Tom Facchine – Riyadh al-Saliheen and Women’s Q&A #22

Tom Facchine
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AI: Summary ©

The history of criminal laws in Islamic is discussed, including the use of hadiths and deadly punishments. The importance of proving actions and finding evidence is emphasized, as well as the need for strong legal grounds to enforce criminal behavior. The conversation also touches on issues such as premeditated births and custody, and the need for cultural expectations to avoid undue burden on anyone. The conversation ends with a mention of a book and a follow-up meeting.

AI: Summary ©

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			Bismillah R Rahman r Rahim Al hamdu Lillahi Rabbil Alameen wa salatu salam ala MBA almost serene.
The being of equivalents in a Muhammad Ali here for Salah was Curtis new Allahumma alumna we may
have farriner on Downton Abbey
		
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			was even though not
		
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			everybody, hope everybody's doing well.
		
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			Let's get right into it. Last time, we had quite a long Hadith.
		
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			And it was packed full with lessons, things to discuss.
		
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			Today, we're going to have a much shorter Hadith, but it's going to touch on some really deep, hot
button issues that need unpacking.
		
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			And so we will do what we can.
		
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			We're in the chapter of repentance of Toba,
		
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			the 10th Hadith, in this particular chapter,
		
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			the 22nd Hadith overall.
		
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			The translation that we've been reading from has this hadith been on the authority of Abu jayed
Imran even Sainath was I reported that a woman from Johanna Johanna is in the outskirts of Medina,
in the mountains near FIFRA.
		
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			Came to the messenger of allah sallallahu alayhi wa salam who was pregnant as a result of
fornication. In this case, the better translation is adultery. There is a distinction between
fornication and adultery. In Islamic law, fornication is done when someone has no sexual experience.
And adultery is done.
		
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			After somebody has sexual experience, either through a marriage or otherwise.
		
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			So she was pregnant as a result of adultery.
		
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			She said to the Prophet, O Messenger of Allah, I have broken a head had is a limit set by Allah
subhanaw taala.
		
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			So carry out the punishment on me.
		
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			The Prophet salallahu Salam
		
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			summoned her guardian and said, treat her well. When she gives birth. Bring her back to me.
		
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			He did that and the prophets, Allah Lovelace and I'm commanded that her garment be tied tightly
around her and then he commanded that she be stoned. Then he prayed over He led her Janaza prayer.
		
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			I'm off Rhodiola Han, who said to him, do you pray over her messenger of Allah when she committed
adultery? He replied, she repented with such a repentance, that if it were to be divided out among
70 of the people of Medina, it would be enough for all of them. Can you think of anything better
than her offering herself to Allah, the mighty and majestic, this hadith is originally in Sahih
Muslim, there's actually several
		
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			variants of this hadith that give you different details of the story. In other versions of this
hadith give a little bit more of a backstory that she came as soon as she was, as soon as she had
committed adultery to the prophesy setup. And she said, I've done this thing, and he sent her away.
		
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			And then she came back
		
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			and asked for the same thing said I want the punishment.
		
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			I'm pregnant.
		
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			And then the promise I said, I'm said, Go away, until you deliver.
		
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			And then she came back after the child was delivered, and said, I want the punishment.
		
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			And the promise I sort of turned her away again, and said go away, until you've weaned the child.
		
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			And then after she when the child, she came back yet again,
		
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			and demanded of the Prophet Muhammad SAW I said I'm Punisher
		
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			to which at that point, he obliged her and like they performed the punishment on her.
		
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			So we need to talk
		
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			about what these punishments are, what their role is, in Islamic law have some misconceptions. How
do we reconcile
		
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			their existence, their performance, with the Mercy of Allah? This, this hadith is in the chapter of
repentance. Some people who would be non Muslims would read this with heart, they Oh my god, like,
what is this that you guys believe in? What is it that you're practicing? And it has to be.
		
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			And it has to be situated
		
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			within our
		
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			intellectual and spiritual tradition, as opposed to how it might be heard, in other faith
traditions,
		
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			especially the one that's dominant in the place that we live. So first of all, looking at the
phenomenon of had punishments in general had, as we said, means a limit that Allah has set. And what
it refers to in criminal law is one of the handful of sins that has a judicial punishment attached
to it.
		
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			Right. There's only, as I said, a handful of them, adultery,
		
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			murder, burglary,
		
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			banditry, and public intoxication, our cover
		
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			most if not all of them.
		
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			What we have to realize when we talk about
		
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			criminal law,
		
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			in the context of Islamic law,
		
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			is that when we have a discussion in this space, meaning we're living the United States of America,
		
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			we have to
		
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			or we are overcoming
		
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			or responding to what is the Christian historical experience. Most people if you try to tell them
about these things, or if they're aware of these things, or if they respond to these things in a
disapproving or horrified or surprised way, they are coming from a particularly Christian historical
experience, regardless of their commitments of faith, even if they're not a Christian, by devotion,
they are a Christian culturally, most of the time. And so there are certain associations that such
people are going to have with some aspects of things that are in our tradition, due to their own
historical experience.
		
