Naima B. Robert – The {VIRTUAL} Salon Muslim Marriages What is Going Wrong Pt 2
AI: Summary ©
The speakers stress the importance of avoiding negative social media comments and certain things during marriage, including virtual art clubs and virtual art clubs. They also emphasize the importance of collaborative and collaborative marriage, including virtual art clubs and virtual art clubs. The speakers provide examples of virtual art clubs and virtual art clubs, and emphasize the need to avoid certain things during marriage.
AI: Summary ©
One of the brothers mentioned in the chat that, you know,
basically, you know, maybe it still happens today, I don't know,
but certainly in our day, you can see what old heads he has panela
like,
like, you know, kind of traumatized by the past, but, you
know, you'd have a meeting or two, you get some references. He's a
good brother, she's a good sister, you know, one meeting two
meetings, chemistry there, boom, we're married. And that's it.
Okay, now, the brother was saying in the chat that this, you know,
the kinds of questions even that people would ask in the meetings,
you know, questions about, you know, do you pray, which, which,
which scholars? Do you follow? You know, like, what books do you
read, like, these types of things that seem not to take
compatibility into account? So I know Abdullah had mashallah, you
are, you have got some very strong ideas about what people should be
doing before marriage just before you shoot off? Could you please
tell us what what is your blueprint that you that you that
you share with people to make sure in sha Allah Insha Allah, they
marry the person that is a good fit?
I think why did a talk a while ago about strictly soulmates finding
the right person? At the end of the talk? I'll put forward a
question.
If you're gonna give this invested, going back to businesses
relationship, this is not this necessarily the blueprint where if
you're going to invest a million pounds in the person's business,
what type of questions would you like to ask, I can just take the
fact that whatever he tells you about doing reference checks
without actually finding out their background properly, I don't think
you would, because you'll, you'll be considered foolish of throwing
away a million pounds, I think there's more value than a million
pounds, either from the system or from the brothers, there's a lot
more value that's going to be there. So likewise, you need to
make sure you do the correct, you know, due diligence on the man
side is different on the woman's side. And on the side, I think I'm
Leila opened up by speaking about not making use of the Wali
properly, I kind of like dismissing it a little bit finding
purpose, and this is part of our society. So you're not going to
knock a person through and say lock your drywall or whatever. But
the point is, that that's there for a reason. The second thing is
just to kind of close on before I leave.
And it's something that other Baker mentioned, as well, as after
you've pointed about the deal. That's, that's the given. When I
say that's a given, I mean, that's a classic compatibility issue that
I'm kind of alluding to, primarily, if we're not
compatible, and Dean, your levels of detail. And that doesn't mean
that, you know, you don't have to be exactly the same level, but
what I'm getting at is that, you know, we will don't fake anything,
just be yourself and be real. And ultimately, that's what's gonna
come out anyway. There's not two children getting married, we're
going to change we've already fixed in how you are, so be who
you are, and who you are, will and present that and don't change your
goalposts because of that other person thinking that that's going
to be what secures America's Ultimate is going to come out
afterwards. Right. And just going back to references. I think it's
well known that hadith.
You know, the Messenger of Allah was asked about two people for
marriage. He didn't speak about the dean, he said one of them this
person's behavior study this person. He's He's basically, you
know, you know, strict, very strict, overly strict basically
with regards to how he treats his wife. So the point I'm getting at
is that he spoke about what was going to affect the marriage is
not present. Yeah. Is is not the team is that for himself. He's
doing this for himself on that regard. You know, he's tre is his
obligation in the mala. Okay, he's not playing to his wife. How is
he? What was his relationship with his wife? That's what matters more
than anything else I saw, for example, is he stingy, stingy,
being stingy is the displays where we characteristic in a man, you
know, because you know, a man whose value is it, not saying that
you have to be expensive, but he's, you know, he expects to be
kind to his kids. You know, tolerant, is an important
characteristic for men, you know, in the relationship, and there's
certain things I think this is, the last point I really want to
touch on is,
I think that we want to move away from saying this is just a role.
Or this is for example, like gift given gifts given, given his
mutual it's not always the man has to compliment the wife, the wife
has to compliment them, or the man has to be the wife gifts to give
the man gives his or her husband. Why because it builds the
messenger when I said to her do to her boo, give gifts, but love is
genuinely applies to men and to women as well. You find that in
the lives of the sahaba. And I think what's missing, and this is
I think, you know, everyone's been speaking about it. We read about
the halal and haram the rights and obligations. Let's look at applied
by the Sahaba the sahaba. Look at their biographies. basically look
at the Murphy's of the horn of Russia and look at the Murphy's of
the in by the Imams how they work, their tolerance, how their wives
were, when it's mentioned, and then you're going to seek a
completely different picture.
What you understand that what you apply, and you know, taking into
account that we all have our upbringing, and it's not bad
Angelina Jolie doesn't mean doesn't mean all bad. This is a
point if we came, we had any what does that mean? That means it was
all bad. It's all rubbish, the Islam, the Islam, whatever was
considered good continued over from Arabs, the Quran affirmed it,
I continue there and prescribe them. So it's not generally means
is all ignorant is all bad. And it's no not at all. So that's also
I think, an important point to mention. So just because some of
the combat is comes across from the Muslim community remember
having a conversation with one guy, and he was ignorant himself,
and he's ignorant showed and I was doing a niqab it was a convert,
and they call Muslim.
So the guy said something along the lines of oh, this guy, you
know, hasn't been circumcised, the marriage is gonna be invalid.
We're
talking about habits? I mean,
where's that come from? What are you talking about? And again, he's
looking at something to do with his non non Islamic background, as
if it's, you know, can mean it's all bad. So this is I think, an
important point is on this closing, I think it's about being
yourself and being real. And being honest with yourself, you know,
and you know, if it works out, you're competitive, it is who you
are not faking it, basically, you're not pretending to be
something that you're not, for this purpose of capturing someone
because you're fixed, you're not going to, you're not going to
change your ways. They're gonna come out afterwards, and then that
can compatibilities gonna show and Allah knows best. I say.
No, no, that was so so good. Because I think, you know,
obviously, I know that you do a lot of this type of work. And you
know, for sure what you said about just being real. From the get go
rather than performing or kind of putting your best face forward.
You know, when someone says, you know, on the profile, I pray five
times a day, I attend my local Masjid regularly, I do this, I do
that I do that which Hamdulillah, I'm happy for you that that's the
case. And that's very reassuring. But let's talk about what's
actually going to affect this relationship. And that's a lot
more to do with mental and emotional things. We don't talk
about mental health. We're not talking about corner. We're not
talking about our parents marriages. We're not talking about
what we really want from a marriage, you ask somebody, so
what are you looking for? Let's say I want a pious wife and go to
Jana. Dude, come on now. Like, it's, you know, there's levels to
this, you know, you can't that's that's nice. And that's wonderful.
