Adnan Rashid – Ahmadi Struggles To Defend Mirza
AI: Summary ©
The speakers stress the importance of addressing the truths and avoiding false assumptions related to the death of various people. They mention references to various events and references, including a woman who died in marriage and a woman who was scared by her family. The importance of addressing the truths and avoiding false assumptions is emphasized, along with the importance of the Mahdi's statement and the importance of the Mahdi's statement. The segment also discusses various topics related to the prophecy, including Mirza's false claims about marriage, Ah worker's false claims about marriage, Niddar Begum's false claims about marriage, and the sister's false claims about marriage.
AI: Summary ©
It proves my point, I challenge you brother
Yahya, I challenge you, Mirza always said this,
that the repentance of the family can only
cause the delay, not cancellation.
These are only two points you need to
address.
Mirza said, I will get married to this
woman as the word of God states clearly.
Mirza, he received a revelation and he claimed
this is the word of God and God's
word cannot change.
Muhammad Begum never got married to Mirza.
Did God change his word?
A direct question to you.
The point we are discussing, we have already
discussed the prophecy of Muhammad Begum in the
previous stream.
We gave our points and Ahmadiyya brothers, they
came, they responded already.
Today we presented three prophecies because two of
them are going to be the criterion for
everyone and the last one about his age,
that was the Nishan for the future people.
So, we are discussing that Mirza Sahib has
declared a criterion to verify his truthfulness to
some of the prophecies and one of them
was, we discussed already, earthquake, Muhammad Begum's prophecy.
Now, here's the point we are discussing brother
Yahya.
Mirza Sahib has clearly mentioned that if Sultan
Begum will not die and obviously, if this
woman, Muhammad Begum will not come in his
marriage, then we are, it is okay for
us to call him that he was not
from God because he declared, he said that
I make this prophecy criterion to verify the
truthfulness or the falsehood of my claim.
Now, obviously, we all know Sultan Begum did
not die.
He did not marry with Muhammad Begum.
So, according to his own standards, he has
proven wrong.
So, this is the point under discussion.
Okay, Jazakallah.
Can you share my screen please brother?
Brother Hashim, can you hear me?
Yeah, Jazakallah.
Okay, brother, first of all, brother Imtiaz, I'm
very sorry to say that whenever you bring
any prophecy, you do not tell us the
full story.
My apologies for bringing that but I will,
I'm proving, I will try to prove you
why I'm saying that.
With regard to Muhammad Begum prophecy, you have
only showed one, one aspect of the prophecy.
The fact is, Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala
told Mirza Sahib, I will read first Urdu
quickly and then I will translate it.
He said, لكن میں انہیں یک دم حلاق
نہیں کروں گا.
The family of Muhammad Begum.
بلکہ آہستہ آہستہ تاکہ وہ رجوع کریں اور
توبہ کرنے والوں میں سے ہو جائیں.
What does it mean?
Allah is saying, I'm not going to kill
them, all of them together.
I will kill them one by one.
Why?
He said so that they do, they repent.
So that was the main purpose of the
prophecy.
And then after that Allah says that I
will do that once they repent, whoever repents,
I will give them rahma.
They will be under my rahma.
Another part of the prophecy which brother you
didn't show, very important part, Allah Ta'ala
told Hazrat Mirza Sahib in 1888, 15th July
1888.
He said, توبی توبی فَإِنَّ الْبَلَاءَ عَلَىٰ أَقْبِكَ
وَالْمُسِيْبَةُ نَازِلَتُنْ عَلَيْكَ يَمُودُ.
What does it mean?
He says that, oh women, do tawbah, do
tawbah because there is going to be a
trouble with your daughter and your daughter's daughter.
And then the third part of the prophecy
which you did not mention, very important, he
said, وَيَوْقَ مِنْهُ قِلَابٌ مُتَدِّدًا.
Then after the prophecy, the dogs will still
continue barking.
That's very important point.
What does it mean?
Why I'm saying that?
Because it means, it shows that Allah told
Hazrat Mirza Sahib in the very beginning that
the way prophecy will be fulfilled, people will
still talk about the prophecy.
And this part we are still seeing now
is being fulfilled even today.
Second, my point is brother, result of the
prophecy.
Look, who is this?
This is mother of Muhammadi Begum, buried in
Bahishti Maqbara, Qadian.
How did that happen?
Think about it.
Prophecy, that's the result of the prophecy.
Secondly, that's the letter of Muhammadi Begum's son
who became Ahmadi, who categorically declared that I
became Ahmadi because I saw my family going
through hardship, going through the trouble which Mirza
Sahib predicted.
And because of that, my father was scared
of the whole situation.
And that's the reason he did not, we
call it he didn't say anything against Hazrat
Mirza Sahib.
Now, the point I'm trying to make is,
I will quickly show you my camera now.
There are two important years for this prophecy.
One is before 1894 and 1892 and then
is after 1892.
Up to 1892, as according to the first
part of the prophecy brothers, the whole family,
they were against Mirza Sahib, not just Mirza
Sahib, they were against Islam.
They were friends with Christians.
But when Ahmad Beg died, six months after
Muhammadi Begum was married to Sultan Muhammad, as
prophesied by the prophecy, the whole family, all
of a sudden their behavior changed.
They stopped being friends with Christians.
They all of a sudden, those people, they
got scared.
They wrote a letter to Mirza Sahib and
according to prophecy, as Allah told Hazrat Mirza
Sahib, then they came under Rahma.
What was the Rahma?
Rahma was that Sultan Muhammad, he was, because
he didn't do anything wrong after that, he
didn't say anything against Mirza Sahib.
He was given long life as prophesied in
the prophecy.
So point I'm trying to make it, you
just said, the Mirza Sahib said that the
good thing is that the prophecy, your word,
you just said it.
So I showed you the zahir alfas, the
actual word of the God which Allah revealed
to Hazrat Mirza Sahib.
And according to us, this prophecy has been
fulfilled as Allah revealed to Hazrat Mirza Sahib.
Okay.
Your time is up.
Let brother Imtiaz come in.
You were given four minutes, by the way.
Brother Imtiaz, you can go ahead, but keep
it, after this, keep it to two minutes.
Okay.
Please two minutes each rather than going on
for too long because then the points are
raised and then it gets a bit too
long.
So Imtiaz, go ahead.
I give brother Yahya 30 seconds to tell
me one point because it will be very
crucial.
So you said at the end that the
prophecy was fulfilled.
So can you tell me what was the
prophecy and how it was fulfilled?
I give you one minute.
Okay.
The prophecy was about the whole family.
That's very important thing.
Prophecy was not just Mohammadi Begum.
And that's the reason brothers, Hazrat Mirza Sahib
never in his life called this prophecy, prophecy
of Mohammadi Begum.
He called it prophecy of Ahmad Beg family.
Prophecy was about Ahmad Beg family.
And the prophecy was those people, they had
gone astray.
They were friends of Christians.
That's the reason the first letter was published
in Noor Afshan, Christian newspaper.
Now the prophecy was because they were asking
for a sign from Hazrat Mirza Sahib, sign
that God still speaks to human being.
And Hazrat Mirza Sahib, that's why he gave
them a sign.
And the sign was that you are now
friends of the Christians.
If you continue like that, if you still
against Islam, Allah will kill the father if
he marries Mohammadi Begum to another man.
And that's what exactly happened.
And then according to prophecies, once they repent,
they will be under Rahma of Allah.
That was a prophecy.
And that's what exactly happened.
You done brother?
Yes.
Okay.
Okay.
Now, because I want to keep it very
simple and straightforward.
So Inshallah, I'm gonna raise three points in
this in my turn.
Inshallah after that will each take two minutes
each to address these three points.
So point number one.
So the central point and just one thing,
brother, are you saying that you're going to
raise three points and then your two minutes
will start?
So this is included in two minutes.
No, no.
First I will take four minutes, which you
took just after that.
We have two minutes each.
Okay, that's fine.
Okay.
So the point number one, Inshallah, my four
minutes start now.
So point number one is that I want
everybody to listen very carefully because Inshallah, Inshallah,
with Allah's Tawfiq, I said that we want
to make it very decisive stream.
Okay.
So there are two things.
If the family of Sultan Bey and Ahmed
Bey and all of those the deletives, if
they repent, there will be one result.
And if they don't repent, there'll be a
different result.
So as a result of their repentance, which
according to the Jamaat and according to Mirza's
writing, this repentance happened after the death of
Ahmed Bey.
Ahmed Bey died towards the end of 1892.
Please note this.
In 1892, Ahmed Bey has died and according
to Mirza and Jamaat, the whole family has
repented.
Now what should be the result of repentance?
We all know that now because they have
repented, Sultan Bey will not die and no
more marriage with Mohammadi Begum.
This has been finished in 1892.
Now listen to my point very carefully.
Up till 1907, we have the references.
There is no such thing Mirza Sahib ever
published that because they have repented now, so
the matter has finished.
How many years?
We can't hear you anymore.
Your voice is gone.
Yeah, I think something went wrong with the
camera as well.
It went red.
Can you hear me now?
We can hear you now, yes.
Continue please.
So I was saying that from 1892 till
1907, they are 15 years.
Mirza Sahib has continuously been given revelations, prophecies
and news of the death of Sultan Bey
and his marriage with Mohammadi Begum.
So my question is this.
Please note the question.
The question is if family has repented in
1892, how would you explain that why Mirza
Sahib kept saying all of these things up
till his death?
And we have the last reference from 1907.
That is one point.
Second point is look, if family would not
repent, what would be the result?
Sultan Bey will die and Mirza Sahib will
marry Mohammadi Begum.
Now I want, I'm going to raise a
very new point.
Please listen everybody carefully.
Mirza Sahib and Jamaat Ahmadiyya, they want to
have it both ways.
What is the result of repentance?
No marriage, no death.
And what is the result of not repentance?
Marriage and death.
So Mirza was prophesying both of these two
things.
Okay, so now you have to choose one.
You can't have it both ways.
So you need to take your pick.
Is it repentance or is it not repentance?
I just want to keep this one point.
I finish.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Brother Imtiaz, I think you have completely misunderstood
the prophecy.
My apologies for saying that.
Because you made a big claim and you
said that after 1892, Mirza Sahib was given
prophecies and prophecies kept coming about the marriage
and about Sultan Muhammad's death.
Can you show me the prophecies please?
That's first point.
Okay.
Because there was no new prophecy after Sultan,
after Ahmad Beg's death from Hazrat Mirza Sahib.
Mirza Sahib repeated the same words as he
was given in 1880s.
So that, please correct yourself.
That's one thing.
