Ingrid Mattson – Let’s Get Real The Body as the Locus of Ethical Action

Ingrid Mattson
AI: Summary ©
The speakers discuss the importance of transphobic and against- idealistic behavior in achieving society. They emphasize the need for a more realistic approach to the topic, including the body's weight and its potential for suffering. The conversation also touches on the challenges of modern society, including the lack of access to clean water, the use of deadly chemicals, and the need for a strong personal connection to one's identity. They emphasize the importance of narrations and preaching a moral vision, identifying and acknowledging the physical and social impacts of people with a thing they have to offer, and returning to a sense of personal and community.
AI: Transcript ©
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I'm very concerned

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for how

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people in my community feel these days. What

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I

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see, and what I see as a lot

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of trauma,

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disappointment,

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disconnection,

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and trying to understand

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how

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how

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Muslims can once again

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center themselves

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and to understand,

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what they're supposed to do in this very

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complicated

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world in which we live.

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I see confusion about so many things about

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political

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ethics and decisions.

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In the medical field, I've been working on

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bioethics

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in the area of gender

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and rights,

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in the area of the environment,

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and people who are marginalized and displaced

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all over.

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And one of the things that I noticed

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as I I've been contemplating these areas and

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thinking about them,

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again and again is the importance

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and the place of the body.

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And so, I'm trying to look tonight really

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at the body as the place

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that we need to spend some time

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focusing on and understanding

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the importance of being embodied

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people

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and what that means in Islam.

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I think of this

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one of the reasons why I've thought about

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this is,

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also

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my confusion about so many actions where I

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see so called idealistic

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people

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who engage in horrendous

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actions,

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people who have high ideals

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engaging in real harm against real people.

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And this is

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the reason why I say let's get real

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because I think we need to,

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argue for a recommitment

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to the

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primacy of the embodied person.

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To be against idealism

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in the philosophical sense, not in the common

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sense,

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or common usage sense of the term of

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trying to achieve something better or believing that

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society can be better than it has been.

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We need to have we need to be

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idealistic in the sense of wanting something better

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for ourselves and for others.

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A community

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and an individual should have principles and values

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as well as a vision

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of what it would like to achieve.

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To be against idealism is also not to

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be against normativity.

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It is instead

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to be against a utopian vision,

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an ideal society in the sense,

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of,

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of

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looking at things and issues and people

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as

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a kind of platonic

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essentialized

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thing

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rather than actual,

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subjects in and of themselves.

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Selves. I noticed that it is the most

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idealistic people in the sense who become the

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most bitterly disappointed

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in human institutions

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because people are not ideas.

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They are bodies in space and time.

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It's these people who also can become the

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most disappointed in themselves

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and

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lead to,

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lead to a situation where they are,

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dissociate

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from their own selves and their own visceral

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selves, their bodies leading to,

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destruction of themselves.

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We've seen in the last few days in

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the news this conference

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on

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violent what's it called? Countering violent extremism.

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And I see a lot of talk about

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ideas.

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It is not my sense from talking with

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some people who have been in engaged

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in this

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caught up by or whose friends have been

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caught up by

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these actions that it is necessarily

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just about ideas.

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Why is it that converts and those who

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are newly religious,

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Muslims who are newly religious, you know, the

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criminals,

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the gangsters,

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the,

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thugs, or all the all the derogatory words

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that have been used with respect

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to people who had tough lives and and

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engaged in some kind

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of compensatory

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behavior,

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criminal behavior,

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why is it that they're so vulnerable,

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to this kind of these kind of movements

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and I believe it has a great deal

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to do with the hatred

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of,

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the memory

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that is carried within their body bodies of

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what they have done and what has been

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done to them?

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Why does someone

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want to go

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to a place where there's a very strong

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risk

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of

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their body being destroyed?

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And I heard a story,

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about a young man from my students, a

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young man who, in fact, did this, who

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left Canada and went

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to fight and was killed.

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And what I was told is that he

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was one of the guys, one of the

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teenagers, Muslim teenagers used to go out and

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used to party

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until

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a bunch of them decided, you know what?

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We've probably done enough of this. We should

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probably get a little bit religious, and they

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all got a little bit religious. Not you

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know, they still were not perfect, but they

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said let's stop some of the things. Let's

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stop drinking alcohol

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and

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let's stop partying with women.

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And he couldn't.

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My student said this guy couldn't and he

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felt so disgusted by himself

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that he,

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felt the only way

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that he could stop

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from

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being condemned to hellfire for his sins

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was to go and put himself in that

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place.

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So I want us really to think about

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what that

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what this means,

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to be an embodied person

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and what it compels us to do

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and how that relates to our ethics.

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Now, some may ask don't Muslims already focus

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too much on the body,

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you know, with their concerns about sexuality and

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hijab and beards and these kind of things.

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I think there is a selective focus and

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attention.

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It's not that I see any of that

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as superficial or unnecessary

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and it is one of the strengths of

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the Islamic legal tradition

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that importance is given to certain desires,

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but it is selective,

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and certainly there is a privileging of certain

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bodies.

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I mean, if we look and I don't

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have to with Keisha Ady in the audience

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who's an expert in this, I should bring

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her up to talk about

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what I would call the jurisprudential

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gymnastics

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that are done to accommodate the sexual taste

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preferences and desires of privileged

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heterosexual

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men in in our tradition and continues until

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today. We all know about the fatwas

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that give permission for so called vacation marriages,

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men marrying with the intention to divorce,

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even though temporary marriage isn't allowed, but he

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wants citizenship or to have a sexual outlet,

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taking,

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a second wife in secret, not telling his

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first wife.

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So if we look at all of the

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accommodations made

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for the sake of a realistic view

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of the needs,

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of a certain kind of body and contrast

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that with the refusal

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to find any way to accommodate

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or ease the real suffering

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suffering of many other categories of people,

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single women,

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migrant workers who cannot

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have any of their family with them,

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homosexual,

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Muslims.

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We see that there is a a great

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selectivity. And this isn't just about men, but

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we could also look at elite women

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who are assured that they have no obligation

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to perform the tiring and boring

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housework, cooking, or even taking care of children,

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but then the question is who does the

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work?

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Non elite women whose bodies are exposed and

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overworked and separated from the embraces of their

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children and their husbands.

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So a pragmatic or realistic

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approach is taken in considering the needs and

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bodies of the privilege, but not of

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so many others.

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So we have to

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be very honest about the narratives

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we tell of ourselves. We talk about how

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the media frames news, how the misdeeds of

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some people

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receive a great deal of attention, while others

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are ignored,

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how some narratives are used to, elicit sympathy

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towards certain human lives and certain human needs

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and not others, the whole is homophobic discourse.

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But we have,

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also,

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selective narratives and dehumanization

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that can occur within our communities and we

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need to be aware of that

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and begin to,

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take

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a more,

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well, we'll talk about how we get those

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other narratives in and it isn't by asking

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other people to remember us.

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That's for sure, I could preempt that.

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But, let's look back,

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before we enter into that, really look at

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this issue of the body and why it

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is so important and why it's not some

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kind of,

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just,

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we're talking about it because it's some kind

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of feminist trope or or,

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some new

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aspect that we're introducing into Islamic thought. Not

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that there would be anything wrong with that

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whatsoever.

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But this is,

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at the heart of what it means to

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be a person in Islam.

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We can begin with this parable that the

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Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, told to

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his companions.

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He said, There was a man who had

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never done a pious deed in his life,

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so he said to his children, When I

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die,

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burn me to ashes and divide the ashes

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into 2 parts.

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Scatter one part on the land and the

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other in the ocean.

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By God, if my Lord gets a hold

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of this body, he will punish it like

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never before.

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When the man died, his children obeyed his

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instructions, but God commanded the land to gather

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his ashes.

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So the land collected every particle of his

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ashes from itself.

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Then God commanded the ocean and it too

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gathered all the particles even from its depths.

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Then, God asked him, why did you do

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that? And he said,

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my Lord out of fear of you.

