The Deen Show – Jewish political Scientist Dr.Norman Finkelstein Exposing LIES of Zionist Tim Kennedy on Joe Rogan

			greetings of peace. My next guest, Dr. Professor Norman Finkelstein's for those that don't know who
he is, let's check out this clip. My late father was in Auschwitz, my late mother was in my time in
concentration camps. Every single member of my family on my father's side,
		

			on my father's side.
		

			My father was in Auschwitz concentration camp. My late mother was in my diamond concentration camp.
Every single member of my family on both sides was exterminated, both of my parents who are in the
Warsaw Ghetto Uprising. And it's it precisely and Exactly. Because of the lessons my parents taught
me and my two siblings, that I will not be silent when Israel conditions crimes against the
Palestinians. And I consider nothing more despicable than can use their suffering and their
martyrdom to try to justify the torture the brutalization the demise of demolition of homes, Israel
daily police against the Palestinians. So I refuse any longer to be intimidated or browbeating by
		

			the tears. If you had any heart you you wouldn't be crying for the Palestinians.
		

			Now Dr. Professor Norman Finkelstein in the year 2020, was named the fifth most influential
political scientists in the world. He is the author of many books that have been translated into 60
foreign editions he's devoted 40 years of his life to help people understand the facts as to what's
really going on in Palestine, through the lessons that he learned from his own mother and father who
has Jews themselves. Were in concentration camps now. I'm gonna go through five clips God willing,
and if he's up for it, we'll throw in a couple bonus clips on some of the main key actors who are
out there. And people who would probably be very, very terrified and scared to debate someone like
		

			Norman Finkelstein. So let's hear what they have to say, get his response to it. To save time, we're
gonna get right into the first clip from the Joe Rogan podcast here, one of his guests, and then
we'll bring on our esteemed professor Norman Finkelstein. Do you think um, Israel, your the
Palestinians in Gaza, if every one every one of the people in Gaza lay down the arms and stopped
attacking? What would I Israel do to you? It's good question. Nothing. They've tried it five
different times. They literally like stopped that Israel has never not one time in history initiated
any conflict, every single one of those things that you're pointing to is a retaliatory attack by a
		

			terrorist organization. But if that's if those if that was switched, were I Israel, you Hamas in
Gaza, I take all of my arms and all of my protection and I laid them down what would what would
Hamas do? They would kill every single one of us with to do this. It's what they're sworn to do.
That's that's their motto and the origin of their existence, all the way back to the Grand Mufti
traveling to Hitler to ask how do we solve the Jewish problem like you want to follow from the
Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas to the to the Muslim Brotherhood, all the way back to the grand mufti, the
Mujahideen and you see the origins of like, one thing, which is how do I solve the Jewish problem is
		

			to eradicate and kill them. That is what Hamas came from, not the Palestinians, not those poor
people stuck in Gaza. But in that problem, if all of Hamas just went away, we would have peace. If
they lay down their arms, and they stopped murdering innocent civilians and * women and killing
babies. You'd have peace. If the other side lay down their arms, they would all be murdered. This is
Professor Dr. Norman Finkelstein on the Dean show. How are you sir? I'm fine. Thank you for having
me on your show.
		

			Have you ever been on a Joe Rogan podcast on this? I think Joe Rogan when he watches this, we're
gonna go ahead and hopefully he'll have you on because he's one of the biggest podcasts out there.
And it'd be a shame if he doesn't have someone like yourself on so hopefully you get an invitation
from him soon, God willing. So what do you think Dr. Maha you've been? How's everything? I'm a
little tired. You've been going through a lot of the same things over and over. I watched your
debate recently. I just have one question before you get into this. The guy from New York it was in
person debate. And was he wearing what was on his shirt? Was he wearing a Theodore Herzl t shirt was
		

			a portrait of
		

			the founder. Okay, the person who's usually named
		

			Describe this the founder of modern Zionism.
		

