Omar Suleiman – Social Justice Ep 19

Omar Suleiman

“The Definition, Categories, and Prohibition of Torture in Islam”

Share Page

AI: Summary ©

The history of torture in Islam is discussed, including the use of force, branding animals, and even using animals as bait. The use of drugs and prerogative actions during the torture process is also discussed, along with the idea of boundaries within Islam and liability. The use of physical force is also discussed, along with the idea of obtaining information and obtaining actions.

AI: Summary ©

00:00:14 --> 00:00:15
			Life
		
00:01:23 --> 00:01:23
			Okay.
		
00:01:25 --> 00:01:27
			All right. So now I want to lay out a castle.
		
00:01:31 --> 00:01:46
			Model hamdulillahi Rabbil alameen wa Salatu was Salam ala rasulillah Karim Ali he was assuming
cathedra the name of Allah, the Most Compassionate, The Most Merciful. We asked him to send his
peace and blessings upon His messengers and prophets.
		
00:01:48 --> 00:01:50
			And those that follow in their path,
		
00:01:51 --> 00:01:54
			we can get the noise level down, I think the door needs to be closed.
		
00:01:57 --> 00:02:12
			From the dealer. All right. So, tonight we are in Hadeeth 20. No, we're not we're not deep 19 Sorry,
I made that mistake. So we get to these 19. Now we're almost at the halfway mark of the 40 Hadeeth.
		
00:02:13 --> 00:02:15
			Who can tell me what we spoke about last week?
		
00:02:17 --> 00:02:19
			neighbors? Did anyone do anything about it?
		
00:02:21 --> 00:02:24
			So what did you do when people came trick or treating to your house today?
		
00:02:26 --> 00:02:29
			All right, that's another discussion we'll get into one day.
		
00:02:30 --> 00:03:04
			So anyway, last week, we spoke about all of the rights, the expensive rights that are assigned to
the neighbors, the specifics, the mechanics, both a classical application, and a contemporary
application. It was one of my favorite holocausts, personally, because it really gives us a a
practical roadmap to how to establish the rights of the neighbors in a modern day context. Because
often when we read those things, we just, you know, we throw them all out the window and say that
was for a different time when neighbors actually spoke to each other. But now we live in a different
time. So we can apply any of those things. So I hope everyone was able to apply, or start to apply
		
00:03:04 --> 00:03:18
			or start thinking about how to apply the Hadith the sayings, about the neighbors. Today, we go to a
different topic altogether. Tonight, we're going to actually talk about the subject of torture,
torture.
		
00:03:20 --> 00:03:35
			Obviously, this falls within the discussion of social justice, because within the context of
torture, their domain of torture, you have many injustices, you have the injustice of the torture
itself. You have the injustice of forced confessions,
		
00:03:36 --> 00:04:19
			you know, investigative torture, all of these different things fall in the domain of this broad
category of torture. Now, the word torture in the Arabic language is the means punishment, but it
also means torture if it's used in a specific way. It also means torture, and the Hadith that we're
going to discuss the narration we're going to discuss as a hadith the first Hadith is the Hadith of
the Prophet slicin. from Abu huraira, about the Allah tala and who he said in Allah, you are as
liberal Latina, you are as the woundedness of dunya. That Allah punishes those who torture people in
this world. And it's very interesting here because in what First of all, in one narration, or in
		
00:04:19 --> 00:04:59
			some narration, there's actually multiple narrations in this language. The prophets lie some either
says in the law you as the you as the will Latina, you are the one of dunya Allah punishes those who
torture in this world and then sometimes Allah punishes those who torture people in this world. So
it's either tortures in general, or tortures people in this world. Now notice that this is one of
those ahadeeth where like the name of the Prophet sallallahu wasallam, did not tell us about any
distinction about who the person that's being tortured is or whether the person is a Muslim or non
Muslim or and a captive or an ally or whatever it may be. Just
		
00:05:00 --> 00:05:07
			period, the prohibition of torture as a whole. And there's a story as well, where we learn this
hadith and how it was applied.
		
