The Betrayal of the Uyghurs with Arslan Hidayat
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AsSalam alaikum and welcome to today's unscripted podcast. Over the last few years, more and more people in the English speaking world have been alerted to the oppression faced by our brothers and sisters in East Turkistan, which is under Chinese occupation. We've seen more and more horrendous news coming out from about concentration camps, atheism, indoctrination centers, rape and sexual violence, torture, forced labor and even panela organ harvesting. This week on Islam 21 see, we're exploring the theme of wiggers in more detail. We're very glad to have two special guests to enlighten us on this topic. Arsalan hedayat is the founder of the largest media platform in the
English language specializing in legal affairs. T et talked to East Turkistan Islamic Mata Salam or aleikum wa Salaam, brother, if I may, I just want to correct you just there. So the so the biggest channel, talking about the wiggers plight in the English language.
Yeah, so talkie Stokes on 100 Oh, yeah. Okay, excellent.
And we have obviously chef Dr. Leon caddied is no introduction. He's the
the Dean of Academic Affairs in the Islamic seminary of America at the moment, and he's visited the region and spoken and written about this topic. extensively Sakuma fairshake for joining us from Monica. Monica, it's always a pleasure anytime and especially for the weaker cause. Anytime whatever little we can do and show on their luck. So I wanted us just as discuss this issue in more detail because I mean, a salon you can enlighten us on maybe the history of what's actually going on.
Shift you've spoke spoken about the history of Islam How did Islam even get into China or that region in the first place?
Absalon, just kick us off with a brief kind of history of the modern period because I've, I've spoken to I've met some weaker brothers and sisters, and they surprised me. And they told me an interesting statistic, that nice thing, interesting fact that
East Turkistan was actually the first Islamic Republic in the world, even before Pakistan. So what's the what's the modern history behind this region? And so we can get a bit of context. So if you want to go back to again, yes, when we say that, before the Ottomans before the seljuks, before the brothers in Pakistan, the week is where the first Turkic Islamic
nation during the current period, which was led by Sudan, South Sudan, in 1934, so early 10th century
and we are very proud of this. But right now, you know, every day, we see that Islam is disappearing. So once Islam does enter into the regional entities Turkistan,
you know, hundreds of years of Dawa, I guess jihad, various Turkic states are formed. But we get to a very interesting point in time when we hit about 1759, which is when the say that kingdom and we were the kingdom minister, Pakistan, also known as the Yadkin kingdom is invaded by the Manchu empire in 1759, and we are annexed and we become part of the Manchu Empire. Obviously, there is a lot of revolting by the weavers and other Turkic muslims for the next hundred or so years. And in 80s, in 1862, we do have a brief period of freedom and, but that and during that brief kind of freedom, we actually give beta to the Ottoman Empire for a brief, brief period, but that's that
doesn't last very long. And in 1884, they annexed the Manchus, and it says once more and we are officially given the name shinjang which is what we know now today the shinjang Uighur autonomous region by Shin Jang. The Uighur Autonomous Region comes in later So shinjang has given literally meaning new territory in 1884.
Not long after that the Manchu Empire is overthrown by the Chinese nationalists in 1911. About 20 years later in 1933.
The wiggers are able to establish the eastern Eastern Islamic Republic in the city of Caspar, which
borders with Afghanistan, but that is short lived. And then for the next 10 years or so, we are trying to gain our independence once more from the from the Chinese nationalists. And in 1944 with the help of the Soviet Union. We have a second East Turkistan Republic established towards the north of East Turkistan in the city of Olga,
which borders with Russia and towards the north. And that's, that goes for about five years. And historically unpopular. popularly in 1949, the Chinese Communist Party comes into play and they take over the region, promising us to unite against the nationalists and because during that time, the common enemy between the Chinese communists and the weak is where the nationalists, so those big propaganda going on and in finally in 1955, so that the week is do not revolt against any sort of Chinese Empire, any party any government once more. They give us the name shinjang week autonomous region by name autonomous, but in no way are we autonomous, we don't vote for our own leaders, and
things like this. And at the beginning, you know, it seems okay, but then we go through various stages of oppression. So one, you know, you may know that the week is we write in an Arabic script, our language is Turkic, based, but we write in Arabic script. So that's, that's changed into Latin immediately.
Just like kind of what attitude did during the war, when he you know, first established Turkish Republic. So people like in my mother's generation,
you know, cannot read or they can read, but they are not very fluent in Arabic script, whereas a generation after that, they are in the Arabic script. So from 62 to 82, they have Latin scripts, and in 1982, they go back to the Arabic script. So you have a few generations where people are illiterate. And during this time, you have the elites of the society being called, they are made out to be monsters. A lot about elite were educated in Russia, and, or overseas, and they are demonized. And you know, during communism, and especially in the Cultural Revolution, the rich people were demonized. And, you know, the, the layman or the people are forced to not force but they are they
are indoctrinated to revolt against these people and saying that they are unhappy in this way. I mean, there are brief times of freedom, but what seems to happen is 10 years or so, there is a slaughtering or culling of people. And I liken this to a Hollywood movie that I saw a few years ago called snowpiercer, where you have the the last remaining population of the earth on train, and every 1020 years or so, because the population in the train gets so large, they start to call the last cabin. And so we have this. So at around 1980, that China, China introduces the one child policy to the majority Chinese Han population, and the two child policy to the rest of the
minorities. These a week is Kazakhs, mangoes, cookies, everybody else, but the week is revolt against it's in 1991. Sorry, in 1990. And we have the Boston Massacre, where thousands are killed because they wanted to, I mean, as Turkic people, as Arab people as Muslims, you know, we generally have a lot of children, four or five, six children. And so right on the spot, we are in China's abortion policies, it doesn't matter where you are in your pregnancy, 6789 months, they will abort the child, no matter what. And the ones that do survive. The families are made to pay hefty fines if they're not pay them. They are, you know, forced to go to prison and spend some time there for
having a third child. And then in 1997, we have a wall Jessica, or Jessica was based on religious freedoms where where women were not allowed to wear hijab with them in without beads.
And so there was a large mass massacre in 1997, February, the fifth 1997. And we commemorate that every year. 12 years later, we have the famous orangey massacre.