Secondly, you said that there were two things
were given.
If they repent, this will happen.
And if they don't, if he doesn't repent,
that will happen.
Of course, that is part of the prophecy,
brother.
Prophecy says that I will kill them gradually,
one by one.
And once they repent, they will under Rahma.
That's the word of God.
So what's wrong with that?
And exactly as it was written in the
prophecy, Hazrat Mirza Sahib kept on repeating only,
only when ulama of the time, not Sultan
Muhammad, not Muhammad-e-Bakr relatives, because they
were quiet.
They didn't say a word about the prophecy
after that.
Once Ahmad Beg passed away, they were so
scared.
They didn't say a word about that prophecy.
Ulama of the time and Christians, they brought
this prophecy again and again in their literature.
And at that time, Hazrat Mirza Sahib, he
repeated those words.
Okay.
I will point out to everyone at this,
this, this moment, brother, as in 1894, Hazrat
Mirza Sahib wrote on 6th of October, 1894,
Huzoor-e-Islam wrote this, this, this article,
which says, Mirza Ahmad Bekushari and his son
-in-law, Sultan Muhammad's prophecy.
The prophecy.
And he told categorically in this, in this,
this article, that this prophecy was taqdeer-e
-mubram, not mubram, it was mawlid, and it
will only turn taqdeer-e-mubram once Sultan
Muhammad does taqdeer.
Now, my challenge to you is, brother, from
1892 to 1908, my challenge is, show me
one word from Sultan Muhammad where he said
anything against Hazrat Mirza Sahib.
Because if he doesn't say anything about, against
anything about Mirza Sahib.
Your time is up.
One last sentence.
Remember, according to prophecy, he is under God's
rahmah.
Okay, good.
Two, two minutes and 50 seconds.
Carry on.
Okay.
So, inshallah, let's go one by one.
So, the first question I have been given
to address is, that produced to us the
revelation.
Okay.
Brother Yahya, please note down the references.
Okay.
So, this is from 1896.
And in this one, I read in Urdu
and English as well.
Brother, reference.
Brother, reference first, please.
Yes, yes, yes.
I give you, I give you.
Which page?
Volume 11, page number 223.
Okay.
Now, let me read the reference.
1896 reference.
The one you are quoting, you said it
was from 1894.
I'm giving you in this turn, 1896.
And inshallah, in the subsequent term, I'll give
you more references.
Okay.
Now, listen.
And in the context, the khabar is Sultan
Baig will die and marriage of Mohammadi Begum.
Or now, listen, next part very carefully.
In 1896, when Mirza gave this challenge, he
said, 1896 reference.
And then after that, like I said before,
we have references.
You can ask me.
I will keep giving you the references.
Now, the reference you need to give me
now.
Now, brother Yahya, you asked me for the
reference I gave to you.
Now, please note down the point.
You need to produce for me.
What is the latest?
What is the latest reference you have?
For example, 1907, 8, whatever.
Produce for me any reference where Mirza Sahib
said that now this prophecy of marriage and
Sultan Baig's death will not fulfill because family
has repented.
You need to produce me that reference and
I'm requesting you go for the date which
is the latest date for you.
And last point is this.
And you said that repentance.
Okay.
You need to tell us in your turn
what is the definition of repentance according to
Mirza Sahib.
And then you need to produce the evidence
of that repentance from Mirza Sahib about Sultan
Baig.
I'm done.
Okay.
First thing first, I think you misunderstood me.
I asked you to give me an evidence
of new prophecy from God.
You produce something from volume 11.
Have you forgotten about volume 11, page 32,
brother?
Mirza Sahib said categorically.
Volume same book, brother.
And you did not produce any new prophecy.
Please.
Secondly, you said show me Mirza Sahib where
he said that Nikah is going to can
be, it might not happen.
On the same ishtihaar which I mentioned.
Ishtihaar of 6th September 1894.
He said Quran and
then on the very two pages after he
says categorically he says Quran
My point is brother, Sultan Muhammad I said
kept quiet.
He didn't say a word about any against
Hazrat Mirza Sahib.
He stopped being friend of Christians.
That was the repentance.
The whole family stopped being against the Quran.
They stopped, they used to be against the
Holy Quran.
They stopped that.
They became, he's so pious.
I gave you example.
The mother became Ahmadi, Ahmadi Begum's mother.
Muhammadi Begum brother became Ahmadi.
They came towards Islam.
You don't call us Muslim, but we call
ourselves Muslim.
They became Muslims.
They were not friends of Christians anymore brother.
So prophecy was fulfilled and you still have
not shown me any new prophecy brother.
My question to you is how come another
important question.
How come Muhammad Begum's mother became, Ahmad Begum's
wife became Ahmadi?
Think about it brother.
How did that happen?
How come Muhammad Begum's son became Ahmadi?
Will you, I mean just to anyone, any
from the audience, if someone says anything against
your mother, will you ever, if a person
says anything against your mother, will you ever
accept that person to be your religious leader?
And if somebody says anything against your husband
and your husband dies, will you accept that
person?
Unless you find something really special.
Okay.
Very, very quickly.
I want to just quickly before Imtiaz Bhai
comes in.
A lot of the points Dr. Yahya is
raising are irrelevant.
Mother becoming Ahmadi or Qadiani or brother becoming
Qadiani.
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad's own son was not Qadiani.
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani did not read his
janaza.
He didn't go for his janaza.
So what points are you making?
Right?
These are relevant points.
Stick to the prophecy, address the prophecy.
And you know, when you say new prophecy,
the prophecy remains relevant as late as 1907
on Muhammad Begum.
Mirza Sahib was still lusting after this married
woman.
He was lusting after this married woman for
a long time, as late as 1907.
So this is the point I want you
to address when your time comes.
But over to you brother Imtiaz.
So new prophecy, he raised again that it's
not a new prophecy.
Please explain why it's a new prophecy and
why it's relevant and why it remains unfulfilled.
Because he's claiming that Sultan Muhammad repented because
he stopped being friends of Christians.
What kind of repentance is that?
Repentance is declaring, becoming a follower.
Neither Muhammad Begum nor Sultan Muhammad became the
followers of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani.
None of them.
They were not scared of him.
They were not scared of his warnings.
They would have parted ways.
No.
The first evidence of their fright would have
been what?
When Ahmad Begum died, they should have parted
ways.
They should have been terrified that this guy
is a true prophet.
He has made prophecies against us.
My father died.
We should part ways.
But what you don't tell Dr Yahya's audience
is part of the prophecy was that Sultan
Muhammad will also die within two and a
half years.
He did not.
He did not.
You're claiming they repented.
You're claiming they repented.
If that was the case, they should have
parted ways.
They should have divorced each other.
Muhammad Begum would have ran to the house
of Mirza Ghulam Qadiani and fell on his
feet and begged him to get married to
her.
None of that happened.
Just like you're bringing these points on the
side, we are also bringing these points on
the side.
All of these indicators are there.
Over to you, Imtiaz Bhai.
One second.
One second.
One second.
How much time will I get?
Because obviously, brother Adhan is spoken in the
middle.
I think I spoke for one minute.
We can take a minute extra.
You brought many, many points, brother.
I spoke for one minute.
Let me make it simple for you, inshallah,
because you and me are, inshallah, going point
by point.
Let's, inshallah, go this way.
Now it's my turn.
After that, you can respond to my point.
And at the end, you can take a
note.
You can take a note.
If you want to respond to any of
Adnan Bhai's points, inshallah, you will be given
time.
No problem.
I'll give you time.
No problem.
I might forget.
Can I quickly respond to Adnan Bhai?
Adnan Bhai, I think you haven't read the
prophecy yourself.
That's why you're raising those points.
I have read it.
It's my turn, brother.
Please.
But I have read it.
Yes, go on.
I said, I think.
Maybe my thinking might be wrong.
Okay.
Okay.
Now, brother, the thing is, anyone who read
the prophecy, why I said that, he will
never bring this point that Mohammadi Begum, Sultan
Muhammad should have divorced Mohammadi Begum.
Why?
Because in the prophecy, she was going to
come back to Hazrat Mirza Sahib, not because
of divorce, not at all.
She was supposed to come back after the
death of Sultan Muhammad.
Important point, please.
Secondly, why Sultan Muhammad didn't die?
It is part of the prophecy that once
the family will repent, they will be under
the blessing of God.
That's why Sultan Muhammad did not die.
Mirza Sahib explained that in that, I just
showed you that, you know, that article.
Very, just one quickly, brother.
I'm really sorry to say that, you know,
when you guys, brother, bring things like lust
and this, that, we should be very careful.
Hazrat Mirza Sahib said, judge me, judge me
and my prophecy according to Minhaj-e-Nabuwa.
Those allegations, they have been brought against other
prophets, brothers.
They, look at the atheists, what they do.
We shouldn't be doing that.
Especially when, when Hazrat Mirza Sahib explained himself,
I'm talking, I'm reading from Ruhan-e-Ikhsan,
page 288.
He said, very
important point.
Then I think anyone will stop saying lust
after this.
He says, when I prophesize, the girl was
only eight and nine year old.
How can be any lust involved in eight
and nine year old?
He's saying, think about it, brothers.
I'll explain.
Yeah, before brother Imtiaz comes in very quickly.
The context of the prophecy is the father
of Muhammad-e-Begum came to Mirza Ghulam
Ahmad Qadiani to get his signature on a
land deed.
And in return, Mirza Sahib requested that you
give your daughter to me.
Okay.
This is why we bring the lust in.
Okay.
We don't accept Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani's explanations
and his twists and his spins on this
matter.
So that's the response very quickly.
Over to you, Imtiaz Bhai.
Okay.
Inshallah, brother Yahya.
Now, we'll, inshallah, we'll stick to the point,
both of us, inshallah.
Okay.
So now, first of all, you raised the
question to me.
You said that prove to us a new
ilham.
Brother Yahya, please listen the point very carefully.
In 1896, I have given you reference already.
When Mirza Sahib is saying, I am not
saying this from my own.
I'm saying this after receiving the news from
Allah.
Okay.
I've gave you the reference already.
That was 1896.
Now you need to tell me, no, wait,
wait, wait, wait.
Now you, now you need to, I give
the reference again.
Okay.
I give you again.
Page number.
Yeah, no problem.
I give you again.
No problem.
So now you need to tell us if
a prophet of Allah says to the public
that I am giving you a news and
I am giving you this news.
And because this is in the Arabic, he
said, I don't say this.
This is called the emphasis.
It is the highly emphatic way of saying
something Arabic.
He said that I am not saying this
from my own.
I'm saying this only after this only is
in the Arabic.
