Naima B. Robert – Red Pill & the Appeal of Feminism
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This is one of the the the rebuttals
in part to the red pill praxeology and
the the frame. The red pill frame, I
think frame is probably the best way to
say it. It is a red pill frame.
It's red pill lens,
Is that it is
very much
an ethnos there is an ethnocentric bias, right?
It is based on Western society, on where
we are now in Western society.
The gynocentricism
in the system and, you know, what's happening
with men, what's happening with women, the the
the role of the family, and all of
that is very, very much Western. However,
I think one of the reasons why, unfortunately,
that lens is making sense to men and
women
abroad is because that western culture is being
exported
and and is being exported and is being
picked up, especially, I think, especially the feminist
angle.
And and maybe anti family as well through
the movies, through Netflix,
on social media, you know, and and movements
within those countries
to actually transform those countries to become more
modern, so called modern, more western. Feminist thing.
It's both another feminist thing. I can't speak
for women abroad or women entirely. I can
only speculate
as to what what will be the appeal
of feminism.
And the only thing I can think of
is
you women go to school. They are they
get education.
And the norm,
the assumption will be that you would want
to build them whatever you've learned upon. You
build them whatever you've you've you've you've you
spent years Yeah. At home in your craft.
And
you're telling me that I must be at
some advanced home and do nothing. I mean,
I've had women say to me is I
wanna be more than a mother, and I
and I and I and and I think
to myself, but what's more than that, though?
I mean Listen. Have those 10 kids. You
won't be talking about being more than no
mother. Okay? Yeah. That you will be your
couple will be full with those 10 children
being a mother to them. But it's it's
part of the education. It is part of
the education.
It's part of what we learn growing up,
like you said. And everyone's learning the same
thing now. So But, also, I think and
also add add to that, I think it's
a lack of appreciation
of what's what we have. Meaning,
if you had a family Mhmm. Loads of
siblings,
strong
eat is like a massive thing every single
year. Yeah. You don't recognize that as being
such an important thing because it's always been
there. You've never probably never lived a life
where you never had that. True. I mean,
I grew up in a very small family.
Me, my sister,
a few aunties here, lot of family either
in Jamaica or in America. It was small
amount. So Christmas was like, it was it
was no more than, like, 6 people, 7
people. Wow. Fast forward for 8 20 years.
Now we eat.
I kid you not. My my me, my
wife, my 8 kids,
and her siblings, and their wives, and their
kids. Our eve
exceeds easily 30
30 people
on immediate family, not even extended. Wow.
So
this
this I and I appreciate this. I understand
this because I grew up not having that.
Yeah. I can understand in east in Muslim
countries, maybe they don't reckon they think they
think they can adopt
they think they can adopt
western ideals whilst keeping what they have, not
realizing.
Those ideals break what they have. Yes.
Yes. Which is why I think that in
countries like Saudi, there's there's there's a growing
trend of
where women are Korean women, they're moving forward,
they haven't had kids, now they're willing to
be second wife's, but waive all their rights
as being a wife.
The question is, how did she get there?
How did you get to that whole discussion
of? Missy Alba? Forget the fact that missy
Alba are not allowed.
How did a woman get to the stage
where she's wavering her god given rights
that Allah has placed in the family in
order to balance the relationship with the family?
Why
how did she get here? Because she prioritized
something else. Yeah.
So I can I can see the appeal,
I guess, of feminism? And I guess and
that's what I said. That somebody was really
to recognize that the appeal of feminism,
I guess, is similar to the appeal of
red pill. There are factors in our environment
that need us down that road. There's not
down that road. Not only that, but I
would say as well, and this is something
that, you know, it's upon me to mention
because it is a conversation happening among sisters
at the moment. I think for some
for a generation of Muslims, maybe gen x,
maybe the older ones more so than the
millennials,
is that, you know, feminism
provided
a lens, right?
And if you, you know, you'll hear people
saying Islam is a feminist religion, for example,
right? What they don't they don't mean 3rd
wave feminism, they don't mean the actual actual
feminism, they just mean for women's rights. Because
a lot of people are under the impression
that feminism is just means
that you believe that women deserve equal rights
which is not the case. Feminism is a
lot more nuanced than that much much more
so. However,
in our, a lot of our communities,
the culture
that has developed over the generations,
I think has produced
other than what we saw in the Sira,
other than what we see the the Islamic
ideal. Right?
Depending on the country, depending on the situation,
you will see
cultural practices that do oppress women, that do
disregard women's rights blatantly. Yeah. And I think
in in in our time, some women felt
that feminism was the answer to that. You
know, a feminist re re reading of the
Quran and all of this kind of thing
or just a, you know, a feminist lens
as in I'm a woman. I won't be
ashamed of being a woman and all of
this kind of thing. Right?
I think
what's happened since,
obviously, 3rd wave feminism has taken,
has taken the the whole kind of world
in a different direction.
And that direction is an an anti male
direction. It always was
based on
disdain
to a certain extent.
Certainly sort of,
yeah, maybe disdain for men and maleness
and and masculinity
and and patriarchy and and all of the
things that men have done.
But now we're in a state where it
really is sort of anti male. And and
and the crazy thing is that while on
the one hand men are not allowed to
be masculine anymore because it's toxic and because
they they destroyed the world and they destroyed
everything and, you know, when it was under
them, the whole place was wrecked. Right? Yeah.
Yeah. But then the qualities that we are
encouraging in young girls
and in women are
hardcore
alpha male qualities, masculine qualities.
