Yasir Qadhi – Gaza Is Alive Conference Q&A Panel Discussion – Miko Peled Zachary Foster
AI: Summary ©
The speakers discuss the need for a unified Christian strategy to prevent violent protests and address the Qaedaxeria of Israel. They emphasize the importance of education and activism in addressing the "unsure" (anxeria of the Israeli population) and the need for a winning strategy to unify the group. The segment provides historical context for various novels, including a 4,000-year History by Nur Masmes, a 4,000-year History by Nur Mas cape, and historical context for the Israeli people. The segment ends with a statement about the collectively making a difference and how it impacts broader society.
AI: Summary ©
I want to begin with a personal question
for the both of you.
For the both of you.
We, of course, have been born and raised
in a different paradigm.
And for us, the reality of Gaza, the
Palestinian people, has been a part of our
identity since our youth.
I mean, there's never been a cognitive dissonance,
there's never been an alternative view.
But for the both of you, you had
to overcome a different paradigm.
You had to understand that what you were
taught was incorrect.
And then, there was also, there must have
been a personal cost as well, in which
perhaps your family, your friends, are surprised that
you're transitioned to a different understanding.
So, and it requires an act of courage
and bravery.
So, whatever you're willing to share, the question
is to both of you.
Firstly, how did that come about?
As much personal as you want to get.
And secondly, whatever you want to share with
us, how did your family and friends receive
this?
Because it must have been very awkward and
painful.
And here you are at the forefront of
the Palestinian cause.
I cannot even begin to imagine your personal
trajectories and journey.
So, whatever you're willing to share, you know,
whoever wants to go first.
Oh, turn it on.
Thank you for that question.
In my case, I was raised with this
belief that Israel is my homeland.
And at some point, what occurred to me
was that you have many millions of Palestinians
around the world whose parents and grandparents are
from Palestine, were born and raised in Palestine,
speak Arabic, have a strong connection to their
homeland, and yet they cannot go to Palestine.
They are prevented from entering Palestine because they're
of the incorrect religion, they're of the incorrect
ethnicity.
Whereas me, an American Jew, who may or
may not speak a word of Hebrew or
Arabic, who may or may not know anyone
in the country, have no family connections, I
have a right to go there.
I have a birthright because it's my homeland.
That made no sense to me.
Absolutely no sense.
And what occurred to me in the course
of many, many dialogues with many, many Palestinians
over the course of many years was that
this was a tremendous injustice.
And that was the first, let's say, domino
to fall.
The second for me was, as a historian,
as someone who spent many, many years studying
the history, the more you study the history
of Zionism, the more you realize how deeply,
deeply unethical and racist the movement was.
I mean, the whole concept of the movement
was, how do we create a Jewish state
in a land that is 90-95%
non-Jewish?
And so we're going to move to Palestine
and evict the native inhabitants because they're non
-Jewish.
And then we're going to hire only Jews
because the whole concept is we're building a
Jewish state where we're going to employ Jews
only.
It was a concept called Jewish labor.
And the more you study, I mean, we
could talk about this for hours, I'll wrap
up there, but the more you study about
the history of Zionism, the more you realize
from beginning to end, the project was deeply,
deeply unethical.
They talked for decades and decades in the
1920s and 30s and 40s about the concept
of transfer.
Oh, but guess what transfer translates to in
2024?
It's called ethnic cleansing.
But they talked about it openly.
We have to transfer the Arabs.
Oh, it's going to benefit them.
I mean, so the more you study the
history, the more pro-Palestine you become.
And then just as to the second question,
look, I paid a huge personal price.
You know, my whole family is crazy Zionist.
They are, they support Israel in every imaginable
way.
And I have paid a tremendous price.
But here's what I will say.
I feel like I've also benefited in so
many, so many ways.
I mean, just just seeing all these amazing
people here building so many connections with Muslims
and Palestinians and Arabs and people of conscience.
You pay a price on the one hand,
but then you experience the hospitality and the
solidarity of the Palestine community.
So it's you pay a price, but you
you also experience this incredible joy and and
connection and solidarity with all people of conscience.
Yeah, well, that was great.
That was really great.
Yeah.
So my my story is a little bit
different because I grew up inside it.
So all of these things that Zach was
talking about, I grew up on the inside
of that.
So members of my family were the, you
know, they're the ones who are executing this
insane vision of building a state for Jewish
people in the country that belongs to somebody
else.
And so my experience, obviously, was different because
when you're in it, you know, I thought
I was I thought I was living in
a country called Israel.
I had no idea that I was actually
in Palestine until much later.
And my experience didn't come.
So, first of all, to me, Zionism is
not something that I had to study.
To me, Zionism was was a way of
what I heard every single day at the
dinner table.
That's the only thing that was ever discussed.
The state, the Jewish state, the Zionist state,
Zionism, the state and how we make the
state stronger and how we contribute to the
state.
That that was everything was very patriotic, quote
unquote, patriotic upbringing.
So for me, it took a terrible tragedy.
To have my worldview all shaken up.
And sadly, I think that happens quite often
that we're forced to divorce from our core
beliefs and what we believe are our values
and things we hold dear and kind of
review them is usually because or very often
it's because of a terrible tragedy.
So that was my case.
My sister's little girl was killed in a
suicide mission in Jerusalem by Palestinians, of course.
So that was the drive to examine, reexamine
everything.
And then in terms of courage and paying
the price, I wouldn't categorize what I've done
as courage.
Well, I mean, I appreciate the sentiment, but
there's really I mean, I didn't risk anything.
And I didn't lose anything, so.
Some people who were my friends no longer
speak to me, that's I don't see that
as a loss.
If they maintain their racist views, then that's
their problem.
And family is always complicated.
So in my family, we have the entire
range.
Currently, my family members, most of them don't
speak to me.
But again, that's the process that's part of
they choose to be racist.
That's their decision.
And I agree with Zach, the benefits.
Of being involved in this work, the gains,
the relationships of being involved on this with
this issue are enormous.
