Yousuf Raza – Mental Abuse in Workplaces

Yousuf Raza
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The speakers discuss the challenges of mental health and relationships, including workplace stress and relationships with clients. They emphasize the need for a culture of entitlement and healthy behavior, particularly in small businesses. The speakers also address the prevalence of mental abuse in educational institutions and the importance of finding people with mental health issues to avoid future problems. They provide examples of negative consequences of negative reality and the need for positive roles and communication systems for employee mental health. They end by reminding employees to take care of their mental health and create a culture of cooperation and collaboration.

AI: Summary ©

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			Alright.
		
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			career prospects.
		
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			the most important sources of stress for them.
		
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			to
		
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			all
		
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			of these challenges.
		
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			It comes from the workplace and so without
		
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			addressing this, we are not addressing one of
		
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			the major causes of mental distress and so
		
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			it's about time that this is taken seriously
		
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			as well.
		
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			mental health.
		
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			relationships.
		
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			predispose.
		
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			but that as you said is not something
		
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			that we're taking under discussion today.
		
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			and across the board, it is something that
		
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			needs to be called out for what it
		
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			is.
		
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			So, it can virtually.
		
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			it's.
		
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			it's.
		
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			it's.
		
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			it's.
		
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			institutes.
		
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			I think.
		
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			audience.
		
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			Let's take it up.
		
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			Let's start with.
		
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			it's.
		
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			it's.
		
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			it's.
		
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			it's.
		
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			it's.
		
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			it's.
		
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			it's.
		
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			it's.
		
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			it's.
		
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			it's.
		
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			it's.
		
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			it's.
		
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			it's.
		
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			it's.
		
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			it's.
		
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			it's.
		
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			it's.
		
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			it's.
		
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			it's.
		
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			it's.
		
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			it's.
		
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			it's.
		
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			it's.
		
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			it's.
		
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			it's.
		
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			we both have
		
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			worked at the hospital.
		
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			it's.
		
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			it's.
		
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			it's.
		
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			it's.
		
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			it's.
		
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			it's.
		
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			it's.
		
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			it's.
		
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			it's.
		
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			it's.
		
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			it's.
		
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			it's.
		
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			it's.
		
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			it's.
		
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			it's.
		
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			it's.
		
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			an income, a stable monthly income, how that
		
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			need is exploited across the board.
		
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			The example I just gave, whether it's a
		
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			person with a learning disability, they also have
		
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			economic needs.
		
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			Their family members have economic needs.
		
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			And taking advantage of that economic need, giving
		
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			them more work at a lower wage, and
		
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			at the same time, treating them inhumanely, has
		
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			become an acceptable practice.
		
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			Absolutely, and as you said in the beginning,
		
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			it has become a norm, or it is
		
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			an accepted belief, that you cannot
		
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			make them work properly unless you treat them
		
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			harshly.
		
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			Because for them, they are just beasts.
		
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			And an employer's mentality is that, for some
		
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			odd reason, it is, they have this sense
		
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			of entitlement.
		
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			They have this superiority complex.
		
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			That the salary I give them at the
		
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			end of the month, because I give it
		
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			from my pocket, and it's my money, I
		
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			have done such a big favor on their
		
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			life, that it is as if I own
		
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			him.
		
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			And emotional abuse, physical abuse, and even sexual
		
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			abuse.
		
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			It is very common.
		
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			They're taken advantage of in many ways, and
		
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			they're never going to come out on social
		
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			media and talk about how they've been abused.
		
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			There's not going to be a hashtag MeToo
		
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			movement from that particular category of our population.
		
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			They're going to be unrepresented.
		
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			You're not gonna find NGOs standing up for
		
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			how they're manipulated, exploited.
		
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			It is something that is not even talked
		
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			of.
		
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			This is a recommended economic practice, that the
		
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			internees and your PhD students, this is cheap
		
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			labor.
		
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			You are conferring such a huge favor on
		
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			them by imparting your wisdom upon them.
		
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			This is global, this is not even just
		
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			Pakistan.
		
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			A research associate who would have cost you
		
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			thousands and thousands of dollars.
		
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			A PhD intern is going to cost you
		
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			much less.
		
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			So you get so much done for such
		
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			little cost.
		
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			It's a win-win situation.
		
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			Corporate sectors.
		
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			And the mentality is the same, right?
		
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			When you go to medical school or any
		
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			hostel environment, you're a first-year student, the
		
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			way the seniors rag you and then justify
		
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			that as a favor that they are doing
		
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			to you.
		
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			That we're teaching you this, we're teaching you
		
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			to be socially mature, and we're developing your
		
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			resilience.
		
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			There's a lot more to come for you
		
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			in life.
		
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			So even in, as there, very bluntly or
		
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			blatantly, that empty rationalization comes up with all
		
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			its nakedness.
		
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			And the justification the corporate sector is giving,
		
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			or some other sector is giving, not very
		
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			long ago, the house officer, he was given
		
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			this justification for hardly 5,000 to 6
		
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			,000 rupees a month.
		
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			If at all, there would be a lot
		
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			of people who would be unpaid, right?
		
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			And every other day, call, and every other
		
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			day, getting humiliated was a part of the
		
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			house job package.
		
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			So it was, again, a sense of entitlement
		
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			of the employers or the bosses and the
		
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			exploitation that resulted.
		
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			And after all this, whatever we just talked
		
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			about, even after all this, if I talk
		
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			about that small business, if something goes wrong
		
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			there, if there's a theft or a problem,
		
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			then the first person to be suspected would
		
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			be the employee or the employee himself.
		
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			That he must have done something wrong.
		
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			And this is something, you don't even have
		
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			to go to the small businesses, which in
		
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			our homes, the domestic help that we have,
		
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			we must have forgotten our wallet, keys, watch,
		
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			phone, in front and behind.
		
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			Before we are going to look at where
		
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			we may have misplaced it, the automatic thought
		
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			in our head, which then finds verbalization in
		
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			our tongue, and then accusation, or, you people
		
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			are always like this, et cetera, et cetera.
		
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			It is a given, that this is what
		
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			this group does, and this is how we
		
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			are supposed to treat them and talk to
		
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			them.
		
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			And this doesn't mean that we should not
		
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			be vigilant.
		
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			Yes, we should definitely be vigilant, but accusing
		
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			someone else and abusing them on this matter,
		
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			that should be the last option.
		
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			First, you have to see everything with complete
		
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			satisfaction, and first of all, ask your small
		
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			children at home.
		
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			This happens a lot in our homes.
		
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			These children leave something behind, and then the
		
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			first thought that comes to mind is this.
		
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			So, Yusuf, that was about small businesses.
		
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			Now, what would you say about educational
		
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			and health institutes?
		
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			Let's start with health first.
		
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			I don't have any other words to say
		
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			it, which is like a dog with the
		
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			house officers.
		
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			And supposedly, that is supposed to make them
		
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			a better doctor.
		
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			I can say this without any hesitation, that
		
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			first-time manifestation of depression and anxiety amongst
		
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			our profession is for a lot of people
		
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			in that house job period.
		
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			Utterly inhumane working hours.
		
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			Utterly inhumane working hours.
		
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			And after those working hours, it is assumed
		
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			that you are then going to stand up
		
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			to abuse.
		
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			And the one at the bottom of the
		
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			food chain is the house officer.
		
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			The PGT or the medical officer are supposed
		
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			to take the house officer for a ride,
		
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			use them as a mob to clean the
		
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			floor with them.
		
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			And the SR is going to treat them
		
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			the same way, the professors, assistant professors.
		
