Abdal Hakim Murad – Abdurrahman Wahid Paradigms of Leadership

Abdal Hakim Murad
AI: Summary ©
The history and cultural context of the Islamized region of Java in impressions of the rainforest in Southern Guinea is discussed, including political and cultural events such as violent riots leading to deadly terrorist behavior. The President of Indonesia is wary of the media and the presence of the army, while Benjamin Gostor is mentioned as a candidate. The Olamath's hesitation to run a modern state and the importance of understanding the difference between Islam and modernity are also discussed.
AI: Transcript ©
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So I've lost count of, where we are

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in this open ended series of,

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inhaling some of the blessings of,

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those who have gone by and who continue

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to teach, sometimes at a distance of 1000

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of years and,

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1000 of miles.

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My scholars used to say, by remembering them

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does the mercy descend.

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There's a certain fragrance

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that attaches to their life and works

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and the recollection

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of their,

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inward lives that can

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be therapeutic to those of us who live

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in this time of plenty and of uproar.

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So as well as these being little snippets

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of biodata, data, these paradigms of leadership lectures,

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inshallah, allow us in some mysterious mystical way,

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to feel our hearts connecting

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to the on going spiritual presence

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of those who have,

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really shaped the life of the Ummah

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by the grace of God.

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So, today I want to

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move to,

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what is increasingly becoming

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central

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to the Islamic world intellectually even though geographically

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we assume that it's on the, the margins,

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which is,

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the

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very complex

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country of Indonesia.

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Some of you, I suspect, will

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have accompanied us on the CMC tour of

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Java. There

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are some videos entitled The Inward Land, which

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are on our

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website, which were I think it's not free.

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It's behind

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humble paywall.

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You can get some sense of

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what we did when we were there. And

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the amazingness,

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of the whole experience to those who are

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familiar with the view that says Islam is

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kind of centered in the Middle East. Of

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course, demographically most Muslims in the world live

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east of Karachi.

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Very often people, including journalists, tend to forget

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that the center of gravity for the Ummah

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is

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further east

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Omer is further east even than Pakistan. Indonesia,

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the world's most populous Muslim country.

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Indonesia, the country that has more Islamic universities

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than all the Arab countries put together.

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About 23%

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of Indonesian students go to Islamic universities, which

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is much higher than Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Iraq,

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those places.

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Significant place,

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and a country which

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there's arguments

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about religious movements there.

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But last year there was a survey by

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Pew which reckoned that 93%

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of the Indonesian population self identifies as Muslim.

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Maybe 10,000

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inhabited islands.

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No country really is like that. Maybe 200

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major languages,

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different races,

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6 official religions. It's in many ways the

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most complicated

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national space for Islam to operate in and

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yet clearly it's thriving. Part of the miraculous

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proof of the universality

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of Muhammad and Revelation is the fact that

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from this very specifically Arabian dusty town in

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the 7th century,

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it fits

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so neatly the spiritual needs of spiritual needs

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of people living in the rainforest in Southern

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Sumatra. And,

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yeah, it turns out to be particular in

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its origins,

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universal in its appeal.

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So

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I don't want to do too much of

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the history.

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And again,

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the Inwood Land lectures, I think, give it

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in somewhat more detail.

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Essentially, Islamized from the 13th century onwards by

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Muslims from the Cham Kingdom, which is kind

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of

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former Muslim areas of Kampuchea,

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Laos,

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southern coast of Vietnam.

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Now there's still Muslims there but really diminished

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following various

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colonial and communist,

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genocides.

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Although I remember that the very beloved

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imam of the Azhar Students Mosque when I

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was living in Cairo is actually a Cham

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Muslim Kampuchean

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very, very beautiful,

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luminous young man. Gujarat is also involved basically

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traders because if you want to get from

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India to China, Europe less, through the Sunda

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Straits.

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You would have to go through the Straits

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of Malacca. Less through the Sundar Straits, you

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would have to go through the Strait of

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Malacca,

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the difficult tidal waters between Sumatra

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and North

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Java. It was the

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the nautical equivalent of the Silk Route and

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therefore,

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cosmopolitan

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from a fairly

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a place like that is

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the

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a place like that, is the enormous,

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almost indefinite diversity

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of the cultures

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of

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this nation,

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which in its current borders is more or

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less left over from various colonial arrangements between

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the British and the Portuguese

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and the Dutch,

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but which has that I suppose will be

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our main theme today. The question of how

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Islam can function as a therapeutic

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and a unifying force in such a, colossomy

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diverse

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and un Arabian

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cultural space.

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So Islamization

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begins in the coast and then it pushes

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inland.

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Java is where the great ancient civilizations are,

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the ancient Hindu kingdom of Majapahit.

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And famously, it's the Wali Songon. And those

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who are with us,

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you may recall those

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bus rides 4 o'clock in the morning, lurching

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down the Javanese roads going from shrine to

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shrine. It was quite it was quite a

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night.

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But those 9 saints are the ones who

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are popularly credited with the Islamization

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of Java. Basically, it's the the Nakshbandi and

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Qadiri Tariqas that did the work so that

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Java is today the

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world's most populous island and has, like, a

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90%

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Muslim population. So they did their work well.

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Then the Dutch turn up.

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Dutch colonialism

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is not very

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agreeable.

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After all, they're the ones who start the

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kind of racial hierarchy in South Africa.

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The Afrikana mentality comes from a certain type

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of Calvinistic

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collection of ideas about, about,

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biblical assumptions about race and,

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so they have a hard time. And in

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fact, if you go to,

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Cape Town, you'll find that Cape Town is

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ringed with what they call the Kramats, which

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is

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the Indonesian

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Malayo word for a saint's tomb,

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including some really great ones.

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Makassari

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is a famous one outside Cape Town. He

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was one of the great commentators

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on Ibn Arabi,

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in Indonesia before the Dutch deported him. And,

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of course, they wouldn't allow these enslaved Muslim

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scholars from what's now Indonesia

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to take books with them,

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but they had them up here.

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So the Quran made the transition to the

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the the slave colony of Cape province and

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once they got out of the sight of

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the white man, they just wrote it all

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out

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again. Islam travels quite well under difficult

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circumstances.

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So, yep, the

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the the spiritual

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ancestry of the South African Cape province Muslims,

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they still called Cape Malays.

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Amazing people. So the Dutch,

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actually,

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paradoxically,

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unintentionally helped the spread of Islam by pushing

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the olema out of the major cities,

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which is where the Dutch want to trade

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with cloves and spices and the things that

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they're there for, and into more remote areas.

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And it's because of that outward push that

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Islam starts to succeed in in the hinterlands

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and the outlying

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islands.

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Our story today, which will be about,

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one particular,

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probably the most distinguished influential

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Indonesian

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Javanese

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Muslim scholar of the 20th century, Abdurrahman Wahid,

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known popularly as Gostur,

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who died only about 14 years ago, 2009,

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I think it was. So kind of very

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much part of our history,

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is the

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impact of colonialism,

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the humiliation of the white man with his

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fly whisk being carried by the local population

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in his sedan chair through the,

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former capital cities of of the proud

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Muslim land of of Java and how Islam

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was going

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to relate to this

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unexpected defeat by these people who came from

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such a remote place.

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Holland, they never heard of before and suddenly

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they're in charge of this spice rich,

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clove rich archipelago,

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really begins in the the 19th century and

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particularly in the city of Mecca.

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During the Ottoman period, Makkah was one of

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the great centers for intellectual exchange in the

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Islamic world. There were districts of Fulani,

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districts of Javanese,

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districts of Russians. It was a very cosmopolitan

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place and they all had their sheikhs who

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would have a particular column in the Haram

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mosque and would teach. It was like a

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university

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and because people would like to get to

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Hajj early,

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it could take 6 months to walk there

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from Nigeria.

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You wanted to get there early, and what

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you did while you were waiting was you

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attended classes.

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So the whole Haram in Makkah was like

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university in different languages

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and buzzing. And the great figure

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for our story, somebody called, Ahmed Khatib,

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Minangkabawi,

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late 19th century,

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the great Javanese master

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from the Minangkabau

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regional ethnic

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group.

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And he was the one who really, talking

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to the the Javanese Hajjis,

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raised an awareness of the need to resist

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colonialism

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using an Islamic discourse.

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Because some elements of Javanese society, particularly a

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group called the Priyayi, who are the,

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the the former kind of courtly classes

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in these very complex

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the Kraton is a palace complex,

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in in traditional Java with thousands of courtiers

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and employees. And if you go to the

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Kraton today in Yogyakarta,

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you can see some of the ceremonial,

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little old ladies in their ceremonial outfit in

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long procession

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carrying the Sultan's tea,

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walking in a particular way, it's very Indic

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and very beautiful in fact, but that class

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tended to be the local class that the

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Dutch wanted to use in order to create

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sort of bureaucrats and administrators, and,

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they didn't seem to be,

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the most likely basis for some sort of

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anti colonial

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resistance.

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Now,

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Sheikh Ahmed Khatib had 2 great disciples,

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Ahmed Dahlan

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and Sheikh Hashim Ash Ali.

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And these two individuals

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go on to found the movements which are

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the most active scholarly

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activist cultural movements in Indonesia today.

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So Sheikh Ahmed Dahlen founded a group called

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the Muhammadiyah,

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which nowadays might have 25,000,000,

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30,000,000 members all over Indonesia,

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which has the reputation of being a somewhat

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kind of modernist, Ahmed,

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Mohammed Abrador,

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Ahmed Amin,

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rationalizing

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contemporary interpretation

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of the religion. And then the other movement,

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which was founded

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by, Sheikh Hashem Ashari,

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in the year 1926

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is called the Nata del Olama,

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which is basically Ghazalian. You could say the

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Ikhya Ulamadin is historically its manifesto for how

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Islam

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ought to be

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and very Junadian

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in its,

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tasawaf.

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And today, the Naqat ul ul ulama might

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have maybe

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50,000,000

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followers,

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which makes it the largest organization in the

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whole Islamic world. It's kind of everywhere with

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little schools and dental clinics and orphanages and

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in all parts of Indonesia, including Papua and

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pretty remote places,

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they are

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active. And we'll talk about the dynamics of

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the relationship between these two sorts of followings

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of Sheikh Ahmed Khotayib and his little Meccan

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circle as we go through this,

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this discussion. And there's lots of other groups,

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particularly smaller

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outright Salafi groups influenced by the Saudi interpretation

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of the the beliefs of Mohammed bin Abdul

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Wahab.

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It's probably the case that this kind of

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tension between these 3 major

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tendencies

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made a lot of

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Indonesians

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who were thinking about national resistance

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a little bit doubtful about the extent to

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which Islam could really unify the Indonesian people

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and provide a a doctrinal basis for,

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resistance to the occupation.

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That's one reason why early Indonesian nationalism tends

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to be, well, just nationalistic,

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secular, and also one reason why communism

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starts to appear, perhaps, unexpectedly in this intensely

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Islamic area. Generally, communism doesn't get much traction

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in most parts of the Islamic world for

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obvious reasons. Indonesia, there's a powerful

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Communist Party, the suppression of which becomes one

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of the the big traumas,

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for the country.

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During the the 20th century, you have,

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an outpouring of new scholarship.

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It's a very scholarly kind of country.

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You have the idea of the Pessantren.

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Pesantren is this particular

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Islamic form of

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usually

00:14:14 --> 00:14:16

small town or rural

00:14:16 --> 00:14:17

Islamic college

00:14:18 --> 00:14:19

that isn't for them the same thing as

00:14:19 --> 00:14:21

a madrasa because a pasindren is a kind

00:14:21 --> 00:14:22

of boarding school.

00:14:23 --> 00:14:25

They might have a madrasa inside it, generally

00:14:25 --> 00:14:26

in the Indonesian

00:14:26 --> 00:14:29

sort of usage, madrassa is for dayboys,

00:14:30 --> 00:14:32

whereas the pasuntran is where you actually go

00:14:32 --> 00:14:32

to live.

00:14:33 --> 00:14:34

It's

00:14:34 --> 00:14:36

like a rather warm and uncomfortable

00:14:37 --> 00:14:38

English public school, perhaps,

00:14:39 --> 00:14:41

but very much scholarly oriented.

00:14:42 --> 00:14:43

And

00:14:43 --> 00:14:44

typically,

00:14:44 --> 00:14:45

the peasantry

00:14:46 --> 00:14:49

and boys will be working in the fields

00:14:49 --> 00:14:52

and actually making themselves useful, almost like medieval

00:14:52 --> 00:14:53

monasteries in in the UK. And you can

00:14:53 --> 00:14:55

see that there's maybe a 100,000 of these

00:14:55 --> 00:14:58

peasantrans all over Indonesia. You can still see

00:14:58 --> 00:14:59

that that way of,

00:15:00 --> 00:15:03

creating a self sufficient Islamic academic and spiritual

00:15:03 --> 00:15:04

community. They're very

00:15:05 --> 00:15:07

under the direction of the senior scholar, the

00:15:07 --> 00:15:10

kiai. Kiai is the traditional Indonesian word for

00:15:10 --> 00:15:11

for an alim.

00:15:12 --> 00:15:13

They,

00:15:14 --> 00:15:17

usually attach to to a tariqa, and there's

00:15:17 --> 00:15:19

a lot of wazifas, avkar,

00:15:19 --> 00:15:20

as well as the regular

00:15:21 --> 00:15:24

glasses. So 2 big tafsirs come out, tafsir

00:15:24 --> 00:15:26

al Azhar from Abdul Malik Amroulal, which is

00:15:26 --> 00:15:27

the first

00:15:27 --> 00:15:28

4 Indonesian

00:15:29 --> 00:15:30

tafsir, which is a bit closer to the

00:15:30 --> 00:15:31

Nader al Ulamah

00:15:32 --> 00:15:32

perspective,

00:15:33 --> 00:15:33

interpreting

00:15:34 --> 00:15:37

Islam through Ahmed Khatrib and the Minan Kaba

00:15:37 --> 00:15:38

local,

00:15:38 --> 00:15:39

tradition.

00:15:39 --> 00:15:42

And then Qari Shehab produces the Tafsir al

00:15:42 --> 00:15:44

Mishbaach, which is a bit more intellectual,

00:15:44 --> 00:15:46

relates to more abstract philosophical

00:15:47 --> 00:15:47

concerns.

00:15:48 --> 00:15:51

And you also have freelance individuals,

00:15:52 --> 00:15:54

one of the best known of whom in

00:15:54 --> 00:15:56

the 20th century was somebody called Harun Nasutian,

00:15:57 --> 00:15:59

who, tried to revise

00:15:59 --> 00:16:01

revive the tradition of Moctezilism.

00:16:03 --> 00:16:05

Not a kind of exact Baghdad, Moctezilism, but

00:16:06 --> 00:16:09

his understanding of the backwardness of Islam was

00:16:09 --> 00:16:11

not the Salafi understanding, that it's because we've

00:16:11 --> 00:16:14

got away from the sources, but rather that

00:16:14 --> 00:16:16

we've got away from reason and Europe is

00:16:16 --> 00:16:18

based on reason, and we need to rediscover

00:16:18 --> 00:16:20

the rationality of our religion if we're ever

00:16:20 --> 00:16:22

going to catch up with with the white

00:16:22 --> 00:16:25

man. So Harun Nasution, who becomes head of

00:16:25 --> 00:16:28

one of the major Islamic universities, is also,

00:16:28 --> 00:16:29

a very significant

00:16:30 --> 00:16:32

figure in this this complicated

00:16:32 --> 00:16:33

story.

00:16:34 --> 00:16:36

The backdrop in Java is,

00:16:36 --> 00:16:37

again, radically

00:16:38 --> 00:16:40

disparate levels of religiosity,

00:16:40 --> 00:16:42

which which goes on to shape

00:16:43 --> 00:16:44

scholarly activity,

00:16:44 --> 00:16:46

and also the politics.