They're they're beyond any, you know, words can't
even begin to describe the connections, the generosity.
And really, in my case, the transformation is
thanks to a very large degree to the
generosity of the Palestinian community where I was
living at the time.
Which is in San Diego, in Southern California.
It was their generosity and their welcoming of
me and allowing me to go through this
process.
That they were my support in a way.
Nobody ever accused me.
Nobody ever pointed a finger at me or
anything like that.
It was always a very generous, very welcoming,
very supportive.
And that's how I was able to do
that.
So that's that was my process.
That's that's what I went through.
You know, I believe I expressed a sentiment
on behalf of all of us that we
are really in awe of the both of
your your courage and bravery.
I mean, you're both coming from a place
of power and privilege and connections and government.
And you have, as you said, the authority
and the right to go back and have
a place in that land.
And yet the both of you gave up
at great personal cost.
And even some of your careers and others
have been affected as well.
And you're here on the correct side, which
happens to be our side.
But you're here having.
Given up privilege, power, certain careers, wealth, family
connections.
And the only reason you're doing this is
because you want to stand on the side
of truth and because the purity of your
sincerity is more precious to you than the
corruption of politics and whatever the other side
is offering.
So on behalf of all of us, really,
we're we're very grateful.
And we ask, you know, God to protect
you and to guide you and to benefit
the community through you.
So another round of applause for them.
Now, as I go through our questions, there
is a common sentiment, no exaggeration, at least
30 questions, roughly the same.
I'm just going to phrase them all in
one.
And again, the question is to the both
of you.
There's literally like 50 questions here.
30 are exactly the same, but different wording.
And that is there is a sense of
great frustration.
One year has gone by.
Nothing we've done has seemed to work.
So we're asking the both of you, what
specifically can we do given the fact that
we are not politicians?
We are not, you know, multibillionaires.
We don't have, you know, the connections.
We're just your average Muslim American citizen.
There's a sense of great frustration.
So we're turning to you for your guidance.
What specific strategies can you advise us to
do about bringing about a change and ending
the genocide?
And again, the question is to the both
of you.
There is no right or wrong way to
be an activist.
It's very situational, depending on your position in
life.
I would also say that.
We learned over this past election cycle that
change does not happen primarily at the ballot
box.
It happens if you're a student on your
college campus where your university is almost certainly
invested in companies profiting off Israel's occupation, occupation,
ethnic cleansing, apartheid and now genocide.
If you're a student, that means you can
be involved in the BDS movement on campus,
in the encampments.
Encouraging your university to divest from those companies.
Maybe you work at a company, maybe that
company is Amazon and hosts the cloud services
of the Israeli army.
Maybe you can advocate within your company to
help your company divest from those investments and
those initiatives.
Maybe you're just in a community like this
or you have family and friends who may
not be bought in.
I perhaps in this room, that's probably less
likely to be the case.
But maybe at your workplace, you have colleagues
and who are not aware, who do not
know what is happening.
Maybe online you have an audience and a
following.
You can speak about what is happening online.
Education is so important.
It starts with education.
Maybe you live close to an Elbit factory
and you can go protest and prevent those
manufacturing companies from physically sending the weapons and
the drones and the bombs to kill innocent
people.
So there's no right or wrong way to
be an activist.
I think what we can all do is
embrace the call to boycott, divest and sanction
Israel.
That is a very personal thing that we
can all do with our own purchasing power.
We can decide what we spend money on,
what we support, what products we buy, what
companies we support with our own wallet and
our own pocketbooks.
That is something everyone can do.
But let's remember social change and activism.
These things happen very slowly.
The Civil Rights Act of 1965, that's more
than 60 years ago.
Black people in the United States were legally
equal on paper.
And look at what we saw in 2020.
Look at the George Floyd movement.
Look at Black Lives Matter.
It took 60 years and we still do
not have equality in this country.
This is a slow process and it's gradual.
And change does not happen at the ballot
box.
It happens at the dinner table conversations.
It happens at the university campuses.
It happens in the workplace.
I was at an event in a masjid
yesterday, also in Houston, and a very similar
question was asked.
It was framed slightly different.
It was framed as how do we respond
to this enormous power that the other side
has?
And I think the answer is, I mean,
I agree.
I agree with everything that was just said,
of course.
I think it goes back to us being
absolutely truthful.
And not shying away or being afraid to
tell the truth.
We have to be absolutely truthful and unapologetically
truthful.
The other side, either people don't know the
truth.
Maybe they were, you know, in this country,
the education system is a Zionist education system.
People graduate from high school, they are Zionists.
They don't know it, perhaps.
But that's what they know.
You know, if you ask people on the
street, if you say Palestine, they confuse it
with Pakistan half the time.
And if they do know anything about Palestine,
then it's very superficial.
But if you say Israel, oh, yes, of
course we know Israel.
We love Israel.
We support, you know, that sort of thing.
That's the response.
Americans receive a Zionist education, and that's one
of the strengths of the Zionist movement, that
they were able to do that.
They were able to influence education in this
country, among many other things.
So we suddenly show up to people who
were raised as Zionists in this country, and
we say, well, you have to boycott Israel.
Of course they think we're anti-Semitic.
Based on what they know, calling to boycott
and divest and impose sanctions on the only
Jewish state must be anti-Semitic.
So it's up to us to provide the
context, because they don't have it.
Now, things are so extreme right now that
we don't really have time to educate all
of Americans.
That's why in my organization, Palestine House of
Freedom, we are in Washington, D.C., on
Capitol Hill, because those are the people we
want to focus on, the decision makers and
the people that work around them.
But nothing, nothing can replace our being absolutely
resolute and truth about the truth, unapologetic about
the truth, unapologetic about our support for Palestine,
for Palestinians.
That's the only thing we, I think that's
the most powerful tool that we have, is
that we know the truth.
They have a lot of money, the other
side, and they have nothing else.
So they build lies upon lies, and they're
very quick with the lies.
I mean, I don't know if you've probably
heard about what happened in Amsterdam.
