Ighsaan Taliep – IPSA Wasatiyyah Symposium 2018

Ighsaan Taliep
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The speakers discuss the importance of the Sharia and the prophetic transmission of its teachings, as well as the use of the sharia for statement of events and clothing clothing. They stress the significance of the Sunless Act of the Prophet Sun communicate and the need for a consensus in the political context. The speakers emphasize the importance of understanding the principles of Sharia and the challenges faced by Islamists in the face of the Sharia law, including the lack of restrictions on behavior and the need for guidance and respected leaders. They emphasize the importance of a legal framework to secure the bulk of Muslim marriage and creating a constructive legislative framework to secure the bulk of Muslim marriage.

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			And special thanks to Doctor
Fatima sidat. We are running
		
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			behind, and we are due for a
coffee break.
		
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			What I'm going to suggest, with
the permission of sheikhsan,
		
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			maybe Sheik San, if you can give
your address, and then we can
		
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			break for coffee. Would the
audience be agreeable to that?
		
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			Jessie won't talk for long
		
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			without further ado. Let me
		
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			first of all thank our panel for
their excellent inputs. Very
		
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			thought provoking, and I must
confess, as a journalist, I've
		
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			lost hair and gone gray covering
this issue of Muslim marriages for
		
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			23 years. I must confess, our next
session is going to be having a
		
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			look at the current status. Sorry,
that is applying Islamic law
		
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			within a with a Muslim, within a
Muslim minority concept a South
		
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			African case study. And the South
African to do it is Malani ich
		
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			Santali, who is also the principal
of IPSA. He wears many other hats
		
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			and turbans, But this morning, he
is from IPSA, the
		
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			cousin.
		
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			Firstly, I perhaps also need to
make the point that before we
		
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			break, and I'll really try to be
quick about it. Sha Allah, is that
		
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			it's perhaps fortuitous that our
respondent, Malini Hassan Hendrix,
		
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			has also informed last night that
due to ill health, he has had to
		
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			withdraw from the proceedings this
morning, so
		
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			that helps us along in terms of
time. But I was really looking
		
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			forward also to his presentation.
		
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			So the question of applying
Islamic law legislation within a
		
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			Muslim minority context, and
really looking, starting to look
		
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			at South Africa as as a case
study, so from an outline
		
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			perspective, question which I wish
to pose is, what is Islamic law?
		
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			This may be a question which seems
redundant, but I think it is quite
		
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			important for us to reflect
		
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			the Sharia and change in in fatwa.
And
		
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			then also a particular principle,
I think, which is valid and
		
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			relevant for us, is the
fundamental rule in Muslim
		
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			relations with others.
		
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			And then looking at the thick of
minorities, as well as then
		
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			traversing from a fic of
minorities to a fic of
		
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			citizenship. And incidentally, the
reason why I was looking forward
		
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			to molinefs and Hendrix's
presentation also today, is that
		
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			he has really cultivated a passion
to talk about the fic of
		
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			citizenship. In particular,
		
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			nonetheless. So the first question
then we're posing is, what is
		
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			Sharia?
		
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			And
		
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			if we look at this particular
slide here, we'll find that on
		
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			your left and looking at the big
circle we are referring to Sharia
		
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			as revealed Sharia. And in the
revealed Sharia, we have the Quran
		
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			in the prophetic tradition.
		
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			And to be noted also is that the
prophetic tradition is not in its
		
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			entirety inside the circle of the
revealed Sharia.
		
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			And then the next
		
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			sort of
		
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			space there that we're looking at
is that, how all of that feeds
		
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			into the development of fiqh and
the relevance of in that
		
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			particular regard, there has been
mentioned. And then a third level,
		
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			or tier of development, which is
known sort of more generally as
		
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			sia shadaria, which is public
oriented policy, and the
		
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			formulation of kanun
		
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			and Kanu is then sort of
translated as processes of
		
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			legislation. So legislative
processes
		
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			and so I think it is very critical
for us to really at least be
		
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			cognizant of these three tiers of.
		
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			The operation of Islamic law,
because it is patent
		
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			from sometimes within ulama
circles that we cross the
		
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			boundaries in terms of what is
Islamic law.
		
