Ask Shaykh YQ – Episode 35 – Is Insurance Halal or Ḥaram

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one of the most common questions that I've been asked is about the issue of insurance. So I'm gonna answer all of these questions in Charlotte today. And because the topic is so long and detailed, it will be our only question for today. So the topic for today is, what is the position of our scholars with regards to overall the topic of insurance? Whether it is commercial insurance, house insurance, car insurance, life insurance, what is the opinion of scholars about insurance? This will be our topic for today. So we answered this question by beginning that, but with the definition, what exactly is insurance insurance Of course, as we all know, it is a form of risk management where lots

of people come together. These are the policyholders, and they pay a company, the insurance company a known fee to protect them against an unknown event or an uncertain future event. And of course, the concept of insurance was not around in the time of, you know, the prophets are some of the Sahaba, when the Quran was revealed, the people were not doing these types of transactions. In fact, insurance is a relatively modern phenomenon. And it only began in the 17th century, after the Great Fire of London in 1666. If you're aware of your history, London was engulfed in flames. And I think a quarter of the city or half the city was was destroyed 10s of 1000s of houses were destroyed. And

so the concept came of the people who lost their properties that what if we were somehow protect the value of our property, and have a fee that we can pay to a company that we can gain back the protection of our house. And this began the concept if you like of house insurance. And in fact, our own funding for the Benjamin Franklin, when he came to America, he actually founded the Philadelphia contribution for the insurance of houses from the loss of fire, that's the name of the company. So if your house is burned in a fire, Benjamin Franklin has a business if you pay him money, then he will do that. The first therefore was house insurance within a few decades. England Of course, at

this time is a naval superpower rich merchants are sending their ships overseas, and they don't know what's gonna happen to my merchandise will a pirate attack it will some type of you know, issue take place and all of my money will be lost. And so these merchants came together, and they over literally coffee discussions at a coffee house in London, the issue or the the notion came about? What if we were to pay a fee, so that in case something happens, right, we will then get our money back from that merchandise. Hence, in 1774 Lloyd's of London famous company, Lloyds, which is still one of the largest insurance companies in the world, Lloyd's of London began offering what we now

call business, you know, insurance or merchandise insurance. And around the same time as well, the concept of life insurance also came about, even though obviously, to be technical, all of these prototypes are very different from modern equivalents. But still, the notion is coming, house insurance, property insurance, life insurance is all coming in the same timeframe. Interestingly enough, it was only after great crises took place in the Western world where the concept of insurance became common. So for example, it was after the American Civil War, when so many people died, that, you know, men who were still alive said, you know, we should have a life insurance on

ourselves in case we die. And the largest spike in life insurance happened after World War One, believe it or not, when so many hundreds of 1000s of people died. So those that were left alive, were like, Hey, we might as well get insurance over here. So it's interesting how calamities had an impact on insurance. Now, before I even get to the 50 issue, obviously, the question a lot of us have, how can these insurance companies make a profit anyway, I mean, if you think about it, you're paying, you know, 100 $200, whatever, per month, and then when you need them, they're gonna pay you 1020 $30,000 or life insurance, you're paying, you know, 5060, for those of you that, you know,

might possibly have it, we'll get to the verdict soon. And the goal is to get half a million, right? So how are they going to get into how are they going to make a profit when you are paying a nominal fee. And the response to this is by pooling together a large amount of people's money, and then aggressively investing that money in bonds or in other profitable enterprises, and also sometimes giving banks that money so that they can give it an interest. So then the interest companies get at an interest. And by calculating for example, if all of this crowd were to give to the company, right, how many will actually need at any given time. Not all of them small percentage.

So the insurance company essentially takes a large amount of pool of cash from lots of people, and aggressively makes a guaranteed profit on that in giving bonds and interest and whatnot. And then it has its complex calculations that what percentage is going to ask the money is going to be a minimal percent, or a lesser percent. And so overall, they will make a profit. And the fact of the matter is, insurance companies regularly make large profits. Generally speaking, in the modern world, insurance companies are a profitable business, and they make profits, you know, regularly. And therefore, one can say simplistically, that insurance companies make a profit from two sources.