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			The target for their abuse is automatically the
		
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			house officer.
		
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			If there is an odd hour, then everyone
		
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			can go on leave.
		
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			There is no question that the professor can
		
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			be seen in the hospital at any odd
		
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			hour.
		
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			It is unimaginable that the assistant professor would
		
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			be there.
		
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			Maybe you will find an SR at some
		
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			point, but most of the time, you won't.
		
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			And then the PGT or the medical officer
		
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			will also be missing in a lot of
		
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			wards.
		
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			But the house officer can't go anywhere.
		
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			Whether it is the first day or the
		
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			third month, it doesn't matter.
		
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			He has to be there and pretend like
		
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			he is everything.
		
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			And then when they screw up, they are
		
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			held responsible.
		
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			And the guilt that they carry with them,
		
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			that how many lies of their hierarchy we
		
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			have to hide, how many cover-ups we
		
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			have to hide, the corruption we have done
		
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			with the patients, we don't even know what
		
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			we have written, whether we have managed the
		
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			medicines, they carry all that with them.
		
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			That they have to do their medical practice.
		
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			In the future, they are going to become
		
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			physicians and they will be responsible for lives.
		
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			Those habits are being ingrained.
		
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			After these house officers, we see this very
		
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			often.
		
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			The supervisor and the professor dare to teach
		
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			a word in 4 years.
		
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			And when they come to insult PGT, it
		
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			happens like this, like they own them.
		
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			That we have raised you with care.
		
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			That you knew how to speak Chochi, we
		
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			taught you how to speak Roti.
		
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			These are hyper-critical kinds of supervisors.
		
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			They presented a case
		
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			in front of a single supervisor.
		
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			And the next one criticized, the supervisor started
		
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			scolding, he did this wrong, he did that
		
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			wrong, he did this wrong, he did that
		
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			wrong.
		
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			He wrote down all those mistakes.
		
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			The next day, a week passed, two weeks
		
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			passed.
		
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			He presented the same case again.
		
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			As a different identity.
		
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			The details were exactly the same as what
		
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			the supervisor had told you.
		
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			Am I back?
		
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			So when that presentation was made, the supervisor
		
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			insulted again.
		
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			And started insulting their own suggestions and their
		
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			own suggestions.
		
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			These can only be good doctors when we
		
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			insult them in their uselessness.
		
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			When we abuse them in their uselessness.
		
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			And for the most part, their own incompetence
		
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			is behind it.
		
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			They got nothing going as far as their
		
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			own profession is concerned.
		
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			Their diagnosis and nothing intelligent can be said
		
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			about it.
		
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			So the only logic is to come down
		
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			heavy on them.
		
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			Institutes of course, biology, physics, chemistry, this is
		
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			the story of every institute.
		
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			Any senior, he likes to, I don't know
		
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			whether he likes or it's just his personality.
		
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			There are insecurities.
		
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			Those insecurities cannot be dispelled without establishing themselves
		
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			in any other way.
		
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			They have failed at so many levels in
		
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			their lives that until they insult a junior,
		
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			they don't realize their superiority or achievement.
		
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			There is no other way to make them
		
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			laugh and assert their own importance.
		
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			That's how it ends up going.
		
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			And Yusuf, is there any other type of
		
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			mental abuse in educational institutes?
		
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			Other than this, from colleagues or peers?
		
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			Definitely.
		
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			Again, it's not just the employers or the
		
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			people who are supervising or in charge.
		
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			Immediately seniors are there.
		
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			A colleague who is better off perhaps or
		
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			a colleague, maybe even be a junior, who
		
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			has mastered the art of deception.
		
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			How to take a risk, how to take
		
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			advantage of others' honesty, how to cut corners.
		
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			All of that would then boil down to
		
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			whether he saw the unique principle of the
		
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			school of love and he didn't get a
		
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			break because he memorized the lesson.
		
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			So, a person who memorizes the lesson is
		
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			always treated badly.
		
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			Even juniors don't let him go.
		
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			This ends up becoming a work ethic.
		
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			Quite honestly, I have a very painful example
		
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			in mind.
		
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			One of our colleagues, a very dear friend,
		
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			who went through incredible pains to become a
		
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			doctor, go through all the levels of training,
		
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			but the sheer incompetence of colleagues, the sheer
		
00:24:19 --> 00:24:28
			ignorance of the supervisors meant that the
		
00:24:28 --> 00:24:34
			overwork led to mistakes taking place and then
		
00:24:34 --> 00:24:38
			no proper way of handling how to deal
		
00:24:38 --> 00:24:39
			with that mistake.
		
00:24:39 --> 00:24:44
			It meant that he or she said goodbye
		
00:24:44 --> 00:24:45
			to the career altogether.
		
00:24:47 --> 00:24:54
			Almost to the end of their career path,
		
00:24:54 --> 00:24:58
			at the end of their consultancy, but because
		
00:24:58 --> 00:25:01
			colleagues and supervisors were completely ignorant of their
		
00:25:01 --> 00:25:04
			mental health needs, they had to say goodbye
		
00:25:04 --> 00:25:07
			to their entire career to deal with their
		
00:25:07 --> 00:25:09
			guilt.
		
00:25:11 --> 00:25:14
			That's a tragedy that is becoming more and
		
00:25:14 --> 00:25:15
			more common.
		
00:25:19 --> 00:25:23
			Yusuf, do you recall a survey that came
		
00:25:23 --> 00:25:27
			out before COVID and it showed that among
		
00:25:27 --> 00:25:32
			all the professionals in the US, PhD students
		
00:25:32 --> 00:25:40
			have the most incidence of depression and anxiety.
		
00:25:41 --> 00:25:42
			There you go.
		
00:25:43 --> 00:25:46
			This is something that is becoming more and
		
00:25:46 --> 00:25:50
			more common that people in the US, and
		
00:25:50 --> 00:25:52
			we know how sought after a residency in
		
00:25:52 --> 00:25:55
			the US is, but more and more physicians
		
00:25:55 --> 00:26:00
			in the US, their dream is to give
		
00:26:00 --> 00:26:03
			up their career in medicine and enjoy an
		
00:26:03 --> 00:26:07
			early retirement, or they're more and more looking
		
00:26:07 --> 00:26:12
			for an exit from the health care institution
		
00:26:12 --> 00:26:13
			that they're part of.
		
00:26:14 --> 00:26:15
			We are very fast in rubbing our government
		
00:26:15 --> 00:26:21
			institutions or government hospitals, but we don't realize
		
00:26:21 --> 00:26:24
			that this culture is becoming more and more
		
00:26:24 --> 00:26:26
			common around the world.
		
00:26:27 --> 00:26:35
			This economic exploitation, because of another person's economic
		
00:26:35 --> 00:26:38
			needs, has gone to such an extent that
		
00:26:38 --> 00:26:41
			it's becoming unbearable.
		
00:26:41 --> 00:26:43
			Less and less people want to do jobs,
		
00:26:43 --> 00:26:46
			and more and more people are startups, and
		
00:26:46 --> 00:26:48
			let's do my own work and freelancing.
		
00:26:49 --> 00:26:50
			This culture is becoming common.
		
00:26:52 --> 00:27:00
			But Yusuf, this thing is not available to
		
00:27:00 --> 00:27:00
			everyone.
		
00:27:02 --> 00:27:07
			Most of the time, the only advice any
		
00:27:07 --> 00:27:12
			such person will get is to spend your
		
00:27:12 --> 00:27:15
			time, bear it, and just pass it on.
		
