Lauren Booth – Western Students derail Zionist Dystopia

Lauren Booth
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AI: Summary ©

The speaker discusses the ongoing discussion of the "monster" and "monster" narrative, as well as the use of TikTok and Instagram to promote anti-cibile and anti-cibile groups. They emphasize the need for political engagement and cooperation in addressing issues such as racism and the rise of white supremacy, as well as the importance of education and empowerment of the American public. They also touch on the negative impact of the current political climate on people, particularly on their ability to express themselves and their values. The speaker suggests that there is a need for strong political stance and better understanding of the teachings of the prophet Muhammad, as well as for people to be present to catch the emotional and political nature of the situation.

AI: Summary ©

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			Gaza is a cipher for the confusion in
		
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			the world right now. Americans
		
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			have had a veil ripped
		
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			off them. They've been shaken from the reverie
		
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			of junk food and junk telly and junk
		
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			lives
		
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			to look and really consider
		
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			why are we here?
		
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			There's no question that,
		
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			the impact
		
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			of Gaza
		
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			has touched on virtually every corner of of
		
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			the world and,
		
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			every segment of almost every society. I mean,
		
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			we're talking about Muslims, but also non Muslims.
		
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			We're talking about
		
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			leftists and Jews, and we're talking about mothers
		
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			and
		
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			grand grandparents
		
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			and young and the such.
		
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			And the kind of,
		
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			of of reaction
		
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			to the genocide over the course of the
		
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			past 7 months
		
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			has been absolutely amazing. But that
		
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			impact has not only touched on people,
		
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			but it has definitely
		
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			impacted on,
		
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			public opinion, on societies. People all of a
		
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			sudden
		
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			and I have to say I'm someone who's
		
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			been in this particular fight now for decades.
		
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			Probably for the very first time,
		
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			I'm noticing this kind of change in media
		
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			narrative
		
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			and media coverage,
		
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			because of the kind of commentators that are
		
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			coming on and the things that are that
		
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			that they are saying,
		
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			how has has all of this seen
		
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			from
		
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			your your point of view? How how has
		
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			it looked? What what's what's your impression of
		
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			all of this, especially when you look back
		
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			at your homeland
		
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			and the kind of reaction there and,
		
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			you know, what's happening on the on the
		
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			level of media, politics, everything, society. There's two
		
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			things here, isn't there? There are the guests
		
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			that are coming on to the mainstream
		
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			and are saying extraordinary
		
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			things that you go, oh, you can't say
		
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			that in the UK, but now you can,
		
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			which are truths,
		
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			which are self evident truths using the word
		
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			genocide,
		
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			talking about mass murder, talking about the occupation
		
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			as a settler colonial occupation,
		
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			moving the parameters of the debate. But then
		
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			there's something else.
		
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			Underneath that is a refusal
		
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			by Sky News and BBC
		
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			to change their way of thinking,
		
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			and they're looking really out of step. So
		
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			I'll give you an example. A couple of
		
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			days ago,
		
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			there was a Sky News presenter
		
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			at one of the,
		
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			occupation
		
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			of campus movements in the states. I don't
		
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			can't remember which one. And she said, they're
		
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			chanting anti Semitic things here, and you can
		
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			hear them going, we're not moving. We're not
		
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			you can hear it. Kind of it's a
		
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			bit fuzzy. And she's like, yes. I can't
		
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			understand what it is, but it's clearly anti
		
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			Semitic.
		
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			And you're like, never. I mean, that's gotta
		
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			be a meme. That's gotta be if there
		
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			is a moment
		
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			in media history that represents the now, it's
		
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			that
		
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			false framing continuing
		
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			and making,
		
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			you know, our main our main street colleagues
		
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			look stupid.
		
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			You know, the the press conference that was
		
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			delivered by Netanyahu
		
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			a few days ago, you know, sort of
		
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			lambasting
		
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			the student movements across America, claiming that they
		
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			were calling for the death
		
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			for Jews when there were
		
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			hundreds
		
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			of camps
		
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			erected by Jews
		
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			against Zionism and against Israel and against the
		
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			genocide,
		
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			proudly standing in the front lines of all
		
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			of this,
		
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			it was almost
		
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			farcical had it not been so tragic. I
		
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			know it absolutely is farcical. And you see
		
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			now,
		
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			because everybody has a camera phone,
		
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			that when people try to fake an attack,
		
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			it's really not coming across.
		
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			The the the the young woman who said
		
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			they stabbed me in the eye when they
		
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			just walked past and did that.
		
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			You know, how ridiculous that is.
		
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			3, 2, 3, 5 years ago, that there
		
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			wouldn't have been the counternarrative.
		
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			The problem is that she can say that
		
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			on the Piers Morgan show. Piers Morgan will
		
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			continue to repeat it. And so will the
		
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			mainstream media until it's a girl was hospitalized.
		
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			Are you happy with this? And you say
		
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			it didn't happen. They're like, it did happen.
		
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			And so we're we're kind of post truth.
		
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			Yeah. We are post truth. You've got Netanyahu
		
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			sitting in a studio going, I can't believe
		
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			that us, the most moral people on earth
		
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			with the best army, are being accused of
		
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			terrible things. It's like
		
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			and so
		
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			how do we and how do our coming
		
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			generation
		
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			and those who are awakened to this reality
		
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			cope with that dystopia?
		
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			That's the ongoing question. How do any of
		
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			us cope
		
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			when they will lie?
		
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			But the refreshing thing is that people are
		
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			seeing through that, and they're seeing throughout almost
		
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			instantaneously.
		
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			I mean, for instance, that press conference, Netanyahu,
		
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			claiming that there were cause for death
		
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			of Jews and, death to America. I mean,
		
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			no one was was saying that.
		
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			And then people were responding with images of,
		
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			you know, people erecting medical tents and, you
		
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			know,
		
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			erecting medical tents and, you know, the tents
		
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			where people can have discussions on various issues
		
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			and and crashes for children. And
		
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			and and and
		
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			this generation, and I experienced this from my
		
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			own children as well as from those I
		
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			see,
		
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			they're extremely nuanced in terms of how to
		
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			react, how to fact check. You know, that
		
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			term that we we all
		
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			all of a sudden had when Trump came
		
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			into presidency a few years ago,
		
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			but now
		
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			the young are actually doing that. They are
		
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			fact checking for themselves. They do it. And
		
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			and you're correct in terms of the BBC
		
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			and Sky and, and CNN and the like.
		
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			They're so out of step
		
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			that people are switching off, and they're turning
		
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			to new forms of information.
		
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			And the young particularly are immediately getting to
		
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			the heart of the matter, to the truth
		
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			they're finding out for themselves. They're getting to
		
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			the source of what's happening,
		
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			and
		
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			they're relaying it in such a creative
		
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			fashion.
		
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			So this begs the question,
		
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			is it that modern technology was which was
		
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			brought about by the system
		
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			that I label often as being so corrupt,
		
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			you know, capitalism and the like and materialism
		
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			and consumerism that it's, you know, thrust down
		
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			our throats.
		
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			Is it that this has found,
		
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			you know, that particular way to find out
		
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			truth from falsehood?
		
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			So listen. The whole but the social media,
		
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			you know, on the ground personal
		
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			reportage
		
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			that has come through the last 10 years
		
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			and 5 years really may given us access.
		
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			I mean, Gaza was cut off. They said
		
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			that, you know, Netanyahu
		
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			and his goons still think we cut out
		
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			Jazira and nobody will see. Of course, that
		
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			is a horror.
		
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			And that always pre pre precedes a horror,
		
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			but it's not gonna do it because people
		
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			find ways around it. But here's the interesting
		
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			thing and here's what we should be aware
		
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			of, and I hope really clever people are
		
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			working on this in this coming generation.
		
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			They will stop TikTok,
		
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			and they do stop you on Meta,
		
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			and they do blind us,
		
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			and they do promote certain narratives. And the
		
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			majority of Americans are still buying that narrative
		
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			because that's what reaches them.
		
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			So in this
		
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			fog of social media war, are there I
		
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			pray that there are really smart people who
		
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			are going, we've we're already 2 years into
		
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			the alternative.
		
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			But who will buy into the alternative? If
		
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			we don't own the mainstream, how do we
		
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			get the message across? So we're almost kind
		
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			of coming to
		
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			the end of communication
		
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			on TikTok and Instagram.
		
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			What next? Yeah. I mean, and the question
		
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			what next is the question that everyone is
		
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			asking about
		
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			because we've been through so many
		
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			phases, I would say, or events,
		
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			most of which unfortunately have been tragic
		
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			and devastating,
		
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			where we thought that these were going to
		
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			be the transformative
		
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			events, but then they sort of
		
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			George Floyd. For instance. I mean,
		
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			when that happened,
		
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			I mean, the whole world was up in
		
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			arms. All of a sudden, statues of slave
		
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			masters were being brought down
		
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			everywhere in France, in Germany, in Britain, in
		
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			America.
		
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			And then it sort of fizzled out a
		
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			little bit. So a couple of things on
		
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			on that because it does relate to the
		
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			Palestinian struggle. So, Alhamdulillah, I've been invited to
		
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			Doha to speak at
		
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			a female Palestinian conference
		
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			and to workshop ideas on moving forward
		
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			in collaboration
		
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			with the Western
		
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			interest that's coming through these university campuses.
		
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			And we have to look at the paradigms
		
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			that already exist. George Floyd seemed to be
		
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			this changing moment,
		
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			but then collapsed.
		
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			Well, I have a theory about that, which
		
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			is,
		
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			not my own theory. It it is out
		
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			there that
		
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			the George Floyd
		
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			Black Lives Matter movement was already corrupted from
		
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			within
		
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			because it was primarily an LGBTQ
		
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			movement.
		
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			And you could say that a section of
		
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			that movement who were highly paid disliked the
		
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			black man as much as the police force.
		
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			So you have got a break there. You've
		
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			got
		
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			people saying, Save this group in society, but
		
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			not them.
		
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			Right? And it's that all genocides,
		
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			hinge upon
		
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			separating the men from the women and the
		
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			children.
		
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			And so we're seeing this. Let's take it
		
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			back to Gaza. In Rafa, you've got these
		
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			checkpoints now. We'll let the women and children
		
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			through. We'll do horrible things to most of
		
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			them, but some will get through. But the
		
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			men, You Rabbi Allamina, they're not human beings.
		
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			We're being asked by these movements continually to
		
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			separate the men as if they're they're subhuman
		
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			and dangerous.
		
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			And that that's an issue for, for our
		
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			communities going forward. So when I speak to
		
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			my Muslim sisters in the Palestinian movement,
		
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			I'm like, be be aware of the golden
		
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			handcuffs
		
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			of western liberalism.
		
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			Because, you know, if we if once the
		
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			killing
		
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			actually stops and Israel has a number in
		
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			mind for mass murder and then they'll go,
		
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			we're done here,
		
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			Uzibele,
		
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			Then there will come people coming in and
		
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			saying, hey. We love your women's empowerment group.
		
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			Let's do this work together. We'll give you
		
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			20,000,000. It's from this wonderful NGO.
		
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			And in 5 years, there'll be no hijab,
		
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			no face, and no memory of Palestine, and
		
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			it'll all be coexistence and da da da
		
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			da. So we've gotta be careful of that.
		
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			We have to be so strong in our
		
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			own narrative. And I think I get the
		
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			sense that a lot of the youngsters
		
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			from UCL,
		
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			from Goldsmiths,
		
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			from,
		
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			you know, all of the Columbia,
		
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			because of the George Floyd movement,
		
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			they actually are awake to needing somebody else's
		
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			narrative to be alive
		
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			and to allowing that. So, yes, it wasn't
		
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			a success in that laws didn't change. Not
		
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			one life has been noticeably
		
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			noticeably saved, unfortunately, on the streets of America.
		
