The Deen Show – #833 Epic Vaccine Debate with Mohammad Hijab
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The medical doctor discusses the potential risks of COVID-19 and the potential for side effects. They stress the importance of vaccinating healthcare workers and general safety measures. The speakers also discuss treatments for measles and the potential for vaccine to prevent future infection. They emphasize the need for research on vaccine side effects and the importance of patient consent. The conversation also touches on the potential link between vaccine and health conditions and the need for patient consent.
AI: Summary ©
In infectious disease, we know safe we do we really know safe Really?
Let's put it this way. And it just touches. A lot of people don't know what you mean by that, I guess call your doctor. Absolutely.
Okay, so Dr. Sima, so I don't disagree with that there has never been a study in medicine. And I've been in medicine 35 years, I'm sure a long time like you have doctor. On the other hand, there is definitely data that vaccines have prevented certain diseases, like polio, you know, we don't see any paralysis from polio anymore. Just vaccines. I think that talking about just general the general vaccination, I'd like to hear what Dr. Sima would say, and then I have a follow up comment to that
perspective really seriously. So we brought on a medical doctor, and they ask, you know, the scholar asked a medical doctor, and he said,
we're here to have a heart to heart to, you know, get to some very important questions that people have on the topic of vaccines in general. And I just had a program last week, and I interviewed one of my guests, this was a pharmacist by the name of Lisa. And we had a very nice conversation, we went back and forth, and I tried to just be well balanced and present both sides. And just to get, you know, some of the things that people have a hesitancy because now there's some unanswered question, and they keep hearing certain things, that vaccines are safe, you know, that the best thing since peanut butter and whatnot. So what I left off with, was asking him people have a
question regarding this consensus. He said, how could we question this when there's a whole group of academic scientists, scientists, you know, globally, you know, that agree to this?
Is it is this is this true? Dr. Sima?
Yeah, it will be you're talking about the safety, right? Safety? Yes. Have you come in vaccines that we have? I'm not even getting to the current one.
You know, we know that the vaccines are safe. We do we do. And be
being an infectious disease. We know safe we do we really know safe. Really.
Let's, let's put it this way, compared to the disease, say if you have to choose between the disease and take between a fever, a cough or rash and some diarrhea, you will take on Allergy, Asthma, eczema, ATD, ADHD, insulin dependent diabetes and seizures. You would say that's the trade off. So
what is the date?
So we know safe, right? Because we've never had a placebo controlled trial. We know what every ingredient synergistic toxicity is, right? We know what every ingredient is. We really Where did you find that study? I'd like to see that one. We know we don't know, we don't know. We don't we don't know. That's the point. We make an assumption that just because we say safe and effective over and over again. And just because there's a large group of people who have bought that, that that that assumption is true, that we move that forward in group think and make the assumption that it's true, we make the assumption that the injection of these non proven to be safe compounds with no
synergistic toxicity that we can give multiple vaccines at the same time, with no synergistic toxicity is going to be safer than a fever, a cough, a rash, some diarrhea for the vast majority of people who contract and a viral infection. So I don't know that right? We know that. We don't know what was
nice, and it just purchased. A lot of people we don't know what you mean by that. synergistic toxicity is you take one ingredient alone and test it. And we know from basic high school chemistry, that you can have three completely inert compounds sitting on a table, and you can mix all three of those compounds together and cause a reaction that could like actually bubble over the top, maybe even explode the test tube, that's synergistic toxicity, that one by itself may be okay. But when you add a whole bunch of compounds, and there are more than 160 different ingredients in the various vaccines, when you put them all together, you may have an unknown consequence. Even with
pharmaceutical medications. You can have active metabolites, right. You can take a pill, it can break down in the liver, you can have active metabolites. So when you take there has never been a study in medicine, and I've been
In medicine 35 years, I'm sure a long time like you have doctor disrespectfully that there's never been a synergistic toxicity tests of even pharmaceutical pills of more than two at a time. And yet we prescribe people to take four or five, six medicines, and we really don't know the effects of those active compounds and those active metabolites. The same is true with vaccines. I totally agree with your statement. We are talking about you know, relative if if a person
I have seen that with the Army Corps talking about COVID are we talking about different just regular the regular vaccines, just regular the you know, the standard And may I ask me ask your doctor where what kind of a hospital so what's hospital system you work in? Are you an infection or adult? I am adult adult, and you work where I am in Illinois, suburbs, Hoffmann states, okay. Is it a big hospitals? Like a level three center? Yes, it is a big hospital that we have just for discussion. We have discharged
I think 1200 patients just from my hospital with COVID. Okay, so what happens in the big tertiary hospital centers? And