I am saying this only after Allah has
given me this news.
When in 1896.
Now you need to address this question in
your turn.
If a prophet of Allah says to the
public that I'm giving you this news and
I'm giving you this news only after Allah
gave me this news.
What does that mean?
If not revelation, you need to address this
point.
Okay.
Point number two, I asked you a very
specific question in the previous turn, and you
gave me absolutely wrong answer.
The question was, what was the actual prophecy
in the language of Mirza Sahib?
What was the subject itself of the prophecy?
I will give you the reference.
Mirza Sahib has clearly said that the subject
matter of the prophecy is my marriage with
Mohammadi Begum.
Sultan begs death or Ahmad begs death.
They are the obstacles.
They are the Mawane.
Allah will remove all of those obstacles to
fulfill the Nafs-e-Pishin Goyi.
And what is Nafs-e-Pishin Goyi?
His marriage to Mohammadi Begum.
It is not death of Sultan.
It is not death of Ahmad because these
two people, they were obstacles.
Okay.
They are not the actual prophecy.
Okay.
And I will give you reference on this
one.
Now, my last point is this.
Now, because everything has been on one subject
and that is the repentance of the family.
With regard to the issue of repentance, please
take note because you need to answer what
I'm going to say now.
Please take note.
It's very important.
Please take note.
Okay.
With regard to the issue of repentance, you
need to tell me three things.
Please take note.
Number one, if family has repented in 1892,
why Mirza Sahib kept insisting on this prophecy
up till his death?
And the latest reference I have is 1907.
That is with regard to repentance.
Point number two with regard to repentance.
What was the fault or the sin of
Sultan Baig according to the word of Mirza
Sahib?
His sin or his fault was he married
to Mohammadi Begum despite he was being warned
with all of these warnings.
So, this was the jurm or the sin
and if you need reference, I can give
you.
Now, if you are going to quote the
repentance, Mirza Sahib has clearly said.
I have the references.
If you ask, I'll give you that the
repentance is that whatever jurm or sin you
have committed, you need to repent back.
Now, what was the jurm of Sultan Baig?
He married with Mohammadi Begum.
So, the repentance will be he must divorce
Mohammadi Begum because this was the sin and
I have all the references.
So, again, just to recap with regard to
repentance, we are going to discuss in the
next turn three points.
Number one, if family has repented in 1892,
why Mirza kept prophesying this in the public,
in the newspapers, in the court, outside of
the court of law up till 1907, this
used to be the case.
And number two, what was the sin of
Sultan Baig?
I claim according to Mirza his sin was
he married to Mohammadi Begum.
So, repentance should be he must divorce him.
Okay.
And this and last point, according to Mirza
Sahib, pay attention, according to Mirza Sahib, this
repentance will only cause delay, delay.
He said that he clearly said, I will
give you reference that any repentance of the
family can only cause the delay.
It cannot cancel the matter.
When you address the point of repentance, you
need to address this.
Okay.
My time.
Yeah.
Okay.
Further, once again, I'm really sorry to say
you haven't read the prophecy properly.
You said that the Nafs-e-Peshigui was
marriage to Mohammadi Begum.
Right.
Go to Ruhani Khaza in Jails 22.
And Mirza Sahib has written, he says, was
also the death of Sultan Muhammad.
And that was the main point because after
that, that was going to be decisive factor
whether Mohammadi Begum is going to come back
or not.
If he repent, she's not coming back.
Okay.
Then secondly, on in Volume 11, page 31,
Huzoor says, you said Nafs-e-Peshigui was
only Mohammadi Begum's marriage.
False.
So Nafs-e-Peshigui was what?
Damar death.
So please correct yourself.
Secondly, you said, what was the mistake of
Damar Damar?
Of course, it was a mistake.
Promised Messiah-ul-Islam tried to explain to
them that don't do this because Allah has
told me that if you do this, then
Ahmad Begum will die and Sultan Muhammad will
die.
He didn't listen to it.
That's fine.
And then the first thing happened, Ahmad Beg
passed away six months after the marriage.
Now, Promised Messiah has never ever written in
this book that if the prophecy has to
be fulfilled in a way that the Sultan
Muhammad has to now divorce Muhammad-e-Begum
so that I can get married.
He never said that.
Okay.
And another thing, you said that what was
their mistake?
Promised Messiah-ul-Islam in Ayn-e-Kamalat
-e-Islam, page 285, very categorically says that
these people, they are against Islam.
They are against Holy Quran.
And they are asking some Nishan, a prophecy
from me.
Okay.
So that was their mistake.
They were against Islam.
They were against Christians.
That's why the first news was published in
Nur-e-Shan.
You said that if he repented, then what
was the other one?
The phone.
I think I answered all your questions.
Your time's up here.
Okay.
Very quickly, I just want to raise quick
points before we move on to Imtiaz Bhai.
When you claim they were against Islam or
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani was saying they were
against Islam, what Islam was he talking about?
He was talking about his own prophecies.
Okay.
You don't want me to continue?
Imtiaz Bhai, you want to come back?
Okay.
You want to speak?
Okay.
Go ahead.
Okay.
I just want, Inshallah, to keep you on
the case.
I have to clarify.
Brother Adnan, you're wrong again.
He was, because this prophecy, I'm really sorry
to interrupt you, but Promised Messiah did this
prophecy in 1886.
Remember, in 1886, he was not claiming to
be Imam Mahdi.
He was not claiming to be Promised Messiah.
So we were talking about Islam, if you
know what I mean.
Okay.
I was going to mention a lot of
things, but I'm going to leave them for
Imtiaz Bhai.
I have a lot of things to say,
but I'm going to go to Imtiaz Bhai.
Okay.
Brother Yahya, please take note of those points
you did not address.
Point number one, you asked me that show
me when Allah said him.
I quoted you from 1896.
Birza Sahib took an oath and then he
said that I am only...
Birza, you didn't give me page number.
Page number.
Okay.
Let me give it to you.
No problem.
No problem.
So my time is not, I just want
to give the reference.
Yeah, give me page number, it's fine.
No problem.
No problem.
So this is, brother Yahya, this is Injam
Atam is the main title.
Ruhani Khazain, volume 11, page number 223.
Okay.
Yes, 223.
And second thing is that after that, I
will bring you, because I have more revelation
as well here with regard to that.
He was quoting Allah.
But inshallah, we go point by point.
Okay.
So you can respond to this one and
listen to my question, but you need to
respond.
Because you raised...
Brother, brother, brother, one second.
Injam Atam hasn't got the page 223.
Okay.
Okay.
After I see it, I give you a
pen.
Give me one second.
It may be mixing up.
I give you no problem.
It is on me.
It is on me because I was, I
was reading exactly from the book.
I give you, just give me one second.
Let me just complete my point.
So obviously the reason, that's the reason I've
responded because I want to see your reference
before I respond.
I will give you, I will just give
you one second.
Okay.
So now first I want to, so please
note down the point because you're, I will
give you the, it is my obligation to
give you the reference.
Okay.
Now you raise an allegation and you raise
a big point.
You said that Allah did not give him
any news after original revelation.
And I need to produce something.
I have produced from 1896 when Mirza under
oath, he took an oath first.
And then he said that I am saying
this only after Allah has told me.
And then he clearly quoted that this matter
has not finished.
So I have answered your question that he
was quoting Allah, not his Ijtihad.
Now I will give you the reference for
this one.
Now, second point is, which you did not
address.
You need to address this point as well.
I will give you a reference before you
will begin your turn.
The result of repentance will be only delay,
delay, not complete cancellation of the death and
marriage delay.
Okay.
I will give you the reference on this
one as well.
So you need to address these very important
points.
Okay.
Now let's come to what you have said,
but what I need to address number one,
you said that I am misquoting something because
the actual subject matter of the prophecy was
not marriage of Muhammad Begum.
Okay.
Now I'm going to give you a reference,
please note it down.
Give me one second.
Okay.
So it is Majmua Ishtiharat and I have
old edition and it has volume two, page
43, September 1894.
Let me read the wording.
Now listen, next point carefully, you need to
respond.
So, and this, I have already given the
reference in this reference.
He's saying that the subject matter of the
prophecy is my marriage with this woman.
And this is unchangeable destiny.
It can never be canceled because regarding this
point, what was the point?
His marriage with this lady, because regarding this
point, there is a sentence in the revelation,
which says, the words of Allah don't change.
Then he says, it means, this thing will
not change.
And then he says, if this thing will
be changed, then the Kalam of Allah will
become false.
This was the Ishtihar.
Your time is up.
But one thing I just clarified to make
it clear for the audience here, Mirza is
saying that the subject matter of the prophecy
is that I will get married to this
woman called Muhammadi Begum.
And this cannot change because Allah has told
me so.
And then he quotes the Quran that Allah's
words cannot change.
So that's the reference.
Dr. Yahya, can you address it directly?
Allah tells Mirza from Wahi that she will
be married to him, which never happened.
And then Mirza says that these words of
Allah will not change, just like the Quran
says Allah's words cannot change.
What happened?
Now, brother, it's very important to understand a
few things.
First of all, you said that Promised Islam
in Volume 11 said that this is the
oath.
He did not say it's a new revelation.
He said this is the prophecy from 1886.
He didn't say it's from 1896.
So you have either made a mistake or
you misquoted.
Now, you said that there's only result of
the repentance is only delay.
OK, I have showed you, Promised Islam did
say that it will it can be delayed
because it's a Taqdeer-e-Mualliq.
And Taqdeer-e-Mualliq can only turn into
is going to turn into Taqdeer-e-Mubrim
once Sultan Muhammad, he does Taqzeeb.
He goes against Promised Islam.
He goes against Islam.
He didn't do that.
So that time delay, obviously, as you admit
that the Promised Islam said it will be
delayed.
It got so delayed.
Why?
Because we you could not produce further even
one single statement from Sultan Muhammad.
Very important that he did Taqzeeb of Mirza
Sahib from 1892 to 908.
And because he didn't do any Taqzeeb, he
didn't do any say anything against Hazrat Mirza
Sahib.
Hazrat Mirza Sahib in Ruhani Khazain, page 570
said, categorically, that he said that this, yes,
it was, it was said, Allah did tell
me that his Nikkah had been with me
on the sky by Allah.
But he said it is true.
He said, but it was conditional.
And the condition was that if they do
Tauba, then obviously it will change.
And he said, so when that family fulfilled
that condition, why he said that?
Why he said that?
I told you, Sultan Muhammad did not say
even one word from his mouth.
If Sultan Muhammad has said, he could have
said even either in favor of Hazrat Mirza
Sahib, then he would have said, he said
in favor.
