Abdur Rahman ibn Yusuf Mangera – Podcast Discussing Islam in the West Dr Mangera
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hated. So it depends on where you started first. So for example,
where I studied, the teachers I studied with, I have absolutely no
complaints against any of them except one complaint. And that's a
compassionate complaint. And if you really want to study your
study, otherwise you didn't people go to study just to get away from
home. Right? So it depends on where you are. You can't say
University is all the same, likewise, or others are not the
same command like, you know, this is not even regulated. Do you see
what I'm saying? So it depends on your experience depends on what
you're looking for, and where you're coming from. And if you
have a trauma or something I said, every thought alone recognizes in
the world. That's how I use it all that there's $50,000 loans in the
world, and they will all recognize if the extent is good. If they
take the exam, they will accept this name calling me saying I'm
behind two older Auntie's that look like they've just got off the
plane, but they've got the most British accent out there. They
like your multi generation. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it is. I mean,
yeah, I think it's mostly because I think you guys had something
where only Lebanese and Turkish good Kuwait, Australia, the White
Australia Policy.
Salam aleikum wa rahmatullah wa barakato. Welcome to the magic
carpark podcast episode 60 from memory with a 60 Anyway, today we
have a very special podcast for you with some special guests.
While we wait for Shala to get off his phone. Right? You've done 60
or 80? Yeah. Alhamdulillah.
Yeah, we did to Harlem's welcome,
masha Allah, welcome with the Dr. Mufti Abdul Rahman, from the UK.
And we have brother tell her but I think to introduce the two
properly, we'll hand it over to our illustrious companion over
here. Go from me. Okay. He's very self conscious today.
Hello, hello. Today we have the ramen use of manga from London. I
had the pleasure to meet him many many years ago in London is one of
the highlights of my trip there hamdulillah and establish a
connection and over the years, with the sub has advised me Due to
the extensive experience on various matters, like how doodles
in the masjid and so forth, as an example,
contacted Musab regarding a mystery how to actually approach
it does with his different mother hip and mashallah sub the advice
that he gave? I think I've followed for about two years. So
So Masha Allah is studied in the UK, the only two years what
happened after that? I had to stop that I had to stop none of that
advice continued was continued till now it's
but the that stopped a nice start in another place. But mashallah
sobs a graduate of Donaldson barre, and then study the thigh
Dharamsala, Korea, also study Musa masala alongside on board and also
in Syria, and mashallah did his PhD, if I remember correctly in
sauce. So SOS sorry. And hamdulillah like he's studied, is
well known. We don't need no introduction. But hamdullah has
blessed our land in Australia, the big brown Land Down Under, far
away from everywhere in the world.
Every from everywhere. Someone's nervous.
Because you guys, you guys are
following me in between. Any time I'm lucky, keep going. started
some more brother.
Just like
I think New Zealand is further out. doesn't really count. It's
like a Pacific Island.
From the
US anyway, and also we have battle hobos good from Melbourne Muslim
seminary, correct. And somehow he's a student I moved up the
ramen had the opportunity to attend couple of his classes on
reading manuscripts at the Cambridge Muslim College. Okay,
Michelle, instead, just bring the mic be closer. Yeah, yeah. Since
then. I've been following with the Simon he's socials and through
zooms and academies and hundreds I think it's, it's really a blessing
for the Melbourne community to have Musab Down Under and
hamdulillah the seminary is fortunate enough to host him today
for Iftar Allah we can now there's a lot of us goods, muskets,
baskets. Your translates to The Great Wolf in Turkey. Okay, cool.
Well, nationalist
totem as they call it, okay, how could you must have caught the
wolf
mashallah,
in the UK in study, I was online No, I was there in 2000 was there
physically physically how was he moved to sub give us give us the
real truth? Yeah, I didn't get to see him that often. But when I did
see him is really good. Mashallah. That must be representative of how
he used my brain still at this stage of wanting to call it
getting advice from anyone.
That's a pretty big deal.
And is it in 2001? I was your teacher as well. So I'm gonna put
myself
grades while you're in college. That in the results in your
seventh year seven actual. So we have a shared student. And
firstly, finished therapy for that year or is it still continuing?
Now that was a good was a good, good Elon College. We're going
there today actually, I haven't been there since 2001. So I
visited last year right now is the head office.
But we're going to the actual Inverloch campus where I was
teaching you. Okay, that'd be blast from the past inshallah.
Okay. How long ago was that? 2001. We were there we carried by he was
a principal and, and we were
September 11 happened. We had a day off. If you remember. Like, we
were saying I had a day off was up from reliving. Yeah. This was such
a shocking event. Like, they were trying to process like what's, you
know, and they felt that it was yeah, we got a day off. I think we
were there. The teachers were there. But the students got the
day off the reasons to avoid Yeah, from the community. They were
there. There are backlashes for those sorts of things.
