Ali Ataie – Defending the Quran The Quran and the Apocryphal gospels Dr

Ali Ataie
Share Page

AI: Summary ©

The Bible's historical and cultural significance is discussed, including its use of the word Jesus as a Christian paraphrasing and its historical and cultural absence of historical implants and assignment to the church. The title of Jesus Christ is discussed, and the Paragon of Jesus is discussed as a claims made by Christian apologists. The title of the Paragon of Jesus is not directly dependent on Jesus himself.

AI: Summary ©

00:00:03 --> 00:00:06
			Hello, everyone, and welcome to blogging theology. Today,
		
00:00:06 --> 00:00:09
			I'm very happy to welcome back doctor Ali
		
00:00:09 --> 00:00:10
			Atai from Zaytuna College
		
00:00:10 --> 00:00:14
			in California. Assalamu alaykum, sir. Walaikum Assalam, brother
		
00:00:14 --> 00:00:16
			Paul. How are you? I'm doing well. Very,
		
00:00:16 --> 00:00:17
			very good to have you back on the
		
00:00:17 --> 00:00:18
			channel.
		
00:00:18 --> 00:00:20
			Good to be back on Vlogging Theology.
		
00:00:20 --> 00:00:21
			Best, podcast
		
00:00:22 --> 00:00:23
			on YouTube.
		
00:00:23 --> 00:00:24
			You have no idea how much money I
		
00:00:24 --> 00:00:26
			have to pay to use. You get you
		
00:00:26 --> 00:00:27
			say that every time. But,
		
00:00:27 --> 00:00:29
			for those who don't know, doctor Ali Attai
		
00:00:29 --> 00:00:31
			is a scholar of biblical hermeneutics,
		
00:00:32 --> 00:00:34
			specializing in sacred languages,
		
00:00:34 --> 00:00:38
			comparative theology, and comparative literature at Tsuyta College.
		
00:00:38 --> 00:00:38
			CUNA College.
		
00:00:39 --> 00:00:42
			Today, he will be giving a presentation
		
00:00:42 --> 00:00:43
			titled
		
00:00:44 --> 00:00:45
			defending the Quran,
		
00:00:45 --> 00:00:47
			the Quran, and the apocryphal
		
00:00:47 --> 00:00:48
			gospels.
		
00:00:48 --> 00:00:48
			Inshallah.
		
00:00:49 --> 00:00:52
			This will be, part 2 of the Quran
		
00:00:52 --> 00:00:55
			series. We started last year with the preservation
		
00:00:55 --> 00:00:56
			of the Quran. Today,
		
00:00:57 --> 00:00:59
			doctor Ali Atay will answer the question.
		
00:01:00 --> 00:01:03
			Did the prophet plagiarize certain apocryphal Christian writings
		
00:01:04 --> 00:01:06
			that contain heretical christological
		
00:01:06 --> 00:01:07
			views?
		
00:01:08 --> 00:01:09
			And there will be, an examination
		
00:01:10 --> 00:01:13
			of what the Christian canon and apocryphal are,
		
00:01:14 --> 00:01:17
			who determined them, and when. So
		
00:01:18 --> 00:01:19
			over to you, sir.
		
00:01:20 --> 00:01:21
			Thank you so much.
		
00:01:22 --> 00:01:22
			Alright.
		
00:01:23 --> 00:01:24
			Yes.
		
00:01:24 --> 00:01:26
			So as you said, Paul, this is,
		
00:01:26 --> 00:01:27
			part 2,
		
00:01:30 --> 00:01:32
			of 2 of our Quran series, but section
		
00:01:32 --> 00:01:33
			1 of 2.
		
00:01:33 --> 00:01:34
			So part 1,
		
00:01:35 --> 00:01:37
			you said, was on the preservation of the
		
00:01:37 --> 00:01:38
			Quran. We did that about a year ago
		
00:01:38 --> 00:01:42
			or so. Yeah. Today, we start, part 2,
		
00:01:42 --> 00:01:44
			but we'll only cover section 1. So section
		
00:01:44 --> 00:01:46
			1 is called defending the Quran, as you
		
00:01:46 --> 00:01:48
			said, the Quran and the apocryphal gospels.
		
00:01:48 --> 00:01:51
			So in section 2, our next podcast, Insha'Allah,
		
00:01:52 --> 00:01:55
			we'll examine the Quran's engagement with Jewish texts
		
00:01:55 --> 00:01:57
			and traditions. So like the Tanaf, the Tanmud,
		
00:01:57 --> 00:01:58
			the Midrash,
		
00:01:58 --> 00:02:00
			as well as other traditions, like the Gurul
		
00:02:00 --> 00:02:02
			Qurnayn, things like that, etcetera.
		
00:02:05 --> 00:02:07
			So, yeah, so here is the,
		
00:02:09 --> 00:02:12
			the Christian polemicist and modern atheist claims, simply
		
00:02:12 --> 00:02:13
			put,
		
00:02:13 --> 00:02:15
			the prophet Muhammad, sallallahu alaihi wasallam, they don't
		
00:02:15 --> 00:02:17
			say sallallahu alaihi wasallam, but I'll say it,
		
00:02:17 --> 00:02:21
			plagiarized certain apocryphal Christian writings that heretical Christological
		
00:02:21 --> 00:02:23
			views when he composed the Quran,
		
00:02:24 --> 00:02:27
			which he claimed was a revelation from God.
		
00:02:27 --> 00:02:30
			So let's take a small step back.
		
00:02:31 --> 00:02:33
			1st of all, broadly speaking,
		
00:02:33 --> 00:02:36
			what is the Quran actually doing with the
		
00:02:36 --> 00:02:37
			Christian tradition?
		
00:02:38 --> 00:02:39
			Well, as I said in the last podcast,
		
00:02:39 --> 00:02:40
			the Quran,
		
00:02:40 --> 00:02:42
			tells us what it's doing. The Quran is
		
00:02:42 --> 00:02:43
			transparent.
		
00:02:43 --> 00:02:45
			We don't have to to guess.
		
00:02:45 --> 00:02:49
			The Quran acknowledges explicitly that it is confirming,
		
00:02:49 --> 00:02:50
			rejecting, and refining
		
00:02:50 --> 00:02:52
			major aspects of the Christian tradition.
		
00:02:54 --> 00:02:55
			The Quran refers it
		
00:02:55 --> 00:02:58
			refers to itself as a Muhammed. And Paul,
		
00:02:58 --> 00:03:00
			you asked me about this term way back,
		
00:03:00 --> 00:03:02
			I think, during our first podcast.
		
00:03:02 --> 00:03:04
			Muhammed is also one of the names of
		
00:03:04 --> 00:03:06
			God in the Quran, al Muhammed.
		
00:03:06 --> 00:03:07
			Muhammed means,
		
00:03:08 --> 00:03:10
			an overseer, a supervisor,
		
00:03:10 --> 00:03:11
			or master,
		
00:03:12 --> 00:03:14
			a final authority, right?
		
00:03:21 --> 00:03:23
			So the Quran says, we revealed the scripture
		
00:03:24 --> 00:03:26
			to you, O Muhammad Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam, in
		
00:03:26 --> 00:03:27
			truth as a confirmer
		
00:03:29 --> 00:03:31
			of what came before it from the previous
		
00:03:31 --> 00:03:32
			scriptures
		
00:03:32 --> 00:03:35
			and as a supreme authority over them.
		
00:03:39 --> 00:03:39
			So,
		
00:03:40 --> 00:03:42
			judge between them by what God has revealed.
		
00:03:43 --> 00:03:46
			And there are many other verses that explain
		
00:03:46 --> 00:03:47
			what the Quran is doing with Jewish and
		
00:03:47 --> 00:03:49
			Christian texts. So
		
00:03:49 --> 00:03:50
			there is confirmation,
		
00:03:51 --> 00:03:52
			there's correction,
		
00:03:52 --> 00:03:53
			and there's rejection
		
00:03:54 --> 00:03:55
			of Christian texts and tradition.
		
00:03:56 --> 00:03:58
			For example, after telling us about Jesus, peace
		
00:03:58 --> 00:04:00
			be upon him, after giving us
		
00:04:00 --> 00:04:01
			his status,
		
00:04:02 --> 00:04:03
			Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala says,
		
00:04:04 --> 00:04:06
			such was Jesus, the son of Mary.
		
00:04:09 --> 00:04:10
			The aforementioned
		
00:04:11 --> 00:04:14
			is the statement of truth about which they,
		
00:04:14 --> 00:04:17
			Jews and Christians, we can add atheists, are
		
00:04:17 --> 00:04:18
			disputing.
		
00:04:18 --> 00:04:21
			In other words, the aforementioned the aforementioned is
		
00:04:21 --> 00:04:22
			who Jesus really is.
		
00:04:23 --> 00:04:25
			A prophet of God, a servant of God,
		
00:04:25 --> 00:04:29
			etcetera. So the Quran engages in critical rewritings
		
00:04:29 --> 00:04:32
			of Judeo Christian tradition, specifically in this case,
		
00:04:32 --> 00:04:33
			a Christological
		
00:04:33 --> 00:04:34
			revision
		
00:04:35 --> 00:04:35
			or correction
		
00:04:36 --> 00:04:37
			of incarnationalist
		
00:04:38 --> 00:04:38
			Christianity.
		
00:04:39 --> 00:04:41
			In another verse, the Quran
		
00:04:42 --> 00:04:44
			says, right? Don't say 3.
		
00:04:45 --> 00:04:47
			You know, so here the Quran is
		
00:04:47 --> 00:04:49
			broad in its condemnation.
		
00:04:49 --> 00:04:51
			So don't say 3,
		
00:04:52 --> 00:04:53
			fill in the blank. 3 persons,
		
00:04:54 --> 00:04:55
			father, son, holy spirit,
		
00:04:56 --> 00:04:57
			like the the Catholics
		
00:04:58 --> 00:05:00
			and the later Eastern Orthodox and Protestants.
		
00:05:00 --> 00:05:02
			Father, son, mother, like the Coloridians.
		
00:05:03 --> 00:05:05
			Don't say 3 beings,
		
00:05:05 --> 00:05:07
			like many influential pre Islamic
		
00:05:08 --> 00:05:10
			Christian theologians, like John Philoponus
		
00:05:11 --> 00:05:12
			and many others.
		
00:05:13 --> 00:05:15
			Of course, modern Mormons are tritheistic.
		
00:05:16 --> 00:05:18
			The Godhead for them consists of 3 distinct
		
00:05:18 --> 00:05:19
			deities.
		
00:05:19 --> 00:05:22
			Don't say 3 modes like the modalist, the
		
00:05:22 --> 00:05:23
			Patri Pasyanists.
		
00:05:24 --> 00:05:25
			Don't say 3. Right? So,
		
00:05:26 --> 00:05:26
			of course,
		
00:05:27 --> 00:05:28
			critical scholars eventually
		
00:05:29 --> 00:05:30
			complied with the Quran.
		
00:05:31 --> 00:05:34
			The Johann and coma, right Yeah. From the
		
00:05:34 --> 00:05:35
			critical Greek text in 19
		
00:05:36 --> 00:05:39
			52, revised standard version. 1st John 5:7, that's
		
00:05:39 --> 00:05:40
			the that's the only verse, as you know,
		
00:05:40 --> 00:05:42
			in the in the New Testament that described
		
00:05:43 --> 00:05:44
			God as 3.
		
00:05:45 --> 00:05:46
			But, you know, better late than never, I
		
00:05:46 --> 00:05:47
			guess.
		
00:05:48 --> 00:05:50
			So this is this is a tweet from
		
00:05:50 --> 00:05:52
			doctor Khalil Andani that I wanted to share.
		
00:05:52 --> 00:05:53
			And, Paul, you actually shared it with this
		
00:05:53 --> 00:05:55
			with me a while back. I thought it
		
00:05:55 --> 00:05:58
			was a brilliant, response on his part. I
		
00:05:58 --> 00:05:59
			hope he doesn't mind.
		
00:06:00 --> 00:06:02
			Now obviously, I don't agree with doctor Andani
		
00:06:02 --> 00:06:03
			in many issues,
		
00:06:04 --> 00:06:06
			but I just love his response here to
		
00:06:06 --> 00:06:08
			a, a Christian critic
		
00:06:09 --> 00:06:09
			of the Quran
		
00:06:10 --> 00:06:12
			who accuses the author of the Quran of
		
00:06:12 --> 00:06:15
			basically doing a copy and paste job Mhmm.
		
00:06:15 --> 00:06:15
			Various
		
00:06:16 --> 00:06:19
			Christian texts and traditions, both canonical and apocryphal.
		
00:06:19 --> 00:06:20
			So I'll just read this. He said, I
		
00:06:20 --> 00:06:21
			concluded the opposite
		
00:06:22 --> 00:06:25
			Native and coherent in incorporation of biblical and
		
00:06:25 --> 00:06:26
			post biblical material
		
00:06:27 --> 00:06:28
			into an original
		
00:06:28 --> 00:06:30
			and critical theological narrative
		
00:06:31 --> 00:06:34
			indicates its author has a very deep and
		
00:06:34 --> 00:06:34
			sophisticated
		
00:06:34 --> 00:06:35
			knowledge
		
00:06:36 --> 00:06:39
			of biblical slash late antique religion and sources
		
00:06:39 --> 00:06:41
			akin to a library.
		
00:06:41 --> 00:06:43
			And and I have a hunch that John
		
00:06:43 --> 00:06:46
			Wansborough, right, the famous orientalist at SOAS, I
		
00:06:46 --> 00:06:48
			think he also noticed that it was basically
		
00:06:48 --> 00:06:51
			impossible for one unlettered man in the Arabian
		
00:06:51 --> 00:06:51
			Peninsula
		
00:06:52 --> 00:06:54
			to produce the text of the Quran in
		
00:06:54 --> 00:06:55
			the 7th century.
		
00:06:55 --> 00:06:58
			He proposed that there must have been, a,
		
00:06:58 --> 00:07:00
			I don't know, a council of some sort
		
00:07:00 --> 00:07:03
			of different editors in Iraq during the Abbasid
		
00:07:03 --> 00:07:04
			caliphate in the 8th century
		
00:07:05 --> 00:07:06
			that basically stitched
		
00:07:06 --> 00:07:09
			the Quran together using various different writings,
		
00:07:09 --> 00:07:11
			kind of like what the redactor did with
		
00:07:11 --> 00:07:12
			the Pentateuch,
		
00:07:12 --> 00:07:13
			according to Wellhausen,
		
00:07:14 --> 00:07:15
			according to the documentary
		
00:07:15 --> 00:07:17
			Hyper For me, so I'd interrupt your your
		
00:07:17 --> 00:07:19
			marvelous flow. But, I mean, at this point,
		
00:07:19 --> 00:07:21
			it's such a good one. I think that,
		
00:07:21 --> 00:07:24
			it is literally, in my view, for what
		
00:07:24 --> 00:07:25
			it's worth, impossible
		
00:07:25 --> 00:07:28
			for a man to have produced the Quran.
		
00:07:28 --> 00:07:30
			It has such nuance, such sophistication,
		
00:07:31 --> 00:07:35
			in its engagement with the biblical material,
		
00:07:35 --> 00:07:37
			in in a way that when we're beginning
		
00:07:37 --> 00:07:40
			to appreciate, it makes no sense historically at
		
00:07:40 --> 00:07:43
			all to attribute this to a man in
		
00:07:43 --> 00:07:44
			7th century Arabia.
		
00:07:45 --> 00:07:47
			It's it's it's it's beggars belief that it's
		
00:07:47 --> 00:07:49
			possible. It's not possible. And I think the
		
00:07:49 --> 00:07:51
			only thing stopping a certain scholars from acknowledging
		
00:07:51 --> 00:07:53
			that is is simply well, other reasons, shall
		
00:07:53 --> 00:07:55
			we say, but not the the technical point
		
00:07:55 --> 00:07:56
			is well made, I think.
		
00:07:57 --> 00:07:59
			Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's what that's
		
00:07:59 --> 00:08:01
			the conclusion Wandsborough came to. But then, of
		
00:08:01 --> 00:08:03
			course, with the recent discoveries of 7th century
		
00:08:03 --> 00:08:05
			Quran manuscripts that we talked about last time,
		
00:08:05 --> 00:08:08
			where the entire Quran is attested many times
		
00:08:08 --> 00:08:09
			over.
		
00:08:09 --> 00:08:10
			Yeah. Wansbrough was
		
00:08:11 --> 00:08:13
			definitively falsified after that point.
		
00:08:14 --> 00:08:16
			So so here's a question.
		
00:08:17 --> 00:08:20
			How is this different than literary mimesis? In
		
00:08:20 --> 00:08:21
			other words,
		
00:08:22 --> 00:08:24
			how is what the Quran is doing,
		
00:08:25 --> 00:08:28
			to Christian texts and traditions different than literary
		
00:08:28 --> 00:08:30
			mimesis? So just as a reminder,
		
00:08:30 --> 00:08:32
			during our last podcast about the crucifixion,
		
00:08:33 --> 00:08:35
			we said that the gospel writers such as
		
00:08:35 --> 00:08:38
			Mark are highly Hellenized, highly educated
		
00:08:39 --> 00:08:41
			Greek novelists and biographers. And they wrote according
		
00:08:41 --> 00:08:43
			to a well known flexible genre
		
00:08:43 --> 00:08:46
			of Greco Roman literature where textual menses was
		
00:08:46 --> 00:08:48
			standard. In other words, quite often,
		
00:08:48 --> 00:08:50
			the gospel writers borrowed
		
00:08:51 --> 00:08:53
			Jewish and Greek stories about other people like
		
00:08:53 --> 00:08:56
			Joseph or Odysseus or Dionysseus.
		
00:08:57 --> 00:08:59
			They tweaked these stories a bit, then replaced
		
00:08:59 --> 00:09:00
			the protagonist
		
00:09:01 --> 00:09:01
			with Jesus
		
00:09:02 --> 00:09:03
			or Paul in some cases.
		
00:09:04 --> 00:09:06
			So that is very different than what the
		
00:09:06 --> 00:09:09
			Quran is doing. The Quran says explicitly in
		
00:09:09 --> 00:09:09
			the
		
00:09:10 --> 00:09:12
			these are the true accounts.
		
00:09:12 --> 00:09:16
			The Quran isn't replacing people. It's correcting narrative.
		
00:09:16 --> 00:09:19
			Right? For example, the Quran is not saying,
		
00:09:19 --> 00:09:21
			you know, Jesus, peace be upon him, never
		
00:09:21 --> 00:09:22
			healed
		
00:09:22 --> 00:09:23
			the blind and lepers.
		
00:09:24 --> 00:09:25
			That was the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon
		
00:09:25 --> 00:09:28
			him. No. What the Quran is saying is
		
00:09:28 --> 00:09:30
			that Jesus never claimed to be divine.
		
00:09:30 --> 00:09:33
			Right? Now, to be fair, there are three
		
00:09:33 --> 00:09:34
			instances
		
00:09:34 --> 00:09:35
			where critical historians
		
00:09:36 --> 00:09:38
			do in fact contend that both the Bible
		
00:09:38 --> 00:09:39
			and Quran,
		
00:09:39 --> 00:09:42
			in their presentation of specific events,
		
00:09:43 --> 00:09:45
			replace antecedent figures with new protagonists.
		
00:09:47 --> 00:09:49
			These involve events in the lives of prophets
		
00:09:49 --> 00:09:50
			Noah, Moses, and Jesus.
		
00:09:51 --> 00:09:52
			So I'm only going to look at the
		
00:09:52 --> 00:09:55
			last one today, the miraculous birth of Jesus,
		
00:09:55 --> 00:09:57
			peace be upon him. The former 2, we'll
		
00:09:57 --> 00:09:57
			look,
		
00:09:58 --> 00:10:00
			at probably next time. But definitely next time
		
00:10:00 --> 00:10:02
			insha'Allah in section 2 of this course. Along
		
00:10:02 --> 00:10:03
			with some alleged
		
00:10:04 --> 00:10:06
			historical errors in the Quran that are repeated
		
00:10:06 --> 00:10:09
			ad nauseam by critics of the Quran.
		
00:10:09 --> 00:10:12
			But here's another question. What's the difference between
		
00:10:13 --> 00:10:15
			a critical rewriting and plagiarism?
		
00:10:16 --> 00:10:19
			So in the Quran, we have an Exodus
		
00:10:19 --> 00:10:22
			narrative. Right? The protagonist is Moses. Did the
		
00:10:22 --> 00:10:24
			author of the Quran plagiarize the story from
		
00:10:24 --> 00:10:26
			the Torah, from Exodus?
		
00:10:26 --> 00:10:28
			The answer is no. According to many critical
		
00:10:28 --> 00:10:31
			scholars of the Quran like Angelica Neuwirth or
		
00:10:31 --> 00:10:32
			the Corpus Coronica Project,
		
00:10:33 --> 00:10:35
			and I agree with this, the author of
		
00:10:35 --> 00:10:36
			the Quran
		
00:10:36 --> 00:10:39
			already assumes that you know the received biblical
		
00:10:39 --> 00:10:40
			tradition.
		
00:10:40 --> 00:10:42
			Okay. The Quran does not give us
		
00:10:43 --> 00:10:45
			the flood or exodus thinking that none of
		
00:10:45 --> 00:10:47
			its audience knows these stories.
		
00:10:48 --> 00:10:49
			The Quran assumes
		
00:10:49 --> 00:10:51
			what some scholars refer to as the full
		
00:10:51 --> 00:10:54
			knowing reader. So this is not plagiarism. This
		
00:10:54 --> 00:10:55
			is called a critical
		
00:10:56 --> 00:10:56
			rewriting.
		
00:10:57 --> 00:10:59
			And by the way, there is not a
		
00:10:59 --> 00:11:01
			single verse in the Quran that is identical
		
00:11:01 --> 00:11:02
			to a verse
		
00:11:02 --> 00:11:03
			in the Bible.
		
00:11:04 --> 00:11:06
			The Quran is restating relevant aspects of these
		
00:11:06 --> 00:11:08
			stories in its own words,
		
00:11:08 --> 00:11:09
			along with an unsurpassable
		
00:11:10 --> 00:11:10
			eloquence,
		
00:11:11 --> 00:11:13
			while also revising these stories for the sake
		
00:11:13 --> 00:11:14
			of correction
		
00:11:15 --> 00:11:16
			and in order to
		
00:11:16 --> 00:11:19
			draw out various ebar, which are, like, sort
		
00:11:19 --> 00:11:20
			of instructive
		
00:11:20 --> 00:11:21
			and transhistorical
		
00:11:21 --> 00:11:23
			lessons from the narrative. So I'll give you
		
00:11:23 --> 00:11:25
			a quick example of a Quranic
		
00:11:25 --> 00:11:26
			critical rewriting.
		
00:11:27 --> 00:11:29
			So when Mary, peace be upon her, asks
		
00:11:29 --> 00:11:31
			the angel how she can possibly have a
		
00:11:31 --> 00:11:32
			son,
		
00:11:32 --> 00:11:35
			the gospel of Luke and the Quran give
		
00:11:35 --> 00:11:36
			us 2 very different answers.
		
00:11:37 --> 00:11:39
			This is not because, know, the author of
		
00:11:39 --> 00:11:41
			the Quran just couldn't remember the right answer.
		
00:11:41 --> 00:11:43
			Right? Oh, what did Luke say?
		
00:11:44 --> 00:11:44
			Something up.
		
00:11:45 --> 00:11:47
			Right? No. This this difference is deliberate
		
00:11:48 --> 00:11:48
			and instructive.
		
00:11:49 --> 00:11:52
			The Quran purports to give us the true
		
00:11:52 --> 00:11:52
			answer
		
00:11:52 --> 00:11:55
			of of the angel to Mary's question. And
		
00:11:55 --> 00:11:57
			and we'll see that the angels answer in
		
00:11:57 --> 00:11:58
			the Quran
		
00:11:58 --> 00:12:00
			is much more contextually
		
00:12:00 --> 00:12:00
			coherent
		
00:12:01 --> 00:12:03
			than what Luke tells us. So more on
		
00:12:03 --> 00:12:05
			the virgin birth, later inshallah.
		
00:12:06 --> 00:12:07
			So plagiarism,
		
00:12:07 --> 00:12:09
			with all due respect, okay,
		
00:12:09 --> 00:12:12
			is most likely what Joseph Smith did with
		
00:12:12 --> 00:12:13
			the King James
		
00:12:13 --> 00:12:14
			version of the Bible.
		
00:12:15 --> 00:12:17
			So there are numerous quotes from Isaiah
		
00:12:18 --> 00:12:19
			in the Book of Mormon,
		
00:12:19 --> 00:12:22
			that are identical to the 17 69 King
		
00:12:22 --> 00:12:23
			James version.
		
00:12:24 --> 00:12:26
			This is just a fact. Now Mormons believe
		
00:12:26 --> 00:12:29
			that Joseph dictated the Book of Mormon by
		
00:12:29 --> 00:12:31
			putting a stone into his hat and then
		
00:12:31 --> 00:12:32
			burying his face,
		
00:12:33 --> 00:12:35
			into his hat. So in in the darkness
		
00:12:35 --> 00:12:36
			of his hat,
		
00:12:36 --> 00:12:38
			magical seer stone,
		
00:12:38 --> 00:12:41
			as they refer to it, would reveal the
		
00:12:41 --> 00:12:43
			translation of the golden plates in English.
		
00:12:44 --> 00:12:45
			The golden plates were written in a language
		
00:12:45 --> 00:12:46
			called reformed
		
00:12:47 --> 00:12:49
			Egyptian according to Smith by 2 Nephite prophet
		
00:12:49 --> 00:12:51
			historians named Mormon
		
00:12:51 --> 00:12:54
			and his son Moroni around 400 of the
		
00:12:54 --> 00:12:56
			common era, again, according to Smith.
		
00:12:56 --> 00:12:57
			So apparently,
		
00:12:57 --> 00:13:00
			it's just a big coincidence that dozens of
		
00:13:00 --> 00:13:00
			times,
		
00:13:01 --> 00:13:02
			dozens of times,
		
00:13:02 --> 00:13:06
			Smith's translation of Isaiah while peering into his
		
00:13:06 --> 00:13:08
			hat was verbatim identical
		
00:13:09 --> 00:13:11
			to the translation of Isaiah in the 17/69
		
00:13:12 --> 00:13:14
			King James version.
		
00:13:14 --> 00:13:16
			So this fact for me raises serious
		
00:13:16 --> 00:13:18
			doubts about Joseph's claim of prophecy.
		
00:13:19 --> 00:13:20
			Plagiarism,
		
00:13:21 --> 00:13:23
			with all due respect, is what Matthew and
		
00:13:23 --> 00:13:24
			Luke
		
00:13:24 --> 00:13:26
			did with respect to Mark and q.
		
00:13:27 --> 00:13:29
			Okay? Matthew and Luke copied extensively
		
00:13:30 --> 00:13:33
			from Mark and q verbatim, and both Matthew
		
00:13:33 --> 00:13:35
			and Luke did not expect that their gospels
		
00:13:36 --> 00:13:38
			would be read alongside Mark, their main source,
		
00:13:38 --> 00:13:39
			thus exposing
		
00:13:40 --> 00:13:40
			their plagiarism.
		
00:13:41 --> 00:13:43
			While the Quran expects you to know
		
00:13:44 --> 00:13:45
			how it is revising
		
00:13:46 --> 00:13:48
			the biblical stories. You know, if Matthew was
		
00:13:48 --> 00:13:49
			a college student in 2023,
		
00:13:50 --> 00:13:51
			you'd be expelled.
		
00:13:52 --> 00:13:55
			I mean, maybe maybe this type of copying
		
00:13:55 --> 00:13:58
			was accepted in the ancient Greco Roman world.
		
00:13:58 --> 00:14:00
			I doubt it. But even if it were
		
00:14:01 --> 00:14:02
			even if this was the case, it's still
		
00:14:02 --> 00:14:03
			plagiarism.
		
00:14:03 --> 00:14:04
			Now
		
00:14:04 --> 00:14:06
			sometimes Matthew does revise Mark,
		
00:14:07 --> 00:14:09
			but this doesn't help the confessional Christian who
		
00:14:09 --> 00:14:11
			believes that everything in these four gospels
		
00:14:12 --> 00:14:14
			is inspired by God, the Holy Spirit, the
		
00:14:14 --> 00:14:15
			3rd person of the trinity.
		
00:14:16 --> 00:14:16
			Matthew
		
00:14:16 --> 00:14:19
			revised Mark because he disagreed with Mark.
		
00:14:19 --> 00:14:22
			In other words, it certainly seems like Matthew,
		
00:14:23 --> 00:14:26
			think that Mark's gospel was inspired by God,
		
00:14:26 --> 00:14:28
			at least not all of it. Matthew was
		
00:14:28 --> 00:14:30
			confirming, rejecting, and refining,
		
00:14:30 --> 00:14:33
			just like the Quran is confirming, rejecting,
		
00:14:33 --> 00:14:36
			and refining. Matt although Matthew was also plagiarizing
		
00:14:37 --> 00:14:40
			at times, unlike the Quran. Right? So so
		
00:14:40 --> 00:14:41
			just as the Quran revises
		
00:14:42 --> 00:14:43
			the 4 gospels,
		
00:14:44 --> 00:14:46
			in a manner to establish its own Christological
		
00:14:47 --> 00:14:50
			voice, Matthew and Luke revised Mark to establish
		
00:14:50 --> 00:14:53
			their own Christological voices. The problem, however, is
		
00:14:53 --> 00:14:56
			that Christians believe that it's all canon.
		
00:14:57 --> 00:14:59
			So that's a problem. Right?
		
00:14:59 --> 00:15:01
			Now in a previous podcast,
		
00:15:02 --> 00:15:04
			we spoke about the preservation of the Quran.
		
00:15:04 --> 00:15:06
			Right? How the Quran came together as it
		
00:15:06 --> 00:15:08
			were starting with the 7 recitational variations,
		
00:15:09 --> 00:15:11
			the companion codices, the Uthmanic
		
00:15:12 --> 00:15:14
			codex committee, the 10 authorized reading traditions, the
		
00:15:14 --> 00:15:16
			manuscript evidence, etcetera, etcetera.
		
00:15:17 --> 00:15:19
			Now over the past year or so,
		
00:15:19 --> 00:15:22
			I've received multiple requests to do something similar
		
00:15:22 --> 00:15:23
			with the New Testament.
		
00:15:23 --> 00:15:25
			How did the New Testament come together?
		
00:15:26 --> 00:15:28
			And it just so happens that today's topic,
		
00:15:29 --> 00:15:31
			the Quran and the Apocryphal Gospels,
		
00:15:32 --> 00:15:34
			is directly related to the history of the
		
00:15:34 --> 00:15:37
			New Testament canon. So we can kill 2
		
00:15:37 --> 00:15:39
			birds with 1 stone. Okay? So so this
		
00:15:39 --> 00:15:41
			is not me taking pot shots at Christianity.
		
00:15:41 --> 00:15:44
			Right? The history of the New Testament canon
		
00:15:44 --> 00:15:45
			is directly related
		
00:15:45 --> 00:15:47
			to our topic. This is something we have
		
00:15:47 --> 00:15:48
			to cover.
		
00:15:54 --> 00:15:56
			So so here are some crucial
		
00:15:56 --> 00:15:58
			questions that we must at least attempt to
		
00:15:58 --> 00:15:59
			answer
		
00:16:00 --> 00:16:02
			before we can talk about the Quran's engagement
		
00:16:02 --> 00:16:06
			with apocryphal Christian text. What is the Christian
		
00:16:06 --> 00:16:06
			canon?
		
00:16:07 --> 00:16:09
			Who determined it and how? When was it
		
00:16:09 --> 00:16:10
			determined?
		
00:16:10 --> 00:16:14
			What is the Christian apocrypha? Who determined it
		
00:16:14 --> 00:16:14
			and how?
		
00:16:15 --> 00:16:16
			Is the author of the Quran
		
00:16:17 --> 00:16:20
			beholden to the judge judgments of the Catholic
		
00:16:20 --> 00:16:20
			church?
		
00:16:21 --> 00:16:24
			So, let's start with a seemingly simple question.
		
00:16:24 --> 00:16:25
			What is a Christian?
		
00:16:25 --> 00:16:27
			Now if I were to ask a Protestant
		
00:16:27 --> 00:16:28
			or a Catholic in 2023,
		
00:16:29 --> 00:16:30
			he might say that a Christian is someone
		
00:16:30 --> 00:16:31
			who believes
		
00:16:32 --> 00:16:34
			in the New Testament as being the inspired
		
00:16:34 --> 00:16:35
			word of God.
		
00:16:35 --> 00:16:38
			You know, that's that's not a sufficient condition
		
00:16:38 --> 00:16:39
			of Christian faith, would say, but it's a
		
00:16:39 --> 00:16:42
			good start. It's not sufficient because a Trinitarian
		
00:16:42 --> 00:16:44
			would argue that Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons also
		
00:16:44 --> 00:16:47
			affirm that the New Testament is the word
		
00:16:47 --> 00:16:48
			of God, yet they are not Christians
		
00:16:49 --> 00:16:51
			because their theology is heretical at least from
		
00:16:51 --> 00:16:53
			the perspective of a Trinitarian.
		
00:16:53 --> 00:16:55
			But even with this said, I think they
		
00:16:55 --> 00:16:58
			would say that a necessary condition of becoming
		
00:16:58 --> 00:16:58
			a Christian
		
00:16:59 --> 00:17:01
			is belief in the New Testament, excuse me,
		
00:17:01 --> 00:17:03
			New Testament canon of scripture.
		
00:17:04 --> 00:17:06
			And here it is, okay? So here are
		
00:17:06 --> 00:17:08
			the books of the New Testament canon and
		
00:17:08 --> 00:17:09
			their authors
		
00:17:09 --> 00:17:11
			according to the Christian faith tradition.
		
00:17:13 --> 00:17:14
			So
		
00:17:14 --> 00:17:15
			Matthew
		
00:17:16 --> 00:17:18
			wrote Matthew, Mark wrote Mark,
		
00:17:19 --> 00:17:20
			Luke wrote Luke, etcetera.
		
00:17:21 --> 00:17:23
			Now sometimes the book itself is named after
		
00:17:23 --> 00:17:24
			its author,
		
00:17:25 --> 00:17:27
			but most times not. So Acts was written
		
00:17:27 --> 00:17:29
			by Luke, Romans by Paul,
		
00:17:30 --> 00:17:30
			etcetera.
		
00:17:31 --> 00:17:32
			So these are the traditional
		
00:17:32 --> 00:17:33
			attributions.
		
00:17:34 --> 00:17:35
			Okay? As you can see, all books are
		
00:17:35 --> 00:17:36
			considered
		
00:17:37 --> 00:17:40
			apostolic, and I'll I'll define this term a
		
00:17:40 --> 00:17:40
			bit later,
		
00:17:41 --> 00:17:41
			inshallah.
		
00:17:43 --> 00:17:43
			Okay.
		
00:17:44 --> 00:17:45
			Now here
		
00:17:45 --> 00:17:47
			are the books of the New Testament canon
		
00:17:48 --> 00:17:50
			and their authorship according to the general consensus
		
00:17:51 --> 00:17:52
			of critical scholars.
		
00:17:53 --> 00:17:56
			So only 7 out of 27, barely 25
		
00:17:57 --> 00:17:59
			percent are correctly attributed to their authors. The
		
00:17:59 --> 00:18:01
			remaining books are either pseudepigraphal,
		
00:18:02 --> 00:18:04
			which literally means false writings, that is to
		
00:18:04 --> 00:18:05
			say forgeries,
		
00:18:06 --> 00:18:07
			or sued anonymous,
		
00:18:07 --> 00:18:10
			that is to say anonymous, but later attributed
		
00:18:10 --> 00:18:11
			to an early authority.
		
00:18:12 --> 00:18:13
			So look at the difference here. If we
		
00:18:13 --> 00:18:16
			just toggle back and forth, it's
		
00:18:16 --> 00:18:17
			quite
		
00:18:17 --> 00:18:18
			interesting.
		
00:18:18 --> 00:18:21
			According to the general consensus of critical scholars,
		
00:18:21 --> 00:18:23
			none of the 27 books of the New
		
00:18:23 --> 00:18:24
			Testament
		
00:18:24 --> 00:18:26
			were written by the 3 pillars, James, Peter,
		
00:18:26 --> 00:18:28
			or John. I mean, Paul calls them the
		
00:18:28 --> 00:18:30
			so called pillars. I mean, Paul obviously had
		
00:18:30 --> 00:18:31
			major issues with them.
		
00:18:32 --> 00:18:34
			The genuine Pauline corpus was written by self
		
00:18:34 --> 00:18:37
			proclaimed apostle of Jesus. Okay? Everyone agrees that
		
00:18:37 --> 00:18:40
			Paul never met Jesus of Nazareth. And I
		
00:18:40 --> 00:18:41
			would argue that there are good reasons to
		
00:18:41 --> 00:18:42
			doubt whether
		
00:18:42 --> 00:18:44
			Paul was ever commissioned by James,
		
00:18:44 --> 00:18:47
			to teach the gospel. So I recommend viewers
		
00:18:47 --> 00:18:48
			to watch our podcast that we did on
		
00:18:48 --> 00:18:50
			Paul versus James for more information.
		
00:18:51 --> 00:18:53
			So indeed, look at the difference. Right? It
		
00:18:54 --> 00:18:55
			it's a big difference.
		
00:18:55 --> 00:18:57
			So it's one of my teachers
		
00:18:57 --> 00:19:00
			in a short rhymed couple couplet, he said,
		
00:19:00 --> 00:19:02
			it's all Paul and Paul is all.
		
00:19:05 --> 00:19:07
			Alright. Moving on here. So so here's a
		
00:19:07 --> 00:19:08
			fact,
		
00:19:08 --> 00:19:10
			that may come as shocking.
		
00:19:11 --> 00:19:14
			The present 27 book New Testament was not
		
00:19:14 --> 00:19:14
			officially
		
00:19:15 --> 00:19:17
			and universally universally
		
00:19:17 --> 00:19:18
			declared
		
00:19:18 --> 00:19:19
			a closed canon
		
00:19:20 --> 00:19:21
			until the 16th century.
		
00:19:22 --> 00:19:24
			Okay. So this was after and in response
		
00:19:24 --> 00:19:25
			to the Protestant Reformation.
		
00:19:26 --> 00:19:28
			So that was a 1000 years after the
		
00:19:28 --> 00:19:30
			life of the prophet Muhammad Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam,
		
00:19:30 --> 00:19:31
			a 1000 years.
		
00:19:32 --> 00:19:34
			In the 16th century, the Latin Vulgate of
		
00:19:34 --> 00:19:36
			Jerome was declared absolutely
		
00:19:37 --> 00:19:38
			definitively authentic
		
00:19:39 --> 00:19:40
			by the Council of Trent.
		
00:19:41 --> 00:19:43
			The Council of Trent was the 19th
		
00:19:43 --> 00:19:46
			ecumenical council of the Roman Catholic church. Some
		
00:19:46 --> 00:19:47
			of the Protestant leaders
		
00:19:48 --> 00:19:50
			like, Martin Luther
		
00:19:50 --> 00:19:53
			were talking about forming a canon within a
		
00:19:53 --> 00:19:53
			canon.
		
00:19:53 --> 00:19:55
			So the Catholic church responded
		
00:19:56 --> 00:19:59
			by calling for this council. Okay. Ultimately, the
		
00:19:59 --> 00:19:59
			Protestants adopted
		
00:20:00 --> 00:20:02
			the New Testament canon, the Roman Catholic church.
		
00:20:02 --> 00:20:03
			You know, it's very interesting,
		
00:20:04 --> 00:20:05
			and a bit ironic
		
00:20:06 --> 00:20:08
			if you ask protestants at random
		
00:20:08 --> 00:20:09
			about the pope,
		
00:20:10 --> 00:20:12
			of the Catholic church, many of them will
		
00:20:12 --> 00:20:15
			say highly derogatory things,
		
00:20:16 --> 00:20:17
			even to the point
		
00:20:17 --> 00:20:19
			of calling the Catholic church,
		
00:20:19 --> 00:20:21
			the whore of Babylon and the the pope
		
00:20:21 --> 00:20:24
			is the antichrist. And it's crazy. I've heard
		
00:20:24 --> 00:20:25
			this many, many times personally.
		
00:20:26 --> 00:20:28
			And yet it was the Roman Catholic church
		
00:20:28 --> 00:20:30
			that determined the New Testament canon
		
00:20:31 --> 00:20:33
			that all Protestants read and revere
		
00:20:34 --> 00:20:35
			as the word of God.
		
00:20:36 --> 00:20:38
			So let me say it another way. Most
		
00:20:38 --> 00:20:39
			anti Muslim polemicists,
		
00:20:40 --> 00:20:42
			right, are not Catholic, but but some of
		
00:20:42 --> 00:20:44
			them are but most are not. And many
		
00:20:44 --> 00:20:46
			of these polemicists vehemently condemn
		
00:20:47 --> 00:20:48
			the Catholic
		
00:20:48 --> 00:20:50
			church. So not only are they anti Muslim,
		
00:20:50 --> 00:20:53
			they're anti Catholic. Yet if you ask a
		
00:20:53 --> 00:20:53
			non Catholic,
		
00:20:54 --> 00:20:54
			Christian,
		
00:20:55 --> 00:20:56
			why are there 27 books in the New
		
00:20:56 --> 00:20:57
			Testament?
		
00:20:58 --> 00:20:59
			They'll be forced to admit
		
00:21:00 --> 00:21:02
			if if they're honest because of the Catholic
		
00:21:02 --> 00:21:02
			church.
		
00:21:03 --> 00:21:04
			It's amazing.
		
00:21:04 --> 00:21:07
			Now the 1st Christian in history,
		
00:21:07 --> 00:21:08
			to suggest,
		
00:21:09 --> 00:21:12
			that is, recommend that Christians only read our
		
00:21:12 --> 00:21:14
			present 27 book canon
		
00:21:14 --> 00:21:15
			was Athanasius.
		
00:21:15 --> 00:21:17
			Okay. The Bishop of Alexandria
		
00:21:17 --> 00:21:18
			in 367
		
00:21:19 --> 00:21:20
			of the common era.
		
00:21:21 --> 00:21:22
			So so let me be clear here. Athanasius
		
00:21:23 --> 00:21:25
			was not the very first Christian
		
00:21:25 --> 00:21:27
			to propose a canon. As far as we
		
00:21:27 --> 00:21:29
			know, that was Marciones Sinope
		
00:21:29 --> 00:21:30
			who died in 160
		
00:21:31 --> 00:21:34
			common era, who only proposed 11 books. Right?
		
00:21:34 --> 00:21:36
			So some version of Luke and then 10
		
00:21:36 --> 00:21:37
			Pauline
		
00:21:37 --> 00:21:40
			epistles, including a Pauline epistle called,
		
00:21:41 --> 00:21:42
			Laodiceans.
		
00:21:43 --> 00:21:45
			Marcion's list is apparently not extent.
		
00:21:46 --> 00:21:48
			The oldest extent New Testament canon list is
		
00:21:48 --> 00:21:50
			called the moratorium canon,
		
00:21:50 --> 00:21:52
			which is probably mid second century.
		
00:21:53 --> 00:21:55
			The author or authors
		
00:21:55 --> 00:21:56
			reject Hebrews,
		
00:21:56 --> 00:21:57
			James,
		
00:21:58 --> 00:22:00
			1st and second Peter, and third John.
		
00:22:00 --> 00:22:03
			They accepted the wisdom of Solomon and the
		
00:22:03 --> 00:22:05
			apocalypse of Peter. So the moratorium canon was
		
00:22:05 --> 00:22:08
			very different than what Athanasius would later suggest.
		
00:22:08 --> 00:22:11
			Athanasius in the 4th century was the first
		
00:22:11 --> 00:22:12
			to propose our present
		
00:22:12 --> 00:22:14
			27 books, Matthew to Revelation,
		
00:22:15 --> 00:22:17
			20 of which, as we saw, were either
		
00:22:17 --> 00:22:20
			forged or far off or falsely attributed to
		
00:22:20 --> 00:22:22
			their authors by ecclesiastical,
		
00:22:23 --> 00:22:23
			authorities.
		
00:22:23 --> 00:22:26
			So Athanasius said, in these alone, the teaching
		
00:22:26 --> 00:22:28
			of godliness is proclaimed.
		
00:22:29 --> 00:22:32
			So that's one man's opinion. Athanasius was also
		
00:22:32 --> 00:22:34
			famous, or maybe we should say infamous for
		
00:22:34 --> 00:22:36
			his support of Hamausian
		
00:22:36 --> 00:22:36
			Christology,
		
00:22:38 --> 00:22:39
			that won the day at the Council of
		
00:22:39 --> 00:22:42
			Nicaea in 325 CE. So that was the
		
00:22:42 --> 00:22:42
			first ecumenical
		
00:22:43 --> 00:22:45
			church council. In other words, he championed the
		
00:22:45 --> 00:22:48
			belief that the Son of God was literally
		
00:22:48 --> 00:22:48
			the same being,
		
00:22:49 --> 00:22:51
			as the father. Right? So hamausios
		
00:22:52 --> 00:22:53
			means same essence.
		
