Yasir Qadhi – The Khilafa, Muslim Unity & Islamic Difference of Opinion
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911
occurred, and I was in Medina. And I
saw the 2 intaro's fault in Medina. And
that was a changing point for me when
I realized, hey, that's my country.
I need to go back
and explain to my people that my faith
is not a terroristic faith until our immature
Muslims
understand they can separate between the role of
a Muslim politician versus the role of a
sheikh. A Muslim politician is going to say
things I don't like. Let me refute him
and still understand he has a role to
play. But just understand, the other groups are
not your enemies, and they're not evil, and
they're not callous to shaitan, and they're not
all going to jannam just because they disagree
with your particular understanding of Islam. If we
could get to that level, I really think
the Ummah would actually be at a far
bigger place.
Alright.
Thank you so much for joining us.
Let's just jump into it. I'm just taking
the time.
So to begin, obviously, the the talk for
all the Muslimi and rightfully so is Gaza,
Palestine, and what's going on. Very recently, some
recent developments is the ICJ has said it's
plausible. This is old news now. It's plausible
that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza. The
prosecutor of the ICC, the International Criminal Court,
has issued, an application
for arrest warrants against Netanyahu
and some other members in, in in the
government in Israel.
These are very, very big steps.
Alongside those big steps are multiple countries
who have
recognized
Palestine
as a state.
And this is these are huge steps that
we have not seen, that we dreamt of
seeing for a very, very long time. So
with all of these developments
and as things stand now, what is your
overall stance with the situation and where do
you see it possibly going?
Mhmm. First and foremost, the general disclaimer is
that obviously,
I am not a political analyst. That's not
my training. And so we all have the
right to say our opinions. But with that
disclaimer, I like to always differentiate between that
which I have studied intensely in which my
opinion is, I would say, a bit more
of an expert and formulated versus something that
I'm a generic reader of, in which case
my opinion should be just as much as
any other educated person. And that's, that's the
disclaimer I'd like to make. With regards to
this issue of, how I see,
what is unfolding,
in my humble opinion, when,
20, 30 years ago, there was this famous
theory of of the clash of civilizations
where,
Samuel Huntington was one of the world's foremost
political scientists of one strand of political scientists
of the world at the time formulated that
the western world and the eastern world, and
in particular, the Muslim world would have this
massive clash and 911 happened. And so Huntington's
theory of the clash of civilization was then,
earmarked as being basically a precursor to this
massive, fundamentalist
on one side, I. E. The Muslims versus
the rationalist. That was the perception that was
given. At the time, myself and others,
we actually pointed out not exactly at the
time, but after 9:11,
I was one of those that said, actually,
what we're seeing now is not a clash
of civilizations,
but a clash within civilization.
I see. A clash of what it means
to be a Western
secular liberal
democratic society.
And that is a clash that we're seeing
over and over and over again
around the world
between,
I mean, go back a few years, you
know, Bernie Sanders on one side and Trump
on the other. The divide between Bernie Sanders
and Trump is as market as the divide
between east and west. And yet the both
of them are claiming to be bastions of
what it means to be American and western.
And so in reality, what we're seeing here
is a clash within Western civilization. Right? Is
it really going to stand up to its
own ideals?
Or is it all a sham? Is it
all hypocrisy?
Right? That's what we are seeing here. And
that clash,
sad fact of the matter and, sometimes I
say things get me to a trouble, but
I'm just being blunt here. We Muslims, statistically
I'm just saying statistically. Mhmm. We are not
significant
enough in the western world,
to play a vital role in terms of
our percentages. Now
sometimes percentage are catalysts, and sometimes those catalysts,
even a small percentages, can act as massive
changes. And that's what I'm gonna come to.
However, fact of the matter, especially in America,
we are less than 1%.
We are less than 1% of this country.
And so this massive clash taking place in
our country and Canada,
you you guys have better statistics than we
do in terms of percentages. But your your
your immigrant Muslim community is newer, and so
they're less integrated in the in the infrastructure.
So there's positives and negatives either way. My
point is that what we're seeing now is
that a number of western countries, Norway and
Ireland and and Spain and others, they're actually
at least their governments, they are. And especially
Ireland because Ireland's been through the underdog. Ireland's
been mistreated
and and and and manhandled and and the
the subjugations upon the Irish people by by
the British Empire and South Africa. Why do
you think South Africa and Ireland in particular
are so sympathetic
to the plight of Palestine? Because they've been
there, done that. And when they see that
happening, they cannot help but feel a sense
of, hey, now that we've made it through,
the least we can do is help those
that are going through similar or even worse.
And so in my humble opinion, this is
a very optimistic change and then once again,
it bodes well for the future. At the
same time, I'm also tempered by the reality
that none of the,
major superpowers have yet, you know, switched sides.
And so we are still you know, it
is an ongoing battle. And inshallah, even though
our percentages are small, like I said, catalysts
typically are typically,
are not required in massive percentages. And, you
know, I'm a chemical engineer, my first training.
And so, you know, catalyst is sometimes a
few drops in a in a, you know,
many gallons of of fluid, and it might
have the desired impact. And so perhaps we
as Muslims can act as catalysts. But in
the end of the day, we cannot be
the significant force in and of itself, we're
gonna have to tap into
the grander, you know, scale of things and
be involved with our communities. And, I'm I'm
going from point to point here, but one
point I would like to bring up is
that one of the biggest positives of Ghazan
Falaaslin
is that it has forced us to mature
up about our discourse.
It has forced the Muslim community. And I
have been very, very vocal in the last
8, 9 months about this reality. It's forced
us to have very awkward conversations,
and
and, express,
a a a level of,
foresight and planning that we weren't able to
do. A lot of things have come into
to the forefront here, but we can talk
about them in our conversation. But overall,
Islam teaches us to be optimistic,
And the last 8, 9 months have also
shown us that, Insha'Allah,
things are optimistic.
Insha'Allah,
there have been some major
countries, like, sure, Germany, they have said, and
I was shocked about Germany, that
we're willing to comply with any ruling the
ICC. Yes. Even France has said this in
Germany. So it's
surprising because Germany maybe is making up for
its own, you know, Nazi,
past, but Germany was extremely anti Palestine for
so many years. But,
I think there is a overall sense that
the, international course of, a court of justice
does represent,
a neutral body that is the highest level
of the UN. And so there is a
level of respect that those countries are giving.
Unfortunately, as you know, our own country and
its arrogance and perhaps in that arrogance will
be a downfall, and that's I know I
don't say that positively. I'd rather our country
change its course, because the downfall doesn't bode
well for any of us. But in the
end of the day, Allah knows the future.
Yeah.
So
you gave a lecture once, and I was
very inspired
throughout it where you had mentioned that
every single time, Islam was almost on, like,
the brink of defeat or the Muslims were
on the brink of defeat. Some group of
Muslims from some faraway land that no one's
ever heard of, you can't even find out.
I'm not coming. Just defeat the enemies and
kind of reestablish Islam over and over again.
And you went through so many examples. I
was like, which one's going to be the
last one? Like, they just went on forever.
SubhanAllah.