That was based on we've heard of Chinese labor being cheap, but weaker labor is much more cheap. And so eager people are sent into the inner parts of China to work in factories to make our iPhones our toys, our our technology, and the Chinese factory workers. You know, disgruntled perhaps they will get laid off. There are many reasons in how they started. A lot of our youth work were called by sick literally citizens or disgruntled workers. And we estimate during that time, anywhere between 500 to 1000 out of our youth factory workers within in China had died and then there was a protest 10 days later in orangey, the capital, obvious Tajikistan where 10s of thousands of youth went
missing. And now we come to this day and age where
Where we see the concentration camps, literally Monday concentration camps, we liken them to literally just a level under what happened to the Jews 75 years ago, where, as you've mentioned, for sterilization, forced marriages,
you know, banning of Islam we've seen, you've seen the images of mosques being destroyed. Names, illegal names, like Mohammed magnets. You know,
Fatima, Ayesha, I even heard of atheist indoctrination centers. Yes. So in these concentration camps, there are four levels of these concentration camps. The first level is like going to school literally what they say like going to school at nine to five indoctrination. You go there nine to five and come back. The second one is the one you where you actually stay there the infamous concentration camps where you are indoctrinated you are on based on the the former concentration camps detainees that I was able to interview and talk to telling me they that they were receiving anywhere between four to 500 calories a day, they would receive a Steven's steamed bun, and some
sort of soupy liquid, which was what they were given interrogation sessions going anywhere between 24 to 48 hours. So you have sleep deprivation, food deprivation.
porcia. So for example, I was talking to a woman by the name of zumbrota Woods, and she had some food, and she noticed that a much older lady was you know, she needed the food. And she gave the food to this much older lady, and the God saw her and she received the beating. And in the beating,
you know, inside our fitrah, or the inclination is to say, oh God, or Allah. And because she said, that's our, you have some Deen in you. And so she was beaten further. So in these indoctrination in these concentration camps, any sort of weakness or kirkness, or Islam is sort of pulled out of you. So you become
what's what's the word, like, assimilated with the rest of China? So a lot of people ask, why did the Chinese do this is because the weekers are not assimilated enough. And what I mean by simulation is it was thought that they then what, like they're technically according
enough, so what I like to give is an example like we all live in the West. Yeah. So I'm an Australian citizen. I live in Australia, but for example, as Australians, Australians, usually what it's famous, like, they'll go to the beach, right? And they'll free makes them go into the water, or they'll have a be on the weekend. And so there's sort of the stereotypical things an Australian will do, I do not do, right, but the Australian Government is not going to punish me for being stereotypical an Australian. You know what I mean? So the Chinese for the Chinese the wiggers being Muslim, practicing having a bead having a hijab, or talking the wiggle language, not wanting to
marry with Chinese people, these all these things that we see as normal everyday like the British Muslims do this on a daily basis. American Muslims do this on a daily you guys have lived this is seen as separatism extremism, and, and they believe that this leads to terrorism. So in a nutshell, this is why we are being attacked. It's not purely a war against Islam, because we know that the way Muslims had been living quite freely, there are some areas like cities like landru and Nisha and shinning, there are these places where once the if you went to these places, I mean, I'm sure the chef will agree some of these places like Saudi Arabia, women in your car, madrasahs Koran and all
this, but even they for the past two or three years have been suffering not to the level of the wiggers but they are suffering as well.
So I'm sorry to butt in. But if you're enjoying this podcast, please head over to Islam tunisie.com forward slash donate to help us make more money if you're not enjoying it, head over anyway, and help us make better ones.
I do want to get into the bit of the the kind of why the Chinese state is doing this. But check it out. So you're nodding your head, you've you've visited the region does that chime with your experience of that? Firstly, a clarification. This my visit actually caused some eyes being raised as a fully understand. So I visited three years ago, I think and because I went through a travel agency, our bookings had already been done 10 months in advance. So when the trip was announced, and everything was was basically set in stone, there was no whiff of what's going on with the Uighur community. By the time the troops coming closer and closer, the news is coming out that something is
happening, but we're not quite sure. You know, it wasn't fully there. And so there was a point should we go should we not go and I decided, you know, the only reason I will be able to go is if I try my best to at least meet as many Chinese Muslims and get as much information as I can from within this was again way before the news had come in public not only was the most, you know whisperings whatnot going on, and so Had I known of the realities and obviously I do not encourage going as a tourist to China right now. of you
Even if there's no COVID, because obviously, we are indirectly supporting a regime that is doing horrendous things, but my only excuse was this was before the news had gone public. And then after I came back to give a very well received lecture, which was viewed by, I don't know, 50 to 100,000 people where I went over the history of Islam in China. And I went over some of the repressions that even though he and the others are undergoing, our group was not allowed to go to the Xinjiang province. And even as our group went, it was being monitored and followed, wherever we went, we could see the secret police, they weren't that secret. We could see them in the hotel lobbies with
us, we could see them following us around just because we were a large group of Western Muslims just because of that. And we interviewed the local Chinese Muslims living in the major cities. And honestly, it was very sad for me to see the level of state control and the level of knowledge as well that they had, which was very dismal that it wasn't their fault. Obviously, it's not their fault that they're that way. I did not meet the single mom or chef that had been trained within China that could carry a simple conversation Arabic, they understood my Arabic, but they could not reply back. So this was like, to me the equivalent of first year Arabic learning in Medina, for
example, like your Arabic, not even dead in the college, but the Arabic language language program. I'm sure they studied some basic film, but their Quranic recitation was,
you know, a lot to be said about these are they're trained moms. And I asked around surreptitiously where the Medina grads because when I was in Medina, there were hundreds of Chinese students hundreds again, in the mid 90s, right. And apparently, if you graduated from those foreign universities, you have no opportunity to become a chef or an island, you have to just go and get a menial job or whatever. And so the people giving Dawa are basically under state control, I asked the the Imam of one of the masajid there that, you know, are you allowed to preach, you know, Islam and whatnot. And he phrased it in a very nice way. He said, we have full freedom to say whatever you
want to whoever comes to us in the message. Okay. So they're not even allowed to talk about Islam outside of the Western, you know, so their level of Islam is is
a lot to be said, you know, in that regard. But I have a question for you, our salon. Is that saying you're Australia, so you're born and raised in Australia, born and raised in us. Okay, so your parents grew up in in the Uighur province? Yes, my parents grew up in the weaker province. And they left right after the Cultural Revolution, I was lucky enough to go to the region, I guess 10 1012 times. And each time I went, I would spend at least half a year, five, six months. So um, you know, when your parents grew up, I'm assuming this is the 70s and 80s era, they relatively had far more freedoms than anything we're seeing now is that correct. Um, so the Cultural Revolution ended
towards the late 70s. And so, so they were going through the Cultural Revolution, so they were going through oppression at that time as well. So, but but but the, from what I'm hearing from the weekers, that lived during the 80s, they relatively had freedom, like they would have the core and under their armpit, they would be able to carry around. So my parents left in like 1980. Before, before they saw any of this freedom.
