Fatima Barkatulla – Yalla Show – Elder Imran discussion with ‘Women in Da’wah’ April 2020
AI: Summary ©
The speakers emphasize the importance of finding a balance between studying and family life, creating environments that support women's interests and building confidence and knowledge to pursue long term study. They stress the need for a message of Islam to encourage women to pursue their dreams and building a love for their partner's learning and teaching. The success of a woman named Alhuda is highlighted as a positive example of women needing more time and effort to develop knowledge, and the speakers also emphasize the need for individuals to be seen as "our" and not just "our." They emphasize the importance of studying women in public settings and avoiding Hoover alcoholism, and highlight the need for individuals to be aware of their partners' needs and avoid Hoover alcoholism.
AI: Summary ©
How are you doing? How is London?
in London?
It's a very sunny day today in London, but everyone is still observing the lockdown.
How is it in Nigeria? Which city
okay.
Actually here the lockdown has been lifted. So people are going to
really
looking forward to that.
inshallah. So my view is this is the 11th episode of the show Valentine series. And together with us today is Fatima
from London,
she is
instruct the host the TV host of the don't feed podcast. She studied classical Arabic, Arabic, classical Arabic and Islamic sciences in Egypt and also in Ibrahim College in London and Al Salaam,
seminary Sharla and she's a mother of four kids that Allah Subhana Allah bless them.
So
I knew you i think i think i knew this know last year that just the end of last year too.
But I knew your father, I think about a couple of years ago. And so I used to see him on Islam channel.
He used to come on Islamic key question and answers to all they do. So anytime I watch the talks, he talks in a very light in a slow manner and you'll hear everything he says. So I used to like it when he comes on.
So on your on your podcast with Dr. heifer Yunus, where you realize your dad is a must.
I was like okay, Mashallah.
And then the next I think, after two days, I was watching the program again and then I led martial Alliance, Mufti barkatullah today, and then I said, Wait,
Masha, Allah, Allah, Allah lab reserved.
I mean, this
is nice of you to tell me that because
as you know, we're all kind of distancing ourselves even from family members, right. So
apart from Zoo and stuff like that, we're not really haven't met my dad, actually, for some time. Although he lives. He lives nearby.
Thank you for inviting me
onto this.
I've never been to Nigeria before. So I'm really happy to say Salaam to my brothers and sisters in Nigeria. And
I hope one day I will get a chance to visit because I've heard so many great things about Nigeria and Nigerian people so
want to visit London? Because due to social media today, I've gotten to connect with a lot of the brothers in London and I'm like telling them inshallah inshallah. So I'm considering maybe a master's degree in London, if that makes it possible.
So, I guess I should pick
what we want to be talking about.
Knowledge, like I want to pick the topic. So in case anyone joins, they know what you're talking about. Okay.
Somebody asked if she MultiMax daughter.
I think mostly men could be too young to be my dad.
Yeah, so
he's, my dad is from India. He studied and they opened, you know, the university and they opened
and he came to the UK in like, the late 70s.
When I was born as well, so
yeah, so handler he's been. He's a Mufti on the Islamic Sharia council yet a judge for these times.
I'm sure that counsel has also worked with a law firm, Islamic Finance, financial institutions. So
Mashallah so the
viewers today like you can see we're talking about seeking knowledge and also women and
fathomable allies like someone who,
who has a very good profile or an educational background. And some really nice places like hybrid Islamic college, Federal Center for Arabic language and kotoba Islamic Institute for Arabic studies in Cairo, Egypt. And then in Bryan college and then also Latin Institute, which I guess is the most recent one.
Sorry, I was gonna say I was at both of them together. So
one of them is his runs on the weekend.
And one of them runs on the weekdays. So
okay, Masha, Allah. And right now?
She is I think I saw your profile, the instructor alcohol alcohol Institute. Yeah. So yes. In tell us courses are coming, because these are coming soon, that haven't been released yet.
Okay. So
you're enjoying your journey through the path of seeking knowledge? Because a lot of people and I will say, especially here in Nigeria, and I don't know about the other parts of the world, because I barely traveled out of this area.
A lot of people when they talk about secret knowledge,
they take the daughters and they give them like, okay, there's a limit which they are going to have. There's a limit of how much knowledge you're going to get online. Okay, they weren't going to go into study, study after study under the best colors, the sisters best investigating them, okay, they just become
perfect. They just memorize the granite. Okay, that's, that's the best decade the most times. So I want you to talk about it. How is this? Is this the way it's meant to be like the boys getting more knowledge or
learn how to level salatu salam and as we hope Allah gives me the wisdom to?
To answer in the best way, you know,
I think look,
I think in some ways, it can be quite understandable. Okay, to be fair to parents, okay. It's kind of understandable that, you know, parents are often concerned, you know, they know that, okay.
seeking knowledge, and actually going into any kind of long term endeavor, takes a lot of effort takes a lot of time. They know that probably a person, especially if they're, if it's a woman needs to delay, maybe getting married, or, you know, people assume that
because they want the best for their daughters
have a family life and they want their daughters to, you know, have that kind of the traditional family life. I think
they're a little bit weary, you know, they're a little bit worried not to kind of
insist on their daughter's really getting immersed into any particular path or career, or even, you know, in terms of seeking knowledge. So, on the one hand, I can understand the concerns of parents, you know, because they're thinking, Okay, I want to prepare my daughter for
the reality of life. Okay, which is that probably she's going to get married, she's going to have children. And that's a very big role. Very important role. And it takes a lot of commitment. takes a lot of emotional attention, doesn't it? Right. So I completely understand that. And traditionally, it's kind of seeing that men, regardless of whether they get married and have children, etc, they could probably easily carry on with their studies with their work outside, outside the home. And that's because islamically even speaking,
the focus of the home is the home is the focus of the mother. Right.
And the father's focus is his responsibility is the home as well But
definitely, traditionally
More kind of outward looking aspect to being a Muslim man. Right. So I just want to kind of caveat, what I'm going to say with that, you know that I do understand that.
But I have the hula, you know, where there's a will there's a way, right? So I believe that
if if a person commits to something and wants to wants to achieve something, and they will, and they do it, and they stick with it long enough,
and they try to have a balanced life, they can achieve that thing, you know. So, in my own example, when I was a teenager, I went to Egypt, right? So my dad took me to Egypt, and I began studying Ben. But a few years into my studies, I got married.
And one of the concerns of my husband was actually the, you know, how is this the fact that you really want to study? How is it going to fit in with family life? Right? So I don't think we should we should shy away from realizing that that is an issue. It's not, it's not like it's a non issue. You know, because sometimes we give, we give girls and women the impression that when they have children, nothing changes when they get married, and changes. And that's, that's not true. That's not true. Everything changes when you have kids, right.
And your priorities change.
Your outlook changes your, your brain, literally a woman's brain changes when she has children. Right. So
I think what happened then was that, you know, I, for me, knowing as a Muslim woman that, you know, my family, my husband, my children, they are my priority, and always bearing that in mind. I continue to study at a pace and in a way that would allow me not to neglect those other duties, right.
slowed down the pace of the study, basically. Definitely, yeah.
I would say, slow down, but also change the mode of study. Right. So for many years, for many years, I was studying more kind of remotely, I would say, right, so I was attending online courses. I had hundreds of lectures. I mean, in those days, YouTube wasn't even that popular, right? So I had like cassettes and CDs, lectures in Arabic and
the Middle East, and whatever I could get my hands on. And I would listen to them.
