Naima B. Robert – Message for Muslim Women Let’s Talk About Hijab @FatimaBarkatulla @Tesla98vv and guests
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Bismillah. Bismillah. Assalamu alaikum
everyone.
Thank you so much
for being here
for our first virtual salon
sister session.
And the
impetus behind
the virtual salon, for those of you who
are not familiar,
is a safe space for Muslims to come
together to talk about some of the most
pressing issues in our community today.
My,
my passion for the virtual salon is to
have
really authentic important conversations,
and we've been blessed. I think this is
our 5th session so far. Some
Some of you have been there before, some
of you have attended, some of you have
been panelists.
And the really the idea of it is
just to bring together the bet you know,
the the Muslim minds to come together
and to to share experiences,
to share expertise,
to have thought provoking
conversations, and most importantly,
to bring about a conversation
within the community because
this is where the change takes place.
When you get people talking
through things, talking about things, and then taking
action,
I believe that you know, I firmly believe
that
as a community,
if we want to see change,
it has to be
heart by heart, family by family, home by
home, you know, and community by community. And
if we take on responsibility
to change ourselves,
then we have the opportunity, inshallah, to change
the future.
So with that, I'd like to invite and
just welcome my wonderful panelists who've been so
kind to make time on a Friday to
be with us, to share this space with
us. And I pray that Allah
blesses this space, makes it a place of
khair,
and makes it a place of enlightenment
and
and rewards every single one of you for
your intention being here. And before I get
to the panelists, I also ask that Allah
give you
what you need from this session.
Because I think that anytime we go somewhere,
we we we sign up for something or
we turn something on,
our heart is calling for something. There's something
that we need to hear. There's something that
we need to know. So my dua is
that you, my sister, who's watching this, wherever
you may be watching this, I pray that
you get what you need
out of this session and that this becomes
something that Allah
is pleased with and that counts as one
of our good deeds on your makliya.
So with that being said, I would like
to welcome my panelists.
Guys, if you can just, unmute, inshallah. I've
got sister Fatima Barqatullah.
As you guys know, you know, Masha'Allah, she
is, she's an alima, a teacher, an author,
a mother. Fatima,
how long have you been wearing hijab?
Can you hear me? Yes. Perfectly well.
How long have you been wearing hijab?
Oh,
since I was about 9.
Really?
Yeah. Masha'Allah. Masha'Allah.
I'm looking forward to hearing from you, you
know, as we continue this conversation because we've
had many conversations about, you know, so many
different things. Right? So thank you so much
for making the time to be here today.
Thank you for this opportunity.
I've got sister Hakima as well here.
All the way from sis, where are you
based?
I'm in Northern Virginia in US.
So sister Hakima, if you guys don't follow
her
a stylist, she is,
an Instagrammer.
And, you know, and I I actually heard
from one of my friends
way back that you grew up in her
community. So she was like, oh, little Hakima's
all grown up.
So thank you so much for being in
touch. Chicago then if she knows me from
back then. Okay. Yes. Yes. She is.
I've also got sister Zahra here all the
way from Nigeria. No. You're not from Nigeria.
You're in the UK right now. Boy. No.
No. No. I'm I'm in no. You're right.
You're right. I'm in Lagos at the moment.
I jump I jump between the 2, but
I'm currently in Lagos.
Super cool. And you're the founder of the
Onfariha Network.
You know, very active on
Instagram. But you have a secret past, which
we are gonna talk about.
Okay. Thank you so much for coming. We've
got sister Lauren Booth here who I'm sure
is known to many of you as a
journalist,
author, speaker, presenter.
And you're doing some exciting things nowadays, Lauren.
And where are you based right now?
Everybody. I am in Istanbul at the moment
in a beautiful park near the coast, but
it's a it's a blessing, to hear the
adhan.
And so, yeah, lots to lots to share.
So thank you so much for being here.
And, again, we're gonna cross to the other
side of the world now. We've got sister
Emani Bashir here who is also a journalist,
a speaker,
an author, and
a digital nomad. Do you accept that title,
sis?
I accept it. Okay.
And where are you based right now? I'm
in Mexico.
Mexico. Inshallah. Happy to do that. So, Inshallah,
we have another panelist who is on her
way. Inshallah, when she joins, we'll, we'll spotlight
her. But for now,
miss Mila, let's get to the point of
why we're here. Okay?
Those of you who signed up for this,
you know that a lot has happened
with regards to the hijab over the past
few weeks, months. I feel like years even.
Right?
And this is really a space where we're
here to talk through things. We're here to
kind of maybe dig into some of the
questions that I put out there. So it's
a free flowing discussion.
It's not like everybody, you know, has, like,
a time and they get to say their
piece. You know, it really is an open
discussion, sisters. So feel free to kind of,
you know, like, put your hand over the,
you know, and and kind of do, like,
get in there.
But, really, what pushed me to to to
bring this panel together
is, you know, we all know the the
latest kind of events or happenings within the
online space in particular,
but I feel like what's been happening in
the online space with, you know, women taking
off their hijabs very publicly, etcetera,
feels like
something that's been happening for a while in
different parts of the world and for different
reasons.
And I know that,
you know,
hijab has changed
in the past 5 years. You know? In
the past 5 years,
you know, hijab has become an industry in
a way that it wasn't 10, 20 years
ago.
You know, there there are reputations built on
it. There is money to be made.
There is an identity,
that is that is kind of available for
you as a hijabi in a way that
it wasn't before. And I know that everyone
here has is has their own experience of
this, and so I really wanna kind of
open it up to a conversation
where everyone's coming from their own experience. But
the first person I'd like to actually ask
to to share with us is, sister Zahra,
because you you were, you know, one of
the kind of
pioneers in a way of, you know, the
whole modest fashion
blogging,
hijabi blogging,
but kinda back in the day. Right? So
I would love for you to explain to
us how the industry has changed
in the past,
maybe 5 years or so, if you could
speak to that.
Everyone. Thank you so much, sister Naima, for
inviting me. And the funny thing is that
when, Sister Naima actually invited me on, she
had no clue,
that I actually started out my entrepreneurial and
creative
journey,
in the modest fashion space.
So I started my very first business at
the age of 18
in 2009,
and it was a modest fashion line. And
back then, you know, there there was we
were we were all on, like, blogspot.
We were all on blogspot back then on
blog. We're like, there wasn't Instagram,
back then. There was we were on Facebook
and Blogger, blog spot, we had you know
those were those were the the channels that
we were starting to get ourselves out there
and it was a really lovely time because
we saw the beginning of this cross border
sisterhood
where you know we're connecting with sisters all
over the world and the thing that united
us was this hijab.
And alhamdulillahi that it was such a beautiful
time to be in that space because you
know as I said it was this it
was this one thing that connected us across
borders.
And for me,
growing up being born and and bred in
the UK,
initially actually I started my fashion career because
I'm like I'm 6 foot 1, I'm super
tall and it's very hard to get clothes
for my for my size
and modest clothing for my, you don't get
long skirts for people that are 6 foot
1 and long dresses and things like that.
And so I started out really trying to
cape that to the Muslim women and like
customizing pieces obviously that Nigerian background of you
know we go to the tailors, we get
our clothes made and it was just a
struggle in the UK then. So initially just
you know you know focusing on British British
Muslim women
who want tailor made you know modest clothing.
And you know because it was it was
it was actually a huge massive need back
then
and it's particularly clothing that was also stylish
and and whatnot. So fast forward
to 2012,
by then you know Instagram had come and
the modest fashion scene has started to blow
up and I remember by that point in
time you know we, by then we were
doing like you know fashion fashion shows with
like you know Dina Tokyo and you know
all these other all these other sisters we
all started out at this at the same
time.
And by 2012
it kind of for me had gone off
a tangent in a way
and I felt like we were no longer
trying to cater to Muslim women,
we were catering to IG fans
and likes and growing our audience.
And so I was really struggling with that
because I had lost the essence of why
I had started and I said to myself
that there are so many options available now,
Alhamdulillah.
I don't and if I can't be at
the level of like
Inaya for example, for me, because I was
looking at this from like a business where
we're catering to the market, where we're fulfilling
a need that isn't there. And so I'm
like, if I can't be like a Inaya
or a Modernista
where I'm truly creating pieces for the Muslim
woman, then why am I in this space?
And I really started to question why am
I in this modest fashion space? And I
took a step back at that point in
2012
and I stopped my clothing line.
And I remote I relaunched in I think
it was 2016,
I relaunched in 20 a couple of years
after like it took me a while I
really had to, you know, really grapple with
this because it was a battle. It was
honestly a battle for me. And I decided
that, do you know what? I'm gonna shift
my focus to Nigeria
because I felt like the London the UK
scene had fog on. Like, I had lost
it. I'm like, do you know what? I
I don't feel like I can make an
impact here, but I want to be a
I would say no. I don't want to
say an authoritative voice, but I want to
be a good example for young Muslim sisters
in Nigeria,
who want to tap into this global sisterhood
because there's so there has been so much
baraka in that global sisterhood giving sisters the
confidence especially with the Nigerian context
because it's very difficult to be a head
a hijabi in Nigeria to get to get
a job. There's a lot of discrimination here.
You wouldn't expect it being a majority majority
Muslim country, but there is so much discrimination.
And so sisters really struggled with wearing the
hijab. And so I wanted to
be a support
and not allow the Nigerian scene to turn
into what the what I thought the global
UK US scene had turned into where it
was all about fashion.
And yeah. So, you know, I started modest
fashion Nigeria then.
And again, it's that same thing of just
feeling like
initially we're in there we're trying to make
a change, you know, organizing events. I organized
this event called the Essence
And many people who might be familiar with
The Essence, but may not know that the
root of The Essence brand came from my
quest to figure out what is the essence
of the hijab. And that was the question
that kept on coming into my mind. What
is the essence of this hijab that we're
wearing? What is the essence? What is the
essence? And I created an event, it was
called the Essence. We had a fashion show.
This was 2016.
And
by 2017,
you know, again it was a sister's only
event but some pictures of the fashion show
had gotten out there, you know how Instagram
is. And then I and then so I
was like this defeats the purpose. I had
sisters blowing up my DM saying oh my
life ambition is to be a model, you
know, I really want and I'm like,
That's not the point. That's not why I
created the space. And so again, for me,
I felt it was such a responsibility
putting myself out there and saying this is
for, you know, this is trying to represent
what the hijab should be. And so I
just decided that do you know what I'm
gonna pull out of this space because I
don't feel as though
I am truly in alignment with
what the essence
should be. I don't I feel like we're
being misinterpreted.
I think that we're being judged because for
me, I was also trying to be a
bridge between the the the sisters who are
wearing full hemar, full niqab, you know, and
then the sisters who are still wrapping their
turbans, wearing their skinny jeans, but trying.
And I was trying to be a bridge.
And so in Nigeria, again, very peculiar context,
there's a lot of judgment.
It's very toxic.
The 4 hijabi sisters, Nakabi sisters look down
on the sisters who are in scarf. They
say, you know, hijabiites, scarfight, turban. They start
tagging people
and judging their level of iman and piety
based on that. And so, you know, I
just felt like I was then being judged
as I started, you know, a piece of
people started calling me modest fashion. That's what
that like, they see me, oh, modest fashion
idea. I'm like, that's not really the brand
that I want to portray because I'm so
much more and the own Faruhiha network is
so much more than modest fashion. We're really
a wholesome network for Muslim women. And so
I I decided to distance myself from that
brand just because I felt like it was
losing the essence of what it was meant
to be about. It wasn't allowing people to
focus on
the soul of Islam,
there was just too much focus on the
exterior
and so that's kind of a very brief
kind of I'm like rushing out, I I
wanted to make sure that there's enough space
for everyone else to contribute. But that's kind
of like a brief highlight of my journey.
I hope in the discussion, I can go
into it a bit more. But honestly for
me, it's just continual quest.
I'm trying to answer that question. What is
the essence of this hijab? What is the
essence of
me as an abd, as a as a
slave to Allah? What is the essence of
my creation?
And am I living in alignment with that?
