Abdal Hakim Murad – Abdurrahman Wahid Paradigms of Leadership

Abdal Hakim Murad
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The history and cultural context of the Islamized region of Java in impressions of the rainforest in Southern Guinea is discussed, including political and cultural events such as violent riots leading to deadly terrorist behavior. The President of Indonesia is wary of the media and the presence of the army, while Benjamin Gostor is mentioned as a candidate. The Olamath's hesitation to run a modern state and the importance of understanding the difference between Islam and modernity are also discussed.

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			So I've lost count of, where we are
		
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			in this open ended series of,
		
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			inhaling some of the blessings of,
		
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			those who have gone by and who continue
		
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			to teach, sometimes at a distance of 1000
		
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			of years and,
		
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			1000 of miles.
		
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			My scholars used to say, by remembering them
		
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			does the mercy descend.
		
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			There's a certain fragrance
		
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			that attaches to their life and works
		
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			and the recollection
		
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			of their,
		
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			inward lives that can
		
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			be therapeutic to those of us who live
		
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			in this time of plenty and of uproar.
		
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			So as well as these being little snippets
		
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			of biodata, data, these paradigms of leadership lectures,
		
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			inshallah, allow us in some mysterious mystical way,
		
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			to feel our hearts connecting
		
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			to the on going spiritual presence
		
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			of those who have,
		
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			really shaped the life of the Ummah
		
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			by the grace of God.
		
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			So, today I want to
		
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			move to,
		
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			what is increasingly becoming
		
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			central
		
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			to the Islamic world intellectually even though geographically
		
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			we assume that it's on the, the margins,
		
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			which is,
		
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			the
		
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			very complex
		
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			country of Indonesia.
		
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			Some of you, I suspect, will
		
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			have accompanied us on the CMC tour of
		
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			Java. There
		
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			are some videos entitled The Inward Land, which
		
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			are on our
		
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			website, which were I think it's not free.
		
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			It's behind
		
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			humble paywall.
		
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			You can get some sense of
		
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			what we did when we were there. And
		
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			the amazingness,
		
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			of the whole experience to those who are
		
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			familiar with the view that says Islam is
		
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			kind of centered in the Middle East. Of
		
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			course, demographically most Muslims in the world live
		
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			east of Karachi.
		
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			Very often people, including journalists, tend to forget
		
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			that the center of gravity for the Ummah
		
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			is
		
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			further east
		
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			Omer is further east even than Pakistan. Indonesia,
		
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			the world's most populous Muslim country.
		
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			Indonesia, the country that has more Islamic universities
		
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			than all the Arab countries put together.
		
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			About 23%
		
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			of Indonesian students go to Islamic universities, which
		
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			is much higher than Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Iraq,
		
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			those places.
		
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			Significant place,
		
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			and a country which
		
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			there's arguments
		
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			about religious movements there.
		
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			But last year there was a survey by
		
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			Pew which reckoned that 93%
		
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			of the Indonesian population self identifies as Muslim.
		
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			Maybe 10,000
		
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			inhabited islands.
		
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			No country really is like that. Maybe 200
		
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			major languages,
		
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			different races,
		
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			6 official religions. It's in many ways the
		
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			most complicated
		
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			national space for Islam to operate in and
		
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			yet clearly it's thriving. Part of the miraculous
		
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			proof of the universality
		
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			of Muhammad and Revelation is the fact that
		
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			from this very specifically Arabian dusty town in
		
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			the 7th century,
		
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			it fits
		
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			so neatly the spiritual needs of spiritual needs
		
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			of people living in the rainforest in Southern
		
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			Sumatra. And,
		
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			yeah, it turns out to be particular in
		
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			its origins,
		
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			universal in its appeal.
		
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			So
		
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			I don't want to do too much of
		
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			the history.
		
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			And again,
		
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			the Inwood Land lectures, I think, give it
		
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			in somewhat more detail.
		
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			Essentially, Islamized from the 13th century onwards by
		
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			Muslims from the Cham Kingdom, which is kind
		
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			of
		
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			former Muslim areas of Kampuchea,
		
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			Laos,
		
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			southern coast of Vietnam.
		
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			Now there's still Muslims there but really diminished
		
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			following various
		
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			colonial and communist,
		
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			genocides.
		
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			Although I remember that the very beloved
		
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			imam of the Azhar Students Mosque when I
		
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			was living in Cairo is actually a Cham
		
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			Muslim Kampuchean
		
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			very, very beautiful,
		
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			luminous young man. Gujarat is also involved basically
		
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			traders because if you want to get from
		
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			India to China, Europe less, through the Sunda
		
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			Straits.
		
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			You would have to go through the Straits
		
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			of Malacca. Less through the Sundar Straits, you
		
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			would have to go through the Strait of
		
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			Malacca,
		
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			the difficult tidal waters between Sumatra
		
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			and North
		
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			Java. It was the
		
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			the nautical equivalent of the Silk Route and
		
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			therefore,
		
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			cosmopolitan
		
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			from a fairly
		
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			a place like that is
		
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			the
		
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			a place like that, is the enormous,
		
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			almost indefinite diversity
		
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			of the cultures
		
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			of
		
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			this nation,
		
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			which in its current borders is more or
		
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			less left over from various colonial arrangements between
		
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			the British and the Portuguese
		
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			and the Dutch,
		
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			but which has that I suppose will be
		
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			our main theme today. The question of how
		
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			Islam can function as a therapeutic
		
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			and a unifying force in such a, colossomy
		
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			diverse
		
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			and un Arabian
		
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			cultural space.
		
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			So Islamization
		
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			begins in the coast and then it pushes
		
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			inland.
		
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			Java is where the great ancient civilizations are,
		
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			the ancient Hindu kingdom of Majapahit.
		
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			And famously, it's the Wali Songon. And those
		
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			who are with us,
		
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			you may recall those
		
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			bus rides 4 o'clock in the morning, lurching
		
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			down the Javanese roads going from shrine to
		
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			shrine. It was quite it was quite a
		
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			night.
		
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			But those 9 saints are the ones who
		
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			are popularly credited with the Islamization
		
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			of Java. Basically, it's the the Nakshbandi and
		
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			Qadiri Tariqas that did the work so that
		
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			Java is today the
		
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			world's most populous island and has, like, a
		
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			90%
		
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			Muslim population. So they did their work well.
		
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			Then the Dutch turn up.
		
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			Dutch colonialism
		
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			is not very
		
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			agreeable.
		
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			After all, they're the ones who start the
		
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			kind of racial hierarchy in South Africa.
		
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			The Afrikana mentality comes from a certain type
		
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			of Calvinistic
		
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			collection of ideas about, about,
		
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			biblical assumptions about race and,
		
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			so they have a hard time. And in
		
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			fact, if you go to,
		
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			Cape Town, you'll find that Cape Town is
		
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			ringed with what they call the Kramats, which
		
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			is
		
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			the Indonesian
		
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			Malayo word for a saint's tomb,
		
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			including some really great ones.
		
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			Makassari
		
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			is a famous one outside Cape Town. He
		
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			was one of the great commentators
		
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			on Ibn Arabi,
		
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			in Indonesia before the Dutch deported him. And,
		
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			of course, they wouldn't allow these enslaved Muslim
		
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			scholars from what's now Indonesia
		
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			to take books with them,
		
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			but they had them up here.
		
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			So the Quran made the transition to the
		
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			the the slave colony of Cape province and
		
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			once they got out of the sight of
		
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			the white man, they just wrote it all
		
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			out
		
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			again. Islam travels quite well under difficult
		
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			circumstances.
		
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			So, yep, the
		
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			the the spiritual
		
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			ancestry of the South African Cape province Muslims,
		
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			they still called Cape Malays.
		
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			Amazing people. So the Dutch,
		
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			actually,
		
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			paradoxically,
		
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			unintentionally helped the spread of Islam by pushing
		
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			the olema out of the major cities,
		
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			which is where the Dutch want to trade
		
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			with cloves and spices and the things that
		
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			they're there for, and into more remote areas.
		
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			And it's because of that outward push that
		
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			Islam starts to succeed in in the hinterlands
		
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			and the outlying
		
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			islands.
		
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			Our story today, which will be about,
		
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			one particular,
		
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			probably the most distinguished influential
		
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			Indonesian
		
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			Javanese
		
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			Muslim scholar of the 20th century, Abdurrahman Wahid,
		
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			known popularly as Gostur,
		
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			who died only about 14 years ago, 2009,
		
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			I think it was. So kind of very
		
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			much part of our history,
		
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			is the
		
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			impact of colonialism,
		
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			the humiliation of the white man with his
		
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			fly whisk being carried by the local population
		
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			in his sedan chair through the,
		
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			former capital cities of of the proud
		
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			Muslim land of of Java and how Islam
		
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			was going
		
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			to relate to this
		
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			unexpected defeat by these people who came from
		
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			such a remote place.
		
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			Holland, they never heard of before and suddenly
		
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			they're in charge of this spice rich,
		
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			clove rich archipelago,
		
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			really begins in the the 19th century and
		
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			particularly in the city of Mecca.
		
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			During the Ottoman period, Makkah was one of
		
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			the great centers for intellectual exchange in the
		
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			Islamic world. There were districts of Fulani,
		
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			districts of Javanese,
		
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			districts of Russians. It was a very cosmopolitan
		
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			place and they all had their sheikhs who
		
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			would have a particular column in the Haram
		
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			mosque and would teach. It was like a
		
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			university
		
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			and because people would like to get to
		
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			Hajj early,
		
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			it could take 6 months to walk there
		
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			from Nigeria.
		
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			You wanted to get there early, and what
		
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			you did while you were waiting was you
		
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			attended classes.
		
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			So the whole Haram in Makkah was like
		
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			university in different languages
		
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			and buzzing. And the great figure
		
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			for our story, somebody called, Ahmed Khatib,
		
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			Minangkabawi,
		
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			late 19th century,
		
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			the great Javanese master
		
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			from the Minangkabau
		
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			regional ethnic
		
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			group.
		
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			And he was the one who really, talking
		
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			to the the Javanese Hajjis,
		
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			raised an awareness of the need to resist
		
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			colonialism
		
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			using an Islamic discourse.
		
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			Because some elements of Javanese society, particularly a
		
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			group called the Priyayi, who are the,
		
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			the the former kind of courtly classes
		
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			in these very complex
		
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			the Kraton is a palace complex,
		
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			in in traditional Java with thousands of courtiers
		
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			and employees. And if you go to the
		
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			Kraton today in Yogyakarta,
		
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			you can see some of the ceremonial,
		
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			little old ladies in their ceremonial outfit in
		
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			long procession
		
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			carrying the Sultan's tea,
		
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			walking in a particular way, it's very Indic
		
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			and very beautiful in fact, but that class
		
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			tended to be the local class that the
		
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			Dutch wanted to use in order to create
		
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			sort of bureaucrats and administrators, and,
		
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			they didn't seem to be,
		
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			the most likely basis for some sort of
		
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			anti colonial
		
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			resistance.
		
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			Now,
		
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			Sheikh Ahmed Khatib had 2 great disciples,
		
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			Ahmed Dahlan
		
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			and Sheikh Hashim Ash Ali.
		
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			And these two individuals
		
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			go on to found the movements which are
		
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			the most active scholarly
		
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			activist cultural movements in Indonesia today.
		
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			So Sheikh Ahmed Dahlen founded a group called
		
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			the Muhammadiyah,
		
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			which nowadays might have 25,000,000,
		
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			30,000,000 members all over Indonesia,
		
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			which has the reputation of being a somewhat
		
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			kind of modernist, Ahmed,
		
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			Mohammed Abrador,
		
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			Ahmed Amin,
		
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			rationalizing
		
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			contemporary interpretation
		
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			of the religion. And then the other movement,
		
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			which was founded
		
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			by, Sheikh Hashem Ashari,
		
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			in the year 1926
		
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			is called the Nata del Olama,
		
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			which is basically Ghazalian. You could say the
		
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			Ikhya Ulamadin is historically its manifesto for how
		
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			Islam
		
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			ought to be
		
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			and very Junadian
		
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			in its,
		
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			tasawaf.
		
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			And today, the Naqat ul ul ulama might
		
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			have maybe
		
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			50,000,000
		
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			followers,
		
00:12:22 --> 00:12:24
			which makes it the largest organization in the
		
00:12:24 --> 00:12:27
			whole Islamic world. It's kind of everywhere with
		
00:12:27 --> 00:12:30
			little schools and dental clinics and orphanages and
		
00:12:30 --> 00:12:34
			in all parts of Indonesia, including Papua and
		
00:12:34 --> 00:12:35
			pretty remote places,
		
00:12:36 --> 00:12:37
			they are
		
00:12:37 --> 00:12:39
			active. And we'll talk about the dynamics of
		
00:12:39 --> 00:12:42
			the relationship between these two sorts of followings
		
00:12:42 --> 00:12:45
			of Sheikh Ahmed Khotayib and his little Meccan
		
00:12:45 --> 00:12:47
			circle as we go through this,
		
00:12:48 --> 00:12:51
			this discussion. And there's lots of other groups,
		
00:12:51 --> 00:12:52
			particularly smaller
		
00:12:52 --> 00:12:56
			outright Salafi groups influenced by the Saudi interpretation
		
00:12:56 --> 00:12:58
			of the the beliefs of Mohammed bin Abdul
		
00:12:58 --> 00:12:59
			Wahab.
		
00:13:00 --> 00:13:03
			It's probably the case that this kind of
		
00:13:03 --> 00:13:05
			tension between these 3 major
		
00:13:06 --> 00:13:06
			tendencies
		
00:13:07 --> 00:13:09
			made a lot of
		
00:13:09 --> 00:13:10
			Indonesians
		
00:13:10 --> 00:13:13
			who were thinking about national resistance
		
00:13:14 --> 00:13:15
			a little bit doubtful about the extent to
		
00:13:15 --> 00:13:19
			which Islam could really unify the Indonesian people
		
00:13:19 --> 00:13:22
			and provide a a doctrinal basis for,
		
00:13:22 --> 00:13:24
			resistance to the occupation.
		
00:13:24 --> 00:13:28
			That's one reason why early Indonesian nationalism tends
		
00:13:28 --> 00:13:29
			to be, well, just nationalistic,
		
00:13:30 --> 00:13:32
			secular, and also one reason why communism
		
00:13:33 --> 00:13:36
			starts to appear, perhaps, unexpectedly in this intensely
		
00:13:36 --> 00:13:40
			Islamic area. Generally, communism doesn't get much traction
		
00:13:40 --> 00:13:42
			in most parts of the Islamic world for
		
00:13:42 --> 00:13:44
			obvious reasons. Indonesia, there's a powerful
		
00:13:45 --> 00:13:47
			Communist Party, the suppression of which becomes one
		
00:13:47 --> 00:13:49
			of the the big traumas,
		
00:13:50 --> 00:13:50
			for the country.
		
00:13:54 --> 00:13:58
			During the the 20th century, you have,
		
00:14:00 --> 00:14:02
			an outpouring of new scholarship.
		
00:14:03 --> 00:14:05
			It's a very scholarly kind of country.
		
00:14:07 --> 00:14:09
			You have the idea of the Pessantren.
		
00:14:09 --> 00:14:11
			Pesantren is this particular
		
00:14:11 --> 00:14:13
			Islamic form of
		
00:14:13 --> 00:14:14
			usually
		
00:14:14 --> 00:14:16
			small town or rural
		
00:14:16 --> 00:14:17
			Islamic college
		
00:14:18 --> 00:14:19
			that isn't for them the same thing as
		
00:14:19 --> 00:14:21
			a madrasa because a pasindren is a kind
		
00:14:21 --> 00:14:22
			of boarding school.
		
00:14:23 --> 00:14:25
			They might have a madrasa inside it, generally
		
00:14:25 --> 00:14:26
			in the Indonesian
		
00:14:26 --> 00:14:29
			sort of usage, madrassa is for dayboys,
		
00:14:30 --> 00:14:32
			whereas the pasuntran is where you actually go
		
00:14:32 --> 00:14:32
			to live.
		
00:14:33 --> 00:14:34
			It's
		
00:14:34 --> 00:14:36
			like a rather warm and uncomfortable
		
00:14:37 --> 00:14:38
			English public school, perhaps,
		
00:14:39 --> 00:14:41
			but very much scholarly oriented.
		
00:14:42 --> 00:14:43
			And
		
00:14:43 --> 00:14:44
			typically,
		
00:14:44 --> 00:14:45
			the peasantry
		
00:14:46 --> 00:14:49
			and boys will be working in the fields
		
00:14:49 --> 00:14:52
			and actually making themselves useful, almost like medieval
		
00:14:52 --> 00:14:53
			monasteries in in the UK. And you can
		
00:14:53 --> 00:14:55
			see that there's maybe a 100,000 of these
		
00:14:55 --> 00:14:58
			peasantrans all over Indonesia. You can still see
		
00:14:58 --> 00:14:59
			that that way of,
		
00:15:00 --> 00:15:03
			creating a self sufficient Islamic academic and spiritual
		
00:15:03 --> 00:15:04
			community. They're very
		
00:15:05 --> 00:15:07
			under the direction of the senior scholar, the
		
00:15:07 --> 00:15:10
			kiai. Kiai is the traditional Indonesian word for
		
00:15:10 --> 00:15:11
			for an alim.
		
00:15:12 --> 00:15:13
			They,
		
00:15:14 --> 00:15:17
			usually attach to to a tariqa, and there's
		
00:15:17 --> 00:15:19
			a lot of wazifas, avkar,
		
00:15:19 --> 00:15:20
			as well as the regular
		
00:15:21 --> 00:15:24
			glasses. So 2 big tafsirs come out, tafsir
		
00:15:24 --> 00:15:26
			al Azhar from Abdul Malik Amroulal, which is
		
00:15:26 --> 00:15:27
			the first
		
00:15:27 --> 00:15:28
			4 Indonesian
		
00:15:29 --> 00:15:30
			tafsir, which is a bit closer to the
		
00:15:30 --> 00:15:31
			Nader al Ulamah
		
00:15:32 --> 00:15:32
			perspective,
		
00:15:33 --> 00:15:33
			interpreting
		
00:15:34 --> 00:15:37
			Islam through Ahmed Khatrib and the Minan Kaba
		
00:15:37 --> 00:15:38
			local,
		
00:15:38 --> 00:15:39
			tradition.
		
