37

different than Christians defend yourself. Stop him, right. I'm not

01:24:37 --> 01:24:40

gonna stop him for you from saying the truth. You stopped him. So

01:24:40 --> 01:24:44

that's my response to how the historical critical at this point

01:24:44 --> 01:24:50

that the presupposition towards Christianity was true. It doesn't

01:24:50 --> 01:24:53

apply to Islam. That's why we're not accepting the presupposition

01:24:53 --> 01:24:57

that we take with suspect the authoritative religious narrative.

01:24:58 --> 01:25:00

For me, the issue

01:25:00 --> 01:25:04

Use the Quran and the Bible are just two different books that have

01:25:04 --> 01:25:06

two different traditions and operate two different ways.

01:25:06 --> 01:25:11

Actually, the historical critical tradition was a way of critiquing

01:25:11 --> 01:25:14

the Bible that we Muslims didn't invent. It was invented from your

01:25:14 --> 01:25:17

own tradition, that's what you did. We had a different

01:25:17 --> 01:25:21

methodology because of Quran, when Quran is collected is step by

01:25:21 --> 01:25:25

step, every single single way, we have a particular historical

01:25:25 --> 01:25:29

record the way we did it, they like apples and oranges. And the

01:25:29 --> 01:25:34

idea of comparing the Quran to the Bible's, to some degree is, is not

01:25:34 --> 01:25:39

helpful. I mean, only now, in the more modern period, a comparative

01:25:39 --> 01:25:42

could be the idea of the translations of the Quran. Right,

01:25:42 --> 01:25:45

but even then source proper, we still say that's the Quran, that's

01:25:45 --> 01:25:49

a translation. And there are problems regarding translation

01:25:49 --> 01:25:52

because there is a power in regards to translation, either you

01:25:52 --> 01:25:56

have a literal translation, or you derive meaning from translation.

01:25:56 --> 01:25:59

And if you're deriving meaning, that's where the issue is. So this

01:25:59 --> 01:26:03

is, and that's different from topsail. So in regards to the way

01:26:03 --> 01:26:06

the Quran is, as a book, and historically how it's collated

01:26:06 --> 01:26:11

and, and it stands, it stands alone, independent from that

01:26:11 --> 01:26:15

methodology, and that methodology was designed to actually go after

01:26:15 --> 01:26:18

its own Bible. So these are two different books. And I think

01:26:18 --> 01:26:22

Muslims need to be aware of how the, the history of the Bible is

01:26:22 --> 01:26:26

how the Bible operates, and how, what its function is as as a book,

01:26:26 --> 01:26:30

and what the Quran is. And I think that's, sometimes I asked my

01:26:30 --> 01:26:34

students, and they seem to assume the Bible and the Quran are the

01:26:34 --> 01:26:36

same. I said, No, these are totally different books in the way

01:26:36 --> 01:26:40

they are. But this is verbatim the words of ALLAH to Allah. The Bible

01:26:40 --> 01:26:44

doesn't make that type of claim. These are the words of Allah. So

01:26:44 --> 01:26:48

in the way that the Quran is compiled, collected, and, and

01:26:48 --> 01:26:51

stands, it's different. And I think we need to understand that

01:26:51 --> 01:26:55

was there any time when the orientalists deemed the Quran, a

01:26:55 --> 01:26:56

book that is

01:26:59 --> 01:27:00

unreliable?

01:27:01 --> 01:27:03

I mean, they've tried to attack the Quran on many occasions.

01:27:05 --> 01:27:08

But what's interesting here is they fail. You know, the Quran

01:27:08 --> 01:27:11

stands independent still. So this is what's intriguing as a

01:27:11 --> 01:27:14

historian, is you realize that actually, the way they go off the

01:27:14 --> 01:27:19

Muslims is not Quran. It's by other methods and means, right?

01:27:19 --> 01:27:22

Because the Quran is so standard. And every time they've gone off to

01:27:22 --> 01:27:26

Quran, it stood independent, and it stood independent from us and

01:27:26 --> 01:27:30

even Muslims, you know, they they have had a critical eye on it on

01:27:30 --> 01:27:34

tradition, but the Quran is stood independent, and I haven't seen I

01:27:34 --> 01:27:37

haven't seen a successful Orientalist to this date, even

01:27:37 --> 01:27:40

before they made all all types of assumptions. And you've spoken to

01:27:40 --> 01:27:44

orientalist, what's intriguing, is they make assumptions in the way

01:27:44 --> 01:27:47

they speak to Quran. And the minute they come across a Muslim

01:27:47 --> 01:27:50

who knows what he's saying. They just crumble

01:27:51 --> 01:27:56

consistently crumble. Just write anything like it. And I'll give

01:27:56 --> 01:27:58

you an example when I was in Syria once and I was learning Arabic.

