Proof Jesus did not die for you

The Deen Show

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Watch as this former Atheist who was trying very hard to be a Christian Dr Laurence Brown disproves this whole idea that Jesus was a lamb of God who died for your sins.

Episode Transcript

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Bismillah Alhamdulillah Salaam Alaikum peace be unto you. Thank you for tuning in to another episode of the deen show. And today in the studio, back with us again, Dr. Lawrence Brown.

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You can go to the deen show calm to read about him, he has his own private section there is a former atheist, who was trying very hard to be a Christian, who accepted Islam. And by now you know, Islam simply means to acquire that piece that we're all looking for, from the owner piece to one guy, submitting yourself entirely to him. That's what Islam means. And he has accepted Islam. And he also has a DD doctrine, divinity PhD in religious studies. And he's here to talk about another topic. Out of the several that we've covered, we've covered and proven that Jesus peace be upon him who's Dear beloved to our hearts, was not God never claimed to be God wasn't the Son of God, none of these

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things and you can go back to his section and watch some of these previous shows. But in today's show, we're going to be talking about the topic of Jesus now.

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Being the Lamb of God, what does that actually mean? Was he led to the slaughter? Did God go ahead and sacrifice him for the sins of the world? Is this fact or fiction? We're going to clear the confusion on this week's show? with Dr. Lawrence Brown, sit tight, don't go nowhere.

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Hey, what's up, buddy?

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Salaam Alaikum.

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I had to go in there for a minute. For a minute, we give those greetings of peace. Because we want peace, don't we? Do we just want peace? We just keep saying peace. I haven't heard people mentioned the word peace so much as the Muslims do. Every time we greet each other. We're like peace be unto you. When we see each other, when we're leaving each other peace be unto you. And when we say is peace, peace, peace, but there's always war, and people attributing terrorism to Islam. And they, you know, they seem like opposites. Would you comment on this? Before we start into our topic?

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Actually, well, it's interesting that you should mention that because while you were talking right now, I was thinking about when I got married. Yeah. Because when I got married, I was talking with another brother about just the process of getting married and, you know, having love in the marriage and so on. And he, it was just interesting to me. He just kind of sat back and thought for a minute and said, You know,

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I think I would rather have peace in the marriage than to have love in the marriage.

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I thought that was really interesting. At first, I was just thinking, What are you talking about, but then, when I thought about it, I realized, you know, you can have you can have love in your marriage, but it can be a pretty stormy relationship. Yeah, you know, and if you don't have peace in the household, if you don't have peace with your wife, it's going to destroy the marriage, it's going to destroy the love.

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But if you have peace, if you have peace with you and your wife, or, you know, for the ladies, between the wife and the husband, the love grows on top of that, and you end up with both.

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And it's the same way with a lot of things. You know, in Western society, everything we look at is reminding us of happiness. You know, you look at a billboard, everybody on the Billboard looks like they're having the time of their lives. They might just be advertising a bottle of water, but they're making it look like you know, I mean, they're just ecstatic about this bottle of water. Yeah.

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And it's the same way with every advertisement, newspapers, radios, television, everything is projecting happiness. As if our goal in life is just to be perpetually happy. But that's not very realistic.

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And the more you fight for that goal, the more elusive it is.

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You know, we are we are trying to be just perpetually happy. And you can never achieve that. But what you can achieve is you can achieve a peace with yourself with

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those around you at peace with your Creator. Now that's something you can achieve. And once you've achieved that the happiness will come with it. We got to get our priorities straight.

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Because the foundation has to be strong before you can build on it. some good, some good advice, definitely, definitely. And so we're breaking the ice a little bit. And we're getting it now to our main topic. Now people again can go to your own private section at the Dean's show.com, to see the previous top of your conversion story why you accepted the way of life all the prophets of God, including Jesus peace be upon them,

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Islam. Now, at that area, you we also have the topics of you proving beyond the shadow of a doubt that Jesus peace be upon him was not the only begotten Son of God, that he didn't have a divine status that he wasn't God, he wasn't the Son of God, you prove this in the top 10, the top five the top 10 reasons. And these were some very exciting shows, and I really encourage everyone to go watch those. But in this week's show, we're going to be talking about the Lamb of God. Let's start What does this mean the Lamb of God that Jesus was the land? Well, first of all, I'm probably not the best person to ask that question. Ask Christians, what do they mean? Lamb of God, and see what they