00:15:39 --> 00:15:42
			And then Qari Shehab produces the Tafsir al
		
00:15:42 --> 00:15:44
			Mishbaach, which is a bit more intellectual,
		
00:15:44 --> 00:15:46
			relates to more abstract philosophical
		
00:15:47 --> 00:15:47
			concerns.
		
00:15:48 --> 00:15:51
			And you also have freelance individuals,
		
00:15:52 --> 00:15:54
			one of the best known of whom in
		
00:15:54 --> 00:15:56
			the 20th century was somebody called Harun Nasutian,
		
00:15:57 --> 00:15:59
			who, tried to revise
		
00:15:59 --> 00:16:01
			revive the tradition of Moctezilism.
		
00:16:03 --> 00:16:05
			Not a kind of exact Baghdad, Moctezilism, but
		
00:16:06 --> 00:16:09
			his understanding of the backwardness of Islam was
		
00:16:09 --> 00:16:11
			not the Salafi understanding, that it's because we've
		
00:16:11 --> 00:16:14
			got away from the sources, but rather that
		
00:16:14 --> 00:16:16
			we've got away from reason and Europe is
		
00:16:16 --> 00:16:18
			based on reason, and we need to rediscover
		
00:16:18 --> 00:16:20
			the rationality of our religion if we're ever
		
00:16:20 --> 00:16:22
			going to catch up with with the white
		
00:16:22 --> 00:16:25
			man. So Harun Nasution, who becomes head of
		
00:16:25 --> 00:16:28
			one of the major Islamic universities, is also,
		
00:16:28 --> 00:16:29
			a very significant
		
00:16:30 --> 00:16:32
			figure in this this complicated
		
00:16:32 --> 00:16:33
			story.
		
00:16:34 --> 00:16:36
			The backdrop in Java is,
		
00:16:36 --> 00:16:37
			again, radically
		
00:16:38 --> 00:16:40
			disparate levels of religiosity,
		
00:16:40 --> 00:16:42
			which which goes on to shape
		
00:16:43 --> 00:16:44
			scholarly activity,
		
00:16:44 --> 00:16:46
			and also the politics.
		
00:16:46 --> 00:16:48
			Most of the population, especially away from the
		
00:16:48 --> 00:16:50
			major cities, are what used to be called
		
00:16:50 --> 00:16:51
			Abangan,
		
00:16:51 --> 00:16:54
			which is people who are nominally Muslim but
		
00:16:54 --> 00:16:56
			may well form follow a kind of syncretistic,
		
00:16:57 --> 00:16:58
			apparently shamanistic,
		
00:17:02 --> 00:17:05
			hybrid of Islamic terminology with ancient Javanese
		
00:17:05 --> 00:17:06
			mythology.
		
00:17:08 --> 00:17:09
			And very often,
		
00:17:11 --> 00:17:14
			communist groups and secular groups in the 20th
		
00:17:14 --> 00:17:15
			century came out of those Abangan,
		
00:17:16 --> 00:17:17
			nominally Muslim,
		
00:17:17 --> 00:17:20
			communities who were intentioned with the other main
		
00:17:20 --> 00:17:22
			group, which is called santri. I'm giving you
		
00:17:22 --> 00:17:24
			the terminology because we're going to be using
		
00:17:24 --> 00:17:26
			some of the jargon to make sense of
		
00:17:26 --> 00:17:28
			the ghost story today.
		
00:17:28 --> 00:17:31
			Santri are the kind of 5 daily prayers,
		
00:17:31 --> 00:17:32
			normative
		
00:17:32 --> 00:17:33
			Sharia
		
00:17:33 --> 00:17:35
			observant Muslim minority.
		
00:17:36 --> 00:17:38
			Maybe even in the mid 20th century, only
		
00:17:38 --> 00:17:41
			10% of the Javanese population is actually
		
00:17:42 --> 00:17:42
			going to mosques
		
00:17:43 --> 00:17:45
			and, much of the population is still
		
00:17:46 --> 00:17:47
			imperfectly Islamized.
		
00:17:49 --> 00:17:50
			And then as well as this, you have
		
00:17:50 --> 00:17:53
			the priayi class, which we mentioned, which is
		
00:17:53 --> 00:17:55
			the the class associated with the traditional klaton
		
00:17:55 --> 00:17:59
			or court culture, very often bound up with
		
00:17:59 --> 00:18:02
			the, bureaucracy of Dutch colonial administration.
		
00:18:04 --> 00:18:06
			So it's into this complicated world,
		
00:18:06 --> 00:18:08
			a diverse Islam,
		
00:18:08 --> 00:18:11
			influence is coming from the Javanese presence in
		
00:18:11 --> 00:18:12
			the Middle East,
		
00:18:13 --> 00:18:16
			arguments about should we be fundamentalists or rationalists,
		
00:18:18 --> 00:18:19
			the reality of
		
00:18:22 --> 00:18:23
			Dutch occupation,
		
00:18:24 --> 00:18:27
			that today's hero is born in 1940,
		
00:18:30 --> 00:18:31
			in East Java.
		
00:18:32 --> 00:18:34
			East Java is the poorest part of,
		
00:18:35 --> 00:18:37
			the island of Java,
		
00:18:38 --> 00:18:40
			kind of the heartland of the Natatul Olamah,
		
00:18:40 --> 00:18:41
			very traditionalist,
		
00:18:42 --> 00:18:42
			not modernist,
		
00:18:43 --> 00:18:45
			not rationalizing. And he's born in a pasandaran.
		
00:18:47 --> 00:18:49
			That's his world. And this is Abdul Rahman
		
00:18:49 --> 00:18:51
			Wahid, who is actually the grandson
		
00:18:52 --> 00:18:54
			of the sheikh who we met earlier, Hashim
		
00:18:54 --> 00:18:56
			Ashari, who you'll recall in the 1890s is
		
00:18:56 --> 00:18:59
			studying in Mecca with Ahmed Khatri and who
		
00:18:59 --> 00:19:01
			is the founder of the Natatul Ullama. So
		
00:19:01 --> 00:19:03
			he's kind of from this dynasty.
		
00:19:04 --> 00:19:05
			And because
		
00:19:05 --> 00:19:08
			family connections are very important in Indonesian society,
		
00:19:08 --> 00:19:10
			this helps to add to his
		
00:19:10 --> 00:19:13
			sort of possibility and credibility later on. And
		
00:19:13 --> 00:19:15
			that family is said to have been descendants
		
00:19:15 --> 00:19:16
			of of one of the last Hindu kings
		
00:19:16 --> 00:19:17
			of Majapahit,
		
00:19:18 --> 00:19:18
			that they have
		
00:19:19 --> 00:19:20
			a genealogy.
		
00:19:23 --> 00:19:24
			So,
		
00:19:26 --> 00:19:28
			this peasantry was opened by,
		
00:19:29 --> 00:19:30
			Sheikh Ashari
		
00:19:31 --> 00:19:33
			after his 7 years of studying in Makkou,
		
00:19:33 --> 00:19:36
			Sheikh Ahmed Khattari. He opens the pesantrin 18/99.
		
00:19:37 --> 00:19:40
			And characteristically, he chooses for the location
		
00:19:40 --> 00:19:41
			the red light district.
		
00:19:42 --> 00:19:45
			It's a characteristic of the Pesandaran culture.
		
00:19:46 --> 00:19:49
			You put this nexus of Islamic
		
00:19:50 --> 00:19:51
			therapy and rightness
		
00:19:52 --> 00:19:53
			where it's most needed
		
00:19:53 --> 00:19:55
			in order to clean up the neighborhood, in
		
00:19:55 --> 00:19:57
			order to, if you like, shame the ladies
		
00:19:57 --> 00:19:58
			of the night into
		
00:19:59 --> 00:20:00
			mending their ways
		
00:20:01 --> 00:20:03
			and the gentlemen who come to visit them
		
00:20:03 --> 00:20:05
			and the drinkers and the opium dens.
		
00:20:06 --> 00:20:07
			That's where you put
		
00:20:08 --> 00:20:09
			religion. Now
		
00:20:10 --> 00:20:12
			he is unusual in that he
		
00:20:13 --> 00:20:16
			introduces modern languages and some modern subjects into
		
00:20:16 --> 00:20:17
			the Pessantin
		
00:20:17 --> 00:20:18
			curriculum
		
00:20:20 --> 00:20:22
			and is also an outspoken
		
00:20:22 --> 00:20:25
			campaigner against the Dutch occupation.
		
00:20:26 --> 00:20:28
			So by bringing these things together,
		
00:20:28 --> 00:20:30
			concern for the poor and social welfare,
		
00:20:31 --> 00:20:33
			opposition to colonialism,
		
00:20:33 --> 00:20:37
			and openness to learning about the Western world
		
00:20:37 --> 00:20:39
			and learning Dutch, learning English, learning about modern
		
00:20:39 --> 00:20:40
			sciences and so forth.
		
00:20:41 --> 00:20:42
			He becomes
		
00:20:42 --> 00:20:44
			really the key figure of his time, Hadrut
		
00:20:44 --> 00:20:46
			e Sheik. They still call him that in
		
00:20:46 --> 00:20:47
			Indonesia.
		
00:20:48 --> 00:20:51
			So his son is Owahid Heshim, who also
		
00:20:51 --> 00:20:54
			is born, grows up in the peasantra and
		
00:20:54 --> 00:20:56
			marries Gostur's mother, Saleha.
		
00:20:58 --> 00:20:59
			And
		
00:20:59 --> 00:21:01
			Gusteau is born there, and they name their
		
00:21:01 --> 00:21:02
			son.
		
00:21:03 --> 00:21:05
			They've had 4 daughters, and then the son
		
00:21:05 --> 00:21:06
			comes along,
		
00:21:07 --> 00:21:08
			Abdulrahman ad Daghil.
		
00:21:10 --> 00:21:12
			That's actually his name. Abdulrahman Warhid is Abdulrahman
		
00:21:12 --> 00:21:13
			ad Daghil
		
00:21:14 --> 00:21:17
			after, of course, the famous Umayyad prince who
		
00:21:17 --> 00:21:18
			after many adventures
		
00:21:19 --> 00:21:21
			enters Daghil. Al Andalus
		
00:21:21 --> 00:21:24
			founds the great Umayyad caliphid of southern Spain,
		
00:21:24 --> 00:21:26
			inspirational figure
		
00:21:26 --> 00:21:27
			in Muslim history.
		
00:21:29 --> 00:21:32
			And then suddenly, unexpectedly, the Dutch are booted
		
00:21:32 --> 00:21:34
			out by the Japanese.
		
00:21:35 --> 00:21:37
			Everybody has to bow to the symbol of
		
00:21:37 --> 00:21:40
			the rising sun. This is an issue for
		
00:21:40 --> 00:21:42
			the Qalamat. The Japanese create a new organization
		
00:21:42 --> 00:21:44
			to control Islam, Shumomo,
		
00:21:45 --> 00:21:47
			which tries to encourage the Muslims to worship
		
00:21:47 --> 00:21:48
			the emperor.
		
00:21:49 --> 00:21:50
			Doesn't go down too well.
		
00:21:51 --> 00:21:52
			Riots, difficulty,
		
00:21:52 --> 00:21:53
			and they're trying to get
		
00:21:54 --> 00:21:55
			the Muslims
		
00:21:56 --> 00:21:59
			who haven't enjoyed Western colonialism too much to
		
00:21:59 --> 00:22:01
			sign up to the Japanese Greater East Asian
		
00:22:02 --> 00:22:04
			co prosperity sphere. So they stop
		
00:22:04 --> 00:22:06
			knocking them on the head for not bowing
		
00:22:06 --> 00:22:07
			to the flag
		
00:22:08 --> 00:22:10
			and figure out ways of co opting them.
		
00:22:10 --> 00:22:11
			Waheed Hirshim is appointed
		
00:22:12 --> 00:22:13
			to lead it.
		
00:22:14 --> 00:22:17
			Difficult decision for him. The Japanese are not
		
00:22:17 --> 00:22:18
			easy occupiers.
		
00:22:21 --> 00:22:23
			But he he decides that this is an
		
00:22:23 --> 00:22:23
			opportunity
		
00:22:24 --> 00:22:25
			to try and build something new
		
00:22:26 --> 00:22:29
			and to consolidate nationalism, which the Dutch had
		
00:22:30 --> 00:22:30
			suppressed
		
00:22:31 --> 00:22:32
			quite brutally.
		
00:22:33 --> 00:22:34
			August 1945,
		
00:22:36 --> 00:22:38
			2nd World War ends. Hiroshima and Nagasaki,
		
00:22:39 --> 00:22:41
			the Japanese are still in Indonesia. It's not
		
00:22:41 --> 00:22:43
			invaded by the Americans or the Australians like
		
00:22:43 --> 00:22:44
			Manila or
		
00:22:45 --> 00:22:46
			New Britain.
		
00:22:48 --> 00:22:49
			The Japanese
		
00:22:50 --> 00:22:53
			hand over their arms to the Indonesian nationalists.
		
00:22:55 --> 00:22:57
			The Dutch pop up again saying, well, we
		
00:22:57 --> 00:22:59
			want our farms and our factories and
		
00:23:00 --> 00:23:02
			our mission stations and our comfortable
		
00:23:03 --> 00:23:04
			colonial
		
00:23:04 --> 00:23:05
			mansions. The Indonesians
		
00:23:06 --> 00:23:07
			say, well,
		
00:23:08 --> 00:23:09
			not so fast.
		
00:23:10 --> 00:23:12
			And there's a kind of chaos
		
00:23:13 --> 00:23:15
			and the British intervene in order to support
		
00:23:15 --> 00:23:17
			the reestablishment of Dutch colonialism.
		
00:23:18 --> 00:23:21
			And there's the famous or notorious Battle of
		
00:23:21 --> 00:23:21
			Surabaya,
		
00:23:22 --> 00:23:25
			where the British bring in the rajah still
		
00:23:25 --> 00:23:26
			going Indian troops.
		
00:23:27 --> 00:23:30
			And the Natadul Ullama and the Muhammadir declared
		
00:23:30 --> 00:23:31
			jihad
		
00:23:31 --> 00:23:33
			against the British and the Dutch
		
00:23:33 --> 00:23:36
			the British basically by flattening the city with
		
00:23:36 --> 00:23:37
			the RAF
		
00:23:37 --> 00:23:39
			drive. The
		
00:23:41 --> 00:23:42
			putative
		
00:23:42 --> 00:23:45
			nationalist army from the city, but it's been
		
00:23:45 --> 00:23:46
			so difficult.
		
00:23:47 --> 00:23:48
			They decide,
		
00:23:48 --> 00:23:50
			well, the nationalists are going to win sooner
		
00:23:50 --> 00:23:51
			or later. The Indonesians
		
00:23:52 --> 00:23:55
			don't like the idea of the Dutchmen coming
		
00:23:55 --> 00:23:57
			back, and it's fairly clear that Dutch rule
		
00:23:57 --> 00:23:58
			is
		
00:23:58 --> 00:23:59
			going to be a thing of the past.
		
00:23:59 --> 00:24:02
			There'll be some kind of transition. The British
		
00:24:02 --> 00:24:04
			were getting ready for that in India already.
		
00:24:06 --> 00:24:08
			So that's there's there's a
		
00:24:08 --> 00:24:10
			a series of kind of national legends in
		
00:24:10 --> 00:24:13
			Indonesia about the role of the olema in
		
00:24:13 --> 00:24:15
			resisting the British and the Dutch. Talked to
		
00:24:15 --> 00:24:16
			somebody from the Disney Corporation.
		
00:24:18 --> 00:24:21
			And they're actually considering a script for a
		
00:24:21 --> 00:24:22
			cartoon feature
		
00:24:23 --> 00:24:25
			about a famous teenage boy called Moussa, who
		
00:24:25 --> 00:24:27
			is a hero of the resistance.
		
00:24:28 --> 00:24:28
			Of course,
		
00:24:30 --> 00:24:32
			how well will that play in a kind
		
00:24:32 --> 00:24:33
			of American multiplex?
		
00:24:34 --> 00:24:36
			The brown Muslim boy in a turban called
		
00:24:36 --> 00:24:38
			Morsart a hero against the white man
		
00:24:39 --> 00:24:40
			and issues that
		
00:24:41 --> 00:24:42
			I don't know if they'll do it, but
		
00:24:42 --> 00:24:44
			it's a big kind of imaginative moment for
		
00:24:44 --> 00:24:47
			the beginning of the independent Indonesian
		
00:24:48 --> 00:24:48
			nation.
		
00:24:49 --> 00:24:50
			So the family
		
00:24:51 --> 00:24:54
			go back to East Java. They're in hiding.
		
00:24:55 --> 00:24:58
			The Dutch might well attack them. The communists,
		
00:24:58 --> 00:25:01
			who are now rampant, might attack them.
		
00:25:01 --> 00:25:04
			Gustol's mother, Saleha, to earn some money as
		
00:25:04 --> 00:25:04
			you're selling
		
00:25:05 --> 00:25:07
			sweets from a trolley by the roadside. They've
		
00:25:07 --> 00:25:09
			got an old gun in the house in
		
00:25:09 --> 00:25:10
			case the Dutch police come.
		
