Naima B. Robert – Muslims and Marriage Social media, Second Wives and The Haram Love Story TMC Ep. 7 Part 2!
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Welcome to the marriage conversation with Naima b
Robert. And tonight, my guest is profoundly interesting.
They want families.
They want connection.
His style is a little bit provocative.
The Muslim mistress issue is real. Brother Nasir
Al Amin, assalamu alaikum.
So there's 2 things here. 1 is
this kind of it's so funny because as
Muslims,
we came from traditional Muslim cultures
where education for girls would definitely have ended
at a certain age. And the priority would
have been marriage and the priority would have
been preparing girls for marriage. I didn't know
cap, like that's exactly what was happening. India,
Pakistan,
Somalia, Bangladesh, Nigeria, that's that's because across the
world,
traditional societies
had a, had a priority in mind. The
priority was
getting
children
ready for adulthood.
Men's adulthood looked one way. Women's adulthood looked
a different way. And men would be ready
to take on the responsibilities of adulthood adulthood
slightly later.
Girls would be ready to take on the
responsibilities of adulthood earlier. Right? Because they can
have start having children from whenever,
from from after puberty, etcetera. So
that would have been
a maybe a generation or 2 ago.
Fast forward to today
and you look at
the Muslims who came to the west
and may have been educated themselves,
when they raised their children,
the focus was what?
Education.
Everyone knows.
Africans,
what they care about is education. Asians, what
they care about is education.
And the focus now becomes
education
and education for the boys and the girls.
What I've seen happening, which is really interesting
and kind of bizarre,
is that
due to this kind of push towards education
and getting your qualifications and moving up in
society really, I think that's really what it's
about. It's about
securing resources. Okay. Securing resources,
making sure that your daughter qualifies for someone
from a good family. And that good family
is looking for a girl with a degree.
So it's all the families
securing resources. Right? That's what's happening. In the
meantime,
the girls are not being trained to be
wives.
They're no longer being
taught to value
mothering,
wifeing,
homemaking, because that's not your focus. You have
to get a degree. That's your focus. Right?
So many girls, I know many girls, my
age, younger, grew up. Mom can cook, but
they can't.
Mom was a stay at home mom, but
they were never expected to do that. So
now we're in a situation where, you know,
we have a lot of girls and, and,
and, and boys slightly, but there's a slightly
different conversation to do with boys. But we
have girls basically who have not been brought
up
to see marriage as,
as something to aspire to.
It's something that's going to happen, right? Especially
in traditional Muslim communities. It's going to happen,
but it will happen at some point. You
know, if I look at like Egyptians, for
example, where I am in Egypt and maybe
even in the states as well,
they're not looking to marry you off at
18, 19, 20. No, You have to get
a degree and even better get a master's
as well. And then start working and earn
money and then we can get you somebody
who's at that level and you get a
nice big dowry and you buy your house
and you live the American dream. Right? So,
anyway, that's a long way of saying
we have drunk the Kool Aid.
And as a result of the Kool Aid,
we as
spikes Kool Aid. It's always spikes. The Kool
Aid is spiked. Historically, we know this. Right?
So so we've
exactly. So we've drunk the Kool Aid, and
now not only are our daughters kind of
being, being, you know, subconsciously
primed to be part of the work market
and be part of the workforce subconsciously,
but also
our prime years
when we have the options. What because this
conversation has been dominated by
talking about women who are
in terms of childbearing and marriage past their
prime. We're past our prime ladies.
Sorry to say I know we feel fly
and everything but after 35 kiddo we are
past our prime because the the prime years
for child rearing and and your beauty and
your youth, etcetera, is what? It's in your
twenties.
So we're in a situation now where even
Muslim girls are spending their twenties
chasing the bag, chasing the degree, chasing the
accolades and the dunya etcetera.
And now we're having a conversation about
masha'Allah
accomplished
beautiful,
successful
sisters
who are in their late thirties,
who
ideally
should have the pick of the bunch, but
because they missed out on that window
when they could have had anyone that they
wanted,
now they have to start thinking about their
standards and thinking about what is realistic for
them.
And that's what we've done.
And I think one of the things that
I I've said before, and I'm I'm gonna
say it here again,
Those of us who have children now, guys,
we need to wake up
and not repeat the mistakes of the previous
generation
because we can see the young people who
are paying the price now. We can see
the the women and the men who are
paying the price or whatever mistakes their parents
made. Right?
We need to redress that balance.
We need to redress that balance and start
preparing our children
just to to be
builders of families at the end of the
day. Right? To to understand the importance
of a family.
To understand the importance of marriage. Guys, it's
not just a Hollywood romance. It's it's an
institution,
and it's a part of your work on
this earth. Right? And preparing us for that
with the mindset.
It's a mindset thing. You prepare your sons
to be responsible husbands. You prepare your daughters
to be responsible wives. Everything else is a
bonus.
But what does a responsible wife look like?
What does a responsible husband look like? And
are we prepared to put in the work
to make sure that our girls have those
wife skills,
our boys have those husband skills, that both
have the emotional skills that it takes to
maintain a relationship, to be able to commit.
Do they have the spiritual
grounding
to understand what it is that they're even
doing together in a marriage? What the purpose
is,
what their focal point should be. This is,
I feel, the work of our generation now
is to right the wrongs of the previous
generation. Because I think we've lost a whole
generation, I think, of of,
whoever it is out there who's, like, hasn't
been able to find anyone and maybe has
missed that window, at least to have children.
Because maybe you'll find someone when you're 38,
40, 45,
but you may have missed the opportunity to
have the family that you wanted.
I don't know.
And that that that
so a couple of things. That's part of
the motivation for me
is
connecting with sisters
35 and up to 33, 35 and up,
and helping them to increase their pool of
options
because
they want families.
They want connection.
I can't tell you the number of sisters
that I know that have engaged in things
that they
would never say that they would engage
in out of desperation for connection.
