Naima B. Robert – Can Successful Women Be Good Wives With Rosalean Batool and Mariam Arafat
AI: Summary ©
The speakers emphasize the importance of finding a good wife and partnering with oneself to achieve success. They stress the need for honesty, respect, and balancing personal and professional boundaries, as well as setting boundaries for one's own development. The speakers also emphasize the importance of premise, understanding words, and hesitation in shaping behavior. The exercise is designed to help men become aware of the negative impact of words and improve self-awareness, and to encourage them to be faithful, loyal, and submissive.
AI: Summary ©
Welcome to our next session, everyone.
Everyone.
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So
I am going to stop my screen. Assalamu
alaikum,
everyone, and, hope that you're all very well.
Those of you who've been at Jumaa, may
Allah accept your salah and all your duas
and, all the good deeds
from today. I pray that Allah Subhanahu Wa
Ta'ala accepts this gathering from us, makes it
a gathering of Khair,
makes it a place where his name is
is mentioned,
where his deen is honored,
and where we remind each other and call
each other to
operate upon Bir and Taqwa. Okay? So we
cooperate
upon Bir and Taqwa, and these conferences are
all about that.
They are all about us cooperating
along, you know,
with Birr and Taqwa,
and and helping, insha'Allah, the community to strengthen
itself, to learn, to grow, to evolve,
in the way that Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala
wants us to. So with no more ado,
I'm going to open up the next session
insha'Allah. Sister Rosalyn, you can come on camera.
Sister Salam Alaikum, sister Miriam. I hope you're
well insha'Allah.
I'm going to put this,
I wanna make sure that everybody can see
us in, YouTube. I hope everyone can see
everyone. But
to somebody, I'm sister Rosalind, welcome. Welcome to
the conference. You guys are on day 1,
addressing a very, very topical
hot button issue. But before we dive into
that, please, could you just introduce yourselves briefly
and tell us who you are and what
you do inshallah?
Shall I go first, Naima? Yes. Go ahead.
Assalamu alaikum, everyone. I'm Rosalie Matu, and I'm
a wealth hypnotist. I help
female entrepreneurs,
CEOs awaken and cultivate their feminine energy so
that they can have more purpose, profit, and
pleasure in life. I run a multi six
figure business online
while raising 5 kids in the Gambia, and
I've been happily married for nearly 4 years
now.
What about you, Maryam?
For inviting India. It's
a great pleasure to be here with you
and sister Rotimi.
I'm a marriage coach.
I work with the framework of emotional intelligence
in Syria,
And my aim is to make women emotionally
strong and confident
because I believe that that is
what attractive,
is attractive for a woman. And that's what's,
you know,
a tool to build in healthy marriages.
I focus a lot on communication,
and more on emotional intimacy
and how that leads to physical intimacy.
And, I feel there is a lack of
knowledge in this area. So my aim is
to,
educate young adults, young women who are getting
married and married women
to work on this because this is truly
what's missing in our marriages these days.
I have I do 1 on 1 coaching.
I have, tribal, my circle membership,
which is like a community of why we
come together, we become vulnerable.
It's not a place where we crib about
our husbands, but we like, you know, take
advice, be like, okay, this is happening. What
next? So this is what my aim is
to have that place for women to come
and say, okay, I'm having this problem or
I'm having this issue. How to move forward?
How to go about it? Inshallah.
Okay. Fantastic.
So guys, you can see that we've got
some
really interesting perspectives and,
should I say, skill sets with us here
today to discuss this very, very, very meaty
issue. So let's kick it let's kick it
this off with
defining what we mean by successful women. Okay?
So in the context of this conversation, we're
gonna define success very narrowly. We're gonna decide
that the successful women we're talking about, certainly
in my comprehension, we are today talking about
women who have succeeded
in terms of their education,
in terms of their career, in terms of
business. Would you guys agree with that we're
all talking about the same archetype here?
Yes. Definitely. So woman with degrees, woman has
money,
she has some form of status, she has
a career. Definitely.
Mariem, are you on board? Yes. Yes. 100%.
I've deleted that. Okay. So the reason I'm
I'm laughing in a kind of impish way
is because, you know, you know Rosalyn. Right?
You know why we're having this conversation. Mariam,
you know why we're having this conversation. Right?
So I mean, I've you know, on my
channel, I've talked about this numerous times. But
for you, when you looked at this topic,
what did you think immediately? What were your
thoughts that came straight away? Were you excited?
Were you nervous? You were like, oh my
god, girl. Go in there. What were your
thoughts?
Okay. My thought was, number 1, excitement. And
secondly, I was like, I really wanna talk
about this because I feel like there's been
such a massive
misconstruing
of what real,
success is,
especially in the social media age,
especially the woke feminism.
So I'm I'm really, like, learning more about
red pill and the manosphere,
and I'd be like, this is, like, in
a very important topic for long girls, especially.
What about you, Maryam?
I thought it was a juicy one
because you can have so many elements to
it. And yet I was like, yes. This
is what we need to speak because I
see a lot of people giving the example
of Katija Rabiya Lawanha as a CEO. But
what they miss is that she was the
CEO,
but how she provided that safe space for
her husband.
And this is what ThrivingWise is. We have
a role model in our sera, in our
history, and we don't look on all the
aspects. So when you said, I was like,
yes, this is a good topic to talk
about because we have role models,
actual role models,
the buyers of the prophets and they
were successful
in every aspect and we can learn from
that.
Inshallah.
Inshallah.
Okay. So let's, let's kick this off with,
I guess,
why, you know, some people are wondering like,
well, why would you think this is a
this controversial
thing? Why would you even ask the question?
And I know there will be some sisters
who are like, well, why are we talking
about this? Of course, successful a successful woman
can be a good wife.
Why is this a question?
Why are we even having this conversation? Is
it obvious that a successful woman can be
a great wife, or are there challenges that
come with
that career financial status success
that make it a challenge for her to
be Oh, and in fact, before we go
there, woah, woah, woah, hey,
Back up. Back up. Back up.
We talked about our definition of a successful
woman. Right?
What is a good wife then? If we're
asking about successful women being good wives, what's
your understanding of a good wife? Because that
will be something that people will be like,
well, what do you mean when you say
a good wife? So what do you think?
What would how would you define
a good wife?
Okay. So I would go with a good
wife is someone who
clearly submits to Allah. She has a deep
connection with Allah. Her first her first point
of call is Allah for everything. Right? Number
1. But let's look at character traits. I
believe a good wife is submissive.
She obeys her
husband. She's agreeable. She's respectful.
And she's loyal to him. And I know
these words, submission and obeying, really irks women,
especially when you're an in now listen. I'm
an independent woman. I I've lived the independent
life, so I know exactly what goes on
in a woman. But she's like, do I
we need to submit to a man because
I make my own money. Right? And this
is the reason why this conversation is needed
because we've been lied to. We've been lied
to as women saying that,
if you if you make your money, you
get your degree, you have your education,
you will attract a man who wants to
protect and provide for you. And I'm not
saying that's not possible. What I'm saying is
men have a natural,
genetic code, the protecting and providing gene. So
when you tell a man that I'm independent,
I don't need a man, I'm successful as
I am, you activate his protecting and providing
gene against you.
And this is the reason why women who
are independent, they find it difficult to,
be with a man who wants to provide
for them and protect them and be masculine
with them simply because you have this belief
that being independent is what makes you successful.
It may make you successful in the societal
norms that we're in, but but not when
it comes to our marriage.
What about you, Mary Anne? What do you
think? What's a good wife?
I agree with, what, sister Rosaline said, and
I would add something from my experience. Like,
it's been only 4 years that I've started
working and I've been married for 20 years.
And I always have this mindset that if
I'm going to work, my marriage will suffer
because I will not be able to have
a balance.
And this is what even I was told
when I was, I started working on,
4 years back, I was told that your
marriage will suffer. Your kids will suffer. You
will not be able to,
balance everything.
But this is wrong. And
I can a woman can balance.
And when she knows her priorities,
when she knows that Allah is the center
of everything, when she has self discipline and
healthy boundaries
And like what Cicely Roseline said, the man
is the protector, the provider. The roles are
not mixed up. She understands her role, the
nurturer,
the carer, and the husband's role as a
provider and the protector.
That is not mixed.
That is a successful wife. That is a
good wife. Alhamdulillah.
So are you saying then that
your success let's let's call it, professional success
and use that as the kind of the
catch all for,
you know, education,
academic achievement,
money, status, wealth, businesses,
career, etcetera. Let's just call it your professional
success.
Are you saying then that the your professional
success is almost separate from your identity as
a wife?
No. No. It's it's not. It's part
of it,
but you have to balance it. Like, you
know, it's you're wearing different hats.
Okay. So if you're successful outside the house
Yeah. You are successful inside the house as
well, but as a role of a wife
in the role of a wife.
Okay. So you're agreeing with me that they
are 2 different hats, basically? That one hat
is okay. K. Cool. Yeah. What about you,
Rosalind? What do you think about that?
So the question was about their roles. Right?
Do we believe is that they're different?
Is no. No. No. Is
professional success because at the end of the
day, we we know the reason we're having
this conversation in the community is that we
know how many women,
have achieved success in their professional in their
professional lives. This generation,
probably more than any other generation, certainly in
this country,
many of our mothers who came from back
home were not
professionally successful. I would say the majority. Would
you agree? Just give me a thumbs up
if you'd agree. The majority
of the women who came from back home,
they were stay at home mothers if they
could be. Right? Obviously, if there was she's
a widow.
You know, if there was a divorce, then
she probably had to work somehow, some way.
But even then, it typically wasn't like she
was successful. She just had to work. Right?
So that generation,
our mothers so if we are, like, in
our thirties and forties, our mothers were more
or less stay at home moms, certainly in
the Muslim community.
So our generation is, I think, the first
generation of women who are actually experiencing
success
at a at a large, you know, at
a to a to a very large extent.
Doctors, lawyers, dentists, entrepreneurs,
PhDs, all of it. Right? So the question
I was asking is,
do you then think that because what we
tend to do is obviously, we work hard,
don't we, to get through our education, to
do well,
to achieve. We work hard for that.
So what happens, I think, for us as
women
is that becomes a part of our identity,
and we feel that that's a part of
what a man admires in us and what
a man wants in us and what he
prizes in us. The question I'm asking, firstly,
is is that true,
or is it as I think what Merian
was saying is that your work in the
world as a professional is one hat,
and your wife work is a different hat?
And Yeah. To get balance, you have to
be able to change hats. So, Rosalie, what
are your thoughts on that?
I I 100% agree with that. And so
when I'm working in my business like, I
run a company, multi 6 figures. When I'm
in that situation, when I'm running my business,
giving my team what to do, I'm in
my masculine role. I'm giving I'm delegating. I'm
making decisions, especially financial ones. I'm receiving cash.
I'm spending money. I'm paying things. Right? So
I'm in my masculine role. When it comes
to my husband, when I when my husband
comes home, I surrender. I'm in my femininity.
I'm being the woman
that he needs.
I'm being that woman that is his safe
space, his warmth. Right? So I'm not making
decisions in my home. I'm not trying to
lead him. I'm not trying to compete with
him. I I see no competition at home.
He leads. He makes the decisions. I submit
to him. I obey him, and I enjoy
doing it. So I feel like what happened
is,
we saw our mothers
going through hardship,
and we thought they are being traumatized. And
I see this a lot. I hear this
conversation a lot that our mothers put up
with a lot.
Right? And props to them. My mom, she
was a single mom. She raised 6 kids
by by herself.
My dad was a polygamous man. He has
3 wives. I have 15 rubbers. So my
mom had to be in that situation where
she had to submit to the role that
she's in, but the thing is my mom
enjoyed it. And I think I'll this is
the thing that I don't see being talked
about a lot. So did you misread that?
Sorry. Sorry, sis. I just wanna ask. So
did you misread
her life or
maybe not misread, but do you feel that
we tend to look at our mothers and
maybe previous generations of women through a
lens that is a modern lens, just probably
more of a feminist lens, and then we
see trauma, abuse, or it wasn't fair. Did
you did you would you say that? Yes.