00:16:46 --> 00:16:48

Most of the population, especially away from the

00:16:48 --> 00:16:50

major cities, are what used to be called

00:16:50 --> 00:16:51

Abangan,

00:16:51 --> 00:16:54

which is people who are nominally Muslim but

00:16:54 --> 00:16:56

may well form follow a kind of syncretistic,

00:16:57 --> 00:16:58

apparently shamanistic,

00:17:02 --> 00:17:05

hybrid of Islamic terminology with ancient Javanese

00:17:05 --> 00:17:06

mythology.

00:17:08 --> 00:17:09

And very often,

00:17:11 --> 00:17:14

communist groups and secular groups in the 20th

00:17:14 --> 00:17:15

century came out of those Abangan,

00:17:16 --> 00:17:17

nominally Muslim,

00:17:17 --> 00:17:20

communities who were intentioned with the other main

00:17:20 --> 00:17:22

group, which is called santri. I'm giving you

00:17:22 --> 00:17:24

the terminology because we're going to be using

00:17:24 --> 00:17:26

some of the jargon to make sense of

00:17:26 --> 00:17:28

the ghost story today.

00:17:28 --> 00:17:31

Santri are the kind of 5 daily prayers,

00:17:31 --> 00:17:32

normative

00:17:32 --> 00:17:33

Sharia

00:17:33 --> 00:17:35

observant Muslim minority.

00:17:36 --> 00:17:38

Maybe even in the mid 20th century, only

00:17:38 --> 00:17:41

10% of the Javanese population is actually

00:17:42 --> 00:17:42

going to mosques

00:17:43 --> 00:17:45

and, much of the population is still

00:17:46 --> 00:17:47

imperfectly Islamized.

00:17:49 --> 00:17:50

And then as well as this, you have

00:17:50 --> 00:17:53

the priayi class, which we mentioned, which is

00:17:53 --> 00:17:55

the the class associated with the traditional klaton

00:17:55 --> 00:17:59

or court culture, very often bound up with

00:17:59 --> 00:18:02

the, bureaucracy of Dutch colonial administration.

00:18:04 --> 00:18:06

So it's into this complicated world,

00:18:06 --> 00:18:08

a diverse Islam,

00:18:08 --> 00:18:11

influence is coming from the Javanese presence in

00:18:11 --> 00:18:12

the Middle East,

00:18:13 --> 00:18:16

arguments about should we be fundamentalists or rationalists,

00:18:18 --> 00:18:19

the reality of

00:18:22 --> 00:18:23

Dutch occupation,

00:18:24 --> 00:18:27

that today's hero is born in 1940,

00:18:30 --> 00:18:31

in East Java.

00:18:32 --> 00:18:34

East Java is the poorest part of,

00:18:35 --> 00:18:37

the island of Java,

00:18:38 --> 00:18:40

kind of the heartland of the Natatul Olamah,

00:18:40 --> 00:18:41

very traditionalist,

00:18:42 --> 00:18:42

not modernist,

00:18:43 --> 00:18:45

not rationalizing. And he's born in a pasandaran.

00:18:47 --> 00:18:49

That's his world. And this is Abdul Rahman

00:18:49 --> 00:18:51

Wahid, who is actually the grandson

00:18:52 --> 00:18:54

of the sheikh who we met earlier, Hashim

00:18:54 --> 00:18:56

Ashari, who you'll recall in the 1890s is

00:18:56 --> 00:18:59

studying in Mecca with Ahmed Khatri and who

00:18:59 --> 00:19:01

is the founder of the Natatul Ullama. So

00:19:01 --> 00:19:03

he's kind of from this dynasty.

00:19:04 --> 00:19:05

And because

00:19:05 --> 00:19:08

family connections are very important in Indonesian society,

00:19:08 --> 00:19:10

this helps to add to his

00:19:10 --> 00:19:13

sort of possibility and credibility later on. And

00:19:13 --> 00:19:15

that family is said to have been descendants

00:19:15 --> 00:19:16

of of one of the last Hindu kings

00:19:16 --> 00:19:17

of Majapahit,

00:19:18 --> 00:19:18

that they have

00:19:19 --> 00:19:20

a genealogy.

00:19:23 --> 00:19:24

So,

00:19:26 --> 00:19:28

this peasantry was opened by,

00:19:29 --> 00:19:30

Sheikh Ashari

00:19:31 --> 00:19:33

after his 7 years of studying in Makkou,

00:19:33 --> 00:19:36

Sheikh Ahmed Khattari. He opens the pesantrin 18/99.

00:19:37 --> 00:19:40

And characteristically, he chooses for the location

00:19:40 --> 00:19:41

the red light district.

00:19:42 --> 00:19:45

It's a characteristic of the Pesandaran culture.

00:19:46 --> 00:19:49

You put this nexus of Islamic

00:19:50 --> 00:19:51

therapy and rightness

00:19:52 --> 00:19:53

where it's most needed

00:19:53 --> 00:19:55

in order to clean up the neighborhood, in

00:19:55 --> 00:19:57

order to, if you like, shame the ladies

00:19:57 --> 00:19:58

of the night into

00:19:59 --> 00:20:00

mending their ways

00:20:01 --> 00:20:03

and the gentlemen who come to visit them

00:20:03 --> 00:20:05

and the drinkers and the opium dens.

00:20:06 --> 00:20:07

That's where you put

00:20:08 --> 00:20:09

religion. Now

00:20:10 --> 00:20:12

he is unusual in that he

00:20:13 --> 00:20:16

introduces modern languages and some modern subjects into

00:20:16 --> 00:20:17

the Pessantin

00:20:17 --> 00:20:18

curriculum

00:20:20 --> 00:20:22

and is also an outspoken

00:20:22 --> 00:20:25

campaigner against the Dutch occupation.

00:20:26 --> 00:20:28

So by bringing these things together,

00:20:28 --> 00:20:30

concern for the poor and social welfare,

00:20:31 --> 00:20:33

opposition to colonialism,

00:20:33 --> 00:20:37

and openness to learning about the Western world

00:20:37 --> 00:20:39

and learning Dutch, learning English, learning about modern

00:20:39 --> 00:20:40

sciences and so forth.

00:20:41 --> 00:20:42

He becomes

00:20:42 --> 00:20:44

really the key figure of his time, Hadrut

00:20:44 --> 00:20:46

e Sheik. They still call him that in

00:20:46 --> 00:20:47

Indonesia.

00:20:48 --> 00:20:51

So his son is Owahid Heshim, who also

00:20:51 --> 00:20:54

is born, grows up in the peasantra and

00:20:54 --> 00:20:56

marries Gostur's mother, Saleha.

00:20:58 --> 00:20:59

And

00:20:59 --> 00:21:01

Gusteau is born there, and they name their

00:21:01 --> 00:21:02

son.

00:21:03 --> 00:21:05

They've had 4 daughters, and then the son

00:21:05 --> 00:21:06

comes along,

00:21:07 --> 00:21:08

Abdulrahman ad Daghil.

00:21:10 --> 00:21:12

That's actually his name. Abdulrahman Warhid is Abdulrahman

00:21:12 --> 00:21:13

ad Daghil

00:21:14 --> 00:21:17

after, of course, the famous Umayyad prince who

00:21:17 --> 00:21:18

after many adventures

00:21:19 --> 00:21:21

enters Daghil. Al Andalus

00:21:21 --> 00:21:24

founds the great Umayyad caliphid of southern Spain,

00:21:24 --> 00:21:26

inspirational figure

00:21:26 --> 00:21:27

in Muslim history.

00:21:29 --> 00:21:32

And then suddenly, unexpectedly, the Dutch are booted

00:21:32 --> 00:21:34

out by the Japanese.

00:21:35 --> 00:21:37

Everybody has to bow to the symbol of

00:21:37 --> 00:21:40

the rising sun. This is an issue for

00:21:40 --> 00:21:42

the Qalamat. The Japanese create a new organization

00:21:42 --> 00:21:44

to control Islam, Shumomo,

00:21:45 --> 00:21:47

which tries to encourage the Muslims to worship

00:21:47 --> 00:21:48

the emperor.

00:21:49 --> 00:21:50

Doesn't go down too well.

00:21:51 --> 00:21:52

Riots, difficulty,

00:21:52 --> 00:21:53

and they're trying to get

00:21:54 --> 00:21:55

the Muslims

00:21:56 --> 00:21:59

who haven't enjoyed Western colonialism too much to

00:21:59 --> 00:22:01

sign up to the Japanese Greater East Asian

00:22:02 --> 00:22:04

co prosperity sphere. So they stop

00:22:04 --> 00:22:06

knocking them on the head for not bowing

00:22:06 --> 00:22:07

to the flag

00:22:08 --> 00:22:10

and figure out ways of co opting them.

00:22:10 --> 00:22:11

Waheed Hirshim is appointed

00:22:12 --> 00:22:13

to lead it.

00:22:14 --> 00:22:17

Difficult decision for him. The Japanese are not

00:22:17 --> 00:22:18

easy occupiers.

00:22:21 --> 00:22:23

But he he decides that this is an

00:22:23 --> 00:22:23

opportunity

00:22:24 --> 00:22:25

to try and build something new

00:22:26 --> 00:22:29

and to consolidate nationalism, which the Dutch had

00:22:30 --> 00:22:30

suppressed

00:22:31 --> 00:22:32

quite brutally.

00:22:33 --> 00:22:34

August 1945,

00:22:36 --> 00:22:38

2nd World War ends. Hiroshima and Nagasaki,

00:22:39 --> 00:22:41

the Japanese are still in Indonesia. It's not

00:22:41 --> 00:22:43

invaded by the Americans or the Australians like

00:22:43 --> 00:22:44

Manila or

00:22:45 --> 00:22:46

New Britain.

00:22:48 --> 00:22:49

The Japanese

00:22:50 --> 00:22:53

hand over their arms to the Indonesian nationalists.

00:22:55 --> 00:22:57

The Dutch pop up again saying, well, we

00:22:57 --> 00:22:59

want our farms and our factories and

00:23:00 --> 00:23:02

our mission stations and our comfortable

00:23:03 --> 00:23:04

colonial

00:23:04 --> 00:23:05

mansions. The Indonesians

00:23:06 --> 00:23:07

say, well,

00:23:08 --> 00:23:09

not so fast.

00:23:10 --> 00:23:12

And there's a kind of chaos

00:23:13 --> 00:23:15

and the British intervene in order to support

00:23:15 --> 00:23:17

the reestablishment of Dutch colonialism.

00:23:18 --> 00:23:21

And there's the famous or notorious Battle of

00:23:21 --> 00:23:21

Surabaya,

00:23:22 --> 00:23:25

where the British bring in the rajah still

00:23:25 --> 00:23:26

going Indian troops.

00:23:27 --> 00:23:30

And the Natadul Ullama and the Muhammadir declared

00:23:30 --> 00:23:31

jihad

00:23:31 --> 00:23:33

against the British and the Dutch

00:23:33 --> 00:23:36

the British basically by flattening the city with

00:23:36 --> 00:23:37

the RAF

00:23:37 --> 00:23:39

drive. The

00:23:41 --> 00:23:42

putative

00:23:42 --> 00:23:45

nationalist army from the city, but it's been

00:23:45 --> 00:23:46

so difficult.

00:23:47 --> 00:23:48

They decide,

00:23:48 --> 00:23:50

well, the nationalists are going to win sooner

00:23:50 --> 00:23:51

or later. The Indonesians

00:23:52 --> 00:23:55

don't like the idea of the Dutchmen coming

00:23:55 --> 00:23:57

back, and it's fairly clear that Dutch rule

00:23:57 --> 00:23:58

is

00:23:58 --> 00:23:59

going to be a thing of the past.

00:23:59 --> 00:24:02

There'll be some kind of transition. The British

00:24:02 --> 00:24:04

were getting ready for that in India already.

00:24:06 --> 00:24:08

So that's there's there's a

00:24:08 --> 00:24:10

a series of kind of national legends in

00:24:10 --> 00:24:13

Indonesia about the role of the olema in

00:24:13 --> 00:24:15

resisting the British and the Dutch. Talked to

00:24:15 --> 00:24:16

somebody from the Disney Corporation.

00:24:18 --> 00:24:21

And they're actually considering a script for a

00:24:21 --> 00:24:22

cartoon feature

00:24:23 --> 00:24:25

about a famous teenage boy called Moussa, who

00:24:25 --> 00:24:27

is a hero of the resistance.

00:24:28 --> 00:24:28

Of course,

00:24:30 --> 00:24:32

how well will that play in a kind

00:24:32 --> 00:24:33

of American multiplex?

00:24:34 --> 00:24:36

The brown Muslim boy in a turban called

00:24:36 --> 00:24:38

Morsart a hero against the white man

00:24:39 --> 00:24:40

and issues that

00:24:41 --> 00:24:42

I don't know if they'll do it, but

00:24:42 --> 00:24:44

it's a big kind of imaginative moment for

00:24:44 --> 00:24:47

the beginning of the independent Indonesian

00:24:48 --> 00:24:48

nation.

00:24:49 --> 00:24:50

So the family

00:24:51 --> 00:24:54

go back to East Java. They're in hiding.

00:24:55 --> 00:24:58

The Dutch might well attack them. The communists,

00:24:58 --> 00:25:01

who are now rampant, might attack them.

00:25:01 --> 00:25:04

Gustol's mother, Saleha, to earn some money as

00:25:04 --> 00:25:04

you're selling

00:25:05 --> 00:25:07

sweets from a trolley by the roadside. They've

00:25:07 --> 00:25:09

got an old gun in the house in

00:25:09 --> 00:25:10

case the Dutch police come.

00:25:12 --> 00:25:14

But then independence arrives, and then everybody has

00:25:14 --> 00:25:18

to join the sudden national conversation about what

00:25:18 --> 00:25:20

kind of ideology will be governing the world's

00:25:20 --> 00:25:21

largest,

00:25:22 --> 00:25:22

newest

00:25:23 --> 00:25:24

Muslim country.

00:25:25 --> 00:25:26

The centuries

00:25:27 --> 00:25:29

think Islam should be the basis of the

00:25:29 --> 00:25:29

constitution.

00:25:30 --> 00:25:31

The minorities

00:25:31 --> 00:25:34

say definitely not. Wahid Hashim and many of

00:25:34 --> 00:25:35

the traditionalists,

00:25:35 --> 00:25:36

Natatul Olama,

00:25:38 --> 00:25:38

Olomah,

00:25:39 --> 00:25:41

don't like the idea of a kind of

00:25:41 --> 00:25:43

Islamic religious state,

00:25:44 --> 00:25:47

and we'll return to this apparent paradox in

00:25:47 --> 00:25:50

due course. The new nationalist government run by

00:25:50 --> 00:25:51

Sokarno,

00:25:52 --> 00:25:54

first president of independent Indonesia,

00:25:55 --> 00:25:56

who is kind of left leaning,

00:25:57 --> 00:26:00

which as we'll see causes issues for the

00:26:00 --> 00:26:00

Americans,

00:26:01 --> 00:26:04

hatches this idea called pancasila, which still the

00:26:04 --> 00:26:07

official ideology of the Indonesian state, which is

00:26:07 --> 00:26:09

the idea that it's not a secular state,

00:26:10 --> 00:26:12

but it's not an Islamic state either.

