The first episode in what will be a series of discussions pertaining to Ayahs 1-18 of the Qur’an’s Surah 12 and their corresponding section from the story of Joseph starting from Chapter 37 of Genesis in the Old Testament.
Nouman Ali Khan – Joseph in the Qur’an and the Bible
AI: Summary ©
The interviewer discusses the use of silicized information in biblical literature and the history of the character Jacob Rogers, as well as the use of "medicals in the Bible and the potential for confusion with the title "naughty and the madam." They also explore the origin of the internet and the confusion surrounding the title of the Bible, as well as the use of "has" in interpretations. The speakers emphasize the importance of understanding the Bible and its use in Christian interpretations, as well as the potential for negative criticism.
AI: Summary ©
All right. So welcome everyone. I'm really really excited this is the first live broadcast interview that I'm trying out and in shallow highlights of benefit. With me today is a dear friend of mine Walker pertain who years studying traditional sciences in the Middle East and Syria and and after returning to the UK where he lives now, he compiled his emefiele at the University of Oxford in Islamic Studies and history with a focus on the Koran, Hebrew and Syriac. He's now part of a partly through his de fille de Phil's a PhD, right that's what you guys call it. Yeah. Just an Oxford Oxford I said it's an Oxford Oxford okay. So is detail on biblical was wisdom literature and its
relationship to the Quran
is forthcoming publication includes the study of pseudo Manasa Kuhn, including its variants in the scenario manuscripts, and a chapter in biblical traditions in the Quran on job Jonah, Elijah and Ezra, that's going to be really interesting. We're gonna have some conversations about inshallah. inshallah. So I invited you on and I think she said, Who's head of research at Vienna will be joining us soon as he's having a fire at the moment. And I told him, we'll just get started and he'll jump in inshallah,
the link to join and let me just make sure that I did send that to him. Yes, I did. So what I wanted to do in this session was, you know, in my series on siliceous, have I gotten up to discussing it number 18. And what I wanted to do is every every story milestone, we reach in the Quran with my audience, I wanted to take pause,
and do a comparative read of the Old Testament. You know, the story is described in the book of Genesis. And as I told you, the reason I wanted you on, on the call today, is as I read through this, because I'm reading the English translation, and I have no knowledge of Hebrew or, you know, scholarship on the Bible, etc. So I wanted some of your input on you know, you know, not just the obvious contrast with some things that stick out to you based on your studies. So let's, you know, get right into it, and shall we not? So this is, this is chapter 37. Everybody knows this is chapter 37. of Genesis, the book of Genesis in the Old Testament, and are we going to read 38 or no, should
we be skipping? Right? So we get the 39. Can you tell the audience what that is?
We'll actually verse when we get to verse two, I'll, I'll explain that. Okay. That's fine. That explains that. Okay. So, so let's start and Jacob dwelt in the land of his father's two journeys, I don't know what's the journey means, by the way.
Okay, so, so Jacob golden the land of his father says earnings in the land of Canaan. This is the lineage of Jacob Joseph 17 years old, was tending the flock with his brother and assisting the sons of bilhah. And the sons of zilpah. The wives of his father
would be too. Yeah. Yeah. So America, just jump in? Is that how you
want to contribute? Okay, so this phrase here, this is the lineage of Jacob. That's a structuring device in Genesis. So Genesis is basically divided. Genet, the first book of the Old Testament, right is divided into four sections, you've got the primeval history, which is the creation of the world, Adam and Eve, the flood of Noah, the, the Tower of Babel, that's chapters one through 11. Then you see this structuring device. This is the lineage of introducing like the major section, this kind of used once or twice, for some diversions as well. But it basically introduces the major breaks in the story. So you get the you get the story of Abraham first, then Isaac, right, and says,
This is the lineage of Isaac. And now we've been told that this is the next part of the saga. Right? This is the lineage object. And that's why the next chapter, it moves away from Joseph, because this whole section from Genesis 37, to the end now is really, it's not really just about Joseph, it's about the lineage of Jacob, that includes all of the sons of Jacob. That's primarily Joseph, but it also is the others. That's why in chapter 38, you get a little bit of information about what the Judo what he was doing. So it seems like it's a discontinuity but only if you don't appreciate how the structuring devices work in structuring questions about Jacob Rogers. So that's the first thing.
