Jeffrey Lang – The Quran An Atheists Perspective Night 01

Jeffrey Lang
AI: Summary ©
The speakers discuss the importance of finding a God to make them perfect and finding a God to make them perfect. They stress the importance of researching one's beliefs and avoiding assumptions in life, and emphasize the importance of suffering, loss of life, forgiveness, caring, and the natural place for oneself. They stress the importance of experiencing love, compassion, forgiveness, caring, and the natural place for oneself, and emphasize the need for regular growth in these areas. They also emphasize the importance of avoiding becoming evil and not giving back to others.
AI: Transcript ©
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I'm surprised so many of you came.

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I hope I won't disappoint you too much.

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It's nice to be at Purdue again. I

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graduated here almost Wow. 1981. That's almost 20

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years ago. Are you sure you can hear

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me okay? Even in the very

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back? Because I'm not, you know, speaking very

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loudly. I usually have to shout during these

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things.

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Well, besides, we have to tie this up

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in about an hour and a half. The

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University of Kansas is playing Saint John's tonight,

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so I have to

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Oh, is this a football game weekend?

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Yeah. Oh, okay. Wow. Somebody to watch tomorrow.

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Okay. That's why I chose this weekend, really,

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to come

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here. Alright. Well,

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today, I'm or tonight, I am hoping to

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present,

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an atheist

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interpretation

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of the Quran.

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I know it sounds strange, but

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it is true. Because the first time I

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read the Quran, I was an atheist.

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And so I'm going to try to

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recollect and to recreate,

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as best I can,

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that

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experience of reading the Quran as an atheist.

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It's,

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you know, sometimes I regret that I am

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not like most of you, that I am

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not have been born to the Muslim tradition,

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born into a Muslim family. I think that

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makes life so much easier for Muslim young

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people and even Muslim old people, such as

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myself.

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And, you know, you have a great history

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and tradition, and you know so much about

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the religion when you before you even realize

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it. Before you even pick up the Quran

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for the first time, so much of how

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you read the Quran and understand understand the

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Quran

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has been influenced by your upbringing.

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The first time I picked up the Koran,

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I wasn't even quite sure

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what it was.

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It was a gift from and I just

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picked it up. I I knew it was

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their holy scripture,

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but I really wasn't even quite sure

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who

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it was revealed through, who the author was,

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really almost nothing.

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So my perspective is sort of an innocent

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perspective.

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And so when I talk about it tonight,

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and I think it's a valuable perspective, or

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at least

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it should be a perspective that's of interest.

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Because I think when somebody new comes to

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the faith and reads the Quran and gains

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a different perspective,

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that may help us enrich all of our

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perspectives.

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Just as much as I've benefited

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from listening to

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Muslims, born Muslims, talk about their perspective on

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this religion, I hope I could contribute something

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to that dialogue.

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I'm going to be talking a little bit

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about the purpose of life because I was

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an atheist before I became a Muslim.

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Actually, that's all I'm gonna talk about tonight.

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What because that was my main

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problem when I picked up the Quran.

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I wanted to know what it had to

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say about the purpose of life. I wasn't

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expecting much,

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but it was an interesting journey nonetheless.

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And so that's what I'll be talking about

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tonight.

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My mom never got to come to Purdue

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University. My mom saw me lecture at

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several universities around this, nation.

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She saw me lecture several times about Islam.

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And she was one of my, best audiences,

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one of the best people I've ever had

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in an audience. She used to sit up

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front.

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And I could see in her eyes not

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just,

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interest, but also, a certain amount of pride.

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She was a very devout Christian, and she,

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was that till her, dying day, the day

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she died.

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But I really,

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really was loved having my mom in the

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audience, and I always miss her even now.

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I don't give really give that many lectures,

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even though I hear that you guys have

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some tapes of mine from old. I don't

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really give that many lectures, but whenever I

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am standing in front of an audience and

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I look at that front row, I still

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miss the absence of my mother there. And

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I wish you could have

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absence of my mother there.

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And I wish you could have met met

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her because she was really a wonderful,

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wonderful,

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wonderful mother and person. And I'm not just

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saying that because she's my mother, but so

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many people that knew her said the same.

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I remember when my mom died a few

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years ago, and I was at her funeral.

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1st it was one of the biggest funerals

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I've ever seen.

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And person after person who came up to

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me to express their condolences,

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expressed it in almost exactly the same way

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every time. They said, Jeff, your mom

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was a true saint.

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And they would walk up to me, and

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it would seem like they had prepared this.

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Every person that would come up would say,

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Yes, Jeff. Your mom was such a great

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lady. She was a true saint. Even my

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ex wife, who was an atheist,

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my first wife, we were married a few

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years. We got divorced while we were PhD

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students at Purdue.

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But she came up to me, and she

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told me this very same thing. She said,

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Jeff, you know, I don't believe in God,

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but, you know, I still think your mother

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was a true saint.

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For a long time in my life, my

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mom was the only person I was really

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able to love.

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She was

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my closest friend.

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She was my protector.

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She was my only real hero,

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she was a deeply religious Catholic, she was

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a dedicated nurse, she was loved by by

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all our neighbors.

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And she was the most giving and charitable

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person I ever known, I've ever known. She

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was truly a very religious, devout woman.

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She didn't wear it on her sleeve. She

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expressed it through her

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treatment of others, her behavior towards others.

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I remember I can still see my mom

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visiting the old Italian lady next door, missus

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Caltabiano.

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She was in her

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seventies. I remember this lady, all the kids

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in the neighborhood hated

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her. She was, had an extremely bad temper.

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But my mother would visit her once a

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month and go over there with a basin

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of water and a towel over her shoulder,

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and she would trim that lady old lady's

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feet, the the toenails on her feet, and

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wash her feet,

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once a month. And I remember saying to

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her, Mom, why do you do that? I

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mean, that lady is so mean. She's so

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old. She has such stinky feet. Why would

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you go over and wash her feet? And

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I remember once she said to me, son,

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if Jesus could wash the feet of others,

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so can I?

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And that's what kind of religiosity

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she had. She translated her religiosity

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into helping others.

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And to her, that was what life was

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all about. Life was about giving.

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I remember how much compassion she had for

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her patients at the hospital and how warmly

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they spoke about her when I would come

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to pick her up from work late at

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night because she worked sort of the graveyard

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trip shift. So I'd pick her up very

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late at night. And her patients used to

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stop me while I was walking out the

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hall to pull me aside and brag about

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my mother for

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usually too long.

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I remember what great mother and teacher she

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was. I remember how honest she was, and

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how she never swore or treated anyone rudely.

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My mom wasn't perfect. She used to gossip

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a little, but she was the nearest thing

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to perfection I ever knew.

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Most of all, I remember how she loved

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how much she loved her 5 sons,

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and how hard she worked to provide them

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with as normal and a happy life as

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possible,

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despite the handicap we acquire.

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And the handicap that we acquired, I'm sad

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to say, and I even hate to bring

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it up, but it's central to this lecture,

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was my father.

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I don't know what was the matter with

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my father or how he became the way

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he was,

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But my father had this deep

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inner

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rage

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and anger

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that he just really couldn't control.

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And every night,

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he would try to numb that rage and

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that anger with hard, hard drinking.

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And he usually wasn't very successful.

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His drinking made my father all the more

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volatile

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because he could be laughing and joking one

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minute, and he could fly into an angry

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rampage the next.

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And once he erupted,

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there was just no stopping him. It was

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like a thunderstorm,

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the severe thunderstorm

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that comes in over the horizon and go

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away.

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And it would take a ton of time

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and a ton of hard liquor before it

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would finally put him to rest.

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And it was really terrible.

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Living with my father was like carrying a

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box of nitroglycerin.

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You just weren't sure what was gonna set

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it off. The slightest agitation,

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the slightest shift,

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he could unexpectedly

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explode into his violence.

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And it was

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it was not easy. It was not easy

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at all.

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My 4 brothers and

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I had a frightful and uncertain childhood, but

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the worst of it, the worst of it,

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which is watching my father regularly taunt,

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threaten, and abuse

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my mother.

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When I was a little boy, I used

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to daydream about life without my father. It

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was my

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almost constant wish and daydream.

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I just wanted the violence to go away.

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I wanted not to be afraid anymore.

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I felt like I was trapped in a

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bad dream, and there just was no way

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out.

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So I prayed, and again and again to

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God to remove my father from our lives

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and to stop the pain,

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but my father was always there. And very

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early on, I began to wonder

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if God really was.

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I could not fathom

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why God would sentence

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my mom

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to lifelong punishment.

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I could not imagine what great sin she

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must have committed, or that we, her children,

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must have committed

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to deserve my father?

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I lacked the maturity to sort out those

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questions, but I certainly had enough anger and

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fear inside me to provoke them.

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I was too young to see the wisdom

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in allowing my mother

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and her children to suffer the violence and

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abuse of my father. I was too young

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to understand what God would let innocent children

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lie in bed every night,

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crying, wondering, hoping, praying that their mom will

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still be in one piece the next morning.

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I just couldn't see why God would let

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that let that be.

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I could not understand how God and his

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mercy and forgiveness

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could extend that mercy and forgiveness

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to someone like my father, with all his

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terrible failings. All I can see in my

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world was chaos and violence.

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And so when I became old enough to

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think for myself,

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it became easy for me to question the

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existence of god.

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We also lived in a very violent city.

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The violence outside was nothing compared to the

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violence inside. But the violence that was happening

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in the world around me only confirmed what

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my father already had taught me, only too

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well.

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There were the assassinations

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of the Kennedy's when I was a kid

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and Martin Luther King.

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There were race riots in cities like mine

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and burnings and lootings, to even people burned

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alive in the streets.

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Firemen used to come to to places where

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liars fires were purposely lit, and snipers used

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to be picking them off.

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Gang fights were rampant in my neighborhood. It

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seemed like we had one every couple of

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months. Sometimes kids would get shot.

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Most of the time, there was always several

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that were extremely badly injured, taken to the

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hospital. The police would show up after it

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was over so they wouldn't get hurt,

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take the bodies away, take the kids to

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the hospital.

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And of course, we also had the Vietnam

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War going on that time, that senseless war.

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And we'd see the night after night on

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a television street screen,

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young American boys being put in body bags,

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taken back to our country. And even worse,

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we'd see the Vietnamese

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civilians, and especially the children, being slaughtered

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at our own hands.

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And kids running down the street, Vietnamese children

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running down the street after a bombing, some

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of them naked, some of them on fire

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from napalm burning all over them.

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All that, all the violence in the world

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confirmed for me the lesson that I was

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already ingrained in me,

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that this world is dominated by random,

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consuming,

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undiscriminating

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violence.

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And very early on,

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I began to

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ask why, and that from a very early

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age.

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But that question became more intense for me

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as I got older and older. As I

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reached my late teenage years,

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I wondered why it had to be this

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way.

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Why did it have to be this way?

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I have 3 daughters.

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Not too long ago, I was walking with

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my wife,

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walking along, and 2 of my daughters were

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walking with me. And the youngest one, Fatin,

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was whose name means alluring.

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You know, Fatin, and my youngest daughter, my

00:13:13 --> 00:13:14

10 year old, was riding ahead of us

00:13:14 --> 00:13:16

on her bike. Then she circled around and

00:13:16 --> 00:13:18

rode by us again, going full speed.

00:13:19 --> 00:13:20

And as she was riding by, she said,

00:13:20 --> 00:13:23

I am Fatt and Lang, and I love

00:13:23 --> 00:13:24

being mean.

00:13:26 --> 00:13:27

I looked at my wife, and I said,

00:13:27 --> 00:13:29

we must be doing something right. You know?

00:13:30 --> 00:13:32

And I was walking with my daughter, Sarah,

00:13:32 --> 00:13:34

not just long long ago, because she's trying

00:13:34 --> 00:13:35

to lose a little weight. So she walks

00:13:35 --> 00:13:37

with me. I'm a I walk several miles

00:13:37 --> 00:13:39

every day. But now I come home after

00:13:39 --> 00:13:40

work, and I walk an hour with her

00:13:40 --> 00:13:42

at night. And she's, you know, she's trimming

00:13:42 --> 00:13:44

down. She wants to lose a little weight.

00:13:44 --> 00:13:46

But I'm walking along and she says, daddy,

00:13:46 --> 00:13:48

I know I have to lose a little

00:13:48 --> 00:13:50

weight, but I know I am beautiful.

00:13:52 --> 00:13:53

And that's because she feels it

00:13:55 --> 00:13:55

inside.

00:13:57 --> 00:13:58

When she says such a statement like that,

00:13:58 --> 00:14:00

or my other daughter says, I love being

00:14:00 --> 00:14:01

me,

00:14:01 --> 00:14:03

and they tell me, Tati, I think I'm

00:14:03 --> 00:14:06

beautiful. They feel that deeply inside.

00:14:06 --> 00:14:07

Something inside.

00:14:07 --> 00:14:10

It's not something it glows from within.

00:14:10 --> 00:14:12

My wife is about £35 overweight.

00:14:13 --> 00:14:15

And please don't record this. You could erase

00:14:15 --> 00:14:16

that from the table.

00:14:19 --> 00:14:20

She'll kill me, please.

00:14:21 --> 00:14:22

But she's about £35

00:14:22 --> 00:14:23

overweight,

00:14:23 --> 00:14:25

and she's 40

00:14:25 --> 00:14:27

years old now. I got her age right.

00:14:27 --> 00:14:28

She'll kill me for

00:14:28 --> 00:14:30

that as well. But she's 40, about £35

00:14:30 --> 00:14:33

overweight. But not but not too long ago,

00:14:33 --> 00:14:35

she said to me, you know, and said

00:14:35 --> 00:14:36

to all of us, hey. Look. My daughters

00:14:36 --> 00:14:38

are giving her a hard time about her

00:14:38 --> 00:14:39

weight. She said, I don't care. I know

00:14:39 --> 00:14:40

I'm

00:14:41 --> 00:14:43

beautiful. Because she's always felt that way.

00:14:43 --> 00:14:45

That's not so much

00:14:45 --> 00:14:48

an appraisal of how a person sees themselves

00:14:48 --> 00:14:48

physically.

00:14:49 --> 00:14:51

It's how they see themselves in their totality.

00:14:53 --> 00:14:54

Well,

00:14:55 --> 00:14:57

when I look at myself to this day,

00:14:57 --> 00:14:58

when I think about myself,

00:14:59 --> 00:15:00

the last word I would ever use to

00:15:00 --> 00:15:01

characterize

00:15:01 --> 00:15:02

myself

00:15:02 --> 00:15:03

is

00:15:03 --> 00:15:06

beautiful or handsome or attractive.

00:15:08 --> 00:15:10

Because after I growing up

00:15:11 --> 00:15:12

in that environment,

00:15:13 --> 00:15:16

becoming an adult, somewhere early in my life,

00:15:16 --> 00:15:18

etched upon my being, I came to see

00:15:18 --> 00:15:20

myself in a very different way.

00:15:21 --> 00:15:23

And to this day, when I'm walking along

00:15:23 --> 00:15:24

and I'm thinking about how I look to

00:15:24 --> 00:15:27

others or I just think about myself,

00:15:27 --> 00:15:28

I just see someone

00:15:29 --> 00:15:29

scarred,

00:15:32 --> 00:15:33

odd,

00:15:33 --> 00:15:34

disfigured.

00:15:35 --> 00:15:37

And I'll think about that. That's the way

00:15:37 --> 00:15:39

I'll probably perceive myself

00:15:39 --> 00:15:40

to the day I die.

00:15:43 --> 00:15:45

And I don't think we realize how much

00:15:45 --> 00:15:47

we affect our children and the way they

00:15:47 --> 00:15:48

see themselves.

00:15:49 --> 00:15:51

But it was amazing to me that there

00:15:51 --> 00:15:54

could be a God, and God could let

00:15:54 --> 00:15:56

that type of thing happen to children.

00:15:57 --> 00:15:59

My 4 brothers ended up following the same

00:15:59 --> 00:16:02

road of self destruction that my father followed.

00:16:02 --> 00:16:05

It went down the same way. All 4

00:16:05 --> 00:16:07

of them became drug addicts. 1 just recently

00:16:07 --> 00:16:08

died of alcoholism.

00:16:09 --> 00:16:11

2 just recently kicked their habits after they

00:16:11 --> 00:16:13

had had them for 25 years.

00:16:13 --> 00:16:16

Another one was a heroin addict. He had

00:16:16 --> 00:16:17

to be jailed

00:16:17 --> 00:16:19

before he could finally kick his

00:16:21 --> 00:16:22

hat. I mean, why would God put people

00:16:22 --> 00:16:24

at such a disadvantage?

00:16:25 --> 00:16:26

This bothered me.

00:16:27 --> 00:16:29

Why did God create such a perfect and

00:16:29 --> 00:16:31

violent world? I wondered.

00:16:31 --> 00:16:33

Why didn't he just put us into heaven

00:16:33 --> 00:16:35

in first in the from the very first

00:16:35 --> 00:16:37

and keep us there

00:16:37 --> 00:16:38

and keep us there?

00:16:39 --> 00:16:41

Why did he make us so criminally inclined,

00:16:41 --> 00:16:43

so corruptible, so rebellious,

00:16:44 --> 00:16:45

and destructive, and self destructive.

00:16:46 --> 00:16:47

I mean, why would he do that, I

00:16:47 --> 00:16:48

thought.

00:16:48 --> 00:16:50

Couldn't he make a more perfect creature? Couldn't

00:16:50 --> 00:16:52

he just make us angels?

00:16:52 --> 00:16:55

I mean, if there exist angels, and I

00:16:55 --> 00:16:56

was taught, and I grew up in the

00:16:56 --> 00:16:59

Catholic faith that there is, why couldn't he

00:16:59 --> 00:17:00

make us like that?

00:17:02 --> 00:17:04

Why did he make us worse than they

00:17:04 --> 00:17:06

if he could create better?

00:17:07 --> 00:17:09

What? Did he just slip up? It got

00:17:09 --> 00:17:10

out of his control?

00:17:10 --> 00:17:12

I was told that he was omnipotent.

00:17:13 --> 00:17:14

How could that

00:17:16 --> 00:17:16

happen?

00:17:18 --> 00:17:19

If he wants us to submit to his

00:17:19 --> 00:17:21

will, why didn't he just make us submit

00:17:21 --> 00:17:23

to his will from the beginning?

00:17:26 --> 00:17:28

It's that simple. Why didn't he make us

00:17:28 --> 00:17:29

angels

00:17:29 --> 00:17:31

if he has it within his power?

00:17:32 --> 00:17:34

Why does he let the strong torture and

00:17:34 --> 00:17:35

oppress the weak?

00:17:36 --> 00:17:38

Why does he let blameless children be scarred

00:17:38 --> 00:17:40

so deeply and indelibly by the violence of

00:17:40 --> 00:17:41

their

00:17:41 --> 00:17:43

childhood? And many and trust me, I'm not

00:17:43 --> 00:17:46

feeling sorry for myself. There's tons of kids,

00:17:46 --> 00:17:48

tons of kids that suffer much worse than

00:17:48 --> 00:17:50

I did when I was a child.

00:17:52 --> 00:17:54

I wanted to know why,

00:17:54 --> 00:17:57

and I demanded an answer. And I didn't

00:17:57 --> 00:17:59

care where that answer came from. I tell

00:17:59 --> 00:18:00

you the truth, I didn't care if that

00:18:00 --> 00:18:02

answer came from heaven or if it came

00:18:02 --> 00:18:04

from *. I didn't care if it came

00:18:04 --> 00:18:07

from an angel or the devil himself. I

00:18:07 --> 00:18:09

didn't care if it came from the pope

00:18:09 --> 00:18:10

or Charles Manson.

00:18:11 --> 00:18:14

I just wanted an answer. And I just

00:18:14 --> 00:18:16

wanted to know the truth.

00:18:20 --> 00:18:22

I used to argue with my mother when

00:18:22 --> 00:18:23

I became an atheist at 16.

00:18:24 --> 00:18:27

I'd argue. My mom didn't argue. Somehow, she

00:18:28 --> 00:18:30

had this strained confidence that someday I would

00:18:30 --> 00:18:32

believe in God again. I used to ask

00:18:32 --> 00:18:34

her, What makes you think that, mom?

00:18:34 --> 00:18:36

And as usual, she would pull out one

00:18:36 --> 00:18:37

of her old sayings she learned from her

00:18:38 --> 00:18:40

grandmother. As my grandmother always said, Jeff, the

00:18:40 --> 00:18:42

way the twig is bent, the tree will

00:18:42 --> 00:18:43

grow.

00:18:43 --> 00:18:45

I used to shake my head and think,

00:18:45 --> 00:18:47

Wow, my mom, she's Don Quixote.

00:18:48 --> 00:18:50

She's living an illusion.

00:18:52 --> 00:18:54

I told her I had 3 main problems

00:18:54 --> 00:18:56

with religion. Number one, why would God give

00:18:56 --> 00:18:59

us reason if our reason conflicts with faith?

00:19:00 --> 00:19:02

See, when we think about God, and start

00:19:02 --> 00:19:06

asking questions about god, that naturally leads to

00:19:06 --> 00:19:07

impossible questions, irreconcilable

00:19:08 --> 00:19:08

issues.

00:19:10 --> 00:19:12

The dogmas that we're taught to believe in

00:19:12 --> 00:19:14

just don't make sense, I told her. Why

00:19:14 --> 00:19:17

would god create us to believe in these

00:19:17 --> 00:19:18

things if they go against reason?

00:19:21 --> 00:19:23

Or in the first place, why give us

00:19:23 --> 00:19:26

reason anyway if reason leads to these contradictions?

00:19:26 --> 00:19:28

Makes it hard for us to believe in

00:19:28 --> 00:19:28

god.

00:19:29 --> 00:19:31

Why does he give us choice, the ability

00:19:31 --> 00:19:32

to choose?

00:19:33 --> 00:19:34

Just make us perfect.

00:19:36 --> 00:19:37

Why does he allow us to choose to

00:19:37 --> 00:19:38

become evil?

00:19:39 --> 00:19:41

Just didn't make sense, I said to her,

00:19:41 --> 00:19:42

if he wants us to submit to his

00:19:42 --> 00:19:43

will.

00:19:44 --> 00:19:46

And most of all, why does he allow

00:19:46 --> 00:19:48

us to suffer?

00:19:49 --> 00:19:51

Couldn't he could we have bypassed the suffering?

00:19:52 --> 00:19:53

Popped us into heaven from the first?

00:19:56 --> 00:19:57

In any case,

00:19:57 --> 00:19:59

I became an avowed atheist

00:19:59 --> 00:20:02

when I was in my middle teenage years.

00:20:03 --> 00:20:05

I can't remember now exactly when, 17, 18,

00:20:06 --> 00:20:07

something like that.

00:20:08 --> 00:20:09

No. I guess I was 16,

00:20:09 --> 00:20:12

16 years old. I remember religion class where

00:20:12 --> 00:20:14

I declared it to the class.

00:20:16 --> 00:20:19

But that's it. I could not see what

00:20:19 --> 00:20:21

is the purpose of

00:20:22 --> 00:20:23

life.

00:20:23 --> 00:20:25

And I never found that out, so I

00:20:25 --> 00:20:27

guess I'll see you next time.

00:20:30 --> 00:20:31

It's good talking to you. Good luck. Good

00:20:31 --> 00:20:34

night. Gotta go catch a basketball game.

00:20:36 --> 00:20:36

No.

00:20:37 --> 00:20:39

I was an atheist for about 12 years.

00:20:39 --> 00:20:42

I it's not doesn't mean I wasn't ever

00:20:42 --> 00:20:43

I became

00:20:44 --> 00:20:45

in religion.

00:20:45 --> 00:20:47

I was always fascinated by religion.

00:20:48 --> 00:20:48

You know how

00:20:49 --> 00:20:53

ex alcoholics are fascinated about studies about alcoholism,

00:20:53 --> 00:20:55

and they become, you know, obsessed with studying

00:20:55 --> 00:20:58

alcoholism. Or, you know, you notice how psychiatrists

00:20:58 --> 00:21:01

are usually sort of crazy themselves. You

00:21:02 --> 00:21:02

know?

00:21:03 --> 00:21:04

Well, it's true.

00:21:05 --> 00:21:07

Most psychiatrists. Wow. But,

00:21:08 --> 00:21:09

you know, most people that have been injured

00:21:09 --> 00:21:12

or harmed by something become it becomes their

00:21:12 --> 00:21:12

obsession.

00:21:13 --> 00:21:14

So I was always fascinated by

00:21:15 --> 00:21:17

religion. You know, when I at Purdue University,

00:21:17 --> 00:21:19

especially when I was here, there were so

00:21:19 --> 00:21:21

many different cultures, so many different religious perspectives.

00:21:22 --> 00:21:24

I was in heaven, or my own heaven,

00:21:24 --> 00:21:26

you know. I would talk to kids on

00:21:26 --> 00:21:29

campus about their different religious beliefs. There was

00:21:29 --> 00:21:31

a Muslim lady in our I remember on

00:21:31 --> 00:21:33

I was right in this building over here,

00:21:34 --> 00:21:35

the, tall one with the that you could

00:21:35 --> 00:21:36

walk underneath.

00:21:37 --> 00:21:38

What's the name of it? The Math Science

00:21:38 --> 00:21:40

Center or something? Yeah. It was right over

00:21:40 --> 00:21:41

here, and there was a lady on my

00:21:41 --> 00:21:43

floor. I think it was the 7th floor.

00:21:43 --> 00:21:44

She was a Muslim lady. I don't know

00:21:44 --> 00:21:46

where from. Dressed in black and everything. And

00:21:46 --> 00:21:48

I saw her walking out in the hall

00:21:48 --> 00:21:49

one day. Sure enough, she came in and

00:21:49 --> 00:21:52

started asking me for some help in some

00:21:52 --> 00:21:54

mathematics problems. Professor Perlis, I don't know if

00:21:54 --> 00:21:56

he's still here, sent her to me because

00:21:56 --> 00:21:58

I was pretty good in,

00:21:58 --> 00:21:58

commutative

00:21:59 --> 00:22:01

So she came, and I was helping her

00:22:01 --> 00:22:03

and things like that. In the process, I

00:22:03 --> 00:22:05

began asking her questions about her religion. And,

00:22:05 --> 00:22:07

you know, we started to develop this friendship

00:22:07 --> 00:22:08

and everything, and then she

00:22:08 --> 00:22:10

refused to see me.

