Naima B. Robert – Muslims, Marriage and Lots and Lots of Children! TMC E.8 Mu’awiyyah Tucker
AI: Summary ©
The speakers discuss the importance of finding a better marriage and finding a good character for a healthy and productive relationship. They stress the importance of personal growth, finding a better mother, finding a good career, and building a successful home. They also discuss the importance of finding a marriage that is both healthy and productive, and how it can be a choice between good and bad character. The speakers stress the importance of personal growth and finding a good partner, and provide examples of how women can be a victim of bad behavior. They also touch on the concept of "hasn't been met" and how it can lead to a "hasn't been met" situation.
AI: Summary ©
Brother,
welcome. Welcome to the show. Thanks for having
me. Thanks.
It's a pleasure to be here by the
end of the show. Yeah. It's good to
be able to talk inshallah. I'm really excited,
about addressing what we're going to address today
because
you
did a cheeky little Instagram survey, didn't you?
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Addressing
what sisters are looking for, what brothers are
looking for. And let's call it what it
is, what men want and what women want.
Okay? Yeah. So tell us a little bit
about why you decided to embark on that
survey.
Yeah. So interesting.
Ironically,
it was
partly due to some of the content I
was I was,
consuming at the time, specifically as it relates
to,
what some people call today as, like, Red
Pill or MagTel or whatnot. And, also, I
guess I guess, social,
discussions have been in in the in the
space.
And, also, it was a byproduct
from,
when we did a matrimonial,
program. So in the past, we they have
done a matrimonial program where we try to
match people up, and we try to take
a different approach in terms of how to
get people married. So we the first thing
we tried to do uniquely was to,
bypass the whole
profile thing. So rather than people putting profiles
and having a long list of things, what
they do and what don't do, what they
like or don't like, We wanted a simple
profile, simple simple as in hardly anything on
it, and we want people to actually engage
with each other directly. So the idea was
put aside all of the things that you
that you think you want and just talk
to the person.
Because often we found that what people have,
basically, they they put aside
a lot of options
Yeah.
Due to
a vision of what they want, whereby most
of what they want is not really that
important
in the in the grand scheme of things.
And even not important to them as in
they think it's important,
but isn't really important to them. Yeah.
So it was all these things put together,
and I figured, you know what? Rather than
people say
or rather than me just consuming content and
and hear what other people say people want,
let me just ask the people what they
want.
And that was kind of what what I
did in the the Instagram post. So I
asked to see the questions.
I got the answers,
and then I tried to demonstrate or show
from the answers,
my point I was trying to make at
the time. So that was that was the
reason behind the the Instagram post.
And then I made it into, like, a
little continuous story thing.
And we'll definitely link to your Instagram below
this video, guys. You need to check out
these answers. It's very, very eye opening.
And I think your approach
to allowing people to discover each other, I
guess,
without the sort of the pre qualifiers.
Must have been a very interesting journey for
for people and for you. What did you
observe? Did were people did they perform better
under those circumstances?
Was it was it hard for people to
kind of put aside the list and just
engage with the person? What what how did
that go?
In in the marriage processing, you mean? Yeah.
Yeah. So, I mean I mean, just to
give you one example, the very first event
we held, this is a few years back
now,
there was one brother who found a sister
at the event
and was very happy. He was happy. She
was happy. Fabulous was happy. Everyone was happy.
But then he approached me and said, brother,
I have a concern. So what's the
issue? So the every she ticks every box,
but I have one issue. I said, what's
the issue?
She's a bit short.
I said, bro, is that is it is
it is it really that important?
Said, no. It's not in it's just it's
just I mean, I'm I'm a lot smarter
than It's just a thing in it.
Yeah. So I said, okay. Well, look, bruv.
To be honest Oh. In the grand scheme
of things, the
if if you had children with her and
she was looking after your children, would do
you reckon she'd be a good mother? Yeah.
Do you reckon are you happy with her,
Dean? Yeah. Do you reckon that you can
actually get along,
on a personal level? Yeah. But what more
do you want, brother?
I said Wow. Yeah. I said I said,
realistically,
over a a in a year or 2,
would this issue be a issue for you
anymore? And do do you really think of
an issue in a year or 2 time?
And you thought by 4 probably not. As
a problem, so you're literally turning down what's
in your hand for the potential of finding
someone that is just a tad bit taller.
And so he took that advice. Took it.
Took the advice and got married. And Farazanullah
is still married to this day.
That that that what you just mentioned there,
turning away something that's in your hand
for the hope that there's a potential that
is just a bit more perfect than this
one. I think it's, it's, we're all suffering
from that as a culture, it feels. It's
like there's always something better to be had.
There's there's someone better. There's a better job.
There's a better career. There's a better house.
There's just better somewhere, and we all believe
that we deserve
better as well.
The deserve part, maybe. Maybe. Because I I
don't necessarily it's not not everyone has that
Not everyone. View about themselves. Yeah. Yeah. But
I do think
I do think people think they have enough
time.
Mhmm.
As in they they think, okay. As in
we already have this idea that people get
married
maybe 25, maybe 30. We already have that
that that idea as in that's a normal
age or an okay age to get married
whereas, realistically,
25 is too late in my view. Wow.
So if you if you view that look.
Marriage is not not necessarily something you should
delay if that's what you wanna do. Get
married. Yeah. So if you can do it,
then do it.
You're better off,
in the long run on on the on
balance of probability.
Then if you have the urgency in yourself,
then you you you would overlook these things.
Like, people tend to do once they hit
their hit their thirties. When they hit their
thirties,
then they overlook things.
And another sad case not sad case. Another
another case we had in that thing,
there's one sister who came.
She was about 40
something. I don't know. It was 40 something.
46, I think. I'm not sure if it
was 46.