And I actually I'm going to jump the
gun here. I actually believe
I'm very optimistic
that
the Muslims of the West will have I'm
not gonna say the crucial role, Allah knows,
but a crucial role, without a doubt. That's
my humble opinion. The Muslims of the west
have a very unique role to play. Yeah.
And there are many reasons for this. Of
them is that's our countries that are aiding
and abetting the genocide. And here we are.
These are our countries. And, again, the level
of maturity. Because, again, when I was growing
up and I was, like, the 1st generation
born here, I was born in the seventies
of the 1st generation here. We had a
very different our parents kept on driving the
point that you're never gonna be an American.
This is not your home. That's what we
were taught. Not just your parents. Our our
shuyuk, our scholars. It was always like, you
know, this is Darul Kufrin. That's not yours.
And this and that. And the
growing up in this cognitive dissonance, in my
humble opinion, it actually, you guys are too
young to remember, but 20 years ago, you
know, when the radical groups Al Qaeda and
ISIS came along,
unfortunately, there was this tendency
among some to actually sympathize with crazy radicals,
and they're no longer around anymore. But there
was a sympathy. And one of the reasons
one of the reasons was the message that
was given to our generation was, you don't
belong here. Mhmm. That that message was given
by both
our Shuluk and elders
and by the far right. And so when
you're being told by both sides you don't
belong here, then this radical messianic apocalyptic group
comes along, and you're naive enough to actually
believe them and not see those, but they're
literally a bunch of prison thugs, literally prison
thugs that have just taken the banner of
jihad overnight. Right? You can't see that, then
you just realize, well, you think that that's
my my future, so you just go and
join them. But see, that discourse is gone.
And your generation has grown up,
hearing a very, very different narrative. And I'd
like to think, inshallah, how our generation played
a little bit of role because, you know,
we are your pre pre predecessors not required
with where we changed that tone. Speaking about
myself,
911
occurred, and I was in Medina. And I
saw the 2 intaro's fault in Medina.
And that was a changing point for me
when I realized, hey. That's my country.
I need to go back and explain to
my people that my faith is not a
terroristic faith. I literally had an epiphany, a
change of heart because of 911
that I need to come back and start
preaching in fluent English because I speak English
better than any other language. This is my
people, my language, my my civilization and culture.
And I understand how best to communicate
my faith to my people. Right? And so
I claimed my birth heritage
even though before that point in time, I
was myself ambivalent because that's what I've been
taught. My whole life, you've been taught, you
know, this is Darul Kufar. Again, this is
a deeper pointer, but,
you know,
modern issues sometimes require a little bit of
fine tuning, you know, of of of past
traditions. There was never
a notion of citizenship in the past. Yeah.
And so people identify with their faith. And
so our scholars of the 3rd, 4th, 5th
generation, not the Quran, not the Sunnah, our
scholars divided the world into Darul Islam and
Darul Kufr. Right? That simplistic distinction with all
that
the the repercussions that that that come with
it don't necessarily apply in 2024.
Right? And that those definitions kind of change.
Those definitions change over time. Exactly. Because what
exactly is,
Canada? How exactly would you define it where
Muslims have the right to be who they
are? What exactly is, you know, Australia or
these lands where, you know, Norway 10% or
Austria 10% Muslim? France is 15, 20% Muslim?
You know, How do you define these lands?
Maybe you need a new definition. It's not
Darul Islam,
but the repercussions of calling it Darul Kufra
also don't apply. And so there's a new
discourse that happens. And and what we've been
saying, I've been saying for the last 25
years is that, hey. This is your land.
It's your country.
Be angry that it's involved in genocide, and
then make a difference. I see. It's your
country. Claim ownership.
Don't just sit there and moan and groan
and lambast. No. Go and get active. Start
protesting. Start changing, you know, the narrative. Start,
making people, understand what's going on and start
pushing people to take ownership of what our
own country is doing in that land. And
where there's a will, there's a way. The
past has shown that
groups of committed and dedicated citizens can change
the course of history. That's every single major
shift that occurred, whether good or bad, whether
it's the civil rights. Right? Whether it's a
feminist movement, whether it's abortion, whether it's sexuality
and gender, whether it's LGBT, you know, whether
it's the Vietnam War. Some of these were
good in our eyes. Some of these are
are bad, meaning, you know, the the the
the the the discourse. But in every single
one of these
mass protests,
demonstrations,
the the temperament of the people shifts, and
the government has to follow suit. Why can't
we learn from history and claim what is
ours? And especially, you guys say you're from
Canada,
especially in Canada. You guys have far more
potential than we do simply because your percentages
are far higher. You know? Missus Haga is
15%
Muslim.
15? 15. That's crazy. How much are you
from missus? 15%
Muslim. Unfortunately, the majority of them were still
arguing over the length of your beard and
the size of your trousers, literally. And they
think that is the major point of the
religion. And that's the mindset we have to
challenge. Right? They think this is what you
have to you know, what exactly is this
specific? The question goes back a 1000 years.
That's what they're obsessed with. Right? And because
of that, they're gonna put you in a
box. Because of that, they won't pray behind
you, call you, whatever
it might be. Complicated process here. Yeah. We
have to be empathetic. It's not really their
fault. That's what they're taught. But imagine the
potential if we can tap into 15% of
Mississauga.
Imagine the potential of 10% of Toronto. Imagine
the potential
of that. We don't have those statistics in
America. Right? And your country, because it's a
newer country and because it's a more you
know, more than 50% of the people in
Toronto are born outside of Canada.
50%
of Toronto. So you are an immigrant country,
and your last government
demonstrated and showcased this when they had their
ministers. So if the Muslims
were mature enough to understand that, hey, it's
our country, we can shape our policies. It's
not an us versus them. Yeah. It's your
country. Right? Take ownership of it. And this
will require a level of maturity because in
order to get involved in the system, obviously,
you're not gonna enforce the Sharia because Canada
is not Sharia. America is not gonna be
Darul Islam in Sharia. So what level of
compromise? How are you gonna navigate? That's a
very difficult question. And once again, we have
the simplistic hardliners, either black or white. And,
you know, if you remember 5 years ago,
8 years ago, you know, I was one
of those that was not throwing Muslim politicians
who were still sympathetic to Muslim,
civilizational power. I wasn't throwing them under the
bus even if morally I was opposed to
them because I understood that a politician and
a sheikh don't have the same role. Right.
And this is a very difficult thing to
say. Now we see, at least in America,
our Muslim politicians, I strongly, strongly disagree with
their stances on morality.
And I said this publicly and in Khutbas.
Still,
they stood up against APAC, and they stood
up in Congress multiple times, you know, saying
things that nobody else said. Right? And we
needed them in Congress to say that until
our
immature Muslims
understand
they can separate between the role of a
Muslim politician versus the role of a sheikh.
Mhmm. A Muslim politician is gonna say things
I don't like. Let me refute him and
still understand he has a role to play.
Yeah. Right? That level of maturity
that we need to come to, unfortunately, we
still don't have it yet. But what happens
with the Palestine crisis, the Gaza crisis,
a lot of people have had to learn
really quick, you know, super fast. A lot
of people that have steep learning curve. And
so I'm very happy at this. I'm gonna
continue saying this.