00:22:11 --> 00:22:11

But

00:22:12 --> 00:22:13

but

00:22:13 --> 00:22:16

but I was, you know that almost killed

00:22:16 --> 00:22:18

me. I went, what? What's going on here?

00:22:18 --> 00:22:19

But I was fascinated

00:22:20 --> 00:22:20

by

00:22:21 --> 00:22:23

different people's religious perspective perspectives.

00:22:24 --> 00:22:26

Not that I was searching.

00:22:26 --> 00:22:27

You know, usually when I talk to people,

00:22:27 --> 00:22:30

I became ever more confirmed of my disbelief

00:22:30 --> 00:22:31

in god.

00:22:31 --> 00:22:33

But it's it fascinated me.

00:22:35 --> 00:22:37

When I graduated here and went to San

00:22:37 --> 00:22:37

Francisco,

00:22:39 --> 00:22:42

I met some more, Muslims and other faith

00:22:42 --> 00:22:44

peoples of other faiths as well. But I

00:22:44 --> 00:22:46

really became very close with one Muslim family

00:22:46 --> 00:22:47

in particular.

00:22:48 --> 00:22:49

And one time they gave me,

00:22:50 --> 00:22:52

the Quran as a gift. After I badgered

00:22:52 --> 00:22:54

them with my questions long enough, they

00:22:55 --> 00:22:56

they just sort of got fed up with

00:22:56 --> 00:22:57

me, I think.

00:22:58 --> 00:22:58

And they

00:22:59 --> 00:23:00

and they gave me a copy of the

00:23:00 --> 00:23:00

Quran.

00:23:01 --> 00:23:03

And at first, I thought, what? Do they

00:23:03 --> 00:23:06

wanna convert me? I mean, what's going on

00:23:06 --> 00:23:07

here?

00:23:07 --> 00:23:09

But then I realized that it was an

00:23:09 --> 00:23:11

innocent enough gesture. I had been asking them

00:23:11 --> 00:23:13

a lot of questions, and they apparently thought

00:23:13 --> 00:23:13

that

00:23:14 --> 00:23:16

they were not up to my questions. And

00:23:16 --> 00:23:18

maybe, as a matter of fact,

00:23:18 --> 00:23:21

eventually, they explicitly told me that maybe

00:23:21 --> 00:23:22

I could find

00:23:22 --> 00:23:25

better answers here as to as far as

00:23:25 --> 00:23:26

what their faith represents

00:23:27 --> 00:23:29

concerning the questions I was asking them. The

00:23:29 --> 00:23:31

usual question, why does God let us suffer?

00:23:31 --> 00:23:33

Why doesn't he just pop us into heaven?

00:23:33 --> 00:23:34

Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

00:23:37 --> 00:23:38

Well, about 4 or 5 days after they

00:23:38 --> 00:23:40

gave it to me, I had run out

00:23:40 --> 00:23:41

of reading material just by coincidence.

00:23:42 --> 00:23:43

And I had nothing to read that night,

00:23:44 --> 00:23:45

and I had no television in my

00:23:46 --> 00:23:47

apartment in San Francisco.

00:23:48 --> 00:23:49

And so

00:23:49 --> 00:23:50

I,

00:23:51 --> 00:23:53

looked to my left. I remember sitting on

00:23:53 --> 00:23:56

my couch, and on the table next to

00:23:56 --> 00:23:58

me, the end table, was the copy of

00:23:58 --> 00:23:58

the Quran.

00:23:59 --> 00:24:00

And so I thought, oh, well,

00:24:01 --> 00:24:03

I'll pick it up and read it.

00:24:03 --> 00:24:05

And so I did, and I began to

00:24:05 --> 00:24:06

read it.

00:24:06 --> 00:24:09

And I found it in a very intriguing

00:24:09 --> 00:24:10

book.

00:24:12 --> 00:24:14

And I picked it up, and I read

00:24:14 --> 00:24:15

the first seven verses,

00:24:16 --> 00:24:18

which are essentially a prayer for guidance.

00:24:19 --> 00:24:21

You know, it sort of teaches you a

00:24:21 --> 00:24:22

prayer for guidance.

00:24:23 --> 00:24:24

In the name of god, the most merciful,

00:24:24 --> 00:24:25

compassionate,

00:24:26 --> 00:24:29

creator of ruler of all worlds, master of

00:24:29 --> 00:24:30

the day of judgment, to you alone we,

00:24:31 --> 00:24:33

seek to you alone we pray, and you

00:24:33 --> 00:24:35

alone we seek. Show us a straight path,

00:24:35 --> 00:24:37

etcetera, etcetera. You know, I thought,

00:24:38 --> 00:24:40

prayer, fitting way to begin a book. And

00:24:40 --> 00:24:41

then I turned to the next

00:24:42 --> 00:24:44

surah, or I'll use chapter.

00:24:44 --> 00:24:46

I'll call it chapter for now. I turned

00:24:46 --> 00:24:48

to the next chapter of the Quran. Then

00:24:48 --> 00:24:49

it begins, and it says,

00:24:50 --> 00:24:51

that is the book.

00:24:52 --> 00:24:54

It begins alef, lam, meem. Let me skip

00:24:54 --> 00:24:56

that right now. There are 3 Arabic symbols

00:24:56 --> 00:24:57

letters.

00:24:57 --> 00:25:00

Aleph, Lam, Meem. That is the book

00:25:00 --> 00:25:03

wherein no doubt is guidance.

00:25:04 --> 00:25:05

And of course, I just realized I had

00:25:05 --> 00:25:10

just prayed for guidance, or unknowingly, you know,

00:25:10 --> 00:25:11

not intentionally.

00:25:11 --> 00:25:13

Then I read this next line, and it

00:25:13 --> 00:25:15

says, that is the book. We're in no

00:25:15 --> 00:25:18

doubt is guidance is the guidance.

00:25:18 --> 00:25:20

And I'm looking at the book, and I'm

00:25:20 --> 00:25:21

thinking to myself,

00:25:22 --> 00:25:24

you know, you mean this is the answer

00:25:24 --> 00:25:26

to this prayer I just said? And I

00:25:26 --> 00:25:27

look at what it says in front of

00:25:27 --> 00:25:29

me, and it says, that is the book.

00:25:30 --> 00:25:32

I look up to my thinking to myself,

00:25:32 --> 00:25:34

this is the book, that is the book.

00:25:34 --> 00:25:34

And

00:25:36 --> 00:25:38

it startled me, you know, because from that

00:25:38 --> 00:25:39

point on, on, the entire Quran

00:25:40 --> 00:25:43

addresses the reader as if it's God addressing

00:25:43 --> 00:25:45

the person reading the book,

00:25:46 --> 00:25:47

speaking to him directly.

00:25:48 --> 00:25:49

I thought, what an ingenious

00:25:50 --> 00:25:51

author this is.

00:25:51 --> 00:25:53

He writes a revelation.

00:25:54 --> 00:25:56

And instead of talking about a history

00:25:56 --> 00:25:58

or even a biography,

00:25:58 --> 00:26:00

it's a personal address

00:26:00 --> 00:26:01

from

00:26:01 --> 00:26:02

God

00:26:02 --> 00:26:04

to the reader. I

00:26:04 --> 00:26:07

thought, it's like the Ten Commandments, even more

00:26:07 --> 00:26:10

personal than that, expanded to textual form, you

00:26:10 --> 00:26:11

know, to a long text.

00:26:12 --> 00:26:15

I thought, what a clever genius this author

00:26:15 --> 00:26:15

was.

00:26:16 --> 00:26:18

It's supposed to be a revelation from god.

00:26:18 --> 00:26:20

You read it. It's God talking to the

00:26:20 --> 00:26:21

reader.

00:26:23 --> 00:26:25

As I read on, I became more impressed

00:26:25 --> 00:26:25

with the author.

00:26:26 --> 00:26:27

And at that point, I really didn't even

00:26:27 --> 00:26:30

know who was who even people who didn't

00:26:30 --> 00:26:32

believe in Islam claimed to be the author.

00:26:32 --> 00:26:35

Although I certainly began asking, right, as soon

00:26:35 --> 00:26:36

as possible and

00:26:37 --> 00:26:39

starting to read about this religion and its

00:26:39 --> 00:26:41

scripture as and as I was reading through

00:26:41 --> 00:26:42

the Quran,

00:26:42 --> 00:26:44

I really became obsessed by it and really

00:26:44 --> 00:26:47

just threw myself into studying this.

00:26:48 --> 00:26:50

And this it amazed me because it would

00:26:50 --> 00:26:52

constantly sort of talk to you personally.

00:26:53 --> 00:26:55

And it would include intriguing things that really

00:26:55 --> 00:26:58

caught my interest. Like, I remember reading the

00:26:58 --> 00:27:00

verse I think it's the 25th verse of

00:27:00 --> 00:27:02

that second chapter. I'm hardly into the Quran.

00:27:02 --> 00:27:04

And I come up to the 25th verse,

00:27:04 --> 00:27:06

and it said it gives this very sort

00:27:06 --> 00:27:08

of concrete description of paradise,

00:27:09 --> 00:27:11

of heaven and the hereafter.

00:27:12 --> 00:27:15

And it talks about rivers running underneath and,

00:27:15 --> 00:27:18

you know, beautiful shade and things like that.

00:27:18 --> 00:27:20

And I'm thinking, oh, come on. This is

00:27:21 --> 00:27:22

too too concrete. I could see how this

00:27:22 --> 00:27:25

would appeal to 7th century Arabian mentality.

00:27:26 --> 00:27:27

But, you know, if a guy was from

00:27:27 --> 00:27:30

Alaska and he was reading this, you know,

00:27:30 --> 00:27:32

he would like warm, sandy beaches,

00:27:32 --> 00:27:34

then cool shade, you know? And he would

00:27:34 --> 00:27:35

like, you know,

00:27:36 --> 00:27:37

bikini clad

00:27:37 --> 00:27:38

supermodels

00:27:38 --> 00:27:40

than, you know, whatever. Like, you know, to

00:27:40 --> 00:27:42

what the Quran described.

00:27:43 --> 00:27:44

But then I go to the right I

00:27:44 --> 00:27:46

just you know, I started to think to

00:27:46 --> 00:27:48

myself, oh, this author wasn't so clever. And

00:27:48 --> 00:27:50

I go to the next verse, and it

00:27:50 --> 00:27:52

says, and God does not disdain

00:27:52 --> 00:27:53

from using

00:27:53 --> 00:27:55

any kind of parable,

00:27:55 --> 00:27:57

even if it is of a gnat to

00:27:57 --> 00:27:58

get his point across.

00:28:00 --> 00:28:02

See, I just read this verse that I

00:28:02 --> 00:28:04

took very concretely, and the next one says,

00:28:04 --> 00:28:06

oh, don't take every statement in this, you

00:28:06 --> 00:28:09

know, in the Quran so concretely.

00:28:10 --> 00:28:11

You know what? It says, God does not

00:28:11 --> 00:28:12

disdain to use a parable,

00:28:13 --> 00:28:15

a symbolic statement to get his point across.

00:28:17 --> 00:28:20

I thought, man, this guy who wrote this

00:28:20 --> 00:28:20

Quran

00:28:21 --> 00:28:21

is brilliant.

00:28:22 --> 00:28:24

You know, he sort of addresses people on

00:28:24 --> 00:28:27

one level, and then he knows that there's

00:28:27 --> 00:28:30

gonna be more, you know, sneakier, trickier people

00:28:30 --> 00:28:32

reading it. And so he catches them in

00:28:32 --> 00:28:34

the next verse and says, hey, you, you

00:28:34 --> 00:28:37

kinda skeptical person. I mean, don't think, you

00:28:37 --> 00:28:39

know god does not disdain

00:28:40 --> 00:28:42

to cite parables in order to get it,

00:28:42 --> 00:28:44

you know, in order to catch your imagination,

00:28:44 --> 00:28:45

even if it is of a

00:28:46 --> 00:28:48

gnat. You know? I thought, brilliant.

00:28:50 --> 00:28:52

The first 29 verses of that second chapter,

00:28:53 --> 00:28:55

beginning of the Quran, sort of describe its

00:28:55 --> 00:28:56

audience.

00:28:56 --> 00:28:58

You know, there are the

00:28:58 --> 00:29:00

believers, the people who have a natural so

00:29:00 --> 00:29:02

not natural, but who believe in God and

00:29:02 --> 00:29:05

are sincere and it says that this Quran

00:29:05 --> 00:29:07

will be of great benefit to them and

00:29:07 --> 00:29:08

then it talks about the people who will

00:29:08 --> 00:29:10

not benefit at all. The disc, the people

00:29:10 --> 00:29:13

who just rejected out of hand are completely

00:29:13 --> 00:29:15

closed minded, and the Quran dismisses them in

00:29:15 --> 00:29:17

one one verse. Talks about them in 1

00:29:17 --> 00:29:19

verse, dismisses them in 1 verse. They're gonna

00:29:19 --> 00:29:21

not gain from this at all. And then

00:29:21 --> 00:29:23

it talks about the people on the fence,

00:29:24 --> 00:29:25

sort of in the middle,

00:29:25 --> 00:29:27

who waver between belief and disbelief.

00:29:28 --> 00:29:30

And it says how, you know, they could

00:29:30 --> 00:29:32

benefit, but at the but they have to

00:29:32 --> 00:29:33

be sincere, and they have to be open

00:29:33 --> 00:29:34

minded, etcetera.

00:29:35 --> 00:29:35

And I'm thinking,

00:29:36 --> 00:29:38

you know, what a modern way to begin

00:29:38 --> 00:29:39

a text,

00:29:39 --> 00:29:42

you know, because it describes its audience, talks

00:29:42 --> 00:29:44

about the prerequisites that gain from this, who

00:29:44 --> 00:29:47

will gain from it, who will not, sort

00:29:47 --> 00:29:49

of the way we write textbooks nowadays. Like,

00:29:49 --> 00:29:51

if I write a math text, I say,

00:29:51 --> 00:29:53

well, this book is appropriate for freshmen and

00:29:53 --> 00:29:55

sophomores, but it's also even appropriate for seniors

00:29:55 --> 00:29:57

in high school if they have this and

00:29:57 --> 00:29:59

this background, and so forth. But for, you

00:29:59 --> 00:30:01

know, high school, you know, younger than that,

00:30:01 --> 00:30:03

students with a lesser background won't won't be

00:30:03 --> 00:30:05

able to benefit from this. And I thought,

00:30:05 --> 00:30:07

oh, what a brilliant way to begin this

00:30:07 --> 00:30:10

scripture. It's very modern in in so many

00:30:10 --> 00:30:10

ways.

00:30:11 --> 00:30:12

Okay.

00:30:12 --> 00:30:14

So I was impressed by the author. That's

00:30:14 --> 00:30:15

the most important point I'm trying to make.

00:30:15 --> 00:30:17

He impressed me right from the start.

00:30:19 --> 00:30:23

And I was more I quickly became very

00:30:23 --> 00:30:25

intrigued by the author. I wanted to understand

00:30:25 --> 00:30:28

him better. I was in awe of what

00:30:28 --> 00:30:31

I thought was his mind, his brilliance.

00:30:32 --> 00:30:35

Then I come, naturally enough after the introduction,

00:30:36 --> 00:30:39

to the 30th verse of the 2nd Sura.

00:30:39 --> 00:30:42

And it begins the story of man.

00:30:43 --> 00:30:43

Now,

00:30:44 --> 00:30:46

some people take that as history. I personally

00:30:46 --> 00:30:48

took it as an allegory,

00:30:48 --> 00:30:49

as a symbolic story.

00:30:51 --> 00:30:53

You know, from my background, that was a

00:30:53 --> 00:30:56

natural way to read it, especially because of

00:30:56 --> 00:30:58

internal things inside that story and from other

00:30:58 --> 00:31:00

verses in the Quran that I would later

00:31:00 --> 00:31:03

read that sort of confirm me confirm my

00:31:03 --> 00:31:04

belief in that.

00:31:04 --> 00:31:06

So I took it as primarily symbolic. And

00:31:06 --> 00:31:09

I was looking to read it to gain

00:31:09 --> 00:31:10

to understand meaning,

00:31:11 --> 00:31:12

to gain some meaning about what the author

00:31:12 --> 00:31:15

had to say about the purpose of life.

00:31:15 --> 00:31:17

But regardless how you take it, I think

00:31:17 --> 00:31:18

you're gonna come to more or

00:31:19 --> 00:31:20

less similar conclusions.

00:31:21 --> 00:31:23

Okay. So here I am, I turn to

00:31:23 --> 00:31:24

the story of man,

00:31:25 --> 00:31:25

and I

00:31:26 --> 00:31:27

read the 30th,

00:31:28 --> 00:31:30

verse of the 2nd Sura that begins that

00:31:30 --> 00:31:32

story. And I look down at it,

00:31:33 --> 00:31:35

and I read through that. I read that

00:31:35 --> 00:31:38

one. And then the story continues up till

00:31:38 --> 00:31:39

the, I think, the 39th,

00:31:40 --> 00:31:42

verse, very short introduction.

00:31:43 --> 00:31:45

I read through it once, and it just

00:31:45 --> 00:31:47

didn't sound right because I was familiar with

00:31:47 --> 00:31:49

this story. You could read it in the

00:31:49 --> 00:31:50

Bible.

00:31:50 --> 00:31:53

So I read it again and again, 2

00:31:53 --> 00:31:55

or 3 times, and I realized something is

00:31:55 --> 00:31:57

really strange here. The author seems to have

00:31:57 --> 00:31:59

missed the entire point and purpose of the

00:31:59 --> 00:32:00

story.

00:32:00 --> 00:32:03

I mean, his permuted details, he seems to

00:32:03 --> 00:32:05

have missed the the main point of the

00:32:05 --> 00:32:05

story.

00:32:06 --> 00:32:08

And I began to wonder if he he

00:32:08 --> 00:32:09

just never heard it right.

00:32:11 --> 00:32:13

But on the other hand, there seemed to

00:32:13 --> 00:32:14

be something underneath the surface here that he

00:32:14 --> 00:32:17

was trying to say that seemed very intriguing.

00:32:17 --> 00:32:19

So I decided finally to go back and

00:32:19 --> 00:32:20

read it very carefully,

00:32:21 --> 00:32:23

line by line, verse by verse, and give

00:32:23 --> 00:32:25

him doubt, give it a true, honest reading,

00:32:25 --> 00:32:25

and see what it had to say, because

00:32:25 --> 00:32:25

it intrigued me. And I read the 30th

00:32:25 --> 00:32:25

verse of the 2nd Sura, and here's the

00:32:25 --> 00:32:26

way it goes. And it says,

00:32:31 --> 00:32:31

Behold,

00:32:32 --> 00:32:35

and here's the way it goes. And it

00:32:35 --> 00:32:38

says, behold, your Lord said to the angels,

00:32:38 --> 00:32:39

I am going to place

00:32:40 --> 00:32:42

a representative of mine on earth, a vicerend,

00:32:43 --> 00:32:44

a representative on

00:32:44 --> 00:32:46

earth, representative of God.

00:32:47 --> 00:32:49

And they said, the angels,

00:32:50 --> 00:32:52

will you place therein 1 who will spread

00:32:52 --> 00:32:53

corruption and shed blood

00:32:54 --> 00:32:56

while we celebrate your praises and glorify your

00:32:56 --> 00:32:57

holiness?

00:32:58 --> 00:32:59

And he

00:32:59 --> 00:33:02

said, truly, I know what you do not

00:33:02 --> 00:33:02

know.

00:33:03 --> 00:33:05

I looked at that verse

00:33:05 --> 00:33:08

and I just felt kinda like

00:33:09 --> 00:33:10

a ting not more than a tingle,

00:33:11 --> 00:33:14

you know, like a coldness come over me.

00:33:14 --> 00:33:16

You know, I felt like somebody was in

00:33:16 --> 00:33:17

the room.

00:33:18 --> 00:33:20

And I read it again, and it says,

00:33:20 --> 00:33:22

behold, your lord said to the angels, I'm

00:33:22 --> 00:33:24

going to place a vice friend, a representative

00:33:24 --> 00:33:26

of mine on earth.

00:33:27 --> 00:33:29

I thought, no, no, you got it all

00:33:29 --> 00:33:29

wrong.

00:33:30 --> 00:33:32

Because here the author is saying,

00:33:32 --> 00:33:34

behold, your lord said to the angels, I'm

00:33:34 --> 00:33:36

going to place man apparently on earth as

00:33:36 --> 00:33:37

my representative.

00:33:38 --> 00:33:40

I thought, no, that's not why you're putting

00:33:40 --> 00:33:41

man on earth.

00:33:41 --> 00:33:43

You're putting him there as a punishment.

00:33:44 --> 00:33:46

He sins, and you punish him. You didn't

00:33:46 --> 00:33:48

create him from the start to put him

00:33:48 --> 00:33:49

on earth as your representative.

00:33:50 --> 00:33:52

You put him there to punish him.

00:33:53 --> 00:33:54

But that's not what it says.

00:33:55 --> 00:33:58

Long before man, Adam, and Eve even appear

00:33:58 --> 00:33:59

on a scene, it says, I'm going to

00:33:59 --> 00:34:00

place him there

00:34:01 --> 00:34:02

on earth as my representative.

00:34:03 --> 00:34:05

I thought, no, no, that's

00:34:05 --> 00:34:06

entirely wrong.

00:34:07 --> 00:34:08

And then I read the next verse, and

00:34:08 --> 00:34:10

that one was the one that hooked me.

00:34:10 --> 00:34:12

Because then the angels say because up to

00:34:12 --> 00:34:14

that point, I thought, does he really mean

00:34:14 --> 00:34:15

what he's saying? I mean, is he really

00:34:15 --> 00:34:17

saying that he's not putting them there as

00:34:17 --> 00:34:18

a punishment, but,

00:34:18 --> 00:34:19

you know, to represent

00:34:20 --> 00:34:23

him? Is he giving him this positive appraisal

00:34:23 --> 00:34:25

of mankind right from the start? And then

00:34:25 --> 00:34:26

like I said, the rest of that verse

00:34:26 --> 00:34:27

goes, they said,

00:34:28 --> 00:34:30

will you place therein 1 who will spread

00:34:30 --> 00:34:31

corruption and shed blood?

00:34:32 --> 00:34:34

The angels are saying this.

00:34:34 --> 00:34:37

While we, the angels, celebrate your praises and

00:34:37 --> 00:34:38

glorify you?

00:34:39 --> 00:34:42

I looked at that and said, that's my

00:34:42 --> 00:34:43

question.

00:34:45 --> 00:34:48

Right? Because the angels are raising a natural

00:34:49 --> 00:34:50

objection.

00:34:51 --> 00:34:53

Will you place her in one who will

00:34:53 --> 00:34:54

spread corruption and shed blood?

00:34:55 --> 00:34:57

God just said, I'm gonna put man there

00:34:57 --> 00:34:58

to represent

00:34:59 --> 00:35:01

me. And the angels naturally say,

00:35:01 --> 00:35:02

why?

00:35:03 --> 00:35:04

This creature,

00:35:04 --> 00:35:06

this rebellious

00:35:06 --> 00:35:06

being,

00:35:07 --> 00:35:10

this creature who spreads corruption and sheds much

00:35:10 --> 00:35:10

blood,

00:35:11 --> 00:35:13

you're gonna create him and put him on

00:35:13 --> 00:35:14

earth

00:35:14 --> 00:35:15

and his progeny?

00:35:16 --> 00:35:17

While what? While

00:35:17 --> 00:35:21

we celebrate your praises and glorify your holiness?

00:35:22 --> 00:35:24

Why put this creature on Earth? Why even

00:35:24 --> 00:35:26

make them in the 1st place

00:35:27 --> 00:35:28

when you could create us,

00:35:29 --> 00:35:30

the angels,

00:35:31 --> 00:35:33

who are perfectly submissive to your will,

00:35:33 --> 00:35:35

who do exactly what you want of us,

00:35:36 --> 00:35:38

who only glorify you and praise you?

00:35:39 --> 00:35:40

Why create this being?

00:35:41 --> 00:35:44

Why create them in the 1st place? Why

00:35:44 --> 00:35:46

create this being who sheds spreads corruption and

00:35:46 --> 00:35:47

sheds much blood?

00:35:49 --> 00:35:50

It's a natural question.

00:35:50 --> 00:35:52

It's my question,

00:35:52 --> 00:35:54

the atheist question.

00:35:55 --> 00:35:56

I thought the author was trying to play

00:35:56 --> 00:35:57

with

00:35:57 --> 00:36:00

me, play with my emotions, manipulate the story

00:36:00 --> 00:36:00

just

00:36:01 --> 00:36:03

to agitate me.

00:36:04 --> 00:36:05

I said it right there with the angels.

00:36:05 --> 00:36:08

Yes. Why create this creature when you create

00:36:08 --> 00:36:08

angels?

00:36:10 --> 00:36:12

And notice where the question is coming from.

00:36:12 --> 00:36:15

It's coming from heaven. It's being asked in

00:36:15 --> 00:36:15

heaven,

00:36:17 --> 00:36:19

which gives the question all the more force.

00:36:19 --> 00:36:22

Because why create this creature with his criminal

00:36:22 --> 00:36:23

inclinations,

00:36:23 --> 00:36:24

then put him in

00:36:32 --> 00:36:34

unleash him in and unleash him in that

00:36:34 --> 00:36:37

environment where he could pursue his worst criminal

00:36:37 --> 00:36:38

inclinations.

00:36:41 --> 00:36:41

He just

00:36:42 --> 00:36:43

got to get you.

00:36:45 --> 00:36:47

And when I read that,

00:36:47 --> 00:36:49

I was almost furious.

00:36:50 --> 00:36:51

Yes. Why?

00:36:51 --> 00:36:52

Why do that?

00:36:52 --> 00:36:54

And then the rest of that verse goes,

00:36:54 --> 00:36:57

and here's God's answer to the angel's question.

00:36:57 --> 00:36:58

Truly I know

00:36:59 --> 00:37:00

what you do not know.