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			Is Islamic law, Sharia is Islamic
law, fiqh. So when we're talking
		
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			about Islamic law, we are
referring to both of them,
		
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			and an area which, of course, from
a South African perspective, is
		
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			where the process of the Muslim
marriage bill really fits into,
		
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			which is the development of
legislation and that from the
		
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			classical sources, perspective is
within the realm of what is known
		
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			as Si, as a Shari.
		
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			Okay, so to come back to the first
sort of
		
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			space and tier,
		
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			the Quran, of course, is what we
have as the first and primary
		
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			source, which is known as the
Sharia. And so the Quran in all
		
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			its content, we believe to be
		
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			immutable. The Quran is
established decisively,
		
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			as well as the fact that it's on
the other hand, though, when it
		
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			comes to its implications of how
these texts, the sacred texts, may
		
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			be interpreted, that may be a
different story, because, albeit
		
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			that in its entirety, it is
established authentically in a
		
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			decisive pottery manner, its
implications are not necessarily
		
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			as such, and that for the most
part of it, the interpretation of
		
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			the sacred texts are open to
different opinions, And so its
		
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			indications and its implications,
therefore, are Lonni for the most
		
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			part, which is speculatory. And it
is for that reason that obviously
		
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			when we look at the next tier,
which is the fiqh, where you have
		
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			this plethora and this array of
different schools of thought of
		
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			jurisprudence.
		
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			So the Quran then has, very
importantly, those two very
		
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			specific, I think, characteristics
which are very important for us to
		
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			consider.
		
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			Secondly, if we look at the
prophetic tradition, we will find
		
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			that the prophetic tradition,
similarly, is obviously regarded
		
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			as like the Quran is the primary
the hadith is the secondary source
		
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			of legislation in Islam. And so
the prophetic tradition then
		
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			becomes part of the revealed
Sharia, to the extent that
		
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			obviously we have, as we do, also
that the same characterization of
		
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			katriya fubuts. In other words,
that it is decisively decisively
		
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			authenticated. You may have the
category of the Hadith which is
		
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			Sunnah, or the Sunnah, which is
mutawatera, but then you have
		
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			those that are not necessarily
authenticated as decisively as is
		
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			the criteria that is applied to
the Quran, and that there again,
		
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			the application of the speculatory
sort of criteria becomes relevant
		
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			and applicable to the to the to
this prophetic sunnah In terms of
		
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			its authentication,
		
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			in terms of the actual content of
the prophetic tradition
		
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			is where the ABC references come
in. And so, from the perspective
		
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			of the usur, our ulama have made
distinctions between what are the
		
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			Sunnah of the Prophet sallallahu
that is intended to be
		
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			legislation,
		
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			normative, tertiary,
		
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			and what are the component and the
content of the Sunnah that is not
		
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			intended to be tertiary,
legislative.
		
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			And they are then the three
categories that apply here. And so
		
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			the first one will have is that
which is Tishri, which is where
		
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			really a fits in, and it's part of
the revealed Sharia.
		
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			And in that particular context
there, the Prophet sallallahu
		
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			alayhi wa sallam would have been
acted in one of three capacities,
		
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			either as the messenger of Allah
that conveys Allah to others
		
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			mission to humanity, or conveys
the message to humanity as his
		
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			mission. Or he may then, in other
words, as a Rasul. Secondly, he
		
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			may be acting in his capacity as
a.
		
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			A judge, where he has to settle
disputes in society. And so the
		
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			access to those categories of
sunnah is not open for everyone,
		
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			but for people who are in similar
positions, who have to dispense
		
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			with disputes. And the third
category is the category where the
		
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			prophet would have acted as a
leader or
		
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			the ruler of the state. Again,
those categories are not access,
		
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			accessible widely to everyone, you
and me here as as lay people, but
		
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			normative in terms of the ruler,
the leader and government,
		
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			then we have the Sunnah of the
Prophet sallallahu sallam, which
		
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			is
		
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			not normative, veritashiri in
other which is not for legislative
		
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			purposes. And this sunnah of the
Prophet sallallahu Sallam is then
		
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			further categorized into two
areas, and that is where the
		
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			Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa
sallam, then would be either
		
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			recorded and reported to be doing
things that human beings normally
		
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			do,
		
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			right so in the way in which the
Prophet sallallahu sallam, for
		
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			example,
		
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			would have conducted his affairs
as a human being in society, would
		
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			have been one of the members of
society, and he would have done
		
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			the same things that everybody
else is doing in society.
		