So it's totally, the situation is completely changed.
He didn't do that.
And he didn't say anything against Hazrat Mirza
Sahib.
That's why Hazrat Mirza Sahib kept his word.
If he says anything against me, against Islam,
then Allah's Taqdeer will come back and prophecy
will be fulfilled according to what Allah told
him.
Important thing.
Very important brothers.
Prophecy has been fulfilled according to 100%
words of Allah.
Allah said, when these people will do bad
deeds, I will kill them gradually.
And once they do good deed, I will
be, they will be under my Rahmah.
That's the prophecy.
The prophecy was, if they do tawbah, they
will be, then he said, prophecy has been
fulfilled because he did tawbah and that's why
they are under Rahmah.
Prophecy said, the dogs will
still keep on barking and prophecy has been
fulfilled.
We still see people talking about such a
great prophecy, which has been fulfilled 100%.
People still talk about it and people only
show half part, quarter part.
They don't show public the full picture.
Your time's up.
Brother Rashid, how much time he took this
time?
Three minutes.
Okay.
Just give me three minutes.
Okay.
So now, brother Yahya, even though it was
my obligation to give you the reference, but
because you already have explained, so you have
accepted that text already, in which I quoted
that the prophet of Allah, you said he
did not take an oath.
I told you, I said, he said, And
who is Khuda?
The Khuda who has sent Prophet Muhammad, peace
be upon him, in this dunya.
He said this Khuda ki Qasam, he did
take an oath.
So please don't change this thing.
Okay.
I asked you a particular question.
You did not answer.
Can you confirm?
Can you confirm?
One second.
Can you confirm that he took an oath?
Just one second.
Can you confirm he took an oath?
Dr. Yahya.
Adnan, my question was not that whether he
took oath or not.
My question was, did he take an oath?
Dr. Yahya, please.
Sorry.
Sorry.
You said in your turn, he did not
take an oath.
We have it there that he took an
oath.
I didn't say that.
You said it.
What oath?
Are you not listening to yourself?
New prophecy.
Wait, wait.
In your time.
In your time.
People can see inshallah no problem.
Of course.
Of course.
Okay.
So I have already clarified that Mirza did
say by taking an oath and then he
further said, I am only saying this after
Allah has informed me.
What is it if not revelation?
If a prophet of Allah saying in the
public these words, what it would be considered,
you have not answered the question.
Okay.
Number one.
Number two.
I have given you the reference already from
the second volume, old edition.
I gave you already the reference.
Okay.
That the subject matter of the prophecy is
his marriage with Muhammadi Begum.
And please listen carefully.
This is the thing he's saying.
These are the kalimat of Allah.
This is the unchangeable destiny.
This thing is the kalimat of Allah and
unchangeable destiny.
Now brother Yahya, if this marriage does not
take place, you have to admit today in
the public that the world of Allah did
change.
And destiny, unchangeable destiny did change.
Now listen carefully.
You need to, you, you made a claim.
You made a claim that Nafs-e-Pishingoi
or subject matter of the prophecy is not
the, it's some, you need to give me
the reference.
What is the Nafs-e-Pishingoi?
Give me the reference with the clear word.
Nafs-e-Pishingoi, what it is?
Give me the reference.
Lastly, you quoted, you quoted a reference in
which, you know, Mirza Sahib is giving the
different parts of the prophecy.
Guess what?
I'm going to reveal today Mirza was playing
the trick.
Listen very carefully.
When he gave the actual prophecy, he first
mentioned the death of Sultan Baig and then
he mentioned the death of father.
But when the death of Sultan Baig did
not happen and the death of Ahmed Baig
already happened, he changed the sequence of the
prophecy.
He started to say the death of Ahmed
Baig first and the death of Sultan Baig
after, which was a trick he was playing
to give impression to the people, the prophecy
is being fulfilled in a chronological order.
There was a trick.
I have the reference if you like.
Okay, now there are only two points you
need to address.
I'm not saying ten of things.
Let me summarize.
Point number one, I gave you the reference
of Nafs-e-Pishingoi.
That was marriage with Muhammad-e-Begum and
this was the Kalimat of Allah.
This was unchangeable destiny.
This did not happen.
Mirza said that if this will not happen,
the Kalimat of Allah will become Batil.
I want you to address this one and
in response to this, you need to give
me the reference of Nafs-e-Pishingoi from
something else.
Okay, your time is up.
Just 30 seconds.
So this was point number one and point
number two, you still have not answered that
if matter has finished in 1892, why Mirza
is kept saying this up till 1907.
You just quoted a reference of 1907.
He said, It proves my point.
I challenge you brother Yahya.
I challenge you.
Mirza always said this that the repentance of
the family can only cause the delay, not
cancellation.
These are only two points you need to
address.
Please address them directly.
Okay, now first of all Nafs-e-Pishingoi.
Brother, I told you, write it down please.
I got the reference.
You know, like you keep on saying I
got the reference.
I got references.
My table is full of references.
Don't worry about references.
Now, volume 11, page 31.
Nafs-e-Pishingoi, Damad Ahmed-e-Begki.
Right?
So try to understand brother.
Prophecy, it was like a jigsaw.
Nafs-e-Pishingoi has got two parts.
First important part, Sultan Beg has to do
Taqzeem.
He has to die.
And only then second part of Nafs-e
-Pishingoi, which is marriage, is going to take
place.
Please correct yourself.
Secondly, you said a new prophecy has been
dealt with.
If marriage didn't take place, prophecy did not
fulfill.
Marriage was only going to take place, according
to the prophecy, if Sultan Muhammad dies.
Sultan Muhammad did not do Taqzeem.
He didn't.
He kept quiet.
So that's the reason.
Because he didn't do Taqzeem and that's why
Allah gave him, according to prophecy.
He was under the Rahma of God.
He didn't die.
So that's why Muhammad-e-Begum didn't come
back to marry Hazrat Mirza Sahib.
This is according to the prophecy.
Then you said, brother, I'm really sorry.
May Allah guide you.
And please don't misrepresent things.
You said, Mirza Sahib said that first Sultan
Beg will die.
Then Ahmad Beg will die.
I challenge you.
I challenge you where Mirza Sahib has said,
show me anyway.
Mirza Sahib said Sultan Muhammad will die within
two and a half years.
And Ahmad Beg will die within three years.
But he did not say first this will
happen, you know, 100% and that will
happen.
It was two separate things.
You try to give people this wrong impression.
As if Mirza Sahib said Sultan Muhammad will
die first.
No, I didn't say that.
Give me reference.
Okay.
Then 1900.
Time is up.
One small thing.
30 seconds gone.
Hazrat Mirza Sahib in volume 22, page 570.
He said, you said, show me somewhere where
he said it.
You said, show me where he said, it's
finished.
Read is in simple Urdu, brother.
Why?
Because of that situation.
When he said, because I said, because he
didn't say your time is up.
Okay.
Yeah.
Inshallah.
Let's go.
Inshallah.
Point by point.
Okay.
Please keep it to two minutes, guys, because
otherwise.
Inshallah.
Inshallah.
So point number one was Nafs-e-Pishin
-Goi.
Okay.
So I gave the Nafs-e-Pishin-Goi
reference already.
So allegation was moved from myself.
So I gave, because I said Nafs-e
-Pishin-Goi was marriage with Mohammadi Begum.
I gave the reference.
So I clarified myself.
No allegation on me.
You said the Nafs-e-Pishin-Goi is
Sultan Beg's death.
You gave the reference.
No allegation on you.
Both of us are on the equal terms
now.
Now there's one Nafs-e-Pishin-Goi subject
matter of the prophecy are now two things.
Death of Sultan Beg and in my reference
of marriage with Mohammadi Begum.
Now when it comes to your turn, please
take a note.
You need to address the following point.
Mirza Sahib said that if this thing, his
marriage with Mohammadi Begum, if this thing becomes
cancelled, the Kalam of Allah will become Batil.
Now we all know this thing did cancel.
There was no marriage with Mohammadi Begum.
So are you willing to say according to
what Mirza said that the Kalam of Allah
has become Batil?
This is the point you need to address
in your turn.
Then you said to me, you said that,
you know that you're saying about Sultan Beg.
Listen very carefully.
You're saying that why Sultan Beg did not
even make one statement.
Listen very carefully.
He was an employee in the army.
Okay.
And anybody with a reasonable intellect can understand
why would he would come in this.
And we all know Mirza says about himself
that I am a planted plant of the
British government.
This is what Mirza said.
Now if somebody's employee in the army, how
can he go in public to make all
of these things?
Number one.
Number two, you are not addressing the point.
The Jurm, the sin of Sultan Beg according
to Mirza himself.
I can give you a reference if you
like.
It was marriage with Mohammadi Begum.
Repentance means that whatever sin you are committing,
you come back from that sin and it
did not happen.
And then you are saying, please just say,
what do you mean?
If somebody has repented from the sin, it
has to be cancelled.
Why it is called delay?
Because you cannot produce any reference in which
Mirza did not use the word delay.
At the reference you read, it also says,
delay is already there.
So my point is proven.
The repentance of the family can only cause
delay, not cancellation.
And then last point, InshaAllah, very quickly.
You said that I made an allegation on
Mirza.
This is not my character.
Listen to the reference very carefully.
When this prophecy was given, and let me
give you the exact date.
So you don't need to ask me the
reference again.
So when this was given, and let me
give you the reference.
Okay, it is Majmua Ishtihara, which is the
public announcement.
New edition, volume one, page 177 and 178.
Listen carefully.
Okay, he said that if Mohammadi Begum gets
married to somebody else, the husband of this
woman will die within two and a half
years, and the father will die within three
years.
So not only he mentioned Sultan Beg first
and Ahmad Beg second, number one and number
two.
It makes logical sense because the time limit
of Sultan Beg is two and a half
years, which comes before three years.
But when he quoted this prophecy, the reference
is Ruhani Khazain, volume six, page 376.
Okay, it's been four minutes.
So you guys are going twice over the
limit now.
And by the way, how long does this
to and fro go on?
I'm almost done.
I'm almost done.
In this one, he said number one, Mirza
Ahmad Beg dies within three years.
Number two, Sultan Beg.
You see, in this one, he has changed
the sequence.
In the original prophecy, Sultan Beg was first,
Ahmad Beg was second.
When he went in an order to tell
people, he gave a different impression.
He changed the order.
This one, I point out.
Okay.
You can have four minutes as well.
Okay.
Okay.
One second.
One second.
A couple of things.
Has he produced a reference of the order
or not?
Dr. Yahya is not responding for some reason.
