Shaista Maqbool – Looking at Divorce Through the Lens of the Sirah
AI: Summary ©
The speakers emphasize the importance of women being given the freedom to make their own decisions and the need for them to be given the freedom to make their own decisions. They also touch on the misunderstandings of certain concepts and the importance of straightening out relationships. The segment covers several couples who were divorced and separated, including a woman who was married in zuba and married a br relations in the country. The segment also touches on a woman who was killed by a man, and a woman who was married a brides and was divorced.
AI: Summary ©
Assalamu alaikum, warahtullah. Welcome everyone to and she
thrived, which is the platform that holds space for Muslim
divorced women. Today, we have Shaykh, shayista makabul as our
guest today, salaam alaikum, shayista. Welcome what happened?
Thank you for joining us today. Thank you for having me. I'm just
going to start with a bit of a bio. Shester makbol spent 10 years
in Damascus, Syria, where she learned Arabic and advanced
Islamic sciences such as fiqh, Sira, tafsir, Hadith and akrida,
amongst others. She started her studies as a teenager in Queens,
New York, under the tutelage of Sheik Abdullah Al adhemi. She
studied in the US with Sheik Muhammad Ali abubi as well. She
then traveled to Syria, where she studied under numerous scholars of
the highest caliber.
Sheik shayista has studied the sheik eriki schools, though her
speciality is in the Hanafi school. She has a passion for Sira
and Hadith, and has heard the shaman of Tirmidhi eight times,
Sahih, buchadi three times, and along with numerous other books,
she has heard almost all of the six canonical books of Hadith.
Sheikha Shahi stay is an expert in the fiqh of menstruation in the
Hanafi school, and it is rare to find a woman with her credentials
who speaks English as a first language. She currently resigns in
Albany, New York with her husband and her four children. Welcome
shayta.
Thank you so much.
So from we It seems as if your particular interest is the
Prophetic history, the Sierra, the the women of that era, and this is
why you feel so strongly about removing the taboo surrounding
divorce, right? So, yes, no, no, definitely. You know, my passion
is, see it, and he definitely, I love that. And, of course, women,
right? Because of being a woman myself and just,
I guess, just being in knowing women who have gone through
difficult times and, you know, being divorced and things like
that, and just what they've had to face.
You know, it's, it's something that our communities really need a
revamping, like they need a total different like, you know, way of
looking at what divorces, even just when you go, when a woman has
gone, you know, this is from experience, like from a very close
people's experiences. You know, going a woman going to seek help
from the from teachers, from Shu from Imams, and what they tell
her, it's I, I honestly. I find it appalling and
Inshallah, that's one of the goals. Actually, I'm going to be
doing soon. I didn't tell you this offline, but I'm going to soon,
Inshallah, I'm going to be doing a project I called nirmedukil, which
is for women who are seeking either counseling because of
difficult marriages, because a lot of times they need counseling.
They don't need counseling for Imams or she you know, they need
counseling for professionals who are not going to tell them.
Basically, you have to be just be patient and kind of suck it up,
you know, because that doesn't help. So that was actually going
to be my question. It's actually a very interesting point, because I
hear stories over and over again. Are women who are very frustrated
because of exactly what you just mentioned. So it might be
interesting to our listeners to since I'm sure you've heard a lot,
given your role of what are very classic things that should you
approach with, and the kind of responses that they give, and then
to kind of reframe that, that might be very interesting.
You know, I've just heard just stories of women going to Imams to
seek help. And you know what they're told. It's, it's
appalling. It really is. It's like, oh, well, I see him in the
masjid, and I never see you in the masjid.
You mean you're like, trying to gage religiosity. This woman, she
has children, of course, she's not going to come into the masjid like
a man. You know what I mean? Just this assumptions, these
assumptions that are made by, you know, community servants, their
community leaders and their community servants, right? And
it's just, that's why, when I hear these things, I'm just shocked.
I'm like, we need, there needs to be another place for women to go
that's safe, and there's understanding that, you know,
ideally, it's a woman who's counseling her or coaching her. So
that's one of the things with the project that I want to do, is just
fund a woman like a woman who can study that, you know, go to
through the counseling. Because in our area, for example, we don't
have a female like counselor, coach, so that's something that,
you know, I'm going to start with here, and then you know, if, if we
can expand Inshallah, but so just funding that for women to be able
to get that coaching or counseling that they need from experience,
from professionals, you.
And,
you know, just even after divorce, there's so many women need help.
You know, they're just kind of left in the lurch by the
communities. You know, I've heard, you know, women with four kids,
even young kids, and they're, you know, it's so saddening. Like, oh,
the Imam never asked me, you know, how am I? You know what I mean,
like you expect, you expect some kind of empathy, empathy, just
like human concern.
Because the one is that just because a man is a religious
scholar and has religious knowledge, it does not mean that
he at all has the skills for counseling whatsoever, unless he's
a person who has actually taken some kind of formal counseling
training. It's a huge assumption to think, just because it's over
in a religious leadership, they know exactly how to be whether
it's a marriage counselor or anything, yeah. The second thing,
as you said, is that sorry, is that we need a space, which is
what we try to do, at least virtually, to offer that kind of
support where women don't feel judged and they feel seen. They
feel seen and heard. Yes, yes. So this is the thing. I mean, I'll
say women and men alike. Women and men alike, if they don't women,
you know, teachers, or you know, status, if they don't have
professional training. You know, I've had bad experiences with, you
know, the advice given by women teachers, you know? Yes,
absolutely. Sorry. I mean, both genders, of course, because
religious isn't equal, that you have mental health training, for
example, right, right? You know, this kind of, like, just
understanding, of like, you know, so it's just, it's very
subpoenaing in to come back to the when we see the Sierra, and when
we see how the Prophet sallallahu, Adi said, I'm dealt with women who
felt very strongly, or it just came with their issues. It was
just, it's so different. It's so different. And I'm like, why can't
we go back to that? We need to. We need to, you know, paradigm shift?
Yeah, definitely. So it's like, so that's one of the things you know,
in terms of, you know, even there's like, I've heard of like
Imam, as you said, Not no experience with no, no formal
training, but just through
their like, training, through, I guess, their experience,
which is very lacking, you know, in terms of like, the response is
still so biased towards the men, and it's very, it's very
disheartening for the women.