We all want that. But have you really thought about what kind of
relationship you have in mind? What did you learn from your
parents? What have you absorbed from your environment? You know,
do you want a relationship in which you your wife is more of a
partner? Are you looking for somebody who's going to keep the
home fires burning? While you do? Did it? You know, are you looking
for to be a power couple where you're both achieving, you know,
in the dunya, or in the dean or whatever, I don't know whether we
are encouraging our young people to really think deeply about the
kind of relationships that they want. But social media is
educating them differently. Because I see with the next
generation that not so much the millennials, millennials to a
certain extent, but certainly generation Zed, they've got all
this couple goals from Instagram, you know, they think Kanye West
and Kim Kardashian like that is the goal for for like a good
couple. And, and they seem quite, you know, toxic versions, I feel
of relationships, and there is no counterbalance, because there is
no media. You know, when it comes to this, this education, we're
talking about what does an Islamic love look like? People say, love
Allah, what what does that look like on the ground? You know, so
I'm interested to hear your panelists views on firstly, the
mental and the, you know, the mental health issues, the
emotional issues, you know, damage baggage, you know, whatever, we've
got to have attachment from our parents and that kind of thing,
and how, you know, is there a way forward for having those types of
conversations or allowing our young people to get to get to know
themselves in that way in order to start having more authentic
conversations when they start looking to get married? And then
what about the media side? Is there anything we can do to
educate with this generation coming up, about the Islamic
vision of marital love, besides the fifth and besides the, you
know, the ruling side, I speak on the first one, but Delhi.
If I may speak on the first one. That's actually exactly what I do,
or what I get to do what I'm privileged to do. I facilitate
conversations between couples. And I use an assessment tool that they
will have to take and it provides me with a report and every single
thing you have mentioned comes up, then days answered question comes
to and it's a psychometric test that then they have to have
conversations around. And it's really always no no couple has
ever come in. And it's the same they have different conversations,
different things different
Different epiphanies and oh my god, okay, so I always said, I am
going to be so supportive, I want a wife who works. I want a wife,
you know, my wife to be ambitious, and I'm going to support her. And
then in the conversation, you ask a question comes up, okay? What if
her job means you taking a leave of absence as the man and moving
to another continent, and they have to have the conversation
around this thing that they never even actually really thought
about? In actuality, when the call terms, they have to have
conversation around debt around, who did you see doing what between
your parents and what baggage what how is that affected you? What
role did you see your father playing in the home. And I mean,
it's, it's absolutely really in depth, and there's so much that
goes into it. So that's on that one side. And I will add that at
the same time, I'm privileged to do that, with training as a
qualified marital coach. But at the same time, informally, this is
something I've been doing that led me to doing this work, because
when I recognized the step, this vacuum that were disturbed, that's
bringing us here to talk about the challenges. They've looked, nobody
prepared, I got married 20 years ago, and I got married at the age
of
25. I was mature, in my mind, I knew what I was doing. I was, you
know, all of the stuff, you think you're ready, only to go right in
there. And both of us really shocked at what started to happen.
Because no matter what, nobody's really ever spoken, certainly
nobody had ever really spoken to us actively about this is what
this means. This is how you do this. In terms of even
compensation, this is how you respectfully bring up conflict,
this is how you resolve it, none of that relationships.
All of those things. And in that what I've chosen to do personally,
is every young person I have been able to access in any way
whatsoever, I will have these conversations, I will ask them,
What are you thinking? What is your mindset? You know, what do
you think about it? They request and some of them are amazing. They
request forums like this, and they can you come and talk to us and
just still ask questions they want to know, they're studying, they're
reading books, and they're in there. Some of them are teenagers,
some of them are in the 20s. And I think that's something every one
of us can do. You don't have to be a trained coach or a scholar stars
or Alinea, to be able to do that you can just have honest
conversations with these young people to hear where they're at
what they're thinking, and really begin to get a sense of that I
have conversations around feminism. The only reason that's a
huge conversation, in many ways is because there is that vacuum, and
we're not addressing it, there's a vacuum in there, girls, boys are
trying to figure it out. And it's the same with relationships. So I
can speak to that and say, that certainly, I think is really the
way to go. But it doesn't really have to be that you have to pay
money and calm, I think that's the best thing to do. Yes, and find a
professional, but you can begin to do that in your own circle circles
of knowledge circles of halacha. With your children, I think it's
really important. Again, I love what you said, this is Aisha and I
think you know, all of us need to and I've said this on the virtual
salon before all of us as parents, we should be empowering ourselves
to be that to be that safe space for our children, to have those
honest conversations that maybe nobody had with us, you know, that
are not common in our society, in our communities, because it starts
from the home. You know, it's great if it amplifies. But if it
doesn't amplify if there is too much resistance if there is too
much cultural baggage, that cannot be our excuse as a family for why
we never talked about it, why we never asked about it, why we
didn't open up the floor for for questions or even like you said,
you mentioned something about, you know, that time when we went away,
that was us having you know, an issue and we needed to work
through even those types of, you know, being our children. Yes,
those type those types of conversations were out. And again,
it goes back to vulnerability. Yeah, just like the man doesn't
want to be vulnerable with his wife, if he sees that his role is
supposed to be the Emir. We as parents also don't want to be
vulnerable with our children. Because we see ourselves as the
leaders of authority, we have the authority, they listen and they
follow. But I have found to panela that when you are able to be
vulnerable, and have an like, level with your child, firstly,
the amount of respect that they have for you to say, okay, like,
and then also they, you can model more effectively, because you're
being real, you know, you're not being this kind of cartoon
superhero figure who a lot of children feel I could never live
up to that. I never couldn't live up to my father. Like, he was like
this superhero to me and he took care of everything. And he was so
strong and and I'm not like that. I don't know how he did it. You
know, and I don't know, but I think I think we can definitely
empower ourselves and you know, we're so blessed to have you know,
practitioners like you, all of you who are here to guide us and
hopefully we will take you know more from this Inshallah, you
know, we've got so much stuff planned for the future in sha
Allah. So, you know this, this is an ongoing conversation just like
every, every session we have. It's an ongoing conversation. It's not
something to talk about once and be done. It's an ongoing
conversation literally, for the next 510 years, we're going to be
talking about these things. Sorry.
Can I ask?