Second thing is that what the book is doing in this structuring device when you're going from Abraham, to Isaac to Jacob is telling us how the promises that were made to Abraham, so right at the start of the Abraham story, how they're unfolding and being fulfilled, promises,
children like the stars and all of that, exactly, but there's another promise that people sort of pay attention to that. That's the big one. But there's another one as well, which you have to really appreciate understand what's happening, the juicy story. Yeah, the first premise was you're gonna have a huge lineage, right like the countless stars and the second one is that the nations of the world will
Be blessed through. Right. And that's really important when it comes to Joseph. Right. So you see how the, we now see. So if you look at the story, if you follow through this kind of obstacle after obstacle to the promise being fulfilled, so Abraham, very old, Sara's infirm, one son is sent to a to the desert Ishmael, the other one's about to be slaughtered than Isaac's wife,
Rebecca, she's in firm. And now you've got, all of the obstacles are overcome, right. And now you've got this final
part of that promise left, which is Jacobs sort of had all the children and so they're multiplying, and the generations are increasing. But this blessing hasn't reached all of the world yet hasn't really gone beyond Israel. So that's what the Jacob's story is going to tell us. And that's really interesting in light of, I don't go into the ground until you've covered that too much, but just to just
when you said it, when you said when
you Tim will name it for alayka. While Alia to Kamata Mahadev, awakened February berahino, is how to recognize the promise was fulfilled with Abraham. The next part was, Isaac, there's a bit left and I'm hoping you'll fulfill it, I was really beautiful is that the Quran is kind of there reminding us that part of the promise was that this is going to go beyond Israel. And that's really important in terms of the context of the Prophet, right. And in the language of the Bible. If the if Abraham is being told that through his lineage, nations of the world will be blessed, we have another additional reading of that as Muslims, because the reality of the profit center and you know, that
we need our local inasa mama and our reading of that, right, responded. So that's pretty remarkable. So Pamela, okay, so, and Joseph brought a report of them to their father, and his, and Israel loved Joseph more than all his sons, for he was the child of his old age, and he made him ornament an ornamental tunic. And his brother saw it was he their father loved more than all his brothers. Okay, so we went against of the FEMA. So Joseph aborto report of them to the fossil justice characters sort of been interpreted in two ways, this first part, before you get to the dreams and the attempted murder, you know, is Joseph a kind of an innocent young kid who's,
you know, just being doted on by his dad? Or is he? And this is the phrasing that they use them on scholarship, a sport branch, right? This is this was this was really what is generally what is Genesis actually saying about it? And it's pretty clear that you know, whatever we believe as Muslims, theologically about prophets, and God used for some Genesis is definitely portraying him as spoiled, right. So when it says, Joseph, poor il report, so the word in Hebrew dubara, are the debus quite a rare word in Hebrew, but whenever its use is bringing news that's just stirring up trouble. So when the when moosari, Sam sent spies into Israel to kind of into Canaan to scout out the land
before they invaded it. Yeah. And two of them said, yeah, we should do it. The others who are spreading rumors, it's gonna be really tough, and they're giants. And that was called a dip up. And it's using the songs as well. So this is kind of this is a detail bearing, right? This is kind of malicious stuff. You there's no benefit in it. There's definitely this story to start trouble. Right. If I start saying that, look, Joseph kind of has it coming to him. That's what that's how the story is. Because not only is he and it's also then Jacob So, so, again, to give a bit of context, Jacob has several wives. His federal favorite wife is Rachel and through Rachel, he has two sons,
Joseph and Benjamin.
And that's his favorite wife and he has Joseph in his old age and so this is his favorite son and you can see during on him he makes him this ornamented tunic we don't read the word ornamented by name we don't really know what it means is that when you start seeing okay
yes person whatever that means is quite a rare word was used in one of the place in the Bible to refer to it's when the princess and tomorrow she has a similar thing. So is it royal sort of things are clearly an expensive garment that that you're wearing is not necessarily very practical. All that thought I just want to invite everybody welcome every or let everybody know that I'm welcoming, shipshape, say my dear friend who I talk to every day, and call he's head of research.
