Channel: Navaid Aziz
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Bismillah Alhamdulillah wa salatu salam ala rasulillah salam alaikum wa rahmatullah over to everyone. Thank you for joining us this evening. And a huge thing
for kindly volunteering their time to be with us here today just have malachite on chicken, weed and manakin. We're really grateful for you guys to be joining us. So just for a quick introduction and some general notes before we get started, my name is without Taha, and I'm joined by my colleague and good friend magner Han, and we're going to be your host for today's panel chocolate.
We're both graduate students currently at the University of Calgary, and we're both studying our masters of counseling psychology. So we both have a strong interest in Telfer, working in the Muslim community, as psychologists with individuals, couples and families, and the new in the near future. And so this kind of all relates to why we're having this panel discussion today. Because, you know, we've had multiple discussions with family members or friends, people within our circles in the community who have these questions related to marriage, mental health, and just navigating relationships. And so our intention was to bring together two experts in their respective fields to
answer such questions. And so with that, we'd also like to thank everyone who took the time to submit questions for this panel. So these are the questions that we're going to prioritize today until online, get those answered. And if we have time at the end, we will kind of go over some questions that you guys can submit through the q&a box just right at the bottom of your screens, through zoom. But to respect everyone's time, we are going to really try hard to end at 630 and Chawla This goes for about an hour and a half. So with that, I will pass it on to Nora to introduce our guest panelists, and then we'll jump right into questions after that. Yeah, thanks for that. So
our first panelist is Chef
chef is a Canadian Muslim public figure with a diverse academic background. He was raised in Montreal, Quebec, where he completed a diploma in commerce and social studies from Champaign college before heading to the Islamic University of Medina. I'm so sorry to interrupt you, but can you be a little bit louder? Yeah, I'm not.
Yeah, yeah. No worries. Is that better? Yeah, it's a little bit better now.
Okay, so our first panelist is shifting a bit Aziz. He is a Canadian Muslim public speaker with a diverse academic and social background. He was raised in Montreal, Quebec, where he completed a diploma in commerce and social sciences from Champaign college before heading to the Islamic University of Medina, where he completed an associate's degree in Arabic language and literature and a bachelor's degree in Islamic law. Upon returning home to Canada, Chef COVID began teaching Krav Maga Institute, and since then he's transitioned to their Director of Public Relations. During this period, he volunteered as the Islamic editor for little explorers magazine, and began his work as a
youth and family counselor. In 2012, Chef navaid moved to Calgary, Alberta to become the director of religious and social services for the Islamic Society of Calgary, a position he currently holds. In 2015, Czech Nova became the first ever Muslim chaplain with the Calgary police services.
The second panelist we have here today is Mr. Mina Hill. bugga Wallah. She's a licensed mental health counselor in New York. She completed her undergraduate and graduate education at New York University in general and special education and literacy, education and then she completed a master's in clinical mental health counseling. me now has also completed the program of study at the alkota Institute, and continued her studies in Egypt and various Islamic organizations afterwards. Throughout her travels and studies mental health passion is to bring awareness of mental health and wellness to the community through an Islamic lens. she conducts workshops on parenting wellness,
marriage and addictions amongst others. Um, oh, Manal has completed her marriage counseling training through the Gottman Institute. And she's partnered with the Institute to author the Islamic Reference Guide for the Gottman method. Currently, Mina has a private practice where she works as a mental health counselor covering a client base with a broad range of mental health issues and trauma through individual family and couples therapy. So thank you so much to our two panelists for taking time out of their busy schedules to be with us here today. So with that being said, we'll just jump right into the questions inshallah. So, the first question, the first set of questions are addressed
to both Chef nibin and Sister manado. So the first question is, what qualities should one look for when seeking a spouse? And what are some factors that can be overlooked, overlooked versus those that are non negotiable? So factors such as physical attraction, education, job ethnicity, so either
Have innovated our system and are how you guys just one of you guys can start inshallah. Now please go ahead. I was advised that you were going to go ahead and start.
I was going to shift on it.
So this is, you know, this is a good question. And I think you know, the standard answer to this question of what a person should look for. Usually, you know, people say, okay, make your non negotiables education, this that looks and standards like that. However, I'm going to go a little bit of a different route. One of the things that I see that is an absolute non negotiable across the board is, you know, what Alaska without a has outlined and they'll come on, in. So it's a woman, the idea that we see in every on every marriage invitation, right, the first piece of less of that says he has created spouses really to school, no ha ha, so that you can get so going from one another.
And one piece of this word that you know, he does, you know, a piece of that is that concept of safety. And safety is an absolute non negotiable in a relationship. So you can have someone who is as educated as you want them to be, or comes from a particular place, or family background or particular job particular, they could be the best looking person in your eyes. But if they speak to you, in a way, or they criticize you in a way, or there's something that tells you that I am not safe in this relationship, then that should be a red flag. That to me from the standpoint of just what I see, you know, in the therapy in the realm of therapy, and in a lot of people who come to me
for marriage related advice, that safety pieces are non negotiable, everything else. That's the first layer. After that we come to what people talk about, okay, what are the negotiables? The non negotiables? and stuff like that?
Really, that's a question that you have to ask yourself, because you have to know yourself well enough to know what your needs are? Do you need someone who's going to be very predictable? And very, you know, what, you know, what are your love languages? What's the family that you grew up in, that you you know, the things that you think are a norm, if you need a predictable schedule, maybe you need a husband or a wife who is going to you know, have a very a nine to five job or you know, something like that maybe you're more driven and you want someone who's more of an entrepreneur, right? What's going to feed you what's going to nurture you in the relationship. So a big piece of
you know, looking for a spouse is knowing yourself well enough the idea of the love languages, right? What is it that for you makes you feel loved and cared for and nurtured in a relationship and look at your closest relationships, the healthy relationships that make you feel good when you part ways with that person you feel full emotionally? Look at what's going on? What is that person giving, giving to you? Is it that they spend time with you? Is it that they compliment you? Is it that you know, you get to give them a they when you part ways they give you a really nice hug and that feels really good. check in and see what your needs are. And that's that's one way for you to
tell what is a non negotiable for you and your relationship moving forward.
Is that Calico Thank you so much. And hamdulillah salatu salam ala rasulillah. One early, he was talking to a woman about my dear brothers and sisters, Salaam Alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh.
From my perspective, I think one of the important things to keep in mind is our purpose of creation, which is to worship Allah subhana wa Tada. So when we're looking for our spouses, ultimately, what you're looking for, is someone that will help you worship Allah subhana wa dial and get you to paradise. So that is the number one thing that should be the driving force in the marriage. After that, I think this concept of what is allowed to be overlooked and what is allowed, what is non negotiable. This becomes very personal in terms of our own preferences, our own life goals and ambitions. And what we're looking for, we're striving for in terms of this dunya. So as long as
you've prioritized the deen and you've made one of the will, you've made the primary objective of your marriage to get closer to Allah to get to paradise, then everything else I think is personally up to you to figure out and what you need and what you're looking for in terms of this dunya. So I do believe physical attraction is very important for both genders. I do believe compatibility is also very important for for both people as well. So having similar goals in mind, similar objectives in mind, in terms of number of children, how to raise them, where we're going to live, all of those things I think do needs to be discussed.
So this is just a compliment What sister Manor has already stated, along with safety and feeling secure. So I think as long and this was the advice of the prophets of Allah, why there's some that if you always choose the person that then then you will be successful in the state. Now, Dean has to be understood in this proper context. I think one of the things that is ended up happening in our day
ages that we've restricted the demean just knowledge of Islam. And that's not the case the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, he highlights the deen. And he highlights a good character. So this ties in perfectly to what system and that he was saying in terms of safety, that you also want to look to their character and make sure that their character is conducive to what Islam says to your lifestyle, to how you want to your children raised as well. Now, the latter part of the question, What if the person one loves and wants to marry isn't religious? Should the relationship be ended on this factor? So you have to understand that faith is something that goes up and down, it is
something that fluctuates, it is not something that stays stagnant. So as long as the person has identified that they are willing to pursue this journey, if they're not religious, prior to the marriage, give them some time to work on themselves and get to that state where they wants to be. If they're going into their marriage, hoping that you're going to make them religious, I would identify that as a big red flag, if you're not able to work on your relationship with Allah subhanaw taala. Without your spouse before you get married, going into the marriage is not going to make things much, much easier. It requires self discipline, it requires self practice, right? So keep those
things in mind. Now, if the faith goes down after the marriage, then we want to look at what's causing that what are those external effects of factors outside of the marriage and inside of the marriage that are leading to state and that's something that can be worked on. But if it's prior to the marriage, then yes, I would consider that a red flag.
Okay, so that
we can move on to the next slide. Thanks. Well, so these questions are specifically addressed to chef in a bit. So the first one is what is the islamically appropriate way for a woman to quote unquote, make the first move.
So if a sister's interested in the brother, then there's no harm in making the first move. And we have to understand that there are cultural taboos around this even those of us that are born and raised in the West, it still is a cultural taboo. Now, what's important to keep in mind is that when your intentions are pure, and that's the first key thing, always make sure your intentions are pure, that the art for the sake of marriage, and pleasing Allah subhana wa, tada and protecting oneself, then the next thing to do is to get your Wendy involved, and ask your family to approach this brother to see if they're interested, and then start the courting process from there where you get
to know one another.