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			Right? Nobody's got wealthier. No rep repayment has
		
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			been made.
		
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			But those kids were still impacted enough, inshallah,
		
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			to accept another person's narrative
		
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			as gold and worth protecting. Is it is
		
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			it also
		
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			fair to argue that all of these events
		
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			that I alluded to
		
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			for the past, let's say, 25 years,
		
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			they have sort of played an incremental role,
		
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			maybe, you know, step by step in order
		
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			to for us to arrive at this particular
		
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			moment where this is this this there is
		
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			this mass explosion of emotions as well as
		
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			convictions as well
		
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			as a search into the fundamental
		
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			ideas or so called values
		
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			of the fathers of the, you know, of
		
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			the of the bastions of of democracy and
		
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			human rights of the past 50 years or
		
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			so. Is it is it fair to say
		
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			that they have played that role? I mean,
		
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			for instance, I go back
		
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			to the anti war movement that, started in
		
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			2001, 2002, 2000 and 2, 2000 and 2,000
		
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			I'm glad you brought that up. I'm glad
		
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			you brought that up because I don't I
		
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			don't at the moment know where I stand
		
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			on protests. On the one
		
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			hand, this wonderful dynamic energy brings people together.
		
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			On the other, it's 1,000,000 of hours that
		
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			should be that could be, not should, but
		
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			could it be spent somewhere else? Isn't this
		
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			controlled descent? And the minute it's not controlled,
		
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			oh, you can march a 1000000 people down
		
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			here, but don't put a tent up there.
		
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			We'll beat you and take you. Doesn't that
		
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			tell us that that the parrot control paradigm
		
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			is kind of okay with protests? However,
		
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			I'm now gonna undo that. And I'm gonna
		
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			say,
		
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			in 2001
		
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			2003, sorry, when millions of us took to
		
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			the streets against the Iraq cataclysm,
		
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			put in by the the the British prime
		
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			minister at the time
		
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			and,
		
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			enacted shock and awe, all of that. Your
		
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			brother-in-law. Yeah. Tony Blair,
		
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			that we felt
		
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			disappointed, horrified as things unrolled. And we're like,
		
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			well, that didn't work. If you if 2,000,000
		
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			people on the streets can't do anything, what's
		
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			the point? Where's the democracy? But
		
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			6 years later,
		
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			that same prime minister had to leave a
		
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			little bit earlier than they wanted.
		
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			And the Labour Party had to kind of
		
00:13:28 --> 00:13:28
			maneuver
		
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			itself and change its its outlook because of
		
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			that. Because we because they they just we
		
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			disperse, but we didn't forget.
		
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			So I don't know. It's it's slow change.
		
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			It's agonizing change.
		
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			And you and you have to watch people
		
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			die and and be in pain in the
		
00:13:43 --> 00:13:44
			midst of it.
		
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			But in a way,
		
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			I mean, whilst the devastation of Gaza is
		
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			immeasurable
		
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			and it's extremely
		
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			probably impossible to quantify.
		
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			Mean, we talk we continue to talk about
		
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			these tens of thousands killed, tens of thousands,
		
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			injured, and 1,000 upon 1,000 under the rubble
		
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			still.
		
00:14:05 --> 00:14:06
			But it's not
		
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			a numbers game. It's
		
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			about the devastation of so many lives, of
		
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			so many dreams, of so many potentials, of
		
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			so many aspirations.
		
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			It's about
		
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			the devastation
		
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			of the the fundamental
		
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			values, which
		
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			which the western world particularly
		
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			held so high
		
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			for since the, you know, the 2nd world
		
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			war. And for which
		
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			the wars in Afghanistan were fought. The wars
		
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			in Iraq were fought. So many wars. So
		
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			many conflicts around the world. That be it.
		
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			And we don't believe don't believe don't believe
		
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			they were fought. Well, that was why people
		
00:14:43 --> 00:14:45
			backed them because they claimed
		
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			that it was for human right. It was
		
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			for the liberation of women. The very same
		
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			soldiers who are now arresting young
		
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			girls across American campuses. Them out of hijab.
		
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			Forcing them out of hijab
		
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			and treating them in the most brutal ways.
		
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			The very same. But it was only ever
		
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			a veneer. So what's interesting is is that
		
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			veneer a harder cell now? Is it more
		
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			fragile than it's ever been? Is it the
		
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			pecking of a bird at the shell of
		
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			an egg that and something is about to
		
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			emerge? You can't interfere with that process. It
		
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			has to be peck, peck, peck, and take
		
00:15:17 --> 00:15:18
			that amount of time. Maybe.
		
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			Inshallah, God God willing. What's,
		
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			what's your impression as to the
		
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			the political discourse,
		
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			the kind of argument
		
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			that we need to use this moment in
		
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			order to impact the political class,
		
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			to tell
		
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			them that we don't want
		
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			this anymore. We want something else.
		
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			What do you think of this? You're not
		
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			gonna like this. I don't believe in politics.
		
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			I don't believe in any of it.
		
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			You don't believe I don't believe I don't
		
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			believe in this class of politicians
		
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			as having any morality. Something has gone badly
		
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			wrong with the human being, and it's nihilism.
		
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			And it is a a lack of faith.
		
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			It's a lack of belief in God.
		
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			And these these, I'm sorry, they are godless,
		
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			monetized,
		
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			robotized
		
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			human beings
		
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			who you can't reach. I mean, how it's
		
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			almost
		
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			it's akin to to a physical pain
		
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			to watch a girl stand up at a
		
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			major talk of Hillary Clinton and say, children
		
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			are dying in Gaza. My family just got
		
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			killed. And she's like, can you get her
		
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			out of here, please? And you're like, oh
		
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			god. There are demons walking amongst us.
		
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			How do how do we reach those people?
		
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			They don't want us to reach them. They'll
		
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			just build walls
		
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			and, and put police in the way. It's
		
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			almost isn't it almost a reaching a just
		
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			write them off and do something different?
		
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			I have to examine this one. No. No.
		
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			No. I mean I just don't believe that
		
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			they have any ethics. I don't believe there's
		
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			an ethical system. You you have a point,
		
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			but
		
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			my investigation, if you wish, will
		
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			depart from the point as to
		
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			well,
		
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			in light of the kind of reality that
		
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			we have. Okay. So the reality is solid.
		
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			Yeah. Reality is polluted on every single level.
		
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			I'm with you. You know, I
		
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			think that, the,
		
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			you know, the new liberal,
		
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			ideology that's painted everything,
		
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			that brought us this
		
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			that had the facade of democracy but now
		
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			bit by bit is being revealed as
		
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			something akin to the kind of brutal dictatorships
		
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			that we find across the Arab world
		
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			only in a nicer garb, in a suit
		
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			and tie, in a, you know, kind of
		
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			neat cutlery sort of put in a French
		
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			etiquette point of view, but is now being
		
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			revealed by the people who are trying to
		
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			change that kind of system. Is it a
		
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			bit like the end of The Wizard of
		
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			Oz? Right? A bit. Where where Dorothy's standing
		
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			there in this big voice, I will do
		
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			this. And she goes behind. There's a little
		
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			man going, hey. Give me a minute. And
		
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			there's behind them and then it turns out
		
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			to be nothing whatsoever.
		
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			Is this a bit of this? And the
		
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			question is okay. So
		
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			how do we start
		
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			to,
		
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			to change all of this? How do we
		
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			begin
		
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			to address these issues? How to how do
		
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			we get back
		
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			on the right track, on the track towards
		
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			building something else? Now,
		
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			you and I are both Muslims. We have
		
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			our fundamental beliefs in that, you know, the
		
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			entire universe is focused and the focal point
		
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			is
		
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			Allah. We we all know that.
		
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			But the fact is that the majority of
		
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			people aren't Muslims, and they do not depart
		
00:18:35 --> 00:18:37
			from that same point. Well, now you've raised
		
00:18:37 --> 00:18:39
			it. Okay. That's that's that's problematic.
		
00:18:40 --> 00:18:42
			And that's problematic. Why? Because that void has
		
00:18:42 --> 00:18:45
			been filled by nihilism. And nihilism is a
		
00:18:45 --> 00:18:46
			structural belief where
		
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			nothing exists, nothing matters, and that leads to
		
00:18:50 --> 00:18:51
			depression, psychosis,
		
00:18:52 --> 00:18:54
			and a very dark gloomy way of looking
		
00:18:54 --> 00:18:56
			at, let me just get what is here
		
00:18:56 --> 00:18:58
			now. So when I'm talking about, I don't
		
00:18:58 --> 00:19:00
			believe that the political process
		
00:19:01 --> 00:19:02
			can work as it stands,
		
00:19:03 --> 00:19:04
			I think we have to go deeper into
		
00:19:04 --> 00:19:05
			westernism.
		
00:19:06 --> 00:19:06
			Westernism
		
00:19:07 --> 00:19:09
			is a you know, I'm not so so
		
00:19:09 --> 00:19:11
			sure about white supremacy. I think, look, there
		
00:19:11 --> 00:19:14
			is an umbrella of westernism which is has
		
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			been in place for 4 and a half
		
00:19:16 --> 00:19:17
			100 years.
		
00:19:17 --> 00:19:19
			And part of that is white supremacy.
		
00:19:20 --> 00:19:23
			Alright? But there but but the umbrella of
		
00:19:23 --> 00:19:26
			this idea of we know what is best,
		
00:19:26 --> 00:19:28
			and we're gonna take what we have and
		
00:19:28 --> 00:19:30
			smash every culture until we, the small number,
		
00:19:30 --> 00:19:31
			get it.
		
00:19:31 --> 00:19:33
			And then you add that philosophy
		
00:19:34 --> 00:19:34
			of nihilism,
		
00:19:35 --> 00:19:37
			which which has been coming through Foucault
		
00:19:37 --> 00:19:38
			and through other philosophers
		
00:19:39 --> 00:19:42
			in the last 100, 150 years. Horrible, toxic,
		
00:19:43 --> 00:19:44
			nothing means anything.
		
00:19:45 --> 00:19:48
			The hope is, by the grace of Allah,
		
00:19:48 --> 00:19:50
			this generation are finding a cause that matters.
		
00:19:51 --> 00:19:53
			So I think do I think this is
		
00:19:53 --> 00:19:56
			a turning point? Yes. But it's westernism we
		
00:19:56 --> 00:19:58
			need to be looking at, not tinkering with
		
00:19:58 --> 00:19:59
			a with a deliberately
		
00:20:00 --> 00:20:00
			smashed
		
00:20:01 --> 00:20:02
			system of politics.
		
00:20:03 --> 00:20:05
			If you, if you had an audience and,
		
00:20:06 --> 00:20:08
			you had a few minutes with the young
		
00:20:08 --> 00:20:08
			people
		
00:20:09 --> 00:20:09
			who are
		
00:20:10 --> 00:20:13
			in Colombia or in Harvard or, you know,
		
00:20:13 --> 00:20:15
			camping in UCL, for instance.
		
00:20:17 --> 00:20:19
			What would be your message to them if
		
00:20:19 --> 00:20:22
			you could, you know, give them something
		
00:20:22 --> 00:20:24
			that would
		
00:20:24 --> 00:20:26
			assert their fundamentals
		
00:20:27 --> 00:20:29
			that led them to leave their classrooms,
		
00:20:29 --> 00:20:30
			leave their books
		
00:20:31 --> 00:20:33
			and such and their preparation for their exams
		
00:20:34 --> 00:20:37
			and sits and raise the Palestinian flag
		
00:20:38 --> 00:20:39
			and sort of
		
00:20:40 --> 00:20:42
			refuse the accusations, the demonizations,
		
00:20:43 --> 00:20:43
			the,
		
00:20:44 --> 00:20:46
			you know, the the the charges that they
		
00:20:46 --> 00:20:47
			are being,
		
00:20:47 --> 00:20:49
			you know, anti Semitic, for instance, or the
		
00:20:49 --> 00:20:51
			such. They are giving so much in order
		
00:20:51 --> 00:20:53
			to be there to make that decision. I
		
00:20:53 --> 00:20:55
			just wanna roll it back a bit to,
		
00:20:55 --> 00:20:57
			and I will I will I will address
		
00:20:57 --> 00:20:58
			that because it's a beautiful question. Okay. Let
		
00:20:58 --> 00:20:59
			let's do that first.
		