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			In the historical Christian tradition, or historical experience, a judicial punishment is often
associated with damnation, and heresy.
		
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			Christianity does not have
		
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			substantive criminal law. It doesn't have a system of punishments, it doesn't have court procedures
that are on the books. And so all of these things were left up to the Empires or the political
entities of the times. And it also meant that injustice, injustice
		
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			was rampant, and that punishments was often arbitrary, and often personally, or politically
motivated.
		
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			We see probably the two most emblematic examples of
		
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			criminal law within the history of the church are the Salem witch trials.
		
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			And the trial of Galileo and other scientists or astronomers like him.
		
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			We have in these two sorts of events, they become typify they've become symbols.
		
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			They have a life that's much larger
		
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			than the immediate historical circumstance.
		
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			When they occurred,
		
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			we see in the Salem witch trials, right when there were a bunch of teenage girls in Salem,
Massachusetts, in the pre United States, American history of European colonization
		
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			that there were accusations thrown out.
		
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			That so Ansel was a witch, and then a lot of this thing became a hysteria where people were using
this thing to settle personal vendettas
		
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			much like countries around the world today use the terrorism label that the United States kicked off
in 2001
		
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			And
		
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			whoever you're against now becomes a terrorist. And that label enables you to do whatever you want
to punish them or to settle the score. Such was the label of which in Massachusetts in the 1600s.
		
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			And often was the label of heretic throughout the history of the Christian church.
		
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			Such as Galileo's trial, anybody who was sought to have put forth an idea that contradicted the
official standing of the church, whether it was on something that had to do with scripture are not
was deemed a heretic, and they weren't punished as such heretics, and they were this is the key
point they were understood as being dispatched to hellfire. Right, when they were burning witches at
the stake in Massachusetts, they understood them to be
		
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			fulfilling God's role
		
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			in taking part in like their first round of eternal punishment. Right and the same with the
heretics. Those who were burned at the stake or were otherwise tortured and killed were understood
in the same light
		
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			to be you know, this person is damn their heart is sealed that we know where they're going to go and
we're going to dispatch them that their
		
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			Express
		
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			so you have to realize that when Christians and people are Oh, yeah, Crusades are another good
example data, mashallah, I'm glad you brought that up. I was reading just the other night about the
Fourth Crusade, especially during the Fourth Crusade.
		
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			Constantinople now Istanbul was sacked and ransacked and atrocities happened. Now this was the
center of the Orthodox world, who sacked Constantinople the first time, it was the it was the
Franks. It was the Romans.
		
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			You know, those who came from it was the Crusaders essentially.
		
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			And they committed unspeakable atrocities
		
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			in the name of whatever their project was, but we can tell from the cooperation that some of the
crusading parties enlisted from disaffected Muslim groups, and even the wrath that they had, and the
opportunistic murder and theft and pillage of other Christians lands. Right? This is something that
was a ruse, it was a, the fact that they seem to be you know, reclaiming the Holy Land was a
convenient cover for other sort of objectives and goals. But that's also a very good example. So we
have maybe this tripartite, or trifecta of historical experience, you come from the Christian world.
And you're basically primed to see any,
		
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			you know, either expression of criminal law, punishing people for sin,
		
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			or otherwise exacting any sort of violence against anybody for religious or religious reasons, you
are primed to see that through the lens of oppression,
		
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			and arbitrariness and unfairness. Due to this historical experience. If we think about things on an
abstract level, we know that we have to be careful with the lessons that we take from that
historical experience, someone or some culture or some regions historical experience is particular.
And you have to be careful when you're extending it to the outside world. The possibility
		
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			that law might be unfair
		
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			doesn't mean that there can be no law.
		
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			Similarly, the possibility of a just law being unfairly enforced, doesn't mean that there can be no
enforcement of law.
		
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			These are things that are problems, but their
		
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			particular problems that have remedies to them. You can't as we say, in English, throw out the baby
with the bathwater.
		
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			There's also something which is particularly kind of colonial about the assumption that your
experience has to be everyone else's experience. Right? Muslims deal with this when talking about
Christian we're talking to Christians, Christians, often kind of see Muslims as like their little
brother, who's kind of like coming along.
		
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			Christianity is now enlightened, because it had the Reformation. And Muslims are going through their
reformation and they'll grow up one day and they'll stop being so extreme and stop being so dogmatic
		
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			This is kind of a line, right? It's patronizing, but more than patronizing, it assumes that my
experience of the world
		
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			is what everybody else is experiencing, and will experience. And so if I'm on a timeline, I'm just
further along, and you're necessarily marching behind me.
		
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			Right? This is a huge problem, to assume that my historical experience is the same as everybody
else's historical experience.
		