Okay, and just to follow up on that, what are some ways of getting to know someone? So more service ticket specifically, is it okay for a man and a woman to meet in a public place, or text or call in order to get to know each other for the purposes of marriage? Excellent. So Well, I think there has to be a gradual progression that takes place in the courting process. So the initial phase should be meeting with the family and the families meeting one another, to see if this is something that both families want, and both parties want. And then beyond that, there's a lot of flexibility in terms of what takes place. So a man and a woman are allowed to meet in a public space, as long as they're not
alone. They're allowed to meet in each other's houses, as long as they're not alone in the room. And in this courting process, eventually, when they reach that decision, of are we ready to get married to one another or not. And they've made that decision and they get engaged, I would feel comfortable that part that that is when they exchange text messages or WhatsApp messages at that point, to plan the marriage and to make those decisions at that point. But prior to that, I've seen access in terms of you know, both men and women, that once they start texting with one another, pictures come thereafter, we want to share our lives with one another. emotions get attached even before the
engagement period. And that becomes something that is incorrect and should not happen. Now, as for phone calls, I think that's perfectly fine. Again, along with the consent of the Wali, if that is there, and they are allowed to call one another. She does the willing actually needs to be on the phone when they are talking. I don't believe that to be the case. I don't believe that to be the case as long as that consent is there. Now the most important thing I can remind myself and everyone else here with is the taqwa of Allah subhana wa tada that with these modern means when it is only you and another individual, you have to understand that Allah subhanaw taala is that third party
that Allah subhanaw taala hears everything that you say, and Allah subhanaw taala knows what's inside. So always keep your intentions pure. And always understand that just because there's no other human being there, it doesn't mean the angels aren't recording what you're saying. It doesn't mean that unless panel with the other doesn't hear and know what you're seeing as well. So always try to keep it as highlighted as much as possible.
Fair. And just a follow up on that. So if once parents disapprove of a person or a potential continually due to an Islamic reasons, most, most commonly, you know, race culture, what are ones options? And then who is considered a well, Lee? And what order? Do I approach them? So that's kind of related to the question right above. Excellent.
So if the parents continuously disapprove, and this is primarily the girls, Willie herself, if he continues to disapprove, based on non Islamic reasons, then she does have recourse at that time, she does have recourse at that time. And what I would suggest is reach out to your local Imam and reach out to your local chef, and allow them to intervene in the process.
Actually, sorry, let me reaching, let me change that. The first thing you want to do before you get too involved, is try to get other family members involved and see if they can intervene, like your siblings, like your aunts, and uncles.
And that is of no value at that time, then get your local emammal your local shake, involve, just sit down with your parents explain the consequences of what can happen. And then at that time, one of two things will happen either the sheriff will appoint himself the body or the shear will ask you, you know, who is your closest male relative from your father's side, because the wilaya generally,
is meant to be from the father's side. Now that can be very,
you know, problematic within the family, like, especially if, if the father is no longer involved with the brother, his brothers, when a lot lot not want to be involved, perhaps the sibling will not want to be involved. So it can get very problematic. So that is why obviously just let the Imam or the sheriff figure out at that time, who is the best person to become the one. So if you've gotten the sheriff involved, you know, let them figure out what to do at that point in Sharma.
Okay. Yeah, go ahead.
And check anyway, just as a follow up to what you said earlier, you've mentioned that, you know, when you gain consent from the parents and charlo, they could kind of call me in public places, however, how how about if one wants to get to know somebody, but let's say due to race, they know their parents will not be okay with that. Are they allowed to talk to that person beforehand, before approaching their parents to see if it's kind of worth it? Or is that like a No, no. So I think over here, there's going to be a lot of cultural stigma as well. And that's what we're trying to avoid. Now, in terms of the courting process, officially, getting to know a person for the sake of marriage
is one thing, but getting to know a person are they even qualified to get married is another. If you're just making that preliminary assessment, that is this person ready to get married and to find out more information, then I don't think it's good for them to be in a private in the first place, right? Get a sister that knows a brother who knows that brother, or find a married sister that has a husband to speak to that brother. And you can find multiple ways to make that assessment, but cording without the consent of the Wali. Even though, which it may not be outright explicitly Haram is definitely not the best way to approach things, and to gain the trust of your parents and to show
maturity and responsibility.
okay to talk one of clerics are going to move on to the next set of questions. So these are for both system inaho and chef of it. So the first question is what strategies are effective for individuals who are experiencing low mood related to wanting to get married, but not finding a suitable slash compatible spouse?
lit system and I have gotten this one inshallah.
So the first thing I'll say about this question is that, you know, if a person is wanting to get married, and that's, you know, they're of age, and they're looking, you know, this is unfortunately, all too common in this day and age and you find yourself in a little, you know, experiencing a low mood.
Then, number one that's natural, and that's normal, you know, that's a part of the human condition, we want, you know, we're built to have companionship, to have that to be in relation to one another, and when that's not available to us, then it will hurt, right? So I never want to, you know, just shun or, you know, push aside feelings that a person has of sadness or whatever it may be coming up, related to not being able to find a spouse. Now, that's the first thing. The second piece to this is, you know, take some time to
engage in introspection, right? Think about what it is that you need in looking for a spouse or in a spouse. And, additionally, then what's the barrier in getting there? Right. And, you know, we have all of the advice that people will give to get out there to you know, take whatever steps necessary to get
On these marital apps and websites and stuff like that, but what I'm going to suggest is something a little bit different, right? So my lens is coming from the perspective of, you know, from a therapeutic perspective, looking at what are the patterns that we engage in in our life? What are the patterns that we developed early on in our life way before we were of marriageable age, that impact how we look for a partner that impact who we attract, that impact our own kind of,
you know, our sense of connectedness, right? So if a person for example, has a very, you know,
a tendency to become overly attached or you know, we might say clingy, you might want to think about, okay, what's going on for me, what, what patterns did I develop earlier on, that are causing that kind of an approach to a relationship, right, or if a person has a tendency, tendency to shut down, and I'm saying this based on all the stuff that I see from the clients that I see who are looking for spouses who are really struggling, right, that have this kind of tendency, perhaps to just shut down and be like, you know, the at the slightest whiff of disappointment, or the slightest whiff of AI might possibly, maybe at some point get hurt by this person, they just completely shut
down and say, call it a day. Right? So what are the things that are, you know, that are barriers in your process of finding a partner, that's, you know, taking, you know, for granted the fact that you've, you've put in the effort that you've, you know, looked in the community contacted people that know, people that you've tried, you know, give it a fair shot, right. I mean, you know, for people who say, I'm not doing the online thing, I completely I can, you know, I've heard enough horror stories about it, that I can understand why a person wouldn't want to, but I'd say you know, give it a fair shot. So if you have given everything a fair shot, if you've put in that due
diligence, and you're trying and it's not working, it might be time to stop and say not to place blame, not to say it's all my fault, and I'm not lovable. But if that is a train of thought that runs in your mind, I'm a loser, there's something wrong with me, that might need to be addressed before you can go into a relationship and fully in a healthy way, be present with a partner.
You know, so, nothing, in conclusion, nothing will take the place of a partner, you will, it's understandable to be sad, it's understandable to have low mood to feel, you know, let down. And unfortunately, you know, for a lot of people I find, you know, Muslims come to me for therapy, because of the, you know, religious connection. And I find that a lot of times people start to blame a loss, and I will die. And I, you know, we ask last protection from that, you know, but the sadness is understandable. But you have to take responsibility to find the means to, you know, to the ways that you can get your needs met, in the time that you're waiting. So that's the third piece of this
is in the time that you are looking for a spouse and have not yet found one, think about what your needs are, or your needs to have loving touch. I know someone who is looking for a spouse, they've you know, gotten divorced. And with this person's permission, I'm sharing this example, you know, she took up horseback riding because she really needs like, touch, right? That's some people's love language. And without that they feel starved emotionally. So she took up horseback riding, she doesn't have a whole lot of means of getting, you know, touch from the opposite gender, but horseback riding is head on. And so that's something that she has taken up for herself now. So think
about what your needs are and find other ways to have those needs met in the meantime, not as a replacement, because inshallah, you know, we we want, you know, we pray to that you find a spouse, but in the meantime, to sulk and to keep going deeper into that rabbit hole of sadness is very easy, you know, and we can lose our faith in that process. So I really, you know, urge people to take up something to figure out what your needs are, and take up something that's bigger than yourself take on something that's going to Expand your horizon of your purpose in the dunya.
Zack Calico, thank you so much.
I would add two things to this. Number one is that this concept of finding a suitable and compatible spouse is directly tied to the father of Allah subhana wa tada and dealing with the father of Allah subhanaw taala. So I think it's a very valuable point that system and I have made that we never reach a level where we start blaming Allah subhana wa Tada. So the two parts of this equation, a system that has identified is, are we doing our due diligence and putting our best foot forward and then after that, let Allah subhanho wa Taala do what all those panels other has to do. And when the time is right, you will find the person that is right for you. And this is why it is attributed that
Omar Abdullah and who used to say regularly as a part of his to do that, Oh Allah I do not know what is better.
For me on the you know what is best for me. And this is very important in this discussion over here that sometimes we become hasty where we want to get married, right here right now. But in reality Allah subhanaw taala knows that it's not best for you to get married right here right now, it could be detrimental to your deen, it could be detrimental to your alcohol, it can be detrimental to other relationships, and a wide variety of other reasons as well. So when the time is right, definitely you will get married busier later either. So that belief in other and revising our Eman and coddle is very, very important, particularly when we are struggling. The second thing I would highlight
over here is also, you know, trying to piggyback on what systembolaget was saying is looking at the different types of love, and trying to fill our hearts with those different types of love. Now, what I mean by that is the love of Allah subhana wa tada and even self love and I think those two, prior to marriage, your self esteem or self confidence are very, very important. And those two, you know, directly tie into your self esteem and self confidence that if you're not experiencing and feeling the love of Allah subhana wa Tada. And if you don't love yourself that self confidence and that self esteem will be very, very low. So with that being said, you want to look at ways of building your
relationship with Allah subhanaw taala and strengthen that relationship in terms of the code and to our and recitation of the Quran, and just trying to be the best Muslim that you possibly can. And then also in terms of self love, practicing self care and practicing things that will make you love yourself and make you feel self confident, as well. So those are the two things I would like to add to what sister Manal stated.