00:05:08 --> 00:05:29
			He shouted no Hakeem, he was he passed by some people in in humps in Syria. And he saw that there
was some people that were being made to stand out in the sun, and they had some oil that was being
poured on their heads. And he asked, Why are they being tortured? And they said, because they
weren't paying their taxes. Thank god they don't do that now.
		
00:05:30 --> 00:06:10
			But you know, if you if you just think about a punishment, because they were not paying the taxes,
and he said, I heard the Messenger of Allah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam say, in the law, you as the
Buddha, Deena, you are the one and NASA for dunya. Allah punishes those who torture people in this
world that barely Allah will torture, actually, it's the same word. So Allah will torture those who
torture in this world. Now, this is obviously referring to, you know, referring to someone who's in
a position of authority, and it's also referring to someone who's not in a position of authority.
Now, if we look at this handy, there are a few different connotations to it. Another Hadith if you
		
00:06:10 --> 00:06:56
			guys can make sure the door stays closed. Another Hadith of the prophets lie Selim comes under the
chapter and Bahati and I'm just going to give the basic narrations and we'll go into some of the
details comes under a Buhari in a chapter Bab, la you will be either Billa no one should be punished
with the punishment of God. No one should be punished with the punishment of Allah. Okay. And this
comes from a Hadith of the Prophet sallallahu wasallam, where the Prophet alayhi salatu salam said,
led to the Boo, the other Billa do not punish with the punishment of God, do not punish with the
punishment of God or don't don't torture with the punishment of God. What is the profit slice I'm
		
00:06:56 --> 00:06:57
			talking about here?
		
00:06:58 --> 00:07:44
			Fire. So the prohibition in Islam, in all forms of punishment, even justified punishment of
punishing people with fire. You know, there was a hole when ISIS burned the Jordanian pilot alive
in, you know, in a cage in such a gruesome way. And that was broadcast throughout the world. What
Islam was that when the Prophet sly Salaam, said do not punish with the punishment of Allah and
completely prohibited punishment with fire torture with fire. And it was really interesting because
he caught you know, it goes back to the very first hadith of this 40 Hadith series. Where that Allah
subhanaw taala has prohibited volume for himself. He's prohibited oppression for himself. So do not
		
00:07:44 --> 00:08:22
			oppress one another, that when a person oppresses, they put themselves in the position of Allah, Who
gave you the right to oppress another creation of Allah subhanaw taala or to torture, another
creation of Allah subhanaw taala. So the prophets lie. Some could have said don't punish people with
fire. But it's very eloquent when he says don't punish with the punishment of God, meaning only
Allah reserves the right to punish people with fire. And no one of course no one would be punished
with fire on the Day of Judgment except one who truly deserves to be punished by Allah subhanaw
taala but Who do you think you are to interfere or to put yourself in that place? And you have to
		
00:08:22 --> 00:08:43
			keep in mind here that if you study the seventh century, particularly the way that captives of war
were dealt with, if you study the the Romans and the Persians throwing, you know, burning people at
the stake, burning prisoners of war at the stake was a very common thing burning off limbs, poking,
you know, casting out the eyes or plucking the eyes with burning iron.
		
00:08:44 --> 00:09:25
			We read about the pharaohs obviously for their own, throwing people into a fire of habit of dude,
the people of the ditch, who are mentioned in the Quran, who were thrown into a ditch of fire for,
you know, in Yemen, before Islam, but believing in the lowest penalty just for being monotheists
thrown into the fire and being burned. And obviously now, it's sad, but you hear about the Rohingya
that they are being punished that you know, that this genocide that's taking place over there,
people are literally having to watch their babies being thrown into fire in front of their eyes,
only because they're Muslims, right, this genocide and ethnic cleansing that's taking place in
		
00:09:25 --> 00:09:59
			Burma. So the prophets I send them here is saying that certain things only belong to Allah subhanaw
taala and do not punish with the punishment of Allah subhanaw taala don't punish with the punishment
of fire. And aim, Rahim Allah has a very powerful quote. He said that this was the punishment that
was used against Ibrahim and Islam against Abraham. Fire was the punishment that was used against
Ibrahim it is set up, not by the followers of the blame race. How could anyone who claims to be a
follower of the Buddha he might he has set up a resort to resort to torturing
		