Definitely. Not I I I wanna put the
the, the clause here that, of course, abuse
is bad. But for my mom, she genuinely
loved being a mom. That was I remember
my mom telling me. She was like, the
greatest success I've had is having new children.
That's how I see myself as successful. So
I I already had that in my mind
growing up that being a mom makes you
successful.
Leading the next generation,
raising like, I'm Muslim now. I wasn't born
Muslim, but raising Muslim children is legacy.
Your job, your career, your money is not
gonna come with you when you die. Your
deeds will, and your children are part of
that. So for me,
success outside outside in the world is for
the world. It's for, I guess, for women,
it's for for their passion, to keep them,
to keep the passion alive in their lives.
But in your marriage, the success is how
great, how how you can cultivate
the safety,
how you can nurture the home. I feel
that's more successful in the home. Mhmm. Mhmm.
Mhmm. So this is this is interesting. Right?
Because
you know how many I have heard, as
you say, so many women saying, my mom
put up with so much. My mom just,
you know, stayed with my dad. She didn't
do this. She didn't do that. She put
her life on hold, etcetera.
And,
of course, they disagree with her their mother's
choices and feel that their mother should have
done otherwise.
And I I wonder how many of us
owe our current success
to our mother's sacrifice.
Oh, yeah. How many of us
would be who or where we are today
if our mother had pushed back, left,
rebelled?
I don't whatever. Whatever. Right? Whatever other options
or gone out to work for that matter,
gone back to school and done her own
thing. Whatever the case may be,
I don't think we think about that enough.
I think we No. We tend to think
that I I would have been the same
as I am now, but at least my
mom would have had a life. But have
you ever stopped to think that maybe the
fact that you had the grounding you had,
the stability you had, the family home you
had, the meals you had, or the constant,
attention or presence of your mother,
you got that because she sacrificed, and now
you're judging her for her sacrifice. I don't
know. It's weird to me. Me.
Exactly. Naomi, you hit you hit the nail
on the head. You know me? The the
woman I am today, I owe it to
a law festival but to my mom. The
way my mom was, the way my mom
raised me was, yes, to be successful. She
did raise me to be successful, to go
for it, to to live your dreams. But
she should always say to me, I love
being a mom. Like, she had her issues.
She was a single mom. She she had
to figure it out, but she said she
would not have it any other way. And,
of course, like, that's a testimony. That's a
legacy that she left behind. She left children
behind who are gonna carry on her legacy,
and I find that more successful than just
making money.
What about you, Maniam?
Yes. Definitely. I am I am like this,
over here sitting in front of you is
because of my mother.
Her upbringing, her
her sacrifice,
her giving up her career. She was a
career woman, but, obviously, after the kids, she
gave up.
So
I am who I am. It's because of
her, and I cannot even do what she
did for my kids. You know? I I
missed that.
I cannot like I'm like
okay the house should smell like my mom's
house full of aroma and I cannot do
that. I miss that And this is something
I want to learn. And I'm like, how
did she do it without any help, without
any,
family near her? She did everything. She made
sure that her kids were raised
with values, with roots, even though we were
away from our country. She made sure that
we remembered our culture.
So that is success.
And I am,
a wife, a mom, a businesswoman.
Alhamdulillah, it's because of her.
If she wouldn't have done it, I wouldn't
be here.
And it's subhanAllah, I agree. I I think
that's so profound. And, you know, you see
again, I think
I think one of the reasons we we
struggle with this is that, you know,
in the society that we live in,
achievement for a woman
is always individualistic.
It's always about her
individual
actualization.
Right?
And and and the the narrative is, it
doesn't matter what the price is. It doesn't
matter who suffers or who misses out, as
long as that woman crushes it. And you
see it all the time, right? Because you'll
see people being lionized and being put on
this pedestal because they've done this and they've
done that and they've done this and they've
done that even though you know because maybe
they've admitted it or because the kids have
come out afterwards to say,
like, living with my mum was *, or
I never saw my mum, or I never
knew my mum, or I was raised by
nannies. Do you know what I mean? We
had everything materially,
but there's attachment issues, there's resentment there. You
know, there's so much other stuff that they
don't talk about.
The price of that woman who, in this
case, we're talking about women who have children.
Right?
The price of that woman's
single-minded
pursuit of that goal.
Me and and again, Rosalind, you mentioned about
being in our masculine. Right? And I agree
with you. I think
through school
and through work and business and the career,
we are in our masculine, right? Especially if
we're crushing it. I mean it's Grant Cardone
in the place, right? It's it's it's all
this testosterone,
it's it's go go go, it's achievement, it's
winning, very masculine energy, right?
So how can a woman who is used
to being in her masculine and is crushing
it in her masculine,
how can she
how can she relax into her feminine? Is
it possible? If so, how?
Yes. It's definitely possible. I do it all
the time. So then the magic the magic
words are I get to do this. So
when I'm finishing up my desk, so I
only want Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday, that's the
times that I'm the CEO. I let my
kids know, listen. Mommy's gonna be the CEO
now. I'm still here for you, but I'm
spending time at work. I'm gonna work. I'm
gonna come back, and we're gonna spend some
time together. So I make the boundaries clear
with my children. So I'm the CEO. When
I'm the CEO and I finish, I close
my laptop, close my phone, so I get
to be a wife.
I get to be a mom alhamdulillah.
How amazing is it that I'm a wife
and a mom and a CEO? I get
to choose and I get to have it
all. Allah has given me this gift. Allah
has given me this blessing, and I wanna
utilize it. I'm gonna use it. I'm gonna
be so grateful for it. And this is
how I shift. So I make sure I
have clear boundaries because usually what it is,
when we are working
and we have to shift, the guilt comes
up. Just naturally as women, we feel guilty.
Okay. I have to I want I want
to do this. I'm working on my business,
and now I feel guilty that I'm not
spending time with my children and my husband.
Now my husband, he runs his business. He's
a civil engineer. He works, like, 7 till
7, so I don't really see him all
day until in the evening. But for me,
it was a mom guilt that came up
a lot. Like, am I being a good
mom? Will my pet will my kids hate
me? Will they not love me? But the
more I communicate with them, I say to
them, listen to like, I love you guys.
I can't wait to see you again. I
can't wait to finish work and come back
and talk to you, and we're gonna spend
some time together. That usually helps. Mhmm. Mariam,
I know that you've dealt with this as
a ladies in your in your groups and
maybe personally as well. What's your perspective?
How can you switch from the masculine to
feminine? Is it possible?
Yes. Definitely.
For me,
healthy boundaries,
the timing. Like, for me, 4 o'clock, I
switch off in the evening.
Mhmm. Because I homeschool, so, you know, kids
are always with me. I'm schooling them and
all. But, but 4 o'clock,
I switch off konkiki. My phone, my emails,
everything goes to the next day, and that's
when I take rest.
I kind of prepare myself for the my
husband to come home because now much of
my kids are growing up. They don't need
me that much. Mhmm. They do need me
emotionally. So that I do at bedtime
or morning time or breakfast time. That's allocated
to my kids whenever they need me. But
when my husband comes, my kids knows
that Baba is going to come home
and we don't need to disturb mama and
Baba before Oh,
it's mama and baba time. That's so cute.
My son comes in, and he's like, can
I watch this show with you? I'm like,
no, baba. You cannot. This is mama, mama's
time. He's like, but this is for kids.
I can.
Yes. It's for kids, but this is mama
mama's time. So, you know, making clear to
the kids that, yes, you can watch,
but this is mamamala's time, and you need
to respect that.
SubhanAllah. So what you're talking about is not
even just, like, sort of leaving putting the
work to the side for the sake of
the kids, you know, but it's also putting
work and kids aside for the sake of
a husband of the husband.
I wanna talk about this a little bit
because I did a podcast with sister, Neha.
It was fantastic podcast. We had a great
conversation.
And one of the things I said to
her is that in our community,
I think it's
partially acceptable now online, yeah, in online spaces
for a woman to make some kind of
sacrifice for her children. Right? That's considered
natural. Like, you know, most of us have
to do it at some point or another.
But for a woman to prioritize her husband
and actually say, I'm not gonna do that
because my husband whatever. Right? My husband would
would prefer me not to, my husband's coming
home, or I'm I'm I've planned such and
such with my husband.
It's almost like a taboo now, like you
would never say that because everyone will be
like, what? I don't know. Do you agree
that this is that, like, there is that
there is this kind of like, oh, what's
what's a husband? What is what is what's
he supposed to like, what does he deserve?
Like, you know, like, he's a grown man.
What are your thoughts on that?
Yes. It is. You you have to pamper
him. You have have to make him feel
like a king. And I say, why not?
Allah has blessed you with a husband.
Yes. He's got his flaws. You have your
flaws. Everyone has their weaknesses, but
look at the positives.
And I tell my ladies when your husband
comes home,
make him feel like a king.
Dress up for him.
Make the house smell nice
that he's tired. He's coming home from work.
Welcome him
and appreciate him. And the ladies were like,
how do we appreciate a husband?
I mean, did you say that?
And then one of the ladies was like,
I haven't said it in a long time.
Subhanallah.
She was like, did you say I love
you? She's like, no.
Oh,
wow. Marriage. I'm like, yes.
After marriage, it's halal. You you cannot stop
plotting with your husband,
and you cannot stop dating. You have to.
And it's not about going out on date
nights. I understand you have small kids. You
have
certain,
things that you cannot go out on date
night. You can have it in your home.
And I, I, I tell my ladies, make
your homes, your, all your rooms, your love
cottage
and humble,
nourish him. And, you know, that's what a
wife is supposed to do.
So if you're not gonna switch off from
your work or from your responsibilities,
you cannot do that. So preparing yourself before
he comes home, resting, taking care of self
care
is very important for you to be able
to give it to him.
I love that. This is so good. Rosalyn,
come on. Pour on put some spice on
it, some salt for more salt. I don't
think.
That's so
good. So I wanna I wanna I wanna
add this as well, and I love what
Maureen just said. Like, do we do as
women,
it it reminded me of this. When I
first met my husband, I asked him, what's
your what's your what's your dream? What's your
big vision?
What's the vision that you have for your
life? And he said to me his big
vision was to have a big family. And
just coming to a point of what Mariam
said about, you know, being appreciative of your
husband, Like, he's a blessing. For me, when
I ask my husband that question, what's your
vision, I realize I'm able to take on
his vision. I'm able to support him in
it, and I know that I'll be able
to help him, nurture him, love on him
through his vision. I think it's like a
big thing that us women not do with
men. Like, we think about what our man
can give us, but what can we give
them towards their dreams, goals,
the vision? How can you fit in that?
That's what that's what came up for me.
Yeah. And, you know, subhanAllah, again, just as
we were saying that it's considered, you know,
kind of culturally acceptable to make sacrifices or
prioritize your kids, but less so to prioritize
your husband,
that's another thing as well, you know, this
idea of
bringing something to the table. Right? Now I
I came across an old post from a
sister. I don't know how old it was,
but quite old.
And she had echoed this sentiment that if
someone asks me what do I bring to
the table, I'm a tell them I am
the damn table.
Okay? And, there's an old post. I think
this is before we started actually having these
conversations openly,
but
the idea of bringing value to a man's
life,
how do you feel about that? I mean,
is that a question that women should be
asking? And let's just as always, disclaimer.
This applies to you if you have a
decent man. Okay? Yeah. If you have an
abusive situation, if you're in you're being neglected
or anything crazy, guys, don't bring craziness to
the chat, please. Okay? Or anything crazy, guys,
don't bring craziness to the chat, please. Okay?
And don't get triggered if your part your
situation is crazy and actually needs to be
dealt with.
We're not talking about those situations. We're not
out here telling you to be the perfect
wife to somebody who is, you know, is
is is not even doing the bare minimum
according to
Allah. So, please, let's stay focused to those
who have a decent situation. Right? So
should we be thinking of how we can
bring because what you're saying is that you
you want to be of value to your
husband
with regards to his mission and his vision.
