Interview with Ustadha Fatima Baraktullah – Surah Yusuf, Covid & Other Topics
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smilla and hamdu Lillah wa salatu salam ala rasulillah dear brothers and sisters, welcome to this m feed podcast episode which is taking place online in which my guest happens to be one of the teachers I've benefited from over the years. We'll be discussing some of the matters that we would like to know the answers to. The big picture matters today at hamdulillah I have a special guest. My guest today is Islamic theologian and scholar. Chef er so Cody.
salaam aleikum wa rahmatullah How you doing?
And hamdulillah behave. chef, Chef, Yasser is Dean of Academic Affairs at the Islamic seminary of America. And before that, you know, he completed his PhD at Yale. And also, even before that, he his undergraduate and postgraduate study at the Islamic University of Medina
does not go ahead and check for joining us.
Thank you for having me on your show from the law. I'm proud by the way to know you as a student for what is the first class you took 15 set 12 years, I mean, it's been a long time, right in London. So hamdulillah I'm proud to see you as well. You know, accomplish Alhamdulillah a lot and have your own articles and podcasts and doing a lot of data. And of course, you come from a family of knowledge. So and hamdulillah. This is to be expected at hamdulillah from someone of your background hamdulillah. So I'm proud to be on your show. And I'm happy to see all the good that you're doing.
Oh, just like a handshake. Yeah, I was actually going to start by saying, I think Paul's first cross, actually on Hodge, which was how much of it must have been 2000? I think we're
okay. You don't add up, but I did. I didn't know you did it with me. Okay, Michelle. Yeah. When I say I'll pause cross, I don't think I don't mean literally. But I was there on that hedge. Were you one of the Muslims? For al Qaeda? I don't know if you remember. Remember, it's all a blur and more than a lot more hedges. And I couldn't remember. But yes, every year I would go as a graduate student, not even my undergraduate years. So you did in the year? 2000? Yeah, I believe it was 2000 I have no memory of the exact hedge per se, but maybe some other time you can jog my memory about that particular year. hamdulillah Yeah. And you would you were doing the doodles in the evenings.
You know, in Medina, you were a student there you you and your wife were there. Mashallah. So, that was the first time and then I think the first proper class that I attended was Sera, Sera Youssef mosquito head. You did that
was my debut in London. I have a lot of fond memories. That was my first trip to London. And yes, most your tauheed
2000 2001, something like that. Yeah, yes. I remember I was expecting so. And then I named my son Yousef. I named my son youth that was born after that class two,
which is a very inspiring class. And I remember he also did a talk about the slander of eyeshadow, the Lana Yes. And the since then, I've been very interested in the life of a shirt of the line. Hmm. And so I've recently been teaching a course about her life in a lot of detail. And I think probably that was the beginning of, you know, that journey. So it was like a lot clearer than that.
And recently, I think you're very soon going to be releasing a book about the tafsir series, actually, I just handed in the final edits. So inshallah, tada, it should be being it should be going to print literally within a week or so inshallah. So expect it to be out very soon, inshallah. So this is going to be a book that is based upon over 20 years of going back to the user, so your class that you attended, the class that I taught, was the first time that I professionally prepared like, you know, go back to the def series and write it out myself. And ever since then, I've taught it multiple times. And, you know, just done it on on satellite channels in my massagin that every
city I've been in, I've done pseudo use of every city for the last 20 years. So I've read a lot of series of us who used to have and I've
had time to think about it. So I'm very happy that this book is coming out. It's been a long time since I've been excited about one of my books, I have to be honest here, a lot of times you write the book, okay, um, that is good. But my book is still my favorite, it has a soft spot in my heart. And I think this is going to be my second favorite after that I really, like emotionally investing, like really thinking and whatnot. So this is that book, the book is also there, I mean, all of my books that have that I but you know, there's that extra that you really, you live the material, right? And I think this this sorta has always been one of my favorites. So I'm in sha Allah,
optimistic that inshallah Tada, this book is going to serve or is going to, let's say open up the opportunity for many Muslims to become reacquainted with the surah and to inshallah find benefit from the Tafseer tangent said in sha Allah Subhana Allah, I think there's something amazing about your use of in that every time I've studied it, so I studied it a number of times with different shields, at different stages of life. The first time I yeah, the first time I heard it was my dad on ombre. Like, in MK years ago, when I was a kid, my dad exposed us to this, he told us the story. And ever since then, every time I've we've covered it, it's as if there are new lessons, new openings,
new things you notice, depending on what's happening in your life at the time. It's a It's a story of humanity, the raw, you know, jealousy, anger, grief, love, passion, everything, like how can you not connect with some aspect, and as you go through the cycle of life, you connect with different aspects, right? So some handler, the sender will connect with the brothers of use of for example, right? You know, the one, you know, lusting is going to connect with the wife, you know, the one, you know, losing a child or parent is going to connect. So every single niche of society is going to have something in this the one after power is going to be you know, the king or the disease,
whatever, so many different facets. It really, it's a, it's a microcosm, that, that opens up the window of every single emotion that a parent feels a child feels a human being feels. So I'm, like you said, the Buddha has always resonated. And ironically, I actually just wrote the introduction two weeks ago of this book, and I mentioned that that instruction that pseudo use of was my introduction to the Quran, as a 11 year old child, the first time I really was impacted by the Quran. And again, I mean, I'm a child, you know, so I mean, the first time I read the Quran in English, obviously, because I didn't know Arabic growing up, and it actually impacted me what sort
of use of and I mentioned the story of my discovering of sort of use of as a 11 year old kid, and and ever since then, so yes, all of us have, have had a special journey with the foreign virus with the use of an even with life, to be honest.
SubhanAllah that's so amazing, because I was 11 as well, when I first heard it. My
My dad told me and I just couldn't sleep, you know, such an amazing story that I wrote, I do, really,
it's in the introduction, you can see this already been sent to the publishers that that night, my mind was just filled with images and just the, you know, the boy, what stuck to me the most was the boy in the well, because I was 11 like, you know, the boy in the world. I just like all night thinking about the story of use of whatnot. And ever since then, it's been a fascinating journey for me and hamdulillah Mashallah, interesting, interesting overlap of the law, but I think the most amazing thing or the thing that kind of that stays with you, I guess, is that in the end, you know, allow people to limit the pain, right? I think that kind of that message can is so sustaining for us
human beings, right? Because if you live long enough, you're gonna go through trials, you're gonna go through ups and downs, you're gonna meet all sorts of people who are gonna hurt you who are gonna lift you up. And at the end of all of that, if you know that you're doing the right thing and bit you know, having ductwork is gonna give you success. That's the message of the story isn't and that's what Allah was telling the prophets of Allah when he said,
you have to go through the well and the prison to get to the ministership. That's really the story you have to go through the struggles and the trials and next time you're in any painful situation, think of use of in the Well think of use of in the prison, think of use of with the false accusations and one of the reasons the story very much appealed to me the Medina phase was you're aware of the not going into details here but the fit and that took place in the Medina era. And it's still taking place online now. Right. And that the state at that time I was one of the main objects of attack, you know, the slides
And the mystery of mutations and whatnot. And that's why I wanted to teach through the use of in in the mosquito hate that this whole notion of slander. And I also taught the slander of Irish because of that, because I felt the pressure of, you know, the, you know, you know what's going on online even now with other people, not necessarily with me, but that those two stories at that stage of my life resonated because of the slander, right? But again, that's the beauty of the Sierra and the Quran, that there's different
modes of resignation, there's different levels of interaction, and whatever you're going through in life, the Sierra and the Quran, are going to appeal to and are going to give you the comfort that is needed.