While I was bringing up my kids, you know, and I would have maybe online tutors, from Egypt.
To continue my Arabic continue continue my,
my studies, right. So in other words, I changed the mode of study, okay, to fit around my family and its needs. And
when it got to a stage where children were a bit older, they were at school.
And it was more possible,
I was able to then go back to an institute and actually go physically and continue my studies that way. So I would say
two things. One is that
I expectation from as women, if we're going to go into studying Islam, or studying something long term has got to be that, you know, it's going to be a long term thing. It's not going to be a short term thing, especially if you want to have a family. And if you want to carry out
those very important aspects of life, you know.
And on the other hand, I think Muslim institutions have to create environments that are conducive to sisters being able to attend
with the Ibrahim College in London, they actually win some of their students got married during the course because the thing is, it's like a five year, sometimes six years course. Right? So you can imagine, especially a young woman, maybe in her early 20s, that's like the peak the
the right time that she's going to get married, right. It's like ideal. So
instead of those girls, those sisters getting married and then dropping out, right. One of the great things that crime college did was set up a crash in the college right. So that
literally some of the sisters who will
In the final year of the final two years, they would come with their baby, maybe bring a member of the family or somebody they trust, you know, like the mother or to stay on the site with them. And they gave them a nice space, with toys and everything and so that the children could also be looked after,
while their mother was in the other room, you know. So I think we have to create those kind of environments, myself, like,
when certain stages when I was attending classes,
I would take my little daughter with me, and I would pay a sister, as a babysitter to come with me to the courthouse. And, you know, like a student sister, who I trust, and we know, and she would be in the next room. And so my daughter was right there. And I could attend the class and in the breaks, I could go and attend to my daughter. So I'm not going to say that it's easy. Okay, as you can tell, that doesn't sound very easy.
No, it takes planning, it takes determination.
But I think the main thing is, you have to be in it for the long term, you know.
So I hope that answers the question. I mean, I do think it is different for men and women, it can be
and unless a woman is going to put her whole life on hold, right in terms of marriage and stuff.
It's, it's not going to be the same, you know.
But it's not impossible. So I think let's change, change the expectation that we have, you know, we don't need it to finish in four years or a few years, very quickly, can be a long term thing.
But the problem is that a lot of people don't have the
patience, I would say to, to continue, you know, and to keep going until they reach a certain milestone.
So instead, I'll see what motivated you from the start. Was it because your dad said study or you had the zeal to study like, right from the teenage years?
Well, Hamdulillah, like, I think one of the things is that growing up in London, okay, so I went to normal schools, you know, like, girls school, and I went to a state school, just to an ordinary school, but mix school with,
you know, people of all different backgrounds, we grew up with people of all different backgrounds and religions and cultures.
And throughout school, I would, especially in secondary school, I would always get questions about Islam. Because in those days,
this is like in the 90s, I would say, 1990s.
There weren't that many visible Muslims, you know, in certain areas of London. So we were one of the visible families, you know, obviously, we dressed as Muslims.
And then look for the answers to those questions about Islam.
And so that kind of, I think, triggered an interest, you know, and a realization that
the society around us needs Islam, you know, they need this message. And as a person brought up in the West, I felt like, I used to ask myself, why, why did Allah have my whole family in India? I think my dad is the only one, right? who moved to London.
So I was like, one of the first kids in our family to be born in London.
So I would ask, you know, why, why did that happen? And it's such an unlikely thing to happen, you know, especially from the area of India that we're in, Where from?
And so then I think the realization dawned on me that, with that
situation, that alone put me in came a huge responsibility. You know, English, my first language, were native speakers of English, grew up in this culture.
It's our duty to articulate Islam to the wider public. Right. So that's one aspect. I think the constant questions I used to get school motivated me, but definitely the fact that my dad was a scholar.
You know, my mom was always praising
scholars and being a scholar who was like seen as the greatest thing you could aspire to, right?
Like my mom, she was used to describe my dad as somebody who was not immersed in, in worldly things. He was immersed in a higher calling, right. So I think from a young age, I
internalize that, obviously. And I always knew even as a teenager, I've got a, like an old diary of mine, you know, where I wrote down my parents for my life. And one of them was, I want to go and study Islam. You know, I want to study, I want to be a scholar. And I want to share the message of some
women all over the world. That's what I wrote in my diary. And I was like, 15. So.
So there was that. And so when I reached the age of 16, my dad was like, Okay, what options do we have, you know, and then Hamdulillah, I was a straight A student at school, you know, I was planning on going into medicine maybe, or,
actually, one of the sciences, right medicine, I was like medicine or astrophysics. For some reason I had those two in my, in my mind.
My dad suggested to me,
you know, you could go to Egypt. And I think to me, in those days, Egypt was like this very romantic, I had a very romantic image of Egypt.
The place because we studied the school as the piece of cardboard and the pyramids and all of that, right.
But also had a romantic image of Alice, her University, and, you know, the great scholars of our history. In those days, we used to listen to Shia Hamza Yusuf. And he noted Hamza Yusuf from America,
as well as to listen to them a lot as teenagers because they were, they were like the superstar. In those days, I used to come to London, and Hampshire Hamza Yusuf used to speak so powerfully about.
I was like, you know, it was amazing, mesmerizing, and you said anything? Wow.
I used to be so great. And he used to talk about it as though, you know, I remember once he said, even the child on the street was a half of you know, in those days, and he would talk about the amazing institutions. And I think this was like, before he was even kind of setting up
the Institute for college.
So
yeah, so all of these factors, I think, together, you know, they kind of
influenced me to thinking, you know, I want to have a connection with that part of the world. I want to go into scholars work. I want to learn Arabic properly, you know, and my dad facilitated for me to travel to Egypt, he came with me initially and settles me in there. I started at a college, or university, and also
the different centers learning Arabic, and all the different I mean, I literally did not know, I knew how to read the Quran, and I knew how to read some basic Arabic. But I really didn't understand a word, you know, when I got there. So I was starting from scratch. So I think that was the beginning of the journey.
Yeah, that was one of the powerful things my dad said to me. When I when he said, you know, what would you like to be? What would you like to do? And I said,
I think I really would like to be a surgeon doctor, right?
And my dad said,
he said, Well, you know what? There are a lot of surgeons there were there were a lot of doctors in the world. Yeah, doctors on the physical heart.
He said, don't you think we need doctors have spiritual heart? You know, we need more doctors of the spiritual heart. And I think that really stayed with me as well, you know. So.
Yeah, I think that was the beginning of the journey.
Yeah.
So prior to prior to marriage, did you at that moment when you started? How did you feel? Did you feel like,
after a year, you feel like, Can I continue with this? Or did difficulties that come in after marriage?
difficulties in seeking knowledge?
Like, challenges? Definitely. You said it's not easy, like it became quite tough. And so it starts only after the marriage. Prior before the marriage, there were some
difficulties and
Well, look, I, I think
in many ways, marriage made it easier as well. Right? So living in Egypt, as a single woman, by yourself or even with a group of girls, other sisters is really hard. You know?
It's not easy living in Egypt, if you've ever been to Cairo Have you?
Okay, so every time you step out of your house, you think you're gonna die in Cairo. Okay? Because?
Because, sorry, I have to laugh because
actually not joking. It's, it's like, there are no rules on the road, right?
There's a lot of harassment. I'm not going to shy away from saying that, you know, as a single woman living there, if you get on a bus, she gets home, any kind of public transport.