Unfortunately, like even when the Bali one happened, then our Masjid
got attacked, like the next day. So it was I think they were just
being cautious.
This up like, this is the podcast at the masjid carpark so much the
car park meaning the brothers they meet outside in the car park, and
sometimes it's so that's what we've taught. And you can play
with them with somebody who will not tell you hear me? Yeah.
Yeah, so they're using this opportunity to arrest me now?
No,
just because we had such a short amount of time with you. You're
this is what number trip is is Australia. I think it's the fourth
one. Okay. So now you have a good idea or second time. Second time
to Melbourne for Australia. Last year, you came to Melbourne this
year. What's the couple to be honest, before I came to
Australia, hearing about certain things in the media. There were
certain politicians that did some weird things about hijab and niqab
and things like, several years ago, I can't remember what it was
like, I just, you have this idea. And I've noticed that this is
usually the case that you you usually hear the worst things of
any country. And then when you actually go there, you find out
that it's not actually that bad. In fact, from my interaction with
many Muslims and some non Muslims here, I found it's actually very
pleasant to be honest, you know, it's not bad at all. It's actually
very good. Muslims are seemingly doing quite well, of course, we've
got challenges everywhere. But Australia is not a bad place. I
mean, it's a really nice place. I mean, it's just too far for two to
come settle yellow light here this time. This time, I think it was,
what, 12 hours to Singapore, and then another 600 Something hours
to here. So with some stopover in between. So yeah, I mean, nearly
22 hours or something like that altogether. Okay. So besides that
fact, I mean, it's a nice place. And Marsha, I think the Muslims
are doing well. Of course, there's challenges everywhere, but that's
the nature of the dunya of the world itself. So Insha Allah, may
Allah allow it to prosper? I mean, I mean, and like what you compare
it like, I, the UK as a South Asian Muslim, was because we have
Turkish rather than Turkish and but there's another there's
another title outside Lebanese, Lebanese. And so
like, that's we used to very different. So as a South Asian
Muslim, when I went to the into to London and to UK, he felt he was,
you know, he was talking about the YG that said, we this is what we
missed that in our childhood, you know, like you now we have a lot
of like Indian cuisine and all that sort of stuff. But when we're
growing up, we were like,
we're a rarity. You know, like, I remember him calling me saying I'm
behind two older aunties that look like they've just got off the
plane. But they've got the most British accent out there. They
like your multi generation. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it is. I mean,
yeah, I think it's multi because I think you guys had something where
only Lebanese and Turks could come on Australia, the White Australia
Policy. Then after that the mass immigration that was till the
early 70s, where they had what literally what nearly 470 years or
something they had a white only from the turn of the century,
early 20th century. So all the early Turks, Arabs, Albanians,
Bosnians, all protons, I mean, what about Pashtoon? batons a
quite
often, we are white. We will probably white for India, but not
white for
Australia. We probably didn't pass the test but we got in there. But
the Pashtoon they did come here.
Yeah, we Yeah. Before with the government's Yeah. How are you
with camels nowadays, right? No, no, I can't.
But in England, I think we started in the 1960s the mass migration
we've had Muslims throughout
post World War 219 This is when the whole communities came in. So
I think we're telling you like 60 to 70 years now in England Yeah,
that's it's a little bit older than Australia probably Yeah. Yes
probably almost generation Nigeria's as well with England.
It's not just it's a little bit older however, in terms of this,
my understanding of is when it comes to the institutions, or
establishment of modalities, um, you guys are lightyears ahead of
us I think multiple reasons for that number one people. I mean, if
you compare to America, right, so in America, people went there for
education. So it was mostly academics that went there
initially and professionals whereas in England, it was people
from the villages they literally came with lock stock and barrel
madrasa, Masjid Imam, Mufti, everything. And the first thing
they established was Mother resource. So village migrated.
Well, I mean, that means a lot of lots and lots of people migrated.
I mean, it was an entire village. I mean, there are some villages
are totally empty. But then they when I say Gujarat, for example, I
can speak about this Pakistan is Kashmir, there's lots of people of
Bangladesh. The Navy had the Somalis, and we've had the
Algerians and we've had Turks, huge amounts of Turks. So there's
a politan. But you see, England is very small compared to America or
Australia. It's much more concentrated. That's right, right.
And everything is close by here. We're driving to Masjid in
England. That's crazy crazy to drive to a masjid you move the
Brahim
one or the other HOXA younger brother. He came here last year.
He said he said you guys have a warped sense of distance. He said
I'm going to do it just three kilometers up the road because
that's that's not that's because there's 15 Mustard walking
distance from his house in Leicester three kilometers is a
long distance for me. Literally. I've got two masters walking
distance. Well, no fat five musters walking distance within
1520 minutes. And within a 10 minute drive, there's at least
more than 10 messages within just a 10 minute drive. Yeah, easy.