So Pamela, yeah, and I think that's why it's so important that everyone every Muslim, regardless of whether you're a scholar or a student of knowledge, or you consider yourself to be a beginner needs to study to see. Right, right. Especially, and,
and I hope that inshallah your book will, will be something that people, you know, reflect on and benefit from. And so, Dr. Herron for that, and speaking of, I guess, difficult times, I wanted to, you know, pick your brains about the whole lockdown situation and what you personally and how you think, you know, the oma should be reflecting on what's just happened, you know, we've been through a period where none of us could have predicted
for many of us, it was the first time we were like, having to be with our families for so long as well, you know, without any kind of a break, I would say.
What Are any of the, I don't know, lessons epiphanies that you've had during this lockdown, period?
That's a very profound question. I mean, for me, when the lockdown began, and for quite a period of time, and still, the main lesson for me was the rubia of Allah subhana wa tada who could have ever imagined being an associate and will go haha, between the morning and an afternoon basically, the entire world shut down basically, because of a virus that if you actually calculate it, it's physical mass around the globe is not even half a cup or something, you know, the actual virus, when you actually put all of it together, it is insignificant. And yet, we saw when a lot of xojo will something how quickly it comes into effect. So to me that was definitely and of course you know,
this But again, it's like every Monday, he said, um, says, you know, the ultimate in Nickleby you know, of course, we believe that Allah is the rub, of course we do. But to see that power to see how weak we are, that we are the avid and Allah is the hub. And when Allah says couldn't fire corn, everything happens to me that was and it still remains to be just absolutely just, it affects one's eemaan to the level that you really are humbled in front of Allah subhana wa, Tada. It increased my Eman exponentially. And of course, again, it brought here as another story comes in sizes, if you doubt, but there is the sense of humanity's collective arrogance that we saw, you know,
especially Western arrogance, especially American arrogance, just the arrogance of we can do whatever we want. No you can sibility right. There's nothing of invincibility at this level this level of We Are the rulers of the world, you know automatica domina who were our amuro and Allah halaby who Holla
Holla combo he had Dominion power, right? That it's like the people of the past who boasted who is stronger than us and Allah says don't they see Allah who created them is stronger than them so to me that was definitely and remains the number one lesson obviously on a personal level so for the last how long no decade really I have been traveling every second weekend every weekend like my I'm a frequent flyer over a million miles you know every single program with like Platinum elite whatnot so traveling traveling traveling and I kept on saying I need to cut back I need to cut back but then it kept on saying no but I need to do that what I need to do this and that and I have not sat in a
plane for seven months now for and this is the longest period of my since my Medina years that I have not traveled right and I realized hey, I'm actually in many ways more productive. So that's been a very big and inshallah I hope inshallah once this COVID thing finishes that I'm not going to resume the traveling to the level that I used to because I do need to cut back it's just been very it's a nuisance to travel a subtle cutoff point I'd have you know your waist. There's a lot of time wasted a lot of issues happened whatnot and I would like to cut back on myself.
Travel. So this has been a very eye opening thing that you can accomplish a lot reading and writing and researching. Another blessing that we should thank Allah for be special because of the COVID is technology. And I said this in one of my first photos after COVID imagine and I think you're as well are old enough to remember a pre internet world in a pre Google world in a pre cellphone world. Imagine if this type of calamity had happened in the 80s. And I remember the 80s very well, I mean, you know, imagine if we didn't have that technology, where we can have this live Skype conversation or, you know, on internet or online, how difficult the world would be, you know, my children are
waking up, out, and they're going to go to school in their bedrooms, right? In school all day from here, all of them. My eldest in university is logging on, you know, yeah, on the line, you know, imagine in the 80s, or even 90s, what would have happened? So that's another thing would benefit. In terms of assembly, you're absolutely right, so panela. And for all of us, let's be honest, let's not sugarcoat it's been a roller coaster, right? To be with the spouse and the children so intimately, literally under lockdown. For the first few weeks, we were not even exiting, except once or twice a week to go get groceries. Right? That has not happened ever, you know, so you have to rediscover how
to live with your loved ones. Because suddenly, walking out every day for hours actually provides you a respite from from that company, and have that in my case, it's been a beautiful experience, I'm not going to say it's been fully rosy because that's, that's lying. Everybody knows him. And that's what marriage and children are. It's negotiating, you know, priorities and, and managing to live and whatnot. And it's been an interesting, last seven, eight months. In my case, I think a lot hamdulillah. You know, I'm very, very blessed to have a loving family, we are Alhamdulillah living together, my parents are with me as well, which is a huge blessing that they moved in pre COVID. Or
else I don't know what I would have done, you know, so we are all together at home tonight. It's been a very, very beautiful and blessed at time. And yes, there have been things you need to work around. And you learn to do that, and hamdulillah. So, in my case, it's been a huge blessing that I wasn't able to spend that much time with my family because of the traveling now, because of COVID. Last seven, eight months, literally locked down. So we've instituted you know, our little family practices together that we were not able to do before conversations, whatnot. So overall, it's been very, very positive. Now I know, for some families that has not been and I've been hearing horror
stories and getting emails, and then that's very difficult to hear for me.
And all I can say is those couples that are that are going through problematic times and whatnot, they need to turn to a lot and try their best. I mean, it's this the during times of fits enough, the real you is discovered, right? Yeah, for some families, Mashallah, they discovered bliss and love and peace more than they thought existed. But unfortunately for other families, that is not the case. And they have to deal with it, as they have to do with it. May Allah make it easy for all of us. So these are some of the lessons I hope that's, that's kind of what your, you know, the question was catering to that type of responses. Yeah, definitely. And what about as an Imam like, I think,
was it my imagination that you saw online that you taking some Shahada is during this time? On the lockdown? Unbelievable, we have increased the number of Shahada. And really, yes, and I think the reason for this actually is self evident, but it's just when you see it is very, very pleasing. The same reason why Shahada has increased in prison. Right? The the number of Congress in prison is very high in America, I don't know how it's in England, but in generally speaking, you know, the conversion rate is astronomical, inside of prison compared to outside Why? Because when you're under lockdown, when all of the bars and nightclubs and all of the socialization is shut down, your mind
has to take you know, kicking, you have you're now forced to think, right so what it does is it liberates your mind if your mind was under drugs was in crimes was following shout out and whatnot. And I'm not advocating the American prison system. It has huge problems, but I'm saying every problem while every negative has some positives, and over the years is when a person is completely desensitized to higher purposes of life, right? living like as Allah says, In the Quran, in humid like Al anon, when they're living like cattle, you take from that environment, and you throw them in a room with nothing. So then they're not going to live like cattle anymore, they will discover their
humanity. And as they discovered, their brains are gonna kick in and they're going to start thinking, why am I here? What am I doing, and they're going to turn to spirituality. So in the COVID crisis would happen is a similar thing is that people are stuck at home.