You know, I've heard things of like, you know, a woman, after she
spoke to took advice of a couple of people, and then she decided to
go to her family's house. When Imam says, after she called the
Imam, she said, Why didn't you call me and ask me? And it makes
me wonder, does she have to take advice of everybody in the whole
community? You know what I mean? Like things like, oh, you know you
should, you should, you know, be very careful to take decisions,
make decisions like that, as though she has to get an approval
for from everybody, like she's not smart enough to to decide for
herself that this, I cannot take it anymore. You know what? I mean?
These kind of, like, really judgment calls. It's really
upsetting, because when we see how the Prophet salad is. And when a
woman came to the Prophet saladis and said, I can't take it, she
didn't say, Are you sure? Did you try this? Did you do this? You
know, wait, wait a while. Let me all. He was like, okay, you know,
are you going to return his? Are you going to return his Mahat? And
she said, Yes, more. And she said, That's it. It was done. You know,
easy. And so we see it a lot that many women who want a divorce in
Johannesburg, when they go to the arnama, they are not granted it
because they told you need to be patient, etc. This is even in the
case when I've heard when even the husband might be, you know,
consuming narcotics like drug abuse or something. And they'll,
they'll, they'll just, they won't give, they won't give it to her.
And I unfortunately, that is,
it is a Hanafi jam yet over there. And then I've heard, then the
women fly down to Cape Town with Chef urinama, and then they're
given the fuss. And it shouldn't be that complicated and that
difficult, you know, as if you've gotta give like, 200 reasons. Why?
Yeah, so other than myself, I'll be honest myself, when I was in
Syria, I was taught it a certain way, and I just consumed it as I
just grew older, I guess, and just got more experience, I realized
the way that it's been taught, especially since I've studied with
men, most of them, almost all of them are men. They're going to
teach in a very specific manner. Like, it's very literal. Some of
the things that we hear about, especially with rights of
husbands, and things like that, they're very literal. Like, oh,
you need to please your husband no matter what, and then it doesn't
make sense with the other collides with the other principles of.
A teen, like a woman is not like she doesn't have to be like in in
the self. They say, Fanny fit that, right? They say, you're,
you're annihilated in Allah. With Allah, she doesn't have to be
annihilated in her husband. You know what? I mean? She's their
home. She's still her own person. There's still these principles of,
there's no one of the huge principle, there is no harm and no
reciprocating of harm. There's a hadith that the Prophet salad is
said. You know, all these ideas of marriage that we have in terms of,
you know, does a woman need to obey her husband? What does she
need to do? It has to be looked at when there's when she's safe, when
she's safe from harm. She can't, she can't be forced to do
something when it's harming her, physically, emotionally, mentally,
or all of these things. Do you get what I'm saying? Like, it's when
we're taught this, when men teach this, this, you or, you know, this
mentality that, oh, if her husband said so, she has to do it like a
blanket, like it becomes followed or wage,
right? Regardless of what, how it affects her. This is not what our
Dean wants from us, like that. We will just destroy ourselves,
destroy our personalities, destroy our own identities, right?
Psychic, our mental health, our missional health, and all this,
our principles basically, and kind of melt into the person who is our
husband. You know, that's not the point. So, I mean, this is we can
have this, because I'm actually, inshallah going to do, I plan to
do, like, a whole course on this, just to tell, you know, kind of
take, take away from these ideas, or go these ideas of obeying the
husband and things like that. You know, remind our women of the huge
umbrella that they're under, the principles that they that are
overshadowing those rulings. You know that which, which, namely,
are that there is no harm. You know, if any harm is being caused
by
the rulings of the Sharia, the rules adjust. It shifts, it
changes so it's flexible. That's the important thing, that it the
Sharia. It's not static. You can't take it Yani literally, word for
word, black and white, because we are human beings, it's we are
multi dimensional, multi faceted, and so it's more complex. So yes,
I really like that a lot, because it's not just using a manual and
applying a manual, yeah. So for example, I'll give you an example,
like wudu, right? If you have a cut
or if you have a wound, okay? I mean, normally we have to wash
every single part that is normally washed right, like so if you had a
cut on your like, your hand, what would you do? Um, they say. Or if
you have a wound, you know, say it's like something serious, so
they say, if you can, you wash it. But if it harms you, like, if
there's a band aid on it, um, you just wipe over it. But if that
harms you, you leave it, you know. So there's, there's levels. So my
point is, is this is followed, something that is followed to
normally wash, but if it harms it goes, it goes through those
states, you know. So, and this is with everything. So it's not that
the ruling, you know, the ruling is still there. You know, to wash
your hands is still thought. It's always going to be followed, but
it will adjust to that person, because now that there's a wound
and we have to take care of that person. So that analogy, you can
apply it to a person. You know, definitely, I'm just giving you an
idea, yeah. So, yeah, Bismillah. So we went off on, but I'm going
to go back to and I think it's, you know, so we now hand it over
to you, if you would like to, you know, from the female teacher's
perspective, share with us whatever you think pertinent. Yes,
thank you. So loud and say, Dina Muhammad, you are. First thing is
that this concept of divorce that okay, it is, it is the most hated
of the halals. It's the abukad Halal is the most hated
permissible act that is true, and that is a Hadith that is true in
terms of,
you know, in general. So there are a hadith that we say generally.
But again, everything, almost everything, is qualified.
Actually, I didn't. I wanted to go back to talk about that Hanafi how
you said that the Hanafis don't give that and then they go to the
I mean, that's in particularly in the South African context. I'm not
making a judgment on hanafism as a whole. No, no, I the reason why I
say that is because it's become so rigid. As I said, it's become so
rigid, and people are scared to apply the rules because they want
to stick to.
Like, the,
like, what's in, literally, in the books, you know, but however they,
they're scared to apply the other rules that are there in the books.
They are there, like, just as I said,
Yeah, so, I mean, for example, personally, I wouldn't, you know,
if somebody came to me, I wouldn't feel like I could give somebody a
divorce. Do you get what I'm saying? They would I would say, go
to someone who's like, like a Mufti or, you know what I mean,
even though I give fatwa, but I would want them to go to, like,
they're a council or something formal. So in the honey female,
they go to the judge. There's technically, they're supposed to
go to a judge, and then there's all these things. When we're
living in America, there's a lot of other stuff, you know. So
regardless, with Hanafi Shafi, you know, there are ways to help
women, and that's what, you know, we have to focus on SubhanAllah.
