Naima B. Robert – Muslims Wives Need to Wake Up! Honest conversation Umm Talha TMC2 E5
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It's so good to have you with us.
Thank you for inviting me.
I'm just really excited to dive into these
topics because I know that this is work
that you have been doing for a while
now. I know marriage is something that you're
really passionate about, and I've heard you speak
on it
before. I'm really looking forward to getting into
today's show, Insha'Allah.
I'd like to kick us off with the
question that has
been on my mind
and something I've been wondering about.
This is,
how does the Islamic model of marriage
differ from what we have learned
from popular culture,
from the media, you know, Hollywood, Bollywood songs,
etcetera.
How would you say the Islamic model differs
from what we've been taught?
It's a very, very good question, Naima, and
I think it's very relevant to,
our time
because we are affected by the society that
we live in. And what we see, what
we hear, what we're exposed to naturally has
an impact on our attitude,
our behavior,
our mindset,
and our expectation.
And I think
when we look around, we see in the
popular culture,
Bollywood, Hollywood, Lollywood,
you know, all the woods.
Lollywood.
Yeah. The the the idea of marriage has
changed over the years generation.
And what I tend to see in the
news, in documentaries,
and in different short stories that's out there,
it's actually feeding people certain
ways of thinking with regards to marriage.
And I think
it's lacking
this whole idea of being committed.
And commitment
is something that is key to the institution
of marriage.
I know
in the past, there was a taboo
of having a divorce,
but now we have moved to another extreme
where
any troubles happen,
we think, oh, I can't deal with him.
Or I'm not gonna
tolerate this. The thing is,
in every situation in life, there has to
be a level of
effort, commitment,
and struggle.
Whether that's students studying for GCSEs,
whether it's a businessman
trying to make profits.
He's not gonna just quit just because he's
facing a hurdle
or difficulty.
He's gonna make it work because he's committed.
A student who's struggling with
a levels or GCSEs
or degree, He doesn't think, oh my god.
This is too much. I'm gonna quit. If
he does,
what happens? In 5, 10 years' time, he
hasn't got a degree or he hasn't got
his a levels or GCSEs.
Similarly,
when we look at marriage
and if we
feel that, you know what, I'm going to
quit because it's too hard,
then you're not going to have a successful
marriage or long lasting marriage. Now
everything in life, we need to understand
that is meaningful,
beneficial,
is not gonna come with ease.
It's gonna require you to work for it.
People who are successful,
businessmen
or
successful,
say,
in their studies
or research, whatever
form of success you look at, if you
look into their life, you will see there's
a lot of sacrifice, hard work, commitment,
and priorities. So
Yeah. I think this is number one thing
that we are seeing in the popular culture,
lack of commitment
and
confusion of roles.
Oh, cool. Talk on it, sis. Talk on
it. Talk that talk. What is this about?
Me and my husband, we we we were
watching this program about home improvement. You know?
Like, when you do, like, the decoration, you
know, when you do, you know, like,
like, transformation of kitchen and, you know,
living room area. So there's this program on
BBC iplayer, and
the the designers always struggle with what the
man wants and what the woman wants.
And this particular episode, it was about the
kitchen extension.
And the kitchen was
the man's domain
in that particular episode.
So the woman is thinking, no. I just
want everything to be clean and tidy. And
he's like the chef.
And I thought to myself,
I wouldn't want my husband to really, like,
you know, have his say in the kitchen
because that that I feel is my area.
And I take pride in that because I
really like cooking, and Yeah. I like to
try different recipes. And, you know, this is
my area, you know, and I wouldn't like
not interference, but I wouldn't like, oh, you
know, certain, like, suggestion, do like this, do
like that.
I I would wanna design the area
the way I would see it fitting for
what I want to do, the food I
want to cook. Mhmm. So there was this,
like, confusion, this battling, and and I was
thinking to myself, like, you know,
that doesn't sound right. Why? Because
I just find when people step into different
roles,
just like in workplace,
there's there's chaos because nobody knows what they're
supposed to do and everyone's trying to interfere,
and there's no, like, clarity
of who is responsible what area.
So anyway, it was quite interesting to see
in the end they had to compromise and
that's the reality of life, you have to
compromise.
So I find there's a lot of confusion
of roles,
whereas,
Islamically,
or the guidelines that we have in our
deen
Yeah. There's a clear view
of what is to be desired for marriage
Mhmm. In terms of the vision for marriage.