Even if you're dressed like this, even if you're dressed in niqab, right? Unfortunately,
there are certain social ills that are prevalent there, such that you would could get harassed.
And when you don't have a man with you, when you don't have a husband, it's not easy, you know, because usually us girls, you know, we were brought up with,
not to be that assertive, and not to be aggressive, etc, right. So we would find it hard to,
to fight off anybody who's, you know, approaching us in an inappropriate way, right. So unfortunately, living by yourself and not having a husband. In some ways, it is much harder, you know, especially in certain countries.
And also, like, getting administration done, and, you know, all of that side of things, right? Just getting,
yeah, like, if you're, if you've got a man with you, that have the life's gonna be a lot quicker, right? Because he can literally muscle his way into buildings and
stuff like that. So I think,
I wouldn't say that it was much easier. Being single, right? I think being single has its own tests and trials, you know, you can feel very lonely.
Especially at that stage of your life, when you're a teenager or older, just slightly older than that.
You can stop in quite lonely.
People can take advantage of you, you know, if you're in a foreign country,
and it's just, it just helps a lot to have
somebody with him. So, but on the other hand, you have a lot of free time, right? Because you don't have the responsibilities of a family and, and all of that. So definitely, you know, more time and more kind of ability to commit.
I think the key thing is, when I was getting married, that my husband was on board when it came to my studies, right? I think that's really important that for both husbands, both spouses, if there's something that's important to you, right, that you know, is going to be important to you in your life, it's really important to bring that up during the meetings that you have for marriage, you know, when before you get married.
So that other person can can kind of take that can fully take that you can kind of
understand where you're coming from and enter the marriage with the eyes open. Knowing that, okay,
this is something that we knew from the beginning is going to be important. So. So for me, I actually put in my marriage contract
that my husband actually agreed as part of the marriage contract, like, just as a like an honorific mention, I would say that he would facilitate my studies
until graduation, right.
The graduation ended up taking a long time, though. And he ended up dating it for a long time.
But because that was
it was something that we'd agreed beforehand, you know? And he'd asked me, I remember in our marriage meetings, he'd asked me, you know, okay, but what if there was a situation where, you know,
if there are children involved, and, you know, what, would you cry all the time?
He did. We did have that discussion, you know, and I made it very clear that, of course, my family, my children would always be my priority, you know?
So we'd already had those discussions beforehand. And I think what that did was help afterwards, because then
when I wanted to continue, my husband helps me, you know, he helped me by funding me, helped me by supporting me with the kids.
And he even helped me by traveling and trying to help me find institutions I could go to
abroad. I didn't end up going to institutions at the end,
because some institutions opened up right here in London. Right. But even then, I think having a supportive husband, having a supportive spouse
was really, really key. Of course, you know, I would say I'm eternally going to be thankful to my husband, you know, because
Pamela, the person who seeks knowledge, that's something, you know, we know that is blessing in sha Allah. But the person who funds the person who seeks knowledge, right, the person who supports them, how much reward will they get handler? That's also a big thing, right?
So I would say,
trying to find a spouse who supports your work supports your goals, and you have both have a similar, I would say, Outlook. Right? I think that's, that's key. Having family support has been key.
But also being realistic. You know, there are times when I've had to stop studying, you know, and that's okay.
I would actually, sometimes study through listening only, you know, listening to lectures. I mean, we're living at a time. So hello, when knowledge is so accessible, if a person can discipline themselves, they could learn a lot, right? Even without attending a course. Although it's ideal. It's ideal to attend the class ideal to study with fewer great, but sometimes do the ideal. So instead of stopping completely, you've got to do the next best thing, which is, okay, I can learn through listening, I can learn through online lectures, online courses.
Just don't stop and keep going.
When you spoke about
the marriage meetings, I just wanted to highlight something to my followers, because on this show, we have a weekly series every Wednesday, and it's about marriages, basically. So the day before yesterday, which was when as they were talking about pre marriages in the meetings, so the Shaykh was talking about compatibility and things which you should talk about in the marriage meetings. And he just highlighted for in case there any of the followers have watched the last episode of the marriage series, I think this will be put into consideration all these kinds of things we should talk about, because we're talking about some marriage meetings and during the marriage meetings,
which they take as priorities.
Okay, what are your favorite colors? Do you like long walks at the beach. So that those are the kind of things you see them discussing about. So I guess anyone who was at the last session of the marriage
program can put this into the list of what they should talk about. And secondly, we talked about
the funding and I just remember a video I saw, I think I saw on your page about the two brothers who one was stunning and one was funded. And like, it was really amazing
how the brother the brother wasn't the minister will say, but he was funding the study. And he got such a massive reward.
Even there's even a hadith
which I forget the exact source for, in which a brother came to the Prophet sallahu wa sallam and was complaining. He was complaining that my brother, he doesn't do any work. He just studies all the time. He just wants to study the in all the time. And I do all the work, and I provide for him, right? And the profits or loss, and I said to him, the reason why you are getting risk is because of him. Yeah, any allies giving you seven. So that's why like, I sometimes it's my husband.
You're getting money because of me, you know, like because I'm studying.
So you should, you should freely give it to me, you know when I need it. So, I mean, that's just a little joke, but you understand what I'm saying, right? But we'll take on when we take on a responsibility, an extra responsibility. So say for example, a man decides I'm going to start supporting my mother financially. I'm going to start giving her money regularly, you know, so just to help her
But to make her feel supported, then of course, Allah will provide more to him in order for him to be able to do that, right. So we should never feel that when we take on a responsibility at something, bless it something like supporting, if we can't study ourselves, because support a student of knowledge,
we should never think that that's going to diminish our wealth, no law will actually put more wealth into your risk, more money into your risk in order for you to be able to,
to do that, you know, so.
So, we are discussing two topics today. And before we move into the second segment, I'll just want to advise the sisters, do you find the sisters here to take the path of long term study?
I know now, a lot of the sisters or whoever will feel like okay, should I take the path of the long term study? Or should I just keep it within the normal limits? And now she's now the parents are not saying you have to do this, all you have to do that the decision is to the system.
What would you advise on this kind of situation?
The thing is, everyone has a different situation, right? So
most people don't get married when they're 19. I don't think I don't know what it's like in Nigeria. But I got married when I was 19. So
if you're getting married, if you think you're going to be getting married in your 20s, late 20s, etc, or sorry, mid 20s, etc, which is kind of normal,
then why not, you know, make the most of your youth make the most of your years when you don't have those extra commitments? Of course, that's what we should do, right.
But I think what I'm trying to say is that
you don't want to put your whole life on hold.
For something that is probably going to take a long time. Do you know what I mean?
So, for example, sometimes, this is an issue in the UK, I don't know if you have this issue there. But sometimes people in order to pursue a particular not even just Islamic Studies, you know, it could be medicine, it could be any, any long term or kind of
something that takes a long time commitment. In order to pursue it, they would delay marriage, right.
And they would keep turning away suitors. So you know, people who come for marriage, so people might come to propose, and they will keep turning them away, turning them away, turning them away. And then unfortunately, something that we sometimes have have experienced here is that when sisters get to a certain age, and it's unfortunate that this happens, but it's just the way it is.
The number of people who propose to them starts
to decline, because the brothers are getting married. her brothers are all just getting married. A brother's not gonna wait. He's not gonna wait till he's 13 right to get married because he has to stay taste, right?
He's going to get married.
By the age of 25. A lot of brothers are married, I would say we're at the age of 25.