So anyway, we'll put that to the side for now. So go back, going
back to this.
So bismuth, so when I said about the about the Hadith, how the
Prophet sallariam mentioned that this is the most disliked or hated
of permissible acts, we have to remember that everything is most
all Hadith,
with the exception of the Hadith that speak about Allah, they are
all,
what is
it called? They're, they're, they have, they're specified. They're
specified to certain context, right? They're contextualized,
right? So, for example, this divorce now a divorce in when we
go to the Filch, so this is Hadith, when we go to the folkaha,
what do they say? They say the divorce is, takes the five ACAM,
which are it could be it could be haram, but it could also be
followed or waged. Now I want to say, but it could be waged. It
could there are times where divorce can be
obligatory. And what is, what is obligatory in itself? What does it
mean? It's something that is rewarding, you know, something
that you do that is rewarding to do, and if you didn't do it, you
would get sent. So now, when you think about it that way, like, for
example,
if in this, if someone is in a situation, if a woman is in a
situation where she is being so
she it's just so difficult for her, and she just feels like she's
going to lose her Dean to Continue like this, right? And there's,
there's a hadith where, like, women came to the Prophet,
salaried some, and she said, I fear, I hate to have kufr in my
Deen. I hate kufr, you know? And if a woman is in that state,
should she be like, should she be told, Oh, no, divorce is the worst
thing. Just keep on, you know, keep on going, No, she should be
like girlfriend, you know, get out of there and save your dean, save
your email, right? So that becomes full for her. It becomes almost,
you know, it becomes not almost. It becomes obligatory for her to
get out of that state, for her to protect herself in any way if
she's going to
I mean that likewise for the man. This is not just for women,
obviously, likewise for the man if he feels like it's going to
happen. Or not just for for them, but for the kids. That's another
thing. A lot of people stay in the marriage for the kids, but he
there's times when you need to leave the marriage for the kids
too, right? There's times when the situation in the house is so
dysfunctional, it is so detrimental to everyone in the
household that the best thing to do, it would be the best thing to
do, is to separate, you know, and have like that breather, you know,
this, just separation, have a divorce, and let people just live,
live like that, and just, you know, Inshallah, thrive
separately, instead of being in a mode where people are just
attacking each other and just trying to bring each other down,
which is not, you don't even you're not even surviving. You're
basically, you know, so that would be, it's wag again, obligatory in
those situations where it's become so detrimental to everyone around
so
I, you know, my experience, and I'm not, you know, I'm not going
to say everybody, but I just feel Like a lot of the way that the
mindset is in the Muslim world, in the Muslim communities, I don't
think women, you know, practicing women. I'm talking about
practicing women here, religious women. They don't go to divorce,
except when it is really difficult. So it doesn't usually
of a.
Woman is asking for a divorce, or she's seeking divorce. It's, it's
already become that time when it's kind of obligatory for a demo, not
Vaughn. You see what I'm saying? Just, I just feel like, because of
the general mindset and how divorce is so discouraged and
generally, of course, nobody wants to get divorced, right? I mean
this just unless, unless. The reason why I say it's a religious
woman. I mean, if a woman has somebody already lines up for her
and she's like, Okay, I want to get a divorce so I can marry this
person. That's That's something else. But, um, which happened in
the Sita too.
So that's happened in the Sita too, which I'm going to mention
that Hedy, and it's really quite amusing, actually, but
so if that, but even that, you know,
when that lady said, she, she, she acted like she wanted to get a
divorce, the Prophet said, no, she, but he didn't. He didn't put
her down like, Oh, you, you know, he did say, you, you probably want
to go back to your your first husband. That's why, because her
first husband had divorced her three times. She got married to
someone else, and she's just like, she just wanted to go back to her
first husband. He's like, you want to give he's like, No, until you
taste it. It's almost like,
taste him and he tastes you. It's like, it's a very the way in
Arabic, it said, so it's,
I don't want to say the Hadith now because I want to, I want to save
it because there's a, there's a is a very amusing part to it. So I
want to come when I'm giving the examples inshallah. But here, what
I'm, you know, the point here is that that sometimes divorce can be
obligatory. And, you know, usually, if a woman is, I think in
normal circumstances, if a woman is going to ask for a divorce,
you know, she's a point. Yeah,
return, yeah,
right. If she's a God fearing, practicing woman, she's usually
already gone to that point and and again. You know, like, for
example, I'll say, like, I asked this question about a woman
wanting divorce, like on a forum, like on a whatsapp chat. And the
the response was, it was by mufti, it was by mail. But he said, he
said, Oh, that happened so quickly. Why would she do this?
And my response was, like, you know, a woman, especially with
kids, she's the last person wants a divorce. She's the last person.
I mean, it's, she's gone through that, you know, do I have to
explain why? Why is it that we have to explain ourselves every
time you know that she's asking for a divorce? We need to do you
need to know all the nitty gritty details. What drove her to get a
divorce? Why can't we just accept and respect her decision to
realize that this is the last thing she would do. And so I
mentioned that, I said, you know, she's the last one who wants to
get a divorce, and it's only because she's pushed to that and,
you know, and that's one of the things that bothers me. It
perturbs me every time I see that reaction, we're like, Oh, why? I
don't like to get, you know, I don't like it when I maybe I'm a
bit biased, but especially the men, I don't like it when, because
I don't see it in the Sierra, you know, I don't see the Prophet
sallaris. I'm questioning women like that, you know, questioning
their intelligence, or questioning their decision. I don't I, you
know, I feel like, especially a a religious woman, she's going to
she, she heard that hadith from the Prophet sallallahu Sanam, that
it is a woman who asked for divorce with without a good
reason, she won't smell the smell of parrot, fragrance of paradise.
And that's, that's, that's huge, right? That's a big burden on
women. And I think we take that, you know, a religious one, she's
going to take that seriously, right? And so, yeah, she is
usually pushed. But that's another thing I want to talk about. One of
the things I want to mention not that we can't have this opinion
that which I think also in the Muslim communities, unfortunately,
as though the man is free to, oh, that hadith was for the women.
