Lauren Booth – Western Students derail Zionist Dystopia

Lauren Booth
AI: Summary ©
The speaker discusses the ongoing discussion of the "monster" and "monster" narrative, as well as the use of TikTok and Instagram to promote anti-cibile and anti-cibile groups. They emphasize the need for political engagement and cooperation in addressing issues such as racism and the rise of white supremacy, as well as the importance of education and empowerment of the American public. They also touch on the negative impact of the current political climate on people, particularly on their ability to express themselves and their values. The speaker suggests that there is a need for strong political stance and better understanding of the teachings of the prophet Muhammad, as well as for people to be present to catch the emotional and political nature of the situation.
AI: Transcript ©
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Gaza is a cipher for the confusion in

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the world right now. Americans

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have had a veil ripped

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off them. They've been shaken from the reverie

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of junk food and junk telly and junk

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lives

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to look and really consider

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why are we here?

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There's no question that,

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the impact

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of Gaza

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has touched on virtually every corner of of

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the world and,

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every segment of almost every society. I mean,

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we're talking about Muslims, but also non Muslims.

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We're talking about

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leftists and Jews, and we're talking about mothers

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and

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grand grandparents

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and young and the such.

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And the kind of,

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of of reaction

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to the genocide over the course of the

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past 7 months

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has been absolutely amazing. But that

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impact has not only touched on people,

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but it has definitely

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impacted on,

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public opinion, on societies. People all of a

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sudden

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and I have to say I'm someone who's

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been in this particular fight now for decades.

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Probably for the very first time,

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I'm noticing this kind of change in media

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narrative

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and media coverage,

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because of the kind of commentators that are

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coming on and the things that are that

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that they are saying,

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how has has all of this seen

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from

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your your point of view? How how has

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it looked? What what's what's your impression of

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all of this, especially when you look back

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at your homeland

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and the kind of reaction there and,

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you know, what's happening on the on the

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level of media, politics, everything, society. There's two

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things here, isn't there? There are the guests

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that are coming on to the mainstream

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and are saying extraordinary

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things that you go, oh, you can't say

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that in the UK, but now you can,

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which are truths,

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which are self evident truths using the word

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genocide,

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talking about mass murder, talking about the occupation

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as a settler colonial occupation,

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moving the parameters of the debate. But then

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there's something else.

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Underneath that is a refusal

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by Sky News and BBC

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to change their way of thinking,

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and they're looking really out of step. So

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I'll give you an example. A couple of

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days ago,

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there was a Sky News presenter

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at one of the,

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occupation

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of campus movements in the states. I don't

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can't remember which one. And she said, they're

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chanting anti Semitic things here, and you can

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hear them going, we're not moving. We're not

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you can hear it. Kind of it's a

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bit fuzzy. And she's like, yes. I can't

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understand what it is, but it's clearly anti

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Semitic.

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And you're like, never. I mean, that's gotta

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be a meme. That's gotta be if there

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is a moment

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in media history that represents the now, it's

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that

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false framing continuing

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and making,

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you know, our main our main street colleagues

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look stupid.

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You know, the the press conference that was

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delivered by Netanyahu

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a few days ago, you know, sort of

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lambasting

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the student movements across America, claiming that they

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were calling for the death

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for Jews when there were

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hundreds

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of camps

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erected by Jews

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against Zionism and against Israel and against the

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genocide,

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proudly standing in the front lines of all

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of this,

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it was almost

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farcical had it not been so tragic. I

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know it absolutely is farcical. And you see

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now,

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because everybody has a camera phone,

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that when people try to fake an attack,

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it's really not coming across.

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The the the the young woman who said

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they stabbed me in the eye when they

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just walked past and did that.

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You know, how ridiculous that is.

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3, 2, 3, 5 years ago, that there

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wouldn't have been the counternarrative.

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The problem is that she can say that

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on the Piers Morgan show. Piers Morgan will

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continue to repeat it. And so will the

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mainstream media until it's a girl was hospitalized.

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Are you happy with this? And you say

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it didn't happen. They're like, it did happen.

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And so we're we're kind of post truth.

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Yeah. We are post truth. You've got Netanyahu

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sitting in a studio going, I can't believe

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that us, the most moral people on earth

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with the best army, are being accused of

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terrible things. It's like

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and so

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how do we and how do our coming

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generation

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and those who are awakened to this reality

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cope with that dystopia?

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That's the ongoing question. How do any of

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us cope

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when they will lie?

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But the refreshing thing is that people are

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seeing through that, and they're seeing throughout almost

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instantaneously.

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I mean, for instance, that press conference, Netanyahu,

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claiming that there were cause for death

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of Jews and, death to America. I mean,

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no one was was saying that.

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And then people were responding with images of,

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you know, people erecting medical tents and, you

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know,

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erecting medical tents and, you know, the tents

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where people can have discussions on various issues

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and and crashes for children. And

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and and and

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this generation, and I experienced this from my

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own children as well as from those I

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see,

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they're extremely nuanced in terms of how to

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react, how to fact check. You know, that

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term that we we all

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all of a sudden had when Trump came

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into presidency a few years ago,

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but now

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the young are actually doing that. They are

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fact checking for themselves. They do it. And

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and you're correct in terms of the BBC

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and Sky and, and CNN and the like.

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They're so out of step

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that people are switching off, and they're turning

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to new forms of information.

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And the young particularly are immediately getting to

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the heart of the matter, to the truth

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they're finding out for themselves. They're getting to

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the source of what's happening,

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and

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they're relaying it in such a creative

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fashion.

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So this begs the question,

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is it that modern technology was which was

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brought about by the system

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that I label often as being so corrupt,

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you know, capitalism and the like and materialism

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and consumerism that it's, you know, thrust down

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our throats.

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Is it that this has found,

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you know, that particular way to find out

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truth from falsehood?

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So listen. The whole but the social media,

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you know, on the ground personal

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reportage

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that has come through the last 10 years

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and 5 years really may given us access.

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I mean, Gaza was cut off. They said

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that, you know, Netanyahu

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and his goons still think we cut out

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Jazira and nobody will see. Of course, that

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is a horror.

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And that always pre pre precedes a horror,

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but it's not gonna do it because people

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find ways around it. But here's the interesting

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thing and here's what we should be aware

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of, and I hope really clever people are

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working on this in this coming generation.

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They will stop TikTok,

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and they do stop you on Meta,

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and they do blind us,

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and they do promote certain narratives. And the

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majority of Americans are still buying that narrative

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because that's what reaches them.

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So in this

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fog of social media war, are there I

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pray that there are really smart people who

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are going, we've we're already 2 years into

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the alternative.

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But who will buy into the alternative? If

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we don't own the mainstream, how do we

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get the message across? So we're almost kind

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of coming to

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the end of communication

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on TikTok and Instagram.

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What next? Yeah. I mean, and the question

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what next is the question that everyone is

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asking about

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because we've been through so many

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phases, I would say, or events,

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most of which unfortunately have been tragic

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and devastating,

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where we thought that these were going to

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be the transformative

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events, but then they sort of

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George Floyd. For instance. I mean,

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when that happened,

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I mean, the whole world was up in

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arms. All of a sudden, statues of slave

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masters were being brought down

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everywhere in France, in Germany, in Britain, in

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America.

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And then it sort of fizzled out a

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little bit. So a couple of things on

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on that because it does relate to the

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Palestinian struggle. So, Alhamdulillah, I've been invited to

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Doha to speak at

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a female Palestinian conference

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and to workshop ideas on moving forward

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in collaboration

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with the Western

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interest that's coming through these university campuses.

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And we have to look at the paradigms

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that already exist. George Floyd seemed to be

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this changing moment,

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but then collapsed.

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Well, I have a theory about that, which

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is,

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not my own theory. It it is out

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there that

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the George Floyd

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Black Lives Matter movement was already corrupted from

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within

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because it was primarily an LGBTQ

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movement.

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And you could say that a section of

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that movement who were highly paid disliked the

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black man as much as the police force.

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So you have got a break there. You've

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got

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people saying, Save this group in society, but

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not them.

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Right? And it's that all genocides,

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hinge upon

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separating the men from the women and the

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children.

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And so we're seeing this. Let's take it

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back to Gaza. In Rafa, you've got these

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checkpoints now. We'll let the women and children

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through. We'll do horrible things to most of

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them, but some will get through. But the

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men, You Rabbi Allamina, they're not human beings.

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We're being asked by these movements continually to

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separate the men as if they're they're subhuman

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and dangerous.

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And that that's an issue for, for our

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communities going forward. So when I speak to

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my Muslim sisters in the Palestinian movement,

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I'm like, be be aware of the golden

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handcuffs

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of western liberalism.

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Because, you know, if we if once the

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killing

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actually stops and Israel has a number in

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mind for mass murder and then they'll go,

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we're done here,

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Uzibele,

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Then there will come people coming in and

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saying, hey. We love your women's empowerment group.

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Let's do this work together. We'll give you

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20,000,000. It's from this wonderful NGO.

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And in 5 years, there'll be no hijab,

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no face, and no memory of Palestine, and

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it'll all be coexistence and da da da

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da. So we've gotta be careful of that.

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We have to be so strong in our

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own narrative. And I think I get the

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sense that a lot of the youngsters

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from UCL,

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from Goldsmiths,

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from,

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you know, all of the Columbia,

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because of the George Floyd movement,

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they actually are awake to needing somebody else's

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narrative to be alive

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and to allowing that. So, yes, it wasn't

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a success in that laws didn't change. Not

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one life has been noticeably

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noticeably saved, unfortunately, on the streets of America.

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Right? Nobody's got wealthier. No rep repayment has

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been made.

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But those kids were still impacted enough, inshallah,

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to accept another person's narrative

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as gold and worth protecting. Is it is

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it also

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fair to argue that all of these events

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that I alluded to

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for the past, let's say, 25 years,

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they have sort of played an incremental role,

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maybe, you know, step by step in order

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to for us to arrive at this particular

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moment where this is this this there is

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this mass explosion of emotions as well as

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convictions as well

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as a search into the fundamental

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ideas or so called values

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of the fathers of the, you know, of

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the of the bastions of of democracy and

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human rights of the past 50 years or

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so. Is it is it fair to say

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that they have played that role? I mean,

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for instance, I go back

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to the anti war movement that, started in

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2001, 2002, 2000 and 2, 2000 and 2,000

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I'm glad you brought that up. I'm glad

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you brought that up because I don't I

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don't at the moment know where I stand

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on protests. On the one

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hand, this wonderful dynamic energy brings people together.

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On the other, it's 1,000,000 of hours that

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should be that could be, not should, but

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could it be spent somewhere else? Isn't this

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controlled descent? And the minute it's not controlled,

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oh, you can march a 1000000 people down

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here, but don't put a tent up there.