hospital? It's a community hospital also big center. Yeah. And I? And are you are you hospital based or office space? boat? Okay. So you know, infectious diseases, mostly hospital, most hospital, right? So what I don't at all, at all, just
discount or
toss away. Anybody who may have died from an infection happens. That's why you're an expert. And that's why we have a specialist in infectious disease, we have that. But by the time someone gets an infection and ends up in the hospital ends up in intensive care and requires your services, we have a very small subset of people who are the sickest of the sickest agree it does not it all equate to the normal infections that happen in normal kids out in the community. True. So you end up, God bless you, that you end up in the very sickest of the sick situations, taking care of people that require a sub specialist, not just a doctor that can prescribe an antibiotic or an antiviral, but
requires your expertise. So you have a bit of a skewed perspective as a physician, that you get to see the sickest of the sick. But yet, we would vaccinate everyone down to the healthiest of the healthy, we inject foreign matter into healthy children all the time, that would just normally have a fever, a cough, a rash and some diarrhea and recover with full lifetime immunity. So doctor, sorry, just Sorry, just to kind of ask your dog kind of perspective on what you're saying that is your position that we shouldn't vaccinate to help you serve the society? Or is your position that vaccine altogether are not good, or that we should be vaccinating those who are at the highest risk
was that position? Well, after 20 years, and more than 40,000 hours, I'm not sure doctor how many hours you've spent specifically digging through the medical literature looking at problems with themes. I've spent 20 years and 40,000 hours on this. So I didn't just decide two weeks ago that this was a topic I wanted to talk about.
So
my position is, is that vaccines are not safe, to keep you from getting sick, because you can be fully vaccinated in contact contract the infection anyways, they do cause harm and sometimes death. And that health is an inside out phenomenon. You know, it has to do with the Krebs cycle and all of the different nutrients that you have. And it has, you know, it's how you keep healthy from because we swim in bugs all day long. But we only get excited about about bacteria and viruses for which we have a vaccine. Now, how many infectious disease cases doctor do you see that you take care of? They're deathly sick, very sick, that we don't have a vaccine for I'm sure quite a few as an
aspirin. Absolutely. I think we are.
We are talking about two different things here.
Are we talking about COVID only or we are we want a discussion about vaccines, just vaccines. I think that talking about just general the general vaccination, just the general general vaccines before even you know this one, what's in his trials, they just came out just the regular vaccine.
And, you know, it's how you look at the situation as Dr. Sherry is your last name. My last name is 10 penny. Penny so I can
I can call you Dr. Kerry. Absolutely.
Okay. So, you know, there is as she said, you know,
literature that will spend your lifetime reading about complications and side effects of vaccine and still you won't be done with it.
Um, so you know, my ex my husband who God rest his soul passed away seven years ago was a Navy pilot. And he said that there was an expression in the Navy, if there was any doubt this plane was not going to was going to crash. When we if there's any doubt that this there's that there's a problem, there's no doubt that we're not going to fly. So when we've got 30,000, there's reports per year to the vaccine adverse event reporting system, and they think that's 10%. When we have 10s of 1000s of children who've been published in medical literature showing problems with vaccines, when do we decide that the risk of the vaccine and the complications and illnesses that come from this
vaccine far super exceed this very small number of children who may contract that infection and have an adverse event from it? Why don't when do we weigh that? When do we weigh that? Sorry, I just wanted to get Dr. Siemens because we kind of understand your perspective on the vaccines. Now. We want to get like an overall response from Dr. Seema where she stands on on the vaccine discussion.
And why it is, as a physician, you know, we the literature, you can see literature both ways, you can see literature that you get side effects and long term effects from vaccine. And they have data about that. But on the other hand, there is definitely data that vaccines have prevented certain diseases, like polio, you know, we don't see any paralysis from polio anymore any weakness from polio. And as you can see, smallpox is eradicated. So you can argue either ways, and it's, it's your choice, whether its result is measles. Another example? Yes, usually.
And what is the trade off from the
the trade off from from, first of all, polio is still around, and we, but there are more cases every year on an ongoing basis of paralysis caused by the vaccine than paralysis caused by the endemic infection, we've actually eradicated completely eradicated off the planet, one of the three strains inside of the polio vaccine, but yet we continue to use the same vaccine vaccinating for something that doesn't exist. In the Western Hemisphere. We've had no polio since 1991, we've been declared polio free, there are less than 10 countries in the world that still have any level of endemic polio. And yet here in the United States, even though that we are back, we're vaccinating for
something that doesn't exist. We give children four to five doses of polio vaccine for a virus that has not existed in the Western Hemisphere, since 1991.
kind of ask a question here at this juncture, I know I know that. I don't want to talk too much. But just because a lot of lay people, especially those who have been obviously exposed to mainstream narratives will say, will be given the measles example.