00:37:01 --> 00:37:03

In modern parlance,

00:37:03 --> 00:37:04

that would be

00:37:05 --> 00:37:07

yes. Truly, I know what I'm doing. I

00:37:07 --> 00:37:08

know exactly what I'm doing.

00:37:10 --> 00:37:13

You know exactly what you're doing? I said.

00:37:14 --> 00:37:16

You know exactly what you're doing?

00:37:16 --> 00:37:18

No. No. You don't get off that easily,

00:37:18 --> 00:37:19

I thought to myself.

00:37:20 --> 00:37:22

You don't take my whole question. You don't

00:37:22 --> 00:37:25

take my pain. You don't take my life.

00:37:26 --> 00:37:28

Summarize it in 2 verses,

00:37:28 --> 00:37:31

and then just walk away and say you

00:37:31 --> 00:37:32

know what you're doing.

00:37:34 --> 00:37:35

That's my life there.

00:37:36 --> 00:37:40

That's my rage. That's my anger. You cannot

00:37:40 --> 00:37:42

walk away that easy. No. You don't ask

00:37:42 --> 00:37:44

that question without answering it.

00:37:45 --> 00:37:47

I wanna know what is the answer to

00:37:47 --> 00:37:50

that question. You made me,

00:37:50 --> 00:37:51

I thought to myself.

00:37:55 --> 00:37:56

And then it dawned on me,

00:37:56 --> 00:37:58

I was arguing with a god I didn't

00:37:58 --> 00:37:59

even believe in.

00:38:02 --> 00:38:04

And that would happen often when I read

00:38:04 --> 00:38:06

this Quran. Every now and then, I would

00:38:06 --> 00:38:08

slip into an argument with the scripture,

00:38:09 --> 00:38:11

arguing with the divinity I didn't even believe

00:38:11 --> 00:38:14

in, complaining to a God that I rejected.

00:38:16 --> 00:38:17

But that was the brilliance I thought of

00:38:17 --> 00:38:20

the author, the way he could phrase

00:38:20 --> 00:38:22

things in such a way to lure you

00:38:22 --> 00:38:24

in to feeling like you're conversing

00:38:25 --> 00:38:27

with God himself. I thought this author was

00:38:27 --> 00:38:28

extremely brilliant.

00:38:29 --> 00:38:32

And so I kept on reading, even though

00:38:32 --> 00:38:34

right now I was extremely agitated.

00:38:35 --> 00:38:37

But the strange thing is

00:38:37 --> 00:38:39

the author didn't end the answer to the

00:38:39 --> 00:38:41

angel's question with that verse.

00:38:42 --> 00:38:44

He just didn't say, truly, I know, but

00:38:44 --> 00:38:45

you do not, and then dismissed the question.

00:38:45 --> 00:38:47

Are you guys getting tired and bored?

00:38:48 --> 00:38:49

No. Seriously.

00:38:50 --> 00:38:51

Sorry about this, but, you know, these things

00:38:51 --> 00:38:53

are kinda fun for me. But,

00:38:54 --> 00:38:54

you know,

00:38:55 --> 00:38:57

whenever I talk about these, my daughters go,

00:38:57 --> 00:38:58

oh, here he goes again.

00:39:03 --> 00:39:04

You know, but, you know, for me, it's

00:39:04 --> 00:39:05

like doing mathematics.

00:39:06 --> 00:39:06

You know?

00:39:09 --> 00:39:09

It's beautiful,

00:39:10 --> 00:39:13

even though I know, you know, all students

00:39:13 --> 00:39:14

would agree with that.

00:39:15 --> 00:39:16

But in any case

00:39:17 --> 00:39:19

so I turned to the next verse and

00:39:19 --> 00:39:19

it says,

00:39:20 --> 00:39:21

and he, god,

00:39:21 --> 00:39:24

taught Adam the names of all things.

00:39:26 --> 00:39:28

And then he placed them before the angels

00:39:28 --> 00:39:29

and said,

00:39:29 --> 00:39:31

tell me their names if you are right.

00:39:32 --> 00:39:34

I looked at that verse, and it's clearly

00:39:34 --> 00:39:37

addressing the angels' question. It's responding to the

00:39:37 --> 00:39:38

angels' question.

00:39:38 --> 00:39:40

And it's interesting what it says. And he

00:39:40 --> 00:39:42

taught Adam the names of all things and

00:39:42 --> 00:39:44

then placed them before the angels and said,

00:39:44 --> 00:39:46

tell me their names if you are right.

00:39:47 --> 00:39:48

Right about what?

00:39:49 --> 00:39:52

About your question, your objection, in a sense,

00:39:52 --> 00:39:54

to the the existence of man.

00:39:57 --> 00:39:59

I remembered that in the account of this

00:39:59 --> 00:40:01

story that I had known from as I

00:40:01 --> 00:40:02

was a child,

00:40:02 --> 00:40:03

that man learns

00:40:04 --> 00:40:07

man is taught to not taught, but he

00:40:07 --> 00:40:09

is requires the ability to name things.

00:40:09 --> 00:40:11

But it was not presented as an answer

00:40:11 --> 00:40:12

to any kind of question.

00:40:13 --> 00:40:15

But in this version, the author

00:40:15 --> 00:40:17

now took this naming incident

00:40:18 --> 00:40:20

and used it to answer to begin an

00:40:20 --> 00:40:22

answer to the wording, because this author was

00:40:22 --> 00:40:23

extremely skillful in his choice of words. And

00:40:23 --> 00:40:24

he taught Adams the names of all things.

00:40:24 --> 00:40:26

I realized very quickly that you have to

00:40:26 --> 00:40:28

be very close pay very close attention to

00:40:28 --> 00:40:29

the wording

00:40:30 --> 00:40:32

because this author was extremely

00:40:32 --> 00:40:34

skillful in his choice of words.

00:40:34 --> 00:40:36

And he said and he taught Adam the

00:40:36 --> 00:40:37

names

00:40:37 --> 00:40:38

of all things.

00:40:38 --> 00:40:42

It's emphasizing that Adam here is can learn.

00:40:42 --> 00:40:44

He can be taught. He's an intellectual being.

00:40:45 --> 00:40:47

And he taught Adam what? How to name

00:40:48 --> 00:40:48

all things.

00:40:50 --> 00:40:50

All things.

00:40:51 --> 00:40:53

All things that come into his conscious mind.

00:40:53 --> 00:40:56

Everything he sees, everything he experiences,

00:40:56 --> 00:40:58

he's able to assign verbal symbols.

00:40:59 --> 00:41:01

Throughout I would later discover that throughout the

00:41:01 --> 00:41:04

Quran, the gift of human language, the human

00:41:04 --> 00:41:06

ability to to communicate,

00:41:06 --> 00:41:08

not just in word but also in writing

00:41:09 --> 00:41:09

would be

00:41:10 --> 00:41:10

emphasized

00:41:11 --> 00:41:14

throughout the Quran. That this skill is what

00:41:14 --> 00:41:14

makes man

00:41:15 --> 00:41:18

way above the creature creatures around him. This

00:41:18 --> 00:41:18

gift,

00:41:19 --> 00:41:21

especially, is one of the greatest gifts

00:41:21 --> 00:41:23

that God gives to mankind.

00:41:23 --> 00:41:25

In the Quran, in one place, it says

00:41:25 --> 00:41:29

it explicitly states that, that, read

00:41:29 --> 00:41:31

commands the reader. Read in the name of

00:41:31 --> 00:41:33

your Lord who created, created man from a

00:41:33 --> 00:41:35

tiny creature that clings.

00:41:35 --> 00:41:37

Read and your Lord is most bountiful. Why?

00:41:38 --> 00:41:40

Because he taught man the use of the

00:41:40 --> 00:41:40

pen,

00:41:41 --> 00:41:43

taught him with it what he could never

00:41:43 --> 00:41:45

know, what he knew not.

00:41:47 --> 00:41:50

The Quran will emphasize reading, talking, communicating,

00:41:50 --> 00:41:52

and man's intellectual abilities,

00:41:53 --> 00:41:56

especially as it is symbolized in this verse.

00:41:56 --> 00:41:59

What makes man special, what makes him unique,

00:42:00 --> 00:42:02

what begins as an answer to the angel's

00:42:02 --> 00:42:04

question, the author points to this verse,

00:42:05 --> 00:42:06

man's intellectual abilities.

00:42:08 --> 00:42:11

He begins by answering the angel's question by

00:42:11 --> 00:42:13

pointing to that, man's intellect,

00:42:15 --> 00:42:16

And symbolized especially

00:42:16 --> 00:42:17

his ability

00:42:18 --> 00:42:19

to assign verbal symbols

00:42:20 --> 00:42:23

to all the concepts that come into his

00:42:23 --> 00:42:24

mind.

00:42:25 --> 00:42:27

And then he placed them before the angels

00:42:27 --> 00:42:29

and said, you, tell me their names if

00:42:29 --> 00:42:30

you are right.

00:42:31 --> 00:42:34

And they said, glory to you.

00:42:34 --> 00:42:35

We have no knowledge

00:42:36 --> 00:42:37

except what you taught us.

00:42:37 --> 00:42:39

We only have the knowledge, the level of

00:42:39 --> 00:42:39

knowledge,

00:42:47 --> 00:42:48

have the intelligence

00:42:49 --> 00:42:51

to be able to create on their own

00:42:51 --> 00:42:52

verbal symbols

00:42:53 --> 00:42:55

for what they experience.

00:42:56 --> 00:42:58

You. We have no knowledge except what you

00:42:58 --> 00:43:00

taught us. We cannot name these things. And

00:43:00 --> 00:43:02

they say, in truth, it is you who

00:43:02 --> 00:43:03

are knowing

00:43:03 --> 00:43:04

the wise.

00:43:04 --> 00:43:07

This takes knowledge. This takes wisdom.

00:43:07 --> 00:43:09

This takes at least a certain level of

00:43:09 --> 00:43:10

genius

00:43:10 --> 00:43:12

to be able to name things like this.

00:43:12 --> 00:43:15

They admit their inferiority. This is beyond them.

00:43:16 --> 00:43:17

And then you turn to the next verse,

00:43:17 --> 00:43:20

and it says, and he said, oh, Adam,

00:43:20 --> 00:43:21

tell them their names.

00:43:23 --> 00:43:24

And Adam succeeds

00:43:25 --> 00:43:26

where the angels fail.

00:43:28 --> 00:43:30

The angels cannot did not have the ability

00:43:30 --> 00:43:32

to be able to do to meet this

00:43:32 --> 00:43:33

task.

00:43:33 --> 00:43:33

Adam,

00:43:35 --> 00:43:36

he succeeds instantly.

00:43:37 --> 00:43:39

And when he had told them their names,

00:43:39 --> 00:43:41

God said to the angels, did I not

00:43:41 --> 00:43:43

tell you that I know what is unseen

00:43:43 --> 00:43:44

in the heavens and the earth, and I

00:43:44 --> 00:43:47

know what you reveal and what you conceal?

00:43:49 --> 00:43:51

A direct reference to the question.

00:43:51 --> 00:43:53

Did I not tell you that I know

00:43:53 --> 00:43:55

what is in the heavens and the earth,

00:43:55 --> 00:43:57

and I know what you reveal and you

00:43:57 --> 00:43:59

conceal? Didn't see? Didn't I just tell you

00:43:59 --> 00:44:00

I know exactly what I'm doing?

00:44:07 --> 00:44:09

But the thing that got me was this

00:44:09 --> 00:44:11

last part. Did I not tell you that

00:44:11 --> 00:44:12

I know what is unseen in the heavens

00:44:12 --> 00:44:14

and the earth, and I know what you

00:44:14 --> 00:44:15

reveal and

00:44:15 --> 00:44:16

you conceal?

00:44:17 --> 00:44:19

What did the angels reveal?

00:44:20 --> 00:44:21

What did they conceal?

00:44:22 --> 00:44:24

I was amazed at the

00:44:24 --> 00:44:26

economy of expression of the author.

00:44:27 --> 00:44:29

In just a few words, he could pack

00:44:29 --> 00:44:30

so much meaning.

00:44:31 --> 00:44:33

It's so easy to just read through this.

00:44:33 --> 00:44:34

I've read through this 3 times, I told

00:44:34 --> 00:44:36

you, 2 or 3 times before I went

00:44:36 --> 00:44:38

back and read through it slowly. I didn't

00:44:38 --> 00:44:40

realize anything. Couldn't see the get the picture.

00:44:41 --> 00:44:43

But I went back and read it line

00:44:43 --> 00:44:45

by line, word by word. Suddenly, a whole

00:44:45 --> 00:44:47

world was opening up to me.

00:44:48 --> 00:44:49

Did I not tell you that I know

00:44:49 --> 00:44:50

what is unseen in the heavens and the

00:44:50 --> 00:44:52

earth, and I know what you reveal

00:44:52 --> 00:44:53

and what you conceal?

00:44:54 --> 00:44:55

What did the angels reveal?

00:44:57 --> 00:44:58

What did they conceal?

00:44:58 --> 00:45:00

Oh, I look back. It's obvious what they

00:45:00 --> 00:45:01

revealed,

00:45:01 --> 00:45:02

the evil propensities

00:45:03 --> 00:45:03

of man.

00:45:04 --> 00:45:06

Man's ability to destroy,

00:45:06 --> 00:45:07

to wreak havoc,

00:45:07 --> 00:45:08

to spread corruption,

00:45:09 --> 00:45:10

to shed blood,

00:45:10 --> 00:45:13

they revealed the dark side of human nature

00:45:13 --> 00:45:14

plainly.

00:45:15 --> 00:45:16

But what did they conceal?

00:45:17 --> 00:45:19

I thought about it and it was obvious.

00:45:20 --> 00:45:23

They ignored, neglected to say

00:45:23 --> 00:45:25

that man has the reciprocal ability

00:45:25 --> 00:45:26

to do good,

00:45:27 --> 00:45:28

to show compassion,

00:45:28 --> 00:45:29

to be kind,

00:45:30 --> 00:45:31

to be merciful,

00:45:31 --> 00:45:32

to be just,

00:45:33 --> 00:45:34

to be to do what is righteous,

00:45:35 --> 00:45:36

to do righteous deeds.

00:45:37 --> 00:45:40

Man has the ability to rise to great

00:45:40 --> 00:45:41

heights of virtue.

00:45:43 --> 00:45:45

That was an eye opener for me

00:45:45 --> 00:45:47

because I had always seen the dark side

00:45:47 --> 00:45:49

of the man.

00:45:49 --> 00:45:51

That I was blind to it. I had

00:45:51 --> 00:45:52

a blind spot. I was blind to the

00:45:55 --> 00:45:56

reciprocal ability of man.

00:45:57 --> 00:45:58

But here,

00:45:58 --> 00:45:59

the angels

00:45:59 --> 00:46:01

are being told exactly what I needed to

00:46:01 --> 00:46:02

be told,

00:46:03 --> 00:46:05

that yes, human beings could be extremely destructive.

00:46:06 --> 00:46:08

They could be violent. They could be vicious.

00:46:08 --> 00:46:09

They could be mean.

00:46:09 --> 00:46:12

But they also could be kind, good,

00:46:13 --> 00:46:13

merciful,

00:46:14 --> 00:46:14

virtuous.

00:46:15 --> 00:46:17

And we all know it. Throughout history, we

00:46:17 --> 00:46:19

have the greatest exemplars

00:46:19 --> 00:46:21

of goodness and the greatest exemplars of evil,

00:46:22 --> 00:46:24

sometimes living side by side on the human

00:46:24 --> 00:46:25

stage. I

00:46:25 --> 00:46:27

have great examples, Adolf Hitler

00:46:28 --> 00:46:28

and Schindler.

00:46:29 --> 00:46:30

Right?

00:46:30 --> 00:46:33

Usually, when someone evil arises, it forces the

00:46:33 --> 00:46:34

good out of others.

00:46:36 --> 00:46:38

It seems to produce to bring out the

00:46:38 --> 00:46:40

best in each other in a certain sense.

00:46:41 --> 00:46:41

Right?

00:46:42 --> 00:46:44

But here, that's what I was saying. Sometimes

00:46:44 --> 00:46:46

these great exemplars of both tendencies, they can

00:46:46 --> 00:46:48

live in the same era, in the same

00:46:49 --> 00:46:49

country,

00:46:49 --> 00:46:52

in the same city, even on the same

00:46:52 --> 00:46:52

block,

00:46:53 --> 00:46:54

even in the same house.

00:46:58 --> 00:46:59

And we said,

00:46:59 --> 00:47:00

next verse,

00:47:01 --> 00:47:02

and be on a and it says in

00:47:02 --> 00:47:04

the next verse, and behold, we said to

00:47:04 --> 00:47:04

the angels,

00:47:05 --> 00:47:06

bow down to Adam,

00:47:07 --> 00:47:08

and they bowed down.

00:47:08 --> 00:47:11

But not so Iblis, turns out to be

00:47:11 --> 00:47:13

Satan. He refused and was arrogant. He was

00:47:13 --> 00:47:15

of those who reject faith.

00:47:16 --> 00:47:18

And we said to the angels, bow down

00:47:18 --> 00:47:20

to Adam. If I had any doubt up

00:47:20 --> 00:47:21

to this point

00:47:21 --> 00:47:24

that the author meant that human intelligence

00:47:24 --> 00:47:25

made mankind

00:47:26 --> 00:47:30

potentially superior to the angels, this verse removed

00:47:30 --> 00:47:30

all doubt.

00:47:31 --> 00:47:33

Because it says to the angels, after god

00:47:33 --> 00:47:33

demonstrates

00:47:34 --> 00:47:37

that man is his intellectual superior, tells the

00:47:37 --> 00:47:39

angels bow down to Adam, and they bow

00:47:39 --> 00:47:40

down.

00:47:41 --> 00:47:43

Bow down bowing down could be a symbol

00:47:43 --> 00:47:44

of what? Well, it could be a symbol

00:47:44 --> 00:47:46

of inferiority,

00:47:46 --> 00:47:48

but it also could be a symbol of

00:47:48 --> 00:47:48

subservience.

00:47:50 --> 00:47:51

And perhaps the author, and I would later

00:47:51 --> 00:47:53

see that this is true, that what he's

00:47:53 --> 00:47:56

saying here is that not only angels are

00:47:56 --> 00:47:58

of lesser intelligence than man,

00:47:59 --> 00:48:00

do not have his intellectual

00:48:00 --> 00:48:03

capacity, but also it's saying that these angels

00:48:03 --> 00:48:04

will

00:48:04 --> 00:48:05

serve

00:48:06 --> 00:48:08

the development will serve god, but they will

00:48:08 --> 00:48:10

serve the development of man.

00:48:11 --> 00:48:12

And later in the Quran, we'll see that

00:48:12 --> 00:48:15

everything else about us in this learning experience,

00:48:15 --> 00:48:18

in this life on earth, is for to

00:48:18 --> 00:48:20

serve our growth and development.

00:48:20 --> 00:48:22

Even Satan, it turns out,

00:48:22 --> 00:48:25

serves a function according to the Quran.

00:48:25 --> 00:48:28

All of it serves an essential role in

00:48:28 --> 00:48:29

the development and

00:48:30 --> 00:48:31

evolution of the human personality.

00:48:35 --> 00:48:38

And Iblis refused. Satan refused to bow down.

00:48:38 --> 00:48:40

Why? Because he was arrogant. It was of

00:48:40 --> 00:48:42

those who reject faith.

00:48:43 --> 00:48:44

If you give me a minute, I'll just

00:48:44 --> 00:48:46

summarize where we are right now.

00:48:46 --> 00:48:49

Angels asked the right question, why create this

00:48:49 --> 00:48:51

human being in the first place? Because he

00:48:51 --> 00:48:54

is so destructive and violent, sinful, etcetera.

00:48:54 --> 00:48:57

God begins to answer the question by saying,

00:48:58 --> 00:49:01

look, he has superior intelligence. He has a

00:49:01 --> 00:49:05

tremendous capacity intellectual capacity in comparison to the

00:49:05 --> 00:49:07

creatures around him. When he demonstrates this, he

00:49:07 --> 00:49:09

tells the angels to bow down. You will

00:49:09 --> 00:49:10

serve his development.

00:49:11 --> 00:49:13

And then he introduces Satan, Iblis.

00:49:14 --> 00:49:16

And so what does Satan, I thought, represent

00:49:16 --> 00:49:19

in almost every culture? What do angels represent

00:49:19 --> 00:49:21

in almost every culture? In almost every and

00:49:21 --> 00:49:23

especially in the religion I grew up with,

00:49:23 --> 00:49:26

Satan represents the source of temptation,

00:49:27 --> 00:49:29

that that being who whispers

00:49:29 --> 00:49:31

temptations into our soul.

00:49:32 --> 00:49:33

Angels represent

00:49:34 --> 00:49:36

the source of those magnanimous urgings. So that

00:49:36 --> 00:49:38

when we're faced with a moral

00:49:38 --> 00:49:41

dilemma, we hear both voices in our soul

00:49:41 --> 00:49:43

telling us, go ahead.

00:49:43 --> 00:49:45

You know, enjoy yourself. Don't worry about it.

00:49:45 --> 00:49:46

It's okay.

00:49:46 --> 00:49:47

Relax.

00:49:48 --> 00:49:50

That's gonna be good for you. Have a

00:49:50 --> 00:49:52

good time. The angel's saying, No. That's not

00:49:52 --> 00:49:55

the right thing, Jeff. Don't do that. You

00:49:55 --> 00:49:57

do that, you're doing the wrong thing. Remember

00:49:57 --> 00:50:00

your mom. Remember how honest she was. That's

00:50:00 --> 00:50:01

what she taught you.

00:50:03 --> 00:50:04

Here, the author is introducing

00:50:05 --> 00:50:06

the source of temptation

00:50:06 --> 00:50:08

that we are exposed to and the source

00:50:08 --> 00:50:09

of inspiration

00:50:10 --> 00:50:12

that all human beings are subject to. That's

00:50:12 --> 00:50:14

what they pretty much represent in all cultures.

00:50:14 --> 00:50:16

But why does he introduce it at this

00:50:16 --> 00:50:17

stage?

00:50:18 --> 00:50:20

Well, first, in answer to the angel's question,

00:50:20 --> 00:50:24

I thought he's talking about man's intellectual ability.

00:50:24 --> 00:50:25

Now he's talking about what?

00:50:26 --> 00:50:28

Man has the ability to choose. To choose

00:50:28 --> 00:50:30

between because he is subject

00:50:30 --> 00:50:33

to magnanimous urgings and evil promptings.

00:50:33 --> 00:50:35

And he has the ability, as we'll soon

00:50:35 --> 00:50:37

see, to choose between them.

00:50:37 --> 00:50:40

Man is a creature of choice, a moral

00:50:40 --> 00:50:40

being.

00:50:41 --> 00:50:44

And these promptings that he's subjected to, magnanimous

00:50:44 --> 00:50:46

urgings and evil promptings, temptations,

00:50:47 --> 00:50:47

heighten the morality of a decision. It forces

00:50:47 --> 00:50:48

us to focus on it.

00:50:52 --> 00:50:54

So that not only can we discern between

00:50:54 --> 00:50:55

the 2, but when we have to make

00:50:55 --> 00:50:56

a moral decision,

00:50:57 --> 00:50:57

it becomes

00:50:58 --> 00:51:00

we focus on it in an intense we're

00:51:00 --> 00:51:02

forced to focus on it in an intense

00:51:02 --> 00:51:03

way.

00:51:04 --> 00:51:05

So up to this point, we see that

00:51:05 --> 00:51:08

man has gone through a period of instruction,

00:51:08 --> 00:51:09

of learning.

00:51:10 --> 00:51:11

In his development,

00:51:12 --> 00:51:13

he's now become a moral

00:51:14 --> 00:51:16

being, and so he was presented with a

00:51:16 --> 00:51:17

choice.

00:51:17 --> 00:51:18

And he said,

00:51:18 --> 00:51:20

and we said, oh, Adam,

00:51:20 --> 00:51:23

dwell you and your spouse in the garden,

00:51:23 --> 00:51:25

and eat freely thereof what you wish.

00:51:25 --> 00:51:28

But come not near this tree, for you

00:51:28 --> 00:51:29

will be among the wrongdoers.

00:51:31 --> 00:51:32

I'm thinking

00:51:33 --> 00:51:35

the author either has his own

00:51:35 --> 00:51:36

original

00:51:37 --> 00:51:39

version that he's talking about here, that he's

00:51:39 --> 00:51:40

presenting here,

00:51:42 --> 00:51:44

or he just can't make up his mind

00:51:44 --> 00:51:46

what point he is trying to get get

00:51:46 --> 00:51:48

across. He's getting lost. Let me read it

00:51:48 --> 00:51:50

again. Dwell you and your spouse in the

00:51:50 --> 00:51:52

garden, and eat freely thereof what you wish,

00:51:52 --> 00:51:55

but come not near this tree, for you

00:51:55 --> 00:51:56

will be among the wrongdoers.

00:51:56 --> 00:51:58

The reason why I said the author seems

00:51:58 --> 00:51:59

to be confused

00:51:59 --> 00:52:00

is because

00:52:01 --> 00:52:03

he he's almost totally

00:52:03 --> 00:52:04

dispassionate

00:52:05 --> 00:52:06

in that statement.

00:52:07 --> 00:52:08

I said to myself, no. That's not how

00:52:08 --> 00:52:09

it works.

00:52:10 --> 00:52:12

God is supposed to be fearful

00:52:12 --> 00:52:13

at the prospect

00:52:13 --> 00:52:15

that Adam may eat from the tree,

00:52:16 --> 00:52:19

because that's the tree of eternal life and

00:52:19 --> 00:52:21

infinite knowledge. And if he eats from it,

00:52:21 --> 00:52:23

as it said in my upbringing, they will

00:52:23 --> 00:52:25

become as gods.

00:52:27 --> 00:52:29

And so God, after he banishes man from

00:52:29 --> 00:52:32

the garden, puts an angel around that tree

00:52:32 --> 00:52:34

so that he never goes near it again.

00:52:34 --> 00:52:36

For God knows, if he goes near that

00:52:36 --> 00:52:37

tree,

00:52:37 --> 00:52:38

it's a disaster.