00:21:00 --> 00:21:01
			I would say solidarity
		
00:21:01 --> 00:21:02
			is beautiful,
		
00:21:02 --> 00:21:04
			but you can't lead it.
		
00:21:05 --> 00:21:07
			You can't lead it because you're still in
		
00:21:07 --> 00:21:07
			in a place
		
00:21:08 --> 00:21:10
			of of relative luxury,
		
00:21:10 --> 00:21:12
			and you have a different way of life.
		
00:21:12 --> 00:21:15
			Are you ready for the Muslim women in
		
00:21:15 --> 00:21:17
			hijab to say, I wanna be married, I
		
00:21:17 --> 00:21:19
			want my children to be safe, and I
		
00:21:19 --> 00:21:21
			want to worship Allah to Allah. Are you
		
00:21:21 --> 00:21:22
			really in solidarity?
		
00:21:22 --> 00:21:24
			I or are you
		
00:21:24 --> 00:21:25
			at some point going to say this is
		
00:21:25 --> 00:21:28
			the way you you should live and tell
		
00:21:28 --> 00:21:30
			us how to live? That's what we need
		
00:21:30 --> 00:21:32
			to be molding now is a shoulder to
		
00:21:32 --> 00:21:33
			shoulder
		
00:21:33 --> 00:21:35
			with the oppressed people leading.
		
00:21:36 --> 00:21:37
			That's not easy
		
00:21:37 --> 00:21:39
			for Westerners to listen to. We have to
		
00:21:39 --> 00:21:41
			take them forward on that journey and say
		
00:21:41 --> 00:21:42
			solidarity
		
00:21:42 --> 00:21:44
			is what you're doing now. But it only
		
00:21:44 --> 00:21:46
			continues if you listen to the to the
		
00:21:46 --> 00:21:47
			people
		
00:21:47 --> 00:21:48
			who
		
00:21:48 --> 00:21:50
			who are having their rights,
		
00:21:50 --> 00:21:52
			taken from them. So that's gonna be really
		
00:21:52 --> 00:21:54
			interesting. And I remember
		
00:21:54 --> 00:21:55
			when I went to,
		
00:21:56 --> 00:21:58
			I was in Gaza in 2009
		
00:21:59 --> 00:22:01
			after Operation Cast Lead. It seemed like it's
		
00:22:01 --> 00:22:03
			now a kind of footprint of what was
		
00:22:03 --> 00:22:04
			to follow,
		
00:22:04 --> 00:22:05
			a horrible
		
00:22:05 --> 00:22:07
			period of bombing,
		
00:22:07 --> 00:22:10
			you know, mass civilian casualties, 2,000 on the
		
00:22:10 --> 00:22:13
			on that, which seemed massive, subhanAllah.
		
00:22:13 --> 00:22:14
			And a journalist,
		
00:22:16 --> 00:22:17
			I wasn't Muslim at the time, he said,
		
00:22:17 --> 00:22:19
			come and meet my wife. Now I was
		
00:22:19 --> 00:22:21
			in solidarity. I put my life on the
		
00:22:21 --> 00:22:23
			line. I'd gone on a flotilla to to
		
00:22:23 --> 00:22:26
			Gaza. I was in it to win it.
		
00:22:26 --> 00:22:26
			Right?
		
00:22:27 --> 00:22:27
			But still,
		
00:22:28 --> 00:22:30
			I came from the west. I had my
		
00:22:30 --> 00:22:32
			ideals of what freedom looked like. And in
		
00:22:32 --> 00:22:33
			my mind, I thought,
		
00:22:34 --> 00:22:35
			she's probably gonna be really nice and really
		
00:22:35 --> 00:22:38
			boring. Stay at home, mom, nothing to say.
		
00:22:38 --> 00:22:40
			So I go to their apartment in Gaza
		
00:22:40 --> 00:22:40
			City,
		
00:22:41 --> 00:22:43
			and lo and behold, guess what? She serves
		
00:22:44 --> 00:22:45
			a feast.
		
00:22:45 --> 00:22:47
			I mean, I could not cook that if
		
00:22:47 --> 00:22:49
			you gave me 10 days
		
00:22:49 --> 00:22:51
			and a team of people with me, and
		
00:22:51 --> 00:22:54
			this is something for a guest. And I'm
		
00:22:54 --> 00:22:55
			looking going, well, you know, she can do
		
00:22:55 --> 00:22:57
			that because she's a stay at home mom.
		
00:22:57 --> 00:22:59
			You know, I'm brilliant. I've got my mind.
		
00:23:00 --> 00:23:02
			I I I don't focus on cooking. We
		
00:23:02 --> 00:23:04
			westerners, we we do something different. So I
		
00:23:04 --> 00:23:06
			said to her after this amazing meal,
		
00:23:07 --> 00:23:07
			you know,
		
00:23:08 --> 00:23:11
			it can't be easy with your 11 children
		
00:23:11 --> 00:23:13
			to to cook a a meal like this.
		
00:23:13 --> 00:23:14
			I'm very grateful. It's so patronizing.
		
00:23:15 --> 00:23:17
			And I remember she said, yes. It is,
		
00:23:17 --> 00:23:20
			not easy, especially doing a PhD in further
		
00:23:20 --> 00:23:21
			maths. I'm like,
		
00:23:22 --> 00:23:23
			I was furious.
		
00:23:23 --> 00:23:26
			I was furious inside. And then she proceeded
		
00:23:26 --> 00:23:27
			to very politely mop the floor with me
		
00:23:27 --> 00:23:28
			intellectually
		
00:23:28 --> 00:23:30
			8 8 days till Sunday.
		
00:23:30 --> 00:23:32
			And I that was a lesson I had
		
00:23:32 --> 00:23:35
			to learn. You cannot bring your preconceptions of
		
00:23:35 --> 00:23:36
			who, what, where
		
00:23:36 --> 00:23:38
			with you. You have to be constantly letting
		
00:23:38 --> 00:23:40
			go. And they're very brave.
		
00:23:40 --> 00:23:42
			And we love these kids. Are you ready
		
00:23:42 --> 00:23:44
			to let go of what you think the
		
00:23:44 --> 00:23:46
			world is? And if you are, then then
		
00:23:46 --> 00:23:48
			we can make a future together, inshallah.
		
00:23:51 --> 00:23:51
			It's
		
00:23:52 --> 00:23:54
			again, I come back to where
		
00:23:54 --> 00:23:57
			where do you start? I mean, because you
		
00:23:57 --> 00:23:58
			had this physical encounter.
		
00:23:59 --> 00:24:01
			You had this face of it. You,
		
00:24:01 --> 00:24:02
			you know, happen to
		
00:24:03 --> 00:24:04
			go into this person's
		
00:24:06 --> 00:24:06
			dominion,
		
00:24:07 --> 00:24:08
			into their lives,
		
00:24:08 --> 00:24:09
			See them firsthand.
		
00:24:10 --> 00:24:12
			Not everyone not everyone around the world has
		
00:24:12 --> 00:24:14
			that luxury. And especially now, I mean, come
		
00:24:14 --> 00:24:16
			on. I mean, sometimes, you know, I I
		
00:24:16 --> 00:24:18
			think we're so unfair. I mean,
		
00:24:19 --> 00:24:21
			what does Gaza need to do more
		
00:24:22 --> 00:24:25
			to educate us? What does it what do
		
00:24:25 --> 00:24:27
			the people of Gaza need to give
		
00:24:27 --> 00:24:28
			more
		
00:24:28 --> 00:24:29
			in order to
		
00:24:29 --> 00:24:31
			open our eyes? So painful, isn't it? When
		
00:24:31 --> 00:24:32
			you when you see
		
00:24:33 --> 00:24:35
			our beloved, brothers and sisters who have taken
		
00:24:35 --> 00:24:36
			up the camera,
		
00:24:37 --> 00:24:38
			maybe they were doing it before
		
00:24:38 --> 00:24:40
			the genocide, but have been daily
		
00:24:42 --> 00:24:45
			saying, I'm not gonna communicate with you anymore
		
00:24:45 --> 00:24:46
			because you don't care.
		
00:24:47 --> 00:24:48
			And and I'm gone. You won't see me
		
00:24:48 --> 00:24:51
			again. And people are dropping off. And people
		
00:24:51 --> 00:24:52
			are vanishing. And you don't know whether they're
		
00:24:52 --> 00:24:54
			alive or they just don't wanna tell us
		
00:24:54 --> 00:24:56
			their reality anymore. But your question was,
		
00:24:57 --> 00:24:58
			you know, how do we communicate that? And
		
00:24:58 --> 00:25:00
			it's a really good one.
		
00:25:00 --> 00:25:01
			I
		
00:25:01 --> 00:25:02
			when I was 16,
		
00:25:03 --> 00:25:05
			I remember being on my college campus,
		
00:25:06 --> 00:25:08
			and a speaker from the ANC came
		
00:25:08 --> 00:25:10
			to teach us about apartheid.
		
00:25:11 --> 00:25:14
			And and you can hear about apartheid
		
00:25:14 --> 00:25:15
			from someone who
		
00:25:16 --> 00:25:18
			you live beside every day and go to
		
00:25:18 --> 00:25:20
			college with and even a professor. But when
		
00:25:20 --> 00:25:21
			you have someone who's like, I saw this
		
00:25:21 --> 00:25:24
			with my eyes and bring you into their
		
00:25:24 --> 00:25:27
			reality and you are joining their struggle,
		
00:25:27 --> 00:25:29
			that's far more powerful. So I think,
		
00:25:29 --> 00:25:32
			the next the next stage is to equip
		
00:25:33 --> 00:25:34
			and
		
00:25:34 --> 00:25:36
			help the Palestinian voices
		
00:25:36 --> 00:25:38
			to who are in English. This is very
		
00:25:38 --> 00:25:39
			vital.
		
00:25:39 --> 00:25:42
			Okay? The holocaust wouldn't have mattered if it
		
00:25:42 --> 00:25:44
			is saying stayed in German and Yiddish.
		
00:25:44 --> 00:25:45
			Right?
		
00:25:45 --> 00:25:47
			English is is right now the language because
		
00:25:47 --> 00:25:49
			because this is the the the global elite.
		
00:25:49 --> 00:25:51
			Right? You've got to get your speakers lined
		
00:25:51 --> 00:25:53
			in a row. They're gonna be winning women
		
00:25:53 --> 00:25:55
			speakers. You've got to have your your people
		
00:25:55 --> 00:25:58
			paying for their flights, making sure that they're
		
00:25:58 --> 00:25:58
			they're
		
00:25:58 --> 00:26:01
			they're organized and getting them to speak to
		
00:26:01 --> 00:26:02
			as many people as possible. We want those
		
00:26:02 --> 00:26:05
			voices. You and not me, not you. I
		
00:26:05 --> 00:26:07
			should be redundant. I wanna be redundant in
		
00:26:07 --> 00:26:08
			this.
		
00:26:08 --> 00:26:09
			Write us out
		
00:26:10 --> 00:26:11
			with the Palestinian
		
00:26:11 --> 00:26:11
			voices.
		