00:22:54 --> 00:22:56
			So this is same essence Christology. The father
		
00:22:56 --> 00:22:57
			and the son are ontologically
		
00:22:58 --> 00:23:00
			equal. In fact, they're one and the same
		
00:23:00 --> 00:23:00
			being.
		
00:23:01 --> 00:23:03
			So not quite yet the Trinity, but we're
		
00:23:03 --> 00:23:07
			getting there. Now contrary to popular perception,
		
00:23:07 --> 00:23:08
			the Council of Nicaea
		
00:23:09 --> 00:23:11
			had nothing to do with the New Testament
		
00:23:11 --> 00:23:12
			canon.
		
00:23:12 --> 00:23:15
			Okay, this is the claim of Dan Brown.
		
00:23:16 --> 00:23:20
			His fiction book kind of popularized this claim.
		
00:23:20 --> 00:23:21
			You know, actually,
		
00:23:22 --> 00:23:22
			Voltaire
		
00:23:23 --> 00:23:25
			made this claim in the 18th century
		
00:23:25 --> 00:23:26
			in his
		
00:23:26 --> 00:23:27
			dictionary philosophique.
		
00:23:27 --> 00:23:29
			Right? He said that the council,
		
00:23:30 --> 00:23:31
			the council stacked,
		
00:23:32 --> 00:23:34
			you know, these these books
		
00:23:34 --> 00:23:36
			on an altar and the books that fell
		
00:23:36 --> 00:23:37
			to the ground
		
00:23:37 --> 00:23:40
			rejected. Right? So this is a legend. Nicea
		
00:23:40 --> 00:23:42
			did not touch the issue of the canon.
		
00:23:42 --> 00:23:44
			Constantine did not touch the issue
		
00:23:45 --> 00:23:45
			of the canon.
		
00:23:46 --> 00:23:48
			There were around 30 to 40 gospels of
		
00:23:48 --> 00:23:51
			Jesus written during the early Christian period,
		
00:23:51 --> 00:23:53
			but Nicea had nothing to do with them,
		
00:23:54 --> 00:23:54
			whatsoever.
		
00:23:56 --> 00:23:57
			Now in 393
		
00:23:58 --> 00:24:00
			CE, okay, about 30 years after Athanasius
		
00:24:01 --> 00:24:04
			wrote his recommended reading list, a small council,
		
00:24:05 --> 00:24:07
			a a small local council called the Synod
		
00:24:07 --> 00:24:09
			at Hippo was held in North Africa,
		
00:24:09 --> 00:24:11
			which ratified Athanasius' choices.
		
00:24:12 --> 00:24:14
			And none other than Augustine of Hippo pushed
		
00:24:14 --> 00:24:17
			hard for its acceptance as well. Of course,
		
00:24:17 --> 00:24:17
			Augustine
		
00:24:17 --> 00:24:19
			was the author of the famous De Trinitate,
		
00:24:20 --> 00:24:22
			the Trinity. So he's considered
		
00:24:22 --> 00:24:23
			probably the greatest
		
00:24:23 --> 00:24:26
			theologian in the Latin tradition until Aquinas.
		
00:24:26 --> 00:24:28
			But the Synod at Hippo was not an
		
00:24:28 --> 00:24:29
			ecumenical council.
		
00:24:30 --> 00:24:32
			Right? It was not a universal council.
		
00:24:33 --> 00:24:35
			So there was still major difference of opinion
		
00:24:35 --> 00:24:37
			among Christians the world over
		
00:24:38 --> 00:24:40
			with respect to the canon of scripture.
		
00:24:40 --> 00:24:42
			The synod at Hippo was in no way
		
00:24:42 --> 00:24:42
			universally
		
00:24:43 --> 00:24:43
			binding.
		
00:24:44 --> 00:24:45
			The Council of Trent
		
00:24:46 --> 00:24:49
			held about 1200 years later was universally binding.
		
00:24:49 --> 00:24:50
			Well, at least it was
		
00:24:50 --> 00:24:53
			supposed to be. So the point is Athanasius
		
00:24:53 --> 00:24:55
			did not settle the canon.
		
00:24:55 --> 00:24:57
			Right? This is another misconception
		
00:24:57 --> 00:24:59
			about the New Testament canon.
		
00:24:59 --> 00:25:02
			Neither Nicea nor Athanasius nor Hippo settled the
		
00:25:02 --> 00:25:05
			canon. Now Bart Ehrman, who is currently actually
		
00:25:05 --> 00:25:06
			contemplating a book on this very topic,
		
00:25:07 --> 00:25:08
			because he gets so many questions about the
		
00:25:08 --> 00:25:09
			canon,
		
00:25:09 --> 00:25:11
			he actually wrote his doctoral dissertation
		
00:25:12 --> 00:25:15
			on someone called Didymus the blind. So So
		
00:25:15 --> 00:25:17
			Didymus the blind was a theologian
		
00:25:18 --> 00:25:18
			in Alexandria,
		
00:25:19 --> 00:25:20
			where he taught for about 50 years.
		
00:25:21 --> 00:25:23
			He died in like 398 of the common
		
00:25:23 --> 00:25:23
			era.
		
00:25:24 --> 00:25:26
			And the canon of dynamis the blind was
		
00:25:26 --> 00:25:28
			different than the canon of Athanasius.
		
00:25:29 --> 00:25:31
			So he and Athanasius were living at the
		
00:25:31 --> 00:25:32
			same time and in the same city,
		
00:25:33 --> 00:25:35
			same time, same city, different canons.
		
00:25:36 --> 00:25:37
			Okay? Didymus is similar
		
00:25:38 --> 00:25:40
			to Arius in this regard, like Arius and
		
00:25:40 --> 00:25:40
			Athanasius
		
00:25:41 --> 00:25:43
			were living at the same time, same city,
		
00:25:43 --> 00:25:46
			but espoused vastly different Christologies, right?
		
00:25:47 --> 00:25:49
			But back to Didymus. So Didymus included in
		
00:25:49 --> 00:25:50
			his canon,
		
00:25:50 --> 00:25:51
			the shepherd of Hermes
		
00:25:52 --> 00:25:54
			and the epistle of Barnabas,
		
00:25:54 --> 00:25:56
			and also said that 2nd Peter was a
		
00:25:56 --> 00:25:57
			forgery.
		
00:25:57 --> 00:25:59
			So did was right about that. But as
		
00:25:59 --> 00:26:01
			it turned out, a lot more than second
		
00:26:01 --> 00:26:02
			Peter,
		
00:26:02 --> 00:26:03
			was forged.
		
00:26:03 --> 00:26:04
			Now
		
00:26:04 --> 00:26:07
			there is a popular claim among Christian apologists
		
00:26:07 --> 00:26:09
			that the New Testament canon was actually settled
		
00:26:09 --> 00:26:10
			and agreed upon
		
00:26:11 --> 00:26:12
			before Athanasius,
		
00:26:12 --> 00:26:15
			in fact, in the 2nd century. So this
		
00:26:15 --> 00:26:17
			is what we often are told by Krishna.
		
00:26:18 --> 00:26:20
			So forget about Athanasius or the sin out
		
00:26:20 --> 00:26:22
			of Hippo. It happened in the 2nd century.
		
00:26:23 --> 00:26:25
			So this is absolutely false. This is demonstrably
		
00:26:25 --> 00:26:26
			not true.
		
00:26:26 --> 00:26:28
			This claim is even worse than Dan Brown's
		
00:26:28 --> 00:26:30
			claim about Nicaea. And of course, Dan Brown's
		
00:26:30 --> 00:26:31
			claim is fiction.
		
00:26:32 --> 00:26:34
			In the 2nd century, the early church fathers
		
00:26:34 --> 00:26:35
			and heresiologists
		
00:26:36 --> 00:26:39
			like the authors of the moratorium canon,
		
00:26:40 --> 00:26:43
			certainly had their preferences. Okay. And there was
		
00:26:43 --> 00:26:44
			much debate,
		
00:26:44 --> 00:26:45
			but nothing was settled.
		
00:26:46 --> 00:26:49
			Okay. Nothing. Again, nothing was officially
		
00:26:49 --> 00:26:50
			and universally
		
00:26:51 --> 00:26:53
			settled until about 500 years ago,
		
00:26:54 --> 00:26:57
			1000 years after Islam, 1000 years after
		
00:26:58 --> 00:27:00
			Islam until we get official
		
00:27:01 --> 00:27:02
			Canon and Apocrypha.
		
00:27:02 --> 00:27:05
			Okay. So for the early proto orthodox authorities,
		
00:27:06 --> 00:27:08
			in order for a particular book to be
		
00:27:08 --> 00:27:10
			considered true and authentic,
		
00:27:10 --> 00:27:13
			okay, it had to be basically three things.
		
00:27:13 --> 00:27:14
			Some say 4, but 2 of them can
		
00:27:14 --> 00:27:17
			be collapsed into 1. So
		
00:27:17 --> 00:27:17
			apostolic,
		
00:27:18 --> 00:27:19
			Catholic and Orthodox.
		
00:27:20 --> 00:27:22
			So what does apostolic mean?
		
00:27:23 --> 00:27:25
			Apostolic means that it was written by an
		
00:27:25 --> 00:27:27
			apostle of Jesus, either a direct disciple
		
00:27:28 --> 00:27:30
			or a disciple of a disciple. Right? So
		
00:27:30 --> 00:27:31
			it needed to be connected
		
00:27:31 --> 00:27:33
			to one of Jesus's closest, followers.
		
00:27:34 --> 00:27:36
			What does Catholic mean? So Catholic doesn't mean
		
00:27:36 --> 00:27:37
			Roman Catholic
		
00:27:38 --> 00:27:40
			in this context. Okay? It means, you know,
		
00:27:40 --> 00:27:44
			general or popular, well read by many Christians.
		
00:27:44 --> 00:27:46
			And finally, what does Orthodox mean?
		
00:27:47 --> 00:27:48
			Orthodox means
		
00:27:49 --> 00:27:52
			in agreement with their theology, the theology of
		
00:27:52 --> 00:27:55
			the proto orthodox. In other words, in line
		
00:27:55 --> 00:27:56
			with the Pauline Christianity
		
00:27:57 --> 00:27:57
			that would eventually
		
00:27:58 --> 00:28:00
			crystallize as full blown Trinitarianism.
		
00:28:02 --> 00:28:04
			Now, the majority of Christians in the 2nd
		
00:28:04 --> 00:28:05
			3rd centuries,
		
00:28:06 --> 00:28:07
			the majority of those who believe that Jesus
		
00:28:07 --> 00:28:09
			was a messianic figure
		
00:28:09 --> 00:28:10
			were proto Orthodox
		
00:28:11 --> 00:28:12
			because of Paul of Tarsus
		
00:28:13 --> 00:28:15
			relentless and unauthorized
		
00:28:15 --> 00:28:18
			evangelizing in the Greco Roman world.
		
00:28:18 --> 00:28:20
			And of course, there was not universal agreement
		
00:28:20 --> 00:28:21
			even among the proto orthodox
		
00:28:22 --> 00:28:24
			about which books were in and which books
		
00:28:24 --> 00:28:25
			were out. As I said earlier,
		
00:28:26 --> 00:28:29
			Didymus the blind was proto orthodox. Eusebius of
		
00:28:29 --> 00:28:30
			Caesarea,
		
00:28:30 --> 00:28:33
			who was present at Nicaea with Athanasius.
		
00:28:33 --> 00:28:36
			He disputed James and second Peter
		
00:28:36 --> 00:28:39
			and second and third John and Jude and
		
00:28:39 --> 00:28:39
			Revelation.
		
00:28:40 --> 00:28:41
			And he accepted the shepherd of Hermas.
		
00:28:42 --> 00:28:45
			There there was another local council in 3/64,
		
00:28:46 --> 00:28:48
			of the common era called the Council of
		
00:28:49 --> 00:28:51
			Laodicea. This was in Turkey. This is before
		
00:28:51 --> 00:28:54
			Hippo that completely rejected the book of Revelation.
		
00:28:54 --> 00:28:56
			They thought it was a total forgery.
		
00:28:58 --> 00:29:00
			So Jesus saying on the alpha and the
		
00:29:00 --> 00:29:03
			omega, that's apparently a total forgery according to
		
00:29:03 --> 00:29:04
			the bishops that were present at that local
		
00:29:04 --> 00:29:07
			council in Turkey. But here's the weird thing
		
00:29:07 --> 00:29:10
			about how the proto orthodox authenticated their books.
		
00:29:10 --> 00:29:12
			So generally, if they deemed a certain book
		
00:29:12 --> 00:29:13
			to be orthodox,
		
00:29:14 --> 00:29:17
			right, that is an agreement with their theology,
		
00:29:17 --> 00:29:19
			then it was declared apostolic.
		
00:29:19 --> 00:29:22
			So the gospel of Matthew agreed with their
		
00:29:22 --> 00:29:22
			theology,
		
00:29:23 --> 00:29:25
			and it was quite popular. Therefore, it must
		
00:29:25 --> 00:29:26
			have been written by an apostle.
		
00:29:27 --> 00:29:28
			So Matthew.
		
00:29:28 --> 00:29:29
			Yes, Matthew.
		
00:29:30 --> 00:29:32
			Now this is a bit tangential,
		
00:29:33 --> 00:29:35
			but, I wanna say a few things about
		
00:29:35 --> 00:29:37
			Matthew's gospel just to clarify something.
		
00:29:38 --> 00:29:41
			Muslim apologists are quick to point out that
		
00:29:41 --> 00:29:44
			the Methian Jesus was a practicing rabbi who
		
00:29:44 --> 00:29:46
			said that as long as heaven and earth
		
00:29:46 --> 00:29:47
			endure, not a jot or a tittle shall
		
00:29:47 --> 00:29:49
			pass by the law until all is fulfilled.
		
00:29:49 --> 00:29:51
			He said that the disciples'
		
00:29:51 --> 00:29:53
			adherence to the law
		
00:29:53 --> 00:29:54
			must be greater,
		
00:29:55 --> 00:29:56
			than even that of the scribes and the
		
00:29:56 --> 00:29:57
			Pharisees.
		
00:29:57 --> 00:29:59
			He said that he was only sent to
		
00:29:59 --> 00:30:00
			the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
		
00:30:00 --> 00:30:03
			How do these things agree with Paul's teaching?
		
00:30:03 --> 00:30:05
			And the answer is they don't. Right? They
		
00:30:05 --> 00:30:06
			don't agree.
		
00:30:07 --> 00:30:09
			There are indeed individual teachings of Jesus
		
00:30:10 --> 00:30:11
			recorded in Matthew,
		
00:30:11 --> 00:30:13
			recorded by Matthew, the evangelist,
		
00:30:13 --> 00:30:15
			that conflict with Paul.
		
00:30:15 --> 00:30:18
			Matthew chapter 7 verses 21 to 23
		
00:30:19 --> 00:30:22
			is probably the best example when Jesus clearly
		
00:30:22 --> 00:30:23
			condemns antinomian
		
00:30:23 --> 00:30:25
			Christians or Christians who reject
		
00:30:25 --> 00:30:27
			the nomos, the Torah.
		
00:30:27 --> 00:30:30
			So this begs a question, why then did
		
00:30:30 --> 00:30:33
			the proto orthodox canonize this gospel? Good question.
		
00:30:34 --> 00:30:36
			Yeah. Well, if you look at the gospel
		
00:30:36 --> 00:30:37
			holistically,
		
00:30:38 --> 00:30:41
			by gospel's end, it actually comes to agree
		
00:30:41 --> 00:30:42
			with Paul.
		
00:30:42 --> 00:30:44
			Okay. The gospel of Matthew ends up vindicating
		
00:30:45 --> 00:30:47
			Paul. So Christian apologists appeal to what's known
		
00:30:47 --> 00:30:49
			as the continuity argument.
		
00:30:50 --> 00:30:52
			Okay? That there is direct continuity
		
00:30:52 --> 00:30:53
			between
		
00:30:54 --> 00:30:57
			the Methian Jesus and Paul, that before his
		
00:30:57 --> 00:30:59
			death, Jesus was teaching one soteriology,
		
00:31:00 --> 00:31:02
			one way of salvation. But then after his
		
00:31:02 --> 00:31:03
			death, he was teaching another soteriology
		
00:31:04 --> 00:31:06
			through Paul, his chosen apostle.
		
00:31:06 --> 00:31:09
			But this shift is actually announced at the
		
00:31:09 --> 00:31:12
			Last Supper, when the Methion Jesus establishes a
		
00:31:12 --> 00:31:14
			new covenant or New Testament in his flesh
		
00:31:14 --> 00:31:15
			and blood
		
00:31:17 --> 00:31:20
			So Matthew presents Jesus as speaking out of
		
00:31:20 --> 00:31:21
			both sides of his mouth.
		
00:31:21 --> 00:31:24
			However, I agree with with Ehrman here, who
		
00:31:24 --> 00:31:27
			does not affirm continuity between Paul and the
		
00:31:27 --> 00:31:30
			methean Jesus prior to the last supper scene.
		
00:31:31 --> 00:31:34
			In other words, Paul and Jesus are actually
		
00:31:34 --> 00:31:34
			irreconcilable.
		
00:31:36 --> 00:31:40
			For example, in Matthew 19, Jesus defines salvation
		
00:31:41 --> 00:31:42
			in very clear terms.
		
00:31:43 --> 00:31:45
			Okay. He says, he defines it as following
		
00:31:45 --> 00:31:46
			the commandments.
		
00:31:47 --> 00:31:48
			But if you want to be perfect,
		
00:31:49 --> 00:31:50
			then sell what you own and give it
		
00:31:50 --> 00:31:52
			to the poor, and you will be given
		
00:31:52 --> 00:31:55
			treasures in heaven. Okay. So the essence of
		
00:31:55 --> 00:31:56
			the gospel,
		
00:31:57 --> 00:32:00
			the key to salvation according to Jesus is
		
00:32:00 --> 00:32:02
			obeying God's commandments and taking care of people,
		
00:32:02 --> 00:32:05
			serving people who need help. This is not
		
00:32:05 --> 00:32:07
			how Paul defines salvation.
		
00:32:07 --> 00:32:09
			So this is how Ehrman puts it.
		
00:32:10 --> 00:32:13
			If if the Jesus of Matthew is right
		
00:32:13 --> 00:32:16
			and salvation is through adherence to the commandments
		
00:32:16 --> 00:32:17
			and giving charity,
		
00:32:19 --> 00:32:21
			exactly what the Quran says about Jesus, I
		
00:32:21 --> 00:32:24
			might add. If Jesus is right, then there
		
00:32:24 --> 00:32:25
			is no need whatsoever
		
00:32:26 --> 00:32:27
			for Jesus to die.
		
00:32:28 --> 00:32:30
			If Jesus is right, there is no need
		
00:32:30 --> 00:32:32
			whatsoever for him to die.
		
00:32:33 --> 00:32:35
			So in my view, Paul believed a rumor
		
00:32:35 --> 00:32:37
			that Jesus had died by crucifixion,
		
00:32:38 --> 00:32:41
			and then was seen after his supposed death.
		
00:32:41 --> 00:32:43
			And I think Jesus was seen, but that
		
00:32:43 --> 00:32:45
			was because he never died. But in Paul's
		
00:32:45 --> 00:32:48
			mind, Jesus died as a divine savior. So
		
00:32:48 --> 00:32:50
			Paul reasoned that
		
00:32:50 --> 00:32:52
			it must then be impossible
		
00:32:53 --> 00:32:54
			to keep the law.
		
00:32:55 --> 00:32:56
			Therefore, we need a human sacrifice
		
00:32:58 --> 00:33:01
			and that forgiveness is only achieved if blood
		
00:33:01 --> 00:33:04
			is shed. So these are just, you know,
		
00:33:04 --> 00:33:05
			just compounded mistakes
		
00:33:06 --> 00:33:08
			that Paul made. This is partly why I
		
00:33:08 --> 00:33:09
			don't believe
		
00:33:09 --> 00:33:11
			Paul when he claimed to be a Pharisee.
		
00:33:11 --> 00:33:12
			So
		
00:33:12 --> 00:33:14
			here on the slide, you know, can someone
		
00:33:14 --> 00:33:16
			be put to death for someone else's sin?
		
00:33:16 --> 00:33:19
			The answer is no, according to the Torah.
		
00:33:19 --> 00:33:21
			Is it impossible to keep the law?
		
00:33:21 --> 00:33:24
			No. According to Deuteronomy chapter 30.
		
00:33:25 --> 00:33:27
			Is is blood necessary for forgiveness?
		
00:33:28 --> 00:33:30
			No. Look at Psalm 51. Look at 2nd
		
00:33:30 --> 00:33:32
			Chronicles. So so, essentially, what Matthew wanted to
		
00:33:32 --> 00:33:34
			do at the end of his gospel
		
00:33:34 --> 00:33:37
			was try to reconcile Jesus' teachings with Paul.
		
00:33:38 --> 00:33:41
			Okay. So Matthew at times recorded what likely
		
00:33:41 --> 00:33:43
			seemed to be authentic teachings of Jesus.
		
00:33:44 --> 00:33:46
			But Matthew was ultimately a Pauline Christian. So
		
00:33:46 --> 00:33:47
			Matthew had to harmonize
		
00:33:48 --> 00:33:49
			Jesus with Paul.
		
00:33:50 --> 00:33:53
			Therefore, for Matthew, the Last Supper is the
		
00:33:53 --> 00:33:54
			seminal event
		
00:33:54 --> 00:33:56
			during which there is an essential switch in
		
00:33:56 --> 00:33:57
			soteriology.
		
00:33:58 --> 00:34:00
			But it doesn't work. But but one is
		
00:34:00 --> 00:34:03
			one is why for Matthew, Jesus bothers to
		
00:34:03 --> 00:34:03
			go around
		
00:34:04 --> 00:34:06
			for 1, 2, 3 years preaching the the
		
00:34:06 --> 00:34:07
			gospel,
		
00:34:07 --> 00:34:10
			this detailed teaching, simply to
		
00:34:10 --> 00:34:12
			render it null and void at the last
		
00:34:12 --> 00:34:14
			supper. I mean, why did he he should
		
00:34:14 --> 00:34:16
			just parachute it down straight onto the cross
		
00:34:16 --> 00:34:18
			perhaps. It would have been slightly more efficient
		
00:34:18 --> 00:34:18
			way of doing it.
		
00:34:19 --> 00:34:21
			Yeah. Exactly. If again, if Jesus has very
		
00:34:21 --> 00:34:24
			clear definition of salvation in Matthew 19 is
		
00:34:24 --> 00:34:26
			true, if he's telling us the truth here,
		
00:34:27 --> 00:34:28
			then then there is no reason for him
		
00:34:28 --> 00:34:31
			to die. And so Paul's entire theology collapses.
		
00:34:31 --> 00:34:33
			It falls to the ground. So I want
		
00:34:33 --> 00:34:35
			people to imagine this. Okay? So I wanna
		
00:34:35 --> 00:34:38
			demonstrate how Paul how different Paul and Jesus
		
00:34:38 --> 00:34:39
			really were.
		
00:34:39 --> 00:34:42
			So imagine this. So Jesus, peace be upon
		
00:34:42 --> 00:34:43
			him, as you said, was, you know, walking
		
00:34:43 --> 00:34:44
			around Palestine,
		
00:34:45 --> 00:34:47
			for 1 to 3 years teaching Jews that
		
00:34:47 --> 00:34:49
			their salvation lies
		
00:34:49 --> 00:34:51
			in adherence to the commandments
		
00:34:51 --> 00:34:52
			and being charitable.
		
00:34:53 --> 00:34:55
			Serve God, serve humanity, and God will save
		
00:34:55 --> 00:34:57
			your soul. This is salvation. This is the
		
00:34:57 --> 00:35:00
			gospel. Yep. Right? It's conceivable that 1,000 of
		
00:35:00 --> 00:35:01
			Jews
		
00:35:01 --> 00:35:04
			heard this teaching directly from Jesus in Galilee
		
00:35:04 --> 00:35:05
			and Judea.
		
00:35:05 --> 00:35:07
			Now the majority of Jews,
		
00:35:08 --> 00:35:09
			did not live in Palestine at the time
		
00:35:09 --> 00:35:10
			of Jesus.
		
00:35:10 --> 00:35:12
			So let's imagine that in the year 32
		
00:35:12 --> 00:35:13
			or something,
		
00:35:14 --> 00:35:17
			a 100 Jews, specifically from Corinth, let's say,
		
00:35:17 --> 00:35:18
			met
		
00:35:18 --> 00:35:21
			Rabbi Jesus and his disciples in Jerusalem
		
00:35:21 --> 00:35:22
			during the pilgrimage.
		
00:35:23 --> 00:35:25
			And they were told by Jesus himself that
		
00:35:25 --> 00:35:27
			if they wanted to attain salvation,
		
00:35:27 --> 00:35:29
			they needed to follow the commandments
		
00:35:29 --> 00:35:30
			and give charity.
		
00:35:31 --> 00:35:31
			Okay?
		
00:35:32 --> 00:35:34
			These Jews then returned to Corinth
		
00:35:35 --> 00:35:36
			and transmitted
		
00:35:36 --> 00:35:39
			what they had heard directly from Jesus to
		
00:35:39 --> 00:35:40
			other Jews in Corinth.
		
00:35:40 --> 00:35:42
			Now fast forward 10 to 20 years.
		
00:35:42 --> 00:35:45
			One day, an amateur philosopher and traveling tent
		
00:35:45 --> 00:35:45
			maker
		
00:35:46 --> 00:35:48
			named Paul of Tarsus shows up in Corinth
		
00:35:49 --> 00:35:50
			and tells the Corinthians,
		
00:35:50 --> 00:35:51
			Jews and pagans,
		
00:35:52 --> 00:35:54
			that Jesus died on a Roman cross
		
00:35:54 --> 00:35:56
			as a human sacrifice
		
00:35:56 --> 00:35:59
			and that their salvation depended upon believing
		
00:35:59 --> 00:36:02
			that Jesus was a divine son of God
		
00:36:02 --> 00:36:04
			who vicariously atoned for their sins.
		
00:36:05 --> 00:36:05
			Okay?
		
00:36:06 --> 00:36:07
			Now imagine
		
00:36:07 --> 00:36:09
			that 50 of those,
		
00:36:10 --> 00:36:11
			Corinthian Jews,
		
00:36:11 --> 00:36:14
			who had met the historical Jesus and his
		
00:36:14 --> 00:36:14
			disciples
		
00:36:15 --> 00:36:17
			came out and debated Paul. I mean, can
		
00:36:17 --> 00:36:19
			you imagine that someone should make a movie
		
00:36:19 --> 00:36:21
			about that? They would have asked Paul,
		
00:36:21 --> 00:36:23
			where did he get his teaching from? And
		
00:36:23 --> 00:36:24
			Paul would have said that, you know, he
		
00:36:24 --> 00:36:26
			had a vision of the resurrected Jesus and
		
00:36:26 --> 00:36:28
			that Jesus himself revealed these things to him.
		
00:36:29 --> 00:36:31
			His Jewish opponents who would have
		
00:36:32 --> 00:36:34
			believed in visions and theophanies, that was part
		
00:36:34 --> 00:36:35
			of their worldview.
		
00:36:35 --> 00:36:38
			Right? They would have said, okay, but that's
		
00:36:38 --> 00:36:39
			a little strange,
		
00:36:40 --> 00:36:42
			because we met Jesus in person.
		
00:36:43 --> 00:36:45
			And he said nothing like that. We met
		
00:36:45 --> 00:36:47
			him in person. We knew him. Besides, everyone
		
00:36:47 --> 00:36:49
			knows that James is now the leader of
		
00:36:49 --> 00:36:51
			the movement in Jerusalem. Do you have a
		
00:36:51 --> 00:36:53
			letter of authorization from James? Something that proves
		
00:36:53 --> 00:36:54
			that you've been authorized
		
00:36:55 --> 00:36:56
			to preach the gospel?
		
00:36:56 --> 00:36:58
			And Paul's response would have been, no. My
		
00:36:58 --> 00:37:01
			vision of Jesus is all I need. James,
		
00:37:01 --> 00:37:03
			Peter, and John, these so called pillars mean
		
00:37:03 --> 00:37:04
			nothing to me.
		
00:37:05 --> 00:37:05
			Now
		
00:37:05 --> 00:37:08
			would those Jews be justified in rejecting Paul's
		
00:37:08 --> 00:37:09
			gospel?
		
00:37:09 --> 00:37:13
			Yes. They were absolutely right to reject him.
		
00:37:13 --> 00:37:14
			Unfortunately,
		
00:37:14 --> 00:37:16
			many pagans believed Paul because
		
00:37:18 --> 00:37:20
			I think it's because they they knew very
		
00:37:20 --> 00:37:21
			little about the historical Jesus,
		
00:37:22 --> 00:37:24
			and their knowledge of Judaism was very limited.
		
00:37:24 --> 00:37:26
			And they trusted Paul's claims because he was
		
00:37:26 --> 00:37:27
			probably very
		
00:37:28 --> 00:37:28
			likely,
		
00:37:29 --> 00:37:29
			very charismatic.
		
00:37:30 --> 00:37:32
			But Paul and Jesus were preaching 2 different
		
00:37:32 --> 00:37:33
			gospels.
		
00:37:34 --> 00:37:36
			Okay. Now back to Matthew, does Matthew identify
		
00:37:36 --> 00:37:38
			himself in Matthew? The answer is
		
00:37:38 --> 00:37:40
			no. You know, when the Matthean Jesus commands
		
00:37:40 --> 00:37:42
			Matthew to follow him, does the author say
		
00:37:42 --> 00:37:44
			something like, so I followed Jesus? No, he
		
00:37:44 --> 00:37:46
			writes in the 3rd person.
		
00:37:46 --> 00:37:48
			So today, we know that the book of
		
00:37:48 --> 00:37:51
			Matthew was not called Matthew until 180
		
00:37:52 --> 00:37:54
			of the Common Era by Irenaeus.
		
00:37:54 --> 00:37:56
			Okay. The heresy hunter extraordinaire.
		
00:37:57 --> 00:37:59
			But here's where it gets even weirder.
		
00:37:59 --> 00:38:02
			If a book was explicitly claimed by its
		
00:38:02 --> 00:38:03
			author to be apostolic,
		
00:38:04 --> 00:38:06
			but did not reflect proto orthodoxy,
		
00:38:07 --> 00:38:10
			then the proto orthodox would not consider it
		
00:38:10 --> 00:38:10
			apostolic,
		
00:38:11 --> 00:38:13
			despite its explicit claim
		
00:38:13 --> 00:38:16
			of being apostolic. For example, the gospel of
		
00:38:16 --> 00:38:16
			Peter.
		
00:38:16 --> 00:38:18
			Right? The the author of
		
00:38:18 --> 00:38:21
			the gospel of Peter explicitly claims to be
		
00:38:21 --> 00:38:23
			Peter, and it was widely read. It was
		
00:38:23 --> 00:38:25
			a popular gospel. In fact, Sarapion,
		
00:38:26 --> 00:38:27
			of Antioch,
		
00:38:28 --> 00:38:28
			initially
		
00:38:29 --> 00:38:30
			accepted as authentic.
		
00:38:30 --> 00:38:33
			He was proto orthodox. Eventually, some of his
		
00:38:33 --> 00:38:35
			colleagues convinced him to condemn it.
		
00:38:36 --> 00:38:37
			So so let me say it like this.
		
00:38:37 --> 00:38:38
			So anonymous
		
00:38:39 --> 00:38:40
			books, anonymous books
		
00:38:41 --> 00:38:43
			that would eventually be canonized like Matthew, Mark,
		
00:38:43 --> 00:38:44
			Luke, and John
		
00:38:44 --> 00:38:46
			were included and deemed authentic.
		
00:38:47 --> 00:38:48
			But books,
		
00:38:48 --> 00:38:51
			that were written during the same general time
		
00:38:51 --> 00:38:51
			frame,
		
00:38:52 --> 00:38:53
			like the gospel of Thomas or the gospel
		
00:38:53 --> 00:38:57
			of Peter, that explicitly claim apostolic authorship were
		
00:38:57 --> 00:38:58
			excluded.
		
00:38:58 --> 00:39:01
			Because one group of Christian theologians, the pro
		
00:39:01 --> 00:39:02
			Pauline proto orthodox,
		
00:39:03 --> 00:39:05
			whose teachings were at odds with the historical
		
00:39:05 --> 00:39:06
			Jesus,
		
00:39:06 --> 00:39:07
			found the Christologies
		
00:39:08 --> 00:39:09
			of those books problematic.
		
00:39:10 --> 00:39:12
			So for example, the gospel of Mark, which
		
00:39:12 --> 00:39:13
			is anonymous,
		
00:39:14 --> 00:39:17
			was accepted because it agreed with proto orthodoxy.
		
00:39:17 --> 00:39:18
			And due to this
		
00:39:19 --> 00:39:20
			agreement, it was attributed
		
00:39:20 --> 00:39:23
			by proto orthodox authorities to Mark, a student
		
00:39:23 --> 00:39:26
			of Peter, but the gospel of Mark's teacher,
		
00:39:26 --> 00:39:27
			Peter,
		
00:39:27 --> 00:39:29
			the gospel of Peter himself,
		
00:39:30 --> 00:39:33
			which is explicitly attributed to Peter
		
00:39:33 --> 00:39:35
			by its very author was excluded
		
00:39:36 --> 00:39:38
			because its theology clashes with Pauline.
		
00:39:39 --> 00:39:40
			That is to say, proto orthodox
		
00:39:41 --> 00:39:43
			Christianity. So how does it clash? Well, just
		
00:39:43 --> 00:39:44
			give one example.
		
00:39:45 --> 00:39:46
			If in the gospel of Peter,
		
00:39:47 --> 00:39:49
			Peter wrote that when Jesus was crucified,
		
00:39:50 --> 00:39:52
			he was silent as if he felt no
		
00:39:52 --> 00:39:52
			pain.
		
00:39:52 --> 00:39:54
			Right? So that's not good. Right? As they
		
00:39:54 --> 00:39:56
			say, his pain is our gain.
		
00:39:56 --> 00:39:59
			So what happened? Was his soul removed from
		
00:39:59 --> 00:40:01
			his body so that they were crucifying
		
00:40:01 --> 00:40:03
			an empty shell of a body? Maybe Jesus
		
00:40:03 --> 00:40:05
			was just being stoic.
		
00:40:05 --> 00:40:07
			If you read the gospel of Peter closely,
		
00:40:07 --> 00:40:10
			Peter actually avoids saying that Jesus died.
		
00:40:11 --> 00:40:14
			He avoids saying that Jesus experienced death.
		
00:40:15 --> 00:40:16
			He said that Jesus was taken up. That's
		
00:40:16 --> 00:40:17
			how he puts it.
		
00:40:18 --> 00:40:20
			Maybe because Peter thought Jesus was God and
		
00:40:20 --> 00:40:22
			that God can't really die. Of course, this
		
00:40:22 --> 00:40:25
			makes no historical sense. The historical Peter most
		
00:40:25 --> 00:40:26
			likely did not worship
		
00:40:26 --> 00:40:28
			another man as God. Whatever the case may
		
00:40:28 --> 00:40:31
			be, the gospel of Peter was eventually condemned.
		
00:40:33 --> 00:40:34
			But here's a question.
		
00:40:35 --> 00:40:37
			Why was the gospel of Mark eventually
		
00:40:37 --> 00:40:38
			attributed to Mark?
		
00:40:39 --> 00:40:41
			Right? The first gospel in the canon.
		
00:40:41 --> 00:40:44
			Did the New Testament character known as Mark
		
00:40:44 --> 00:40:46
			actually write the gospel of Mark?
		
00:40:46 --> 00:40:48
			So who was Mark? Okay. So according to
		
00:40:48 --> 00:40:51
			the book of Acts, Mark was the son
		
00:40:51 --> 00:40:53
			of a certain Mary whose Jewish name was
		
00:40:53 --> 00:40:53
			John.
		
00:40:54 --> 00:40:56
			He was a student of Peter. He was
		
00:40:56 --> 00:40:58
			a traveling companion of Paul and Barnabas.
		
00:40:59 --> 00:41:02
			The first Christian to mention that someone named
		
00:41:02 --> 00:41:03
			Mark wrote anything
		
00:41:04 --> 00:41:06
			about Jesus was Papias,
		
00:41:06 --> 00:41:07
			who died around 1:30
		
00:41:08 --> 00:41:10
			of the common era. He was the Bishop
		
00:41:10 --> 00:41:10
			of,
		
00:41:11 --> 00:41:12
			Hierapolis.
		
00:41:12 --> 00:41:15
			And he mentions this and is no longer
		
00:41:15 --> 00:41:15
			extent
		
00:41:16 --> 00:41:16
			5 volume,
		
00:41:17 --> 00:41:20
			exposition of the sayings of the Lord. So
		
00:41:20 --> 00:41:22
			this was sometime during the Q1 of 2nd
		
00:41:22 --> 00:41:23
			century.
		
00:41:23 --> 00:41:25
			Okay. We only know of this passage because
		
00:41:25 --> 00:41:27
			it was quoted by Eusebius of Caesarea
		
00:41:28 --> 00:41:29
			in his famous ecclesiastical
		
00:41:29 --> 00:41:32
			history written around 325, something like that. So
		
00:41:32 --> 00:41:34
			this is what Eusebius wrote quoting Papias.
		
00:41:35 --> 00:41:37
			He says, this also the presbyter said, Mark
		
00:41:37 --> 00:41:39
			having become the interpreter
		
00:41:39 --> 00:41:41
			of Peter wrote down accurately,
		
00:41:41 --> 00:41:42
			though not in order whatsoever
		
00:41:43 --> 00:41:44
			he remembered of the things said or done
		
00:41:44 --> 00:41:45
			by Christ.
		
00:41:45 --> 00:41:47
			For he neither heard the lord nor followed
		
00:41:47 --> 00:41:50
			him, but afterward, as I said, he followed
		
00:41:50 --> 00:41:52
			Peter who adapted his teachings to the needs
		
00:41:52 --> 00:41:53
			of his hearers,
		
00:41:53 --> 00:41:56
			but with no intention of giving a connected
		
00:41:56 --> 00:41:58
			account of the Lord's discourses.
		
00:41:59 --> 00:42:01
			So that Mark committed no error while he
		
00:42:01 --> 00:42:03
			thus wrote some things that as he remembered
		
00:42:03 --> 00:42:04
			them. For he was careful of one thing,
		
00:42:04 --> 00:42:06
			not to omit any of the things which
		
00:42:06 --> 00:42:08
			he had heard and not to state any
		
00:42:08 --> 00:42:09
			of them falsely.
		
00:42:09 --> 00:42:12
			These things are related by Papias concerning Mark.
		
00:42:12 --> 00:42:14
			But concerning Matthew, he writes as follows. So
		
00:42:14 --> 00:42:16
			then Matthew wrote the oracles in the Hebrew
		
00:42:16 --> 00:42:17
			language,
		
00:42:17 --> 00:42:19
			and and everyone
		
00:42:19 --> 00:42:21
			interpreted them as he was able.
		
00:42:22 --> 00:42:24
			So so the Christian position can be summed
		
00:42:24 --> 00:42:26
			up in a nutshell as follows.
		
00:42:26 --> 00:42:28
			The same Mark who was described in the
		
00:42:28 --> 00:42:29
			book of Acts
		
00:42:30 --> 00:42:32
			wrote the gospel that we now know as
		
00:42:32 --> 00:42:34
			the gospel of Mark
		
00:42:34 --> 00:42:36
			and that this is attested to by Papias
		
00:42:37 --> 00:42:38
			in the early 2nd century,
		
00:42:39 --> 00:42:41
			some 40 to 60 years after Mark was
		
00:42:41 --> 00:42:42
			composed. In other words,
		
00:42:43 --> 00:42:45
			the institution that Mark wrote Mark did not
		
00:42:45 --> 00:42:47
			begin with Irenaeus in 1 AD CE.
		
00:42:48 --> 00:42:51
			It predates Irenaeus by at least 50 years.
		
00:42:51 --> 00:42:54
			Now unfortunately for the Christians who maintain this
		
00:42:54 --> 00:42:56
			position, most historians do not believe
		
00:42:57 --> 00:42:59
			that Papias was describing
		
00:42:59 --> 00:43:01
			describing what came to be called the gospel
		
00:43:01 --> 00:43:02
			of Mark.
		
00:43:03 --> 00:43:05
			The main reason is precisely because the gospel
		
00:43:05 --> 00:43:07
			of Mark does not match
		
00:43:08 --> 00:43:10
			what Papias is describing
		
00:43:10 --> 00:43:12
			as being Mark's writing.
		
00:43:13 --> 00:43:16
			Papias was clearly describing a writing that was
		
00:43:16 --> 00:43:17
			narratively
		
00:43:17 --> 00:43:18
			disjointed
		
00:43:18 --> 00:43:20
			like the sayings gospel,
		
00:43:21 --> 00:43:23
			like something like Q or Thomas, and yet
		
00:43:23 --> 00:43:25
			also very comprehensive
		
00:43:25 --> 00:43:26
			in its presentation
		
00:43:27 --> 00:43:29
			of Jesus' sayings and deeds.
		
00:43:29 --> 00:43:31
			The the gospel of Mark is the very
		
00:43:31 --> 00:43:33
			antithesis of this. I mean, Mark's narrative is
		
00:43:33 --> 00:43:34
			chronologically ordered
		
00:43:35 --> 00:43:36
			yet also very concise.
		
00:43:36 --> 00:43:38
			Right? In fact, it's the shortest of the
		
00:43:38 --> 00:43:38
			canonical
		
00:43:39 --> 00:43:42
			gospels by far having only 16 chapters.
		
00:43:42 --> 00:43:44
			Historians feel the same way about what Papias
		
00:43:44 --> 00:43:46
			said concerning Matthew's writing.
		
00:43:46 --> 00:43:49
			That is, you know, Papias, was most likely
		
00:43:49 --> 00:43:50
			not describing
		
00:43:51 --> 00:43:54
			what we know today to be the gospel
		
00:43:54 --> 00:43:54
			of Matthew
		
00:43:55 --> 00:43:57
			because the gospel of Matthew was most certainly
		
00:43:57 --> 00:43:58
			written in Greek,
		
00:43:59 --> 00:44:00
			not Hebrew,
		
00:44:00 --> 00:44:03
			and does not contain does not simply contain
		
00:44:03 --> 00:44:04
			the, you know, oracles,
		
00:44:04 --> 00:44:06
			I e sayings of Jesus, but rather contains
		
00:44:06 --> 00:44:09
			a very long well structured narrative
		
00:44:09 --> 00:44:12
			of Jesus's ministry and death. So, yes, Irenaeus
		
00:44:12 --> 00:44:14
			was the first to refer to Mark's gospel,
		
00:44:16 --> 00:44:17
			as Mark's gospel.
		
00:44:18 --> 00:44:21
			But why did Irenaeus call it Mark?
		
00:44:21 --> 00:44:23
			Why not call it the gospel of Peter
		
00:44:23 --> 00:44:25
			or even Timothy or Barnabas?
		
00:44:25 --> 00:44:28
			Why did he attribute proto Mark to Mark,
		
00:44:29 --> 00:44:31
			a little known character in the New Testament,
		
00:44:31 --> 00:44:33
			if he didn't need to. The Christian answer
		
00:44:33 --> 00:44:35
			is that Irenaeus must have simply been relating
		
00:44:35 --> 00:44:36
			an older tradition,
		
00:44:38 --> 00:44:38
			that already
		
00:44:39 --> 00:44:41
			attributed protomark to Mark. He was simply reaffirming,
		
00:44:42 --> 00:44:45
			that tradition. Historically, however, this seems unlikely.
		
00:44:45 --> 00:44:48
			The simple answer is that Irenaeus knew that
		
00:44:48 --> 00:44:51
			the figures Mark and Matthew, for that matter,
		
00:44:51 --> 00:44:53
			had allegedly authored something
		
00:44:54 --> 00:44:57
			due to a prevalent oral tradition that was
		
00:44:57 --> 00:44:57
			articulated
		
00:44:58 --> 00:45:00
			in writing at one point by Papias around
		
00:45:00 --> 00:45:03
			120 to 130. But again, the writings of
		
00:45:03 --> 00:45:04
			Mark and Matthew
		
00:45:04 --> 00:45:05
			that Papias
		
00:45:06 --> 00:45:08
			was describing in his exposition of the sayings
		
00:45:08 --> 00:45:11
			was clearly different than what Irenaeus would eventually
		
00:45:11 --> 00:45:12
			refer to
		
00:45:12 --> 00:45:14
			as the gospel of Mark and the gospel
		
00:45:14 --> 00:45:15
			of Matthew.
		
00:45:15 --> 00:45:17
			Nonetheless, it was a stroke of genius on
		
00:45:17 --> 00:45:18
			the part of Irenaeus.
		