Is that right?
Right. Because the masculine is to lead. Right?
So where are we all going?
Where where where are you, like, driving the
ship? Because I'm on, I'm on board. And
for my husband, to have a big family,
he's polygynous,
he's a polygynous man who wants lots of
children and I was like, can I handle
that? And I was like, yeah. I can
handle that. I can handle him being polygynous
because I was raised in polygyny. My husband
my dad has 3 wives, so I understood
polygyny from a from a young age. And
also, I understand the nature of men is
just to spread their seed and then naturally,
polygyny polygyny is by nature.
So
being part of his vision was like, okay.
I can support you in that. And for
him, I asked him, how do you need
support in that? He just he said just
to be agreeable,
you know, be loyal and respectful. And that's
the value I bring to my husband. I
don't try and compete with him in money.
I don't try and compete with him in
decisions. I'm the one who's saying to him,
babe, what shall we do? You're the leader
here. I'm I'm looking for you. I'm looking
for you to make the decision. And just
putting him into that role and understanding his
role as a man in my life, as
the masculine in my life, has helped bring
value to his life. So I think for
us women, we have to realize our value
is in our femininity.
How much we lean back,
how much we surrender,
how much we submit, and how much we
obey.
I think that's where the key thing is.
And there's no, again disclaimer, this is not
for abusive relationships, this is for a decent
man who fears Allah, who's trying his best.
You need to ask yourself, the value I
bring, is it going to help his mission?
Do I want to be part of the
mission? Do I want to be under his
leadership? Do I trust this man to take
it where he needs to go? And that
that's a big question that I think a
lot of us don't ask. We just think,
oh, because I make money, I I have
a degree. I have a
job. I'm taking care of myself. That's the
value I bring. But men naturally don't
like that. Men, like I said, the protect
and provide a gene is activated the moment
you say I'm independent. They just think in
their mind that she doesn't need me. Nothing.
You don't need me. Right? Yep. Let me
let me just fall back.
Go ahead, My name.
100% with what what sister Rosamie said. And
I would say this that, you know, the
woman,
if she has the confidence in herself,
her self esteem is like
the next level.
She can inspire. She can motivate. She can
change the mindset.
She can help her husband succeed
so much just by inspiring,
not by saying anything because this question comes
to me a lot that my husband is
not on lean. How can I help my
husband to come and pray or do follow
the Dean the way I am doing? And
I always say, you're not his mother. You're
his wife.
You be the one.
You be the one who has that immense
confidence
so that you become attractive
just in an emotional way, not only in
a sexual way, but in an emotional way
that he gets inspired
and he says, okay, she is doing something
and this is calling me. This is positive.
Let me try it because it happens. It
has happened, alhamdulillah, in my marriage.
And I have seen this in my clients
also. And the most difficult part for women
to let go of this is their ego.
It's like, why?
Why? If if he's not doing something the
way they want,
they're like, why is he not doing it?
I'm like, let it be. He's your own
human being.
You have to accept him as a as
a man who's grown up.
You cannot change him. You can inspire him.
You can motivate him.
You can be the backbone, even the backbone
of the family.
Yeah. But you can lead from behind as
well.
Allah's watching. The reward is from Allah. You
know, I I feel we we want validation
women as like, I'm the one who's doing
it and that kind of mixes
in. But when you are grounded that my
reward is from Allah, all my actions, my
intentions are for Allah and my reward is
from Allah.
You will see how your marriage will change,
how your husband will actually turn around and
come back to you and ask you
that,
okay, I need help in this in this
decision making. Can you help me? And you'll
be like, what? What just happened?
My man would never come to me. He
would never ask me or even tell me
about financial situations.
But now he's opening up to me because
you have given him a chance.
So woman has that capacity
to motivate and inspire the man. Alhamdulillah.
SubhanAllah.
I think,
JazakAllah Khayna for that, and it's the ladies
in the in the chat here.
Y'all are teaching today.
I love this. This is so raw. This
conversation is so good.
Wonderful.
So sis says, as a single mother working
full time as a nurse, I was operating
fully in my masculine.
I am now a housewife and love it,
but it took major reprogramming
to operate in my femininity.
Mhmm.
It's layered, but it was so hard trying
to operate between the 2 effectively. I think
it is it is like a a tough
act to kind of be like this kind
of,
you know, really kind of alpha out there
and then kind of come home and and
be sweet.
But, I think I think another thing as
well that we need to remember, again, as
Muslims, we have the blueprint, right, which is
really, really helpful because we know within the
marriage that there's a hierarchy in terms of
responsibility.
Right?
Let's be clear. We're talking about responsibility here
because,
there was a a a reel that went
out today where I was talking about when
a man is basically having to try and
prove himself to the woman that he wants,
and my advice is that a man should
marry a woman who thinks that he's great.
That's that's what I think. I think the
power dynamic
in a relationship where a woman sees the
man as, oh my god. Yes.
Like, I I yes. You know? Or or
let's let's let's let's let's make this more
nuanced.
Where the woman has come to the conclusion
that
having this man in my life is a
blessing. I am blessed to have this man
in my life for whatever reason, for whatever
reason.
I think that that helps her to be
in her feminine with him. But do you
guys agree? Do you think that because other
people were saying, well, that that's not right.
Like, he you know? Because I was saying
that
Hollywood tells us that it's the man's job
to cater to the woman and to please
her and make sure that she's happy.
Whereas the dean puts a lot of emphasis
on you as a woman pleasing your husband.
Right? And then people are saying, aren't we
supposed to please and cater to each other?
And I don't think it's the same. I
think what the man is required by the
deen to give to his wife is not
the same as what the woman is required
to give to the man. Am I am
I wrong?
I agree. 100%. I wanna device a hadith,
and I it just came to my mind.
When Khadija
when she was about serve the prophet
with his soup and angel Jibreel came down
and said to the prophet
tell Khadija, she's about to come to you
with some soup. Tell her Allah sends his
salaams.
Now I want you to understand the conversation
here that Khadija was
wealthy. But in that moment, she was serving
her husband.
And in that moment, Jibreel came down and
he said, send the salam. Send salam to
Allah. And she's got a place in Jannah.
Ladies, I always don't understand, like, the gravity
of this, but it it really gives me
goosebumps to think that she knew has it
she knew her place, that she's wealthy in
in the world. She had many people who
wanted to marry her, but she chose the
prophet sallallahu alaihi wa sallam simply basically honesty.
He was honest. When she said to him
when she, when she, mentioned that she was
to marry him, the prophet sallallahu alaihi wa
sallam said, I'm tall. What can I give
her? He was honest.
He didn't say, yeah. You know, I've got
20 camels. Let me try and figure no.
He just said, I'm poor. So you didn't
try and finesse her, you mean? No. Right.
Exactly.
Keep an impression,
and it's about building your relationship on honesty.
And another thing that came to mind was
throughout the whole their their marriage,
when he used to go to the cave
to meditate, and he he had a vision.
His vision was he wants to change the
corruption of society. He used to meditate on
it, think about people worshiping idols, like people
not caring for the orphans. He used to
think about this. So he had a a
something in him that he wants to change
that. When angel when the angel came to
him and he ran to Khadija,
she'll say to him, oh, okay. Get up.
Like, you know, you're a man. Come on,
man. Like, she said to him, you know,
Allah will never disgrace you. Right. And this
is what this is what Hollywood teaches us
that if the man is not just always
a man and he's not like, he's always
just acting like a man, he's so aggressive
and so, that's what you should look for
in a man, or a man's gonna be
constantly buying you gifts and showering me with
love with gifts. That's the one that you'll
that's the one women want, by the way.
That's the one. Not so much the first
one, but that second one there, the guy,
you know, who is just, like, at your
feet in adoration,
giving you all that you want, fulfilling all
your dreams, buying you whatever you want, going
wherever you wanna go,
that is apparently
the ideal guy.
And then you have a child. Right? Because
because at that you become the mother in
that relationship because child is admiring you now,
and you're the it's like you're the admiration,
and it's that's not the dynamic you want
in a relationship. You want honesty. You want
it to be duty, and you want your
husband to understand his role.
I have a I have a I just
wanna just jump on this thing here because
I've asked this to to to this came
up on the Fed Income Podcast because
from what I know,
I've I you know, guys, you know me
on this channel. I've talked about simping before.
Okay? And I I make no bones about
that. What do we what is simping? Simping
is investing
time, energy, and resources
in a someone or a woman specifically who
does not appreciate or deserve it. So
in a situation where the man is constantly
kind of
trying to prove his love. Right? And he's
being kind of put through these tests to
say, get me this, get me that. I
wanna go here. I wanna go there. You
know, get us this. I wanna be like
so and so. I wanna do that. And
he does it every single time. How does
that impact the woman's respect level for him,
like, after that's been happening for a while?
Because he's doing it in order to be
the love of her life. Right? He wants
these actions that she's telling him she wants
to result in what he wants, which is
a wife who is loving and loyal. Right?
Is that how it works from your experience?
No. Farida says it diminishes.
Mariam, what do you say? Do you think
it how does is it is that the
equation?
Do everything your wife wants, and she will
be loving and loyal forever.
Talk to that. No.
In my opinion
and my experience,
the husband loses respect
for the wife.
They just grow apart,
and and they might be living
under the same roof,
raising their kids, but they they will be
living like a roommate.
So panel If the wife is never satisfied,
she wants the pleasures.
She wants,
things that are gonna satisfy her
only from the outside.
The husband is tired of just giving and
giving and giving.
He's not getting what he wants. So both
are unsatisfied.
So the respect
will be lost.
This will,
push them to move
away from each other instead of coming close
to each other
because
submitting
and,
fulfilling each other's emotional needs is what brings
you closer.
And the the the emotional need that we
know we have as women is to feel
safe. Right? Is to feel safe. And if
your man is weak, how can you be
safe? If he is a pushover,
how can you feel safe? Right? And this
is, I guess, a quest it's a a
conversation that I think men will appreciate,
but I would like women to hear this
as well. Right? Because a lot of the
time, as women, we end up talking in
echo chambers,
where it's only women's stories and women's perspectives
that are being shared, and women, we tend
to you know, you know, we tend to,
like, back each other up, right?
But I what I like about this space
is that we're being very honest, and I
think we're being balanced as well. We are
talking about what we know from a woman's
side and from the man's side, and women
need to know how men think just like
men need to know how women think. Right?
But, Rosalie, what are your thoughts on that,
about the weakness and the desire and the
respect? How does it all work?
Right. Definitely. Just like you mentioned that, women,
we look towards our man to protect and
provide for us. So if he's constantly
doing everything without
doing what we say, then we end up
becoming the man in the relationship, like, subconsciously.
I wanna talk about the subconscious well here
that women that men who want to, like,
sing, they usually have mommy issues. And what's
happening is you've attracted a woman who has
daddy issues. So you're both trying to figure
out and trying to heal yourself through the
things that you're doing for each other. So
you're over giving because you have to over
give to your mom to get her love,
and then your the woman is asking for
too much because she never got that attention
from her dad. So when you heal those
2 issues, usually what happens is either you
leave each other or you end up growing
together. But definitely as women, like,
being able to manipulate your man, it it
you are testing his strength, and you're knowing
that he's not masculine enough for you.
Yeah. 100%. And, you know, you you mentioned
about,
actually, I've seen a comment on YouTube that
just sparked a thought because
when you are a professionally successful woman, you
typically have a lot of skill sets. Right?
You have skill sets with regards to finance,
marketing, planning, project management, etcetera.
And I think that that potentially is one
of the areas that can be a source
of contention
in the marriage, because
he feels as a Muslim man, most Muslim
men know they are meant to lead. Right?
And they assume when they get married, they
are going to lead. Now, if he chose
a woman who has that professional success, or
if he does not choose a sister because
of her professional accolades,
can we say that that is because he
fears that there is going to be a
clash of authority,
that she is going to be pushing back,
that she's going to be arguing, she's going
to be wanting to be like, make decisions
with him or always challenges decisions,
Is
that a valid fear
that men may have?
