Abdur Rahman ibn Yusuf Mangera – Spiritual Impact of the Indian Subcontinent on the World

Abdur Rahman ibn Yusuf Mangera
AI: Summary ©
The speakers discuss the influence of the Indian sub detinent on devotional practices and personalities, including a person named backstage. They also touch on the history of the sponsor of the booksted and the importance of history and "ar abuse" in modern times. The speakers emphasize the importance of history and "ar heritage" in modern society, and discuss the use of "three ways" to read the paper and the importance of history in relation to their understanding of "ar heritage." They also discuss the challenges of language translation and the need for better language learning.
AI: Transcript ©
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I won't embarrass Mufti of the Raman too much by going into his

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bio you will have his bio. I will simply say that he's someone I've

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known for several years, who's really mashallah very well

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accomplished in different arenas, as a Mufti in his own tradition,

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but also as an academic with a doctorate from Soros and Islamic

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Studies. And somebody who mashallah takes a very wide angle,

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kind of lens on certain issues

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and just thoroughly enjoyable human being.

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Today, we're going to listen to him for about 2025 minutes,

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at which point we'll open up the floor for questions inshallah.

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Bismillah.

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Bismillah al Rahman al Rahim Al Hamdulillah. Al Hamdulillah Hamden

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girthier on the uban Mobarak and fee Mubarak canal de Gama, your

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Hebrew buena La

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Jolla, La Jolla, Juan Manuel are salatu salam or Allah say you will

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have even Mustafa SallAllahu Tada either you are either early or

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Safi or Baraka wa seldom at the Sleeman Kathira on Eli Yomi Dean

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Amar beret call Allah with the baraka with IDA Philip Quran Maji.

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They will for Colonial Hamid Belle who are yet to be in tune vi sudo

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realtyna otolaryngol. So the kala hula leam.

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So respected attendees Alhamdulillah, we are coming to a

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close on this. My talk today is

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more about the effect of the Indian subcontinent and the

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devotional practices of the subcontinent pretty much

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throughout the world.

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And the reason I say this is because I share this like both as

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a I don't know if I can actually call myself an insider. I'm

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definitely an outsider, I have an overseas citizenship of India. So

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seeing how devotional practice in India pretty much effected

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nearly all the countries in the West. So I think that's what my

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paper is going to be about. And I've actually chosen somebody very

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specific.

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If I'm going to start this paper, if I started with a question that

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which Indian personality, religious personality comes to

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your mind as being the most influential on the devotion

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practices of the subcontinent,

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a number of personalities could come to mind we had a discussion

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about Sheikh Maureen within Chishti, Rahima, hula earlier. And

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there's a number of others that will come to mind as well.

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So today, the person I want to speak about is somebody that very

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few scholars from the Indian subcontinent and Beyond Today, who

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have probably not in some way or the other benefited from the

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heritage of that person's heritage, and that Sheikh Ahmed

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said Hindi Sheikh Ahmed said Hindi known by a number of other names,

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his story goes back centuries, he didn't just appear in a vacuum.

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There was a lot done in the subcontinent for Sheikh Imam Ahmed

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said Hindi to have flourished the way he did, and then to do the

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work that he did. And then to be given the title as revival of the

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second millennium. So I just want to discuss some of that, in this

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paper. So

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Sheikh Mohammed said Hindi is born in 971.

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died in 1034 Hijiri. So that's just

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the end and beginning of the Islamic second millennium.

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Just to put in perspective, from a Gregorian perspective, that's

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1624 1515 64 to 1624.

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Historic goes back centuries, it didn't just start that's 400 years

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ago, when he lived it didn't just start then, in 971, of the hijra,

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he actually starts with the spread of Islam in the Indian

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subcontinent, from by Muslims from Arabia, Mohammed bin Qasim in

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Sindh and then in other places of the rest of the subcontinent.

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And I would probably assume that number of us sitting here today

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would probably take pride in referring in referring to

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themselves as Siddiqui. Right and you said Dickies here

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No. CDkeys Okay. Osmani

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right, you've got a claim to sit down. Sit being Siddiqui Farooqi,

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Osmani Allawi and then of course we definitely have some science

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here and

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Masha Allah Muhammad McNeese say it.

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So they, obviously they all trace their ancestry to some of the

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greatest forebears of Islam that go beyond the Indian subcontinent.

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However we, I mean, I have to add this, we can't guarantee that all

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such attributions can be reliably traced.

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For as with anything that is valuable, there's always going to

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be fakes that appear. Right. So among the descendants of these of

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monies and CDkeys and others that came into the subcontinent, there

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was a family that ended up in Punjab.

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Now, I know we've got a few Punjabis here and I really want to

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highlight this point, because this is really amazing, right? I wish

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there were more Punjabis here so that they could really have to be

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from Punjab. Yeah, and Zhi Shan, Punjabi, mashallah, right. So,

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now, and now Punjab is actually divided between India and

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Pakistan, but the area that I speak about is actually on the

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Indian side, which is called Set Hindi I've had the mashallah the

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honor to have visited

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many of these and surrounding areas had large Muslim populations

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before 1946. But unfortunately, after the problems, you know, many

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of them are migrated to Pakistan and beyond. There's always a

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silver lining to everything. And mashallah, we have a huge

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population of Punjabis in the UK.

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So,

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I want to speak about three events now. And then we're going to tie

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those three events together. The first event is that insert hint

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settled the family of the Farooqi line. So out of these four or five

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famous families, a Farooqi line descendants of Omar Alfaro. Camila

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Momineen Radi Allahu anhu, Ahmed, Hatha already Allah one settled

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there, one of the scholars of this, one of the scholars.

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His his son's name was Ahmed. He was the one who eventually become

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Sheikh Ahmed said Hindi but how does he do that? So much before

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this time, we have to start some centuries before that in

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Uzbekistan, which is not too far away. Right? It's just a variety

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Stein and then there's Uzbekistan just beyond the Oxus River in the

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lands of Bahara. Some are contained with Howard is him

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Shush, Tashkent, Nassif, etc, is a scholar from Bahara in particular,

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but how the next man died in 1389 Hijiri. It worked very hard to

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establish an order actually not 13 at 18 to 1389 Gregorian worked

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very hard to establish an order of spirituality to connect people to

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Allah Most High. This order eventually became known as the

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Naqshbandi Order.

