Naima B. Robert – P#rn & Its Effect on Muslim Marriages @ShWaelIbrahim TMC E.8 Wael Ibrahim
AI: Summary ©
AI: Transcript ©
Welcome to
another marriage conversation.
And today, we are with Wa'il Ibrahim
from the AWARE Academy. Welcome, brother.
Thank you for having me, sister. It's really,
really good to be able to have this
chat with you. And today, we are gonna
be talking about a topic that is not
spoken of very much, in spaces even though
we know that it is,
well, a bit of an epidemic, isn't it?
And that is *.
And I know this is an area that
you
do a lot of work in, have been
doing a lot of work in. Tell us
how you came into the space of working
with * and * addiction and a bit
about the Aware Academy before we dive into
the questions.
So
I was one of those guys who grew
up in Egypt
during the nineties.
These were the time where we started getting
computers at home and
and Internet and so on.
And one of the things that were circulated
around and even people used to sell hard
drives full of * images and so on.
So we were among those first few 1st
generation
that was badly impacted by, *
and its addictive nature. And we didn't know
back then it was addiction and so on,
but it was it was getting into our
lives.
And,
and and we didn't have a platform or
even the culture didn't allow us to to
speak about it or to reach out for
help.
It was it was easier for a teenager,
at that time to, tell his father or
his mother that he's smoking,
he's taking drugs,
then then actually I'm addicted to *.
So so this was my first exposure
of the whole thing. And fast forward, Allah
blessed
me with,
Islam and then getting married. My wife became
a Muslim,
moving to Hong Kong, leading an organization, Islamic
organization in Hong Kong City, only to find
someone
18 years of age coming to me
saying that he wanted to kill himself,
and the reason was *.
And
flashback all these nineties,
and the time back when, * was
less accessible even if you have those VHS
tapes. Yeah. For those who don't know what
VHS tape, let me just show you a
size of a book.
VHS tape looks like that. It was even
thicker than this book, but I know that.
But it was very difficult. And, and in
order for you to play such a tape,
you need a big TV that's stuck in
a cupboard, somewhere, and the VHS cassette or
player that was also massive, big, and Yeah.
So the hassle
to go through this process to watch something,
it was very difficult.
Magazines, even magazines, you have them, but where
are you gonna watch them? Where are they
gonna you know? So you go to the
bathroom. People will come and knock your doors
and so on. Even then at that time,
when * was less accessible, it impacted us.
It got into our hearts. It got into
our minds. It made us leave
essentials and
rush to, to to to this excitement associated
with, *.
But when this boy appeared in my life
and he said he wanted to kill himself
because he's been addicted for 8 years. He
was 18 back then.
He was addicted for 8 years. So first
time when he when he got exposed to
*, he was 10. And then he
said, many hours a day he would spend
watching on his cell phone and so on.
Then I said, no. Something has to be
done in this area. So this is where
I got into,
this research and,
yeah, it's been now, 9 18,
19 years since since I got into this.
Alhamdulillah.
That's so,
I want to say, shocking.
But I I can't say shocking because I
know
that children are exposed
to *, but it's still it still is
shocking,
you know, if you think about the loss
of innocence. I'm thinking of you and your
contemporaries in Egypt, you know, where I live
right now.
And, of course, Egypt back then was a
very different place, I'm sure, to how it
is now.
But just that that culture shock or that
just that that rupture in your innocence and
how you must have your view of the
world in in a way must have changed,
your view of women, your view of what
adults get up to. I mean, how was
that for you? I know this is a
bit off topic, but
that is what it is, isn't it? It's
a loss of innocence. It's a it's a
warping Yeah. Somehow.
Definitely. I I I educate now my children.
I talk to them about these issues openly
every day because I don't want I I
wanna avoid I I wouldn't call
the mistakes of my parents. But back in
the day, this was the the norm. We
shouldn't talk and open up about these sensitive
issues. I you know, like, you know, it's
inappropriate to speak about it and so on.
Yeah.
But I I I see now the world
is different because,
accessibility
to Internet is a must.
My daughter is, in the 1st, year university,
and,
devices are required. Research is required. And I
am 100%
sure, more than 100% now, that they will
stumble
to these images,
if not on hardcore * websites
on Instagram
and Snapchat and whatnot and TikTok now.
So I decided instead of repeating the same
cycle of not being able to,
express,
what I feel or what I'm going through
to open up these conversation at home.
And as a result,
my daughter is 8 at 18 now, and,
she's about to get engaged.
Why? Because we open we allow the room
that if somebody appeared and he's nice,
just don't do anything stupid behind my back.
Come and talk to me, and I'll facilitate.
You know, I'll facilitate everything. As long as,
you know, I will advise you. I'll give
you I'll never force you and all these
things. And we grew up seeing other family
members,
enforcing. And and as a result,
a whole generation was lost to sexual,
you know,
practices that are inappropriate in Haram and so
on. So, yes, definitely,
my views on everything had changed,
coming from this background and and studying what
I have studied.
Seeing, atheists and people who don't believe even
in God,
warning
their communities about *.
That was a shock more than seeing a
young world watching * because
in the research state system this is only
in Australia where I live now.
1 in 10 * users
is under the age of 10.
1 in 10.
Now how many are there on the Internet?
1 of the largest websites and we don't
wanna mention any of these websites' names, but
one of the top, one of the largest
websites of that nature,
boasted about 42,000,000,000
visits in the year 2019
alone.
You know? The majority are children. Majority are
teenagers.
So
and some people, unfortunately, they don't wanna talk
about it. Like, you know, they tell you,
you know, don't expose people to to these
content. Don't don't teach people. Like, when you
talk when you want people on *, they
will go and watch *.
Little they know that they already own *
for years and and, and even addicted. Like,
some some statistic
shows that children even are aware of their
addiction. They know that what they are doing
is actually addiction.
That was not back in the nineties.
We thought that it's, haram. That's all. That
all what we know about is is wrong
is Yeah. But haram and so on. But
today, the children are aware that what we
are actually experiencing
on these sites are pure addiction.
I I,
looked up some statistics
and,
according to Google,
68,000,000
68,000,000
* searches * related searches
per day.
That's 25%
of all the web traffic in the world.
In your posts, and in your book, you
you know, and, you know, lately on social
media,
you've been talking about hashtag pornemic.