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So God

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forgave him. Now, Muslim preachers and theologians derive

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a number of lessons from this parable. The

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most important of which is that the mercy

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of god is without limit.

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God is unconstrained

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by the human conception of justice and judgment,

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including a person's self assessment of being utterly

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worthless.

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Some theologians would suggest that the man was

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forgiven for his evil actions

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because although he was

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a a a consistent sinner,

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he did not disbelieve in God. Indeed,

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he took extensive action

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to disappear precisely because he recognized God's authority

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to judge and punish him.

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The man's failure to act morally was less

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important

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than his acknowledgement of God

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and God's divinely established moral order.

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I think actually, Doctor. Jackson has a beautiful

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short article.

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What's it called?

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About about the, about the man who's punished

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for for for alcohol, drinking alcohol.

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I forgot. You forgot the article.

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Beautiful.

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And I I think there's a there's a

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similar message here.

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So as we

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consider,

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you know, this issue,

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for our purposes, I would like to draw

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attention here beyond mercy, beyond love of God,

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to

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the centrality of the body in this parable.

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The man sees his body as the locus

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of God's judgment,

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which he wishes to escape.

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Hence, his desperate strategy to make his body

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disappear after

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death. God, of course, is fully capable of

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reconstituting any part of his creation no matter

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how dissipated it is.

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But it's only upon the reconstruction

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and reanimation of the body that the man

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comes back into existence.

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The person is there when the body is

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there, capable of engaging in an audience with

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god.

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The person is present when the body is

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present.

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The Quran describes in vivid terms the bodily

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and emotional pleasures of heaven and the torments

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of *.

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Now, whether it's possible for a person to

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conceive of himself or herself as existing

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as a disembodied spirit, the Quran leaves no

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doubt that the person who experiences the afterlife

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is the same man or woman one identifies

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as self today.

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Judgment, however, must proceed the ultimate reward or

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punishment, and at this juncture, the Quran describes

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people having a kind of dissociative experience,

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can to the person's action.

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God says, on that day, we shall set

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a seal on their mouths and make their

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hands

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speak to us, and their feet will bear

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witness to what they have done.

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In light of such passages,

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perhaps, we could see the man in the

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parable who wanted his body burned and ashes

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scattered.

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To have been hoping, not only to avoid

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the bodily punishments of the afterlife,

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he also wanted to destroy the evidence.

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Here, we might see another moral of the

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story after the first lesson, which is that

00:14:19 --> 00:14:20

God will ultimately be,

00:14:21 --> 00:14:23

that a person will ultimately be judged by

00:14:23 --> 00:14:26

an external subject that is God, and it

00:14:26 --> 00:14:27

is God's judgment

00:14:27 --> 00:14:29

that is supreme not the person's.

00:14:30 --> 00:14:32

And the second lesson that after his judgment,

00:14:32 --> 00:14:34

God's mercy will prevail.

00:14:35 --> 00:14:36

But what it is further implied in the

00:14:36 --> 00:14:38

story is the message that there is no

00:14:38 --> 00:14:41

escape from the body until that time.

00:14:42 --> 00:14:44

In life and until the final judgment, there

00:14:44 --> 00:14:47

is no flight from a body that constantly

00:14:47 --> 00:14:49

reminds a person of what it has done

00:14:49 --> 00:14:51

and what has been done to it.

00:14:51 --> 00:14:53

The body is the reality from which can

00:14:54 --> 00:14:55

one cannot dissociate,

00:14:56 --> 00:14:57

at least not for long.

00:14:59 --> 00:15:00

The major scholars of Islam

00:15:01 --> 00:15:03

have all have agreed that belief in the

00:15:03 --> 00:15:05

resurrection of the dead is a necessary part

00:15:05 --> 00:15:05

of faith.

00:15:07 --> 00:15:07

For example,

00:15:08 --> 00:15:11

the 12th century theologian, Al Ghazali argued,

00:15:12 --> 00:15:14

along with others, that philosophers such such as

00:15:14 --> 00:15:17

al Farabi and Ibn Sina, who adopted a

00:15:17 --> 00:15:19

platonic mind body dualism

00:15:20 --> 00:15:22

and argued that only the soul survived after

00:15:22 --> 00:15:25

death should be considered unbelievers.

00:15:26 --> 00:15:29

Now, while they argued against this, at the

00:15:29 --> 00:15:31

same time, the majority of dogmatic scholars asserted

00:15:32 --> 00:15:34

that the nafs is a soul that can

00:15:34 --> 00:15:35

separate from the body.

00:15:37 --> 00:15:39

Now here I can't get into a long,

00:15:40 --> 00:15:41

very complicated

00:15:41 --> 00:15:43

history of discussions

00:15:43 --> 00:15:45

about the difference or is there a difference

00:15:45 --> 00:15:47

between the soul and the spirit, the

00:15:49 --> 00:15:51

and what they are. But let's say, in

00:15:51 --> 00:15:52

a book like,

00:15:52 --> 00:15:53

Ibn Qayyim's

00:15:54 --> 00:15:55

Kitab Arruh,

00:15:55 --> 00:15:56

he

00:15:57 --> 00:15:58

mostly conflates,

00:15:59 --> 00:16:00

the two terms.

00:16:01 --> 00:16:03

As for the Quran, the Quran does not

00:16:04 --> 00:16:06

define naf so much as refer to it

00:16:06 --> 00:16:08

and thus remains ambiguous and open to a

00:16:08 --> 00:16:09

range of interpretations.

00:16:10 --> 00:16:12

And when it comes to the state of

00:16:12 --> 00:16:12

the person

00:16:13 --> 00:16:13

after

00:16:14 --> 00:16:16

death, but before the resurrection,

00:16:17 --> 00:16:20

the Quran displays a noticeable lack of interest.

00:16:24 --> 00:16:25

Re embodiment of the person

00:16:26 --> 00:16:28

since it is this which makes the divine

00:16:28 --> 00:16:30

judgment of persons possible.

00:16:31 --> 00:16:34

Islamic discourse outside of the Quran in contrast

00:16:34 --> 00:16:37

is rich with discussions of the state of

00:16:37 --> 00:16:38

the pre resurrected dead.

00:16:39 --> 00:16:42

The literature reflects a deep level of concern

00:16:42 --> 00:16:44

about this liminal state.

00:16:45 --> 00:16:48

A concern that's widely displayed across Islamic cultures

00:16:48 --> 00:16:51

through the attention paid to burial rituals as

00:16:51 --> 00:16:52

well as the contentious debate

00:16:54 --> 00:16:56

over visitation practices and the intercession of the

00:16:56 --> 00:16:57

saintly dead.

00:16:58 --> 00:17:01

And if you want to really see, how

00:17:02 --> 00:17:04

different forms of knowledge,

00:17:06 --> 00:17:06

are introduced

00:17:07 --> 00:17:10

into Islamic discourse in a very interesting way,

00:17:10 --> 00:17:13

I would suggest reading an an edited, there's

00:17:13 --> 00:17:14

it's not easy, there are no

00:17:15 --> 00:17:16

good translations of Kitab Barukh by Ibn Khayyim.

00:17:16 --> 00:17:17

But even in the faulty ones, you see

00:17:17 --> 00:17:19

that he he suddenly allows for a wide,

00:17:21 --> 00:17:24

you see that he he suddenly allows for

00:17:24 --> 00:17:25

a wide

00:17:25 --> 00:17:26

range of,

00:17:28 --> 00:17:31

of sources of knowledge he would otherwise dismiss.

00:17:31 --> 00:17:33

So, for example, the fact that people see

00:17:34 --> 00:17:35

spirits after death.

00:17:37 --> 00:17:38

He says there's no evidence

00:17:48 --> 00:17:48

Quran

00:17:48 --> 00:17:51

So this kind of this kind of liberal,

00:17:51 --> 00:17:53

letting in, in order,

00:17:54 --> 00:17:55

in order to

00:17:56 --> 00:17:57

tell a good

00:17:57 --> 00:17:58

tell a good

00:17:58 --> 00:18:01

story or to bring a good moral to

00:18:01 --> 00:18:02

people,

00:18:03 --> 00:18:04

is quite clear.

