Nouman Ali Khan – Western Quranic Studies Israiliyyat – Ep. 10 – The Quran Library

Nouman Ali Khan
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The Qwork of Islam uses non-Muslim culture and religion in recitation, while the book "The Art of Recivity" uses the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition of the definition

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			If you do an investigation of our own
		
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			history, our own Fiqh tradition, our own Tafsir
		
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			tradition, it's not as cut and dry black
		
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			and white as we're presenting it post-colonialism.
		
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			That kind of material, you know, later on
		
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			you find, you know, Azhari scholars and even
		
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			before them people like Ibn Kathir in his
		
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			Tafsir, Al-Alusi in his Tafsir, who are
		
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			very negative about Isra'iliyyat.
		
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			And if they see, you know, patriarchy as
		
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			the source of all problems, then the Tafsir
		
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			tradition just reflects that patriarchy.
		
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			That is to say, it's all men talking
		
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			from male perspectives and sidelining women perspectives because
		
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			you don't find really in history and tradition.
		
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			You can barely, if at all, find a
		
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			female Mufassira.
		
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			So what are we doing now?
		
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			Well, what are you reading?
		
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			Who's that?
		
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			Handsome fella.
		
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			Yeah, I'm just, I saw myself in a
		
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			book.
		
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			So what's this book called?
		
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			Muslim Qur'anic Interpretation Today, Media Genealogies and
		
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			Interpretive Communities.
		
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			So, of course, I knew that.
		
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			I'm just asking you rhetorically.
		
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			This is by Professor Johanna Pink, who is
		
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			the lead investigator on the Global Qur'an
		
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			Project, which I was privileged to be part
		
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			of for a little while.
		
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			And I happen to know that she's written
		
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			about you in here, and you had your
		
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			first opportunity to meet her just recently at
		
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			a conference.
		
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			I did.
		
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			So in general today, inshallah, we're talking about
		
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			Western non-Muslim writings on the Qur'an,
		
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			but it's actually a bit broader than that.
		
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			Some of these people actually are Muslims.
		
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			But it's also a little bit unfair to
		
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			just lump it all together based on the
		
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			religion of the author, because there are topics
		
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			here that fit in with other things that
		
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			we've talked about, and we could certainly have
		
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			kept it in there.
		
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			But I thought it might be helpful to
		
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			look at it.
		
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			Just as Western Academic Islamics.
		
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			As a group to see some of the
		
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			trends and the patterns and the issues that
		
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			are being raised there.
		
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			So I don't have that many such works
		
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			in print, to be honest, but these are
		
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			the ones that I do have.
		
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			Based on the last discussion about Qur'an
		
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			translations, this is one by Bruce Lawrence, which
		
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			is the Qur'an in English, a biography.
		
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			It's quite a nice treatment of the subject.
		
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			I didn't steal it from a library.
		
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			I bought it from an ex-library.
		
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			This is one called The Art of Reciting
		
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			the Qur'an by Christina Nelson.
		
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			I read this when I found it in
		
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			Cairo in 2004, and I was so surprised
		
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			at this treatment of the issue of Qur
		
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			'an recitation.
		
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			It was so thoughtful and insightful.
		
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			And the author actually interviewed some of the
		
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			great famous Qur'an reciters, like I'm sure,
		
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			I think Sheikh Alhusri, Sheikh Minshawi, Abul Basir,
		
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			and she examined the kind of overlaps, but
		
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			also distinction between Qur'an recitation and music.
		
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			She herself is both an Arabist, a student
		
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			of Arabic cultures and language, and of ethnomusicology,
		
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			as it's called, so different musical approaches.
		
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			That's Sheikh Mustafa Ismail on the front, I'm
		
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			pretty sure.
		
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			So I actually invited her to come to
		
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			do some lectures in the UK in 2006.
		
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			So we did at Edinburgh, Cambridge, and at
		
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			SOAS in London.
		
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			So, lovely lady.
		
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			The Man in the Qur'an by Yusuf.
		
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			He's got a few important books, looking at
		
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			the semantics of the Qur'an, words and
		
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			how they're connected, the concepts.
		
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			Semantic fields is one of the key words
		
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			in his semantics of the Qur'anic.
		
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			Oh, I had some this morning.
		
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			So this actually is a very influential book,
		
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			and certainly useful.
		
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			And I've seen over at Marcus Tafsir, they
		
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			actually did like a kind of roundtable type
		
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			thing on this book.
		
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			Oh, really?
		
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			Here are a few books from Edinburgh University
		
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			Press, my own book, inshallah, will be coming
		
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			out from them.
		
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			So I'm interested in their back catalogue of
		
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			works on the Qur'an.
		
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			We've got How to Read the Qur'an
		
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			by Karl Ernst.
		
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			It's a very popular book.
		
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			It's been printed a lot of times.
		
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			Qur'an Historical Critical Introduction by Nikolai Sinai,
		
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			whom you've also met a couple of times.
		
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			And Islam and Literalism by Robert Gleave.
		
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			It's not specifically in Qur'anic studies, but
		
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			definitely has a lot to do with literal
		
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			expressions and what that means in the context
		
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			of Qur'an and Hadith and so on.
		
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			These are by a couple of Muslim brothers,
		
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			actually.
		
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			Ramon Harvey and Peter Coppins, both of them
		
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			friends of mine.
		
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			So the Qur'an and the Just Society
		
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			was Ramon's first book based on his PhD.
		
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			His supervisor was Professor Abdul Halim, just like
		
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			myself.
		
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			And he's done a lot of great work
		
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			since then, continues to publish and also is
		
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			the editor of a series on Islamic scripture
		
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			and theology at Edinburgh University Press.
		
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			And this one on Seeing God in Sufi
		
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			Qur'an Commentaries by Peter Coppins.
		
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			He's very strong in tafseer studies and he's
		
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			got a lot of interesting papers.
		
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			One of his recent papers was about, I'm
		
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			trying to remember the actual title of it,
		
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			but it was about whether over time the
		
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			appreciation for ambiguity and complexity wore off in
		
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			works of tafseer.
		
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			So he's looking at how the toleration and
		
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			the respect for multiple opinions has actually remained
		
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			more stable than people tend to think in
		
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			the modern period.
		
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			It just completely collapsed.
		
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			I mean in that regard there's an important
		
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			book, not specifically Qur'anic studies again, but
		
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			this is an important book which I actually
		
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			wanted to show you, especially.
		
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			And I haven't read it yet, but to
		
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			be honest it's just the title.
		
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			The title for me carries so much meaning.
		
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			Part of the history of Islam, interesting.
		
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			Generally speaking or broadly speaking his argument, and
		
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			it's written in German originally and then it's
		
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			just recently been released in English as well,
		
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			is that throughout Muslim history there's been a
		
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			lot more acceptance of the fact that things
		
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			can sometimes be a little bit indeterminate, a
		
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			little bit ambiguous.
		
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			And that even applies to a discussion.
		
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			One of the discussions he does touch on
		
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			was what we just said about qiraat and
		
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			the fact that there are multiple ways of
		
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			reading.
		
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			And sometimes you can have even a discussion
		
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			about is this the better way, is that
		
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			the better way.
		
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			So there's a search for the best answer
		
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			to that question, but not necessarily to say
		
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			there is only one answer and every answer
		
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			must be wrong, everything else must be deleted,
		
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			everything else must be ignored.
		
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			You're able to say well this is a
		
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			qiraat that we read and we respect the
		
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			other qiraat and they exist together.
		
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			There's no sense of panic from that.
		
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			And that applies in various different fields where
		
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			an appreciation of ambiguity is something which is
		
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			very healthy.
		
