Hamzah Wald Maqbul – The Struggle to Know Episode 004 Going Back
AI: Summary ©
The Cleveland Public Library allowed the episode to be recorded and introduced Hamza Makbul and Dawood Mohammed, who discussed the importance of letting people into their hearts and the need to let them into their hearts. The speakers also talked about struggles with violence and deceptivism, struggles with violence and deceptivism, and their desire to become a Muslim. They emphasized honoring their kinship bonds and experiences in their journey to reconnect with their parents. The speakers also discussed the struggles of being black, the importance of learning to change one's name, protecting the-speaking community, and being a serious person. They expressed gratitude for their experiences and desire to be appreciated.
AI: Summary ©
Welcome back to the struggle to know. My
name is Tristan.
I am here with, some 22 special guests
that we have today. And,
as we get into this conversation, I'd like
to
start off, by thanking the Cleveland Public Library
for,
allowing us to use some equipment in order
to record this episode,
the struggle to know. So I'm gonna go
ahead and pass it over to
Hamza Makbul, inshallah,
with you. For those of you who know
me,
I'm sorry. And And for those who don't
know me, my name is Hamza. At any
rate, and then we have sheikh, our distinguished,
sheikh, Moana Musa Surapang,
and 2 special guests,
brother Yahya Abdul Lim Coats and, brother Dawood
Mohammed.
And we wanted to talk about,
a couple
of important topics,
that kind of
help us reconnect
to, our spirit as a Muslim community,
here in America.
Our spirit which is connected through our forefathers
and our ancestors and iman,
it's really important to know about
those who came before you. And I think
there's a type of
kinda like protestant sensibility that people have, which
is like we have a radical disconnect with
the past. So there's me and then there's
the prophet in the Quran, and then there's
Allah, and to heck with everybody else.
But that's that's not how that works.
How it works is,
like a lot of said in his book
is, you know, that
him. Mhmm. That the and the Ansar Allah
praises them and then says those who came
after them,
forgive us and forgive those who came before
us in Iman.
And don't put in our hearts,
rancor toward those who believe.
Oh, our lord. Indeed, you are kind and
indeed, you are merciful. And so we gotta
know we gotta know who our forefathers are
in Iman. And that's, you know, the spirit
is something stronger than even blood.
And so those of,
you know, those those of us who have
Islam, even if you're somebody who is like
a convert to the din, those who came
before you, those people who transmitted that that
din to those people before you, we gotta
know about them in order for ourselves to
be spiritually grounded. So,
with that, I wanted to maybe take a
a moment to ask brother Yahia
first and then brother Daud or in any
order, you, you brothers would like to maybe
introduce yourself a little bit before delving into
the specifics of this this team. Okay.
My name is, Yahya
Abdul Aleem Coates.
The Senegalese
call me, Yahya Gay. That's my adopted Senegalese
name. That's right. Gay,
but, converted to Islam in 1994.
In June June of 94. So it's been
a been a long time and skin a
lot and experience a lot, but, you know,
the,
at that time, Inshallah, the
the whole fever from Malcolm X was real
popular. You know? The roots movie came out
again
for a second time. So that that roots
movie Brother Denzel reciting the Absolutely.
Absolutely. I I don't know how many times
I rewatched that scene over and over and
over again. Oh, boy. You know? And then
going back and reading the,
the biography
of of Al Hajj Malik Shabaz,
Himu Allah.
Let me How do you wanna go? You
wanna go next? I don't know. This will
That's it? Okay. Well, that's that's a brief
introduction.
It's kind of funny that that story, the
first time, the very first time I picked
up that book, I was actually
before I was Muslim,
and,
I was getting
I was in the not in the best
situation,
and we cut school that day. Right?
Yeah. And,
we actually, I hid in the library
because we're being chased by some,
people
literally hid in the library and my friends
got arrested.
That's all I hear. And,
and again, at this time, I was a
Muslim, but I went in in the library,
and I I stumbled across the autobiography of
Malcolm X inside that library. I love that.
The very first time I've seen that book.
Yeah. And got to reading it, you know,
and it kinda left an impression in me.
I was like, this is this is I
need I need to get my life together.
Oh, no. Yeah.
So fast forward a few years later,
end up, you know, converting to Islam
and,
being real close to the Senegalese community.
I was able to travel, spend some time
in Senegal.
Fast forward years later, got married
and, here taking care of a family of
of, 5 of us.
Took my shahada
in 1989,
1990.
I remember distinctively it was the summer of
that year,
and excuse me,
I think,
if I remember correctly,
it was sometime
around getting close to Ramadan. So this was
a very new experience for me.
But the family that introduced me to Islam
was a family who
came out of the nation of Islam and
they were worth dinners. They were Sunnis.
Good friend of mine. A dad was an
architect at Case Western Reserve. The Mohammed family,
their son is, aerospace engineer.
And they were pivotal in my growth,
especially
hanging around with the son for the first,
maybe 4 or 5 years observing the family.
And then eventually his son asking me one
day because they told me years later,
they were thinking about how they should approach
me and give me Dawah. So he asked
me to go to church,
which I knew what he was talking about
right is to go to the messages. So,
Marsha Allah,
my experiences were really good.
1st marks I ever went to was on
Detroit.
The man who was given a clip at
that time was a man in Chic Sawade.
And lo and behold, I would find out
10 years later, he would introduce me to
my wife.
So,
Allah bless him and his family.
But Detroit Avenue? That you must have Rasoolullah
where it is now? The other one. Right
next there's a Halal store next to it.
Yes. Okay. So that used to be ICC
at that time, if you're talking about 8990.
Right? It was. Yes. That's right. Yeah. That
was the original site of this homicide of
Cleveland before they purchased the land in the
farm. Marshall. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Marshall. Marshall. I
didn't know that was that location. Right. Right.
Okay. Right. Right. So okay. I'm just like,
you know, there's a there's actually,
a lot of immigrants that go to this
particular mosque. It's like a small little building.
Yes. Right. Right. Yeah. That was it. That's
the first mosque I went to. You're like,
why are we going to church on Friday?
Yes.
I knew what he meant. I I just
smiled when he mentioned it because I said,
yeah. Okay. I know what he's doing. But
I was open. And that time period was
a time period that was really, I think,
intellectually charged, 8990 a city.
Yahya mentioned
the movie Malcolm X was coming out in
1991.
And also the music
at that time, I was listening to socially
conscious hip hop music.
Right? And all of that music The best
guy. Was intellectual. Like, k r s one
was particular rapper that reverberated with me because
he constantly kept me going back and forth
to the library
and researching some of the things he was
rapping about.
So for
me,
Islam represented an intellectual journey.
Right? Which is my shot. For those of
you who heard the last podcast, it's a
very interesting counterpoint to one of the things
coach Kahari Hicks was talking about
about the complete, like, vapidness of
of music nowadays and in particular, type of
degeneracy. Right.
Right. That that wasn't necessarily originally part of
it. It wasn't. Let me just,
you know, be honest, some of that was
there. But at that time when we were
young guys, 1920, 21, 22,
you did have a socially conscious element there.
I mean, it wasn't you didn't have to
look far to find it. Right. And so
I really rejected a lot of the, West
Coast rappers and the East Coast rappers who
were basically talking about, you know, glamorizing materialism.
It was all about intelligence for me.
And so that that that was one of
the things that really,
sparked,
the desire to, you know, become Muslim. And
and also everyone else was doing that. Bookstores
were very prevalent in, especially,
bookstores that dealt a lot with Afro centrism.
That was the big buzzword amongst the African
Americans,
New York, Jersey, Philadelphia,
and even here in Cleveland.
And so I was introduced to a host
of scholars I had never heard of before.
In fact, before my Shahada,
I didn't even really I knew who Malcolm
x was, but that was it. I had
no other knowledge of him other than the
fact that most of us were told he
was an angry man. He was violent. Right.
When I read the autobiography
and watched the documentary, by any means necessary,
brought me to tears.
And I couldn't believe that my family never
talked to me about that.
And so,
it was crystal clear at that point, that
this dean was it. And that was before
you were Muslim when you've seen that doctor
No. It was after after became Muslim. Right.
So my my early journey to Islam was
just filled with a lot of learning. I
befriended
a group of,
immigrants who were Turkish.
And from the outset with these guys, it
was strictly about Dean and knowledge.
That's what I really appreciated about them. That
was the first group. The second group of
guys that I was hanging with, which were
my uncles, I guess we could call them.
They were strictly leftist
political activists
who were professors,
who taught in Ghana,
who actually taught,
in,
other parts of West Africa, mainly Ghana, I
think, under Kwame Nkrumah, right, where they had
many African Americans who were going there as
teachers.