00:25:12 --> 00:25:14
			But then independence arrives, and then everybody has
		
00:25:14 --> 00:25:18
			to join the sudden national conversation about what
		
00:25:18 --> 00:25:20
			kind of ideology will be governing the world's
		
00:25:20 --> 00:25:21
			largest,
		
00:25:22 --> 00:25:22
			newest
		
00:25:23 --> 00:25:24
			Muslim country.
		
00:25:25 --> 00:25:26
			The centuries
		
00:25:27 --> 00:25:29
			think Islam should be the basis of the
		
00:25:29 --> 00:25:29
			constitution.
		
00:25:30 --> 00:25:31
			The minorities
		
00:25:31 --> 00:25:34
			say definitely not. Wahid Hashim and many of
		
00:25:34 --> 00:25:35
			the traditionalists,
		
00:25:35 --> 00:25:36
			Natatul Olama,
		
00:25:38 --> 00:25:38
			Olomah,
		
00:25:39 --> 00:25:41
			don't like the idea of a kind of
		
00:25:41 --> 00:25:43
			Islamic religious state,
		
00:25:44 --> 00:25:47
			and we'll return to this apparent paradox in
		
00:25:47 --> 00:25:50
			due course. The new nationalist government run by
		
00:25:50 --> 00:25:51
			Sokarno,
		
00:25:52 --> 00:25:54
			first president of independent Indonesia,
		
00:25:55 --> 00:25:56
			who is kind of left leaning,
		
00:25:57 --> 00:26:00
			which as we'll see causes issues for the
		
00:26:00 --> 00:26:00
			Americans,
		
00:26:01 --> 00:26:04
			hatches this idea called pancasila, which still the
		
00:26:04 --> 00:26:07
			official ideology of the Indonesian state, which is
		
00:26:07 --> 00:26:09
			the idea that it's not a secular state,
		
00:26:10 --> 00:26:12
			but it's not an Islamic state either.
		
00:26:14 --> 00:26:15
			It's based on,
		
00:26:15 --> 00:26:18
			the idea of the one God
		
00:26:18 --> 00:26:21
			and the values the values of the nation
		
00:26:21 --> 00:26:23
			stemming from the one God, but Islam is
		
00:26:23 --> 00:26:24
			not specifically
		
00:26:24 --> 00:26:27
			mentioned. This becomes for decades a big a
		
00:26:27 --> 00:26:30
			big argument in the country. 90% Muslim, why
		
00:26:30 --> 00:26:31
			can't you
		
00:26:31 --> 00:26:34
			have Islam and the constitution just as Holland
		
00:26:34 --> 00:26:36
			has a Christian constitution, Britain has a Christian
		
00:26:36 --> 00:26:38
			constitution, why can't Muslims have the same? You
		
00:26:38 --> 00:26:40
			can see how that argument would go.
		
00:26:42 --> 00:26:45
			After independence, Wahid Heshim, Gustor's father, becomes the
		
00:26:45 --> 00:26:47
			1st minister of religious
		
00:26:48 --> 00:26:49
			affairs. So he moves to Jakarta
		
00:26:50 --> 00:26:52
			from Jombang, which is their town in East
		
00:26:53 --> 00:26:53
			Java,
		
00:26:55 --> 00:26:56
			where he
		
00:26:56 --> 00:26:58
			moves in a more cosmopolitan
		
00:26:59 --> 00:27:01
			circle. Interestingly, one of his supporters is a
		
00:27:01 --> 00:27:04
			German convert to Islam, certainly Iskander Buller,
		
00:27:04 --> 00:27:07
			who, introduces him to Beethoven.
		
00:27:08 --> 00:27:11
			Throughout Gostura's life, he liked listening to to
		
00:27:11 --> 00:27:11
			Beethoven.
		
00:27:13 --> 00:27:13
			So
		
00:27:14 --> 00:27:17
			Abdurrahman Wahid, our hero, is growing up
		
00:27:17 --> 00:27:19
			known as a naughty boy.
		
00:27:20 --> 00:27:22
			Twice he breaks his arm climbing trees.
		
00:27:22 --> 00:27:24
			Sometimes his family have to tie him to
		
00:27:24 --> 00:27:26
			a post in the garden to stop him
		
00:27:26 --> 00:27:26
			doing
		
00:27:26 --> 00:27:27
			naughty stuff.
		
00:27:28 --> 00:27:29
			He doesn't want to go to an elite
		
00:27:29 --> 00:27:30
			school
		
00:27:30 --> 00:27:33
			or missionary school or religious school, he just
		
00:27:33 --> 00:27:34
			goes to an ordinary school,
		
00:27:36 --> 00:27:38
			partly because his father wanted his children to
		
00:27:38 --> 00:27:39
			grow up in a cosmopolitan
		
00:27:40 --> 00:27:42
			way. He wanted them to understand the modern
		
00:27:42 --> 00:27:44
			world rather than just to be sheltered in
		
00:27:44 --> 00:27:46
			Indonesian equivalent of a darul olong,
		
00:27:47 --> 00:27:48
			and used to take his son to meetings,
		
00:27:48 --> 00:27:51
			political meetings, whatever. He'd go in the car.
		
00:27:52 --> 00:27:54
			When he was 12, the car crashes, his
		
00:27:54 --> 00:27:55
			father dies.
		
00:27:56 --> 00:27:59
			So he's in the house with his
		
00:27:59 --> 00:28:02
			4 older sisters and his mother, who is
		
00:28:02 --> 00:28:04
			pregnant with the 6th child,
		
00:28:05 --> 00:28:07
			and she turns out to be pretty strong
		
00:28:07 --> 00:28:10
			and resilient in this situation. It's a poor
		
00:28:10 --> 00:28:11
			country and,
		
00:28:12 --> 00:28:13
			they no longer have an income,
		
00:28:15 --> 00:28:17
			and so she starts a rice business and
		
00:28:17 --> 00:28:19
			and supports them with that. And these kind
		
00:28:19 --> 00:28:21
			of resilient women
		
00:28:22 --> 00:28:26
			become quite a theme in Abdulrahman Waheed's life.
		
00:28:26 --> 00:28:27
			So he's at school,
		
00:28:28 --> 00:28:30
			if he's not climbing trees or doing sport.
		
00:28:30 --> 00:28:33
			He's not doing very well in school, but
		
00:28:33 --> 00:28:34
			he loves books.
		
00:28:34 --> 00:28:37
			Jakarta full of secondhand bookshops.
		
00:28:37 --> 00:28:40
			He speaks Dutch and English well. He's learning
		
00:28:40 --> 00:28:40
			Arabic.
		
00:28:41 --> 00:28:44
			And then after having not done terribly well
		
00:28:44 --> 00:28:45
			in the state school,
		
00:28:46 --> 00:28:48
			joins a Pessan Turen and moves through the
		
00:28:48 --> 00:28:50
			curriculum and does it really quickly.
		
00:28:51 --> 00:28:52
			It seems that he had a kind of
		
00:28:52 --> 00:28:54
			photographic memory which is ideal for that kind
		
00:28:54 --> 00:28:55
			of education.
		
00:28:57 --> 00:28:59
			But also is clearly a devout teenager.
		
00:29:01 --> 00:29:03
			He wants to memorize quite a long Arabic
		
00:29:04 --> 00:29:06
			matin or text on Nahu grammar.
		
00:29:07 --> 00:29:10
			And to facilitate this, he makes a vow.
		
00:29:10 --> 00:29:12
			He will go on foot to some of
		
00:29:12 --> 00:29:15
			the best known saints' shrines in Central Java,
		
00:29:15 --> 00:29:16
			including some on the remote south coast
		
00:29:17 --> 00:29:18
			at a 100 mile journey,
		
00:29:19 --> 00:29:22
			in order to strengthen himself spiritually,
		
00:29:22 --> 00:29:24
			to accomplish this.
		
00:29:24 --> 00:29:25
			So he does this,
		
00:29:26 --> 00:29:29
			and it was the tradition for Pasantaran students
		
00:29:29 --> 00:29:31
			in the middle of the night usually to
		
00:29:31 --> 00:29:33
			go to a shrine and kind of reflect
		
00:29:33 --> 00:29:36
			on death and and absorbing the spiritual
		
00:29:36 --> 00:29:37
			blessings of the place,
		
00:29:38 --> 00:29:40
			returning to class spiritually refreshed
		
00:29:41 --> 00:29:42
			the next day. But he does this walk
		
00:29:42 --> 00:29:44
			and his health is never very good,
		
00:29:45 --> 00:29:46
			but he does it.
		
00:29:47 --> 00:29:48
			Now he also
		
00:29:49 --> 00:29:50
			during the day,
		
00:29:50 --> 00:29:53
			he had tremendous energy levels, goes to the
		
00:29:53 --> 00:29:53
			cinema
		
00:29:54 --> 00:29:55
			almost every day.
		
00:29:56 --> 00:29:56
			So Madrasa
		
00:29:57 --> 00:29:58
			to saints' tombs
		
00:29:58 --> 00:29:59
			to the cinema.
		
00:30:00 --> 00:30:02
			And he also because he's in Yogyakarta at
		
00:30:02 --> 00:30:04
			this time, which is really the Islamic intellectual
		
00:30:05 --> 00:30:06
			center,
		
00:30:08 --> 00:30:10
			that's where the great University of Solon, Cali
		
00:30:10 --> 00:30:11
			Jaga is is located,
		
00:30:12 --> 00:30:14
			which some will say today is along with
		
00:30:14 --> 00:30:16
			the Sharif Hidayatullah University in Jakarta,
		
00:30:16 --> 00:30:18
			the great place for studying
		
00:30:18 --> 00:30:19
			religion in Indonesia.
		
00:30:21 --> 00:30:23
			So he's going to the cinema, he's studying
		
00:30:23 --> 00:30:25
			Sheria, he's going on his pilgrimages,
		
00:30:26 --> 00:30:28
			but he also loves the shadow puppets, which
		
00:30:28 --> 00:30:29
			is the great kind of indigenous
		
00:30:30 --> 00:30:32
			art form of traditional Java.
		
00:30:32 --> 00:30:35
			Again, on our trip, we saw we saw
		
00:30:35 --> 00:30:37
			this that is hugely impressive.
		
00:30:37 --> 00:30:39
			There's a screen,
		
00:30:39 --> 00:30:41
			the Dalang, who's the puppet master, sits behind
		
00:30:41 --> 00:30:43
			and does these complex
		
00:30:43 --> 00:30:44
			Javanese,
		
00:30:45 --> 00:30:47
			puppet stories involving stories often from the pre
		
00:30:47 --> 00:30:49
			Islamic past, the Ramayana,
		
00:30:49 --> 00:30:52
			a great Hindu epic, furnishing many of the
		
00:30:52 --> 00:30:54
			key stories. And because they're ethical
		
00:30:55 --> 00:30:57
			and ironic and sometimes comical, It doesn't matter
		
00:30:57 --> 00:31:00
			that the stories are not of Islamic
		
00:31:00 --> 00:31:01
			origin.
		
00:31:03 --> 00:31:05
			He also really likes kind of kung fu
		
00:31:05 --> 00:31:08
			novels and pulp fiction. So he's, you know,
		
00:31:08 --> 00:31:09
			a teenager, but getting into
		
00:31:10 --> 00:31:12
			his mind is really hungry and capacious. He
		
00:31:12 --> 00:31:14
			reads a lot of European philosophy.
		
00:31:14 --> 00:31:15
			He's an age in which
		
00:31:16 --> 00:31:18
			Marxism is fashionable, so he reads Marx.
		
00:31:19 --> 00:31:21
			He also reads the Islamist
		
00:31:22 --> 00:31:25
			stuff. He reads Hassan al Banna. He reads,
		
00:31:25 --> 00:31:27
			but he records later that he found these
		
00:31:27 --> 00:31:28
			rather
		
00:31:28 --> 00:31:30
			sort of shouty and childish,
		
00:31:31 --> 00:31:33
			just kind of slogans without there being a
		
00:31:33 --> 00:31:35
			real kind of system behind them.
		
00:31:38 --> 00:31:40
			He then goes off to Egypt, this is
		
00:31:40 --> 00:31:41
			November 1963,
		
00:31:42 --> 00:31:44
			to further his studies.
		
00:31:46 --> 00:31:48
			In Egypt, he finds, first of all, a
		
00:31:48 --> 00:31:49
			kind of confirmation
		
00:31:49 --> 00:31:52
			of the nahdat al olamat style of Islam,
		
00:31:53 --> 00:31:55
			respect for local culture and tradition,
		
00:31:56 --> 00:31:56
			syncretism
		
00:31:57 --> 00:31:58
			is just fine,
		
00:31:59 --> 00:31:59
			ziara
		
00:31:59 --> 00:32:01
			visiting the tombs of the saints, which is
		
00:32:02 --> 00:32:03
			what you do in Cairo.
		
00:32:04 --> 00:32:06
			The Muhammadiyah also like going to Cairo because
		
00:32:06 --> 00:32:09
			Muhammad Abdul's legacy is is there, but that's
		
00:32:09 --> 00:32:11
			a kind of different bandwidth in the city's
		
00:32:12 --> 00:32:14
			religious life. But in the 19 sixties, Cairo
		
00:32:14 --> 00:32:16
			is kind of, you know, in its heyday.
		
00:32:18 --> 00:32:21
			Nasser has not managed to smash all of
		
00:32:21 --> 00:32:22
			the city's intellectual life,
		
00:32:24 --> 00:32:24
			and
		
00:32:25 --> 00:32:28
			everything is going on. The Egyptian cinema, the
		
00:32:28 --> 00:32:29
			Egyptian theater.
		
00:32:29 --> 00:32:33
			There's 3 surrealist magazines in Cairo. It's
		
00:32:33 --> 00:32:36
			a great cultural center. The opera house is
		
00:32:38 --> 00:32:39
			one of
		
00:32:40 --> 00:32:42
			the great centers of the city before it's,
		
00:32:43 --> 00:32:47
			mysteriously burned down because apparently, the the accountant
		
00:32:47 --> 00:32:49
			didn't want his books to be audited, and
		
00:32:49 --> 00:32:51
			so he thought, I'll just burn down the
		
00:32:51 --> 00:32:51
			opera house.
		
00:32:52 --> 00:32:55
			Yeah. But, it it's a it was the
		
00:32:55 --> 00:32:57
			intellectual capital of the Islamic world at the
		
00:32:57 --> 00:32:58
			time.
		
00:32:58 --> 00:33:00
			So he went to Al Azhar and they
		
00:33:00 --> 00:33:02
			said, oh, you haven't got a certificate in
		
00:33:02 --> 00:33:03
			Arabic.
		
00:33:03 --> 00:33:05
			We know you studied Taftazani and these advanced
		
00:33:05 --> 00:33:07
			texts, but you're not Arabic, you can't come
		
00:33:07 --> 00:33:09
			to our university. So he has to do
		
00:33:09 --> 00:33:10
			basic remedial Arabic,
		
00:33:11 --> 00:33:12
			sitting in a class with
		
00:33:12 --> 00:33:13
			the
		
00:33:13 --> 00:33:14
			Ruandans and
		
00:33:15 --> 00:33:16
			other Indonesians
		
00:33:16 --> 00:33:18
			younger than himself.
		
00:33:18 --> 00:33:20
			He doesn't need to do that, so he
		
00:33:20 --> 00:33:22
			skips classes and instead he's watching sort of
		
00:33:22 --> 00:33:23
			French cinema and,
		
00:33:24 --> 00:33:27
			doing these things in Cairo and getting into
		
00:33:27 --> 00:33:28
			the intellectual richness
		
00:33:29 --> 00:33:31
			of the city. Of course, when he takes
		
00:33:31 --> 00:33:33
			the Arabic exam, he's head of the class
		
00:33:33 --> 00:33:35
			and goes straight into the Mahad. And, he
		
00:33:35 --> 00:33:38
			actually goes to, I guess, 20 years earlier,
		
00:33:38 --> 00:33:39
			the same
		
00:33:39 --> 00:33:41
			buildings and the same curriculum that I went
		
00:33:41 --> 00:33:44
			through. They saw this guy from Cambridge, Cambridge
		
00:33:44 --> 00:33:45
			Ida,
		
00:33:45 --> 00:33:47
			I hadn't come from one of the institutions
		
00:33:47 --> 00:33:49
			they knew about. And so they said, okay.
		
00:33:49 --> 00:33:50
			You go to the remedial class.
		
00:33:51 --> 00:33:52
			So I was sitting there with these kind
		
00:33:52 --> 00:33:55
			of 12 year old guys from Burundi and
		
00:33:55 --> 00:33:56
			kind of
		
00:33:58 --> 00:34:00
			who, actually, they they were good students.
		
00:34:01 --> 00:34:04
			They have made a lot of of themselves.
		
00:34:05 --> 00:34:07
			There were Indonesians as well. I remember some
		
00:34:07 --> 00:34:08
			Thais.
		
00:34:09 --> 00:34:11
			Students from Thailand and Malaysia
		
00:34:12 --> 00:34:14
			always had a lot of kind of electronic
		
00:34:14 --> 00:34:16
			stuff with them, sort
		
00:34:16 --> 00:34:19
			of cassette players and radios and things, which
		
00:34:19 --> 00:34:21
			was too much for the Al Zahra student
		
00:34:21 --> 00:34:22
			accommodation,
		
00:34:24 --> 00:34:26
			electric circuits. So very often,
		
00:34:28 --> 00:34:30
			the lights would all go out and there'd
		
00:34:30 --> 00:34:32
			be a fight on who, to fix the
		
00:34:32 --> 00:34:32
			fuse.
		
00:34:33 --> 00:34:35
			And, I can tell you some stories about
		
00:34:35 --> 00:34:36
			it. Kinda he must have been in a
		
00:34:36 --> 00:34:38
			world that was a little bit similar, but
		
00:34:38 --> 00:34:40
			to earn an income, he did some translation
		
00:34:40 --> 00:34:42
			work for the Indonesian embassy.
		