And if I'm unable to answer that
question honestly with myself that this thing that
I'm doing is for the sake of Allah
and is in alignment with my with the
purpose of my creation, if I can't say
that wholeheartedly,
then I step back from it. And I
continue that self discovery
until I get to a place where I'm
like, okay, I think that this is this
is in alignment with with with my rock,
Insha'Allah. So, yeah, that's a bit
Thank you thank you so much for that.
And I I just want to pick up
on something and open this out to the
other panelists where you mentioned about the essence.
I posted the question,
you know, what does that mean to you?
You know, what is the essence of hijab?
Is the essence of hijab
something that is mandated?
Like, if I was to ask maybe Fatima,
you know, is there an Islamic definition of
the essence of hijab?
Is it something open to interpretation? I'd love
to hear the panelists.
If I was to ask you the question
here for you, what is the essence
of hijab?
What would you say? Just put your hand
up. I'll spotlight you. We'll take it from
there. Go ahead, Fatima.
Hey. Assalamu
alaikum, everyone.
Well,
the essence of hijab is that
the hijab is a command from Allah subhanahu
wa ta'ala. What we call the hijab, the
popular word hijab, which when we when we
mention it, we mean by it the Muslim
woman's dress, I guess,
when she's out in public or when she's
in the presence of non mahrams,
is that it is a command from the
creator of the heavens and the earth. Right?
Allah
tells us in the Quran.
He says,
I'm just gonna read the translation.
Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala tell says, and tell
the believing women in Suratul Uhmuhr and tell
the believing women to lower their gazes
from looking at forbidden things and protect their
private parts
and not to show off their adornments, their
zina,
right, the beauty and adornments,
except that which is apparent, and to draw
their head coverings,
their khemars,
over their duhbihinna.
And some scholars interpreted that as the entire
bodies,
including their faces and and hands, and others
said it was everything except the face and
hands.
And not to reveal their adornments, their zina,
except
to their husbands or their fathers or their
husbands' fathers
or their sons or their husbands' sons or
their brothers or their servants
sorry. Or their brother brothers' sons or their
sisters' sons or their women
or the female slaves whom their right hands
possess
or elderly male servants
or small children who have no
sense of
the nakedness of women,
and let them not stamp their feet so
as to reveal what they hide of their
adornment.
Right? So not even to stamp our feet
so people know the jewelry and the things
that we're wearing
and their imaginations,
you know, are kind of peaked.
And then Allah says, and all of you
beg Allah to forgive you all, oh believers,
that you may be
successful.
And Allah also tells us in Surah Al
Ahab, and I think it's worth reiterating
this because
it's almost as if,
Naima and,
sisters, you know, that what I've noticed is
it's always as if
sometimes
people have forgotten that these injunctions
are there in the Quran, you know. Allah
tells
us, yeah,
he says to prophet salallahu alayhi wa
sallam,
yeah,
Oh prophet,
tell your wives, your daughters,
and the women of the believers.
That's us. Right?
To draw their jalabib,
their jalbaaz
all over their bodies.
That will be better so that they will
be recognized
and not,
you'd
say, annoyed or harmed.
And Allah is ever of forgiving most merciful.
I think what's really interesting is the way
that
in in both of these ayaats,
Allah
tells the believing women to
wear an over garment or uncover themselves when
they're in the presence of non mahrams.
But at the end, he also says Allah
is oft forgiving.
So Allah
knows that,
you know,
we will fall short, you know, and some
of sometimes we will
maybe falter.
Okay? And Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala is
forgiving.
And when I read these ayaat,
they are ayaats of pure love.
You know?
A caring creator,
a creator of
women, telling us as women
that he wants us to
preserve our honor, to value ourselves,
and he's telling us how to protect ourselves.
So I think any discussion about the essence
of hijab
has to start from from that. You know?
The fact that Allah,
our creator, has
has,
commanded us
to cover in this way in public. And,
yes, there is some variation there, you know,
cultural variation.
You know, I'm talking about the halal variation,
you know, that scholars of Islam have talked
about. So
definitely
Islam spread
to every nation on earth
and people of different nations and different countries
and different cultures,
took the, I would say, the conditions and
the parameters of hijab, and they,
of course, express them in
slightly different ways. And,
as long as the conditions of hijab that
the scholars of Islam talk about are met,
then a certain level of variation is
is acceptable. But I think it's worth reiterating
what those conditions are.
So covering
everything except the face and hands according to
some scholars and other scholars including the face
and hands. And the covering should be something
that is loose.
It's not see through.
Something that is,
not tight.
Okay.
It should be something that's not a dazzling
display in and of itself that causes people
to be, you know, attracted to it. So
as long as those,
general,
yani conditions are met,
there's some flexibility
as to how
we, interpret it. Obviously, that's
the religious aspect
of, this discussion, you know, that we
have to bear in mind. But I think
there's also a political aspect.
I don't wanna, like
you can I have a fight on that?
Do you mind do you mind if we
circle back to that? Because I think it's
really important and it's gonna come up. I'm
gonna bring Imani in on that one for
sure,
because we've had this conversation,
you know, about the political
and cultural
and and identity issues,
with ibn Abijab. So if you don't mind,
I wanna circle back to that inshallah.
But, I mean, I know that, you know,
as you're going through
the conditions of hijab according to, you know,
Islamic law,
and you're you know, we're quoting from the
Quran,
You know, I'm seeing my, you know, Instagram
feed, you know, my for some reason,
my suggestion
page
where I'm seeing, you know,
very very varied interpretations
of of hijab.
And, obviously, Zahra mentioned about
the pressure
that there is,
as a result of social media, but also
business.
Yeah? Branding,
money,
personal taste, you know, and and I and
I and I think that I think that
this for me, that that why this conversation
is happening now is because
there was a time
when hijab was not fashionable. Okay? Let's just
say it how it is. Okay?
There was a time when if you wore
a scarf of any kind,
you were out of style. There was no
way you could be on trend. Okay? I
remember when I first became Muslim, you know,
they had the triangle hijabs, you know, with
the lace down the front, and you just
put it under your chin, and they had
those terrible arbayas with padded shoulders.
You you know, the padded shoulders and the
the pleated sleeves and the big buttons down
the front, and it was just like, no.
No. No. No. No. Like, what is this?
So at that time in the nineties and
probably before,
like, there was no there was no tension.
If you decided to wear hijab,
you knew halas. Like, that that's it for
me. You know? I'm not gonna be hot.
I'm not gonna be cool. I'm not gonna
be trendy. People gonna look at me. I'm
gonna look like a stranger
in this place. Okay? That has shifted dramatically
as we as we all know. So I'd
like to open up for the panelists. Hakima,
this is your business. Yeah. This is your
your world.
How do you think that the essence
hijab mean to you essentially, the essence of
it? And what are the pressures do you
think of our modern world and maybe hijab's
prominence as well in the modern world and
it being more acceptable and more kind of,
I guess, flexible? What what's your take on
it?
So in terms of what hijab means to
me, I think it's really important what, sister
Fatima mentioned, because
the hijab is a commandment from Allah.
So at the at the base of all
of our actions,
you know, that that is that is where
this this garment comes from. Not just the
head covering, but the entire head to toe,
you know, layering and and making sure that
your your curves are covered and,
and making sure that you that you comply
with as much as you can those those
guidelines.
Of of course, and as Zahra mentioned, and
her story relates to me so much because
I feel that me and her started at
about the same time.
And
that sense of community that was there at
the very beginning,
it definitely,
it was it was it's definitely been diminished
over time with the,
increase of this hierarchy
due to,
Instagram, due to social media. Because even when
it was just Facebook back then, I started
off in 2009
as a hijab shop.
Then I switched over to styling in 2,011,
and I didn't even open Instagram because I
could kinda see what Instagram would kind of
the dynamic it would bring into it. I
didn't switch over to Instagram
until I think 2014,
because I just felt that, okay, I I've
gotta get on this platform where everybody's at,
you know, if I wanna be relevant and
be known and, you know, have my services
rendered at these different fashion events and then,
you know, kind of broaden
my perspective. I've gotta be in that in
that space with everyone else.
And I do think that
that that,
that sentiment that she mentioned of kind of
looking around, seeing the dynamics that you don't
really con form to. Like, you you you
definitely wanna distance yourself from those types of
dynamics,
but you also have to be in the
space where those dynamics exist and they will
be associated
to you whether or not
you propagate them.
It it it gives you this kind of,
like,
you're you're constantly being between a rock and
a hard place. Because you wanna do fashion
events, you wanna do fashion shows because it
it helps to amplify the voice of the
designer.
But then again, do you want to are
the are there fashion shows available for you
in the in the,
the environment that is also Islamic. Right? So
you have to kind
of, like, I I personally
love would love for my business to be
only based on Muslim women events. But here
in the US, we don't really have them.
Right?
We don't really have them as much as
the some non Muslim events. So in my
first step into the door with fashion shows,
I did a DC Fashion Week. DC Fashion
Week for 6 seasons in a row. And
that was really how I I built my
network of designers, and I'm always working for
a Muslim sister, whether overseas or local,
showing her stuff on the on the runway.
But I stopped doing DC Fashion Week. And
again, Zahra, you're
I relate to you to you so much
because there was one statement that someone said
at DC Fashion Week that made me step
completely away from it. And even though it
was a great business move for me,
I could not bring myself because of that
essence of hijab being taken away,
because all they could see from like, a
non Muslim perspective was, oh, modest fashion.
They didn't see the
the
where this comes from from the heart. They
didn't see that we're trying to promote the
idea that you don't have to over sexualize
yourself as a woman. You shouldn't have to
take off your clothes for you to be
respected.
You you know, your voice should be heard
even if you're from behind a you know
what I mean? Some people go behind a
com a a physical screen, not just the
hijab screen. You should be able to hear
that.
But because I'm in their space,
it was it was it was,
misinterpreted.
So when they what they said was,
I've even seen, you know, Rihanna wearing modest
fashion
Because Rihanna put a hijab on and went
to a mosque in Dubai.
And that season was my last season.
I couldn't bear it anymore.
Because Rihanna took you out, sis. Rihanna took
you out. That was it.
Oh, Rihanna is what is the reason why
you respect modest fashion. You you really don't
know anything about Hijab at all. Yeah.
So,
I took myself out of that space and
I said, you know what? Even though there
aren't as many opportunities for modest fashion made
for and by in a woman audience, by
Muslim women, for Muslim women, even if there's
one of those events a year, I'm gonna
go only go to that one event. I'm
not gonna do DC Fashion Week or these
other professional shows anymore. So so that that
kind of
how how this culture of social media and
I am in in in it right now.
But it constantly makes you
go back and think, why am I here?
Why am
I why am I still here even though
there's these other voices I don't wanna be
associated with?
And I think it's like that dynamic of
I mean, people talk about the 3rd culture
kid these days, where it's not really your
how your mom thought of it, but it's
not really how, like, people these days think
about it. It's like kinda how you you
think of it. And you try to be
as
vocal about that and try to show that
in your, in your work or whatever
it is that you have created your platform
on. I think hijab these days,
it's,
it's
a form of self expression as well.
The religious, I hope, is,
the religious basis is still there, I hope,
for most of us. But it's also a
an expression of self and individuality,
in terms of, you know, the style. And
that's why I'm a stylist. I love to
see how people
wear different their hijab in different ways while
still trying their best to conform to the,
to the principles behind hijab.
I think one of the things that have
put hijabis in a box is the idea
that your hijab can only look a certain
way for it to be,
for it to be accepted.
And so a lot of times people don't
think that they can reach that level.
And so it's like,
well, then I'm not even gonna wear it
or, you know, I'm not gonna call myself
hijabi, but I'll just keep my hair my
hair covered in a certain in, you know,
I'll keep my hair covered in the way
that I'd like, but I'm not gonna use
the word hijabi because it puts me in
a box that
makes me overly judged.
People think that I can I have to
underperform
at work? People think that I I don't
know English. I mean, things like that are
always associated
with
a more religious or conservative level of wearing
hijab. So when people come back from that
and and uncover parts of them that maybe
previously they they thought they should or they
still think they should, but they just want
to kind of look a certain way to
be more acceptable,
I think that,
I think that that's that's really set and
that's a dynamic that comes from an Instagram
culture where we see people propelled to a
certain levels in that hierarchy that I mentioned,
that where they're hid up in that way.