Boom.
I mean, they came out with lies so
fast that I was confused.
I thought something else happened that they were
talking about.
You know what I mean?
They were so fast.
I mean, the former Israeli prime minister, all
these people like on social media went, wow.
So the only response is that we know
the truth and we have to use that
tool.
And we used to educate at the workplace,
on our platforms, like Zak was saying, in
every possible way.
And also to remind people of almost three
years ago, Amnesty International published a report on
the apartheid in Palestine.
Check it out.
Everybody should check it out and then refer
to that, say, look, Amnesty International came out
almost three years ago, the report that very
few people use.
We use it a lot.
We use it in our social media to
demonstrate, you know, that apartheid is not something
that somebody invented because they're anti-Semitic.
The term apartheid is a legal term.
It's a crime that's defined in international law.
And Amnesty International, after years of work on
the ground, came out with a very, very
comprehensive report demonstrating that that crime, the crime
of apartheid, is being perpetrated in Palestine for
almost eight decades.
And at the end of the report, there
are recommendations.
So one of the things that I've been
doing is encouraging organizations and groups to adopt
the report.
Adopt the report as an organization, as a,
you know, as a Muslim society, as a,
whatever the, you know, whatever organization you're part
of.
Because when you adopt the report, first of
all, you have to read it, right?
And so the leaders of the community, the
leaders of the organization read it.
But then at the end of the report,
there are recommendations as to what needs to
be done.
What do we do as individuals, as organizations,
as states when the crime is being perpetrated?
And it has to do with sanctions.
It has to do with divestment and so
on.
So that gives a whole different structure to
that.
So tell the truth and then use the
information that we have at our disposal to
share that with other people.
Thank you very much.
So, by the way, just a quick comment,
the most upvoted comment right now is that
Nico and Zachary, sorry to hear about your
situation.
We are all your family.
So we're all welcoming you to our greater
family as well.
OK, so a question for you, Zachary, and
that is.
I guess it's a two part.
Firstly, how do religious Jews reconcile the fact
that according to their theology, the state of
Israel should only be founded after the Messiah?
And then secondly, how do we then talk
to religious Jews about the evils of Zionism,
given that it is intertwined with their theology?
This is a great question.
Just like Christianity and Islam, there are many,
many different types of religious Jews.
You have anti-Zionist religious Jews, you have
non-Zionist religious Jews, you have Zionist religious
Jews.
And because the Jewish tradition is so rich,
there's so many different historical theological trends you
can pull out of, pull from, base your
argument on, that you can argue from a
religious perspective that actually, no, Zionism is part
of the prophetic tradition and that by moving
to Israel, you are actually carrying out God's
will.
And in accordance with Jewish law, you have
lots of rabbinical authorities over the past century
that have come to that conclusion.
Of course, you have 1,900 years of
tradition before that, of halakhic authorities before that,
that all call that heresy.
So just like every other religious tradition, Jewish
religious authorities are divided on this question today.
What I would say is that for many,
many hundreds, if not thousands of years, you
know, Jews lived in exile.
They lived scattered across the four corners of
the world.
And it was for that reason that it
was absolutely critical for those Jewish authorities to
embrace the exile because.
We want to be equal wherever we are.
We we're always going to be scattered around
the world.
But, you know, so of course, we have
to advocate for equality within those countries and
those empires and those regimes.
And so basically, Jewish theology developed as a
result of that.
And statism, as a perspective, was rejected overwhelmingly.
And then what happened was because of the
secular Zionists who were almost, you know, for
the most part, atheists, they had no commitment
to Jewish tradition.
I mean, in fact, that was one of
the reasons they became Zionists, because they rejected
traditional Judaism.
But because they established a state in 48.
Jewish religious authorities followed suit and began to
explain how the state was somehow some fulfillment,
some biblical prophecy.
But I'm not here to tell you what
the right version of Judaism is and what
the wrong version of Judaism is.
I'm here to tell you that equality before
the law, the rule of law, human rights
law, international humanitarian law, international law.
These are the these are the principles that
that we should all embrace.
The Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
This is what we should embrace.
I don't care what kind of Jew you
are or what your theology is.
It's it's those things you need to focus
on.
And that and that is irrespective of what
your religious orientation is.
Miko, a question comes about what is the
best strategy to counter Apex lobbying, and is
there a lobbying on the side of the
Palestinians or the Muslims that you would recommend
or other tactics?
So it's the lobbying, political lobbying issues.
You know, before I answer that, I want
to say a word about the previous question.
Kind of.
So over the last several years, I've been
researching for a book, working on a book
about this community of ultra-Orthodox Jews that
were anti-Zionist and the whole like the
whole this.
Why?
Why is this large community of of the
most observant Jews?
Why did they reject Zionism and why did
they reject the state of Israel?
And I was born and raised in Jerusalem
in a neighborhood neighboring their neighborhoods.
But, you know, we didn't talk to them.
We you know, we looked down at them
because they were religious and so on.
So over the last few years, I've been
working and speaking and staying at their homes
and so on.
Mostly in communities around New York State, in
London, in the UK and in Palestine and
Jerusalem to understand deeply what it is that.
They're rejecting and how does it make sense
that Jews would reject the idea of a
Jewish state and Jews rejected the idea of
sovereignty.
So.
If the Palestine or the way it's referred
to in Judaism, the land of Israel is
a holy land, it's meant for worship, not
for sovereignty.
So the idea of sovereignty is completely rejected.
And one of the things we're seeing today.
And I think this is really, really important.
One of the things we're seeing today is
tens of thousands of young ultra-Orthodox Jews
rejecting the call to serve in the Israeli
army.
And they used to be exempt.
Now they change the law.
So they're out there by the thousands protesting
and they're being arrested.
And it's been going on for several years.
I was in Palestine and Jerusalem a couple
of years ago interviewing some of these anti
-draft activists.
And they're living in hiding.
Because the authorities are looking for them, they
want to arrest them.
So if you meet them, you have to
meet them like at midnight in some alley
and some behind some bookstore.