Um, Leila and Aisha, I love them about martial arts, Rachael. And I
must thank sister NEMA, because had we known of your existence
before, I would have sent hordes of couples to both of you, I'm
being honest with you, because we didn't know anyone there was a
vacuum. But one of the things I want to ask both of you, because I
think this is an issue and it happened with my generation. And
it's still happening. Sometimes you don't know what baggage you've
got, or you've carried over from your parents, until something is
triggered by your partner. And then when that's triggered, and
you don't know what's happening, but you're not dealing with it
very well. And it's beginning to affect the relationship. But then
what happens is on Leila, the same time what you mentioned, which I
think was a fantastic way of articulating it. The sister then
says, I'm now in this position, I've changed. And suddenly, it's
like, if the grass is greener on the other side, he's not where I
want him to be. But he'd been where you wanted him to be all
these years. So it then comes out as though, okay, the man feels
he's been used. He's been used for you to get where you wanted to get
to. And because he cannot get to where you are now, you now want to
move on. And then the excuse comes to wrap up what I'm saying the
excuse comes from the sister who's now moving on, that, I saw this,
and this and this, and this and this. And it's obviously from
trauma from his past. But hold on a minute, that was triggered
because of you, or as a result of the relationship with you. How do
you both deal with that? Because that comes up quite a lot with
brothers
and young men who were not really good at expressing ourselves
emotion, let's just be frank on that. Okay, we're men are not
especially black men. So how do you deal with that?
Yeah, I just want to jump in there. Because, you know, I'm, I
think sometimes the ladies think I'm the bad the bad one, because
I'm only dealing with the ladies. And I tend to always come from
like, the perspective of how I see things according to what they're
saying that the man might be seeing things like that. So when I
speak to them, it's like, okay, but is it possible that he could
mean this? Or because you did this, it meant this to that
person? So I'm showing them another perspective, which is, you
know, obviously, what possibly could be the man's perspective,
because I haven't spoken to him. I do remind them of that. haven't
spoken to husband, but there's sometimes amazed like, am I
actually showing up like that, you know, is no, no, he knows me all
these years, blah, blah, he must know that. I didn't mean it like
that, or it wasn't like that. But I said, but if I can see that you
possibly could be coming across like this, there is that chance
that he could be seen coming across like this. And it's giving
them those light bulb moments that, you know, is what I'm doing
triggering the results that I'm getting. So it's again, looking
at, can I do something differently and see if I get a different
result, and often seen a lot of resentment from the women like
that, like they're saying, I've sacrificed? Yes, done this. Yeah.
And all these years, I've acted like this, and he still hasn't
changed. But you've sacrificed yourself and wasn't actually
putting your genuine self to the table. But now you want to do
that. He's got to get with the program. And I'm speaking from the
women's perspective, because I deal with women, but I think it
can work vice versa, you know, as a man's be putting up this front
of I want to be strong, and I will do what the brothers have told me
to do, but that's not who he is at the core, when he suddenly wants
to mellow out and chill out and, you know, do what you like, it's
okay, you know, be this person and she's not, you know, but what's
going to happen when I do that, like, she's not sure Can I can I
be vulnerable with you now that you're deciding to be vulnerable
with me, it's this dance that we've got to get to the same point
of where our feet are meeting at the same point with dancers the
same rhythm if we're not isn't gonna be stepping on each other's
toes and getting hurt and like but stick with it. You can get there.
I just want to show did you have something you wanted to? Just
quickly to add to answer for to add to the difference between
myself and own Leila is that I work only with couples, so I
wouldn't work with just a woman
Coming to see I'm working on the relationship both of you need to
come. And just the fact that you're with us in that space, as a
man says something about your willingness to sit in your
discomfort. So what I've really seen is that they may not really
know what the trigger is, and they think they have an understanding
of why the problem exists and what's going on. But midway,
halfway at the beginning, doesn't matter where understanding begins
to happen, because my job is just to facilitate conversation between
the two of us so that you have to listen to each other, you're
listening differently, you're, you know, you have a different
approach to it when you're there because you know, there's a
problem, but you really are dedicated and committed to working
it together. So there's a difference.
And I get to see the client doing the work, really, it's not for me
to solve it, you know what I mean? Or I just hold up that space or
the space, hold up that mirror, so kudos to them. If they come to me,
then there's already a level of commitment to figuring out what's
going on.
I just want to jump in there. Because I feel like, you know,
we've talked about, you know, the sisters and the sisters growth.
And I'm curious, do you think that Well, first, actually, before I go
to that, did anybody else want to add in anything on the issue of
preparation? Because that was one of the questions that that came
up. And although I had answered it before he went, does anybody else
have anything that they have maybe learned over time, keys or
strategies to prepare for marriage? Or how to choose a
spouse that we are missing right now mistakes that we're making, or
keys that we're missing? Right now? I'd love to hear your
thoughts on that. Absolutely. I think, if you don't mind me
jumping in sname, having lived abroad in a Muslim country for as
long as I have now martial law to work, like I've been able to look
at, and I use that term, again, the actualization of particular
practice practices. And when you look at how families come
together, and couples come together, in meeting, getting to
know each other, and everything, and I'm sure it happens in other
predominantly Muslim countries, we've got to really re review and
consider reconsider how we come together in the West, because that
couple of meetings, and yet, he's so be short enough and shut her
niqab and our bio fits just right, and she's pious and everything.
And she's saying the right things, reading the right books and
everything. This is not the comprehensive way to move forward
with getting to know each other, there needs to be more
communication, there needs to be more connectivity. And when I say
more communication, even if that means more meetings, if the sister
needs to speak to the brother, and she's got her chaperone there with
her, or she's got sisters with her. And it's not private
conversations where they're alone in that particular instance, if
family members need to get more connected, even if it's a non
Muslim family members, he or she needs to go into that Muslim
family, they need to see how does the man interact with the women of
his family? Pull those women to the side, whether it's the mother
or whatever, please, we're looking to get married. Can you tell us
the good points? Are there any things that we should be concerned
about? Are there any areas that need developing go to the father
or the mother of the son? Let us know how is he with you not only
just hear the stock statements, because many have heard that and
the mother will she wants her son to get married and he's wonderful.
She wants to say everything, but to look between the lines to take
the process longer. Two meetings does two meetings doesn't mean
that you are super strong, Orthodox and Muslim and your deen
is like that. What it means is that you're immature, you may have
a low level of emotional intelligence and you haven't
understood the comprehended the deen and you're setting yourself
up for fall. Now in rare occasions, it may work as you
embark upon getting to know each other. But that has not been known
to be the norm. And citing while the Sahaba did such and such, they
were the best of generations of mankind. They had revelation
coming down at a time when they were alive. They had the Prophet
of Allah salAllahu Salam there. Wow, I would meet once or twice if
I was living at that time martial arts America now. I've got such
caliber of people around me. So my thing is it from a Western
perspective, we really need to review,
pause and work out how we are going to go through that process,
that of preparation. I think the counseling thing should be done.
If there's there's a condition that they meet a counselor, they
sit and that counselor, I know it you say you listen, I think if
someone like there can be a bit of what you do and a bit of labor and
probing,
probing them as well as advising them. You can bring out whatever
fears or whatever may be lurking beneath, but it needs to change.