Has he produced the reference?
It's my turn and I will respond to
that.
Has he produced the reference or not?
It's my turn and I will respond to
that.
Yes, we are asking for clarification.
Yeah, because his claim is wrong.
Mirza Sahib never ever claimed.
Dr. Yahya, you challenged him on a few
things.
He has shown you repeatedly that your challenges
are vain.
You're just pretending.
Don't worry about it.
Maybe worry about it.
Public is listening.
Now, you challenged him on a reference.
Produce a reference of the order where he
mentions the husband and then the father.
Did he produce that reference or not?
I challenge him to produce a reference where
he says categorically that it is must that
husband will die first.
Husband will die first.
Mirza Sahib wrote that...
Did you not listen?
Did you not listen?
Please, please, please.
Let me explain now.
It's my turn.
Please.
Okay, so you want to start your two
minutes now or you want to start later?
No, sorry.
This is the wrong side.
Your time starts now.
Even Imtiaz Sahib, when he produced the reference,
he can read the reference again.
It does not say that husband will die
first and father will die after.
He said if marriage takes place, husband will
die within two and a half years.
Father will die within three years.
It didn't say who is first, who is
second.
Right, your time starts now.
So if you can respond to what Imtiaz
bhai said, I think that'll be good.
Okay, JazakAllah.
Now, we're going back to Nafs-e-Peshgul
again.
There are two things, death and marriage, of
course.
Everyone knows there are two things, death and
marriage.
My question to you is, brother Imtiaz, which
one is supposed to happen first?
Death or marriage?
Because if marriage is going to happen afterwards,
then death has to happen before.
And that's the death of Sultan Muhammad.
And according to the prophecy, because Sultan Muhammad,
he didn't do taqzeeb, he didn't say anything
against the against Messiah-ul-Islam, that time
period was extended as promised Messiah-ul-Islam
himself said that.
Why he said that?
He said because both of them, Sultan Muhammad
and Ahmed Beg, they were under the same
sword.
One of them has been killed.
So obviously, that effect had gone to the
second person.
He's scared now.
Now, that one question, please tell us what's
going to happen first, according to the prophecy.
Secondly, he said, Sir, I'm categorically, I'm saying
again and again, God's words in the prophecy
have been fulfilled 100%.
And you said it yourself that Mirza sahib
has written the prophecy.
And this is that prophecy, prophecy of the
family of Ahmed Beg, where it has been
fulfilled according to the words of God.
What were the words of God?
It says, I will read it again.
It says very clearly on this word that
Allah said that I will not kill them
again and again.
I will not kill them all of a
sudden.
He said, I will kill them gradually and
I will kill them so that they repent.
So according to the prophecy, the prophecy's words
have been fulfilled.
Prophecy says to be, to be.
Oh, woman, do tauba, do tauba.
When fulfilled, that woman, even the family, Muhammad
Begum's mother became Ahmed Beg.
Alhamdulillah.
OK, your time's up.
Yeah, your time's up.
Can you talk to me more time?
OK, go ahead.
Munsir, you want to take over moderation?
I'm just going to step out for a
bit.
That's fine.
Now, one more thing.
You just said, brother, please don't go into
stories.
Don't go into stories.
British, British army and good story, good story.
But British were not that cruel nation.
We live in the UK.
You live in Australia.
These people, these nations, they don't mind if
in a religious term, some people talk to
each other or they go against each other.
So please, that's a good story.
Good try.
Doesn't work.
OK, now your time is already brother.
I give you.
OK, let's let's let's listen to brother.
Can I request one thing?
This gentleman, Dr. Yahya, has still not addressed
the point, which is unfair, which is unjust.
Mirza said, I will get married to this
woman.
Can you all hear me?
Yeah.
Can you all hear me?
We can.
We can continue.
Can you hear me?
Can you hear me?
We can hear you.
Maybe you cannot hear us.
Mirza said, I will get married to this
woman.
And this is from God.
These are words of God.
Can you hear me now?
Yes, yes.
Can you hear me now?
Yes, brother.
Yes, we can.
We can.
OK, Mirza said, I will get married to
this woman as the word of God states
clearly.
Mirza revealed that he received a revelation and
he claimed this is the word of God
and God's word cannot change.
Mohammadi Begum never got married to Mirza.
Did God change his word?
A direct question to you.
Before we go to Imtiaz, can you answer
that question?
Yeah, of course.
Mohammadi Begum did not get married to Mirza
as according to the prophecy.
If Mohammadi Begum got married to Mirza, that
would be against the prophecy.
Why?
Why?
Prophecy says once those people repent, they will
be under the rahma of God.
Prophecy says Mohammadi Begum was supposed to come
back after the death of his husband.
And because husband didn't do taqzeeb, he didn't
say anything against Islam.
He didn't say anything against Mirza Sahib.
According to prophecy, he, Mohammadi Begum, because he
didn't die, according to prophecy, Mohammadi Begum was
only going to come back after his death.
If I can just remind Dr Yahya, the
question is not about all of these things,
background details that you're giving.
The prophecy, the question is asked, did God's
decree change?
Did God's words change because the marriage did
not take place?
Marriage did not take place.
So you need to answer whether the God's
word, his decree changed.
Yeah.
Brother, shall I answer?
That's the beauty of this prophecy, brother.
When prophecy did not fulfill one way, God
fulfilled it another way.
And that was 100% according to the
word of God.
OK, you're awesome.
With all due respect, with all due respect,
I'm going to turn to Mohammed Imtiaz to
continue.
It's obviously clear to everyone that is listening
or to our viewers, you're missing the big
elephant in the room and addressing something else.
Because the question that is asked is about
the statement Mirza Saad made on this very
topic, that it is a divine decree that
marriage will happen.
If the marriage doesn't happen, then God's decree
has changed.
But God doesn't change the decrees.
So obviously, we don't need to ask you
that question.
It is evidently obvious.
We were only giving you opportunity to defend.
And obviously, you're going to fail to defend
until the Yawm al-Qiyamah, until Ahmadi community
ever exists in the world.
It is quite clear.
It's evidently clear.
You can try all these red herrings and
so on and so forth.
That's not how intellectual academic discussions like this
should take place.
You should simply just say, yes, the divine
decree changed because he did not get married.
But of course, you don't have the intellectual
sincerity to admit that.
Because otherwise, your prophet will be a false
prophet.
So I'm going to continue with Mohammed Imtiaz.
I'm not involved in this debate.
So Mohammed Imtiaz can continue.
No, no, you don't have to.
Mohammed Imtiaz, please continue.
Okay, okay.
First of all, let me make it a
clear statement.
In my discussion so far with Dr. Yahya,
I cannot remember a single question that was
directed at me and I did not answer.
And if I am saying it falsely, please,
in your turn, bring that question.
Inshallah.
Today, I want to answer any single question
on this topic.
Inshallah.
Now, I come to responding to your point.
I already gave you the reference from when
original prophecy was prophesized.
Ahmed Beg was mentioned second.
Sultan Beg was mentioned first.
And when Mirza made the sixth point, because
by that time, listen carefully, by that time,
Sultan Beg, sorry, Ahmed Beg has already died.
So in this one, the sequence has been
changed.
It is not that he has to say
this.
He has done this clearly.
In the original prophecy, first Sultan Beg, then
Ahmed Beg.
And when Ahmed Beg has died, now the
sequence has become first Ahmed Beg, then Sultan
Beg.
Secondly, every person with sense can see this.
If somebody is dying in two and a
half years and somebody dying in three years,
who should be first?
It's very simple.
Very simple math.
Okay.
There was one point.
Second point is, he asked me a question.
He said that Muhammad Imtiaz tell me what
will happen first, death of Sultan Beg or
the marriage of Muhammad Begum.
Alhamdulillah, this is how the Muslim answered the
question in a direct way.
So I have quoted you the reference.
I have given you the reference that according
to Mirza, when he used these words that
if this will not happen, the Kalam of
Allah will become false.
In this reference, he only mentioned the marriage
of Muhammad Begum.
In this reference, he did not mention anything
about Sultan Beg.
You need to address this particular reference, okay,
in which the marriage of Muhammad Begum has
been declared as the subject matter of the
prophecy.
You need to address this particular reference.
Now, second thing is that it's very interesting
that you are saying again and again about
Sultan Beg that why you are quoting Muhammad
Imtiaz, the stories of the British, etc.
Okay, when you guys are quoting the stories
or the relatives of, you know, they become,
you know, if they repented, the son of
Muhammad Begum become this one and this family.
What are they?
Are they not the stories?
So use the same scale, brother.
Okay, next point is, and this is the
actual point.
I am repeating these things for the last
time.
You are not addressing throughout your turn.
Listen very carefully.
On the matter of repentance, please address these
four things.
Number one, I challenge you.
Mirza always said that repentance will only cause
delay, not cancellation.
If you challenge my position, please in your
turn, throw challenge at me.
And number two, when family has repented in
1892, you need to explain why Mirza kept
prophesying this marriage and the death of Sultan
Beg up till 1907.
You need to explain this to us.
Point number three, okay, you need to tell
us that what was the sin of Sultan
Beg?
I have given you a challenge.
Mirza himself said that his sin is he
married with Muhammad Begum.
Everybody knows and Mirza accepts this principle.
Repentance is called whatever sin you have committed,
you repent from that sin.
So the sin was marrying Muhammad Begum.
Repentance would be divorce Muhammad Begum.
Otherwise, there's no repentance or you need to
tell us today from any Islamic tradition that
repentance is fine without committing the sin.
You need to tell us this today in
very clear terms.
Inshallah, last point and then I am done.
My last point is you said in your
turn, you said that if this marriage, please
listen carefully, if this marriage will take place,
this will be against the prophecy.
This was your wording, quote to quote.
Now answer my direct question.
If marriage will cause failure of the prophecy,
why Mirza kept prophesying up till 1907?
You need to address this point.
Now, how many minutes is taken, brother?
Because he's done 14 points.
I did four points by counting.
You did 14 points, brother.
Okay, go ahead.
Take your time.
Take your time.
Thank you.
Take your time.
Okay.
First of all, you said any single question,
brother, any question about this prophecy was welcome.
Throw the question.
I will give you answer, Inshallah.
Right.
Ahmed Beg, he said sequence, Mirza's sequence changed.
No, Mirza sahib did not change the sequence.
Mirza sahib from the very day, the first
day, when he prophesies about the duration, he
said that the husband will die within two
and a half years and father will die
within three years.
He did not say that categorically husband will
die first.
That was my question.
You have failed to bring any reference.
You have completely failed.