And she said, oh, bravo. I'm looking for
us. And I said, okay. Cool. Let's let's
what what what exactly are you looking for?
He said, anyone. Just I said I said,
yeah. I know, Bob. Do you have any
preferences? No. Just just a man. You know?
Just anyone.
And,
and I I tried I tried to mess
it up. Would you prefer a particular age?
But she said, look. Do Do you have
anyone available? Stop digging. Okay? Just give me
that man. Give me something. And
you look at the contrast,
if you would just ask I don't know
I don't know her
individual reason for it, but my I don't
can speculate
that she's now 46.
What possibly does she is she gonna give
a list of things that she wants and
doesn't want? Mhmm.
So, I mean, if everyone took that approach
and look,
What do you really want from my marriage
other than just someone to love and and
cherish? That's it, really. And the question is,
can you achieve that with the person who's
shorter than you or Yeah. Or not as
educated in you and expand that? I mean,
can you achieve that level of happiness
without these blocks have been ticked? If the
answer is yes, then are those boxes really
important?
True.
Yeah. So that was kind of what I
was trying to get
at, with some of the questions I was
asking. Because people have all these list of
thing that they want,
that aren't really that important in the in
the grand scheme of things,
which is I kinda ironic because we we
we when you look at the what's becoming
popular now with the the whole red pill
ideology thing,
This kinda almost is the opposite because the
some of the ideologies of red pill kind
of dictate that there are things we want
that are almost uncompromisable,
whereas I don't think that's true either. I
don't think there are things
that are uncompromisable beyond Dean. I mean, Dean,
obviously, Dean is Dean, and that and that's
that's a religious thing.
I would say I would say Dean, and
I I have to say I would say
character.
Obviously, the Hadith mentioned Dean and character,
but Yeah.
That's the minimum.
Right? Somebody who has decent Dean
and is a is a good person, Yani.
Because I mean,
you know what I mean? Like,
I mean, I'm I'm trying to, like, boil
it down to really the basics.
Someone who will be kind to you. Just
be nice to you. Well, I mean, the
thing is the the idea of a good
character,
I would even contest that, to be honest.
And the reason why I say that
yeah. Because
a person can be could have a character
which is defined socially as not being good
character,
but it could be a character that fits
that person the other person. I mean, that's
what fits. Okay. But that's a personality. When
I say good character, I mean, like
okay opposite is a bad character. Dishonest,
selfish,
you know, kind of, you know, mean, cruel,
violent, you know, stingy, those types of bad
characteristics if you look at the opposite.
Yeah. That's what that's what I'm saying. Not
so much personality, but you still don't think
that character is is a I mean is
a nonnegotiable.
Let me give you example.
And then, again, we have to we have
to refer back to the the sunnah. And
this is the thing I think that a
lot of our pillars don't don't don't acknowledge
or recognize.
When it comes to marriage interaction between people,
this is not like,
science or medicine or not in a sense
that the messenger of Allah and
the companions experience every possible scenario Yeah. That
can occur. Marriage, divorce,
hola, difficulties,
children, loss
of loved ones. There's everything in life they've
experienced. So to to say that we don't
have examples that we can draw from Mhmm.
In that,
does it the it it it doesn't sound
it makes sense. So let's look at example
of you you mentioned it was stingy, as
in you can't have a husband that's stingy.
Well,
that happened. Abosafian,
he was described as being stingy by his
wife, but it never resulted in a divorce.
And we can't even say that they were
she was necessarily unhappy. She was she was
unhappy with him being stingy. Of course. But
she was still his wife, and they still
got along.
So Obviously, there's something there. Stingy. Mhmm. A
person could be stingy.
A person could be a bit mean. A
person could be a bit rough, but that
could still work.
Guys, this is, this is food for thought
for everybody.
Okay. Okay. Keep keep talking.
Me, the way I see it for marriage
and, again, I'm I'm biased because, obviously, we're
all biased in our own way in terms
of, our own experiences. But the way I
see marriage is
practically anyone can get along with anyone else
if they try.
And I said and I said practically, there
are certain things
that, that I would say,
would break it. I mean, someone's a serial
killer, obviously. I mean, there there are certain
things there are certain bad music. You know?
Serial killers have fans all around the world
and many, many wives that look after them
in prison. So that's not even a deal
breaker. So what's the deal breaker then? What
what is what is something that is like
if you guys don't have this, I don't
know. This this yeah. I mean,
there's nothing there. I mean,
I I would say it's down to a
personal
choices and personal decision. Meaning,
a person would have to
look at
their options, look at what they have themselves,
look at what they want, and make a
decision
on that. I don't think there's there's a
there's necessarily
a person who's unmarryable.
I mean, that's that's that's what it come
down to. Is there someone who is unmarryable
for everyone? I don't think that's the case.
I mean, that's that's that's basically the the
question we have to ask ourselves. Is there
is there someone who is just so bad,
he's unmarriable to everyone? And I think that's
not necessarily the case. I mean, let me
give you example. Let me give you example
of how traits can be really weird.
Someone who is always punctual, always on time,
always gets things done when they says it,
always you know? You would expect that to
be that a great thing, isn't it? You
know? Of course, that's just great. But for
some people, that's like, I can't live like
that. No. I can't I can't live.
It's a no from me.
But but there you go. So there are
certain circumstances
and certain character traits that in one scenario
is great 100%. And another scenario is terrible.
Let's flip it on the other side. Someone
who's super relaxed is all isn't is hardly
ever on time. Whenever you tell them to
do something, they're like, come on. Let's go.
Okay. I'll be be there. I'll be there.
I'll be there. Chill, man. Why are you
rushing me? You're rushing me. Yeah. Again, you
might think that's just that's so annoying that
this person's always late. It's he never takes
things seriously.
