Shadee Elmasry – Hidden Dangers of Perennialism

Shadee Elmasry
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The speaker discusses the perennialist approach to religion, which is a premise of "monthood" rather than a reality. The importance of understanding the scale of one's opinion and judgment is emphasized. The perennialist movement has been controversial and has been controversial in Europe. The speakers also discuss misunderstandings and quotes from various speakers, including the use of "will" and the need for a "will" concept.

AI: Summary ©

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			Well, what is the perennial list?
First of all the perennial list
		
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			are people who hold that there is
a truth. And that truth is found
		
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			in the different religions, mainly
Christianity, Hinduism, they
		
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			pretty much ignored Judaism
because the Jews don't want any of
		
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			this. And Islam, they pretty much
are promoting that sometimes they
		
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			dabble in Native American
religion. I don't even know if
		
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			you'd call that religion, Hinduism
also, it's not religion. It's like
		
00:00:26 --> 00:00:30
			a plethora of different ideas,
that the British ended up naming
		
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			Hinduism.
		
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			That just basically the ideas of
the Hindu Lindt. So the prime is
		
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			do believe that there is a truth,
okay, and that it's in these
		
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			religions, same universal truth.
And when it comes to the actual
		
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			contradictions within the
religions, these religions, they
		
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			get fuzzy. And they basically say
that there's a mystical reality
		
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			above it all. So basically, to
ignore your intellect when it
		
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			comes to recognizing the
linguistic or the doctrinal
		
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			differences. And to say that, you
know, in order to bring these
		
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			ideas down to the level of their
culture, or their people or the
		
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			intellects of that time, they
needed to use this language. So
		
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			what one thing that you're faced
with is the necessity really, of
		
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			suspending your intellect, in
favor of a mystical experience
		
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			that somebody must have had, that
is telling us that it just ignore
		
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			all these clear differences like
Jesus, is it does a Trinity true,
		
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			or is Islamic version true? Okay.
		
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			Reincarnation, is that true? Or is
the Day of Judgment true? Like
		
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			when I die? What's going to
happen? Am I going to be judged?
		
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			As myself? Or as my soul and mind
going to be put into another body?
		
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			And if so, what source is
informing us of that? And number
		
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			two, like, do I remember? Like, if
I have this the same soul in the
		
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			same body? So is your memory wiped
away? Otherwise, you'd remember
		
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			who you were, and everyone would
be claiming? Hey, I was Elvis. I
		
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			was Napoleon. I was getting
ISKCON. And if that's not the
		
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			case, if the case is that your
memories wiped away, and you start
		
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			over fresh, then who would have
ever known that you're
		
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			reincarnated? Right? If your
memories wiped fresh, then who's
		
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			telling you that you're
reincarnated? So they dabble with
		
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			these things? And their approach
to it is essentially, an anti
		
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			rationalist approach, a mystical
approach that is, basically it's
		
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			not super rational. It's anti
rational is basically telling you
		
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			don't go the route of the common
man's intellect. Okay? And and the
		
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			end the literalist jurist
intellect, leave that and
		
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			recognize that there's a mystical
reality above these words. And
		
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			above these doctrines. Okay, that
is essentially, the premise of
		
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			perennialism. And the funny thing
about it the reasons that are
		
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			these guys extinct, like all my
would, have you ever heard of
		
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			perennialism? Outside of this? I
mean, right now, I'm just taking a
		
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			class and rockers like, yeah, just
because you know, you have to
		
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			fulfill requirements. Yeah. So
like a religion class, and they're
		
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			going over it. But it's weird,
like a lot of people like because
		
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			you have this discussion posts, a
lot of the people I think they're
		
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			leaning towards that, like the
perennial list. Most people, they
		
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			lean towards a type of
perennialism. That's a layman's
		
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			perennialism, which is not
necessarily just a friend of ism,
		
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			it's more like, between
perennialism and relativism. So
		
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			relativism is like there's not one
set of truths, but everyone's got
		
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			a little bit of truth. Okay,
that's one view. And there's,
		
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			there's a think tank zaytuna
colleges is gets a lot of funding
		
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			from them. I'm not trying to bash
a tunic, I'm just saying they get
		
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			a lot of funding from them. The
founder of that think tank holds
		
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			the philosophy that no religion
got it got it, right. But every
		
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			religion got it a little bit,
right. So hold on a second,
		
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			wouldn't you need to know what's
right, in order to judge these
		
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			religions, right? Like these
things, there's their logic is
		
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			always circular. There's a fund a
foundation. It's some rich guy,
		
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			who was seems like a nice guy,
right? He's some rich guy. And he
		
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			was into finding out what the
truth is. But like many
		
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			businessmen, they make bold claims
that are beyond their scope,
		
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			right? Like, you shouldn't be
making these claims. But he made
		
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			the claim, because when you're
really rich, you're surrounded by
		
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			people who just say, Yeah, that's
a great idea. Right? Otherwise,
		
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			their paycheck is gonna be in
doubt. So he ends up basically
		
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			saying that all religions have
some truth in it, but none of them
		
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			got it fully. Right. You would
need to know what's right. So you
		
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			got it. Right. Exactly. So you're,
you're claiming that you got it
		
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			right. You would need to know what
is right in order to make that
		
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			judgment. Just like who is it that
says that? Who was it that says
		
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			that?
		
