Sami Hamdi – Gaza Resistance and Betrayal

Sami Hamdi
Share Page

AI: Summary ©

The Israeli peace movement is facing challenges, including a shift towards authoritative coverage and potential conflict leading to war. The movement is making modifications to advertising campaigns, including videos of Israeli soldiers holding their baby, and is focused on finding a way to address the conflict. The physical bleak of Islam is bleak, and the "rocky image" of Muslims is addressed. The speakers offer guidance on how to make a difference, emphasizing the importance of honoring Muslims and finding a way to address the physical bleak.

AI: Summary ©

00:00:00 --> 00:00:04
			Now, many have speculated that
this required a great degree of
		
00:00:04 --> 00:00:08
			planning. The humiliation for
Netanyahu is that these beasts and
		
00:00:08 --> 00:00:11
			animals, as his interior minister
described them, have launched a
		
00:00:11 --> 00:00:15
			most unprecedented attack.
Israelis could not believe. They
		
00:00:15 --> 00:00:18
			were stunned that this ragtag
group of Palestinians, from their
		
00:00:18 --> 00:00:22
			perspective, could inflict such a
damage on Israel let the batteries
		
00:00:22 --> 00:00:25
			die on the phone, so that when we
go in and ethnically cleanse,
		
00:00:25 --> 00:00:29
			there'll be nobody to see it. Is
there a hope in this very bleak
		
00:00:29 --> 00:00:33
			time, hundreds of 1000s of people
are watching your videos. But why
		
00:00:33 --> 00:00:34
			are they watching your videos?
		
00:00:38 --> 00:00:42
			But inhumane aggression by which
Israel treats Palestinians is
		
00:00:42 --> 00:00:46
			known to everyone who possesses an
ounce of justice. This excludes,
		
00:00:46 --> 00:00:50
			of course, Western nations for
whom, apparently, history began
		
00:00:50 --> 00:00:54
			last Saturday. However, they are
very aware that the colonial
		
00:00:54 --> 00:00:58
			outposts they set up in the Middle
East is * bent on extracting as
		
00:00:58 --> 00:01:02
			much land as possible to
accommodate racists, Americans and
		
00:01:02 --> 00:01:07
			Europeans, they are well aware
that in the process, Israel slowly
		
00:01:07 --> 00:01:10
			squeezes Palestinians and of the
daily humiliations that trigger
		
00:01:10 --> 00:01:15
			happy border guards and the
maiming and the murder, they know
		
00:01:15 --> 00:01:19
			all of this yet remain death to
the cries they give the murderous
		
00:01:19 --> 00:01:22
			State weapons of war, instruments
of torture and diplomatic cover.
		
00:01:23 --> 00:01:27
			Just this past week, the main
political parties on both sides of
		
00:01:27 --> 00:01:30
			the Atlantic were falling over
each other to give Israel the
		
00:01:30 --> 00:01:36
			green light in an age of impunity,
Israel has a free pass. But what
		
00:01:36 --> 00:01:41
			lay behind the events of last
week, and what can we expect in
		
00:01:41 --> 00:01:45
			the coming weeks from the regional
and international actors to help
		
00:01:45 --> 00:01:49
			us untangle political issues? We
once again invite onto the
		
00:01:49 --> 00:01:53
			thinking Muslims? Sami Hamdi. Sami
Hamdi is the managing director of
		
00:01:53 --> 00:01:56
			the international interests and a
Middle East commentator. Sami
		
00:01:56 --> 00:02:00
			Hamdi, Assalamu alaikum.
Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh. Thank
		
00:02:00 --> 00:02:03
			you for having me. Mohammed, it's
great to have you with us once
		
00:02:03 --> 00:02:09
			again. Well, Sammy, let's start
with Hamas' surprise attack last
		
00:02:09 --> 00:02:13
			Saturday. Now, many have
speculated that this required a
		
00:02:13 --> 00:02:17
			great degree of planning, and
there is some speculation that
		
00:02:17 --> 00:02:21
			maybe there was some international
hand at play and some fingers the
		
00:02:21 --> 00:02:27
			Wall Street Journal point towards
Iran. Now I note that the
		
00:02:27 --> 00:02:30
			Americans, I think it was the
Secretary of State and Jake
		
00:02:30 --> 00:02:36
			Sullivan also suggested that Iran
didn't have a direct hand in the
		
00:02:36 --> 00:02:40
			attacks on Saturday, but the
speculation still remains. I mean,
		
00:02:40 --> 00:02:46
			do you think Iran had a role in
the events on Saturday? I think
		
00:02:46 --> 00:02:49
			that when it comes to the role of
Iran, I think the first thing to
		
00:02:49 --> 00:02:51
			note is that the Wall Street
Journal did come out, and it did
		
00:02:51 --> 00:02:54
			say that there was an Iranian
involvement. And the sentence that
		
00:02:54 --> 00:02:57
			it used was that Iran had given
the green light to Hamas to to
		
00:02:57 --> 00:03:00
			embark on this particular attack.
The first thing that's worth
		
00:03:00 --> 00:03:03
			noting is it's not just Hamas that
is attacking. There are good 910,
		
00:03:03 --> 00:03:06
			different groups that are
attacking. And I think one of the
		
00:03:06 --> 00:03:09
			reasons that the Israelis are
emphasizing on Hamas is because if
		
00:03:09 --> 00:03:12
			you say it's a Hamas offensive
instead of a Palestinian
		
00:03:12 --> 00:03:15
			offensive, that it becomes very
easy to paint the whole thing as
		
00:03:15 --> 00:03:17
			if it's some sort of terrorist
operation, as opposed to a
		
00:03:17 --> 00:03:20
			Palestinian resistance towards an
apartheid regime that has
		
00:03:20 --> 00:03:24
			blockaded the Palestinians in that
Gaza open air prison to go back
		
00:03:24 --> 00:03:27
			towards the Iran I think that
first thing that's worth noting is
		
00:03:27 --> 00:03:30
			that the US deny Iranian
involvement. Iran itself is
		
00:03:30 --> 00:03:33
			denying that it's involved, and
even the Israelis are denying that
		
00:03:33 --> 00:03:36
			the Iranians are involved. And
when you consider it, there are
		
00:03:36 --> 00:03:40
			two reasons why, the first or the
two possible reasons why the first
		
00:03:40 --> 00:03:44
			is perhaps that the Iranians are
involved, and the Americans and
		
00:03:44 --> 00:03:48
			the Israelis are very keen to
prevent this escalation from
		
00:03:48 --> 00:03:51
			becoming a region wide issue.
We've seen that Hezbollah in
		
00:03:51 --> 00:03:54
			lubnan has been showing some sort
of restraint, not trying to be
		
00:03:54 --> 00:03:57
			dragged into the particular
conflict. We've seen Turkey
		
00:03:57 --> 00:04:01
			Erdogan with a very toned down
messaging. I don't want to get too
		
00:04:01 --> 00:04:03
			involved in this, either the
Saudis. We don't. We want
		
00:04:03 --> 00:04:06
			restraint. We want it to be toned
down. We've seen that Iran
		
00:04:06 --> 00:04:10
			genuinely has not been trying to
encourage it too much in public,
		
00:04:10 --> 00:04:15
			or the like. The idea being that
if Iran is involved in helping the
		
00:04:15 --> 00:04:18
			Palestinians to plan it, perhaps
they didn't give the green light,
		
00:04:18 --> 00:04:22
			then the Israelis and the US don't
want this to go beyond the
		
00:04:22 --> 00:04:25
			confines of the current conflict,
and this is why they're
		
00:04:25 --> 00:04:28
			downplaying the role of Iran
publicly. The second scenario,
		
00:04:28 --> 00:04:31
			however, is that Iran has been
doing what it's always been doing,
		
00:04:31 --> 00:04:34
			which is helping to provide some
logistical support, some military
		
00:04:34 --> 00:04:38
			know how, or the like, and that
this is, quite frankly, a uniquely
		
00:04:38 --> 00:04:42
			Palestinian affair. The reality is
that the Palestinians don't need
		
00:04:42 --> 00:04:46
			an excuse to lash out at Israel.
Consider the context. Last week,
		
00:04:46 --> 00:04:48
			Netanyahu was at the United
Nations last week from the
		
00:04:48 --> 00:04:51
			recording of this podcast,
Netanyahu is at the United Nations
		
00:04:51 --> 00:04:55
			in the map that he held up of the
United Nations, he's completely
		
00:04:55 --> 00:04:59
			erased Palestine on the map. He
has Israel, and then he has Jordan
		
00:04:59 --> 00:04:59
			and Saudi Arabia and.
		
00:05:00 --> 00:05:03
			Like in the same breath that he
hold up, held up this map, he was
		
00:05:03 --> 00:05:06
			talking about normalization with
Saudi Arabia and how it would be
		
00:05:06 --> 00:05:10
			the greatest deal since the end of
the Cold War. Then the Israeli
		
00:05:10 --> 00:05:13
			ambassador to the UN in an
interview with can channel, which
		
00:05:13 --> 00:05:17
			is one of the Israeli channels, is
asked, Will Netanyahu, is right
		
00:05:17 --> 00:05:19
			wing government sign off on
normalization with Saudi Arabia,
		
00:05:20 --> 00:05:23
			implying that they wouldn't,
because there'll be concessions to
		
00:05:23 --> 00:05:26
			Palestinians. And the Israeli
ambassador responds and says,
		
00:05:26 --> 00:05:29
			normalization means the Arab
abandonment of the Palestinians.
		
00:05:29 --> 00:05:32
			And when the government realized
this, they'll know exactly what
		
00:05:32 --> 00:05:35
			decision they should be making.
The point here being is that in
		
00:05:35 --> 00:05:39
			this context of the build up, the
raids on Jenin as Netanyahu pushes
		
00:05:39 --> 00:05:42
			aggressively to try to annex the
West Bank, with Netanyahu sitting
		
00:05:42 --> 00:05:46
			with Erdogan for the first time in
the United Nations, and Erdogan
		
00:05:46 --> 00:05:49
			telling him, Look, I want a gas
pipeline. I want warmer ties. I
		
00:05:49 --> 00:05:52
			want us to be friends again. My
proof is, this is the first time
		
00:05:52 --> 00:05:56
			we're meeting since Erdogan came
to power in 2003 this is the first
		
00:05:56 --> 00:05:59
			time that we're sitting together.
Netanyahu was lulled into this
		
00:05:59 --> 00:06:03
			complacency that given that the
Muslim nations, or those who are
		
00:06:03 --> 00:06:07
			supposed to rescue Palestine are
now abandoning it, he wasn't
		
00:06:07 --> 00:06:10
			expecting this to take place. But
the point here is, what I'm saying
		
00:06:10 --> 00:06:14
			is that the Palestinians, in light
of this heavy pressure coming in
		
00:06:14 --> 00:06:17
			this sense of abandonment by many
of the Muslim nations, didn't need
		
00:06:17 --> 00:06:21
			Iran to give them a green light to
launch this offensive some will
		
00:06:21 --> 00:06:24
			say yes, but such an offensive
needs months to prepare. But
		
00:06:24 --> 00:06:27
			normalization talks with Saudi
Arabia have been ongoing for more
		
00:06:27 --> 00:06:30
			than a year. So if it takes one
year to plan the offensive, one
		
00:06:30 --> 00:06:33
			year from when Saudi Arabia have
hinted that they're going to
		
00:06:33 --> 00:06:38
			abandon the Palestinian cause, and
also, if you think that the Saudi
		
00:06:38 --> 00:06:42
			ambassador went to the Palestinian
Authority to discuss the
		
00:06:42 --> 00:06:45
			preparations for announcing
normalization of ties with Israel,
		
00:06:45 --> 00:06:49
			something that angered ordinary
Palestinians so much that they
		
00:06:49 --> 00:06:52
			prevented the Saudi ambassador
from going to pray in Al Aqsa. I
		
00:06:52 --> 00:06:56
			think that for the Palestinians,
the reality is that the explosive
		
00:06:56 --> 00:06:59
			nature of this attack by the
Palestinians, I know everybody
		
00:06:59 --> 00:07:03
			wants to focus on Hamas, but by
the Palestinians, because those
		
00:07:03 --> 00:07:05
			who are talking about it in the
media, like Hossein, the
		
00:07:05 --> 00:07:07
			ambassador, Mustafa baruti, they
are associated with the
		
00:07:07 --> 00:07:10
			Palestinian Authority, not with
Hamas, with whom the Palestinian
		
00:07:10 --> 00:07:13
			Authority have an issue with. But
the point here being is that the
		
00:07:13 --> 00:07:16
			Palestinians didn't need an excuse
to go. So it may well be Iran has
		
00:07:16 --> 00:07:20
			a role. If it has a role, Israel
doesn't believe it's a significant
		
00:07:20 --> 00:07:24
			or it wants to downplay that role.
But the second scenario, and I
		
00:07:24 --> 00:07:26
			think this is the more important
part, is the Palestinians didn't
		
00:07:26 --> 00:07:30
			need encouragement, and they have
shown an extraordinary
		
00:07:30 --> 00:07:34
			demonstration of their agency, and
reminded everybody that they still
		
00:07:34 --> 00:07:37
			exist, and they still have agency,
irrespective of political
		
00:07:37 --> 00:07:40
			developments which suggest that
perhaps their cause was dying at
		
00:07:40 --> 00:07:43
			one point. I mean, the last time
we spoke, we talked about Saudi
		
00:07:43 --> 00:07:49
			normalization. It just seemed to
us that the Palestinian role in
		
00:07:49 --> 00:07:53
			this crisis was somewhat being
downplayed, and they were now
		
00:07:53 --> 00:07:56
			subject to the tyranny of the
Israelis, and there was nothing
		
00:07:56 --> 00:07:59
			they could do about it. Do you
feel that, in a sense, the
		
00:07:59 --> 00:08:03
			Palestinian cause has now become
center stage in this crisis. Once
		
00:08:03 --> 00:08:07
			again, I think that one of the
biggest issues currently,
		
00:08:07 --> 00:08:10
			particularly with regards to
attempts to de escalate the
		
00:08:10 --> 00:08:15
			situation, is that Netanyahu has
been humiliated because Netanyahu
		
00:08:15 --> 00:08:18
			told the Israelis that as a result
of these normalization processes,
		
00:08:18 --> 00:08:22
			nobody would come to the rescue of
the Palestinians, and therefore
		
00:08:22 --> 00:08:25
			the Palestinians have no power.
And when Netanyahu raised that map
		
00:08:25 --> 00:08:28
			that we mentioned, when he erases
Palestine, it means that, now that
		
00:08:28 --> 00:08:31
			normalizations are taking place,
we can wipe out the Palestinians,
		
00:08:31 --> 00:08:33
			eventually we can cleanse them,
send them to Egypt or wherever,
		
00:08:33 --> 00:08:36
			whatever people are talking about
at this moment in time the
		
00:08:36 --> 00:08:38
			humiliation for Netanyahu, it
would have been better for in
		
00:08:38 --> 00:08:43
			Netanyahu perspective, if Saudi or
Taeko UE had provided help to the
		
00:08:43 --> 00:08:46
			Palestinians to fight, then he
could say that this is a regional,
		
00:08:46 --> 00:08:48
			international effort to come and
attack Israel, and we're
		
00:08:48 --> 00:08:52
			internationally under threat. The
humiliation for Netanyahu is that
		
00:08:52 --> 00:08:55
			these beasts and animals, as his
interior minister described them,
		
00:08:55 --> 00:08:58
			these people who are blockade in
open air prison, who have homemade
		
00:08:58 --> 00:09:02
			weapons, who are supremely
inferior, in his opinion, to the
		
00:09:02 --> 00:09:06
			Israelis, have launched a most
unprecedented attack and the
		
00:09:06 --> 00:09:09
			greatest threat to Israel since
1973
		
00:09:10 --> 00:09:16
			put it into context, this is the
first time since 1948 that the
		
00:09:16 --> 00:09:19
			Palestinians have been able to
take land back from the Israelis.
		
00:09:19 --> 00:09:22
			They've been able to take the land
that was taken from them violently
		
00:09:22 --> 00:09:26
			by the Israelis, even if they
don't hold on to that land. That,
		
00:09:26 --> 00:09:30
			in itself, is unprecedented, and
it's this is the reason why the
		
00:09:30 --> 00:09:34
			Israelis declared war, a state of
war for the first time since 1973
		
00:09:35 --> 00:09:38
			some people would be thinking, But
wait, Gaza's been bombarded and
		
00:09:38 --> 00:09:40
			the like. But Israel hasn't
actually declared a state of war
		
00:09:40 --> 00:09:44
			when it's bombarded Gaza in the
past, the extent of the threat
		
00:09:44 --> 00:09:46
			that these Palestinians, who were
supposed to have been abandoned,
		
00:09:46 --> 00:09:49
			who were supposed to be inferior,
who were supposed to be lacking in
		
00:09:49 --> 00:09:53
			capabilities and technology, meant
that Netanyahu has had to declare
		
00:09:53 --> 00:09:58
			a state of war. And there was this
sense of the confusion in the
		
00:09:58 --> 00:09:59
			first 24 hours and 48
		
00:10:00 --> 00:10:03
			Hours over how to handle it, and
the confusion was because the
		
00:10:03 --> 00:10:06
			Israelis could not believe. They
were stunned that this ragtag
		
00:10:06 --> 00:10:10
			group of Palestinians, from their
perspective, that this ragtag
		
00:10:10 --> 00:10:13
			group of Palestinians could
inflict such a damage on Israel.
		
00:10:13 --> 00:10:16
			So this is why, when you ask the
question about the agency of the
		
00:10:16 --> 00:10:16
			Palestinians,
		
00:10:18 --> 00:10:23
			I think it's less political agency
in the sense that the Palestinians
		
00:10:23 --> 00:10:27
			have to be talked to, or the like,
and more, an agency of being able
		
00:10:27 --> 00:10:32
			to ruin, spoil and impose
themselves on anything that
		
00:10:32 --> 00:10:34
			doesn't guarantee their rights, or
anything that doesn't respect
		
00:10:34 --> 00:10:36
			them. In the words of King
Abdullah of Jordan, the
		
00:10:36 --> 00:10:39
			Palestinians have demonstrated
that you can't just fly over
		
00:10:39 --> 00:10:42
			Palestine and make a deal that's
going to condemn them or the like.
		
00:10:42 --> 00:10:45
			I think the Palestinians have
reminded everybody that they're
		
00:10:45 --> 00:10:48
			there, that they have agency. And
this is why, and this is why we
		
00:10:48 --> 00:10:51
			also talk about the war of
narratives. This is why Israel is
		
00:10:51 --> 00:10:55
			keen on framing it as Hamas versus
Israel. Because if you assert that
		
00:10:55 --> 00:10:59
			it's Hamas versus Israel, then the
US and Israel can say that we
		
00:10:59 --> 00:11:01
			don't talk to terrorist group.
We're not going to be talking to
		
00:11:01 --> 00:11:05
			the Palestinians even after this
de escalation takes place. But
		
00:11:05 --> 00:11:08
			when you say it's the
Palestinians, and this is why it
		
00:11:08 --> 00:11:11
			was a welcome breath of fresh air
to see members of the Palestinian
		
00:11:11 --> 00:11:14
			Authority also defending the
Palestinian front. And the idea of
		
00:11:14 --> 00:11:18
			people saying it was a
mobilization from the river to the
		
00:11:18 --> 00:11:22
			sea, suggesting from West Bank and
from and from Gaza, I think that
		
00:11:22 --> 00:11:26
			the saying it's a Palestinian
offensive means that the
		
00:11:26 --> 00:11:29
			Palestinian agency in any
diplomatic settlement, means that
		
00:11:29 --> 00:11:31
			the Americans are now aware that
if they want to pursue
		
00:11:31 --> 00:11:34
			normalization or peace, as they're
calling it, remember, Biden was
		
00:11:34 --> 00:11:37
			deprioritizing the region and
outsourcing policy to Brett McGurk
		
00:11:37 --> 00:11:39
			and some of these others. The
Palestinians are reminding
		
00:11:39 --> 00:11:42
			everybody, you can't go over our
heads. You have to talk to us. And
		
00:11:42 --> 00:11:46
			that in itself, is a mighty
victory that has left Netanyahu
		
00:11:46 --> 00:11:50
			floundering to try to find a way
to de escape in a manner in which
		
00:11:50 --> 00:11:53
			he will not have to recognize that
political agency. Now, one news
		
00:11:53 --> 00:11:59
			that came out this past week was
that the Egyptians argue they had
		
00:11:59 --> 00:12:04
			notified had told the Israelis
that a something was brewing in
		
00:12:04 --> 00:12:08
			Gaza and had forewarned them of a
possible attack, yet Netanyahu
		
00:12:08 --> 00:12:14
			government ignored those calls.
Can you give me your view on that?
		
00:12:14 --> 00:12:19
			It seems that, I mean, I think I'm
right in saying that some Israeli
		
00:12:19 --> 00:12:24
			defense sources have today or
yesterday, have accepted that they
		
00:12:24 --> 00:12:28
			were given this tip off, and maybe
they didn't take it very
		
00:12:28 --> 00:12:33
			seriously. What does that tell us
about how the Israelis may be
		
00:12:33 --> 00:12:37
			viewed for Palestinians? And maybe
there is a a feeling that
		
00:12:37 --> 00:12:40
			potentially, they allowed this to
happen. What's your view on that,
		
00:12:41 --> 00:12:45
			I think that CC's relationship
with Israel is a complicated one
		
00:12:45 --> 00:12:47
			that suggests that I'm going to
justify it, but I'm not what I
		
00:12:47 --> 00:12:51
			mean a complicated one is that the
Wall Street Journal, in the early
		
00:12:51 --> 00:12:53
			years of CC's reign published a
headline, I cannot remember the
		
00:12:53 --> 00:12:57
			year. It might be 2015 2016 but
you can search it on Google, the
		
00:12:57 --> 00:13:02
			sentence that a CC's blockade of
Gaza is even worse than Israel's,
		
00:13:02 --> 00:13:05
			and this was the words of some of
the officials. The idea being that
		
00:13:05 --> 00:13:08
			Sisi, in his pursuit for
international recognition for his
		
00:13:08 --> 00:13:11
			coup over Mohamed Morsi was
democratically elected, was trying
		
00:13:11 --> 00:13:15
			to align himself and show himself
to be valuable to American foreign
		
00:13:15 --> 00:13:19
			policy in the region. And part of
that was trying to provide or
		
00:13:19 --> 00:13:23
			trying to prevent access via the
Rafah border. For context,
		
00:13:23 --> 00:13:26
			Mubarak, even if the border was
closed, used to turn a blind eye
		
00:13:26 --> 00:13:29
			to the tunnels underneath Gaza.
The suggestion was that Sisi was
		
00:13:29 --> 00:13:32
			destroying even those tunnels. In
recent years, they've been
		
00:13:32 --> 00:13:36
			suggesting that Sisi has relaxed
and eased up on this. The second
		
00:13:36 --> 00:13:39
			point that is worth noting is that
there is confusion as to whether
		
00:13:39 --> 00:13:44
			Egypt told Israel that there is a
major offensive coming, or whether
		
00:13:44 --> 00:13:48
			Egypt told Israel that they
shouldn't be complacent over the
		
00:13:48 --> 00:13:52
			security risks, that their
normalization of ties doesn't mean
		
00:13:52 --> 00:13:55
			that the Palestinian issue is
going to be quiet, and that in
		
00:13:55 --> 00:13:59
			fact, there are Netanyahu approach
to ignoring the Palestinians is
		
00:13:59 --> 00:14:01
			going to result in a security
threat or the like. There are
		
00:14:01 --> 00:14:06
			reports. There is a huge
difference of opinion. I know it
		
00:14:06 --> 00:14:09
			sounds different Egypt, but I'm
saying what's being reported.
		