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say? Yeah, because like many terms in in Christianity, most people just have trouble with it. Yeah. What does Lamb of God mean? What is the Holy Spirit? You know, what, what is the Comforter, what? etcetera, etcetera, define define the Holy Spirit for me, you know, define it. Most people have trouble with these concepts. So what we're dealing with now, is we are talking about in this episode in previous episodes, the tenets of faith, that upon which the Christians and the Muslims differ. So we've talked about Jesus Christ being the only the garden and the Son of God, the fact that none of these three doctrines is tenable. You know, he's not the only is not the dotnet is not the Son of

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God. We've talked about the Trinity. We've talked about the alleged divinity of Jesus Christ in my book, misguided, you'll see that I address 16 points. Okay, so we're just touching on basically half of those, when we come to the concept of the Lamb of God, where this comes from is this comes from john 129. Where allegedly it is said, you know, Behold the Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world. And this is john the baptist, identifying Jesus Christ as the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. Well, the problem with this is that the word that is translated to lamb Talia, actually, that correct translation from the Aramaic Italia is servant, not lamb. So the

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correct translation would be behold the servant of God. Now there's a huge difference between servant of God and lamb of God.

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But to try to make it fit within previous scriptural harmonies. The translation was adapted to Lamb of God to make it consistent with other scripture. This is not this is not honest, this is not forthcoming. This is not. This is not what we should be doing with revelation we should be we should be, you know, clear, obvious and faithful to the Scripture. And where are we to do that the correct translation is behold the servant of God. Now, one point I would make about this is that it said that in john 129, john the baptist knows who Jesus Christ was, he says, Behold, the Lamb of God, this guy's lamb we got right here. Hey, everybody, Lamb of God, right here. We got him right here.

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Why then in Matthew 11, three, does john the baptist say,

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Are you the coming one? Or do we wait for another?

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Okay, now, you can't have it both ways. Either john the baptist knew who he was or didn't know who he was. Okay, the Christian claim is he knew who he was. He identified him as the Lamb of God and said the Lamb of God, it takes away the sins of the world. And we're pointing out, okay, if you're going to say that then why is that in Matthew 11? Three.

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You know, he says to Jesus Christ, are you the coming one, or do we look for another? In other words, he doesn't really know who he is. Okay. So you have two big problems here. One is mistranslation, and the other is that it's clear that whatever john the baptist is saying about him, he doesn't. He's not certain. He's not certain if Jesus Christ is the foretold one to begin with.

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Hold your place right there, we're gonna take a quick break, we'll be right back, sit tight,

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whatever Allah.

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Islam has tolerance and mercy and compassion, to know that Allah, you know, will forgive you, as long as you do what you need to do as long as you turn back to him. Islam is a system of mercy and compassion. And it is for the best benefit of all of the people that's around it Muslim and non Muslim.

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Back here on a deep show with Dr. Lawrence Brown, please continue on talking about the Lamb of God, short continuation, the only other thing that I would add is that we find the concept of Jesus being the Lamb of God only in the Gospel of john. So if you're going to weigh the Gospels, you have to say the gospel of john is the only one that gives anything that can be kind of manipulated to have this concept. Matthew, Mark, Luke, don't even mention it. So in essence, you kind of have three votes against one and even the one vote. The passage I already discussed in john is extremely weak because of the mistranslation. Now we know as Muslims once who follow that we have total and complete

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submission to the one guy, the same guy that Jesus prayed to, that Abraham prayed to the One God who created the universe and everything in it. He created us in original goodness, with a fresh clean page from the start. So we don't believe that we're stained that we have a stigma attached to us when we're born. But some people believe in this, this original sin, and this somehow ties into the lamb thing. What do you got to say about this? Actually, the original sin ties not only into the laminates, but it ties into all of Christianity, because if there is no Original Sin, then what is the purpose of atonement? What's the need for atonement? What's the need for the atoning sacrifice

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of Jesus Christ? If there is no original sin? So this is a very, very critical doctrine is their original sin? Is there not original sin? Now in Ezekiel 1820, we are told the Son shall not bear the sins of the Father, the wickedness, the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. Okay. It clearly states in Ezekiel 1820, that sins are not inherited. Okay? And yet people say, Okay, well, that's Ezekiel. That's Old Testament. We're Christian, we follow the New Testament is equal. That's Old Testament. Okay, it's Old Testament, no argument there. But you know what? It's not older than Adam.

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It's not older than Adam. The concept of original sin is that a dates from who it is from Adam, the sin, the sin of Adam was inherited to all of mankind. If Original Sin were a valid concept, none of the prophets throughout time would have talked about it anywhere, any way, any time.