So there would be a softening of policies and then hardening of policies. So I'll give you an example. wiegers used to be able to go to Hajj on tightly controlled groups, but later on, you know, with a Chinese passport legally, but later on, those same people are now in concentration camps saying, Why did you go to Hajj for hold on? Didn't you let me go I'm on a Chinese passport or people simply going to Egypt, you know, enrolling in and as her or going to Turkey or going to America. So even legal means so that they let you go that they soften the policies and then they round you up again.
So they've used this sort of policy for for many, many. So the question that a lot of us have is what exactly happened in the last 15 years that exacerbated the situation to this level? Did the Chinese administration start issuing further restrictions? And if they did, and what was the you know, what was the reason for this, like the Chinese government again, so I'm an outsider, obviously to the entire region. What I saw from them was bureaucratic efficiency, heartless, bureaucratic efficiency, from their perspective, the way I see it, they don't want to annihilate the weekers they need that province to have human beings in them. And so as you are surfacing the softening and the
hardening of policies, they clearly want people to be able to, you know, be farmers and work the land and there are minerals there.
They need that. They clearly don't want to annihilate it. Like you said, it's one notch below the concentration camps of Germany because the goal of Germany was to kill everybody. But the goal of these concentration camps is to produce factory workers for the bureaucratic administration. So what exactly prompted the government to go down this route that they know there's going to be a backlash? I don't think they're that naive, to not understand that. So that's the question I have for you. So
the wiggers ever since its occupation, and we see it as an occupation.
We have been an underlying problem for the Chinese regime for since 1949, they have been looking at ways to annihilate, annihilate us, when it comes to manpower, we'll get to the manpower. But the Global War on Terror in 2001 was the perfect excuse. When George was said, you know, you're either with us or them. China said, you know, what, we have Muslims within our borders. So he used that they used that as a cover, so also
punish the wiggers so since 2001, they have ramped up what we call synthesizing or assimilating. So first, they did it softly. They would go to say, the the families softly I'm gonna go, you know what we think your child would do better if they went into the hinterlands. So first, they did surveys, they took it slowly and slowly, they would offer people money to to intermarry with Chinese people. And slowly, slowly, they harden their policies, but one, they actually do not need Uighur people at all, because the Chinese people migrate to East Turkestan every year in their hundreds of thousands. And they are given the jobs, they're given the homes, they're given the education. The difference
between the Germans and the Chinese, the Chinese are actually smarter, because they have the because they have the money and the technology and the capability to profit off the backs of Muslims. So it's like the people that live in the wild, you know, us when we want to eat a cow, we only want the best pieces of steak, we want the ribeye, we want that and we throw away the rest. But people in the wild they'll they'll use every part of the animal. So what I meant to say is the wig is from their hair. Their hair right now is 100.
I forget the statistics now, but it's a multi billion dollar industry right now, because the women's hair, I mean, you know, like, obviously, you know, as Muslims that women are not allowed to share the hair. But culturally wise, symbolically, the wig is hair mean certain things like various knots, the women's hair I'm talking about. It indicates whether they're single or not, and has various different meanings, what province they're from and whatnot. So in the camps, the way the Chinese are profiting from their hair. Number two, they're profiting from their labor.
We know from the Australian strategic policy institute that 83 global brands including Apple, Samsung, h&m, and all these big brands that we know, are directly or indirectly involved in this has been proven. So they profit off the labor they profit of what we call halaal organ harvesting. Now, obviously, Chef, you know, your fifth, there's no such thing as hollow organs. But this is what this this this term has been coined, because many people in the in the Gulf area, opt in, there are many, many commercials and hospital ads on YouTube, you can find and I'll send you those links, where you will actually see Muslim campaigns and mess messages in
where where hospitals are being destroyed. You've got this hospital out there, saying that you find Muslim masajid on hospitals, in hospitals in the inner parts of China specifically to cater for those rich Arab.
The people in the Gulf that go and get their hallel organs because apparently what they're asking for is they want organs from Muslims. They don't want organs from people that have you know, consumed alcohol and pork and they have a database. Speaking to a few concentration camp detainees, what they told me is the first thing that the Chinese the authorities do is before they even go to the camps, they check their eyes they take their blood on a daily on a daily basis. They are given injections so they are put into this database and they have all of these records of these people and these people are ready to go you know 30 day money back guarantee if this that organ doesn't work.
So there is this going on and you can simply typing Hello organ harvesting. You can see the many interviews you can see the the testimony that former weaker surgeons who literally we have one surgeon by the name of animate coffee, who currently resides in London. He basically said they they have they went to execute a weaker prisoner and they purposely shot him in the shoulder. And while he was alive, he was forced to extract the man's organs while he was still breathing and
Now the Chinese in general and and and the Muslims are the area the and even according to Chinese statistics, the number of people volunteering to to give their organs is very very very very low. However it is Turkistan, the least populous region in China even though it's the largest, you have Express transfer lanes and all the images you can see on
on the internet Express transfer lanes in airports, where it says for organs to go through quickly. Now this must mean God knows how many organs are being harvested for you to have Express transfer lanes put into airports.