00:45:18 --> 00:45:21
			By calling proto Mark, Mark, he was able
		
00:45:21 --> 00:45:23
			to establish for this gospel
		
00:45:23 --> 00:45:26
			an apostolic chain of transmission, you know, from
		
00:45:26 --> 00:45:28
			Jesus to Peter to Mark on the authority
		
00:45:28 --> 00:45:29
			of someone called the presbyter.
		
00:45:30 --> 00:45:32
			So where are the writings of Mark and
		
00:45:32 --> 00:45:32
			Matthew
		
00:45:33 --> 00:45:35
			that Papias was actually describing?
		
00:45:36 --> 00:45:37
			Where are the writings of Mark and Matthew
		
00:45:37 --> 00:45:40
			that Papias was actually describing their loss?
		
00:45:41 --> 00:45:44
			Maybe Q is Papias's mark. Papias was describing
		
00:45:44 --> 00:45:46
			something that resembled Q,
		
00:45:46 --> 00:45:47
			a long
		
00:45:47 --> 00:45:48
			sayings gospel.
		
00:45:49 --> 00:45:51
			God knows. I mean, the bottom line is
		
00:45:51 --> 00:45:53
			what we know today as being the gospel
		
00:45:53 --> 00:45:55
			of Mark and the gospel of Matthew
		
00:45:55 --> 00:45:58
			was likely not what Papias was describing
		
00:45:59 --> 00:46:01
			as being the writings of Mark and Matthew.
		
00:46:02 --> 00:46:04
			Right? It was Irenaeus who called the gospel
		
00:46:04 --> 00:46:06
			of Mark, the gospel of Mark,
		
00:46:06 --> 00:46:08
			and the Gospel of Matthew the Gospel of
		
00:46:08 --> 00:46:11
			Matthew because he wanted to connect those gospels
		
00:46:11 --> 00:46:14
			to Papias before him who described something
		
00:46:15 --> 00:46:16
			called Mark and Matthew.
		
00:46:18 --> 00:46:18
			Okay,
		
00:46:19 --> 00:46:22
			a Christian apologist might say but Matthew, Mark,
		
00:46:22 --> 00:46:24
			Luke, and John were written by 2 eyewitnesses
		
00:46:24 --> 00:46:26
			to Jesus and 2 students of eyewitnesses.
		
00:46:27 --> 00:46:29
			While the gospels of Peter and Thomas and
		
00:46:29 --> 00:46:31
			Mary and Philip, etcetera, etcetera, these were falsely
		
00:46:31 --> 00:46:33
			attributed to their authors.
		
00:46:33 --> 00:46:35
			So this argument doesn't quite work anymore.
		
00:46:35 --> 00:46:38
			Almost all historians and critical scholars of the
		
00:46:38 --> 00:46:40
			gospels maintained that, in fact,
		
00:46:40 --> 00:46:42
			all of these books are anonymous. So Peter
		
00:46:42 --> 00:46:44
			did not write Peter any more than Matthew
		
00:46:44 --> 00:46:45
			wrote Matthew.
		
00:46:46 --> 00:46:47
			It's all Apocrypha,
		
00:46:48 --> 00:46:49
			that is to say it's all of dubious
		
00:46:49 --> 00:46:50
			origin.
		
00:46:50 --> 00:46:52
			There is no strong isnaan,
		
00:46:52 --> 00:46:54
			right, or chain of transmission for any of
		
00:46:54 --> 00:46:56
			these writings. This this is just
		
00:46:56 --> 00:46:57
			reality.
		
00:46:58 --> 00:46:59
			Does the Quran
		
00:46:59 --> 00:47:01
			we read today go back to the prophet
		
00:47:01 --> 00:47:03
			Muhammad peace be upon him? Yes. If viewers
		
00:47:03 --> 00:47:05
			haven't done so, please watch the podcast on
		
00:47:05 --> 00:47:07
			the preservation of the Quran.
		
00:47:07 --> 00:47:09
			Whether you agree with the content of the
		
00:47:09 --> 00:47:11
			Quran or not,
		
00:47:11 --> 00:47:13
			all of the reading traditions we read today
		
00:47:13 --> 00:47:15
			can be traced back to the prophetic archetype.
		
00:47:16 --> 00:47:18
			But here's what I'll do, you know, just
		
00:47:18 --> 00:47:19
			for argument sake.
		
00:47:20 --> 00:47:22
			Let's just for argument sake,
		
00:47:22 --> 00:47:23
			say that
		
00:47:24 --> 00:47:27
			Athanasius settled the canon. Okay? He didn't, but
		
00:47:27 --> 00:47:28
			just for the sake of argument.
		
00:47:28 --> 00:47:31
			Now now certainly there were millions of Christians
		
00:47:31 --> 00:47:32
			who lived and died
		
00:47:32 --> 00:47:33
			before the 4th century,
		
00:47:34 --> 00:47:36
			right, before the so called canonization of the
		
00:47:36 --> 00:47:36
			New Testament.
		
00:47:37 --> 00:47:39
			So what canon did they believe in?
		
00:47:40 --> 00:47:43
			You know, whenever I make the plausible historical
		
00:47:43 --> 00:47:45
			claim that Jesus was not crucified, I'm told
		
00:47:45 --> 00:47:47
			invariably by Christian apologists
		
00:47:47 --> 00:47:49
			to just read the New Testament. Right? Read
		
00:47:49 --> 00:47:52
			the 4 gospels. Read Paul. Jesus was crucified.
		
00:47:52 --> 00:47:54
			Right? But what about the authors of,
		
00:47:55 --> 00:47:57
			the the acts of John or the so
		
00:47:57 --> 00:47:59
			called second treatise of Seth or the gospel
		
00:47:59 --> 00:48:00
			of Thomas
		
00:48:01 --> 00:48:03
			or the author or authors of q.
		
00:48:03 --> 00:48:06
			So these are Christian writings that either ignore
		
00:48:06 --> 00:48:09
			the crucifixion altogether or outright deny
		
00:48:10 --> 00:48:13
			the crucifixion? Why didn't their authors just read
		
00:48:13 --> 00:48:13
			the new testament?
		
00:48:14 --> 00:48:16
			Of course, the answer is there was no
		
00:48:16 --> 00:48:17
			new testament.
		
00:48:17 --> 00:48:20
			These books, like the act the acts of
		
00:48:20 --> 00:48:22
			John, these predate the canon.
		
00:48:23 --> 00:48:25
			Or they'll say, oh, those books are anonymous.
		
00:48:26 --> 00:48:27
			So are the gospels.
		
00:48:27 --> 00:48:31
			Those books are late. Well, q likely predated
		
00:48:31 --> 00:48:34
			Paul and did not contain a passion narrative.
		
00:48:35 --> 00:48:37
			They'll say the acts of John is late.
		
00:48:37 --> 00:48:38
			Well, the gospel of John is also late,
		
00:48:38 --> 00:48:39
			probably
		
00:48:39 --> 00:48:40
			early 2nd century.
		
00:48:41 --> 00:48:43
			Acts is most likely 2nd century. 2nd Peter
		
00:48:43 --> 00:48:46
			is probably 120, 130, something like that.
		
00:48:46 --> 00:48:49
			Some historians actually date Thomas's gospel
		
00:48:49 --> 00:48:51
			to sometime before the synoptic gospels,
		
00:48:52 --> 00:48:54
			because of its method of presenting
		
00:48:54 --> 00:48:55
			the sayings of Jesus.
		
00:48:56 --> 00:48:58
			Some historians even call it the 5th gospel.
		
00:48:58 --> 00:49:00
			But forget about the second, 3rd, or 4th
		
00:49:00 --> 00:49:03
			centuries. Christianity was extremely diverse even in Paul's
		
00:49:03 --> 00:49:03
			day.
		
00:49:04 --> 00:49:06
			There was a plurality of Christianity in Paul's
		
00:49:06 --> 00:49:07
			day even in the fifties.
		
00:49:08 --> 00:49:11
			According to 1st Corinthians, there was major he
		
00:49:11 --> 00:49:14
			calls it strife or disunity among believers
		
00:49:16 --> 00:49:17
			believers in Jesus
		
00:49:18 --> 00:49:19
			living in Corinth, major
		
00:49:20 --> 00:49:20
			disunity
		
00:49:21 --> 00:49:22
			in the same city
		
00:49:22 --> 00:49:24
			at the same time. I think the reason
		
00:49:24 --> 00:49:26
			was because Paul of Tarsus brought a different
		
00:49:26 --> 00:49:28
			gospel. Jesus and Paul were preaching 2 different
		
00:49:29 --> 00:49:29
			gospels.
		
00:49:29 --> 00:49:32
			I think Paul actually referred to Jesus's gospel
		
00:49:32 --> 00:49:33
			as a different gospel
		
00:49:34 --> 00:49:36
			in Galatians. Of course, Paul refers to his
		
00:49:36 --> 00:49:38
			own teachings as my gospel.
		
00:49:39 --> 00:49:41
			So back to our question, what is a
		
00:49:41 --> 00:49:42
			Christian?
		
00:49:43 --> 00:49:44
			Okay. What is a Christian according to the
		
00:49:44 --> 00:49:47
			earliest possible understanding? Is it someone who believes
		
00:49:47 --> 00:49:48
			in the New Testament?
		
00:49:49 --> 00:49:49
			No.
		
00:49:49 --> 00:49:52
			There were generations of believers in Jesus who
		
00:49:52 --> 00:49:54
			lived and died before the New Testament.
		
00:49:55 --> 00:49:57
			None of the Christians living in Corinth or
		
00:49:57 --> 00:49:58
			Galatia or Thesalonica
		
00:49:59 --> 00:50:00
			or Philippi,
		
00:50:00 --> 00:50:03
			congregations founded by Paul in the 15 60s,
		
00:50:03 --> 00:50:05
			none of those Christians had even heard of
		
00:50:05 --> 00:50:07
			the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John.
		
00:50:07 --> 00:50:09
			Paul never heard of the gospels of Matthew,
		
00:50:09 --> 00:50:10
			Mark, Luke, and John, at least not when
		
00:50:10 --> 00:50:12
			he found that those congregations.
		
00:50:12 --> 00:50:14
			But here's the kicker, Jesus, peace be upon
		
00:50:14 --> 00:50:16
			him, never heard of the gospels of Matthew,
		
00:50:16 --> 00:50:17
			Mark, Luke, or John.
		
00:50:18 --> 00:50:19
			What was the Christian
		
00:50:20 --> 00:50:21
			canon of Jesus himself?
		
00:50:22 --> 00:50:24
			Of course, the question doesn't make any sense.
		
00:50:24 --> 00:50:26
			Now I mentioned this in the previous podcast,
		
00:50:26 --> 00:50:28
			but I'll say it again. It demonstrates my
		
00:50:28 --> 00:50:31
			point. If I were to somehow travel back
		
00:50:31 --> 00:50:32
			in time to Medina
		
00:50:32 --> 00:50:34
			in the year 6 30 of the common
		
00:50:34 --> 00:50:36
			era, of course, Paul, you just returned from,
		
00:50:36 --> 00:50:38
			the holy city of Medina.
		
00:50:38 --> 00:50:40
			If I were to ask the prophet Muhammad
		
00:50:41 --> 00:50:42
			Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam
		
00:50:42 --> 00:50:43
			to recite
		
00:50:43 --> 00:50:47
			Al Fatiha or Ayatul Kursi or Surah Yaseen,
		
00:50:47 --> 00:50:49
			He would know exactly what I was referring
		
00:50:49 --> 00:50:49
			to.
		
00:50:50 --> 00:50:52
			Now imagine that I traveled back to the
		
00:50:52 --> 00:50:53
			year 32,
		
00:50:54 --> 00:50:56
			you know, to Galilee in Northern Palestine.
		
00:50:57 --> 00:50:59
			Imagine that I asked Jesus, peace be upon
		
00:50:59 --> 00:51:00
			him, to recite
		
00:51:01 --> 00:51:03
			chapter 5 of the book of Matthew.
		
00:51:03 --> 00:51:05
			You know, what?
		
00:51:05 --> 00:51:06
			Matthew has a book?
		
00:51:07 --> 00:51:09
			Matthew, do you have a book?
		
00:51:09 --> 00:51:09
			No.
		
00:51:10 --> 00:51:11
			Or recite,
		
00:51:11 --> 00:51:14
			the famous creed of 1st Corinthians 15.
		
00:51:14 --> 00:51:17
			What? Never heard of it. It's written by
		
00:51:17 --> 00:51:17
			Paul.
		
00:51:18 --> 00:51:18
			Who?
		
00:51:20 --> 00:51:23
			So Christians today have nothing with respect to
		
00:51:23 --> 00:51:23
			Jesus
		
00:51:24 --> 00:51:26
			that is comparable to what Muslims have with
		
00:51:26 --> 00:51:27
			the Quran.
		
00:51:27 --> 00:51:28
			Okay?
		
00:51:28 --> 00:51:30
			So again, what makes a Christian belief in
		
00:51:30 --> 00:51:31
			the trinity?
		
00:51:33 --> 00:51:36
			No. Even the New Testament writers were not
		
00:51:36 --> 00:51:36
			Trinitarians,
		
00:51:37 --> 00:51:40
			let alone the Nazarenes under James or the
		
00:51:40 --> 00:51:41
			so called Ebionites
		
00:51:41 --> 00:51:43
			who followed them. And when I say that
		
00:51:43 --> 00:51:45
			the New Testament writers were not Trinitarians,
		
00:51:45 --> 00:51:47
			almost all historians agree with me.
		
00:51:49 --> 00:51:50
			And Tertullian
		
00:51:51 --> 00:51:53
			was the first proto orthodox writer to even
		
00:51:53 --> 00:51:55
			use the term trinity, trinitas.
		
00:51:55 --> 00:51:56
			He died in the first half of the
		
00:51:56 --> 00:51:57
			third century.
		
00:51:58 --> 00:52:00
			So we don't get the trinity. It is
		
00:52:02 --> 00:52:04
			1 essence in 3 persons. We don't get
		
00:52:04 --> 00:52:05
			that until 3/81
		
00:52:06 --> 00:52:08
			of the common era. Okay? So the Cappadocians
		
00:52:09 --> 00:52:10
			were the first true Trinitarian
		
00:52:11 --> 00:52:11
			theologians.
		
00:52:12 --> 00:52:13
			So again, what is a Christian?
		
00:52:14 --> 00:52:16
			Is it someone who believes in the creed
		
00:52:16 --> 00:52:17
			of 1st Corinthians 15?
		
00:52:18 --> 00:52:20
			Well, Paul wrote this in the mid fifties.
		
00:52:20 --> 00:52:22
			And as we saw in our last podcast
		
00:52:23 --> 00:52:25
			on historicity of the crucifixion, Paul is very
		
00:52:25 --> 00:52:27
			adamant that he did not receive any teaching
		
00:52:28 --> 00:52:29
			from any human teachers,
		
00:52:30 --> 00:52:31
			but rather through a direct revelation of what
		
00:52:31 --> 00:52:33
			he perceived to be the resurrected
		
00:52:33 --> 00:52:36
			Christ. And I believe in revelation,
		
00:52:36 --> 00:52:39
			all right, as a Muslim. But Paul's revelation
		
00:52:39 --> 00:52:40
			put him
		
00:52:40 --> 00:52:41
			into direct conflict
		
00:52:42 --> 00:52:44
			with Jerusalem based apostles,
		
00:52:44 --> 00:52:46
			right? A revelation that put him
		
00:52:46 --> 00:52:49
			in conflict with James. So that is a
		
00:52:49 --> 00:52:50
			major red flag.
		
00:52:51 --> 00:52:53
			Paul says that if Christ was not raised,
		
00:52:53 --> 00:52:55
			your faith is in vain. Why? Why did
		
00:52:55 --> 00:52:58
			he say that? Presumably because plausibly because
		
00:52:59 --> 00:53:01
			there were Christians who did not believe that
		
00:53:01 --> 00:53:03
			Jesus was raised from the dead.
		
00:53:03 --> 00:53:04
			Paul says, remember Jesus Christ of the seed
		
00:53:04 --> 00:53:06
			of David was raised from the dead, according
		
00:53:06 --> 00:53:09
			to my gospel, right? The gospel of Paul.
		
00:53:09 --> 00:53:12
			Paul said, didn't I portray Jesus as crucified?
		
00:53:12 --> 00:53:15
			Why did he say that? Plausibly because there
		
00:53:15 --> 00:53:17
			were Christians who did not believe that Jesus
		
00:53:17 --> 00:53:18
			was crucified.
		
00:53:18 --> 00:53:21
			These Christians believed in a different gospel. A
		
00:53:21 --> 00:53:23
			gospel that had nothing to do with some
		
00:53:23 --> 00:53:24
			crucifixion.
		
00:53:25 --> 00:53:28
			So the question, what is a Christian remains
		
00:53:28 --> 00:53:28
			unanswered.
		
00:53:29 --> 00:53:31
			I would submit that the most accurate answer
		
00:53:31 --> 00:53:33
			we can come up with from the earliest
		
00:53:33 --> 00:53:34
			of times
		
00:53:34 --> 00:53:36
			is that a a quote Christian is anyone
		
00:53:36 --> 00:53:39
			who believe that Jesus of Nazareth was a
		
00:53:39 --> 00:53:41
			messianic figure. I mean, that's it. That's sort
		
00:53:41 --> 00:53:43
			of the bare bones. That's all we can
		
00:53:43 --> 00:53:45
			really say. Jesus of Nazareth was a messiah
		
00:53:45 --> 00:53:48
			of some sort. So here's my point. The
		
00:53:48 --> 00:53:49
			New Testament canon
		
00:53:49 --> 00:53:51
			that we all know today, that we all
		
00:53:51 --> 00:53:52
			read today,
		
00:53:52 --> 00:53:55
			has a very minimal and restricted relationship
		
00:53:56 --> 00:53:59
			with the earliest stages of the messianic movement,
		
00:54:00 --> 00:54:01
			led by Jesus of Nazareth.
		
00:54:02 --> 00:54:05
			These books obviously did not exist. Even even
		
00:54:05 --> 00:54:06
			the term Christian
		
00:54:06 --> 00:54:07
			did not exist.
		
00:54:07 --> 00:54:08
			So what existed?
		
00:54:09 --> 00:54:11
			Well, oral tradition,
		
00:54:12 --> 00:54:13
			individual sayings of Jesus,
		
00:54:14 --> 00:54:15
			some of which I think ended up in
		
00:54:15 --> 00:54:17
			the canonical gospels,
		
00:54:17 --> 00:54:19
			albeit in a Greek
		
00:54:19 --> 00:54:20
			translation.
		
00:54:21 --> 00:54:23
			Now I mentioned that if we went back
		
00:54:23 --> 00:54:24
			in time to speak to Jesus, peace be
		
00:54:24 --> 00:54:26
			upon him, he would not understand
		
00:54:26 --> 00:54:27
			the reference,
		
00:54:27 --> 00:54:29
			John 316, for example.
		
00:54:29 --> 00:54:30
			A Christian apologist
		
00:54:31 --> 00:54:33
			might respond here and say, sure, the book
		
00:54:33 --> 00:54:35
			of John did not exist at that time.
		
00:54:35 --> 00:54:37
			But if you were to actually quote John
		
00:54:37 --> 00:54:39
			316 to Jesus,
		
00:54:40 --> 00:54:41
			Jesus would say, oh, yeah, that's what I
		
00:54:41 --> 00:54:42
			said to Nicodemus.
		
00:54:43 --> 00:54:44
			Right? This is what a Christian apologist would
		
00:54:44 --> 00:54:46
			say. He would also say similarly, if we
		
00:54:46 --> 00:54:48
			went back to Medina in 6:30,
		
00:54:49 --> 00:54:51
			the book called Sahih al Bukhari did not
		
00:54:51 --> 00:54:52
			exist,
		
00:54:52 --> 00:54:55
			but the prophet would recognize individual statements that
		
00:54:55 --> 00:54:56
			he made
		
00:54:56 --> 00:54:58
			that would later be compiled by Imam al
		
00:54:58 --> 00:54:59
			Bukhari.
		
00:55:00 --> 00:55:01
			But just as the Prophet Muhammad, peace be
		
00:55:01 --> 00:55:03
			upon him, never saw the various books of
		
00:55:03 --> 00:55:05
			Hadith, Jesus, peace be upon him, never saw
		
00:55:05 --> 00:55:07
			the various books of the Gospels. So this
		
00:55:07 --> 00:55:08
			is a fair point.
		
00:55:09 --> 00:55:11
			The Gospels are more like hadith
		
00:55:11 --> 00:55:13
			than like the Quran.
		
00:55:13 --> 00:55:16
			Yes, I agree with this. And we know
		
00:55:16 --> 00:55:17
			that Hadith
		
00:55:17 --> 00:55:19
			are at different grades of authenticity.
		
00:55:20 --> 00:55:22
			Right, unlike the Quran,
		
00:55:22 --> 00:55:26
			most hadith are not mass transmitted. So Muslim
		
00:55:26 --> 00:55:28
			scholars develop a robust methodology
		
00:55:28 --> 00:55:29
			of hadith criticism.
		
00:55:30 --> 00:55:32
			It's called Usuru Nakdil Hadith.
		
00:55:32 --> 00:55:34
			So they examine the Hadith individually
		
00:55:35 --> 00:55:38
			and determine their authenticity by considering several factors
		
00:55:38 --> 00:55:39
			like attestation,
		
00:55:40 --> 00:55:42
			social coherence, chain of transmission, etcetera.
		
00:55:43 --> 00:55:45
			So our classical scholars did this. And so
		
00:55:45 --> 00:55:47
			the book of Imam Abu Hari has the
		
00:55:47 --> 00:55:48
			highest grade of authenticity.
		
00:55:49 --> 00:55:52
			When Christian historical critics apply their method
		
00:55:52 --> 00:55:53
			to the 4 gospels,
		
00:55:54 --> 00:55:56
			John 3 16 rarely makes the cut,
		
00:55:57 --> 00:55:57
			if ever.
		
00:55:58 --> 00:55:59
			So if we quoted the
		
00:56:00 --> 00:56:01
			text of John 316,
		
00:56:02 --> 00:56:03
			the words of John 316
		
00:56:04 --> 00:56:06
			directly to Jesus, to directly to Jesus, peace
		
00:56:06 --> 00:56:09
			be upon him, it's more likely that he
		
00:56:09 --> 00:56:12
			would not recognize it. In fact, he would
		
00:56:12 --> 00:56:14
			probably repudiate it.
		
00:56:14 --> 00:56:14
			Now
		
00:56:15 --> 00:56:17
			Jesus, peace be upon him, was on this
		
00:56:17 --> 00:56:20
			earth for 31 to 33 years.
		
00:56:20 --> 00:56:23
			And immediately after his departure, many, many stories
		
00:56:23 --> 00:56:26
			were related about him. And many, many statements
		
00:56:26 --> 00:56:29
			were attributed to him. Right? And I think
		
00:56:29 --> 00:56:30
			we can all agree with this, Muslim, Christian,
		
00:56:30 --> 00:56:31
			and secular historian.
		
00:56:32 --> 00:56:34
			Only the Jesus, you know, mythicist will disagree
		
00:56:34 --> 00:56:37
			here. But by and large, historians agree that
		
00:56:37 --> 00:56:38
			Jesus existed.
		
00:56:38 --> 00:56:40
			But even the mythicist
		
00:56:40 --> 00:56:42
			will agree that people were talking about Jesus
		
00:56:42 --> 00:56:45
			even if he never existed. Right? Many people
		
00:56:45 --> 00:56:48
			were relating stories about him and attributing statements
		
00:56:48 --> 00:56:51
			to him. Everyone agrees with this. Okay? Now
		
00:56:51 --> 00:56:53
			the last verse of the gospel of John,
		
00:56:53 --> 00:56:55
			the very last verse of the gospel
		
00:56:55 --> 00:56:58
			says something very interesting. Okay? And this is
		
00:56:58 --> 00:56:59
			the appended epilogue.
		
00:57:00 --> 00:57:02
			And Paul, I know you quoted this verse,
		
00:57:02 --> 00:57:03
			as well on a segment you did on
		
00:57:03 --> 00:57:05
			the proto gospel of James, which was fantastic.
		
00:57:05 --> 00:57:07
			If viewers haven't seen it, they should.
		
00:57:07 --> 00:57:08
			So here's what it says.
		
00:57:09 --> 00:57:12
			Jesus did many other things as well.
		
00:57:13 --> 00:57:14
			If every one of them were written down,
		
00:57:14 --> 00:57:16
			I suppose that even the whole cosmos,
		
00:57:17 --> 00:57:18
			the whole
		
00:57:18 --> 00:57:20
			world would not have room for the book,
		
00:57:20 --> 00:57:21
			the biblia
		
00:57:21 --> 00:57:24
			that would be written, John 21/25. I mean,
		
00:57:24 --> 00:57:25
			the author is being a bit hyperbolic,
		
00:57:25 --> 00:57:27
			but the point is well taken.
		
00:57:27 --> 00:57:30
			Now here's something interesting. The full title of
		
00:57:30 --> 00:57:30
			Sahih al Bukhari,
		
00:57:31 --> 00:57:34
			its full title is Al Jami al Musnat
		
00:57:34 --> 00:57:35
			As Sahih al Muqtasar.
		
00:57:47 --> 00:57:49
			Imam al Bukhari is saying
		
00:57:49 --> 00:57:52
			that of course there are Hadith outside of
		
00:57:52 --> 00:57:54
			his book that are authentic.
		
00:57:54 --> 00:57:56
			Okay? His book is a mukta,
		
00:57:57 --> 00:57:59
			which is a concise or abridged collection of
		
00:57:59 --> 00:58:00
			hadith.
		
00:58:01 --> 00:58:02
			Okay?
		
00:58:02 --> 00:58:05
			So there were many, many stories, many, many
		
00:58:05 --> 00:58:07
			statements floating around the ancient world about Jesus.
		
00:58:08 --> 00:58:10
			Some of the stories and statements were true.
		
00:58:10 --> 00:58:12
			Some of them were sort of half true
		
00:58:12 --> 00:58:14
			or partially true, and some were false or
		
00:58:14 --> 00:58:15
			fabricated.
		
00:58:16 --> 00:58:18
			After several decades of oral transmission,
		
00:58:18 --> 00:58:20
			some of these stories and state as were
		
00:58:20 --> 00:58:22
			written down by various Christians.
		
00:58:23 --> 00:58:25
			Okay? Various people who believed in Jesus' messiahship
		
00:58:25 --> 00:58:26
			in some way.
		
00:58:26 --> 00:58:28
			Some of these traditions ended up in books,
		
00:58:28 --> 00:58:29
			in biblia,
		
00:58:30 --> 00:58:31
			books that were eventually called the gospels of
		
00:58:31 --> 00:58:34
			Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Other traditions ended
		
00:58:34 --> 00:58:36
			up in books called the gospel of Thomas.
		
00:58:36 --> 00:58:39
			The infancy gospel of Thomas, the proto gospel
		
00:58:39 --> 00:58:41
			of James, the gospel of Peter, the Didache,
		
00:58:42 --> 00:58:43
			just to name a few.
		
00:58:44 --> 00:58:45
			Luke tells us in his preamble,
		
00:58:46 --> 00:58:47
			this is a very important point and I
		
00:58:47 --> 00:58:48
			made this point several times in the past.
		
00:58:49 --> 00:58:51
			But it's very important people understand this. Luke
		
00:58:51 --> 00:58:53
			says in his preamble to his gospel that
		
00:58:53 --> 00:58:54
			poloi,
		
00:58:54 --> 00:58:56
			many people wrote,
		
00:58:56 --> 00:58:58
			okay. Many people wrote,
		
00:58:58 --> 00:58:59
			the ages,
		
00:59:00 --> 00:59:01
			narratives
		
00:59:01 --> 00:59:02
			of Jesus.
		
00:59:03 --> 00:59:05
			What does Luke mean by many? We I
		
00:59:05 --> 00:59:07
			mean, we know that Luke knew Mark and
		
00:59:07 --> 00:59:08
			q, so that's 2 narratives,
		
00:59:09 --> 00:59:10
			but that's not
		
00:59:10 --> 00:59:12
			many. Right? So how is how does Luke
		
00:59:12 --> 00:59:13
			use this word, paloy,
		
00:59:14 --> 00:59:16
			elsewhere in his own gospel? Where in in
		
00:59:16 --> 00:59:19
			Luke chapter 5 verse 6, Luke says that
		
00:59:19 --> 00:59:21
			when Jesus went fishing with Peter,
		
00:59:21 --> 00:59:22
			there were there
		
00:59:23 --> 00:59:26
			were many fish in the net, same word.
		
00:59:26 --> 00:59:28
			So what does he mean? 2 or 3
		
00:59:28 --> 00:59:28
			or 10
		
00:59:29 --> 00:59:31
			fish? No. He means that there were so
		
00:59:31 --> 00:59:33
			many fish in the net. He says, the
		
00:59:33 --> 00:59:34
			nets were about to tear.
		
00:59:35 --> 00:59:37
			So according to Luke, there were presumably dozens
		
00:59:37 --> 00:59:38
			of narratives,
		
00:59:39 --> 00:59:41
			dozens and dozens of gospels about Jesus that
		
00:59:41 --> 00:59:44
			were written before he wrote his.
		
00:59:44 --> 00:59:45
			Okay?
		
00:59:47 --> 00:59:48
			It is logical
		
00:59:48 --> 00:59:51
			that there is truth, partial truth, and falsehood
		
00:59:52 --> 00:59:53
			in many of these books.
		
00:59:53 --> 00:59:55
			This is only logical. This is reasonable. It
		
00:59:55 --> 00:59:57
			is historically unreasonable
		
00:59:58 --> 00:59:59
			to claim that only Matthew, Mark, Luke and
		
00:59:59 --> 01:00:01
			John are absolutely 100%
		
01:00:02 --> 01:00:04
			entirely true. And that all other texts that
		
01:00:04 --> 01:00:07
			contain Jesus' purported statements or describe events during
		
01:00:07 --> 01:00:10
			his life are all absolutely 100% entirely false.
		
01:00:10 --> 01:00:10
			That is unreasonable.
		
01:00:11 --> 01:00:13
			Okay? Now if Christians want to believe that
		
01:00:13 --> 01:00:16
			on faith, okay, fine. Okay. They can believe
		
01:00:16 --> 01:00:18
			whatever they want on faith. But don't tell
		
01:00:18 --> 01:00:19
			me that I have to take that on
		
01:00:19 --> 01:00:20
			faith, I don't.
		
01:00:21 --> 01:00:22
			I'm going to use reason.
		
01:00:22 --> 01:00:25
			Evidence demonstrates that the entire Quran has a
		
01:00:25 --> 01:00:26
			Muhammadan provenance.
		
01:00:27 --> 01:00:28
			The text of the Quran goes back to
		
01:00:28 --> 01:00:30
			the Prophet according to the vast majority of
		
01:00:30 --> 01:00:30
			secular
		
01:00:31 --> 01:00:32
			historians. They do not say the same thing
		
01:00:32 --> 01:00:33
			about the Gospels,
		
01:00:34 --> 01:00:36
			when it comes to Jesus. Now Clement of
		
01:00:36 --> 01:00:36
			Alexandria,
		
01:00:37 --> 01:00:39
			one of the most celebrated
		
01:00:39 --> 01:00:40
			proto orthodox
		
01:00:40 --> 01:00:41
			church fathers,
		
01:00:42 --> 01:00:45
			Clement cited apocryphal, quote apocryphal gospels
		
01:00:45 --> 01:00:48
			in his writings along with quote canonical gospels.
		
01:00:48 --> 01:00:51
			Because he believed that the former contained truth.
		
01:00:52 --> 01:00:53
			This is reasonable.
		
01:00:53 --> 01:00:55
			He was reasonable in this regard.
		
01:00:55 --> 01:00:58
			Of course, there is gospel truth outside the
		
01:00:58 --> 01:00:58
			New Testament.
		
01:00:59 --> 01:01:01
			Even Ehrman said that there are statements of
		
01:01:01 --> 01:01:02
			Jesus in the gospel of Thomas
		
01:01:02 --> 01:01:04
			that are in direct continuity
		
01:01:04 --> 01:01:05
			with Jesus.
		
01:01:05 --> 01:01:08
			There are statements attributed to Jesus found in
		
01:01:08 --> 01:01:10
			the gospel of Thomas that are more continuous
		
01:01:10 --> 01:01:13
			with the teachings of the historical Jesus
		
01:01:13 --> 01:01:15
			than what Paul was teaching in the 50s,
		
01:01:15 --> 01:01:16
			in the 1st century.
		
01:01:17 --> 01:01:19
			And he specifically mentions the gospel of Thomas
		
01:01:19 --> 01:01:20
			and the gospel of Peter
		
01:01:21 --> 01:01:22
			as being historically valuable.
		
01:01:23 --> 01:01:24
			So to summarize this section,
		
01:01:25 --> 01:01:27
			the New Testament canon was not officially
		
01:01:27 --> 01:01:30
			and definitively closed until after Islam.
		
01:01:31 --> 01:01:31
			Secondly,
		
01:01:32 --> 01:01:34
			there were Christians even of the proto orthodox
		
01:01:34 --> 01:01:37
			persuade them that differed greatly
		
01:01:37 --> 01:01:39
			as to which books were in and which
		
01:01:39 --> 01:01:40
			books were out. So let me give you
		
01:01:40 --> 01:01:43
			an example. The oldest complete manuscript of the
		
01:01:43 --> 01:01:45
			New Testament in existence
		
01:01:45 --> 01:01:47
			is called the Codex Sinaiticus.
		
01:01:48 --> 01:01:50
			Okay? It's dated to about 350, 375.
		
01:01:51 --> 01:01:54
			It was discovered at Saint Catherine's Monastery
		
01:01:54 --> 01:01:56
			at the base of Mount Sinai by a
		
01:01:56 --> 01:01:59
			professor and explorer named Konstantin von Tischendorf,
		
01:02:00 --> 01:02:02
			who was the inspiration for Indiana Jones, by
		
01:02:02 --> 01:02:03
			the way.
		
01:02:03 --> 01:02:05
			Right. I didn't know
		
01:02:05 --> 01:02:07
			that. Oh, yeah. Indiana Jones, another franchise That's
		
01:02:07 --> 01:02:10
			a good idea. By the way by the
		
01:02:10 --> 01:02:11
			woke mob.
		
01:02:11 --> 01:02:11
			Now
		
01:02:12 --> 01:02:14
			that's a different issue. Now let me give
		
01:02:14 --> 01:02:15
			you a hypothetical
		
01:02:15 --> 01:02:16
			scenario here.
		
01:02:16 --> 01:02:19
			Okay? Hypothetical scenario. Imagine
		
01:02:19 --> 01:02:22
			that I gave a lecture at a university
		
01:02:22 --> 01:02:23
			called, what is Christianity?
		
01:02:24 --> 01:02:26
			Okay? That's the name of my lecture. And
		
01:02:26 --> 01:02:28
			there are many Christians in the audience. Now
		
01:02:28 --> 01:02:29
			imagine I said to the Christians,
		
01:02:30 --> 01:02:33
			and imagine now imagine I said that Christians
		
01:02:33 --> 01:02:34
			believe
		
01:02:34 --> 01:02:37
			that the Jews completely misunderstood
		
01:02:38 --> 01:02:39
			the dietary laws of the Torah.
		
01:02:41 --> 01:02:42
			That the dietary laws were never meant to
		
01:02:42 --> 01:02:45
			be taken literal, but always rather
		
01:02:45 --> 01:02:45
			figurative.
		
01:02:46 --> 01:02:47
			So don't eat pigs
		
01:02:48 --> 01:02:50
			means don't associate with people who are like
		
01:02:50 --> 01:02:51
			pigs.
		
01:02:51 --> 01:02:53
			Don't eat hyenas means not to be a
		
01:02:53 --> 01:02:56
			pervert because the hyena changes its its nature
		
01:02:56 --> 01:02:58
			every year. At one time, it's male. The
		
01:02:58 --> 01:03:00
			next time, it's female. Gender fluid. Don't be
		
01:03:00 --> 01:03:02
			like that. Okay. And don't even get me
		
01:03:02 --> 01:03:03
			started on the weasel.
		
01:03:03 --> 01:03:05
			Okay? So imagine I imagine I said those
		
01:03:05 --> 01:03:06
			things,
		
01:03:06 --> 01:03:09
			just like that. I would probably get confronted
		
01:03:09 --> 01:03:12
			by Christian or 2 who would say,
		
01:03:12 --> 01:03:14
			what what on earth are you talking about?
		
01:03:14 --> 01:03:16
			That's not true. You're misrepresenting
		
01:03:16 --> 01:03:17
			Christianity.
		
01:03:17 --> 01:03:19
			Where are you getting this from?
		
01:03:19 --> 01:03:20
			And I would
		
01:03:21 --> 01:03:22
			say from Christian
		
01:03:22 --> 01:03:23
			scripture,
		
01:03:23 --> 01:03:24
			the epistle of Barnabas.
		
01:03:25 --> 01:03:28
			Then he would probably flip through his NIV
		
01:03:28 --> 01:03:30
			or his RSV or his KJV
		
01:03:31 --> 01:03:33
			and say, that's not in my bible. That's
		
01:03:33 --> 01:03:34
			apocryphal.
		
01:03:34 --> 01:03:37
			And then I would say, according to whom?
		
01:03:37 --> 01:03:39
			According to the Council of Trent in the
		
01:03:39 --> 01:03:40
			16th century,
		
01:03:40 --> 01:03:43
			yes, it's apocryphal. But not according to the
		
01:03:43 --> 01:03:45
			compilers of the Codex Sinaiticus
		
01:03:45 --> 01:03:47
			in the 4th century.
		
01:03:47 --> 01:03:48
			It is in their canon
		
01:03:49 --> 01:03:51
			and it's the oldest complete New Testament.
		
01:03:51 --> 01:03:53
			In other words, the actual claim of the
		
01:03:53 --> 01:03:54
			modern Christian
		
01:03:54 --> 01:03:55
			is that our understanding
		
01:03:56 --> 01:03:57
			of Jesus improved
		
01:03:57 --> 01:04:00
			as we move forward in time. Right? The
		
01:04:00 --> 01:04:03
			New Testament of 16th century onward, is more
		
01:04:03 --> 01:04:04
			accurate of its depiction
		
01:04:05 --> 01:04:06
			of Jesus's teachings
		
01:04:06 --> 01:04:08
			than the Codex Sinaiticus
		
01:04:08 --> 01:04:10
			written in the 4th century. This is the
		
01:04:10 --> 01:04:12
			Christian claim. Okay, fine. So something can actually
		
01:04:12 --> 01:04:14
			improve in its accuracy with the passage of
		
01:04:14 --> 01:04:17
			time. The New Testament did. Okay, fine. Then
		
01:04:17 --> 01:04:19
			so did our understanding of Jesus with the
		
01:04:19 --> 01:04:20
			Quran.
		
01:04:21 --> 01:04:23
			The Quran is more accurate than the gospel
		
01:04:23 --> 01:04:25
			authors, than what the gospel authors
		
01:04:25 --> 01:04:28
			is depicting as the teachings of Jesus. So
		
01:04:28 --> 01:04:30
			don't give me the 600 years later business
		
01:04:30 --> 01:04:32
			that they usually do. Right?
		
01:04:32 --> 01:04:33
			Now I agree
		
01:04:34 --> 01:04:36
			that the historical Jesus of Nazareth
		
01:04:37 --> 01:04:39
			probably did not teach what the epistle of
		
01:04:39 --> 01:04:40
			Barnabas was teaching.
		
01:04:41 --> 01:04:43
			Okay, but I also don't think that Jesus
		
01:04:43 --> 01:04:45
			was teaching the Trinity,
		
01:04:45 --> 01:04:46
			or his own divinity.
		
01:04:47 --> 01:04:49
			So my point is, there were early Christians,
		
01:04:50 --> 01:04:51
			even among the proto orthodox,
		
01:04:52 --> 01:04:53
			who believed in teachings
		
01:04:54 --> 01:04:55
			that are found outside
		
01:04:56 --> 01:04:57
			what would become
		
01:04:58 --> 01:04:59
			the New Testament canon.
		
01:05:00 --> 01:05:00
			Okay.
		
01:05:01 --> 01:05:02
			So let's look at our next questions.
		
01:05:03 --> 01:05:06
			Does quoting, paraphrasing, or partially agreeing
		
01:05:07 --> 01:05:09
			with a story or a statement in an
		
01:05:09 --> 01:05:10
			apocryphal text
		
01:05:10 --> 01:05:13
			necessarily mean that that story or statement
		
01:05:13 --> 01:05:14
			cannot be true?
		
01:05:15 --> 01:05:17
			That's the first question. Next question. Does this
		
01:05:17 --> 01:05:17
			necessitate
		
01:05:19 --> 01:05:20
			that the apocryphal
		
01:05:21 --> 01:05:22
			text in its entirety
		
01:05:23 --> 01:05:24
			is true?
		
01:05:24 --> 01:05:27
			In other words, is every single statement or
		
01:05:27 --> 01:05:27
			hadith
		
01:05:28 --> 01:05:30
			of Jesus quoted in the gospel of Thomas
		
01:05:31 --> 01:05:32
			necessarily false
		
01:05:34 --> 01:05:35
			because the church
		
01:05:36 --> 01:05:38
			declared the gospel of Thomas to be heresy.
		
01:05:40 --> 01:05:42
			And if I quote an individual statement from
		
01:05:42 --> 01:05:43
			Thomas
		
01:05:43 --> 01:05:45
			and believe that it is accurate, does that
		
01:05:45 --> 01:05:47
			mean that I have to accept or I
		
01:05:47 --> 01:05:49
			do accept the entire gospel
		
01:05:49 --> 01:05:50
			as being accurate?
		
01:05:51 --> 01:05:53
			So in the Quran, we're told that Mary
		
01:05:53 --> 01:05:54
			gave birth under a palm tree,
		
01:05:55 --> 01:05:57
			that Jesus spoke as an infant,
		
01:05:58 --> 01:06:00
			that Jesus fashioned clay into the figure of
		
01:06:00 --> 01:06:02
			bird and gave life to them by God's
		
01:06:02 --> 01:06:03
			permission.
		
01:06:03 --> 01:06:05
			That God provided food for Mary, presumably through
		
01:06:05 --> 01:06:06
			angels.
		
01:06:06 --> 01:06:08
			And that Jesus was not crucified. Now, the
		
01:06:08 --> 01:06:10
			latter we dealt with already. So we won't
		
01:06:10 --> 01:06:11
			look at that today.
		
01:06:11 --> 01:06:14
			So here the Christian polemicist and orientalist will
		
01:06:14 --> 01:06:17
			claim that the prophet lifted these stories directly
		
01:06:17 --> 01:06:19
			from the gospel of pseudo Matthew.
		
01:06:21 --> 01:06:23
			The Syriac Infancy Gospel, also known as the
		
01:06:23 --> 01:06:24
			Arabic Infancy Gospel,
		
01:06:25 --> 01:06:27
			the Infancy Gospel of Thomas, and the proto
		
01:06:27 --> 01:06:29
			gospel of James respectively. And I'll deal with
		
01:06:29 --> 01:06:30
			these in turn, insha'Allah.
		
01:06:32 --> 01:06:34
			But let me repeat our questions. Does quoting,
		
01:06:34 --> 01:06:36
			paraphrasing or partially agreeing
		
01:06:36 --> 01:06:38
			with a story or statement
		
01:06:38 --> 01:06:41
			in an apocryphal text necessarily mean that that
		
01:06:41 --> 01:06:44
			story or statement cannot be true? Does this
		
01:06:44 --> 01:06:44
			necessitate
		
01:06:45 --> 01:06:47
			that the apocryphal text in its entirety is
		
01:06:47 --> 01:06:48
			true?
		
01:06:48 --> 01:06:49
			Okay. Now,
		
01:06:50 --> 01:06:51
			the author of the book of Jude
		
01:06:52 --> 01:06:53
			in the New Testament
		
01:06:54 --> 01:06:55
			quoted directly
		
01:06:56 --> 01:06:57
			from 1st Enoch 1/9
		
01:06:58 --> 01:06:59
			in Jude 1/14.
		
01:07:00 --> 01:07:02
			1st Enoch was not written by Enoch,
		
01:07:02 --> 01:07:05
			according to all biblical scholars. 1st Enoch is
		
01:07:05 --> 01:07:06
			not canonical.
		
01:07:06 --> 01:07:08
			In fact, 1st Enoch is heresy.
		
01:07:09 --> 01:07:11
			Yet patristic authorities such as Justin, Irenaeus,
		
01:07:12 --> 01:07:12
			Tertullian,
		
01:07:13 --> 01:07:15
			they cited First Enoch in their writings. Actually,
		
01:07:15 --> 01:07:17
			Tertullian explicitly called it scripture.
		
01:07:17 --> 01:07:20
			These were proto orthodox authorities, the salaf of
		
01:07:20 --> 01:07:20
			the Trinitarian.
		
