Nouman Ali Khan – Bridging Cultural Differences Through Understanding and Growth

Nouman Ali Khan
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AI: Summary ©

The speakers discuss their hometown culture and past struggles with their parents, including parenting issues and their desire to learn a language. They emphasize the importance of story nights and first principles for every Muslim, including parents' beliefs and divine speech in shaping one's identity. The story of the first known story in the world is emphasized, including the importance of story nights and the importance of first principles for every Muslim, including parents' beliefs and divine speech in shaping one's identity.

AI: Summary ©

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			And that's why my family wasn't really religious,
		
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			because for over 100 years, this atheism propaganda
		
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			was really taught in schools and everyone...
		
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			They were trying to gut Islam for a
		
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			century.
		
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			Yeah.
		
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			So having to actually write a paper on
		
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			the existence of God, that was kind of
		
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			like, I was kind of like, mind struck,
		
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			like, what do I even write?
		
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			Like, my paper was blank for about a
		
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			week.
		
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			I was like, I didn't even know what
		
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			to write.
		
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			And what we often do in our study
		
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			of history, these last 400 years, the most
		
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			recent 400 years, is we separate the Islamic
		
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			history, Islamic scholarly history, from the political history.
		
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			As though they're two separate subjects.
		
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			Religion and politics are never separate.
		
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			They're never separate.
		
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			The state or forces or money is always
		
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			involved in what becomes the dominant narrative.
		
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			Now think about that for a moment.
		
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			Parents are a core part of your identity,
		
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			right?
		
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			Both physically and psychologically and socially, in every
		
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			way, right?
		
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			Now take that back.
		
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			Who's our parent?
		
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			Adam.
		
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			Adam.
		
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			If you don't know your parent, then you
		
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			don't really know you.
		
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			The way Allah talks about Adam in Surah
		
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			Al-Baqarah, some of that is also the
		
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			way he talks about the Israelites.
		
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			In the name of Allah, peace and blessings
		
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			be upon the Messenger of Allah, and upon
		
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			his family and companions.
		
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			Peace and blessings be upon you.
		
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			Let's start by introducing yourselves.
		
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			Okay, my name is Syed Bek, but you
		
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			can say I go with Syed.
		
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			I'm originally from Uzbekistan.
		
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			I was born and raised there, so I
		
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			came to the U.S. when I was
		
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			18 in 2012.
		
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			So I've been living in the U.S.
		
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			and doing my best here in the U
		
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			.S. 2018, you said?
		
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			2012.
		
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			2012, sorry.
		
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			Yeah, 2012.
		
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			It's been like 12 years now.
		
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			Where do you live in the U.S.?
		
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			I live in Virginia, right next to D
		
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			.C. and DMV area.
		
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			Okay.
		
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			I'm familiar.
		
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			I spend a little bit of time in
		
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			- You've been there a lot.
		
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			We've met a lot.
		
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			Yeah, I lived there for a little bit.
		
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			You do?
		
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			I lived in Alexandria for a little bit.
		
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			I didn't tell anybody, but I did.
		
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			Was that before or after the- Not
		
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			telling you the timeline.
		
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			Nice.
		
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			Well, we hope to see you there again.
		
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			Yeah, I don't like it.
		
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			I have some very good, very close friends
		
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			in D.C., actually.
		
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			I go often.
		
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			Every couple of months, I'm in Virginia, D
		
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			.C., especially Tyson's area.
		
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			Every couple of months?
		
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			Every couple of months, yeah.
		
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			Because I have some very, very close friends
		
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			from, God, my college days.
		
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			Where do they live?
		
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			That's personal.
		
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			Okay.
		
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			They live in Tyson's area.
		
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			They live in the Tyson's area.
		
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			Okay.
		
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			And a bunch of my old New York
		
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			friends, they moved out there.
		
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			Nice.
		
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			I just go hang out with them, and
		
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			we just sit and talk all night.
		
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			Okay.
		
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			We do that sometimes.
		
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			It's not really enticing to invite them here
		
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			to Texas, so I go there.
		
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			We'll try to catch you next time, then.
		
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			Yeah, Inshallah.
		
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			You know, one thing, if I were to
		
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			ever leave Dallas, I'd probably move to D
		
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			.C. If anything, I can't think of anywhere
		
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			else in the country, and I have a
		
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			reason for that.
		
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			Not because it's pretty, because I don't think
		
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			it's pretty.
		
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			It's, there's a brain drain, I feel, or
		
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			there's a ceiling.
		
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			There's an intellectual ceiling in many parts of
		
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			the country, right?
		
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			And that's because a lot of places are
		
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			insulated, right?
		
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			So there's much a lot of brilliant people
		
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			everywhere, right?
		
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			But you have like, you know, there's industries,
		
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			right?
		
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			There's tech industries big in, and oil and
		
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			gas is big in Texas, right?
		
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			Or the medical industry or whatever.
		
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			So you have these professionals that are accomplished
		
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			in these fields.
		
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			They're here, right?
		
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			But we don't have an influx of historians
		
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			and political scientists and sociologists and anthropologists and
		
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			researchers and dignitaries and ambassadors.
		
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			You don't have that, right?
		
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			D.C. is one of those places.
		
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			Not only is it, you know, a hotspot
		
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			for universities, but it's also, you know, because
		
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			of Washington, D.C., so many intellectuals fly
		
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			in from around the world there.
		
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			So I get to be in a place
		
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			where I can learn from people just in
		
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			conversation, right?
		
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			And even though I benefit a lot from
		
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			local discussions, there's still a cap.
		
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			I feel a cap in suburbia, you know,
		
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			that I'm drawn to a place where I
		
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			can constantly grow or I can gain perspective
		
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			I didn't have before.
		
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			And every time I've gone to D.C.,
		
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			I've experienced that.
		
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			Yeah, yeah.
		
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			I live close to Dulles Airport.
		
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			Okay.
		
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			And we see a lot of planes in
		
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			and out, but I see a lot of
		
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			private jets, like flying in and out.
		
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			That makes it right.
		
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			Yeah, yeah, yeah.
		
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			What about yourself?
		
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			My name is Anan.
		
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			I'm actually Palestinian, but I was born and
		
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			raised in Saudi Arabia.
		
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			And until what age?
		
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			Until 18.
		
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			Wow, Mashallah.
		
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			Until actually him and I actually same age.
		
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			And we came to the United States the
		
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			same year, too.
		
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			I came in 2012.
		
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			And yeah, I've lived here ever since.
		
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			And I still never went back to Saudi
		
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			and not even for a visit till just
		
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			last December.
		
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			You came here same age?
		
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			Yeah.
		
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			18.
		
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			18, yeah.
		
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			Did you speak English when you came here?
		
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			I mean, you don't really speak the language
		
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			of the country until you go to the
		
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			country.
		
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			But I mean, in Arab standards, yeah, I
		
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			spoke a little bit.
		
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			Yeah.
		
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			You don't have an accent anymore.
		
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			It's barely like, it's like 1%.
		
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			Yeah.
		
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			I could tell you Arabic, but that's.
		
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			Yeah, no, actually, my parents had me in
		
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			what they call back home is an international
		
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			school.
		
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			Yeah.
		
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			They teach only in English.
		
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			What city were you in?
		
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			Riyadh.
		
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			You were in Riyadh?
		
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			Yeah.
		
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			I was in Riyadh.
		
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			Yeah, you were in Riyadh.
		
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			I was going to ask you about that
		
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			actually, see what you're like, what age?
		
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			Yeah, we used to live in Malaz.
		
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			Oh, in Malaz.
		
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			Malaz, yeah.
		
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			And Nasiriyah was my school.
		
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			What was it?
		
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			There was a town called Nasiriyah.
		
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			Oh, Nasiriyah.
		
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			Yeah.
		
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			So what age did you?
		
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			We left after the Gulf War.
		
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			So we left in 92.
		
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			I was there during the war.
		
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			We were learning how to put gas masks
		
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			on and all that stuff.
		
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			You remember?
		
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			Yeah, I remember.
		
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			I was in seventh grade.
		
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			Oh, wow.
		
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			Like we didn't go to seventh grade because
		
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			the schools were in danger of being rocketed.
		
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			So we just stayed home for a year
		
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			and just put newspapers on windows and light
		
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			rejecting plastic trash bags so that in case
		
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			there's a ground invasion, soldiers wouldn't think there's
		
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			someone inside.
		
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			They were training us to prepare for all
		
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			these kinds of scenarios.
		
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			It's wild.
		
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			Yeah, it is wild actually.
		
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			I haven't imagined, especially comparing it to the
		
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			experience that I grew up in Saudi, it's
		
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			kind of like one of the very safer
		
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			areas.
		
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			Yeah, we experienced that vulnerability.
		
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			And my parents, they're from Pakistan.
		
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			So they experienced the 1965 and 1972-71
		
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			wars in Pakistan.
		
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			So they had a little bit of being
		
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			civilians in a war zone experience.
		
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			It was wild.
		
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			Like every time the siren would go off,
		
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			they'd know exactly what to do.
		
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			Stand in a doorway or make the kids,
		
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			my sister and I, my sisters and I
		
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			would lie down under a mattress in case
		
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			debris falls.
		
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			Like it's wild.
		
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			Yeah, your parents were very well equipped for
		
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			it.
		
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			They knew what they were doing, yeah.
		
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			There was a Scud missile debris that fell.
		
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			It was a half a mile from our
		
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			house.
		
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			It leveled an entire apartment complex.
		
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			Like it was a very wide, not an
		
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			entire, half of it was just gone.
		
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			It was like a slice of cake.
		
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			It was just gone.
		
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			And you could see the insides of people's
		
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			house when we drove to school.
		
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			It was crazy.
		
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			Yeah, yeah.
		
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			That would be actually like a somewhat of
		
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			a, mashaAllah, a traumatizing experience actually to have
		
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			to go through that.
		
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			I was too young and stupid to think
		
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			it was traumatizing.
		
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			I just thought it was exciting.
		
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			It was like no school.
		
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			Like movies.
		
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			The alarm goes on.
		
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			I'm in the middle of playing tag with
		
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			my sister and I'm like, okay, I gotta
		
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			go.
		
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			That's funny.
		
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			But yeah, no, my parents had me in
		
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			an only English speaking school.
		
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			But after that, my mom was very concerned
		
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			about my brothers and I losing our Arabic.
		
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			Because there was such a focus on learning
		
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			English and learning English, you know, going to
		
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			American universities and learning English is basically the
		
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			future.
		
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			So my mom was very worried about that
		
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			influx of thought into the country is going
		
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			to actually dilute my knowledge in Arabic.
		
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			Both my brothers and I, with three of
		
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			us.
		
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			And she was like, I need them to
		
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			learn Arabic.
		
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			And I need them to learn Islam.
		
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			I need them to learn religion.
		
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			So English, I'll teach them myself like at
		
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			home or like they will catch on to
		
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			it.
		
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			Or once I send them to the United
		
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			States at some point, they'll learn themselves.
		
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			They're just gonna get it.
		
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			Yeah, they'll just get it.
		
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			But I don't know at what point in
		
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			their future are they going to take it
		
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			upon themselves to learn Arabic, to learn Islam.
		
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			So I'm gonna have to put them in
		
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			a school that where they will be infused
		
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			into it.
		
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			And then they'll like, I'll just give them
		
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			the basics.
		
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			And then they're on their own from there.
		
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			So after kindergarten, they had me and my
		
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			brothers into like an Arabic school.
		
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			It's like madaris ahliyya, they called it.
		
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			So there was just all Arabic schools, like
		
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			very traditionally Muslim schools.
		
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			So you went to very traditional Muslim schooling
		
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			for a good number of years.
		
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			Yeah, basically my entire life, I was in
		
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			the same school.
		
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			It was like an all boys type thing?
		
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			All boys.
		
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			Yeah, all boys type thing.
		
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			Actually, I was just telling him like, comparing
		
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			our lives before and after we came to
		
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			the United States.
		
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			It's a world of a difference.
		
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			Yeah, I was like, it would be normal
		
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			for me to go two and three months
		
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			without seeing a single woman besides my mom
		
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			and my sister.
		
00:10:13 --> 00:10:14
			And that'll be okay.
		
00:10:14 --> 00:10:15
			That was our Saudi life.
		
00:10:15 --> 00:10:16
			Yeah, that was Saudi life.
		
00:10:16 --> 00:10:18
			Yeah, same thing with me.
		
00:10:18 --> 00:10:19
			Second grade to eighth grade, that was what
		
00:10:19 --> 00:10:20
			life looked like.
		
00:10:20 --> 00:10:22
			And even when I moved to Pakistan for
		
00:10:22 --> 00:10:23
			almost a year, I was in a Pakistani
		
00:10:23 --> 00:10:23
			school.
		
00:10:24 --> 00:10:25
			Was it the same thing?
		
00:10:25 --> 00:10:26
			Was it the same thing?
		
00:10:26 --> 00:10:26
			Yeah.
		
00:10:27 --> 00:10:27
			Yeah.
		
00:10:27 --> 00:10:29
			Yeah, and the really messed up boys were
		
00:10:29 --> 00:10:31
			waiting outside the girls school.
		
00:10:31 --> 00:10:32
			You'd walk by them and just go like
		
00:10:32 --> 00:10:33
			this.
		
00:10:35 --> 00:10:37
			Yeah, no, actually there was like a Berlin
		
00:10:37 --> 00:10:38
			wall between us.
		
00:10:39 --> 00:10:39
			Wow.
		
00:10:39 --> 00:10:41
			Yeah, yeah, we had that too.
		
00:10:41 --> 00:10:42
			Yeah, exactly.
		
00:10:42 --> 00:10:42
			Yeah.
		
00:10:42 --> 00:10:45
			They had curtains like these, but two layers
		
00:10:45 --> 00:10:45
			of them.
		
00:10:46 --> 00:10:46
			Yeah.
		
00:10:47 --> 00:10:49
			And then you'd have to call, I used
		
00:10:49 --> 00:10:50
			to pick up my sister from school.
		
00:10:50 --> 00:10:50
			Yeah.
		
00:10:50 --> 00:10:51
			So I had to call her name on
		
00:10:51 --> 00:10:53
			a mic outside the second curtain.
		
00:10:53 --> 00:10:53
			Yeah.
		
00:10:53 --> 00:10:55
			So that if she comes out of the
		
00:10:55 --> 00:10:57
			first curtain, nobody outside could get a glimpse
		
00:10:57 --> 00:10:58
			into the school.
		
00:10:59 --> 00:10:59
			Yeah.
		
00:10:59 --> 00:11:00
			Then the second curtain.
		
00:11:00 --> 00:11:01
			So behind her, you only see the first
		
00:11:01 --> 00:11:02
			curtain.
		
00:11:02 --> 00:11:02
			Yeah.
		
00:11:03 --> 00:11:05
			That's the level of like, and then she
		
00:11:05 --> 00:11:06
			had the full on niqab on.
		
00:11:06 --> 00:11:07
			You couldn't even show the eyes.
		
00:11:07 --> 00:11:07
			Yeah.
		
00:11:07 --> 00:11:09
			So I used to recognize her from her
		
00:11:09 --> 00:11:09
			pumas.
		
00:11:11 --> 00:11:14
			Yeah, that's actually still, I mean, curtains aside,
		
00:11:14 --> 00:11:15
			but it was still the same, like similar,
		
00:11:16 --> 00:11:18
			like theme I would have to, I didn't
		
00:11:18 --> 00:11:19
			have like a sister, but like my friends,
		
00:11:19 --> 00:11:22
			they would have to go to the, they
		
00:11:22 --> 00:11:23
			call them the guy at the gate.
		
00:11:24 --> 00:11:24
			Yeah.
		
00:11:24 --> 00:11:24
			Yeah.
		
00:11:25 --> 00:11:26
			The guy at the gate, like, Hey, I'm
		
00:11:26 --> 00:11:28
			looking for like, and he would just say
		
00:11:28 --> 00:11:30
			her name and then the guy would call
		
00:11:30 --> 00:11:31
			out her name and he would just be
		
00:11:31 --> 00:11:32
			waiting there for his sister to come out.
		
00:11:32 --> 00:11:33
			Then he would take her to the car.
		
00:11:34 --> 00:11:34
			Yeah.
		
00:11:34 --> 00:11:35
			So like, even the bad boys did not
		
00:11:35 --> 00:11:37
			really stand a chance to be kind of
		
00:11:37 --> 00:11:39
			quote unquote bad because you'll have to deal
		
00:11:39 --> 00:11:39
			with the brothers.
		
00:11:39 --> 00:11:40
			Best you can do is get a job
		
00:11:40 --> 00:11:40
			as a gatekeeper.
		
00:11:43 --> 00:11:44
			Basically, yeah.
		
00:11:47 --> 00:11:50
			I want to switch subjects a little bit.
		
00:11:50 --> 00:11:54
			Like with you, what was your relationship with
		
00:11:54 --> 00:11:54
			Islam?
		
00:11:55 --> 00:11:56
			Like growing up in Uzbekistan?
		
00:11:57 --> 00:11:57
			Okay.
		
00:11:57 --> 00:12:00
			So I was born in 1993.
		
00:12:00 --> 00:12:03
			We got independence from Soviet union, like a
		
00:12:03 --> 00:12:03
			couple of years back.
		
00:12:03 --> 00:12:04
			Right.
		
00:12:04 --> 00:12:04
			Two, three years.
		
00:12:05 --> 00:12:08
			And that's why my family wasn't really religious
		
00:12:08 --> 00:12:11
			because for over a hundred years, this atheism
		
00:12:11 --> 00:12:14
			propaganda was really taught in schools and everyone.
		