And,
a brother who is now retired, Maxwell Stanford.
I mentioned his name,
an area
dite who I have immense gratitude towards because
he taught me a lot about understanding the
world intellectually,
politically.
And the Turks who kept me found you
know, my foundation in practice in Islam was
a beautiful marriage.
Masha'Allah. And so, I'll never forget those guys,
but it was a good journey. You know?
And so from there, you know, I continued
to practice and and met many brothers. Met
this brother in 94 Right. And a host
of other brothers. With the Turks. With the
Turks. Yes. The Turks. Right? Absolutely. Yeah. Master
Uqbah, which was my home. It's where I
cut my teeth. Teeth. The old Uqba, which
was a house at that time. Right.
And many, many, many beautiful brothers came through
there. I remember when Ramus had hair. Absolutely.
You know?
He's deceased.
He was very active and, brother Esam, who
was the medical technician back then, he may
be
at ICC, but he works with care now.
Right? Many good people, man.
And so I cut my teeth there and
met so many people there. I got married
at Uppa,
my wife and I, and, we have 2
2 beautiful kids. How long have you been
married? 23 years.
Yeah. So one of the one of the
things that,
I guess this is a good segue into
Mhmm.
Which is that,
brother Yahi, you also are married. Right? That's
right. That's correct. And you're, could you mind
telling if if,
you know, if we if we ask what
what is the background cultural background of your,
missus? That's fine. Yes. She's, Senegalese.
Okay. In Senegalese. And actually her,
mother's side are Mauritania, actually. There you go.
And it's, you know, Mauritania, Senegal, all of
these lines were drowned by
some people. Absolutely.
Smoke some people. Smokey smokey cigarette in Paris.
Right? Right. So Basically. But, like, yeah. It's
it's it's it's Other people who are like
the ones that were chasing you before you
were Muslim. Right.
Yeah. Same thing.
So different different time frame. Different different time
frame.
Particularly Mhmm. What I was interested in asking
Mhmm. And, like, what I was interested in
having
a platform to jump off with our conversation
and see where it goes is
knowing from you what it's like
being an African American in this country.
Being somebody that all you know about your
background is servitude and bondage. Right.
All you know about your background is oppression.
Right.
Even to the point where the oppressor took
your names and the names of your people
away from you. That's right. That's right.
And having a nebulous idea that somehow we're
from Africa. That's right. And what are the
statistics of how many, how many of the
slaves you know, were from West Africa from
from the Muslim parts? Percent. 20%.
30? Yeah. Yeah. Let's say, yeah, between 20
30 percent. And some styles may differ on
that. Yeah. And so, like and, like, my
my my understanding is the reason it's not
more than that Right. Right. Is because
sophisticated than the slave masters. They knew where
they're coming from, where they're going. Not like
African America, but like from the dunya to
the ajerah. Right. And they kept organizing
slave revolts Yes. And you couldn't keep them
down. Yes. And so afterward, apparently, like, the
there was actually laws passed in most of
the colonies in the Western Hemisphere that you
bring these people anymore. Right. And and to
add to that, there's a a sister. I
mentioned this before in a, talk over at,
ACC.
So sister, I met years ago. She Yeah.
She was like my my grandmother, my Muslim
grandmother. Yeah. Like, she loved me to death.
She's the only, like, sister that would, like,
literally grab me after you might kiss me
like this.
Beautiful woman.
And she passed on, but,
she once told me, she say, brother, yeah,
yeah. I said, nam. And she said, you
know, my my family's always been Muslim.
I said, really? She said, yes. My family's
always been Muslim.
She says one of my great great grandfathers,
he was,
he was purchased because he knew so many
language, languages.
And he was purchased to teach the slave
master children.
She said, you know, one day that he
was actually,
giving a, he was
caught teaching his own kids the Quran
with a stick in the sand on the
ground, the the the, you know, the abajadas
of the system.
She said, you know, so, of course, the
first time he punished him and kinda let
him go, but still punished.
Of course, he kept doing it because he
knew the importance of education for the family.
He actually chopped off his right hand.
It didn't stop him. It didn't stop him.
My sister told me she he actually thought
it was his left hand with a stick,
and they eventually chopped his left hand off.
Uh-huh.
And here's sister Satara. I never forget her.
I never forget her.
She told me that
he was teaching the Quran with a a
twig within a stick with his toes
to his children in this country.
This is our history. Yeah. And this is
right here in this in in the city,
Cleveland. Yeah.
A lot of people don't know it. I'll
never forget that woman's name.
So now I guess, hopefully, you're understanding what
what I meant by who our forefathers are
in iman in this place. Mhmm.
No.
And
so,
and those are stories that need to be
told. Right.
And,
so I wanted to know for you from
you personally for a number of reasons.
What was it like? What was your journey
like
reconnecting with the Islam of your
of, you know, of your of not just
of our ancestors Right. But particularly those people
who are, you know, your blood relatives. Right.
You know, like, you
rolled in here. You put put your hat
on. I know it's hot outside right now.
We're all sweating. You put your hat on
right now.
This this this brother, if I saw him
in,
I would not know that he, he from
Cleveland.
You know what I mean?
And, like, so, like, they're they're they're they're
relatives. They're blood relatives. And Allah, like, you
know,
one of the that is that we made
you into tribes and nations so you can
know each other is what? So that you
can know who your relatives are so you
can honor them because honoring your kinship bonds
is part of Deen. Absolutely. Absolutely. And so
what is it like
being taken from
not being told these stories? Right. Not about
your Islam, not about the the the the
the the devotion to learning and the devotion
to that which was sacred from your forefathers.
Right. Rather, all you know is that, like,
you know, someone used to call them a
a a particular bad word. Yeah. Of course.
And,
we don't use that word no more. That's
right. You know? That's right.
And from that to, like, seeing this nobility
Right. And now connecting back with it, connecting
back with those. Right. Connecting back with those
people, with those customs. Right. What were those
things that that you
when you,
try and you traveled back and forth to
West Africa how many times?
About 4 times now. About 4 times. The
most recent was what? 2017. Yeah. It's
Yeah. You know how many they could They
go by themselves sometimes even without me. Right.
Yeah. And so your kids are African American,
but they're also African African to their
real African American.
Yeah. So
what are those things that
that when you went to West Africa, you
felt like
this is familiar? Like, this is who we
were from before. You know What are those
things that you didn't know, but you were
like, this is what I needed. Right. And
what are some of those things even like
that that you're like, yo, this is different.
I don't know what I feel about this.
You know?
No. You you you notice you you That's
good. I like that. It's nothing that you
can understand
rationally.
Your soul knows this is home. Allah. Can
can nobody can tell you this is home.
Your soul would know that you're home. The
the smell,
the the the sights you hear, the the
the music in the background, or the Quran
everywhere.
You've been to some places where all night,
all day, that's all you're hearing is Al
Quran,
or some
or some nasheed playing in the background everywhere
you go.
You know, even, like, in the city, not
just
in, the the the Muslim towns, quote, unquote,
the Muslim towns. Right? But it's it's
something that is personally
feel that I it completed me as a
Muslim,
knowing who I am, knowing who I I
come from, knowing that,
you know, this man
who could be a a sheikh looks like
my grandfather. Mhmm.
And and just having that familiarity,
just just just with that alone is enough
to be like, woah. This is
I need to be honest right here and
and do what I'm supposed to do. Yep.
You know? And it and it doesn't have
to be this physical, but that spiritual connection
is there. And it's again, it's something that's
it's it's incomprehensible
to the intellect, but your soul knows.
Like one and we also we discussed this
earlier. 1,
sheikh,
his name was
Bijo. We call him Bijo. And Bijo was
a very spiritual spiritual deep guy.
We would we spend the night talking about
Islam,
the prophet Muhammad Sallallahu Alaihi Salam.
And he was one of those people that
had, like,
like that that bulk, that that tasting. So
if you
not be but affected by being around people
like that. Even if it's a short time,
if if it's 10 minutes, it's gonna be
like a month.
But that's the impression that it had for
me. But not only that, of course, getting
married, having my children from there. And they,
alhamdulillah,
accepted me wholeheartedly as part of their family.
They they welcomed me. They they loved me
even
my wife gets mad because if we have
an issue,
she can't go to them because they they
will always tell her to be quiet. Listen
listen to that man.
Yeah. And and it's it's it's an Yeah.
I should've got married in Senegal.
How how did you get exposed? Because you
guys are both born and raised in Cleveland.
Right. Yeah. Right? Right. How did you get
exposed to the Middle East community? Well, it's
it's a it's a it's a couple of
different paths. The one one brother here in,
Cleveland,
his name was Omar Juth. Another brother named
Muhtar Mohammed Muhtarakha.