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We'll beat you and take you. Doesn't that

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tell us that that the parrot control paradigm

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is kind of okay with protests? However,

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I'm now gonna undo that. And I'm gonna

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say,

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in 2001

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2003, sorry, when millions of us took to

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the streets against the Iraq cataclysm,

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put in by the the the British prime

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minister at the time

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and,

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enacted shock and awe, all of that. Your

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brother-in-law. Yeah. Tony Blair,

00:13:09 --> 00:13:10

that we felt

00:13:10 --> 00:13:13

disappointed, horrified as things unrolled. And we're like,

00:13:13 --> 00:13:15

well, that didn't work. If you if 2,000,000

00:13:15 --> 00:13:17

people on the streets can't do anything, what's

00:13:17 --> 00:13:19

the point? Where's the democracy? But

00:13:19 --> 00:13:21

6 years later,

00:13:21 --> 00:13:23

that same prime minister had to leave a

00:13:23 --> 00:13:25

little bit earlier than they wanted.

00:13:26 --> 00:13:28

And the Labour Party had to kind of

00:13:28 --> 00:13:28

maneuver

00:13:29 --> 00:13:32

itself and change its its outlook because of

00:13:32 --> 00:13:34

that. Because we because they they just we

00:13:34 --> 00:13:35

disperse, but we didn't forget.

00:13:36 --> 00:13:38

So I don't know. It's it's slow change.

00:13:38 --> 00:13:40

It's agonizing change.

00:13:40 --> 00:13:41

And you and you have to watch people

00:13:41 --> 00:13:43

die and and be in pain in the

00:13:43 --> 00:13:44

midst of it.

00:13:45 --> 00:13:46

But in a way,

00:13:47 --> 00:13:49

I mean, whilst the devastation of Gaza is

00:13:49 --> 00:13:50

immeasurable

00:13:50 --> 00:13:51

and it's extremely

00:13:52 --> 00:13:53

probably impossible to quantify.

00:13:54 --> 00:13:56

Mean, we talk we continue to talk about

00:13:56 --> 00:13:58

these tens of thousands killed, tens of thousands,

00:14:00 --> 00:14:03

injured, and 1,000 upon 1,000 under the rubble

00:14:03 --> 00:14:04

still.

00:14:05 --> 00:14:06

But it's not

00:14:07 --> 00:14:09

a numbers game. It's

00:14:09 --> 00:14:13

about the devastation of so many lives, of

00:14:13 --> 00:14:15

so many dreams, of so many potentials, of

00:14:15 --> 00:14:16

so many aspirations.

00:14:16 --> 00:14:17

It's about

00:14:18 --> 00:14:18

the devastation

00:14:19 --> 00:14:21

of the the fundamental

00:14:21 --> 00:14:22

values, which

00:14:22 --> 00:14:24

which the western world particularly

00:14:25 --> 00:14:27

held so high

00:14:27 --> 00:14:29

for since the, you know, the 2nd world

00:14:29 --> 00:14:32

war. And for which

00:14:32 --> 00:14:35

the wars in Afghanistan were fought. The wars

00:14:35 --> 00:14:38

in Iraq were fought. So many wars. So

00:14:38 --> 00:14:39

many conflicts around the world. That be it.

00:14:39 --> 00:14:41

And we don't believe don't believe don't believe

00:14:41 --> 00:14:43

they were fought. Well, that was why people

00:14:43 --> 00:14:45

backed them because they claimed

00:14:46 --> 00:14:48

that it was for human right. It was

00:14:48 --> 00:14:50

for the liberation of women. The very same

00:14:50 --> 00:14:52

soldiers who are now arresting young

00:14:53 --> 00:14:55

girls across American campuses. Them out of hijab.

00:14:56 --> 00:14:57

Forcing them out of hijab

00:14:57 --> 00:15:00

and treating them in the most brutal ways.

00:15:00 --> 00:15:02

The very same. But it was only ever

00:15:02 --> 00:15:04

a veneer. So what's interesting is is that

00:15:04 --> 00:15:06

veneer a harder cell now? Is it more

00:15:06 --> 00:15:09

fragile than it's ever been? Is it the

00:15:09 --> 00:15:10

pecking of a bird at the shell of

00:15:10 --> 00:15:12

an egg that and something is about to

00:15:12 --> 00:15:15

emerge? You can't interfere with that process. It

00:15:15 --> 00:15:17

has to be peck, peck, peck, and take

00:15:17 --> 00:15:18

that amount of time. Maybe.

00:15:19 --> 00:15:21

Inshallah, God God willing. What's,

00:15:22 --> 00:15:25

what's your impression as to the

00:15:26 --> 00:15:27

the political discourse,

00:15:28 --> 00:15:29

the kind of argument

00:15:30 --> 00:15:33

that we need to use this moment in

00:15:33 --> 00:15:35

order to impact the political class,

00:15:35 --> 00:15:36

to tell

00:15:36 --> 00:15:38

them that we don't want

00:15:38 --> 00:15:40

this anymore. We want something else.

00:15:41 --> 00:15:42

What do you think of this? You're not

00:15:42 --> 00:15:44

gonna like this. I don't believe in politics.

00:15:44 --> 00:15:46

I don't believe in any of it.

00:15:47 --> 00:15:49

You don't believe I don't believe I don't

00:15:49 --> 00:15:51

believe in this class of politicians

00:15:52 --> 00:15:54

as having any morality. Something has gone badly

00:15:54 --> 00:15:57

wrong with the human being, and it's nihilism.

00:15:58 --> 00:16:00

And it is a a lack of faith.

00:16:00 --> 00:16:02

It's a lack of belief in God.

00:16:02 --> 00:16:05

And these these, I'm sorry, they are godless,

00:16:05 --> 00:16:06

monetized,

00:16:07 --> 00:16:07

robotized

00:16:08 --> 00:16:09

human beings

00:16:10 --> 00:16:12

who you can't reach. I mean, how it's

00:16:12 --> 00:16:12

almost

00:16:13 --> 00:16:17

it's akin to to a physical pain

00:16:17 --> 00:16:20

to watch a girl stand up at a

00:16:20 --> 00:16:23

major talk of Hillary Clinton and say, children

00:16:23 --> 00:16:25

are dying in Gaza. My family just got

00:16:25 --> 00:16:26

killed. And she's like, can you get her

00:16:26 --> 00:16:29

out of here, please? And you're like, oh

00:16:29 --> 00:16:31

god. There are demons walking amongst us.

00:16:31 --> 00:16:33

How do how do we reach those people?

00:16:33 --> 00:16:34

They don't want us to reach them. They'll

00:16:34 --> 00:16:35

just build walls

00:16:36 --> 00:16:38

and, and put police in the way. It's

00:16:38 --> 00:16:41

almost isn't it almost a reaching a just

00:16:41 --> 00:16:43

write them off and do something different?

00:16:45 --> 00:16:48

I have to examine this one. No. No.

00:16:48 --> 00:16:49

No. I mean I just don't believe that

00:16:49 --> 00:16:51

they have any ethics. I don't believe there's

00:16:51 --> 00:16:53

an ethical system. You you have a point,

00:16:53 --> 00:16:53

but

00:16:54 --> 00:16:57

my investigation, if you wish, will

00:16:57 --> 00:16:59

depart from the point as to

00:17:00 --> 00:17:01

well,

00:17:01 --> 00:17:03

in light of the kind of reality that

00:17:03 --> 00:17:05

we have. Okay. So the reality is solid.

00:17:05 --> 00:17:08

Yeah. Reality is polluted on every single level.

00:17:08 --> 00:17:10

I'm with you. You know, I

00:17:10 --> 00:17:11

think that, the,

00:17:12 --> 00:17:13

you know, the new liberal,

00:17:15 --> 00:17:17

ideology that's painted everything,

00:17:19 --> 00:17:20

that brought us this

00:17:21 --> 00:17:23

that had the facade of democracy but now

00:17:23 --> 00:17:26

bit by bit is being revealed as

00:17:27 --> 00:17:29

something akin to the kind of brutal dictatorships

00:17:29 --> 00:17:31

that we find across the Arab world

00:17:32 --> 00:17:35

only in a nicer garb, in a suit

00:17:35 --> 00:17:37

and tie, in a, you know, kind of

00:17:37 --> 00:17:40

neat cutlery sort of put in a French

00:17:40 --> 00:17:42

etiquette point of view, but is now being

00:17:42 --> 00:17:44

revealed by the people who are trying to

00:17:44 --> 00:17:46

change that kind of system. Is it a

00:17:46 --> 00:17:48

bit like the end of The Wizard of

00:17:48 --> 00:17:49

Oz? Right? A bit. Where where Dorothy's standing

00:17:49 --> 00:17:51

there in this big voice, I will do

00:17:51 --> 00:17:53

this. And she goes behind. There's a little

00:17:53 --> 00:17:54

man going, hey. Give me a minute. And

00:17:54 --> 00:17:56

there's behind them and then it turns out

00:17:56 --> 00:17:57

to be nothing whatsoever.

00:17:58 --> 00:18:00

Is this a bit of this? And the

00:18:00 --> 00:18:01

question is okay. So

00:18:02 --> 00:18:04

how do we start

00:18:05 --> 00:18:05

to,

00:18:06 --> 00:18:08

to change all of this? How do we

00:18:08 --> 00:18:09

begin

00:18:10 --> 00:18:12

to address these issues? How to how do

00:18:12 --> 00:18:13

we get back

00:18:15 --> 00:18:17

on the right track, on the track towards

00:18:17 --> 00:18:19

building something else? Now,

00:18:21 --> 00:18:23

you and I are both Muslims. We have

00:18:23 --> 00:18:26

our fundamental beliefs in that, you know, the

00:18:26 --> 00:18:28

entire universe is focused and the focal point

00:18:28 --> 00:18:29

is

00:18:29 --> 00:18:31

Allah. We we all know that.

00:18:31 --> 00:18:33

But the fact is that the majority of

00:18:33 --> 00:18:35

people aren't Muslims, and they do not depart

00:18:35 --> 00:18:37

from that same point. Well, now you've raised

00:18:37 --> 00:18:39

it. Okay. That's that's that's problematic.

00:18:40 --> 00:18:42

And that's problematic. Why? Because that void has

00:18:42 --> 00:18:45

been filled by nihilism. And nihilism is a

00:18:45 --> 00:18:46

structural belief where

00:18:46 --> 00:18:50

nothing exists, nothing matters, and that leads to

00:18:50 --> 00:18:51

depression, psychosis,

00:18:52 --> 00:18:54

and a very dark gloomy way of looking

00:18:54 --> 00:18:56

at, let me just get what is here

00:18:56 --> 00:18:58

now. So when I'm talking about, I don't

00:18:58 --> 00:19:00

believe that the political process

00:19:01 --> 00:19:02

can work as it stands,

00:19:03 --> 00:19:04

I think we have to go deeper into

00:19:04 --> 00:19:05

westernism.

00:19:06 --> 00:19:06

Westernism

00:19:07 --> 00:19:09

is a you know, I'm not so so

00:19:09 --> 00:19:11

sure about white supremacy. I think, look, there

00:19:11 --> 00:19:14

is an umbrella of westernism which is has

00:19:14 --> 00:19:16

been in place for 4 and a half

00:19:16 --> 00:19:17

100 years.