Number one, the premiums collected from lots of people, which they calculate will be more than the amounts they pay back to some people, right. And then number two, they take all of this wealth, and they aggressively put it in stocks or bonds, a lot of times because they need guaranteed they cannot usually invest it in in areas that there might be a loss in so they aggressively invest in guaranteed profit. And so this will also give them back their profit. Now, obviously, the goal of every insurance company is to make a profit. And that is not problematic, per se, every company you know, its goal is to make profit. And the insurance companies have an army of statistical tons of

mathematics, experts of sociologists, who calculate complex equations, have trends of human society, like what percentage will actually need health insurance based upon that they will calculate their premiums. So there's nothing wrong with the goal of making a profit, every company wants to make a profit. However, the issue that comes is that insurance companies are different from other businesses, in that there's no tangible item being sold. There's no actual service that they are giving. So they are a different type of business than the one that most people are accustomed to dealing with. When you go buy a car, you're purchasing something, you buy food, you're purchasing

something, or you buy a service, right, even you can buy a service, no problem, you're buying something that is tangible, somebody comes in or you buy a software or somebody comes in cleans your house, you're buying something that is tangible, you can measure it. The problem comes Of course, insurance is not something that is tangible. Rather, it is paying money to guarantee the return of money in an unlikely event of an accident or misfortune, or if it's life insurance, and the likely an inevitable event of death whenever it happens, which you want to still delay as much as possible. And the insurance company also wants you to delay because they don't want you to die immediately.

They want you to live a long life to get your premiums as well. So this is a brief history of insurance and what insurance is. And therefore obviously insurance is a modern issue, you're not going to find statements of the classical scholars have been Tamia did not write about insurance. It didn't exist in his time. However, interestingly enough, by the way, one of the greatest scholars of the Maliki method by the name of an ash hub, who wrote Alamo Juana and he is one of the main founders of the Maliki method. After Mr. Malik, in his famous book, he died 204 100. So very early scholar, he's giving examples of false transactions. And a modern researcher has come across a

paragraph in his book, in which essentially, he describes interest, it's a theoretical, he goes, what does this what to have that and he says, For example, and this is from his book, ermelo went up that it is not allowed for a person, as you will know, to say to another, I will give you this much money to protect my merchandise to such and such a time, because I'm going to use technical terms, just memorize them, we're going to come back to them, because there is a lot of, and kaymar. These are technical terms, I'm going to come back to it because there is Laura and Kumar in these contracts. Because the one who paid the money, the one who was paid the money, excuse me, the one

who was paid the money. If he knew that the merchandise would perish. If he knew the merchandise would be destroyed, he would not be content with a small amount of money. In fact, he wouldn't be even willing double or triple this amount. And the one who's paying the money. If he knew that his merchandise would be safe, he wouldn't pay anything. Right? So he is saying that there is an amount of Lara and Kumar, and he goes, it's well known this contract cannot be valid. Now this is actually very accurately, hypothetically describing interest. And ash hub is of the era of the great imams. He's even before amendment Bahati, he's 206 Hydra. Now, even though this is theoretical one, this

overall attitude of our modern scholars has been to problematize and generally prohibit the course

concept of interest as it currently exists. Now, there is a concept called to count food and HDMI, there's a concept called takaful HDMI, which is a mutually you know, pooled resources of interest, which some scholars have said is an alternative in today's lecture, I will not even talk about it for one simple reason, it doesn't exist right now, it is a hypothetical alternative. And our scholars say, people should do this. And the example is if 100 people came together, all of them are paying to a big pot. And if somebody needs the money from that pot, then he will get the money that is in that pot, then he will, you know, continue to give back until somebody else gives. So they say

this is a type of mutual, you know, interest account for HTML. And it's hypothetical, it doesn't actually exist in the Western world for sure. Some countries like Malaysia and others are attempting to do something of this nature, where they have an alternative to interest or sorry, alternative to, to insurance, but it doesn't exist in the Western world at all. So I'm talking about practical interest as interest that exists over here. So the overall philosophy of pretty much most of the scholars of Islam, from the time of the 1700s, when interest came out up until our times is that conceptually speaking, the contract of interest is not a valid contract in accordance with the

principles of Islamic law. And they gave four primary reasons why this is the case, they have more than four for our lecture, we'll do number four, number one hot or we already came across the word hot. All right, number one hot hot. And we're going to come to this number two, they said there is an element of interest that is clear, number three Pima which is gambling. Okay, number three, gambling. And number four, they said, some of them said that having insurance goes against tawakkol and belief in other and they have other issues as well. And my brief talk today will mention only these four. Now, in my humble opinion. The first two are the clear cut issues that make interest