So, yeah, the the I can't tell you
the number of sisters that I've worked with
who
have and are engaging in things that they
they would never engage in. They they clearly
have said that
it's not
it's not who they are.
Right?
To be the the the mistress of a
Muslim man. Right? To be the filler for
his time.
Right? Just because he gives you connection.
But,
I see that often, unfortunately. I see that
often. And and, again, it it begins with,
those unhelpful thoughts. Right? That unhelpful that unhelpful
need for validation.
Right? That neediness.
I have Muslim here. The Muslim mistress issue
is real, our community.
It's real. Why are these not secret wives?
Why are they mistresses? I don't understand. Sorry,
guys. I'm not making a case for secret
wives, but I don't get it. Like, why
a mistress and not a secret wife?
So so
so this is this is the thing.
The stigmatism that we have in our community
around
is
problematic,
and that leads to shame.
Right? Mhmm. And so the the sisters and
brothers that I know that are engaged in
private marriages,
they're engaged in it because they don't want
to deal with community. They don't wanna deal
with their friends.
Like, I I I literally know sisters who
in public,
speak against religion and speak against,
you know, private marriages, and they're in one.
Wow.
And and and that's because they know the
community that they live in. Right? We don't
let adults live. Right? We don't let adults
make adult decisions, right, when it's too uncomfortable
for us.
Right?
And so
that that's what I see. I see I
see sisters who, again, that conversation that I
I brought up earlier about knowing yourself, knowing
your libido
and and understanding that, look,
it's not something you can just pray away
or fast away. You need to address. You've
been in a
10, 12, 15 year marriage, and now you're
single for a year, and you got an
you got a natural god given itch. How
are you gonna address that?
Are you going to engage in dating?
Right? Are you gonna engage in halal dating?
Or Technically, it's not halal dating because where
it ends up. But are you going to
tell yourself that you're gonna engage in halal
dating that ends up in regular dating,
right,
until you find the right person for marriage.
Is that how you're gonna go about this?
Right? Because you ruled out so many potentials
that That's what I was going to ask
you. Yeah. I was going to ask you.
So these these women that you're talking about,
are these women who have a criteria or
who have an ideal in their mind
and have already turned down offers Yeah. That
didn't fit the ideal. They turned down
10 plus men
who aren't the,
masculine
alpha s type Muslim brother.
Right. Okay. The brothers that don't meet that
criteria that may not have the level of,
of finesse and confidence that
the demand
that arouses them, that attracts them has
that type of God.
Right? He doesn't have that. They turned down
those type of brothers that has a good
job as well. Right? Doctors, lawyers Wow. Engineers
turned them down because they just don't move
them.
This is problematic for me. This is problematic
for me. And and I'll I'll tell you
why.
Let me just make one point. And this
have y'all with it because these sisters also
have means. So that's the reality. Right. They
have the children are with them. They have
a profession.
So in their mind, yes, they're 35.
They're 33, 36.
They have in their mind, this again, the
limiting belief,
the unhelpful belief. They believe they have time.
And options.
Yeah. Yeah.
But in reality, the options you do have,
you don't like them.
You want to pursue those that give you
a little chase.
Right?
That's the the type of men that they
want. The one that are
arousing and attractive.
You can pursue that,
but you may not end up with
the ring.
This is this is this is a problem
for me because and and it's not a
problem for me.
It's a conundrum
that we find ourselves in
and we find ourselves facing
due
to our biology on the one hand and
our socialization on the other. Right?
Now
once upon a time,
you got married because that was the thing
to do.
Your parents chose your match.
Maybe you saw him. Maybe you didn't.
Maybe you saw her. Maybe you didn't.
Either way, it's going down. Y'all getting married.
Okay?
And as I say, okay.
Y'all getting married. Okay? This has been discussed
and has been agreed since you guys were
3, 5 years old. Okay? This is a
family issue.
Our family has agreed with the other family
that our families are coming together for the
mutual benefit of our families. We like them.
They like us. They're on our level. We're
on their level. This is a good match.
So you got married.
You knew what that meant.
You've got some things that you need to
do. As a woman, you know what those
things are and you've been raised
to understand what those things are and prepare
for them and to do them when it's
time. Similar to the man. You know what
it means to be a husband. You've been
raised to do that, to expect to do
that. And when you're married, you know it's
time to do that.
Duty, responsibility,
loyalty,
honor, stability,
job done.
You guys are married. Now you're gonna have
children and you're gonna have a family of
your own and you're gonna do the same
thing. And I'm sure this is how it
worked
literally around the world for probably centuries. Okay.
Guys, forgive me. I'm not being very historically
accurate here, but you know, love marriages were
not a thing. Any really anywhere in history
really when it comes to
families and marriage. It's about
resources.
It's about, you know, unifying families, about strengthening
clan and, and, and bloodlines and all of
that stuff. Nothing to do with love and
certainly
very little to do with desire.
And so
when you say
that a sister will turn down
a good man because he doesn't give her
the chills,
She doesn't have desire for him. She doesn't
have what they refer to as the genuine
desire. Right? She doesn't have the genuine desire
for him. So she turns him down. Now
in our modern context, that makes complete sense
because in our minds, you're supposed to desire
your husband. You know, woman has desire just
like a man has desire. We know this.
You're supposed to desire your husband and every
man wants to be desired by his wife.
This is our new kind of programming. Right?
Everybody's on that.
So this sister who turns down the one
she's not desirous of, on the one hand,
it makes sense because she doesn't want him
like that. So why would she say yes
to him if she doesn't want him like
that? So she's made that decision.
That's done. That offer is gone off the
table.
And instead
she entertains
the one she is desirous of
who in many circumstances, as you said,
does not provide
what the traditional
family would be looking for, which is stability,
which is commitment,
which is security,
which is a kind of a home where
you are going to do your duty and
have the next generation.