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He had many students and disciples whose spread around and inspired

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many of the subsequent generations. One of the spiritual

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descendants further down the line was a hydra called Hydra Mohammed

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M Kennedy. He died he died in 1600. Gregorian Hydra Mohammed M

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Kennedy

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now in the time of this Hotjar Mohammed I'm kind of getting

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around this just before the 1600s There's a third individual now he

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leaves cobble Cobble is next door in in Afghanistan today

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and he's looking for spiritual purification enlightenment

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fulfillment, his name is Raja Deen Mohammed bulky

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eventually becomes known as Kasia bulky biller.

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Now he wanted he seeking to develop closeness with Allah

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subhanho wa taala. So he goes to one Hong Kong one spiritual lodge

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to another until he eventually ends up over the border. I don't

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know if there was a beautiful Hora son maybe at that time not sure

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into Uzbekistan and

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che called Akbar ignore Arabi Rahim Allah had just departed

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before this and Rosario Rahim Allah departed before that and

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Masha Allah, they were spiritual lodges everywhere people were

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interested in the South. However, there's also a lot of corruption

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that had crept into the field of the soul the soul has as it

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happens to everything. If things aren't managed properly over time,

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due to exaggerations, misunderstandings of certain Sufi

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concepts, a level of laxity in fact, it even crept in to certain

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Sufi groups. And there's also discussion of some who even

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started treating the soul orphan Sufism as a totally separate

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religion altogether.

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And therefore, they thought it was okay to neglect some of the

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fundamental practices of Islam like solid and so on as long as

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you're a Sufi. Now this going back to Hajah bulky biller is moving

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from Hong Kong to Hong Kong. And suddenly he ends up in the

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spiritual retreat of this codger M. Kennedy, that I just spoke

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about in Uzbekistan.

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He stays with him and he finds fulfillment down there. And this

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codger um, kind of gives him the Khilafah right He bestows him with

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the mantle of Khilafah and authorizes him to teach others to

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solve while Hydra Bucky biller.

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Is there he sees a dream in which he sees a parrot there has to be a

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dream somewhere in this, okay? This pet dreams, mashallah very

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important. He sees a parrot. Now what's significant about a parrot

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in those days I don't think anymore. But in those days parents

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were seen as a Hindustani an Indian bird, right? I'm still not

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worked out why? Because I don't think that's where they started.

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But they were seen as Indian birds.

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And this dream was interpreted that

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Hajah Bucky Bella had to go to the subcontinent and the CHE Hodge

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about bill that I mean, he was reluctant to go he was a very low,

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low key figure, very humble person, probably an introvert, but

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he was instructed by his Sheikh to go to India, and he was said, he

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was told that when you go to India, you will find a man there

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to whom you will have to pass on your teachings, you will have to

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pass on your teachings, that man, in turn is going to become

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instrumental in the preservation and the preservation of the

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religion in India, and the defense of it a major defense of the

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religion, India and you're going to be the means towards that. So

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reluctantly, he traveled to India and he settled in a masjid in

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Delhi. I've been to this Masjid I think is buried behind. And at

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that time, Delhi was one of the great cities of the world. I mean,

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I'm not sure if it still is or not. But at that time, it was

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definitely one of the great cities of Delhi, I'll leave the rest to

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you to decide about today. And very soon people were drawn

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towards him, as every sincere friend and lover of Allah, they

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become like magnets. And many, many people flocked to him. And he

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found benefit in his discourses in his company. And the reason for

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that is simply a hadith tells us a Prophetic narration tells us that

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when Allah subhanaw taala loves somebody he calls Gibreel Ali

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salaam, and he says, I love such and such a person so you should

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love him too. And God salaam then pretty much just spreads this

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information among the other angels. And then the angels come

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on to the earth and that message becomes spread subliminally or

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whatever the wavelength it's on through the human beings and

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people. There's an acceptance for you that will the whole caboodle

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fill out an acceptance is placed for them in their hearts. Now,

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let's go back to Sir when we were in Delhi now, Allahu Akbar. And we

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go back to Sir hint, he will Imam Muhammad, Sheikh Mohammed said

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Hindi he was on his way for Hajj and he'd heard about this hijab

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acapella and he decided to visit him. Now Sheikh Ahmed had already

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studied the solo founder his father, he was a great Arlynn

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already proficient scholar of the Sharia, well grounded in both

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theology, jurisprudence and you know, all the various different

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sciences. He arrived in in Delhi, and he went to meet her

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Jabberwocky biller and ended up staying with him for a few months.

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And then he visits him once or twice more thereafter. On that

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last visit Hyderabad Kybella. I mean, maybe before this culture,

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Bucky biller realizes that this is the man from India that he has

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been told to

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pass his transmission on to. So in his last visit, he says to all of

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his students, that from now on, you're going to take your

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knowledge from Sheikh Mohammed, and eventually Hydra Bakula passes

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away. Sheikh Mohammed doesn't stay in Delhi. He goes back to set hint

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and he continues his work and he becomes very, very well known.

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Now, at this time, there's a major problem that has gripped the

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subcontinent. Now you have to remember subcon has been very

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powerful from before. If you look in the ages in Arabia, the

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subcontinent people have had a major influence there from

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centuries before in terms of lodges and a number of things. In

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fact, the Hajj camps of the Indians was probably the closest

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before I think now they've kind of shifted them. But they had a lot

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of influence there. Right? And in many other places, because they

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were traders and other things in Malaysia in lots of other places.

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Now, at this time, it's the third mogul emperor, the third third

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mogul ruler, was

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a Kabara. Son of Houma Yun, grandson of barber.