00:27:16 --> 00:27:17
			Don't complain to anyone.
		
00:27:17 --> 00:27:27
			And this kind of abuse, if we
		
00:27:27 --> 00:27:30
			look at it, it's common in places where
		
00:27:30 --> 00:27:35
			the abuser knows that the complaint won't be
		
00:27:35 --> 00:27:36
			made, and if it's made, it won't be
		
00:27:36 --> 00:27:37
			of any use.
		
00:27:39 --> 00:27:40
			It's exactly like that.
		
00:27:40 --> 00:27:49
			The whole system doesn't accommodate any kind of
		
00:27:49 --> 00:27:53
			feedback from the people lower down in the
		
00:27:53 --> 00:27:54
			food chain.
		
00:27:56 --> 00:28:01
			We know from these institutions, after becoming a
		
00:28:01 --> 00:28:06
			consultant, after specializing in psychiatry, I got a
		
00:28:06 --> 00:28:08
			chance to work at Yusra Medical College, the
		
00:28:08 --> 00:28:10
			infamous Yusra Medical College.
		
00:28:11 --> 00:28:12
			I worked there for 4-5 months.
		
00:28:13 --> 00:28:14
			I got a month's salary.
		
00:28:14 --> 00:28:16
			I didn't get a 3-month salary yet.
		
00:28:16 --> 00:28:17
			Cases are still going on.
		
00:28:18 --> 00:28:20
			When people who were working over there before
		
00:28:20 --> 00:28:22
			me, for 6-7 months, there was no
		
00:28:22 --> 00:28:22
			pay.
		
00:28:22 --> 00:28:23
			I went to Rawal.
		
00:28:23 --> 00:28:25
			Same story, same story.
		
00:28:25 --> 00:28:27
			Don't give salaries to private medical colleges and
		
00:28:27 --> 00:28:28
			hospitals.
		
00:28:29 --> 00:28:33
			Don't give salaries to the drivers, the workers,
		
00:28:33 --> 00:28:36
			the sweepers, the janitors.
		
00:28:37 --> 00:28:38
			No, nurses, nothing.
		
00:28:39 --> 00:28:40
			And people are dying.
		
00:28:40 --> 00:28:44
			Literally, people died because more and more nurses
		
00:28:44 --> 00:28:46
			had resigned.
		
00:28:46 --> 00:28:48
			And there wasn't enough staff to manage the
		
00:28:48 --> 00:28:49
			ward.
		
00:28:50 --> 00:28:53
			And they're still in the hospital.
		
00:28:54 --> 00:28:55
			And it's going on.
		
00:28:55 --> 00:29:01
			The owners are establishing new businesses and their
		
00:29:01 --> 00:29:04
			employees are not even getting their basic pay.
		
00:29:05 --> 00:29:07
			Well, it's an abuse, that you're giving them
		
00:29:07 --> 00:29:10
			pay and then humiliating them.
		
00:29:11 --> 00:29:13
			They're not even giving them pay.
		
00:29:13 --> 00:29:14
			They say, if you want to leave, go.
		
00:29:15 --> 00:29:20
			And there's not that much employment opportunities for
		
00:29:20 --> 00:29:22
			fresh consultants.
		
00:29:22 --> 00:29:24
			And this exploitation continues.
		
00:29:24 --> 00:29:26
			The exploitation continues.
		
00:29:27 --> 00:29:28
			And the courts have nothing to do.
		
00:29:28 --> 00:29:30
			Yusra's case is still going on.
		
00:29:30 --> 00:29:31
			No one got a single penny.
		
00:29:32 --> 00:29:35
			There's absolutely nothing that anyone can do.
		
00:29:36 --> 00:29:37
			It is a joke.
		
00:29:41 --> 00:29:46
			One more thing, one more type of exploitation
		
00:29:46 --> 00:29:53
			that we see, yes, the employee has been
		
00:29:53 --> 00:29:56
			paid adequate amount of money.
		
00:29:56 --> 00:29:57
			His work environment is good.
		
00:29:58 --> 00:29:59
			He's doing a good job.
		
00:30:00 --> 00:30:01
			He doesn't have a name.
		
00:30:03 --> 00:30:08
			But he's not given the appreciation that he
		
00:30:08 --> 00:30:08
			deserves.
		
00:30:09 --> 00:30:15
			And no matter how hard he works, either
		
00:30:15 --> 00:30:18
			he has an indifference attitude towards it, in
		
00:30:18 --> 00:30:24
			good circumstances, or at worst, even on minor
		
00:30:24 --> 00:30:28
			mistakes, he is called bad.
		
00:30:31 --> 00:30:37
			For some reason, it has become a standard
		
00:30:37 --> 00:30:39
			parenting practice, right?
		
00:30:39 --> 00:30:42
			That we have learned a little bit of
		
00:30:42 --> 00:30:44
			carrot and stick from behaviorism.
		
00:30:45 --> 00:30:45
			Okay.
		
00:30:46 --> 00:30:48
			We don't have to learn his own problems.
		
00:30:49 --> 00:30:51
			The behaviorists themselves don't believe in them.
		
00:30:51 --> 00:30:53
			But we don't have to forget that carrot
		
00:30:53 --> 00:30:54
			and stick.
		
00:30:55 --> 00:30:56
			And we don't have to lift the carrot
		
00:30:56 --> 00:30:57
			in it either.
		
00:30:57 --> 00:31:00
			Which is fun to exercise the stick.
		
00:31:01 --> 00:31:03
			And then, sir, if you show them the
		
00:31:03 --> 00:31:06
			carrot, don't go crazy.
		
00:31:07 --> 00:31:08
			Don't get on their nerves.
		
00:31:09 --> 00:31:10
			This is their cure.
		
00:31:11 --> 00:31:15
			I mean, literally, it has become a standard
		
00:31:15 --> 00:31:17
			practice that these are the ghosts of sticks.
		
00:31:18 --> 00:31:20
			And Azam, I think, before we move on,
		
00:31:20 --> 00:31:22
			I really want to share this comment that
		
00:31:22 --> 00:31:25
			Afifa has put down there, that in government
		
00:31:25 --> 00:31:31
			education departments, especially the people with disabilities, teachers
		
00:31:31 --> 00:31:34
			with disabilities, what happens to them?
		
00:31:35 --> 00:31:38
			So there is this government education department calling
		
00:31:38 --> 00:31:39
			a meeting of a group of teachers with
		
00:31:39 --> 00:31:42
			disabilities appointed after going through proper process of
		
00:31:42 --> 00:31:44
			taking exams and interviews.
		
00:31:44 --> 00:31:50
			And the district commissioner told them, You should
		
00:31:50 --> 00:31:52
			be very grateful to the department.
		
00:31:52 --> 00:31:55
			Now, don't ever come to us with any
		
00:31:55 --> 00:31:59
			complaints or we won't hire people like you
		
00:31:59 --> 00:32:01
			in the future ever again.
		
00:32:03 --> 00:32:06
			So, Yusuf, if you look at this comment,
		
00:32:06 --> 00:32:12
			it is not only that the person is
		
00:32:12 --> 00:32:15
			not ready to accept human dignity.
		
00:32:16 --> 00:32:22
			The person is saying all this like that's
		
00:32:22 --> 00:32:24
			his own personal firm, that it is his
		
00:32:24 --> 00:32:25
			own private firm.
		