They came from, New York City, and it
was part of the first,
Senegalese community that established a community there for
the the the the the the the Sufi
group, the the Muritz of Palestine Bamba.
Established that city, that group there in in
Brooklyn, New York back in the mid to
early eighties. And the sheikh Ahmed Gubamba, by
the way, I I wanna, as we get
go on, I wanna ask you more about
him. But I'll tell you for for me,
one the first exposure I had
was that,
that there's a picture,
of him.
And
in the tradition of the,
he's his his face is covered. His face
is covered always, you know. Always. And, I
just would ask, I said, who's the sheikh?
I see his picture everywhere, you know. And
they're like, that's Sheikh Ahmedu Bamba. Who is
he? Who's a great Wale of Allah. Right.
Right. Yeah. It's a deep story. I mean,
I can
I can go with that or you're going
to go with the, let's go with everything?
Everything. Let's go with the flow. I'm trying
to, bro, that would be jumping with
I just wanna say
picking up along the lines of what Sidi
Yahia was talking about in his journey.
I think it's important for us to understand.
And for me, at Hajj Manuk or Shabbos
has a lot of weight. Mhmm. Because I
I I come in, like I said earlier,
both, you know, with the Turks but also
heavy political science
was my journey in. And so studying Malcolm
x's life,
we see what * Malik was doing post
nation Right.
Which is really the sophisticated Malcolm in my
opinion. Right. When he went over to Africa
the year before he was murdered Right. This
is exactly what he was trying to do.
Right. Right? That's right. With the organization, the
organization of afro american unity Right. And tying
it to that tradition of West Africa. Absolutely.
Right. That's what he was trying to do.
Better bridges. So you guys Right. What what
you're doing was what he was hoping for.
Right. You know? And this was this is
important for us, I think. Right. Right. Because
this is part of what he was trying
to get the African Americans to do, to
realize you have dignity. Right. Right. I think
in this whole space that we're dealing with
now with this situation with in the in
the light of, George Floyd
is I'm I'm a little disturbed that
we're treating the black community as some little,
you know,
stepchild over here in the corner that needs
to be patted and groomed. Right. It's okay
by everyone, by by the entire community of
the Ooma.
And I like for people to know, you
we all got skin in this game. We're
talking about this earlier. Okay?
Because I remember
before all of this, September 11th,
I would say from 2001
probably to 2008 or 9, we were in
an apologetic state. Every
lecture on c span, talks given at the
Masanjit,
was about how do we protect the immigrant
community. We're all not
jihadists.
Right? So the African American brothers, we came
to that rescue. Right.
Right? A lot of us were with care,
you know, and other organizations trying to help
to make sure that the immigrants were protected,
that there was dignity there, that they wouldn't
be harmed.
So,
you know, African Americans are not like everybody's
poor. Right. Just wanna make sure we know
that. A lot of us are professionals. Mhmm.
Sidi Yahia and myself both,
and lots of other people that I could
name a host of. Right. A lot of
us live in nice neighborhoods.
Right. And,
to be honest, prior to 1965
and really after that, the African American community
was
was well known presence Islamic in the United
States.
So the issue of dignity here is important.
I think I just wanna make sure we
put that out there.
And also the fact that what city Yahya
did was in the in the spirit of
one of our great leaders. Absolutely. El Hajj
Malik.
And and and, you know, like to maybe
try to tie in,
threads together. Right?
He was
assassinated
and he's our shahid as as Muslims in
America. Right. You know, he's the flag of
shahada in this country.
No.
And,
that opposition was facilitated
by people who didn't like to hear what
he had to say. Absolutely.
Sheikh Ahmed Doumba, he had he he for
him, life was easy. Right? Nobody gave him
any trouble. Right? Mhmm.
He was Medina. The same same thing. You
know? Speaking truth. Was it who who who
was it who was it? Who gave him
a hard time? Was it the was it
the same people or it's different people? Same
same people. It's the same same same social
structure. Right.
The 2 bubble. Absolutely. Well, same social structure.
Yeah.
Literally
taken from his family. Yep.
A lot of people got killed as a
result of that. A lot of some of
the other unfortunate chiefs were jealous of the
community too.
Burn their houses,
refused to, you know, had embargo, so to
speak.
And eventually, long story short, he's exiled to
Gabon for 7 years. In the midst Gabon
is like, you know, people who are not
like Right. People who are not geographically
apt. Right. They might be like, oh, look,
it's just the Africa.
Right? How far is Gabon? So he's he's
dropped in the middle of a jungle in
Gabon Yeah. Like, with nothing.
Just nothing. Just just his he had his
pen. He had a he had a they
gave him a little stipend. Right? They gave
him a little sidend. He's a prisoner
and and and and paper.
And this is how he survived.
Literally
1,000 and 1,000 and 1,000 lined up the
sites.
7 and a half tons worth of writings
and manuscripts
an Arabic language that he brought back with
them from that for that journey. Just just
from their first trip.
Just from their first trip.
They say, you know, 7 You mentioned that
camels. But Uh-huh.
Brought me these 2 books of the
as a gift.
This is one of the. It's all in.
It's all in it's all in meter. Uh-huh.
It's not easy to write. No. And it's
beautiful. Right. Right.
Right. We're gonna have to read from that
a little bit before the podcast is over.
Absolutely. Inshallah. Inshallah. Inshallah.
So this this was part part of the
tradition, you know, that he brought back. But,
you know,
socially, he's
bringing people together.
Socially, he he's trying to create balance where
there's a vacuum created by those French colonial
powers who were fighting to destroy the African
community, the Senegalese community at that time.
So this was a way to, again, give
them a sense of pride of who the
who they were as black people.
And one of his books, the famous book
that the master is named after Masalaqo Janan,
he says, you know, don't think you can't
benefit
from my writings because I'm I'm black man.
That's it's an introduction to Muqaddimah. Wow. And
he says black skin doesn't cause idiocy Wow.
And stupidity. He says that. And he says
after that, you know, the the the greatest
person inside of Allah is those who has
the most the best character. Right? In the
universe.
So and again, it's that's a
we can just be all day just on
just on that topic,
on that share
and that story. But, the tie together with
myself and my family, alhamdulillah, it's it's been
a blessing to be connected with that community
and and and not forgetting who I come
from as far as my my my people
here, you know, and just tying it all
together. And it's just felt like a community
completed me as a human being. You were
saying something about before, before we were when
we were just having coffee before the talk
Uh-huh.
About the extremes
culturally amongst the Muslim community
in America. About how there was a particular
sensibility and then there's another sensibility
that backlash against it and, like Right. Would
you like to elaborate on that?
Specifically about?
About how there was a time in America
where, like, everything western in certain massages and
communities was just
Right. So yeah. What I what I was
referring to, and I've mentioned this before and
this is something kind
of pretty well known, is that extremes breed
extremes. Mhmm. So movements can be reactionary. Mhmm.
And then there can be certain ways that
we feel
where we may have been mistreated
or a certain aspect
may have been misrepresented.
And in order to balance that, we go
to the other extreme.
Right? And I think that's, to some degree,
what happened with a lot of us Muslims,
especially who became Muslim in the nineties. No.
Right. Yes. Muslim in 89, 90, you were
94. Right. That's right. Yep. And myself in
98. Mhmm. And,
Islam at that time
was very anti western.
Everything about being western was considered to be
un Islamic. That's true. Yes. That's true. And
that's where I think a lot of our
struggle comes. It did. Right? Because now we're
trying to
kind of reconcile between our,
our western identity Yes. Being born and raised
here Yep. While trying to adopt something which
is very,
which is very,
I don't wanna say un American, but was
made to seem un American. Right. Yes. Right.
Yeah. Yep. Right. Right.
So, you know, at some point and this
was all pre 911. Mhmm. And then after
911, you did you did fine. Right? Because
in the nineties, again, it was really hard
to hear Islam. I was like, yep. That's
right. You know, we were Muslims.
Islam. That's right. Yep. That's right. You know,
we were Muslim. That's right. We don't follow
the Kufar. Right. And all this stuff. Right?
That's what we got. And then all of
a sudden after 9:11, it was like, you
know, we're Muslim.
We gotta stay together. Right. Stay together. We're
all together. Yeah. We're good. You know, we
we we we're about being together. And so
the narrative changed. Of course. Of course. So
it went on another on the other end
of the pendulum. Absolutely. Right. So you guys
got to experience both ends of that. That's
right. And this maybe could transition into something
I want to ask you both about. Yes.
Yes. Yes. Because specifically with African Americans,
you have the
you know, your identity be of African Americans
being being taken. Yes. And your name is
being changed. Mhmm. You changed your name. Right.