00:12:14 --> 00:12:16
			They were trying to gut Islam for a
		
00:12:16 --> 00:12:16
			century.
		
00:12:16 --> 00:12:17
			Yeah.
		
00:12:17 --> 00:12:19
			So when they first came in 1875, I
		
00:12:19 --> 00:12:21
			guess they started, there was like a mother
		
00:12:21 --> 00:12:21
			of Naha.
		
00:12:22 --> 00:12:25
			And they're like three Emirates, like Bukhara, Heba
		
00:12:25 --> 00:12:25
			and Cocon.
		
00:12:25 --> 00:12:26
			So they took over.
		
00:12:26 --> 00:12:27
			Then they put the Soviet.
		
00:12:27 --> 00:12:28
			There are a lot of big history there.
		
00:12:29 --> 00:12:32
			But over a hundred years, they're like atheism
		
00:12:32 --> 00:12:34
			propaganda to all country, no religion.
		
00:12:35 --> 00:12:38
			And though they didn't fully destroy it, but
		
00:12:38 --> 00:12:40
			whoever tried to fight for religion, they were
		
00:12:40 --> 00:12:42
			killed or they were just put in prisons,
		
00:12:42 --> 00:12:43
			torture and all of that.
		
00:12:44 --> 00:12:47
			And that's why it wasn't a very religious
		
00:12:47 --> 00:12:47
			family.
		
00:12:48 --> 00:12:49
			So the good thing is I went to
		
00:12:49 --> 00:12:51
			a school, like similar school, like English specific.
		
00:12:52 --> 00:12:53
			There was one in the country.
		
00:12:53 --> 00:12:55
			Even the president's grandson went to the same
		
00:12:55 --> 00:12:56
			school as me.
		
00:12:56 --> 00:12:56
			Oh, okay.
		
00:12:56 --> 00:12:57
			Like English.
		
00:12:57 --> 00:12:59
			It was free public, but one of the
		
00:12:59 --> 00:12:59
			top.
		
00:12:59 --> 00:13:01
			That's why I had like a little bit
		
00:13:01 --> 00:13:04
			English background, but there was no religious background
		
00:13:04 --> 00:13:04
			at all.
		
00:13:05 --> 00:13:08
			But the opposite is we were scared of
		
00:13:08 --> 00:13:09
			religion.
		
00:13:09 --> 00:13:11
			I remember when I was either four or
		
00:13:11 --> 00:13:15
			five years old, our neighbor taught me the
		
00:13:15 --> 00:13:16
			seven levels of *.
		
00:13:17 --> 00:13:19
			Like first level, you get to this torture.
		
00:13:19 --> 00:13:20
			Second level, you get this torture.
		
00:13:20 --> 00:13:22
			I'm like, this guy really loved to punish
		
00:13:22 --> 00:13:23
			people.
		
00:13:23 --> 00:13:23
			I was very young.
		
00:13:25 --> 00:13:27
			And whoever, if you try to learn religion,
		
00:13:27 --> 00:13:28
			not me, like I was very young, but
		
00:13:28 --> 00:13:31
			when I was really getting interested, they call
		
00:13:31 --> 00:13:35
			it in Uzbek, it means like oldish.
		
00:13:35 --> 00:13:37
			If you want to study Arabic, you want
		
00:13:37 --> 00:13:38
			to become oldish.
		
00:13:38 --> 00:13:41
			That was the whole Soviet Union propaganda, like
		
00:13:41 --> 00:13:42
			it's old.
		
00:13:42 --> 00:13:44
			And that was their thing, like religion is
		
00:13:44 --> 00:13:44
			old.
		
00:13:44 --> 00:13:45
			Now we got to get to a new
		
00:13:45 --> 00:13:46
			world.
		
00:13:46 --> 00:13:46
			Right.
		
00:13:46 --> 00:13:47
			And backwards.
		
00:13:47 --> 00:13:47
			Yeah.
		
00:13:48 --> 00:13:48
			That same thing.
		
00:13:49 --> 00:13:51
			Even my mom, she still remembers the poems
		
00:13:51 --> 00:13:55
			about Lenin, the Russian leader from that time.
		
00:13:55 --> 00:13:55
			Yeah.
		
00:13:55 --> 00:13:56
			She still remembers that.
		
00:13:56 --> 00:13:58
			Like from very childhood, there was.
		
00:13:58 --> 00:13:59
			So did you guys learn Uzbek and Russian
		
00:13:59 --> 00:14:00
			growing up?
		
00:14:00 --> 00:14:01
			Yeah.
		
00:14:01 --> 00:14:04
			So Uzbek was my home language, native language.
		
00:14:04 --> 00:14:04
			We speak Uzbek.
		
00:14:04 --> 00:14:06
			They didn't touch the culture.
		
00:14:06 --> 00:14:08
			They only touched the religion.
		
00:14:08 --> 00:14:09
			Right.
		
00:14:09 --> 00:14:09
			So we kept the culture.
		
00:14:11 --> 00:14:14
			And almost everybody speaks Russian, which is a
		
00:14:14 --> 00:14:16
			good thing as well, like Russian, Uzbek.
		
00:14:17 --> 00:14:18
			And I went to English school.
		
00:14:18 --> 00:14:21
			So yeah, after getting independent, it started getting
		
00:14:21 --> 00:14:21
			better.
		
00:14:22 --> 00:14:24
			So people started studying actually.
		
00:14:24 --> 00:14:27
			And before, during the Soviet, I heard that
		
00:14:27 --> 00:14:29
			a lot of people went to Europe to
		
00:14:29 --> 00:14:29
			study.
		
00:14:29 --> 00:14:31
			And when they came back, they were arrested
		
00:14:31 --> 00:14:32
			by Soviet Union.
		
00:14:32 --> 00:14:35
			Like we don't need smart people here kind
		
00:14:35 --> 00:14:35
			of thing.
		
00:14:36 --> 00:14:36
			Study what?
		
00:14:37 --> 00:14:37
			Study engineering?
		
00:14:38 --> 00:14:38
			No, worldly stuff.
		
00:14:39 --> 00:14:39
			Wow.
		
00:14:40 --> 00:14:41
			And that's why there are a lot of
		
00:14:41 --> 00:14:42
			movement, like Jadid movement.
		
00:14:42 --> 00:14:44
			They're like, OK, we have the religion, and
		
00:14:44 --> 00:14:46
			now we need the worldly stuff.
		
00:14:47 --> 00:14:49
			When they started teaching and preaching people, not
		
00:14:49 --> 00:14:51
			just religion, this and that, they were all
		
00:14:51 --> 00:14:54
			just either killed or executed.
		
00:14:54 --> 00:14:54
			Wow.
		
00:14:54 --> 00:14:57
			They were really against our development.
		
00:14:57 --> 00:14:58
			They were developing new ideas.
		
00:14:59 --> 00:15:00
			And that's wild.
		
00:15:00 --> 00:15:02
			So that's why when growing up, the religion
		
00:15:02 --> 00:15:04
			wasn't really a part of my life when
		
00:15:04 --> 00:15:05
			I was a kid.
		
00:15:05 --> 00:15:05
			Yeah.
		
00:15:05 --> 00:15:07
			And I actually got scared of it.
		
00:15:07 --> 00:15:08
			Like God really loves to punish.
		
00:15:08 --> 00:15:10
			So by the time you were 18 and
		
00:15:10 --> 00:15:12
			you came here, what was your view of
		
00:15:12 --> 00:15:12
			Islam?
		
00:15:12 --> 00:15:14
			No, before that, I went to a Jumma
		
00:15:14 --> 00:15:17
			Khutbah once when I was 15 or 14.
		
00:15:17 --> 00:15:17
			OK.
		
00:15:18 --> 00:15:19
			That's when it started.
		
00:15:19 --> 00:15:21
			I'm like, ah, no, Allah is not just
		
00:15:21 --> 00:15:22
			someone who loves to punish.
		
00:15:23 --> 00:15:25
			So just from one Khutbah, it got started.
		
00:15:25 --> 00:15:27
			So now I started getting interested in it.
		
00:15:28 --> 00:15:30
			And then after coming to US, it got
		
00:15:30 --> 00:15:32
			even better because here I have more freedom.
		
00:15:33 --> 00:15:35
			I used to hide like without telling my
		
00:15:35 --> 00:15:37
			parents to go to Masjid and I'll study
		
00:15:37 --> 00:15:38
			this and that.
		
00:15:38 --> 00:15:39
			It wasn't too much.
		
00:15:39 --> 00:15:41
			But the US, it gave me more opportunity.
		
00:15:42 --> 00:15:43
			You used to hide from your...
		
00:15:43 --> 00:15:43
			Wait, wait, wait.
		
00:15:43 --> 00:15:44
			Hold on a second.
		
00:15:44 --> 00:15:45
			You used to hide from your parents to
		
00:15:45 --> 00:15:46
			go to the Masjid?
		
00:15:46 --> 00:15:47
			Ah, yeah, I did.
		
00:15:48 --> 00:15:49
			I've been from my college back home.
		
00:15:49 --> 00:15:50
			In it back home as well.
		
00:15:50 --> 00:15:51
			And here too.
		
00:15:51 --> 00:15:52
			But it wasn't illegal to go to the
		
00:15:52 --> 00:15:52
			Masjid.
		
00:15:52 --> 00:15:54
			No, no, no.
		
00:15:54 --> 00:15:54
			They were like...
		
00:15:54 --> 00:15:55
			But it was just the family was uncomfortable
		
00:15:55 --> 00:15:56
			with it.
		
00:15:56 --> 00:15:56
			Kinda, yeah.
		
00:15:56 --> 00:15:57
			Just don't bother.
		
00:15:57 --> 00:15:57
			Study.
		
00:15:58 --> 00:15:59
			My father, I thank him.
		
00:15:59 --> 00:16:00
			He...
		
00:16:00 --> 00:16:03
			This school was very far from our home.
		
00:16:03 --> 00:16:04
			And we were rich.
		
00:16:04 --> 00:16:04
			We were not.
		
00:16:05 --> 00:16:05
			So we were like...
		
00:16:06 --> 00:16:07
			So you invested a lot in your education.
		
00:16:07 --> 00:16:08
			Yes.
		
00:16:08 --> 00:16:10
			So we would study English and he really
		
00:16:10 --> 00:16:11
			invested in our studies.
		
00:16:11 --> 00:16:13
			But he didn't want us to become really
		
00:16:13 --> 00:16:13
			religious.
		
00:16:14 --> 00:16:16
			But, you know, the more you forbid, the
		
00:16:16 --> 00:16:17
			more you want to do it.
		
00:16:17 --> 00:16:20
			And that's actually very common in middle-class
		
00:16:20 --> 00:16:21
			families.
		
00:16:21 --> 00:16:21
			Yeah.
		
00:16:21 --> 00:16:23
			And families that want to see a better
		
00:16:23 --> 00:16:25
			future for their kids in many parts of
		
00:16:25 --> 00:16:28
			the Muslim world, including Pakistan, Bangladesh, other places.
		
00:16:28 --> 00:16:30
			You'll have people that are...
		
00:16:31 --> 00:16:32
			Like they want their kids to become an
		
00:16:32 --> 00:16:34
			engineer, doctor, whatever else.
		
00:16:34 --> 00:16:37
			And then they see these like Mullah types.
		
00:16:37 --> 00:16:39
			These kids that went to the madrasa.
		
00:16:39 --> 00:16:40
			They memorize the Quran.
		
00:16:40 --> 00:16:42
			They're imams of masjids, etc.
		
00:16:42 --> 00:16:42
			And they live...
		
00:16:43 --> 00:16:45
			They don't move on in the world.
		
00:16:45 --> 00:16:46
			This is their world.
		
00:16:46 --> 00:16:48
			And they are terrified that our kid will
		
00:16:48 --> 00:16:50
			end up in this situation.
		
00:16:50 --> 00:16:52
			So even if they touch religion, they're just
		
00:16:52 --> 00:16:56
			going to abandon their education, their career, everything
		
00:16:56 --> 00:16:56
			else.
		
00:16:56 --> 00:16:57
			And they're going to want to just move
		
00:16:57 --> 00:16:58
			to the mountains somewhere.
		
00:16:58 --> 00:16:59
			Etc.
		
00:16:59 --> 00:17:00
			There's this terrible fear.
		
00:17:01 --> 00:17:04
			And that fear is so extreme that even
		
00:17:04 --> 00:17:09
			when many of those people were raised with
		
00:17:09 --> 00:17:10
			those fears, they became parents themselves.
		
00:17:11 --> 00:17:12
			Many of them moved to England, United States,
		
00:17:13 --> 00:17:13
			Australia, etc.
		
00:17:14 --> 00:17:16
			So even within the American landscape, you'll have
		
00:17:16 --> 00:17:20
			people that are raised Muslim, but cautiously not
		
00:17:20 --> 00:17:21
			too Muslim.
		
00:17:21 --> 00:17:23
			Because not too Muslim means you'll become one
		
00:17:23 --> 00:17:25
			of those extreme goat herders, right?
		
00:17:25 --> 00:17:28
			And when their son or daughter goes to
		
00:17:28 --> 00:17:31
			university, runs into an MSA, or hears a
		
00:17:31 --> 00:17:33
			khutbah that inspires them, and the girl decides
		
00:17:33 --> 00:17:35
			he's going to start wearing hijab, or you
		
00:17:35 --> 00:17:36
			start seeing a little bit of facial hair
		
00:17:36 --> 00:17:37
			on the boy.
		
00:17:37 --> 00:17:38
			He's 17, 18 years old.
		
00:17:38 --> 00:17:39
			The parents freak out.
		
00:17:41 --> 00:17:42
			What are you doing?
		
00:17:42 --> 00:17:43
			This is too extreme.
		
00:17:43 --> 00:17:44
			That's not what Allah wants from you.
		
00:17:45 --> 00:17:48
			Because they know that what they think that's
		
00:17:48 --> 00:17:50
			going to turn into is the worst of
		
00:17:50 --> 00:17:52
			what they've seen in their society, right?
		
00:17:52 --> 00:17:57
			Basically, the least respected class of your society
		
00:17:57 --> 00:18:02
			is the religious clerics, and the imams of
		
00:18:02 --> 00:18:03
			masjids or whatever.
		
00:18:05 --> 00:18:07
			In that middle class, many of them, these
		
00:18:07 --> 00:18:08
			people have no respect.
		
00:18:08 --> 00:18:10
			These are the idiots of society that want
		
00:18:10 --> 00:18:11
			to take us back to the Stone Age
		
00:18:11 --> 00:18:12
			or whatever, right?
		
00:18:13 --> 00:18:16
			And so I used to get very angry
		
00:18:16 --> 00:18:17
			about that sentiment.
		
00:18:17 --> 00:18:21
			Over time, I became more, I would say,
		
00:18:21 --> 00:18:24
			empathetic to that sentiment.
		
00:18:24 --> 00:18:27
			And it's more complicated than it first seems.
		
00:18:27 --> 00:18:28
			It says they're against Islam.
		
00:18:29 --> 00:18:31
			Actually, not against Islam per se.
		
00:18:32 --> 00:18:34
			They're against what they think is Islam.
		
00:18:34 --> 00:18:35
			That's correct, 100%.
		
00:18:35 --> 00:18:36
			Right?
		
00:18:36 --> 00:18:38
			They just don't know that that's not a
		
00:18:38 --> 00:18:41
			good representation of what the religion has to
		
00:18:41 --> 00:18:43
			offer, right?
		
00:18:43 --> 00:18:45
			This is a religion of remarkable renaissance around
		
00:18:45 --> 00:18:46
			the world.
		
00:18:47 --> 00:18:49
			This is a book I'm fascinated with right
		
00:18:49 --> 00:18:50
			now.
		
00:18:50 --> 00:18:51
			It was written by an author in Michigan.
		
00:18:53 --> 00:18:55
			His name is Dr. Zulfiqar Ali Shah, and
		
00:18:55 --> 00:18:57
			he wrote Islam and the English Enlightenment.
		
00:18:58 --> 00:18:59
			And his next book is going to be
		
00:18:59 --> 00:19:02
			about the American Enlightenment and its relationship with
		
00:19:02 --> 00:19:02
			Islam.
		
00:19:03 --> 00:19:06
			But man, it's mind-blowing what we were
		
00:19:06 --> 00:19:08
			and what we became, and what some of
		
00:19:08 --> 00:19:10
			these institutions were and what they became.
		
00:19:10 --> 00:19:13
			There has been, it's hard to say, but
		
00:19:13 --> 00:19:16
			there has been an intellectual decline in our
		
00:19:16 --> 00:19:19
			institutions, in our religious institutions.
		
00:19:19 --> 00:19:21
			They used to be far more diverse, far
		
00:19:21 --> 00:19:23
			more open-minded, far more exploring.
		
00:19:24 --> 00:19:25
			They were polymath, multiple sides.
		
00:19:25 --> 00:19:27
			Like, you know, you have a Western university
		
00:19:27 --> 00:19:30
			has a science department, like a physics department,
		
00:19:30 --> 00:19:33
			chem, bio, and they'll have a political science
		
00:19:33 --> 00:19:35
			department, and they'll have an anthropology department, et
		
00:19:35 --> 00:19:36
			cetera, et cetera.
		
00:19:36 --> 00:19:37
			They have these departments.
		
00:19:38 --> 00:19:40
			The Muslim mind was like that.
		