from an Islamic paradigm, something that is very problematic, and that is horror and interest, the issue of kaymar or gambling, it is valid but not as strong as the first two. And the fourth issue that it goes against a man in Qatar, in my humble opinion, it should not be on this list at all. Because why is this the case? Imagine other is one thing. And using reasonable precautions is another thing. If insurance were helpful, then it would be something we should do to protect ourselves from misfortune or calamity, just like we install fire detectors, just like we wear armor if we're going into battle, just like our profitsystem said, tie your camel and then put your trust

in Allah. So, the issue of bringing in a man bill Kadar when it comes to interest is not a valid way to refute the concept of interest, because anything that is halal can be used to protect yourself against a misfortune and in fact, that is a part of other it is a part of khadir to use our natural resources to protect ourselves against a calamity, right? Therefore, this whole issue of saying that interest goes against a man in other in my humble opinion, it is an incorrect point to bring in, it should not be brought in in the first place when it comes to issue of of insurance, it should only be the first three and that is number one harder, which is the biggest number two interest and

number three gambling gambling. Now we get to

what is a lot of what is a lot and a lot on is such an important concept then we're going to spend a few minutes on it because as you mama know, we said that the concept of horror and the prohibition of horror is one of the foundational premises of Islamic economics is one of the big chapters of Islamic economics, the prohibition of horror, what is horror and where do we get this prohibition from Hadith in Sahih Muslim Abu huraira narrated that the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam forbade they will have saw what they are allowed on the transactions of stones and the transactions of Laura, what is the transaction of stones barrelhouse saw they saw was a transaction in Jamelia

in which a person would have merchandise all in front of him right the the buyer sorry, the seller would have all of his merchandise, and he would go to the purchaser and the purchaser would say here's basically 100 dinars and I will purchase anything my rock falls on. I'm going to throw the rock and whatever pile it falls on. Right? It will be my pile. Now obviously the piles are not

gonna be the same one will be wheat, one will be grain one will be butter, whatever and the person's throwing, and trying to get something over there. So this is obviously a type of unknown or uncertainty. Another version of barrelhouse law is that I will purchase your land as far as my rock can go. So as far as my rock can grow, go, that's how much I will purchase your land. But you see, the strong throw will throw much more and the weak throw throw much less. And so, this is an uncertainty, and therefore, to clarify, what is the base of the transaction of the stone, the Prophet sallallahu Sallam also said what they are a horror and horror means uncertainty a lot are

means unknown, any transaction in which you do not know what you are getting, it is an unknown what you are getting, this transaction is forbidden by the unanimous consensus of all the Medina and scholars of Islam, you cannot purchase an unknown, the contract has to be known, what are you buying for how much money when is the payment going to occur, it must be everything clear cut, if there is an element of extreme uncertainty, then the contract becomes null and void. For example, if somebody says, In this box, there is something but I'm not going to tell you what it is, and I'll sell it to you for $100 this contract is null and void bartholin according to all of the scholars of Islam, you

cannot purchase an unknown or of a person again pulls out a lottery type of stuff. This is the standard lottery if you purchase a ticket of you know $10 one of the people will get it that's the bigger the house aw is basically you're throwing the lottery one of the people will get it and the others will not get it. Now, by the way footnote here, what is forbidden is the essence of the contract being unknown. As for small details being unknown, this is obviously understood when you purchase a car you know the overall state of the car, you know the model, you know, the you know, the state is a good Now obviously, if somebody finds a small scratch underneath the seat or

something you cannot say Oh, I didn't know about this, you know, this is a letter that is you see, they call it negligible amount of water. Okay, you purchase a house you see the overall quality of the house right now if there is you know, one socket of the you know, electric socket broken, you're not going to say oh, you have Miss Miss characterize the house. It's a small amount, right? So this is something that is called alohar. Or ESC a negligible amount of uncertainty, right, a small amount of uncertainty is overlooked. Now, by the way, I've given two examples that are very clear cut, you understand in the middle, there are gray areas, right? And this is not the talk to get into it. But

just to whet your appetite. One of the controversies of modern times in which famous scholars are on both sides is all you can eat buffets.