And, you know, I mean, it's very, very,
you know, it's a completely covert operation.
And when they're confronted with Zionists, because the
Zionists will say to them, you know, Hamas
wants to kill you, too.
Hezbollah wants to kill you, too.
How come you don't want to serve in
the army?
And they say.
We never wanted a state.
We came here to worship.
We're here to worship.
You wanted a state.
This is your problem.
We're not part of this problem.
We didn't create this problem.
You did.
And it's very telling to see these young
ultra-Orthodox Jews, very young men, say this
to the Zionists who are coming to them
and saying, you have to serve in this
army.
So this is your army.
This is not our army.
We are Jewish people.
We don't carry arms.
We don't do this.
We don't steal and we don't kill.
It's part of our religion, you know, not
to kill and not to steal.
So I think it's very, very important to
understand that.
And another thing that I that I did
several times, you know, the Haram al-Sharif,
the Al-Aqsa compound.
These new version, these Zionist Orthodox Jews, which
is a new kind of a mutation.
They go there and they have these tours
and they, you know, by the thousands.
So I walked so I would get in
line and walk up with them just to
hear what they're saying and to see what's
going on.
And I remember standing in line.
And this is your point about the different
rabbis.
So they look and pretend that they are
Orthodox Jews, these settlers.
But the tours, everybody, a lot of people
think a lot of Israelis go on these
tours.
And as you wait to go up, because
they only let a certain number of people
at a time.
There are other Orthodox Jews saying, what are
you doing?
This is forbidden.
This is forbidden.
It's forbidden for Jews to enter the compound
because it's a holy ground.
And Jews for millennia have been prohibited from
entering that space.
And they're saying, no, no, no, we have
our own rabbis, our rabbis say it's fine.
So these are new kind of kind of
settler colonizer rabbis who decided that it was
OK that have Zionized Judaism.
So that's kind of an interesting process.
So I just thought I'd mention that because
I've been I've been working on that and
kind of experiencing that in terms of a
response to AIPAC.
Again, this goes back to organizing.
This goes back to.
Creating a strategy, a winning strategy, and I've
said this to Palestinian friends and people don't
always like to hear this, but the truth
is the Zionists had a winning strategy very
early on and they were willing to put
away their differences.
You know, some were socialist, some were conservative,
some were this, some were that.
But on the issue of a Jewish state,
they're willing to set aside their differences and
align and work together.
And they had a winning strategy.
We don't have a winning strategy.
We're and this is nobody's fault.
I'm not blaming Palestinians, I'm not blaming anyone.
But the reality is that there isn't a
singular.
There isn't a sense that there's a singular
goal that we're all working towards.
People still talk about two state solution, which
is an absolute madness, in my opinion.
So one of the advantages that we've had
right now since we opened, since we started
Palestine House of Freedom is that we are
working together.
Different organizations are coming, discussing, conferring with one
another on how to create this and how
to, first of all, unify around a single
goal, which is a free Palestine with equal
rights on all of historic Palestine.
And the second part is a strategy to
get there, because we never that's never been
part of there's never been one.
This group did this and this group did
that and this group did this and this
group did that, and the conversation has not
been singular.
So that's a challenge that we have that's
on us.
And sadly, it's taken this horror that we've
seen in Gaza over the last year to
bring us together closer and to talk about
this.
But so the good news is we're working
on it.
The reality is that the traditional politics don't
work for us.
The traditional politics, you have to have a
lot of money and you have to be
corrupt.
We need to figure out a way, and
I have this written on my in my
office.
We need to come up with creative strategies
to circumvent traditional politics so that we end
up sitting at the table, so we get
a seat at the table where decisions are
being made, because right now we're excluded.
And so this may be a long answer,
but the reality is that we're not anywhere
near having a strategy, that creative strategy that
will allow us to circumvent traditional politics.
We're not there yet.
We all need to put our heads together.
And that means everybody is going to have
to come up with a strategy.
And this room as well, and many other
spaces that, you know, where this conversation takes
place in order to unite around a strategy.
And they're wonderful organizations that do tremendous work
on Palestine, of course, everywhere.
It would be great if we could, you
know, once we have a singular strategy and
we are focused on a particular goal, I
think things will move much faster.
So that's the answer.
We're not there yet, but that's what needs
to happen for us to be able to
provide an answer and to stand, you know,
to stand, have a solid stance to oppose
the AIPAC and to oppose the Zionist propaganda.
You heard it straight from Mikko's mouth.
It's something that I've been saying and so
many clerics and preachers and teachers have been
saying.
It's not that complicated.
Unity, vision, strategy.
It is so sad that we as a
community are still divided.
And you heard it straight from Mr. Mikko
Pila's mouth.
No matter what the disagreements of the other
group are, when it comes to Israel, they
are united.
Wallahi, it is a shame that the Ummah
cannot be united for Gaza and Palestine.
It is a shame.
We need to be united in spite of
our sectarianism.
Forget about sectarianism.
Forget about our divisions amongst ourselves.
Forget about the different ethnicities.
Forget about anywhere, anything else.
There's a genocide going on.
If they can unite for power and wealth,
we can unite to defend the innocent.
And we have to do so.
So inshallah, we hope one of the biggest
positives that come out of this negative Gaza,
it will force us to raise the bar
amongst ourselves and to unite and to have
that unified strategy.
So thank you very much, Mr. Mikko for
that.
Zachary, a question for you.
Can you elaborate more on the reality of
Christian Zionism and why would Christians be Zionist
and what role it plays in the overall
Zionist strategy or alliance?
So as I talked about at some length,
Zionism was a Christian ideology before it was
a Jewish ideology.
And it started with the Protestant Reformation in
the 16th century when Christian leaders in Europe
rejected church authority and said, we need to
read the Bible literally and we need to
memorize the stories of the Bible.
And that led eventually to this new eschatological
fantasy about Jews congregating in the Holy Land
at the end of days.
And and that led to the political movement
of European Christians in England in the 17th,
18th and 19th centuries calling for a Jewish
state in Palestine.