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He originally says he started his life as a

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righteous kind of person. He had a lot of respect for Obama at the

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beginning as well. And it looks like because there was some chaos

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during his young age, he did not he didn't learn to read and write

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maybe. So that's why he was very impressionable. And there were a

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number of corrupt people giving him misleading advice. If we want

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to believe in blaming on advisors. Hindustan has probably always been

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a majority Hindu country, right? Even though we have 200 million

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Muslims there right now is still a majority Hindu country. And Akbar

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became obsessed with the idea to unite all the religions in one and

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I mean, that's something every Indian will know about every

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Indian Muslim will know about. So he enacted a number of laws in

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this regard. For instance, the slaughters of slaughtering of cows

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was forbidden at that time and

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He called this religion Dena Elahi or the Akbari religion dean at UC

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Berkeley, various names are given. He imposed a number of other

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strange practices. For instance, anybody who visited him had to do

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what they call a search the total volume of data of me, right, a

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frustration of reverence. And he even found scholars to justify it,

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saying that it's not shirk as long as they're not doing it for a

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bother and worship purposes.

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There were a look, there were a number of scholars at that time

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who spoke out against this, but this was going to have major

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impact because the people of subcontinent if we look at it, in

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hindsight, I don't know if they would have understood this, then

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we're seeing how significant this point was going to be. Because

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right now we have the subcontinent people in

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multitude of countries and imagine if this particular religion was

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allowed to have continued. So what we have to understand is that the

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Sunnah of Allah is never to neglect the Muslim community. The

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Muslim world has faced many ups and downs, highs and lows ebbs and

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flows, peaks and valleys, waxing and waning fluctuations and good

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and bad times. But Allah subhanaw taala has always revived the

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Muslims, as has been shown wonderfully by Sheikh Sheikh

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Hasina in his saviors of Islamic territory without limit, which I

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think this time people should really read. Right? It's really

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gives you a lot of gives you a lot of inspiration. Eventually, Akbar

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died after having instituted all of these so called reforms of his

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and then Jahangir became his son Jiang, he became this next ruler

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of India. He was a much nicer man in the sense not as ideologically

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stubborn, or driven as his father. He was more interested in probably

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the luxuries of life, right? I mean, we are talking about people

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of the past, we learned this from the historians. Now what it is, is

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that if there's a person who's an ideologue against Islam, it's much

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more difficult to convince them because they have an ideology.

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Anybody who is not an ideologue, is just more interested in

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enjoyment and so on. They still have a heart and you can get to

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their heart and it's easier to influence such people. Sheikh

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Ahmed, sir Hindi, eventually has a meeting with Jahangir and some

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meetings.

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What happens is, his fame continues to grow and people

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around Jahangir, tell him that you better be warned about this man

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because he could be your destruction, it could be a

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problem for you. So Joe Hungee reckon that Imams or Hindi had was

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a threat, so imprisoned him for about a year for Sheikh Mohammed

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mashallah person of Allah he made that his hand call the prison

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became his spiritual Lodge, and many of the prisoners became

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religious, religious and recanted their own ways. Jiang eventually

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regretted what he had done. It took him out of prison, but then

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he put him in kind of a house arrest that he had to stay with

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him. You're like my personal advisor, and

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he became really, really drawn to him such that way. Eventually,

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when Imam Sheikh Muhammad passed away. Jiang even thought that he

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was his Khalifa, his other Haulover had to actually say, no,

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no, no, you are very close to him, but you are not his Khalifa.

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He managed to get a junkie to reverse a lot of the corrupt laws

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that his father had enacted. So the finally the ban on cow

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slaughter was lifted, and many religious prisoners were freed.

00:18:19 --> 00:18:22

Now, just to hurry up now, after the death of Sheikh Ahmed, his son

00:18:22 --> 00:18:26

hijama. Assume he took over he continued his father's work with

00:18:26 --> 00:18:30

working with this royal family with the moguls after him, his son

00:18:30 --> 00:18:35

hajus sayfudine, who died in 1096. He worked on the family because it

00:18:35 --> 00:18:38

was very important that this family be kept secure because they

00:18:38 --> 00:18:41

were very powerful at the time. And the moguls were powerful until

00:18:41 --> 00:18:45

eventually Aurangzeb after which they started to decline. And then

00:18:45 --> 00:18:49

there was a decline afterwards. The moguls have left an indelible

00:18:49 --> 00:18:51

indelible mark on the subcontinent. And I would say

00:18:51 --> 00:18:54

beyond, through, you know, the people who've moved to the other

00:18:55 --> 00:18:59

other places, you could probably say that orang Zia, who probably

00:18:59 --> 00:19:04

became one of the most arguably maybe one of the greatest and more

00:19:04 --> 00:19:06

powerful, most powerful of the rulers.

00:19:07 --> 00:19:11

Unfortunately, after that, they began to wane. I mean, I see a

00:19:11 --> 00:19:14

parallel between him and Sheikh Abdul Hamid or Sultan Abdulhamid

00:19:14 --> 00:19:17

of the Ottoman Empire, the last of the great rulers of the Ottomans.

00:19:17 --> 00:19:22

And then after that, things just totally descended into, you know,

00:19:22 --> 00:19:25

towards basically eventually a destruction of the whole state.