We've got
we've got three from where we are
to help what's foreclosure.
And Coolaroo how much within the 10 minutes
depends on who's driving. But that's you but the over there just
as masjid and even sometimes as anisul Speak Like in East London
or something like that. Yeah. I mean, like, it's, it is very
concentrated and even I realize academically, like when you see
the you know what we, for us, it's like suburbs, almost they like a
car that's list is just there, Sheffield, like when you see the
signs on trains, or everything is just next to just very close. I
mean, the longest distance we go in England is about four to five
hours maximum. Yeah, driving, you know, that's it. And then if you
want to go to Glasgow, which is Scotland, we might do it.
An hour flight or seven hours, but we hardly drive the let's just
take a flight but that's it. Yeah. Okay. You know, maximum is
probably about 12 hours. That's why when I'm Dixon job, I'm one
half an hour away. Yeah, that was a long distance. For us. That's in
London. That's still okay. Because to get from East London to West
London, takes over an hour. It's easier to get from East London to
Cambridge, which is another town 50 miles away.
Because it's your outside then. But for for London, if I go to
West London, that's literally another city for us. South London
is another city for us. It's very complicated. London is London, he
says, like Sydney, I think. And because of that, like I noticed
that the institute's are so close. Yeah. And they're sort of there's
a lot of cross pollination, and they're benefiting. Cambridge is
just the Oxford is just there. And even like, even when I was at
Brahim college, I sort of understood a little bit why, like
you have, then you'll have connections with Cambridge and or
even law shell, Dr. Murad or so forth, just because they're just
so close to each other. So they'll have joined programs or assist
each other and the resources are shared, probably better. We're
here we sort of these little islands, that distance from each
other. So in East London, where I stay, there's at least 15 There's
probably more than that now, but there's at least 15 madrasahs that
are teaching up to nearly up to Sahil Buhari for men and women. My
show 15 of them are shown. Right. Yeah, that was when I counted
last. Well, so classes, full classes. Yeah. Wouldn't that make
the luck in terms of the output of that the output be so great in
London, that is saturated with the saturation of like, there is I
mean, Hamdulillah. I'm done. But you see, what we have to really
understand. And I think this will be something that's transferable
is that not every area of London is like that. You've got certain
areas which we call boroughs of London, like Hackney, Ilford new
home, Tower Hamlets, where it's very, very well catered. Because
you've had such a sheer output of local optima, local heirlooms,
local scholars and argument. You've got them catering for every
segment of society. We can still do more, but for every segment
You've got children's classes to adult classes to women's classes
at multiple levels sure there are classes you want to specialize in
Cara you got Cara, of course is going on. You got everything.
However, there's other boroughs which are not so well. Not so well
catered for in London itself. You go to Barnet, Kingston, etc. Why
not? Well, because and this is what it is. The sacrifice of these
individuals in these areas is that they took their children when they
were young and sent them to study. Right? Right, because they weren't
no local places to study, send them to study, they came back and
they're catering for the area. Most people stay within the same
area. Whereas the others are probably more focused on secular
education instead, there's plenty of Muslims in those Oh, yeah. Oh,
there's massive Masjid. But they just don't have the same kind of
Ottawa. Like there's one massive area with multiple big Masjid in
West London. But they've only got about seven or 10 scholars.
Whereas in my local area where I was born, there's about 1000, half
visitors.
At least Chava in just Hackney or Clapton alone is at least 1000.
Who five? So that's quite something quite interesting for us
here. Because when you when you're talking about sending people, some
borrow send people to see because it might keep going out.
He's very particular about my advice. No, because you keep
going. So some borrowers so you look better with their headphones
on.
I I'm very excited
about it. Right. So you've got some areas where they did send
their parents where the parents sent the kids off. I think that
might be what's required here. I think they did that in the back
then. But I'm saying for now they did. This is sending their kids to
look Barry and Jewsbury. Wherever.
And, you know, that's what we used to do before. Okay, now, the big
mattresses, the boarding ones there. We don't need to go there
anymore. Because, you know, the graduates they've literally come
home and started off in local intimacy. That's why we're talking
about 15 locally here, right? That you're gonna have to do that.
Because if you keep trying to import whims, you're you're going
to struggle that because it's a culture clash, a number of other
things. Yeah. And, sorry.
These like the large boarding witnesses, the old ones, like
Barry and Jewsbury. Now, the do you have, like boarding mattresses
in London are good? Are they more like there's one? There's one,
there's one boarding mother's in London? Only from London is now
from London. Yes. Okay. Yeah, just Just on that point, the question
is often posed, you know, where shall we go to study sacred
knowledge? Would you say now that the answers are more now localized
in the there isn't much need to travel abroad, especially in the
clinical? And that's what's happened context of England?