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			And so we find today we have not only Muslims, such as ourselves, that live in this context,
		
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			we can literally it's palpable, these sorts of feelings, this suspicion of criminal law, with
religion behind it, this suspicion of a religion or a faith that has courts in that, you know, has
sort of verdicts against this person or that person, religiously motivated law.
		
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			And the judiciary, there's a suspicion that we can actually taste in the air from living in the
space. But even Muslims who live abroad, in nominally Muslim spaces,
		
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			often can kind of drink in this historical experience, as well through movies, through books through
all sorts of things. It's pervasive, especially if many of the movies and books and TV shows that
you are consuming are from the West, they're going to have Western sensibilities.
		
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			So all that being said, now, we have to come back to look at our own tradition,
		
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			criminal law within the Islamic context, the dimensions of Islamic fluid punishments, what is is
there any commonality between this sort of baggage that Christian historical experiences carrying
with it? What are the points of commonality? What are the points of departure and difference? Where
is it fair to compare and whereas no comparison adequate.
		
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			The one of the first aspects of Islamic legal punishments, such as stoning, is to provide a
deterrent. A law says this explicitly, and sort of Mati that NiCad. And mean Allah says, as a
deterrent from Allah.
		
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			Some legal theorists have said that one of the features of modern law as opposed to pre modern law
is that in modern law, sometimes there's not laws on the books, just to be on the books to scare
people. Right? We assume that if a law, a law is in place, that it has to be implemented, and it has
to catch everybody who is violating it. Whereas many legal scholars, they say that in many pre
modern systems of law, there are plenty of laws that are on the books that are hardly enforceable or
barely enforceable,
		
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			for the sole purpose of deterring, and scaring and making somebody think twice, before they partake
in a certain action.
		
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			The perspective that would kind of retort against this logic of deterrence is what I call the
legalization party, right? People who often who argue for things on the scope of legalization,
		
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			we often hear people talking about prohibition, United States of America actually banned the
commercial sale, not the private consumption, but the commercial sale of alcohol for 10 years, about
100 years ago. And this in our culture has become kind of a symbol for why this sort of moralizing
and religiously guided legislation can't work.
		
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			And it's kind of become a symbol of this failed kind of
		
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			pious ism.
		
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			Upon further or closer inspection, however, we see that there's kind of a mistake being made,
		
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			that the assumption is that such a deterrent or such a lot. It's not necessarily to prevent every
single case of transgression from happening, but it is to reduce the harm.
		
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			And so now, even some historians are coming around to admitting that prohibition, according to the
goals of the movement was actually a success. It reduced alcohol consumption in the United States by
a third,
		
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			which is extremely significant given the narrowness and the
		
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			relatively small time nature of the prohibition movement.
		
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			So when it comes to having gruesome punishments on the books, we can't make the assault
		
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			mission that Allah wants us to identify and discover and find and capture and punish every single
person who is transgressing that law.
		
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			That is not accurate. Allah has placed these things here and made the punishments yes, indeed
gruesome and graphic in order to scare people
		
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			to make them reconsider to make them think twice before engaging in that activity. And he has said
so directly in the Quran. This point is even further reinforced if we look into procedural law
		
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			within Islamic criminal law.
		
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			There's a saying within, for amongst, I should say Islamic legal scholars that the shittiest stops
at your doorstep.
		
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			Procedurally, evidence that is obtained through spying and through invasion of privacy is not
admissible evidence. In an Islamic court, there's a famous story where I'm up when he was the
Khalifa. He heard some
		
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			carousing, going on some merrymaking going on behind someone's wall. He actually climbed the wall,
and he found that there was a man there sitting, drinking wine, having some musicians play for him.
And Omar was very upset.
		
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			And he started yelling at the guy. And the guy retorted, what are you even doing here?
		
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			You should have never climbed my wall in the first place. And then Omar kind of realized that he had
gotten carried away and he left. He had no right to be there. And he could not fairly pursue that
case, because it would have been inadmissible evidence.
		
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			The show yeah, is not
		
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			trying to police.
		
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			When we talk about criminal law, it's not trying to police your private life, so much as it is
trying to establish a base level of public order, and public piety.
		
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			And we can notice this, if we look at the different punishments that exist, the harsher punishments
have to do with things that are much more public in nature,
		
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			such as banditry, and murder. And things that are
		
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			not necessarily noticeable, such as intoxication, and even fornication
		
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			are very, very, very hard, if not impossible to even prove in court.
		
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			There's a reason why the highest threshold of evidence is required for these sorts of cases like in
the Hadith, when it comes to fornication and adultery.
		
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			The highest number of witnesses, the most graphic, direct witnessing is required.
		
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			Literally, you have to observe penetration, you can't just see someone walk into someone's houses,
hear certain sounds, whatever. That's not admissible in an Islamic court when it comes to proving
these sorts of cases. Why? Because these laws are mostly meant to be determined.
		
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			And not to catch everybody.
		
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			This is further enforced by the fact that the Prophet SAW law is set up and it's more emphasized
than other versions of the Hadith turned away.
		