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And yet, you find the ztl, saying, The Son shall not bear the sins of the Father, the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself in modern slang in modern English Look, how would you translate this, you know, for the people that you know, kind of this old English? How would you translate this?

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I mean, the translation is clear, you cannot inherit since you cannot. So Finn is not inherited. I mean, you would look at a child, and you'd look at the child and you'd say, That child is sinless, who has ever looked at a baby picked up newborn baby and said, haha, well, they just look so evil. You know, I mean, never, it never happens. Who looks at a child who looks at a child, they just come on, come on coming here, sort of like, sort of like Jesus Christ. Yeah. When he said, In Matthew 1914, he said, let the children come unto me and do not forbid them. Why? Why? in his words, according to the Bible, for of such is the kingdom of heaven. Speaking of the children, yeah. Now,

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if we have original sin upon us, if we have original sin upon us, if children have original sin upon them, how is he saying, Let the little children come on to me, and do not forbid them? For us, such as the kingdom of heaven. So So if they have Original Sin on them, you know, four of such would not be the kingdom of heaven. Yeah, kind of like an attorney, you know, saying, you know, my client is as guilty as a newborn child.

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So, you know, you you're responsible for yourself, basically, I'm responsible for mine. What my great great great grandfather did if he did a crime, you can't come lock me up for it. That's, I mean, this is common sense. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So now

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So anything else you want to add on the Not only is it common sense, but the point I'm making is not only is it common sense, but it's contrary to Scripture. Okay? All right. So anything else on the atonement that you want to original sin that you want to all of these things we can expand upon more, but you know, for the purposes of our discussion, discussion today, let's move on. Okay. Now we have also this title to it. atonement, you hear this word also meant, right? I mean, as we said, if there's no Original Sin, there's no need for atonement and all of the doctrines that surround this are under question, the doctrine of the crucifixion and so on. We as Muslims believe that that

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Jesus Christ was not crucified, but so it was made to appear to the people. Okay, but that actually, our Creator raised Jesus up. We do believe that he will come back close to the Day of Judgment, he will vanquish the the Antichrist and he will usher in an age of justice. But this is another story. In in speaking of atonement, directly the issue of atonement, the concept of atonement comes from two Timothy two, eight, okay. And in this verse, it's this is taken from the letter of Paul, right? And it stated, remember, Paul is stating that, remember that Jesus Christ was raised from the dead, according to my gospel?

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What is he saying? He's saying, Paul is saying that it was according to His gospel, that Jesus Christ was raised from the dead. Where else do we find it?

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That's it. Now, point is, I mean, are you going to trust, Paul, with your salvation? When we know that? You know, Paul is the only one who wrote about the atonement, the doctrine of the atonement, come comes from Paul and yet Paul contradicted basically everything that Jesus Christ said and did and was. When Jesus Christ taught Old Testament law, Paul, negated it Jesus Christ taught accountability. Paul taught justification of faith, Jesus Christ taught that he was the son of man, Paul taught that he was the son of God, Jesus Christ taught, pray to God, Paul said, pray to Jesus, Jesus Christ taught that he was an ethnic Prophet, not sent, but to the lost sheep of Israel. Paul

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said that he was a universal Prophet, and on and on, and on. most powerful thing Jesus Christ taught, God is one here, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one, three times three times recorded in the Bible. And of course, from Pauline theology, we get the Trinity. What am I pointing out? I'm pointing out that, you know, you've got Paul and Jesus like this. No, you've got Paul and Jesus like this. Paul and James were like this, Paul and Peter, Paul and Barnabas, you not only had conflict between the teachings of Jesus Christ and Paul, okay, disparate teachings contradictory to one another. But you actually have the disciples of Jesus, the true disciples, were in open conflict

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with Paul, open conflict, and yet, and yet, and yet, people look at the epistles of Paul, and they find the things that they want to teach the atonement, and they grab ahold of that, and they say, okay, you know, we'll believe in the atonement from this guy, who everything else he has done, has contradicted Jesus. But we like this part. So we're gonna hold on to it. This is very, very, very selective, selective thinking. I mean, it's taking what you want.