And that same theological movement, those same beliefs
are held by people like John Hagee, who
is the founder and president of Christians United
for Israel, the organization 10 million strong today,
that is the primary Christian evangelical support for
the state of Israel.
And again, it has to do with these
theological beliefs, these eschatological beliefs about Jews in
gathering at the end of days.
There'll be a rupture.
Jesus will return to planet Earth and there
will be human redemption.
And I'm not a Christian theologian, so I'm
not going to get more in depth than
that.
But that is the basic theology.
And and if you ask an average evangelical
American Christian today, why do you support Israel?
They'll just cite Genesis and tell you, you
know, God gave Israel to the Jews to
Abraham and his offspring, who are the modern
day Jewish people, which is obviously nonsense.
But that is the belief.
And and it's not really much deeper than
that.
I mean, obviously, plenty of people will cite
you all kinds of theological explanations.
But for the average evangelical American, that is
what it comes down to.
And it's also wrapped up in these very
racist, very orientalist, very bigoted views about the
Orient and Muslims and Arabs being backwards.
And it's it's tied into that.
And this belief that, oh, the Jews, they
need a homeland and the Arabs.
Well, they don't want to.
They're all just Arabs.
Don't they just go to Jordan or Syria
or Egypt?
It's all wrapped up in this very, you
know, Judeo-Christian centric view of the world
that puts Christians and Jews above Muslims.
And, you know, I would maybe I'll pause
there and feel free to add anything.
But thank you very much.
Thank you.
So, Nico, this is an awkward question.
It's up to you how much you want
to go or you want to or you
want to just pass.
It's fine as well.
But what are your views on the Trump
presidency?
And do you think anything is going to
change under his administration?
It's up to you if you want to
pass it.
I think it's an interesting question.
A lot of people ask that.
And I think our our issue is unique.
I mean, I know that for I'm sorry,
I think, you know.
Our issue is unique.
I know that on many, many other issues,
immigration, asylum seekers, women's rights, religious rights, on
and on and on.
His presidency promises dark days.
On our issue, either way, we are facing
dark days.
So we need to just continue pushing forward
as hard as we can.
And I think that on this particular issue,
if we look at other examples, historically, when
the conversation shifts, it shifts across the board.
So if we take South African apartheid, for
example, one day it was OK to support
apartheid.
The next day, nobody was supporting apartheid and
everybody claimed Nelson Mandela is their hero.
It was across the board.
And I think I mean, nobody knows how
soon Palestine is going to be free, but
I would put it past the possibility that
it could be Donald Trump president when Palestine
is free.
I mean, I know it sounds completely crazy
at this moment, but I think that if
we push hard enough, once the conversation shifts
and that's really key to shift the conversation,
particularly in Washington, D.C., from a completely
pro-Israel, pro-genocide to dismantling apartheid and
establishing a free Palestine.
But it could be under a Trump administration.
If we push hard enough, if we do
everything that we can do, then again, once
the conversation shifts, it'll shift across the board.
I mean, it was Ronald Reagan who eventually,
you know, was the president when the United
States decided to boycott apartheid South Africa.
So it's not, you know, it sounds crazy,
but I don't think it's an impossibility.
It's really up to us to push as
hard as we can to bring the shift
in the conversation on Palestine.
You know, if there was a different president
elected, I don't think we would have had
to work any less hard in order to
accomplish the same thing.
So on this issue, you know, that's my
response.
Thank you.
So back to you, Zachary.
Question for you.
Is there any or do you have any
statistics on what percentage of Jewish people identify
as Zionist, pro-Zionist, anti-Zionist?
And also, can you tell us about the
Natura Quartai?
And would it be useful for us to
ally with them or push them as an
alternative?
Well, I think Miko just said he's writing
a book about them, so maybe I'll let
him answer that part of the question.
But as to the first part of the
question around American Jews and what percentage are
Zionist, pro-anti, pro-anti.
There have been some very interesting polls that
have come out in the past few years.
There was a poll that came out in
2022 in which something like 30 percent of
American Jewish millennials or younger described Israel as
an apartheid state.
I think today that number would probably be
more like 40 or 50 percent.
We're talking about Jews, let's say, under 40,
45.
Obviously, the case is different for the older
generations.
As for genocide.
I think the most recent poll I saw
was something like 30 percent of American Jews,
all American Jews, describe what Israel is doing
in Gaza as a genocide.
We already said 77 percent of Democrats support
an arms embargo on Israel and Jews are
80 percent Democrat.
Or 75 percent Democrat.
I saw another poll that came out not
so long ago.
I think I'm a 40 percent, something like
40 percent of American Jews also support an
arms embargo on Israel.
So, again, the key question is what age
are we talking about?
What age group are we talking about?
The divide is not Jewish, non-Jewish, it's
generational.
Young American Jews are just as pro-Palestine
as non-Jews.
Go around to the college campuses where you
had encampments.
Everywhere you go, they were having sukkot.
They were building a sukkah on the college
campus encampment at Harvard, at Princeton.
Jews are some of the most actively, I
mean, maybe as a percentage of total Jews,
they're still sort of in the minority of
American Jews, but they are the most vocal
of any American group.
I would, by the way, include Muslims and
Arabs in this group.
The American anti-Zionist Jews are the most
vocal.
They take over train stations.
They take over bridges.
They took over the Tundra on Capitol Hill.
They are the most active and the most
vocal and the loudest because they see what
is being perpetrated in their name is so
horrifying that this genocide is being carried out
somehow in the name of defending Jews.
It is absolutely horrifying to us.
And so I think there is a very
strong movement, especially among young Jews who are
calling for change.
And the Netura Cartel?
And the Netura Cartel.
I mean, look, what was the exact question?
Like, should we ally with them?
Are they who are they?
We don't really know much about them, but
they seem...
I mean, Miko, please, please jump in here.
But, you know, look, the Netura Cartel, this
is some of the most vocal social justice
activists, period.
I mean, they sacrificed everything.