So, so now we're in a conundrum here
because
what do we tell that sister? You should
have married the one that you didn't like,
the one that didn't give you the chills,
the one who didn't have the finesse. You
should have married him because he was the
rational option. He was the sensible option. And
he was the he was the good guy.
You know? The the quintessential, but he was
the beta guy. He was the beta box.
Right? He was the beta male provider. Right?
Nice
guy. He's the nice guy. He's the good
guy. He was the safe option.
Are we saying to her, you should have
gone for him?
And if we are saying that,
how do we deal with this issue of
desire then?
Should we take desire off the table? No.
We don't. But I think we have to
also play the whole tape. Okay. Right? We
gotta play the tape and and, you know,
not just stop at our our favorite song.
Like play the tape all the way out.
And we gotta tell systems the reality is
and again, I'm ready for the smoke on
this.
You can ask
for what you would get at 20 to
25
Mhmm. At 30 to 35.
You just don't have that same level of
options.
You just don't.
Mhmm. Right? So at 20 to 25,
if you want to
prioritize
the brother that gives you
the
the fields,
right, the brother that arouses you,
That's not a problem.
I mean, obviously, look for the other the
other Yeah.
Who you It's a it's it is a
bit of a problem, I think. It is
a bit of a problem, But yeah. I
I don't I don't think it's a problem
if you're looking for the other criteria as
well. Okay. Right? Like, we're we're giving we're
going
forward with the given that we're talking about
Muslim women that are going to, by default,
look for someone that believes in the law
and is not saying that you have the
person has faith. Right? The person is going
to be pursuing something,
that provide for a family. Like, these foundational
things Okay. That's a given. Okay. There's nothing
wrong with also wanting
him to have some edge to him, some
for sure, some sweat. Mhmm. Right? There's nothing
wrong with that. But the reality is, since
once you get 33, 35,
you can't really pull that same criteria
or demand. Let me put it that way.
You can't demand that same criteria
at that age.
You just don't have the options. You can,
but don't expect to get as many options
as you had before. Mhmm. Because men that
are your age, 33, 35,
if they are the quality men that you're
looking for,
they know they can go down 10 years.
They know they can go down 5 years.
Why would they want to? Because if I've
done what I needed to do at 33,
got the 2 degrees,
pursue qualifications,
got experience on my job, and now I
have a, a solid salary
and I'm ready to take care of a
family,
it only makes sense for me to choose
someone at 10 years younger, 23, 25,
because I'm ready for her to have my
children.
Mhmm. She's in the best space genetically Mhmm.
Biologically
to have children.
Like, this isn't
a a a personal thing.
You know, something wrong with Muslim women at
33. No. This is what is biologically
in my best interest
to have the children that I want.
Right?
And so that's the thing.
Right? That's the thing that sisters need to
that's the rest of the tape that we
don't play for sisters, or we try to
create these
delusional,
ideals
that
mask the reality of what men prefer.
And again, limiting beliefs, one of the criteria
of limiting beliefs
are demands that we place on ourselves,
others, or life
conditions. Mhmm. In this context,
the demand that you're placing on others are
men
is that you not want what you really
want. The demand that you're placing on life
is that I've gone through this education process.
I've gotten the accolades
and now I should have the man that
I want, how I want it, when I
want
it right now.
That's a limiting belief because you have demands.
You gotta let go of your demands. So
I prefer
the fact I prefer
now that I have this PhD
to be able to marry someone of my
same caliber
in terms of education,
but I'm not going to demand that of
myself
or others.
Right? That's a preference. That's a flexible belief.
Let's not be rigid.
Yeah. Right? So I'm not saying you have
to give that up. You just have to
give up the demand that's attached to
the academic qualifications.
What comes to mind for me is something
that I've I've seen
being said about,
you know, women. And again, guys, remember,
no one's here smug looking out or down
at anybody else. Yeah. Making it true, dear.
One of the things to speak to what
you said earlier is when you're talking about
correcting the wrongs, one of the wrongs we
have to correct is making sure we don't
lean too much on our kids.
So my sisters that are divorced,
35 and up,
don't lean too much in your kids. Don't
lean too much on your son for your
emotional support. Don't lean too much on your
daughter for your emotional support.
Let them be teenagers. Let them be children.
You handle your emotions
as an adult.
Learn how to regulate your emotions.
I e, get a man in your life
if you need a man in your life.
Connect with another man
and not be dependent on your kids to
provide
them. Wow. This is just so
you know, I I What are we talking
about early when you said are people doing
it? This is the type of work people
need to be doing. This is the type
of conversations people need to be having with
themselves, to themselves,
about their emotions.
2 things.
One
is a conversation that I've been seeing happening
about
older women
like me
who are not married,
but are chasing a feeling.
And
35,
40, 45,
50,
60.
And they're looking for a man who
got there, got this, can do that, can
do this.
Chasing a feeling,
still believing
in the hype,
still believing in the fairy tale, you know,
that
one day my prince shall come. Right? And
he's gonna sweep me off my
feet, and it's gonna be
roses and romance
and, and, and, and good vibes all around.
And the conversation that I heard,
which,
you know, initially, you feel, oh, well, that's
not a very nice thing to say. You
know? That you know, what it what it
is that I'm going to say. But I
wanna put it out here because I think
it's it's interesting,
and it maybe may have a perspective on
it. But the conversation was,
why are
these women who are in middle age or
past middle age
still behaving like teenagers?
Why are they chasing the dreams of teenagers?
What what is happening here? Right? And I
thought that was interesting because
it's like
if I get to a certain stage in
life,
I have to start becoming
a realist. Right? And a pragmatist. And if,
as you
say, a part of my work
is to get a man in my life
so that I can have adult company and
I can have the is that I need
fulfill my need
for the companionship that Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala
created us for. Right?
If my
if if that is part of my work,
then it's also part of my work
to
start embracing
realistic ideas of what that relationship
can and should look like or could look
like. Right?
If I hold on to
my fantasies
from my youth
or I'm trying to relive fantasies from my
youth,
I may find myself in a situation where
I'm turning down
perfectly good men.