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It's taking what you want, because you like it, rather than taking the reality. I mean, if you can picture now, if we can go and I just, I have a lot of questions on this, you know, for the layman, you know, he's not really into the Bible, but you get a lot of people who have a problem with this and people who are born into Christian family, you know, they want to do the right thing. Many people are getting, you know, fed up with the rat race of life, and they want to develop their spiritual side, they know there's a crater, this is something that's innate in all of us, but this whole concept, they're looking for something else, because this isn't fit, you know, so we give

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analogies, I'm just thinking, you know, you see, you can imagine, like, you know, a father's you know, let's say walking with his son, you know, and then all of a sudden he pushes his his son in front of a car and the Son, you know, said, you know, dad, dad, you know, what, you know, save save me, and then sorry, son, you know, this for the criminals that we got to let loose. I'm sacrificing you for all of them. I mean, you know, is this kind of what we can equate to where, you know, you know, where God is, you know, where the judge is letting letting letting the criminal go? or letting his son goes so the criminals can get can get let loose people

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Whoever you know, yeah, you know, I mean, there's some people who say you're thinking like a human being. Yeah, you're thinking like a human being, you're not thinking like God. Okay, well, how else are we supposed to think? Yeah, I mean, God gave us our minds to think in this way. Yeah. All right. It makes. I mean, it just makes sense that God gave us the tools to understand what makes sense. Yeah. And so, we understand that this doesn't make sense. Not at all. We understand that, you know, no son, you know, father would sacrifice his son for the forgiveness of other people for whom his son has no relation. Yeah. Okay. How does this relate to that? We all understand that. But, you

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know, I think what is going on is that the concept of the atonement is just such an attractive concept. Do whatever the heck you want. Okay, do anything you want to in this life? Go ahead and just have a blast. Forget the laws. Forget revelation. Forget accountability to God, forget prayer, forget the tenants. Do what ever you want. But just say, I believe before you die, and you'll be forgiven. convenient. Yeah. I mean, this is, this is just, this is taking a religion, because you like it. Not because it makes sense not because it's believable, not because it's true, seems really easy and convenient. And let's take a break. And we right back with more here on the gene shop. From

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a science major, when you look at the Bible says the earth has four corners,

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is wrong. The heavens if any Christian can point out a single unequivocal statement, a single unambiguous statement where Jesus camp is based on who says, say that I am God or wish to worship me. I'm a director of Christianity.

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Back here on the show with Dr. Lawrence Brown, dd doctor and divinity, PhD and religious study, one for being an atheist trying hard to be a Christian. Now you're a Muslim. Jesus was a Muslim, Abraham was a Muslim, we're not antichrist, are you dantec Christ.

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Someone might say, Hey, man, this guy's the Antichrist here, get away, turn the TV off. I'm for Christ. I am for everything that Christ stood for and taught.

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But the point I'm making is that what Jesus Christ did and said, and was are very different from how the church portrays them. We got a lot of points here, we're almost out of time. Factor fiction, tell me this is we're not making up things. People can go verify this, but we ask that people have an open heart open mind, tell me that Jesus peace be upon him or his companions, those that knew him the best that they ever did Jesus ever say, Listen, you have plenty of opportunities to say, listen, God sent me as His Son to die for your sins. And if you don't believe this, you go into the Hellfire is a serious business. Yeah. Did he ever say that? No, this is an interesting point. Of course, No,

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he didn't. And, and this is a, you know, this is, I think, a very powerful point. Because everything in the Bible suggests that is Al Islam, Jesus Christ, knew of His coming trial knew of the, you know, the difficulties, he would go through the trial, the persecution and the, you know, the impending execution or attempted executing him. Okay. So, you know, we find Jesus Christ tormented by what he foresees coming, okay. Now, you just have to assume that if he knew that he was going to be paying for the sins of mankind, in a couple of days, he was going to be crucified, he was going to be resurrected, and His Atonement would, would would wipe clean the slate of mankind, but he

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would have been telling this to His disciples, He would have been saying to them, Look, guys, don't worry, I'll be back in a couple of days. And you know, you can just relax, everything's going to be taken care of. Nowhere does he say that? You're dead. Instead, he continues and continues to, to build his followers to piety to righteousness, and to the duties of the faith, such as prayer, you know, nowhere Did he say, guys, you can relax. You can slack off a little bit. Couple days, everything's gonna be cool. I'm gonna I'm gonna take the burden from your shoulders. And his last dying words. This is just really quickly. Was it did it seem like not I mean, what they say his

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dying words, you know, when he was on the cross, what do you say, Eli? Russell back then he What does that mean? translate to? Yeah, but what were his last words because one Gospel says his last words where it is finished. And another gospel says his last words were antier hands I commend my spirit. So

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again, you can't have it both ways. Yeah. One says his last words were and the other says his last words. Were