Obviously, probably not here, we're not there. But would you
would you sort of more confidently direct them to one of these data
alone? You see, it's much easier to go local, because it's within
the country, no visa issues, no culture issues and things like
that. Also, after 911, and so on, there's issues with number of
countries where you have to have very specialist visas, and usually
can't get them England, for example, has stopped all
foreigners from coming to study there. That's right, right. So
people in Barbados, people in
Panama, and all of these places, they no longer can come or
Trinidad another they can't come to them study, which is in a
blessing in disguise because now you've got a mother, you've got a
full fledged alum in Panama. Yeah, and, and Barbados, and so on. So I
think this is what creates demand. It's like you can't stop this is
going to happen somewhere else. sha Allah hamdulillah that's one
of the things that impressed me in my observations of England is when
I was just sorry, if you bring speak louder, not just not just
bring close to very softly spoken.
Okay, right. Is your 70 slams perfect studies, teachers therapy.
The difference? Yeah, sorry. You're saying I was impressed by
the response. So when I asked you know, some of the students at CMC
they you know, where do you where do you study? And And the
challenge was, they're speaking like with a Bangladeshi Bengali
accent, Indian accent, and like I said in Daraa, alumina berry or
Jews bureau of Birmingham, so, I'm like, no, no, would you study to
become an Olympus Okay, here Shala. Like, you still have an
accent. He's like, I was born and raised here as well. So it's quite
impressive. Lebanese accent now they can preserve not only their
culture, but also raise up right.
And also, just on that point, it wasn't just I know, there's a lot
of challenges with the current classical model curriculum and so
but I was impressed with how they could actually contextualize the
knowledge to a certain extent as well and how they were aware of
contemporary realities despite just going through the thought
system that might be exemptions but that was I have a lot of even
today in that Whatsapp group. You know, the discussion was there and
I made a few comments on it like as well that there's some WhatsApp
and local education Whatsapp group and I
No, no like the i I'm always suspicious of the reforms. This is
my personal I'm a bit too traditional maybe for that. What
do you mean by that? You gotta clarify. It's, there are certain
maybe off the side can elaborate like, you know, this pressure
constantly to update or to add things. Maybe some items feel like
oh, we need to change like the, the adding in there is it's a big
topic. So look every mother. So when I say 15 madrasahs, and in
England, maybe a few 100. They're not all the same. He says there's
the Joe Bloggs madrasahs there's the very good ones. And there's
some decent ones. Yeah, that's going to be across the I mean,
universities have rankings, whether this is the same thing,
you can't expect that from every single one of these data rooms,
that you're going to get a top notch scholar, because that's just
not going to happen, because there's quality differences. So
what we're doing at white thread is we're just trying to raise the
standard by taking graduates and trying to raise that standard.
Because some places, they just do things very easily. It's just
like, Okay, you study a bit or whatever, but they don't, they're
not really particular about the academics like really pushing them
to do that. There's nothing wrong, I think with the curriculum,
because the curriculum is a modern curriculum. Anyway, the original
Dulcinea Dhami curriculum was many years longer. And it was very
different. There's just some of those books are still there, we
already have changed. I think, I don't want to get into this. But
really, what we need is you just need, the way it's taught needs to
be changed, is the teacher. So the more aware the teacher is of the
context, the better he'll be able to deliver that same book, and
that same core content. That's, that's my understanding, use the
same syllabus. It's just the way you articulate it. And the way you
contextualize it. Everybody can't do that. But we're getting there.
And the big challenge was this when our first scholars came from
India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, etc, the older generation, they came in
a different world. Yeah. So world has changed, you have to
understand that in 50 years, the world has changed, as is never
changed in history. Like literally let that sink in. The world has
not changed in in about 50 to 100 years as it's never has changed.
Because it's never changed in history, the advancements in
technology in our own lifetime. I mean, you know, yeah, I mean,
mobile phones, you know, and so on, and so forth. Windows 3.1. To
know, Windows to now windows, I don't know what it's on right now.
It's a massive change. The older generation couldn't adapt, because
it wasn't for them to do that. Now that the newer generation, those
who they taught, my generation is teaching, were in sync with all of
this kind of stuff. Yeah. So it's changing. Now, before there was a
complaint. I think that's getting that that's getting sorted now.