I'm turning away perfectly good opportunities because I'm
chasing a fairy tale. I'm chasing a fantasy.
And instead of
realizing that, hold on a minute, the time
for fantasies is done. Maybe you never had
a time of fantasies.
Maybe you got married young. I was married
at 22 alhamdulillah
and I had 5 children in the space
of however many years 15 years alhamdulillah
I I was I'm grateful to allah
that
I became Muslim.
And I think within a year or 2,
I was married. And a year after that,
I had my first child. And I'm grateful
to Allah. I finally finished my degree, got
married in, I think, the last couple of
months of my degree. And and then and
then, you know, I was I was, you
know, married. Alhamdulillah.
So from
that introduction,
the expectation
of marriage was very, very clear because in
those days, you know how it was. It
was very black and white. It's Dean
and the Dean says that a wife does
this and a husband does that and the
purpose of marriage is x y zed. So
a lot of maybe the fantasies and the
fairy tales, etcetera, from your childhood, you maybe
put those to the side a bit because
you're like, it's deen now, you know, this
is, this is serious. This is real. And
I feel like as a Muslim community, we've
regressed
from that
because that's not our lens anymore.
We don't see things in any shape, size,
and form,
any shape, size, or form black and white
anymore.
Everything is rainbow. It's not even gray. It's
rainbow,
you know. So at at one point in
time,
if a woman said,
I want to marry to guard my private
parts.
And as long as the man fulfills the
criteria that Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala has set
for him,
I will marry him. I'm
gonna I'm gonna be a wife. I'm gonna
do the, you know, the best that I
can. It's I'm gonna try, and that's that.
There was a time someone could say that.
We don't be saying that anymore.
Unfortunately.
That's not our lens anymore. You know? Our
lens is
it's the programming.
It's the fairy tale. It's the ideal.
It's the dream. Right?
It's it's exactly what you see on the
Steve Harvey show. I'm sorry to say
it is the laundry list.
He has to have this, and he has
to have that. I need it to be
this, and I need it to be that.
I need to do that.
And this long, long, long, long list of
criteria and demands, and sisters feel, you know,
I I I've I've seen this this kind
of visceral response from sisters when you say
to them, you know, your demands are too
high.
They really genuinely do not believe their demands
are high.
They will, you know, say, well, it's not
like he has to do x, y, zed.
You know? Or, well, I have this, therefore
he has to have that. Obviously, it's clear.
Right?
And
what am I saying? I'm saying
at the end of the day,
there has to come a time when we
start making adult decisions
and we start behaving
in a practical,
rational, and logical way.
If what we want
is to be in a marriage, working on
a relationship that has longevity.
I'm sorry.
It can't be about the feels.
It can't be about the check the the
the the check boxes. It can't be
comparing every brother that comes to this ideal
fantasy in your head
because he is an ideal fantasy. And, subhanAllah,
brother, I'll share this with you.
I've been on, matrimonial apps before. Everybody knows
that.
We all have anyway.
But you're going through this process of swiping.
Right?
Right or left, right or left. And the
thing is
brothers don't know how to take pictures. That's
the truth. Men do not know
how to take a good picture.
So the sorry, guys. No shade, but it's
true. And, sisters, you know, put in the
comments below if you know what I'm talking
about.
Brothers don't know how to take pictures. It's
fine. They're not supposed to know anyway. And
if you see a brother who takes filters,
takes pictures with filters, then this is an
issue. But anyway,
I digress.
So the brothers don't necessarily present themselves
very, very well
and you're ruthlessly
swiping left. Sis, you know you are. You
know he doesn't have that look. He doesn't
have the swag. He doesn't have the body.
He doesn't have the hairline. Doesn't have the
skin. He doesn't have the beard that you
like.
Left, left, left, left, left.
And at one point in my process,
I stopped.
And I said,
if my late husband, Alejandro,
the father of my children,
was on this app,
would I have swiped left or right?
I would have swiped left
because he wasn't my type.
Alhamdulillahi
rabbalalamin. We didn't have apps in those days.
We had friends who introduced us and you
you spoke with someone.
You you you came
almost on an equal footing. Like, okay. I
I wanna get married. You wanna get married?
Okay. Let's see if we can make this
work. Let's let's find out more about each
other. Let's understand what it is that you
know, what are you looking for? Those are
the questions that what are you looking for?
Okay. This is what I've got.
And it was an organic process and you
meet the person.
And when you meet the person and they
smile, you're just like, oh my god. Yes.
Yeah?
All of this looking at people's appearances and
kind of just swiping on them, etcetera,
from a place of,
I deserve better than that. I deserve better
than that. Why? Because I'm whatever I am,
I deserve better. I deserve better.
And
that moment was a real
moment for me. And I think any sister
who kind of sits with herself
and has an honest conversation with herself, it's
not about being down on yourself. It's not
about, you
know, beating yourself down
or, you know,
listening to the inner mean girl or or
like it's it's nothing like that. That's not
the energy here.
The energy here is,
what's the truth?
What's what's true?
Can I
accept
myself
for who I truly am?
Warts and all.
Can I be real with myself?
Can I
see myself
as
my husband saw
me? Warts and all.
Can I see myself as a potential husband
might see me?
Warts and all.
Can I own the fact that I'm not
perfect?
Can I own the fact that I don't
have it all figured out? Can I own
the fact that I have failings and I've
made mistakes
and I am not perfect
and that whoever
accepts me, whoever chooses me
is
settling for me?
Because there is no way that I will
fulfill anyone's
full criteria
unless he has very basic criteria, which a
lot of brothers do.
But still
there's no guarantee.
And in fact, regardless of the brother's criteria,
if you are living with another human being,
you have to accept their humanity, which means
you settle for their humanity because there's no
human being that's perfect. There's going to be
things that annoy you. There's going to be
things that are not great about that person.