00:14:09 --> 00:14:12
			There is confusion as to whether
the Egyptians said there is a
		
00:14:12 --> 00:14:16
			major offensive coming and the
Gazans are planning something, so
		
00:14:16 --> 00:14:20
			be careful, or whether the
Egyptians said to Netanyahu, who's
		
00:14:20 --> 00:14:23
			been very arrogant in recent times
in his dealing with the
		
00:14:23 --> 00:14:26
			Palestinians, whether Egyptians
said to Netanyahu, Netanyahu, the
		
00:14:26 --> 00:14:28
			Palestinian cause, cannot be
ignored in your in your
		
00:14:28 --> 00:14:32
			normalization talks with Saudi we
counsel you that you should take
		
00:14:32 --> 00:14:36
			the Palestinians more seriously,
or else they will revolt and they
		
00:14:36 --> 00:14:39
			will cause a shock. And I think
those are two very distinct
		
00:14:39 --> 00:14:42
			things, because one suggests
ultimate treachery in that I sell
		
00:14:42 --> 00:14:46
			my brother out and I won't try to
warn the Israelis that when the
		
00:14:46 --> 00:14:50
			other suggests would be a very
normal diplomatic cable that the
		
00:14:50 --> 00:14:53
			King of Jordan has been saying,
that Erdogan has been saying, that
		
00:14:53 --> 00:14:55
			everybody else has been saying,
which is, you can't ignore the
		
00:14:55 --> 00:14:58
			Palestinians in any settlement
that you make with normalization
		
00:14:58 --> 00:14:59
			or the like, having said.
		
00:15:00 --> 00:15:03
			That the reason why it's such a
big topic to talk about is because
		
00:15:03 --> 00:15:10
			it shows you how far Egypt has
fallen with regards to its stance
		
00:15:10 --> 00:15:12
			regarding the Palestinian issue in
the eyes of public opinion,
		
00:15:13 --> 00:15:16
			Mubarak, for example, or let's go
even before Abdel Nasser, for
		
00:15:16 --> 00:15:20
			example, launched a war. He said,
For the sake of Palestine, perhaps
		
00:15:20 --> 00:15:24
			67 was for the sake of Palestine
73 Anwar Sadat launched the war to
		
00:15:24 --> 00:15:26
			retake the Sinai Peninsula, which
he lost, which the Egyptians lost
		
00:15:26 --> 00:15:30
			in 1967 but the Egyptians can
claim that we fought for the sake
		
00:15:30 --> 00:15:34
			of the Palestinian brothers or the
like Mubarak. Even though there
		
00:15:34 --> 00:15:37
			was or Sadat signed the
normalization peace treaty, or the
		
00:15:37 --> 00:15:40
			like Mubarak never really
developed on it. You could not say
		
00:15:40 --> 00:15:44
			that there was really warm ties
between Mubarak and the Israelis.
		
00:15:44 --> 00:15:47
			For context, people might say,
What do you mean? Look at the
		
00:15:47 --> 00:15:49
			flights between Istanbul and Tel
Aviv. They don't compare at all. I
		
00:15:49 --> 00:15:52
			don't think there are any flights
between Tel Aviv and Cairo, for
		
00:15:52 --> 00:15:55
			example, but, but the point here
being is Mubarak at least, used to
		
00:15:55 --> 00:15:58
			allow protests in support of
Palestine, whereas Sisi perhaps
		
00:15:58 --> 00:16:01
			has been limiting them a bit more.
I think the fact that people
		
00:16:01 --> 00:16:04
			believe that it's possible that
Sisi could have sold out the
		
00:16:04 --> 00:16:07
			Palestinians and warned Netanyahu,
or tried to warn Netanyahu, shows
		
00:16:07 --> 00:16:10
			how little people now think of
Egypt with regards to it stands
		
00:16:10 --> 00:16:13
			for Palestine however, to finish
on this point, I will say there's
		
00:16:13 --> 00:16:15
			a difference between telling the
Israelis that the Palestinians are
		
00:16:15 --> 00:16:18
			going to attack next week, and
between telling the Israelis that
		
00:16:18 --> 00:16:21
			if you continue on your course,
there's going to be An explosion
		
00:16:21 --> 00:16:24
			of Palestinians, which I think any
Tom Dick and Harry on the street
		
00:16:24 --> 00:16:26
			would have been able to tell
Netanyahu. So you don't believe
		
00:16:26 --> 00:16:30
			there's any possibility that
Netanyahu realize an attack of
		
00:16:30 --> 00:16:35
			some sort, maybe not the gravity
that it turned out to be. But an
		
00:16:35 --> 00:16:39
			attack was coming, and he turned a
blind eye to it, in a way to
		
00:16:40 --> 00:16:45
			resolve his domestic problems. I
think that it's possible that the
		
00:16:45 --> 00:16:48
			Egyptians did tell him that the
Palestinians were going to attack.
		
00:16:48 --> 00:16:51
			I gave two scenarios, primarily
because we don't have the proof of
		
00:16:51 --> 00:16:54
			either. And the Israelis are not
being clear about it either, and
		
00:16:54 --> 00:16:57
			the Egyptians, when they said it,
or when the report came out, it
		
00:16:57 --> 00:17:00
			seems the Egyptians are quite
proud of having warned Netanyahu
		
00:17:00 --> 00:17:03
			that some security risk was coming
in, but I don't think the
		
00:17:03 --> 00:17:07
			Egyptians would have been proud of
telling Netanyahu that the
		
00:17:07 --> 00:17:09
			Palestinians were attacking next
week, which is why I think the
		
00:17:09 --> 00:17:13
			scenario, the second scenario, may
be more likely. If you ask me what
		
00:17:13 --> 00:17:16
			I believe, I'm not sure. I think
both scenarios are very plausible,
		
00:17:16 --> 00:17:19
			but I think that Netanyahu
ignoring the security threat would
		
00:17:19 --> 00:17:23
			be in line with how he perceived
the situation, how the Americans
		
00:17:23 --> 00:17:25
			perceived the situation. I'm
sitting with Erdogan. I'm sitting
		
00:17:25 --> 00:17:29
			with Bin Salman. I'm sitting with
Bin Zayed. I'm talking to the
		
00:17:29 --> 00:17:32
			Muslim leaders. Azerbaijan is
raising my flag, and they are
		
00:17:32 --> 00:17:35
			celebrating our alliance against
Iran or the like. If you are
		
00:17:35 --> 00:17:37
			Netanyahu, why are you going to
worry about the Palestinians?
		
00:17:37 --> 00:17:39
			Who's going to help the
Palestinians Saudi Arabia is
		
00:17:39 --> 00:17:44
			talking to Iran, the hot spots in
Syria and Iran are supposed to be
		
00:17:44 --> 00:17:47
			cooling down at some point. If
you're Netanyahu and somebody
		
00:17:47 --> 00:17:50
			tells you that there's a security
that coming from Palestine, you're
		
00:17:50 --> 00:17:52
			not immediately going to say
wallahis, or he doesn't say
		
00:17:52 --> 00:17:55
			Wallahi but you're not immediately
going to say the Palestinians. Oh,
		
00:17:55 --> 00:17:58
			this is a serious threat. It may
be. Oh, whatever. I don't think
		
00:17:58 --> 00:18:01
			they can do anything because of
and that's why. Like, bear in mind
		
00:18:01 --> 00:18:04
			when we use the word
unprecedented, Israelis are saying
		
00:18:04 --> 00:18:07
			the word unprecedented is because
they believe that even if the
		
00:18:07 --> 00:18:10
			Palestinians were to attack, they
would never have been able to
		
00:18:10 --> 00:18:12
			achieve what they achieved in this
latest attack, in taking
		
00:18:12 --> 00:18:15
			settlements and managing to send
rockets all the way to Ben Gurion
		
00:18:15 --> 00:18:18
			Airport and having the airport
closed two hours before, three
		
00:18:18 --> 00:18:21
			hours before I got here for the
recording the reports, Ben Gurion
		
00:18:21 --> 00:18:23
			Airport is now closed and planes
are being 10 planes are being
		
00:18:23 --> 00:18:26
			turned away, more than 72 hours
after the conflict has started,
		
00:18:26 --> 00:18:30
			and more than 72 hours after Gaza
has been bombarded and pounded. So
		
00:18:30 --> 00:18:35
			I think the scale of it, I think
not even the ordinary Palestinians
		
00:18:35 --> 00:18:38
			would have been able to envisage
it. So how would you have expected
		
00:18:38 --> 00:18:43
			Netanyahu to take it seriously?
There is an interesting analysis
		
00:18:43 --> 00:18:46
			of you, Sammy, when I when I hear
you speak, because you're a
		
00:18:46 --> 00:18:50
			political analyst, and I see a lot
of political analysis, pretty bad
		
00:18:50 --> 00:18:54
			political analysis on social
media, actually on on YouTube,
		
00:18:55 --> 00:19:01
			you follow the events, you try to
make sense of the events, and when
		
00:19:01 --> 00:19:06
			you can't, you give options. That
seems to me to be a very
		
00:19:06 --> 00:19:10
			particular way of of of doing
political analysis, but also a
		
00:19:10 --> 00:19:15
			very granular way of of conducting
political analysis. How important
		
00:19:15 --> 00:19:21
			is it to have a real understanding
of the events and this and the
		
00:19:22 --> 00:19:25
			issues almost on a daily basis, to
be able to form opinions. Because
		
00:19:25 --> 00:19:29
			I get the impression most people,
Muslims, even non Muslims,
		
00:19:29 --> 00:19:31
			journalists, don't really have
that. Sometimes
		
00:19:33 --> 00:19:36
			I think that, look, politics is,
in my opinion, politics is a
		
00:19:36 --> 00:19:39
			science of human relations in that
the same way that a human being
		
00:19:39 --> 00:19:43
			feels anger, jealousy, fear,
concern, despair, is the same way
		
00:19:43 --> 00:19:46
			that states feel because states
are run by human beings. What I
		
00:19:46 --> 00:19:49
			mean is in this context, is the
same way you feel uncertainty
		
00:19:49 --> 00:19:51
			about an event that is unfolding.
Is the same way states feel
		
00:19:51 --> 00:19:55
			uncertainty. And I think the easy
example to give in the context of
		
00:19:55 --> 00:19:57
			the topic that we're talking about
is to look at the way the
		
00:19:57 --> 00:19:59
			statements have developed over the
past 72 hours.
		
00:20:00 --> 00:20:02
			Hours with regards to what has
been happening in Palestine. Let's
		
00:20:02 --> 00:20:05
			start, for example, with the
Turkish position, and we'll work
		
00:20:05 --> 00:20:07
			from there. We'll go through the
geopolitical powers. Turkey
		
00:20:07 --> 00:20:10
			starts, for example, when Erdogan
comes out, Erdogan gives an
		
00:20:10 --> 00:20:13
			unprecedented statement with
regards to what's happening in
		
00:20:13 --> 00:20:16
			Palestine. What I mean is, we all
know, over the past decade,
		
00:20:16 --> 00:20:19
			whenever Erdogan used to talk
about Israel, it used to be Israel
		
00:20:19 --> 00:20:23
			is a terrorist state. Israel is
violating international law.
		
00:20:23 --> 00:20:27
			Israel is conducting genocide
Israel. He compared Netanyahu to
		
00:20:27 --> 00:20:30
			Hitler. This time, he gave an
unprecedented statement in which
		
00:20:30 --> 00:20:33
			he didn't go after Israel.
Instead, he called for restraint
		
00:20:33 --> 00:20:36
			on all parties and tried to
present Turkey as a diplomatic
		
00:20:36 --> 00:20:39
			effort, which suggests that
Erdogan, who I'm convinced his
		
00:20:39 --> 00:20:42
			convictions, lie much closer with
the Palestinians, far closer with
		
00:20:42 --> 00:20:45
			the Palestinians and the Israelis.
Which means that Erdogan is in a
		
00:20:45 --> 00:20:49
			position whereby he doesn't want
to offend Netanyahu. Netanyahu,
		
00:20:49 --> 00:20:54
			put yourself in erdogan's position
in the g20 summit the UAE, Saudi
		
00:20:54 --> 00:20:57
			and Israel announced the Middle
East corridor that's going to go
		
00:20:57 --> 00:20:59
			India. It's going to cross a short
journey on the sea. Then it's
		
00:20:59 --> 00:21:03
			going to land in the UAE, go to
Saudi, then go to Jordan, then
		
00:21:03 --> 00:21:07
			Israel and into Europe. Turkey is
bypassed completely. This will
		
00:21:07 --> 00:21:10
			have sweeping economic
consequences for Turkey. Erdogan
		
00:21:10 --> 00:21:13
			is trying to get the Israelis to
say, don't go via Jordan and
		
00:21:13 --> 00:21:18
			Saudi. Go via Turkey. We make more
sense geographically. Erdogan is
		
00:21:18 --> 00:21:21
			very aware that these plans are
becoming advanced, and he wants to
		
00:21:21 --> 00:21:24
			deter the Israelis from doing it,
because it will completely change
		
00:21:24 --> 00:21:27
			the landscape of the region.
Erdogan is also keen, as a result
		
00:21:27 --> 00:21:31
			of his economic crisis, to build a
joint pipeline with the Israelis.
		
00:21:31 --> 00:21:34
			Remember, for the for those who
don't, who don't remember, the
		
00:21:34 --> 00:21:37
			reason Erdogan got involved in
Libya in the first place was
		
00:21:37 --> 00:21:40
			because if you open a map of the
Mediterranean, you will see that
		
00:21:40 --> 00:21:46
			Egypt, Syria, Cyprus, Greece and
Israel, all of them have the
		
00:21:46 --> 00:21:49
			ability to put a chokehold on
Turkish maritime interests.
		
00:21:49 --> 00:21:52
			Erdogan announced the unilateral
border with Libya that cuts
		
00:21:52 --> 00:21:56
			through all of them in order to
break that maritime chokehold, and
		
00:21:56 --> 00:21:58
			then sent his troops to Libya to
rescue the internationally
		
00:21:58 --> 00:22:02
			recognized government to ensure
that no deal can be struck without
		
00:22:02 --> 00:22:05
			Turkey's permission. When Turkey
bullied the rest of the states
		
00:22:06 --> 00:22:10
			into establishing a maritime zone
favorable to Turkey, Turkey
		
00:22:10 --> 00:22:14
			changed its approach to one that
is more come let's sit down and
		
00:22:14 --> 00:22:17
			talk, and part of that is about
Israel as well. He tried to invite
		
00:22:17 --> 00:22:20
			the Israeli energy minister, and
that was ruined by what happened
		
00:22:20 --> 00:22:23
			in Gaza afterwards. But the point
is, Erdogan believes that as a
		
00:22:23 --> 00:22:26
			result of the tenuous economic
situation and the chokehold that
		
00:22:26 --> 00:22:29
			almost formed in the
Mediterranean, and I had to break
		
00:22:29 --> 00:22:32
			by force, by the by actors, and I
won't be able to break it by force
		
00:22:32 --> 00:22:34
			again, because they'll know that
it's coming. No one believed
		
00:22:34 --> 00:22:37
			Erdogan would intervene at the
time, he wants to talk to the
		
00:22:37 --> 00:22:40
			Israelis to build a gas pipeline,
to establish shared economic
		
00:22:40 --> 00:22:43
			interest to ensure that threat
never emerges again. So when the
		
00:22:43 --> 00:22:46
			Palestinians are now revolting
against the Israelis, Erdogan says
		
00:22:46 --> 00:22:49
			to himself, I'm now in advanced
talks with Netanyahu. I invited
		
00:22:49 --> 00:22:52
			him to Ankara. The only reason he
didn't come to Ankara was because
		
00:22:52 --> 00:22:56
			he had to go to hospital because
he had a heart problem. And people
		
00:22:56 --> 00:22:59
			I have enough credit with the
Muslim world to talk to Netanyahu
		
00:22:59 --> 00:23:02
			about my economic interest, people
will say, I'm doing it for
		
00:23:02 --> 00:23:04
			weakness or whatever. I don't want
to offend Netanyahu over an
		
00:23:04 --> 00:23:07
			offensive that might achieve
nothing. So this was Erdogan
		
00:23:07 --> 00:23:12
			stanzibing About restraint. 72
hours later, Erdogan starts gives
		
00:23:12 --> 00:23:16
			a speech in which he completely
changes his rhetoric and goes back
		
00:23:16 --> 00:23:19
			to what we're used to hearing from
Erdogan that Israel is considering
		
00:23:19 --> 00:23:23
			to put genocide. Why does the US
send the warship? This is Israel's
		
00:23:23 --> 00:23:26
			fault, and this is all Israel's
fault, and it's the occupation. Is
		
00:23:26 --> 00:23:29
			because you don't give rights to
the Palestinians. The reason that
		
00:23:29 --> 00:23:33
			has changed is because Erdogan
fears that the Palestinians might
		
00:23:33 --> 00:23:37
			achieve something via this
offensive and he doesn't want the
		
00:23:37 --> 00:23:40
			historians to write that Turkey
was on the wrong side of what is
		
00:23:40 --> 00:23:42
			unfolding. The point here being,
is that when you're looking at
		
00:23:42 --> 00:23:45
			scenarios or the like, then going
back to your question, Erdogan
		
00:23:45 --> 00:23:48
			said, Look, if the Palestinians
fail, I haven't offended
		
00:23:48 --> 00:23:52
			Netanyahu. And if the Palestinians
look like they have momentum, I
		
00:23:52 --> 00:23:54
			will come out to the station that
says that I support them. And if
		
00:23:54 --> 00:23:58
			the Israelis push even further,
then I'll mobilize the OIC and the
		
00:23:58 --> 00:24:01
			like. You leave your options open.
So the political analyst, when he
		
00:24:01 --> 00:24:04
			gives the scenarios, in effect,
he's doing exactly what the
		
00:24:04 --> 00:24:07
			policymaker is doing. Consider
Saudi Arabia. Mohammed bin Salman
		
00:24:08 --> 00:24:11
			spoke to Fox News and told them,
we are getting closer every single
		
00:24:11 --> 00:24:16
			day to normalization of ties with
Israel, while bin Salman is
		
00:24:16 --> 00:24:19
			talking about that, I won't let go
of the Palestinians. Reuters
		
00:24:19 --> 00:24:23
			publishes an exclusive in which it
says that the Saudi officials, or
		
00:24:23 --> 00:24:26
			they said regional officials. But
the sentiment here's the Saudis.
		
00:24:27 --> 00:24:31
			The consensus is Saudis have said
this, that bin Salman has said to
		
00:24:31 --> 00:24:36
			the Americans and said to the
Israelis, that I that, look, if
		
00:24:36 --> 00:24:40
			you can give me a NATO style
security agreement and you give me
		
00:24:40 --> 00:24:44
			nuclear technology, I'm willing to
accept that and say we can talk
		
00:24:44 --> 00:24:47
			about a Palestinian state. And one
thing that was noteworthy is the
		
00:24:47 --> 00:24:50
			White House statement went from
talking about a Palestinian state
		
00:24:51 --> 00:24:56
			to preserving a negotiations over
a two state solution, suggesting a
		
00:24:56 --> 00:24:59
			shift in the rhetoric that's
taking place. Mohammed bin Salman
		
00:24:59 --> 00:24:59
			in the statement.
		
00:25:00 --> 00:25:03
			Is during this period of talk
about normalization, stopped using
		
00:25:03 --> 00:25:07
			the word til he stopped using the
word occupation, stopped using the
		
00:25:07 --> 00:25:10
			word colonization to describe
Israel. In one of the statements,
		
00:25:10 --> 00:25:14
			he puts Israeli between quotation
marks. Israel between suggesting
		
00:25:14 --> 00:25:18
			the quotation marks is for him to
say, I don't recognize them, but
		
00:25:18 --> 00:25:21
			Israeli is to say to the Israelis,
look, I'm not calling you an
		
00:25:21 --> 00:25:25
			occupation or whatever anymore.
That's So Bin Salman, in the build
		
00:25:25 --> 00:25:27
			up, has been using that language,
but in the statement, when the
		
00:25:27 --> 00:25:31
			Palestinians suddenly took back
land, Bin Salman came out in a
		
00:25:31 --> 00:25:36
			strong statement to say, we
condemn Kuwait al the forces of
		
00:25:36 --> 00:25:40
			the occupation, the forces of the
colonizer. Bin Salman has not
		
00:25:40 --> 00:25:44
			overnight, decided to abandon
normalization. He hasn't overnight
		
00:25:44 --> 00:25:47
			decided to stop talking to
Netanyahu. Something else has
		
00:25:47 --> 00:25:51
			triggered that change. Milton man
has said to himself that I have a
		
00:25:51 --> 00:25:54
			population that is overwhelmingly
sympathetic to the Palestinians.
		
00:25:54 --> 00:25:56
			I'm already being accused of
selling them out, and I'm not in a
		
00:25:56 --> 00:25:59
			position where I can be seen to be
selling them out. I have to push
		
00:25:59 --> 00:26:02
			this narrative that I'm arguing
for a Palestinian
		
00:26:03 --> 00:26:07
			state to preserve myself from
criticism that I'm against public
		
00:26:07 --> 00:26:09
			opinion and Bin Salman tends to
buckle much quicker than bin
		
00:26:09 --> 00:26:13
			Zayed. Let me release a statement
saying colonization, but rokav
		
00:26:13 --> 00:26:18
			newspaper, Saudis national
newspaper, on the front page, I
		
00:26:18 --> 00:26:21
			won't celebrate the Palestinians,
so on the front page they've got
		
00:26:21 --> 00:26:24
			bin Salman the day after. So on
the front page they had bin Salman
		
00:26:24 --> 00:26:28
			on the top left, celebrating
economic development. On the top
		
00:26:28 --> 00:26:32
			right, they had a picture of King
Salman about another particular
		
00:26:32 --> 00:26:36
			issue. And on the bottom corner,
they have the destruction of Gaza.
		
00:26:36 --> 00:26:38
			And they said there is a
destruction taking place in Gaza
		
00:26:38 --> 00:26:41
			when all the other media was
talking about unprecedented
		
00:26:41 --> 00:26:47
			Palestinian offensive,
unprecedented since 1948 and
		
00:26:47 --> 00:26:50
			palaces are making gains. The
Saudi national newspaper was
		
00:26:50 --> 00:26:54
			suggesting that the Palestinians
have messed up, and Saudi tutorati
		
00:26:54 --> 00:26:58
			now is in a schizophrenia. There
are commentators who are saying,
		
00:26:58 --> 00:27:00
			we told you that we need a
Palestinian solution, and there
		
00:27:00 --> 00:27:04
			are commentators who are saying
that, with a normalization is not
		
00:27:04 --> 00:27:06
			dead, and the Palestinians are the
reason, or the cause, for the
		
00:27:06 --> 00:27:10
			conflict. Vincent man has now
three media fronts, one that calls
		
00:27:10 --> 00:27:13
			Israel a colonizer, one that says
that you have to give Palestinians
		
00:27:13 --> 00:27:16
			a solution, and one that says that
Palestinians are the problem.
		
00:27:16 --> 00:27:19
			Depending how the situation goes,
Vincent man will adopt one
		
00:27:19 --> 00:27:21
			particular course of action the
UAE.
		
00:27:23 --> 00:27:27
			Bin Zayed is quiet in the
beginning the Palestinian
		
00:27:27 --> 00:27:29
			offensive is taking place. Bin
Zayed doesn't release a statement
		
00:27:29 --> 00:27:32
			immediately, which means that bin
Salman is monitoring the
		
00:27:32 --> 00:27:35
			situation. Why does it mean that?
Because if bin Zayed is a close
		
00:27:35 --> 00:27:38
			friend of the Israelis, and the
Israelis are demanding solidarity,
		
00:27:38 --> 00:27:41
			and everybody's coming out in
solidarity with the Israelis. If
		
00:27:41 --> 00:27:43
			bin Zayed was supremely
comfortable with normalization, he
		
00:27:43 --> 00:27:46
			would have easily come out with a
statement supporting the Israelis.
		