How long you're going to watch Netflix? How long are you going to just just do nothing in your house, you start thinking, and you start thinking about COVID, you start thinking about the power of God, you start thinking about, you know, how we can feel human beings are, and that's your fifth or kicking in. And so people start reading and researching, and so on hamdulillah every week, we've had a few shadows here, and I've heard this I've heard the same and other massages in Dallas and in North America as well. So it's been an interesting and they call up this year, the number of times in one case that went viral, that I literally just walked to the masjid and there was a lady with
her children there, you know, and she wanted to Yeah, I think you saw that video as well. Yeah. And it just so happened, she drove to the masjid not even knowing if anybody's going to be there. You know, that's how much you want to embrace Islam. And other Allah, I had one of my recordings, you know, so the staff, one or two of the staff was there, and I walked in, and she was outside. So okay, we just did the Shahada right then and there. hamdulillah? You know, it's interesting. Interesting. Well, it again, these are some of the positives that we see in this negative timeframe and in numerous uses what Allah says in the Quran, you're always going to find positives and every
negative situation.
And I think it's so true, what you mentioned about homophobia, because it was as if humanity was forced to acknowledge and notice a large group of via right, and that arrogance, how can you possibly be arrogant in the COVID crisis? How how I mean, we still don't have the vaccine. And once the vaccine his quote, unquote, discovered is going to take a year, and we still don't know the after effects of that vaccine, because it's going to take another few years, right? And the after effects of COVID, how can anybody possibly be arrogant, you know, at this stage, and that's why Subhanallah those that are still young and arrogant and gefallen will hit and an atheist at this
stage? I honestly think and what hope is there unless the law guides them like, how can you possibly not see the power of Allah subhana wa Tada. And just think that this is all a coincidence and coming out of nowhere? And if anybody believes that, how can they not deserve the eternal punishment? I mean, I know that's not the talk here today. But one of the main issues that comes is eternal punishment, how is it fair, what not? And their responses, it depends on the crime and look at the crime, the sheer arrogance of assuming that you understand and know everything in light of, of the COVID crisis, if you can reject a higher power in this time, why do you not deserve the punishment
from that higher power? So anyway, I know that was a totally separate point. But I'm writing a great point. And actually, you highlighted another very important thing, and that is, I think, for the believer, no matter what happens, whatever situation befalls you, your work still carries on right in your mode of work, your mode of output might change. But the work carries on and I think you all want to remember our ways to worship Allah subhana wa.
Simple as that these are the two main principles, right? You're a bother and then you're giving back to people. And during the COVID crisis. This was changed even though a bother was changed because again, it happened before mobile and remember right? And to me, that was a very interesting Roman vibe like it really before Ramadan I couldn't imagine from Oban. I mentioned this in my lectures. I could not imagine Ramadan, without Torah, and without the community, because every year of my life for me, and when I said this, I know some sisters. They said Welcome to the club. Like, you know, we're so that kind of I understand now because I never imagined a normal bond without community,
right? For me, normal bond is associated with every single day of my life, every Ramadan. I mean, the only time you pray that we had home is when you're sick. You know, for me, it's like the concept of Ramadan, not praying behind the Imam, listening to the Koran, not seeing the throngs of people, the pack communities. And I was a bit terrified, like, how am I going to do this Ramadan? And I'm going to be honest, I'm not going to say that, you know, it was better in every aspect, because it wasn't, but it was better in some aspects. Yes, it was definitely better in some aspects and I appreciated certain things that I had never appreciated before. You know, and you know, I look
forward to when we can go back to our normal Ramadan No problem, but I'm not gonna say that I regret it at all this previous Ramadan and our and what we didn't have, because I was gifted things that I never had before this trauma bond, if that makes sense. Yeah, I think in other words, all of us were functioning in autopilot, right. And suddenly the situation made us have to shift have to relook at everything. And I like that's a very good analogy. In many ways. Ramadan was semi autopilot. Like when you get into the mood, every mode, everybody's doing something. You're just pushed along, right? Yes.
Second machine exactly this animal on, we had to switch off autopilot, and hold on to the steering wheel and navigate our spirituality through this month. That's a profound example. And it fits perfectly with what the message I'm trying to convey, which is that you needed to do something else. And in that was his own joy along with his own struggles. It's a two way street. Right? Absolutely. And I think one of the things that it also highlighted was actually made me grateful, and made me realize some of the investments that I'd made prior to this situation, and I'll give you an example. So the fact that my son, you know, didn't even memorize Quran, and he had some practice in leading
prayers, all of that, you know, it meant that we were like, it's your turn now use of, you know, you've got to, you've got to be the mom, you've got to take us through this Ramadan, you know, and, obviously, the investment for that had been made for many, many, many years.
But it feels like spamela sometimes, you know, these situations that come with their difficulties, they help you to realize and be thankful for the investments you've made, you know, sometimes you don't necessarily see the benefits of immediately. Yeah, Alhamdulillah that's a beautiful point as well, that the the Femara of all of those years of and I I know as a parent, even though my wife takes more charge in this, but the the, the the hassle of having the children memorize the Quran, the daily struggle and the routine of what not to handle. So to hear or to have to experience the sweetness of the fruits of that, this Ramadan allowed that to come out and hamdulillah from the,
from the nurse, I just didn't have time for your thoughts on all of that. And so chef, I wanted to talk about, you know, when we look around the world today, and I know myself as an Islamic law student, I'm doing postgraduate study in Islamic law, one of the things that really strikes you is that, okay, we have all of these nation states, we have, you know, in varying degrees that Islamic and, you know, some of them have hybrid legal systems, or most of them have hybrid legal systems where, you know, French civil codes and English legal systems have been blended. And then Sharia is a source of law. And, you know, the whole Muslim Omar has changed to such a degree. Okay, and having
lived in a Muslim country as well. And you know, when you first go to a Muslim country, you kind of have this, I think, utopian image of what it's going to be like, right to live there. Until you live there. And then you can see I'm rushing back home thanking Allah for many of the issues that you took for granted, in the lives that we live in. Yeah, that's been there, done that. Yeah. I mean, you notice the good as well, you know, there is a lot of good a lot of hair in the
back, but at the same time, you can see the years of neglect decades of neglect the effects of colonialism, you know, I mean, it doesn't end really like if you were to analyze it. So, as a Muslim today, with living in the West, you know,
what do you think our mindset should be when we look at it online? You know, people can sometimes feel overwhelmed, you can feel helpless, you can feel like, I have no role to play, who am I? You know? Yeah. So, so people can direct their, you know, energy and blame towards leaders, scholars towards the colonialist towards what the West,
what should we be doing as Muslims? Do we have any role? Is there a blueprint? You know, because Sorry, just to elaborate on the question a little bit,
looking at studying fit in, I studied Hanafi and unbelief. And just just reading some of the books of the scholars, you, you get the impression that
they kind of expected Muslims to be in a situation where they had the khilafah, there was, there was rulership, there was, everything would be established, and it would continue to be that way. And very little, it seems, has been written
about a time such as ours, where millions of people are literally living as minorities, right? Over.