Right? And the people who are maybe trying
to, as best as they can, conform with
the principles,
that are based in the in, in religion,
maybe they're not propelled. So that popularity,
is something that is, is something that, you
know, that influences how people wear hijab.
And I say the word influences, I mean,
this influencer
influencer
world these days. So,
yeah. I just I'll leave it at that
for other people who can talk. Thank you.
I know that's subhanallah, just the parallels between
your experiences
then, you know, and obviously, you know, I
I love the fact that we've kind of
got a fairly multi generational panel here because
we've got us OGs and then they've got
some millennials. And I know I know
sorry. I just Everybody you guys must know.
If you own virtual salon, you know that
I refer to people in my generation as
the OGs. That's it. But, anyway,
the the reality is though, there is a
difference. There is a huge difference between us
I don't know what they call us now.
We're not boomers. I can't remember. But
the generation that has grown up with the
Internet, that has grown up with social media,
and is, you know, fully digital natives, they
call them, fully you know, millennials exactly, but
also under millennials as well. So Generation zed,
this is their world that they inhabit.
And one of the things that you mentioned
was this issue of popularity. Oh, we've got
a Gen z and crowd. Yes, sis. Thank
you. Do you say zed or zed? We
should be saying zed, but then we've got
Americans here, so we have to say zed
and so,
but but it's it's it's interesting to me
because as as I I'm an older woman.
I have children who are, you know and
my eldest is 20 is 20, 20, 21,
and I see
that
that third culture that you talked about, Hakima,
that's striving to straddle
these two identities,
the Muslim,
maybe parental,
more kind of family familial identity,
and then this identity that really is kind
of what they've grown up in. You know?
They've been to school in it. They read
the books. They watched the films and everything.
So it's kind of like
I I I feel like young people today,
millennials and and
under, their heart is in being Kim Kardashian
with a hijab.
It's like,
I wanna be hot. I want to be
beautiful. I want to have eyebrows on fleek.
Like, I want that life,
but I don't wanna give away my dean.
Emani, you're laughing at me, but it's okay.
Emani is really laughing there. But but that's
what I see. And even, like, when we,
when I see people,
you know, praising somebody who wears hijab, etcetera,
it it it's the same language. Girl, you
look hot. You know? Oh my you know,
like, slaying.
You know, it's the same language,
and I get that because I think that's
that's really where,
you know you know, the the cultural roots
are in the western culture. That's where the
roots are. You know? That's what you're drinking
from. Or maybe the the soil
might be a Muslim culture, but the roots
are being nourished by what we culture, but
the roots are being nourished by what we
read, what we see, what we listen to,
and the cultural influences we have around us.
But I wanna just, you know, just I
you know, just I wanna go to Lauren
for a second here because
I wanna ask you,
have we as Muslims kind of been fooled
into basically
just
just buying into
the western
slash materialist
slash capitalist game?
You know, the whole social media
kind of, you know, vortex, if you like.
Have we lost the plot, do you think?
I'm gonna come back to that because there's
so many great comments here. I want to
say salaam alaykum to Hakima and Zafarah and
Fatima.
We have the context of the holy Quran,
and we have the context that sisters
trying to do,
really great things within their talent area,
string strongly for the sake of Allah, but
in an area that's really difficult,
what they're doing. And I you know what
the sisters reminded me of? You reminded me
there's more than one way to do clothing.
I'd I've become quite disheartened
by, you know, the Instagrammers,
by this constant drip drip of, like you
said. I love it, Neymar.
Kardashians
in hijab,
you know?
As that being symbolic of, that's the only
way you can do fashion. That's the only
way you're not gonna look anything but terrible
is to go in that direction and it
and it's like there's this riptide
And what you sisters are showing is like,
no. No. No. No. No. No. No. You
you you know, there is I I I
think I think, words are very important and
phrases. So
modest fashion.
Modesty and fashion?
I mean, I've only been in a a
Muslim for 10 years,
And already, I was scratching my head going,
hang on. I've just come from the fashionable
TV world and now I want to be
modest. And now you're telling me I have
to be fashionable in a modest way, but
not too fashionable and not too modest. And
and it's a and it's like you're suddenly
having this nervous breakdown again.
And so and so what we're doing is
adding this confusion. I'll give you an example,
recently. So with COVID,
I was out the other day and I
thought, you know what? Why don't I just
wear niqab? This is ridiculous. I've got this
silly you know, I look like I've just
got a hospital thing on my face. What
if I were to put on niqab? I
could do that. But then when it's hot,
I'd wanna take it off. And when I
eat, I wouldn't really wear it. And you
know what it comes down to? It comes
to that inner intention.
You can't just put it on
because it's something that's convenient and a bit
useful and people will like it. Right?
So at that moment with me thinking about
niqab, it was because I was bothered
by,
a mask. It's not because I was bothered
by my connection.
And I just love this this the reality
of this conversation, you know, the idea of
this Kardashian
in hijab, of this confusion in our hearts.
I do feel Sorry. Can I just jump
in there, Lauren? It's like, you know, that
that that pull that is constant between
Din or Aqira and Dunya
and wanting to have both,
like, really wanting to have both and and
and and hoping you can
as much as possible, but you're, like, just
juggling. You know? You're like it's like a
it's like you're you're juggling. You're trying to
be enough of this, but like you said,
but not too much of this and a
little bit of that, but not too much
and not too little. It's tough. It's tough.
Yeah. And you know when you when you
well, so so before I came on today,
it was like a screaming, like, the hijab's
not working moment. It's like, oh my god.
Oh my god. And I went,
just calm down. And you know what I
literally said to myself, sisters? I went to
the bathroom and I I was singing a
song. Remember that bad hair days are worse
than this. Bad hair days are worse than
So remembering that, you know, trying to blow
dry the hair would have been so much
worse and getting that last little strand.
So
taking time out for ourselves and saying, you
know what?
Wholesome clothing is what's important
and we can do that with decency
And
and not being sucked into that I you
know, I'm going to have sexy looking clothing.
And and, you know, let's be honest,
We're moving to a stage where you have
to be sexy in hijab now because because
it's not just about fashion.
The fashion reads,
making women other women should be jealous of
you, right, because you're that hot, and men
should look at you. I had one day
of not wanting to wear hijab, by the
grace of Allah so far.
And I've been a Muslim for about 6
weeks, and I thought, my god, I've gone
from this hot thirty something,
journalist
to looking like a 50 year old Arab
woman in the street of Egypt. You know?
All these you know? There's all these thoughts.
I'm not I'm not saying it wasn't racist
either. I'm saying it's just reality. Okay?
You know, who are you? This identity thing.
And I looked myself in the mirror and
I said, right, miss Booth. Give yourself one
give me one good reason that's better than
the love of Allah to take this hijab
off. And the only reason that I wanted
that that I wanted to take the hijab
off was I want men to look at
me.
And I want men to look at me.
Wait. Wait. Wait. Stop. Stop. Stop there. Stop
there.
We need to take a breath.
We need to take a breath with that
because this is real.
And this is real. And I the reason
I I'm sorry, Lauren, to jump in. You
know, I just want us to sit with
that for a second because
that's
that's real.
You know? The young not even young. Women
in general,
growing up in a society that we have,
we know we have some power. We have
certain aspects
that
can wield power, that have influence, that can
draw attention. We know this. That's why the
hijab is there.
But for real, for real,
I don't know any woman
who at one point
did not feel
I don't like the way I look in
hijab.
I don't look the way I used to
look. No one pays attention to me. You
know, I I don't get the attention I
used to get. Part of you misses that.
Part of you is is is happy that
you don't get the attention from the ugly
guys. Right? But then the other part is
like, okay. Well, now What?
You know? And so so, I mean,
reason we're having this conversation is so that
we we can make that space as women
to know like, to recognize
ourselves and others. Because for for sure,
everyone wants to feel beautiful.
Everybody wants to feel appealing, maybe not sexually
attractive, but at least
appealing. You know? And it is enough seething,
and it's hard. So I wanna thank you
for for sharing that with us, Lauren, because
it's not something that we often talk about.
It's not something that people openly say that
I miss men looking at me or I
miss guys, you know, hollering or whatever. So
I I wanna thank you for that. Please
continue.
So, you know, one What happened on that
day? On that day? On that day. So,
yeah, I was looking in the mirror, and
I and I said, you know, you the
the only reason not to wear this is
because I genuinely want
those those looks again. And, the face in
the mirror said not good enough to swap,
Akhira and Allah's love for just not good
enough. And I put it on, and that
was for me a pivotal moment. So I
think, like you say,
to sit with these real decisions, to sit
with,
you know, there is a pretense in western
culture of I'm only doing this for me.
If I was on my own right now,
I would be wearing 5 inch heels,
that kill my feet and these things that
I'm squeezing into that go, you know, like
a song that's really uncomfortable because it would
just be for me because that's how I
feel empowered.
Is that true?
What do we what do we want for
ourselves? What do we want to purvey?
And where do we get
the messaging from? So, again, I just want
to give some more space to other sisters
because I think, Hakima and Zafra, I'm glad
you're out there because I'd forgotten that,
you know, there was ethical ethical
I don't like the word fashion. I I
love wholesome. Them. Hold something. I love it.
You said. I love that.
Sister Naima, if you don't mind, could I
could I just mention one little thing here?
Because what Lauren just explained, just like Lauren,
it reminded me
of a moment in my own teenage years,
when I didn't I wouldn't say I had
the motivation of being looked at by men,
but
I
I had my weak moment where I considered
taking my hijab off. Okay? So this is
me. I was not I was wearing hijabs
since I was 9. I come from a
religious family. My dad is a scholar.
But what happened was I
snuck to
a
shouldn't be telling everyone this.
I snuck out to a, a concert.
Right? My first ever concert.
And I I was wearing hijab
and jeans.
Okay?
And,
I was, like, about 15.
And when
I was I had never experienced a concert
before, so I was just, like, following my
friends.
And when we turned up there and when
I was there in the middle of this
massive field, it was, like, the biggest outdoor
concert in history at that point in time.
And,
I remember
everyone staring at me because
I was the only hijabi there. Right? Obviously.
Like, nobody who has hijab would have been
there. This is in the nineties. Right?
And for a moment,
I I actually thought,
I wish I could just take my hijab
off so that I would just fit in
here. Right? So I think there is also
that aspect of fitting in.
Yes. Even if it's not that you want
male attention in particular or,
you know, I think sometimes That'll be great.
Especially when you're younger, it's it's literally a
case of
I'm tired of not fitting in, you know?
Yeah.
And and and I remember on that day
making the decision that, you know what?
I need to not be in situations where
I get that thought in my head. Right?
I need to not be around the sorts
of people who,
you know, encourage me to have that sort
of thought in my head and for shaitan
to, you know, find a way in.
So, yeah, I just wanted to share that
with you because it just kind of reminded
me as a teenager that
often, you know, it's as simple as that.
It's just as simple as get feeling tired
of the
daily
being different, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No.
I hear that. And I've I've also
had my moments as well when it comes
to the niqab
because, you know, you guys know, like, we
travel a lot and we're here and we're
there and everywhere. And in some places, you
know,
you just don't want people to look at
you anymore. You know? You don't want to
be the one people are staring at. It's
like, no. I wanna stare at you, mate.
You know? Like, I'm in a new country.
I wanna look around and see everything that's
new to me, but every time I meet
someone's gaze, they're looking at me like, what
is this horrific thing? So, obviously, I don't
want to bring the niqab into this conversation
because, you know, it's that's its levels.
But
I hear you on that Fatima, just wanting
to just be quote, unquote, normal. But I
think that you know, I remember my husband
at the time giving me the same advice
as what you said, which is that if
you're in
an environment
or amongst people who make you feel bad
in your Islam,
maybe it's not the Islam that's the problem,
it's not even there's that feeling that's the
problem, you're in the wrong environment.
You're not in an environment that is nurturing
you. Yeah. There's that hadith, isn't there? But,
the a person is on the religion of
their friend. Right?
So the people we surround ourselves with, the
people who we associate with,
they absolutely
have an impact on the way we view
womanhood,
the way we view, you know,
ourselves as as
as Muslims,
all of that, you know. So I think
for our own mental health, for our own
well-being,
we've got to put ourselves in an environment,
have friendships that support
our spirituality, right, rather than,
you know, cause us crises.