Definitely, by the age of 30, right.
culturally speaking, a lot of brothers would like to marry somebody who's younger than them, right.
Again, that's not necessary. But
we're not talking about what's ideal here. We're talking about the real world. Right.
So yeah, I would be very, I would be very wary to advise to a sister something that was going to detriment her life, you know.
And, unfortunately, sometimes we see this phenomenon here in the UK, that
when people, especially sisters, because I think,
you know,
it's just the way it is, it just tends to be not, it's not that it's always but it tends to be this window of time.
When they get more proposals and more, kind of
you don't want to put your whole life on hold.
For something that's probably going to take a long time. You know what I mean?
So, for example, sometimes this is an issue in the UK. I don't know if you have this issue there.
But sometimes people in order to pursue a particular, not even just Islamic Studies, you know, it could be medicine, it could be any, any long term or kind of
something that takes a long time commitment in order to pursue it, they would delay marriage, right.
And they would keep turning away suitors. So you know, people who come for marriage, so people might come to propose, and they will keep turning them away, turning them away, turning them away. And then unfortunately, something that we sometimes have have experienced here is that when sisters get to a certain age, and it's unfortunate that this happens, but it's just the way it is.
The number of people who propose to them starts waning,
to decline because of the brothers are getting married. Brothers are all just getting married. The brother is not going to wait. He's not going to wait till he's 13, right to get married because he has to stay chaste. Right?
He's going to get married.
By the age of 25, a lot of brothers are married, I would say, we're at the age of 25.
Definitely, by the age of 30, right.
And, culturally speaking, a lot of brothers would like to marry somebody who's younger than them, right.
Again, that's not necessary. But
we're not talking about what's ideal here. We're talking about the real world. Right.
So yeah, I would be very, I would be very wary to advise to a sister something that is going to detriment her life, you know.
And, unfortunately, sometimes, we see this phenomenon here in the UK, that
when people specially sisters, because I think,
you know,
it's just the way it is, it just tends to be not, it's not that it's always it tends to be this certain window of time
when they get more proposals and more kind of
interest for marriage, right. And it's kind of important not to
take that for granted. You know, because I think when a person gets a proposal, that's also a type of risk from Allah, isn't it? If somebody comes to you asking for your hand in marriage, or for your daughter's hand in marriage,
you should not take that as shouldn't just brush it off easily. You know, the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam advised me that when a man comes to you, and whose character is satisfying to you, yeah.
Then marry him to your daughter, right? And I remember that. That's one of the reasons why I took it quite seriously. When I was when I got a proposal, right, it wasn't something that I was just going to,
you know, think, Oh, you know, it's okay. There's plenty of fish in the sea, right? I wasn't gonna take it lightly like that. Because
these things, even proposals are something from a lot, you're supposed to take it seriously. If you want society to thrive and to be successful, we're not supposed to make marriage hard. Are we? So?
So that's why I would say, if you're,
of course, you know, if you if you have a normal situation, I didn't have a normal situation. That's what I'm trying to say.
There wasn't Islamic institutions in the UK at the time, when I was
19 2021,
I would have had to go abroad.
And so and I got married young. So if you're in that kind of situation, I would say, don't feel that you cannot do anything, you know, you can you just have to do it long term. On the other hand, if you're in a place where you've got access to knowledge, you've got access to institutions. You're a young person, go for it, you know, of course with we're encouraged to use our youth
to
benefit because, sadly, most of us
we don't realize how precious youth is right? Until it's gone.
So definitely, if you can use that time, you know, but I think when it comes to Islamic knowledge, it is a lifelong thing. Even
even people who graduated you know, they still continue to study. It's not like it completely stops. It never completely stops
all the stops when you die, I guess. Yeah, yeah.
Exactly.
So at a certain point, you start. At a certain point, I think you start
teaching as well, right? You start not just seeking knowledge, but also teaching knowledge. And then it becomes like a dual thing. You study and you teach, and then you give. Yeah, yeah.
What you just said about teaching?
I think this is gonna be the last question before we move forward. Is there any do you actually need to say, okay, I've studied? So to this extent that I start teaching, or do you just start to give out the knowledge? Once you take in you give? Or do you have to take there's a certain level of how much you take, before you begin to give?
Yeah, that's a really good question. Because,
you know, when you have a little bit of knowledge, you get overconfident sometimes,
and you start wanting to share it quickly, quickly, because you're like, ah, I've got this amazing thing I've just studied, I just, I just have to teach it. And also, when you're younger, you can be quite hot headed, right? You know, me at 20 is not the same as me at 14, is completely different. By the time you're 14, you've come you've kind of experienced a lot in life, you know, you've, you've met a lot of people, you're actually a lot less judgmental of people, right?
A lot more compassion for people, because you've probably been through a lot as well, by them, you know, and you've been humbled a little bit by life.
But also, I think
you realize certain things, you know, as you get older, that are not as black and white as you thought they were, you know, when you were younger, it's just the way it is. It's just the way it is right? Things seem so clear when you're young, right?
So one of the great advices that my shoe gave me was that the scars of the past, we used to warn the students, be careful not to become famous too quickly.
Believe it or not, they used to say to their students, be careful not to become famous, and not to become known too quickly before your time.
Because what happens is you will make a lot of mistakes, you see, you will make a lot of mistakes in public. And sometimes you
don't want to name any names. But sometimes you may see some YouTubers or brothers who have a very kind of raw, you know, in their knowledge, and they just really want to like slam different people down and
they just take
the hat, there's nothing more than that. It's just so when you see that sometimes you think 10 years time that brother is going to really regret that video.
Because at this time, it seems very black and white. And that's just the nature of youth, you know, feel very overconfident.
So I think that was a really good piece of advice that one of us You gave said don't seek and don't become too prominent too soon. Also, one of the advices My dad always gave me was
your output is only going to be as good as your input.
Do you know what I mean? Yeah. So the more you input, the more you study, the more you write, and develop your thinking and engage, the better your output is going to be right? In our times is very kind of easy for people to just learn something,
learn something and then start teaching it immediately. Right.
I think that's that's kind of like something important for everyone to internalize your input, your output is only going to be as good as your input was in the first place. So allow yourself to take in take in take in from different types of shoe. I'm telling you, you know, like, sometimes we limit ourselves to one group, or one particular type of chef, right. And until you study with a few different types of people, right? Obviously, study with qualified people, trustworthy people, but slightly different schools or slightly different ways of thinking until you do that to diversify yourself a little bit. Okay. You kind of appreciate that actually. Lots of hanadama intended for
this
to be dynamic and he intended for someone to
Have a level of, I would say, flexibility in it, you know? Because otherwise, how else how else would Islam spread to every corner of this earth? Right? If there was only one static, cultural version of Islam, right? How is it possible that brother likes apologies? Isn't it amazing? Like, we've never met before, you are in a completely different continent. I come from India, but I'm in London.
It's just such a weird situation, right? But it's amazing that the thing that unites us is that you're my brother in Islam, right? I'm your sister in Islam. That's, that's a miracle. That's a gift. That's it. That's amazing. I feel instantly connected to you. And to my brothers and sisters in Nigeria, even though I've got nothing in common with you, except Islam.