Like it's only if a woman asked for divorce does she get. Like, is
it really bad for her? But the man, if he divorces, oh, it's,
it's fine, as though there's nothing wrong with him divorcing.
That is not, that is not true at all. The basis, because of this
hadith that Abu halal, that is the most disliked of the halal, who is
that for? That is for the man. That is for the man that he he
better be really careful when he gives a wife a divorce, when he
divorces a woman.
He better be really careful when he's going to get when he's going
to divorce a woman, because, so the scholars say it's close it's
it's something that is, it's close to prohibition, right? Divorce is
close to prohibition, except when there is, like, an excuse when or
when for a good reason, except when there's a good reason. So
meaning that a man who's like, you know, getting married and
divorcing, and getting married and divorcing, this is not, this is
not it's not okay. It's not okay for a man to do that just, just
because there's a hadith that says it mentions women asking for a
divorce. It doesn't mean the man, by no means. And I want to, I want
to mention this whenever, in the marital context, whenever there's
something that says for women, usually for a man, it's to a
higher degree, because the man is responsible for everything. He's
responsible for the woman as well. You see like because of there's
that hadith where the prophet ISAM says, Each of you is a shepherd,
and each of you is responsible for his flock. He said, The man is the
shepherd. He's responsible for, for his flock, for his family, and
the woman is a shepherd with in the house of her husband, and
she's and for his children. And she's responsible for that, but he
is, ultimately, he's responsible, like it, for everything, and so
for when a woman does something, you know, if there is something
specifically, like Hadith mentioned that a woman shouldn't
do this, the man is definitely not supposed to do it even to a higher
degree. That's what I'm trying to say. So because he has more
responsibility he's included in that he is included, or he's I
just feel like in the Islamic paradigm in which we've lost this,
we have to understand that the men being the word, that they the rija
kawamun Anisa, that they are the Hawaiian that they are the
caretakers of women. That this was understood in Islamic society, in
like madinan society, it was understood that they had so much
responsibility, that so much responsibility, and the women were
more carefree, and that is why they're a hadith directed towards
women, because men understood that from the directives in the
default, like the default. So do you see what I'm saying? Exactly?
So the fleece that specificity to women is because it's already
established upon a default baseline of what exactly, exactly,
because there was so much responsibility upon men already,
you know, there's already, like, you're a cowem, you're responsible
for women. You're responsible you are. You have so much
responsibility. And as a leader, you know, some people say, okay,
they're, they're leaders of women. And I said, the whole point of the
meaning of a leader is that you do what's best for the woman a leader
does never. Is not doing things that are best for is it in a
selfish way? You know? Because so I had this conversation with
someone, and they were coming at me like, as though it was like, Oh
well, the men are we have. You're supposed to obey us. You're
supposed to, you know, like, come work, come in at a as a leadership
role. And he said that even ambassador, the law and who he
says, he mentions that in the steps here, which is right that he
says men are leaders I eat. That means they're leaders of women.
When there's QAM and they have, they have leadership. And I said,
that's exactly what it is your leaders, meaning you, it's wajib
on a leader to do what is best interest of those he leads. You
see, he it's never okay for a leader to, oh, you know, to lead
selfishly. The fact that you are leaders, that fact that even a
pastoral deal, when he says, he said, You are a leader, you know
not to, not that you are a leader to do whatever you want, but that
you have to, even, for example, a parent to a child, they have to do
what's in the best interest of the child. You know as to the to the
point that they can't, of course, you know nasiha. Right to have
that nasiha. And when the Prophet SAW, said a dino nasiha, you know,
the deen is nasiha to give good counsel, to give to do what's
best, you know, to give
sincere advice, right? This is, this is, it falls on the shoulders
of who primarily so the men understood that the men were so
such manly men, like, in terms of, like, real men, because, who,
because why? They have the example of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi
wa, right, and he was the most amazing, like man who embodied
true masculinity in terms of, you know, with strength and with um.
Safety. And this, actually, we just made a post how Sina, Musa
Ade Salam this story, when he was with the woman, remember, with the
and he gave the he the two women, they didn't, they couldn't water
their flock, and he saw them, and he was very tired. He had come
from Egypt, so exhausted he came from Egypt. And then when he says,
who's, what's, what's wrong with you, with white, and he says, she,
they said, We don't, we can't go until the other shepherds leave,
right? And, and our, our father is an old man, so he did that for
them. And they said that he lifted the rock off that well, which was
10 men usually have to do it. So he's very strong, amazing
strength, and but that, that,
that sensitivity that you had all the other shepherds. They were
men. They were there. Nobody else helped them, right? I was like,
What? What is that? But it was that light of Prophethood that he
had in his heart arisen, Sina, Musa, arisam, right? That he
helped these women, that chivalry like so there was all these
shepherds. They see these other two women. They don't care. It was
only Sina Musa coming from this long journey. He's so tired, and
he's like, okay, he lifts that all by himself. He waters it. And then
that's why the lady afterwards, she says to her father, the girl
who you know, eventually she gets married to him, right? She says,
hire him because he the best person you can hire is the kawiul,
Amin, the strong and the Amin, but Amin, it just doesn't mean
trustworthy. It means someone who's safe. You know, safe meaning
what, like a woman can be safe. She feels safe around him. She
whenever she says something, it's not rebuked, it's not belittled.
It's not, you know, and that's what the Prophet sallawa Did his
he was the example. He if this was, I'm saying this, I'm saying
this because if this is Sina, Musa arisam, we know that the Prophet
sallallahu, Sanam embodied all of that in more, right? And so, and
we see that. So I can go on, but this would be that I'm actually
getting off the top. Where was I? You
were going to narrate certain stories from the Sierra, yeah? So
basically, I was saying that, yeah, I'm I'm here, right here. So
I was saying talking about the responsibility lies dominantly on
the shoulders of the man, right? And interpreted that hadith about
the women, because it's not exclusively for them, per se. So
that, what I'm trying to say is that we, when we find a hadith
pointed towards women, or specifically mentioning women,
there are more so for men. Like, for example, that other Hadith
that says, if a woman were to do kofran and ashid, like, if she
shows ingratitude to her, she's, he says, most if you do in
gratitude to your husband, right? And actually, it's, it's in that
hadith, it says most of the inhabitants of * are women. And
they said, Why? Because you do show in gratitude to your husband,
right? And if she sees in him something,
even if she if he did good to her all for her whole life, she's
point. Pick the one thing. It's all. It's not like you didn't do
anything for me, right? But when I studied it with my with my Sheik,
he mentioned it's the quality of ingratitude that got them into
*. You like, it's the quality of ingratitude. If it was, if that
quality is in a man, it's going to end up, end him up in the same
place. Do do you see my point? It's here. The Prophet sallariam
was pointing something out for women that they have an issue
with,
which, not coincidentally, you know that book,
men are from Mars. When are for me? Do you know that? What his
name gray?