But, again, that's actually a very good trait
in some some circumstances because that person people
as well that fits with the way that
they would like to do things. So, yeah,
just those two examples that you gave, I
probably would go for the second and the
first because, yeah, because of myself and how
I do things. So But the irony of
that even is that sometimes we can imagine,
you know, a laid back person would fit
a laid back person.
But maybe a laid back person will actually
fit a person who is punctual because they'll
balance out or it it it depends. It's
complex. About how much are you willing to
sacrifice to make this thing work.
So how much are you prepared to sacrifice
to make it work?
Do you think so that's 1.
What about the initial the the
I want to say compatibility, but that's not
what I mean. I mean the click
as in
we can kick it. We get along.
Mhmm. How how how because I'm I'm thinking
of these bad character traits that you're referring
to.
Stingy,
over punk overly punctual, punctilious,
you know, too laid back, etcetera.
If you get along with that person
and you have love for them, it's just
one of those things you have to deal
with, isn't it? It's not a deal breaker.
It's just that's just how he is. That's
just how she is. After after the fact,
I mean, once you're married to the person,
you know, it is what it is. That's
just how he is. That's just how she
is. But what about the getting along? Do
you think that that's something that people should
maybe pay attention to, or do you think
that that also can is negotiable and can
be worked out?
I I think
I think it's I think people need to
to to really sit down and ask themselves
what do they want from a marriage. Because
I think what people want from a marriage
isn't necessarily
what they need to get from a marriage.
Meaning Oh.
If they want from a marriage, they're best
friend.
That's not required.
Do do you get what I'm saying? As
in you I mean, how else do how
else does mankind,
got married to the strangers
for for centuries?
And then after the fact, they've developed love
and affection and whatnot.
They have you have your your your mates
and your best friend and whatnot. You there
are other things that you can do.
If you want someone to be your best
mate, you can have you can have friends.
It doesn't have to be your wife.
There are many but but oh, for example,
this is a classic one. Lots a lot
of people, they get they they struggle with
this one.
They want perfection in their spouse as in
if they're not like this and not like
that. They're messy.
They're they're this, they're that. They can't cope
properly. And then some people say,
okay.
I mean, is that is that is that
all they are, That one thing? Is that
is the whole in the whole in
that they are. Is that one thing? And
I find I think if if everyone really
ask themselves, especially those who are either in
a marriage or have been married, if they
ask themselves generally,
can you
so, is this issue made worse by yourself?
Mhmm. No. I admit it. Yeah. I I
ponder on it. I dawn upon it. I
I mention it over and over again. I
make it the issue. Yeah.
But sometimes you can say, you know what?
As as the hadith said, if you find
something that's tasteful in your wife, maybe you
might find something else that pleases you. Mhmm.
IE, don't focus on what you don't like.
Elevate that which you do like. And maybe
you might appreciate that thing more. Just overlook.
I mean, like I said,
if it's for example, I've I've had people
say, oh, this person is so messy.
Okay. But really? End the whole marriage? You
know, split kids from their parents over, you
know,
clothes here and there. I mean, you can't
you can't work out something on that regards.
Think about it. Someone being messy is a
thing.
Yeah. Divorce is another thing.
Which is which do they are they really
the same? Are they on the same level?
Mhmm. That's basically you know what I'm I'm
just what I'm saying. I'm I'm saying you
have children,
you built something,
but this person picks their nose and flicks
it or whatever the case whatever whatever the
case may be. They burp aloud or they
they they're obnoxious. They're loud. They laugh so
loud, and it it annoys me and that
kind of stuff. Right. I mean, really? I
mean,
you have children.
We all understand children, the need for a
child to have both mommy and dad in
the house, and you're trying remember, you're trying
to build something.
Yeah. Realistically,
are you gonna destroy this house you're trying
to build for this 1 or 2 thing?
I mean I mean, the thing is we
don't we don't even apply that same logic
to our lives. Let me give example.
You have a business.
You're trying to build a business. You have
employees.
Are you telling me every employee is best
character,
or they're good at what they do for
your business?
If they're good at what they do for
your business, but yet they are not good
in other things, you can overload other things
because, ultimately, you're trying to build a successful
business. Right. And marriage is about building a
successful home.
Mhmm.
So, for example, the brothers out there who
are listening who who might might be really
irritated with their with their wives, for example,
I mean, ask yourself a good question.
As irritated as she is, is she a
good mother? Are you happy to leave your
children in that custody when you're out of
work?
And are you do you trust that she's
gonna look after them and raise them well?
If the answer is yes,
what more do you want?
Realistically, I mean, you're trying to build a
home. You're trying to build something successful. You're
telling me you can't overlook 1 or 2
small things where, ultimately, the whole home is
being built, being established?
It's the individualism for me.
I think it's it's everybody wants to be
happy
and to be happy individually.
You know, like their best life and their
best self. And if I'm not happy,
it's a problem. You know? Like Well, there's
a there's a book I'm sure you must
have heard about. I'm sure you must have
heard this book, empowered life by Luadora.
There's a chapter in there, which I thought
was probably more significant chapters of the whole
book.
Basically, if you want if someone wants to
ask what's the book summarizing, it's summarizing how,
I would say, how a woman
can successfully
manipulate a husband in her favor. That's how
I would do it. And and there's nothing
wrong in saying that. I mean, that's that's
from Laura Doyle. Yes. I read her surrenders.
It's Panalaz. Actually, it's so interesting.
I, I was recommended her book Surrendered Wife
by Alia Umrayan from Honest Tea Talk and
she said I have read this. It is
great. I said look even that title is
triggering okay? Get it out of my face.
Surrendered what?
But she said no no no give it
a chance. Give it a chance.
I'll call myself a recovering feminist or a
recovered feminist because I know how deep the
programming goes. But surrendered wife for me, no.