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			And so those
		
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			traditions which are then narrated
of the Prophet Salla Salam is not
		
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			intended to be normative. And so
		
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			the way in which the Prophet,
sallAllahu, sallam, for example,
		
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			would have dressed
		
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			is not something which is
exclusive to the Muslims in the
		
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			community. The dress code of Islam
is very clear in terms of what are
		
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			the criteria that need to be
confirmed,
		
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			terms of our uncovering, etcetera,
etcetera, but the mode of the
		
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			clothes or the clothing pieces are
informed by the culture or the
		
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			roof of the society.
		
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			So those are, yes, Incorporated,
you'll find them referenced in
		
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			buchare, etc, etc, but they are
not intended to be normative.
		
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			And so as for example, as I'm
standing here in front of you, I'm
		
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			looking slightly different than
somebody, for example, that he is
		
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			like Sheik nurdin, Muhammad nurdin
lemu, for example, was. And so his
		
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			tie is far more
		
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			sort of identifiable to the
Nigerian context and culture and
		
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			and this is kind of not
identifiable.
		
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			So
		
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			at the same time, when we then
look at that which is non
		
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			tertiary, non normative, we also
have issues with the Prophet
		
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			sallallahu, alaihi salam would
have guided and given advice. And
		
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			very commonly, the Prophet
sallallahu Sallam would be asked
		
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			by the Companions, oh prophet of
Allah, is this revelation or is
		
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			this your opinion?
		
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			They would ask, is this revelation
or is this your opinion. And in
		
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			many instances, the prophet Salla
Salam say no, but I'm just doing
		
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			this because this is what I think
is a good idea. But tell me what
		
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			you think, and then you would tell
the Prophet sallallahu sallam.
		
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			There are many, many incidences
like this, whether it is in the
		
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			form of
		
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			warfare and strategies and
stratagems, or whether it's in the
		
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			form of agricultural kind of
methodologies that are being
		
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			employed by the farmers, etc, etc,
and so forth and so those are not
		
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			intended, obviously to be
normative. And we will then find
		
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			that b and c folds outside the
revealed the revealed Sharia, and
		
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			is not intended to be part of the
ideal Sharia.
		
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			Then if we move from there and go
to the development of the of the
		
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			fiqh, the fiqh is, is, is
obviously from just terminology
		
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			perspective, we use the word
Islamic law. But then sometimes,
		
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			when we speak about Sharia, we
also use the term Islamic law, but
		
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			the two are distinctly different
concepts, and so when we talk
		
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			about the fiqh, it's not about
Revelation, it's about the
		
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			processes of interpretation,
understanding and making sense of
		
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			what is contained in the sacred
text. And those formulations have
		
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			been being recorded, as well as
being developed into the
		
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			jurisprudence, then more
accurately, over the decade or
		
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			over the periods the epochs and
those jurisprudences and its
		
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			development was once again very
key in.
		
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			Formulation was the question of
the RUF of society. Was the whole
		
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			notion of also perhaps synonymous
with the roof the ad, the sort of
		
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			norms and the customary practices
of society. And so in its
		
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			interpretation, like Shaham would
also referred to for
		
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			purposes of what recognition of
marriage laws would mean for us in
		
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			a South African context,
		
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			the considerations are extremely
and is required to be extremely
		
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			context sensitive. And so
contextualization becomes very,
		
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			very key, and that is where,
obviously, and either also
		
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			operates.
		
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			So that is then, therefore to be,
I think the point is to be made is
		
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			to say that
		
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			sort of very, I think reckless
statements that are being made is
		
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			to say, is to say, and claims that
are being made that those who want
		
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			to see legislation take place, or
people that's interested in
		
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			changing Islamic law. And then,
with this, when the word is said,
		
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			changing Islamic law, it
automatically also is just
		
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			extended to Sharia.
		
