Maryam Amir – When Quran teachers abuseOwning Quranic relationship w Ustada Fathima Zainulabideen
AI: Summary ©
The speakers discuss the importance of trauma and abuse when learning the Quran and how it affects one's mental health. They emphasize the importance of forgiveness and acknowledging the actions of others, and encourage parents to advocate for others who have gone through similar crimes and not let anyone know. They also recommend therapy and encourage parents to recite the Quran for the audience. The speakers also encourage parents to share their experiences and experiences of being wronged, and encourage them to write down their feelings and share them on social media.
AI: Summary ©
Subhanallah, he will be handed Subhanallah, Subhana, Allah, He
will be handling SubhanAllah. He will be handy SubhanAllah. He will
be handed sub a hand. Allah, He will be handed
Subhanallah, come Sheik.
BarakAllahu, FIK Sheik so IQ Subhanallah, walayna, ILA Allahu,
Akbar So,
subhanAllah,
such an honor to have so many of you. Masha Allah, Masha Allah,
Akbar to Alhamdulillah, we have Ustad al Fatima with us. Sha Allah
said, If I took him out, you could just send me a request to join sha
Allah, someone come share
to Korea Hannah and to Barak Allah, to
work Allah.
Ketu, are you doing? Alhamdulillah. Alhamdulillah,
doing well. It's such a blessing to have you for joining us, for
having me here. I'm the one who's honored no other way around.
Today, Inshallah, we're going to be having a discussion, discussion
which is a little bit different from the discussions we've had in
the past with regards to Quran. In the past, we've talked about
personal journeys to Quran, personal struggles with
memorization or connection. Today, we're going to talk about trauma
and abuse when it comes to people who teach Quran. So trigger
warning for everyone who is joining us. Osama, Fatima, masha
Allah, she has any jazz and Ashra, masha Allah, in May Allah, bless
her and increase her in the Quran. But her story started out very
with a lot of pain, and it starts. It starts very much similar to
something that I've heard other women and men go through, which is
when Quran teachers or religious advisors abuse the power that they
have when they use their position to cause pain and trauma and
oppression to their students. And so many people ask, how do they
even move forward from that? So many people run away from Islam.
They run away from the Quran because after that type of
experience, they don't want to even think about it. It's just too
painful. Was that a faltima, may Allah bless her, has so
courageously, so courageously and so vulnerably honored us with
being here to share her story, her personal experience with this type
of with this type of horrendous abuse, and Inshallah, she's going
to teach us how she moved forward from that chose to own her
narrative and her relationship with the Quran and what advice she
gives for healing with the Quran. She also, mashallah has founded a
street, I, L, M, S, T, R, E, E, t, which is what she's on with right
now. And mashallah, it's an institute which is really cute and
fun. I say cute, I'm sorry I use the word cute, but she teaches
children Quran in such cool ways. I saw her teach Sira to the kids
with karate SubhanAllah. So she has, she has a foundation that's
aimed at a very different perspective of learning Quran with
kids with love and joy and interaction and fun and critical
thinking, with Quran and Sira and Sif sir and so much more so set of
faulty Ma. Can you start by sharing with us your journey the
very beginning with
the Quran. This
is a colleagues. This is Mariam for having me here.
It's such an honor.
And just like Mariam said in the beginning, Inshallah, I pray that
this is this conversation is something towards healing for
everybody and for especially for people who have gone through this
and there's a child or some benefit in it. That being said, I
just want to take a deep breath
for myself and for everybody. Let's take a couple of deep
breaths.
Okay, so my journey with Quran started even before, you know, I
have memories of it, Alhamdulillah.
But I remember that my mom would boast to others about how, oh, you
know, my daughter is three. She can recite this much. And you
know, Alhamdulillah I did in the beginning. My first was that I
still remember him. I was three years old. He, you know, taught me
the basic suras and all that, Alhamdulillah, that's how my
journey started. And I grew up in the Middle East, where, you know,
there was no madrasa for people like us as immigrants to go to,
and we would have to have those that come.
Over to our house and they teach us. That was kind of the setup.
And I remember the struggles of, you know, my parents always
wanting to find a stats for us, you know, for me and my siblings
to learn the Quran.
But a lot now, when I look back, the reality is that, you know, at
that time, even though I may not have
fully understood or grasped the intensity of some of the
experiences I went through.
You know, there were a lot of times and a lot, and it's not one
person. There were a lot of stats who would use their you know, that
religious power,
the Quran itself to, you know, molest and abuse young children.