00:19:25 --> 00:19:29

Now, Sheikh Mohammed said Hindi is referred to by many names. One is

00:19:29 --> 00:19:34

Imam Rabbani, then and the other one more famous is Majid Al Thani

00:19:34 --> 00:19:38

Reviver of the second millennium. There's many people throughout

00:19:38 --> 00:19:42

history who have been noted for being revivals of each, each

00:19:42 --> 00:19:45

century, 100 years as the Hadith and Sunnah Abu Tao tells us that

00:19:45 --> 00:19:49

they will be such a person. But something unique about Sheikh

00:19:49 --> 00:19:51

Mohammed is that he's considered the revival of the second

00:19:51 --> 00:19:55

millennium. Now there are people who've who've questioned this

00:19:55 --> 00:19:59

title that is he really, a reviver I mean, a at least a

00:20:00 --> 00:20:05

revival of the second millennium or not? Now, I would probably say

00:20:05 --> 00:20:08

that because the subcontinent has always held a very important

00:20:08 --> 00:20:12

position, and more so in the last 100 200 years, it's been

00:20:12 --> 00:20:15

influential people of the subcontinent has have been

00:20:15 --> 00:20:18

influential in many parts of the Muslim world pages, the Malay

00:20:18 --> 00:20:23

Archipelago. And in more recent times, many countries of Africa

00:20:23 --> 00:20:27

I've traveled to at least six, five or six countries of Africa,

00:20:27 --> 00:20:30

and mashallah, there's a presence of Indians, Pakistani,

00:20:30 --> 00:20:34

Bangladeshi, is there primarily Indians. And then pretty much the

00:20:34 --> 00:20:38

most of the western world, America, Australia, New Zealand,

00:20:38 --> 00:20:41

the UK and many parts of Europe, right. And they're doing some

00:20:41 --> 00:20:46

solid work. I mean, this is all an effect of this. So the scene would

00:20:46 --> 00:20:50

have been very different if the Dena Ilahi had been allowed to

00:20:50 --> 00:20:54

prosper and had not been reined in. And we can say was, Sheikh

00:20:54 --> 00:20:58

Ahmed said Hindi is work and efforts that manage to put this

00:20:58 --> 00:21:01

down another area, a few more areas, another area, Sheikh

00:21:01 --> 00:21:06

Mohammed plays a very pivotal role is removing a lot of the

00:21:06 --> 00:21:10

corruptions that had entered and plague Sufism over time. Right.

00:21:10 --> 00:21:13

One of them was the concert, what they would do now, nothing

00:21:13 --> 00:21:15

necessarily wrong with what had to do with and I don't want to get

00:21:15 --> 00:21:20

into that. But at that time, it says that maybe 90% of the Sufis

00:21:20 --> 00:21:22

of the world, were proponents of why the tool would shoot and some

00:21:22 --> 00:21:25

in a very extreme way, to such a degree that they left praying

00:21:25 --> 00:21:29

solid, because why the * would you somehow justified for them,

00:21:29 --> 00:21:33

that being one in which Allah didn't need you to do any other

00:21:33 --> 00:21:37

worship, and so on. Now, there were many people who wrote against

00:21:37 --> 00:21:41

and spoke against the concept that this extreme idea that had come

00:21:41 --> 00:21:44

up, but they wouldn't be listened to, they would just be passed off

00:21:44 --> 00:21:47

as people of the hill, people of the apparent that's why what you

00:21:47 --> 00:21:53

needed is you needed a proficient Sufi master. Right? Who, you know,

00:21:53 --> 00:21:56

couldn't be sidelined, who couldn't be dismissed. And that's

00:21:56 --> 00:22:00

that is where Sheikh Mohammed sir Hindi comes in. He repudiated this

00:22:00 --> 00:22:04

concept, put forward a modified version, which he turned to I had

00:22:04 --> 00:22:08

to shoot arguing to be the more sound the one less problematic

00:22:08 --> 00:22:09

one.

00:22:10 --> 00:22:13

Sheikh Mohammed said Hindi has written a number of works, I can't

00:22:13 --> 00:22:16

go into all of that many of them actually pistols and letters, the

00:22:16 --> 00:22:20

MK to bat and SubhanAllah. If you go to, for example, Turkey today,

00:22:20 --> 00:22:23

and you are if you're a teacher of the MK to bat in Turkey, right,

00:22:23 --> 00:22:28

the whole of Turkey, then you are just like the teacher of Sahil

00:22:28 --> 00:22:32

Buhari is revered, right, you get that kind of reverence. It could

00:22:32 --> 00:22:36

also be argued that the religiosity in Turkey, right,

00:22:36 --> 00:22:41

especially since the 6070, or secularization program, that

00:22:41 --> 00:22:47

initiated that was initiated after the 1924, the breaking down of the

00:22:47 --> 00:22:52

Ottoman Empire, where people were done was banned in Arabic, and

00:22:52 --> 00:22:53

they had to do it in Turkish and so on so forth.

00:22:55 --> 00:22:59

He's had a massive impact that in fact checks. But he was the man

00:22:59 --> 00:23:03

side notice he died in 1960. He's had a massive impact. And it could

00:23:03 --> 00:23:08

be said that Sheikh Sheikh, but he was a monster. Ignosi has a

00:23:08 --> 00:23:11

massive influence of Sheikh Mohammed said Hindi.

00:23:12 --> 00:23:15

If you go back to the subcontinent, and it's not just

00:23:15 --> 00:23:19

there, it's in Iraq. I lose the sheikh Khalid Necromunda, who came

00:23:19 --> 00:23:23

and became a student of one of the grand descendants of Sheikh

00:23:23 --> 00:23:26

Mohammed said Hindi and then he went and he spread this Naqshbandi

00:23:27 --> 00:23:31

in Syria, Imam ignore Abilene, the famous theologian, famous

00:23:31 --> 00:23:35

jurisprudence jurist, he was of that Tariq, Imam Lucia and a

00:23:35 --> 00:23:36

number of others.

00:23:37 --> 00:23:40

Now, going back to the subcontinent shall when you learn

00:23:40 --> 00:23:43

his sons and their whole enterprise may have not been

00:23:43 --> 00:23:47

possible, had it not been for the devotional work and foundations

00:23:47 --> 00:23:50

laid down by Sheikh Mohammed said in the earlier right,

00:23:51 --> 00:23:54

then if it were not for the show, will you love family, then they

00:23:54 --> 00:23:58

may have not been a Sheikh Mohammed Sheikh Ahmed Shaheed and

00:23:58 --> 00:24:01

his movement and his reform movement and had it not been for

00:24:01 --> 00:24:05

Sheikh Ahmed Shaheed, that may have not been a * Abdullah

00:24:06 --> 00:24:09

followed by the likes of Sheikh Kasim nanotube Rashid Ahmed Ganga

00:24:09 --> 00:24:13

Hakimullah Manasa utami Muhammad Ilyas condyle, and thus they may

00:24:13 --> 00:24:16

have not been adopted on duben, notably eg Ahmad and many other

00:24:16 --> 00:24:21

many other movements. So the reform movements didn't just start

00:24:21 --> 00:24:25

in Durban in 1867. It started well before that you can trace it all

00:24:25 --> 00:24:28

the way up to Sheikh Ahmed sir Hindi and before that, why you

00:24:28 --> 00:24:32

didn't GST and above and above and above, all the way obviously to

00:24:32 --> 00:24:36

the Prophet sallallahu sallam. So Sheikh Ahmed said Hindi is

00:24:36 --> 00:24:39

responsible number of other things like reviving the next 2030 from

00:24:39 --> 00:24:45

17 lessons to 35 lessons and and so on. Now, just just to finish

00:24:45 --> 00:24:49

off in the two minutes, how far has this reached and where has

00:24:49 --> 00:24:53

this gone? I say Sheikh Hamza would never have had this in his

00:24:53 --> 00:24:59

mind of where in 400 years, his his teaching could have reached

00:24:59 --> 00:24:59

him.