You know he mentions how when women and men give points, women
give negatives, whereas men don't. And it's really interesting how he
mentioned that. And I was like Subhanallah, this is what the
Prophet sallariam said, because he mentions that when men do
something wrong, she'll start giving him negatives until he's a
zero. And he says, In this book, I remember that she said, but he's
not a zero, because he did all these but the woman said, says to
she, she, she says she's a zero, whereas the men, they don't do
that to women. So I was like, subhanAllah, how the Prophet
sallallahu Salam had that insight that we know from this. Like, I
mean, you know, we know he had that insight before, but it just,
I just read it in a book, and I was like, wow, you know, he's
trying to say the same thing that the Prophet sallarius thing. So,
yeah, so the men have more responsibility of, so when we talk
about divorce, they definitely have more responsibility of, like,
there it's not allowed to divorce women just for any reason. And
there's a hadith that's narrated by Imam byrani. He's where the
Prophet sallallahu said, is reported to have said, do not.
Not divorce women, except when there is a suspicion. And iba, you
know, something very strong, right, a suspicion. For, he said,
For, indeed, Allah hates the tasters and from the men and
women, meaning those who just marry
to like taste men to get a to taste the woman, like, just, just
see how she is,
and discard her, right, exactly. And then you're like, oh, I can,
you know, especially, you know, I guess more so if they're rich,
right? It's they can give them a head, taste her and then get
divorce her. And there's no problem, right? And that's so
discouraged, because what is not just described, it's, it's hated.
So,
so that is, you know, about just understanding divorce, where it
comes in, falls in the Islamic paradigm. Just that, yes, it is.
It is something that is disliked, and is, you know, close to
prohibit, prohibit, prohibited, for men and women, except when
there's an excuse or a real reason. And that, that that hadith
that is mentioned that if, if a woman were to ask for a divorce,
then you know, for the men, the expectation is even higher. So
it's even, you know, the men cannot divorce. And there's an
explicit Hadith I want to mention here. When the Prophet saw you,
what he said him? He said, Whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day
should not hurt or trouble his neighbor. And then what did he
say? After the same Hadith, right? And he said, and I advise you to
take care of women, for they are created from a rib, and the most
crooked portion of the rib is its upper part. If you try to
straighten it, straighten it, it will break, and if you leave it,
it will remain crooked. So I urge you, so
you know, take my advice regarding women, like be good to women. And
here I my, my commentary on that is that when the Prophet saw him,
he is saying, Do not harm your neighbor. And then he comes to
women and your wives,
of course, you don't harm your wives. And now he's saying, You
don't harm your wife, but you be good to your wives, you know, be
good to them because, and don't go try to change them, you know. And
I just said this the other day to someone like, it's not, you know,
I'm don't, according with, from a man's perspective, a woman is like
a rib. A woman is a rib, like she's crooked, or she's, she's,
she's different, you know? And that's, this is what the prophet
salad is in when he's talking to men, he's trying to, don't, don't
try to change her. Don't try to change her. Don't try to make her
be like you. Don't try to make her think like you, or try to, you
know, try to force her to be like you. She's going to, you know,
she's going to be, she's going to be crooked, or she's going to be
like a rib. Don't, don't try to change her. That's the way she is.
So it's not. And I said that. I said that to someone, they were
like, Oh, you want to as though you want to write off your
like, all the bad things that you say and say you're because I love
this hadith. It's not a negative Hadith because I love it, because
there's understanding that I'm different than a man. You know,
I'm different. The Prophet salad is trying to he's talking to men
here, right? And he's talking to them and telling them, you know,
he in their own terms, like, I feel like, you know, remember,
Meccan society is very different than Medina society. Meccan
society was like, the men were so dominant over women. Women didn't
in the senior Amara Dilan, who he says, our women didn't even speak
to us, and when we had a need for them, basically it was just like,
we just kind of spread their legs. That's it, you know what? I mean,
it was just like, if we had need for them, we went, That's it. But
he said, when we went to Medina, it was a people who their women,
had control over them, and my Sheik, Sheik Abdullah, he always
says that the Prophet salad always took the medinas, Medina's way. He
took the way of the people of Medina, and he was, he is the
people of Medina. So of
course, everybody took his way because he showed the way and his
way. And we see from his, you know, so much interaction with the
women, how different it was. So here, my point is, is that he's
talking to men who are of mindset of like, Meccan men who are like,
they don't even talk to their women trying to, like, speak in
the in their terms.
They bingo. They kind of cognitive frame, yes, because yeah, there
was physical there was physical abuse and things like that. And
he's like, don't try to straighten the woman out. Don't try to, don't
try to straighten her up. Don't try to think. And see, this is the
thing. When men think they're doing, I'm just doing it for her
benefit, for her sake. I'm just trying to, and, you know, this is
for her sake. You know,
don't try.
To fix her, because this is not your you're not going to fix her,
because if you're going to fix her, you're going to it's you're
going to break her, and then eventually that will lead to
divorce. So now I went to this, the part where there are women who
the woman who thrived,
who did get divorced, and who you know in our what we know of are in
the Sierra
who got remarried very easily. Generally, in in Madina society,
women were like, they're always like getting married. It was so
easy. It was easy to get married and it was easy to get divorced.
