Season 1 Ep 01

			You're listening to the productive Muslim podcast, Episode One AsSalamu Alaikum and welcome to the
productive Muslim podcast, the weekly podcast where we help you live a productive lifestyle so that
you can be successful in this life.
		

			Salam Alaikum productive Muslims. Welcome to the podcast. I'm your host Romero. And you know what?
I'm really excited because this is the first episode of the productive person podcast. And there's
always something special about the first things in life. You know, the first day we went to school,
the first step we took the first words we said, and so, here it is the first episode of the show,
and today I have for you a productive Muslim interview, whereby we speak with amazing individuals
from all walks of life, get an insight into their productivity and takeaway lessons we can
implement. Joining us on the show today from the States is our guest sister Halle banani. She's a
		

			clinical psychologist working in the field for 20 years helping couples and individuals along with
being an international speaker and brighter. Hello is a mother of three has been a featured expert
on Al Jazeera international Huda TV, Islamic Open University mercy mission and bainer TV. She was
the first female to host a program for alpha TV called with Halle and also co created the five
pillars of marriage course with her husband, and received her agenda for re citation in the Quran.
Plus, she was awarded the Icon Award representing America in Malaysia for her contribution in
psychology and Islam. Mashallah, so it's an honor to have her on the show. So without further ado,
		

			let's get started.
		

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			Assalamu alaikum Hello, welcome to the productive Wilson show.
		

			Hello, thank you for having me on. Thank you for coming on. It's a pleasure to have you. So can we
start off just an introduction about yourself and what you do?
		

			Sir, I'm a cognitive behavioral therapist. And my passion is really to, to help people empower them,
and, and help them have meaningful relationships, overcome their obstacles, and I give lectures
travel. And also, I'm the founder of the five pillars of marriage program. So where you are right
now and the things that you're doing, how was it always something that you've wanted to do? Or was
the point in your life in which you decided that this is the path that you want to contribute to the
world, I've always had a deep compassion for helping others and as early as 10th grade, I became
fascinated with psychology, I found that, you know, studying the human mind and, and emotions to not
		

			only like break away from the shackles of whether it's childhood trauma or neglect, but to also help
others to reach their highest potential that I just found that very fascinating. Yeah, so that
combined with your desire to help others kind of you found yourself in the area of clinical
psychology.
		

			Yes, yes. And I think that real, I saw a huge void in the Muslim community, there were hardly anyone
pursuing Psychology at the time, it was almost 20 years ago. And so many people tried to discourage
me from going into the field, why is that I just
		

			many people, they felt that you know, this is this is just not necessary. And I could, you know, I
could go into another field and I, I really felt so strongly deep in my heart that this is my
calling. And, and I went for it and I saw that you know, there was such a void in the Muslim
community. And I just wanted to fill that void because very few Muslim therapists now I feel more
people are going into the field on the left. And really I feel the the driving force, in going into
the field is is this head deep and it I feel like it drives me on a daily basis. The Prophet
sallallahu Sallam said that the most beloved of people
		

			According to Allah is He who brings most benefit to people and the most beloved of deeds, according
to Allah, the mighty, the magnificent is that you bring happiness to a fellow Muslim, or relieve him
of the stress, or pay off his debts and the Hadees continues, it's a little bit lengthy. But that is
really a driving force. And it just gives so much fulfillment to know that my field can not only
help someone in their struggles, but also help them align themselves with the law. So it's a
combination of the Dow law and the psychology and 100 law.
		