Right, and, and just the whole political landscape has completely changed. So did the scholars of the past give us any guidance regarding this? Or is this very much a modern day thing that we're all gonna have to grapple with? Please give us your thoughts and your advice. Obviously, this is a question that doesn't even have one answer to it. Right and if you ask 50 people who have trained
In Islam, odema academic scholars, you will get 50 responses, there is no one answer to the problems that you've raised. And I am somebody who takes a very different approach. I actually believe that multiple answers are healthy. And what I mean by this is, it is healthy for the Ummah, to have a diversity of responses to this current problem. It is healthy for some movements to be far more political, and to actually aim for a political establishment. Even though me personally, as everybody is aware, I'm not that involved with those movements. But I see some good in that. And I see that they are bringing up a notion that is very healthy to have. It's also healthy for others to
talk about, you know, issues of athletes all the time, and I came from such a movement 20 years ago, okay, it's also healthy for you other movements to worry about, maybe issues that some might be considering to be trivial or whatnot, but they remind us, hey, look, there is an aspect of the Sooners, you'll be thinking about whatever it might be, there's head and shot law in the broad mainstream
movements that are following the Quran and Sunnah. Even as some of them might prioritize certain things that others are not prioritizing. I think we need to look at the broader picture that not everybody has the same mindset. You see, I'm actually looking at from a psychological standpoint. So if you look at the diversity of spectrums and movements, and even I don't want to get into too much trouble, even a little bit of theological spectrums, within Satanism, even outside of Satanism, you find certain mindsets are attracted to certain movements, there's a predisposition, right. So it's analogies, I think, exactly, you can
almost some people are more spiritual by nature, some people are more academic, some people are more into certain issues than others, some people are more political, this is even amongst the Sahaba some people are more into, you know, military expeditions and stuff. So overriden harder than worried are not the same, you know, and let there be a diversity within the overall umbrella of wanting to please Allah via following the suit of the Messenger of Allah, you know, so the broad Sunni theology and even non Sudanese might be wrong in many things, that doesn't mean they're outside the fold of Islam, and they might have some hidden some of what they do, even as they have
mistakes. So there are gradations of, of obviously orthodoxy, and I am somebody who has now come to a position in my life that I don't believe that, you know, Orthodoxy is defined by a narrow group of rules of one land. I don't believe that anymore. And I believe that there is head across the oma and across the spectrum of movements and across the spectrum of mainstream Sunni Islam and even outside of Sunni Islam. Not everybody is evil. Shavasana with Ebola, you will find head and good in people who anybody who lowers his head to Allah subhana wa tada who maintains his will do law you have to Allah will do in a moment, right as even Timmy himself towards the end of his life, he did not make
too clear of anybody who prayed. And of course, yes, there's one or two groups that might pray and they have absolute Cofer beliefs. Let's ignore that, generally speaking, the old man whom the dealer is believing in Allah and His messenger and the finality of the messenger suit. So if a person finds comfort in one particular strand or movement, and they're living their lives overall with taqwa and eemaan inshallah there is head in them, and they will cause some good in the oma to expect there to be one specific, narrow solution to the entire global problem. I think that is a level of arrogance that we need to rid ourselves of, it is healthy for some people to always talk about our Qaeda,
because even if they're obsessed, at some level, it causes others to think, right now when I say I don't mean the right, I'm saying there is some kid and what they're doing. It is healthy for others to always be talking about a hella hella hella fun. Let them do that, because it reminds us Hey, you know what? Yeah, there was an ideal there is something that you know, people should be thinking about, and how do we think about in the modern world, so we don't want it to be absent from our discourse. Now, what you choose to do, what I choose to do, it depends on many factors of them is our context right? In some lands, you cannot get involved in certain movements. So maybe you
shouldn't, because it might get you killed, your family killed, you know, it also depends on where you live. And this is very clear to anybody living in a Muslim majority land versus living in a Muslim minority automatically that dictates your your priorities. Also, your own personal interests. So I am somebody who's very interested in academics and knowledge and and whatnot. That doesn't mean that that is the only way forward right. We all have a role to play. I gave a lecture about Donovan Sabbath rhodiola Juan and I said that arts is a part of our religion has suddenly been Sabbath was the artist the stereotypical artist of
That generation by artist I mean, the humanities not to any drawing any poet, right if he was a creative is a creator, a content creator, right. And he was not known not for him, not for bravery not for anything else not for being in the battlefield, as you know, in the in the famous battle of the hunt that he was in another part of the city list. My is in my electric listen to that, but he had a role to play as well. So we should, we should read ourselves of the notion that we all have the same role to play. On the contrary, we we have different roles to play, and every one of us should think about, yes, the global picture, as the saying goes, you know, think globally, act
locally, and see what we can do to better our situation, and especially our families and friends who and full circle alikum narrow, this is the commandment of Allah subhana wa, tada, yes, Philistine is an issue, the weekers are an issue of serious and issue, the globe is an issue, nation state, it is an issue. But in the end of the day, Allah is not going to ask us directly, what did you do to solve the Israeli Palestinian crisis? Because I can't do anything for that. But Alo will ask us, you know, what did you do in your own personal sphere of influence your own children, your own family and friends? So I think to answer this question, rather, rather than asking roadmap, we should first
introspect and ask ourselves, what is my passion? What is my talent, and then ask the roadmap based upon my passions and talent? Look, I have wealth, I have knowledge, I have medicals, because whatever the person is gonna say, this is what I can give to the oma. Right? This is my passion. A doctor. So Pamela, how much Han is being done in America by Muslim doctors right now? Right, our data now in terms of, you know, post 911 has been one of the best because I don't know in England, what is the case in America? Around 10% of the medical
staff and whatnot, are Muslims? Because? I don't know in England? I'm not 100%? Sure, yeah, in America.