It was easy both ways. And even after divorce, it was very easy
for them to get remarried. So the first person I wanted to mention
is our mother, say the zanab a bin Jash, right? She was married to
Sina Zaid, Zaid Bin Hadith, harita rodi lamanho, the the love of the
Prophet, sallAllahu, alayhi salam, and we know the story is mentioned
in the Quran, right, that that they, they weren't,
they weren't compatible. And a lot of it, you know, some of the
commentary, is that that she didn't like him because she was
from, she was the cousin of the Prophet sallallahu. And she's very
high lineage, very high lineage. And then, so in the beginning, she
didn't want to marry sinners aid, because he was a slave, or he used
to be a slave, and, you know, just different lineage, just different
compatibility there. So she didn't want to marry him in the, you
know, to begin with, it seems. But they got married, and there was a,
you know, a lot of friction. They didn't get along. And eventually
we know that, you know, from the the Sierra from is mentioned in
the Quran. So eventually, the she, when seen as a divorced her, she
married the Prophet salad. So she, she definitely thrived. She
married someone who was very beloved, to the Prophet salad
ISAM. And then after that, she got divorced and she married the
Prophet Salla ISAM. So it was, you know, he, yes, he married someone
who was divorced and she married someone who is she definitely
thrived after that. Another one is actually also someone who married
his son, son of Zaid, who was Usama bin Zayed, which is Fatima
bins place, and she radila. Her story is very interesting, because
as a post like there's a lot of fiqh
talk around her, hadith is what happened. Is her husband, he
divorced her. He was traveling, and he sent a message about her
being divorced three times, like completely divorced. So there is
no taking back here, right? And originally, like in the Hanafi
Madhab, even if you're a woman is divorced three times, she will
still be entitled to nafaka or the provisions, and for that term for
all of the schools,
yeah, I believe it's all right, recipient of the marital
maintenance during that right, the marital maintenance correct during
the period of the idea, during the waiting period.
But in her Hadith, in this hadith, she says, my husband did not
provide for me, or I went to the Prophet saladis, I'm asking about
my maintenance, and he said, There is no maintenance for you, and
there is no housing for you either.
But see, this is, this is what I'm talking about. This is where
community comes in. This is where communal responsibility. He said,
You're not entitled to that from your husband, right? So right now
she doesn't have a place to say. Could I just interject you to
remove some confusion, because I was confused when I first heard
this. So just to provide some context, the default is that a
woman is supposed to be a recipient of the marital
maintenance during the waiting period. However, for a certain
reason which we are not sure of, which we are not sure of, this
woman, she was not permitted to receive the maintenance during
that time. And so the NEPA cinema continues, and that's when Yes. So
she's told the prophet salad is himself, she is not entitled to
that this specifically circumstances. He doesn't leave
her hanging, right? He doesn't leave her hanging, but she says
so. He says to her, go stay with um Sheri. Should he provide? He
provides her a place. Okay? So she doesn't have a place, but he
provides her a place. He as the you know, the Amin or the, you
know, the, you know, the caretaker of everybody salaried, right? He
provided her a place. And then he says, No, not in um Sharik. He
says, No, actually, my companions, they go to her house a lot. You
won't be comfortable. You won't be able to, you know, take off your
clothes comfortably to go stay with um, even um.
Muktu. He's blind, and there you can take, you know, put down your
clothes.
And then he said, and, and this other thing he said, he said, and
don't,
like, literally, I'm not going to translate it, but it's literally.
It was like, don't lose, don't let us lose. You. Mean, at meaning,
after you're done with your death. Come to us. Don't let us lose you.
I He had someone in mind for her already. So he's already, you
know, I, when I hear that, I'm just like, Do you know what
battles he's going to? He's, he's like, especially in Medina, one
after the other, sometimes it was like, one month. You're, you know?
I mean, there were battles where he was in the house for an hours
and then he went back out, you know, so Allah had just amazing.
He was so busy. And literally, him and the Companions, the Sahaba,
they are out on the battlefield like they are.
They're fighting for their lives, right? You're you're fighting.
You're facing death every time you go to a battlefield. And then he's
coming back, and he's like, don't you know? He's taking care of
where this woman is going to live, where, and he's going. He's like,
he's trying. He's already in his mind. He has a suitor for her
because somebody she can marry,
right? Yeah. When he tells her, don't, don't, you know, I don't
get married by yourself, meaning, just see that they would get
married really fast. They get married really fast after they're
done with their and that they're ready to get married. But he's
like, don't, don't, let us lose you. Come to me after you're done.
And so it's just that, that, that fatherly figure again, right? So
Allah, Adi Sana, it's just like, for me, it's like, I'm like, wow,
he has time to think about that. You're, you know, in his
Subhanallah, amazing hearts, Allah, he carried everybody. And
it's something that a father would do, right? He's like, thinking
about, what is his daughter after this period? What is she going to
do? And who can she marry? And that's what he did. So when she
comes to him, and she says,
she mentions two people,
muawiya and who, who is this?
She says, muawi and Abuja. And so she asked the Prophet sallallahu
alayhi said, he says, As for muawi, he has, he's poor, he
doesn't have any money. And she said, As for muawiya, he doesn't,
he's poor, he doesn't have any money. And
here it says Abu jahim ibn hada, okay. And he says, For as for him,
he doesn't take the stick off his neck, meaning, some people said he
has a stick on his neck like that. You know, either he's traveling
like, you know, how you you have, like, they wouldn't have, like, a
bag. And the old in the cartoon sometimes, right? We see that. So
that means he travels a lot, or that he's someone who beats women,
right? Yeah. So he said, Don't marry him. And he said, What? And
he said, What? Where are you
with regards to Usama bin Zaid? And so in the one narration, he
said, What do you think? Where are you with Usama bin Zayed? So
I love that, that that phrase that he said, Where are you, Aina,
auntie, where are you with Osama bin zay? Like, how do you feel
about him? Right? And just that's that expression. And at first she
said she she wasn't, she wasn't too crazy about him, and her
family didn't like it either. But then afterwards, she's like, you
know, whoever the messengers allow, it is some chooses for me.
I'm going to go with that. And so she ends up, she did marry him,
and she said, I married Usama. And she said I was, everybody was
jealous of it. She's like I was, I was like, the envy of the town,
like, you know, she was. People were jealous of her for marrying
Usama, and she had children with him, etc, etc. So here again, a
woman who
has been divorced, and mashallah, after that her divorce, she's
thrived very so much so that, you know other women were jealous of
her, but wow, like, you know, not that she got divorced and see, I
think it was just so it wasn't, it wasn't odd for people to get
divorced. So it wasn't like, oh, look, she got divorced and she got
married. I don't think that was even in for in the conversation,
like, wow, she got divorced and she married Usama. No. It was just
like, Wow. She were married with sama. You know what? I like that.