00:19:40 --> 00:19:43
			Like, we had these multiple departments engaging with
		
00:19:43 --> 00:19:46
			each other, all within the Islamic studies, right?
		
00:19:47 --> 00:19:48
			And then we just kind of said, no,
		
00:19:48 --> 00:19:49
			everything else is duniya.
		
00:19:50 --> 00:19:51
			And we just want to study deen.
		
00:19:52 --> 00:19:55
			And this is actually, in my mind, I'll
		
00:19:55 --> 00:19:57
			come out and say, that is, to me,
		
00:19:57 --> 00:19:58
			the definition of secularism.
		
00:19:59 --> 00:20:01
			Secularism is when you separate religion from all
		
00:20:01 --> 00:20:02
			else, right?
		
00:20:03 --> 00:20:05
			Well, they say we separate all else from
		
00:20:05 --> 00:20:05
			religion.
		
00:20:06 --> 00:20:08
			Well, you're doing the exact same thing from
		
00:20:08 --> 00:20:08
			the other side.
		
00:20:08 --> 00:20:11
			I'm going to separate religion from all else.
		
00:20:11 --> 00:20:14
			That's just as secular, right?
		
00:20:14 --> 00:20:18
			So what they find problematic is actually what,
		
00:20:18 --> 00:20:21
			in some sense, what any reasonable person would
		
00:20:21 --> 00:20:24
			also find problematic, on top of, of course,
		
00:20:24 --> 00:20:26
			the propaganda is that the content of the
		
00:20:26 --> 00:20:29
			religion itself is poisonous and all that stuff,
		
00:20:29 --> 00:20:29
			right?
		
00:20:29 --> 00:20:33
			But on a social level, this is actually
		
00:20:33 --> 00:20:35
			a tough reality to contend with.
		
00:20:35 --> 00:20:35
			Yeah.
		
00:20:35 --> 00:20:37
			And like, since I actually found like somewhat
		
00:20:37 --> 00:20:40
			of an empathetic approach to that sentiment, did
		
00:20:40 --> 00:20:41
			you find like a way to actually like
		
00:20:41 --> 00:20:42
			navigate it in a way?
		
00:20:43 --> 00:20:43
			Yeah, yeah.
		
00:20:43 --> 00:20:45
			So I, because it's firsthand, right?
		
00:20:45 --> 00:20:46
			My parents had that sentiment.
		
00:20:47 --> 00:20:49
			And my parents thought that I'm just going
		
00:20:49 --> 00:20:53
			to abandon my education and leave everything behind.
		
00:20:53 --> 00:20:54
			That's when you found the MSA kind of
		
00:20:54 --> 00:20:54
			thing?
		
00:20:55 --> 00:20:56
			That's when I first found the MSA.
		
00:20:56 --> 00:20:58
			That's when I first started seeing some sprinkles
		
00:20:58 --> 00:21:00
			of hairs that I could only go three
		
00:21:00 --> 00:21:02
			twigs and I was growing them.
		
00:21:02 --> 00:21:02
			Yeah.
		
00:21:05 --> 00:21:07
			For the longest time, I had long sideburns
		
00:21:07 --> 00:21:07
			and nothing else.
		
00:21:09 --> 00:21:13
			I look like a bad replica of like
		
00:21:13 --> 00:21:14
			Pulp Fiction or something.
		
00:21:16 --> 00:21:18
			That was my MSA look.
		
00:21:18 --> 00:21:22
			But anyway, what I figured out very quickly
		
00:21:22 --> 00:21:29
			is that if you're excelling professionally while holding
		
00:21:29 --> 00:21:33
			on to your religion, that creates the biggest
		
00:21:33 --> 00:21:34
			confusion of their lives.
		
00:21:35 --> 00:21:36
			They don't know how to deal with it.
		
00:21:36 --> 00:21:38
			Because their whole problem was the more religious
		
00:21:38 --> 00:21:42
			you become, the less successful you'll be, right?
		
00:21:42 --> 00:21:44
			So now if you're excelling in your studies
		
00:21:44 --> 00:21:47
			and you're excelling in your career and you're
		
00:21:47 --> 00:21:50
			excelling at like you're leaving other people behind
		
00:21:50 --> 00:21:52
			in every one of these boxes.
		
00:21:53 --> 00:21:55
			And yet you're holding on to your religion.
		
00:21:56 --> 00:21:59
			Then they start thinking either he doesn't understand
		
00:21:59 --> 00:22:01
			the religion or I didn't understand the religion.
		
00:22:02 --> 00:22:03
			Somebody's confused.
		
00:22:04 --> 00:22:04
			That's right.
		
00:22:04 --> 00:22:04
			Right?
		
00:22:05 --> 00:22:07
			So then the next thing they'll do to
		
00:22:07 --> 00:22:09
			cope is they'll try to attack the religion.
		
00:22:09 --> 00:22:11
			Because they're trying to figure out where you
		
00:22:11 --> 00:22:12
			stand.
		
00:22:12 --> 00:22:13
			They can't make sense of it.
		
00:22:14 --> 00:22:16
			And that's when you have an opportunity to
		
00:22:16 --> 00:22:19
			intelligently present the religion for the first time
		
00:22:19 --> 00:22:20
			instead of being defensive.
		
00:22:21 --> 00:22:22
			And what that does is it does wonders.
		
00:22:23 --> 00:22:28
			I think a remarkable renaissance and reform will
		
00:22:28 --> 00:22:30
			happen in the Muslim world when middle class
		
00:22:30 --> 00:22:35
			and beyond professionals, business people, students, etc.
		
00:22:36 --> 00:22:42
			They start embodying Islamic principles while living, while
		
00:22:42 --> 00:22:45
			succeeding as members, contributing members of society.
		
00:22:46 --> 00:22:46
			Right?
		
00:22:46 --> 00:22:50
			When those two things start happening together, it's
		
00:22:50 --> 00:22:51
			an unbeatable force.
		
00:22:51 --> 00:22:53
			In fact, then people will say these people
		
00:22:53 --> 00:22:54
			are more successful, more principled.
		
00:22:55 --> 00:22:56
			They're better to do business with.
		
00:22:56 --> 00:22:57
			They're the better hire.
		
00:22:57 --> 00:22:58
			They're the better students.
		
00:22:59 --> 00:23:00
			Because they're more principled.
		
00:23:01 --> 00:23:03
			I've never had a college student who, you
		
00:23:03 --> 00:23:05
			know, hurt someone or haze someone or got
		
00:23:05 --> 00:23:07
			drunk and got in an accident or whatever
		
00:23:07 --> 00:23:09
			because they're Muslim or whatever.
		
00:23:09 --> 00:23:09
			Right?
		
00:23:09 --> 00:23:12
			That it'll set us in a different standard.
		
00:23:13 --> 00:23:14
			That's what I think.
		
00:23:14 --> 00:23:15
			But anyway, so go ahead and tell me.
		
00:23:15 --> 00:23:17
			So you were hiding from your parents going
		
00:23:17 --> 00:23:18
			to the masjid, which is cool.
		
00:23:18 --> 00:23:20
			I've hidden from my parents but not gone
		
00:23:20 --> 00:23:21
			to the masjid.
		
00:23:22 --> 00:23:23
			Yeah, so.
		
00:23:24 --> 00:23:25
			And I listened to a lot of your
		
00:23:25 --> 00:23:26
			lectures as well.
		
00:23:26 --> 00:23:28
			Like family wise, like how to deal and
		
00:23:28 --> 00:23:29
			all.
		
00:23:29 --> 00:23:29
			Really?
		
00:23:30 --> 00:23:31
			It wasn't that bad.
		
00:23:31 --> 00:23:32
			So I don't want to give the wrong
		
00:23:32 --> 00:23:33
			picture of my family.
		
00:23:33 --> 00:23:35
			But still, they were like, don't get too
		
00:23:35 --> 00:23:36
			much into religion at all.
		
00:23:37 --> 00:23:37
			Yeah.
		
00:23:38 --> 00:23:39
			But I was doing a lot of stuff
		
00:23:39 --> 00:23:40
			without telling them.
		
00:23:42 --> 00:23:44
			Did you get married without telling them?
		
00:23:44 --> 00:23:46
			No, not yet.
		
00:23:47 --> 00:23:51
			The main part, just like I mentioned right
		
00:23:51 --> 00:23:51
			now.
		
00:23:51 --> 00:23:53
			So I started kind of doing well in
		
00:23:53 --> 00:23:55
			my studies and in my job as well.
		
00:23:55 --> 00:23:57
			So I got hired in a company.
		
00:23:57 --> 00:23:59
			So I started doing well as a, I'm
		
00:23:59 --> 00:24:00
			a software engineer right now.
		
00:24:00 --> 00:24:02
			So I started like years back.
		
00:24:02 --> 00:24:04
			So that's what draw the line.
		
00:24:05 --> 00:24:08
			Like you can be a successful person while
		
00:24:08 --> 00:24:09
			holding on to a religion.
		
00:24:09 --> 00:24:10
			And that's really proved the point.
		
00:24:11 --> 00:24:12
			That's why when you say it, I'm like,
		
00:24:12 --> 00:24:13
			that's 100% correct.
		
00:24:13 --> 00:24:13
			Yeah.
		
00:24:14 --> 00:24:17
			Has your relationship, has your family's relationship with
		
00:24:17 --> 00:24:18
			Islam changed at all?
		
00:24:18 --> 00:24:20
			It did, but not because of me.
		
00:24:20 --> 00:24:22
			But they also found like, they were not
		
00:24:22 --> 00:24:24
			super totally against it.
		
00:24:24 --> 00:24:25
			They were still Muslims.
		
00:24:25 --> 00:24:25
			It was just cautious.
		
00:24:26 --> 00:24:26
			Yeah.
		
00:24:27 --> 00:24:29
			So now later on when things change, but
		
00:24:29 --> 00:24:30
			now everyone's happy.
		
00:24:30 --> 00:24:30
			Alhamdulillah.
		
00:24:30 --> 00:24:31
			Like we're all good.
		
00:24:31 --> 00:24:31
			So.
		
00:24:32 --> 00:24:33
			Alhamdulillah.
		
00:24:34 --> 00:24:34
			That's pretty amazing.
		
00:24:35 --> 00:24:35
			What about yourself?
		
00:24:35 --> 00:24:38
			What's your relationship with this religion growing up?
		
00:24:39 --> 00:24:40
			No, so growing up, actually, it's all on
		
00:24:40 --> 00:24:40
			you.
		
00:24:41 --> 00:24:43
			It's, it's, it's, yeah.
		
00:24:43 --> 00:24:44
			I mean, yeah, we, there was a lot
		
00:24:44 --> 00:24:45
			of studies.
		
00:24:45 --> 00:24:45
			Yeah.
		
00:24:45 --> 00:24:48
			Like we studied, like we studied like physics,
		
00:24:48 --> 00:24:50
			chemistry, biology, all of it.
		
00:24:50 --> 00:24:51
			We studied all of it.
		
00:24:51 --> 00:24:53
			But like in, in, in, in our schools,
		
00:24:53 --> 00:24:55
			there was like, we had a separate class
		
00:24:55 --> 00:24:59
			for fiqh and there's hadith, there's tafsir, there's
		
00:24:59 --> 00:25:04
			tajweed, and there's Qur'an, tawheed, and there's
		
00:25:04 --> 00:25:05
			like hafidh Qur'an too.
		
00:25:05 --> 00:25:05
			Wow.
		
00:25:06 --> 00:25:07
			That's a lot of classes.
		
00:25:07 --> 00:25:09
			Oh yeah, no, we had like 17 subjects.
		
00:25:09 --> 00:25:10
			Like we didn't get to choose.
		
00:25:10 --> 00:25:12
			We had like 16, 17 subjects that we
		
00:25:12 --> 00:25:14
			had to take and we'd like get tested
		
00:25:14 --> 00:25:15
			on all of them.
		
00:25:15 --> 00:25:17
			But then, yeah.
		
00:25:17 --> 00:25:19
			And this is basically kind of just like
		
00:25:19 --> 00:25:20
			the way of life.
		
00:25:20 --> 00:25:22
			It's kind of like being, this is just
		
00:25:22 --> 00:25:23
			how everybody lives.
		
00:25:23 --> 00:25:24
			This is how everybody thought.
		
00:25:24 --> 00:25:26
			And then that's when like I came to
		
00:25:26 --> 00:25:28
			the United States with that thought really.
		
00:25:28 --> 00:25:30
			And then come to like the culture shock
		
00:25:30 --> 00:25:31
			was real.
		
00:25:31 --> 00:25:34
			The culture shock was really, really, there was
		
00:25:34 --> 00:25:35
			a lot of adjustment to make.
		
00:25:36 --> 00:25:39
			And then there was one particular year, I
		
00:25:39 --> 00:25:43
			think it was like 2013, I was taking,
		
00:25:43 --> 00:25:45
			so I didn't have like any Muslim friends.
		
00:25:46 --> 00:25:47
			Like didn't have any Muslim friends.
		
00:25:47 --> 00:25:49
			All my friends were basically either atheists or
		
00:25:49 --> 00:25:50
			Christian.
		
00:25:51 --> 00:25:54
			And then I was in one semester in
		
00:25:54 --> 00:25:54
			school.
		
00:25:54 --> 00:25:57
			I was taking world religions and I was
		
00:25:57 --> 00:25:57
			taking philosophy.
		
00:25:58 --> 00:26:01
			And one of my closest friends, he's actually
		
00:26:01 --> 00:26:02
			one of my closer friends to this day,
		
00:26:02 --> 00:26:03
			he was Christian.
		
00:26:03 --> 00:26:04
			And him and I would engage in dialogues
		
00:26:04 --> 00:26:06
			about religion, but not in a matter of
		
00:26:06 --> 00:26:07
			which I'm trying to convince you or you're
		
00:26:07 --> 00:26:08
			trying to convince me.
		
00:26:08 --> 00:26:08
			Right.
		
00:26:08 --> 00:26:10
			It's more of like an open discussion of
		
00:26:10 --> 00:26:12
			what different religions thought.
		
00:26:12 --> 00:26:13
			We'd just open up a thought and be
		
00:26:13 --> 00:26:15
			like, oh, in Islam we think this, and
		
00:26:15 --> 00:26:16
			in Christianity we think that.
		
00:26:19 --> 00:26:21
			And during that semester, when I was taking
		
00:26:21 --> 00:26:23
			these classes and I was getting exposed to
		
00:26:23 --> 00:26:26
			all this, specifically in philosophy, you're forced to
		
00:26:26 --> 00:26:28
			think in ways that you're never really taught
		
00:26:28 --> 00:26:29
			to think.
		
00:26:29 --> 00:26:29
			Correct.
		
00:26:29 --> 00:26:30
			Back home.
		
00:26:31 --> 00:26:32
			Yeah, you're supposed to answer questions you never
		
00:26:32 --> 00:26:32
			even thought of.
		
00:26:32 --> 00:26:33
			Exactly.
		
00:26:33 --> 00:26:35
			Okay, how do you prove there's existence of
		
00:26:35 --> 00:26:35
			God?
		
00:26:36 --> 00:26:37
			And in my mind, I'm like, what do
		
00:26:37 --> 00:26:39
			you mean there's, like how can the world
		
00:26:39 --> 00:26:40
			exist without God?
		
00:26:40 --> 00:26:42
			Like actually giving me, so having to actually
		
00:26:42 --> 00:26:45
			write a paper on the existence of God,
		
00:26:45 --> 00:26:47
			I was kind of like mind struck, like
		
00:26:47 --> 00:26:48
			what do I even write?
		
00:26:48 --> 00:26:50
			My paper was blank for about a week.
		
00:26:50 --> 00:26:50
			I was like, I didn't even know what
		
00:26:50 --> 00:26:51
			to write.
		
00:26:52 --> 00:26:54
			Yeah, so it was just a lot of
		
00:26:54 --> 00:26:58
			these thoughts that were introduced, they're very new
		
00:26:58 --> 00:26:58
			to me.
		
00:26:58 --> 00:27:00
			I did not know how to navigate them
		
00:27:00 --> 00:27:01
			at all.
		
00:27:01 --> 00:27:03
			And because I didn't know these answers, I
		
00:27:03 --> 00:27:05
			started having some doubts.
		
00:27:05 --> 00:27:06
			And I was like, okay, I need to
		
00:27:06 --> 00:27:07
			know, like why is it?
		
00:27:08 --> 00:27:10
			Like, especially in world religions, everybody, like there
		
00:27:10 --> 00:27:13
			were these religions from these Native American religions.
		
00:27:13 --> 00:27:17
			There's Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, Confucius, all of
		
00:27:17 --> 00:27:18
			them.
		
00:27:18 --> 00:27:21
			And they were like, actually a good mixture
		
00:27:21 --> 00:27:23
			in my classroom where people were...
		
00:27:24 --> 00:27:24
			Representing different...
		
00:27:24 --> 00:27:26
			Yeah, representing different religions.
		
00:27:26 --> 00:27:29
			And I would look around, like everyone had
		
00:27:29 --> 00:27:31
			that unwavering conviction that...
		
00:27:32 --> 00:27:34
			Yeah, yeah, we're right.
		
00:27:34 --> 00:27:37
			But then couple that with that philosophy class.
		
00:27:37 --> 00:27:38
			I'm like, okay, if I was to actually
		
00:27:38 --> 00:27:42
			like engage in a conversation with one, especially
		
00:27:42 --> 00:27:45
			like someone like my Christian friends I was
		
00:27:45 --> 00:27:46
			talking to, I came to realize that they
		
00:27:46 --> 00:27:49
			were taught Christianity the exact same way I
		
00:27:49 --> 00:27:50
			was taught Islam.
		