I wasn't having that. Anyway I that's probably
why they the the second book was called
empowered wife. Maybe It probably was. Just to
bring in more of the market. But, the
point is I read the book
and it was like, this makes sense. And
not only does this make sense,
it will it will work for me because
Mhmm. You know, the reality is
I'm a traditional wife.
Mhmm. I love it. Being kept wife is
lit. Okay? That is just the being kept
woman is wonderful.
And
so if I can,
you know, as she says, surrender
I think her the way that she put
it was,
yes. I think it's really about relaxing into
your femininity, to be honest, and being prepared
to receive. Whereas a lot of women
bring a lot of masculinity
to relationships, to their marriages, and they want
to control and they want to make sure
things happen a certain way, their way, dominate
the situation, get their way, which is all
very masculine energy. Right? And I think that
the way she was saying it was just,
look,
give him space to lead because if you
don't give him space,
you're just going to end up pushing him
away. And then you're going to say, where's
the leader? Why are you not showing up?
Why am I doing everything? John
Gray talked about that in
Men are from Mars or Men are from
Venus. He talked about
when a woman
tries to micromanage
her husband
and ensure and make sure that like when
he looks after the children and
you're like, you have to give them this
at this time and you have to feed
them that and don't give them any this
and make sure you change it.
And if he doesn't do it your way,
you're like, forget it then. I'll do it
myself. And then you don't ask him anymore.
Yes. Undermining.
Right. Exactly.
And by time,
he's doing hardly anything because you've taken back
all those roles because you're like, forget it.
I'll do it.
And now of course you're overburdened, you're stressed,
you're resentful,
but you created that situation because you need
to control that situation. I don't know. What
are your thoughts on that? I mean, the
I I would I would say that the
the the main message of of her book
I read the first one, which is the
one you mentioned. I read the empowered wife
one. Is is effectively just saying,
how do you how do you achieve your
goals? Yeah.
You could try to achieve your goals in
a very masculine dominant way,
but, basically, that's not how men work. Mhmm.
And if you try to if you try
to have 2 men in the same house,
you're gonna clash. Yeah. And then when you
do clash, you complain, why is my marriage
not happening? What you could do is try
a different approach to get what you want.
And that's basically it. It's just space to
basically play in the game. So it's like,
for example, government.
You could protest
outside their house and make noise and embarrass
them and make comedy comical jokes about them
on TV and belittle them, or you can
approach them privately.
You know, speak to them,
put your your case forward in a manner
which at least give them the opportunity to
make them feel that they have a choice.
It's it's just 2 approaches that achieve the
same thing. Yeah. But one may be more
effective than than the other. Mhmm.
So so so I don't I don't think
she's she's she actually she's actually saying don't
do this, that, and the other. She's just
saying do what you wanna do, but in
a more effective way. Now that aims that
even just today, actually, one one brother,
called me because I'm trying to help him
and his wife sort their situation out. And
is working.
But,
I just basically told both him and his
wife, you both are maniacs, I said to
them, because
you you you're basically
at each other's throats Oh. Trying to command
the armor to do x, y, and zed,
but realizing that it's not effective.
You're doing it one way, and it's not
working. She's doing it her way, and it's
not working. So why don't you just try
another way? Yeah. And, they've I managed to
get them to try another way. And then
called me today saying, it's been a week
and a half, and it's working.
And he's like, but this but that's it,
bro. All this but you're doing, you're trying
to go back to your old ways. Don't
do it that way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Just work with me. Stick to the plan.
Do I think I mentioned today as example.
I mentioned today that,
but why is why is isn't she doing
this? Why isn't she doing that? I'm telling
you,
if you
fulfill this role
and and and succeed at making her happy,
being a wife,
I can almost guarantee she would do what
you want her to do while you're asking
because she wants to make you happy. Yeah.
She will find ways and see you how
you become how what makes you happy, and
she will do that to make you happy.
Yeah. But as long as you're at each
other's throats, she's not gonna do that. No.
Even if you tell her to do it.
So,
so, basically, I said something some more something
as smaller, is that easy? And he they
said to me
actually, what he said is quite true because
since we had that meeting,
every day when he come back from work,
she makes some tea, and he let she
knows it. You know? And she he loves
tea.
I said, great. That's the first step. Now
your step is
gratitude.
If she's making you tea, you need to
exaggerate your happiness. Oh, yeah. Because you're now
reinforcing
Yeah. That's that's exactly what I said. I
said exaggerate
your happiness even if you're not that happy,
even tea is watery and or milky on
the other eye like it, make her feel
happy
for doing it because then she'll say, oh,
great. Is what makes me happy, and she'll
do it further. So you can achieve what
you want to achieve
without saying, I want tea.
So that's basically this is why I'm saying
that when it comes to marriage, back to
the our initial discussion about marriage,
people go into marriage
with wrong expectations, and it's not their fault.
And I would say to you, it's not
their fault. Why is it not their fault?
Why is it not their fault? Because they've
never been married before.
I mean, you're expected to perform a role
you've never done before.
So both of you,
generally speaking, are figuring it out as you
go along.
And that means
it's gonna take a very long time before
you've you've got a working plan.
You know what I like about that approach?
It's a it's a humble approach. You
know? It's going to be okay.
We're going to work at it.
We're probably going to mess up along the
way. I'm gonna mess up for sure. You're
probably gonna mess up. But we're committing to
making this work,
which is
so different, I think, from, like you said,
the expectation.
And I think,
you know, I I think we have so
many layers of
ideas about what a relationship should look like.
And I I say
relationship on purpose because,
you know, and any, you know, viewers disagree
with me, you know, you can comment below,
call me out. But I think that what
we see all the time around us
in popular media,
in social media, popular culture, films, songs, everywhere
is relationships.