The thing that she got divorced, stigma attached. It was so Addy.
It was like, so normal, normal, like, Oh, she got divorced, yeah,
oh, but she married Usama, you know. So it wasn't like, like, it
was a wow factor, because she was divorced and that it was just
that, you know, she just married Asama. So that was amazing. So,
so.
Was Fatima bin Zayed. And so the another lady who I, I mentioned
briefly about, was the the hadith of FAB the wife of fabit
ibn place, and his his story was basically this, the she just came
to the Prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam. Alayhi wa salam, and she
said to him, this is very popular Hadith that she said to him that I
I don't
blame him, or I don't find any fault in his Deen, but I hate
having kufr, or I hate disbelief in after Islam. And so he asked,
So the Prophet sallallahu, some said to her, will you give him
back his Hadith, which his garden that he gave her for the man? And
she said, Yes, and more. And he said, As for more? No, just, just
the just the garden itself. And so she gave it back. And you know, he
ordered her
to, he ordered Fabi to divorce her.
But here what I find. So I love this hadith, because it just
shows, like a woman, she's She's not saying, Oh, I'm not. She's
very she's already made up her mind, right? Here she is 100%
she's like, I hate having kufud after Islam. So what does that
mean? Is he going to the Prophet sallallahu said, you know, there
may be room when somebody's unsure to say, or are you sure? You know,
have you thought about this? But here, this woman is coming, she is
100% sure what she wants to do, like, she's like, I hate doing go
for it. So when the Prophet saws him, hears that, he doesn't say to
her, you know, well, did you try this? Did you did you go through
this the way? What Allah says about getting a person from your
family and a person from his family, it's beyond that, right?
He's beyond that. He He accepts that he knows he's like, okay,
just, let's, let's keep it moving right. Let's keep it moving like,
Let's do what you need to do. And that's it. And there's no question
it. And I feel this is just respecting a woman's choice,
respecting her Akal, and respecting her choice that she's,
you know, she doesn't need to be told, she doesn't to be reminded
of a hadith. She doesn't need to be run. And when she's made her up
her mind, you give her that personal von that we give to
everybody, right? That good opinion, that good opinion, that,
yeah, she's been through all that, and she's, she's made up her
decision, and I'm going to respect that decision, you know? And this
is what we see. It was so easy. So when, when she made that decision,
the Prophet sallallahu Salam had it passed right away. And just so
much, just for me, that's so empowering. And unfortunately,
it's not practice, but it's so
it's comforting to know that it's supposed to be, you know, it's
supposed to be. So male is Pano Tara, you know, fix our ummah.
And okay, so this other,
now, this other lady who came to the Prophet, sallAllahu, alayhi wa
salam, and so she was married. This is the Hadith, what I this is
what's amusing, when she's narrates this hadith. She says, I
was wife, but he divorced me, and he it was a final divorce, like
three times. So after that, what's supposed to happen? You're she's
supposed to marry someone else. It's supposed to be consummated,
and then if that, if that one divorces her, then she can go back
to the first so, so she said, then I married a brahman in zubaid. He
said, But he
she said, Okay, so she came to the Prophet sallallahu, sallam, and
she says to him that
she says, she said, I, I, you know abrahman. He said, she doesn't
have anything except, like this piece of he doesn't have with him
except,
like, the end of my garment. Like, basically,
like, their, their, their, Sobe, their, their garments were made
out of like, rough material, right? So it would be something
like, like, her, her thobe would be like, like, something rough
over here. She's like, he doesn't have anything like that, except
like this, meaning she's implying that he can't have relations with
her.
Oh, he was Oh, okay. When she was oh, she was referring to his
anatomy, yes, oh, I see. Okay. She's like, he doesn't have
anything except, like, hood, but the Sobe is, like, the end of my
soap, which is, like, you know, the hard part where the stitching
comes together, right? Like, that square that, that part. She's
like, that he, he doesn't have anything but that and, and the
Prophet salaried Salam said to her.
Yeah.
He said, you probably it's you want to return to RIFA, don't you?
He said, No, until
you taste his rosela, as in Arabic, is honey. Osella is like a
smaller for a diminutive form of honey. So until you taste
basically, you taste him, and he tastes you, meaning, until the
marriage is consummated, and
and then, you know what's interesting, her husband was
there. He was there. So embarrassing for him, and he said
to her, he said she he said to She's lying. Oh, Messenger of
Allah, I can, I can take her on, like a, like a, like a male CAVAL.
Oh, my God, there is, yeah, I'm telling you, this is SubhanAllah.
And then, you know, who else was there? Seen that Abu Bakr na
sinakhale. Oh, my goodness. This is, like a, like a whole meeting
there's what I find really interesting, is that this woman,
she knew what she wanted, right? And she's very clever, but she
has,
she is not holding back. She's like, I don't care who's there. I
want to tell the prophets from this and the way the Prophet
saladis and responds, he just smiles. And he says, You want to
return to Rafa, don't you? And he says, No, until this and then so
who was there was Khalid Ibn ware diwawan. And
said, Abu Bakr. So he says,
No, anak Khalid. Khalid Ibn Al was at the door. He's at the door
waiting to come in, and he says to Abu Bakr, so Abu Bakr is inside.
He says, Abuela, do you hear what this woman is saying in front of
the Prophet? He's like, Hey, you're not even saying anything.
And I think it's because Abu Bakr was like, that's how it is. You
know, the messenger, he's, he's got it covered. I don't have to
say anything, you know he can. The Prophet sallallahu says, going to
tell her if she crosses the line and he didn't, you know, obviously
he's not going to interject. But it was, it's really interesting
just seeing the reading of the Hadith and seeing how things are
playing out, like she's saying something very
kind of inappropriate. We would say, of course, you know,
inappropriate when her husband's right there, then her husband has
to defend himself or guy, and then, but Prophet saladis them. He
doesn't, he doesn't censor her. He just simply tells her the ruling
that if you want to go back, this is it, you know. This is what you
have to do. So that's another woman you know again. So she is
not only she's she, she got divorced, complete divorce from
her husband. She got remarried again, easily, but now she wants
to go back, because she, you know, and it happens. It's an
unfortunate situation where, you know, when that three divorces
happen, that there's still, there's, you know, divorce is just
in general. It's an unfortunate because there is so much. There's
so much to when, when couples come together, there's so much love and
affection, and then it's not estefra. I shouldn't say it's
always unfortunate, but yeah, I mean, just the time and the, you
know, there's, you know, there's a lot, there's a lot of heartbreak
in that, of course, you know, and Inshallah, divorce can be
Inshallah, it should be a very
like, not uplifting, but like.