00:27:47 --> 00:27:51
			24 hours later, Abdullah bin Zayed
on Twitter, tweets, I've just had
		
00:27:51 --> 00:27:54
			an extensive phone call with
Anthony Blinken. Two hours after
		
00:27:54 --> 00:27:57
			that tweet, the UAE released a
statement about two hours, three
		
00:27:57 --> 00:28:01
			hours, the timings might be a bit
off, but shortly after that
		
00:28:01 --> 00:28:05
			statement, the UAE releases a
statement in which it says, We
		
00:28:05 --> 00:28:08
			condemn the escalation caused by
Hamas and the Palestinians,
		
00:28:08 --> 00:28:11
			essentially blaming the
Palestinians, which implies that
		
00:28:11 --> 00:28:13
			Blinken must have said to them,
please come out and support the
		
00:28:13 --> 00:28:17
			Israelis or the line. UAE gets
lambasted on social media,
		
00:28:17 --> 00:28:21
			treachery and the like the UAE
tries to point to Abdul Khaliq
		
00:28:21 --> 00:28:24
			Abdullah and other commentators
who are overwhelmingly in favor of
		
00:28:24 --> 00:28:28
			Palestine, suggesting that UAE has
lifted restrictions on expressing
		
00:28:28 --> 00:28:30
			support for Palestine. These are
commentators within these are
		
00:28:30 --> 00:28:33
			commentators when the Abdul Khaliq
Abdullah was tweeting and
		
00:28:33 --> 00:28:35
			everybody was stunned. Everybody
said, Wait a minute. Abdul Khaliq
		
00:28:35 --> 00:28:38
			Abdullah is in the UAE tweeting
such brazen support for the
		
00:28:38 --> 00:28:41
			Palestinians, blaming the
Israelis, which means that Abdul
		
00:28:41 --> 00:28:44
			Khaliq Abdullah, who knows the
rules in the UAE, is aware that
		
00:28:44 --> 00:28:47
			there is a green light from above
that allows people to express
		
00:28:47 --> 00:28:50
			solidarity for Palestine. Which
means that bin Zayed is very wary
		
00:28:50 --> 00:28:53
			and monitoring the situation. If
anybody accuses UAE of selling
		
00:28:53 --> 00:28:55
			out, look at my commentators.
They're all defending the
		
00:28:55 --> 00:28:58
			Palestinians or the line. But even
after the statement, when they get
		
00:28:58 --> 00:29:02
			lambasted that they have
criticized the Palestinians and
		
00:29:02 --> 00:29:05
			condemned the Palestinians. Bin
zay then announces 20 million in
		
00:29:05 --> 00:29:08
			aid for the Palestinians. So you
can see the UAE now has options.
		
00:29:08 --> 00:29:11
			I've appeased Blinken with a
statement blaming the
		
00:29:11 --> 00:29:14
			Palestinians. I've tried to
appease Arab public opinion by
		
00:29:14 --> 00:29:17
			letting prominent UAE commentators
defend the Palestinians, and I'm
		
00:29:17 --> 00:29:20
			offering aid and to deliver aid to
the Gazans to show that I can
		
00:29:20 --> 00:29:23
			leverage my normalization of ties
in favor of the Palestinians. I've
		
00:29:23 --> 00:29:27
			left three scenarios open. If the
Palestinians win, I can show I was
		
00:29:27 --> 00:29:29
			with them. If the Palestinians
lose, I can show the Israelis I
		
00:29:29 --> 00:29:32
			was with them. There is a
development of this, even with
		
00:29:32 --> 00:29:35
			regards to the US. So we talk
about the US position. We talk
		
00:29:35 --> 00:29:38
			only the Muslim positions, and I
won't go in for everybody, but I
		
00:29:38 --> 00:29:41
			hope people are keeping up with
this. But I would like to ask you
		
00:29:41 --> 00:29:44
			about the US and the Western
position general. Because from
		
00:29:44 --> 00:29:48
			afar, at least when I look at the
Western stance towards it, it
		
00:29:48 --> 00:29:53
			seems pretty monolithic. It seems
like they're squarely behind the
		
00:29:53 --> 00:29:57
			Israelis, and nothing has really
changed. They're pretty much, you
		
00:29:57 --> 00:29:59
			know, even even this past day,
where the.
		
00:30:00 --> 00:30:04
			Israelis have now announced and
have have taken steps in in
		
00:30:04 --> 00:30:08
			tightening the blockade around
Gaza the Western countries, both
		
00:30:08 --> 00:30:13
			sides of the Atlantic. You know,
bipartisan support for Israel.
		
00:30:13 --> 00:30:17
			There's a green light for them to
do whatever they want and to to
		
00:30:17 --> 00:30:21
			seek their defense by any means. I
mean, even Keir Starmer yesterday
		
00:30:21 --> 00:30:25
			at the Labor Party Conference was
was not going well. You know, this
		
00:30:25 --> 00:30:29
			is a human rights lawyer. It was
pretty clear that Israel has the
		
00:30:29 --> 00:30:33
			right to defend itself. So from
afar, it seems like the Western
		
00:30:33 --> 00:30:35
			perspective hasn't changed. I
mean, from your reading, what, how
		
00:30:35 --> 00:30:40
			do you see? Let's break this into
three, three. We'll look at the EU
		
00:30:40 --> 00:30:44
			and the US, and we'll see the how
internally, there is deep division
		
00:30:44 --> 00:30:48
			over how to approach it. Wow.
Okay, first of all, the problem
		
00:30:48 --> 00:30:51
			with public statements is they
don't often reflect the sentiment
		
00:30:51 --> 00:30:54
			behind the scenes, right? And we
saw an example of that last week
		
00:30:54 --> 00:30:58
			when a US military base struck
down a Turkish drone. A Turkish
		
00:30:58 --> 00:31:02
			drone flew too close Turkey is
bombarding the Kurdish populations
		
00:31:02 --> 00:31:05
			in Syria. It's bombarding they
will be upset with that there's
		
00:31:05 --> 00:31:09
			bombarding the PKK and YPG bases
and the SDF and the like, because
		
00:31:09 --> 00:31:12
			they're worried about that
existential threat that these
		
00:31:12 --> 00:31:16
			armed separatist groups might pose
to Turkey. Yeah, of course, these
		
00:31:16 --> 00:31:19
			groups are allies of the US. Us
openly supports them, and us help
		
00:31:19 --> 00:31:22
			them to revamp their image from
PKK and YPG to SDF, Syrian
		
00:31:22 --> 00:31:25
			Democratic Forces. There's a video
of a general who says it was a
		
00:31:25 --> 00:31:28
			master stroke to include
democratic in there. It made it
		
00:31:28 --> 00:31:31
			easier. A rebrand, a rebranding.
Yes, the US struck down the drone,
		
00:31:32 --> 00:31:36
			the Turkish drone. Yeah, the Turks
will live it. It's it looks public
		
00:31:36 --> 00:31:40
			like a real slap of the hand in
public, the US justified the
		
00:31:40 --> 00:31:43
			downing of the drone in private,
Lloyd Austin, called the Turks,
		
00:31:43 --> 00:31:46
			and said, Listen, like, really, it
was a decision that was taken by
		
00:31:46 --> 00:31:49
			the commander at the base. It got
too close. They warned it. The
		
00:31:49 --> 00:31:52
			drone came back. Don't let this
ruin the ties. And Turkey
		
00:31:52 --> 00:31:55
			continued to bombard Syria. The
like, suggesting the Americans
		
00:31:55 --> 00:31:59
			said, Look, this is a one off in
public. We are defending it in
		
00:31:59 --> 00:32:02
			private. We are sending this
image, that's an example of how
		
00:32:02 --> 00:32:04
			public and private don't
necessarily coincide one another.
		
00:32:04 --> 00:32:06
			And I think that's a natural human
thing in that when your
		
00:32:06 --> 00:32:09
			subordinate does something wrong,
defend your subordinate in public
		
00:32:09 --> 00:32:12
			and lambast them in private and
give them the hair dryer dry
		
00:32:12 --> 00:32:15
			treatment, because to lambast him
in public would undermine your
		
00:32:15 --> 00:32:18
			whole leadership and your whole
authority and the like. Starting
		
00:32:18 --> 00:32:22
			from this premise, if we take a
recent thing, we'll go into the
		
00:32:22 --> 00:32:25
			US, because the US is a bit more
committed. But let's start with
		
00:32:25 --> 00:32:25
			the EU,
		
00:32:26 --> 00:32:29
			another example. So the EU, Oliver
valehey, if I pronounce his name
		
00:32:29 --> 00:32:35
			correctly, Commissioner, announced
that the EU would cut all aid to
		
00:32:35 --> 00:32:38
			Palestine, that the horrific
crimes in His Word of the
		
00:32:38 --> 00:32:42
			Palestinians and the horrific
scenes in Palestine and Israel.
		
00:32:42 --> 00:32:45
			Means we're going to cut off all
aid to the Palestinians, in direct
		
00:32:45 --> 00:32:49
			contravention of international
law. Everybody said, this is the
		
00:32:49 --> 00:32:52
			EU position, and this is the
French position. Then Joseph
		
00:32:52 --> 00:32:56
			Burrell comes out a few hours
later and he says, We condemns.
		
00:32:56 --> 00:32:59
			And he goes, We're not going to
stop aid to the Palestinians. A
		
00:32:59 --> 00:33:02
			high representative of foreigners.
The high represents foreigners.
		
00:33:02 --> 00:33:06
			Foreign Affairs, a major, powerful
voice. Yeah. Then Antonio
		
00:33:06 --> 00:33:09
			Guterres, head of United Nation,
says that it's immoral to stop the
		
00:33:09 --> 00:33:13
			aid going to the Palestinians. Von
der Leyen puts the Israeli flag on
		
00:33:13 --> 00:33:16
			the EU parliament. So you have one
who says, I'm going to cut aid,
		
00:33:16 --> 00:33:19
			one who says I'm not going to cut
aid, and one who says, who need
		
00:33:19 --> 00:33:22
			restraint. And the other puts the
Israeli flag on the EU building in
		
00:33:22 --> 00:33:25
			public, it looks like they're
family with Israel. But these when
		
00:33:25 --> 00:33:30
			when something spills over into
the public, it may look little in
		
00:33:30 --> 00:33:32
			public, but to get to that
spillover means there are deep
		
00:33:32 --> 00:33:35
			divisions behind the scenes in
terms of how to approach this
		
00:33:35 --> 00:33:38
			issue. Spain said it would not
vote for the cutting of aid,
		
00:33:38 --> 00:33:42
			suggesting that the European Union
is not in unison with regards to
		
00:33:42 --> 00:33:46
			what's happening with Israel, and
members of the European Parliament
		
00:33:46 --> 00:33:49
			are lambasting von der Leyen,
telling her you are unelected. You
		
00:33:49 --> 00:33:52
			have no right to speak on behalf
of the EU, with regards to what's
		
00:33:52 --> 00:33:56
			happening in Israel and Palestine.
So from afar, it looks like the EU
		
00:33:56 --> 00:34:00
			is firmly pro Israel. But when you
look at the details, when you look
		
00:34:00 --> 00:34:03
			at the statements. When you look
at the spillover, it's abundantly
		
00:34:03 --> 00:34:05
			clear that it cannot be said that
the EU is firmly in line with
		
00:34:05 --> 00:34:08
			Israel, even the Keir Starmer
interview that you talked about,
		
00:34:08 --> 00:34:11
			and I watched it because I was
stunned by the comment. You can
		
00:34:11 --> 00:34:15
			feel Keir Starmer. It feels like
he's walking on eggshells, trying
		
00:34:15 --> 00:34:19
			to calculate every word, terrified
that he might make a mistake and
		
00:34:19 --> 00:34:22
			suffer the consequence of what
happened with Jeremy Corbyn, which
		
00:34:22 --> 00:34:24
			has led people to believe that
Keir Starmer is a robot in his
		
00:34:24 --> 00:34:27
			stance and it might not actually
reflect his time. I'm not
		
00:34:27 --> 00:34:30
			defending Keir Starmer. I think
Keir Starmer is the worst of the
		
00:34:30 --> 00:34:33
			labor leaders, particularly with
regards to Muslim interests of
		
00:34:33 --> 00:34:37
			life. Now let's go to the US. So
the US comes in. Put yourself in
		
00:34:37 --> 00:34:39
			Biden's situation. One of the
great things about the political
		
00:34:39 --> 00:34:43
			risk industry is a lot of the
analysis is putting yourself in
		
00:34:43 --> 00:34:45
			the places of policymakers, but
without the responsibility or
		
00:34:45 --> 00:34:49
			consequence of decisions. Biden
has an election coming up. Biden
		
00:34:49 --> 00:34:51
			has been flagging that
normalization will be the
		
00:34:51 --> 00:34:55
			highlight of his presidency. He's
failed on the Iran deal. He's
		
00:34:55 --> 00:34:59
			failed on Syria, he's failed on
Libya, he's failed on Sudan. He's
		
00:34:59 --> 00:34:59
			failed.
		
00:35:00 --> 00:35:02
			With in his relations with Europe.
He's failed with regards to
		
00:35:02 --> 00:35:05
			Russia. He's struggling on the
issue of Ukraine. Biden wants the
		
00:35:05 --> 00:35:08
			success, and that success was
supposed to be the normalization
		
00:35:08 --> 00:35:11
			of ties with Saudi Arabia. Some
people have said that maybe this
		
00:35:11 --> 00:35:15
			was a all set up by the Israelis.
This analysis might answer some of
		
00:35:15 --> 00:35:19
			that. Biden is on the verge. Bin
Salman is telling him that I'm
		
00:35:19 --> 00:35:22
			willing to compromise on the
Palestinian issue. And part of my
		
00:35:22 --> 00:35:24
			job is to sit with diplomats
privately, and I advise
		
00:35:24 --> 00:35:27
			governments. I advise foreign
ministries, European foreign
		
00:35:27 --> 00:35:30
			ministries. I've advised the State
Department before and the like,
		
00:35:30 --> 00:35:33
			and in private meetings, and I'm
not allowed to say who or with
		
00:35:33 --> 00:35:36
			who, the diplomats have all said
that the Saudis never talked to
		
00:35:36 --> 00:35:39
			them about Palestinians. They have
no plan for the Palestinians. And
		
00:35:39 --> 00:35:44
			in the words of a particular
diplomat that the Saudis sort of
		
00:35:44 --> 00:35:46
			said to one delegation, you write
for us what you want for the
		
00:35:46 --> 00:35:49
			Palestinians, and we'll go with
it. But the point here being is
		
00:35:49 --> 00:35:52
			that Biden has been told by bin
Salman Palestine is not a
		
00:35:52 --> 00:35:57
			priority. Biden has the issue of
getting the deal through Congress.
		
00:35:57 --> 00:36:00
			Congress won't vote for NATO style
supreme through Saudi Arabia. So
		
00:36:00 --> 00:36:03
			Reuters suggests that what Biden
is going to do is to move the
		
00:36:03 --> 00:36:07
			Fifth Fleet, or send another
fleet, in the same way they do for
		
00:36:07 --> 00:36:10
			Bahrain, where they don't have an
official NATO style agreement, but
		
00:36:10 --> 00:36:13
			the Fifth Fleet is designed to
protect Bahrain from Iran. They'll
		
00:36:13 --> 00:36:16
			send a fleet that is ordered to
protect Saudi at all costs. So
		
00:36:16 --> 00:36:19
			Biden is already making the
concession. On that part, Biden,
		
00:36:19 --> 00:36:21
			the Israelis have privately
agreed. Again, according to
		
00:36:21 --> 00:36:25
			Reuters and Axios, they've agreed
to allow nuclear technology for
		
00:36:25 --> 00:36:29
			Saudi Arabia. So the second demand
for Bin Salman is beginning to be
		
00:36:29 --> 00:36:32
			filled. The idea being that
everything was proceeding and
		
00:36:32 --> 00:36:36
			moving, and Netanyahu in the UN
was flaunting his map and saying
		
00:36:36 --> 00:36:39
			that we're on the cusp of
normalization with Saudi Arabia.
		
00:36:39 --> 00:36:43
			People keep looking at the Saudi
statements, I don't think that
		
00:36:43 --> 00:36:47
			Israel or Biden would be so loud
about negotiations if they didn't
		
00:36:47 --> 00:36:51
			feel they were proceeding in a
manner that was moving forward. So
		
00:36:51 --> 00:36:54
			the US when it sees this
escalation, what do you think
		
00:36:54 --> 00:36:57
			Biden's immediate reaction is?
Biden's immediate reaction is not
		
00:36:57 --> 00:37:00
			go and bomb them and go and do
what you have to do. Palestinians,
		
00:37:00 --> 00:37:04
			Biden's immediate reaction is, my
whole foreign policy prize with
		
00:37:04 --> 00:37:07
			elections bearing down on me,
coming down is is about to be
		
00:37:07 --> 00:37:10
			ruined. So in that situation,
let's go with it. We're talking
		
00:37:10 --> 00:37:13
			scenario planning. What do you
think Biden's conversation with
		
00:37:13 --> 00:37:16
			Netanyahu is, it's Netanyahu, I
beg you, I have an election. Come
		
00:37:16 --> 00:37:19
			on, Netanyahu, like don't let this
escalate. Don't let this go to
		
00:37:19 --> 00:37:22
			board. And Netanyahu says to them,
I can't I've been humiliated. I've
		
00:37:22 --> 00:37:25
			I need to do something to the
Palestinians. I have to pound
		
00:37:25 --> 00:37:28
			them. Biden says, How long do you
need? It? Can't go on for too
		
00:37:28 --> 00:37:32
			long. Maybe I can allow it here
and there. Now, Biden's initial
		
00:37:32 --> 00:37:35
			reaction is, let's try to get some
sort of de escalation. And one of
		
00:37:35 --> 00:37:39
			the things worth noting is that
Blinken announced in a tweet that
		
00:37:39 --> 00:37:44
			he had spoken to his Turkish
counterpart, and in the tweet, you
		
00:37:44 --> 00:37:46
			know how foreign ministers, they
have a team who run their Twitter
		
00:37:46 --> 00:37:49
			accounts. They put the tweet, they
say, we talk to our counterpart
		
00:37:49 --> 00:37:53
			about so and so, and we agreed on
the need for an immediate
		
00:37:53 --> 00:37:56
			whatever, in this case, ceasefire.
Blinken Twitter account posted a
		
00:37:56 --> 00:37:59
			tweet that said that we talked to
the Turkish foreign minister and
		
00:37:59 --> 00:38:04
			we agreed on the need for a swift
ceasefire. Within one hour, that
		
00:38:04 --> 00:38:07
			tweet came down. It was edited,
and Blinken said, we have ironclad
		
00:38:07 --> 00:38:12
			support for the Israelis, which
suggests that in the room where
		
00:38:12 --> 00:38:15
			Blinken sat with his team,
somebody said that we should
		
00:38:15 --> 00:38:18
			pursue ceasefire, and the other
person said, No, we shouldn't
		
00:38:18 --> 00:38:21
			pursue ceasefire, which suggests
Division of Policy. They're not
		
00:38:21 --> 00:38:24
			agreed with regards to the policy
of what's going on. So Biden now
		
00:38:24 --> 00:38:27
			is trying to rescue normalization,
talk of ceasefire, then reigning
		
00:38:27 --> 00:38:30
			back on ceasefire. Ask yourself,
why would they roll back on
		
00:38:30 --> 00:38:33
			ceasefire? It would be as a result
of talks with Israel. Why would
		
00:38:33 --> 00:38:36
			Netanyahu not want a ceasefire?
Because Netanyahu believes he's
		
00:38:36 --> 00:38:39
			been humiliated by the
Palestinians, and he badly needs
		
00:38:39 --> 00:38:41
			to crush them. Why? Because the
Israeli journalists domestically
		
00:38:41 --> 00:38:44
			are calling for his resignation.
Haaretz has a front page spread.
		
00:38:44 --> 00:38:47
			This is Netanyahu, so, and you're
building these scenarios. So Biden
		
00:38:47 --> 00:38:53
			went from oh my goodness, the
normalization deal is in jeopardy.
		
00:38:53 --> 00:38:56
			And then Biden sees Republican
candidates, we are firmly with
		
00:38:56 --> 00:39:00
			Israel, go and hit them. Lindsey
Graham says this is a religious
		
00:39:00 --> 00:39:03
			war, if you consider it has to be
a religious war against Muslims
		
00:39:03 --> 00:39:05
			that there can only be his
interpretation. Nikki Haley says,
		
00:39:05 --> 00:39:09
			Go and get them. Jordan Peterson,
somebody who I never understood
		
00:39:09 --> 00:39:12
			why Muslims really Raven and like
him a lot. Jordan business says,
		
00:39:12 --> 00:39:16
			give them *. Biden now sees
that the Republicans are coming
		
00:39:16 --> 00:39:20
			out heavily in favor of Israel.
Donald Trump. Donald Trump coming
		
00:39:20 --> 00:39:23
			in favor of Israel. Now he has to
outmatch them, because his prize
		
00:39:23 --> 00:39:26
			was supposed to be normalization.
He's livid that that prize has
		
00:39:26 --> 00:39:29
			been blown out of the water as of
the escalation. So he has to
		
00:39:29 --> 00:39:32
			adapt. He's seen the mood, so now
he changes his rhetoric. But the
		
00:39:32 --> 00:39:36
			point I'm making is, from far
away, it looks like that the US
		
00:39:36 --> 00:39:39
			resolve for Israel was rock solid
from the beginning. What I'm
		
00:39:39 --> 00:39:42
			trying to argue and what I think
happened is that Biden's stance
		
00:39:42 --> 00:39:46
			has evolved from the first hour he
received the news to now it's gone
		
00:39:46 --> 00:39:49
			from Netanyahu, please don't let
this go on. And now he's pressured
		
00:39:49 --> 00:39:53
			by the Republicans and Netanyahu
to continue supporting and I think
		
00:39:53 --> 00:39:55
			what's very interesting, and I
know I've gone on this, but I
		
00:39:55 --> 00:39:59
			think what's very interesting is
that the Americans sent an
		
00:39:59 --> 00:39:59
			aircraft carrier.
		
00:40:00 --> 00:40:03
			Area to Israel, but didn't say it
was to support the Israelis in
		
00:40:03 --> 00:40:05
			their attack against the
Palestinians. They said it was to
		
00:40:05 --> 00:40:08
			prevent other regional powers from
getting involved and taking
		
00:40:08 --> 00:40:12
			advantage of it. In other words,
they sent it in order. Biden wants
		
00:40:12 --> 00:40:15
			a guarantee that what's happening
is that Israel and Palestine will
		
00:40:15 --> 00:40:18
			fight each other. Iranians won't
get involved. Nobody else will get
		
00:40:18 --> 00:40:21
			involved. The Americans will be
careful not to get involved too
		
00:40:21 --> 00:40:24
			much, because what Biden wants is
to publicly show ironclad support
		
00:40:24 --> 00:40:28
			for the Israelis, while begging
the Qataris to try to come to some
		
00:40:28 --> 00:40:31
			sort of deal in which the hostages
are exchanged between Palestine
		
00:40:31 --> 00:40:34
			and Israel. The de escalation will
take place. Biden can claim that
		
00:40:34 --> 00:40:37
			he gave ironclad support to the
Israelis by sending Blinken to Tel
		
00:40:37 --> 00:40:41
			Aviv and giving the aircraft
carrier, while equally rescuing an
		
00:40:41 --> 00:40:44
			environment in which there might
be normalization of ties, because
		
00:40:44 --> 00:40:46
			the Saudis haven't yet called an
Arab League meeting. They're
		
00:40:46 --> 00:40:49
			supposed to be meet on the day
that we're hosting. But four days
		
00:40:49 --> 00:40:52
			into the conflict and still no
Arab League meeting. Somebody made
		
00:40:52 --> 00:40:56
			a joke on Twitter. I said that
Arab League meeting a meeting on
		
00:40:56 --> 00:40:58
			Wednesday. He said, Why so soon?
Why are they rushing to to meet
		
00:40:58 --> 00:41:01
			with Arab League but the point
here being is Saudi hasn't taken
		
00:41:01 --> 00:41:04
			any drastic steps. OIC hasn't had
an emergency summit. There's no
		
00:41:04 --> 00:41:07
			Iran Khan, for example, to come
out and in the way that he was
		
00:41:07 --> 00:41:10
			very trigger happy with the OIC,
you know, Palestine and Kashmir or
		
00:41:10 --> 00:41:13
			the like Erdogan, is very careful,
doesn't want to provoke too much.
		