00:32:26 --> 00:32:35
			So, he is using, he is
		
00:32:36 --> 00:32:39
			behaving in such a way that whatever is
		
00:32:39 --> 00:32:43
			happening with public money, and those people who
		
00:32:43 --> 00:32:45
			have come to merit, like in this comment,
		
00:32:46 --> 00:32:48
			everything was examined, everything, and in giving them
		
00:32:48 --> 00:32:53
			too, he is showing, as there is a
		
00:32:53 --> 00:32:55
			comment now, so much shamelessness.
		
00:32:56 --> 00:33:01
			That I have done you a favor.
		
00:33:03 --> 00:33:08
			Just imagine that he did this to a
		
00:33:08 --> 00:33:09
			stranger.
		
00:33:10 --> 00:33:13
			But imagine that if this is the state
		
00:33:13 --> 00:33:16
			of his personal values, then what he must
		
00:33:16 --> 00:33:19
			be doing with his children, his spouse, his
		
00:33:19 --> 00:33:20
			parents, etc.
		
00:33:20 --> 00:33:25
			You see, again, this ties in with what
		
00:33:25 --> 00:33:29
			we had discussed with Dr. Junaid in the
		
00:33:29 --> 00:33:33
			last episode, that our education system has evolved
		
00:33:33 --> 00:33:36
			in such a way, and these institutions have
		
00:33:36 --> 00:33:39
			evolved in such a way, that these idiots,
		
00:33:40 --> 00:33:46
			these lowlifes, who are barely worthy of being
		
00:33:46 --> 00:33:48
			called humans, they are in positions of authority.
		
00:33:49 --> 00:33:52
			And they are coming in positions of authority
		
00:33:52 --> 00:33:58
			and talking like this, and literally no one
		
00:33:58 --> 00:33:59
			is going to ask them.
		
00:34:00 --> 00:34:03
			That you have literally, practically what you are
		
00:34:03 --> 00:34:05
			saying is, that you do not belong to
		
00:34:05 --> 00:34:07
			the level of humanity.
		
00:34:08 --> 00:34:14
			We have allowed you to eat at the
		
00:34:14 --> 00:34:14
			table with humans.
		
00:34:14 --> 00:34:18
			We have done you a great favor.
		
00:34:19 --> 00:34:21
			Now don't you dare do anything else.
		
00:34:21 --> 00:34:23
			Don't you dare open that.
		
00:34:23 --> 00:34:24
			I mean, what?
		
00:34:25 --> 00:34:29
			Like, how does this, how do people like
		
00:34:29 --> 00:34:33
			this make it to these positions of authority,
		
00:34:33 --> 00:34:38
			if not through an inherently corrupt and morally
		
00:34:38 --> 00:34:45
			perverse system, that they can't even look at
		
00:34:45 --> 00:34:48
			the other as a human being.
		
00:34:48 --> 00:34:51
			And like you said, that's probably manifest in
		
00:34:51 --> 00:34:56
			how they interact with those, these are the
		
00:34:56 --> 00:35:00
			people whose spouses and children they end up
		
00:35:00 --> 00:35:04
			in looking for psychological help and support.
		
00:35:04 --> 00:35:06
			That father is like this.
		
00:35:06 --> 00:35:08
			And they themselves get confused.
		
00:35:08 --> 00:35:10
			They have love for their father and their
		
00:35:10 --> 00:35:14
			father is also so bad, so they don't
		
00:35:14 --> 00:35:15
			have a choice.
		
00:35:16 --> 00:35:19
			And you and I have heard this sentence
		
00:35:19 --> 00:35:22
			many times, that my father is not worthy
		
00:35:22 --> 00:35:24
			of being called a father, but he is
		
00:35:24 --> 00:35:25
			my father.
		
00:35:27 --> 00:35:30
			And they are never going to seek help.
		
00:35:31 --> 00:35:32
			They are never going to seek help.
		
00:35:32 --> 00:35:35
			Because of them, 50 more people will need
		
00:35:35 --> 00:35:37
			mental health professionals.
		
00:35:38 --> 00:35:42
			These Nawabzadeh will never be ready to believe
		
00:35:42 --> 00:35:46
			that there may be something wrong with them.
		
00:35:46 --> 00:35:47
			And this is happening and this is happening
		
00:35:47 --> 00:35:48
			and no one is going to ask them.
		
00:35:50 --> 00:35:52
			This is not even a real problem for
		
00:35:52 --> 00:35:52
			most people.
		
00:35:55 --> 00:35:58
			Yusuf, what about the corporate sector?
		
00:35:58 --> 00:36:05
			I have heard that they have modeled their
		
00:36:05 --> 00:36:08
			companies even in Pakistan on the best of
		
00:36:08 --> 00:36:09
			the best.
		
00:36:09 --> 00:36:15
			They have modeled their SOPs, their mechanisms like
		
00:36:15 --> 00:36:19
			Apple and Microsoft, the best companies, the best
		
00:36:19 --> 00:36:24
			psychologists have helped them to develop their mechanisms.
		
00:36:24 --> 00:36:27
			So in the corporate sector, and they also
		
00:36:27 --> 00:36:31
			pay well, their offices are very good, they
		
00:36:31 --> 00:36:32
			have AC installed, no one talks to anyone
		
00:36:32 --> 00:36:33
			rudely.
		
00:36:36 --> 00:36:38
			Normally, there will be such people there too,
		
00:36:38 --> 00:36:41
			but few people get to hear these things
		
00:36:41 --> 00:36:45
			there, that someone abuses someone or abuses someone
		
00:36:45 --> 00:36:46
			physically.
		
00:36:47 --> 00:36:47
			So what is the problem in the corporate
		
00:36:47 --> 00:36:48
			sector?
		
00:36:50 --> 00:36:56
			Look, if there were no problems in the
		
00:36:56 --> 00:37:00
			corporate sector, then Apple companies would not be
		
00:37:00 --> 00:37:02
			setting up suicide nets.
		
00:37:04 --> 00:37:09
			Our employees jump out of the window.
		
00:37:12 --> 00:37:16
			Literally, they have installed suicide nets to prevent
		
00:37:16 --> 00:37:18
			people from jumping out of the window.
		
00:37:21 --> 00:37:26
			And in Amazon warehouses, in their cubicles, people
		
00:37:26 --> 00:37:30
			are walking around with urine bottles, that we
		
00:37:30 --> 00:37:32
			do not have so much time that we
		
00:37:32 --> 00:37:35
			can get up and use the washroom, we
		
00:37:35 --> 00:37:36
			get free in this bottle.
		
00:37:37 --> 00:37:41
			If this level of abuse is happening in
		
00:37:41 --> 00:37:45
			the best of the best, then their third
		
00:37:45 --> 00:37:50
			-rate imitations are here, their fake photocopies are
		
00:37:50 --> 00:37:54
			here, will there be a better environment than
		
00:37:54 --> 00:37:54
			this?
		
00:37:55 --> 00:38:03
			The entire setup is modeled after more and
		
00:38:03 --> 00:38:13
			more economic gain, standardization, and profits determine
		
00:38:13 --> 00:38:14
			everything.
		
00:38:15 --> 00:38:23
			And in that, human value, human dignity, their
		
00:38:23 --> 00:38:28
			mental health needs, all these things are important
		
00:38:28 --> 00:38:32
			until they are in sync with our financial
		
00:38:32 --> 00:38:33
			goals.
		
00:38:34 --> 00:38:40
			When their synchrony is out, throw them out.
		
00:38:43 --> 00:38:48
			Yusuf, any such company that has invested a
		
00:38:48 --> 00:38:53
			huge sum of capital, they don't have to
		
00:38:53 --> 00:38:59
			think that the company has to secure and
		
00:38:59 --> 00:39:02
			also multiply its capital.
		