00:18:05 --> 00:18:07

So there's no doubt that,

00:18:07 --> 00:18:08

a certain dualism

00:18:09 --> 00:18:10

of body and soul dominates

00:18:11 --> 00:18:12

most Islamic discourses.

00:18:13 --> 00:18:15

This is not a dualism, however,

00:18:16 --> 00:18:17

that degrades the body.

00:18:19 --> 00:18:20

It is,

00:18:20 --> 00:18:21

even

00:18:22 --> 00:18:23

even in,

00:18:23 --> 00:18:25

Sufi discourses, that's the case.

00:18:26 --> 00:18:30

Valer Hoffmann says, as for the Quran itself,

00:18:30 --> 00:18:32

it does not speak of a body spirit

00:18:32 --> 00:18:34

or body soul dichotomy as the problem behind

00:18:34 --> 00:18:36

the evils of human existence.

00:18:36 --> 00:18:38

The cause of human abasement is not in

00:18:38 --> 00:18:40

Quran language, the flesh,

00:18:40 --> 00:18:43

but pride and self greed and deception of

00:18:43 --> 00:18:46

Satan who whispers his temptations to receptive humans.

00:18:47 --> 00:18:48

So aesthetic practices

00:18:49 --> 00:18:50

are generally limited,

00:18:52 --> 00:18:55

to enhance spiritual awareness, not to punish an

00:18:55 --> 00:18:57

evil body and here there's a a clear

00:18:57 --> 00:18:58

difference between

00:18:59 --> 00:19:00

classical Christian thought

00:19:01 --> 00:19:04

and classical Islamic thought, where Christian thought sees

00:19:04 --> 00:19:04

the body

00:19:05 --> 00:19:05

as

00:19:06 --> 00:19:07

as,

00:19:07 --> 00:19:11

part of matter and in a in a

00:19:11 --> 00:19:11

dualistic,

00:19:11 --> 00:19:14

platonic view sees the body as inferior,

00:19:15 --> 00:19:16

to the soul and as corrupt.

00:19:19 --> 00:19:20

In Sufism

00:19:20 --> 00:19:21

where,

00:19:21 --> 00:19:23

in some forms of Sufism where it is

00:19:23 --> 00:19:26

encouraged to inflict some discomfort on the body

00:19:26 --> 00:19:27

and it's justified.

00:19:28 --> 00:19:30

It's not because the body is evil but

00:19:30 --> 00:19:32

because this is a way to discipline the

00:19:32 --> 00:19:34

inner self which directs the body.

00:19:36 --> 00:19:37

So in this sense,

00:19:37 --> 00:19:38

ego mortification

00:19:39 --> 00:19:41

rather than flesh mortification is the goal.

00:19:42 --> 00:19:45

But for the external observer, the impression that

00:19:45 --> 00:19:47

is given is of punishment to the body.

00:19:48 --> 00:19:51

Extreme forms of bodily denial to tame an

00:19:51 --> 00:19:53

evil nafs or an evil self or soul

00:19:53 --> 00:19:54

or ego

00:19:54 --> 00:19:55

ego

00:19:55 --> 00:19:59

have, not gone unchallenged in Muslim society. The

00:19:59 --> 00:20:02

majority of Muslims, including most Sufis, have rejected

00:20:02 --> 00:20:04

extreme practices as contrary to the example of

00:20:04 --> 00:20:06

the prophet and his companions.

00:20:08 --> 00:20:11

For the majority, means moderation and simplicity

00:20:11 --> 00:20:12

of lifestyle.

00:20:13 --> 00:20:14

But here, we we,

00:20:15 --> 00:20:16

turn to ethical

00:20:16 --> 00:20:20

reasoning. What does moderation and simplicity mean? These

00:20:20 --> 00:20:22

are relative terms

00:20:22 --> 00:20:23

and

00:20:23 --> 00:20:27

the the places where we see a concept

00:20:27 --> 00:20:28

like moderation invoked,

00:20:29 --> 00:20:30

need to

00:20:31 --> 00:20:33

have some attention paid to them.

00:20:34 --> 00:20:36

If we look at

00:20:36 --> 00:20:39

we at this conference, we had a lot

00:20:39 --> 00:20:41

of talk and we'll have more tomorrow about

00:20:41 --> 00:20:43

Halal food and the expansion of

00:20:44 --> 00:20:44

of

00:20:45 --> 00:20:46

halal,

00:20:46 --> 00:20:49

to Taib, the Taib food market, or the

00:20:50 --> 00:20:52

Islamic food market that includes not only,

00:20:53 --> 00:20:56

how the animal is slaughtered, but how the

00:20:56 --> 00:20:58

animal is raised and treated from the time,

00:20:59 --> 00:21:01

how it's how it's treated its whole life.

00:21:01 --> 00:21:02

And it could also

00:21:02 --> 00:21:05

include, what is done to the earth or

00:21:05 --> 00:21:07

the environment on which the animal is raised,

00:21:08 --> 00:21:10

the workers who are involved in the process.

00:21:10 --> 00:21:12

So this is a this is a holistic

00:21:13 --> 00:21:13

approach.

00:21:14 --> 00:21:16

We would we could call this supply chain

00:21:16 --> 00:21:17

ethics,

00:21:17 --> 00:21:19

and it's something that you could easily learn

00:21:19 --> 00:21:21

about by going to your local Whole Foods

00:21:21 --> 00:21:23

and looking at the numbering system for the

00:21:23 --> 00:21:26

different levels of of meat, you know. Number

00:21:26 --> 00:21:27

1 to up to

00:21:28 --> 00:21:30

5 or at least that was my local

00:21:30 --> 00:21:31

Whole Foods.

00:21:31 --> 00:21:33

You know, the best is number 5 where

00:21:33 --> 00:21:35

all of these factors are taken into account.

00:21:36 --> 00:21:39

Now, it might seem that this, supply chain

00:21:39 --> 00:21:41

ethics is a new hipster phenomenon,

00:21:42 --> 00:21:44

but actually it's part of Islamic

00:21:45 --> 00:21:45

theological,

00:21:45 --> 00:21:47

ethical discourse from the beginning.

00:21:49 --> 00:21:51

The concept of blocking the means in Islamic

00:21:52 --> 00:21:52

ethics,

00:21:53 --> 00:21:55

If we look at Ahmed ibn Hanbal's Kitav

00:21:55 --> 00:21:56

al Wara

00:21:56 --> 00:21:58

where he says that,

00:21:58 --> 00:22:00

you know, things like,

00:22:01 --> 00:22:02

even if you're if you're in a mosque

00:22:03 --> 00:22:05

and you notice that someone is burning incense

00:22:05 --> 00:22:07

that you know was donated

00:22:08 --> 00:22:09

by a prince

00:22:10 --> 00:22:12

or some authority who got the money from

00:22:12 --> 00:22:13

stolen property

00:22:14 --> 00:22:16

that you should hold your breath and run

00:22:16 --> 00:22:19

out of the mosque so you don't breathe

00:22:19 --> 00:22:19

in

00:22:21 --> 00:22:21

this,

00:22:21 --> 00:22:25

this smoke, this incense that originated through a

00:22:25 --> 00:22:27

kind of supply chain back to

00:22:28 --> 00:22:29

unlawful wealth.

00:22:30 --> 00:22:31

So he was I mean, if you if

00:22:31 --> 00:22:33

you wanna go back to supply chain ethics,

00:22:33 --> 00:22:36

Kitab al Wara is, is all about that.

00:22:37 --> 00:22:40

Imam Abu Hanifa as well when he was

00:22:40 --> 00:22:41

asked why did you not write a book

00:22:41 --> 00:22:44

of Warah of righteous Warah is righteousness?

00:22:45 --> 00:22:47

He responded, I wrote a book of commerce

00:22:47 --> 00:22:49

instead. So this is a different aspect of

00:22:49 --> 00:22:52

being very realistic about things

00:22:52 --> 00:22:55

and about, the supply chain or the lawfulness

00:22:56 --> 00:22:58

not only of what you have but where

00:22:58 --> 00:23:01

it came from. So following that chain of

00:23:01 --> 00:23:03

transmission back to something to something good.