Very popular than the Muslim community, right. So even though percentage wise were around one or 2%, in the medical field, were around 10%. So we are over represented. And across the country, there have been tributes to Muslim doctors and Muslim, you know, staff and whatnot. Because Because of our representation, and because of our work ethic. So what a doctor can do during COVID is being a doctor demonstrate the reality of our faith. Therefore, to answer your question, I will simply say I am somebody who tries to look at the broader picture. And I'm trying to say that there is no one answer. We all have different roles to play, we can all contribute something. And to finish this
question, we thank Allah subhana wa Tada, we thank Allah that we are responsible for ourselves and our immediate influence only, we're not responsible for anything beyond this. So, rather than get depressed about what I cannot solve, which is the global problems, let us become optimistic about what I can solve, which is the local issues which is my local Masjid, which is my you know, circle of influence in my friends, neighbors, in my colleagues at work, how can I better the impression of Islam amongst them, these are small things that inshallah tada if we do collectively, they will create a global change number one, but number two, even if you don't live to see the global change,
you have done enough to save yourself on the Day of Judgment. And that's really all that counts. Because we're not going to attain gender in this world. We have to rid ourselves of that notion that that we're going to attain ultimate isn't ultimate power and ultimate. We might not see that until the magic comes in. Even when the malady comes. It's not going to be as if the world is a utopia, and people need to understand even in prophetic Medina just give it my q&a last week, the question was very sensitive about the rape issue in box not. And I answered that there was a rape in Medina, in the prophetic Medina, it deserves an interview though, you're not going to create perfection in
this world, that's not going to happen, no matter what you do, whether it's knowledge, whether it's politics, whether it's Dawa, whether it's w whether it's the it's not going to your goals, or perfection, excellent, keep them but realize you're never going to attain it, that's not going to happen. So the goal is not this dunya The goal is to show Allah subhanho wa Taala that we tried the best in this dunya that's what the goal is. And if we simply try the best to do whatever we can with whatever we have, wherever we are, if we strive for that level of your son, guess what we will attain the ultimate goal from NZ honey Nadi will look at the agenda difficult affairs. That's the
goal. Whoever is protected from the fire of hell and enters the paradise then that person has been successful and we thank Allah, we can attain that success, regardless of where we are, regardless of what position we're in which land we are in. Imagine and I want you to think about this that the viewers here no more
matter what your situation is, you have the opportunity to gain gender to fear those, no matter how much money or little money you have, how good your health is bad your health is how loving your family how 18 your family is, how despise the communities around you, whether you're being taught, or whether you have the freedom. This is the beauty of our faith, we all have equal access to feel those that are Allah and to Jenna to Jeanette, we have equal access, not necessarily the same road, but equal access. You see the point here, the roads might be different, where you are, what you are what you're doing, but the access is given to all of us and handed it out. Somebody handed it up.
And Allah azza wa jal has given us all the capability to get that access if we want to do so. Right. dementia, I mean, come on, you're stuck in if we want to have this diploma on this Deen, then inshallah Allah, Allah will give us the karma. And we're going to be able to earn Jen, I don't know if that answered exactly your question. But that's the thoughts that came to my mind.
So I think what you one of the things you highlighted there is that for each and every, well, first of all, I think it's one of the great things about Muslim community worldwide, is that we have so much talent. It's just amazing, like any to anyone who's had to manage people or try to run a project and had to hire people. And
I mean, I feel so proud of our community really like the the range of talent that we have, in the coming generation, especially, and how I'm hoping we're bringing up a new generation that is a little bit more knowledgeable as well, you know, so like, the baseline standard of knowledge has, hopefully, is going to hopefully be increased in terms of Islamic knowledge. And that will, of course, affect all of our work, right. And it's like, knowledge, both knowledge is I mean, you see the previous generation to this one, generally speaking, and there's a lot of positives. Again, you can concentrate on the negatives, you can talk about the tick tock generation and the attention span
or the Twitter and whatnot. And there's a lot of negativity, there's no question about that. But if you look at the positive, there is no question that there is globally an Islamic revival going on anybody who studies history, compare Islamic movements of the 60s and 70s. Compare Karachi and Cairo, of the 60s and 70s. to modern day garage in Canada. There's a lot of negatives, nobody's taking that away. But I will dare tell you with with I think I think nobody can deny this that. Overall, there is a sense of Islamic identity far more than it was one generation ago, when my father was my age, when my father was in university, let's say, right? You know, when my mother was
there, she was telling me in the 60s, nobody wore her job at the University of graduate. It was like, she goes, maybe two people in the entire campus, you know, the MIT say, watchi, I thought you were saying in America. So Pamela in Karachi University. Right? Because that that liberal sense if you go to university, right, that, you know, Cairo as well, that listen to the talks of the people that it's as if it was non existent in those circles, right. So the not that again, I don't want to be obsessed just with the hijab. It's just an overall notion of, of being aware of one's Islamic identity. Well, it is a symbol, it's a symbol, it's a symbol of religiosity, it is a set, let's not
deny this as well, let's not let's not make it the only symbol but at the same time, overall, if her brother is going to the messages regularly and Mashallah demonstrating the sooner it's a symbol that there's something in their minds about Islam, that's all that it is. It doesn't mean they're pirates. I mean, they're angels, doesn't mean they haven't don't have a lot of other problems. But overall, when a brother is involved with the MSA, or the ISOC, and going to the masjid, when the sister is involved, it shows because they don't have to be involved with the ISOC do they don't have to be involved with them with the massager the fact that they are overall demonstrates and that's
something that inshallah we cannot deny globally, that there is an awareness of the Islamic identity in this generation that is far more pronounced than it was in the last generation. Yes. And I remember when my father came to the UK, he was involved in a one of the first Muslim Institute's and he was like the alum that they brought over, right to help them
navigate islamically their work. And, and now at hamdulillah. I feel like the very members of those Institute's are a lot more knowledgeable than they, you know, the previous generation would have been. And there's also this new form up phenomenon of, I would say hybrid professionals. I think that's what they call them, where you have people who studied Dean to a high level, you know,
like completed that alum
Or at least a degree in Sharia or something. And along with that, they're, you know, they're lawyers, or they're in Islamic Finance, or they're doctors. And so it kind of, you know, informs their work. So I think that that's also a new thing. And not just that, but this is the first generation of
born and raised in the Western world, having studied Islam, and again, it's just the circumstance that Allah chose us to be of that generation. Like, it's not something we decided, with this is the generation, you know, like me, and you and others of this generation, like our parents came, we were born here. It's a loss that we happen to be born. We are the I mean, I remember the first semester of the 70s of America, I still am, I mean, of Houston, my father founded it, it just so happened that okay, Allah blessed us to be of that generation that we are born and raised here. And then we decided to go, I grew up, and our mom always have did not speak English at all. The first the person