			Okay, so along with the programs that you're doing, and your therapy sessions with clients, and
along with travelers, like I won't know, how are you able to kind of balance all of these projects
and work that you're doing along with your personal and other commitments that you have going on
your life? Like, pretty much how are you achieving that balance? You'd say? Yes, you know, first and
foremost, I really attribute a lot for the for the beta cat, for the blessing for the opportunities,
it all comes from a lot, honestly. And I think when you put your intention, and it's that sincere
intention to please Him through serving mankind, then it's just like there is this the the butter
		

			cat effect that I think we'll have affairs talks about, a lot, we have a focus on that. And I, I
really, I believe in that because, so, first and foremost, it is it is from a lot. And and then
second of all, I have you know, I have an amazing supportive husband, Mashallah subotica Labs, and
Majeed, he really believes in what I'm doing. And he is a source, he's a pillar of strength. And
he's a source of inspiration. And he just, he really helps me in every area that in every, in every
way you can imagine.
		

			So that I think is, it's really important to have that support system to have your also to be
aligned and to be centered. You know, my husband's and my husband and kids. And hamdulillah have
always been a priority for me from the very beginning, even, I remember when I got my first TV
program, I looked at the produce, and I said, Look, my husband, Mike, is they come first. So if I'm
doing this, I don't want this to take me away from them, as long as we revolve everything around
their schedule. And I think that was very important, especially while the while the kids were young,
I really dedicated my time with them. And because I was in private practice, I have the luxury of
		

			choosing my hours, when I work, how many hours I work, so I really totally revolve everything around
them and I made made their schoolwork, their activities, you know, that was a big part of my focus.
And, and it's, you know, it's about investing in your children when they're young. And then it
really pays off. So while I was working, while I was doing my research and, and putting programs
together, I was making but making them making sure that they're the, the focal point of my life and
the law. And that I think the main thing is allocating time for each of the for each area of my
life. So I mentioned chant, how definitely the family that was that that was the center. And you
		

			know, a lot of times, I think, some of some of the people who are who are younger who into this
field, and there's that excitement of getting involved and, and doing it all, they they overlook
that priority, they may overlook their relationship with their spouse, they may neglect the
children, I think that that is a too big of a price to pay, you really need to make your family come
first. So that's, that's critical, and then allocating time for let's say, I put a dedicated amount
of time for for the therapy session. And then there is a project and educational programs. And I
always like to give back to the community by either right now I'm giving classes parenting classes,
		

			and in the two massages here in in Dallas, the local mosque, and then giving Dawa in, in so many
different ways. So
		

			yeah, so that's working for you really well, haven't done a lot. And you know, I think it really
helps to know your, your limitations and to get the extra help where you need it. I do have someone
that comes in helps, you know, on a weekly basis with with the house with keeping up with that. And
I think that if you can get the extra help where you where you need it. It is important because if
you stretch yourself too thin and you overburden yourself, then something's going to give and, and
and it's either going to be your health, your relationship or or your work so get the help that you
need. Find that find the balance by getting the service
		

			Kord whether it's from your family, I have wonderful friends who are extremely supportive and
Hamdulillah, I've always been blessed with those, with those very supportive friends. And, and I,
you know, I also get the kids to do their chores to, to help out to participate. So not only are
they helping mom, but they're also getting their training so that one day when they're on their own,
they'll be able to, they'll be able to run a household, inshallah, it's so important to get our
children to help out as well. And, I mean, one, one thing that I really like about what you
mentioned, is how you're saying that you don't do everything alone, as in, you realize your
		

			limitation and realize that, hey, I need help in this area, because it's so easy to fall into that
hole, you know, I can do everything myself, and then find ourselves just burnt out at the end and
unable to achieve our goals. Right, it really is important to get that help. And you know, what's
gonna happen is that if we get burned out, then we can't continue being productive, we need to do
our task in a way that is sustainable. And I know I like to push myself I like to push myself to
live. But I also realized that I didn't need help assistance, and I and I get that I get the extra
assistance, and it pays, it really pays off. And it's a worthwhile investment to actually get these
		

			things for insurance. So one of the things you also mentioned was how you said about working on your
kids when they're young. And I want to know, like, what did you mean by that, and it was a
particular years of their life, which is the most important, definitely their developmental stage.
They were this, you know, the center of my world, I applied everything I learned in clinical
psychology and what you saw today, as in what is the developmental age for a child, right, you know,
the first five years or so, the first five years that child's life, you know, the first five years
are extremely critical in building trust and learning, respect, and having that sense of connection,
		