00:39:03 --> 00:39:08
			So why should they worry about a person
		
00:39:08 --> 00:39:12
			who can be replaced by someone more efficient?
		
00:39:14 --> 00:39:17
			If someone has a mental health issue, he
		
00:39:17 --> 00:39:20
			should go, he should resign, he should go
		
00:39:20 --> 00:39:24
			and solve his problem, because the company is
		
00:39:24 --> 00:39:24
			only interested in its profits.
		
00:39:27 --> 00:39:27
			Absolutely right.
		
00:39:28 --> 00:39:34
			See, this attitude, in the short term, it
		
00:39:34 --> 00:39:37
			feels very good that we are not doing
		
00:39:37 --> 00:39:40
			this, whatever the problem is, physical health problem,
		
00:39:40 --> 00:39:43
			mental health problem, there is a problem at
		
00:39:43 --> 00:39:45
			home, whatever the problem is, it doesn't matter,
		
00:39:45 --> 00:39:47
			if it doesn't work, replace it, keep someone
		
00:39:47 --> 00:39:48
			else in its place.
		
00:39:49 --> 00:39:52
			How long are you going to continue this
		
00:39:52 --> 00:39:52
			for?
		
00:39:53 --> 00:39:55
			And whoever does not have a problem now,
		
00:39:55 --> 00:39:59
			every company knows that the employee who has
		
00:39:59 --> 00:40:01
			been with you for a long time, he
		
00:40:01 --> 00:40:05
			has recognized all your systems, he knows the
		
00:40:05 --> 00:40:08
			ins and outs and the productivity that that
		
00:40:08 --> 00:40:11
			long-standing employee can give you, others cannot.
		
00:40:11 --> 00:40:14
			He must also have mental health issues.
		
00:40:15 --> 00:40:17
			So when he has spent 5-6 years
		
00:40:17 --> 00:40:20
			and there is a breakdown, you are going
		
00:40:20 --> 00:40:24
			to replace him without batting an eye?
		
00:40:24 --> 00:40:27
			How long is this going to continue?
		
00:40:27 --> 00:40:29
			How many people are you going to replace?
		
00:40:30 --> 00:40:33
			How far can you take a dehumanized force?
		
00:40:33 --> 00:40:35
			How far can you take it?
		
00:40:37 --> 00:40:40
			And the problem is not that when they
		
00:40:40 --> 00:40:42
			break down, then the problem comes.
		
00:40:42 --> 00:40:46
			It's building up, it's building up, that negativity,
		
00:40:47 --> 00:40:53
			that toxicity is, it becomes a culture, the
		
00:40:53 --> 00:40:55
			way people talk to each other, seniors to
		
00:40:55 --> 00:40:59
			juniors, juniors to seniors, and the only way
		
00:40:59 --> 00:41:02
			to get rid of it is to get
		
00:41:02 --> 00:41:04
			rid of everyone and start from scratch.
		
00:41:05 --> 00:41:07
			But if you want to start from scratch
		
00:41:07 --> 00:41:09
			on the same principles, then the work is
		
00:41:09 --> 00:41:09
			done.
		
00:41:09 --> 00:41:14
			Then the same profits of which you had
		
00:41:14 --> 00:41:17
			so much pride or whose you had so
		
00:41:17 --> 00:41:20
			much desperation, they will suffer and they are
		
00:41:20 --> 00:41:20
			suffering.
		
00:41:21 --> 00:41:23
			The companies are coming to realize that this
		
00:41:23 --> 00:41:24
			doesn't work anymore.
		
00:41:26 --> 00:41:30
			So Yusuf and this can also be a
		
00:41:30 --> 00:41:35
			way to see that if our whole society
		
00:41:35 --> 00:41:39
			starts working in this way, that we see
		
00:41:39 --> 00:41:43
			our every relationship in terms of transactions or
		
00:41:43 --> 00:41:48
			in terms of efficiency, then what will be
		
00:41:48 --> 00:41:51
			the overall difference in society?
		
00:41:54 --> 00:42:00
			We're looking at replaceable, disposable, dehumanized commodities.
		
00:42:01 --> 00:42:04
			We're looking at, we're not looking at a
		
00:42:04 --> 00:42:06
			human society anymore.
		
00:42:07 --> 00:42:08
			We're operating with zombies.
		
00:42:10 --> 00:42:12
			And humans are not zombies.
		
00:42:12 --> 00:42:15
			When you replace them, you do injustice to
		
00:42:15 --> 00:42:19
			them, you do cruelty to them, it hurts
		
00:42:19 --> 00:42:20
			him here.
		
00:42:20 --> 00:42:24
			And he or she carries that in their
		
00:42:24 --> 00:42:25
			hearts.
		
00:42:25 --> 00:42:30
			And that resentment, that resentment is, it's going
		
00:42:30 --> 00:42:33
			to find expression one way or the other.
		
00:42:34 --> 00:42:37
			Injustice is going to breed injustice.
		
00:42:38 --> 00:42:39
			They will do this with the next one.
		
00:42:40 --> 00:42:42
			And you are also giving the other person
		
00:42:42 --> 00:42:45
			the right to do the same with you.
		
00:42:46 --> 00:42:50
			Absolutely, whenever he gets a chance, whenever he
		
00:42:50 --> 00:42:53
			gets a chance, he's not going to let
		
00:42:53 --> 00:42:53
			it go.
		
00:42:54 --> 00:42:56
			He's not going to let it go.
		
00:42:56 --> 00:43:00
			And ironically, in such a society, with such
		
00:43:00 --> 00:43:10
			injustices, decency, virtue, the admonition of honesty,
		
00:43:10 --> 00:43:14
			and preaching, makes this injustice even worse.
		
00:43:14 --> 00:43:16
			That you have to be quiet.
		
00:43:16 --> 00:43:18
			You don't have to say anything in front
		
00:43:18 --> 00:43:19
			of him.
		
00:43:19 --> 00:43:21
			You don't have to do anything in front
		
00:43:21 --> 00:43:21
			of him.
		
00:43:22 --> 00:43:24
			Be thankful that he's wearing one shoe, not
		
00:43:24 --> 00:43:24
			two.
		
00:43:25 --> 00:43:27
			Eat one and move on.
		
00:43:27 --> 00:43:30
			And what Bilal Bhai has said here, the
		
00:43:30 --> 00:43:33
			comment that Amit Bilal just shared, that if
		
00:43:33 --> 00:43:38
			this type of rude behavior, treating employees, it'll
		
00:43:38 --> 00:43:39
			trickle down.
		
00:43:39 --> 00:43:42
			The seniors will then treat their juniors that
		
00:43:42 --> 00:43:42
			way.
		
00:43:42 --> 00:43:44
			The juniors, they're going to treat their children
		
00:43:44 --> 00:43:45
			that way.
		
00:43:45 --> 00:43:46
			They're going to go home.
		
00:43:46 --> 00:43:48
			If they don't find anyone else, they're going
		
00:43:48 --> 00:43:49
			to treat their...
		
00:43:49 --> 00:43:51
			The hotel where they're sitting, they're going to
		
00:43:51 --> 00:43:54
			treat them that way.
		
00:43:55 --> 00:43:56
			It is going to continue.
		
00:43:57 --> 00:43:59
			It is going to breed more exploitation.
		
00:44:02 --> 00:44:11
			And in the long term, that company's...
		
00:44:11 --> 00:44:12
			If we look at it purely from an
		
00:44:12 --> 00:44:18
			economic point of view, no company can survive
		
00:44:18 --> 00:44:22
			that reputation in the long term.
		