01:07:22 --> 01:07:23
			In 1st Enoch,
		
01:07:25 --> 01:07:27
			Enoch is unequivocally told,
		
01:07:28 --> 01:07:30
			you are the son of man. So according
		
01:07:30 --> 01:07:31
			to first Enoch,
		
01:07:32 --> 01:07:34
			Enoch was a messianic figure who preexisted
		
01:07:35 --> 01:07:37
			as an angel before coming to earth as
		
01:07:37 --> 01:07:40
			a man. He was raptured into heaven by
		
01:07:40 --> 01:07:41
			God, and finally
		
01:07:41 --> 01:07:43
			exalted the chief angel and the throne enthroned
		
01:07:44 --> 01:07:45
			as a divine judge. So you have his
		
01:07:45 --> 01:07:48
			translation of the heaven, his exaltation, eventual apotheosis.
		
01:07:49 --> 01:07:52
			So despite the book of Enoch explicitly identifying
		
01:07:52 --> 01:07:53
			Enoch
		
01:07:53 --> 01:07:56
			as the son of man of Daniel 7
		
01:07:56 --> 01:07:57
			and not Jesus,
		
01:07:57 --> 01:07:59
			many early Christians viewed it as an authority
		
01:08:00 --> 01:08:01
			and
		
01:08:01 --> 01:08:02
			quote from its passages.
		
01:08:03 --> 01:08:05
			So here's a question. If 1st Enoch is
		
01:08:05 --> 01:08:06
			heresy according to Christians,
		
01:08:07 --> 01:08:09
			why did the author of Jude, whom Christians
		
01:08:09 --> 01:08:11
			believed to be inspired by God,
		
01:08:12 --> 01:08:16
			quote, a heretical book. Did God inspire Jude
		
01:08:16 --> 01:08:17
			to quote heresy?
		
01:08:18 --> 01:08:19
			The Christian response is,
		
01:08:20 --> 01:08:23
			no, because not all of first Enoch
		
01:08:23 --> 01:08:24
			is heresy.
		
01:08:25 --> 01:08:26
			Ah, okay.
		
01:08:26 --> 01:08:28
			So now we're getting somewhere.
		
01:08:29 --> 01:08:31
			Jude also confirmed a story found in an
		
01:08:31 --> 01:08:34
			apocryphal text known as the Assumption of Moses.
		
01:08:35 --> 01:08:37
			Most people know the Enoch reference in Jude,
		
01:08:37 --> 01:08:38
			but not this one.
		
01:08:38 --> 01:08:40
			Now I want to tell you a story.
		
01:08:40 --> 01:08:43
			Several years ago, I was dialoguing with a
		
01:08:43 --> 01:08:45
			Christian man who was trying to convince me
		
01:08:45 --> 01:08:47
			that the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him,
		
01:08:47 --> 01:08:49
			borrowed, as he put it, a story
		
01:08:49 --> 01:08:52
			from the Infancy Gospel of Thomas, right? The
		
01:08:52 --> 01:08:53
			incident of the clay birds, etcetera.
		
01:08:54 --> 01:08:56
			And again, I'll deal with that text later.
		
01:08:56 --> 01:08:58
			But anyway, he said, my Christian interlocutor,
		
01:08:59 --> 01:09:01
			he said that, Oh, that story was late.
		
01:09:02 --> 01:09:03
			It was pseudepigraphal.
		
01:09:03 --> 01:09:04
			And it was a fable.
		
01:09:05 --> 01:09:06
			And yet the Prophet mentioned
		
01:09:06 --> 01:09:08
			it in the Quran and said that the
		
01:09:08 --> 01:09:09
			Quran was divinely inspired.
		
01:09:10 --> 01:09:12
			So I said to him, and I knew
		
01:09:12 --> 01:09:14
			that he most likely, Jude very closely. Most
		
01:09:14 --> 01:09:16
			Christians probably don't. The the focus is on
		
01:09:16 --> 01:09:16
			the Pauline epistles and the gospels. So I
		
01:09:16 --> 01:09:16
			said to him
		
01:09:21 --> 01:09:23
			I said, did you know that when Moses
		
01:09:23 --> 01:09:24
			died,
		
01:09:24 --> 01:09:26
			the devil and the archangel Michael had a
		
01:09:26 --> 01:09:28
			dispute about his body?
		
01:09:28 --> 01:09:31
			And Michael ended up rebuking the devil? Did
		
01:09:31 --> 01:09:33
			you know that? And I remember
		
01:09:33 --> 01:09:35
			he looked at me with a puzzled expression.
		
01:09:36 --> 01:09:37
			And then I said, well, that's what the
		
01:09:37 --> 01:09:39
			assumption of Moses says.
		
01:09:40 --> 01:09:41
			He said, what's that?
		
01:09:41 --> 01:09:43
			When was that? And I said, it was
		
01:09:43 --> 01:09:45
			probably written in the 1st century BCE or
		
01:09:45 --> 01:09:46
			the 1st century CE.
		
01:09:47 --> 01:09:48
			So he looked even more puzzled.
		
01:09:49 --> 01:09:50
			So I said to him, would you consider
		
01:09:50 --> 01:09:51
			that text
		
01:09:51 --> 01:09:53
			late and pseudepigraphal?
		
01:09:53 --> 01:09:55
			And would you consider that story to be
		
01:09:55 --> 01:09:57
			probably a fable? And And he said, yes.
		
01:09:58 --> 01:10:00
			So I said, well, Jude did not.
		
01:10:00 --> 01:10:01
			Jude
		
01:10:01 --> 01:10:04
			confirmed it in Jude chapter 1 verse 9.
		
01:10:04 --> 01:10:06
			And the book of Jude is a canonized
		
01:10:07 --> 01:10:08
			book of scripture
		
01:10:08 --> 01:10:10
			in the New Testament, which according to you
		
01:10:10 --> 01:10:11
			is inspired by God.
		
01:10:12 --> 01:10:14
			So many of these Christian polemicists employed, you
		
01:10:14 --> 01:10:16
			know, a double standard. Double standard. Yeah. A
		
01:10:16 --> 01:10:19
			little hypocrisy. You know, this group of polemicists
		
01:10:19 --> 01:10:21
			is like this brood of vipers that just
		
01:10:21 --> 01:10:22
			never learns. They don't see the plank in
		
01:10:22 --> 01:10:24
			their own eyes. You know, it's this hermeneutic
		
01:10:24 --> 01:10:27
			of suspicion and hermeneutic of acceptance all over
		
01:10:27 --> 01:10:28
			again, you know, even today. In other words,
		
01:10:28 --> 01:10:31
			whatever the prophet Mohammed does is base and
		
01:10:31 --> 01:10:34
			vile and deceitful. But whatever their religious figures
		
01:10:34 --> 01:10:37
			do is noble and inspired and truthful.
		
01:10:37 --> 01:10:39
			You know? You know, at least the Infancy
		
01:10:39 --> 01:10:42
			Gospel of Thomas was written within a 100
		
01:10:42 --> 01:10:44
			years or so of Jesus. The assumption of
		
01:10:44 --> 01:10:46
			Moses was written about 1500 years
		
01:10:46 --> 01:10:47
			after Moses,
		
01:10:48 --> 01:10:50
			and Jude quotes it as an authority.
		
01:10:51 --> 01:10:52
			Here's another example.
		
01:10:53 --> 01:10:54
			The the author of the book of 2nd
		
01:10:54 --> 01:10:55
			Timothy,
		
01:10:55 --> 01:10:58
			right, claims to be Paul. However, most historians
		
01:10:58 --> 01:11:00
			believe the author is pretending to be Paul.
		
01:11:00 --> 01:11:02
			In other words, he's forging a letter in
		
01:11:02 --> 01:11:04
			Paul's name. This is according to the vast
		
01:11:04 --> 01:11:07
			majority of critical scholars. But let's grant, okay,
		
01:11:07 --> 01:11:09
			Paul wrote it. No problem. Paul wrote, you
		
01:11:09 --> 01:11:10
			know, 2nd Timothy.
		
01:11:11 --> 01:11:12
			Now listen to what Paul says in 2nd
		
01:11:12 --> 01:11:13
			Timothy,
		
01:11:13 --> 01:11:15
			chapter 3, verse 8. He says,
		
01:11:16 --> 01:11:19
			and I quote, and Janus and Jambres
		
01:11:20 --> 01:11:21
			oppose Moses.
		
01:11:22 --> 01:11:24
			So these people of corrupt mind and counterfeit
		
01:11:24 --> 01:11:26
			faith also oppose the truth. So one more
		
01:11:26 --> 01:11:28
			time. And Janus and Jambres
		
01:11:29 --> 01:11:29
			oppose Moses.
		
01:11:30 --> 01:11:32
			So these people of corrupt mind and counterfeit
		
01:11:32 --> 01:11:34
			faith also oppose the truth. Who in the
		
01:11:34 --> 01:11:35
			world
		
01:11:35 --> 01:11:37
			are Janus and Jambres?
		
01:11:38 --> 01:11:40
			Now, you can go to any Bible concordance
		
01:11:41 --> 01:11:43
			and type in Janus and Chambras.
		
01:11:44 --> 01:11:45
			And I promise you that they are not
		
01:11:45 --> 01:11:47
			mentioned anywhere in the whole of the Hebrew
		
01:11:47 --> 01:11:48
			Bible,
		
01:11:48 --> 01:11:51
			nowhere in the canonical Tanakh.
		
01:11:52 --> 01:11:53
			So where did Paul get these names?
		
01:11:54 --> 01:11:56
			Maybe he was given these names by the
		
01:11:56 --> 01:11:56
			Holy Spirit,
		
01:11:57 --> 01:11:59
			and they were previously unknown.
		
01:11:59 --> 01:12:01
			A Christian might make this claim.
		
01:12:01 --> 01:12:04
			Okay, that's his faith conviction. If he thinks
		
01:12:04 --> 01:12:06
			that there are good reasons for believing Paul's
		
01:12:06 --> 01:12:08
			claim of receiving divine revelation. I don't, but
		
01:12:08 --> 01:12:10
			maybe he does. But that would be a
		
01:12:10 --> 01:12:12
			different discussion. But just looking at the context
		
01:12:12 --> 01:12:15
			of 2nd Timothy chapter 3, I think it's
		
01:12:15 --> 01:12:17
			abundantly clear that Paul believed that his readers
		
01:12:17 --> 01:12:20
			were already familiar with these names, Jannes and
		
01:12:20 --> 01:12:21
			Jambres.
		
01:12:22 --> 01:12:23
			And as it turns out,
		
01:12:23 --> 01:12:25
			there was a text written in the 1st
		
01:12:25 --> 01:12:25
			century,
		
01:12:27 --> 01:12:27
			Apocryphon
		
01:12:28 --> 01:12:30
			of Janus and Jambres. Origin of Alexandria
		
01:12:31 --> 01:12:32
			in the 3rd century,
		
01:12:33 --> 01:12:34
			okay, referenced it,
		
01:12:35 --> 01:12:37
			as the source of 2nd Timothy 3:8. Of
		
01:12:37 --> 01:12:40
			course, Origen, who is an extremely influential church
		
01:12:40 --> 01:12:41
			father, would later be anathematized
		
01:12:42 --> 01:12:44
			by the Catholic church in 553,
		
01:12:45 --> 01:12:47
			Constantinople 2. So Janus and Jambres
		
01:12:48 --> 01:12:50
			were the names of 2 of the magicians
		
01:12:51 --> 01:12:54
			in the court of pharaoh who opposed Moses.
		
01:12:55 --> 01:12:57
			Now according to this text, the Apocryphon of
		
01:12:57 --> 01:12:58
			Janus and Jambres,
		
01:12:58 --> 01:13:01
			when Janus died, his brother Jambres
		
01:13:02 --> 01:13:04
			was able to, summon his soul from Hades,
		
01:13:04 --> 01:13:05
			from Shaul,
		
01:13:05 --> 01:13:07
			by using a spell he had found in
		
01:13:07 --> 01:13:08
			one of his books of magic. So so
		
01:13:08 --> 01:13:10
			Jambres was a necromancer, basically.
		
01:13:11 --> 01:13:13
			And then the soul of Janes from beyond
		
01:13:13 --> 01:13:14
			the grave while experiencing
		
01:13:15 --> 01:13:16
			burning torment,
		
01:13:16 --> 01:13:18
			warned his brother, Jambrace,
		
01:13:18 --> 01:13:20
			not to contend with Moses
		
01:13:21 --> 01:13:22
			and Aaron.
		
01:13:22 --> 01:13:25
			So here's my question. Should I immediately consider
		
01:13:25 --> 01:13:27
			Paul of Tarsus to be a fraud
		
01:13:27 --> 01:13:29
			simply because he mentions the names Janus and
		
01:13:29 --> 01:13:30
			Jambres,
		
01:13:30 --> 01:13:32
			names found in an apocryphal text written in
		
01:13:32 --> 01:13:35
			the 1st century, some 1500 years removed from
		
01:13:35 --> 01:13:37
			Moses? Should I consider him a plagiarist and
		
01:13:37 --> 01:13:38
			a fableist?
		
01:13:39 --> 01:13:41
			Based on this alone, I would not jump
		
01:13:41 --> 01:13:42
			to that conclusion.
		
01:13:42 --> 01:13:44
			Why? Because it's possible
		
01:13:45 --> 01:13:47
			that the apocryphon of Janus and Jambres was
		
01:13:47 --> 01:13:50
			not Paul's directly direct literary source.
		
01:13:51 --> 01:13:53
			But even if it was, that that does
		
01:13:53 --> 01:13:55
			not immediately invalidate Paul.
		
01:13:55 --> 01:13:58
			Okay. Alternatively, it's still it's still possible,
		
01:13:59 --> 01:13:59
			although unlikely,
		
01:14:00 --> 01:14:03
			that these two names were passed down orally
		
01:14:03 --> 01:14:05
			for 15 centuries
		
01:14:05 --> 01:14:08
			among the Jews. And Paul was just kind
		
01:14:08 --> 01:14:09
			of drawing from that popular
		
01:14:10 --> 01:14:10
			oral tradition.
		
01:14:11 --> 01:14:13
			Mhmm. Right? That Paul never even heard of
		
01:14:13 --> 01:14:15
			the Apocryphon of Janus and Jambres.
		
01:14:16 --> 01:14:18
			But here comes the here comes the hypocrisy.
		
01:14:19 --> 01:14:21
			When the Quran seems to confirm a story
		
01:14:22 --> 01:14:24
			about Jesus or Mary found in an apocryphal
		
01:14:24 --> 01:14:27
			Christian text, The prophet Muhammad is often called
		
01:14:27 --> 01:14:29
			a fraud, a forger, a fableist,
		
01:14:30 --> 01:14:30
			a plagiarist,
		
01:14:31 --> 01:14:34
			okay, etcetera. But there's a difference. The Christian
		
01:14:34 --> 01:14:37
			apocryphal texts and the word apocryphal is in
		
01:14:37 --> 01:14:39
			quotes, because again, there was no definitive and
		
01:14:39 --> 01:14:42
			official apocrypha in Christianity until after Islam.
		
01:14:43 --> 01:14:46
			So the Christian so called apocryphal texts that
		
01:14:46 --> 01:14:48
			mentioned these stories that are seemingly also found
		
01:14:48 --> 01:14:50
			in the Quran are only a 100 to
		
01:14:50 --> 01:14:52
			a 130 years removed from Jesus.
		
01:14:53 --> 01:14:56
			While Paul's apparent source, the Apocryphon of Janus
		
01:14:56 --> 01:14:57
			and Jambres
		
01:14:57 --> 01:14:58
			was 1500
		
01:14:58 --> 01:14:59
			years removed
		
01:15:00 --> 01:15:01
			from Moses.
		
01:15:02 --> 01:15:04
			Now again, somebody might say, but it doesn't
		
01:15:04 --> 01:15:06
			come from direct literary dependence
		
01:15:07 --> 01:15:09
			upon a specific text, but from an oral
		
01:15:09 --> 01:15:09
			tradition.
		
01:15:10 --> 01:15:13
			Okay, so which scenario is more plausible historically?
		
01:15:14 --> 01:15:17
			That an authentic oral tradition about Janus and
		
01:15:17 --> 01:15:20
			Jambres was passed down for 15 centuries,
		
01:15:20 --> 01:15:22
			from the time of Moses to the author
		
01:15:22 --> 01:15:23
			of the Apocryphon,
		
01:15:24 --> 01:15:27
			okay. Or that an authentic oral tradition about
		
01:15:27 --> 01:15:29
			Jesus or Mary was passed down for 1
		
01:15:29 --> 01:15:30
			century
		
01:15:30 --> 01:15:32
			from Jesus and his disciples to let's say
		
01:15:32 --> 01:15:34
			the author of the proto gospel of James.
		
01:15:34 --> 01:15:36
			Which is more plausible
		
01:15:36 --> 01:15:37
			historically?
		
01:15:38 --> 01:15:39
			Let's take one example.
		
01:15:40 --> 01:15:42
			Angels feeding Mary in the temple. So this
		
01:15:42 --> 01:15:44
			is mentioned in the proto gospel of James
		
01:15:45 --> 01:15:47
			and seemingly in the Quran. And we'll examine
		
01:15:47 --> 01:15:49
			this text in detail a bit later, insha'Allah.
		
01:15:50 --> 01:15:51
			But here's what I think happened. And this
		
01:15:51 --> 01:15:52
			is absolutely
		
01:15:53 --> 01:15:54
			plausible, reasonable, and logical.
		
01:15:55 --> 01:15:57
			Okay? So at the end of Jesus' life,
		
01:15:58 --> 01:15:58
			okay,
		
01:15:59 --> 01:16:01
			of course, you know, Muslims and Christians maintain
		
01:16:01 --> 01:16:02
			that he ascended.
		
01:16:03 --> 01:16:05
			Most secular historians maintain that he was probably
		
01:16:05 --> 01:16:07
			buried in a common grave somewhere outside the
		
01:16:07 --> 01:16:09
			city, and that was the end of Jesus.
		
01:16:09 --> 01:16:11
			Whatever your position is, at the end of
		
01:16:11 --> 01:16:12
			his life,
		
01:16:12 --> 01:16:15
			several people who believed in Jesus' messiahship in
		
01:16:15 --> 01:16:16
			some way
		
01:16:16 --> 01:16:19
			told a story about Mary being attended to
		
01:16:19 --> 01:16:20
			by angels
		
01:16:20 --> 01:16:23
			prior to the birth of Jesus leading up
		
01:16:23 --> 01:16:24
			to the annunciation.
		
01:16:24 --> 01:16:27
			Is this plausible? Is it plausible that this
		
01:16:27 --> 01:16:29
			story was being told? Of course. Several decades
		
01:16:29 --> 01:16:30
			then go by.
		
01:16:31 --> 01:16:32
			Several decades of oral tradition.
		
01:16:33 --> 01:16:36
			The story is told and retold and most
		
01:16:36 --> 01:16:38
			likely modified a little bit from mouth to
		
01:16:38 --> 01:16:40
			mouth, decade after decade.
		
01:16:40 --> 01:16:42
			Then this story, for some reason,
		
01:16:43 --> 01:16:45
			did not end up in what would eventually
		
01:16:45 --> 01:16:47
			be called Matthew, Mark, Luke or John. Why?
		
01:16:47 --> 01:16:49
			Well, there are a number of tenable reasons.
		
01:16:50 --> 01:16:52
			Perhaps their authors had not heard of it,
		
01:16:53 --> 01:16:56
			because they lived in different geographical locations.
		
01:16:56 --> 01:16:58
			Perhaps they knew of it, but they did
		
01:16:58 --> 01:17:00
			not agree with it for theological reasons.
		
01:17:02 --> 01:17:04
			Perhaps they knew of it, but did not
		
01:17:04 --> 01:17:06
			want to place the focus on Mary, but
		
01:17:06 --> 01:17:08
			rather on Jesus. Of course, in the Quran,
		
01:17:08 --> 01:17:10
			Mary, peace be upon her, is a highly
		
01:17:10 --> 01:17:12
			respected and revered figure.
		
01:17:12 --> 01:17:14
			So there is focus on Mary in the
		
01:17:14 --> 01:17:14
			Quran.
		
01:17:15 --> 01:17:17
			Now from a Christian perspective, what I just
		
01:17:17 --> 01:17:19
			explained is totally plausible.
		
01:17:20 --> 01:17:20
			Why?
		
01:17:21 --> 01:17:21
			Well,
		
01:17:22 --> 01:17:24
			first of all, Christians must believe
		
01:17:25 --> 01:17:27
			that there are many true stories about Jesus
		
01:17:28 --> 01:17:30
			that are not found in the gospel.
		
01:17:30 --> 01:17:33
			They have to believe this, why? Because the
		
01:17:33 --> 01:17:36
			author of the gospel of John, whom Christians
		
01:17:36 --> 01:17:38
			believe was inspired by the Holy Spirit,
		
01:17:38 --> 01:17:42
			says so. Jesus did many other things as
		
01:17:42 --> 01:17:44
			well. If every one of them were written
		
01:17:44 --> 01:17:46
			down, I suppose that even the whole cosmos
		
01:17:46 --> 01:17:48
			will not have room for the books that
		
01:17:48 --> 01:17:50
			would be written. There is potential truth outside
		
01:17:50 --> 01:17:52
			of the 4 gospels by admission of the
		
01:17:52 --> 01:17:55
			Holy Spirit, if you believe that the gospel
		
01:17:55 --> 01:17:57
			of John was inspired by the Holy Spirit.
		
01:17:57 --> 01:17:58
			But But here, we don't need the Holy
		
01:17:58 --> 01:18:00
			Spirit to tell us. This is true according
		
01:18:00 --> 01:18:01
			to reason
		
01:18:01 --> 01:18:03
			and common sense.
		
01:18:03 --> 01:18:05
			From a more historical perspective,
		
01:18:06 --> 01:18:07
			we know that even the q source
		
01:18:08 --> 01:18:08
			document
		
01:18:09 --> 01:18:10
			predated Mark.
		
01:18:10 --> 01:18:12
			And Mark did not use it according to
		
01:18:12 --> 01:18:15
			the dominant position. Why didn't Mark use q?
		
01:18:15 --> 01:18:17
			Well, the same possible reasons that I just
		
01:18:17 --> 01:18:19
			mentioned. Maybe Mark had not known of q
		
01:18:19 --> 01:18:21
			because he was in a different place. Maybe
		
01:18:22 --> 01:18:24
			he knew of Q, but did not agree
		
01:18:24 --> 01:18:26
			with its content for theological reasons.
		
01:18:27 --> 01:18:29
			We know that many of the Luke and
		
01:18:29 --> 01:18:31
			Jesus's most celebrated stories and parables
		
01:18:32 --> 01:18:34
			in the travel narrative of Luke. So this
		
01:18:34 --> 01:18:35
			is Luke
		
01:18:35 --> 01:18:37
			chapter 9 to 19.
		
01:18:37 --> 01:18:38
			Many of these
		
01:18:39 --> 01:18:40
			stories and parables
		
01:18:41 --> 01:18:44
			were not recorded by Mark, Matthew, or John.
		
01:18:44 --> 01:18:46
			The good Samaritan, the Pharisee and the tax
		
01:18:46 --> 01:18:50
			collector, Abraham and Lazarus, The prodigal son. None
		
01:18:50 --> 01:18:52
			of these are in Mark, Matthew or John.
		
01:18:52 --> 01:18:54
			My point is, just because a certain story
		
01:18:54 --> 01:18:55
			about Jesus
		
01:18:55 --> 01:18:57
			or statement of Jesus is found in one
		
01:18:57 --> 01:18:58
			gospel,
		
01:18:58 --> 01:19:00
			that does not mean that it is necessarily
		
01:19:00 --> 01:19:01
			false
		
01:19:02 --> 01:19:05
			historically. So by false here, I mean something
		
01:19:05 --> 01:19:08
			that was not passed down from the 1st
		
01:19:08 --> 01:19:11
			believers in Jesus. Like obviously, a secular historian
		
01:19:11 --> 01:19:13
			would not agree with the content of the
		
01:19:13 --> 01:19:14
			story
		
01:19:15 --> 01:19:17
			that Mary was fed by angels simply because
		
01:19:17 --> 01:19:19
			secular historians do not consider the supernatural
		
01:19:19 --> 01:19:22
			in their method of doing history. And I
		
01:19:22 --> 01:19:24
			don't expect a modern historian
		
01:19:24 --> 01:19:25
			working within the paradigm
		
01:19:25 --> 01:19:27
			of modern naturalistic historiography
		
01:19:28 --> 01:19:30
			to conclude that Mary was fed by angels.
		
01:19:31 --> 01:19:32
			I believe that because I'm not strictly a
		
01:19:32 --> 01:19:33
			naturalist.
		
01:19:33 --> 01:19:35
			And I trust the source of the Quran.
		
01:19:36 --> 01:19:37
			What I am saying is that it is
		
01:19:37 --> 01:19:38
			plausible historically
		
01:19:39 --> 01:19:41
			that this story originated
		
01:19:41 --> 01:19:43
			with the earliest of believers
		
01:19:43 --> 01:19:45
			in the Jesus Messianic movement
		
01:19:46 --> 01:19:48
			with people who knew Jesus and learned directly
		
01:19:48 --> 01:19:52
			from him. Now an atheist skeptic could say,
		
01:19:52 --> 01:19:53
			okay, fine.
		
01:19:54 --> 01:19:56
			But Jesus was probably lying.
		
01:19:56 --> 01:19:58
			Okay. I mean, I disagree. I mean, but
		
01:19:58 --> 01:20:00
			that's a discussion for another time. That's a
		
01:20:00 --> 01:20:02
			separate debate. Can the historical
		
01:20:02 --> 01:20:04
			Jesus, be trusted?
		
01:20:04 --> 01:20:06
			Now the story of Mary being fed by
		
01:20:06 --> 01:20:07
			angels
		
01:20:07 --> 01:20:09
			is not multiply attested. Right? Like the cleansing
		
01:20:09 --> 01:20:11
			of the temple. And I I can explain
		
01:20:11 --> 01:20:13
			why. First of all, the cleansing of the
		
01:20:13 --> 01:20:14
			temple
		
01:20:14 --> 01:20:16
			was done in public during a very busy
		
01:20:16 --> 01:20:17
			time in Jerusalem.
		
01:20:18 --> 01:20:19
			Right? It would have been hard to not
		
01:20:19 --> 01:20:21
			include this event in the gospel. So something
		
01:20:21 --> 01:20:23
			like that probably happened.
		
01:20:23 --> 01:20:26
			Secondly, it's conceivable that this story of Mary
		
01:20:26 --> 01:20:28
			was related by multiple Christian writers
		
01:20:29 --> 01:20:30
			in the 1st 2nd centuries,
		
01:20:31 --> 01:20:33
			but their writings are simply not extent. There
		
01:20:33 --> 01:20:34
			were dozens of gospels.
		
01:20:35 --> 01:20:37
			Why is it that the only Christian writer
		
01:20:37 --> 01:20:38
			that we know of,
		
01:20:39 --> 01:20:41
			who wrote between the years 50 65 was
		
01:20:41 --> 01:20:44
			Paul Tarsus? Are we really to believe that
		
01:20:44 --> 01:20:46
			Paul was the only Christian writing letters during
		
01:20:46 --> 01:20:48
			this time? James was the leader of the
		
01:20:48 --> 01:20:49
			Jerusalem based Nazarenes
		
01:20:50 --> 01:20:52
			for 30 years, yet we have zero from
		
01:20:52 --> 01:20:55
			him. Where are his letters? Where are the
		
01:20:55 --> 01:20:56
			authentic letters
		
01:20:56 --> 01:20:58
			and writings of Peter and John or any
		
01:20:58 --> 01:20:59
			other apostle?
		
01:21:00 --> 01:21:03
			In my view, the story that, that Mary
		
01:21:03 --> 01:21:06
			was fed by angels was probably related by
		
01:21:06 --> 01:21:08
			Mary herself to Jesus, who told some of
		
01:21:08 --> 01:21:09
			his disciples.
		
01:21:09 --> 01:21:12
			These disciples told others, including some Pauline Christians,
		
01:21:13 --> 01:21:15
			until eventually the story appeared in some form
		
01:21:16 --> 01:21:18
			in the proto gospel of James, which got
		
01:21:18 --> 01:21:20
			some things right and some things wrong, just
		
01:21:20 --> 01:21:22
			like the 4 canonical gospels.
		
01:21:22 --> 01:21:24
			They got some things right and they got
		
01:21:24 --> 01:21:25
			some things wrong.
		
01:21:25 --> 01:21:28
			Not everything that the historical Jesus said appears
		
01:21:28 --> 01:21:30
			in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Every reasonable
		
01:21:30 --> 01:21:32
			person has to agree with
		
01:21:33 --> 01:21:35
			this. Not everything that the historical Jesus said
		
01:21:35 --> 01:21:36
			appears
		
01:21:36 --> 01:21:38
			in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Jesus lived
		
01:21:38 --> 01:21:41
			for over 30 years. If someone claims
		
01:21:42 --> 01:21:45
			that there cannot possibly be any authentic sayings
		
01:21:45 --> 01:21:47
			of Jesus recorded outside of Matthew, Mark, Luke,
		
01:21:47 --> 01:21:49
			and John, then that's just being delusional.
		
01:21:50 --> 01:21:52
			But here's the thing, even with multiple attestation,
		
01:21:54 --> 01:21:55
			we have to be careful when it comes
		
01:21:55 --> 01:21:58
			to the gospels. Because very often Matthew and
		
01:21:58 --> 01:22:01
			Luke simply copy from Mark. Right? So so
		
01:22:01 --> 01:22:03
			they are not necessarily
		
01:22:03 --> 01:22:04
			independent.
		
01:22:04 --> 01:22:07
			Right? Sometimes these criteria of modern historiography
		
01:22:07 --> 01:22:09
			have to be sort of weighed against each
		
01:22:09 --> 01:22:10
			other.
		
01:22:10 --> 01:22:11
			For example,
		
01:22:12 --> 01:22:14
			and I mentioned this in the past, according
		
01:22:14 --> 01:22:16
			to Dale Martin at Yale, who's a Trinitarian
		
01:22:16 --> 01:22:18
			Christian, Mark 10:18
		
01:22:18 --> 01:22:20
			is the most historical verse in the New
		
01:22:20 --> 01:22:23
			Testament. Why are you calling me good? There's
		
01:22:23 --> 01:22:24
			no one good but one that is God.
		
01:22:25 --> 01:22:27
			This exact wording is also found basically in
		
01:22:27 --> 01:22:30
			Matthew 19 17 and Luke 18 18. Now
		
01:22:30 --> 01:22:32
			Matthew and Luke took this from Mark. So
		
01:22:32 --> 01:22:35
			it is not exactly multiply attested.
		
01:22:35 --> 01:22:38
			But Jesus' statement is certainly socially and theologically,
		
01:22:39 --> 01:22:41
			you know, coherent and appropriate.
		
01:22:41 --> 01:22:44
			So Jesus probably said something like this. But
		
01:22:44 --> 01:22:48
			when Jesus quoted the Shema of Deuteronomy 64
		
01:22:48 --> 01:22:49
			and 1229
		
01:22:49 --> 01:22:50
			of Mark,
		
01:22:50 --> 01:22:52
			both Matthew and Luke eliminate
		
01:22:52 --> 01:22:54
			the Shema from Jesus's lips.
		
01:22:54 --> 01:22:56
			Here, O Israel, the Lord, our God, the
		
01:22:56 --> 01:22:59
			Lord is 1. So Jesus quoting the Shema
		
01:22:59 --> 01:23:02
			is definitely not multiply attested. However, it makes
		
01:23:02 --> 01:23:05
			sense why Matthew and Luke would eliminate those
		
01:23:05 --> 01:23:07
			words from Jesus's lips. They were embarrassed
		
01:23:07 --> 01:23:09
			that their divine son of God
		
01:23:10 --> 01:23:12
			had been so explicitly monotheistic.
		
01:23:13 --> 01:23:16
			Therefore, Jesus most likely did quote the Shema,
		
01:23:16 --> 01:23:18
			even though it is only found in one
		
01:23:18 --> 01:23:18
			gospel.
		
01:23:19 --> 01:23:22
			And of course, it makes total contextual sense
		
01:23:22 --> 01:23:23
			that a rabbi
		
01:23:24 --> 01:23:25
			would quote the Shema.
		
01:23:25 --> 01:23:28
			Okay, so a Christian in good faith cannot
		
01:23:28 --> 01:23:28
			say
		
01:23:29 --> 01:23:30
			that the story
		
01:23:30 --> 01:23:33
			of angels feeding Mary is definitely false or
		
01:23:33 --> 01:23:34
			obviously
		
01:23:34 --> 01:23:37
			invented by the author of the proto gospel
		
01:23:37 --> 01:23:40
			of James. Because then, if we're being consistent,
		
01:23:41 --> 01:23:43
			the prodigal son story
		
01:23:43 --> 01:23:45
			that is only found in the travel narrative
		
01:23:45 --> 01:23:45
			of Luke
		
01:23:46 --> 01:23:48
			must also be false. Because Luke just made
		
01:23:48 --> 01:23:49
			it up, right?
		
01:23:50 --> 01:23:52
			So then all of the special Lukan material,
		
01:23:52 --> 01:23:55
			material unique only to Luke is 1.
		
01:23:55 --> 01:23:56
			In
		
01:23:56 --> 01:23:57
			which
		
01:23:57 --> 01:23:59
			is 30 to 50 years after Mark and
		
01:23:59 --> 01:24:01
			15 to 20 years after Matthew and Luke.
		
01:24:01 --> 01:24:02
			John,
		
01:24:02 --> 01:24:04
			we'll call him John. John tells us that
		
01:24:04 --> 01:24:06
			Jesus spoke at length about someone called the
		
01:24:06 --> 01:24:06
			Paraclete.
		
01:24:08 --> 01:24:10
			Since no one before John, not Paul and
		
01:24:10 --> 01:24:12
			none of the synoptic authors even mentioned the
		
01:24:12 --> 01:24:13
			word Paraclete,
		
01:24:14 --> 01:24:16
			are Christians prepared to say that John just
		
01:24:16 --> 01:24:18
			made it up? That is definitely false.
		
01:24:19 --> 01:24:20
			Are they prepared to say that the Christians
		
01:24:20 --> 01:24:23
			who produced Matthew, Mark and Luke did not
		
01:24:23 --> 01:24:24
			even know about the Paraclete?
		
01:24:25 --> 01:24:28
			Now maybe John was given special revelation by
		
01:24:28 --> 01:24:28
			God.
		
01:24:29 --> 01:24:31
			And it was God who directly informed John
		
01:24:31 --> 01:24:33
			about the paraclete. If Christians wanna make this
		
01:24:33 --> 01:24:35
			argument, that's fine. But that is not a
		
01:24:35 --> 01:24:37
			historical argument. It's a theological argument.
		
01:24:38 --> 01:24:40
			It's the same with the Johann and I
		
01:24:40 --> 01:24:40
			am statements.
		
01:24:41 --> 01:24:43
			Now now a Christian might say to me,
		
01:24:43 --> 01:24:46
			okay, okay then. Even though the I am
		
01:24:46 --> 01:24:48
			statements of Jesus
		
01:24:48 --> 01:24:50
			are only found in one gospel, the gospel
		
01:24:50 --> 01:24:51
			of John,
		
01:24:52 --> 01:24:54
			they could still be plausibly historical. Because I
		
01:24:54 --> 01:24:56
			said earlier that just because a statement of
		
01:24:56 --> 01:24:58
			Jesus is found in one gospel, that does
		
01:24:58 --> 01:25:00
			not mean that it is necessarily false
		
01:25:00 --> 01:25:03
			historically. So the Christian argument is, if the
		
01:25:03 --> 01:25:05
			particle sun pericope
		
01:25:05 --> 01:25:08
			is plausibly historical, then so is before Abraham
		
01:25:08 --> 01:25:09
			was, I am.
		
01:25:10 --> 01:25:11
			So I would disagree.
		
01:25:12 --> 01:25:15
			And I think there's a major difference between
		
01:25:15 --> 01:25:16
			these two statements.
		
01:25:16 --> 01:25:19
			Okay? The prodigal son, Pericope, is all about
		
01:25:19 --> 01:25:20
			teshuva.
		
01:25:20 --> 01:25:24
			It's about repentance. It is completely appropriate contextually.
		
01:25:26 --> 01:25:26
			However,
		
01:25:26 --> 01:25:29
			if Christians are taking before Abraham was, I
		
01:25:29 --> 01:25:31
			am to be a divine claim
		
01:25:31 --> 01:25:33
			of a Jewish rabbi,
		
01:25:33 --> 01:25:34
			which most do,
		
01:25:35 --> 01:25:37
			then it is totally inappropriate
		
01:25:37 --> 01:25:40
			and thus highly unlikely to be the words
		
01:25:40 --> 01:25:41
			of the historical Jesus of Nazareth.
		
01:25:43 --> 01:25:43
			Furthermore,
		
01:25:44 --> 01:25:46
			I mean, I can understand how many early
		
01:25:46 --> 01:25:49
			believers in Jesus could have missed or forgotten
		
01:25:50 --> 01:25:53
			1, 2, or 3 of Jesus's parables.
		
01:25:53 --> 01:25:55
			And the Quran actually says this. It says
		
01:25:55 --> 01:25:56
			that the early Christians,
		
01:25:57 --> 01:25:58
			they forgot or disregarded
		
01:25:59 --> 01:26:01
			some of what they were given. So I
		
01:26:01 --> 01:26:04
			can understand how a parables or stories were
		
01:26:04 --> 01:26:04
			missed.
		
01:26:05 --> 01:26:06
			But it is very difficult for me to
		
01:26:06 --> 01:26:09
			wrap my head around how if Jesus made
		
01:26:09 --> 01:26:09
			explicit
		
01:26:10 --> 01:26:11
			divine claims,
		
01:26:11 --> 01:26:14
			they were only recorded by John. How did
		
01:26:14 --> 01:26:15
			almost everybody
		
01:26:16 --> 01:26:17
			miss all of them?
		
01:26:17 --> 01:26:20
			In other words, if I You just do
		
01:26:20 --> 01:26:22
			you make a very, very excellent point. Just
		
01:26:22 --> 01:26:23
			to say that
		
01:26:23 --> 01:26:25
			the point you're making has often been made
		
01:26:25 --> 01:26:28
			by very senior biblical scholars like Jimmy Dunn,
		
01:26:28 --> 01:26:30
			in Durham, England. Bart Erman, of course, mentions
		
01:26:30 --> 01:26:33
			the same. This is a common place. If
		
01:26:33 --> 01:26:35
			he walked around, Jesus walked around saying before
		
01:26:35 --> 01:26:37
			Abraham was I am and all the other
		
01:26:37 --> 01:26:40
			I am statements, I am. Why does no
		
01:26:40 --> 01:26:42
			one ever record this until the very last
		
01:26:42 --> 01:26:44
			cosmiter written towards the end of the first
		
01:26:44 --> 01:26:46
			or beginning of the 2nd century. Why does
		
01:26:46 --> 01:26:48
			Mark admit it? Ignore it. Why does Luke,
		
01:26:49 --> 01:26:51
			who sought to, you know, give everything from
		
01:26:51 --> 01:26:54
			the beginning an account? Why does he fail
		
01:26:54 --> 01:26:57
			to mention this? Ditto math, ditto q, etcetera.
		
01:26:57 --> 01:26:59
			And Paul, ditto Paul. No one mentioned that.
		
01:26:59 --> 01:27:01
			It was extraordinary. A mission, really.
		
01:27:02 --> 01:27:04
			Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So to to use the
		
01:27:04 --> 01:27:06
			time travel analogy again, if I travel back
		
01:27:06 --> 01:27:07
			in time and ask Matthew
		
01:27:08 --> 01:27:10
			if I asked him, why didn't you include
		
01:27:10 --> 01:27:11
			the parable of the good Samaritan?
		
01:27:12 --> 01:27:13
			He might say, well, oh, I missed that.
		
01:27:13 --> 01:27:15
			I forgot about that.
		
01:27:15 --> 01:27:16
			Or he might say,
		
01:27:17 --> 01:27:18
			I never heard that one. Maybe I wasn't
		
01:27:18 --> 01:27:19
			there that day.
		
01:27:20 --> 01:27:21
			But could he really say this about the
		
01:27:21 --> 01:27:24
			I am statements? No. Did he really forget
		
01:27:24 --> 01:27:26
			to mention that Jesus claimed to be God
		
01:27:26 --> 01:27:28
			on multiple occasions?
		
01:27:28 --> 01:27:30
			Did he not hear Jesus ever make one
		
01:27:30 --> 01:27:33
			of these numerous I am statements that John
		
01:27:33 --> 01:27:35
			apparently heard numerous times.
		
01:27:35 --> 01:27:38
			Interestingly, according to doctor James Taber, and he
		
01:27:38 --> 01:27:39
			mentioned this on blogging theology,
		
01:27:39 --> 01:27:42
			the pericope of the Pharisee and the tax
		
01:27:42 --> 01:27:42
			collector,
		
01:27:43 --> 01:27:46
			which is only found in Luke's travel narrative,
		
01:27:46 --> 01:27:48
			the Pharisee and the tax collector, in which
		
01:27:48 --> 01:27:50
			the tax collector was justified, I e forgiven
		
01:27:50 --> 01:27:52
			by God due to his humility of his
		
01:27:52 --> 01:27:56
			repentance. That story is historically more likely
		
01:27:56 --> 01:27:58
			to represent the utterance of a 1st century
		
01:27:58 --> 01:27:59
			Galilean rabbi
		
01:28:00 --> 01:28:02
			than what Paul of Tarsus was teaching in
		
01:28:02 --> 01:28:05
			1st Corinthians and Romans chapter 10, about eating
		
01:28:05 --> 01:28:06
			and drinking the flesh and blood of a
		
01:28:06 --> 01:28:07
			God,
		
01:28:07 --> 01:28:09
			Right? I mean, this is called theophagy. It
		
01:28:09 --> 01:28:11
			was very common in pagan mystery religions.
		
01:28:12 --> 01:28:14
			Luke was writing in 80 to 85, Paul
		
01:28:14 --> 01:28:17
			in the 50. So Paul is writing earlier,
		
01:28:17 --> 01:28:19
			but his claims about Jesus's teachings
		
01:28:19 --> 01:28:21
			make less sense historically.
		
01:28:22 --> 01:28:23
			Yeah. And the Didache,
		
01:28:24 --> 01:28:26
			written around 100 of the common era. So
		
01:28:26 --> 01:28:29
			plausibly before the gospel of John and the
		
01:28:29 --> 01:28:30
			book of Acts, but after Paul, of course,
		
01:28:30 --> 01:28:31
			the Didache
		
01:28:32 --> 01:28:32
			claims
		
01:28:33 --> 01:28:35
			claims to be a record
		
01:28:35 --> 01:28:37
			of the actual teachings of the 12 apostles,
		
01:28:37 --> 01:28:40
			which they inherited from Jesus. So in the
		
01:28:40 --> 01:28:42
			Didache, the the Eucharist is simply
		
01:28:43 --> 01:28:46
			a Thanksgiving meal without any reference
		
01:28:46 --> 01:28:48
			to eating or drinking the flesh and blood
		
01:28:48 --> 01:28:50
			of a God. So the Eucharist celebration and
		
01:28:50 --> 01:28:53
			the Didache is more plausible historically
		
01:28:54 --> 01:28:56
			than what Paul, Mark, Matthew, and John wrote.
		
01:28:57 --> 01:28:59
			In the Quran, Jesus celebrates a feast with
		
01:28:59 --> 01:29:00
			his disciples.
		
01:29:00 --> 01:29:02
			And it is more and it more closely
		
01:29:03 --> 01:29:04
			parallels the Didache
		
01:29:04 --> 01:29:07
			than the canonical gospels. It's quite amazing. So
		
01:29:07 --> 01:29:09
			which is more historical? Which was more likely
		
01:29:09 --> 01:29:12
			historically? That a 1st century rabbi from the
		
01:29:12 --> 01:29:12
			Galilee
		
01:29:13 --> 01:29:17
			taught his Jewish followers to humble themselves before
		
01:29:17 --> 01:29:19
			God and to repent with all sincerity
		
01:29:20 --> 01:29:21
			or that a 1st century rabbi from the
		
01:29:21 --> 01:29:23
			Galilee taught his Jewish
		
01:29:23 --> 01:29:23
			followers
		
01:29:24 --> 01:29:27
			to masticate his flesh and drink his blood
		
01:29:27 --> 01:29:29
			and worship him as a god.
		
01:29:30 --> 01:29:33
			Now, according to the editors of the New
		
01:29:33 --> 01:29:34
			Oxford Annotated Bible,
		
01:29:35 --> 01:29:37
			there are quote literary echoes from the wisdom
		
01:29:37 --> 01:29:38
			of Solomon
		
01:29:39 --> 01:29:41
			present in Paul's epistle to the Romans in
		
01:29:41 --> 01:29:42
			2nd Corinthians.
		
01:29:43 --> 01:29:44
			The wisdom of Solomon is a book found
		
01:29:44 --> 01:29:46
			in the Old Testament Apocrypha.
		