			emotional connection, building self esteem, making them just excited about learning. And so that was
that was really a big passion of mine is instilling that love of learning, instilling leadership
skills in them from very early on, and being quite involved as a PTA president, when I was when we
were at Egypt, we were in Egypt for about six years, wanted the kids to learn Arabic and on and just
got very involved with the school, which I think really raised the kids morale seeing their mom,
highly active. And so that was that was a really, it was an enjoyable process and hamdulillah and
just being around them and giving that time and attention to them really paid off because now they
		

			are you know, they're 17 Mashallah, Amir 17. Kadeem is 14 Layla is they love it. And now there's so
much Mashallah karateka life, there's so much more independent, and, and capable, because of all
that investment of time and from the love. That's true. So will you always this driven and ambitious
in your life? Or was this something that has developed over time? Always from first grade? Oh,
		

			yeah, no, I was, I was always motivated, self motivated, I didn't need my, I don't remember once,
having my parents helped me with my homework, it was just something I was driven. And it was just
with really into being productive. I mean,
		

			my, my father, I think was a big source of inspiration. And that he just always gave me these pep
talks about their time is golden and, and cherish your time and make it a value. And so that that
was just something I live by that I didn't want to do anything to waste my time. Yeah. So how do you
keep yourself motivated? Has that been an issue for you? You know, the way I do it is that I focus
on the positive impact the things that I'm doing is going to have and and that excitement just fuels
me the excitement of getting adger, the southern Nigeria pleasing Allah and all that is just like
this driving force and have the law. So I keep reminding myself of the end result. And that kind of
		

			keeps me going. So reminding yourself of the end result means that you must set yourself some goals
in your life that you want to kind of achieve something by Yeah, definitely. The goal setting is so
critical. And I I gained the skills there in six years of leadership training that started in high
school, and I would always set goals in different areas of my life. So whether it was in academics
personally in relationships,
		

			And this is something I've I've continued doing from high school. And I think that it really helps
to write down your goals on paper. And somehow when you write it down, it's like this personal
commitment you make to yourself. And many times I remember, as I wrote, The I wrote my goals down,
it seems so unattainable. And it seems so far fetched. But upon law, once you write it down, it's
like, you start working towards that you're driven towards it, and then you, you start achieving it.
And then the key is to renew those goals, and to keep rewriting them. Because you always in order to
stay motivated, you need those new goals, I think what happens when people lack motivation, is
		

			because maybe they don't have an exciting enough goal. And it's just a map, it's just about tapping
into the, the incentives and seeing what is it that could give them that drive and that motivation
to, to achieve? Yeah, so you're saying that renewing goals and ensuring is something that excites
them, and it's something that they find themselves passionate about achieving? Right, right. And
then once they achieve it set up new goals. So if you're continuously doing that, there never comes
a time, you can never feel like you have have reached a peak, there's this constant striving to keep
achieving more and more. That's true. So over the years, what have been your lessons on
		

			productivity?
		

			Okay, so it's really about believing in yourself, it's about having that vision, if you're able to
visualize yourself, if you're able to believe in yourself that you are capable. That is the mindset
that you need to have the positive self talk the belief in yourself and being able to
		

			perceive your goals. Because if someone cannot even perceive their goals, because sometimes I work
with individuals, and I have them close their eyes, I try to help them visualize No, I just don't
see it. Because the belief system is not there. They have limiting beliefs, which prevents them from
reaching their goals. So it's really essential to have that positive mindset. And then, of course,
once you have the mindset, then there's those practical guidelines of having, you know, having your
calendars having checklists, having, knowing exactly having those goals that keep you motivated. And
		