Mirza sahib didn't say this is going to
be sequenced.
Secondly, you said...
Look, look, I can't.
Wait, wait, wait, please, please.
No, no, let him continue.
I understand, but this is so bad.
It's unbelievable.
Let the audience enjoy this.
People are listening, don't worry.
Let him continue.
So, I'm so...
I don't know where the brain cells are.
Never mind.
Never mind.
Alhamdulillah.
Let the audience enjoy all this.
How is the sequence any different when the
husband is to die first within two and
a half years and the father in three
years?
Show me the reference.
There's no categorical reference.
It's Ahmadi Mathematics.
We can talk about it later.
Please continue.
I want you to continue.
Continue, please.
Okay, Jazakallah, Jazakallah.
Now, you said Nafs-e-Peshgoi is Muhammad
-e-Begum.
Brother, how many times I have to show
you the reference from page 31 of Punjabi
Atam?
Mirza Sahib called both factors, both things as
Nafs-e-Peshgoi.
He said there are two juz.
I will explain to you.
Two juz, two.
First was father death.
Second juz, he said has got two parts.
And that's why Nafs-e-Peshgoi sometimes he
refers to marriage with Muhammad-e-Begum.
Other times he refers to the husband death.
Why?
Because they were linked to each other.
Try to understand.
And the important thing is the first thing
which was bound to happen, which was linked
to the second.
First thing has to happen was husband death.
So that's why Nafs-e-Peshgoi, I showed
you so many times.
How many times I have to show you?
People can judge themselves.
I have answered the next question so many
times.
I told you that God word has not
changed.
The prophecy has been fulfilled 100% within
the words of God.
Allah said that this family, when they will
do taqzeeb, I will kill them gradually.
And that's what happened.
Ahmed-e-Beg died.
Other people died.
Because of that, when these people got scared,
then the second part, obviously part of the
same prophecy, Allah says they will come under
rahma.
Allah's rahma is greater than everything according to
the holy Quran.
So Allah obviously took them under rahma.
And that's the reason we say the prophecy
was fulfilled according to prophecy.
Now, then you said in this reference, you're
saying to me, brother, you said you told
the whole people, the whole audience, this prophecy
started from 1886, continued up to 1907.
You can't rely on one reference, one reference,
one reference.
You have to look at the whole picture
like good Muslims.
Look at the whole picture.
Not just one reference.
Then you said Muhammad-e-Begum, you know,
I said you're telling stories about British.
You said I was telling stories about Muhammad
-e-Begum's son and father.
Brother, that is not a story.
It's a fact.
They both became empty.
It's not a story.
It's a fact.
Then Mirza Sahib said that it will go
delayed.
Always say delayed.
No, I showed you the reference.
Ruhani Khazain, Volume 22, page 570, where he
says, Nikah fisikh ho gaya, ya takheer mein
pad gaya.
So he said fisikh ho gaya and ya
takheer mein pad gaya explained to you.
Why he said that?
Because Sultan Muhammad, he kept quiet.
He didn't say a good thing about Mirza
Sahib or bad thing against Mirza Sahib.
So Mirza Sahib covered both things, right?
Now, what was the sin of Sultan Beg?
How many times I have to say to
you brother?
Same answer.
You asked the same question.
I have to give you the same answer.
Sultan Beg, yes, his sin was that he
was stopped.
He was asked not to marry Muhammad-e
-Begum.
But after the marriage, that is very important
point.
After the marriage, first of all, Hazrat Mirza
Sahib never ever wanted to go this prophecy
outside.
He wanted this to be within the family.
He said it's a family matter.
Secondly, after the, you know, what was the
sin?
When he got married, marriage took place.
Now we have to go according to prophecy,
not from your word, sir.
Prophecy says she will only come back once
the husband dies.
And husband didn't die because he didn't say
anything against Islam.
Didn't say anything against Mirza Sahib.
And his sin was he was friends with
Christian.
He was against Islam.
He repented from that.
That's the reason his son became Ahmadi Muslim.
Then any Islam, then he said against the
prophecy.
Why against the prophecy?
Sorry, I missed the last point.
But anyway, I think, last point, brother.
You said that why the words were different
than something different happened.
That's why we say to you from the
very beginning, my last point.
Very beginning, brothers, we have to talk about
the Asul first.
Asul, what happened to former Yunus al-Islam.
What happened to Hazrat Nuh al-Islam?
Why words in the Holy Quran were different
and Hazrat Nuh understood differently.
And just to remind you, Promised Messiah was
not told off by God.
But Hazrat Nuh al-Islam was told off
by the God.
Promised Messiah was not punished by God.
Hazrat Yunus al-Islam was punished by God.
That's why he had to he had to
pray.
La ilaha illa anta subhanaka inni kuntu min
az-zalimeen.
So remember, brother, we have to judge these
prophecies according to the Holy Quran, according to
Minhaj-e-Nabuwa, and according to that, this
prophecy of Mohammadi Begum has been fulfilled 100
percent, 100 percent.
And as I said, wa yabka kalamu mutaddada.
That's that's been showing.
We see now people still talk about that.
Fine.
Dr. Iha, we've given you enough time.
I mean, it's MTS.
Bye.
Do you want to wrap this up?
Because I think we are going now in
circles, right?
Yes.
I think this prophecy and the defense of
this prophecy about the marriage, specifically, why it
didn't take place, the audience can judge.
I mean, anyone with a, you know, sensible
judgment will understand, you know, I mean, you
know, the spins that's been, you know, done
on this issue.
It's so obviously clear.
We're not talking about la tabdila alimatillah elsewhere.
We're talking about what Mirza Sahib said in
his statement.
Do you mind, Mohammadi MTS, just to remind
us exactly the statements that Mirza Sahib made
so that the whole audience can refresh their
memory.
And whether it's referring to the other prophecies
about rahmah and forgiveness and death of someone,
or specifically, he's talking about the marriage to
himself.
Mirza Sahib, just remind us, Urdu first, and
then the English translation, if you may.
Inshallah.
Inshallah.
So, Mansoor bhai, before I begin my turn,
I want to give 30 seconds to brother
Yahya.
If there is anything he can ever think
of which he did not have said, please
take 30 seconds, because after that, there's no
more discussion on this one.
Please, 30 seconds.
Sorry, I think you have to, because you
started it, and I have to finish it.
So, you say whatever you want to say,
and then I will finish the subject.
I don't want to leave for the audience
any room of confusion, because the technique...
I promise you, I promise you, okay, I
will not bring any new point.
Once you take your last turn of two
minutes, which will be after this, whatever point
you will raise, I will only address to
that point, but I want to close with
that.
I will not raise any new point.
Brother, I don't know, I will do that
if you keep on insisting, but I personally
think it is not just...
Thank you very much.
Thank you very much.
Okay.
Now, let's, inshallah, Mansoor bhai, inshallah, because he
took time, I want to respond, inshallah, give
me some time, inshallah, okay, brother?
Now, point number one, I said in my
last turn, I said, brother Yahya, if there
is any point, any question you raise to
me, and I have not answered, please redirect
so I can answer.
Alhamdulillah, no question was raised.
So, alhamdulillah, it means that whatever question was
directed at me, I have answered.
No, no, no, no, no, you misunderstood me,
brother.
I said, you do that, and then I
will...
Stop, stop, stop, if you keep on, let
brother Imtiaz speak, please.
Yeah, go ahead.
If you want me to ask a question,
I will ask you a question.
That's fine.
I mean, I think you've had your opportunity.
So, let us hear brother Muhammad Imtiaz.
So, I will ask a question afterwards, brother.
I'm just clarifying.
I clarify for you now.
Give me the time.
No, no, sorry, I've got confused now.
Are you going to move now?
I'm asking what's going to happen.
Sorry.
I'm going to reply.
I'm going to reply to you.
Okay, listen to me, listen carefully.
That's fine, that's fine.
No problem.
I said that in our discussion today in
this stream on the topic of Mohammadi Begum,
have you raised any question in our discussion
which I have not answered?
So, remind me.
I want to answer that before you leave.
This is the point, not any question in
our discussion today about Mohammadi Begum.
If there's any question, raise to me.
Okay, now let's move on.
Shall I raise it now?
You can raise it in your turn, in
your turn.
That's fine.
Okay, now after that, I don't want to
go again on the point of changing the
sequence.
Alhamdulillah, I have given the reference.
People have already seen that originally Sultan Begum
was mentioned first and Ahmed Begum was mentioned
later.
Once Ahmed Begum has died, when Mirza republished
the prophecy, he mentioned Ahmed Begum first and
Sultan Begum after to give the impression that
prophecy is being fulfilled in a chronological order.
There was a tactic played.
This was my point.
That's why I raised that point.
Now, next point, Nafs-e-Pishingoi Bikar Mansoor
said to me, I need to read that
reference.
So, Inshallah, I'm going to read that reference
now.
Okay, listen everyone carefully.
This is called Ishtiharat.
What is it?
Public announcement which Mirza used to make.
They have been compiled in different volumes.
The reference I am going to quote now.
This is Public Announcement Volume 2, page 43
and it is from September 1894 and I
am quoting from the old edition because these
things have old and new.
I'm quoting from the old edition.
Now, listen to the point.
But Nafs-e-Pishingoi, The
words of Allah don't change.
Now, in the English language, he said, Subject
matter of the prophecy is my marriage with
Mohammadi Begum.
And this subject matter is a decree that
can never be changed.
And why it cannot be changed?
He said, because regarding this point of my
marriage to Mohammadi Begum, there is a sentence
in the revelation which says that words of
Allah don't change.
Then he explained for us.
This statement of mine can never be cancelled.
If it is cancelled, the Kalam of Allah
will become Batil or falsehood.
So in this one, everybody has listened carefully
that what was the point?
The marriage with Mohammadi Begum is declared.
And then after that, the point I raised,
I want all the listeners.
Now we are in the crux of the
answers produced by Ahmadiyya in the history.
Alhamdulillah, we're going to address them.
Now, their primary defense is that because family
repented, that's why marriage did not take place.
I want everyone to listen for the last
time carefully.
Number one, there is no repentance.
Why?
Because repentance means whatever sin you have committed,
you need to repent back from that sin.
And we have reference from Mirza himself.
The sin of Sultan Beg was he married
Mohammadi Begum.
So repentance has to be divorced Mohammadi Begum.
It's a logical conclusion.
And this repentance never took place.
So you cannot hide behind the repentance.
Point number two, if repentance has taken place
in 1892, you are not addressing the point
at all.
Why Mirza was prophesying this marriage up till
1907?
You have not explained ever this point.
And point number three, again, regarding the repentance
thing.