It should get help, get rid of the shackles that were holding
the the couple down in the marriage. Inshallah, that's the
point of divorce to get bodak is literally, is mean, like getting,
getting away from, like, unshackled, you know? So hopefully
it's the whole point of taraq is that somebody was shackled into
something very difficult, and Torah freeing them. So
that is Inshallah, even in the wording of that in itself, it's
indicative that so so
the other one, so there are several other women you know from
the Sierra that were
married and got divorced. One of the prominent ones is, say, the
Asmaa, the daughter of Abu Bakar al Dila, and she was married to
one of the 10 best companions, who was seen as Zubair brother, and
who she was divorced. And
after her divorce, she didn't get remarried, because she was
divorced. I believe she was older when she got divorced, but she
everybody, you know, we all know who Asmaa was. And after that, she
was just her son, Abdullah bin zubaid. We know that he
tried to become Khalifa, and he was killed by hijab. And yous in
Mecca, he was killed. And so during that time, she was single,
like she wasn't married. In.
And Abdullah would come and seek her advice. And you know, event,
what happened after he was killed as well,
which she told Abdullah. First of all, Abdullah was she came to her
seeking her advice,
saying, like, basically, people abandoned Him, those who said they
would stand by him. They abandoned him at that point. And she said to
him, Well, what did you do it for Allah? If you did it for Allah,
just go, go. Like, basically, she was just telling him, sending him
to death. Like she's like, you know, you're gonna die, but you
did it for Allah, so just go. And so he went out. Because he was
like, should I go or should I not go? You know? So he was downing
himself. She said, if you did it for Allah, then go. And so he
went. He was killed. And
what I love this, this part of the story is that, Haja, I've been
Yusuf. She's very old at this point, and hijab, and Yusuf, he
wants to kind of mock her. She's like, Oh, did you see what I did
to your son? He wanted her to come to him. And she said, No. He sent
her a messenger to her, saying, Come to me. And she said, I'll
never come. I'm not going to come to you. He said, If you want me,
come drag me by my by my hair, by my pleats, what is called by my
braids. And so he came to her. He, they say, he he took his he
slippers, he went to her house, and he said, he came to her, and
he said, Did you see what I said, did to your son? And he said,
Yeah. She said, Yes, I saw that you destroyed his dunya. But I see
that he destroyed your dunya at your
No, I see, I see that he destroyed your akhirah. And the words she
said to her were so sharp. She said, I heard the Prophet Salla
ISAM say that there is a Mubi, like someone who is somebody who
destroys things from the thrif, from his tribe. And she said, I
don't see that person, anyone but you. And
I guess in at this point, he's the narrator says, so he took his
slippers and he left, meaning, he left like, very like, with his
tail hanging between, you know,
and my point in mentioning that is this very strong woman. And of
course, you know, we know her from the Sita, from the story of the
Hijra as well. But she did get divorced, but she it's not that
she was broken, and it was the end of we never heard from her again.
You know, she was right? She was a mentor to one of the greatest of
the Sahaba, right, Sina Abdullah bin zubaid, was the first Sahabi
to be born in Medina. Right? She was the first Sahabi. Abdullah bin
zubaid. She, she was the first, in terms of first Muslim to be born.
She was pregnant with him during the Hijra. She's a very strong
woman. She got zubaid divorced her, right? Again, two amazing
personalities. Remember sina zubaid, one of the 10 best of the
Muslims. Her the daughter of sin Abu Bakr, the known as that
netain, right? The one with the two What is it called? How do you
translate it fell to a sesh, a belt, yes, if you tie up your
waist, right?
So the one with the two belts, right? So that so two amazing
personalities. They got divorced, and you know, it was okay. She she
thrived. She continued to mentor her son, she continued to be, you
know, a personality in the medina society, such that even you know,
he had judge, even though it was to mock her, she was still
someone, you know, very considerable. So likewise, other
women, so many other women. Just a narration. I remember that
somebody,
one of the women, this was after her husband passed away, but she
was, she was, I think she, she gave birth, and she was getting
ready for hubba right away, for for suitors. And somebody came in
and says, Here, Hey, you can't get ready for suitors right away. You
have to wait. And so she got up and she goes to the Prophet
sallallahu sent him, and she asked him, and she says, nope, as long
as you gave birth, you're you can. She says, Don't listen to him.
You're ready to get married again. My point being is that you know
when women, you know if it was a divorce, it was death. Women very
easily picked themselves up and they got married. And just that
society, it was very normal, very normal for so they were people did
get divorced. It wasn't so hard, you know. People didn't spend
years in misery, you know? And this is what happens, like, oh, we
can try it out. We can try it out. Let's try to make it work. My
goodness, just years and misery. It's not working. You guys are
miserable. Get a divorce, just move on. You know, even in
addition to that, people who do get divorced, and they also spend
many years in misery because of all of the societal stigma
attached to it, and then they can't move on or get remarried
because it's made difficult. So that's also a.
Uh, you know, very straining on meaning. So, yeah, we have to, I
mean, in just that whole thing, we need to re revisit, we have to go
back to the theater and just embody that and learn from that
beautiful example of hope that things would change. You have
hope. We have hope. Yeah, I want, I we need to spread this message
Inshallah, I hope people Inshallah, people watch this and
they're like, oh yeah, that's how it was. And we got to be like
that, you know, I'm quite sure that our listeners would really,
you know, be amazed by some of the stories that you've shared with us
today. So thank you very much. I do want to just say it is Allah.
AJ, may Allah reward our master, Muhammad, sallAllahu, alaihi,
salam, with that which is worthy of Him. Salah Ali, Salam. So
jazakaran, thank you so much for having me. Salaam.
Alaikum, salamat Allah,