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			She approached him at first after she committed adultery, he turned away. He said, Get out of here.
He didn't pursue. He didn't send someone to check in on her. At every stage, he didn't say, okay,
all right. Now I set my calendar to this date, and she should have given birth by now and go see how
she's doing. Let's you know, hold her accountable. No, every single time he was giving her an out,
he was giving her an opportunity to get away with it.
		
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			And every single time she rejected
		
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			one
		
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			of our final points about Islamic law and this is a big thing, in distinction to
		
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			how Islamic law is perceived. And how Christian legal sensibility was often enacted historically, is
that there is no such thing as extra judicial
		
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			justice, vigilante justice, in Islamic society, everything has to be pursued through the courts and
no one except an official court sanctioned by the state has any power to enforce anything.
		
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			So what we see here, and this is the point of the Hadith when it comes to our Omar's comment and his
assumption
		
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			that what she did on the outside her action, her sin that reflected a hypocrisy or a lack of faith
that was in her inside
		
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			and not necessarily just elapse, and the prophets Allah salaam correction
		
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			and testifies to the sincerity of her repentance.
		
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			We see that the primary function
		
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			of these who dude of these criminal punishments that are very, very hard to prove, without a
confession, if not impossible, especially adultery and fornication, many scholars and jurists
actually remark in their books, that there has never been, to their knowledge, a case of someone
being convicted rightfully, for adultery or fornication, except by their own confession.
		
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			That's because the nature of this confession
		
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			is and the nature of this punishment is that it is an expiation
		
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			it is a punishment that is a redemption.
		
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			It is not in the sense of the witch trials or the the heretics burning at the stake, it is not
		
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			a prelude to a punishment in the afterlife. No, it is front loading your difficulty and your
punishment so that you do not have to experience punishment in the afterlife. And the Prophet SAW I
sometimes comments reflect this completely.
		
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			Such logic is lost upon people who don't believe in an afterlife in the first place. Which is why
the platitude or the common conventional wisdom that it doesn't matter what you believe,
		
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			as long as you're a nice person, as long as you're a good person is a very, very thin concept and
doesn't really bear out when we test it and push the idea.
		
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			Because somebody who believes in an afterlife
		
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			has a fundamentally different orientation to the world than someone who does not believe in an
afterlife. Someone who does not believe in an afterlife literally believes that this is all that we
have.
		
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			This life and so life becomes the most sacred thing, anything that removes or ends or shortens or
threatens that life. Whether it's self sacrifice sometimes, or turning yourself in or experiencing a
punishment like this is incomprehensible.
		
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			Because to wish for your own extinction
		
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			is kind of the worst possible thing that could happen.
		
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			Whereas the person who believes in an afterlife, they realized that this is just a taste
		
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			a small segment of our lives. And therefore this small segment of our lives can easily be bartered
or traded, or
		
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			otherwise compromised for the sake of our longer eternal life.
		
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			We can put up with things in this life because we know that something else was coming afterwards.
		
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			Even when it goes against our material interests like it does for this woman in this hobby.
		
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			She wants to live she wants to see the life of her child.
		
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			She wants to see that child grow up of course, these are natural good things.
		
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			But she also knows that the only way to avoid punishment in the afterlife is to experience it in
this life. And so she turns herself in seeking that through repentance and she achieves it according
to the prophets Eliza
		
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			does anyone have any questions comments concerns
		
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			about any of that?
		
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			If your Toba is sincere
		
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			I think this this happened last week
		
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			where it happens to it what
		
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			if there's a sin
		
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			that was affecting somebody else's right
		
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			if you were not able to make it right.
		
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			Even if you repented expressed regret but it was of the nature where you couldn't repay it. You
couldn't make it right.
		
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			That a law might take from your good deeds in order to compensate for that in the afterlife that's
possible.
		
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			But for this particular woman and this nature
		
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			of sin, whereas more about yourself.
		
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			Her punishment is over for all intents and purposes
		
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			even the major centers,
		
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			the Prophet saw a setup. He said,
		
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			inertia Attili I hate about it, I mean automatic, said my intercession with Allah is for the major
centers of my ummah.
		
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			And the majority position in the with among the scholars of sunnah is that anybody with
		
00:30:40 --> 00:30:43
			a small amount of faith,
		
00:30:45 --> 00:30:49
			even if they experienced some punishment in the afterlife, they will be taken away.
		
00:30:50 --> 00:30:56
			There'll be taken out of that punishment, and they will enter into agenda after having spent some
time in punishment.
		
00:31:06 --> 00:31:16
			From a devout Christian perspective, Jesus asked those without sin to cast the first stone, I guess
the prostitute against that's a really good question, Dana.
		
00:31:17 --> 00:31:18
			Well,
		
00:31:19 --> 00:31:24
			good, this is awesome. This is really good. So it comes back to the goal of the city
		
00:31:25 --> 00:31:28
			and the external and the internal and the public and the private.
		