All you can eat buffets.

So don't

a mom sub does not want me to go there. mean you don't want me to go to the buffets or you don't want me to go to the example of who goes to the buffets.

If there is an all you can eat buffet of halwa puri

and a group of imams Mashallah goes

versus a group of people on the keto carb diet goes, they're gonna pay the same amount, right? But Mashallah imams have Baraka when it comes to our party.

And the keto guys will eat nothing. And this is

jokes aside, is this horror that is extreme, or is this a lot of that is Holly or you see,

most of the dilemma of our time say that this is overlooked a lot of because the restaurant owners have

calculated and figured out an average amount. And on average, a person eats you know, a certain amount and whatnot. But some of my teachers were stricter and they said no, this is not harder to see because it is known that a person might eat four or five times the amount of another person. And so he would say it is not allowed to go to one of my famous teachers who was not allowed to go to this because this is harder. So my point is I give you two examples that are clear cut. Uncertainty what is inside the box and it's a closed and shut and padlock I'm not going to tell you what's inside though. And by the way, this is done in America when the storage is right when the storage is

are locked up right for and then the contract expires. So the person says unknown, I don't know what it is. I'll sell it to whatever is inside for $100 this is not it is not allowed for any Muslim to get involved in this because this is exactly where I saw you throw a stone at random you don't know what's going to happen. This exactly we are not allowed. This is law that is far harsher. That is a

lot and a lot of you see it I gave the example anything you buy, you do not examine it to the molecular level, you don't examine if you have an idea, you buy a pound of grapes, you do not examine every single grape, you understand overall the quality is whatever XYZ quality and you purchase accordingly. Obviously, in the middle there are there are middle examples which are going to neglect for our for our talk today. Now, in the insurance transaction, what are you getting back for what you pay? Do you know,

this is why the entire transaction really is a type of extreme hot. And this is well known. And that's why the vast majority of scholars, like 99% of the scholars, when they talk about insurance, they say the number one issue insurance technically cannot be allowed is

you are paying the premiums every single month, and it is possible for 15 2030 years, you never need anything. And it is possible the next month, something happens and the insurance company pays you half a million a million dollars, right. And this if this isn't on what is a lot of so the shediac does not allow her. And insurance is an example of clear cut. And I gave you two examples of this that you can pay for many, many years and you get nothing. And even the second month once you insure May Allah protect all of us, if somebody shows their house, the next month, something happens, the insurance company is going to pay and the guy only paid $50 are $100. And the insurance company has

to pay whatever half a million what it might be. So this is the number one reason and this is, in my humble opinion very clear. There's no going around this. Number two, they said what is number two why interest insurance is not allowed. Number two, they said interest interest. And the issue of rubber being inherent in insurance is something that is also self evident. The issue of interest being a part of insurance is self evident. Why? Because all of you should know this. When it comes to

buying and selling currencies and money. The Sharia has a whole different set of laws than when it comes to buying and selling merchandise and goods. Okay, when it comes to exchanging money, if it is the same currency, it must be the same amount and spot trade on time. If I give you $10, you're allowed to give me if I give you a $10 bill, you're allowed to give me a single one dollars, no problem, right. And it generally must be done on the spot. Or if it is deferred, we know it will be exact, I can give you $10 today say oh, I have the change at home, and it'll be 1111 I'm going to give you you cannot charge me $11 or $9 for giving you a $10 bill, right. So generally speaking, two

conditions must be met if is the same currency. And that is spot trade. Spot trade doesn't mean I collect the 10 right then and there it means we know you will give me 10 in single and the same amount. If it is a different currency, then the only condition is you know the amount spot trade. But it doesn't have to be the same amount. So I have British pounds, you're not going to give me 50 pounds for $50, you will give a different amount. But when I hand you when the transaction happens, I know how much I'm gonna get back. Right? So this is spot trade. Now, when it comes to insurance, is it the same currency or different currency? actually doesn't really matter too because the point

is, it is the same but doesn't really matter. Because when I give you the money, what am I going to get back money? Do I know how much money? No. And this is the essence of interest. This is the essence of interest exchanging money