I was one of those very harsh against
the intersector, you know, the intersectorian disputes. I
despise the pettiness
that, unfortunately, too many Muslims display. And sometimes
a bit too harsh because I need to
also calm down on this, but I'm angry
at the shayuk. They should know better. Yeah.
I'm angry that you're still debating, you know,
the most petty issues of fiqh and aqidah
when there's a massacre taking place, when there's
a genocide taking place, and you're dividing the
5% religious Muslims, right, over how do you
interpret istawaalal a'ash? How do you interpret yadullah?
How do you interpret this aspect of Qadr?
And you're gonna, you know, bring up a
1000 year old controversy Yeah. That is completely
lost on the masses when children are being
bombed.
And because of that, you're going to have,
you know, hatred in your heart against other
Muslims. Again, I have to be mature about
this and be blunt about this. And Gaza
is acting like a catalyst
to separate people that are thinking 10 steps
ahead versus those that are still going backwards.
Intraceptarian
politics, identity,
all of these conversations,
Gaza has forced it on us. And for
that, I'm very grateful. Yeah.
Honestly, I think that was very beautifully said.
And it points, in a very important direction
that as Muslims, we have to be practical.
The Sharia requires us. Yeah. This is see,
here's another point. What this the word practical
of course, there are aspects that we have
to be careful about. Practical doesn't mean, oh,
it's difficult to pray Fajr. I'm not gonna
pray Fajr. Yeah. And this is where the
critics, you know, come up because they for
them, the word practical, it it makes them
cringe. Yeah. But
the Sharia is meant to be
ease. This isn't me speaking. This is the
Quran and the sunnah and the Sira.
Mhmm. Literally, Allah says, I want ease for
you.
I did not make this religion difficult for
you. And the prophet said, yes.
Right? And the prophet made dua for the
one who he prayed for the one who
made takfi for the salah. He got angry
at the one who made the salah long.
Right? So the Sharia has come to make
life
reasonable
within parameters
of Haram and Halal. And therefore, yes, the
Sharia has come to be pragmatic.
And Ibn al Qaym and others clearly mentioned
this that when there's a hukum, when there's
a ruling that is not gonna make life
conducive, then you have misunderstood the Islamic ruling.
The Islamic ruling is not gonna make life
impossible. And those people that used to tell
us that you cannot be involved in the
system, you cannot be involved in politics, you
cannot even vote because that was the fatwa
I grew up hearing constantly in the eighties.
Right. And that was there was, like, no
second opinion amongst the clergy of that time.
Voting is haram. Voting is shirk. Voting is
kufar. That was the only thing we heard.
And again,
after 911,
all of that was kicked out because they
understood
you needed to be involved in the system,
or else our masajid were getting shut down,
our Islamic schools, so many institutes,
shuyuk who were deported, some were thrown in
jail, all unjustly.
Right? And so,
again, you guys are cheering to remember this,
but 911, it was a wake up call
for me. I mean, I'm exhibit a. Yeah.
I was 22,
23. Right? When 911 happened. Right? No. Sorry,
Bill. Bit older than the 25.
Yeah. 25, 26. Yeah. So 911 happened, and
I was in my mid twenties. Right? And
I, at the
time, did have very naive views, simplistic views.
So I kinda empathize when a new generation
of 20 year olds coming and they wanna
just, in their simplistic mind, say, anybody who
doesn't agree with my understanding of Islam must
be a CIA agent, must be a sellout,
must be Iran, must be a liberal reformist
of Islam. I kinda get it because I
used to feel that way. But the difference
is we've lived through tragedy after tragedy. Whereas
when I was 20, there was no tragedy
I lived through. Right? We lived in a
very different world. And what I don't understand,
you've seen this reality
that, look, you cannot live in this in
this, you know,
utopic bubble. You cannot live in this environment
where you think it's like a laboratory environment
where everything is pristine and pure. It doesn't
work that way. We are navigating through a
very, very difficult system. Yeah. And there's no
clear cut right and wrong.
There's no, like, simplistic, you know, hack versus
bathtub. There are areas of shades of gray
everywhere in the middle. And we're having having
to choose the lesser of 2 evils in
almost everything that we do. I see. So
this is where the the the the pragmatism
comes in this regard. And, yes, we're gonna
make some mistakes.
There's no doubt about it. How can we
not make mistakes when we're going where no
other generation has gone? Yeah. When we're doing
what nobody before us has done. But rather
than the armchair critics just lambast and point
and pinpoint and make fun of and and
and and refute,
learn from the mistakes.
Do it
again. Bigger, better, stronger, and more perfect. Yeah.
I always tell my critics. I always tell
them rather than just criticize,
do something bigger and better, and I'll make
Duaa for you. Oh, well, that's profound. May
Allah bless you and mercy. So it seems
like there is there is some kind of
balance where we have to be practical and
pragmatic and have a kind of a conclusion
we want to get to, a result we
we want to have as Muslims
without compromising certain Islamic values. Would you agree
with that generally? Of course. And
the the problem comes, though, defining. I was
just supposed to ask that. The problem comes
defining it is almost impossible because it is
context based. Yeah. It's context based.
It varies from situation to situation.
And
that's why, for example, the simpler the most
obvious example, which is, like, no controversy at
all. The process that I've said, when you
pray,
pray standing.
If you cannot, then pray sitting. If you
cannot, then pray lying down. So from this,
our scholars have basically given that that that
that ruling that, look, The more difficult a
situation is,
the more laxity the sharia gives you in
that situation.
Okay. This is a maxim,
The more difficult
life is, the easier the sharia is. I
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Now let's get back to the show. I
see. Okay. So if you can stand up
and pray, stand up. If you're sick, you
can sit down, sit down. If you cannot,
then lie down and at least try to
move your head. If you cannot even do
that, then what? You move your eyelashes. Right?
I literally, you blink. Can I even do
that? Our scholars say, if you're literally put
in parallel, you literally imagine salah.
Literally. So this is exactly
take this Copy and paste from the hadith
and apply it to the real world now.
Right? You can't predict how bad the situation
will get. Let me give may Allah protect
all of us. Look at the Uighurs of
China. Yeah.
May Allah protect
any of us to be in that situation,
and may Allah bless them and and and
free them. Can you imagine being in a
Uighur concentration camp right now?
What fatwas are we gonna give them about
Sayam,
about salah?
They can't pray.
Yeah. They're gonna be whipped if they pray.
They are brought out in the daytime of
Ramadan and forced to drink alcohol
in public so that they know they're not
fasting?
What fatwa are you gonna give them?
You're gonna say to them you you you're
gonna have to say to if I were
the male, if I were there, say, look.
When they force you, you do it, and
your fast isn't broken. I would give them
if I if I were to if I
were to be there, I would say to
them, you will fast in your mind.
And because you're forced when they force you,
that is actually ignored, and your fast is
not broken.
Now is that fatwa I can give in
America?
If somebody says, oh, I have to go
out for a lunch, and I don't wanna
be awkward. You you can't you you know,
I don't wanna be awkward by pretending to
be fasting. I don't wanna give away that
I'm a Muslim. Is there is that 2
2 the same? Not at all. Exactly.