00:26:14 --> 00:26:15

It's based on,

00:26:15 --> 00:26:18

the idea of the one God

00:26:18 --> 00:26:21

and the values the values of the nation

00:26:21 --> 00:26:23

stemming from the one God, but Islam is

00:26:23 --> 00:26:24

not specifically

00:26:24 --> 00:26:27

mentioned. This becomes for decades a big a

00:26:27 --> 00:26:30

big argument in the country. 90% Muslim, why

00:26:30 --> 00:26:31

can't you

00:26:31 --> 00:26:34

have Islam and the constitution just as Holland

00:26:34 --> 00:26:36

has a Christian constitution, Britain has a Christian

00:26:36 --> 00:26:38

constitution, why can't Muslims have the same? You

00:26:38 --> 00:26:40

can see how that argument would go.

00:26:42 --> 00:26:45

After independence, Wahid Heshim, Gustor's father, becomes the

00:26:45 --> 00:26:47

1st minister of religious

00:26:48 --> 00:26:49

affairs. So he moves to Jakarta

00:26:50 --> 00:26:52

from Jombang, which is their town in East

00:26:53 --> 00:26:53

Java,

00:26:55 --> 00:26:56

where he

00:26:56 --> 00:26:58

moves in a more cosmopolitan

00:26:59 --> 00:27:01

circle. Interestingly, one of his supporters is a

00:27:01 --> 00:27:04

German convert to Islam, certainly Iskander Buller,

00:27:04 --> 00:27:07

who, introduces him to Beethoven.

00:27:08 --> 00:27:11

Throughout Gostura's life, he liked listening to to

00:27:11 --> 00:27:11

Beethoven.

00:27:13 --> 00:27:13

So

00:27:14 --> 00:27:17

Abdurrahman Wahid, our hero, is growing up

00:27:17 --> 00:27:19

known as a naughty boy.

00:27:20 --> 00:27:22

Twice he breaks his arm climbing trees.

00:27:22 --> 00:27:24

Sometimes his family have to tie him to

00:27:24 --> 00:27:26

a post in the garden to stop him

00:27:26 --> 00:27:26

doing

00:27:26 --> 00:27:27

naughty stuff.

00:27:28 --> 00:27:29

He doesn't want to go to an elite

00:27:29 --> 00:27:30

school

00:27:30 --> 00:27:33

or missionary school or religious school, he just

00:27:33 --> 00:27:34

goes to an ordinary school,

00:27:36 --> 00:27:38

partly because his father wanted his children to

00:27:38 --> 00:27:39

grow up in a cosmopolitan

00:27:40 --> 00:27:42

way. He wanted them to understand the modern

00:27:42 --> 00:27:44

world rather than just to be sheltered in

00:27:44 --> 00:27:46

Indonesian equivalent of a darul olong,

00:27:47 --> 00:27:48

and used to take his son to meetings,

00:27:48 --> 00:27:51

political meetings, whatever. He'd go in the car.

00:27:52 --> 00:27:54

When he was 12, the car crashes, his

00:27:54 --> 00:27:55

father dies.

00:27:56 --> 00:27:59

So he's in the house with his

00:27:59 --> 00:28:02

4 older sisters and his mother, who is

00:28:02 --> 00:28:04

pregnant with the 6th child,

00:28:05 --> 00:28:07

and she turns out to be pretty strong

00:28:07 --> 00:28:10

and resilient in this situation. It's a poor

00:28:10 --> 00:28:11

country and,

00:28:12 --> 00:28:13

they no longer have an income,

00:28:15 --> 00:28:17

and so she starts a rice business and

00:28:17 --> 00:28:19

and supports them with that. And these kind

00:28:19 --> 00:28:21

of resilient women

00:28:22 --> 00:28:26

become quite a theme in Abdulrahman Waheed's life.

00:28:26 --> 00:28:27

So he's at school,

00:28:28 --> 00:28:30

if he's not climbing trees or doing sport.

00:28:30 --> 00:28:33

He's not doing very well in school, but

00:28:33 --> 00:28:34

he loves books.

00:28:34 --> 00:28:37

Jakarta full of secondhand bookshops.

00:28:37 --> 00:28:40

He speaks Dutch and English well. He's learning

00:28:40 --> 00:28:40

Arabic.

00:28:41 --> 00:28:44

And then after having not done terribly well

00:28:44 --> 00:28:45

in the state school,

00:28:46 --> 00:28:48

joins a Pessan Turen and moves through the

00:28:48 --> 00:28:50

curriculum and does it really quickly.

00:28:51 --> 00:28:52

It seems that he had a kind of

00:28:52 --> 00:28:54

photographic memory which is ideal for that kind

00:28:54 --> 00:28:55

of education.

00:28:57 --> 00:28:59

But also is clearly a devout teenager.

00:29:01 --> 00:29:03

He wants to memorize quite a long Arabic

00:29:04 --> 00:29:06

matin or text on Nahu grammar.

00:29:07 --> 00:29:10

And to facilitate this, he makes a vow.

00:29:10 --> 00:29:12

He will go on foot to some of

00:29:12 --> 00:29:15

the best known saints' shrines in Central Java,

00:29:15 --> 00:29:16

including some on the remote south coast

00:29:17 --> 00:29:18

at a 100 mile journey,

00:29:19 --> 00:29:22

in order to strengthen himself spiritually,

00:29:22 --> 00:29:24

to accomplish this.

00:29:24 --> 00:29:25

So he does this,

00:29:26 --> 00:29:29

and it was the tradition for Pasantaran students

00:29:29 --> 00:29:31

in the middle of the night usually to

00:29:31 --> 00:29:33

go to a shrine and kind of reflect

00:29:33 --> 00:29:36

on death and and absorbing the spiritual

00:29:36 --> 00:29:37

blessings of the place,

00:29:38 --> 00:29:40

returning to class spiritually refreshed

00:29:41 --> 00:29:42

the next day. But he does this walk

00:29:42 --> 00:29:44

and his health is never very good,

00:29:45 --> 00:29:46

but he does it.

00:29:47 --> 00:29:48

Now he also

00:29:49 --> 00:29:50

during the day,

00:29:50 --> 00:29:53

he had tremendous energy levels, goes to the

00:29:53 --> 00:29:53

cinema

00:29:54 --> 00:29:55

almost every day.

00:29:56 --> 00:29:56

So Madrasa

00:29:57 --> 00:29:58

to saints' tombs

00:29:58 --> 00:29:59

to the cinema.

00:30:00 --> 00:30:02

And he also because he's in Yogyakarta at

00:30:02 --> 00:30:04

this time, which is really the Islamic intellectual

00:30:05 --> 00:30:06

center,

00:30:08 --> 00:30:10

that's where the great University of Solon, Cali

00:30:10 --> 00:30:11

Jaga is is located,

00:30:12 --> 00:30:14

which some will say today is along with

00:30:14 --> 00:30:16

the Sharif Hidayatullah University in Jakarta,

00:30:16 --> 00:30:18

the great place for studying

00:30:18 --> 00:30:19

religion in Indonesia.

00:30:21 --> 00:30:23

So he's going to the cinema, he's studying

00:30:23 --> 00:30:25

Sheria, he's going on his pilgrimages,

00:30:26 --> 00:30:28

but he also loves the shadow puppets, which

00:30:28 --> 00:30:29

is the great kind of indigenous

00:30:30 --> 00:30:32

art form of traditional Java.

00:30:32 --> 00:30:35

Again, on our trip, we saw we saw

00:30:35 --> 00:30:37

this that is hugely impressive.

00:30:37 --> 00:30:39

There's a screen,

00:30:39 --> 00:30:41

the Dalang, who's the puppet master, sits behind

00:30:41 --> 00:30:43

and does these complex

00:30:43 --> 00:30:44

Javanese,

00:30:45 --> 00:30:47

puppet stories involving stories often from the pre

00:30:47 --> 00:30:49

Islamic past, the Ramayana,

00:30:49 --> 00:30:52

a great Hindu epic, furnishing many of the

00:30:52 --> 00:30:54

key stories. And because they're ethical

00:30:55 --> 00:30:57

and ironic and sometimes comical, It doesn't matter

00:30:57 --> 00:31:00

that the stories are not of Islamic

00:31:00 --> 00:31:01

origin.

00:31:03 --> 00:31:05

He also really likes kind of kung fu

00:31:05 --> 00:31:08

novels and pulp fiction. So he's, you know,

00:31:08 --> 00:31:09

a teenager, but getting into

00:31:10 --> 00:31:12

his mind is really hungry and capacious. He

00:31:12 --> 00:31:14

reads a lot of European philosophy.

00:31:14 --> 00:31:15

He's an age in which

00:31:16 --> 00:31:18

Marxism is fashionable, so he reads Marx.

00:31:19 --> 00:31:21

He also reads the Islamist

00:31:22 --> 00:31:25

stuff. He reads Hassan al Banna. He reads,

00:31:25 --> 00:31:27

but he records later that he found these

00:31:27 --> 00:31:28

rather

00:31:28 --> 00:31:30

sort of shouty and childish,

00:31:31 --> 00:31:33

just kind of slogans without there being a

00:31:33 --> 00:31:35

real kind of system behind them.

00:31:38 --> 00:31:40

He then goes off to Egypt, this is

00:31:40 --> 00:31:41

November 1963,

00:31:42 --> 00:31:44

to further his studies.

00:31:46 --> 00:31:48

In Egypt, he finds, first of all, a

00:31:48 --> 00:31:49

kind of confirmation

00:31:49 --> 00:31:52

of the nahdat al olamat style of Islam,

00:31:53 --> 00:31:55

respect for local culture and tradition,

00:31:56 --> 00:31:56

syncretism

00:31:57 --> 00:31:58

is just fine,

00:31:59 --> 00:31:59

ziara

00:31:59 --> 00:32:01

visiting the tombs of the saints, which is

00:32:02 --> 00:32:03

what you do in Cairo.

00:32:04 --> 00:32:06

The Muhammadiyah also like going to Cairo because

00:32:06 --> 00:32:09

Muhammad Abdul's legacy is is there, but that's

00:32:09 --> 00:32:11

a kind of different bandwidth in the city's

00:32:12 --> 00:32:14

religious life. But in the 19 sixties, Cairo

00:32:14 --> 00:32:16

is kind of, you know, in its heyday.

00:32:18 --> 00:32:21

Nasser has not managed to smash all of

00:32:21 --> 00:32:22

the city's intellectual life,

00:32:24 --> 00:32:24

and

00:32:25 --> 00:32:28

everything is going on. The Egyptian cinema, the

00:32:28 --> 00:32:29

Egyptian theater.

00:32:29 --> 00:32:33

There's 3 surrealist magazines in Cairo. It's

00:32:33 --> 00:32:36

a great cultural center. The opera house is

00:32:38 --> 00:32:39

one of

00:32:40 --> 00:32:42

the great centers of the city before it's,

00:32:43 --> 00:32:47

mysteriously burned down because apparently, the the accountant

00:32:47 --> 00:32:49

didn't want his books to be audited, and

00:32:49 --> 00:32:51

so he thought, I'll just burn down the

00:32:51 --> 00:32:51

opera house.

00:32:52 --> 00:32:55

Yeah. But, it it's a it was the

00:32:55 --> 00:32:57

intellectual capital of the Islamic world at the

00:32:57 --> 00:32:58

time.

00:32:58 --> 00:33:00

So he went to Al Azhar and they

00:33:00 --> 00:33:02

said, oh, you haven't got a certificate in

00:33:02 --> 00:33:03

Arabic.

00:33:03 --> 00:33:05

We know you studied Taftazani and these advanced

00:33:05 --> 00:33:07

texts, but you're not Arabic, you can't come

00:33:07 --> 00:33:09

to our university. So he has to do

00:33:09 --> 00:33:10

basic remedial Arabic,

00:33:11 --> 00:33:12

sitting in a class with

00:33:12 --> 00:33:13

the

00:33:13 --> 00:33:14

Ruandans and

00:33:15 --> 00:33:16

other Indonesians

00:33:16 --> 00:33:18

younger than himself.

00:33:18 --> 00:33:20

He doesn't need to do that, so he

00:33:20 --> 00:33:22

skips classes and instead he's watching sort of

00:33:22 --> 00:33:23

French cinema and,

00:33:24 --> 00:33:27

doing these things in Cairo and getting into

00:33:27 --> 00:33:28

the intellectual richness

00:33:29 --> 00:33:31

of the city. Of course, when he takes

00:33:31 --> 00:33:33

the Arabic exam, he's head of the class

00:33:33 --> 00:33:35

and goes straight into the Mahad. And, he

00:33:35 --> 00:33:38

actually goes to, I guess, 20 years earlier,

00:33:38 --> 00:33:39

the same

00:33:39 --> 00:33:41

buildings and the same curriculum that I went

00:33:41 --> 00:33:44

through. They saw this guy from Cambridge, Cambridge

00:33:44 --> 00:33:45

Ida,

00:33:45 --> 00:33:47

I hadn't come from one of the institutions

00:33:47 --> 00:33:49

they knew about. And so they said, okay.

00:33:49 --> 00:33:50

You go to the remedial class.

00:33:51 --> 00:33:52

So I was sitting there with these kind

00:33:52 --> 00:33:55

of 12 year old guys from Burundi and

00:33:55 --> 00:33:56

kind of

00:33:58 --> 00:34:00

who, actually, they they were good students.

00:34:01 --> 00:34:04

They have made a lot of of themselves.

00:34:05 --> 00:34:07

There were Indonesians as well. I remember some

00:34:07 --> 00:34:08

Thais.

00:34:09 --> 00:34:11

Students from Thailand and Malaysia

00:34:12 --> 00:34:14

always had a lot of kind of electronic

00:34:14 --> 00:34:16

stuff with them, sort

00:34:16 --> 00:34:19

of cassette players and radios and things, which

00:34:19 --> 00:34:21

was too much for the Al Zahra student

00:34:21 --> 00:34:22

accommodation,

00:34:24 --> 00:34:26

electric circuits. So very often,

00:34:28 --> 00:34:30

the lights would all go out and there'd

00:34:30 --> 00:34:32

be a fight on who, to fix the

00:34:32 --> 00:34:32

fuse.

00:34:33 --> 00:34:35

And, I can tell you some stories about

00:34:35 --> 00:34:36

it. Kinda he must have been in a

00:34:36 --> 00:34:38

world that was a little bit similar, but

00:34:38 --> 00:34:40

to earn an income, he did some translation

00:34:40 --> 00:34:42

work for the Indonesian embassy.

00:34:43 --> 00:34:44

He's from a good family, so he gets

00:34:45 --> 00:34:47

this and he translates. And that but in

00:34:47 --> 00:34:49

that way, he gets to know what's happening

00:34:49 --> 00:34:52

in Jakarta. Telex is coming in. He translates

00:34:52 --> 00:34:53

them. He can do the Arabic, he can

00:34:53 --> 00:34:55

do the English, as well as the

00:34:55 --> 00:34:56

the the Bahasa Indonesian.

00:34:59 --> 00:35:00

And this is a

00:35:02 --> 00:35:03

tense time in Indonesia.

00:35:05 --> 00:35:05

1965,

00:35:07 --> 00:35:07

Sokalarno

00:35:08 --> 00:35:10

is overthrown in a coup

00:35:11 --> 00:35:12

orchestrated by the CIA,

00:35:13 --> 00:35:14

and Sogharto

00:35:14 --> 00:35:15

is put in.

00:35:16 --> 00:35:18

And that's the end of the experiment with

00:35:18 --> 00:35:19

socialism. Of course, the Americans who are fighting

00:35:19 --> 00:35:22

this war in Vietnam are terrified that the

00:35:22 --> 00:35:24

communist thing will extend the domino theory,

00:35:25 --> 00:35:26

and so they bring in Suharto,

00:35:28 --> 00:35:30

and there's a massive witch hunt against communists

00:35:30 --> 00:35:32

and socialists in Indonesia,

00:35:33 --> 00:35:35

and massacres, maybe 3,000,000

00:35:35 --> 00:35:37

people are massacred.