01:29:47 --> 01:29:49
			And this isn't some, you know, fringe opinion
		
01:29:49 --> 01:29:51
			that nobody else agrees with. These editors are
		
01:29:51 --> 01:29:52
			bonafide
		
01:29:53 --> 01:29:55
			academics. You know, these aren't, you know, quacks
		
01:29:55 --> 01:29:57
			like this guy who wrote this critical Quran.
		
01:29:58 --> 01:30:00
			These are mainstream historians of the Bible
		
01:30:00 --> 01:30:02
			whose Bible is read and studied in universities
		
01:30:03 --> 01:30:05
			all around the world. In fact, Paul's engagement
		
01:30:05 --> 01:30:08
			with and allusions to the wisdom of Solomon
		
01:30:08 --> 01:30:09
			is so obvious.
		
01:30:09 --> 01:30:12
			The authors of the moratorium canon in the
		
01:30:12 --> 01:30:12
			2nd century
		
01:30:13 --> 01:30:15
			felt compelled to conclude
		
01:30:15 --> 01:30:17
			that it must be canonical, the wisdom of
		
01:30:17 --> 01:30:18
			Solomon.
		
01:30:18 --> 01:30:20
			Paul alluded to it up and down in
		
01:30:20 --> 01:30:21
			his letters.
		
01:30:21 --> 01:30:24
			But with Paul, things get even more interesting.
		
01:30:24 --> 01:30:26
			According to the New Testament, Paul quoted pagan
		
01:30:26 --> 01:30:26
			poets
		
01:30:27 --> 01:30:30
			to support his Christology. And I mentioned this
		
01:30:30 --> 01:30:33
			in the past as well. According to Acts
		
01:30:33 --> 01:30:34
			chapter 17 verse 28,
		
01:30:35 --> 01:30:37
			when Paul was at the arapagus, right, he
		
01:30:37 --> 01:30:39
			quoted something from the hymn to Zeus by
		
01:30:39 --> 01:30:42
			a stoic philosopher named Eratitis of Soli.
		
01:30:43 --> 01:30:45
			Paul in his letter, 1st Corinthians
		
01:30:45 --> 01:30:46
			1533,
		
01:30:46 --> 01:30:48
			he quoted the poet Menander.
		
01:30:49 --> 01:30:51
			So how do Christians explain this? How do
		
01:30:51 --> 01:30:53
			they defend Paul here? How do they defend
		
01:30:53 --> 01:30:57
			their belief that God inspired Paul to quote
		
01:30:57 --> 01:30:59
			a pagan poet? Well, here's their defense.
		
01:31:01 --> 01:31:02
			Not everything a heretic or
		
01:31:03 --> 01:31:04
			pagan says is wrong.
		
01:31:05 --> 01:31:06
			Okay, in principle, I agree.
		
01:31:07 --> 01:31:09
			A Christian once told me that in a
		
01:31:09 --> 01:31:09
			sermon,
		
01:31:10 --> 01:31:13
			the preacher may quote Plato or Shakespeare or
		
01:31:13 --> 01:31:14
			Nietzsche.
		
01:31:14 --> 01:31:17
			And that doesn't mean that the preacher agrees
		
01:31:17 --> 01:31:18
			with everything Plato
		
01:31:18 --> 01:31:21
			or Shakespeare or Nietzsche ever said.
		
01:31:21 --> 01:31:23
			I agree. So this is the method for
		
01:31:23 --> 01:31:25
			the Paul and his school. Paul and his
		
01:31:25 --> 01:31:27
			school, his followers, that is to say Paul,
		
01:31:27 --> 01:31:30
			and the New Testament writers who followed him,
		
01:31:30 --> 01:31:31
			and the proto orthodox
		
01:31:31 --> 01:31:34
			fathers who followed them, this was their method.
		
01:31:35 --> 01:31:35
			Namely,
		
01:31:36 --> 01:31:38
			they would quote, paraphrase,
		
01:31:38 --> 01:31:39
			and incorporate
		
01:31:40 --> 01:31:41
			diverse texts and traditions
		
01:31:42 --> 01:31:43
			into
		
01:31:43 --> 01:31:44
			their writings
		
01:31:44 --> 01:31:46
			as long as those texts and traditions complemented
		
01:31:46 --> 01:31:47
			their overall message.
		
01:31:48 --> 01:31:50
			And those texts and traditions were both Jewish
		
01:31:50 --> 01:31:51
			and gentile.
		
01:31:52 --> 01:31:54
			Right? This does not imply that everything those
		
01:31:54 --> 01:31:57
			texts and traditions said was considered true and
		
01:31:57 --> 01:31:59
			accurate by Paul and his school. And again,
		
01:31:59 --> 01:32:01
			by school, I mean the gospel writers and
		
01:32:01 --> 01:32:02
			the proto orthodox fathers.
		
01:32:03 --> 01:32:06
			I don't necessarily have a problem with their
		
01:32:06 --> 01:32:07
			method. You know, the prophet Muhammad, peace be
		
01:32:07 --> 01:32:09
			upon him, he said wisdom is the lost
		
01:32:09 --> 01:32:10
			property of the believer.
		
01:32:11 --> 01:32:13
			Wherever he finds it, it is his.
		
01:32:14 --> 01:32:15
			He said
		
01:32:16 --> 01:32:19
			that in in some in some poetry, there
		
01:32:19 --> 01:32:20
			is wisdom.
		
01:32:20 --> 01:32:21
			Right?
		
01:32:22 --> 01:32:25
			Now given that this was the method of
		
01:32:25 --> 01:32:27
			the gospel writers, it follows them that this
		
01:32:27 --> 01:32:29
			was the method of the New Testament Jesus
		
01:32:29 --> 01:32:31
			because the gospel writers wrote the gospels.
		
01:32:32 --> 01:32:33
			So we will look specifically at the words
		
01:32:33 --> 01:32:35
			of the New Testament Jesus shortly, inshallah.
		
01:32:36 --> 01:32:38
			But first, let me say this. Do all
		
01:32:38 --> 01:32:40
			of the statements of Jesus recorded in the
		
01:32:40 --> 01:32:42
			4 gospels plausibly go back to the historical
		
01:32:42 --> 01:32:44
			Jesus of Nazareth
		
01:32:44 --> 01:32:45
			or his immediate disciples?
		
01:32:46 --> 01:32:48
			According to most historians, the answer is no.
		
01:32:49 --> 01:32:51
			For example, the famous Jesus seminar,
		
01:32:51 --> 01:32:53
			in particular, and I don't totally agree with
		
01:32:53 --> 01:32:55
			them, but that's a good example.
		
01:32:56 --> 01:32:58
			The Jesus seminar concluded after a 6 year
		
01:32:58 --> 01:33:01
			study of the gospels, that only 18%,
		
01:33:02 --> 01:33:03
			1 8%
		
01:33:04 --> 01:33:05
			of the words attributed to Jesus in the
		
01:33:05 --> 01:33:08
			New Testament and the 5th gospel, Thomas, are
		
01:33:08 --> 01:33:11
			likely authentic. So 82% are likely inauthentic.
		
01:33:12 --> 01:33:14
			They came to an absolute consensus,
		
01:33:14 --> 01:33:16
			and I agree here totally.
		
01:33:16 --> 01:33:18
			They came to an absolute consensus that the
		
01:33:18 --> 01:33:19
			historical Jesus
		
01:33:20 --> 01:33:22
			never claimed to be a divine being.
		
01:33:22 --> 01:33:25
			He never claimed to be the Davidic Messiah
		
01:33:25 --> 01:33:27
			or King Messiah.
		
01:33:27 --> 01:33:29
			And he never claimed that he was going
		
01:33:29 --> 01:33:31
			to die as a sacrifice for the sins
		
01:33:31 --> 01:33:32
			of the world.
		
01:33:32 --> 01:33:35
			They said that these were claims that others
		
01:33:35 --> 01:33:36
			made for Jesus,
		
01:33:36 --> 01:33:38
			not claims that Jesus made about himself.
		
01:33:38 --> 01:33:39
			Now by contrast,
		
01:33:40 --> 01:33:41
			do all of the Quran, does all of
		
01:33:41 --> 01:33:42
			the Quran
		
01:33:44 --> 01:33:46
			plausibly go back to historical Prophet Muhammad, peace
		
01:33:46 --> 01:33:48
			be upon him? According to the general consensus,
		
01:33:48 --> 01:33:51
			the answer is yes. But for this podcast,
		
01:33:51 --> 01:33:52
			here's the more important question.
		
01:33:53 --> 01:33:55
			Do all of the statements of Jesus recorded
		
01:33:55 --> 01:33:56
			in the Quran?
		
01:33:56 --> 01:33:59
			And all of the events recorded about him
		
01:33:59 --> 01:34:00
			in the Quran
		
01:34:01 --> 01:34:03
			plausibly go back to Jesus of Nazareth
		
01:34:04 --> 01:34:05
			and his disciples?
		
01:34:06 --> 01:34:08
			I would argue tentatively, yes.
		
01:34:08 --> 01:34:10
			Although some sayings and events are more plausible
		
01:34:10 --> 01:34:11
			than others.
		
01:34:12 --> 01:34:13
			But are we as Muslims
		
01:34:14 --> 01:34:16
			beholden to the method of
		
01:34:16 --> 01:34:18
			modern Western historiography?
		
01:34:19 --> 01:34:21
			No, of course not. So our epistemology
		
01:34:21 --> 01:34:23
			is 3 pronged generally
		
01:34:23 --> 01:34:24
			speaking.
		
01:34:24 --> 01:34:26
			So it's based on our senses, reason, and
		
01:34:26 --> 01:34:27
			revelation.
		
01:34:27 --> 01:34:29
			And as much as possible,
		
01:34:29 --> 01:34:31
			we try to, you know, bring these into
		
01:34:31 --> 01:34:31
			harmony
		
01:34:32 --> 01:34:34
			because God gave us our senses. He created
		
01:34:34 --> 01:34:36
			our intellects and he revealed the revelation.
		
01:34:36 --> 01:34:38
			So based upon our worldview,
		
01:34:38 --> 01:34:41
			we maintain that there are things God mentions
		
01:34:41 --> 01:34:41
			in scripture,
		
01:34:42 --> 01:34:43
			either in the Quran
		
01:34:43 --> 01:34:45
			or upon the speech of the prophet,
		
01:34:46 --> 01:34:48
			that are from the unseen. Like, you know,
		
01:34:48 --> 01:34:50
			things about angels and demons, day of judgment,
		
01:34:50 --> 01:34:52
			but also events from the past. So the
		
01:34:52 --> 01:34:53
			past
		
01:34:53 --> 01:34:56
			is also unseen. So the Quran might mention
		
01:34:58 --> 01:35:00
			a past event, something that happened in this
		
01:35:00 --> 01:35:01
			world that
		
01:35:02 --> 01:35:03
			no one prior
		
01:35:03 --> 01:35:05
			to the Quran had mentioned.
		
01:35:05 --> 01:35:07
			The skeptic might say that the prophet just
		
01:35:07 --> 01:35:09
			made it up. Right? But at the same
		
01:35:09 --> 01:35:12
			time, if the Quran confirms a story
		
01:35:12 --> 01:35:15
			or revises a tradition that was known before
		
01:35:15 --> 01:35:18
			the prophet, the skeptic says the prophet was
		
01:35:18 --> 01:35:20
			a plagiarist. Right? It's called the hermeneutic of
		
01:35:20 --> 01:35:21
			suspicion. They're just prejudiced
		
01:35:21 --> 01:35:24
			against the prophet. However, I will say this.
		
01:35:24 --> 01:35:27
			Unlike the New Testament, it is my contention
		
01:35:27 --> 01:35:29
			that the Quran that could be nothing to
		
01:35:29 --> 01:35:31
			Jesus that is historically implausible.
		
01:35:32 --> 01:35:34
			The Quran attributes nothing to Jesus
		
01:35:35 --> 01:35:36
			that is historically
		
01:35:36 --> 01:35:39
			implausible, outside of miracles, of course, which are
		
01:35:39 --> 01:35:40
			meant to be implausible.
		
01:35:41 --> 01:35:42
			Even it's denial of the crucifixion.
		
01:35:43 --> 01:35:45
			Watch our last podcast if people don't believe
		
01:35:45 --> 01:35:46
			me on that.
		
01:35:47 --> 01:35:49
			Okay, so here's what we can gather from
		
01:35:49 --> 01:35:51
			the Quran as to what Jesus, peace be
		
01:35:51 --> 01:35:53
			upon him, said and what he did.
		
01:35:55 --> 01:35:58
			Number 1, Jesus claimed that he was born
		
01:35:58 --> 01:35:59
			miraculously from a virgin.
		
01:36:00 --> 01:36:02
			So this is the question. Is it plausible
		
01:36:02 --> 01:36:04
			that he made this claim?
		
01:36:05 --> 01:36:07
			Now some modern critics, be they Christians or
		
01:36:07 --> 01:36:08
			atheists,
		
01:36:08 --> 01:36:11
			attack the Christology of the Quran by claiming
		
01:36:11 --> 01:36:12
			that the Quran,
		
01:36:13 --> 01:36:15
			is sort of a mishmash
		
01:36:15 --> 01:36:18
			of various Christian opinions about Jesus with no
		
01:36:18 --> 01:36:19
			real consistency.
		
01:36:19 --> 01:36:21
			For example, they'll say that even though the
		
01:36:21 --> 01:36:22
			Quran denies
		
01:36:23 --> 01:36:23
			the divinity
		
01:36:24 --> 01:36:27
			of Jesus, it insists upon the virgin birth,
		
01:36:27 --> 01:36:29
			but the Christians who believed in the virgin
		
01:36:29 --> 01:36:32
			birth did so precisely because they thought Jesus
		
01:36:32 --> 01:36:33
			was divine.
		
01:36:33 --> 01:36:36
			Right? So their claim is the Quran denies
		
01:36:36 --> 01:36:37
			Jesus's divinity
		
01:36:37 --> 01:36:40
			but accepts the virgin birth not realizing
		
01:36:40 --> 01:36:43
			that the latter only indicated his divinity.
		
01:36:44 --> 01:36:46
			This is the claim. In other words, only
		
01:36:46 --> 01:36:48
			Christians who worship Jesus believe that he was
		
01:36:48 --> 01:36:50
			born miraculously. So this claim is false and
		
01:36:50 --> 01:36:51
			I'll show you why.
		
01:36:52 --> 01:36:54
			But first, let me clarify something. This is
		
01:36:54 --> 01:36:55
			very important.
		
01:36:56 --> 01:36:58
			I'm not saying that it is historical according
		
01:36:58 --> 01:36:59
			to the standards of modern
		
01:37:00 --> 01:37:01
			secular historiography
		
01:37:01 --> 01:37:05
			that Jesus' birth was miraculous. Again, modern historians
		
01:37:05 --> 01:37:06
			do not consider miracles
		
01:37:06 --> 01:37:08
			in their method because miracles are the least
		
01:37:08 --> 01:37:09
			probable occurrences
		
01:37:10 --> 01:37:10
			by definition.
		
01:37:11 --> 01:37:12
			Okay?
		
01:37:13 --> 01:37:15
			So modern historians, they don't touch the supernatural.
		
01:37:16 --> 01:37:17
			What I am saying
		
01:37:18 --> 01:37:20
			is that it is plausible historically
		
01:37:20 --> 01:37:23
			that Jesus said that he was born miraculously.
		
01:37:24 --> 01:37:26
			Okay. In other words, this was not something
		
01:37:26 --> 01:37:27
			that was invented later.
		
01:37:28 --> 01:37:30
			It likely has its origin in the very
		
01:37:30 --> 01:37:32
			first generation of believers in Jesus.
		
01:37:33 --> 01:37:35
			Now again, an atheist might say, fine. So
		
01:37:35 --> 01:37:36
			what?
		
01:37:36 --> 01:37:38
			Why would you believe him? Why would you
		
01:37:38 --> 01:37:40
			believe Jesus? That's a different question. I'll get
		
01:37:40 --> 01:37:41
			to that a little bit later, inshallah.
		
01:37:42 --> 01:37:43
			Now I mentioned at the beginning of my
		
01:37:43 --> 01:37:44
			lecture that
		
01:37:45 --> 01:37:47
			that the miraculous birth of Jesus is one
		
01:37:47 --> 01:37:50
			example where critical historians contend
		
01:37:50 --> 01:37:52
			that the Bible and the Quran by extension,
		
01:37:53 --> 01:37:56
			engage in literary mimesis of Hellenistic tradition. In
		
01:37:56 --> 01:37:58
			other words, when it comes specifically
		
01:37:59 --> 01:38:01
			to the birth of Jesus, the early Christians
		
01:38:01 --> 01:38:02
			basically replaced
		
01:38:03 --> 01:38:06
			the names Perseus, Hercules, and Romulus
		
01:38:06 --> 01:38:07
			with
		
01:38:07 --> 01:38:09
			Jesus, and the Quran followed suit.
		
01:38:10 --> 01:38:12
			Okay. So so now there are some modern
		
01:38:12 --> 01:38:14
			Muslims who claim that the Quran does not
		
01:38:14 --> 01:38:17
			actually say that Jesus was born miraculously. This
		
01:38:17 --> 01:38:19
			is what some modern Muslims have resorted to.
		
01:38:20 --> 01:38:22
			I obviously disagree. I think the Quran is
		
01:38:22 --> 01:38:24
			clear on this issue. And I want to
		
01:38:24 --> 01:38:25
			spend a few moments talking about this because
		
01:38:25 --> 01:38:27
			like I said, this is really important.
		
01:38:27 --> 01:38:29
			And and I think Christians will agree with
		
01:38:29 --> 01:38:31
			me here up until a certain point, and
		
01:38:31 --> 01:38:32
			then we're going to have a parting of
		
01:38:32 --> 01:38:34
			the ways. So here's the issue.
		
01:38:35 --> 01:38:37
			Neither Paul nor Mark
		
01:38:37 --> 01:38:39
			mentioned the virgin birth of Jesus.
		
01:38:40 --> 01:38:42
			Matthew and Luke mentioned it, but they came
		
01:38:42 --> 01:38:43
			after Paul and Mark.
		
01:38:44 --> 01:38:46
			So here the skeptic claims that Matthew and
		
01:38:46 --> 01:38:49
			Luke probably just made it up. Alright? Otherwise,
		
01:38:49 --> 01:38:51
			Paul and Mark would have mentioned it. Why
		
01:38:51 --> 01:38:53
			did Matthew and Luke make it up? Because
		
01:38:53 --> 01:38:56
			they wanted to appeal to their Gentile audiences
		
01:38:56 --> 01:38:58
			and miraculous births of Greek heroes
		
01:38:58 --> 01:39:00
			was very common. So this is the argument.
		
01:39:01 --> 01:39:04
			And if we look at Justin Martyr in
		
01:39:04 --> 01:39:04
			his first apology,
		
01:39:05 --> 01:39:07
			it's very telling what he says. So he
		
01:39:07 --> 01:39:08
			says, addressing pagans
		
01:39:09 --> 01:39:10
			I'll just quote this. I didn't write it
		
01:39:10 --> 01:39:11
			on the slide, but I'll just read it
		
01:39:11 --> 01:39:13
			here. And when this is Justin Martyr
		
01:39:13 --> 01:39:16
			addressing pagans. And when we say also that
		
01:39:16 --> 01:39:18
			the word, who was the firstborn of God,
		
01:39:18 --> 01:39:21
			was produced without sexual union, and that he,
		
01:39:21 --> 01:39:24
			Jesus Christ, our teacher, was crucified and died
		
01:39:24 --> 01:39:26
			and rose again and ascended into heaven,
		
01:39:27 --> 01:39:29
			we propound nothing different
		
01:39:30 --> 01:39:31
			than what you believe
		
01:39:32 --> 01:39:33
			regarding those whom you esteem,
		
01:39:34 --> 01:39:35
			sons of Jupiter.
		
01:39:36 --> 01:39:39
			We propound nothing different. Mhmm. And then he
		
01:39:39 --> 01:39:43
			mentions Asclepius and Bacchus and Heracles and Perseus.
		
01:39:44 --> 01:39:47
			So Justin admits that his Jesus, the Jesus
		
01:39:47 --> 01:39:49
			of his Christian faith, the Jesus of early
		
01:39:49 --> 01:39:50
			proto orthodoxy,
		
01:39:50 --> 01:39:51
			this Jesus
		
01:39:51 --> 01:39:54
			mirrors very closely the sons of Jupiter. That
		
01:39:54 --> 01:39:56
			is the sons of Zeus in Greek mythology.
		
01:39:57 --> 01:39:59
			So did Matthew and Luke invent the virgin
		
01:39:59 --> 01:40:01
			birth of Jesus in order to appeal to
		
01:40:01 --> 01:40:02
			the deep audiences?
		
01:40:03 --> 01:40:06
			Well, at first glance, this seems plausible But
		
01:40:06 --> 01:40:08
			when we examine a bit more closely, this
		
01:40:08 --> 01:40:10
			becomes highly unlikely.
		
01:40:11 --> 01:40:12
			So why didn't Paul or Mark mention the
		
01:40:12 --> 01:40:16
			virgin birth? Okay, so the first issue is
		
01:40:17 --> 01:40:19
			we don't have all of Paul's letters. According
		
01:40:19 --> 01:40:22
			to most scholars, Paul wrote a lot more
		
01:40:22 --> 01:40:23
			than 7 genuine letters.
		
01:40:24 --> 01:40:25
			So it's possible that he did mention the
		
01:40:25 --> 01:40:27
			virgin birth and other letters that are not
		
01:40:27 --> 01:40:30
			excellent. Secondly, we don't have any authentic letters
		
01:40:30 --> 01:40:31
			from James, Peter, or John, or any other
		
01:40:31 --> 01:40:32
			Michael
		
01:40:32 --> 01:40:34
			who may have mentioned the virgin birth. I
		
01:40:34 --> 01:40:35
			mean, these are arguments from silence, but they're
		
01:40:35 --> 01:40:36
			still arguments.
		
01:40:37 --> 01:40:39
			Thirdly, many Christian apologists contend
		
01:40:39 --> 01:40:42
			that Paul does at least allude
		
01:40:42 --> 01:40:45
			to the virgin birth in Galatians 44
		
01:40:45 --> 01:40:47
			when he says that Christ was, quote, born
		
01:40:47 --> 01:40:48
			of a woman.
		
01:40:48 --> 01:40:50
			Right? So their argument is, why would he
		
01:40:50 --> 01:40:52
			say that? Aren't we all born of women?
		
01:40:52 --> 01:40:54
			Maybe he means that Christ was only born
		
01:40:54 --> 01:40:56
			of a woman and not of a man.
		
01:40:56 --> 01:40:57
			And maybe,
		
01:40:57 --> 01:41:00
			but then again, he says in woman's womb,
		
01:41:00 --> 01:41:02
			that Christ was, quote, born of a descendant
		
01:41:02 --> 01:41:03
			of David
		
01:41:04 --> 01:41:05
			according to the flesh.
		
01:41:06 --> 01:41:08
			Right? Christian apologists may say, well, maybe here
		
01:41:08 --> 01:41:10
			Paul meant that Mary was a descendant of
		
01:41:10 --> 01:41:12
			David. The other thing is we don't have
		
01:41:12 --> 01:41:13
			access
		
01:41:13 --> 01:41:14
			to a copy of Mark's
		
01:41:15 --> 01:41:15
			complete gospel
		
01:41:16 --> 01:41:18
			until about 370 of the common era. So
		
01:41:18 --> 01:41:20
			that's almost 300 years after Mark wrote the
		
01:41:20 --> 01:41:23
			original. Maybe the original of Mark mentioned the
		
01:41:23 --> 01:41:24
			virgin birth.
		
01:41:25 --> 01:41:26
			There was something called the secret gospel of
		
01:41:26 --> 01:41:28
			Mark, which may have actually been in a
		
01:41:28 --> 01:41:30
			different version of Mark's gospel. Some say it's
		
01:41:30 --> 01:41:31
			a forgery.
		
01:41:31 --> 01:41:33
			Now personally, I don't find these arguments very,
		
01:41:34 --> 01:41:36
			convincing. So it seems to me,
		
01:41:36 --> 01:41:39
			that, yeah, Paul and Mark probably did not
		
01:41:39 --> 01:41:40
			know of the virgin birth.
		
01:41:42 --> 01:41:43
			New
		
01:41:44 --> 01:41:45
			Testament textual critics
		
01:41:45 --> 01:41:46
			point out that
		
01:41:47 --> 01:41:48
			Mark tells us
		
01:41:48 --> 01:41:52
			that Jesus's family, his own family, presumably including
		
01:41:52 --> 01:41:52
			Mary,
		
01:41:53 --> 01:41:55
			thought Jesus was mentally beside himself at one
		
01:41:55 --> 01:41:58
			point. So Mark 3 21. Now, certainly Mary
		
01:41:58 --> 01:41:59
			would have remembered
		
01:41:59 --> 01:42:01
			that Jesus was born from her miraculously.
		
01:42:02 --> 01:42:04
			For Mark, Jesus became became the son of
		
01:42:04 --> 01:42:07
			God at his baptism. That's adoption as Christology.
		
01:42:07 --> 01:42:09
			In Paul, Jesus became the son of God
		
01:42:09 --> 01:42:12
			at his resurrection, although Paul believed that Christ
		
01:42:12 --> 01:42:15
			preexisted his body in some sense as some
		
01:42:15 --> 01:42:18
			sort of lesser divine being or angel perhaps.
		
01:42:18 --> 01:42:20
			But both Paul and Mark seem to have
		
01:42:20 --> 01:42:21
			accepted
		
01:42:21 --> 01:42:23
			that Jesus had a human father
		
01:42:24 --> 01:42:26
			who was a descendant of David. This was
		
01:42:26 --> 01:42:29
			the prevalent Jewish expectation at that time that
		
01:42:29 --> 01:42:31
			God would send a Davidic King Messiah. So
		
01:42:31 --> 01:42:33
			for Paul and Mark, it is very important
		
01:42:33 --> 01:42:35
			that Jesus is the Davidic King Messiah.
		
01:42:35 --> 01:42:37
			Now just to push back a little bit
		
01:42:37 --> 01:42:38
			against the critics,
		
01:42:38 --> 01:42:39
			in Mark 3:21,
		
01:42:40 --> 01:42:43
			Mark does not actually say explicitly
		
01:42:43 --> 01:42:46
			that Jesus' family thought he was beside himself.
		
01:42:46 --> 01:42:47
			Okay. That's one interpretation.
		
01:42:48 --> 01:42:48
			Yes.
		
01:42:49 --> 01:42:52
			The verse says, and having heard this, the
		
01:42:52 --> 01:42:54
			ones near to him came, probably his family,
		
01:42:55 --> 01:42:58
			to seize him for they were saying he
		
01:42:58 --> 01:42:59
			is beside himself.
		
01:43:00 --> 01:43:01
			Okay. So who is saying he is beside
		
01:43:01 --> 01:43:03
			himself? The ones near to him
		
01:43:04 --> 01:43:05
			or the akhlas,
		
01:43:06 --> 01:43:09
			the crowd mentioned in the previous verse? So
		
01:43:09 --> 01:43:11
			not his family. In other words, his family
		
01:43:11 --> 01:43:13
			came to rescue him from the crowd
		
01:43:13 --> 01:43:16
			because they were saying that he's crazy. So
		
01:43:16 --> 01:43:17
			it's a bit ambiguous.
		
01:43:18 --> 01:43:21
			Okay? But let's assume that, Paul and Mark
		
01:43:21 --> 01:43:22
			did not know the virgin birth.
		
01:43:24 --> 01:43:26
			If that is true, does that mean that
		
01:43:26 --> 01:43:27
			nobody knew of it?
		
01:43:29 --> 01:43:31
			In my opinion, it's highly unlikely that Matthew
		
01:43:31 --> 01:43:33
			and Luke invented the virgin birth, and I'll
		
01:43:33 --> 01:43:34
			tell you why.
		
01:43:35 --> 01:43:37
			First of all, was the virgin birth mentioned
		
01:43:37 --> 01:43:39
			in q? So like remember, according to many
		
01:43:39 --> 01:43:42
			scholars, Kyw likely predated not only Mark but
		
01:43:42 --> 01:43:43
			also the Pauline epistles.
		
01:43:44 --> 01:43:46
			It was not contaminated with Pauline Christology.
		
01:43:47 --> 01:43:49
			Usually when Mark sorry sorry, usually when Matthew
		
01:43:49 --> 01:43:52
			and Luke have material in common that is
		
01:43:52 --> 01:43:54
			missing from Mark, scholars conclude that it likely
		
01:43:54 --> 01:43:55
			came from Hugh.
		
01:43:56 --> 01:43:58
			Now Matthew and Luke both tell us that
		
01:43:58 --> 01:43:59
			Jesus was born miraculously.
		
01:44:00 --> 01:44:02
			So doesn't that mean that it was mentioned
		
01:44:02 --> 01:44:04
			in q? Well, the answer
		
01:44:04 --> 01:44:07
			is most likely no, however. There are simply
		
01:44:07 --> 01:44:10
			not enough word for word agreements between Matthew
		
01:44:10 --> 01:44:12
			and Luke to suggest that they had a
		
01:44:12 --> 01:44:14
			common written source
		
01:44:14 --> 01:44:16
			when it came to the birth of Jesus.
		
01:44:16 --> 01:44:19
			However, Matthew and Luke knew the broad strokes.
		
01:44:19 --> 01:44:22
			Jesus was born in Bethlehem to Mary when
		
01:44:22 --> 01:44:24
			she was a virgin. This is what they
		
01:44:24 --> 01:44:24
			know.
		
01:44:25 --> 01:44:27
			Where they differ is on almost all of
		
01:44:27 --> 01:44:28
			the details
		
01:44:28 --> 01:44:29
			in their birth narratives.
		
01:44:30 --> 01:44:32
			Okay? But here's the key. Matthew and Luke
		
01:44:32 --> 01:44:33
			wrote independently
		
01:44:33 --> 01:44:34
			of each other.
		
01:44:35 --> 01:44:37
			Okay? So what are the chances that they
		
01:44:37 --> 01:44:39
			suddenly decided independently
		
01:44:39 --> 01:44:41
			that Jesus was born from a virgin?
		
01:44:41 --> 01:44:43
			I would say not very high. In other
		
01:44:43 --> 01:44:46
			words, Matthew and Luke must have inherited this
		
01:44:46 --> 01:44:50
			belief about Jesus from those before them. They
		
01:44:50 --> 01:44:52
			received the virgin birth as factual,
		
01:44:53 --> 01:44:55
			but then constructed their own unique narratives
		
01:44:56 --> 01:44:57
			around this event.
		
01:44:57 --> 01:44:59
			Okay. This is similar to how they dealt
		
01:44:59 --> 01:45:02
			with the Nazareth Bethlehem problem.
		
01:45:02 --> 01:45:05
			Right? Both Matthew and Luke knew from received
		
01:45:05 --> 01:45:06
			tradition
		
01:45:06 --> 01:45:09
			that Jesus was raised in Nazareth. He was
		
01:45:09 --> 01:45:11
			called Jesus of Nazareth, Yeshua Nutri,
		
01:45:12 --> 01:45:14
			but was somehow born in Bethlehem,
		
01:45:15 --> 01:45:15
			Bethlehem.
		
01:45:16 --> 01:45:19
			So each evangelist constructed his own unique narrative
		
01:45:19 --> 01:45:21
			and plot devices
		
01:45:21 --> 01:45:23
			in order to get Jesus born in Bethlehem,
		
01:45:24 --> 01:45:27
			but raised in Nazareth. So the virgin birth
		
01:45:27 --> 01:45:29
			was not in queue, but it was no
		
01:45:29 --> 01:45:31
			doubt a received tradition
		
01:45:31 --> 01:45:34
			that Matthew and Luke incorporated into their gospels,
		
01:45:34 --> 01:45:36
			in their own unique ways.
		
01:45:37 --> 01:45:40
			Here's another thing. Why would Pauline Christians invent
		
01:45:40 --> 01:45:41
			the virgin birth
		
01:45:41 --> 01:45:44
			if their claim was that Jesus was the
		
01:45:44 --> 01:45:45
			Davidic King Messiah.
		
01:45:46 --> 01:45:49
			The virgin birth completely destroys this claim. Tribal
		
01:45:49 --> 01:45:51
			identity is taken from the father. If Jesus
		
01:45:51 --> 01:45:53
			had no father, then he's not from David.
		
01:45:53 --> 01:45:54
			It's as simple as that.
		
01:45:55 --> 01:45:58
			Perhaps Paul and Mark knew of the idea
		
01:45:58 --> 01:46:01
			of Jesus' virgin birth that was sort of
		
01:46:01 --> 01:46:02
			in the ether,
		
01:46:02 --> 01:46:04
			but chose not to mention it because it
		
01:46:04 --> 01:46:07
			clearly flies into the face of their belief
		
01:46:07 --> 01:46:09
			that Jesus was the Davidic King Messiah.
		
01:46:09 --> 01:46:12
			Paul and Mark perhaps could not reconcile this.
		
01:46:12 --> 01:46:14
			Now Matthew and Luke, however,
		
01:46:14 --> 01:46:17
			just could not ignore it. Why? Because the
		
01:46:17 --> 01:46:20
			virgin birth was so popular to ignore, was
		
01:46:20 --> 01:46:22
			too popular to ignore by the time they
		
01:46:22 --> 01:46:23
			wrote their gospels.
		
01:46:24 --> 01:46:26
			So both of them felt compelled
		
01:46:26 --> 01:46:29
			to offer some sort of explanation. So as
		
01:46:29 --> 01:46:31
			we know, both evangelists gave us
		
01:46:31 --> 01:46:33
			gave Jesus a genealogy.
		
01:46:35 --> 01:46:38
			Right? Which shows that Jesus' adopted father, Joseph,
		
01:46:38 --> 01:46:40
			was a descendant of David. Of course, their
		
01:46:40 --> 01:46:41
			genealogies of Jesus are extremely
		
01:46:42 --> 01:46:42
			contradictory.
		
01:46:43 --> 01:46:44
			So the sort of
		
01:46:45 --> 01:46:47
			ad hoc solution of Matthew and Luke was
		
01:46:47 --> 01:46:49
			that Jesus' adopted father Joseph
		
01:46:49 --> 01:46:51
			was a descendant of David. And so Jesus
		
01:46:51 --> 01:46:52
			somehow magically
		
01:46:53 --> 01:46:56
			inherited his adopted father's lineage. So I don't
		
01:46:56 --> 01:46:57
			think it's a good solution.
		
01:46:58 --> 01:46:59
			Now remember what James Taber said.
		
01:47:00 --> 01:47:02
			He said, if we want to understand who
		
01:47:02 --> 01:47:04
			Jesus was, we need to understand who James
		
01:47:04 --> 01:47:06
			was. Yep. He's the inspiration.
		
01:47:06 --> 01:47:08
			So here's a good question. Did the Ebionites
		
01:47:09 --> 01:47:11
			believe in the virgin birth? Remember, the Ebionites
		
01:47:11 --> 01:47:14
			were the spiritual successors of James the just.
		
01:47:14 --> 01:47:15
			The Jamesonian
		
01:47:15 --> 01:47:17
			Nazarenes who vehemently opposed
		
01:47:18 --> 01:47:18
			Paul.
		
01:47:19 --> 01:47:22
			Okay? The Ebionites were Torah observant Jewish Christians
		
01:47:22 --> 01:47:22
			who denied
		
01:47:23 --> 01:47:24
			that Jesus was God
		
01:47:24 --> 01:47:26
			and considered Paul to be an apostate and
		
01:47:26 --> 01:47:28
			a charlatan. According to Irenaeus,
		
01:47:29 --> 01:47:32
			the Ebionites denied the virgin birth. But according
		
01:47:32 --> 01:47:34
			to Origen and Eusebius, they accepted the virgin
		
01:47:34 --> 01:47:36
			birth. So it seems like there was a
		
01:47:36 --> 01:47:37
			difference of opinion among them.
		
01:47:38 --> 01:47:39
			But here's the thing, if if the virgin
		
01:47:39 --> 01:47:43
			birth was invented by later Pauline Christians like
		
01:47:43 --> 01:47:46
			Matthew and Luke or even Pauline Christians who
		
01:47:46 --> 01:47:48
			lived sort of in the interim between Mark
		
01:47:48 --> 01:47:50
			and Matthew, so between 1785,
		
01:47:51 --> 01:47:52
			it seems highly unlikely
		
01:47:53 --> 01:47:55
			that many Ebionites would have taken that belief
		
01:47:55 --> 01:47:58
			from them. The Ebionites hated Paul and his
		
01:47:58 --> 01:47:58
			adherence.
		
01:47:59 --> 01:48:01
			It makes more sense that the Ebionites took
		
01:48:01 --> 01:48:03
			their belief in the virgin birth from James
		
01:48:03 --> 01:48:06
			and his adherence, the ones who opposed Paul.
		
01:48:07 --> 01:48:09
			Now a skeptic might say, fine, the virgin
		
01:48:09 --> 01:48:11
			birth was a belief of the first Christians,
		
01:48:11 --> 01:48:14
			the Jamesonian Nazarenes. But they still took the
		
01:48:14 --> 01:48:15
			idea from the pagans.
		
01:48:15 --> 01:48:18
			Okay. It was mimetic of Greek mythology.
		
01:48:18 --> 01:48:20
			So let's go back to what Justin said.
		
01:48:21 --> 01:48:24
			Justin Martyr. So it is true that many
		
01:48:24 --> 01:48:27
			pre Christian pagan gods were 4 things.
		
01:48:27 --> 01:48:29
			Okay. There were 4 things. And, again, I
		
01:48:29 --> 01:48:31
			didn't put this on the slide, but people
		
01:48:31 --> 01:48:32
			can maybe, note this,
		
01:48:33 --> 01:48:35
			that these pre Christian pagan gods were number
		
01:48:35 --> 01:48:36
			1, born miraculously.
		
01:48:38 --> 01:48:39
			Number 2, they died for the sins of
		
01:48:39 --> 01:48:40
			their people.
		
01:48:40 --> 01:48:42
			Number 3, they were somehow resurrected.
		
01:48:43 --> 01:48:45
			And number 4, they ascended into heaven.
		
01:48:46 --> 01:48:49
			I would contend that only numbers 23,
		
01:48:49 --> 01:48:51
			that is to say, died for the sins
		
01:48:51 --> 01:48:53
			of the people and were somehow resurrected,
		
01:48:53 --> 01:48:55
			these 2 are strictly pagan.
		
01:48:56 --> 01:48:58
			The idea of a dying and rising savior
		
01:48:58 --> 01:48:59
			man god
		
01:48:59 --> 01:49:01
			is pagan. Yes. That is to say not
		
01:49:01 --> 01:49:02
			Jewish.
		
01:49:03 --> 01:49:04
			Paul borrowed this motif
		
01:49:05 --> 01:49:08
			because he was highly Hellenized, ethnically Jewish, but
		
01:49:08 --> 01:49:11
			highly Hellenized 1st century amateur philosopher from Tarsus.
		
01:49:12 --> 01:49:15
			So here's my challenge. Name me one Jew
		
01:49:15 --> 01:49:16
			in all of Jewish tradition
		
01:49:17 --> 01:49:19
			that predates the Hellenistic period
		
01:49:19 --> 01:49:21
			that died for the sins of others and
		
01:49:21 --> 01:49:22
			was resurrected.
		
01:49:23 --> 01:49:24
			You know, just one.
		
01:49:26 --> 01:49:28
			Now looking at number 1 and number number
		
01:49:28 --> 01:49:29
			14,
		
01:49:29 --> 01:49:30
			born miraculously
		
01:49:31 --> 01:49:32
			and ascended into heaven.
		
01:49:33 --> 01:49:36
			Okay? So, yes, the Greeks believe that many
		
01:49:36 --> 01:49:37
			of their heroes
		
01:49:37 --> 01:49:40
			were born miraculously and ascended into heaven.
		
01:49:41 --> 01:49:43
			But this was also a prevalent pre Hellenistic
		
01:49:44 --> 01:49:45
			Jewish belief.
		
01:49:46 --> 01:49:49
			Okay? These were ancient Israelite motifs.
		
01:49:49 --> 01:49:52
			Miraculous births and ascensions are found in the
		
01:49:52 --> 01:49:52
			Tanakh,
		
01:49:52 --> 01:49:55
			like Isaac and Elijah or Enoch.
		
01:49:56 --> 01:49:58
			Okay? So to conclude this section, it is
		
01:49:58 --> 01:50:01
			plausible, it is plausible that the belief in
		
01:50:01 --> 01:50:02
			the miraculous birth of Jesus goes back to
		
01:50:02 --> 01:50:05
			the first, quote, Christian, is led by James,
		
01:50:05 --> 01:50:08
			the brother of Jesus. Matthew and Luke had
		
01:50:08 --> 01:50:10
			access to q. Q was very Jewish in
		
01:50:10 --> 01:50:12
			his teachings. Matthew and Luke also had access
		
01:50:12 --> 01:50:14
			to the tradition of Jesus' virgin birth.
		
01:50:15 --> 01:50:17
			And although the virgin birth was not mentioned
		
01:50:17 --> 01:50:19
			in q, it was still likely representative of
		
01:50:19 --> 01:50:22
			the teachings of the first Christians like James.
		
01:50:23 --> 01:50:25
			And where did James get this from? I
		
01:50:25 --> 01:50:27
			think likely from Jesus. It was not mimetic
		
01:50:27 --> 01:50:28
			of Greek mythology,
		
01:50:29 --> 01:50:30
			but rather a continuation
		
01:50:30 --> 01:50:31
			of the established
		
01:50:32 --> 01:50:34
			Jewish miracle birth tradition.
		
01:50:35 --> 01:50:38
			Okay? Now according to modern secular historians,
		
01:50:39 --> 01:50:42
			there are, really two main explanations
		
01:50:42 --> 01:50:43
			for why the early Christians
		
01:50:44 --> 01:50:46
			claimed that the virgin that the birth of
		
01:50:46 --> 01:50:48
			Jesus was a miracle. The virgin birth of
		
01:50:48 --> 01:50:49
			Jesus was a miracle.
		
01:50:51 --> 01:50:53
			Because obviously for them, the virgin birth is
		
01:50:53 --> 01:50:55
			not history. Right? They don't acknowledge miracles. For
		
01:50:55 --> 01:50:57
			them, it is historical that the claim was
		
01:50:57 --> 01:51:00
			made. But who first made the claim? So
		
01:51:00 --> 01:51:02
			one is obviously the mimesis argument. Right? The
		
01:51:02 --> 01:51:04
			early Hellenistic Christians
		
01:51:05 --> 01:51:07
			first claimed it in order to model Jesus
		
01:51:07 --> 01:51:08
			after the sons of Zeus.
		
01:51:08 --> 01:51:11
			So the claim was made after the time
		
01:51:11 --> 01:51:14
			of Jesus to deify Jesus. But other historians
		
01:51:14 --> 01:51:16
			and and Ehrman mentions this.
		
01:51:16 --> 01:51:18
			Other historians say that there is evidence
		
01:51:19 --> 01:51:21
			that the virgin birth claim goes back to
		
01:51:21 --> 01:51:22
			the time of Mary herself,
		
01:51:23 --> 01:51:24
			That it was known
		
01:51:25 --> 01:51:27
			that she became pregnant while unmarried.
		
01:51:27 --> 01:51:30
			This was simply known about her during her
		
01:51:30 --> 01:51:30
			whole life.
		
01:51:31 --> 01:51:33
			In fact, Mark tells us that Jews in
		
01:51:33 --> 01:51:34
			Galilee
		
01:51:34 --> 01:51:37
			refer to Jesus as the son of Mary,
		
01:51:37 --> 01:51:39
			not the son of Joseph. He's the only
		
01:51:39 --> 01:51:42
			gospel writer to do so. Possibly revealing
		
01:51:43 --> 01:51:44
			that Jesus' father's
		
01:51:44 --> 01:51:46
			identity was in dispute
		
01:51:46 --> 01:51:48
			during Jesus' own lifetime.
		
01:51:48 --> 01:51:50
			So then, you know, maybe Mary or her
		
01:51:50 --> 01:51:53
			family or someone had to invent a story
		
01:51:53 --> 01:51:56
			about a miraculous birth according to historians, whatever
		
01:51:56 --> 01:51:57
			historians say.
		
01:51:57 --> 01:51:59
			Now the Quran defends Mary and calls her
		
01:51:59 --> 01:52:01
			sadiqa, which means truthful.
		
01:52:01 --> 01:52:04
			Right? The important thing for us is that
		
01:52:04 --> 01:52:04
			many
		
01:52:05 --> 01:52:08
			secular historians admit that the virgin birth explanation
		
01:52:08 --> 01:52:11
			plausibly goes back to Mary herself.
		
01:52:11 --> 01:52:13
			So here's something interesting. I mean, this is,
		
01:52:13 --> 01:52:14
			you know, circumstantial,
		
01:52:15 --> 01:52:18
			but something for historians and skeptics who take
		
01:52:18 --> 01:52:19
			this position to think about.
		