who taught me the Koran, you know, the, I don't know, Narnia, what, not right? He's still alive, Mashallah, in his late 70s. Now, we brought him over in the 70s, as the first you know, molvi, south of Houston, Texas, and I grew up not listening to an English notebook. And that's actually one of the reasons deep down inside that I went to Medina To be honest, that I didn't know my faith the way that I wanted to know. And I didn't have anybody that I could, I didn't, by the way, I didn't go to Medina to become a scholar, I didn't, I went to Medina to live my ignorance, I went to India to study my faith, one thing led to another and I am where I am now. But it wasn't my intention to go
down this path. You know, it was just there was nobody here that I really, I and Allah knows best if there were an actual person I could study with all time. And I could relate to maybe I wouldn't have gone to Medina, right, but there wasn't. And so we were the first generation to actually then from our lands, go overseas, and then come back. And that I think, as well, is a new phenomenon that speaking fluent English, understanding the cultures that we live in. And that comes with its baggage, its responsibilities, there's pros and cons, it's time of deep analysis and thinking of what we're doing. I mean, I don't want to sound too pompous or arrogant about our generation. But I
firmly believe that what we do in this generation is going to dictate the next 100 years or so, because we are the ones planting the seeds for the next 100 years. Right now what we're gonna do, because we are the ones that are fully and we're the only generation by the way, that is fully a climatized with east and west, I know you speak fluent odour and your father's language and so do I, you know, I'm pretty sure your children, my children, I know my children, they've kind of 20% You know, I'm saying what's gonna happen to them? Right? We are comfortable in being in both worlds completely. And we understand both worlds and we go back and forth between both worlds, that's going
to change. And so what we do to set up the future world of our side, the foundations, we put the parameters we put the seeds that we plant, they're going to have a massive impact. I long but that's that is my sense of the direction we're heading in Illinois is best and that what it does is it makes me think, W Tripoli before anything that I engage with. It makes me think long and hard about the repercussions about. And this is of course, a famous topic of theology, and it will sort of fill a Sabbath. When will the Yurok what is allowed to change what is allowed to or what is not allowed to change. And we see a lot of this in the online discussions and debates and whatnot. And sometimes
there's no right and wrong answer. It's a gray area. And time is going to tell anyway, I am meandering now. Well, one of the things that you just speaking, brought into my mind was,
you know, what you just said about some hammer the next generation and what the kind of seeds that we plant. And I think one of the positive seeds that have been planted in our generation is
less polarity, even though the online world might, you know, make it look like there's a lot more polarization. In reality, I think, you know, being at university now I'm seeing there's not the polarities, the the groups, you know, the the sectarian divisions in the way that they were back in the 90s. Right. Sure. And I think one of the reasons for that is actually believe it or not, 911 and the politicization of dynamics of who we are, I mean, we were put under pressure. Yeah. You know, I mean, I was very active in my MSA, my ISOC, pre 90s I'm sorry, pre 911 in the 90s. And that era,
it was a very I'm not gonna again, I'm not somebody who criticizes the past. I am who I am because of all of my friends.
I think a lot for the phase I went through it, it shaped my identity. We learn from the lessons, let's just put it that way. Right? We wouldn't do that again. And it did have some positives. Let's also be frank here, right? That, that that identification with the fill color and the strand, and a group of
it kept us sane in a very chaotic world. Now, it created some inter Muslim problems, there's no doubt about that. But in terms of my Islamic identity, I would not ever deny that being a part of that that hardcore movement impacted me to be a proud Muslim. I'm gonna say that, frankly, like, yeah, I feel I'm a part of a heritage way beyond the circumstances of my birth way beyond the random. That's one of the things that worries me about the the new generation now is that, like you said, like, even though there were groups, people, it was almost as if those groups were necessary for our generation to kind of have an identity, you know, because we were not overly critical of the
19. Yeah, fit from that. And we were, I've never negated who I was, or apologize for that I've moved on, I keep on saying I'm moved on, I wouldn't be who I am, I wouldn't be here with this type of vision or mentality if I hadn't been through all of those phases, all, but we need to make sure that our children learn from our mistakes, and their children will learn from their mistakes. So you know,
there's no denying that our children are going to face negatives that we did not face. And it's this new notion of Islamic identity. So there was no notion of liberal Islam in the 90s that just didn't exist, mainstream. It was very, very small. Now we do have these progressives that I'm I've always been evoked critical, even as my critics accuse me of being progressive, but that's this, the continuous spectrum here. Now, we do have some serious interpretation, issues of Islam, right? foundational issues, morality, ethics, sexuality, marriage, the issue of identity, we didn't have to face that in the 90s. Not at all, nobody in the 90s would say Xena is headed, you get where I'm
heading with this, you know, nobody in the 90s said that, that is completely Islamic to do that. Now, our children are exposed to this and they come to me sometimes even my own can say, why is it How long is such and such? Why is it a problem. And they're so and so says okay, and they quote a Muslim. So we will have another problem of our generation. But my philosophy is, every generation is going to have its unique problems, every generation, it's not as if the 90s were unique in all of human history, that they might have had unique problems, yes. But every generation is going to have to rise up to its challenges. And we are going to try our best to minimize the dangers, but it is up
to them as they grow up and take on these challenges. A lot, a lot, a lot of agenda is always going to protect the dean, we just have to protect our children and our immediate circle of influence. And I think equip them, right, equip them with the tools that they need, because one of the things I've noticed at university is
sometimes the lack of confidence, you know, that like, although a lot of our generation might may have been quite hot headed. And outspoken, you know, at university and quite connected with, I would say, various Islamic ideologies. This new generation, one thing that worries me, is because of the lack of actually because of the unity, which is a good thing, okay.
Sometimes there's a lack of clarity about, you know, where the lines are, and how to report certain, it's painful because there's no denying that we were Uber strict. There's no denying that in the 90s. But then when you look at the current climate, so hello, there's as if there's no boundaries of theology, of even Eman and Cofer of gender issues, like the interactions that I see at the MSA is between brothers and sisters is frankly just an Islamic and it is the norm and the default. I don't know how it is in England, but in America, if they could see the 90s
no doubt, we went fanatical no question, you know, complete barriers and shaves and whatnot. But then this is like a flip opposite, right? And along with Stan handy, this is this is a problem of our times that they do not care that in some ways,
because there are certain topics that scholars are not talking about so much anymore, right.
That then the next generation is losing out, you know, on that guidance.
I think we need to
be cognizant of the complete picture you know, and and I know that
Sometimes we look back at the 90s. And like, myself, I grew up, you know, my dad is from there, but he is mostly from the band. And I didn't grow up with any groups. And I didn't even know that there weren't any Islamic groups, right? until I went to Egypt. And
I was, like, hit on the head with the different groups, I would say, right.