Alhamdulillah he's completed his PhD from the University of London input on studies a remarkable thesis and also has actually published a translation of Amman pappelina Ross's Fatiha isn't it. It's just the Fatiha
That there it is, yep, super proud of you, and has won awards for that translation as well. And he's on this call, because soccer is going to help us gain some insights from the Old Testament. And so he was going to chime in and challah wherever he sees a parallel to traditional references, and maybe any thought or anything like that, that may help us gain some more insight. I mean, as a shallow read, Before we continue, we're on verse three, by the way, in the in chapter 37.
And I'm going to keep reading and you know, chime in whenever you feel
what we have so far, at least my own shallow read was there, it's like two different stories, two different different characters, different stories, it's like a completely different world that the Quran is painting than what you find in the Old Testament. And that actually lends into, you know, knuckle seleka accidental causes. And what we were saying about that the best version of the story, also the best reading of this
and also that it's a new revelation altogether, or anatomy and Lacan. Tachyon. So we've sent it a new almost, you know, yeah, so that that's really important because this story is one of the most popular stories are the time of the Protestantism. So there's kind of countless poems and harmonies in Syriac in, and then the rabbi's are always discussing it as part of the student pig refer. So it's a really popular story, people are getting their own takes on it, some of those takes come, you know, suggested wisdoms, at least some of those takes have some similarities to the Quran, in terms of for example,
not wanting to portray Joseph and Jacob in a bad light at the start of story. So there's lots of there's versions of the story that are around so when the Quran says acidosis it's recognizing that there are versions of this story around and I was going to give throwing down the gauntlet, right? This is the best Yeah, and part of painting Jacob in a bad light jacoba this summer Israel, as its, as he's described, is that he is by his love.
You know, that is like he's, he's already unfair to the other voice. Yeah, me being in that the Quran doesn't say it mentions their sentiment but never validates.
You know, right. In fact, it misses out this entire first section, right? So setting it up as what they were happening to them is almost coming to them, right, because of these.
This is a theme that's running through a Genesis of a favorite song, and it always ends up bad. You know, our favorite song who's a little bit spoiled. So Isaac's favorite song was so Rebecca's favorite song was Jacob. And it's it always ends up in the brothers having strife with each other. And that having consequences down the road. So as soon as you read at the start, that he had a favorite favorite son and you read that the son was a little bit spoiled, you know that they're bringing trouble unto themselves
on the grounds does away with that. Okay.
So shall I read on?
Just one more thing. So note that in verse three is
called Jacob Israel, right? So Jacob, so So Jacob, like Abraham, like Sarah before? And how does the name change? By God's Abraham? Abram to Abraham, Sarah from Sarah to Sarah. And this is a way you know, naming something is ownership. That's why when in Genesis Adam names all of the animals are still the grand chronicler is different. In Genesis went by Adam naming the animals God has given him ownership and dominion of the animals, you get to decide that destiny. So by God changing names, it's showing that God is now taking ownership of this person. Jacobs unusual in that even after his name has changed. Sometimes he's referred to by the old name Jacob and somebody by his new name
Israel, here in this part story, in the judgment, it is usually Jacob, and occasion and less frequently Israel. So whenever when it comes up, we just think about why it's coming up. And usually it's to do with is focusing on the the clan, and there's something significant about the fans is telling us, Israel love Jacob. In other words, the is drawing our attention to kind of the history of the nation and what's going to happen as a consequence of this love is me. I see. Okay, so, so I got up to and his brother saw it was he their father loved more than his than all his brothers, and they hated him and could not speak a kind word to him. And Joseph dreamed a dream and told it to his
brothers. And they hated him all the more. Right? You want to stop here? Yeah, just just a couple, a couple of things. So
he told his brother so most modern scholars would say, look, this is part of Joseph's kind of self, self aggrandizement, right we already know that is being
presenters will sport nursing. Look at these dreams that I grabbed. So he's just lording it over his brothers.
And clearly, he understands the significance of what it is that he dreamed. And I don't know what your take, I'll confess, I haven't been following this surah use of lectures. I know what your take is.