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			So he's kind of making that argument but
		
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			he's also making a point that this appreciation
		
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			plummeted in the later periods and that is
		
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			part of the intellectual crisis that Muslims are
		
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			suffering from today.
		
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			So personally I think there's a lot of
		
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			value in his argument even if one could
		
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			debate over specifics.
		
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			So I think you know some of these
		
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			books already.
		
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			So you must have read Neil Robinson.
		
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			I have.
		
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			Discovering the Quran.
		
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			Contemporary approach to a veiled text, yes.
		
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			One of the first western books I read
		
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			on the Quran.
		
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			And Professor Abdel Halim, you might have read
		
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			this one.
		
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			He's got various of his essays that are
		
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			compiled in a few.
		
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			No I haven't read that one.
		
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			Books like this.
		
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			So Professor Abdel Halim of course has had
		
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			a very important role as being a professor
		
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			of Islamic studies and Quranic studies in SOAS,
		
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			University of London.
		
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			He has made space for plenty of other
		
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			people, myself included, to be part of the
		
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			Western Academy and to be part of those
		
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			discussions.
		
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			And you know showing that we can respect
		
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			each other, we can have different methodologies and
		
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			points of view and we can get along
		
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			one way or another.
		
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			This is a friend of mine from Al
		
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			-Azhar University.
		
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			He did his PhD at Birmingham on a
		
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			Quranic critique of terrorism.
		
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			Quite a nice book.
		
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			This is one which I haven't read yet
		
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			but the topic seemed so worthwhile that I
		
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			bought this one.
		
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			The Quran and the aesthetics of pre-modern
		
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			Arabic prose.
		
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			So again linking Quran within the broader study
		
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			of literature and therefore helping to understand how
		
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			claims about the Quran and its beauty and
		
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			its perfection, how they fit in.
		
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			Oh this is actually here the first orientalist
		
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			book on the Quran that I bought.
		
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			So I don't remember when it was but
		
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			this was the first one.
		
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			I'm pretty sure it's from Princeton University Press.
		
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			The Quran's self-image by Daniel Madigan.
		
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			Does he mean by that the way the
		
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			Quran describes itself?
		
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			Yeah, how it presents itself and almost how
		
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			it sees itself.
		
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			So this has given rise to a number
		
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			of other studies that followed from this.
		
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			Self-referentiality of the Quran.
		
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			There's at least one edited volume on that
		
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			by Stefan Wilder.
		
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			We met a French scholar who's written one
		
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			which the title is the Quran according to
		
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			itself.
		
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			We've also met this author, a good friend
		
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			of mine, Merijn Van Poota.
		
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			So this is his book which has recently
		
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			been released with Brill Press in the Netherlands.
		
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			Quranic Arabic from its Hijazi origins to its
		
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			classical reading traditions.
		
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			So he takes a lot of interest in
		
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			the history of Arabic language.
		
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			He's studying it from the perspective of a
		
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			historical linguist and Arabist and he is interested
		
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			in looking at what you can understand about
		
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			the language of the Quran from its manuscripts
		
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			and from its consonantal text and then from
		
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			how people have vocalized and pronounced it according
		
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			to the qiraat and the reading traditions.
		
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			So from that he makes some novel claims
		
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			as well about the language of the Quran.
		
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			But importantly this helps us to get past
		
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			certain oversimplifications that we make.
		
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			Oftentimes people think that classical Arabic equals Quranic
		
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			Arabic.
		
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			Of course classical means that post-Quranic how
		
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			things were classified and became standardized and rules
		
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			were set in place.
		
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			Once you look at those rules as you
		
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			and you look back at the Quran you're
		
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			like oh it's not following those rules.
		
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			So then it can set you into disarray
		
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			and then you get people coming along saying
		
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			oh the Quran is ungrammatical.
		
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			So I have a video with Merijn actually
		
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			where we talk about some things and the
		
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			last point in the video was specifically about
		
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			this question.
		
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			Is there a grammatical error in the Quran?
		
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			And his answer was well there's no such
		
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			thing as a grammatical error.
		
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			So no it doesn't.
		
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			Just because for him as a linguist the
		
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			idea and the category of grammar like that
		
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			they look at language as a natural flowing
		
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			process.
		
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			Modern linguists will say that Scottish English is
		
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			just as valid as any.
		
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			And why shouldn't it be?
		
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			That's yeah this is why you like Merijn.
		
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			So we've got lots here but maybe a
		
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			kind of subset which is worth highlighting is
		
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			that there are lots of books published in
		
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			you know talking about gender in the Quran
		
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			and I don't have that many of them
		
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			but I have a few that I've picked
		
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			up over time.
		
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			So we have had the opportunity to meet
		
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			at least one of these authors.
		
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			Yeah we did.
		
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			Selene Ibrahim a recent book on women and
		
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			gender in the Quran.
		
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			I haven't yet read it but I plan
		
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			to.
		
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			And this one by Hadiya Mubarak.
		
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			We saw a bit of her speech.
		
00:13:22 --> 00:13:22
			Yeah.
		
00:13:23 --> 00:13:26
			This book she was the one online.
		
00:13:26 --> 00:13:27
			Yeah she was online.
		
00:13:27 --> 00:13:28
			Yeah I read a little bit of this
		
00:13:28 --> 00:13:29
			book yesterday.
		
00:13:30 --> 00:13:31
			It seems very interesting.
		
00:13:32 --> 00:13:34
			So what I think is she's trying to
		
00:13:34 --> 00:13:36
			show due regard to the Seer tradition which
		
00:13:36 --> 00:13:38
			is strange for a western academic but that's
		
00:13:38 --> 00:13:39
			what she's trying to do.
		
00:13:39 --> 00:13:41
			I didn't get to her conclusions yet but.
		
00:13:41 --> 00:13:44
			So sometimes you do find with people who
		
00:13:44 --> 00:13:46
			are writing in this kind of field that
		
00:13:46 --> 00:13:51
			they have a certain disdain for the commentarial
		
00:13:51 --> 00:13:51
			tradition.
		
00:13:52 --> 00:13:52
			Yeah.
		
00:13:52 --> 00:13:54
			And if they see you know patriarchy as
		
00:13:54 --> 00:13:57
			the source of all problems then the Tafseer
		
00:13:57 --> 00:13:59
			tradition just reflects that patriarchy.
		
00:13:59 --> 00:14:01
			That is to say it's all men talking
		
00:14:01 --> 00:14:05
			from male perspectives and sidelining women perspectives because
		
00:14:05 --> 00:14:08
			you don't find really in our history and
		
00:14:08 --> 00:14:11
			tradition you can barely if at all find
		
00:14:11 --> 00:14:13
			a female Mufassirah.
		
00:14:15 --> 00:14:17
			If they were doing that then it just.
		
00:14:17 --> 00:14:18
			It was interesting.
		
00:14:18 --> 00:14:19
			So we're at this.
		
00:14:19 --> 00:14:20
			It didn't get published and so on.
		
00:14:20 --> 00:14:22
			They had a session on women in the
		
00:14:22 --> 00:14:25
			Quran and at the convention and all these
		
00:14:25 --> 00:14:26
			western academics are sitting there all of them
		
00:14:26 --> 00:14:29
			female and some of them almost all of
		
00:14:29 --> 00:14:31
			them or no two-thirds of them Muslim
		
00:14:31 --> 00:14:32
			at least.
		
00:14:33 --> 00:14:34
			Almost all of them yeah.
		
00:14:34 --> 00:14:38
			Yeah and so a let go of this
		
00:14:38 --> 00:14:39
			narrative.
		
00:14:39 --> 00:14:39
			It's unacademic.
		