So my my my point is a lot
of these,
you know, people who don't understand fiqh and
osule,
simplistic minded critics,
they think the Uighur situation
and the situation of the person embarrassed to
America is exactly the same. Yeah. No. It's
not. No. It's not. And in some areas,
we are
not to the level of the weakest, but
we're closer to that. IE politics is one
of those.
What do we do? It's our government. I
have the right to to to get somebody
in office. I have that I can run
for office if I wanted to. Right? I
have Muslims that are running, and they're saying
to me, we're gonna help the Palestinian situation.
Now in order to get there, they're gonna
have to choose their battles.
They can't be mister Maulana Imam Mufti Sheikhul
Islam.
They're gonna have to preach a rhetoric that
I don't agree with ethically, morally,
about equal rights for same * and this
and that. Right? Now what do I do
now? What exactly is the is the end
result? And this is where, again, the simplistic
minded people, they think the awkward situation of
the lunch versus the Uighurs is exactly the
same. No. I have to save 45,000
people that are being massacred.
And not just that. Overall, the Palestinian situation
is not just one episode of Gaza. 75
years have gone by. Right? And not not
just this. It's more than just the Palestinians.
It's the fact that our government should be
representative of who we are. Yeah. We need
to have people that
are us, such such that the next, you
know
may may God protect us a terrorist incident
happens.
People can say, hey. Look. Those are the
bad guys, and the rest of us are
all good guys.
They need to be able to say that.
Now in order to get to that level,
obviously, you're not gonna have your your your
your sheikh ul Islam, your mufti going there.
Right?
Again, the level of intelligent discourse we need
to get to that.
I continued because I am optimist in the
end of the day. If you continue to
preach common sense and wisdom, eventually people are
gonna open up. That's what I've been doing
for the last 10, 15 years. And, Alhamdulillah,
I can say more and more people,
are opening up to this reality. I see.
I see. So my question is in regards
to making political change within America, what is
the
the best case scenario for that? So I
I always say it's not my job to
pontificate too much about political science. My job
is simply to validate that people should get
involved. That's all.
I personally
am a soft pragmatist. I have a much
longer talk about
on the Thinking Muslim podcast. You can listen
to that where I go over this in
a lot more detail. And I talked about
the fact that I'm a soft pragmatist. I'm
not somebody who's a hard pragma. I don't
believe that the bulk of the change will
come via our elected officials. I don't believe
this. But, definitely, I also don't believe that
we should avoid the system in totality.
So overall,
I am a soft endorser. Like, look, some
people need to get involved.
I personally would not want my children, my
immediate family, my immediate students to get involved
because it comes at a cost of your
spirituality. Mhmm. Right? But
my saying
to those who are concerned of spirituality, don't
get involved, will have zero impact on the
politicians who wanna get involved. Right? I see.
So I'd much rather a Muslim politician who
fears Allah a little bit Mhmm. Get involved
in office rather than a secular or somebody
who doesn't fear Allah at all. Yeah. See
my point here. I see. I see. That
makes sense. Okay. So some I want to
bring the discussion for my own sake, kind
of to a to a basic point just
for a moment,
and kind of establish some, like, Islamic principles.
I guess I think it's important to be
principled, especially for people watching at home, because
a lot of us, including myself, are simple
minded. Right. And I don't mean that as
an insult. That's just a matter of fact,
for a lot of people, including myself. So
I want to ask a few questions about
Islamic principles.
Is do you believe that it is an
obligation when you're able to to implement
Islam as Allah has revealed it? Of course,
the generic answer is yes. But that question
is is being asked in a manner that
it's it's what what do you mean?
Like, so yes. Generically, of course. Mhmm. But
how is that gonna happen? And where are
we right now? And what is the ideal
you're aiming for and how to get from
point a to point b. So this is
where the devil is in the details. But
you're asking a question. Do you wanna be
Muslim? Of course, I wanna be Muslim. That's
basically what you're asking. Do you want to
apply Allah sharia? Of course, you wanna apply
Allah shaded. The answer to that is yes.
There's no there's no ambiguity there. The devil
comes in
the details about what exactly
does this implicate? What exactly are you getting
at in every single issue? I see. So
let's say you had a scenario
in which
you you, let's say, like, the ideal Muslim
scenario. So there's a group of Muslims who
have the power, and they will not be
opposed by anyone to establish,
like the caliphate, for example. And they have
one emir al not meaning and the West
is not going to get involved. They want
to be hands off and let us basically
do our own thing in our own country.
Good for them. Excellent. Yeah. So in that
case, no problem.
Okay. Alhamdulillah. So my question now is let's
take these 2 kind of position because right
now there seems to be 2
mainstream positions. 1 is we need to work
to fully implement that system.
And whatever the reality is, we need to
work to change the reality to make it
acceptable
to have such a system.
Whereas
the the kind of train of thought that
you're proposing, and and please correct me if
I'm wrong, seems to be, listen, that's not
going to happen now. Let's just focus on
doing what we can to make the situation
better. And there are certain akham that can
be interpreted to fix the modern context instead
of working to change the modern context to
fit Islam.
Yes. I would I would overall agree with
you there.
I don't oppose
those who want to establish an alternative system.
Mhmm. But I simply point out, don't blame
me if I think you're being impractical. That's
my opinion. I see. Prove me wrong. I
wish you all the best. Yeah. But
the global system is here.
People have tried. The Taliban tried in the
nineties. Mhmm. ISIS tried. Al Qaeda tried. You're
gonna go down that route?
I don't know what to tell you. You're
gonna go down that route? Arab Spring, the
whole Middle East I tried. Yeah. Right? Look
what happened.
So
prove me wrong. But then, excuse me, before
I say that, you're gonna go down the
ISIS route. I don't want you to go
down that route. Yeah. Of course. I don't
want you to go down that route because
you harm my religion. Yeah. You did the
most backward things,
the most un Islamic things in the name
of Islam Yeah. Thinking that Allah gave you
the right to do that. Yeah. And that's
100% off the table. But then so then
what's the alternative? You're gonna you're gonna go
down some island in the middle of nowhere
and declare a caliphate? No. No. That and
eve even if you did, you got your
10 people. What's what's gonna happen? There's no
change that's going to happen. So then I
understand.
How exactly are you gonna do that Yeah.
Without revolution and blood? And with that revolution
and blood, what does that entail? Yeah. That
entails the governments that you're fighting against. Mhmm.
They will kill you, your family, your friends,
millions of people because they're worried about the
Kursi. Look at Syria. Mhmm. Look at Egypt.
Look at all of these countries. You wanna
do it all over again?
My heart is with the people
who stood up for the Arab Spring. That's
where my heart is. Right? But I saw
the realities of what happened. The results of
it. I saw the results of it. Do
you understand what I mean here? Absolutely. Absolutely.
My heart and my duas were with the
people on the streets. Yeah. I I jumped
for joy when the Arab Spring happened. Mhmm.
But the bitter reality and the bitterest pills
that we saw Yeah. Again, these Islamist movements
and parties Mhmm.