I'm not, I'm not convinced that in the Quran, he actually knows what the dream means. The Quran, I think presents him as more innocent than that. But here, he definitely knows what the dream means. And it seems that he's lording it over his brothers. Look what I dreamed
that I
know what it means. But he's not he's actually disturbed by knowing what it means instead of being proud of knowing what it means. Okay. And so it's the knowledge of it is actually putting him in a,
in a kind of an anxiety and that's maybe one of the there's few language markers towards that. And maybe one of them is the repetition of it, before he could finish the thought even.
So, but I mean, can I just kind of push back on that later? Or do you want to get back to that? Absolutely. So So I mean, the at home, the masculine plural pronoun. So we see that elsewhere in the Quran, where something inanimate is being treated, or is doing something which you normally associate with an article, right? So
what Allah Allah, how willing are they to bow on our hand colorata Athena tie in, so the earth and the skies, and we come immediately, and they use the masculine plural, right? So I'm not sure. I'm not sure how strong and evidence that is. And then the other thing, which, in my reading makes me think emotional, Joseph knows what's happening, just you spray some noise. What's happening here is that,
and this is what I want to get a take on. Yakuza says, God will teach you you're allowed to come in that we had these, suggesting, maybe he didn't know. And then when their dream is realized, he says, How that we know, yeah, this is what the dream was all about. That's certainly a plausible reading of it. Our take on it was a few things that I shared with you. So maybe you can chime in. Also, the first of them was the home, which is conventionally for and in his explicit evidence. The other was the reluctance. And the third was also,
you know, you judge the Amiga.
And, you know, each day by not just having to do with divine selection, but actually having to do with selection based on some qualification, or something demonstrated, and it's a hint of that is being demonstrated already in the way that he spoke of them. And so it's, it's it occurred, you know, one of the implications may be that jacobellis Alam sees that the way he's talking about, it seems he may not have it all figured out. But he knows that it's not just the sun, the stars and the stars and the sun in the world. And it's and our reading of your limca is that the process of God teaching you has begun.
And it seems as if it's not just limited to dreams, it's going to be all manner of speech that he's going to be teaching you interpretation of Minta ahaadeeth.
I would, I would add one, one further thing here, which is that if most of us reading the surah, when we come to this ayah
we understood what the dream was about, then we would probably credit that to his father,
who actually had 11 brothers and would have been able to put, you know, 11 and 11, together as it were.
And that is very young. I mean, in hearing the biblical stories, obviously, 17.
Even then, you know, immediately What does jacobellis Some say? Don't tell your brothers less they plow Okay, yeah.
Putting these things together, we're not in beyond him.
Unlike some of the dreams letter, which, in a sense, we're more complicated, the, you know, the the cows and the stalks and all these things. But, you know, a lot of I mean, the end of the day, you try to piece together, things are little signs in the text, and yeah, no show. So one of the reasons that was making me inclined the other way was that it then really undercuts the biblical narrative altogether with with him, right, it said, the Quran is saying, look, it wasn't like that at all. You know, he was much less lording it over he didn't really fully grasp what it was that he dream. Oh, my thing on that is, the biblical narrative may present a pretty ugly picture. But
an extreme reaction to that, if you will, should not be warranted. It should be no, let's set the story straight and let's, let's not get or in rejecting going out of our way to say no, that's not what happened. No, this is what happened. You know, like nahoon apostolica. Humble Huck, right. There may be parts of it that correspond with a biblical account. And then there are points of divergence. And so it's almost miraculous that the tendency to wanna undo the damage done by an extreme view should be to completely
throw the baby out with the bathwater, and read and present more opposite view. And the Quran refuses to do that. And you know, also, like, it's so interesting how, how we read this ayah to certain tones, right? So, all of a sudden, our mind always has like a different tone to maybe what I'm used to, like what you pick up from it. And even the same thing can be said about, you know, how that color Yeah, but he had that video. Yeah, I mean, that you could hear that as, like, a surprise, you know, you could you could read it in that way. Or it could simply be just like, amazement about how Allah subhanaw taala has taken things, you know, all these ups and downs. And he's been so good
to me when he brought me out of the prison. And the shed light had tried to create the sand between me and my brothers. But despite all of this, you know, here we are. And,
you know, we, you know, how that will roll? Yeah, doesn't necessarily mean also, that's what it means. So that will be the fulfillment and the manifestation of what I've seen. And now you shall, before me in the way that I saw in my dream, you know, right. Yeah, no, I see that.