And it's only going to get better because come on, I mean, anybody
who's going to teach now who's going to study through the system
now and is going to become a teacher, they have to be aware of
all of these things. Yes. Right, that our older teachers weren't,
but now they everybody is. So whatever it is sort of like other
than actually teaching the class society specialization or sub
specializations. There is also like a Camille as well, like get
them. The students sort of abreast with the with all that what a
fella was mentioning regarding contextualization, or today's
needs contextualization and advancement, because after six
years of study, it doesn't complete there. That's only a
beginning. I mean, I tell that to everybody, anybody who thinks
this, it's the finish the end of it that you know, you really don't
know what you're talking about, right? So you need to carry on. So
that's why we provide those advanced courses, but not just as
advanced courses, we also try to then make it contextualized. And
just get them an understanding of how you deliver this in the modern
world, because the modern world has changed. Because you've
yourself has, you're coming from a traditional background in your
Islamic academia, but also you did.
University education, how did you find like, there's a lot of a lot
of young alums, like they sort of, I've seen young darlings go into
academia. And it didn't turn out so good. I sometimes, you know,
worried because I have an opportunity to do it. I mean, but
it didn't turn out. So Well, would you mean, the campus sort of them?
So I don't think we can generalize in this at all, because there's a
number. So there's so I'm talking about the specific people just
saying it's not. So what it is, is that I don't think this can be
replicated. So it depends on where you studied first. So for example,
where I studied the teachers I studied with, I have absolutely no
complaints against any of them except one complaint. And that's a
compassionate complaint. That didn't make me memorize enough.
You know, didn't force me to memorize big texts, because I
would have that's only feel I think, I feel a sense of loss and
but that's just not part of our tradition. It will it is and part
of the older classical tradition of memorizing major milestones and
big text and so on, but that's a compassionate complaint I have
right. I have no other complaint. So when I went to university, I
appreciated what I was getting from there, but I never felt that
I was the
This was better. Yeah. There's there's some who studied in maybe
are not studied well enough. They've had good teachers, but
they messed around in madrasa. Right. Right, they went into it.
Now they're blaming the mothers. And in some cases, the mothers are
maybe to blame, or some teachers are to blame that didn't give them
the best that they could have got. Now they go to university and they
compare. I saw no comparison, I saw a different system that I
could take from its unique points. And that's what I that's what I've
tried to do. So it depends on who you are, what your experience has
been, and why you're going to university for others is the
difference in comparison, is that not every university is top
either? That's correct, right. Some universities, it's just a
play school. I've been to many have spoken at many universities.
Yeah, right. I've lived close to certain universities and the
parties, you started Thursday. Right? And if you really want to
study you study, otherwise you didn't people go to study just to
get away from home. Right? Yeah. So it depends on where you are.
You can't say University is all the same. Likewise, others are not
the same. Come on, like, you know, this is not even regulated. Do you
see what I'm saying? So it depends on your experience depends on what
you're looking for, and where you're coming from. And if you
have a trauma or something, so how do you if you're, whether it's in
the madrasa or if you're a Muslim parent, and you've taught your
kids Quran and things like that, what would you say to somebody
going into university? Like you're saying, where you're coming from?
How do you stop those mistakes? Or what's so who's going into
university? So the student is going to university? Is he an
animal? He's not? We're talking about Polymer. Okay. Yeah. Am I
here? I mean, the whole university discussion that will lead to No,
there will be another podcast. So what would you say about alumina?
And so what? What is the responsibility of the teachers
before they send them in there?
How can I teach you prepare his student? I mean, do they? Do they
even have to go? Right? It just depends on why you want to go
there. Why do you want to go into academia? I'll say that our che
che use of Metalla Rahim Allah has passed away now, he actually
started encouraging the graduates to go to university. Yeah, I read
something also about his, he was encouraged by the thesis writing
in even part of the like in the Alim course, at the end, they
should be writing a detail longer thesis
may have been a later development, it wasn't in our time, but he
definitely encouraged to go to university. I was in America at
that time, I'd graduated at least 1012 years. And then when I heard
this, I was like, What is he doing? He's may shake, but I was
like, What is he doing? But now I understand. So what he what his
thought idea was, is that we've prepared you enough to be able to
go into university and protect yourself. He literally said that,
to some of the students who are a bit concerned that haven't we
taught you enough here to protect yourself. But why did he send them
there? So I think he sent them there. Because every island
because we have so many, as we said, so many graduates, they're
not all going to be Imams because there's not that many Westerners
to go around, they're not all going to be able to teach and make
a living, for example. So I think our sheiks idea was, go into the
various different fields, become a farmers become an engineer, become
a doctor, become whatever else you want, you've got your LM and your
piety to continue. And you can actually infuse these various
different areas, you know, with some ethics in sha Allah, and also
make a living for yourself and be somebody that you know, can
contribute to society on multiple levels. That's what I think he
did. So for example, from our mothers from the graduates is at
least now, at least six or seven, I think we have peace PhDs now.
And in his lifetime, he's kept two programs, graduation programs at
the Mother Teresa, for those who got PhDs elsewhere that he would
that they would be salary celebrated in the mother. So I
actually miss my one because I was abroad, right when he kept the
second one. But he was really his idea was the ILM should become
mainstream. So you could be a an engineer, or a doctor, or a
lawyer, or whatever else it is along with being an Adam. That was
his vision, I think.