It's not marriage. Now you might say, Yeah,
but a marriage is a relationship, isn't it?
But I would say actually
a marriage is a lot bigger than a
relationship.
And you could have if
move halal and haram to the side. You
could have a ghiel and you you and
that girl you're like that. Your relationship is
great. It's fun. It's cool. You enjoy each
other's company. Everything's nice.
But the marriage part now
are you on the same page?
Does she want kids? Do you want kids?
Your families hate each other. You don't want
to live together. She doesn't want to live
here.
Now all the other elements
mean that a marriage would not work. So
while the relationship could be great, you guys
could kick it. A marriage may not work.
And so Because in marriage, you're you're building
and the relationship will be not necessarily building.
This is it. Relationship is is fun times.
Relationship is enjoyment. Yes. It's just enjoyment. Exactly.
But I think that
and, again, I I I say I say
this and open to for anybody to to
to to call me out,
but I think that what we are
bred for
is relationships
and not marriage. Because I know for a,
you know, a sister or a woman who
wants to get married, what's she looking for?
She's looking for a man to love her,
you know, to appreciate her. She wants the
romance. She wants to have the, you know,
the companionship and the relationship
aspect. She's very clear about that. She wants
to be in love. She wants to be
loved. The relationship is so crystal clear And
in her head, in order to have that
relationship, I need this, this, this, this, this,
this. These are these things that I need.
Right? Mhmm. Mhmm. But the actual
marriage
and the work of marriage and even the
ultimate purpose of marriage,
we are not bred on that. And it's
hardly I think it's hardly ever spoken about.
You know? Certainly, it's not what people love
to make poetry about. You know? The the
work of marriage,
apparently, it's not there. So Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, like, the
it's,
basically, fixing things like duty,
possibilities.
These are
basically, I I I think, like like you
said, the the the the institutional marriage, I'll
and I'll only limit this to Muslims in
the west. Because I'm sure Muslims in Muslim
countries still have their culture that if they
fall back on. But at least Muslims in
western country who countries who are born and
raised and watch the same programs and TV
shows or not, are looking for what they
see on TV.
It's a very individualist,
selfish approach,
and you can see that manifest in the
way they
treat the children in that relationship. So I'll
give you example.
The cut the classic case, which is not
uncommon. I don't have to say I heard
or I speak. We all know of marriage
break apart, and then now the husband's not
not see his kid because why is not
a lamb city kid and that kind of
stuff. Now if you just sit back and
just ask some question, put aside why their
marriage broke apart and what kind of stuff.
The question is you have children.
This child is a combination of 2 people,
husband and wife, mom and dad.
There are responsibilities that are there that supersedes
the individual
mom and dad.
Possibilities that have to be fulfilled irregardless
of mom and dad's wishes.
Mhmm. But because we see so often
this disregard, it shows that they only care
about themself.
Mhmm. I mean, one brother told me, and
this is quite sad actually when I heard
about my days, that,
one parent
was so adamant not to give the
the child access to the file or give
the father access to the child. As she
told the child the the father is dead.
The father was shocked to find out when
he met his son. His son was surprised
he was still alive because he was told
he was dead.
Wow.
Now, again,
someone may say, yo. But maybe he was
this and maybe he was that. Again, all
this is irrelevant.
How he and her was to themselves is
one discussion.
Yeah. And they got divorced, and that's been
dealt with. Yeah. But now we have him
and his child. That's a different discussion.
Mhmm.
But this is my point. The point is
that we view
this responsibility
as something
for me, this is what I want. Who
cares what you want at the end of
the day?
Yeah.
And I I know those I don't I
don't I don't say this to belittle someone.
I mean, obviously, your feelings aren't important, just
like his feelings aren't important.
But do they supersede all other responsibilities?
No. No. No. No. It's it's, it's it's
literally what I'm seeing is even in the
non Muslim space,
people asking again, hold on a minute, what
was the purpose of marriage again?
What was that marriage thing all about? Because
what's going on now? This ain't it. You
know? Like, this this is this this ain't
it. You know? If marriages are going to
be based on, like you said,
individual fulfillment,
feelings,
emotions,
how how much you're vibing in that period
of life or whatever,
they are necessarily going to be short lived.
They they're they're going to be breaking up
and children at the end of the day
I don't know what you feel about this,
but
for me, when it comes to growing adult,
you guys do whatever you want. Yeah? You
want to get together? You want to be
together for 2 years? You want to break
up and marry
someone else. It's sad that, like, do whatever
you want. But the children,
that's that's the that's the issue. The children.
So thing is that that psychology,
that individualist selfish psychology,
won't impart upon the children. They'll see that
this is how they'll grow up in, oh,
this is how marriage is. If they're not
happy, then this is how they must behave
and whatnot. I mean, the way the way
I view marriage,
my analogy will be 2 rocks.
You got 2 rocks,
and they're rubbing against each other.
Now, obviously, these rocks weren't made to rub
against each other. They were they were they
they're just 2 individual rocks. So there there's
a lot of friction. There's a lot of
noise. There's a lot of, you know, heat.
But over time,
these surface would smoothen off.
Eventually, they'll become
flat surfaces
on each other.
This is how marriage is. There's a lot
of friction.
He's he's this way. She's that way. I
don't get it. Blah blah blah. But
if you recognize that over time,
these will smoothen off
Wow. As your character will not in inadvertently
change.
Eventually, you get to a point whereby
you can't imagine life without each other because
you've you've you've become the same shape now.
You've become you fit. You've cleaved. But it's
about get it's about getting that way. It's
It's about getting from that rough surface to
that smooth surface takes a very long time.
And the reason why it takes a long
time is because there's so many things that
got to happen. You got to have children.