00:19:17 --> 00:19:19

And part of that is white supremacy.

00:19:20 --> 00:19:23

Alright? But there but but the umbrella of

00:19:23 --> 00:19:26

this idea of we know what is best,

00:19:26 --> 00:19:28

and we're gonna take what we have and

00:19:28 --> 00:19:30

smash every culture until we, the small number,

00:19:30 --> 00:19:31

get it.

00:19:31 --> 00:19:33

And then you add that philosophy

00:19:34 --> 00:19:34

of nihilism,

00:19:35 --> 00:19:37

which which has been coming through Foucault

00:19:37 --> 00:19:38

and through other philosophers

00:19:39 --> 00:19:42

in the last 100, 150 years. Horrible, toxic,

00:19:43 --> 00:19:44

nothing means anything.

00:19:45 --> 00:19:48

The hope is, by the grace of Allah,

00:19:48 --> 00:19:50

this generation are finding a cause that matters.

00:19:51 --> 00:19:53

So I think do I think this is

00:19:53 --> 00:19:56

a turning point? Yes. But it's westernism we

00:19:56 --> 00:19:58

need to be looking at, not tinkering with

00:19:58 --> 00:19:59

a with a deliberately

00:20:00 --> 00:20:00

smashed

00:20:01 --> 00:20:02

system of politics.

00:20:03 --> 00:20:05

If you, if you had an audience and,

00:20:06 --> 00:20:08

you had a few minutes with the young

00:20:08 --> 00:20:08

people

00:20:09 --> 00:20:09

who are

00:20:10 --> 00:20:13

in Colombia or in Harvard or, you know,

00:20:13 --> 00:20:15

camping in UCL, for instance.

00:20:17 --> 00:20:19

What would be your message to them if

00:20:19 --> 00:20:22

you could, you know, give them something

00:20:22 --> 00:20:24

that would

00:20:24 --> 00:20:26

assert their fundamentals

00:20:27 --> 00:20:29

that led them to leave their classrooms,

00:20:29 --> 00:20:30

leave their books

00:20:31 --> 00:20:33

and such and their preparation for their exams

00:20:34 --> 00:20:37

and sits and raise the Palestinian flag

00:20:38 --> 00:20:39

and sort of

00:20:40 --> 00:20:42

refuse the accusations, the demonizations,

00:20:43 --> 00:20:43

the,

00:20:44 --> 00:20:46

you know, the the the charges that they

00:20:46 --> 00:20:47

are being,

00:20:47 --> 00:20:49

you know, anti Semitic, for instance, or the

00:20:49 --> 00:20:51

such. They are giving so much in order

00:20:51 --> 00:20:53

to be there to make that decision. I

00:20:53 --> 00:20:55

just wanna roll it back a bit to,

00:20:55 --> 00:20:57

and I will I will I will address

00:20:57 --> 00:20:58

that because it's a beautiful question. Okay. Let

00:20:58 --> 00:20:59

let's do that first.

00:21:00 --> 00:21:01

I would say solidarity

00:21:01 --> 00:21:02

is beautiful,

00:21:02 --> 00:21:04

but you can't lead it.

00:21:05 --> 00:21:07

You can't lead it because you're still in

00:21:07 --> 00:21:07

in a place

00:21:08 --> 00:21:10

of of relative luxury,

00:21:10 --> 00:21:12

and you have a different way of life.

00:21:12 --> 00:21:15

Are you ready for the Muslim women in

00:21:15 --> 00:21:17

hijab to say, I wanna be married, I

00:21:17 --> 00:21:19

want my children to be safe, and I

00:21:19 --> 00:21:21

want to worship Allah to Allah. Are you

00:21:21 --> 00:21:22

really in solidarity?

00:21:22 --> 00:21:24

I or are you

00:21:24 --> 00:21:25

at some point going to say this is

00:21:25 --> 00:21:28

the way you you should live and tell

00:21:28 --> 00:21:30

us how to live? That's what we need

00:21:30 --> 00:21:32

to be molding now is a shoulder to

00:21:32 --> 00:21:33

shoulder

00:21:33 --> 00:21:35

with the oppressed people leading.

00:21:36 --> 00:21:37

That's not easy

00:21:37 --> 00:21:39

for Westerners to listen to. We have to

00:21:39 --> 00:21:41

take them forward on that journey and say

00:21:41 --> 00:21:42

solidarity

00:21:42 --> 00:21:44

is what you're doing now. But it only

00:21:44 --> 00:21:46

continues if you listen to the to the

00:21:46 --> 00:21:47

people

00:21:47 --> 00:21:48

who

00:21:48 --> 00:21:50

who are having their rights,

00:21:50 --> 00:21:52

taken from them. So that's gonna be really

00:21:52 --> 00:21:54

interesting. And I remember

00:21:54 --> 00:21:55

when I went to,

00:21:56 --> 00:21:58

I was in Gaza in 2009

00:21:59 --> 00:22:01

after Operation Cast Lead. It seemed like it's

00:22:01 --> 00:22:03

now a kind of footprint of what was

00:22:03 --> 00:22:04

to follow,

00:22:04 --> 00:22:05

a horrible

00:22:05 --> 00:22:07

period of bombing,

00:22:07 --> 00:22:10

you know, mass civilian casualties, 2,000 on the

00:22:10 --> 00:22:13

on that, which seemed massive, subhanAllah.

00:22:13 --> 00:22:14

And a journalist,

00:22:16 --> 00:22:17

I wasn't Muslim at the time, he said,

00:22:17 --> 00:22:19

come and meet my wife. Now I was

00:22:19 --> 00:22:21

in solidarity. I put my life on the

00:22:21 --> 00:22:23

line. I'd gone on a flotilla to to

00:22:23 --> 00:22:26

Gaza. I was in it to win it.

00:22:26 --> 00:22:26

Right?

00:22:27 --> 00:22:27

But still,

00:22:28 --> 00:22:30

I came from the west. I had my

00:22:30 --> 00:22:32

ideals of what freedom looked like. And in

00:22:32 --> 00:22:33

my mind, I thought,

00:22:34 --> 00:22:35

she's probably gonna be really nice and really

00:22:35 --> 00:22:38

boring. Stay at home, mom, nothing to say.

00:22:38 --> 00:22:40

So I go to their apartment in Gaza

00:22:40 --> 00:22:40

City,

00:22:41 --> 00:22:43

and lo and behold, guess what? She serves

00:22:44 --> 00:22:45

a feast.

00:22:45 --> 00:22:47

I mean, I could not cook that if

00:22:47 --> 00:22:49

you gave me 10 days

00:22:49 --> 00:22:51

and a team of people with me, and

00:22:51 --> 00:22:54

this is something for a guest. And I'm

00:22:54 --> 00:22:55

looking going, well, you know, she can do

00:22:55 --> 00:22:57

that because she's a stay at home mom.

00:22:57 --> 00:22:59

You know, I'm brilliant. I've got my mind.

00:23:00 --> 00:23:02

I I I don't focus on cooking. We

00:23:02 --> 00:23:04

westerners, we we do something different. So I

00:23:04 --> 00:23:06

said to her after this amazing meal,

00:23:07 --> 00:23:07

you know,

00:23:08 --> 00:23:11

it can't be easy with your 11 children

00:23:11 --> 00:23:13

to to cook a a meal like this.

00:23:13 --> 00:23:14

I'm very grateful. It's so patronizing.

00:23:15 --> 00:23:17

And I remember she said, yes. It is,

00:23:17 --> 00:23:20

not easy, especially doing a PhD in further

00:23:20 --> 00:23:21

maths. I'm like,

00:23:22 --> 00:23:23

I was furious.

00:23:23 --> 00:23:26

I was furious inside. And then she proceeded

00:23:26 --> 00:23:27

to very politely mop the floor with me

00:23:27 --> 00:23:28

intellectually

00:23:28 --> 00:23:30

8 8 days till Sunday.

00:23:30 --> 00:23:32

And I that was a lesson I had

00:23:32 --> 00:23:35

to learn. You cannot bring your preconceptions of

00:23:35 --> 00:23:36

who, what, where

00:23:36 --> 00:23:38

with you. You have to be constantly letting

00:23:38 --> 00:23:40

go. And they're very brave.

00:23:40 --> 00:23:42

And we love these kids. Are you ready

00:23:42 --> 00:23:44

to let go of what you think the

00:23:44 --> 00:23:46

world is? And if you are, then then

00:23:46 --> 00:23:48

we can make a future together, inshallah.

00:23:51 --> 00:23:51

It's

00:23:52 --> 00:23:54

again, I come back to where

00:23:54 --> 00:23:57

where do you start? I mean, because you

00:23:57 --> 00:23:58

had this physical encounter.

00:23:59 --> 00:24:01

You had this face of it. You,

00:24:01 --> 00:24:02

you know, happen to

00:24:03 --> 00:24:04

go into this person's

00:24:06 --> 00:24:06

dominion,

00:24:07 --> 00:24:08

into their lives,

00:24:08 --> 00:24:09

See them firsthand.

00:24:10 --> 00:24:12

Not everyone not everyone around the world has

00:24:12 --> 00:24:14

that luxury. And especially now, I mean, come

00:24:14 --> 00:24:16

on. I mean, sometimes, you know, I I

00:24:16 --> 00:24:18

think we're so unfair. I mean,

00:24:19 --> 00:24:21

what does Gaza need to do more

00:24:22 --> 00:24:25

to educate us? What does it what do

00:24:25 --> 00:24:27

the people of Gaza need to give

00:24:27 --> 00:24:28

more

00:24:28 --> 00:24:29

in order to

00:24:29 --> 00:24:31

open our eyes? So painful, isn't it? When

00:24:31 --> 00:24:32

you when you see

00:24:33 --> 00:24:35

our beloved, brothers and sisters who have taken

00:24:35 --> 00:24:36

up the camera,

00:24:37 --> 00:24:38

maybe they were doing it before

00:24:38 --> 00:24:40

the genocide, but have been daily

00:24:42 --> 00:24:45

saying, I'm not gonna communicate with you anymore

00:24:45 --> 00:24:46

because you don't care.

00:24:47 --> 00:24:48

And and I'm gone. You won't see me

00:24:48 --> 00:24:51

again. And people are dropping off. And people

00:24:51 --> 00:24:52

are vanishing. And you don't know whether they're

00:24:52 --> 00:24:54

alive or they just don't wanna tell us

00:24:54 --> 00:24:56

their reality anymore. But your question was,

00:24:57 --> 00:24:58

you know, how do we communicate that? And

00:24:58 --> 00:25:00

it's a really good one.

00:25:00 --> 00:25:01

I

00:25:01 --> 00:25:02

when I was 16,

00:25:03 --> 00:25:05

I remember being on my college campus,

00:25:06 --> 00:25:08

and a speaker from the ANC came

00:25:08 --> 00:25:10

to teach us about apartheid.