Basically, the fact that if you look at the ratio of people that have been that were dying, before the measles vaccine was two and 2 million kids were dying per year. That's 1963. Data. Two out of 2 million, there were two deaths per million children that contracted measles the year before they started giving the measles vaccine that CDC data. So millions and millions of children dying in America for measles wasn't happening. Well, CDC, Centers for Disease Control
from England from east from UK, so they have a different one over there. Dr. Show they don't know about the CDC. Oh, I see. Okay, he's from England. Yeah. From London. Oh, oh,
no, I am from a developing country. You know, I have seen measles. I have seen polio when, you know, when I was in training, so I
saw if we can get that disease burden down with vaccination, I think it's an achievement. If we do not have those cases. It's not I think we are not talking about
us. Yes, us there is low incidence, but still we have seen cases of measles, but I agree. Not everybody you
Daddy's with measles, but they have been
the bad outcomes from measles in children. But we also have written evidence of people that had contracted measles as a child like I did, I had measles mumps rubella, pertussis twice, I had all of those things. I think it's one of the reasons I'm a very healthy adult, because my immune system was allowed to have fever, and exercise its cytokine reactions at the appropriate age. Now we have evidence that shows that people who had had measles at a young age had a much lower incidence of brain cancer, they have a much lower incidence of autoimmune diseases. You know, measles was always a unnatural symbiont, which means that we work together for the for not for you, doctor, but for the
audience, that a symbiotic symbiotic relationship is that that was a good thing, that when we had a measles infection, that it burned off the residual adult mother proteins and it locked in our basement membranes. And in fact, in the 1940s children that had an a frog syndrome, which is a condition again, for the audience, a condition that the basement membranes of their kidneys were leaky, and they used to leak proteins. And sometimes if it was a severe case, children could die from that. The treatment for that was to induce measles, they expose them. And when they had the high fever and had the measles infection, it sealed those basement membranes and cured their
nephrotic syndrome. We have a symbiotic relationship with a lot of microbes. We're not here to get rid of them. I'm just looking at some data. Now. There's a diversity has a website called vaccination knowledge. And I'm just going to read out to you something that they weren't right.
This is the graph below, right. But it shows that the report a number of legal cases in the UK between 1940 and 1990,
before a vaccine existed, there were often hundreds of 1000s of medical cases every year.
cases.
In 1967, the vaccine was first introduced, there were 460,407 suspected cases of disease by the end of 1980s. vaccinations had brought it down to around
a year.
With one or two deaths, it says
yeah, and since then beagles have cases have fallen, still further cases and
deaths broken. So how would you get one or two out of there? So our data, and it goes all the way back to 1963? So cases, yeah.
You have no idea what recovery rate is, when they report large numbers of cases, cases does not equal death. Cases means they had an infection and all but one or two of those recovered? Yeah, you know, can I ask you guys tell me this this? This is the billion dollar question. And recently, we also had in our community, we had some people come together, and they brought on a medical doctor, and they asked, you know, the scholar as the medical doctor, and he says, Does autism does do vaccines cause autism? And then the standard answer is, No, it doesn't. So and then you go on the CDC website, and it says the same thing. So how would you guys answer this? Well, I would say for
one thing, the CDC was just forced to take vaccines do not cause autism off of their website.
It's no longer there, because they had to admit that it does. And it can, we've got adjudicated course cases. Plus on the package inserts, it actually describes that vaccines one of the side effects is encephalopathy, which means your brain isn't working correctly. And by definition, if your brains not working, if your brain is working incorrectly, depending on how severe that encephalopathy is, it can be diagnosed as autism. We've just learned as a community and as a bunch of physicians, the knee jerk reflex, about about vaccines and autism without looking at the adjudicated cases through the vaccine court without looking at the medical literature without
looking at the sealed indictments or a sealed documents without looking around at the community and talking to parents that have video recordings of their kids birthday being normal, getting their vaccines and a week later, they just send it into autism, which they do allow that as evidence in court cases. What are the cases? How, how prevalent is this? For example, 100% of children that have been vaccinated how many of them exhibit these symptoms? Well, New Jersey, New Jersey, New Jersey data is one in 24 kids,
one in 24.