I think it is because when women Or
concern. Let's use the word concern so we
don't upset anyone. Like, a valid concern.
Yeah. Because, I I think for men, their
associate education would be unagreeable.
I think that's what it is. And that's
a valid concern because when we mean this
look. The feminist movement was to get women
out of the home and into the world,
the capitalist world, and make money. And they
did that through education.
And men have gone through the education system,
and they've seen women and how they operate
in the world is very masculine.
So when you come with your accolades and
you come with your degrees and you come
with your money, they are natural. Like I
said, the protect and provide the jeans will
turn on, and they'll be like, I don't
need to protect her. I don't need to
provide for her because she has everything she
needs. So And the thing is and and
and the thing is what's crazy is I
hear sisters saying stuff like that, like online.
Especially like young sisters as well, unmarried sisters,
saying I'm strong, I'm independent, I don't need
no man, no man's gonna tell me this,
this, this, this, this. Sis, you are a
waving red flag right now. I'm just gonna
tell you. And if you do actually hope
to marry a Muslim at some point who
has any izzah, just a man who has
any
izzah, don't put that stuff out on social
media, please.
Don't get people excited about, you know, like,
yeah. That I know that's right. You know?
That's that's and that's all, period. You know,
you see in the comments, like, everybody's like,
yay.
No, guys.
No. No.
No. No. No. No. Unless
go on, man. Especially if you wanna get
married. If you wanna get married, you have
to learn the language of a person you're
gonna marry, which is a man. You have
to understand the language of a man. Right?
Women understand we understand our language as much
as possible because we're women. But when you
are gonna get married to a man, you're
not gay you're not taking on a child.
You're taking on a human being. He's a
masculine, and you have to respect his role
in your life. So, again, when it comes
to our independence, we've been taught this very
misconstrue conception that independence means you can be
disrespectful towards men now. Your education means you
can be disrespectful towards men now. Your money
means you can be disrespectful towards men now.
And that's why the climate has happened. Yeah.
Yeah. Well, you need to be right. You
have to have a say on everything, you
know? So just just like that kind of
and, you know, and again, I think there's
part of it is the professional stuff. The
other is feminism. You know? Because feminism basically
problematizes all masculine behavior. So if a man
tries to explain something, he's he's mansplaining.
You know? If he tries to protect you
or or or offers to do something for
you, he's chauvinistic and he's saying that you
can't do it. You know? If he gets,
you know, jealous about something, it's his toxic
toxic masculinity coming out. You know what I
mean? If he doesn't want a boss babe,
he's insecure.
Maryam, talk to that. Right?
Yes. I was going to say that that,
you know,
it's it goes both ways.
Some men like women like that, that who
are in that element, who are energetic
and who have all these,
feminism. Sorry.
They come with the accolades and success and
money,
But that man
is strong,
and that man knows how to be the
provider and the caretaker for the woman.
And that woman is comfortable
being
under the man. So it goes both ways.
If one is out of balance, then it
affects the relationship.
So having those conversations
before the marriage Yeah. And having that mindset
open mindset, I would say that, okay, he's
a man.
I'm getting into a relationship.
It's new
relationship needs work. It needs vulnerability.
I need to develop trust and friendship first,
and it's gonna take time. It's not like,
okay. He's not listening to me. I want
out. No, you have to have Sabar.
You have to have patience because you are
developing a relationship.
It doesn't happen overnight.
So, yes, men like successful women,
as long as
it doesn't overpower
him.
And
I I I agree with you that a
lot of young ladies are saying that I'm
independent. I don't need a man. Why do
I need to get married and get sucked
into all those any laws and all those
things?
This narrative
needs to change.
A man is a woman's pride and honor.
We have to take that. Like, I say
it that my husband is my mentor.
My husband is my blessing. No matter how
many fights we have, whatever, but I am
here because of him.
And he is my honor and my pride.
So we have to have that, you know,
like a like a crown, but why not?
I say, why not?
He's a blessing.
He is doing so much.
Maybe he's not able to, able to provide
you financially, all those things which you are
craving for, but he's giving you something else.
So look for what he's giving you rather
than what's missing.
It goes both way. Both the men and
the women need to
be secure,
confident
when they come into a relationship
because that's how they wanna make an impact
on the next generation.
100%.
And I want to,
I want to address the issue of, you
know, when, you know, women will say, my
husband's not a leader.
Right? He doesn't take decisions. He doesn't make
decisions.
He expects me to do everything. We hear
this, guys. We're not gonna sugarcoat it. Okay?
Because we hear the whole spectrum. Right? And
I would like to, at this point,
just touch on the issue of the mother
son relationship.
Because from what I've seen in the conversations
that I've had, often
a man who is not in his masculine
in that sense, is not able or willing
to lead in his relationship,
something happened with his mother or his father.
So his father was either distant
or absent,
right? And he was from a family with
a very strong overbearing
mother who
somehow, someway managed to emasculate him.
So he himself is not a fully fledged
man. Maybe he didn't see it in his
father, or his mother managed to love it
out of him. I like to say, you
know how mothers can love smother it out
of them.
Let's talk a little bit because why I
bring this up is because we know,
you know, generationally,
this generation
will have the largest number of men and
women
raised in single mother households.
Right?
And that does have an impact. It has
an impact on girls, and it has an
impact on boys. But for the sake of
this conversation, so we're talking about leading and
masculinity,
what do you think about
how mothers,
especially mothers who don't have a masculine in
their lives, so they're not married, right,
how can they, even if there is one,
how can they avoid
emasculating their sons? How can they avoid stunting
their sons' development into a man who can
lead and inspire his wife's, confidence and trust?
Oh, this is such a good question, Aima.
And so I used to be a single
mom, and I was raising my son. My
son is 10 years old now. And one
thing I learned with my son was that
he,
when the children when they're younger, the boys,
they will emulate you as a woman.
Right? It's just natural in them. All kids
do that. They don't realize their role until
they're at the age of 7. So for
my son, when I started realizing he's acting
like he's he's, like, really emotional and he's
been too much in his feelings, I had
to give him the talk. And after that,
I was like, Jacob, you're a boy.
You it doesn't matter how you feel. You
have to go and do it.
I know you don't feel like waking up
to play Fudger, but feelings are not facts.
And I had to be very harsh with
him even to the point when he used
to cry, but listen, cry it out. It's
cool. But you get back up again and
be a man. And I've always taught my
son is that being a man is an
honor. Like, it doesn't like, I always made
him realize that he's he's gonna transition from
boy to a man very early, and he's
gonna take on the role of, being responsible
for his wife, for his children, for his
sisters. He's gonna have a huge responsibility,
but I have to make it known to
him that feelings are not facts. And this
is why I've noticed And feelings change. And
feelings change. Right. And you can change your
own feelings as well.
Exactly.
So I like, when my husband,
he has a great relationship with his mom.
His mom is not overbearing.
His father was is very is very successful.
His father was always away, but he had
that constant,
His father was always away, but he had
that constant, thought and that constant discipline from
his mom that I don't care about your
feelings. Let's let's carry on. And that's
that's just how you have to raise boys.
You have to Let's let's carry on. And
that's that's just how you have to raise
boys. You have to raise boys to still
do it. It's duty. You have a duty
to protect and provide.
This is your duty. I know you don't
feel like doing it, but this is duty.
Allah's given me this duty as a man,
and you can say in the most loving
way. You don't have to be, like, aggressive,
but lovingly explain to them their role as
a man, I think that really helps.
That's a tough one, boy, because I know
that moms with their sons, you know what
we're like. We had a livestream actually about
how can mothers raise men.
And, you know, we had some very honest
people coming in the conversation and saying, like,
what his dad can do with him, I
I can't. I struggle. You know? The kind
of no nonsense
duty, as you said, you know, it doesn't
matter how you feel. You gotta get it
done, you know, persevere,
discipline, etcetera.
Mothers find it hard with their sons. But,
Merriam, what's your perspective on this?
My son has my,
the soft corner. He gets away with everything,
but that was when he was small. As
he's growing up, I can see that, yes,
it's a challenge for me.
And,
but what I'm doing, and I pray this
is beneficial
for other ladies as well. It's like, you
know,
making duas.
Firstly, making duas that you allah
grant me
mentors
that I can give to my son, provide
me that platform that I can give to
my son,
so that he looks up to somebody and
he grows up with that.
Because I know even some married women are
there, and their fathers are not involved. They
don't like to be involved. So what do
you do?
So you have to have those mentors around,
or if there is a grandparent
or an uncle,
get him close to them, then,
you know, you as a mother
teach, you'll have to teach him both sides,
like the soccer side, feeling the emotions,
respecting the woman in the house and opening
the door for the woman, pulling the chair.
If the woman is not feeling well going
and
doing the house chores, that side and plus
as well as the decision, the responsibilities
when he's small, giving him house chores. Okay.
This is your responsibility.
Groceries need to come put in the fridge,
your responsibility.
You are like that. And those things
add on. You can add on as he's
growing up. You can give him more responsibilities
and then
boundaries that if this is not done,
I'm sorry.
This is the boundary. This is There has
to be consequences.
We have to yeah. And moms, we have
to we have to man up, man. Like,
seriously,
mom's gotta man up.
You know, it it's it's I think what
I realized for myself after my children's father
passed away, Elayru Hamel, is my mothering
instinct is to to nurture, to protect,
you know, to to to make everything okay.
So I'm that mom that will sit with
you the day before your project is due,
and do the project with you, so that
you don't get into trouble at at school
and so that you don't,
you know, you don't go to school empty
handed and all the rest of the consequences,
right? But I know instinctively
that the father's approach would be, why did
you leave it to the last minute? Now
you have to take the consequence, and now
you're gonna you're just gonna have to wear
it. Right? So
it does take a lot of discipline for
us as mothers even
to not
overprotect
and cover for them and protect them from
the consequences
of their actions.
I think that that's a really big part
of it. And then I think the other
thing as well is, like you said, Maryam,
giving the boys increased responsibility
in line with the freedom. Right? Because I
think just because of their their makeup,
boys will eventually have more freedom necessary, like,
you know and and you have to because
you can't, like, keep a boy under you
all the time in the house. We always
say this, right? I used to think it
was sexist actually. I used to think it
was chauvinistic to say that. I used to
think you're just making excuses because you wanna
be on the women, on the girls.
But I think that there is something to
be said by the fact that
you're going to be a man, son.
You're gonna be a husband, Insha'Allah. You're going
to be a father,
and your family's gonna look to you to
protect them and lead them and figure stuff
out.
You might as well start learning how to
figure stuff out now and, like, make your
way in the world. Like, boys have to
make their way in the world. Right? They
have to go and become men.
Girls, there isn't that much of that. Certainly,
if we're talking about the roles within a
marriage, a girl doesn't have to go and
make her way in the world to be
a good wife,
but a man, a boy has to make
his way in the world to be a
good husband. Would you say that that's the
case?
Yes. 100%.
100%.
I agree with that.
That women are born with value, men have
to earn it. Yeah. So women are born
with their value. They're born with their beauty,
and that's what makes them attracted to the
to the opposite's gender, and men have to
work for their value. So a man knows
that if he talks too much, he's gonna
end up in a fight with someone. But
women, like, we're emotional. We know that someone's
gonna cater to us. So definitely, I think
for boys, like, you have to, speak to
that that protecting and providing nature of them.
And boys have it. My son has it
with his sisters.
Very protective of them. So you have to,
like, just
awaken it within within them and say, oh,
wow. I love the way you protect your
sisters. I love the way you do responsibilities.
I love the way you do your chores.
Yep. Yeah. And that appreciation needs to be
ingrained in the girls as well. Can I
just say? Because I've seen instances where
because we're trying to kinda swing the pendulum
the other way from what we maybe saw
growing up, where boys were catered to, and
the girls had to serve their brothers, and
the girls did all the housework, and the
boys did absolutely nothing. Right? Maybe.