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			And then not just Sharia, but
actually Quran wants to be
		
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			changed, which I think is really
		
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			disingenuous and dishonest,
		
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			but it could also be informed by
ignorance. And so the whole then
		
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			question that that then develops
from there is what we then have as
		
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			a norm in the Muslim world, where
the the processes of legislation
		
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			and the development of legislation
is far more mature than obviously,
		
00:16:48 --> 00:16:53
			our own first encounter here in as
a Muslim community. And so it's
		
00:16:53 --> 00:16:56
			not as if this hasn't happened
yet. If you go to different
		
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			countries in different parts of
the world,
		
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			especially in the field of family
law. Obviously, this is something
		
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			which is quite developed. And so
here we're talking about par noon
		
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			and sia Sharia, which is oriented
public oriented policy, which is
		
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			then employed by the ruler, by the
government. And this is where
		
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			Shariat point comes in. Is because
the ruler then will then
		
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			extract from all of the sources
which or all the options that
		
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			could be available within the
corpus of the jurisprudence
		
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			the legislative process. The
ruler, or in this instance, in our
		
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			case, the legislature or
parliament, will then look at all
		
00:17:41 --> 00:17:45
			the options that are available
there, and perhaps that are not
		
00:17:45 --> 00:17:48
			available, that could still become
available, that are then
		
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			formulated as the most appropriate
in accordance with the roof of the
		
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			South African context here, and
then Obviously having formulated
		
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			that having. And here, obviously
the process of formulation in a
		
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			legislative context with a
parliamentary dispensation is
		
00:18:09 --> 00:18:13
			where there is public,
participatory processes which we
		
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			obviously are all part of. And so
the Ulema Muslim community,
		
00:18:18 --> 00:18:22
			academicians, everyone, they are
all part of that process. So when
		
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			then we all manage to find a
consensus, if, Inshallah, we can
		
00:18:26 --> 00:18:33
			do so, we are then able to enjoy
the deficiency, which was lamented
		
00:18:33 --> 00:18:38
			earlier on by Sheik Riyad fatal,
that the executive authority of
		
00:18:38 --> 00:18:43
			government is then squarely behind
the implementation of that piece
		
00:18:43 --> 00:18:47
			of legislation, which everybody
would have contributed towards
		
00:18:47 --> 00:18:52
			developing. And I think this, yes,
as Sharia, many examples, of
		
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			course, of this as well. But very
perhaps
		
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			appropriately is if one looks, for
example, at what say now, who are
		
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			in who had done at the time when
he found that there was just a
		
00:19:04 --> 00:19:08
			sense of almost irresponsibility
and recklessness with the way in
		
00:19:08 --> 00:19:15
			which a Talaq was pronounced in
his time and in his position as
		
00:19:15 --> 00:19:20
			the as the Amir, as the ruler, He
then from AC as a Sharia
		
00:19:20 --> 00:19:26
			perspective, public oriented
policy determined and decreed that
		
00:19:26 --> 00:19:29
			this folly that was somehow
		
00:19:30 --> 00:19:35
			describing the context where three
talaqs were being issued,
		
00:19:35 --> 00:19:41
			willineri, he would then make
those people accountable for the
		
00:19:41 --> 00:19:47
			irresponsible attitudes and make
the three talaqs in one sitting
		
00:19:47 --> 00:19:52
			equivalent to to three talaqs, as
opposed to what it was before in
		
00:19:52 --> 00:19:57
			the time of the Prophet PSB upon
him in terms of the Allah and in
		
00:19:57 --> 00:19:59
			his own Khilafah, also in the
first period.
		
00:20:00 --> 00:20:01
			Was that those three
		
00:20:03 --> 00:20:08
			issuance of utterances would be
regarded in one sitting as one
		
00:20:08 --> 00:20:14
			single, as one single. It is
telling that a person like whom
		
00:20:14 --> 00:20:19
			Shaykh LIMU had also referenced
that towards the end of the life
		
00:20:19 --> 00:20:20
			of Sina Alvar
		
00:20:21 --> 00:20:28
			Ibn Al Josi in his book on uso,
lamal Karin says that Sina ower
		
00:20:28 --> 00:20:29
			had, in fact,
		
00:20:30 --> 00:20:33
			regretted that particular
		
00:20:34 --> 00:20:39
			sort of position that he had
installed or that he had taken and
		
00:20:39 --> 00:20:43
			and applied in society,
nonetheless. So I think from our
		
00:20:43 --> 00:20:47
			perspectives, the whole notion of,
what is Sharia? Where is it that
		
00:20:47 --> 00:20:51
			we're talking about the immutable
law, the unchangeable laws of the
		
00:20:51 --> 00:20:54
			Sharia, and we are the other
areas, obviously, which speaks
		
00:20:54 --> 00:20:58
			about jurisprudence, development
of it in the context of and even
		
00:20:58 --> 00:21:02
			further to that sia Sharia, which
is applied into a context of
		