And me being a girl, for a longest time, I thought it happened only
to girls, so kind of watch it was later on, I came to know that this
happens to boys too. But in the beginning, how it affected me was,
I think I grew up very confused,
and to an extent, like, you know, panel Allah has put it in our
fitra to recognize right and wrong. So there was a part of me
who always told me, this is not right. But at the same time, there
was a part that told me that maybe this is how it is, especially
because of the word, the the words that these men would use, you
know, they would make it seem like this is how it is, or they would
even make it seem like it's my fault. Or, you know, everybody
knows that, anybody who has gone through this knows this is one of
the tricks that these people use. They make it seem like it is our
fault. Oh, it's because you are cute. Or, like you said earlier,
it's cute, or it's because, you know you're a certain way, or it's
because you, you know you did something that is making me do
this. I'm not at fault, right, right? The panel law, and that's
just a child. Yeah, exactly, and, and, yeah, it's sad, but that's
how it was. Now, my relationship with the Quran Subhanallah was
maybe because of Alhamdulillah, like you know the other you know
aspects of you know, the other things that I had in my my life,
Alhamdulillah, I can say that you know my relationship with the
Quran washamed Like it was tainted. But at the same time, I
always still love the Quran like, you know, Alhamdulillah. Maybe
there were times when I felt like I don't want to do it anymore. I
don't want to go to my Quran class or whatever. But at the same time,
from a young age, my parents, especially me being the oldest
child, they did put me in positions of, you know, lead
helicopter kids, or, you know, in situations that were also
empowering for me. And so
I did have that beautiful relationship with the Quran, and I
always look towards the Ravi like in Ramadan, and because that's
when, you know, we, as you know, women in Saudi we would actually
go to the masjid, the whole of Ramadan. And I look forward to,
you know, listening to the Imam, and when he would be in tears and
all that. But like I said earlier, it was tainted in some way to the
extent that I started thinking all men, this is how all men are. Like
if I listen to a party or an imam recite Quran,
I would even think that, what's the point? He must have done this
too.
So it did cause issues of like mistrust
religious scholars or teachers.
And like I said, I was confused. So even though I thought maybe
they're all bad, I also thought I am bad, and carried around so much
shame and guilt throughout my adolescent years and
and, you know, maybe that's recently, when I was talking to my
dad about this. He reminded me how I was, and I was like, maybe
that's why I became a rebel. Like I had those rebellious years in my
life, and especially, and if I look back, I remember the times
that I rebel the most. It was always in the presence of these
people. Like, if I heard they are coming over just in my my
vicinity.
Right?
I would start, I would start acting weird, like people, are you
talking about your previous the Quran teachers? Yes, subhanAllah
and, and, you know, not just Quran teachers. I mean, Quran teachers
were the, you know,
and that made it seem like it was okay, because it's coming from
Quran teachers. But this is not just from Quran teachers like you
know
most often it's the very closest of family members too, right? That
you know girls and little girls and boys experience that have such
unfortunate experiences with so I remember there was this other
uncle figure in our lives. And anytime they came over, I would
start acting weird. I would start reveling I would I would say,
like, I'm I'm leaving. And I didn't know how to explain. I was,
I'm pretty sure I was, like, maybe eight or nine. I didn't know how
to explain and why, and I really didn't realize it at that point,
but I would actually take my bag and say, I'm leaving. I don't need
your permission. I'm leaving from here, and I would want to go to my
neighbor's house. Alhamdulillah, we had a, you know, good
neighborhood and good neighbors and all that. But, yeah, so they
are, you know, such memories are there.
But, yeah, but Alhamdulillah, my, you know, I always loved the Quran
regardless, even though there were times,
you know, I had those doubts and all that. But alhamdulillah, Quran
itself was beautiful. And, you know, we were encouraged to read
the meaning, and I think that helped. So, like you said, it was
very confusing. Yeah,
I'm sorry, yeah. So you're saying that as a child, your first real
professional exposure to study in Quran was changed because someone
in this position of teaching used their power to harm you as a
child. And not only that, they also make it seem like it's your
fault for as a child. So you're about when you were maybe four or
five years old. Yeah, and remember someone using
as an adult, someone using very, you know, position that they're in
to abuse. You molest all of these things, and then you are now
grappling with the fact that, okay, maybe I have something to do
with it, because you're saying you have to and guilt blame, and
you're listening to other people who are reciting Quran. And while
Quran is beautiful, you're also hearing it. And you think maybe
all people who recite Quran are like this, yes, yeah.