Tell us a bit about this pornemic. Yeah.
So,
during
the initial stage of COVID and what happened
in the world and countries start getting locked
down and so on,
That same website that I just, quoted
earlier,
they opened the the premium account.
So we have those free stuff, which are
by the billions,
but they have the premium
stuff also. They opened it for free knowing
that people are now stuck at home.
That is so bad. I love all of
that. Evil because
because because they have studied
how addiction works. Now if you tasted the
premium
for a month or 2 or 3,
will you go back to the free stuff?
No. So now they will get into your
pockets.
Yeah.
So and the problem is,
and and they were successful
in that approach.
*
consumption on their site and on millions
of other sites escalated during COVID leading to
what? Leading now to,
fights,
in the house because a husband's stuck on
his laptop or his device for hours, and
the wife want him to, you know, show
some courtesy and sit with the kids and
so on. And as a result, tensions in
the house,
you know, escalation and even
extreme bizarre
sexual activity between spouses.
Kids are leaving their studies because study went
online, so they started, you know, skipping the
studies and going on these websites. So I
said that, actually, the pandemic that we they've
been talking about, we only claim the lives
of people. People will die and may Allah
and I'm not trying to simplify that. That's
something I may Allah protect us all. But
at the end of the day, we as
Muslims believe that to Allah we belong and
to Him we shall return. Whether we die
through COVID or other means, at the end
of the day, we're gonna meet
Allah. But what * is doing is actually
worse
because it's it is snatching you from everything
beautiful in your life. It it turns you
into a zombie kind of,
a being, you know, like, dual personality, hypocrisy.
What are sexual dysfunctions?
Sexual dysfunction that lead to
dissatisfaction with the spouse as a result of
going to a prostitute. It's a chain of
problems, one after the other. And if we
started just talking about the the impact on
the brain and the physical health and the
mental health,
Last, last, last, we had 25 episodes. Each
each episode was, over an hour or so
with Alhurra TV of Egypt. Just talking about
the impacts of *
on different different areas of life. And we
could have gone for more than this. You
know?
But yeah.
That's really actually,
really amazing, and and I'm impressed actually that
Huda TV had the the guts to do
that.
To a distance
platform. Mhmm. Doctor Muhammad been always supportive of.
In fact, doctor Mohammad Salah had moved to
link in particular both of them. We're the
main reasons for this, the first time I'm
saying it, perhaps in public,
but they were the first reason for me
to delve deeper into that research.
Like, I was trying to think of, you
know, after
my bachelor in Islamic study, now I do
masters and then PhD. You know, this kind
of, academic
research.
We say we have so many PhDs and
so many islands and so many scholars in
that area, but we don't have much people
working in this,
problem, which they themselves
are witnessing. People coming to them on the
public platforms and talking again and again. Divorce
56
percent of divorce cases in America,
and that was 2,005 or 2,006.
Wow. 56%
of divorces because one of the partners or
both are addicted to *.
When will we now talk about? So pandemic
came in the form of a YouTube channel.
The when Academy launched this YouTube channel, then
we started, bringing academic research. So we don't
want to,
make you feel that we are religious fanatics
just trying to escape people from sexual pleasure
and whatnot. No. Listen to what academic researchers
and law Muslims say about the harmful impact
on children, on mental health, on the physical
brain.
Physical brain, our prefrontal cortex is shrinking
by nearly 4% of its actual size as
a result of * consumption,
leading to lack of focus, lack of motivation,
lack of, memory.
And little wonder why children who are addicted
to * are not focused on these studies.
So we started with this, and then we
are now from the library Thursday,
8 PM. Perth time, we
launched a video on a practical solution, how
people can navigate around this, heavy addiction.
That sounds like such,
an important
but sort of heavy work.
And I think sometimes we feel,
maybe,
those who are not in touch or plugged
into community issues,
unlike Mufti Menck and Muhammad Salamashallah,
may think that this is an issue that
affects non Muslims. You know, alhamdulillah, we're Muslims,
you know, we're pure, we know hara you
know, halal and haram, you know, we teach
our children the right way.
* is not an issue for the Muslim
community. What would you say to people who
say that?
Non Muslims been calling,
you know, for for the world to listen
to them years years before even
myself and even brother Ziyad Ramadan from the
States who speak also a bit about *
addiction and so on. Way before Muslims even
thought of addressing this issue, non Muslims,
you know, find the new the new drugs.
It's one of the biggest, largest organization in
the state, non
Muslims.
Remojo. Remojo is a new app that was
launched just recently by,
a few friends of mine. One of them
is Noah Church, who wrote a book on
also *.
And
these guys were,
they started the research in 2007,
And,
and Remojo is
now I'm part of it. So I'm addressing
the Muslims on their platform. So they actually
reach me out. They say, listen. We have
that platform, and we have so many Muslims
on our platform, and we want someone to
address the issue from an Islamic perspective.
Excellent.
We have so many organizations around the world,
all of which are non Muslims.
Terry Crews, one of the,
you know, superstars
in Hollywood actors,
spoke against it because he himself was affected
by it.
Wow. It's just so,
late for us to to wake up and
and and talk about it. I was actually
in a Muslim country sometimes ago, and they
told me that if you don't come down
and stop talking about this issue, we'll shoot
you.
No.
What?
It's and and and when I when I
said that, guys, this country in particular, I
I have a lot of clients,
divorces,
Zena Zena is happening
in the homes.
Like, the lady will be brought
in the house of the wife, and Zena
would happen
under her watch. Okay. Let's talk about this.
Let's let's talk about this,
this issue of
how *
addiction really,
affects marriages.
What are you seeing? How you know, obviously,
we've spoken a little bit about the effect
on the individual,
you know, mentally,
emotionally, obviously, spiritually, physically even.
What about * addiction's effect on marriages within
the Muslim community? What are you seeing?
Okay. Sister,
what is the one thing that when when
you hear the word pleasure? And the reason
why I'm asking, I want I want this
to be interactive so that the viewers, the
listeners can also understand what I'm trying to
achieve here.
When you hear the word pleasure between husband
and wife, what comes to your mind?
Intimacy?
Intimacy. Specifically,
sexual intimacy. Thank you. Because intimacy is not
always about *. It's also about connection, about,
you know,
even nonsexual touch is considered to be intimacy
and so on. But sexual intimacy, what comes
to our mind when we hear
pleasure between a husband and a wife. And
Allah
made this relationship
absolutely halal.