00:25:00 --> 00:25:03

Today the teachings inspired by Sheikh Ahmed sir Hindi and others

00:25:03 --> 00:25:06

obviously are found in most of the western Western world. In Europe,

00:25:06 --> 00:25:11

Americas Africa, Australia, Asia, for example, in Indonesia, a large

00:25:11 --> 00:25:16

mother Saudi with 12,000 students, in a place called Tembo teaches

00:25:16 --> 00:25:19

the Naqshbandi Majidi path that was inspired by Sheikh Mohammed

00:25:19 --> 00:25:25

sir Hindi. Likewise, what a small place in Punjab calls that hint in

00:25:25 --> 00:25:30

India, right? Have you ever heard of certain? Yeah, okay, has

00:25:30 --> 00:25:34

produced waves of piety, not only around the subcontinent, but also

00:25:34 --> 00:25:37

beyond in places to where its inhabitants migrated and set up

00:25:37 --> 00:25:43

seminaries, such as Barry, UK, buffalo, USA, and also two lands

00:25:43 --> 00:25:46

from where individuals came to the subcontinent to drink from its

00:25:46 --> 00:25:50

fountains of religious devotion and divine knowledge. So

00:25:52 --> 00:25:55

that's a short excursion.

00:25:56 --> 00:26:02

May May the legacy, the legacy of devotion of the subcontinent

00:26:02 --> 00:26:08

continue on as we move on, we have many more countries to get to. And

00:26:08 --> 00:26:10

may it continue. Welcome to dharana Al hamdu, lillahi rabbil

00:26:10 --> 00:26:11

adic.

00:26:12 --> 00:26:16

Thank you very much. Very informative paper. And thank you

00:26:16 --> 00:26:17

for keeping the time.

00:26:18 --> 00:26:21

I'm going to throw this open to the floor before I do, I'll take

00:26:21 --> 00:26:24

the prerogative of the chair.

00:26:25 --> 00:26:28

You you address that? Partially.

00:26:29 --> 00:26:32

But I'm wondering if I can press you just a little bit on it, which

00:26:32 --> 00:26:38

is in terms of short answer, hint, these impact and effect far beyond

00:26:38 --> 00:26:43

India. So you did mention certain geographical spaces like Turkey

00:26:43 --> 00:26:49

and Iraq, and of course, we're Indians migrated elsewhere. But

00:26:49 --> 00:26:51

you also linked this primarily.

00:26:53 --> 00:26:57

Although not exclusively, because videos as an Nordsee wasn't an

00:26:57 --> 00:27:01

expenditure of his of his line. He may well have been of another line

00:27:01 --> 00:27:02

but not have that line.

00:27:04 --> 00:27:11

You linked mostly his impact to followers of historical were their

00:27:11 --> 00:27:12

study, I'm sorry.

00:27:14 --> 00:27:18

of history of the yes of the next one, the magenta datoria line,

00:27:18 --> 00:27:23

which of course goes through him. Were there any other impacts on

00:27:23 --> 00:27:25

the Islamic sciences more generally, in terms of how they

00:27:25 --> 00:27:30

were taught or practice or so on elsewhere, that existed outside of

00:27:30 --> 00:27:32

inheritors or modes of historical

00:27:33 --> 00:27:37

now, I don't think we can exclusively relate everything back

00:27:37 --> 00:27:42

to him. He just plays a major part in removing the dismantling the

00:27:42 --> 00:27:46

Dena Elahi. And, and then after that, setting up the reform work

00:27:46 --> 00:27:50

of purifying the corruptions into sort of coming from a Sufi. So I

00:27:50 --> 00:27:52

think what he does is it lays down the foundation that obviously

00:27:52 --> 00:27:55

gives mashallah see, because I think for 200 centuries from

00:27:55 --> 00:27:58

Sheikh Mohammed, the Chesty Rahim Oh, last time for 200 centuries,

00:27:58 --> 00:28:01

you had the ascendancy of the tissues throughout the

00:28:01 --> 00:28:06

subcontinent. And after I think it was after the fourth, the fifth

00:28:06 --> 00:28:11

one, I forget his name. After that, it was the ascendancy of the

00:28:11 --> 00:28:15

next seven days, and that lasted for about three to four centuries.

00:28:15 --> 00:28:18

And then after that with * Abdullah, it looks like he was

00:28:18 --> 00:28:23

initially he was initially with a Naqshbandi che, who passed away

00:28:23 --> 00:28:26

and then after that, he moved to a GSD shape, and thereafter that the

00:28:26 --> 00:28:30

Chishti was enlivened again. And right now we're seeing, you know,

00:28:30 --> 00:28:32

that's what we're seeing. So now there's been, there's least not

00:28:32 --> 00:28:33

exclusively for sure.

00:28:36 --> 00:28:40

Okay, if you could raise your hand, and I will come to an order.

00:28:40 --> 00:28:42

So we'll go here, and then they're in sha, Allah and

00:28:44 --> 00:28:44

Bismillah.

00:28:45 --> 00:28:49

Yeah, thank you very much for an excellent talk. I'm saying talk

00:28:49 --> 00:28:53

because I couldn't get your paper. So I couldn't read it. Yeah, I

00:28:53 --> 00:28:57

didn't. Anyway, it's an excellent paper. And there are two ways to

00:28:57 --> 00:29:02

read this paper. One is the way you are describing the personality

00:29:02 --> 00:29:07

and the historical context in which MSR Hindi lived and worked.