There was also so sometimes it would be, which I didn't realize
at that time, but sometimes they were like, you know, subtle
threats that made me stop from going and telling about it, to any
you know, to my parents, to my trusted adults in life,
how, how they would threaten is like, oh, you know what? You
didn't do your Quran well today, and I, I would go, I am going to
go and complain about it too, and you know, they would make it seem
so big and not, not, not that my parents are going to do anything
about it. But as a child, at that point, that fear was somehow more,
of course, yeah, sure,
yeah, subhanAllah so
and talking about like mistrust.
I even doubted my own dad,
yeah, I doubted my brothers. I doubted you know, when I got
married, I doubted his intentions, too, and
I also had a very confused for a long time, I had a very confused
perception of
love itself, of course, because, you know, love is very often and
in some ways it is tied to, you know, sexuality and all that. So I
I'm like, for example, when I say, mistrusted my dad, he would, you
know, when we when he would drop us off for classes. And there were
other like our friends carpooling with us. And I remember this
incident where one of the little girls was like, I need to use the
restroom really bad.
And my dad was like, we are just five minutes from home. Can we get
home? And then, you know, and trying to and then she's like, No,
no, no, no, I'm going to do it in the car. And then my dad pulls
over at a masjid to take her to the bathroom. And I'm like, oh,
no, no.
Let him not be the one to, you know, take her to the bathroom.
What if he does something, you know? So, um, yeah,
I'm sorry. I just said that's so hard, subhanAllah, for to be for
you, for you to have to doubt your own dad. Like, it was so intense
that your own father, you're scared, yes, yes, even though you
know, in all other ways, like, I mean, I wasn't scared that he
would do anything to me, but because I had this thought that
this is how, you know, this is what men do.
And then as I grew up and I started seeing that this was not
just happening to me, like I have witnessed. It happened to other
kids in the, you know, the madrasas grew there where, you
know, where we would actually rent out a space, and they would be at
a stat who came over and taught multiple kids at the same time.
And I would,
I have witnessed it happened to other kids as well. And
I remember is, you know, not that a friend of mine was like
again. For some reason, society has made it that even when I
witnessed it and my heart started racing and beating so fast. But
this other little girl who was my friend, she she started saying it
like as though it was that child's fault. And this was when we were,
like, maybe nine years old or 10 years old, because Subhan Allah
stats are perfect. They teach Quran,
so it's not their fault, right?
And so when she said that, it just it was like an affirmation for me.
Oh yeah, what happened to me in the past was probably my fault,
you know? And, I mean, I don't blame her. It's just the way we
are conditioned to think it is so strong, like till today,
even having this conversation with you, when my friends saw the fire,
and they were like, did you do? And I was like, yes,
Alhamdulillah, I did. Istikhara before, you know, having this
conversation.
But you know, even though everybody was appreciative, we
need to have this conversation and all that. Two of my friends were
like, I don't want your reputation to be tainted,
as though you know me, speaking about this is going to taint my
reputation, you know? And part of me did think about it for a
second. Oh, yeah. Is you know? Is that going to happen? I think I
spoke to you about that too, right, subhanAllah, because it's
so conditioned in us, right, that for some reason we are at fault,
right? Yeah, yeah. Subhanallah, so.
But, you know, I guess maybe at some level, I wanted to homeschool
my kids for the same reason, and this was back when, you know, to
protect them and to make sure they're always with me.
But I know that, Alhamdulillah, Alhamdulillah, you know, over the
years, I have started healing, and you know, now I'm able to still
making sure my kids are safe. You know, able to, because you can
keep them that way forever, right? They have to go and be with people
and friends and all that, and
the best workaround is having these communications with our
kids. Yes, yeah.
Thank you for
First of all, sharing your story, and for giving vocabulary to
people who have the same story, who want to talk about it, even if
it's just for their own selves, to someone that they trust
personally, but they don't the words to use to share it. And when
you said that, you know this other person, child said, well, stats
are perfect, you know, put on, teachers are perfect. It must have
been her fault or the child's fault. That's so rampant now, even
though we even can talk about, you know, religious teachers, who are
faces that we can say, you know, that person did some sort of
issue,
even then the pushback is, well, what was the sister doing? You
know, how, where, where were they? How was she dressed like? And that
conversation is, you know, in any society, it's not about religion.