00:10:00 --> 00:10:41
			The way that Ibrahim on Islam was tortured, or they attempted to torture him when they threw him
into his fire at the order of his father. So there's the first Hadith which is in that Allah
subhanaw taala. punishes people who torture people in this world, no matter who they are. And then
there's the second Hadith do not punish or torture with the punishment of Allah Subhana Allah to
Allah. Now there are general a hadith that obviously teach us that the way that we deal with each
other is how we're going to be dealt with with Allah subhanaw taala. So for example, the Hadith of
the Prophet, slice them in the mail Pamela Herman evadne, here rohana that Allah will show mercy to
		
00:10:41 --> 00:11:22
			those who are merciful to each other. And then he says, some alarming some the opposite of the men
lay out your ham, whoever does not show mercy will not have mercy shown to him by Allah subhanho wa
Taala. So you'll often find the Prophet peace be upon him giving us both sides of this one positive
reinforcement, one negative reinforcement, that if you want Allah's mercy, then you need to show
mercy to other people, the way that you treat others is how you'll be treated by Allah subhana wa
Tada. And then on the other hand, those who don't show mercy will not be shown mercy, by Allah
subhanho wa Taala. The and the discussion of torture in Islam spans far beyond just talking about
		
00:11:22 --> 00:11:51
			human beings, right? In fact, it's interesting, most of the Hadith about torture have to do with
animals, the vast majority of ahadeeth about torture, and we'll probably get to animals in two or
three weeks, had these 21 or 22. We'll talk about animals, but almost all of them are about animals.
So it's sort of it shouldn't be deduced that if you can't treat animals this way, then you certainly
can't treat human beings this way. But what's the most famous Hadith about torture that you all can
think of? That you heard in Sunday School growing up?
		
00:11:53 --> 00:11:54
			What about a cat?
		
00:11:56 --> 00:11:56
			Cat and woman?
		
00:12:00 --> 00:12:08
			Okay, so the very famous Hadith where the prophets lie Selim said that a woman was was punished
because of a cat
		
00:12:10 --> 00:12:11
			that she imprisoned,
		
00:12:12 --> 00:12:35
			meaning she caged that cat and didn't allow that cat to to find its natural food, nor did she feed
the cat or provide water to the cat. So her torturing the cat in the profit slice and then said that
she entered into Hellfire, because of the way that she treated that cat because she stopped that cat
from being able to eat or drink and that was a form of torture. Okay, starving that cat.
		
00:12:36 --> 00:13:13
			There's the Hadith there. All of the Hadith about branding animals, the Prophet slicin and
mentioning those who brand animals and and the punishment of those who torture their animals, the
profit slice, I'm talking about those who torture their cannibals, camels, cannibals. That's a new
word. camels or riding beasts with too much, overburdening them. Right in the profit slice I
mentioned that they would testify to a loss of hundreds out on the day of judgment about the owner
that overburden them, the profit slice, I'm talking about the one who tortured the birds, that
Mother, you know, the mother whose eggs were taken, right, so there are numerous Hadith about
		
00:13:13 --> 00:13:55
			torturing animals, which means that the subject of torture spans far beyond human beings. It goes to
animals and it goes to also, you know, it even goes to insects to some extent. All right. So, how
does this then translate into the way that people are supposed to be treated? First, you start with
prisoners, okay, prisoners. And obviously, when we think about the world that we live in today, if
you think about Guantanamo Bay, if you think about above, Ray, if you think about the secret prisons
around the world, if you think about the type of torture that takes place in prisons, the
discussions on waterboarding, the type of torture that takes place, in many prisons, this is not
		
00:13:55 --> 00:14:42
			some, you know, Caveman's world that we're talking about. We're talking about our world today that
this is still a very common feature of our society. And we as in our country, has led the way in
torture in many different ways. But we've tortured in different parts of the world where, where we
cannot be subject to the laws that we claim to abide by. So torture is not some feature, that that
was carried out by early governments, but it is a feature that we see today of our societies. But if
you start with the concept of prisoners with the subject of prisoners, there's a very famous story
about cinema, about the Allahu taala and home cinema was the chief of bento hanifa. So Mama was the
		