			yeah, I like having a system in place to help you achieve those goals. Right, right. That makes
sense. So in your work over the years, or what's something that you've noticed, has been a deterrent
for people on achieving their best life and making a difference pretty much. You know, a lot of
times people have victimized themselves, whatever that has happened to them. In the past, they may
feel like they're a victim of it and, and they never move ahead, and they that just kind of weighs
them down like an anchor. So I think making sure that you do not allow the incidents that have
happened in your life, to victimize you and to prevent you from moving ahead. And if you do have any
		

			of that get help get that professional help and overcome it. Because that that does, you know, weigh
a person down, and then giving up too easily. I think that's another problem that many people have
is that as soon as they face an obstacle, they give up. And you see that the most successful people
are those who don't give up they could they are persistent, and they keep pursuing their goal
regardless of the obstacles. So that is something that we need to be persistent. We need to be
committed and not allow setbacks, to make it help me to make us give up. I really like to, you know,
redefine success and failure because a lot of times people define success as what achieved.
		

			Right, and failure as not achieving not Yeah, the inability to achieve so now I want to read the
find these two words and, and really redefine it as a way that it will be very empowering. If we
define success as the ability to learn.
		

			So that means it doesn't matter what your circumstances are, if you are bankrupt, if you get a
divorce, if you have certain issues that come up, you're laid off whatever it is, and you learn from
that experience. That means you're a success. So you don't beat yourself up for certain setbacks in
your life. And failure would be the opposite of that the inability to learn. So as long as you are
learning and growing and improving, you are a success. And so I
		

			I find that a lot of times people look at the circumstances in their life, they define themselves as
a failure is whether it's within their marriage, whether it's in their degree, or at work, and, and
then they are stuck, they label themselves, and they can't move beyond that. So just redefine these
two words and see yourself as a success. As long as you learn from any experience that happens in
your life. That's true, because the best teacher is experience. So going back to yourself and your
work that you do, what are some of the challenges and obstacles you face? There is a lot to take in
as a therapist, when you sit and you listen to, you know, practicing Muslims who either they go
		

			astray, or they make really bad decisions in their life. And, you know, they may be suicidal, you
know, someone will just call me and tell me that, you know, your mind, asshole, and I'm about to
take my life or an individual's saying that they're on the brink of divorce. And so there, it weighs
really heavily on me, because I feel that is the responsibility. And so that part of it is very
challenging. And, and I think it's so important to be emotionally stable, to not be affected by
that. But you know, you're, you're naturally saddened by some of the things that some of the things
that I hear if there's ever abuse or domestic violence, or all of these issues that I hear are
		

			definitely very, that it weighs, weighs down.
		

			But it's just a matter of learning, you know, I guess, in my training, what help is learning to be
compassionate, without getting engrossed. So it's just this constant struggle of, of keeping it into
perspective, and, and not being disheartened. Because, you know, my, my natural, I'm a natural
optimist, and I'm hearing all of these stories, I don't ever want that to change. I mean, obviously,
I'm
		

			much more informed now. And I'm not as naive as I was maybe 20 years ago, before I started doing
therapy. But I don't ever want all of these incidents, all of these things that I've heard to ever
change my optimism or my hope in people, because I think that that is something that I always try to
realign myself to that, to that faith in humanity. And, and and realize that when people falter, it
doesn't matter how much they know how knowledgeable they are,
		

			and, and what kind of degrees they have earned. But it's just about following the Hadoop of a law,
when when someone does not follow the boundaries of a lot, they fall, and no one is immune to it.
And I think on a daily basis, I am reminded, and this is something I'm so grateful for that I'm
constantly reminded of how your actions have consequences. So you follow your desires, you go out of
out of the realm of the halaal. And you do these things, and there's definitely these huge
consequences. And so it's a, it's a great reminder for myself, and I'm constantly readjusting even
my parenting style, as I hear how other people parent, whether they're too strict or too lenient,
		