00:34:43 --> 00:34:44
			He's from a good family, so he gets
		
00:34:45 --> 00:34:47
			this and he translates. And that but in
		
00:34:47 --> 00:34:49
			that way, he gets to know what's happening
		
00:34:49 --> 00:34:52
			in Jakarta. Telex is coming in. He translates
		
00:34:52 --> 00:34:53
			them. He can do the Arabic, he can
		
00:34:53 --> 00:34:55
			do the English, as well as the
		
00:34:55 --> 00:34:56
			the the Bahasa Indonesian.
		
00:34:59 --> 00:35:00
			And this is a
		
00:35:02 --> 00:35:03
			tense time in Indonesia.
		
00:35:05 --> 00:35:05
			1965,
		
00:35:07 --> 00:35:07
			Sokalarno
		
00:35:08 --> 00:35:10
			is overthrown in a coup
		
00:35:11 --> 00:35:12
			orchestrated by the CIA,
		
00:35:13 --> 00:35:14
			and Sogharto
		
00:35:14 --> 00:35:15
			is put in.
		
00:35:16 --> 00:35:18
			And that's the end of the experiment with
		
00:35:18 --> 00:35:19
			socialism. Of course, the Americans who are fighting
		
00:35:19 --> 00:35:22
			this war in Vietnam are terrified that the
		
00:35:22 --> 00:35:24
			communist thing will extend the domino theory,
		
00:35:25 --> 00:35:26
			and so they bring in Suharto,
		
00:35:28 --> 00:35:30
			and there's a massive witch hunt against communists
		
00:35:30 --> 00:35:32
			and socialists in Indonesia,
		
00:35:33 --> 00:35:35
			and massacres, maybe 3,000,000
		
00:35:35 --> 00:35:37
			people are massacred.
		
00:35:38 --> 00:35:40
			And reading all of these messages,
		
00:35:41 --> 00:35:42
			from Jakarta
		
00:35:42 --> 00:35:43
			to the embassy,
		
00:35:44 --> 00:35:46
			And Rouhman Wahid is kind of traumatized
		
00:35:47 --> 00:35:49
			because some of the people who are carrying
		
00:35:49 --> 00:35:50
			out these massacres,
		
00:35:52 --> 00:35:54
			were actually Netatul olamat youth
		
00:35:55 --> 00:35:57
			because they didn't like the communists and they
		
00:35:57 --> 00:35:59
			were being mobilized in order to get their
		
00:35:59 --> 00:36:00
			own back,
		
00:36:00 --> 00:36:03
			and it wasn't a very good
		
00:36:03 --> 00:36:06
			look or very good moment for this Indonesia's
		
00:36:06 --> 00:36:07
			largest religious
		
00:36:08 --> 00:36:09
			organization, and for the rest of his lives,
		
00:36:09 --> 00:36:10
			he was quite,
		
00:36:11 --> 00:36:13
			sort of, guilty about that. So the embassy
		
00:36:13 --> 00:36:14
			asked him to compile
		
00:36:15 --> 00:36:18
			secret dossier on every Indonesian student in Cairo
		
00:36:19 --> 00:36:21
			or ideally in the Arab world because they
		
00:36:21 --> 00:36:22
			wanted to see who was reading
		
00:36:22 --> 00:36:23
			Engels.
		
00:36:24 --> 00:36:26
			He could see this was what was going
		
00:36:26 --> 00:36:28
			on, and so he wrote the files
		
00:36:28 --> 00:36:31
			in such a way as to exonerate everybody.
		
00:36:31 --> 00:36:34
			Nobody was reading Marx. Nobody was going to
		
00:36:34 --> 00:36:35
			anything with a red flag. They were all
		
00:36:35 --> 00:36:36
			good. Muslims
		
00:36:38 --> 00:36:40
			didn't worry. And so it seems that, none
		
00:36:40 --> 00:36:41
			of the
		
00:36:41 --> 00:36:42
			students
		
00:36:42 --> 00:36:45
			in Iraq, Syria, or Egypt were arrested and
		
00:36:45 --> 00:36:48
			flown home as a result of their political
		
00:36:48 --> 00:36:50
			persuasion. Of course, because he knows Marxism, he's
		
00:36:50 --> 00:36:52
			read the stuff, he can identify what kind
		
00:36:52 --> 00:36:54
			of tendencies are underway.
		
00:36:54 --> 00:36:56
			Cairo is also unstable.
		
00:36:57 --> 00:36:58
			This is the time of the trial of
		
00:36:58 --> 00:37:01
			Seyd But, who Nasr has executed.
		
00:37:04 --> 00:37:06
			'Abdu'l UHman Wahid with his complex deep
		
00:37:07 --> 00:37:08
			peasantron education
		
00:37:09 --> 00:37:11
			and his awareness of Islam's culture of ambiguity
		
00:37:12 --> 00:37:14
			doesn't like Gott's kind of ideological
		
00:37:15 --> 00:37:15
			totalitarian
		
00:37:16 --> 00:37:16
			vision of Islam,
		
00:37:17 --> 00:37:19
			but he doesn't like this execution either. So
		
00:37:20 --> 00:37:22
			with some other students, he stands outside the
		
00:37:22 --> 00:37:24
			prison in Cairo at the time of the
		
00:37:24 --> 00:37:26
			execution and they just pray.
		
00:37:27 --> 00:37:29
			They don't support they don't support Guts, but
		
00:37:29 --> 00:37:31
			they really don't think that the man should
		
00:37:31 --> 00:37:31
			be hanged.
		
00:37:33 --> 00:37:35
			So it's a time for this young student
		
00:37:35 --> 00:37:36
			of ideological
		
00:37:36 --> 00:37:37
			confusion.
		
00:37:38 --> 00:37:39
			He's had this very settled
		
00:37:40 --> 00:37:43
			embedding in the traditional Javanese
		
00:37:43 --> 00:37:43
			world
		
00:37:44 --> 00:37:45
			of century Islam.
		
00:37:46 --> 00:37:48
			The 19 sixties were a time when you
		
00:37:48 --> 00:37:51
			had riots in Paris and communism is on
		
00:37:51 --> 00:37:55
			a roll. Fidel k Gevara, the world is
		
00:37:55 --> 00:37:56
			in ferment.
		
00:37:57 --> 00:37:58
			Where is the truth?
		
00:37:59 --> 00:38:03
			Everything seems kind of breaking down, decadence at
		
00:38:03 --> 00:38:04
			home and abroad, elites
		
00:38:05 --> 00:38:07
			in the Middle East and back home in
		
00:38:07 --> 00:38:07
			Indonesia
		
00:38:08 --> 00:38:10
			pocketing the country's resources.
		
00:38:10 --> 00:38:11
			It's not inspiring,
		
00:38:12 --> 00:38:14
			but he does have a source of relaxation
		
00:38:14 --> 00:38:15
			and relief.
		
00:38:16 --> 00:38:18
			He's embarked on a correspondence,
		
00:38:20 --> 00:38:22
			Rok Ting, you remember writing a letter,
		
00:38:23 --> 00:38:26
			with a female student, as the Pesan Turen,
		
00:38:27 --> 00:38:29
			in Java called Nuria,
		
00:38:30 --> 00:38:32
			and they exchange messages quite erudite.
		
00:38:35 --> 00:38:36
			And then because he's been
		
00:38:37 --> 00:38:39
			hanging out in too many things in Cairo,
		
00:38:39 --> 00:38:42
			he actually fails his Azhar exams.
		
00:38:43 --> 00:38:44
			And he writes to her saying, this has
		
00:38:44 --> 00:38:45
			been a waste of time.
		
00:38:46 --> 00:38:47
			What am I doing here?
		
00:38:48 --> 00:38:50
			I failed. I thought this was easy because
		
00:38:50 --> 00:38:52
			I know these texts, but I failed.
		
00:38:53 --> 00:38:54
			And she writes back saying,
		
00:38:55 --> 00:38:57
			if you have failed in your exams,
		
00:38:57 --> 00:38:59
			perhaps you have passed the test of love.
		
00:39:01 --> 00:39:03
			So he knows what that means. And they
		
00:39:03 --> 00:39:06
			arrange a traditional marriage with a wakil, so
		
00:39:06 --> 00:39:07
			he doesn't go back to Java yet, but
		
00:39:07 --> 00:39:09
			they are married by by proxy.
		
00:39:10 --> 00:39:12
			So he gets a new scholarship. Al Zahra
		
00:39:12 --> 00:39:14
			is not going to renew his support. He
		
00:39:14 --> 00:39:16
			goes to the University of Baghdad,
		
00:39:16 --> 00:39:19
			which is probably the second most interesting diverse
		
00:39:19 --> 00:39:19
			place
		
00:39:20 --> 00:39:21
			in the Arab world at that time.
		
00:39:22 --> 00:39:24
			It's freer than Cairo. There's a lot of
		
00:39:24 --> 00:39:26
			Egyptian exiled academics there.
		
00:39:27 --> 00:39:28
			It's more Westernizing,
		
00:39:28 --> 00:39:29
			more philosophical,
		
00:39:30 --> 00:39:31
			more analytical.
		
00:39:32 --> 00:39:34
			Al Zahra is still based mainly in on
		
00:39:34 --> 00:39:35
			the regurgitation
		
00:39:35 --> 00:39:38
			of texts. At the University of Baghdad, you
		
00:39:38 --> 00:39:39
			have to write essays
		
00:39:39 --> 00:39:40
			and think.
		
00:39:40 --> 00:39:42
			And he likes this.
		
00:39:43 --> 00:39:45
			And also Baghdad's city of shrines,
		
00:39:46 --> 00:39:47
			and Al Junaid
		
00:39:48 --> 00:39:49
			and Salis Sakatry
		
00:39:49 --> 00:39:51
			and Abu Hanifa, everybody's there.
		
00:39:52 --> 00:39:54
			And he spends time there, but also in
		
00:39:54 --> 00:39:55
			cafes on the river.
		
00:39:56 --> 00:39:58
			He strikes up a friendship with the director
		
00:39:58 --> 00:40:01
			of the French Cultural Center, and they talk
		
00:40:01 --> 00:40:02
			a lot about French literature.
		
00:40:03 --> 00:40:06
			He has an Iraqi Jewish friend called Ramin
		
00:40:06 --> 00:40:09
			who introduces him to the Kabbalah and Jewish
		
00:40:09 --> 00:40:11
			mysticism. Baghdad is really
		
00:40:12 --> 00:40:14
			not what it was in the time of
		
00:40:14 --> 00:40:16
			the great Abbasids, but still a cosmopolitan
		
00:40:17 --> 00:40:19
			city. Then he says, I want to study
		
00:40:19 --> 00:40:19
			in Europe.
		
00:40:20 --> 00:40:22
			He goes there for a year, but nobody
		
00:40:22 --> 00:40:25
			in the universities will recognize his certificates.
		
00:40:26 --> 00:40:27
			Whereas University of Baghdad,
		
00:40:28 --> 00:40:29
			what is a pessentrein?
		
00:40:29 --> 00:40:32
			We don't acknowledge this at all. And so
		
00:40:32 --> 00:40:34
			after a year, he just gets kind of
		
00:40:34 --> 00:40:35
			rebuffed
		
00:40:35 --> 00:40:37
			and goes back feeling rather
		
00:40:38 --> 00:40:39
			disconsolate. This is 1971.
		
00:40:42 --> 00:40:43
			So he's back in Java,
		
00:40:45 --> 00:40:47
			has the the proper marriage ceremony,
		
00:40:47 --> 00:40:49
			and he travels around tours at the Sant'Rennes,
		
00:40:49 --> 00:40:53
			the shrines, works for a sociological institute, and
		
00:40:53 --> 00:40:54
			starts to make a name for himself when
		
00:40:54 --> 00:40:57
			he publishes in the journal, which is called
		
00:40:57 --> 00:41:00
			Prisma, which becomes one of kind of centers
		
00:41:00 --> 00:41:01
			central
		
00:41:01 --> 00:41:03
			platforms for social
		
00:41:03 --> 00:41:04
			come religious,
		
00:41:05 --> 00:41:06
			theorizing in Indonesia
		
00:41:07 --> 00:41:07
			at the time.
		
00:41:09 --> 00:41:10
			Not much income.
		
00:41:11 --> 00:41:15
			You don't earn much publishing in sociology journals.
		
00:41:15 --> 00:41:17
			So his wife, Noria,
		
00:41:18 --> 00:41:21
			is selling peanut snacks to students outside the
		
00:41:21 --> 00:41:22
			university
		
00:41:22 --> 00:41:23
			and at night,
		
00:41:24 --> 00:41:26
			after going to his classes and so forth,
		
00:41:26 --> 00:41:28
			he's helping her put roasting the peanuts, putting
		
00:41:28 --> 00:41:31
			them them to little, plastic sacks, and then
		
00:41:31 --> 00:41:34
			on his Vespa motor scooter, he would take
		
00:41:34 --> 00:41:37
			them off, in the morning to deliver them.
		
00:41:38 --> 00:41:38
			He has,
		
00:41:40 --> 00:41:43
			after 3 years, 2 daughters. He helps with
		
00:41:43 --> 00:41:45
			the housework. It's kind of a 3rd world
		
00:41:45 --> 00:41:48
			situation. It's no air conditioning. It's very, very
		
00:41:48 --> 00:41:49
			basic.
		
00:41:49 --> 00:41:52
			Even though he's already acknowledged as as somebody
		
00:41:52 --> 00:41:53
			who can write seriously
		
00:41:54 --> 00:41:56
			on contemporary topics in a sociology
		
00:41:57 --> 00:41:58
			journal.
		
00:41:59 --> 00:42:01
			A breakthrough starts when he is given an
		
00:42:01 --> 00:42:01
			ijazah
		
00:42:02 --> 00:42:03
			in
		
00:42:03 --> 00:42:04
			qwa'id al fakih,
		
00:42:05 --> 00:42:07
			the basic maxims of Islamic jurisprudence,
		
00:42:07 --> 00:42:09
			and also in the hikim of ibn Atha
		
00:42:09 --> 00:42:11
			al al Eskandari, which is a classic Sufi
		
00:42:11 --> 00:42:12
			text.
		
00:42:12 --> 00:42:14
			And because he has this ijazah, this teaching
		
00:42:14 --> 00:42:17
			certificate, he's able to teach and actually to
		
00:42:17 --> 00:42:18
			earn a little bit.
		
00:42:19 --> 00:42:21
			1977, he has a third daughter,
		
00:42:22 --> 00:42:24
			and suddenly, he is appointed to be the
		
00:42:24 --> 00:42:26
			dean of the Ursula Dean Faculty
		
00:42:26 --> 00:42:29
			in, the Hesham Ashari University, maybe after his
		
00:42:29 --> 00:42:30
			grandfather,
		
00:42:31 --> 00:42:33
			in his town of Jombang, which is a
		
00:42:33 --> 00:42:36
			Western style university in structure, but it's designed
		
00:42:36 --> 00:42:36
			for the Pessantren
		
00:42:37 --> 00:42:38
			graduates.
		
00:42:38 --> 00:42:40
			He's asked to become a popular preacher.
		
00:42:42 --> 00:42:44
			1 Ramadan, he sets out to go through
		
00:42:44 --> 00:42:47
			the 30 juz of the Quran using the
		
00:42:47 --> 00:42:48
			tafsir of Jalalayn,
		
00:42:49 --> 00:42:52
			and it said that one evening, a train
		
00:42:52 --> 00:42:53
			was delayed in the station
		
00:42:54 --> 00:42:56
			as the passengers were still listening to the
		
00:42:56 --> 00:42:58
			to the Bayan. They didn't want to miss
		
00:42:58 --> 00:42:59
			it, and so the train actually waited
		
00:43:00 --> 00:43:02
			for the passengers. He becomes really, really popular.
		
00:43:05 --> 00:43:07
			He's pottering around on his Vespa scooter and
		
00:43:07 --> 00:43:08
			has an accident,
		
00:43:08 --> 00:43:10
			quite a serious one. His
		
00:43:11 --> 00:43:13
			vision from this time
		
00:43:13 --> 00:43:14
			starts to deteriorate,
		
00:43:14 --> 00:43:16
			his retina detaches,
		
00:43:16 --> 00:43:18
			and he doesn't really because he's impatient,
		
00:43:19 --> 00:43:22
			with medical treatment, doesn't really allow it to
		
00:43:22 --> 00:43:22
			recover.
		
00:43:24 --> 00:43:24
			And,
		
00:43:24 --> 00:43:27
			in one eye, he's kind of semi blind,
		
00:43:27 --> 00:43:29
			from then on.
		
00:43:30 --> 00:43:32
			He's obviously a rising staff of the Natatul
		
00:43:32 --> 00:43:33
			Olomap,
		
00:43:33 --> 00:43:35
			and he joins their shura council. This means
		
00:43:35 --> 00:43:37
			he has to go to the capital Jakarta.
		
00:43:38 --> 00:43:40
			So that means a smaller salary. He has
		
00:43:40 --> 00:43:42
			to live in a very remote suburb in
		
00:43:42 --> 00:43:43
			a small house.
		
00:43:44 --> 00:43:45
			4th daughter is born,
		
00:43:47 --> 00:43:48
			and,
		
00:43:48 --> 00:43:49
			Abdulrahman
		
00:43:49 --> 00:43:51
			quite like a son. He remembers that he
		
00:43:51 --> 00:43:53
			has 4 older sisters, so maybe
		
00:43:54 --> 00:43:56
			they'll get lucky. But Noria says,
		
00:43:56 --> 00:43:57
			perhaps not.
		
00:44:01 --> 00:44:03
			But they're in this small house now in
		
00:44:03 --> 00:44:05
			a very moderate salary.
		