So we wanna swing it the other way,
and we're like, no, he has to do
it himself. So he he asks his sister
to do something. The ins the instinctive response
is, do it yourself. And I think that
there is a danger of
pushing
it to the other extreme
where your daughters feel
no sense of gratitude to their brothers, or
maybe in your home your brothers, the boys
don't actually do things that the girls would
be grateful for. Right? So my son, I
remember,
Mahram duty is a big deal in our
house,
because
we we take taxis, and I don't send
the girls on their own in a taxi.
So either I'll take them or I'll ask
my son. And at one point, he started
to get annoyed by it. Right? Because he
was like, again, you know, like, blah.
And then I noticed that he had stopped
giving me any pushback, and I asked him.
I said, you know, I've noticed that every
time I ask you to take the girls
now, you you just say okay, and you
go. And I wanna thank you for that,
firstly. I really appreciate
it. But why? How come you're not giving
pushback anymore? Because he's only 16.
And he said, you know, I just I
see it as part of my Maham duty.
Like, I'm the man of the house.
I'm the the boy here. That's part of
my job. That's part of my role. So
I just decided to just accept that and
roll with it. And I was like,
thank you, son, but a kalofi. This is
very good.
But okay. So so moms, we've given you
guys some advice.
I I wanna talk to the, to what
you just said about men,
you know, have having to come into that
value. Right? And especially, I think we can
say, when it comes to marriage,
a woman is not the woman who's married
for 4 things, right, her beauty, her lineage,
her wealth, and her deen.
You don't have to go out and strive
really for any of those. You just have
them by the time you're, you know, 18,
20, whatever. You have those things.
Whatever family you've come from, that's where you
came from. Whatever money you have, whether whether
it's yourself or your family, that's what you
have. Your beauty,
You have it in abundance. You're married at
that point, but a boy does not get
married just because of his beauty or his
wealth. Well, wealth is good. No. Wealth is
we like the wealth.
But Allah
talks about, you know,
So he has to have the skills of
leadership
that an 18 year old typically does not
have. He has to have some life experience
first. He has to have taken on some
responsibility.
He has to have made his way in
the world in order to have a family,
whereas a woman doesn't have to do that.
So
if we're talking about just so we we
we we we we are even handed here,
If we're talking about the the burden of
performance that is on men because the whole
issue of successful women
and whether they make good wives is the
issue of competition.
Right?
Is she going to firstly,
successful women want successful men.
Wealthy women typically want a man who has
the same or more as, than than she
does. Right? An educated woman typically wants a
man who is the same level of education
or more. That's the hypergamy, right?
This is part of the issue that we
are having at the moment in the Muslim
community because by the time a lot of
women have reached the stage where they have
a masters, where they've got, you know, money
and career, etcetera, maybe they've put off marriage,
They're 26, 27, on on their way to
30.
By that time,
the men who have the same status or
more
are often already married, and they married somebody
younger.
So
let's talk about
the
how men can
qualify, if you like, for the women that
they want, any woman that they want. Right?
Because as you said,
Rosalyn, both of you, you and we we've
been saying,
women are looking for a leader.
Women are looking for a provider, a protector,
somebody who makes them feel safe, someone that
they feel safe submitting to, But that puts
a burden on performance on the man.
He has to show up as his best
self. He has to develop him self. Right?
He can't just come out at 19 and
say, I'm ready, ladies. Come and get me.
And any woman is gonna just, like, say,
okay. Yes. I'll submit to you. So what
are the qualities that we we would like
to encourage
our sons and the men in our lives
to work towards, to to to aspire to
in order for them to be able to
lead their wives no matter how successful they
are?
Oh god. This is such a good question.
So the main thing that came up for
me, I'm looking at the prophet
and I
mentioned before about how
he takes his responsibilities
as a man. Does he accept them with
honor? Does he accept them with,
gratitude? Does he accept them with like, he
understands the gravity of what he's meant to
do in this world with his wife? Or
does he think that it should just be
given to me? Like, you should just submit
to me because I'm a man. Those kind
of men, like, they haven't earned their value.
You know that they haven't earned their value
because just saying to you, I'm a man.
You're a woman. You submit to me. That's
not what you're looking for. You're looking for
a man who can be honest. So I
can only relate to my my my experience
that when I met my husband, and he
told me honestly his life, like, what he's
been through, what he's experienced.
And I had to make the decision about
whether I will accept that, and I did.
I accepted him where he's at, and I
was like, I can work with this because
I understood his vision. His vision is legacy.
His vision he has a vision. This is
a big thing for men. Men, you have
to have a vision.
If you want your woman to submit to
you, you have to have a vision that
makes sense, that it
covers all areas of life, protection,
maintaining, providing. It covers those aspects, and you
have to be firm in it. Like, you
can't be the type of person that will
jump ship just because of like, your wife
has been emotional. You have to be like
the tree firm. Like, no. This is a
decision.
I'm down with it. I I know I'm
responsible. I'm willing to go down with this
shit. That's just how I am. And I
think when you when you own your masculinity,
when you own your masculinity, when you figure
out who you are, you work with your
own traumas, you work with your own belief
system, I believe you can accept your role
as a masculine and you will attract attract
the right woman, especially a successful woman. Like,
you will attract a woman who wants to
submit to you because she can understand your
vision. So I guess for women who are
successful,
they wanna subscribe to a vision that's bigger
than theirs.
That's a tough one, girl. You're asking a
lot, mate.
Some of us got some crazy, crazy visions.
But can I just say though, let's let's
let's contextualize
this, right? Because I think it's really, really
important for us to put this into context.
I think that this conversation of, like,
value and vision and success, etcetera, in the
wider space is very dunya y. And it
should be. Right? It's the dunya. No problem.
However,
if as a Muslim woman
and a Muslim man,
in a Muslim woman's case,
I would
caution
her
from using
the dunya
and dunya,
what are this what's this I'm thinking of?
Like,
benchmarks. Right?
Benchmarks of success in terms of dunya, I
would caution you from using that when it
comes to your marriage.
Why? Because marriage is half of your deen.
Half of your deen. Yeah? Not half your
dunya, it's half of your deen.
And the the goal of marriage is for
Allah
to provide you with a spouse that is
a garment for you and that the 2
of you will be blessed with a household
children and a whole legacy. Right?
Your deeds, gosh. You know?
Oh my goodness.
When I think of the shortsightedness
that the rest of the world is operating
under, when they see things only in material
terms, when the only things that matter is
consumer goods, is material things, is, is things
that you can show off on social media.
It breaks my heart because people are legitimately
sacrificing their legacy,
sacrificing their genes,
sacrificing their future, sacrificing their
in order to have status in the dunya.
So the reason why Khadija
was fine with submitting to Muhammad
is because she was not a materialistic
woman.
She was not
her her status or her her her her
confidence in herself, her sense of self was
not tied to her status as a wealthy
woman. Because when your status
your own sense of self let me correct
that.
When your sense of self is tied to
your status,
I have a degree,
I have PhD,
I make 6 figures. You know, I work
for who and who, Goldman Sachs, whatever the
case may be.
Your sense of self is tied to that.
You will never be able to love or
respect somebody who does not tick the same
boxes as you do. But is that
worth anything when it comes to the deen
or in the sight of Allah? It is
worth nothing in the sight of Allah.
So this whole conversation about high value men
used to make me laugh, because whenever people
talked about high value men, they only ever
talked about material things.
His job, his status, how much money he
makes. That was it.
Never about faith.
Never about akhlaq.
Never about a vision that is akhirah focused.
Never about any of the things that even
character. Right? Even character.
Never about the things that Allah Subhanahu Wa
Ta'ala has told us to prioritize. Because Allah,
the the prophet said, when a man of
good deen and character comes to you, marry
him. Right?
Not that he matches your status in society
or that he'll look good on your Instagram
or any of these things, right, that people
are obsessed with nowadays. So what I would
say is a woman may have all the
money in the world, but she will remember
and realize that my worth, my my having
this money,
firstly is from Allah. That's the first thing.
Right? It's not because I deserve it or
whatever. Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala chose to give
that to me as a test, as a
reward, whatever the case may be.
But
as a wife,
my rank rises with Allah Subhanahu If I
am a believing woman who is a wife,
as a mother,
that raises my rank with Allah
Of course, if I have money and I
donate and I'm a charitable person, that raises
my rank. But we don't think like that.
We think of all these achievements in terms
of what they mean in the dunya as
if that's everything, but
I digress.
If a sister really truly yeah. Go ahead,
sir. Go ahead. So I want to add
something. I'm so glad you mentioned contextualizing.
So with my husband, when he said big
vision, his vision was in material stuff. His
vision was a legacy of Muslim children. Yes.
Yes. Absolutely. That's what that's what made me
submit. I was like, wow. He wants Muslim
kids, and he wants to, like, raise the
whole legacy of Muslim children.
That is what I submitted to that vision.
Like, we never spoke about money. He actually
didn't know how much money I made before
we got married Yeah. And he learned after.
But for me, that's that's what I mean
by the bigger vision. The bigger vision in
in regards to your femininity
or what's gonna help become a better wife.
I think that's but I'm so glad that
you mentioned that. And so too, that usually
as women, we've because of social media, we
are focusing on what the man can give
us in terms of duniya, and you're only
gonna be burnt out at the end of
it.
100%. And, you know,
for giving that context,
as a man,
it is your responsibility
to cultivate your vision, and your vision for
your dunya and your akhirah, for you and
your family. That's your responsibility. That's the burden
of performance on you. So
if you haven't started on that yet, then
get to it, because a woman will sign
up for that. The woman who understands the
importance of marriage in terms of this deen,
in terms of her life, in this dunya,
in terms of her akhira, she'll sign up
for that. And
I I I do believe, I I I
I have faith
that the deen
and our commitment to Allah is
probably the only thing that is going to
allow us to bridge the gap that we
have right now between, you know, women who,
have these this you know, have money and
have, you know, these, professional successes, and finding
a decent man. But that means that we
have to stop focusing on the trappings of
success and focus on,
I'm gonna get married for my deen. I'm
actually going to marry somebody for deen. I'm
not gonna marry someone for dunya. I'm gonna
marry someone for deen. And I'm going to
marry somebody with the right intention
in order to be what Allah wants me
to be as a wife and what Allah
wants me to be as a mother because
this man,
who maybe doesn't have the degrees that you
have, doesn't have the money that you have,
or whatever the case may be,
he could be
the reason you have a child.
Right? People don't I I don't get it.
Right? Because especially when you see sisters who
do they want children,
but only from a man who makes a
certain amount of money. Like, what's that got
to do with anything?
Rub, you're out here almost, like, tapped out
at this point. Okay? It's almost curtains for
you, and your standard is still
a dunya based standard.
No one is asking women
to, to lower their standards when it comes
to the things that Allah has said is
our haq. Right? And what I mean by
that To be treated with respect, to have
a believing husband He protects and He provides
to the very best of his ability. That's
what Allah's Allah's baseline. Right?
The other stuff that we're talking about is
all most of it is dunya stuff, guys.
Let's just be frank and let's just own
that. Okay? But my point is
you may cheat yourself
out of the things that you truly want,
love, companionship,
and a family
because of this dunya stuff. And you'll just
be left with the dunya stuff at the
end of the day, which will not give
you anything. It's not going to give you
the love. It's not going to give you
the companionship, it's not going to give you
kids, and in the future you just look
back with regret. So we're talking about this
because we want to avoid the the next
generation making the same mistake. Mariam, you wanted
to jump in.
I wanted to add that,
for the young adults
who want to get married and have these
issues
that are holding them back, the responsibility of
the parents come in.
Because if the boy is 19 and he
wants to get married, but he doesn't have
a job, let's say, he's doing his, he's
in university and he wants to continue.
So the parents
say to the girl's family that, you know,
we are providing,
you don't have to worry about that. So
the parents have to be okay. Even the
girl's parent, they know that the boy is
nice. He's truthful. He's honest.
He's on his deen.
He is respectable. He has manners.
So let's do it.
Do it. And the wealth will come. Like
you said, you know, you complete half of
your deen. The wealth is it will come,
it will go.