00:14:42 --> 00:14:46
			chief of bento Hanif and he was one of the greatest enemies of the Prophet sallallahu sallam,
		
00:14:47 --> 00:14:59
			and he actively used to target and harmless slums. And he was captured in Medina. And when he was
captured in Medina, they brought him to the masjid and he was tied to a pillar in the masjid
		
00:15:00 --> 00:15:34
			In his mind, he's going to be mutilated piece by piece because the mama now bento hanifa was famous
for torture. This is actually some of the backdrop. Ben hanifa. That's where the first false prophet
and Islam came from masala al Qaeda, and he literally picked people limb by limb, that disbelieved
in him that refuse to call him a prophet bento. hanifa was a rough tribe, and he's the chief of that
tribe. So he's tied to the pillar of the masjid. And the prophets I seldom comes up to him and he
tells him what do you have to say for yourself? Oh, phenomena? He said, Yeah, Muhammad.
		
00:15:36 --> 00:16:17
			I'm a man who, who if you take care of I will take care of you. And if you don't, then things are
gonna happen. So he said, in Texel, talk to the demon if you kill, then other people will end up
being killed on Turner, mTOR Nirmala Shakur, and if you show benevolence, you'll be showing
benevolence to a man who will be grateful meaning I'll take care of you, if you let me go. The
province I'm left them alone. So he stayed there tied up in the masjid, for a day. The next day the
Prophet peace be upon him came to him and he asked him the same thing. What do you have to say for
yourself? He said, the same thing. He said, Listen, if you kill me, other people will be killed. If
		
00:16:17 --> 00:16:32
			you show me benevolence, and generosity, then you will do so to a grateful man, the prophets lie
some left them alone. A second day came from a third day setting, what do you have to say for
yourself? said the exact same thing. The Prophet peace be upon him set up the clothes the moment he
said, You know, I just let him go.
		
00:16:33 --> 00:16:49
			Now the companions were shocked. Why would he say let him go after all he's done to us. Why did he
say let him go? So nama went outside, he didn't go, he performed ablution. And they came back to the
Prophet peace be upon him. And he became a Muslim.
		
00:16:50 --> 00:17:00
			He accepted Islam. And this was a really interesting, I mean, this is a long story. It's a powerful
story because the nama knowing the man that he was, he was on his way to Mecca.
		
00:17:02 --> 00:17:37
			On a trade route, and he's a diplomat, right? He's someone who's well respected in Mecca. He's a
powerful man. And he told the prophets lie some I want to do ombre How do I do the pilgrimage? How
do I do Ramadan? And the prophets lie some taught him how to do Ramadan. And he wouldn't he did
Amara by himself. He was the first man to actually do Ramadan, to do the pilgrimage in Mecca, while
the Muslims were actually boycotted. And then he placed Mecca under economic boycott, because of the
way they were treating the Prophet peace be upon them and the Muslims. So this is a very powerful
man. But the point being that the scholars point out from here is obviously that the prophets lie
		
00:17:37 --> 00:17:51
			some refuse to treat him the way that he was treating other people he did not allow for the
practices of Benno hanifa. To become the practices of the prophets lie Selim. How does this play out
in jurisprudence, generally speaking, the prophet peace be upon him.
		
00:17:52 --> 00:18:30
			When when he faced an opponent an opponent in war or in battle, then he dealt with them by the norms
that they would deal with other people. Meaning if the Prophet peace be upon him, fought and battle
against the people that did not take captives. He didn't take captives. If he fought against the
people that did take captives, he took captives, but he treated them in ways that they were that
they were not accustomed to. Alright, but here with to mama through Mama was someone that comes from
a tribe of torture, the prophets lie some refuse to torture him. And of course, through mama
witnessing the beautiful character of the Muslims witnessing their brotherhood, witnessing their
		