But you overlook them. Like the prophet said,
when you see something you dislike in your
wife, look for the thing that you like.
Right?
Meaning there are going to be things that
you dislike. So sisters,
after all of that,
what I want to say is,
it's okay.
And this may sound very, very strange, but
it's okay to be average.
You know?
Most of us are.
It's okay to accept that
you're not young anymore.
That your body is not as it was
before you had kids. That
your time is limited because you have responsibilities
and extended family and,
you know, it's okay to admit
that your life isn't perfect and you haven't
got it all figured out.
Because once you can be honest with yourself
about your true level,
spiritually,
emotionally,
mentally,
physically.
Right? Financially.
Your true level.
I believe inshallah. It will make you
more humble
as you're on this process.
Some people may say,
how can you go into marriage
or looking for marriage with humility?
That makes no sense. You have to have
confidence. Right?
Because nobody wants somebody who's not confident.
And my viewpoint is
confidence is an inner knowing
that you are worthy,
And you are.
With all your mistakes and your failings and
everything, you are worthy. In the sight of
Allah, you are worthy.
And as a human being, intrinsically, you have
worth halas.
When you are going to go into
a potential relationship with someone,
your worth to them is relative,
right?
Because
what you have has to match what they
want.
And that might happen with some people. And
it may not
doesn't say much about you necessarily, but it
says that that's not a match for you.
But my point is,
if we can go into those conversations
with humility,
understanding that,
look, I have, as you said, I have
check-in, not check-in, I have hand luggage.
Okay. I know what my hand luggage is
and I'm prepared to accept
your hand luggage
and, and support you
on this journey of life with your hand
luggage.
I don't know brother Nasir,
whether
that for a man
or for a brother, that, that, that attitude
of,
of humility
and,
and
groundedness
is something that would be attractive to a
man or would benefit the conversation
when they are discussing,
you know, what they could potentially be together.
I mean, from a man's point of view,
I could just be spouting guys. And if
he if he if he if he shoots
me down,
y'all could put it in the comments and
say, sister Nyama, next time, just be quiet.
But brother Nasir,
from a man's perspective,
do you think that a sister coming to
the table with her own quiet confidence, she
knows her worth,
but coming to that space with humility
and self awareness
would benefit those conversations.
Of course. Right? Of course.
And so we're gonna just skip over this
whole part of you saying you're single. We're
gonna just put that over the side, then
we'll, you know,
I'll nudge you on that a little bit
later because I would be interested in your
connecting that with ideas of fantasies and things
like that. So I'm interested in how that's
connected,
but we'll put that over here. Answer your
question. You you're right.
I think I think especially for the age
category that we're talking about, right, 35 plus,
I think that see,
this is where I think sisters waste time
fighting against and demanding brothers not,
want what they want versus
using their time,
more strategically
and,
seeing how they fit into what men are
looking for. So approaching a man with humility,
self awareness.
Right? Those are 2 things that an older
seasoned man is looking for.
Right? And you've got letting go of these
you know, that's the whole point of having
a sister with wisdom and experience is that
she's gone through certain things.
She's gone through certain things.
And
and and,
by going through those things, she now has
she now has
the experience that leads her to let go
of some of those fantasies.
Right? Mhmm. And let go of those ideas.
Right?
That don't add up. Right? That aren't logical.
And they're not helpful. Right. And they're not
helpful. Mhmm. Right. And so with that being
said,
that's the exact type of,
sister
that, brother would be looking for. Obviously, the
other things need to be there in terms
of faith and practice and attraction.
But the critical thing that's important is assisted
as self aware.
Right. And has let go of some of
those
unhelpful beliefs, that baggage. Right? Because that's even
though that may be in your eyes, check-in
baggage or carrying a baggage
In in my mind, if someone else that
may be check-in baggage, and I ain't willing
to help you with that.
Right? If you have these fantasies
about what you're entitled to or what marriage
should look like and all of that,
I I don't have time to carry that.
And I don't wanna waste my time Yeah.
Or my my my earned money
on paying extra for that type of luggage.
I don't need that in my life.
You used the word entitled, and I think
entitlement
is a big we haven't actually mentioned that
today, but I think it kind of sums
up a lot of what I've been saying
and we've been saying about,
I guess, women in general, you know, in
terms of society,
in terms of what society is breeding in
women, it is a sense of entitlement.
I think that's kind of the whole boss
babe thing. I think that's probably the best
way of describing it.
It's very uncharacterable.
I I I can't tell you how unattractive
it is. And I I don't know any
I don't know any
masculine man that's in my circle
that is attracted to them.
It's laughable, actually.
And it's the the opposite of the humility,
isn't it? Because and this is the thing.
Again,
smoke.
The woman who comes to the table with
the quiet confidence that
my my qadr is with Allah, my rizq
is from Allah,
alhamdulillah, I'm happy with within who I am,
but I have humility in this conversation and
I'm here to listen.
I'm here to see, you know, kind of
what it is that's required. Can I can
I can I do that? Can I be
that for you? Etcetera, etcetera. Right?
Of course,
no one is saying that she shouldn't have
standards for herself. Okay. We don't wanna preach
that message that basically, you know, let go
of all standards and accept whatever it is
that you're offered.
But I do think that that humble
grounded self awareness
is the opposite of the entitlement,
is the opposite of the entitled
demands,
I should have, I deserve.
Yeah. I think that's what I wanna say.
Yeah. And you're right. Standards you should have.
Standards and boundaries
are critical.
Everyone should have certain standards. She should go
into a situation where there is or where
there's monogamy
with criteria,
where there's gonna be a public marriage or
a private.
Need to have criteria and standards for sure.
Mhmm. But I think it's are those standards
grounded in reality?
Yeah. Right?
Are they grounded in a helpful understanding
of what you actually
can get?
And if you're okay, if you're okay with
only having
2 or 3 possible candidates a year because
you have certain standards and you're okay with
that, then that's fine.
2 or 3 candidates a year is a
lot.