You cannot depend on it. You cannot wait
for your daughter to get married just because
the boy is not earning certain amount. Yes.
You need some kind of security.
So you also step in and say, okay,
I'm going to provide for my daughter a
little bit, but the boy's father takes responsibility.
I'm gonna be the provider. I'm gonna let
them get married, let them have this halal
relationship
so that they don't go out. And, you
know, all those things, dunya me things come
in their mind. So it's a responsibility of
the parents also Agreed.
That they put it in their kids while
they're growing up at 19, 18. You like
a boy come and tell me you like
a girl come and tell me my responsibility.
I will pitch in you worry. You don't
have to worry about the balances.
You finish your studies, both of you together
and then take it forward.
The open conversation
between the parents is very, very important.
Parents, I don't think we have a generation
of parents now who pretend that their kids
don't wanna get married or the pretend that
their kids don't see boys or girls. I
don't think we're at that stage, but I
agree with you, sis. I think Gen X,
we need to be hooking up those early
marriages for our kids. Okay?
I think definitely
preparing the kids, you know, from a younger
age. Talk about marriage, guys. Right? Don't do
this thing of focus on your studies. Focus
on your studies. Focus on your studies, which
is what the previous generation did because they
thought
you're gonna focus on your studies, and then
when you're 25, 26, we'll find you a
nice boy or find you a nice girl.
But I agree with you, Maryam. I think
parents definitely need to get more involved. We
had a lot of people on this channel
who would say that their father does not
want to get involved,
and they they basically got their hands off
approach, and I don't think that that is
the best approach. I think if the child,
like you said, if they want to make
a go of it, it's like from a
good family, he's a nice boy. She's a
nice girl.
Bismillah, let's do it and support them. You
know? Rosalie, what's your what's your perspective on
early marriage? Is that a yes or a
no?
Oh, yes. And it's so funny you mentioned
this. I was having a conversation with my
my sons and my daughters earlier. My daughters
are, like, 5, 6. My son is 10.
And we talked about marriage. I was like,
girls, like, you know, I have to be
a wife. Like, you're gonna have to, you
know, learn how to nurture your home and
learn how to cook clean soil. Like, my
daughters are learning how to sow now. My
son is a responsible
man in the home, and I was telling
him, look. When you're a husband, when you're
a father, you're gonna be doing things like
this. So always instill it in them that
they're gonna get married young. I I pray,
inshallah, my children get married when they're 16.
I mean I'm hoping I mean 16.
Let us know how it goes. Okay? Anybody
wants some of Rosalyn's kids, then just let
get in touch. But my kids cringe. They
think it's so cringe. But I talk to
my friends and I say, so who've you
got? Okay. Well, I've got Hamza. He's this
age. I've got the
and we laugh about it, but but we
laugh about it, but, like, they know that,
look. I'm clocking.
I'm looking for the nice girls and nice
boys because I don't want my kids on
a dating app. I don't want my kids
doing on a matrimonial site. I don't want
them to be 27
out in the source trying to find a
decent girl. Say, mom, there are no girls
out there. The girls out there are crazy.
You know? Which is which is which is
the conversation. Right? Right.
Exactly.
And I wanted to add something as well
about about risk. I know we're we're talking
about it, about when women marry, for a
man that doesn't have that much money. Like,
I wanna give testimony to, like, when I
when I when I met my husband, like,
he just he he just had liquidated his
business, and he was in a situation where
he's trying to figure out where he wanted
to go. And I was in the same
position. We're trying to make money. And then
now, Alhamdulillah, 4 years in, my husband has
surpassed me in wealth. Like, he surpassed me
in wealth. He has his own company. He's
like he's a he's a business owner now.
He's in his element. But I want ladies
to realize is that if you if you
think you're settling, you're not settling
if the man is honest, if the man
is god fearing, if the man values you
as a woman and wants to honor you
as a wife, If the man is saying
to you, I wanna marry you, don't think
you're settling because men nowadays, some like, some
men, most men, I don't know, they would
rather not marry you and would rather 100%,
sis.
100%.
I mean, like, marry, divorce you, marry, and
devotion. I see a I see a lot
in the in the heard about it a
lot in the Muslim community. And I want
you to understand is when a man says
I wanna marry you, he is honoring you.
He's saying I'm willing to protect and provide
you. I'm willing to invest my
resources into you. Come come. Like, come be
mine. So take that as, wow. I'm not
settling. I'm upgrading.
Yeah. Yeah. Upgrading for real. Even if, like
you said, you know, there are other aspects
that are not ticked off,
understand and I think
I don't know whether this is a bad
thing to say because so many people are
actually out here, boys and girls, saying, I
can't be bothered. I don't wanna get married.
I'm not interested in marriage. Right?
Right?
The boys are saying, these girls are crazy.
They're all gold diggers. I don't wanna spend
money on them. I don't want to have
to work hard and then, you know, win
this girl and she won't even cook and
clean, so there's the boys complaining. And then
the girls are like, look, I have a
great life. You know, I got my degree.
I'm working. I'm educated.
I have a great fantastic family. You know,
I travel with my friends. Like, why would
I get married? Like, what's the point?
This is legit where we are at. Yeah.
This is the kind of things that I'm
hearing from young people. And I think, again,
your
status before Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala. I had
a conversation with a friend actually who who
she questioned whether
getting married is an achievement or not. Right?
Should you see getting married as an achievement
or not? Now I have my opinion on
it, but I'd love to hear what you
think. How would you answer that question? Do
you think getting married is an achievement or
yes, if you're married, great. If you're not
married, great. Like,
no big deal. It's not something to, like,
to congratulate you about or make a big
deal about.
I I think it's a massive achievement because
you're choosing
to go into a situation where you're gonna
be challenged,
where you're gonna be you're gonna someone's gonna
And
if you're able and if you're able to
hold it down I think that's a massive
achievement. It reminds me of like the hadith
where, a woman
issues a wife that feeds her husband.
Stop.
I'm here. The matrix is all the
You need to bring the hadith. It's very
important.
The hadith of the wife, Sukhis and her
husband prays fast. There's all the obligations of,
Islam. She enters Jannah through any door. Isn't
that pure success? I think that's a massive
achievement.
That's a mindset shift that
if we could shift,
it would make a huge difference into how
we perceive ourselves. Right? Go on, Maryam. What
do you do you think marriage is an
achievement? Yes or no? Yes. Definitely.
Definitely. It's an achievement because,
like Rosalind said, it's
sacrifice. It's compromise. It's facing your own self,
putting your ego aside,
learning about yourself, learning about another human being
that you're living
and also
becoming a role model for the generations to
come.
I will hold back to what you said
previously. The girls and the boys are not
ready to get married because they don't have
role models.
If there's lack of role model in our
Muslim communities
where the marriages in their own homes,
there's lack of the sukoon, which the marriages
promises. There's lack of what, Sis? I have
to say, you know, this is even from
kids who come from fantastic homes. Like and
this is this I think that this is
the result of social media
because I know how many girls
have an opinion of men. They think men
are untrustworthy,
men are oppressive, men are this, men are
that.
They have a great relationship with their dad.
They have great brothers. You know? I know
girls from stable,
loving homes. Their parents have been together forever,
and they still say and that that's the
reason why they say, like, why would I
leave? Like, why should I go anywhere? Like,
you know, I've got my family. My mom
still cooks for me. You know, I'm I'm
sweet. Why would I, you know, wanna get
married? So I think you're right. There are
some who who lack role models, but I
think
it's it's it's it's a lot of the
unlearning that we need to do, right, about
how life is supposed to work.
We are still, and we will remain insha'Allah,
in the Islamic
tradition,
in the religious tradition of
once you are grown,
you get responsibility
in the next stage of your life, and
that is to marry and have your own
family, and you move forward that way. That
is how the next generation is nurtured.
Obviously, today's society is not about that at
all because everything is about individualism
and hedonism
and your individual happiness and a blah blah.
Go on, Rosalyn.
But, yeah, just like you mentioned about social
media, social media has created the the degeneracy
of the world, like, of the western world.
The degeneracy now that's it's all he he
hedonism, whatever. But what I would say to
you is
just like you teach your kids about going
to school and getting education, teach your kids
that marriage is an obligation.
I would say that would cause a lot
of problems because because I didn't enter my
marriage wanting to be loved. I love myself.
I like myself. I married it as a
duty. That I know that when I get
married, I'm raising the next generation. That's a
duty I have upon myself. And this is
what gives a rid of individualism.
When you realize you have a duty to
prepare the next generation Wow. To be Right?
It's a legacy you're leaving behind. So for
me, when I met my husband, like, this
is a duty. That's an obligation to please
Allah, to raise Muslim kids because it's dying
out. Like, we're being affected by social media,
being affected by all this immoral content that
we it's our duty now. And this is
what this is why prophet said, and join
the good, forbid the evil. This is part
of it. Make marriage an obligation. Just like
you say to your kids, go to school,
get a job, get married. Yes. That's that's
the problem. We have to go back to
the old days. You know, the old days,
aunties were like, so when are you getting
married?
You're still not married?
I know a nice boy.
Maryam, do you think we we need to
swing the pendulum back to be the old
aunties who are, like, always on the girls'
cases to say, what is it? You're still
not married?
Or is there a balance here?
Yes. We have to, but we have to
ask the boys as well, not just the
girls. Yes. Agreed. Tell the boys.
That's another way you will help him to
man up. That boy he needs to come
out of his room, of his games,
and take responsibility.
No, sis. Okay. You wait. Wait. Wait. Woah.
*, you're not gonna move forward from this
point. We need to talk about this. Okay?
Because what you said is so on point.
Our girls don't know how to keep house
because they're on their phones or out and
about doing their thing, and our boys don't
know how to be in the world because
they're online all the time, because they're on
Twitch, because they're on the stream, because they're
on the PlayStation.
SubhanAllah,
what do we do?
It's a tough question because it's reality.
It's we are getting sucked up more and
more. So as a family,
we have to limit the screen time, set
boundaries,
like, a firm but healthy boundaries.
And, okay, they can have their PlayStation. They
can have that. But
like I said earlier, these are your responsibilities.
You have to do this. You're living in
the in the house Yes. Where humans live.
It's not a hotel.
Yes. You have to pitch in,
and everybody needs to do their job.
And that's for the house chores. But
sitting, talking, sit in one room, even if
they are playing with their, eye on iPad
or something, sit in one room, have healthy
conversations.
So you know what your son and your
daughter is doing.
Right now, they're all in their own rooms.
That is like Yeah. Really, really scary. Yes.
They can be in their own rooms.
Go, relax, have downtime time, but
make your living room
a place where the whole family comes in.
They sit together, they eat together, they laugh.
They know what's happening.
The building on family time, that's what I'm
trying to say. That is missing
because the father's working late. The mom is
not present.
She's stuck with her own thoughts, her own
things. She wants to do so many things
she's not able to do. I'm just creating
a hypothetical situation. It's just to generalize for
me.
Small kids, big kids.
I know it gets chaotic, but
we are family.
You have to learn how to be together
with everyone of different ages. You cannot be
around your own age. Yeah. So you have
to sit with all the people
and make the weekends, you know, go out,
Go out in nature, spend time, cook together,
ask your boys to come together and cook.
The girls and the fathers can have a
cooking meal time. They do things together.
So that bonding has to be there. The
1 on one time with your kids.
That is very important. And this is what
something is missing because everything is like a
click of a button. It's very accessible. Life
is not a click of a button
or scroll.
You have to face the challenges,
and life is gonna be challenging. Marriage is
gonna be challenging. It's not an easy road.
You have to go up and down,
but you have to also know how to
come up when you go down.
You know, Jazakula Karen says, I I love
the way we started this talking about, you
know, successful women making good wives, and, you
know, we've we've come all the way here.