00:41:13 --> 00:41:17
			Biden will say, look, yes, it was
a disaster for normalization, but
		
00:41:17 --> 00:41:21
			I've saved but the de escalation
has come about at a time in which
		
00:41:21 --> 00:41:25
			I can give ironclad support to
Israel and rescue the environment
		
00:41:25 --> 00:41:28
			for normalization. But the point
of all that I've said is
		
00:41:29 --> 00:41:33
			the suggestion is always that
stances don't shift. They shift
		
00:41:33 --> 00:41:37
			every single hour, depending on
the news. But here is where we
		
00:41:37 --> 00:41:39
			bring the Palestinians into it.
It's shifting because the
		
00:41:39 --> 00:41:43
			Palestinians are forcing the
shift. It's the Palestinians who
		
00:41:43 --> 00:41:46
			were supposed to have their cause.
Was supposed to be dying. They
		
00:41:46 --> 00:41:50
			were supposed to be irrelevant.
Their action is causing all of the
		
00:41:50 --> 00:41:55
			shifting. In Ankara, in Riyadh, in
Abu Dhabi, in Paris, in the UK, in
		
00:41:55 --> 00:41:59
			Washington, with Blinken, with
Biden, with the Republicans, the
		
00:41:59 --> 00:42:02
			Palestinians that we thought were
weak stuff. I never thought they
		
00:42:02 --> 00:42:04
			were weak, but other people might
have thought they were weak. Yeah,
		
00:42:04 --> 00:42:07
			the Palestinians, we thought had
no agency, are forcing all of
		
00:42:07 --> 00:42:10
			these policy makers to come up
with all these various different
		
00:42:10 --> 00:42:13
			scenarios. And that's why, going
back to your your question, and
		
00:42:13 --> 00:42:16
			I'll finish on this point in which
you said, you know, you're an
		
00:42:16 --> 00:42:19
			analyst who, if you don't know,
you give the scenarios, you give
		
00:42:19 --> 00:42:22
			the scenarios, because even the
decision makers themselves have
		
00:42:22 --> 00:42:25
			not made the decision, and the
scenarios will adapt according to
		
00:42:25 --> 00:42:27
			the situation. Hezbollah has not
gotten involved yet. There's
		
00:42:27 --> 00:42:30
			always these talks that Hezbollah
might cross the border. Hezbollah
		
00:42:30 --> 00:42:33
			might cross the border, but
Hezbollah hasn't. Ask yourself,
		
00:42:33 --> 00:42:36
			why? How do you understand these
rocket attacks across the border
		
00:42:36 --> 00:42:38
			from Lebanon too? The reality is
that there's news of rocket
		
00:42:38 --> 00:42:41
			attacks, but let's take, for
example, the rocket attack that
		
00:42:41 --> 00:42:46
			took place within the first 48
hours. Yeah, the 48 within the
		
00:42:46 --> 00:42:48
			first 48 hours. And people,
forgive me, it's been a rough
		
00:42:48 --> 00:42:52
			three days. Some of the timings
might be off, but there'll be
		
00:42:52 --> 00:42:57
			roundabout Hezbollah attacked what
is recognized as contested areas,
		
00:42:57 --> 00:43:01
			not Israel proper. Yeah. They
attacked contested areas. And the
		
00:43:01 --> 00:43:06
			reason they attacked contested
areas, in my opinion, is to send a
		
00:43:06 --> 00:43:09
			message to the Israelis, which is,
we don't want an all out conflict
		
00:43:09 --> 00:43:13
			with you. We don't want this to
spread to the Lebanese border. But
		
00:43:13 --> 00:43:16
			we can't be seen to be abandoning
Hamas and we can't be seen to be
		
00:43:16 --> 00:43:20
			abandoning the Palestinians. We
want to send you a message that
		
00:43:20 --> 00:43:23
			says, Please tone down in what
you're doing with the
		
00:43:23 --> 00:43:26
			Palestinians, but we're not ready
to fight you for it at this stage,
		
00:43:26 --> 00:43:29
			you haven't gone far enough, which
is why I think it's fascinating
		
00:43:29 --> 00:43:32
			that a ground offensive hasn't
happened yet despite 72 hours or
		
00:43:32 --> 00:43:35
			even longer into the conflict.
It's as if even the Israelis are
		
00:43:35 --> 00:43:38
			aware that we're pounding Gaza
with airstrikes, but we're not
		
00:43:38 --> 00:43:41
			sure what the reaction will be
with the ground offensive, because
		
00:43:41 --> 00:43:43
			a ground offensive would force
everybody would force everybody to
		
00:43:43 --> 00:43:46
			reconsider their options, so as if
everybody is sort of looking at
		
00:43:46 --> 00:43:49
			each other and saying, we're going
to allow this amount the
		
00:43:49 --> 00:43:52
			airstrikes, but not enough. And I
think Israel understood the
		
00:43:52 --> 00:43:56
			message, which is why they sent a
few flares. They sent a rocket
		
00:43:56 --> 00:43:59
			that killed two Hezbollah
soldiers. But even the Hezbollah
		
00:43:59 --> 00:44:01
			did not really react to the
killing of the two soldiers,
		
00:44:01 --> 00:44:04
			suggesting Hezbollah interpreted
it as an accident as opposed to an
		
00:44:04 --> 00:44:07
			actual attack. And the reason why
I mentioned all this is to show
		
00:44:07 --> 00:44:10
			that a lot of people want to talk
about this issue as if it's black
		
00:44:10 --> 00:44:16
			and white, but everybody involved,
including Netanyahu, has no idea
		
00:44:16 --> 00:44:19
			what's going to be coming in the
next few days, and everybody's
		
00:44:19 --> 00:44:22
			making decisions in a fog of war,
and everyone's trying to prevent
		
00:44:22 --> 00:44:26
			that escalation and try to pursue
a de escalation in a way that
		
00:44:26 --> 00:44:28
			suits their interests. So what's
amazing here is that the
		
00:44:28 --> 00:44:32
			Palestinians have, in effect,
upended the strategic
		
00:44:32 --> 00:44:36
			calculations, the long term
strategy, strategic thinking of
		
00:44:36 --> 00:44:39
			all of the powers, including the
United States. And they've have
		
00:44:39 --> 00:44:44
			to, they've had to put together
strategies and and and revise
		
00:44:44 --> 00:44:47
			those strategies depending on the
events and that that's pretty
		
00:44:47 --> 00:44:50
			amazing, actually, from, from what
you've you've said there, but, but
		
00:44:50 --> 00:44:53
			it's a huge victory. And one of
the things that is worth noting in
		
00:44:53 --> 00:44:56
			this part in the beginning of the
conflict, one of the reasons that
		
00:44:56 --> 00:44:59
			Israel is so adamant on the
narrative war, and why Netanyahu
		
00:44:59 --> 00:44:59
			is resist.
		
00:45:00 --> 00:45:03
			A de escalation at this moment in
time is because there's something
		
00:45:03 --> 00:45:06
			else that's major that the
Palestinians achieved, aside from
		
00:45:06 --> 00:45:11
			their agency here, which is that,
if you remember, in the first few
		
00:45:11 --> 00:45:15
			hours, and people were talking
about terrorists have crossed into
		
00:45:15 --> 00:45:18
			crossed into Israel, and they are
and then Al Jazeera published a
		
00:45:18 --> 00:45:21
			video, or showed a video, of the
Palestinian fighters with the
		
00:45:21 --> 00:45:24
			Jewish woman who is terrified and
she's holding her baby, and the
		
00:45:24 --> 00:45:28
			Palestinian
		
00:45:29 --> 00:45:34
			cover her, cover her and reassure
her and show her the humanity that
		
00:45:34 --> 00:45:38
			we have that the apartheid regime
doesn't have. When that video went
		
00:45:38 --> 00:45:42
			viral, people translated it and
went viral. I put just to give you
		
00:45:42 --> 00:45:46
			a content in terms of viral, I
only have about maybe 45,000
		
00:45:46 --> 00:45:50
			followers on Twitter or the like,
only sadly, compressing to others,
		
00:45:51 --> 00:45:55
			but within 24 hours, that
translation got to 1 million on
		
00:45:55 --> 00:45:58
			Omar bin Abdulaziz account. It got
to 8 million on somebody else's
		
00:45:58 --> 00:46:01
			account. It got to 2 million on
another person went through, it
		
00:46:01 --> 00:46:04
			went viral, because suddenly
people were like, wait a minute,
		
00:46:04 --> 00:46:07
			there's humanity here. And those
who've seen channel 12, that
		
00:46:07 --> 00:46:10
			Israeli settler, when she's
talking, and she says, They came
		
00:46:10 --> 00:46:12
			into my house, yeah, and they
said, Well, what did they do? What
		
00:46:12 --> 00:46:15
			did they do? And and she goes,
Well, the first thing you said to
		
00:46:15 --> 00:46:19
			me was, I won't harm you. I'm
Muslim, and I wanted a banana or
		
00:46:19 --> 00:46:23
			something. And she's and she says,
the statement, put me off. I won't
		
00:46:23 --> 00:46:26
			harm you because I'm Muslim. She
goes, it put me off. But I felt
		
00:46:26 --> 00:46:29
			suddenly at ease. And they walked
around the house for two hours.
		
00:46:29 --> 00:46:32
			One of them asked me for a banana,
and then they left. The thing that
		
00:46:32 --> 00:46:34
			the Israelis are panicking and why
they're not de escalating it, and
		
00:46:34 --> 00:46:38
			I know we'll go into it later on,
is that the image of the
		
00:46:38 --> 00:46:42
			Palestinians has transformed in
mainstream public opinion in the
		
00:46:42 --> 00:46:45
			beginning when all these
Palestinians, Muhammad, Al Quran,
		
00:46:46 --> 00:46:49
			you could sense the wave, even
amongst non Muslim audiences that,
		
00:46:49 --> 00:46:51
			wait a minute, wait, these
Palestinians actually have a
		
00:46:51 --> 00:46:54
			point. Why do they have to condemn
themselves when they have this
		
00:46:54 --> 00:46:56
			situation? And I'm seeing what the
fighters are look like. I'm not
		
00:46:56 --> 00:46:59
			saying that there are no
atrocities in war. War is a nasty,
		
00:46:59 --> 00:47:03
			nasty I come from. My maternal
side is an Algerian background.
		
00:47:03 --> 00:47:07
			The war for liberation saw huge
atrocities, horrific things on the
		
00:47:07 --> 00:47:10
			on the on the path to liberation.
I do think that it's interesting
		
00:47:10 --> 00:47:12
			that in law, generally, I studied
law at uni, there is this concept
		
00:47:12 --> 00:47:16
			of diminished responsibility,
where a victim is never held to
		
00:47:16 --> 00:47:18
			the same accountability as
somebody who is not a victim. I
		
00:47:18 --> 00:47:22
			think that's very important in
this context of Palestine. But the
		
00:47:22 --> 00:47:24
			point here being is that you are
marveling as well at how the
		
00:47:24 --> 00:47:27
			Palestinians are changing the
policy making considerations.
		
00:47:27 --> 00:47:29
			They've also changed the image,
and that's one of the reasons that
		
00:47:29 --> 00:47:32
			Israel feels not only have I been
humiliated by the Palestinians,
		
00:47:32 --> 00:47:37
			but they might actually be able to
rip the cover of my propaganda I
		
00:47:37 --> 00:47:39
			was telling the world these are
barbarians and these are animals,
		
00:47:39 --> 00:47:42
			and people are now seeing them as
magnanimous fighters. This is a
		
00:47:42 --> 00:47:45
			disaster. Let's tell the world
they beheaded 40 babies, for
		
00:47:45 --> 00:47:48
			example. Do you think that's
changing? I mean, today we've seen
		
00:47:48 --> 00:47:52
			this horrific story, you know,
which is just a made up story
		
00:47:52 --> 00:47:56
			about 40 babies that have been
beheaded in, you know, in a
		
00:47:56 --> 00:48:01
			village, in, in in, in southern
Israel. And the public opinion
		
00:48:01 --> 00:48:05
			seems to be shifting, especially
here in the West. Do you think the
		
00:48:05 --> 00:48:09
			Israelis are now coming together
and developing a more coherent
		
00:48:09 --> 00:48:13
			strategy to change that narrative?
First of all, let me rescue you
		
00:48:13 --> 00:48:16
			from the YouTube comments. When
you say southern Israel, you're
		
00:48:16 --> 00:48:19
			using it to make it easier for
people to identify on a map, not
		
00:48:19 --> 00:48:23
			because it's actually southern
Israel, yeah, so let's get that
		
00:48:23 --> 00:48:25
			aside, because I know people pick
up on every single sentence, yeah.
		
00:48:25 --> 00:48:27
			The second point that is worth
noting is that
		
00:48:28 --> 00:48:32
			I think that certainly over the
past 24 hours, I think that
		
00:48:32 --> 00:48:36
			mainstream media is having a very
deep debate within itself, was it
		
00:48:36 --> 00:48:41
			wise to bring these eloquent
Palestinians? But I think the
		
00:48:41 --> 00:48:43
			reason they brought them was
because they didn't know they were
		
00:48:43 --> 00:48:46
			eloquent. Bear in mind, there is,
this is a new generation of
		
00:48:46 --> 00:48:50
			Palestinians. They are tech savvy,
they speak English fluent, yeah,
		
00:48:50 --> 00:48:53
			and they're able to convey
themselves eloquently. This is, I
		
00:48:53 --> 00:48:55
			don't want to insult the previous
generations. They are very brave
		
00:48:55 --> 00:48:59
			generations. But there is a
consensus that this is quite
		
00:48:59 --> 00:49:03
			unprecedented, yeah, the idea that
you don't have to have a
		
00:49:03 --> 00:49:07
			translator now to to bring the
Palestinian view. When hosumot
		
00:49:07 --> 00:49:11
			came and shut down the presenter,
when she asked him to condemn
		
00:49:11 --> 00:49:15
			himself, and he says to her, Look,
200 Palestinians died last month.
		
00:49:15 --> 00:49:18
			You didn't bring me here. Five
Israelis die, and you drag me here
		
00:49:18 --> 00:49:20
			and you tell me to condemn myself,
or that I when those things went
		
00:49:20 --> 00:49:24
			viral, I think the media didn't
realize how eloquent these
		
00:49:24 --> 00:49:28
			Palestinians are. Even the guy
from Gaza on BBC, when he came, he
		
00:49:28 --> 00:49:31
			said, we have nothing to lose like
so I think the media sort of got
		
00:49:31 --> 00:49:34
			together again. I'm speculating,
but I think the media got together
		
00:49:34 --> 00:49:37
			and said, Wait a minute. We were
supposed to bring these people.
		
00:49:37 --> 00:49:39
			They tell themselves to give
balanced coverage. Yes, whatever.
		
00:49:39 --> 00:49:43
			Yeah, but it appears that our
coverage has been more favorable
		
00:49:43 --> 00:49:46
			to the Palestinians as a result of
these Palestinian guests. And
		
00:49:46 --> 00:49:48
			that's why it was quite
interesting that Nora Erekat, for
		
00:49:48 --> 00:49:51
			example, somebody who's worth
following on Twitter, a lawyer in
		
00:49:51 --> 00:49:54
			the US, she actually put out and
said that her three interviews
		
00:49:54 --> 00:49:57
			were suddenly canceled by CNN and
by some of these other media
		
00:49:57 --> 00:49:59
			outlets as well. Have you had
interviews that have been
		
00:49:59 --> 00:49:59
			canceled?
		
00:50:00 --> 00:50:03
			Good Sami, I've had a couple of
interviews that have been
		
00:50:03 --> 00:50:06
			canceled, but for me, it's but
with regards to this in
		
00:50:06 --> 00:50:10
			particular, I think that when it
comes to the media, I think that
		
00:50:10 --> 00:50:14
			it's less about being anti
Palestinian and more about the
		
00:50:14 --> 00:50:17
			pressure from the Israelis. I
think it's Israeli saying, Why are
		
00:50:17 --> 00:50:19
			you giving these people air time
where they are justifying
		
00:50:19 --> 00:50:21
			terrorism in their words? And I
think what made it really
		
00:50:21 --> 00:50:24
			difficult for the media is that
the guests who were coming on were
		
00:50:24 --> 00:50:27
			not Hamas, and a lot of them were
not even from Gaza. They were from
		
00:50:27 --> 00:50:29
			the West Bank, from the
Palestinian Authority, who are
		
00:50:29 --> 00:50:33
			known to have differences with
Hamas. When Mustafa baruti spoke
		
00:50:33 --> 00:50:36
			with fare Zakaria, for example,
Mustafa baruti from the
		
00:50:36 --> 00:50:39
			Palestinian Authority. And then,
of course, and then he ran for his
		
00:50:39 --> 00:50:42
			own presidential campaign
afterwards, Mustafa Baruch gave a
		
00:50:42 --> 00:50:45
			very eloquent account responding
to Fareed Zakaria, tobat
		
00:50:45 --> 00:50:49
			terrorism, and the response went
viral. I was seeing non Muslims
		
00:50:49 --> 00:50:53
			who in the past had supported
Israel saying this interview has
		
00:50:53 --> 00:50:55
			changed my perspective on what's
happening with regards to the
		
00:50:55 --> 00:50:58
			Palestinians. I think if you're a
media editor in chief, and I work
		
00:50:59 --> 00:51:03
			and you know, I work in media.
Yeah, I know that medias have
		
00:51:03 --> 00:51:05
			considerations, and sometimes
media want to push a particular
		
00:51:05 --> 00:51:08
			message, and they do that via
choosing good guests. I think when
		
00:51:08 --> 00:51:11
			the editorial team comes together,
they come and they sit and they
		
00:51:11 --> 00:51:13
			say, Hang on a second. These
Palestinians have made excellent
		
00:51:13 --> 00:51:16
			points. But I'm not yet convinced
that I'm worried, because I've
		
00:51:16 --> 00:51:19
			been brought up to be taught that
the Israelis are the good guys and
		
00:51:19 --> 00:51:23
			the Palestinians are the bad guys.
And I'm terrified that in my heart
		
00:51:23 --> 00:51:25
			as an editor, that I'm beginning
to sympathize with the
		
00:51:25 --> 00:51:28
			Palestinians, and that's because
of the guests that I'm bringing,
		
00:51:28 --> 00:51:30
			and that's why I think what we're
seeing is that Palestinians,
		
00:51:32 --> 00:51:34
			a lot of them, are reporting that
the interviews are being canceled.
		
00:51:34 --> 00:51:37
			I think the media saying, Look,
this is causing controversy.
		
00:51:37 --> 00:51:39
			Let's, let's keep it out of here.
But I think that, having said
		
00:51:39 --> 00:51:43
			that, I know people like to paint
the media with a broad brush, but
		
00:51:43 --> 00:51:46
			credit where credit is due. The
issue of the 40 babies being
		
00:51:46 --> 00:51:50
			beheaded, which hasn't been
confirmed, the reason why I what I
		
00:51:50 --> 00:51:52
			resent the fact it's being shared,
is because it hasn't been
		
00:51:52 --> 00:51:55
			confirmed. Whether it's happened
or not. You shouldn't say
		
00:51:55 --> 00:51:59
			something until it's confirmed.
When journalists were reporting
		
00:51:59 --> 00:52:02
			it, and we've seen today, the
morning of when we're recording
		
00:52:02 --> 00:52:05
			we've seen now a lot of papers
have put it in quotation marks,
		
00:52:05 --> 00:52:09
			front page, front page. Yeah, in
quotation marks from an IDF
		
00:52:09 --> 00:52:16
			source. Any journalist with
integrity would never print news
		
00:52:17 --> 00:52:20
			that came from one source, and
that source happens to be a party
		
00:52:20 --> 00:52:23
			to the conflict from the IDF
itself, and that's why I thought
		
00:52:23 --> 00:52:26
			it quite interesting that Dominic
Waghorn, if I pronounced this name
		
00:52:26 --> 00:52:28
			correctly, the foreign
correspondent for Sky News,
		
00:52:28 --> 00:52:31
			actually came out in a tweet and
said, this is very irresponsible.
		
00:52:31 --> 00:52:34
			We haven't corroborated and by all
journalistic standards, we
		
00:52:34 --> 00:52:36
			shouldn't even be sharing this
news until it's been confirmed.
		
00:52:36 --> 00:52:39
			And Adora agency even called the
Israelis through their contacts,
		
00:52:40 --> 00:52:43
			and the Israeli said, we have no
proof of it. The Israelis had no
		
00:52:43 --> 00:52:47
			proof. The source was an i 24
reporter who came out and said
		
00:52:47 --> 00:52:50
			that a soldier has told me that
the bay that they've seen it. And
		
00:52:50 --> 00:52:54
			then she later said, Wait, I
didn't see it. So it all has this,
		
00:52:54 --> 00:52:57
			this, and the reason it was shared
is because it exposed the
		
00:52:57 --> 00:52:59
			Islamophobic tropes that people
were tended to be inclined
		
00:52:59 --> 00:53:01
			towards. But what I liked about
the Sky News, foreign
		
00:53:01 --> 00:53:04
			correspondent and even Sky News,
Sky News brought in their show
		
00:53:04 --> 00:53:08
			with the paper front pages. They
said, look, the papers are saying
		
00:53:08 --> 00:53:11
			40 babies. We've seen nothing to
corroborate it. There's only one
		
00:53:11 --> 00:53:14
			source. It's the IDF, which is
dubious in and of itself. And I
		
00:53:14 --> 00:53:17
			like that. I thought that was and
that's why I think sometimes when
		
00:53:17 --> 00:53:20
			you paint things or look at things
in black and white, you miss the
		
00:53:20 --> 00:53:23
			opportunities. Opportunities are
always in gray. And one of the
		
00:53:23 --> 00:53:29
			reasons why I think sometimes that
Allah subhanahu wa says women as
		
00:53:29 --> 00:53:32
			Alain Muslimeen, when he says
those who call to Allah, when
		
00:53:32 --> 00:53:36
			Allah elevates the idea of dawah,
it's because what ALLAH SubhanA wa
		
00:53:36 --> 00:53:39
			Taala is telling you is, don't
just talk to those who are your
		
00:53:39 --> 00:53:42
			friends or who believe, go and
talk to other people, because this
		
00:53:42 --> 00:53:46
			is the best kind of speech. Talk
to those who are against you.
		
00:53:46 --> 00:53:49
			Engage them. That's what you
should be doing. And part of
		
00:53:49 --> 00:53:52
			engaging them is the way of Musa
ibn ramayr, the first diplomat in
		
00:53:52 --> 00:53:57
			Islam who went to Medina. And Saad
Ibn WA is threatening him, and
		
00:53:57 --> 00:54:00
			Musa bin Ramey says to him, yes,
Adina Muay, hear what I have to
		
00:54:00 --> 00:54:03
			say. If you don't like it, you can
go your way and I'll leave you
		
00:54:03 --> 00:54:07
			afterwards. And I think sometimes
Muslims in our I don't want to say
		
00:54:07 --> 00:54:09
			our trauma, because,
Alhamdulillah, I have a very
		
00:54:09 --> 00:54:12
			optimistic image of Allah,
Subhanahu wa and I'm very
		
00:54:12 --> 00:54:14
			optimistic in his power. And I
always believe ALLAH is in supreme
		
00:54:14 --> 00:54:17
			control and able to change
everything. And Surat hood is a
		
00:54:17 --> 00:54:19
			good reminder of these things. But
the point is,
		
00:54:20 --> 00:54:24
			I think that some Muslims,
sometimes in their anger and in
		
00:54:24 --> 00:54:29
			the tro the subconscious trauma,
they forget to look for the
		
00:54:29 --> 00:54:31
			opportunities. And they're all and
are straight away looking for the
		
00:54:31 --> 00:54:34
			battle. And I think in the media,
we should be aware that there are
		
00:54:34 --> 00:54:36
			opportunities, and the
Palestinians have been able to use
		
00:54:36 --> 00:54:41
			that to maximum effect, and that's
why the Israelis are panicking and
		
00:54:41 --> 00:54:43
			peddling this fake news, including
the one about the girl that they
		
00:54:43 --> 00:54:46
			said Hamas had paraded, that they
had killed and paraded, and
		
00:54:46 --> 00:54:49
			Newsweek reported yesterday that
she's in a hospital being treated
		
00:54:49 --> 00:54:53
			for her injuries. So I think that
with regards to the media, and you
		
00:54:53 --> 00:54:55
			talk about the media being one
sided, I think it's more
		
00:54:55 --> 00:54:58
			complicated than that. Certainly
there's been a shift in the tide
		
00:54:58 --> 00:54:59
			in that the media are confused,
but I don't.
		