You know, these people, for them, you know,
we have a tradition in Judaism.
I mean, someone actually just came up to
me earlier and said there's a very similar
tradition in Islam, which I was not aware
of.
But if you save one life, you save
the entire world.
We have the exact same concept in Judaism.
You know, Rabbi Akiva in Pirkei Avot was
asked to summarize all the entire Torah standing
on one foot.
He said, you know, treat others like you
want to be treated.
That's the entirety of the Torah in four
words.
OK, so there's a very strong tradition in
the Jewish community.
I mean, supporting human rights.
I mean, Abraham Joshua Heschel stood alongside Martin
Luther King Jr. marching for equality for all.
And the Netura Cartel is exactly the same.
You know, these are the most active, the
most outspoken people for Palestine.
So absolutely, form alliances, build bridges with them.
Excellent.
Thank you.
I would just add, I mean, absolutely.
But yeah, I would add just some historical
context.
So kind of like what you were saying
when it became obvious.
So let me start from the beginning.
So when Zionism emerged at the end of
the 19th, beginning of the 20th century across
the board, Jews rejected it in the 1900.
A group of major rabbis came out with
a booklet with a manifesto.
In which they were warning Jewish people of
the dangers of Zionism, the dangers of the
Jewish state.
And basically, they said three things.
A Jewish state will bring violence to the
Holy Land.
It will ruin the good relations between Jews
and Muslims and Jews and Arabs.
And will cast doubt as to the loyalty
of Jews who live as a as a
religious minority everywhere across the world.
In other words, it's bad news for Jewish
people.
And certainly the Jewish community in Palestine.
Rejected the notion of a Jewish state completely
to the point that when the Jewish state
was established, they were begging the United Nations
to give them a special status so they
wouldn't have to be citizens of the state,
which they rejected.
Now, in the 1930s, the mid 1930s, there
were parts of the Jewish community in Palestine
that thought, well, we reject this idea, but
maybe we should work with them since they
are Jews.
And that's when a Tura Karta was formed.
And Tura Karta is an Aramaic for the
guardians of the city.
So they see themselves as guardians of Judaism.
And they said, absolutely not.
We will not discuss.
We will not negotiate.
We will not have anything, any part of
Zionism.
Today, all these years later.
The Tura Karta are the activists.
I mean, they they're you know, there's there's
there's a small group compared to the entirety
of of of ultra-Orthodox Jews.
Ultra-Orthodox Jews are by and large not
Zionist or anti-Zionist.
The Tura Karta are the fighters.
They're the activists.
They're the ones who show up and and
absolutely align.
I mean, they go everywhere besides the fact
that they've been to Gaza and they've been
to Lebanon and they've been to Yemen and
they go to Iran and they speak with
everyone.
They show up to protest, rain or shine.
And they are incredibly courageous.
So absolutely aligning with them.
And there are so many, you know, there's
so many places where, you know, the real
Jewish, you know, observant Jews.
The laws that they follow, the traditions they
follow are so similar to Islam.
Yeah.
Places where the two religions are so close.
It's obvious these two religions are sister religions
that absolutely.
I think they're I think they're they're wonderful
allies for Palestine.
And I remind people that they've been standing
for Palestine long before any of us did.
You know, they've been standing for Palestine and
demanding and rejecting the idea of Zionist sovereignty
in Palestine long before, you know, most of
us even thought in that direction.
So absolutely.
They're wonderful allies.
Thank you very much.
And on a personal anecdote.
So as you were when we had the
D.C. March for Palestine, around half a
million people showed up and I was speaking
there.
And so when I was speaking, there was
at least like 300 of the Natura Carta,
you know, because they dress like Orthodox Jews.
They have their their turbans or what do
you call it?
The yeah, the the the the strimal, the
strimal.
They had that on.
So I asked, like, who are these people?
They said, oh, the Natura Carta here.
And they had to walk because it was
a Sabbath, the Saturday.
They had to walk because they're not allowed
to take the car there.
And over 300 of them came, including their
chief rabbi in America.
They came in to attend the protest on
our side.
And they're having banners, Jews for Israel and
Jews for peace and Jews against Zionism.
So if you watch my video, which is
on YouTube, I actually changed my script and
I added a paragraph praising.
And I said, these are the real followers
of Moses.
These are the real people who love God
and are showing that, you know, the the
laws of the Torah.
So definitely, you know, there are definitely our
allies here.
I'll say one more thing, if I may.
Sure.
On November 21st, one of the rabbis, Rabbi
Feldman, who is one of the leaders of
the Natura Carta in the U.S., is
coming to our to Palestine House of Freedom
in D.C. And we're going to do
an event where we he will be discussing
how or explaining how rejecting Zionism is not
only is not anti-Semitic.
It's quite the opposite, you know, because Zionism
is an affront to Judaism and that we
also have a YouTube channel, Palestine House of
Freedom.
So we're going to post it on there
as well.
So just so you know that that conversation
is coming up.
OK, thank you.
Shall we go for another 10 minutes or
so?
And then shall I wrap it up?
So next question.
I don't know who to ask amongst us.
So whoever wants to take this question, it's
an interesting one.
How do you explain the complete unprofessionalist behavior
of the idea of soldiers on social media
and their postings?
Do they have no military censorship or is
there an actual strategy to indicate their barbarity?
And you're aware of what we're talking about,
the idea of posting, you know, the types
of stuff that they post, which is absolutely
despicable.
So somebody is wondering, is this a tactic
or what is going on?
How can they just get away with this?
Whoever wants to take that?
Well, the only way to explain it is,
you know, if you if you take, you
know, gangsters, gangsters that operate with immunity, they're
not afraid of any authority.
There's no law.
There's no authority that holds them accountable.
They will become worse and worse and worse.
They will and they flaunt their their their
their crimes in public.
Because why not?
It's a gangster mentality.
I mean, the entire Israeli response to what
happened on October 7th is a gangster mentality.
They were defeated.
They're humiliated on October the 7th.