What is the vision for marriage? What is
the goal? What is the purpose?
And
what are the responsibilities?
So
I love that. But what's the vision then?
What's the goal? What is the goal for
marriage Islamically? Okay. So let's go back to
what is the goal and purpose for
a individual
to be on this earth. So we have
to go back to basic. Yeah. As Muslim,
we are here for a purpose.
Mhmm. And our purpose is very clear, to
worship Allah. Full stop. Mhmm. Now everyone has
been given a role in terms of life.
They are born into family. They're born
into culture. They're born into a specific land
with language.
So Allah gives everyone a context.
Okay? Yes. And a culture. Yeah.
So in that,
we know marriage is a universal
thing everyone knows. Yeah? Yeah.
Now
when you look at marriage from Islamic lens,
marriage has purpose, and that is
to have a life partner who will help
you to worship Allah better. Yeah?
And
another thing is on a human level, it's
a companionship.
So when you look at the creation of
Adam, he
was created the first man on Earth. Well,
the first man in heaven.
He felt lonely, so Allah created Hawa
for him. Yeah. Sense of companionship.
Yeah. Now when you have somebody
as a
companion,
a companion
is there to share the load,
to share the moments,
to make things easy,
to give you pleasure,
to give you
company.
So the journey is made easy.
So consider
a road trip. When you go on a
road trip by yourself,
it's a bit scary, lonely. Sometimes it's a
bit difficult because you can't do everything by
yourself. Yeah. When you have a companion,
you have
time together.
You have ease because you're sharing the
load of the journey because journey is hard
by nature. Yeah. When you're a traveler, you
have so many, like, you know, difficulties and
obstacles, unexpected, you know, situation that Yeah.
Happens, isn't it? Yeah.
Now that partner is there to
make matters easy for you, to help you,
to support you,
to, you know, love you, to to give
you a sense of belonging. You know, when
we go back to the Maslow's hierarchy of
need. Yeah? Yeah.
Now
As
yeah.
So that companion
is there to
add value to your life,
if you know what I mean.
And that companion,
if he's a man,
there's a role.
If you're the woman or if he's a
woman,
there's a role. And those two role are
there to complement,
support each other, not to create conflict with
each other.
And the responsibility,
Allah has defined very clearly.
And those responsibility was is is supposed to
work in harmony.
Yeah. Yeah.
So
when you look at the reality of marriage,
now these responsibilities,
they're supposed to be working in harmony,
and there are certain things that are like,
you know what? It's up for negotiation.
Like, the details.
Yeah. You know, we say the devil's in
the details. The details, you negotiate.
But generally,
Allah says.
Live together
in goodness, in harmony,
in kindness.
Yeah.
And if there are things that you may
not like, and you will not like because
everyone has weaknesses and strength,
but
there are other things that you would like
and there are goodness. So therefore,
overlook. Yeah? Well, I just wanna just jump
in there because I think, you know, as
you were saying all these things, I think
it's, you know, beautiful the way that you've
set it out.
As you were saying all these things, it
makes so much sense. Right?
And I'm
I'm imagining somebody listening to you now
and saying, yeah. Well, I don't get that.
And and so there's 2 things here.
1 is
I wonder whether
whether it's as human beings or as women,
we tend to focus on what's not there
rather than what is there.
Or we tend to focus on
the way that we want things rather than
the way that we're getting them as they
are. So for example, as you said, someone
to
give you pleasure, to keep you company and
all of these types of things.
If a woman is in a space or
in a marriage, in a situation where she
doesn't feel like, you know, he doesn't pay
me enough attention. He works too hard. You
know, like we don't do x, y, z.
Of course, that may be the case,
but I also think that sometimes we actually
overlook the values that they do bring.
I'm saying this as somebody who has been
married
in a long term marriage, and
has also lived as a single parent.
I don't know whether you, you know, you
kind of followed my journey on this, but
I do think that
women who are married, especially to the father
of their children,
they underestimate
the value of being in that marriage because
maybe it doesn't tick certain boxes for them.
Right? But trust me,
you come out of that marriage, you're gonna
see something very different and you're gonna realize
this was all that he was doing. This
is all that he was bringing. This was
the impact of having him in the house,
etcetera, etcetera. I don't know. What are your
thoughts on that?