But
I think that was a nice, kind of blissful existence to have for me, you know, but once I became aware of the different groups, one of the things I noticed was the strengths in the different groups. And definitely, with, you know, some of the groups who, especially the ones that emphasize either, etc, I think from them came that huge dour spirit, you know, like, yeah, and, and all sorts of emphasis on the here and calling people to go here. And that doesn't necessarily because I've been with the people of different groups, in our study that scholars have different backgrounds, which, within mainstream
is good, I can see, you know, the strengths of each of those communities,
including ones that might have seemed a bit harsh, you know, in the past, etc. from them has come a lot of good as well. And, yeah, I just worry sometimes that in trying to kind of distance ourselves from some of the negatives, you know, of that period, that our generation sometimes might neglect some of the good things that were their neglect passing the mommy. I mean, listen, let me, let me say something that is very awkward to say here, but it needs to be said, when I was my first foot was at the MSA back in the 90s. Right. No matter how harsh we were, how naive we were, no matter who we invited of the hardcore scholars of that time. The max that could have happened as a reaction was
that some people would have left our version of Islam. There was never a danger, by and large, have an agenda. The problem that we have of this generation is that it
and again, I'm speaking as somebody who's very aware that we have a major crises of people leaving our faith of the next generation. And the reasons they're leaving are many.
One of them being that religious folks don't make sense to them. They're not appealing to their their sentiments or whatnot. So one of the reasons why myself and others have really toned down when it comes to online stuff. Now, if you meet me in person, and you asked me my first was one on one, I'll assess you, and I'll see. But generally speaking, we want to preserve their emotion. And you're not going to do that by overtly harsh photos and ideas. Right. So what I'm trying to say, and I could be wrong in this, but I challenge anybody who has been active since the 90s. To now to disagree with what about what I'm about to say, and that is that there was no major fear of the 19th
generation me and you leaving Islam by and large, right, amongst my own extended friends and families of the 90s of the MSA and whatnot. Right. I really can't think of anybody that left Islam. But I know plenty of the next generation, plenty of some of our own students that we taught in our own Institute's. I know plenty of the people, you know, my friends whose children now are doubting or leaving the faith. So given that dynamics, yes, what is the main cause of that? Like? Because I've experienced that as well, I get phone calls from sisters, you know, how do we know that the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam didn't just copy the Jews and Christians? That was many reasons,
I think. Yeah, I think one of them is simply the reality of following your society. Like, back in the 90s.
All of these phones and whatnot, were just coming. And even atheism was not something of course, people were atheists or whatnot. But the mainstreaming of it, and the in your face and the open mockery of religion that is now happening across the globe, the assault by New Age, you know, atheists, you know, that is that is the 2000s phenomena post 911 phenomenon, the out right, attacks that this group is doing against all religions in general and especially Islam. It's new, and I feel that our young children are being exposed to shubo hearts and also to mainstream atheism. Now, that they get caught up in it and
Unless, as it's I didn't hear you say that again. I was gonna say it's so important, isn't it as parents to create that space, the safe safety of the home for our children to be able to ask us anything, which is why again, I go back to the notion that you raised of being too soft and whatnot. It's because of that this that I really feel like I shut the alarm said we implanted a man in their hearts before saying things were out on, right. That's why you're not going to hear me give a blasting holds. But that is going to appease the 90s mentality of the hardcore, that's not gonna happen, because I don't view that as being wise. I don't view this in this day and age to just go
full blast and, and
teach people aspects that they don't need to hear right now. Right? human needs to be implanted in their hearts with the other issues of ethics and advanced law and whatnot, even advanced athletes. I mean, again, my position has been always for the last 2015 years or so 15 years, definitely, like, we need to stop this this this warfare between the various classical groups, just get rid of it. The sifat issues, the molded issues, whatnot, just stop it. Leave it to students within seminaries, no doubt that needs to be but amongst the hot tub and gurus amongst the amongst public social media, forget a Shadi and set a fee and the maturity and athletic forget all of this, just throw it out the
window. They're all good people in Charlotte that love the Quran. And so now, we cannot create hatred amongst those abstract issues, you know, amongst people that are the 2% or the 5%. That's so religious. We're going to fight amongst ourselves, the 90% that's barely coming to the masjid that has serious doubts about following the media. we're ignoring them and concentrating on our internal issues. So definitely I softened up but I don't think it is being softened up. I think it is being wising up. What adjective do you use? Right? My my critics say watered down. I say no, this is wizened up. You know, it's a matter of your paradigm. This to me is hikma that you teach people at
the level of their EMA. And as I scroll down, it says that the first thing we talk about is heaven. And hell, Jen and na. And by the way, look at my series that I've been doing for the last 15 years, right? The Sierra the lies of the Sahaba. Right? Heaven and Hell, the bottles of this is what needs to be taught not a shadow versus a 30 versus Sufi versus selfie. That was the problem of the 90s that we concert on the 1% that's coming, that stuff should not be discussed in public leave it to advanced students about data and we discuss those issues. It is of no value anymore, or I should say very little value, the problems that it causes in public are far greater than any solutions that it
solves. And all the knows best. Yeah. And I think there's a time and a place isn't there for
all of this.
Yeah. And like you said, I think in terms of personality, even scholars have different personalities, right. And sometimes I don't know, like, I remember, as a young person, sometimes I needed to hear that harsh reminder, you know, and sometimes I needed to hear something softer. Yeah, it was mean. So the problem of social media is you cannot restrict your audience, you see, what it really depends. So you speak to the person at their level, right? When somebody comes to me, after a 510 minute conversation, I have a pretty good idea of where they stand in terms of their email, their religious level, whatnot. And based upon that I can choose to be strict or quiet. But when I
give a public lecture and puts on YouTube, I'm speaking to anonymous, hundreds of 1000s of people. And I cannot I cannot appease all of them simultaneously. I can't, it's not going to happen. And I cannot preach to them at the level. And that's if you look at a lot of the I don't want to go down this route. If you look at all of the internal bickering and the refutations and whatnot, and I'm speaking about specifically about my stuff that happens. A lot of it is dealing with people don't understand that you need to speak at different places to different audiences in different languages. This is simple as that. YouTube does not differentiate, right? And it puts everything there. And so
the far right picks on clips that I have been speaking to Muslim audiences very advanced and they'll take something about should contorted Oh, this guy is saying this and that okay? The hardcore Mashallah they're going to take a lecture I've given in front of a non Muslim audience, where I speak very generically and softness, it always goes to software that this and that each one is ignoring the context that that he needs to cater doesn't change the message, but the wordings the adjectives, the emphases. Right, what is said, This is what hikma is. And of course, our critics don't understand that. You cannot say the same phrase for a private Hannukah advanced class.