00:35:38 --> 00:35:40

And reading all of these messages,

00:35:41 --> 00:35:42

from Jakarta

00:35:42 --> 00:35:43

to the embassy,

00:35:44 --> 00:35:46

And Rouhman Wahid is kind of traumatized

00:35:47 --> 00:35:49

because some of the people who are carrying

00:35:49 --> 00:35:50

out these massacres,

00:35:52 --> 00:35:54

were actually Netatul olamat youth

00:35:55 --> 00:35:57

because they didn't like the communists and they

00:35:57 --> 00:35:59

were being mobilized in order to get their

00:35:59 --> 00:36:00

own back,

00:36:00 --> 00:36:03

and it wasn't a very good

00:36:03 --> 00:36:06

look or very good moment for this Indonesia's

00:36:06 --> 00:36:07

largest religious

00:36:08 --> 00:36:09

organization, and for the rest of his lives,

00:36:09 --> 00:36:10

he was quite,

00:36:11 --> 00:36:13

sort of, guilty about that. So the embassy

00:36:13 --> 00:36:14

asked him to compile

00:36:15 --> 00:36:18

secret dossier on every Indonesian student in Cairo

00:36:19 --> 00:36:21

or ideally in the Arab world because they

00:36:21 --> 00:36:22

wanted to see who was reading

00:36:22 --> 00:36:23

Engels.

00:36:24 --> 00:36:26

He could see this was what was going

00:36:26 --> 00:36:28

on, and so he wrote the files

00:36:28 --> 00:36:31

in such a way as to exonerate everybody.

00:36:31 --> 00:36:34

Nobody was reading Marx. Nobody was going to

00:36:34 --> 00:36:35

anything with a red flag. They were all

00:36:35 --> 00:36:36

good. Muslims

00:36:38 --> 00:36:40

didn't worry. And so it seems that, none

00:36:40 --> 00:36:41

of the

00:36:41 --> 00:36:42

students

00:36:42 --> 00:36:45

in Iraq, Syria, or Egypt were arrested and

00:36:45 --> 00:36:48

flown home as a result of their political

00:36:48 --> 00:36:50

persuasion. Of course, because he knows Marxism, he's

00:36:50 --> 00:36:52

read the stuff, he can identify what kind

00:36:52 --> 00:36:54

of tendencies are underway.

00:36:54 --> 00:36:56

Cairo is also unstable.

00:36:57 --> 00:36:58

This is the time of the trial of

00:36:58 --> 00:37:01

Seyd But, who Nasr has executed.

00:37:04 --> 00:37:06

'Abdu'l UHman Wahid with his complex deep

00:37:07 --> 00:37:08

peasantron education

00:37:09 --> 00:37:11

and his awareness of Islam's culture of ambiguity

00:37:12 --> 00:37:14

doesn't like Gott's kind of ideological

00:37:15 --> 00:37:15

totalitarian

00:37:16 --> 00:37:16

vision of Islam,

00:37:17 --> 00:37:19

but he doesn't like this execution either. So

00:37:20 --> 00:37:22

with some other students, he stands outside the

00:37:22 --> 00:37:24

prison in Cairo at the time of the

00:37:24 --> 00:37:26

execution and they just pray.

00:37:27 --> 00:37:29

They don't support they don't support Guts, but

00:37:29 --> 00:37:31

they really don't think that the man should

00:37:31 --> 00:37:31

be hanged.

00:37:33 --> 00:37:35

So it's a time for this young student

00:37:35 --> 00:37:36

of ideological

00:37:36 --> 00:37:37

confusion.

00:37:38 --> 00:37:39

He's had this very settled

00:37:40 --> 00:37:43

embedding in the traditional Javanese

00:37:43 --> 00:37:43

world

00:37:44 --> 00:37:45

of century Islam.

00:37:46 --> 00:37:48

The 19 sixties were a time when you

00:37:48 --> 00:37:51

had riots in Paris and communism is on

00:37:51 --> 00:37:55

a roll. Fidel k Gevara, the world is

00:37:55 --> 00:37:56

in ferment.

00:37:57 --> 00:37:58

Where is the truth?

00:37:59 --> 00:38:03

Everything seems kind of breaking down, decadence at

00:38:03 --> 00:38:04

home and abroad, elites

00:38:05 --> 00:38:07

in the Middle East and back home in

00:38:07 --> 00:38:07

Indonesia

00:38:08 --> 00:38:10

pocketing the country's resources.

00:38:10 --> 00:38:11

It's not inspiring,

00:38:12 --> 00:38:14

but he does have a source of relaxation

00:38:14 --> 00:38:15

and relief.

00:38:16 --> 00:38:18

He's embarked on a correspondence,

00:38:20 --> 00:38:22

Rok Ting, you remember writing a letter,

00:38:23 --> 00:38:26

with a female student, as the Pesan Turen,

00:38:27 --> 00:38:29

in Java called Nuria,

00:38:30 --> 00:38:32

and they exchange messages quite erudite.

00:38:35 --> 00:38:36

And then because he's been

00:38:37 --> 00:38:39

hanging out in too many things in Cairo,

00:38:39 --> 00:38:42

he actually fails his Azhar exams.

00:38:43 --> 00:38:44

And he writes to her saying, this has

00:38:44 --> 00:38:45

been a waste of time.

00:38:46 --> 00:38:47

What am I doing here?

00:38:48 --> 00:38:50

I failed. I thought this was easy because

00:38:50 --> 00:38:52

I know these texts, but I failed.

00:38:53 --> 00:38:54

And she writes back saying,

00:38:55 --> 00:38:57

if you have failed in your exams,

00:38:57 --> 00:38:59

perhaps you have passed the test of love.

00:39:01 --> 00:39:03

So he knows what that means. And they

00:39:03 --> 00:39:06

arrange a traditional marriage with a wakil, so

00:39:06 --> 00:39:07

he doesn't go back to Java yet, but

00:39:07 --> 00:39:09

they are married by by proxy.

00:39:10 --> 00:39:12

So he gets a new scholarship. Al Zahra

00:39:12 --> 00:39:14

is not going to renew his support. He

00:39:14 --> 00:39:16

goes to the University of Baghdad,

00:39:16 --> 00:39:19

which is probably the second most interesting diverse

00:39:19 --> 00:39:19

place

00:39:20 --> 00:39:21

in the Arab world at that time.

00:39:22 --> 00:39:24

It's freer than Cairo. There's a lot of

00:39:24 --> 00:39:26

Egyptian exiled academics there.

00:39:27 --> 00:39:28

It's more Westernizing,

00:39:28 --> 00:39:29

more philosophical,

00:39:30 --> 00:39:31

more analytical.

00:39:32 --> 00:39:34

Al Zahra is still based mainly in on

00:39:34 --> 00:39:35

the regurgitation

00:39:35 --> 00:39:38

of texts. At the University of Baghdad, you

00:39:38 --> 00:39:39

have to write essays

00:39:39 --> 00:39:40

and think.

00:39:40 --> 00:39:42

And he likes this.

00:39:43 --> 00:39:45

And also Baghdad's city of shrines,

00:39:46 --> 00:39:47

and Al Junaid

00:39:48 --> 00:39:49

and Salis Sakatry

00:39:49 --> 00:39:51

and Abu Hanifa, everybody's there.

00:39:52 --> 00:39:54

And he spends time there, but also in

00:39:54 --> 00:39:55

cafes on the river.

00:39:56 --> 00:39:58

He strikes up a friendship with the director

00:39:58 --> 00:40:01

of the French Cultural Center, and they talk

00:40:01 --> 00:40:02

a lot about French literature.

00:40:03 --> 00:40:06

He has an Iraqi Jewish friend called Ramin

00:40:06 --> 00:40:09

who introduces him to the Kabbalah and Jewish

00:40:09 --> 00:40:11

mysticism. Baghdad is really

00:40:12 --> 00:40:14

not what it was in the time of

00:40:14 --> 00:40:16

the great Abbasids, but still a cosmopolitan

00:40:17 --> 00:40:19

city. Then he says, I want to study

00:40:19 --> 00:40:19

in Europe.

00:40:20 --> 00:40:22

He goes there for a year, but nobody

00:40:22 --> 00:40:25

in the universities will recognize his certificates.

00:40:26 --> 00:40:27

Whereas University of Baghdad,

00:40:28 --> 00:40:29

what is a pessentrein?

00:40:29 --> 00:40:32

We don't acknowledge this at all. And so

00:40:32 --> 00:40:34

after a year, he just gets kind of

00:40:34 --> 00:40:35

rebuffed

00:40:35 --> 00:40:37

and goes back feeling rather

00:40:38 --> 00:40:39

disconsolate. This is 1971.

00:40:42 --> 00:40:43

So he's back in Java,

00:40:45 --> 00:40:47

has the the proper marriage ceremony,

00:40:47 --> 00:40:49

and he travels around tours at the Sant'Rennes,

00:40:49 --> 00:40:53

the shrines, works for a sociological institute, and

00:40:53 --> 00:40:54

starts to make a name for himself when

00:40:54 --> 00:40:57

he publishes in the journal, which is called

00:40:57 --> 00:41:00

Prisma, which becomes one of kind of centers

00:41:00 --> 00:41:01

central

00:41:01 --> 00:41:03

platforms for social

00:41:03 --> 00:41:04

come religious,

00:41:05 --> 00:41:06

theorizing in Indonesia

00:41:07 --> 00:41:07

at the time.

00:41:09 --> 00:41:10

Not much income.

00:41:11 --> 00:41:15

You don't earn much publishing in sociology journals.

00:41:15 --> 00:41:17

So his wife, Noria,

00:41:18 --> 00:41:21

is selling peanut snacks to students outside the

00:41:21 --> 00:41:22

university

00:41:22 --> 00:41:23

and at night,

00:41:24 --> 00:41:26

after going to his classes and so forth,

00:41:26 --> 00:41:28

he's helping her put roasting the peanuts, putting

00:41:28 --> 00:41:31

them them to little, plastic sacks, and then

00:41:31 --> 00:41:34

on his Vespa motor scooter, he would take

00:41:34 --> 00:41:37

them off, in the morning to deliver them.

00:41:38 --> 00:41:38

He has,

00:41:40 --> 00:41:43

after 3 years, 2 daughters. He helps with

00:41:43 --> 00:41:45

the housework. It's kind of a 3rd world

00:41:45 --> 00:41:48

situation. It's no air conditioning. It's very, very

00:41:48 --> 00:41:49

basic.

00:41:49 --> 00:41:52

Even though he's already acknowledged as as somebody

00:41:52 --> 00:41:53

who can write seriously

00:41:54 --> 00:41:56

on contemporary topics in a sociology

00:41:57 --> 00:41:58

journal.

00:41:59 --> 00:42:01

A breakthrough starts when he is given an

00:42:01 --> 00:42:01

ijazah

00:42:02 --> 00:42:03

in

00:42:03 --> 00:42:04

qwa'id al fakih,

00:42:05 --> 00:42:07

the basic maxims of Islamic jurisprudence,

00:42:07 --> 00:42:09

and also in the hikim of ibn Atha

00:42:09 --> 00:42:11

al al Eskandari, which is a classic Sufi

00:42:11 --> 00:42:12

text.

00:42:12 --> 00:42:14

And because he has this ijazah, this teaching

00:42:14 --> 00:42:17

certificate, he's able to teach and actually to

00:42:17 --> 00:42:18

earn a little bit.

00:42:19 --> 00:42:21

1977, he has a third daughter,

00:42:22 --> 00:42:24

and suddenly, he is appointed to be the

00:42:24 --> 00:42:26

dean of the Ursula Dean Faculty

00:42:26 --> 00:42:29

in, the Hesham Ashari University, maybe after his

00:42:29 --> 00:42:30

grandfather,

00:42:31 --> 00:42:33

in his town of Jombang, which is a

00:42:33 --> 00:42:36

Western style university in structure, but it's designed

00:42:36 --> 00:42:36

for the Pessantren

00:42:37 --> 00:42:38

graduates.

00:42:38 --> 00:42:40

He's asked to become a popular preacher.

00:42:42 --> 00:42:44

1 Ramadan, he sets out to go through

00:42:44 --> 00:42:47

the 30 juz of the Quran using the

00:42:47 --> 00:42:48

tafsir of Jalalayn,

00:42:49 --> 00:42:52

and it said that one evening, a train

00:42:52 --> 00:42:53

was delayed in the station

00:42:54 --> 00:42:56

as the passengers were still listening to the

00:42:56 --> 00:42:58

to the Bayan. They didn't want to miss

00:42:58 --> 00:42:59

it, and so the train actually waited

00:43:00 --> 00:43:02

for the passengers. He becomes really, really popular.

00:43:05 --> 00:43:07

He's pottering around on his Vespa scooter and

00:43:07 --> 00:43:08

has an accident,

00:43:08 --> 00:43:10

quite a serious one. His

00:43:11 --> 00:43:13

vision from this time

00:43:13 --> 00:43:14

starts to deteriorate,

00:43:14 --> 00:43:16

his retina detaches,

00:43:16 --> 00:43:18

and he doesn't really because he's impatient,

00:43:19 --> 00:43:22

with medical treatment, doesn't really allow it to

00:43:22 --> 00:43:22

recover.

00:43:24 --> 00:43:24

And,

00:43:24 --> 00:43:27

in one eye, he's kind of semi blind,

00:43:27 --> 00:43:29

from then on.

00:43:30 --> 00:43:32

He's obviously a rising staff of the Natatul

00:43:32 --> 00:43:33

Olomap,

00:43:33 --> 00:43:35

and he joins their shura council. This means

00:43:35 --> 00:43:37

he has to go to the capital Jakarta.

00:43:38 --> 00:43:40

So that means a smaller salary. He has

00:43:40 --> 00:43:42

to live in a very remote suburb in

00:43:42 --> 00:43:43

a small house.

00:43:44 --> 00:43:45

4th daughter is born,

00:43:47 --> 00:43:48

and,

00:43:48 --> 00:43:49

Abdulrahman

00:43:49 --> 00:43:51

quite like a son. He remembers that he

00:43:51 --> 00:43:53

has 4 older sisters, so maybe

00:43:54 --> 00:43:56

they'll get lucky. But Noria says,

00:43:56 --> 00:43:57

perhaps not.

00:44:01 --> 00:44:03

But they're in this small house now in

00:44:03 --> 00:44:05

a very moderate salary.

00:44:05 --> 00:44:08

The Naqdul Olama are having increasing difficulties with

00:44:08 --> 00:44:09

the new regime

00:44:10 --> 00:44:11

of Suharto,

00:44:12 --> 00:44:15

even though they've kind of colluded or some

00:44:15 --> 00:44:17

of them have in the extermination

00:44:17 --> 00:44:18

of Javanese

00:44:18 --> 00:44:19

communism

00:44:20 --> 00:44:23

because Suharto is basically a military dictator.

00:44:24 --> 00:44:27

In the early 19 eighties, the regime becomes

00:44:27 --> 00:44:28

increasingly repressive.

00:44:29 --> 00:44:30

Often he's arrested

00:44:30 --> 00:44:32

and detained overnight.

00:44:33 --> 00:44:36

Because he's working in official circles,

00:44:36 --> 00:44:38

through the Natu Gul Alama, he does have

00:44:38 --> 00:44:38

connections.

00:44:39 --> 00:44:41

And if we're thinking about leadership,

00:44:41 --> 00:44:43

we might want to ponder the way in

00:44:43 --> 00:44:44

which he

00:44:44 --> 00:44:46

tries to establish connections

00:44:46 --> 00:44:48

in the the ruling

00:44:48 --> 00:44:49

military establishment

00:44:50 --> 00:44:52

as a means of allowing the nadir ul

00:44:52 --> 00:44:54

ulama to continue their work.