00:52:39 --> 00:52:41

Man could become his equal.

00:52:43 --> 00:52:46

And he's nervous and frightened at the prospect

00:52:46 --> 00:52:48

that man will go to the tree and

00:52:48 --> 00:52:49

eat from it.

00:52:50 --> 00:52:51

But here,

00:52:51 --> 00:52:53

there's no sense of urgency.

00:52:53 --> 00:52:55

There's no sense of panic. There's no sense

00:52:55 --> 00:52:56

of even

00:53:05 --> 00:53:07

what you wish, but come not near this

00:53:07 --> 00:53:10

tree, for why? For you will be among

00:53:10 --> 00:53:11

the wrongdoers.

00:53:12 --> 00:53:15

It's almost as if the tree is picked

00:53:15 --> 00:53:15

at random.

00:53:17 --> 00:53:18

Let's see. Adam, Eve,

00:53:19 --> 00:53:21

go now eat whatever you like in the

00:53:21 --> 00:53:22

garden, but don't go near

00:53:23 --> 00:53:23

that

00:53:25 --> 00:53:27

tree. There's nothing special about the tree.

00:53:28 --> 00:53:29

I read the whole rest of the Quran.

00:53:29 --> 00:53:31

There was nothing special about the tree.

00:53:32 --> 00:53:33

Satan

00:53:33 --> 00:53:36

tempted Adam and told him it's, you know,

00:53:36 --> 00:53:37

this tree, if you eat this from this

00:53:37 --> 00:53:39

fruit, you'll have an eternal great kingdom,

00:53:40 --> 00:53:42

a kingdom that never decays and so forth,

00:53:42 --> 00:53:44

and eternal life.

00:53:44 --> 00:53:46

It turns out to be a falsification on

00:53:46 --> 00:53:46

his part.

00:53:47 --> 00:53:48

No truth in it at all.

00:53:49 --> 00:53:52

But God seems totally in control here,

00:53:53 --> 00:53:54

not at all worried at this prospect.

00:53:55 --> 00:53:57

What does the next verse say?

00:53:57 --> 00:53:58

But Satan

00:53:59 --> 00:54:00

caused them to slip

00:54:01 --> 00:54:03

and expelled them from the state in which

00:54:03 --> 00:54:04

they were.

00:54:04 --> 00:54:06

I read that verse and said, what?

00:54:07 --> 00:54:10

This author has a penchant for understating things.

00:54:10 --> 00:54:13

What happened? But Satan caused them

00:54:13 --> 00:54:14

to

00:54:14 --> 00:54:15

slip

00:54:17 --> 00:54:17

and

00:54:18 --> 00:54:18

expelled

00:54:19 --> 00:54:21

them from the state in which they were.

00:54:22 --> 00:54:23

What?

00:54:23 --> 00:54:24

The greatest

00:54:25 --> 00:54:28

sin in the history of the human race,

00:54:28 --> 00:54:30

the sin for which you and I and

00:54:30 --> 00:54:32

all of us here are sweating it out

00:54:32 --> 00:54:34

down here on earth, and we have to

00:54:34 --> 00:54:38

live and and work and suffer and go

00:54:38 --> 00:54:41

through pain and agony and death,

00:54:41 --> 00:54:44

that sin that brought this down upon us

00:54:44 --> 00:54:45

is a slip?

00:54:46 --> 00:54:46

A slip?

00:54:48 --> 00:54:50

I went to my Arabian friends, and I

00:54:50 --> 00:54:52

asked them, you see this verse in the

00:54:52 --> 00:54:52

Quran here?

00:54:53 --> 00:54:55

This word here, could you tell me what

00:54:55 --> 00:54:56

it means?

00:54:57 --> 00:54:59

And he said, it means to slip.

00:55:02 --> 00:55:04

And I said to them, no. I mean,

00:55:04 --> 00:55:05

you know, a slip in English is when

00:55:05 --> 00:55:06

I go like this.

00:55:07 --> 00:55:08

You know? A slip

00:55:09 --> 00:55:10

is, a minor

00:55:11 --> 00:55:11

distraction.

00:55:12 --> 00:55:13

You get distracted for a second and you

00:55:13 --> 00:55:15

sort of lose your focus, but you immediately

00:55:15 --> 00:55:18

regain it. It's something minor, I told them.

00:55:18 --> 00:55:21

You know, like I say to another American,

00:55:21 --> 00:55:22

you know, I slipped up. It's no big

00:55:22 --> 00:55:23

deal.

00:55:24 --> 00:55:26

Jeff, what happened there? Oh, don't worry about

00:55:26 --> 00:55:28

it. Uh-huh. I tell my department head, it's

00:55:28 --> 00:55:30

just a slip up. What happened again?

00:55:30 --> 00:55:32

You know, it's a slip up. Don't worry

00:55:32 --> 00:55:34

about it. Oh, I slipped.

00:55:34 --> 00:55:35

No big deal.

00:55:37 --> 00:55:38

They told me it means the same thing

00:55:39 --> 00:55:39

to slip.

00:55:41 --> 00:55:42

No big deal.

00:55:44 --> 00:55:44

The slip?

00:55:45 --> 00:55:47

That Satan caused them to slip,

00:55:47 --> 00:55:49

and they were expelled from the state in

00:55:49 --> 00:55:50

which they were. What state were they?

00:55:51 --> 00:55:52

Total compliance

00:55:53 --> 00:55:54

to god's will.

00:55:55 --> 00:55:57

What state were they in now? They had

00:55:57 --> 00:55:58

discovered the ability

00:56:00 --> 00:56:02

to go against that will, to make an

00:56:02 --> 00:56:03

independent choice.

00:56:03 --> 00:56:05

Up to this point, we saw that they

00:56:05 --> 00:56:07

were given the ability to choose, presented with

00:56:07 --> 00:56:09

temptation and magnanimous urgings.

00:56:09 --> 00:56:10

Now,

00:56:11 --> 00:56:11

now,

00:56:12 --> 00:56:14

we actually see them make that independent choice.

00:56:14 --> 00:56:16

They have might have been given many commands

00:56:16 --> 00:56:18

before, may have had many choices before.

00:56:19 --> 00:56:21

What's significant about this choice, the story seems

00:56:21 --> 00:56:23

to be saying, is that it's the first

00:56:23 --> 00:56:25

time they made an independent one.

00:56:26 --> 00:56:28

But Satan caused them to slip and expelled

00:56:28 --> 00:56:30

them from the state in which they were,

00:56:30 --> 00:56:31

and we said,

00:56:31 --> 00:56:32

go you all down,

00:56:33 --> 00:56:35

some of you being the enemies of others,

00:56:36 --> 00:56:38

and on earth will be your dwelling place

00:56:38 --> 00:56:40

and provision for a time.

00:56:41 --> 00:56:42

Go you all down,

00:56:42 --> 00:56:44

some of you will be adversaries of others,

00:56:45 --> 00:56:47

and on earth will be your dwelling place

00:56:47 --> 00:56:48

and provision for a time.

00:56:50 --> 00:56:51

And the author, I thought,

00:56:52 --> 00:56:53

he just doesn't get it.

00:56:54 --> 00:56:56

I mean, there should be rage here. There

00:56:56 --> 00:56:57

should be anger.

00:56:58 --> 00:56:59

God should be furious.

00:57:00 --> 00:57:01

He should be losing

00:57:02 --> 00:57:04

it. He should be threatening this creature. He

00:57:04 --> 00:57:06

should be screaming at him, telling him, yes.

00:57:06 --> 00:57:08

And the woman, you're gonna have to have

00:57:08 --> 00:57:10

a period and you're gonna scream on your

00:57:10 --> 00:57:12

labor pants. And you, you you're gonna

00:57:12 --> 00:57:14

then you're and that is she he this

00:57:14 --> 00:57:16

this this guy, you were too smart and

00:57:16 --> 00:57:19

you tricked him, he's gonna rule over you.

00:57:19 --> 00:57:21

That's gonna teach you a lesson, and, you

00:57:21 --> 00:57:22

know, and so forth.

00:57:23 --> 00:57:23

But here,

00:57:24 --> 00:57:25

simply says,

00:57:26 --> 00:57:28

go, you all down, some of you being

00:57:28 --> 00:57:30

adversaries of others, and earth will be your

00:57:30 --> 00:57:32

dwelling place and provision for a time.

00:57:33 --> 00:57:35

And that's not a god losing it.

00:57:36 --> 00:57:38

And on earth will be your dwelling place

00:57:38 --> 00:57:39

and provision for a time.

00:57:40 --> 00:57:42

When I walked into the hotel today,

00:57:42 --> 00:57:44

and the person behind the desk said, here's

00:57:44 --> 00:57:47

your room, and we have a continental breakfast

00:57:47 --> 00:57:47

in the morning.

00:57:48 --> 00:57:50

I didn't assume they were angry at me.

00:57:55 --> 00:57:58

Here's your room. We have a continental breakfast

00:57:58 --> 00:57:58

in the morning.

00:58:01 --> 00:58:01

You know,

00:58:02 --> 00:58:04

I didn't assume they were angry at me.

00:58:04 --> 00:58:06

They weren't. But that's essentially

00:58:06 --> 00:58:08

go you all down. Some of you will

00:58:08 --> 00:58:10

be adversaries of others. The angels already said

00:58:10 --> 00:58:11

that in their in their question.

00:58:12 --> 00:58:15

There will be violence. This creature creates violence.

00:58:15 --> 00:58:16

This seems to be more a warning than

00:58:16 --> 00:58:18

anything else. And on earth will be your

00:58:18 --> 00:58:19

dwelling letter

00:58:22 --> 00:58:23

of

00:58:27 --> 00:58:28

exploding out of control.

00:58:29 --> 00:58:31

And then Adam received words from his Lord,

00:58:32 --> 00:58:33

and he turned to him mercifully.

00:58:34 --> 00:58:37

For truly, God is oft returning ever merciful.

00:58:38 --> 00:58:38

What?

00:58:39 --> 00:58:39

Merciful?

00:58:40 --> 00:58:41

Adam

00:58:41 --> 00:58:44

receives words from his lord? Turns out in

00:58:44 --> 00:58:46

the next verse, the words of consolatory words,

00:58:46 --> 00:58:47

the words of consolation.

00:58:48 --> 00:58:51

Then Adam receives words from his lord, and

00:58:51 --> 00:58:53

he turned to him merciful. God forgives him.

00:58:54 --> 00:58:56

Truly is off returning the merciful.

00:58:58 --> 00:59:00

It's definitely not God going out of control.

00:59:01 --> 00:59:03

I thought, what point is the author trying

00:59:03 --> 00:59:04

to make here?

00:59:05 --> 00:59:07

He has missed the whole point and purpose

00:59:07 --> 00:59:08

of this story.

00:59:10 --> 00:59:11

Next verse.

00:59:12 --> 00:59:13

And it repeats what it said before us.

00:59:13 --> 00:59:14

So we said,

00:59:15 --> 00:59:16

go down from this state,

00:59:17 --> 00:59:18

all of you together.

00:59:18 --> 00:59:20

And truly there will come guidance come for

00:59:20 --> 00:59:23

me guidance to you. And whoever follows did

00:59:29 --> 00:59:30

was not punishing Adam by

00:59:31 --> 00:59:31

putting

00:59:32 --> 00:59:34

was not punishing Adam

00:59:35 --> 00:59:37

by putting him on earth, Adam and his

00:59:37 --> 00:59:37

spouse,

00:59:38 --> 00:59:40

it was removed when I read this verse

00:59:41 --> 00:59:43

and the and the previous one, because God

00:59:43 --> 00:59:44

says, go down from the state, all of

00:59:44 --> 00:59:45

you together,

00:59:46 --> 00:59:48

and then and then he embraces Adam.

00:59:48 --> 00:59:51

And truly, there will come to guidance from

00:59:51 --> 00:59:53

me, Adam and Eve. And whoever follows my

00:59:53 --> 00:59:55

guidance, no fear shall come upon them,

00:59:56 --> 00:59:58

nor they shall shall they grieve. It's a

00:59:58 --> 00:59:59

tender scene.

01:00:00 --> 01:00:03

Adam and his spouse repented in the previous

01:00:03 --> 01:00:04

verse.

01:00:04 --> 01:00:06

God forgave them. But he tells them that

01:00:06 --> 01:00:07

you have to go down

01:00:08 --> 01:00:10

from the state in which you were.

01:00:11 --> 01:00:12

They're obviously fearful.

01:00:13 --> 01:00:14

They're obviously somewhat panicked.

01:00:15 --> 01:00:17

This is all new to them.

01:00:17 --> 01:00:19

And what does god say to them? He

01:00:19 --> 01:00:20

says, but don't worry.

01:00:21 --> 01:00:23

Guidance will come from me. And whoever follows

01:00:23 --> 01:00:25

my guidance, no fear shall come upon them

01:00:25 --> 01:00:27

nor shall they grieve.

01:00:28 --> 01:00:29

It's like a parent

01:00:29 --> 01:00:31

addressing a hurt child

01:00:31 --> 01:00:32

or a penitent child.

01:00:33 --> 01:00:35

Don't worry about it. You'll be alright.

01:00:36 --> 01:00:38

Don't panic. I'm not here to hurt you.

01:00:40 --> 01:00:41

Don't be afraid.

01:00:42 --> 01:00:43

You'll be alright.

01:00:43 --> 01:00:45

There'll come guidance for me. And as long

01:00:45 --> 01:00:48

as you follow my guidance, you have nothing

01:00:48 --> 01:00:50

to fear nor shall you grieve. I know

01:00:50 --> 01:00:52

you're afraid. I know this is new for

01:00:52 --> 01:00:54

you. I know this is hard for you,

01:00:54 --> 01:00:56

but you have to go through it. But

01:00:56 --> 01:00:57

don't worry. I'll be with you. Just follow

01:00:57 --> 01:00:58

my guidance. You have nothing to grieve. My

01:00:58 --> 01:01:00

guidance. You have nothing to grieve.

01:01:03 --> 01:01:04

The last verse

01:01:05 --> 01:01:07

switches to the past tense.

01:01:08 --> 01:01:10

Up to this point, we're talking about the

01:01:10 --> 01:01:11

beginnings of mankind.

01:01:12 --> 01:01:14

This verse transports us to the very end

01:01:14 --> 01:01:17

of the human drama, looking back on the

01:01:17 --> 01:01:18

history of mankind.

01:01:18 --> 01:01:20

And it says, and those who rejected

01:01:20 --> 01:01:22

and gave the lie to our signs,

01:01:23 --> 01:01:23

past tense,

01:01:24 --> 01:01:25

these are friends of the fire.

01:01:27 --> 01:01:28

They dwell therein.

01:01:30 --> 01:01:32

Notice how it switches to a whole another

01:01:32 --> 01:01:32

scene.

01:01:32 --> 01:01:34

It would be unfair to say this to

01:01:34 --> 01:01:36

the couple. They've just been through a lot.

01:01:36 --> 01:01:39

So it doesn't address them personally. It addresses

01:01:39 --> 01:01:41

the reader. It takes

01:01:42 --> 01:01:43

them to the future,

01:01:43 --> 01:01:44

to the day of judgment,

01:01:45 --> 01:01:46

and looks back at human history and says,

01:01:46 --> 01:01:48

and those who reject it and gave a

01:01:48 --> 01:01:49

lie to our signs,

01:01:50 --> 01:01:52

these are the friends of the fire they

01:01:52 --> 01:01:53

dwell therein.

01:01:54 --> 01:01:55

They're friends of the fire?

01:01:56 --> 01:01:58

Curious choice of words. The author is constantly

01:01:58 --> 01:01:59

making intriguing

01:02:00 --> 01:02:03

choices of words. Do people befriend the suffering

01:02:03 --> 01:02:05

that awaits them in the next life, I

01:02:05 --> 01:02:07

thought? They're friends of the fire?

01:02:08 --> 01:02:10

Do people court? Do they pursue?

01:02:11 --> 01:02:12

Do they embrace

01:02:13 --> 01:02:15

the misery that's gonna meet them in the

01:02:15 --> 01:02:15

hereafter?

01:02:16 --> 01:02:17

How? I thought.

01:02:18 --> 01:02:21

It says they dwell therein. When? In the

01:02:21 --> 01:02:21

past?

01:02:22 --> 01:02:23

What?

01:02:23 --> 01:02:26

Did they already create or live in some

01:02:26 --> 01:02:29

kind of * in this life that's organically

01:02:29 --> 01:02:31

connected to the * they experience in the

01:02:31 --> 01:02:32

next?

01:02:32 --> 01:02:34

What is he saying here?

01:02:35 --> 01:02:36

Later in the Quran, I would read a

01:02:36 --> 01:02:38

verse like that says this, in your mutual

01:02:38 --> 01:02:40

rivalry for the things of the

01:02:47 --> 01:02:49

for piling up the things of the world,

01:02:49 --> 01:02:50

you are diverted.

01:02:50 --> 01:02:52

Then it says, but then you will know

01:02:54 --> 01:02:55

when you die.

01:02:55 --> 01:02:57

Then it says, and then again you will

01:02:57 --> 01:02:57

know

01:02:58 --> 01:02:59

when you reach your next existence.

01:03:00 --> 01:03:01

But then it says, but if you could

01:03:01 --> 01:03:04

see right now with the eye of reality,

01:03:04 --> 01:03:06

you would certainly see the *.

01:03:07 --> 01:03:08

What *?

01:03:09 --> 01:03:10

When you're already in.

01:03:12 --> 01:03:13

Is that what the author is trying to

01:03:13 --> 01:03:16

say? Is there an organic link between

01:03:17 --> 01:03:18

what we do in this life to what

01:03:18 --> 01:03:21

we experience in the next? Do we create

01:03:21 --> 01:03:22

our Do we start? Do we, in a

01:03:22 --> 01:03:23

sense,

01:03:23 --> 01:03:24

make

01:03:24 --> 01:03:25

ourselves

01:03:26 --> 01:03:29

into that type of creature that experiences either

01:03:29 --> 01:03:29

pain

01:03:30 --> 01:03:31

or happiness in the next life?

01:03:32 --> 01:03:34

Too many questions were coming into my mind.

01:03:35 --> 01:03:36

And

01:03:36 --> 01:03:38

I kept seeing a picture going in and

01:03:38 --> 01:03:39

out of focus.

01:03:39 --> 01:03:40

And I was only

01:03:41 --> 01:03:44

38, 39 verses through the Quran and the

01:03:44 --> 01:03:48

7 in the opening chapter. So 46 verses.

01:03:48 --> 01:03:50

It's only a few pages through the Quran.

01:03:50 --> 01:03:52

I had a whole Quran to go.

01:03:52 --> 01:03:55

But I was determined to pursue it and

01:03:56 --> 01:03:58

find how the answer author deals with those

01:03:58 --> 01:03:59

questions.

01:04:00 --> 01:04:01

So I thought he was a genius up

01:04:01 --> 01:04:03

to this point. I thought he was a

01:04:03 --> 01:04:04

genius beyond

01:04:05 --> 01:04:07

any genius I had ever read, or at

01:04:07 --> 01:04:09

least I thought he could be. But I

01:04:09 --> 01:04:10

thought as I read through the rest of

01:04:10 --> 01:04:13

the Quran, he'd start to fall apart, make

01:04:13 --> 01:04:13

mistakes,

01:04:14 --> 01:04:15

contradict himself.

01:04:16 --> 01:04:17

So I continued reading.

01:04:18 --> 01:04:20

I was just intrigued. I was wondering when

01:04:20 --> 01:04:22

he was gonna trip over his own feet.

01:04:24 --> 01:04:24

Okay.

01:04:25 --> 01:04:26

Three things the office seemed to be emphasizing

01:04:27 --> 01:04:29

in this story, 3 things that intrigued me

01:04:29 --> 01:04:30

most. It seemed that he was emphasizing

01:04:31 --> 01:04:33

in response to the angel's question, why create

01:04:33 --> 01:04:34

this

01:04:34 --> 01:04:36

most corrupt and worst creature?

01:04:37 --> 01:04:38

Are you getting really exhausted?

01:04:39 --> 01:04:39

Seriously.

01:04:41 --> 01:04:42

Because I could finish this tomorrow.

01:04:46 --> 01:04:46

Really.

01:04:47 --> 01:04:48

No lie.

01:04:49 --> 01:04:50

I'm not a politician.

01:04:50 --> 01:04:51

I'm telling the truth.

01:04:54 --> 01:04:54

Okay.

01:04:55 --> 01:04:58

I'll go a little further. Until you get

01:04:58 --> 01:04:59

too exhausted, just raise your hands.

01:05:01 --> 01:05:03

Okay. Because you've been at it a long

01:05:03 --> 01:05:05

time already. I know. Okay. Now we're

01:05:06 --> 01:05:07

in ten minutes of

01:05:07 --> 01:05:09

of listening to me talk.

01:05:09 --> 01:05:11

But in any case, three things in response

01:05:11 --> 01:05:13

to the angel's question he seemed to be

01:05:13 --> 01:05:14

emphasizing. 1,

01:05:15 --> 01:05:15

reason.

01:05:16 --> 01:05:19

Right? Human beings have reason. That figures into

01:05:19 --> 01:05:21

a response to the Angel's question, why create

01:05:21 --> 01:05:24

this most destructive bee? Second thing he seemed

01:05:24 --> 01:05:26

to be emphasizing is choice and human and

01:05:26 --> 01:05:29

the human being is a creature of choice,

01:05:29 --> 01:05:31

and and he can make moral choices. God

01:05:31 --> 01:05:34

has empowered him to make moral choices and

01:05:34 --> 01:05:36

to see them through to their normally expected

01:05:36 --> 01:05:36

conclusions.

01:05:37 --> 01:05:38

At least that's what it seemed to be

01:05:38 --> 01:05:40

hinting at. And I have to read the

01:05:40 --> 01:05:42

rest of the Quran to see if that

01:05:42 --> 01:05:44

was really true. 3rd thing that seemed to

01:05:44 --> 01:05:46

be emphasized in the story was that human

01:05:46 --> 01:05:49

beings will suffer. And God just says, yeah,

01:05:49 --> 01:05:50

they're gonna suffer.

01:05:51 --> 01:05:53

4th thing he seems to emphasize, we're not

01:05:53 --> 01:05:55

put here as a punishment.

01:05:56 --> 01:05:59

We're not put here as a punishment. Because

01:05:59 --> 01:06:01

notice when he forgives Adam, he doesn't pop

01:06:01 --> 01:06:03

him and his he and his wife back

01:06:03 --> 01:06:04

in heaven.

01:06:05 --> 01:06:06

As a matter of fact, there was nothing

01:06:06 --> 01:06:08

in the story to indicate that this life

01:06:08 --> 01:06:09

was a punishment.

01:06:09 --> 01:06:11

But when I read that verse that said

01:06:11 --> 01:06:13

he had forgiven Adam and and Eve, I

01:06:13 --> 01:06:15

thought, okay, put him back in heaven. You

01:06:15 --> 01:06:16

forgave him.

01:06:18 --> 01:06:20

You know, when I penalize my daughters for

01:06:20 --> 01:06:23

doing something wrong, I subtract $5 from their

01:06:23 --> 01:06:24

allowance.

01:06:24 --> 01:06:26

If they come and cry, I ought to

01:06:26 --> 01:06:27

my wife says I'm a marshmallow.

01:06:28 --> 01:06:29

If they come and cry, I mean, I

01:06:29 --> 01:06:31

say, okay, okay, you'll forgive

01:06:38 --> 01:06:39

was forgiven.

01:06:41 --> 01:06:42

Make up your mind.

01:06:43 --> 01:06:44

Am I punished or am I forgiven?

01:06:45 --> 01:06:47

Oh, you're forgiven, but I'll keep the $5.

01:06:49 --> 01:06:51

That's not fair. You forgave me.

01:06:52 --> 01:06:53

So why doesn't god put Adam and Eve

01:06:53 --> 01:06:54

back into heaven?

01:06:55 --> 01:06:55

Because life is not a punishment. This is

01:06:55 --> 01:06:55

from the beginning of the story to the

01:06:55 --> 01:06:56

end.

01:06:57 --> 01:06:58

Very beginning, and it was consistent throughout, that

01:06:58 --> 01:06:58

he's gonna put them there as his representative,

01:06:58 --> 01:06:58

potentially, on our own. We had known from

01:06:58 --> 01:06:59

the very beginning, and it was consistent throughout,

01:07:05 --> 01:07:07

that he's gonna put them there

01:07:07 --> 01:07:08

as his representative,

01:07:08 --> 01:07:10

potentially, on earth.

01:07:10 --> 01:07:12

Human beings have the potential to represent them.

01:07:13 --> 01:07:15

Somehow that figures in to response to the

01:07:15 --> 01:07:18

Angel's question. So 3 things are emphasized. Well,

01:07:18 --> 01:07:19

1, life is not a punishment.

01:07:20 --> 01:07:20

2,

01:07:20 --> 01:07:23

human beings are creatures of intellect. 3, they

01:07:23 --> 01:07:25

have the ability to make choices. They have

01:07:26 --> 01:07:27

the ability

01:07:27 --> 01:07:28

to exercise

01:07:28 --> 01:07:31

will. And 3rd, that they're going to suffer.

01:07:31 --> 01:07:34

And somehow, it seems, the author was emphasizing

01:07:34 --> 01:07:36

these in the story of man. Now I

01:07:36 --> 01:07:39

thought I could just be wrong, deluding myself,

01:07:39 --> 01:07:42

really, projecting my own neurosis onto this story,

01:07:42 --> 01:07:43

my own childhood

01:07:43 --> 01:07:45

trauma onto the story. So

01:07:46 --> 01:07:48

as I read through the Koran, I tried

01:07:48 --> 01:07:51

to keep my mind and eye open for

01:07:51 --> 01:07:53

anything that would contradict what I had thought.

01:07:54 --> 01:07:56

And as I read through it, sure enough,

01:07:56 --> 01:07:57

I found confirmation

01:07:58 --> 01:07:59

of just of what I just said.