Yeah, bar coffee calm for those beautiful answers. Um, you guys will kind of answer the second question. So I won't ask it. But for the third, how do you deal with unrequited love, so love that is one sided.
Let's just go on I have
my very biased response to that would be go to therapy.
You know, there's there's a lot here and I'm assuming that because this is a marriage panel, we're talking about adult love. Right. But you know, what I what I've learned in all of my studies of trauma, and specifically attachment trauma,
a lot of times in adulthood, the way that our relationships play out, is that we unless we are intentionally trying to change the patterns of our younger years, very often, we are reenacting our relationships, our our earliest attachment relationships. And so if we're talking about unrequited love, we want to think about what is it that keeps us in a relationship that is one sided? What is it that pulls us into a position where we give give give to the detriment of our own self? And so how to deal with it? I would say, you know, I mean, again, I say, not so jokingly is, you know, it's something that requires a deeper look at oneself to say, What has my story been thus far? And how in
what ways? Am I repeating that story? Or in what ways does my story contribute to where I am now in this one sided relationship? And then how can I then once we understand it, once we develop more clarity on that, then we can be intentional, and how to do things differently, to change those patterns to hopefully insurance lead to healthier relationships?
In my mind, I've sort of made like a flowchart. And the flowchart for this question is, number one, is this something that always existed in this relationship? Or is it something that started to exist? Then the second part of the flowchart is, is it perception? Or is it reality? And I think the part of perception reality really ties into what sturminster was saying, is looking deep down inside that if this didn't exist before, and is now started to exist, What's changed? Has this person changed? Have I changed, something must have changed, and then look deeper inside that in terms of myself, you know, what are those changes that have happened that perhaps or are leading to this, but
I think one of the things to always highlight over here is, you know, in the in the the relationship of marriage, and I think that's what we're speaking about over here is the importance of happening of having an open and frank conversation, that if you can't have an open and frank conversation with your spouse, who are you going to have that frank conversation with right, it is supposed to be the deepest level of trust, to the degree that Allah subhana wa tada has revealed, you know, that the veils of a
of privacy, right? That you're allowed to be that person in front of them. So with that, having being said, finding the courage, finding the right time to have that conversation and express how you feel that explain how you're feeling, and tell them why your feelings that you were and how you think either things have changed, or something else that that has happened, and have the conversation, and you would find that, that is a first step can usually go a very long way. Now, along this journey, you may find that yes, you do need external support, where perhaps both parties go to counseling and the therapist, or perhaps just you yourself, go for it for counseling and
therapy. And I want to reiterate that, that even though Sr menaggio said it, you know, partially as a joke, the need for counseling and therapy as a preventative measure is so important. Like we always want to go for counseling and therapy, when like the relationship is like on the brink of destruction or at each other's throats. Let's go for counseling, then. No, not at all. Like this concept of premarital counseling is so important. And even once you're married, from time to time, just checking in with a therapist and a counselor and just asking, Hey, what can we do to improve our relationship, as a preventative measure will go very, very far. So I know a lot was said, but
inshallah there was some value in it. Excellent. So moving on. So this is for both speakers. So once again, so the first question is, what advice would you give a new couple to help them build a healthy foundation for the relationship? Ie, you know, like communication strategies, things like that?
Excellent. Sister, Mother, how would you like to go first? I was Well, I mean, Hamdulillah, I can shorten my response because you just answered it. One of the things I would have said to this is the preventative measures that you mentioned.
You know, that's so important. I get like almost giddy when I get people coming in for premarital counseling. Because it's so so important, because you know, and I tell couples when they come for premarital counseling, that I am going to look for the problems. I don't expect this to be an OH MY GOD, we love each other. And we're getting married in a month process. I am looking for the potholes. I'm looking for the landmines. And I want them to be found here where I can actually be a guide in helping you to figure out how to navigate those things. So that once you leave here, having had premarital counseling, you're not leaving here, just knowing that you can inshallah get married
with a little bit more ease of your heart, but also with tools to navigate the hard stuff when not if it comes up because it's going to come up, but when it comes up. And so that's the first thing what she navaid mentioned is, you know, the preventative measure of getting the premarital premarital counseling. And I, you know, You took the words right out of my mouth, when you said people come to counseling when things have gone awry. You know, women talk about the Gottman Institute. Their research finds that people have been in turmoil in marriage for at least an average six years of turmoil, not marriage, but turmoil in the marriage before they get counseling. I've had
couples come in to me for counseling after over a decade of turmoil, not a decade of marriage, a decade of turmoil in the marriage, and then getting frustrated, when successions don't suffice to solve the problems that took 10 years to accrue, you know, over 10 years to accrue. And so the preventative measures are absolutely imperative. I, you know, premarital couples, especially but my marriage, you know, people come to me for marriage counseling as well.
The first thing you want to do is you want to educate yourself, you don't we can't go into marriage, saying that I'm gonna do the things my parents did, because they had a 40 year old marriage, their challenges their culture, their, you know, era was different. So much has changed the mindset, the lifestyles, you know, social media, there's so much influencing how we think and we feel about ourselves in our relationships. You have to be proactive, you have to take the workshops, date, read the books to educate yourself, right and find the sources that are going to teach you the skills to communicate effectively. Notice when things are starting to get sticky, and then right as soon as
they do get help. Don't wait until there's deterioration in order to get help before you start getting help. So that's, you know, just as a foundation, that's where I would say people should start.
Does that qualify? Thank you so much.
So if I would add to that, again, I would break it down to pre marriage and post marriage or rather pre nikka had post nikka so pre nikka. I completely agree taking those preventative measures, doing premarital counseling, understanding the psychology of the opposite gender understanding communication styles of the opposite gender, are very, very important. Likewise, understanding
The way we handle stress and anxiety is also very, very important. Now post marriage, I want to highlight something that often gets neglected, or the the suddenness of the of the night of marriage itself, where the Prophet sallallahu alayhi, wasallam, encouraged to pray together as one of your very first actions together. And I believe that wouldn't of itself is very symbolic of, we're building our relationship together in our journey towards Allah subhanaw taala. And I think that always has to be a focus in the relationship. So praying together on that first night and praying together as much as you can, after that is very, very important as well, engaging in religious
And doing activities together is also very, very important early on in the relationship. Now I know in this day and age, one of the things we naturally resort back to is, okay, let's get onto the couch, let's watch Netflix or watch something on TV. And we consider this time together. And in reality, that's more dead time than it is anything else, because there's no real bonding experience that's taking place. So what I'm referring to is doing a new activity together, you've never done before reading a book together, you know, critically analyzing something like art or poetry, or something of that nature, where you're engaged with each other's thoughts. So I think those sorts of
activities where you're getting to know each other on a deeper level, particularly in the end, at the beginning of the relationship is very, very important. And then last but not least, you know, you need this reminder, whether at the beginning, or your your veteran in the marriage, is that at the end of the day, or last kind of with either awards you for every act of kindness that you do towards your spouse, and that has to keep, you know, make a reminder of that for yourself throughout your marriage, that any act of kindness that you do. My spouse may not recognize it, but Allah subhanaw taala does. And at the end of the day, when we do things for the sake of Allah subhana wa,
tada, Allah subhanaw taala inspires that love and inspires that gratitude into our spouses, if it is right for us, insha Allah, that's what I would share on that, Can I add something to this, of course, please.
So just as you were speaking, sure, hey, had the thought, you know, such like, the suggestion to do new activities together is so great, because what happens to psychologically when you're doing something that's a little bit exciting, your dopamine, your you know, all of those like excitement hormones are going to be there that are going to actually make you more attracted to your spouse. Now, when you start doing these things, engaging in these critical things together actually builds the muscle of communication, which I know it's that's in parentheses, communication. So another piece of this is actually early on in the relationship, it's so critical to be willing to have the
difficult conversations, if something is not going well, if you if you're engaging with each other and the way they're talking and sharing Now, I mentioned, you will be better equipped to have difficult conversations and be vulnerable in those difficult conversations early on in the marriage before the pain has accrued before the injuries have become insurmountable or more difficult to get past. And so doing the good stuff together will also inshallah lead to a better capacity to have the difficult conversations and you have to be willing to do that it's easy to overlook them in the beginning, but it's also easier to develop the muscles for having those hard conversations in a
kind, compassionate manner, early on as well.
Yeah, thank you both so much. So the second question is how do you increase compatibility between two partners, especially in cases where partners are raised in different cultures and environments?
the thing here is, you know, coming back to I think what she said in the beginning, right, what is our purpose that a lot, you know, with which Allah subhana wa, tada has put us on this earth, right? And to understand what is the bigger picture for both partners, and because that supersedes culture and environment and all of those things. And so if two people can have a shared vision, who who can develop shared meaning for their life as a dotnet is put in, right, something that's bigger than ourselves, what is what is it that we want in life, right? our moral principle values if those things if people you know, if a couple can work on developing, you know, being on the same page and
those different aspects that I think the other things will fall into place a little bit more easily.