Naima,
this is my work in a nutshell
because I work with women in the community,
and I've been working with women on a
grass, you know, root level for the last
20 years.
Often, a typical scenario I would describe is
sisters would come to me and say, you
know, my husband doesn't do this, that, the
other.
And then I listen
attentively,
and then I point out. What about the
fact that he does this? What about he
does that? What about he does this? And
then
they kind of stop in their tracks and
they're like,
Yeah. You know, it's it's like a gentle
admission of
appreciation.
And then they go away thinking that because
I am trying to be, you know, the,
the voice of reason.
And and, subhanAllah, that changes their attitude.
And
if we take that discussion back to the
prophet sallallahu alaihi wa sallam where he
said about women to be grateful.
Gratitude is so, you know,
like, popular now, you know, because
we know grateful for our husbands.
No.
Like, in terms of, like, you know, this
whole thing about, know, like, self development, you
know, Muslims, non Muslims everywhere. Yeah. Attitude is
the best attitude and this and the other.
Yeah. But, subhanAllah,
in our deen, in our tradition,
what is most beloved to Allah Azzawajal? Alhamd,
isn't it? You know, praise.
Yeah. And then we have hadith like he
who does not show gratitude to the people,
he's not grateful to Allah, isn't it? Yeah.
And and one of the things that I
I try to encourage a lot
is the sense of being grateful to your
spouse,
being grateful to the people,
being grateful to your children.
This whole concept of gratitude gets more out
of the people because it is a positive
reinforcement.
It is. When we want something from someone,
you should give attention to that. Even if
it's little that they're giving, if you if
it's that they're doing, you know,
so hard in terms of impressing you, notice
it. Yeah. If you see that they're doing
so hard that, you know,
trying to pull their socks in doing,
like, in the housework or helping you out
or taking the children or doing
things that you we take for granted, but
we want them to take more of an
active role. Yeah. Give attention to that because
people, generally,
they perform better when they are acknowledged for
their performance.
Because they so much sense. It makes so
much sense. And, you know, you mentioned the
hadith about, you know,
well let's call it for what it is.
The hadith which mentions the majority in the
health fire being women because of the ingratitude
space for
brothers and sisters
to have a, you know, have an open
conversation.
And when I first heard a brother well,
recently heard a brother mentioning that hadith,
I felt some kind of way, you know,
because I was like, you know, not ungrateful.
But then now
I sit with it
and I listen to how
we have
sisters saying,
why should I be why should I feel
grateful for him doing something he's supposed to
do anyway?
Why should I feel grateful? I do this,
this, this, this.
In the context of somebody coming into your
life
and
taking some of the burden off you? Marrying
you? Being a stepdad to your kids or
whatever? Why should I feel grateful
that he chose to marry me?
And it's almost like, okay, we talk about
the importance of gratitude in the world, right?
Everyone's the power of gratitude.
But it's almost like,
I think it comes from the modern movement,
the feminist movement. But, you know, as a
woman, why should you be grateful? Because gratitude
comes from humility, doesn't it?
And we can't be humble because we're boss
babes out here. Yeah. You know what I
mean? Let me turn this around, Nana.
Consider yourself.
You you do the cooking or you do
the shopping or you do the teaching. Yeah?
Maybe you're a homeschooling mom or maybe you
are, you know, stay at home mom or
maybe you're a working mom.
Yeah. And somebody says, you know, I noticed
you you really take your time in doing
the cooking.
Although you have a busy schedule, you cook
nutritious meal. Yeah. They just point that out
to you. Don't you feel so chuffed? Don't
you feel so appreciated? Don't you feel so,
like, you know,
this sense of,
acknowledgment?
Yeah. Yeah. You know? Mhmm. And what does
that do to you in reality?
It means you wanna give more. Yes. It
does. Is isn't it? Yeah? It does. Your
your friend, you know, she she says to
you, you know, whenever I go through troubled
times, you're always there for me. She buys
you, you know, bunch of flour, chocolate, or
she even takes you out for a meal.
Do you feel like giving back to that
friend even more? You feel seen. Exactly.
Seen. Exactly.
If you are appreciated,
you want to give more. And this is
exactly what Allah says. He says,
Mhmm. If you are grateful, I will give
you more on the tongue of Musa alayhi.