It needs to I agree, no, I do do that as well. And I agree with you
and part of what I would challenge us as an ummah to start doing
along with that is making it mandatory. That's really where I
would like to take it. I would like to see a space where we get
to that you know
at all great, looks good. We've done all of our checks and
balances. But before you do the new QA, you need to go and do this
counseling or coaching or whatever it is going to in depth thoroughly
signed off, whatever requires, then you can do that. I think it's
really important. And I add, blueprint, brother Abdullah had
mentioned it, I am such a pro. I'm so pro having a marriage contract.
Culturally, it's almost taboo. Certainly where I come from, it's
unheard of because it's about so many things, you know, where they
say, Oh, my God, it means you don't trust him. It means you
know, you don't trust it if you're but that's not what a contract is.
But Abdullah, he put it very beautifully, as he it is a
contract. It's a contract from Allah xojo. But what it provides
you is that blueprint to really have to sit down and extrapolate
whether you're immature or mature, you have to put on paper and
really extrapolate what is it that I want in this marriage? What am I
bringing? And what is it that I'm willing to negotiate, put that in
writing and keep, you know, keep revisiting it? I would like to see
that in the Ummah become part and parcel of our marriage situation,
what I'd add to that as well. And I'm going to touch on something
quite sensitive here. We need to make sure as well, and I seen that
implemented once the marriage is done. And I'm going to talk from
there is and don't mind me saying this, there is a pressure
on consummating the marriage. Yeah, there is a pressure that the
William is going to be there. And the couples are going to be mean
like yet intimacies, there were together, we've clicked, how many
times have you and I been to willingness, which is supposed to
be the confirmation of all the intimacy in it together. And we've
seen that vacant or afraid that fearful look in the sisters eyes,
because problems are started a few days before from marriage, which
they've just realized. And you see from the brother, a somberness,
but he's keeping up face because all the brothers slapping him on
the back, Well done, Brother, everything that needs to stop, we
need to be able to say, and some of us have done that with our
children, okay, you're gonna marry, the sister is staying in
the family home. Yeah, you can come and meet up for coffee.
You can hold hands, you can do this, but that you are not
allowed.
For most. Now, if things aren't working out in that period of
time, we can come together and talk about it. Or we can null and
say it's not going to happen. But that pressure, that overwhelming
pressure, wherever your experience from your genitalia and be in
relationships or whatever, it's too much to put on any couple, you
know, the support mechanisms suddenly disappear together, and
they dare to speak because they need it to work and everything
like that. I think, take time. And you know what you might say? How
can you put a flick figure it? No. Because in you look, the dean is
perfect. Jamelia, you'd meet someone. And even if you weren't
that intimate with them, you say I liked this guy. I'm going to keep
going out with him. months would go, he would be patient. Yes, a
year would go he will be patient. And then you say now I'm ready to
marry you. Then you all you even just get engaged. So how come to
three meetings, and in two months, you're married in Islam? No. Two
months is actually long. Two months is actually
funny because it just it reminds me of I mean, we talked about way
back Egypt days when I was thinking of doing this program,
where
the maybe six months if the two people are interested in getting
married, especially if they're young, that we start giving them
the marriage responsibilities. So say for example, the boy, he has
to, you know, have the job and start working. And he's supposed
to give that money to his parents who will put it aside for him, but
he's used to paying rent, he's used to going out working the
girl, maybe it's a case of she is cooking everyday for her dad, or
even for the brother who's passing to him finding out what does he
like to eat? She's going to do the shopping and stuff like that. It
was just it was I thought it was crazy at the time, many many years
ago and then I was like a six months? Who's going to agree to
that. And is it Islamic, you know, to wait so long? And is it going
to be seen as like, you know, caught in and, you know, brushed
it out, you know, because I thought Oh, you people are going
to you know, really look down on this because it's too long. And
it's almost like they're doing the boyfriend girlfriend thing but I
wasn't talking about them intermingling. It was more about
just getting used to having responsibilities. You know, and
even in that, that point, again, because we've got that parent or
baggage that sometimes we take into our marriage. Let's see how
you interact with maybe serving your dad and making sure that you
know, every day if you're if that's the role that you're gonna
play in the marriage, obviously, things have changed a lot. But
back in those days, it was like, you know, the wife is there and
she's going
Cook on a daily basis? Can you keep it up for you that? Can you
can you as the boy who responsible and put down that rent money every
week, even though you haven't got a property yet getting used to
some of these simple responsibilities that now it's
like, you're seeing couples and they're not even doing some of
those those basic
practicals side as well as if we haven't even talked about the
practical side, we've literally focusing on the emotional side,
and the mental side. But yes, there is the practical side of
things as well. So Pamela, but yeah, I mean, too many too many
gems here today, specifically, with regards to the waiting, you
know, they're taking time to slowing things down. And also the
supporting, supporting them in the process of getting to know each
other and, and finding they're finding their spot. And I think
absorb some of that you mentioned where, you know, a couple of
meetings, a few reference checks, Nikka, conservation, walima by
asset, go to your life, and really Subhanallah you know, I've got
quite a few people in the chat saying, you know, that the idea of
the Nikka without conservation, and basically stay in your homes,
and you caught as you said, Hello, courting, you know, really in
support of that. But the sister wants to ask about the stigma
attached to divorce in some cultures, because obviously, if
they call it off, she wants to know, how practical is the Nikkor
only situation in case of individuals not clicking? And when
do you know that? No, let's call this one off, like, what would you
be looking for? I guess, I think that's what I want to say, as
parents and as experts, what would you be looking for in that Nikka
only phase in order to say this is a goal or you know, what not this
is this is this is this is not working? What would you be looking
for, from the perspective that I would look at is a change in the
behavior
post Nikka with either of the couples, right, as opposed to how
they were presenting themselves before then Exactly, exactly. That
there's a detrimental effect in how the individual is responding
to his partner, how he's behaving towards her, not only towards her,
how is he interacting with her
family and his existing family? Because then you'll see there's
pressures now because the expectations are more upon him now
and more upon her because they're actually within the institution of
marriage. And there's no longer any Jocelyn. And playing around.
Now, the only thing that they haven't done is moved under the
same roof.
And so you will be begin begin to see the real aspects of the
individual's character. Before you can say, Do you know what you're
both ready to? We think? Or do you? How do you feel you're both
ready, move under the same roof? Because you're seeing inpatients
from one if not both of them in that particular time. And you lost
him? Why are you becoming impatient? How does that
impatience? Look, nothing's changed, except you've done the
Nikkor. Were you just after one thing and thinking that that's the
aspect of the marriage that you wanted? Were you looking to subdue
the other partner to get what you wanted from them? Meaning, are you
a taker and have expectations and you are not a deliver? Deliver? In
the same instance, once you see or if you see those changes there?