01:08:01 --> 01:08:01

Reason,

01:08:02 --> 01:08:05

man's ability to reason, gets such strong emphasis

01:08:05 --> 01:08:06

in the Quran

01:08:06 --> 01:08:08

that sometimes you would think

01:08:08 --> 01:08:10

that the author

01:08:10 --> 01:08:13

is some kind of, you know, tremendous

01:08:14 --> 01:08:18

has a tremendous faith in philosophy and reason,

01:08:18 --> 01:08:20

like no other religious mind in history, because

01:08:20 --> 01:08:23

I was always taught that reason and faith

01:08:24 --> 01:08:24

conflict,

01:08:25 --> 01:08:28

that somewhere along the line, you know, they

01:08:28 --> 01:08:31

contradict the age old conflict between faith and

01:08:31 --> 01:08:35

reason. If you take reason too far, you'll

01:08:35 --> 01:08:35

naturally

01:08:36 --> 01:08:39

get arrive at conflicts with faith. This author

01:08:39 --> 01:08:42

author says exactly the opposite, saying that people

01:08:43 --> 01:08:45

do not believe, or people that come come

01:08:45 --> 01:08:48

upon false beliefs because they do not use

01:08:48 --> 01:08:48

their

01:08:49 --> 01:08:50

reason. He makes the point again and again

01:08:50 --> 01:08:53

and again. He puts so much emphasis on

01:08:53 --> 01:08:55

reason that one famous Western

01:08:56 --> 01:08:58

Orientalist who studied the Quran said, the Quran

01:08:58 --> 01:09:01

puts so much emphasis on reason

01:09:01 --> 01:09:04

that you would think that disbelief is nothing

01:09:04 --> 01:09:07

more than an infirmity of the human mind,

01:09:08 --> 01:09:10

an inability to use it like an illness

01:09:10 --> 01:09:11

in your mind,

01:09:13 --> 01:09:14

Mental sickness,

01:09:15 --> 01:09:17

that's how much emphasis he puts on reason.

01:09:18 --> 01:09:20

That was Henri Lamens who said that.

01:09:20 --> 01:09:21

Another orientalist,

01:09:29 --> 01:09:30

Robinson, one

01:09:30 --> 01:09:31

of the leading

01:09:32 --> 01:09:34

orientalists in France wrote, the Quran

01:09:35 --> 01:09:37

continually expounds the rational proofs

01:09:38 --> 01:09:39

of God's omnipotence.

01:09:39 --> 01:09:42

The wonders of creation, such as the gestation

01:09:42 --> 01:09:43

of animals,

01:09:43 --> 01:09:45

the movement of heavenly bodies,

01:09:45 --> 01:09:48

atmospheric phenomena, the variety of animal and vegetable

01:09:48 --> 01:09:51

life, so marvelously well adapted to men's needs.

01:09:51 --> 01:09:53

He's not a Muslim,

01:09:53 --> 01:09:55

but he he was impressed by this. He

01:09:55 --> 01:09:58

said, all those things are signs for those

01:09:58 --> 01:10:00

of insight, and he quotes the Quran here.

01:10:01 --> 01:10:03

Repeated about 50 times in the Quran is

01:10:03 --> 01:10:06

the Arabic verb which means to connect ideas

01:10:06 --> 01:10:09

together, to reason, to no

01:10:09 --> 01:10:09

sense?

01:10:14 --> 01:10:16

Will you not use your reason? No sense?

01:10:16 --> 01:10:18

Will you not use your reason?

01:10:19 --> 01:10:21

The infidels, those who remain insensible

01:10:22 --> 01:10:25

to Mohammed's preaching are stigmatized as a people

01:10:25 --> 01:10:26

of no

01:10:26 --> 01:10:26

intelligence.

01:10:27 --> 01:10:31

Persons incapable of the intellectual effort needed to

01:10:31 --> 01:10:33

cast off routine thinking, and he gives several

01:10:33 --> 01:10:36

references. In this respect, they're like cattle.

01:10:40 --> 01:10:43

The Quran complains that people

01:10:43 --> 01:10:46

disbelieve or corrupt religion because they do not

01:10:46 --> 01:10:47

use

01:10:47 --> 01:10:50

the the reason. They refuse to reason, says

01:10:50 --> 01:10:52

the Quran. And I have 10 references here.

01:10:52 --> 01:10:54

And there are people who do not reason,

01:10:54 --> 01:10:56

says the Quran. And I have 12 references

01:10:56 --> 01:10:56

here.

01:11:04 --> 01:11:07

Reveals signs, lessons and admonitions so that perhaps

01:11:07 --> 01:11:10

you will use your reason, the Quran says

01:11:10 --> 01:11:12

again and again. From the author's viewpoint,

01:11:13 --> 01:11:15

reason and faith are allies as are

01:11:16 --> 01:11:18

illogic and false belief. And he clearly sets

01:11:18 --> 01:11:21

a conflict along these lines. The right way

01:11:21 --> 01:11:23

is clearly distinct from error, he says.

01:11:24 --> 01:11:26

Those who benefit most from the Quran, the

01:11:26 --> 01:11:28

author says are persons of insight,

01:11:28 --> 01:11:31

firmly rooted in knowledge, used to reason, and

01:11:31 --> 01:11:33

stand on clear evidence and proof.

01:11:33 --> 01:11:35

While those who oppose revelations,

01:11:35 --> 01:11:37

the revelation are deluded

01:11:37 --> 01:11:41

and manifest error, ignorant, foolish, have no understanding,

01:11:41 --> 01:11:45

only follow surmise and conjecture, and blindly adhere

01:11:45 --> 01:11:47

adhere to to to, excuse me, to tradition.

01:11:48 --> 01:11:51

In an almost Socratic style, the author asked

01:11:51 --> 01:11:54

the reader again and again and again, what

01:11:54 --> 01:11:55

do you think?

01:11:55 --> 01:11:58

Have you considered this? Do you suppose?

01:11:58 --> 01:11:59

Do you ponder?

01:11:59 --> 01:12:00

Do not think?

01:12:01 --> 01:12:02

Message is clear.

01:12:03 --> 01:12:04

And in order to be guided

01:12:05 --> 01:12:07

to truer faith, we need to free ourselves

01:12:07 --> 01:12:10

from inherited notions and examine our beliefs

01:12:10 --> 01:12:11

rationally.

01:12:12 --> 01:12:14

That was clearly the position of the author.

01:12:14 --> 01:12:16

I thought he was walking a dangerous

01:12:18 --> 01:12:19

slippery slope.

01:12:19 --> 01:12:21

Because once you start pushing too much for

01:12:21 --> 01:12:23

reason, you'll eventually start

01:12:24 --> 01:12:25

trapping yourself

01:12:25 --> 01:12:28

and presenting a system that cannot stand up

01:12:28 --> 01:12:29

to its demands.

01:12:30 --> 01:12:31

But I was intrigued.

01:12:33 --> 01:12:34

Does the author also

01:12:35 --> 01:12:35

emphasize

01:12:36 --> 01:12:37

excuse me.

01:12:38 --> 01:12:40

Choice, like I thought he does did.

01:12:41 --> 01:12:43

Does he emphasize that human beings are a

01:12:43 --> 01:12:45

choosing creature and this plays a major role

01:12:45 --> 01:12:47

in their development on earth? And the answer

01:12:47 --> 01:12:48

is yes.

01:12:49 --> 01:12:52

Let there be no compulsion in religion. The

01:12:52 --> 01:12:54

right way is henceforth clearly distinct from error,

01:12:54 --> 01:12:56

he says. In another verse,

01:12:57 --> 01:12:58

had we willed,

01:12:59 --> 01:13:01

had God willed, he could indeed have guided

01:13:01 --> 01:13:02

all of you.

01:13:03 --> 01:13:06

He could have indeed have guided all of

01:13:06 --> 01:13:06

you.

01:13:07 --> 01:13:08

I thought I read those when I would

01:13:08 --> 01:13:11

come across those verses, I'd say, why not?

01:13:12 --> 01:13:13

Guide us all.

01:13:14 --> 01:13:16

Why did you not do that?

01:13:17 --> 01:13:19

Do not the believers know that had God

01:13:19 --> 01:13:21

willed, he could have guided all mankind?

01:13:22 --> 01:13:23

Why didn't he?

01:13:24 --> 01:13:25

Why didn't he make us capable

01:13:26 --> 01:13:27

of choosing the wrong way?

01:13:28 --> 01:13:30

And if God had willed, we could have

01:13:30 --> 01:13:32

given every soul its guidance.

01:13:33 --> 01:13:35

Okay. Make us all clones of one another,

01:13:35 --> 01:13:36

rightly guided angels.

01:13:37 --> 01:13:38

Steady doesn't.

01:13:39 --> 01:13:42

He lets us make choices, lets us make

01:13:42 --> 01:13:43

errors, lets us make mistakes,

01:13:44 --> 01:13:46

gives us an intellect.

01:13:46 --> 01:13:49

Quran emphasized, hopefully you will learn from your

01:13:49 --> 01:13:49

mistakes.

01:13:51 --> 01:13:53

The Quran puts so much emphasis on trial

01:13:53 --> 01:13:54

and error.

01:13:55 --> 01:13:56

It says it explicitly

01:13:57 --> 01:13:59

many, many times. You will face trial.

01:14:00 --> 01:14:01

You will face trial.

01:14:01 --> 01:14:03

We tried you this way. We tried you

01:14:03 --> 01:14:05

that way. We tried you this way. We

01:14:05 --> 01:14:07

test you this way. We test you that

01:14:07 --> 01:14:10

way. So it's like it's a professor talking

01:14:10 --> 01:14:12

to his class. It has an almost academic

01:14:12 --> 01:14:12

tone.

01:14:14 --> 01:14:15

And you will

01:14:18 --> 01:14:21

And hopefully, you will correct your errors, it

01:14:21 --> 01:14:22

says. You will repent.

01:14:22 --> 01:14:24

You will realize your error and turn yourself

01:14:24 --> 01:14:25

around.

01:14:27 --> 01:14:29

Enlightenment has come from your god. He who

01:14:29 --> 01:14:32

sees does so to his own good. He

01:14:32 --> 01:14:34

who is blind is so to his own

01:14:34 --> 01:14:36

hurt. It is your choice.

01:14:38 --> 01:14:40

And whoever is guided is only to his

01:14:40 --> 01:14:43

own gain. And if any stray, say, I

01:14:43 --> 01:14:44

am only a warner,

01:14:44 --> 01:14:45

tells the prophet.

01:14:46 --> 01:14:48

It's up to you. I don't make your

01:14:48 --> 01:14:49

choices for you.

01:14:50 --> 01:14:52

And God wants us to choose on our

01:14:52 --> 01:14:54

own. We have revealed to you the book

01:14:54 --> 01:14:55

with the truth for mankind.

01:14:55 --> 01:14:58

He who lets himself be guided does so

01:14:58 --> 01:15:00

to his own good. He who lets himself

01:15:00 --> 01:15:02

astray does so to his own hurt.

01:15:02 --> 01:15:03

It's your choice.

01:15:04 --> 01:15:06

And the Quran says that in an almost

01:15:06 --> 01:15:07

dispassionate tone.

01:15:08 --> 01:15:09

It's your choice.

01:15:09 --> 01:15:11

You have the right to choose. God's not

01:15:11 --> 01:15:13

going to force the choices down your throat.

01:15:13 --> 01:15:15

He's not going to make you do anything

01:15:16 --> 01:15:19

when it comes to primary critical moral choices.

01:15:19 --> 01:15:21

You have to make them yourself, he's essentially

01:15:21 --> 01:15:21

telling

01:15:22 --> 01:15:22

the audience.

01:15:26 --> 01:15:27

What does he have to say about

01:15:28 --> 01:15:30

Okay. I was intrigued. The author was consistent.

01:15:31 --> 01:15:34

Emphasizes reason, emphasizes choice. What does he have

01:15:34 --> 01:15:35

to say about suffering?

01:15:36 --> 01:15:38

Well, here's what he has to say.

01:15:39 --> 01:15:41

Is it really necessary? I thought, what possible

01:15:41 --> 01:15:42

purpose can it serve?

01:15:43 --> 01:15:45

Most assuredly, we we will try you with

01:15:45 --> 01:15:47

something of danger and hunger and the loss

01:15:47 --> 01:15:50

of worldly goods, of your loss of your

01:15:50 --> 01:15:52

lives and the fruits of your labor. But

01:15:52 --> 01:15:54

give glad tidings to those who are patient

01:15:54 --> 01:15:55

in adversity,

01:15:55 --> 01:15:58

who in calamity befalls them, say, truly under

01:15:58 --> 01:16:00

god, we do we belong, and truly under

01:16:00 --> 01:16:01

him, we shall

01:16:02 --> 01:16:04

return. Most assuredly, we will try you, the

01:16:04 --> 01:16:07

Quran says, with danger, suffering, loss of worldly

01:16:07 --> 01:16:10

goods, thank you, lives and the fruits of

01:16:10 --> 01:16:10

your labor.

01:16:12 --> 01:16:13

K? Most assuredly

01:16:14 --> 01:16:15

oh, can somebody get that for me?

01:16:18 --> 01:16:19

But most assuredly,

01:16:19 --> 01:16:23

you will suffer. Why? I thought. Why?

01:16:24 --> 01:16:26

Do you think that you can enter paradise

01:16:26 --> 01:16:28

without having suffered like those who passed away

01:16:28 --> 01:16:29

before you?

01:16:30 --> 01:16:30

Why not?

01:16:31 --> 01:16:32

Just pop us up.

01:16:34 --> 01:16:36

Beam me up, Scotty, I thought to myself.

01:16:38 --> 01:16:39

Do you think that you could enter paradise

01:16:39 --> 01:16:41

without having suffered like those who passed away

01:16:41 --> 01:16:43

before you? Why not?

01:16:44 --> 01:16:46

Misfortune and hardship befell them, and so shaken

01:16:46 --> 01:16:49

were they that the apostle we're talking about

01:16:49 --> 01:16:50

good people here suffering.

01:16:51 --> 01:16:53

That the apostle and the believers with him

01:16:53 --> 01:16:54

would exclaim,

01:16:54 --> 01:16:55

when will God's help come?

01:16:57 --> 01:17:00

Oh, truly, God's help is always near, the

01:17:00 --> 01:17:00

verse says.

01:17:01 --> 01:17:03

You are gonna suffer.

01:17:04 --> 01:17:04

Why?

01:17:05 --> 01:17:07

You will certainly be tried in your possessions

01:17:07 --> 01:17:10

and yourselves, it says. Another verse, every soul

01:17:10 --> 01:17:11

must taste of death,

01:17:12 --> 01:17:13

and we will try you with calamity

01:17:14 --> 01:17:14

and prosperity,

01:17:15 --> 01:17:17

both as a means of trial. We'll test

01:17:17 --> 01:17:18

you with both.

01:17:19 --> 01:17:21

What's the point of it? And to us,

01:17:21 --> 01:17:22

you are returned.

01:17:24 --> 01:17:25

In another verse it

01:17:26 --> 01:17:27

says, oh, mankind,

01:17:28 --> 01:17:30

truly have been toiling towards your Lord in

01:17:30 --> 01:17:33

painful toil, but you shall meet him.

01:17:34 --> 01:17:36

How do you toil towards God?

01:17:37 --> 01:17:38

How does suffering

01:17:39 --> 01:17:41

bring us any closer to God?

01:17:43 --> 01:17:44

Just

01:17:44 --> 01:17:45

do you know?

01:17:48 --> 01:17:50

I know a lot of you do, but,

01:17:50 --> 01:17:52

you know, it's a rhetorical question. You know,

01:17:52 --> 01:17:53

it's sort of a well, never mind.

01:17:56 --> 01:17:57

This verse,

01:17:58 --> 01:17:59

I was ready to

01:18:00 --> 01:18:02

just throw the Koran down. I got so

01:18:02 --> 01:18:04

angry when I read the beginning of this

01:18:04 --> 01:18:06

one. We certainly have created man to face

01:18:06 --> 01:18:06

distress.

01:18:07 --> 01:18:09

We first certainly have created man to face

01:18:09 --> 01:18:10

distress. What?

01:18:11 --> 01:18:13

We certainly have created man to face distress.

01:18:13 --> 01:18:16

You created us to face distress? You created

01:18:16 --> 01:18:17

us to suffer?

01:18:21 --> 01:18:23

Are we made to face distress?

01:18:24 --> 01:18:25

I'd start to think about it in another

01:18:25 --> 01:18:26

way.

01:18:26 --> 01:18:28

Are we eminently well suited for it to

01:18:28 --> 01:18:29

face distress?

01:18:30 --> 01:18:33

Are we a creature that thrives on distress?

01:18:33 --> 01:18:35

Do we thrive on suffering?

01:18:36 --> 01:18:38

Does that play a major role in our

01:18:38 --> 01:18:39

development, in our progress, in our progress, in

01:18:39 --> 01:18:42

our growth? When I thought about it that

01:18:42 --> 01:18:44

way, I said, yes, of course.

01:18:44 --> 01:18:46

I could see that in this life,

01:18:47 --> 01:18:50

we are eminently well suited to face distress

01:18:50 --> 01:18:52

more than any other creature about us.

01:18:52 --> 01:18:54

And that sort of charts

01:18:55 --> 01:18:57

our intellectual evolution and our progress.

01:18:58 --> 01:19:00

But how could that bring us any closer

01:19:00 --> 01:19:00

to God?

01:19:00 --> 01:19:02

What does that have to do with our

01:19:02 --> 01:19:04

relationship with God? What does that have anything

01:19:04 --> 01:19:05

to do with the here

01:19:05 --> 01:19:08

after? Does he think that no one has

01:19:08 --> 01:19:10

power over him? He will say, I have

01:19:10 --> 01:19:11

wasted much wealth.

01:19:11 --> 01:19:13

Does he think that no one sees him?

01:19:14 --> 01:19:16

He's trying to say, Are you you think

01:19:16 --> 01:19:17

you're down here alone just going through this

01:19:17 --> 01:19:19

for no point or purpose?

01:19:20 --> 01:19:22

Have we not given him 2 eyes to

01:19:22 --> 01:19:25

see with, a tongue to speak and communicate

01:19:25 --> 01:19:28

with, and 2 lips to communicate with, and

01:19:28 --> 01:19:30

pointed out to him the 2 conspicuous ways?

01:19:31 --> 01:19:33

What are the 2 conspicuous ways?

01:19:34 --> 01:19:36

Haven't I given you all these things to

01:19:36 --> 01:19:38

to see and to learn with and to

01:19:38 --> 01:19:38

communicate with? Can't you

01:19:46 --> 01:19:46

2

01:19:47 --> 01:19:49

Can't you see the 2 conspicuous ways?

01:19:50 --> 01:19:52

When I read this verse, I was at

01:19:52 --> 01:19:54

the 90th chapter of the Quran.

01:19:55 --> 01:19:56

I had, like, 30 pages to go, and

01:19:56 --> 01:19:58

I still was in the dark.

01:19:59 --> 01:20:02

What two conspicuous ways? What can I see?

01:20:05 --> 01:20:07

And what will make you comprehend Oh, but

01:20:07 --> 01:20:10

he attempts not the uphill climb. And what

01:20:10 --> 01:20:13

will make you comprehend the uphill climb? Is

01:20:13 --> 01:20:15

life an uphill climb? Why does life have

01:20:15 --> 01:20:17

to be an uphill climb? Why can't it

01:20:17 --> 01:20:18

be a downward slope

01:20:19 --> 01:20:20

or a level surface?

01:20:20 --> 01:20:22

Why does it have to be an upward

01:20:22 --> 01:20:22

climb?

01:20:23 --> 01:20:25

Why does it have to be hard?

01:20:25 --> 01:20:27

And what will make you comprehend the uphill

01:20:27 --> 01:20:27

climb?

01:20:28 --> 01:20:30

It is to free a slave or to

01:20:30 --> 01:20:31

feed in a day of hunger, an orphan

01:20:31 --> 01:20:34

nearly related, or the poor one lying in

01:20:34 --> 01:20:34

the dust.

01:20:35 --> 01:20:38

Then he or she is of those who

01:20:38 --> 01:20:40

believe. Then he or she is one of

01:20:40 --> 01:20:43

those who exhorts one another to patience.

01:20:44 --> 01:20:46

Then he or she is one of those

01:20:46 --> 01:20:48

who exhorts others to mercy.

01:20:50 --> 01:20:50

What?

01:20:51 --> 01:20:52

The 2 conspicuous ways?

01:20:53 --> 01:20:55

These are the 2 conspicuous ways? The uphill

01:20:55 --> 01:20:56

climb is 1?

01:20:58 --> 01:21:00

And what is it about? Helping others? Self

01:21:00 --> 01:21:01

sacrifice?

01:21:02 --> 01:21:04

Freeing a slave? Helping a poor one lying

01:21:04 --> 01:21:05

in the dust?

01:21:06 --> 01:21:07

Giving of yourself?

01:21:08 --> 01:21:09

When I read this first,

01:21:10 --> 01:21:11

the first thing I thought about, believe it

01:21:11 --> 01:21:13

or not, was my mother.

01:21:15 --> 01:21:17

Because my mom had always told me that,

01:21:17 --> 01:21:20

Jeff, life is not about taking.

01:21:20 --> 01:21:22

Life is not about succeeding.

01:21:23 --> 01:21:26

Life is not about obtaining your material goals.

01:21:26 --> 01:21:28

Life, Jeff, is about giving.

01:21:29 --> 01:21:31

Life is about giving to others. He said,

01:21:31 --> 01:21:33

as long as you have something to give,

01:21:33 --> 01:21:36

no matter how small, you're never poor, you're

01:21:36 --> 01:21:37

always rich.

01:21:37 --> 01:21:38

I said to her, Mom,

01:21:39 --> 01:21:40

you just don't get it,

01:21:41 --> 01:21:43

do you? Life is not about giving, mom.

01:21:43 --> 01:21:45

Knife is not about self sacrifice.

01:21:45 --> 01:21:49

Life is about getting ahead. Life is about

01:21:49 --> 01:21:51

protecting oneself. Life is about not letting people

01:21:51 --> 01:21:53

step on you. Life is about

01:21:54 --> 01:21:56

insulating yourself from harm for as long as

01:21:56 --> 01:21:59

you can. This world mom, that status taught

01:21:59 --> 01:22:02

me, and he's right, is a dog eat

01:22:02 --> 01:22:03

dog world.

01:22:04 --> 01:22:06

And it's not about any of the things

01:22:06 --> 01:22:08

you say, it's about survival.

01:22:10 --> 01:22:13

But here at 28 years old, when I

01:22:13 --> 01:22:13

thought back

01:22:14 --> 01:22:15

on my mom,

01:22:16 --> 01:22:18

I realized that she was always a peaceful,

01:22:19 --> 01:22:20

happy, contented,

01:22:21 --> 01:22:22

restful, serene

01:22:23 --> 01:22:23

person.

01:22:25 --> 01:22:26

And at the same time,

01:22:26 --> 01:22:27

I was

01:22:28 --> 01:22:28

angry,

01:22:29 --> 01:22:29

hostile.

01:22:30 --> 01:22:32

I wouldn't show it to people around me,

01:22:32 --> 01:22:33

but inside I felt

01:22:34 --> 01:22:36

it. I felt that life was empty, chaotic,

01:22:37 --> 01:22:37

uncertain,

01:22:38 --> 01:22:39

fragile,

01:22:40 --> 01:22:40

scary.

01:22:44 --> 01:22:46

When I read this first, I realized that

01:22:46 --> 01:22:48

at least in that sense, my the Quran

01:22:48 --> 01:22:50

was right, and so was my mom. There

01:22:50 --> 01:22:52

are 2 conspicuous ways. If you just look

01:22:52 --> 01:22:53

around you, look at the people that are

01:22:53 --> 01:22:55

happy, look at the people that really seem

01:22:55 --> 01:22:56

to have joy in life,

01:22:57 --> 01:22:59

the real joyful people in life,

01:22:59 --> 01:23:01

the people who give of themselves,

01:23:01 --> 01:23:04

who self sac who who engage in self

01:23:04 --> 01:23:06

sacrifice, and they can't seem to get enough.

01:23:06 --> 01:23:08

And you look at the people who squander

01:23:08 --> 01:23:09

and hoard,

01:23:10 --> 01:23:11

and they're miserable.

01:23:12 --> 01:23:14

They never could get enough.

01:23:16 --> 01:23:19

I realize that there are 2 conspicuous ways

01:23:19 --> 01:23:19

in life,

01:23:20 --> 01:23:21

but I didn't see how that had to

01:23:21 --> 01:23:22

do with anything

01:23:22 --> 01:23:25

that any ultimate purpose behind it. Is that

01:23:25 --> 01:23:27

what the author is saying, I thought? That

01:23:27 --> 01:23:29

life is just to be good and nice

01:23:29 --> 01:23:31

to people so you feel good inside? As

01:23:31 --> 01:23:33

Michael Jackson used to say, to make the

01:23:33 --> 01:23:35

world a better place for you and me.

01:23:35 --> 01:23:36

No. Is that it?

01:23:37 --> 01:23:39

I couldn't find a connection,

01:23:40 --> 01:23:42

and I never did. So goodbye.

01:23:44 --> 01:23:44

No.

01:23:46 --> 01:23:47

But we're almost out of time, so I'll

01:23:47 --> 01:23:49

try to tie this up. It's hard, you

01:23:49 --> 01:23:51

know. This takes a 100 pages of my

01:23:51 --> 01:23:52

next book.

01:23:53 --> 01:23:53

Okay, I thought.

01:23:55 --> 01:23:57

The author claims that these things, suffering, choice,

01:23:57 --> 01:23:59

intellect, play a role in our

01:24:00 --> 01:24:01

in something, in our purpose

01:24:08 --> 01:24:11

does would concentrate on what this kind of

01:24:11 --> 01:24:13

person does god wanna produce.

01:24:14 --> 01:24:15

And Sharinah,

01:24:15 --> 01:24:17

it's not hard to find. The Quran says

01:24:17 --> 01:24:19

that god intends to produce

01:24:28 --> 01:24:30

as a relationship of love.

01:24:32 --> 01:24:33

And it says it again and again.

01:24:34 --> 01:24:36

For example, yet there are men who take

01:24:36 --> 01:24:39

others besides God as equal, loving them as

01:24:39 --> 01:24:40

they should love God,

01:24:40 --> 01:24:43

but those who believe love God more ardently.