And we have we have heard data that can
come from Dr. Stephanie seneff, who's a PhD out of MIT, that if we continue on the same vaccination schedule, that's impunity. By 2030 or 2035, the the rate of autism in this country alone, we're not talking in the world, this country will be one in two. And of that 1% of that 50%, more than half of those will be boys. Now, if there's any doubt, there's no doubt. And I believe that one of the biggest problems with the vaccine schedule is how many that we give it at a time. Because again, it goes back to this goes back to the synergistic toxicity thing. If we add now children, because my children now get multiple doses of 17 different vaccines? Yeah, I thought you said that.
Jersey.
So question is,
Are you are you making reference to those watching can can check that?
You can find that anywhere? I mean, there's if there's a lot of data in the US, I don't have a reference off the top of my head. I haven't looked at. I haven't spent a lot of time on the Autism data lately. I've been my head's kind of been in COVID.
I didn't know that was gonna be like, a question. You know, I wanted 24. In New Jersey. There's places that are greater than that. I mean, there's that data, you can find it's out there.
What about the comment, comment, comment? Go ahead, Mohammed. Glad to see that. How would you respond to that? I think this is one of the biggest worries that people have.
You know,
I'd like to hear what Dr. Sima would say, and then I have a follow up comment to that. Yeah. I have heard I don't want to give any numbers to it. But I have heard parents that, as Sherry mentioned that they believe that the child was normal prior to vaccination. Do I have any data to back up? No, but I have heard Personally, I'm not talking as a infectious disease physician, but as a
as a community member. I have heard that. But have I looked up in it? Or do I have any comments about it No.
Particular that cause the otters it can be any of them.
I mean, we've we've put a lot of emphasis and a lot of focus on MMR over the years, but it can be you know, it can be DPT it can be any of them. It can be Hepatitis B it can be DPT it can be any of them. I've got a problem question here. Some will argue that this tenuous link or this problem between correlation and causation, a lot of these kids would have been diagnosed with autism anyway, because growing up Autism is not usually detected in up until let's say, for example, a certain age and so those kids, we have no way of proving that they wouldn't have had autism had they not been vaccinated. Except look at the unvaccinated population. What is the incidence of autism? In the
completely unvaccinated population? It's almost as close to zero as you can get. And why has it that the powers that be whether it's in the UK, or the CDC, or the World Health Organization, or or UNICEF, or any of those organizations? who spent billions and I'm talking 10s of billions, maybe even hundreds of billions of dollars a year to vaccinate everyone in the world? Why have they not set aside a couple million dollars of that, to do a really well done? really well done? Because well designed study, to compare the health of and completely unvaccinated kids to kids who are fully vaccinated? Why haven't they done that? They've refused to do it. It's been requested multiple
times. We have small studies that have been self funded to try to show the health of that, and why do they refuse to do it because it can't find what you're not looking for. And you don't want to show under any circumstances that unvaccinated children have an intact healthy immune system and are not in the same category of asthma, allergies, eczema, ear infections, on and on and on seizure disorders, epilepsy, as vaccinated kids. They don't want that data out there. Therefore, they don't want studies to do it. even come close. Not even close.
Let me ask you guys before I know you got a heart stop coming up in 10 minutes. You and Dr. Sema, both this question for both you guys. I asked. I wanted just to talk about vaccines in general, we kind of went over here on this side.
Back to the billion dollar question, usually what's brought up and it was also in this question that was asked to scholar to the to the doctor and the doctor repeated that. No, there's no link and then he brought up what's always brought up is Dr. Wakefield that he was discredited. He's the one that brought this up. You know about this, obviously, Dr. Sima, Dr. Williams.
field and he was discredited and then that case is closed. Now, what do you guys have to say?
My opinion about that is if your only defense and only argument is a 1998 paper that was pulled, can check, don't you think there may have been a little bit more research since then? I think that it's such a lame argument. It's almost laughable, ever actually read the original paper he didn't. But it's, that's the other reason why that is such a lame argument with people who really don't know the science, and are just trying to use sound bites to change the dialogue, because they really have no idea what they're talking about. Dr. Sima, did you want to come on? Yeah, autism, you know, be I go by CDC data, you know, being an infectious disease physician. So I, as I said, autism, parents feel
strongly about it, that autism is associated with vaccines. But I see a benefit from vaccines know, being a district weight position and my position, I still feel that vaccines are helpful. But can they have side effects? Yes, they can. They do have side effects. So I think it's the choice of the person who's taking the vaccine they have to consider and the risks and the benefits. The parents and the parents and the patients, you know, Doctor see me I think, Dr. Sima, thank you so much for saying that. Because that's exactly where it should be. We should not be mandating and exact same. Because the one is the one area of medicine. Yeah. And you would concur with this, Dr. Seema, I know
you will, that when it comes to vaccination, it's the one area of medicine that we don't take into consideration, family history, individual genetics, we don't take into it, you know, our food history, what are people eating? What is their lifestyles? Who is at greater risk? And, you know, when you've got two parents that say, hey, when I was a kid, I had severe reactions to vaccines, like doesn't matter to vaccinate your kid anyways. It's, you know, when we take a medical history, as you know, we asked for things like cancer history, autoimmune diseases, seizures, do you have a history, if you have a patient that has headaches, you have a family history of migraines, we always
want to know what the family history is, does that make you more susceptible? When it comes to vaccination, vaccinating children, it's the one area of medicine and even adults, it's the one area of medicine that we completely ignore our past medical history and family history. So thank you for saying that. It should be a person's own research and a person's own decision.