You can dress back now? Good question that was asked the stigma
of divorce when you've done the Nikkor that accurate in itself. So
I want to my lamps just went off. And when you do the ACA, the
contract? Remember the will Lima is where the big fanfare
celebrations and everything take place. I've seen here in Saudi
Arabia, where I'm living at the moment, those contracts take place
that occurred somewhere taste and engagement were nice and accurate.
There's a contract. And that's done between the families very
quietly,
very quietly. And if those issues come up that I've just mentioned,
then it's Anand very quietly
that it can work like that, I guess then then, wouldn't it? If
we taught him practicalities here, then they wouldn't be necessarily
going out together and being in public. You know, being seen in
public. If it hasn't, it's not known that they would be coming to
visit the family home having tea sitting down, they would sit in
the living room talk like that, that can happen in a western
context, as well and be restricted in that particular context as
well. And then the true colors, you do start seeing the true
colors of every individual. You really do. Because as I said, the
presentation the peacocking if you like has been removed. Now. The
contract has been signed the marriage
reality starts kicking in Yes. I'm really curious about something if
I may ask with this because a few years ago this came up and my
daughter is 16 and I read it I think you might have come across
it system email, somebody put a post talking about it.
Same thing, really, they should be Hello courtship and opportunity
for romancing and dating and all of that to happen. Because in
Islam that doesn't. It's we don't have that. And I put it to my
daughter who was 14 at the time. And the first question she asked,
when I said to her, just hypothetically, if this came up,
would you be open to it? And our first question was, she said,
Well, who would be in charge would be in charge my husband or daddy?
If, you know, if my husband tells me to do something, do I listen to
him? Or do I listen to my dad, that was interesting to me. And I
came away thinking this is a really good idea this, but I
think, and that's what's coming to me, it would be amazing when the
families get together, and are in support and figure out what works
with the couple.
Being able to say, well, this is what we want. And then I felt that
it was then the families job to support what they wanted. But I
was thinking about it from the context. Also, not just a follow
up culture, but also supporting, if they're young, economically,
they may need some help, they may not be ready to go out into the
world. But I really like what you're suggesting. It's a very
different concept to we're sort of just buffering what the world is,
the reality is before you can go out on your own, this is actually
sort of well get to know one another in the most Halal way.
Without that pressure. I think there's a lot of just as a quick
answer to your daughter's question, who would be in charge,
as you've mentioned earlier on, there's a contract, this can be a
prelim in that contract, that he's visiting the home. The decisions
will then come from both sets of families. And that's agreed to by
the couple and the great everyone.
Can I just say, I just gonna take that now. I'm just gonna put that
into practice. But I think what what's illustrated by this
example, for me, what's coming up for me? Is this, this this
synergy, really, between hopefully the young people, but also their
families. And if we're talking about young people, I think this
is very much like a young person's thing. But I mean, how wonderful
would it be to actually find a family that you're compatible
with, as well as a family and the structure that that provides in
that the families respect each other, most importantly, that
there is respect between the families that this family is is
pleased to have this girl has a daughter in law, this family is
pleased to have this boy, of course, this is all ideal. But you
know, how, how much more supportive is that environment
where the families have approved and the families are supportive,
and the families are saying, We will help you, we're not here to
come between you we're not here to compete with each other, we're
here to support you to get the very best start in life. I think
if we can do it, it's a beautiful example for the children and I
think that those marriages probably stand a much, much
greater chance of lasting because it's not just two people who you
know, if we look at how many of us did it maybe back in the day and
maybe you're still doing it now it's two strangers from strange
families you know, if you've met somebody on mismatch or pure
matrimony and you spoke for you know, two months
unless there is something really amazing happening there with this
this you know, Allah just put that understanding and compatibility
and everything there. A lot of the time you don't know the person
very well. So you marry them your family is not involved. His family
is not involved. They don't meet each other a lot of the time
brothers would not go to the Father. They wouldn't go
especially non Muslim to talk about like reverse here. They
wouldn't go to the Father and say I want to marry your daughter like
the back in the day the families were not involved at all you two
would meet you chat on the phone. Do you know if you meetings, Imam
will do the marriage like we said automate walima and now it's just
you with this strange person. Okay To be fair, without any support
around you. Your family is probably thinking you're crazy
okay? Because he does that his family is thinking who is this you
know, like we don't even know her from anyone like you know like you
to silly children. So it's for me it's such a huge contrast I don't
know what what you guys in the what people are watching this
thing please do comment, but I think inshallah we might be onto
something here.
I feel as if this could work for for even the older generations.
I am thinking that I could be a an independent mother of however many
children divorced whatever my situation, want to get married
want to do it but not know how to blend the family how to get to
know Him. And this could be a really, really good bridge to say
okay, let's do this. But let's do it like this and give it this
timeframe and see how we go. You're still the one in the
driver's seat. So the difference is just that you may not you may
choose not to involve your family may not need to you may, you may
not but I think this could really be something
Personally, I can't see it being restrictive. Can I can I add soy
on Leila? I can talk from experience by one of my friends
from childhood masala tricolour Muslim. He's, he's been married a
few times before, extend long marriages. But this time around he
stayed single for
567 years he just wasn't interested in getting married. And
then he went on to one of those matrimonial sites versus Nyima. He
met a few sisters. He met one in particular, he came to me for
advice. And I advised him of this. She had a Muslim family background
and I advised him I say, Write me if I'm going down that road again.
This is what I would do. And he said, How does that look? And he
asked all the questions I showed him that continued between the two
of them for one year.
They're together now. His children have met the sister she was never
married before. And the bond is amazing. Masha, Allah to Allah.
I have to just jump in there because I know people in these
gonna be watching this and saying a year a year. Are you serious?