You and your wife together
behind closed doors in seclusion,
you are halal for one another.
Now * takes that away.
That's the first impact. The first impact is,
because because of the the intense
pleasure that * or * in general
provide for the individual,
our brain has those those pathways
that are specifically for this particular activity.
So every
time your brain would produce these hormones, like
dopamine and whatnot, to remind you to repeat
the activity, which was registered as pleasurable.
And this is the source of the addiction.
Is that correct? Is this why you get
addicted? This is this is this is yeah.
This has been how our brain usually works.
If you love a certain type of food
and you enjoyed it so much, immediately, the
brain will register that activity, and always that
hormone will be produced. Hey. Brianna, today is
alright. Okay?
Samosa, what happened? Why why you you you
didn't eat those sugar?
Yeah. And and the like. * is also
no difference. Mhmm. So what happened is when
you are consumed by *,
and as a result,
you self pleasure
yourself to *,
on the long run,
your brain will not
recognize
the real sexual
activity
as pleasurable. And as a result,
many, many
problems happen as a result of this. Number
1, loss of sexual drive to one's spouse.
So you're together, but you're on *. What's
wrong with you? We we think from that
perspective. What's wrong with you? You have your
wife. You have your husband. Why are you
on these sites? Why are you on these
filthy
websites?
Because the brain
has already sealed the deal that this is
not *. This is not intimacy.
I don't know what is that. What I
know is pixels, images,
*. That's what I know. So the brain
this is how our brain works. And that's
why people sometimes takes 9 months to a
year to heal,
to recover from this addiction, and to get
back to shape.
Leading to our sister also, if you keep
on watching these things,
erectile dysfunction in men.
And it's actually known now as * induced
erectile dysfunction. It's not only *, it's not
only erectile dysfunction as a result of diabetes
and the like, you know, like, cure us
all year on, but * induced, like, erectile
dysfunction as a result of * in your
brain. Yeah. Yeah. The the brain will not
cooperate with your sexual functionalities.
For women, on the other hand, for women
who are addicted because,
many people maybe
are are unaware that even women are also
affected by this disease.
In women, also, they are they are suffering
from something called situational anorgasmia,
the inability to reach any,
you know, climax or any pleasure during sexual
intimacy with, real life partners. So
who would be more pleasurable than the halal
intimacy that Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala. So this
is one of the things.
If you want me to keep going, sister,
we will not end this episode. You know?
Okay.
So we have a situation. Okay. And just
to be clear,
you mentioned that * addiction is not,
restricted to men. It's not just husbands who
can be addicted. You know, wives can too.
But say you have a situation where
your spouse is
addicted, and as a result of their addiction,
you know, there is no intimacy in the
marriage. So it's a sexless marriage. There are
a couple of things I wanna talk about
here.
One is that I think that in the
community and just in general,
the perception is that men are more susceptible
to being addicted to *.
And we've heard of wives kind of complaining
about this
and then being told, you know, well, you
need to basically one up the *. You
need to, you know, be better, do better.
So the first question I want to ask
really is,
is there anything
a wife or a spouse
can do
to either avoid
their spouse falling into addiction or to be
part of the treatment or the cure? Or
is this an individual journey which has nothing
to do with your spouse? Excellent.
First of all, we we have to understand
few basic things about this issue.
Yes. You're absolutely right. Men are more addicted
or,
the,
you know,
most of of the websites and most of
the time that are spent on the Internet
on these sites are by men. The majority
of those who are affected by this are
men.
So the ratio is sometimes 65 to 30
or, to 25 or 35,
65, or 70, 30%.
Still higher than you would imagine, I think.
Yes. Yes. But the danger now,
the danger is women
are most likely to act out her fantasy
faster than men. So men, maybe it will
take them years
years years before, of course, the end result
of this
endless,
you know, sexual pleasure on the Internet,
they will end up going to dirty massage,
you know, places
and,
and and visiting prostitutes and committing and having
extra,
partners and all that. It would take them
years to end into this,
situation, but women could,
you know, end up in this faster than
men. And that's because women usually
year end connection, year end, you know, conversations.
We don't want just pixels and and pictures.
We want real connection. And that's why the
danger is even though,
not many women are, on on in this
problem,
but those who are,
the chances for them to act out the
fantasy
and slip into
is greater.
Now sexless marriage. We have to, this is
very difficult and complicated matter,
so I don't wanna oversimplify
to to the viewers. But one of the
most important thing to understand is the root
cause, why the husband is not interested.
I get a lot of, these types of
email almost weekly.
My husband is not interested in this one.
Have you asked him? Yes. And, again, our
our homes are not places for these safe
conversation, for these, you know,
sensitive
issues. And because they are not normal,
we keep on just, you know, hiding them
Mhmm. And,
pretending that we're happy, but we're not.
So number 1, we have to identify the
root cause. The root cause could be addiction
to *. That's why he's he lost
interest in real life in Tennessee.
And, you have to be open about it.
You have to ask him about it. You
have to,
tell him, you know, we have to,
filter your devices and so on.
2nd, there are people who were have experienced
traumatic
stories back in the days. They were sexually
molested when they were young, boys.
And they grew up in this mess, in
this misery, addicted to * and all sort
of things. And, these issues remain unaddressed, and
as a result, they slipped into this. And,
they lost,
interest altogether. So unless we really deal with
the underlying problems, we'll never be able to
solve the current issue, and that is sexless
marriage. Mhmm.
What else, we have? Also,
one of the things that also husbands and
wives need to understand that if the partners
agreed that we don't want to participate in
sexual
intimacy. I don't want. You don't want. Okay?
Right. Marriage is still valid, by the way.
Like, Islamic speaking, marriage will remain valid.
Your husband and wife together. But if one
demanded
that right because it's a right
upon both partners
and that right is not given,
then I think,
one of the solutions, of course, is divorce.
But divorce, again, comes with a lot of
challenges, uncertainties, and so on. So
you have to address everything from scratch
all the way until
you ask yourself, am I going to bear
that marriage
sitting with a man, but he's not,
you know, fulfilling those desires of mine? It's
like just it's like
how a man is responsible to provide for
his wife financially,
food, clothing, all that. Sexual pleasure is also
his
responsibility
in that sense.
