The host of a podcast introduces a guest who has made over six Islamic titles and is a homeschooling father of four children. The guest discusses his interest in learning about Islamic sciences and personal development, advises listeners to choose the area where their success is needed, and gives advice on managing stress and productivity in life. The importance of having a clear goal and prioritizing it is emphasized, and the speaker emphasizes the benefits of working harder and balancing personal tasks to achieve success. The speaker also discusses the importance of finding time to read and create a productive Muslim, and how it can make a difference in one's life.
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You're listening to the productive Muslim podcast, season one, Episode Five AsSalamu Alaikum and
welcome to the productive Muslim podcast, the weekly podcast where we help you live a productive
lifestyle so that you can be successful in this life.
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Assalamu alaikum productive Muslims. Welcome to the podcast. I'm your host me form Arif and today I
have for you another interview with a productive Muslim. Now if you're new to these interviews,
these interviews are ones in which we speak to amazing individuals from all walks of life, we get an
insight into their productivity and takeaway lessons we can implement. And joining me on the show
today from Durban South Africa, is our guest shake his smile calendar. He's a senior lecturer and
faculty member of the Islamic Open University, the founder of Islamic self help and a radio present
up. He's also a homeschooling father of four children has authored over six titles in the area of
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Islam, personal development, and homeschooling with his first book published at the age of 23. So
Mashallah many amazing things that our guest today has accomplished, and is continuing to
accomplish. So, I hope you enjoy this interview, we check your smell.
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This show is sponsored by the productive Muslim Academy, an online platform built for serious and
committed individuals like yourself who want to improve themselves. I'm a member myself and I must
say this place is a goldmine of knowledge with unlimited access to personal development courses by
experts. And the best thing about it is that it's all faith based meaning it combines between
religious teachings and the best of modern personal development. It also contains access to a
private Facebook group where you can network with like minded individuals, a book club to encourage
you to read regularly, exclusive webinars and more. Plus, there's a 30 day money back guarantee. So
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that means if you don't like it, you can request a refund, no questions asked. So give it a try by
heading over to productive Muslim academy.com and take your life to another level.
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Assalamu alaikum shaky smile Welcome to the show. When it comes to l'amour rahmatullahi wa barakatuh
Jazakallah fate for having me. I'm a very big fan of productive Muslim. In fact, it's one of the
inspirations behind my own website. So it's a real honor to be here. Thank you so much for having
me. Well, Mashallah. First thing I wanted to put forward to you is like, Can you just tell us about
yourself and what you do? Okay, very briefly, I am the faculty manager of the Islamic online
university. I'm the founder of Islamic self help.com. I'm a radio presenter, I have a weekly radio
program called Living Islam on regular Sir, I'm a diary. I do Tao by locality, and internationally.
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I homeschool my kids and I'm a blogger, I also write for magazines. So I think that kind of sums it
all up. Yeah. All right. So you start off with doing Islamic sciences and working in the area. Now
you're also writing in area of South helping along with the other things that you're doing. So I'm
curious to know, was this always something you wanted to do? Or was there a point in your life that
you decided to do this? Well, this is kind of like an evolution in my life. You know, I started off,
you know, studying Islamic Studies became an Islamic Studies teacher. But in 2011, I got promoted to
this management position, and I really had no clue about management.