Most people are not getting 2 or 3
serious candidates a year. That's a lot. Most
people aren't getting 2 or 3 serious candidates
that they're willing to entertain.
This okay. Fair enough. Yeah. That's true. Right.
Because they they and I'm not I'm so
let me be also clear about that. I'm
not actually knocking that in and of itself.
Right? If if a man doesn't turn you
on and doesn't, you know,
around you in a certain way, you're not
attracted to him in a certain way
and you can handle your desires,
then wait. Hold out, sis. If everything else
in your life is good, hold out with
the Hold out for the feels? Really?
Yeah. Because it's not just about the feels.
It's not just about the feels. It's all
that comes with that.
But this is where the reality has to
come in. This is self awareness.
Can
you hold out and not engage in the
Haram?
If you can't hold out for and and
maintain the halal, then you need to go
ahead and make that deal.
Do you think that
more Muslims are falling into zinnah than we
think?
Oh,
100%.
A 100%.
A 100%.
I'm I'm trying to figure out how to
put it next.
It is it is,
and this is why I get so I
get so much pushback
when I say these type of things.
For example, sis, if you can't handle your
libido
in a healthy halal way,
then get married.
Get into religion,
get like
because that is better than
engaging in the Haram.
So I made a post about that, and
I got some pushback to some sisters. They're
saying that I'm trying to
create a dichotomy of either, or it's not
what I'm saying.
What I'm saying is if you can hold
out
and allow manner and pursue the type of
brother you want, then great.
But if you know you keep falling
into the Haram
repeatedly
with this brother over here that
meets certain criteria for you,
then you need to go ahead and get
into religion as a marriage with this man.
Because what you're doing in the men in
the meantime
is you engage in
illicit
activities.
Put on activities.
Not that they are. Right? And that's the
reality. Like, we we don't like to acknowledge
that. Ain't no wanna ain't nobody wanna hear
that. Yeah. They they they Ain't nobody wanna
hear that. They really don't. And it's like,
you know what you're engaged in.
Being up with him after he gets off
or after you get
off, you know,
at the lounge or wherever at the park
or meeting up at his spot or your
spot or you guys getting a hotel.
Like, I'm not knocking. We're all simple human
beings. We just send different I I'm not
knocking it. I'm just No. No. No, guys.
Sorry. Can I just say, no? We're out
here knocking it. Okay? Don't be doing that.
Okay? This is not the thing to do.
Okay? We do not we are not pros
in it on this channel. Okay? So let
let me say this. When I say I
don't I'm not knocking What I mean
is shift it. Make it halal.
Right. I'm knocking that you're attracted to this
guy. You are. You are. I'm not. That's
who you're attracted to,
But make it halal.
Don't continue to engage in something that you
know
is really just filler for him because now
that you've given yourself to him in this
context, he ain't.
I'm almost done. I can't take you know,
how many sisters that I've that I've said
that to, and they just really look at
me like, is it really he's not going
to change?
Like, no. He's like, yeah. They believe it.
Oh, no. Oh, shame. A a significant number
of my client base. I'm look. I do
believe it's the skill sets that I have,
but a part of it is we just
haven't given our sisters reality.
You if you get out of a marriage
and you've been with 1 man or 2
men all your life and 2 marriages, and
then you you have no experience, and then
you get into relationship with a man and
you're intimate with a man,
call it a rat.
You would just fill it until he finds
the woman that he wants to to marry,
that he thinks is the type of woman
that can raise his daughter.
Right? It's gonna be the type of woman
that he Woah.
Yeah.
And I and I I hate to be
the the bearer of bad news, but I
break it to that's the reality. You're feeling
right now. Do you want to continue to
be feeling? This is what I talked about
earlier when I said the cost. What cost
are you willing to pay
as you wait for mister Wright?
Because if you're willing to be the filler
for another man who really doesn't want to
be with you, then understand there's an emotional
cost that comes with that. Not to mention
the spiritual cost that comes with that.
And not to mention,
if he aligns you right, now you got
a bigger problem.
What do you mean?
Alpha widow
type of thing?
Exactly.
Exactly.
Right? You get that alignment real right.
You're stuck now.
You're stuck. Meaning you get hooked on him
physically and Exactly. Moving on from him becomes
Exactly. Becomes,
Physically, he aligns you right. You you get
it. Like, he ain't never got it before.
Now when that happens,
now you're in this situation.
You you 6 months in, you know he's
not leaving his wife and or he's not
going to commit to you and make you
his wife.
Right? He still wants to continue to search
for the right woman, which is not you,
which he's But he already has the right
woman. She's at home. And and you are
the side chick, basically. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
And he's not leaving her.
And, oh, I I know cases where the
brother was single.
Right?
35, never married, but he's looking for that
sister who's younger,
who's the type of woman that would be
a good mother to children
in his eyes.
Yeah. And so in the meantime, until he
finds her, he plays with, you know, women
who willingly
get in these relationships.
Right? And I think that the part that
is frustrating I mean, you
know, poor decision making.
Let's call it that. But I think the
part that's frustrating for a lot of women
is that that man
believes that he is entitled to the good
woman
who will, as you say, raise his children,
raise his daughters. And that that's annoying.
That's annoying. I'm sorry. That that is
yeah.
But it's reality.
The likelihood
of him marrying
the younger sister who's 25,
fresh out of college,
looking for someone who's Muslim,
even if just by name,
stable in his career,
the likelihood
of him finding that sister is high.
The likelihood of the sister who's 35 and
divorced,
finding the man that meets all of her
laundry list
is slim.
Mhmm. Not saying whether I like it or
not, that's just reality. So then the question
to the sister is, okay. What adjustments do
I need to make in terms of the
type of men that I'm willing to accept
moving forward?
It might be that nice guy with the
nice job that thinks the world of me
that doesn't attract me or arouse me.