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			No, like the followers of of NaVi.
I don't need to get in trouble
		
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			with them. But you know, I love
them and everything but they say
		
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			that do
		
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			They divide up the Ocala the okul
the intellect into the common man,
		
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			the mid range intellect, which is
the majority of like scholars and
		
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			football and Imams, and then the
high level intellect, which is the
		
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			mystics and stuff. Okay, if that's
the case, then you are making a
		
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			judgment. Can you show us what the
scale is? Right? What's the scale?
		
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			Because if they're if you're
making a judgment, these guys got
		
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			it. These guys are okay. And these
guys don't got it. What is the
		
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			scale? So we can study the scale,
just like saying IQs? Well, you
		
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			can give me the exam, I can study
for it, I can improve. Same even
		
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			to me on the opposite side says
logic doesn't benefit people who
		
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			are intelligent. They don't need
it. And if they're dull, they
		
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			don't benefit from it just
confuses them. Oh, hold on a
		
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			second. So you're telling me that
there's really smart people, and
		
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			there are adult people? Based on
what skill? Did you make that
		
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			judgment? Right. Based upon what
scoreboard based upon what
		
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			measuring stick? Show us the
measuring stick? Is that not a
		
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			rational statement that you just
made? Then it needs a measuring
		
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			stick? So I think I'm on both
sides. All right. It's me I used
		
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			to put away months he downgraded
Montek the hypnotic B buttons, as
		
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			I understand it, also, they have
some downgrades on month up. And
		
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			then nd if you get end up with
perennialism also is close to the
		
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			accordion view. But of course not
not even close to that because
		
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			like buttons are all Muslims,
right? The perennial list view is
		
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			not an Islamic view. You as
someone who has that as a motet
		
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			apostate doesn't directly want to
wherever you want to call it not a
		
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			not an apostate because he's still
saying he's a Muslim. But he says
		
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			indeed, they ended up saying that
all the fates, it is really not
		
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			necessary to make a decision on
which face but you need to be
		
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			orthodox within each one. You need
to be the Orthodox of each
		
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			religion in any of the religions
and you'll arrive at a great
		
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			spiritual reality. So
		
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			tough. He puts this together on
yaki and read it for yourself. And
		
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			here's the thing, I love it and
everything but you know what I
		
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			love even more perennial lists are
extinct. If you're just out there
		
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			in the realm of Dawa, just walking
around, you don't see them, right?
		
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			They have no mother there, who's
there? Who are their leaders? Who
		
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			are their books, that's all the
old generation, there was a
		
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			generation in the
60s 70s 50s 60s 70s into the 80s
		
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			maybe into the 90s that love this
mystical stuff that brought all
		
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			the religions together. It seems
like it had like two people with
		
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			divorced parents of different
religions, just looking for
		
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			something that brings it all
together. And the study of Quran
		
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			came out 2015 It got lambasted the
sales tanked. Okay, everything was
		
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			it really wasn't like a terrible
lunch for them. Because they tried
		
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			to sneak it in, you know, if they
had said, Oh, by the way, this is
		
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			the perennial list view. I'd be
like, Okay, well, they said it.
		
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			Right. They made a clear
distinction for the Sunday reader.
		
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			But nobody said anything, nor the
Sunni Imams who promoted it and
		
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			then they didn't say anything they
say this great book just keep in
		
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			mind there's a plenty of this idea
in here that could be acceptable
		
00:08:07 --> 00:08:10
			okay. It probably you know, would
it be too many people because
		
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			you're still
		
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			promoting something that is
antithetical to the to our
		
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			doctrine or Aki that that Allah
wrote down in the Quran. But
		
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			nonetheless, at least you could
say they pointed it out. Same was
		
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			a machete the man has a machete is
		
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			right.
		