I think everything you've said, I hope people
will go back and listen to this whole
thing again, this whole stream again and take
notes, but I agree with you. I think
being more mindful
and more purpose driven with our parenting
will, Insha'Allah, help the next generation to
to to to at least maybe avoid some
of the mistakes or may or maybe just
protect them from making worse mistakes. Right? I
definitely think that, you know, we are okay
with making sacrifices
in almost everything else
to to lose weight,
you know, to run a marathon, to to
make 10 k a month, to make a
100 k, to get a master's, to get
a PhD. We are okay with sacrificing. We're
okay with sacrificing to fast Ramadan.
We're okay with fasting to pray Hajj, but
dare talk about sacrificing to preserve a family
home.
Now you are
all of the bad things, You know? You're
promoting abuse. You're doing this. You're victim, da
da, all of this stuff. And I just
think,
but is that not worth
fighting for? Is that not worth preserving? Is
that not worth sacrificing for? I don't get
it. Rosalyn, what say you?
It's so true. And I I wanna touch
on what Maureen said about bonding as well.
A great way to bond as well is
how you problem solve. And I do this
a lot with my children. Like, when they
fight, you know, okay, guys, how do you
wanna solve the problem? And my like, when
my son, he's 10, he wakes up every
day at 5 o'clock in the morning. He
goes to school by 6. He's back home
at 6 PM. And I know it's like
some people be like, oh my god. You're
like, this is so much, but a man
has to go for challenges in order to
grow as a man. And, my son, had
straight a's in his exam despite the fact
that he has such a heavy schedule. And
I believe the more you put your kids
in challenges, the more you challenge your children,
the more they're gonna grow and develop as
human beings. This is what you need. You
need to be challenged in order to grow
and develop and to become the best version
of yourself. And I think in the age
of social media and games,
the kids are not being challenged. It's so
easy to play a game and, like, win
a level and get to the next level
and get that dopamine. So, again, like right?
And and as us, when we talk about
challenging our kids, the first time comes to
mind is abuse and trauma. No. It's not.
Because you are the way you are. Me
and you and I, Mo, we are the
way we are. And, Maureen, you are the
way you are because we were challenged as
kids. I was bullied, but I'm I'm I
appreciate the bullying because now I'm a better
human being. Like, I'm not in a not
in a bad way. Like, I know I
should have got bullied, but I appreciate that
I went through that. I'm grateful for the
experience because now the person I am, I
can handle challenges. So we have to, like,
not a traumatic way challenge your kids, We
have to make them problem solvers.
You have to give them tasks during the
day. Like, for my son, he doesn't he
doesn't have breakfast until he's in his chores.
He doesn't have breakfast. That's what it's you
earn your breakfast today because you're a man.
You earn it. Oh gosh. You earn food
on your plate. And he was like, no,
home. I didn't offer you what to do.
I had to go and feed the dogs.
I had to go and clean the garden.
I could do that and then come back.
And this is what helps him grow as
a man. Same with my daughters. What did
you do today? Did you earn your I
say the same thing to my daughter. Did
you earn your breakfast? No, mommy. Go read
your Quran because you do Quran in the
morning. Brush up, tidy your rooms, and then
come and eat. So you always have to
challenge your kids so they don't fall for,
like, social media, the hype of social media
and games.
This is
did you earn your breakfast today? I'm gonna
use that one. Okay. But,
you know, the just again, you know, going
back to the issue of sort of parenting
and mothering and, you know, being a successful
woman in terms of professional, etcetera,
you know, I think that there is definitely
more converse we need to have more conversations
about
how mothering was done in previous generations. Right?
And the fact that as human beings, we
haven't changed much. Right? In our
general
makeup, we haven't changed. We still learn things
at the same rate as we pretty much
always did. Like to talk, for example. Kids
don't start talking earlier now than they did
a 100 years ago. They they have the
same slow development, right? But the rest of
the world has sped up. Everything else is
fast. So it's kind of like we expect
everything to be fast. Relationships are fast, you
know, children should grow up quickly. You know,
everything should happen fast, fast, fast. And I
think that, I don't know.
I'm hoping 2023 will give me some answers,
but part of me thinks that a reason
some something that we can all try to
do is slow down when it comes to
our families.
If we could somehow slow down time within
the home
and not be at the same pace as
we are when we're, like, outside in work
and school and all of that. You know,
there's that going on. But as a family
and with our children, with our spouses, if
there was a way that we could slow
down
and
honor the time,
right, that it takes to build what we're
trying to build.
Mariam, what do you think of that?
I love that. I love that. And,
actually I'm taking a break from social media
with the same intention right now
that I wanted to slow
down as I could see that, you know,
it's affecting my family. Yes. The work is
nice and everything,
but
keeping yourself in check is very hard. And
when the results come in and then you
have to apply it. So
I wanted to end the year with slowing
down and just being present
with my kids, with my husband, with myself
because you need it. I need to recharge
myself so that I can be there for
my husband and my kids.
So giving myself that permission
to slow down. Yes. The work is there.
The studies are there. Everything is there.
But if me, as a woman of the
house,
is not
nourished,
is not taken care of by myself.
My whole whole home will become a house.
It will just become walls.
That piece, that paragraph from the home
that will go away.
So
for me to slow down, it's actually me
being productive.
This is what I have been reflecting on
this whole, this, past 2 weeks, and this
is what I wanna go in in 2023
That me, my husband, my kids, they come
first
because Dinya is just going very fast paced
and it's getting very scary.
Every day we have to be realistic. So
how can I
be there for all of them and protect
my family?
This is what I'm going in,
with the mindset, in 2023.
Well, Masha'Allah, it seems like it's it's a
season of, of, Muslim abosses doing things slightly
differently, Masha'Allah. Rosalyn,
let's close out with you telling us how
you,
how do you, like, manage the the fast
pace of being an entrepreneur, being a coach,
being boom boom boom boom boom, and then
the slow work of parenting and loving on
your husband?
Okay. So I have days. So Monday, I
am the irresponsible teenager. That's what I like
to call it. I have an identity where,
basically, I just get massages. I go to
the beach, and, like, I don't mother. And
then obviously during the time when I'm at
home, I'm mothering, but in my mind, I'm
like, this is me time. Then Tuesday, Wednesday,
and Thursday, I'm the CEO. I'm the businesswoman
from,
9 AM to 5 PM. Then after that,
I'm the mother and the wife. And then
Friday, Saturday, Sunday, I'm the mother and the
wife. When it comes to my husband,
the first thing I do as soon as
I finish my work is I get dressed
up. I put my lipstick on. I make
myself look very sexy for him. I make
sure I'm the only thing that he's attracted
to when he comes home. I smell nice,
and I do that on purpose because I
know that when I do that, he's just
gonna wanna come home even more. Right? And
I I make a note to him that
I appreciate him as soon as you enter
the door. I hug him and I smile
at him, and then I leave him be.
Like, I'm not trying to tell him 100
things.
For that.
I have women for that. I have friends
for that to share with them. But for
my husband, I I give him his me
time. Like, he needs me time. And whenever
he comes down, we spend time as a
family. We talk. We banter. We may watch
some things at some Islamic program. We'll do
things together. So we're always like
the best I can explain to you is
that we're bobbing and weaving in and out
throughout the whole day of, like, different identities.
But my goal in in my relationship is,
like, I love being a mom and a
wife. I actually love it more than being
a businesswoman. I generally do this business because
I have a passion for it. Like, I
really wanna change mindset,
but I will choose being a mom and
a wife all day every day. Right? And
then secondly, for me, is, like, I have
support. I don't feel guilty hiring support. I
don't feel guilty having a nanny, having a
chef, having a driver. I'm I make time
for that. I tell myself, I want this.
I'm gonna get it, and I don't feel
guilty about that. I have a conversation with
my husband. My husband's like, yeah. Feels good
for you. Do it. But that's for me
to be the best version of myself. And
I know that when my plate is full,
I'm not the best version of myself. So
this is basically how I interweave between,
being a CEO and a wife and a
mom. And then lastly, I always say I
get to do this. This is like the
magic sentence.
I get to do this. Like, whenever you're
feeling frustrated, just remind yourself you get to
do this. This is your choice.
Oh, you know, I love that. And, I'm
gonna come to you, Mariam, Insha'Allah.
I just wanted to say that, you know,
there are lots of things you can outsource.
Right?
Within within within life.
Lots of things you can outsource in within
your business. We use outsourcing all the time
in our businesses.
In her in the house, there will be
things that you feel okay with outsourcing.
Certainly deep clean of the house, I'm okay
with outsourcing that. You know? So whether it's,
you know, preparing meals in advance, whether it's
cleaning, whether it's a driver, whether it's a
carpool, whether it's tutors, Quran tutors. A lot
of us outsource, you know, our Qurans the
Quran education if we're not confident, or Arabic,
or French, or whatever it is your kids
are learning, but there's certain things you can't
outsource. And I remember
a few other speakers saying this to sisters
to say,
don't outsource being a wife, and don't outsource
being a mother.
Because those 2,
firstly, they're too important for you to out
source them. They're like, if you're looking at
your family as a project,
they are the key projects
that will determine your success in this area,
like, hands down. So being the one that
your husband is attracted to,
don't outsource that, sis. Right?
Wow. Don't do it.
You know, being the being the one that,
you know, your husband can't wait to see,
don't outsource that either, you know, knowingly or
unknowingly.
Take ownership of that part of your role.
Similarly with your children spending quality time, don't
outsource that. Discipline, don't outsource that. You know,
there's certain things that
That is the 20eighty,
isn't it? It's the Pareto's rule. You put
in that 20%, it brings 80% of the
result. That's, I think, how we need to
operate. So all the sisters out there who
are juggling lots of plates,
you know, take advice from these sisters, from
us,
on this panel, you know, working on our
intention, on our priorities,
making it do what it do, you know,
making it work how it works,
and bringing the very best of your success
to your home and your family. And whatever
challenges that come with your success, knowing how
to just compartmentalize
and be able to get the best out
of your wife,
mother role.
Maryam,
tell us where we can find you. Since
you're taking a social media break, does that
mean you're not taking on any clients? What's
going on?
No. I'll be back.
Inshallah,
I'll be back, in a day or 2
inshallah. And Okay. Cool. I'm, they can contact
me on Instagram.
My main profile is on Instagram
and on Facebook as well.
But, I am taking on clients as the
new year is starting. I'm taking on, 1
on 1 client,
but very limited availability
because, I wanna focus more on my family.
My membership is still, on,
thriving my circle that is, continuing.
I've, purposely made it very affordable because,
we are living in a challenging time. So
I wanted more sisters to have access to,
me and work,
you know, where in becoming a thriving wife.
But for more intensive, that's where the 1
on 1 comes in. So I'm taking both
of the, clients for, both of them, Insha'Allah,
and I'll be back soon, Insha'Allah. In a
day or 2, I'll be back soon, Insha'Allah.
Oh, Insha'Allah. Okay. So it's not a long
term thing, alhamdulillah. And you're Mariam Arafat on
both channels. Yes? Oh, yes. Mariam Arafat. Yes.
And, Rosalyn, where can people find you?
You can find me on Instagram, Rosalyn Batool.
I'm currently running a 8 week program where
you can awaken your femininity, cultivate your femininity
so you can be the best version of
yourself. And we're starting the next program
on the 25th January. So Rosalie Batool on
Instagram.
Fantastic. And before we go, guys, there's just
a quick sound bite here. We've got a
question from one of our VIPs.
Guys, if you want to upgrade to be
a VIP and join us here in Zoom
so we can see all your comments and
the, the speakers can see your comments too,
then just click the link in the emails
that you've been getting
and it will be in the description of
the video as well. But the VIP member
says,
does being submissive
all the time not build resentment?
And this is actually a brother asking from
the perspective as a of a woman. Right?
So his question is basically, does being submissive
all the time, doesn't that build resentment?
So do you wanna just give some perspective
on that? I mean, I'm not sure what
all the time means, but how would you
answer that question?
So with submission, I guess, is what you
define as submission. For women, submission,
they think, believe, means I have no opinion.
I just have to shut shut up and
put up. That's not submission. That's oppression. So
or tyrannical oppression of being forced.
Submission is I express my opinion, but then
I leave the decision to my husband. So
I'm gonna try and mother him. So example
is,
there's a package that a DHL package that
needs to be delivered.