Before I continue, Are you guys okay, with?
I know, within the hour, we're not going to be done with the story, or at least up to even 18? Are you okay, with carrying this on tomorrow? You guys done with that? Yeah, we can finish the
end and all that, but like, and then we can just because I don't want to rush through anything. And I'm in no hurry to finish the study of the soul. I just, I want to be able to just be able to process what we want to process from it, and give due diligence to whatever to the board we can, and Sharla
out there. Okay. So I'm going to read a little bit further.
By the way, so one thing that I noticed, you have in the Quran, 's account him coming to his father telling him the dream, cautioning him not to tell his brothers, and by very stark contrast him going straight to his brothers first in the Bible, and then almost having it in their face and offending them. Right. So and then he's and he said to them, Listen, pray to this dream that I dreamed. And look, we and I don't know what a Shiva so you're gonna explain that to me. And look, we were binding sheaves in the field, and look, my my sheaf rose and actually stood up and look your sheaves around and bow to my chief. And his brother said to him, Do you mean to reign over us? Do you mean to rule
us, and they hated him all the more. And for his dream and for his words, and he dreamed yet another green cube, maybe you can stop everything if you if you combine the two, but go ahead, tell me about the sheep business. So the sheep is just like a blade of like wheat or corn.
So the other blades will burn down to his blade.
Okay, so that's what that is.
And
what I want to say, yeah, there's a nice play on words, which happens a couple of times, which is which is interesting, because the name of Joseph actually is there's like a word planted several times in the in this story. So they hate him or them or the more weight is because why yossef they added because the verb can be increased, they increase their hatred for Joseph.
And his interest because the Quran does has a wordplay on the name as well.
So it's actually continuing biblical vision and and the Bible doesn't have
you referring to Yasaka. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So this, this earlier dream is also mentioned in subsidiarity. But the ratios tend to come as
instead of saying it says in Genesis, we have as Karla Webb will have even wanna be
attributed to some of the early facility and and authorities and people have narrations.
And then, in some cases, it's fairly easy to find the the parallel of that in the biblical text. So this would be one of them. I didn't I didn't actually realize that when I translated this from what but it basically became like this. Joseph was seven years old, he saw 11 long sticks standing in the ground in a circle, a small stick pounced upon them, uprooting each one.
And his father told him not to recount it. Then when he was 12, he saw this one which is mentioned in the ayah.
They're trying to make a correspondence with the biblical account at least somewhat, or hope is what would happen is that you know, additional things have been mentioned, and those things may indeed originate in the Bible.
Yeah, yeah.
Because you know, when when you see a narration like that, let me ask you so what's your thoughts on on this when you see a narration like that
Where does your mind go of its origin? Is it? Is it a hobby or a tabula II that was in contact with someone of biblical knowledge? Because they're clearly not attributing it to this little last slice of them? Yeah. So where is this coming from? For me? The first thing I kind of asked, and this is I think, the mindset that the being Muslim inculcates in us is okay, was this not for this? Right? Right? is not as it were, to what have been want to be?
Of course, if it's nice to have, and it's not to the Prophet sallallahu wasallam, then we know that he's that he doesn't speak of desire. So this is a matter of why he right, it was authentically generated from him. Yeah, otherwise, we'd say, Okay, well, okay, what's the it's not to use for worse? It's not to you're cool. But what's the it's not to this sequence of events? So who was there who witnessed it? Right? Because some stories you read, someone had to have been there to observe Otherwise, how would anyone know about that? except to Revelation? So in this kind of thing, you know, especially when you're dealing with biblical stories, you're just going to encounter a lot of
materials that, that yes, are either taken directly, directly indirectly, from the Bible, things are entered into the general consciousness and things that were passed around as stories and as a come, here's my crazy mind, you see, they would sort of observe, did find certain gaps, and they'd be like, why not fill in this gap a little bit. And they'd reach for things that were, you know, that were said, especially those who were Converse from the people of the book. I also feel you know, because the what we're reading here in the version of Todd and I don't know how many versions of this are there, but you know, there's no plucking mentioned, it's just sheaves drew around and bow
to my sheep. And the version you mentioned from Rosie has these talks, the stocks plucking, right? So it's okay, it's similar enough, but it's also diverging from what we're reading here. And which makes me even think is this taken originally from the Bible? Or is this overheard from a Christian or a Jewish person who has their version of it that they kind of remember from whatever they learned, and they're just casually recounting it kind of thing? You know what I'm saying? Because it also comes to mind that the early, you know, region is not really a place of great scholarship. It's a place of oral tradition, things being passed along, in a kind of a fluid, religious, you know,
continuity. Right. So, which is why these divergences also make me kind of question, did it really come from a biblical source? Your scholarly source? What are your thoughts on that topic?