00:44:05 --> 00:44:08
			The Naqdul Olama are having increasing difficulties with
		
00:44:08 --> 00:44:09
			the new regime
		
00:44:10 --> 00:44:11
			of Suharto,
		
00:44:12 --> 00:44:15
			even though they've kind of colluded or some
		
00:44:15 --> 00:44:17
			of them have in the extermination
		
00:44:17 --> 00:44:18
			of Javanese
		
00:44:18 --> 00:44:19
			communism
		
00:44:20 --> 00:44:23
			because Suharto is basically a military dictator.
		
00:44:24 --> 00:44:27
			In the early 19 eighties, the regime becomes
		
00:44:27 --> 00:44:28
			increasingly repressive.
		
00:44:29 --> 00:44:30
			Often he's arrested
		
00:44:30 --> 00:44:32
			and detained overnight.
		
00:44:33 --> 00:44:36
			Because he's working in official circles,
		
00:44:36 --> 00:44:38
			through the Natu Gul Alama, he does have
		
00:44:38 --> 00:44:38
			connections.
		
00:44:39 --> 00:44:41
			And if we're thinking about leadership,
		
00:44:41 --> 00:44:43
			we might want to ponder the way in
		
00:44:43 --> 00:44:44
			which he
		
00:44:44 --> 00:44:46
			tries to establish connections
		
00:44:46 --> 00:44:48
			in the the ruling
		
00:44:48 --> 00:44:49
			military establishment
		
00:44:50 --> 00:44:52
			as a means of allowing the nadir ul
		
00:44:52 --> 00:44:54
			ulama to continue their work.
		
00:44:55 --> 00:44:57
			Because there are opportunities in this period.
		
00:44:58 --> 00:44:58
			Suharto,
		
00:44:58 --> 00:45:00
			as part of his
		
00:45:00 --> 00:45:02
			pushback against communism,
		
00:45:03 --> 00:45:06
			has decided that some of these moderate Islamic
		
00:45:06 --> 00:45:07
			groups
		
00:45:07 --> 00:45:08
			should be
		
00:45:08 --> 00:45:09
			encouraged
		
00:45:10 --> 00:45:11
			to try and
		
00:45:12 --> 00:45:12
			sanctify
		
00:45:12 --> 00:45:13
			or Islamize
		
00:45:14 --> 00:45:14
			these
		
00:45:15 --> 00:45:15
			villagers
		
00:45:16 --> 00:45:18
			in many parts of Java who might have
		
00:45:18 --> 00:45:21
			Muslim names, but believe in spirits and have
		
00:45:21 --> 00:45:22
			never been inside a mosque
		
00:45:22 --> 00:45:25
			as a kind of bulwark against communism. So
		
00:45:25 --> 00:45:26
			Naft al Ullama,
		
00:45:26 --> 00:45:29
			not wanting to be tools of the regime,
		
00:45:29 --> 00:45:31
			nonetheless see this as an opportunity. So
		
00:45:32 --> 00:45:34
			they have to strike a very delicate balance.
		
00:45:34 --> 00:45:36
			So one of the things that he does
		
00:45:36 --> 00:45:38
			is to create not really a friendship, but
		
00:45:38 --> 00:45:40
			a kind of relationship with somebody called Benny
		
00:45:40 --> 00:45:41
			Mordani.
		
00:45:43 --> 00:45:44
			This is Jenny general
		
00:45:45 --> 00:45:47
			Benny Mordani, who is a Catholic,
		
00:45:47 --> 00:45:48
			head of military intelligence.
		
00:45:50 --> 00:45:51
			Normally, in the Suharto
		
00:45:52 --> 00:45:54
			regime, these key things like intelligence,
		
00:45:55 --> 00:45:56
			they're drawn from
		
00:45:56 --> 00:46:00
			secular background, often Christian communities. Very unusual for
		
00:46:00 --> 00:46:02
			religious Muslim to be involved in the state
		
00:46:03 --> 00:46:03
			like that.
		
00:46:04 --> 00:46:06
			Benny Mordani is famous for the lee as
		
00:46:06 --> 00:46:07
			the leader of the 1975
		
00:46:08 --> 00:46:09
			Indonesian
		
00:46:09 --> 00:46:10
			army invasion
		
00:46:11 --> 00:46:12
			of East Timor
		
00:46:12 --> 00:46:15
			with a lot of human rights abuses.
		
00:46:15 --> 00:46:17
			Portuguese have pulled out,
		
00:46:18 --> 00:46:19
			and the Indonesians
		
00:46:19 --> 00:46:20
			move in
		
00:46:20 --> 00:46:23
			with support from the Israel from the Australian
		
00:46:23 --> 00:46:24
			government
		
00:46:24 --> 00:46:26
			who don't believe in
		
00:46:26 --> 00:46:28
			an independent East Timor.
		
00:46:28 --> 00:46:30
			So in goes Benny Mordani
		
00:46:30 --> 00:46:33
			with his militias and his death squads, and
		
00:46:34 --> 00:46:35
			it's an uneasy relationship.
		
00:46:37 --> 00:46:41
			But the old Portuguese colonies, because under Salazar
		
00:46:41 --> 00:46:43
			in Portugal, Islam was not a legal religion.
		
00:46:44 --> 00:46:46
			Like in in Spain, you couldn't open a
		
00:46:46 --> 00:46:48
			mosque until Franco died in 1975.
		
00:46:48 --> 00:46:49
			It was national Catholicism.
		
00:46:50 --> 00:46:52
			And even to this day, in former Portuguese
		
00:46:52 --> 00:46:54
			colonies, Muslims have a hard time.
		
00:46:55 --> 00:46:57
			Islam is still not the recognized religion in
		
00:46:57 --> 00:47:00
			Angola, for instance. You still can't legally operate
		
00:47:00 --> 00:47:02
			a mosque in Angola.
		
00:47:02 --> 00:47:04
			And if you're in the mood
		
00:47:05 --> 00:47:07
			to be depressed, you can look even on
		
00:47:07 --> 00:47:10
			YouTube at pictures of illegal mosques being burnt
		
00:47:10 --> 00:47:13
			down in Angola by Christian mobs. It regularly
		
00:47:13 --> 00:47:14
			happens. It's
		
00:47:14 --> 00:47:17
			an ongoing issue there. Even the Muslim community
		
00:47:17 --> 00:47:18
			is small. So East Timor is also this
		
00:47:18 --> 00:47:19
			kind of militant
		
00:47:20 --> 00:47:20
			inquisitionized
		
00:47:21 --> 00:47:24
			Catholic place. Mordani is also Catholic, but he
		
00:47:24 --> 00:47:25
			wants it to be part of the
		
00:47:26 --> 00:47:26
			Indonesian
		
00:47:27 --> 00:47:27
			state.
		
00:47:31 --> 00:47:32
			Sometimes,
		
00:47:34 --> 00:47:38
			Wahid will speak out against corruption in the
		
00:47:38 --> 00:47:39
			Saharitel government
		
00:47:40 --> 00:47:41
			and also against the brutality
		
00:47:42 --> 00:47:43
			of the anti Islamist
		
00:47:43 --> 00:47:44
			crackdowns.
		
00:47:44 --> 00:47:46
			Anything that looks like could be an fundamentalist
		
00:47:47 --> 00:47:47
			fundamentalism,
		
00:47:48 --> 00:47:50
			the women will be raped, the men will
		
00:47:50 --> 00:47:52
			be beaten up. It'll be the usual kind
		
00:47:52 --> 00:47:52
			of,
		
00:47:54 --> 00:47:55
			regime saga.
		
00:47:56 --> 00:47:59
			And Benny Mordani is very much kind of
		
00:47:59 --> 00:47:59
			at the forefront
		
00:48:00 --> 00:48:01
			of those crackdowns,
		
00:48:01 --> 00:48:03
			And it's almost certain that
		
00:48:04 --> 00:48:05
			some of the
		
00:48:06 --> 00:48:08
			the riots and the conflagrations
		
00:48:08 --> 00:48:11
			were provoked by the secret police.
		
00:48:12 --> 00:48:14
			Even sectarian rioting
		
00:48:15 --> 00:48:17
			between Muslims and Christians now believe that usually
		
00:48:17 --> 00:48:18
			it would be incited
		
00:48:19 --> 00:48:22
			by, the security forces as a means of
		
00:48:22 --> 00:48:25
			legitimizing a crackdown on various groups.
		
00:48:27 --> 00:48:30
			Meanwhile, the theoretical discussions are continuing about the
		
00:48:30 --> 00:48:31
			compatibility
		
00:48:31 --> 00:48:34
			of traditional Islam with the state Pancha Sila
		
00:48:34 --> 00:48:34
			ideology.
		
00:48:35 --> 00:48:38
			Can Muslims be happy in a state which
		
00:48:38 --> 00:48:41
			doesn't acknowledge Islam as the state's religion, but
		
00:48:41 --> 00:48:43
			just has this perhaps slightly nebulous belief that
		
00:48:43 --> 00:48:45
			values flow from a belief in 1 God.
		
00:48:48 --> 00:48:50
			Some of the younger olema are moving into
		
00:48:50 --> 00:48:52
			the Naqutul olema's shura
		
00:48:54 --> 00:48:54
			council,
		
00:48:55 --> 00:48:57
			the discussion becomes more
		
00:48:58 --> 00:49:00
			intense. And the way the Natu Gulama decide
		
00:49:00 --> 00:49:01
			to play it
		
00:49:02 --> 00:49:04
			is that they're not going to oppose this
		
00:49:04 --> 00:49:05
			Pancha Sila idea,
		
00:49:07 --> 00:49:10
			but instead try and work inside the structures
		
00:49:10 --> 00:49:12
			to push it in a more kind of
		
00:49:12 --> 00:49:13
			Islam friendly
		
00:49:14 --> 00:49:15
			direction.
		
00:49:16 --> 00:49:19
			And that's really how they save the organization.
		
00:49:20 --> 00:49:20
			They're tolerated.
		
00:49:21 --> 00:49:23
			Ngati rlou olema is never shut down by
		
00:49:23 --> 00:49:25
			Soeharto even though civil society is almost dead,
		
00:49:25 --> 00:49:28
			journalists are paid off. It's a very totalitarian
		
00:49:29 --> 00:49:33
			scenario. But they kind of demonstrate to the
		
00:49:33 --> 00:49:35
			state that they're really too big to fail,
		
00:49:35 --> 00:49:36
			30,000,000
		
00:49:36 --> 00:49:36
			members.
		
00:49:37 --> 00:49:39
			So how do you want to take that
		
00:49:39 --> 00:49:41
			on? And so they managed to survive in
		
00:49:41 --> 00:49:42
			this
		
00:49:42 --> 00:49:43
			in this time.
		
00:49:45 --> 00:49:48
			It's not a party political organization, Nata'olulama.
		
00:49:50 --> 00:49:50
			The original
		
00:49:51 --> 00:49:53
			khitah, as they call it, the kind of
		
00:49:57 --> 00:49:57
			educational,
		
00:49:58 --> 00:50:00
			not to kind of
		
00:50:00 --> 00:50:01
			run for parliament.
		
00:50:03 --> 00:50:06
			In due course, partly because of his clever
		
00:50:06 --> 00:50:09
			way of maintaining some kind of modus vivendi
		
00:50:09 --> 00:50:10
			with the Suharto dictatorship,
		
00:50:11 --> 00:50:12
			Abdurrahman Wahid
		
00:50:13 --> 00:50:16
			elected to be chairman of the Natatul Alamat.
		
00:50:17 --> 00:50:20
			There's no salary attaching to that. In their
		
00:50:20 --> 00:50:21
			tradition, the Alim
		
00:50:22 --> 00:50:23
			in an organization like that
		
00:50:24 --> 00:50:25
			doesn't get paid.
		
00:50:25 --> 00:50:27
			Donations come to him all the time,
		
00:50:27 --> 00:50:29
			but he's still living in a cheap rented
		
00:50:29 --> 00:50:31
			house far from Jakarta.
		
00:50:34 --> 00:50:35
			So his
		
00:50:35 --> 00:50:38
			his priority in this time is the reform
		
00:50:38 --> 00:50:38
			of the Pessantrens
		
00:50:39 --> 00:50:41
			and the upgrade of their educational
		
00:50:41 --> 00:50:42
			standards.
		
00:50:43 --> 00:50:45
			Very often these are amazingly informal places
		
00:50:46 --> 00:50:49
			without really a fixed curriculum. They have this
		
00:50:49 --> 00:50:51
			idea of the Quran and the Hadith and
		
00:50:51 --> 00:50:52
			what they call kitabkuning,
		
00:50:53 --> 00:50:55
			which is the traditional curriculum of texts,
		
00:50:58 --> 00:50:59
			and Sufism.
		
00:51:00 --> 00:51:00
			But,
		
00:51:01 --> 00:51:04
			often there's no formal enrollment. Anybody just sits
		
00:51:04 --> 00:51:05
			in to a class.
		
00:51:06 --> 00:51:07
			There might be informal
		
00:51:08 --> 00:51:09
			assessment procedures,
		
00:51:10 --> 00:51:11
			half the time people don't seem to be
		
00:51:11 --> 00:51:13
			there or they're out growing,
		
00:51:14 --> 00:51:17
			you know, picking fruit or something. It's really
		
00:51:17 --> 00:51:19
			very informal. That's one reason for the survival
		
00:51:19 --> 00:51:20
			of the naturaolamat,
		
00:51:20 --> 00:51:21
			that it's so organic
		
00:51:22 --> 00:51:22
			and unstructured.
		
00:51:25 --> 00:51:27
			But he wants to regularize things a little
		
00:51:27 --> 00:51:28
			bit.
		
00:51:29 --> 00:51:31
			And he tries to establish
		
00:51:32 --> 00:51:34
			a presence in the major Islamic universities.
		
00:51:35 --> 00:51:38
			We mentioned Sonam Kalajagi University in Georgia Carta,
		
00:51:38 --> 00:51:38
			Sherifidayatollah
		
00:51:39 --> 00:51:40
			in Jakarta,
		
00:51:41 --> 00:51:42
			but there's a lot of others.
		
00:51:45 --> 00:51:47
			And he wants to establish a naturol olamat
		
00:51:47 --> 00:51:48
			presence
		
00:51:48 --> 00:51:51
			where often the discourse has been dominated by
		
00:51:51 --> 00:51:53
			a little more philosophical
		
00:51:53 --> 00:51:54
			or modernist
		
00:51:54 --> 00:51:56
			reformist types of Muslims.
		
00:51:57 --> 00:51:59
			And later on, you have the appearance of
		
00:51:59 --> 00:51:59
			the Paramedina
		
00:52:00 --> 00:52:02
			University in Jakarta, which is still very
		
00:52:03 --> 00:52:03
			vibrant,
		
00:52:04 --> 00:52:05
			established by Nur
		
00:52:05 --> 00:52:08
			Nur Hollis Majid, who's also from John Bang,
		
00:52:08 --> 00:52:10
			but adopts a much more kind of
		
00:52:12 --> 00:52:12
			rationalizing
		
00:52:13 --> 00:52:14
			approach to religion, you might say,
		
00:52:15 --> 00:52:16
			still orthodox.
		
00:52:17 --> 00:52:19
			But he did his PhD with Fazlur Rahman
		
00:52:19 --> 00:52:20
			in Chicago.
		
00:52:21 --> 00:52:23
			Wahid never really studied in the West, so
		
00:52:23 --> 00:52:25
			a different kind of orientation. But the idea
		
00:52:26 --> 00:52:28
			of the the Paramedini University is to train
		
00:52:28 --> 00:52:29
			up,
		
00:52:30 --> 00:52:31
			religious
		
00:52:31 --> 00:52:34
			boys and girls of the elite.
		
00:52:35 --> 00:52:37
			Quite a small institution, but well worth visiting.
		
00:52:42 --> 00:52:44
			So he's doing this. He's reforming the the
		
00:52:44 --> 00:52:47
			Pesan trend. There's tens of thousands of these
		
00:52:47 --> 00:52:49
			places. It's a huge task. He never really
		
00:52:49 --> 00:52:49
			does it
		
00:52:51 --> 00:52:52
			adequately, I think.
		
00:52:53 --> 00:52:55
			He's he never becomes a really good administrator,
		
00:52:55 --> 00:52:57
			even though people trust him and appoint him
		
00:52:57 --> 00:52:58
			to high positions. He's kind of
		
00:53:00 --> 00:53:02
			a bit too laid back in a sense,
		
00:53:02 --> 00:53:03
			humorous guy,
		
00:53:04 --> 00:53:06
			not always wholly reliable,
		
00:53:06 --> 00:53:07
			enormously energetic.
		
00:53:08 --> 00:53:10
			He can go to several meetings on different
		
00:53:10 --> 00:53:12
			islands in a day and in the evening,
		
00:53:12 --> 00:53:13
			10 o'clock, he's meeting journalists.
		
00:53:14 --> 00:53:14
			Indefatigable,
		
00:53:16 --> 00:53:17
			but a little bit chaotic.
		
00:53:18 --> 00:53:19
			But he's still
		
00:53:21 --> 00:53:24
			risking things by being critical of the regime.
		
00:53:24 --> 00:53:25
			And in particular,
		
00:53:26 --> 00:53:27
			the World Bank
		
00:53:27 --> 00:53:30
			agreed to Suharto's idea to create an enormous,
		
00:53:31 --> 00:53:31
			very environmentally
		
00:53:32 --> 00:53:32
			destructive
		
00:53:33 --> 00:53:33
			dam
		
00:53:33 --> 00:53:36
			and reservoir right in the middle of Java.
		
00:53:37 --> 00:53:39
			It's the Kidung Omo dam, one of the
		
00:53:39 --> 00:53:41
			core celebrities at the time in the 19
		
00:53:41 --> 00:53:42
			seventies.
		
00:53:43 --> 00:53:44
			And he writes to the World Bank saying
		
00:53:44 --> 00:53:46
			this is going to destroy,
		
00:53:46 --> 00:53:47
			this region.
		