Yeah, and so other than why trade you also teaching some some
Academy, so
they just lectures is just, okay, motivation lectures, we've got
like over 1200 lectures on the, the ideas that we saw, so I would
broadly split the, this whole kind of educational environment into
four. So one is general motivational lectures you have,
right, just regularly anybody can listen to, but then from that
we're trying to push people to the second level, which is for the
general masses, not to become a scholar, but to get more
structured courses. So that's the second level and I think you guys
are trying, you guys are doing something like that. Number three
is the full fledged Olim or adimec course, like an in depth study to
become a scholar, right or a leader or something like that.
Then after that is the postgraduate stuff for personal
development. So we are in three areas and we're just missing one
area. So we are
We've got some some Academy, that's for the general lectures
like 12 and lectures on that, then we've got Rayyan courses or Rayyan
Institute, which is for the general public courses online on
demand, then we don't do an ollie Mollema course why? Because
there's already so many out there, we try not to replicate, we try to
fill a gap. That's what we're trying to do. So then we've got
1000s of Olimar around the world English speaking world. So now
we're, we've got white thread Institute, which is then providing
for the books graduate scene, right? So you become a scholar,
wherever you are good or bad, you did it well or not coming. So
we've got refresher courses on there for scholars, and we've got
an advancement courses. So we're literally just trying to fill a
gap shallow.
And just tell the Muslim, Melbourne, Melbourne Muslim
seminary, and witness witness, what's the courses that are, so we
only have one primary course.
I guess it's an amalgamation of the Father iron and a couple of
introductory sciences into the humanities, such as making of the
modern mind and Islamic civilization. So we have three
terms. The first one looks at what Saul, Saul Quran filk, zero and
nothing either. Okay. And then second term we have Making of the
Modern mind we have
Islamic civilization that were felt to, and also all sorts of
Hadith. And then finally, we have
counseling and psychology and the final course, in addition to test
care, Islamic community, and one more that I can't recall. And
finally, there's a selective component. So they either do a
research chaplaincy program or a
Tober course. Okay? So it's, it's, it's not an in depth course. But
the intention is similar to what Mufti said is just to connect them
establish that beginning and hopefully from there, encourage
them to sounds like every Muslim college with elements
if I remember correctly,
said there's a lot of not good. Mashallah. So and your base and
your class are running out of Elam colleges to them, I guess overall
in in them college on the Sydney road or five campuses. Okay,
Michelle, the one on the head office. There's a school there.
Okay, but your classes are in the Inverloch. Invalid Christmas Alex
campus. I think as you would probably observe as well, the, the
connection to the scholarly tradition here isn't as deep as it
is in the UK. So especially in the non sub continental communities,
it's a bit weaker. So we want to, I guess, be a platform to begin
that journey for a lot of the students. Mashallah, it's a very
strange thing to say in Australia. Okay, we're doing a madrasa and in
the madrasa, we're going to produce islands in Australia and
it's not run by an off because the idea of at least in communities,
is some ministry has to run this. What do you mean you're going to
be teaching karate in the mosque? Or you're teaching field and
Sharia law? It doesn't it doesn't it doesn't. Amada says like in the
masjid just in the masjid that we presented them on the roster to
six, seven massages in Melbourne. And finally, one of the
Bangladeshi masjid they they understood the brothers and stood
at a meeting, they were happy, they were in tears.
They our communities. And they and because the masjid we it's our
biggest resource out there in terms of amount of money we put in
Australia and the whole this 10 There's several mustards being
built at the moment, they're all over $10 million in Australia, and
in Sydney specially. And they just sit empty the whole day. Exactly.
Yeah, like we don't need even other buildings for it. And our
footprint for madrasahs is so small like in terms of small discs
in on the floor. And I mean, it's there might be other places
sitting and table and chairs, but like it's so small that you can
pack away the mother aside like we've packed away and at the end
of the day for the Mussolini's we pack it away, put it in the
corner, and then the rest is gone. Now it's a masjid. So but sadly
like, but try and explain it to people like, okay, so which
University recognizes this, and they're always looking at
accreditation is like I said, every dollar loom recognizes in
the world. That's how you can say all that. There's $50,000 looms in
the world, and they will all recognize if the extent is good.
If they take the exam, they will accept this. So you got to you
know, it's a bit of wordplay, but it's true.
Our students have gone on to study in South Africa in you know, they
they set the entry exam for second third, fourth year. They got in
those classes stream into Malaysia did Muscat with us, 50 with us.