01:27:58 --> 01:27:59

And I've said this to

01:28:00 --> 01:28:04

a friend of mine who's a Krishna came to me. And she said to me,

01:28:04 --> 01:28:07

how can you follow a book you don't understand? Now at that

01:28:07 --> 01:28:09

time, I was a young kid, I didn't understand much. And I got really

01:28:09 --> 01:28:12

annoyed. And because in England, that would be a triggering

01:28:12 --> 01:28:15

question. So I turned to and say, How can you follow a book? You

01:28:15 --> 01:28:18

don't? You do understand? I cannot follow book, you do understand

01:28:18 --> 01:28:20

that. She just looked at me and walked out the room. That's

01:28:20 --> 01:28:23

amazing. Right? That was a great answer. And this was the

01:28:23 --> 01:28:26

difference. She came back the next day. So I'm really sorry. I didn't

01:28:26 --> 01:28:28

mean to offend you, but blah, blah, blah. I didn't, I was fine.

01:28:28 --> 01:28:32

But can I just ask you a question? My question still stands. Because

01:28:32 --> 01:28:34

now you're asking me, I don't understand some asking you you

01:28:34 --> 01:28:38

understand it, right? Explain it to me, whose words are they? Are

01:28:38 --> 01:28:40

they not the words of ALLAH to Allah. And they also just, I don't

01:28:40 --> 01:28:43

want to talk about this. And this is not me trying to be aggressive.

01:28:43 --> 01:28:46

It was me trying to learn. And this is what I mean, when when you

01:28:46 --> 01:28:51

see people talking about Quran. I mean, they did the critique

01:28:51 --> 01:28:54

culture collapses overnight. And Muslims are exceptionally robust.

01:28:54 --> 01:28:58

And you can see that they can't touch good. And so then they go

01:28:58 --> 01:29:01

through these other nefarious ways, like Hadith literature, like

01:29:01 --> 01:29:05

history, like morality and so forth as a way of going after

01:29:05 --> 01:29:08

Muslims. And, you know, this is why I keep telling Muslims have a

01:29:08 --> 01:29:14

strong connection with the Quran. There is risk of late there was a

01:29:14 --> 01:29:18

guy who was I think, it started off as a shear. I think he's an

01:29:18 --> 01:29:22

atheist. No, but he was actually my boss said, Yo, and he was nice

01:29:22 --> 01:29:28

to me, right? But eventually he thought I was an Allawi. Right.