00:26:12 --> 00:26:13
			But again,
		
00:26:13 --> 00:26:16
			one step ahead, the Zionists are like, we
		
00:26:16 --> 00:26:18
			can't have them on campus because it's hate
		
00:26:18 --> 00:26:20
			speech from the river to the sea. Even
		
00:26:21 --> 00:26:23
			talking about Palestine, unless you say it doesn't
		
00:26:23 --> 00:26:25
			exist, is hate speech.
		
00:26:25 --> 00:26:27
			So I think the first battle is really
		
00:26:28 --> 00:26:29
			to delineate
		
00:26:29 --> 00:26:32
			American and British laws and European laws about
		
00:26:32 --> 00:26:34
			free speech. I think that's actually
		
00:26:34 --> 00:26:36
			the first quarter battle. Mhmm.
		
00:26:37 --> 00:26:37
			I,
		
00:26:38 --> 00:26:39
			I happen to stumble across,
		
00:26:42 --> 00:26:43
			a video clip,
		
00:26:44 --> 00:26:46
			where Mohammed al Kurd,
		
00:26:47 --> 00:26:48
			from Jerusalem,
		
00:26:48 --> 00:26:50
			where he addresses the camera.
		
00:26:52 --> 00:26:53
			And
		
00:26:53 --> 00:26:56
			he says something quite powerful, but something that
		
00:26:56 --> 00:26:57
			is very, very nuanced.
		
00:26:58 --> 00:27:02
			And he responds to the charges of either
		
00:27:02 --> 00:27:03
			anti Semitism
		
00:27:03 --> 00:27:05
			or the like or anti Jewish
		
00:27:06 --> 00:27:09
			or Jewish hatred or or the like.
		
00:27:10 --> 00:27:11
			And he says something
		
00:27:11 --> 00:27:12
			which,
		
00:27:13 --> 00:27:15
			you know, since then, I've been I've been
		
00:27:15 --> 00:27:16
			thinking to myself,
		
00:27:17 --> 00:27:18
			how can this be,
		
00:27:20 --> 00:27:21
			how can this be articulated
		
00:27:23 --> 00:27:24
			in a
		
00:27:24 --> 00:27:26
			clear, in a nuanced,
		
00:27:27 --> 00:27:28
			in a concise
		
00:27:29 --> 00:27:29
			way
		
00:27:30 --> 00:27:31
			to today's
		
00:27:31 --> 00:27:32
			activists,
		
00:27:32 --> 00:27:35
			but also to the general public who are
		
00:27:35 --> 00:27:35
			still undecided.
		
00:27:38 --> 00:27:41
			And, basically, what he says is, listen. The
		
00:27:41 --> 00:27:42
			fact that my house
		
00:27:43 --> 00:27:44
			was robbed
		
00:27:44 --> 00:27:45
			by
		
00:27:46 --> 00:27:48
			invaders and settlers who happened to be Jewish
		
00:27:48 --> 00:27:49
			is not my fault.
		
00:27:50 --> 00:27:52
			You can't accuse me of
		
00:27:52 --> 00:27:54
			of of
		
00:27:54 --> 00:27:54
			Jewish
		
00:27:55 --> 00:27:57
			hatred when it was
		
00:27:58 --> 00:27:58
			someone
		
00:27:59 --> 00:28:02
			who happened to be Jewish, who happened to
		
00:28:02 --> 00:28:03
			be carrying the Star of David,
		
00:28:04 --> 00:28:05
			who killed my neighbors,
		
00:28:06 --> 00:28:09
			who ransacked my land, and who are now
		
00:28:09 --> 00:28:12
			committing the genocide in Israel. Stop asking me
		
00:28:12 --> 00:28:13
			this.
		
00:28:13 --> 00:28:14
			It's not my fault.
		
00:28:15 --> 00:28:17
			Had it not been someone Jewish, I would
		
00:28:17 --> 00:28:19
			have stood said the same stood the same.
		
00:28:19 --> 00:28:22
			It just so happened that it was someone
		
00:28:22 --> 00:28:24
			who happened to be Jew who
		
00:28:25 --> 00:28:25
			was proud
		
00:28:26 --> 00:28:29
			to use their Jewishness in order to justify
		
00:28:30 --> 00:28:32
			the killing, the ransacking, the thieving,
		
00:28:33 --> 00:28:35
			and the harassing. And still to this very
		
00:28:35 --> 00:28:36
			day,
		
00:28:36 --> 00:28:39
			I find that enormously powerful. It's been a
		
00:28:39 --> 00:28:42
			very clever trick, hasn't it, to to say
		
00:28:42 --> 00:28:44
			that on the one hand,
		
00:28:44 --> 00:28:46
			the right wing, the settler colonial,
		
00:28:48 --> 00:28:51
			mechanisms, they're so violent and so ready to
		
00:28:51 --> 00:28:53
			hurt and maim are at the same time
		
00:28:53 --> 00:28:55
			so fragile on the front line They're going
		
00:28:55 --> 00:28:58
			like this. You stabbed me in the eye.
		
00:28:58 --> 00:29:00
			You made me upset. You're you're wearing that
		
00:29:00 --> 00:29:03
			kefir in the street, and I'm feeling triggered.
		
00:29:03 --> 00:29:04
			Get a life.
		
00:29:04 --> 00:29:06
			I really like
		
00:29:06 --> 00:29:09
			what, and and applaud what is being said
		
00:29:09 --> 00:29:11
			now. You know, you look stupid, right? This
		
00:29:11 --> 00:29:14
			whole fake fragility thing, when behind the woman
		
00:29:14 --> 00:29:16
			who falls to the ground and nothing's happened
		
00:29:16 --> 00:29:19
			to her, our guys coming up and pushing
		
00:29:19 --> 00:29:21
			our our sisters. There were and these are
		
00:29:21 --> 00:29:23
			associate professors of universities.
		
00:29:24 --> 00:29:26
			Did you see that? Jonathan, somebody who was
		
00:29:26 --> 00:29:28
			in her face calling her the, you know,
		
00:29:28 --> 00:29:29
			the b word. And
		
00:29:29 --> 00:29:32
			no, we don't put up with it. You're
		
00:29:32 --> 00:29:32
			lying,
		
00:29:32 --> 00:29:35
			and you're whole, and you're violent,
		
00:29:35 --> 00:29:37
			and we don't have to apologize for our
		
00:29:37 --> 00:29:38
			stance.
		
00:29:39 --> 00:29:40
			It's,
		
00:29:41 --> 00:29:43
			yeah. I mean, the the fact that
		
00:29:45 --> 00:29:46
			the fact that people
		
00:29:47 --> 00:29:48
			have the gall,
		
00:29:50 --> 00:29:53
			to say I'm offended by you raising the
		
00:29:53 --> 00:29:55
			Palestinian flag when actually the
		
00:29:56 --> 00:29:59
			the country or the state or the entity
		
00:29:59 --> 00:30:00
			that you are defending
		
00:30:02 --> 00:30:04
			is actively involved in committing a genocide.
		
00:30:05 --> 00:30:05
			And yet
		
00:30:06 --> 00:30:08
			I'm the one who should look after your
		
00:30:08 --> 00:30:09
			feelings
		
00:30:09 --> 00:30:11
			and not raise a flag or not chant
		
00:30:11 --> 00:30:13
			from the river to the sea is And,
		
00:30:13 --> 00:30:15
			Anas, there's a there's a deeper question here
		
00:30:15 --> 00:30:17
			about who gets to be angry.
		
00:30:17 --> 00:30:18
			Right?
		
00:30:18 --> 00:30:20
			Why is it always
		
00:30:20 --> 00:30:24
			that the oppressed non white person has to,
		
00:30:25 --> 00:30:25
			you know,
		
00:30:26 --> 00:30:28
			Appease. Try to appease and make a difference
		
00:30:28 --> 00:30:29
			in in a certain way. So I'll give
		
00:30:29 --> 00:30:32
			you an example. You can march along this
		
00:30:32 --> 00:30:33
			street, but you put a tent there and
		
00:30:33 --> 00:30:36
			you can't. You're allowed to say peace and
		
00:30:36 --> 00:30:38
			love, but you can't say free Palestine. What
		
00:30:38 --> 00:30:40
			as long as we are forced
		
00:30:40 --> 00:30:41
			to protest
		
00:30:41 --> 00:30:42
			in a mechanism
		
00:30:43 --> 00:30:44
			that is shutting us down,
		
00:30:45 --> 00:30:46
			then then we're not gonna make a difference.
		
00:30:46 --> 00:30:49
			So I really applaud all of our student
		
00:30:49 --> 00:30:51
			leaders who who are saying, we're gonna chant
		
00:30:51 --> 00:30:53
			from the river to the sea, and that
		
00:30:53 --> 00:30:56
			is actually not aggressive compared to anything that
		
00:30:56 --> 00:30:58
			you're doing. I remember my husband said,
		
00:30:59 --> 00:31:01
			that as a man from the Caribbean,
		
00:31:01 --> 00:31:02
			his most disappointing
		
00:31:03 --> 00:31:05
			moment in the whole of the Roots series,
		
00:31:06 --> 00:31:08
			remember in the 19 seventies about the slave
		
00:31:08 --> 00:31:10
			trade, was when Kunta Kinte,
		
00:31:10 --> 00:31:12
			they finally caught what, you know, had a
		
00:31:12 --> 00:31:16
			moment of retribution potential against the slave master.
		
00:31:16 --> 00:31:17
			And he threw
		
00:31:18 --> 00:31:19
			down, you know, the whip and ran away.
		
00:31:20 --> 00:31:21
			And he said as a as a as
		
00:31:21 --> 00:31:23
			a Black person, that made him feel sick
		
00:31:24 --> 00:31:26
			because he saw in that, oh, that's how
		
00:31:26 --> 00:31:28
			you sell, like, the roots story.
		
00:31:28 --> 00:31:30
			You've gotta be nice in the end and
		
00:31:30 --> 00:31:33
			play nicely with your oppressor, and we're gonna
		
00:31:33 --> 00:31:35
			delineate how, how that looks like.
		
00:31:36 --> 00:31:37
			Yeah. It's,
		
00:31:38 --> 00:31:41
			I think it's, it needs a lot of,
		
00:31:43 --> 00:31:43
			introspection.
		
00:31:43 --> 00:31:45
			It needs a lot of
		
00:31:45 --> 00:31:49
			examination as to how we even as as
		
00:31:49 --> 00:31:51
			activists, as people who believe in the cause,
		
00:31:51 --> 00:31:53
			with people who think that we stem
		
00:31:54 --> 00:31:55
			from the right place
		
00:31:55 --> 00:31:57
			and are saying the right things,
		
00:31:57 --> 00:32:00
			I think much of our beliefs as well
		
00:32:00 --> 00:32:02
			need need a lot of examples. Palestinians
		
00:32:03 --> 00:32:05
			from the left position for decades,
		
00:32:05 --> 00:32:07
			don't talk about your own,
		
00:32:08 --> 00:32:09
			resistance
		
00:32:09 --> 00:32:11
			has had is a shame on the movement.
		
00:32:12 --> 00:32:15
			And And also, you know, one of the
		
00:32:15 --> 00:32:18
			arguments continuously is and whilst I do not
		
00:32:18 --> 00:32:20
			dispute for a single second
		
00:32:21 --> 00:32:22
			the fact that,
		
00:32:23 --> 00:32:24
			essentially, Palestine
		
00:32:25 --> 00:32:27
			and, obviously, the case of Gaza
		
00:32:27 --> 00:32:29
			is a humanitarian
		
00:32:29 --> 00:32:29
			issue,
		
00:32:30 --> 00:32:33
			But to take away and try to sanction
		
00:32:34 --> 00:32:37
			the religious and belief elements within,
		
00:32:39 --> 00:32:41
			I think is doing the whole cause a
		
00:32:41 --> 00:32:42
			great disservice.
		