Elon as best as I can. Okay, so when I saw this question at first, I'm like, Man, this is such a loaded question. Like when we're talking about increasing compatibility, does that mean that compatibility doesn't exist or that it exists, and we just want to increase it. So I think, let's talk about the first scenario where compatibility doesn't exist. If you've identified that pre marriage, and you're still pursuing this relationship, that is a big red flag that you've identified, we're not compatible, but perhaps due to physical attraction, you're continuing to continue to pursue that relationship. I would, you know, stop and reassess. You know, what I'm doing
at that time? And it seems really logical, but people still pursue it. Exactly. It's all the time while you're saying it. Now. It's like, of course, of course not. You wouldn't do it. But yeah, I mean, as they say, love is blinding, right. And I think that what ends that that's what ends up happening is that, you know, that infatuation with the other individual just blinds us to reality and what the future might entail. Now, let's just say the second scenario where you're married, and compatibility is already there, and you wanted to increase it, then I think this goes back to doing activities. You know, what this idea of doing new activities actually came from something that I was
reading earlier, on how to build,
you know, resilience in your child. And one of the things that was recommended was doing puzzles with your child, so that your child will a will be able to see how you deal with stress. And that's how they're meant to deal with stress. And then that leads to discussion and dialogue, and what to do when you're frustrated, and so on, and so forth. So increasing compatibility, I think takes on a similar role, where when you're both trying new things, for the first time, you find each other strengths, you find each other's weaknesses. And that's what compatibility is, a lot of it is about that, once you've identified those things, then you can work on those things together. And the main
thing is, as cliche as it sounds, spending that quality time on getting to know one another is so important.
awesome. And then how does a couple go about outlining expectations and boundaries, not always with one another.
system and I have placed
the simplest response I have for this is, you know, what I said earlier, is be willing to have those conversations. But with that being said, those conversations have to be had with a willingness to adapt and a willingness to compromise.
And being able to talk listen to your spouse, as to what it is that they're hoping for. So let's say you know, they say,
you know, I only want, you know,
I don't want to visit your family on, you know, the third weekend or, you know, every single weekend, okay? That might not be what you want, but to say, okay, help me understand what's behind that helped me understand, what is it that you do want, you're saying you don't want this, but what's behind that and to be willing to listen, right? Because if you've listened, and your partner feel seen and heard, and you've shown empathy, then there's going to be a higher chance that your partner is going to be willing to give you a chance to speak, if you just start pushing back right away, we think that we're going to push, and somehow our partners are going to come closer, and be
more willing to engage with us. But we're actively pushing away what they're telling, you know, what they're telling us is important. And so having those conversations with a willingness to listen, with a willingness to adapt, and a willingness to, you know, show empathy and compassion towards your spouse
does occur. Thank you so much. So again, I break this down pre marriage and post marriage, pre marriage, I think it's a lot easier to have difficult conversations to a certain degree, just because there's no expectation of this relationship continuing that, hey, if something goes wrong, you know, there's no responsibility for this relationship to continue. So what I always recommend is, and excuse the the self promotion over here, but I did a podcast with him feed on 10 conversations to have before you get married. And it talks about, you know, the expectations and boundaries that we need to set. So a lot of that is dependent on knowing yourself and understanding
what you expect and what your personal boundaries are so that you can identify that for someone else. That's in a premarital stage. I'm in a post marital stage. If I were to look at this question, someone that's married is asking me this question. What I understand from the question is I'm having difficulty with my spouse outlining the expectations and boundaries. What can I do at this time, and I think this is a great opportunity that to use your counselor and your therapist, as that mechanism that get to the help of your counselor.
Or your therapist and just help you navigate through that where each of you perhaps aren't commuting, communicating properly, or perhaps there's a fear of communication, and let your counselor or therapist intervene and help you set those expectations and boundaries amongst yourselves. And again, you know, getting rid of that stigma of going to a counselor and or a therapist is so important. And I think this is a part of it, that using it again, as a preventative measure, that if you're struggling with something yourself, and you haven't found a way to do it, get advice from the professionals, right, this is even a command from Allah subhanaw taala in the
Koran first show that I love Victorian controllata at the moment that asked the people of knowledge, if you don't know. So that's in the post marital phase that you are not able to figure that out, then seek that professional help. And again, there shouldn't be any stigma around that.
Does that go out there?
So these questions are for our sister mental health. So the first one is, can you give advice on how to deal with unsolvable problems that come up between partners, ie those that lead to gridlock?
So that sounds like a question that came right out of the book by Dr. Gottman.
Because he had, there's a whole chapter on dealing with unsolvable problems. And what unsolvable. So the first piece of this is to understand what what's meant by unsolvable problems. So, unsolvable problems are those that keep recurring within a relationship. This happens because of two people being different at the core of who they are. So for example, the easiest example that I think everyone can relate to is, let's say one partner is a spender and one partner is a saber. Right? That and so naturally, throughout the relationship, there's going to be a constant, you know, tension that's going to recur over and over, because one partner is, you know, wants to splurge on
something and the other partner is so concerned about saving. And so how do you deal with that, because this is just at the core of these two people. They're just they're different in that way.
So you know, what happens with that. And what the problem is with that is, you know, it says here, those problems that lead to gridlock, over time, the tension increases with these problems. And so it's really important, because over time, each partner becomes more and more sensitive to this issue, and feels more and more attacked, possibly by the other person. So if you find that you and your partner, you and your spouse, keep hitting the same road bump, the same issue, that's probably an unsolvable problem. The way to deal with that, and this comes from the method that you know, Dr. Gottman has outlined is number one, to look at what the dream is within the conflict. And what that
means is usually underlying that issue, there is something much deeper. So for example, the spender might be someone who, you know, they both may have come from humble beginnings, right where their partner and parents struggled, or something like that, one of them may say, you know, I always dreamed of being able to spend money the way that I wanted to, and this was, you know, I wanted to grow up and be able to have that autonomy and this and that's a dream for them to have this freedom to be able to spend and this freedom to be able to, you know, provide for their family, and in a way that was not limiting, that might be the dream underneath. And for the other partner, the dream may
be, you know, I grew up with limited means, and I always had to worry when you know, that we weren't gonna have enough for the next month, whatever. So saving is really important to me, it gives me a feeling of security, and it gives me a feeling of stability in my life. So that's really important to me. And so now that each partner so that's what I mean by the first step is to look at what is the dream underlying the issue, there has to be and this is my you know, every like marriage program that I do, my go to thing is that you have to be willing to have a conversation about it. You have to be willing to listen, put your own agenda to the side for a moment and listen to your spouse and
say, okay, help me understand. What is it about spending that's so important for you? Tell me, what does it mean to you to be to spend? Like, what's the meaning that this holds? Why is it important? Is there a story that goes with that, right? So be willing to ask these questions, so you can understand the significance of this for your spouse? Once you do that, then spend some time and then you both, you know, share the deeper meaning for each with each other, then you take time to actually say, Okay, how can we and then there's a step and you know, and you can read the read about this in the book. But the next, you know, practical piece of this is to take time to then reach some
kind of a compromise. So for the spender and the saver, they might reach a compromise that says, hey, look, this is the amount that we want to maintain in savings. This might be like the lowest amount that we maintain in savings and that amount helps me feel safe and secure. The spender might say I need to have X amount of dollars, you know, per month or per
at whatever amount of time to be able to spend as much as I win in whatever way that I want, because that will give me that sense of freedom that I'm looking for. So the dream underneath the issue of finances is the freedom to spend or the security with savings. And so you can find some kind of a compromise based on what the dream is. And then the really, really important piece that comes after that is to show gratitude and to appreciate one another, when your spouse actually takes, you know, puts in an effort and you see that they're trying to help you reach that point of reaching your dream in with this unsolvable issue.
You know, luckily, it just reminds me how the government say that most problems are actually those perpetual problems, right. And so it's really important dialogue. So the next question is how to resolve different conflicts, how to resolve different conflicts. So for instance, one partner might have like, their conflict resolutions dial is to need space, and then another partner might walk away. So these two partners have very different styles, how do they kind of reconcile?
So this is, you know, one of the things I should have had mentioned earlier was, you know, we have to know our own how we handle stress going into. And so actually, this is something that I address it with, every premarital couple that comes to me, right is what is how do you deal with conflict, right? And understand, then we talk about so the way that we do it as we talk about each person's individual conflict resolution style, and then the dynamic between both of them and how that's going to look right.