That's the first sermon he gives to his
people because Bani
Israel, they were
on another level. Yeah. You know? Why? Because
gratitude
intrinsically draws people towards them. You know? If
you are grateful to some people,
then they would give you more because they
know that you are appreciative.
Yeah. And that appreciation,
you know, it it benefits
you. Why? Because you get more out of
that person. Mhmm. You know? And I think
that's the secret to marriage. If you want
your husband to more to do more things
for you,
be grateful because they will give you more.
You know? And, subhanAllah,
you know, sometime we have this culture in
our house and,
you know, whenever we have, you know, like,
say, a treat,
you know, and it's it's like an occasion.
So,
I would say to my husband, you know,
JazakAllah Khaylam. Because that meant I didn't have
to worry about the food side. Yeah. You
know? And it's, like, it it's it's it's
a real treat, you know, because, you know,
when we have to do the cooking, there's
cleaning, and there's, you know, obviously, tidying up
and things like that. But when you have
a treat, whether you go out or, you
know, get food in, that means, you know,
you can relax that
period of time and do other things that
you you you wanna do. Yeah. And then
I would hear my son. He would also
follow after me because he's seeing a culture
of, you know,
I shouldn't, you know, have this attitude. Well,
I always cook, so once in a while,
you know, he should that's not the
that's not the positive
attitude.
Of entitlement.
Nobody likes that. There. That's the e word
right there, entitlement. Yeah. Nobody. It's it's like
you you at work. When you say to
your boss, I just wanna say that, you
know, you're very understanding boss. You always give
us time off when we need to.
Do you think the boss will say no
when you want to have another time off?
This is game, sisters. Okay? I hope you're
listening to this. Because the boss would feel
obliged. They would feel like
this compassion to let you have the leave,
you know.
As long as, obviously, you don't abuse the
system,
but the point I'm trying to make is
when you acknowledge
people's graciousness
and people's
kindness,
they will give you more.
They will give you more.
We know they will because Allah says so.
Makes total sense. Because you would too, wouldn't
you? If, you know, if you were acknowledged
and when you are acknowledged for doing the
things that you're supposed to do
and someone says thank you or, you know,
they, they, they really enjoyed the meal or,
you know,
any kind of acknowledgment,
it makes you feel good about having done
what you did. Right? So it makes sense
to pay that forward, masha'Allah.
Exactly. And, you know, on the other side,
you know, say if you're managing people, you're
a, you know, employee,
you know, And you want best,
kind of service or performance from them as
a boss.
Because, you know,
as a founder of martial arts, I'm leading
a team of
6, 7 women.
And often, I have to delegate tasks because
I can't do everything. You know, I have
to delegate tasks.
And when I'm delegating, you know, I always
say thank you after saying, can you do
this? Can you do that? And, subhanAllah,
I must say, you know, people, you know,
they they
over time, I have observed
that we have progressed in in terms of
academically,
but socially, we have gone back. We don't
have the basic skills of, being with people
or people skills. We are lacking people skills
because, you know, dealing with people is not
the same as dealing with technology. It's it's
different. Technology, if you switch it on, switch
it off. With people,
you have to understand the temperaments, the mood,
the time, the space,
and you have to be sensitive to that,
you know, and you have to have
a level
of, say, empathy when you're dealing with people.
And I think people are lacking that and
that's why maybe there's a lot of discussion
about
emotional intelligence because we are not, you know,
in touch with the human side of
communication.
Technological
communication. Masha'Allah, you're there.
But when it comes down to dealing with
human, and that's what we need to pay
attention to.
The prophet says, he he was the best
of teachers, and he taught us how to
be with the people. When you're speaking to
people,
maybe they're going through a very, you know,
rough day. Maybe they are going through some
kind of loss. Maybe they are, you know,
going through some kind of financial stress.
So your tone has to adjust to the
temperament. Mhmm. Mhmm. And even what you say.
Yeah. And even what you say, SubhanAllah.
You know, you mentioned about, you know, technology.
So I'm wondering,
in your work or just in terms of
your observation,
what would you say
has been the impact of social media on
Muslims and Muslim marriages?
I think it's raised
an unrealistic
expectation
of what marriage should be like.
You see, when people see certain images,
they're only seeing one aspect of
that story.
Yeah? Maybe it's a superficial aspect of that
story or that marriage or that relationship.