01:29:28 --> 01:29:30

And when I heard that's what he said about me, honestly, my heart

01:29:30 --> 01:29:35

flooded. I was so happy that he said that I owe a loved bear

01:29:35 --> 01:29:38

witness. Right? Because Allah was like an Arab term. It's a

01:29:38 --> 01:29:42

derogatory term of someone who loves Allah. I was like, He's He's

01:29:42 --> 01:29:46

the witness. Right. And the witness of your of your enemy is

01:29:46 --> 01:29:49

the best as the saying, and I was I didn't have animosity to him at

01:29:49 --> 01:29:53

the time. And I still haven't we left on fine terms. His name is

01:29:53 --> 01:29:56

Shadi Nelson, and he's now I think, at Oxford, but he his

01:29:56 --> 01:30:00

Arabic is powerful. He really knows his Arabic really, I

01:30:00 --> 01:30:04

I didn't read his thesis. But his whole thesis is that the Quran is

01:30:04 --> 01:30:07

not the same as what we imagined it to be. But

01:30:08 --> 01:30:14

my lay response is, let's go around to the world, pick up the

01:30:14 --> 01:30:19

muscle off the shelves, say myself, right? So if what you're

01:30:19 --> 01:30:22

saying has any truth to it, that's why I said sometimes you don't

01:30:22 --> 01:30:25

always need to look at the evidence is point by point, look

01:30:25 --> 01:30:28

at the fruits, if your claim has truth to it, where is the

01:30:28 --> 01:30:33

divergence? Now, if you're saying there's a divergence, okay, if I

01:30:34 --> 01:30:40

went, if I'm trying to go north, and I went, one degree, off, one

01:30:40 --> 01:30:43

degree off, north, straight up, I was making, I'm driving straight,

01:30:43 --> 01:30:48

but I want one degree off. After an hour of driving, I should be

01:30:48 --> 01:30:52

far away from my location, after two hours of driving. If I'm

01:30:52 --> 01:30:57

driving from Texas, to Montana, whatever is above Texas, after

01:30:57 --> 01:31:00

three days of driving, I should be way off course, just by one

01:31:00 --> 01:31:06

degree. So where are the opposing massage if? Where is the confusion

01:31:06 --> 01:31:09

of a Muslim? That's why I thought, you know, this is not really worth

01:31:09 --> 01:31:12

my time, this argument, this attack on Islam is not really

01:31:12 --> 01:31:17

worth my time. Because where's the result? If there truly was a

01:31:17 --> 01:31:20

divergence, as he says, that should have trickled down? And

01:31:20 --> 01:31:22

there should be like four or five, six books.

01:31:24 --> 01:31:28

All right. There is another one. He's a German, right, a German guy

01:31:28 --> 01:31:32

on Twitter. And I'm thinking to myself, What is your business? But

01:31:32 --> 01:31:35

what you should be? Does this person should not be talking at

01:31:35 --> 01:31:37

all? You have no interest? You're not a Muslim? You What is your

01:31:37 --> 01:31:39

business talking about our book? Okay.

01:31:40 --> 01:31:44

I would go do that with the tota or with Israeli sources, see what

01:31:44 --> 01:31:48

will happen to you, your life will be shut down so fast. You don't

01:31:48 --> 01:31:52

even know what happened to you. If you went and tried to do what the

01:31:52 --> 01:31:56

games you're playing with us with Israeli sources, or their original

01:31:56 --> 01:32:00

history? or what have you. Your life will be shut down completely,

01:32:00 --> 01:32:01

right?

01:32:03 --> 01:32:06

Faster than Kanye. Kanye has been shot, how many billions? Has he

01:32:06 --> 01:32:11

lost? For talking about just a word he said on a podcast? Right?

01:32:11 --> 01:32:12

So in any event,

01:32:14 --> 01:32:19

there are attacks on the Quran. The problem with it is that where

01:32:19 --> 01:32:23

is it? So when I go to South America, when I go to Pakistan,

01:32:23 --> 01:32:28

give me any Muslim nation throw me in any city in the world, any city

01:32:28 --> 01:32:30

in the world? Within an hour I could be in a masjid.

01:32:31 --> 01:32:35

Right with the technology that we have today. And within an hour I

01:32:35 --> 01:32:38

will have the Quran in my hand. It's the same Quran. You give me

01:32:38 --> 01:32:43

half swash duty you might even the Quran that's what they bring us

01:32:43 --> 01:32:48

99% of the Messiah have on the shelves of the world or between

01:32:48 --> 01:32:51

Hudson wash. And that's the practical reality of things.

01:32:51 --> 01:32:54

Right? So the attacks on the Quran,

01:32:55 --> 01:33:00

they they fail on that practice standpoint, that there is no fruit

01:33:00 --> 01:33:05

of it. Right? And you won't go into a masjid and actually find

01:33:05 --> 01:33:08

any debate on the Quran. So that's why they as you said they have to

01:33:08 --> 01:33:11

go on the Hadith. Alright, let's take a couple more questions then

01:33:11 --> 01:33:15

then we'll be finished. Would you say that Orientalism presupposes

01:33:15 --> 01:33:18

the falsity of Islam? Yes. He said that. All right, he answered that

01:33:18 --> 01:33:20

it presupposes that God doesn't exist.

01:33:21 --> 01:33:24

Islamic history has presuppositions Allah is judging

01:33:24 --> 01:33:25

the writing of this book.

01:33:27 --> 01:33:31

We are only justified in writing about past peoples What is good

01:33:31 --> 01:33:34

about them and what we can benefit from them. Of course, if they if

01:33:34 --> 01:33:37

they made a public blunder, we can talk about the public blender like

01:33:37 --> 01:33:41

a Khalifa or sometimes salt on or whatever. And three

01:33:42 --> 01:33:46

okay, what is the third one that I said is that the subject has

01:33:46 --> 01:33:47

rights.