You know, we were talking about the difference between death and cases, we need to
pull out something this might be flawed. I mean, I've looked into the discussion on this, who, please resulted
to
decrease the number of deaths when the death rate is two per million? I guess it could go 2.5? I don't know.
You know, I think that would be the my take on the vaccines is, yes, it decreases the disease. Yes, it decreases the death. But people have experienced some side effects. And it should be an informed decision from, you know, whoever is taking the vaccine, either the parents or
the vaccinate.
consensus, Sherry, my guest this week, he kept pushing the thing about us being too
skeptical. And he kept saying, How can this be? I'm talking about general vaccines where you have a global community international community consensus, how would you respond to that? I told him that I get back to you and hear your response to that. Because I would say that the consensus the global community, the vast majority of physicians, with all due respect to Dr. schema, the vast majority of physicians have just said safe and effective vaccinate, and that's all they've done to look into any of it. They memorise the schedule, they may have read. That's it. What about the regulatory agencies? What about what about the regulatory agencies that are there? Dr. Sherry Penny, they're
the global community also, what about them scientists, you know, people who are at that level I have I have over seven I have over 17,000 papers in my collection. 17,000 papers of scientists and community people that have shown problems and injuries associated with vaccines. That's not a one off. You know, anecdotal. When you have 17,000 papers that show problems with each of these individual vaccines. I would just say that the global community March lockstep because that's
What doctors do, they march lockstep? They're like a herd, herd of water buffalo, they move together. And they haven't taken really a deep dive into any of it.
If you can send it, I know you got to go. I want to we made history here. Why is it that we've, we have finally been able to put, I mean, two together. And this is Dr. Sema, what do you think we've been trying to get? I mean, you're a brave soul. Thank you. Thank you so much. We need to we had a conversation. What do you think Mohammed, he job these conversations? are they important?
I feel much more informed now. But I feel like it should be a taster for me to go into more research, following the numbers of the trails, the data to
have given us. And it's given me a little bit more clarity. And I think a lot of people watching this will feel the same way. You know, cuz I really do have to run. But I want to once again, Dr. Sima, thank you so much, because nobody ever wants to do this. I mean, I've we've tried multiple times to get discussions like this. And the people who are pro vaccine advocates, will say, I don't want to have a discussion. Because if if there's a debate, it proves there's something worthy of debate, and you bring into the table, a healthy discussion, you know, of both sides. I really respect that. And thank you so much. I hope we can do this. Again. I wasn't aware of this was going
to be the discussion.
We made history here. Have you ever sat with three Muslims like this? There's a lot of misconceptions about Muslims. Have you ever sat with three Muslims like this? Absolutely. The first time and thank you, all three of you. God bless you. If you ever have any questions about Islam, anything you got look up Muhammad he jobs. He's one of the main guys out there educating people. You got me you got Dr. Sima, you made the connection with Dr. Sherry, any data you want to exchange, we're here for you Dr. Sherry, and Dr. Seema, and vice versa. Dr. Siena, this is because this is where I spend my time. You know, if you are like, Well, here's this set of data. What else is there?
I mean, I'm happy you can read the studies yourself. I mean, the stuff that I pull out comes from mainstream published literature, it doesn't come from conspiratorial calm, and it doesn't come from just my opinion. And so if you're interested, I can get them to Dean and he can get that onto you. And, and then there, you can then have the opportunity to really do fully informed consent with your patients. And and a patient say, Listen, I don't care what you told me about the vaccine, I still want to get it. Well, at least you know, and when other people ask you things like, well, what's in it? Are there any long term studies? What are the complications, that you can actually have a full a
really informed answer for them? And thank you again, I hope we can do this again sometime.
Thank you all. Thank you. Nice to meet you all. Thank you.
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