Shadee Elmasry – Bilal Abdul Kareems UNFILTERED View on al-Jolani and the New Syria
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The speaker discusses the struggles of political actors and the importance of not pursuing political goals. They suggest watching and following the situation, not trying to get in trouble, and not trying to force others to do the right thing. The need for agents to be patient and tolerant is emphasized, along with the importance of not trying to force others to do the wrong thing.
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Al-Jawlani himself, you had reported on him,
and this question says negatively, but he has
apparently had many changes, he's a young man,
so has your opinion of him changed?
No.
And is it true that you had reported
about, maybe you don't want to say this,
because, and you could feel free to just
tell me to skip the question, but what
was your opinion on him in the past,
and why hasn't it changed?
I'm not that Battlefield's success attained the extensive
experiences that I've had, and I'm going to
say this clearly, and I want everybody to
understand, Abu Muhammad al-Jawlani is a person
just like me and you, and he makes
mistakes, some big ones, big, big mistakes, and
I didn't hesitate to call those out, and
I can't not hesitate to call those out
in the future.
I wouldn't say that Abu Muhammad al-Jawlani
is my favorite person, because he's not, but
I'm sure I'm not his favorite person either,
but I will tell you one thing, if
he's going to do the right thing, I'll
support him, and it doesn't get more complicated
than that.
If he's not going to do the right
thing, I'll try to advise him, if he
continues to not do the right thing, I'll
oppose him, and I think that's the way
it's been.
That's that conditional support based on a condition
you can never go wrong with.
When people are political actors, you're not backing
the individual, you're backing their action, and this
action you're going to support, this action you're
not going to support.
This isn't like knowledge of transmission, where I
say, yes, this individual is trustworthy, this one
isn't.
These are actions.
If they're going to take the right actions,
you support that action.
If they're taking the wrong actions, you don't
support that action.
Do you want to go in further on
your past experiences with him at all?
At Muhammad Jolani, I didn't like the way
he managed his justice system, didn't like it
at all, didn't like it one bit, and
I felt that that was one of the
things that was holding us back.
Now, you asked me, have I changed my
opinion, and I said to you, unequivocally, no.
Why?
Because when I see that those changes are
being made, then it's all good.
I can't be hypocritical and just to say,
hey, you know what, because I want to
see the table and everything.
I say, what are you talking about?
I didn't say anything bad about him in
the past.
No, I did say bad things about him
in the past.
I don't want to say good, bad things
about him in the future, so I'm making
dua, hoping that he will do the right
thing, and if he does, like I said,
I'm going to support him, and I don't
care who doesn't like that, but if he's
not going to do the right thing, then
as his brother in Islam, then I got
to hold his hands.
I got to say, come on, I can't
be like that, man.
You got to do it this way, and
if that doesn't work, then I got to
get some scholars to say, go talk to
him, and if that doesn't work, then we
got to tell the ummah, tell Jolani to
chill, and if that doesn't work, we got
to oppose him.
But there are levels, and there are steps,
and right now, he's doing some good things,
so I think we should encourage him.
We should be alongside him doing those good
things, and hopefully, he'll say, hey, you know
what?
I'm feeling a power I haven't felt before.
The ummah's behind me, and if he starts
messing up, then the ummah should be advising
him, not opposing him, not looking to throw
him in the trash bin, but to say,
hey, listen, brother, man, we can't do it
like that.
We're Muslims.
We don't get down that way, and if
he's willing to listen and everything, then we
opened up a brand new chapter.
We have, we have, look, I want the
brothers to understand what's going on here.
The land of sham is under control of
the brothers.
That's you, that's historic.
We work together, and now somebody asked me,
Bilal, who would be your first choice to
be running the show after the fall of
Esed?
I probably wouldn't say, but he's there, and
since he is there, then we have to
say, hey, man, do the right thing, and
we'll be right behind you.
If you're not going to do the right
thing, we're going to advise you, and I
think that's the way that it's got to
be.
Is there a specific direction on where this
is headed?
Is it headed to be guided by Sharia,
or is it headed to become more of
a civil, just a regular civil state?
Regular, I mean by what we commonly know,
that is maybe partially allow some scholars to
talk, but not necessarily guided by Islam.
Is there any talk about which direction this
is going?
I think, well, of course, there's always a
lot of talk and everything, and the fighters
which are around the country are Islamic fighters,
but I think that maybe that's not the
conversation that I think that we should be
having.
I agree with that, actually.
Not dodging the question, but the conversation I
think that we should be having is as
follows.
What are we going to call for?
The days of just saying, well, let's see
what the government is going to do.
No, we don't want to see what the
government is going to do.
We want to let the government understand from
right now, there's going to be some Islam
up in there somewhere.
It's not going to be a situation where
it's like, well, is it going to be,
is it not going to be?
Well, oh, okay, we gave it our best
shot.
No, not after 14 years of fighting, not
after over a million people have been killed,
not after half the population has been displaced,
not after all that we've seen of these
different prisons.
We are going nowhere without a fight.
Doesn't make a difference who it is, what
your name is, how many Muhammad's you have
in your name.
It makes no difference.
If there isn't going to be justice and
Islam, then we will call for your removal.
It's simple as that.
We should be patient.
We will be tolerant, but we as a
people, we've come too far.
We've fought too hard.
We've gone through too much to turn back
now.
So we would say to Abu Muhammad Jolani
and to all of the others who are
in positions of leadership, we are your brothers
and sisters in Islam, and you're there to
spearhead this operation.
But brother, if you think that we're going
in the opposite direction, you are under a
very big misconception.
Very good answer.
And here, speaking also about that, the leadership,
who do they look for, for their Islamic
guidance and counsel?
Is that clear at all?
No.
I mean, the question's clear, but who they're
looking for, for their religious guidance, well, that's
not completely clear.
And we actually need more help from the
scholars.
I got to tell you, scholars ain't showing
up.
It's a part of them.
Now, I know some people are going to
not like what I'm saying right now, but
what the heck am I doing here?
I'm just a cat from New York.
How did I get in?
Where are the big shots?
Where are the ulama?
How come they're not here?
I don't mean to sit in Riyadh or
to sit in Kuwait and stuff like that
and to pass fatawa.
No, we need you to be here.
We need you to help us to understand
these affairs upfront and personal.
But you know what?
We're going through a period of weakness.
Why?
Because if you look at Saudi Arabia, yo,
you've got to ask us a question.
You've got Beyoncé or however you want to
say it, and you've got all these other
scantily clad women up on stage in Riyadh,
where are the sheikhs at?
Where are the ones that are quick to
come up and say, no, this is not
jihad in Palestine.
No, this is not jihad in Syria.
All right, brother, I understand what you're saying.
I don't agree with you, but you know
what?
I can't really hear your fatawa because the
music is too loud and you ain't saying
nothing.
I mean, I'm just saying what everybody around
the world knows.
They are acting very, very badly, and it's
time for them to pay some zakat on
that knowledge.
And if you think where you are, then
brother, I'm from New York.
I wasn't born in Syria and I came
here.
So that means you could leave Saudi Arabia,
where they got plenty of money, and go
someplace else where you can speak, go someplace
where you can benefit the people.
I mean, look, man, you know what?
When they're making kabbas with chicks dancing in
front of it, and the ulema aren't saying
anything, what kind of example are you setting?