00:23:07 --> 00:23:10

Of course, not everyone's interest and concerns are

00:23:10 --> 00:23:12

given the same attention in these books.

00:23:13 --> 00:23:15

There are certain things that are prioritized and

00:23:15 --> 00:23:17

others that are not. But here, you could

00:23:17 --> 00:23:18

say,

00:23:18 --> 00:23:21

here is a discourse that really is rooted

00:23:21 --> 00:23:23

in the body, in what you consume,

00:23:23 --> 00:23:25

in what you breathe,

00:23:25 --> 00:23:26

in what in what,

00:23:27 --> 00:23:30

you bring into your home. So there is

00:23:30 --> 00:23:32

a a a very strong tradition here.

00:23:33 --> 00:23:35

But I want to make, another point,

00:23:36 --> 00:23:38

a kind of side point before I go

00:23:38 --> 00:23:40

on with this is that

00:23:40 --> 00:23:42

just my my advice,

00:23:43 --> 00:23:45

as we go forward in this Islamic ethical

00:23:45 --> 00:23:47

discourse and

00:23:47 --> 00:23:50

develop it, is that when we talk about

00:23:50 --> 00:23:52

things like supply chain ethics, we really need

00:23:52 --> 00:23:52

to distinguish

00:23:53 --> 00:23:56

priorities from tactic or principles from tactics and

00:23:56 --> 00:23:56

priorities.

00:23:58 --> 00:24:00

As someone who is a teenager boycotted

00:24:00 --> 00:24:03

grapes from Chile, apples from South Africa, and

00:24:03 --> 00:24:05

chocolate from Nestle, those of you who,

00:24:06 --> 00:24:08

you know, grew up at the same time

00:24:08 --> 00:24:10

as me know why all those companies were

00:24:10 --> 00:24:10

boycotted,

00:24:12 --> 00:24:13

because of the exploitation

00:24:13 --> 00:24:17

of the workers and apartheid in South Africa.

00:24:18 --> 00:24:20

I know what it means to be a

00:24:20 --> 00:24:20

very

00:24:22 --> 00:24:22

enthusiastic

00:24:23 --> 00:24:24

activist

00:24:24 --> 00:24:27

in this area and how annoying that can

00:24:27 --> 00:24:28

be to to your parents.

00:24:29 --> 00:24:32

And also how that can divide people who

00:24:32 --> 00:24:33

who live together.

00:24:35 --> 00:24:37

I think we have to be very careful

00:24:37 --> 00:24:40

about litmus test that are set by activists,

00:24:41 --> 00:24:42

and those with an ethical outlook.

00:24:43 --> 00:24:45

And the litmus test is it's not only

00:24:45 --> 00:24:48

a litmus test that this cause is the

00:24:48 --> 00:24:50

is the cause that defines

00:24:51 --> 00:24:51

righteousness

00:24:52 --> 00:24:53

or purity

00:24:53 --> 00:24:54

or sincerity,

00:24:55 --> 00:24:55

lack of hypocrisy,

00:24:57 --> 00:24:59

but also as if their cause is the

00:24:59 --> 00:25:00

only one that should be prioritized.

00:25:01 --> 00:25:04

So we have to distinguish the principles which

00:25:04 --> 00:25:06

are justice and equality from tactics

00:25:07 --> 00:25:08

like boycotts

00:25:08 --> 00:25:09

and from perspectives,

00:25:10 --> 00:25:12

I e, that this cause

00:25:12 --> 00:25:14

must be the priority, and if you abandon

00:25:14 --> 00:25:16

this cause or you don't care about this,

00:25:16 --> 00:25:18

then it must it means that you really

00:25:18 --> 00:25:21

don't care. You really don't have faith. It

00:25:21 --> 00:25:22

is a form of hypocrisy.

00:25:24 --> 00:25:27

So, with ethical reasoning, we need to try

00:25:27 --> 00:25:29

to take into account as many relevant concerns

00:25:29 --> 00:25:32

as possible in time to make a decision.

00:25:32 --> 00:25:35

We have to make decisions. But what are

00:25:35 --> 00:25:36

some of those concerns?

00:25:37 --> 00:25:40

Those concerns also include things like maintaining relationships.

00:25:42 --> 00:25:44

You know, doctor Jackson talked about,

00:25:45 --> 00:25:48

that Islam can't be reduced to the law.

00:25:49 --> 00:25:52

And certainly, ethics isn't all of Islam. Ethics

00:25:52 --> 00:25:55

is a form of law or a form

00:25:55 --> 00:25:57

of legal reasoning, but it is not all

00:25:57 --> 00:25:58

of Islam.

00:25:58 --> 00:26:00

So, we look at when the Quran says

00:26:00 --> 00:26:01

something

00:26:04 --> 00:26:07

like, Someone is the reward for kindness or

00:26:07 --> 00:26:10

a kindness or good goodness towards you, anything

00:26:10 --> 00:26:12

else than goodness towards that person.

00:26:13 --> 00:26:16

How often are those who cut off off

00:26:16 --> 00:26:17

or are rude,

00:26:17 --> 00:26:20

to those who don't sign on to their

00:26:20 --> 00:26:22

cause? And here, I'll just give a a

00:26:22 --> 00:26:23

personal,

00:26:24 --> 00:26:25

aside.

00:26:25 --> 00:26:27

My my daughter, Sumayya,

00:26:27 --> 00:26:28

who was,

00:26:28 --> 00:26:29

much more

00:26:30 --> 00:26:30

enthusiastic,

00:26:33 --> 00:26:36

supply chain ethicist even at

00:26:36 --> 00:26:38

12 or 13 years old

00:26:38 --> 00:26:41

than than I ever was, and and, was

00:26:41 --> 00:26:41

a vegetarian.

00:26:43 --> 00:26:45

Very very strict about this, strongly believed in

00:26:45 --> 00:26:46

it.

00:26:46 --> 00:26:48

Later in her life,

00:26:48 --> 00:26:51

she became very ill, and she's been many

00:26:51 --> 00:26:51

years

00:26:52 --> 00:26:52

now,

00:26:54 --> 00:26:56

very sick and and quite isolated,

00:26:56 --> 00:26:57

bedridden.

00:26:57 --> 00:26:59

But her mind is as sharp as anything

00:26:59 --> 00:27:02

and she's, really my Sheikh. She's taught me

00:27:02 --> 00:27:03

so much.

00:27:03 --> 00:27:05

And she she said to me, she was

00:27:05 --> 00:27:06

talking to me the other day and she

00:27:06 --> 00:27:08

said, remember when I lived with,

00:27:09 --> 00:27:13

with, a wonderful woman, a widow from Syria

00:27:13 --> 00:27:14

who,

00:27:14 --> 00:27:16

took her into her home. We used to

00:27:16 --> 00:27:18

live with her, and then when when Sumayya

00:27:18 --> 00:27:19

wanted to go back,

00:27:20 --> 00:27:22

to Chicago to school, she let her live

00:27:22 --> 00:27:24

with her for a year. And by that

00:27:24 --> 00:27:26

time, Sumayya was a vegetarian.

00:27:27 --> 00:27:29

And how, poor Khaleda did I, she would

00:27:29 --> 00:27:32

keep giving Sumayya dishes of food and she's

00:27:32 --> 00:27:34

the best cook in the whole city.

00:27:34 --> 00:27:37

And Sumay would say, but I'm a vegetarian,

00:27:38 --> 00:27:39

I can't eat that. And she said, well,

00:27:39 --> 00:27:41

it's it's not it's not meat, it's just

00:27:41 --> 00:27:43

little pieces, and with the roast rice and

00:27:43 --> 00:27:45

the peas. She's like, but that's meat. I

00:27:45 --> 00:27:46

can't eat meat.

00:27:47 --> 00:27:49

And and Sumay was saying to me, you

00:27:49 --> 00:27:49

know,

00:27:50 --> 00:27:52

I really wish I hadn't been like that.