			I'm constantly making adjustments. So I'm learning and growing from each client that I deal with,
it's not just that I'm helping them, but I feel that I, I learned and I grow, and it's a it's a
beautiful constant reminder and hamdulillah so instead of looking at this as a reason to be
disappointed in humanity, you can say, rather, you're looking at it as a learning experience. It is
this a learning experience and realizing that, you know, anyone can falter and, and you know, not
being judgmental about it. I mean, that's something I really work on myself, I really cleanse my
heart from any kind of any form of judgment. And I think because it shines through if I'm sitting
		

			with a client, and I've had clients with all sorts of backgrounds, and if if I have the slightest
feeling in my heart, even if I don't utter it, but I have that feeling of judgment in my heart, it
will shine through and they won't be able to make progress. So constantly cleansing my heart from
any judgment. And I think that is something you know, as we become more religious as we gain more
and more degrees and attend more conferences, you know, there's that tendency to become very proud
of ourselves and, and start looking at people who don't practice the same as us in a very judgmental
way. And we look down on them for not having those same credentials and I think that that's dividing
		

			the oma it's really
		

			Making us fall apart, we only look for spiritual clones of ourselves, whoever is exactly like us,
they're great, but everyone else is you you label them as either liberal or extreme, or whatever it
is. So I think that it's just working on our hearts and, and being tolerant, and not just tolerant
but accepting. We need to go beyond tolerance, we need to accept one another. For wherever you are
on the spiritual journey, and, and just know that it's just a matter of time each person needs to
find their own way. And I think that that would be a great exercise for us to do on a daily basis,
just pure, purify our heart from any kind of judgment from others. Good. That's such an important
		

			point that you brought up, because, especially today in the social media age in which kind of a lot
of our lives are on display, or a lot of us have to do work that it's publicly out there, it's easy
to kind of fall into the trap of judging people or looking down at them. Right, right. And I think
that it's so important that the more knowledge that we earn, really needs to affect our character.
If we're gaining knowledge and degree after degree after degree, but our character still has not
been refined, then something's missing, then we're working towards those titles as a status and not
working on our inner self. So I think that is, it's really important that as we gain knowledge, we
		

			become more humble towards people less judgmental, and purify our character because that, that is
what's going to have a lasting impact on others, not, not those titles, not the degrees, but our
beautiful interaction with others is what's going to leave an impact. And there's a proverb, there's
a Persian proverb that says, the tree that bears the most fruits, hangs his head low. So when you
have the more you have, the more you need to be humble about it as far as your you know, your
knowledge is concerned.
		

			And also, what you mentioned reminds me of this quote about people weren't remember what you did for
them, but rather how you made them feel. Yes, I love that. I love that quote. And I think that it's,
it's really essential to focus on how we make our family members feel how we make our children feel,
and and how we, you know, when we're interacting with with non Muslims, when we're interacting with
our neighbors, that we make sure that we're leaving this beautiful sense of Islam everywhere. And
it's all about our character, and that's what the prophet sallallahu Sallam came to perfect. And I
think sometimes that's the missing link. These days, people are Mashallah extremely motivated to
		

			seek knowledge. And you see them attending conference after conference and, and so excited about
learning. But I don't know if all of that knowledge is being implemented or are being demonstrated
in the character that they portray. Yeah. So it just comes down to a matter of how many conferences
we've attended, or how many courses we've winters? Yes, yes, it is kind of a checklist. Yeah. And I
find that people become very competitive in that. And and it just saddens me when I see that Islamic
knowledge has been reduced to that, I feel that we need to do it with a higher intention. And every
piece of knowledge that we gain, we're going to be held accountable for it if we're applying it. I
		

			taught Moodle, and NASA did very well,
		

			for sarcoma, and that clewd al Qaeda, as Allah takedo so how could you tell others and remind others
about things that you yourself don't follow? So this, this becomes a very, something that should
weigh heavily on us that we don't, we need to practice what we're preaching. That's true. That's so
true. So we're actually getting closer to the interview and five some final questions. The first one
I want to ask was, can you describe how a typical day looks like for you?
		