This is it, guys. This is the
these are the choices and the trade offs,
I guess, that life is constantly asking us
to make. And this is the problem. If
you have the nice guy that shows up
after you were just with the, you know,
the the 35 year old little guy, and
he aligned you right now. You got a
problem.
You're tired of him. It's been 6 months,
and he's still not committed to marrying you.
And he's told you that he's going to,
that we are just not working out.
Right? And now that's over. Do you go
to the nice guy that's been waiting for
you since you met before you met?
You know? Call it from copies.
You see, this is the interesting thing because
for me, there's two answers here.
Of course,
for the woman,
I say
detox from your haram love.
Right? And make the right decision to settle
down with the good guy. That's from the
woman's side. That's the woman's side. Just be
real.
Oh, detox is whatever you need to do.
Therapy,
you know, you know,
get your head right. Because what I don't
agree with is you carrying
that haram love into this relationship
and him being the prototype
and then your husband now you're comparing him
to the I don't know how possible it
is
to detox. I'm not making any claims about
that, but you as a woman must at
least
have that conversation with yourself.
And I think the conversation is this
exactly.
The conversation is this,
and it's it's very important, I think. If
anyone's in this position
and, you know, this is resonating with you,
then, alhamdulillah.
But
the conversation
needs to be
a reframing
of that haram relationship because a lot of
the time that haram relationship
has been you've been telling yourself a story
about
that love.
Yeah.
That is love.
That's real love. He really loved me. We
were perfect for each other. You know, the
stories that we tell, he is the best
ever. He's the best I'll ever have. You
build up this persona and you tell yourself
a story about that relationship.
Now
if the relationship ends
and you have
any intention
of committing to somebody else, you I this
is me, not a psychologist,
not a whatever, but I would say to
any sister who was in that situation,
you must
reframe that situation that you were in. You
need to tell yourself a new story. A
lot of the time,
you need to get really
raw and honest with yourself about what the
* was really going on there.
Mhmm. And sometimes it means focusing on the
negative things that you've been avoiding thinking about
all this time.
About how he strung you along, about how
he made you these promises, how he broke
your heart, how he used to do x,
y, and zed that was not in alignment
with what you wanted and how at the
end of the day that relationship
was in the eyes of Allah
wish.
It was filth
and you degraded yourself in that situation. Hey.
It doesn't feel so good now, does it?
It don't feel good because all this time
you're in your feelings, you're in your physical,
you're in your dopamine hit and everything. But
when you sit down
and you make a decision to say, you
know what? I need to face the reality
of what just happened.
And if you're able to do that and
you're able to, with your heart
cut ties
with that story, that old story, the love
story,
and accept
that, you know what?
I made a * big mistake.
Right?
He was not the one I thought he
was. He was not the man I thought
that he was.
And I wanted something out of that
that never be. And in the process I
earned Allah's anger and his wrath and I'm
deserving of punishment
and I need to make tawba.
I need to cleanse myself of that haram
relationship.
Allahu Alam.
But I think anybody who has that conversation
with themselves and gets really honest with themselves,
I hope and pray
that they, like I said, can cleanse themselves
of that and can now look at the
new relationship
and frame that relationship as the ideal,
as the pure, as the good, as the
desirable option, as the better option. Because otherwise,
if you don't reframe
that haram relationship where you had the feels
and you had the passion
becomes the ideal.
And this
man, the safe choice, the good guy,
it's like you've downgraded.
It's like you've settled. It's like you're,
you know, you kind of, you made the
best of a bad situation. Narciss,
that was the bad situation.
That was bad situation. No matter how good
it felt, that was the bad version. And
if this man will take you in halalah,
you guys say alhamdulillah
and be grateful to Allah that he gave
you a chance with somebody who is actually
going to honor you and respect you. That
for me
would be my advice to any sister in
that situation.
As for the guy, obviously, he's probably a
sim.
But, anyway,
it's okay if he gets what he wants.
The thing is, check this out. Right?
So Might definitely be real. Go on. Go
on. Nah. So so so continue.
Continue. I I wanna I wanna say that
that is the the archetypal
Hollywood story, isn't it? Yeah?
Goodbye,
Loved you from time. Always saw you as
the queen, as a gem. It's the Forrest
Gump narrative. Isn't it? She, you never paid
him any attention. You didn't feel that way
about him. You went off. You went and
sold your wild oats, did your madness, and
then kind of
were burnt out there and you came back
home and there he was waiting for you,
ready to wipe you up and be that
beta male provider
and make a good woman of you. Right?
Now
this is, you
know but but, guys, this is, I mean,
this is you know, if we're gonna be
talking about it sort of in modern colloquial
terms, that's simping behavior. Right? But, however,
my view on simping is this.
A simp
is someone who invests
time,
effort,
and resources
in a woman who is not worthy.
Meaning, a woman who does not see his
worth and does not appreciate
his time, effort, and resources.
This is this is my definition of something.
So if you have a wife
who loves you and respects you
and
is full and thankful, you're more than happy
to invest time, effort, and resources. Right?
You're more than happy to to to to
do nice things for her, to do nice
things with her, to to to look after
her, to provide for her because she is
worthy of your resources and your time and
your attention. Yeah. So we wouldn't say that
a man being a good provider
and, and, and, and being kind to his
wife, etcetera, is simping. I wouldn't anyway.
Because if she's thankful and she's grateful, she's
appreciative,
then
done because that's my understanding. But you could
disagree with me. Do you disagree with my
definition? What do you reckon? No. I I
don't disagree with your definition of of simple.
And I don't disagree
with
I do think though that men that men
consent in a marriage to a good woman.
Oh.
Yeah. How can you simp to a good
woman? Hold on. Before we get to that,
which is a very good question, by the
way,
I just want to say that
that woman who went out there and, you
know, with this haram relationship situation that we
were talking about,
For me to be happy for the man,
I would need for her to have an
attitude adjustment.
Meaning
she doesn't come to him
carrying
the check on luggage
from that relationship.
She does not come to him comparing him
to her haram love.