01:24:44 --> 01:24:46

Say another verse, if you love God, follow

01:24:46 --> 01:24:48

me and God will love you, and forgive

01:24:48 --> 01:24:50

you your faults, for God is the forgiving,

01:24:50 --> 01:24:51

the merciful.

01:24:52 --> 01:24:54

Oh, you who believe, if any fellow among

01:24:54 --> 01:24:56

you should turn back from his faith, then

01:24:56 --> 01:24:59

God will surely bring a people he loves

01:24:59 --> 01:25:00

and who love him.

01:25:02 --> 01:25:04

In many places, it also says, God loves

01:25:04 --> 01:25:06

this type of person. God loves that type

01:25:06 --> 01:25:09

of person. God loves this and people. God

01:25:09 --> 01:25:11

loves that and doesn't love this type of

01:25:11 --> 01:25:13

people, doesn't love people who do that.

01:25:14 --> 01:25:16

Or not people, but mostly the acts. God

01:25:16 --> 01:25:18

does not love the transgressor. God does not

01:25:18 --> 01:25:20

love the hateful. God does not and so

01:25:20 --> 01:25:21

forth.

01:25:22 --> 01:25:24

And the Quran assures us that through this

01:25:24 --> 01:25:27

earthly experience, especially watch the conversations in the

01:25:27 --> 01:25:30

Quran between Satan and God.

01:25:31 --> 01:25:33

God is always in total control.

01:25:33 --> 01:25:35

Satan in the Quran is really rather a

01:25:35 --> 01:25:36

weak creature.

01:25:37 --> 01:25:40

In other traditions, he might have tremendous power.

01:25:40 --> 01:25:42

But in the Koran, he says, I have

01:25:42 --> 01:25:43

no power over you.

01:25:44 --> 01:25:46

I but whisper and you follow.

01:25:48 --> 01:25:49

Remember? And it says on the day of

01:25:49 --> 01:25:52

judgment, he's gonna say to those who followed

01:25:52 --> 01:25:54

him, I had no power over you whatsoever.

01:25:55 --> 01:25:56

I only whisper

01:25:56 --> 01:25:57

and you follow.

01:25:58 --> 01:26:01

But in the conversations between God and Satan

01:26:01 --> 01:26:01

in the Quran,

01:26:03 --> 01:26:06

we re it reveals something very important. That,

01:26:06 --> 01:26:08

yes, there will be people who go astray.

01:26:08 --> 01:26:10

Yes, there will be people that destroy themselves

01:26:10 --> 01:26:13

in this life. But God guarantees in the

01:26:13 --> 01:26:15

Quran that there will be a subset of

01:26:15 --> 01:26:16

humanity.

01:26:16 --> 01:26:19

Though there will definitely this human experience will

01:26:19 --> 01:26:22

produce those who choose to enter a relationship

01:26:22 --> 01:26:24

with God, who choose to be bound by

01:26:24 --> 01:26:27

God in love, and if God will love

01:26:27 --> 01:26:30

in mutually. They they'll enter in a mutual

01:26:30 --> 01:26:32

relationship of love.

01:26:32 --> 01:26:33

They will

01:26:33 --> 01:26:36

definitely this earthly experience will definitely produce those

01:26:36 --> 01:26:36

type

01:26:38 --> 01:26:40

of people. Okay. But, I mean, this is

01:26:40 --> 01:26:42

just too much to handle. I have all

01:26:42 --> 01:26:44

these questions in my mind, all these things

01:26:45 --> 01:26:47

to deal with, choice, reason,

01:26:48 --> 01:26:48

suffering.

01:26:49 --> 01:26:51

God hopes God tends to produce through this

01:26:51 --> 01:26:55

earthly experience and says it certainly will produce

01:26:55 --> 01:26:57

a subset of this humanity that will enter

01:26:57 --> 01:27:00

into a relationship of love with him. What

01:27:00 --> 01:27:01

does that have to do with all these

01:27:01 --> 01:27:04

other things, suffering, choice, etcetera? Couldn't he just

01:27:04 --> 01:27:06

make us love him, program us to love

01:27:06 --> 01:27:08

him, love us in return, pop us into

01:27:08 --> 01:27:10

heaven, avoid the suffering?

01:27:16 --> 01:27:16

Okay.

01:27:17 --> 01:27:18

So,

01:27:19 --> 01:27:21

Kron says that god wants to enter into

01:27:21 --> 01:27:21

a relationship

01:27:22 --> 01:27:23

with humanity,

01:27:23 --> 01:27:26

and that this human experience will definitely

01:27:26 --> 01:27:29

produce a certain segment that will relate to

01:27:29 --> 01:27:31

him. So here I am. I'm done with

01:27:31 --> 01:27:31

the Quran,

01:27:32 --> 01:27:34

and I'm trying to think, what could the

01:27:34 --> 01:27:36

possible connection be? So what's the natural place

01:27:36 --> 01:27:37

to look?

01:27:38 --> 01:27:40

Well, if it has to do with the

01:27:40 --> 01:27:42

relationship between God, we should look in the

01:27:42 --> 01:27:42

Quran

01:27:43 --> 01:27:45

what the Quran expects from man

01:27:46 --> 01:27:48

and what the Quran tells us of God,

01:27:49 --> 01:27:51

and then we try to see if there's

01:27:51 --> 01:27:53

any relationship between the 2.

01:27:54 --> 01:27:56

And that seems like a natural thing to

01:27:56 --> 01:27:56

do.

01:27:57 --> 01:27:59

As if the issue comes down to relating

01:27:59 --> 01:28:01

to God, we should discover in the Quran

01:28:02 --> 01:28:03

what it says about the believers

01:28:04 --> 01:28:05

and the disbelievers,

01:28:05 --> 01:28:07

those who are brought near to god and

01:28:07 --> 01:28:09

those who are not, and god, and see

01:28:09 --> 01:28:12

if there's any possible connection between the 2.

01:28:15 --> 01:28:15

Okay.

01:28:16 --> 01:28:17

So,

01:28:17 --> 01:28:20

what does the Quran expect for mankind?

01:28:21 --> 01:28:23

Well, it's so simple in the Quran. It's

01:28:23 --> 01:28:24

almost the type of thing you just like

01:28:24 --> 01:28:26

to just read over and, you know, neglect.

01:28:27 --> 01:28:29

Because God expects excuse me,

01:28:33 --> 01:28:33

of people

01:28:34 --> 01:28:34

that

01:28:36 --> 01:28:38

they believe that they will believe and do

01:28:38 --> 01:28:39

good.

01:28:40 --> 01:28:41

What?

01:28:41 --> 01:28:43

Believe and do good?

01:28:44 --> 01:28:46

Okay. I get the belief part. If you're

01:28:46 --> 01:28:47

gonna have definitely.

01:28:49 --> 01:28:50

But

01:28:51 --> 01:28:52

what

01:28:54 --> 01:28:56

does doing good have to do definitely.

01:28:56 --> 01:28:59

But what does doing good have to do

01:28:59 --> 01:29:01

with forging a relationship with God?

01:29:02 --> 01:29:03

You want us to do make us good,

01:29:03 --> 01:29:06

you know, whatever. But even so, what difference

01:29:06 --> 01:29:07

does it make?

01:29:08 --> 01:29:10

So I looked up what kind of acts

01:29:10 --> 01:29:12

the Quran said are good.

01:29:14 --> 01:29:15

And I just wrote a partial of this.

01:29:15 --> 01:29:16

I didn't look them up. I just tried

01:29:16 --> 01:29:17

to remember from my reading

01:29:18 --> 01:29:19

of it. And not unexpectedly,

01:29:20 --> 01:29:22

it consists of those acts and attributes that

01:29:22 --> 01:29:24

are sort of universally recognized as virtuous.

01:29:25 --> 01:29:27

Good deeds are such, for example, we should

01:29:27 --> 01:29:30

show compassion to others. We should be merciful.

01:29:30 --> 01:29:33

We should forgive others. We should be just.

01:29:33 --> 01:29:35

We should protect the weak, defend the oppressed,

01:29:36 --> 01:29:39

feed the poor, seek knowledge and wisdom, be

01:29:39 --> 01:29:40

generous, truthful,

01:29:40 --> 01:29:41

kind, peaceful,

01:29:42 --> 01:29:43

and love others.

01:29:43 --> 01:29:45

And we should teach other these same thing,

01:29:46 --> 01:29:47

and learn them, and grow in them as

01:29:47 --> 01:29:48

well.

01:29:49 --> 01:29:49

But why?

01:29:50 --> 01:29:52

In one verse it says, truly those who

01:29:52 --> 01:29:54

believe and do good will the most merciful

01:29:55 --> 01:29:56

endow with

01:29:57 --> 01:29:57

love.

01:29:58 --> 01:30:00

And to this end, we have made this

01:30:00 --> 01:30:02

easy to understand in your own tongue so

01:30:02 --> 01:30:04

that you may convey this glad news to

01:30:04 --> 01:30:07

the God conscious and warn those given to

01:30:07 --> 01:30:10

contention. You're supposed to grow in love of

01:30:10 --> 01:30:10

your fellow

01:30:10 --> 01:30:11

man. Why?

01:30:12 --> 01:30:13

I had not a clue,

01:30:14 --> 01:30:16

but I did list them. Hope I could

01:30:16 --> 01:30:17

get here without

01:30:17 --> 01:30:18

sabotaging

01:30:18 --> 01:30:18

this.

01:30:20 --> 01:30:22

Somebody left their glasses here.

01:30:24 --> 01:30:26

Okay. So we're supposed to grow

01:30:27 --> 01:30:29

in love of our fellow man. You probably

01:30:29 --> 01:30:30

can't read this anyway,

01:30:30 --> 01:30:32

if you're way in the back.

01:30:32 --> 01:30:32

Compassion.

01:30:33 --> 01:30:34

This is very small.

01:30:35 --> 01:30:36

Love.

01:30:37 --> 01:30:37

Right? Compassion.

01:30:39 --> 01:30:39

Forgiveness.

01:30:40 --> 01:30:42

I just you know, I listed them. I

01:30:42 --> 01:30:43

had nothing else to do that day. I

01:30:43 --> 01:30:45

was watching a football game.

01:30:45 --> 01:30:46

Love, compassion,

01:30:47 --> 01:30:47

forgiveness,

01:30:48 --> 01:30:49

caring,

01:30:49 --> 01:30:50

justice,

01:30:52 --> 01:30:52

truth.

01:30:54 --> 01:30:55

Truth.

01:30:55 --> 01:30:57

What are some of the other ones I

01:30:57 --> 01:30:58

said? Protect the

01:31:00 --> 01:31:02

weak, protective of the weak,

01:31:04 --> 01:31:05

kindness,

01:31:06 --> 01:31:06

forgiveness.

01:31:07 --> 01:31:09

What do I leave out?

01:31:11 --> 01:31:11

Mercy.

01:31:13 --> 01:31:13

Mercy.

01:31:17 --> 01:31:17

Mercy,

01:31:18 --> 01:31:19

compassion, etcetera.

01:31:21 --> 01:31:22

Compassion.

01:31:23 --> 01:31:24

I got compassion.

01:31:26 --> 01:31:27

Okay.

01:31:28 --> 01:31:29

It wasn't very helpful,

01:31:29 --> 01:31:31

but I wrote them down.

01:31:32 --> 01:31:34

Okay. But I didn't complete my project. Okay.

01:31:34 --> 01:31:36

What does the Quran tell us about God?

01:31:36 --> 01:31:38

Now, this is where it gets tricky.

01:31:38 --> 01:31:41

Because the Quran tells us, and naturally it's

01:31:41 --> 01:31:44

so, that nothing compares with God.

01:31:45 --> 01:31:46

That he is beyond

01:31:47 --> 01:31:48

rational definition

01:31:49 --> 01:31:51

or even understanding, I would assume.

01:31:52 --> 01:31:55

Nothing compares to him. Reason cannot encompass him.

01:31:55 --> 01:31:57

If all the trees

01:31:57 --> 01:31:58

were pens,

01:31:59 --> 01:32:01

and all the sea and the sea was

01:32:01 --> 01:32:03

ink, and 7 seas like

01:32:03 --> 01:32:04

it, ink as well,

01:32:05 --> 01:32:08

you could never exhaust the words of God,

01:32:08 --> 01:32:11

the Quran tells us. You could never, in

01:32:11 --> 01:32:12

your reason,

01:32:12 --> 01:32:13

encompass him.

01:32:14 --> 01:32:16

And what good does that do me?

01:32:16 --> 01:32:18

Here I'm trying to see the connection

01:32:19 --> 01:32:20

between us

01:32:20 --> 01:32:21

doing good

01:32:22 --> 01:32:24

and our relationship with God, and there better

01:32:24 --> 01:32:27

be an intrinsic connection, or I'm walking from

01:32:27 --> 01:32:28

this Quran.

01:32:28 --> 01:32:30

Well, I didn't believe in God at this

01:32:30 --> 01:32:30

point anyway.

01:32:31 --> 01:32:34

But there better be an intrinsic connection, or

01:32:34 --> 01:32:36

the author has failed to guide as he

01:32:36 --> 01:32:37

said he would.

01:32:38 --> 01:32:39

But God is incomparable.

01:32:40 --> 01:32:41

He cannot come to know God.

01:32:42 --> 01:32:44

He hardly understand the human mind.

01:32:44 --> 01:32:46

How can we understand God?

01:32:47 --> 01:32:49

How can we come to know God?

01:32:50 --> 01:32:52

I could come to you know you because

01:32:52 --> 01:32:53

I have some sort of

01:32:54 --> 01:32:55

connection to you.

01:32:55 --> 01:32:56

We are alike.

01:32:57 --> 01:32:59

I can approach you physically because you're a

01:32:59 --> 01:33:01

physical creature. I could walk over to you.

01:33:01 --> 01:33:02

Don't get scared.

01:33:04 --> 01:33:04

Alright?

01:33:04 --> 01:33:07

I just move my body closer to yours.

01:33:07 --> 01:33:08

I could approach you

01:33:09 --> 01:33:10

rationally

01:33:10 --> 01:33:11

through the intellect,

01:33:13 --> 01:33:14

right, by discussion,

01:33:15 --> 01:33:16

argumentation, and so forth,

01:33:17 --> 01:33:18

right, by the exercise of reason.

01:33:19 --> 01:33:22

I could approach you guys, any of you,

01:33:22 --> 01:33:23

in terms of feelings,

01:33:25 --> 01:33:27

right, by appealing to your

01:33:28 --> 01:33:29

emotions,

01:33:29 --> 01:33:31

right, because we share them both.

01:33:32 --> 01:33:34

But in order to approach somebody,

01:33:35 --> 01:33:37

you've got to approach them by what they

01:33:37 --> 01:33:37

are.

01:33:39 --> 01:33:41

We could come to understand another because we

01:33:41 --> 01:33:42

share something.

01:33:43 --> 01:33:44

We approach

01:33:44 --> 01:33:46

a creature or a being.

01:33:46 --> 01:33:49

We approach a by what they and we

01:33:49 --> 01:33:49

are.

01:33:49 --> 01:33:52

But how do you approach God? We're finite.

01:33:52 --> 01:33:53

He's infinite.

01:33:54 --> 01:33:56

We're corporeal creatures. He's incorporeal.

01:33:58 --> 01:33:58

We're

01:33:59 --> 01:34:00

limited

01:34:00 --> 01:34:02

to this time and space environment, he transcends

01:34:02 --> 01:34:03

it.

01:34:04 --> 01:34:06

Just about anything you can think of that

01:34:06 --> 01:34:07

we possess,

01:34:07 --> 01:34:10

he possesses it to an infinite degree, transcends

01:34:10 --> 01:34:12

that. We don't compare.

01:34:13 --> 01:34:16

How can we come to know God? How

01:34:16 --> 01:34:18

can we have this relationship you talked about?

01:34:19 --> 01:34:22

Sorry. There's just no answer to that. No,

01:34:22 --> 01:34:24

there is, of course. But that's the way

01:34:24 --> 01:34:25

I felt. Sorry. There's no answer to it.

01:34:25 --> 01:34:27

And so I left the Quran. I finished

01:34:27 --> 01:34:29

reading it. I put it down.

01:34:29 --> 01:34:31

And about 2 weeks passed, and I don't

01:34:31 --> 01:34:33

know what I was doing one day. I

01:34:33 --> 01:34:33

was sitting,

01:34:34 --> 01:34:37

thinking about something totally removed from religion.

01:34:38 --> 01:34:39

Then I thought, wait a minute,

01:34:40 --> 01:34:44

the Quran does provide us some information about

01:34:44 --> 01:34:45

God.

01:34:45 --> 01:34:49

But I had neglected it, ignored it time

01:34:49 --> 01:34:50

and time again.

01:34:50 --> 01:34:51

There are thousands

01:34:52 --> 01:34:53

of descriptions in the Quran

01:34:54 --> 01:34:55

about God

01:34:55 --> 01:34:57

that I just had never seen.

01:34:58 --> 01:35:01

If I just opened to the beginning of

01:35:01 --> 01:35:02

any Surah

01:35:02 --> 01:35:05

or looked on almost any page and came

01:35:05 --> 01:35:07

to the completion of a verse,

01:35:07 --> 01:35:10

I would have found many, many such references.

01:35:10 --> 01:35:12

You know, you all all the Muslims, I'm

01:35:12 --> 01:35:13

sure, know what I'm talking

01:35:13 --> 01:35:15

about. Because throughout the Quran,

01:35:16 --> 01:35:18

time and time again, punctuating passages,

01:35:19 --> 01:35:22

crowning passages, beginning Suras, you find

01:35:23 --> 01:35:25

what the Quran refers to as the beautiful

01:35:25 --> 01:35:27

names of God.

01:35:28 --> 01:35:29

You can't miss them.

01:35:30 --> 01:35:32

And they tell us something about God,

01:35:33 --> 01:35:34

for our benefit.

01:35:36 --> 01:35:37

And as I thought about them in my

01:35:37 --> 01:35:39

head, I began to list them in my

01:35:39 --> 01:35:39

head.

01:35:40 --> 01:35:40

The beautiful

01:35:41 --> 01:35:41

names

01:35:42 --> 01:35:42

of God.

01:35:44 --> 01:35:45

And I thought about them in my head.

01:35:45 --> 01:35:47

What are they? God is

01:35:48 --> 01:35:49

the loving.

01:35:50 --> 01:35:52

God is the compassionate.

01:35:56 --> 01:35:58

God is the forgiving.

01:36:02 --> 01:36:03

God is the caring.

01:36:06 --> 01:36:06

There's

01:36:07 --> 01:36:10

dozens and dozens of them. God is the

01:36:10 --> 01:36:10

just.

01:36:11 --> 01:36:12

He is

01:36:12 --> 01:36:13

the truth

01:36:13 --> 01:36:14

or the truthful.

01:36:15 --> 01:36:16

He is the protector.

01:36:19 --> 01:36:20

He is the kind.

01:36:22 --> 01:36:23

God is the forgiving.

01:36:25 --> 01:36:26

Just read through the Quran, you can't miss

01:36:26 --> 01:36:28

these. He is the merciful.

01:36:33 --> 01:36:34

And on and on and on. I didn't

01:36:34 --> 01:36:36

complete this list and I didn't complete this

01:36:36 --> 01:36:37

one either.

01:36:38 --> 01:36:39

But I looked in my mind

01:36:40 --> 01:36:42

at the two lists I visualized

01:36:43 --> 01:36:45

for the qualities God wants us to develop

01:36:45 --> 01:36:48

and the qualities that the Quran use uses

01:36:48 --> 01:36:50

to describe God.

01:36:51 --> 01:36:55

And then I just immediately saw the whole

01:36:55 --> 01:36:56

saw the picture.

01:36:57 --> 01:36:59

So what the author was telling

01:36:59 --> 01:37:00

us.

01:37:00 --> 01:37:03

Because the author is telling us that, yes,

01:37:03 --> 01:37:05

your reason may not be able to fully

01:37:05 --> 01:37:06

encompass god,

01:37:07 --> 01:37:09

but you are to grow

01:37:10 --> 01:37:11

and learn love.

01:37:12 --> 01:37:14

Grow in your ability

01:37:15 --> 01:37:18

to learn and show love.

01:37:18 --> 01:37:20

Why? Because God is the loving.

01:37:22 --> 01:37:23

The more you grow in compassion,

01:37:24 --> 01:37:26

the more you come to receive and experience

01:37:27 --> 01:37:27

and understand

01:37:29 --> 01:37:32

god's infinite compassion. Because the Quran lets us

01:37:32 --> 01:37:33

know that all compassion ultimately comes from god,

01:37:33 --> 01:37:34

originates from god. The

01:37:43 --> 01:37:44

forgiving

01:37:45 --> 01:37:47

who is god. The more you grow in

01:37:47 --> 01:37:49

your ability to care for others,

01:37:49 --> 01:37:52

the more you grow in your experience of,

01:37:52 --> 01:37:55

and understanding of, and ability to know the

01:37:55 --> 01:37:56

caring.

01:37:58 --> 01:37:59

You don't reach it through reason,

01:37:59 --> 01:38:01

you reach it through experience.

01:38:02 --> 01:38:04

Same way I understand you in this audience.

01:38:04 --> 01:38:06

I don't know you rationally.

01:38:06 --> 01:38:08

I know you because we share common

01:38:10 --> 01:38:13

experiences. God is the caring, infinite source of

01:38:13 --> 01:38:16

caring according to Quran, but we could grow

01:38:16 --> 01:38:18

in our ability to care for others. The

01:38:18 --> 01:38:19

more we grow in justice,

01:38:20 --> 01:38:22

the more we come to understand, experience, and

01:38:22 --> 01:38:24

to know the just. The more we grow

01:38:24 --> 01:38:27

in truth, the more we come to know,

01:38:27 --> 01:38:28

experience, and represent

01:38:28 --> 01:38:31

the truthful. And the Quran says we're here

01:38:31 --> 01:38:33

to represent God. The more we know

01:38:34 --> 01:38:36

of protectiveness of the weak and the downtrodden,

01:38:36 --> 01:38:38

the more we come to know the protector,

01:38:38 --> 01:38:39

the more we know of kindness, the more

01:38:39 --> 01:38:41

we come to know, experience and receive

01:38:42 --> 01:38:44

the beauty that only the kind could give

01:38:44 --> 01:38:48

us. Forgiveness, forgiving, merciful, merciful, compassionate, compassionate, and

01:38:48 --> 01:38:49

on and on.

01:38:50 --> 01:38:52

And I explained that to my daughters. They

01:38:52 --> 01:38:53

said,

01:38:53 --> 01:38:55

daddy, what are you trying to say?

01:38:56 --> 01:38:59

And I told them this. I said, pretend

01:38:59 --> 01:39:00

that we have a dog,

01:39:02 --> 01:39:03

some goldfish,

01:39:04 --> 01:39:04

and

01:39:05 --> 01:39:05

3 daughters.

01:39:06 --> 01:39:08

Pretend that. I do have 3 daughters.

01:39:09 --> 01:39:10

So at least they could relate to that.

01:39:11 --> 01:39:12

I told them, no matter how much of

01:39:12 --> 01:39:13

my love,

01:39:14 --> 01:39:15

no much how much of my compassion,

01:39:16 --> 01:39:18

no how much how much of my comparing,

01:39:18 --> 01:39:20

how much of my real self

01:39:21 --> 01:39:22

I shower on that goldfish,

01:39:23 --> 01:39:26

that goldfish could only experience my love, my

01:39:26 --> 01:39:28

compassion, my caring,

01:39:28 --> 01:39:29

my justice

01:39:29 --> 01:39:31

to a very limited degree

01:39:32 --> 01:39:34

because it's a very primitive creature.

01:39:35 --> 01:39:36

It only knows

01:39:37 --> 01:39:38

and could learn

01:39:38 --> 01:39:39

and could experience

01:39:40 --> 01:39:43

love, compassion, forgiveness, etcetera, to a very

01:39:43 --> 01:39:44

minuscule level.

01:39:45 --> 01:39:46

But my dog,

01:39:47 --> 01:39:48

Rex

01:39:49 --> 01:39:50

I don't have a dog, but I had

01:39:50 --> 01:39:53

one, Rex, once. But my dog, he could

01:39:53 --> 01:39:56

know and experience and feel

01:39:56 --> 01:40:00

my love, my compassion, my caring, myself, my

01:40:00 --> 01:40:00

being

01:40:01 --> 01:40:02

to a much higher level

01:40:03 --> 01:40:04

because he's a more developed creature.

01:40:05 --> 01:40:08

He knows through his own life experiences, he

01:40:08 --> 01:40:09

experiences through his own life experiences,

01:40:10 --> 01:40:12

a certain amount of love, compassion, forgiveness, not

01:40:12 --> 01:40:14

just as a receiver, but as a giver

01:40:14 --> 01:40:16

as well, which is more

01:40:16 --> 01:40:19

important. Because when you give love, you're experiencing

01:40:19 --> 01:40:22

loving on a whole another level than just

01:40:22 --> 01:40:23

receiving. You're learning it.

01:40:26 --> 01:40:27

But I told her, Look at you 3

01:40:27 --> 01:40:29

guys. Look at you 3 guys, I said

01:40:29 --> 01:40:31

to my daughters. As you grow, you will

01:40:31 --> 01:40:35

come to learn, know, and experience love, compassion,

01:40:35 --> 01:40:37

forgiveness on a much higher level.

01:40:37 --> 01:40:39

And a higher level, and it's up to

01:40:39 --> 01:40:41

you how high you want to go.

01:40:41 --> 01:40:44

But the more you grow in love, compassion,

01:40:44 --> 01:40:47

mercy, forgiveness, etcetera, the more you could experience

01:40:47 --> 01:40:51

whatever love, mercy, compassion, forgiveness, etcetera, that I

01:40:51 --> 01:40:52

have to give to you,

01:40:53 --> 01:40:55

the more you could experience me, the more

01:40:55 --> 01:40:57

you could experience my being.