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My only area of knowledge was Islamic Studies. And so I started reading books, reading books, like
the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, How to Win Friends and Influence People in all these
kinds of books. And I really got into it, you know, I really started to enjoy the books and enjoy
the podcasts and the videos. And they began to transform me upon myself being able to do so much
more than I ever thought I was capable of doing. And this went on I began to realize there's a lack
of Islamic products in this area. And I saw a niche a market that wasn't being catered to. And from
there slowly the ideas developed first the idea for the time management book, then the self
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confidence book, then the website itself and it just grew one idea after the other so it wasn't
something I planned. If you were to ask me 10 years ago, I probably hadn't even heard about self
help or personal development. Yeah, I usually do this for myself to develop myself to grow myself
and I just grew to love this field so much I wanted to share it with others and Islam is it and
that's where the idea group hmm All right. So it sounds like you heard about this field and then you
you just develop your interest in it and then you move more towards that area. I've also heard about
other people saying how they have multiple interests and they don't know like which one to go more
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interest. So how did you know that you want to do more in this area? Well, for me, the The reason I
went into this area was not just because it's what I wanted to do, but because
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They've seen a need for you are really what we what we need to do, you know, I mean, if you've got
multiple interests, we have to look at the one where it's going to benefit the most, you're the one
where most people can benefit from because as Muslims, our productivity is not just linked to
ourselves, but it's really to the human as a whole. So for me, I saw a need for Islamic products in
the south health area, knowing that they will benefit the Muslim ummah. So this trumped all my other
personal interests, because of the fact that it will benefit so much more people. So that's why I
gravitated this way. And that's what I advise people to do, which is all the things you love, choose
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the one that's going to benefit the most, and focus on there. So finding the in between between,
like what you have an interest for and also what there's a need for as well. And that's how you
found this area, finding a way to realign the two is basically what you go. Alright, so going more
deeply into productivity, I want to put you on the spot and ask you about your own personal
productivity. So I mean, you have multiple roles or responsibilities. And I understand that along
with you being a teacher or rider life coach, I'm a father of four children who you homeschool. How
do you do it? How do you make it all work? Well, having long term goals and motivation is most
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important, you know, do you get those days where you think you'll be so much easier to just put the
kids in school instead of having them at home all day, and you get those days where you feel like
maybe I should cut out some of my products, or some of my projects and do less things. But what
pushes me forward and those days is the long term goals, the motivation, that everything I do, plays
a key role in benefiting the oma in some way or the other. And so I would not justify giving it up.
I cannot justify to myself giving it up. So for example, my radio program takes place on a Tuesday
night at 9pm.
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On a night by 9pm, I am very tired. Yeah, but I will go there and I will do the best radio program
because it reaches hundreds of 1000s of listeners across the country and online. And it's benefiting
the oma and so that goal of benefiting the oma takes precedence over my own tiredness and my own,
you know, personal desires, because that's really the key motivation is the same with homeschooling,
you know, it's when I think long term, what do I want my kids to be when they grew up in terms of
their morals, their character, their tribe, the personalities, I realized that this homeschooling is
a sacrifice and investment that will pay off in the long run. And so that motivates me to keep going
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even on the days where we may be too tired, or we may not be in a good mood, or whatever the case
may be. So it's really important to have long term goals and source of motivation. That's the only
thing that pushes you to achieve more than others, to really have a strong motivation. And I think
for me, my primary motivation is benefiting. That's really what pushes me forward in anything that I
do. Alright, so with long term goals, how many long term goals do you have, I mean, since you're
doing a lot of things, it doesn't mean you have a lot of long term goals, or when they all actually
relate to one or two long term goals, you know,
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they all align in some way, I have like a point that I want to reach in my life, and from the
branches out into three things, I need to get to get to that point at that branch out to six things
I need to do to get to that point. And from there, you know, I'm actually working in a triangular
manner, I'm doing 10 things now, which will need to find things in the future, which will lead to
things after that, to finally reach to my, to my ultimate goal. So it may seem like I'm doing a lot
of unrelated things, but behind the scenes is actually all working towards one primary goal. You
know, if you have to really go down deep to the primary goal of every Muslim it should be to
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decrease or learn and to agenda. And, you know, my my motto of life is to leave this world a better
place, and I found it. And every project I pick up works towards that goal, you know, to improving
the lives of someone or the other. And in terms of this world, I have my own words, the goals as
well, of course, you know, you're not supposed to forget the dunya we have to go to India, but you
know, to become financially independent, to be able to fund my own dow to be able to our completely
for free to do that. I need sources of income and you know, all of these things work together. Some
of the stuff I do are free our projects, even my radio program and sound completely free. So get
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into your project benefit the oma many people don't know that they think I get paid to be on radio,
but it's actually free. Other things like the self help ebooks and courses and my management job,
they help me provide for my family and have enough money to fund. So it all related everything works
together towards a primary goal. And so therefore, I don't often feel like I'm doing many things. I
just feel like I'm working towards one goal on either
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check to reach that goal. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Because when you have that clarity that all
these things are leading towards one goal. There's a you're able to work towards each one and give
it its own time. Yeah, sure. Yeah. So I mean, it sounds like you're very motivated and ambitious and
you
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Is this something that you've always been like? Or was it something that came over time? Like you
had a point in your life in which you're like, Okay, I got to get my act together.
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To be honest, I think I've always been like this.