01:33:48 --> 01:33:52

So turn this on that he has the right his private life is off

01:33:52 --> 01:33:56

limits us. We can we can talk about his public policies and we

01:33:56 --> 01:33:59

should everything should be on the record exactly what he said and we

01:33:59 --> 01:34:04

should analyze it. Okay. But his public is private life that's off

01:34:04 --> 01:34:05

limits.

01:34:06 --> 01:34:08

The dead have rights over us.

01:34:13 --> 01:34:17

I think that not enough is is telling us or in the fees is

01:34:17 --> 01:34:21

telling us that he's at Harvard. And I think that there was a

01:34:21 --> 01:34:25

brother, what was his name? Who, who went back and forth with him?

01:34:25 --> 01:34:26

If you're her?

01:34:28 --> 01:34:30

What's that? No, he's Fareed.

01:34:31 --> 01:34:35

What's this name for it? Yeah, he's a seller. He's a Salafi

01:34:35 --> 01:34:40

activist on Twitter, but he went after shedding also and he went

01:34:40 --> 01:34:44

toe to toe with him. I guess. That's what it seemed like to me

01:34:44 --> 01:34:48

showing. Here's a PDF. Here's what the quote is in your book. But

01:34:48 --> 01:34:51

here's what I think it was like.

01:34:53 --> 01:34:58

It was, but he actually said so he has videos on that. Again, I never

01:34:58 --> 01:34:59

actually went into this

01:35:00 --> 01:35:04

Because the fruit isn't there, right you're you're showing us a

01:35:04 --> 01:35:08

divergence, or the entire OMA has arrived at the same spot. After

01:35:08 --> 01:35:12

all this time, a millennium and a half a millennia people don't

01:35:12 --> 01:35:14

understand what that means. Because the word 1400 years has

01:35:14 --> 01:35:18

been said so much. But a millennium, the United States has

01:35:18 --> 01:35:23

only been alive for like 1/3 1/5

01:35:25 --> 01:35:29

of Islamic history 1/5, a millennium and a half.

01:35:30 --> 01:35:34

And we have arrived at the same location with the Quran. Now go we

01:35:34 --> 01:35:35

show me in the tafsir.

01:35:36 --> 01:35:41

Let's go back 700 years, let's go back 1000 years and give me 10

01:35:41 --> 01:35:45

Tough secrets from 1000 years ago, the same book, right? So we know

01:35:45 --> 01:35:49

that it's the same book. So on the ground, there is no evidence for

01:35:49 --> 01:35:52

what you're saying. And that's more powerful than for you to give

01:35:52 --> 01:35:57

me a manuscript here and dama there. That's that's the terrible

01:35:57 --> 01:36:00

argument, right? That's not moving the the rate of the needle at all,

01:36:00 --> 01:36:05

that does not move the needle at all right? Can I just say, just

01:36:05 --> 01:36:08

really surely in our tradition, the Obama didn't feel the need to

01:36:08 --> 01:36:12

continue to facilitate this. So I was reading the works of Mustafa,

01:36:12 --> 01:36:15

somebody, I read it often. And he said, the day that the island

01:36:15 --> 01:36:20

becomes encapsulated by the feelings of the mob, then that's

01:36:20 --> 01:36:24

the day the album is lost. That's called the shadow. Right? Right.

01:36:24 --> 01:36:28

So the only time the Obama used to get involved in these debates is

01:36:28 --> 01:36:31

when he was a real sickness in the community. But apart from that,

01:36:32 --> 01:36:34

you're going to be putting fires out all the time. And then you're

01:36:34 --> 01:36:38

going to be occupied by these things, rather than the real work,

01:36:38 --> 01:36:42

did, did these things are just attempts to try to keep Muslims

01:36:42 --> 01:36:45

busy so that they can do the real work. I'm not saying not to do

01:36:45 --> 01:36:48

this from time to time in your communities. But just be aware

01:36:48 --> 01:36:52

that continuously feeling the need to continuously prove your

01:36:52 --> 01:36:57

existence, you don't need to do that, okay, just start working on

01:36:57 --> 01:36:59

your tradition for your communities and strengthen

01:36:59 --> 01:37:03

yourself. You don't need validation, from academia about

01:37:03 --> 01:37:06

your existence, you don't need that. And the more you start

01:37:06 --> 01:37:09

getting a bonus all the time, it really takes you in it takes the

01:37:09 --> 01:37:13

best minds away, which is constantly, it's like a quagmire.