01:52:20 --> 01:52:21
			And this is related to the question I
		
01:52:21 --> 01:52:22
			mentioned earlier,
		
01:52:23 --> 01:52:25
			that is raised by skeptics. Why would you
		
01:52:25 --> 01:52:27
			even believe Jesus if he claimed his birth
		
01:52:27 --> 01:52:28
			was miraculous?
		
01:52:28 --> 01:52:31
			So Jesus of Nazareth, peace be upon him,
		
01:52:31 --> 01:52:31
			is easily
		
01:52:32 --> 01:52:32
			top
		
01:52:33 --> 01:52:35
			3 of the most influential human beings to
		
01:52:35 --> 01:52:36
			ever walk the planet,
		
01:52:36 --> 01:52:38
			right? Is it just a big coincidence
		
01:52:39 --> 01:52:40
			that Jesus' mother was claiming
		
01:52:41 --> 01:52:42
			a miraculous birth?
		
01:52:43 --> 01:52:44
			And that her son would become
		
01:52:45 --> 01:52:47
			someone very special? And then her son just
		
01:52:47 --> 01:52:48
			happens to become
		
01:52:49 --> 01:52:51
			this absolute giant of human history. I mean,
		
01:52:51 --> 01:52:54
			top three most influential human beings. A 30
		
01:52:54 --> 01:52:56
			year old rabbi from Nazareth who lived 2
		
01:52:56 --> 01:52:58
			1000 years ago. And just something to think
		
01:52:58 --> 01:53:01
			about. And then there was an unlettered Arab
		
01:53:01 --> 01:53:04
			man in the Hejaz in the 7th century,
		
01:53:04 --> 01:53:07
			who said that his religion, Islam,
		
01:53:07 --> 01:53:09
			would eventually become the dominant religion in the
		
01:53:09 --> 01:53:11
			world at a time when there were a
		
01:53:11 --> 01:53:11
			handful of Muslims.
		
01:53:12 --> 01:53:14
			So that man, the prophet Muhammad, sallallahu alaihi
		
01:53:14 --> 01:53:17
			wasallam, the number one most influential human being
		
01:53:17 --> 01:53:17
			in history,
		
01:53:18 --> 01:53:20
			also said that Jesus was born miraculously.
		
01:53:20 --> 01:53:22
			Right? So just something to think about. I
		
01:53:22 --> 01:53:25
			mean, just I I tried to give an
		
01:53:25 --> 01:53:28
			analogy here, something people can sort of compare.
		
01:53:28 --> 01:53:31
			It's it's not very, adequate. But imagine a
		
01:53:31 --> 01:53:32
			video surfaced,
		
01:53:33 --> 01:53:33
			from 1960,
		
01:53:35 --> 01:53:37
			in which Michael Jordan's mother,
		
01:53:38 --> 01:53:40
			said that she had a dream. Okay? And
		
01:53:40 --> 01:53:43
			in this dream, a voice told her that
		
01:53:43 --> 01:53:44
			she was going to give birth to the
		
01:53:44 --> 01:53:46
			greatest basketball player ever
		
01:53:47 --> 01:53:47
			in 1960,
		
01:53:48 --> 01:53:50
			before Michael Jordan was even born.
		
01:53:50 --> 01:53:52
			Okay? That would be something to think about.
		
01:53:52 --> 01:53:54
			Right? I don't think we can just ignore
		
01:53:54 --> 01:53:55
			that.
		
01:53:55 --> 01:53:58
			Right? In my view, Jesus was born the
		
01:53:58 --> 01:53:59
			way he was
		
01:53:59 --> 01:54:01
			in order to be a sign to the
		
01:54:01 --> 01:54:02
			Israelites
		
01:54:02 --> 01:54:04
			that he was something special. And the most
		
01:54:04 --> 01:54:06
			special thing a man could be in Judaism
		
01:54:06 --> 01:54:06
			was a prophet.
		
01:54:07 --> 01:54:10
			Right? So Islam also solves this messiah virgin
		
01:54:10 --> 01:54:11
			birth dilemma.
		
01:54:12 --> 01:54:14
			Jesus was the messiah, but he wasn't the
		
01:54:14 --> 01:54:16
			king messiah, at least not a Davidic king
		
01:54:16 --> 01:54:18
			messiah. He was a prophet messiah.
		
01:54:18 --> 01:54:20
			He was a spiritual master, not a political
		
01:54:20 --> 01:54:23
			leader. So I agree with the Jesus seminar
		
01:54:23 --> 01:54:25
			here that the historical Jesus never claimed to
		
01:54:25 --> 01:54:27
			be the Davidic messiah. Now one last thing
		
01:54:27 --> 01:54:28
			I'll mention about this,
		
01:54:29 --> 01:54:30
			and then we'll move on here.
		
01:54:30 --> 01:54:32
			So I said, as I said, Matthew and
		
01:54:32 --> 01:54:34
			Luke did not invent the virgin birth. The
		
01:54:34 --> 01:54:37
			virgin birth tradition of Jesus predates
		
01:54:37 --> 01:54:38
			their gospels.
		
01:54:38 --> 01:54:42
			Okay. Luke, however, in his unique telling of
		
01:54:42 --> 01:54:42
			the story
		
01:54:43 --> 01:54:45
			does give it a Greek spin.
		
01:54:46 --> 01:54:49
			Okay? So did Luke invent the virgin birth?
		
01:54:49 --> 01:54:52
			No. But he did give it a Greek
		
01:54:52 --> 01:54:52
			flavoring,
		
01:54:53 --> 01:54:55
			okay, in his telling of the story.
		
01:54:56 --> 01:54:59
			Right? So this idea, the Holy Spirit shall
		
01:54:59 --> 01:55:01
			come upon thee and the power of the
		
01:55:01 --> 01:55:03
			Most High shall overshadow thee. And for this
		
01:55:03 --> 01:55:04
			reason,
		
01:55:05 --> 01:55:07
			right, the thing born shall be called the
		
01:55:07 --> 01:55:09
			Son of God. So the Luke and Jesus
		
01:55:09 --> 01:55:10
			is this demigod.
		
01:55:10 --> 01:55:12
			This this half man, half god like Perseus,
		
01:55:13 --> 01:55:14
			Hercules or Dionysus.
		
01:55:15 --> 01:55:17
			Okay, so there is an element of Hellenistic
		
01:55:18 --> 01:55:18
			mimesis
		
01:55:19 --> 01:55:21
			in Luke's telling of the story.
		
01:55:21 --> 01:55:24
			What did Matthew do? Matthew also gave it
		
01:55:24 --> 01:55:25
			a Greek spin,
		
01:55:25 --> 01:55:27
			but he couched his Greek interpretation
		
01:55:28 --> 01:55:29
			in Jewish language.
		
01:55:29 --> 01:55:32
			Okay. So Matthew knew that miraculous births were
		
01:55:32 --> 01:55:34
			indicative within Jewish tradition
		
01:55:34 --> 01:55:36
			of the emergence of great figures. But for
		
01:55:36 --> 01:55:38
			Matthew, finding a specific Tanafi
		
01:55:39 --> 01:55:40
			proof text was very important.
		
01:55:41 --> 01:55:43
			Okay? But Matthew chose a text that probably
		
01:55:43 --> 01:55:46
			has that probably has nothing to do with
		
01:55:46 --> 01:55:48
			Jesus. So in Isaiah 7,
		
01:55:48 --> 01:55:51
			right, Isaiah tells Ahaz, he says,
		
01:55:55 --> 01:55:56
			the young woman
		
01:55:57 --> 01:55:58
			will conceive a son,
		
01:55:59 --> 01:56:00
			the Korath Shmuel,
		
01:56:01 --> 01:56:03
			and she shall call his name Emmanuel.
		
01:56:03 --> 01:56:06
			Now Matthew was looking at the Greek of
		
01:56:06 --> 01:56:08
			this verse. And the Greek word for the
		
01:56:08 --> 01:56:09
			woman, is
		
01:56:11 --> 01:56:12
			And I know some critics of the New
		
01:56:12 --> 01:56:14
			Testament make a big big deal out of
		
01:56:14 --> 01:56:16
			this. They say that Alma means young woman
		
01:56:16 --> 01:56:19
			and Parthenos means virgin. But in fact, Alma
		
01:56:19 --> 01:56:21
			could also mean virgin. You can call a
		
01:56:21 --> 01:56:23
			virgin an Alma. There's no problem with that.
		
01:56:24 --> 01:56:25
			Matthew's
		
01:56:25 --> 01:56:28
			real error is in his interpretation of Immanuel.
		
01:56:29 --> 01:56:30
			Okay? First of all,
		
01:56:30 --> 01:56:33
			Jesus' name was not Immanuel. It was Jesus.
		
01:56:33 --> 01:56:36
			Secondly, by pointing out that Emmanuel means God
		
01:56:36 --> 01:56:38
			with us, Matt, Matthew wants to say that
		
01:56:38 --> 01:56:40
			Jesus was a divine being,
		
01:56:40 --> 01:56:43
			a god, son of the god. So this
		
01:56:43 --> 01:56:46
			is his Greek spin, his Greco Roman spin.
		
01:56:46 --> 01:56:49
			By doing so, Matthew breaks a fundamental law
		
01:56:49 --> 01:56:50
			of Jewish exegesis.
		
01:56:50 --> 01:56:53
			His Midrash, right, violates the pishat. In other
		
01:56:53 --> 01:56:55
			words, his subtle interpretation
		
01:56:55 --> 01:56:57
			violates the plain sense
		
01:56:58 --> 01:57:00
			of the Tanakh's overall theology.
		
01:57:00 --> 01:57:01
			And I mentioned this in the past that
		
01:57:01 --> 01:57:04
			the Christian exegetes were notorious for doing this,
		
01:57:05 --> 01:57:06
			with Isaiah chapter 53.
		
01:57:07 --> 01:57:09
			So in in my view, this verse, Isaiah
		
01:57:09 --> 01:57:10
			714, that has nothing to do with Jesus
		
01:57:10 --> 01:57:13
			or Mary. Matthew just wanted to find something.
		
01:57:13 --> 01:57:17
			This text, Isaiah 714, did not produce the
		
01:57:17 --> 01:57:18
			virgin birth of Jesus. I wanna make this
		
01:57:18 --> 01:57:21
			clear. Matthew did not read this in Isaiah
		
01:57:22 --> 01:57:23
			and decide that Jesus was born from a
		
01:57:23 --> 01:57:24
			virgin.
		
01:57:24 --> 01:57:27
			How do we know? Luke was also familiar
		
01:57:27 --> 01:57:28
			with the virgin birth and he did not
		
01:57:28 --> 01:57:30
			quote this verse and Luke did not know
		
01:57:30 --> 01:57:31
			Matthew.
		
01:57:32 --> 01:57:34
			So no, Matthew already knew of the virgin
		
01:57:34 --> 01:57:35
			birth.
		
01:57:36 --> 01:57:37
			But he went back into the Tanakh
		
01:57:38 --> 01:57:41
			to find a specific prophecy of it. This
		
01:57:41 --> 01:57:44
			is also how Matthew constructed his crucifixion narrative.
		
01:57:44 --> 01:57:46
			Matthew believed that Jesus was crucified. He was
		
01:57:46 --> 01:57:48
			a Pauline Christian. But how did he write
		
01:57:48 --> 01:57:51
			his crucifixion narrative? He scoured the Tanakh for
		
01:57:51 --> 01:57:52
			things he could use.
		
01:57:53 --> 01:57:55
			The dogs have encircled me. They divide up
		
01:57:55 --> 01:57:57
			my garments. I can use that.
		
01:57:58 --> 01:58:00
			So let me say it again. Matthew believed
		
01:58:00 --> 01:58:03
			that Jesus was born when Mary was unmarried.
		
01:58:03 --> 01:58:04
			She was yet to be married. In other
		
01:58:04 --> 01:58:06
			words, she was virgin.
		
01:58:06 --> 01:58:08
			Matthew wanted to find a prophecy of this
		
01:58:08 --> 01:58:09
			in the Tanakh.
		
01:58:09 --> 01:58:11
			So he read the Greek translation of the
		
01:58:11 --> 01:58:13
			Old Testament, and his eyes settled upon the
		
01:58:13 --> 01:58:15
			words Parfenas and Emmanuel
		
01:58:15 --> 01:58:18
			in, Isaiah 714. But the virgin birth of
		
01:58:18 --> 01:58:20
			Jesus does not hinge
		
01:58:20 --> 01:58:21
			on Isaiah 714.
		
01:58:22 --> 01:58:24
			Luke who also Luke who wrote independently
		
01:58:25 --> 01:58:28
			in Matthew also believed that Jesus was born
		
01:58:28 --> 01:58:30
			from a virgin. And Luke did not cite
		
01:58:30 --> 01:58:30
			Isaiah 714.
		
01:58:31 --> 01:58:34
			Clearly, both Matthew and Luke were drawing from
		
01:58:34 --> 01:58:36
			an antecedent tradition that Jesus was born from
		
01:58:36 --> 01:58:38
			a virgin. It is in the way that
		
01:58:38 --> 01:58:40
			they try to explain this event
		
01:58:41 --> 01:58:42
			that is problematic.
		
01:58:42 --> 01:58:44
			So Luke tried to appeal to his Greek
		
01:58:44 --> 01:58:45
			audience
		
01:58:45 --> 01:58:48
			by explicitly modeling Jesus like a son of
		
01:58:48 --> 01:58:50
			Zeus, while Matthew was more subtle in his
		
01:58:50 --> 01:58:53
			Greek appeal by interpreting a Tanakh verse through
		
01:58:53 --> 01:58:55
			a Greek lens.
		
01:58:55 --> 01:58:57
			Okay, what else do we gather about Jesus
		
01:58:57 --> 01:58:58
			from the Quran?
		
01:58:59 --> 01:59:01
			Jesus claimed that his mother was fed by
		
01:59:01 --> 01:59:01
			angels.
		
01:59:02 --> 01:59:03
			Now given her claim
		
01:59:03 --> 01:59:05
			that the birth of her son was miraculous,
		
01:59:06 --> 01:59:07
			this is not implausible that she would make
		
01:59:07 --> 01:59:08
			this claim.
		
01:59:09 --> 01:59:10
			And we'll talk about this. This is related
		
01:59:10 --> 01:59:12
			to Christian apocrypha. That's why it's in red.
		
01:59:12 --> 01:59:14
			Jesus claimed that he spoke as an infant.
		
01:59:14 --> 01:59:17
			Given his claim of miraculous birth, this is
		
01:59:17 --> 01:59:19
			not implausible. We'll also talk about this. It's
		
01:59:19 --> 01:59:20
			related to the Christian apocrypha.
		
01:59:21 --> 01:59:23
			Jesus claimed that he formed birds from clay
		
01:59:23 --> 01:59:25
			and gave them life by God's leave.
		
01:59:26 --> 01:59:28
			Again, given his previous claims, this is not
		
01:59:28 --> 01:59:30
			implausible. We'll also talk about this. It's related
		
01:59:30 --> 01:59:31
			to the Christian apocrypha.
		
01:59:31 --> 01:59:33
			Jesus claimed to be a servant of God.
		
01:59:33 --> 01:59:36
			Makes total sense. Jesus was only sent to
		
01:59:36 --> 01:59:39
			the Israelites, the Jews. Makes total sense. Jesus
		
01:59:39 --> 01:59:40
			claimed to be a prophet, a healer, a
		
01:59:40 --> 01:59:41
			prophet
		
01:59:41 --> 01:59:45
			messiah. Makes total sense. Jesus claimed to be
		
01:59:45 --> 01:59:47
			a word from God. Okay. So
		
01:59:48 --> 01:59:49
			let's pause here for a minute. This is
		
01:59:49 --> 01:59:51
			also related to the
		
01:59:51 --> 01:59:52
			mishmash
		
01:59:52 --> 01:59:54
			theory I mentioned earlier,
		
01:59:54 --> 01:59:57
			that the prophet Muhammad denied the divinity of
		
01:59:57 --> 01:59:59
			Jesus, but also called Jesus the Lagos.
		
02:00:00 --> 02:00:02
			And in John's gospel, the Lagos is God.
		
02:00:02 --> 02:00:04
			In the beginning was the word, the word
		
02:00:04 --> 02:00:04
			was with God,
		
02:00:06 --> 02:00:08
			and the word was God. Most historians would
		
02:00:08 --> 02:00:10
			say that it is highly implausible that Jesus
		
02:00:10 --> 02:00:12
			believed himself to be the Logos.
		
02:00:12 --> 02:00:15
			Therefore, the Quran is also saying something implausible
		
02:00:16 --> 02:00:19
			here about Jesus. This is the claim. So
		
02:00:19 --> 02:00:20
			what's my response to this?
		
02:00:21 --> 02:00:23
			Okay. When the Quran says that Jesus is
		
02:00:23 --> 02:00:25
			a word from God,
		
02:00:26 --> 02:00:27
			kadimatun min Allah,
		
02:00:28 --> 02:00:30
			okay? Who says this? It is the angel
		
02:00:30 --> 02:00:32
			who announces this to Mary.
		
02:00:32 --> 02:00:35
			So Jesus' title, a word from God
		
02:00:35 --> 02:00:38
			or word of God is related to his
		
02:00:38 --> 02:00:38
			birth.
		
02:00:39 --> 02:00:41
			It has nothing to do with his supposed
		
02:00:41 --> 02:00:41
			pre eternality.
		
02:00:42 --> 02:00:45
			Okay? And this is significant because again, the
		
02:00:45 --> 02:00:48
			Quran here is not borrowing a middle platonic
		
02:00:48 --> 02:00:50
			term or concept like the gospel of John
		
02:00:50 --> 02:00:53
			does, But rather the Quran is continuing
		
02:00:53 --> 02:00:55
			the established Jewish
		
02:00:55 --> 02:00:56
			miracle birth tradition.
		
02:00:57 --> 02:00:59
			How so? Well, in Genesis 18/14,
		
02:01:00 --> 02:01:03
			Sarah laughs and says, shall I bear a
		
02:01:03 --> 02:01:04
			child and I am old?
		
02:01:05 --> 02:01:07
			What did the angel say to her? Is
		
02:01:07 --> 02:01:09
			anything too hard from the Lord?
		
02:01:10 --> 02:01:11
			Okay, but in Hebrew
		
02:01:11 --> 02:01:12
			it says,
		
02:01:17 --> 02:01:17
			literally,
		
02:01:18 --> 02:01:19
			is any word
		
02:01:20 --> 02:01:21
			too hard for the Lord?
		
02:01:22 --> 02:01:23
			Dvar means word.
		
02:01:24 --> 02:01:25
			In Greek, this is translated
		
02:01:26 --> 02:01:27
			as Khrayma
		
02:01:27 --> 02:01:28
			not Lagos.
		
02:01:29 --> 02:01:31
			What does davar mean in the context of
		
02:01:31 --> 02:01:31
			Genesis?
		
02:01:32 --> 02:01:33
			It means an edict,
		
02:01:33 --> 02:01:34
			a matter,
		
02:01:34 --> 02:01:36
			an affair or a decree.
		
02:01:37 --> 02:01:39
			Is anything that God decrees,
		
02:01:39 --> 02:01:42
			is any affair that God wills too hard
		
02:01:42 --> 02:01:44
			for him to do? This is the meaning
		
02:01:44 --> 02:01:45
			of what the angels
		
02:01:45 --> 02:01:46
			says to Sarah.
		
02:01:47 --> 02:01:49
			Okay, so in the Quran, when the angel
		
02:01:49 --> 02:01:50
			says to Mary,
		
02:01:54 --> 02:01:56
			God gives you glad tidings of a word
		
02:01:56 --> 02:01:57
			from Him.
		
02:01:57 --> 02:02:00
			In the Jewish context, the 1st century Jerusalem,
		
02:02:01 --> 02:02:04
			Mary would have understood this as God decreeing
		
02:02:04 --> 02:02:05
			some
		
02:02:05 --> 02:02:06
			affair for
		
02:02:07 --> 02:02:08
			her. Okay? In fact, Jasonius
		
02:02:08 --> 02:02:11
			says that the Arabic equivalent in meaning to
		
02:02:11 --> 02:02:12
			davar is amr.
		
02:02:13 --> 02:02:15
			When Mary says to the angel that she's
		
02:02:15 --> 02:02:15
			a virgin,
		
02:02:16 --> 02:02:17
			the angel says,
		
02:02:20 --> 02:02:22
			Whenever God decrees a matter,
		
02:02:22 --> 02:02:25
			an amr, an affair, a davar, a khayma,
		
02:02:26 --> 02:02:29
			He only says be and it is. Okay,
		
02:02:29 --> 02:02:31
			so Jesus is that davar, that khramah, that
		
02:02:31 --> 02:02:32
			amr, that kalima.
		
02:02:33 --> 02:02:35
			Right? So amr and kalima are basically in
		
02:02:35 --> 02:02:37
			the context of Jesus in the Quran synonymous.
		
02:02:38 --> 02:02:39
			Or in Surat Maryam,
		
02:02:39 --> 02:02:42
			right? The angel says to Mary, Wakana Amram
		
02:02:42 --> 02:02:44
			Maqaddiyyah, it is a matter
		
02:02:44 --> 02:02:45
			decreed.
		
02:02:46 --> 02:02:47
			In other words, a word
		
02:02:47 --> 02:02:50
			decreed. So the Quran tells us how it's
		
02:02:50 --> 02:02:51
			using the word kalimah,
		
02:02:51 --> 02:02:54
			okay, with respect to Jesus, not in the
		
02:02:54 --> 02:02:55
			Greek polytheistic,
		
02:02:56 --> 02:02:57
			Johanan sense,
		
02:02:57 --> 02:02:59
			but in the proper monotheistic
		
02:02:59 --> 02:03:00
			Jewish sense.
		
02:03:01 --> 02:03:05
			So tavar means something that God decreed. And
		
02:03:05 --> 02:03:07
			this is all over the Tanakh, even outside
		
02:03:07 --> 02:03:08
			of the birth narrative tradition.
		
02:03:09 --> 02:03:10
			Like in Genesis 2450,
		
02:03:11 --> 02:03:11
			Laban
		
02:03:11 --> 02:03:12
			and Bethuel
		
02:03:13 --> 02:03:15
			said about Rebekah marrying Isaac.
		
02:03:15 --> 02:03:17
			They say, this is from the Lord. We
		
02:03:17 --> 02:03:20
			have no say in the matter. But that's
		
02:03:20 --> 02:03:21
			a translation. In the Hebrew, what does it
		
02:03:21 --> 02:03:22
			say?
		
02:03:24 --> 02:03:25
			Literally,
		
02:03:25 --> 02:03:26
			this word,
		
02:03:27 --> 02:03:30
			this matter, this affair, this decree is from
		
02:03:30 --> 02:03:32
			God. We can't do anything to stop it.
		
02:03:32 --> 02:03:35
			So I would conclude that the Quran's epithet
		
02:03:35 --> 02:03:37
			for Jesus, a word of God or a
		
02:03:37 --> 02:03:40
			word from God, is not at all equivalent
		
02:03:40 --> 02:03:42
			to the Juhannan Lagos,
		
02:03:42 --> 02:03:43
			but rather the Tanakhidavar
		
02:03:45 --> 02:03:45
			translated
		
02:03:46 --> 02:03:48
			khayma in the Septuagint.
		
02:03:48 --> 02:03:51
			What's interesting is that even Luke, when speaking
		
02:03:51 --> 02:03:53
			of Elizabeth giving birth to John the Baptist
		
02:03:54 --> 02:03:57
			in her old age, even Luke uses this
		
02:03:57 --> 02:03:58
			Jewish language.
		
02:03:58 --> 02:03:59
			Right? In Luke 137,
		
02:04:00 --> 02:04:01
			right?
		
02:04:02 --> 02:04:04
			He says, for no word from God,
		
02:04:05 --> 02:04:07
			for no word from God, karimatummin
		
02:04:08 --> 02:04:10
			Allah, shall be devoid of power. That's literally
		
02:04:10 --> 02:04:12
			what the Greek says. Right?
		
02:04:15 --> 02:04:18
			And so the Quran confirms that indeed, Jesus
		
02:04:18 --> 02:04:19
			is the Word of God,
		
02:04:19 --> 02:04:22
			but not in the Christian sense, but rather
		
02:04:22 --> 02:04:24
			in the sense that Mary would have understood
		
02:04:24 --> 02:04:28
			it, that Jesus was a decreed thing, alakaha
		
02:04:28 --> 02:04:31
			ila Maryam, that he thrust upon Mary. Mary's,
		
02:04:31 --> 02:04:34
			sorry, Jesus's birth was a sign of God's
		
02:04:34 --> 02:04:35
			greatness
		
02:04:35 --> 02:04:36
			and power.
		
02:04:37 --> 02:04:37
			Okay.
		
02:04:38 --> 02:04:40
			And next, we have Jesus broadly confirmed the
		
02:04:40 --> 02:04:42
			Torah, but also made certain amendments,
		
02:04:43 --> 02:04:43
			ameliorations
		
02:04:43 --> 02:04:45
			to it, makes sense. Jesus
		
02:04:46 --> 02:04:49
			constantly enjoyed prayer and charity, makes sense. Jesus
		
02:04:49 --> 02:04:50
			predicted the coming of a powerful figure to
		
02:04:50 --> 02:04:53
			come after him, Makes sense. The bar in
		
02:04:53 --> 02:04:54
			ash, the son of man, it's all over
		
02:04:54 --> 02:04:57
			the synoptic gospels. Check out the podcast we
		
02:04:57 --> 02:04:59
			did on the son of man. Jesus celebrated
		
02:04:59 --> 02:05:01
			a notable feast with his disciples. Makes sense.
		
02:05:01 --> 02:05:03
			Jesus told the Israelites to fear God and
		
02:05:03 --> 02:05:06
			follow him, makes sense. Jesus preached
		
02:05:07 --> 02:05:08
			the gospel, the Injil
		
02:05:09 --> 02:05:12
			to the Israelites, which emphasized having intimate knowledge
		
02:05:12 --> 02:05:14
			of God leading to a strong love of
		
02:05:14 --> 02:05:17
			God makes sense. Jesus taught the Israelites to
		
02:05:17 --> 02:05:19
			be reflections of the divine qualities,
		
02:05:20 --> 02:05:23
			to be lordly servants makes sense. Jesus was
		
02:05:23 --> 02:05:25
			aided with the Holy Spirit. Okay, here,
		
02:05:26 --> 02:05:29
			pause here real quick. Christian polemicists claim that
		
02:05:29 --> 02:05:32
			the Quran is again affirming a Trinitarian idea,
		
02:05:32 --> 02:05:35
			while also denying the divinity of Jesus. The
		
02:05:35 --> 02:05:37
			Quran is confused again.
		
02:05:37 --> 02:05:39
			But the truth is the Quran is not
		
02:05:39 --> 02:05:41
			confused. The critics are confused.
		
02:05:42 --> 02:05:44
			If Yeshua Hanusdi, if Jesus of Nazareth, peace
		
02:05:44 --> 02:05:45
			be upon him,
		
02:05:46 --> 02:05:48
			said in the 1st century, that he was
		
02:05:48 --> 02:05:51
			being aided by Ruach Kadosh,
		
02:05:51 --> 02:05:53
			what did he mean? Did he mean the
		
02:05:53 --> 02:05:55
			3rd person of a triune deity?
		
02:05:55 --> 02:05:58
			Of course not, that's a total anachronism.
		
02:05:59 --> 02:06:02
			The phrase Ruach Khadosh is mentioned 3 times
		
02:06:02 --> 02:06:03
			in the Tanakh.
		
02:06:03 --> 02:06:06
			Once in the Psalms and twice in Isaiah.
		
02:06:06 --> 02:06:07
			So here's Psalm 5111.
		
02:06:08 --> 02:06:10
			Do not cast me away from your presence
		
02:06:11 --> 02:06:13
			and do not take away from me,
		
02:06:16 --> 02:06:17
			your Holy Spirit.
		
02:06:18 --> 02:06:21
			So this is called a by member segment
		
02:06:22 --> 02:06:24
			in synonymic parallelism. This is very common in
		
02:06:24 --> 02:06:25
			Hebrew
		
02:06:25 --> 02:06:27
			lyrical poetry. And the Psalms
		
02:06:28 --> 02:06:30
			is Hebrew lyrical poetry. In other words, the
		
02:06:30 --> 02:06:33
			second line is just a restatement of the
		
02:06:33 --> 02:06:34
			first line.
		
02:06:34 --> 02:06:37
			Do not cast me away from your presence.
		
02:06:37 --> 02:06:40
			Meaning do not take away from me your
		
02:06:40 --> 02:06:41
			holy spirit.
		
02:06:42 --> 02:06:44
			So the Ruach HaDosh is an expression
		
02:06:45 --> 02:06:48
			that denotes the presence of God's power.
		
02:06:49 --> 02:06:52
			It denotes the presence of God's power by
		
02:06:52 --> 02:06:54
			which he accomplishes his divine will.
		
02:06:55 --> 02:06:55
			So again,
		
02:06:56 --> 02:06:58
			just as we saw with Jesus being a
		
02:06:58 --> 02:07:00
			word from God, a davar
		
02:07:00 --> 02:07:01
			mii Adonai,
		
02:07:02 --> 02:07:03
			the Quran restores
		
02:07:03 --> 02:07:06
			and re instates the true meaning
		
02:07:07 --> 02:07:09
			of the Hebrew phrase, Ru'akhadosh.
		
02:07:11 --> 02:07:13
			Continuing, Jesus made the Jewish establishment angry.
		
02:07:14 --> 02:07:16
			Makes sense. Jesus was not crucified,
		
02:07:16 --> 02:07:18
			although there was some crucifixion event. Those who
		
02:07:18 --> 02:07:20
			made the claim that Jesus was crucified did
		
02:07:20 --> 02:07:23
			so based on conjecture. This is plausible. There
		
02:07:23 --> 02:07:26
			were no eyewitnesses. We talked about this last
		
02:07:26 --> 02:07:27
			time, just mistaken identity.
		
02:07:28 --> 02:07:29
			Jesus was claimed by his Jewish followers to
		
02:07:29 --> 02:07:32
			have ascended into heaven. Makes sense, like Elijah
		
02:07:32 --> 02:07:33
			or Enoch. This was the claim of his
		
02:07:33 --> 02:07:34
			Jewish followers.
		
02:07:35 --> 02:07:37
			And finally, shortly after Jesus's departure,
		
02:07:38 --> 02:07:40
			2 factions of Nazarenes emerged. 1 of them
		
02:07:40 --> 02:07:43
			went astray. Makes sense, that's what happened.
		
02:07:43 --> 02:07:44
			Okay,
		
02:07:44 --> 02:07:46
			continuing then. Now
		
02:07:46 --> 02:07:47
			let's look at the words of the New
		
02:07:47 --> 02:07:50
			Testament Jesus. Okay. So there's a lot of
		
02:07:50 --> 02:07:52
			difference of opinion as to when the 39
		
02:07:52 --> 02:07:54
			books of the Tanakh were declared in official
		
02:07:54 --> 02:07:57
			closed canon, whether it happened before or after
		
02:07:57 --> 02:08:01
			the common era. John Collins says that it
		
02:08:01 --> 02:08:02
			happened at the end of the 1st century
		
02:08:02 --> 02:08:04
			of the common era.
		
02:08:04 --> 02:08:04
			Okay?
		
02:08:06 --> 02:08:08
			For our present purposes, it really doesn't matter.
		
02:08:08 --> 02:08:10
			The the seven main books of the Old
		
02:08:10 --> 02:08:11
			Testament Apocrypha
		
02:08:12 --> 02:08:14
			were never considered totally authentic
		
02:08:14 --> 02:08:16
			by Jewish authorities
		
02:08:16 --> 02:08:18
			before or after Jesus. So these are 1st
		
02:08:18 --> 02:08:19
			and second Maccabees.
		
02:08:21 --> 02:08:23
			Judith, Tobit, Sirach, Baruch, and the Wisdom of
		
02:08:23 --> 02:08:24
			Solomon.
		
02:08:25 --> 02:08:27
			And these are also called the
		
02:08:28 --> 02:08:30
			Does this mean that these books have no
		
02:08:30 --> 02:08:33
			value whatsoever or that they don't contain any
		
02:08:33 --> 02:08:35
			truth? No. In fact, the New Testament Jesus
		
02:08:36 --> 02:08:36
			confirms
		
02:08:37 --> 02:08:39
			certain statements, analogies and themes in some of
		
02:08:39 --> 02:08:42
			these 7 books. And this can't be denied
		
02:08:42 --> 02:08:44
			in good faith. This can't be denied by
		
02:08:44 --> 02:08:45
			an intellectually honest person.
		
02:08:46 --> 02:08:48
			I mean, Catholics outright do not deny this.
		
02:08:48 --> 02:08:50
			In fact, the Roman Catholic church went so
		
02:08:50 --> 02:08:52
			far as to declare these books to be
		
02:08:52 --> 02:08:54
			absolutely canonical. Right? The Old Testament canon of
		
02:08:54 --> 02:08:57
			the Roman Catholic church is 46 books. So
		
02:08:57 --> 02:09:00
			the Roman Catholic church disagrees with Judaism. And
		
02:09:00 --> 02:09:02
			in Judaism, these books have value. They are
		
02:09:02 --> 02:09:02
			quote, instructional,
		
02:09:03 --> 02:09:04
			but they're not canon.
		
02:09:05 --> 02:09:05
			Generally,
		
02:09:06 --> 02:09:08
			Protestants as well consider these books to have
		
02:09:08 --> 02:09:10
			value and contain elements of truth, but they're
		
02:09:10 --> 02:09:12
			not totally authentic. But then there are other
		
02:09:12 --> 02:09:14
			Old Testament apocryphal texts.
		
02:09:14 --> 02:09:17
			Like 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th Estrus.
		
02:09:17 --> 02:09:19
			Or 3rd and 4th Maccabees.
		
02:09:20 --> 02:09:21
			And so you'll find some of these books
		
02:09:21 --> 02:09:25
			in the Greek Orthodox and Slavonic canons,
		
02:09:25 --> 02:09:27
			right? Many, many books.
		
02:09:28 --> 02:09:30
			The irony about these, you know, anti Muslim
		
02:09:30 --> 02:09:31
			Christian polemicists
		
02:09:32 --> 02:09:34
			who accused the prophet Muhammad of forgery and
		
02:09:34 --> 02:09:34
			plagiarism
		
02:09:35 --> 02:09:37
			is that the New Testament Jesus engaged
		
02:09:37 --> 02:09:39
			with the Old Testament
		
02:09:39 --> 02:09:39
			Apocrypha
		
02:09:40 --> 02:09:42
			in the same way that the Quran at
		
02:09:42 --> 02:09:43
			times
		
02:09:44 --> 02:09:46
			engages with the New Testament
		
02:09:46 --> 02:09:46
			Apocrypha.
		
02:09:47 --> 02:09:48
			And I'll show you that. But let's look
		
02:09:48 --> 02:09:50
			at some examples from the New Testament Jesus.
		
02:09:51 --> 02:09:52
			Okay, so here's what the,
		
02:09:55 --> 02:09:56
			here's here's the book of Matthew and the
		
02:09:56 --> 02:09:58
			book of Sirach. Right? So Matthew was written
		
02:09:58 --> 02:10:00
			around, you know, 80, 85 CE.
		
02:10:00 --> 02:10:03
			Sirach was written around 180 BCE, something like
		
02:10:03 --> 02:10:05
			that. So they're separated by almost 300,
		
02:10:05 --> 02:10:06
			years.
		
02:10:07 --> 02:10:09
			So here's Matthew 6 19 and 20. Do
		
02:10:09 --> 02:10:11
			not store for yourselves treasures on earth where
		
02:10:11 --> 02:10:13
			moth and rust consume and where thieves break
		
02:10:13 --> 02:10:15
			in and steal, but store for yourself treasures
		
02:10:15 --> 02:10:18
			in heaven where neither moth nor rust consumes
		
02:10:18 --> 02:10:19
			and where thieves do not break in and
		
02:10:19 --> 02:10:20
			steal.
		
02:10:21 --> 02:10:22
			Here's Sirach 29, 1011.
		
02:10:23 --> 02:10:25
			Help the poor for the commandment sake and
		
02:10:25 --> 02:10:28
			then their need do not send them away
		
02:10:28 --> 02:10:30
			empty handed. Lose your silver for the sake
		
02:10:30 --> 02:10:31
			of a brother or a friend and do
		
02:10:31 --> 02:10:33
			not let it rust under a stone and
		
02:10:33 --> 02:10:35
			be lost. Store up your treasure according to
		
02:10:35 --> 02:10:37
			the commandments of the most high, and it
		
02:10:37 --> 02:10:39
			will profit you more than gold. So we
		
02:10:39 --> 02:10:42
			have this common theme of not allowing rust
		
02:10:42 --> 02:10:44
			to destroy our earthly treasure by getting rid
		
02:10:44 --> 02:10:47
			of it. And in doing so, we store
		
02:10:47 --> 02:10:48
			up treasures in heaven. In other words, we
		
02:10:48 --> 02:10:50
			must give our wealth to the poor and
		
02:10:50 --> 02:10:51
			less fortunate in order for it to benefit
		
02:10:51 --> 02:10:54
			us. I think it's clear that the Methian
		
02:10:54 --> 02:10:57
			Jesus is alluding to these verses in Sirach
		
02:10:57 --> 02:10:59
			as a way of making his point more
		
02:10:59 --> 02:11:02
			vivid by using language that his initial audience
		
02:11:02 --> 02:11:05
			is already familiar with. When we give charity
		
02:11:05 --> 02:11:06
			in this world,
		
02:11:06 --> 02:11:09
			that wealth that we lose, God will turn
		
02:11:09 --> 02:11:11
			into treasure in the next world. The Matthean
		
02:11:11 --> 02:11:14
			Jesus is just restating these verses from Sirach.
		
02:11:15 --> 02:11:16
			And Sirach is apocryphal.
		
02:11:19 --> 02:11:21
			Does this mean that what Jesus is saying
		
02:11:21 --> 02:11:22
			is false?
		
02:11:22 --> 02:11:24
			No, Jesus is simply confirming
		
02:11:24 --> 02:11:28
			that specific teaching in Sirach. That teaching is
		
02:11:28 --> 02:11:30
			true. It was likely popular during his day.
		
02:11:30 --> 02:11:33
			Does this mean that Jesus believed every word
		
02:11:33 --> 02:11:35
			of the book of Sirach? No, not necessarily.
		
02:11:36 --> 02:11:37
			This was just an effective way of making
		
02:11:37 --> 02:11:38
			his point.
		
02:11:40 --> 02:11:42
			Example number 2, John 63554.
		
02:11:43 --> 02:11:45
			Jesus said to them, so this is Joanne
		
02:11:45 --> 02:11:46
			and Jesus.
		
02:11:47 --> 02:11:48
			I am the bread of life. Whoever comes
		
02:11:48 --> 02:11:50
			to me will never be hungry. And whoever
		
02:11:50 --> 02:11:53
			believes in me will never be thirsty. Those
		
02:11:53 --> 02:11:55
			who eat my flesh and drink my blood
		
02:11:55 --> 02:11:56
			have eternal
		
02:11:56 --> 02:11:57
			life. Sirach 2421.
		
02:11:58 --> 02:11:59
			Those who eat of me
		
02:12:00 --> 02:12:02
			will hunger no for more for more. And
		
02:12:02 --> 02:12:04
			those who drink of me will thirst for
		
02:12:04 --> 02:12:04
			more.
		
02:12:05 --> 02:12:08
			I think there's a clear interplay here. So
		
02:12:08 --> 02:12:10
			the speaker in Sirach
		
02:12:10 --> 02:12:12
			is the personified wisdom,
		
02:12:12 --> 02:12:13
			Sophia
		
02:12:13 --> 02:12:14
			Hukma of God.
		
02:12:15 --> 02:12:16
			When we consume wisdom,
		
02:12:17 --> 02:12:19
			God's wisdom, the language is clearly metaphorical.
		
02:12:19 --> 02:12:21
			That is to say, when we wholeheartedly
		
02:12:22 --> 02:12:25
			dedicate ourselves totally to God's teachings,
		
02:12:25 --> 02:12:27
			we will only find ourselves eager to learn
		
02:12:27 --> 02:12:30
			more. So why the analogy of eating and
		
02:12:30 --> 02:12:32
			drinking? Well, in the ancient world, people often,
		
02:12:32 --> 02:12:34
			died because of something they ate or drink.
		
02:12:34 --> 02:12:36
			When you eat or drink something and take
		
02:12:36 --> 02:12:39
			it into your body, you're demonstrating total trust
		
02:12:39 --> 02:12:41
			That what you're eating or drinking will not
		
02:12:41 --> 02:12:43
			harm you. It demonstrates total trust.
		
02:12:43 --> 02:12:46
			Now the Johann and Jesus borrows this analogy
		
02:12:46 --> 02:12:49
			because his audience knows it well. So now,
		
02:12:49 --> 02:12:51
			the Johannan Jesus as the logos
		
02:12:52 --> 02:12:54
			claims to be that very wisdom of God.
		
02:12:55 --> 02:12:55
			But now,
		
02:12:56 --> 02:12:59
			by consuming his flesh and blood, he adds,
		
02:12:59 --> 02:13:01
			you will never again be hungry or thirsty.
		
02:13:01 --> 02:13:04
			So the Johann and Jesus revises this. You
		
02:13:04 --> 02:13:06
			will never again be hungry or thirsty
		
02:13:07 --> 02:13:09
			because you will have consumed the fullness of
		
02:13:09 --> 02:13:11
			God's wisdom in the person, the flesh and
		
02:13:11 --> 02:13:13
			blood of Jesus Christ, who is a divine
		
02:13:13 --> 02:13:16
			being. In other words, the Johannan Jesus confirms
		
02:13:16 --> 02:13:17
			this teaching from Sirach,
		
02:13:18 --> 02:13:20
			but he takes it a step further. So
		
02:13:20 --> 02:13:23
			like Matthew, he couches a Greek or pagan
		
02:13:23 --> 02:13:23
			concept
		
02:13:24 --> 02:13:25
			in Jewish language.
		
02:13:27 --> 02:13:28
			Example number 3,
		
02:13:29 --> 02:13:31
			John 1022. At the time the festival of
		
02:13:31 --> 02:13:32
			the dedication
		
02:13:32 --> 02:13:35
			took place in Jerusalem, it was winter. 1st
		
02:13:35 --> 02:13:35
			Maccabees
		
02:13:36 --> 02:13:36
			4 59,
		
02:13:37 --> 02:13:39
			then Judas and his brothers, Judas Maccabees
		
02:13:40 --> 02:13:41
			and his brothers and all the assembly of
		
02:13:41 --> 02:13:43
			Israel determined that every year
		
02:13:43 --> 02:13:46
			at that season of that season
		
02:13:48 --> 02:13:50
			The author should be observant joy and etcetera.
		
02:13:50 --> 02:13:52
			So the feast of the dedication is called
		
02:13:52 --> 02:13:53
			Hanukkah,
		
02:13:53 --> 02:13:56
			right? And Hanukkah does not appear even once
		
02:13:56 --> 02:13:58
			in any book of the canonical Tanakh.
		
02:13:59 --> 02:14:01
			It only appears in the apocryphal book of
		
02:14:01 --> 02:14:02
			1st Maccabees.
		
02:14:02 --> 02:14:04
			So John tells us that the Jews at
		
02:14:04 --> 02:14:07
			the time of Jesus were celebrating an event
		
02:14:07 --> 02:14:10
			that is not described in any canonical book
		
02:14:10 --> 02:14:10
			of scripture.
		
02:14:11 --> 02:14:14
			Hanukkah commemorated the Maccabean revolt led by Judas
		
02:14:14 --> 02:14:16
			Maccabees and his brothers, the dedication of the
		
02:14:16 --> 02:14:19
			temple. No, the oil burning for 8 days,
		
02:14:19 --> 02:14:19
			etcetera.
		
02:14:20 --> 02:14:22
			In John 7, Jesus goes to Jerusalem to
		
02:14:22 --> 02:14:23
			celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.
		
02:14:24 --> 02:14:25
			And on the day of the Feast of
		
02:14:25 --> 02:14:28
			the Dedication, he was walking along Solomon's porch.
		
02:14:29 --> 02:14:31
			It seems that John is telling us that
		
02:14:31 --> 02:14:33
			the Johann and Jesus confirmed the feast of
		
02:14:33 --> 02:14:34
			the dedication
		
02:14:34 --> 02:14:37
			as being true and historical. That Jesus celebrated
		
02:14:38 --> 02:14:40
			a feast that was only found in the
		
02:14:40 --> 02:14:41
			Apocrypha.
		
02:14:44 --> 02:14:46
			Example number 4. Matthew 2337.
		
02:14:47 --> 02:14:49
			And there's only 5 of these. Jerusalem, Jerusalem.
		
02:14:49 --> 02:14:51
			The city that kills the prophets.
		