00:14:41 --> 00:14:42
			We just have to look at people in
		
00:14:42 --> 00:14:42
			the Quran.
		
00:14:42 --> 00:14:43
			Why are we looking at women in the
		
00:14:43 --> 00:14:48
			Quran or putting a gender lens on this
		
00:14:48 --> 00:14:48
			text.
		
00:14:48 --> 00:14:51
			It's actually creating a bigger problem than solving
		
00:14:51 --> 00:14:51
			it.
		
00:14:51 --> 00:14:54
			Like this was the internal conversation they're having.
		
00:14:54 --> 00:14:55
			So it's interesting.
		
00:14:56 --> 00:14:57
			There are certainly big conversations.
		
00:14:58 --> 00:14:59
			I mean I would say one of those
		
00:14:59 --> 00:15:01
			conversations is represented by the fact that well
		
00:15:01 --> 00:15:06
			these books and in particular Hadi Mubarak's is
		
00:15:06 --> 00:15:08
			sort of saying that we need to give
		
00:15:08 --> 00:15:12
			more attention to the craft of Tafsir than
		
00:15:12 --> 00:15:13
			we have done.
		
00:15:13 --> 00:15:16
			We shouldn't just dismiss that because yes that's
		
00:15:16 --> 00:15:16
			the point she was making.
		
00:15:16 --> 00:15:20
			There are people who operate within the Tafsir
		
00:15:20 --> 00:15:23
			paradigm and she's particularly pointed to Ibn Ashur
		
00:15:23 --> 00:15:27
			who are able and show how you can
		
00:15:27 --> 00:15:31
			come up with in a way novel interpretations
		
00:15:31 --> 00:15:34
			and solutions that are yet within the framework
		
00:15:34 --> 00:15:38
			of legitimate Tafsir exercise.
		
00:15:39 --> 00:15:41
			So yeah a lot of debate also surrounds
		
00:15:42 --> 00:15:43
			this book.
		
00:15:43 --> 00:15:45
			This book was quite a strong intervention.
		
00:15:45 --> 00:15:48
			Aisha Hidayatullah's book on feminist edges of the
		
00:15:48 --> 00:15:52
			Quran and I've read some chapters of it
		
00:15:52 --> 00:15:54
			but basically the argument and what caused the
		
00:15:54 --> 00:15:58
			controversy is she despite coming from a feminist
		
00:15:58 --> 00:16:01
			perspective is saying you know the attempt to
		
00:16:01 --> 00:16:05
			read the Quran as fully egalitarian and you
		
00:16:05 --> 00:16:08
			know and therefore all about equality between men
		
00:16:08 --> 00:16:11
			and women has sometimes gone too far.
		
00:16:11 --> 00:16:14
			Sometimes the authors before her have gone too
		
00:16:14 --> 00:16:16
			far in assuming that that's the case and
		
00:16:16 --> 00:16:19
			therefore sort of reading into reading onto the
		
00:16:19 --> 00:16:19
			text.
		
00:16:20 --> 00:16:22
			Imposing some views onto the text.
		
00:16:22 --> 00:16:27
			So she's a bit more let's say pessimistic
		
00:16:27 --> 00:16:31
			about the Quran you know fulfilling that need
		
00:16:31 --> 00:16:34
			that some people have you know experienced to
		
00:16:34 --> 00:16:37
			find that egalitarian spirit.
		
00:16:37 --> 00:16:40
			So I think that we all probably would
		
00:16:40 --> 00:16:42
			believe in some level of you know on
		
00:16:42 --> 00:16:45
			some level at least that the Quran is
		
00:16:45 --> 00:16:46
			advocating equality.
		
00:16:46 --> 00:16:48
			It's just that in what forms, in what
		
00:16:48 --> 00:16:53
			circumstances, in what manifestations that's where interpretations differ.
		
00:16:55 --> 00:16:58
			But I personally think that this field you
		
00:16:58 --> 00:17:00
			know in a way is happening within western
		
00:17:00 --> 00:17:04
			academia more than it's happening within you know
		
00:17:04 --> 00:17:06
			as a Muslim conversation amongst Muslims.
		
00:17:06 --> 00:17:07
			I don't know if that's fair to say
		
00:17:07 --> 00:17:10
			but it's just my observation and I think
		
00:17:10 --> 00:17:12
			that is a shame.
		
00:17:12 --> 00:17:15
			I can understand how it's happened because I
		
00:17:15 --> 00:17:18
			think just the fact that women's voices get
		
00:17:18 --> 00:17:20
			marginalized so then they have had to find
		
00:17:20 --> 00:17:23
			a space where they can actually make the
		
00:17:23 --> 00:17:23
			argument.
		
00:17:23 --> 00:17:24
			So this is an observation about what's happening
		
00:17:24 --> 00:17:26
			in western academic studies but I have observations
		
00:17:26 --> 00:17:29
			about this subject as per what I see
		
00:17:29 --> 00:17:31
			in the Muslim world whatever little I have
		
00:17:31 --> 00:17:31
			traveled.
		
00:17:32 --> 00:17:35
			So the reality of it is there's a
		
00:17:35 --> 00:17:41
			conservative you know normative Islam that's spread across
		
00:17:41 --> 00:17:42
			the you know a huge chunk of our
		
00:17:42 --> 00:17:44
			population that says we don't need to we
		
00:17:44 --> 00:17:46
			already had this figured out there's no reason
		
00:17:46 --> 00:17:48
			to revisit these issues.
		
00:17:48 --> 00:17:49
			We're fine the way we are.
		
00:17:49 --> 00:17:50
			I don't know why you need to bring
		
00:17:50 --> 00:17:53
			this discussion on our shores and our homes.
		
00:17:54 --> 00:17:55
			Islam gave equality 1400 years ago.
		
00:17:55 --> 00:17:57
			Islam already took care of all of this.
		
00:17:57 --> 00:17:58
			We already solved this problem.
		
00:17:58 --> 00:17:59
			This is not our problem.
		
00:17:59 --> 00:18:00
			This is somebody else's problem.
		
00:18:00 --> 00:18:01
			Great.
		
00:18:02 --> 00:18:03
			Of course no problem at all.
		
00:18:03 --> 00:18:04
			It's not a problem at all.
		
00:18:04 --> 00:18:04
			Everything is fine.
		
00:18:05 --> 00:18:09
			Yeah so there's the everything is fine narrative.
		
00:18:10 --> 00:18:12
			At the same time you have young men
		
00:18:12 --> 00:18:14
			and women and actually even working professional men
		
00:18:14 --> 00:18:18
			and women in Muslim countries in massive numbers
		
00:18:18 --> 00:18:22
			that are completely disenfranchised from what they know
		
00:18:22 --> 00:18:24
			about Islam on the issue of gender.
		
00:18:25 --> 00:18:28
			They're thinking it in their own circles.
		
00:18:28 --> 00:18:29
			They're saying it if you provide them the
		
00:18:29 --> 00:18:31
			freedom to speak their mind then they're saying
		
00:18:31 --> 00:18:32
			it also.
		
00:18:32 --> 00:18:35
			I've experienced this firsthand on multiple accounts and
		
00:18:35 --> 00:18:39
			they need a room for that conversation that
		
00:18:39 --> 00:18:43
			is not allowed to take place.
		
00:18:44 --> 00:18:46
			So what that does if there's a need
		
00:18:46 --> 00:18:48
			to discuss something, figure something out, talk it
		
00:18:48 --> 00:18:52
			out, explore it even academically at a level
		
00:18:52 --> 00:18:55
			and at a level that everybody can participate
		
00:18:55 --> 00:18:59
			in then you get enough people that are
		
00:18:59 --> 00:19:00
			just being suppressed so much.
		