00:25:11 --> 00:25:14

And and you can hear about apartheid

00:25:14 --> 00:25:15

from someone who

00:25:16 --> 00:25:18

you live beside every day and go to

00:25:18 --> 00:25:20

college with and even a professor. But when

00:25:20 --> 00:25:21

you have someone who's like, I saw this

00:25:21 --> 00:25:24

with my eyes and bring you into their

00:25:24 --> 00:25:27

reality and you are joining their struggle,

00:25:27 --> 00:25:29

that's far more powerful. So I think,

00:25:29 --> 00:25:32

the next the next stage is to equip

00:25:33 --> 00:25:34

and

00:25:34 --> 00:25:36

help the Palestinian voices

00:25:36 --> 00:25:38

to who are in English. This is very

00:25:38 --> 00:25:39

vital.

00:25:39 --> 00:25:42

Okay? The holocaust wouldn't have mattered if it

00:25:42 --> 00:25:44

is saying stayed in German and Yiddish.

00:25:44 --> 00:25:45

Right?

00:25:45 --> 00:25:47

English is is right now the language because

00:25:47 --> 00:25:49

because this is the the the global elite.

00:25:49 --> 00:25:51

Right? You've got to get your speakers lined

00:25:51 --> 00:25:53

in a row. They're gonna be winning women

00:25:53 --> 00:25:55

speakers. You've got to have your your people

00:25:55 --> 00:25:58

paying for their flights, making sure that they're

00:25:58 --> 00:25:58

they're

00:25:58 --> 00:26:01

they're organized and getting them to speak to

00:26:01 --> 00:26:02

as many people as possible. We want those

00:26:02 --> 00:26:05

voices. You and not me, not you. I

00:26:05 --> 00:26:07

should be redundant. I wanna be redundant in

00:26:07 --> 00:26:08

this.

00:26:08 --> 00:26:09

Write us out

00:26:10 --> 00:26:11

with the Palestinian

00:26:11 --> 00:26:11

voices.

00:26:12 --> 00:26:13

But again,

00:26:13 --> 00:26:16

one step ahead, the Zionists are like, we

00:26:16 --> 00:26:18

can't have them on campus because it's hate

00:26:18 --> 00:26:20

speech from the river to the sea. Even

00:26:21 --> 00:26:23

talking about Palestine, unless you say it doesn't

00:26:23 --> 00:26:25

exist, is hate speech.

00:26:25 --> 00:26:27

So I think the first battle is really

00:26:28 --> 00:26:29

to delineate

00:26:29 --> 00:26:32

American and British laws and European laws about

00:26:32 --> 00:26:34

free speech. I think that's actually

00:26:34 --> 00:26:36

the first quarter battle. Mhmm.

00:26:37 --> 00:26:37

I,

00:26:38 --> 00:26:39

I happen to stumble across,

00:26:42 --> 00:26:43

a video clip,

00:26:44 --> 00:26:46

where Mohammed al Kurd,

00:26:47 --> 00:26:48

from Jerusalem,

00:26:48 --> 00:26:50

where he addresses the camera.

00:26:52 --> 00:26:53

And

00:26:53 --> 00:26:56

he says something quite powerful, but something that

00:26:56 --> 00:26:57

is very, very nuanced.

00:26:58 --> 00:27:02

And he responds to the charges of either

00:27:02 --> 00:27:03

anti Semitism

00:27:03 --> 00:27:05

or the like or anti Jewish

00:27:06 --> 00:27:09

or Jewish hatred or or the like.

00:27:10 --> 00:27:11

And he says something

00:27:11 --> 00:27:12

which,

00:27:13 --> 00:27:15

you know, since then, I've been I've been

00:27:15 --> 00:27:16

thinking to myself,

00:27:17 --> 00:27:18

how can this be,

00:27:20 --> 00:27:21

how can this be articulated

00:27:23 --> 00:27:24

in a

00:27:24 --> 00:27:26

clear, in a nuanced,

00:27:27 --> 00:27:28

in a concise

00:27:29 --> 00:27:29

way

00:27:30 --> 00:27:31

to today's

00:27:31 --> 00:27:32

activists,

00:27:32 --> 00:27:35

but also to the general public who are

00:27:35 --> 00:27:35

still undecided.

00:27:38 --> 00:27:41

And, basically, what he says is, listen. The

00:27:41 --> 00:27:42

fact that my house

00:27:43 --> 00:27:44

was robbed

00:27:44 --> 00:27:45

by

00:27:46 --> 00:27:48

invaders and settlers who happened to be Jewish

00:27:48 --> 00:27:49

is not my fault.

00:27:50 --> 00:27:52

You can't accuse me of

00:27:52 --> 00:27:54

of of

00:27:54 --> 00:27:54

Jewish

00:27:55 --> 00:27:57

hatred when it was

00:27:58 --> 00:27:58

someone

00:27:59 --> 00:28:02

who happened to be Jewish, who happened to

00:28:02 --> 00:28:03

be carrying the Star of David,

00:28:04 --> 00:28:05

who killed my neighbors,

00:28:06 --> 00:28:09

who ransacked my land, and who are now

00:28:09 --> 00:28:12

committing the genocide in Israel. Stop asking me

00:28:12 --> 00:28:13

this.

00:28:13 --> 00:28:14

It's not my fault.

00:28:15 --> 00:28:17

Had it not been someone Jewish, I would

00:28:17 --> 00:28:19

have stood said the same stood the same.

00:28:19 --> 00:28:22

It just so happened that it was someone

00:28:22 --> 00:28:24

who happened to be Jew who

00:28:25 --> 00:28:25

was proud

00:28:26 --> 00:28:29

to use their Jewishness in order to justify

00:28:30 --> 00:28:32

the killing, the ransacking, the thieving,

00:28:33 --> 00:28:35

and the harassing. And still to this very

00:28:35 --> 00:28:36

day,

00:28:36 --> 00:28:39

I find that enormously powerful. It's been a

00:28:39 --> 00:28:42

very clever trick, hasn't it, to to say

00:28:42 --> 00:28:44

that on the one hand,

00:28:44 --> 00:28:46

the right wing, the settler colonial,

00:28:48 --> 00:28:51

mechanisms, they're so violent and so ready to

00:28:51 --> 00:28:53

hurt and maim are at the same time

00:28:53 --> 00:28:55

so fragile on the front line They're going

00:28:55 --> 00:28:58

like this. You stabbed me in the eye.

00:28:58 --> 00:29:00

You made me upset. You're you're wearing that

00:29:00 --> 00:29:03

kefir in the street, and I'm feeling triggered.

00:29:03 --> 00:29:04

Get a life.

00:29:04 --> 00:29:06

I really like

00:29:06 --> 00:29:09

what, and and applaud what is being said

00:29:09 --> 00:29:11

now. You know, you look stupid, right? This

00:29:11 --> 00:29:14

whole fake fragility thing, when behind the woman

00:29:14 --> 00:29:16

who falls to the ground and nothing's happened

00:29:16 --> 00:29:19

to her, our guys coming up and pushing

00:29:19 --> 00:29:21

our our sisters. There were and these are

00:29:21 --> 00:29:23

associate professors of universities.

00:29:24 --> 00:29:26

Did you see that? Jonathan, somebody who was

00:29:26 --> 00:29:28

in her face calling her the, you know,

00:29:28 --> 00:29:29

the b word. And

00:29:29 --> 00:29:32

no, we don't put up with it. You're

00:29:32 --> 00:29:32

lying,

00:29:32 --> 00:29:35

and you're whole, and you're violent,

00:29:35 --> 00:29:37

and we don't have to apologize for our

00:29:37 --> 00:29:38

stance.

00:29:39 --> 00:29:40

It's,

00:29:41 --> 00:29:43

yeah. I mean, the the fact that

00:29:45 --> 00:29:46

the fact that people

00:29:47 --> 00:29:48

have the gall,

00:29:50 --> 00:29:53

to say I'm offended by you raising the

00:29:53 --> 00:29:55

Palestinian flag when actually the

00:29:56 --> 00:29:59

the country or the state or the entity

00:29:59 --> 00:30:00

that you are defending

00:30:02 --> 00:30:04

is actively involved in committing a genocide.

00:30:05 --> 00:30:05

And yet

00:30:06 --> 00:30:08

I'm the one who should look after your

00:30:08 --> 00:30:09

feelings

00:30:09 --> 00:30:11

and not raise a flag or not chant

00:30:11 --> 00:30:13

from the river to the sea is And,

00:30:13 --> 00:30:15

Anas, there's a there's a deeper question here

00:30:15 --> 00:30:17

about who gets to be angry.

00:30:17 --> 00:30:18

Right?

00:30:18 --> 00:30:20

Why is it always

00:30:20 --> 00:30:24

that the oppressed non white person has to,

00:30:25 --> 00:30:25

you know,

00:30:26 --> 00:30:28

Appease. Try to appease and make a difference

00:30:28 --> 00:30:29

in in a certain way. So I'll give

00:30:29 --> 00:30:32

you an example. You can march along this

00:30:32 --> 00:30:33

street, but you put a tent there and

00:30:33 --> 00:30:36

you can't. You're allowed to say peace and

00:30:36 --> 00:30:38

love, but you can't say free Palestine. What

00:30:38 --> 00:30:40

as long as we are forced

00:30:40 --> 00:30:41

to protest

00:30:41 --> 00:30:42

in a mechanism

00:30:43 --> 00:30:44

that is shutting us down,

00:30:45 --> 00:30:46

then then we're not gonna make a difference.

00:30:46 --> 00:30:49

So I really applaud all of our student

00:30:49 --> 00:30:51

leaders who who are saying, we're gonna chant

00:30:51 --> 00:30:53

from the river to the sea, and that

00:30:53 --> 00:30:56

is actually not aggressive compared to anything that

00:30:56 --> 00:30:58

you're doing. I remember my husband said,

00:30:59 --> 00:31:01

that as a man from the Caribbean,

00:31:01 --> 00:31:02

his most disappointing

00:31:03 --> 00:31:05

moment in the whole of the Roots series,

00:31:06 --> 00:31:08

remember in the 19 seventies about the slave

00:31:08 --> 00:31:10

trade, was when Kunta Kinte,

00:31:10 --> 00:31:12

they finally caught what, you know, had a

00:31:12 --> 00:31:16

moment of retribution potential against the slave master.

00:31:16 --> 00:31:17

And he threw

00:31:18 --> 00:31:19

down, you know, the whip and ran away.

00:31:20 --> 00:31:21

And he said as a as a as

00:31:21 --> 00:31:23

a Black person, that made him feel sick

00:31:24 --> 00:31:26

because he saw in that, oh, that's how

00:31:26 --> 00:31:28

you sell, like, the roots story.

00:31:28 --> 00:31:30

You've gotta be nice in the end and

00:31:30 --> 00:31:33

play nicely with your oppressor, and we're gonna

00:31:33 --> 00:31:35

delineate how, how that looks like.

00:31:36 --> 00:31:37

Yeah. It's,

00:31:38 --> 00:31:41

I think it's, it needs a lot of,

00:31:43 --> 00:31:43

introspection.