Oh, I did. A lot of brothers don't
change their name legally. Right. Right. Right. They'll
adopt the Muslim name, but they won't necessarily
change their name. Right. That's right. That's right.
You kept your name. I kept my name.
That's true. Right. And these are things that
maybe someone who's born and raised a Muslim
never has to think about. Right. Right. That's
right. I had to think about that as
a convert. Do I wanna keep my name?
Do I wanna change my name? Right. Right.
And do I wanna take a name? Do
I wanna, you know, but not change it
legally? Exactly. That's right. So maybe provide some
insight Right. Into that whole decision process. Just
just for for me, it was a struggle
too. Okay. Because, of course, being around this
brother here and other brothers, it was like,
that would did it. Like, yeah. Yeah. What's
what's going on? Right?
So,
what what kinda gave me solace was again
that trip, the the Senegal. And, speaking with
my future father-in-law at the time,
and I was telling him I'm thinking about,
you know, doing this name change. Because at
that time, I was already
Muslim for maybe 6, 7 years.
And I said maybe I should change it,
you know, officially.
He said, you know, yeah. You know, you
you are who you are. You know, Iman
is here. You know? And long as you
know who you are, you Yep. And this
was this was your father-in-law. Yes. His father.
Yes. Born born, you know, Islam for centuries
centuries centuries, you know. So he told me
this. Yeah. So and that that kind of
okay.
Just be you, but stick to what you're
supposed to do Right. Islamically.
See, that's that's where I'll I'll pass this
to you in a moment, but this is
where that balance eventually Right. You know, eventually,
things will level out.
Right.
Right. There will be a lot of instability.
Yep. Right. But as long as you're steadfast,
eventually, it'll balance out. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Right?
So there was that maybe some hardcore, you
go neck deep. Right. But then,
you know, does that mean you're gonna also
change your name totally? Right. Right. But you
also have to remember that Right. You can't
hate yourself either. No. You can't. Right. Well,
for me for me, again,
the arguments
coming out of
Malcolm X's position.
And I and I keep mentioning him, although
I know those who are her coordination of
Islam, even if some NOI guys are looking
at this, I'm sorry.
Personally, for me personally,
that's the greatest man that ever came out
of that organization.
Alhamdulillah.
Alhamdulillah. The way he articulated the argument was
crystal clear.
You know, our forefathers had their names taken
from them.
And when you read that and you reflect
on it, right,
who we were in Africa being completely stripped
from that. That's right. Marshall, you going back
and connecting with that was beautiful. Right. I
mean, we know Alex Haley didn't change his
name either when he went back and saw
his family. He didn't become a Muslim. Right?
Right. Right. Right. Exactly. By the way by
the way, one of my one of my,
friends I studied with in Mauritania,
Mandinka brother by the name of Kimo. Maybe
I mentioned this last time. Mhmm. He was
actually from Kunta village. Mhmm. I thought I
just mentioned that. Yeah. It's it's Hailey.
So for me,
it it was a little different. I mean,
I was reading stuff that was
historically charged
and it it stirred something in me, right,
at that time. And I said, this is
this is true. I mean, my family didn't
even know who they were, of course. Now
we got DNA test and all that. Right.
It doesn't cost much to do it. Right.
Right. But I mean, then if the argument
was clear, I don't want to wear that
name. Right. You know? And I know that
may mean some things for my family, but
we already had people in my family who
had done it. So I did have some
some great answers that were mostly Yeah. For
sure.
Of which, you know, my my my grandfather's
this big one. We're talking about thirties, forties.
Okay. Right? So these are my grandfather's mom.
Follow-up is how your family reacted. Right. They
didn't they didn't they already knew about this
song. So let's Yeah. Okay. He's doing his
thing. Right. Right. We know we know about
the other guys that were in it. Right.
You know, family stories. Of course. Of course.
Of course. So for me, when I changed
my name, I just wanna make sure this
is clear.
My entire life got better.
When
I became Dawood Mohammed,
everything got better for me intellectually,
spiritually,
and financially. Right. It was it was a
beautiful thing. I I was reflecting this, talking
to my wife about this many times.
Because at one point, I was thinking to
myself, and this was right around post post,
September 11th. Right? I was like, man, what
does this mean? I'm still holding this name.
You know?
And so,
it it was something that, you know, I
wrestled with, but at the end of the
day,
I don't regret it.
You know?
And,
it was a good thing for me and
for my family. But I do understand the
arguments. We went through some of those. I
mean, some brothers were reading Bilal Phillips back
in the day. Right. And there were positions
where, you know,
we shouldn't change our name or the last
name. Some people change their first name, but
they didn't change their last name. And the
last name was really, if you wanna be
technical, where that history of slavery came from.
Right? You were the property of whoever, you
know, Coats,
Johnson. Right?
Williams, Whomever. And so,
for me, the whole name should go. Now
there's differences of opinion, but martial law, there
are many brothers who like doctor Sherman Jackson.
Right. I think he keeps his legal name.
Right?
And many other people,
that do. So
more important at things, we're all Muslim. Right.
You know. But
I I apologize. No problem. So, you know,
I guess,
what I wanted to frame,
was that, like Sheikh Musa was saying, 2
extremes, the pendulum swings hard one way or
the other. Yeah. Right.
To transcend,
to transcend the the chaos. Yes. Right? Yes.
We all know a reasonable person. I don't
know if anyone would wanna disagree with me
on this. A reasonable person would say, look.
You have certain things you pick up from
your upbringing in this country and its culture.
Mhmm. Yep. Knowledge and all the things that
come with it. Right. And there are certain
benefits in
the the kind of the the culture, history,
learning,
modes of thinking and being from Muslim world.
And
that wisdom is a lost property to the
believer wherever he finds it. It's his own
property and right to claim it. Mhmm. So
we now have a chance to transcend that
old,
false dichotomy
and that old, like,
you know, just,
2 extremisms
by taking the best of both sides. Right.
That's right.
So coming back to,
both of your experiences Yeah. In in coming,
going in Africa. Right. Right.
Some of the things we asked about before,
I'd like for you to elaborate further. Right.
Maybe even the idea of, like, if you
met someone who was, like, an African American,
grew up, born, raised here, has some consciousness
about,
about, you know, his history or her history
Mhmm. And, you know, where they're at in
society. Right.
And
you were to describe
to them how going to Africa and connecting
to Africa changed you. Okay. Absolutely. You know,
like, what would you say?
Oh, I'm gonna come and go back a
little bit just to the, the name thing,
just to piggyback off of that. The other
point I wanted to make was that even
though I knew that I wouldn't do the
legal change, I knew all my children would
have the names of the prophet.
We have a Khadija. We have a and
a Fatima.
And that that was good for me. Yep.
I
mean,
yeah. But the it's
something that even doctor Omar,
he met me, alhamdulillah, he said the same
thing. You know, I can't believe you're American.
I told him I'd love to look for
a walk when he came in that last
visit.
And,
he couldn't believe you're okay, almost arguing with
me. Right?
And, so he says, you know yeah. Yeah.
He said, do me a favor. I said,
nam. He says,
make sure you tell your people where they
come from and make sure they tell them
to to go to see where they come
from.
You know? Yeah. I will lie. I'll never
forget that. So
it's it's something for me, and I think
it's it's extremely, extremely important for any Muslim,
especially African American Muslim, to make that journey
once in their life. Yep. Or even even
non Muslims, Anybody. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But but
but because you'll see I mean, I'm gonna
be honest. I mean, I've I've met, you
know,
I wanna be politically correct here like the
white people. Right?
Who go there and change their names. Mustafa,
Salihu,
and
and they're not even Muslim. Right? When they
go and they live there, walk around and
go into the shops and speaking speaking one
of better than the the local people. Because
they get the true one of from the
country. Countryside.
Well, how the the the the language of
the the main tribe of of Senegal. Right?
Well, most Wollof. Yeah. Wollof is a main
one of the language. One of, you can
see there. You got Tukulot or Tukulot language.
The pool is a language they speak Mandinka.
So it's it's a Malay Malayja Lake Jola.
Mhmm. You know, Soze. They all there's a
lot of different languages. Just in that Senegalese
region,
the majority of the people speak, of course,
Wolof and then French.
Wolof is kind of the liquid breakup between
all of them. But, you know, depending upon
where you live, you know, you're gonna speak
the tribe the language of your tribe. Mhmm.
But everybody, again, knows Wolof, understands it, even
if it's not properly spoken. Mhmm. They of
course, now with everything else, they mix it
with French, English,
everything else. You know? Yeah. But
it's it's extremely,
extremely, extremely I can't stress it enough to
go to the the masjid.