at different rates, or unknown rates of a different currency. This is the essence of interest, I cannot give you 50 5050 then something happens Oh, give me a million. Give me half a million. I am purchasing money for money. Right? And this is the second reason why our scholars say that insurance. Conceptually speaking, conceptually speaking, goes against the laws of the Sharia. And technically, for those that are advanced students, both types of Riba are common in an insurance clause because there's a rebuttal for the river and the SIOP label follow means that the quantities of the same currency have to be the same. They've been a main spot means at the same time, in an

insurance contract, neither condition is met. There's two types of Riba by the way in Islam, but it will follow a ribbon this year, maybe at a later time we'll have this more advanced class but for those who know their fifth understand that insurance is guilty of both types of Reba, Reba have different amount and Riba of time because you're not getting it at the same time. Okay, so there's ribbon followed and ribbon under sia. So as I said, there's four primary reasons the fourth one will neglect the first two we have done and that is there is and there is Reba, the third one came out

gambling. And I say there's an element to this. At the same time, if this were the only issue, it's not the strongest. And so an argument can be made against because you can make an argument that investing in stocks is a type of gambling, meaning you don't know the result. And in and of itself, generally speaking, stocks are held that I haven't answered that question. And maybe one later time, we will answer this question, what makes the stock harder to invest in, but my humble opinion, and Allah knows best, the issue of timeout or gambling is not the strongest point to negate the validity of insurance, it is one point we can add to the list. But the first two are open shut, as they say,

and that is her and Reba. And this is something that even the most basic student who begins to study Islamic economics can understand. Now, the issue of gambling, as I said, you understand that you put a small amount and your goal is to get a large amount back, right. So you just like when you buy a $10 lottery ticket, and your goal is you win the lottery. And so they say this is came out? And I say, Okay, I see where you're coming from, but don't we all do the same for stocks? I mean, don't we all wish we had invested in Yahoo back in 1999. For those of you that aren't talking about right, if we only had $10,000 back then then we wouldn't have to be employed and colossae. So that's also a

type of but so that's not how I'm so therefore, I say with my utmost respect, payment is not the main issue that we can use single handedly. By the way, these four are the main then there's 567, that other that other people do. And in my humble opinion, the first two are enough to be set. Now, the first word that conceptually speaking, insurances, how long is the standard fatwa given by the vast majority of scholars, and the first item to ever that we know of to ever issue a factor about interest was one of the greatest aroma of the Hanafi madhhab in Aberdeen, and hanafy, who died in 1784. And who wrote the famous book, rather modar, which is a very famous standard hanafy textbook,

and he died 1784. So it's very interesting. So Paolo, while in while insurance is just coming out in England, and even Aberdeen was where you should know where he lived. Where did he live Damascus? And he's in Damascus. And he Subhanallah I don't know how actually really would be interested in how did he know about what is interesting, what not, but he wrote a detailed fatwa that that went over the contract of insurance. And he laid the skeletal foundations for all of these later, odema in 1784, Subhan, Allah that He wrote this, and pretty much after him, it simply became the standard and everybody's looking at it, even if insurance is evolving, but the same issue of Mr. Mr. Carter and

Reba exist, and that is why I do not know of any Council of filk scholars in the globe, and there are over a dozen of such councils. I do not know of any such council that has said the concept of interest is Hillel. And I can quote you the Council of senior scholars of Saudi Arabia, the Kuwaiti Council, the scholars, the US Council of Scholars. You have the Robert maschmeyer Islami in the in the lobby, you have the the Council of Scholars of Islamic finance. And admittedly the solid Islamic there is a large scholarly body of financial experts, the largest, such one in the world. And they have semi regular meetings, and they issue fatwas. These are the most knowledgeable specialists in

Islamic finance in the world. And they come together once in a while, and they issue fatwas. And essentially, all of these councils that are well known and famous have said, the concept of insurance, conceptually, it is not a law, as it exists today. Again, remember, there's an alternative, which is doesn't exist in the modern world, and they say this is maybe headed but that doesn't exist in the model. Now, did anybody disagree? Yes, as usual, it's not 100%. We have

a handful of names that in the realm of modern Islamic law, are known to be how should we put this to have views that are atypical, their knowledge is respected, their reputation is established, everybody admires them, but they're known to be a typical in their fatwas. And some of these people have been at the forefront. In fact, they're the only ones that have been allowing