00:19:01 --> 00:19:02
			The analogy I give is if you press
		
00:19:02 --> 00:19:04
			down on a spring and you keep pressing
		
00:19:04 --> 00:19:07
			and keep pressing then eventually something will give
		
00:19:07 --> 00:19:08
			and it will explode.
		
00:19:09 --> 00:19:11
			So there's an element within the Muslim population
		
00:19:11 --> 00:19:15
			now in different countries that's exploded and they're
		
00:19:15 --> 00:19:18
			like you know what away with Islam, away
		
00:19:18 --> 00:19:23
			with this patriarchal nonsense and there's like far
		
00:19:23 --> 00:19:28
			left feminism or death kind of like you
		
00:19:28 --> 00:19:32
			know almost a militancy and we look at
		
00:19:32 --> 00:19:35
			those women that are protesting and you know
		
00:19:35 --> 00:19:37
			speaking out and all of it and we
		
00:19:37 --> 00:19:38
			look at them as the problem.
		
00:19:38 --> 00:19:39
			They're not the problem.
		
00:19:39 --> 00:19:45
			They are actually the result of an unaddressed
		
00:19:45 --> 00:19:46
			pain point as far as I'm concerned.
		
00:19:46 --> 00:19:49
			Like there's an issue, there's a discussion, there's
		
00:19:49 --> 00:19:51
			a narrative that needed addressing, there were questions
		
00:19:51 --> 00:19:53
			that needed to be answered and the answers
		
00:19:53 --> 00:19:55
			that were being provided we say that they
		
00:19:55 --> 00:19:56
			represent Islam.
		
00:19:56 --> 00:20:00
			I say that we chose the convenient copy
		
00:20:00 --> 00:20:03
			-paste answers and not realizing that those answers
		
00:20:03 --> 00:20:06
			aren't enough and that requires more investigation.
		
00:20:06 --> 00:20:08
			And those answers that were comfortable to those
		
00:20:08 --> 00:20:13
			who are comfortable being comfortable which for the
		
00:20:13 --> 00:20:14
			most part I'm saying men.
		
00:20:15 --> 00:20:17
			So we don't have to revisit anything because
		
00:20:17 --> 00:20:19
			it doesn't affect men.
		
00:20:19 --> 00:20:20
			You'd be surprised it's also a good number
		
00:20:20 --> 00:20:23
			of women that are in a traditional setting
		
00:20:23 --> 00:20:24
			and they're comfortable with tradition the way it
		
00:20:24 --> 00:20:25
			is.
		
00:20:25 --> 00:20:26
			Now the question is when we say we
		
00:20:26 --> 00:20:29
			need to revisit some issues you could think
		
00:20:29 --> 00:20:30
			of this as oh this is a liberal
		
00:20:30 --> 00:20:30
			agenda.
		
00:20:30 --> 00:20:32
			This is rethinking Islam.
		
00:20:32 --> 00:20:35
			There's re-evaluating you know what the Qur
		
00:20:35 --> 00:20:36
			'an and Sunnah say etc.
		
00:20:36 --> 00:20:39
			The problem with that account is that a
		
00:20:39 --> 00:20:43
			lot of what we consider traditional values if
		
00:20:43 --> 00:20:45
			you do an investigation of our own history,
		
00:20:45 --> 00:20:47
			our own fiqh tradition, our own tafsir tradition
		
00:20:47 --> 00:20:50
			it's not as cut and dry black and
		
00:20:50 --> 00:20:53
			white as we're presenting it post-colonialism.
		
00:20:54 --> 00:20:56
			There is in fact an intellectual decline and
		
00:20:56 --> 00:20:59
			some positions are being dishonestly presented as the
		
00:20:59 --> 00:21:03
			only position or the most convincing position when
		
00:21:03 --> 00:21:05
			in matter of fact it's not the most
		
00:21:05 --> 00:21:07
			convincing position.
		
00:21:07 --> 00:21:09
			So this has happened on a number of
		
00:21:09 --> 00:21:11
			occasions with me and in order for me
		
00:21:11 --> 00:21:14
			to grapple with this problem instead of coming
		
00:21:14 --> 00:21:15
			up with a conclusion what I decided to
		
00:21:15 --> 00:21:19
			do was in private sit with traditional ulama,
		
00:21:19 --> 00:21:22
			sit with experts and muhaddithin and say hey
		
00:21:22 --> 00:21:25
			this issue what I'm studying is leading me
		
00:21:25 --> 00:21:26
			to conclusion x.
		
00:21:26 --> 00:21:28
			Can you help me understand where I'm going
		
00:21:28 --> 00:21:30
			wrong here like help me figure this out
		
00:21:30 --> 00:21:37
			and to my shock more often than not
		
00:21:37 --> 00:21:42
			very conservative very traditional ulama are in agreement
		
00:21:42 --> 00:21:44
			with what I'm saying but only in private
		
00:21:44 --> 00:21:47
			settings and the reason for that is not
		
00:21:47 --> 00:21:49
			because they're dishonest the reason for that is
		
00:21:49 --> 00:21:51
			we have a mafia mentality in certain fragments
		
00:21:51 --> 00:21:55
			of the muslim community and if even scholars
		
00:21:55 --> 00:21:59
			speak their mind on something based on their
		
00:21:59 --> 00:22:01
			years of exhaustive study not because they've become
		
00:22:01 --> 00:22:04
			some puppet of a liberal agenda because they're
		
00:22:04 --> 00:22:06
			they've studied something but they're going to say
		
00:22:06 --> 00:22:09
			something that goes against the the the mob's
		
00:22:09 --> 00:22:12
			emotional comfort zone.
		
00:22:12 --> 00:22:13
			Unfortunately there's more than one mob you know
		
00:22:13 --> 00:22:15
			so yeah there's anything you either you're a
		
00:22:15 --> 00:22:18
			simp or you're isis right that's this is
		
00:22:18 --> 00:22:21
			life on twitter right so okay if you
		
00:22:21 --> 00:22:23
			say anything the people on the others you
		
00:22:23 --> 00:22:25
			know the other side are going to just
		
00:22:25 --> 00:22:27
			throw everything at you.
		
00:22:27 --> 00:22:29
			So here we are we've been discussing our
		
00:22:29 --> 00:22:33
			tradition we've been discussing our scholarship now we're
		
00:22:33 --> 00:22:36
			looking at also western scholarship and there's other
		
00:22:36 --> 00:22:39
			things we have to discuss but like we
		
00:22:39 --> 00:22:42
			have to really make a conscious decision to
		
00:22:42 --> 00:22:48
			hold on to right like here's what we're
		
00:22:48 --> 00:22:50
			finding here's what we're going to discuss we're
		
00:22:50 --> 00:22:52
			open to being corrected but we're not open
		
00:22:52 --> 00:22:56
			to being intimidated into silence not by western
		
00:22:56 --> 00:22:59
			criticism because it doesn't match their sensibilities and
		