00:31:29 --> 00:31:36
			Right? So if we are saying cast, the first stone meaning blame,
		
00:31:38 --> 00:31:39
			we agree with that statement.
		
00:31:41 --> 00:31:47
			As in, we assume, where that person is going to end up in the afterlife. We agree with that
statement. Don't judge that person.
		
00:31:50 --> 00:31:52
			Don't cast that figurative stone.
		
00:31:55 --> 00:32:00
			Because all of us have sinned and nobody can tell who Allah is going to forgive and who Allah is not
going to forgive
		
00:32:02 --> 00:32:03
			us for public order.
		
00:32:06 --> 00:32:12
			Then this is something that has to have punishments, it would never be. Let's take it to its logical
conclusion.
		
00:32:13 --> 00:32:17
			In our society right now, forget Islamic law, forget Christian law.
		
00:32:19 --> 00:32:22
			If we weren't allowed to punish anyone for a crime
		
00:32:25 --> 00:32:28
			except if the person doing the punishing was perfect.
		
00:32:30 --> 00:32:32
			What would that lead to on a societal level?
		
00:32:35 --> 00:32:38
			That would lead to the entire destruction of justice.
		
00:32:40 --> 00:32:41
			And the removal of mercy.
		
00:32:43 --> 00:32:44
			Chaos.
		
00:32:46 --> 00:32:47
			Anarchy
		
00:32:48 --> 00:32:49
			in the bad sense.
		
00:32:54 --> 00:32:54
			Right.
		
00:32:56 --> 00:33:07
			So there's an internal dimension and external dimension is shitty. Yeah, it's not going to Yeah, I
know. I'm glad that you caught that. That the Sharia is not trying to police your your insight.
		
00:33:09 --> 00:33:22
			It agrees with that statement. If we're saying don't judge that person, don't pretend and the
prophesy said I've got angry with people who acted like they knew where that person was going to end
up.
		
00:33:25 --> 00:33:28
			This is the same as the conversation with ARMA.
		
00:33:30 --> 00:33:34
			Right or assumes he knows where that person is going to end up prophesy sources known another.
		
00:33:36 --> 00:33:41
			But when it comes to establishing public order, there needs to be consequences.
		
00:33:42 --> 00:33:43
			People who kill
		
00:33:45 --> 00:33:45
			people who *
		
00:33:46 --> 00:33:48
			people who burglarize?
		
00:33:50 --> 00:34:00
			Right. Are we going to say let the person who's sinless cast the first stone but the person who's
sinless take him to court? No, this is the rights of people.
		
00:34:03 --> 00:34:06
			And so in order for justice, you know, the purpose is that security?
		
00:34:08 --> 00:34:23
			You know, this is this is why I mean, Christianity doesn't really have law to speak of, you know, it
doesn't have a legal system. It doesn't have a legal tradition. And so when you hear things from the
Christian perspective, you have to take them
		
00:34:25 --> 00:34:26
			as a
		
00:34:27 --> 00:34:37
			private individual guidance, right? If you take that, quote, as a private sort of reprimand of your
own internal assumptions completely correct.
		
00:34:38 --> 00:34:45
			If you take it as something to organize society around and achieve security and prosperity,
absolutely not.
		
00:34:48 --> 00:34:54
			And from their perspective, why would Jesus then flip over the table the tables with the money
changers in the temple?
		
00:34:57 --> 00:35:00
			Right was Jesus not concerned about justice?
		
00:35:00 --> 00:35:00
			said Oh,
		
00:35:02 --> 00:35:03
			no, of course he was concerned with justice.
		
00:35:05 --> 00:35:29
			Yes, exactly. Very big difference, which is exactly. And I'm glad that you mentioned that because
it's getting to our whole emotional imagery. All of these things are connected our associations with
this, what's the imagery that pops into our head when we think about these sorts of things? Yeah,
that's exactly what we think. That's what the secular ex Christian mind thinks, when they think
about
		
00:35:30 --> 00:35:38
			punishing the adulterer. They think about this woman that's screaming against her will being drugged
out of her home by some big dudes with beards. And then they're just you know.
		
00:35:42 --> 00:35:49
			And there's a big market for any sort of news that comes out of the Muslim world that resembles that
in any sort of way. This is not the stomach law.
		
00:35:52 --> 00:36:02
			Right? Very different story for somebody who's begging for it. The promise is that on turns or away,
turns her away, turns her away. She's begging for what's the promise the lady said I'm supposed to
do?
		
00:36:05 --> 00:36:06
			Good.
		
00:36:10 --> 00:36:16
			This is a very rich, rich topic and subject. So if you have any other reflections and questions,
please put them in the chat box.
		
00:36:17 --> 00:36:23
			Just for the last few minutes, I'm going to mention some things about we're really close to the end
of
		
00:36:24 --> 00:36:30
			the end of our book of marriage, and Islamic law, which means that coming up next is divorce. We're
good.
		
00:36:32 --> 00:36:35
			So here's a popular issue.
		