And so there are two parts of this, and I'm going to talk about this for you know, from the lens of people who are married now, right. So it because I see this, people who are married, one person wants to storm out the door, and that activates the other person that makes them lash out more and we turn we it becomes a cat and mouse, right. So different, you know, resolving a different conflict resolution style usually, is this cat and mouse that we're talking about one partner gets activated and needs that comfort needs, that hug needs that warmth, the other person gets activated and needs to bolt right needs to get out of there. And that results in the first person then feeling even more
activated or abandoned or ignored, or, you know, feeling insignificant or on lovable or whatever may be coming up. So with this, number one, there is that individual piece of saying what's going on for me in those moments of conflict when my spouse does this, what do I need, and what happens for me when my spouse does this, and then coming to the table. And usually, you know, if this has been happening for a long time, it might be hard for a couple to do just on their own. And like, it probably would be important to get, you know, some support through marriage counseling for that to say, Okay, let's pay attention to this pattern that we're stuck in, right, because this is a
pattern. And Sue Johnson talks a lot about that, right? Let's notice the pattern. When I get angry, my voice starts going up. And so they might, you know, the before we get to the point where it explodes into one partner leaving and one partner shouting and screaming, we want to you know, we want to help couples recognize the kind of the preface to the blow up to the, you know, to that conflict getting to that point. And so one of the things I do with couples is I work with them on recognizing the pattern and saying, okay, you know, I, you know, I know that my voice starts to get raised, married, or the partner, the spouse, the husband might, let's say, for example, the husband
might say to the wife, and then he can tell her so when your voice starts to get raised, I start getting nervous because I go into that mental space where I think that everything I say or do now is going to be wrong, you know, and so I just start to shut down. And she might, you know, and so it's breaking down the pattern, she might then say, well, when you start to shut down, I feel like you're ignoring me. And that makes me even more angry. And I just start to keep going and going and going. And all I need from you in that moment is a hug and for you to tell me that if that's okay, that you know. And this actually this exact conversation I had with a couple not too long ago where we said,
you know, hey, when the spouse whose voice starts to go up, the other spouse should just put their hands on their shoulders and say, Hey, what's going on right now? I'm listening to you, rather than getting worked up and walking away. And we want to do that before it escalates to the point of the partner walking away about you know, and so resolving the different resolution styles would mean number one, know what you need, right? do some work with yourself to figure out where that kind of where that conflict resolution style is coming from. And what it is that you need in that situation. Number to have the conversation in a calm
Time write about the pattern about this kind of repetitive state that you fall into. And start way from the beginning, way before the actual conflict, so that you can notice, what are the things that tell you that you're about to get to that point. And someone needs to jump in and say, Hey, we're doing it again. We're starting to go, we're starting to move towards a conflict. You know, and I worked with a couple on that recently, I said, Hold on, let's pause right here, do you notice you're both getting into that place where you want to prove the other wrong? And when you get to that space, then nobody wins? Right? Because we completely lost sight of the actual topic. And now we're
just nitpicking on the words that each one of you is using. And they're like, oh, whoa, yeah, we are, you know, completely lost the topic, right. And so recognizing the patterns, but calling it out before it gets to the point of boiling over,
and then taking steps, deciding ways to actually break that pattern, break that cycle, before it gets to a point, finding cues to help each other do that
locally. And then the next one is how can someone change certain traits they possess that may impact their marriage, such as having low self esteem, anger, or shutting down when hurt?
I mean, we should know my answer to that.
Well, the question, you know, the question that I'll ask is, you know, if someone finds themselves in this situation is what brought you here?
what got us to this point, of having low self esteem or having anger or you know, shutting down on her. Normally, usually, not, usually, I would say probably 100% of the time, this part of us that shows up within a marriage is there to protect us.
And it's paradoxical, because we want if we, you know, these parts that are there to protect us whether even anger, right, shutting down, they're showing up, because somewhere along the way, we learned that this works.
Somewhere along the way, I learned that if I think badly about myself, that I can put up with more criticism from the outside. And so even that part of me that says, You're so horrible, you're you're worthless, and this and that, that developed somewhere along the way, to help me deal with my circumstances.
You know, beautiful,
you know, a session that I had recently, where we were talking about someone's fight part, right, their anger. And we realized that this part developed at a time in life where parents were unavailable, we're very critical or very, you know, just not available for any kind of nurturing. And where, you know, this, yeah, this person is a male who went to school, got connected with people who just anger was the only way to be safe. And now in the marriage, this person, that's how they deal with everything, because they access to the rest of the emotion. So that angry part is there to protect a person from actually having to deal with any vulnerability. Right? So the question is, how
did you get here? Where were these things learned? And how are they helping you? It seems very paradoxical again, because these are the things that seem to ruin our relationships. But they're there to help us. And if we understand these parts of ourselves, if we pay attention to these parts of ourselves, then we can better navigate them. Then we can actually say, oh, there's Oh, I feel myself getting angry again. Because all because I'm, I feel ashamed. We'll find that a lot of times anger is there to help us deal with shame. Anger is there to help us deal with vulnerable parts of ourselves that we don't know how to deal with. And so if we pay attention to the anger, usually we
say just push the anger away. No, but if we pay attention to the anger and say, okay, what's this anger trying to tell me?
Then we can say, Okay, I can deal with what this would the need that the anger is trying to have met unsuccessfully.
But when we meet the need and the anger component, that angry part of us can calm down.
And so the question I'd ask someone is, how did you get here? And what is how is this part serving you? And people usually get surprised by that, like my low self esteem is not serving Yes, but it did at some point. And if we figure out how it's serving us, and we can work on redirecting it.
Is that good luck hire Thank you so much. And so Chetna, these questions are for you. The first one is what does Islam say about challenging or accepting cultural norms that may make marriage difficult for a couple. So for example, gender norms according to a culture versus according to his
accent is that go ahead, Mark.
I just want to briefly touch on the previous session that system and I was speaking about, like one thing that kept coming to the forefront of my mind was the importance of subduing our ego in times of conflict. I think our ego kicks in and you know, we want to constantly prove ourselves, right and the other people wrong at times of conflict. But in terms of Islam, controlling one's ego in times of conflict is is very, very important. So I think that Islamic paradigm of conflict management is important as well, where we learn to control our egos in in times of conflict. So I just wanted to quickly touch on that. Now in terms of, or Jakub Nippon Sharma, in terms of this part over here of
challenging and accepting cultural norms.
It's a very vague question. And I think that may intentionally be the case. But let's approach this from principles in Islam. So one of the principles that we have in this is that matters of non worship are permissible until proven otherwise, whereas matters of worship are prohibited until proven otherwise. So when we talk about gender norms, it's important to understand that things are permissible, because it's a non worship related thing, until proven otherwise. So when I look at this question, one of the things I can understand from it is that perhaps in certain cultures, it's not normal for a woman to go to work, whereas in certain cultures, it actually is. So as you're
moving around, as you become a second generation person,
you know, how do you navigate through those things? So the first thing you always want to ask is, am I what I'm doing right now? Is it actually harder to hold on? If it's hard on you stay away from it? No problem. If it's valid, is it the best thing for me to pursue? And this is what people often don't navigate through properly? Is that just because something is halaal? It doesn't necessarily mean that it's best for me, right? So you want to ask that second tiered question, is it actually best for me? And then the third part you look at, and perhaps this is where the crux of our discussion takes place? is how do we discuss those things, and whose expectations Am I required to
live up to? So often, there will be pressure from the spouse, often there'll be pressure from our own families, often there'll be pressure from our in laws. And at the end of the day, you have to do after what is most pleasing to Allah, what is best for you. And I find often, in my experience with dealing with women in particular, they're very afraid to put themselves first, perhaps it's something that they're culturally ingrained with, perhaps something that this is that they're taught along the way, but they like to give preference to their spouse like to give preference to their children, they give preference to everyone else, as long as Allah spent with others happy with us.
You want to look at, you know, what is actually best for me. So what I would say, once we've figured out those three tiers of
you know, it being Khaled it being best for me, and moving forward from there, I think you should pick and choose your battles that, you know, we don't have to change every misconception that people have, or address every single conflict that's out there
and pick and choose your battles at that time.
is a little higher. The second question is what is the ruling on a man demanding his wife to contribute financially with the reasoning that we currently live in a modern society that is more expensive and requires dual income? Excellent, just like a look at one of the principles we have, in fact, is Aloha, Kamala Schaffer on and so what he that a ruling on the matter is based upon how you portray the problem. So the question over here is very, very specific when it is stated that the man is demanding his wife to contribute financially. So in this sort of situation, we want to understand that the default ruling is that the man islamically is responsible for providing food, shelter,
clothing, and necessities, or his spouse, that is the default ruling, this default ruling can change if it is pre negotiated, and can also change if the circumstances arise where a man is not able to support his family, then then that sort of situation, it does becomes a woman's responsibility to share the share what she can tell the husband is able to come back to that position.
Now, what I would highlight over here is the importance of financial literacy. And that is I think, again, you know, we're talking about preventative measures. If we learn how to budget if we learn how to earn money, if we learn how to spend money. You know, those three things in particular can go such a long way in resolving financial conflict in a marriage. And I believe it's very important to increase our financial literacy
In the in these matters, particularly before marriage, so that once you do get married, you are ready to go. So with that having been said, we understand what's the fixed says, but then we need to look at what is actually best for the marriage what is actually best for the marriage. So if there is financial turmoil, we wanted to look at how do I help my spouse get back on his feet, so that he can go back to providing and taking care of the family? And I think that's an important discussion to have as well.
Coffee calm, so now inshallah when I will lot connected over for answering the questions. And Sharma asking the question.
Zack, well, Hayden so far so, you know, given our limited time and tabla I for the slides that have both names, I'm just going to kind of assign them if that's okay. So for this slide, we'll start off with Jeff nomade. What is Islamic ruling on living with in laws after marriage? And just to kind of combine that second question, if they're physically well and financially able, does the wife have, you know, the permission to request her own space and not live with the parents? Excellent. So the Islamic ruling on living with in laws after marriage is that it is allowed and it is not mandatory? And to summarize the the answer to the second question, at any point in the marriage, the wife has
the right to request her own living quarters and her own living space, that is a fundamental right, that the wife is granted. Now, again, the difficult part is choosing between what is a fundamental right versus what is the best thing to do. And I love how the question mentioned that they're financially and physically well, because those are often the challenges. So given that they're financially and physically well, and that they're not dependent upon their son, then I don't see any problem at all, in terms of the wife asking for her own quarters and living space.
Just Apple iPhone. And for the next question. So how does one deal with toxic and abusive parents that are both abusive to their child and their child? spouse? So man I had if you want to answer this question, and chipping away, feel free to add on.
Sure, so with this, number one, if a person can't deal with this, then I would say, you know, this, this, this is why premarital counseling is important.