How can you wait a year? What about falling into haram? How do
you keep it halal? Or haram? You're married, but I guess you
pick and choose how it works for you. Yeah. Did they get married
abdulhak? Well, they did
a year ago, okay, just didn't move in together. Right. And, yeah,
blend everything. I think I forgot what what, it's great to see them
in their natural environment. And so even things that you might pick
up being in that their natural environment that abnormal to you
to point out to them to ignite a conversation that, you know, I
noticed that your parents did this. And that's really strange to
me. But, you know, for them to start seeing like, okay, there's
differences here. Can we work with addresses that work for me, you
know, is that something that I want in my marriage, or that's
just not something that I could do? So we're already having those
conversations because you've seen them sort of like in their natural
habitat. You know, this is this is what your world looks like. The
name of the sister of Leila think, if we if I put this do we so many
references have been made to Dean by brothers sisters about
where that strong? If we really wanted to throw it on them to say,
Okay, you're that strong been this look at Abraham Elisa Lam, or no
Musa alayhis salam, when he fled from Egypt, and he met the two
women at the what what was the agreement that the Father had with
him, that you I will give you one of my daughters, and you serve me
for? I think it was eight to 10 years, that's not been asked of
them whatsoever, so that you're going into marriage, as Allah
says, In the Quran, this is a firm covenant and the Arabic that he
uses for that firm covenant is only used twice, with the prophets
have strong results as them and in marriage. So I'm not saying it has
to be a year, it may be a few months, it may, but they've got to
be prepared to embark upon this, instead of what we're doing. Now,
what is happening now does not work in its entirety. There's too
good too much heartbreak. There's too much harm done, too, as one of
the sisters said the stigma around a sister married few months
divorced. And how many sisters do we know and I don't know that it's
worse in the US environment. How many sisters have been in and out
of marriages, and brothers and brothers and by by I'm saying the
M brothers, but the stigma unfortunately, is placed on the
system because I've been children from these relationships. So this
this has got done. I will say honestly, we've made mistakes in
that regard. And we have to honor our sisters within and without of
my outside of marriage. And this multiple Marian and a sister's got
children free for marriages down the line. And Allah bless her and
bless the children. But we've got to do something different. Yes,
putting it into content, isn't it like, you know, one year as
opposed to years of this in and out and you know, marriage is not
happy? And when we could have been one year we could have seen you
know, what, what would have taken place either red flags that would
have cut it off or enough warning to say, this is what I'm really
getting myself into and I'm okay with that. Oh, just a red flag to
say enough red flags to say you know what, no, it's not worth it
for me.
Subhanallah it's so so so much has come out of this that I didn't
expect which of course is always the
one thing that that I remember Abdullah had brought up to I had
mentioned to me when we were speaking about this before today's
session was and I'm addressing this mainly for anybody who's
watching this video who maybe has had these thoughts or has has seen
this or heard this type of speech and that is you
This thing of, you know, we've met, we like each other, we need
to get married to make it Hello. Otherwise we're gonna fall into
haram. Now, I don't know whether you guys have ever kind of come
across this thinking. But I know if he was here he would speak to
that, because he was saying that that is not correct. Okay, the
choice is not marry quickly or do haram, because there's a space in
between that taking time taking a break from each other. Okay,
speaking less often not having more meetings, you know, focusing
on
fasting to give yourself space to think because again, it goes back
to what I said about you know, Gary Chapman saying that people
fall in love, and they think they need to get married. Similarly, I
think Muslims also may fall into desires and feel I must marry this
person, but then they expect the marriage to be that that forever
love and the father of your children everything when the basis
is not there. You don't know whether the basis is there, all
you know is that you like this person. But as for? Is this the
kind of man I want to be the father of my children? Do I
respect this rule? Do I want her to be the mother of my children?
What kind of life can I build with her? What does she bring into the
table? What do I have to bring to the table? What can we you know,
do you know what I mean? All of those questions. So what do you
guys has thoughts on that kind of quite a common belief really,
that, you know, if a brother and a sister meet, and they like each
other? Quickly get it done quickly? Otherwise, we're gonna
fall into hot on what are your thoughts on that? I've had to deal
with that, in my whole time, as Chairman of Brixton, and even for
sisters, I'd be working for hearing expats over here. And it's
a very dangerous scenario. And I've seen it at its worst. And I
won't go into detail. But I remember a case where that
happened. The meetings were going fine in the initial sense being
conducted properly. And then the brother became more pushy. And
that alarmed me, for example, and I said, I spoke to a sister and
said, No, I've seen this at the end. Let's not go with it.
But she now has become committed in the sense of meetings with him.
And with her. So I said to her, I said, I am not comfortable being
wacky, or if you are going to go ahead with this. And we spoke to a
shear actually rang a shake that I'm close to a teacher of mine in
the UK. And he came and she spoke to him. And he said up the heart,
you're not related to I know you're chairman of a community,
you've got many sisters, that your work, you're for their adults, if
they want to get married, that's up to them, because he was pushing
now to her that if we don't get married, I my dean is going to be
affected. Now that's a psychological burden to put on a
sister. They I pulled back, I didn't become working for them.
Because I'm very worried about what I saw. What happened years
down the line, I'm not going to go into detail. But let's put it this
way, what the individual saw that he was able to bring that sister
in that way and psychologically, emotionally get a committee. And
later on down the line, he ended up serving over 10 years in prison
for things that he shouldn't have done, that were not related to
her, but were related to family members around her. And what we've
got to realize is that when I'm talking to sisters, in this
instance, when a system becomes enamored with that pressure from
the individual, and we make them zener, and everything like that,
what do you think psychologically, you are putting in front of that
individual, his respect for you is not going to increase? It's going
to decrease. Because the premise of you both coming together was
the if you don't marry your fall into Zina, you'll fall into sin.
Our sisters are better than that. And our brothers should expect
more than that of themselves and of the sisters. And I've seen that
too many times. And when I see that, I never say
get together. Never I've never said in my 30 years as a Muslim in
my 28 years of being working for sisters. And I then I actually put
a barrier around the sister to say, I'm pulling you away from
this because if this is the sole thing that's happening,
it's going to end miserably nine times out of 10. And I'm speaking
from experience here, that's a red flag. It's it's like a flag to a
bull. And it's the most destructive element for anyone to
say they go into a marriage and for others to say because, sadly,
scholars were telling us some scholars who say if that's the
case, let them get married today don't commit sin. No. I've even
had that said about some of our children. Like look, their hearts
are attached now is better you let them get married and you still get
the blessings for it. And at least they're not committing Zina. I've
said to those youngsters, no. A few months down the line. One of
them has slipped up with somebody else maybe a non
Wow, this is why this is new.
Never a criteria for us as mothers as far as to say, yeah, yeah, we
better do it because it No, you need to put some barriers around,
I'm pulling back from that.
One of the one of the attendees says, you know, taking your time
is something temporary, you know, and it's for long term benefit,
because we'd rather take that time now. And you know, however
uncomfortable it is, or boring, or whatever it is, rather, you do
that now then suffer in the long term, because as you said, as all
of you have said, once you once you're in the marriage, all bets
are off, really, all bets are off, you know, what can you we're not
listening to him, your dad, we're not listening to him, you know, if
children come along, and he turns out to be a psycho, as we've seen
before, and maybe she turns out to be a psycho as well, all bets are
off. And now you have to deal with, do I tell my family? Well,
they didn't support in the first place. And especially in the case
of converts and reverts, we don't want to tell our families because
we don't want them to think badly of the Muslims. I know, you guys
know this, you know, we don't want them to think badly of our Muslim
husbands. So we cover his sins in front of our family. So we've got
now no one to go to, to get help. Because we're in a marriage where,
you know, we've married somebody that we really didn't know, we
didn't research well enough. And other Allah, this is the situation
we find ourselves in. So if we can avoid that, for as much as
possible, we need to really be beyond that, you know, may I add
just a nuance that's coming to me, and it isn't, maybe it's not
relevant to the western context. But it definitely is in the, in
the cultural context that I grew up in. Now that things have
changed very much in many ways. And sometimes, we have to be
honest.