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I cannot think back to a single time in my life where I would say I was lazy or unmotivated. In
school, I will get good grades. I started studying Islam full time when I was 13. Yeah, I started
doing when I was 16. I got married when I was 20. I wrote my first book when I was 23. I literally
cannot remember a point in my life where I was not doing anything productive. It's it's just been a
year from the time of Akita. It's partially because of good parenting Alhamdulillah, my mother, and
an amazing job single mother raising us on our own, to raise us to be Dini conscious. And she
herself, she runs a school, she serves the oma. And that was a motivation for me to follow in our
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footsteps and do things that benefit the oma. So parenting is one thing that helped me to always be
motivated from a young age. And the other thing is, the way my personality is wired, you know, last
week, Saturday, I had two hours without any work to do, my to do list was finished. And I felt
frustrated that I'm wasting two hours. That's the kind of personality I have. So I just have to fill
up my times with things that's beneficial, because that's that you only have one shot at life, and
you want to pile up as many good deeds as possible. So 100, I think I've just been building with a
personality that's always been motivated to just go and do more and more and more how to do that. So
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are you saying that you don't have any like lazy days, like down days, I do have lazy days, but
that's scheduled as well, Sunday's my lazy day, you know.
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And they have my vacations twice a year, to go to the mountain ranges or to an island or whatever,
with a family, you know, go and have a vacation with the family once or twice a year, I do that.
Every Sunday, I wake up late, and I just have fun, who they don't think about any work or do any
work. But that schedule in To me, that's part of productivity, all right, that we actually making
time to have downtime, so you stay productive, because I believe, if you don't schedule fun time and
downtime, you end up really frustrated and burnt out. So that's all scheduled into each the way I
live my life. And that way, it's a very balanced life. And if you actually spend a day in my life,
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see, I have a lot of fun. It's not just work all day. Hmm. So if that's the case, then what would
you say gets in the way of person wanting to lead a productive life? Well, I think it comes down to
goals and motivations. You know, people don't really know what they want to do with their life, or
why they want to do it. I found some people they make to do lists, but they don't follow through
their to do lists. Because there's no real motivation to do anything on the list. It's not working
towards a higher goal. It's not working towards anything long term. So really, it comes down to lack
of motivation, I believe if someone has a motivation to have something that they really want, or
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they really need. And they know that if I don't get this, I'm going to regret it for the rest of my
life, they will do whatever it takes to achieve that goal. Yeah, but many people just don't have
that, you know, they just coasting through life, they just doing whatever comes next, they're doing
the bare minimum to get their salary, or to make it through the day. That's comes down to not having
motivation or a goal. So I would say the primary factor is to have clear cut goals. If your goals
are clear, and the things that you really, really need and want, you will push yourself beyond the
norms of other people to get those goals because they are seated important to you. So that's really
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the primary thing to meet goal setting and motivation. So in your case, when your workload becomes
like stressful and becomes overwhelming, then how do you deal with that? You actually have an
article about this on my website, Islamic self help calm, or the article is called management for
bad days. I wrote it when I was having a bad day.
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So I was having a really bad day, I wrote some advice to myself on how to handle that day. And that
became one of my most popular articles time management for bad days. And there's primarily
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three things that I would do when I'm having a bad day. The first is that I will prioritize, I will
say, Okay, I've got 20 things on my to do list. What are the five things that have to get done
today? Yeah, the five things that I can't reschedule. So I will choose those five things and only
focus on those five things for that day. Like everything else, I will either delegate it to someone
else, or reschedule it for another day. Right. So yeah, this is primarily how I will handle a bad
day or a difficult day or overwhelming day, I will choose the five most important things that I have
to do today and focus only on those things. I'll delegate some other stuff. So for example, in
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homeschooling, I'll tell my wife that you know what, I'm got a lot of work to do today. So can you
handle the homeschooling today to see the work that kids have to do so delegate that to her, or with
some of my management work, I may delegate some work to my assistant, but
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So that takes some stuff off my plate and brings down the stress levels. And anything else that's,
for example, during one month's time or two months time, I will reschedule it for another day, when
it's a quiet day, I know when a certain day of the week I'll have less work, I will reschedule those
work that work for that day. So through delegation, rescheduling, and focusing on priorities, able
to be productive, even on the most stressful of data.