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			Mouth as much as easily right. But
it's pointed out it's like well
		
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			known nobody. It's like anyone who
reads that book knows that. So
		
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			they they make it clear, same
thing with him. And Kathy, if
		
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			you're going to read him to Kathy
it, he has on them with a shabby
		
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			had some issues. Right, from from
our perspective. And so point
		
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			being is that
		
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			a couple years after that they had
a big fitna within their group,
		
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			their clique. Right. And, and they
are click of intellectuals, very
		
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			high level intellectuals in
different colleges and
		
00:09:01 --> 00:09:04
			universities, okay. So
		
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			on. As a result of that they
really just like, deflated, they
		
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			deflated. And now, past few years,
this is the most attention they're
		
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			going to get is from Yaqeen. They
got more attention from this
		
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			article. I'm not blaming a peon
for doing this, or for Kenya for
		
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			doing it, you need to have a
refutation. But I think they got
		
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			more attention from refutations of
their illogical ideas and
		
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			irrational ideas than he was the
only one giving them positive
		
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			attention consistently. Is a turn
a college I say it as a critique.
		
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			Right? This is there. They give it
positive attention. They never say
		
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			Okay, here it is. But be careful
to be careful with these ideas.
		
00:09:44 --> 00:09:48
			They're not Islamic ideas like
that little thing. She comes to
		
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			himself does it he says it he says
people say I'm a perennials I'm
		
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			not a perennial list. I mean, he
never necessarily explicitly said
		
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			it's cool for him. But for what
it's worth, he says that he's not
		
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			a perennial, so teach
		
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			distances himself from that. But
he's also not a Hanafy. He's not a
		
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			ham buddy. He's not a chef. Right?
He's not as ad. Bull not being
		
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			something is not a ruling.
		
00:10:11 --> 00:10:15
			Do I care what somebody is? I need
to know the ruling, right? These
		
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			ideas are kooky ideas. In any
event, it should comes into the
		
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			need to say it, everyone else is
saying it. Okay. This is a cool
		
00:10:21 --> 00:10:27
			furry idea. It is a European
ideology that poses itself as the
		
00:10:27 --> 00:10:32
			Judge of all religions, the nerve,
right? The judge of all religions,
		
00:10:32 --> 00:10:36
			and he goes deep into the 1600s.
And
		
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			he goes deep into there. The
origins of these ideas, it's a
		
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			long is, is he now officially part
of 15, or just a contributor,
		
00:10:46 --> 00:10:48
			because he's doing the podcast,
he's doing these other things, so
		
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			good for him. I like his ideas.
		
00:10:52 --> 00:10:56
			You know, his work in general. And
he's got a lot of really good
		
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			quotes here from them. And the
other guy who's their arch enemy,
		
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			what's his name? They all pretend
they don't know who he is. And I
		
00:11:05 --> 00:11:07
			forgot his name because I read his
book a long time ago. He's a
		
00:11:07 --> 00:11:10
			former perennial list, who had a
personal burnout with Martin
		
00:11:10 --> 00:11:15
			lings. And then wrote, like the
tell all about the perennial list
		
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			like, it is a little bit of a
cult, there's a clear and they
		
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			never want to come out and say,
Hey, we're printing this is our
		
00:11:22 --> 00:11:25
			belief, because illogical, it's an
illogical belief. Now, if you're a
		
00:11:25 --> 00:11:29
			Sedgwick, that's his name, Cedric,
Mark. I think it's Mark Sedgwick.
		
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			Yes, Sedgwick.
		
00:11:31 --> 00:11:34
			Listen up, it's gonna be an hour.
If you're a perennial list. If
		
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			your perennial is sympathizer, do
not dare show up to a molded and
		
00:11:39 --> 00:11:42
			say, Oh, I'm a Sufi. No, don't you
are the biggest insults of the
		
00:11:42 --> 00:11:46
			Prophet sallallahu sunnah. Why?
Because you try to put icing on
		
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			it. See that she's the the right
wing guys. They put the poison
		
00:11:50 --> 00:11:54
			right there. It's it's poised.
They want you dead. They want you
		
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			eliminated the hardcore
evangelical Christians, even some
		
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			of the Catholics. Catholics aren't
all like friendly. Right? I've
		
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			been on some Catholic websites and
go down to the comments section.
		
00:12:06 --> 00:12:09
			You know, they say things about
Muslims, they don't believe it's
		
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			true. They just believe it's a
falsehood that needs to be
		
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			eliminated from the earth. That's
their belief. Good. Catholics
		
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			aren't always all our friends
either. But then, at least those
		
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			that it's clear, they're against
you period discussion over the
		
00:12:22 --> 00:12:26
			liberals, it doesn't take, you
know, too much to realize that
		
00:12:26 --> 00:12:30
			they only like you as a minority
identity. That's it. As soon as
		
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			you're the majority. And as soon
as you're insistent, that is the
		
00:12:32 --> 00:12:36
			truth. And as soon as you forbid,
wrong, that they love. They're
		
00:12:36 --> 00:12:40
			your enemies. Right? It took maybe
a decade or two for for everyone
		
00:12:40 --> 00:12:43
			to get around to it. But now
majority Muslims know that the
		
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			Liberals are their enemies, the
progressives in these, but these
		
00:12:47 --> 00:12:53
			guys will come in and can fool
people for a long for years. For
		
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			years, you'll never know if you
don't read carefully, the
		
00:12:56 --> 00:13:01
			beautiful flowery covers critique
of modernity, right, all wonderful
		
00:13:01 --> 00:13:05
			critiques. That's the best part of
them the critique of modernity.
		