Yeah. Yeah. I want to bring in Alisa
now from AOG for a second if that's
okay guys because, she arrived there. Alisa, you
were an Instagram hottie back in the day.
Yes?
So
what what can you speak to that that
that desire to be
seen and liked and get the attention and
then kind of exchanging that for something else.
What what what's your what are your thoughts
on that?
Mhmm. Sorry. Come, everyone. Thanks,
sorry about my connection. I'm currently in Dorset,
so the Wi Fi is not great.
But, hopefully, you can hear me. Yeah. You're
fine.
I don't even know where to begin. For
me, just to give you that some context.
So I come from a Greek family,
and I came to the UK when I
was,
like, 13.
And our family,
the women in our family are very glamorous.
It's even my father, I remember being really
young, he would be like, oh, go and
do your hair. I have to this I'm
30 now. I've never seen my mom, like,
without having her hair done,
without getting up in the morning and doing
her makeup. It was just
normal
for me.
So when I came to the UK, I
was kind of like, okay. Like, where do
I fit in? Because I didn't speak English
at the time.
And I thought,
alright. Like and I come obviously from a
Greek Orthodox family. And if anyone knows Greeks,
like, we're very proud people.
And it kind of comes hand in hand.
Like, if you're Greek, you're Greek Orthodox, you
marry Greek, eat Greek, live and breathe Greek.
And,
well, I've got that.
And,
so when I, kind of started making friends
in the UK,
I realized, you know, this whole big world
of, like, fashion
and,
it although, like, I and I was just
naturally drawn to it as well. So
I remember,
actually, how I came to Islam.
I was,
like, a party girl, really. Like, I would
always
be out in, like, the most trendiest place.
I had a really affluent group of friends
that included, like, a lot of music artists,
a lot of,
footballers.
All of that was just the scene that
I was in.
And,
I started going to, like, clubs and stuff
when I was, like, 14, 15, like, on
a fake ID. Yeah.
And,
it got to the point where, like, I
became really disconnected to my family,
because I just wanted just to live a
glamorous lifestyle by myself without being told
who how I should behave.
So
by,
16, 15, 16, I remember I went to
a nightclub
and there was a girl there. So we're
gonna go like revert story now.
There was a girl there, who was a
bouncer,
Brandon.
And I would go to this particular
event,
maybe,
every, like, 2 months it was on.
And, she came up to me, and I
knew all the security there and everything.
And she said,
oh,
are you Moroccan?
I said no.
But anyway, my whole circle was very,
it was either, like, Caribbean
or
English. There wasn't really anything else in the
mix, so I didn't even know any Muslims.
So I was like, no. I'm not. And
she's like, oh, okay. So we got to
talking and whatever and then,
there was, like, some problem with getting into
the club. So
and it was really late. So this particular
event didn't used to start until maybe 3
AM.
And,
she basically,
was sitting outside and she said to me,
you know,
how,
I think it was Fajid was coming in
then. And,
she goes, oh, I just need to go
and pray.
So I was like, pray?
I said,
what do you mean? I said, can't you
just do it like when you're sitting down?
I don't understand.
And she's like, oh, I'm a Muslim. And
I was like, what is that?
And if anyone knows Greeks, like, they have
a thing about Turkey, you know. They take
you you know?
So I was like, oh, it's those people
kinda thing.
I was like, I don't know any Muslims.
So
long story short, she told me about Islam.
She said, what do I believe in? I
said,
god. But during that whole time,
my whole world was social media. It was
fashion. It was,
like, showing myself, and it was just part
of
my lifestyle.
So I was like, oh, that's I said,
yeah. And she said, well, do you believe?
And I said, oh, I just want god,
to be honest with you.
And she was like, oh, okay. That's what
we believe.
And I was like,
oh really? Like I thought there was like
Muslims believed like in this something else
yeah and
she said, yeah. That's what we believe. So
I said, alright.
So she gave me her telephone number, long
story short. And she said, if you want
and if you've got any questions, you know,
that all, like, Shahadar journey,
give me a call.
So
about a week later,
I was just having some what I would
thought was issues then. Like and,
it was,
it was it's so trivial. I had ordered
a bag,
like, a really expensive bag, and I couldn't
get hold of it. And there was just
some big problems. I was really frustrated.
And I just called her for a chat,
and I said, oh, you know, like, this
is going on in my life. Like, I'm
just fed up. I don't wanna live this
lifestyle anymore.
I don't even know where I'm coming or
going. By this point, I had, like, left
my parents' house, and I was living by
myself, like, really young.
So there was just no
guidance. And,
she was just like, do you know what?
Have you thought about maybe becoming Muslim?
And I was just like,
no.
I said, no. Not really.
I said that would mean I would have
to, like, shut down my,
you know, my whole online presence and my
lifestyle. Because in my head, I just had
it as, like, Muslims are,
like, these boring people, and they don't like
nice things, and
they go and live in mountains. I don't
know. I just had, like, all these different
weird, like,
thoughts of
it. And,
she said to me, like, I'm having sorry.
Let me just reconnect myself here. Having. Yeah.
Yes. There's a couple of days.
Today,
I've had a previous day. Oh, god. Flushing
us now. Yeah. Yeah. It's so close to
happening.
So,
she said to me, okay. Think about it.
So the next day, I don't know what
how it came to me. I just called
her, and I was like I was literally,
my friend was going to, like, a pizza
shop.
And I was on in the car waiting
for her. And I just called her, and
her name was Noor. And I didn't know
what Noor meant then. It means light, you
know, for those who don't
know. And,
I said, I I I'm ready. Like, I
wanna take my shahada.
And,
so I took my Shahada than that. And
Islam to me
was a very private thing for a long
time,
and I didn't share it with anybody so
I continued my lifestyle.
And, it got to the point where I
thought
this, it's like living 2 lives.
It was just, you know, half, like, one
foot in, one foot out. I didn't even
know I had to pray. Back then, there
wasn't, like, this whole big dower scene that
there is now.
And I didn't even know where to go
for information.
So I and I also never got to
speak to her again. I would call her.
Her mobile phone would be off,
and I thought this is weird.
So it led me going back to the
event.
And I remember going to the bouncers and
saying to them,
oh, do you know where Noor is? And
they looked at me like, what?
I was like, yeah. You know, the sister,
she was Pakistani. She had her hair in
a bun.
Like, she had the high vis that you
lot will wear.
And they looked at me and they said,
Alisa,
we've never had a girl bouncer work here.
I was like, what? I was like, I
spoke to her. Like, I've got her telephone
number.
They was like, no. Like, she's never worked
here. To this day, I've never spoken to
her again.
And it was just like
so I just thought to myself, this is
weird. Like, I had a weird experience with
it. So I continued, like, with my online,
like, just my lifestyle and I was working
a very corporate background.
So
it took many years
of, like, dissatisfaction
and just showing myself.
Like, I would go and get my hair
done, blow drys, nails,
eyelashes, you name
it, every single week.
So Let me just jump in for you,
Alisa. Let me just jump in here
because, obviously, you know, it's a it's a
journey, isn't it? Yeah. I'm really interested in
now how long have you been wearing the
niqab pretty much or hijab? Like, how many
years is it? Years.
5 years. So, you know, obviously, you know,
you're online a lot. You know, you you
man manage a lot of clients, etcetera.
What do you think is the you know,
what is the tension for for us in
the way that hijab has become
in terms of an industry and becomes in
terms of branding, etcetera?
Do you see sisters struggling with it, or
do you think that it's it's all good,
it's a natural progression, or do you think
that, you know, we've lost something here?
Yeah.
I think I mean, I could sit here
and talk about this all day long.
It just it definitely is a natural progression
even in myself. You know? I went through
different stages of my Islam. When I put
on my hijab, I was living in Dubai,
and I had made the intention to move
to Dubai to a Muslim country
that had the lifestyle and the hijab.
So
I was like those hijabs with, like, half
my hair showing,
open a buyer. That was the beginning of
my, like, journey,
which what you was calling earlier, Lauren, like,
the
or name. I can't remember who it was.
The Kardashians of, like Kardashians in the hip
hop. Yes. That was, like, my goal. You
know?
See, it's millennials. I'm telling you, man.
I have to put in. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry.
Sorry.
It is and it isn't. And I also
but then I've done, like, a whole 360
because I went down, you know, the road
of
really like, study of Fiqh. I would travel
to all over the world to study with
the ulama.
And
I went the total opposite way where I
would be, like, Haram, police. Like, I'd be
like, oh,
Like, why are you doing that? Why are
you even wearing color?
Like, why are you doing this? And it's
just I lacked so much knowledge, but I
had all the chat.
And,
as I progressed, I remember, like, I would
look at, like, these, fashion hijabis and just
the fashion hijabi industry, And I would be
like, oh, astaghrahlah.
This is the downfall of Islam, and this
is what's gonna happen.
And but
Kind of the end of times, maybe.
Yeah. But I real
my my kind of thinking has changed a
little bit now.
Because
I would say,
although, like okay. I understand, you know,
the whole, like, monetizing the hijab and, like,
creating money from something that should be sacred.
Like, I get all of that. You haven't
even spoken about yet, which was I'm gonna
jump in. I do get it.
But at the same time,
that's how I
put my first foot forward into Islam.
But before that, it was like what Fatima,
touched on earlier, which was,
you know, the intention behind it.
My intention was purely to
start practicing
however that looked like to other people.
So, sister, it's lovely hearing, your voice, Alisa,
and your journey. I wanna jump in here
because Yeah. I've I've got a question,
because that's really interesting. You said that, actually,
that Kardashian
with the hijab was a way into modesty
for you, which is really interesting. It is.
It is. Often we only see it as
a way out. Yeah. I wonder what all
the sisters,
think about that as a way in and
the risks of it being more of a
pull to a way out of,
true modesty of the soul and and away
from our own true ethics, and connectivity with
Allah to Allah. I wonder what you guys
think, especially the designers.
I love that. I'm so sorry. I wanna
bring Imani in. Imani, are you are you
available to come on video? Because I just
wanna bring, you in because I'm aware that
you have not spoken, my dear. And,
I know you have a lot to say
about, you know, in terms of, you know,
hijab and identity. And I remember the first
time that you brought it up, it was
with regards to the whole idea of mainstream
and being acceptable to the mainstream
and and even your your journey with the
hijab as an act of defiance in a
way and and an identity and you staking
your claim
to the identity that your parents fought for.
Like, what what are you what's your take
on all of this? What what do you
think?
I mean, firstly, I think that
a lot of young women are introduced incorrectly
to hijab. It's more of a forced
thing as opposed to something that they can
embrace, meaning
not just continuously stating that it's a commandment
of a law. Right? Okay. Obviously, we know
that. But the same as fasting, the same
with trying to make your salah on time,
the same with everything that we do as
Muslims, Muslims, it is a process. Right? It
is something that we have to have
some
I I wouldn't even wanna say general understanding,
but pretty decent understanding of why it is
that we have to do it. We're human.
Right? And so understanding why it is that
we do certain thing versus just the fact
that we have to do it. You have
to wear your jacket. You have to you
know, someone like me, I'm very much the
the rebellious, well, I'll figure it out on
my own, but I'm not gonna do it
until I I get it figured out.
There are a lot of people that are
very similar. I if I don't have a
full understanding of it,
even saying, I mean, it's not for a
law, but even saying
because a law has commanded it is not
enough sometimes, especially living in a western world,
living in a western society.
And so like I
I strongly believe especially when it comes to
like influencer culture and all of these things,
people have used it as a costume,
not as something
as a declaration of faith or a declaration
of identity. It's a costume. It's a prop.
I'm hijabi this.
I'm hijabi that. No one's ever the Muslim
this, the Muslim that. It's I'm the hijabi
this. It it's almost a way of saying,
like, I have on earrings.
I have on,
bracelets. You know what I mean? It's just
something I can I can take on and
and take off? I can accessorize. It's an
accessory. It's not something
that they have made it apparent to say
this is my identity
as a Muslim. This is my identity
as somebody who says that I believe in
Allah
and his prophets. You know what I mean?
So for me I think firstly it's
ensuring that you know when we step into
the world even though you know I have
a son, I don't have a daughter, but
even him having a better understanding of what
his hijab is, his role as a young
Muslim man, what it is that is prescribed
for him that's not just prescribed to me.