00:36:37 --> 00:36:47
			Yeah, exactly. What and which is exactly what the problem is. I said, I'm said in that particular
narration, he says, That's why her repentance would have been good for 70 people.
		
00:36:49 --> 00:36:53
			She turned herself over to Allah, is there no more sincere belief than that?
		
00:36:55 --> 00:37:00
			So the prophesy someone was correcting our own assumption about what was going on in her heart.
		
00:37:03 --> 00:37:04
			Major
		
00:37:05 --> 00:37:08
			is a wife obligated to serve her husband?
		
00:37:14 --> 00:37:17
			The majority opinion is no she's not obligated to serve her husband.
		
00:37:18 --> 00:37:48
			Okay, I say a caveat here. Say don't don't turn me into a bad guy. I don't want to be hearing from
your husbands. Okay. Most scholars say that these things are the like, the final word is the
cultural expectation. Right? So every culture, every societal class has certain expectations. They
bring up for example, the situation if there's an aristocrat, right, a woman who's never in her life
than expected to, like lift a finger to you know, cook, or to whatever,
		
00:37:49 --> 00:38:00
			then can she then get married and be expected to cook for her husband? They say, No, she's not
obligated to do that at all. If the husband wants to serve it, he has to hire a servant.
		
00:38:02 --> 00:38:18
			The wife is not a servant. Right? That's basically the point that they're trying to make. The
default assumption is that she's not required to serve Him. But there might be cultural expectations
of gender roles. And that's fine. Islam is not against gender roles. It's not against cultural
		
00:38:20 --> 00:38:24
			iterations on those gender roles, as long as they're fair, and as long as they don't
		
00:38:26 --> 00:38:47
			cause undue burden on anyone and as long as they do not contradict any other part of the city. And
above that there is room for accent. In marriage, there's always room for if set, whatever you do is
set with a pure heart seeking Allah's pleasure alone, then that's going to get you into paradise.
		
00:38:48 --> 00:38:49
			Talked about that.
		
00:38:51 --> 00:38:52
			Talked about that.
		
00:38:54 --> 00:38:55
			Talked about that?
		
00:38:57 --> 00:38:58
			Yep.
		
00:39:00 --> 00:39:06
			Yeah, we talked about that. Okay, custody, custody, custody, custody, who gets custody should
		
00:39:09 --> 00:39:10
			should a couple divorce.
		
00:39:15 --> 00:39:18
			The final word on this issue is that
		
00:39:19 --> 00:39:21
			Islamic law is based off of reason.
		
00:39:22 --> 00:39:27
			And the purpose of custody is for what is most beneficial to the child.
		
00:39:29 --> 00:39:39
			So, whatever the situation is, if there is clearly one parent who's more beneficial to the child and
the other than the child goes with a parent, that's more beneficial to them.
		
00:39:40 --> 00:39:43
			Okay. And that's all scholars say that.
		
00:39:45 --> 00:39:50
			The issue is, what if they're equal? Right? What if both parents are equal?
		
00:39:51 --> 00:39:59
			Or, you know, in the same neighborhood we're not talking about one's an addict. We're not talking
about one's an abuser, like one like you know, both of them loving
		
00:40:00 --> 00:40:01
			stable parents, you know,
		
00:40:03 --> 00:40:04
			who gets custody
		
00:40:09 --> 00:40:10
			there is consensus
		
00:40:12 --> 00:40:19
			that for the first period until about 10 years old, the woman has more of a right to custody to her
children
		
00:40:20 --> 00:40:22
			as long as she doesn't remarry
		
00:40:24 --> 00:40:29
			if she does not remarry, and she has rights to custody of her children until they're around 10 years
old.
		
00:40:31 --> 00:40:36
			What happens after that is a disagreement between the different schools of law.
		
00:40:41 --> 00:40:47
			As for Abu Hanifa, and Matic so they differentiate between Is it a girl? Is it a boy, if we're
looking at if it's a girl,
		
00:40:49 --> 00:40:57
			Abu Hanifa and Malik, they say that once she reaches the age of 10, then the woman is also
		
00:40:58 --> 00:41:01
			more entitled to custody than the man.
		
00:41:02 --> 00:41:06
			Even if men says no, it's the opposite. Daddy's Girl,
		
00:41:07 --> 00:41:21
			the father is going to have her best interest in heart and so the father is more deserving again
this is all else being equal. And even the Shafi gave the child a choice. After 10 He says that they
should choose themselves
		
00:41:22 --> 00:41:24
			as for a young boy,
		
00:41:25 --> 00:41:26
			when he reaches 10
		
00:41:28 --> 00:41:31
			Who should he go to All else being equal?
		
00:41:35 --> 00:41:39
			Then a Shafi and Achmed, so athma joins a Shafi and saying that he gets to choose
		
00:41:44 --> 00:41:46
			as for I will, I will Hanifa and Malik.
		