01:37:13 --> 01:37:16

They just get dragged into it. And that's all they're doing. And on

01:37:16 --> 01:37:20

this podcast on this, that podcast Can you keep on top of and you

01:37:20 --> 01:37:24

just see these, we're draining the life out of these people, because

01:37:24 --> 01:37:27

we as a community, are not taking responsibility of what's actually

01:37:27 --> 01:37:30

important in life. And you know, the funny thing when you say about

01:37:30 --> 01:37:35

that is that I would say that a good percentage of the students

01:37:35 --> 01:37:36

have knowledge in our community.

01:37:39 --> 01:37:44

This stuff is like the entry This is the break. This is the the

01:37:44 --> 01:37:45

peripheral

01:37:47 --> 01:37:50

thing that they may pay attention to when they're taking a breather.

01:37:51 --> 01:37:55

That's because actual Islam and Islamic communities we have meat

01:37:55 --> 01:37:56

and potatoes.

01:37:57 --> 01:38:00

We have Quran to study and memorize. We have thicker to that

01:38:00 --> 01:38:03

we have to hedge it to get up for. We have a good month to do. We

01:38:03 --> 01:38:06

have Shabaab and youth just to cater to We're busy. We have a

01:38:06 --> 01:38:11

soup kitchen, we got Fick to be learned. Right? I'll tell you that

01:38:11 --> 01:38:15

to be learned. That's the meat and potato that is a positive. So

01:38:15 --> 01:38:20

which what makes you ask to these groups again? Where's the positive

01:38:20 --> 01:38:23

that you're bringing to the world here? Like you're all in the

01:38:23 --> 01:38:26

deconstruction, it's all just destruction. All right, last

01:38:26 --> 01:38:29

question, why you bring it up for us? What is the last question that

01:38:29 --> 01:38:30

we have here? Shoot?

01:38:31 --> 01:38:36

Yeah, I'm not being heard. Yeah, I'll repeat it. No problem. I'll

01:38:36 --> 01:38:40

ask you about the series on assaults on Abdulhamid and maybe

01:38:40 --> 01:38:41

just

01:38:42 --> 01:38:43

at the end,

01:38:44 --> 01:38:48

I've mentioned that your own work instead of just deconstructing

01:38:48 --> 01:38:50

other things, what can we learn from

01:38:52 --> 01:38:55

you know, what your your studies in Ottoman history?

01:38:57 --> 01:39:00

So as I said, My own work is I'm looking at the dilemma. So one of

01:39:00 --> 01:39:04

the things that I noticed in late Ottoman history in particular is

01:39:04 --> 01:39:09

the narrative of the older man was absent. So I'm trying to in

01:39:09 --> 01:39:13

particular write works about the alma mater as a way of reminding

01:39:13 --> 01:39:16

people of the relevance of the ALMA as part of their memory.

01:39:17 --> 01:39:21

There's a huge, like blind spot we got in that period. And these

01:39:21 --> 01:39:24

people are important to us. They produce wonderful works, but they

01:39:24 --> 01:39:29

were very active. So I did collect work on writing on a particular

01:39:29 --> 01:39:32

island called Mustafa Sabri. And then I realized I was too young to

01:39:32 --> 01:39:36

read his biography. So I backed off, I felt I didn't have the the

01:39:36 --> 01:39:39

sort of like sensitivity to be able to give him a fair shake out.

01:39:39 --> 01:39:43

But at the moment, my like I said in the book I'm working on is on

01:39:44 --> 01:39:47

the role of the dilemma of the 19th century, that's one and

01:39:47 --> 01:39:49

waiting for that in terms of publication, these things are very

01:39:49 --> 01:39:52

slow. And the new project that I started on is the impact of the

01:39:52 --> 01:39:56

Ottomans on the Asiatic society, the 19th century. So that's

01:39:56 --> 01:39:59

Malaysia, Japan, Afghanistan, and so forth to try to see that

01:40:00 --> 01:40:04

So how the Ottoman Empire in particular was the center of the

01:40:04 --> 01:40:07

Muslim world, what sort of impact it had on non Muslims that are non

01:40:07 --> 01:40:13

western, as we've seen how Islam was was sort of like, understood

01:40:13 --> 01:40:15

in that time, people would be surprised. I said, you know,

01:40:15 --> 01:40:18

there's, there's a lot of Islamic history in other parts of the

01:40:18 --> 01:40:21

world that people know very little about. So that's what I'm doing in

01:40:21 --> 01:40:23

terms of my own work. So

01:40:24 --> 01:40:27

yeah, so and that will be held to a particular standard, and people

01:40:27 --> 01:40:30

will scrutinize it in the way that I scrutinize other people's work.