We know women in general. When a woman come, the blame is then put
on her. And we have so much victim shaming in general.
But when we're talking about children, little kids who feel
like even their their safety figures, even their parents, even
authority figures, who they can go to find trust in when they are,
you know, painted in this way that they can feel wrong, that.
Is incoming kids inherently believing that, you know, and
teachers can do no wrong. It's a message that we are giving as a
society, our silence and not talking about these issues, and
because we're silent, either it doesn't happen or it's the fault
of the victim, even when they're children. So I can completely
understand the fear when you so courageously. Oh May Allah, bless
you.
You know, accept it to address this issue, I can completely
understand the fear of of the advice of friends who are like,
Are you sure you want to talk about this? But Subhanallah, when
you talk about things like in a public way. Other people see you
as you know, and they think
you know it's, it's, it wasn't my fault from 20 or 30 years ago. It
wasn't their fault from childhood. And maybe there is passion find
healing and closeness and owning their relationship with the Quran
too. Yes. Can you share us? How did you go from those experiences
to actually deciding that and for yourself, not because your parents
encourage you to lead a * of a so important and you can see these
like aspects in your story that help you go through this path,
but, but when you do decide that you want to be the one who uses
what this relationship looks like,
yeah.
It is, that's very interesting question, and because it really
made me think, because
it's it will for a long time, it was very hard for me to separate
my upbringing, and, you know, my parents role from me willingly
owning it and choosing the path, um,
SubhanAllah. I think it's definitely maybe, you know, after
I became an adult, because, you know, when you're with your
parents, and I mean, not just with your parents, like, are you going
to do this, even if nobody is around that kind of relationship,
like, yes, when you are in which a group of sisters doing Quran
khalapa and or your parents are constantly reminding you, and that
is your encouragement and motivation. And we need that. We
need that. But
I think it, it's
a lot of it has to do that at the same time.
Now I, you know, Quran is my Solis, and you know, I find so
much peace in the Quran and all the healing verses, and more than
that Subhanallah, when I started learning the tafsir, which was,
you know, I kind of learned a little bit here and there as a
kid, but, you know, after I came here and I started, you know,
attending classes and learning more in depth about the Quran and
all that,
that's what really pulled me. And like going into the tafsir and
reflections and all that, and also knowing Allah, because growing up,
that's another thing you are, especially in the, you know,
Eastern culture and all that.
Or, I don't know, maybe it's like that everywhere, but there was so
much focus on the do's and don'ts, and not necessarily on knowing
Allah like even if you look at the first verses of the Quran
Alhamdulillah community, it is the Quran itself starts with teaching
us or showing to us who Allah is. And so even with, you know, as a
parent or as a teacher, that's where our focus should be. When
you are, you know, trying to teach Islam to kids as the right way of
life knowing Allah. And when you know Allah the way that we should
know him, then your connection with his words is naturally going
to increase. Like an example I wanted to share when I say knowing
Allah is as a kid, there's, you know, there was so much focus on,
oh, if you don't do this, all is going to punish you, and you know
on that aspect, but knowing about his mercy and knowing his
beautiful names and attributes and how even the punishment is part of
his ad, his perfect justice, and, you know,
at the same time. So it was comforting. Allah's justice is
actually something to be comforted by, not cause care and overwhelm
and, Oh, I'm scared to, you know, be close to Allah's pandela,
right? So, yeah, knowing Allah's pantalla is the first thing I
would say that really pulled me to the Quran. And, you know, really
seeing that abusantela is my Wali, Wali, and he.
Is there for me. He knows, even when you know, in relation to what
we spoke about, the trauma and all that, even when nobody understood,
you know, sometimes I, like, you know, my parents also might not
have understood the gravity of it, or, you know, nobody could
understand. But almost was there to understand. I almost started,
you know, seeing it as anytime I had doubts, I would think,
What is Allah telling me about this?
And whenever I thought of it that way, it was always comfort,
because, you know, you have to separate Islam from Muslims or
from what you're conditioned to believe, and you know all that. So
just going directly to the source, which is Allah, that that is what
keeps it going and and it's not just for this topic or but
anything in life, and knowing that even if you have sinned, Allah is
always his doors are always open, even when we shun away, even when
we might not be listening to Allah, even when we are forgiving.
Allah about him, he's always thinking about us. Yesterday, I
was listening to this hadith of, you know, in the morning, Allah
is, you know, stretching his hand to forgive for everything you did
at night and in the night, Allah stretching his hand out to forgive
everything you did in the
morning.