They won resounding victories at the polls. Mhmm.
But the world was against them. The superpowers
our country was against them. Yeah. And within
weeks
within weeks,
they maneuvered and they performed the internal coup
d'etat. So
my critics call me naive. I'm sorry. I
don't care. Look at the reality. Yeah. It's
a two way street here. I think you're
naive. But, hey,
prove me wrong without bloodshed. Yeah. And if
you want bloodshed, I don't want bloodshed Yeah.
For myself and my family. I don't want
1,000,000 to die for this false dream. And
also,
superpowers
are not
carved out by calling somebody a Khalifa. Mhmm.
These are games you guys are playing. These
are games.
It doesn't how do is superpowers based upon
GDPs Mhmm. Armies Mhmm. Masses.
China and America are superpowers because they have
1,000,000, 100 of 1,000,000,000 of people and they
have 1,000,000,000,000 of dollars of GDP and economy.
That's how you become a superpower. And it
takes not decades, centuries,
centuries of civilization. Yeah. Same with the Muslim
community. It took obviously the prophet Wazani, the
miracle of Allah
But even for the civilizational
empower, it took a century. Yeah. A century
plus for the Umayyads to reach what they
reached and the Abbasids. Right? So
people talking about establishing Islamic superpower.
I mean,
how? Yeah. It's all I'm saying. So in
the meantime, there's a massacre taking place. Yes.
So what I'm worried about is as follows.
There's 10 of us in a room. Right?
And all 10 of us, if we all
start talking about, you know, this this imaginary
superpower, whatnot, and there's our children that need
to be fed. Right? There's there's bills that
need to be paid. Yeah. There's there's there's
actual stuff that needs to be done. If
all of us start talking about some
ideal and utopia that we're daydreaming about and
our kids are going hungry, has a problem.
Absolutely. It's a massive problem. I agree. Now
if
1 or 2 of us on the side
part time while the rest of us were
taking care, yeah, that's the ideal. Yeah. So
this is my point. Mhmm. And I've said
this multiple times.
I am not against it. And those that
are qualified
and those that have vision and foresight, they
should be
planning, and they should
be charting the course forward in a reasonable
manner. But also, while you guys are doing
that, don't take me as the enemy by
pointing out that you're gonna have some steps
you're gonna have to do. Mhmm. And don't
be angry at me when I say, hey,
guys, The kids need to be fed. Yeah.
The bombing needs to stop.
The children of Gaza need to be taken
care of. When I point that out, don't
get angry at me that, hey, we don't
have a caliphate. I'm sorry. Okay. Yeah. While
you guys daydream, I need to take care
of the kids here. Right? Yeah. So this
is where my my criticism has been. It
is not against the idea. Yeah. It is
against the fact that I think you guys
are are are jumping 20 steps ahead when
there's so much to do. And you haven't
explained to me how we're gonna get from
here to there. And I stand by what
I say. Prove me wrong without bloodshed and
backlash on me and my family. I agree.
Firstly, I wanna say, I I assume it's,
like, not a serious thing, but you keep
saying you guys as if, like, I'm a
part of any group. I'm not. I didn't
mean. Yeah, I know. I understand. I just
want to point out for everyone watching at
home. You didn't mean. Yeah. No, no. Okay.
I love us. Yeah. No worries. No worries.
So
it's like, yeah, I'm always involved with, you
know,
back and forth with people and whatnot. And
recently, I had another podcast with doctor Hatemann
Hajin. So,
just for the record, by the way, I
mean, after the podcast,
I get messages from all over the world.
Yeah. Generally speaking, those that obviously reach out
to me through 3rd parties are very positive
people that have never reached out before. They're
like and generally, the more mature and seasoned
preachers and Du'at and scholars. And obviously I
get a lot of flack and criticism as
well. It is what it is. But it's
interesting that the conversation starts and I'm happy
about that. I hope, inshallah,
even if I'm incorrect in some things, I
hope that
the conversation is provoked such that you're thinking
about other factors. And it's not just simplistic
waving, you
know,
a a a a flag and shouting slogans
Yeah. Is not going to bring about an
actual change. I agree 100%. And and that's
why I respect that. You're, 1, you're willing
to have these discussions, and 2, you have
some kind of, like, I like, some kind
of plan to back the idea. I think
it's silly, and I think it's it's unrealistic
in this. I think it's actually un Islamic
to say this is what we want. And,
like, that's it. And that's exactly. And when
I point out you're you're not gonna get
there immediately Yeah. I get a lot of
flack and criticism as if I'm opposed to
the ideal. No.
You can't get to the ideal
without taking care of modern reality. That's all
I'm saying. I agree. And until you get
there, there's so much going on that needs
to be taken care of. I agree 100%.
So
with with everything I've heard,
I kind of have, like, some a general
idea
of what I feel the middle ground could
be or where discourse could happen. And that
is in so we understand what the deal
is. The, you know, caliphate system, someplace where
in Muslim majority land, where Muslims can implement
their own laws and untouched by
other superpowers.
That seems like something that one, like many
other superpowers,
take takes an extremely long time
with an extremely
specific amount of planning step by step to
bring about that reality. And it's not something
that's going to happen yesterday or tomorrow.
It's going to take some time.
So that seems
to require a level of
strategizing and planning from a united Ummah with
a united front across the globe. And if
we and I'm speaking in ideals here, so
forgive me because we need a plan for
this for unification as well. But if we
somehow got majority of Muslims across the globe
on the same page, that this is what
we want to bring about and these are
the steps we're going to do it correct
me if I'm wrong. I feel like there
are a lot of Muslims in the world
that need Dawah, Like like, proper Dua to
teach them what Islam is
and and how it's done. It's not just
a bunch of, like, rituals. It's not just
praying and fasting and and like you said,
length of the beard and trousers and so
on and so forth. It is a lot
more profound
and a lot more or a lot more
practical and pragmatic than that. And it's because
we live in a real practical pragmatic
society or in a world where Allah has
decreed things to work in a certain way,
and you don't just,
you know, you sometimes you can't just pray
and then sit back and hope. You know,
you have to take practical steps that make
sense. So that is kind of my
unscholarly, like, below layman level understanding the situation.
I mean, I don't disagree with what you're
saying. Mhmm. I just, again, point out, how
are you gonna get the majority of the
world to unite about anything Muslim world, when
they're not united even amongst themselves politically, ethnically?
Which country are you from? Ethnically? Palestine. Okay.
May Allah make it, you know, easy for
you. I don't wanna talk about Palestine. If
you had said, like, Egypt or Pakistan or
Jordan, I don't wanna talk about Palestine. My
family lives there. So let's take that. Okay.
So, Jordan,
you yourself know the Kabilas of Jordan and
the animosities between us. You yourself know. I
don't wanna be too explicit here between Fulan
and Fulan. And you know this. Like, okay,
They're Jordanian.
Yeah. The average Pakistani is completely clueless about
the internal dynamics, but you know the amount
of,
you know,
pride that each Yeah. Section has. Yeah. They
can't even unite amongst themselves. I know as
a Pakistani Mhmm. Karachi and people in this
background and that background, the
Baloch this and this and this and this
and this and the Mujahid is this.