01:40:30 --> 01:40:35

And that's okay. In terms of the, the TV show of the family, the

01:40:35 --> 01:40:38

second, it's, they've tried to stick to

01:40:39 --> 01:40:42

the history as much as they can, because a lot more evidence on the

01:40:42 --> 01:40:45

reign of Abdullah Ahmed. So that's why some people didn't find it as

01:40:45 --> 01:40:49

interesting as Ultra rule, because they could be less what you could

01:40:49 --> 01:40:54

call licence to, to move away from that. But it's still TV. And I

01:40:54 --> 01:40:58

have to highlight that, you know, we've been speaking about history

01:40:59 --> 01:41:02

in the books, but television is no different. So when you're watching

01:41:02 --> 01:41:05

people shouldn't if they have to be careful if taking books has

01:41:05 --> 01:41:09

been an authority, they have to be twice as careful in terms of when

01:41:09 --> 01:41:12

you're watching TV or movies as being an authority. This is a

01:41:12 --> 01:41:16

person's life, like Malcolm X, put into a three hour snippet. And so

01:41:16 --> 01:41:19

what can you expect people to be a bit more rounded, but it's not a

01:41:19 --> 01:41:22

bad TV show? In that sense, if people want to just get a general

01:41:22 --> 01:41:24

interest in a grain of salt on

01:41:28 --> 01:41:32

different people in different places of service, right? So one

01:41:32 --> 01:41:35

person might be working, giving Dawa, and you're working, you

01:41:35 --> 01:41:39

know, behind the desk, and reading and studying and producing works,

01:41:39 --> 01:41:42

what's the advice that you can give us from your window, looking

01:41:42 --> 01:41:46

at the OMA and everyone else in their communities? What's advice

01:41:46 --> 01:41:49

from this perspective, I'm gonna give a piece of advice that

01:41:49 --> 01:41:52

someone gave me yesterday. And I really appreciate it. I mean, I

01:41:52 --> 01:41:55

use this analogy that we're all parts of a clock. Some pieces are

01:41:55 --> 01:41:58

just bigger than others. But all the pieces need to work together

01:41:58 --> 01:42:02

for the clock to function. And I believe that and somebody else

01:42:02 --> 01:42:05

said to me that, you know, if the OMA is a body, different people

01:42:05 --> 01:42:08

are different organs and different parts of their body. And so this

01:42:08 --> 01:42:12

is how they function and operate. And I appreciate you that reminder

01:42:12 --> 01:42:16

for myself as well. Because there is a time, there are times where,

01:42:17 --> 01:42:19

because I keep saying this, I'm a recluse, I like to my mom,

01:42:19 --> 01:42:22

business, and so forth. And the guys here today, when they pulled

01:42:22 --> 01:42:25

me out, they were telling me, you know, you don't realize that you

01:42:25 --> 01:42:28

are actually making a difference and so forth. I can't see that.

01:42:28 --> 01:42:33

Because I'm so caught up in my own brain that I keep a distance from

01:42:33 --> 01:42:34

that, because I'm, it's not for me to judge.

01:42:35 --> 01:42:40

But I believe this that first and fundamentally everybody should do

01:42:40 --> 01:42:44

is I said this before, there's no need for any for any of us to

01:42:44 --> 01:42:48

defend Islam. Islam defends itself. It doesn't need that. So

01:42:48 --> 01:42:52

when I said Olson was front foot, he was never defending it. But we

01:42:52 --> 01:42:56

need Islam. So in that sense, it's not. We don't need to be these

01:42:56 --> 01:42:59

type of people are thinking I'm going to defend it in.