00:53:49 --> 00:53:50
			But,
		
00:53:50 --> 00:53:53
			Suharto gets angry with him.
		
00:53:53 --> 00:53:55
			The World Bank don't realize where a lot
		
00:53:55 --> 00:53:56
			of the money is going to end up,
		
00:53:57 --> 00:53:58
			but that's a kind of,
		
00:53:59 --> 00:54:02
			very precarious moment for him. But it shows
		
00:54:02 --> 00:54:02
			that he's still
		
00:54:03 --> 00:54:06
			gauging the situation, knowing how far he can
		
00:54:06 --> 00:54:08
			go before everything will be shut down.
		
00:54:11 --> 00:54:11
			1989,
		
00:54:12 --> 00:54:13
			he comes up for reelection
		
00:54:14 --> 00:54:16
			as head of the Natatul Olomat.
		
00:54:17 --> 00:54:19
			And at this time, he
		
00:54:20 --> 00:54:22
			goes to Mecca. He hasn't done his Hajj
		
00:54:22 --> 00:54:22
			yet.
		
00:54:23 --> 00:54:25
			He goes to Mecca for Umrah and he
		
00:54:25 --> 00:54:26
			goes to visit somebody
		
00:54:27 --> 00:54:29
			for his advice on how to deal with
		
00:54:29 --> 00:54:30
			this really very complicated,
		
00:54:31 --> 00:54:31
			sensitive
		
00:54:32 --> 00:54:34
			situation. He's head of the world's largest Islamic
		
00:54:34 --> 00:54:36
			organization in the world's most complicated Islamic country,
		
00:54:37 --> 00:54:40
			the the biggest Islamic country with this pro
		
00:54:40 --> 00:54:42
			Western dic military dictatorship,
		
00:54:43 --> 00:54:45
			which is fighting all kinds of nasty wars,
		
00:54:46 --> 00:54:49
			Aceh conflict is going on, the Ambon conflict,
		
00:54:49 --> 00:54:50
			the Moluccas are on fire.
		
00:54:51 --> 00:54:54
			You have complex situation in Elianjaya,
		
00:54:54 --> 00:54:55
			West Papua. It's
		
00:54:56 --> 00:54:56
			very
		
00:54:57 --> 00:54:58
			difficult, unstable situation.
		
00:54:59 --> 00:55:00
			So he goes to advice
		
00:55:01 --> 00:55:05
			for to, sheikh Mohammed Yassine Faiderni in Mecca.
		
00:55:07 --> 00:55:09
			Yeah. Who I actually, had the privilege of
		
00:55:09 --> 00:55:11
			of visiting once. Must have been a couple
		
00:55:11 --> 00:55:14
			of years before Gostol was there.
		
00:55:15 --> 00:55:17
			He was already about 90. I remember it
		
00:55:17 --> 00:55:18
			quite clearly.
		
00:55:19 --> 00:55:21
			And because by that time, this is long
		
00:55:21 --> 00:55:23
			after the Ottomans have gone,
		
00:55:23 --> 00:55:25
			you couldn't just teach in the Haram.
		
00:55:26 --> 00:55:27
			If you were allowed
		
00:55:28 --> 00:55:30
			to say anything at all it would be
		
00:55:30 --> 00:55:32
			in your house. We have this flat
		
00:55:32 --> 00:55:34
			in Hayil Andalus
		
00:55:36 --> 00:55:38
			and there would be mostly Syrian students sitting
		
00:55:38 --> 00:55:40
			around. We were doing Sahih Muslim at the
		
00:55:40 --> 00:55:41
			time.
		
00:55:41 --> 00:55:42
			Fadani,
		
00:55:43 --> 00:55:44
			would be,
		
00:55:45 --> 00:55:47
			a kind of really, really thin
		
00:55:48 --> 00:55:48
			thin
		
00:55:49 --> 00:55:51
			oriental dye,
		
00:55:51 --> 00:55:53
			a turban, and a sarong.
		
00:55:54 --> 00:55:56
			And during classes, he would smoke
		
00:55:56 --> 00:55:57
			shisha,
		
00:55:58 --> 00:56:00
			which had various herbs and things. It wasn't
		
00:56:00 --> 00:56:01
			wasn't nicotine.
		
00:56:02 --> 00:56:05
			And the students would read the text
		
00:56:05 --> 00:56:08
			and this really ancient Javanese
		
00:56:09 --> 00:56:09
			guy
		
00:56:10 --> 00:56:11
			would just be there, and
		
00:56:12 --> 00:56:13
			the only way you could tell that the
		
00:56:13 --> 00:56:15
			sheikh was still alive was that sometimes the
		
00:56:15 --> 00:56:17
			thing would bubble. And he said, oh, great.
		
00:56:17 --> 00:56:20
			Otherwise, he's kind of like that. And then
		
00:56:20 --> 00:56:21
			sometimes and, you know, it's like the middle
		
00:56:21 --> 00:56:22
			ages. I was
		
00:56:23 --> 00:56:24
			amazed to see this.
		
00:56:24 --> 00:56:26
			He would kind of come to life and
		
00:56:26 --> 00:56:27
			say, let that's wrong
		
00:56:27 --> 00:56:29
			because there was a misprint in the book.
		
00:56:30 --> 00:56:31
			So we'll have to take our printed copies
		
00:56:31 --> 00:56:33
			and correct it because the sheikh had the
		
00:56:33 --> 00:56:35
			real one up there. And he gave me
		
00:56:36 --> 00:56:37
			5 volumes,
		
00:56:38 --> 00:56:40
			which were just the names of the books
		
00:56:40 --> 00:56:42
			which he was authorized to teach.
		
00:56:43 --> 00:56:45
			He was something from the old times, very
		
00:56:45 --> 00:56:46
			impressive to see
		
00:56:47 --> 00:56:49
			that. It was basically sheikh al Hadith in
		
00:56:49 --> 00:56:51
			in Mecca at the time. So
		
00:56:51 --> 00:56:54
			and is acknowledged as the senior scholar from
		
00:56:54 --> 00:56:57
			the Nusantara from the Malay Indonesian world.
		
00:56:58 --> 00:56:59
			Really a
		
00:57:00 --> 00:57:01
			gentle, humorous guy.
		
00:57:04 --> 00:57:05
			You know, they brought in this
		
00:57:05 --> 00:57:09
			strange sunburnt pink Englishman one day who sat
		
00:57:09 --> 00:57:11
			down and listened to Sahih Muslim. He thought,
		
00:57:11 --> 00:57:12
			fine.
		
00:57:12 --> 00:57:14
			He wasn't fazed by that at all.
		
00:57:18 --> 00:57:19
			So Gostor
		
00:57:20 --> 00:57:21
			goes to see him and ask for his
		
00:57:21 --> 00:57:24
			advice. How does he negotiate this very complicated
		
00:57:24 --> 00:57:26
			situation as a leader
		
00:57:26 --> 00:57:28
			in, in Jakarta
		
00:57:29 --> 00:57:32
			and he advises him. And that partnership seems
		
00:57:32 --> 00:57:34
			to have been quite critical in his success
		
00:57:34 --> 00:57:36
			that he's got a spiritual adviser
		
00:57:36 --> 00:57:38
			who asked him to look at intention
		
00:57:39 --> 00:57:42
			and to read people to gauge the political
		
00:57:42 --> 00:57:44
			equation of of the day.
		
00:57:46 --> 00:57:47
			So he's reelected,
		
00:57:48 --> 00:57:51
			the Naftedol Olomar Convention is a big thing
		
00:57:51 --> 00:57:52
			in Indonesia. Suharto
		
00:57:53 --> 00:57:56
			attends because, remember, he's trying to position himself
		
00:57:56 --> 00:57:59
			somebody who's sympathetic to religion because of the
		
00:57:59 --> 00:57:59
			ball against
		
00:58:01 --> 00:58:01
			communism.
		
00:58:04 --> 00:58:06
			Gusteau gives a speech.
		
00:58:07 --> 00:58:10
			Some of the younger olema are not very
		
00:58:10 --> 00:58:11
			happy with him,
		
00:58:12 --> 00:58:13
			partly because
		
00:58:13 --> 00:58:16
			he has his own mosque in his Pesantren
		
00:58:16 --> 00:58:18
			and he allows the local rather tiny Shia
		
00:58:18 --> 00:58:21
			community to attend. They don't like that.
		
00:58:22 --> 00:58:24
			They accuse him of some kind of Moitezelite
		
00:58:25 --> 00:58:27
			rationalism, which is really not the case.
		
00:58:28 --> 00:58:31
			He's not very keen on large scale Arab
		
00:58:31 --> 00:58:31
			missionary
		
00:58:32 --> 00:58:32
			operations
		
00:58:33 --> 00:58:34
			in Indonesia.
		
00:58:35 --> 00:58:36
			This is 1989,
		
00:58:36 --> 00:58:38
			he'd spoken out against Khomeini's
		
00:58:38 --> 00:58:40
			fatwa on Rushdie,
		
00:58:41 --> 00:58:43
			not everybody's flavor of the month.
		
00:58:43 --> 00:58:44
			But Abu,
		
00:58:45 --> 00:58:47
			Abdul Rahman Wahid is aware of all of
		
00:58:47 --> 00:58:50
			this and is fresh from his energizing encounter
		
00:58:50 --> 00:58:52
			with the sheikh in Mecca. And he gives
		
00:58:52 --> 00:58:52
			a speech.
		
00:58:54 --> 00:58:56
			President is there, but these angry young men
		
00:58:56 --> 00:58:58
			are there as well, and he's very witty.
		
00:58:59 --> 00:59:00
			He had a great sense of humor,
		
00:59:00 --> 00:59:01
			elegant,
		
00:59:02 --> 00:59:04
			talks about the necessity of reforming the Paysan
		
00:59:04 --> 00:59:05
			Thren,
		
00:59:05 --> 00:59:07
			and is back in.
		
00:59:08 --> 00:59:09
			But
		
00:59:09 --> 00:59:11
			and this tends to dominate his later years.
		
00:59:12 --> 00:59:15
			His health continues to deteriorate. He's diagnosed now
		
00:59:15 --> 00:59:16
			with type 2 diabetes.
		
00:59:16 --> 00:59:19
			He has congestive heart issues. He's significantly
		
00:59:20 --> 00:59:22
			overweight, doesn't take much exercise,
		
00:59:24 --> 00:59:26
			this becomes increasingly an issue.
		
00:59:27 --> 00:59:29
			So this is also the time collapse of
		
00:59:29 --> 00:59:31
			the Iron Curtain and the Americans are less
		
00:59:31 --> 00:59:34
			interested in supporting dictators to keep out the
		
00:59:34 --> 00:59:37
			evils of communism, so that means Suharto is
		
00:59:38 --> 00:59:39
			in a more exposed position.
		
00:59:40 --> 00:59:43
			Suharto decides to respond by flagging up his
		
00:59:44 --> 00:59:46
			supposedly Islamic credentials. He makes the hajj
		
00:59:47 --> 00:59:48
			And on the Hajj,
		
00:59:49 --> 00:59:51
			a lot of rulers who want, you know,
		
00:59:51 --> 00:59:53
			to demonstrate to their people their piety, they
		
00:59:53 --> 00:59:54
			they do the Hajj
		
00:59:55 --> 00:59:58
			specifically and, there's usually cameras around.
		
01:00:00 --> 01:00:01
			I was once in,
		
01:00:03 --> 01:00:05
			doing Umrah in Mecca.
		
01:00:06 --> 01:00:07
			There was some shouting
		
01:00:07 --> 01:00:08
			in the.
		
01:00:08 --> 01:00:10
			So what's going on?
		
01:00:10 --> 01:00:11
			And it was
		
01:00:15 --> 01:00:16
			Adafi.
		
01:00:17 --> 01:00:18
			So instead of saying,
		
01:00:19 --> 01:00:21
			death to America, death to world colonialism.
		
01:00:22 --> 01:00:23
			I better
		
01:00:23 --> 01:00:25
			wait a bit before I join the crowd.
		
01:00:26 --> 01:00:27
			He was he was actually there. I also
		
01:00:27 --> 01:00:29
			saw general Zia there on the Hajj.
		
01:00:30 --> 01:00:32
			You know, the chaos of the Jamar'at where
		
01:00:32 --> 01:00:35
			you're treading on slippers and throwing the stones
		
01:00:35 --> 01:00:36
			and it's like
		
01:00:36 --> 01:00:37
			giama.
		
01:00:37 --> 01:00:38
			Suddenly, this
		
01:00:39 --> 01:00:39
			limousine
		
01:00:40 --> 01:00:42
			cruises up, cuts through the crowd,
		
01:00:43 --> 01:00:43
			police,
		
01:00:44 --> 01:00:45
			the door is opened,
		
01:00:45 --> 01:00:48
			General Zia with his mustache steps out, the
		
01:00:48 --> 01:00:50
			flunky hands him his
		
01:00:50 --> 01:00:52
			7 stones from a bag,
		
01:00:53 --> 01:00:55
			back into the air conditioned limousine and off
		
01:00:55 --> 01:00:58
			he goes. Who's that? So it's a kind
		
01:00:58 --> 01:00:59
			of thing that politicians will do.
		
01:01:00 --> 01:01:01
			Suharto does this,
		
01:01:02 --> 01:01:05
			even though he's made speeches on behalf of
		
01:01:05 --> 01:01:05
			Ataturk
		
01:01:06 --> 01:01:08
			and he is really into the dhorn, which
		
01:01:08 --> 01:01:10
			is the traditional Javanese magic.
		
01:01:11 --> 01:01:13
			He spends time with magicians.
		
01:01:14 --> 01:01:15
			So he has this strange
		
01:01:16 --> 01:01:18
			relationship. On the one hand, he comes from
		
01:01:18 --> 01:01:21
			this Abangan kind of nominal Muslim background, but
		
01:01:21 --> 01:01:22
			on the other hand, he's tried to push
		
01:01:22 --> 01:01:24
			back against them because that was the seed
		
01:01:24 --> 01:01:25
			bed for communism.
		
01:01:25 --> 01:01:28
			So situation is precarious. He starts a mosque
		
01:01:28 --> 01:01:28
			building program.
		
01:01:30 --> 01:01:32
			He creates a new kind of Islamic intellectual
		
01:01:32 --> 01:01:35
			forum, which includes some of the radicals. Abu'lurman
		
01:01:36 --> 01:01:36
			Wahid
		
01:01:37 --> 01:01:38
			refused to join this.
		
01:01:40 --> 01:01:43
			Benny Mordani has already kind of severed whatever
		
01:01:43 --> 01:01:45
			connection he had with Wahid,
		
01:01:46 --> 01:01:48
			so Harto is also starting to undermine him.
		
01:01:50 --> 01:01:52
			Wahid, instead of getting involved in this Islamic
		
01:01:52 --> 01:01:53
			forum,
		
01:01:53 --> 01:01:56
			joins something that actually leads it called the
		
01:01:56 --> 01:01:59
			democracy forum, which includes a lot of Christians
		
01:01:59 --> 01:02:00
			and Buddhists and
		
01:02:01 --> 01:02:02
			other people,
		
01:02:02 --> 01:02:04
			which is not what Suharto expected.
		
01:02:06 --> 01:02:09
			So Suharto tries to get Abdul Rahman Wahid
		
01:02:09 --> 01:02:10
			fired from his post as head of the
		
01:02:10 --> 01:02:11
			Natatul Ullamat,
		
01:02:15 --> 01:02:16
			is not successful.
		
01:02:18 --> 01:02:21
			He falls ill. His situation is obviously precarious.
		
01:02:22 --> 01:02:25
			There's riots everywhere. The secret services are sending
		
01:02:25 --> 01:02:28
			in all this kind of mysterious
		
01:02:28 --> 01:02:31
			outsiders into places like Ambon who don't speak
		
01:02:31 --> 01:02:33
			the local dialect with short hair, who are
		
01:02:34 --> 01:02:36
			sort of throwing petrol bombs at churches and
		
01:02:36 --> 01:02:38
			mosques and making the whole thing,
		
01:02:39 --> 01:02:41
			flare up. The idea being to
		
01:02:42 --> 01:02:44
			rally the people around the military.
		
01:02:47 --> 01:02:49
			Often when these riots take place, it's Abdurrahman
		
01:02:50 --> 01:02:51
			Wahid who goes in to mediate.
		
01:02:55 --> 01:02:56
			And then he gets sicker. He has a
		
01:02:56 --> 01:02:58
			really bad stroke,
		
01:02:58 --> 01:03:00
			very nearly dies,
		
01:03:00 --> 01:03:02
			almost dies at that point. People think, well,
		
01:03:02 --> 01:03:04
			his that's the end of him.
		
01:03:04 --> 01:03:06
			But he does make a partial recovery.
		
01:03:07 --> 01:03:08
			More crises.
		
01:03:09 --> 01:03:11
			1997, the Asian financial crisis.
		
01:03:11 --> 01:03:13
			Catastrophe. A lot of poor people lose their
		
01:03:13 --> 01:03:14
			savings.
		
01:03:14 --> 01:03:18
			It's the usual consequence of casino capitalism. It's
		
01:03:18 --> 01:03:20
			the poor who usually lose their homes or
		
01:03:20 --> 01:03:20
			whatever, as
		
01:03:21 --> 01:03:23
			as with the 2008 financial crisis.
		
01:03:24 --> 01:03:25
			There's a really bad drought.
		
01:03:26 --> 01:03:27
			Something's wrong with the environment.
		
01:03:30 --> 01:03:31
			The IMF
		
01:03:31 --> 01:03:32
			give an emergency
		
01:03:32 --> 01:03:34
			grant to Indonesia,
		
01:03:34 --> 01:03:37
			much of which is obviously being gobbled up
		
01:03:37 --> 01:03:39
			by the Suharto family. It's very conspicuous.
		
01:03:40 --> 01:03:42
			The government is sponsoring attacks on the Chinese
		
01:03:42 --> 01:03:47
			community who are being repressed. Student demonstrations everywhere.
		