02:14:52 --> 02:14:53
			Okay. And stones those who are sent to
		
02:14:53 --> 02:14:55
			it. How often
		
02:14:55 --> 02:14:57
			have I desired to gather your children together
		
02:14:57 --> 02:14:59
			as a hen gathers her brood under her
		
02:14:59 --> 02:15:01
			wings, and you are not willing. See your
		
02:15:01 --> 02:15:03
			house is left to you desolate.
		
02:15:04 --> 02:15:05
			2nd estrus, 1,
		
02:15:07 --> 02:15:09
			chapter 1 30 to 33. I gathered you
		
02:15:09 --> 02:15:11
			as a hen, gathers her chicks under her
		
02:15:11 --> 02:15:14
			wings. But now, what shall you what shall
		
02:15:14 --> 02:15:16
			I do to you? I will cast you
		
02:15:16 --> 02:15:17
			out from my presence.
		
02:15:18 --> 02:15:20
			I have sent you my servants, the prophets,
		
02:15:20 --> 02:15:22
			but you have taken them and killed them.
		
02:15:22 --> 02:15:23
			Your house is desolate.
		
02:15:23 --> 02:15:26
			So here we see a clear cut correspondence
		
02:15:27 --> 02:15:29
			between the Methian Jesus and the author of
		
02:15:29 --> 02:15:30
			second estrus.
		
02:15:31 --> 02:15:34
			Now neither Jews, Catholics or Protestants consider 2nd
		
02:15:34 --> 02:15:34
			Estrus
		
02:15:35 --> 02:15:35
			canonical.
		
02:15:35 --> 02:15:38
			Chapters 1 and 2 of 2nd Estrus
		
02:15:38 --> 02:15:39
			is also called
		
02:15:39 --> 02:15:41
			5th Ezra, by the way. It's a little
		
02:15:41 --> 02:15:42
			confusing.
		
02:15:42 --> 02:15:44
			So here's the interesting dilemma for the Christians
		
02:15:44 --> 02:15:46
			when it comes to 5th Ezra.
		
02:15:47 --> 02:15:50
			Obviously, most Christian confessionals believe that that 5th
		
02:15:50 --> 02:15:52
			Ezra was written by a Jewish author.
		
02:15:53 --> 02:15:55
			Not Ezra, but a Jewish author before the
		
02:15:55 --> 02:15:56
			Christian era.
		
02:15:57 --> 02:15:59
			If that's true, then clearly the Methian Jesus
		
02:16:00 --> 02:16:01
			is alluding to paraphrasing
		
02:16:02 --> 02:16:03
			and quoting
		
02:16:03 --> 02:16:06
			5th Ezra, also known as 2nd Esdras,
		
02:16:06 --> 02:16:07
			chapter 1 verses 30
		
02:16:07 --> 02:16:09
			to 33. So Jesus is quoting Apocrypha.
		
02:16:10 --> 02:16:12
			The majority of historical scholars, however,
		
02:16:13 --> 02:16:16
			placed the writing of 5th Ezra after the
		
02:16:16 --> 02:16:17
			Christian period.
		
02:16:17 --> 02:16:19
			I believe that it was written by a
		
02:16:19 --> 02:16:22
			Christian, a Pauline Christian, who tried to deceive
		
02:16:22 --> 02:16:24
			his Jewish audience by pretending to be the
		
02:16:24 --> 02:16:25
			ancient
		
02:16:25 --> 02:16:26
			scribe Ezra
		
02:16:27 --> 02:16:29
			of the 5th century BCE. I mean, talk
		
02:16:29 --> 02:16:31
			about a truly ambitious forgery.
		
02:16:31 --> 02:16:34
			Right? So in this case, the methean Jesus
		
02:16:34 --> 02:16:36
			is not quoting 5th Ezra, but the other
		
02:16:36 --> 02:16:36
			way around.
		
02:16:37 --> 02:16:39
			But why is this also problematic for the
		
02:16:39 --> 02:16:41
			confessional Christian? I think because
		
02:16:41 --> 02:16:44
			this vividly demonstrates how commonly and brazenly
		
02:16:45 --> 02:16:46
			and successfully
		
02:16:46 --> 02:16:48
			early Pauline Christians
		
02:16:48 --> 02:16:51
			would be able to create counterfeit writings in
		
02:16:51 --> 02:16:53
			order to win people to their side.
		
02:16:53 --> 02:16:55
			So not only were gospels and epistles forged
		
02:16:56 --> 02:16:57
			in the name of Jesus' apostles,
		
02:16:58 --> 02:17:00
			but Pauline Christians were even bold enough to
		
02:17:00 --> 02:17:01
			forge Old Testament
		
02:17:02 --> 02:17:03
			apocryphal books.
		
02:17:04 --> 02:17:05
			Really quite amazing.
		
02:17:07 --> 02:17:08
			Example number 5, Matthew 2743.
		
02:17:09 --> 02:17:10
			He trusted in God. Let him deliver him
		
02:17:10 --> 02:17:12
			from his enemies, for he said I am
		
02:17:12 --> 02:17:13
			the son of God. Wisdom,
		
02:17:14 --> 02:17:16
			2/18. If the righteous man is God's son,
		
02:17:16 --> 02:17:18
			he will help him and will deliver him
		
02:17:18 --> 02:17:19
			from the hand of his adversaries.
		
02:17:20 --> 02:17:22
			So clearly Matthew has the wisdom of Solomon
		
02:17:22 --> 02:17:24
			in mind here. Now Matthew may not have
		
02:17:24 --> 02:17:27
			believed that the wisdom of Solomon will inspire
		
02:17:27 --> 02:17:30
			scripture from beginning to end. But that did
		
02:17:30 --> 02:17:32
			not stop him from saying that the author
		
02:17:32 --> 02:17:33
			successfully predicted
		
02:17:33 --> 02:17:35
			something that supposedly happened to Jesus.
		
02:17:36 --> 02:17:38
			It's also plausible that Matthew did believe that
		
02:17:38 --> 02:17:40
			the wisdom of Solomon was inspired by God.
		
02:17:40 --> 02:17:43
			Catholics would agree with Matthew. Protestants would not.
		
02:17:45 --> 02:17:47
			Okay. So now I think we're ready to
		
02:17:47 --> 02:17:49
			look at the Quran's engagement with the Christian
		
02:17:49 --> 02:17:50
			apocrypha.
		
02:17:51 --> 02:17:51
			Okay?
		
02:17:52 --> 02:17:54
			As I mentioned, we'll look at 4 writings,
		
02:17:54 --> 02:17:56
			the proto gospel of James, the gospel of
		
02:17:56 --> 02:17:59
			pseudo Matthew, the infancy gospel of Thomas, and
		
02:17:59 --> 02:18:01
			the Syriac Infancy Gospel, also known as also
		
02:18:01 --> 02:18:03
			known as the Arabic Infancy Gospel.
		
02:18:03 --> 02:18:05
			Does it make sense that the prophet copied
		
02:18:05 --> 02:18:06
			these sources?
		
02:18:08 --> 02:18:09
			Okay. So let's start with the proto gospel
		
02:18:09 --> 02:18:10
			of James.
		
02:18:12 --> 02:18:14
			The proto gospel of James was most likely
		
02:18:14 --> 02:18:16
			written, in the first half of the second
		
02:18:16 --> 02:18:18
			century, not long after the composition of the
		
02:18:18 --> 02:18:20
			gospel of John in the book of Acts.
		
02:18:20 --> 02:18:21
			The author attempts to harmonize
		
02:18:22 --> 02:18:24
			elements found in both Matthew,
		
02:18:25 --> 02:18:28
			and Luke. Despite its attribution to James, the
		
02:18:28 --> 02:18:30
			gospel was definitely not written by James. So
		
02:18:30 --> 02:18:32
			we have nothing authentic from the real James,
		
02:18:32 --> 02:18:34
			the just, Yaquefatzadeq.
		
02:18:35 --> 02:18:37
			The so called proto gospel of James is
		
02:18:37 --> 02:18:38
			pseudepigraphal.
		
02:18:39 --> 02:18:41
			Now how does the Quran engage with the
		
02:18:41 --> 02:18:43
			proto gospel of James? Is there direct
		
02:18:44 --> 02:18:45
			literary dependence
		
02:18:46 --> 02:18:48
			or is something else happening? So I'll come
		
02:18:48 --> 02:18:49
			back to this in a minute, Insha'Allah. But
		
02:18:49 --> 02:18:51
			here's a quote from I like this quote
		
02:18:51 --> 02:18:53
			from New Advent. It's Catholic Encyclopedia.
		
02:18:53 --> 02:18:55
			And this is about the Old Testament pseudepigrapha.
		
02:18:56 --> 02:18:57
			Old Testament pseudepigrapha
		
02:18:58 --> 02:18:59
			is what they say. It should be born
		
02:18:59 --> 02:19:01
			in mine, however, that the apocryphal character of
		
02:19:01 --> 02:19:04
			these writings, that is to say, their rejection
		
02:19:04 --> 02:19:05
			from the canon and their ungenuineness
		
02:19:06 --> 02:19:09
			do not imply that no heed whatever should
		
02:19:09 --> 02:19:10
			be taken of some of their assertions side
		
02:19:10 --> 02:19:13
			by side indeed with unwarranted and legendary facts.
		
02:19:13 --> 02:19:16
			So I'll pause here. Now that's interesting. Today,
		
02:19:16 --> 02:19:19
			there are Christians today, Christian apologists today like
		
02:19:19 --> 02:19:21
			like Mike Lacona, and I mentioned this last
		
02:19:21 --> 02:19:23
			time, who now admit that there are legends
		
02:19:23 --> 02:19:25
			in the canonical gospel accounts,
		
02:19:26 --> 02:19:28
			like the zombie apocalypse of Matthew. Let's keep
		
02:19:28 --> 02:19:29
			reading.
		
02:19:29 --> 02:19:32
			They continue to say, they contain some historical
		
02:19:32 --> 02:19:35
			data borrowed from reliable traditions or documents. Okay?
		
02:19:35 --> 02:19:37
			So the Old Testament pseudepigrapha.
		
02:19:38 --> 02:19:41
			These books contain some historical data borrowed from
		
02:19:41 --> 02:19:44
			reliable traditions or documents. And difficult though it
		
02:19:44 --> 02:19:46
			is to distinguish in them, the weak from
		
02:19:46 --> 02:19:46
			the tares.
		
02:19:47 --> 02:19:50
			It would be unwise and uncritical indiscriminately to
		
02:19:50 --> 02:19:51
			reject the whole, end quote.
		
02:19:52 --> 02:19:54
			So certainly, we can approach the New Testament
		
02:19:54 --> 02:19:55
			pseudepigrapha
		
02:19:56 --> 02:19:57
			in the same way. There is wheat among
		
02:19:57 --> 02:20:00
			the tares in the New Testament pseudepigrapha.
		
02:20:01 --> 02:20:01
			Interestingly,
		
02:20:02 --> 02:20:05
			most Christians in the world celebrate a feast
		
02:20:05 --> 02:20:06
			every November
		
02:20:06 --> 02:20:09
			called the Feast of the Entrance Into the
		
02:20:09 --> 02:20:11
			Temple of Our Most Holy Lady,
		
02:20:11 --> 02:20:14
			also called the Presentation of Mary in the
		
02:20:14 --> 02:20:14
			Temple.
		
02:20:15 --> 02:20:18
			This is a Catholic and Eastern Orthodox feast
		
02:20:18 --> 02:20:19
			every November.
		
02:20:19 --> 02:20:22
			The only text that this feast is based
		
02:20:22 --> 02:20:22
			upon
		
02:20:23 --> 02:20:25
			is this text, the proto gospel of James.
		
02:20:26 --> 02:20:28
			According to Catholics and Eastern Orthodox
		
02:20:29 --> 02:20:29
			Christians,
		
02:20:30 --> 02:20:31
			the tradition of Mary serving in the temple
		
02:20:31 --> 02:20:34
			from age 3 to 12 is a firmly
		
02:20:34 --> 02:20:38
			established tradition with ancient roots. In other words,
		
02:20:38 --> 02:20:39
			the majority of Christians affirm
		
02:20:40 --> 02:20:41
			that this gospel contains truth.
		
02:20:42 --> 02:20:42
			Okay?
		
02:20:43 --> 02:20:45
			So here are some agreed upon similarities
		
02:20:46 --> 02:20:47
			between the Koran
		
02:20:47 --> 02:20:50
			and the proto gospel of James. So the
		
02:20:50 --> 02:20:52
			mother of Mary especially dedicates her child to
		
02:20:52 --> 02:20:54
			God, irrespective of the child *.
		
02:20:55 --> 02:20:57
			As a child, Mary resided in the temple
		
02:20:57 --> 02:20:59
			and was fed by angels,
		
02:20:59 --> 02:21:01
			and rods were cast in order to determine
		
02:21:01 --> 02:21:02
			her caretaker.
		
02:21:03 --> 02:21:04
			Okay. So historically,
		
02:21:06 --> 02:21:07
			we basically have 2
		
02:21:08 --> 02:21:11
			options. Option number 1 is at some point,
		
02:21:12 --> 02:21:14
			the prophet Muhammad Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam heard this
		
02:21:14 --> 02:21:15
			text somehow,
		
02:21:15 --> 02:21:17
			the proto gospel of James in an Arabic
		
02:21:17 --> 02:21:18
			translation.
		
02:21:18 --> 02:21:21
			Now remember the prophet was a letter. Okay?
		
02:21:21 --> 02:21:22
			And even if he could read or write,
		
02:21:23 --> 02:21:24
			you know, the chances that he had a
		
02:21:24 --> 02:21:26
			nice Arabic translation of the proto gospel of
		
02:21:26 --> 02:21:27
			James
		
02:21:27 --> 02:21:29
			sitting on his bookshelf in his secret library
		
02:21:29 --> 02:21:31
			in Medina is virtually 0.
		
02:21:32 --> 02:21:34
			Unlike Matthew and Luke, who did have Greek
		
02:21:34 --> 02:21:35
			copies
		
02:21:35 --> 02:21:37
			of Mark and Q sitting on their desks
		
02:21:37 --> 02:21:39
			as it were when they wrote their gospels.
		
02:21:39 --> 02:21:41
			So the prophet must have heard this text
		
02:21:41 --> 02:21:42
			in
		
02:21:43 --> 02:21:44
			an Arabic translation.
		
02:21:44 --> 02:21:46
			Then he must have written or dictated what
		
02:21:46 --> 02:21:47
			he remembered
		
02:21:47 --> 02:21:48
			in the Quran,
		
02:21:48 --> 02:21:50
			while also adapting the text to fit in
		
02:21:50 --> 02:21:51
			with his own theology.
		
02:21:52 --> 02:21:54
			So this explains the similarities and differences. So
		
02:21:54 --> 02:21:56
			this option assumes that the prophet was directly
		
02:21:56 --> 02:21:59
			dependent upon the proto gospel of James. It
		
02:21:59 --> 02:22:01
			was direct literary dependence.
		
02:22:02 --> 02:22:02
			Option number
		
02:22:04 --> 02:22:06
			2, various traditions about marrying Jesus were transmitted
		
02:22:06 --> 02:22:10
			orally since the 1st century by various messianic
		
02:22:10 --> 02:22:10
			Jews,
		
02:22:11 --> 02:22:14
			Christians in quotes. Over time, these traditions were
		
02:22:14 --> 02:22:17
			modified and expanded by various Christian communities, including
		
02:22:17 --> 02:22:19
			the community which authored the proto gospel of
		
02:22:19 --> 02:22:21
			James in the 2nd century.
		
02:22:21 --> 02:22:23
			The versions of these traditions that were popular
		
02:22:23 --> 02:22:24
			in the Arabian Peninsula
		
02:22:25 --> 02:22:26
			made their way into the text of the
		
02:22:26 --> 02:22:27
			Quran.
		
02:22:27 --> 02:22:29
			Jerusalem, by the way, is only about 700
		
02:22:29 --> 02:22:30
			miles away from Medina.
		
02:22:31 --> 02:22:34
			It's 25 100 miles away from Rome where
		
02:22:34 --> 02:22:36
			Mark most likely wrote his gospel. Therefore, the
		
02:22:36 --> 02:22:39
			Quran is not directly dependent upon the proto
		
02:22:39 --> 02:22:41
			gospel of James, but drew its narratives from
		
02:22:41 --> 02:22:43
			a shared oral tradition
		
02:22:44 --> 02:22:46
			that was based upon an ancient Near Eastern
		
02:22:46 --> 02:22:47
			messianic
		
02:22:48 --> 02:22:49
			kirugma or proclamation.
		
02:22:50 --> 02:22:52
			So these are the two options historically, I
		
02:22:52 --> 02:22:56
			think. Okay? However, I would argue that these
		
02:22:56 --> 02:22:56
			options
		
02:22:57 --> 02:22:59
			fail to take into consideration
		
02:22:59 --> 02:23:02
			the method or the logic of the Quran's
		
02:23:03 --> 02:23:03
			unique
		
02:23:04 --> 02:23:06
			storytelling or retelling.
		
02:23:06 --> 02:23:07
			Miracles
		
02:23:07 --> 02:23:08
			aside,
		
02:23:08 --> 02:23:10
			the Quran seems to avoid
		
02:23:10 --> 02:23:12
			the historical implausibilities
		
02:23:13 --> 02:23:14
			of the Christian
		
02:23:14 --> 02:23:16
			narratives found in the proto gospel of James,
		
02:23:16 --> 02:23:18
			just as it did with the Exodus, flood
		
02:23:18 --> 02:23:20
			and Joseph narratives found in Genesis.
		
02:23:21 --> 02:23:24
			For example, the proto gospel of James mentions
		
02:23:24 --> 02:23:27
			both the Lucan census under Augustus,
		
02:23:28 --> 02:23:30
			as well as the Methian Herodian slaughter of
		
02:23:30 --> 02:23:32
			the innocents. Both of these events are highly
		
02:23:32 --> 02:23:33
			implausible historically.
		
02:23:34 --> 02:23:36
			And this is clearly a contradiction between Matthew
		
02:23:36 --> 02:23:39
			and Luke. Right? Harmonization here is just not
		
02:23:39 --> 02:23:41
			very convincing. There's no mention of these events
		
02:23:41 --> 02:23:44
			in the Quran. The Quran consistently
		
02:23:44 --> 02:23:46
			avoids the historical pitfalls
		
02:23:46 --> 02:23:47
			of the Christian
		
02:23:47 --> 02:23:48
			narratives.
		
02:23:49 --> 02:23:50
			What about Mary living in
		
02:23:51 --> 02:23:52
			or around the temple?
		
02:23:53 --> 02:23:55
			Is it historically plausible that girls were permitted
		
02:23:55 --> 02:23:57
			to live in the temple area? The answer
		
02:23:57 --> 02:24:00
			is yes. Young girls were sometimes dedicated by
		
02:24:00 --> 02:24:01
			their parents
		
02:24:01 --> 02:24:02
			for temple service.
		
02:24:03 --> 02:24:05
			And the priest, the kohanim, would ask these
		
02:24:05 --> 02:24:06
			young girls,
		
02:24:06 --> 02:24:10
			these young unmarried girls to weave the curtains
		
02:24:10 --> 02:24:11
			of the temple.
		
02:24:11 --> 02:24:13
			The proto gospel of James tells us that
		
02:24:13 --> 02:24:15
			Mary was one of these virgin weavers.
		
02:24:15 --> 02:24:17
			This was how she would specially serve God.
		
02:24:17 --> 02:24:18
			She was a servant of the temple.
		
02:24:19 --> 02:24:21
			There may be a reference to these girls
		
02:24:21 --> 02:24:22
			in 2nd Maccabees
		
02:24:22 --> 02:24:23
			3/19.
		
02:24:24 --> 02:24:26
			Right? When a Greek minister named, Heliodorus
		
02:24:27 --> 02:24:29
			tried to enter the temple, it says virgins
		
02:24:29 --> 02:24:31
			who were kept indoors ran together to the
		
02:24:31 --> 02:24:32
			gates.
		
02:24:33 --> 02:24:34
			These may have been the young girls who
		
02:24:34 --> 02:24:36
			were dedicated by their parents to serve, the
		
02:24:36 --> 02:24:39
			temple. The Quran implies this about Mary as
		
02:24:39 --> 02:24:41
			well. The Quran says that Mary set up
		
02:24:41 --> 02:24:42
			a hijab,
		
02:24:43 --> 02:24:44
			a barrier or curtain
		
02:24:44 --> 02:24:46
			in the east, presumably in the eastern part
		
02:24:46 --> 02:24:47
			of the temple,
		
02:24:48 --> 02:24:50
			in order to guard her privacy. So hijab
		
02:24:50 --> 02:24:52
			here in the Quran does not mean head
		
02:24:52 --> 02:24:52
			covering,
		
02:24:52 --> 02:24:54
			but rather like a barrier or curtain. In
		
02:24:54 --> 02:24:57
			this specific context, the head covering for women
		
02:24:57 --> 02:24:59
			is mentioned elsewhere in the Quran.
		
02:24:59 --> 02:25:01
			Presumably, the curtain that Mary was working on,
		
02:25:01 --> 02:25:03
			she would also sort of use as a
		
02:25:03 --> 02:25:05
			hijab or barrier when she wanted privacy.
		
02:25:06 --> 02:25:07
			The Quran tells us explicitly
		
02:25:08 --> 02:25:10
			that a priest named Zechariah was her caretaker
		
02:25:10 --> 02:25:12
			during this time. The proto gospel of James
		
02:25:12 --> 02:25:15
			implies that it was Zechariah as well from
		
02:25:15 --> 02:25:16
			age 3 to 12.
		
02:25:17 --> 02:25:19
			The proto gospel of James continues.
		
02:25:19 --> 02:25:21
			It says, when Mary turned 12,
		
02:25:22 --> 02:25:24
			she needed to leave the temple because she
		
02:25:24 --> 02:25:26
			could start her cycle at any time and
		
02:25:26 --> 02:25:27
			thus defile
		
02:25:28 --> 02:25:30
			the sanctuary, the mehreah. So Zechariah,
		
02:25:31 --> 02:25:32
			gathered a group of widowers
		
02:25:33 --> 02:25:34
			and was told by an angel according to
		
02:25:34 --> 02:25:37
			the proto gospel of James that they should
		
02:25:37 --> 02:25:39
			cast rods and that Mary, would become the
		
02:25:39 --> 02:25:41
			wife of the one to whom the Lord
		
02:25:41 --> 02:25:42
			God would give a sign and that man
		
02:25:42 --> 02:25:43
			was Joseph.
		
02:25:44 --> 02:25:46
			So here here's the historical question. Would the
		
02:25:46 --> 02:25:50
			priests engage in something like this? Right? That's
		
02:25:50 --> 02:25:52
			the question. Not did an angel actually order
		
02:25:52 --> 02:25:54
			this? The latter cannot be known through modern
		
02:25:54 --> 02:25:57
			historiography. And so historians, they don't touch it.
		
02:25:57 --> 02:25:59
			They don't touch the supernatural. They're naturalists. The
		
02:25:59 --> 02:26:01
			historical question is, is it plausible that the
		
02:26:01 --> 02:26:03
			priest cast lots?
		
02:26:03 --> 02:26:05
			And the answer is yes. In fact, casting
		
02:26:05 --> 02:26:06
			lots
		
02:26:06 --> 02:26:07
			was a common method
		
02:26:08 --> 02:26:10
			for determining the will of God. The assignment
		
02:26:10 --> 02:26:13
			of temple duties to be performed by priestly
		
02:26:13 --> 02:26:16
			families was determined by lot. This is mentioned
		
02:26:16 --> 02:26:18
			several times in 1st Chronicles and in Leviticus.
		
02:26:19 --> 02:26:21
			In fact, according to the book of Acts,
		
02:26:22 --> 02:26:24
			the apostles appointed 2 men to take the
		
02:26:24 --> 02:26:25
			place of Judas,
		
02:26:25 --> 02:26:28
			Justice and Matthias. So Acts 126.
		
02:26:29 --> 02:26:31
			It says, They cast lots and the lot
		
02:26:31 --> 02:26:33
			fell to Matthias. So he was added to
		
02:26:33 --> 02:26:34
			to the 11 apostles.
		
02:26:35 --> 02:26:37
			Furthermore, Luke says in 1:9 about Zacharias,
		
02:26:38 --> 02:26:40
			according to the custom of the priesthood, he
		
02:26:40 --> 02:26:41
			was chosen by lot
		
02:26:42 --> 02:26:43
			to enter the temple of the Lord to
		
02:26:43 --> 02:26:44
			burn incense.
		
02:26:45 --> 02:26:47
			So the priest casting lots to determine the
		
02:26:48 --> 02:26:49
			guardianship of Mary
		
02:26:49 --> 02:26:50
			is very plausible.
		
02:26:51 --> 02:26:53
			Now when the angel gave Mary the news
		
02:26:53 --> 02:26:54
			of her son,
		
02:26:54 --> 02:26:57
			the proto gospel of James basically quotes the
		
02:26:57 --> 02:27:00
			response of the angel in Luke. The power
		
02:27:00 --> 02:27:01
			of God will overshadow you.
		
02:27:02 --> 02:27:04
			Therefore, the one born shall be called the
		
02:27:04 --> 02:27:05
			son of the highest.
		
02:27:05 --> 02:27:07
			So again, we have this Greek idea of
		
02:27:07 --> 02:27:10
			a half divine, half mortal demigod.
		
02:27:10 --> 02:27:13
			Historically, this is not what the first Christians
		
02:27:13 --> 02:27:16
			who told this story likely would have
		
02:27:16 --> 02:27:19
			said. Okay, the first Christians, quote unquote Christians,
		
02:27:19 --> 02:27:22
			were Palestinian Jews, the Jamesonian Nazarenes,
		
02:27:22 --> 02:27:24
			the Nutsareem under Ya'akov,
		
02:27:25 --> 02:27:27
			probably did not tell the story like that.
		
02:27:27 --> 02:27:27
			More plausibly,
		
02:27:28 --> 02:27:30
			they said something like what the Quran says.
		
02:27:30 --> 02:27:33
			Even so, God creates whatever He wills. Whenever
		
02:27:33 --> 02:27:36
			He decrees a matter, He only says to
		
02:27:36 --> 02:27:38
			it be and it is. Or in Surah
		
02:27:38 --> 02:27:39
			Maryam,
		
02:27:43 --> 02:27:45
			Thus, it will be, your Lord says,
		
02:27:46 --> 02:27:48
			it is easy for me. This is a
		
02:27:48 --> 02:27:52
			much more Jewish response and thus more contextually
		
02:27:52 --> 02:27:52
			coherent.
		
02:27:53 --> 02:27:53
			Again,
		
02:27:54 --> 02:27:56
			like when Sarah was told of the birth
		
02:27:56 --> 02:27:56
			of Isaac
		
02:27:57 --> 02:28:00
			in Genesis 18, the angel said, is anything,
		
02:28:00 --> 02:28:01
			any davar, any affair
		
02:28:02 --> 02:28:03
			too hard for the Lord? In other words,
		
02:28:03 --> 02:28:06
			hu alayayayin, it is easy for me.
		
02:28:07 --> 02:28:09
			So did the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon
		
02:28:09 --> 02:28:12
			him, plagiarize the quoted gospel of James? No.
		
02:28:12 --> 02:28:14
			The Quran's engagement with the Christian traditions
		
02:28:15 --> 02:28:17
			recorded in the text of the proto gospel
		
02:28:17 --> 02:28:20
			of James is similar to its engagement
		
02:28:20 --> 02:28:23
			with the traditions found in the canonical gospels.
		
02:28:23 --> 02:28:24
			It is confessing,
		
02:28:25 --> 02:28:25
			revising,
		
02:28:26 --> 02:28:26
			and rejecting.
		
02:28:29 --> 02:28:31
			Let's move to the proto gospel sorry, the
		
02:28:31 --> 02:28:32
			gospel of pseudo Matthew.
		
02:28:32 --> 02:28:35
			So here's a passage from chapter 20
		
02:28:35 --> 02:28:37
			of pseudo Matthew. I'll read this quickly. And
		
02:28:37 --> 02:28:38
			it came to pass on the 3rd day
		
02:28:38 --> 02:28:40
			of their journey when they were walking that
		
02:28:40 --> 02:28:42
			the blessed Mary was fatigued by the excessive
		
02:28:42 --> 02:28:44
			heat of the sun in the desert. And
		
02:28:44 --> 02:28:46
			seeing a palm tree, she said to Joseph,
		
02:28:46 --> 02:28:47
			let me rest under let me rest a
		
02:28:47 --> 02:28:49
			little under the shade of this tree. Therefore,
		
02:28:49 --> 02:28:51
			Joseph made haste
		
02:28:51 --> 02:28:53
			and let and let her to the palm
		
02:28:53 --> 02:28:54
			and made her come down from her beast.
		
02:28:55 --> 02:28:57
			And as the blessed Mary was sitting there,
		
02:28:57 --> 02:28:58
			she looked up to to the foliage of
		
02:28:58 --> 02:29:00
			the palm and saw it full of fruit
		
02:29:00 --> 02:29:01
			and said to Joseph,
		
02:29:02 --> 02:29:03
			I wish it were possible to get some
		
02:29:03 --> 02:29:05
			of the fruit of this palm. Then the
		
02:29:05 --> 02:29:07
			child Jesus with a a joyful countenance, reposing
		
02:29:07 --> 02:29:09
			in the bosom of his mother, said to
		
02:29:09 --> 02:29:11
			the palm, oh, tree, bend your branches and
		
02:29:11 --> 02:29:13
			refresh my mother with your fruits. And immediately
		
02:29:13 --> 02:29:15
			at these words, the palm bent its top
		
02:29:15 --> 02:29:17
			down to the very blessed feet of the
		
02:29:17 --> 02:29:19
			blessed Mary. To the very feet of blessed
		
02:29:19 --> 02:29:22
			Mary. And they gathered from it fruit with
		
02:29:22 --> 02:29:23
			which they were all refreshed.
		
02:29:24 --> 02:29:25
			Then Jesus said to it, raise yourself, oh,
		
02:29:25 --> 02:29:27
			palm tree and be strong and be
		
02:29:28 --> 02:29:30
			and be the companion of my trees, which
		
02:29:30 --> 02:29:32
			are in the paradise of my father and
		
02:29:32 --> 02:29:34
			open from your roots a vein of water,
		
02:29:34 --> 02:29:35
			which has been hid in the earth and
		
02:29:35 --> 02:29:37
			let the waters flow so that we may
		
02:29:37 --> 02:29:39
			be satisfied from you. And it rose up
		
02:29:39 --> 02:29:42
			immediately and its root there began to come
		
02:29:42 --> 02:29:43
			forth a spring,
		
02:29:44 --> 02:29:46
			and at its root, there began to come
		
02:29:46 --> 02:29:48
			forth a spring of water exceedingly clear and
		
02:29:48 --> 02:29:49
			cool and sparkling.
		
02:29:50 --> 02:29:52
			So we have Mary sitting under a palm
		
02:29:52 --> 02:29:55
			tree, eating from its fruit and hearing the
		
02:29:55 --> 02:29:57
			voice of Jesus who spoke to her as
		
02:29:57 --> 02:29:59
			a very young child. She then refreshed herself
		
02:29:59 --> 02:30:01
			with the waters of the spring that came
		
02:30:01 --> 02:30:02
			up from the earth.
		
02:30:03 --> 02:30:06
			Okay? Now in surah 19 of the Quran,
		
02:30:06 --> 02:30:09
			we are told that the pain of childbirth
		
02:30:09 --> 02:30:11
			drove Mary to the trunk of a palm
		
02:30:11 --> 02:30:13
			tree. She hears a voice that tells her
		
02:30:13 --> 02:30:15
			not to grieve and to shake the trunk
		
02:30:15 --> 02:30:17
			of the tree for dates to fall and
		
02:30:17 --> 02:30:20
			to drink from a spring beneath her. The
		
02:30:20 --> 02:30:22
			speaker is not identified. But some mufasidin, some
		
02:30:22 --> 02:30:24
			exegetes, maintain
		
02:30:24 --> 02:30:26
			that it is the newborn Jesus who is
		
02:30:26 --> 02:30:27
			speaking to her. Others say it's an angel.
		
02:30:28 --> 02:30:31
			So there are similarities, but also differences. So
		
02:30:31 --> 02:30:34
			in pseudo Matthew, Jesus was already born. It
		
02:30:34 --> 02:30:35
			wasn't the pains of childbirth that drove Mary
		
02:30:35 --> 02:30:38
			under the tree, but rather fatigue from the
		
02:30:38 --> 02:30:40
			sun's heat. So Jesus was already born in
		
02:30:40 --> 02:30:41
			pseudo Matthew.
		
02:30:41 --> 02:30:43
			Joseph is not mentioned anywhere in the Quranic
		
02:30:43 --> 02:30:46
			narrative. In pseudo Matthew, the young Jesus orders
		
02:30:46 --> 02:30:47
			the tree to bend its branches while in
		
02:30:47 --> 02:30:48
			the Quran,
		
02:30:49 --> 02:30:51
			Jesus, if it is Jesus, told Mary to
		
02:30:51 --> 02:30:53
			shake the trunk and let the dates fall.
		
02:30:53 --> 02:30:54
			And then, of course, Jesus refers to God
		
02:30:54 --> 02:30:57
			as his father in pseudo Matthew, which we
		
02:30:57 --> 02:30:59
			never get in the Quran. Of course, by
		
02:30:59 --> 02:31:01
			father here, the author intends an orthodox Christian
		
02:31:01 --> 02:31:03
			understanding of the term.
		
02:31:05 --> 02:31:06
			Now Bart Ehrman and Slade Coppellisi
		
02:31:07 --> 02:31:08
			cowrote
		
02:31:08 --> 02:31:11
			a book called The Apocryphal Gospels.
		
02:31:11 --> 02:31:13
			Okay? And in this book, they say that
		
02:31:13 --> 02:31:14
			the earliest surviving
		
02:31:15 --> 02:31:17
			manuscript of pseudo Matthew are dated to the
		
02:31:17 --> 02:31:19
			early 9th century.
		
02:31:20 --> 02:31:21
			Some say 11th century.
		
02:31:22 --> 02:31:24
			When was Surah 19 of the Quran composed?
		
02:31:25 --> 02:31:27
			No later than 6 22 CE.
		
02:31:28 --> 02:31:30
			It's a Meccan Sura according to everybody, and
		
02:31:30 --> 02:31:33
			this is indisputable. The Birmingham manuscript contains sort
		
02:31:33 --> 02:31:36
			of 19. Okay? So historians date the original
		
02:31:36 --> 02:31:36
			composition
		
02:31:37 --> 02:31:39
			of pseudo Matthew to either the 8th or
		
02:31:39 --> 02:31:40
			9th centuries.
		
02:31:41 --> 02:31:43
			But according to some, it could have been
		
02:31:43 --> 02:31:45
			written early even as early as the mid
		
02:31:45 --> 02:31:46
			7th
		
02:31:46 --> 02:31:47
			century at the
		
02:31:48 --> 02:31:50
			earliest. So around 650 CE,
		
02:31:50 --> 02:31:53
			Terminus post quen. But this is just conjecture.
		
02:31:54 --> 02:31:55
			So, I mean, it seems to me that
		
02:31:55 --> 02:31:57
			there there are some historians
		
02:31:57 --> 02:31:59
			who really want this to be the source
		
02:31:59 --> 02:32:00
			of the Quran.
		
02:32:00 --> 02:32:02
			Okay? Most likely, pseudo Matthew
		
02:32:02 --> 02:32:05
			is an 8th century document. But even if
		
02:32:05 --> 02:32:07
			we humor 650 CE,
		
02:32:08 --> 02:32:11
			okay, that's 30 years after the story shows
		
02:32:11 --> 02:32:12
			up in the Quran.
		
02:32:12 --> 02:32:15
			And where was Islam in 650 CE?
		
02:32:15 --> 02:32:18
			Remember the famous Uthmanic codex committee was held
		
02:32:18 --> 02:32:19
			between 645
		
02:32:20 --> 02:32:21
			and 650 in Medina.
		
02:32:21 --> 02:32:23
			By 650, all of Arabia,
		
02:32:24 --> 02:32:24
			Yemen,
		
02:32:25 --> 02:32:27
			and the areas that would become Iran, Iraq,
		
02:32:27 --> 02:32:29
			Syria, Palestine, and parts of Egypt are Muslim.
		
02:32:30 --> 02:32:32
			Millions of Christians from all over these places
		
02:32:32 --> 02:32:33
			were hearing the Quran
		
02:32:33 --> 02:32:35
			for the first time. So it seems to
		
02:32:35 --> 02:32:38
			me that pseudo Matthew is a response to
		
02:32:38 --> 02:32:39
			and critical rewriting
		
02:32:39 --> 02:32:41
			of the Quranic narrative
		
02:32:41 --> 02:32:44
			rather than the other way around. It seems
		
02:32:44 --> 02:32:46
			to me and it's very plausible that the
		
02:32:46 --> 02:32:49
			author of Pseudo Matthew wants to convert Muslims
		
02:32:49 --> 02:32:51
			through the Quran's method of storytelling.
		
02:32:52 --> 02:32:55
			That is through confirmation, correction and rejection. In
		
02:32:55 --> 02:32:57
			other words, Pseudo Matthew is a Christian counter
		
02:32:57 --> 02:32:58
			narrative
		
02:32:58 --> 02:33:00
			to the Quran. The author of Pseudomathew was
		
02:33:00 --> 02:33:02
			trying to beat the Quran at its own
		
02:33:02 --> 02:33:03
			game.
		
02:33:03 --> 02:33:04
			Okay,
		
02:33:04 --> 02:33:06
			so here again, the Quran is not directly
		
02:33:06 --> 02:33:08
			dependent on Pseudomathew.
		
02:33:09 --> 02:33:11
			So where did the Quran get this information
		
02:33:11 --> 02:33:14
			from? Well historically one option is the prophet
		
02:33:14 --> 02:33:15
			made it up,
		
02:33:16 --> 02:33:18
			which does not fit his personality at all.
		
02:33:18 --> 02:33:20
			The prophet was known by the Arabs before
		
02:33:20 --> 02:33:21
			his claim of revelation
		
02:33:22 --> 02:33:24
			as being the most truthful and trustworthy of
		
02:33:24 --> 02:33:26
			all men. They called them Asadih ul Amin.
		
02:33:26 --> 02:33:29
			The Quran makes appeals to the prophet's
		
02:33:29 --> 02:33:31
			reputation among his people. That he was not
		
02:33:31 --> 02:33:33
			a poet, he was not a soothsayer or
		
02:33:33 --> 02:33:34
			insane or a liar.
		
02:33:34 --> 02:33:37
			Option number 2, the prophet heard certain oral
		
02:33:37 --> 02:33:38
			traditions about Mary and Jesus.
		
02:33:39 --> 02:33:41
			Kinda broadly speaking, Mary sitting under a tree,
		
02:33:41 --> 02:33:42
			Jesus
		
02:33:43 --> 02:33:45
			talking to her, Mary eating food and drinking
		
02:33:45 --> 02:33:48
			from a spring, and incorporated them into the
		
02:33:49 --> 02:33:51
			either way, he was not directly dependent upon
		
02:33:51 --> 02:33:53
			pseudo Matthew. Personally, I think the prophet received
		
02:33:53 --> 02:33:55
			these narrations from an angel.
		
02:33:56 --> 02:33:58
			This is a non historical claim according to
		
02:33:58 --> 02:34:00
			the modern secular naturalistic
		
02:34:01 --> 02:34:02
			paradigm, but I'm fine with that. I'm not
		
02:34:02 --> 02:34:03
			a strict naturalist.
		
02:34:03 --> 02:34:05
			I have confidence and trust in the claims
		
02:34:05 --> 02:34:07
			of the prophet because I have good reasons.
		
02:34:08 --> 02:34:10
			I have confidence and trust in him.
		
02:34:10 --> 02:34:12
			You know, I believe in him for good
		
02:34:12 --> 02:34:12
			reasons.
		
02:34:13 --> 02:34:15
			So let me give you another analogy. I'll
		
02:34:15 --> 02:34:17
			use the I'll use the Michael Jordan analogy
		
02:34:17 --> 02:34:19
			again. So imagine somebody said,
		
02:34:20 --> 02:34:22
			you you know, I always thought that, Wilt
		
02:34:22 --> 02:34:25
			Wilt Chamberlain was the greatest player of all
		
02:34:25 --> 02:34:28
			time. But when I saw what Jordan did
		
02:34:28 --> 02:34:29
			in his career,
		
02:34:30 --> 02:34:32
			he made a believer out of me.
		
02:34:32 --> 02:34:34
			He made a believer out of me. So
		
02:34:34 --> 02:34:36
			what is this person saying? Is he saying
		
02:34:36 --> 02:34:38
			that he changed his mind and now believes
		
02:34:38 --> 02:34:39
			something for no reason
		
02:34:40 --> 02:34:41
			because he uses the word belief?
		
02:34:42 --> 02:34:44
			No. He has reasons for his belief and
		
02:34:44 --> 02:34:46
			he can articulate them. Right? So we have
		
02:34:46 --> 02:34:48
			reasons why we trust
		
02:34:48 --> 02:34:51
			the prophet, reasons for our belief. But belief
		
02:34:51 --> 02:34:53
			doesn't mean believing without reason. There are other
		
02:34:53 --> 02:34:54
			reasons why we believe.
		
02:34:55 --> 02:34:55
			Okay?
		
02:34:56 --> 02:34:59
			Again, if if if the Quran happens to
		
02:34:59 --> 02:35:00
			say something that seems to have no precedent,
		
02:35:01 --> 02:35:03
			the atheist and many Christian polemicists, they say,
		
02:35:03 --> 02:35:05
			oh, Mohammed just made that up. But if
		
02:35:05 --> 02:35:07
			the Quran confirms the story or revise as
		
02:35:07 --> 02:35:08
			a tradition
		
02:35:09 --> 02:35:10
			that was known before the prophet, they say
		
02:35:10 --> 02:35:11
			Muhammad was a plagiarist.
		
02:35:12 --> 02:35:15
			Right? See, they're being intellectually dishonest. But here's
		
02:35:15 --> 02:35:17
			the bottom line. Does it stand to reason?
		
02:35:17 --> 02:35:19
			Does it make sense that the prophet plagiarized
		
02:35:19 --> 02:35:22
			this apocryphal gospel? No. This is not what
		
02:35:22 --> 02:35:24
			the evidence suggests at all.
		
02:35:26 --> 02:35:28
			Here's another example. This is also from pseudo
		
02:35:28 --> 02:35:28
			Matthew.
		
02:35:29 --> 02:35:31
			It's in chapter 9 of pseudo Matthew. This
		
02:35:31 --> 02:35:32
			is what it says. While she was working
		
02:35:32 --> 02:35:34
			on the purple with her fingers, So this
		
02:35:34 --> 02:35:36
			is Mary working in the temple, weaving the
		
02:35:36 --> 02:35:38
			curtain with with the color purple, which is
		
02:35:38 --> 02:35:40
			the color worn by kings. While she was
		
02:35:40 --> 02:35:42
			working on the purple with her fingers, there
		
02:35:42 --> 02:35:44
			entered a young man of ineffable beauty. And
		
02:35:44 --> 02:35:47
			when Mary saw him, she exceedingly feared and
		
02:35:47 --> 02:35:47
			trembled.
		
02:35:48 --> 02:35:49
			And the man who was really an angel
		
02:35:49 --> 02:35:51
			says, fear not, he shall bring forth a
		
02:35:51 --> 02:35:54
			king who fills not only the earth, but
		
02:35:54 --> 02:35:56
			the heaven and who reigns from generation to
		
02:35:56 --> 02:35:56
			generation.
		
02:35:57 --> 02:35:59
			Okay? So here again, the author of pseudo
		
02:35:59 --> 02:35:59
			Matthew
		
02:36:01 --> 02:36:03
			constructed a Christian counter narrative
		
02:36:03 --> 02:36:05
			to the Quranic story. So the Quran says
		
02:36:10 --> 02:36:12
			And remember in the scripture, Mary, when she
		
02:36:12 --> 02:36:15
			secluded herself from her people in an eastern
		
02:36:15 --> 02:36:17
			location, so presumably in the temple.
		
02:36:23 --> 02:36:25
			Screening herself from them.
		
02:36:25 --> 02:36:27
			Then we sent to her our angel appearing
		
02:36:27 --> 02:36:29
			before her as a man perfectly formed.
		
02:36:33 --> 02:36:35
			She appealed, I truly seek refuge in the
		
02:36:35 --> 02:36:38
			most compassionate from you. So leave me alone
		
02:36:38 --> 02:36:39
			if you are God fearing.
		
02:36:44 --> 02:36:46
			He responded, I'm only the messenger from your
		
02:36:46 --> 02:36:47
			Lord sent to bless you with a pure
		
02:36:47 --> 02:36:48
			son.
		
02:36:53 --> 02:36:54
			She said, how can I have a son
		
02:36:54 --> 02:36:56
			when no man has ever touched me, nor
		
02:36:56 --> 02:36:57
			nor am I unchaste?
		