See, and and I remember last time I
was reflecting, I've made a post on Facebook.
Like, dude, tell me specifics. Yeah. Because everyone's
gonna be like, okay. Yeah. Africa's good. Yeah.
Check. Like, what is this? This is I'm
getting into it. One of the major crimes
for me is, like, just not knowing who
you are and where you come from. Mhmm.
You go to any inner city here in
in in Cleveland,
unfortunately, you're your head's on the swivel. Right?
Good or bad, right or wrong. It's it's
it's it's it's what it is. Well, you
put you in the middle of the kinda
not so nice near or poor neighborhood, I
would say, like, in the middle of that
car
at night and everybody's black.
But little kids 12 years old are taking
your hand by taking you by the hand
and running to the masjid to pray. I
love it. You don't have to tell them,
miss Tanya makes a lot. They're taking you
and making us a lot, doing doing everything
and coming back. I remember never forget my
little, at the time she was little. She's
a grown woman. I work with kids.
My sister-in-law,
I mean, it's
a, literally literally teaching me how to make
voodoo.
I
love her. She's 12, she's in the water,
and then it's like, you know, you have
the traditional monarchy way, you
you put a little water, you're preserving water,
so that's in the back of your mind
now. So that's something that even my daughter
now to this day, little trickle of water,
making the woo do, she's in the sink
and teaching me how to do it that's
that's Right.
So I mean, this is
that's those experiences,
spending the time, and I mean, again, there's
so many specific details I can go into
because Don't don't go into them. The the
It's a podcast, brother. We It is. We
don't have no, like, 30 second time limit
here. So so I'll give you another example.
I met a sheikh, that one sheikh, a
chef Bijo, he passed
away.
I was in Ajummah
and I spent the night at his house.
When I he's we were discussing again the
history of the prophet salaam, the history of
Shauna Bamba.
And he says, you know, and we're going
over some, some
not I won't say I saw it. Some
of the, the names. Right?
And they're breaking down some of their values.
Mhmm. Right?
And he says, you know,
you know, when he say he tells me
this is in 19 no. It's in 2000.
That was my first trip. He says, Yahya,
you know, there's gonna be another financial crash
that's gonna happen in America. Mhmm. Because the
man's never been to the United States, barely
speaks English. He said there'll be another financial
crash in America.
He says, at that time,
and I think I told you this,
there'll be a black president.
Agreed.
The
light. People that know me
will will will testify to that and to
that man because I heard about him before
I met him, but I never knew that
I would meet him. It just kinda goes
by a lot that I met him.
He said, not only that, he said that
man will have a Muslim name.
In the back of my mind, like, come
on now. You you kinda got too far.
No. I'm not. At that time.
Right. At that time. At that time.
And it it it and and, of course,
you know, years later, as we've seen the
signs of this young Barack Hussein Obama is
coming, you know, looking considering going to office.
I'm like, no. You gotta be kidding
me. It was just a perfect alignment. Right.
And and he I mean and he he
told me that, you know, years later,
and to the point where I went when
I went back, on my my second visit
in
2010, 2011, and he said, I told you.
Yeah. In fact, I told you. I told
you. You see that democratic,
I'm
not I'm not making that up, and that's
something that Laheed I have no reason to
make that up because I couldn't tell that
story without even shaking.
You know? So but just meeting, like, these
these these people that, like, just with the
dean,
it's time to pray. It's it's it's everywhere.
The athan is everywhere.
You know, the time to pray fudger. It's
no excuse not to pray fudger on time
in a match. And you get to choose
between which match did you want. You wanna
go to this match of the day, this
one over here, because it's within walking distance.
Mhmm. It's it's an incredible experience. I got
a question for you, though, because I thought
about this. Why why do you think
because we know along the western coast of
Africa,
there's
several Muslim societies. Right. But everybody always focuses
on synagogues
All the time. You know, we've got we've
got, Ghana. Right. Right? Which is pretty big
Muslim community here too. Right? That's true. Never
ever talked to you about Ghana though. That's
true. Seriously synagogues all the time.
Alex Haley? I don't know. I I think
it's more Senegal is like a like a
hub of of West Africa. It's right there
in the coastal area. It's like a meeting
place for all those countries. Even before they
come here, they Right. Have to make a
stop to Senegal first.
Yeah. I I think that's it. You know,
I it's it's I can't say Aloha Alam.
You know? It ends in your circle. Oh,
no. I understand. Brothers here. I know that,
you know, big,
big brothers here that were, from Ghana Mhmm.
And, you know, Sheikh Masood and Right. Right.
So forth and so on. And then the
brother gets checked, checked, checked, cleaned
checked,
checked, cleaned up. Nigeria. And Nigeria is the
biggest community here in Cleveland. Right. You know?
But, Senegalese is just, again, who I've drawn
affinity to. They accepted me as a
brother. They But I think one difference also
is that, like, Senegal and Gambia are
are pretty predominantly Muslim societies. They are like,
yeah. Ghana.
Yeah. Nigeria. I mean, Nigeria culture is very
has a very rich cultural history with Islam.
But the issue with with Nigeria and with
Ghana Yes. Both of them is the dynamic
is that, and those those are strange,
I think, historically in the sense that Islam
actually reached those people before Christianity. Yes. Yep.
And so what happens is that the coastal
regions in those two countries Right. Like the
Animas population Yes. Will accept Christianity. One can
hope that it was out of some sort
of sincerity for the gospel of Jesus Christ,
but it's quite possible that it was in
order to be politically Absolutely. Expedient and make
it with the with the colonizer. Right. Right.
And so those people get I've heard this
from a lot of people, Nigerians in particular.
Right. Where, like, they won't let you in
the school until you convert to Christianity. That's
all. They won't give you a job till
you convert to Christianity. Mhmm. And so what
happens is you have culture and civilization that's
ancient and an identity that is very deep
in the north. Right. Right. Right. In the
south, you may not have that as much,
but you have the money, the wealth, the
power. Yeah. Right. You know? Yeah. And so
that tension is there. And our our brothers
and sisters in both societies, I think, are
in somewhat of precarious situation. Right. Whereas Right.
In Senegal, Gambia, there
that that danger or that
tension is not really there. Right. And it's
not and it's a culture of resistance too
because they fought
the French historically,
And there was something that they they always
had to contend with. And they knew that
the French
concept was to control the mind.
Not just even the things they wanted your
mind. They wanted you you wanted you to
have French culture.
And they were strictly the the old old
man. You I mean, you you couldn't even
go to certain sessions with, you know, non
assignment clothes. It's impossible. You're talking about in
Sudan? Senegal.
Correct. So this this where that's in, like,
in the seventies. You know? So Right. But
I think probably it may be worth emphasizing
too with that because
when you talk about fighting, you're talking about
not Chitaz. I said resistance. Resistance. I mean,
resistance. Yeah. Yeah. Resistance. Yeah. Resistance. Right. So
for example, I mean, and there's other few,
you know, you you got we have to
you have to say, you know, talk about
We talk about Sheikh Ibrahim Nias, you know,
in in conjunction with Ishan Obama and and
his movement and his mission. You know? So
those those ulama was again, you go to,
by,
by, for example. Big big shuyu,
big huge community. I mean, this Quran is,
like, incredible,
you know. And it is like they didn't
play with Al Quran. It's, like, that the
top was everything for the those people, you
know. And it makes an impression if you're
around them and it's that's all that you're
seeing them do, I mean, how can that
not affect you if you have a someone
with a good heart? I've never seen a
place, to be honest with you, where the
hip's culture is more entrenched than West Africa.
And I've had a feeling this is the
way it was in the Ummah, in the
entire Ummah at one time. I believe it.
But they but they they preserved it when
other people let it go. They have the
the coronavirusiders,
the the ones that won the competition 2,
3 years ago in Senegal. Yeah. Particularly,
Mohammed, I wanna say Mahmoud, Tore Yeah. Was,
from Tuba. And then another sister, she won
4th place. He won 1st. You know? Even
then, those those those competitions
have a lot of, like, artistic element in
them. Yes. That's correct. Of course. But if
you wanna have a person who will get
up and recite from the Janas without making
a mistake, without even flinching. Right. You know?
Absolutely. That's the West Africans will do that.
Absolutely. Because nobody else has the Himna to
put in that much much, effort into into
the book of Allah Ta'ala. And it's very
interesting, like BBC and stuff like that. Right.
They hate on them for the Qutab, the
the Quran schools. Yeah. And, but I'm telling
you, any place where the where the is
good,
the Islam is gonna be good. Absolutely. Yeah.
That's a good point. I mean, because
I know we talk about Africa. We're just
talking about this earlier. Yes.