01:03:49 --> 01:03:51
			And the military is
		
01:03:51 --> 01:03:53
			not sure what to do, partly because Suharto's
		
01:03:53 --> 01:03:55
			tactic with the army has been to support
		
01:03:55 --> 01:03:57
			rival factions, divide and rule.
		
01:04:00 --> 01:04:01
			And the olema
		
01:04:02 --> 01:04:03
			say it's time for elections.
		
01:04:04 --> 01:04:07
			So, you can go past your sell by
		
01:04:07 --> 01:04:07
			date.
		
01:04:08 --> 01:04:10
			We need the people to choose something better.
		
01:04:10 --> 01:04:13
			It's a very, very precarious time for Indonesia.
		
01:04:14 --> 01:04:16
			Americans are not really backing the military any
		
01:04:16 --> 01:04:17
			longer.
		
01:04:17 --> 01:04:20
			You've got all of these really horrible, brutal
		
01:04:20 --> 01:04:22
			ethnic riots and people going through the streets
		
01:04:22 --> 01:04:25
			with sharpened bamboo poles looking for members of
		
01:04:25 --> 01:04:26
			rival
		
01:04:26 --> 01:04:27
			communities.
		
01:04:28 --> 01:04:30
			It's a complicated country to to govern.
		
01:04:32 --> 01:04:35
			So Suharto invites senior Olamat to his palace
		
01:04:35 --> 01:04:37
			and asks for their support.
		
01:04:39 --> 01:04:41
			Muhammadiyah, Natadu Olamah are both there and say,
		
01:04:41 --> 01:04:43
			first, you have to return
		
01:04:43 --> 01:04:45
			all of the wealth that your family has
		
01:04:45 --> 01:04:47
			expropriated because this is too extreme. All of
		
01:04:47 --> 01:04:50
			that IMF money, give it back.
		
01:04:51 --> 01:04:52
			So Hartal's
		
01:04:52 --> 01:04:54
			response is to resign.
		
01:04:56 --> 01:04:59
			Jakarta is in chaos. Students are occupying parliament.
		
01:05:00 --> 01:05:02
			Abu Rahman Wahid is still really sick,
		
01:05:04 --> 01:05:06
			hardly mobile after the stroke and the diabetes
		
01:05:06 --> 01:05:09
			and can't see properly. But people are coming
		
01:05:09 --> 01:05:10
			to his bedside and to his house.
		
01:05:11 --> 01:05:13
			He's in a wheel wheelchair getting about
		
01:05:13 --> 01:05:16
			asking for his advice. Where do they turn
		
01:05:16 --> 01:05:18
			in this kind of sea of 2 200,000,000
		
01:05:18 --> 01:05:20
			anxious people? There's a new caretaker president,
		
01:05:21 --> 01:05:22
			president Habibi.
		
01:05:24 --> 01:05:25
			Abdulrahman Warhid
		
01:05:26 --> 01:05:28
			advocates a slow progressive approach to him,
		
01:05:29 --> 01:05:31
			talks to him about some of the more
		
01:05:31 --> 01:05:34
			anti Chinese elements of his cabinet who he
		
01:05:34 --> 01:05:35
			thinks are bad news.
		
01:05:36 --> 01:05:37
			Habibi actually turns out
		
01:05:38 --> 01:05:40
			to be better than expected. He does open
		
01:05:40 --> 01:05:41
			up the field,
		
01:05:42 --> 01:05:42
			for
		
01:05:43 --> 01:05:45
			a more thriving democracy. He allows more parties
		
01:05:45 --> 01:05:46
			to be established.
		
01:05:46 --> 01:05:48
			Suddenly, a range of Islamist parties
		
01:05:49 --> 01:05:50
			pop up.
		
01:05:52 --> 01:05:53
			But there's still,
		
01:05:54 --> 01:05:56
			communal violence. Some of the hardcore
		
01:05:57 --> 01:05:59
			supporters of Suhartos called Karabati
		
01:05:59 --> 01:06:02
			are beating up and killing, letters to the
		
01:06:02 --> 01:06:03
			olamah scholars,
		
01:06:04 --> 01:06:05
			perhaps as a provocation.
		
01:06:06 --> 01:06:08
			Wahid urges restraint, don't retaliate.
		
01:06:09 --> 01:06:11
			East Timor is a catastrophe,
		
01:06:12 --> 01:06:14
			but Wahid won't oppose
		
01:06:14 --> 01:06:18
			won't support an independence referee referendum until Jakarta
		
01:06:18 --> 01:06:20
			is under some kind of order because
		
01:06:21 --> 01:06:23
			the central government is in no position to
		
01:06:23 --> 01:06:25
			preside over anything there.
		
01:06:26 --> 01:06:29
			In West Timor anti Muslim riots, dozens of
		
01:06:29 --> 01:06:30
			mosques are destroyed.
		
01:06:31 --> 01:06:33
			Ambon, which is a mixed island, a lot
		
01:06:33 --> 01:06:34
			of violence. Ace,
		
01:06:35 --> 01:06:36
			which has never really
		
01:06:36 --> 01:06:39
			liked being part of Indonesia. It's a different
		
01:06:39 --> 01:06:42
			language, different culture. It didn't Islamized much earlier.
		
01:06:43 --> 01:06:44
			Mordania
		
01:06:44 --> 01:06:46
			sent the army into
		
01:06:47 --> 01:06:49
			Aceh. His eyesight is now more or less
		
01:06:49 --> 01:06:52
			defunct. He travels to various clinics
		
01:06:52 --> 01:06:55
			hoping it can be restored, but he can't
		
01:06:55 --> 01:06:57
			read any longer. He can hardly see.
		
01:06:58 --> 01:07:01
			So 1999 with a country in real crisis,
		
01:07:01 --> 01:07:03
			the possibility of total anarchy and chaos,
		
01:07:05 --> 01:07:07
			He decides to run for president,
		
01:07:11 --> 01:07:13
			because he's a kind of unifying
		
01:07:13 --> 01:07:14
			figure.
		
01:07:14 --> 01:07:16
			He's credible because of his
		
01:07:17 --> 01:07:18
			record of opposition
		
01:07:18 --> 01:07:19
			to Suharto.
		
01:07:20 --> 01:07:22
			Because of his moderate policies, the minorities trust
		
01:07:22 --> 01:07:23
			him.
		
01:07:23 --> 01:07:24
			And,
		
01:07:25 --> 01:07:27
			the Western media, I remember at the time,
		
01:07:27 --> 01:07:30
			flips out and says Muslim cleric elected as
		
01:07:30 --> 01:07:31
			leader of
		
01:07:32 --> 01:07:34
			Islam's most populous country and they think it's
		
01:07:34 --> 01:07:35
			Khomeini
		
01:07:35 --> 01:07:37
			landing in Tehran airport because
		
01:07:38 --> 01:07:40
			they've they've never met a traditional Muslim scholar.
		
01:07:40 --> 01:07:42
			They only know these kind of
		
01:07:42 --> 01:07:43
			anxiety,
		
01:07:45 --> 01:07:45
			ideologues.
		
01:07:47 --> 01:07:49
			But that is the case. He's a traditionally
		
01:07:49 --> 01:07:51
			trained Alem. He's been to Pessentherin. He's not
		
01:07:51 --> 01:07:53
			got a western style degree, but now he's
		
01:07:53 --> 01:07:55
			running. He's in the presidential palace
		
01:07:56 --> 01:07:58
			built for the Dutch governors. He's in that
		
01:07:58 --> 01:07:59
			world of
		
01:07:59 --> 01:08:00
			protocol.
		
01:08:03 --> 01:08:05
			And the swearing in. He can't actually read
		
01:08:05 --> 01:08:07
			the oath because his eyes are so bad,
		
01:08:07 --> 01:08:08
			so an army officer has to read it
		
01:08:08 --> 01:08:10
			and he repeats the words after him. That
		
01:08:10 --> 01:08:11
			doesn't
		
01:08:11 --> 01:08:13
			doesn't look so good.
		
01:08:14 --> 01:08:16
			But he wants to make a clean sweep.
		
01:08:17 --> 01:08:18
			One of the first things he does is
		
01:08:18 --> 01:08:20
			to abolish the Ministry of Information.
		
01:08:21 --> 01:08:23
			Ministry of information, a lot of Muslim countries
		
01:08:23 --> 01:08:25
			like to have those in order to control
		
01:08:25 --> 01:08:26
			the discourse
		
01:08:26 --> 01:08:27
			Orwellian.
		
01:08:27 --> 01:08:29
			He just gets rid of it altogether.
		
01:08:29 --> 01:08:32
			What what's the point? Information is is already
		
01:08:32 --> 01:08:34
			there. You don't need the government to shape
		
01:08:34 --> 01:08:35
			it. That goes completely.
		
01:08:36 --> 01:08:38
			The Ministry of Religion is downsized
		
01:08:38 --> 01:08:41
			because she has a bad experience of state
		
01:08:41 --> 01:08:42
			intervention,
		
01:08:43 --> 01:08:44
			official khutbas
		
01:08:45 --> 01:08:48
			and interfering in mosque imam appointments or in
		
01:08:48 --> 01:08:48
			the churches.
		
01:08:49 --> 01:08:52
			There's still a ministry of religious affairs, but
		
01:08:52 --> 01:08:54
			it's not this kind of huge controlling thing
		
01:08:54 --> 01:08:55
			that it used to be.
		
01:08:56 --> 01:08:57
			Irianjaya,
		
01:08:57 --> 01:08:58
			which is,
		
01:08:59 --> 01:09:01
			if you know the map perhaps, you know
		
01:09:01 --> 01:09:04
			that the eastern part is Papua New Guinea
		
01:09:04 --> 01:09:05
			and the western part,
		
01:09:06 --> 01:09:07
			is part of Indonesia
		
01:09:08 --> 01:09:10
			and ethnically very mixed. There have been Muslim
		
01:09:10 --> 01:09:13
			Sultanates there for 600 years, but the inland
		
01:09:13 --> 01:09:14
			is sort of Austronesian
		
01:09:14 --> 01:09:15
			people.
		
01:09:15 --> 01:09:16
			Difficult.
		
01:09:18 --> 01:09:20
			He is reconciled to the local
		
01:09:20 --> 01:09:24
			separatists by offering various concessions even by changing
		
01:09:24 --> 01:09:25
			the the name
		
01:09:26 --> 01:09:28
			of the province. There's a revolutionary government now
		
01:09:28 --> 01:09:31
			in East Timor. He personally travels to Dili,
		
01:09:31 --> 01:09:34
			the capital of East Timor, in order to
		
01:09:34 --> 01:09:37
			offer apologies to the revolutionary government for the
		
01:09:37 --> 01:09:41
			crimes that were committed under the Indonesian occupation.
		
01:09:42 --> 01:09:44
			He goes to South Africa to meet Nelson
		
01:09:44 --> 01:09:46
			Mandela, who advises him to create a kind
		
01:09:46 --> 01:09:47
			of truth and reconciliation
		
01:09:48 --> 01:09:49
			committee for newly democratic
		
01:09:50 --> 01:09:50
			Indonesia.
		
01:09:52 --> 01:09:54
			It's not very easy. Tries to rein in
		
01:09:54 --> 01:09:55
			the military.
		
01:09:56 --> 01:09:58
			That never goes down well. Like what happened
		
01:09:58 --> 01:10:00
			in Pakistan a few months ago.
		
01:10:01 --> 01:10:03
			And he sacks the the the key general
		
01:10:03 --> 01:10:05
			Viram Thol, and he makes quite a few
		
01:10:05 --> 01:10:07
			enemies in the military.
		
01:10:10 --> 01:10:12
			He tries to be reconciled to the Chinese
		
01:10:12 --> 01:10:13
			community.
		
01:10:13 --> 01:10:16
			Under Sukarno and Suharto, it had been illegal
		
01:10:16 --> 01:10:19
			to display the Chinese alphabet in public.
		
01:10:20 --> 01:10:21
			He lifts that prohibition.
		
01:10:23 --> 01:10:25
			He makes the Chinese New Year an
		
01:10:31 --> 01:10:31
			country.
		
01:10:32 --> 01:10:35
			That's quite a big change. The Chinese, even
		
01:10:35 --> 01:10:36
			though they're a wealthy,
		
01:10:37 --> 01:10:38
			mercantile minority,
		
01:10:39 --> 01:10:42
			had often been at the receiving end of
		
01:10:42 --> 01:10:43
			pogroms riots,
		
01:10:44 --> 01:10:47
			suspicions about their true loyalties for a long
		
01:10:47 --> 01:10:48
			time.
		
01:10:52 --> 01:10:56
			It's still a very precarious and anarchic situation
		
01:10:57 --> 01:10:58
			that students want
		
01:10:59 --> 01:11:01
			big figures in the old Suharto regime
		
01:11:02 --> 01:11:05
			not to be left to a reconciliation committee,
		
01:11:05 --> 01:11:06
			but to be prosecuted.
		
01:11:07 --> 01:11:08
			The Islamists
		
01:11:09 --> 01:11:11
			really don't like him. The legal system is
		
01:11:11 --> 01:11:13
			totally corrupt, really difficult to reform.
		
01:11:14 --> 01:11:15
			Very hard to,
		
01:11:16 --> 01:11:19
			pursue a legal case, a civil case in
		
01:11:19 --> 01:11:21
			the courts there because everything seems to be
		
01:11:21 --> 01:11:22
			for sale.
		
01:11:23 --> 01:11:24
			The military,
		
01:11:27 --> 01:11:29
			which is, you know, a big section of
		
01:11:29 --> 01:11:30
			the economy,
		
01:11:31 --> 01:11:34
			most of the revenue for the military comes
		
01:11:34 --> 01:11:37
			from soldiers doing business, generals with forestry businesses
		
01:11:37 --> 01:11:39
			and so forth. That doesn't look so good.
		
01:11:39 --> 01:11:41
			A lot of corrupt politicians, a lot of
		
01:11:41 --> 01:11:42
			people from the ancient regime
		
01:11:42 --> 01:11:45
			try to force him to resign. He tries
		
01:11:45 --> 01:11:47
			to fire the chief of police,
		
01:11:48 --> 01:11:49
			who was
		
01:11:50 --> 01:11:52
			notoriously accused of corruption for having
		
01:11:53 --> 01:11:55
			defrauded a Canadian company,
		
01:11:56 --> 01:11:58
			sold them shares that had already been sold
		
01:11:58 --> 01:12:00
			to some other apparently mythical
		
01:12:01 --> 01:12:03
			person. Chief of police is somebody you don't
		
01:12:03 --> 01:12:06
			necessarily want to antagonize. Television stations,
		
01:12:07 --> 01:12:09
			in many ways still controlled by the Suharto
		
01:12:09 --> 01:12:11
			family, all thy cronies.
		
01:12:12 --> 01:12:14
			The newspapers are pretty hostile to him.
		
01:12:15 --> 01:12:16
			The crisis gets worse.
		
01:12:17 --> 01:12:19
			Maybe he's trying to do too much too
		
01:12:19 --> 01:12:19
			quickly.
		
01:12:20 --> 01:12:21
			For
		
01:12:21 --> 01:12:23
			50 years, they've had a totalitarian,
		
01:12:23 --> 01:12:25
			statist regime and he wants to open things
		
01:12:25 --> 01:12:26
			up.
		
01:12:27 --> 01:12:30
			So the army appear. They bring 40,000
		
01:12:31 --> 01:12:32
			soldiers into Jakarta,
		
01:12:34 --> 01:12:36
			put tanks all around the presidential palace.
		
01:12:39 --> 01:12:40
			His deputy is
		
01:12:41 --> 01:12:44
			Megawati Sukarno Putri, the daughter of Sukarno.
		
01:12:45 --> 01:12:47
			He doesn't want her to become president because
		
01:12:47 --> 01:12:48
			she's
		
01:12:49 --> 01:12:50
			got hard line military connections,
		
01:12:51 --> 01:12:53
			and he thinks that the minorities are going
		
01:12:53 --> 01:12:55
			to rebel again, and you'll have this kind
		
01:12:55 --> 01:12:57
			of colonial situation in Aceh, Erianjaya,
		
01:12:58 --> 01:12:59
			those other places. He really
		
01:12:59 --> 01:13:01
			doesn't trust her,
		
01:13:02 --> 01:13:04
			to deal with the provinces.
		
01:13:05 --> 01:13:07
			It actually deputed her to deal with the
		
01:13:07 --> 01:13:09
			riots in Ambon and she hadn't she hadn't
		
01:13:09 --> 01:13:12
			achieved anything. And she also was known to
		
01:13:12 --> 01:13:13
			have a kind of cult of personality.
		
01:13:14 --> 01:13:14
			But,
		
01:13:16 --> 01:13:18
			parliament is by now against him. The media
		
01:13:18 --> 01:13:21
			is against him. The military is against him.
		
01:13:22 --> 01:13:24
			And the parliament vote for him to be
		
01:13:24 --> 01:13:25
			impeached.
		
01:13:30 --> 01:13:33
			Natadul Olamat students everywhere rioting. Abdulrahman Wawhid tells
		
01:13:33 --> 01:13:34
			them to calm down.
		
01:13:36 --> 01:13:39
			So he's just got hours left in the
		
01:13:39 --> 01:13:42
			former Dutch palace in this unsettled situation.
		
01:13:44 --> 01:13:47
			It is telling the last hours of his
		
01:13:47 --> 01:13:47
			rule.
		
01:13:49 --> 01:13:50
			Late at night,
		
01:13:51 --> 01:13:53
			some journalists go in to interview him,
		
01:13:54 --> 01:13:57
			And he's really a kind of informal alim.
		
01:13:57 --> 01:13:59
			If you've ever studied with traditional olamak, you'll
		
01:13:59 --> 01:14:00
			know how
		
01:14:00 --> 01:14:02
			relaxed they are.
		