00:55:00 --> 00:55:02
			Think it's the media saying, oh,
let's support the Israelis. I
		
00:55:02 --> 00:55:05
			think it's the media saying the
Palestinians were so good on our
		
00:55:05 --> 00:55:08
			platforms. Are we doing the right
thing? And I think it's about now
		
00:55:08 --> 00:55:12
			capitalizing on that momentum to
say to the media or even through
		
00:55:12 --> 00:55:15
			the social media platforms, look,
we can actually make a difference.
		
00:55:15 --> 00:55:18
			The final point worth making
noting is on the on this is the
		
00:55:18 --> 00:55:21
			decentralization of information
has helped this cause a lot. I
		
00:55:21 --> 00:55:25
			think that even social media,
social media, I think even I have
		
00:55:25 --> 00:55:29
			deep misgivings about Elon Musk.
I'll put it quite bluntly. I'm not
		
00:55:29 --> 00:55:32
			one of those who sees and
celebrates but
		
00:55:33 --> 00:55:36
			the restrictions that he's lifted
on X or Twitter or whatever
		
00:55:37 --> 00:55:42
			has resulted in the proliferation
of the Palestinian narrative, the
		
00:55:42 --> 00:55:46
			truth of what's happening on the
ground that has allowed it to
		
00:55:46 --> 00:55:50
			reach so many people, and those
who used to dominate the narrative
		
00:55:50 --> 00:55:54
			are complaining and calling it
disinformation. What they're
		
00:55:54 --> 00:55:58
			complaining about is that they are
saying, without proof, that Hamas
		
00:55:58 --> 00:56:03
			beheaded 40 babies, but videos of
babies actually having been killed
		
00:56:03 --> 00:56:06
			by the Israelis have gone viral on
social media. Is that why you
		
00:56:06 --> 00:56:09
			think the EU Commission sent this
letter? This is exactly the point
		
00:56:09 --> 00:56:12
			I was making, and this is why I
think the EU, which is deeply
		
00:56:12 --> 00:56:15
			concerned or not the EU, we just
said, the EU is divided. This is
		
00:56:15 --> 00:56:18
			why I think that people in the EU
are so concerned that the
		
00:56:18 --> 00:56:21
			Palestinians have been so
effective in conveying their
		
00:56:21 --> 00:56:25
			narrative in an unprecedented
manner that they are trying to
		
00:56:25 --> 00:56:29
			warn Elon Musk and trying to warn
social media to rein in the
		
00:56:29 --> 00:56:32
			proliferation of this information.
Because what they're terrified of
		
00:56:33 --> 00:56:36
			is that the people that the
Israelis said for 70 years were
		
00:56:36 --> 00:56:39
			beasts and backwards and people
who should be exterminated. They
		
00:56:39 --> 00:56:41
			are terrified that the world is
seeing them something that Israel
		
00:56:41 --> 00:56:44
			is so frightened of, which is that
they're actually human and not the
		
00:56:44 --> 00:56:48
			beast that Israeli. So let's talk
about this possible ground attack
		
00:56:48 --> 00:56:49
			now. The Israelis have moved
300,000
		
00:56:50 --> 00:56:55
			troops on the so called frontier
with Gaza, and there seems to be
		
00:56:56 --> 00:57:03
			ever so clear evidence that
they're looking to start a ground
		
00:57:03 --> 00:57:08
			offensive. How likely in your mind
is a ground and offensive? Likely
		
00:57:08 --> 00:57:13
			in the next few days? I think that
it's easier to explain
		
00:57:14 --> 00:57:17
			the short answer is, I don't know.
And it's easy to explain the
		
00:57:17 --> 00:57:20
			answer I don't know by thinking
that Israel, at this moment, is
		
00:57:20 --> 00:57:25
			like a tiger that's had its tail
stepped on. So it's weighing
		
00:57:25 --> 00:57:30
			things up. So not weighing things
up, it's in a hysteria. Israel is
		
00:57:30 --> 00:57:33
			in an unprecedented situation,
right? Israel has just been
		
00:57:33 --> 00:57:37
			humiliated by Palestinians as it
looks down upon they've taken land
		
00:57:37 --> 00:57:40
			back from the Israelis rockets
have landed in Tel Aviv Ben Gurion
		
00:57:40 --> 00:57:44
			Airport has been shut. There was
even a photo or a video, I'm not
		
00:57:44 --> 00:57:46
			sure if it's corporate or not,
that showed a former president
		
00:57:46 --> 00:57:50
			actually trying to flee via Ben
Gurion Airport as well. I think
		
00:57:50 --> 00:57:53
			that for the Israelis, there is
this hysteria in that the world
		
00:57:53 --> 00:57:58
			has seen us humiliated. How can we
address this humiliation? We took
		
00:57:58 --> 00:58:00
			the lands back, and people are
still talking about Palestinian
		
00:58:00 --> 00:58:03
			victory. We've bombarded Gaza, and
they're still talking about
		
00:58:03 --> 00:58:07
			victory. When can we get to a
point where we feel the sense that
		
00:58:07 --> 00:58:10
			we have wiped away this
humiliation that the Palestinians
		
00:58:10 --> 00:58:13
			have incurred upon us? And that's
why I think that where people
		
00:58:13 --> 00:58:16
			before have said that Israel might
be reined in, I think this
		
00:58:16 --> 00:58:19
			hysteria is where there is the
greatest threat, and this is why
		
00:58:19 --> 00:58:22
			people say they don't know Israel
has amassed for this grand
		
00:58:22 --> 00:58:24
			invasion or the like, but the
reality is that they've amassed it
		
00:58:25 --> 00:58:29
			because Netanyahu is ego is hurt.
Netanyahu is be is under pressure
		
00:58:29 --> 00:58:32
			to resign from his position for
bringing the greatest calamity to
		
00:58:32 --> 00:58:35
			Israel. According to Israeli
journalists, to Israel, Netanyahu
		
00:58:36 --> 00:58:40
			is waiting for this point at which
he can say to the Israelis, I've
		
00:58:40 --> 00:58:43
			humiliated the Palestinians, and
now they've gone back home, and I
		
00:58:43 --> 00:58:45
			strike the comparison with the
uprising in stiff and Algeria in
		
00:58:45 --> 00:58:49
			1945 in 1945 France was liberated
from Germany, and France was
		
00:58:49 --> 00:58:53
			celebrating. And on the same day,
the Algerians in stiff took to the
		
00:58:53 --> 00:58:56
			streets and gelma and other places
to say that this UN charter of
		
00:58:56 --> 00:59:01
			yours looks amazing. It says every
man is born free and freedom, and
		
00:59:01 --> 00:59:04
			we really like what you're saying
in this chart, and we like this
		
00:59:04 --> 00:59:08
			sudden reflection. We want it as
well. We want to be free as well.
		
00:59:08 --> 00:59:11
			And the French result, and some of
the groups in Algeria launched an
		
00:59:11 --> 00:59:15
			attack on some of the French
colonizers, or the like the French
		
00:59:15 --> 00:59:18
			were brutal in their reprisals,
but the reason they were brutal
		
00:59:19 --> 00:59:23
			was because they said, if we're
soft, it will encourage Algerians
		
00:59:23 --> 00:59:27
			to start challenging us. We have
to give them a lesson that is so
		
00:59:27 --> 00:59:32
			brutal and so hard and so
decisive, we have to shed so much
		
00:59:32 --> 00:59:36
			blood. We have to make it as in
the words of Golda Meir, we have
		
00:59:36 --> 00:59:39
			to make it so that they fear the
death of their children more than
		
00:59:39 --> 00:59:44
			they hate us, we have to utterly
deliver a reprisal, a sweeping
		
00:59:44 --> 00:59:47
			communal punishment in order to
prevent this from happening. The
		
00:59:47 --> 00:59:50
			irony, of course, is 17 years
later, the France were kicked out
		
00:59:50 --> 00:59:53
			by the Algerians. It ended up
sparking a movement that the
		
00:59:53 --> 00:59:56
			Algerians eventually led to war
for liberation. But Israel is in
		
00:59:56 --> 00:59:59
			this state that given that the
Palestinians who last week, we
		
00:59:59 --> 00:59:59
			were.
		
01:00:00 --> 01:00:02
			Saying we're at the weakest point
that the Palestinian cause is
		
01:00:02 --> 01:00:06
			dying, given that now 1000s of
people are on the 1010s, of 1000s
		
01:00:06 --> 01:00:08
			of people on the streets in
Jordan, 1000s are on the streets
		
01:00:08 --> 01:00:12
			in Yemen, 1000s are on the streets
in in other Muslim countries,
		
01:00:12 --> 01:00:15
			supporting Palestine, given that
there's this way Vincent man is
		
01:00:15 --> 01:00:17
			buckling. He's calling me a
colonizer. Again. Erdogan is
		
01:00:17 --> 01:00:20
			buckling. He was sitting with me,
sharing tea with me, and now he's
		
01:00:20 --> 01:00:23
			saying that I'm whatever. UAE is
buckling. It's starting to give
		
01:00:23 --> 01:00:26
			aid. And Abdul Khaliq Abdullah,
out loud, is supporting the
		
01:00:26 --> 01:00:29
			Palestinians, all these people who
are begging me to speak to the US
		
01:00:29 --> 01:00:32
			and the Congress, they're all
buckling one by one. I need to
		
01:00:32 --> 01:00:35
			send a lesson. These Palestinians
have committed something so grave
		
01:00:35 --> 01:00:40
			I have to pound them and demolish
them, and until they believe that
		
01:00:40 --> 01:00:43
			the price for resistance is too
high. And going back to your The
		
01:00:43 --> 01:00:46
			reason this links to your question
is, does a ground invasion serve
		
01:00:46 --> 01:00:50
			that purpose? Because Netanyahu
has done ground invasions before,
		
01:00:50 --> 01:00:54
			and he's failed every time. The
reason why he's failed is one, he
		
01:00:54 --> 01:00:57
			never seems to exterminate Hamas
or the other Palestinian groups.
		
01:00:57 --> 01:01:00
			The second is, Israelis don't have
an appetite for a high death toll
		
01:01:01 --> 01:01:04
			when the grand evasion goes in,
and then there's a delay even now.
		
01:01:04 --> 01:01:07
			Look, for example, people will see
the pictures of Gaza being
		
01:01:07 --> 01:01:08
			pummeled and pounded,
		
01:01:10 --> 01:01:13
			and then you'll see a simultaneous
video of rockets landing in
		
01:01:13 --> 01:01:16
			Ashkelon landing in Tel Aviv. So
on the one hand, I'm seeing
		
01:01:16 --> 01:01:19
			pictures that the Palestinians are
being decimated and obliterated,
		
01:01:19 --> 01:01:23
			and the buildings are and it's a
TR honestly, it's a huge tragedy
		
01:01:23 --> 01:01:26
			that moves the heart. It's so
upsetting. Where are these rockets
		
01:01:26 --> 01:01:29
			coming from? How is it that they
are still firing those rockets?
		
01:01:29 --> 01:01:32
			And that's the question. The
Israelis will say that if you do a
		
01:01:32 --> 01:01:35
			ground offensive, and he might do
a ground offensive, but Neto is
		
01:01:35 --> 01:01:38
			weighing the risk at this moment.
It's one of the scenarios, if I go
		
01:01:38 --> 01:01:38
			into Gaza
		
01:01:39 --> 01:01:44
			and I end up there, 3456, days,
and rockets still land in Tel Aviv
		
01:01:44 --> 01:01:47
			with. What face do I face the
Israeli people? People will laugh
		
01:01:47 --> 01:01:51
			at me. Yes, I may kill 2000 Gazans
or 3000 cousins, but they have
		
01:01:51 --> 01:01:54
			nothing to lose. They're used to
it for 70 years. My people, the
		
01:01:54 --> 01:01:57
			Israelis, are not used to it, and
that's why I think that the
		
01:01:57 --> 01:02:00
			question I started with, I don't
know, but I'm trying to go through
		
01:02:00 --> 01:02:03
			the process of why? I don't know,
because Netanyahu himself is
		
01:02:03 --> 01:02:06
			probably doesn't know either.
Netanyahu has been trying to form
		
01:02:06 --> 01:02:08
			a government. And I think I just
read just before we started,
		
01:02:09 --> 01:02:12
			literally breaking news, Netanyahu
and Benny Gantz have managed to
		
01:02:12 --> 01:02:15
			form a government. The factor took
72 hours to form a war government,
		
01:02:15 --> 01:02:18
			or longer than 72 hours suggest
how deep the divisions are between
		
01:02:18 --> 01:02:20
			the various different factions.
Regardless, they've managed to
		
01:02:20 --> 01:02:23
			unite. That still doesn't mean
there will be a ground offensive.
		
01:02:23 --> 01:02:25
			It may well be that there is. But
even if there is a ground
		
01:02:25 --> 01:02:28
			offensive, it's important to put
it into context. A ground
		
01:02:28 --> 01:02:31
			offensive will be conducted in
order to serve the purpose, to
		
01:02:31 --> 01:02:34
			send that message to everybody
that your opinion, that the
		
01:02:34 --> 01:02:37
			Palestinian cause is alive is
false, and here I am crushing it,
		
01:02:38 --> 01:02:41
			but history shows and that's why I
give the Algeria example that the
		
01:02:41 --> 01:02:44
			French did exactly the same. They
killed 30,000 people in less than
		
01:02:44 --> 01:02:49
			a week. And 17 years later, their
132 years of occupation was
		
01:02:49 --> 01:02:52
			finished. And that's why I think
that Netanyahu, the lesson from
		
01:02:52 --> 01:02:56
			history, suggests that Netanyahu
is making a grave mistake in
		
01:02:56 --> 01:02:59
			putting his ego ahead of the
safety of the people that he
		
01:02:59 --> 01:03:04
			claims to protect. So Netanyahu
had to, has to satiate the
		
01:03:05 --> 01:03:10
			bloodlust that Israeli public
opinion required from him.
		
01:03:11 --> 01:03:15
			But, you know, many Israeli
ministers have suggested that
		
01:03:16 --> 01:03:20
			victory would not be achieved
unless Hamas is completely
		
01:03:20 --> 01:03:23
			dismantled. In fact, Netanyahu
gave that speech where he said
		
01:03:23 --> 01:03:26
			that the outcome of this would be
a change in Middle East. So
		
01:03:26 --> 01:03:30
			they've set the bar quite high,
and Ariel bombardment alone is not
		
01:03:30 --> 01:03:33
			going to solve that problem, as
you've just demonstrated. So it
		
01:03:33 --> 01:03:38
			seems to me that the options are
narrowing for Netanyahu, and he
		
01:03:38 --> 01:03:42
			needs to send in a ground force of
some sort in order to dismantle
		
01:03:42 --> 01:03:48
			Hamas, I think that to put us into
wala and this is the this is the
		
01:03:48 --> 01:03:51
			darker part of of my role as a
consultant, sometimes for the
		
01:03:51 --> 01:03:54
			clients, in that the easiest way
to analyze these things is to put
		
01:03:54 --> 01:03:57
			yourself in the position of people
that you perhaps wouldn't like to
		
01:03:57 --> 01:04:01
			be in another life. If I put
myself in Netanyahu position
		
01:04:01 --> 01:04:05
			again, and imagine you are Benny
Gantz. Let me get you. Let me, let
		
01:04:05 --> 01:04:07
			me drag you into this scenario as
well. Yes, let's say you're Benny
		
01:04:07 --> 01:04:11
			Gantz, and I'm and I'm Netanyahu,
and you're telling me, for
		
01:04:11 --> 01:04:13
			example, I'm not going to join the
government except these
		
01:04:13 --> 01:04:16
			conditions, this condition, this
condition, and I'm Netanyahu, I'm
		
01:04:16 --> 01:04:20
			on the verge of going down in
history as the worst Prime
		
01:04:20 --> 01:04:23
			Minister in Israeli history, I'm
about to go down in history as the
		
01:04:23 --> 01:04:26
			person who brought the greatest
threat to Israel since Golda Meir.
		
01:04:26 --> 01:04:29
			Golda Meir resigned after the Six
Day War because the Israelis
		
01:04:29 --> 01:04:32
			blamed her for her intelligence
failures in allowing Egypt and
		
01:04:32 --> 01:04:35
			Syria to cross and break those
Israeli defensive lines. They
		
01:04:35 --> 01:04:39
			didn't even penetrate Israel
proper people always look at 1973
		
01:04:39 --> 01:04:43
			in 1973 when the Egyptians broke
the Israeli line, they broke the
		
01:04:43 --> 01:04:47
			Israeli line in Sinai, not Israel
proper. When the Syrians broke the
		
01:04:47 --> 01:04:49
			Israeli line, they broke the
Israeli line around the golden
		
01:04:49 --> 01:04:52
			heights, not in Israel proper.
Since 1948 there's never been a
		
01:04:52 --> 01:04:56
			penetration of Israel proper. So
Netanyahu would go down in history
		
01:04:56 --> 01:04:59
			as worse than goldemir. He would
go down in history as the person
		
01:04:59 --> 01:04:59
			who.
		
01:05:00 --> 01:05:03
			Who brought Israel the worst
disaster since it was announced
		
01:05:03 --> 01:05:07
			that it was a state itself,
Netanyahu, if you're, if you are,
		
01:05:07 --> 01:05:11
			Netanyahu, ayahu Billah, Over my
dead body. Am I leaving this
		
01:05:11 --> 01:05:15
			office in the current situation? I
desperately need something to show
		
01:05:15 --> 01:05:18
			for it, and I have Benny Gantz
breathing down my neck, and the
		
01:05:18 --> 01:05:22
			other Israelis arguing for my
resignation. They've been arguing
		
01:05:22 --> 01:05:24
			it before over my judicial
reforms. They're pressuring me.
		
01:05:24 --> 01:05:27
			The journalists are telling me I
should resign. There's a viral
		
01:05:27 --> 01:05:30
			video in Israel of two people who
lost their family members in the
		
01:05:30 --> 01:05:33
			assault who are saying that I
blame Netanyahu and it's your
		
01:05:33 --> 01:05:35
			fault. I hold you responsible.
It's gone viral, millions of
		
01:05:35 --> 01:05:38
			views. In Israel itself, Netanyahu
is saying, I can't leave. If I
		
01:05:38 --> 01:05:42
			leave now, my person or his legacy
is going to be in tatters. And
		
01:05:42 --> 01:05:44
			that's why I think that the
question Netanyahu asks himself
		
01:05:44 --> 01:05:48
			is, is there an alternative way,
aside from a ground invasion?
		
01:05:48 --> 01:05:51
			Because Netanyahu has always
failed in the ground invasions.
		
01:05:52 --> 01:05:54
			Netanyahu, you said they set the
bar high. They always set the bar
		
01:05:54 --> 01:05:57
			high. They always say they're
going to exterminate Hamas. They
		
01:05:57 --> 01:05:59
			always say they're going to
pomogaza. They always, and it may
		
01:05:59 --> 01:06:01
			well be this time, they might be
more serious than they were
		
01:06:01 --> 01:06:03
			before, but what I'm saying is we
don't judge based on the
		
01:06:03 --> 01:06:06
			statements. We judge based on the
circumstances that they find
		
01:06:06 --> 01:06:10
			themselves in. If they do launch a
grand evasion, let's suppose that
		
01:06:10 --> 01:06:14
			they do, and it is possible if
they launch a ground invasion and
		
01:06:14 --> 01:06:17
			the death toll starts mounting,
it's hard to imagine Benny Gantz
		
01:06:17 --> 01:06:20
			continuing to support Netanyahu.
It's hard to imagine the other
		
01:06:20 --> 01:06:23
			allies in the government
supporting it's hard to imagine
		
01:06:23 --> 01:06:25
			yay Lapid, who was Prime Minister
before saying, you know, and
		
01:06:25 --> 01:06:29
			Netanyahu, keep going, keep going,
and let the Israel bear in mind,
		
01:06:29 --> 01:06:31
			more Israelis have died, and I
don't celebrate war. I don't
		
01:06:31 --> 01:06:33
			celebrate death. And one thing
worth noting to the Muslims, the
		
01:06:33 --> 01:06:36
			Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu alaihi
salam said that the Muslims should
		
01:06:36 --> 01:06:39
			never wish to find the
battlefield. The Muslims should
		
01:06:39 --> 01:06:42
			never wish to find war. The
Muslims should never dream of
		
01:06:42 --> 01:06:46
			being on the battlefield. But if
he finds himself in the
		
01:06:46 --> 01:06:49
			battlefield defending something or
the like, then he should fight as
		
01:06:49 --> 01:06:52
			if the, I can't remember the rest.
But the point is, he should fight
		
01:06:52 --> 01:06:56
			with no reserves back, yeah, until
the until the enemy turns back.
		
01:06:56 --> 01:06:58
			And when they turn back, the
Prophet said, do not transgress.
		
01:06:58 --> 01:07:01
			ALLAH says, take your justice and
don't go beyond that. And I think
		
01:07:01 --> 01:07:04
			that's a very important message.
Important Message to the Muslims.
		
01:07:04 --> 01:07:07
			We don't celebrate blood lust, we
don't celebrate death and we don't
		
01:07:07 --> 01:07:11
			celebrate war. What Muslims are
celebrating is not war. They're
		
01:07:11 --> 01:07:14
			celebrating the revival of a
cause, the just cause that
		
01:07:14 --> 01:07:17
			everybody thought was dead. This
is an important distinction, and I
		
01:07:17 --> 01:07:20
			think it's very important to
stress. But going back to the
		
01:07:20 --> 01:07:24
			point the Netanyahu, when the
death toll rises and more Israelis
		
01:07:24 --> 01:07:27
			have died over the last three days
than they have since 2002
		
01:07:28 --> 01:07:32
			1019 just think about that for a
second. More Israelis have died in
		
01:07:32 --> 01:07:36
			three days than 19 years put
together in 19 years, which have
		
01:07:36 --> 01:07:39
			seen more than five wars between
Gaza, between the Palestinians and
		
01:07:39 --> 01:07:40
			between the Israelis.
		
01:07:41 --> 01:07:45
			When that death toll rises, put
yourself back in Netanyahu his
		
01:07:45 --> 01:07:48
			position, waia, now you're sitting
on table with Benny Gantz, with
		
01:07:48 --> 01:07:54
			Yahi Lapid, with these other other
Israeli politicians. It's hardly
		
01:07:54 --> 01:07:57
			likely they're going to look at
Netanyahu and say, Netanyahu, keep
		
01:07:57 --> 01:08:00
			leading us. And netiyo might be
forced to resign, and then another
		
01:08:00 --> 01:08:03
			person might come in who doesn't
have that baggage, the ego, and
		
01:08:03 --> 01:08:06
			might say, You know what, let's
sign a de escalation. It may well
		
01:08:06 --> 01:08:09
			be there's another alternative, by
the way, which is not a grand
		
01:08:09 --> 01:08:11
			evasion, which is that Netanyahu,
the Qataris now are in fierce
		
01:08:11 --> 01:08:14
			negotiations to try to find a de
escalation. The Qataris are
		
01:08:14 --> 01:08:17
			talking to the Israelis and the
Palestinians to negotiate the
		
01:08:17 --> 01:08:20
			hostage exchange. It may well be
that Netanyahu secures a deal on
		
01:08:20 --> 01:08:24
			the hostage exchange. Instead of
to put into context when Jalad
		
01:08:24 --> 01:08:28
			Shalit in 2012 1013 I could be
wrong in the year in 1000 and 10s.
		