So wait are salon just to be clear here, obviously from fifth perspective, if a person voluntarily willingly wants to donate his organs to another human being his brother or sister this has held on, but the minute money comes involved, right? Obviously it becomes how long you're not allowed to sell your organs. But in this case, so that our viewers understand this is not even a person very desperate, wanting $10,000 for a kidney and then selling it on the black market. That is how long this is to a level that is depraved. This is the government taking over. This is the government removing any notion of volunteering any notion of it's the government profiteering it's not even the
money isn't even going to, even though it would be held on anyway. But, you know, we understand the person is forced by circumstance to do that. It's not an excuse, but we understand psychologically. But in this case, as our viewers you know, need to be aware of the government has basically used our brothers and sisters to be a breeders or with a Valera with a buildup of just Oregon's to sell them to the highest bidder. And then the issue comes on you just you just mentioned that they needed to execute a prisoner. But see, here's the conundrum. When the money is coming in to that level, they're going to find more and more prisoners to execute if you get my point, right, until it
becomes a very dubious line between a genuine Of course by the way, this this isn't as if the prisoner is a murderer or a rapist know what would be the crime of this prisoner treason, the crime would be to not want the state to to interfere in his or her private life. So automatically, the charges are trumped up. But now you have the added pressure that hey, there's some rich guy and this needs to be said by them as well then unfortunately, it looks like a lot of the people that are coming in, I route the villa but they're our own brothers and sisters. Now not all there does seem to be you're the experts and undiscovered but when I read, there does seem to be an underground
black market that is open to any bidder. But as you correctly point out, a good percentage Elon knows how much are coming from countries that are supposed to be bastions of Islam, you know, and I was a Billa one wonders like you know, it's just for those types of people then to well, lahia dignified death is infinitely better than what you think you're doing I was able to face a law with a clean heart that malfunctioned inshallah Shahada, for you to go and purchase a heart or with a villa or to purchase a
nice, even purchasing is stealing exactly this. It's not even theft. It's like It's like fat. It's like, you're hijacking the body. It's not even just a theft. It's like the government is using you like a breeding animal or with a Billa. Can there be something more sinister, then a government using human beings like guinea pigs and selling their organs to the highest bidder? So I don't even understand how a Muslim can pass. I mean, again, I've read the same you are some of you have interviewed people, I've only read on the news. I cannot imagine somebody walking in knowing because you know, they're not even they're going to China, you know, they know exactly what's going on. You
can't even say router, Bill Gen. You can't even say they're going to the Turkistan prophecies, those kids in Providence, they know exactly what is going on. And I just, I find it so difficult to understand that how could you, you know, give your own money? How could you go to another land that you know, your Muslim brothers and sisters are doing this, and then think that you're going to live a guilt free a conscience free life and the quality of your life is going to be worth living with. So it's something that we need to point out that it's not for the first time that we find that the stab in the back is not coming from just an outsider, we have to be clear here, what's happening in
Yemen, what's happening to our scholars around the world. This is why so many of us become so cynical and bitter. And frankly, this is why interpretations of Islam that are not mainstream and I don't want to be too explicit, become acceptable and palatable, because there's frustration there's an anger that there's just no hope. But you see, our religion is not based on emotionalism and no matter how bad it gets, we have to say on a level of a pseudo and we have to stay within you know, the the realms of the Shetty, along with Stan alone. I mean that you really hit the nail on the head when you mentioned the word bureaucracy, reminding of Hannah Arendt when she was talking about when
she wrote about the trouble
of Eichmann going back to the Nazis, she called it the banality of evil. You know, these are people who are just civil servants, you're expecting to find some monster there who's, you know, frothing at the mouth, but you just find a highly efficient civil servant. But the machine is just geared towards, you know, this, this this oppression on a larger scale. Anytime a genocide takes place in the world, anytime something of this nature happens, the notion is that the people perpetrating it are not human anymore. But what we discover is that quite On the contrary, they are you wouldn't be able to tell that they're monsters, because what they've done is, it's not as if they taken the
humanity out of themselves, listen to this, they've taken the humanity out of their victims. What they've done is dehumanize their victims. And by doing that, they can go about as if they're living a normal life, there was a picture that went viral last month, about a bunch of Nazis walking out of the concentration camp, men and women flirting and having tea. And it went viral, because you would never have thought that these are the guards at the concentration camp, right? But now that they're outside, just like any young group of men and women, you know, going to the bar doing whatever you would never understand, like you said, the banality of evil. How could that happen? Because there
were years and decades of indoctrination, that these people are no longer people, which is what is happening in the you know, Xinjiang province for the longest time. And unfortunately, it has begun in segments of Europe and other and other places in America as well, nowhere near we're not even comparing, but I'm saying we in the West should learn that these notions of assimilation of integration of our values, this is a very dangerous talk that is headed towards a direction that is not palatable. And you see China on one end of the spectrum, but the brutal fact is the four rights in our countries are in the beginning of that spectrum, right. And if we allow the four rights to,
to achieve their version, you know of society, this is a stepping stone to what we see in this current regime in China alone was done.
Something goes to me again, reminding you to head over to Islam 20 on sedar.com, forward slash donate to keep the lights on on Islam 21 We pride ourselves on being independent and being funded by the grassroots community. It's not even just the far right I mean, it's even kind of mainstream liberalism
is say the word See, she said,
you know, Islamophobia, for example, has passed the dinner table test. And like 10 1012 years ago, he that these, that the whole war on terror, it's actually a broader discourse. And the Chinese are just instrumentalizing that discourse to do these things on a mass scale, whereas this exact same discourse is being used was was, you know, made by neo cons around George Bush, for example, Tony Blair, was is being implemented in China in France right now. And even I think today in the UK, the
former Home Secretary Sajid Javid, a brown personal Muslim background is saying, you know, Francis, right, this he even they even use the word separatism, Islamism, separatism, etc, etc. So it's the same continuum, it's just the kind of logical conclusion of that. So we don't like to think about it, but there is always a possibility that, you know, things can move down that continuum. And unfortunately, it's not just non Muslim regimes, it's even, you know, we've seen
kind of, quote unquote, Muslim majority Muslim states, you know, banning, for example, the, or using the word terrorism and and, and so forth to describe Muslim groups like the Muslim Brotherhood and so forth. We've seen the the kind of unfortunate kind of fatawa I won't, I won't press you on that too much, if you don't want to talk about that. But there is that underlying premise that the problematizing of Muslims on the basis of not assimilating to what the state wants them to assimilate to. And if we allow that to, you know, and I said, Are you very correctly pointed out the misuse and abuse of the war on terror. This proved to be an A an amazingly Machiavellian moment for
many regimes around the globe. Unfortunately, many of them are Muslim as well, to to use this argument that any entity that is not in accordance with our version of society is essentially on the other side, you're either with us or against us that type of rhetoric. And it's very true, you know, China jumped on the bandwagon. And unfortunately, and as the manager pointed out, as well, a number of oil rich Muslim countries as well, they have also jumped on the bandwagon. And it's very clear that this discourse of the war on terror, it's it's being used in a very negative political matters and patola if we had only focused on, you know, actual people that are killing innocent civilians.