00:21:02 --> 00:21:09
			kanun. The kanun, then again,
enjoys the and that is where, in
		
00:21:09 --> 00:21:11
			the Muslim world, how it has
happened,
		
00:21:12 --> 00:21:17
			where the formation and the
formulation of the the bill before
		
00:21:17 --> 00:21:21
			it becomes an act, is then
something which,
		
00:21:22 --> 00:21:27
			because of the presence and the
participation of everyone through
		
00:21:27 --> 00:21:31
			parliamentary processes and the
consensus that is reached on the
		
00:21:31 --> 00:21:37
			on this piece of document, this
then means that the Ascent by
		
00:21:37 --> 00:21:42
			Government of this piece of
legislation into as an act.
		
00:21:44 --> 00:21:52
			Then removes all disputes that you
find in the different madame. So
		
00:21:52 --> 00:21:53
			there's no
		
00:21:54 --> 00:21:58
			fanaticism about the Hanafi
mother. There's no insistence
		
00:21:58 --> 00:22:00
			about the sheriff reposition.
There's no insistence about that,
		
00:22:00 --> 00:22:05
			but all of it becomes part of this
for a piece of legislation for
		
00:22:05 --> 00:22:09
			purposes of implementation and
application and and that is really
		
00:22:09 --> 00:22:13
			critical, because also in a
kawariya, the legal Maxim's
		
00:22:13 --> 00:22:20
			perspective, the the the maxim
leads and says that Huq muhatila
		
00:22:21 --> 00:22:25
			that the command of the government
dissipates with all forms of
		
00:22:25 --> 00:22:30
			disagreements, etc, you Shafiq, we
will rush through here as we're
		
00:22:30 --> 00:22:35
			sorry about that. And so the next
slide that we're looking at is
		
00:22:35 --> 00:22:40
			Sharia and change in fatwa, change
in ruling based on change in time
		
00:22:40 --> 00:22:43
			is not reprehensible. Is yet
again, another fifth maxim that
		
00:22:43 --> 00:22:46
			says the
		
00:22:47 --> 00:22:51
			Asmaa so when times change, it is
not reprehensible. It's not
		
00:22:51 --> 00:22:55
			frowned upon that the rules and a
calm also change, and then,
		
00:22:55 --> 00:23:00
			perhaps to just preface or put a
writer to that pertain to the
		
00:23:00 --> 00:23:03
			questions, again, of each Ihan
which pertains to the bulk of the
		
00:23:03 --> 00:23:10
			laws of the jurisprudence, and
these changes in that will attract
		
00:23:10 --> 00:23:15
			change in fatwa can be as a result
of change in place, change in
		
00:23:15 --> 00:23:21
			time, change in condition and
change in custom and off. Okay, so
		
00:23:21 --> 00:23:25
			again, the question of change in
time is more reference to facade
		
00:23:25 --> 00:23:29
			as a man, where people have become
less ethical, in the in the in the
		
00:23:29 --> 00:23:33
			conduct amongst one another,
etcetera, etcetera. And so, yeah,
		
00:23:33 --> 00:23:36
			there's, there's all sorts of
examples for that as well. Next
		
00:23:36 --> 00:23:36
			slide,
		
00:23:37 --> 00:23:41
			when we look at our condition and
situation in South Africans. I
		
00:23:41 --> 00:23:46
			think the development of the fit
of minorities as a separate
		
00:23:46 --> 00:23:51
			sphere, a separate space of
academic endeavor and development
		
00:23:51 --> 00:23:54
			for jurisprudence is very, very
important. And importantly there,
		
00:23:54 --> 00:23:58
			in particular, is the whole
relationship of Muslims with non
		
00:23:58 --> 00:24:01
			Muslims, and how we interact with
the secular context which we found
		
00:24:01 --> 00:24:07
			ourselves in which clearly the
Quranic reference in 68 to nine,
		
00:24:07 --> 00:24:11
			Suratul muntahida makes very, very
clear that Muslims obviously do
		
00:24:11 --> 00:24:16
			not have any form of limitations
in the way in which they interact
		
00:24:16 --> 00:24:19
			with the environment with non
Muslims On the basis of those
		
00:24:19 --> 00:24:25
			verses. There next slide, if we
then look at the fifth of
		
00:24:25 --> 00:24:30
			minorities. This is just a quote
here from prasashi and Kamali is
		
00:24:31 --> 00:24:36
			minorities in light of the higher
objectives of the Sharia. And so
		
00:24:36 --> 00:24:41
			the whole idea, obviously, of the
challenges that are faced by
		
00:24:41 --> 00:24:45
			Muslims because they are in a
secular dispensation, and that the
		
00:24:45 --> 00:24:50
			culture and the environment around
them is one which be may be at
		
00:24:50 --> 00:24:54
			variance with their own kind of
sensibilities. I think for us as
		
00:24:54 --> 00:24:55
			Muslims in this country,
		
00:24:56 --> 00:24:59
			we have a far stronger position.
		