01:40:59 --> 01:41:01

And that's essentially what the author seems to

01:41:01 --> 01:41:03

be telling us, that the more we grow

01:41:03 --> 01:41:06

in all these, the more we could experience

01:41:06 --> 01:41:07

the infinite love,

01:41:08 --> 01:41:09

compassion, forgiveness,

01:41:09 --> 01:41:10

caring,

01:41:10 --> 01:41:11

justice

01:41:12 --> 01:41:13

that is God.

01:41:19 --> 01:41:21

And so all the pieces were coming together

01:41:21 --> 01:41:22

for me.

01:41:23 --> 01:41:25

All I had to do was just read

01:41:25 --> 01:41:26

any page of the Quran.

01:41:26 --> 01:41:28

There were times and times to get there

01:41:28 --> 01:41:29

were signs.

01:41:29 --> 01:41:31

There were it was staring me right in

01:41:31 --> 01:41:31

the face,

01:41:32 --> 01:41:34

except that I read it and never opened

01:41:34 --> 01:41:35

my eyes to see it.

01:41:36 --> 01:41:38

And it took me reading the entire scripture

01:41:38 --> 01:41:40

before it was open to me.

01:41:41 --> 01:41:43

But wait a minute, I said.

01:41:43 --> 01:41:44

Okay.

01:41:44 --> 01:41:46

Granted. You know, the more we grow in

01:41:46 --> 01:41:48

love, the more we could experience

01:41:49 --> 01:41:52

god's loving. The more and and people do.

01:41:54 --> 01:41:56

The believers, they experience it in prayer.

01:41:57 --> 01:41:59

They experience it in ritual.

01:42:00 --> 01:42:02

They talk about those powerful moments

01:42:02 --> 01:42:04

when they experience god's presence.

01:42:07 --> 01:42:09

They do experience it. And the Quran promises

01:42:09 --> 01:42:11

that you will definitely experience it to some

01:42:11 --> 01:42:13

degree in this life, but in the next

01:42:13 --> 01:42:14

life when all distractions

01:42:15 --> 01:42:18

are swept away, and all you take to

01:42:18 --> 01:42:20

the next life is your growth in these,

01:42:20 --> 01:42:21

your real person,

01:42:24 --> 01:42:26

If you have grown in these, if you

01:42:26 --> 01:42:28

haven't become bankrupt in these, you'll be able

01:42:28 --> 01:42:30

to experience God, his beauty,

01:42:31 --> 01:42:31

his presence,

01:42:32 --> 01:42:35

His being to higher and higher degrees.

01:42:38 --> 01:42:40

But I thought, wait a minute, there's something

01:42:40 --> 01:42:41

wrong here.

01:42:42 --> 01:42:43

I almost got lured,

01:42:44 --> 01:42:46

seduced into accepting this picture.

01:42:47 --> 01:42:50

I almost got seduced into accepting this picture.

01:42:50 --> 01:42:52

But then I remembered my questions, and I

01:42:52 --> 01:42:53

remembered the angel's question.

01:42:54 --> 01:42:56

I mean, wait a minute, guys.

01:42:56 --> 01:42:59

Why didn't God just program these in us?

01:43:00 --> 01:43:02

Why didn't He just program us to be

01:43:02 --> 01:43:04

loving, compassionate, forgiveness, etcetera,

01:43:05 --> 01:43:07

instead of making us go through this

01:43:07 --> 01:43:09

turmoil, this torture on earth?

01:43:09 --> 01:43:10

Are you following me?

01:43:11 --> 01:43:13

Why didn't he just program us to be

01:43:13 --> 01:43:16

that way? Was the suffering all necessary? Was

01:43:16 --> 01:43:17

the pain of it all necessary?

01:43:18 --> 01:43:20

Did I gain anything from my childhood?

01:43:20 --> 01:43:21

I mean, what did I learn?

01:43:23 --> 01:43:24

Why did I have to suffer?

01:43:26 --> 01:43:28

Why do you have to suffer?

01:43:29 --> 01:43:31

Why did it give me choice?

01:43:32 --> 01:43:33

Why did it give me intellect?

01:43:36 --> 01:43:37

Just make me

01:43:38 --> 01:43:40

love. Just make me have compassion.

01:43:41 --> 01:43:41

Just

01:43:42 --> 01:43:42

like that.

01:43:45 --> 01:43:47

Well, if you read the Quran,

01:43:48 --> 01:43:50

don't even read the Quran. Just think about

01:43:50 --> 01:43:51

it yourself.

01:43:54 --> 01:43:56

In order to grow in love

01:43:57 --> 01:44:00

and as creatures, the Quran says, every creature

01:44:00 --> 01:44:00

grows.

01:44:00 --> 01:44:02

Creatures are growing entities.

01:44:02 --> 01:44:05

And the Quran says that God provides every

01:44:05 --> 01:44:07

creature with the environment, the soil if you

01:44:07 --> 01:44:10

will, the environment, the growing environment

01:44:10 --> 01:44:12

that is necessary for its growth.

01:44:13 --> 01:44:15

But if we are to grow in love,

01:44:15 --> 01:44:17

compassion, forgiveness, caring, etcetera,

01:44:18 --> 01:44:19

how does that

01:44:20 --> 01:44:22

contribute to that environment?

01:44:22 --> 01:44:24

Are these necessary ingredients

01:44:24 --> 01:44:26

for us to grow in these, and us

01:44:26 --> 01:44:29

to develop these, and us to learn these

01:44:29 --> 01:44:31

and acquire these?

01:44:32 --> 01:44:33

And I think if you think about it

01:44:33 --> 01:44:36

for a minute, the answer is obviously

01:44:37 --> 01:44:38

yes. I

01:44:38 --> 01:44:40

mean think about compassion, for example.

01:44:41 --> 01:44:43

How can you have compassion

01:44:44 --> 01:44:45

if there is no suffering,

01:44:46 --> 01:44:49

if there is not some vulnerable creature to

01:44:49 --> 01:44:50

turn to,

01:44:51 --> 01:44:53

if some creature is not dependent

01:44:53 --> 01:44:54

on you,

01:44:55 --> 01:44:56

how could you exercise,

01:44:56 --> 01:44:59

learn and grow in compassion? Unless you are

01:44:59 --> 01:45:01

the infinite source of it already, which none

01:45:01 --> 01:45:02

of us are since none of us are

01:45:02 --> 01:45:04

God. We are creatures. We become.

01:45:05 --> 01:45:06

How can we become compassionate

01:45:11 --> 01:45:12

that we could turn to.

01:45:14 --> 01:45:16

How what is compassion without choice?

01:45:17 --> 01:45:18

A compassionate

01:45:18 --> 01:45:20

act is an act where you choose to

01:45:20 --> 01:45:21

help someone,

01:45:22 --> 01:45:24

when you have the option not to.

01:45:25 --> 01:45:27

If I take a banana peel, eat it,

01:45:27 --> 01:45:29

take the peel, throw it over my shoulder,

01:45:29 --> 01:45:31

it lands in the street. A criminal comes

01:45:31 --> 01:45:33

by on his way to rob a pocketbook

01:45:33 --> 01:45:35

from an old lady standing over there and

01:45:35 --> 01:45:37

trips on a banana peel and falls on

01:45:37 --> 01:45:39

the ground. My throwing the banana peel over

01:45:39 --> 01:45:41

my shoulder was not a compassionate act.

01:45:43 --> 01:45:45

So I really didn't choose to do that.

01:45:46 --> 01:45:47

Passionate act requires

01:45:49 --> 01:45:49

choice.

01:45:50 --> 01:45:52

It also requires intellect

01:45:52 --> 01:45:54

because when you reach out to someone in

01:45:54 --> 01:45:56

compassion, you weigh in your minds how much

01:45:56 --> 01:45:58

of yourself you're gonna invest in reaching out

01:45:58 --> 01:45:59

to that person.

01:46:00 --> 01:46:01

And you say to yourself, do I really

01:46:01 --> 01:46:02

wanna do this?

01:46:03 --> 01:46:05

How much time is it gonna require? I

01:46:05 --> 01:46:06

gotta go to work.

01:46:06 --> 01:46:08

I might, you know, might not make any

01:46:08 --> 01:46:09

money today.

01:46:09 --> 01:46:10

Besides,

01:46:10 --> 01:46:12

you know, I'll have to be helping this

01:46:12 --> 01:46:13

person for the next couple hours. Have to

01:46:13 --> 01:46:15

take him to the hospital, seem that, you

01:46:15 --> 01:46:17

know, your mind is weighing how much of

01:46:17 --> 01:46:19

yourself is gonna be invested in that.

01:46:20 --> 01:46:23

You could program a computer to never make

01:46:23 --> 01:46:26

an incorrect statement, but it doesn't become a

01:46:26 --> 01:46:27

truthful computer.

01:46:28 --> 01:46:30

I never heard anybody say to me, Jeff,

01:46:30 --> 01:46:31

you know that computer of yours? It's the

01:46:31 --> 01:46:34

most truthful computer I've ever seen.

01:46:37 --> 01:46:39

Because truth is not just making incorrect state

01:46:39 --> 01:46:41

correct statements. Truth

01:46:41 --> 01:46:43

is being truthful

01:46:43 --> 01:46:44

is a choice.

01:46:45 --> 01:46:46

It's understanding

01:46:47 --> 01:46:49

the decision you're making. It requires intellect.

01:46:50 --> 01:46:51

And if that truth

01:46:53 --> 01:46:55

involves you in the possibility of suffering,

01:46:56 --> 01:46:58

the more that is in stake

01:46:58 --> 01:47:01

in telling the truth, the greater you rise

01:47:01 --> 01:47:03

to that truth, the greater that is an

01:47:03 --> 01:47:04

active truth.

01:47:06 --> 01:47:07

Oh, sorry.

01:47:08 --> 01:47:10

Because I was going like this. Alright.

01:47:11 --> 01:47:13

What else do I have written here? Forgiveness

01:47:14 --> 01:47:16

is a choice. What is forgiveness without choice?

01:47:16 --> 01:47:17

What is forgiveness

01:47:21 --> 01:47:22

is

01:47:25 --> 01:47:26

forgiveness

01:47:26 --> 01:47:26

without

01:47:27 --> 01:47:28

what the person is saying when they ask

01:47:28 --> 01:47:29

you for forgiveness.

01:47:30 --> 01:47:34

All these things, suffering, choice and intellect, are

01:47:34 --> 01:47:36

integral to our growth in these.

01:47:36 --> 01:47:38

Are you following me?

01:47:39 --> 01:47:41

One last example, the famous wedding

01:47:41 --> 01:47:44

bomb. You promised to stick with somebody in

01:47:44 --> 01:47:45

sickness and in health.

01:47:46 --> 01:47:47

What's the other one?

01:47:48 --> 01:47:50

I said it so long ago, I can't

01:47:50 --> 01:47:50

remember.

01:47:51 --> 01:47:53

In sickness and health, for richer or for

01:47:53 --> 01:47:56

poorer, until death do we part.

01:48:00 --> 01:48:00

It acknowledges

01:48:01 --> 01:48:04

the essential nay the essential element of suffering

01:48:04 --> 01:48:06

and growing in love, in love.

01:48:07 --> 01:48:08

And it's a choice.

01:48:08 --> 01:48:10

We make that vow. That vow is a

01:48:10 --> 01:48:13

choice. Do you, Jeff Lang, promise

01:48:14 --> 01:48:15

to take raga

01:48:16 --> 01:48:17

so sort

01:48:18 --> 01:48:20

for richer or for poorer, in sickness and

01:48:20 --> 01:48:21

*, I start thinking about, wait a minute

01:48:21 --> 01:48:23

now. No, I didn't.

01:48:24 --> 01:48:25

You

01:48:27 --> 01:48:28

know, I was

01:48:28 --> 01:48:31

very pleased to do that. But it was

01:48:31 --> 01:48:31

a choice.

01:48:33 --> 01:48:35

And it's giving you the choice. Understand this,

01:48:35 --> 01:48:37

when you make that vow,

01:48:37 --> 01:48:40

it's in sickness and health, richer or poorer,

01:48:40 --> 01:48:41

till death

01:48:42 --> 01:48:43

who do you part?

01:48:43 --> 01:48:46

It's saying, think about it. Understand what kind

01:48:46 --> 01:48:47

of choice you're making.

01:48:48 --> 01:48:50

Now these three things are

01:48:50 --> 01:48:51

integral

01:48:51 --> 01:48:52

in our growth

01:48:53 --> 01:48:53

in these.

01:48:54 --> 01:48:55

Suffering, choice,

01:48:56 --> 01:48:56

intellect

01:48:57 --> 01:48:58

are absolutely necessary

01:48:59 --> 01:49:00

to grow in these. You pull anyone out

01:49:00 --> 01:49:02

of this equation called life,

01:49:03 --> 01:49:05

and we don't have it as we know

01:49:05 --> 01:49:06

it. We cannot grow in these as we

01:49:06 --> 01:49:08

know it, at very high levels.

01:49:10 --> 01:49:12

Finally, in the last 2 minutes, I'll just

01:49:12 --> 01:49:13

simply say this.

01:49:13 --> 01:49:16

So when the Quran talks about sin,

01:49:17 --> 01:49:20

it talks about people who grow bankrupt

01:49:21 --> 01:49:22

in these more or less.

01:49:23 --> 01:49:25

Quran, a famous symbol in the Quran is

01:49:25 --> 01:49:27

the balance on the day of judgment that

01:49:27 --> 01:49:28

weighs your goodness.

01:49:29 --> 01:49:31

And people are heavy in goodness.

01:49:32 --> 01:49:35

People are full of goodness. They can experience

01:49:36 --> 01:49:39

paradise in the next life, and perhaps

01:49:40 --> 01:49:43

to greater and greater degrees God's presence. Because

01:49:43 --> 01:49:45

the more we know of goodness, the more

01:49:45 --> 01:49:46

we grow in goodness,

01:49:47 --> 01:49:50

the more we are able to experience, receive

01:49:50 --> 01:49:50

and know

01:49:51 --> 01:49:53

the infinite goodness of God.

01:49:54 --> 01:49:55

But what if we go the opposite direction?

01:49:56 --> 01:49:58

What if instead of developing the qualities of

01:49:58 --> 01:50:00

love, compassion, forgiveness, caring, we do just the

01:50:00 --> 01:50:02

opposite. We head in the opposite direction.

01:50:03 --> 01:50:05

And we become instead of being heavy in

01:50:05 --> 01:50:07

these qualities on the day of judgment, we

01:50:07 --> 01:50:09

become extremely light in these qualities when we

01:50:09 --> 01:50:10

enter in the next

01:50:12 --> 01:50:15

life. So instead of becoming love loving, we

01:50:15 --> 01:50:17

become hateful, compassionate,

01:50:17 --> 01:50:18

miserly,

01:50:18 --> 01:50:19

forgiving,

01:50:19 --> 01:50:19

Vengeful.

01:50:20 --> 01:50:20

Caring?

01:50:21 --> 01:50:22

Whatever.

01:50:22 --> 01:50:22

Mean.

01:50:23 --> 01:50:25

Justice? This justice?

01:50:27 --> 01:50:29

Cruel. I don't know. Truth,

01:50:30 --> 01:50:30

liar.

01:50:31 --> 01:50:31

Protective,

01:50:32 --> 01:50:34

destructive, and so forth. What if we go

01:50:34 --> 01:50:36

in the opposite direction and become primarily

01:50:45 --> 01:50:47

Because if you're bankrupt of those,

01:50:48 --> 01:50:49

then this

01:50:49 --> 01:50:51

growth in this will be the only thing

01:50:51 --> 01:50:51

that

01:50:52 --> 01:50:53

matters as you go into the next life.

01:50:53 --> 01:50:55

You bring nothing else with you but what

01:50:55 --> 01:50:57

you really are.

01:50:58 --> 01:50:59

And if you are not

01:50:59 --> 01:51:01

have not developed this,

01:51:02 --> 01:51:04

then you're gonna suffer severely because you cannot

01:51:04 --> 01:51:05

experience any

01:51:06 --> 01:51:08

of the beauty that awaits you in the

01:51:08 --> 01:51:10

next life. You'll experience just the opposite.

01:51:13 --> 01:51:15

So Quran compares growth in this life, our

01:51:15 --> 01:51:17

physical growth in the womb, to our

01:51:18 --> 01:51:20

spiritual growth in this life.

01:51:21 --> 01:51:23

And if you think about it, when a

01:51:23 --> 01:51:25

creature grows in its in the mother's womb,

01:51:25 --> 01:51:28

a primarily physical growth. When it comes into

01:51:28 --> 01:51:30

this life, when it is born, you see

01:51:30 --> 01:51:32

the effects of that growth concretely

01:51:33 --> 01:51:34

right before you.

01:51:35 --> 01:51:37

When a child enters this world, the growth

01:51:37 --> 01:51:40

it went through in a womb, its physical

01:51:40 --> 01:51:43

growth is manifested before you in that creature's

01:51:43 --> 01:51:43

being.

01:51:45 --> 01:51:48

What the Quran seems to be suggests

01:51:48 --> 01:51:50

is that when we are the type of

01:51:50 --> 01:51:53

spiritual growth we obtain in this life, when

01:51:53 --> 01:51:55

we go into the next life, it too

01:51:55 --> 01:51:58

will be manifested in exactly what we are.

01:51:59 --> 01:52:02

And so to go in this next life

01:52:02 --> 01:52:03

bankrupt of these

01:52:03 --> 01:52:05

is like coming into this life

01:52:06 --> 01:52:06

bankrupt,

01:52:07 --> 01:52:07

bereft

01:52:08 --> 01:52:11

of every physical quality you need to experience

01:52:12 --> 01:52:13

some peace,

01:52:13 --> 01:52:15

some joy, some comfort

01:52:15 --> 01:52:16

in this life.

01:52:18 --> 01:52:19

So if you are bereft

01:52:20 --> 01:52:22

of these, it would be like coming into

01:52:22 --> 01:52:24

this life without any skin to protect you

01:52:24 --> 01:52:26

from the cold or the heat,

01:52:27 --> 01:52:29

with your nerves exposed and all you know

01:52:29 --> 01:52:30

is pain,

01:52:30 --> 01:52:33

the inability to breathe, and you're gasping for

01:52:33 --> 01:52:33

air.

01:52:34 --> 01:52:35

I'm not trying to scare any of you.

01:52:35 --> 01:52:36

I'm just

01:52:37 --> 01:52:38

presenting an analogy.

01:52:39 --> 01:52:41

Choking for your breath,

01:52:42 --> 01:52:45

blind. You cannot see. Legrand says the spiritually

01:52:45 --> 01:52:47

blind in this life will come out blind

01:52:47 --> 01:52:49

in the next life to reality.

01:52:51 --> 01:52:54

So to not grow in these, to grow

01:52:54 --> 01:52:56

in the opposite, to become basically

01:52:56 --> 01:52:56

evil

01:52:58 --> 01:52:59

is according to the Quran,

01:53:00 --> 01:53:01

self destruction.

01:53:02 --> 01:53:04

And so when the Quran speaks of sin,

01:53:04 --> 01:53:06

it frequently says, you don't

01:53:07 --> 01:53:09

sin primarily against God.

01:53:10 --> 01:53:13

You don't even primarily sin against your victims.

01:53:14 --> 01:53:15

The Quran says,

01:53:15 --> 01:53:18

the sinner primarily commits sin

01:53:18 --> 01:53:19

against themselves.

01:53:20 --> 01:53:22

They destroy themselves,

01:53:22 --> 01:53:23

the Quran says.

01:53:24 --> 01:53:26

And it says God gives you every at

01:53:26 --> 01:53:28

least when he exposes you to the Quran,

01:53:29 --> 01:53:30

gives you every

01:53:30 --> 01:53:31

possible

01:53:31 --> 01:53:32

warning about that.

01:53:33 --> 01:53:35

And then it says, and still, they turn

01:53:35 --> 01:53:36

their backs.

01:53:38 --> 01:53:40

Let's see. What else do I wanna say?

01:53:40 --> 01:53:41

I guess I said enough. It's quarter to

01:53:41 --> 01:53:43

10, you're almost exhausted.

01:53:44 --> 01:53:46

And plus, I'm sure you wanna see

01:53:46 --> 01:53:47

KU

01:53:47 --> 01:53:49

hopefully win their basketball game,

01:53:50 --> 01:53:51

University of Kansas.

01:53:51 --> 01:53:54

So I'll sort of end it there. And,

01:53:55 --> 01:53:57

like I said, I'm trying to summarize a

01:53:57 --> 01:53:59

100 pages in just 2 hours. But I

01:53:59 --> 01:54:01

appreciate you coming and listening for all of

01:54:01 --> 01:54:02

2 hours.

01:54:03 --> 01:54:05

And, I wish you all the best. And,

01:54:06 --> 01:54:06

I

01:54:07 --> 01:54:10

thank you so much, you kind Purdue people.

01:54:21 --> 01:54:23

Anyone would like to just,

01:54:24 --> 01:54:27

raise a hand. And then tomorrow, I'll

01:54:28 --> 01:54:28

give a

01:54:39 --> 01:54:41

It's only a 20 minute speech tomorrow. If

01:54:41 --> 01:54:43

I have some questions, please raise your hand.

01:55:05 --> 01:55:07

Theological things which is kind of a too

01:55:34 --> 01:55:36

Can I can I answer that just in

01:55:36 --> 01:55:37

general about

01:55:37 --> 01:55:38

ritual?

01:55:38 --> 01:55:39

The more

01:55:40 --> 01:55:40

I prayed,

01:55:41 --> 01:55:42

the more

01:55:43 --> 01:55:44

powerful

01:55:44 --> 01:55:45

those prayers became

01:55:46 --> 01:55:47

spiritually.

01:55:48 --> 01:55:49

You know, the more

01:55:49 --> 01:55:51

I the idea is that the more you

01:55:51 --> 01:55:53

develop these qualities in yourself,

01:55:55 --> 01:55:55

the more

01:55:56 --> 01:55:57

you will experience

01:55:58 --> 01:55:59

God's being

01:55:59 --> 01:56:01

in this life and the next.

01:56:01 --> 01:56:03

And the primary way the believer

01:56:04 --> 01:56:06

and one of the primary ways the believer

01:56:06 --> 01:56:07

experiences

01:56:08 --> 01:56:11

god's presence or god's being is through ritual.

01:56:14 --> 01:56:17

So that when a person grows in these,

01:56:17 --> 01:56:20

they suddenly find that they're in their prayers,

01:56:21 --> 01:56:22

they have they

01:56:23 --> 01:56:25

become more and more powerful spiritually.

01:56:26 --> 01:56:27

Are you following me?

01:56:27 --> 01:56:29

So that they feel God's presence.

01:56:30 --> 01:56:31

They feel a warmth,

01:56:32 --> 01:56:34

a power, a mercy

01:56:34 --> 01:56:35

coming over them.

01:56:36 --> 01:56:38

So it's seen and same with the other

01:56:38 --> 01:56:39

rituals.

01:56:39 --> 01:56:40

The more

01:56:40 --> 01:56:42

they grow in this, following this

01:56:43 --> 01:56:43

program,

01:56:45 --> 01:56:47

the more they grow in this, the more

01:56:47 --> 01:56:48

powerful and more beautiful

01:56:49 --> 01:56:52

the rituals become. The idea in the Quran

01:56:52 --> 01:56:54

is is that God's

01:56:54 --> 01:56:57

gifts I'm just thinking out loud here.

01:56:58 --> 01:57:00

That God's gifts to humanity are tremendous,

01:57:01 --> 01:57:02

are tremendous

01:57:03 --> 01:57:04

beyond count, it says.

01:57:05 --> 01:57:07

But if you think about it, in every

01:57:08 --> 01:57:11

relationship, both people engaged in this relationship

01:57:12 --> 01:57:14

have to have something to give to that

01:57:14 --> 01:57:15

relationship,

01:57:15 --> 01:57:18

or it's not a relationship, not a a

01:57:18 --> 01:57:19

healthy relationship.

01:57:19 --> 01:57:21

In a healthy relationship,

01:57:21 --> 01:57:24

both people involved in relationship must have something

01:57:24 --> 01:57:25

to give.

01:57:26 --> 01:57:28

Ritual gives the believers

01:57:29 --> 01:57:31

a way to give back to God,

01:57:33 --> 01:57:35

to share with God with what in reality

01:57:36 --> 01:57:37

is already his.

01:57:39 --> 01:57:39

For example,

01:57:40 --> 01:57:41

I'll give you an analogy.

01:57:42 --> 01:57:44

2 days ago, my daughters came to me,

01:57:44 --> 01:57:45

Sarah and Fatima.

01:57:45 --> 01:57:48

They said, daddy, can we have $10 a

01:57:48 --> 01:57:49

piece. I said, why?

01:57:50 --> 01:57:51

Because we want to buy you a present.

01:57:55 --> 01:57:57

I gave them each of course, I gave

01:57:57 --> 01:57:58

them the $10.

01:57:58 --> 01:58:00

Yeah. And they went to the store and

01:58:00 --> 01:58:01

bought me a present.

01:58:02 --> 01:58:04

Now I didn't need their gift.

01:58:04 --> 01:58:05

I didn't need it.

01:58:06 --> 01:58:08

It's mine already, the $10.

01:58:08 --> 01:58:10

It did nothing for me materially. It did

01:58:10 --> 01:58:12

nothing for me concretely.

01:58:12 --> 01:58:13

But I loved

01:58:14 --> 01:58:15

the love behind it,

01:58:15 --> 01:58:17

and I know that it brings

01:58:17 --> 01:58:19

me and them closer together.

01:58:21 --> 01:58:23

In the same way, there's nothing that we

01:58:23 --> 01:58:25

could give back to God that is not,

01:58:25 --> 01:58:27

or give to God, that is not in

01:58:27 --> 01:58:28

reality His.

01:58:30 --> 01:58:31

But what the rituals allow

01:58:32 --> 01:58:35

the believer to do is to give to

01:58:35 --> 01:58:35

God

01:58:36 --> 01:58:38

what really is in reality his.

01:58:39 --> 01:58:42

And as the Quran shows, God does not

01:58:42 --> 01:58:42

need

01:58:43 --> 01:58:44

what we give.

01:58:45 --> 01:58:48

But it also shows he loves

01:58:48 --> 01:58:51

the intention behind it, and he knows it

01:58:51 --> 01:58:52

brings us closer together.