00:44:23 --> 00:44:23
			That's right.
		
00:44:23 --> 00:44:25
			They're not going to be able to survive
		
00:44:25 --> 00:44:27
			that reputation.
		
00:44:27 --> 00:44:33
			Apart from that, their workforce, their creative potential,
		
00:44:34 --> 00:44:37
			that uniqueness and novelty can bring it into
		
00:44:37 --> 00:44:39
			your operations.
		
00:44:39 --> 00:44:41
			It can bring it into your products.
		
00:44:41 --> 00:44:43
			It can bring it into your services.
		
00:44:44 --> 00:44:45
			You're not giving it space.
		
00:44:45 --> 00:44:47
			You're not giving it a chance.
		
00:44:48 --> 00:44:49
			You've crushed their humanity.
		
00:44:50 --> 00:44:51
			You've crushed their uniqueness.
		
00:44:52 --> 00:44:55
			You've defined their targets very concretely.
		
00:44:56 --> 00:45:02
			So when you talk about this, how they
		
00:45:02 --> 00:45:07
			can represent the public that you're dealing with,
		
00:45:07 --> 00:45:08
			you've destroyed their space.
		
00:45:10 --> 00:45:11
			And I think...
		
00:45:11 --> 00:45:16
			Are you saying that if we...
		
00:45:16 --> 00:45:20
			If we define such strict and concrete targets,
		
00:45:22 --> 00:45:24
			and we create a hurdle for our employees'
		
00:45:24 --> 00:45:31
			uniqueness, individuality, and creativity, we create a hurdle
		
00:45:31 --> 00:45:34
			for them, those concrete targets.
		
00:45:34 --> 00:45:42
			So can we say that that company can
		
00:45:42 --> 00:45:48
			suffer so much that now it is being
		
00:45:48 --> 00:45:51
			run only by a single person.
		
00:45:51 --> 00:45:54
			So if he fails, everything fails.
		
00:45:55 --> 00:45:55
			Precisely.
		
00:45:56 --> 00:46:03
			And this monarchy, this capitalist kind of monarchy,
		
00:46:03 --> 00:46:05
			this is destructive.
		
00:46:06 --> 00:46:09
			And the more it disguises itself in...
		
00:46:11 --> 00:46:13
			It disguises itself...
		
00:46:13 --> 00:46:15
			We involve everyone in everything.
		
00:46:15 --> 00:46:16
			We do this, we do that.
		
00:46:17 --> 00:46:18
			We don't do anything.
		
00:46:19 --> 00:46:21
			These are more subtle forms of...
		
00:46:21 --> 00:46:24
			Like you said, there are ACs installed there,
		
00:46:24 --> 00:46:27
			the offices are so grand, they're open, there's
		
00:46:27 --> 00:46:28
			a way, everyone wears a tie.
		
00:46:29 --> 00:46:32
			And they have such a good manner of
		
00:46:32 --> 00:46:32
			talking to each other.
		
00:46:33 --> 00:46:37
			These are breeding grounds for the more subtle,
		
00:46:38 --> 00:46:43
			the more insidious, and the more evil manifestations
		
00:46:43 --> 00:46:49
			of exploitation through precisely this mechanism of dehumanization.
		
00:46:49 --> 00:46:53
			And we know that in the past few
		
00:46:53 --> 00:46:57
			years, there have been many such studies how
		
00:46:57 --> 00:47:01
			the corporate sector is the new breeding ground
		
00:47:01 --> 00:47:02
			of psychopaths.
		
00:47:03 --> 00:47:04
			There you go.
		
00:47:04 --> 00:47:06
			And more and more people.
		
00:47:06 --> 00:47:07
			This is...
		
00:47:07 --> 00:47:08
			I don't know.
		
00:47:09 --> 00:47:10
			We don't even know about economics.
		
00:47:12 --> 00:47:17
			But the culture that has developed for people
		
00:47:17 --> 00:47:25
			to shift from serving industry, serving offices, institutes,
		
00:47:25 --> 00:47:31
			government, public, corporate, to developing their own startups.
		
00:47:32 --> 00:47:36
			This startup culture, as lucrative as it may
		
00:47:36 --> 00:47:39
			seem, in the long run for the society,
		
00:47:40 --> 00:47:45
			how can you even sustain all these startups?
		
00:47:46 --> 00:47:47
			Why don't you do the rest in an
		
00:47:47 --> 00:47:48
			organized setup?
		
00:47:51 --> 00:47:53
			They're being pushed out.
		
00:47:54 --> 00:47:58
			Yusuf, what we talked about last time, that
		
00:47:58 --> 00:48:02
			whatever we do, whatever we learn, whatever we
		
00:48:02 --> 00:48:07
			study, our identities are also developing.
		
00:48:08 --> 00:48:12
			So we should also think about what form
		
00:48:12 --> 00:48:16
			of identities will these startups form in the
		
00:48:16 --> 00:48:17
			coming 2-3 decades?
		
00:48:19 --> 00:48:23
			Highly individualistic, narcissistic identities.
		
00:48:23 --> 00:48:24
			And you...
		
00:48:25 --> 00:48:29
			If you look at any startup guru's biography,
		
00:48:30 --> 00:48:36
			it shows how competent he was and how
		
00:48:36 --> 00:48:41
			he was able to compete and come out
		
00:48:41 --> 00:48:41
			on top.
		
00:48:41 --> 00:48:45
			And how minute the other people are.
		
00:48:47 --> 00:48:49
			The one who ran away from the corporate
		
00:48:49 --> 00:48:53
			culture or the university culture and started a
		
00:48:53 --> 00:48:58
			startup, and that startup became a corporate in
		
00:48:58 --> 00:48:58
			its own right.
		
00:48:59 --> 00:49:01
			And the one he ran away from was
		
00:49:01 --> 00:49:03
			treated the same way by his own people.
		
00:49:04 --> 00:49:07
			Because he brought individualism from there.
		
00:49:07 --> 00:49:10
			It's okay, his individualism went up a lot.
		
00:49:11 --> 00:49:16
			But when he ultimately needed other people, he
		
00:49:16 --> 00:49:19
			started humiliating them the same way the others
		
00:49:19 --> 00:49:19
			did.
		
00:49:20 --> 00:49:24
			So, that's the sad reality of how the
		
00:49:24 --> 00:49:26
			domino effect, right?
		
00:49:26 --> 00:49:29
			Of how evil perpetuates itself.
		
00:49:30 --> 00:49:34
			Mr. Ahmed Bilal commented, these companies do not
		
00:49:34 --> 00:49:37
			consider their employees as their assets.
		
00:49:38 --> 00:49:41
			A few days ago, I heard this from
		
00:49:41 --> 00:49:46
			a client, from his own mouth, that I
		
00:49:46 --> 00:49:53
			was a good resource, I can perform my
		
00:49:53 --> 00:49:56
			duties well, but I am not being acknowledged.
		
00:49:57 --> 00:50:02
			He was so, it was so inculcated in
		
00:50:02 --> 00:50:06
			his soul that he was describing himself as
		
00:50:06 --> 00:50:09
			well, I was a good resource.
		
00:50:10 --> 00:50:15
			For him, in his eyes, he is only
		
00:50:15 --> 00:50:16
			a resource to his boss.
		