The world wouldn't be a very different place, if we have focused on people that are just going into marketplaces and randomly killing people that don't deserve to die. I think you know, 99.99% of the globe would be on one side and point 01 percent of the other side. But because of this, you know, the entire parameters have been diluted, and that is why, see, here's the irony. The people on the other side, the neo cons of the government regimes, they don't understand that this tactic is going to backfire. People like us are in the middle in the sense, I do not support, you know, state terrorism. And I don't support local terrorism, either. I am against these NGO terrorist groups, not
into these sub national terrorist groups. And I'm also against, you know, the regimes that are clamping down on human rights, we're trying to have that middle talk here. But by eliminating the validity of a middle, and by claiming you're either with us or against us, what people unfortunately then do is they then gravitate towards the extreme sides. So all of this rhetoric, and all of these tactics are going to fuel a type of violence that is going to come back and form all of us. And it's just an infinite cycle, that I don't have any there's no as of yet. There's no glimmer at the end of the tunnel, even though theologically believe everything's going to work out for the best, but we
don't see it right now. But we would put our trust in a lesson.
I'm sorry, let me ask you this. You You mentioned, you know, that the history of the Uighur people in the province,
that region? And I don't I wouldn't blame them for obviously one thing, I think that completely deserve independence and so forth. But are there movements to overtly call for independence from the Chinese state? Is that what China is using as an excuse? Is that what the difference is between wiggers and other kind of Chinese groups that weren't didn't face the same level of oppression? within China? Yeah.
posts, post culture evolution? No. The thing is, if from day one, right, if from day one, if China had lived up to their promise of giving the week as an autonomous region, there wouldn't be an independence movement outside of his Turkistan. And when and many, some people may disagree with me, but the only reason now we see a lot of activists coming through is because of concentration camps. It's not 2017 where suddenly we had all this oppression, no, this oppression has been going for seven years. But it had to reach concentration camps for everyone to wake up and speak up. Because generally speaking, the vast majority of Uyghurs.
Basically, the policies were, unless you were an out right, protester or activists
going against the Chinese regime, your family was fine, unless you were doing that. But now you have people that have, you know, let's just say even if you were if even if they were to use the excuse of Islam, where they practice Islam, well, we have people going into these camps, who don't even know what Bismillah means, like the basics of Islam, or they don't even know how to do Salah, we have these people going to the camps. We have people that people that are not that we have people that have even like assimilated, they've worked for the Communist Party, most of their life. On the verge of retirement. I've already retired. Dean's of universities, singers, actors, comedians, like
the elites of society, who have never stepped a foot wrong following the Lord. This is when we guess, as a whole realized that you know what independence is now far? Like, it's been like, you know, like,
even if I were to back down now, no, because this, as I mentioned before, often having something hardening like no way like we we need independence to survive. Yeah, it seems like a great error on the part of, of China to, you know, the more you press on, the more you create that sentiment, that that wants justice and retribution.
Yeah, I mean, there are many I'm sure that there are many peoples around the world who are living under a government Canadians, Americans, Australians, their native around the world state. Generally speaking, you don't see those people calling for independence, because generally speaking, they're given their rights. So if they were right now, just like a and
we need independence to survive. So that's why we need to call for independence. We've always been independent. But yeah, it's easy. It's either independence or literally death. And it's not just a clickbait that's or salon. Would you happen to know, the latest percentage of actual leaguers and Han Chinese in the province, like I know, around Was it 50 years ago, it was like almost 95% fully, you know, ethnically wiggers, or the people that used to live there for centuries. So a very, very small percentage of the Han
I know in the last, as you said, 20 years, there's been a huge, you know, government plan. It's literally think of the Palestinians and the European Jews that came in in the 1930s or 40s. I think of that. Now that's happening. So what are the latest statistics in terms of the the broader population being just kept in by the authorities and put in? So according to the Chinese statistics, the Han Chinese make up about 46 47% of the population. Yeah, the league is popular Yeah, though, with the weak is make up about half of the population together with Kazakh banks and other tiny minorities. So it's literally 5050 according to Chinese statistics,
organization organizations on the outside, we range our statistics anywhere between 20 to 35 million Uyghurs This is what we say. But it's very difficult to to get census, but the Chinese are saying the weekers themselves are around 11 to 12 million. And then the Chinese are also around 10 to 12 million. Now, so this, okay, so this is like the total population, according to Communist Party statistics. Now, for the longest time, the UN has been saying over a million in the camps. US State Department has been saying two to 3 million in the camps. We guess we're guesstimating anywhere between 45 million camps, but six weeks ago,
China's official white paper, they were, they were boasting in their media, saying that they had educated, educated, meaning they were in these camps, exactly what the Nazis said about the Jews that they were educating them. And you have the same sort of propaganda films sewing and playing football and basketball. They said they had educated 1.3 million Uighurs per year from 2014 to 2019.
If you include 2020, that's 8 million. Now, if, according to if the Chinese statistics are correct about the Uighur population, if there's 8 million in the camps, or 8 million went through the system,
what the last 3 million you got kids, you got older people, and even kids, what's going to happen to all these kids, when the parents are in the camps. They're also sent to boarding schools where they're indoctrinated. You know, from a young age, just like you send your kids to madrasahs, teaching them for an unfair over there, they're teaching them communism and to worship Xi Jinping. And that your risk does not come from the sky, your risk comes from working hard. This is what their children are taught, forced to speak Mandarin, forced to give up their names that the Muslim names that that they were given. And so statistics wise, that's what's happening. And according to
one concentration camp attorney by the name of mythical person, during her stay, she witnessed
she witnessed in a three month period, nine people die just in herself. Now, according to Adrian zenz, who is a scholar on this issue, who has been researching going through the Chinese are going through open source doing his research, and it has been accepted by
major universities and, you know, US, Canada, UK, Australia. He estimates anywhere between 500 to 1000 camps. And a lot of these camps are the size of football stadiums. So you can imagine, in a recent article, written by the Radio Free Asia, they recently found at least two camps with crematoriums next to them, panel. So Allah knows how many people have died. Right now I have many friends still, to this day, they have not been able, I have one close friend, she, she hasn't been able to contact her mother or father and her two brothers for the past three years. And she has nothing to deal with, you know, terrorism or extremism or any just normal abiding citizens. Well,
and, you know, to, to understand how repressive this regime is, and so on, you are wherever it is far better than any of us here. But, you know, there are close friends of mine here in America, Uyghurs who are being extremely apolitical simply because of what's going on, right. And even they are being harassed by the Chinese consulates and embassies in America. I mean, imagine a friend of mine, you know, got a call after he called his mother up and said, is everything well care? How are you doing? Okay? And the mother said, Everything is fine. Don't worry, we're all fine. He got a call from the embassy telling him to come and visit the embassy. We want to talk to you, right? And he
has dual citizenship and hamdulillah. So he refused to do that. But can you imagine you know, the amount of pressure every phone call is being monitored. After that phone call. He told me he was not able to get in touch with his mother for weeks and now it's been years that complete cutoff has happened.