00:18:30 --> 00:19:11
			sisterhood, witnessing the kind treatment that they gave to him, despite everything he'd done, his
heart, then inclined towards Islam. I'm not suggesting we tie anyone to this pillar. We only got one
pillar here, right? don't tie anyone to this pillar, right? But just in general, it was a testimony
to the good character of those Muslims that were around the Prophet sallallahu wasallam. And this
goes to the Hadith, I'm sorry, the ayah in the Quran, where Allah subhana wa tada says, Well, your
three mana for Allah Allah higbee he miskeen We're a team and we're a Syrah and they, they give food
in spite of their love, for that food or their love out of their love for Allah subhanho wa Taala
		
00:19:12 --> 00:19:53
			they give food despite their love for that food they're giving away and out of their love for Allah
subhana wa tada out of their love for their Creator, to the poor person to the orphan and to the
captive. And they say in the manual for mo COMM The word Hila lonely domain comm za and when I show
Cora we feed you seeking only allows pleasure, we wish from you no reward, nor do we expect to be
thanked for this. Now, this is typically understood this is typically understood to how you would
spend upon other prisoners. Because what used to happen in Mecca, in the days of ignorance is that
when people had slaves and prisoners, what they would do is they would let them out for an hour a
		
00:19:53 --> 00:20:00
			day to go beg for food, they wouldn't even feed them. So one, you know, an hour or two a day, they
would let themselves
		
00:20:00 --> 00:20:36
			leaves out, they've left their prisoners out to go beg other people for food. So, you know, the
scholars understood from this idea that you should feed those people, you know, even though if you
don't have the means to free them from their captivity, you should feed them. All right, you should
at least dignified them as much as you can feed them and give them drinks, but they don't have to go
around begging for food and drink. But him and I bustled Lila Han, who obviously is, is the cousin
of the profit slice, and I'm in the authority of the poor. And he said that in those days, their
prisoners were, were much too keen. They were they were people that fought them on the day of better
		
00:20:36 --> 00:21:12
			so they weren't Muslims. They were people that came and fought them on the day of bed that and the
Messenger of Allah sallallahu Sallam commanded them to be kind to their prisoners. So he said that
the companions used to put their prisoners before themselves with their food, so that if food came
to their home, they feed their captives first, and then they would feed themselves and their
families. So how this was actually, you know, the way that they were told to treat their own
prisoners and their own captives. From the Battle of beddit Mujahid Rahim Allah, He said that they
would give food to these prisoners, even though are these captives even though they themselves
		
00:21:12 --> 00:21:23
			desired it, and they love that food for themselves. So the prohibition on torture went far beyond
just not beating and not hitting and not not not,
		
00:21:25 --> 00:22:04
			you know, not carrying out any form of physical torture, but it also meant sleep deprivation, or
depriving them from food or drink or depriving them from clothes or depriving them from their
dignity. It was far more encompassing, than what you would typically think of when you talk about
laws that should outlaw torture. We also find the Hadith of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam
where he was pacing after the Battle of bedeutet. Now obviously, again, the Battle of bed, that is a
situation where you have people that try to massacre the small community of Muslims. And this is the
first time the Muslims are taking captives. And of course, the prophets lie, some freed anyone that
		
00:22:04 --> 00:22:39
			could teach 10 people how to read and he prohibited torture and all these types of things. But it
was also very emotional for the Muslims because a lot of the people that came in the Battle of bed
that were their parents were their uncles were there were their family members, their siblings that
came to kill them. And the prophets lie, some included a DJ, his brother was amongst those who were
fighting on the day of better his uncle's were amongst those that were fighting on the other side,
the prophet sly son was pacing after the Battle of beddit. And he was crying. So the companions came
to him and they said, Why are you crying? He said, some air into an email, a bath, he was happy. He
		
00:22:39 --> 00:22:57
			said, I could hear a bus my uncle, I could hear his his moaning or his groaning because of because
of the chains, meaning they were tied in a way that it caused him discomfort and the Prophet slicin
was hurt, because he knew that his uncle was hurting.
		