			Yes. All right. So did you get a chance to listen to this clip? Listen to it. How? How would you
respond to this? It's hard to respond to statements like that, because there's so demented, so
divorced from reality. That one doesn't really know where to begin
		

			with Hamas goes back to the Mufti of Jerusalem Muslim Brotherhood.
		

			And it's just, it's just gibberish. So let's just look at the basic facts. Hamas participate in
democratic elections in 2006. Those elections were effectively imposed by the US government. For
your younger viewers whose memories don't go back to 2006. That's when George Bush Jr. was
president. And he was engaged in what was called at the time democracy promotion. And one of his
showcases of democracy promotion was the call for Palestinian elections in the occupied Palestinian
territories.
		

			Hamas reversed itself because earlier, it wouldn't participate in what it considered illegitimate
elections. It described the site to participate. And surprise to itself, it won the elections,
because the governing authority in the Palestinian occupied territories to Palestinian Authority
it's called was then and today until today remains very corrupt. So they were voted out of office,
the Palestinian Authority, and Hamas was voted into office.
		

			What happened? Well, elections, according to Jimmy Carter, former US president were completely
honest and fair.
		

			And immediately as these completely honest and fair elections, resulted in the Hamas victory is
real, followed by the EU and the US imposed these devastating economic sanctions on Gaza, which
grounds its economy to a halt.
		

			That's where so to speak, all the troubles began.
		

			And in the past 20 years,
		

			Israel has controlled
		

			who goes in who goes out of Gaza.
		

			It controls what goes in what goes out of Gaza.
		

			About half the population over the past 20 years, has suffered from what the international
humanitarian organizations call extreme food insecurity.
		

			About half the population of Gaza is unemployed. among youth, it's about 60%.
		

			It has the highest population, highest unemployment rate of any area in the world.
		

			Half the population of Gaza comprises children.
		

			So when you hear about Gaza, you have to bear in mind. Of those 2.3 million people living in Gaza,
half our children
		

			70% are refugees from the first Arab Israeli war, and the descendants of refugees.
		

			So were the young people who broke through the gates of Gaza on October 7,
		

			most of them on probably almost all of them had been born into that situation I just described.
		

			Now, if you take all the separate facts about Gaza, and you put them together, I didn't mention that
Gaza is among the most densely populated places on God's earth.
		

			I didn't mention the Gaza is only 25 miles long. It's shorter than the marathon and about five miles
wide.
		

			If you take all these facts together,
		

			the former British
		

			Prime Minister conservative British Prime Minister David Cameron, he described Gaza as an open air
prison
		

			a senior official in the Israel
		

			The government he was a senior official
		

			in 2004, and he continues to be a very influential figure in Israeli life, Israeli intelligence and
military life. His name is Chiara Gio are a Island ei L A N D. Era Island. Already in 2004, before
the blockade, before the blockade, he described Gaza as, quote, a huge concentration camp.
		

			So those folks who burst through the gates of Gaza on October 7,
		

			nearly all of them had been born into that huge concentration camp, or open air prison.
		

			So all of this
		

			stuff, this guy talks about if the people put down their arms, Hamas would kill them.
		

			He's just a flaming imbecile. And it would be kind of funny. To tell you the truth. We're not for
the fact that apart from what I just described, in Gaza,
		

			I left out that periodically every few years, usually on the order of two years.
		

			Every few years, Israel goes into Gaza, to what it calls mow the lawn, it's going to mow the lawn.
		

			So what is this lawn, I said there are 2000 2,300,000 people living in Gaza,
		

			a phone 1,100,000 blades of grass on this lawn 1,150,000 Right blades of grass, their children. So
when you hear mow the lawn, you have to bear in mind that it's the heads of children that are being
mowed.
		

			And I'm not going to go through the statistics now. It was 2008 to nine Operation Cast Lead.
		

			Hundreds of kids who were killed
		

			2012 Operation Pillar of the fence 2014 Operation Protective Edge 550 kids who are killed
		

			the current round since October 7.
		

			More children have been killed,
		

			marching or killed in three weeks.
		