My son's 3 years old he already knows
this hijab, mommy you're gonna put your hijab
on? I can't even go out the house
if like I'm about to open the door
he's like but mommy you're hijab, he's 3
years old. He he has a better understanding
of it because,
you know, he understands that mommy wears her
hijab this way, and I wear my hijab
in in a different way. We also have
to stop
and and eliminate the idea that this is
just the hijab. Right? Because that's that's not
it. Hijab is an embodiment.
Hijab is
how you speak, how you talk to others,
how you treat others, how you behave, how
you
present yourself out into the world. So there's
a whole full embodiment that when people are
pointing themselves, he jabbing this,
it limits, and I and it goes to
Hakima's point of, like,
you know, when they say, oh, Rihanna's wearing
modest fashion. It's like, no. There's a whole
other thing that is beyond what it is
that we call hijab that people are limiting
to just
a cotton or a a chiffon scarf.
For me, you know what I mean? I'm
a black American Muslim woman.
I come from generations of Muslims. I come
from a generation and an ancestry of enslaved
people who had to fight to keep their
Islam. If you go to the African American
History Museum
in Washington DC, you will find dhikr beads
and Quran
written from enslaved people
because they were holding on to their deen,
it's documented that you know enslaved people
would literally fast, but their way of doing
it would be they would receive their food,
and they would give their food to another
slave so that they can continue to fast
during the holy month of Ramadan. My grandparents
my father's parents, they had to go to
court in the 50 to fight for their
names, which was their Islamic identity.
But as black people, black American people, the,
you know, the court is like, how do
you have these names? How do you have
names that are, you know, beyond us? But
that was our identity, so our identity is
very much
revolutionary,
very much resistance, very much,
you know,
anti
western
society
because we've had to
fight to keep it and then we've also
had to,
you know, have to guard ourselves
with people understanding that this is much a
part of our identity as anything else.
So I think also which is unfortunate
is that
a lot of culture
gets pushed before the Islam.
I am
this
and Muslim. I am this and Muslim. The
great thing for me as far as being
a black American person is that my dad
was like that identity is not more important
than you're Islam. You are a Muslim before
you are anything else. And so that was
always my identity. That was always taught to
me as what my identity was. So when
people say, oh, are you black or are
you this or are you that, that was
never important or held any relevance for us
in terms of who it is that we
were because our Islam was supposed to be
the
the preceding thing for everything.
So I think ultimately,
you know,
when we get into culture
and we get cultural norms or we get
into,
you know, in this particular culture and we
intersect that in Islam,
I think that also draws problematic behaviors and
tendencies
and acts of people
saying,
you know, this is Islam when it's not,
it's culture, it's cultural, it's it's something that,
you know, people are using
in in to intermix their Islam, and it
it just doesn't work.
I have I have an issue with the
you know, I remember in the nineties, and
those of you who are around in the
nineties, I'm sure you remember, you know, there
was this whole thing of culture versus Islam.
Who remembers that? Yeah. Those discussions about, you
know, this is culture. This is Islam. You
know, forget the culture. Only
Islam. And I I I
maybe my opinion is unpopular, but I think
that, you know, everyone has a culture.
Everyone has culture. Culture
is human behavior. Right? So even the Instagram
y,
you know, hijabi bloggers, couple goals, you know,
Muslim engagement
photos, this and that and that. It's a
culture
that is being created as we speak. Right?
So,
it you know, the the the the the
it's it's again going back to this issue
of the essence. Right? And, you know, and
again,
us being aware of what's happening
and not just going with the flow,
thinking that, well, you know, like, I'm just
doing my thing. I'm just making my choices.
I'm just doing what I wanna do, not
realizing that there are influences,
that there are pressures, that there are societal
expectations
that are impacting on us.
And if we are not aware of those
pressures and we're not aware of those influences,
then we can be fooled into thinking, I'm
just doing what is what I wanna do,
you know, like, what I'm thinking. I'm independent.
You mentioned about doing okay. Yeah. Sure. Go
for this. Where are you at? Yeah. No.
No. No. I think that that when when
I was reflecting on,
on I'm preparing for this session,
that was a massive one,
that point of you know number 1 you
being an influencer and number 2 you being
a blind follower
and and striving to not be a blind
follower.
And I said this as one of the
reasons why I step back because, you know,
we know, like, the hadiths that speak about,
you know, be peep people who are leaders
are in positions of authority, and that position
of authority or that that can be can
be a a source of of
of disgrace and dishonor for for a leader
who does not lead right on their judgment.
Mhmm. And I think that that also applies
to
influencers because even if you
don't say that you know, because because I
had some arguments like, yeah. I'm I'm I'm
here, but I'm not telling anybody to I'm
not an authority on Hijab. Sis, hold on.
Hold on. Wait. Wait. Sis, you know I'm
sorry, girl. I'm gonna call it out. That
is just completely disingenuous, guys. Like, that's just
complete somebody who says that is being completely
dishonest because you know that when you put
that hijab on and you said it's 599
from my website,
your intention was to influence people to go
and buy the hijab or to buy whatever
brand is sponsoring You're in that community Oh,
come on. Of Muslim. So and you and
people say this. People say that, you know,
yes, I have, you know a 100,000
fans or a 1000000 fans and whatnot but
I I'm an authority so if I do
something I'm not telling people to follow me
and so I you know, they try and
resolve themselves of responsibility.
And I think that Islam is beautiful and
it's such a balanced
way of
life. You as a leader, you have responsibility.
That's it. You as an influencer, you have
responsibilities. And then you as a fan
also have responsibility.
Bring it. And you have to you cannot
the same way even when it comes to
scholars.
You your excuses, if you are not able
like, you know, for instance, the old lady
who is in the village and, you know,
that that island is the only one who
she has access to.
But look at the life, the world that
we're in now. You cannot.
You don't have any excuse to say that
you you you don't know what's right and
what's wrong. Yeah. And you're gonna follow someone
blindly and let them lead you astray.
So even if something quickly? Yes. That's fine.
It's very important for us to
It is. And I think it comes down
to just also your core
principles
and your core values as a person.
Although I personally had a social media following,
I never shared
my face.
I never shared,
me overly exposed,
and that's just my core principles.
So then when I started studying Islam,
I realized that this is some this is
something that's come to make
me even better than what my core values
were.
And it begins with renewing your intention.
You know?
My example, like, I gave up a very
successful career
purely
because I thought when I put on the
hijab, no one was going to accept me.
Okay?
But I thought to myself, do you know
what?
I'm doing this for the sake of Allah.
Okay?
And whatever comes comes.
Whatever doesn't wasn't written for me. And now
it's like I have multimillion
pound business,
and I kept my hijab on. So when
I do have those moments where I think,
maybe I'm gonna take it off, it's the
guilt inside of me that thinks Allah has
blessed me with so much.
Why
why can't I just do this one thing
for him? You know? So we can go
back and forth about, like, you know, the
fashion industry and stuff like that. But I've
met a lot of fashion industry
clients of ours, both in the Muslim world
and non Muslim world,
and
it always just comes down to their core
values and their core principles.
On that on that note, Sis, I think
that when it comes to the intention,
we have to be honest with ourselves. Yeah.
So that in this age of Instagram, I'm
not even gonna say social media. Instagram in
particular
Mhmm. It's the likes, it's the following, it's
the vanity, it's the quest for fame.
That is driving
so many people.
Mhmm. That is driving so many people. The
numbers. The people that are trying to, you
know, do
wholesome clothing,
they're not getting, you know, 10,000, 20,000, 50,000
followers.
Mhmm. It's those people that are doing Kim
Kardashian hijab. And so those are the things
that are driving people and then the younger
sisters coming up, so many younger sisters coming
up and this I hope that we get
we get a chance to talk about this.
This
genuinely bothers me. I see if you do
a poll of our young sisters,
what is your ideal business or career? Everyone
would say fashion designer, model.
That's scary to me.
And that's also one thing that made me
shift. And I, you know, I said that
if I cannot be,
Inaya or Moderniza,
I'm shifting out of this space. What value
are you actually bringing? You see so many
people who want to be fashion designers? They're
not gonna go to fashion school Are you
gonna go to fashion school for 3 years
and invest in that? You're just gonna pick
up a sewing machine and say, yeah, boom.
I'm a fashion designer It's like an easy
way out for people. And for me, that's
so scary for me. And whenever I heard
the hadith,
of how, you know, how Shaitan gets the
believers,
like, Shaitan has all his tactics. So he's
not gonna use something that is haram to
catch you. He's gonna use something that's halal
and then put all the stuff around it
that's gonna lead you astray. So it's so
important. Sisters that are listening to this, if
you don't take anything away from this, if
you only take that, let me go back
and reassess my intention.
If that's the only thing that you take
away and you're constantly asking yourself, what is
the essence of what I'm doing?
What is my intention behind it? Is it
in alignment with my the purpose of my
creation and,
striving to please Allah and attain the hereafter?
If you keep asking yourself these questions and
you're honest with yourselves,
it's not rocket science.
Mhmm. And is that the core as well
Seeking knowledge.
Like, if you are a business person who
is a Muslim,
it's wajib for you to seek knowledge. Do
you understand what the step of transaction is?
What does the Quran and Sunnah say? You
know? It's all well and good, having,
these,
hijabi businesses
and fashion and whatever other industry, but
what is the core of what you believe?
You know? I think Miss, and sisters, if
you if you don't mind, I wanted to
bring in bring up,
2 2 topics here, which I think are
really important in discussing this.
One is
the whole idea of,
hijab, remembering that, you know, anything that is
a command from Allah is our fitra. You
know, sometimes when we talk about hijab,
we talk about it as if it's like
this
yoke around our necks. Right? Like this like
this very painful, difficult thing.
But
actually, it's because
women
all over the world are constantly being manipulated,
bombarded
with images. You know, there's this book, I
think it's called The Beauty Myth, how how
images
are of,
forgotten the name of the book, but it's
basically how imagery is used against women.
Images of women are used against us, you
know.
I think we have to realize that there
there is this big
onslaught.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm. There's this onslaught against
us,
against women
in all over the world. Right?
Of this constant, like, this idea that we
have to fit a certain mold. We have
to we have to be
desirable to men. I mean, I remember
you know, Rose McGowan, the lady,
the Hollywood actress who one of the key
people who, you know,
exposed
Harvey Weinstein and the whole kind of,
me too movement.
She said she shaved her hair off. Right?
And I remember in an interview, they asked
her, you know, why did you shave your
hair off? She said,
because when I came to Hollywood, the first
thing they said to me was I have
to grow my hair
because if men don't want to and she
used a expletive. Right?
If they don't wanna
something me, then nobody's gonna want me in
a movie. Right? Wow.
And she said that her hair has always
been in Hollywood, her hair was always a
symbol of
men's her desirability
towards men. So in a way,
women all over the world, I would say,
are groomed.
Yeah. I think I I would say Muslim
women, Muslim girls are also being groomed
Mhmm. To being
excellent consumers,
to being, in
what's that word? You know,
insecure. You're when you're insecure, you buy more
stuff. Right?
The women's creams are more expensive than anything
that you'd buy for a man. Women's haircuts
are more expensive than men's. Women's clothes Yeah.
Are more so we we women,
whether we're Muslim or not, are seen as
an industry. Okay? And the the aspect of
this that troubles me the most
is that Muslim women who are kind of
more used to be, always think we were,
more awake to these influences and these kind
of this manipulation
and grooming,
it feels as though, unfortunately,
we're becoming more susceptible to it as well.
And I think this
this is all under the kind
of the backdrop of the history.
Now I I really wanna bring this in
because this is really important.
Because I want us as Muslim women to
realize that we'd be that all of this
is a type of manipulation.
Whenever,
people colonized Muslim lands. Okay?
Whenever Muslim lands were colonized, the Muslim people
were colonized.
Muslim women were seen
as a key symbol
of how subservient that society had become
to the colonizers.
Okay?
Read about Algeria. Read Frantz Fanon and, you
know, what happened in Algeria. SubhanAllah.
There was a campaign.
Right? And this is this is one example
that I know about, but I'm sure it
happened all over the place. Right?