So I think one of the miracles of our DNA is that a lot, a lot made it such that it had the flexibility, cultural flexibility, as well as, you know, religious flexibility to spread across the world. And for people of different cultures, different situations, different inclinations, and cap and personalities to adopt it, you know,
and there's a blessing in that diversity. Of course, there are things that are deviations, there are things that are go beyond the pale, and not endorsing that. But within the spectrum of permissibility. Right, of Allison ojima would say,
there is diversity, and until you study with a number of different shoes, and you realize that, you know, there's the there are different ways of looking at things, you know,
we
write for from the right from mishaps, basically resi
diversities.
Exactly.
So I think that helps to open your mind a bit. So, yeah, so I think it's really important to wait
till
I think a point when your own shoe to
kind of indicate to you that you are ready, you know, and for most of us, that's going to be like when you graduate, because graduation is your show, you're giving you the Shahada and saying, You know what, I endorse you, you reached a certain level, I have looked at your work, I know you, and I give you that edge as I give you that kind of seal license.
So I think that's the obvious milestone. Okay. But that's not to say you don't do any power before that, you know, I think the rule of thumb and this is something that too, she said to me, my own father, and also remember, Haytham
in the UK, he always said to us talk about the things that everyone agrees upon. You know, you know, there are things in Islam that we all agree upon. Right?
Those are the things that we should, especially when we're young, do our to, you know, stay away from the controversies and the side issues and the fringe issues and the things that cause the cause disunity. Okay.
Instead, focus on the things that will bring unity, the things that Muslims agree upon, we all agree on tawheed, right. We all agree that there is one God and that we should worship Him alone. We all agree about the Prophet sallallahu Sallam and the main the main aspects of the deal, right? We all agree that Muslim has to pray five times a day, right? That they have to cost the five pillars of Islam for example,
issues which are like very clear to the ummah. Yeah, I mean, the Muslim woman is not doing those basic things, right. So, so those are the things that every Muslim can call to, you know, regardless of the level of their knowledge.
But when it comes to more detailed things,
and controversial things, okay. I would say it's better.
First of all, to do it in the right place, you know, so it's not necessary to talk in public about all the different I don't know * and groups, and
There's just no need to cause that kind of disunity.
But then again, if you're in a class where you're teaching theology, or you're in a class where you're teaching
about the *, or about a feeder, etc, you might, you might highlight those differences, right? And you might say, well, this is the one that, you know,
the opinion that I follow, or the opinion that I believe is most correct, right. But in the general public, you don't want to cause harm, you don't want to cause disunity when it's unnecessary to do so. And so you don't want to cause fitna so I think it takes a level of wisdom of knowing, you know, we call it
the rich feeling, right? So having that knowledge is sought and also imparted in, in a certain order. It's not done. Like, I'm not going to start talking to a guy who doesn't believe in Allah. Okay, about why he should stop drinking alcohol. I probably wouldn't do that, you know, I'm not going to start talking about why you shouldn't have a girlfriend, if he doesn't even believe in Allah in the first place. Right? Rhonda? I would focus on
him his belief in Allah, right? That's that becomes the first priority then once he believes in Allah, then inshallah other things will come, you see.
So
yeah, I was allowed to say that. Yeah. You say you say please.
Okay.
She said
she was she was talking about if the if the,
the is a former advisor, they came, they would have
been people that have come to Islam.
So please, to explain that more further. He said, that if you check the monkey Sutras, they were more emotional things. There were things about Jenna
which are like emotional wounds, people really feel that in their heart Okay, then then
this like sets the mind and now you know that okay, yes, I have to choose between this point this is in general
the rule started coming in how to get general and things which will put you into Hana. So since you've already gotten the goal,
basically, it's about the goal when the goal comes then other things follow and that's how we understand.
Exactly so early on the the leader of the Muslim was being developed the beliefs the connection with Allah right connection with Allah and the pillars of belief. And later on the commands and the prohibitions and the details you know, so Yeah, exactly. So I think we have to that shows you doesn't it that
we need wisdom, we need to know that there's an order of priority even in our
I'm going to end the video that I'll start with Instagram lives at the last one hour.
If I don't end it now, we might miss the video and we won't be able to save it.
So for every other person after I end the video you can join again now started immediately.
So we'll just wait for the others to join the criteria inshallah.
So, Brother, what is can you tell me in the meantime, what is your study background?
Yeah, so, I
mean, basically here in Nigeria, it's Nigeria is like Mashallah, we have a whole a large community of Muslims. So, at that young age, we have about 19 million basically so that young
Almost everybody has just put in the Islamic school to have the basic knowledge, the knowledge of though he learned how to read overhand, and just the basic foundation. And then until recently, and that has been
on, we've been on because we're 20 I think I told you, and
for now, we're studying more we are going into like more advanced studies. Now we are getting into the main books of art. And you know, here in Nigeria, it's like, you can just get knowledge, knowledge is like really, really, really accessible. Because Israel's everywhere, both in institutions, private classes, so we had a lot of private classes with the outside the prominent fields in the city.
So basically, we are studying
a little bit of
fixing, fixing our hips and handle.
So basically, it's just like, no, really no real.
There is no profile and I'll say like yours, which will say
it's good, but inshallah we're looking at I'm looking forward to like, further the studies and go in for long term inshallah.
inshallah.
I think it's really important, isn't it, that people build their foundations. So a lot of the time, sometimes when people come and ask me, like, you know, what do I need to focus on? And I say to them, well, first you need to study Arabic, you know,
you need to fix up your Quran recitation, you need to make sure you, you can connect with the book of Allah, right?
Sometimes people, people get put off by that, because
they assume that seeking knowledge is a glamorous thing, you know, like,
but actually, it's going to take a lot of years of sometimes studying stuff that takes that is quite mundane, you know, and I mean, like, for example, learning Arabic vocabulary, you know, and, you know, it takes time it takes effort, it takes repetition.
And sometimes people don't,
I'm not willing to put that time in you know.
So I think you have to be realistic, you know, that anything that you want to achieve if you want to achieve a level of mastery. And first of all, if you want to connect with the book of Allah, you need to understand the language of the book of Allah right?
If you neglect that it's hard to fix that later on.
So I think it's really important to take the time to study Arabic properly classical Arabic
and Mashallah there are Institute's you know, now available
even in Egypt there are lots of Institute's that have online classes, you can do over zoom over Skype.
And it's not I know, sometimes people might be thinking, Well how am I going to learn a language like that? Believe me, they're very experienced teachers, and they have like online whiteboards.
So they can write things and
you can see them obviously
they are trained in being able to get you to speak in Arabic very quickly. So I think it's just a matter of
taking the step committing you know,
and if you can traveling to places where you can learn Arabic
or finding Apple within your own country
those institutions which you which you talked about, like they'll be really beneficial especially I know some people viewing right now will really need that and also will really benefit from that. And so even after the live so I can share it to everybody okay, you mean the institutions for learning Arabic
Yeah, the ones online
Yeah, sure.
I will share those inshallah
so unlike I think
it comes to Institute's of seeking knowledge. Because in London, I'll say it's gonna be like more organized because I'll say due to the fact that
In London, it's if you want to seek knowledge if you want to, if you don't want to seek proper knowledge, you know, okay, this is where I go to this is where I go through this is this college that college. And I guess because it's the Muslims are not the majority, it's gonna be like, there's a more of organization due to the little number cuz I don't know for now but I don't think the Muslims in London are 2 million
obviously now
in London there should be like around a million or less
I forgotten the exact number, but it's a big number.
Unlike here in Nigeria, we have cities who is basically no non Muslim was actually for the city. So
Muslim countries
basically the whole of northern Nigeria is like a Muslim dominant area than the South is part of the South, the western part, the western south, the southwest part is also like, they have about 50% of the Muslim. So basically the country is like 70% of Muslims and out of 180 almost 100 million Muslims.