00:31:43 --> 00:31:45

It needs a lot of

00:31:45 --> 00:31:49

examination as to how we even as as

00:31:49 --> 00:31:51

activists, as people who believe in the cause,

00:31:51 --> 00:31:53

with people who think that we stem

00:31:54 --> 00:31:55

from the right place

00:31:55 --> 00:31:57

and are saying the right things,

00:31:57 --> 00:32:00

I think much of our beliefs as well

00:32:00 --> 00:32:02

need need a lot of examples. Palestinians

00:32:03 --> 00:32:05

from the left position for decades,

00:32:05 --> 00:32:07

don't talk about your own,

00:32:08 --> 00:32:09

resistance

00:32:09 --> 00:32:11

has had is a shame on the movement.

00:32:12 --> 00:32:15

And And also, you know, one of the

00:32:15 --> 00:32:18

arguments continuously is and whilst I do not

00:32:18 --> 00:32:20

dispute for a single second

00:32:21 --> 00:32:22

the fact that,

00:32:23 --> 00:32:24

essentially, Palestine

00:32:25 --> 00:32:27

and, obviously, the case of Gaza

00:32:27 --> 00:32:29

is a humanitarian

00:32:29 --> 00:32:29

issue,

00:32:30 --> 00:32:33

But to take away and try to sanction

00:32:34 --> 00:32:37

the religious and belief elements within,

00:32:39 --> 00:32:41

I think is doing the whole cause a

00:32:41 --> 00:32:42

great disservice.

00:32:42 --> 00:32:44

Well, where where did that lead the Palestinians

00:32:45 --> 00:32:47

in the 19 eighties? It led them to

00:32:47 --> 00:32:50

the Oslo Accords. Thank you very, very much.

00:32:50 --> 00:32:51

We democratized.

00:32:51 --> 00:32:54

We we we dressed like you. We swallowed

00:32:54 --> 00:32:56

cover. But we, I feel Palestinian.

00:32:57 --> 00:32:57

The Palestinians

00:32:58 --> 00:33:00

said that they've done this and they've they've

00:33:00 --> 00:33:03

swallowed the narrative. And here's Yasser Arafat. Here

00:33:03 --> 00:33:06

we are. And you just destroy the land

00:33:06 --> 00:33:09

from thereon in. But in a way, you

00:33:09 --> 00:33:12

know, you destroy us from inside as Muslims.

00:33:12 --> 00:33:14

That's what I'm talking about here. I'm talking

00:33:14 --> 00:33:16

about this as an ummah subject as well.

00:33:17 --> 00:33:19

Because there like you say, there is definitely

00:33:19 --> 00:33:19

a move to

00:33:20 --> 00:33:23

you know, there are already people looking at

00:33:23 --> 00:33:23

what

00:33:24 --> 00:33:25

post

00:33:25 --> 00:33:26

genocide

00:33:26 --> 00:33:28

Palestine looks like. Today, Tulkarem

00:33:29 --> 00:33:30

has a huge invasion

00:33:31 --> 00:33:32

by the Zionists

00:33:33 --> 00:33:35

on all different levels, chewing up the streets,

00:33:35 --> 00:33:37

smashing the houses, killing the young.

00:33:38 --> 00:33:38

And

00:33:40 --> 00:33:43

once they're done with that and their dream

00:33:43 --> 00:33:45

is to to to push the Palestinians into

00:33:45 --> 00:33:46

an even smaller space,

00:33:47 --> 00:33:49

then the Palestinians will be told, now you

00:33:49 --> 00:33:51

can speak in this way and you can

00:33:51 --> 00:33:53

dress this way. And and you've lost Al

00:33:53 --> 00:33:55

Aqsa, but it didn't really matter because Islam

00:33:55 --> 00:33:58

is only beneath the the your question is

00:33:58 --> 00:33:59

one about land.

00:33:59 --> 00:34:01

They were there are outside forces who want

00:34:01 --> 00:34:04

this to be a flag waving moment

00:34:04 --> 00:34:06

because what has happened in the Arab world

00:34:06 --> 00:34:06

is

00:34:07 --> 00:34:08

ridiculous.

00:34:08 --> 00:34:11

Everybody behind their little flag, their little invented

00:34:11 --> 00:34:12

flag.

00:34:12 --> 00:34:14

So how old is your flag?

00:34:14 --> 00:34:16

52 years. Oh, congratulations.

00:34:17 --> 00:34:18

And I die for my country. It's like,

00:34:18 --> 00:34:22

oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. What does what I

00:34:22 --> 00:34:24

mean, since you you brought up the subject,

00:34:26 --> 00:34:28

I mean, what kind of impression does that

00:34:28 --> 00:34:30

leave with you when you

00:34:31 --> 00:34:33

see, you know, on one hand, we're looking

00:34:33 --> 00:34:36

at across America, across the UK, across many

00:34:36 --> 00:34:37

cities in Europe

00:34:37 --> 00:34:40

and how people, young and old, are responding

00:34:40 --> 00:34:42

to Gaza are defying. I mean, I was

00:34:42 --> 00:34:44

talking with a German with a friend from

00:34:44 --> 00:34:45

Germany the other day.

00:34:46 --> 00:34:48

And, I mean, Germany has been absolutely

00:34:49 --> 00:34:52

horrendous, I mean, and has brought back laws

00:34:52 --> 00:34:53

that have been

00:34:54 --> 00:34:55

absolutely,

00:34:55 --> 00:34:58

you know, in the echelons of history and

00:34:58 --> 00:34:58

totally

00:34:59 --> 00:34:59

draconian,

00:35:00 --> 00:35:01

brought them back

00:35:01 --> 00:35:03

particularly for the sake of the pro Palestine

00:35:04 --> 00:35:04

campaign

00:35:05 --> 00:35:08

and have gone full circle, apparently. I mean,

00:35:08 --> 00:35:10

they're now doing the very same things

00:35:10 --> 00:35:12

that they did as, you know, when the

00:35:12 --> 00:35:14

Nazis was was in charge, but now they're

00:35:14 --> 00:35:15

claiming that they're doing it in order to

00:35:15 --> 00:35:16

counter

00:35:16 --> 00:35:19

anti Semitism, but doing the very same things.

00:35:20 --> 00:35:22

And yet he tells me that there is

00:35:22 --> 00:35:24

not a day that goes by by without

00:35:25 --> 00:35:28

a demonstration with 1,000 upon 1,000, sometimes 100

00:35:28 --> 00:35:29

of 1,000 people. So are we not? I

00:35:29 --> 00:35:31

think the problem is we're not hearing the

00:35:31 --> 00:35:34

German voice. I I haven't heard many Germans

00:35:34 --> 00:35:34

interviewed

00:35:35 --> 00:35:37

to say what it's like under that. We

00:35:37 --> 00:35:39

know that there's this tier of this broken

00:35:39 --> 00:35:41

political system who are

00:35:41 --> 00:35:43

are selling, making money out of,

00:35:44 --> 00:35:47

the the the guns and, guns, bombs, whatever

00:35:47 --> 00:35:49

they sell to Israel. Right?

00:35:49 --> 00:35:51

But what are the people actually thinking about

00:35:51 --> 00:35:53

this, I wonder? I I don't actually don't

00:35:53 --> 00:35:55

know. I think, that would be an interesting

00:35:55 --> 00:35:58

discussion to have. But but, I mean, carrying

00:35:58 --> 00:35:59

on from my question, basically,

00:35:59 --> 00:36:00

you see this

00:36:01 --> 00:36:02

and people defying

00:36:03 --> 00:36:04

laws, defying threats,

00:36:05 --> 00:36:06

defying

00:36:06 --> 00:36:09

intimidation, actually, actually, actual intimidation.

00:36:10 --> 00:36:12

And then you look to the neighbouring countries,

00:36:12 --> 00:36:15

the Arab countries, the Muslim countries,

00:36:15 --> 00:36:17

and you see,

00:36:19 --> 00:36:21

I don't know whether it's it's paralysis,

00:36:22 --> 00:36:24

whether it's in diff I'm pretty sure that

00:36:24 --> 00:36:26

deep inside people feel, you know, just like

00:36:26 --> 00:36:29

ourselves. They're they're boiling inside. They're simmering. I

00:36:29 --> 00:36:31

mean, they're they're just ready to go and

00:36:31 --> 00:36:33

do whatever it takes in order to save

00:36:34 --> 00:36:35

Palestinian child with such.

00:36:36 --> 00:36:38

But the fact that, you know, on the

00:36:38 --> 00:36:40

face of it, you see virtually nothing apart

00:36:40 --> 00:36:42

from pockets. Can we give that old example,

00:36:42 --> 00:36:44

Annas, about the elephant?

00:36:44 --> 00:36:46

You get a baby elephant,

00:36:46 --> 00:36:47

and a circus

00:36:47 --> 00:36:50

ties a heavy chain around its front leg

00:36:50 --> 00:36:52

for 6 months. And every time it pulls,

00:36:52 --> 00:36:54

they beat they they beat the baby elephant.

00:36:54 --> 00:36:56

When that elephant is big, they can have

00:36:56 --> 00:36:58

a piece of of of rope very light

00:36:59 --> 00:37:00

to a peg in the ground, and it

00:37:00 --> 00:37:02

won't resist anymore. So I think when we're

00:37:02 --> 00:37:04

talking about our brothers and sisters in in

00:37:04 --> 00:37:07

the Arab world, let's look back to uprisings

00:37:07 --> 00:37:08

and and,

00:37:09 --> 00:37:11

protests that have happened that I'm not even

00:37:11 --> 00:37:13

aware of in the last 70 years, because

00:37:13 --> 00:37:15

there was a huge passion for Palestine.

00:37:16 --> 00:37:18

And haven't they been beaten into submission?

00:37:19 --> 00:37:22

I was speaking to a Palestinian Jordanian sister,

00:37:23 --> 00:37:25

and she said, you know, my father fled

00:37:25 --> 00:37:26

the Nakba.

00:37:27 --> 00:37:27

And

00:37:28 --> 00:37:30

she's very disturbed right now because he will

00:37:30 --> 00:37:31

not even

00:37:32 --> 00:37:33

watch anything on Gaza.

00:37:34 --> 00:37:36

He won't watch it, and he's silent about

00:37:36 --> 00:37:39

it. What can you do? What can you

00:37:39 --> 00:37:41

do? And her theory, which is interesting, is

00:37:41 --> 00:37:42

that

00:37:42 --> 00:37:44

a lot of the Arab states were given

00:37:45 --> 00:37:46

Western money,

00:37:47 --> 00:37:49

Right? The gold and handcuffs that I spoke

00:37:49 --> 00:37:50

about at the beginning.

00:37:50 --> 00:37:52

Jordan was developed

00:37:53 --> 00:37:55

in the seventies, eighties, nineties by

00:37:56 --> 00:37:57

international aid.