00:25:00 --> 00:25:03
			And in terms of how we relate to
the field of minorities, compared
		
00:25:03 --> 00:25:07
			to, say, for example, in Europe,
where the age of those communities
		
00:25:07 --> 00:25:11
			there is relatively young compared
to our own existence here, and we
		
00:25:11 --> 00:25:14
			really don't have any hang ups in
terms of how we relate to our
		
00:25:14 --> 00:25:19
			environment, how we interact with
the judicial structures and the
		
00:25:19 --> 00:25:22
			system, how we interact with
government and our roles as
		
00:25:22 --> 00:25:24
			citizens in the country
		
00:25:25 --> 00:25:28
			at the same time. However, it is
important to note that there have
		
00:25:28 --> 00:25:32
			been people who have been
trailblazing in this regard, the
		
00:25:32 --> 00:25:38
			likes of Tara dawi, the likes of
tahija balawani, the likes of visa
		
00:25:38 --> 00:25:42
			Hashim Kamali himself. And many of
them have obviously made the point
		
00:25:42 --> 00:25:47
			to say that this is not a rupture
from the classical fit. It is but
		
00:25:47 --> 00:25:52
			an extension of the classical FIP.
And so I think that's an important
		
00:25:52 --> 00:25:55
			point for us also to bear Emma.
And so the next slide we're
		
00:25:55 --> 00:25:59
			looking obviously at being the
higher purposes of the Sharia and
		
00:25:59 --> 00:26:01
			the very discussions that show
Mohammed LIMU, which I don't think
		
00:26:01 --> 00:26:05
			we have to repeat right now I've
had this morning in terms of how
		
00:26:05 --> 00:26:10
			would the formulation of
legislation be guided and governed
		
00:26:10 --> 00:26:15
			by the questions of interest, the
well being of society, the masala
		
00:26:15 --> 00:26:18
			of society, the references,
obviously there, to Ibn Al qayms
		
00:26:19 --> 00:26:24
			statement about the Sharia and its
entirety being about masala, and
		
00:26:24 --> 00:26:28
			that that is basically, it's,
it's, it's structure, and then
		
00:26:28 --> 00:26:34
			also the the the references to the
the preservation of life,
		
00:26:34 --> 00:26:37
			preservation of faith, the
preservation and those six
		
00:26:37 --> 00:26:42
			obviously guiding principles
there, that whenever, and this is
		
00:26:42 --> 00:26:48
			the important part, whenever we
interpret text of the Sunnah and
		
00:26:48 --> 00:26:52
			text of the Quran, which may be
less than explicit in its
		
00:26:52 --> 00:26:56
			implication, we must always
remember that its interpretation
		
00:26:56 --> 00:27:02
			must always be guided and governed
by these higher purposes and
		
00:27:02 --> 00:27:06
			values of the Sharia, and that
when anything of interpretive
		
00:27:06 --> 00:27:10
			processes go in contravention day
to it will be struck down to make
		
00:27:10 --> 00:27:13
			sure that it becomes harmonized
with the higher purposes of the
		
00:27:13 --> 00:27:17
			Sharia. And so in the next slide,
		
00:27:18 --> 00:27:22
			the question obviously that we, as
in Islam, there is this
		
00:27:22 --> 00:27:25
			fundamental principle about the
respect for the rule of law, that
		
00:27:25 --> 00:27:29
			where we find ourselves, we uphold
the law. And that Ibn taymiyya is
		
00:27:30 --> 00:27:34
			little statement there better
living 60 years under tyranny than
		
00:27:34 --> 00:27:39
			one night under anarchy. Is not to
justify tyranny, but is to
		
00:27:39 --> 00:27:45
			highlight how seriously Islam
views the question of the rule of
		
00:27:45 --> 00:27:46
			law.
		