You got to wean those children. You have
to raise those children. You have to educate
those children. They have to go to secondary
school. Now they become adults. All these events
throughout your life will shape how you decide,
how you talk, how you behave.
I mean,
anyone who's been married for longer than 10
years will recognize
how they were at the beginning is not
how they are now. Mhmm. And how they
are now is not how they will be
in 10 years' time. Mhmm. So if you
recognize that you're gonna change,
make that change a positive way so that
you're changing for the benefit of this thing
you're trying to build. Unit. This unit. Right.
Exactly. The the unit. The unit. And not
just change and the thing is what's good
about this is that you're not trying to
change necessarily change them. They will change. Mhmm.
But you need to focus on changing you,
how you're gonna change. And this is what
the issue is. When you're individualist,
is that why aren't you changing? Why aren't
you doing x, y, zed? Why aren't you
working harder? Why aren't you trying to be
home early? Why aren't you trying to make
sure you don't
burn the or whatever?
But
the question is, what are you doing to
make the marriage work, and what are you
doing to fix things? I mean, this you
get what I'm saying? So Yeah. Anyway, I'm
going on about the same thing. But that's
basically why why I believe
that is that, generally speaking, all marriages have
the potential
to work
if one's willing to make it work. And
I don't really believe that something is really,
really at the end. Really. I mean, I've
have had people sometimes say, oh, I wanna
divorce. I can't tell this person. No. No.
It's the end of the world. This person
is so he's a narcissist. He's a this.
He's a that. I said, cool.
After about a probably an hour of chatting,
you and you scratch the surface. You realize,
wait. If this person
wants to work hard enough and blah, would
you go back with them?
No. I would think, yeah, I probably would.
But therefore, it wasn't that bad then, isn't
it? I mean, you still have fingers then.
You still will make it try. So it's
just about making the effort.
I'm married to a narcissist
or I escaped
a narcissist.
I don't know how many times I've heard
that expression,
in It's a it's a buzzword at the
moment. What's happening? Like, what what what's going
on with all these narcissists coming around? Is
a is a real thing. Narcissism is a
real thing. Yeah. But ironically
Mhmm. Ironically,
I learned about narcissism
from a documentary that's on channel 4. This
was long time ago.
Probably in 2020,
2010, because I ain't seen anything on channel
4 for for almost a decade. It must
be about about a time.
But it was something on channel doc doc
documentation on channel 4 about an actual clinical
narcissist.
And would you believe he was married?
Oh, I can believe that. I can believe
that. I mean, happily married. As in Oh.
She was happy to stay with him and
she I mean, he was he was he
was. I mean, when they was filming, he
was an hour long documentary. It was a
pretty interesting to see how it was. And
and describing what an artist actually looks like,
it was interesting for me because
it's it's
it's like a coldness,
but innocence and coldness as in it's like,
he doesn't recognize his coldness. He would just
say it's in you know, I think an
example of saying something like she was she
gave an example, like,
like, if if he if she made bad
food, he would just say, this is terrible.
What kind of food is this?
But it's because he's unfeeling
of anything anyone around him. He doesn't even
recognize that it's even hurtful. It's like,
she has she's she's come to acknowledge that
this is just him.
It's not that
he's a evil person.
Mhmm. He said this this is his
his
mental makeup. He is he has an inability
to recognize
the impact of his what he says on
other people.
For him, it's just the facts. I mean,
this is terrible. What's wrong with what's wrong
with saying is terrible? He he is unable
to do it. But the point isn't that.
The point is
to recognize his faults Mhmm. But loves him
for what he's good at.
Right.
This is interesting because as you said, evil
person, and I do think that narcissism
in this time is like code word for
evil. I was married to a narcissist.
Ergo, he was an evil man. He was
a bad guy.
Interesting. Interesting. Honestly, the the joke because I'll
I'll just one quick quick quick point about
it. I mean, if someone comes to you
in the future says, oh, I'm a nerd
and narcissist. Maybe just ask them. Okay.
What made him that way?
Meaning,
sometimes because I said, the reason I say
that question is important is because sometimes people,
they fail
to ask that question. Like I said it
before, what have they contributed to that? Oh,
okay. I see. Oh, how okay. That's what
you mean. I didn't I thought you meant
childhood or the way that he was raised
or something like that.
No. No. No. As in let me give
you example.
I'll give this one one one,
example. Trying to think of an example that
is not so specific that
that that person might might watch this and
say, oh, wait. Why are you telling me
my stories?
Okay. Let me give you examples. Like,
some might have an argument
with their husband,
and they said x y zed. And I
said, well, I can't understand why this way.
And I think oh, what's the matter, dude?
Something happened just the other day with another
couple that called me up. So they had
an argument,
or something like that, and and then they
said, oh, look. I even praised the person.
And, I mean, you know, I don't see
why he's behaving, so I even praised them
and I tried to compliment them. I said
to them, you know,
the word they used was,
you know, you could be so nice, but
this time that this this the the other
day, you did this this this this this
new. It was so nice when you did
this.
I said, but that's not a phrase. That's
a that's a that's a that's a cuss.
She said, how's it cuss? I praised him.
No. You phrased it as
you was this way.
That's a backhanded
compliment if I've ever heard one.
Yeah. Because
it is a compliment,
but, really, it's a dig because Yeah. You're
not this way now, and you could be
this way. But you get what I'm saying?
And that triggered him to react the way
he did. So I although his behavior was
incorrect and it was wrong and he admitted
that,
what she'd felt to realize that she triggered
that behavior.
So it's not to blame her or to
blame him. It's the it's the thing is
that
it's that we my married couple need to
recognize that both
are are to blame for what happens, not
just one side. It's not like one person
is, oh, I'm so nice, and I'm so
happy, and I've done everything for you. And
he's like, I'm a monster. I'm a monster.
It it isn't it doesn't who do you
mean I function that way? How do you
function that way?