So people get access to the and the
traditional background of Islam, although like the diversities,
the appeal to the traditional background of the South. So everybody accesses knowledge,
like the smallest
Village, here, you're going to qualify for us who can teach you. So it's quite easy. I'll say.
Yeah, it's quite easier. Actually. Some people will travel from the city to the villages to do
this lesson distraction. where you come from the city now. You go to the village and no one really cares about the kind
of the kind of house you got. They don't really care.
Because here Nigeria actually needs to be had villages, which people still go.
They don't use the very few cars. Like we I study I studied in socoto. And the you heard of manda fonio.
That's like, I've heard his name.
Yeah. So in this in that city, we have a lot of villages whereby people still use camels, donkeys and so no one really, no one is really bothered about the bandits. So a lot of people go back to those places to go there. And when they come back to the city,
continue other
fields of seeking knowledge. So back to the topic.
We're talking about women.
I wanted to ask,
as my sister my older sister, she was talking about women and Tao and she was like, she wish she could see like other she she listened to a lecture by Israel.
And she was like, she wishes that they were other women doing this
amendment amendment. And she was wishing the other women doing this and are like, Mashallah, we have a lot to share lectures to her. So how does this the Dow of a woman? does it vary from the Dow of a man? Because I think that's the question which I have to ask, does it vary from the data which a man gives in the sense that
comes out? I'll say the man has more freedom to access every buddy he can teach here.
Like, let's see
if they have any female teachers in domestic level, male show us domestic delivery and stuff like that. So how does how does the data for the woman work? And that is I'm asking for all of us because I don't, I don't know too.
You could like, touch upon it a little.
Okay.
Well, first of all, one of the reasons why, you know, when you said, you know, what about girls studying and seeking knowledge, and I would say one of the reasons why it's important for us to have knowledgeable daughters, right? is of course, not the only reason but one of the reasons is that they're going to literally
raised the next generation of Muslims, right? So the first area of our is our own families, right? Our own children. And so many times when I was like, if I would go into a class, I would study something, the CRR, or some detailed story or some aspect of Habib, I would come home and share that with my kids, right? It's something to convey to them is something that, you know, you can inform them with in their own life. Right. So, so there's that aspect of our and I don't think we should be, you know, because our Muslim can never be great if our families are not great, right. And if there's nobody focusing on the family,
it's a lost cause doesn't matter, you can go to these big conferences and preach and look good. And you know, get the applause, right.
But if you're if, if we're not conveying those messages to our families, then we've got our priorities wrong. So I think it's really important to remember that 1000s of sisters around the world, when they seek knowledge,
they're probably focusing on their own families afterwards, right? And their own local communities. So for example, I know so many sisters who get graduated from, you know, Islamic, or Lamia degrees or whatever. And they, you wouldn't have heard of them. Right? Wouldn't have heard their name. But that doesn't mean they're not doing important work. You know, they're probably focusing, and I know for a fact that they are focusing on their own local communities. grassroots power, right. So maybe they'll have a HELOC, or they'll have, sometimes they have online,
things that only sisters can access. So it's not so kind of in your face, it's not, you know, they're not going to put the image even even for myself just being photographed and putting, you're even just becoming on video. It's not something that I take lightly, you know, as a Muslim woman, because as the followers of Islam say that our soulful woman is hijab, right? We don't want in Islam, we don't have this idea that a woman is supposed to be, you know, in the same way, as a man out there in the public eye, almost like probably public property, right? We don't want that to happen to women, we don't want that to happen to women, and we don't want that to become like,
I would say exploited, right.
As we know, in some societies it is.
At the same time, I think, you know,
as you've highlighted, we do have this online world,
we have a lot of the wrong kinds of people trying to influence the youth, right, especially the girls
talking to the girls about their makeup, about their looks about you know, all sorts of things that are kind of bringing taking them away from a lot, right. And so, because of that, because of that, I do think that there may need to be a few people, at least,
you know, who do put themselves in the public space
in order to kind of hopefully influence the especially the daughters, our daughters and the girls out there. And show them another way. Right. I think I think that's really important. And, and one of the things that came from I would say the Lv podcast, having a sisters podcast, you know, having like, myself presenting you're interviewing inspiring Muslim women on the European podcast, one of the things that have come from guys, I think, sisters are yearning like you said, this thing yearning for role models, you know, the the yearning to hear from sisters like themselves who have been through things and come out the other side and who put a lot off first.
And, and I think that's just the nature of human beings, isn't it? We're always looking for role models. We're looking for somebody out there who will show us a way of being so although I don't think it's necessary for all sisters to kind of become public figures, okay. And also, I don't think that's desirable either, sonically, okay.
as Muslims, I think we need to accept that in Islam. Men and women are different. You know, we don't we shouldn't be shy to say that.
Men and women are different.
So we the prophets were men, right? for a reason. Some scholars say that Maria Maria Salaam was a
majority of
the majority of the, the prophets were men, okay?
was no reason why they were men. It's because Allah Subhana, Allah gave that type of public responsibility to the men. Okay, so I don't think we want to
ignore that and diminish that just because
the west or kind of, you know, the media, or these external influences and pressures keep saying to us, where are your women? Where are your women? You know, bring them out, bring them up, I don't think we want to, we want to respond by saying, okay, we're going to bring our women out. Now we're going to just because just to satisfy your western style of doing things, right, I don't think that should be the reason. What should be the reason is, if a sister has an expertise, if she has knowledge, if she can influence people, and so Pamela, there are, like you mentioned, I
mean, there's so many, there are sisters out there, who are touching sisters in a way that brothers would not be able to reach them. Right.
And I think that's, that's something to be valued.
And I also think one of the reasons why,
you know, is because they want to have privacy, they want to kind of have, they don't want to be public figures, you know, because we've we're being a public figure, figure comes, it can come at a cost sometimes, right.
So, for example, you will get along racism, you will get a lot of public scrutiny.
And you have to be pretty thick skinned, to put up with that, or to not allow it to get to you, right.
And typically speaking, I once I was speaking to this, this BBC journalist,
and she was saying that, even, you know, in the BBC, whenever they have a female guest, she will get much more attacked, much more criticism,
the way she looks, the way she speaks to everything will be attacked much more. This is like in the general public, right? Much more than
I don't know why that is. Okay. But that's, that's a phenomenon that not every woman wants to put up with. And she has a right not to have to put up with that, because she has a family, she has a reputation, she has her husband, she has a sense of honor. You know.
That's how I remember the first time when I was on a kind of debate, television debate or something.
Afterwards, this is the wrong thing to do. By the way, you should never read the comments. But if you do read the comments, sometimes people say, the worst things, you know, like, especially if they're not,
you know, they're not our brothers and sisters in Islam, and they have a certain hatred towards Islam, etc.
There's no limits that they will go to, you know, there's no limits for them. And in terms of what they would be willing to say about a woman, right, sometimes a very foul thing that they would say that as a Muslim woman, it hurts you more, because we do have that sense of hierarchy, we have that sense of honor. You know, we don't want certain boundaries to be crossed. So I think it's really important for us to be nuanced when we discuss this. Not every sister wants to be a public figure. And being in the public, it doesn't mean you're serving people better. You know, I know sisters who are completely nobody knows them in the public. But they do the real, real excellent work in their
communities, you know.