insurance as a concept, and perhaps the most famous amongst them is Dr. Mustapha, Zarqa and also Dr. Abdul Wahab hilife these are two global roula who were world famous in the 70s 80s 90s. They both passed away in the 90s or early two, or the 90s I think, but these were like you know, they were on the same panels a shift called Bob and others that those to that level and everybody else

admired and respected them, they have established a reputation. And they have fatawa that are known to be outside of what is called, you know the the norm. And that doesn't make it wrong. By the way, if you listen to my last lectures or it doesn't make you wrong, I'm just saying, These are people that are typically outside the box and Dr. Mustapha Sarkar was one of the first to write two treaties about insurance being permissible. And this became like the standard for later scholars who wanted to make it permissible. And he argues that there is no harm we said, number one is, he goes that there is no harm. Why? He says, because the companies are doing doing their due diligence, and

making sure that the risk is overall assessed and minimized. And they said, As for this claim, that there is no tangible benefit. No, there is tangible benefit. There is recognizable benefits, you get something tangible from insurance, what do you get from insurance guys?

Very good. Michelle hit the nail on the head, you get peace of mind. This was most of us have this point. When you have insurance, you get peace of mind. That is something tangible, it's something that is you can know it. I mean, tangible means you know, it's there is something that is that is there. And he gave the example of a security guard.

Security Guard, we have our security guard here, right? We have or maybe if there's a caravan, you hire a security convoy for the caravan, you know, when the banks have? I don't know if they still have it? Or is there something in the movies? Do they still deliver money to the banks? I don't know. But if they deliver money to the banks, those those armored cars always have security? Okay, you're paying the security guard and amount of money? Do you know how much work you will need to do? Is there going to be a robbery that he has to protect from or not? Do you know that? No, if there's no robbery, if nothing happens, that's what we hope for hamdulillah our security guard just walks

and enjoys and martial law says that, um, to all of us, right? May Allah protect all of us and all of the Muslims. But if something were to happen, right, what responsibility we will be on the security guard is much more than for the rest of the year, and he's not going to get an extra pay raise for that, is it? It's an unknown, and Dr. Mustapha zelicah, said, this is the same as as what? insurance right and he has other, you know, issues as well. Now.

Other other you know, other scholars said that? Well, no, the horror is in the individual transaction one on one, you're looking at the company, and you're saying there's no huddle, but individually, one on one there is and then you know, other points as well that they responded to this now, therefore, that having been said, before I move on to the next half, that was half of my response. So we have summarized now what is insurance, the history of insurance, the fact that Muslim LMR, generally speaking, have prohibited and the reasons of their prohibition. And the fact of the matter is, statistically speaking, you can count the people who have said insurance as a

concept is headed on the fingers of one hand, the big names that have said insurance has held that you can count on the fingers of one hand, everybody else in the oma from all the different, you know, groups of fit of Islam and even the mainstream theological groups within Sunni Islam. They've all looked at this, and they've said that the concept of insurance goes against goes against the shady. That having been said, we now move on to the more pertinent issue. See, here is where many good Muslims May Allah increase them in their goodness, and they're a man, they fall into an error. And they don't understand that the *ty Yes, abstract why something might be forbidden or how

wrong but at times, the application in a particular context becomes permissible, because of the context. This is something that every atom worth his salt knows this is something well known. Fear is not something that is purely abstract and theoretical.

And the average, loving, caring, zealous Muslim doesn't understand this. And the average Muslim wants to know the abstract, and then things call us that is it. And when somebody comes along and says, Well, yes, that is the abstract, but in this situation, perhaps it is permissible. Sometimes our Muslim feels Oh, this scholar has betrayed the Sharia. He doesn't know anything, because I know that to be out on. Ironically, pretty much everyone says insurance is haram. And pretty much everyone says, in some cases it becomes permissible because of the context. Do you understand and there is no ternopil there's no contradiction. There's no contradiction, because this is what filk

really is. This is the reality of film. To take the theoretical abstract is easy, even the beginning students under

graduate in shediac can do, but to then apply this is the difference between a medical student and a doctor of 30 years, right? The medical student reads the textbook and doesn't understand, hey, the case in front of me has a slight change. The textbook says it, I must do it. Whereas the doctor of 30 years knows Hold on a sec, that's the general rule. But the case in front of me because of my experience because of this, and that it is an exceptional scenario, right. And this is where a lot of times end we find the the tension happening between the the neophytes and the new younger students who have knowledge versus those that are well respected. And that's why the same counsels