And so people that are from this province, this ethnicity, our Muslim brothers and sisters, regardless of where they are in the world, I'm sure our salon, you as your you as well and your immediate family have had these indirect, you know, social pressure media or maybe even more direct threats. So if they're doing this in western lens, what do you think is happening, you know, over there, that gives us a kind of
a glimpse into the fact that the Chinese state still actually cares about its its public image to some extent or not. I mean, the arsenal, footballer, I forgot how to I don't know how to pronounce his name.
Mesut ozil, Mashallah. He, you know, took a stand, he was putting, you know, putting putting stuff on social media and using his platform to raise awareness about the plight of the weaker brothers and sisters. But the Chinese state responded very viciously, you know, they they deleted him from the Chinese version of, I think, FIFA or something that computer game they did. He deleted his fan pages on Chinese social media, and, you know, issuing all of these things that so it does, actually, because I want to move on to some kind of practical, you know, steps for us on it. So making a noise, it seems from outsider's perspective, it does make some kind of impact. Is that correct?
Muslim? Yes, definitely. Even during, you know, as you mentioned, talk is focused on we've been attacked by what you may have heard as the 50 cent social media army, they are literally paid by the government to troll and attack your page, bring down the rating, sensor use shadow block you. So we had that. And there is an article about this simply type in pokies takistan. And cnn wrote about this so that they got wind of it as well. Many other organizations have gone through the same thing. And as you mentioned, we always say,
you know, we are making this noise. But to be honest, we want to be proven wrong. As a chef mentioned, when he went into the region, he was followed, and by the secret police and whatnot, each time people do want to go, you know, for example, I always give the example of Iran. So you know, for example, then you can program, they're like, Alright, coming, investigators check us out, so that they don't get further sanctions by the US and other Western countries. China's not able to do this. No, indeed, We want independent investigation. So China is not letting us in. Every time a news outlet wants to go in and try and talk to the people or you know, do something they're always
followed, they are harassed and their documentary instead of trying to find out what's happening, the documentary 95% of the time, ends up being about how they were followed most of the time. So make that noise, you know, share that video, right, that one comment. You know, this is the most halau legal thing that you could do. Another thing that I would give advice to my Muslim brothers and sisters, Danny May Allah subhanho wa Taala, you know, protect all the Muslims around the world. However, right now, the wiggle issue is the only issue in the world where the right, the left. Atheists aren't on atheists in the Western world. Atheists, Christians, Jews, Muslims are able to
come together on this issue.
They're able to come together and Danny the common enemies, Communist China. So and like I, as we all know, I'm sure we've experienced some sort of censorship when we, you know, post something about Palestine against Israel, or we post something, you know, but with the Uighur issue, your posts are going to be boosts and you're going to be supported.
on my show, I had former Trump advisors on my show, I've had national Tea Party movement, people on my show, you will not believe how people are coming together like SubhanAllah. Like, if you want to do this is an actually a safe way. You're not going to be targeted by the FBI for doing this. You're going to get so much more awards and the West. Like I said, the West is supportive of this panel. Ah, yeah. Yeah. And I think one of the main things in our favor as well, is the slogan never again from the Holocaust, that we really do need to hold them up to their words, the world has said never again, you know, we have all agreed after the Holocaust, that we're not going to turn a blind eye.
Okay, that was what the I grew up with that type of rhetoric. You're not there yet throughout the 80s and 90s. That's what the impression that was given, and we thought, it's never going to happen again. Now we say okay, it's not to the level of actual death of 6 million people. But as you yourself said, it is one degree less than that. And if and when death were to begin, if we're doing nothing now, then we've already turned a blind eye. So I think we have a lot of things working in our favor. And in shallow time if we can all do our bit here. But really, the question comes on and I know it's a really awkward question. If you feel you don't want to answer it or it's up to you,
but should we be boycotting
specific products. I don't want to mention names. But should we be boycotting brands? Or dot dot dot that? Is it going to actually have an impact? Or is that simply because
here's my point. Muslims unfortunately don't seem to have many Muslims don't seem to have a systematic coherent philosophy of boycotting, especially for the Zionist Jews, for example, we all want to support a legitimate BDS, but they bring in ludicrous brands, you know, Starbucks design this and this design is and that's we all know that any intelligent person knows nothing's going to happen, you might have a better life and heart bigger budget if you don't buy Starbucks, but you know, and it's definitely cheap coffee as well as another point. But I mean, nothing's going to happen to the Palestinians, if you buy or don't buy. A lot of emotionalism comes in. So my question
to our salon is, is there specific? You know, are there specific products and agencies that we should be able to boycott? And if so, what are they? And if not, then what's the alternative? Is there coordinated movement? Yes, right now, there is something called a we got forced labor act.
And this is this is being passed in US law. So please, American citizens, and I'm sure the UK citizens can come up with something similar, where you can talk to representatives, and try and get that passed. Because some of these brands, unfortunately, many people will not technically be able to live without, so we're talking Apple, and many brands like this. If Apple they could literally move their their factories, you know, to Bangladesh or, you know, Thailand or, you know, other countries, so, and Apple is lobbying against this bill, if you would believe Yeah, so we caught where you can, I mean, do your best
you know, we say boycott, but at the same time,
there is something better where if a law were to be passed, those countries will not be able to operate according to US law. Because there is some sort of slavery being involved. And so if you want a win win situation, have that law passed so that your favorite used to be abused your favorite brands because those brands would be making their products in other countries? If not then yes, boycotts do it, look what happened in France, you know, McCrone had to sort of take a step back and say, you know, what, you know, I'm not against Muslims, but freedom of speech in large data. And so it does work. But you know, France is not China. You know, our, our whole lives are dependent on
China, do your best because if we tell people, you go to the extreme end, boycott, that one they're not going to do, it's going to be difficult. Do your bit, you know, there may be a toy that you're going to buy for, you know, whatever festival you're celebrating, I mean, if you can do without buying from China or buying that, you know, that T shirt or that pant pants, you know, do your bit slowly slowly so it's a many people will not be able to go cold turkey, but sooner or later, we'll get that
labor act you guys should look that up.