00:27:51 --> 00:27:52
			Heritage.
		
00:27:52 --> 00:27:52
			Exactly.
		
00:27:53 --> 00:27:54
			So I was like, okay, if I was
		
00:27:54 --> 00:27:56
			to come up with a reason for that,
		
00:27:56 --> 00:27:57
			I had no idea.
		
00:27:57 --> 00:27:59
			And I remember to this day, my friend
		
00:27:59 --> 00:28:01
			asked me that one question that kind of...
		
00:28:01 --> 00:28:02
			My parents actually never...
		
00:28:02 --> 00:28:03
			My family doesn't know about what I'm talking
		
00:28:03 --> 00:28:04
			about right now.
		
00:28:05 --> 00:28:06
			So it's gonna be a shock to them,
		
00:28:06 --> 00:28:07
			nobody actually knew.
		
00:28:07 --> 00:28:09
			But at this point, one of my friends
		
00:28:09 --> 00:28:10
			asked me one question that kind of just
		
00:28:10 --> 00:28:11
			shattered my faith.
		
00:28:12 --> 00:28:14
			And he was like, deep down, you know
		
00:28:14 --> 00:28:16
			who you are better than like anyone.
		
00:28:16 --> 00:28:17
			Like deep down, when you're on your own,
		
00:28:17 --> 00:28:19
			you're alone in your thoughts, you know who
		
00:28:19 --> 00:28:19
			you are.
		
00:28:20 --> 00:28:23
			If you had grown up in a Christian
		
00:28:23 --> 00:28:25
			family or a Hindu family or a Buddhist
		
00:28:25 --> 00:28:27
			family, would you have left it for Islam?
		
00:28:27 --> 00:28:30
			Would you have left your entire circle, your
		
00:28:30 --> 00:28:32
			entire family, your entire thought, everything that you
		
00:28:32 --> 00:28:34
			grew up with for Islam?
		
00:28:34 --> 00:28:36
			And thinking about that, I'm like, no.
		
00:28:36 --> 00:28:40
			If I was to like change everything, if
		
00:28:40 --> 00:28:41
			I was to actually imagine the thought that
		
00:28:41 --> 00:28:44
			I grew up in the same way that
		
00:28:44 --> 00:28:45
			they grew up in a Christian, like, I
		
00:28:45 --> 00:28:47
			don't know if I know enough about Islam
		
00:28:47 --> 00:28:49
			for me to say, I would actually make
		
00:28:49 --> 00:28:50
			the move.
		
00:28:50 --> 00:28:51
			So that's when I was like, okay, I
		
00:28:51 --> 00:28:52
			need to...
		
00:28:53 --> 00:28:54
			I need to start actually...
		
00:28:54 --> 00:28:54
			Why do you believe what I believe?
		
00:28:54 --> 00:28:55
			Exactly.
		
00:28:55 --> 00:28:57
			I need to actually answer the why behind
		
00:28:57 --> 00:28:57
			everything that I'm doing.
		
00:28:59 --> 00:29:02
			And that kind of like bled into 2014.
		
00:29:02 --> 00:29:04
			There was a period of months that where
		
00:29:04 --> 00:29:06
			I did absolutely nothing but research Islam, research
		
00:29:06 --> 00:29:08
			religions and research everything.
		
00:29:09 --> 00:29:11
			And well, to this day, I don't remember
		
00:29:11 --> 00:29:13
			exactly how.
		
00:29:13 --> 00:29:15
			I have no recollection of that memory, but
		
00:29:15 --> 00:29:16
			I was working on a project.
		
00:29:16 --> 00:29:17
			It was like a final project that I
		
00:29:17 --> 00:29:18
			had.
		
00:29:19 --> 00:29:21
			And I took a lot of notes on
		
00:29:21 --> 00:29:22
			my phone.
		
00:29:23 --> 00:29:26
			During classes, during conversations with professors, I found
		
00:29:26 --> 00:29:27
			it easy to pick up my phone and
		
00:29:27 --> 00:29:28
			put in some notes.
		
00:29:28 --> 00:29:29
			I was working on that project.
		
00:29:30 --> 00:29:31
			And I was like, yeah, I remember taking
		
00:29:31 --> 00:29:33
			notes about this project that would help me.
		
00:29:33 --> 00:29:34
			So I opened up my phone.
		
00:29:34 --> 00:29:35
			I was scrolling through it.
		
00:29:35 --> 00:29:39
			One of the notes had no subject, had
		
00:29:39 --> 00:29:41
			no context, had nothing.
		
00:29:41 --> 00:29:43
			It just had divine speech.
		
00:29:45 --> 00:29:48
			And I was like, what's divine speech?
		
00:29:48 --> 00:29:49
			Like, I don't know.
		
00:29:49 --> 00:29:51
			I have no recollection of how that got
		
00:29:51 --> 00:29:51
			to my phone.
		
00:29:52 --> 00:29:54
			To this day, I have no idea how
		
00:29:54 --> 00:29:55
			that got to my phone.
		
00:29:56 --> 00:29:58
			And I just Googled divine speech.
		
00:29:58 --> 00:30:00
			And there was like these two videos on
		
00:30:00 --> 00:30:00
			YouTube.
		
00:30:01 --> 00:30:03
			And I think it was around like 8
		
00:30:03 --> 00:30:06
			p.m. The project was due at midnight,
		
00:30:06 --> 00:30:10
			like at midnight, 11.59. And I started
		
00:30:10 --> 00:30:11
			watching these two videos.
		
00:30:12 --> 00:30:15
			And that bled into just watching Islamic videos.
		
00:30:15 --> 00:30:17
			After these two videos, till like 4 a
		
00:30:17 --> 00:30:18
			.m. in the morning, it blew up the
		
00:30:18 --> 00:30:19
			project.
		
00:30:19 --> 00:30:19
			Blew up everything.
		
00:30:19 --> 00:30:21
			I was just listening to lectures.
		
00:30:21 --> 00:30:24
			And that's when I delved very head down
		
00:30:24 --> 00:30:26
			deep into just researching Islam.
		
00:30:27 --> 00:30:29
			That was the tipping point that made me
		
00:30:29 --> 00:30:31
			feel like, OK, now I have my why.
		
00:30:31 --> 00:30:33
			Now I believe the Qur'an is actually
		
00:30:33 --> 00:30:34
			the word of Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala.
		
00:30:35 --> 00:30:36
			If I was actually to think about how
		
00:30:36 --> 00:30:39
			the Qur'an is actually a miracle, now
		
00:30:39 --> 00:30:39
			I have my answers.
		
00:30:40 --> 00:30:43
			And that's actually how it turned out.
		
00:30:43 --> 00:30:45
			And actually, that kind of, that period of
		
00:30:45 --> 00:30:46
			time, it was actually funny because like I
		
00:30:46 --> 00:30:48
			was really like delving deep into it.
		
00:30:48 --> 00:30:50
			But in my field, like my parents were
		
00:30:50 --> 00:30:51
			very supportive of the fact.
		
00:30:51 --> 00:30:51
			When I would come and tell them like,
		
00:30:51 --> 00:30:52
			hey, listen to this.
		
00:30:52 --> 00:30:53
			This is what I found out.
		
00:30:53 --> 00:30:54
			This is what I learned.
		
00:30:54 --> 00:30:56
			But my brothers, however, where that was like
		
00:30:56 --> 00:30:59
			the subject of making fun of.
		
00:30:59 --> 00:31:01
			So like they'd be playing like PlayStation or
		
00:31:01 --> 00:31:02
			FIFA or something.
		
00:31:02 --> 00:31:03
			And they were like, hey, Ana, come join
		
00:31:03 --> 00:31:04
			us.
		
00:31:04 --> 00:31:05
			And I'd be like listening to a lecture.
		
00:31:05 --> 00:31:07
			I'm like, we'll play a lecture, Islamic lecture
		
00:31:07 --> 00:31:08
			for you here if you just join us.
		
00:31:08 --> 00:31:09
			So kind of thing.
		
00:31:09 --> 00:31:11
			They were just kind of, that's, this is
		
00:31:11 --> 00:31:13
			how it kind of like was for a
		
00:31:13 --> 00:31:13
			long period of time.
		
00:31:14 --> 00:31:16
			But then right now, alhamdulillah, like every kind
		
00:31:16 --> 00:31:18
			of like shifted and started listening to the
		
00:31:18 --> 00:31:19
			same thing too.
		
00:31:19 --> 00:31:22
			So, you know, I'm wondering.
		
00:31:24 --> 00:31:25
			Because I think the one on YouTube is
		
00:31:25 --> 00:31:28
			from me when I spoke at City College.
		
00:31:28 --> 00:31:30
			I think it's very old.
		
00:31:30 --> 00:31:31
			It was very, very old.
		
00:31:31 --> 00:31:34
			It was kind of very dark themed, like
		
00:31:34 --> 00:31:34
			very.
		
00:31:34 --> 00:31:35
			City College in New York.
		
00:31:35 --> 00:31:36
			Yeah.
		
00:31:37 --> 00:31:39
			And that was the first time I spoke
		
00:31:39 --> 00:31:40
			about divine speech.
		
00:31:40 --> 00:31:40
			Yeah.
		
00:31:41 --> 00:31:42
			I had no idea who you were.
		
00:31:42 --> 00:31:43
			Honestly, I just.
		
00:31:43 --> 00:31:44
			I'm not sure if I knew who I
		
00:31:44 --> 00:31:44
			was.
		
00:31:48 --> 00:31:50
			But you know, my thoughts on that subject
		
00:31:50 --> 00:31:51
			is interesting.
		
00:31:51 --> 00:31:53
			It was talking to a couple of young
		
00:31:53 --> 00:31:55
			men last week.
		
00:31:55 --> 00:31:56
			They were visiting here.
		
00:31:56 --> 00:31:58
			They've all done their PhDs in Islamic studies.
		
00:31:58 --> 00:31:59
			Out of Harvard.
		
00:32:00 --> 00:32:01
			Brilliant young guys.
		
00:32:01 --> 00:32:03
			And they're all heading their own ways.
		
00:32:03 --> 00:32:04
			And they stopped by Dallas to meet with
		
00:32:04 --> 00:32:05
			some people.
		
00:32:05 --> 00:32:06
			And they wanted to meet with me.
		
00:32:06 --> 00:32:06
			So we had dinner.
		
00:32:07 --> 00:32:09
			We talked and we were talking about divine
		
00:32:09 --> 00:32:10
			speech.
		
00:32:11 --> 00:32:13
			And one of the things that I mentioned
		
00:32:13 --> 00:32:15
			at the time was that when I first
		
00:32:15 --> 00:32:19
			started studying the Quran, my attitude was, oh,
		
00:32:19 --> 00:32:20
			here's what makes it divine.
		
00:32:22 --> 00:32:26
			Then I learned to humble myself over time
		
00:32:26 --> 00:32:27
			to that statement.
		
00:32:28 --> 00:32:31
			And that I'll give you an analogy.
		
00:32:31 --> 00:32:33
			If I dove into the ocean and I
		
00:32:33 --> 00:32:36
			pulled out a pearl, I wouldn't say I
		
00:32:36 --> 00:32:37
			have found the ocean's treasure.
		
00:32:39 --> 00:32:43
			I would say I found a treasure that
		
00:32:43 --> 00:32:44
			I find priceless.
		
00:32:46 --> 00:32:49
			But I cannot speak on behalf of the
		
00:32:49 --> 00:32:52
			entire ocean when I'm holding this one pearl.
		
00:32:53 --> 00:32:55
			But I can say that this is pretty
		
00:32:55 --> 00:32:56
			valuable to me, right?
		
00:32:56 --> 00:32:57
			Yeah.
		
00:32:57 --> 00:32:59
			And that's what divine speech became to me.
		
00:33:00 --> 00:33:04
			Every time I discover this, to me, this
		
00:33:04 --> 00:33:04
			is miraculous.
		
00:33:05 --> 00:33:07
			I can't speak for anyone else.
		
00:33:07 --> 00:33:08
			Maybe they don't see the pearl from the
		
00:33:08 --> 00:33:09
			same angle that I do.
		
00:33:10 --> 00:33:12
			Maybe they see it from a distance, like
		
00:33:12 --> 00:33:12
			it's just holding a rock.
		
00:33:13 --> 00:33:16
			Is that what led to the evolve, how
		
00:33:16 --> 00:33:19
			divine speech evolved from these two lectures into
		
00:33:19 --> 00:33:21
			these 13 lectures up on Bain?
		
00:33:21 --> 00:33:22
			And then a book.
		
00:33:23 --> 00:33:25
			And even those 13 lectures were a summary.
		
00:33:25 --> 00:33:26
			They were a 39-page version.
		
00:33:27 --> 00:33:29
			I've just list of what used to be
		
00:33:29 --> 00:33:31
			a 65-page document.
		
00:33:31 --> 00:33:33
			So I only taught two-thirds of it
		
00:33:33 --> 00:33:33
			ever.
		
00:33:35 --> 00:33:39
			And then Heavenly Order was a byproduct of
		
00:33:39 --> 00:33:39
			that.
		
00:33:39 --> 00:33:41
			I did on the sequence of the Quran.
		
00:33:43 --> 00:33:46
			And now that I'm actually full-time studying
		
00:33:46 --> 00:33:47
			Quran, like I'm just, that's what I'm doing
		
00:33:47 --> 00:33:48
			with my life.
		
00:33:50 --> 00:33:53
			Now I see reasons for the Quran being
		
00:33:53 --> 00:33:56
			divine in a completely new way.
		
00:33:56 --> 00:33:58
			That I didn't see those years ago.
		
00:34:00 --> 00:34:04
			It's completely enhanced, or it continues to evolve
		
00:34:04 --> 00:34:08
			my view, which makes me humble myself to
		
00:34:08 --> 00:34:11
			the Quran every single month, literally every month.
		
00:34:11 --> 00:34:13
			You were at one of the Quran weeks,
		
00:34:13 --> 00:34:13
			weren't you?
		
00:34:13 --> 00:34:14
			In Minneapolis, yeah.
		
00:34:15 --> 00:34:16
			Surat Al-Qamar.
		
00:34:17 --> 00:34:19
			Surat Al-Hadeed in Minneapolis.
		
00:34:20 --> 00:34:20
			You were in Minneapolis?
		
00:34:20 --> 00:34:21
			Yes.
		
00:34:22 --> 00:34:23
			Weren't you in Florida too?
		
00:34:24 --> 00:34:25
			I was not in Florida, no.
		
00:34:25 --> 00:34:26
			You were in Minneapolis?
		
00:34:26 --> 00:34:27
			Minneapolis, yeah.
		
00:34:28 --> 00:34:29
			I'm so bad.
		
00:34:30 --> 00:34:32
			No, I was actually just joking.
		
00:34:33 --> 00:34:35
			I would be very surprised given how many
		
00:34:35 --> 00:34:37
			people you meet worldwide, if you had actually
		
00:34:37 --> 00:34:37
			remembered, actually.
		
00:34:38 --> 00:34:39
			There was one time I actually ran into
		
00:34:39 --> 00:34:40
			you in...
		
00:34:41 --> 00:34:41
			DFW.
		
00:34:42 --> 00:34:42
			In where?
		
00:34:43 --> 00:34:43
			The airport.
		
00:34:43 --> 00:34:44
			Yeah, in the airport.
		
00:34:44 --> 00:34:45
			Exactly, yeah.
		
00:34:45 --> 00:34:46
			That's when I like ran into you at
		
00:34:46 --> 00:34:46
			the airport.
		
00:34:46 --> 00:34:47
			I'm like, oh wow, yeah.
		
00:34:47 --> 00:34:49
			When you kind of sort of recognize me,
		
00:34:49 --> 00:34:51
			I'm like, wow, what a memory, Mashallah.
		
00:34:52 --> 00:34:52
			It's like you're recognized.
		
00:34:52 --> 00:34:55
			I remember you were doing like combat sports.
		
00:34:56 --> 00:34:56
			Yeah, yeah.
		
00:34:56 --> 00:34:57
			Yes.
		
00:34:57 --> 00:34:57
			Yeah.
		
00:34:59 --> 00:35:00
			I'm not that bad.
		
00:35:00 --> 00:35:01
			I'm not entirely senile yet.
		
00:35:01 --> 00:35:02
			Yeah, yeah.
		
00:35:03 --> 00:35:04
			That's actually one of the things that actually
		
00:35:04 --> 00:35:06
			my parents were very strict about growing up
		
00:35:06 --> 00:35:10
			is that they were very strict on religion,
		
00:35:11 --> 00:35:12
			studies and martial arts.
		
00:35:13 --> 00:35:15
			So my brothers and I, if we don't
		
00:35:15 --> 00:35:16
			do our studies or if we don't do
		
00:35:16 --> 00:35:18
			our prayers or if we don't do our
		
00:35:18 --> 00:35:19
			martial arts, then like we don't get to
		
00:35:19 --> 00:35:21
			go out and play or we don't get
		
00:35:21 --> 00:35:22
			to see our friends.
		
00:35:22 --> 00:35:22
			Wow.
		
00:35:23 --> 00:35:24
			We don't get to do like what fun
		
00:35:24 --> 00:35:24
			things.
		
00:35:24 --> 00:35:26
			Some cool parenting policy.
		
00:35:28 --> 00:35:28
			Yeah.
		
00:35:28 --> 00:35:30
			What kind of martial arts do you do?
		