So if he's not providing that part and
the woman cannot bear and and those
those issues are leading the sisters
to haram activities online as well, then I
think divorce would be the best option unless
the husband
is willing to sort out his misery and
seek, you know, counseling, help, therapy, and whatnot.
SubhanAllah. May Allah protect us all and preserve
our marriages
and, and, you know, keep that unit solid.
Just
wrapping up on the issue of kind of
doing better than the *.
I I think I was on the website
that you were referring to, and
they had
an impact report
for 2019.
It was very interesting,
and it was talking about
how the industry has grown.
We have even more users from more diverse
backgrounds,
and, you know, these this star has become
the top, and this one has gone up
3 places. And this is the highest search
in this country. I mean, it was an
impact report for a corporate organization, basically,
all about
*. And I'm I'm thinking of
when a woman is given the advice to
to basically do better,
you know, so that her husband will no
longer be interested in that,
as a way of kind of healing the
rift.
And I'm thinking how how much of an
impossible task that is. And I think you
mentioned about the dopamine,
because as you said, when your brain becomes
adjusted to higher levels of dopamine, which is
which is the *, the *, the the
quick fix,
the the thing that's immediate rather than the
thing that is conditional on the emotions and
the mood and the, you know, and and
the human elements of it.
As you said, the the brain no longer
registers the lower levels of dopamine as anything
worth any time. So I'm I'm I'm thinking
of those women who've been given that advice
to basically
outpour the * stars,
and just thinking that that seems like it
feels like a fool's game. It feels like
without addressing
the the the the reality,
which is that
you need to break that cycle.
And and that and that person has to
decide to break that cycle for them to
heal from that in order for them to
regulate their dopamine levels and go back to
a healthy state?
Absolutely. Sister, you know, that's why
now now we understand
why Allah in the Quran
Tell to the believing men to lower their
gaze,
and as a result,
your private parts will be protected.
And the same given to women, tell to
the believing woman to lower her gaze,
and the result will be your chastity, your
private parts will be protected. Because imagine with
me, sister, if I if I'm only focusing
my attention on my wife, if the sister
is focusing all her attention on her beloved
husband, and that's the man that she looked
at and she desired and so on,
will we really compare
anyone else with her husband? Will we now
say, oh, I wish my husband looks like
this and looks like that, and I wish
my wife is not so big. It's not
so thin. It's not so small. It's not
so tall. It's not. What happened is *
is like a big buffet. You know? You
pay once, and you enjoy everything on the
table. Gosh.
So you have all all what you want.
Anything you want, you search it. You find
it.
Now why would you care about one wife?
Yeah. Why would you care about 1 person
who look the same every day? And that
same wife,
protect our sisters. They are maybe at home
serving their husbands even before you arrive home,
cooking for him, cleaning the house, making sure
that he will enjoy the comfort of,
of that home. And in the process, sometimes
she neglect herself sometimes. I'm not saying, like,
you know, this has been long for our
sisters. That's actually a long there. We've all
been there. That's a lie. No. No. Because
because Hawaii Hawaii I talked to many, Yani
men on in this. It's a lie. They
made it seems like it's a common
thing that women are not once they get
married, they don't look nice. They don't take
care of themselves.
It's a lie. There are sometimes, of course,
in the process, these things,
happen as a result of the busyness of
the home.
But, sisters, these this is my worthy it's
never your problem. It's never your fault.
Okay.
It's never your fault.
And if it is if it is, it
is also still his fault that he didn't
talk to you.
He didn't he didn't bring it to your
attention. And if you neglected yourself and he
doesn't like to see you this way, it
is still his problem that he didn't even,
honey, I would love to see you wearing
this, doing this. And
Yeah. Why? If I don't talk to my
wife about these intimate issues,
who will I go to, sister?
Who will I talk to? Yep. Yani, when
Allah
They are your garments,
and you are their garments. Look at the
closeness that we should have with one another
as spouses.
And why if I desire something halal, the
alamid halal, and my wife may be shy
or she don't have the experience or she
didn't hear about this. Why can't they just
hug her a little bit and tell her,
listen, honey, this let's let's do this. Let's
try this. Why not? It's absolutely okay and
healthy.
So as, of course, we don't go into
the vulgar part of * because this is
the problem now. * became became the primary
sexual indication for homes. I was going to
ask about that. And so the disgusting things,
the bizarre things are also at home. Wallahi,
sister,
Yani, I didn't take your permission to, tell
you about the stories
that I receive on almost daily basis that
happened in our homes, Muslim homes.
Wallahi, you said in the beginning when you
said I was shocked I'm shocked about the
10 year
statistic,
I was holding my lap because I'm no
longer shocked by this. This is the least.
Wallahi says that if I told you what
happened
in certain Muslim countries,
* on a high on on the highway
handcuff the sister and putting her in a
trunk and driving her to a desert and
* her because he's doing that role play
that he had seen in *.
A friend of ours was sent to jail
for one and a half years
because he was almost going to * a
girl on a school campus in the middle
of the day as a result of his
addiction to *.
So there are countries who banned * completely
because they recognize it to be one of
the primary reasons for violence against women,
whether these women are wives or women in
general.
And we're still ashamed and shy to open
our mouth and talk about it. I I
can't really,
understand.
Is there a link
between
* in general
and violence against women or sexual violence?
Absolutely. There is no question.
88%.
And this research, Allah, if you told me
that you will address this point, I would
have broke the book and show the people
from a non Muslim resources,
sources.
88%
of the of the scenes, not the the
films
of the scenes
of modern day *. 88%
contain
mostly
aggression
against women. Yeah. Now our children, when they
come across these websites,
there is no warning. Listen. This is this
is an act.
We're just acting.
We're not doing anything to harm the we
are all okay or alright. Everything is real.
Everything is depict depicted as if this is
sexual intimacy.
What do we get? What the consumer get?
That when I get married if if I
if I'm unmarried when I get married, this
is how I'm gonna treat my wife. I'm
gonna smack her. I'm gonna pull her. We
received the case in the middle of the
night, a sister with a broken neck
because her husband pulled her hair during sexual
intimacy.
Her neck was broken. She was nearly
going to die.
The smacking, the slapping, the spitting,
the bad words and so on and so
forth. Even
haram, sexual intimacy that Allah prohibited between husband
and wife is happening as a result of
this sexual education.