There was a there was a concerted effort
to get the women of Algeria to stop
wearing
veils, to stop veiling, to start dressing like
French women. Right? Mhmm.
And I'm talking about adverts. There were adverts.
There were, you know,
women who would unveil, were given
certain privileges and positions and and even their
husbands were encouraged as well to encourage their
wives to stop veiling because the hijab is
seen as a symbol of our adherence to
Islam,
whether we like it or not. Okay? And
I'm not saying that somebody who doesn't wear
hijab
cannot be a religious person. You know,
we all have things that we might be
falling short in and maybe she's a great,
you know, worshipper of Allah in other ways.
But at the end of the day, because
it's a command of Allah,
it is seen as a symbol of our
level of adherence.
K? And the colonizers
the world over saw it as a symbol
of adherence.
And when they saw Muslim women stopping
had stopped wearing hijab, that was seen as
a victory. That was seen as a victory.
And I think we
are we are really, like,
naive if we don't realize that. Right? And
I I feel that that whole kind of,
I would say, cynical
aspect of capitalism, etcetera, has is trying to
infiltrate
us now, you know, and that's exactly what's
happening. Because
this whole narrative this whole narrative that some
of the,
influencers who stopped wearing hijab or and their
followers, etcetera, some this whole narrative of this
is my truth Yeah. Right,
Is basically
I wanna follow my desires,
right,
and and I am worshiping myself now. I'm
not saying that they're they're saying that, but
that's what that narrative means. When you say
that I I should be able to do
whatever I want, that is individualism
on a plate, you know.
Rather than saying that, you
know, SubhanAllah,
I I understand that, you know, people are
on a journey, people,
we we all No. You know you know
what, Sis? I I really feel like you
don't need to give a disclaimer. I think
Yeah. You know, everybody is gonna do it.
About. Lauren wants to jump in here. Go
ahead.
So I just wanna say thanks,
Sheha Fatima,
you know, for that fantastic roundup of the
pressure that's been put on Muslim women, and
that what we're not seeing beyond the boundaries
of our Instagram feed is that there are
deliberate pressures Yeah. To weaken us because in
Algeria, which, Sheikha was talking about,
there was a letter sent from the,
one of the the magistrates
or the commanders of,
Algiers at the time to Paris saying, if
we wanna break this society, we have to
get the women out of the house and
out of hijab,
and then the men will follow, and the
women will be accessible to us.
The women will be accessible to us French.
Now when we come when we are fed,
when our nafs are fed,
this these kind of phrases
which you you touched upon, Sheikha.
I just being authentic.
Okay? You know, I really just wanna be
about me and my choice, and that's why
now, sorry, I've sold you £1,000,000
worth or £10,000,000
worth of hijabs,
but my journey is now somewhere else. And
then everybody goes, woah. Well, you are my
journey. Right?
Where is where is their narrative coming from?
It's coming from capitalism.
It's coming from branding, and it's coming from
a society
that does not want strongly independent women.
And when we wear hijab, and this goes
back to what sister Imani was saying, we
will wear it as an it's an act
of resistance.
And what are we resisting?
Not the good things in whatever society we
live in. Not integration. Not being apart because
we're mothers at the school gates. We're on
school boards. We're nurses and doctors and and
legal teams. Right? But we are resisting
an unethical
drip drip
of our of our self esteem,
privacy,
and our deen.
Suparna.
Suparna. Yes, Hakima. Jump in.
So I I wanted to jump in because,
what sister Fatima was mentioning,
I think is is is very on point.
And I mentioned it a couple, about a
week ago when I did a live,
and we were talking about white supremacy in
modest fashion. Yes. And what we talked about
there was the fact that
modest fashion
as an industry, you know, starting back maybe
around we'll say 2010 as an average,
it's relatively new.
A new niche in fashion, but it's not
new to us, of course. But a new
niche in fashion as opposed as it relates
to,
like, commercializing
the process. Right?
And mainstreaming as well.
Yeah. And so and so what I talked
about was the fact that we brought those
values or those
biases in that in that,
in that life where I talked about racial
disparities,
we brought those
into this new space and then we became
shocked
that they exist here.
So when we see when when I was
analyzing the numbers of of who's the top
bloggers,
who's,
represented the most, you know, when when some
mainstream
magazine looks for those top girls,
they see white skin when they see when
they're looking for top girls because the top
girls look like the top women in society.
It's reflected.
Yeah. So even though this was a new
space, we could have brought Islamic values, anti
racist values, anti capitalistic values, all of those
types of sisterhood. Remember when the sisterhood was
there at the beginning and now how it's
depleted?
Those types of things have depleted over time
because we're just showing
the values that were there from the very
beginning. So when
so when I mentioned that it's a microcosm,
it's just a reflection of the broader society.
And as Muslims,
one of the things that we are supposed
to value is to be strange, is to
is to look different. Right? And hijab is
one of the things that make us distinguish.
And I think one of the problems with
normalizing hijab
is the fact that we no longer want
to,
claim this as, like, something that is different
about us and also great about us. It's
like it's different and bad. We want to
make it look the same as everybody else.
And I think that one of and and
and it's really sad that some of these
dynamics in social media and particularly Instagram,
it has brought it has taken away sisters
who, as Zahra explained,
don't want to
have their space infiltrated with things like,
sexualizing hijab and things like that. And so
they just decide to just leave and that
and that's fine because that's your self care.
Right? You want to stand on the day
of judgment being completely sure that what you
did in your life,
is something that Allah might have mercy on
you for.
But also one of the things that I
have been
all again, always thinking about as I've been
in this for about 10 years is that
if we all move away from this space
due to things that we don't agree with
it, such as sexualizing the hijab
or,
or racial disparities and things like that, unfair
behavior, lack of sisterhood, you know, savagery in
terms of business practices,
then then who will be left? The space
will look like the people we ran away
from. So,
so one of the reasons why I stay
is because I I try to keep my
lane.
I try my best to keep my lane
because
I think it's important that when those young
people come to Instagram, because they will. They'll
go to TikTok and they'll go to Instagram,
and there'll be another app in the future,
and they'll go there.
And and there'll be that that social media
dynamic there. And if there if the only
ones that are left there are the ones
who do the behavior that we we that
we wouldn't agree with, then who who would
be their example?
Yeah. You know, it would be left to
the to to influencers
who don't claim responsibility.
Right? It no. There would be no influencers
left who actually feel a sense of responsibility.
And so someone like me, Insha'Allah, may Allah
keep me on the straight path, I wouldn't
go to my Instagram, rip off my hijab
and then say it's my, you know, it's
my it's this is my own thing. I'm
not influencing anybody towards this.
I I think that that's very problematic. But
one more thing I wanted to mention
is that one of the reasons why
we,
get very worked up about hijab, when we
do see, like, the Kim Kardashian hijab that,
sister Lauren mentioned.
We get worked up about it because I
believe we it it seems like an insult
to, like, the integrity of our of our
religion. We know how sacred these things are.
We know that, you know, there are certain
boundaries that maybe as individuals, we wouldn't cross
those, those boundaries, or we perceive boundaries
at a certain place where other people don't
perceive those values or those, those boundaries.
And so the integrity of what we think
Islam should look like is kind of compromised
when you see when you see that. And
it it might be it might come off
as, you know, just hurtful to yourself, but
it also might come off as judgment. Because
when you I remember when you mentioned,
the fact that, you know, when you see
improper hijab,
then you might align that with Kim Kardashian
type of hijab. But
also it's a journey it's sometimes it is
the journey towards a better look a more
covered hijab as well. Because I I know
I have a friend who,
she didn't wear hijab.
She's been Muslim, didn't wear hijab for most
of her adult years. And when the turban
style came out, she figured this is her
step in to wearing hijab. So but when
you but when you just see sorry. Just
when you see that one that one woman
walking down the street and she's wearing a
turban and maybe some of her hair is
out and her neck is out, and you
think of her as,
she's one of the people that is like,
ruining this image of hijab for us. You
don't know what her personal
her personal life is like because you only
saw her in a snapshot shot. Go ahead.
You know, I just wanted to jump in
there and just say, you know, I was
speaking about this. Thank you so much for
that, Hakim. It's, you know, so important for
us to get, you know, those perspectives. And
and again, you
know, maybe we should all leave social media
for our own mental health. Right? But like
you said, if you did,
you know, then there would be only those
ones left. Right? And I think the the
the the whole idea of of hijab, I
think
the biggest issue is that
it's an outward thing
that is supposed to mirror an inward state.
Right?
That is not always the case as we
know. There are people with pure hearts who,
for whatever reason, don't wear hijab. There are
people who wear hijab, who have many sicknesses
and diseases within. Maybe we are amongst them.
May Allah forgive us and make us better.
Ameen.
But, again, when you're doing something outwardly,
there's always the issue of intention.
There is always the issue of judgment.
There is always the issue of the image
that you are portraying.
And
it seems to me that I mean, for
me, I I, you know, I I don't
think
we know what hijab is.
We know what the deen is. We know
what
Allah wants from us, and we know the
sunnah of the prophet So
as far as I'm concerned, nobody can kind
of can can can change that for us
because we know and we have our sources.
We have our texts still in place,
No matter what Instagram says, we can always
go back to the truth. I mean, we
can always go back to the source and
go back to the knowledge and know exactly
are we doing things the way Allah
wants, or are we on our desires? And
before I I hand over and we open
up for q and a,
I'd love now I can't remember who mentioned
the issue of my truth. I think it
was, sister Fatima and sister Lauren.
And I think,
you know, we definitely
need to be careful
in our journey to finding our path and
our authentic selves, which most of us are
on. Right?
We need to be really careful because
I have caught myself and I have seen
people saying
this is the real me.
You know?
Before, when I dressed like this and I
didn't do this and I didn't do that,
I was doing what I thought I had
to do. But now this is the real
me. I'm being true to myself.
I'm living my truth. You see? Just exactly
those words that you mentioned, sis. Right?
And the trouble is
yourself
is your naps.
Exactly.
Yourself
is your naps,
and our nuffs is not our friend. You
know, like, our nuffs is not the pure
essence of who we are. Our nuffs is
our desires. Right? And so if I am
and and this is for anybody who's listening
to this,
and and maybe has kind of heard some
of this type of of of of languaging
and has thought, well, that makes sense. You
know, you must be authentic and live your
truth and be true to yourself.
Right? But the issue is is if if
my true self
is something that Allah
is not pleased with,
Am I okay with that?
Like, am I cool with well, at the
end of the day, this is me. Like,
do you know what I'm saying? Like, yeah.
You know what? I like a drink.
That's me being authentic. That's me being real.
I like going to the club. I like
man. That's me being real. That's me being
authentic. That's me being true to myself. Right?
I don't think we would ever do that
because it's very clear at that stage that
now you are upon your desires. Right? You
you're you're not caring about
what Allah wants from us. Certainly, the the
yawmulkayama
is a very, very distant thing, and we're
not even thinking about the things we're supposed
to think about, which is, you know, our
end, our return to our lord, and what
we were put on this earth to do,
which is to worship Allah.
And I think when we strip back the
layers of all of this talk and the
the capitalism, the materialism, the identity politics, the
third culture,
the, you know, the the personal struggles, the
journeys, and everything, it comes down to this.
What did Allah create us for,
and are we doing that to the best
of our ability hand on heart?
Because that's that's all that matters at the
end of the day. What you tell your
followers, that's your business. What you tell your
family, that's your business because Allah knows. And
that's that is the the one being you
will never be able to create a good
caption or use the right language to try
and kind of cover up what's really going
on inside is before Allah.
So it goes back to that sincerity Inshallah.
May Allah make us all steadfast
and and and and strong and striving
because that's the whole point of it being
a journey.
It's not
a resting place. It's not the end. It's
a journey which should be continuing. I believe
it was, Imam, Ibn al Qayyim and Jawzia
who said I think it was Ibn al
Qayyim and Jawzia. Please correct me if I'm
wrong. But who said that the believer is
never standing still.
He is either
moving forward or he's moving back. So if
we're not making efforts to move forward, if
we're not purifying our intention, if we're not
trying to increase in Ibadan, increase in knowledge,
purify ourselves, make tauba,
you know, work on ourselves.
We we're not standing still. We may think
we're stagnating, but we're not. We're actually sinking.