So they're thinking,
well, my life doesn't look like this. But
what they don't realize is probably taken that
couple couple of takes before they got that
final Quick shot. Yeah.
Yeah. So
I think that is creating
a,
like, a
like a it's like a fantasy. You know?
Like, you know, my marriage, you know, should
be like this, or it's not like this.
You know? And it's kind of making us
look down on what we have in our
relationship,
and that's very unhealthy. Why? Because
we know in our tradition,
you know, we should always look to people
who have lesser than us Mhmm. Not more
than us. Why? Because when we look at
people who have lesser than us, in
in inevitably, it can make us grateful. But
when we always look at people who have
things that we don't have,
what's gonna
do what's that going to do to us?
It's going to make us feel ungrateful.
And then because we're always seeing people having
more than us or better than us supposedly
supposedly.
Yeah?
But when you look closely,
the reality is quite different because, you know,
we often think
the grass is green on the other side.
But the reality is the truth is the
grass is green wherever you water it.
Boom.
Yeah. 100%.
So what are the biggest issues that you're
seeing then?
Over the last 5 years, what have been
the biggest
issues facing
my life?
In a nutshell, it's a commitment issue. Mhmm.
There is a lack of commitment,
but I think we see certain symptoms.
And that could be that people
think
finance is causing problem to their marriage, and
it is. It does contribute.
People think it's the in laws,
especially where I'm from. Sub you know, like,
say, Southeast Asian countries.
People think it's,
you know,
say,
being too
busy in life, not making time for each
other.
You see, all of these things
can be sorted out if the commitment is
there.
Yeah. People may blame,
you know, he doesn't do his roles and
responsibility,
and he's not taking marriage, you know, seriously.
He's not contributing.
These are the common complaints. So if I
was to categorize them, there is obviously responsibility,
there is finance, there is infidelity,
There is in laws.
Mhmm.
And these things,
obviously,
they
don't come about just like that. There are
telltale signs.
And I think if people
had commitment
Mhmm.
And then they made an effort
to be on the same page with their
opposite gender,
then these telltale star signs, they will be
able to spot early on.
Right. And and I think what people don't
realize,
and this is something that I have said
to quite a few people, is
before
a couple
separate
physically,
they separate
emotionally.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Now
one of your question was the thing about
midlife crisis
and invoices happening around that time.
Now I had to really think about this
point because I was thinking midlife crisis, supposedly,
if you look it up, is from the
age of 40 to 63 or 64.
I couldn't help but think about
how the prophet,
he got nabua at the age of 40.
And he lived until the age of 63.
10 years in,
Makkad, you know, 13. Altogether,
he had 23 years for
spreading
Yes. Islam. Yeah. And I was thinking,
Islam gives a very clear
vision
for that midlife
mission.
Yeah. Not crisis, mission.
Mhmm. Midlife mission. I like that. Yeah. Why?
Because that is the time
where you're really,
at the final, like, sprint of your, say,
race or journey. You know, when that horse
is about to end the journey, it goes
faster. It it really, you know, goes for
it. Why?
Because
your life
matters how it ends
more than how it begins.
Be because, you know,
the way you end your life, that's
a good indication of how your afterlife will
begin.
Mhmm.
Isn't it? So
for us as Muslims, when we are hitting
that point,
we should be thinking, okay. How can I
raise the bar?
Because,
you know, the lifespan of the Muslim community
is,
what, 64, 65?
The prophet said, you know, it's in the
sixties.
This is not the time to be experimenting
and figuring out and having your, like, you
know, say,
tantrums or doing whatever you want to do.
No. This is a time to think, okay,
I need to focus. This is a time
of focus, and hence why Nobua came at
that time because it's a time of balaga'ashudda,
maturity,
you
know. But
when I was looking into this question because
I was thinking, okay, so why does this
trend of midlife, you know, crisis come, come
about and how to avoid it, you know?
So I was doing a bit of research
to understand what do they say, you know.
And subhanAllah, what I was thinking is that
as a believer, as a human being,
we have to live our life
to the best of our ability
irrespective
of the age that we're in. So we
see that in the seal of the prophet
system. The prophet system would
nurture and empower and encourage young Sahaba,
young as 13, Abdu'lai bin Abbas, you know,
the famous hadith
where he was riding behind him and he
was saying to him,
be mindful of Allah, and,
you know, you would find Allah
supporting you. That long hadith, in 40 hadith.