So welcome, guys. Last reminder, I promise head over to Islam 20 on sedar.com forward slash donate to help this movement get to the next level. So we have genuine high quality media articulating Islam in the 21st century, and developing confident Muslims impacting the world for the better.
We always look for like a quick fix solution, but it requires millions of people doing something small to sometimes make a huge change, you know. So well we'll put some links to that in the description and get our salon yourself to write something as well for you know what, exactly we can do. I think boycotting Apple is cutting a bit too close to shift the so called these my own, you know, sensitivities. If it needs to be done, it will be done. That's why I'm asking our salon again, I'm being brutally honest here, right? If that's the sacrifice, that's of how to love he would have first world sacrifice, well law he would have first will sacrifice to, to move from one operating
system to another any, you know, it's not something we like to do. But if that's gonna that's why I'm asking you that very blunt question. And I appreciate your answer, you know, yeah, actually shift. It's actually all the operating system, you would literally not be able to use any. Yeah, unless you found like one from, you know, a startup from the Middle East or something literally all Samsung, everyone's involved in that. I mean, that's what I'm thinking and because we need some kind of long, longer term strategy, because Muslim states so one of the things I wanted to ask you was, you know, what, the Muslim states, for example, do and they're so in kind of a threshold in the
whole Chinese system, whether it's Pakistan where there's Turkey, whether it's the Gulf states, you know, there's such a reliance on Chinese products that it's, you know, what, what do we got brothers and sisters, I mean, so general brothers and sisters around the world, we can we and we should
Give messages of support support, you know, increase the awareness of the plight and so forth and take on these boycott and, and lobby our governments and MPs and so forth. But what what do we good brothers and sisters want the states, Muslim states to do?
Ah, the Muslim states to live by Islam. Like, for example, we have weekers in Saudi Arabia about to be deported back to China. I mean, they could easily not have them. We had wiggers deported from Egypt. We had weeks deported from Turkey, you know, a place where we have ethnic and ethnic and religious ties Pakistan all over these Turkic states. Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, that an argument that's a lot of people who deny the Uighur Holocaust. That's what I call it that the Holocaust is that well, how can we don't see people leave leave in the hundreds of thousands on mass, like what's happening in Syria? Well, brother where they're going to go, because all of the
all of the outside states, they're just going to catch them and give them back. But we did have thousands of weekers go through the south of China into Malaysia. And they got caught in not they some of them made it to Malaysia and Indonesia. But a lot of them caught in got caught in tight prisons, we still have some brothers and sisters there. A lot of them were taken by Turkey, some went to other countries. So we did have people fleeing, but not to the amount like Syria, because Syria, you have Turkey, you have Lebanon, you have all these other countries willing to take them and take care of them. And you go to Greece and all this. But Turkey is such a high tech
surveillance, military state, you know, second strongest state in the world, you're not going to have that movement. So
yeah, sorry, I forgot the question. But
so Muslim states,
you know, the professors taught us that, you know, we got almost one body in it. And we really need to live by that. put pressure on put pressure on China, you know, in those world forums, the UN, because we have Subhan, Allah like at the UN, we have a lot of Muslim countries, Northern Europe, Australia, Canada, America, signing letters,
against China's oppression against the wiggers. But you have Muslim countries, North African countries, countries of the Gulf, supporting, you know, there was a speech around one year ago or one and a half years ago by Dr. Zakir Naik, he said, All right. One thing you could be silent on the matter. All right, but now you're going to go ahead and sign letters supporting, you know, a regime like this. And so this is what we want acknowledgment that there is oppression and to do something about it, I feel it must, it must feel like betrayal from from Muslim states. But unfortunately, a lot of Muslim states are built on the trail. And it seems to be a, you know, not to just kind of
bash for the sake of bashing. But it seems to be a widespread issue. There's also an issue of practically, if a Muslim state for whatever reason, it's so dependent on China now. Like the ones in its vicinity, or, you know, if China and Chinese regime would decided they could turn off electricity, for example. So we need, we do need to think of a longer term strategy, I think of strengthening the independence of Muslim states and the inter cooperation among Muslim states so that eventually, they can get to a level where they can have a develop a backbone, and, you know, do these types of things because I think those statements about, you know, coming out into support
China, I think, that was just written by the Chinese and said, you know, hey, we want you to sign this. And if you have no
actual genuine, you know, power autonomy of your own,
you have to just do as you're told right, shift. So again, I mean, I know time is almost up as well, I wanted to just put this in as well. Well, it's very important that we get angry at our own regimes and all governments is very important. I'm never going to stop doing that. At the same time. I was not going to ask us about them. And we have to be careful of using them as a punching bag that makes us feel good as we do nothing else other than punch the bag. Yeah. Unfortunately, all too often, us Muslims. We just want to just vent out, and we have every right to vent out and we should vent out on our own. And yes, that's legitimate, but it is one element of a much broader picture. And anyone
who finds himself just venting and doing nothing else, frankly, has failed. That's not the goal. And you know, if you read the seer of the Prophet system, one thing that really struck me one thing that really, it just it just empowers me every time you know, correct me if I'm wrong, anybody out there. That's why
This correct me if I'm wrong. I have not found a single instance not one where the profitsystem complained and grovelled about treatment of others to him, not once. And to me thinking about that, it's because it exudes a dignity and if faith in Allah subhana wa Tada, let people do what they want. I have a loss of Hannah Montana. Others did the Sahaba but the prophets ism Never once did he say, How can you do this to me? Not once not to the people of thought if not to people of Mecca, his own kith and kin. He complained to Allah afterthought. He complained to the LA Zoo agent on the hedgerow the Quran came down, we know it hurts you, right? The Koran came down, that you might even
die of depression I like about her and upset, right? That it's just it's meaning that there's a very harsh word use but the grief is overwhelming is probably a better way to translate that, right? It's overwhelming grief that might cause you know, a disaster or calamity. But he never once grovelled in front of any other model. And that is to show us not that is how long because we just have to do that. But to show us the power of God, to show us why he is the rasulillah system. And we are as followers, right? To raise the bar so high to indicate what is dignity. So it's very important we get our angry out to all of these people, these sell out these scholars for dollars, these regimes