00:37:57 --> 00:38:00

Right? And they all got kind of fat

00:38:00 --> 00:38:02

on the roasted calf and very comfortable with

00:38:02 --> 00:38:03

it and don't rock the boatism.

00:38:04 --> 00:38:06

Don't rock the boatism. And that doesn't work

00:38:06 --> 00:38:09

for somewhere like Egypt where there's mass poverty.

00:38:09 --> 00:38:10

But places

00:38:11 --> 00:38:13

the places in the gulf region,

00:38:13 --> 00:38:16

we're doing okay. Don't don't mess with us.

00:38:17 --> 00:38:19

The prophet, peace be upon him,

00:38:19 --> 00:38:22

was once asked, what do you fear for

00:38:22 --> 00:38:22

your nation?

00:38:24 --> 00:38:26

And at that point, he didn't say famine,

00:38:26 --> 00:38:27

hunger,

00:38:27 --> 00:38:28

enslavement,

00:38:29 --> 00:38:30

poverty.

00:38:30 --> 00:38:31

He said wealth.

00:38:33 --> 00:38:36

Wealth. And, of course, you know, we become

00:38:36 --> 00:38:38

wealthy. We fear death. We wanna hold on

00:38:38 --> 00:38:40

to it, And we and we lose our

00:38:40 --> 00:38:41

focus. We lose who we are, and we

00:38:41 --> 00:38:42

lose our

00:38:43 --> 00:38:43

our empathy.

00:38:44 --> 00:38:45

Yeah.

00:38:46 --> 00:38:49

You're you've been involved with the attempts

00:38:50 --> 00:38:50

to,

00:38:51 --> 00:38:53

sail a boat that would break the siege

00:38:53 --> 00:38:54

on Gaza and that would deliver aid.

00:38:56 --> 00:38:58

You worked on this for months on

00:38:58 --> 00:39:00

end, and you saw

00:39:00 --> 00:39:03

activists and supporters come from all corners of

00:39:03 --> 00:39:05

the of the world in order to take

00:39:05 --> 00:39:05

part

00:39:06 --> 00:39:08

in this freedom for flotilla.

00:39:09 --> 00:39:11

It might not have transpired.

00:39:12 --> 00:39:14

It might not have happened for a variety

00:39:14 --> 00:39:16

of reasons, many of which political. But,

00:39:19 --> 00:39:21

what was your impression? What what what did

00:39:21 --> 00:39:21

you think

00:39:22 --> 00:39:24

as, you know, you were making those calls?

00:39:24 --> 00:39:26

You were liaising. You were organizing. You were

00:39:26 --> 00:39:28

speaking to the media about this. Let me,

00:39:28 --> 00:39:30

first of all, not accept the premise of

00:39:30 --> 00:39:33

that question. I came on quite late because

00:39:33 --> 00:39:35

I offered some support with social media. So

00:39:35 --> 00:39:37

there are campaigns called the free,

00:39:38 --> 00:39:40

the freedom, the coalition,

00:39:40 --> 00:39:43

And there's EHA that the major charity in

00:39:43 --> 00:39:45

Turkey. Turkey. Yeah. And their and their their

00:39:45 --> 00:39:46

their strategy groups, I wasn't a part of

00:39:46 --> 00:39:48

that. But I have been,

00:39:49 --> 00:39:50

you know you know,

00:39:50 --> 00:39:51

a part of it for the last 6

00:39:51 --> 00:39:52

weeks, we can say.

00:39:53 --> 00:39:54

And I have met the people

00:39:55 --> 00:39:55

who

00:39:56 --> 00:39:56

were

00:39:57 --> 00:39:59

willing to put their lives on the line.

00:39:59 --> 00:40:00

Because

00:40:00 --> 00:40:01

every of the 250

00:40:02 --> 00:40:04

plus people who came from around the world

00:40:04 --> 00:40:07

to take these boats to Gaza full of

00:40:07 --> 00:40:07

8

00:40:07 --> 00:40:10

knew that there was a high chance

00:40:11 --> 00:40:12

of Israeli attack.

00:40:13 --> 00:40:15

And I think what we're seeing

00:40:15 --> 00:40:17

spread now, and let's talk about the young

00:40:17 --> 00:40:20

again on these campuses, is not on my

00:40:20 --> 00:40:20

watch.

00:40:21 --> 00:40:22

When you ask,

00:40:23 --> 00:40:23

the

00:40:24 --> 00:40:25

elderly lady,

00:40:25 --> 00:40:27

who can barely remember her own name, to

00:40:27 --> 00:40:29

be quite honest. You know, I met her

00:40:29 --> 00:40:30

3 times a day. She said, what's your

00:40:30 --> 00:40:32

name, honey? And it's like, doesn't matter.

00:40:33 --> 00:40:34

She's like,

00:40:35 --> 00:40:37

you know, she doesn't wanna live and die

00:40:37 --> 00:40:40

with this happening in her lifespan without having

00:40:40 --> 00:40:40

done something.

00:40:41 --> 00:40:43

And I think that

00:40:43 --> 00:40:45

is the most moving thing of all. And

00:40:45 --> 00:40:46

on the flotilla this time,

00:40:47 --> 00:40:48

there were a great deal of Muslims, by

00:40:48 --> 00:40:51

the way, a great deal of Arab Muslims.

00:40:51 --> 00:40:53

Jordanians were well represented.

00:40:53 --> 00:40:55

I think there were some Egyptians.

00:40:55 --> 00:40:58

So that young voice is coming through

00:40:58 --> 00:41:00

from from from our And let's not forget

00:41:00 --> 00:41:01

the last time

00:41:02 --> 00:41:04

this happened, there was the case of the

00:41:04 --> 00:41:07

Mavi Marmara where people were actually killed.

00:41:07 --> 00:41:08

9 people,

00:41:09 --> 00:41:11

I think 9 people were killed.

00:41:11 --> 00:41:13

Dozens injured by gunfire.

00:41:14 --> 00:41:14

The,

00:41:14 --> 00:41:15

Israelis

00:41:15 --> 00:41:18

opening fire from lines from the helicopter.

00:41:19 --> 00:41:20

I've spoken to survivors

00:41:21 --> 00:41:23

who were standing behind the cameraman who's filming

00:41:23 --> 00:41:25

it. They shot through the camera lens

00:41:25 --> 00:41:27

and took out the back of his head.

00:41:27 --> 00:41:29

The and and a list of people that

00:41:29 --> 00:41:31

they wanted to deliberately

00:41:31 --> 00:41:34

assassinate on board, which which included some some

00:41:34 --> 00:41:36

some shi'uk, subhanAllah,

00:41:36 --> 00:41:38

that were found later on. And

00:41:39 --> 00:41:40

yet people are still willing to do that.

00:41:40 --> 00:41:42

And I think if we can

00:41:43 --> 00:41:44

really latch onto the fact

00:41:46 --> 00:41:47

that hearts move people

00:41:48 --> 00:41:50

and the intellect must follow the heart and

00:41:50 --> 00:41:52

that we must be brave hearts,

00:41:53 --> 00:41:53

We're

00:41:54 --> 00:41:55

all going to have to be brave in

00:41:55 --> 00:41:57

some way. You know, there was

00:41:57 --> 00:41:59

when you first met me

00:41:59 --> 00:42:00

15 years ago,

00:42:01 --> 00:42:02

I was considered

00:42:02 --> 00:42:05

with, along with many other people, a rogue

00:42:05 --> 00:42:07

voice. Like, I had people say to me

00:42:07 --> 00:42:08

afterwards, we didn't wanna speak to you because,

00:42:08 --> 00:42:11

you know, the whole Palestine thing, the rocking

00:42:11 --> 00:42:12

the boat thing.

00:42:12 --> 00:42:14

And, you know, we were pushed,

00:42:15 --> 00:42:15

marginalized,

00:42:16 --> 00:42:17

deplatformed

00:42:18 --> 00:42:19

by the Muslim community.

00:42:19 --> 00:42:22

You know, we need to sort ourselves out.

00:42:22 --> 00:42:24

In the UK right now,

00:42:24 --> 00:42:26

there have been a number of,

00:42:26 --> 00:42:28

new, new councilors

00:42:28 --> 00:42:29

voted in

00:42:30 --> 00:42:30

on,

00:42:31 --> 00:42:32

Gaza genocide.

00:42:33 --> 00:42:34

What does it mean in the UK platform?

00:42:35 --> 00:42:38

I pray to Allah that they don't

00:42:38 --> 00:42:40

negotiate their beliefs in order to stay in

00:42:40 --> 00:42:42

power. They don't become

00:42:43 --> 00:42:43

a point of,

00:42:44 --> 00:42:46

negotiation or compromise.

00:42:47 --> 00:42:48

Yeah, that's that's a very

00:42:48 --> 00:42:51

good point. And to be perfectly honest, when,

00:42:51 --> 00:42:53

you know, I'm part of the Muslim vote

00:42:53 --> 00:42:56

as well as various other campaigns in order

00:42:56 --> 00:42:58

to get the vote organized.

00:42:59 --> 00:43:00

And I have to say that the

00:43:01 --> 00:43:03

the the the question that comes up and

00:43:03 --> 00:43:05

we're confronted with more than any other probably

00:43:05 --> 00:43:06

is

00:43:07 --> 00:43:08

what guarantee is that,

00:43:09 --> 00:43:11

once this person who is, you know, saying

00:43:11 --> 00:43:13

all the right things right now

00:43:13 --> 00:43:14

might not

00:43:14 --> 00:43:17

change their position once they're in office. So

00:43:17 --> 00:43:19

the position then, and you and you'll know

00:43:19 --> 00:43:21

this better than me, is if you flood

00:43:21 --> 00:43:22

the market,

00:43:22 --> 00:43:24

then a percentage of them are gonna get

00:43:24 --> 00:43:25

through. Right?

00:43:25 --> 00:43:28

Hopefully, that that they won't be alone. They

00:43:28 --> 00:43:30

won't feel isolated. They won't feel like they're

00:43:30 --> 00:43:31

surrounded and

00:43:39 --> 00:43:41

silent in government and then have to leave

00:43:41 --> 00:43:43

office in order to say what they actually

00:43:43 --> 00:43:45

think. Say it while you're there.

00:43:45 --> 00:43:47

Say it from day 1. By the way,

00:43:47 --> 00:43:48

that's not only,

00:43:48 --> 00:43:50

Muslim politicians. Apparently,

00:43:51 --> 00:43:53

most politicians who leave office or are on

00:43:53 --> 00:43:55

the brink of leaving office, all of a

00:43:55 --> 00:43:58

sudden have this, you know, kind of revelation

00:43:59 --> 00:44:02

and start speaking and saying all the brilliant

00:44:02 --> 00:44:03

things. You know, I've had journalists,

00:44:04 --> 00:44:05

say that

00:44:05 --> 00:44:08

in BBC news offices, journalists, young young journalists

00:44:09 --> 00:44:09

are crying

00:44:10 --> 00:44:12

at news bulletins like, I'm writing this awful

00:44:12 --> 00:44:13

script.