Getting into marriage is also driven by cultural, cultural
pressure, in a lot of ways.
certain ideas around it needs to be this way or that way. And it's
for society. So you can find a situation where a girl is in
school just started out or just finished, maybe she's 1718. And
then interested, somebody comes along marriage, and you'll have
parents who will say, No, I am educating you, you know, like, you
need to finish your degree first before don't even think about
marriage until you've got a job. And same for the boy, if he comes
in as a young age, whatever that is. I have seen that time and time
and time again, how does that we in terms of new ones for what
you're pointing out, and rightly so I completely agree, I can't
fault any of the points that both of you have raised. But when you
have that, and they have a very valid
desire,
not just the desire to get married to each other without even the
pressure from either of them saying this is no about how should
families approach that when actually that is your own barrier
that you have placed in front of them to say no, not. In fact, it
isn't. I've seen it where it's not just that you've got to get a job,
you've got to be able to afford such an such and such until such
and such is in place, then talk to us about marriage. And they stand
in the way of that. And what I have seen time and time again, is
that they do fall into that and other we're talking about, the
young people do resort to that, because they didn't want to, and
they wanted to find a way to get married. But that has not been
made possible. And they turn around and they do that. And a lot
of the time, much of the time, I'm not so sure that a lot of family
don't even know it's happening. But you turn a blind eye, because
you believe that what's important is this idea, you have this she's
got to be independent, he's got to be independent, and that economic
socio socio economic factor is pretty key. I waited for what's
coming up for me is obviously, you know, families really thinking of
the best for their child. But also wouldn't that be a safe space for
parents to do the act without the without the, you know, without the
what we were talking about? Or at least delay? I don't know. Because
I know, you know, in Nigeria and back home in general, there are
lots more pressures from a different direction. You know,
some Muslim cultures, the pressure is very young, and married quickly
and marry well and marry big, you know, like that. But I know in
other Muslim cultures, it's almost the opposite. It's not you're too
young to get married. You need to have your education, you need to
have your degree, your master's, you need to be earning, etc, etc.
We don't hear about marriage. So it's I don't have an answer for
that. But I'd love to hear any of the panelists or anybody who's
here, who's watching this. What what's what is, what would you do
you know, well, how would you deal with parents who their concern is
not now you're too young, we need you to get your education. We
don't want to hear anything about that. I don't have an answer. I
still think it comes back to what the suggestion that I've put
forward looking at what I've experienced in my 30 years as a
Muslim, and if those parents can see that in doing this occurred
for their children
and it will, it will say see associate a particular aspect
where they can say, Okay, our parents have allowed this to
happen now a little bit within their boundaries, and they have
expectations of us. And often you'll find that couples are
empowered, the it's empowering for the man is impacted, the young man
is empowered for the young woman that, okay, my parents have got
these expectations, they have allowed this to happen, we can
grow and progress towards that, which is going to know it's gonna
help. Yeah, it's not a finality. So parents, I think that
discussion needs to take place with parents within a cultural
paradigm. And they look as well, especially from, as you're saying,
Stacia from the Nigerian context from other African communities of
South Asian, what they need to look at other traditional
communities, Muslim communities, to see that that's been done, that
it works. And it keeps everyone safe, while achieving the
objectives that they want. We want you to get to this level of
education, we want you to get this job, we want you to be this
stable, if you can, in that particular that this particular
stage in time. And then seeing that will make them realize that
this is in keeping with the Sunnah. And to distance of the
Prophet salallahu Salam, we see
the conditions that were placed initially with Aisha radiAllahu,
and her before she went to live Salam. So all that they should be
educated and reminded of these. And those contexts, from ourself,
from the profits of the last limb be placed within today's context
to say, is how it can look now.
I promise you, I'm coming to you for more information on this, for
sure, because I can I can, I can see the potential in it, but I can
also hear the conversations around it. So who's gonna pay for the
education? Who's in charge? Does he contribute? Does the Father You
know, just I can I can see the complications. But I really think
there's value in in this because ultimately, it really is about how
do we please along? How do we unite the Ummah, how do we purify
these issues, which is the reason that we're here. And having this
discussion. Afraid there also needs to be space, though, as well
for the children who are expressing their needs and wants
to be taken into consideration by the parents seriously. So it's
because this could be a problem again, down in the marriage, if
there are controlling parents who seem to be the ones that are the
leading forces in the marriage, it's like, you know, is that going
to be a hindrance to the, to the married couple, where they
actually, you know,
the other person who's feeling other buried by the other person's
parents don't feel like they have a marriage with the individual,
but just solely with the parents, and they're dictating how
everything goes. So even just, again, in this sort of, like,
cooling period that we're talking about, or development period,
there's an opportunity to see the dynamics of that child with the
parents. How much influence do they have? And how much influence
are they going to have? And is it a good influence? Or is it one
that is just like, well, I'm actually going to have to conform
to their way of life, rather than we're actually falling something
here between us. And we're both actually in agreements that we
don't want, when you're in my house is my wife, you agree with
me, but then when you're with your parents, then it's another story.
And this is this is the conflict. So I think it's a good point of
growth for both parents and the new Cobra, either dynamics of how
they work together as a unit, at Cedars, so important for us to
know about the families that were saying, whether they're Muslims or
non Muslims. You know, if these people have a place in person's
life, you need to know about it. Yep, definitely. 100%. And just
one of our guests who said, you know, I think we should embrace
ending toxic situations early. If the red flags are seen soon after
the marriage, let's make it safe for our daughters and sons to come
back home. Rather than stick it out and suffer. What do you guys
say to that?
Absolutely. 100% 100%. The beginning are often the things
that come back to me when they say, you know,
I always said I wasn't going to marry this. And I just thought,
because it ticked all the other boxes that maybe that could work
out, you know, and we can, you know, again, coming back to that I
thought I could change him if I did X, Y, and Zed and those same
red flags that you had, especially if we had these pre marital
conversations before even, you know seeing the spouse or even
have a potential spouse lined up, you know what you want from a
marriage and those red flags are there so you're not even
influenced by the person who's in front of you, that influences what
your red flags are going to be about? Because suddenly this
person is here and I completely forgotten about those red flags.
The same ones that come up and bite, bite you
No, it's
not.