But I do think brothers need to realize that
there are sisters out there yearning to see some female role models. And so maybe brothers will need
for there to be platforms on which sisters can engage in a positive way. And that's why you know, l feed was kind of a pioneer in that because I think a lot of the brothers in the UK, for example, they are still quite unsure
how to accommodate the sisters, you know,
to be honest, so I know some
conditions they would be very happy for me to write to write articles right.
But I don't think I would ever be invited on to their podcast.
Right, that's okay. Like they
they're struggling to know, like, what is the best way to deal with this, you know, and sometimes due to the idea of
subtotal is, you know, closing the doors to home. Due to that, they sometimes get a bit worried, you know, like, Okay, if we start inviting sisters, then we'll open the floodgates to this and that and, you know, whatever sister wants to come on, and she doesn't, she doesn't want her job. Or, you know, there's lots of issues that they worry about behind the scenes. So I think some, some brothers, some media organizations a little bit reticent, I would say.
But others, like LP, for example, and like, what you're doing, I think they recognize that look,
there's a decent way to do it, you know, if we get the right people who know the job of being in public,
of course, nobody's perfect, we all fall short. But we do our best. And for the greater good. I think there is a benefit in sisters.
Also being in the public space, but I think we have to do it carefully.
To be very taught about the system, people being attacked, and the pressure, I just remember any time I go into YouTube, especially, you know, YouTube gives recommendations. So what you see is to see something like
that exposed, exposed,
also, so exposed, and this something which
other people watch this video, and there'll be like, so had a lot like, I never knew he was so filthy, and they begin to attack the shields. And it takes a lot to handle that, I would say,
it takes a lot to handle that which for some sisters might put them in some kind of psychological trauma for the for the time being, which is something which the brothers, some of the brothers, who will be able to handle
these attacks, which you talked about. And
the brothers find it hard as well, you know, they find it hard.
But you're right, like for sisters, it can be even more sensitive.
And we talked about getting role models. I remember, on our sixth episode of this lunchtime series with Dr. Tamara gray, she said
she said that, studying, having some females to use because and this issue was because a lot of the sisters, they also feel like yeah, we just we want to study with, with the with the known shields. Like here in this city, for example, when there's a when there's
one of the known shields, most times it's the brothers who attend when there's private sessions for the sisters. And then the brothers usually inform the sisters. Okay, there's this Hello.
Okay, what's the issue of this big
TV that everyone wants to go. And then the sisters that are done by the sisters, you see a very few sisters, like 567 to 10 sisters attended. And she highlighted she highlighted the importance of
female sheoak because just the same way and that was one of the reasons they gave the scholars they gave about not only studying online but having the shape because you're going to learn
the same way with the sisters, when you have that shape. That standard who you study from, you not only learn the knowledge, but you also learn how she implements the knowledge in her life in a sentence. When it comes to the problem of Okay, like you said, Now you have kids you have this to handle you. She also had kids and you also see okay, this is how she handled handled it and
so you can follow suit. And I feel this is
very, very important having the female scholars and I think I had I think
I listened to all the podcasts like I think I listen to all the podcasts.
And I think the one with the one with Dr. heifer Yunus. I think she said she studied all the other females
That's really
inspiring.
So I feel some of the systems should also think about knowing who the female shields and studying with them. Because basically, we have a snake here in Nigeria, we have a lot of sisters who, who have a lot of knowledge they want to teach. But like you said, the higher the added the honor, the dignity of not just coming out to the public space, they do it within your small circles in the small communities. And that's for the and this is one advice, which I'm going to give, because a lot of the sisters are coming to me, and
basically the president of the MSA, in my university, the Muslim Students Association, so a lot of them, they come and they are like, they want to deliver a lecture they want to so we have a university whereby we like 7000 6800, Muslims.
Everybody's a Muslim, basically, and everybody wants to deliver a lecture. So we choose, and if some of the sisters come and we have too much requests, and they're like, everybody, maybe we have just two slots and 10 sisters wants to deliver this lectures and the brothers
and the brothers too, they want to deliver lectures, I usually tell them, okay, would you want to talk about this, you want to give to our within your I think within your Dmitri or within your the holster which you recited, or the community, which you recite in around the university, I think you start with that in shall lead the space, if this any accommodation for you to come and give a public lecture to the whole university, then we'll make that possible.
And most of them are attacking me and the other other brothers who arranged these they be like, do you feel you're eligible that ask what what what what you don't want to give us this place to come to the public? And I feel like, come to the public. And so I feel like especially among the youth, this zeal of coming to the public is bad. And
you've spoken about the women for the men should it be so like, everybody just wants to be in public? And they want to be known. And like you said, okay, address that, I think you said, the scholars, they, they say we should, we should be unpopular for as long as possible.
This is something
Yeah, and this is something that for the most people, the experts, the students has knowledge as to this is knowledge. A lot of us after seeking this knowledge, we just want to go
on every platform, we want to go and YouTube want to be seen everywhere. And
I feel this is a this is an issue which we'll be bothered about, to be honest.
A lot of the students of knowledge, I like this,
the issue of studying under shake,
in the next 20 to 30 years might not be the same because basically the other, the people who will take a shape that will not have that either, which the generations will come from, if this is how it starts, I think.
Look, I think fame has its allure, you know. And every human being has to check themselves and ask why do I want this platform? Why do I want to do this? And why am I dismissing this type of power for that right? Look at the way Subhanallah even a loss of power that Allah in the Quran said to the Prophet sallallahu sallam.
You know, he said, when the prophet SAW Selim was giving more attention to something he thought was more important, right? A rich man who's very influential he wants he felt that was an important and he was giving that person attention. He got annoyed when a blind simple person who doesn't
maybe have status right.
Wanted to seek something from him Allah Subhana Allah
subhana wa
COVID corrected the prophets of Salaam in that right. So I think it is kind of natural for human beings to sometimes think this platform or this person or this thing is more important, more deserving of my attention or something, you know, then something else. But I think that's where we have to check our intentions, isn't it like some of our field needs to say
it should be the same to you. If one person
Comes turns on the halaqa. Or if hundreds turn up, you know, if you went there to, to convey something for the sake of Allah, it should not depress you annoy you make you feel low self esteem or whatever if people don't turn up, you know, and a lot of them in a lot of the people who use who we consider famous now, when they started off doing that, though it was a handful of people would come to their class, right?
It didn't all start off like this. I got a chance to spend time with Dr. Farhat Hashmi. And if you know her, she is one of the most influential female scholars in the world. She's from Pakistan, she's from Buxton, but she believes she's Canadian. Well, she lives in Canada as well. And she is the founder of alhuda Institute, which is an International Institute,
probably
because it's mainly kind of in western countries, and also Indian, India, Pakistan, etc, right.
She's,
her Institute has taught 1000s of women. And her focus is always women, as well focus on women and girls
to understand the Quran to read and understand the Quran from beginning to end, that's like their real focus.
I got a chance to spend some time with her
during some conferences and travel. And one of the things I noticed about her is that, you know, she's just very focused on I need to connect people with a lot. That's it, you know,
even she said to me that, look, she doesn't like her when robbers invite her to conferences, just as a token, you know, oh, we need to have a woman that
says she doesn't think she doesn't think that's a good reason. You know, don't don't just invite me because you need to tick the box that there's a woman there. Invite me if you feel that there's something important that I can give to those sisters, those women especially Yeah.