To give Africa,
particularly West Africa, it's due in the broader
scope of Islamic civilization. Civilization. Okay. I think
it's still missing. Right. Right? That's true. That's
true. And I would really like to see
at some point the academic,
society start to really bring that more to
the fore. Mhmm. But to push back against
that,
having studied in Madrasah, I can tell you
in in in Pakistan,
every person I told I studied in Mauritania,
it was instant respect.
In fact, the madrasa's Ibn Abbas, doctor Amjad,
was a old school tabli. He came and
made in America. And it's really funny, actually.
You know?
From Seattle,
he was the emir of in Seattle. Have
mercy on him. And he literally the guy
would go he would, like, go on Jamat
in between chemotherapy.
Oh, no. No. No. No. No. No. He
was joking at us or, like, make you
know, like, we're delusional at first. He's, like,
you know, he'd come back from Jamat. I
mean, I didn't see you for a while,
Khaled Sab. Where you because I was on
Jamat. Make Dua, you know, the cancer hurts
a little bit, but make Dua, we could
still go out in the path of Allah.
So he told me this. He said that
he said that doctor Amjad, who was the
the son of the first,
president of Pakistan. Okay. His father, Chaudhry, Muhammad
Ali. Uh-huh. And, he he kinda, like, left
the whole pro British side and
took up Din. Yes. You know?
He said that when he came on,
Jamaat to America,
he was saying, like,
build your masjid. You know, they said, oh,
here we bought this property. We wanna build
a masjid here one day. He said, okay.
Do this. Do that. You have to have
a place. Tell me where's the students gonna
live? Where are the gonna live? Where's the
gonna be? Where is this? And they're like,
what are you are you joking? We don't
even have 5 daily prayers. What are you
talking about, madares? And I was like, you
know? Yeah. And he's like he's like he's
like, no. You have to do all of
that if you guys want your son to
survive. And now, Michelle, we have darul Qasim.
Yeah. We have Darul Salaam. We have the
Daruloom in New York. We have a Qalam,
and we have all these different institutions that
are that are doing this work. Right? Yeah.
So he he actually actually his that he
oversees keep him in in in good health
and give him long life. And he even
though he's he's they're from the same cast
as us. They're not only Punjabis,
but
from the same cast. He refuses to speak
to me. Once he knows you know Arabic,
he will refuse to speak to you in
any other language. Oh, no. Right? So he
he he actually, in his mother Sabine Abbas
and mother Aisha that my wife graduated from
Okay. They actually brought Mauritania over.
Oh, no. In order to do what? Wow.
In order to implement their hips methodology.
Oh, no. Even though Pakistan is a a
market as a hub in the world for
the hips of Quran. Right. Most of the
the the the the teachers in America or
in the Haram and Shafi'i. And a lot
of places in the world, they actually are
from the Indian subcontinent. That's right. Right. But
even him, he was like, so you know
the pushback they they get props. Not that
people don't know or don't recognize. Not that
the public they don't. Right. Right. Right. But,
like, the the People who know. Yeah. Yeah.
Some of the people who know. I guess
I'm talking about more mainstream
because, you know, the the broader audience
who typically sees Islam, you know, and it
in its glorious past typically, is gonna associate
it with Mhmm. The Arabian world, Right. Persia
Of course. And then, of course, North Africa
and Europe. Right. But very rarely do we
hear about I think on the ground, you're
right, amongst the real Right. Intelligency of the
Muslim, you know, community and the scholars. But
SubhanAllah. You know, more more inshallah, you know
inshallah. We don't know. We'll see in another
decade or so. Inshallah. You know, a lot
of the traditions are wrestling with things Right.
In general.
So so I have a question actually,
for, both of you because you've also been
to, the West African nations? I haven't. I
haven't been there. No. I haven't. Yeah.
Well, then maybe you could, help me with
this because I think this topic comes up
Mhmm. With a lot of African Americans. Yep.
And,
some people have an interest, some people don't.
Mhmm. But for those who do have an
interest, how difficult is it,
to to go and visit and to, you
know, kinda get connected and to kinda, like,
learn a little bit? Because I think most
people
that are not,
very privy to Mhmm. International travel. Right? They
they hear that and they're immediately, like, oh,
it costs way too much. And I and
I I wanna know about this too. And
I know we're gonna have some people who
are listening to like, I don't need no
foreign Islam. Right. I'm from here. Of course.
Of course. Of course. You know what? You
enjoy yourself. Right.
I'm going.
Right. Right. Right. I'm going. Yeah. But but
there could be black folks who watch that
aren't Muslim that are still interested in this.
And just in general, I think there are
gonna be some people who are interested. I
know I am. Right. I just I already
said, I'm very interested in everything that you've
been talking about, I've been listening to because
I think about a lot of these things
too. But,
yeah, like It's best to,
if you
are connected or can get affiliated with with
a community here, somewhere in the states. Because
you don't wanna go just like anywhere else,
you don't wanna be a total stranger. You
wanna have a connection that someone you trust.
Right. And then and that that's has family
back home or is willing to travel with
you
and and take you to kind of see
the real on the ground and not just
the touristic
type spots. I mean, of course, you all
want to go to Goree. You want to
see the at least in Senegal, they have
the Renaissance
monument. I mean, okay.
But you wanna see how the people live
and be with the people. Goree Goree Island
is the island where
That's where the that's the last one is
of one of the slave houses.
It's basically a house. People actually lived white
people actually lived up top.
The slaves were kept in the bottom. I
did the whole tour a couple of times,
but
a place where they kept the women, a
place where they kept the virgin girls, a
place where they kept the children, a place
where they punished the slaves. You can't even
stand up. It's, like, about this tall. You
have to sit in a den like this.
And the rooms where they kept all the
men. And and it's like you have a
I don't know how many hundreds of men
cramped into one room. It's so tight you
can't even sit down.
Right? And then, of course,
you know, in between all that, it's the
door of no return. They call it the
door of no return. Right? So you go
to that door, that's it, Kalash, you're you're
gone.
Even
they said the sharks used to be circling
around the areas, heavy populated with sharks at
that time. And again, that was, you know,
subhanallah. I mean, that's that's the history, but
gory
but besides that, it's a beautiful, beautiful island.
Very beautiful island. The masjid there on top
of the ocean overlooking the Atlantic is is
something that's you have to witness and see.
Go back. Go back inshallah. Go go back
and then inshallah
walk through the door with the idun of
the prophet
instead of going as a slave. Go as
a a a an opener of hearts inshallah.
I mean I mean Fear yourself of that
fear yourself of that blight, you know? Know?
I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean,
I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean
And is it is it expensive,
for people who might be watching and for
myself? No.
Like anything else, you you have to, it
depends on the travel season. You know, certain
seasons, the summertime is, you know, prices go
up and anything else.
The fall,
early winter prices go down. Of course, amount
of, quote, unquote, holidays, the prices go back
up again. But, I mean, it it really
depends on the the airline, of course.
If you can get a group ticket, it's
even better. My first trip, I've spent, like,
$800, I think. But I can stay 30
days. I'm not sure what. But, again,
last year, it was almost 2,000.
Right? So your travels through YAA Travel Agency.
Right? Oh, no. They definitely got connections.
So one of the things, one of the
things I wanna see personally, I know Imam
Dawood Walid, he'd mentioned about,
you know, a trip to Senegal, a trip
to,
to Gambia, a trip to different parts of
West Africa. And when he had asked if
I was interested, I said I'm interested, but
I just wanna buy one way ticket.
Oh, okay. You know, one of the things
that that really is, like, first on my
to do list, my checklist Yes. Is that,
you know, just like the companions, they
started cities. The prophet, Madinah, he he was
the one who inaugurated madina. Right. You know,
before that, it was a scattered settlement. Exactly.
He made it into a city. Right. Right.
And then after the companions, they they they
carried this tradition that they were the ones
who made basra. They're the ones
tradition that they were the ones who made
Basra, they're the ones who made Kufa. Right.
Kufa then will, you know, evolve into Baghdad.
Right. Right. And then,
they made Fustat, which will evolve into the
the the medieval city of Cairo. Mhmm. They
made,
Tehran, which is the original metropolis of, of,
of
of
Tunisia, the modern nation state of Tunisia.
And then afterward, like, you know,
the great grandson of Seydel Hasid, the grandson
of the prophet,
you know, he made fast into a city.
Right? Yusuf bin Tashifin
made maracas into a city, you know, such
a Mubarak city
for those who are looking for the Barakah
and for those looking for something else.
But at any rate, you know,
but but it is if you're if you're
not completely blind, you cannot avoid the Barakah.
It's there. Right. You know? Right.