00:41:47 --> 00:41:55
			They say no, he does not get to choose. Rather, he goes to the mother, just like the girl
		
00:42:01 --> 00:42:03
			that's not applicable, that's not applicable.
		
00:42:10 --> 00:42:11
			Okay, this is a good one.
		
00:42:14 --> 00:42:19
			There's a good one. And then there's a kind of obscure one. And that I think is the end of yep,
that's the end of the whole, the whole book. So
		
00:42:20 --> 00:42:21
			is a woman
		
00:42:23 --> 00:42:25
			allowed to stipulate
		
00:42:28 --> 00:42:31
			a condition in her contract?
		
00:42:32 --> 00:42:36
			That's extra to what is required in the city.
		
00:42:41 --> 00:42:45
			So we have some different scenarios where this can happen.
		
00:42:51 --> 00:43:15
			Like, in the first scenario, let's say a woman stipulates a condition in her contract that's not
valid that goes against the city. Okay? Like for example, she says that, okay, she has to be paid
her her dowry in, you know, alcohol. Right? Then, in this scenario, that condition is not valid.
It's not.
		
00:43:16 --> 00:43:44
			It's, it's completely ignored. But the contract is still valid, right? So this is where this is the
importance of what we're getting into. The contract is valid, the marriage is valid, but the
condition is not valid. So you ignore it. It says if the condition isn't there, say I want to be
paid my dowry in pepperoni No, sorry, you're gonna be go you're gonna get the the going rate
instead. But the the marriage is still valid.
		
00:43:48 --> 00:43:53
			What about if the condition the extra condition
		
00:43:54 --> 00:43:56
			does not violate the Sharia?
		
00:43:59 --> 00:44:01
			Let's say for example.
		
00:44:05 --> 00:44:12
			Let's say for example, that a woman's puts a condition to her contract that if her husband wants to
marry a second wife
		
00:44:15 --> 00:44:17
			that the contract is automatically dissolved.
		
00:44:20 --> 00:44:21
			Is that a valid
		
00:44:23 --> 00:44:32
			condition? Is it honored? Is that condition honored in the contract? Or is it just ignored, like the
previous situation?
		
00:44:35 --> 00:44:46
			Even F min along with Azeri and even shipping, they said yes, this is allowed and you have to honor
that condition
		
00:44:47 --> 00:44:48
			100%
		
00:44:50 --> 00:44:52
			whereas the remainder three
		
00:44:54 --> 00:44:59
			Islamic schools or schools of law, I will Hanifa Madigan a Shafi they say no
		
00:45:00 --> 00:45:13
			This sort of condition is not a valid condition, it doesn't affect the validity of the contract at
all. But the husband is not required to follow it.
		
00:45:15 --> 00:45:18
			And so that's a very good plug to become a humbly
		
00:45:20 --> 00:45:23
			if you're looking for a school of law,
		
00:45:24 --> 00:45:26
			and that I think is
		
00:45:29 --> 00:45:35
			there's one more issue. That's kind of interesting, but it's a little bit out there. And that pretty
much concludes.
		
00:45:36 --> 00:45:45
			concludes the book on marriage. Anybody Any questions, comments, concerns? Whether related to that
stuff or the Hadith that we tackled today?
		
00:45:50 --> 00:46:21
			Good. Yeah. Why is custody an issue that's within marriage and divorce? As we saw with previous
issues, it's all a triangle, right? So other than that, the scholars, they try to compartmentalize
everything neatly. But in reality, in reality, it's impossible to separate everything. So sometimes
scholars will actually repeat issues. So if there's one that's like between the two, he'll mention
it first in the, in the book of marriage, then he's going to mention it again in the board in the
book of divorce.
		
00:46:28 --> 00:46:39
			Why is Oh, good, good, good. Okay, I understand, why is remarriage? Why does remarriage affect a
woman's custody? Let's put, let's give an example. So
		
00:46:41 --> 00:46:54
			man and woman divorce, the woman is more entitled to those children, all else being equal until she
remarries. What if she remarries? What's the attitude of her new husband?
		
00:46:55 --> 00:46:58
			Now her first children's stepfather going to be to her children?
		
00:46:59 --> 00:47:04
			Are they going to? Is he going to be as concerned with what's best for them as their father? Or
		
00:47:06 --> 00:47:09
			does abuse happen with lots of stepfathers?
		
00:47:10 --> 00:47:13
			It's become a it's become a stereotype that's become a trope.
		
00:47:15 --> 00:47:17
			Does that mean that it always happens? No.
		
00:47:18 --> 00:47:20
			Why is there
		
00:47:21 --> 00:47:34
			she will have their best interest but who usually has a little bit more authority in a marriage? Why
are Muslim women not allowed to marry Christian men? But why are Muslim men allowed to marry
Christian women?
		
00:47:38 --> 00:47:45
			Because average world average Okay, you go from Africa, Asia, Europe, America, South America,
wherever
		
00:47:46 --> 00:47:47
			that
		
00:47:49 --> 00:47:51
			men are a little bit forceful, more forceful.
		