Yeah, so it's a big question.
But there was definitely a lot of
other oral Bible right in the atmosphere, a lot of storytelling, a lot of popular storytelling. Just think about how the average Muslim what the average person knows about the Quran and even knows about a story that is actually in the Quran. If after recounted what they might add to it, assuming that that is in the text, or vaguely remember that it's in the text. So there was a lot of that going on.
At a popular level, and then there was kind of this professional embellishment of embellishment as well, you know, so harmonies, which were designed, it's like, there's a butter here. And it was just seen as it's fine to take these stories, embellish them to Yeah, if it's going to benefit the congregation, make them love God more magnify God more, make them understood, whatever. And so that was, you know, and those sort of things would be sung that begins by the judges. Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty epic. Shall I read the I just want I just want to say one more thing, the translation of Do you mean to reign over us? Do you mean to rulers? So it's not it's not great. The in the Hebrew you
have the full Muslim being us, so you go to rule over us a ruling. And are you going to rain over sir raining? Right? So it's sudo serious? It's you know, it's like it's not it's not saying do i do you intend to do this is saying you
are really gonna do this?
Yeah. Wow.
we're not the only ones have proper translation issues. How so?
It wasn't a unique problem for the Arabs. Yeah. So okay, so and they hated him all the more any dream yet another dream and recounted this to his brothers. Here we go again, brothers, and not the father. Look, I dreamed a dream again. And look, the sun and the moon and 11 stars were bowing to me notice the sequence. And he recounted it to his father and his brother. Can I just pause you there? Absolutely.
You can. Yeah, just all right. So what's really interesting here is the first dream is admitted in the Quran, right?
And that's indeed for me. That's immediately
Interesting, because in terms of the issues that it raises, the first dream, you'd think raises less theological issues. And the second one, because he has just she was battling to another sheaf, right? Whereas the second one, they're actually bowing to Joseph himself. And so you might think that look for a book like, like the Quran, which is so insistent on the heat. If you're going to keep one of these dreams, why not keep the first one? And it seems it seems intuitively less problematic, right? But there's some really interesting things happening here. So firstly,
this dream The second dream has some interesting interpretations in both rabbinic sources and in Christian sources. So in rabbinic sources, for example, this they noticed the discrepancy is very obvious one, which is that Joseph's mother is dead. She died earlier in the story, right. Rachel's not is not there. So what's this idea of the moon borrowing to Joseph? And one of the solutions was that this shows that
what? Yeah,
sorry, have you heard? Yeah, so here, so do you?
color
in not?
Okay. What's on here? Yeah, you have this. You have my notes.
List. translational theater, Rosie has reduced.
He noticed this mom, Rosie, nurse this? Sure. Yeah, he said, Some said that the sun and moon represent his father and his maternal and his color.
Words, which indicate again, he's not saying the Bible says reports, which indicate that his mother had already died before this combination in Egypt.
And, you know, that comes up again later on when,
by the way, this is a phenomenal conversation. And I must because this is not a lecture, I must say that some people Mashallah there's so more so much more Islamic than Islam that are just so concerned that you too, are not fasting. So I just wanted to just interject.
Know that they're in the UK? And they've already had our time, okay.
Yes, because I can see them off for you, because your brain tells them what to milk.
Right?
is this? Am I drinking with my left hand in this?
week?
I'm in the wrong direction.
distress anybody?
dragged me?
Back to the subject at hand, so on?