00:22:59 --> 00:23:02
			not by some social norms that have been
		
00:23:02 --> 00:23:05
			established in the muslim community that don't want
		
00:23:05 --> 00:23:08
			to hear what actual investigation into the quran
		
00:23:08 --> 00:23:11
			into islam is saying because we don't want
		
00:23:11 --> 00:23:12
			to hear that that's not that's not what
		
00:23:12 --> 00:23:15
			i heard when i was growing up sorry
		
00:23:15 --> 00:23:17
			i'm actually not sorry we've got to discuss
		
00:23:17 --> 00:23:20
			it you know so speaking of discussing yeah
		
00:23:20 --> 00:23:24
			um you know we need to have platforms
		
00:23:24 --> 00:23:27
			and avenues through which serious research can be
		
00:23:27 --> 00:23:31
			published so we have got do you like
		
00:23:31 --> 00:23:33
			the transition was you know it was okay
		
00:23:33 --> 00:23:37
			i'll give it five out of so examples
		
00:23:37 --> 00:23:41
			can be journals within the muslim world or
		
00:23:41 --> 00:23:44
			of course there are western journals as well
		
00:23:44 --> 00:23:46
			so i've just got a few examples of
		
00:23:46 --> 00:23:48
			that genre of works here so this is
		
00:23:48 --> 00:23:52
			um this one i think is from egypt
		
00:23:52 --> 00:23:55
			but published in london if i remember correctly
		
00:23:55 --> 00:24:00
			called it's not a very famous one but
		
00:24:00 --> 00:24:02
			there are actually bigger ones that come out
		
00:24:02 --> 00:24:05
			of saudi um but this has some quite
		
00:24:05 --> 00:24:07
			uh prominent authors if you have scanned through
		
00:24:07 --> 00:24:09
			the names you may recognize yeah and this
		
00:24:09 --> 00:24:11
			was one that we picked up when we
		
00:24:11 --> 00:24:13
			went to malaysia the university of malaya have
		
00:24:13 --> 00:24:17
			this journal called quranica they don't know but
		
00:24:17 --> 00:24:18
			they stole that name from me because my
		
00:24:18 --> 00:24:21
			organization quranica used to be yes yes um
		
00:24:21 --> 00:24:26
			that's how i was introduced to you so
		
00:24:26 --> 00:24:28
			this is a quite old edition that i
		
00:24:28 --> 00:24:31
			happen to have with me um but you
		
00:24:31 --> 00:24:33
			know it's just examples of research around the
		
00:24:33 --> 00:24:36
			quran that gets published and you know it
		
00:24:36 --> 00:24:38
			can be in all sorts of topics um
		
00:24:38 --> 00:24:41
			it can be about historical topics or indeed
		
00:24:41 --> 00:24:44
			can be on on things that pertain to
		
00:24:44 --> 00:24:47
			the here and now and the future um
		
00:24:47 --> 00:24:49
			using the quran as you know the basis
		
00:24:49 --> 00:24:57
			for our explorations um this was a conference
		
00:24:57 --> 00:24:58
			that i attended in istanbul they have a
		
00:24:58 --> 00:25:04
			whole series on ottoman this this this particular
		
00:25:04 --> 00:25:06
			one is about ottoman tafsir and then they
		
00:25:06 --> 00:25:10
			have got ottoman hadith studies ottoman kalam studies
		
00:25:10 --> 00:25:13
			ottoman interesting you know also different ones so
		
00:25:13 --> 00:25:16
			this one all about tafsir most of it
		
00:25:16 --> 00:25:18
			is in turkish there were a few in
		
00:25:18 --> 00:25:20
			arabic and then a few in english so
		
00:25:20 --> 00:25:22
			i have a paper in here which i
		
00:25:22 --> 00:25:27
			presented there about it's called the digital mufasir
		
00:25:27 --> 00:25:31
			so it's about the tafsir al-alusi that
		
00:25:31 --> 00:25:32
			was so that i can get into the
		
00:25:32 --> 00:25:33
			ottoman conference i was like i'll make it
		
00:25:33 --> 00:25:36
			about alusi but i'll also make it about
		
00:25:36 --> 00:25:38
			something future facing so i didn't want to
		
00:25:38 --> 00:25:41
			look at it purely historically so what i
		
00:25:41 --> 00:25:45
			discussed in there is um imagine as it's
		
00:25:45 --> 00:25:47
			reimagining the tafsir of al-alusi for a
		
00:25:47 --> 00:25:49
			new era so i said imagine that we
		
00:25:49 --> 00:25:52
			managed to bring al-alusi to our modern
		
00:25:52 --> 00:25:56
			day using a time machine or we went
		
00:25:56 --> 00:25:58
			back to his time with the tools that
		
00:25:58 --> 00:26:00
			we have have this flick through if you
		
00:26:00 --> 00:26:03
			want and he wanted to compose this tafsir
		
00:26:03 --> 00:26:08
			how could we use digital tools to support
		
00:26:08 --> 00:26:10
			the production of that tafsir so the reason
		
00:26:10 --> 00:26:12
			for asking that question is to say well
		
00:26:12 --> 00:26:14
			if we wanted something as good as or
		
00:26:14 --> 00:26:16
			even greater than al-alusi in the future
		
00:26:16 --> 00:26:20
			how can digital approaches to authorship be brought
		
00:26:20 --> 00:26:23
			to bear instead of just doing the same
		
00:26:23 --> 00:26:26
			old book approach which which was the limit
		
00:26:26 --> 00:26:28
			of what they were able to to use
		
00:26:28 --> 00:26:32
			at their time uh so sometimes slightly zany
		
00:26:32 --> 00:26:36
			ideas these are a few issues i have
		
00:26:36 --> 00:26:39
			of the journal of studies i have a
		
00:26:39 --> 00:26:41
			few myself yeah which comes out of suas
		
00:26:41 --> 00:26:45
			and is printed in edinburgh um so these
		
00:26:45 --> 00:26:47
			are the ones typically that i've got a
		
00:26:47 --> 00:26:51
			paper in yes so so i'm sorry the
		
00:26:51 --> 00:26:53
			shaheen affair and the evolution of us all
		
00:26:53 --> 00:26:55
			of us here yeah we talked about that
		
00:26:55 --> 00:26:58
			one yeah uh about the solution and the
		
00:26:58 --> 00:27:01
			evolutionary reading of the quran so that was
		
00:27:01 --> 00:27:07
			in 2018 2019 and then this year i
		
00:27:07 --> 00:27:10
			had this one called fights and flights two
		
00:27:10 --> 00:27:14
			underrated alternatives to dominant readings in tafsir so
		