			In every other war zone in the world,
		

			combined. Be it the year 2000 22,021 2022. If you take each of those years, and add up every child
killed in every war zone in the world,
		

			it would still not equal the number of children who have been killed in Gaza. In the past three
weeks, the number is about 4500. That number is going to soar now because among other things,
Israel's systematically targeting the medical infrastructure in Gaza. It's attacked several
hospitals already. And right now it's beginning so to speak. The final solution to Gaza because it's
attacking our Shifa Hospital, which is the biggest hospital in Gaza. It says if in the United
States, you would attack the mayo clinic or a Sloan Kettering hospital or Johns Hopkins. It's the
major hospital. And right now as we speak. They have begun the assault on Al Shifa Hospital. Now
		

			they claim that Hamas is command and control center is underneath Al Shifa Hospital. As a matter of
fact, they say that every time they launched one of their high tech
		

			massacres in Gaza. They said that in 2008, I talked about and in the book I wrote in the subject.
And let's say anybody has any
		

			any doubts in this subject? It's very easy way to resolve the question. There are 1000s of people in
Gaza. Excuse me, there are 1000s of people in our chief
		

			or hospital
		

			1000s Reporters can go in
		

			and just check whether Israel says we have detailed evidence that there is a bunker in Gaza, excuse
me a bunker and Al Shifa where there's a Hamas command and control, it's out there, and they send
out pictures of images of it could just go down and check. It's not difficult. But of course,
they're never going to allow inspections. Because right now, the main goal of Israel is very simple.
		

			It's using October 7 as the pretext with a final solution of the Gaza question. And the final
solution of the Gaza question has, I would say, two parts. One part is the other dissented the
pulverization, of all of God's in society, through reduce all of Gaza physically to rubble, it's so
far destroyed, about destroyed or damaged 45% Of all the civilian dwellings in Gaza.
		

			So about half the population will have no nowhere to go back to, in fact, they literally will not
know where to go back to, in the most literal sense, because the whole area is going to be reduced
to something between a garbage dump and the parking lot, it'll just be flat. So as you look for your
home, you're gonna be looking into a horizon, and you won't have a clue even where you live. You
know,
		

			that goes into that goes into the next clip that I want to show you. It discusses peace, and it
pushes out there, this concept that they keep rejecting p so I'm going to play two clips back to
back because it seemed like these talking points are put out there by the same individuals often how
have you addressed that are the ones
		

			the Palestinians attack the Palestinians that the Palestinians were offered a state in 1936 in the
Peel Commission, they rejected it. They were offered a state in 1947. The UN Partition Plan they
rejected it. They were offered the state in 1967. After Israel conquered Judea and Samaria the West
Bank they rejected it. They were offered to state in 2000 Yasser our flooding and Barak they
rejected it. They were offered a state with a with Omar 2008. They rejected it. They have the Israel
unilaterally withdrew from Gaza in 2005. And they did not create a state claim is that the Arabs did
not reject peace and then in your own disquisition, you admitted that the Arabs rejected the Peel
		

			Commission plan, which was the separation between the Jews and the Arabs which gave an extraordinary
amount of land to the Arabs. The Arabs then rejected the peace partition plan proposed by the United
Nations in 1947. They then proceeded to reject the Oslo Accords in 93. After that they rejected the
White River Accords in 98. They're rejected by Hooper rocks, very generous offer in 2000. I think
they're kind of the same talking points of view. Is this anything new that you've heard? Are you
familiar with both of these figures here, Ben Shapiro and the the another follower of
		

			Theodor Herzl,
		

			impossible
		

			to disentangle all the nonsense that's being said there. So I'll limit myself to some very basic
facts, which the record
		

			unimpeachably unimpeachably demonstrates, since beginning in the early 1970s, long, long, long book,
before Hamas even existed, the Palestinian leadership
		

			in the PLO, it was called the Palestine Liberation Organization, led by this fellow named Yasser
Arafat, the Palestinians were on record as supporting a two state settlement based on the June 1967
border. What's has come to be called the international consensus to states on the June 1967 border.
		