And then we find
he advised
older companions
and rich companions,
mature companions.
What does that show us? It shows us
that whatever age you're at, you still have
to be striving for excellence.
Yeah? This is okay. Does I wanna jump
in. I wanna jump in because this is
really important.
And why I'm jumping in is because
the trend in
this context
is
women getting to this stage and
feeling like,
this is not what I want for the
rest of my life.'
We love each other,
but we're not in love.
Or
I love him like a friend.
We're roommates.
Maybe the children are growing, maybe they've grown.
I'm saying this based on so many sisters
getting in touch and even there have been
some shows about it,
some YouTube
series where they've discussed this
phenomenon of
couples
just apparently couples, but I suspect it's mainly
the women because
the women are the ones in general with
the higher expectations
of the relationship. Right? I think most men,
if they're comfortable,
they'll stay.
It doesn't have to be 5 stars. It
doesn't have to be amazing. It doesn't have
to be exciting. It doesn't have to be
something new. As long as they're they're okay,
they will pretty much stay. And I I
don't know whether you've seen this, but this
is and and it's it's sometimes been surprising
because it's like, well, how can you be
happy with this? This is where the woman
is saying, well, you know, we hardly do
this. We don't do that anymore. You know,
we're not this anymore. We're not that anymore.
Like, aren't you unhappy? As unhappy as I
am? And he's like,
I'm fine.
We're okay.
Anyway,
the context of this is a conversation that
was had about divorce
in the Muslim community.
And not necessarily divorce based on
toxic relationships or bad things happening,
but couples just growing apart.
Or the woman feeling she's outgrown the husband
or she's outgrown that marriage.
And that's happening a lot in the Muslim
community now in this generation where I have
women messaging me saying,
you know, my husband
is a good man,
but I feel I've outgrown him. I'm doing
this now, I'm doing that now, I'm doing
this, I'm doing that and he doesn't want
to do those things with me and he
doesn't have a growth mindset.
So I feel like I can't grow with
him anymore. I feel stifled and all of
this stuff. I don't know. Maybe you haven't
seen it in your practice, but
it's definitely something that's happening in our generation.
So do you have any thoughts on that?
You know,
it's it's, you know,
interesting you're saying that because
there is a change in mindset with regards
to marriage, and I,
have seen the attitude of, you know, well,
I don't love him anymore, or I'm not
on the same page, or we're not doing
things together.
I hear what you're saying, but what I'm
trying to say is that
your journey and your aspiration
doesn't have to be shared by your husband.
It's an important point to make sense. Yes.
It's an important point. You need to say
that. The thing is
you are an individual. You have your own
hopes. You have your own dreams. You need
to separate that from your relationship,
your parenting. You see,
when we look at ourself, we need to
look at different areas of our life. You
know? Our professional, our personal, our relationship,
our community,
and then our spiritual,
where we are with Allah, azza wa jal.
You know? Where we are with
our, say, self care. So the the different
areas. The thing is here, we have this,
idealistic
idea that we want
everything
to kind of be together. It's not. Sometime
your children won't be in the same page
with regards to your nutritious
ideals.
It's okay.
Sometime, you know, your extended families will not
share the same,
like, taste in makeup or your dress code.
It's okay.
You might like certain things more flamboyant than
others. That's fine. That's your taste.
That's your passion.
No one has to share your passion. You
know? It's fine. The thing is when people
say that we are growing apart
here's the thing.
Any relationship, you will fall apart if you
don't make that conscious effort of being together.
If you're not sleeping together,
if you're not eating together, if you're not,
you know, going out together, if you're not
converse
having conversation together, of course, you're gonna fall
apart. Yeah. Of course.
You know? The the thing is
relationship,
intimacy doesn't happen in, like, you know, in
void. In a vacuum. In a vacuum.
You have to make time, effort,
and conscious
commitment that you're gonna spend time, you're gonna
eat together, you're gonna go out together.
And that togetherness
brings the heart together. That's why, subhanAllah, there's
a lot of emphasis on you know, sitting
together, being together. And I don't mean just
2 bodies
on the phone. That's not togetherness.
You're physically
in one space, but you're emotionally,
mentally, you're in 2 different worlds.
That's not togetherness.