It's important. See, this is a hard question to answer. And I'll tell you why. It's because in this day and age, the the words toxic and abusive get thrown around like candy, right? Everyone's toxic, everyone's abusive, everyone, you know, so we have to really be careful about how we use these words, right. And, you know, there's also legitimate situation where people are toxic and actually abusive, right. And so that's the first piece is to really understand what these words mean. Now, if there are things where a person is, you know,
their relationship with their parents is one of like, complete subservience to to a fault, right. And now they've gotten married, and they don't know how to separate, they don't know how to create clear boundaries between their own family and their spouse, in the cases where there's actual toxicity or abuse, then, you know, that's something that
you know, pre marriage, if it comes up, if you notice that in a thing, then I would say that that would be a huge red flag to actually not move forward in the relationship, post marriage, then the, you know, you're seeing that your spouse is not able to do that, then a person has to take it upon themselves, to find ways to have these conversations to create boundaries that are really clear and explicit, this is a situation where a husband and a wife have to work together, to,
you know, to respect each other's needs to respect each other's space. But again, I say that with the awareness just because, you know, I see it far too often now that just everything, anything that doesn't go my way is toxic and abusive. And that's a danger as well. And we want to really be aware of that. Because, you know, for parents, as you know, asking something of their child, and that is at a time that you don't want it to be or you know, saying something that you didn't like, that wasn't about you. But, you know, that's different than maybe your relationship with your parents, which is very distant and just, you know, surface level formalities post marriage.
It might feel intrusive to you, but it's not necessarily actually intrusive, right. So we want to have we want to have a little bit more clarity on the on this topic and not just you know, jump to everything being toxic and abusive, because I'm, you know, as I mentioned, that comes up a lot. So
I'll chime in very quickly in terms of the daughter in law and the in laws, religiously and islamically. There's no obligation towards them, except towards the spouse or any asset that is shown, is exempt due to the spouse itself. So that's something to keep in mind. So any form of abuse that is thrown they are not meant to tolerate and they are allowed to separate
On that relationship with no blame upon them. Now in terms of the child themselves. And again, this is what the with the disclaimer that we have identified that it is truly toxic and truly, truly abuse in terms of the child themselves. I think one of the things that we're not educated about enough is what are the rights of the parents upon the child. And we have this perception that we all have unconditional obedience to our parents, when that's not the case, in the Koran, it is not mentioned at all, unconditional obedience except Wallace panadol, and his messengers of Allah who it was said that obedience to anyone other than those two is always conditional to what is good and to
what is best. And particularly with the parents themselves. If it's something that's exclusive to them something that they need for themselves, then yes, we should provide for them. But in terms of it's something related to our life, in terms of what education I pursue, what job I pursue, who I get married, then at the end of the day, we have to decide what is best for our dunya and our Acura and we can consult our parents and take it as advice. But there's no concept of them being able to dictate what happens in our lives. I think that's very important to understand from the Islamic paradigm, especially when the emotional abuse and manipulation comes into play. So that's what I'd
add to what's coming out as mentioned. You just have more going on. Those are some really great points. I'm not sure if this is addressed to you into your favorite question ever.
And to kind of just put this all in one package is just, you know, the definition of love what comes with that? What are some exceptions? It does it? Is it ever the wife's title, or is it just inherent?
Yeah, you know, I think it's really unfair to leave this towards the end of the discuss. This requires a lot more discussion.
Okay, I'm going to try to summarize this in into into several points. Point number one, understanding that leadership comes with great responsibility. And as Muslims, we should not be seeking leadership when of itself and this was the advice of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasallam. So this term directly ties into the concept of leadership itself, and to authority and understanding that we may think leadership and authority is a good thing, but in reality, understand that there's a greater accountability tied in to it. Number two is that Allah subhanho wa Taala has specifically mentioned in the Quran, original kawamori Allah Nisa that the men are a worm upon women, and how we
define Kawan is very, very important, I think it is so important to understand the context of what co one is, and what it refers to. And co one over here is referring to in terms of those that maintain and those that rectify, so co one consumer co emerges, stand up erect and to straighten, so that when something is going wrong, this person basically grabs the steering wheel and brings us back on track. So that's what the word co worm actually means. And this is what our last panelist other mentions in the iron. Now Allah subhanaw taala also explains, as to some of the reasoning behind it. And there's this concept of financial responsibility in terms of the man providing for
his family and taking care of his family. And perhaps that is why this authority was given to him. Then the third and last point is using power and authority as a mechanism of abuse and as a mechanism of shutting the other party down. And that regardless of who's doing it is completely incorrect and completely an Islamic. So when we want to dictate our way we keep regurgitating and I really dislike using this word when talking about a verse of the Quran, but that's what it becomes. We're abusing the Quran for our own personal privilege. That should never be the case. So that's like the the introduction to the topic. Now, what factors have to be present for a man to have this
title? It comes back to taqwa of Allah subhanaw taala and being just and doing their due diligence and and you know, knowledge of what it entails and accountability in front of Allah subhanaw taala either all of those factors have to be present before this title can actually be used. Are there examples when this rule of thumb is not given to the husband? Yes, if the for the husband is not competent, if the husband is abusive, if the husband is not leading through an Islamic lens or paradigm, then this will a role and this title is definitely taken away. And that's time you know, we need to get a third party involved to resolve that and figure out what the best course forward
The is one point I will highlight over here. And I think this is very important to understand our scholarly tradition. That emammal Cordoba, Ramallah when he talks about this verse, He completely ties it to financial responsibility, and insinuates the fact that if a woman becomes the sole breadwinner of the household, when she becomes the primary breadwinner of the household, then she has inherently taken this position of CO one. So understand that as as well. And also understand the room for negotiation premarital pre med pre contract, in terms of what you can include in your contract. That is also very, very important as well. Then the last point islamically, who has the
right to name the child or final right and husband and wife disagree? I would ask why are we getting to such a state that we're fighting over the child's name? That is such a point, if we have found a name, that is, from our tradition, many of his beloved from the beloved names, the names of companions, names of prophets, names of righteous women?
At that point, why are we fighting over it, I think one of the worst things that you can do is making it seem as if your in laws and this works both ways, have any say in this, and I think that should not be the case, it should come down to husband and wife. And they both agreed upon it themselves. And they shouldn't be a means of fighting and arguing that if we find a name that has a beautiful meaning behind it, and this is who we want our child to look up to and try to live up to their example, then there should be a compromise. And I'm unable to find anything that says specifically, it is the husband's right or the woman's right. And I believe this from the beauty of
the Sharia, that when things aren't mentioned specifically, it allows us to figure out those mechanisms for ourselves, which I believe is from the beauty of Australia, and Allah knows best, just invade.
These are the other questions that are also addressed to you she made the first one can a husband threaten his wife by divorce or second marriage to make her obedient?
I would say even if it was allowed, why are you digging your own grave? Right. So clearly, it's not allowed. Clearly, it's not allowed. And I don't think anyone thinks that it's allowed. But when things become you know, quote, unquote, toxic, we always look for ways to get the upper hand and to emotionally manipulate people, right. And that's when this ends up getting used.
But understand that I have not come across a single situation. And I, you know, I speak very hesitantly on behalf of other people as well. But even people that I've spoken to, I've never coursing across a single situation where you threatened with divorce or you struggling with a second marriage, that the wife becomes a big hit. Clearly their underlying issue was that needs to be resolved prior to this threat. And the threat actually makes things much, much worse. So no, it is not allowed islamically to threaten with divorce, or with second marriage.
And the next question regarding polygamy, although it's clear that it's generally permissible, what are some boundaries or considerations our community should understand regarding this topic. And I'm speaking about this purely from a North American context, that within Canada as a country, polygyny, which is, you know, favors the man, polygamy in general is not allowed. It is, you know, from the law of the land, that it is not allowed. So I would say as law abiding citizens, we cannot promote something that encourages breaking the law of the land. Now, if you're looking at this purely from a hypothetical fixed perspective, void of the reality that we live in, or this is, you know, living in
a, in another country where polygamy actually is allowed, I think the Phil COVID is very, very important. And I would start to the, the first aspect of it, in understanding the Hadith of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, were a man that does not do justice between his two wives, or more than them will show up on the Day of Judgment split into half. And I think that is where the discussion needs to begin. where, you know, a lot of times we may think that there's just pure pleasure and fun, but we forget about the reality of accountability and responsibility towards a line towards our spouse. And that's what the discussion needs to begin and then looking at what
equity and equality actually looks like, from Africa perspective. So again, I think that's beyond the scope of our discussion. Having said that, in North America for the moment, one of the lessons speak about Canada, in Canada, it's illegal you're not allowed to do it, and I do not believe it is something that should be entertained without scholarly consult. First
is Aquila Faden And next we're going to get into this is a few slides around this topic. So let's start off with Shaykh navaid. Can you please explain the commonly quoted hudy through
guardian angels cursing a woman only if she denies her husband? And then the follow up questions which are does this apply to a man who denies his wife? And what if they have good reason to do? Does that apply still? Excellent. So the context of the Hadith is a woman that denies her husband intimacy, without due cause and without to reason. So she is perfectly healthy, there's nothing wrong, there's no stress, no anxiety, nothing prior to that, that may, you know, take away the mood. So perhaps, you know, the husband may have been abusive, recently, and she doesn't want to at that time, right? So the context is that things are normal, and then she's denying him for no reason,
then that is when the curse of the angels and Allah subhanaw taala, is upon her. Now, let us understand the reasoning behind this is that Allah subhanaw taala has made intimacy halaal with the Select people that we have Nika with an intimacy outside of that is horrible. So particularly when we have been created with a bodily function, and emotion and emotional function as well, that there shouldn't be belittled, and we're unable to fulfill that, then that creates problems in turmoil in the marriage. And this becomes again, a tool of manipulation and emotional abuse, that is not allowed, that is not allowed. So that is the context of the Hadith. And I know often it gets quoted
around that, if you don't, if you're not intimate with me, the curse of the angels will be upon you. And again, these threads don't improve the situation, we want to look at a system and I has mentioned several times now, how did we get here? Why are we in this situation? And try to resolve those underlying issues? First and foremost, and then take it from there. And I believe empathy goes such a long way, both ways that the husband needs to look at, you know, what are possible reasons why my wife is saying no, and the wife looking at the husband side that you know, what are the consequences of me continuously saying no.