00:27:52 --> 00:27:54

That my relationship with her

00:27:55 --> 00:27:57

is the thing that is more important to

00:27:57 --> 00:27:58

me now.

00:27:58 --> 00:28:00

Then why could she said, why couldn't I

00:28:00 --> 00:28:02

just have let it go for her?

00:28:03 --> 00:28:05

You know, and really understanding in a more

00:28:05 --> 00:28:06

holistic way.

00:28:07 --> 00:28:09

Not that she should have not been vegetarian,

00:28:09 --> 00:28:12

but understanding here, this food was not just

00:28:12 --> 00:28:14

me, it was love,

00:28:14 --> 00:28:15

attention,

00:28:16 --> 00:28:17

care. It was a relationship.

00:28:18 --> 00:28:20

It's not just about food in a in

00:28:20 --> 00:28:23

a bag as it were or a dish

00:28:23 --> 00:28:26

but about eating together, about having concerns.

00:28:30 --> 00:28:31

And

00:28:35 --> 00:28:36

concerns?

00:28:36 --> 00:28:37

And as I say, we have to be

00:28:37 --> 00:28:41

very careful about terms like extreme and moderate

00:28:41 --> 00:28:42

because the

00:28:42 --> 00:28:43

the response

00:28:43 --> 00:28:44

of those

00:28:44 --> 00:28:46

who do not want to care about these

00:28:46 --> 00:28:49

things is to say that's too extreme,

00:28:49 --> 00:28:50

Muslims are moderate.

00:28:51 --> 00:28:52

Or as I've heard before,

00:28:53 --> 00:28:55

Muslims aren't supposed to be dusty dervishes,

00:28:56 --> 00:28:58

you know, when you when you argue against

00:28:58 --> 00:28:58

consumerism,

00:28:59 --> 00:29:02

I literally heard that that term as if

00:29:02 --> 00:29:04

as if, to argue for some moderation,

00:29:06 --> 00:29:08

means that we are resorting to some kind

00:29:08 --> 00:29:11

of extreme form, of asceticism.

00:29:13 --> 00:29:15

But we have to realize that we live

00:29:15 --> 00:29:16

in a time

00:29:17 --> 00:29:19

in particular, and this is where where this

00:29:19 --> 00:29:20

idea of moderation really

00:29:21 --> 00:29:22

is,

00:29:22 --> 00:29:24

almost a meaningless term now.

00:29:25 --> 00:29:25

Because

00:29:26 --> 00:29:28

the reality is that consumption in our time

00:29:29 --> 00:29:31

simply is not like consumption in other times.

00:29:32 --> 00:29:35

Rather, it is more fraught with moral peril

00:29:35 --> 00:29:36

due to the nature of some of the

00:29:36 --> 00:29:38

goods and products that have been developed in

00:29:38 --> 00:29:38

modernity,

00:29:47 --> 00:29:50

period this been subject to an ongoing experiment

00:29:50 --> 00:29:53

without their consent to see how their labor

00:29:53 --> 00:29:55

and land could best be exploited to improve

00:29:55 --> 00:29:56

the lifestyles

00:29:56 --> 00:29:57

of privileged

00:29:57 --> 00:30:00

individuals and communities across the world.

00:30:00 --> 00:30:03

And more substantially, to further the economic interest

00:30:03 --> 00:30:04

of the politically

00:30:05 --> 00:30:06

dominant nations,

00:30:06 --> 00:30:07

including our own.

00:30:09 --> 00:30:11

Greed, selfishness and avarice, of course, are not

00:30:11 --> 00:30:12

distinctly modern characteristics.

00:30:13 --> 00:30:15

These are human failings to to which all

00:30:15 --> 00:30:16

people are subject,

00:30:16 --> 00:30:19

the ancients and the moderns, the illiterate, and

00:30:19 --> 00:30:19

the most educated.

00:30:21 --> 00:30:23

Our time, however, is characterized,

00:30:23 --> 00:30:25

among other things, by the rapid development of

00:30:25 --> 00:30:27

new tech technologies,

00:30:28 --> 00:30:29

and the reorganization

00:30:29 --> 00:30:32

of social structures, and the intensive exploitation of

00:30:32 --> 00:30:35

the environment to optimize the use and impact

00:30:35 --> 00:30:36

of such technologies.

00:30:37 --> 00:30:38

New technologies,

00:30:38 --> 00:30:40

materials, and methods of production are introduced with

00:30:40 --> 00:30:43

dizzying speed and with the course of power

00:30:43 --> 00:30:44

of modern nation states,

00:30:44 --> 00:30:47

and are sometimes imposed on whole populations

00:30:47 --> 00:30:49

in a very short period.

00:30:51 --> 00:30:53

Now, very often, these things,

00:30:54 --> 00:30:56

bring significant improvements to people's lives.

00:30:58 --> 00:31:00

The cash earned from export crops is used

00:31:00 --> 00:31:02

to advance the development of an economy.

00:31:02 --> 00:31:05

Technology freeze children from the burden of laboring,

00:31:07 --> 00:31:08

and makes it possible for them to be

00:31:08 --> 00:31:10

educated when schools are available.

00:31:11 --> 00:31:14

There's no doubt that plastic buckets, food containers,

00:31:14 --> 00:31:15

and medical supplies have significantly

00:31:16 --> 00:31:18

contributed to improved health and hygiene across the

00:31:18 --> 00:31:19

world.

00:31:19 --> 00:31:22

We've only realized lately, however, that many of

00:31:22 --> 00:31:25

these products which in themselves in themselves

00:31:26 --> 00:31:27

are beneficial

00:31:27 --> 00:31:30

result from a manufacturing process that generates noxious

00:31:30 --> 00:31:31

waste.

00:31:31 --> 00:31:33

Further, when many of these products are broken

00:31:33 --> 00:31:36

or replaced by more advanced models, they become

00:31:36 --> 00:31:38

pollution because they do not

00:31:38 --> 00:31:38

biodegrade.

00:31:41 --> 00:31:42

Before the

00:31:43 --> 00:31:44

synthetic products,

00:31:44 --> 00:31:47

every man made object would or could eventually

00:31:47 --> 00:31:49

degrade back into the earth. That's why you

00:31:49 --> 00:31:51

can find people,

00:31:51 --> 00:31:54

you know, sites where people have lived for

00:31:55 --> 00:31:57

3000 years in the near east, and they

00:31:57 --> 00:31:59

were able to live one on top of

00:31:59 --> 00:32:01

the other. And all they left behind are

00:32:01 --> 00:32:04

the little shards or sherds and dust

00:32:04 --> 00:32:07

of their previous existence. Not anymore. Those places

00:32:07 --> 00:32:09

are all filled with water bottles.

00:32:14 --> 00:32:16

What is saddest and most sinful in all

00:32:16 --> 00:32:18

of this is that the millions of poor

00:32:18 --> 00:32:20

people across the world

00:32:21 --> 00:32:23

experience few or none of the benefits of

00:32:23 --> 00:32:26

modern industry and agricultural methods, but they suffer

00:32:26 --> 00:32:28

the most directly from their toxic outflows.

00:32:30 --> 00:32:32

I remember when we went to Indonesia with

00:32:32 --> 00:32:33

the Nowhere Foundation,

00:32:34 --> 00:32:36

passing through the countryside in Java, through very

00:32:36 --> 00:32:38

small villages, along waterways. The inhabitants evidently own

00:32:38 --> 00:32:40

very few of the modern products that can

00:32:40 --> 00:32:41

improve health and well-being. They did not have

00:32:41 --> 00:32:42

well roofed and screened homes

00:32:44 --> 00:32:46

can improve health and well-being. They did not

00:32:46 --> 00:32:48

have well roofed and screened homes to keep

00:32:48 --> 00:32:50

out the rain and mosquitoes. They did not

00:32:50 --> 00:32:52

have a medical clinic or sturdy footwear.