that that insurance is out on without exception in every photo, they then come back and they say, however, in such and such circumstances, it might be permissible for those people, you see that you see the point here, right. And so we now get back to applying this theoretical to applying the abstract to, to what, to the reality, to the real situation. And

this is where we say that pretty much all the fifth counsels that look at the situation of Muslims in minority lands, they all give concessions in some scenarios for those minority Muslims. You see, there is no contradiction here at all. And that's what I need to impress upon you. And there are specific fifth councils that are based in the West. And there are counselors in the East that are aware of what is happening in the West. And that is why when you look at their fatawa, which I have looked at all of them say, theoretically, conceptually, insurance is not allowed. However, in certain circumstances, it becomes permissible because of the overriding need, because of the

necessity because of the hardships that would be faced otherwise. And so for example, I'm Joe, which is the American Muslim jurists Association, which is based here in America, or the European Council for fatwa, which I love Amgen, I love our fifth council that I'm a part of, but the fifth field Council of Europe, frankly speaking, it scholars are of a more global nature and more well known, right? jokes aside, I sit on the fifth Council in North America, Chicago Law, we used to sit on the fifth Council of Europe, there's a world of a difference, okay. There is no comparison with my utmost respect to all of us here. The fifth Council of Europe is the senior most Council in my

humble opinion that deals with Western affairs, because the caliber of people who sit on it are at a totally different global level. That's because there are more Muslims in Europe, by the way, and that's because they bid in Europe longer, we are still new in America, and things are different. For us, our quantity is less, we've only been here in large numbers since the 80s. Whereas in Europe, they've been since post World War Two. So things are different, the concentration is higher. So we are giving excuses for ourselves. But I am telling you, as somebody who sits on the fifth Council of North America, I personally respect the European Council immensely because of the caliber of people

on it. And actually, that was in England two days ago, and I met with the president of the council to discuss certain issues of faith as well. So the point being the European Council of

the European Council of federal and research has given a detailed fatwa about insurance and they concluded conceptually, insurance is not allowed. And then in its ruling, which if you want to look up and I encourage you to do your own research, ruling number 25 slash seven DASH six it rule that according to the vast majority of scholars of Islam, insurance is not in accordance with the principles of Islamic law. But in light of the goals of the shediac. And the situation of Muslims in Europe, then there are situations where it would be permissible to take insurance. And the fatwa mentions three things in particular, as examples, not as a comprehensive list as examples where the

European Council, which at the time had shelf use of Aqaba as its head, and a galaxy of Roma, if you know their names first on molvi and Abdullah Jew there, and I'll cut out a die and so many of the great aroma that are some of them are still alive, some of them have passed away, because this photo was given around 70 to 80 years ago. So it's relatively recent, but still Yanni two decades ago, they said in three circumstances definitely should be allowed. Number one, they said, ensuring property insurance for the massage and Islamic schools because the loss is too great to replicate. Having insurance against these structures that are the bastions of Islam. May Allah protect all over

massage wouldwould we do some crazy guy comes and does something. How are we going to the loss that would happen? It is simply too much realistically for a community to cope with. Given that Bonura

Then the European Union council said, to take insurance to protect these structures is something that is permissible. Number two, they said,

ensuring one's private properties or cars or businesses from natural disasters like fires or earthquakes. Number three, they said health insurance where the cost is prohibitive to take reasonable health measures. I think this was a dig in America actually, because you're a martial law has all social health care's You know, that's a joke. But anyway, the thought was clear, where health insurance is prohibitively expensive, which is essentially America number one on the list, then health insurance becomes a need and a necessity, and it becomes permissible to take. And if in, they concluded, and they said, As for life insurance, the committee has paused discussion because of

its controversy. And they will look at it in a later for Tour, which they did. And I'm going to come back to okay. And

in another photo, the images the same European Council, photo number 30 dash 232 dash eight, they said that, so they discussed life insurance in that photo, they said that life insurance was not allowed. And this is the position of the vast majority of the council's and they did not make an exception for Western lands. So, the European Council convened 1718 years ago, discussed insurance and allowed specific insurance for Western people. And they said life insurance problematic, let's discuss it a few years. They did discuss it a few years later. And they issued a fatwa that life insurance doesn't meet the criteria for hardship for low data. And so they do not allow it, but they