And so Allah is always there to forgive us. Because the reason I
thought of forgiveness right now is again coming back to, you know,
kids, you know, adults who kind of live through this moment of, you
know, trauma, things that they have gone through. And I actually
remember I was, you know,
like giving a helipa, and we were talking about the club of, you
know, everything happens by Allah's Will and all that. And the
sister asked me, What if, as a result of, you know, some you
know, abuse that you went through as a child and
you got confused with the idea of, you know, because anotherham,
this is not something that happened to me, but one thing that
people also, you know, a lot of people who have gone through this
go through is they start seeking approval or love through this.
Yes, yes, yes. So she was telling me how she felt loved
and important or needed when people approached her in this way,
and when she shared with me her story of her because of what
happened to her in her childhood. She thought it was an act of love
when people you know abused their power and people misused her body.
She thought it was an act of love, and she continued on with her life
with that thought she was conditioned to believe that. And
so, you know, she would go into she would, you know, even as she
grew up, she went, she took this path for a while, and she was
asking me, will I be forgiven?
Because it was as a result of this. And
I, you know, all I could at that time, I couldn't say anything to
her.
I was dealing with my own emotions. But for somebody who
feels that way, of course, Allah will forgive you, even if it is
not because of that childhood experience and you still went to
that, but Allah is there for you, ready whenever you know when you
turn to him? Yeah, SubhanAllah. And also recognizing that is not
unaware of why people make the decision,
and how often people go through certain paths, you know, one of
the, it's interesting, high risk behavior that we talk about, like,
oh, you should expose your kids to all these things, because they'll
go into all these other things. You know, one of the, one of the
factors of high risk behaviors and lessons are these, these types of,
this type of painful exposure as children, and then not have
parents and not that, not that I'm saying this was your case, but not
parents who will help you navigate that and be able to cross trauma
and because also in our community, talk about sexuality or * at
all. In our community, it's still violence. We don't relationships
in our.
Community, so we don't have these conversations. So when someone is
exposed to something that's painful and traumatic, one way, as
a child, they don't have anything else to counter that. That's all
and then it's blame and shame and guilt. It can even talk about it.
So a lot knows that what you're going through and what the
decisions that you make are based in, all surrounded by all of these
other things. And I was actually asked the question, you know, very
recently, which was a young woman who said that she was molested as
a child, and she know why God didn't stop him from doing
and sure, you've come across, you know this, this question, or maybe
have thought, I don't know if you've ever had question. What
would you respond to someone who has that type of a question? Yeah,
subhanAllah, that's, again, a very deep question.
It's, it's just like how? You know, there are other calamities
in the world, right?
Allah necessarily doesn't
like it, but he allows things to happen. And I do believe there's,
you know, even though, even though I know when you're going through
the situation, you're not able to see any higher at the end. But
even for these kind of experiences, there is a higher and
it's, it's like,
why are we thinking about Allah's pandela? Like, why didn't he stop
this? What about the person who was inflicting the sin? Why didn't
he stop it? Right, right? So your anger, or your you
know, instead of thinking that about Allah's pandela, you should
be thinking about you can direct it to the person who's inflicting
it about him. Allah gave him or her the free will to do that, and
he chose to do that right. And now the higher in it is
that
even though it was, it's a bad, negative experience, but it is a
part of you that you can use to make sure it doesn't happen to
anybody else.
Uh, advocate, like you said earlier, you know, when you're
silent about these things, you are in in essence, supporting these
things. So, you know, talk about these things and prevent it and
and, you know, I know people are, I wasn't. So I know you don't
want, you know you don't want to, necessarily, if you're going, if
you have gone through this, it's not something you want to hear.
But also look at the psychology of the person who inflicted this upon
you. I do try to think that maybe they went through the similar
trauma or something, because when we talk about forgiveness,
forgiveness is for everybody.
It doesn't justify what they did at all. It doesn't, it doesn't at
all. But if they turn to Allah, love will forgive them also.
They turn to Allah, Allah will forgive them. That doesn't mean
that, that doesn't justify what they did at all in any way or
form. But
Allah can forgive them if you know, if they truly, truly repent
so
and I wasn't ready to embrace this still very recently, and it's
okay, this is another thing, like you should not be pushed to accept
that
it's a Journey. It took a long time for me to be able to say what
I just said right now that, you know, after a point like I did,
harbor ill feelings and negative feelings for a long, long, long,
long time, and I still hate the people who continue to do it to
people, to other kids, but at the same time, hope is not lost for
them either, if they repent.