00:44:13 --> 00:44:16

You know, where is the backup for them?

00:44:16 --> 00:44:17

Where is it gonna be their outlet?

00:44:18 --> 00:44:20

Are we creating structures that are going to

00:44:20 --> 00:44:21

say, we can bring you

00:44:22 --> 00:44:24

to this? Where are our young voices going

00:44:24 --> 00:44:26

to go? And I think that's that's where

00:44:26 --> 00:44:27

we need to be looking.

00:44:28 --> 00:44:29

What do you think

00:44:31 --> 00:44:32

British Muslims

00:44:33 --> 00:44:35

ought to be concerned with right now? I

00:44:35 --> 00:44:37

mean, obviously, we have Gaza. We have Palestine.

00:44:37 --> 00:44:38

But what

00:44:38 --> 00:44:41

should they be thinking of? Because let me

00:44:41 --> 00:44:42

let me,

00:44:42 --> 00:44:43

paint a picture,

00:44:44 --> 00:44:46

within my circle of friends, which I'm talking

00:44:46 --> 00:44:49

about a couple of dozen very close friends.

00:44:49 --> 00:44:51

We confide in each other and as such.

00:44:52 --> 00:44:53

There is

00:44:53 --> 00:44:55

quite a percentage of them

00:44:56 --> 00:44:57

who I would suggest

00:44:57 --> 00:44:58

are

00:44:59 --> 00:45:01

virtually tired of everything, and they're looking for

00:45:01 --> 00:45:03

someone somewhere else

00:45:04 --> 00:45:06

to go, to migrate, to raise their kids,

00:45:06 --> 00:45:07

to have families

00:45:08 --> 00:45:10

and to sort of escape from,

00:45:11 --> 00:45:12

you know, we used to talk about the

00:45:12 --> 00:45:13

rat race,

00:45:14 --> 00:45:16

but now it's more than that. It's about,

00:45:16 --> 00:45:18

you know, whether you talk about personal

00:45:19 --> 00:45:21

issues and the cost of living crisis, which

00:45:21 --> 00:45:22

is

00:45:22 --> 00:45:24

which is, you know, debilitating.

00:45:25 --> 00:45:26

It's it's it's that bad.

00:45:27 --> 00:45:28

As well as the narrative,

00:45:29 --> 00:45:32

the escalation and the rise in Islamophobia,

00:45:34 --> 00:45:35

as well as

00:45:35 --> 00:45:38

and I, you know, I I'm I'm

00:45:38 --> 00:45:40

I'm sorry to say this, but whilst Britain

00:45:40 --> 00:45:41

remains

00:45:42 --> 00:45:44

far way ahead of France and Germany and

00:45:44 --> 00:45:46

the likes in terms of, you know, the

00:45:46 --> 00:45:49

the the the scope of freedom and the

00:45:49 --> 00:45:50

ability to to be active and to say

00:45:50 --> 00:45:51

what you think,

00:45:52 --> 00:45:53

But

00:45:53 --> 00:45:56

comparing to where we were 10, 15, 20

00:45:56 --> 00:45:57

years ago,

00:45:57 --> 00:46:00

it is nigh on, you know, an

00:46:00 --> 00:46:02

autocracy almost. I mean, the kind of laws

00:46:02 --> 00:46:04

that are being brought in. I mean, we

00:46:04 --> 00:46:06

can mention the Rwanda law, but, you know,

00:46:06 --> 00:46:09

they have the borders and nationalities law, which

00:46:09 --> 00:46:11

is just there lingering in the in the

00:46:11 --> 00:46:13

sidelines just waiting to to to be at

00:46:13 --> 00:46:14

the fore.

00:46:14 --> 00:46:17

The ban on protests, the curtailing of freedoms

00:46:18 --> 00:46:20

of of speech. What's happening to people who

00:46:20 --> 00:46:21

dare

00:46:21 --> 00:46:23

speak their minds and what's happening in their

00:46:23 --> 00:46:26

jobs, you know, for their future careers, for

00:46:26 --> 00:46:27

their pensions, and the like.

00:46:28 --> 00:46:30

People, you know, are now I have to

00:46:30 --> 00:46:33

say, they're getting tired of where we are.

00:46:33 --> 00:46:35

But at the same time, when they ask

00:46:35 --> 00:46:37

me, you know, because I travel around, so

00:46:37 --> 00:46:38

they come to me and say, you know,

00:46:38 --> 00:46:40

and as well, where do you think we

00:46:40 --> 00:46:42

should go? Where do you think we should

00:46:42 --> 00:46:44

go? What's the good I you know, I'm

00:46:44 --> 00:46:46

I'll be honest. I wouldn't dare,

00:46:47 --> 00:46:49

you know, give an answer.

00:46:49 --> 00:46:52

And and that sort of fills me with

00:46:52 --> 00:46:56

with sadness first, but also trepidation because

00:46:56 --> 00:46:57

I am a believer

00:46:57 --> 00:47:00

that we still have a job to do

00:47:01 --> 00:47:03

and that we can

00:47:04 --> 00:47:05

do that job. That job is not an

00:47:05 --> 00:47:08

impossible mission. It's a doable job.

00:47:08 --> 00:47:10

But we just need to,

00:47:10 --> 00:47:13

you know, organize, open our minds, open our

00:47:13 --> 00:47:15

contact books, get in touch with people and

00:47:15 --> 00:47:17

have those discussions. Do you believe

00:47:18 --> 00:47:18

that

00:47:19 --> 00:47:21

Islam and attachment to the masjid

00:47:22 --> 00:47:24

is going to be a focal point from

00:47:24 --> 00:47:26

which beauty can flourish in the United Kingdom?

00:47:26 --> 00:47:28

And should that be the starting point?

00:47:30 --> 00:47:31

I would like to think so, and I

00:47:31 --> 00:47:32

think,

00:47:33 --> 00:47:35

it is possible,

00:47:35 --> 00:47:36

but

00:47:36 --> 00:47:38

I don't think we're there yet. I don't

00:47:38 --> 00:47:39

think we're there yet.

00:47:39 --> 00:47:41

So what comes to fill that gap? Business?

00:47:42 --> 00:47:44

That that's that's a very good question. So

00:47:44 --> 00:47:46

is it? That's a very, very good question.

00:47:46 --> 00:47:47

And that's something that

00:47:48 --> 00:47:50

I think more and more people are not

00:47:50 --> 00:47:53

only Muslims by the way, are sort of,

00:47:53 --> 00:47:56

asking about. And that's how many, by the

00:47:56 --> 00:47:58

way, are finding Islam and where we're seeing

00:47:58 --> 00:48:01

all those clips on TikTok from across the

00:48:01 --> 00:48:03

Atlantic, you know, in America, Canada, as well

00:48:03 --> 00:48:05

as across Europe where people are saying, you

00:48:05 --> 00:48:07

know, hang on. You know, what's happening in

00:48:07 --> 00:48:08

Gaza has

00:48:08 --> 00:48:11

made me ask questions that I never thought

00:48:11 --> 00:48:12

of posing before.

00:48:13 --> 00:48:15

And all of a sudden I'm reading these

00:48:15 --> 00:48:17

verses of the Quran. I'm finding,

00:48:17 --> 00:48:20

you know, these answers which I'm deeply impacted

00:48:20 --> 00:48:22

by in such. I think

00:48:23 --> 00:48:24

that that is

00:48:25 --> 00:48:26

a potential. That's

00:48:27 --> 00:48:28

Look. Can we live simpler?

00:48:29 --> 00:48:31

Can we live simpler in the UK? Can

00:48:31 --> 00:48:32

we live communal?

00:48:32 --> 00:48:35

Can we opt out? We have so much

00:48:35 --> 00:48:36

money. We're one of the we're we're we've

00:48:36 --> 00:48:39

got the poorest community in the UK and

00:48:39 --> 00:48:40

some of the richest,

00:48:40 --> 00:48:41

and that's a disconnect.

00:48:42 --> 00:48:44

And I and and and we we we

00:48:44 --> 00:48:46

need the money from the richest to really

00:48:46 --> 00:48:47

go into projects

00:48:48 --> 00:48:50

that are going to, at first and foremost,

00:48:51 --> 00:48:52

build up the solidarity

00:48:53 --> 00:48:54

with their faith,

00:48:54 --> 00:48:55

with goodness,

00:48:56 --> 00:48:59

with with sharing what we have with those

00:48:59 --> 00:49:00

in need. I'll give you an example.

00:49:01 --> 00:49:02

There was,

00:49:02 --> 00:49:04

10 years ago, a masjid

00:49:04 --> 00:49:05

who,

00:49:05 --> 00:49:07

was asked by young women, why are you

00:49:07 --> 00:49:10

only having a crush for Muslims? We we've

00:49:10 --> 00:49:12

got nothing here. You know? And they started

00:49:12 --> 00:49:14

to invite them in and gradually. And and

00:49:14 --> 00:49:15

that's a beautiful thing.

00:49:16 --> 00:49:17

Other masjids,

00:49:17 --> 00:49:19

offering free free health checkups

00:49:20 --> 00:49:21

because you have to wait 2 or 3

00:49:21 --> 00:49:23

weeks and you might not see the same

00:49:23 --> 00:49:26

doctor. You know, we have these, a great

00:49:26 --> 00:49:27

level of professionalism

00:49:27 --> 00:49:28

in the UK.

00:49:29 --> 00:49:31

Can we focus on that? Yes. Go focus

00:49:31 --> 00:49:33

on the politics and it will or it

00:49:33 --> 00:49:34

won't work. But in the meantime,

00:49:35 --> 00:49:36

our criteria as mopmanin,

00:49:37 --> 00:49:38

as believers,

00:49:38 --> 00:49:40

is to serve our community. And when we

00:49:40 --> 00:49:42

start doing that, that's where we're gonna make

00:49:42 --> 00:49:44

the difference. But that comes through us knowing

00:49:44 --> 00:49:46

the deen. And if we're still churning out

00:49:46 --> 00:49:49

kids with expensive degrees and no deen,

00:49:49 --> 00:49:50

well.