Or so then what is the moon referring to? Right? So one of the rabbinic interpretations is that this shows that a dream might only get partial fulfillment, which is hugely problematic if it's a prophet prophetic dream, right. So one of the things the Quran does is insist to refer to Allah ours, which is completely absent from the Bible. Right? We insist that that did happen. Yeah. both his parents, yeah, say and insist that that happened? And,
you know,
not
whether or not is the brother making it irrelevant whether or not she's the biological mother?
I mean, that's the future tell us is that?
Is that possible? So what I don't know one of the things that so you have several right, rabbinic traditions of ask, right, so this is one interpretation. Another one is that
even though
Rachel, his mother in the biblical text, she dies giving birth to Benjamin, read the younger brother.
And
in Genesis robar, which is a early kind of commentary on Genesis that this discrepancy also noted. And they said, Well, actually, maybe Joseph was the son of Bill hog mentioned earlier, who was a, like a slave Nathan, of Rachel. And so he sort of attributed to Rachel even though he's so they they're trying to get around it.
But what I like is the Quran def definitive does, definitively does away with this idea that a dream receives only partial fulfillment, right? If it's a prophetic dream, it can be fully fulfilled.
It's also interesting, you know, holla,
holla holla till women zealots let alone Yeah. Yeah.
Trying to see if I can see. There's also even a suggestion that she was brought back to life for the purpose and things
Like this. Oh, wow. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. The gymnastic event okay.
Yeah. So he'll be a big thing to have happen and there will be a little less shocked by the finding the brother and a little more shocked by it.
Got it?
Yeah, in fact, Rosie mentioned that particular tradition as well. The maternal aunt is like a mother or a maternal and is a mother in the way a paternal uncle just had a Razzie thought process without reading.
channeled.
And also, you know, awakening Kabbalah. Kabbalah, Ibrahima
is kind of thing but it's more than just the I always mentioned smile
as an app, right, which is actually the uncle right in, in Bukhara, Cora 1330. Abba Ibrahim. Oh, is Mariela was
reading it there in a literary sense as your forefathers or your your ancestors? Right. Right. They just it's just that the word up can be kind of extensive enough to go yet include uncle or in this case on? Yeah. Is there? Is there something like he married her or something later on? Is there something like that? And the biblical version?
Married who made his hollow eventually? That's what it says. That's what it says. Oh, yeah. So Lee Hays. Holla. Was Leah.
Leah still alive?
Yes, this is a big problem, I say. Because it's, I say
it wasn't the case. But my understanding is that this is contrary to haha to Jewish law. You can't marry two sisters in the Quran. You can't.
But it's one of several instances where the patriarchs, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, they do things which are contrary to the ledger, data Jewish law. And you can say, well, Jewish law hadn't been revealed then it's kind of the point of the Quran makes Makana Ibrahim yahudi and villainous Ronnie right these things came later. So the Quran is kind of
inviting,
you know, description of laws that weren't revealed yet or prohibitions that weren't revealed yet. You know, antigen albina latini illa masala, isn't it? Right? Yeah. So it
already happened?
Yeah, there's nothing like when you when you're just reading the Torah, by itself, you don't encounter any difficulty here. It's only when you start competing with other information. And
this is the point to me as I wrap up today's portion of the discussion, guys. I think that one of the main takeaways here so far is that the Quran is simplifying something and taking points of discussion that we look, the conversations we've been having right now are not chronic. Right. And that's actually one of the contrast that I wanted to paint is that the Quran is taking the minds of those who did not know of this or electroencephalogram himself, is being told by him condemning probably Hillary novoline. Right? So this conversation that we're having right now, he's laughing of this text is awful of this lineage and these complex marital situations and who died and whatever
else. And local artists painting such a clean narrative focused on an agenda for, you know, spiritual guidance per item mentioned. And we're so lost in complexity here.
Yeah, but at the same time, I agree with us at the same time. I think there's enough detail in there, too, to show that the Quran is at the same time addressing Christian and rabbinic interpretation on interpretations of problematic interpretations. Because we even get to how the Christians interpret history and how they make it about Jesus. That's really interesting and how the Quran deals with that.
But maybe that's maybe
good for the same time tomorrow.
Fast like as much
out of time and will surprise the internet.
Okay,
guys, this has been phenomenal.