made an exception. And they said, only if the company offers it without you signing on. So it's something that you're not paying for, or, or you're not opting into it or you're not, it's not something that you are, you know, directly getting separately, it's coming from the company, in this case, you are not getting it as a third party entity. Or they said, if there is a type of insurance policy that the government does, which is totally separate, when the government gets involved, right, then it's really not the insurance that we understand. It's the type of taxation. So they give an exception, you know, Social Security, whatever, that doesn't come under this as all. So

therefore, to conclude this issue, and then have one issue that and we're done to conclude this issue, it is very clear, and Allah knows best that theoretically speaking, the concept of insurance has major problems. And it goes against a number of fundamental tenants of the goals of Islamic Sharia of Islamic finance. Nonetheless, in circumstances where life becomes unreasonably difficult, where it is not possible to live a regular life, or where the government forces you to get insurance. And Amgen also has a photo about car insurance and health insurance in America. And I'm just based here in America, and the fit counselor as well, that I'm about as a photo, all of these

councils have said that car insurance is something that is mandatory, and you cannot live in this land without a car. So you are allowed to get it. But I'm just says you should get the minimal amount possible. This is just fun. And health insurance is prohibitively expensive health in this country. And so it is not possible for an average person to live in this land, you know, without having health insurance. And so they said it is it is something that is permissible to get. And the Fed will also says By the way, which I found interesting, I'm just fed too. I also said that the Muslim should also push for social reform to get they didn't say obama care, but essentially, get it

something that is halal. Because once the government takes charge, then it's clearly headed right? When everybody the government is allowed to give you anything at once from your taxes, right? So the building roads schools are free. And if the health is free, then there's no issue. And frankly, speaking from an Islamic standpoint is much better, as well. So if you want to become of that party simply because of this issue, then we have I'm just what would that semi just anyway, don't quote me on that. Okay. final issue that is related to this insurance. Obviously, the question comes about working in insurance companies, working in insurance companies, and the European Council and Amgen,

have looked into this issue and they've come to very similar conclusions essentially to the same conclusion, and the European Council in 2008 10 years ago released a fatwa. That said, the base ruling or the default is that it is not allowed to work in commercial insurance companies. However, exceptional circumstances can be granted and they gave some examples primarily if a person is not able to find a job. So rather than remain homeless or without a job, this is the Torah but they said enough

just said the same thing, if a person is not able to find a job, and that's the only job they have, they cannot

accept it as status quo. And they have to actively work to find employment in another field, and not like this employment, not be happy with it, and know that this is a temporary situation until Allah subhanaw taala finds a way out for them until they find an alternative source, they're allowed to work in this in this environment. And that is because again, we're talking about something that the entire industry is how long if the entire industry is how long Muslims cannot be employed by that industry, we cannot be employed by Budweiser can we we cannot be employed doesn't matter if you're an accountant for Budweiser, we cannot be employed by generally speaking directly by a bank. Because

we don't believe in that enterprise of banking. Similarly, insurance, the entire enterprise is based upon this. So the federal from these councils is that should be avoided. Now, last point here, and then I'm done. And I know there's a gazillion questions, because each one has specific scenarios, and Charlotte will try to answer them as I walk up, but I can't open the floor now, or else we will never finish tonight. The last question that I'm disappointed I'm done. There is an exception, though, for working for insurance or banks. And that is if you are working for a third party company, and you're a consultant and and your third party company assigns you to these industries

for a period of time

and you're not able to get out of it. Sometimes you're able to choose your job, then you should choose it if you're not able to get out of it. In this case, your employer is Hillel. And your job and expertise is Hillel. Your employer has contracted you to something that theoretically is how long it's not good. But the federal has come that Okay, in this case, you can't really pick and choose every single thing. So because your employer and you as a Hillel contract, if they put you to an insurance company for six months or whatnot, if you can avoid it fine. If not, then you are forgiven because your employer is not the insurance agency. It is the third party and with that

inshallah we come to the conclusion of today's photo and we'll come back and show our love to Allah for our next session zachman lockers that are more equal to La Habra catch.

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