So what does a gangster do?
They find the weakest victim.
And they unleash their wrath and their vengeance
on that victim that is helpless, that is
defenseless.
And that's what we've seen in Gaza over
the last year.
And then since again, they can act with
impunity.
No one is holding them accountable.
Then we see this this this insane, you
know, behavior.
And they're not they're not shy about it.
The other thing is, I think people overrate.
There's a tendency to overrate the military prowess
of the Israeli army.
The Israeli army is nothing but a but
a glorified gang.
It's a glorified gangsters, really.
The battles and wars that they were victorious
were battles and wars against largely either non
-military civilians, like in 1948, the Nakba.
Now it's been happening, you know, you know,
suppressing Palestinian resistance.
And even when they fought other armies, they
knew for a fact.
And I think I said this when I
was here last time I talked about it.
They knew for a fact that they were
going to win because the other side was
not prepared.
And these were armies that were easily defeatable.
So they've never actually if they were which,
you know, facing well-trained, disciplined and motivated
Palestinian fighters, they get killed.
They're easily defeated.
I think one of the reasons.
One of the one of several reasons that
we have not yet seen a war with
Iran is because the Israeli military knows that
a war with Iran will bring about a
horrible defeat.
And they know that.
And that's why they tread very carefully when
it comes to, you know, dealing with Iran
militarily.
So it's not really an army.
It's a glorified gang.
And what we're seeing is a behavior of
gangsters, really.
And because, again, they're not held responsible or
accountable.
They can just, you know, do the stuff,
the stuff that they do on social media.
OK, thank you.
Let's wrap it up with our final questions
for the both of you.
So, Zachary, what resources would you recommend for
us to read or to have access to
to gain more knowledge about how to engage
with Zionists?
And there's a lot of questions.
I have a Jewish co-worker, Zionist colleague.
You know what resources or how do I
approach them one on one?
What exactly do I bring up and references
that you can advise us to read so
that we are better also prepared to engage
with them?
Well, what I would say before sharing some
names of individuals who I would recommend or
some books or some podcasts that I would
recommend would be a very general point about
the nature of this country and the nature
of the state of Israel, founded on very,
very, or at least today, operating according to
very, very different set of principles.
And I'm not here to pretend like there
aren't problems in this country.
Of course, there are lots and lots of
problems in this country that we need to
solve.
But there is at least a facade, at
least a guiding principle, a North Star that
says everyone's equal before the law.
Doesn't matter what your religion is, doesn't matter
what your ethnicity is, doesn't matter what your
race is.
In theory, you should be equal before the
law.
And that should be the starting point for
talking to people who are maybe Zionist or
maybe Jewish or maybe sympathetic to Zionism, because
obviously they believe that to be true.
They must believe that in the United States,
you should be equal before the law, regardless
of whether you're Muslim, Jewish or Christian.
But in Israel, it does not work that
way.
Not not according to the letter of the
law, according to the letter of the law,
if you know, in Israel proper, you know,
within the 48, 48 Palestine, you if you're
a Muslim or a Christian, if you're a
Palestinian, you cannot live in one of 900
communities in Israel.
You are effectively barred from owning 90 percent
of the country of the land.
I mean, in the United States, it used
to be that that way as well.
Yeah.
Sixty five years ago.
OK, and then in Gaza, you live in
a concentration camp.
I mean, yeah, you're basically a slave.
You can't move anywhere.
You have no political rights, you know.
So I mean, do these people not realize
that that is exactly do they want to
live in a country where you're divided?
Your rights are dependent on what your religion,
race or ethnicity is.
Would they want to live in that country?
So that's, I think, a good starting point,
a good frame of reference for talking to
people in this country about Israel, Palestine or
Palestine.
I think, you know, just to mention some
specific people who I think are speak truth
to power, who are very insightful.
I would mention Francesca Albanese, the U.N.
repertoire for a special human, the U.N.
special repertoire for human rights in the occupied
territories.
She's a very powerful voice.
I would recommend Ilan Pape, an Israeli historian
who speaks very powerfully about the situation.
I would I would recommend Noura Arakat and
Rashid Khalidi, both scholars on Palestine of Palestinian
heritage.
I mean, there's so many powerful voices right
now.
Ali Abunimah, Max Blumenthal.
I mean, there's so many people who are
speaking truth to power.
Electronic Intifada has a great live stream.
I would recommend Mondo Weiss.
I would I would recommend the Gray Zone.
I would recommend Amy Goodman's program, Democracy Now.
There's so many people.
I would obviously recommend all the journalists on
the ground.
Maryam Barghouti, all the journalists based in Gaza
who are talking about the situation, reporting live,
telling you what's happening day in, day out.
Follow them all.
Just have your Zionist colleagues and friends follow
the people reporting from the ground.
And once you see what's happening on the
ground, you know, and you're a human being.
Then I don't know how that could possibly
not change you.
Thank you very much.
I would I agree a thousand percent.
I would just add to that something that
adds gives perspective is to be educated about
the history of Palestine pre-1948.
Almost always when people refer to the history
of Palestine, they go back 1948 or the
beginning of the 20th century.
There's very little talk about what happened before
that.
And I'll tell I'll just say two things
about that.
One, if you ever come to if you're
ever in in Virginia, if anybody's ever been
to to Monticello, Thomas Jefferson's estate.
Has anybody been there, visited there?
When you walk into Thomas Jefferson's home.
In the foyer of the house, there's a
big map of Africa that his father drew.
His father was a cartographer, I believe.
And if you look at that massive map,
it's the entire wall.
If you look slightly north and east, there's
a stretch of land and there's these big
black letters.
Guess what it says?
It says Palestine.
So nobody mentions that people say, you know,
Palestine has been Palestine going back a very
long time.
So it's really important.
You know, Palestine was a flourishing country.
Europeans and others did trade with Palestine.
They were importing cotton and oil and barley
and all kinds of, you know, things that
were being imported from Palestine.
There was a rich political life and cultural
life and so on.