00:27:14 --> 00:27:18
			yeah journal of quranic studies uh the chief
		
00:27:18 --> 00:27:21
			editor is professor abdul halim so you know
		
00:27:21 --> 00:27:23
			it's got a special place in my heart
		
00:27:23 --> 00:27:28
			but um generally we uh as academics try
		
00:27:28 --> 00:27:31
			to publish in multiple journals and reach multiple
		
00:27:31 --> 00:27:37
			audiences so that's journals now you're ready for
		
00:27:37 --> 00:27:41
			another smooth transition i'm so ready so having
		
00:27:41 --> 00:27:43
			talked about some of the western writings we
		
00:27:43 --> 00:27:47
			have here also uh gabriel side reynolds has
		
00:27:47 --> 00:27:49
			got a couple of books uh which are
		
00:27:49 --> 00:27:53
			very significant and important for us to consider
		
00:27:53 --> 00:27:56
			the quran and its biblical subtext yeah and
		
00:27:56 --> 00:27:58
			this one the quran and the bible which
		
00:27:58 --> 00:28:01
			is kind of uh you know it's a
		
00:28:01 --> 00:28:03
			translation of the quran by ali quli and
		
00:28:03 --> 00:28:08
			karai his name is ali quli karai um
		
00:28:08 --> 00:28:13
			he's a shia translator of the quran but
		
00:28:13 --> 00:28:15
			the footnotes here or the notes that he's
		
00:28:15 --> 00:28:20
			added uh gabriel reynolds has added are essentially
		
00:28:20 --> 00:28:24
			what um western academics have identified in terms
		
00:28:24 --> 00:28:29
			of intertexts or connecting passages from the bible
		
00:28:29 --> 00:28:32
			you know potentially sources from the bible or
		
00:28:32 --> 00:28:34
			elsewhere according to their perspective i mean yeah
		
00:28:34 --> 00:28:37
			um so then of course you know for
		
00:28:37 --> 00:28:40
			muslims it's very straightforward and simple to think
		
00:28:40 --> 00:28:42
			that it's not a source but merely you
		
00:28:42 --> 00:28:45
			know something in common because allah revealed the
		
00:28:45 --> 00:28:48
			quran and he revealed the books uh before
		
00:28:48 --> 00:28:53
			yeah from which these things appear but of
		
00:28:53 --> 00:28:55
			course this ties closely with a genre which
		
00:28:55 --> 00:28:58
			i'm sort of pulling up here which is
		
00:28:58 --> 00:29:04
			called israeli um roughly speaking judaica or judeo
		
00:29:04 --> 00:29:08
			-christian materials um and you know in the
		
00:29:08 --> 00:29:12
			early periods especially and even later uh would
		
00:29:12 --> 00:29:16
			include such things in their commentaries so when
		
00:29:16 --> 00:29:18
			you have stories of the prophets for example
		
00:29:19 --> 00:29:21
			and the quran can often be very brief
		
00:29:21 --> 00:29:23
			and leave out a lot of the detail
		
00:29:23 --> 00:29:29
			for very uh high wisdom reasons yet somehow
		
00:29:29 --> 00:29:32
			when you are writing a commentary it feels
		
00:29:33 --> 00:29:35
			unsatisfactory to just sort of say and we
		
00:29:35 --> 00:29:36
			don't know this and we don't know that
		
00:29:36 --> 00:29:39
			they'd rather say well you know we have
		
00:29:39 --> 00:29:41
			some information that we heard uh that this
		
00:29:41 --> 00:29:44
			prophet actually this person was called that and
		
00:29:44 --> 00:29:45
			this was their name and this is where
		
00:29:45 --> 00:29:48
			they lived and so they add extra details
		
00:29:48 --> 00:29:51
			and the source of that you know typically
		
00:29:51 --> 00:29:53
			isn't from the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam himself
		
00:29:53 --> 00:29:55
			which would make it hadith and authoritative but
		
00:29:55 --> 00:29:58
			it comes from you know those who were
		
00:29:58 --> 00:30:00
			around who knew about the previous scriptures converts
		
00:30:00 --> 00:30:02
			from the people of the book or even
		
00:30:02 --> 00:30:05
			maybe sometimes not converts even yeah but discussions
		
00:30:05 --> 00:30:09
			and things that would circulate so that kind
		
00:30:09 --> 00:30:11
			of material you know later on you find
		
00:30:11 --> 00:30:14
			uh you know azhari scholars and even before
		
00:30:14 --> 00:30:17
			them people like ibn kathir and his tafsir
		
00:30:17 --> 00:30:21
			al-alusi and his tafsir who are very
		
00:30:21 --> 00:30:24
			negative about israeliyat especially when they become very
		
00:30:24 --> 00:30:28
			extensive and you know elaborate and beside the
		
00:30:28 --> 00:30:31
			point of what the quran is is focusing
		
00:30:31 --> 00:30:34
			on but if you go to the early
		
00:30:34 --> 00:30:36
			period you find they were fairly easy with
		
00:30:36 --> 00:30:41
			this like they didn't necessarily say these uh
		
00:30:41 --> 00:30:44
			texts and narrations are the authority to interpret
		
00:30:44 --> 00:30:46
			the quran but they just saw it as
		
00:30:46 --> 00:30:49
			reading it alongside you know does no harm
		
00:30:49 --> 00:30:52
			i think western academics at least they didn't
		
00:30:52 --> 00:30:54
			realize they were doing this for me but
		
00:30:54 --> 00:30:57
			they did they got me thinking about israeliyat
		
00:30:57 --> 00:30:59
			a certain way so the old way was
		
00:30:59 --> 00:31:00
			we shouldn't rely on them because we can't
		
00:31:00 --> 00:31:02
			trust what the bible is telling us and
		
00:31:02 --> 00:31:03
			we shouldn't use that to fill the gaps
		
00:31:03 --> 00:31:05
			in the story of the being told by
		
00:31:05 --> 00:31:09
			the quran well and good the western academics
		
00:31:09 --> 00:31:10
			come along and the first thing they notice
		
00:31:10 --> 00:31:13
			is the bible is clearly being contradicted by
		
00:31:13 --> 00:31:15
			the quran in the same story the quran
		
00:31:15 --> 00:31:17
			is telling the story of noah and abraham
		
00:31:17 --> 00:31:20
			and jesus and whoever else in very different
		
00:31:20 --> 00:31:22
			ways so they're common ground and there's also
		
00:31:22 --> 00:31:25
			these divergences right so the first wave in
		
00:31:25 --> 00:31:27
			western academics that i that i have got
		
00:31:27 --> 00:31:30
			familiarized with was that the quran simply got
		
00:31:30 --> 00:31:33
			it wrong there's there's the bible account there
		
00:31:33 --> 00:31:36
			wasn't very good plagiarism so it's plagiarized from
		
00:31:36 --> 00:31:37
			the bible but not a very good job
		
00:31:37 --> 00:31:40
			later waves in western academics comes along and
		
00:31:40 --> 00:31:43
			says actually this doesn't look like plagiarism at
		
00:31:43 --> 00:31:46
			all this looks like a retelling so they
		
00:31:46 --> 00:31:49
			call it the retelling what that means to
		
00:31:49 --> 00:31:51
			them is that the bible has a story
		
00:31:51 --> 00:31:53
			and the quran seems to put a new
		
00:31:53 --> 00:31:55
			spin on that story i look at it
		
00:31:55 --> 00:31:57
			from a confessional iman point of view and
		
00:31:57 --> 00:31:59
			what i look at it as is the
		
00:31:59 --> 00:32:01
			so the quran is taking an existing story
		
00:32:01 --> 00:32:04
			that was not only found in the bible
		
00:32:04 --> 00:32:07
			among the christian and jewish communities but that's
		
00:32:07 --> 00:32:09
			somehow also spread in the arabian region there
		
00:32:09 --> 00:32:12
			is interaction between uh jewish christians and other
		
00:32:12 --> 00:32:15
			other faith communities so it was an interesting
		
00:32:15 --> 00:32:16
			example of that it's not a biblical story
		
00:32:16 --> 00:32:19
			it's a post-biblical story of saints that
		
00:32:19 --> 00:32:22
			was popular among a certain section of christians
		
00:32:22 --> 00:32:26
			so what the quran is doing is it
		
00:32:26 --> 00:32:29
			is taking something that people are vaguely familiar
		
00:32:29 --> 00:32:33
			with and then not in great detail to
		
00:32:33 --> 00:32:36
			contradict everything that they've heard before but actually
		