Worst of all, a husband will force his
wife to watch
and tell her it's halal to watch with
me because I'm your husband. Look at the
film. Heard somebody saying I've heard this
before, actually, where, you know, husbands kind of
introduce More more color than anything. Is to
is it like a grooming? Is it is
it to kind of get her,
you know, used to it so that they
can also enjoy in the same way? Or
what's
It's just * turn you into a sick
person system. Simple.
You become sick. You become someone that who
you're not. And and the the
the the the the good thing I'm not
sure if this is good or bad, but
the the thing is that those men
are aware that what they're doing is wrong.
Mhmm.
Mhmm. But they are just led by their
addiction. And if you don't admit that you're
addicted,
if you can't
see that,
the * is interfering in almost all,
aspects of your life. If you don't mind,
sister, I'm gonna show you just,
this was my latest book, Aware, Find Out
Who You Are Without *.
And in it, I have 12 chapters. Alright.
Quickly, just when I drafted this,
I my goal was I wanted to
portray the impact of * on different areas
of our lives. So I started with
children without *, teens without *, relationships,
*, health,
productivity,
career, mental health, brain,
the physical brain,
real men, masculinity that they've been talking about,
womanhood,
and faith. Even faith is being effective. Why?
I'll tell you something. Do you know that
atheism
among Muslims are now on the rise as
a result of *
in many cultures?
Why? Because we've been repenting. Every time we
we slip and relapse,
we go back and repent. Then 3 days
later, 4 days later, we fall back again.
Why Allah are not changing me? I repented
already. Once, twice, twice. I've been in that
cycle for years.
You're not listening. There's no God.
Really? Look at this.
They don't understand that addiction is
is severe. It's something that is so
compulsive,
so addictive, and it it will it will
just ride you. It will ride you and
direct you to where
you have already, you know, directed it. That's
why
if you if you go through,
any of the 12 steps recovery of, Alcoholic
Anonymous and and see, the first step is
that we are powerless
over our addiction, which means we need someone
else
to assist us in that journey. No one
addicted to anything would be able to recover
on his or her own. That's to answer
your question in the beginning. What the wife
can do,
or is it something individual? No. It's not.
* is no longer a problem that affects
the individuals anymore. Walay, this morning,
a very respected chef contacted me and said
that there is a wife left the house
now because the husband committed adultery. And that
husband contacted me afterwards. Brother, help me and
help my wife to to get back and
help me with this addiction and so on
and so forth. So I contacted the wife.
I told her sister,
you'll never get well unless you are his
accountability
partner, meaning you are part of this recovery.
Mhmm. So there are white sister to be
honest, there are whites who are willing to
take that, journey. There is even a book
called love you, hate the *
Yes. Written by a non Muslim, again,
lady who discovered this addiction of her husband.
And in the beginning, of course, the shock,
the betrayal,
you know, what's wrong with me? You know,
what have I done to deserve this?
But at the end, she reached to that
conclusion. And how did she reach the conclusion
that she need to help her husband? Education.
It's not about me cheating on you.
I'm not cheating on you. I'm addicted. You
see, there's a difference. You. It's is it
is it something that we should be thinking
about?
You know, as as a woman,
it's not about me.
It's it's not about me. It's not, It's
never. It's never. It is me or being.
Being enough or doing enough or or any
of that. There's something else happening here.
It's never been about
the wife. Never.
But there is no any research that I've
read that says that because the ladies are
not trying to satisfy their husband sexually, they
go to *. Never. Most likely, he's been
addicted to * years before he even met
him. Most likely.
Mhmm. Most cases.
The the main reason, as I mentioned, is
the buffet is too much
too much on the table. Yeah. And so
you became someone
that boring to
him. Yeah. That's what he created. He created
that. So in order for him to recover,
now you need to be always
there for him sexually, mentally, emotionally, and so
on. As you are, don't turn yourself into
a * star, sisters.
Our sisters now outpawn the * stars. This
is the thing. We cannot out pawn the
* stars.
Sisters,
some some sisters I I know I receive
a lot of events. They they go watch
* to learn what these things, you know,
what what women are doing so that they
can help their husbands.
Wow. But that's not the solution at all.
Even then, even if you do this, they
will not be pleased or satisfied
because addiction again in the brain. So you
need to,
you know, bear with patients for at least
minimum a year.
Mhmm. And, if the husband is really sincere,
he will be willing to give up his
cell phones, passwords,
all these restrictions of all
kind
so that he can come out of this
maze safely after a few years a few
months. Some people will be healed in 3,
4 months. Some people will be healed after
a year or or so. Either way,
it's worth the attempt because you've already wasted
many, many years in your misery.
Now it's time at least to
spend a quality time to get out of
this, cycle because it will never end. You
would if you are thinking that you can
end it on your own, you are lying
to yourself.
SubhanAllah.
So talk us through the recovery.
Somebody realizes they have an addiction. Anybody out
there, any of the viewers,
anyone who's married to somebody who has a
child? And we're gonna talk about children insha'Allah.
But talk us through the steps of of
recovery. What is it that you you help
people through? What do you advise for people
to do?
Alright. So, as I mentioned, sister, I've been
into this research for
quite some time to an extent that, when
I was in Malaysia, they introduced me as
the the chronologist in the Muslim world. So
that's Wow. I love I kind of love
them, but I kinda don't. I mean, if
that makes sense. But You should you should
have that on your on your We'll put
that in the description. Thumbnail.
So the point is that that
we went through a lot of research, a
lot of recovery programs here and there from
Muslims, from non Muslims. And I came to
the conclusion, I became more than convinced
that the only program that really works 100%
of the time, at least with me at
the AWARE Academy,
is a program called the critical
alignment
model. And this is this is the main
program now at the Aware Academy. We train
even coaches on how to master it and
how to help clients to cope with their
addiction. Basically, it it it it is cons
consists of 4 stages. Number 1 is environment.
Design the environment in a way, any environment,
online environment or on-site,
your homes, your work, wherever you go, the
things that you
often visit and so on. Design it in
a way that it should be conducive to
demand driven activities,
conducive to learning, conducive to productivity, whatever you
wanted to achieve in life. Your environment must
be designed
in that way. And I always give the
example of my room. So if, sister Naima
Roberts was invited to my home and she
came to this room, what would you do?