And there's a great Palestinian writer who wrote
a couple of historical novels that I always
recommend.
His name is Ibrahim Nasrallah.
And you can hear it in Arabic if
you read Arabic or they've been translated.
And check out Ibrahim Nasrallah.
He's got two very, very, really excellent, my
favorite historical novels.
One is called The Time of White Horses.
And the other one, and it's about a
single village from the Ottoman days to 1948.
And the other one historically precedes that period.
And it's called The Lanterns of the King
of Galilee.
And it is the, it is, it was,
you know, it's a historic novel about a
Palestinian figure that is a very important Palestinian
leader by the name of Zahir al-Omar.
And he basically governed Palestine throughout the, you
know, 18th century.
Nobody knows about these people.
Nobody knows about these things.
And so if you like literature, you know,
he's a, you know, Ibrahim Nasrallah is a
great writer.
But these novels, I always recommend them because
they give context, historical context.
Oh, and there's one more which is a
historian by the name of Nur Masalha.
And Nur Masalha is a Palestinian historian.
And he is, the book that I recommend
is called Palestine, a 4,000-Year History.
And it gives you a 4,000-Year
History, not mythology, not biblical stories, history.
But basically demonstrates how that land was referred
to as Palestine going back to the pharaohs.
And he shows how each and every empire
that ruled the region referred to it as
Palestine and how Palestine evolved.
So I would add that just to give
historical context because otherwise, people get lost in
the Zionist arguments that it was always Israel.
And the Jews have a right to return
and all of that, which is called nonsense
and I agree.
And so I would just add that to
the list.
Thank you very much.
So brothers and sisters, as we wrap up,
I think what just happened a few days
ago in Amsterdam actually serves as an illustrative
example of how collectively we can make a
difference and impact broader society.
For those of you that are not aware,
a soccer match between an Israeli team and
others, it turned into just a bunch of
hooligans.
The Israeli fans went and they were the
ones that started it.
Video footage is very clear.
They started attacking the Palestinian flag, attacking even
people on the street, punching them.
And obviously when that happens, the other side,
a lot of Moroccans, a lot of Palestinians,
a lot of Arabs, a lot of regular
people just got involved and started pushing back
and defending themselves.
Initially, a number of news outlets actually reported
quite factually that the Israeli fans were chanting
death to the Arabs.
The Israeli fans were desecrating Palestinian flags.
And then, you know, a riot broke out
and they attacked and then they were attacked
back.
Subhanallah, amazingly, not surprisingly, a number of these
channels then withdrew this report and released a
counter report.
And the counter report was blatantly spinning this
as a, I kid you not, the word
pogrom was used, right?
Although nobody lost their lives.
The word anti-Semitism was thrown around everywhere
constantly that, oh, the Palestinians are attacking the
Israelis.
This is happening in the heart of Europe.
Unbelievably, as if synchronized, coordinated, our president, Canada's
president, England's prime minister, multiple leaders gave very
similar statements about, you know, we decry the
rise of anti-Semitism.
But social media did not remain quiet.
And average people, users, you and us, everybody,
they just got active and began showing video
footage, began pushing back so much so that
a number of mainstream media outlets had to
withdraw the second report and basically put a
pause on the story and release a third
version.
And what this shows is that collectively we
can make a difference.
And this is where we want to conclude
here.
I know we feel so demoralized.
I know the sentiment is as if how
can this ever end?
Yet there are victories everywhere we see.
We heard statistics of a large group of
even Jewish Americans are changing their mind.
The youngsters now, the younger generation now, they're
understanding this reality.
We're in this battle for the long run.
It might not be an immediate victory.
And the Quran reminds us.
Do not give up and do not falter.
And you shall be victorious if you have
faith.
And the Quran reminds us.
If Allah helps you, then none can overcome
you.
And if you do not seek Allah's help,
well, then you have none to blame but
yourselves.
Do not falter.
Do not give up.
Every small victory is going to lead into
the larger victory.
I understand we feel what can we possibly
do?
Hearing these numbers, AIPAC spent a hundred million
dollars, a hundred million dollars.
But you know what?
They might have money, but they don't have
the truth.
Truth is on our side.
Facts are on our side.
They cannot spin the truth forever.
So keep on doing what we're doing.
Keep on spreading the word.
Keep on spreading compassion and love and mercy.
Keep on changing the hearts and minds of
the people.
And slowly but surely, we're going to see
from this chaos inshallah peace will come out.
There shall be a free Palestine.
There shall be a free Gaza.
There shall be a free Masjid al-Aqsa.
And our goal is to be a part
of that process.
And I want to conclude, I'll say this
directly in front of our guests over here.
And I'm sorry if I put you on
the spot or make you feel a little
embarrassed, but it needs to be said here.
These two guests of ours, if they don't
inspire you, if they don't, they spoke the
truth at great personal cost.
We just heard they lost their friends and
their families.
We just heard their families are not even
speaking to them.
And yet here they are speaking the truth.
What excuse do we have?
What is our excuse for not standing up
and doing what we can?
If they don't inspire you, then who else
is going to inspire you?
So do not be scared.
Do not be coward.
Stand up, preach the truth, stand up and
influence people.
Be brave.
Be armed with knowledge.
Know what to say and keep on doing
this.
And inshallah, slowly but surely we shall see
victory.
We have no doubt.
Ala inna nasrallahi qareeb.
Ala inna nasrallahi qareeb.
We have no doubt about this.
So keep on doing what we're doing.
Make dua to Allah.
Do not lose hope in what we are
doing.
Put your trust in our Lord and inshallah
ta'ala we shall see a free Gaza
in our lifetimes.
Jazakumullahu khair for all of you and especially
to our guests here.
Please welcome, stand up and welcome our guests
here.
We really thank them for all.
And as I say, I express the sentiment.
I understand you lost family and friends, but
all of us are your family and friends.
We're all here for you.
Anything you need.
Thank you very much on our behalf.
And we hope inshallah anytime you come, we're
always going to be here.
Thank you very much.
Alhamdulillah.