00:50:19 --> 00:50:22
			And similarly, I heard a very similar comment,
		
00:50:23 --> 00:50:29
			that how a person with values, aspirations, dreams,
		
00:50:30 --> 00:50:35
			goes to a corporate setup, works there, works
		
00:50:35 --> 00:50:38
			hard, and then he hears from his bosses,
		
00:50:40 --> 00:50:42
			that you are too nice.
		
00:50:45 --> 00:50:48
			These values of yours, will take you away.
		
00:50:48 --> 00:50:51
			And how does he literally become a victim
		
00:50:51 --> 00:50:52
			of an existential crisis?
		
00:50:53 --> 00:50:58
			And starts questioning the very values that he
		
00:50:58 --> 00:51:00
			has stood on in his entire life, and
		
00:51:00 --> 00:51:03
			he is being told that only upon compromising
		
00:51:03 --> 00:51:06
			them, will he be able to succeed, that
		
00:51:06 --> 00:51:10
			his success is based on how well he
		
00:51:10 --> 00:51:16
			can cheat, deceive, and con others in his
		
00:51:16 --> 00:51:23
			environment, how he is capable of emotionally just
		
00:51:23 --> 00:51:26
			coming at people and being, in the name
		
00:51:26 --> 00:51:27
			of being strict.
		
00:51:28 --> 00:51:35
			So, as always, Azam, our negativity, our...
		
00:51:36 --> 00:51:39
			What you said just now, I can only
		
00:51:39 --> 00:51:43
			think of one thing, that when you talked
		
00:51:43 --> 00:51:47
			about deceit, we are at one level, the
		
00:51:47 --> 00:51:52
			same corporate is teaching its employees, both corporate
		
00:51:52 --> 00:51:57
			and shopkeepers, is teaching its employees how to
		
00:51:57 --> 00:51:59
			deceive the customer.
		
00:52:00 --> 00:52:05
			But he is not allowing that employee to
		
00:52:05 --> 00:52:07
			deceive the employer.
		
00:52:09 --> 00:52:13
			Treat me as someone else, and customers as
		
00:52:13 --> 00:52:16
			someone else.
		
00:52:17 --> 00:52:19
			Absolutely, it's my game, it's my rules, which
		
00:52:19 --> 00:52:21
			are separate for me, and separate for others.
		
00:52:22 --> 00:52:26
			So, they have, literally, they have claimed their
		
00:52:26 --> 00:52:32
			own godhood, they have claimed their own, you
		
00:52:32 --> 00:52:34
			know, position as deities.
		
00:52:35 --> 00:52:39
			So, this is exactly the same thing, you
		
00:52:39 --> 00:52:43
			will deny everything, this is your command, of
		
00:52:43 --> 00:52:46
			any other god, but you will not do
		
00:52:46 --> 00:52:46
			mine.
		
00:52:48 --> 00:52:49
			Exactly, exactly.
		
00:52:49 --> 00:52:55
			As Maulana Rumi used to say, about how,
		
00:52:56 --> 00:53:02
			the Pharaoh had the power, he had the
		
00:53:02 --> 00:53:06
			estate, to make the claims that he did,
		
00:53:06 --> 00:53:12
			but the devil inside me, the opportunity he
		
00:53:12 --> 00:53:14
			got to be a pharaoh on the throne,
		
00:53:15 --> 00:53:16
			he has done it there.
		
00:53:16 --> 00:53:18
			He has done it there.
		
00:53:20 --> 00:53:23
			So, taking it towards a conclusion, a common
		
00:53:23 --> 00:53:27
			criticism, on both you and I, is that,
		
00:53:28 --> 00:53:33
			the dark side of reality, and the evil
		
00:53:33 --> 00:53:37
			in society, we highlight it, we show its
		
00:53:37 --> 00:53:44
			different dimensions, but, we do the same, as
		
00:53:44 --> 00:53:48
			Husna has asked, very appropriately.
		
00:53:49 --> 00:53:51
			That's what we want to do.
		
00:53:52 --> 00:53:54
			We want chaos.
		
00:53:55 --> 00:53:57
			We're anarchists.
		
00:53:57 --> 00:54:00
			How can we play a positive role to
		
00:54:00 --> 00:54:02
			improve such organizational cultures?
		
00:54:03 --> 00:54:05
			Can we bring change?
		
00:54:06 --> 00:54:08
			Husna, can we bring change?
		
00:54:08 --> 00:54:14
			I think I can give an answer to
		
00:54:14 --> 00:54:14
			this.
		
00:54:15 --> 00:54:17
			Only time can tell.
		
00:54:18 --> 00:54:22
			But as far as positive role is concerned,
		
00:54:23 --> 00:54:28
			what I think about positive role is that
		
00:54:28 --> 00:54:30
			everyone should give an answer about their existence.
		
00:54:30 --> 00:54:40
			You don't have to go and fight with
		
00:54:40 --> 00:54:40
			your boss.
		
00:54:40 --> 00:54:49
			You don't have to go and fight with
		
00:54:49 --> 00:54:49
			your boss.
		
00:54:49 --> 00:54:55
			Whatever your capacity is, keep doing it consciously.
		
00:54:57 --> 00:55:04
			Because that conscious working against that culture will
		
00:55:04 --> 00:55:11
			keep you motivated and determined.
		
00:55:12 --> 00:55:15
			And we can't separate organizations from our larger
		
00:55:15 --> 00:55:16
			culture.
		
00:55:16 --> 00:55:22
			Don't we do all this with our maids,
		
00:55:23 --> 00:55:28
			drivers, younger siblings, spouses?
		
00:55:30 --> 00:55:34
			So it is not that a person is
		
00:55:34 --> 00:55:37
			just working in an organization and not doing
		
00:55:37 --> 00:55:37
			it at home.
		
00:55:42 --> 00:55:45
			It is not that a person is just
		
00:55:45 --> 00:55:46
			working in an organization and not doing it
		
00:55:46 --> 00:55:46
			at home.
		
00:55:48 --> 00:55:50
			It is not that a person is just
		
00:55:50 --> 00:55:52
			working in an organization and not doing it
		
00:55:52 --> 00:55:52
			at home.
		
00:55:53 --> 00:55:55
			It is not that a person is just
		
00:55:55 --> 00:55:57
			working in an organization and not doing it
		
00:55:57 --> 00:55:58
			at home.
		
00:56:01 --> 00:56:06
			It is not that a person is just
		
00:56:06 --> 00:56:07
			working in an organization and not doing it
		
00:56:07 --> 00:56:07
			at home.
		
00:56:08 --> 00:56:12
			It is not that a person is just
		
00:56:12 --> 00:56:12
			working in an organization and not doing it
		
00:56:12 --> 00:56:12
			at home.
		
00:56:13 --> 00:56:16
			It is not that a person is just
		
00:56:16 --> 00:56:17
			working in an organization and not doing it
		
00:56:17 --> 00:56:17
			at home.
		
00:56:17 --> 00:56:21
			It is not that a person is just
		
00:56:21 --> 00:56:23
			working in an organization and not doing it
		
00:56:23 --> 00:56:23
			at home.
		
00:56:23 --> 00:56:27
			It is not that a person is just
		
00:56:27 --> 00:56:27
			working in an organization and not doing it
		
00:56:27 --> 00:56:27
			at home.
		
00:56:30 --> 00:56:31
			It is not that a person is just
		
00:56:31 --> 00:56:35
			working in an organization It is not that
		
00:56:35 --> 00:56:35
			a person is just working in an organization
		
00:56:35 --> 00:56:35
			and not doing it at home.
		
00:56:54 --> 00:56:58
			It is not that a person is just
		
00:56:58 --> 00:57:03
			working in an organization It is not that
		
00:57:03 --> 00:57:04
			a person is just working in an organization
		
00:57:04 --> 00:57:04
			and not doing it at home.
		