01:08:28 --> 01:08:31
			Anyway, Israeli soldier who was
captured. This was a very famous
		
01:08:31 --> 01:08:33
			case, captured by the
Palestinians. The Palestinians
		
01:08:33 --> 01:08:38
			managed to trade him for 1500
Palestinians. So they traded him
		
01:08:38 --> 01:08:42
			for 1500 Palestinians, not just
fighters, Palestinians, who are
		
01:08:42 --> 01:08:45
			arbitrarily detained illegally by
the Israelis.
		
01:08:46 --> 01:08:51
			Netanyahu may say that we've
traded 36 hostages for 36
		
01:08:51 --> 01:08:54
			hostages. So another government
would have traded 1500
		
01:08:54 --> 01:08:58
			Palestinians. I've only traded 36
Palestinians for 36 Israel it may
		
01:08:58 --> 01:09:01
			well be he finds it. But the point
here is that a grand invasion? You
		
01:09:01 --> 01:09:04
			asked if a grand invasion is
possible? I think anything is
		
01:09:04 --> 01:09:08
			possible, not because they've
planned it, but because everybody
		
01:09:08 --> 01:09:11
			is operating with a limited set of
facts and making decisions based
		
01:09:11 --> 01:09:14
			on that set of facts in a
situation that is unprecedented,
		
01:09:14 --> 01:09:19
			right? Can I ask you about Egypt
now? Effectively, the rougher
		
01:09:19 --> 01:09:24
			crossing is shot to a humanitarian
corridor, but also shot to
		
01:09:25 --> 01:09:29
			refugees, and those who are who
are injured, and the Israelis have
		
01:09:29 --> 01:09:32
			been permanent, have been
destroying, in fact, and they say
		
01:09:32 --> 01:09:35
			they're destroying the tunnels,
but effectively making it far more
		
01:09:35 --> 01:09:38
			difficult to cross that border.
But the Egyptians do not want
		
01:09:39 --> 01:09:42
			Palestinian refugees to cross into
Sanaya.
		
01:09:44 --> 01:09:49
			Why is Egypt doing this? What's
what's behind CC's motive that you
		
01:09:49 --> 01:09:53
			know it because it's a very risky
strategy where, in effect, you're
		
01:09:53 --> 01:09:58
			allowing Palestinians to be
destroyed, to be killed by by
		
01:09:58 --> 01:09:59
			Israeli bombs. As far as.
		
01:10:00 --> 01:10:00
			I'm aware
		
01:10:02 --> 01:10:06
			humanitarian aid has been trying
to cross the Rafah border, and
		
01:10:06 --> 01:10:09
			CC's given the green light for it,
right? The videos that show the
		
01:10:09 --> 01:10:12
			humanitarian agencies moving,
turning back from Rafa ha Buddha,
		
01:10:12 --> 01:10:14
			it's not because it's closed, but
because the Israelites. So for
		
01:10:14 --> 01:10:17
			example, there was a video I think
madam Assa shared it, but I could
		
01:10:17 --> 01:10:20
			be wrong, but madam Master is very
good to follow, by the way, for
		
01:10:20 --> 01:10:23
			this, for this kind of news, when
it comes to Egypt. But it shows a
		
01:10:23 --> 01:10:27
			video of eight fuel trucks turning
back from the Rafah border. And
		
01:10:27 --> 01:10:30
			the reason being is that they are
terrified, of course, if, if they
		
01:10:30 --> 01:10:33
			get bombed, it's a huge disaster
if fuel gets hit by whatever. I
		
01:10:33 --> 01:10:36
			think that the Rafah border the
general procession from the
		
01:10:36 --> 01:10:39
			Palestinians, that it's open, and
that even if Sisi doesn't want the
		
01:10:39 --> 01:10:42
			Palestinians to come in, I don't
think the Palestinians necessarily
		
01:10:42 --> 01:10:45
			fleeing to Egypt. Some of them are
but I think also that humanitarian
		
01:10:45 --> 01:10:48
			aid is supposed to go through Rafa
crossing. The Arab League meeting
		
01:10:48 --> 01:10:51
			is meeting at the time in which
we're recording this podcast. So
		
01:10:51 --> 01:10:53
			we can't comment on the results of
the Arab League meeting, but
		
01:10:53 --> 01:10:56
			according to reports, they are
discussing how to deliver
		
01:10:56 --> 01:10:59
			humanitarian aid to Gaza, and the
only way to deliver it would be
		
01:10:59 --> 01:11:00
			through the Rafa crossing.
		
01:11:01 --> 01:11:04
			I think that while the Israelis
have bombed the Rafah crossing,
		
01:11:05 --> 01:11:07
			I think that
		
01:11:08 --> 01:11:11
			it's unclear to what extent they
will antagonize the other Muslim
		
01:11:11 --> 01:11:15
			nations. I think the US are
operating on the belief and the
		
01:11:15 --> 01:11:19
			Israelis that the Muslim nations
are not seeking any outright
		
01:11:19 --> 01:11:22
			confrontation with the Israelis.
How long the Muslim nations will
		
01:11:22 --> 01:11:25
			be able to keep that up is
unclear. Minsan man is always
		
01:11:25 --> 01:11:28
			buckled in or has already buckled
in his statement. Erdogan has
		
01:11:28 --> 01:11:31
			already changed his rhetoric, and
it's very difficult to see them
		
01:11:31 --> 01:11:34
			sitting idly by over a prolonged
conflict. I think it would become
		
01:11:34 --> 01:11:38
			very difficult, particularly as
public opinion starts to really
		
01:11:38 --> 01:11:40
			express itself, as we saw in
Jordan, as we saw in these other
		
01:11:40 --> 01:11:43
			places, public opinion does
matter. Some people often say, or
		
01:11:43 --> 01:11:46
			they quote, what does all this
social media stuff do? Or the
		
01:11:46 --> 01:11:50
			like, if it didn't matter, Vincent
man could have said, normalization
		
01:11:50 --> 01:11:53
			talks are still ongoing. He can't
not because he's afraid of the
		
01:11:53 --> 01:11:55
			Americans. It would please the
Americans to say, we do
		
01:11:55 --> 01:11:58
			normalization. The only reason
he's saying they can't continue,
		
01:11:58 --> 01:12:00
			or suggesting they can't continue
is because he's scared of public
		
01:12:00 --> 01:12:03
			opinion. So your tweets and
reshares and and comments, they
		
01:12:03 --> 01:12:06
			all matter. It all these trending
stuff, they they matter. So I
		
01:12:06 --> 01:12:09
			think that the public opinion may
make it untenable for them. Having
		
01:12:09 --> 01:12:13
			said that, I think that Israel, in
places, is still showing restraint
		
01:12:13 --> 01:12:16
			on the border with Lebanon, for
example, in the way that it's
		
01:12:16 --> 01:12:19
			denying Iranian involvement. Iran
is probably involved, but Israel
		
01:12:19 --> 01:12:22
			is denying it because it because
it doesn't want to expand the
		
01:12:22 --> 01:12:25
			fronts that are taking place.
Israel is limiting its attacks on
		
01:12:25 --> 01:12:28
			the West Bank. The West Bank
hasn't really borne the brunt of
		
01:12:28 --> 01:12:30
			it either, suggesting Israel is
also trying to limit that as well.
		
01:12:31 --> 01:12:34
			Even domestically. Inside Israel,
there are some Palestinians who
		
01:12:34 --> 01:12:37
			are under there's a report of two
Palestinians being shot by police,
		
01:12:37 --> 01:12:40
			but not a real huge crackdown on
the Palestinians, either. I think
		
01:12:40 --> 01:12:43
			the Israelis are very wary of
provoking a backlash inside Israel
		
01:12:43 --> 01:12:46
			from the Palestinians themselves.
All these suggest that Israel is
		
01:12:46 --> 01:12:47
			showing some sort of restraint,
		
01:12:48 --> 01:12:51
			which means that, going back to
your question, which means that
		
01:12:51 --> 01:12:54
			the Israelis themselves, given
that they're showing restraint,
		
01:12:54 --> 01:12:57
			it's unclear to what extent they
will continue provoking the
		
01:12:57 --> 01:13:01
			Egyptians. The Egyptians who, to
be honest, Sisi, has unprecedented
		
01:13:01 --> 01:13:04
			ties with the Israelis. And there
was a leaked report in Saudi
		
01:13:04 --> 01:13:07
			Arabia that suggested that one of
the things that upset bin Salman
		
01:13:07 --> 01:13:11
			about Sisi or that bin Salman made
a remark to reporters in which he
		
01:13:11 --> 01:13:15
			said that our relations with the
Qataris are thriving. The UAE
		
01:13:15 --> 01:13:18
			agrees something with us in the
night time and say something else
		
01:13:18 --> 01:13:23
			in the morning, and Sisi is trying
to use the Israelis to flex
		
01:13:23 --> 01:13:27
			against me. So the idea being is
that even the Saudis, according to
		
01:13:27 --> 01:13:30
			reports, I know it's a leaked
report, and sometimes some people
		
01:13:30 --> 01:13:33
			doubt it, but the point is that
Sisi has generally decent
		
01:13:33 --> 01:13:36
			relations with the Israelis in
comparison to those before him. I
		
01:13:36 --> 01:13:38
			don't think it's as strong as
people suggest it is. I don't
		
01:13:38 --> 01:13:42
			think the Israelis will continue
antagonizing the Egyptians. I
		
01:13:42 --> 01:13:45
			think the Israelis in bombing the
Rafah crossing might have been a
		
01:13:45 --> 01:13:47
			lashing out, which is why I
started with the Israelis are
		
01:13:47 --> 01:13:51
			hysterical in terms of what's
happening, but I still think a lot
		
01:13:51 --> 01:13:54
			of the things are unknown, but
it's hard to imagine the Israelis
		
01:13:54 --> 01:13:57
			trying to open a front with the
Egyptians. Either they're mugging
		
01:13:57 --> 01:14:01
			Sisi off, to use a very colloquial
term, right? Believing that Sisi
		
01:14:01 --> 01:14:05
			is so weak he can't do anything
anyway, or either it's a lashing
		
01:14:05 --> 01:14:07
			out, and they will revise it, and
they will say to Sisi, look, okay,
		
01:14:07 --> 01:14:10
			let humanitarian aid go through
Gaza, and let's see what the
		
01:14:10 --> 01:14:14
			Qataris provide in their
negotiations. Mustafa barkuti, I
		
01:14:14 --> 01:14:17
			think, on the freezer career
program, he mentioned that
		
01:14:19 --> 01:14:22
			there's a potential for ethnically
cleansing Gaza through that
		
01:14:22 --> 01:14:23
			rougher crossing.
		
01:14:24 --> 01:14:27
			Do you believe? Do you buy the
argument that maybe Netanyahu
		
01:14:27 --> 01:14:32
			would use this opportunity to, if
not, remove all and that's very
		
01:14:32 --> 01:14:37
			difficult, 2.2 million Gazans.
But, you know, take the
		
01:14:37 --> 01:14:43
			opportunity to evacuate large
numbers of Palestinians from their
		
01:14:43 --> 01:14:47
			land as a way of similar to the
West Bank as a way of
		
01:14:48 --> 01:14:50
			taking more land for Israel.
		
01:14:52 --> 01:14:56
			I think that when you remember the
map that Netanyahu held up at the
		
01:14:56 --> 01:14:58
			United Nations, I know people say,
Sam, you've mentioned it now three
		
01:14:58 --> 01:14:59
			times that map.
		
01:15:00 --> 01:15:02
			Is important because he mentioned
it in the same breath as
		
01:15:02 --> 01:15:04
			normalization of ties with Saudi
Arab which suggests that his
		
01:15:04 --> 01:15:07
			vision normalization will lead to
this vision where everything
		
01:15:07 --> 01:15:10
			belongs to Israel. I think
certainly, Netanyahu believes this
		
01:15:10 --> 01:15:12
			is a golden opportunity to
ethnically cleanse Gaza. Let's
		
01:15:12 --> 01:15:15
			drive them out the way we've
driven them out out of everywhere
		
01:15:15 --> 01:15:17
			else in Israel. Let's drive them
out the way we did in the Nakba in
		
01:15:17 --> 01:15:21
			the 1940s Let's drive them out the
way we did Intifada. Let's drive
		
01:15:21 --> 01:15:23
			them out the way we did. It's a
golden opportunity. And I think
		
01:15:23 --> 01:15:26
			one of the things that's quite
fascinating is the cutting of
		
01:15:26 --> 01:15:31
			electricity to Gaza had less to do
with limiting the operations of
		
01:15:31 --> 01:15:35
			the Palestinian attack on Israel,
and much more to do with gradually
		
01:15:36 --> 01:15:40
			removing or letting all the phone
batteries die of charge so they
		
01:15:40 --> 01:15:42
			don't have the battery life
anymore, so that when the ground
		
01:15:42 --> 01:15:45
			offensive begins, if it happens,
there's nobody to cover it. Think
		
01:15:45 --> 01:15:49
			about it. Where is all of our
information coming from? With
		
01:15:49 --> 01:15:52
			regards to what's happening in
Palestine and I think awesome, Dr.
		
01:15:52 --> 01:15:54
			ASAM Qureshi made a very good
point on Twitter. I said, Doctor.
		
01:15:54 --> 01:15:57
			He sent me a message once where he
said, I use doctor so to force the
		
01:15:57 --> 01:16:00
			Islamophobes to show me respect.
Muslims don't need to say doctor.
		
01:16:00 --> 01:16:03
			But in any regards, Assam Qureshi
had a very interesting tweet where
		
01:16:03 --> 01:16:07
			he said, on the Israeli side,
we're being told what is
		
01:16:07 --> 01:16:11
			happening. On the Palestinian
side, we're being shown what is
		
01:16:11 --> 01:16:14
			happening. And I think this is a
very important distinction in that
		
01:16:14 --> 01:16:17
			when Israel cuts off the
electricity, I think the
		
01:16:17 --> 01:16:21
			preparations for the grand defense
of are let the batteries die on
		
01:16:21 --> 01:16:24
			the phone, so that when we go in
and ethnically cleanse and
		
01:16:24 --> 01:16:27
			massacre the way the Serbians
perhaps did to the Bosnian
		
01:16:27 --> 01:16:30
			villages in the 1990s there'll be
nobody to see it. There'll be
		
01:16:30 --> 01:16:34
			nobody to see exactly what's
happening. And then, as one it's
		
01:16:34 --> 01:16:36
			been debunked. Apparently, it was
fake news. But the sentiment,
		
01:16:36 --> 01:16:39
			perhaps, is there the idea of
sending the Palestinians, let them
		
01:16:39 --> 01:16:42
			go to Egypt instead, or let them,
you know, flee to the West Bank or
		
01:16:42 --> 01:16:45
			like, I think Netanyahu certainly
sees this as a golden opportunity,
		
01:16:46 --> 01:16:48
			and that's why I think many
Palestinians haven't fled Gaza
		
01:16:48 --> 01:16:52
			despite the incessant bombing.
Palestinians have a very unique
		
01:16:52 --> 01:16:55
			sense of bravery. And I think the
Palestinians sometimes, and this
		
01:16:55 --> 01:16:58
			is why, when people sometimes
criticize tactics or the like, I
		
01:16:58 --> 01:17:01
			think people should be aware that
this is a people who, 70 years on,
		
01:17:02 --> 01:17:04
			are still holding very dear to
their cause, and people who
		
01:17:04 --> 01:17:07
			genuinely appreciate that the
world has abandoned them and that
		
01:17:07 --> 01:17:10
			they have to fight for themselves,
and they are desperately trying
		
01:17:10 --> 01:17:12
			for their cause. And that's why I
think that people should be very
		
01:17:12 --> 01:17:15
			easy in the criticism of any
transgressions that they might
		
01:17:15 --> 01:17:17
			commit. I don't think that you
should always you should bully the
		
01:17:17 --> 01:17:20
			victim or criticize the victim of
what's happening. And I think it
		
01:17:20 --> 01:17:22
			was interesting, there's a Pierce
Morgan show on talk TV. Yeah,
		
01:17:23 --> 01:17:25
			there is a lady who gave a very
good example of people who enter a
		
01:17:25 --> 01:17:28
			home and throw the owner in a
cellar, and then they change the
		
01:17:28 --> 01:17:30
			home and whatever, and they abuse
the seller. They don't feed him.
		
01:17:30 --> 01:17:32
			And when he comes out and sees the
home has changed, he says, I'm
		
01:17:32 --> 01:17:36
			going to burn it down. He says, no
sane person would blame the guy
		
01:17:36 --> 01:17:38
			who was hidden the cellar. You'd
blame the people who put the
		
01:17:38 --> 01:17:40
			person in the cellar. And that's,
I think it was a very good example
		
01:17:40 --> 01:17:43
			that she gave on the talk TV
appears Morgan show. But the idea
		
01:17:43 --> 01:17:45
			being is that I think that
		
01:17:46 --> 01:17:48
			Israel preparing for the grand
offensive and turning off the
		
01:17:48 --> 01:17:51
			electricity, something that's
against international law. Yeah,
		
01:17:51 --> 01:17:53
			shutting off the water. I think
the interior minister just did
		
01:17:53 --> 01:17:56
			polluting the water as well
against international law. It's a
		
01:17:56 --> 01:18:00
			war crime under international law.
But of course, international law
		
01:18:00 --> 01:18:03
			doesn't necessarily apply when it
comes to Israel. I think all of
		
01:18:03 --> 01:18:06
			that is in preparation that if
Netanyahu, if he's considering
		
01:18:06 --> 01:18:09
			ethnic cleansing, and I think it's
very much possible, Netanyahu has
		
01:18:09 --> 01:18:12
			been trying to ethnically cleanse
the West Bank for ages and hasn't
		
01:18:12 --> 01:18:15
			found the opportunity, he may say,
I have my solution to
		
01:18:16 --> 01:18:21
			wipe the humiliation off, which is
to exterminate the Palestinians
		
01:18:21 --> 01:18:24
			from Gaza, I've turned off so
there'll be no proof. There'll be
		
01:18:24 --> 01:18:29
			no video from Gaza to say that I
did it. I can always say that they
		
01:18:29 --> 01:18:31
			left willingly, as the Israelis
always say, whenever they take
		
01:18:31 --> 01:18:34
			land, they say, oh, but they left
willingly, which is not true at
		
01:18:34 --> 01:18:39
			all. I think it's a very
frightening thing, a very
		
01:18:39 --> 01:18:45
			frightening concept. I think it's
very much possible. And as I said
		
01:18:45 --> 01:18:47
			before, and I've said it numerous
times, and I hope people will
		
01:18:47 --> 01:18:51
			forgive me for it, I don't know. I
think it's a possibility, but I
		
01:18:51 --> 01:18:54
			think nobody knows. It's all up in
the air. And I think that's the
		
01:18:54 --> 01:18:56
			frightening thing about what could
happen next. Can I ask you about
		
01:18:56 --> 01:19:00
			Pakistan? I mean, when, uh,
normalization between Saudi Arabia
		
01:19:00 --> 01:19:05
			and Israel was on the table. There
was discussion about Saudi Arabia
		
01:19:05 --> 01:19:10
			bringing Pakistan with them to
normalize relations, and there was
		
01:19:10 --> 01:19:14
			some signs that the Army
leadership in Pakistan were
		
01:19:14 --> 01:19:16
			willing to go in that direction.
		
01:19:18 --> 01:19:23
			What's your message to the
Pakistanis about whether that
		
01:19:24 --> 01:19:25
			should ever be allowed.
		
01:19:26 --> 01:19:30
			I think that one of the the
reasons that that rumor, that
		
01:19:30 --> 01:19:33
			suggestion, and when I say rumor,
I'm not saying that it's not true.
		
01:19:34 --> 01:19:36
			I'm saying the reason why people
are really concerned about
		
01:19:36 --> 01:19:39
			Pakistan's stance, because it's
important to understand that in
		
01:19:39 --> 01:19:41
			the Arab world, it's an
unfortunate reality. But there is
		
01:19:41 --> 01:19:43
			a perception in the Arab world
that Arab world that the South
		
01:19:43 --> 01:19:46
			Asians and the Pakistanis and
Indonesians and Malaysians are
		
01:19:46 --> 01:19:50
			Mashallah. Their stance on this is
rock solid. They don't mess around
		
01:19:50 --> 01:19:55
			the way, the way the Arab leaders
do. I think that the rumor was
		
01:19:55 --> 01:19:59
			really fueled by the visit of a
journalist.
		
01:20:00 --> 01:20:03
			Stick delegation that went to
Israel. It was believed that,
		
01:20:03 --> 01:20:06
			apparently, it had been sent by
the Prime Minister's Office. And
		
01:20:06 --> 01:20:08
			then some journalists said, No, it
wasn't an official visit. It was
		
01:20:08 --> 01:20:11
			an unofficial visit. I think that
when it comes to Pakistan, I think
		
01:20:11 --> 01:20:14
			that what's important to highlight
is that
		
01:20:15 --> 01:20:18
			when Imran Khan was prime
minister, one of the things that
		
01:20:18 --> 01:20:22
			really upset the UAE and the
Saudis, quite bluntly, is that at
		
01:20:22 --> 01:20:26
			a time in which Saudi and the UAE
were courting India and courting
		
01:20:26 --> 01:20:30
			Israel, Imran Khan was calling
Emergency sessions on the OIC to
		
01:20:30 --> 01:20:32
			talk about Kashmir, which India
doesn't want to talk about, and
		
01:20:32 --> 01:20:35
			talk about Palestine, which Israel
wasn't talking it wasn't, wasn't,
		
01:20:35 --> 01:20:39
			wasn't keen on and the OIC, when
there's a vote at the end where
		
01:20:39 --> 01:20:42
			the states have to sign, UAE and
Saudi Arabia found themselves very
		
01:20:42 --> 01:20:46
			reluctantly, having to sign off on
draft documents that the Imran
		
01:20:46 --> 01:20:49
			Khan would very passionately write
about the need for the Muslim
		
01:20:49 --> 01:20:52
			consciousness to talk about
Palestine and Kashmir. Some people
		
01:20:52 --> 01:20:54
			criticize Imran Khan and say,
Yeah, but it was all talk and not
		
01:20:54 --> 01:20:59
			action. But I think that if it was
a talk that had no potential, the
		
01:20:59 --> 01:21:04
			Saudis in the UE who not have been
happy, or would have been happy
		
01:21:04 --> 01:21:06
			for him to remain in power. The
fact that they celebrated him
		
01:21:06 --> 01:21:09
			leaving meant that he antagonized
them, and he antagonized them with
		
01:21:09 --> 01:21:12
			his words, because his insistence
on talking about these issues
		
01:21:12 --> 01:21:15
			meant he kept it alive in the
Muslim consciousness. And it's
		
01:21:15 --> 01:21:17
			important to highlight this point
because,
		
01:21:18 --> 01:21:22
			and without exaggeration, the
reason that it upset the Saudi in
		
01:21:22 --> 01:21:25
			the UAE so much was that it
created an environment and a haven
		
01:21:25 --> 01:21:29
			for Pakistan to pursue alternative
alliances to Saudi and the UAE.
		