So I think it's important for us to and then she mentioned how, when she started off her Institute, which is a global institute, now, she just hired a room, in her city in Pakistan, I think it's llama by the river. And she would she just started a class in a room by hiring it.
So I think it's really important for us to realize that, you know, our intentions are very important, keeping our intentions pure, because one of the things that are scholar on the day of judgment will be
punished and, you know, rebuked by Allah Subhana Allah for his, uh, he just wanted to be famous, right? Just wanted to, for people to look up at him and her and say, ah, share her share.
These are the, you know, knowledgeable people that the carriers of the Quran or the cetera, et cetera, right. So we have to be very weary, that we don't
become addicted to this to fame, right. And we don't do things for the sake of fame.
But that we keep ourselves grounded. You know, if there's a small group of people who need us, just think of us, you know, why are you turning away? Why are you turning away from this small group? Are you looking down on them? Because you want the big platform? You know, don't look down on them, maybe they will be your ticket to agenda. Maybe they're the ones who
are sincere, that needs something from you that you can give them
that the big audience is not there for so
I think look, I guess, I hope I'm explaining myself. Well, in that. What I'm trying to say is, I know that it would be very lazy on me. If I came on here and say, yeah, you know, the brothers that don't give us a platform and you know, our sisters, why don't you allow us to speak on this and that and why isn't this advice?
That would be lazy? I think that would be the lazy way of looking at it. I think the reality of the situation is much more nuanced.
And I think as most things we know that just because something is shiny and bright and famous and public doesn't mean that that's where the burqa is right? Doesn't mean that's where the reward is. That's one platform. That's fine. But there are many, many platforms. Our homes are a platform.
local communities are a very important place where we need sisters, people who are willing to spend more time
Time and more effort developing people.
And I think a lot of sisters do do that.
So just because we don't know their names, and they're not famous
doesn't mean that the work isn't being done.
I think so people watching the money, like sent questions through WhatsApp, and they said,
Hey, this brother he wants to know, he says, How do you handle, like a lot of the sisters who they want to seek for knowledge.
They want to seek for knowledge. And then they eventually find brothers who are knowledgeable, but the brothers don't have helpers. Basically, no helpers, no nothing. But it's actually quite clear that, you know, the background, basically, you know, they started, they started that, and they will be fitted for you. So a lot of the sisters, they do approach this kind of brothers that they want to study, especially like the ones in university. Some some of the universities here, they don't have the mic, my university, I was able to set up high levels of difference fields for all the students who want to study, but some of the universities don't have this. So they have to meet the people who
they feel have knowledge. So the brother he he will his what he's asking here is, does he is it proper for the sister to come to those brothers and secret private lessons with them? So that's the question is asking.
Private
or private lessons will be like, it's the brother does not have any class. It wants to seek knowledge for herself. So now she's like asking the brother share this knowledge with me. Okay, come on. Let me study I have this book. Cotabato. I want you to teach me the book. And only the time.
Yeah, one to one. That's, that's what I was looking for.
Okay.
I think
I think it's really important for us to realize that we're all human beings, and human beings, there's a certain level of temptation and weakness that sets in when women and men interact with one another in close proximity. And it's real, it's real. It's not. It's not an exaggeration, you know, and especially when not limited to, but especially when you're not married. And, you know, you're a young person,
I think the danger of
forming an attachment
to somebody and appropriately, is very real, and that causes a lot of pain. So in order to prevent that pain in order to prevent
heroin situation from developing, okay, because, you know, those types of situations don't develop overnight. You know, when people when you hear about somebody who's fallen into a heroin relationship,
it happens in degrees, right? Slowly, slowly develops.
And so in order to prevent that, we know that DNA takes certain things very seriously. So things like the hijab, things like the way the lowering of the gaze, right?
Things like, not not being alone with somebody, right? Hello, being alone with somebody, the opposite *, etc.
And the reason for that is trying to prevent the doors to bigger harm, right.
So I think, bearing all of that in mind, it's always going to be better.
For if there is a knowledgeable brother, for him to have a class, you know, set up a class, not not with not one to one, you know, do it so that there's a group, a group of six needs to do this in Egypt all the time, you know, sometimes they're a shoo in allows her were known to be better teachers than others. So we would offer to, to, you know, pay tuition to them, for them to have a class. And when there's a group of sisters, it's just natural that the person is going to behave in a more formal way you know, it's just human nature, when you know that somebody else is listening to your messages and is
present right. That you you keep the relationship formal, right.
The danger in having a one to one is
the close proximity the
the possibility for a relationship to develop for attraction to develop
etc, etc. So I think
it's beneficial. But just like the I have the former advisor, there's some benefit but the fitness like, more Yeah.
Especially, there are ways to do it that are better, you know?
Yeah. Yeah. Like, we have to be careful that in the name of our in the name of
seeking knowledge, we're not just following our desires, right? We have to keep ourselves. Am I doing this? Because for the sake of Allah, what am I doing it because I'm getting something from it in terms of my desires. So
I remember what it felt like to be a teenager. So that's why I'm
quite aware of that situation as I had a long time ago.
One of the shakes I do study with online, she asked him and Hakeem, I don't know if you know him, he
did that out. So he said, in one of the classes, he said that
the like, it's better. No, it wasn't a conference. Yeah. conference, he said that.
It's better to have like, relationships like this, this haraam relationships, outside just the name that you saw the sister, and some people fell into that relationship, then to have that relationship in the name of enclosed under the banner of D and saying, Okay, yeah, you're doing this and you're doing that. And it just took me back to story, I think, a couple of years back, and one of the universities,
one of the private universities here in the country.
That's the president of the MSA, the Emir of the MSA. He got the Amira pregnant.
Got the Avira of that same MST pregnant. So this shows how much the fitment is maybe they started I don't know your story, but maybe they started on the way of the Avira. She's the Amira is the Amir. They are discussing issues of how to make the association move forward. And then attraction came in and Xena came in. And we see from the stories of people overseas who opened the doors for assist. And
the story is really scary because versus there was a monk who basically didn't care about any relationship with anybody but that was how much the fit of that traction was. So lots of things like this. And I think
we are like here we have about 10 minutes to F star here
all the sisters because two of the sisters who stayed online deserve to stay in because I guess my own sisters will be mad. They'll say okay
he doesn't join in the kitchen his is on the is on the live and yeah because I'm the best maker food salon here and so they wait for me and so
my brother he actually requested after we talked about the marriage he sent a message he said he would really love to have you like we should have you again on our marriage series because our Mercy is is like everywhere as the series and it will really love us like
in the coming week not this Wednesday but the next one as they if you will be inshallah
send me an email and we will see no problem
after Ramadan to be honest but if it's if it if I can accommodate
Yeah, I do prefer that No, no.
No So yeah, there's a lot of tight basically. Yeah, but again, you know, please if you send me an email then we can work it out and Charlotte.
So want to want to say before we end want to say a big thank you to the sponsors of this episode, grocery by Mira. They do deliver groceries round the decision, especially now where we are on the Paschal lockdown and people find it hard to be able to access some of their groceries. So even during the lockdown, they deliver groceries right to the
right to your doorstep. So people who live in this city will live in Abuja. I'll say you should contact them inshallah.
For the
They are handled was brought to you by Mira shala and then for the classes for those who asked about the online classes inshallah out post them once I get them from standard Fatima inshallah So does that allow for having you really, really love to have you It's a pleasure, love to have you again. Allah subhanaw taala bless you and your family shala I mean
to all my ancestors in Nigeria
and around the world