One of the I was really worried for the first batch, because like
it's you've been sitting with six years teaching like you're doing
anything. Right. And then in Malaysia on Dr. Arden monosyllable
Hanson, Shahid Rahmatullah. He's McDonald home in Malaysia. So it
is so he so we send the students there and they took the exam and
he's the move the the Mufti day he sent a message back from Pakistan.
He said foster foster foster
in South Africa. Good luck. Are you succeeding? Succeeding
succeeding? Sharla looks at but he was he was just happy with the
standard
Standard with this like, you're always worried, you know, like, am
I wasting the students time? Or are they actually getting any
benefit but the idea of doing mattresses I think was we seen it
as well. Like in our in Pakistan in North like one of the I forgot
the name of the ship, very senior
tip my tongue he used to come in teachable Heidi just take his
child that off is shawl, wrap it up with Buhari, that's one of the
other after book of Allah, you know, in the mattresses, it's
probably the most prestigious seat, you know, book to read, to
teach the shekel had some other assassin agencies to take a shawl
off rapid, and then give them a hurry on it with such simplicity.
So but this is something because we've been conditioned to a
certain way of education has to be a standard should be then when it
gets bigger, all those structures and things come into place and
organization becomes stablished. But you're right, the general
community or the subcontinent community sort of spoiled like a
little bit they they don't appreciate having so many of ours
and modalities and they take it for granted maybe
compared to maybe other communities think they take it for
granted in Australia. I don't think so. They monitoring
Australia, they might not even ask the subcontinent.
Yeah,
you have to we have to we have to wrap up just lasting five minutes
inshallah. So don't go yet. The sub you wrote this book on
marriage. So this is mashallah an original work.
I went through it either you can read it before marriage as guide
guidance, or you can read it after marriage and make a stuffer and
feel for all the places you've gone wrong.
Me In other words, you were discussing the book and the
advices. And it's really, it's a really good book, Michelle, and I
enjoy the read and advices in it, and shall we get Sofia to
implement and practice it
Inshallah, and all of us in sha Allah, and but there was
something, this is a book,
a lot of the issues that come as an Imam, they come to myself, it's
like, almost, there's very little you can say, because it's like,
they're like, a mindset in a therapy is their way of thinking
is there in the individual that they can't make it work because
there's there's so it's not like one advice. It's like they're on
totally different wavelengths, the couple can be of different
wavelengths, her understandings of what a marriage is totally skewed.
His his understanding is like, he's telling his wife, you have to
go bring, you have to work. But these are these are solid
discussions that we had. And there's some basic premises like
missing basic Islamic understandings that are missing
therapy, should not Keller talks about this in his book, see what
that show is a section of marriage. And he says about, well,
he gives advice to mothers, and the same would apply to sons as
well.
It's got to, because we preparing, like, even when you're giving
information, but the therapy side of thing, where did they get that?
And if they don't have parents who can teach him? Like he has not
said that? Many mothers mistake a good education for? That would be
that'd be a. And so if that whole is their therapy is not given?
Where would they? Are we talking about bringing up children now?
It's more about young adults, children that will become I mean,
yeah, you have to start from a young age, you can't wake up when
they're 16. And then say I need to teach you now.
That's my next book, insha Allah, about bringing up children. I've
been thinking about that for a while that you can't just switch
on afterwards, when things start going wrong. And you start
noticing signs and you thinking, oh, I need to do something about
this. You need to literally direct it from a young age. So that the
tarbiyah is done, because tarbiyah is a flock, it's character. Yeah,
that has to be ingrained from a young age. And I think it can be
right and all you have to do is you just have to work on your
first one or two. If you have more children, you only have to work on
your first one or two, believe me, they will help you sort the rest
out. It is really, really useful to do that way. It's not that
difficult, but you have to be on the ball from the beginning.
Right. And I guess it's a new thing that people don't understand
the West is because there's the outside community is very, very
powerful. It's very challenging. Before you never used to be like
that, because we were in very homogenous societies and
communities. Everybody in the village did the same thing.
Everybody in town did the same thing. Everybody thought the same
way. Everybody was on the same wavelength. We're dealing with
individualism, post modernism, relative truths and things like
that. And you know, you're finding it difficult to get a daughter
thinking the same way as a mother or something and say they don't
even want to carry on their businesses unless they're very
easy businesses I've seen. It's a whole new scenario we're dealing
with you have to start from a young age and you have so you
literally have to adjust,
you know, to that and be flexible and it's you can't win
In every battle
but that's a whole stat. Yeah. Subject. Yeah, this lucky one
young man was saying he wants to marry a doctor. So why? And he
said, Please don't bring the money in. He's a young Muslim man. You
know like I mean this is like he's he's so he doesn't understand you
have to explain to give them a sit down and said No, listen, might
even you get married, you're responsible for the household and
the finances and this is like, this isn't your Islamic
obligations, you'd have to bring one sent to you. Exactly. You
know, if she's a millionaire, she doesn't have to. So like these
are, these are all these little holes activity said, I want a
doctor so that I don't have to go to doctors and I've got a home
beside, I'd appreciate that.