01:43:00 --> 01:43:05

This is a problem and thinking that way. Islam is there for your

01:43:05 --> 01:43:09

salvation, turned to it. And if you whatever your capacities in

01:43:09 --> 01:43:12

life, if it's just anybody that go into the masjid in a corner, and

01:43:12 --> 01:43:16

that's your thing, fine. And if it's somebody else who has another

01:43:16 --> 01:43:19

capacity, then do that what I've noticed in my life, like I said, I

01:43:19 --> 01:43:22

didn't want to do any of this. And it feels like always just pushing

01:43:22 --> 01:43:26

me forward. And Allah Allah does that. Sometimes he takes people

01:43:26 --> 01:43:31

and, you know, when I was 2526, I was working in retail. If you said

01:43:31 --> 01:43:33

to me that I'd be sitting here with Dr. Shady right now I would

01:43:33 --> 01:43:37

laugh in your face, no way, no chance. And here I am. So in that

01:43:37 --> 01:43:41

sense, you know, just try to please Allah to the best of your

01:43:41 --> 01:43:45

ability. Put your trust in Allah to Allah. And if you're sincere to

01:43:45 --> 01:43:52

Allah, Allah will see you as a, as a necessary agent to, you know,

01:43:52 --> 01:43:55

put his work out there. And I said, you saw a sister came to see

01:43:55 --> 01:44:00

me when we gave the talk here. And she was quite nervous about

01:44:00 --> 01:44:03

Illman. How do I do this? And I said, Look, Imam Ghazali Rahim

01:44:03 --> 01:44:04

Allah said that

01:44:06 --> 01:44:11

the the worshiper is putting his dunya to worship Allah to Allah.

01:44:12 --> 01:44:14

So if you want to do EBA, and get close to Allah to Allah, he's not

01:44:14 --> 01:44:18

going to put obstacles in your way to stop that. That's your purpose.

01:44:19 --> 01:44:22

You might be tested in life to shape your character in the way

01:44:22 --> 01:44:25

that Allah Allah shaped the Gambia and everyone else, but he's not

01:44:25 --> 01:44:29

going to put obstacles in your way to get closer to you. So LM is a

01:44:29 --> 01:44:33

bad, try your best is not easy. It's not supposed to be easy.

01:44:34 --> 01:44:36

You're gonna find challenges and moments where you feel like you're

01:44:36 --> 01:44:40

struggling but you keep going. And the benefits are in that. So, you

01:44:40 --> 01:44:43

know, whenever you have a moment, and you think you can't do this,

01:44:43 --> 01:44:47

just have your trust Nonlin keep going. And because in terms of

01:44:47 --> 01:44:50

Quran when I was learning Arabic, my Arabic teacher in Syria uses it

01:44:50 --> 01:44:54

so difficult. And then another friend of mine from Dagestan goes

01:44:55 --> 01:44:57

but don't always say in the Quran, he's made his Quran in Arabic so

01:44:57 --> 01:44:59

that you may know it. So what's going on here?

01:45:00 --> 01:45:03

I used to laugh golf course. So when to get out of a mentality

01:45:03 --> 01:45:08

just keep pursuing Inshallah, let us now talk about what happened

01:45:08 --> 01:45:12

yesterday and we'll close with news on a second earthquake this

01:45:12 --> 01:45:18

time and takia this time it was a 6.4 earthquake in a lightly

01:45:19 --> 01:45:23

populated part of town or a part of Turkey, which is on takia and

01:45:23 --> 01:45:27

six people are dead the earthquakes to the previous

01:45:27 --> 01:45:34

earthquake killed 44,000 people so far so far.

01:45:35 --> 01:45:40

I mean, what a number that is so every home in Istanbul must be

01:45:40 --> 01:45:46

shaken by death and it's also in was a symbol No, it was not a

01:45:46 --> 01:45:50

symbol but I meant it was east I meant Turkey must be shaken

01:45:50 --> 01:45:53

because the that number count Syria to

01:45:54 --> 01:45:58

so every home in that area, that Eastern part

01:46:00 --> 01:46:06

on the on the turkey side, sorry, the Syria border must have a death

01:46:06 --> 01:46:09

which is extremely something that we have to keep them in our minds.