We're actually going backwards. Yeah. So may Allah
protect us and and in every way and
and and, you know, save I have a
question.
I have a question, Naima. Yeah. Everyone.
Looking to the next generation. Right? So I
have a daughter. She's 9 years old.
I I really want us to
think about as mothers, you know, and as
influencers of the next generation,
how can we
raise the integration of what I would call
women of substance,
you know? I I want my daughter to
be a woman of substance. I don't want
her to be a play
thing in the hands of
corporations,
in the hands of men, or in the
hands of, you know,
the male gaze or whatever it is. Right?
I don't want her to be
easily manipulated.
And I'm thinking my instinct is
that
the thing I need to pour into her
the most
is to help her to strengthen her relationship
with Allah
because
then
everything else should
hopefully, you know, because
I just think, you know, when I when
I was first introduced to hijab and when
I was first introduced to him and jilbab,
the thing that made me accept it is
seeing it in black and white that Allah,
my creator,
who I consider to be the one who,
you
know, gave me everything and who I loved,
had told me to do this. And I
know that sounds very simple, but
I I would credit that to my mom,
you know, that she she really like made
me feel like how can I disobey Allah?
How could I? Why would I do that?
You know,
and I really,
I'm just asking what you think, you know,
about how we can create that same
or even better connection with Allah in the
next generation such that
all of these influences and pressures
can't break through
so easily, you know.
Sheikha Fatima, I'd love to, I'd love to
to jump in on that one because you
posed a really, really good question there. Right?
Which is how are we gonna bring up,
a strong,
you know, Islamically
minded
but independent
from
from NASA's society's pulse, next generation of women,
when what we visibly are,
right,
is so important to everybody else. It's become
everybody else's business. Yes. And I think
and I think within that, what we haven't
touched so far is the sticky question of
the the the the halal police,
who can be as damaging
as the Haram police. Right? So we so
on the one hand, we've got those who
are like you know, why do women jump
off the hijab when they've got a brand?
Because they'll get 2,000,000 likes in 24 hours.
And at some point in the back of
our brain,
unfortunately,
that serotonin
hit, we've all talked about Instagram here.
I remember a very famous singer who, gave
a talk about Palestine.
She's one of the global top 5, by
the way. And then she rolled back on
her statement about Palestine, and I asked her
best friend why. She said she lost a
1,000 followers on Facebook. This was 10 years
ago. She had 3,000,000 followers,
which was huge at that time, but a
1,000 was like, nobody loves me anymore.
So,
you know, there there's this double pull. There's
the pull of you'll get so much more
out of gunia and so much more mainstream
attention. And on the other hand, there's the
men who want to police us. So suddenly,
it's all about the externals, and I'm going
to to to to to move on and
let you guys jump back in with this.
What do we do when no one is
watching
is is is what we say to our
to our young. Right? It's that story of
the little boy who was told, don't eat
the ice cream, and so he goes into
a cupboard, you know, and he eats the
ice cream. And it's like, well, no one
could see me, but Allah can see you.
Okay. So what would we wear when no
one's watching? If if Instagram doesn't exist,
if if these likes don't exist,
who are we before Allah when no one
watches?
Yeah. And I think can I can I
I think that speaks to the the
the inauthenticity
of Instagram in and of itself because it
is just a a snapshot of
a highlight reel, as people say, of whatever
you want to
curate as an image for yourself online?
And,
and when we when we think about the,
like, the tenants of Islam
and this idea of taqwa
and worshiping Allah, you know, as if you
see him, but know that he
even though you cannot see him, know that
he sees you and that he's the all
hearing and the all seeing,
I I I think that true authenticity would
be that if you if you did have
a highlight reel, it would also reflect what
your what your your day to day is
as well.
Not necessarily,
you know, in any other context, but what
we're talking about here is was which is
hijab. You know, if you if you wear
your hijab,
in a certain way, then
shouldn't that be reflected on in your own
mind? And I and I think that there's
something to be said, and I'm not. I
hope this doesn't come off in any way
that I don't intend. I think it's something
to be said about those who do take
remove their hijab because of their whatever is
happening within within them.
And then they do come on
their Instagram
and say, I've removed it. Right? Because there's
been so many times when people explain
that,
that they'll they're they're taking it off off
screen and then they're putting it on on
screen. Right? So I would rather know Yeah.
That this is what what's happening with you.
Although the effect of that, the effect of
the removal and and the some some of
the excuses that people give or the reasons
that people give is it is it can
be very damaging. Right? So we've already talked
about the responsibility
of that. But there is something to be
said about that authenticity because,
you know, off screen, if I was wearing,
you know, something completely different than what I'm
wearing on screen,
it wouldn't be authentic to myself and probably
give me some kind of, you know, anxiety
about that or whatever. But also, it's not
it's not authentic in front of Allah. You
know? Allah is the one that knows what
you do on and off screen as well.
Can I can I just step in there?
Because
I've heard this argument a lot. Okay? Like,
I I actually saw a brother online bullying
a sister
who in in,
in private or in normal life doesn't wear
hijab, but on television, she does. Okay? She
wears hijab in television. She's a journalist,
or she did weigh a job.
And,
because he knows her privately from work
and she doesn't normally weigh Jabber, he was
literally saying to her, you know, you're you're
inauthentic. Right? He he was considering her inauthentic
and
but let me tell you something that this
is something that some of the shiyuk has
said to us.
It's better that a person has the shame.
Yeah?
That has the has the basic sense of
shame to not sin in public. Yeah? Mhmm.
Than to,
feel that let me just let it all
hang out, you know, in public. Yeah. That
concept is not that
concept is not Islamic. Right? So I don't
wear niqab, for for example.
Right? I don't wear niqab,
on the streets. Okay?
But my husband would like me to wear
niqab when I'm, you know, on social media
and when I'm in in public spaces. Okay?
In certain public spaces. And so I do.
Now I don't feel inauthentic about that. No.
Because
I I guess the niqab is a different
thing, you know, especially if you don't consider
it to be obligatory.
But
the same thing with hijab, even if a
sister wears it part time, right,
or she has the decency to wear it
in certain settings and not in other, I
don't think we we don't want to perpetuate
this narrative
that it's somehow being
better or more authentic
to remove it or to tell everyone that
you've removed it. That's not true. Even if
she's a part time hijabi.
Right? Allow her to be a part time
hijabi.
So, okay, it means that it means that
the person has a sense of decorum and
a certain sense of shame. Right? Just as
I would not tell you the sin that
I committed
in private the other day. Right? I'm not
gonna tell you that. That doesn't mean I'm
being inauthentic.
You know? I'm I'm supposed to hide my
sins
Yeah. In the same way, I want
us to change that narrative because I've heard
that a lot. I've heard people say that
a lot, you know, to to sisters who
don't,
necessarily
wear hijab
all the time.
They say to them and they kind of
almost like
almost like,
bully them and shaming them. They're shaming them.
They're shaming them. Shame them into stopping.
I mean, it's all Allah. What's better that
she wears it sometimes, or that she she
lets go of it completely, you know? And
and that sister who's a journalist, she actually
gave it up completely eventually,
you know? Mhmm. At least she used to
wear it on the telly, you know? But
Yeah. How do you Well, I think the
difference here is that from what I'm hearing
of what people how people explain the reason
why they remove remove their hijab when they
do give explanations.
It's that,
you know,
that shame is no longer there. Right? And
and it and and it's
it's not coming from a place of,
this is a commandment from Allah. I want
to do this because
it is gonna be recorded as some of
my good deeds.
It's not coming from that place. Right. Right?
I'm not I'm not saying that
So so if if there was still shame
there, then I think it wouldn't have come
off. Do you see what I'm saying? So
if so so the same with the same
the same as you,
where I I used to wear a niqab
sometimes.
Right? It was a sometimes kinda thing. Just
like for for a lot of people, niqab
is sometimes kinda thing.
And when it started to feel as if
I'm not wearing this, even on those occasions,
for the right reason,
then
I'm and if I'm wearing it to please
the creation as opposed to the creator,
then I'd rather not do it until I
get to the point when I can do
it for the right reasons. And that's why
I think the authenticity is. It's not that,
Oh, I no longer have the shame
to wear it part time. And so I'm
going to show my lack of shame. It's
just,
I think the intention where
it's it's rooted in this is a part
of my Islam, it's no longer there.
And so that's where, that's where I mean
to say that I'd rather I'd rather know
that that's what the that that that's that's
their part that's where they are in their
life than to not know,
as if it comes from that from that
from that
that Can I jump I can I can
I jump in? I'm just gonna make one
one quick, off the back of both,
Sheikha Fatima and, Hakima. I get where you're
calling from, Hakima, and I agreed with you.
In that,
it's the
boastfulness
of the of the matching
of the external with the private. Yeah? So
it's not like I've taken off the hijab
now,
and I'm really I'm sorry about that. It's
painful for me. It's I'm liberated, guys. Join
me. Yeah. Show me on this new journey
of freedom. Come with me. I feel so
great. Watch me snowboarding and watch me surfing.
And here I am with with all my
my my makeup and my plunging necklines.
It's it's the taking people with you. Do
you see what I'm saying?
I think danger. Yeah. I agree with you.
And I think I think as well,
this speaks to what Hakim was saying, and
I guess the tension between what you're looking
for, which is the authenticity,
and what, you know, sister Fatima is saying
about the, no. Have some shame about yourself.
Like, you're doing wrong. Like, why are you
doing it in public? You're supposed to cover
yourself.
It is the whole thing of Instagram
purports
to be an authentic platform.
It purports to be a place of authenticity,
but it is not a place of authenticity.
It is a curated feed. It is a
curated narrative.
And so
even that, like but I want them to
be authentic with me. They're not being authentic
anyway. None of us are. You know what
I'm saying? Like, we are playing the rules
of the platform.
We're playing by the rules of the platform.
So in a way, I feel like,
you know,
I I think I think we drank the
Kool Aid, guys. That's what I think. I
think we have drunk the Kool Aid, and
I'm saying this. You guys know I'm on
the social media. I've been on Instagram since
the beginning,
but I have to say
we have dropped the Kool Aid because we
we we we've we've bought into
the narrative. We've bought into the platform. We've
invested in these platforms.
Problematic. That's the thing.
Mhmm. And it's like like what you said,
sis, about the fashion industry.
Yes. There would be some people who are
people too. Create a business, create a brand,
create something. Maybe the clothing,
is is ethical. It's wholesome and everything. But
the platform
that is is is is toxic. Like, the
actual foundation
of the industry
is problematic.
And Have we both got Instagram? Is that
possible? Because I know that we all kind
of, at different points in time, go on
Instagram fast because it's just essential.
But do we actually feel that as a
community we can boycott
Instagram? No. No one is saying that. No.
No one is saying No. No. No. I'm
not saying I'm I'm I'm saying that can
we, like, as a
as a liberation as a form of liberation.
Can we? Can we? Because so many of
us how many of us here go on
Instagram fast? So many of us because it
does affect our mental health and our balance
and our grounding. Just can we think
I think one one aspect
of the solution. Whenever
any of us are using any platform or
any like, just her sister
I believe,
the Greek sister.
I forgot her name. Sorry. Yeah. I think
she called me. Yeah.
She said, you know, like, when you're venturing
into a space like Instagram or anywhere,
and there are doubtful matters,
I think this is where it's really important
for us to stay connected with our scholars
of Islam. You know?
And that's because
there it isn't black and white. You know?
There there are gray areas. I've got brothers
who encourage me to go on Instagram because
they say, you know,
we'll we need the young we need the
sisters to have these voices as well. Right?
They need to hear from you. They need
to hear,
see role models, whatever, etcetera. Right?
But I feel that it's really important that
anytime we're about to venture into a new
space or do something a little bit
gray area, I would say, it's important for
us to stay grounded and stay connected with
our scholars.
And, one one thing that I really wanted
to, mention is that
I would love for, you know, this natural
desire that we have as women to be
admired,
to be beautiful,
to dress up, to be sexy, all of
those types of things. Okay? I would love
for us to somehow
reclaim that
in the private space again. You know? Mhmm.
I I don't I don't really know how
to express it, but what what I'm I
think what I'm getting at is,
you know,
they used to be and there is supposed
to be
a separation
between the public and the private.