00:57:04 --> 00:57:05
			and not doing it at home.
		
00:57:05 --> 00:57:08
			Those more privileged, whether they are the owner,
		
00:57:09 --> 00:57:13
			CEO, team lead Whatever, the more senior you
		
00:57:13 --> 00:57:17
			are, the greater role you can play in
		
00:57:17 --> 00:57:18
			fixing this.
		
00:57:19 --> 00:57:22
			I think the default position should be in
		
00:57:22 --> 00:57:25
			acknowledging that the problem is there.
		
00:57:26 --> 00:57:29
			Reflex response will tell us that it happens
		
00:57:29 --> 00:57:31
			everywhere but it doesn't happen in my team.
		
00:57:31 --> 00:57:32
			It doesn't happen in my area.
		
00:57:32 --> 00:57:33
			It doesn't happen at all.
		
00:57:34 --> 00:57:34
			Should I tell you?
		
00:57:35 --> 00:57:37
			And then the defenses will start.
		
00:57:38 --> 00:57:39
			Let's be real.
		
00:57:40 --> 00:57:43
			Let's start from this as a default position
		
00:57:43 --> 00:57:44
			that it is there.
		
00:57:44 --> 00:57:45
			It is everywhere.
		
00:57:45 --> 00:57:48
			You have to fight it consciously.
		
00:57:49 --> 00:57:53
			You have to consciously make those communication systems
		
00:57:53 --> 00:58:00
			in which an exploited, abused employee from the
		
00:58:00 --> 00:58:04
			janitor all the way to your most qualified
		
00:58:04 --> 00:58:12
			technical expert can express where they feel that
		
00:58:12 --> 00:58:16
			they may be dealt with unfairly.
		
00:58:20 --> 00:58:23
			They should not be penalized on that expression.
		
00:58:23 --> 00:58:25
			They should not have to fear the consequences
		
00:58:25 --> 00:58:26
			of speaking out.
		
00:58:28 --> 00:58:31
			When they speak, you communicate with them.
		
00:58:31 --> 00:58:34
			It is possible that their perspective is wrong.
		
00:58:35 --> 00:58:38
			It is possible that they are mistaken but
		
00:58:38 --> 00:58:40
			that's only going to come out in conversation.
		
00:58:41 --> 00:58:43
			If they are carrying that without getting a
		
00:58:43 --> 00:58:45
			chance to express it, that resentment will then
		
00:58:45 --> 00:58:46
			eat inside your institution.
		
00:58:48 --> 00:58:48
			Right?
		
00:58:48 --> 00:58:54
			Second thing, as an employee, as somebody who
		
00:58:54 --> 00:58:56
			is struggling through this, I say this straight
		
00:58:56 --> 00:58:57
			out to most of the people that I'm
		
00:58:57 --> 00:58:58
			dealing with.
		
00:58:58 --> 00:59:00
			How long are you planning on going with
		
00:59:00 --> 00:59:01
			that organization?
		
00:59:02 --> 00:59:05
			And what does that organization mean to you?
		
00:59:06 --> 00:59:10
			And if your mental health is having to
		
00:59:10 --> 00:59:14
			make so many sacrifices to live in a
		
00:59:14 --> 00:59:21
			toxic environment, I would make one of two
		
00:59:21 --> 00:59:21
			choices.
		
00:59:21 --> 00:59:25
			If I want to live here, how can
		
00:59:25 --> 00:59:26
			I change this culture?
		
00:59:28 --> 00:59:30
			And along with that, what is my exit
		
00:59:30 --> 00:59:31
			strategy?
		
00:59:31 --> 00:59:32
			What is my alternate?
		
00:59:33 --> 00:59:39
			I, along with toxicity, again, that person who
		
00:59:39 --> 00:59:47
			doesn't divorce and keeps abusing his spouse, keeps
		
00:59:47 --> 00:59:49
			abusing him, keeps saying bad things to him,
		
00:59:50 --> 00:59:51
			his prayers are not accepted.
		
00:59:52 --> 00:59:54
			So this is from the Hadith of the
		
00:59:54 --> 00:59:55
			Prophet, peace be upon him.
		
00:59:56 --> 00:59:59
			In this case, your spouse is your organization.
		
00:59:59 --> 01:00:01
			You have to keep abusing him, you don't
		
01:00:01 --> 01:00:03
			have to divorce him, and you don't have
		
01:00:03 --> 01:00:05
			to tell him what he's doing wrong.
		
01:00:06 --> 01:00:08
			How is this going to, if this is
		
01:00:08 --> 01:00:10
			not going to mess you up further, then
		
01:00:10 --> 01:00:11
			what will it do?
		
01:00:11 --> 01:00:13
			Follow the organizational hierarchy.
		
01:00:13 --> 01:00:18
			Let yourself find the nicest, best way to
		
01:00:18 --> 01:00:22
			be heard, to create that communication culture.
		
01:00:23 --> 01:00:24
			Even anonymous reviews.
		
01:00:25 --> 01:00:30
			Yes, anonymous reviews, whatever it is, it is
		
01:00:30 --> 01:00:31
			important to do all of that.
		
01:00:32 --> 01:00:36
			And along with that, an exit strategy is
		
01:00:36 --> 01:00:37
			also important.
		
01:00:37 --> 01:00:41
			When all of that, the risk that you
		
01:00:41 --> 01:00:45
			take, when that falls back on you, like
		
01:00:45 --> 01:00:50
			Azam said, the mental stress of unemployment, you
		
01:00:50 --> 01:00:51
			have to bear that as well.
		
01:00:51 --> 01:00:53
			You should have a plan for that as
		
01:00:53 --> 01:00:53
			well.
		
01:00:56 --> 01:00:57
			Okay, Yusuf.
		
01:00:59 --> 01:01:00
			That's one hour.
		
01:01:02 --> 01:01:06
			I'll just remind you that Brother Ehsan has
		
01:01:06 --> 01:01:07
			given you his reminder.
		
01:01:10 --> 01:01:12
			He gave it to me, he gave it
		
01:01:12 --> 01:01:12
			to you.
		
01:01:12 --> 01:01:13
			He gave it to both of us.
		
01:01:16 --> 01:01:17
			Alright, alright.
		
01:01:17 --> 01:01:18
			Reminder taken, Brother Ehsan.
		
01:01:19 --> 01:01:20
			And we conclude with that.
		
01:01:20 --> 01:01:22
			Thank you all for your comments, for your
		
01:01:22 --> 01:01:23
			questions, for your participation.
		
01:01:25 --> 01:01:27
			Please, we are open to ideas, to your
		
01:01:27 --> 01:01:30
			feedback, as to what topics you would want
		
01:01:30 --> 01:01:32
			for us to cover, what questions you would
		
01:01:32 --> 01:01:33
			want for us to answer.
		
01:01:34 --> 01:01:37
			And we will be back next week with
		
01:01:37 --> 01:01:42
			a special guest and a special topic, child
		
01:01:42 --> 01:01:42
			sexual abuse.
		
01:01:43 --> 01:01:46
			We will be detailing different aspects of that
		
01:01:46 --> 01:01:48
			with Dr. Ayesha Minhas.
		
01:01:48 --> 01:01:51
			Thank you all for being a part of
		
01:01:51 --> 01:01:51
			this.
		
01:01:52 --> 01:01:54
			And with that, we close.
		
01:01:54 --> 01:01:55
			Wa Akhirat Awan.