00:32:53 --> 00:32:55

At the same time, these people had been

00:32:55 --> 00:32:58

robbed of any kind of pristine or bucolic

00:32:58 --> 00:33:00

rural environment that offers its own

00:33:01 --> 00:33:01

benefits.

00:33:03 --> 00:33:05

Their stream, for example, was clogged with plastic

00:33:05 --> 00:33:08

garbage and poisoned by the industrial chemicals produced

00:33:08 --> 00:33:10

by factories far upstream.

00:33:11 --> 00:33:14

And we see this in America too.

00:33:14 --> 00:33:16

South side of Chicago, where I used to

00:33:16 --> 00:33:19

live, that's where the garbage is incinerated.

00:33:21 --> 00:33:22

And the toxic

00:33:22 --> 00:33:25

outflow from that falls on the population there.

00:33:26 --> 00:33:28

Consumption and material progress in the modern modern

00:33:28 --> 00:33:29

age therefore poses,

00:33:30 --> 00:33:32

just like warfare and terrorism, challenges that are

00:33:32 --> 00:33:33

qualitatively

00:33:33 --> 00:33:34

different

00:33:34 --> 00:33:36

than those proposed in pre modernity.

00:33:37 --> 00:33:40

Terrorism, for example, is not new. It's well

00:33:40 --> 00:33:42

known that the term assassin has its origins

00:33:43 --> 00:33:44

in the Ismaili

00:33:45 --> 00:33:47

extremists who were dedicated to overthrowing the Abbasid

00:33:47 --> 00:33:48

Caliphate.

00:33:50 --> 00:33:50

The assassins

00:33:51 --> 00:33:55

performed there would often sneak into crowded public

00:33:55 --> 00:33:58

mosques during Friday services to kill officials with

00:33:58 --> 00:33:59

their daggers.

00:33:59 --> 00:34:01

Of course, as soon as they attack, they

00:34:01 --> 00:34:03

themselves were killed by guards of the crowd,

00:34:03 --> 00:34:05

so these were essentially suicide attacks.

00:34:06 --> 00:34:08

However, the damage to human life was always

00:34:08 --> 00:34:11

limited because a single person can kill a

00:34:11 --> 00:34:13

limited number of people with a dagger.

00:34:14 --> 00:34:16

Contrast this with our modern age where a

00:34:16 --> 00:34:18

single person can kill 100 of people with

00:34:18 --> 00:34:21

an explosive vest or even 1,000 by releasing

00:34:21 --> 00:34:24

a poisonous vapor into a crowded public place.

00:34:25 --> 00:34:26

More restrictive

00:34:26 --> 00:34:28

security measures or more robust

00:34:29 --> 00:34:32

security measures can certainly be justified when the

00:34:32 --> 00:34:33

harm that would be caused by such an

00:34:33 --> 00:34:34

attack

00:34:35 --> 00:34:36

is so vast.

00:34:37 --> 00:34:37

Similarly,

00:34:37 --> 00:34:40

no pre modern human product or form of

00:34:40 --> 00:34:42

manufacturing could ever have caused anything near the

00:34:42 --> 00:34:43

damage

00:34:43 --> 00:34:46

to people, water, fish, and birds,

00:34:46 --> 00:34:48

and the rest of the environment

00:34:48 --> 00:34:51

that the Chernobyl nuclear disaster of 1986

00:34:51 --> 00:34:51

caused.

00:34:54 --> 00:34:57

One could insist that more nuclear power plants

00:34:57 --> 00:34:59

are currently needed to meet our power consumption

00:34:59 --> 00:35:01

needs, but we could also insist that there's

00:35:01 --> 00:35:04

an ethical imperative to reduce our power consumption

00:35:04 --> 00:35:06

even if we can afford to pay for

00:35:06 --> 00:35:06

it.

00:35:07 --> 00:35:08

And this is where we get to the

00:35:08 --> 00:35:09

problem with fatwas.

00:35:10 --> 00:35:11

Fatwas that reduce complex

00:35:12 --> 00:35:14

problems to ideal types.

00:35:15 --> 00:35:17

So there is no, you know, to say

00:35:17 --> 00:35:19

something like, is it lawful

00:35:20 --> 00:35:20

to,

00:35:21 --> 00:35:22

to use,

00:35:22 --> 00:35:25

you know, electricity? Of course, it's lawful. But

00:35:25 --> 00:35:25

there's no

00:35:26 --> 00:35:26

electricity.

00:35:27 --> 00:35:27

They're just

00:35:28 --> 00:35:29

actual

00:35:29 --> 00:35:31

forms of electricity. They're actual

00:35:35 --> 00:35:38

electrical generation. There's no beef

00:35:38 --> 00:35:40

in an ideal or essential sense. There are

00:35:40 --> 00:35:42

only specific cuts of

00:35:42 --> 00:35:43

beef. So here,

00:35:44 --> 00:35:45

where we return,

00:35:46 --> 00:35:48

we see the federal literature is completely incapable

00:35:49 --> 00:35:50

of dealing with these issues

00:35:51 --> 00:35:54

because they constantly revert to ideals and not

00:35:54 --> 00:35:55

to actual situations.

00:35:56 --> 00:35:58

Or even when they refer to actual they

00:35:58 --> 00:36:01

believe they refer to actual situations, they they

00:36:01 --> 00:36:02

are not.

00:36:02 --> 00:36:05

They're still idealized or generalized,

00:36:06 --> 00:36:07

forms of questioning.

00:36:08 --> 00:36:10

And if this is the case, and here,

00:36:10 --> 00:36:11

I think, where where

00:36:11 --> 00:36:13

doctor Jackson and I agree

00:36:14 --> 00:36:18

is that, our our scholarly tradition, our Sharia

00:36:18 --> 00:36:20

tradition is not capable of

00:36:20 --> 00:36:21

dealing

00:36:21 --> 00:36:22

with many of these things.

00:36:23 --> 00:36:24

That the methodology,

00:36:25 --> 00:36:27

has some something to contribute,

00:36:28 --> 00:36:30

but it really is outside

00:36:30 --> 00:36:31

of the

00:36:32 --> 00:36:33

authority,

00:36:33 --> 00:36:34

understanding,

00:36:34 --> 00:36:35

ability,

00:36:37 --> 00:36:40

of the sharia tradition to deal with this.

00:36:41 --> 00:36:42

People,

00:36:42 --> 00:36:45

ordinary people, the people who are affected by

00:36:45 --> 00:36:47

these need to set their own limits,

00:36:49 --> 00:36:50

but religious leaders

00:36:50 --> 00:36:51

still have a role.

00:36:52 --> 00:36:54

And I believe their role primarily is to

00:36:54 --> 00:36:57

remind us of the morality upon which these

00:36:57 --> 00:36:58

rights are established,

00:36:59 --> 00:37:02

and to narrate and preach a moral vision.

00:37:04 --> 00:37:06

A moral vision that for Muslims is based

00:37:06 --> 00:37:08

in the Quran and the teachings of the

00:37:08 --> 00:37:10

of the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him.

00:37:11 --> 00:37:12

We How do we

00:37:13 --> 00:37:15

how do we even embody a sense that

00:37:15 --> 00:37:17

or embody a commitment

00:37:18 --> 00:37:21

to do these things? It is by learning

00:37:21 --> 00:37:23

them through a kind of imaginative

00:37:23 --> 00:37:24

exercise

00:37:24 --> 00:37:25

and through storytelling.

00:37:26 --> 00:37:29

And preaching really is that. Preaching is the

00:37:29 --> 00:37:31

the narrative and the stories that we hear

00:37:31 --> 00:37:32

mostly.

00:37:32 --> 00:37:34

And so, here we can,

00:37:34 --> 00:37:36

you know, the ability of of preachers

00:37:37 --> 00:37:39

to reference Quranic verses that talk about

00:37:40 --> 00:37:42

the consumption of wholesome things. Oh, you who

00:37:42 --> 00:37:44

believe do not make unlawful the wholesome things

00:37:44 --> 00:37:45

that God has made lawful for you, but

00:37:45 --> 00:37:46

commit no excess.