I wonder whether there is room
to acknowledge
somebody's
contribution
to a bad situation
without being accused of, like, victim shaming
and and those types of of
How do you mean? Explain that. How do
you mean? Okay. So you said in that
situation that she said something that triggered him
to do x, y, z. And I know
that, you know, in another context, somebody said,
Oh, but you're blaming her now. You're making
her responsible for his bad behavior. You're victim
shaming or victim blaming. Right?
You're putting the onus on her when he's
the one who's in the wrong.
And I get that,
but I'm this is why I'm asking the
question. Can we be
mature enough to realize that
we do all co create situations?
We have a part to play. Even if
you bear the brunt of the situation,
you get the hard end of the stick,
right? Basically, you suffer as a result of
the thing that was triggered.
That doesn't mean that you may not have
played a part in it. Does that make
sense? Yeah.
I mean, the the best example I could
think of will be I mean, the best
thing to start off with this conversation is
that often and this happens a lot. I've
discussed this issue thousands of times. People bring
examples
whereby it's entirely his fault, obviously. Oh, yeah.
Something which is,
for example,
extreme domestic violence. For example, he comes home,
black and blue, hospitalization on a regular basis,
that kind of stuff.
But the problem with those examples is that
those are rarities.
That is not the actually the norm.
And let me give you a snide about
my own self. Yeah?
On how
scenarios
are really
one-sided.
So one time this happened months ago, but
I I I like to bring up because
it doesn't show it does show how perspective
is so important when it comes to dealing
with issues.
So one time, I said to my son
he was playing Minecraft
on PlayStation.
I said, turn the TV up. We're gonna
pray. Sorry. Sorry. I didn't tell him to
turn it off. I turned it off. I
said, we're gonna pray, and let's pray.
So in my mind,
TV is off. Game is there. Let's focus
on Salah.
You know, straightforward.
And then he I put the remote control
down,
and then he picked it up and turned
it back on.
Oh.
I mean, that's your reaction. Oh, I mean,
what's what's going on with that? And that
was my reaction. Probably, more extreme. I'm like,
what the heck is going on?
So my only reaction was,
oh, is that how it's going on now?
So I got I I I went to
the PlayStation, and I plugged it out. I
said, we're going to pray. Turn it off.
You know,
boundaries.
Dad, turn the TV off. Let's pray. Don't
go beyond the boundaries. Okay.
So
after that,
he was a bit vexed as as a
child would be. And fair enough. I mean,
I just I just manhandled you. Whatever, ain't
it? Yeah. But that persisted,
like, for weeks.
How? You mean vexed. And I'm like, how
dare you be vexed with me? I mean,
you're the one who want to keep that
in more control to disobey my my command.
Yeah. And then you're vexed with me. Mhmm.
So then I made a clear. I said,
your eye actually stinks. I mean, how dare
you treat your dad this way and blah
blah blah. You know?
I mean, you can understand this. I mean,
the the scenario is quite clear.
Yeah.
So, eventually, I'm telling my wife, look. This
boy, you yeah. Speak to him because I'm
gonna get I'm gonna get really upset. I'm
upset. Hey. What was he how how how
you treat your parents this way?
It turns out, though Mhmm. It turns out
that he didn't turn on the TV to
be disrespectful. He just wanted to shut down
the game then pray. So he just wanted
to quickly go, dog.
Run on what button, this button, shut down,
and then play. Yeah. So in his mind,
it wasn't disobedience. He was just trying to
complete what I was doing. Yeah. It just
happened that the way I saw it, it
was disrespectful.
Okay. So what's with the vexeness, though? What's
with the frustration towards you that for, like,
gone of weeks? Well,
it turns out
that this world that he was building
for months,
when I plugged it out, it deleted.
So he lost
his his game.
So this is why I was, like, saying,
you know, you should apologize for what he
did. I said, but I only plugged it
out because of what he did. It was
so if anyone's to blame, he said blame
himself. But the point here is not blame
or not blame. It isn't. Yeah. Here is
that there was this was actually a blameless
situation.
SubhanAllah.
Oh, no.
Poor thing. Ugh. I feel like it's a
Not for the self self sorry for him.
Whereas, initially, it was like It's true we
were caring about brother at the beginning. Right?
Now we're on the side of the kid.
No. We are team kid, team Minecraft kid.
So So
we can see here that this is a
scenario which I'm sure occurs all the time
in all scenarios, in all relationships where one
person does one thing. And in their perspective,
why are you behaving this way? Yeah. If
you just flip the script Yeah. And look
for another perspective, why are you behaving this
way? And there actually isn't a blame to
be put on anyone. It's just lack of
perspective.
Yeah. Yeah. And and I think as well,
Patricia. Yeah. I think I I totally agree
with you and I think, you know, sometimes
we can build
well, we tell a story, don't we, about
the people around us.
I think, you know, husbands can do it
for their wives and wives can do it
for their husbands and he's always like this,
he's always like that, he never does this,
he never does that. And then I believe
that
everything that we see,
we're filtering through the lens of, yeah, but
that's what he's like. So he does something
seemingly innocent or actually even a nice thing,
but because the story you're telling yourself is
that, well, he always does x y z,
it's just a confirmation of, well, you see,
he always does x y z. So
even people's
actions,
we don't just respond to the action. We
respond to our interpretation
of the meaning of the
action. Yep. And that's what we just said
there.
What you just said there,
it's really, really important. And this is one
of the things I mentioned, in my recent
videos about Redfield
is that it's to do framing.
How do you frame the situation?
So, for example,
one of the things the the most common
things that I mentioned about in Redfield,
ideology is that women are hypergamous. Those aren't
the best.
And there was a scenario, like, for if
a if a man who was practice 2
men are practicing, but one in the richer
than the other, who would you choose and
blah blah blah. That they're always framing that
in that scenario.