01:58:54 --> 01:58:56

And so when the Muslim

01:58:56 --> 01:58:57

or the believer

01:58:58 --> 01:58:59

grows in these

01:59:00 --> 01:59:03

and devotes himself in ritual to God, gives

01:59:03 --> 01:59:04

to God,

01:59:04 --> 01:59:06

in reality seems

01:59:06 --> 01:59:09

point worthless to God. I mean, he's God.

01:59:10 --> 01:59:10

Nonetheless,

01:59:11 --> 01:59:13

you know, he is being brought closer to

01:59:13 --> 01:59:15

God through that giving,

01:59:15 --> 01:59:17

and he feels God's love

01:59:17 --> 01:59:18

in that ritual,

01:59:19 --> 01:59:21

and he experiences it, and he feels himself

01:59:21 --> 01:59:23

giving that love back to God.

01:59:24 --> 01:59:26

So it becomes a very powerful experience that

01:59:26 --> 01:59:27

grows in intensity

01:59:27 --> 01:59:29

as a person grows in these.

01:59:30 --> 01:59:31

You know? And so you'll find people who

01:59:31 --> 01:59:33

are very devout, very good,

01:59:34 --> 01:59:36

who engage in ritual,

01:59:37 --> 01:59:40

engage in ritual, they report having really intense

01:59:40 --> 01:59:41

beautiful experiences,

01:59:41 --> 01:59:42

not all the time,

01:59:43 --> 01:59:45

and usually unanticipated.

01:59:46 --> 01:59:48

They don't plan them, but they experience them

01:59:48 --> 01:59:49

nonetheless.

01:59:49 --> 01:59:51

And then and also it helps

01:59:51 --> 01:59:53

discipline and refine your spirituality,

01:59:53 --> 01:59:55

But that's a whole another issue. But I

01:59:55 --> 01:59:57

I chose to answer it from that perspective.

01:59:58 --> 01:59:59

Is that okay?

01:59:59 --> 02:00:02

Thanks for the question. Great question. Yes.

02:00:22 --> 02:00:24

Yes. Is there a connection or a correlation

02:00:24 --> 02:00:27

between being an atheist in the earlier stage

02:00:27 --> 02:00:28

of life

02:00:54 --> 02:00:56

Yeah. Yeah. Somebody asked me to reiterate your

02:00:56 --> 02:00:58

question for the camera. I'm trying to remember.

02:00:58 --> 02:01:00

Let's see. So you said I was an

02:01:00 --> 02:01:02

atheist, yes. Sort of

02:01:06 --> 02:01:07

connection, you think,

02:01:07 --> 02:01:08

between

02:01:08 --> 02:01:09

the

02:01:10 --> 02:01:13

interval of atheism that I went through for

02:01:13 --> 02:01:14

12 years,

02:01:14 --> 02:01:17

and has that played a integral part

02:01:18 --> 02:01:18

in,

02:01:19 --> 02:01:20

in making me a believer,

02:01:21 --> 02:01:21

actually?

02:01:22 --> 02:01:24

It seems like you're saying. And in what

02:01:24 --> 02:01:27

I've whatever I've contributed, and I think it's

02:01:27 --> 02:01:27

minor

02:01:28 --> 02:01:28

to this

02:01:29 --> 02:01:29

to,

02:01:30 --> 02:01:30

the

02:01:31 --> 02:01:33

the religious dialogue in this community. Am I

02:01:33 --> 02:01:33

right?

02:01:40 --> 02:01:41

Yes.

02:01:44 --> 02:01:44

Yes.

02:01:47 --> 02:01:48

Yeah. I think you're right.

02:01:48 --> 02:01:50

I think that,

02:01:50 --> 02:01:54

you know, I think there's all types of

02:01:54 --> 02:01:54

believers.

02:01:55 --> 02:01:56

But I think that,

02:01:58 --> 02:02:00

I think the experience of atheism

02:02:02 --> 02:02:02

and,

02:02:03 --> 02:02:03

and

02:02:04 --> 02:02:05

questioning,

02:02:06 --> 02:02:08

you know, the religion you're taught, and the

02:02:08 --> 02:02:10

ideas that you're surrounded with, etcetera,

02:02:10 --> 02:02:12

that experience of doubt,

02:02:13 --> 02:02:14

doubt even if it turns to atheism,

02:02:15 --> 02:02:17

could turn out to be a very positive

02:02:17 --> 02:02:20

thing if through that doubt you discover

02:02:22 --> 02:02:23

belief and discover

02:02:23 --> 02:02:24

God.

02:02:25 --> 02:02:26

Are you following me?

02:02:27 --> 02:02:28

So you know,

02:02:28 --> 02:02:31

one famous Muslim religious thinker, Al Ghazali, used

02:02:31 --> 02:02:34

to say that you don't you can't achieve

02:02:34 --> 02:02:36

a very high level of belief unless you

02:02:36 --> 02:02:37

allow yourself to doubt first.

02:02:38 --> 02:02:39

Unless you've doubted 1st.

02:02:39 --> 02:02:41

I don't know if that's not necessarily true

02:02:41 --> 02:02:42

or not. I don't think my mom ever

02:02:42 --> 02:02:44

doubted, but it but it,

02:02:45 --> 02:02:45

definitely

02:02:47 --> 02:02:49

she attained a very high level of belief

02:02:49 --> 02:02:49

in God.

02:02:50 --> 02:02:50

But,

02:02:51 --> 02:02:52

I think that, you know,

02:02:54 --> 02:02:55

the atheist perspective,

02:02:55 --> 02:02:56

you know, can

02:02:57 --> 02:03:00

take can provide a very important perspective

02:03:01 --> 02:03:03

in the, in the religious dialogue.

02:03:03 --> 02:03:05

You know what I mean? Because most people

02:03:05 --> 02:03:07

really do have doubts about

02:03:07 --> 02:03:10

faith. But, you know, the have doubts, but

02:03:10 --> 02:03:12

they sort of suppress them or or whatnot.

02:03:12 --> 02:03:14

But after a while, sometimes it eats at

02:03:14 --> 02:03:16

them. So I think when an atheist becomes

02:03:16 --> 02:03:18

a religion who has faced a lot of

02:03:18 --> 02:03:20

doubts, has gone to the extreme,

02:03:21 --> 02:03:23

to the point where he let he's taken

02:03:23 --> 02:03:25

his doubts to the point where he rejects

02:03:26 --> 02:03:28

the existence of God. If that person can

02:03:28 --> 02:03:29

make their way back,

02:03:30 --> 02:03:32

that journey has to be a valuable

02:03:33 --> 02:03:35

experience to share with others. It got to

02:03:35 --> 02:03:37

be helpful for other people to hear it.

02:03:37 --> 02:03:39

I think it must be, or I wouldn't

02:03:39 --> 02:03:40

be up here today,

02:03:40 --> 02:03:42

you know, wasting all of your time.

02:03:42 --> 02:03:44

You know, I think most people come to

02:03:44 --> 02:03:47

listen to these because they have doubts themselves,

02:03:48 --> 02:03:50

and they and they want to know how

02:03:50 --> 02:03:53

could somebody who has rationally been led to

02:03:53 --> 02:03:54

the denial of God

02:03:54 --> 02:03:55

come back

02:03:56 --> 02:03:58

to the rational acceptance

02:03:58 --> 02:04:00

of the existence of god. I know I

02:04:00 --> 02:04:01

didn't do a good job at handling your

02:04:01 --> 02:04:02

question, but

02:04:03 --> 02:04:04

Okay.

02:04:05 --> 02:04:07

Any other questions?

02:04:08 --> 02:04:09

Yes, sir.

02:04:20 --> 02:04:21

Yes.

02:04:27 --> 02:04:29

Are you talking about predestination?

02:04:32 --> 02:04:32

Are you talking about predestination? Are you talking

02:04:32 --> 02:04:34

about predestination or destiny?

02:04:35 --> 02:04:38

See, there's a difference because the Quran doesn't

02:04:38 --> 02:04:39

say that god predestines

02:04:40 --> 02:04:40

anything.

02:04:41 --> 02:04:43

Now the Quran says that God's knowledge is

02:04:43 --> 02:04:44

all encompassing.

02:04:45 --> 02:04:48

But since God, according to the Quran, transcends

02:04:49 --> 02:04:49

his creation,

02:04:50 --> 02:04:53

it'd be foolish to talk about him predestining.

02:04:53 --> 02:04:54

Are you following me?

02:04:55 --> 02:04:57

See, when I say use the word predestined,

02:04:58 --> 02:04:59

I'm talking about

02:04:59 --> 02:05:00

destining

02:05:00 --> 02:05:02

the future. I'm talking about I'm in the

02:05:02 --> 02:05:05

future looking I'm in the present looking forward

02:05:05 --> 02:05:08

to the future, and I am determining the

02:05:08 --> 02:05:10

future. Are you following me? So when you

02:05:10 --> 02:05:11

use the word predestined,

02:05:12 --> 02:05:14

you know, you the minute you apply the

02:05:14 --> 02:05:17

word predestined to God, you are

02:05:18 --> 02:05:19

you are

02:05:20 --> 02:05:23

putting God in this space time environment, or

02:05:23 --> 02:05:24

at least time environment,

02:05:25 --> 02:05:26

one of our dimensions.

02:05:26 --> 02:05:28

Are you following me? But the Quran says

02:05:28 --> 02:05:32

that God transcends time and transcends space.

02:05:32 --> 02:05:33

He would never

02:05:34 --> 02:05:36

even the most rabid atheists wouldn't say,

02:05:37 --> 02:05:38

Jeff, if God was on a bus

02:05:39 --> 02:05:41

from Indianapolis to Chicago,

02:05:41 --> 02:05:43

and he would never start a question that

02:05:43 --> 02:05:45

way because he knows I would not accept

02:05:45 --> 02:05:47

the idea that God could be confined

02:05:48 --> 02:05:49

to a particular place.

02:05:50 --> 02:05:52

In the same way, peace and that no

02:05:52 --> 02:05:56

one should say, if god is now in

02:05:56 --> 02:05:59

the present looking forward to the future and

02:05:59 --> 02:06:00

determining things in advance,

02:06:01 --> 02:06:04

you immediately started with an with a premise

02:06:04 --> 02:06:06

that the Quran does not accept.

02:06:06 --> 02:06:07

Are you with me?

02:06:09 --> 02:06:11

So the wrong word is predestined.

02:06:12 --> 02:06:16

The Quran says that nothing happens unless God

02:06:16 --> 02:06:17

allows it to

02:06:18 --> 02:06:21

happen, unless God permits it to happen.

02:06:21 --> 02:06:22

But the same Quran

02:06:23 --> 02:06:25

shows that he permits us to make choices.

02:06:25 --> 02:06:28

He us, empowers us to make choices, and

02:06:28 --> 02:06:30

to carry them out to their expected conclusions.

02:06:31 --> 02:06:33

God has complete control

02:06:34 --> 02:06:36

over the whole human experience. He could stop

02:06:36 --> 02:06:38

it in an instant, but he doesn't.

02:06:39 --> 02:06:41

It even says in one verse in the

02:06:41 --> 02:06:42

Quran, if I wanted you to go out

02:06:42 --> 02:06:44

to that field and die in that field,

02:06:44 --> 02:06:46

I could have made you do that,

02:06:46 --> 02:06:48

and you would have gone right to the

02:06:48 --> 02:06:49

do the place I wanted you to die,

02:06:49 --> 02:06:51

and you would have fallen dead right there.

02:06:52 --> 02:06:53

But he doesn't.

02:06:54 --> 02:06:56

These people he addresses in that verse, he

02:06:56 --> 02:06:58

gave them a choice, and they chose to

02:06:58 --> 02:06:58

do otherwise.

02:06:59 --> 02:07:01

So the point I'm trying to make is

02:07:01 --> 02:07:04

when a Muslim says that God measures, that's

02:07:04 --> 02:07:05

the word in the Quran,

02:07:06 --> 02:07:06

Qadrach,

02:07:06 --> 02:07:07

measures

02:07:07 --> 02:07:08

all things.

02:07:09 --> 02:07:10

You know, that means that he has total

02:07:10 --> 02:07:11

control

02:07:11 --> 02:07:13

over this creation,

02:07:13 --> 02:07:16

that nothing occurs without him allowing it. But

02:07:16 --> 02:07:18

it doesn't say that he predestines it

02:07:20 --> 02:07:22

because the very word predestined

02:07:22 --> 02:07:26

contradicts the Quran's concept of God's transcendence of

02:07:26 --> 02:07:28

time and space. And it clearly indicates it,

02:07:28 --> 02:07:30

because it says in the Quran that even

02:07:30 --> 02:07:31

though various events

02:07:31 --> 02:07:33

in history that we see

02:07:33 --> 02:07:36

as taking place over a long period of

02:07:36 --> 02:07:38

time, for God, it is a single instant.

02:07:39 --> 02:07:41

He just says, be, and it is.

02:07:42 --> 02:07:44

But to us, it seems like it's taking

02:07:44 --> 02:07:44

place,

02:07:45 --> 02:07:48

you know, throughout this 1000 sometimes 1000 of

02:07:48 --> 02:07:50

years. But for God, it's all 1, A

02:07:50 --> 02:07:53

single blink of an instant. A single infinite

02:07:53 --> 02:07:55

eternal moment outside of time.

02:07:57 --> 02:07:58

I think I've talked enough about it. I

02:07:58 --> 02:08:00

don't wanna bore you. Yes. But what I

02:08:00 --> 02:08:01

mean is god?

02:08:02 --> 02:08:04

God knows what we're gonna do to tell

02:08:05 --> 02:08:08

them. Yeah. Yeah. But that's unimportant because you're

02:08:08 --> 02:08:11

talking about knowing outside of time.

02:08:11 --> 02:08:13

See, the Quran presents life as more like

02:08:13 --> 02:08:15

it uses a symbol, like a book. We're

02:08:15 --> 02:08:17

living this book right now.

02:08:17 --> 02:08:18

Right?

02:08:19 --> 02:08:21

So we are living this book right now.

02:08:21 --> 02:08:23

And we are turning the pages as we

02:08:23 --> 02:08:24

live it.

02:08:24 --> 02:08:27

God reads the whole book all at once.

02:08:27 --> 02:08:28

He's outside of time.

02:08:29 --> 02:08:29

Okay?

02:08:30 --> 02:08:32

He reads the whole book at once. He

02:08:32 --> 02:08:35

sees all the pages one single moment, you

02:08:35 --> 02:08:37

know, but we live them throughout time because

02:08:37 --> 02:08:39

we're stuck in time.

02:08:39 --> 02:08:40

Tomorrow,

02:08:40 --> 02:08:42

I cannot jump to tomorrow,

02:08:43 --> 02:08:45

nor can I go back suddenly 50 years?

02:08:45 --> 02:08:46

I am

02:08:46 --> 02:08:49

lodged in time. I am fixed in time.

02:08:49 --> 02:08:51

Tomorrow, an hour from now, I will be

02:08:51 --> 02:08:54

at an hour from now. 2 hours from

02:08:54 --> 02:08:56

now, I will be at an hour from

02:08:56 --> 02:08:58

now. Because I am limited by space and

02:08:58 --> 02:08:59

by time.

02:09:00 --> 02:09:01

But just as god

02:09:02 --> 02:09:04

could see all space at once,

02:09:05 --> 02:09:06

Here's space.

02:09:07 --> 02:09:09

I'm sure this diagram helps.

02:09:10 --> 02:09:11

There's space.

02:09:12 --> 02:09:14

God transcends space.

02:09:14 --> 02:09:17

He sees it all at once.

02:09:18 --> 02:09:20

I am on my way to Chicago. I

02:09:20 --> 02:09:22

don't know that there is a cow in

02:09:22 --> 02:09:23

the road.

02:09:23 --> 02:09:25

I am driving this way. If I keep

02:09:25 --> 02:09:27

on driving, I will eventually run into that

02:09:27 --> 02:09:30

cow. God sees it all at once.

02:09:31 --> 02:09:35

All space is encompassed by his vision. As

02:09:35 --> 02:09:37

the Koran says, all is encompassed by his

02:09:37 --> 02:09:37

vision.

02:09:38 --> 02:09:40

But we are, you know, a little bit

02:09:40 --> 02:09:43

mobile with respect to space. So we could

02:09:43 --> 02:09:45

sort of understand that concept.

02:09:45 --> 02:09:46

Here is time.

02:09:50 --> 02:09:51

God transcends

02:09:51 --> 02:09:52

time.

02:09:53 --> 02:09:55

He sees it all at once.

02:09:58 --> 02:09:59

I mean, I know it's hard for us

02:09:59 --> 02:10:01

to conceive because we're stuck in time,

02:10:02 --> 02:10:04

much more limited in time as we are

02:10:04 --> 02:10:05

with respect to space.

02:10:06 --> 02:10:09

And we make decisions in time and etcetera.

02:10:10 --> 02:10:13

And god's wiz god's knowledge encompasses all of

02:10:13 --> 02:10:15

it, as hard as that is for us

02:10:15 --> 02:10:15

to believe.

02:10:16 --> 02:10:18

But that doesn't contradict that the fact that

02:10:18 --> 02:10:19

he lets us make choices,

02:10:20 --> 02:10:21

answers our prayers,

02:10:21 --> 02:10:23

guides us, etcetera, etcetera.

02:10:25 --> 02:10:28

So there you are. Yes, sure. He sees

02:10:28 --> 02:10:30

the day of judgement. He knows it all.

02:10:30 --> 02:10:32

He knows exactly the beginning and the end.

02:10:32 --> 02:10:35

But he doesn't make he doesn't make us

02:10:35 --> 02:10:38

make choices. He doesn't predestine our our destiny.

02:10:39 --> 02:10:40

It doesn't

02:10:40 --> 02:10:42

even say that in the Quran.

02:10:43 --> 02:10:44

Anybody else?

02:10:44 --> 02:10:46

Yes, sir. I had a quick question about

02:10:46 --> 02:10:49

that. When you were talking about how,

02:10:49 --> 02:10:52

in the beginning, the angel asked God,

02:10:52 --> 02:10:54

you know, you're going to put this

02:10:54 --> 02:10:56

creature on earth that sheds blood and Spreads

02:10:56 --> 02:10:58

corruption. Okay. My question was, how did they

02:10:58 --> 02:10:59

have anything I mean, that was the first

02:10:59 --> 02:11:00

man. How did they have any reference? Oh,

02:11:06 --> 02:11:07

his question was,

02:11:08 --> 02:11:10

when the angels when God said, I'm about

02:11:10 --> 02:11:12

to put a vice strength on earth, a

02:11:12 --> 02:11:14

representative on earth, the angels said, will you

02:11:14 --> 02:11:16

spread put therein 1 who will spread corruption

02:11:16 --> 02:11:19

and shed much blood? Will we celebrate your

02:11:19 --> 02:11:21

praises and glorify your holiness? He said, how

02:11:21 --> 02:11:23

did god, how did the angels know

02:11:24 --> 02:11:26

that man what a kind of creature man

02:11:26 --> 02:11:27

was going to be?

02:11:28 --> 02:11:30

Different Muslim scholars tried to approach that question

02:11:30 --> 02:11:31

and stumbled through it.

02:11:32 --> 02:11:34

And they took it as part of the

02:11:34 --> 02:11:35

problem, I think, is because they took an

02:11:35 --> 02:11:37

allegory as history.

02:11:38 --> 02:11:38

Are you following

02:11:39 --> 02:11:42

me? If it's an allegory, the question is

02:11:42 --> 02:11:44

there Yeah. It's an allegory to teach us

02:11:44 --> 02:11:46

to teach us not to tell us the

02:11:46 --> 02:11:48

origins of homo sapiens,

02:11:49 --> 02:11:51

but to teach us about human nature and

02:11:51 --> 02:11:53

the meaning of our life.

02:11:53 --> 02:11:55

So I, in my approach,

02:11:56 --> 02:11:57

you know, I know how other people have

02:11:57 --> 02:11:59

stumbled through that, but I'm not gonna I'm

02:11:59 --> 02:12:02

not gonna advocate their view because I'm quite

02:12:02 --> 02:12:04

I feel quite strongly that that's an allegory

02:12:04 --> 02:12:05

for many

02:12:05 --> 02:12:07

reasons. For example, in one verse in the

02:12:07 --> 02:12:09

Quran says, we created you in your mother's

02:12:09 --> 02:12:10

womb.

02:12:10 --> 02:12:13

We shaped you in your mother's womb. So

02:12:13 --> 02:12:14

we gave we

02:12:14 --> 02:12:16

made you in your mother's womb. We created

02:12:16 --> 02:12:18

you. It goes through the stage of creation,

02:12:18 --> 02:12:20

of a creature in its mother's womb.

02:12:20 --> 02:12:21

We

02:12:21 --> 02:12:22

we

02:12:23 --> 02:12:24

we conceived you,

02:12:25 --> 02:12:26

we gave you safe lodging,

02:12:27 --> 02:12:29

we shaped you in your mother's womb, And

02:12:29 --> 02:12:31

then we said to the angels, bow down

02:12:31 --> 02:12:31

to Adam.

02:12:32 --> 02:12:33

Are you following me?

02:12:34 --> 02:12:37

Here it's addressing humanity in the plural.

02:12:37 --> 02:12:40

We created you, shaped you in your mother's

02:12:40 --> 02:12:42

womb, humanity in the plural. And then we

02:12:42 --> 02:12:43

said, bow down to Adam.

02:12:44 --> 02:12:46

You know, and then we told the angels

02:12:46 --> 02:12:47

bow down to Adam.

02:12:47 --> 02:12:49

If we take that literally, that means the

02:12:49 --> 02:12:51

whole human race or not all of us,

02:12:51 --> 02:12:52

but a huge amount of the human race

02:12:52 --> 02:12:53

existed,

02:12:53 --> 02:12:56

right, you and I, and then the angels

02:12:56 --> 02:12:58

are commanded to bow down to Adam.

02:12:58 --> 02:13:01

I think that's an indication that these verses

02:13:01 --> 02:13:02

are not are not telling you

02:13:04 --> 02:13:06

to be taken literally as history,

02:13:07 --> 02:13:09

especially in reference to Adam. Adam,

02:13:10 --> 02:13:11

it's an allegory to teach us about,

02:13:12 --> 02:13:14

God and his relationship to man. That's the

02:13:14 --> 02:13:16

way I approach it. If people wanna approach

02:13:17 --> 02:13:18

it as history, I have no problem with

02:13:18 --> 02:13:21

that. Just allow me the right to allow

02:13:21 --> 02:13:22

God the right

02:13:22 --> 02:13:23

to what?

02:13:24 --> 02:13:27

To allow god the right to reveal truths

02:13:27 --> 02:13:29

that as he will without having to force

02:13:29 --> 02:13:31

historical interpretations

02:13:31 --> 02:13:33

and verses that may be allegorical.

02:13:33 --> 02:13:36

Because the Quran does say that God uses

02:13:36 --> 02:13:36

allegory.

02:13:37 --> 02:13:39

It says there are verses that are plain,

02:13:41 --> 02:13:41

clear,

02:13:42 --> 02:13:43

and they are the fundamental part of that

02:13:43 --> 02:13:46

book, the Quran. And there are verses that

02:13:46 --> 02:13:47

are allegorical.

02:13:47 --> 02:13:49

You know, what is the Arabic word? Mutashabi

02:13:50 --> 02:13:51

or something like that?

02:13:53 --> 02:13:54

Yeah. Mutashabi.

02:13:55 --> 02:13:56

Allegorical,

02:13:56 --> 02:13:58

symbolic, likenesses.

02:13:58 --> 02:14:00

You know, the Quran says there are both.

02:14:00 --> 02:14:02

And it says people who have diseases in

02:14:02 --> 02:14:03

their hearts,

02:14:04 --> 02:14:06

like sickness in their mind, they go after

02:14:06 --> 02:14:07

the part that's allegorical,

02:14:08 --> 02:14:10

seeking to find seeking to impose a final

02:14:10 --> 02:14:13

meaning on, you know, a concrete meaning. Well,

02:14:13 --> 02:14:14

the believers say, it's

02:14:21 --> 02:14:22

allegory.

02:14:22 --> 02:14:25

I am open to the possibility

02:14:25 --> 02:14:27

that it's an allegory. Because the Quran says

02:14:27 --> 02:14:29

it uses it, and I'm not gonna try

02:14:29 --> 02:14:30

to impose some final

02:14:31 --> 02:14:33

concrete interpretation on it. Are you following me?

02:14:33 --> 02:14:35

I'm open to the meanings that it raises,

02:14:35 --> 02:14:37

but I'm not going to be overly,

02:14:38 --> 02:14:39

sort of, literalistic

02:14:40 --> 02:14:42

in approaching verses that talk about something, you

02:14:42 --> 02:14:44

know, that's very deep, the nature of the

02:14:44 --> 02:14:47

human relationship with God that is outside

02:14:47 --> 02:14:48

the normal course

02:14:49 --> 02:14:51

of human interaction. You know what I mean?

02:14:51 --> 02:14:54

So, you know, some people don't like it,

02:14:54 --> 02:14:57

but I'm a mathematician, a scientist. I I

02:14:57 --> 02:14:58

gotta approach it that way. I think

02:15:00 --> 02:15:02

we're gonna go to the top for tonight.

02:15:02 --> 02:15:03

Oh.

02:15:04 --> 02:15:06

I'm sorry I couldn't answer more of your

02:15:06 --> 02:15:07

questions, but, you know, I took too long

02:15:07 --> 02:15:08

tonight. I'm sorry about that.

02:15:09 --> 02:15:10

Tomorrow? There's a

02:15:14 --> 02:15:17

night, Saturday night, same time, same place, 7:30

02:15:17 --> 02:15:18

PM.

02:15:18 --> 02:15:20

There will be more time for question and

02:15:20 --> 02:15:20

answer.

02:15:22 --> 02:15:23

We have a couple

02:15:24 --> 02:15:25

sheets up here.

02:15:26 --> 02:15:27

Anybody

02:15:27 --> 02:15:31

interested in eventually maybe in obtaining a video

02:15:31 --> 02:15:33

cassette of this lecture or you wanted it

02:15:34 --> 02:15:34

and you,

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