00:37:47 --> 00:37:49

For God does not love those given to

00:37:49 --> 00:37:50

excess.

00:37:50 --> 00:37:53

Oh, children of Adam, wear your wasteful. I'm

00:37:53 --> 00:37:54

terrified because we are the most wasteful,

00:38:01 --> 00:38:02

God does not love the wasteful. I'm terrified

00:38:02 --> 00:38:04

because we are the most wasteful

00:38:05 --> 00:38:07

people. And to say, God it's a very

00:38:07 --> 00:38:08

strong

00:38:08 --> 00:38:09

language,

00:38:09 --> 00:38:10

you know.

00:38:11 --> 00:38:13

God does not love those who are wasteful.

00:38:13 --> 00:38:15

So I think we need to and we

00:38:15 --> 00:38:18

need reminders of that. We need reminders because

00:38:18 --> 00:38:19

we love stuff.

00:38:20 --> 00:38:21

We love to buy stuff. We love to

00:38:21 --> 00:38:24

get stuff. We love to say that,

00:38:24 --> 00:38:25

hey,

00:38:25 --> 00:38:27

we love to quote the first part of

00:38:27 --> 00:38:27

the verse,

00:38:28 --> 00:38:30

you know, do not make unlawful the wholesome

00:38:30 --> 00:38:33

things that god has made lawful to you,

00:38:33 --> 00:38:35

but we just leave the the other part

00:38:35 --> 00:38:36

off. So we need

00:38:37 --> 00:38:39

though we need narrations of these. We need

00:38:39 --> 00:38:40

to be reminded of these things.

00:38:43 --> 00:38:45

We need to be reminded of the spiritual

00:38:45 --> 00:38:46

teachings,

00:38:47 --> 00:38:50

that Islam recognizes that desire if not controlled

00:38:50 --> 00:38:53

by intellect and conscious conscience can be insatiable.

00:39:01 --> 00:39:02

Desire for things.

00:39:03 --> 00:39:05

But if we seek our happiness in those

00:39:05 --> 00:39:06

things,

00:39:06 --> 00:39:09

if we confuse our satisfying our desires with

00:39:09 --> 00:39:09

happiness,

00:39:10 --> 00:39:13

then we're seeking in a mirage.

00:39:13 --> 00:39:15

It's in our own spiritual benefit than to

00:39:15 --> 00:39:16

realize

00:39:16 --> 00:39:18

the things of this world are not ends

00:39:18 --> 00:39:19

in themselves,

00:39:21 --> 00:39:22

but they are

00:39:22 --> 00:39:24

can be useful and that what we need

00:39:24 --> 00:39:27

to seek is the face of God as

00:39:27 --> 00:39:29

those who say in the Quran, we feed

00:39:29 --> 00:39:31

you face seeking the face of God. We

00:39:31 --> 00:39:33

wish from you no reward or thanks.

00:39:34 --> 00:39:36

One of the Prophet Muhammad's teachings is that,

00:39:36 --> 00:39:39

that is particularly compelling from a spiritual and

00:39:39 --> 00:39:42

psychological perspective in this respect is when you

00:39:42 --> 00:39:44

see someone who has more look to one

00:39:44 --> 00:39:45

who has less.

00:39:46 --> 00:39:48

Here we have a double movement beginning with

00:39:48 --> 00:39:51

the elicitation of desire and envy provoked by

00:39:51 --> 00:39:53

seeing someone who has a thing which one

00:39:53 --> 00:39:54

lacks oneself.

00:39:55 --> 00:39:58

Feeling this rising desire within oneself,

00:39:58 --> 00:40:00

an initial state for which we are not

00:40:00 --> 00:40:01

necessarily

00:40:02 --> 00:40:04

the believer must take the deliberate

00:40:05 --> 00:40:08

moral and spiritually sound action of moving

00:40:09 --> 00:40:11

his or her gaze from what he or

00:40:11 --> 00:40:12

she has not

00:40:12 --> 00:40:14

to the one who has even less.

00:40:15 --> 00:40:17

Now, envy and desire for more things should

00:40:17 --> 00:40:17

subside

00:40:18 --> 00:40:21

leading to a greater satisfaction in one's own

00:40:21 --> 00:40:21

state.

00:40:21 --> 00:40:22

Beyond satisfaction,

00:40:23 --> 00:40:25

compassion for the one who has less. Compassion

00:40:25 --> 00:40:28

can lead to further action to help the

00:40:28 --> 00:40:29

person who is relatively

00:40:30 --> 00:40:30

deprived.

00:40:31 --> 00:40:33

But this looking is a gaze and a

00:40:33 --> 00:40:35

gaze is a physical action.

00:40:36 --> 00:40:38

We turn our heads,

00:40:38 --> 00:40:41

we turn our eyes. It means we pay

00:40:41 --> 00:40:41

attention

00:40:42 --> 00:40:44

to the people who are beside us, who

00:40:44 --> 00:40:45

we walk by.

00:40:46 --> 00:40:48

I was in Minnesota a couple years ago,

00:40:48 --> 00:40:51

and it was the place where, the Republicans

00:40:51 --> 00:40:52

had their national convention.

00:40:53 --> 00:40:55

And, they told me that when,

00:40:56 --> 00:40:58

before the convention was in town,

00:40:58 --> 00:40:59

they insisted

00:40:59 --> 00:41:01

that the city put up a,

00:41:02 --> 00:41:04

it was almost like a a curtain. They

00:41:04 --> 00:41:04

were dividers,

00:41:06 --> 00:41:08

in front between the sidewalk

00:41:09 --> 00:41:11

and the convention where all of the homeless

00:41:11 --> 00:41:13

people were. So that the people coming to

00:41:13 --> 00:41:16

the convention didn't have to look at

00:41:16 --> 00:41:18

the homeless people on the street.

00:41:19 --> 00:41:20

So if we

00:41:21 --> 00:41:22

refuse to look

00:41:24 --> 00:41:26

unless we decide to turn

00:41:27 --> 00:41:27

and

00:41:29 --> 00:41:31

look, we can't begin this process

00:41:32 --> 00:41:32

of

00:41:33 --> 00:41:34

controlling our desires

00:41:35 --> 00:41:38

and of engendering compassion towards others.

00:41:39 --> 00:41:40

It means that we need

00:41:42 --> 00:41:43

to take that

00:41:45 --> 00:41:47

action. But we also need to understand that,

00:41:48 --> 00:41:49

and here,

00:41:49 --> 00:41:51

I'm not gonna have much time for it,

00:41:51 --> 00:41:53

but I want to go back to my

00:41:53 --> 00:41:54

question at the beginning

00:41:55 --> 00:41:57

about people who sacrifice themselves, who leave this

00:41:57 --> 00:42:00

country, or leave their countries, leave their communities,

00:42:00 --> 00:42:02

or even turn against their communities for the

00:42:02 --> 00:42:03

sake

00:42:03 --> 00:42:03

of

00:42:04 --> 00:42:07

the Muslim community, the Muslim Ummah, the greater

00:42:07 --> 00:42:07

community.

00:42:11 --> 00:42:12

One of the things that,

00:42:13 --> 00:42:15

they refer to is the statement of the

00:42:15 --> 00:42:17

prophet Muhammad when he said that

00:42:18 --> 00:42:18

the

00:42:21 --> 00:42:23

simile of the believers in regard to mutual

00:42:23 --> 00:42:25

love, affection, and fellow feeling is that of

00:42:25 --> 00:42:26

1 body.

00:42:26 --> 00:42:28

When any limb of it aches, the whole

00:42:28 --> 00:42:30

body aches because of sleeplessness

00:42:30 --> 00:42:31

and fever.

00:42:32 --> 00:42:32

Now,

00:42:34 --> 00:42:37

this really is extremely profound because psychologists

00:42:37 --> 00:42:39

have shown that, in

00:42:39 --> 00:42:41

fact, when people identify,

00:42:41 --> 00:42:43

another other people as

00:42:44 --> 00:42:46

as part of them or as part of

00:42:46 --> 00:42:49

the same group that watching that group even

00:42:49 --> 00:42:50

by by television,

00:42:51 --> 00:42:52

even distantly,

00:42:53 --> 00:42:54

watching harm being inflicted

00:42:55 --> 00:42:58

is a form of secondary trauma to themselves.