00:32:36 --> 00:32:39
			tell the most important parts of the story
		
00:32:39 --> 00:32:42
			that number one highlights what has been corrupted
		
00:32:42 --> 00:32:46
			from what's become popular right so then okay
		
00:32:46 --> 00:32:50
			so it's clearly diverging which means the details
		
00:32:50 --> 00:32:52
			about names and lineage and location and all
		
00:32:52 --> 00:32:57
			of that stuff is fine but now oh
		
00:32:57 --> 00:33:00
			that's what really happened so the quran isn't
		
00:33:00 --> 00:33:01
			focused on all of it it's focused on
		
00:33:01 --> 00:33:05
			the part that got needs attention that needs
		
00:33:05 --> 00:33:07
			attention and it's recalibrating it and bringing it
		
00:33:07 --> 00:33:09
			back to a purposeful story so it's no
		
00:33:09 --> 00:33:13
			longer just history or interesting facts or interesting
		
00:33:13 --> 00:33:17
			legends or stories now it's purposeful so studying
		
00:33:17 --> 00:33:21
			the biblical account is actually really beneficial in
		
00:33:21 --> 00:33:24
			not that over simplistically coming back to the
		
00:33:24 --> 00:33:26
			muslim attitude oh we don't take the seer
		
00:33:26 --> 00:33:29
			from these sources because we can't trust them
		
00:33:29 --> 00:33:32
			actually i think we should look at it
		
00:33:32 --> 00:33:34
			from a different lens the quran is offering
		
00:33:34 --> 00:33:37
			us by doing this biblical subtext study an
		
00:33:37 --> 00:33:39
			insight into how did the mind of the
		
00:33:39 --> 00:33:42
			jewish and the christian average jew and christian
		
00:33:42 --> 00:33:44
			and the rabbi and the priest how how
		
00:33:44 --> 00:33:46
			were they processing these stories and when the
		
00:33:46 --> 00:33:49
			quran came along how did they see that
		
00:33:49 --> 00:33:53
			the quran is hitting at some really key
		
00:33:53 --> 00:33:57
			pain points that the most knowledgeable among them
		
00:33:57 --> 00:34:00
			know about right so it's it's doing something
		
00:34:00 --> 00:34:03
			really remarkable here now one of the places
		
00:34:03 --> 00:34:05
			that i thought was the most um fascinating
		
00:34:05 --> 00:34:08
			because musa is such a huge topic in
		
00:34:08 --> 00:34:11
			the quran and moses is you know a
		
00:34:11 --> 00:34:14
			huge chunk of of the old testament is
		
00:34:14 --> 00:34:16
			is a cent he's a central figure really
		
00:34:16 --> 00:34:19
			of the old testament um we have a
		
00:34:19 --> 00:34:21
			story of him that they don't have we
		
00:34:21 --> 00:34:25
			have the musa story and there's it's nowhere
		
00:34:25 --> 00:34:29
			to be found i thought it was profoundly
		
00:34:29 --> 00:34:31
			interesting that this occurs in surat al-ghaf
		
00:34:31 --> 00:34:35
			where if we are to trace our narrations
		
00:34:35 --> 00:34:37
			in our tafasir about what's in the backdrop
		
00:34:37 --> 00:34:40
			of surat al-ghaf there's an attempt to
		
00:34:40 --> 00:34:43
			prove the prophet is not very knowledgeable so
		
00:34:43 --> 00:34:46
			ask him riddle riddle questions right and allah
		
00:34:46 --> 00:34:49
			remarkably tells a story that the supposedly knowledgeable
		
00:34:49 --> 00:34:52
			of their own prophet aren't knowledgeable of regarding
		
00:34:52 --> 00:34:57
			their own prophet because there's no subtext for
		
00:34:57 --> 00:35:00
			the musa story and orientalists are like is
		
00:35:00 --> 00:35:03
			this gilgamesh is this taken from this legend
		
00:35:03 --> 00:35:06
			or that legend i look at his quran
		
00:35:06 --> 00:35:09
			is doing something completely different here it's saying
		
00:35:09 --> 00:35:11
			yep i'll tell you something you didn't even
		
00:35:11 --> 00:35:13
			know about your own prophet a journey he
		
00:35:13 --> 00:35:14
			took that clearly he didn't see fit to
		
00:35:14 --> 00:35:19
			tell you about you know so it seems
		
00:35:19 --> 00:35:21
			that the you know approaching these things whether
		
00:35:21 --> 00:35:24
			you want to term this the study of
		
00:35:24 --> 00:35:25
			israeliyat or you want to think of it
		
00:35:25 --> 00:35:28
			as subtext of the quran it's a very
		
00:35:28 --> 00:35:32
			rich field there's also absolutely uh a need
		
00:35:32 --> 00:35:35
			for for greater precision in the approaches and
		
00:35:35 --> 00:35:37
			i think you've you've done your own moraja
		
00:35:37 --> 00:35:39
			that is to say you've revised your own
		
00:35:39 --> 00:35:41
			stance on that over time as you see
		
00:35:41 --> 00:35:44
			more there are scholars also in the arab
		
00:35:44 --> 00:35:47
			world like this group of scholars led by
		
00:35:47 --> 00:35:49
			dr al-sa'ad al-tayyar and marcus
		
00:35:49 --> 00:35:54
			tafsir published this one and here they're making
		
00:35:54 --> 00:35:57
			the argument to an arab scholarly audience that
		
00:35:57 --> 00:35:59
			you know we need to sort of wind
		
00:35:59 --> 00:36:01
			back some of the negativity towards israeli and
		
00:36:01 --> 00:36:04
			recognize a role that they can play so
		
00:36:04 --> 00:36:06
			i think that there's a further conversation to
		
00:36:06 --> 00:36:08
			be had you know especially with things that
		
00:36:08 --> 00:36:11
			we've gleaned from our experiences and our readings
		
00:36:11 --> 00:36:13
			in in western academia discuss when the time
		
00:36:13 --> 00:36:16
			comes with marcus tafsir and this group what
		
00:36:16 --> 00:36:19
			we did with surat yusuf because that was
		
00:36:19 --> 00:36:23
			a really interesting exercise of the biblical subtext
		
00:36:23 --> 00:36:25
			and how the quran diverges and from what
		
00:36:25 --> 00:36:27
			i came to know later even non-muslim
		
00:36:27 --> 00:36:31
			academics and actually even christian missionaries and people
		