00:35:30 --> 00:35:35
			I did taekwondo for almost 10 years and
		
00:35:35 --> 00:35:39
			now I do more like Brazilian jiu-jitsu,
		
00:35:40 --> 00:35:42
			like grappling, martial arts.
		
00:35:43 --> 00:35:43
			Very cool.
		
00:35:43 --> 00:35:44
			Yeah.
		
00:35:44 --> 00:35:44
			Very cool.
		
00:35:46 --> 00:35:48
			So divine speech for you.
		
00:35:48 --> 00:35:49
			Yeah, divine speech.
		
00:35:49 --> 00:35:51
			And you were talking about those videos you
		
00:35:51 --> 00:35:53
			used to watch in Uzbekistan that were about
		
00:35:53 --> 00:35:54
			parenting.
		
00:35:55 --> 00:35:56
			Did you have an allergy or something?
		
00:35:57 --> 00:35:58
			No, I got cold like a week ago.
		
00:35:59 --> 00:36:00
			So I was good.
		
00:36:00 --> 00:36:02
			I didn't cough the whole morning.
		
00:36:02 --> 00:36:03
			Just now, I just started.
		
00:36:03 --> 00:36:05
			I was barely holding it back, but I
		
00:36:05 --> 00:36:05
			couldn't.
		
00:36:06 --> 00:36:07
			It's okay, cough away, it's okay.
		
00:36:08 --> 00:36:09
			Don't hold back.
		
00:36:11 --> 00:36:15
			So after coming to the U.S., the
		
00:36:15 --> 00:36:16
			first time I just got to hang out
		
00:36:16 --> 00:36:18
			with my friend in New York City, just
		
00:36:18 --> 00:36:20
			to walk around, like first year in New
		
00:36:20 --> 00:36:20
			York.
		
00:36:21 --> 00:36:24
			And we got to the New York University
		
00:36:24 --> 00:36:24
			MSA.
		
00:36:25 --> 00:36:26
			We just looked at the masjid where we
		
00:36:26 --> 00:36:27
			pray.
		
00:36:27 --> 00:36:28
			Yeah, it's a nice spot.
		
00:36:28 --> 00:36:28
			Yeah.
		
00:36:28 --> 00:36:30
			So we were praying and we just met
		
00:36:30 --> 00:36:31
			the brother there.
		
00:36:31 --> 00:36:32
			I don't remember his name.
		
00:36:32 --> 00:36:34
			It was like eight years ago.
		
00:36:34 --> 00:36:35
			He said, you guys know Noman Khan?
		
00:36:36 --> 00:36:37
			I'm like, yeah, I've watched a couple of
		
00:36:37 --> 00:36:37
			his videos.
		
00:36:37 --> 00:36:40
			He's coming to the story night next week
		
00:36:40 --> 00:36:40
			or something.
		
00:36:41 --> 00:36:42
			I was like, oh, that's cool.
		
00:36:42 --> 00:36:43
			Let's do it.
		
00:36:43 --> 00:36:44
			So now on the spot, we bought the
		
00:36:44 --> 00:36:46
			tickets and I got the number of your
		
00:36:46 --> 00:36:47
			brother.
		
00:36:47 --> 00:36:48
			So we emailed back and forth and I
		
00:36:48 --> 00:36:50
			volunteered at the event as well.
		
00:36:51 --> 00:36:51
			You did.
		
00:36:52 --> 00:36:54
			So I remember when the people are walking
		
00:36:54 --> 00:36:55
			in, my job was just to check their
		
00:36:55 --> 00:36:56
			tickets.
		
00:36:56 --> 00:36:57
			Was that the one at Cooper Union?
		
00:36:57 --> 00:36:59
			I don't remember the spot.
		
00:36:59 --> 00:37:00
			But it was an auditorium, right?
		
00:37:00 --> 00:37:01
			Yeah.
		
00:37:01 --> 00:37:01
			With pillars.
		
00:37:02 --> 00:37:03
			It was what the Musa alaihissalam.
		
00:37:03 --> 00:37:04
			Yeah, it was Cooper Union.
		
00:37:04 --> 00:37:04
			Yeah.
		
00:37:04 --> 00:37:05
			Yes.
		
00:37:05 --> 00:37:06
			And when you were walking in, I see
		
00:37:06 --> 00:37:07
			you like, where's your ticket?
		
00:37:07 --> 00:37:09
			I asked you for your ticket on purpose
		
00:37:09 --> 00:37:10
			as a joke.
		
00:37:10 --> 00:37:11
			I don't remember what you answered.
		
00:37:12 --> 00:37:15
			But that's when the first time I heard
		
00:37:15 --> 00:37:17
			the story of Musa in a completely different
		
00:37:17 --> 00:37:18
			perspective.
		
00:37:19 --> 00:37:21
			I knew the story of Adam alaihissalam, Noah
		
00:37:21 --> 00:37:22
			alaihissalam.
		
00:37:22 --> 00:37:24
			Just very, very basic.
		
00:37:24 --> 00:37:26
			That's what I've been studying my whole years.
		
00:37:27 --> 00:37:29
			And now like, oh, this is how the
		
00:37:29 --> 00:37:29
			Quran taught.
		
00:37:29 --> 00:37:31
			The way you explained that the Quran says
		
00:37:31 --> 00:37:32
			the story that.
		
00:37:33 --> 00:37:33
			Yeah.
		
00:37:34 --> 00:37:34
			Wow.
		
00:37:34 --> 00:37:36
			And that's when like, I started getting into
		
00:37:36 --> 00:37:38
			it like by, you know, subscription and all.
		
00:37:38 --> 00:37:40
			We took a lot of pictures with the
		
00:37:40 --> 00:37:41
			actors, but I lost that phone.
		
00:37:42 --> 00:37:43
			All the memories are gone.
		
00:37:47 --> 00:37:49
			That reminds me of a New York show
		
00:37:49 --> 00:37:51
			I gave two years ago.
		
00:37:51 --> 00:37:53
			I was in New York giving the Eid
		
00:37:53 --> 00:37:53
			Khutbah.
		
00:37:54 --> 00:37:54
			Okay.
		
00:37:54 --> 00:37:55
			It was downtown New York.
		
00:37:56 --> 00:37:57
			I give the Eid Khutbah, people are coming,
		
00:37:57 --> 00:37:59
			giving me hugs and all that stuff.
		
00:37:59 --> 00:38:01
			This one guy is just staring at me.
		
00:38:02 --> 00:38:04
			I just, he's giving me the mug.
		
00:38:04 --> 00:38:08
			He's this bombastic side eye the whole time.
		
00:38:08 --> 00:38:10
			And then when people are kind of done,
		
00:38:10 --> 00:38:12
			he comes to me and goes, I don't
		
00:38:12 --> 00:38:12
			know you.
		
00:38:13 --> 00:38:14
			I don't even know if I like you.
		
00:38:15 --> 00:38:16
			But a lot of people want to take
		
00:38:16 --> 00:38:16
			a picture with you.
		
00:38:16 --> 00:38:17
			Can I take a picture with you?
		
00:38:26 --> 00:38:28
			I love the authenticity.
		
00:38:31 --> 00:38:33
			So you attended a story night.
		
00:38:33 --> 00:38:34
			I remember which story night that was.
		
00:38:34 --> 00:38:37
			Which part of Surat Al-Qasas?
		
00:38:37 --> 00:38:38
			That was from Surat Al-Qasas.
		
00:38:40 --> 00:38:41
			Young and courageous.
		
00:38:42 --> 00:38:44
			The early life of Muslims.
		
00:38:44 --> 00:38:46
			And that's when you really explained like about
		
00:38:46 --> 00:38:47
			man getting married.
		
00:38:47 --> 00:38:49
			The guy called you like, go get the
		
00:38:49 --> 00:38:49
			baby bottle.
		
00:38:49 --> 00:38:52
			Yeah, of course.
		
00:38:52 --> 00:38:53
			Like that was like, yeah, I gotta be
		
00:38:53 --> 00:38:54
			the man now.
		
00:38:54 --> 00:38:55
			I was very young.
		
00:38:55 --> 00:38:56
			I was 18 or 19.
		
00:38:57 --> 00:38:59
			I wasn't very young, but not mature.
		
00:38:59 --> 00:39:00
			That was a good one.
		
00:39:00 --> 00:39:01
			That helps.
		
00:39:01 --> 00:39:03
			I think that motivated a lot of people
		
00:39:03 --> 00:39:04
			as well.
		
00:39:04 --> 00:39:04
			Like youngsters.
		
00:39:05 --> 00:39:06
			I should tell that joke to you guys.
		
00:39:06 --> 00:39:06
			Yeah.
		
00:39:06 --> 00:39:07
			You know it.
		
00:39:07 --> 00:39:07
			I do.
		
00:39:07 --> 00:39:09
			I don't know if you wouldn't know it.
		
00:39:09 --> 00:39:10
			Yeah, I think I heard it.
		
00:39:11 --> 00:39:11
			Tell it.
		
00:39:11 --> 00:39:14
			I was like, okay, I don't want to
		
00:39:14 --> 00:39:14
			butcher it.
		
00:39:14 --> 00:39:16
			But I was like, so, you know, now
		
00:39:16 --> 00:39:19
			you have guys that will come up and
		
00:39:19 --> 00:39:20
			say, I like this girl.
		
00:39:20 --> 00:39:21
			I want to marry her.
		
00:39:21 --> 00:39:22
			I've been talking to her.
		
00:39:22 --> 00:39:23
			How long have you been talking to her?
		
00:39:23 --> 00:39:24
			Three years.
		
00:39:24 --> 00:39:26
			But I'm not sure if I should, you
		
00:39:26 --> 00:39:27
			know, I'm not sure if I'm ready to
		
00:39:27 --> 00:39:28
			get married.
		
00:39:28 --> 00:39:29
			Or I'm not sure if I can talk
		
00:39:29 --> 00:39:29
			to the family.
		
00:39:30 --> 00:39:31
			Three, after three years?
		
00:39:31 --> 00:39:32
			What if they, yeah, what if they say
		
00:39:32 --> 00:39:32
			no?
		
00:39:32 --> 00:39:33
			You get this all the time.
		
00:39:33 --> 00:39:34
			Okay.
		
00:39:34 --> 00:39:36
			And I'm like, oh, I have a brother.
		
00:39:36 --> 00:39:36
			What should I do?
		
00:39:37 --> 00:39:38
			I'm like, I have a solution.
		
00:39:38 --> 00:39:39
			Go to the local pharmacy.
		
00:39:40 --> 00:39:42
			If you go to the infant section, they
		
00:39:42 --> 00:39:43
			have this baby formula.
		
00:39:44 --> 00:39:45
			And get yourself a small bottle.
		
00:39:46 --> 00:39:48
			And you have to get, like, it needs
		
00:39:48 --> 00:39:49
			to be a little bit warmer than room
		
00:39:49 --> 00:39:49
			temperature.
		
00:39:50 --> 00:39:51
			Shake it really well.
		
00:39:51 --> 00:39:52
			You stick the thing on top.
		
00:39:53 --> 00:39:54
			You go sit in the corner and suck
		
00:39:54 --> 00:39:54
			on that bottle.
		
00:39:54 --> 00:39:55
			Because you're a baby.
		
00:39:55 --> 00:39:55
			You're not a man.
		
00:39:56 --> 00:39:57
			And when you become a man, then you
		
00:39:57 --> 00:39:58
			can go talk to the family.
		
00:40:00 --> 00:40:01
			Yeah, yeah.
		
00:40:04 --> 00:40:05
			It's a joke, but it really touched a
		
00:40:05 --> 00:40:06
			lot of people.
		
00:40:06 --> 00:40:07
			Like, it works.
		
00:40:07 --> 00:40:07
			Yeah, it works.
		
00:40:08 --> 00:40:10
			This was, this is a classic.
		
00:40:13 --> 00:40:15
			And Alhamdulillah, within two years, I guess.
		
00:40:15 --> 00:40:17
			I went to my father, like, I want
		
00:40:17 --> 00:40:17
			to get married.
		
00:40:18 --> 00:40:20
			After getting a job and all this stuff.
		
00:40:20 --> 00:40:20
			Yeah.
		
00:40:20 --> 00:40:20
			Straight.
		
00:40:21 --> 00:40:21
			Nice.
		
00:40:22 --> 00:40:23
			I think because of that.
		
00:40:23 --> 00:40:24
			Okay, it got through.
		
00:40:28 --> 00:40:29
			Yeah, that's phenomenal.
		
00:40:31 --> 00:40:33
			So what are you guys up to nowadays?
		
00:40:36 --> 00:40:38
			So I'm actually in consulting right now.
		
00:40:39 --> 00:40:41
			It's actually, given by the amount of lectures
		
00:40:41 --> 00:40:43
			I've heard from you, it's your favorite, favorite
		
00:40:43 --> 00:40:45
			field of study.
		
00:40:46 --> 00:40:46
			It's accounting.
		
00:40:47 --> 00:40:48
			Oh, my God.
		
00:40:49 --> 00:40:50
			Isn't it software engineering?
		
00:40:50 --> 00:40:53
			That's why you do combat sports, to release
		
00:40:53 --> 00:40:53
			you.
		
00:40:55 --> 00:40:56
			Probably true.
		
00:40:56 --> 00:40:57
			You want to debit somebody's credit.
		
00:40:59 --> 00:41:00
			It's funny you say that.
		
00:41:00 --> 00:41:02
			Because, like, in some of the meetings that
		
00:41:02 --> 00:41:03
			I've had with some of my colleagues, they're
		
00:41:03 --> 00:41:05
			like, why do you do martial arts?
		
00:41:05 --> 00:41:06
			I'm like, it's the only way to balance
		
00:41:06 --> 00:41:07
			out the life that I'm having here.
		
00:41:08 --> 00:41:10
			Yeah, but it's, well, we say that jokingly.
		
00:41:10 --> 00:41:12
			No, it's actually, it's a great place that
		
00:41:12 --> 00:41:13
			I'm in.
		
00:41:13 --> 00:41:13
			That's pretty cool.
		
00:41:14 --> 00:41:14
			Yeah.
		
00:41:14 --> 00:41:15
			I'm a software engineer.
		
00:41:16 --> 00:41:18
			What kind of stuff are you developing?
		
00:41:18 --> 00:41:19
			Mostly full stack.
		
00:41:20 --> 00:41:21
			It's for the financial company.
		
00:41:21 --> 00:41:21
			I see.
		
00:41:22 --> 00:41:23
			Front end, back end database and all that
		
00:41:23 --> 00:41:24
			kind of stuff.
		
00:41:24 --> 00:41:26
			You're the heavy hitter, full stack.
		
00:41:26 --> 00:41:26
			Kinda, yeah.
		
00:41:27 --> 00:41:28
			Didn't you do software engineering?
		
00:41:28 --> 00:41:28
			I was.
		
00:41:29 --> 00:41:30
			Then I made Toba.
		
00:41:30 --> 00:41:37
			And then now I have, well, with Behina,
		
00:41:37 --> 00:41:42
			it's kind of almost a tech company, almost.
		
00:41:42 --> 00:41:44
			Because we have a lot of tech issues
		
00:41:44 --> 00:41:46
			and, you know, the app and all of
		
00:41:46 --> 00:41:47
			that stuff.
		
00:41:49 --> 00:41:51
			So I deal with engineers and we have
		
00:41:51 --> 00:41:52
			a company we work with.
		
00:41:53 --> 00:41:54
			They're out in Kosovo, actually.
		
00:41:55 --> 00:41:55
			Oh.
		
00:41:55 --> 00:41:55
			Yeah.
		
00:41:56 --> 00:41:57
			So I go to Kosovo a few times.
		
00:41:58 --> 00:41:59
			We're good friends out there.
		
00:42:00 --> 00:42:01
			Uzbekistan is a place I've been wanting to
		
00:42:01 --> 00:42:02
			go, actually.
		
00:42:03 --> 00:42:03
			Oh, perfect.
		
00:42:04 --> 00:42:04
			It would be pretty cool.
		
00:42:05 --> 00:42:06
			I don't know if I tell anybody.
		
00:42:06 --> 00:42:08
			I just show up and just let people
		
00:42:08 --> 00:42:08
			give me the look.
		
00:42:10 --> 00:42:11
			Yeah, a lot of people know you.
		
00:42:12 --> 00:42:13
			So when people know me and they see
		
00:42:13 --> 00:42:16
			me walk by, here's what happens.
		
00:42:18 --> 00:42:21
			The person who wants to, like, who hates
		
00:42:21 --> 00:42:23
			you and wants to almost attack you has
		
00:42:23 --> 00:42:26
			the same look as the person who almost
		
00:42:26 --> 00:42:26
			recognizes you.
		
00:42:27 --> 00:42:28
			I didn't know that.
		
00:42:29 --> 00:42:34
			So they're looking at you, like, and I'm
		
00:42:34 --> 00:42:36
			thinking, should I be ready?
		
00:42:38 --> 00:42:40
			And then within a split second, are you?
		
00:42:41 --> 00:42:44
			But the original look is just as dangerous.
		
00:42:46 --> 00:42:47
			And I look back and he's still doing
		
00:42:47 --> 00:42:48
			the scan.
		
00:42:49 --> 00:42:50
			I'm just going to let this be.
		
00:42:50 --> 00:42:51
			I need to become a stoic and let
		
00:42:51 --> 00:42:52
			it happen.
		
00:42:54 --> 00:42:55
			Yeah, around two years ago, I made a
		
00:42:55 --> 00:42:57
			YouTube video on my own about the bayina
		
00:42:57 --> 00:42:58
			.com.
		