The really beautiful thing about about Senegal is
Madinah Baye, the the in the city of
Tuba. Right. The Mashaikh started these cities from
nothing. Absolutely. And it's an entire city built
from the ground up That's right. On
and on Muhammad
the love of Allah and the love of
the prophet.
And doctor Omer, like, you know, I heard
him mention so many times the beauty of
of Duba. Mhmm. Right? Who made Douba? Right.
What is the story about it? Right. What
will you find over there? How does it
compare to other cities in in in Africa?
You know, like, tell me tell me about
Tuba.
Tuba is is I mean, you don't wanna
kinda people think you're kind of overgrandizing
or what have you, but it's something Just
say the hopkin. Don't don't worry about whether
people believe or not. You would not be
disappointed.
That's one of the first places you go
and you feel like, okay, I can just
because I can just go right now. If
it's my time, it's a lot of people.
I'm happy with that.
You know? Yeah. That's that's how I feel,
you know,
being with the shayuk,
you feel the the blessings of,
the the the duas of of those sheiks
all day with the Quran,
all days that the La ilaha illallah,
the the the masjid. And, of course, every
property pretty much has their own separate masjid
with the shayuk, but the the granite masjid
of tuba is something that's you would think
is straight out of
ancient medieval
times or some great
civilization
1000 years ago for example. Well, these types
of these types of joints, I think of
them as, like, you know how there's, like,
a main campus? Right. There's a branch cap
these are all, like, branch capits of Medina
type places. Exactly. It's incredible. Yeah. That's the
feeling you get. Because the the sheikh, I
mean, people literally and even building that place,
the the sweat, the blood, the tears, everything
it took to make that happen at that
time. I mean, you you can imagine Who
was the founder of Tuba? Sheikh Hamdaba. Same
Sheikh Hamdaba. Same Sheikh Hamdaba. Same Sheikh Hamdaba.
Did he did he have, like, a king
backed him or No king backed him.
Was there a city there from before? No
city there before. It was straight. Did he
get some ditty? It was straight.
Signed straight for the stimulus. It was,
jungle. I mean, it's and I mean, it's
incredible that that place literally came from nothing.
Right. Literally came from nothing. What is it?
Is it is it is it a dirty
city? Is it tell me about it. It's
the biggest it's the largest well, the 2nd
largest city in in Senegal right now.
You will go there, like, literally, you can't
walk on the premises of the Masjid without
shoes. You have to take your shoes off
outside of the mosque.
All marble.
Marbles everywhere, you know, so it could be
200 degrees.
You know, your feet's nice and cool.
It's incredible. The library,
one of the founders of the library there,
commanding just the books
of the sheikh,
his sons,
his children.
1 of the, grants of the shadow bomber,
I was with them, Sheikh Abdul Beki,
he told me, he said our our family
tradition is the right tafsir.
Right? That's the family tradition.
Right? So you can see the difference of
family members with duans
of qasites,
duans or books of, tafsir of Quran or
their own personal Qur'ans they wrote themselves.
You know, and that's the the tradition. They
used to write Qur'ans
and dedicate
it for well, of course, to Allah but
they write Quran and dedicate it to their
their grandfather as Hadiya, as a gift,
you know, which is incredible. You know? Because
this is another thing that I guess
we should remember, you know? While people are,
you know, getting paid by
getting paid by, executives that don't give a
damn about
African Americans, to portray African American culture in
this country as materialism and as degrading to
women
and as crime and drug use and all
this other nonsense.
You know, the true if you look at
the the the true legacy of West Africa,
it's like learning the best library at some
point in the history of Islam and the
history of the world. The best libraries in
the world, the most complete libraries in the
world are where? Timbuktu.
They're in places all through West Africa where
kings used to compete with each other. You
know, the royal princesses, you know? Right. They
weren't no,
you know, there weren't no damaged goods. Right.
You know, materialistic,
narcissistic, like taking selfies of themselves and fawning
them. No. What was their matter they would
ask for is, like, books. That's it. I
need copies of this, I need copies of
that. And it would be expensive. It would
be just as much as Kim Kardashian spends
on
whatever the * she spent money on or,
you know, those who are like her, wanna
be like her. Absolutely. But it would be
on what? It would be on tafsir, the
Quran, it would be on He would send
people to push the Muslims to go travel
to Egypt to to get the, you know,
different tafsiras and things like that. Yeah. Send
people to Lebanon, for example. Yeah. They get
books. It's incredible. And people, of course, know
And you're talking about today. You're not talking
about No. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Today, well, and
back then too. Yeah. You know, it's a
big deal. It's all about, you know, knowledge,
and learning, and being close to Allah. And
you will meet,
like, kids going into spiritual retreat. You know?
It's it's like, it's something that's just beyond
comprehension.
You have to kind of see it to
believe it. And what are the marketplaces like?
Books and
food and books. It's incredible.
No, it's clean. Is there everything you need?
If you're trying to be hustling, you rip
you off? No, no, no, no. Not at
all. Not at all. It's against the law.
You can't play music
in that place. You can't even play music.
You can't play music and you have signs,
you know. No music allowed.
Yeah. Imam Dawood, he actually told me about
that. He said that if a person of
value comes and visits
and they say that I like this place,
literally the Masha'i will give them, like, you
know, you know how like we we have
recruiters that will recruit people who know how
to code or people who know how to
play ball or anything? That's right. If you
have ill and you're serious, you wanna move
there, the Moshayef will actually give you an
allotment of land. They say this is plot
number whatever off the street. Upon a long
time. Set yourself up right now. This is
what we need. This is all the time.
Happens all the time.
Wow.
No. I'm taking notes. Happens all the time.
Yeah. I'm taking notes. Yeah. But the the
the the the the writing was something at
least that attracted me. Because even with this
style, he would take, for example, like, an
acrostic, a poem and make, like, an acrostic
version of it. So he would take, like,
Laila Hilal Muhammad
and
you can read it vertically down the page
and then rhyming
all the letters and praising the prophet, praising
the Allah, reciting the attributes of Allah in
in in in
the in the in the kosida, in the
writings. For example,
And that's just the books on Salawat. Like,
for example, one of the books you got
right here is this Yeah. The Nour Darin.
Nour Darin.
Yeah. Right. So that one is like a
it's a salawat using all the names of
the prophets. Right?
Starting with the hamza
and he was gold hamza.
Hamza but yeah.
And and literally listening to all the names
and doing salawats appraising the prophet from every
single name over 700 names of the prophet,
for example.
You know? So this is just one one
manuscript. So it's it's many many writings and
many things you can discover and find. The
best thing is just to be connected and
just go and see for yourself. No matter
no what I say, no matter what I
do, I can talk to them blue in
the face.
People need to go and see these places.
Has there been anyone that's taken a shot
out of there? Absolutely. A good friend of
mine, from Paris, his mom is,
Congolese, and his father was French. He told
me he went and took a shot out
of there. Yes she got married from
the left so it can happen absolutely
absolutely absolutely absolutely
you know what's really amazing too is that
whole journey began Yeah. With you hiding out
Right.
In the library. With with lights. Yeah. Reading
Hajji Malik's. Right. That's what I'm saying. Right.
See, like Yeah.
A reminder about how Allah is the one
who guides. Yes.
If Allah wants good for you, then no
one can
withhold that. That's right. During that time, to
add to your point, during that someone asked
me, he said, Yahi, I see you're reading
a lot of books on Islam. What's what's
that about? You you wanna be Muslim?
I was like,
I don't know. I I like Islam, but
I don't I can't even see myself as
Muslim.
And then a week later, I'm taking my
shahada.
That's why I heard my mask, you know.
Let me ask you a question regarding this.
I never asked you this
before. You hear a lot of people who
take the Shahad, like some of us converts.
Yes. Some people will say they were just
at a at a crossroads. They were not
very happy as Christians.
I know for me,
I wasn't dissatisfied with being a Christian.
But there was something inside of me
that didn't resist when
Youssef asked me
to go to church with him, which was
the mosque. Right. Absolutely. In which I knew
what he was doing.
There was something that Jesus said, I don't
know about that. Right. It was smooth, man.
Right. Almost like I didn't have a choice
to resist. Exactly. Yet
I wasn't trying to push back. Right. So
I'm saying, were you dissatisfied all in Christianity?
I wanted
something deeper. Okay.
And I had something inwardly was telling me
there's something deeper out here. Right. When you
go, unfortunately,
to the
church and you ask questions,
the trinity, of course, they they, of course,
as we know, they can't answer those questions.
They they still that's a issue they can't
deal with. But I mean, was it was
it like, you just like these this this
Christianity is not No. I wasn't
for me. I I never forget. I read
an article in one magazine. It was called
Focus Magazine. Yep. I think it was a
Yep. I'll shoot of like Ebony or something
like that.