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So it sounds like you have a plan for bad days, like a bad day plan. Yeah, it's did something as I
say, I've written a whole article about it. And it's something you have to have because you cannot
go through life without these bad these are going to come your way. Yeah, that's true. We'll link
that in our show notes. So the next question over here was about what advice would you give to a 20
year old self about being productive and making the most out of your life? What would you say?
Honestly, I wouldn't change anything about my life. Alhamdulillah, you know, I just changed, I just
turned 30
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a few days ago on the first of September. Yeah, I was born on the first of September 1986. So I
literally just turned 30, a few days ago, and I reflected on my 20s I just say Alhamdulillah, Allah
has given me a productive youth. In my 20s, I got married when I was 20, I became a father, when I
was 21, became a published author by 25, or manager by 24 became a founder of my own website by 28,
I don't see anything that I would change, I'm very happy with the way my life played out. Even the
bad times. I mean, I was fired from jobs, I was unemployed, I, I went through some serious
challenges. But every challenge I went through, shaped me into who I am today, and I wouldn't change
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it. It all was part and parcel of making who, who I am today. So if I had to give advice to my 20
year old self, I would say continue doing what you're doing.
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But, you know, don't just think of my 20 year old self is just too much and wanting too much about
things going wrong. And what would people say, you know, those kinds of things, which, as you grow
older, I like to just say this is life, you know, just take each day as it comes, don't just don't
stress about it. That's probably the only advice I would give Otherwise, I wouldn't change anything
about how to do like, productive 20s. So that's interesting that you said you got married at 20
years old and became a father at 21. So I'm curious to know, getting married and becoming a father
at such a young age, did it help you become more productive, or I believe it definitely made me more
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productive, and everybody I know who became parents at a young age has had the same experience.
Because when you are now a father, you now have a family to support. And when you have a family to
support, you're gonna work harder than someone who's single, because you literally have to put food
on the table at the end of the month. So you're not going to be lazy, you're not going to be wasting
time you have responsibilities, and those responsibilities help you to mature and they also give you
more motivation. You know, a person with with a family has more motivation to work and get a better
job, or get a promotion than someone who's single. So I believe that getting married young gives you
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the motivation that I have to succeed at life, I can't be lazy now, because I have a family to take
care of. That really is one of my primary motivations, right? So today, taking care of and providing
for my family, you know, it's something that pushes you to do your work every day, and to work
harder than others because as your kids grow, you want to give them more things you
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want to do all of this stuff, and you need more money for the pet. So, you know, it all becomes part
of the motivation to be your best and to do the most that you can do. So you know humbly like it's
really been a blessing to me to have all my kids and to be a father at a young age. I mean my eldest
is going to be nine years old
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I'm 30 you know we get to have a lot of fun together because I'm still young yeah
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it's not like it has a father with no energy has an interesting take on it. All right. So So when
your day then how does how does a typical day look like for you? A typical day for me?
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It kind of me going through each task on my to do list one by one. You know, I wake up in the
morning I firstly I make my to do list the night before? Yeah. So in the wake up in the morning, I
already know exactly what I need to get done for the entire day. And he's just step by step you
know, I don't stress it just 20 things on the to do list. I just start from number one. And do each
thing as the day goes along. Things get ticked off. And by 4pm 5pm often the entire to do list is
completed. I learned not to stress because I know if you have a list of tasks and you take them one
at a time, it all gets done. Taking life one day at a time picking your goals one day at a time
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picking your to do list one task at a time. This helps you to be less stressed out when working
towards your long term goals. So you'll find me homeschooling my kids while working. That's because
I'll give them their work we didn't cover before for grading it. You know you'll find me
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you know maybe answering an email and after taking a phone call. I don't try to multitask anymore
unless you
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So a beneficial way because multitasking takes away your concentration from any specific task. So
instead of multitasking, I do things one at a time. And this helps me to get through the day.
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I also try to get done with my to do list by 5pm. So this gives me time to spend with my children in
time to spend with my wife and time for myself. It's also important to make time for yourself.