00:42:58 --> 00:42:58
			Oh, you did?
		
00:42:58 --> 00:43:00
			In my language, like, hey, guys, want to
		
00:43:00 --> 00:43:02
			study Arabic or lectures, bayina, you can go
		
00:43:02 --> 00:43:03
			and subscribe and all.
		
00:43:04 --> 00:43:06
			And after that, I did see that, you
		
00:43:06 --> 00:43:08
			know, when you go to bayina, the subscription
		
00:43:08 --> 00:43:09
			page, it's going to show you numbers, like
		
00:43:09 --> 00:43:11
			how many people are waiting for subscription.
		
00:43:12 --> 00:43:14
			Uzbekistan just really grew.
		
00:43:14 --> 00:43:15
			It was like 2030, I guess.
		
00:43:16 --> 00:43:16
			Yeah.
		
00:43:16 --> 00:43:17
			So I hope because of that, a lot
		
00:43:17 --> 00:43:19
			of people get to know now, like a
		
00:43:19 --> 00:43:19
			lot of people.
		
00:43:19 --> 00:43:20
			MashaAllah.
		
00:43:20 --> 00:43:22
			How's English comprehension in Uzbekistan?
		
00:43:22 --> 00:43:22
			Say again?
		
00:43:22 --> 00:43:24
			How's English comprehension in Uzbekistan?
		
00:43:24 --> 00:43:25
			Oh, very good nowadays.
		
00:43:26 --> 00:43:27
			Almost everyone speaks English.
		
00:43:27 --> 00:43:29
			Not the older people.
		
00:43:29 --> 00:43:31
			One of my hopes now with the way
		
00:43:31 --> 00:43:34
			AI is, you know, moving at light speed,
		
00:43:35 --> 00:43:38
			is that, you know, I always wondered if
		
00:43:38 --> 00:43:40
			I can get my duroos, because it's been
		
00:43:40 --> 00:43:43
			now almost 24 years, 25 years that I'm
		
00:43:43 --> 00:43:46
			trying to study Quran, comment on the Quran.
		
00:43:47 --> 00:43:49
			And inshaAllah, another 12, 15 years to go
		
00:43:49 --> 00:43:51
			before I can complete my work, at least
		
00:43:51 --> 00:43:52
			that phase of the work.
		
00:43:52 --> 00:43:55
			But whatever has been done so far, I
		
00:43:55 --> 00:43:58
			was thinking, man, if I just learned another
		
00:43:58 --> 00:43:59
			language and I tried to do this over
		
00:43:59 --> 00:44:01
			again in another language, it would take me
		
00:44:01 --> 00:44:02
			another 25 years.
		
00:44:03 --> 00:44:04
			Like, this is too much work.
		
00:44:05 --> 00:44:08
			Well, now I'm thinking if AI could be
		
00:44:08 --> 00:44:10
			trained enough to do it in my voice
		
00:44:10 --> 00:44:14
			in Uzbek, in Farsi, and, you know, in
		
00:44:14 --> 00:44:14
			Punjabi.
		
00:44:14 --> 00:44:15
			I think there are already like ways to
		
00:44:15 --> 00:44:16
			do that.
		
00:44:16 --> 00:44:18
			There is, because it's multilingual, right?
		
00:44:18 --> 00:44:20
			So I'm speaking in Arabic sometimes, throwing in
		
00:44:20 --> 00:44:21
			some stupid Urdu joke or whatever.
		
00:44:21 --> 00:44:23
			So if the AI model can be trained
		
00:44:23 --> 00:44:26
			to, because there's only so much range I
		
00:44:26 --> 00:44:27
			have, right?
		
00:44:27 --> 00:44:29
			I come back to the same things as
		
00:44:29 --> 00:44:30
			any human being does.
		
00:44:31 --> 00:44:33
			That if it can be trained, I think
		
00:44:33 --> 00:44:35
			it can be produced.
		
00:44:35 --> 00:44:38
			And then, because to me, it's not just
		
00:44:38 --> 00:44:39
			getting my work produced.
		
00:44:39 --> 00:44:44
			The point to me is the Quran is
		
00:44:44 --> 00:44:47
			missing from our discourse.
		
00:44:48 --> 00:44:51
			Like Islamic discourse is about all things.
		
00:44:51 --> 00:44:53
			With a touch of the Quran, like a
		
00:44:53 --> 00:44:55
			reference to the Quran.
		
00:44:55 --> 00:44:56
			It's not Quran discourse.
		
00:44:57 --> 00:45:00
			The Quran is not our conversation, you know?
		
00:45:00 --> 00:45:03
			And I want the Quran not to replace
		
00:45:03 --> 00:45:05
			those conversations, but at least be as much
		
00:45:05 --> 00:45:08
			a conversation as all else.
		
00:45:09 --> 00:45:11
			You know, this is the thing that created
		
00:45:11 --> 00:45:13
			this civilization, this book.
		
00:45:13 --> 00:45:16
			And now it's just become like a referential
		
00:45:16 --> 00:45:17
			tool, right?
		
00:45:18 --> 00:45:18
			And so...
		
00:45:18 --> 00:45:20
			Is that why you kind of find that
		
00:45:20 --> 00:45:23
			book that you reference with Al-Fiqar as
		
00:45:23 --> 00:45:23
			like fascinating?
		
00:45:24 --> 00:45:25
			Is he kind of like touching upon the
		
00:45:25 --> 00:45:26
			fact that how it was very...
		
00:45:28 --> 00:45:29
			There was a Quranic discourse.
		
00:45:29 --> 00:45:31
			That was not the reason.
		
00:45:32 --> 00:45:36
			I've become more and more fascinated with two
		
00:45:36 --> 00:45:36
			things.
		
00:45:37 --> 00:45:40
			The history of the last 400 years and
		
00:45:40 --> 00:45:42
			the history of the first 100 years.
		
00:45:43 --> 00:45:44
			That's very specific.
		
00:45:45 --> 00:45:46
			It is very specific, yeah.
		
00:45:46 --> 00:45:49
			So the last 400 years helps me understand
		
00:45:49 --> 00:45:53
			much more deeply why we are where we
		
00:45:53 --> 00:45:54
			are.
		
00:45:54 --> 00:45:57
			Not just politically and socially, but also intellectually.
		
00:45:57 --> 00:45:59
			Why are Muslims...
		
00:45:59 --> 00:45:59
			Even Muslim scholarship.
		
00:46:00 --> 00:46:01
			Like when I think of when I went
		
00:46:01 --> 00:46:04
			to visit a madrasa in Pakistan, and they
		
00:46:04 --> 00:46:07
			were using a certain curriculum for their madrasa.
		
00:46:07 --> 00:46:09
			These 400 years helped me understand how did
		
00:46:09 --> 00:46:11
			that curriculum get developed?
		
00:46:11 --> 00:46:12
			How did it come here?
		
00:46:12 --> 00:46:13
			How did it evolve?
		
00:46:13 --> 00:46:14
			How did it end up in this madrasa?
		
00:46:14 --> 00:46:16
			And what is it producing now, right?
		
00:46:16 --> 00:46:18
			There's a context to why things are the
		
00:46:18 --> 00:46:19
			way they are.
		
00:46:19 --> 00:46:24
			And what we often do in our study
		
00:46:24 --> 00:46:26
			of history these last 400 years, the most
		
00:46:26 --> 00:46:30
			recent 400 years, is we separate the Islamic
		
00:46:30 --> 00:46:35
			history, Islamic scholarly history, from the political history.
		
00:46:35 --> 00:46:38
			As though they're two separate subjects.
		
00:46:39 --> 00:46:41
			Religion and politics are never separate.
		
00:46:42 --> 00:46:43
			They're never separate.
		
00:46:43 --> 00:46:47
			The state, or forces, or money is always
		
00:46:47 --> 00:46:50
			involved in what becomes the dominant narrative.
		
00:46:50 --> 00:46:52
			Or what is allowed to survive as the
		
00:46:52 --> 00:46:54
			narrative, right?
		
00:46:54 --> 00:46:58
			So a state-sanctioned religion is part of
		
00:46:58 --> 00:46:59
			our history.
		
00:47:00 --> 00:47:04
			And protest against that, and voices that were
		
00:47:04 --> 00:47:05
			raised against that is also a part of
		
00:47:05 --> 00:47:05
			our history.
		
00:47:06 --> 00:47:08
			It's not just, oh, you know, the church
		
00:47:08 --> 00:47:11
			that did it, or the ancient Jews that
		
00:47:11 --> 00:47:11
			did it.
		
00:47:11 --> 00:47:12
			No, Muslims did it too.
		
00:47:12 --> 00:47:13
			Muslims have done it too.
		
00:47:13 --> 00:47:14
			And they don't just do it now.
		
00:47:14 --> 00:47:16
			You know when it's happening now.
		
00:47:16 --> 00:47:17
			It's clear as day.
		
00:47:18 --> 00:47:19
			But we think it's just happening now.
		
00:47:19 --> 00:47:19
			No, no, no.
		
00:47:19 --> 00:47:22
			This has been happening for some centuries.
		
00:47:22 --> 00:47:24
			And if you don't understand that, then you
		
00:47:24 --> 00:47:26
			can't really honestly look at the scholarship.
		
00:47:27 --> 00:47:29
			Because you're looking at it in isolation from
		
00:47:29 --> 00:47:32
			other influences and other forces, right?
		
00:47:32 --> 00:47:34
			So that's one of my fascinations.
		
00:47:34 --> 00:47:36
			The other is, of course, the first 100
		
00:47:36 --> 00:47:39
			years, which I'll just give you one question
		
00:47:39 --> 00:47:41
			that's still unanswered for me.
		
00:47:42 --> 00:47:44
			I became very interested in the subject of
		
00:47:44 --> 00:47:44
			Riba.
		
00:47:46 --> 00:47:48
			And I still don't have answers on that
		
00:47:48 --> 00:47:49
			subject.
		
00:47:49 --> 00:47:50
			It's still questions right now.
		
00:47:50 --> 00:47:50
			And I'm exploring.
		
00:47:51 --> 00:47:52
			And one of the things I really wanted
		
00:47:52 --> 00:47:56
			to explore in depth is, well, Islam spread.
		
00:47:56 --> 00:47:57
			And we got to the Roman Empire.
		
00:47:57 --> 00:47:58
			We got to the Persian Empire.
		
00:47:58 --> 00:47:59
			We got to the Abyssinians.
		
00:47:59 --> 00:48:02
			And, you know, so we're taking over all
		
00:48:02 --> 00:48:03
			these lands.
		
00:48:04 --> 00:48:08
			And now we're implementing Sharia, which means we're
		
00:48:08 --> 00:48:09
			prohibiting Riba.
		
00:48:09 --> 00:48:10
			Yeah.
		
00:48:10 --> 00:48:12
			So my question is, when we get to
		
00:48:12 --> 00:48:14
			the Byzantine Empire, what did Riba look like
		
00:48:14 --> 00:48:15
			before we got there?
		
00:48:16 --> 00:48:20
			And what did removing Riba look like after
		
00:48:20 --> 00:48:21
			we came?
		
00:48:22 --> 00:48:25
			Like, how did the economic structure change?
		
00:48:25 --> 00:48:26
			How are we operating?
		
00:48:27 --> 00:48:27
			Right?
		
00:48:28 --> 00:48:30
			We have so many theoretical discussions about these
		
00:48:30 --> 00:48:31
			subjects.
		
00:48:32 --> 00:48:36
			And we have anecdotal stories from like our
		
00:48:36 --> 00:48:39
			Sira tradition, like one or two glimpses of
		
00:48:39 --> 00:48:40
			this stuff.
		
00:48:40 --> 00:48:42
			But we're not just the Sira.
		
00:48:42 --> 00:48:45
			And now there's an entire civilization that was
		
00:48:45 --> 00:48:45
			built.
		
00:48:46 --> 00:48:48
			How did they implement it?
		
00:48:49 --> 00:48:51
			And I'm today years old, and I don't
		
00:48:51 --> 00:48:52
			know yet.
		
00:48:53 --> 00:48:54
			Was there like a lot of actually references
		
00:48:54 --> 00:48:56
			to go back to that would actually delve
		
00:48:56 --> 00:48:57
			into that detail?
		
00:48:57 --> 00:48:59
			That's what I'm still in the dark right
		
00:48:59 --> 00:48:59
			now.
		
00:48:59 --> 00:49:01
			I'm trying to speak with some historians about
		
00:49:01 --> 00:49:02
			where I can find more of this.
		
00:49:02 --> 00:49:04
			And maybe some people have done work on
		
00:49:04 --> 00:49:04
			this.
		
00:49:04 --> 00:49:05
			And just in my ignorance, because this is
		
00:49:05 --> 00:49:07
			a relatively new curiosity that I have.
		
00:49:08 --> 00:49:09
			So I don't even know actually where to
		
00:49:09 --> 00:49:09
			begin.
		
00:49:10 --> 00:49:10
			Yeah.
		
00:49:10 --> 00:49:11
			Because actually, that makes me curious.
		
00:49:11 --> 00:49:13
			Because just recently, I was actually studying the
		
00:49:13 --> 00:49:15
			history of how the Muslims actually took over
		
00:49:15 --> 00:49:16
			Constantinople.
		
00:49:16 --> 00:49:17
			Yeah.
		
00:49:17 --> 00:49:19
			See, that's middle Islam now.
		
00:49:19 --> 00:49:20
			Yeah, that's very middle Islam.
		
00:49:21 --> 00:49:22
			But you said Byzantine Empire.
		
00:49:22 --> 00:49:25
			And basically, that's when the Byzantine Empire actually
		
00:49:25 --> 00:49:25
			came to an end.
		
00:49:25 --> 00:49:26
			That's right.
		
00:49:26 --> 00:49:29
			Because when Sultan Muhammad al-Fatih actually took
		
00:49:29 --> 00:49:31
			the city, and he actually just changed it
		
00:49:31 --> 00:49:37
			dramatically, like insanely fast, the changes took over.
		
00:49:38 --> 00:49:39
			And how there was...
		
00:49:41 --> 00:49:43
			I'm not sure about the economical situation of
		
00:49:43 --> 00:49:45
			the Byzantine Empire, but they dealt with a
		
00:49:45 --> 00:49:48
			lot of gold, and specifically before the conquest
		
00:49:48 --> 00:49:49
			of Constantinople.
		
00:49:50 --> 00:49:53
			And Constantine had to actually take a lot
		
00:49:53 --> 00:49:56
			of the monuments and the churches and everything,
		
00:49:56 --> 00:49:58
			and had to burn it down and mine
		
00:49:58 --> 00:49:59
			it into coins.
		
00:49:59 --> 00:50:00
			To mine the gold.
		
00:50:00 --> 00:50:00
			Exactly.
		
00:50:02 --> 00:50:04
			But right now, actually, one of the historians
		
00:50:04 --> 00:50:07
			that I saw, he actually held one of
		
00:50:07 --> 00:50:12
			the coins, and it didn't have any engravings
		
00:50:12 --> 00:50:12
			on it.
		
00:50:12 --> 00:50:14
			It was just little copper, even.
		
00:50:14 --> 00:50:14
			It was not even gold.
		
00:50:15 --> 00:50:16
			So he was kind of in a dire
		
00:50:16 --> 00:50:18
			situation, almost economically.
		
00:50:19 --> 00:50:19
			Wow.
		
00:50:19 --> 00:50:20
			Yeah.
		
00:50:20 --> 00:50:21
			I'd have to actually remember...
		
00:50:21 --> 00:50:24
			I think to this day, he's in Massachusetts,
		
00:50:24 --> 00:50:27
			if you're ever in the East Coast area.
		
00:50:27 --> 00:50:28
			I mean, I hate the Celtics.
		
00:50:31 --> 00:50:33
			But I must admit their superior team, and
		
00:50:33 --> 00:50:35
			we got crushed.
		
00:50:36 --> 00:50:36
			Yeah.
		
00:50:36 --> 00:50:37
			There's nothing you can do about that.
		
00:50:37 --> 00:50:37
			Yeah.
		
00:50:37 --> 00:50:39
			It was like watching a high school team
		
00:50:39 --> 00:50:43
			play a college team.
		
00:50:44 --> 00:50:45
			Yeah, it's painful.
		
00:50:46 --> 00:50:49
			Anyway, so I'll take my time going to
		
00:50:49 --> 00:50:49
			Massachusetts.
		
00:50:52 --> 00:50:53
			I'll fly in from a different city.
		
00:50:53 --> 00:50:54
			I won't fly in from Dallas.
		
00:51:00 --> 00:51:02
			It was really nice talking to you guys.
		
00:51:03 --> 00:51:06
			I want to sort of ask you now,
		
00:51:07 --> 00:51:10
			going forward, you've been exposed to my work,
		
00:51:11 --> 00:51:12
			I think, to a decent extent.
		
00:51:15 --> 00:51:19
			What is it that you think about this
		
00:51:19 --> 00:51:21
			work that we're trying to do as Bayyinah
		
00:51:21 --> 00:51:24
			has impacted your relationship with the Quran particularly?
		
00:51:24 --> 00:51:25
			Because you're Muslims already.
		
00:51:25 --> 00:51:27
			You already knew about the Quran.
		
00:51:27 --> 00:51:28
			You already probably read some translation or heard
		
00:51:28 --> 00:51:29
			those.
		
00:51:29 --> 00:51:33
			What is it that brings some sort of
		
00:51:33 --> 00:51:35
			value to this work for you guys?
		