The first thing.
I'm going to show you the right way.
You will pick a book and flip through
them because the environment encourages you to do
that. And and this is a whole week.
We work on with our clients for 1
whole week to design the environment.
Part of the environment also is to filter
these
devices.
There are plenty of resources
out there, but are you willing to restrict
yourself? So people will call me. They want
those magical pills. It's not gonna
work. You have to restrict
yourself. You know, your life is valuable. One
of the main objectives of the sharia is
to protect your life,
and *
basically is snatching your life away.
So you have to restrict yourself in order
for you to experience that freedom. So filters
that will block any *, any nonsense.
Filters or softwares that has accountability partners so
your wife can actually monitor
your behavior online. There are mirroring now mirroring
softwares that, your wife can at any time
access your your your phones.
There's no privacy now. There's no pri don't
talk to me about privacy. Right. Okay. There's
no privacy. Basically, I don't believe in privacy
between husband and wife. Like, what kind of
privacy that would occur between husband and wife?
So all this nonsense should should,
come to an end. So this is the
first stage we teach. 2nd is something called,
structure
system,
the do's and don'ts that govern our lives
as Muslims. What are the things that if
you, you know, that you know that if
you did,
most likely you would slip, most likely you
relapse.
Is it YouTube videos? We don't want YouTube.
Is it Netflix shows?
We don't want Netflix.
Is it, the shopping centers? Is it that
cousin? Is it that brother, that sister, that
those friends all catalysts and the triggers, basically,
from the environment. Absolutely. Yeah.
There's
a a score who always say to avoid
the trigger,
and you would avoid the activity. Simple. Avoid
the queue that will always bring you back
to square 1, and you will basically avoid
the action itself.
Mhmm.
So this number 2. Number 3 is the
art of implementation or consistency or
as taught in Islam, and, we go through
this also for 1 week. This is the
most difficult part because it's a theory based,
concept.
Everyone
hope and wish to be consistent, in what
they do, but we always fall short. But,
again, there are many,
you know, advice and, and tips practical tips
that we give throughout,
this week that can help. And then we
end
the whole,
program by the 4th,
part, and that is involving
people in that journey.
So now you have an environment. Those people
will watch this environment and remind you that,
hey. Hey. This is wrong. This is good.
Structure, we will also watch the do's and
the don'ts and remind you of what you
have agreed upon and so on.
Implementation, they will be your aid because even
even us as
as people
accept what what we do. But even us,
we fall short. Sometimes we are lazy to
record a video. Sometimes
we are lazy to go to the masjid.
Sometimes we are lazy to do this and
do that. And who would be helpful here?
Your husband, your wife, to push you, to
remind you. No. No. Let's do it together.
Let's you know, we need that's why jama'ah,
the concept of jama'ah and the reward of
doing things together
in Islam is multiplied
as a result of the the benefits that
we gain when we do things together. So
this program collectively,
sister, if if all these four angles are
aligned with who we are
as believers,
well, there's no way. I always give example
that if you are in the Kaaba, will
you will you watch *?
If you're in the Masjid alone,
will you masturbate? Will you take your phone?
Off? 99.9%.
Some people will pause and think and a
little bit. Majority say no. Of course not.
Why? Because the environment force you to do
something different.
So this is the most practical, program.
We have a very high rate of success
with clients with also married couples
who have gone through this system.
And, we ask Allah
to use us to benefit the Ummah in
this, area now. Amin.
Amin. Amin. Summa. Amin. And, guys, the all
the,
the links will be in the description. Definitely,
check out the work. And, you know, if
you know anyone or you yourself are struggling,
please don't feel like you're alone or that
there is no help out there because there
is, masha'Allah.
May Allah allow you to continue to do
this work.
I say that obviously our goal is that
your work will no longer be needed one
day. But until we get there,
may Allah fortify you and allow you to
help even more people. I mean Yeah. You
know, just like for mentioning this,
* will never cease to exist. We have
to understand this. *,
the websites will increase. Things will even go
beyond your imagination. You know? I didn't mention
about the VR.
The VR now. There are VR now on,
You know? May Allah protect us all. The
point is,
how can we exist
in the middle of all these crises safely
Yeah. Yeah. True. Without without,
you know, drifting away from the path that
Allah had intended. Mhmm. That's the key.
You know, how I always tell my students,
the challenge
is not to pray.
The challenge is to pray on time.
The challenge is not to pray. Praying, if
you wanna pray 5 times all at once,
you can do it quickly and that's it,
and you are free the whole day. But
that's not the challenge.
Allah wanted to test our level of commitment
to him by waking us up very early
in the morning and so on and so
forth. Similarly, the challenge is not to live
in this duniya without
challenges,
without difficulties, without temptations.
Mhmm. Do people think we'll be they will
be left
just because they say we believe without being
tested?
So part of the package is to live
within these challenges
and remain
safe, secured, and faithful.
May Allah protect itself.
Amen.
What about our children?
Those of us who have children, who want
to have children,
boys, girls,
what advice do you have for parents,
in navigating this space where, as you say,
most of our children, unfortunately, are online now?
Whether it's to do with school, whether it's
to do they have to have a phone
or an iPad.
You know, what is your practical advice to
parents
with regards to this issue of *?
Number 1,
buy an agreement. Bring your children on, you
know, one one night. Guys, I love you.
I trust you so much, but we need
to filter all our devices, including your devices.
I have here, on this phone, and we
have here a modem in in this office
that runs all our devices. It's called Family
Zone. That system filters any nonsense
on its own, and you don't have to
do the hassle. Family zone, there is covenant
eyes. So number 1 is protect these devices.
Protect your Internet.
We need Internet. I never go with those
people who say Internet is Haram, shaitan, and
so on.
We need it, and it it becomes part
of our, you know, daily
life. So we can't just say no. Quit
Internet.
We can use it, and there are, as
you mentioned, many help out there, many systems
that can help you do the the magic
on its own.
So number 1, filter that, but always advise
the children. Always talk to them. Don't just
go and impose it because that can create
also an opposite effect.
Number 2, talk to them about the harmful
impact of *, and don't be shy. In
the beginning, it would seem awkward.
I agree. I have tried it. But after
that, it becomes very normal. The conversation becomes
normal. I'm not talking about that. And *
is not normal.