And Allah subhanaw taala knows best.
I would love to hear strim annihilus take on this as well, by the way.
So we're gonna jump into the next slide. And then I will present to manakin. Because first one is around, again, the same topic, but maybe the different take. So Menachem, can you please speak to low common misconception that women do not have as high of sexual drives as men, and how, you know, just even sexual drives and then maybe differing from couple to couple how this impacts the marriage.
So to share with you, you, you spoke to the point that I would have made for the previous one, and now, you know, don't continue from there in terms of
if we're getting to the point where either partner is feeling unfulfilled in this area, then, you know, we have to kind of ask what's going on underneath, right? And this actually this issue that that the question asks about women not having the same kind of sexual drive as men. Actually, I'm seeing more and more now that this is a situation where the wife says that she has a higher sexual drive than the husband. I'm seeing that more and more now.
You know, I don't know, I can't speak to any kind of I haven't, you know, read any research on what the reason for that might be I know, stereotypically, the notion has always been that the man has a higher sex drive. However,
this can impact a marriage because of that stereotype. You know, where people expect that the man is going to have a higher sex drive.
When we talk about intimacy between a husband and wife, this comes down to the court there has to be a conversation about Allah subhanaw taala data has made a husband and a wife, they have love for each other. And in that the conversation, you know, having erotic conversations having in sorry to be very explicit about this, but having very open conversations between the husband and the wife is highlighted. And it should be happening. If it's not happening. That is a question that we have to ask if there are issues happening in this area, we have to ask what has what is going on emotionally between these two, that that's causing them to not be able to have this conversation?
Thank you so much.
The only thing I would add to this is, again, being very specific in terms of what we're speaking about. sexual needs for men and women are quite a different and that has to be recognized, and the fulfillment of those needs, and the process behind them is also quite different. So to equate them into one, I think does an injustice to the topic. So the whole concept of, you know, quality versus quantity, I believe does play a factor over here as well, that needs to be addressed. Well, mahana Yes, absolutely. I agree to that.
Just like most Hayden shares movie this next question, I think you already touched on it. But what does this Nancy generally about the like sexual needs and satisfaction.
So I didn't get a chance to speak about it. But the general precursor that we gave is that any actor we assign any act of charity that you do towards your spouse is rewarded by Allah subhanaw taala. And this is one of those things that the Prophet salallahu alayhi wasallam mentioned specifically, that even the act of intimacy with one spouse, one is rewarded for. So I believe going out of their way to, to do this is something that is recommended to do that you're protecting not only our own chastity, but the chastity of our spouse is from the objectives of marriage is from the objectives of this law. And when either spouse is left unfulfilled and unsatisfied, then we're doing a
disservice to ourselves to our relationship, and to our Deen, because it opens the doorway for shavon, to plant that seed that, hey, maybe if you go somewhere else, you will be satisfied and you will have your needs met, when in reality, we know that's not the case. So this is something that should be taken seriously both ways. And understanding that the needs and satisfaction of both parties is imperative, to the best of our ability, inshallah.
And check me
a little bit. But for an example, that maybe you can both speak to is that you know, a wife do two years of emotional abuse from her husband, discontinue the intimacy with him. And then when the husband does seek help, and he wants to resume intimacy immediately, the wife, you know, is facing her own anxiety issues in his presence. So she doesn't want to seek a divorce. But she's not really quite there to engage in intimacy, what is she obliged to do? For sure, yeah, rolling,
seek counseling and therapy. And this is the reality of it like this is exactly I think what system and Kyle and I were trying to mention earlier on that, why are we waiting till you know, we're on the verge of the relationship completely breaking down to seek help. So these years of emotional abuse, prior to that happening, like even before that abuse started, is when we should have been seeking that help. Now, in this sort of situation, I believe it's important for the husband to be realistic, that the wife may have forgiven you, and you may have no crisis first heard of, but it doesn't mean that things are back to normal, right. So that has to be taken into consideration, as
well, when when discussing this topic. So I would say there is a point in time where you discuss Sharia rulings, and you need to know what is halal and haram. And this scenario is not one of them. The what needs to be done over here is a husband and wife going to therapy and going to counseling and figuring out together, how can we resolve these issues to get back to a normative state? Right. So I don't think the issue of Sharia rulings should be taken into consideration over here. But rather, we should be looking at how do we get back to normal if state
just qualified on a napkin? Would you like to add anything or just come on, I think she has not really addressed it beautifully. I mean, the only thought that and just to reiterate, what he already said is that safety has to be re established. intimacy is one of the most vulnerable acts that a husband and wife engage in with each other. And if you don't feel safe with a person, how can you engage with them in that way? How can you be that vulnerable with them. So it would make sense, it would probably be a dissociated state, for the person who has been abused to engage in intimacy, they wouldn't be able to be there mentally or physically.
Yeah, that's been the case, you both raise really important points. And this kind of continues on to the next slide, man I had this is for you, you know, kind of putting the first two questions together? How can one encourage vulnerability and trust in a relationship, especially when let's say that the spouse is trying to be vulnerable, but you're still getting hurt, as the partner receiving that vulnerability.
this takes, you know, that core concept of safety in the relationship, right, and it takes again, I feel like these these core principles, I keep kind of revolving every answer around them, because that's what it really, really comes down to, is to say, you know, what do I need in order to feel safe in this relationship? Right. And so being able to speak to those needs, being able to you know, because a lot of times we don't even we haven't taken the time to understand what our own needs are. Right? And if we don't know what our needs are, then we can't voice them. And so that might be something to get, you know, to maybe speak to a friend about, go to therapy for right to understand
what the at your core, what is it that you need, when you can voice those needs, and those needs are being met, then there's going to be more
capacity to be vulnerable. Right?
Trusting in a relationship, the other piece of that is that you have to be able to provide that safety for your partner. A lot of times we know we know what you know, okay, this is what I need, and this is what you're doing wrong. But we have to look the flip side to what are the cues that I'm giving off? You know, as soon as my partner, my students, my spouse starts to speak to me about what you know, hurts him or her? Do I just start going like this? Do I start giving them like dagger eyes? Right? Do I start like, pulling away? Do I start giving off just in my body language and my facial expressions? Or my tone of voice? Do I become short? Right? Do I feel so insecure that I
don't that I push away the conversation. So we have to pay attention to the cues that we give, and whether or not those cues are providing safety for our spouse? Right? Because that safety goes both ways. And so for if you're saying you know that your spouse is being vulnerable, but your feelings are getting hurt, then that might mean that you have to take a step back? And that's where she's No, wait, what he said about the ego hat. And we have to, we have to look at the ego, right? What is it here now? Is it the way that your partner is saying it? Is it the way that your spouse is saying it to you? Does it feel like it's a criticism and that you know, you're doing this wrong, then there
might be a way to say, hey, look, I really want to hear you out. But when you keep saying that I'm doing it wrong, it's hard for me to understand what you need from me. All I'm hearing is that I just keep doing everything wrong. So can we can you try to tell it to me in a different way? Right. So that could be a part of it. If your spouse is really trying to say it in a kind way and you feel hurt, then that's that's where you might need to do some work and say, you know, where's my insecurity? Or am I not able to hear you know that I have room for improvement? Is that? Is that my own hurdle that I have to get over? Right? So that safety goes both ways. And taking a little bit of
an objective look at what's going on in this interaction, right? If there's a fly on the wall, what does that fly? See, not just from what I can see my spouse doing, but from what I'm getting off as well?
Is that cool? Okay, and we do have one more slide if that's okay, can we take 510 minutes of your guys's time, so you can even
shift away? Did you have anything to say about this? A lot, too. But I don't want to open up that kind of work. But I think you did a great job just like look at it. Thank you so much.
And just for the last question, do you think we should be completely open or in a relationship? Or should some thoughts or feelings be filtered? This seems like this seems like one of those questions that's meant to get me in trouble.
because on one hand, we say you know, vulnerability and openness and sharing everything with your spouse and your spouse, knowing your innermost self, and that's all good and well. But there's also such a thing as tact, and there's also such a thing as compassion. And there's also such a thing as, you know, as a filter, right? We live in a time where it's all about, I'm going to speak my truth. And I'm going to say what I want to say and you know, and that's there's a place for that also. But we have to pay attention to when that aspect of I'm going to be who I am. And you know, that kind of like aggressive approach. It's not healthy. Right? And so there has to be a balance between that. So
yes, you do want to be open. And but this is not a black and white question. There's no black and white answer to this, right? I'm never going to encourage secrecy and stuff like that between spouses. However, you know, like, you know, we've, I've seen such situations where the breadwinner is like, you know, not telling their wife or husband, that things are really bad financially right now business wise, because they don't, and that I don't think that that's healthy, right. However, at the same time, there's a way to have these conversations. So I don't think it's it's not about whether you should or shouldn't. It's about how we do it. That's more important.
Such a great, thank you. Thank you, we'll head on. And for our last slide, this kind of addressed to both of you. Monahan, maybe if you can start us off, how can I support my partner? How can one support their partner who has mental health issues?
So, so another one of those questions that's really sticky.
Because the first thing I'll say to this is you cannot support someone who doesn't want to be supportive.
Okay, so if there's, you know, in a marriage, the person who has mental health issues has to take responsibility to be addressing them. Now, when one spouse is taking the, you know, the necessary steps to address the mental health issues, then you as their partner and spouse, you want to ask, cuz it really depends on what the mental health issues are, right? There's gonna be very different if someone has, you know, bipolar disorder versus someone has depression versus someone has anxiety right or versus
If someone has complex trauma from childhood abuse, right, these are all going to be different things how. So if you want to support your partner number one, they have to be actually taking steps to address the issues and they have to want the support. And if they want the support, there has to be very explicit conversation of how that support is going to look and how it's going to work, what support is needed by the partner.