The family is a nice thing. You know, you need a doctor in the
family.
So it's a that'll be a database start young. Yeah, exactly. Mold
the mold from a young, younger age, we have this whole thing at
the moment, the young men, especially the whole red pill, and
there's all movements online, where they're molding, entertain,
entertain, etc. Or the likes of people, the red pill movements,
all these they're trying to mold the next generation of young men,
and it's having an impact in England, especially they, it was
brought up in parliament in England, and they were discussing
because they didn't give tarbiyah or they just sort of lifted and
these people, rightly or wrongly, whatever, they may have certain
things right and certain things wrong. But they are filling in the
void. Exactly. Yeah, there's negative tarbiyah going on there.
Somebody's trying to provide positive therapy, even here in
Australia as well. And this boys, and it was an article, and they
kept the teacher's name and whatever. And she's, she the
students are high school boys. They're telling her you know,
guys, you shouldn't be working should be in the kitchen sort of
things like, oh, yeah, like the impact is huge. And they're
worried now, because it's affecting like more than 50% of
boys, those 50% of boys. They're the net 50% of men of the future.
And they're going to be they've internalized all these ideas. So
that's why it was coming up in Parliament, so forth. So the
therapy is pretty strong. The external therapy is, I think it's
just going back to docile, isn't it? That's why it appeals because
it is the muscle, it is the original, it is the default in
terms of like, it taps into something that isn't it. I mean, I
think the name, I mean, you can call it a throw, you can call it
evolutionary you can call it whatever you want. It's like in
the theater or something that it has. That's why it resonates like
it. It broke through all the programming of decades, just
within within one year, like we were raised up, we're in the
generation that the self esteem movement, I remember in the 80s,
we were taken out of class, I was taken out, we were taken out and
was a special class held. It's called a selfless if you read
about it, the self esteem movement. And these experiments is
a social experiments that have been done in primary school don't
remember, I remember like, they will teach you anything, it makes
sense. Because it wasn't like a normal subject. You're not
studying anything. They're talking about your feelings, and they're
trying to boost your esteem self, there's a whole thing about you
know, this whole, everyone gets a trophy. And all that that started,
our generation was corrupted they did at tarbiyah at a very, then
you start thinking back all the things that were being said to
you. I think
I did have several Lisa selfesteem slogans that they I do think back
to high school in Australia and think Yeah, well, look,
there was a lot of things that we were taught, we were taught to
believe is what is successful for the future, which is incorrect,
which you can see now there was an agenda behind it. And I think the
only reason we can see that is because we were brought up in the
West. Our parents couldn't say that I don't think let me use
agenda and might be strong word but it's, it's an agenda. I have,
like a It's a conspiracy theory category. And I don't want to be
there. But I think but I think but I think there there was decisions
made in the Education Department. And then they will start at the
implementers by design by design. Yeah, I think that's why you got a
lot of self esteem though, right?
At the end of the podcast to have a little bit more and not really
not really.
I was a I was 1100 students. I was like those three Muslims and we
used to get bullied like anything. It was the worst. Yeah, it was it
was we came out of it alright humbler? He actually goes home and
covers himself in the show
yeah, we came back button Yeah, we came out of it. We're going to
change make the whole Australian Muslim
Sharla just like on the phone with the sub. Really I want to talk
more about zamzam and white thread and all the other projects and
good work so you're doing just a time please do get this book
inshallah it's really it's a it's a worthwhile read. There's a
shipment arriving Shall I will talk about at some other time. It
takes a long time mashallah that you don't have these and no, it
wasn't, I know it wasn't no. Next Next. Okay, that's right.
Inshallah, I think someone always stalks these ones.
For fun Sharla will PDF it and we'll share it on our channel.
So,
let's copyright. Just go ahead with the subject like Allah.
Thank you for watching, please like, subscribe and press the bell
icon. Till next time salaam alaikum. Salam. The point of a
lecture is to encourage people to act to get further an inspiration
and encouragement, persuasion. The next step is to actually start
learning seriously to read books to take on a subject of Islam and
to understand all the subjects of Islam at least at the basic level,
so that we can become more aware of what our deen wants from us.
And that's why we started Rayyan courses so that you can actually
take organize lectures on demand whenever you have free time,
especially for example, the Islamic essentials course that we
have on the Islamic essentials certificate which you take 20
Short modules and at the end of that insha Allah you will have
gotten the basics of most of the most important topics in Islam and
you'll feel a lot more confident. You don't have to leave lectures
behind you can continue to live, you know, to listen to lectures,
but you need to have this more sustained study as well just like
Allah Hyrum salaam aleikum wa rahmatullah wa barakato.