00:29:08 --> 00:29:11

The other way is that what is the takeaway of this? And shall we put

00:29:11 --> 00:29:15

it in a different perspective to draw different meanings of this

00:29:15 --> 00:29:20

paper? And I'm interested in the later part of it, because you are

00:29:20 --> 00:29:24

in a way very interestingly, pointing towards a contest between

00:29:24 --> 00:29:29

the religious discourses as well as political power. And this is

00:29:29 --> 00:29:34

very significant, because whenever we think of idea of heritage in

00:29:34 --> 00:29:38

subcontinent and especially in post colonial India, it is very

00:29:38 --> 00:29:43

important to for us as Indian Muslims, that what could be the

00:29:43 --> 00:29:46

important component of the medieval times which should be

00:29:46 --> 00:29:51

commemorated in a positive way. And your talk the ways in which

00:29:51 --> 00:29:57

you are linking amateur Hindi, which will EULA and later for

00:29:57 --> 00:29:59

instance, Maulana Madani I think

00:30:00 --> 00:30:05

It provides a different idea of heritage in which we can assert

00:30:05 --> 00:30:10

that a dividing line was always drawn between political power and

00:30:10 --> 00:30:14

the religious assertion. So the devotion assertion was in a way to

00:30:14 --> 00:30:20

use a very complicated term secular was always there that you

00:30:20 --> 00:30:25

can accommodate different people without giving up your essential

00:30:25 --> 00:30:30

Islamic pneus in a way, that you would always remain Islamic, but

00:30:30 --> 00:30:34

at the same time, you would open up and at the same time, you would

00:30:34 --> 00:30:38

also assert yourself against the established political power. So if

00:30:38 --> 00:30:42

that is the case, then there is a strong possibility to think of

00:30:42 --> 00:30:47

this idea of heritage, which makes us more Islamic, more open, in

00:30:47 --> 00:30:52

comparison to Muslim rule. So if you look at the blame game that is

00:30:52 --> 00:30:57

played out in contemporary India, that Muslims are treated as if

00:30:57 --> 00:31:01

whatsoever done by the Muslim rulers in medieval India, the

00:31:01 --> 00:31:05

contemporary Muslim communities are responsible for that. If I

00:31:05 --> 00:31:09

take from you this important reformulation of the idea of

00:31:09 --> 00:31:13

heritage, then we can certainly find an answer. No, we are not

00:31:13 --> 00:31:17

responsible, what ogba date of what all exempted, we can

00:31:17 --> 00:31:22

certainly say that we being an Islamic, being a Muslim, as a

00:31:22 --> 00:31:26

practicing Islamic communities, we have a different notion of

00:31:26 --> 00:31:30

heritage, and this notion of heritage is still surviving. So I

00:31:30 --> 00:31:33

think that's the most important takeaway is from Thank you very

00:31:33 --> 00:31:39

much. I appreciate that. I again, because I'm not so aware of the

00:31:39 --> 00:31:42

exact dynamics in India right now. But that's a really interesting

00:31:42 --> 00:31:46

point that it's always been, our devotion has always been the most

00:31:46 --> 00:31:48

important because that's the powerhouse, that's the heart.

00:31:49 --> 00:31:53

That's what keeps our faith see us. And politics is something that

00:31:53 --> 00:31:58

is has to be adjusted and adapted to what the need is of that time.

00:31:58 --> 00:32:02

And despite being you know, on this path of devotion, it doesn't

00:32:02 --> 00:32:05

stop you as Sheikh Hussein admitted his legacy shows us of

00:32:05 --> 00:32:08

being part of the politics. So what hamdulillah is like a lot

00:32:08 --> 00:32:09

here for them.

00:32:15 --> 00:32:16

Please go ahead.

00:32:19 --> 00:32:24

Mike, my question is more in the form of a clarification. This is

00:32:24 --> 00:32:27

certainly not my domain of knowledge. So so there are too

00:32:27 --> 00:32:29

many names where it's not mine as well. So

00:32:30 --> 00:32:36

so so. So, what I understand out of this is this. So there is this

00:32:36 --> 00:32:41

gentleman who has been able to revive a tradition, right and

00:32:41 --> 00:32:45

which has now global influence, right? That's the basic argument.

00:32:46 --> 00:32:51

Now the question is this that that is also the guy who brain was to

00:32:51 --> 00:32:56

my brain was Jahangir. Akbar son about the nail? I don't know if I

00:32:56 --> 00:33:02

agree with brainwashed but but if I asked this question, what led to

00:33:02 --> 00:33:07

the end of the Malay, for instance, what caused the end of

00:33:07 --> 00:33:10

the delay the entire project? Because I basically wanted to be a

00:33:10 --> 00:33:11

prophet, right?

00:33:12 --> 00:33:17

How did the How did it end? It's basically it's his son, who who

00:33:17 --> 00:33:20

basically disregarded everything that his father had done, someone

00:33:20 --> 00:33:24

must have convinced him or on his own he has considered. So John

00:33:24 --> 00:33:28

Galia. So, so obviously revival comes in the context of the West

00:33:28 --> 00:33:31

some decline that had happened, and there is somebody who's trying

00:33:31 --> 00:33:32

to revive a tradition about

00:33:33 --> 00:33:39

so now the question is this, that, and which I think, in my

00:33:39 --> 00:33:43

understanding is probably a weak link. And I'm interested, if you

00:33:43 --> 00:33:48

could shed some light on that, which is, if I suggest that the

00:33:48 --> 00:33:54

global success of whatever evidence that we see outside the

00:33:54 --> 00:33:59

continent is less about the merit of this particular tradition more

00:33:59 --> 00:34:03

about the intrapreneur ability of his followers. Will that be a good

00:34:03 --> 00:34:07

argument? The interpretive ability you said intrapreneurial

00:34:07 --> 00:34:10

intrapreneur entrepreneur? Yes, then to a certain degree,

00:34:11 --> 00:34:14

that's as a vehicle for this.

00:34:15 --> 00:34:18

I think my my point was that I mean, it's not because of his

00:34:18 --> 00:34:21

teachings that people spread around the world. That's just an

00:34:21 --> 00:34:25

Indian thing. You know, that's just Indian entrepreneurs you know

00:34:25 --> 00:34:29

going around the world but had it not been for his work you could

00:34:29 --> 00:34:31

have said they would have been a different scene wherever they did

00:34:31 --> 00:34:33

go they will probably would have still gone but it may have been a

00:34:33 --> 00:34:34

totally different scene.