00:22:58 --> 00:23:38
			But now when the companions saw that, they said to the Prophet sly, some of them, you know what,
we'll go loosen up the chains, he said, but if you do that, for him, you have to do for everybody.
So wouldn't be fair, if you just did that for him, because he's my uncle, you have to loosen, loosen
them up from all of the captives, don't just loosen them up from my uncle, and I bust the law and
the prophets lie some was pleased with them, loosening the chains, as the narration says. So that's
the way that they were supposed to treat them to make sure that they took into consideration though
those those factors that would be considered torturous, we also find that the profit sites referred
		
00:23:38 --> 00:24:03
			to forced confessions, forced confessions, and he sets the law when he was solemn, that a lot of the
Almighty ohata when the cinemas took rihani, that Allah has pardoned, has pardoned people for their
for what they do out of mistake. And hapa what you do out of mistake, or what you do out of
forgetfulness, or what you do under duress,
		
00:24:04 --> 00:24:20
			Allah has forgiven you for that. How does this relate to torture, if you're being tortured, you
don't have to insist upon things that will that will get you tortured, further tortured. So the
prohibition on or the profit slice on relaxing
		
00:24:21 --> 00:24:59
			you know, the rules that would allow for a person to continue to be tortured. The most famous
example of that are the first martyrs of Islam, the family of yesterday acid, so mania, and a
monkey. And when, when, when, when a Buddha was torturing them, obviously tortured amongst them a
lot of vinyasa. And while Ahmad was being tortured, they were being forced to curse a lot. They're
being forced to curse the Prophet slice Allah. They're being forced to say things, you know, to
worship the idols or to say, words of worship to the idols. Now, yes, and and sumiya did not do that
and they were killed for that amount of their son. He cursed the Prophet slicin them
		
00:25:00 --> 00:25:23
			He felt really bad about that he felt guilty for cursing the messenger RNA. His thought was, while
he was being tortured, and the prophets lie Selim told him Did you do it with your tongue or with
your heart? He said it was just with my tongue. He said, Can I do it? If they torture you again,
then curse me again. Don't put yourself in a situation where you continue to be tortured. So this
relaxing of the, you know,
		
00:25:26 --> 00:25:42
			I don't even know how to put it. But this exception that was given to people while they were
underdressed, so that they did not have to say things that would continue to earn them torture
really meant something to the early Muslims that often suffered persecution,
		
00:25:43 --> 00:26:06
			right that they were not held guilty. Or they were not they were not sinful when they said things
that they had to say in order to escape torture. Now, here's where the discussion becomes
interesting. investigative torture. All right, investigative torture. This is a Hadeeth. And I
thought about starting with this headache, but I figured I'd just start with the basics on torture,
and then get to this hadith.
		
00:26:07 --> 00:26:51
			This Hadith is it takes place during the time of Norman in Al Bashir, not even Bashir or the Allahu
taala. And who was one of the young companions of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam. And this
the narration isn't a Buddha would it's not authentic narration that some goods of the people of
keela were stolen. So this is a people of color, and some of their goods were stolen. They accused
some of the the weavers there was some there was a group of Weaver's those that used to sew and
weave of theft. So they thought that they that these were the people that stole their goods. So they
went to an amount of beneficiaries of the allowance, how to handle that, and they told him about
		
00:26:51 --> 00:27:07
			this. So he can find them for a few days. And he asked them about it. And their belongings were
searched, and then he let them go. But their belongings were searched not intrusively. It was a very
basic search, like it wasn't like a TSA search.
		
00:27:08 --> 00:27:20
			Meaning they just asked him if he asked them if they did steal. And when they said they didn't steal
theirs, they just did a basic look at their, at their at their things, and then they let them go. So
the people that accused
		
00:27:21 --> 00:27:58
			these men of stealing, they went to him and they were upset. This, they said, Tim, you set them free
without doing any type of beating, or investigation, you didn't beat them, nor did you investigate
them, meaning you should have beat him up a little bit and roughed him up and then seeing if they
actually stole, which was the custom of those people. You know, if you hit him a little bit, choke
them a little bit, you know, try to get them to confess to it, then maybe they would have and listen
to what he said. He said to them. He said, What do you want, they said, We want you to beat him, we
want you to like to rough him up. He said okay, well, he said, here's the deal. If I do that, and
		
00:27:58 --> 00:28:10
			then your goods are found with them, then it's justified, he said, but if I do that, and your goods
are not found with them, then I'm going to have to do to you exactly what I did to them.
		