00:51:35 --> 00:51:36
			I want to know.
		
00:51:37 --> 00:51:37
			Yeah.
		
00:51:38 --> 00:51:40
			So at least for me, ever since I
		
00:51:40 --> 00:51:42
			was like 16 or 17, I've been delving
		
00:51:42 --> 00:51:43
			into it.
		
00:51:43 --> 00:51:44
			I read a lot of books.
		
00:51:45 --> 00:51:47
			I'm not on social media at all.
		
00:51:49 --> 00:51:52
			I don't spend much time on my phone
		
00:51:52 --> 00:51:53
			either.
		
00:51:53 --> 00:51:55
			I just like to spend a lot of
		
00:51:55 --> 00:51:56
			time either listening to lectures.
		
00:51:57 --> 00:51:58
			I read a lot of books.
		
00:51:58 --> 00:52:02
			Particularly, I like to refer to books as,
		
00:52:03 --> 00:52:05
			I don't want to call them self-help
		
00:52:05 --> 00:52:07
			books, but more like self-improvement and how
		
00:52:07 --> 00:52:10
			to always optimize how to actually go about
		
00:52:10 --> 00:52:13
			it the best way, particularly in the areas
		
00:52:13 --> 00:52:14
			of psychology and sociology.
		
00:52:17 --> 00:52:19
			I've always at least thought, like, believe me,
		
00:52:19 --> 00:52:22
			the Quran basically has the answers for everything,
		
00:52:22 --> 00:52:24
			but I didn't know how to actually navigate
		
00:52:24 --> 00:52:25
			it and know how to actually go about
		
00:52:25 --> 00:52:25
			it.
		
00:52:25 --> 00:52:26
			Extract those answers.
		
00:52:26 --> 00:52:27
			Exactly.
		
00:52:28 --> 00:52:30
			Because there were many times I would read
		
00:52:30 --> 00:52:32
			books, and then I would remember, like, I
		
00:52:32 --> 00:52:34
			would read a particular part of a paragraph
		
00:52:34 --> 00:52:34
			of a book.
		
00:52:34 --> 00:52:35
			I'm like, oh, yeah, actually, I think that
		
00:52:35 --> 00:52:38
			ayah actually just basically describes what this book
		
00:52:38 --> 00:52:40
			has been talking about for an entire chapter.
		
00:52:41 --> 00:52:43
			That entire chapter is just really just in
		
00:52:43 --> 00:52:48
			that one ayah kind of thing, like, like
		
00:52:48 --> 00:52:50
			that book when I read The Obstacle is
		
00:52:50 --> 00:52:52
			the Way by Ryan Holiday.
		
00:52:53 --> 00:52:56
			Basically, that entire book is basically stoicism, and
		
00:52:56 --> 00:52:58
			it delves into a lot of details.
		
00:52:58 --> 00:53:02
			But when I read, basically, The Obstacle is
		
00:53:02 --> 00:53:07
			the Way, so that's, so I've always known,
		
00:53:08 --> 00:53:10
			basically, the Quran basically has the answers.
		
00:53:10 --> 00:53:12
			Every book I've ever read, basically, I know
		
00:53:12 --> 00:53:14
			in a way the Quran has touched upon
		
00:53:14 --> 00:53:14
			it.
		
00:53:15 --> 00:53:18
			But going specifically, when I went through Quran
		
00:53:18 --> 00:53:21
			Week and Surah Al-Hadeed, Alhamdulillah, I'm very
		
00:53:21 --> 00:53:22
			thankful.
		
00:53:22 --> 00:53:23
			Hadeed was quite an experience.
		
00:53:23 --> 00:53:26
			Yes, it was like, Surah Al-Hadeed was
		
00:53:26 --> 00:53:27
			mind-blowing, honestly.
		
00:53:29 --> 00:53:32
			And that really set the foundation for me
		
00:53:32 --> 00:53:33
			as to how I can actually go back
		
00:53:33 --> 00:53:35
			to the Quran, and how can I read,
		
00:53:35 --> 00:53:36
			especially like you give out the booklets, and
		
00:53:36 --> 00:53:38
			how, what is the blueprint of actually when
		
00:53:38 --> 00:53:39
			you're reading the Quran?
		
00:53:40 --> 00:53:41
			What is the thought process?
		
00:53:41 --> 00:53:43
			And what are some of the answers they
		
00:53:43 --> 00:53:44
			should be looking forward to that would help
		
00:53:44 --> 00:53:45
			you extract those answers?
		
00:53:47 --> 00:53:48
			So that approach in and of itself kind
		
00:53:48 --> 00:53:50
			of made me like, okay, now I can
		
00:53:50 --> 00:53:51
			refer back to the Quran in a way
		
00:53:51 --> 00:53:52
			that would...
		
00:53:52 --> 00:53:55
			I did so many Surahs, and I was
		
00:53:55 --> 00:53:55
			so...
		
00:53:55 --> 00:53:57
			I always had a fascination with Surah Al
		
00:53:57 --> 00:53:58
			-Hadeed, but I didn't get to dive in
		
00:53:58 --> 00:53:59
			it the way I did in that Quran
		
00:53:59 --> 00:54:00
			week.
		
00:54:00 --> 00:54:00
			Yeah.
		
00:54:02 --> 00:54:04
			And this was a couple of months before
		
00:54:04 --> 00:54:06
			my son was born.
		
00:54:07 --> 00:54:08
			And I named him Hadeed.
		
00:54:09 --> 00:54:09
			Really?
		
00:54:09 --> 00:54:10
			Yeah, his name's Hadeed.
		
00:54:10 --> 00:54:10
			Oh, mashallah.
		
00:54:13 --> 00:54:15
			My mother-in-law heard, so what are
		
00:54:15 --> 00:54:15
			you studying?
		
00:54:15 --> 00:54:16
			And I was like, I'm preparing for Surah
		
00:54:16 --> 00:54:17
			Al-Hadeed.
		
00:54:17 --> 00:54:18
			She goes, we should name the baby that.
		
00:54:18 --> 00:54:20
			And I was like, okay, you're right.
		
00:54:22 --> 00:54:23
			He's Hadeed Norman Ali Khan.
		
00:54:24 --> 00:54:25
			Oh, actually, I love that name.
		
00:54:25 --> 00:54:25
			Actually, Hadeed.
		
00:54:25 --> 00:54:26
			It's pretty cool.
		
00:54:26 --> 00:54:27
			Yeah, yeah.
		
00:54:27 --> 00:54:28
			Actually, what was it about Surah Al-Hadeed
		
00:54:28 --> 00:54:30
			in specific that kind of made you...
		
00:54:30 --> 00:54:31
			or I don't know if there was one
		
00:54:31 --> 00:54:32
			thing because of the entire...
		
00:54:32 --> 00:54:33
			So it's several things.
		
00:54:35 --> 00:54:41
			My late teacher, Dr. Azhar Ahmed, he purported
		
00:54:41 --> 00:54:44
			that Surah Al-Asr summarizes the entire Quran.
		
00:54:45 --> 00:54:47
			And if Surah Al-Asr was a flower
		
00:54:47 --> 00:54:50
			or a seed, then it blooms into a
		
00:54:50 --> 00:54:51
			flower.
		
00:54:51 --> 00:54:53
			And that flower is Surah Al-Hadeed.
		
00:54:54 --> 00:54:55
			And he demonstrated that.
		
00:54:56 --> 00:55:00
			Everything in Surah Al-Asr gets elaborated and
		
00:55:00 --> 00:55:01
			opened up in Surah Al-Hadeed.
		
00:55:02 --> 00:55:04
			It's the opening of that Surah.
		
00:55:04 --> 00:55:06
			And the way that Allah has talked about
		
00:55:06 --> 00:55:08
			in the opening of that Surah is not
		
00:55:08 --> 00:55:10
			found anywhere else in the entire Quran.
		
00:55:11 --> 00:55:17
			The way that Allah has tied the philosophical
		
00:55:17 --> 00:55:22
			and the metaphysical underpinnings of our religion with
		
00:55:22 --> 00:55:24
			the mission of this religion.
		
00:55:25 --> 00:55:27
			So there's, you know, put it in the
		
00:55:27 --> 00:55:29
			most simple terms, there's, you know, you live
		
00:55:29 --> 00:55:29
			in your head.
		
00:55:30 --> 00:55:31
			How do you see the world in your
		
00:55:31 --> 00:55:32
			head?
		
00:55:32 --> 00:55:34
			And what kind of life do you lead?
		
00:55:35 --> 00:55:37
			Like, what is driving you to lead your
		
00:55:37 --> 00:55:37
			life?
		
00:55:37 --> 00:55:39
			And both of those things are so beautifully
		
00:55:39 --> 00:55:41
			fused together in the Surah.
		
00:55:41 --> 00:55:45
			Like, it really does...
		
00:55:46 --> 00:55:48
			It does something that I don't know if
		
00:55:48 --> 00:55:49
			any other Surah does in the way that
		
00:55:49 --> 00:55:49
			it does it.
		
00:55:49 --> 00:55:51
			Yeah, actually, it's funny.
		
00:55:51 --> 00:55:53
			Actually, you mentioned that because that particular part
		
00:55:53 --> 00:55:55
			is the one that really just kind of
		
00:55:55 --> 00:55:56
			blew me away.
		
00:55:56 --> 00:55:58
			Because particularly right now, actually, I got in...
		
00:55:59 --> 00:56:00
			I met like a new group of people
		
00:56:00 --> 00:56:01
			that I've been hanging out with.
		
00:56:02 --> 00:56:07
			And they're very much into the thought that
		
00:56:07 --> 00:56:10
			whatever you think about, you will end up
		
00:56:10 --> 00:56:11
			seeing at some point in your life.
		
00:56:12 --> 00:56:13
			So like manifesting or something?
		
00:56:13 --> 00:56:15
			Yeah, they call it manifestation kind of thing.
		
00:56:16 --> 00:56:17
			So just kind of keep like, watch your
		
00:56:17 --> 00:56:17
			thoughts.
		
00:56:18 --> 00:56:20
			And basically, the story that you tell yourself
		
00:56:20 --> 00:56:21
			inside, because whatever it is that goes inside
		
00:56:21 --> 00:56:23
			your head, basically, at some point, you're going
		
00:56:23 --> 00:56:24
			to be seeing.
		
00:56:24 --> 00:56:28
			And I've always thought there was a little
		
00:56:28 --> 00:56:30
			bit of a kink in the armor of
		
00:56:30 --> 00:56:31
			that argument.
		
00:56:32 --> 00:56:33
			But I know there's maybe some truth to
		
00:56:33 --> 00:56:33
			it.
		
00:56:34 --> 00:56:35
			But I didn't know how.
		
00:56:35 --> 00:56:36
			So I was wondering, how can we tie
		
00:56:36 --> 00:56:37
			that to the Quran?
		
00:56:37 --> 00:56:37
			Whereas I mentioned the Quran.
		
00:56:38 --> 00:56:39
			So when I listened to Surah Al-Hadeed,
		
00:56:40 --> 00:56:41
			I was mind blown.
		
00:56:41 --> 00:56:42
			I'm like, okay, now I got my answers.
		
00:56:43 --> 00:56:43
			Now this is it.
		
00:56:44 --> 00:56:45
			Now I was like reading Surah Al-Hadeed
		
00:56:45 --> 00:56:45
			over and over.
		
00:56:45 --> 00:56:47
			My mom actually, just last week, asked me,
		
00:56:47 --> 00:56:49
			my mom goes through Surahs and she wants
		
00:56:49 --> 00:56:51
			to memorize the Quran as much as possible.
		
00:56:52 --> 00:56:53
			And she's like, what Surah should I go?
		
00:56:53 --> 00:56:54
			I'm like, go for Surah Al-Hadeed.
		
00:56:55 --> 00:56:55
			Go for Surah Al-Hadeed.
		
00:56:57 --> 00:56:58
			It's amazing.
		
00:56:58 --> 00:56:59
			Like it's so...
		
00:56:59 --> 00:57:00
			MashaAllah.
		
00:57:00 --> 00:57:00
			Yeah.
		
00:57:00 --> 00:57:02
			Yeah, I'm actually really baffled right now.
		
00:57:04 --> 00:57:06
			I've been stressed with every Surah that I've
		
00:57:06 --> 00:57:06
			covered.
		
00:57:07 --> 00:57:10
			But this is a new level of stress
		
00:57:10 --> 00:57:10
			right now.
		
00:57:10 --> 00:57:11
			Surah Al-Hadeed?
		
00:57:11 --> 00:57:12
			No, not right now.
		
00:57:12 --> 00:57:13
			Right now?
		
00:57:13 --> 00:57:13
			Surah As-Saf.
		
00:57:13 --> 00:57:14
			Surah As-Saf?
		
00:57:14 --> 00:57:15
			Yeah.
		
00:57:15 --> 00:57:15
			Why?
		
00:57:15 --> 00:57:18
			I've taken more time off to prep for
		
00:57:18 --> 00:57:20
			Surah As-Saf than any other Surah in
		
00:57:20 --> 00:57:22
			all of the Quran weeks that I started
		
00:57:22 --> 00:57:23
			from since Surah Al-Dhariyat.
		
00:57:25 --> 00:57:26
			There's two Surahs that I knew were going
		
00:57:26 --> 00:57:28
			to take me, like they were going to
		
00:57:28 --> 00:57:30
			drain my brain juice.
		
00:57:31 --> 00:57:33
			And we're going to be Hadeed and Hashir.
		
00:57:34 --> 00:57:36
			Not Hadeed, Saf and Hashir.
		
00:57:36 --> 00:57:38
			The three used to be Hadeed, Saf and
		
00:57:38 --> 00:57:38
			Hashir.
		
00:57:38 --> 00:57:39
			But Alhamdulillah, those are done.
		
00:57:40 --> 00:57:41
			That's Saf, man.
		
00:57:42 --> 00:57:42
			That's a beast.
		
00:57:43 --> 00:57:44
			It's...
		
00:57:44 --> 00:57:46
			There's so much to do, ya Allah.
		
00:57:47 --> 00:57:47
			I'm all...
		
00:57:48 --> 00:57:49
			I'm overwhelmed.
		
00:57:49 --> 00:57:52
			I gave the research team, because we study
		
00:57:52 --> 00:57:53
			together as a team.
		
00:57:53 --> 00:57:55
			I gave them like, here's what we're going
		
00:57:55 --> 00:57:56
			to work on.
		
00:57:56 --> 00:57:58
			And they're like, yeah, that's a lot of
		
00:57:58 --> 00:57:59
			stuff.
		
00:57:59 --> 00:58:01
			Did you like extract so many, like a
		
00:58:01 --> 00:58:02
			lot of information out of it?
		
00:58:02 --> 00:58:03
			A lot of like treasures, as we called
		
00:58:03 --> 00:58:04
			it at the beginning of this conversation.
		
00:58:05 --> 00:58:07
			And you kind of have to choose like
		
00:58:07 --> 00:58:07
			a path?
		
00:58:08 --> 00:58:08
			Or how does it go?
		
00:58:08 --> 00:58:09
			Yeah, yeah, yeah.
		
00:58:11 --> 00:58:11
			There's...
		
00:58:12 --> 00:58:18
			This surah, it demonstrates the mission of the
		
00:58:18 --> 00:58:20
			Prophet ï·º in the most explicit terms.
		
00:58:21 --> 00:58:23
			And it's easy to just read that and
		
00:58:23 --> 00:58:23
			move on.
		
00:58:24 --> 00:58:26
			And it's not easy to stop and contemplate
		
00:58:26 --> 00:58:26
			it.
		
00:58:28 --> 00:58:29
			It leads to some very...
		
00:58:30 --> 00:58:31
			You're going to go down a rabbit hole
		
00:58:31 --> 00:58:33
			of questions and exploration.
		
00:58:34 --> 00:58:36
			And I'm doing that currently.
		
00:58:38 --> 00:58:40
			It's made me revisit things I was studying
		
00:58:40 --> 00:58:41
			20 years ago.
		
00:58:43 --> 00:58:43
			Wow.
		
00:58:45 --> 00:58:45
			Recounting them.
		
00:58:47 --> 00:58:49
			Revisiting conclusions I thought I had reached five
		
00:58:49 --> 00:58:50
			years ago.
		
00:58:51 --> 00:58:52
			I have to rethink them.
		
00:58:52 --> 00:58:55
			So it's like a cataclysmic shift in my
		
00:58:55 --> 00:58:57
			head right now going on.
		
00:58:57 --> 00:58:59
			Because I'm like just giving myself to Surat
		
00:58:59 --> 00:59:00
			Al-Hadeed.
		
00:59:00 --> 00:59:01
			Wow.
		
00:59:01 --> 00:59:02
			What's the stuff you mean?
		
00:59:03 --> 00:59:03
			Huh?
		
00:59:03 --> 00:59:04
			Sorry, I keep saying Hadeed.
		
00:59:04 --> 00:59:04
			Yeah.
		
00:59:06 --> 00:59:07
			All sorts of stuff, yeah.
		
00:59:08 --> 00:59:08
			Yeah.
		
00:59:09 --> 00:59:10
			Wait, do you have a deadline for it?
		
00:59:10 --> 00:59:11
			How's it supposed to be done?
		
00:59:11 --> 00:59:12
			Well, I'm supposed to teach it in Michigan.
		
00:59:12 --> 00:59:13
			I don't know what I'm going to do.
		
00:59:14 --> 00:59:15
			It's coming up.
		
00:59:16 --> 00:59:16
			Yeah.
		