Okay, point number three, if repentance has taken
place, if the family has repented, Sultan Beg
has repented, then it is a false thing
to say only delay.
Because repentance means now they are forgiven.
No death, no marriage.
And Mirza never said this.
He kept saying that this marriage will happen.
Now, last point in this repentance thing.
I already, let me say it again.
I said to brother Yahya, I said that
produce one reference.
When Mirza ever said that as a result
of repentance, the marriage has finished.
The reference he quoted, everybody has listened.
There was from Kitabul Wahi.
Okay, 500 something page was.
Okay, the reference was.
In 1907, he's saying it is either nullified
or it has been delayed.
Again, it proves my point.
Because my point was, I have a complete
case on this one with five references.
Mirza always said consistently that the result of
repentance will be only delayed.
And this is exactly he said in this
reference as well.
So, these are the points which have not
been addressed regarding the point of repentance.
After that, he said that why don't you
quote the whole prophecy from 1886.
Guess what brother Yahya?
Because in the last stream, we have quoted
all of those things in order.
Today, we are not again discussing the whole
prophecy.
Today, the point was, listen very carefully.
In today's stream, the point is Mirza said.
He said that my marriage with Mohammadi Begum,
I declare this as a criterion to verify
my truthfulness or my falsehood.
This is the subject matter of today's stream
about Mohammadi Begum.
That's why we only focus on this point.
Otherwise, Alhamdulillah, there's not a single reference about
this thing, which I have not compiled.
And Alhamdulillah, I have not answered in my
coming book, Inshallah.
And the next point is, he said to
me, the things I am quoting about Sultan
Beg, they are stories.
And the thing which he's quoting, they are
the fact.
These are double standard, okay?
And last thing I want to say on
this one.
Mirza Sultan Beg, he said publicly in the
newspaper, that I consider Mirza Ghulam Ahmad a
liar.
Listen everybody carefully.
And this reference, we have with us the
actual reference as well.
If discussion comes on this point, you are
saying that he never said a statement.
He said, I consider Mirza Ghulam Ahmad a
liar and I am a Muslim.
He said this publicly.
What happened to him?
Because you are taking a cover that because
he repented, everything got delayed.
Guess what?
When he said this in the newspaper, this
was the end of repentance.
He should have been died there.
But did nothing happen.
Nothing.
He lived up till 1948.
And Inshallah, last point I want to say,
I want to address every single thing you
said.
Okay?
Okay.
Do you mind clarifying something?
Maybe Dr. Sabah ask a question to clarify.
Which year he said that?
You know, you said Sultan Muhammad, which year
he said that?
Was it before Mirza's death or after?
Okay.
After.
Which year was it?
Adnan Bhai, let me respond.
Okay.
When it comes to your turn, I made
a statement which has no impact whatever date
was.
You know why?
Listen very carefully.
You know why?
Because he repented from something and then he
ended up saying in the public, in the
newspaper that Mirza is a liar.
Regardless of anything, he must die.
This is my, my point is not dead.
Please don't change my point.
My Nafs-e-Pishingoi, what I'm saying, the
subject matter is that he declared Mirza a
liar.
After that, what happened to him?
You need to tell us.
Okay.
And last point again, Inshallah, because every Ahmadi
coming on this team, they are attacking the
prophets.
Inshallah.
Inshallah, brother.
I'm not sure if we'll be able to
get to that point today or we need
to go to the next team.
Inshallah.
We are going to destroy, discover forever and
ever.
And lastly, lastly, he said to me, okay,
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad has claimed that if I
as a prophet make a mistake, Allah will
correct me.
Okay.
He was continuously mistaken because family has repented
and marriage will not take place.
And he's saying that the marriage will take
place.
When did Allah corrected him?
And if Allah did not correct him, was
he truthful when he said that Allah corrects
me?
Over to you.
Okay.
Just to remind, just to remind everyone, we
are going to now have final segments on
this.
We're going to wrap this up.
So you can clarify what you want to
say.
But when we turn to Dr. Saab here,
Dr. Saab will have his final statements.
And then, you know, if you want to
come back to it and that's it.
And that will be the end of this
particular topic.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You see, you see what's happening here today
is very clear that Ahmadi missionaries are, you
know, not giving straight answers to put it
politely.
Okay.
It's clear that this gentleman is struggling to
give straight answers to a very simple question.
Mirza himself said that this is from Allah.
These are the words of Allah to me
that you will marry this woman.
And he kept hoping for this fulfillment as
late as 1907, months before he died himself.
Clearly, Mirza was still hoping for this fulfillment,
which he himself had prophesized.
Okay.
These guys, for some reason, are not getting
the point or they are getting the point,
but they don't want to accept it.
This is how simple it is.
How can you possibly come to Muslims and
tell them to accept this man as a
prophet?
You can't blame us.
You can't blame us for rejecting him.
You have no case against us.
The Ahmadis, the Qadianis have no case against
the Muslim ummah when we reject Mirza Ghulam
Ahmad Qadiani as a liar because of all
these points.
So many prophecies, false, unfulfilled.
This man.
Seriously, I mean, a lot can be said,
but I don't want to take too much
time.
Okay, let's let's let's let's give.
Brother, can I share my screen?
You have two minutes.
You can say what you want and we'll
move on.
Brother, can I share my screen?
Sure, sure.
Before you start, two minutes.
Yeah, go ahead.
I can't see it on.
Is it shared?
Not yet.
Okay, can you just.
No, no.
Can you I can't see your screen yet.
Can you.
Oh, sorry.
One second.
I think I've shared it.
Okay, one second.
And share.
Can you see now?
Yeah.
Let me bring it up.
One moment.
Okay, I'm going to get to it.
Yeah, is it?
Yeah.
Okay, brother, this is the classic example how
unfortunately this prophecy has been half told and
the rest of it, all of it is
hidden from the public.
Look, brother Imtiaz, he he read up to
here.
So, therefore, it's a continuation.
Brother Imtiaz, why didn't you read it?
He said, so after these days, when Allah
will see that these people have changed and
they do, that means they will do something
against me or against Islam.
Then Allah will fulfill this prophecy, according to
whatever I'm saying.
And that that didn't happen because those people
got scared.
That's very important point.
But brother Imtiaz didn't show that.
Next page.
Same exactly the same reference.
And that's reference brothers.
They that reference basically resolve the whole prophecy.
Mirza Sahib has written.
This is a prophecy for those people of
our family who were atheists, who were against
Islam.
So that was their, that was their, you
know, what was their, what was their sin?
That was their sin.
And because they rectified that sin, that's where
they came under Rahma of Allah.
Then you read from page 43 that this
is Why didn't you read brother page 45?
He says, remember And
after that, one page after.
Do you mind translating this?
Because not everyone understands who do.
Neither do I.
He says that remember that as far as
Nikah to this lady is concerned, there's these
things.
This is from Allah Ta'ala.
Allah told me.
But Quran tells us there's such prophecies.
They are from Takbir-e-Muallad.
That means they are, there are certain conditions
attached to them.
That's why I said, and this is Sunnatullah.
So Mirza Sahib two page after brother said
something which you didn't show to the public,
which is, I mean, obviously, that's the reason
I was saying to you.
When you say something, you should say the
whole picture.
You mentioned Sultan Muhammad's letter.
I know.
Why didn't you say that?
They told us this year.
It was 1921.
If I remember correctly, about 11, 13 years
after the demise of Promised Messiah.
And that was a fake letter.
Remember, fake letter.
Our Jama'at asked Ahle Hadith, Muhammad Rasulullah,
show us the original letter.
He never showed us the original letter.
And talking about letters.
This is letter from Sultan Muhammad in Al
-Fazl, 9-13-1921.
He said, I asked Sultan Muhammad Sahib, if
you don't mind, what do you think of
the prophecy of Mirza Sahib?
He said, you can ask me question.
The fact is that my father-in-law,
he died according to the prophecy.
And then he said, Allah is Ghafoor-ur
-Raheem.
So he, he listens to those people who
pray to him.
That's the letter of Sultan Muhammad.
Okay.
I haven't finished yet, brother.
Okay, let's give him a few more minutes
to finish.
Because that's the end of his segment.
And then you can come back to it.
No, that's fine.
You can have another minute.
That's fine.
Okay.
Now, brother, I don't have to carry on
doing the answer.
If you're bringing the same allegation again and
again.
You said, why they repented in 1982?
Why up to 1907?
I give you the answer that Sultan Muhammad,
he didn't say anything.
And neither in favor, nor against.
A whole prophecy, you said last program, you
mentioned it.
No, you didn't.
No, you didn't.
You didn't show those parts, brother, which I
showed to you today.
So you basically hide the prophecy from the
public.
That is dishonesty.
Then you said marriage of Muhammadi Begum.
Marriage of Muhammadi Begum did not take place.
Because as I tell you, I'm telling you
again and again.
According to the prophecy, Sultan Muhammad had to
die for marriage to take place.
Sultan Muhammad, as I showed from his letter.
He said, Allah is ghafooro raheem.
Okay, we have to follow the holy Quran.
Holy Quran tells us from the from surah
Yunus nation that when they repented, Allah forgave
them.
With regard to this thing that Mirza Sahib
continue up to 1907 and this and that.
Maybe brother, you haven't read this reference.
Maybe new to you.
It is from Malfoozat Hazrat Masih Maud, 11th
of April, 1908.
Someone asked Hazrat Masih Maud that people are
asking about Mirza Ahmad Beg prophecy and they
say that, you know, this has been fulfilled.
Huzoor said, you should be asking that person,
is he a Kalamago?
Doesn't he know that the Holy Prophet ﷺ
and doesn't he believe in Holy Prophet ﷺ
and Nabiya before that?
He said, I am.
It's very surprised.
I'm very surprised about those people.
You know, they're sorry.
Mentioned the brain cells.
Yeah, I would just say translated brain cells.
What kind of people are they?
They don't sing.
They don't even think that people take advantage
of.
I'll read a note to the note.
He said, Hundreds of my
prophecies have been fulfilled.
So brothers, I have proven to you.
Translate that to English.
Do you mind translating it?
Because I've given you more than nine minutes
already.
Yes, sorry.
The Mirza Sahib said that I'm really surprised
by those people that hundreds of my prophecies
have been fulfilled, but they don't take no
benefit out of that.
But when there's a prophecy, which is Mutashabihaat,
like the prophecy of Hazrat Yunus Alaihissalam.
What does Mutashabihaat mean?
Stop it.
Mutashabihaat mean, according to Muslim scholars, something which
can be given more than one meaning.
More than one meaning.
Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait,
wait, wait.