01:21:29 --> 01:21:31
			You'll remember that in
Azerbaijan, when they liberated
		
01:21:31 --> 01:21:34
			Nagorno Karabakh, there was the
Pakistani flag that was waving
		
01:21:34 --> 01:21:38
			alongside the Azeri flag and the
Turkish flag. And I went to
		
01:21:38 --> 01:21:42
			Azerbaijan a few months back for
in my first visit, first time on
		
01:21:42 --> 01:21:46
			one of the main roads, there's
actually a testament to Pakistan,
		
01:21:46 --> 01:21:49
			celebrating Pakistan's role in its
support for Azerbaijan. That's an
		
01:21:49 --> 01:21:52
			Imran Khan phenomenon, in that
Imran Khan's message was able to
		
01:21:52 --> 01:21:56
			transcend the nationalist rhetoric
of the azaris and the Azeris were
		
01:21:56 --> 01:22:00
			able to look from a more automatic
perspective that is rather unusual
		
01:22:00 --> 01:22:04
			in recent times for the Azeris,
Imran Khan's rhetoric meant that
		
01:22:04 --> 01:22:08
			it gave this idea of a possible
railway from Turkey through Iran
		
01:22:08 --> 01:22:12
			going up towards Pakistan or the
or the like. The idea being is
		
01:22:12 --> 01:22:15
			that the Saudis and the UAE were
concerned that the insistence of
		
01:22:15 --> 01:22:19
			Imran Khan on these issues, that
people were saying were dying as a
		
01:22:19 --> 01:22:22
			result of the actions of Saudi and
the UAE meant that there was this
		
01:22:22 --> 01:22:26
			antagonism, and that's why you
always argue sometimes that Imran
		
01:22:26 --> 01:22:29
			Khan's talk was creating a
potential for Pakistan to be
		
01:22:29 --> 01:22:33
			liberated from the relationship of
dependency that it has on the gold
		
01:22:33 --> 01:22:35
			states, and that his ousting
brought Pakistani back on
		
01:22:35 --> 01:22:38
			dependency. The reason why I start
with all that is not to celebrate
		
01:22:38 --> 01:22:43
			Imran Khan, but to highlight why
the current Pakistani Government
		
01:22:43 --> 01:22:47
			might consider normalization of
ties with Israel, if Saudi does
		
01:22:47 --> 01:22:50
			it. Remember when UAE normalized
with Israel, they brought Bahrain
		
01:22:50 --> 01:22:53
			as a gift, and they brought
Morocco as a gift, and they
		
01:22:53 --> 01:22:56
			brought Sudan as a gift to the
Israelis, to say to the Israelis,
		
01:22:56 --> 01:22:58
			look, I'm bringing all these
people. If Saudi Arabia
		
01:22:58 --> 01:23:02
			normalizes, it will want to bring
the country whose people are most
		
01:23:02 --> 01:23:05
			likely to riot about the idea of
the land of the Two Holy MOS
		
01:23:05 --> 01:23:08
			normalizing ties with Israel. The
reason the current Pakistani
		
01:23:08 --> 01:23:11
			Government might do so is because
where Imran Khan was pursuing
		
01:23:11 --> 01:23:14
			alternative alliances that might
be able to win Pakistan's
		
01:23:14 --> 01:23:18
			dependency on these states that no
longer consider Muslim issues to
		
01:23:18 --> 01:23:21
			be of importance, on these states
that are prioritizing India over
		
01:23:21 --> 01:23:24
			Pakistan, that the price prior to
Israel over Palestine, this
		
01:23:24 --> 01:23:27
			government appeals wholeheartedly
about upholding that relationship
		
01:23:27 --> 01:23:30
			with dependency going to Saudis
and pleading for billions of money
		
01:23:30 --> 01:23:34
			going to the Saudis and giving of
Pakistani assets to the UAE and
		
01:23:34 --> 01:23:37
			the Qataris selling Pakistan for
the sole reason of staying in
		
01:23:37 --> 01:23:41
			power and essentially going along
and aligning Pakistani foreign
		
01:23:41 --> 01:23:45
			policy with the very powers that
Imran Khan refused to align
		
01:23:45 --> 01:23:49
			Pakistan with. So, for example,
when, when Imran Khan refused to
		
01:23:49 --> 01:23:52
			get involved in the Ukraine war,
the reports that Pakistani weapons
		
01:23:52 --> 01:23:55
			have gone to Ukraine in ceding to
the US, when Imran Khan, for
		
01:23:55 --> 01:23:58
			example, contemplated going to the
Kuala Lumpur Summit, Pakistan's
		
01:23:58 --> 01:24:01
			relations with Turkey and Malaysia
are no longer the same as Imran
		
01:24:01 --> 01:24:04
			Khan's relations were with Turkey
and Malaysia that had the
		
01:24:04 --> 01:24:06
			potential to transform the Muslim
ummah and the like the point here
		
01:24:06 --> 01:24:07
			being, is that
		
01:24:08 --> 01:24:10
			I think that for this current
Pakistani leadership,
		
01:24:12 --> 01:24:16
			I think the Muslim causes are less
of an importance to them than it
		
01:24:16 --> 01:24:21
			was to Imran Khan. If you think
that Imran Khan paid the political
		
01:24:21 --> 01:24:25
			price in foreign policy for taking
these stances and still kept doing
		
01:24:25 --> 01:24:29
			it. It shows that this current
government, which is not doing the
		
01:24:29 --> 01:24:32
			speeches that Imran Khan gave,
believe that these Muslim causes
		
01:24:32 --> 01:24:36
			are not worth the political price
that Imran Khan paid, which
		
01:24:36 --> 01:24:40
			suggests that the Pakistanis might
say that if Saudi is doing it, if
		
01:24:40 --> 01:24:44
			Khadim Haramein Sharifa, if sir
things that was quite fascinating
		
01:24:44 --> 01:24:49
			is, and I hope I don't forget the
point. But the point is that when
		
01:24:49 --> 01:24:52
			Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin
Salman went to India for the g20
		
01:24:52 --> 01:24:55
			Summit, he didn't stop in
Pakistan. Usually, when Saudis go
		
01:24:55 --> 01:24:58
			to deal with India, they throw
something to Pakistan to say,
		
01:24:58 --> 01:24:59
			we're still with you this time bin
Salman.
		
01:25:00 --> 01:25:03
			Even bother. It's true, the month
before Khalid, Bin Salman met with
		
01:25:03 --> 01:25:06
			Pakistani generals or the like,
and promised money, which hasn't
		
01:25:06 --> 01:25:09
			come yet. But bin Salman went to
Saudi Arabia. When he went to
		
01:25:09 --> 01:25:13
			Saudi Arabia, there was a very
unusual trend where people were
		
01:25:13 --> 01:25:16
			saying that bin Salman hasn't
stopped in Islamabad because his
		
01:25:16 --> 01:25:20
			heart is broken at what the
Pakistan his heart is broken at
		
01:25:20 --> 01:25:23
			what the Pakistani establishment
is doing to Imran Khan. And
		
01:25:24 --> 01:25:31
			I think it shows how Pakistanis
still view Saudi Arabia, in that
		
01:25:31 --> 01:25:35
			they don't see bin Salman's de
Islamization of Saudi Arabia. They
		
01:25:35 --> 01:25:38
			don't want to believe that bin
Salman might normalize ties with
		
01:25:38 --> 01:25:42
			Israel. They don't want to believe
that the Saudis, you know, the
		
01:25:42 --> 01:25:45
			land of Islam, and the Pakistanis
love the Prophet Muhammad.
		
01:25:45 --> 01:25:47
			SallAllahu said, one of the things
that I found fascinating was that
		
01:25:47 --> 01:25:50
			I went to Konya in Turkey, and I
asked the tour groups, we were
		
01:25:50 --> 01:25:53
			looking for partnerships as part
of me and my wife, we run Halal
		
01:25:53 --> 01:25:56
			travel guide, we're looking for
partners to help us with our
		
01:25:56 --> 01:25:59
			groups. But and we were saying,
Who, where do the customers come
		
01:25:59 --> 01:26:01
			from? She says, it's
overwhelmingly Pakistani. I said,
		
01:26:01 --> 01:26:03
			well, has always been like this.
She said, been like this. She
		
01:26:03 --> 01:26:06
			said, No, since 2019, since
erturle and these their affinity
		
01:26:06 --> 01:26:09
			for Islam is such that they were
visiting every place that they saw
		
01:26:09 --> 01:26:13
			on those shows. They love the
deen. They love Islam, and they
		
01:26:13 --> 01:26:16
			don't want to believe that bin
Salman is trying to de islamite
		
01:26:16 --> 01:26:19
			Saudi Arabia. And this was an
example, the idea that bin Salman
		
01:26:19 --> 01:26:22
			will go to India because his heart
is broken about what Imran Khan
		
01:26:22 --> 01:26:25
			did, which is completely opposite.
The Saudi celebrated that Imran
		
01:26:25 --> 01:26:28
			Khan went, I think that the
Pakistanis will say, and going
		
01:26:28 --> 01:26:31
			back to the point, the reason why
I mentioned is give context that
		
01:26:31 --> 01:26:36
			if Saudi Arabia did it, there must
be something Halal in it. If bin
		
01:26:36 --> 01:26:40
			Salman did it, if the land of you
know these mashayh, you know that
		
01:26:40 --> 01:26:44
			we love and celebrate and the
like, did it, then why is it haram
		
01:26:44 --> 01:26:46
			for Pakistan to do it? Maybe
there's something because they
		
01:26:46 --> 01:26:49
			understand Islam better than us.
I'm not saying this is what
		
01:26:49 --> 01:26:52
			Pakistan is saying. I'm saying
what people might argue right,
		
01:26:52 --> 01:26:56
			that maybe and therefore we should
go along with them or the like.
		
01:26:56 --> 01:26:58
			But the last point that's worth
noting is that
		
01:27:00 --> 01:27:03
			the Pakistani government may be
concerned at a potential backlash,
		
01:27:05 --> 01:27:08
			but the Pakistani government, as
it stands, when you think that at
		
01:27:08 --> 01:27:10
			this moment in time, they are
pulling all the stops and
		
01:27:10 --> 01:27:14
			mobilizing all the institutions
and and bringing out all these
		
01:27:14 --> 01:27:17
			confessions on live television,
Osman dar and these others and the
		
01:27:17 --> 01:27:20
			like to denounce Imran Khan and
trying to prevent Imran Khan from
		
01:27:20 --> 01:27:23
			running In elections in PTI and
the like, because they're worried
		
01:27:23 --> 01:27:25
			that they might replicate the
landslide victories in Punjab or
		
01:27:25 --> 01:27:25
			the like.
		
01:27:27 --> 01:27:30
			It appears that the government
believes that it has the means
		
01:27:30 --> 01:27:32
			through which to suppress the
people and suppress any backlash.
		
01:27:32 --> 01:27:35
			They'll be thinking, if we can do
it to Imran Khan, if we can
		
01:27:35 --> 01:27:38
			prevent Imran Khan from running in
elections and politically engineer
		
01:27:38 --> 01:27:41
			a result, we can handle any
backlash with regards to
		
01:27:41 --> 01:27:44
			normalization of ties with Israel
and the like. I think Saudi Arabia
		
01:27:44 --> 01:27:48
			is contemplating bringing Pakistan
as a gift, but I still think when
		
01:27:48 --> 01:27:51
			you look at the way that the
Pakistani establishment is still
		
01:27:51 --> 01:27:56
			struggling to indict Imran Khan on
any of the 200 plus charges that
		
01:27:56 --> 01:28:00
			done Imran Khan, it suggests that
the establishment are still facing
		
01:28:00 --> 01:28:03
			stumbling blocks. And the only
stumbling block they have, in
		
01:28:03 --> 01:28:06
			reality, is public opinion, which
suggests that Pakistani public
		
01:28:06 --> 01:28:08
			opinion still matters. Yes, so I
think that the rumor, I think
		
01:28:08 --> 01:28:11
			there's some truth to them. Yeah,
whether the Pakistani government
		
01:28:11 --> 01:28:14
			will do it, it depends how much
Vincent man gives them, I guess.
		
01:28:15 --> 01:28:16
			Finally, Sammy,
		
01:28:18 --> 01:28:21
			you and I from from countries
which are pretty much in a mess.
		
01:28:21 --> 01:28:26
			You're from Tunisia, and Tunisia
has been run by a deranged
		
01:28:26 --> 01:28:31
			dictator. I'm sorry to say that,
and I'm from India, and Muslims
		
01:28:31 --> 01:28:35
			are being persecuted in India and
actually around the world. We're
		
01:28:35 --> 01:28:41
			bound by our automatic unity. We
see ourselves as being beyond our
		
01:28:41 --> 01:28:45
			forged nation states, we see
ourselves bound by this al Qaeda,
		
01:28:45 --> 01:28:49
			and we are one as an ummah, and we
feel that Palestinian is not
		
01:28:49 --> 01:28:54
			because we believe in some anti
imperious left wing struggle, but
		
01:28:54 --> 01:28:58
			we believe that these people are
our people, and Palestine is our
		
01:28:58 --> 01:29:03
			land, and Al Quds is blessed
because ALLAH blessed Al Quds and
		
01:29:03 --> 01:29:07
			you demonstrated that in in the
last discussion we had, but there
		
01:29:07 --> 01:29:12
			is a sense of hopelessness today.
You know, we are in a situation
		
01:29:12 --> 01:29:17
			where, but umatic Unity is in our
minds, but it's not demonstrated
		
01:29:17 --> 01:29:21
			anywhere in our leaderships. It's
not demonstrated. You know, maybe
		
01:29:21 --> 01:29:25
			there are a few green shoots. As
you mentioned, Imran Khan,
		
01:29:25 --> 01:29:28
			possibly, you know, there are some
green shoots. Mahat al Muhammad
		
01:29:28 --> 01:29:31
			gave a very good comment,
actually, on, you know, as you may
		
01:29:31 --> 01:29:34
			have read on, on the Gaza
conflict, which, you know, should
		
01:29:34 --> 01:29:40
			be praised. But these are small
green shoots. The political
		
01:29:41 --> 01:29:46
			tendency is moving away from what
you and I believe in, and what
		
01:29:46 --> 01:29:49
			should i We believe most Muslims
believe in? Is there a hope in
		
01:29:49 --> 01:29:51
			this very bleak time?
		
01:29:52 --> 01:29:57
			I think that sometimes I
understand where Muslims come from
		
01:29:57 --> 01:29:59
			when they present the bleak or.
		
01:30:00 --> 01:30:04
			They argue that the situation
looks bleak. I know, in our first
		
01:30:04 --> 01:30:07
			podcast, we delved into this, but
I also want to present another
		
01:30:07 --> 01:30:09
			angle that perhaps I didn't
present it in that first podcast
		
01:30:10 --> 01:30:13
			that we did, the raving iriyad
one, which is that, let's look at
		
01:30:13 --> 01:30:16
			the individual countries. If you
look at Turkey, for example,
		
01:30:16 --> 01:30:22
			Ataturk comes in and dissolves the
Ottoman Empire. Atatek struggles
		
01:30:22 --> 01:30:25
			to win Turkish support. The
Anatolians distrust him, so he
		
01:30:25 --> 01:30:29
			calls on Sheik Ahmad Sanusi of
Libya, invites him to Turkey to do
		
01:30:29 --> 01:30:33
			a tour of Anatolia. And he walks
with Ahmad SANUS. He calls him a
		
01:30:33 --> 01:30:37
			Razi fisabi de la and that's what
gets the Turks to follow. Ataturk
		
01:30:37 --> 01:30:40
			is aware of that. So after he
liberates Turkey, because Ataturk
		
01:30:40 --> 01:30:43
			did fight. We shouldn't deny that
when we're after Turkey is
		
01:30:43 --> 01:30:46
			liberated. He crushes those
elements because he's aware that
		
01:30:46 --> 01:30:49
			they weren't willing to follow
Him. They followed him only
		
01:30:49 --> 01:30:53
			because the ummatic connection
with Ahmad sinusi, his
		
01:30:53 --> 01:30:56
			endorsement, a non Turks
endorsement, encourage the
		
01:30:56 --> 01:31:00
			Anatolians, the Turks, to follow
atatek. So he crushes the Muslim
		
01:31:00 --> 01:31:03
			movement. He changes the event to
Turkish. He bans the printing of
		
01:31:03 --> 01:31:06
			the Quran, or his followers ban
the printing of the Quran. And he
		
01:31:06 --> 01:31:09
			changes the Turkish language from
Arabic alphabet to English or the
		
01:31:09 --> 01:31:12
			like. He suppresses the scholars,
and then he goes to the Kurds, and
		
01:31:12 --> 01:31:15
			he utterly smashes them, the Kurds
who revolt on the basis of Islam,
		
01:31:15 --> 01:31:19
			not of independence. I know Turks
won't like to hear it, but I
		
01:31:19 --> 01:31:23
			always argue that you know when
you tell a population they can't
		
01:31:23 --> 01:31:26
			speak their language and can't
express their culture. 4050, years
		
01:31:26 --> 01:31:29
			later, a separatist movement is
going to eventually emerge. It's
		
01:31:29 --> 01:31:32
			not, it's not rocket science.
Ahmad bin Abu Aziz once was asked,
		
01:31:32 --> 01:31:35
			they said to my have an unruly
group of people, send me more
		
01:31:35 --> 01:31:38
			troops to crush them. And Aziz
Anhu replied, you know, Hassan
		
01:31:38 --> 01:31:42
			Habil Adel, fortify your area with
justice. You don't need my troops.
		
01:31:42 --> 01:31:45
			You need justice here. That might
upset some first person on the
		
01:31:45 --> 01:31:48
			point, but the point is that so a
crushes all these Islamic
		
01:31:48 --> 01:31:53
			sentiments or the like. But even
within crushing there, the mosques
		
01:31:53 --> 01:31:56
			and the ulama and the Muslims
operating in those harsh
		
01:31:56 --> 01:31:59
			environments deliver Adnan
mandares to power, and then
		
01:31:59 --> 01:32:02
			Mandela changes the Quran from
Turkish back to Arabic. Military
		
01:32:02 --> 01:32:04
			gets angry, and they launch a
coup, but they can't change the
		
01:32:04 --> 01:32:08
			Adhan back. Muslims are oppressed.
80s, another coup. And then it
		
01:32:08 --> 01:32:11
			gets to 90s. The Muslims through
their work, through their
		
01:32:11 --> 01:32:16
			tawariya, through their education
and the like, they deliver Erbakan
		
01:32:16 --> 01:32:20
			to the Premiership. Nash Medin,
Erbakan, the fruit of his people
		
01:32:20 --> 01:32:22
			always think, Oh, these just
polish. No, these are movements.
		
01:32:22 --> 01:32:26
			Erbakan becomes prime minister.
He's accused of islamizing the
		
01:32:26 --> 01:32:29
			state. He's toppled, but five
years or six years later, Erdogan
		
01:32:29 --> 01:32:33
			comes to power and transforms the
face of Turkey. Whatever people
		
01:32:33 --> 01:32:36
			comes and we all have our issues
with Erdogan, but Turkey has been
		
01:32:36 --> 01:32:41
			transformed in the Algerian
liberation in the 1920s a movement
		
01:32:41 --> 01:32:44
			emerged in Algeria that said that
we shouldn't fight the colonizers
		
01:32:44 --> 01:32:48
			anymore. We should be part of
France. And I don't recognize the
		
01:32:48 --> 01:32:52
			Algerian state as Farhat Abbas, in
particular, he led the movement. I
		
01:32:52 --> 01:32:55
			don't know of anything called
Algeria, and I am arguing for
		
01:32:55 --> 01:32:58
			French rights within France.
France should stay but should give
		
01:32:58 --> 01:33:02
			us equal rights. The reason that
movement emerged is because in
		
01:33:02 --> 01:33:05
			there was a group of Algerians in
Algeria who believed that the
		
01:33:05 --> 01:33:09
			French had been there for so long,
for 100 years, that there is no
		
01:33:09 --> 01:33:12
			way they're ever going to leave
Algeria. So we should just accept
		
01:33:12 --> 01:33:16
			that this is the situation. There
was a shirk Abdul Hamid bin bedis
		
01:33:16 --> 01:33:20
			who set up, was called the Jamaica
Muslim, who set up the the Council
		
01:33:20 --> 01:33:25
			of Islamic scholars, which was not
a political movement. What it did
		
01:33:25 --> 01:33:28
			was, was that it set up in every
place, like Azariah, like not a
		
01:33:28 --> 01:33:31
			Sufi order. People shouldn't
confuse area with the areas in the
		
01:33:31 --> 01:33:35
			Sufi order, but set up these
schools where people would be
		
01:33:35 --> 01:33:39
			educated in Islamic history. And
the Quran reminding the Algerian
		
01:33:39 --> 01:33:43
			people who felt the despair about
Allah, the victories that he gives
		
01:33:43 --> 01:33:47
			the people who came before us,
reteaching that history to a
		
01:33:47 --> 01:33:50
			people who had lost despair and
hopelessness. And the French
		
01:33:50 --> 01:33:54
			records argue that Abdul Hamid
bimbadis, even though he never
		
01:33:54 --> 01:33:57
			made a political statement except
that Algeria is Muslim and belongs
		
01:33:57 --> 01:34:03
			to Ummat Muhammad, Abdul Hamid
bimbadis revived or gave renewed
		
01:34:03 --> 01:34:08
			hope to this identity that led to
liberation. 40 years later, the
		
01:34:08 --> 01:34:11
			French were kicked out. I think
that when you look at the
		
01:34:11 --> 01:34:14
			individual countries, Pakistan,
for example, Pakistan was part of
		
01:34:14 --> 01:34:17
			India. India was part under the
British rule, the Hindus decided
		
01:34:17 --> 01:34:19
			to persecute the Muslims and the
Brit they didn't know what to do.
		
01:34:19 --> 01:34:22
			Eventually, the Muslims managed to
separate and establish the
		
01:34:22 --> 01:34:25
			inhibits. Establish the
Independent State of Pakistan,
		
01:34:25 --> 01:34:27
			regardless what you think of
Muhammad Ali Jinnah later on, I
		
01:34:27 --> 01:34:30
			know Pakistanis revere him or the
like, but I think Muhammad, as it
		
01:34:30 --> 01:34:32
			in his book, argues that he was
concerned that when the Saudis
		
01:34:32 --> 01:34:35
			sent him to help write the
constitution, he felt the
		
01:34:35 --> 01:34:38
			Pakistanis were not too keen on
Islamic rule or the policy makers
		
01:34:38 --> 01:34:42
			at the time, even if the people
were. But regardless, Pakistan,
		
01:34:42 --> 01:34:45
			you look at its development and
the upheaval, or the like we're
		
01:34:45 --> 01:34:48
			talking today about the potential
normalization, and I said to you
		
01:34:48 --> 01:34:51
			that the Pakistanis are unlikely
to accept there's a fear that the
		
01:34:51 --> 01:34:54
			Pakistan, because they love Islam,
they love the Saudis, that hasn't
		
01:34:54 --> 01:34:57
			been ruined. And I think that
Imran Khan is not something that
		
01:34:57 --> 01:34:59
			happened in a vacuum. The Imran
Khan phenomenon came about, but.
		
01:35:00 --> 01:35:02
			Because the Pakistanis backed him,
because they believe, rightly or
		
01:35:02 --> 01:35:06
			wrongly, is irrelevant. The
Pakistanis believed that somebody
		
01:35:06 --> 01:35:10
			who was a Muslim ambassador on the
global stage is worth fighting
		
01:35:10 --> 01:35:12
			for. When you speak to Pakistanis,
why do you support Imran Khan?
		
01:35:13 --> 01:35:16
			They don't mention economy. They
don't mention politics. They
		
01:35:16 --> 01:35:19
			mentioned he stood up for Muslim
Rights against the superpowers.
		