The conversation around the harms, the conversation about
anything else. Like, when I mentioned to my
son just couple of weeks ago,
he's 14.
I can notice now the changes in his
voice. I can chain notice, this and that.
So I had a duty upon myself,
you know,
to to educate him if he had reached
the age of pew puberty,
how to bathe, how to do this, how
to do that. And I I had to
go through this hassle.
And
because we've been talking about the harms of
*, the harms of inappropriate images for years.
He's 14. Mhmm.
And I've been talking to them long way
back,
you know, when they were younger than this.
The conversation wasn't so awkward. It was still
that he was a bit shy, but it
wasn't as awkward as a,
thought it would be. So number 1, protect
your devices.
Number 2,
constant conversation with your children about the harms.
Constant,
also,
assurance that if something go wrong, don't worry.
We'll be there for you. It's our job
as parents to clean the mess.
It's our job to clean your mess, so
don't worry.
If something go wrong, nobody will call you.
Nobody will slap you. Nobody will kick you.
We will sit and talk about it and
and and find a solution. So these are
the 2 things. But to bury our head
in the sand and say not my kids,
anyone but my kids,
then you are, you know, fooling yourself because
there is a scholar named Christian Jenson who
wrote very,
very famous book, actually. Two books under the
same title called,
good picture
good pictures, bad pictures.
So one book was written for younger children.
The others were for senior. And she said
a time has come already where the question
of whether my children will will access *
or not doesn't exist.
The question rather should be when.
It's just a matter of time before they
come across these things. And you never know
if you didn't now
design your environment to be very, very safe
for these conversation.
When they see these things, they will never
come and tell you. They have seen something
awful online.
Come and clean up, you know, this this
website for me. Something pop up.
There are games games. Your children playing games,
I assume.
There are games that actually send these messages,
pop up messages,
very innocent, teddy bear or whatever. You click
on it. It's *.
And and,
there was
parents who have this experiment
that they saw
their daughters who was 3 or 4 years
with an iPad, and these games pop up,
these links, and they click on it. She
click on it, and *,
popped up on her,
iPad. They took the iPad, and they tried
it themselves.
These things never pop
up. Same game.
And when they give it to the child,
again, it popped up. So they said that,
actually, there are some kind of sensory
that these,
* sites are using to actually target kids
because they know that if you get if
they get you addicted now,
that's it. You are their customer for the
rest of your life.
Yeah.
This is the same marketing strategy, Sista. When
you go to the shopping center
and you go through these aisles and you
know, you notice something very strange.
The, the things that are meant for kids
are always in the lower racks.
You know, those,
cornflakes
cornflakes and these things that have images and
stuff like that. We put it, you know,
on the law to get the kids,
you know, exposed to it, and and as
a result, that becomes addiction to the kids.
Whether, again, we agree it's healthy or not,
doesn't matter. But the point is, this is
the strategy
that * industry is using
to bring you to this path so that
one day, you can open your pocket or
give hand over your credit card and start
purchasing these things because they are endless. Addiction
is never enough.
It always escalates. You always want more. And
the more you you get, the more you
want more. May Allah protect us all. So
always maintain this,
conversation.
Always advise the kids
to, to report if something go wrong. Always
assure them that there will be
decent conversation,
education
instead of scolding
and so on. Inshallah, they will,
they will get out of this safe.
I think, you know, sort of to wrap
up in a way
with, obviously, all the online *,
*
kind of blowing up.
I think that that happened since last year.
And
it's almost like the democratization of *, isn't
it? It's, you know, anybody can be a
* star. And I think even some of
the sites say that these are the most
popular ones.
And Instagram is now allowing adult only content.
And, you know, many of our young people
are on Instagram.
And I wonder whether
there is a conversation
to have with your children
where
* is okay,
but this isn't?
Because it feels like you know?
I don't know. How how do you reconcile
that? You know?
When They need to know what is they
need to, of course, do you know? How
do you how do you
make make the distinction, I guess, between
what was created
and what is halal and what is tayib
and what is good
and what is is not good and what
is harmful. How do you make that distinction?
I remember
my daughter now is 18, and I, I
remember when she was 13 or even younger.
I told her, listen. If you fall in
love, come and talk to me, and I
will facilitate anything you want. And she was
giggling at that time. But I kept talking
about this every almost every 2, 3 weeks,
every month, every, you know, telling her that,
listen. Even if you wanna get married early,
no problem. I will help you. All my
money,
whatever I own, doesn't matter. I would go
bankrupt. Doesn't doesn't matter
so long as you
you spoke to your daughter at 13 about
falling in love. I know some parents will
take you to defend you at the stake.
I was called I was called sick by
one of the mothers that I talked to,
San Antonio.
Yeah.
She told me you're sick.
And I get that. I get that because
I, myself, I have observed these things growing
up, seeing that these things were forbidden. And
it's like haram talking about it. Even sister,
I I was married prior to my current
wife in Egypt.
And,
on the wedding night, I was talking to
my father.
I I said, listen. I'm now
grown up. I'm getting married, and and I
was 21 years at that time. And I
told my father, like, you know,
and he told us that we we were
very, very mischievous
growing up, but the one thing that my
father scared us from the most was Zena.
Right. That's why we we fooled around everywhere,
but Zena was the thing that will
make us run away. Yeah.
So I told my father that, you know,
I'm getting married, like, you know, tell me
a few things about this relationship.
So he looked at me like this. You
know? And his eyes always was going to
pop up. Son Oh my god. Don't talk
about this. And he became angry, and I
was like you know, I felt like, oh,
wow. This is something Wow. Shameful.
As a result, where where where will I
go?
So there was no conversation. I'm sorry. I'm
just
being nosy here now. So there was in
your upbringing and in the the cultural milieu,
there was No. No. The cultural didn't allow
that as well. This
culture didn't allow it at all. This. No.
No. No. Didn't allow that at all. It's
Aye. The word Aye means inappropriate. Mom. Yeah.
Yeah.
Wrong.
And
they tell you that
you you don't talk to your elders about
it. So where do I go then? I'll
go to my friends. Right. And my friends
will be saying into * as well. Okay.
Yes. And my friends will will, of course,
say, oh, take that site or take that
tape or that they will teach you. And
that's how
our the entire generation.
And I I assume
with very few exceptions.