In that magazine, it had an article with
Wesley Snipes. Yep. And interestingly enough, he made
a comment. He says, I want to,
he said, if somebody asks you what's your
religion, he says, I follow the religion of
the prophets. Right. You know, I follow the
religion
that Esa alayhi salam or Jesus practiced at
this time. I followed the religion of Musa
alayhi salam, you know, for example. So that
that kind of triggers something. And I read
going back to the He was he was
not Musa and Esa, was he? No. He
wasn't saying that. No. No. No. He was
No.
No. No. It was Jesus. Moses. Yeah. But
some people say he he was. He became
Muslim. Yeah. Some people say that.
So reading that article and then, of course,
going back He's not, and you're listening to
our podcast. What are you waiting for? That's
right.
So so years later, when I reading
going back and revisiting the biography before I
was Muslim, I made a connection when Yeah.
The Hajj Malik said that comment at the,
the the, the Kaaba. So it's like, oh,
this is this is what he's talking about.
You know?
So I just made a connection. I said,
hey. This is who this. You know there's
a hadith
person who followed,
one of the
revealed divinely revealed religions, like Christianity, Judaism, etcetera.
And then afterward, accepts Islam with the intention
of this is how I'm gonna this is
how I'm gonna up my Christianity. This is
how I'm gonna up my Judaism.
That this is the deen of
the sun. That person will receive their reward
than,
double because of it's because of their sincerity
that they're doing it. Another thing, Masha'allah, you
were talking talking about the,
the, refuge
from being chased. Yeah. This is actually a
tradition in in Madaris in the east and
in the west. Even in Mauritania.
That, and it's something very reminiscent of,
the the
the law of the Torah.
Which is that if a criminal
flees,
and then seeks refuge in another place,
and takes up the path of righteousness,
that you don't give them up to the
authorities when they come looking for them. And
for whatever straight reason, we have that
tradition. Like in in Madrasa, in
in Mauritania, and in, in,
Pakistan, there'll be peep there'll be people you're
like,
interesting. This guy just doesn't strike me as
the type of person who's, like, trying
learn fake. You know what I mean? And
those caps will lay low, and they're annoying.
They're really annoying to deal with. They don't
pray right. They don't pay attention to class.
They just, you know, they're just irritating people.
And, like, you see them, some of them
will be lying low. And it's literally people
have told me, Bahamza, you know so and
so? He killed a man in, like,
and he's just here, you know, just to
hide out.
And that same that same person, what will
happen one day, they'll sit, you know, in
the bayan of the and,
like, the the rock cracks, and they will
sob uncontrollably.
And then you'll see they are the most
annoying disciple of the sheikh, and in you
know, they're the most goody 2 shoes. And
if you say anything or out of line,
they're gonna, like, be the one who's gonna,
like, tryna be all holier than thou upon
you and everything. You know, like, because they
they they when they fall, they fall hard,
you know. Yeah. That's right. And like That's
right.
You know, like, that's one of the the
car our mashaikh taught us, you know,
that there's no refuge
and there's no safety from Allah except for
in him. That's right. Yeah. Masha'Allah, you you
you ran and Allah took you into his
protection. Oh,
a pleasure. I mean, that was a great
time. For light. Absolutely.
That would myself,
we haven't really had a chance to do
that. Passing it. Yes. Yeah. So it's nice
to be able to sit with the brothers.
Yeah. Absolutely. Inside. Right. Absolutely.
Now I wanna I wanna thank, Sheikh Musa
too because he took a lot of patience
with me.
And,
our Saraf and, Nahul class, especially with the
Saraf, I had nightmares
going over those bird patterns, but alhamdulillah, you
know, it's Saraf up, man? Yeah. Right. You
got some benefit right now, Insha'Allah.
I mean That's what that's what you know,
and and the thing is you took Sarf,
so you know how hard it would have
been to write something like this. Right. Right.
Just to be able to write one line
like this. And this is like a whole
whole book, like how hard it would have
been, you know. That's why I can appreciate
it.
And to crank them out like this. Like
this is incredible.
7 and a half tons of Most people
most people that are Arabs.
Right.
It's not possible. No.
Some uncles start getting they they literally start
getting agitated in the message. Like, brother, we
don't wanna talk about that one. Right. Like,
he's like, okay. Mhmm. Okay. We already know
Arabic. Right? Yeah. Yeah. I don't I don't
need it, like, whatever. As us as English
speakers. Yes. Wait. Arabic.
Right? Yeah. Yeah. I don't I don't need
to, like, whatever. As us as English speakers
Yes. We care less about English grammar. Right.
It's like, man, I just it's just like
this
because Yeah. We don't care about knowing why.
Right. Right? But when it comes to No.
No. I think that's different. I think most
native speakers of English have somewhat of a
grasp of English grammar. Arabic is like
you know, because English is English doesn't have
grammar. Right? English is is is
has syntactic rigidity because of the absence of
of rules. Right? Whereas Arabic is much more
fluid than that. Right.
You know, and, like, to actually speak it
properly is Yes, sir. You have to know
grammar. You gotta
It's like it's an exercise of harming your
self esteem. Right. Yeah. Right. You know, to
get to dip your toes into that pool.
Right. You know? Right. Yeah.
You were actually using fiqh and aqaba as
part of that. Well We were Right. At
the end. Yeah. Towards, you know, as we
progress. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, he had a
recent level where he was able to read
a fishelek or Arabic text Right. And translate
it. Right. So why are we gonna continue
reading like Yeah.
Right.
Right. Right. Right. So I'm not sure.
That's nice here. Yes. And,
also,
receive the light Mhmm. Who
who who explained very beautifully what our creed
was and what I mean. Yeah. I mean,
I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean,
I mean, Right. Struggle to sell. Is it
You know which? Another. Yep. You mentioned
You know? Mhmm. If one of our, you
know, for, one of our
from and one of our from West Africa
and from China and from all the different
parts of the world, if either any random
2 of them were dropped onto an island,
you know,
they would instantly
know one another. That's okay. And it's the
barakah of this Mubarak Quran that we mentioned
that is preserved in those places. And once
it's not preserved anymore, the Umoa fractured. Mhmm.
It's the barakah of this Mubarak that we
have that we don't let anyone touch.
And if we didn't have it, you'll see
that wherever it's gone, you'll see the ummah
start to fracture. It's the baraka of this
Mubaraka of this Mubaraka
of which is, you know, what bring us
together. Mhmm. You know,
you know, whatever,
you know, African American, Filipino, or other, you
know,
You gotta struggle to know. Yeah. Yeah. And
not just to know, but to know each
other too. That's right. You know, and that
people get to know each other better. Yes.
We can appreciate each other and where we
come from. Absolutely. We support it. It'll be
easy to sit with each other. That's true.
You wanna sit with each other. Right. You'll
want to care for each other. Absolutely. You
wanna look out for each other. That's true.
And ultimately, that's what brotherhood is. I mean,
This is this time it's the the dua
to you alone. Oh, Allah, the one who
has created everything in existence, the things that
we know and the things that we don't
know. Oh, Allah, we pray that you protect
us
and you guide us and you never let
us go astray. Oh, Allah, we pray to
you and we return to you in all
situations. We pray to you that we are
grateful and we are appreciative of this faith
that you have given us. You have taken
us from some of the darkest places.
You have taken us from not knowing in
ignorance to knowing who you are.
Realizing about your
oneness and knowing who your beloved prophet
is.
Oh, Allah, we pray that we increase that
knowledge. We pray that we are a source
of spreading that knowledge. Amen. And we pray
that every single person on the face of
the earth can also have that knowledge. Amen.
Oh, love. We pray that you protect our
families and our communities. Amen. The entire
live in this life that we were supposed
to as brothers,
as people who see virtue
and not those things which are trivial and
and and and and see
the things which are actually valuable, which is
your consciousness,
which is your,
which is your knowledge, which is knowing you,
oh, Allah, and to have honor in your
eyes, oh, Allah. Amen. Oh, Allah, we pray
that we have purpose in our life. Amen.
That we live our lives with purpose, and
that we sacrifice for your sake, oh, Allah.
We pray that we always
have this purpose in our life and it
motivates us to do the right thing. Amen.
Oh, Allah, we pray that we don't allow
these differences to separate us and fight us
Amen. And make us hate each other. Amen.
Father, we pray that these differences that exist
in our life Amen. Actually
allow us to appreciate one another and appreciate
the beauty in one another. Oh, lord. Oh,
lord. We pray that we can live in
this life as brothers. Okay. So that we
can live in here after as brothers.