And that's the only way we can truly address this right? You? If
you think about it, that's the only way we can truly address this
issue. We we have to, if we want to stop it, they need to be given
the hope that Allah is there to
accept their repentance if they repent. I want to just clarify a
couple of things that you've mentioned, and one is that Allah
does allow it. You started the reflection, and then you talked
about free will, and bring those two things together, because
sometimes, when someone hears what that mean, Allah does allow it,
but what I believe you're saying, and you know, looking at our
religion, it teaches us.
We are taught that God has given every single humanity free will.
So we are all chose the actions that we.
Take. So when we say something like God allows it, it's because
he has allowed for all human beings to have
and so instead, exactly like you said, instead of focusing on why
God didn't miraculously, physically somehow stop it, we
should be focusing on why did the perpetrator use their God given
free will to harm someone else. Exactly? Does that qualify for
clarifying that? Yes. Other point that I think is, you know,
something really important, and you mentioned this absolutely, is
that there's no expectation that someone who's been abused has no
Islam doesn't ask you to forgive
if you are harmed you or abuse you in any way, and when talking about
that person can seek forgiveness from God. O faulty one is saying
that that person can ask God to completely forgive them for the
harm that they've caused other people. However, that person is
still responsible to
make to they still hold consequences of the actions that
they did to others Exactly. God can forgive this person as a as an
individual, as a general individual, coming back to him
that gate, the responsibility that they hold to now have to be
accountable for the crimes that they've committed towards people
and the amends that they need to take and what they need to do to
fix those and that's very you know, it's very hard to talk about
something that happened 30 years ago, and how are they going to
make something that happened 30 years ago? Only God knows how that
that kind of accountability or rectifying is going to happen if
they don't even know anymore, but tell the person in their store in
your life, that's a different story. But we're talking about
like, now you're in different countries, you never, you don't
even remember the person's name, like that type of issue. Yes,
first, you're still held accountable for the things that
you've other people through. But still, God's door is open. But I
think that you know, it's important that you've met
something is, we are, how are we going to stop the cycle if we
don't talk about forgiveness, and I think that's a really important
factor, but at the same time, I think we need to talk about, how
are we going to change the cycle if we don't also address the fact,
like you said, you know, many of these abusers, maybe they have
some trauma that they
and so they never rectified their trauma, and so they're
perpetuating that trauma into onto children or onto people. And so I
think, like that conversation goes back to community responsibility.
May Allah, bless you. You know, like you said, there's always
goodness in even the difficulties, the pain that we go through, we
would never say there's something good being abused ever. But what
that's not what you're saying. What you're saying is, as adults,
you are now in a very unique position where you can choose to
use your voice to stop and prevent and change the cycle of this
happening in the future, and that shouldn't be your responsibility.
You should not have to be in that position, because unity. We should
be standing and all of us should be speaking out against this, and
should actively be addressing the systems which can allow for this
to continue in our societies and our communities, that that is what
we should be taking away. Yes, super saying that as someone who
recognizes that that's not the reality of our community right
now, that you are unfortunately not. And even now the sorry to
interrupt. But even now,
there is increased awareness. But still, there more people are ready
to advocate for the one who inflicts these crimes than the one
who went through it. I don't like to call them victims, because, you
know, we don't want to, you know, feel sad about ourselves or
anything, right? When I say there are people ready to advocate for
the perpetrator, what I mean is when the one who has gone through
this was subjected to this, when they are told, Oh, you know what,
you have to forgive, like, you know, loves forgiveness, right?
And forcing that on the person is is indirectly, actually advocating
for the these type of crimes to continue, right? Right? Cuz you
are already giving the message that, oh, I can do this and be
forgiven.
Yes. Up,
how grateful that you have shared so much of your story, also not
just what you've gone through, but where you are now, and thoughts
that you've had that it's taking you years to get to this point,
not only conceptualized, but you're also talking about it. How,
how would you say that someone who's going through, who has gone
through this, who's now an adult, but who has an aversion to the
Quran or to Islam rule because of their experience. What do you that
they do?
It's a you know, be I want to be there for you. I.
For somebody who has gone through this, know that I understand.