And the interpretation, the conclusion is that women
are hypergamous,
but that's according to a particular frame. Mhmm.
Let's we can look at the same scenario
Mhmm. From a different frame and have a
have a different and have a different,
interpretation.
So let's look at different interpretation.
Historically speaking,
of the men and women
out there who has generally had more money,
who has generally been more 6 more more
stronger, who has generally been, more dominant, and
that kind of stuff. As in the reason
why a woman may choose a stronger man
or a richer man because that was generally
what was there.
In a scenario whereby a woman is highly
successful
an husband, is
that necessarily what she's still gonna go for
all the time, or is or is she
okay marrying someone who maybe isn't as successful
as that? For example, if a woman was
a doctor and then really well as a
doctor and her husband was a chef,
chefs don't get paid as much as doctors.
Are you telling me that her husband she
won't marry a guy if he's a chef
because because she's a doctor?
If she gets along with him and she
loves him and she has affection for him,
will she is him being a chef really
gonna break the marriage down? It's the reframing.
But, again,
I wanna push back on that a little
bit. And then Go for it. Go for
it. Again, because everyone has a frame. Right?
So
if my frame
is
that I've reached a certain point in my
life me, I'm just any person,
miss blogs.
I've reached a certain point in my life
educationally,
financially,
you know, security wise, you know, profession etcetera
etcetera.
I cannot respect a man who is less
than me, who earns less than me, who
has less than I have And I deserve
someone who's on my level or higher. I
know that you're familiar with this because women
are constantly saying it.
Like, constantly saying it. And this is something
I don't understand. You know, my my message
to women right now,
please stop going on TikTok
and and just talking about
your madness because
it's just it's it's so embarrassing to just
see Yeah. Yeah. My sisters in womanhood, just
like
onto this social platform.
All your ridiculous demands,
your ridiculous expectations,
your arrogance,
your your conceit, your your meanness really, and
and disregard for for your basic respect and,
and just basic decency. I can't stand it.
I, I, I, I understand
why MGTOW is a thing because MGTOW feeds
on that stuff. So we've changed the subject
guys. We've gone on another one, something else
now.
But MGTOW,
men going their own way,
black pill, all of that,
they are framing.
They allow those women
and what those women say about men who
are broke,
dusties,
ugly,
ain't got no game, you know, all these,
you know, short, fat, whatever the case may
be, right? Losers, basically.
They allow
those women to to to be their frame.
So now they view the whole world through
the frame of Through that lens. Yeah. Women
won only the top 1%, the top 10%.
They every you know, they don't date under
6 foot and all of the data and
all of that
feeds into the paranoia and the, I'm sorry,
but the nihilism
of you
know, I am not select.
I am not in the top 10%. I'm
not a high value man. Therefore, what's the
point? All women are like this.
Shallow, vacuous,
vain,
demanding,
don't have bring anything to the table and
all of that because
ladies, that's what y'all putting out on social
media, and they just make videos of it.
But anyway But that's the thing is, when
they say women are like this, the question
I say is, is that due to her
innate nature or due to her nurture?
Very good point. Very, very good point.
From what I there was one there was
one really good video I stumbled across which
was, you know, those those feeds on YouTube
where you just click on it. So one
guy wants to compare
the desires of women for men or what
they want in a man Yeah. Women in
the west are women from the east, and
he chose Philippine Philippines.
It was completely different. That's totally true. It
was completely different.
As in, they they weren't concerned about any
of the other women that were concerned about.
It's nonsense. It's literally postmodern western
society where
just everyone thinks, yeah, it's just delusion.
As, you know, LTR says it's delusion. It's
just this idea that
I qualify for whatever I want, you know,
and what I want is what I should
have. And if if, you know and and
basically, if you can't bring what I want
to the table, then, you know, get lost.
But again, like, you know, like you said,
people thinking they have time
and that they have all the options.
Yep. Yep. But like I said, even even
when you mentioned you wonder, you said you're
you're educated and you've you've you've reached a
certain place in your life that you can't
imagine yourself respecting someone less than yourself.
That's what you think. I It's a story.
It's a story. Yeah. It's a story. Believe
that if you had a man whom you
love deeply, because he treats you well and
Yeah. All that other stuff, then his qualification
is overlook. Even how tall he is, you'd
overlook. Because
he took he you're able you basically, the
question is, are you able
to build this
structure with this person? That's what the question
is. Yeah.
And that's what I'm saying. I think that
that
Go on. From that?
No. No. I was just gonna say that
the
it's it's not
building
a lifestyle
and an individual
lifestyle with a man and kids attached. One
of my other guests mentioned that, which I
thought was so powerful. She said, look, you
either are going to choose yourself,
and you know, this vision that you have
for yourself.
I'm that kind of woman. I deserve that.
That's the life I want. That's the car
I wanna drive. That's the house I wanna
live in. That's the kind of man I
see myself with. This vision. Right? This fairy
tale that you've that you've got in your
head
and possibly with a man and kids attached
or you're going to join with another human
being and you're gonna build something worthwhile. And
you're going to put everything you have into
that and you're gonna sacrifice for it and
that's going to be part of your life's
purpose.
But the 2 of them are not the
same.
I mean, if you even if you look
even if you just scratch the surface on
on when people speak about what they want
for a marriage, I think you'd probably even
find that
kids aren't even in in the in the
top five things that they want for a
marriage. Oh, yeah. That's Where that where where
should be the top one. I mean, what
else are you coming together for other than
to have kids and raise another ummah? That
is the primary goal. Because people don't want
marriage. They want a relationship.
They want couple goals.
They want to have the the romance, the
halal romance, you know, the halal love story,
the the that the halal, Hollywood, blah blah.