Another thing I make sure I do every day is I make time for a vida. Besides praying the five slot
time I put on my to do list to recite Quran every day, this is important for everybody to do. No
matter how busy you are, you must put on your to do lists recycle, you must make time for this every
day. Yeah, because connection with a lot many people forget about this. And they say they're too
busy, you cannot be too busy for Allah subhanho wa Taala. So you know, making time for that are my
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to do list, I also have every day, read a book, you know, listen to a podcast, these are things that
I wanted to do this so that my own personal development does not get ignored. Also make sure I have
breaks every one or two hours, take a five minute break to watch a funny video, or to take a walk or
to play a short video game, whatever it is something just to, to recharge the brain. So you know,
you get your energy back. Yeah,
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I'll do I do a lot of things, the way I break down my day and take things one step at a time, it
doesn't really feel like a lot. It's, it's it just flows from one task to another. I believe when
you balance things out in this way, you end up making time for everything. So this is more or less
what my days are like, hmm, so one thing that stands out for me is that you have all your to do list
and you have a timing in which you aim to finish by Yeah, it creates a sense of urgency, you know,
because you don't think, Oh, I have enough time to just take my time with this. No, you don't, I've
got to get to all of this by a certain time. Otherwise, I'm not going to have time to spend with my
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kids or, you know, I'm not going to have time to to relax. So, you know, again, as I said, all this
stuff must be scheduled in your time management is not just about getting things done. But it's also
about enjoying what is holiday, it's also about taking care of yourself taking care of your family.
So it's really important to have that time because I know some people are Workaholics. They work
around the clock. And then the complaints come from the family members that you know you don't spend
time with us, or they themselves get burnt out after a while. So it's very important that we
actually
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make time for family. And I found one way to do that is to give myself a cut off time for work every
day, if works done by 5pm. And you know, it's not something that has to be done today, then we move
on to tomorrow's to do this. As simple as that. The answer actually leads me to my next question,
which is how do you relax? What things do you do to have fun? And how often do you do because I know
you mentioned earlier about you take trips and everything like that, but on a daily basis. Do you
schedule time for that to your everyday in the evenings are fun time except on certain days of the
week. I mean, on Wednesday nights, I have some reverse teach Islam to and on Tuesday night to have
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my radio program and sometimes they have at night but on the average night, I'm free. And that's our
fun time. You know, time for some holiday fun. play video games, my kids or you know spend some time
with my wife for you know what, something funny or watch a video. On my day off on a Sunday, we'll
go to the park, we go to the aquarium, we'll go to the local shopping malls just to relax and have
fun as a family. And one of the nice things of having four kids is you always have someone around
you have fun. Because kids, very fun people to be with. So 100 a lot, you know, my household.
There's a lot of fun going on. People may think that we work all day or be super serious people
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always involved in work. But I honestly think I have more fun than most people. Yeah, yeah, it's
just I schedule the time for the fun. So it doesn't actually affect my productivity in any way. And
that's a good way to approach it so that you can get a good balance in your life. Yes, I'd be
balanced, very important. If you lose that balance for the sake of money or something else. It's not
worth it. Because what's the point of money if you're not enjoying what he's halaal? If you're not
spending time with family, you know that that should really be a priority? Yeah, that's true. So
we're actually getting near to the end of interview. So I have a few more questions that I want to
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ask you. And the first question is, what's a book or a video, which you've seen recently that has
helped you in your personal growth?
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Cool, that's a tough one because I have a deadline for myself to read 40 books a year. So this year
alone, I've read like 28 books already. And the one that stands out recently was actually an audio
book I listened to called the 10 x rule.
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And if you know that book, The 10 x rule by Grant Corden.
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The book is basically saying that to be successful at anything, you have to do 10 times the amount
of work in terms of what already works. If you find something works, you know, do it time
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Tip, for example, $100 advert that's, that's, that's generating returns on income, return on
investment, then change it to $1,000, your time tentative, if you've got someone who's doing their
work properly, you know, give them more work to do, if you have certain things that you do, well do
more of it. And what that taught me is I need to up my game, whatever I'm doing well, I need to do
more of it, in order to get more done. And what's nice about the book is he teaches you how to do
more without really stressing yourself out without, you know, feeling overburdened. And very often,
the things we do, we don't realize we can do more of it. You know, we think that this is all we can
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do. We think, for example, I can write one article a week. Yeah. And that's not necessarily the
case, I could write three articles a week, or we think I could post once a day on Facebook, well,
you could post 10 times a day on Facebook. So sometimes we don't realize how we can be doing more
without increasing our actual workload. And this book is full of ideas on how to do that. And it's
full of motivation on why you should be doing more. So I find it quite an interesting read, it was
very different from the normal books I read.