00:32:42 --> 00:32:44
			Well, where where did that lead the Palestinians
		
00:32:45 --> 00:32:47
			in the 19 eighties? It led them to
		
00:32:47 --> 00:32:50
			the Oslo Accords. Thank you very, very much.
		
00:32:50 --> 00:32:51
			We democratized.
		
00:32:51 --> 00:32:54
			We we we dressed like you. We swallowed
		
00:32:54 --> 00:32:56
			cover. But we, I feel Palestinian.
		
00:32:57 --> 00:32:57
			The Palestinians
		
00:32:58 --> 00:33:00
			said that they've done this and they've they've
		
00:33:00 --> 00:33:03
			swallowed the narrative. And here's Yasser Arafat. Here
		
00:33:03 --> 00:33:06
			we are. And you just destroy the land
		
00:33:06 --> 00:33:09
			from thereon in. But in a way, you
		
00:33:09 --> 00:33:12
			know, you destroy us from inside as Muslims.
		
00:33:12 --> 00:33:14
			That's what I'm talking about here. I'm talking
		
00:33:14 --> 00:33:16
			about this as an ummah subject as well.
		
00:33:17 --> 00:33:19
			Because there like you say, there is definitely
		
00:33:19 --> 00:33:19
			a move to
		
00:33:20 --> 00:33:23
			you know, there are already people looking at
		
00:33:23 --> 00:33:23
			what
		
00:33:24 --> 00:33:25
			post
		
00:33:25 --> 00:33:26
			genocide
		
00:33:26 --> 00:33:28
			Palestine looks like. Today, Tulkarem
		
00:33:29 --> 00:33:30
			has a huge invasion
		
00:33:31 --> 00:33:32
			by the Zionists
		
00:33:33 --> 00:33:35
			on all different levels, chewing up the streets,
		
00:33:35 --> 00:33:37
			smashing the houses, killing the young.
		
00:33:38 --> 00:33:38
			And
		
00:33:40 --> 00:33:43
			once they're done with that and their dream
		
00:33:43 --> 00:33:45
			is to to to push the Palestinians into
		
00:33:45 --> 00:33:46
			an even smaller space,
		
00:33:47 --> 00:33:49
			then the Palestinians will be told, now you
		
00:33:49 --> 00:33:51
			can speak in this way and you can
		
00:33:51 --> 00:33:53
			dress this way. And and you've lost Al
		
00:33:53 --> 00:33:55
			Aqsa, but it didn't really matter because Islam
		
00:33:55 --> 00:33:58
			is only beneath the the your question is
		
00:33:58 --> 00:33:59
			one about land.
		
00:33:59 --> 00:34:01
			They were there are outside forces who want
		
00:34:01 --> 00:34:04
			this to be a flag waving moment
		
00:34:04 --> 00:34:06
			because what has happened in the Arab world
		
00:34:06 --> 00:34:06
			is
		
00:34:07 --> 00:34:08
			ridiculous.
		
00:34:08 --> 00:34:11
			Everybody behind their little flag, their little invented
		
00:34:11 --> 00:34:12
			flag.
		
00:34:12 --> 00:34:14
			So how old is your flag?
		
00:34:14 --> 00:34:16
			52 years. Oh, congratulations.
		
00:34:17 --> 00:34:18
			And I die for my country. It's like,
		
00:34:18 --> 00:34:22
			oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. What does what I
		
00:34:22 --> 00:34:24
			mean, since you you brought up the subject,
		
00:34:26 --> 00:34:28
			I mean, what kind of impression does that
		
00:34:28 --> 00:34:30
			leave with you when you
		
00:34:31 --> 00:34:33
			see, you know, on one hand, we're looking
		
00:34:33 --> 00:34:36
			at across America, across the UK, across many
		
00:34:36 --> 00:34:37
			cities in Europe
		
00:34:37 --> 00:34:40
			and how people, young and old, are responding
		
00:34:40 --> 00:34:42
			to Gaza are defying. I mean, I was
		
00:34:42 --> 00:34:44
			talking with a German with a friend from
		
00:34:44 --> 00:34:45
			Germany the other day.
		
00:34:46 --> 00:34:48
			And, I mean, Germany has been absolutely
		
00:34:49 --> 00:34:52
			horrendous, I mean, and has brought back laws
		
00:34:52 --> 00:34:53
			that have been
		
00:34:54 --> 00:34:55
			absolutely,
		
00:34:55 --> 00:34:58
			you know, in the echelons of history and
		
00:34:58 --> 00:34:58
			totally
		
00:34:59 --> 00:34:59
			draconian,
		
00:35:00 --> 00:35:01
			brought them back
		
00:35:01 --> 00:35:03
			particularly for the sake of the pro Palestine
		
00:35:04 --> 00:35:04
			campaign
		
00:35:05 --> 00:35:08
			and have gone full circle, apparently. I mean,
		
00:35:08 --> 00:35:10
			they're now doing the very same things
		
00:35:10 --> 00:35:12
			that they did as, you know, when the
		
00:35:12 --> 00:35:14
			Nazis was was in charge, but now they're
		
00:35:14 --> 00:35:15
			claiming that they're doing it in order to
		
00:35:15 --> 00:35:16
			counter
		
00:35:16 --> 00:35:19
			anti Semitism, but doing the very same things.
		
00:35:20 --> 00:35:22
			And yet he tells me that there is
		
00:35:22 --> 00:35:24
			not a day that goes by by without
		
00:35:25 --> 00:35:28
			a demonstration with 1,000 upon 1,000, sometimes 100
		
00:35:28 --> 00:35:29
			of 1,000 people. So are we not? I
		
00:35:29 --> 00:35:31
			think the problem is we're not hearing the
		
00:35:31 --> 00:35:34
			German voice. I I haven't heard many Germans
		
00:35:34 --> 00:35:34
			interviewed
		
00:35:35 --> 00:35:37
			to say what it's like under that. We
		
00:35:37 --> 00:35:39
			know that there's this tier of this broken
		
00:35:39 --> 00:35:41
			political system who are
		
00:35:41 --> 00:35:43
			are selling, making money out of,
		
00:35:44 --> 00:35:47
			the the the guns and, guns, bombs, whatever
		
00:35:47 --> 00:35:49
			they sell to Israel. Right?
		
00:35:49 --> 00:35:51
			But what are the people actually thinking about
		
00:35:51 --> 00:35:53
			this, I wonder? I I don't actually don't
		
00:35:53 --> 00:35:55
			know. I think, that would be an interesting
		
00:35:55 --> 00:35:58
			discussion to have. But but, I mean, carrying
		
00:35:58 --> 00:35:59
			on from my question, basically,
		
00:35:59 --> 00:36:00
			you see this
		
00:36:01 --> 00:36:02
			and people defying
		
00:36:03 --> 00:36:04
			laws, defying threats,
		
00:36:05 --> 00:36:06
			defying
		
00:36:06 --> 00:36:09
			intimidation, actually, actually, actual intimidation.
		
00:36:10 --> 00:36:12
			And then you look to the neighbouring countries,
		
00:36:12 --> 00:36:15
			the Arab countries, the Muslim countries,
		
00:36:15 --> 00:36:17
			and you see,
		
00:36:19 --> 00:36:21
			I don't know whether it's it's paralysis,
		
00:36:22 --> 00:36:24
			whether it's in diff I'm pretty sure that
		
00:36:24 --> 00:36:26
			deep inside people feel, you know, just like
		
00:36:26 --> 00:36:29
			ourselves. They're they're boiling inside. They're simmering. I
		
00:36:29 --> 00:36:31
			mean, they're they're just ready to go and
		
00:36:31 --> 00:36:33
			do whatever it takes in order to save
		
00:36:34 --> 00:36:35
			Palestinian child with such.
		
00:36:36 --> 00:36:38
			But the fact that, you know, on the
		
00:36:38 --> 00:36:40
			face of it, you see virtually nothing apart
		
00:36:40 --> 00:36:42
			from pockets. Can we give that old example,
		
00:36:42 --> 00:36:44
			Annas, about the elephant?
		
00:36:44 --> 00:36:46
			You get a baby elephant,
		
00:36:46 --> 00:36:47
			and a circus
		
00:36:47 --> 00:36:50
			ties a heavy chain around its front leg
		
00:36:50 --> 00:36:52
			for 6 months. And every time it pulls,
		
00:36:52 --> 00:36:54
			they beat they they beat the baby elephant.
		
00:36:54 --> 00:36:56
			When that elephant is big, they can have
		
00:36:56 --> 00:36:58
			a piece of of of rope very light
		
00:36:59 --> 00:37:00
			to a peg in the ground, and it
		
00:37:00 --> 00:37:02
			won't resist anymore. So I think when we're
		
00:37:02 --> 00:37:04
			talking about our brothers and sisters in in
		
00:37:04 --> 00:37:07
			the Arab world, let's look back to uprisings
		
00:37:07 --> 00:37:08
			and and,
		
00:37:09 --> 00:37:11
			protests that have happened that I'm not even
		
00:37:11 --> 00:37:13
			aware of in the last 70 years, because
		
00:37:13 --> 00:37:15
			there was a huge passion for Palestine.
		
00:37:16 --> 00:37:18
			And haven't they been beaten into submission?
		
00:37:19 --> 00:37:22
			I was speaking to a Palestinian Jordanian sister,
		
00:37:23 --> 00:37:25
			and she said, you know, my father fled
		
00:37:25 --> 00:37:26
			the Nakba.
		
00:37:27 --> 00:37:27
			And
		
00:37:28 --> 00:37:30
			she's very disturbed right now because he will
		
00:37:30 --> 00:37:31
			not even
		
00:37:32 --> 00:37:33
			watch anything on Gaza.
		
00:37:34 --> 00:37:36
			He won't watch it, and he's silent about
		
00:37:36 --> 00:37:39
			it. What can you do? What can you
		
00:37:39 --> 00:37:41
			do? And her theory, which is interesting, is
		
00:37:41 --> 00:37:42
			that
		
00:37:42 --> 00:37:44
			a lot of the Arab states were given
		
00:37:45 --> 00:37:46
			Western money,
		
00:37:47 --> 00:37:49
			Right? The gold and handcuffs that I spoke
		
00:37:49 --> 00:37:50
			about at the beginning.
		
00:37:50 --> 00:37:52
			Jordan was developed
		
00:37:53 --> 00:37:55
			in the seventies, eighties, nineties by
		
00:37:56 --> 00:37:57
			international aid.
		
00:37:57 --> 00:38:00
			Right? And they all got kind of fat
		
00:38:00 --> 00:38:02
			on the roasted calf and very comfortable with
		
00:38:02 --> 00:38:03
			it and don't rock the boatism.
		
00:38:04 --> 00:38:06
			Don't rock the boatism. And that doesn't work
		
00:38:06 --> 00:38:09
			for somewhere like Egypt where there's mass poverty.
		
00:38:09 --> 00:38:10
			But places
		
00:38:11 --> 00:38:13
			the places in the gulf region,
		
00:38:13 --> 00:38:16
			we're doing okay. Don't don't mess with us.
		
00:38:17 --> 00:38:19
			The prophet, peace be upon him,
		
00:38:19 --> 00:38:22
			was once asked, what do you fear for
		
00:38:22 --> 00:38:22
			your nation?
		
00:38:24 --> 00:38:26
			And at that point, he didn't say famine,
		
00:38:26 --> 00:38:27
			hunger,
		
00:38:27 --> 00:38:28
			enslavement,
		
00:38:29 --> 00:38:30
			poverty.
		
00:38:30 --> 00:38:31
			He said wealth.
		
00:38:33 --> 00:38:36
			Wealth. And, of course, you know, we become
		
00:38:36 --> 00:38:38
			wealthy. We fear death. We wanna hold on
		
00:38:38 --> 00:38:40
			to it, And we and we lose our
		
00:38:40 --> 00:38:41
			focus. We lose who we are, and we
		
00:38:41 --> 00:38:42
			lose our
		
00:38:43 --> 00:38:43
			our empathy.
		