She does not come to him with an
attitude settling,
you know, making
the best of a bad situation. Oh, well,
I guess I'll go with him. No, that's
not the energy that I want any man
to have from his wife.
So if
she comes to him and she's had that
attitude adjustment and she is
glad for his proposal,
She's grateful for his proposal. She understands
that this is something valuable
and this is something that is a blessing
for me and this is something that I'm
grateful to Allah for, and I'm I'm happy
to invest in this and do the work
that's necessary to make this relationship work,
then I'm happy for my guy.
Because he got the girl that he dreamt
about from the beginning,
but she's an improved version.
Because now she's coming into the relationship from
a place of humility.
And again, I'm gonna go back to the
humility. Right? She's not coming in
as in you've worshiped me all your life.
And you know why? Because I'm the queen.
You know, basically, you're not, I have the
upper hand here because basically you worship the
ground that I work on. No. Because that
that that would not be a good, balance.
But that's me. That's just me. Please say
what you were going to say. I'm not
I'm not happy for that guy. And if
I was working with him, I'd tell him
that he that she Aw.
Let that go.
Let that go. It's for the streets.
Hey. Hey. Hey.
You said it, not me. I wasn't gonna
say that, but I'm gonna say this. What
you say sound good. Right? It sounds good,
but I'm so know in the comments, guys,
what you think.
Is she for the streets, or is she
for a council's,
chair? And And I think that that's what
she's for. Like, the reality is what you're
saying sounds great, but it takes a lot
of time and energy and consistent work oneself.
Yeah. She's not gonna get there I need
help with it. Need her too. Right? Because
that's what happens in the movies. A great
example of this is is the movie, slum
dog millionaire.
Yes.
You you know what I mean? He, like,
goes through everything,
you know, for this sister. And so the
reality is when a woman gets burnt like
that in that type of relationship,
and then has this epiphany, has this wake
up that, you know what? This nice guy
over here is the guy that I should
have always had. Yeah. That epiphany, that that
that realization,
it lasts for probably
24 hours
at most of the.
Yeah.
But then
all of those unhelpful
beliefs, all of that trauma
that led her to stay
Yeah. Right?
With Khaled from copies that was treating her
wrong.
That's the stuff that she has to unpack
that, unfortunately,
the nice guy, the simp,
who doesn't have masculinity,
he's going to stay in it and accept
her
regardless of all of that work she needs
to do.
Now I can accept you as a fallible
human being, but it doesn't mean I need
to be in a relationship with you. And
that's the problem that the nice guy doesn't
understand.
And
the sister in that type of relationship,
she takes advantage of that.
Mhmm. Because she hasn't done all of that
work that needs to be done. And the
reality is there's a lot of work that
needs to be done. It is a lot
of work. And I think you need like
I said, I said therapy. I said, I
I you need to Right. The detox is
part of that. It's the therapy.
It's the. It's the so many things of
Because think about what that detox is. That's
a detox. That's a detox. That's a daily
effort.
That's a daily effort
to not reach out for for communication,
for contact, validation
from that person. True. Or the the guy
down the street that looks at you a
certain way, the same way that
they excellent at you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The
nice guy doesn't know how.
Right? Oh, no.
Oh, no.
Yeah. You know? Poor thing. Shane. This this,
this,
theoretical guy of ours, I feel I feel
bad for him. But you see, this is
the thing. And again, if anyone's watching this
and this resonates,
you know, please do take this advice
to heart and really hear what we're saying
here. Because one thing I I do believe
and I I say this because I have
sons and I have daughters.
So
I am not trying not to be biased.
I want good outcomes for my daughters, and
I want good outcomes for my sons. Just
like I want good outcomes for the sisters
and I want good outcomes for the brothers.
Neither of them for me outweighs the other
in my head.
So
any sister who's in that situation,
whether it's your ex husband
or your haram love, whatever the case may
be, right?
Try to do the work
of
closing the chapter.
We can call it that because whether it
was in halalah or harama, it's still a
chapter. Right?
Try to do the work, whatever work is
necessary, to close the chapter before you open
another one with somebody else.
Because I'm sure none of us would want
our brothers or our sons
to be
married by a woman who is still dreaming
of
her ex
or still dreaming of whoever in her past.
And like you said,
every day she thinks of him. Every day
it's a battle, not to text. Every day,
you know, there's something else that reminds her
of him. And of course, of course,
this new man of hers, he doesn't measure
up because in her head, again, she's told
herself a story
about this guy, that he was the one,
that he was the best and all of
this stuff. And if you can't, you know
and again,
this is not to say that you have
to downgrade your ex or your late husband.
That's not necessary.
He was what he was,
and you were together what you were.
Alhamdulillah,
Allah Khulihan.
But if you are going to go into
another relationship,
I think it's only fair
that you give that relationship a 100%,
which means you have to close the chapter.
That was a lot. We covered a lot
of ground,
a lot of things that we haven't spoken
about so far in this conversation. So, you
know, really looking forward to seeing
the conversations that it sparks,
beneficial ones.
But please, brother Nasir,
tell our
viewers where they can find you.
YouTube, Instagram, nasir al Amin, nasiraldashamin.
Yeah. And my website,
clalamine.com.
Reach out.
Just connect.
Perfect, guys. So listen,
everybody. Thank you so much for
with us because it was a long one.
You got benefit inshallah from the conversation today.
And, you know,
share your thoughts in the comments.
Like the video. Make sure you subscribe to
the channel and we don't wanna miss a
single episode of the marriage conversation with an
aim of b Robert because we are going
deep on that nobody's talking about that we
need to be talking about.
So I wanna just thank you
for being such a guest,
for just being so open and honest with
us.
Insha'Allah, we'll have you back maybe on a
Saturday night live
stream and have, you know, our audience kind
of come in and and bring their questions
and and some fun there, inshallah.
But in the meantime, may Allah bless you
and your family and your work
and guide us all. Ameen.