For the hook, but even you cannot you have to be the hook. But you go down a little bit, that in front of a non Muslim audience even more. So anyway, that was a totally different? Well, I think regarding regarding that, I would say, two thoughts that come to mind. One is that
anytime you're going to be in the public space, you know,
I think it's something that you said once in a lecture that I attended a modeling lecture, I think he said, stop holding your scholars on up on pedestals,
humanize them, and I remember that they think it's Apollo, it's so true, like I've studied with so many different scholars, and at the beginning, you have a very idealistic image
of this year, and by, you know, after a year or two, and there are certain areas where you feel the shock is, you know, a little bit shaky maybe, and other areas that are his strengths, certain things that basically idiosyncrasies that you should have, as you go, you know, as you interact with people on a one on one one on one level, you understand that everybody has their strengths and weaknesses, right? And, but I would say, nobody is perfect, nobody is perfect, nobody's going to wait for the perfect person, the perfect teacher, if you're going to wait for that, you're going to remain ignorant your whole life, if you're waiting for the teacher that has zero mistakes, you're never
going to learn. And actually being a student of knowledge, you need to be patient. Without patience, you just won't be your last till the end of the year, right. And let alone five years of study or whatever. And so that's one part that comes to mind. The other is, I would say, as, as a budding scholar myself, I think there is a place for criticism and when people criticize us, I think it is a, I would say opportunity for us to reassess, you know, and I think there's nothing wrong with that reassessing, actually, could I have said that a better way, actually, was that really the wisest way for me to question their criticism, as long as we're all aware, without getting too specific
methodology of criticism, and the politicization of criticism, we've seen this with the mother, Sandy strand, for example, right? Suppose I discovered you made a mistake in a lecture that you gave, right? And it's nobody's aware of that mistake. Nobody you gave it I happen to listen to the lecture, I saw a video clip or whatnot. Is it Islamic to firstly make it go viral? Make it go viral? Actually, without even approaching, they're saying, hey, do you even realize you made a mistake here? Do you even realize you said something. Because, again, I mean, I speak I can't help us speak about what I'm doing. Like, I give lectures almost every day of my life. And a lot of times when I
go places people are recording without even my knowledge. Not that, but I don't even know. And something happened a few months ago, or somebody took a clip of mine about something in a non Muslim audience. And Firstly, there's nothing wrong with what I said. But secondly, I understand I could have said it better. But you're put on the spot, and you don't, it's not something I intentionally crafted out there. And then thirdly, to read in the worst like to literally take it, it's worst, all of this is clearly without a doubt an Islamic, all that would have happened, there should have happened is somebody said, Hey, did you really mean to say x, y, and z? And I could have said, No,
you know, what, I could have used better wordings, end of story. But to take that clip, and then to make an entire, you know, expose a read in hidden sentiments, or what's happening now with accusing somebody of paganism, I mean, so Pamela, anyway, those people that are involved in this entire vulture culture of of hunting for false and whatnot, history has shown us over and over again, they will burn themselves out. They're not going to accomplish anything. And frankly, and I'm sorry to say this, but history shows us this. Most of them will not even be practicing Islam a decade from now that's we see this, we've seen this with the holidays, we've seen this with May Allah Subhana.
Allah guide them. I think one of the
I mean, one of the things that my chef always said, try to keep everyone within the fold. Try to keep people fortunately, there's a there's this tendency to like you said, highlight people's mistakes and try to almost like take pleasure in extracting them right and anybody
in considering others to be evil, is more evil than the people he's accusing of being evil. Because even if they're evil, for you to or mistakes, for you to Ravel in their mistakes, is a worst sin, generally speaking than the mistake itself for you to go on a
hunting mission to expose these mistakes and make it your life's goal. Along with standards head Ethan Udo is an authentic Heidi that our profitsystem said do not go and follow the hidden mistakes of the believer because whoever does so
We'll expose his hidden mistakes, even if he's in his own house, don't go ahead and, and do this type of stuff. It's very dangerous game that our brothers are playing. And I have, I haven't made that any longer.
I mean, I have 2530 years of experience 3025 years of experience in this. And I have been through very, very difficult times in my own life with one of the groups in Medina. And I have learned many lessons from my own troubles. And one of the main things that I've learned as we let me end where we began what our children were talking, that our goal should be taqwa our goal should be our own personal their son, our goal should be to never stoop to their level. And history has shown me personally, that there can be times when you feel down you feel punched, and neglected and withdrawn from everybody seems against you. But Subhana Allah, a time will come when the very people who had
the upper hand are not even available or seen anywhere, they're gone from the picture, those that you thought controlled, those that you thought had, they're completely absent. And the one that they criticize them the one that they disparage, and the one that they thought is the worst and whatnot, Allah has written for him something that was not written or expected or anything so Allah is the one who decides a lot more is and then within a lot is the one that is a half or than a boss. It's not these people there is doesn't come from me or you. It doesn't come from the critics or from those that are criticize it comes from the one above. And so our job is to humble ourselves in front of a
disease and when we do so that a lot can choose to grant is to whomever he chooses to do so. And our goal in this dunya is Robin Jr. has been an athlete there hasn't been either but now we make Dr. Panda which either that he gives us the best of this world in the next world and that he gives us Robin a habit and as was you know with the reaction of kurata Aryan or john Allen which Athena EMA. Yes, we want to be someone whom the people of taqwa consider to be a role model. How can we not want that we want to be of those which I'm gonna move into a moment everyone should aspire, as Liam says to Mr. Murphy Dean, and what that means is not necessarily being a scholar. It means the people of
taqwa view you as a role model, and that could come with knowledge but there are people of color that don't have knowledge and the community respects and loves them for their support and EMA. So yes, we aim for that. But it is not something we aim for, for the sake of the prestige It is, it is something we aim for that Allah subhana wa tada writes for us that award so that we are as the head it goes, that the Beloved of a lot are the ones that beloved in the heavens and beloved on Earth. Our goal is the love of Allah subhana wa tada and we ask Allah Georgia to cause us to attain that goal.
Well
I think you've given us a lot to think about and I hope that inshallah we can do this again sometime you know, because there there are always new topics that we can discuss and obviously in one sitting, it's not always possible to cover
topics and especially our daughter female doctor always say that we need to address very awkward questions of feminism and gender very awkward questions then there elephants in the room they really are like, what do you do with ideas tendencies versus a Hadeeth? What do you do with the changing world
of genders not just gender roles but genders these days right and variable conversations and that but they need to be done in our young men and women of the next generation need to hear I could be wrong, you could be wrong, but we need to be frank and discuss these issues. So so it is our
brothers and sisters for
for listening in and disciple her and
her for listening to our questions and giving us your thoughts. We really appreciate your time and we appreciate for having me.
The gems that you've shared with us.
So brothers and sisters, please do share this episode with others. Please tell them about this series because I'm hoping that inshallah we're going to be able to have some fruitful discussions with scholars and academics, leaders in our community through this forum. Just like Milan Hara was Salam aleikum wa rahmatullah wa barakato. subhanak. Allah hormone handig Chateau La ilaha illa Anta hirokawa to be like
kijken