			And for the past 20 or so years, every year in the United Nations General Assembly, there is a
resolution passed or a resolution put forth called peaceful settlement of the Palestine question.
		

			And the terms of the settlement are very straightforward.
		

			Number one, that Israel has to withdraw from the territories it occupied in June 1967, namely, the
West Bank, including East Jerusalem and Gaza.
		

			Number two, the settlements Israel has built in the occupied Palestinian territories. Now
		

			numbering about 700,000 or more Jewish settlers are illegal under international law. And those
settlements have to be dismantled. Number three,
		

			there has to be what's called a just resolution of the refugee question based on the right of
return. And
		

			number four, the Palestinians should be able to exercise their right of self determination in the
territories from which Israel withdraws. Those are the terms of international law. And those are the
terms embedded in that annual resolution, peaceful settlement of the Palestine question. Every year,
the whole world except the United States, Israel, and some South Pacific a todos. Islands.
		

			Tuvalu, Naru,
		

			Tonga,
		

			aside from those Marshall Islands, beside from them, the whole world votes in one side, Israel votes
Israel in the United States. Well, on the other side, that's the record. The whole world has been
wanting to try to resolve this problem on the basis of international law. And the basic principles
as applied of international law as applied to the ISRAEL PALESTINE conflict. And Israel in the US
have rejected it. There are so many silly, stupid comments by those folks, because they don't know
what they're talking about. They just get Israel talking points, and they have no clue what they're
talking about.
		

			So that, to me is the essence of if you have any specific questions about specific claims, no, no,
no, we can go to the next next clip then. From here. We often hear this often you've I've heard you
also answer this but for many of our audience who haven't this is another key point that they always
bring out to justify the ethnic cleansing. The genocide that's happening right now is what's
happening in Israel is basically saying, Get the * out of Gaza. We are coming full force. For
Hamas. We do not want to kill civilians, please leave now. What is Hamas thing saying? Stay? We need
you. We need you to stay here. Why? Because Hamas uses its citizens to protect Hamas, whereas Israel
		

			uses the IDF to protect its citizens. Let me say that again. Hamas uses its citizens to protect
Hamas as human shields, whereas the IDF will use will protect its citizens. So if you if if,
		

			if Israel, if Hamas put down all their guns, all their weapons, there would be peace. If Israel put
down all their guns and all their weapons, they would all be dead, the moral equivalency is not even
close. So human shields, it's often repeated, you've probably got sick of answering the question.
But this is something that's used to justify the attack on civilians.
		

			human shield, human shielding isn't a precisely defined term in international law.
		

			But it's generally refer refers to the conscription, the forcible conscription of civilians,
		

			in order to protect or either
		

			combatants or military sorts. That's more or less, as I said, it's not a
		

			legal term,
		

			the evidence that has happened legally defined, but that's generally how people use the term before
civil conscription of civilians, to either shield combatants or to shield military sites. Now, I've
read the entire record, human human rights record on the ISRAEL PALESTINE conflict, since I would
say, probably since, you know, since around 2000, I've read before 2000 But exhaustively beginning
2000. Now actually, I would say even earlier, probably the first intifada, so that would be 1988.
		

			There's been no
		

			record of Hamas use
		

			In, I have to be careful about these things because we're covering a long period. Hamas doesn't even
emerge until the late 1980s. So let's just go to 2008, the first major operation,
		

			Israel's operations, its high tech massacres, occurs in Operation Defensive Shield in 2002, when it
went into Geneen. When is what did you mean? The city of Guinea. So we look at that whole period.
Let's just take one example, which I, which has been the most exhaustively documented. And that's
the Operation Cast Lead in 2008, nine,
		