01:14:03 --> 01:14:04
			They kind of lie down on the floor
		
01:14:04 --> 01:14:06
			like this, fiddle with their turbans,
		
01:14:07 --> 01:14:08
			kind of
		
01:14:08 --> 01:14:09
			total relaxation.
		
01:14:12 --> 01:14:15
			Mauritanians, in particular, just kind of lie down
		
01:14:15 --> 01:14:17
			and flip their big blue robes all day
		
01:14:17 --> 01:14:17
			is
		
01:14:19 --> 01:14:20
			they they chill.
		
01:14:22 --> 01:14:25
			So this Alim, the Alim president comes out
		
01:14:25 --> 01:14:26
			at 11 PM or something to see the
		
01:14:26 --> 01:14:29
			journalists, Reuters and so forth. And it is
		
01:14:29 --> 01:14:31
			in his house clothes, which kind of what
		
01:14:31 --> 01:14:33
			Indonesians wear when they're at home, baggy shorts
		
01:14:33 --> 01:14:35
			and a t shirt, flip flops.
		
01:14:36 --> 01:14:38
			They're expecting the president of the republic with
		
01:14:38 --> 01:14:40
			a suit and a ribbon.
		
01:14:41 --> 01:14:44
			He comes out and and, of course, the
		
01:14:44 --> 01:14:45
			headline in the Western press is head of
		
01:14:45 --> 01:14:46
			state
		
01:14:47 --> 01:14:47
			has
		
01:14:50 --> 01:14:53
			gone senile, and he's giving interviews in his
		
01:14:53 --> 01:14:53
			underwear.
		
01:14:54 --> 01:14:56
			They just don't get him. He's really not
		
01:14:56 --> 01:14:59
			an ego. He's just like that. He wants
		
01:14:59 --> 01:15:01
			to talk to a journalist. Fine. Why does
		
01:15:01 --> 01:15:03
			he need to put on a bunch of
		
01:15:03 --> 01:15:05
			medals? And the last day in the presidential
		
01:15:05 --> 01:15:07
			palace, the visitors, not politicians, but the country's
		
01:15:07 --> 01:15:08
			religious leaders.
		
01:15:09 --> 01:15:11
			First up, the the Buddhist leaders with their
		
01:15:11 --> 01:15:12
			saffron robes and,
		
01:15:13 --> 01:15:15
			they come to bless him,
		
01:15:16 --> 01:15:17
			And then
		
01:15:18 --> 01:15:20
			Christian evangelicals come along. 1 of them anoints
		
01:15:20 --> 01:15:23
			him with holy oil and reads the Bible.
		
01:15:23 --> 01:15:25
			And so that's kind of the way in
		
01:15:25 --> 01:15:27
			which he goes out
		
01:15:27 --> 01:15:29
			of power by being blessed by the country's
		
01:15:29 --> 01:15:30
			different religions.
		
01:15:34 --> 01:15:36
			Then he goes off to America for medical
		
01:15:36 --> 01:15:36
			treatment.
		
01:15:37 --> 01:15:39
			Next time he tries to run, I think
		
01:15:39 --> 01:15:39
			it's 2,004,
		
01:15:40 --> 01:15:41
			he's disqualified
		
01:15:42 --> 01:15:44
			on medical grounds. He's just not not fit.
		
01:15:45 --> 01:15:47
			But he continues to talk from the side
		
01:15:48 --> 01:15:50
			sidelines, particularly criticizing the military.
		
01:15:52 --> 01:15:54
			Many of you will remember 20 years ago
		
01:15:54 --> 01:15:55
			the Bali bombings.
		
01:15:58 --> 01:16:00
			2005, he was interviewed by an American TV
		
01:16:00 --> 01:16:01
			station
		
01:16:01 --> 01:16:02
			and said
		
01:16:03 --> 01:16:04
			that whole thing was set up by the
		
01:16:04 --> 01:16:05
			military
		
01:16:05 --> 01:16:06
			to justify
		
01:16:06 --> 01:16:08
			crackdowns that they wanted to do. The whole
		
01:16:08 --> 01:16:10
			thing was a false flag operation.
		
01:16:11 --> 01:16:12
			It didn't make him very popular.
		
01:16:14 --> 01:16:14
			2009,
		
01:16:15 --> 01:16:18
			ailing by now, he travels off to Jom
		
01:16:18 --> 01:16:20
			Bang, his hometown, to visit the grave of
		
01:16:20 --> 01:16:21
			his parents at his Pheasantren.
		
01:16:22 --> 01:16:25
			And there in December, his health really takes
		
01:16:25 --> 01:16:26
			a turn for the worse.
		
01:16:27 --> 01:16:29
			And on the 30th December, he dies
		
01:16:30 --> 01:16:33
			buried next to his parents. A simple open
		
01:16:33 --> 01:16:36
			grave in traditional Javanese style, open to the
		
01:16:36 --> 01:16:37
			to the rain. So
		
01:16:38 --> 01:16:39
			we should wind up.
		
01:16:40 --> 01:16:43
			I think there's already a lot of lessons
		
01:16:43 --> 01:16:43
			here.
		
01:16:44 --> 01:16:45
			Essentially,
		
01:16:46 --> 01:16:47
			what we're looking at is
		
01:16:49 --> 01:16:51
			the extent to which somebody who is traditionally,
		
01:16:52 --> 01:16:52
			classically,
		
01:16:53 --> 01:16:54
			medievally Islamic
		
01:16:54 --> 01:16:55
			in his formation
		
01:16:57 --> 01:16:58
			can run a modern state,
		
01:16:59 --> 01:17:00
			particularly a really
		
01:17:00 --> 01:17:03
			complicated, fractious one like Indonesia?
		
01:17:04 --> 01:17:06
			Is that possible? Do we need somebody from
		
01:17:06 --> 01:17:07
			the secular elite?
		
01:17:09 --> 01:17:10
			Kind of,
		
01:17:12 --> 01:17:13
			Benazir type
		
01:17:14 --> 01:17:16
			Megawati sometimes compared to Benazir.
		
01:17:17 --> 01:17:20
			She really didn't make a great job of
		
01:17:20 --> 01:17:21
			it. She sent the army back into Aceh
		
01:17:21 --> 01:17:23
			and there were rapes and burnings, and it
		
01:17:23 --> 01:17:26
			was quite horrible. This is what Wahid was
		
01:17:26 --> 01:17:28
			afraid of. Do we want somebody like that?
		
01:17:30 --> 01:17:32
			Journalists will go and interview Benazir Bhutto, and
		
01:17:32 --> 01:17:34
			the first 10 minutes would be talking about
		
01:17:34 --> 01:17:36
			Harrods or something.
		
01:17:36 --> 01:17:37
			Are those the appropriate people?
		
01:17:40 --> 01:17:42
			Or that Islamists
		
01:17:42 --> 01:17:43
			with their ideological
		
01:17:44 --> 01:17:45
			view of Islam as a single
		
01:17:46 --> 01:17:47
			set of simple answers
		
01:17:48 --> 01:17:51
			and the determination to use the nation state
		
01:17:51 --> 01:17:54
			as an instrument of of collective coercion,
		
01:17:54 --> 01:17:55
			a totalitarian
		
01:17:55 --> 01:17:57
			model in the kind of
		
01:17:57 --> 01:17:59
			ISIS or Taliban
		
01:17:59 --> 01:18:00
			style?
		
01:18:01 --> 01:18:02
			Or
		
01:18:02 --> 01:18:05
			should we look to see this example of
		
01:18:05 --> 01:18:06
			somebody who is unimpeachably,
		
01:18:07 --> 01:18:07
			classically
		
01:18:08 --> 01:18:10
			conservative in his training,
		
01:18:11 --> 01:18:12
			but who
		
01:18:12 --> 01:18:15
			knows a lot about the contemporary world and
		
01:18:15 --> 01:18:17
			can talk to you about Dostoevsky
		
01:18:18 --> 01:18:18
			and Marx,
		
01:18:20 --> 01:18:21
			understands his people,
		
01:18:22 --> 01:18:24
			who did it rather differently,
		
01:18:26 --> 01:18:28
			really set Indonesia up to be one of
		
01:18:28 --> 01:18:29
			the tiger economies
		
01:18:29 --> 01:18:32
			despite everything. He was the 1st democratically
		
01:18:32 --> 01:18:35
			elected president of a difficult country and,
		
01:18:36 --> 01:18:37
			managed the transition.
		
01:18:39 --> 01:18:41
			Other things that we might want to think
		
01:18:41 --> 01:18:44
			about is the kind of temperament. What what
		
01:18:44 --> 01:18:47
			sort of individual is the traditional island?
		
01:18:48 --> 01:18:50
			Well, if you have studied
		
01:18:50 --> 01:18:51
			with traditional olamat,
		
01:18:52 --> 01:18:53
			you will find
		
01:18:54 --> 01:18:55
			that they are laid back individuals,
		
01:18:58 --> 01:19:00
			that they are interested in just about everybody.
		
01:19:02 --> 01:19:03
			They want to know who you are
		
01:19:04 --> 01:19:06
			and what they can learn about you. It
		
01:19:06 --> 01:19:08
			could be this guy from Cambridge who walks
		
01:19:08 --> 01:19:11
			into Sheikha Vadani's majlis. Who's just interested?
		
01:19:12 --> 01:19:13
			Or it could be
		
01:19:15 --> 01:19:16
			a Buddhist monk
		
01:19:16 --> 01:19:18
			somewhere in Central Java.
		
01:19:19 --> 01:19:21
			Interesting. Find out about that person.
		
01:19:22 --> 01:19:25
			Don't jump into some kind of negative reflex.
		
01:19:25 --> 01:19:26
			Find out.
		
01:19:27 --> 01:19:29
			Another member of Benny Adam.
		
01:19:32 --> 01:19:33
			Humor, another thing.
		
01:19:35 --> 01:19:37
			One of the things that the traditional Olamath
		
01:19:37 --> 01:19:39
			tend to be very good at is jokes.
		
01:19:40 --> 01:19:42
			And one of the ways in which,
		
01:19:43 --> 01:19:45
			Gostor won people over was through his
		
01:19:46 --> 01:19:47
			rambunctious
		
01:19:47 --> 01:19:48
			Javanese humor.
		
01:19:50 --> 01:19:51
			One of his favorite characters from the way
		
01:19:51 --> 01:19:53
			and called it shadow puppies was Semar, who's
		
01:19:53 --> 01:19:55
			a kind of Nasseridin Hodja.
		
01:19:56 --> 01:19:56
			Holy
		
01:19:57 --> 01:19:58
			fool, who instructs through
		
01:19:59 --> 01:20:02
			rather ambiguous, sometimes risque forms of humor.
		
01:20:04 --> 01:20:08
			And again, the traditional olema very often do
		
01:20:08 --> 01:20:09
			crack jokes.
		
01:20:10 --> 01:20:11
			Certainly, I
		
01:20:12 --> 01:20:12
			I I think
		
01:20:13 --> 01:20:15
			that the time when I have laughed most
		
01:20:16 --> 01:20:18
			in my life was in the Maliki fiqh
		
01:20:18 --> 01:20:19
			classes of Sheikh Ismail
		
01:20:20 --> 01:20:22
			in Cairo, who is the imam of the
		
01:20:22 --> 01:20:22
			Azar mosque.
		
01:20:24 --> 01:20:26
			He was he was just such a brilliant
		
01:20:26 --> 01:20:29
			wit. Absolutely perfect. We were kind of
		
01:20:29 --> 01:20:30
			splitting our sides,
		
01:20:32 --> 01:20:34
			even though we were studying something about ablution
		
01:20:34 --> 01:20:36
			and he turned it into this
		
01:20:36 --> 01:20:37
			funny thing,
		
01:20:38 --> 01:20:40
			very brilliant. That's how the traditional olema are,
		
01:20:40 --> 01:20:43
			and it's important to remember that. If you
		
01:20:43 --> 01:20:46
			read books like Mohammed Jamal Zadeh's
		
01:20:47 --> 01:20:50
			book, Isfahan is Half the World, which has
		
01:20:50 --> 01:20:52
			been done into English, Isfahan, Nisfahan,
		
01:20:52 --> 01:20:55
			it was a mid-twentieth century Iranian short story
		
01:20:55 --> 01:20:56
			writer, Pre Khomeini,
		
01:20:57 --> 01:20:59
			who describes how the olamat were in his
		
01:20:59 --> 01:21:00
			childhood
		
01:21:01 --> 01:21:02
			and their their generosity,
		
01:21:03 --> 01:21:04
			their interest in people,
		
01:21:04 --> 01:21:05
			their tolerance,
		
01:21:06 --> 01:21:07
			their wit.
		
01:21:08 --> 01:21:10
			Reading that book quite reminded me of what
		
01:21:10 --> 01:21:11
			I saw in
		
01:21:12 --> 01:21:13
			in Cairo.
		
01:21:13 --> 01:21:15
			So that, I think,
		
01:21:15 --> 01:21:18
			probably helped him in his leadership skills.
		
01:21:21 --> 01:21:22
			The Natat al olamat
		
01:21:23 --> 01:21:25
			never really developed, as far as I know,
		
01:21:25 --> 01:21:26
			I don't read it in Indonesian,
		
01:21:27 --> 01:21:28
			a systematic
		
01:21:28 --> 01:21:29
			philosophical
		
01:21:29 --> 01:21:30
			or soul based
		
01:21:31 --> 01:21:34
			rejection of the idea that you can have
		
01:21:34 --> 01:21:34
			a totalitarian
		
01:21:35 --> 01:21:36
			religious state
		
01:21:37 --> 01:21:39
			using the very western idea of a nation
		
01:21:39 --> 01:21:40
			state in order to
		
01:21:41 --> 01:21:42
			enforce religion
		
01:21:43 --> 01:21:45
			rather than the traditional Muslim
		
01:21:45 --> 01:21:48
			image of a vibrant civil society with alqaf
		
01:21:48 --> 01:21:51
			and tariqas and gills that the state wouldn't
		
01:21:51 --> 01:21:52
			get involved with.
		
01:21:54 --> 01:21:56
			But there was a guy called Ahmed Sadiq
		
01:21:56 --> 01:21:58
			who was a Nader al Umar scholar
		
01:21:59 --> 01:22:00
			in the 1950s
		
01:22:00 --> 01:22:02
			who did write some interesting things about
		
01:22:03 --> 01:22:04
			how Islam is just incompatible
		
01:22:05 --> 01:22:06
			with the idea of
		
01:22:07 --> 01:22:08
			statist religion.
		
01:22:09 --> 01:22:11
			Maybe they're still working on that.
		
01:22:16 --> 01:22:18
			Yeah. In any case,
		
01:22:18 --> 01:22:20
			his legacy continues. Some of you might have
		
01:22:20 --> 01:22:22
			seen the news that on Eid al Fitr,
		
01:22:22 --> 01:22:25
			the Indonesian Air Force was active over Gaza
		
01:22:25 --> 01:22:26
			dropping aid.
		
01:22:29 --> 01:22:32
			They are working out as everybody else's, their
		
01:22:32 --> 01:22:33
			identity as Muslims into
		
01:22:34 --> 01:22:36
			complex uproar of the modern world. But it
		
01:22:36 --> 01:22:38
			seems that they have come up with a
		
01:22:39 --> 01:22:42
			viable, stable solution, unlike so many of the
		
01:22:42 --> 01:22:44
			Arab countries, which have been imploding.
		
01:22:46 --> 01:22:47
			Since Wahid
		
01:22:49 --> 01:22:51
			left the Middle East. Iraq is destroyed. Syria
		
01:22:51 --> 01:22:52
			is destroyed.
		
01:22:53 --> 01:22:55
			Yemen is destroyed. Sudan is destroyed. Libya is
		
01:22:55 --> 01:22:58
			destroyed. One country after another. Part of the
		
01:22:58 --> 01:23:00
			reason for that, only one part, is the
		
01:23:00 --> 01:23:01
			fact that there are intransigent Muslims
		
01:23:02 --> 01:23:03
			anxious about modernity,
		
01:23:04 --> 01:23:05
			insistent on
		
01:23:05 --> 01:23:07
			expressing that anxiety
		
01:23:07 --> 01:23:10
			by creating an ideological form of Islam that
		
01:23:10 --> 01:23:12
			you have to comply with or else.
		
01:23:13 --> 01:23:14
			Gusteau
		
01:23:14 --> 01:23:16
			is coming from a place that is not
		
01:23:16 --> 01:23:17
			a liberal place,
		
01:23:18 --> 01:23:21
			really Western categories such as that didn't quite
		
01:23:21 --> 01:23:21
			apply,
		
01:23:22 --> 01:23:24
			but, a place where there is,
		
01:23:25 --> 01:23:28
			a respect for the Quranic injunction that the
		
01:23:28 --> 01:23:30
			religion of Islam should be Muhammin,
		
01:23:31 --> 01:23:33
			protector of the earlier communities.
		
01:23:33 --> 01:23:36
			This idea that the difference of your tongues
		
01:23:36 --> 01:23:38
			and languages, which means cultures, I guess, is
		
01:23:38 --> 01:23:41
			a sign of god. Indonesia was a kind
		
01:23:41 --> 01:23:43
			of good testing ground for the applicability
		
01:23:43 --> 01:23:44
			of that Qur'anic
		
01:23:45 --> 01:23:46
			pluralistic vision.
		
01:23:49 --> 01:23:51
			So may Allah shower his mercy upon the
		
01:23:51 --> 01:23:53
			one who now rests in in Jombang and
		
01:23:53 --> 01:23:55
			Charlene Sparas all to go to Indonesia
		
01:23:56 --> 01:23:59
			and pray for the Indonesian people as they
		
01:23:59 --> 01:24:02
			continue this difficult journey in which they negotiate,
		
01:24:03 --> 01:24:05
			religion and modernity.