There was a question system Emma, there was a question I saw, is it
okay to answer it? Which one that was directed? I think there was
somebody asking about the marriage contract. The difference between
that and a pre not sure. I wanted to say that a prenup my
understanding of it is entirely different. This is not what I'm
talking about. And yes, I do have a template I'm very interested is
very welcome to contact me. Sustained email, perhaps you know,
you'd be able to provide in there for them. It's, it's very
different a marriage contract. The way I understand it, is really
designed by you are with the framework of Islam, as within the
Quran and the Sunnah, the guidelines of the Sunnah. And both
of you determine and decide and you can extrapolate from that in
any way. I think a prenup is very different. It's something that you
are putting in place to say you will hold each other accountable
to in case the marriage breaks up. I think that's my understanding, I
stand to be corrected. So entirely different. So I call it a marital
contract, I would say maybe call it a code of conduct for
yourselves, or a blueprint or a roadmap, a personal one. But I
think that's a lot gentler, and very collaborative. That's how I
advise certainly the people that I work with to consider it, not
something to bash each other over the head with and say, You know
what? You said you were going to do this, you signed it. And now
what? I'm going to take you to court? No, that's not how I see it
happen with 10 that happen with the concepts in the sense of, you
know, even though you may have formed it together, that as people
develop and maturity comes in, and they realize, okay, it's not, I'm
not able to even, you know, fulfill what I said I will do
and not not be used as kind of like a Well, you said, kind of
Yes, of course, yes, of course, absolutely. And as a contract,
it's no different to however, when you come into the marriage, and we
start, you know, sort of banding about or bashing with rights and
responsibilities, this is my right and you're not fulfilling it, it's
really no different except that you've put it down in black and
white and it's written. So I do hope that people approach it with
maturity and not as a protective measure. I do advise and say
approach it with this is this is a guide, this is something because
when you write down, it's no different to going in and someone
saying put a vision board up, what are your goals? What are your
aspirations, when you write it down, you know, you're more likely
to be able to accomplish it. That's how I see it for a really
healthy fulfilling relationship, I can definitely see how it would
work both ways. You know, even just sometimes as a reminder for
yourself when you're going into that non authentic self or trying
to make them out exactly. Do you have some sort of say that say,
actually, that's not what I wanted. And this resonates more
with me what's on paper than what I'm actually delivering in the
marriage. And you can equally say I have I think evolution is also
normal changes, normal people should be able to grow. While I
agree with everything that you said earlier and recognize the
truth of that, at the same time, one person moves in the direction
of growing and the other doesn't, you can have problems that the
person who grew isn't shouldn't be held liable for I think, depending
on the approach that you come back with into the relationship, if
you're self righteous, and very judgmental, and it's probably
that's problematic at the best of times anyway, and you clearly have
not even evolved as much as you might think you have.
Throwing some shade, their society is throwing some shade of Dyneema
first and foremost to myself, because I think we do slip into
those spaces when Oh, you know, I went to this course I've learned
this thing now. And I'm coming back. And guess what you don't
know, I know, it's such a dangerous space to be in. But I
was saying that with that code of conduct. I just see it as
something to sort of be able to say, You know what, I've learned
this thing I didn't know it before. Now do we? Are we in
agreement, let's adjust it. There's we can do better, we can
improve upon it, add minus subtract whatever works for you,
what I'm hearing what is coming across so, so loud and clear,
right now, as we're discussing this is this. You can't make a
contract like that with somebody that you do not share a connection
with, at whatever level, you know, whether it's that you you have
some respect for this person, or you have you have seen that they
are on your wavelength or whatever it is. There's there's a
connection there. Okay, well, which we could say is
compatibility or whatever, but it's not, you know, it's not. And
I, you and I, why I'm saying this is that you mentioned, it's not a
protective measure. And I know that for a lot of sisters, our
understanding of the marriage contract is I'm stipulating
conditions in this contract to protect me to protect myself from
you, basically doing whatever it is that you want. So our
understanding of that contract is for example, if you don't want him
to get married again, of course, there's a debate about how
permissible it is. But there are many who will say yes, you can
stipulate that if he wants to marry you
And yesterday goes you all this kind of thing. But obviously,
maybe there's a place for that. But the contract that you are
describing is very much a collaborative process. It has to
be, I would say to anybody who picks it up this template and
polygamy is addressed in the one that I certainly share. However,
it doesn't say, you know, he can never marry another woman, because
I could never, I certainly
everybody has their own approach to this, I could never, ever take
the position as a Muslim woman of seeing what Allah has made. Hello,
I have decided to make haram, that's my own personal position on
polygamy. So I wouldn't, that's not in the template that I share,
if you choose to put that in. And both of you agree to that, and
then learn how to that's entirely and it is binding, if you agreed
to that, but as you said, it's collaborative. So you can put in
that you know, everyday you've got to give me avocados, or you know,
we're going to grow on a farm five years from now we're moving you
know, whatever you put in, as long as it works for you, very
important, I do remind is Let it be entirely based on what is
pleasing to Allah because that is what my advice would always be
anyway, go right back to what is pleasing to Allah. I heard a very
powerful statement a few weeks ago, you could never steal the
fruits of Jannah with the seeds of janma and I say that to my
clients, I say that to myself, remind myself and a marriage a lot
of what we are experiencing in our own work is largely because of
that. The example I just gave of culture taking precedence over
what God has said and we do that we come from that space of this is
what I want this is what I believe and yes unless that that and yes,
the prophets have said that but this is kind of what I want or
what I believe or what society has said and I think we also have to
address that at some point maybe another virtual salon or elsewhere
but that too is a huge contributing factor if not the
contributing factor to why we have to have these conversations
well I think you know we've we've covered a lot of ground masala to
Valhalla I am so happy that virtual salon is back I have
missed all of you I have missed this. May Allah accept our efforts
and may Allah bless all of you in your homes, in your work in your
mission and and just give you the reward for all your efforts in sha
Allah, guys in the chat, please just you know, express your you
know, your appreciation for these amazing panelists that we've had
today. And you guys have been great as well with your questions
and your comments, as always stimulating, engaging and insha
Allah to Allah, this is not the first but it's one of many to come
via dinner. So I just want to thank all of you as Aisha says
that a brother to harp on Leila, and I'm the one who has left us.
Thank you so much for spending this evening with us. We
appreciate you, we support you and guys follow them all on Platt on
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in sha Allah and be the law we will see them again in the virtual
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depression and trauma within the the male Muslim experience insha
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secrets of successful Muslim wives and you know, you don't want to
miss out on that Insha Allah, so please Inshallah, make dua for our
amazing panelists and I made to offer all of you this will be on
YouTube next week. Inshallah. In the meantime, thank you all for
spending the time with us Subhanak Allah humara Bunnell Hamdi a
shadow and La Ilaha and what steps to look at one or two we like are
Salam aleikum
wa rahmatullah.
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