What is the opposite of Mutashabihaat?
He said, Mohkum means clear.
Yes, and prophesies.
Mohkum means categorical and Mutashabihaat means unclear, vague.
Yes, and that's prophecies.
When we discuss the Suhl of prophecies, you
will see many prophecies in the Holy Quran,
they are not clear.
Okay, I think we have to stop you
here, Dr. Sahib, if you don't mind.
I think we've had enough opportunity.
Just last sentence.
I'm just saying, brothers, as far as this
prophecy is concerned, Alhamdulillah, I have shown you
that this prophecy has been fulfilled according to
as it was revealed to Hazrat Mirza Sahib
100% and it is still fulfilling.
Okay, it is still fulfilling because people who
don't believe in prophets, they always bring allegations
and the prophecy said, The dogs will
keep on barking.
That's words of God for us.
I'm really sorry.
I'm not saying from me.
That's word of God.
Yeah.
So this prophecy has been 100% fulfilled.
Alhamdulillah.
Okay.
Thank you, Dr. Sahib.
So, Mohammad Imtiaz, as you requested earlier, you
can have your come back on this.
Before that, Adnan Bhai, if you want to
say something, yeah, go ahead.
Yeah, I want to mention a few points
very quickly from this year, that indeed dogs
are barking, no doubt dogs are barking, but
it depends which direction they're barking at.
Okay.
And who are the dogs?
It's very, very, it's a very, you know,
important question to address that.
So my, you know, the point I want
to raise is that he said Sultan Bey
repented.
And this is from Al-Fazl.
Al-Fazl is a Qadiani propaganda newspaper.
Al-Fazl was the Sun newspaper of the
daily star of the Qadiani propaganda.
So it was a lie attributed to Sultan
Mohammad.
I'll tell you why.
I'll tell you why.
How is it possible for a man to
say that prophecy was fulfilled because my father
-in-law died and about me, God is
merciful.
God is merciful.
How is it possible for him to reject
Mirza as a prophet?
This is the point we raise with regards
to Josephus writing about Jesus Christ, that he
was the Messiah who was killed on the
cross and then raised on the third day.
Scholars say that this is a lie attributed
to Joseph.
The scholars never wrote it because it's a
heresy.
Can you mute your mics?
Mute your mics, please.
Guys, can you mute your mics, please?
Can you mute your mics?
Yeah, thank you.
So Josephus was a historian, a Jewish historian
who wrote, and he was a Pharisee who
wrote positive things about Jesus Christ.
Scholars, historians reject those statements because they know
Josephus was a Pharisee.
Likewise, Al-Fazl newspaper, a Qadiani newspaper, attributing
those statements to Sultan Muhammad did not produce
any evidence.
They went to Mawlana Amritsari asking for the
original.
We ask for the original.
Where is your original?
Can you produce your original?
You have nothing.
You have nothing.
Okay, the original letter with witnesses signed by
him that we can authenticate.
Okay, if that's the case, if you're claiming
that he would have died a Qadiani, Sultan
Muhammad would have died a Qadiani, okay.
This is Ruhani Khazain.
You just pulled out Ruhani Khazain.
I can see it.
Okay.
No, this is not Ruhani Khazain.
This is Ahmadiyya pocketbook, brother.
And that's the letter from Sultan Muhammad, original
letter.
Thank you.
Ahmadiyya pocketbook is a propaganda pocketbook.
You spread it around.
We don't accept anything.
Look, you are pinning everything we have put
together.
It's full of deception.
Your responses are full of deception, full of
sidetracking, full of digressions.
You're not heading, you're not answering the point
directly.
Mirza said, it is from Allah that I
will get married to this woman.
Up to 1907, he's saying this.
Okay.
And you know what?
You don't even know how to present the
evidence.
Can you mute your mic, please?
Yeah, because we hear noise.
Yeah, thank you.
I think we should move on, Adnan.
It's been like an hour.
We are moving on, Hashim.
We are moving on.
We have a lot of statements from MTR,
so that's it on this issue.
Yeah, yeah.
So I'm saying you put up a question
from Malfoozat, 1908.
The fact that someone came to question him
on this shows you it's still a scandal.
It's still a problem.
Why would they be questioning him in 1908
when repentance is done, everything's over, Mirza is
fine, everything's happy, you know, happy-go-lucky.
It wasn't like that.
People were still asking him questions.
This was the biggest problem of his life.
Mohammadi Begum gave him a tight slap, to
use someone's words from the comment section.
She gave him a tight slap.
Mohammadi Begum.
This was still a scandal near the end
of his life, and I think he died
because of this scandal.
Over to you, MTR's bhai.
So is this the last statement?
We can't hear you, Adnan.
This is, yeah, his last statement on this.
Okay, great, yeah.
We can't hear you, MTR's bhai.
We can't hear you, MTR's bhai.
You need to fix your mic.
Microphone not plugged in.
No, unmute again.
Try unmuting again.
Can you hear me now?
Yes, loud and clear.
Okay, alhamdulillah.
So, as we have already agreed, and inshallah,
I will keep up my promise.
I will only address the point brother Yahya
has raised.
I will not raise any new point.
And this will be a conclusive statement on
this subject.
Okay, first of all, as everybody has listened,
I have said twice that is there any
question regarding our today's discussion.
My brother Yahya has asked me, and I
have not answered.
Please remind me.
For alhamdulillah, I asked him twice.
I gave him two chances, which, alhamdulillah, I
answered his question, which he asked me today.
Okay, next point.
He's saying that I have not, I'm not
quoting all the references on this prophecy, neither
in the previous stream nor in today's stream.
Now, here is my answer.
Brother Yahya, as you know this, that this
issue starts from 1886.
And you know this, okay, from the February
of 1886.
And it continued till the death and the
last writings of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.
Obviously, if you are saying to me that
quote was every single reference, that's not possible.
But, however, I made sure with the best
of my ability as a human being, that
I do not miss on any major reference
that can give us more understanding of the
issue.
Last thing I would say is this.
Just in case, just in case, brother Yahya,
if you think, and as Adnan bhai said,
that this issue of Muhammad-e-Begum is
indeed very important, okay.
If you want to dedicate one stream just
on this prophecy, I promise you that whichever
reference you will want me to read, I
will read that, I will discuss that, okay.
Let's organize it.
Let's organize it.
Let me complete my point.
I'm ready.
Let me complete the point.
Alhamdulillah.
Let me complete, okay.
So, and then after that, he said that,
okay.
So, yeah.
Then he discussed the issue of Taqdeer-e
-Mubram and Taqdeer-e-Muallak.
Brother Yahya, please, and all the listeners, please,
I beg every listener to listen what I'm
going to say now about the issue of
Taqdeer-e-Mubram and Taqdeer-e-Muallak.
Brothers, if Taqdeer, and by the way, this
Taqdeer of his marriage with Muhammad-e-Begum,
Mirza declared it as Taqdeer-e-Mubram.
I gave reference multiple times.
Now, if Taqdeer-e-Mubram and Taqdeer-e
-Muallak, if both of them can be changed,
what is the point of this distinguish?
This difference does not make any sense.
If both of them are changeable, then there
is no point to say one is Mubram
and one is Muallak.
That is my principle answer to this point.
And after that, yes, next issue, very important
thing about the letters, the letters which are
produced from the Muslim side and the letters
which are produced from the Ahmadi side.
Once again, it's an invitation.
I'm not sure that obviously when I'm saying
invitation about the stream, I am not saying
on this stream because this stream does not
belong to me.
This stream belongs to Dawah Voice.
If they want to conduct khair, up to
them.
If they don't, I can't say it.
But I am ready.
I am ready, inshallah.
We will go to an independent platform like
debate initiative, okay?
And we will discuss the issue of letters
because it involves a lot of history.
As you know, brother Yahya, there's a lot
of background history in that.
Alhamdulillah, Alhamdulillah.
My research topic includes this as one chapter.
I've done research on this prophecy.
Is there a way?
Is there a way to verify that which
side's letters are trustworthy?
Inshallah, when we have that stream, please, we
will only discuss the letter issue.
That's it.
Okay.
And after that.
No, no, no, no.
Whole prophecy.
Why just letter issue?
Whole prophecy we have to discuss.
Whole prophecy.
Why just letter issue?
Guys, we really need to move on because
this is...
It's been five hours.
I need to respond to new points.
For the last 15 minutes, I think last
point, last point.
No, no, no, no.
I will tell you which one.
No, no, no.
Let me complete my turn.
Brother Imtiaz, finish please and then we're going
to move on.
We got one more prophecy, right?
after this yeah yeah after that after that
uh brother uh has quoted a reference from
11th april 1908 and in this one he
was telling us that mirza sahib was saying
to the people that why don't you look
at the other prophecies why don't you just
come to these two through prophecies i have
already mentioned brother yahya in the beginning maybe
you were not i'm not sure i said
that we we're gonna do one stream on
the topic inshallah that the prophecies which ahmadiyya
claim that they got fulfilled inshallah one stream
will be on those prophecies no problem at
all and after that uh you raise the
point of muhammad and mutashabih my brother yeah
yeah listen this point very carefully i am
assuming maybe you don't know this point before
listen very carefully i'm assuming just okay mirza
sahib as a prophet okay he made a
claim of his messiahship and prophethood and the
matter at the least at the least the
matter got confused for the people in order
to in order to clarify the matter he
is bringing the miracle which is the pishingui
the nishan as you nishan pishingui miracle all
of these four terms are used interchangeably by
mirza sahib i can give you all reference
if you deny this okay now the my
point is he made a claim people became
confused okay in order to clarify the confusion
if allah is again going to give him
something mutashabih what is the point there is
no point in that one okay so understand
this point it's a very it's a very
academic point please note this down you need
to address this inshallah in your own okay
and then undo a confusion and lessens more
confusion mashallah okay and last point and last
point last point you said at the end
to you said at the end like a
public speaker to give the impression prophecy was
fulfilled hang on a second we have both
agreed that there are two parts which are
the subject matter of the prophecy you put
the part of death of sultan bey i
put the part of muhammadi begum's marriage with
mirza both of them did not happen and
still you have the audacity to say that
prophecy was fulfilled brother please please i will
i can only say that this is not
fair thank you no no we're sorry we're
sorry thank you very much for giving me
time we we you know you know we
had a discussion in a good manner and
inshallah we will continue thank you very much
i don't mind even sharing my my number
in the private chat you can contact me
we can have this discussion we can organize
it i'm writing my number in the private
chat yeah inshallah inshallah thank you very much
okay yeah yeah thank you very much nice
talking to you brother thank you very much