00:38:44 --> 00:38:45
			Yeah.
		
00:38:46 --> 00:38:49
			You're you've been involved with the attempts
		
00:38:50 --> 00:38:50
			to,
		
00:38:51 --> 00:38:53
			sail a boat that would break the siege
		
00:38:53 --> 00:38:54
			on Gaza and that would deliver aid.
		
00:38:56 --> 00:38:58
			You worked on this for months on
		
00:38:58 --> 00:39:00
			end, and you saw
		
00:39:00 --> 00:39:03
			activists and supporters come from all corners of
		
00:39:03 --> 00:39:05
			the of the world in order to take
		
00:39:05 --> 00:39:05
			part
		
00:39:06 --> 00:39:08
			in this freedom for flotilla.
		
00:39:09 --> 00:39:11
			It might not have transpired.
		
00:39:12 --> 00:39:14
			It might not have happened for a variety
		
00:39:14 --> 00:39:16
			of reasons, many of which political. But,
		
00:39:19 --> 00:39:21
			what was your impression? What what what did
		
00:39:21 --> 00:39:21
			you think
		
00:39:22 --> 00:39:24
			as, you know, you were making those calls?
		
00:39:24 --> 00:39:26
			You were liaising. You were organizing. You were
		
00:39:26 --> 00:39:28
			speaking to the media about this. Let me,
		
00:39:28 --> 00:39:30
			first of all, not accept the premise of
		
00:39:30 --> 00:39:33
			that question. I came on quite late because
		
00:39:33 --> 00:39:35
			I offered some support with social media. So
		
00:39:35 --> 00:39:37
			there are campaigns called the free,
		
00:39:38 --> 00:39:40
			the freedom, the coalition,
		
00:39:40 --> 00:39:43
			And there's EHA that the major charity in
		
00:39:43 --> 00:39:45
			Turkey. Turkey. Yeah. And their and their their
		
00:39:45 --> 00:39:46
			their strategy groups, I wasn't a part of
		
00:39:46 --> 00:39:48
			that. But I have been,
		
00:39:49 --> 00:39:50
			you know you know,
		
00:39:50 --> 00:39:51
			a part of it for the last 6
		
00:39:51 --> 00:39:52
			weeks, we can say.
		
00:39:53 --> 00:39:54
			And I have met the people
		
00:39:55 --> 00:39:55
			who
		
00:39:56 --> 00:39:56
			were
		
00:39:57 --> 00:39:59
			willing to put their lives on the line.
		
00:39:59 --> 00:40:00
			Because
		
00:40:00 --> 00:40:01
			every of the 250
		
00:40:02 --> 00:40:04
			plus people who came from around the world
		
00:40:04 --> 00:40:07
			to take these boats to Gaza full of
		
00:40:07 --> 00:40:07
			8
		
00:40:07 --> 00:40:10
			knew that there was a high chance
		
00:40:11 --> 00:40:12
			of Israeli attack.
		
00:40:13 --> 00:40:15
			And I think what we're seeing
		
00:40:15 --> 00:40:17
			spread now, and let's talk about the young
		
00:40:17 --> 00:40:20
			again on these campuses, is not on my
		
00:40:20 --> 00:40:20
			watch.
		
00:40:21 --> 00:40:22
			When you ask,
		
00:40:23 --> 00:40:23
			the
		
00:40:24 --> 00:40:25
			elderly lady,
		
00:40:25 --> 00:40:27
			who can barely remember her own name, to
		
00:40:27 --> 00:40:29
			be quite honest. You know, I met her
		
00:40:29 --> 00:40:30
			3 times a day. She said, what's your
		
00:40:30 --> 00:40:32
			name, honey? And it's like, doesn't matter.
		
00:40:33 --> 00:40:34
			She's like,
		
00:40:35 --> 00:40:37
			you know, she doesn't wanna live and die
		
00:40:37 --> 00:40:40
			with this happening in her lifespan without having
		
00:40:40 --> 00:40:40
			done something.
		
00:40:41 --> 00:40:43
			And I think that
		
00:40:43 --> 00:40:45
			is the most moving thing of all. And
		
00:40:45 --> 00:40:46
			on the flotilla this time,
		
00:40:47 --> 00:40:48
			there were a great deal of Muslims, by
		
00:40:48 --> 00:40:51
			the way, a great deal of Arab Muslims.
		
00:40:51 --> 00:40:53
			Jordanians were well represented.
		
00:40:53 --> 00:40:55
			I think there were some Egyptians.
		
00:40:55 --> 00:40:58
			So that young voice is coming through
		
00:40:58 --> 00:41:00
			from from from our And let's not forget
		
00:41:00 --> 00:41:01
			the last time
		
00:41:02 --> 00:41:04
			this happened, there was the case of the
		
00:41:04 --> 00:41:07
			Mavi Marmara where people were actually killed.
		
00:41:07 --> 00:41:08
			9 people,
		
00:41:09 --> 00:41:11
			I think 9 people were killed.
		
00:41:11 --> 00:41:13
			Dozens injured by gunfire.
		
00:41:14 --> 00:41:14
			The,
		
00:41:14 --> 00:41:15
			Israelis
		
00:41:15 --> 00:41:18
			opening fire from lines from the helicopter.
		
00:41:19 --> 00:41:20
			I've spoken to survivors
		
00:41:21 --> 00:41:23
			who were standing behind the cameraman who's filming
		
00:41:23 --> 00:41:25
			it. They shot through the camera lens
		
00:41:25 --> 00:41:27
			and took out the back of his head.
		
00:41:27 --> 00:41:29
			The and and a list of people that
		
00:41:29 --> 00:41:31
			they wanted to deliberately
		
00:41:31 --> 00:41:34
			assassinate on board, which which included some some
		
00:41:34 --> 00:41:36
			some shi'uk, subhanAllah,
		
00:41:36 --> 00:41:38
			that were found later on. And
		
00:41:39 --> 00:41:40
			yet people are still willing to do that.
		
00:41:40 --> 00:41:42
			And I think if we can
		
00:41:43 --> 00:41:44
			really latch onto the fact
		
00:41:46 --> 00:41:47
			that hearts move people
		
00:41:48 --> 00:41:50
			and the intellect must follow the heart and
		
00:41:50 --> 00:41:52
			that we must be brave hearts,
		
00:41:53 --> 00:41:53
			We're
		
00:41:54 --> 00:41:55
			all going to have to be brave in
		
00:41:55 --> 00:41:57
			some way. You know, there was
		
00:41:57 --> 00:41:59
			when you first met me
		
00:41:59 --> 00:42:00
			15 years ago,
		
00:42:01 --> 00:42:02
			I was considered
		
00:42:02 --> 00:42:05
			with, along with many other people, a rogue
		
00:42:05 --> 00:42:07
			voice. Like, I had people say to me
		
00:42:07 --> 00:42:08
			afterwards, we didn't wanna speak to you because,
		
00:42:08 --> 00:42:11
			you know, the whole Palestine thing, the rocking
		
00:42:11 --> 00:42:12
			the boat thing.
		
00:42:12 --> 00:42:14
			And, you know, we were pushed,
		
00:42:15 --> 00:42:15
			marginalized,
		
00:42:16 --> 00:42:17
			deplatformed
		
00:42:18 --> 00:42:19
			by the Muslim community.
		
00:42:19 --> 00:42:22
			You know, we need to sort ourselves out.
		
00:42:22 --> 00:42:24
			In the UK right now,
		
00:42:24 --> 00:42:26
			there have been a number of,
		
00:42:26 --> 00:42:28
			new, new councilors
		
00:42:28 --> 00:42:29
			voted in
		
00:42:30 --> 00:42:30
			on,
		
00:42:31 --> 00:42:32
			Gaza genocide.
		
00:42:33 --> 00:42:34
			What does it mean in the UK platform?
		
00:42:35 --> 00:42:38
			I pray to Allah that they don't
		
00:42:38 --> 00:42:40
			negotiate their beliefs in order to stay in
		
00:42:40 --> 00:42:42
			power. They don't become
		
00:42:43 --> 00:42:43
			a point of,
		
00:42:44 --> 00:42:46
			negotiation or compromise.
		
00:42:47 --> 00:42:48
			Yeah, that's that's a very
		
00:42:48 --> 00:42:51
			good point. And to be perfectly honest, when,
		
00:42:51 --> 00:42:53
			you know, I'm part of the Muslim vote
		
00:42:53 --> 00:42:56
			as well as various other campaigns in order
		
00:42:56 --> 00:42:58
			to get the vote organized.
		
00:42:59 --> 00:43:00
			And I have to say that the
		
00:43:01 --> 00:43:03
			the the the question that comes up and
		
00:43:03 --> 00:43:05
			we're confronted with more than any other probably
		
00:43:05 --> 00:43:06
			is
		
00:43:07 --> 00:43:08
			what guarantee is that,
		
00:43:09 --> 00:43:11
			once this person who is, you know, saying
		
00:43:11 --> 00:43:13
			all the right things right now
		
00:43:13 --> 00:43:14
			might not
		
00:43:14 --> 00:43:17
			change their position once they're in office. So
		
00:43:17 --> 00:43:19
			the position then, and you and you'll know
		
00:43:19 --> 00:43:21
			this better than me, is if you flood
		
00:43:21 --> 00:43:22
			the market,
		
00:43:22 --> 00:43:24
			then a percentage of them are gonna get
		
00:43:24 --> 00:43:25
			through. Right?
		
00:43:25 --> 00:43:28
			Hopefully, that that they won't be alone. They
		
00:43:28 --> 00:43:30
			won't feel isolated. They won't feel like they're
		
00:43:30 --> 00:43:31
			surrounded and
		
00:43:39 --> 00:43:41
			silent in government and then have to leave
		
00:43:41 --> 00:43:43
			office in order to say what they actually
		
00:43:43 --> 00:43:45
			think. Say it while you're there.
		
00:43:45 --> 00:43:47
			Say it from day 1. By the way,
		
00:43:47 --> 00:43:48
			that's not only,
		
00:43:48 --> 00:43:50
			Muslim politicians. Apparently,
		
00:43:51 --> 00:43:53
			most politicians who leave office or are on
		
00:43:53 --> 00:43:55
			the brink of leaving office, all of a
		
00:43:55 --> 00:43:58
			sudden have this, you know, kind of revelation
		
00:43:59 --> 00:44:02
			and start speaking and saying all the brilliant
		
00:44:02 --> 00:44:03
			things. You know, I've had journalists,
		
00:44:04 --> 00:44:05
			say that
		
00:44:05 --> 00:44:08
			in BBC news offices, journalists, young young journalists
		
00:44:09 --> 00:44:09
			are crying
		
00:44:10 --> 00:44:12
			at news bulletins like, I'm writing this awful
		
00:44:12 --> 00:44:13
			script.
		
00:44:13 --> 00:44:16
			You know, where is the backup for them?
		
00:44:16 --> 00:44:17
			Where is it gonna be their outlet?
		
00:44:18 --> 00:44:20
			Are we creating structures that are going to
		
00:44:20 --> 00:44:21
			say, we can bring you
		
00:44:22 --> 00:44:24
			to this? Where are our young voices going
		
00:44:24 --> 00:44:26
			to go? And I think that's that's where
		
00:44:26 --> 00:44:27
			we need to be looking.
		
00:44:28 --> 00:44:29
			What do you think
		
00:44:31 --> 00:44:32
			British Muslims
		
00:44:33 --> 00:44:35
			ought to be concerned with right now? I
		
00:44:35 --> 00:44:37
			mean, obviously, we have Gaza. We have Palestine.
		