So we can't even unite ethnically, which is
actually
the division that Islam explicitly says is haram
to be disunited on. Mhmm. Now you bring
in
politics, and you bring in sectarianism, and you
bring in and you bring in. Yeah. And
you're telling me we're gonna what if we
were united on a caliphate? So I'm just
saying It doesn't sound realistic.
It sounds good, but come on. Yes.
It's it's just a slogan. It sounds a
lot like, you know,
what people might have said at the time
of the prophet, sallallahu alaihi wa sallam. You
know, like, oh, this guy is he's one
man carrying this this mission. He's a prophet.
That's the big difference. Yeah. As if you
can't the scaffolds an horn. Allah has helped
him. Yeah. And he is Rasoolullah.
You
can't
you can't there is no he has to
be made.
What the prophet did in 23 years, no
human being ever could do. Yeah. I I
agree 100% because he's he he he solidified
the foundation of Iglan across the world. I
agree 100%. But what I will add, if
if you look at, like, Mus'ab Ibn Umer
when he went to Medina,
he was the one who who used Islam
to bring To bring what? Doing what? Dawah.
I agree 100%.
Spirituality.
Yeah. That's what I'm telling everybody to do.
What's stopping you? Go ahead. Yeah. So Preach.
Convert. What I'm saying is we need a
united front to bring this proper da'wah, this
proper understanding of leave behind your nationality, ethnicity.
I don't sound Exactly what I and everybody
else is. What do you all of our
preaching is about fortifying people's imans, making them
stronger and close to Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala.
But we have so much to do. Yeah.
So there's how many what percentage of Muslims
actually pray 5 times a day?
And what percentage around us is non Muslim?
So
we we literally have light years before we're
talking about some critical mass to get to
that to that. You see what I'm saying?
I agree. So
the whole world is open for
you. There's lots of preaching and teaching to
be done. I agree. That's that's what I'm
saying. So when a person you're on a
boat and a person's drowning,
and you're like, well, there's no point bringing
him on the boat because we don't have
a hospital. We don't have the bro, he's
drowning. Yeah. Get him on, and we'll deal
with stage after that. Yeah. This is my
point is that we have priorities right now.
Yeah. And so, yes, a small percentage of
our intellectuals
need to come in a room every once
in a while and have a plan and
a vision, and I will support them. And
I've attended conferences where that has been the
main topic, and my heart is with them.
But
for everyone, there's, like, 99% that just need
to be told, hey, guys, pray. Pray Fajr,
please. You know? They need to be told
to change their lives and be more ethical.
Come closer to Allah. Fear the day of
judgment. Yeah. And I'm just doing that the
bulk of my time. I see. Do you
do you feel like it would not be
beneficial
to also add in
what Islam is meant to bring about in
the world. Like what the kind of what
the Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam established
and like even like the golden age of
Islam that came out. What is the goal
of Islam? The golden age of Islam. What
is the gold goal of Islam? The goal
of Islam? The goal of Islam is to
make, I believe, make the deen of Allah
appear on Earth to be
believed in the hearts of people and implemented
in the world, in society, and for us
to govern ourselves. Valid point to say. I'm
not gonna disagree. Mhmm. What would you say
the the goal is? The goal the goal
of Islam is to achieve Allah's pleasure. Mhmm.
From Yeah. The real foe is
Yeah. The goal of Islam is the dud
of Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala. Mhmm. That is
the goal of Islam. Right? And that goal
in and of itself is independent
of politics.
It's independent of politics? It is. So if
we implement
the, like, the legislation, Allah SWT, In your
personal life? Oh, no, no. I mean I
mean,
the goal should be to implement. Ideally.
Ideally. Yes. Good to have Islamic politics. Without
a doubt. Would that but Allah be pleased
with us for implementing it? It would Of
course. Displease us if we could but don't?
Yes. I agree with that too. Okay. But
we can't right now. Yes. Okay. Yeah. So
when we can't,
are we made haram from Jannah?
Exactly.
So the goal is always there. Yeah. And
the goal is for the Uighurs as it
is for us Yeah. As as it is
for people in Palestine, as is the people
in Pakistan and in and in Morocco and
in Tunisia and in Timbuktu,
everywhere. Yeah. That goal is accessible.
Yeah. And that is the ultimate
goal of Islam. Yeah. Right?
To purify yourself. Now
the ideal situation, yes, is that that purification
is manifested at a worldly level and a
worldly polity. Nobody's I'm not denying this at
least. Right? Yeah. But that polity
is not the ultimate goal because you can
have that polity,
you can have that system and individually still
fail. I see. I see. Do you understand
what I'm saying here? You're speaking on an
individual level. Yes. Okay. So for every individual,
their goal is to get the agenda where
they live in dollars. Yes. Okay. 100%.
Now Islam as a,
that It's meant to get to that goal.
I see. Okay. So when we looked at
the like the Freud, the like Farud al
Kefai, I remember you mentioned,
in a lecture you gave about about the,
caliphate
that,
establishing the caliphate is not
one of the top,
you know, obligations.
Did you listen to my recent lecture with
doctor Hazem El Hajj? This is like a
few 2 weeks ago. I listened, I believe,
to the first hour. Okay. So we can
go I mean, he he went over he
had an even more a different understanding. It's
all we all are different levels here in
this regard. No problem, Insha'Allah.
It is definitely
something that Islam
would aim to achieve because you cannot have
many of the,
Hudud and many of the laws of Islam
established except within the political framework. Let's be
factual. I'm not making a judgment call here.
Let's look at all the strands of Islam
that are currently these activist strands. Right?
Name whichever one of them you want, whether
you're the Sufis or the Salafis or the
Ikhwanis or the Jamaatis or the Tabliris,
you know, or the.
Name whichever ones you want. Right?
None of them
other than,
with respect,
has made the Khalifa
number 1. Yeah. None of them. I see.
I'm just being factual. Mhmm. Even the brotherhood
and Jamaat Islami, which were founded in the
thirties and forties,
trying to revive the Khalifa,
have become localized and generic to their own
countries to Islamify them. And we've seen what
they've done, which is not that much with
respect to them. Yeah. Right. You are saying
it. Yeah. And as for the Sufis and
as for the Deobandis and as for the
Tablighis and as for the Sadafis and as
for
they are by and large or just like
getting involved with their personal, by and
large,
quietest or apolitical or whatnot. You understand what
I'm saying? Absolutely. That so the vast majority
of Muslims
Mhmm. Are not
actively
engaging with the political system Yeah. Right, to
bring about
a world order based upon Islam. Yeah. Do
you agree with me factually, sir? Absolutely. Absolutely.
Now what Hizb utah Hadid and others are
saying Mhmm. Is that they are all
What I am saying,
no. Yeah. There's good in all of them.
Yeah.