01:35:19 --> 01:35:21
			Whether he did it or not,
effectively is irrelevant. That's
		
01:35:21 --> 01:35:25
			what resonated for Pakistanis to
take to the streets and provide
		
01:35:25 --> 01:35:27
			the greatest threat to the
political establishment since
		
01:35:27 --> 01:35:31
			Pakistan's inception. The point
here being is that people always
		
01:35:31 --> 01:35:34
			talk about big political
movements, but I think what
		
01:35:34 --> 01:35:38
			they're more upset about, they're
more upset that Allah has chosen a
		
01:35:38 --> 01:35:41
			course that's not the course that
they wanted, that Allah has chosen
		
01:35:41 --> 01:35:44
			a course for the development of
the Muslim political movement that
		
01:35:44 --> 01:35:48
			they don't want. And that's why I
think sometimes that when you
		
01:35:48 --> 01:35:51
			remember that Allah is in control,
and Allah rewards and punishes as
		
01:35:51 --> 01:35:54
			He wills, that Allah, subhanaw
taala, sent Noah to his people,
		
01:35:54 --> 01:35:56
			and for over 900 years, he's
calling to them, and he still
		
01:35:56 --> 01:35:59
			destroyed Noah's people. This is
why, when the Prophet said, Shay
		
01:35:59 --> 01:36:03
			abut ni Hu Dara, the surah of
Surat HUD, hashey Abani giving me
		
01:36:03 --> 01:36:06
			white hairs, because in Surat HUD,
you see all the examples where
		
01:36:06 --> 01:36:10
			Allah reminds you that success
comes from him. I sent Salah to
		
01:36:10 --> 01:36:14
			tamud and samoud didn't believe. I
destroyed them. I sent hood to
		
01:36:14 --> 01:36:17
			add, and Allah destroyed him.
Didn't listen to hood. I sent
		
01:36:17 --> 01:36:20
			Shuaib to median. Median didn't
listen. I destroyed them one by
		
01:36:20 --> 01:36:23
			one, because Muhammad SAW Salim
was realizing that Allah was
		
01:36:23 --> 01:36:25
			saying that I'm ready to destroy
these people when I said the
		
01:36:25 --> 01:36:29
			message, the point here being is
that I think that when you look at
		
01:36:29 --> 01:36:32
			the way the Israelis are
approaching the Palestine issue,
		
01:36:32 --> 01:36:36
			the Israelis were convinced
Palestine was dying. They were
		
01:36:36 --> 01:36:38
			convinced, or they are, they were
convinced that they were on the
		
01:36:38 --> 01:36:43
			cusp of finally eradicating the
Palestinians. Look at the mood
		
01:36:43 --> 01:36:46
			last week and compare it to the
mood today. With regards to the
		
01:36:46 --> 01:36:50
			Palestinian cause, it's roaring,
Muhammad, it's roaring even though
		
01:36:50 --> 01:36:54
			Israel is pummeling Gaza. It's
roaring even though there is a
		
01:36:54 --> 01:36:57
			death toll in Gaza. Because
everybody is saying that the cause
		
01:36:57 --> 01:37:01
			is alive, and it's been proven to
us here. Because the reality is
		
01:37:01 --> 01:37:05
			that success doesn't come on your
terms. The striving is on your
		
01:37:05 --> 01:37:08
			terms, whether you choose to
strive or not. But the success
		
01:37:08 --> 01:37:11
			comes from Allah subhanahu wa he
gave victory to the Prophet
		
01:37:11 --> 01:37:14
			Muhammad Sallallahu Salla, but not
necessarily to the people of Nur.
		
01:37:14 --> 01:37:17
			And I think sometimes we Muslims
need to appreciate that and remind
		
01:37:17 --> 01:37:20
			ourselves what is our ultimate
goal here, which is Jannah. We are
		
01:37:20 --> 01:37:24
			travelers in this dunya. We go
past this dunya to give dawah to
		
01:37:24 --> 01:37:27
			call people to what is right. And
some people pay a heavier price
		
01:37:27 --> 01:37:30
			than others. Some people are
prevented from going to capitals,
		
01:37:30 --> 01:37:32
			prevented from going to Mecca,
Medina, prevented from going to
		
01:37:32 --> 01:37:35
			Cairo or the like, because they
are calling out for that which is
		
01:37:35 --> 01:37:38
			good. Allah gives people different
degrees of power. Somebody, his
		
01:37:38 --> 01:37:42
			only power is to retweet. And
retweeting fixes the algorithm so
		
01:37:42 --> 01:37:45
			that the algorithm promotes the
tweet so more people see it.
		
01:37:45 --> 01:37:48
			That's power. Some people are
given positions of media platforms
		
01:37:48 --> 01:37:51
			where we can convey our messages,
where you can bring Sammy to talk,
		
01:37:51 --> 01:37:53
			or bring Paul Williams or these
other some people are blessed with
		
01:37:53 --> 01:37:56
			power over an army. Some people
are blessed with foreign ministry.
		
01:37:56 --> 01:37:59
			Some people are blessed with
everyone has their own individual
		
01:37:59 --> 01:38:01
			power. And that's why I think
that, oh, when you look at the
		
01:38:01 --> 01:38:02
			Muslim ummah,
		
01:38:03 --> 01:38:07
			how 90 or 100 years after the
Khilafah was toppled, after the
		
01:38:07 --> 01:38:11
			Ottoman Empire fell, when you look
at how they didn't give up, the
		
01:38:11 --> 01:38:14
			text delivered, that's why
Erdogan. So people say sometimes
		
01:38:14 --> 01:38:17
			Sami or soft and Erdogan, it's not
the time soft and Erdogan. He
		
01:38:17 --> 01:38:22
			said, I appreciate the efforts of
the Muslim community, who believed
		
01:38:22 --> 01:38:26
			in Allah, who feel the same way we
do, who feel they belong to an
		
01:38:26 --> 01:38:30
			ummah. I appreciate the sacrifices
they gave when they went to
		
01:38:30 --> 01:38:33
			prison, when they were tortured,
when they were executed, when they
		
01:38:33 --> 01:38:36
			strived to teach the Quran, when
they kept the Quran in its
		
01:38:36 --> 01:38:38
			language to teach the people, when
they gave the Advent in Arabic,
		
01:38:38 --> 01:38:42
			when they would hide in their
circles in order to teach Islam. I
		
01:38:42 --> 01:38:46
			appreciate that. I appreciate that
the Erdogan is the latest in this
		
01:38:46 --> 01:38:50
			chapter to break the chains of
atatek. I appreciate that I'm not
		
01:38:50 --> 01:38:53
			the one to come today to destroy
it. I appreciate that in Pakistan,
		
01:38:53 --> 01:38:56
			for all of the efforts of the
establishment to control the
		
01:38:56 --> 01:39:00
			Pakistani people and make them
ignore Muslim causes, I appreciate
		
01:39:00 --> 01:39:04
			that despite Pakistan being in an
economic crisis, they come out in
		
01:39:04 --> 01:39:07
			force for Palestine because they
resonate with Al Quds and they
		
01:39:07 --> 01:39:11
			resonate with the Palestinians. I
appreciate that the Bengalis who
		
01:39:11 --> 01:39:14
			have been persecuted, they're
ulama, imprisoned, tortured. They
		
01:39:14 --> 01:39:17
			die in prison for the because they
love Allah and they love the
		
01:39:17 --> 01:39:22
			Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu Sen. I
appreciate that they in what we
		
01:39:22 --> 01:39:26
			call bleak they gave their lives
and they gave their struggles for
		
01:39:26 --> 01:39:29
			it that despite Khalid azi and
Sheik Hasina and these leaders in
		
01:39:29 --> 01:39:33
			power, the Bengalis come out in
force to protect the honor of the
		
01:39:33 --> 01:39:37
			Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alayhi
wa sallam, in huge numbers when
		
01:39:37 --> 01:39:40
			Macron is trying to defend it, to
say anything but our beloved
		
01:39:40 --> 01:39:43
			prophet, Muhammad, sallAllahu,
alayhi wa sallam. And that's why I
		
01:39:43 --> 01:39:46
			think sometimes, and I said it in
the first podcast, I think
		
01:39:46 --> 01:39:49
			sometimes when Allah says, were
entered Allah, that when you count
		
01:39:49 --> 01:39:52
			the blessings of Allah, you can't
finish counting them. I think
		
01:39:52 --> 01:39:54
			those who say are bleak. They
haven't started counting the
		
01:39:54 --> 01:39:57
			blessings of Allah. They have
tried. When Lindsey Graham, the US
		
01:39:57 --> 01:39:59
			senator, says, this is a
religious.
		
01:40:00 --> 01:40:03
			War. It's a religious war against
Islam, because they believe we
		
01:40:03 --> 01:40:06
			believe that we are somehow being
defeated. They believe that
		
01:40:06 --> 01:40:09
			despite all the efforts,
colonization, the state of our
		
01:40:09 --> 01:40:13
			weaponry, we still can't quash
this ideology. Sammy is born in
		
01:40:13 --> 01:40:16
			London, and he loves Allah, and
His Prophet, Muhammad, lives in
		
01:40:16 --> 01:40:19
			London. He loves Allah and His
Prophet. Abu Muslims are growing
		
01:40:19 --> 01:40:22
			in and they sympathize, which will
Abraham and wants to ban the
		
01:40:22 --> 01:40:26
			waving of the Palestinian flag,
because she said, How can these
		
01:40:26 --> 01:40:30
			people still resonate with that?
And the reason they resonate and
		
01:40:30 --> 01:40:32
			I, and I tell Muslims to be
careful here.
		
01:40:33 --> 01:40:41
			Allah subhanahu, WA Dutt, Wahab
allahuma, do not turn our hearts
		
01:40:41 --> 01:40:45
			away from this Deen, after you
have guided us, Wahab qarama and
		
01:40:45 --> 01:40:48
			bestow upon us Your Mercy,
implying that you could be turned
		
01:40:48 --> 01:40:51
			away from this religion, implying
that the ingratitude to Allah
		
01:40:51 --> 01:40:54
			subhanaw taala could lead you out
of this religion, implying that
		
01:40:54 --> 01:40:56
			your lack of appreciation of Allah
subhanaw taala could lead you out
		
01:40:56 --> 01:40:59
			of this religion. When the Prophet
Muhammad, sallAllahu, sallam said
		
01:40:59 --> 01:41:02
			yamuqa ibn Qul sab kal bihadina
And the Prophet knew he was the
		
01:41:02 --> 01:41:05
			what he knew her. He'd seen the
seven heavens. He'd gone to Al
		
01:41:05 --> 01:41:08
			Aqsa, and he said, Allah, don't
turn my heart away from this.
		
01:41:08 --> 01:41:11
			Deen, implying, yeah, Allah, I
know that it's a blessing and a
		
01:41:11 --> 01:41:15
			mercy from you that I follow this.
Deen, I know that it's not a
		
01:41:15 --> 01:41:18
			right. It's a privilege that you
guided my heart and you put it
		
01:41:18 --> 01:41:21
			here. I think that the reaction of
the Muslim should be Subhan,
		
01:41:21 --> 01:41:25
			Allah. I recognize your authority.
I read Surat hood, and I know that
		
01:41:25 --> 01:41:28
			at any moment, you can destroy any
population, as you will, Allah, I
		
01:41:28 --> 01:41:31
			know that you can deal with
success to anybody that you will,
		
01:41:31 --> 01:41:34
			and as this is why sometimes, I
always argue, from my own
		
01:41:34 --> 01:41:37
			political analysis, being involved
in politics, being involved in
		
01:41:37 --> 01:41:41
			advising policy makers. I've been
in this industry now for for over
		
01:41:41 --> 01:41:44
			a decade, and I've seen that
policy makers, they don't know it
		
01:41:44 --> 01:41:48
			all. They don't they are just as
confused often as you are. They
		
01:41:48 --> 01:41:50
			are just as clueless as you are,
sometimes, and you realize there
		
01:41:50 --> 01:41:54
			are so many opportunities to turn
the levers, to turn the ledgers. A
		
01:41:54 --> 01:41:57
			public opinion is making Vincent
man backtrack on his rhetoric
		
01:41:57 --> 01:42:00
			regarding normalization. Public
Opinion made Erdogan go back to
		
01:42:00 --> 01:42:03
			lambasting Israel after he did a
humiliating stance where he was
		
01:42:03 --> 01:42:07
			like, we call for restraint, with
making Erdogan back down because
		
01:42:07 --> 01:42:10
			of public opinion, because Allah
has given every human being the
		
01:42:10 --> 01:42:14
			ability to make a difference.
Those who say it's bleak are
		
01:42:14 --> 01:42:17
			people who don't know how to use
that power, and that's why I think
		
01:42:17 --> 01:42:21
			sometimes it's less about what,
where are these people, and where
		
01:42:21 --> 01:42:23
			are these political movements? And
more about if it's not there,
		
01:42:23 --> 01:42:26
			started, if it's there, amplify
it. What can you do within the
		
01:42:26 --> 01:42:29
			powers that Allah has given you?
That's why sometimes you talk
		
01:42:29 --> 01:42:32
			about thinking Muslim Allah has
blessed you. Muhammad, hundreds of
		
01:42:32 --> 01:42:35
			1000s of people are watching your
videos. But why are they watching
		
01:42:35 --> 01:42:38
			your videos? They're watching
because they believe that in these
		
01:42:38 --> 01:42:41
			videos they are receiving
information and guidance on how
		
01:42:41 --> 01:42:45
			they can deploy their power. Allah
has given you that power to do so
		
01:42:45 --> 01:42:48
			at the moment, that's your place
within this ecosystem that we have
		
01:42:48 --> 01:42:51
			in order to try to promote these
Islamic movements. And that's why
		
01:42:51 --> 01:42:55
			I think that sometimes, and I
won't go on too long about it,
		
01:42:55 --> 01:42:58
			Muslims should be aware of the
arrogance of the heart, the
		
01:42:58 --> 01:43:02
			arrogance that says that if I
didn't do it, it's not good if I
		
01:43:02 --> 01:43:05
			didn't do it, it's not worth it. I
look at, for example, in Pakistan,
		
01:43:05 --> 01:43:08
			and may the brothers Forgive me,
because, because I know a lot of
		
01:43:08 --> 01:43:11
			them, when I look at Jami had
Islami, for example, and their
		
01:43:11 --> 01:43:14
			silence on Imran Khan, I think a
lot of that silence, and I know
		
01:43:14 --> 01:43:17
			they would be very angry with me
on this, I think a lot of their
		
01:43:17 --> 01:43:20
			silence is that we spent decades
being the Muslim representatives.
		
01:43:20 --> 01:43:23
			How dare an ampstar like Imran
Khan come and suddenly take the
		
01:43:23 --> 01:43:26
			leadership away from us? I think
that the reality is that we should
		
01:43:26 --> 01:43:29
			be wary of this arrogance of the
heart, which suggests that I have
		
01:43:29 --> 01:43:32
			to be on the podium. And that's
why I think that Allah, Subhanahu
		
01:43:32 --> 01:43:35
			wa, if you think about it, the
greatest thing you can give to
		
01:43:35 --> 01:43:39
			Allah is the sacrifice, not the
goal. The Prophets didn't manage
		
01:43:39 --> 01:43:42
			to convince all of their people,
only a few managed to convince
		
01:43:42 --> 01:43:46
			Allah didn't reward them for the
number of people they managed to
		
01:43:46 --> 01:43:50
			win over to Allah. Allah rewarded
them because they kept going even
		
01:43:50 --> 01:43:53
			when it looked bleak. We have duas
in the Quran where the prophet
		
01:43:53 --> 01:43:55
			saying, Yeah, Allah, have had
enough for them. I had enough for
		
01:43:55 --> 01:44:01
			them. Canada, far you see some
AMITA no hen Surat nor is
		
01:44:01 --> 01:44:05
			describing how much he's tried to
convince them, and in the end, he
		
01:44:05 --> 01:44:10
			says, Forget it. They are. They
are useless. The prophets are, but
		
01:44:10 --> 01:44:12
			Allah is rewarding them for their
striving and their effort. And
		
01:44:12 --> 01:44:15
			that's why I think that sometimes,
to answer your question, I know
		
01:44:15 --> 01:44:20
			that it looks bleak, but I promise
you that those who stand against
		
01:44:20 --> 01:44:23
			the Muslims do not believe we're
in a bleak position. We might
		
01:44:23 --> 01:44:26
			think that we are becoming a
defeated people. But I promise
		
01:44:26 --> 01:44:28
			you, in Washington, they don't
think Muslims are becoming a
		
01:44:28 --> 01:44:30
			defeated people. In Washington,
they're debating, why is it that
		
01:44:30 --> 01:44:34
			after 90 years of top down
secularism, after 90 years of
		
01:44:34 --> 01:44:38
			giving them raves, of spreading
alcohol, of bringing them girls in
		
01:44:38 --> 01:44:41
			bikinis, of giving them beaches
and giving them financing and IMF
		
01:44:41 --> 01:44:44
			loans and the like. Why is it
after 90 years, they still vote
		
01:44:44 --> 01:44:47
			for Islamic leaning parties? They
consider that a failure. Why is it
		
01:44:47 --> 01:44:50
			that Erdogan wins election after
election, not because of the
		
01:44:50 --> 01:44:53
			economy, but because people are
terrified that the other side is
		
01:44:53 --> 01:44:57
			anti Islamic? Let's be blunt here.
Erdogan won the last election, not
		
01:44:57 --> 01:44:59
			because of the economy. Erdogan
won the last election.
		
01:45:00 --> 01:45:02
			Because Muslims were terrified.
The other party was anti Islamic.
		
01:45:03 --> 01:45:05
			This is in Turkey, which is
considered the king of secularism.
		
01:45:06 --> 01:45:08
			And this is why I think that
sometimes for Muslims, when
		
01:45:08 --> 01:45:11
			Muslims talk about the bleak
future, the reality is that, look,
		
01:45:12 --> 01:45:16
			you are the only one who sees it
bleak. You are the only one who
		
01:45:16 --> 01:45:18
			thinks we are being defeated.
Everybody else thinks we're in
		
01:45:18 --> 01:45:21
			descendancy. Everybody else thinks
we're not being extinguished.
		
01:45:21 --> 01:45:24
			Everybody else is trying. The
French are saying, how on earth
		
01:45:24 --> 01:45:27
			why we are? We are the civilizing
mission. Why do they still hold on
		
01:45:27 --> 01:45:30
			to these principles? Why is it
that when we went into countries
		
01:45:30 --> 01:45:34
			in Africa, they didn't adopt our
religion or our values, but when
		
01:45:34 --> 01:45:38
			Islam entered, it never left.
Islam entered Algeria in the seven
		
01:45:38 --> 01:45:41
			hundreds, it never left. When the
Algerians celebrated liberation.
		
01:45:41 --> 01:45:44
			They didn't say, we are
celebrating the Algerian state.
		
01:45:44 --> 01:45:49
			They yelled, Ya Muhammad, Mabrouk,
Alik Al Jazeera, Raja, aliq, Ya
		
01:45:49 --> 01:45:51
			Muhammad, Prophet Muhammad.
SallAllahu, sallam,
		
01:45:52 --> 01:45:58
			congratulations. Algeria has been
returned to you. That's how the
		
01:45:58 --> 01:46:01
			ideology penetrated the heart and
stayed there. And that's why Ibn
		
01:46:01 --> 01:46:06
			Khaldun says a civilization is not
destroyed when it is physically
		
01:46:06 --> 01:46:09
			destroyed. Is destroyed when it's
mentally destroyed, it's destroyed
		
01:46:09 --> 01:46:13
			when it's psychology is destroyed.
And that's what colonizers are so
		
01:46:13 --> 01:46:17
			angry about that. Why is it it
still stays in these hearts? Why
		
01:46:17 --> 01:46:20
			is it more Europeans are becoming
Muslims? Why is it more Americans
		
01:46:20 --> 01:46:23
			are becoming Muslims. Why is it
that when these scholars go to
		
01:46:23 --> 01:46:26
			debate Christians in the Spencer
show, I don't know his full name
		
01:46:26 --> 01:46:29
			or the like, why is it that I can
that the Christian identifies more
		
01:46:29 --> 01:46:31
			with Muslims nowadays? It's
because the message is
		
01:46:31 --> 01:46:35
			resoundingly clear, because it's a
message that didn't come from you
		
01:46:35 --> 01:46:37
			who thinks it's bleak, not you
specifically, but But you who
		
01:46:37 --> 01:46:41
			thinks it's bleak. It came from
Allah subhanahu wa, taala, master
		
01:46:41 --> 01:46:44
			of the seven heavens and the
earth, who decides what he wishes,
		
01:46:44 --> 01:46:48
			does what he wants when he wants.
And the greatest honor is in not
		
01:46:48 --> 01:46:50
			telling Allah. This is the course
you should do. The honor is Ya
		
01:46:50 --> 01:46:54
			Allah, keep me on this Deen, and
let me be the vehicle through
		
01:46:54 --> 01:46:57
			which you express your will. This
is the greatest honor. The way I
		
01:46:57 --> 01:47:01
			see it is the Muslim promise to
finish on this point. The way I
		
01:47:01 --> 01:47:04
			see it is this, the Muslim who
says it's bleak, look at what you
		
01:47:04 --> 01:47:04
			can do
		
01:47:05 --> 01:47:09
			if you if you have the ability to
share or retweet somebody in a
		
01:47:09 --> 01:47:12
			brain in a higher position of
power. Do it. If you can go pray
		
01:47:12 --> 01:47:15
			in the mosque. Do it. People who
notice Muslims going in and out,
		
01:47:15 --> 01:47:17
			and they start asking the
question, Who are these Muslims
		
01:47:17 --> 01:47:20
			going out? If you can go and
organize the stars, go and
		
01:47:20 --> 01:47:23
			organize their stars. Give dawah.
Give dawah woman as there is no
		
01:47:23 --> 01:47:28
			better speech than one who calls
to Allah subhanahu wa sometimes
		
01:47:28 --> 01:47:31
			like to lash out at people, but we
forget, and this is why I brought
		
01:47:31 --> 01:47:34
			this point about Rabban Allah to
zikulu banner. If you appreciate
		
01:47:34 --> 01:47:37
			that ALLAH blessed you with
guidance and that he can take this
		
01:47:37 --> 01:47:40
			guidance away, you will take care
of your guidance much more. You
		
01:47:40 --> 01:47:43
			will start looking at your
guidance and saying, How can I
		
01:47:43 --> 01:47:46
			show my appreciation for this
guidance? And the way you show the
		
01:47:46 --> 01:47:49
			appreciation is to try to guide
other people. To say, Allah, I
		
01:47:49 --> 01:47:51
			love your message, so I'm going to
say it so to answer your question
		
01:47:51 --> 01:47:54
			briefly, and I promise I'm going
to finish on this point. To answer
		
01:47:54 --> 01:47:57
			your question briefly, when I look
at Turkey, when I look at
		
01:47:57 --> 01:48:00
			Pakistan, when I look at the
proliferation of mosques in the
		
01:48:00 --> 01:48:03
			UK, when I look at the defiance of
the Muslims in France that they
		
01:48:03 --> 01:48:06
			are still growing despite the
crackdown on France, when I see
		
01:48:06 --> 01:48:09
			Malaysia and how it preserves its
Muslim identity, when I see that
		
01:48:09 --> 01:48:12
			China is concerned about the
growth of Islam in China, when I
		
01:48:12 --> 01:48:14
			see that African nations are
increasingly turning to Islam
		
01:48:14 --> 01:48:17
			because they see it as a
liberating religion. When I see
		
01:48:17 --> 01:48:19
			that Mali resonates more with
Turkey because of the Muslim
		
01:48:19 --> 01:48:22
			connection than it does with
France, with which it speaks the
		
01:48:22 --> 01:48:25
			same language. When I see that
Senegal Turkey, within the space
		
01:48:25 --> 01:48:29
			of five years, has almost pushed
France out as a result of the
		
01:48:29 --> 01:48:33
			Muslim connection, not because
Turkey is superior to France. When
		
01:48:33 --> 01:48:37
			I see all of this, I would be a
fool and an ingrate to turn around
		
01:48:37 --> 01:48:41
			and say, Yeah, Allah, your
religion is looking bleak. Sama
		
01:48:41 --> 01:48:43
			Hamdi, I may Allah, protect you
and may Allah reward you and
		
01:48:43 --> 01:48:48
			accept from you and I and from all
of us,
		
01:48:53 --> 01:48:56
			please remember to subscribe to
our social media and YouTube
		
01:48:56 --> 01:49:00
			channels and head over to our
website, thinkinmuslim.com to sign
		
01:49:00 --> 01:49:03
			up to my weekly newsletter to
zakala.