There are people like you said, Mariam, you understand, and you
have no obligation to you know you don't have to. Don't feel bad for
feeling the things that you're feeling. Embrace it. It is the
first step to your healing, and know that what happened to you
that does not define who you are. That's not you. That was something
that was forced upon you when you were so little and you didn't know
any better, right? And when, especially when it comes to, you
know, religious and spiritual abuse, sometimes, even if you're
an adult, because of the spiritual power that the perpetrator holds
in their hands, you still are. You still are not to be bullied, even
if you are an adult, because, you know, we look up to these
teachers. We look up to these scholars, and so if they do
something bad, it's them abusing that power and us,
to an extent, calling for it.
But at the same time, be your own advocate, especially if you're an
adult, be your own advocate, and know that you don't need anybody's
approval. Or, you know, don't fall for no matter how religious
seeming they are, or whatever. Don't fall for these because I
know it happens to adults as well. It happens to a lot of adult women
as well, because you see them as a religious authority. So you think
it happens, yeah, so always stand up for yourself, and that's what
Allah wants you to do too, like you are an empowered woman
or even a man.
And so if you have like, especially now coming back to not
as an adult, but if you went through something as a child
again, it doesn't define you, and you don't need to forgive that
person. But know that this is not from the Dean, even if it came
from religious
authorities or teachers, it is not from the Dean. The deen is
beautiful. Lost patella is beautiful. He, He loves you, and
He knows you, and he's your friend. Literally, he, he's your
best friend. And
so if, if you are out there struggling, know that you are
beautiful too, and you know, these things don't define you. And,
yeah, that's what I want to say. And shut out the voices that tell
you otherwise. Shut out the voices that tell you that you are somehow
guilty or you need to feel shame, because it's not you who did it,
right? If you are a perpetrator out there, then you need to feel
the shame. Yes, you feel guilty about it, you regret it, but not
the other person, not the you know, victim, even though I don't
like to use the survivor, thank you. Yes, yeah, and they were
expecting, because children are, you know, now, now they're
survivors, absolutely but so horrific. Thank you. That is so
powerful to say that you know you are not what happened to you. You
are your own person. You own your narrative. You have the power to
do that. You have the power to choose your relationship.
I you know, I really also recommend therapy and definitely
just knowing Allah in a new way. There's a book called The names of
Allah, reflecting on the names of Allah by Gina, and you said,
reflecting Names of Allah, getting to know who Allah is. You know,
these are also important. OS, Can you recite Quran for us? Can you
help us see that despite starting, you know, with a difficult,
difficult experience is so horrific, it's not enough to say.
But despite the trauma of someone who is a religious or and teacher
harming you as a child, Tabata law, you have, you have more Quran
than so many are Ummah
I don't have your beautiful recitation.
Please recite mashallah inshallah. Yes, I will inshallah.
Before we I recite, I wanted to say this last thing because you
know you have you were mentioning about children. They're innocent.
They are victims.
So to parents and adults in their lives, really, you know, be there
for them, protect them, and I'm hoping nobody does it these days.
But if your child comes in tells you something they have been you
know that happened to them. Don't shame them in any way or.
Like even subtle ways, like, be very careful of the language that
you use, and don't push the child to let go, you know. Let go, you
know. And, yeah, that's one thing. And yeah, because you have to,
it's not just their physical bodies that you're responsible to
protect it's their mental health, emotional health, all these
things, definitely that's so important.
Okay, I'll recite
and
I'm just going to recite three or four is, and I have chosen the
ayahs. The last ayah I really wanted to recite because, you
know, it's talking about shifa in, you know, the Quran is shifa and
guidance and all that. But that ayah has, you know, quite a few
variations. I'm not going to be reciting all the variations. Okay,
there it is. Okay? Yes, it's, it's Sura Yunus, 54 to 57 and Maria,
maybe you can, you know, give your reflection on those areas once I'm
done reading. Oh, no, we would only want to hear
from you. So been there. You want to share one of our teams? Memory,
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I'll stop there. There are other variations, but I'll stop there.
Incredible to see back to back with the same parts of the verses,
or the same verse, Masha, Allah, that was beautiful. And Allah, I
mean, this is a very particular specialization. Why did you choose
to go into a learning
I it was more of a, you know, progression, logical progression.
So, you know, once I did my half, ijaza and my teacher would give
snippets of different when they were doing haves. And, you know,
he would always encourage us to, you know, the the deen is West for
anybody. And so I think that's what got me so interested into it.
It, even though it may sound like, oh, but the Quran is just one.