Okay, in for the second one month ahead, and checkmate, if you'd like to add on, if a spouse is experiencing mental or emotional abuse from their partner, how should they handle it, especially if the abusive spouse is not willing to acknowledge their actions or seek out?
it, I'd really like you to shift away to this one.
Okay, so I'll just reread the question. If a source is expressing mental health or emotional abuse from their partner, how should they handle it, especially if the abusive spouse is not willing to acknowledge that their act, acknowledge their actions, or to seek help.
So the first thing I would say over here is that it's important to have our own support systems as well. So when someone is experiencing abuse from anyone, it's important to have that support system and know what their outlets are, and know what their options are in the situation. Number two, from the an Islamic understanding, there is this concept of da da, da, da, da, da, da, da, that we don't harm others, nor do we allow others to harm us. And oftentimes, we feel that because we're in a marital relationship, that we have to tolerate abuse, and that always want to be angry with me if I if I end up getting divorced or separated. And this has to be in its proper place that Allah
subhanaw taala gets angry when divorce is sought without cause if you're being physically abused, or very deeply emotionally abused, this is considered a just cause. And you are allowed to seek divorce after you've taken all the precautionary measures prior to that, in terms of advising one another in terms of getting an arbitrator involved in terms of getting family support and getting others to speak to them, and so on and so forth.
Number three, I think and by the way, these these numbers are in no particular order, just as the thoughts are coming to my head, seeking help from Allah subhana wa tada is something that can't be emphasized enough that you know, the stories of the prophets are mentioned in the Quran in terms of the abuse that they experienced from their people for a reason that even the best of Allah's creation, will experience abuse from those closest to them. Now, particularly when we're talking about spousal abuse, you can think of the story of a you by the sun, and you can think of the, the the story of Lota, you know, and you have these examples there, so that we find solace in them. And
that will always turn back to Allah subhana wa tada to seek help from a love first, and then seek help from the creation. After that, number four is finding out what support systems would external support systems are out there. So for example, if we're talking about eventually leading to physical abuse, the shelters that are there in the city, counseling that is available for them, and so on, and so forth. So this is, in point form some of the points that I would share, and Allah knows best, which is located and check the video, if you could just address this next question.
If one partner is suspicious and engaging spying, but does not provide any legitimate evidence or reasons for doing so, what should the accused partner do? I'll share a funny anecdote first. But there's actually this app that if you download, and someone tries to unlock your phone through the passcode, if he takes a picture of so I've seen that actually used several times. But the point being, again, we're you know, we're trying to address the symptom and not the underlying cause. Right. So the fact that your spouse is spying, is alluding to the fact that there is a breakdown in the trust of the relationship. And I think that's what we want to actually speak about that what is
causing this distrust? What can we do to build that trust back up? What can we do to
protect ourselves from the whispers of shade bond, that plants that those seeds of doubt and having those open and frank conversations. So one should never accuse spouses of doing anything wrong, nor should one accuse the spouse of spying, but rather have open and frank discussions. And again, I will highlight the fact the importance of reminding each other of the taqwa of Allah subhanaw taala and accountability of speaking the truth on the day of judgment as regular reminders, right and not just hearsay, you know, in in times of conflict. So, that's some advice that I would share there. Allahu Allah.
And Monahan for the last question in what situation is acceptable for a couple to seek help outside their relationship.
any situation necessary, there doesn't have to be a situation, but I'll say this though, you know, to this
question, I think that there's something in our theme about, you know, so that's so beautiful with spouses being garments for one another, right. And so I think that it's imperative to get help when necessary is made, but that helps should be sought in a wise manner. Right. So again, obviously, I'm going I'm going to be a proponent of getting therapy, and counseling or speaking to someone who is knowledgeable, who is trustworthy, but also has here's, here's a piece that's important that has emotional intelligence. Okay? Unfortunately, not everyone who is in a position of authority has that whether that's an elder within the family, or whether that's someone within the community, right?
that emotional intelligence is absolutely imperative in order to understand what are the underlying issues because of black and white stuff anybody could give you advice on, but not everyone's going to help you understand what's going on for each of you within the dynamics of the relationship. And so you know, with this understanding of spouses being garments for one another, there has to be a respect that is maintained between partners. And also, you know, speaking, seeking help in a situation that's confidential, that you know, that if you do speak openly about things, you know, that they're not going to be shared, or they're not going to that you're not going to, you know, be
judged for it in the sense that, you know, you don't want it to get out and you want to also present your partner or your spouse, you know, in a way that is honorable. Right. But seeking help. I think that's, that's from the Sunnah.
Is that okay.
I think the only side point that I would add to this, is that when we're seeking help, it should be from qualified people. Oftentimes, what ends up happening is we start to seek help from our friends, and from aunts and uncles who are not qualified. And you know, they're just they're venting and sharing their opinions. So then, in terms of the sanctity of the marriage that should be preserved, and should only be sought from qualified people.
So cool, hold on. Well, thank you both so much. That was our last slide. I do want to give you an opportunity. Is there any last or final comments that either of you would like to share?
Sr minnows? Would you like to go first? No, please. Sure. Is that okay, so I want to comment on one of the previous slides in terms of that filter, I think one of the things that I would emphasize and highlight in terms of having a filters, again, just because we're spouses, it doesn't mean that we're allowed to expose our sins to one another. So those are things that you should definitely keep to yourself. And if there's an addiction involved, please seek help and and get the appropriate help that you need. Also, in terms of a filter, it's very important to keep, you know the feelings of other people in mind as well. So sometimes you may be conveying the correct thing, but not in the
correct manner. So that filter in terms of how you articulate yourself, is very, very important as well. So sometimes we grow up in very sarcastic households. And we tend to keep that sarcasm with us as we grow up, and we end up losing that filter. So that should be kept in mind in terms of the future. My final words of advice,
are broken down into three. Number one, is continue to focus on the last panel down and your dean in the marriage, beginning and middle and continue to do so until you know, you enter into Jeanette together.
In terms of seeking help, you know, it's never too early, nor is it ever too late. But continue to build on that and seek help preventatively and also in times of need. And then last but not least, the third point is invest in the relationship like this, we invest in our education, we invest in our careers, invest in your relationship as well. And, you know, it's a I personally consider from a fifth standpoint, that any money that we spend on our marriage in investing in it, experiencing new things, increasing our literacy and education, this is all an act of Southern called that you will be rewarded for it shall not that In summary, three points is what I would conclude with and Allah
Subhana Allah knows best.
I could not have put it better myself. And I think that's a beautiful place to for us to pass on. Hello, Sadler. Hi Shay.
It is Nakula Hi, Ron, I really, really appreciate your time. And you know, we went a little bit over. But honestly, this has been so beneficial for myself, and I hope for many others. So we really think your time. We won't have any time for questions. I do want to thank everybody that joined us on the live also here on zoom. And charlo will be sending a recording to you or access to it. And then with that being said, you know a huge thank you again to our panelists. This is the contact information that they've graciously shared. So please direct, not too many questions or wait. But actually, I would just like to give the disclaimer that any counseling and therapy requests send us
your sister Emma Hill, and any Islamic or for questions can can be sent to me and she actually also my disclaimer is that I personally my caseload is completely full and I also cannot take clients for
Canada so I can try to help you find a Muslim therapist in Canada. But for counseling and therapy, I would find somebody locally, that's probably the best way to go.
So for that reason, we have a little bit of some resources to be quickly put together, Chawla will email this to all the registers as well. There's the honey Center, which are doing web therapy. So if anybody's interested, you can check that out. Psychology Today is this really large database and depending on where you're what city you're located in, as well as other things like language spoken, or religion followed, so you can filter your results in find a therapist that way. Also, system and I have talked a lot about Gottman,
very well known very well researched Institute about couples and marriage. So they have a blog, they also have therapists that you can look and find one that practices from their like kind of mode and from their perspective within Calvary inshallah so if you just go on their website, you can find that. After that, Can I just add something very quickly, on the previous slide, we just finished the Canadian Muslim health conference today. And they're actually working on a map of across Canada in terms of mental health resources and counseling resources in therapy resources across Canada. So if someone goes to Muslim mental health.ca, slash resources, they should be able to get an introduction
to it. It's not finished yet, but they've started that process. So that too, would be a great resource in terms of looking for counseling and therapy, particularly within the Muslim sphere. Amazing, just like Hello, hello, I will add that to the list. And then just shake me really, you really touched on this but you know, kind of like our transitional home here in Calgary, there's a few also across Canada known as me sa home. So that's a really great resource for someone who needs that. Also, a helpline for women, there's something called the C helpline which is for youth and teens, and then just generally access mental health which is like an Alberta wide resource. So
inshallah we'll be sending you these through email. And last but not least, you know, we would like this is it this wasn't a requirement or anything like that, but my daughter and I, you know, we collaborated with I see. So here in Calgary, they have to massage it and you know, they supported us so much in putting this program together. So if you've benefited from this, and for us to continue to you know, reach out to organizations like this and put these events together, then please do support them. You can just go onto the website, look at all of the programs they hold and consider donating some Chawla this can, you know, keep occurring. So that's all that we have for today. Once
again, I want to thank everybody for joining I want to thank our panelists, your volunteer time so appreciated mela for so much. Baraka in all that you do and all the efforts
that come okay and thank you so much. Hope everyone has an amazing evening. I go my library getting panic on hold. We have like a shadow day that that stuff will go to like Solomonic.