			It's typical day Sure. Waking up the kids and getting them ready for school, you know, all three of
them preparing. They need to form a breakfast these people.
		

			Yeah, they have their their breakfast and their lunches and then I usually start my therapy sessions
at eight o'clock. And let's see today I did my therapy. And then I had a class a parenting class at
at the Allen muster that's very close to our home, and then came back for back to back therapy
session.
		

			with, you know, just interacting with, with people and love from from all over. And then in between,
I tried to make time to make dinner and tidy up and also do interviews like this. And you know,
there are like Tuesdays and Thursdays I put I put to work on educational programs I work with my
husband and and we get out videos put out articles blogs and, and all that. So do you also schedule
in time for non working time?
		

			Yes, I do. And it's, it's really about in the morning, actually, when we wake up, that's one of the
things I look forward to we have coffee on the porch on our on the swing, and we just look out at
the creek and, and just try to focus and, and then just bond. And then and then afterwards I try to
get in some walking a good friend of mine comes over and and we walk together on the neighborhood or
on different parks. And so that is wonderful. And what what we do is like daily, we connect sick at
our mealtimes are very sacred with with the kids. Yeah. And, and, and so we we have dinner together
there every day where we connect, find out what's going on. And then on the weekends, we can start
		

			very much family time where we either have barbecues or we might we might go boating, sometimes
jetskiing sometimes just hanging out at the home and playing games together. And then and then we
try to like plan
		

			either weekly, or let's say monthly, small trips, little things that we do together as bonding
activities. That's really nice. Okay, so my next question is, what's a book or video that comes to
mind for you that has helped you in your own personal growth?
		

			I know that personal power by Anthony Robbins, that was that was very, that was very inspiring the
seven habits of highly successful people. That was one of the books I was introduced to when I was
when, when I was in those leadership, training programs. And so those those really had a big impact
on me when I was about like in high school. Yeah, that's nice. I've read, I came across Anthony
Robbins, the first book that he wrote, I'm not, I'm not sure it was the first book was awaken the
giant within? Yes, that's a powerful way to I really like that.
		

			All right. So finally, what does it mean to be a productive Muslim? How would you define that being
a productive Muslim, I think make everything you come in contact with better than the way you left
it, it's about adding value sharing your knowledge and, and giving hope giving inspiration to
others, and utilizing your time to build a side effect drive yet because all of us are here for such
a limited period of time. I mean, I have heard about more that's of people that I know this year.
And it's this constant reminder that none of us know when our time is up. And so being God
conscious, being time conscious, and using all of that as as that motivation, the motivation to keep
		

			going and continuously learning and growing in every area of your life, and never becoming stagnant
never feeling like okay, I've reached it. I know enough, I'm good enough. It's always like wanting
to wanting to improve, and, and contribute. So whether that's contributing by helping the people who
are less fortunate, maybe the refugees, teaching, you know, helping people with their, you know,
with their problems, or just simply being there for a neighbor, friend. I think that's, that's what
being productive is all about. That's true. Making a difference and living beyond yourself.
		

			Right, right and living. You know, my motto is to live in love with a higher purpose. And I think
when you think about your ultimate goal is pleasing a law and everything that you do is a way of
gaining jhana and attaining jhana. So whether that's in your whether that's in your marriage,
whether that's in your parenting, your work, the community work you do, all of that is aimed to
pleasing Allah. So that is that in itself is a huge driving force that is a much more powerful force
than working for status or working for money because if you get that if you get fueled by that, then
it just keeps you going.
		

			That's true. That's true. Well, just like a higher for joining us on the show. It was a pleasure to
be here. Thank you for having me on. So there you have it. You can connect with hallae by heading
over to productive Muslim podcast calm, and there you'll find show notes containing each anything
we've mentioned on the show, along with how to connect with it. Now we've reached the end of the
show. I look forward to speaking to you in our next episode. Till then remember, be sincere and work
hard.