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And then they give different stories. Okay, so how reliable is this? This is one of many, many, many, many contradictions in the Bible. Okay, so how do we now? Okay, well, now the passage you quoted, okay? I mean, the translation of that is, you know, is my Lord, my Lord, why have you forsaken me? It doesn't seem like someone who's ready to go out that actually is blasphemous. Yeah, okay, we as Muslims say, We don't believe that he said that. Yeah. You know, because that is blasphemous to say, My Lord, why have you forsaken me? Job? didn't say that. Abraham didn't say that. Yeah. Okay. You know, and you you have all of these prophets, I use job. I'm an Abraham's an

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excellent example. But I use job because he's the, you know, he's what we always hold up as the example of patience. He never said, My Lord, why have you forsaken me? And yet, we're going to say that Jesus, Jesus Christ's faith was so weak, that he's that he believed his Lord had forsaken him. This is blasphemy. Yeah, no, you know, no, right. You wouldn't expect that from any righteous person, much less from a prophet, much less from, you know, one of the greatest prophets of mankind, or Abraham, you could call me to sacrifice my son showing weakness. No, they were all ready, willing and able, obviously, he wasn't ready, willing, able, allegedly, if what they're saying doesn't make

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sense. It doesn't add up and you've disproved these things. Once again, you know, we love our brothers in humanity. And we just tried to relay the truth, have people open their hearts and minds, and the truth shall set you free is very simple. This is not anything hard to comprehend. Where did they go from here? Now, you might have, you know, really captured a lot of people's attention. But they hold on, hold on, we just got a minute left. How do they make sense of it all? What do you how do you replace it? It's okay. You want me to say that in a minute? Yeah. Bottom line is this. You look at the Bible, we have spent a bunch of sessions showing but showing why what you find in the

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Bible is not always the Word of God. It's a terrible thing to tear down a person's faith and not replace it. So let me just remind people of what they should believe in. We do believe as Muslims that the word of God is in the Bible. We don't believe that all of the Bible is the Word of God. But we do believe that within the Bible, you do find elements which do represent the Word of God. Among those are the repetitive teaching over and over again from the first commandment on to the teachings of Jesus that know your God is one God. God is one that that's a common thread throughout the teachings of all the prophets. Another common thread is that you have the chain of Revelation. Our

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creator sent down profits to bear revelation to the people as guidance to them. Every time that revelation became corrupted, God did what he sent another prophet. This is why Prophethood didn't stop with one man. This is why we didn't just have Abraham and that's it. We didn't have just Moses record the Old Testament and that's it. No, the Old Testament became corrupted and that is provable. Okay. And once that happened, what was necessary for Jesus Jesus Christ to be sent to what? To the lost sheep of Israel lost? Why? Because they lost their the purity of their revelation. Okay? So, believe in God is one God believe in the chain of Revelation, believe in the prophets who bore the

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message of our Creator to mankind. Included in that package is the Old Testament, Old Testament prediction of three prophets to follow. john the baptist, Jesus Christ are one and two, and that leaves one final prophet. We find in the New Testament, as we discussed previously, in a passage relating to allosterically toasts, Jesus Christ referencing another pair cleat another of whatever Jesus Christ was because he was described as a perfectly and that would be the third and final prophet. The job of everybody out there now is to consider in the light of what we have discussed, who might be that final prophet, who might what might be the revelation that he bore, we as Muslims

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accept that final prophet as Muhammad peace be upon him, the final revelation as the Holy Quran, that is the subject of another of my books, and hopefully, some more of these sessions. In the last few seconds. Thank you very much. We got a mighty royalty how people how can people get ahold you to read some of your articles and books, find my articles, find my books, find me on level truth.com [email protected] Thank you very much. Once again, thank you thanking me God Almighty lover, watch. Thank you. And if you'd like to say hello to Dr. Brown, if you'd like to pay him a visit level tube.com a scroll.com. Take it up with him. If there's some things you feel he missed, no

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problem.

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You can reach them there. And now that was it. It's very simple. It's logical. Yes, many people complaint claim to be profits. Many people can claim to be on the truth, but look at the teachings see if the evidence they present is testable.

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Islam has the testable evidence the verbatim Word of God the Quran is a living miracle to this day. Just have an open heart and open mind. Everything that it calls you to is good. It teaches original goodness. It doesn't teach Original Sin. It teaches pure monotheism, establishing a direct dialogue with the Create tour, the one who created everything in his universe, and it teaches you to develop yourself to be the best human being in the world to be just to be on justice, great morals great character, doesn't teach terrorism killing innocent men women. No, it does not have nothing to do with this. And if you'd like what we have to say here today, call the number on the screen one

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806 622 Learn More until next time, peace be unto you