Janie. I don't wanna say without any exception,
but with very few
exceptions
who were spared from, going into these,
these sites and these, you know, through these
tapes back in the nineties. The education. Why?
Because we don't have a conversation around it.
Yeah.
So I think open up a conversation
that's healthy and,
and teach you. So, the reason why I
mentioned about my daughter is that I I
opened up. And as a result, now she's
getting engaged at the the age of 18.
She's in the 1st year uni Gotcha. And
everything is being done in an appropriate Islamic
manner. She can talk to the boy, but
in a in a group that we created.
So we we we can monitor the conversation
so that they don't slip into I love
you, I love you too, and all these
emotions start getting, you know, generated as a
result in that in the peak of their
youth at at that, they can slip and
do haram. Mhmm. Mhmm. So the reason why
it didn't happen,
protect our children all the hour because I
I told my daughter, just don't do.
Anything you want, I'll I'll do it. I'll
wedding, I will do this, I will do
that. You know, if the the boy is
in a different country, we will go there.
No problem.
Whatever you want,
I will never interfere in your choice. I'll
give you advice.
I'll tell you this is my opinion, but
I will never force you to man against
your will
provided that you never fool around behind my
back. That's the only condition.
So be open, parents. I think the time
the time has come to realize that the
way how we were raised is not going
to work with our children. We have to
admit
it's not going to happen.
You mentioned Instagram.
Our children themselves are turning into * stars
on these social media platforms, and you parents
have no clue that this with this phone,
they they they video themselves. They send it.
And if it's not on TikTok or they
are sending it to,
their boyfriends and their girlfriends, and their,
cybersex is happening on a higher rate that
has never experienced in history.
Mhmm.
Why? Because of the advancement of the technology,
the iPhones and the Samsung
and all these devices that made made things,
easy. You you can have a studio on
your
bedroom
at will.
Yeah.
So we have to talk, and we have
to have policies in place. Like, I have
a policy
here that made my life much easier. No
cell phones, no Internet devices in bedrooms ever.
Internet has to be used. Devices must be
used in a specific location.
Time
is also important, not just because I brought
you a phone or I bought you this
and you use it 247?
No.
You have
time. On on the weekend, we have specific
time, and I bought a kitchen timer for
each of my, to my kids.
Time in, time out.
Just as simple as that. So we have
agreement,
and sometimes I give them bonus. Sometimes, okay,
take 30 minutes external. Probably did great at
school and so on. Soon as there is
an ongoing conversation and always always I always
assure them that, hey. It's not about you.
I trust you. I love you, but I
don't trust the world out there.
Mhmm. And I just need to protect you.
I hope you understand this. And you will
you will realize this later on in life.
Maybe you you you feel annoyed now, but
later in life, you appreciate.
My son I always tell my son, be
careful if you if you come across these
sites. You may not be able to get
married in the future.
Your wife will look at you and say
you are shame, you know, you are shame
on men, and and and she will, you
know, scold you because she have needs. Because
these things lead to these things. And give
them my book. My book is written about
these things. Read what I what I'm teaching
people out there. Yeah. People are paying me
money sometimes to, you know, to help them,
to spend with them qualities and to get
them out of that misery. You don't need
to go down that path. So the point
is,
constant conversation, not just one offer. Alhamdulillah. I
did it. I told you Done with that.
Alhamdulillah.
Take that off the list. Done with it.
Job done. It's an ongoing
it's an ongoing thing. Masha'Allah.
I hope that we'll be able to have
you back again, Insha'Allah, maybe to do a
live livestream or a q and a. I
know after. Masha'Allah, after people watch this, they're
gonna have so many questions
about the the * side of things, but
also just the, the child rearing. I think
that side of things was really interesting to
me. Well, my sister, I was, hoping, Yani,
maybe, if you if you don't wanna this
on record, you can also remove it in
the editing. But if you if you wanna,
come up with, like, a series of subjects
related to this issue,
and and and go live or record it
and post it at at your will, you
can also
because the topic is really
so broader than what we just discussed, Paul.
Yeah. We will
we'll cut that out. But,
definitely, I have an idea to do,
Saturday night live,
live streams
with guests and where people can come ask
questions in the chat, come on to the
live stream to be part of the conversation.
But about these types of kind of hot
button issues that, you know, are really, really
important in the community.
So so let's let's wrap up then the
the official conversation, insha'Allah. So I guess after
Brother Wael, it's been such a pleasure to
have you on the show and to have
this conversation with you. I know that it's
been so helpful
for for for me, for everybody else listening.
Masha'Allah.
Where can people find you, and how can
they find out more information about the Aware
Academy?
Australia, Perth.
Oh, nice.
Come down here. Beautiful, Marshall.
We we have this Aware Academy,
platform now that this is where I'm mostly
focused on. So the website is
up, still we are still,
building. So if you find a few pages
that are a bit weird, can ignore that.
We're still working on it. But it's awareacademy.com.au.
Awareacademy.com.au.
And, the email is also info at awareacademy.com.au.
The email usually handled by myself. I only
forward emails
to coaches,
of course, with the permission of clients who
would like to see female coaches. Sometimes females
are also in trouble. So we have female
coaches from Sydney, from Pakistan, from,
I think Malaysia,
Philippines,
like, certified with the AWA Academy.
So, yeah, that's that's the the easiest way,
to reach out for help in children.
Excellent. And I think Of course, the YouTube
YouTube channel, if you want tips and tricks,
BAW Academy YouTube channel is also available for
me.
And I think you're Ibrahim
on Instagram.
Are you on any other platforms? Yeah. Twitter,
Facebook.
I never TikTok. So
just on these main ones.
May Allah reward you for everything that you're
doing. And, hopefully, we'll see you back again
soon, inshallah. I think we need to have
a follow-up,
I'm ready inshallah. Thank you so much for
actually the invitation, and I appreciate your effort.
May Allah bless you. May Allah accept it
from all of us.
Guys, listen.
If you
benefited from this conversation,
please,
do like the video, leave your comment, and
share this widely. I think that's one of
the most important things is is share this
because you don't know
who in your circle of friends really needs
to hear what we've been talking about today,
mashallah.
And you know subscribe to the channel because
we've got way more of these coming up
and I can't wait to share them with
you. Brother Wa'il, it's been a fantastic
time with you, and inshallah, we'll see you
again very soon on the channel.