00:36:31 --> 00:36:34
			in the confessional space in the christian space
		
00:36:34 --> 00:36:36
			and the jewish space were actually interested in
		
00:36:36 --> 00:36:38
			what we were doing with surat yusuf and
		
00:36:38 --> 00:36:41
			joseph in the bible yeah so there's a
		
00:36:41 --> 00:36:45
			richness to engaging with those texts but not
		
00:36:45 --> 00:36:48
			just simply throwing things on top of that's
		
00:36:48 --> 00:36:53
			right um so let's conclude this with a
		
00:36:53 --> 00:36:55
			work that i i know that you're familiar
		
00:36:55 --> 00:36:57
			with yeah this is the english version of
		
00:36:57 --> 00:36:59
			it is called the onomastic miracle in the
		
00:36:59 --> 00:37:01
			quran it's a strange word i don't think
		
00:37:01 --> 00:37:02
			many people know onomastic but it's to do
		
00:37:02 --> 00:37:06
			with proper names in the quran especially names
		
00:37:06 --> 00:37:09
			of the prophets and so on and it's
		
00:37:09 --> 00:37:12
			arabic title in the so the the same
		
00:37:12 --> 00:37:14
			author summarized it in english that's what's happened
		
00:37:14 --> 00:37:16
			here but it's called min air jazz the
		
00:37:16 --> 00:37:22
			quran um so he makes a very surprising
		
00:37:22 --> 00:37:25
			kind of argument yeah he does um and
		
00:37:25 --> 00:37:28
			quite bold claims actually which i know some
		
00:37:28 --> 00:37:32
			people find almost disqualifying right in the beginning
		
00:37:32 --> 00:37:34
			that he sees that all languages descend from
		
00:37:34 --> 00:37:38
			arabic yeah this cannot really stand but regardless
		
00:37:38 --> 00:37:41
			of that what he does on a micro
		
00:37:41 --> 00:37:46
			level is he looks at individual names of
		
00:37:46 --> 00:37:51
			for example ibrahim islam and he says well
		
00:37:51 --> 00:37:55
			here's how hebrew scholars have tended to analyze
		
00:37:55 --> 00:37:57
			that name and this is what they think
		
00:37:57 --> 00:38:00
			it means but in the quran we have
		
00:38:00 --> 00:38:04
			a pointer towards another kind of meaning so
		
00:38:04 --> 00:38:06
			he makes an argument based on his knowledge
		
00:38:06 --> 00:38:08
			of semitics and it's interesting he adds something
		
00:38:08 --> 00:38:10
			else so he says he makes the claim
		
00:38:10 --> 00:38:12
			sometimes that biblical scholars got it wrong so
		
00:38:12 --> 00:38:14
			he'll say about abraham it's not a it's
		
00:38:14 --> 00:38:17
			not a hebrew name because he wasn't a
		
00:38:17 --> 00:38:21
			hebrew he is he's in ancient babylonia so
		
00:38:21 --> 00:38:23
			it's a babylonian name so we have to
		
00:38:23 --> 00:38:25
			look at the babylonian language to try and
		
00:38:25 --> 00:38:27
			do the etymology of his name he'll say
		
00:38:27 --> 00:38:29
			about musa instead of looking at mu shay
		
00:38:29 --> 00:38:32
			which is something along the lines of something
		
00:38:32 --> 00:38:35
			in the water ma and shay jewish hebrew
		
00:38:35 --> 00:38:40
			closeness to to mu and shay which fits
		
00:38:40 --> 00:38:41
			the story right but he says no they
		
00:38:41 --> 00:38:43
			wouldn't have they wouldn't have named him in
		
00:38:43 --> 00:38:45
			hebrew because he was raised in the pharaoh's
		
00:38:45 --> 00:38:48
			castle as a prince so he must have
		
00:38:48 --> 00:38:49
			been named in the language of the master
		
00:38:49 --> 00:38:51
			not the because he wasn't raised as a
		
00:38:51 --> 00:38:53
			slave so the name given to him must
		
00:38:53 --> 00:38:56
			not have been in the slave language right
		
00:38:56 --> 00:38:57
			so he says well maybe if we want
		
00:38:57 --> 00:39:00
			to look at explore musa we should look
		
00:39:00 --> 00:39:03
			at ancient egyptian to figure out what what
		
00:39:03 --> 00:39:06
			musa means so he's he he's he traces
		
00:39:06 --> 00:39:08
			i think five or six languages that he
		
00:39:08 --> 00:39:11
			says that foreign names in the quran non
		
00:39:11 --> 00:39:12
			-arab names in the quran can be traced
		
00:39:12 --> 00:39:15
			back to uh the the second part of
		
00:39:15 --> 00:39:19
			his argument is that the quran is situating
		
00:39:19 --> 00:39:23
			these names in contexts which explain the meaning
		
00:39:23 --> 00:39:25
			which explain the meaning of the name so
		
00:39:25 --> 00:39:29
			what he's saying for example with ismail uh
		
00:39:29 --> 00:39:31
			is actually he is does trace it to
		
00:39:31 --> 00:39:33
			hebrew this one and he says it's yashmail
		
00:39:33 --> 00:39:37
			or yashmail which is actually il is their
		
00:39:37 --> 00:39:40
			word for god like allah and then yash
		
00:39:40 --> 00:39:44
			yashma is like yes to listen and yes
		
00:39:44 --> 00:39:48
			my allah is allah listens so ismail is
		
00:39:48 --> 00:39:49
			actually god listens and the story is when
		
00:39:49 --> 00:39:51
			the baby was born abraham is overjoyed and
		
00:39:51 --> 00:39:53
			he says god listens and that becomes his
		
00:39:53 --> 00:39:57
			name right so but that's i think uh
		
00:39:57 --> 00:40:02
			within the jewish understanding as well yes yes
		
00:40:02 --> 00:40:05
			but with the ibrahim for example he says
		
00:40:05 --> 00:40:08
			well it actually means imam yeah i remember
		
00:40:08 --> 00:40:11
			then he says then in the first leader
		
00:40:11 --> 00:40:14
			of many leader of many is what he
		
00:40:14 --> 00:40:17
			breaks it up as yeah but then but
		
00:40:17 --> 00:40:20
			then he gives an arabic imam because it's
		
00:40:20 --> 00:40:22
			like in the in the ayah itself the
		
00:40:22 --> 00:40:27
			first mention of yeah there's a there's a
		
00:40:27 --> 00:40:30
			pointer within the text towards the meaning that's
		
00:40:30 --> 00:40:31
			what he was doing with ismail when he
		
00:40:31 --> 00:40:37
			says you listen right so so he so
		
00:40:37 --> 00:40:38
			he's made these kinds of correlations with about
		
00:40:38 --> 00:40:40
			60 names in the quran so i think
		
00:40:40 --> 00:40:43
			it's a very ambitious project and one which
		
00:40:43 --> 00:40:46
			um again like when we said about the
		
00:40:46 --> 00:40:49
			uh the one by bism massai where it's
		
00:40:49 --> 00:40:52
			quite a radical proposition it throws you know
		
00:40:52 --> 00:40:55
			new ideas onto the table yeah which deserve
		
00:40:55 --> 00:40:57
			to be reckoned with and then you might
		
00:40:57 --> 00:41:01
			find that not everything holds up but even
		
00:41:01 --> 00:41:03
			if 50 of what he says is is
		
00:41:03 --> 00:41:05
			solid and sound it would still be an
		
00:41:05 --> 00:41:07
			amazing thing so one really cool one that
		
00:41:07 --> 00:41:11
			comes to mind is uh david which david
		
00:41:11 --> 00:41:14
			which is daoud to us right and david
		
00:41:14 --> 00:41:18
			is actually deed is um might and david
		
00:41:18 --> 00:41:21
			is the the one of might and the
		
00:41:21 --> 00:41:27
			quran uses aid aid which you know kind
		
00:41:27 --> 00:41:32
			of translates daoud in that way yeah he's
		
00:41:32 --> 00:41:34
			got some interesting ones uh i asked sharif
		
00:41:34 --> 00:41:36
			on our team yeah to evaluate some of
		
00:41:36 --> 00:41:38
			his work and he has criticisms of some
		
00:41:38 --> 00:41:39
			of it he approves of some of it
		
00:41:39 --> 00:41:42
			so it was interesting i put together a
		
00:41:42 --> 00:41:45
			kind of uh a work group to go
		
00:41:45 --> 00:41:47
			through it a bit by bit i have
		
00:41:47 --> 00:41:49
			summarized notes on it if you want them
		
00:41:49 --> 00:41:54
			yeah so so alhamdulillah so this was our
		
00:41:54 --> 00:41:58
			our look at biblical studies there's there's another
		
00:41:58 --> 00:42:02
			there's a section you wanted to do about
		
00:42:02 --> 00:42:05
			yeah so that's that's next that's next okay
		
00:42:05 --> 00:42:08
			inshallah so we'll talk about that everyone hope
		
00:42:08 --> 00:42:10
			you guys are enjoying it we certainly are
		
00:42:13 --> 00:42:18
			goodbye now get out how would you like
		
00:42:18 --> 00:42:20
			to explore the heart of the quran surat
		
00:42:20 --> 00:42:24
			yaseen guided by an important mufasir of the
		
00:42:24 --> 00:42:27
			20th century muhammad al-tahir ibn ashur we've
		
00:42:27 --> 00:42:28
			put on a special course at the ibn
		
00:42:28 --> 00:42:31
			ashur center going through surat yaseen with a
		
00:42:31 --> 00:42:34
			new translation and a new commentary based on
		
00:42:34 --> 00:42:37
			the important insights of this great exegete head
		
00:42:37 --> 00:42:40
			on over to ibn ashur.com slash academy
		
00:42:40 --> 00:42:41
			to find out more