00:44:55 --> 00:44:57

Because there are opportunities in this period.

00:44:58 --> 00:44:58

Suharto,

00:44:58 --> 00:45:00

as part of his

00:45:00 --> 00:45:02

pushback against communism,

00:45:03 --> 00:45:06

has decided that some of these moderate Islamic

00:45:06 --> 00:45:07

groups

00:45:07 --> 00:45:08

should be

00:45:08 --> 00:45:09

encouraged

00:45:10 --> 00:45:11

to try and

00:45:12 --> 00:45:12

sanctify

00:45:12 --> 00:45:13

or Islamize

00:45:14 --> 00:45:14

these

00:45:15 --> 00:45:15

villagers

00:45:16 --> 00:45:18

in many parts of Java who might have

00:45:18 --> 00:45:21

Muslim names, but believe in spirits and have

00:45:21 --> 00:45:22

never been inside a mosque

00:45:22 --> 00:45:25

as a kind of bulwark against communism. So

00:45:25 --> 00:45:26

Naft al Ullama,

00:45:26 --> 00:45:29

not wanting to be tools of the regime,

00:45:29 --> 00:45:31

nonetheless see this as an opportunity. So

00:45:32 --> 00:45:34

they have to strike a very delicate balance.

00:45:34 --> 00:45:36

So one of the things that he does

00:45:36 --> 00:45:38

is to create not really a friendship, but

00:45:38 --> 00:45:40

a kind of relationship with somebody called Benny

00:45:40 --> 00:45:41

Mordani.

00:45:43 --> 00:45:44

This is Jenny general

00:45:45 --> 00:45:47

Benny Mordani, who is a Catholic,

00:45:47 --> 00:45:48

head of military intelligence.

00:45:50 --> 00:45:51

Normally, in the Suharto

00:45:52 --> 00:45:54

regime, these key things like intelligence,

00:45:55 --> 00:45:56

they're drawn from

00:45:56 --> 00:46:00

secular background, often Christian communities. Very unusual for

00:46:00 --> 00:46:02

religious Muslim to be involved in the state

00:46:03 --> 00:46:03

like that.

00:46:04 --> 00:46:06

Benny Mordani is famous for the lee as

00:46:06 --> 00:46:07

the leader of the 1975

00:46:08 --> 00:46:09

Indonesian

00:46:09 --> 00:46:10

army invasion

00:46:11 --> 00:46:12

of East Timor

00:46:12 --> 00:46:15

with a lot of human rights abuses.

00:46:15 --> 00:46:17

Portuguese have pulled out,

00:46:18 --> 00:46:19

and the Indonesians

00:46:19 --> 00:46:20

move in

00:46:20 --> 00:46:23

with support from the Israel from the Australian

00:46:23 --> 00:46:24

government

00:46:24 --> 00:46:26

who don't believe in

00:46:26 --> 00:46:28

an independent East Timor.

00:46:28 --> 00:46:30

So in goes Benny Mordani

00:46:30 --> 00:46:33

with his militias and his death squads, and

00:46:34 --> 00:46:35

it's an uneasy relationship.

00:46:37 --> 00:46:41

But the old Portuguese colonies, because under Salazar

00:46:41 --> 00:46:43

in Portugal, Islam was not a legal religion.

00:46:44 --> 00:46:46

Like in in Spain, you couldn't open a

00:46:46 --> 00:46:48

mosque until Franco died in 1975.

00:46:48 --> 00:46:49

It was national Catholicism.

00:46:50 --> 00:46:52

And even to this day, in former Portuguese

00:46:52 --> 00:46:54

colonies, Muslims have a hard time.

00:46:55 --> 00:46:57

Islam is still not the recognized religion in

00:46:57 --> 00:47:00

Angola, for instance. You still can't legally operate

00:47:00 --> 00:47:02

a mosque in Angola.

00:47:02 --> 00:47:04

And if you're in the mood

00:47:05 --> 00:47:07

to be depressed, you can look even on

00:47:07 --> 00:47:10

YouTube at pictures of illegal mosques being burnt

00:47:10 --> 00:47:13

down in Angola by Christian mobs. It regularly

00:47:13 --> 00:47:14

happens. It's

00:47:14 --> 00:47:17

an ongoing issue there. Even the Muslim community

00:47:17 --> 00:47:18

is small. So East Timor is also this

00:47:18 --> 00:47:19

kind of militant

00:47:20 --> 00:47:20

inquisitionized

00:47:21 --> 00:47:24

Catholic place. Mordani is also Catholic, but he

00:47:24 --> 00:47:25

wants it to be part of the

00:47:26 --> 00:47:26

Indonesian

00:47:27 --> 00:47:27

state.

00:47:31 --> 00:47:32

Sometimes,

00:47:34 --> 00:47:38

Wahid will speak out against corruption in the

00:47:38 --> 00:47:39

Saharitel government

00:47:40 --> 00:47:41

and also against the brutality

00:47:42 --> 00:47:43

of the anti Islamist

00:47:43 --> 00:47:44

crackdowns.

00:47:44 --> 00:47:46

Anything that looks like could be an fundamentalist

00:47:47 --> 00:47:47

fundamentalism,

00:47:48 --> 00:47:50

the women will be raped, the men will

00:47:50 --> 00:47:52

be beaten up. It'll be the usual kind

00:47:52 --> 00:47:52

of,

00:47:54 --> 00:47:55

regime saga.

00:47:56 --> 00:47:59

And Benny Mordani is very much kind of

00:47:59 --> 00:47:59

at the forefront

00:48:00 --> 00:48:01

of those crackdowns,

00:48:01 --> 00:48:03

And it's almost certain that

00:48:04 --> 00:48:05

some of the

00:48:06 --> 00:48:08

the riots and the conflagrations

00:48:08 --> 00:48:11

were provoked by the secret police.

00:48:12 --> 00:48:14

Even sectarian rioting

00:48:15 --> 00:48:17

between Muslims and Christians now believe that usually

00:48:17 --> 00:48:18

it would be incited

00:48:19 --> 00:48:22

by, the security forces as a means of

00:48:22 --> 00:48:25

legitimizing a crackdown on various groups.

00:48:27 --> 00:48:30

Meanwhile, the theoretical discussions are continuing about the

00:48:30 --> 00:48:31

compatibility

00:48:31 --> 00:48:34

of traditional Islam with the state Pancha Sila

00:48:34 --> 00:48:34

ideology.

00:48:35 --> 00:48:38

Can Muslims be happy in a state which

00:48:38 --> 00:48:41

doesn't acknowledge Islam as the state's religion, but

00:48:41 --> 00:48:43

just has this perhaps slightly nebulous belief that

00:48:43 --> 00:48:45

values flow from a belief in 1 God.

00:48:48 --> 00:48:50

Some of the younger olema are moving into

00:48:50 --> 00:48:52

the Naqutul olema's shura

00:48:54 --> 00:48:54

council,

00:48:55 --> 00:48:57

the discussion becomes more

00:48:58 --> 00:49:00

intense. And the way the Natu Gulama decide

00:49:00 --> 00:49:01

to play it

00:49:02 --> 00:49:04

is that they're not going to oppose this

00:49:04 --> 00:49:05

Pancha Sila idea,

00:49:07 --> 00:49:10

but instead try and work inside the structures

00:49:10 --> 00:49:12

to push it in a more kind of

00:49:12 --> 00:49:13

Islam friendly

00:49:14 --> 00:49:15

direction.

00:49:16 --> 00:49:19

And that's really how they save the organization.

00:49:20 --> 00:49:20

They're tolerated.

00:49:21 --> 00:49:23

Ngati rlou olema is never shut down by

00:49:23 --> 00:49:25

Soeharto even though civil society is almost dead,

00:49:25 --> 00:49:28

journalists are paid off. It's a very totalitarian

00:49:29 --> 00:49:33

scenario. But they kind of demonstrate to the

00:49:33 --> 00:49:35

state that they're really too big to fail,

00:49:35 --> 00:49:36

30,000,000

00:49:36 --> 00:49:36

members.

00:49:37 --> 00:49:39

So how do you want to take that

00:49:39 --> 00:49:41

on? And so they managed to survive in

00:49:41 --> 00:49:42

this

00:49:42 --> 00:49:43

in this time.

00:49:45 --> 00:49:48

It's not a party political organization, Nata'olulama.

00:49:50 --> 00:49:50

The original

00:49:51 --> 00:49:53

khitah, as they call it, the kind of

00:49:57 --> 00:49:57

educational,

00:49:58 --> 00:50:00

not to kind of

00:50:00 --> 00:50:01

run for parliament.

00:50:03 --> 00:50:06

In due course, partly because of his clever

00:50:06 --> 00:50:09

way of maintaining some kind of modus vivendi

00:50:09 --> 00:50:10

with the Suharto dictatorship,

00:50:11 --> 00:50:12

Abdurrahman Wahid

00:50:13 --> 00:50:16

elected to be chairman of the Natatul Alamat.

00:50:17 --> 00:50:20

There's no salary attaching to that. In their

00:50:20 --> 00:50:21

tradition, the Alim

00:50:22 --> 00:50:23

in an organization like that

00:50:24 --> 00:50:25

doesn't get paid.

00:50:25 --> 00:50:27

Donations come to him all the time,

00:50:27 --> 00:50:29

but he's still living in a cheap rented

00:50:29 --> 00:50:31

house far from Jakarta.

00:50:34 --> 00:50:35

So his

00:50:35 --> 00:50:38

his priority in this time is the reform

00:50:38 --> 00:50:38

of the Pessantrens

00:50:39 --> 00:50:41

and the upgrade of their educational

00:50:41 --> 00:50:42

standards.

00:50:43 --> 00:50:45

Very often these are amazingly informal places

00:50:46 --> 00:50:49

without really a fixed curriculum. They have this

00:50:49 --> 00:50:51

idea of the Quran and the Hadith and

00:50:51 --> 00:50:52

what they call kitabkuning,

00:50:53 --> 00:50:55

which is the traditional curriculum of texts,

00:50:58 --> 00:50:59

and Sufism.

00:51:00 --> 00:51:00

But,

00:51:01 --> 00:51:04

often there's no formal enrollment. Anybody just sits

00:51:04 --> 00:51:05

in to a class.

00:51:06 --> 00:51:07

There might be informal

00:51:08 --> 00:51:09

assessment procedures,

00:51:10 --> 00:51:11

half the time people don't seem to be

00:51:11 --> 00:51:13

there or they're out growing,

00:51:14 --> 00:51:17

you know, picking fruit or something. It's really

00:51:17 --> 00:51:19

very informal. That's one reason for the survival

00:51:19 --> 00:51:20

of the naturaolamat,

00:51:20 --> 00:51:21

that it's so organic

00:51:22 --> 00:51:22

and unstructured.

00:51:25 --> 00:51:27

But he wants to regularize things a little

00:51:27 --> 00:51:28

bit.

00:51:29 --> 00:51:31

And he tries to establish

00:51:32 --> 00:51:34

a presence in the major Islamic universities.

00:51:35 --> 00:51:38

We mentioned Sonam Kalajagi University in Georgia Carta,

00:51:38 --> 00:51:38

Sherifidayatollah

00:51:39 --> 00:51:40

in Jakarta,

00:51:41 --> 00:51:42

but there's a lot of others.

00:51:45 --> 00:51:47

And he wants to establish a naturol olamat

00:51:47 --> 00:51:48

presence

00:51:48 --> 00:51:51

where often the discourse has been dominated by

00:51:51 --> 00:51:53

a little more philosophical

00:51:53 --> 00:51:54

or modernist

00:51:54 --> 00:51:56

reformist types of Muslims.

00:51:57 --> 00:51:59

And later on, you have the appearance of

00:51:59 --> 00:51:59

the Paramedina

00:52:00 --> 00:52:02

University in Jakarta, which is still very

00:52:03 --> 00:52:03

vibrant,

00:52:04 --> 00:52:05

established by Nur

00:52:05 --> 00:52:08

Nur Hollis Majid, who's also from John Bang,

00:52:08 --> 00:52:10

but adopts a much more kind of

00:52:12 --> 00:52:12

rationalizing

00:52:13 --> 00:52:14

approach to religion, you might say,

00:52:15 --> 00:52:16

still orthodox.

00:52:17 --> 00:52:19

But he did his PhD with Fazlur Rahman

00:52:19 --> 00:52:20

in Chicago.

00:52:21 --> 00:52:23

Wahid never really studied in the West, so

00:52:23 --> 00:52:25

a different kind of orientation. But the idea

00:52:26 --> 00:52:28

of the the Paramedini University is to train

00:52:28 --> 00:52:29

up,

00:52:30 --> 00:52:31

religious

00:52:31 --> 00:52:34

boys and girls of the elite.

00:52:35 --> 00:52:37

Quite a small institution, but well worth visiting.

00:52:42 --> 00:52:44

So he's doing this. He's reforming the the

00:52:44 --> 00:52:47

Pesan trend. There's tens of thousands of these

00:52:47 --> 00:52:49

places. It's a huge task. He never really

00:52:49 --> 00:52:49

does it

00:52:51 --> 00:52:52

adequately, I think.

00:52:53 --> 00:52:55

He's he never becomes a really good administrator,

00:52:55 --> 00:52:57

even though people trust him and appoint him

00:52:57 --> 00:52:58

to high positions. He's kind of

00:53:00 --> 00:53:02

a bit too laid back in a sense,

00:53:02 --> 00:53:03

humorous guy,

00:53:04 --> 00:53:06

not always wholly reliable,

00:53:06 --> 00:53:07

enormously energetic.

00:53:08 --> 00:53:10

He can go to several meetings on different

00:53:10 --> 00:53:12

islands in a day and in the evening,

00:53:12 --> 00:53:13

10 o'clock, he's meeting journalists.

00:53:14 --> 00:53:14

Indefatigable,

00:53:16 --> 00:53:17

but a little bit chaotic.

00:53:18 --> 00:53:19

But he's still

00:53:21 --> 00:53:24

risking things by being critical of the regime.

00:53:24 --> 00:53:25

And in particular,

00:53:26 --> 00:53:27

the World Bank

00:53:27 --> 00:53:30

agreed to Suharto's idea to create an enormous,

00:53:31 --> 00:53:31

very environmentally

00:53:32 --> 00:53:32

destructive

00:53:33 --> 00:53:33

dam

00:53:33 --> 00:53:36

and reservoir right in the middle of Java.

00:53:37 --> 00:53:39

It's the Kidung Omo dam, one of the

00:53:39 --> 00:53:41

core celebrities at the time in the 19

00:53:41 --> 00:53:42

seventies.

00:53:43 --> 00:53:44

And he writes to the World Bank saying

00:53:44 --> 00:53:46

this is going to destroy,

00:53:46 --> 00:53:47

this region.

00:53:49 --> 00:53:50

But,

00:53:50 --> 00:53:53

Suharto gets angry with him.

00:53:53 --> 00:53:55

The World Bank don't realize where a lot

00:53:55 --> 00:53:56

of the money is going to end up,

00:53:57 --> 00:53:58

but that's a kind of,

00:53:59 --> 00:54:02

very precarious moment for him. But it shows

00:54:02 --> 00:54:02

that he's still

00:54:03 --> 00:54:06

gauging the situation, knowing how far he can

00:54:06 --> 00:54:08

go before everything will be shut down.

00:54:11 --> 00:54:11

1989,

00:54:12 --> 00:54:13

he comes up for reelection

00:54:14 --> 00:54:16

as head of the Natatul Olomat.

00:54:17 --> 00:54:19

And at this time, he

00:54:20 --> 00:54:22

goes to Mecca. He hasn't done his Hajj

00:54:22 --> 00:54:22

yet.