00:13:05 --> 00:13:09
			But flowery Sufi covers right, the
Sufi path of love and this that
		
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			and the other. Right if not to be
said this the only quote like
		
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			three Islamic scholars, and they
don't they heard the quote the
		
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			Quran, they never quote a hadith,
right? They rarely quote the
		
00:13:18 --> 00:13:21
			Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa
sallam. It's one of the signs of a
		
00:13:21 --> 00:13:25
			sunnah and not a sunnah. Okay, so
you can be fooled. And at the end
		
00:13:25 --> 00:13:29
			of the day, you do not require
Iman and the prophet for
		
00:13:29 --> 00:13:33
			salvation, yes or no? The answer
to them is no, we do not require
		
00:13:33 --> 00:13:37
			it for salvation. So don't dare
show but anymore. I did. Don't put
		
00:13:37 --> 00:13:42
			you know, anything of this stuff,
posting this stuff and talking
		
00:13:42 --> 00:13:46
			about this. As if we love the
Prophet. No, you cannot say I love
		
00:13:46 --> 00:13:49
			the Prophet, but I don't believe
you don't have to believe him. So
		
00:13:49 --> 00:13:53
			then what is you then did you lie?
Oh, it's just relative relative
		
00:13:53 --> 00:13:56
			who's deciding what's relative? If
you're deciding what's relative,
		
00:13:56 --> 00:13:59
			you gotta go up, right? You got to
rise up above and you'd be an
		
00:13:59 --> 00:14:05
			authority above them. Okay. So
this stuff is just, it's nice to
		
00:14:05 --> 00:14:08
			see though that the truth prevails
and these silly ideas, honestly,
		
00:14:09 --> 00:14:14
			it's an idea that caught on some
people emotionally. They promoted
		
00:14:14 --> 00:14:19
			it for years. Okay. Decades, got
in very high positions. But
		
00:14:19 --> 00:14:23
			notice, they can never come out in
the light in the open and said, We
		
00:14:23 --> 00:14:27
			apprentice. This is our belief.
They may touch upon it here and
		
00:14:27 --> 00:14:31
			there. sneak it in. Oh, the
perennial. You know, they never
		
00:14:31 --> 00:14:35
			will never say here's the
penniless athlete. Here's our
		
00:14:35 --> 00:14:40
			data. Let's debate it. Let's
discuss it. Okay. All right. So
		
00:14:40 --> 00:14:44
			the good job there by Yaqeen for
putting that out there. You can
		
00:14:44 --> 00:14:47
			get it just go to it. You want to
link it maybe?
		
00:14:48 --> 00:14:52
			Are all religions, the same? Islam
and the false promise of
		
00:14:52 --> 00:14:53
			perennialism.
		
00:14:54 --> 00:14:57
			And this was published a couple of
days ago. All right. Well done.
		
00:14:59 --> 00:14:59
			Honestly, there's a
		
00:15:00 --> 00:15:03
			There are only a few things that I
would say. This is one of the few
		
00:15:03 --> 00:15:07
			things I would say that the
tolerance level for it is very
		
00:15:07 --> 00:15:10
			low. It's very low tolerance level
for this nonsense.
		
00:15:11 --> 00:15:15
			And and the fact that you try to
sneak into this summit community
		
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			never come out in the open. And
then you've somehow got the
		
00:15:18 --> 00:15:22
			sympathy of Dr. Ahmad who somehow
got the sympathy of Sheikh Hamza
		
00:15:22 --> 00:15:25
			Yusuf and they, you know, helped
you along and open the door for
		
00:15:25 --> 00:15:31
			you, and neither other coming into
different regular normal, or they
		
00:15:31 --> 00:15:35
			say, normative Sunni operations
and conferences and teaching as if
		
00:15:35 --> 00:15:39
			this is like just a regular,
acceptable scholarship when it's
		
00:15:39 --> 00:15:43
			far from that. I have to say that
far from that. But hey, you know,
		
00:15:43 --> 00:15:47
			one thing good about zaytuna
college, it's all for everything's
		
00:15:47 --> 00:15:50
			up for critique, right? As long as
you bring knowledge, and you bring
		
00:15:50 --> 00:15:55
			a fair critique, good. And so
that's they they're accepting of
		
00:15:55 --> 00:15:57
			that, which is why I say it
knowing that they're not going to
		
00:15:57 --> 00:16:01
			take it personally. Because when
you become a college open up for
		
00:16:01 --> 00:16:03
			fair critique, that's exactly what
we gave