00:47:52 --> 00:47:55
			Men sometimes can be a little bit more
		
00:47:56 --> 00:48:01
			stubborn, sometimes even violent. Right. And so
		
00:48:03 --> 00:48:16
			that affects family dynamics. There's a recognition of this in the city, even if it's not 100% All
the time thing. I think it's fair to say that it is a tendency that it's probabilistic.
		
00:48:17 --> 00:48:20
			And so, similarly to how
		
00:48:22 --> 00:48:24
			the city recognizes that
		
00:48:26 --> 00:48:29
			a man is a little let's put it this way. Men are more obstinate.
		
00:48:31 --> 00:48:37
			Okay, so a man who's a Muslim, he marries a woman who's a Christian men are more obstinate.
		
00:48:39 --> 00:48:48
			Right? He's less likely to ever even think about changing his religion. Like, I'm doing my thing
like whatever. Okay?
		
00:48:51 --> 00:48:53
			Whereas the, the opposite isn't always true.
		
00:48:54 --> 00:49:10
			It's a very, very similar dynamic here. If a woman comes with her children into a new marriage, and
the man is the one that kind of, you know, can throw his weight around a little bit more can kind of
set the tone he's expected to provide an regretfully that's a vulnerability.
		
00:49:12 --> 00:49:20
			He expected to provide for everybody and we wish that with stepfather's there would be no strings
attached, no favoritism, nothing like that. But
		
00:49:21 --> 00:49:31
			how often is it the case? Yes, it is. So at that point, again, and this is all based on case by case
scenario, but the if all else is equal.
		
00:49:32 --> 00:49:47
			If all else is equal, the assumption is that the biological father is going to be in more of a
position to look after the interests of his children. Even if he's he has remarried.
		
00:49:49 --> 00:49:51
			Then a woman who is now
		
00:49:52 --> 00:49:59
			usually world average dependent on her new husband, for provision and etc, etc.
		
00:50:00 --> 00:50:00
			etc.
		
00:50:01 --> 00:50:08
			Right. So a SonicWALL is trying to take care of everybody. Worst case scenario, I hope that makes
sense.
		
00:50:11 --> 00:50:18
			What if the husband income is not enough to support the family? Yes, this we touched on this a
little bit
		
00:50:19 --> 00:50:24
			of couple of classes ago. And it is grounds for
		
00:50:26 --> 00:51:03
			a divorce, it's grounds for an annulment. It's grounds for dissolving the marriage contract.
However, however, what is enough, right has to be defined, right? If we're talking like, bare
necessities, okay, like you don't have proper clothing, you don't have proper nutrition. Yes, that
is if he's failing in that regard, then that is grounds by which myself or a Mufti or somebody else
can actually intervene and dissolve a marriage contract.
		
00:51:04 --> 00:51:27
			If a man is not providing in that sense, if it's about a second car, a vacation home, you know,
things like this that aren't necessity that that's a, that's a bit different of a scenario. And
obviously, I bring up these examples, because these are kind of extremes. There's a spectrum.
There's a spectrum. Right?
		
00:51:28 --> 00:51:29
			So
		
00:51:31 --> 00:51:33
			that might not answer your question, but
		
00:51:35 --> 00:51:51
			the husband is responsible, but he's also responsible for what is expected culturally in that
according to that place, right? Because places have different living expenses. It's way cheaper to
live here than in New York City. Okay. Um, according to
		
00:51:52 --> 00:52:04
			what's going on current events, we have a pandemic, there's how many millions of people on
unemployment right now, right? We can't just wait by and wait for the next pandemic. So it'd be
like, Oh, I see a sucker I'm out. Right?
		
00:52:05 --> 00:52:12
			We have to take that into consideration, we have to take into consideration what is culturally
culturally expected.
		
00:52:13 --> 00:52:48
			Right? This is why Allah subhanaw taala refers to it in the Koran has been in our roof, with what
has no meaning with what is well known among people, where people, if you would describe your
situation to somebody else from your culture, living in the same place as you and they will be like,
Oh, my God, right? That's a problem. That's a problem. But if you describe the situation to somebody
similar culture is you same place as you and they're like, Yeah, that's kind of the situation that
everybody's in, then that's not that's not grounds for for divorce.
		
00:52:50 --> 00:52:53
			Any other questions, comments, concerns?
		
00:52:55 --> 00:52:59
			Next up is is the book of divorce. So we'll get into some of this stuff again.
		
00:53:00 --> 00:53:01
			And some more stuff.
		
00:53:08 --> 00:53:22
			And as always, anybody wants to send me questions, WhatsApp, email, Facebook, whatever, please do.
And I will get to them in this time period of Shala. Thank you all for your engagement as always,
Hamdulillah.
		
00:53:24 --> 00:53:29
			Always interesting for me as well. Okay, I'll see you next time in sha Allah. Wa Salaam Alaikum wa
Rahmatullah.