00:54:23 --> 00:54:25

He goes to Mecca for Umrah and he

00:54:25 --> 00:54:26

goes to visit somebody

00:54:27 --> 00:54:29

for his advice on how to deal with

00:54:29 --> 00:54:30

this really very complicated,

00:54:31 --> 00:54:31

sensitive

00:54:32 --> 00:54:34

situation. He's head of the world's largest Islamic

00:54:34 --> 00:54:36

organization in the world's most complicated Islamic country,

00:54:37 --> 00:54:40

the the biggest Islamic country with this pro

00:54:40 --> 00:54:42

Western dic military dictatorship,

00:54:43 --> 00:54:45

which is fighting all kinds of nasty wars,

00:54:46 --> 00:54:49

Aceh conflict is going on, the Ambon conflict,

00:54:49 --> 00:54:50

the Moluccas are on fire.

00:54:51 --> 00:54:54

You have complex situation in Elianjaya,

00:54:54 --> 00:54:55

West Papua. It's

00:54:56 --> 00:54:56

very

00:54:57 --> 00:54:58

difficult, unstable situation.

00:54:59 --> 00:55:00

So he goes to advice

00:55:01 --> 00:55:05

for to, sheikh Mohammed Yassine Faiderni in Mecca.

00:55:07 --> 00:55:09

Yeah. Who I actually, had the privilege of

00:55:09 --> 00:55:11

of visiting once. Must have been a couple

00:55:11 --> 00:55:14

of years before Gostol was there.

00:55:15 --> 00:55:17

He was already about 90. I remember it

00:55:17 --> 00:55:18

quite clearly.

00:55:19 --> 00:55:21

And because by that time, this is long

00:55:21 --> 00:55:23

after the Ottomans have gone,

00:55:23 --> 00:55:25

you couldn't just teach in the Haram.

00:55:26 --> 00:55:27

If you were allowed

00:55:28 --> 00:55:30

to say anything at all it would be

00:55:30 --> 00:55:32

in your house. We have this flat

00:55:32 --> 00:55:34

in Hayil Andalus

00:55:36 --> 00:55:38

and there would be mostly Syrian students sitting

00:55:38 --> 00:55:40

around. We were doing Sahih Muslim at the

00:55:40 --> 00:55:41

time.

00:55:41 --> 00:55:42

Fadani,

00:55:43 --> 00:55:44

would be,

00:55:45 --> 00:55:47

a kind of really, really thin

00:55:48 --> 00:55:48

thin

00:55:49 --> 00:55:51

oriental dye,

00:55:51 --> 00:55:53

a turban, and a sarong.

00:55:54 --> 00:55:56

And during classes, he would smoke

00:55:56 --> 00:55:57

shisha,

00:55:58 --> 00:56:00

which had various herbs and things. It wasn't

00:56:00 --> 00:56:01

wasn't nicotine.

00:56:02 --> 00:56:05

And the students would read the text

00:56:05 --> 00:56:08

and this really ancient Javanese

00:56:09 --> 00:56:09

guy

00:56:10 --> 00:56:11

would just be there, and

00:56:12 --> 00:56:13

the only way you could tell that the

00:56:13 --> 00:56:15

sheikh was still alive was that sometimes the

00:56:15 --> 00:56:17

thing would bubble. And he said, oh, great.

00:56:17 --> 00:56:20

Otherwise, he's kind of like that. And then

00:56:20 --> 00:56:21

sometimes and, you know, it's like the middle

00:56:21 --> 00:56:22

ages. I was

00:56:23 --> 00:56:24

amazed to see this.

00:56:24 --> 00:56:26

He would kind of come to life and

00:56:26 --> 00:56:27

say, let that's wrong

00:56:27 --> 00:56:29

because there was a misprint in the book.

00:56:30 --> 00:56:31

So we'll have to take our printed copies

00:56:31 --> 00:56:33

and correct it because the sheikh had the

00:56:33 --> 00:56:35

real one up there. And he gave me

00:56:36 --> 00:56:37

5 volumes,

00:56:38 --> 00:56:40

which were just the names of the books

00:56:40 --> 00:56:42

which he was authorized to teach.

00:56:43 --> 00:56:45

He was something from the old times, very

00:56:45 --> 00:56:46

impressive to see

00:56:47 --> 00:56:49

that. It was basically sheikh al Hadith in

00:56:49 --> 00:56:51

in Mecca at the time. So

00:56:51 --> 00:56:54

and is acknowledged as the senior scholar from

00:56:54 --> 00:56:57

the Nusantara from the Malay Indonesian world.

00:56:58 --> 00:56:59

Really a

00:57:00 --> 00:57:01

gentle, humorous guy.

00:57:04 --> 00:57:05

You know, they brought in this

00:57:05 --> 00:57:09

strange sunburnt pink Englishman one day who sat

00:57:09 --> 00:57:11

down and listened to Sahih Muslim. He thought,

00:57:11 --> 00:57:12

fine.

00:57:12 --> 00:57:14

He wasn't fazed by that at all.

00:57:18 --> 00:57:19

So Gostor

00:57:20 --> 00:57:21

goes to see him and ask for his

00:57:21 --> 00:57:24

advice. How does he negotiate this very complicated

00:57:24 --> 00:57:26

situation as a leader

00:57:26 --> 00:57:28

in, in Jakarta

00:57:29 --> 00:57:32

and he advises him. And that partnership seems

00:57:32 --> 00:57:34

to have been quite critical in his success

00:57:34 --> 00:57:36

that he's got a spiritual adviser

00:57:36 --> 00:57:38

who asked him to look at intention

00:57:39 --> 00:57:42

and to read people to gauge the political

00:57:42 --> 00:57:44

equation of of the day.

00:57:46 --> 00:57:47

So he's reelected,

00:57:48 --> 00:57:51

the Naftedol Olomar Convention is a big thing

00:57:51 --> 00:57:52

in Indonesia. Suharto

00:57:53 --> 00:57:56

attends because, remember, he's trying to position himself

00:57:56 --> 00:57:59

somebody who's sympathetic to religion because of the

00:57:59 --> 00:57:59

ball against

00:58:01 --> 00:58:01

communism.

00:58:04 --> 00:58:06

Gusteau gives a speech.

00:58:07 --> 00:58:10

Some of the younger olema are not very

00:58:10 --> 00:58:11

happy with him,

00:58:12 --> 00:58:13

partly because

00:58:13 --> 00:58:16

he has his own mosque in his Pesantren

00:58:16 --> 00:58:18

and he allows the local rather tiny Shia

00:58:18 --> 00:58:21

community to attend. They don't like that.

00:58:22 --> 00:58:24

They accuse him of some kind of Moitezelite

00:58:25 --> 00:58:27

rationalism, which is really not the case.

00:58:28 --> 00:58:31

He's not very keen on large scale Arab

00:58:31 --> 00:58:31

missionary

00:58:32 --> 00:58:32

operations

00:58:33 --> 00:58:34

in Indonesia.

00:58:35 --> 00:58:36

This is 1989,

00:58:36 --> 00:58:38

he'd spoken out against Khomeini's

00:58:38 --> 00:58:40

fatwa on Rushdie,

00:58:41 --> 00:58:43

not everybody's flavor of the month.

00:58:43 --> 00:58:44

But Abu,

00:58:45 --> 00:58:47

Abdul Rahman Wahid is aware of all of

00:58:47 --> 00:58:50

this and is fresh from his energizing encounter

00:58:50 --> 00:58:52

with the sheikh in Mecca. And he gives

00:58:52 --> 00:58:52

a speech.

00:58:54 --> 00:58:56

President is there, but these angry young men

00:58:56 --> 00:58:58

are there as well, and he's very witty.

00:58:59 --> 00:59:00

He had a great sense of humor,

00:59:00 --> 00:59:01

elegant,

00:59:02 --> 00:59:04

talks about the necessity of reforming the Paysan

00:59:04 --> 00:59:05

Thren,

00:59:05 --> 00:59:07

and is back in.

00:59:08 --> 00:59:09

But

00:59:09 --> 00:59:11

and this tends to dominate his later years.

00:59:12 --> 00:59:15

His health continues to deteriorate. He's diagnosed now

00:59:15 --> 00:59:16

with type 2 diabetes.

00:59:16 --> 00:59:19

He has congestive heart issues. He's significantly

00:59:20 --> 00:59:22

overweight, doesn't take much exercise,

00:59:24 --> 00:59:26

this becomes increasingly an issue.

00:59:27 --> 00:59:29

So this is also the time collapse of

00:59:29 --> 00:59:31

the Iron Curtain and the Americans are less

00:59:31 --> 00:59:34

interested in supporting dictators to keep out the

00:59:34 --> 00:59:37

evils of communism, so that means Suharto is

00:59:38 --> 00:59:39

in a more exposed position.

00:59:40 --> 00:59:43

Suharto decides to respond by flagging up his

00:59:44 --> 00:59:46

supposedly Islamic credentials. He makes the hajj

00:59:47 --> 00:59:48

And on the Hajj,

00:59:49 --> 00:59:51

a lot of rulers who want, you know,

00:59:51 --> 00:59:53

to demonstrate to their people their piety, they

00:59:53 --> 00:59:54

they do the Hajj

00:59:55 --> 00:59:58

specifically and, there's usually cameras around.

01:00:00 --> 01:00:01

I was once in,

01:00:03 --> 01:00:05

doing Umrah in Mecca.

01:00:06 --> 01:00:07

There was some shouting

01:00:07 --> 01:00:08

in the.

01:00:08 --> 01:00:10

So what's going on?

01:00:10 --> 01:00:11

And it was

01:00:15 --> 01:00:16

Adafi.

01:00:17 --> 01:00:18

So instead of saying,

01:00:19 --> 01:00:21

death to America, death to world colonialism.

01:00:22 --> 01:00:23

I better

01:00:23 --> 01:00:25

wait a bit before I join the crowd.

01:00:26 --> 01:00:27

He was he was actually there. I also

01:00:27 --> 01:00:29

saw general Zia there on the Hajj.

01:00:30 --> 01:00:32

You know, the chaos of the Jamar'at where

01:00:32 --> 01:00:35

you're treading on slippers and throwing the stones

01:00:35 --> 01:00:36

and it's like

01:00:36 --> 01:00:37

giama.

01:00:37 --> 01:00:38

Suddenly, this

01:00:39 --> 01:00:39

limousine

01:00:40 --> 01:00:42

cruises up, cuts through the crowd,

01:00:43 --> 01:00:43

police,

01:00:44 --> 01:00:45

the door is opened,

01:00:45 --> 01:00:48

General Zia with his mustache steps out, the

01:00:48 --> 01:00:50

flunky hands him his

01:00:50 --> 01:00:52

7 stones from a bag,

01:00:53 --> 01:00:55

back into the air conditioned limousine and off

01:00:55 --> 01:00:58

he goes. Who's that? So it's a kind

01:00:58 --> 01:00:59

of thing that politicians will do.

01:01:00 --> 01:01:01

Suharto does this,

01:01:02 --> 01:01:05

even though he's made speeches on behalf of

01:01:05 --> 01:01:05

Ataturk

01:01:06 --> 01:01:08

and he is really into the dhorn, which

01:01:08 --> 01:01:10

is the traditional Javanese magic.

01:01:11 --> 01:01:13

He spends time with magicians.

01:01:14 --> 01:01:15

So he has this strange

01:01:16 --> 01:01:18

relationship. On the one hand, he comes from

01:01:18 --> 01:01:21

this Abangan kind of nominal Muslim background, but

01:01:21 --> 01:01:22

on the other hand, he's tried to push

01:01:22 --> 01:01:24

back against them because that was the seed

01:01:24 --> 01:01:25

bed for communism.

01:01:25 --> 01:01:28

So situation is precarious. He starts a mosque

01:01:28 --> 01:01:28

building program.

01:01:30 --> 01:01:32

He creates a new kind of Islamic intellectual

01:01:32 --> 01:01:35

forum, which includes some of the radicals. Abu'lurman

01:01:36 --> 01:01:36

Wahid

01:01:37 --> 01:01:38

refused to join this.

01:01:40 --> 01:01:43

Benny Mordani has already kind of severed whatever

01:01:43 --> 01:01:45

connection he had with Wahid,

01:01:46 --> 01:01:48

so Harto is also starting to undermine him.

01:01:50 --> 01:01:52

Wahid, instead of getting involved in this Islamic

01:01:52 --> 01:01:53

forum,

01:01:53 --> 01:01:56

joins something that actually leads it called the

01:01:56 --> 01:01:59

democracy forum, which includes a lot of Christians

01:01:59 --> 01:02:00

and Buddhists and

01:02:01 --> 01:02:02

other people,

01:02:02 --> 01:02:04

which is not what Suharto expected.

01:02:06 --> 01:02:09

So Suharto tries to get Abdul Rahman Wahid

01:02:09 --> 01:02:10

fired from his post as head of the

01:02:10 --> 01:02:11

Natatul Ullamat,

01:02:15 --> 01:02:16

is not successful.

01:02:18 --> 01:02:21

He falls ill. His situation is obviously precarious.

01:02:22 --> 01:02:25

There's riots everywhere. The secret services are sending

01:02:25 --> 01:02:28

in all this kind of mysterious

01:02:28 --> 01:02:31

outsiders into places like Ambon who don't speak

01:02:31 --> 01:02:33

the local dialect with short hair, who are

01:02:34 --> 01:02:36

sort of throwing petrol bombs at churches and

01:02:36 --> 01:02:38

mosques and making the whole thing,

01:02:39 --> 01:02:41

flare up. The idea being to

01:02:42 --> 01:02:44

rally the people around the military.

01:02:47 --> 01:02:49

Often when these riots take place, it's Abdurrahman

01:02:50 --> 01:02:51

Wahid who goes in to mediate.

01:02:55 --> 01:02:56

And then he gets sicker. He has a

01:02:56 --> 01:02:58

really bad stroke,

01:02:58 --> 01:03:00

very nearly dies,

01:03:00 --> 01:03:02

almost dies at that point. People think, well,

01:03:02 --> 01:03:04

his that's the end of him.

01:03:04 --> 01:03:06

But he does make a partial recovery.

01:03:07 --> 01:03:08

More crises.

01:03:09 --> 01:03:11

1997, the Asian financial crisis.

01:03:11 --> 01:03:13

Catastrophe. A lot of poor people lose their

01:03:13 --> 01:03:14

savings.

01:03:14 --> 01:03:18

It's the usual consequence of casino capitalism. It's

01:03:18 --> 01:03:20

the poor who usually lose their homes or

01:03:20 --> 01:03:20

whatever, as

01:03:21 --> 01:03:23

as with the 2008 financial crisis.

01:03:24 --> 01:03:25

There's a really bad drought.

01:03:26 --> 01:03:27

Something's wrong with the environment.

01:03:30 --> 01:03:31

The IMF

01:03:31 --> 01:03:32

give an emergency

01:03:32 --> 01:03:34

grant to Indonesia,

01:03:34 --> 01:03:37

much of which is obviously being gobbled up

01:03:37 --> 01:03:39

by the Suharto family. It's very conspicuous.

01:03:40 --> 01:03:42

The government is sponsoring attacks on the Chinese

01:03:42 --> 01:03:47

community who are being repressed. Student demonstrations everywhere.

01:03:49 --> 01:03:51

And the military is

01:03:51 --> 01:03:53

not sure what to do, partly because Suharto's

01:03:53 --> 01:03:55

tactic with the army has been to support

01:03:55 --> 01:03:57

rival factions, divide and rule.

01:04:00 --> 01:04:01

And the olema

01:04:02 --> 01:04:03

say it's time for elections.

01:04:04 --> 01:04:07

So, you can go past your sell by

01:04:07 --> 01:04:07

date.

01:04:08 --> 01:04:10

We need the people to choose something better.