00:44:37 --> 00:44:38
			But what
		
00:44:38 --> 00:44:41
			should they be thinking of? Because let me
		
00:44:41 --> 00:44:42
			let me,
		
00:44:42 --> 00:44:43
			paint a picture,
		
00:44:44 --> 00:44:46
			within my circle of friends, which I'm talking
		
00:44:46 --> 00:44:49
			about a couple of dozen very close friends.
		
00:44:49 --> 00:44:51
			We confide in each other and as such.
		
00:44:52 --> 00:44:53
			There is
		
00:44:53 --> 00:44:55
			quite a percentage of them
		
00:44:56 --> 00:44:57
			who I would suggest
		
00:44:57 --> 00:44:58
			are
		
00:44:59 --> 00:45:01
			virtually tired of everything, and they're looking for
		
00:45:01 --> 00:45:03
			someone somewhere else
		
00:45:04 --> 00:45:06
			to go, to migrate, to raise their kids,
		
00:45:06 --> 00:45:07
			to have families
		
00:45:08 --> 00:45:10
			and to sort of escape from,
		
00:45:11 --> 00:45:12
			you know, we used to talk about the
		
00:45:12 --> 00:45:13
			rat race,
		
00:45:14 --> 00:45:16
			but now it's more than that. It's about,
		
00:45:16 --> 00:45:18
			you know, whether you talk about personal
		
00:45:19 --> 00:45:21
			issues and the cost of living crisis, which
		
00:45:21 --> 00:45:22
			is
		
00:45:22 --> 00:45:24
			which is, you know, debilitating.
		
00:45:25 --> 00:45:26
			It's it's it's that bad.
		
00:45:27 --> 00:45:28
			As well as the narrative,
		
00:45:29 --> 00:45:32
			the escalation and the rise in Islamophobia,
		
00:45:34 --> 00:45:35
			as well as
		
00:45:35 --> 00:45:38
			and I, you know, I I'm I'm
		
00:45:38 --> 00:45:40
			I'm sorry to say this, but whilst Britain
		
00:45:40 --> 00:45:41
			remains
		
00:45:42 --> 00:45:44
			far way ahead of France and Germany and
		
00:45:44 --> 00:45:46
			the likes in terms of, you know, the
		
00:45:46 --> 00:45:49
			the the the scope of freedom and the
		
00:45:49 --> 00:45:50
			ability to to be active and to say
		
00:45:50 --> 00:45:51
			what you think,
		
00:45:52 --> 00:45:53
			But
		
00:45:53 --> 00:45:56
			comparing to where we were 10, 15, 20
		
00:45:56 --> 00:45:57
			years ago,
		
00:45:57 --> 00:46:00
			it is nigh on, you know, an
		
00:46:00 --> 00:46:02
			autocracy almost. I mean, the kind of laws
		
00:46:02 --> 00:46:04
			that are being brought in. I mean, we
		
00:46:04 --> 00:46:06
			can mention the Rwanda law, but, you know,
		
00:46:06 --> 00:46:09
			they have the borders and nationalities law, which
		
00:46:09 --> 00:46:11
			is just there lingering in the in the
		
00:46:11 --> 00:46:13
			sidelines just waiting to to to be at
		
00:46:13 --> 00:46:14
			the fore.
		
00:46:14 --> 00:46:17
			The ban on protests, the curtailing of freedoms
		
00:46:18 --> 00:46:20
			of of speech. What's happening to people who
		
00:46:20 --> 00:46:21
			dare
		
00:46:21 --> 00:46:23
			speak their minds and what's happening in their
		
00:46:23 --> 00:46:26
			jobs, you know, for their future careers, for
		
00:46:26 --> 00:46:27
			their pensions, and the like.
		
00:46:28 --> 00:46:30
			People, you know, are now I have to
		
00:46:30 --> 00:46:33
			say, they're getting tired of where we are.
		
00:46:33 --> 00:46:35
			But at the same time, when they ask
		
00:46:35 --> 00:46:37
			me, you know, because I travel around, so
		
00:46:37 --> 00:46:38
			they come to me and say, you know,
		
00:46:38 --> 00:46:40
			and as well, where do you think we
		
00:46:40 --> 00:46:42
			should go? Where do you think we should
		
00:46:42 --> 00:46:44
			go? What's the good I you know, I'm
		
00:46:44 --> 00:46:46
			I'll be honest. I wouldn't dare,
		
00:46:47 --> 00:46:49
			you know, give an answer.
		
00:46:49 --> 00:46:52
			And and that sort of fills me with
		
00:46:52 --> 00:46:56
			with sadness first, but also trepidation because
		
00:46:56 --> 00:46:57
			I am a believer
		
00:46:57 --> 00:47:00
			that we still have a job to do
		
00:47:01 --> 00:47:03
			and that we can
		
00:47:04 --> 00:47:05
			do that job. That job is not an
		
00:47:05 --> 00:47:08
			impossible mission. It's a doable job.
		
00:47:08 --> 00:47:10
			But we just need to,
		
00:47:10 --> 00:47:13
			you know, organize, open our minds, open our
		
00:47:13 --> 00:47:15
			contact books, get in touch with people and
		
00:47:15 --> 00:47:17
			have those discussions. Do you believe
		
00:47:18 --> 00:47:18
			that
		
00:47:19 --> 00:47:21
			Islam and attachment to the masjid
		
00:47:22 --> 00:47:24
			is going to be a focal point from
		
00:47:24 --> 00:47:26
			which beauty can flourish in the United Kingdom?
		
00:47:26 --> 00:47:28
			And should that be the starting point?
		
00:47:30 --> 00:47:31
			I would like to think so, and I
		
00:47:31 --> 00:47:32
			think,
		
00:47:33 --> 00:47:35
			it is possible,
		
00:47:35 --> 00:47:36
			but
		
00:47:36 --> 00:47:38
			I don't think we're there yet. I don't
		
00:47:38 --> 00:47:39
			think we're there yet.
		
00:47:39 --> 00:47:41
			So what comes to fill that gap? Business?
		
00:47:42 --> 00:47:44
			That that's that's a very good question. So
		
00:47:44 --> 00:47:46
			is it? That's a very, very good question.
		
00:47:46 --> 00:47:47
			And that's something that
		
00:47:48 --> 00:47:50
			I think more and more people are not
		
00:47:50 --> 00:47:53
			only Muslims by the way, are sort of,
		
00:47:53 --> 00:47:56
			asking about. And that's how many, by the
		
00:47:56 --> 00:47:58
			way, are finding Islam and where we're seeing
		
00:47:58 --> 00:48:01
			all those clips on TikTok from across the
		
00:48:01 --> 00:48:03
			Atlantic, you know, in America, Canada, as well
		
00:48:03 --> 00:48:05
			as across Europe where people are saying, you
		
00:48:05 --> 00:48:07
			know, hang on. You know, what's happening in
		
00:48:07 --> 00:48:08
			Gaza has
		
00:48:08 --> 00:48:11
			made me ask questions that I never thought
		
00:48:11 --> 00:48:12
			of posing before.
		
00:48:13 --> 00:48:15
			And all of a sudden I'm reading these
		
00:48:15 --> 00:48:17
			verses of the Quran. I'm finding,
		
00:48:17 --> 00:48:20
			you know, these answers which I'm deeply impacted
		
00:48:20 --> 00:48:22
			by in such. I think
		
00:48:23 --> 00:48:24
			that that is
		
00:48:25 --> 00:48:26
			a potential. That's
		
00:48:27 --> 00:48:28
			Look. Can we live simpler?
		
00:48:29 --> 00:48:31
			Can we live simpler in the UK? Can
		
00:48:31 --> 00:48:32
			we live communal?
		
00:48:32 --> 00:48:35
			Can we opt out? We have so much
		
00:48:35 --> 00:48:36
			money. We're one of the we're we're we've
		
00:48:36 --> 00:48:39
			got the poorest community in the UK and
		
00:48:39 --> 00:48:40
			some of the richest,
		
00:48:40 --> 00:48:41
			and that's a disconnect.
		
00:48:42 --> 00:48:44
			And I and and and we we we
		
00:48:44 --> 00:48:46
			need the money from the richest to really
		
00:48:46 --> 00:48:47
			go into projects
		
00:48:48 --> 00:48:50
			that are going to, at first and foremost,
		
00:48:51 --> 00:48:52
			build up the solidarity
		
00:48:53 --> 00:48:54
			with their faith,
		
00:48:54 --> 00:48:55
			with goodness,
		
00:48:56 --> 00:48:59
			with with sharing what we have with those
		
00:48:59 --> 00:49:00
			in need. I'll give you an example.
		
00:49:01 --> 00:49:02
			There was,
		
00:49:02 --> 00:49:04
			10 years ago, a masjid
		
00:49:04 --> 00:49:05
			who,
		
00:49:05 --> 00:49:07
			was asked by young women, why are you
		
00:49:07 --> 00:49:10
			only having a crush for Muslims? We we've
		
00:49:10 --> 00:49:12
			got nothing here. You know? And they started
		
00:49:12 --> 00:49:14
			to invite them in and gradually. And and
		
00:49:14 --> 00:49:15
			that's a beautiful thing.
		
00:49:16 --> 00:49:17
			Other masjids,
		
00:49:17 --> 00:49:19
			offering free free health checkups
		
00:49:20 --> 00:49:21
			because you have to wait 2 or 3
		
00:49:21 --> 00:49:23
			weeks and you might not see the same
		
00:49:23 --> 00:49:26
			doctor. You know, we have these, a great
		
00:49:26 --> 00:49:27
			level of professionalism
		
00:49:27 --> 00:49:28
			in the UK.
		
00:49:29 --> 00:49:31
			Can we focus on that? Yes. Go focus
		
00:49:31 --> 00:49:33
			on the politics and it will or it
		
00:49:33 --> 00:49:34
			won't work. But in the meantime,
		
00:49:35 --> 00:49:36
			our criteria as mopmanin,
		
00:49:37 --> 00:49:38
			as believers,
		
00:49:38 --> 00:49:40
			is to serve our community. And when we
		
00:49:40 --> 00:49:42
			start doing that, that's where we're gonna make
		
00:49:42 --> 00:49:44
			the difference. But that comes through us knowing
		
00:49:44 --> 00:49:46
			the deen. And if we're still churning out
		
00:49:46 --> 00:49:49
			kids with expensive degrees and no deen,
		
00:49:49 --> 00:49:50
			well.
		
00:49:51 --> 00:49:54
			1 of my local mosques actually has has
		
00:49:54 --> 00:49:56
			the kind of facilities and space to,
		
00:49:57 --> 00:49:58
			to arrange
		
00:49:58 --> 00:50:01
			open, you know, open mornings whereby
		
00:50:02 --> 00:50:03
			pensioners come in for a cup of tea
		
00:50:03 --> 00:50:05
			and a biscuit. Just have a chat, you
		
00:50:05 --> 00:50:07
			know, just meet with each other. People who
		
00:50:07 --> 00:50:10
			come across living on their own, meeting with
		
00:50:10 --> 00:50:12
			virtually no one throughout days and days attend,
		
00:50:12 --> 00:50:14
			you know, they come to the mosque every
		
00:50:14 --> 00:50:16
			Tuesday morning, I think, you know, for a
		
00:50:16 --> 00:50:18
			couple of hours where they meet with others,
		
00:50:18 --> 00:50:19
			Zalinga, and
		
00:50:19 --> 00:50:21
			they happen to be not Muslims. And then
		
00:50:21 --> 00:50:23
			you know they disperse once they hear the
		
00:50:23 --> 00:50:25
			adhan. And now they know. They know what
		
00:50:25 --> 00:50:27
			the adhan is about. And they know what
		
00:50:27 --> 00:50:30
			it means. And they are asking well, you
		
00:50:30 --> 00:50:31
			know. Where was the chap who had such
		
00:50:31 --> 00:50:33
			a beautiful voice, you know, from last week
		
00:50:33 --> 00:50:35
			and the such. So in a way,
		
00:50:36 --> 00:50:36
			mosques
		
00:50:36 --> 00:50:38
			have that kind of potential
		
00:50:39 --> 00:50:41
			and capacity. But
		
00:50:42 --> 00:50:42
			what's what's
		
00:50:43 --> 00:50:43
			I
		
00:50:44 --> 00:50:47
			I personally always talk about in in whenever
		
00:50:47 --> 00:50:49
			I'm talking or lecturing such, especially to a
		
00:50:49 --> 00:50:50
			Muslim audience, is that
		
00:50:51 --> 00:50:52
			we need to,
		
00:50:54 --> 00:50:56
			we need to understand, I believe, the teachings
		
00:50:56 --> 00:50:59
			of the prophet far better in terms of
		
00:50:59 --> 00:51:01
			I mean, one of the things I constantly
		
00:51:01 --> 00:51:03
			say and and I'm not being, you know,
		
00:51:03 --> 00:51:05
			a a a jurist or opposing as a
		
00:51:05 --> 00:51:07
			jurist. What I, you know, when I,
		
00:51:08 --> 00:51:10
			hear the word the the concept of the
		
00:51:10 --> 00:51:11
			Ummah,
		
00:51:11 --> 00:51:12
			I personally
		
00:51:12 --> 00:51:16
			expand that to include everyone everyone because they
		
00:51:16 --> 00:51:19
			are, you know, the people whom amongst whom
		
00:51:19 --> 00:51:19
			we live.
		