oil rich, very important. Yes, get that done. Now, now that we've done that, right, now, let's move on to doing something that we can actually actually cause a change in our immediate circle, and no doubt, influence, yes, our sphere of influence, do whatever we can Facebook, social media, Twitter, whatever we can do our own family and friends, soft pressure on our own governments to acknowledge this. But you know, at the end of the day, here's the point of my concluding message and, and, you know, feel free to other questions. But my conclusion is, is as follows. We might not see the light at the end of the tunnel, we might not see the Uyghurs fully fried, we might not see the
Palestinians living in peace, we might not see the world achieve, you know, the complete journey peace that we are promised under the end of times, you know, we might not see that. But Allah subhanho wa Taala did not create us to see that a love created us to do whatever we can, so that when we meet him, we can say, Oh Allah, this is what I did about the Uighur situation. This is what it about the Palestinians This is what about the Sunni refugees, and if we're able to show something, and the very least that we can show is a genuine concern in our hearts, the very least we can show is to raise our hands and make dua to Allah subhana wa tada to have a genuine sense of
connection with every oppressed people around the world, every single person, Muslim, or Muslim, and frankly, even non Muslim, anybody who is oppressed, there should be some sense of, Hey, I wish that wasn't happening. I wish I could do something to help. And maybe in that genuine wish, is our salvation. And maybe on the judgment, we'll have just a bit of exclusive Allah, I couldn't help the weekers. But I thought about them left and right, they were constantly in my doors. I wish I could do more. But I spoke to them to the people about them, I you know, whatever little I could do, and perhaps in that is our salvation. And as we live our lives, and we find these causes, and we fight
for them in whatever little way in shallow to our lives get to nobility of purpose and a higher meaning. And in doing that, we will gain the pleasure of Allah subhanho wa Taala. So it's not a optimism that is going to make us feel good in this world. But in Charlottes, and optimism that will make our life worth living. And it's an optimism that we will see the effects of what we done in the era. And if we see in this world, I don't have the data, because again, how many of the Sahaba died before the conquest of Makkah. Right? How many of them, you know, my own namesake? Yes, you know, and his wife, so maybe they didn't live to see the fruits of their sacrifice in this dunya but
inshallah, what they saw of the Africa and then their names come down in legacy. And that's really our goal that a lot of xojo write down our names that we did whatever we could, and then we're gonna meet the rewards into here after inshallah psychologic. I mean, I'll just add that there's no Muslim or anyone living now watching this, that is not able to do something, there's always, you know, even because everything, that's the older information that's, you know, shown to everyone in this day of social media, and everything is all algorithmically controlled. So each and every person has the opportunity to help something some important news go viral. If we see some important news about that
we've got a situation and we just scrolled past it. That's giving a signal to those social media algorithms, for example, that, that media, what's shown on your timelines was shown in your newsfeed. It's giving a signal that this isn't something important or engaging. So we'll show it to fewer and fewer people. If we pause on that. If we spend a few seconds, we click the link, we read what's going on, we share it with comment, etc, etc engage with that thing. It gives more and more signals to the algorithms to show that thing to more and more people. So
Every single one of us, we have the opportunity to help important news go viral because naturally when we see something that that displeases us, we see something that said, we want to just kind of come to dissonance, right, we just want to block it out, we just want to ignore it and move on. Right? We want to minimize that little window or change the channel or whatever. So we have to fight this. And, you know, do our part in the, in the kind of this algorithmically controlled world. So I wanted to just round off by just consolidating a few of the practical things that you both have discussed. So obviously, keeping the that we get issue in our minds and our hearts making to our
brothers and sisters.
messaging them via people like yourself Upsilon giving support, messages of support and moral kind of solidarity, because we shouldn't underestimate the power that moral support gives to brothers and sisters. Even Allah gave moral support to the prophets on so let me know when he said
no one will call me Omar Hassan not intervene, it might be my genome, white knuckle, Aquila, nazima, prophecy, some allies praising him you're not a madman, you know you have the highest turn of character and so forth.
Also, you know, when you mentioned the Uyghur forced labor act to check that out people in the UK in particular you can we can send messages of
messages to our phone or call Foreign and Commonwealth Office to issue a statement our local MPs For example, I will put these things in an Islam Trinity article as well inshallah and just to consolidate that
look for look out for subscribe to TT subs look look out for coordinated boycott campaigns. I saw something about the Winter Olympics for example, that could be a potentially big campaign that we're going to be inshallah helping if if that's if that's still happening. So so going ahead
the you know, we were going to we were organizing with support from my era we were there was going to be a protest in London outside the Chinese Embassy but it was postponed due to the coronavirus pandemic
but that will be going head inshallah soon when when you know when the lockdown is lifted and you're trying try and do our best to get the and get the get the word out. So that kind of head on for joining us up so you gave you last words or slang? What's your final message to the brothers and sisters watching?
I want to say even before, you know I obviously do and all those practical things. But another thing brothers and sisters and I'm sure Dr. Hardy will agree with me and other shoe and other people that give Juma hoppers is that brother says we have a lot of brothers and sisters who would tune into Islamic channels like this. Who don't pray, who don't practice Islam, but Mashallah they're still Muslims. And I just want to say, you guys are living freely in the Western world you have freedom to pray, you have freedom to have your hair your hijab too fast. And I say please turn back to Islam because we have brothers and sisters in his Turkistan that want to pray that one too fast, that one
to give birth and name their children Mohammed. But on a daily basis, thousands of Mohammed's are being aborted. Thousands of Muhammad's are having they're having their organs harvested thousands of fatness and ashes having their organs harvested. So please turn back to Islam because you are free to practice your Islam and will live loving if the week is had the freedom that you had panel law. So please be grateful for you what you have. You guys have a voice and Allah will ask you what you did with that voice. And that's my final message.
Because I cannot fail fed brothers on that. On that note, I'd like to thank you both again she also cloudy and
brother Upsilon Hidayat, check them out in the comments below in the description below. We'll put their respective talks and and websites that talk about these things in the description below inshallah, and as I can offer them food for to you all watching at home today. If you enjoyed the discussion, if you like the podcast, please give a like and share, get involved in the comments. And let us know your thoughts on the matter. Please do try and share this news and all of the stuff that's going to be coming out about the legal situation on assumption in C and elsewhere. And until next time, duck norfair and I've been your host Manuel assalamu aleikum wa rahmatullah wa barakato.