And you're constantly asking, have you done it?
Have you done it? Have you done it?
Right? Or you're constantly mothering him, trying to
figure out if he's done it, you're not
submitting to his masculinity. Or if he says
if you give your opinion that, okay. I
think we should have chicken. And he's like,
no, I want I want beef. Okay. I'll
make beef. It's just very simple. It's like
you're trying to you're trying to, like, limit
how many decisions you make in a relationship
so that the masculine role can take over.
So when it leads to resentment, it's usually
because you feel like you haven't expressed yourself
or you feel like you're not good enough
or you you're you're looking for validation from
your husband, but you can only ever validate
yourself. So that will go back to a
self worth issue. If you feel any resentment
towards submitting to what your husband says or,
like, if he says she, you can't go
out. Now how many women will say would
argue with their husband? Like, what do you
mean I can't go out? Like, it's all
asking for permission, like, telling your husband I'm
gonna go out to the shops. Like, letting
him know a lot of women have an
issue with that. Like, they will think they're
being oppressed. That's not oppression. That's just respect.
So if you are feeling resentment, I would
say that maybe there's a feeling of lack
of validation within yourself, and you're feeling like
you're validating your husband, but you're not getting
the validation yourself. So you would have to
work on your self worth issues.
Very interesting perspective. Mariam, what say you?
I
agree with, sister Rosie 100%.
And I would say that if the resentment
is coming up, that means that she needs
to do the work on herself. Why is
it coming up? What's the trigger?
And because you can very comfortably
agree to disagree
Mhmm. Having a fight. That's important. That means
yeah. That means confidence. That means an immense
amount of self awareness within you.
Because, yes, you have to submit. You have
to you can agree to everything, but you
don't have to. If you don't agree to
it, just say, I'm not comfortable with this,
but I respect your decision.
And that takes and that takes confidence.
It does. It definitely does. Guys, do you
have 5 minutes?
Because I want to if you don't, I
appreciate your time. I know I've kept you
way longer than I said I would. But,
if you do you have 5 minutes? Yes.
Yes. I wanna show you, some slides that
I used at a workshop that I did,
which was,
It was really eye opening, and I think
that the audience will enjoy and benefit from
So this this is Surah
Nisa verse
34. Men are the caretakers of women, as
men have been provisioned by Allah over women
and tasked with supporting them financially.
And righteous women are devoutly obedient and, when
alone, protective of what Allah has entrusted them
with. Okay. So
the conversation was about the word obedient.
Right? Because as we said at the beginning
and we have been saying that, you know,
a lot of women today struggle with the
aspect of being obedient or submissive, etcetera. Right?
So I wanted to have a little conversation
about the word obedient
and hopefully,
get people thinking
maybe differently about the whole concept. Right?
So the first exercise is for everybody in
the chat. When you see the word obedient,
just type in the chat what comes up
for you.
Do you feel great? Do you feel neutral?
Do you feel bad?
Do you feel anything at all? Put in
the chat what the word obedient means to
you and what it makes you feel.
When I did this,
this exercise,
in London at a workshop in London, We
had some really interesting responses. We had people
saying that, you know, they resent this word
or their mother always used to use the
word or, you know, there there are different
associations that people make with words and those
associations are very powerful, right? So see? Exactly.
Thank you, sis, for being honest. She says,
my first reaction is to rebel.
Right? Another sister says, not so great.
I'm completely submissive, but I understand it has
negative associations.
Right? Another says, I now I feel honored,
but at first as a new revert I
was triggered,
right? The other sister says it would depend
on the situation,
Right? In YouTube, people are saying that they
feel good.
They feel,
neutral.
Obedience upon good is a badder, neutral, conflicted.
So I want a doormat. Okay. Rebel,
powerless,
obliged.
Great. Okay. So,
yeah. And, another sister says, yes, I would
rebel too. First reaction is neutral. If I
were a woman, then I would have think
of it as slavery. Right? So this is
interesting. Right? So there's a little exercise that
we did. So here's the word obedient. We've
all had a chance to respond.
Now
let's look at the synonyms
for the word obedient,
and let's play some word association with the
synonyms. Right? So a synonym obviously is a
word that means the same thing. You'll find
it in the thesaurus.
So obedient means submissive,
respectful,
faithful,
dutiful,
willing,
attentive,
agreeable,
obliging,
well trained. We like that one.
Loyal. Right?
How do you feel about these words?
Do any of them
trigger you in a negative way?
Do any of them feel
more positive? Do any of them make you
feel more relaxed?
Let me know in the chat. I'd like
to see just take a a temperature of
the room.
This says, I love the word agreeable,
God consciousness.
Right? Obedience is really important in Islam. People
saying,
what have I got here?
Not triggered.
I feel better.
Nope. Not triggered. Definitely more positive.
I like faithful,
attentive, and submissive. They feel good. Interesting. Faithful
is positive.
Interesting. Is that not so interesting? I like
agreeable. Yeah. We like agreeable. Agreeable's good. A
lot of people like agreeable, mashallah.
All of them are very positive,
right?
So and this one says as a man
it's pretty spot on all of them are
very positive, right? So guys these are just
synonyms, right? So we're literally just talking about
words
and what those words mean, sister that she
likes respectful. So check this out.
In our day and
age, a lot of people push back on
the word obedient and especially obedient wife. Right?
I remember somebody saying, like, if I have
to obedient to him, does that also mean
he has to obey me? Like, if I
have to obey him, does that mean he
also has to obey me? So that's kind
of where we are with, you know, in
some aspects of the community. Right?
But if we if as we've seen,
Allah
is giving us the guidance,
and we love to quote Arjijalakawamunal
Nisa
because we love to be provided for by
our men folk. We love to be protected
by our men folk.
That's the first part of the aya.
The second part of the aya is about
our obedience
and our chastity.
So it makes sense that we may want
to get comfortable with the word obedient. Right?
So we've gone through the synonyms,
We've seen that there are other ways of
saying the same thing that make us feel
good. Now let's look at the antonyms. Let's
look at the opposite.
For those of you who are still like,
I don't wanna be obedient,
are you comfortable with being rebellious,
disrespectful,
unfaithful,
wayward,
unwilling,
dismissive,
disobedient,
disagreeable,
un obliging that should be,
disorderly,
and disloyal.
For those of you whose daughters
give you pushback and say, I don't wanna
be no one's obedient wife,
Ask her, are you happy with being one
of these?
Would you prefer to be wayward, rebellious, disloyal,
disagreeable,
dismissive?
And ask your sons,
would you like a wife who's disrespectful,
disobedient, unwilling?
And I think that this really kind of
yeah. Tell me what's coming up for you.
So everybody's saying, nope. Absolutely not.
Absolutely not. Definitely changes the lens from which
we view obedient. Alhamdulillah.
Definitely not. Sisters, do you wanna chime in?
What do you think of that exercise? Realize
it actually makes you realize how society has
been governed by words. Like, actually the society
is going towards being disobedient and they're thought
to be disloyal and rebellious simply by everything
we're seeing and consuming and it's really it's
just that it blow my mind, like, how
it's
so triggered by a word. It's simply a
word, but we're not looking at the connotation
of it that you mentioned, like, we wanna
be provided for. But the consequence, the the,
effect of that is for you to be
faithful, loyal, agreeable, submissive, all those good things.
So, yeah, this was
interesting. Yeah. What about you, Maryam?
Very interesting,
exercise, And I loved it because it opened
up a lot of,
things. You know, this is what
this is what self awareness is. You really
become aware of what that world is a
trigger for you, and then you go deeper
in it and try to understand that. Is
it the society that's telling you or that's
something that you've learned while you were growing
up
and words
matter a lot. So choosing the words for
yourself, say
it, you know, your self talk as well
plays a very, very important role. Maybe you've
picked up this word
along the way, and you have not really
understood what it means.
But, subhanallah, this is a really, really, eye
opening exercise.
You guys are free to use it if
you find it useful, Insha'Allah.
But, yeah, I think
playing with those words, you know, and the
reason that we often will have this conversation
about how women are coming to the work
of being a Muslim wife is because
it's I think it is our fitra that
is being played with here.
Of course, I'm not saying all Muslim men
are protectors and providers and that they're in
their masculine and they're in their fitra. Of
course not. But I think it's society wide,
the push to detaching women from their fitra
is
much stronger and has been more successful. Would
you agree?
Definitely. I 100% agree with that. Like, okay.
I understand there's exception to the rules. Because
of social media, the exception has become the
rule. And I was thinking that, okay, because
the exception is being portrayed that men are
abusive. Some, I I would say, like, no
point no one percent of men are abusive.
I would say that. The majority of men
are not abusive. But it's because of the
way we perceive ourselves. If you perceive yourself
as a victim, you are going to attract
a person who's a persecutor
or a rescuer. You're gonna attract someone who's
gonna be abusive towards you because you're now
victim state. And this is what happens with
words that we get ourselves into a victim
state and tell ourselves that women are bad,
men are trash. What you're saying really is
I'm a victim, I'm a victim, I'm a
victim. And when you go into that mode
and you start seeing whether there's a obedience
or message, your natural fitra is you wanna
do that because you when you pray to
Allah, you're obeying him. You're submitting to him.
Right? But just when it comes to a
man, and that's where the break where they're
breaking up the families through social media, through
the TV, where they're making you think that
being a man is bad, is toxic, and
being a powerful strong woman is better. But
we all know where that goes. Like, look
at at I I spoke I've seen so
many women in their late forties who are
like, I wish I just didn't do this.
I wish I got married. I wish I
had children and the career. I wish I
did it all back then.
And I think just, on that point, the
idea that you know, I think the underlying
idea is that women are better than men,
actually,
that women are more evolved, are, you know,
socially we are safer,
we're we, you know, we create societies that
are better, etcetera, blah blah blah. Right? And
that a woman can do anything that a
man can do. Right? And if you don't
have a man, you can still do all
of the things. And now they do. Right?
They get their education. They get their job.
They pay for they buy their own house.
They buy their own car. They get pregnant.
They have a child.
Right? I don't need a man. And especially
now that they're actually moving towards flipping
incubating babies in a factory. Like, what is
this cloud world that we live in? So
not only do you not need a man
to get pregnant, you don't even need a
woman to get to have a baby. So
just
pluck it off the tree. Anyway, Mariam, did
you wanna give some last words on that
before we wrap up? I must let you
go now.
I would say that
marriage is a true blessing.
Indeed, there is so much of blessing in
the contract of nikka
only if we understand
and,
not to get sucked up with, learning from
social media. Learn from.
Learn,
read,
and implement because only learning is not
the only that's the first step.
Implementing,
practicing it every day in and out. It's
hard because you will be pushed back. You
will have challenges, but sticking to it, having
a purpose that, yes, Jannah is your eternal
goal and who you want there, your spouse,
your kids, your family,
having a clear cut goal what you want,
learning from the being, implementing,
and
marriages are blessed, but it takes work. Yeah.
Ready to do it. Be ready to do
the work, guys, just like we're ready to
do the work with everything else. Okay?
Sisters,
once again, thank
you so much for giving us so much
of your precious time. Apologize to your families
for us, please. Thank your husbands. Thank the
kids. Tell them thank you for lending mommy,
to us for 2 hours insha'Allah.
Guys, follow these ladies on social media. Pop
your comments in the chat and be sure
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we love you. JazakAllah Khayram for your fantastic
support and your wonderful comments. We will see
you in the next session, which I believe
starts at I will tell you in a
minute. There's a long stream that starts at
5 PM,
and that one is gonna take us all
the way. We've got we've got 3, 4
talks. So we've got how can reverts get
married at 5, and then how to find
a spouse with doctor Sherifakarlo
at, 6. Then we have the brothers panel,
how a Muslim man prepares for marriage, which
is at 7. Then we have the sisters
panel,
how Muslim women prepare for marriage at 8
Insha'Allah.
So we will see you for the long
stream, the evening stream,
later on today
In the meantime, have a blessed day, and
we'll see you guys later. Thumbs up.