			Amnesty International did the most exhaustive study of what happened during what amnesty called the
22 days of death and destruction, and namely, the Israeli Israel calls the Operation Cast Lead, and
it found no evidence that Hamas engaged in human shielding. Now, there are two further points I have
to make. Point number one, there is a distinction in international law between what's called
		

			human shielding, which is I said, it's not a legally defined term. And what's take what's called
Taking all feasible precautions, taking all feasible precautions in the course of combat, not to
endanger civilians. Now, that does have a legal standard,
		

			and a legal definition. In the course of combat, you're required by international law, to take all
feasible precautions, to avoid civilian casualties. And there have been some cases, as with an
evitable II be the case, when you're dealing with the most densely populated place on God's earth.
There are going to be some places where Hamas is going to be firing a rocket or a projectile from a
civilian area, that's just unavoidable, given the nature of Gaza. So there has been some claims,
some claims, not a lot, but some and we want to stay faithful to the factual record. Bahamas hasn't
taken all feasible precautions to wage combat away from civilians.
		

			But there's a second side to the story, which all the human rights organizations document. Yes,
there has been a lot of human shielding. There has been a lot of human shielding going on in Gaza.
But you know, who's conducting the human shielding? It's Israel.
		

			Israel take civilians and fires from behind them. Israel is wild. So this is documented by all the
human rights organizations get very show Israel take civilians, when it takes over an apartment
building, and places the civilians in front of the windows and then fires from behind the civilians.
It's real take civilians and forces them to sit be sit beside tanks.
		

			There has been human shielding, and it's been widely
		

			and repeatedly documented. Yes, Israel has carried out the human shielding. And when you go to
Israel, 21% of the population is Arab. And out of that Arab, I think 12% are Muslim, they have
political parties, they vote they have freedom of speech. They're prosperous. I've been to many of
their villages in northern Israel and compared to anywhere else, and Jordan or Egypt, Syria, Iraq,
there's nothing like it. No Arab citizen anywhere in the Middle East has the freedom to express
himself and to vote and to worship as he feels as they do in Israel, your response.
		

			Well, in the past few years, there have been several Human Rights Organization reports on the
		

			situation, the legal status of Arabs, Palestinians, in the area from the Mediterranean Sea, to the
Jordan River. There was one put out by
		

			The that Selim, the main Israeli human rights organization, monitoring the West Bank, East Jerusalem
and Gaza, there was a report put out by Amnesty International. It was a report put out by Human
Rights Watch.
		

			The first point to make is there isn't an occupation anymore.
		

			The occupation under international law, what distinguishes an occupation from an annexation? Or an
illegal annexation? is one thing. It's very simple. What distinguishes an occupation from annexation
is an occupation is temporary temporary.
		

			Well, is your occupy the West Bank and Gaza?
		

			In 1967,
		

			we're talking now about more than a half century.
		

			It's not temporary anymore.
		

			It's an annexation.
		

			So the first point we have to keep in mind is there is one state, one state, from the Mediterranean
to the Jordan. That is the state of Israel.
		

			And, as Beth Selim put it, there is one state and that state is anchored in the principle of Jewish
supremacy. Now,
		

			there are unequal levels of Jewish supremacy in the case of the West Bank in Gaza, West back
including East Jerusalem and Gaza, in the case of the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and including East
Jerusalem and Gaza. They have no rights. They have no right to vote.
		

			They have no rights whatsoever. Yeah, basically a HELOC, a slave population.
		

			Is he lying? Does he know this? Because he can go on. He says, I said there are unequal rights, you
have to remember, even the United States before the Civil War, there were blacks who were free. It
wasn't everybody, every black person was a slave. But nobody would make the ridiculous claim that
blacks enjoy equal the free blacks enjoy equal rights rights in the pre Civil War South. So it is
true that in the portion and we have to bear in mind, it's just a portion in the portion of that
Israeli state that extends from the west, from the Mediterranean to the Jordan, there is a portion,
namely, the Palestinian Arabs in Israel, who enjoy they have the right to vote. That's correct. They
		

			have representatives in the Knesset. That's correct. My last recollection, that could be wrong at
this point. But they had one supreme court justice. That's correct.
		