00:59:17 --> 00:59:18
			Early July.
		
00:59:19 --> 00:59:20
			29th, is it?
		
00:59:20 --> 00:59:21
			June 29th, isn't it?
		
00:59:22 --> 00:59:22
			Is it?
		
00:59:23 --> 00:59:23
			Oh, God.
		
00:59:23 --> 00:59:24
			I have no time.
		
00:59:24 --> 00:59:26
			No, I think it's a little later than
		
00:59:26 --> 00:59:26
			that.
		
00:59:26 --> 00:59:27
			A little later than that, yeah.
		
00:59:27 --> 00:59:29
			You're coming to Maryland in July for the
		
00:59:29 --> 00:59:30
			story night.
		
00:59:30 --> 00:59:30
			That's right.
		
00:59:30 --> 00:59:31
			We'll see you there.
		
00:59:31 --> 00:59:33
			That's when you thought you knew the story
		
00:59:33 --> 00:59:34
			of Adem Ali Salam.
		
00:59:34 --> 00:59:34
			Yeah.
		
00:59:36 --> 00:59:38
			So when you do story nights, do they
		
00:59:38 --> 00:59:39
			change from one to another?
		
00:59:39 --> 00:59:40
			Do you do them?
		
00:59:40 --> 00:59:41
			I develop one.
		
00:59:41 --> 00:59:42
			Yeah.
		
00:59:42 --> 00:59:43
			Then I tour the world with it.
		
00:59:43 --> 00:59:43
			Okay.
		
00:59:43 --> 00:59:44
			For about a year and a half.
		
00:59:45 --> 00:59:46
			Then I retire that one.
		
00:59:46 --> 00:59:48
			Then I take six months to recover from
		
00:59:48 --> 00:59:49
			doing story nights.
		
00:59:50 --> 00:59:51
			And then think of another one.
		
00:59:52 --> 00:59:54
			So there were two that I was thinking
		
00:59:54 --> 00:59:54
			about.
		
00:59:54 --> 00:59:56
			The one currently, I usually don't give away
		
00:59:56 --> 00:59:56
			what I'm doing.
		
00:59:56 --> 01:00:01
			But I thought when I studied, I re
		
01:00:01 --> 01:00:03
			-studied the story of Adem Ali Salam in
		
01:00:03 --> 01:00:03
			the Quran.
		
01:00:04 --> 01:00:09
			And I am now convinced that it is
		
01:00:09 --> 01:00:13
			the first priority for every Muslim, and actually
		
01:00:13 --> 01:00:16
			every human being to know this story before
		
01:00:16 --> 01:00:17
			they know anything else.
		
01:00:19 --> 01:00:21
			It's not just first chronologically, it's first in
		
01:00:21 --> 01:00:22
			priority.
		
01:00:22 --> 01:00:23
			That's why it's the first story told in
		
01:00:23 --> 01:00:24
			the Mus'haf.
		
01:00:25 --> 01:00:27
			And there's a reason it's the first.
		
01:00:27 --> 01:00:30
			Now I'm seeing the reason.
		
01:00:30 --> 01:00:32
			Why is this the first?
		
01:00:33 --> 01:00:34
			Everything else we're learning.
		
01:00:37 --> 01:00:39
			Well, to put it the most simply, why
		
01:00:39 --> 01:00:41
			are we on this planet?
		
01:00:42 --> 01:00:45
			I need a deep answer to that question.
		
01:00:45 --> 01:00:46
			Why are we here?
		
01:00:46 --> 01:00:49
			That question is the story of Adem Ali.
		
01:00:49 --> 01:00:51
			That's how we got here.
		
01:00:51 --> 01:00:53
			And that's, in essence, something that you're developing.
		
01:00:53 --> 01:00:55
			That answer is not in the...
		
01:00:55 --> 01:00:55
			I developed it.
		
01:00:55 --> 01:00:56
			You developed it.
		
01:00:56 --> 01:00:56
			I developed it.
		
01:00:56 --> 01:00:57
			It's not on Bayyinah though.
		
01:00:58 --> 01:00:58
			No, not yet.
		
01:00:59 --> 01:01:01
			Not in the way that I'm doing it
		
01:01:01 --> 01:01:01
			now.
		
01:01:01 --> 01:01:02
			I've done some stuff on the story of
		
01:01:02 --> 01:01:04
			Adem Ali Salam, but not this way.
		
01:01:04 --> 01:01:04
			Okay.
		
01:01:05 --> 01:01:09
			And this is, to me, it's the most
		
01:01:09 --> 01:01:11
			known story in the world.
		
01:01:12 --> 01:01:14
			Some version of this is known by everybody.
		
01:01:14 --> 01:01:14
			Yeah.
		
01:01:15 --> 01:01:16
			The book of Genesis has it.
		
01:01:16 --> 01:01:17
			The rabbinical tradition has it.
		
01:01:17 --> 01:01:18
			The Christians have their own reading of it.
		
01:01:19 --> 01:01:19
			Yeah.
		
01:01:19 --> 01:01:19
			Right.
		
01:01:20 --> 01:01:21
			So there's at least three versions of the
		
01:01:21 --> 01:01:23
			story floating around already.
		
01:01:24 --> 01:01:25
			Before the Qur'an even enters the picture.
		
01:01:26 --> 01:01:29
			The biblical version, the Jewish version, the Christian
		
01:01:29 --> 01:01:29
			version.
		
01:01:30 --> 01:01:31
			I kind of want to ask you what
		
01:01:31 --> 01:01:32
			is the answer you could...
		
01:01:33 --> 01:01:34
			Come to start.
		
01:01:39 --> 01:01:39
			Yeah.
		
01:01:40 --> 01:01:43
			It got me thinking even about Islamic education,
		
01:01:44 --> 01:01:45
			like kids education.
		
01:01:48 --> 01:01:52
			There's a point where we need to form
		
01:01:52 --> 01:01:53
			the identity of a child.
		
01:01:53 --> 01:01:56
			When you think about identity, the first definition
		
01:01:56 --> 01:01:57
			of identity is affiliation.
		
01:01:58 --> 01:02:00
			To me, practically speaking.
		
01:02:00 --> 01:02:00
			Not subconscious.
		
01:02:00 --> 01:02:01
			At the subconscious level.
		
01:02:01 --> 01:02:03
			At a conscious level, as a child is
		
01:02:03 --> 01:02:07
			developing, their first sense of self comes from
		
01:02:07 --> 01:02:08
			self-sense of belonging.
		
01:02:08 --> 01:02:09
			So if they don't see Baba or Mama,
		
01:02:10 --> 01:02:11
			they get a little nervous.
		
01:02:12 --> 01:02:13
			Or even if they're comfortable with...
		
01:02:13 --> 01:02:14
			My kid is very social.
		
01:02:15 --> 01:02:17
			The slightest one, he'll go to anybody.
		
01:02:17 --> 01:02:18
			He'll give anybody a smile.
		
01:02:19 --> 01:02:19
			Yeah.
		
01:02:19 --> 01:02:19
			He was just...
		
01:02:19 --> 01:02:21
			Hadith is just like he's...
		
01:02:21 --> 01:02:22
			Mashallah.
		
01:02:22 --> 01:02:24
			But if he sees me even from a
		
01:02:24 --> 01:02:26
			distance, the way he sings and dances...
		
01:02:26 --> 01:02:28
			He's 10 months old, 10 and a half
		
01:02:28 --> 01:02:28
			months old.
		
01:02:29 --> 01:02:30
			He'll go crazy.
		
01:02:31 --> 01:02:34
			Because there's a bond between us.
		
01:02:35 --> 01:02:36
			And that's actually become a part of his
		
01:02:36 --> 01:02:37
			identity.
		
01:02:38 --> 01:02:39
			He's learning language from his parents.
		
01:02:40 --> 01:02:42
			He's getting his genetics from his parents.
		
01:02:43 --> 01:02:46
			He's getting his habits from his parents.
		
01:02:46 --> 01:02:49
			His parents are an extension of, if not,
		
01:02:49 --> 01:02:51
			the formulating part of his identity.
		
01:02:51 --> 01:02:52
			Think about that for a moment.
		
01:02:52 --> 01:02:55
			Parents are a core part of your identity,
		
01:02:55 --> 01:02:56
			right?
		
01:02:56 --> 01:02:58
			Both physically and psychologically and socially and everywhere,
		
01:02:59 --> 01:02:59
			right?
		
01:03:00 --> 01:03:01
			Now, take that back.
		
01:03:01 --> 01:03:02
			Who's our parent?
		
01:03:02 --> 01:03:02
			Adam.
		
01:03:03 --> 01:03:03
			Adam.
		
01:03:04 --> 01:03:07
			If you don't know your parent, then you
		
01:03:07 --> 01:03:08
			don't really know you.
		
01:03:09 --> 01:03:12
			So does it kind of like at some
		
01:03:12 --> 01:03:13
			point tell you where we kind of diverted?
		
01:03:13 --> 01:03:14
			Is it going to have to go back
		
01:03:14 --> 01:03:16
			to the source to make things right kind
		
01:03:16 --> 01:03:17
			of thing or...
		
01:03:19 --> 01:03:20
			I don't know.
		
01:03:21 --> 01:03:21
			Okay, yeah.
		
01:03:22 --> 01:03:23
			It's juicy.
		
01:03:23 --> 01:03:25
			I'll give you one clue though.
		
01:03:25 --> 01:03:25
			Okay.
		
01:03:26 --> 01:03:30
			The way Allah talks about Adam in Surah
		
01:03:30 --> 01:03:36
			Al-Baqarah, some of that is also the
		
01:03:36 --> 01:03:38
			way he talks about the Israelites.
		
01:03:39 --> 01:03:40
			In the same surah.
		
01:03:41 --> 01:03:42
			Same language.
		
01:03:44 --> 01:03:44
			It's very perplexing.
		
01:03:45 --> 01:03:45
			It's confusing.
		
01:03:46 --> 01:03:46
			What?
		
01:03:47 --> 01:03:49
			Why would he talk about them with this
		
01:03:49 --> 01:03:50
			same phrase?
		
01:03:51 --> 01:03:53
			That was here, right?
		
01:03:54 --> 01:03:56
			It's mind-blowing stuff.
		
01:03:57 --> 01:03:58
			Okay, yeah.
		
01:03:58 --> 01:04:00
			I'm trying not to ask a lot more
		
01:04:00 --> 01:04:00
			questions.
		
01:04:01 --> 01:04:01
			I know.
		
01:04:01 --> 01:04:03
			I want to create those questions in your
		
01:04:03 --> 01:04:03
			head.
		
01:04:04 --> 01:04:05
			Yeah, you're doing a * of a job.
		
01:04:06 --> 01:04:07
			Yes, it's working.
		
01:04:08 --> 01:04:09
			That's my job is to get people to
		
01:04:09 --> 01:04:12
			start develop an itch in their brain to
		
01:04:12 --> 01:04:13
			get them to go and explore.
		
01:04:14 --> 01:04:18
			Yeah, I mean, I'm hoping that you guys
		
01:04:18 --> 01:04:21
			inshallah become It's interesting.
		
01:04:21 --> 01:04:22
			You come from very different backgrounds.
		
01:04:23 --> 01:04:25
			You're coming from a background where religion was
		
01:04:25 --> 01:04:26
			not really a part of your life.
		
01:04:27 --> 01:04:28
			And you have to hide from your parents
		
01:04:28 --> 01:04:31
			to learn the Quran or learn anything about
		
01:04:31 --> 01:04:31
			Islam.
		
01:04:32 --> 01:04:34
			And you're getting a full-on 17 classes
		
01:04:34 --> 01:04:35
			a day in Islam.
		
01:04:36 --> 01:04:39
			And seven of those classes are Islam education.
		
01:04:40 --> 01:04:43
			And yet you're finding yourselves kind of...
		
01:04:44 --> 01:04:46
			You discovered, I think your first exposure was
		
01:04:46 --> 01:04:47
			story night.
		
01:04:47 --> 01:04:48
			Real, real exposure.
		
01:04:48 --> 01:04:48
			In the year.
		
01:04:49 --> 01:04:49
			Right?
		
01:04:49 --> 01:04:50
			For the Quran, yes.
		
01:04:50 --> 01:04:50
			Yeah, yeah.
		
01:04:51 --> 01:04:54
			Which is also to me, it's two different
		
01:04:54 --> 01:04:54
			things.
		
01:04:54 --> 01:04:57
			What story night does is my objective of
		
01:04:57 --> 01:04:59
			story night was somebody hears that and says,
		
01:04:59 --> 01:05:00
			Wow, the Quran talks to me.
		
01:05:01 --> 01:05:02
			These stories are alive.
		
01:05:03 --> 01:05:03
			Right?
		
01:05:03 --> 01:05:06
			There's this personalized connection.
		
01:05:06 --> 01:05:08
			And the purpose of divine speech was, Wow,
		
01:05:08 --> 01:05:09
			that is from God.
		
01:05:10 --> 01:05:10
			Yeah.
		
01:05:10 --> 01:05:11
			That can't be human.
		
01:05:13 --> 01:05:15
			Well, those are two equally important things.
		
01:05:15 --> 01:05:15
			Yeah.
		
01:05:15 --> 01:05:17
			Because one of them is kind of intellectual.
		
01:05:18 --> 01:05:18
			Yeah.
		
01:05:18 --> 01:05:18
			Right?
		
01:05:18 --> 01:05:20
			Okay, now I'm convinced it's divine.
		
01:05:21 --> 01:05:23
			But that doesn't mean that I connect with
		
01:05:23 --> 01:05:24
			it deeply.
		
01:05:24 --> 01:05:24
			Yeah.
		
01:05:25 --> 01:05:25
			Emotionally.
		
01:05:25 --> 01:05:26
			But the stories...
		
01:05:27 --> 01:05:27
			Yeah.
		
01:05:28 --> 01:05:29
			They're...
		
01:05:29 --> 01:05:29
			So, SubhanAllah.
		
01:05:29 --> 01:05:30
			You guys came to...
		
01:05:30 --> 01:05:31
			Full circle.
		
01:05:31 --> 01:05:32
			Full circle.
		
01:05:32 --> 01:05:33
			In a really interesting way.
		
01:05:33 --> 01:05:34
			MashaAllah.
		
01:05:34 --> 01:05:36
			No, it's actually funny because when I was
		
01:05:36 --> 01:05:37
			growing up and we'd hear all these stories.
		
01:05:37 --> 01:05:38
			So there was a lot of emphasis on
		
01:05:38 --> 01:05:40
			tarikh, on history.
		
01:05:40 --> 01:05:40
			Yeah.
		
01:05:40 --> 01:05:43
			And there was the story of Umar ibn
		
01:05:43 --> 01:05:44
			al-Khattab when he was hiding between the
		
01:05:44 --> 01:05:49
			cloth of the Kaaba with ill intentions.
		
01:05:49 --> 01:05:51
			And he heard them reciting Quran.
		
01:05:51 --> 01:05:51
			Yeah.
		
01:05:52 --> 01:05:54
			And how he was mind-blown by it.
		
01:05:54 --> 01:05:54
			That's right.
		
01:05:54 --> 01:05:56
			And how there's this other tribe leader that
		
01:05:56 --> 01:05:58
			he was told that plug your ears when
		
01:05:58 --> 01:06:01
			you hear like Muhammad alayhi s-salatu wa
		
01:06:01 --> 01:06:01
			s-salam.
		
01:06:01 --> 01:06:02
			Obviously, they didn't say Muhammad alayhi s-salatu
		
01:06:02 --> 01:06:03
			wa s-salam.
		
01:06:03 --> 01:06:06
			When you hear Muhammad, like basically you just
		
01:06:06 --> 01:06:07
			plug your ears because it's like magic.
		
01:06:08 --> 01:06:11
			And he was at some point like he
		
01:06:11 --> 01:06:12
			heard it and was like, Oh, that must
		
01:06:12 --> 01:06:13
			be it.
		
01:06:13 --> 01:06:14
			And he plugged them like, you know what?
		
01:06:15 --> 01:06:17
			I'm the tribe leader.
		
01:06:19 --> 01:06:20
			I was like, I can't do that.
		
01:06:20 --> 01:06:20
			So I should listen to it.
		
01:06:21 --> 01:06:22
			And he was fascinated.
		
01:06:22 --> 01:06:22
			He learned Islam.
		
01:06:22 --> 01:06:24
			But I'm like, what is it that they
		
01:06:24 --> 01:06:25
			listen to?
		
01:06:25 --> 01:06:27
			Like, I want to know what is it?
		
01:06:27 --> 01:06:28
			Like, how come I'm not feeling what they're
		
01:06:28 --> 01:06:29
			feeling?
		
01:06:29 --> 01:06:30
			What is it that I don't understand that
		
01:06:30 --> 01:06:30
			they did?
		
01:06:31 --> 01:06:31
			Yeah.
		
01:06:31 --> 01:06:33
			So that's kind of like what, that was
		
01:06:33 --> 01:06:34
			kind of like the tipping point with divine
		
01:06:34 --> 01:06:34
			speech, actually.
		
01:06:35 --> 01:06:37
			I hope you guys become a motivation for
		
01:06:37 --> 01:06:37
			many others.
		
01:06:38 --> 01:06:38
			Inshallah.
		
01:06:39 --> 01:06:39
			To engage with the Quran.
		
01:06:40 --> 01:06:41
			And Allah protect both of you.
		
01:06:41 --> 01:06:43
			I'm really grateful that you guys came.
		
01:06:46 --> 01:06:48
			Hope you guys enjoyed this discussion.