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He also was very blunt. You know, his language is a good cause at times. But it was an interesting
read in terms of motivating you to get more done. And I think it's something which I, which I needed
to help me up my game to the next level. So how do you actually find the time to read the D
scheduled that as well? Yeah, that's one way to do this. In fact,
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this podcast is over. I'm reading for the next half an hour, because that's next on my to do lists.
All right. All right. So your to do list would say something like read for half an hour? Is that
what it is? Exactly? Okay. Yeah, because I had another approach about having a certain number of
pages to read. And then there's also timing by by timing as well. Yeah, I focus on timing, because
depending on the type of book I'm reading, I may have to read faster or slower. So if I rather just
choose a time than choosing a number of pages, because some books have higher, I have more print on
the page, some have less print some uniqueness, read slower to digested others, you can speed read,
00:27:05 -->
00:27:09
so I just choose a half an hour a day for reading, however, much gets done in half an hour.
00:27:10 -->
00:27:15
All right. So my final question is, how would you define a productive Muslim?
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00:27:58
a productive Muslim, as I mentioned earlier, you know, we should be working to helping the oma. So
my view of a productive Muslim is someone who when you pass away, you have left an impact on any
portion of this ummah. And you have left behind people who make you out for you who ask Allah to
forgive you and whoever. This means that you made a difference to this Omar, we need a group of
orphans, whether it's a group of widows, whether it's reverse, whether it's people who converted to
Islam, through you, with these people at your local Masjid, or whether it's a million people, the
fact is, you made a difference in somebody's life, your life was dedicated to uplifting any portion
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00:28:34
of this ummah, if you are making a difference to the lives of anyone, you are being productive, but
if you only focusing on yourself, and your own money and your own worldly success, then that's not
productivity. productivity in terms of an oma is benefiting the oma is not a selfish oma, we are
women who care for each other. So I would say to truly be a productive Muslim, we must leave an
impact on the Oba and we must leave behind people who will make to offer us as Allah forgive us It
will versus These are the people who will count on our scale of good deeds. And that becomes
productivity in both worlds. That's true. That's true.
00:28:35 -->
00:29:16
Okay, shake is more. Thank you so much for coming on the show. I've taken away many insights from
this. Is there any final advice that you would leave for our listeners, just whatever is on your
mind that you didn't get to mention throughout the interview? Yeah, well, my final advice to the
listeners is to remember that you only have one shot at living in the studio. In this world, we
don't know how long we're going to be up. So it is crucial that we utilize our time in this world,
to build the era to go after life. Don't wait until you're older. Don't wait until something happens
to change your life. You be there's something that happens you change your life today. Because the
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00:29:52
end of the day, we're going to be responsible to Allah for how we spent our time, how we spent our
wealth, how we spent our youth, all of these are things that we have to ask Allah for. And so as
Muslims, you know, being a productive Muslim is not something that's a fancy title or something that
some people do. It's actually something we all supposed to do. It's supposed to be part of who we
are. Because this is a fundamental of our religion. We are accountable to Allah for how we spend our
time and how we spend our resources. So let's be productive in how we utilize every aspect of our
lives. That's my final message to listeners Jazakallah fate for having me Salaam Alaikum
00:29:52 -->
00:29:59
warahmatullahi wabarakatuh say everyone, I hope you enjoyed today's episode and took away many
insights for any
00:30:00 -->
00:30:40
Other information, anything that we mentioned in this episode, you can be able to find out in our
show notes which can be found out on our blog, productive muslim.com. Or if you want to go see those
podcasts along with any other episodes, which we've released on the podcast, please do check us out
on productive Muslim podcast.com. And they, you'll be able to find out how you can tune in to this
podcast, online and also on your devices. So on your phone, say for example, you're commuting,
you're driving, you can download these episodes on your phone, at home, and then play them offline.
So you don't have to worry about using mobile data out and about, you can just use it on your Wi Fi
00:30:40 -->
00:31:20
and then you're off so you have no excuses to tune into this podcast. And on the way please do head
over to iTunes or Stitcher Radio to give us a review because you know what? The thing with reviews
is that it helps us reach more people. It helps us help more people. So if you too, are passionate
about being productive, being able to get the best out of your life, then you will also want to
spread the message as well. And so please do help us in that. All of those details, you can just go
straight to our production Wilson podcast website. So that's all for me. I'll see you all next week.
Till then be Cynthia and work hard.