01:46:09 --> 01:46:14

Although you know, we people are now following up on this

01:46:14 --> 01:46:15

earthquake which was

01:46:17 --> 01:46:22

really the third if you count the 5.8 aftershock three minutes later

01:46:23 --> 01:46:28

and then there were dozens of smaller aftershocks that were not

01:46:29 --> 01:46:34

five five point a or or above that but this one was big 6.4

01:46:36 --> 01:46:39

There were six people so far that had been pulled under rubble and

01:46:39 --> 01:46:43

they had died. Okay, I thought the earth was going to split open

01:46:43 --> 01:46:46

under my feet recalls a resident

01:46:47 --> 01:46:52

who told Reuters Alim of low May Allah accept his dua if that's his

01:46:52 --> 01:46:56

name, Mother loom depressed he told the news agency that he had

01:46:56 --> 01:47:00

been looking for the bodies of his family members from the previous

01:47:00 --> 01:47:04

earthquake when this earthquake hit. Now you don't know what to do

01:47:04 --> 01:47:08

we grabbed each other and right in front of us the walls started to

01:47:08 --> 01:47:12

fall you actually were in did you feel the earthquake or now 90

01:47:12 --> 01:47:14

sample newer you weren't you weren't in this district at all

01:47:14 --> 01:47:18

where it happened Okay. So let us close with our with a dot for the

01:47:18 --> 01:47:20

May Allah subhanaw taala ease the burdens

01:47:22 --> 01:47:25

of all those who suffered from this earthquake, we ask Allah

01:47:25 --> 01:47:27

subhanaw taala to render all of those who passed away in this

01:47:27 --> 01:47:31

earthquake, all of them every single one of them as shahada as

01:47:31 --> 01:47:35

the messenger of allah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam said, that those

01:47:35 --> 01:47:40

who die with building collapse, collapsing upon them are Shahada.

01:47:40 --> 01:47:42

So may Allah to Allah, count them as shahada and make them

01:47:42 --> 01:47:45

intercessors for their families. And we ask Allah to Allah to grant

01:47:45 --> 01:47:49

Sabra to all of the families, extended families and the

01:47:49 --> 01:47:53

neighbors and everyone who has suffered deaths. Likewise, those

01:47:53 --> 01:47:57

who may have suffered, who have not died, but have suffered major

01:47:57 --> 01:48:00

injuries, major injuries, we cannot forget them. Their lives

01:48:00 --> 01:48:02

have been altered permanently. There have been people who have

01:48:02 --> 01:48:05

lost their homes, their lives are altered, permanent people have

01:48:05 --> 01:48:08

lost their businesses, their lives have been altered, may Allah to

01:48:08 --> 01:48:13

Allah be with them, and give them Sobor and grant them the Imen in

01:48:13 --> 01:48:18

handling tribulations, just as we handle what is good from Allah. We

01:48:18 --> 01:48:21

know he gives it to us with the wisdom likewise, he hands he hands

01:48:21 --> 01:48:24

us, we receive trials and tribulations in life, what we

01:48:24 --> 01:48:28

don't like and we believe that Allah has wisdom in it. And our

01:48:28 --> 01:48:32

view is not just dunya, we ask Allah to expand our view to dunya

01:48:32 --> 01:48:37

and akhira. This is the Muslims view of of existence is that what

01:48:37 --> 01:48:41

happens here may not have what we want of the dunya but it will have

01:48:41 --> 01:48:45

what we want of the ACA. And we ask Allah to increase our Eman and

01:48:45 --> 01:48:48

Accra and increase our Eman in the life that is coming after this

01:48:48 --> 01:48:52

life so that we may bear the hardships of this life. Lastly, we

01:48:52 --> 01:48:56

ask that Allah to Allah bless all of the Muslims who are suffering

01:48:56 --> 01:49:00

outside of Turkey who may have taken our eye off of at this time

01:49:00 --> 01:49:01

and give them

01:49:02 --> 01:49:05

ease in their hardship and their difficulty. And for all those

01:49:05 --> 01:49:08

enemies of Islam who are harming these people such as the weekers.

01:49:08 --> 01:49:11

And then and the Rohingya Ian's and the Palestinians We ask Allah

01:49:11 --> 01:49:16

to Allah to busy them with themselves all of these oppressors

01:49:16 --> 01:49:19

May Allah busy them with themselves so they could let go of

01:49:20 --> 01:49:23

and live off of their oppression of our brethren was subtle

01:49:23 --> 01:49:27

Allahumma barik ala Sayyidina Muhammad wa early he was abused by

01:49:27 --> 01:49:30

them. Subhanallah Baker believes that your male seafood was salam

01:49:30 --> 01:49:31

ala and was said Mercedes

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