So which is it? Is masculinity
the standard that all women should be rising
to and have the freedom to pursue? Or
is masculinity dangerous? Is it something that is,
you know, that that should be curtailed? Or
is it that women get to be masculine
but men don't?
Mhmm. It's a tough time.
I mean,
I think
I mean, is there somebody there's so many
things that could that could that could be
pinpoint as the the the source of the
reason or or why things are the way
they are, but
I mean, if you if you started with
the feminist,
narrative
and how they frame the narrative at the
beginning,
That was in reaction to how Christians
treated women and how they treated and how
they they bet they acted towards women.
And, also,
I guess, at some point, at some some
part of the history,
this materialism
and utilitarian view
of of each other came came into view
in a sense that,
why again, back to the issue of of
what you what what's what you're trying to
achieve in a in a marriage. What are
you trying to build in a marriage?
If it's all about just yourself and what
I want,
and I'm only interested in him for one
thing, and he's not interested in me in
one thing. You you end up sowing the
seeds of contempt
for the other. And this is where 1
brand made a very good point, very good
channel. Good call 1 one is basically a
channel focused on men, teaching men how to
be leaders in their home. You mentioned about,
basically,
one of the roots
of feminism and also red pill
is Iblis.
But not just Iblis, like how we say
Iblis is a source of all evil and
shirk could confirm. But but but, specifically,
Iblis' doctrine, meaning
we all know Iblis
on his,
and these people come to him. What have
you done? I did this. Ain't done nothing.
What have you done? I done this. We
ain't done nothing. What have you done? I
split between husband and wife, and he embraces
him as you've done a great thing. You've
done a great thing.
So any ideology this is this is what
I think I saw it with any ideology
that seeks to
build barriers between a man and a woman.
Mhmm. And and so does he the contempt
and hatred between man and woman
and suspicion.
These are
traits. Mhmm.
Set in stone from these people, these who
seek to
break between the 2. So any ideology
any ideology, if you go, like, a feminist,
they say that men are. Men are like
that. And and and and any kind of
negative view towards the man, that's already sowing
the seeds of contempt. Yeah. For sure. And
likewise,
women are hypergamous. All they want is money,
all they want is that they they get
child. And then the again, sowing the seeds
of contempt and hatred. Once you sow those
seeds,
even though your is still there, as in
you still wanna have a relationship with the
opposite and you still wanna the the.
Because the seed of contempt is already there.
Yeah. You've already sabotaged
that that that relationship. Suparna. You can't really
build anything because the seed of hatred and
contempt is is already there.
And that's one of the biggest issues why,
why I feel,
Redpill failed to recognize. They they they say,
oh, this is to prevent divorce, or this
is to help people to stay together by
everyone having their roles. But you don't you
don't realize that you're framing the other in
such a, in such a way that it's
it's almost impossible to maintain any level of
of real love or or deep love. If
you just view your wife as as someone
who's gonna monkey branch to someone else, or
it's gonna leave you so you have no
more money or whatnot. That stuff is dangerous.
That stuff is really dangerous. And the the
thing is,
yeah, I'm at I just just want to
jump in here because the thing is that
that monkey branch idea,
and the gigachad and all that kind of
thing, because obviously these ideas are spreading. I
actually had a conversation with a young man
in Zimbabwe
who is 17. He's at school. He goes
to a boys school and he's ranting and
raving about
women and how women, you know, basically, you
know, the hypergamy about how is the point
of becoming a beta male provider so she
can monkey branch off to the next alpha
and I was like,
what are you talking about? This is Zimbabwe.
How are they like? What are you? You
know, like, what are you saying? This is
not a reality in your context.
Maybe it happens for some people out there
in that world, but that's not your world.
That's that's not
that's not your reality.
And that frame
is is is going to it's like his
his his mom said to me. She said,
I'm worried about what he's consuming online because
the things that he's saying, firstly, as a
woman in this cultural context, I don't know
what he's talking about. Who who are these
people? You know, who are these women that
he's referring to?
It would be a generational thing as well
because, obviously, she's older. She doesn't know what
the young girls are like. But he said
to me, the girls in our town
talk like those girls on the videos. On
those girls on TikTok, those girls on the
that's exactly what they say. Oh, I need
to I need to secure the bag. You
know? I don't want anybody who has less
than the the I deserve a what what
and all of that. So
it's it's it's it's seeping out in the
worst way. It is a reactionary
principle. I agree with you.
But I I I don't I don't I
don't I don't say that it's reactionary,
unjustified. I mean, there are some No. It's
justified in reaction, but it's still a reaction.
But it's it's it it is it's really
happening, isn't it? I think that's the the
problem. It's not some made up. It's not
a bogeyman.
I think the dynamics between men and women
in the world out there are a reality
and this
ideology or praxeology or just lens has come
as a reaction
to what's happening on the ground. But then
go ahead.
No one?
I I I wonder because I've watched some
of Kawamom's videos and I've also heard, you
know, brothers who kind of are, shall we
say post red pill not anti but post
red pill which I think is an important
place to be I think as a muslim
yeah
one of the brothers on the the 3
Muslims said that. He said, look, I came
in through red pill.
It woke me up out of a lot
of mind conditioning.
It woke me up, out to a lot
of realities about the world that I live
in as opposed to the fairy tale that
I believed before. So I I feel I
needed that,
But then Islam
took me a step further
and Islam took me into a space where
I could now be comfortable in my masculinity
without hating
women. I could be comfortable in my role
as provider without feeling like a beta male
provider. You know what I mean? It allowed
me to level set, which I thought was
very Yeah. Very insightful.