00:34:36 --> 00:34:40

Okay, we serve time for several more questions. So I have one here

00:34:40 --> 00:34:45

and then here any others to be put down? No okay type Bismillah Masha

00:34:45 --> 00:34:45

Allah excellent talk.

00:34:47 --> 00:34:51

One of the underlying aspects or rather the methodology adopted by

00:34:51 --> 00:34:56

this great shave was a long term strategy or other the the way he

00:34:56 --> 00:34:59

adopt the he envisioned the change that

00:35:00 --> 00:35:03

has to be made in that particular society. It wasn't as if just to

00:35:03 --> 00:35:08

pass a fatwa. Okay, this is not done. He was someone who vision

00:35:08 --> 00:35:13

something like which they, like will bear fruit, three generations

00:35:13 --> 00:35:16

down the line four generations down the line. So I have a rather

00:35:17 --> 00:35:21

concerned or masquerading as a Gaussian perhaps, that in the

00:35:21 --> 00:35:26

present times the present olema, the scholarship that we have more

00:35:26 --> 00:35:32

particularly in the institutional set of setup, What kind are we

00:35:32 --> 00:35:35

really following such kind of things are drawing inspiration

00:35:35 --> 00:35:40

from such long term vision kind of thing? Like, okay, fine, this,

00:35:40 --> 00:35:44

this is not happening according to Islam. So that's one part. And the

00:35:44 --> 00:35:48

second question, which may is linked or direct indirectly? Is

00:35:48 --> 00:35:53

that each generation or each century, or perhaps centuries have

00:35:53 --> 00:35:57

a language? Which is there? For instance, Ocean was once the

00:35:57 --> 00:36:00

language of the elites, arguably, English is the language of the

00:36:00 --> 00:36:04

elites in the past few centuries? Or perhaps for the next few? And

00:36:04 --> 00:36:09

maybe Chinese next years? Okay, so sorry, maybe Chinese next, have we

00:36:09 --> 00:36:13

you never know. But at present in general, in India, or increasingly

00:36:13 --> 00:36:17

across the world, anyone who is being considered to be educated is

00:36:17 --> 00:36:22

well versed in English. So the present elites, so called elites,

00:36:22 --> 00:36:26

people who are in the government, or they know, how are they in the

00:36:26 --> 00:36:32

policymaking? Or people who are really thinkers, they are actually

00:36:32 --> 00:36:35

cut off with such kind of scholarship and work. I appreciate

00:36:35 --> 00:36:40

so. So what do you suggest? Or what are the steps that you

00:36:40 --> 00:36:43

suggest? I mean, I'm just concerned, okay, that we can do

00:36:43 --> 00:36:48

for that. So firstly, I doubt that Sheikh Mohammed said Hindi was a

00:36:48 --> 00:36:51

loved one, and I doubt he was ever, ever told that what's your

00:36:51 --> 00:36:55

five year plan, your 10 year plan and your 20 year plan? I would

00:36:55 --> 00:36:59

doubt that he would have it may have been I think what he probably

00:36:59 --> 00:37:04

saw was the corruption. And this is the this is those people, Allah

00:37:04 --> 00:37:07

subhanaw taala is going to take, you know, except for his service

00:37:07 --> 00:37:11

like that, they have that natural vision, right, that this is

00:37:11 --> 00:37:15

corrupt, this is going in the wrong direction. If we if I don't

00:37:15 --> 00:37:18

see this as my responsibility, then I'm in trouble. You have to

00:37:18 --> 00:37:21

see it as your responsibility. You have to have the capability, the

00:37:21 --> 00:37:23

proficiency and a number of other things. And that all came together

00:37:23 --> 00:37:27

in SHEIKH AHMED sir Hindi I think so that's what I think. And I

00:37:27 --> 00:37:30

don't think we disagree there. Anyway, in terms of the vision, I

00:37:30 --> 00:37:34

think what you're talking about is lava to comb. Right lava to comb

00:37:34 --> 00:37:39

that is extremely important is that we are able to converse in

00:37:39 --> 00:37:43

the dominant comb the dominant people who are setting the trends.

00:37:43 --> 00:37:46

So as you highlighted English probably is the is the language is

00:37:46 --> 00:37:52

the lingua franca of the column as such, and for that to happen in

00:37:52 --> 00:37:56

England Alhamdulillah. I mean, we in the West were native speakers,

00:37:56 --> 00:37:59

so all the other mother graduate there, they speak English, but

00:37:59 --> 00:38:02

unfortunately, they could do much better. And there's always an

00:38:02 --> 00:38:06

emphasis that heighten your language, because in order there

00:38:06 --> 00:38:09

isn't, I mean, there is a slang but most people who are educated

00:38:09 --> 00:38:13

they speak a decent form of eloquent or do, right. Whereas in

00:38:13 --> 00:38:18

English, we have a problem. Even in English speaking countries,

00:38:18 --> 00:38:22

that a lot of our own, may just be speaking a slang or colloquial at

00:38:22 --> 00:38:27

least form of language. So our constant like in our madrasa, this

00:38:27 --> 00:38:29

is what we're constantly pushing them to do that you need to learn

00:38:29 --> 00:38:33

the Loja to comb when somebody listens to you, they can't tell

00:38:33 --> 00:38:37

the difference. They, they they are amazed by what you say,

00:38:37 --> 00:38:40

because language is a carrier. And it's a vehicle and that's very

00:38:40 --> 00:38:44

important. So we need a lot more. But in India, I've seen this that

00:38:44 --> 00:38:47

when I go to Bangalore, for example, out of the 4 million

00:38:47 --> 00:38:51

Muslims there 1 million speak English. I've even gone there and

00:38:51 --> 00:38:54

told them off. But I think I'm wasting my time. When I've gone to

00:38:54 --> 00:38:57

Pakistan, I insist on speaking or to do but there's no speak English

00:38:57 --> 00:39:00

always nobody's going to listen to you. So there's a massive problem

00:39:00 --> 00:39:04

in Indian subcontinent and Pakistan, that if the ALMA don't

00:39:04 --> 00:39:09

start conversing inaudible, then we're going to lose people.