And theologically
theologically
Yes. They all have the potential to enter
gender. Yeah. And it is good that some
people are involved in politics
and others involved in Tasfi and Tarbiyyah and
others involved in fiqh and aqeedah. I'm actually
being a chore about it. Yeah. And I'm
saying
Yeah. I'm not saying
because of this one issue. You understand? I
don't. I I disagree with some other stances
that they might have. But in this one
issue,
if they do their job
and they don't they don't consider the others
to be their opponents. Yeah. They they're like,
okay. The Tabliris, I mean, I don't I'm
not a Tablirih. I don't I don't join
them. But, you know, they're good people. In
the end of the day, they're like, you
know, innocent good people, and may Allah bless
them. And they're not evil. Yeah. They're not
my enemies. I don't have to go in
and and lambast them because they misunderstood some
simplistic things. You know, I used to be
a Salafi, and I and my critics say
I'm anti Salafi. Well, I know I don't
think I'm anti. I just feel they have
some mistakes, but I'm a little bit more
explicit with their mistakes because I have the
right because I've been through it. Yeah. Not
because I think the Sufis are any less
or the Tablighs,
but and I say this very bluntly.
All of these religious movements
have achieved a level of salvation
that, inshallah, will cause them to enter Jannah.
Yeah. And their mistakes will be forgiven in
light of their good if they live up
to their own ideals. Yeah. If a tabliri
is really a tabliri. Mhmm. Right? If a
Deobandi is really a Deobandi, if a Sufi
is really a Sufi, if a salafi is
really a salafi and they live up to
what their masha'ik say, which is praying 5
times a day, following their version of fiqh
and aqi, then even though all their differences,
I don't carry a card anymore to one
of these membership clubs. Yeah. I believe in
the religion of the prophet Muhammad, sallallahu alaihi
wa sallam. That is the card I wanna
carry. Yeah. That's the only card I'm interested
in. Right? I don't want exclusive club memberships
anymore. I used to be like that. Right?
So I'm actually
backtracking.
I'm actually lowering the bar of salvation,
not raising it up because each of these
groups wants a super high bar. Yeah. Right?
And I'm saying no. No. The religion of
the prophet
is bigger than your exclusive memberships. Yeah.
You might think only you're going to Jannah.
That's your mistake, and I think you're mistaken.
But I'm not gonna say you're going to
Jahannam because of that mistake of yours. You
understand what I'm saying here? Yes. You you
might think you're the only group going to
Jannah. Yeah. That's your,
you know,
pietistic arrogance. It's not a kibbut arrogance. It's
like your your your sense of we are
better than everybody else. But, no, you're not.
And all the other groups are also good.
So when his and others say that and,
again, I I'm just being factual. I'm not
being, you know, harsh or demeaning here. When
they say that,
you know, all these other groups are theologically
misguided,
That is a massive,
massive claim to make. Yes. And I point
out factually,
they are the only group that are
making this the number one priority. Yeah.
And I think there's nothing wrong with them
to do so. That's the whole point. Yeah.
The irony.
Go do it. But allow the other groups
to find
their own personal relationship with Allah
in their ways. Yeah. And I don't have
a problem with that. And if we all
did our job, maybe, just maybe in that
diversity, we might actually find some unity.
But the problem comes
Every group thinks the Salafis think if you
don't follow my particular aqidah, you're a Muqtada
there. Right? The Sufi thinks if you don't
have my tasfi and my tariqa right now,
you know, the Durban thinks your fiqh is
not quite exactly. The Tabliri thinks you're not
doing dawah the way I want you to
do. If we all understood, look, Allah created
us all differently.
And as long as we have the red
lines, and I talked about what these red
lines are, and they're very clear.
Mhmm.
Those are the red lines, man. That's it.
Really. It's the kalima. It's the Quran. It's
like, you know, the the sha'ir of the
Islam, the 5 pillars of Islam. This is
these are the the the fundamentals where we
all agree upon. If we can understand this
point, then if we can just stop the
animosity between us and say, you know what?
It's good the Tabliris are going out and
doing tawa. It's good the Salafis remind us
there is something called akhid. It's important. You
know, it's good the the Ubandis talked about
structured fiqh because, yes, it's nice to have
structured fiqh. It's good. But just understand, the
other groups are not your enemies, and they're
not evil, and they're not called us to
shaitan, and they're not all going to jannah
just because they disagree with your particular understanding
of Islam. If we could get to that
level, I really think the Umma would actually
be at a far bigger place, better place.
I very, very, very much agree with that
100 percent. And I think, unfortunately, every single
group has their flaws,
especially the ones that ostracize the other ones.
And as you mentioned, say that, you know,
you guys are misguided and and all the
you're gonna be in the hellfire.
What I say and I said this in
Canada. If you listen to my lecture I
gave in Mississauga and ISNA, what I say,
find the moderates of every group.
Every group has moderates and fanatics.
Find the moderates. The moderates who are like,
you know what? I like my way, and
I understand you have a different way. Yeah.
You will always find in the Sufis, in
the Salafis, in Tiguan, in the HT, you
will always find
those who say, you know, I really like
my methodology.
It's what makes sense to me. But I
understand that your methodology,
you know,
is valid for you and good for you.
Those are the ones. Do not go to
those that literally preach my narrow way or
the highway Yeah. Because that is where sectarianism
and firkuh. And that's not the the the
goals of the regime of Islam. Yeah. Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And correct me if I'm wrong. It seems
to be that they are actually kind of
opposed to some of the akhkan
akhham of Allah by
doing this. That they're ostracizing certain groups of
Muslims by kind of saying we are the
chosen, not chosen ones, but we are on
the right way. And what we do. I
know. I'm not all I would hit that.
Oh, that's literally what they're saying. Yeah. Like,
we are the God's chosen people. And Allah
criticized those who said that. No.
Our prophets
said the rights of a Muslim upon another
Muslim. Are you helping what needs to be
helped? You returned the salam to you. So
he literally called the rights of a Muslim.
Nobody has the right to say, okay. If
you don't follow my group, then I'm not
going to give the rights of a Muslim
to another Muslim. Anybody who does so has
disobeyed Rasulullah
If you are a Muslim,
then I have a right over you. You
have a right over me by the testimony
of by the text of the prophet Sallallahu
Alaihi Salam. Simple as that. Yeah. Amazing. JazakAllah.
So we're running low on time. So I
do wanna go towards unity because as we
discussed pragmatism,
being pragmatic, being practical, I do wanna ask
you some for some practical steps. We started,
our organization, The Daily Muslim, because we want
to bring Muslims together,
both like the viewers at home and the
speakers and the scholars and anyone,
you know, who we can, insha'Allah.
So how does unification
actually happen, and what does that look like?
What are the practical steps towards bringing down
these unnecessary barriers
and initiating these conversations, which you, may Allah
bless you, are very, very open to having.
And I respect that very much. Unity begins
with your own efforts in your own community
and your own masjid.
Unity begins you have a podcaster,
bring people to different groups and different backgrounds
and literally just have it out. You need
to begin by listening to people outside of
your own narrow interpretation and understanding. Oh my
god. They're actually Muslims. They say Bismillah before
they eat. They pray face in the Qibla.
Like, you'll be shocked. Like, oh, my God.
They actually read the Quran. Yes. Unity begins
by these small steps. Mhmm. And when you
do these small steps, you will actually begin
to see the fruits of that unity. Yeah.