Yes, the Quran is just one, but these small variations have
different purposes. One is, you know, subhanAllah at the time. You
know the different considering the different dialects of the people
who used to read Quran,
and also some of the times, their meanings that actually complement
each other, which is considered in fiqh, right when we learn fiqh,
and even otherwise, and even like, for example, the most famous
example everybody quotes is Maliki omidine versus Maliki omdin, and
both of them have to do with Allah sovereignty, and you know, his
kingship. But one, one of them mean that, you know, he's the king
of, like, all macro, like, you know, and one of them is micro.
He's also the king of all small things, and knows all of them. So,
you know, these little, little things really got me into Kara.
And, like you said, when you read everything back to back. It just
there's time for it to be absorbed into you and just wash over your
body. Can you share reflections? Because you know, after and when I
was listening to the verses, I heard them in a whole new light
that I had never thought of before because of what we had just
discussed, can you share with elections on what you recited?
Yeah, subhanAllah, like, you know, I think it sums up a lot of things
we were talking about. Like it these is show us how, you know,
there's Shepherd and Quran, there's so much hope. And you know
that you
even, you know, even if it was a teacher who did all that to me,
and he was teaching the most beautiful words ever, but, yeah, I
It's, it cannot. The Quran cannot be tainted
just because somebody who did something bad, or somebody who's
bad recites is the Quran is still pure in its pure form. And knowing
that it's going to be, you know, shifa in my heart, and I think
that's why I love this Aya so much and
and then it also touches upon Abu Asmaa justice. And so for a person
who is, you know, dealing with having to
or who's being told to, oh, because Allah does talk about
forgiveness in the other areas. But over here, Allah is promising
him his justice. So if you have been wronged, No, Allah will take
care of it. Allah will bring justice. And so these are some of
the, you know, and because the first ayah talks about, you know,
the person who does VUL right, and, and this is being mentioned,
and, yeah, and at the same time, over here, yeah, become this. Aya
is very often used to scare people like Maharaja. It means
admonition. Or, you know, Quran is a admission from your Lord, but
so it is an admonition for people who are doing bad. It is, it is so
it's such a just like Allah is our deen is such a beautiful it's
balanced so perfectly to help us to be on that right path, right?
So it's shifa, it's guidance, it's also an admonition. So yeah,
Alhamdulillah and and a reminder that we are all going to be
returned to Allah, which doesn't necessarily.
We have to balance hope and fear. But it doesn't have to be all. You
know, thinking about
returning to Allah's pandala is a beautiful thing too, because you
you know, when you love Allah's father, when you love somebody,
you want to be with them.
And that was so beautiful, I can't think enough courage that you've
been talking so personally about something that impacts so many
people and is not spoken about enough. I pray that, Inshallah,
today, many people who feel like they can go on their own healing
journey and choose to own their narrative the Quran, instead of
allowing anyone to weaponize it for them because of your words you
have spoken, you've been a voice for so many people who don't know
how to use their voice, or who want to use their voice but aren't
ready, or who are using their voices and Inshallah, together
that we will be able to shift our community how to people contact
you
or seeking any advice from you, if maybe someone has been, you know,
confused on how they move forward, what's, what's the best way to
connect with you? So right now, on Instagram, my page is in street,
but that page is primarily for, you know, I offer, I am the
founder of Elm Street, and the page offers, you know, shows what
I do and the different classes I teach for kids and all that. But
in future, I'm actually also a certified transformation coach,
Alhamdulillah and but you know, so Inshallah, I do hope to, I always
wanted to, even before I came out with the story, and it felt so
liberating to zekolo Mariam for the opportunity, I feel a burden
lift off, literally, because just speaking about it is so important.
And it doesn't have to be on an Instagram Live or, you know,
publicly like this, but talk about it to your friends, even it's
going to bring you so much comfort. And if you're not ready,
just talk to Allah. Talk to yourself. Write it down. Just
journal about it. Write down your feelings. You'll feel so much
better. But if people want to contact me for now, they can
contact me on Instagram at Elm Street. And Inshallah, I would
love to you know, help anybody
going through this Inshallah,
S, T, R, E,
faltima, it was such an honor and a gift. Have you my honor and
share the story of so many other people, bonaclofiki and Inshallah,
we will continue to and Inshallah, raise, amplify the voice that you
speak with. God bless you so much. I mean, to the extent that I pray
that Inshallah, this thing is removed from the world that we
don't have to talk about,
we're not talking about it because it doesn't exist for real, exactly
because we're pretending it doesn't exist, yes,
so Hanukkah,
you.