00:28:12 --> 00:28:28
			So as much as I hit them, or I rough them up, I'm going to have to do the same thing to you. And
actually the language used I will have to take from your backs what I took from their backs, meaning
they wanted them to be flogged, so they said you want me to flog them if they turn out to not have
it even after all that I'm gonna have to flog all of you
		
00:28:29 --> 00:29:12
			for coming with that. So they were upset with that they said that is this. How the heck is this your
decision? Is that is that really your judgment? And he said no. And he said how the heck moolah he
woke marsudi he said, That's not my judgment. He said that's the judgment of a lot in the judgment
of the Messenger of Allah sallallahu wasallam. And, you know, this is a powerful narration because
it really highlights Islam's prohibition on what would come to be known as investigative torture.
How did this play out in the books in the books of jurisprudence, the earlier scholars completely
prohibited completely prohibited any form of investigative torture, no matter who the person was, no
		
00:29:12 --> 00:29:40
			matter what their history was, there was no way that you could that you could do this in trying to
get something from them. Later scholars, later scholars getting into the 11th and 12th and 13th
century, like an amendment Emile Rahim Allah and in an oddity, they started to discuss this and they
started to give some exceptions not to investigative torture, but to you know, to using
		
00:29:41 --> 00:29:53
			physical force. And they said that you could do this with someone who has a history. So some of the
later scholars, this is interesting, some of the later scholars they said if a person has a history,
		
00:29:54 --> 00:29:59
			then then they could be than physical force could be used with them.
		
00:30:00 --> 00:30:30
			In the process of investigating them, the interesting thing about this is that these scholars that
said that they did it in response to the European criminal procedure. So the, this was analogous to
half proof. Okay, because this was the European judicial process. And now Muslim scholars were
having to respond to this. And they were relaxing some of the prohibition because this was becoming
the norm of the world, whereas you find that the earlier scholars took a definitive prohibition
		
00:30:32 --> 00:31:15
			on on investigative torture or investigative punishment, what is the show us? What it shows us is
that the scholars understood that they had to deal with changing circumstances and the definitions
of torture and the definitions of what was allowable and what was not, and that Islam set
boundaries, but there were that there was some room for discussion within the gray areas. And so
when you look at today, the United Nations the UN, for example, they define torture, as an act by
which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person
for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person, information or confession, punishing him
		
00:31:15 --> 00:31:36
			for an act he or a third person has committed or suspected of having committed or intimidating or
coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind. Now, as we
said, this is a definition by the way that fits Islam, not only to Islam actually broadens it beyond
human beings, right? This goes beyond people,
		
00:31:37 --> 00:32:19
			even though you wouldn't necessarily interrogate an animal, but some people do. All right. But
torturing or punishing animals is included within the same prohibition. And that's why you know,
this the 1984 Convention Against Torture 37 of 44 Muslim countries signed it. So scholars generally
did not find any objection to things of that sort. So there is room for discussion within these
things. But then you have the Islamic constants that prohibits what would come under what is
definitively taffy, what is definitively torture. And of course, again, the Hadith of the Prophet
sly Salaam, in the law, you as the Buddha, Deena, you're either born in us for dunya, Allah will
		
00:32:19 --> 00:32:27
			punish those who torture people in this world. And the Prophet slice Allah mentioned to us that the
first the first
		
00:32:29 --> 00:33:00
			proceedings on the Day of Judgment would be between the animals. Right, so you even have an animal
that did not have horns that was attacked by an animal with horns and Allah subhanaw taala would do
justice between them. So what then of a human being that had more power over another human being and
abused that power, or a human being that did so over an animal loss? pantai protect us from ever
being in that situation? I mean, Allah subhanho wa Taala never allows to oppress or wrong in any
capacity whatsoever alumna I mean, questions.
		
00:33:01 --> 00:33:02
			Yeah.
		
00:33:03 --> 00:33:04
			I know you might be