01:04:10 --> 01:04:13

It's a very, very precarious time for Indonesia.

01:04:14 --> 01:04:16

Americans are not really backing the military any

01:04:16 --> 01:04:17

longer.

01:04:17 --> 01:04:20

You've got all of these really horrible, brutal

01:04:20 --> 01:04:22

ethnic riots and people going through the streets

01:04:22 --> 01:04:25

with sharpened bamboo poles looking for members of

01:04:25 --> 01:04:26

rival

01:04:26 --> 01:04:27

communities.

01:04:28 --> 01:04:30

It's a complicated country to to govern.

01:04:32 --> 01:04:35

So Suharto invites senior Olamat to his palace

01:04:35 --> 01:04:37

and asks for their support.

01:04:39 --> 01:04:41

Muhammadiyah, Natadu Olamah are both there and say,

01:04:41 --> 01:04:43

first, you have to return

01:04:43 --> 01:04:45

all of the wealth that your family has

01:04:45 --> 01:04:47

expropriated because this is too extreme. All of

01:04:47 --> 01:04:50

that IMF money, give it back.

01:04:51 --> 01:04:52

So Hartal's

01:04:52 --> 01:04:54

response is to resign.

01:04:56 --> 01:04:59

Jakarta is in chaos. Students are occupying parliament.

01:05:00 --> 01:05:02

Abu Rahman Wahid is still really sick,

01:05:04 --> 01:05:06

hardly mobile after the stroke and the diabetes

01:05:06 --> 01:05:09

and can't see properly. But people are coming

01:05:09 --> 01:05:10

to his bedside and to his house.

01:05:11 --> 01:05:13

He's in a wheel wheelchair getting about

01:05:13 --> 01:05:16

asking for his advice. Where do they turn

01:05:16 --> 01:05:18

in this kind of sea of 2 200,000,000

01:05:18 --> 01:05:20

anxious people? There's a new caretaker president,

01:05:21 --> 01:05:22

president Habibi.

01:05:24 --> 01:05:25

Abdulrahman Warhid

01:05:26 --> 01:05:28

advocates a slow progressive approach to him,

01:05:29 --> 01:05:31

talks to him about some of the more

01:05:31 --> 01:05:34

anti Chinese elements of his cabinet who he

01:05:34 --> 01:05:35

thinks are bad news.

01:05:36 --> 01:05:37

Habibi actually turns out

01:05:38 --> 01:05:40

to be better than expected. He does open

01:05:40 --> 01:05:41

up the field,

01:05:42 --> 01:05:42

for

01:05:43 --> 01:05:45

a more thriving democracy. He allows more parties

01:05:45 --> 01:05:46

to be established.

01:05:46 --> 01:05:48

Suddenly, a range of Islamist parties

01:05:49 --> 01:05:50

pop up.

01:05:52 --> 01:05:53

But there's still,

01:05:54 --> 01:05:56

communal violence. Some of the hardcore

01:05:57 --> 01:05:59

supporters of Suhartos called Karabati

01:05:59 --> 01:06:02

are beating up and killing, letters to the

01:06:02 --> 01:06:03

olamah scholars,

01:06:04 --> 01:06:05

perhaps as a provocation.

01:06:06 --> 01:06:08

Wahid urges restraint, don't retaliate.

01:06:09 --> 01:06:11

East Timor is a catastrophe,

01:06:12 --> 01:06:14

but Wahid won't oppose

01:06:14 --> 01:06:18

won't support an independence referee referendum until Jakarta

01:06:18 --> 01:06:20

is under some kind of order because

01:06:21 --> 01:06:23

the central government is in no position to

01:06:23 --> 01:06:25

preside over anything there.

01:06:26 --> 01:06:29

In West Timor anti Muslim riots, dozens of

01:06:29 --> 01:06:30

mosques are destroyed.

01:06:31 --> 01:06:33

Ambon, which is a mixed island, a lot

01:06:33 --> 01:06:34

of violence. Ace,

01:06:35 --> 01:06:36

which has never really

01:06:36 --> 01:06:39

liked being part of Indonesia. It's a different

01:06:39 --> 01:06:42

language, different culture. It didn't Islamized much earlier.

01:06:43 --> 01:06:44

Mordania

01:06:44 --> 01:06:46

sent the army into

01:06:47 --> 01:06:49

Aceh. His eyesight is now more or less

01:06:49 --> 01:06:52

defunct. He travels to various clinics

01:06:52 --> 01:06:55

hoping it can be restored, but he can't

01:06:55 --> 01:06:57

read any longer. He can hardly see.

01:06:58 --> 01:07:01

So 1999 with a country in real crisis,

01:07:01 --> 01:07:03

the possibility of total anarchy and chaos,

01:07:05 --> 01:07:07

He decides to run for president,

01:07:11 --> 01:07:13

because he's a kind of unifying

01:07:13 --> 01:07:14

figure.

01:07:14 --> 01:07:16

He's credible because of his

01:07:17 --> 01:07:18

record of opposition

01:07:18 --> 01:07:19

to Suharto.

01:07:20 --> 01:07:22

Because of his moderate policies, the minorities trust

01:07:22 --> 01:07:23

him.

01:07:23 --> 01:07:24

And,

01:07:25 --> 01:07:27

the Western media, I remember at the time,

01:07:27 --> 01:07:30

flips out and says Muslim cleric elected as

01:07:30 --> 01:07:31

leader of

01:07:32 --> 01:07:34

Islam's most populous country and they think it's

01:07:34 --> 01:07:35

Khomeini

01:07:35 --> 01:07:37

landing in Tehran airport because

01:07:38 --> 01:07:40

they've they've never met a traditional Muslim scholar.

01:07:40 --> 01:07:42

They only know these kind of

01:07:42 --> 01:07:43

anxiety,

01:07:45 --> 01:07:45

ideologues.

01:07:47 --> 01:07:49

But that is the case. He's a traditionally

01:07:49 --> 01:07:51

trained Alem. He's been to Pessentherin. He's not

01:07:51 --> 01:07:53

got a western style degree, but now he's

01:07:53 --> 01:07:55

running. He's in the presidential palace

01:07:56 --> 01:07:58

built for the Dutch governors. He's in that

01:07:58 --> 01:07:59

world of

01:07:59 --> 01:08:00

protocol.

01:08:03 --> 01:08:05

And the swearing in. He can't actually read

01:08:05 --> 01:08:07

the oath because his eyes are so bad,

01:08:07 --> 01:08:08

so an army officer has to read it

01:08:08 --> 01:08:10

and he repeats the words after him. That

01:08:10 --> 01:08:11

doesn't

01:08:11 --> 01:08:13

doesn't look so good.

01:08:14 --> 01:08:16

But he wants to make a clean sweep.

01:08:17 --> 01:08:18

One of the first things he does is

01:08:18 --> 01:08:20

to abolish the Ministry of Information.

01:08:21 --> 01:08:23

Ministry of information, a lot of Muslim countries

01:08:23 --> 01:08:25

like to have those in order to control

01:08:25 --> 01:08:26

the discourse

01:08:26 --> 01:08:27

Orwellian.

01:08:27 --> 01:08:29

He just gets rid of it altogether.

01:08:29 --> 01:08:32

What what's the point? Information is is already

01:08:32 --> 01:08:34

there. You don't need the government to shape

01:08:34 --> 01:08:35

it. That goes completely.

01:08:36 --> 01:08:38

The Ministry of Religion is downsized

01:08:38 --> 01:08:41

because she has a bad experience of state

01:08:41 --> 01:08:42

intervention,

01:08:43 --> 01:08:44

official khutbas

01:08:45 --> 01:08:48

and interfering in mosque imam appointments or in

01:08:48 --> 01:08:48

the churches.

01:08:49 --> 01:08:52

There's still a ministry of religious affairs, but

01:08:52 --> 01:08:54

it's not this kind of huge controlling thing

01:08:54 --> 01:08:55

that it used to be.

01:08:56 --> 01:08:57

Irianjaya,

01:08:57 --> 01:08:58

which is,

01:08:59 --> 01:09:01

if you know the map perhaps, you know

01:09:01 --> 01:09:04

that the eastern part is Papua New Guinea

01:09:04 --> 01:09:05

and the western part,

01:09:06 --> 01:09:07

is part of Indonesia

01:09:08 --> 01:09:10

and ethnically very mixed. There have been Muslim

01:09:10 --> 01:09:13

Sultanates there for 600 years, but the inland

01:09:13 --> 01:09:14

is sort of Austronesian

01:09:14 --> 01:09:15

people.

01:09:15 --> 01:09:16

Difficult.

01:09:18 --> 01:09:20

He is reconciled to the local

01:09:20 --> 01:09:24

separatists by offering various concessions even by changing

01:09:24 --> 01:09:25

the the name

01:09:26 --> 01:09:28

of the province. There's a revolutionary government now

01:09:28 --> 01:09:31

in East Timor. He personally travels to Dili,

01:09:31 --> 01:09:34

the capital of East Timor, in order to

01:09:34 --> 01:09:37

offer apologies to the revolutionary government for the

01:09:37 --> 01:09:41

crimes that were committed under the Indonesian occupation.

01:09:42 --> 01:09:44

He goes to South Africa to meet Nelson

01:09:44 --> 01:09:46

Mandela, who advises him to create a kind

01:09:46 --> 01:09:47

of truth and reconciliation

01:09:48 --> 01:09:49

committee for newly democratic

01:09:50 --> 01:09:50

Indonesia.

01:09:52 --> 01:09:54

It's not very easy. Tries to rein in

01:09:54 --> 01:09:55

the military.

01:09:56 --> 01:09:58

That never goes down well. Like what happened

01:09:58 --> 01:10:00

in Pakistan a few months ago.

01:10:01 --> 01:10:03

And he sacks the the the key general

01:10:03 --> 01:10:05

Viram Thol, and he makes quite a few

01:10:05 --> 01:10:07

enemies in the military.

01:10:10 --> 01:10:12

He tries to be reconciled to the Chinese

01:10:12 --> 01:10:13

community.

01:10:13 --> 01:10:16

Under Sukarno and Suharto, it had been illegal

01:10:16 --> 01:10:19

to display the Chinese alphabet in public.

01:10:20 --> 01:10:21

He lifts that prohibition.

01:10:23 --> 01:10:25

He makes the Chinese New Year an

01:10:31 --> 01:10:31

country.

01:10:32 --> 01:10:35

That's quite a big change. The Chinese, even

01:10:35 --> 01:10:36

though they're a wealthy,

01:10:37 --> 01:10:38

mercantile minority,

01:10:39 --> 01:10:42

had often been at the receiving end of

01:10:42 --> 01:10:43

pogroms riots,

01:10:44 --> 01:10:47

suspicions about their true loyalties for a long

01:10:47 --> 01:10:48

time.

01:10:52 --> 01:10:56

It's still a very precarious and anarchic situation

01:10:57 --> 01:10:58

that students want

01:10:59 --> 01:11:01

big figures in the old Suharto regime

01:11:02 --> 01:11:05

not to be left to a reconciliation committee,

01:11:05 --> 01:11:06

but to be prosecuted.

01:11:07 --> 01:11:08

The Islamists

01:11:09 --> 01:11:11

really don't like him. The legal system is

01:11:11 --> 01:11:13

totally corrupt, really difficult to reform.

01:11:14 --> 01:11:15

Very hard to,

01:11:16 --> 01:11:19

pursue a legal case, a civil case in

01:11:19 --> 01:11:21

the courts there because everything seems to be

01:11:21 --> 01:11:22

for sale.

01:11:23 --> 01:11:24

The military,

01:11:27 --> 01:11:29

which is, you know, a big section of

01:11:29 --> 01:11:30

the economy,

01:11:31 --> 01:11:34

most of the revenue for the military comes

01:11:34 --> 01:11:37

from soldiers doing business, generals with forestry businesses

01:11:37 --> 01:11:39

and so forth. That doesn't look so good.

01:11:39 --> 01:11:41

A lot of corrupt politicians, a lot of

01:11:41 --> 01:11:42

people from the ancient regime

01:11:42 --> 01:11:45

try to force him to resign. He tries

01:11:45 --> 01:11:47

to fire the chief of police,

01:11:48 --> 01:11:49

who was

01:11:50 --> 01:11:52

notoriously accused of corruption for having

01:11:53 --> 01:11:55

defrauded a Canadian company,

01:11:56 --> 01:11:58

sold them shares that had already been sold

01:11:58 --> 01:12:00

to some other apparently mythical

01:12:01 --> 01:12:03

person. Chief of police is somebody you don't

01:12:03 --> 01:12:06

necessarily want to antagonize. Television stations,

01:12:07 --> 01:12:09

in many ways still controlled by the Suharto

01:12:09 --> 01:12:11

family, all thy cronies.

01:12:12 --> 01:12:14

The newspapers are pretty hostile to him.

01:12:15 --> 01:12:16

The crisis gets worse.

01:12:17 --> 01:12:19

Maybe he's trying to do too much too

01:12:19 --> 01:12:19

quickly.

01:12:20 --> 01:12:21

For

01:12:21 --> 01:12:23

50 years, they've had a totalitarian,

01:12:23 --> 01:12:25

statist regime and he wants to open things

01:12:25 --> 01:12:26

up.

01:12:27 --> 01:12:30

So the army appear. They bring 40,000

01:12:31 --> 01:12:32

soldiers into Jakarta,

01:12:34 --> 01:12:36

put tanks all around the presidential palace.

01:12:39 --> 01:12:40

His deputy is

01:12:41 --> 01:12:44

Megawati Sukarno Putri, the daughter of Sukarno.

01:12:45 --> 01:12:47

He doesn't want her to become president because

01:12:47 --> 01:12:48

she's

01:12:49 --> 01:12:50

got hard line military connections,

01:12:51 --> 01:12:53

and he thinks that the minorities are going

01:12:53 --> 01:12:55

to rebel again, and you'll have this kind

01:12:55 --> 01:12:57

of colonial situation in Aceh, Erianjaya,

01:12:58 --> 01:12:59

those other places. He really

01:12:59 --> 01:13:01

doesn't trust her,

01:13:02 --> 01:13:04

to deal with the provinces.

01:13:05 --> 01:13:07

It actually deputed her to deal with the

01:13:07 --> 01:13:09

riots in Ambon and she hadn't she hadn't

01:13:09 --> 01:13:12

achieved anything. And she also was known to

01:13:12 --> 01:13:13

have a kind of cult of personality.

01:13:14 --> 01:13:14

But,

01:13:16 --> 01:13:18

parliament is by now against him. The media

01:13:18 --> 01:13:21

is against him. The military is against him.

01:13:22 --> 01:13:24

And the parliament vote for him to be

01:13:24 --> 01:13:25

impeached.

01:13:30 --> 01:13:33

Natadul Olamat students everywhere rioting. Abdulrahman Wawhid tells

01:13:33 --> 01:13:34

them to calm down.

01:13:36 --> 01:13:39

So he's just got hours left in the

01:13:39 --> 01:13:42

former Dutch palace in this unsettled situation.

01:13:44 --> 01:13:47

It is telling the last hours of his

01:13:47 --> 01:13:47

rule.

01:13:49 --> 01:13:50

Late at night,

01:13:51 --> 01:13:53

some journalists go in to interview him,

01:13:54 --> 01:13:57

And he's really a kind of informal alim.

01:13:57 --> 01:13:59

If you've ever studied with traditional olamak, you'll

01:13:59 --> 01:14:00

know how

01:14:00 --> 01:14:02

relaxed they are.

01:14:03 --> 01:14:04

They kind of lie down on the floor

01:14:04 --> 01:14:06

like this, fiddle with their turbans,

01:14:07 --> 01:14:08

kind of

01:14:08 --> 01:14:09

total relaxation.