00:49:51 --> 00:49:54

1 of my local mosques actually has has

00:49:54 --> 00:49:56

the kind of facilities and space to,

00:49:57 --> 00:49:58

to arrange

00:49:58 --> 00:50:01

open, you know, open mornings whereby

00:50:02 --> 00:50:03

pensioners come in for a cup of tea

00:50:03 --> 00:50:05

and a biscuit. Just have a chat, you

00:50:05 --> 00:50:07

know, just meet with each other. People who

00:50:07 --> 00:50:10

come across living on their own, meeting with

00:50:10 --> 00:50:12

virtually no one throughout days and days attend,

00:50:12 --> 00:50:14

you know, they come to the mosque every

00:50:14 --> 00:50:16

Tuesday morning, I think, you know, for a

00:50:16 --> 00:50:18

couple of hours where they meet with others,

00:50:18 --> 00:50:19

Zalinga, and

00:50:19 --> 00:50:21

they happen to be not Muslims. And then

00:50:21 --> 00:50:23

you know they disperse once they hear the

00:50:23 --> 00:50:25

adhan. And now they know. They know what

00:50:25 --> 00:50:27

the adhan is about. And they know what

00:50:27 --> 00:50:30

it means. And they are asking well, you

00:50:30 --> 00:50:31

know. Where was the chap who had such

00:50:31 --> 00:50:33

a beautiful voice, you know, from last week

00:50:33 --> 00:50:35

and the such. So in a way,

00:50:36 --> 00:50:36

mosques

00:50:36 --> 00:50:38

have that kind of potential

00:50:39 --> 00:50:41

and capacity. But

00:50:42 --> 00:50:42

what's what's

00:50:43 --> 00:50:43

I

00:50:44 --> 00:50:47

I personally always talk about in in whenever

00:50:47 --> 00:50:49

I'm talking or lecturing such, especially to a

00:50:49 --> 00:50:50

Muslim audience, is that

00:50:51 --> 00:50:52

we need to,

00:50:54 --> 00:50:56

we need to understand, I believe, the teachings

00:50:56 --> 00:50:59

of the prophet far better in terms of

00:50:59 --> 00:51:01

I mean, one of the things I constantly

00:51:01 --> 00:51:03

say and and I'm not being, you know,

00:51:03 --> 00:51:05

a a a jurist or opposing as a

00:51:05 --> 00:51:07

jurist. What I, you know, when I,

00:51:08 --> 00:51:10

hear the word the the concept of the

00:51:10 --> 00:51:11

Ummah,

00:51:11 --> 00:51:12

I personally

00:51:12 --> 00:51:16

expand that to include everyone everyone because they

00:51:16 --> 00:51:19

are, you know, the people whom amongst whom

00:51:19 --> 00:51:19

we live.

00:51:20 --> 00:51:23

Now calling upon them, inviting them, you know,

00:51:23 --> 00:51:26

providing for them, being at their service and

00:51:26 --> 00:51:28

as such, I think is is the way

00:51:28 --> 00:51:30

in which to introduce Islam. We we have

00:51:30 --> 00:51:32

we have we have the human community and

00:51:32 --> 00:51:34

we have the Muslim community. And the Muslim

00:51:34 --> 00:51:36

community right now needs to catch the human

00:51:36 --> 00:51:37

community.

00:51:37 --> 00:51:40

We've always needed to do that. But now

00:51:40 --> 00:51:40

with this,

00:51:41 --> 00:51:43

we circle back around to nigh nihilism.

00:51:44 --> 00:51:46

Kids cutting themselves at 13 because they don't

00:51:46 --> 00:51:48

know why they're alive. I was speaking to

00:51:48 --> 00:51:50

a a psychologist in Turkey,

00:51:51 --> 00:51:53

a child psychologist. I said, what are you

00:51:53 --> 00:51:55

seeing? This is really interesting. Tell me. She

00:51:55 --> 00:51:57

said, the big thing that she's hearing is,

00:51:57 --> 00:51:59

I don't know why I'm alive,

00:51:59 --> 00:52:01

and therefore, I don't wanna live.

00:52:02 --> 00:52:03

Wow. We are there to catch that. And

00:52:03 --> 00:52:06

you made me tear up then because, you

00:52:06 --> 00:52:07

know, Europe has an aging population.

00:52:08 --> 00:52:10

Be nice to Muslims. We'll be looking after

00:52:10 --> 00:52:12

you in your old age. And, alhamdulillah, we're

00:52:12 --> 00:52:15

equipped to do that. I know a wonderful

00:52:15 --> 00:52:17

convert sister. She's English as can be,

00:52:18 --> 00:52:20

and she she's converted to Islam, and she

00:52:20 --> 00:52:22

looks after people at the end of life

00:52:23 --> 00:52:24

with such care.

00:52:24 --> 00:52:26

And but but you're not allowed to speak

00:52:26 --> 00:52:27

to them about, do you want me to

00:52:27 --> 00:52:29

speak to you about God? Would you like

00:52:29 --> 00:52:31

that? You can't even and and

00:52:32 --> 00:52:34

we just need to be there to catch

00:52:34 --> 00:52:35

the elderly and help them. And I was

00:52:35 --> 00:52:37

thinking about my grandmother who was,

00:52:38 --> 00:52:40

well, I forgive her, a real racist.

00:52:41 --> 00:52:42

And I thought she lived in Wembley. And

00:52:42 --> 00:52:45

as Wembley was changing, I thought if that

00:52:45 --> 00:52:47

old white lady is walking along a street

00:52:48 --> 00:52:50

and there's all our Asian and Arab brothers

00:52:50 --> 00:52:52

and sisters there, are they gonna help her?

00:52:52 --> 00:52:54

Or are they gonna stick to their own?

00:52:55 --> 00:52:57

That's when we're not doing our job. That's

00:52:57 --> 00:53:00

when everybody has a right to resent us.

00:53:00 --> 00:53:01

Yeah. Yeah.

00:53:02 --> 00:53:03

Okay. I mean,

00:53:04 --> 00:53:05

you've now

00:53:07 --> 00:53:10

seen matters, let's just say, from various perspectives.

00:53:11 --> 00:53:12

So I would suggest that you have,

00:53:15 --> 00:53:16

you have an impression

00:53:16 --> 00:53:17

that

00:53:17 --> 00:53:20

isn't available to most people because you've seen

00:53:20 --> 00:53:22

things from outside of Islam,

00:53:22 --> 00:53:25

from inside of Islam. You've encountered

00:53:26 --> 00:53:29

projects that are of a humanitarian nature, a

00:53:29 --> 00:53:31

political nature and the such.

00:53:33 --> 00:53:36

And you've also commented on what is so

00:53:36 --> 00:53:36

wrong

00:53:37 --> 00:53:38

with

00:53:38 --> 00:53:41

with with the West, probably the world also.

00:53:41 --> 00:53:43

I mean, I don't know about China and

00:53:43 --> 00:53:45

Russia and such. I'm not an expert.

00:53:45 --> 00:53:46

But,

00:53:46 --> 00:53:48

the Western world today about

00:53:49 --> 00:53:50

do you foresee

00:53:51 --> 00:53:53

because of Gaza, because of this reaction

00:53:54 --> 00:53:55

to Gaza, do you foresee

00:53:56 --> 00:53:59

a change of a major nature? Do we

00:53:59 --> 00:54:01

are we to expect,

00:54:02 --> 00:54:02

a transformative

00:54:03 --> 00:54:06

moment anywhere in the near future? I mean,

00:54:06 --> 00:54:08

let me let me tell you what many

00:54:08 --> 00:54:10

young people tell me. They say what's the

00:54:10 --> 00:54:12

use of the United Nations. They tell me

00:54:12 --> 00:54:12

about,

00:54:13 --> 00:54:16

okay. So the ICJ case presented by South

00:54:16 --> 00:54:19

Africa was absolutely fantastic to to watch. It

00:54:19 --> 00:54:20

was a brilliant spectacle.

00:54:20 --> 00:54:24

Spectacle of democracy. But, but okay. So what's

00:54:24 --> 00:54:25

gonna happen next?

00:54:26 --> 00:54:29

All of this, yet the mainstream media

00:54:29 --> 00:54:32

still fails to grasp the very basics

00:54:33 --> 00:54:35

of what is truly human. I mean, we

00:54:35 --> 00:54:38

you know, in media, we always tell young

00:54:38 --> 00:54:41

budding media professionals that it's the human angle.

00:54:41 --> 00:54:43

It's the human angle. Okay. How

00:54:45 --> 00:54:47

much more human can you be,

00:54:48 --> 00:54:50

you know, when when when seeing what's happening

00:54:50 --> 00:54:52

in Gaza? Yet,

00:54:53 --> 00:54:55

you know, the failure to grasp this, to

00:54:55 --> 00:54:55

understand,

00:54:56 --> 00:54:57

and to reflect

00:54:57 --> 00:54:58

is staggering.

00:55:00 --> 00:55:02

But people are are on board. I mean,

00:55:02 --> 00:55:05

they they get this. They understand this. They're

00:55:05 --> 00:55:07

having the discussions amongst themselves.

00:55:07 --> 00:55:09

Anas, here's the thing.

00:55:11 --> 00:55:12

Gaza

00:55:13 --> 00:55:14

is a cipher

00:55:15 --> 00:55:17

for the confusion in the world right now.

00:55:18 --> 00:55:18

And

00:55:19 --> 00:55:19

Americans

00:55:20 --> 00:55:21

have had a veil ripped

00:55:22 --> 00:55:25

off them. They've been shaken from the reverie

00:55:25 --> 00:55:27

of junk food

00:55:27 --> 00:55:29

and junk telly and junk lives

00:55:30 --> 00:55:32

to look and really consider

00:55:32 --> 00:55:33

why are we here?

00:55:34 --> 00:55:36

What is is there a purpose? These people

00:55:36 --> 00:55:38

have a purpose. Stay put.

00:55:38 --> 00:55:39

They have a purpose.

00:55:40 --> 00:55:43

Worship Allah. They have a purpose. Look after

00:55:43 --> 00:55:43

each other.

00:55:44 --> 00:55:45

Am I doing that?

00:55:46 --> 00:55:47

And I think that is the revolution that

00:55:47 --> 00:55:50

is happening, the self reflection revolution,

00:55:51 --> 00:55:53

but in light of doing things for other

00:55:53 --> 00:55:54

people.

00:55:54 --> 00:55:56

Because this narcissistic

00:55:57 --> 00:55:59

decade that we've had, there's a great documentary.

00:56:00 --> 00:56:02

Everybody please watch this called The Century of

00:56:02 --> 00:56:03

the Self. Don't know if you've watched it

00:56:03 --> 00:56:04

yet by Adam Curtis. I heard it. I

00:56:04 --> 00:56:07

heard of it. Yeah. Genius. Right? We have

00:56:07 --> 00:56:09

been convinced to look into ourselves. And once

00:56:09 --> 00:56:11

I perfect myself, I'm gonna

00:56:12 --> 00:56:14

be the right person to be around. And

00:56:14 --> 00:56:15

in the meantime, you do nothing.

00:56:16 --> 00:56:18

Well, I think that's that's been taken away.

00:56:18 --> 00:56:20

And I think the big outcome is going,

00:56:20 --> 00:56:22

we're in a fork in the road. I

00:56:22 --> 00:56:23

can't say what the outcome is.

00:56:23 --> 00:56:25

Are we going towards the end of the

00:56:25 --> 00:56:27

time? Times and in our in our tradition

00:56:27 --> 00:56:28

and our understanding,

00:56:29 --> 00:56:30

this is going towards the Dajjal and the

00:56:30 --> 00:56:33

preparation for that You Rabb, in which case

00:56:33 --> 00:56:34

this fitna is small.

00:56:35 --> 00:56:38

Or are we another chance for humanity to

00:56:38 --> 00:56:40

build something before that ultimately comes?

00:56:43 --> 00:56:45

Thank you, Lauren. That was fantastic.

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