			But they were also second class citizens, Nobody disputes that that's just a silly thing to say. So
what one can say is that there is one state,
		

			half the population of that one state, or nearly half of the population of about one state, nearly
half would be about four and a half million. Yeah, I mean, nearly half, nearly half the population
has no rights at all.
		

			And haven't had any rights since 1967.
		

			And then the other portion of the Arab
		

			of the Arab population, namely the portion within the State of Israel, that is not the West Bank,
not East Jerusalem, not Gaza, but within Israel itself. They enjoy some rights, but they're still by
Gullo reckonings they're still second class citizens in 1000 different ways. It would be very
difficult now, to go through all the laws on the Israeli books, which relegate the Arabs of Israel
to a second class status. You could say, well, no, it wouldn't be exactly right. I can't find the
exact analogy, but that's roughly the picture. So we shouldn't forget that when we're talking about
Israel at this point. There's only one state
		

			the areas the West Bank, East Jerusalem, Gaza. They have been effectively an illegal
		

			li annexed to the State of Israel, they are illegally annexed territories, but part of Israel.
		

			Is this one state you're talking about is this undisputed Is this a fact that this is an apartheid
state that to have the Human Rights Reports are referred to one by Amnesty International. And the
other by that Selim described the whole of Israel as an apartheid state. Human Rights Watch
described, the West Bank, including East Jerusalem and Gaza as an apartheid like state, but they
refer to the State of Israel itself as the Arabs having second class citizenship, but not a not
equal to apartheid.
		

			And just a couple more questions before we conclude, I've heard you say, and this is I want this to
really sink into people's minds. And if their hearts haven't been darkened, you know, to have some
kind of feeling, you know, otherwise they gotta go see a cardiologist and maybe the cardiologist not
even help when you mentioned, more children have been killed in Gaza in the last three weeks. Oh,
		

			it was not at three weeks already. At three weeks already. It was more children killed, that all the
war zones in the world combined, either in the year 2020 2021 or 2022.
		

			Wow. Then you mentioned this a week ago. So that was that three weeks went to four weeks, it's up to
4500. I think we have to be clear, because
		

			now there's going to be mass death. There's going to be to has already been mass death. Now this is
going to be negative, because the whole medical system has collapsed. They're systematically
targeting every hospital and godson now. So everyone in an incubator is going to die. It's it's a,
it's the end of Palestine, and everybody from Joe Biden to Bernie Sanders, everybody who opposes a
ceasefire. Now has oceans have blood on their hands.
		

			They are complicit just in complicit in genocide.
		

			Why do you think I mean, and this can go into my final question here with the term never forget,
does that include Palestinians, the lessons that you learned what made you now come to where you're
where you are, where you put your career, you put everything? I don't even want to talk about
myself. You know, that's fine, a complete catastrophe unfolding. It's the end, you know, it's their
final solution. When you unabashedly, unashamedly,
		

			boldly, flagrantly, and blatantly target the hospital system of a country. Then you are in neon
lights in klieg lights, telling the world The goal now is the complete annihilation and
pulverization of a people. That's your goal.
		

			Okay, thank you. Thank you, Dr. Finkelstein, thank you very much. Brothers and sisters, we all had
loved ones that passed away. Mother, father, brother, sister, a close family member, but one of the
mercies of our deen is that with the right intention, we can go ahead and continue to do good deeds
on our loved ones behalf and what greater of a continuous good deeds so that the Giardia than
investing on their behalf in the dissenter and masjid and look at our center that will benefit
generations to come in sha Allah. So click the link below donate right now may God Almighty Allah
reward all of you I cannot leave without giving you a gift if you're not yet Muslim, and you tune in
		

			and see what these Muslims are talking about, and you'd like a free copy of the Quran. Go and visit
the deen show.com We'll take care of the postage and everything and get it delivered to you. And if
you still have some questions about Islam, call us at 1-800-662-4752 We'll see you next time. Until
then Peace be with you as salaam alaikum. And if you liked this episode of the deen show, like this
video, share this video far and wide and support us on our Patreon page so we can continue this
work. Thank you for tuning in. Peace be with you. A salaam aleikum