00:42:58 --> 00:42:59

As long as there's an identification

00:43:00 --> 00:43:01

with that

00:43:01 --> 00:43:02

person,

00:43:02 --> 00:43:04

that person will,

00:43:04 --> 00:43:06

begin to experience physiological

00:43:06 --> 00:43:07

symptoms of trauma.

00:43:08 --> 00:43:09

And I think we see it in a

00:43:09 --> 00:43:11

lot of our American Muslim community who spend

00:43:11 --> 00:43:12

a lot of time watching,

00:43:13 --> 00:43:14

trauma,

00:43:14 --> 00:43:17

traumatized Muslims, Muslims who are being

00:43:17 --> 00:43:19

hurt and beaten. So it isn't just a

00:43:19 --> 00:43:21

question of identity. It's not just an idea.

00:43:22 --> 00:43:24

It's not just that we have this idea

00:43:24 --> 00:43:25

of the Ummah

00:43:25 --> 00:43:27

that is that is,

00:43:27 --> 00:43:28

about identity.

00:43:29 --> 00:43:31

It's about a physical feeling,

00:43:32 --> 00:43:34

to really take seriously the idea that the

00:43:34 --> 00:43:37

body, the the community that is a body,

00:43:37 --> 00:43:40

the communal body is also a body

00:43:40 --> 00:43:43

to which we're connected and how profound that

00:43:43 --> 00:43:44

is.

00:43:44 --> 00:43:47

We live in this time of great displacement.

00:43:48 --> 00:43:50

Due to political, environmental,

00:43:50 --> 00:43:51

economic instability

00:43:51 --> 00:43:54

and disparities, many feel uprooted and distant from

00:43:54 --> 00:43:56

the place they consider their home as a

00:43:56 --> 00:43:57

result of forced migration.

00:43:59 --> 00:44:01

Others move easily in search of economic

00:44:02 --> 00:44:04

without ever grounding themselves deeply in the place

00:44:05 --> 00:44:06

that they live.

00:44:07 --> 00:44:09

The tremendous movement of people in the 21st

00:44:09 --> 00:44:11

century has been a challenge to nationalism,

00:44:11 --> 00:44:14

an ideology that depends on subscribing

00:44:14 --> 00:44:17

to a mythical narrative of a unified people.

00:44:18 --> 00:44:18

Multiculturalism

00:44:19 --> 00:44:21

has been attacked as a failed response to

00:44:21 --> 00:44:22

nationalism on the ground that it does not

00:44:22 --> 00:44:25

provide norms for common action and interests.

00:44:25 --> 00:44:27

The doctrine of shared values,

00:44:28 --> 00:44:31

promoted by many policy makers in response to

00:44:31 --> 00:44:32

the perceived failure of multiculturalism,

00:44:33 --> 00:44:35

is mostly presented in a jingoistic manner with

00:44:35 --> 00:44:36

little

00:44:36 --> 00:44:37

substance.

00:44:37 --> 00:44:38

And here is where,

00:44:39 --> 00:44:40

I believe,

00:44:40 --> 00:44:43

again, returning to the body and thinking about

00:44:43 --> 00:44:45

habitat not homeland is important.

00:44:45 --> 00:44:47

Thinking about neighborliness

00:44:47 --> 00:44:48

not

00:44:49 --> 00:44:49

not patriotism

00:44:50 --> 00:44:50

is important.

00:44:51 --> 00:44:53

To return to the statement

00:44:54 --> 00:44:56

that the Prophet gave Aisha when she said,

00:44:56 --> 00:44:57

I have something to give away and I

00:44:57 --> 00:44:59

have 2 neighbors to which one should I

00:44:59 --> 00:45:01

give it? He said, to the one whose

00:45:01 --> 00:45:02

door is closer.

00:45:09 --> 00:45:10

Particular

00:45:11 --> 00:45:13

place a particular place and space.

00:45:13 --> 00:45:16

I believe that a return to

00:45:16 --> 00:45:18

looking at our our identity

00:45:18 --> 00:45:20

as in the place where we are, what

00:45:20 --> 00:45:23

our ethical and moral responsibilities are, paying attention,

00:45:23 --> 00:45:25

looking, turning our heads

00:45:25 --> 00:45:27

is the thing that will make us feel

00:45:27 --> 00:45:29

grounded, is what will allow us to regain

00:45:29 --> 00:45:30

our ethics.

00:45:31 --> 00:45:33

At the same time, not being parochial.

00:45:34 --> 00:45:36

Because if we do focus on the body,

00:45:36 --> 00:45:38

it does mean that we return to that

00:45:38 --> 00:45:40

supply chain. It does mean that we care

00:45:40 --> 00:45:43

about the clothes that are made in Bangladesh

00:45:43 --> 00:45:45

that we put on our bodies.

00:45:45 --> 00:45:47

It does mean that we care about

00:45:47 --> 00:45:49

the fruits and vegetables that come from Mexico

00:45:56 --> 00:45:56

we're

00:45:58 --> 00:46:00

just focused on our nation. I don't think

00:46:00 --> 00:46:02

we should be focused primarily on nation. Yes,

00:46:02 --> 00:46:05

you have, you follow the law, but that

00:46:05 --> 00:46:07

isn't what makes people feel and care about

00:46:07 --> 00:46:08

others,

00:46:08 --> 00:46:10

and and do what's needed to make a

00:46:10 --> 00:46:13

good, and and and happy, and beneficial, and

00:46:13 --> 00:46:14

wholesome, and peaceful

00:46:18 --> 00:46:20

society. So we don't do that, we focus

00:46:20 --> 00:46:23

on on where we are and everything that

00:46:23 --> 00:46:25

comes in and everything that goes out as

00:46:25 --> 00:46:28

well. This is the this is the, the

00:46:28 --> 00:46:30

one of the problems with the the halal

00:46:31 --> 00:46:31

consumeristic

00:46:32 --> 00:46:34

model. It has an awful lot to do

00:46:34 --> 00:46:36

about what comes in, but not what we

00:46:36 --> 00:46:39

discard, both from our bodies and and,

00:46:40 --> 00:46:42

from the consumer goods that we use.

00:46:45 --> 00:46:46

Finally,

00:46:46 --> 00:46:48

and there's so much more to say,

00:46:49 --> 00:46:49

but I think

00:46:51 --> 00:46:53

a connection with

00:46:53 --> 00:46:55

between our body and the land is the

00:46:55 --> 00:46:57

thing that is really going to be the

00:46:57 --> 00:46:57

key.

00:46:58 --> 00:47:00

The body of the human being is made

00:47:00 --> 00:47:01

from the earth.

00:47:03 --> 00:47:04

And the

00:47:04 --> 00:47:04

Muslim

00:47:10 --> 00:47:13

Imam al Shafi'i said no child of Adam,

00:47:14 --> 00:47:16

the body of no child of Adam is

00:47:16 --> 00:47:17

impure. And that means,

00:47:19 --> 00:47:21

that is the thing that unites all people.

00:47:22 --> 00:47:24

It unites Muslims with non Muslims.

00:47:25 --> 00:47:27

It unites men and women,

00:47:28 --> 00:47:31

and it unites people with the earth, and

00:47:31 --> 00:47:33

the earth from which all other creatures come

00:47:33 --> 00:47:34

as well.

00:47:34 --> 00:47:37

I believe that a deeply embodied and landed

00:47:39 --> 00:47:40

return to ethics,

00:47:41 --> 00:47:43

will be important in helping us overcome

00:47:43 --> 00:47:44

some of the,

00:47:45 --> 00:47:46

false ideologies,

00:47:46 --> 00:47:47

false essentials,

00:47:48 --> 00:47:51

that have plagued our, ethical reasoning and legal

00:47:51 --> 00:47:53

reasoning. Thank you.

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