00:27:47 --> 00:27:51
			And so I think that for us is very
important. For us as Muslims,
		
00:27:51 --> 00:27:55
			again, living in South Africa, we
must be guided by the fact that
		
00:27:55 --> 00:28:02
			the Muslim world views Muslims in
South Africa almost enviously at
		
00:28:02 --> 00:28:07
			times, for how good we have it,
for the freedoms we enjoy, for the
		
00:28:07 --> 00:28:11
			protections we enjoy, and all of
this, obviously, as Professor
		
00:28:11 --> 00:28:14
			Fateh might also reference,
obviously comes out of our
		
00:28:14 --> 00:28:17
			Constitution. So all the
guarantees, all the freedoms in
		
00:28:17 --> 00:28:20
			the Bill of Rights, and comes
obviously also with the question
		
00:28:20 --> 00:28:24
			of constitutional supremacy. And
so how constitutional supremacy is
		
00:28:24 --> 00:28:28
			navigated, I think, for us, is
also not an impossible task. Some
		
00:28:28 --> 00:28:32
			of the issues in the current bill,
notwithstanding, were being
		
00:28:32 --> 00:28:37
			considered in light thereof, even
though that may not be the
		
00:28:37 --> 00:28:41
			ultimate yet. And if where we are
at right now, and some of the
		
00:28:41 --> 00:28:44
			informed opinions believe that
this will the current case that's
		
00:28:44 --> 00:28:47
			in the Western Cape High Court
will land up again in the
		
00:28:47 --> 00:28:49
			Constitutional Court. It will
hopefully afford us the
		
00:28:49 --> 00:28:52
			opportunity, once again, to become
a little bit far more
		
00:28:54 --> 00:28:58
			engaging of of these processes in
that regard, and so navigating a
		
00:28:58 --> 00:29:02
			pathway for creating a viable
legislative framework to secure
		
00:29:02 --> 00:29:06
			the bulk of Muslim marriage,
divorce and customary laws are
		
00:29:06 --> 00:29:10
			then accommodated, is something
which is of extreme, I think,
		
00:29:10 --> 00:29:14
			utmost important for us, given the
preceding presentations that had
		
00:29:14 --> 00:29:19
			been made and said Ahmed in the
last presentation last night, he
		
00:29:19 --> 00:29:22
			then references Something similar
to that effect. And he speaks to
		
00:29:22 --> 00:29:26
			one of these judges, which are
appointed outside the precincts of
		
00:29:26 --> 00:29:30
			Al Medina by the name of Sure. And
he speaks to him about the
		
00:29:30 --> 00:29:36
			importance of the delivery of
rights and the securing of rights,
		
00:29:36 --> 00:29:41
			and that if, in essence, the
legislation, whether it's the
		
00:29:41 --> 00:29:47
			Quran and the Sunnah is about
justice. It's really a city to be
		
00:29:47 --> 00:29:51
			talking about justice when we
cannot deliver justice, and that
		
00:29:51 --> 00:29:54
			when we cannot execute justice on
the ground. And that's his kind of
		
00:29:54 --> 00:29:59
			reference to one of his his
judges. And then the reference
		
00:29:59 --> 00:29:59
			that I made already.
		
00:30:00 --> 00:30:03
			Three in closing was that the
legal Maxim says that the
		
00:30:03 --> 00:30:08
			authority, the authority of the
executive eliminates disputes, is
		
00:30:08 --> 00:30:13
			something which is there for us as
a tool, and when we then become to
		
00:30:13 --> 00:30:17
			a point where, where we can we
consensus can be forged, it then
		
00:30:17 --> 00:30:22
			obviously forges the opportunity
to have a piece of legislation in
		
00:30:22 --> 00:30:27
			front of us that we know that the
Sharia then justifies and
		
00:30:27 --> 00:30:28
			vindicates that when
		
00:30:31 --> 00:30:34
			executive authority and
legislative authority and
		
00:30:34 --> 00:30:36
			parliamentary authority is
		
00:30:37 --> 00:30:43
			is assented To, then obviously it
means we would be able to live
		
00:30:43 --> 00:30:47
			inshallah harmoniously without
having nightmares about which
		
00:30:47 --> 00:30:51
			mother we belong to and which
mother we don't belong to. Sugar.
		
00:30:51 --> 00:30:52
			Very much. Salaam. Warning you.