Unity begins by understanding that just because somebody
disagrees with your interpretation
of Islam, he's not disagreeing with Islam.
I see. Absolutely. Do you think Muslims should
have a united front when it comes to,
like, media, for example?
I mean, of course, they should. But then
again,
sometimes a little bit of diversity is good
as well. Yeah. Because we need different tactics.
Does that make sense? Yeah. We need different
methodologies
to to do, and Allah knows which one
is going to be successful. Yeah. So, yes,
there should be Muslim media out there at
the same time. What tactic to be done?
And yet sometimes people have tactics that I
don't necessarily agree with, but some good will
come out of them. Right. And our prophet
says, this is a hadith. Our prophet said,
sometimes Allah helps the religion with the kafir
or with the fajr.
An evil person is a hadith.
In the Allah, and one real Rajul kafir.
Right?
And just because he's a fajr
and he helps the religion, that doesn't justify
his Fuzhou. Fuzhou means a sin and evil.
Right? And we need to be wise enough
to understand this. Once again, we have a
very, you know,
kindergarten level of this. Now,
there
are,
non Muslims
who are supporting the Palestinian cause. Yeah. That's
true. Now
should we not take their help?
It's common sense. What if somebody says, oh,
but, he's a kafir.
What will you say to that? So what?
So what? What if somebody says, oh, but
he's a LGBT supporter?
I don't see the the correlation on how
that is a problem because if they wanna,
you know, speak out against injustice So if
we're not we're not allying with them for
LGBT. We're allying with them for Palestine.
Right? That's exactly the point. We need to
reach that level of maturity. Mhmm. There are
actors and actresses. You know?
Somebody told me. I don't know, but it's
some some
Arab actress or something,
obviously not dressed properly, whatever. But, apparently, she
wore a Palestinian,
dress or something and some famous things like
that. You know, obviously, she's not dressed appropriately,
but she's doing whatever her part is. Now,
am I going to justify that? Of course
not. It's not allowed to show your skin.
You know what I'm saying? But
she might be doing something that maybe maybe.
I mean, let's never let's not be judge,
jury, and executioner.
Haram and talam and salal. But Allah is
the judge of Jannah and Jahannam. Mhmm. And
never forget,
Allah forgave a prostitute for feeding a dog
Mhmm. A morsel of water.
Something stirred in that girl's heart who did
that to that dog. What I don't know
this person. But what if this Muslim lady,
you know, she feels a sense for Palestine?
And that was her dawah. And I'm not
justifying, please, because I have to be super
careful. My critics jump at every opportunity they
can. I'm just saying,
can we not
criticize overall that, hey, we don't want skin
to be shown and then say, but you
know what? If somebody did something in their
realm that they wouldn't do otherwise, may Allah
bless them for that. Can we not get
to this level of nuance Yeah. Without me
being canceled for being generic? Do you understand
what I'm saying? Let us work. Right? Right?
This is unfortunately, what we do is that
we have
trigger happy youth Yeah. That just want to
kick everybody off. And it does become a
nuisance. It becomes a irritation, not just because,
of course, it's painful because I'm a human
being, but also because it causes
unnecessary
online
chatter and drama. Yeah. Where people's
energy and bandwidth is diverted to what is
more important to that which is less important.
Yeah. I see. I think what I think
personally what would help is if you take
the mature moderates from different groups,
you know, these extreme, kids online who might
be commenting these things, I'm sure they look
up to certain.
And I'm I'm hoping that certain that they
look up to are mature and able to
have these discussions. I think bringing those mature
people, those modders,
altogether to have these discussions on certain things,
you know, publicly as well, would do
great amounts for the Muslims at home being
able to see, oh, you know, I look
up the Yasir Qadhi. He's sitting with so
and so. He's sitting with these people, and
they're having a civil discussion. You know, that's
actually very enlightening. And now they would be
fed those different. Well, if you look at
the last few years, that's really what I've
been doing with a lot of people
around because Mhmm. I'm it doesn't matter to
me Mhmm. Which card you're carrying within the
mainstream
movements of Islam. Sure. There are lines we
draw on Yeah. People that are stuff for
Allah believing in a profit after the process.
That's like we draw lines there. You know?
And yes, there are things I don't like
at all. If you're gonna say bad things
about the Sahaba, I don't wanna pray behind
you. And I've said this publicly, you know?
So there's levels of of, you know, of
stuff that we do in this regard. No
question about it. But I say very clearly,
I mentioned all of these groups.
I don't have a problem which would whenever
these groups that you follow in these mainstream
so many movements. It doesn't bother me in
the slightest. Yeah. And you have the potential
to reach. Mhmm. That is the real goal.
Yeah. So if any of these people can
reach,
how can I be angry at you? How
can I take you as an enemy when,
inshallah, we inshallah, I hope we're in Jannah
together forever? Doesn't make any sense. We're fighting
on Earth when in reality, my goal and
your goal is exactly the same place, and
Insha'Allah, we'll be there. Right? So why make
this earth * when Insha'Allah, we're gonna be
there forever. So I'm not that type of
person where I make these types of petty
things my main focus. There's there's no one
path for Muslim revival.
I say to the youth that ask me
their advice, I say,
do the best that you can
in your dunya while you're visibly Muslim in
your deen.
Like, do the best that you can in
whatever you're doing, whether it's in your company,
you're in your job, whether it's in your
worksmanship,
whether it's in your founding or CEO.
Be the best you can be and also
be visibly Muslim. That's it. That is the
best that way you can do for the
people to see that you are a proud
Muslim and you are clearly identifying with Islam.
And at the same time, you're at the
top of your field and whatever you're doing.
That's all. Now we don't need everybody
to go and become full time Dawah and
shirk and activist because Islam was never like
that. We do need everybody to be visibly
Muslim, to be proud to be Muslim. That's
what we need. So you do you as
the saying goes. Right? That's what you guys
are I'll say, you do you, but you
do you while you're a Muslim. And if
you do that, Insha'Allah, you know, Canada, America,
Australia, England, and all these Western countries, Insha'Allah,
we will then be the catalyst that these
countries need. Insha'Allah, you know. Insha'Allah.
Do you have any final message for anyone
watching?
My my my message is simple is that
and that is that what is required of
you is very simple, dear Muslim, and that
is you worship Allah with your utmost love
and devotion,
and you try to bring as much barakah
and khair to the people around you as
you can. That is all that Allah requires
of you. And if you make that your
lifelong mission and goal, you can and you
will enter
Firdausul Allah is achievable. It is. And that
is in your own heart with your own
relationship with Allah. You max out. And then
in your sphere of influence, that's all that's
required. You're not allowed to change the sorry.
You're not you're not required to change the
entire globe. Mhmm. Or if you could, you're
not required. You are required to change your
sphere of influence.
You are required to influence the people around
you. Yeah. So you do the best you
can do. And if you do that and
everybody does that, guess what? That's how change
actually begins. If we all did that, then
perhaps, inshallah, we will see that global change
we're talking about.
Inshallah. Bless you immensely, and inshallah. Hopefully, we
can do this again soon.
Inshallah.