01:14:12 --> 01:14:15

Mauritanians, in particular, just kind of lie down

01:14:15 --> 01:14:17

and flip their big blue robes all day

01:14:17 --> 01:14:17

is

01:14:19 --> 01:14:20

they they chill.

01:14:22 --> 01:14:25

So this Alim, the Alim president comes out

01:14:25 --> 01:14:26

at 11 PM or something to see the

01:14:26 --> 01:14:29

journalists, Reuters and so forth. And it is

01:14:29 --> 01:14:31

in his house clothes, which kind of what

01:14:31 --> 01:14:33

Indonesians wear when they're at home, baggy shorts

01:14:33 --> 01:14:35

and a t shirt, flip flops.

01:14:36 --> 01:14:38

They're expecting the president of the republic with

01:14:38 --> 01:14:40

a suit and a ribbon.

01:14:41 --> 01:14:44

He comes out and and, of course, the

01:14:44 --> 01:14:45

headline in the Western press is head of

01:14:45 --> 01:14:46

state

01:14:47 --> 01:14:47

has

01:14:50 --> 01:14:53

gone senile, and he's giving interviews in his

01:14:53 --> 01:14:53

underwear.

01:14:54 --> 01:14:56

They just don't get him. He's really not

01:14:56 --> 01:14:59

an ego. He's just like that. He wants

01:14:59 --> 01:15:01

to talk to a journalist. Fine. Why does

01:15:01 --> 01:15:03

he need to put on a bunch of

01:15:03 --> 01:15:05

medals? And the last day in the presidential

01:15:05 --> 01:15:07

palace, the visitors, not politicians, but the country's

01:15:07 --> 01:15:08

religious leaders.

01:15:09 --> 01:15:11

First up, the the Buddhist leaders with their

01:15:11 --> 01:15:12

saffron robes and,

01:15:13 --> 01:15:15

they come to bless him,

01:15:16 --> 01:15:17

And then

01:15:18 --> 01:15:20

Christian evangelicals come along. 1 of them anoints

01:15:20 --> 01:15:23

him with holy oil and reads the Bible.

01:15:23 --> 01:15:25

And so that's kind of the way in

01:15:25 --> 01:15:27

which he goes out

01:15:27 --> 01:15:29

of power by being blessed by the country's

01:15:29 --> 01:15:30

different religions.

01:15:34 --> 01:15:36

Then he goes off to America for medical

01:15:36 --> 01:15:36

treatment.

01:15:37 --> 01:15:39

Next time he tries to run, I think

01:15:39 --> 01:15:39

it's 2,004,

01:15:40 --> 01:15:41

he's disqualified

01:15:42 --> 01:15:44

on medical grounds. He's just not not fit.

01:15:45 --> 01:15:47

But he continues to talk from the side

01:15:48 --> 01:15:50

sidelines, particularly criticizing the military.

01:15:52 --> 01:15:54

Many of you will remember 20 years ago

01:15:54 --> 01:15:55

the Bali bombings.

01:15:58 --> 01:16:00

2005, he was interviewed by an American TV

01:16:00 --> 01:16:01

station

01:16:01 --> 01:16:02

and said

01:16:03 --> 01:16:04

that whole thing was set up by the

01:16:04 --> 01:16:05

military

01:16:05 --> 01:16:06

to justify

01:16:06 --> 01:16:08

crackdowns that they wanted to do. The whole

01:16:08 --> 01:16:10

thing was a false flag operation.

01:16:11 --> 01:16:12

It didn't make him very popular.

01:16:14 --> 01:16:14

2009,

01:16:15 --> 01:16:18

ailing by now, he travels off to Jom

01:16:18 --> 01:16:20

Bang, his hometown, to visit the grave of

01:16:20 --> 01:16:21

his parents at his Pheasantren.

01:16:22 --> 01:16:25

And there in December, his health really takes

01:16:25 --> 01:16:26

a turn for the worse.

01:16:27 --> 01:16:29

And on the 30th December, he dies

01:16:30 --> 01:16:33

buried next to his parents. A simple open

01:16:33 --> 01:16:36

grave in traditional Javanese style, open to the

01:16:36 --> 01:16:37

to the rain. So

01:16:38 --> 01:16:39

we should wind up.

01:16:40 --> 01:16:43

I think there's already a lot of lessons

01:16:43 --> 01:16:43

here.

01:16:44 --> 01:16:45

Essentially,

01:16:46 --> 01:16:47

what we're looking at is

01:16:49 --> 01:16:51

the extent to which somebody who is traditionally,

01:16:52 --> 01:16:52

classically,

01:16:53 --> 01:16:54

medievally Islamic

01:16:54 --> 01:16:55

in his formation

01:16:57 --> 01:16:58

can run a modern state,

01:16:59 --> 01:17:00

particularly a really

01:17:00 --> 01:17:03

complicated, fractious one like Indonesia?

01:17:04 --> 01:17:06

Is that possible? Do we need somebody from

01:17:06 --> 01:17:07

the secular elite?

01:17:09 --> 01:17:10

Kind of,

01:17:12 --> 01:17:13

Benazir type

01:17:14 --> 01:17:16

Megawati sometimes compared to Benazir.

01:17:17 --> 01:17:20

She really didn't make a great job of

01:17:20 --> 01:17:21

it. She sent the army back into Aceh

01:17:21 --> 01:17:23

and there were rapes and burnings, and it

01:17:23 --> 01:17:26

was quite horrible. This is what Wahid was

01:17:26 --> 01:17:28

afraid of. Do we want somebody like that?

01:17:30 --> 01:17:32

Journalists will go and interview Benazir Bhutto, and

01:17:32 --> 01:17:34

the first 10 minutes would be talking about

01:17:34 --> 01:17:36

Harrods or something.

01:17:36 --> 01:17:37

Are those the appropriate people?

01:17:40 --> 01:17:42

Or that Islamists

01:17:42 --> 01:17:43

with their ideological

01:17:44 --> 01:17:45

view of Islam as a single

01:17:46 --> 01:17:47

set of simple answers

01:17:48 --> 01:17:51

and the determination to use the nation state

01:17:51 --> 01:17:54

as an instrument of of collective coercion,

01:17:54 --> 01:17:55

a totalitarian

01:17:55 --> 01:17:57

model in the kind of

01:17:57 --> 01:17:59

ISIS or Taliban

01:17:59 --> 01:18:00

style?

01:18:01 --> 01:18:02

Or

01:18:02 --> 01:18:05

should we look to see this example of

01:18:05 --> 01:18:06

somebody who is unimpeachably,

01:18:07 --> 01:18:07

classically

01:18:08 --> 01:18:10

conservative in his training,

01:18:11 --> 01:18:12

but who

01:18:12 --> 01:18:15

knows a lot about the contemporary world and

01:18:15 --> 01:18:17

can talk to you about Dostoevsky

01:18:18 --> 01:18:18

and Marx,

01:18:20 --> 01:18:21

understands his people,

01:18:22 --> 01:18:24

who did it rather differently,

01:18:26 --> 01:18:28

really set Indonesia up to be one of

01:18:28 --> 01:18:29

the tiger economies

01:18:29 --> 01:18:32

despite everything. He was the 1st democratically

01:18:32 --> 01:18:35

elected president of a difficult country and,

01:18:36 --> 01:18:37

managed the transition.

01:18:39 --> 01:18:41

Other things that we might want to think

01:18:41 --> 01:18:44

about is the kind of temperament. What what

01:18:44 --> 01:18:47

sort of individual is the traditional island?

01:18:48 --> 01:18:50

Well, if you have studied

01:18:50 --> 01:18:51

with traditional olamat,

01:18:52 --> 01:18:53

you will find

01:18:54 --> 01:18:55

that they are laid back individuals,

01:18:58 --> 01:19:00

that they are interested in just about everybody.

01:19:02 --> 01:19:03

They want to know who you are

01:19:04 --> 01:19:06

and what they can learn about you. It

01:19:06 --> 01:19:08

could be this guy from Cambridge who walks

01:19:08 --> 01:19:11

into Sheikha Vadani's majlis. Who's just interested?

01:19:12 --> 01:19:13

Or it could be

01:19:15 --> 01:19:16

a Buddhist monk

01:19:16 --> 01:19:18

somewhere in Central Java.

01:19:19 --> 01:19:21

Interesting. Find out about that person.

01:19:22 --> 01:19:25

Don't jump into some kind of negative reflex.

01:19:25 --> 01:19:26

Find out.

01:19:27 --> 01:19:29

Another member of Benny Adam.

01:19:32 --> 01:19:33

Humor, another thing.

01:19:35 --> 01:19:37

One of the things that the traditional Olamath

01:19:37 --> 01:19:39

tend to be very good at is jokes.

01:19:40 --> 01:19:42

And one of the ways in which,

01:19:43 --> 01:19:45

Gostor won people over was through his

01:19:46 --> 01:19:47

rambunctious

01:19:47 --> 01:19:48

Javanese humor.

01:19:50 --> 01:19:51

One of his favorite characters from the way

01:19:51 --> 01:19:53

and called it shadow puppies was Semar, who's

01:19:53 --> 01:19:55

a kind of Nasseridin Hodja.

01:19:56 --> 01:19:56

Holy

01:19:57 --> 01:19:58

fool, who instructs through

01:19:59 --> 01:20:02

rather ambiguous, sometimes risque forms of humor.

01:20:04 --> 01:20:08

And again, the traditional olema very often do

01:20:08 --> 01:20:09

crack jokes.

01:20:10 --> 01:20:11

Certainly, I

01:20:12 --> 01:20:12

I I think

01:20:13 --> 01:20:15

that the time when I have laughed most

01:20:16 --> 01:20:18

in my life was in the Maliki fiqh

01:20:18 --> 01:20:19

classes of Sheikh Ismail

01:20:20 --> 01:20:22

in Cairo, who is the imam of the

01:20:22 --> 01:20:22

Azar mosque.

01:20:24 --> 01:20:26

He was he was just such a brilliant

01:20:26 --> 01:20:29

wit. Absolutely perfect. We were kind of

01:20:29 --> 01:20:30

splitting our sides,

01:20:32 --> 01:20:34

even though we were studying something about ablution

01:20:34 --> 01:20:36

and he turned it into this

01:20:36 --> 01:20:37

funny thing,

01:20:38 --> 01:20:40

very brilliant. That's how the traditional olema are,

01:20:40 --> 01:20:43

and it's important to remember that. If you

01:20:43 --> 01:20:46

read books like Mohammed Jamal Zadeh's

01:20:47 --> 01:20:50

book, Isfahan is Half the World, which has

01:20:50 --> 01:20:52

been done into English, Isfahan, Nisfahan,

01:20:52 --> 01:20:55

it was a mid-twentieth century Iranian short story

01:20:55 --> 01:20:56

writer, Pre Khomeini,

01:20:57 --> 01:20:59

who describes how the olamat were in his

01:20:59 --> 01:21:00

childhood

01:21:01 --> 01:21:02

and their their generosity,

01:21:03 --> 01:21:04

their interest in people,

01:21:04 --> 01:21:05

their tolerance,

01:21:06 --> 01:21:07

their wit.

01:21:08 --> 01:21:10

Reading that book quite reminded me of what

01:21:10 --> 01:21:11

I saw in

01:21:12 --> 01:21:13

in Cairo.

01:21:13 --> 01:21:15

So that, I think,

01:21:15 --> 01:21:18

probably helped him in his leadership skills.

01:21:21 --> 01:21:22

The Natat al olamat

01:21:23 --> 01:21:25

never really developed, as far as I know,

01:21:25 --> 01:21:26

I don't read it in Indonesian,

01:21:27 --> 01:21:28

a systematic

01:21:28 --> 01:21:29

philosophical

01:21:29 --> 01:21:30

or soul based

01:21:31 --> 01:21:34

rejection of the idea that you can have

01:21:34 --> 01:21:34

a totalitarian

01:21:35 --> 01:21:36

religious state

01:21:37 --> 01:21:39

using the very western idea of a nation

01:21:39 --> 01:21:40

state in order to

01:21:41 --> 01:21:42

enforce religion

01:21:43 --> 01:21:45

rather than the traditional Muslim

01:21:45 --> 01:21:48

image of a vibrant civil society with alqaf

01:21:48 --> 01:21:51

and tariqas and gills that the state wouldn't

01:21:51 --> 01:21:52

get involved with.

01:21:54 --> 01:21:56

But there was a guy called Ahmed Sadiq

01:21:56 --> 01:21:58

who was a Nader al Umar scholar

01:21:59 --> 01:22:00

in the 1950s

01:22:00 --> 01:22:02

who did write some interesting things about

01:22:03 --> 01:22:04

how Islam is just incompatible

01:22:05 --> 01:22:06

with the idea of

01:22:07 --> 01:22:08

statist religion.

01:22:09 --> 01:22:11

Maybe they're still working on that.

01:22:16 --> 01:22:18

Yeah. In any case,

01:22:18 --> 01:22:20

his legacy continues. Some of you might have

01:22:20 --> 01:22:22

seen the news that on Eid al Fitr,

01:22:22 --> 01:22:25

the Indonesian Air Force was active over Gaza

01:22:25 --> 01:22:26

dropping aid.

01:22:29 --> 01:22:32

They are working out as everybody else's, their

01:22:32 --> 01:22:33

identity as Muslims into

01:22:34 --> 01:22:36

complex uproar of the modern world. But it

01:22:36 --> 01:22:38

seems that they have come up with a

01:22:39 --> 01:22:42

viable, stable solution, unlike so many of the

01:22:42 --> 01:22:44

Arab countries, which have been imploding.

01:22:46 --> 01:22:47

Since Wahid

01:22:49 --> 01:22:51

left the Middle East. Iraq is destroyed. Syria

01:22:51 --> 01:22:52

is destroyed.

01:22:53 --> 01:22:55

Yemen is destroyed. Sudan is destroyed. Libya is

01:22:55 --> 01:22:58

destroyed. One country after another. Part of the

01:22:58 --> 01:23:00

reason for that, only one part, is the

01:23:00 --> 01:23:01

fact that there are intransigent Muslims

01:23:02 --> 01:23:03

anxious about modernity,

01:23:04 --> 01:23:05

insistent on

01:23:05 --> 01:23:07

expressing that anxiety

01:23:07 --> 01:23:10

by creating an ideological form of Islam that

01:23:10 --> 01:23:12

you have to comply with or else.

01:23:13 --> 01:23:14

Gusteau

01:23:14 --> 01:23:16

is coming from a place that is not

01:23:16 --> 01:23:17

a liberal place,

01:23:18 --> 01:23:21

really Western categories such as that didn't quite

01:23:21 --> 01:23:21

apply,

01:23:22 --> 01:23:24

but, a place where there is,

01:23:25 --> 01:23:28

a respect for the Quranic injunction that the

01:23:28 --> 01:23:30

religion of Islam should be Muhammin,

01:23:31 --> 01:23:33

protector of the earlier communities.

01:23:33 --> 01:23:36

This idea that the difference of your tongues

01:23:36 --> 01:23:38

and languages, which means cultures, I guess, is

01:23:38 --> 01:23:41

a sign of god. Indonesia was a kind

01:23:41 --> 01:23:43

of good testing ground for the applicability

01:23:43 --> 01:23:44

of that Qur'anic

01:23:45 --> 01:23:46

pluralistic vision.

01:23:49 --> 01:23:51

So may Allah shower his mercy upon the

01:23:51 --> 01:23:53

one who now rests in in Jombang and

01:23:53 --> 01:23:55

Charlene Sparas all to go to Indonesia

01:23:56 --> 01:23:59

and pray for the Indonesian people as they

01:23:59 --> 01:24:02

continue this difficult journey in which they negotiate,

01:24:03 --> 01:24:05

religion and modernity.

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