02:37:06 --> 02:37:08
			He said, thus said your Lord, it is
		
02:37:08 --> 02:37:10
			easy for me and we will make Him
		
02:37:10 --> 02:37:11
			a sign for humanity
		
02:37:11 --> 02:37:14
			and a mercy from us. It has
		
02:37:15 --> 02:37:16
			been a matter already decreed.
		
02:37:17 --> 02:37:19
			A word, a davar, a khrima, a kalima,
		
02:37:19 --> 02:37:19
			a kalima.
		
02:37:21 --> 02:37:24
			So the author, pseudo Matthew, right, did not
		
02:37:24 --> 02:37:26
			like the Quran's low Christology here.
		
02:37:27 --> 02:37:28
			Jesus is pure,
		
02:37:29 --> 02:37:30
			a sign for humanity.
		
02:37:30 --> 02:37:33
			A mercy, that's it? That's not enough. No.
		
02:37:33 --> 02:37:35
			He is a king. But not just any
		
02:37:35 --> 02:37:36
			king, a king who rules the heaven and
		
02:37:36 --> 02:37:38
			earth for all time. In other words, he's
		
02:37:38 --> 02:37:38
			God.
		
02:37:39 --> 02:37:41
			So here I'll repeat, I'll somewhat repeat what
		
02:37:41 --> 02:37:43
			I said about the proto gospel of James.
		
02:37:43 --> 02:37:46
			Historically, this is not what the first Christians
		
02:37:46 --> 02:37:48
			likely would have said about Jesus.
		
02:37:49 --> 02:37:51
			The first Christians who were Palestinian Jews, the
		
02:37:51 --> 02:37:51
			Jamesonians,
		
02:37:51 --> 02:37:53
			Nazarenes, the Nutsunim,
		
02:37:53 --> 02:37:56
			most probably did not believe that Jesus was
		
02:37:56 --> 02:37:59
			God. More plausibly, they said something like what
		
02:37:59 --> 02:38:01
			the Quran says, That Jesus was pure, a
		
02:38:01 --> 02:38:02
			sign for humanity,
		
02:38:03 --> 02:38:06
			a manifestation of God's mercy. The Quran's Christology
		
02:38:06 --> 02:38:08
			here is much more contextually coherent.
		
02:38:10 --> 02:38:12
			The last thing I'll say about pseudo Matthew,
		
02:38:12 --> 02:38:13
			and just as we saw with the proto
		
02:38:13 --> 02:38:15
			gospel of James, miracles aside,
		
02:38:16 --> 02:38:19
			the Quran seems to avoid the historical implausibilities
		
02:38:19 --> 02:38:21
			of the Christian narratives found specifically
		
02:38:22 --> 02:38:23
			in pseudo Matthew.
		
02:38:23 --> 02:38:25
			Pseudo Matthew mentions the Lucan census in chapter
		
02:38:25 --> 02:38:26
			13.
		
02:38:27 --> 02:38:29
			Pseudo Matthew says that there was quote, an
		
02:38:29 --> 02:38:31
			edict of Caesar Augustus, that all the world
		
02:38:31 --> 02:38:32
			was to be enrolled.
		
02:38:33 --> 02:38:35
			Such an edict most likely did not happen.
		
02:38:35 --> 02:38:36
			There's no mention of this in the Quran.
		
02:38:37 --> 02:38:39
			Here's another thing. The story in chapter 20
		
02:38:39 --> 02:38:41
			of Surah Matthew, of Mary resting under the
		
02:38:41 --> 02:38:44
			palm tree, according to pseudo Matthew. This took
		
02:38:44 --> 02:38:46
			place while Mary and Jesus were traveling in
		
02:38:46 --> 02:38:48
			the desert to Egypt.
		
02:38:49 --> 02:38:50
			Why? Why were they going to Egypt? Well,
		
02:38:50 --> 02:38:52
			according to the book of Matthew, chapter 17,
		
02:38:52 --> 02:38:54
			it was because Herod spoke to the Magi
		
02:38:54 --> 02:38:56
			who somehow followed a star into Judea.
		
02:38:57 --> 02:38:59
			And Herod became angry. So he ordered all
		
02:38:59 --> 02:39:00
			of the boys of Bethlehem slaughtered
		
02:39:01 --> 02:39:03
			who are 2 years old or younger.
		
02:39:03 --> 02:39:05
			So the former, Christians can argue, was a
		
02:39:05 --> 02:39:07
			miracle how the magi followed a star. Okay,
		
02:39:07 --> 02:39:09
			fine. It's a miracle. So it's non historical.
		
02:39:10 --> 02:39:10
			But
		
02:39:11 --> 02:39:14
			the latter event is a naturalistic historical claim
		
02:39:14 --> 02:39:15
			and there's no evidence of this happening.
		
02:39:16 --> 02:39:18
			And maybe it happened, but historically, it's highly
		
02:39:18 --> 02:39:18
			unlikely.
		
02:39:20 --> 02:39:22
			Interestingly, in the Quran, Mary sits under the
		
02:39:22 --> 02:39:23
			palm tree to give birth.
		
02:39:24 --> 02:39:26
			Right? Everyone other than a few mythicists agree
		
02:39:26 --> 02:39:28
			that Jesus was born in Palestine.
		
02:39:28 --> 02:39:30
			But very few historians maintain that Jesus traveled
		
02:39:30 --> 02:39:33
			to Egypt because Herod was committing genocide
		
02:39:33 --> 02:39:36
			against male infants and toddlers in Bethlehem.
		
02:39:36 --> 02:39:38
			So here's what I think happened. The author
		
02:39:38 --> 02:39:41
			of pseudo Matthew, wanting to theologically rewrite the
		
02:39:41 --> 02:39:42
			Qur'anic story,
		
02:39:43 --> 02:39:45
			could not agree with the Quran, however, that
		
02:39:45 --> 02:39:48
			Jesus was born under a palm tree.
		
02:39:49 --> 02:39:50
			Why? Because Matthew and Luke said that he
		
02:39:50 --> 02:39:52
			was born in a manger and in a
		
02:39:52 --> 02:39:52
			cave, respectively.
		
02:39:53 --> 02:39:55
			He doesn't wanna contradict Matthew and Luke. So
		
02:39:55 --> 02:39:58
			pseudo Matthew moves the story to the desert
		
02:39:58 --> 02:40:00
			while Mary and an infant Jesus were traveling
		
02:40:00 --> 02:40:03
			to Egypt. But unfortunately, for pseudo Matthew, that
		
02:40:03 --> 02:40:05
			entire context is highly implausible.
		
02:40:05 --> 02:40:08
			Also, Jesus is called the divine son of
		
02:40:08 --> 02:40:10
			God and savior of the world by pseudo
		
02:40:10 --> 02:40:13
			Matthew. Two titles of Jesus that Jesus himself,
		
02:40:14 --> 02:40:17
			a rabbi and Torah observant Jew, would likely
		
02:40:17 --> 02:40:19
			have repudiated in the strongest of terms.
		
02:40:20 --> 02:40:22
			In other words, these titles don't make sense
		
02:40:22 --> 02:40:22
			historically.
		
02:40:23 --> 02:40:25
			So historians tell us that Jesus of Nazareth
		
02:40:25 --> 02:40:27
			most likely claimed to be a servant of
		
02:40:27 --> 02:40:27
			God
		
02:40:28 --> 02:40:31
			and a prophet. The Quran quotes Jesus, Ini
		
02:40:31 --> 02:40:31
			Abdullaaatani
		
02:40:32 --> 02:40:35
			al kitaba wajalani nabiya. I am the servant
		
02:40:35 --> 02:40:37
			of God. He gave me scripture and made
		
02:40:37 --> 02:40:38
			me a a prophet.
		
02:40:40 --> 02:40:42
			Now, let's move to the infancy gospel of
		
02:40:42 --> 02:40:43
			Thomas.
		
02:40:44 --> 02:40:46
			Here we have a passage from the infancy
		
02:40:46 --> 02:40:46
			gospel of Thomas.
		
02:40:47 --> 02:40:49
			This is in chapter 2, verses 1 to
		
02:40:49 --> 02:40:51
			4. When the child Jesus was 5 years
		
02:40:51 --> 02:40:53
			old, he then made some soft mud and
		
02:40:53 --> 02:40:55
			fashioned 12 sparrows.
		
02:40:55 --> 02:40:57
			It was a Sabbath when he did this.
		
02:40:57 --> 02:40:59
			When certain Jews saw what Jesus had done
		
02:40:59 --> 02:41:00
			while playing on the Sabbath,
		
02:41:01 --> 02:41:03
			he left right away and reported to his
		
02:41:03 --> 02:41:03
			father, Joseph.
		
02:41:04 --> 02:41:05
			When Joseph came to the place and saw
		
02:41:05 --> 02:41:07
			what had happened, he cried out to him,
		
02:41:08 --> 02:41:10
			why are you doing what is forbidden on
		
02:41:10 --> 02:41:12
			the Sabbath? But Jesus clapped His hands and
		
02:41:12 --> 02:41:13
			cried to the sparrows, be gone. And the
		
02:41:13 --> 02:41:16
			sparrows took flight and went off chirping. So
		
02:41:16 --> 02:41:16
			here's the Quran,
		
02:41:25 --> 02:41:26
			I have come to you with a sign
		
02:41:26 --> 02:41:28
			from your Lord. I make for you a
		
02:41:28 --> 02:41:30
			bird from a breathe into it and it
		
02:41:30 --> 02:41:32
			become a real bird by God's leaf.
		
02:41:33 --> 02:41:35
			In the Quran, no age of Jesus is
		
02:41:35 --> 02:41:38
			given and there is nothing about the Sabbath
		
02:41:38 --> 02:41:38
			or Joseph.
		
02:41:39 --> 02:41:39
			So
		
02:41:40 --> 02:41:42
			the claim here is that the prophet lifted
		
02:41:42 --> 02:41:44
			the story from the infancy gospel of Thomas.
		
02:41:44 --> 02:41:46
			So just some quick background.
		
02:41:47 --> 02:41:48
			The Infancy Gospel of Thomas
		
02:41:49 --> 02:41:50
			was one of the earliest so called Infancy
		
02:41:50 --> 02:41:51
			Gospels.
		
02:41:52 --> 02:41:53
			It was written in the first half of
		
02:41:53 --> 02:41:55
			the second century, not long after the composition
		
02:41:55 --> 02:41:57
			of the gospel of John and the
		
02:41:57 --> 02:41:59
			book of Acts, despite its attribution to Thomas
		
02:41:59 --> 02:42:02
			the Israelite, the gospel was definitely not written
		
02:42:02 --> 02:42:04
			by Thomas. The gospel is pseudepigraphal.
		
02:42:04 --> 02:42:07
			Now the Christian polemic's claim is not only
		
02:42:07 --> 02:42:08
			did the prophet plagiarize
		
02:42:09 --> 02:42:12
			the story of sparrows from the gospel, The
		
02:42:12 --> 02:42:13
			prophet didn't realize
		
02:42:13 --> 02:42:15
			that this gospel was written as fiction.
		
02:42:15 --> 02:42:18
			That this gospel was intended for entertainment purposes
		
02:42:18 --> 02:42:19
			only.
		
02:42:19 --> 02:42:20
			It's just satire.
		
02:42:21 --> 02:42:24
			Right? Why do these polemicists say this? Well,
		
02:42:24 --> 02:42:25
			because when we read, when we keep reading
		
02:42:25 --> 02:42:27
			the Infancy Gospel of Thomas,
		
02:42:27 --> 02:42:30
			Jesus as a youth goes around killing children
		
02:42:30 --> 02:42:33
			and his adult teachers, but also resurrects them
		
02:42:33 --> 02:42:33
			in some cases.
		
02:42:34 --> 02:42:36
			So many Christians conclude that the author intended
		
02:42:36 --> 02:42:38
			this gospel to be basically
		
02:42:38 --> 02:42:39
			fan fiction,
		
02:42:40 --> 02:42:42
			a humorous account of the lost years of
		
02:42:42 --> 02:42:43
			Jesus,
		
02:42:43 --> 02:42:45
			God as a child. And a made up
		
02:42:45 --> 02:42:47
			story from this gospel ended up in the
		
02:42:47 --> 02:42:48
			Quran.
		
02:42:49 --> 02:42:52
			So the first, problem for the Christian
		
02:42:53 --> 02:42:55
			is their assumption that the Infancy Gospel of
		
02:42:55 --> 02:42:56
			Thomas
		
02:42:57 --> 02:42:59
			was meant to be satire?
		
02:42:59 --> 02:43:01
			Now clearly the author of the Infancy Gospel
		
02:43:01 --> 02:43:03
			of Thomas, we'll just call him Pseudo Thomas.
		
02:43:04 --> 02:43:06
			Pseudo Thomas believes that Jesus is God. So
		
02:43:06 --> 02:43:08
			this is clear. The gospel ends by saying
		
02:43:09 --> 02:43:11
			to him, Jesus, be the glory forever and
		
02:43:11 --> 02:43:12
			ever.
		
02:43:12 --> 02:43:14
			I don't suspect that the author of this
		
02:43:14 --> 02:43:17
			gospel is making fun of his God when
		
02:43:17 --> 02:43:19
			the latter was a child. This is not
		
02:43:19 --> 02:43:19
			satire.
		
02:43:20 --> 02:43:21
			According to doctor Chris Frulingos,
		
02:43:22 --> 02:43:23
			who's a scholar of,
		
02:43:24 --> 02:43:25
			of ancient, Christianity,
		
02:43:27 --> 02:43:30
			Pseudo Thomas is actually making a point that
		
02:43:30 --> 02:43:33
			Jesus, even as a child, possesses knowledge
		
02:43:33 --> 02:43:35
			that no one can even begin to comprehend.
		
02:43:36 --> 02:43:39
			As a divine being, Jesus' actions are in
		
02:43:39 --> 02:43:40
			reality beyond our understandings.
		
02:43:41 --> 02:43:43
			Jesus had esoteric knowledge that even his teachers
		
02:43:43 --> 02:43:45
			lacked. This is a theme that's also found
		
02:43:45 --> 02:43:47
			in the gospel of John. This is not
		
02:43:47 --> 02:43:50
			a new idea. Nicodemus, an an old Pharisee
		
02:43:51 --> 02:43:52
			in John 3, is censured
		
02:43:53 --> 02:43:53
			by a comparatively
		
02:43:54 --> 02:43:57
			young Jesus for being a teacher in Israel
		
02:43:57 --> 02:43:59
			and yet not understanding what it means to
		
02:43:59 --> 02:44:00
			be born of the spirit.
		
02:44:01 --> 02:44:03
			Also in John, Jesus says, I am the
		
02:44:03 --> 02:44:05
			resurrection and the life. In the infinity gospel
		
02:44:05 --> 02:44:08
			of Thomas, as God, Jesus takes life and
		
02:44:08 --> 02:44:08
			gives it back.
		
02:44:09 --> 02:44:11
			He is the resurrection and the life. This
		
02:44:11 --> 02:44:13
			is the point that Pseudo Thomas is making.
		
02:44:13 --> 02:44:15
			Pseudo Thomas refers to the events in his
		
02:44:15 --> 02:44:17
			gospel as quote, the magnificent
		
02:44:17 --> 02:44:18
			childhood activities
		
02:44:19 --> 02:44:21
			of our Lord Jesus Christ. This isn't some
		
02:44:22 --> 02:44:24
			fan fiction comic book where the author and
		
02:44:24 --> 02:44:26
			his audience are laughing at their God.
		
02:44:27 --> 02:44:28
			A second major problem
		
02:44:29 --> 02:44:31
			for the Christian is their assumption that all
		
02:44:31 --> 02:44:33
			of its contents, all of the stories of
		
02:44:33 --> 02:44:35
			the infancy gospel of Thomas were intended to
		
02:44:35 --> 02:44:38
			be a fictional by its author. Now it's
		
02:44:38 --> 02:44:40
			true that according to the genre
		
02:44:40 --> 02:44:43
			of Greco Roman biographies and novels, the author
		
02:44:43 --> 02:44:45
			would invent stories as well as the dialogue.
		
02:44:45 --> 02:44:47
			And this also happens in the 4 canonical
		
02:44:47 --> 02:44:48
			gospels
		
02:44:49 --> 02:44:50
			and the book of Acts. I mean, we
		
02:44:50 --> 02:44:52
			talked about that in the last the last
		
02:44:52 --> 02:44:55
			podcast when we debunked the gospel passion narratives.
		
02:44:55 --> 02:44:57
			So there is fiction in the instant gospel
		
02:44:57 --> 02:44:59
			of Thomas. There's also fiction in Matthew, Mark,
		
02:44:59 --> 02:45:00
			Luke, John, and Acts.
		
02:45:01 --> 02:45:03
			However, we also know that there is some
		
02:45:03 --> 02:45:05
			historical truth in these gospels
		
02:45:05 --> 02:45:07
			in the sense that some of the purported
		
02:45:07 --> 02:45:10
			sayings or actions of Jesus in the gospels
		
02:45:10 --> 02:45:12
			likely go back to him and his immediate
		
02:45:12 --> 02:45:13
			disciples.
		
02:45:14 --> 02:45:15
			Now at the end of the Infancy Gospel
		
02:45:15 --> 02:45:18
			of Thomas chapter 19, Pseudo Thomas tells us
		
02:45:19 --> 02:45:21
			a story about Jesus. He says that when
		
02:45:21 --> 02:45:22
			Jesus was 12 years old, he and his
		
02:45:22 --> 02:45:25
			parents made a trip to Jerusalem to celebrate
		
02:45:25 --> 02:45:25
			Passover.
		
02:45:26 --> 02:45:29
			When they were returning to Galilee, his parents
		
02:45:29 --> 02:45:31
			thought that Jesus was in the caravan, but
		
02:45:31 --> 02:45:33
			he was actually sitting in the temple questioning
		
02:45:33 --> 02:45:35
			the elders and teachers, as well as explaining
		
02:45:35 --> 02:45:37
			the finer points of the law. When Mary
		
02:45:37 --> 02:45:39
			eventually finds him, Jesus says, don't you know
		
02:45:39 --> 02:45:41
			that I must be in my father's house?
		
02:45:42 --> 02:45:43
			Now I have a question for the Christian
		
02:45:43 --> 02:45:44
			polemicist.
		
02:45:44 --> 02:45:45
			Is this story fiction?
		
02:45:47 --> 02:45:49
			Of course, they will say no no no.
		
02:45:50 --> 02:45:53
			Why? Because that story is in the gospel
		
02:45:53 --> 02:45:53
			of Luke.
		
02:45:54 --> 02:45:57
			Okay. So Christian polemicist must admit
		
02:45:58 --> 02:46:00
			that not all of the contents of the
		
02:46:00 --> 02:46:01
			Infancy Gospel of Thomas
		
02:46:01 --> 02:46:04
			were intended to be fictional by its author.
		
02:46:04 --> 02:46:05
			Because if so, then they are admitting that
		
02:46:05 --> 02:46:08
			there is fiction in the gospel of Luke.
		
02:46:08 --> 02:46:09
			My position
		
02:46:09 --> 02:46:11
			is that there that is is that all
		
02:46:11 --> 02:46:14
			of these gospels contain truth and fiction. In
		
02:46:14 --> 02:46:17
			other words, authentic reports and fabricated reports. It's
		
02:46:17 --> 02:46:20
			a huge corpus of Hadith that must be
		
02:46:20 --> 02:46:20
			examined.
		
02:46:22 --> 02:46:25
			A Christian apologist may say here, but but,
		
02:46:25 --> 02:46:28
			Pseudo Thomas believed Jesus was God. And the
		
02:46:28 --> 02:46:31
			Quran relates a very similar miracle. Therefore, the
		
02:46:31 --> 02:46:34
			Quran teaches that Jesus is God, right? Again,
		
02:46:34 --> 02:46:36
			the double standard problem.
		
02:46:36 --> 02:46:38
			I can do the very same thing.
		
02:46:38 --> 02:46:42
			Jude quoted 1st Enoch. In 1st Enoch, Enoch
		
02:46:42 --> 02:46:44
			is called the son of man. Therefore, Jude
		
02:46:44 --> 02:46:47
			taught that Enoch and not Jesus was a
		
02:46:47 --> 02:46:49
			son of man. You see how this works.
		
02:46:49 --> 02:46:50
			Now,
		
02:46:51 --> 02:46:54
			the infinicy gospel of Thomas was very popular,
		
02:46:55 --> 02:46:57
			okay, among ancient Christians.
		
02:46:57 --> 02:46:59
			It influenced a lot of Christian art and
		
02:46:59 --> 02:47:00
			poetry.
		
02:47:00 --> 02:47:02
			Irenaeus knew of it and denounced it. I
		
02:47:02 --> 02:47:04
			mean, he felt compelled to explicitly
		
02:47:04 --> 02:47:05
			denounce it,
		
02:47:06 --> 02:47:08
			for his own reasons precisely because it was
		
02:47:08 --> 02:47:09
			so popular among Christians.
		
02:47:10 --> 02:47:12
			This story of Jesus fashioning clay into birds
		
02:47:12 --> 02:47:15
			and giving them life is the first miracle
		
02:47:15 --> 02:47:16
			mentioned by Pseudo Thomas. This is how he
		
02:47:16 --> 02:47:19
			starts his gospel. This miracle also shows up
		
02:47:19 --> 02:47:20
			in Pseudo Matthew
		
02:47:20 --> 02:47:21
			chapter 27
		
02:47:21 --> 02:47:23
			and the Arabic gospel of the infancy of
		
02:47:23 --> 02:47:26
			the savior, also known as the Syriac Infancy
		
02:47:26 --> 02:47:27
			Gospel chapter 36.
		
02:47:27 --> 02:47:30
			Now these latter 2 were likely influenced by
		
02:47:30 --> 02:47:32
			the Quran. I'll talk about the the Arabic
		
02:47:33 --> 02:47:35
			infancy gospel next. But regardless, my point is
		
02:47:35 --> 02:47:37
			that this particular story about Jesus
		
02:47:38 --> 02:47:40
			was very popular and many, many Christians both
		
02:47:40 --> 02:47:42
			before and after Islam
		
02:47:43 --> 02:47:45
			mentioned a version of it and had no
		
02:47:45 --> 02:47:46
			issues with it.
		
02:47:47 --> 02:47:49
			This story also shows up in the in
		
02:47:49 --> 02:47:51
			the Tola Dath Yeshu. Right? The book of
		
02:47:51 --> 02:47:54
			the history of Jesus. The first polemical Jewish
		
02:47:54 --> 02:47:54
			response
		
02:47:55 --> 02:47:57
			to Jesus of Nazareth. So this particular story
		
02:47:57 --> 02:47:59
			of Jesus is found in in Christian,
		
02:47:59 --> 02:48:01
			Jewish, and Muslim sources.
		
02:48:01 --> 02:48:04
			Yet all three groups use this story to
		
02:48:04 --> 02:48:05
			draw vastly different
		
02:48:05 --> 02:48:08
			conclusions about who Jesus was. It's quite interesting.
		
02:48:08 --> 02:48:10
			It's very fascinating. In Christian circles, it was
		
02:48:10 --> 02:48:12
			used to demonstrate that Jesus was God. In
		
02:48:12 --> 02:48:15
			Muslim circles, it demonstrate that Jesus was a
		
02:48:15 --> 02:48:17
			prophet. He performs the miracle
		
02:48:17 --> 02:48:19
			according to the Quran by God's permission. And
		
02:48:19 --> 02:48:21
			in Jewish circles, it demonstrates that Jesus was
		
02:48:21 --> 02:48:24
			a sorcerer and a false prophet. Same story.
		
02:48:26 --> 02:48:27
			So this brings us to the question, how
		
02:48:27 --> 02:48:29
			does the Quran engage with the
		
02:48:30 --> 02:48:32
			the gospel of Thomas? So same question as
		
02:48:32 --> 02:48:34
			before, is there direct literary dependence or is
		
02:48:34 --> 02:48:37
			something else happening? So historically, again,
		
02:48:37 --> 02:48:39
			we basically have 2 options. We saw these
		
02:48:39 --> 02:48:41
			2 options earlier when we looked at the
		
02:48:41 --> 02:48:42
			proto gospel of James.
		
02:48:43 --> 02:48:45
			Option number 1, at some point, the prophet
		
02:48:45 --> 02:48:47
			of Mohammed, peace be upon him, heard this
		
02:48:47 --> 02:48:49
			text somehow, the Infiniti gospel of Thomas,
		
02:48:50 --> 02:48:52
			in an Arabic translation. But again, remember the
		
02:48:52 --> 02:48:53
			prophet was a lettered. And even if you
		
02:48:53 --> 02:48:55
			could read or write, the chances that he
		
02:48:55 --> 02:48:57
			had a nice Arabic translation of the Infiniti
		
02:48:57 --> 02:49:00
			gospel of Thomas sitting on his bookshelf in
		
02:49:00 --> 02:49:02
			his secret library in Mecca or Medina is
		
02:49:02 --> 02:49:03
			virtually 0.
		
02:49:03 --> 02:49:05
			Unlike again, Matthew and Luke, who did have
		
02:49:05 --> 02:49:07
			Greek copies of Mark and Q.
		
02:49:07 --> 02:49:09
			So the prophet must have heard this text
		
02:49:09 --> 02:49:09
			somehow
		
02:49:10 --> 02:49:11
			in an Arabic translation.
		
02:49:11 --> 02:49:14
			Then he wrote or dictated what he remembered
		
02:49:14 --> 02:49:16
			in the Quran while also adapting the text
		
02:49:16 --> 02:49:18
			to fit in with his own theology. So
		
02:49:18 --> 02:49:20
			this explains the similarity similarities and differences.
		
02:49:21 --> 02:49:23
			This option assumes that the prophet was directly
		
02:49:23 --> 02:49:25
			dependent upon the prophecy of Thomas,
		
02:49:25 --> 02:49:26
			where,
		
02:49:27 --> 02:49:28
			so in other words, there was direct literary
		
02:49:29 --> 02:49:29
			dependence.
		
02:49:31 --> 02:49:33
			Option number 2, various traditions about Jesus as
		
02:49:33 --> 02:49:35
			a youth were transmitted orally since the 1st
		
02:49:35 --> 02:49:38
			century by various messianic Jews, quote, unquote, Christians.
		
02:49:39 --> 02:49:41
			Over time, these traditions were modified and expanded
		
02:49:41 --> 02:49:42
			by various Christian communities,
		
02:49:43 --> 02:49:45
			including the community which authored the Infosys gospel
		
02:49:45 --> 02:49:47
			of Thomas in the 2nd century. The versions
		
02:49:47 --> 02:49:49
			of these traditions that were popular in the
		
02:49:49 --> 02:49:49
			Arabian
		
02:49:50 --> 02:49:52
			Peninsula made their way into the text of
		
02:49:52 --> 02:49:54
			the Quran. Therefore, the Quran is not directly
		
02:49:54 --> 02:49:56
			dependent upon the Infincy Gospel of Thomas, but
		
02:49:56 --> 02:49:58
			drew its narratives from a shared oral tradition
		
02:49:58 --> 02:50:00
			that was based upon an ancient Near Eastern
		
02:50:00 --> 02:50:01
			Messianic
		
02:50:02 --> 02:50:03
			or proclamation.
		
02:50:03 --> 02:50:05
			So these are the two options historically.
		
02:50:06 --> 02:50:09
			Now again, strictly from a standpoint of secular
		
02:50:09 --> 02:50:09
			history,
		
02:50:10 --> 02:50:13
			did Jesus actually breathe on clay birds and
		
02:50:13 --> 02:50:14
			bring them to life? Well, the answer is
		
02:50:14 --> 02:50:16
			no comment because it's a miracle. It's non
		
02:50:16 --> 02:50:18
			historical. Secular historians,
		
02:50:18 --> 02:50:20
			they don't touch it. The relevant historical question
		
02:50:20 --> 02:50:23
			is, is it plausible that this story goes
		
02:50:23 --> 02:50:24
			back to Jesus himself?
		
02:50:24 --> 02:50:26
			Is it plausible that a memory of Jesus
		
02:50:26 --> 02:50:29
			breathing life in the clay had its origin
		
02:50:29 --> 02:50:32
			in Jesus himself? And that this story was
		
02:50:32 --> 02:50:34
			transmitted by his disciples until it reached the
		
02:50:34 --> 02:50:36
			ears of some Pauline Christians
		
02:50:36 --> 02:50:39
			like Pseudo Thomas who wrote it down. Well,
		
02:50:39 --> 02:50:41
			given the story's popularity in antiquity,
		
02:50:42 --> 02:50:43
			yes, it is plausible.
		
02:50:44 --> 02:50:46
			Is it plausible that the Jamesonian Christians recorded
		
02:50:46 --> 02:50:48
			the story in their own writings? Of course.
		
02:50:48 --> 02:50:49
			But alas,
		
02:50:50 --> 02:50:52
			don't have any authentic writings from 1st century
		
02:50:52 --> 02:50:54
			Jamesonian Christians.
		
02:50:54 --> 02:50:57
			Now, if this story goes back to Jesus
		
02:50:57 --> 02:50:57
			himself,
		
02:50:58 --> 02:51:01
			what is more likely? That Jesus claimed to
		
02:51:01 --> 02:51:03
			have performed this miracle because he wanted to
		
02:51:03 --> 02:51:05
			demonstrate that he was God or that he
		
02:51:05 --> 02:51:08
			was a prophet and performed the miracle by
		
02:51:08 --> 02:51:10
			God's permission. What makes the most
		
02:51:11 --> 02:51:14
			sense in Jesus' 1st century Jewish context?
		
02:51:15 --> 02:51:16
			Obviously, the latter.
		
02:51:16 --> 02:51:17
			Even in Matthew,
		
02:51:17 --> 02:51:19
			chapter 9 after Jesus heals
		
02:51:20 --> 02:51:21
			a paralytic,
		
02:51:21 --> 02:51:24
			Matthew says that when the crowd saw this,
		
02:51:24 --> 02:51:27
			they were filled with fear and glorified God
		
02:51:27 --> 02:51:30
			who had given such authority to men.
		
02:51:30 --> 02:51:33
			Jesus was a man given authority by God.
		
02:51:36 --> 02:51:39
			As the Quran says, God gave me the
		
02:51:39 --> 02:51:41
			scripture and made me a prophet.
		
02:51:41 --> 02:51:43
			Now the Told of Yeshu was likely written
		
02:51:43 --> 02:51:45
			in the late antique,
		
02:51:45 --> 02:51:48
			but it's stories about Jesus probably circulated for
		
02:51:48 --> 02:51:49
			centuries.
		
02:51:50 --> 02:51:52
			So much of the Told of Yeshu was
		
02:51:52 --> 02:51:53
			written in direct response to the New Testament
		
02:51:53 --> 02:51:56
			gospels. This is obviously true. The Told of
		
02:51:56 --> 02:51:58
			Yeshu contains clear counter narratives to the New
		
02:51:58 --> 02:52:01
			Testament accounts about Jesus. But as I said,
		
02:52:01 --> 02:52:03
			the Tole Adaf Yeshu, curiously enough,
		
02:52:04 --> 02:52:06
			also contains this story, of Jesus and the
		
02:52:06 --> 02:52:07
			clay birds.
		
02:52:07 --> 02:52:09
			Now, certainly, the Jews who reject
		
02:52:10 --> 02:52:10
			the Jesus
		
02:52:11 --> 02:52:13
			were talking about Jesus since the time of
		
02:52:13 --> 02:52:14
			Jesus.
		
02:52:14 --> 02:52:15
			This is evident.
		
02:52:15 --> 02:52:17
			They must have been responding to the claims
		
02:52:17 --> 02:52:19
			of Jesus and his immediate disciples.
		
02:52:20 --> 02:52:21
			It seems to me that one could make
		
02:52:21 --> 02:52:23
			the case that this particular story
		
02:52:23 --> 02:52:25
			of Jesus and the clay birds,
		
02:52:26 --> 02:52:29
			was circulating among not only Jamesonian and Paul
		
02:52:29 --> 02:52:32
			and Christians, but also among non Christian Jews,
		
02:52:32 --> 02:52:34
			even as early as the 1st century. In
		
02:52:34 --> 02:52:37
			other words, this story was also preserved in
		
02:52:37 --> 02:52:39
			some form among the memories
		
02:52:39 --> 02:52:42
			of non Christian Jews, like the rabbis, until
		
02:52:42 --> 02:52:44
			it was finally recorded in the Tullib of
		
02:52:44 --> 02:52:44
			Yeshu.
		
02:52:45 --> 02:52:47
			So then the Quran mentions it to make
		
02:52:47 --> 02:52:49
			a point to both communities.
		
02:52:50 --> 02:52:52
			Jesus did in fact perform this miracle, but
		
02:52:52 --> 02:52:54
			not because he was God and not because
		
02:52:54 --> 02:52:56
			he was a sorcerer. He was neither God
		
02:52:56 --> 02:52:58
			nor a fraud, as they say.
		
02:53:00 --> 02:53:02
			Let's move to the Arabic gospel
		
02:53:02 --> 02:53:05
			of the infancy of the savior, also known
		
02:53:05 --> 02:53:06
			as a Syriac Infancy gospel. This is the
		
02:53:06 --> 02:53:08
			last one we want to look at, so
		
02:53:08 --> 02:53:10
			we're very close to being done here just
		
02:53:10 --> 02:53:11
			a few more minutes.
		
02:53:12 --> 02:53:14
			So here is
		
02:53:14 --> 02:53:15
			a quote from
		
02:53:15 --> 02:53:17
			the Arabic gospel. We'll just call it the
		
02:53:17 --> 02:53:19
			Arabic gospel verse 2.
		
02:53:19 --> 02:53:21
			When he, Jesus, was lying in his cradle,
		
02:53:21 --> 02:53:23
			he said to his mother he said to
		
02:53:23 --> 02:53:25
			Mary his mother, I am Jesus, the son
		
02:53:25 --> 02:53:26
			of God, the logos,
		
02:53:26 --> 02:53:27
			through whom
		
02:53:27 --> 02:53:28
			hast thou
		
02:53:29 --> 02:53:29
			brought forth
		
02:53:30 --> 02:53:32
			as the angel Gabriel announced to thee, and
		
02:53:32 --> 02:53:33
			my father has sent me for the salvation
		
02:53:33 --> 02:53:34
			of the world.
		
02:53:35 --> 02:53:37
			Okay. So the Quran says,
		
02:53:41 --> 02:53:43
			So she pointed, Mary pointed to Jesus.
		
02:53:44 --> 02:53:46
			They said, her family said, how can we
		
02:53:46 --> 02:53:47
			speak to a child in the cradle?
		
02:53:51 --> 02:53:53
			Jesus said, I am the servant of God.
		
02:53:53 --> 02:53:55
			He has given me the scripture and made
		
02:53:55 --> 02:53:55
			me a Prophet.
		
02:53:59 --> 02:54:02
			And He made me blessed, wheresoever I am.
		
02:54:02 --> 02:54:04
			You know, Paul says Jesus became accursed, He's
		
02:54:04 --> 02:54:05
			Mal'oon.
		
02:54:05 --> 02:54:07
			The Quran says the opposite, that Jesus is
		
02:54:07 --> 02:54:08
			Mubarak. He's blessed.
		
02:54:08 --> 02:54:11
			And He commanded me prayer and charity as
		
02:54:11 --> 02:54:12
			long as I live.
		
02:54:14 --> 02:54:15
			And He commanded me to be kind to
		
02:54:15 --> 02:54:17
			my mother and not to be arrogant or
		
02:54:17 --> 02:54:18
			defiant.
		
02:54:22 --> 02:54:24
			So peace be upon me the day I
		
02:54:24 --> 02:54:26
			was born, the day that I die, and
		
02:54:26 --> 02:54:27
			the day that I embrace up to life.
		
02:54:27 --> 02:54:29
			And of course, Jesus will be resurrected on
		
02:54:29 --> 02:54:30
			the day of judgment.
		
02:54:34 --> 02:54:36
			Such was Jesus, the son of Mary. There's
		
02:54:36 --> 02:54:37
			a statement of truth about which they are
		
02:54:37 --> 02:54:38
			disputing. Maqhanalillahi
		
02:54:39 --> 02:54:39
			ayaatahidah
		
02:54:40 --> 02:54:41
			minwaladin
		
02:54:41 --> 02:54:42
			subhana idaqabaamranfa
		
02:54:43 --> 02:54:45
			inna mayyahu lahuqood vayukun. It is not for
		
02:54:45 --> 02:54:47
			God to take a son, glory be to
		
02:54:47 --> 02:54:49
			him. Whenever he decrees a matter, he only
		
02:54:49 --> 02:54:50
			says it will be it is.
		
02:54:54 --> 02:54:55
			And Jesus said, God is my Lord and
		
02:54:55 --> 02:54:57
			your Lord, so worship Him. This is the
		
02:54:57 --> 02:55:00
			straight path. Surat Manayam verses 29
		
02:55:00 --> 02:55:01
			to 36.
		
02:55:03 --> 02:55:05
			So the big similarity, and this is the
		
02:55:05 --> 02:55:06
			last slide,
		
02:55:06 --> 02:55:08
			the big similarity here is Jesus speaking as
		
02:55:08 --> 02:55:09
			an infant.
		
02:55:11 --> 02:55:13
			Now there is no manuscript of this gospel,
		
02:55:13 --> 02:55:16
			the Arabic gospel of the infancy that predates
		
02:55:16 --> 02:55:17
			the 13th century.
		
02:55:18 --> 02:55:20
			And the earliest mention of it is in
		
02:55:20 --> 02:55:21
			the 9th century.
		
02:55:22 --> 02:55:25
			When was Surah Maryam of the Quran composed?
		
02:55:25 --> 02:55:28
			No later than 6/22. It's a Meccan Surah
		
02:55:28 --> 02:55:31
			according to everyone. Again, this is indisputable. The
		
02:55:31 --> 02:55:33
			Birmingham manuscript contains Surah Maryam.
		
02:55:33 --> 02:55:34
			There's
		
02:55:34 --> 02:55:36
			There's no mention of the Arabic gospel before
		
02:55:36 --> 02:55:38
			the 9th century, yet the Arabic gospel was
		
02:55:38 --> 02:55:39
			the source of the Quran.
		
02:55:40 --> 02:55:42
			What? Did did the prophet, peace be upon
		
02:55:42 --> 02:55:44
			him, somehow plagiarize something that most likely was
		
02:55:44 --> 02:55:47
			written 200 years after his death? How did
		
02:55:47 --> 02:55:49
			he do that? Okay. So this is similar
		
02:55:49 --> 02:55:50
			to Surah Matthew.
		
02:55:51 --> 02:55:53
			Millions of Christians from all over the Middle
		
02:55:53 --> 02:55:55
			East, what what would later be called the
		
02:55:55 --> 02:55:57
			Middle East. Millions of Christians were hearing the
		
02:55:57 --> 02:55:59
			Quran for the first time, and the Quran
		
02:55:59 --> 02:56:00
			was making quite the splash.
		
02:56:00 --> 02:56:02
			So it seems to me that the
		
02:56:04 --> 02:56:07
			Arabic gospel was a response to and critical
		
02:56:07 --> 02:56:10
			rewriting of the Quranic narrative rather
		
02:56:10 --> 02:56:11
			than the other way around. It seems to
		
02:56:11 --> 02:56:13
			me that the author of the Arabic gospel
		
02:56:13 --> 02:56:15
			wanted to convert Muslims
		
02:56:15 --> 02:56:18
			through the Quran's method of storytelling. That is
		
02:56:18 --> 02:56:21
			through confirmation, correction, and rejection. In other words,
		
02:56:21 --> 02:56:24
			the Arabic gospel is a Christian counternarrative
		
02:56:24 --> 02:56:26
			to the Quran. The author of the Arabic
		
02:56:26 --> 02:56:28
			gospel was trying to beat the Quran at
		
02:56:28 --> 02:56:29
			its own game.
		
02:56:30 --> 02:56:32
			Here again, the Quran is not directly dependent
		
02:56:32 --> 02:56:33
			upon the Arabic gospel.
		
02:56:34 --> 02:56:36
			So where did the Quran get this information
		
02:56:36 --> 02:56:38
			from that Jesus spoke as an infant? Historically,
		
02:56:38 --> 02:56:40
			one option is, again, the prophet made it
		
02:56:40 --> 02:56:42
			up, which again does not fit his personality
		
02:56:42 --> 02:56:44
			at all. Or option number 2, the prophet
		
02:56:44 --> 02:56:47
			heard certain oral traditions about Jesus, broadly speaking,
		
02:56:47 --> 02:56:49
			that he spoke as an infant and identified
		
02:56:49 --> 02:56:50
			himself
		
02:56:50 --> 02:56:53
			somehow. And the prophet incorporated this tradition into
		
02:56:53 --> 02:56:55
			the Quran. Either way, he was not directly
		
02:56:55 --> 02:56:58
			dependent upon the Arabic gospel. And again, personally,
		
02:56:58 --> 02:57:00
			I think the prophet received these narratives,
		
02:57:01 --> 02:57:02
			directly from an angel. And I have good
		
02:57:02 --> 02:57:05
			reasons for trusting the prophet's claim. Here's the
		
02:57:05 --> 02:57:07
			bottom line. Does it stand to reason? Does
		
02:57:07 --> 02:57:09
			it make sense that the prophet plagiarized
		
02:57:10 --> 02:57:13
			this apocryphal gospel? No. This is not what
		
02:57:13 --> 02:57:14
			the evidence suggests
		
02:57:14 --> 02:57:17
			at all. And that is the end of
		
02:57:17 --> 02:57:17
			the presentation.
		
02:57:18 --> 02:57:20
			Oh, I do want to make one book
		
02:57:20 --> 02:57:20
			recommendation.
		
02:57:21 --> 02:57:24
			It's called the apocryphal gospels. It's by Ehrman
		
02:57:24 --> 02:57:24
			and Pliese,
		
02:57:25 --> 02:57:28
			p l e s e, the Apocryphal Gospels.
		
02:57:28 --> 02:57:32
			It's a fantastic book. They present about 40
		
02:57:32 --> 02:57:34
			ancient gospels that do not appear in the
		
02:57:34 --> 02:57:36
			New Testament. It's really important for us as
		
02:57:36 --> 02:57:37
			Muslims to have a broader understanding
		
02:57:38 --> 02:57:40
			of the Christian tradition and Christian history because
		
02:57:40 --> 02:57:43
			the Quran has something to say about that
		
02:57:43 --> 02:57:43
			tradition
		
02:57:44 --> 02:57:44
			in history.
		
02:57:45 --> 02:57:47
			Yep. And my, my recommendation is this one,
		
02:57:48 --> 02:57:50
			Sydney H. Griffith, an American professor, specialist in
		
02:57:50 --> 02:57:53
			the area. The violin in Arabic, the scriptures
		
02:57:53 --> 02:57:54
			of the people in the book in the
		
02:57:54 --> 02:57:55
			language of Islam. Now, there is
		
02:58:00 --> 02:58:02
			Qur'an critically engages in the biblical tradition. It's
		
02:58:02 --> 02:58:03
			not simply affirming
		
02:58:07 --> 02:58:10
			prophetology as he calls it, Sydney Griffith. So
		
02:58:10 --> 02:58:11
			if you want an academic
		
02:58:12 --> 02:58:12
			non Muslim
		
02:58:13 --> 02:58:15
			analysis of many of the themes that Doctor.
		
02:58:15 --> 02:58:16
			Elliot Tai has covered,
		
02:58:17 --> 02:58:19
			in a broad agreement, I would think of
		
02:58:19 --> 02:58:21
			what Al Attai said. I would recommend
		
02:58:21 --> 02:58:24
			this book by professor Sydney h Griffiths. He's
		
02:58:24 --> 02:58:27
			a leading specialist in the field, highly regarded
		
02:58:27 --> 02:58:30
			by other academic colleagues from Harvard and Yale
		
02:58:30 --> 02:58:30
			and so on.
		
02:58:31 --> 02:58:33
			Thank you so much, doctor Aleutai, for a
		
02:58:33 --> 02:58:33
			magisterial,
		
02:58:34 --> 02:58:36
			as always, a magisterial survey
		
02:58:36 --> 02:58:39
			of the subject that you have, chosen to
		
02:58:39 --> 02:58:39
			present.
		
02:58:40 --> 02:58:42
			There's so much I can begin to comment
		
02:58:42 --> 02:58:44
			on what you said. There's so much content
		
02:58:44 --> 02:58:44
			there,
		
02:58:45 --> 02:58:47
			which would be of inestimal value, I'm sure,
		
02:58:48 --> 02:58:50
			for many, many people, Muslim and non Muslim,
		
02:58:50 --> 02:58:51
			inshallah,
		
02:58:51 --> 02:58:53
			who can benefit from your analysis. So thank
		
02:58:53 --> 02:58:55
			you so much. Thank you, Paul. Thanks for
		
02:58:55 --> 02:58:56
			having me again. It's good to see you
		
02:58:56 --> 02:58:58
			again. Until next time.