00:51:20 --> 00:51:23
			Now calling upon them, inviting them, you know,
		
00:51:23 --> 00:51:26
			providing for them, being at their service and
		
00:51:26 --> 00:51:28
			as such, I think is is the way
		
00:51:28 --> 00:51:30
			in which to introduce Islam. We we have
		
00:51:30 --> 00:51:32
			we have we have the human community and
		
00:51:32 --> 00:51:34
			we have the Muslim community. And the Muslim
		
00:51:34 --> 00:51:36
			community right now needs to catch the human
		
00:51:36 --> 00:51:37
			community.
		
00:51:37 --> 00:51:40
			We've always needed to do that. But now
		
00:51:40 --> 00:51:40
			with this,
		
00:51:41 --> 00:51:43
			we circle back around to nigh nihilism.
		
00:51:44 --> 00:51:46
			Kids cutting themselves at 13 because they don't
		
00:51:46 --> 00:51:48
			know why they're alive. I was speaking to
		
00:51:48 --> 00:51:50
			a a psychologist in Turkey,
		
00:51:51 --> 00:51:53
			a child psychologist. I said, what are you
		
00:51:53 --> 00:51:55
			seeing? This is really interesting. Tell me. She
		
00:51:55 --> 00:51:57
			said, the big thing that she's hearing is,
		
00:51:57 --> 00:51:59
			I don't know why I'm alive,
		
00:51:59 --> 00:52:01
			and therefore, I don't wanna live.
		
00:52:02 --> 00:52:03
			Wow. We are there to catch that. And
		
00:52:03 --> 00:52:06
			you made me tear up then because, you
		
00:52:06 --> 00:52:07
			know, Europe has an aging population.
		
00:52:08 --> 00:52:10
			Be nice to Muslims. We'll be looking after
		
00:52:10 --> 00:52:12
			you in your old age. And, alhamdulillah, we're
		
00:52:12 --> 00:52:15
			equipped to do that. I know a wonderful
		
00:52:15 --> 00:52:17
			convert sister. She's English as can be,
		
00:52:18 --> 00:52:20
			and she she's converted to Islam, and she
		
00:52:20 --> 00:52:22
			looks after people at the end of life
		
00:52:23 --> 00:52:24
			with such care.
		
00:52:24 --> 00:52:26
			And but but you're not allowed to speak
		
00:52:26 --> 00:52:27
			to them about, do you want me to
		
00:52:27 --> 00:52:29
			speak to you about God? Would you like
		
00:52:29 --> 00:52:31
			that? You can't even and and
		
00:52:32 --> 00:52:34
			we just need to be there to catch
		
00:52:34 --> 00:52:35
			the elderly and help them. And I was
		
00:52:35 --> 00:52:37
			thinking about my grandmother who was,
		
00:52:38 --> 00:52:40
			well, I forgive her, a real racist.
		
00:52:41 --> 00:52:42
			And I thought she lived in Wembley. And
		
00:52:42 --> 00:52:45
			as Wembley was changing, I thought if that
		
00:52:45 --> 00:52:47
			old white lady is walking along a street
		
00:52:48 --> 00:52:50
			and there's all our Asian and Arab brothers
		
00:52:50 --> 00:52:52
			and sisters there, are they gonna help her?
		
00:52:52 --> 00:52:54
			Or are they gonna stick to their own?
		
00:52:55 --> 00:52:57
			That's when we're not doing our job. That's
		
00:52:57 --> 00:53:00
			when everybody has a right to resent us.
		
00:53:00 --> 00:53:01
			Yeah. Yeah.
		
00:53:02 --> 00:53:03
			Okay. I mean,
		
00:53:04 --> 00:53:05
			you've now
		
00:53:07 --> 00:53:10
			seen matters, let's just say, from various perspectives.
		
00:53:11 --> 00:53:12
			So I would suggest that you have,
		
00:53:15 --> 00:53:16
			you have an impression
		
00:53:16 --> 00:53:17
			that
		
00:53:17 --> 00:53:20
			isn't available to most people because you've seen
		
00:53:20 --> 00:53:22
			things from outside of Islam,
		
00:53:22 --> 00:53:25
			from inside of Islam. You've encountered
		
00:53:26 --> 00:53:29
			projects that are of a humanitarian nature, a
		
00:53:29 --> 00:53:31
			political nature and the such.
		
00:53:33 --> 00:53:36
			And you've also commented on what is so
		
00:53:36 --> 00:53:36
			wrong
		
00:53:37 --> 00:53:38
			with
		
00:53:38 --> 00:53:41
			with with the West, probably the world also.
		
00:53:41 --> 00:53:43
			I mean, I don't know about China and
		
00:53:43 --> 00:53:45
			Russia and such. I'm not an expert.
		
00:53:45 --> 00:53:46
			But,
		
00:53:46 --> 00:53:48
			the Western world today about
		
00:53:49 --> 00:53:50
			do you foresee
		
00:53:51 --> 00:53:53
			because of Gaza, because of this reaction
		
00:53:54 --> 00:53:55
			to Gaza, do you foresee
		
00:53:56 --> 00:53:59
			a change of a major nature? Do we
		
00:53:59 --> 00:54:01
			are we to expect,
		
00:54:02 --> 00:54:02
			a transformative
		
00:54:03 --> 00:54:06
			moment anywhere in the near future? I mean,
		
00:54:06 --> 00:54:08
			let me let me tell you what many
		
00:54:08 --> 00:54:10
			young people tell me. They say what's the
		
00:54:10 --> 00:54:12
			use of the United Nations. They tell me
		
00:54:12 --> 00:54:12
			about,
		
00:54:13 --> 00:54:16
			okay. So the ICJ case presented by South
		
00:54:16 --> 00:54:19
			Africa was absolutely fantastic to to watch. It
		
00:54:19 --> 00:54:20
			was a brilliant spectacle.
		
00:54:20 --> 00:54:24
			Spectacle of democracy. But, but okay. So what's
		
00:54:24 --> 00:54:25
			gonna happen next?
		
00:54:26 --> 00:54:29
			All of this, yet the mainstream media
		
00:54:29 --> 00:54:32
			still fails to grasp the very basics
		
00:54:33 --> 00:54:35
			of what is truly human. I mean, we
		
00:54:35 --> 00:54:38
			you know, in media, we always tell young
		
00:54:38 --> 00:54:41
			budding media professionals that it's the human angle.
		
00:54:41 --> 00:54:43
			It's the human angle. Okay. How
		
00:54:45 --> 00:54:47
			much more human can you be,
		
00:54:48 --> 00:54:50
			you know, when when when seeing what's happening
		
00:54:50 --> 00:54:52
			in Gaza? Yet,
		
00:54:53 --> 00:54:55
			you know, the failure to grasp this, to
		
00:54:55 --> 00:54:55
			understand,
		
00:54:56 --> 00:54:57
			and to reflect
		
00:54:57 --> 00:54:58
			is staggering.
		
00:55:00 --> 00:55:02
			But people are are on board. I mean,
		
00:55:02 --> 00:55:05
			they they get this. They understand this. They're
		
00:55:05 --> 00:55:07
			having the discussions amongst themselves.
		
00:55:07 --> 00:55:09
			Anas, here's the thing.
		
00:55:11 --> 00:55:12
			Gaza
		
00:55:13 --> 00:55:14
			is a cipher
		
00:55:15 --> 00:55:17
			for the confusion in the world right now.
		
00:55:18 --> 00:55:18
			And
		
00:55:19 --> 00:55:19
			Americans
		
00:55:20 --> 00:55:21
			have had a veil ripped
		
00:55:22 --> 00:55:25
			off them. They've been shaken from the reverie
		
00:55:25 --> 00:55:27
			of junk food
		
00:55:27 --> 00:55:29
			and junk telly and junk lives
		
00:55:30 --> 00:55:32
			to look and really consider
		
00:55:32 --> 00:55:33
			why are we here?
		
00:55:34 --> 00:55:36
			What is is there a purpose? These people
		
00:55:36 --> 00:55:38
			have a purpose. Stay put.
		
00:55:38 --> 00:55:39
			They have a purpose.
		
00:55:40 --> 00:55:43
			Worship Allah. They have a purpose. Look after
		
00:55:43 --> 00:55:43
			each other.
		
00:55:44 --> 00:55:45
			Am I doing that?
		
00:55:46 --> 00:55:47
			And I think that is the revolution that
		
00:55:47 --> 00:55:50
			is happening, the self reflection revolution,
		
00:55:51 --> 00:55:53
			but in light of doing things for other
		
00:55:53 --> 00:55:54
			people.
		
00:55:54 --> 00:55:56
			Because this narcissistic
		
00:55:57 --> 00:55:59
			decade that we've had, there's a great documentary.
		
00:56:00 --> 00:56:02
			Everybody please watch this called The Century of
		
00:56:02 --> 00:56:03
			the Self. Don't know if you've watched it
		
00:56:03 --> 00:56:04
			yet by Adam Curtis. I heard it. I
		
00:56:04 --> 00:56:07
			heard of it. Yeah. Genius. Right? We have
		
00:56:07 --> 00:56:09
			been convinced to look into ourselves. And once
		
00:56:09 --> 00:56:11
			I perfect myself, I'm gonna
		
00:56:12 --> 00:56:14
			be the right person to be around. And
		
00:56:14 --> 00:56:15
			in the meantime, you do nothing.
		
00:56:16 --> 00:56:18
			Well, I think that's that's been taken away.
		
00:56:18 --> 00:56:20
			And I think the big outcome is going,
		
00:56:20 --> 00:56:22
			we're in a fork in the road. I
		
00:56:22 --> 00:56:23
			can't say what the outcome is.
		
00:56:23 --> 00:56:25
			Are we going towards the end of the
		
00:56:25 --> 00:56:27
			time? Times and in our in our tradition
		
00:56:27 --> 00:56:28
			and our understanding,
		
00:56:29 --> 00:56:30
			this is going towards the Dajjal and the
		
00:56:30 --> 00:56:33
			preparation for that You Rabb, in which case
		
00:56:33 --> 00:56:34
			this fitna is small.
		
00:56:35 --> 00:56:38
			Or are we another chance for humanity to
		
00:56:38 --> 00:56:40
			build something before that ultimately comes?
		
00:56:43 --> 00:56:45
			Thank you, Lauren. That was fantastic.