00:39:10 --> 00:39:14

We're already losing people. So I'm concerned that translations in

00:39:14 --> 00:39:19

all the sorry, I'm concerned or rather search great works. They

00:39:19 --> 00:39:22

are just for people who node goodwill do in fact, yeah, they're

00:39:22 --> 00:39:26

not open for us. Like the common people who don't know No, in that

00:39:26 --> 00:39:28

front of hamdulillah number of books are being translated to

00:39:28 --> 00:39:29

English was yeah, here.

00:39:30 --> 00:39:35

Yeah, hereby is there. white thread and Torah publishing, we've

00:39:35 --> 00:39:39

published a number of translated books in good quality language

00:39:39 --> 00:39:44

that anybody will pick up and inshallah be able to, and now for

00:39:44 --> 00:39:47

the Indian market, because the Indian market, you know, you can't

00:39:47 --> 00:39:51

pay 10 pounds for a book. Right? That's 1000 rupees. No, no, it's

00:39:51 --> 00:39:55

Yeah, I think so. Now we've actually having select books

00:39:55 --> 00:39:58

published in India in English through in store, I'll just plug

00:39:58 --> 00:39:59

it right now. In store

00:40:00 --> 00:40:05

dot i n is it India dot iron and they actually publishing there you

00:40:05 --> 00:40:07

have some good printing presses so inshallah that will become more

00:40:07 --> 00:40:10

but we need to do a lot more martial law just need to market

00:40:10 --> 00:40:14

that well it's very much needed general perception across the

00:40:14 --> 00:40:19

board is that whatever is it Islamic or search works or

00:40:19 --> 00:40:24

something or for two and 1400 years old and unless that is given

00:40:24 --> 00:40:28

in the language that we understand the the Modern Language its

00:40:28 --> 00:40:30

challenge mashallah very colorful.

00:40:32 --> 00:40:36

Okay, this will be our final question, which I'll have to ask

00:40:36 --> 00:40:41

you to make it brief as we need to move on to the closing session.

00:40:42 --> 00:40:46

And no question but I just want to suggest two three things. The

00:40:46 --> 00:40:47

Arrival not a very

00:40:49 --> 00:40:53

telling they will really started bad but it died it's natural dead

00:40:53 --> 00:40:58

within much time. Only a few numbers of the people were to

00:40:58 --> 00:41:02

please the Emperor accepted it. And it is very interesting to note

00:41:02 --> 00:41:07

that once advert told Raja Man Singh I knew to adopt this denial

00:41:07 --> 00:41:12

I said changeu I know only Hinduism and Islam. If you say I

00:41:12 --> 00:41:14

become a Muslim, but I didn't know that.

00:41:16 --> 00:41:19

But there were some events in the society for that year mo syringic

00:41:20 --> 00:41:25

took the task is religion with the trustees his father was a trustee,

00:41:25 --> 00:41:30

and two important thing from his life I have been recorded. And I

00:41:30 --> 00:41:34

think that you must have gone to Freidman Jonas book concerto

00:41:34 --> 00:41:38

mastering the Bradman loners were very interesting and very in

00:41:38 --> 00:41:41

detail, what's his name? Right, Yona

00:41:42 --> 00:41:43

Friedman,

00:41:44 --> 00:41:46

I will use the name, I'll take it from Julia.

00:41:48 --> 00:41:51

She had me she didn't even Witchita Admir shrine, he was

00:41:51 --> 00:41:56

offered a closed street from the shrines people. And he took it

00:41:56 --> 00:42:01

with all respect, in spite of all his spirit in thought, and you see

00:42:01 --> 00:42:06

beliefs and told the people that Digitas this will be my when you

00:42:06 --> 00:42:11

this is beneficial for me in the other part. So please bear with

00:42:11 --> 00:42:16

me. But it could not be possible at the time of death. So you must

00:42:16 --> 00:42:18

also highlight some religions.

00:42:19 --> 00:42:24

She remembers Hindi. And more importantly, he appointed his son

00:42:25 --> 00:42:27

Anca umiya. At Edgemere.

00:42:28 --> 00:42:33

As well, are you Merkel umiya, to concept of a union, I think you'll

00:42:33 --> 00:42:37

notice Did you meet the concept of a union in that next one, these

00:42:38 --> 00:42:42

can zoom Can you mean that find your means you must see to it. So

00:42:42 --> 00:42:46

instead of kalaba instead of the six surgeon, they are known as a

00:42:46 --> 00:42:50

unit and he appointed his son autonomy. To get the blessing

00:42:50 --> 00:42:54

sermon interesting. There are some suggestions that you can dissolve

00:42:55 --> 00:42:59

the point of a lecture is to encourage people to act to get

00:42:59 --> 00:43:04

further and inspiration and encouragement, persuasion. The

00:43:04 --> 00:43:08

next step is to actually start learning seriously to read books

00:43:08 --> 00:43:11

to take on a subject of Islam and to understand all the subjects of

00:43:11 --> 00:43:15

Islam at least at the basic level, so that we can become more aware

00:43:15 --> 00:43:19

of what our deen wants from us. And that's why we started Rayyan

00:43:19 --> 00:43:25

courses so that you can actually take organize lectures on demand

00:43:25 --> 00:43:27

whenever you have free time, especially for example, the

00:43:27 --> 00:43:32

Islamic essentials course that we have on the Islamic essentials

00:43:32 --> 00:43:36

certificate which you take 20 Short modules and at the end of

00:43:36 --> 00:43:41

that insha Allah you will have gotten the basics of most of the

00:43:41 --> 00:43:44

most important topics in Islam and you'll feel a lot more confident.

00:43:44 --> 00:43:47

You don't have to leave lectures behind you can continue to live,

00:43:47 --> 00:43:50

you know to listen to lectures, but you need to have this more

00:43:50 --> 00:43:54

sustained study as well as aka la harem Salam aleikum wa rahmatullah

00:43:54 --> 00:43:54

wa barakato.

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