Right? And it's and it's because those lines
have suddenly become so blurred
and people want both in the same space.
Right?
That it's it's it's as if we're not
getting the joy out of either of them,
you know? Alexis, you know what? Can I
just jump in there? Because I just want
to say the
camera phone
has
impacted
on private Muslim women's spaces in a way.
Because there was a time when women could
come together. It could be a really large
gathering, and people could take off their hijab,
and it was no big deal. Right? Then
in the late nineties, that really shifted because
people started taking pictures,
started filming things. And then when, of course,
you have social media, people wanna go on
live. They wanna, you know, go on live
with their friends.
So even within,
like, private women's spaces,
they're not really safe spaces for us anymore
in the sense that if you do have
if you do not want to be seen
on social media without your hijab, you need
to think twice before taking your hijab off
in a public space because everyone's got their
phones out. And Mhmm. You know, I just
want it just reminded me of that because
it is something that is is yeah. It's
kind of like dying out. But somebody mentioned
in the chat actually,
about reclaiming
those
women's gatherings where we are able to be
away from the male gaze,
free and happy and enjoying ourselves and just
like living our best life without the need
to perform for an audience,
without the need to show, look what a
good time I'm having. You know what I'm
saying? Without the need for it to be
something that you upload to the gram. I
don't know. I don't know whether you guys,
you know, feel feel that that
And and that's exactly what I what I
was speaking of when I when I mentioned
the fact that I stopped doing DC Fashion
Week because
that that space was just becoming so
kind of corrupted by other people's values that
I I couldn't really have my own authentic
experience there. So I had to kind of
just say, even if there's just one event
that is for Muslim women, by a Muslim
woman, then that's where I will be. And,
and unfortunately,
even, I don't know how it how it
happens over in the UK, but
sometimes even here in America when they had
they have an all women event, they'll have
a male
something, some kind of service provider. He'll be
the one that's like security, opening the door,
or like, I don't know, just like making
sure of something in that space. And I'm
like, why can't Muslim women also be the
ones that's serving the food, that's making the
food, that's doing the the hosting, that's doing
the whatever, the DJing or whatever, if you
have music at the event or whatever, you
know, like, how can it be just fully
all Muslim women so that we can take
off our hijabs and there's no phone, and
we can, we can do our fashion shows,
we can do our businesses, we can do
our vending, and do all of that and
get that energy out. Yes. I think we
definitely need that. And that's very rare and
far in between. Yeah. Because we don't we
don't wanna portray this subject as being, like,
you know, there's the hijabis, the austere kind
of yanny way of being a woman, and
then there's, like, the the women who are
having the fun. It's it's not like that.
You know, it's never been like that. I
think
I I feel like we've forgotten who we
are and and how we used to have
fun, you know, and the halal way to
do it and the fact that Allah doesn't
forbid us from those fun and halal things,
right?
I think that's it's really important for us
to to highlight that because when we talk
about fashion, sometimes we talk about it as
a bad word now. But actually,
fashion is fine as long as it's in
the right space. Right? You know? The the
whole problem is that it's not being done
in the right space.
And not that fashion, makeup, and all these
things are evils in and of themselves.
It's the way they're being used.
So, I mean, like, personally I was really
happy when those shops started opening up with
the jilababs and the hijabs and
because I used to sew my own, you
know, that was a that was a drag,
you know. I used to I used to
sit with my mom and we used to
sew, do the bobs, and we do. So
so so there was an aspect of the
so called modest fashion industry that was a
blessing. Right?
And I don't want us to kind of
forget that. You know? I was so happy
there were different
colors and different kind of
shapes and sizes available, you know, and and
as a Muslim, you could just go buy
it rather than having to sit there sewing
it yourself.
But I think as with everything,
there's a balance and then it's very easy
for something that that is pure and good
to then
be manipulated, taken advantage of, and tip in
the wrong direction. So,
yeah, I think that's what we're all kind
of struggling with, I guess. Marshall, I love
that, Sherpa. And I just want to add,
if I can, that what we seem to
be coming to here is a kind of
a a kind of, a mutuality and agreement
that hijab
can be easier for everyone if there are
zones.
If we go back to this idea of
zoning,
the private and the public,
the spaces where we get I mean, anybody
who's had teenage daughters, and we were talking,
sister Fatima, about raising,
you know, strong independent
young women,
close to Allah to Allah is making sure
that they have, you know, maybe a Saturday
night where the girlies can do their their
dressing up stuff that we that we allow
them the space to do that that isn't
in the public. You say, you've got your
public face on your Instagram and it's work
and it's professional
and it's and it's clean and plain. And
then there's this beautiful space where you get
to do all all all of that stuff,
but don't try and mix the both. What
do we think, guys?
Beautiful. Yeah. I love that. And another thing
that jumped into my head thinking this is
I really think that we should
create you know, we have so
many skills in the community,
and I know that
I feel like we should create, like, some
kind of training program
for young Muslim girls.
Not the usual stuff that they have in
madrasa,
but things like what sister Fatima mentioned about
the beauty myth. Because how many how many
teenagers in the world have read Naomi Wolf?
Very few.
Yeah? How many would actually be able
to, you know, to kind of to to
even think that they like I said, there's
more at play here than just what you
see. You know, a lot of young people,
they think that, you know, they're they're living
according to how they want, but there's so
much programming happening all the time.
So things like how to you know, part
of that series could be, obviously, you know,
your own relationship with the last which
is the foundational
thing,
the foundation,
your own spiritual practice, you know, how to
develop yourself for yourself, having goals, you know,
you know, making sure that you have leisure
time time and what that can look like,
you know, how to plan a halal party,
whatever. But also
waking them up to start thinking more critically
about the world that we live in.
We should do it. Absolutely. We should do
it. We're doing it. We're making a commitment
here, sis. Yes. And I and I really
like your idea of the the, like, the
group Instagram fast. And I think that with
our combined audiences,
I'm sure that we could and it's not
even for me, it's not even about, like,
numbers per se.
It's about that one sister who's never thought
of doing a thing like that before and
does it and finds that she feels
so much better after having been off whatever
specifically, may for a week or a month,
and she decides she's gonna make that a
part of of her, like, her just a
part of her routine. I'm gonna take time
off. I'm gonna
unplug. You know, like, things like phones, we
so we're going off topic a little bit.
We need to wrap up. But, you know,
we don't talk about how and in fact,
no. Sisafatullah was talking about this on her
live today,
where she was saying how even within Muslim
homes, you have people at the dinner table
on their phones.
You have people sitting together in the living
room, and everyone has got their own phone,
and everyone is on their phone. So things
like that are impacting our households. But because
we think it's not a Muslim issue, we
don't talk about it. But these are things
that are within our control to change.
You know? The age at which we give
our children the screen in the first place.
Right? You know? The age at which we
buy our children these smartphones,
you know, that I'm seeing everywhere. And then
our own use of the social media and
technology, which may might be an issue for
another event. But
to, to to to wrap up everyone,
let me see in terms of questions.
Somebody asked this question. I think it's worth
getting an answer maybe from each of the
panelists.
And that is, you know, how much to
what extent does wearing the hijab make you
an ambassador
of the deen?
And if you feel that maybe you are
not ready to be an ambassador,
should you maybe not wear it?
What do you think?
So I wrote I wrote down here,
when, because one of your questions from like
the prompts was what does
what does the
basically what does the hijab mean to us
And I wrote here to wear our hijabs
with pride unless it be a badge of
honor and a reminder of our commitment to
worship and obeying Allah and attaining Jannah through
his mercy.
So wearing that hijab,
this death of stuff,
it
does make you an ambassador of Islam. I
think that 100%
and
in terms of not doing it, I think
that it's one of those ones where business.
People don't want that responsibility.
Yeah.
But I think that is what it it
comes back to what I who's I think
it was just the first one I spoke
about the fitra,
Whereby when you you will reach a point
in your journey
where
that that tug is there
and you it would eat you up. It's
like people it's like when you come to
trying to, make salah a habit.
Before maybe when you were younger, you could
miss salah and you won't even blink. But
it will get to a point in your
life where you would lay your bed
you'd lay your bed to go to sleep
and you're like,
have a great day shower. And you won't
be able to sleep until you get up
and pray. So I think that it's one
of those ones that it it would get
to a point
where everything in your world would tell you
that you need to be wearing this hijab.
So it's not even a choice anymore. And
I think that we as women, we we
need to reclaim our hijab as a badge
of honor. And I really love, like, for
me, it was mind blowing what, sister Fatima
and sister
Laura shared on,
like, Algeria
and the manipulation and the intentional trying to
break
the Muslim woman's,
like, resolve.
And Wallahi, I I that to me, I'm
gonna go back and do a lot of
research about it and that psychology,
but I think that it's so
it's so revealing and it just shows us
how much power we have in this hijab.
Even though the oppressors try to make it
seem as though the Hidaab is making us
powerless, but it's because they know how much
power is behind it. That solidarity
across the globe. You see it's a side
hijab and it's, like, global.
They've all of a sudden, they're 1. They
were all fragmented before, but because of this
hijab, because of this identity as a Muslim,
they're now 1 and we can't break them.
And so there's so much we need to
unpack there. I think that Yeah. Yeah. We
have that part of the conversation
is needs we need to go deeper on
that subhanAllah so that people see that there
is also a psycho psychological
and political
element to this thing aside from the spiritual
journey.
100%.
And this is the I'm gonna come to
you next, Lauren, but that's why for me,
it's
it's kind of cringey that hijab has become
cool.
It's kinda cringey that there's a Nike version
and a Versace version and a Gucci version.
It's kinda cringey. On the one hand, I
can see, like, yeah, that is pretty cool.
On the other hand, it's kinda like, ew.
Like, you shouldn't want to like, why do
you why? Why? This is not your thing.
This is not your thing. Why? Like, I
wanna know, like, what's the real reason why
you are all of a sudden, yes, you
know, creating stuff for us? Because, originally, this
was subversive.
It was the Muslim it's the Muslim pound.
It is the Muslim pound. It's money. It
is. Somebody somebody's worked out there's a 1,000,000,000
Muslims, you know. Yes. That's a lot of
money. That is a lot It's true. It's
true. They're like, we're not leaving those that
money. Bring the cash dollars. So, yeah, we'll
do hijab. If y'all wanna wear a fashionable
designer hijab, we got it for you. Like,
just come, you know.
Yeah. And and and and
one of the ways that we know that
it's all just about
about the Muslim dollar, we say dollar, of
course, Muslim dollar, or the Muslim pound, is
because
oftentimes
even in the presentation of some of these
more mainstream hijab versions,
it's it's not really respecting anything, again, beyond
just the garment itself.
We've seen it before where there's no corporate
responsibility
in terms of getting advice on how do
you actually put this on the model that's
in the campaign? How do you put it
on her so that it actually looks right
on her? And then what is what is
she supposed to be again, as a stylist,
this is the some of the things I
see. What is she supposed to be wearing
with this thing that you're trying to sell?
Is she supposed to be wearing this and
then, like, some tight dress with like a
slit up the up the leg or or,
you know, I've seen it even presented
with a shirt,
like a cut sleeve shirt,
and and the the garment being sold is
this hijab.
But when you present it in that way,
that shows that you have no context to
that hijab. All you're worried about is, oh,
Muslim women are going to buy this from
me. And I think we have to really
value
the fact that Muslim women have been making
hijabs, making abayas, making sports hijabs, making swimwear,
making all of these things long before any
of these corporations.
And we have to put our money back
into the Muslim community. And I feel like
that's one of the reasons why I'm a
stylist or I chose this lane is because
I want to be able to bring the
eyes of the consumer
to the designers
or to the boutique owners and not necessarily
be someone who just dresses up in any
old thing. And, and, and that's what I,
that's what I stand on. You know, I'm,
I'm, I'm working for H and M now,
I'm working for
for Versace now. I'm working for Dolce and
Gabbana now. No. I want to work for
the Muslim woman, the Muslim woman who's been
here doing this
at from a grassroots level. And I think
we get very sidelined by Nike wearing it
and Banana Republic and all. We get very
sidelined from what was really the intention behind
making this space in the first place. That's
a huge point, actually, because the money that
we spend
with these, you know, let's be frank, non
Muslim,
capitalist corporations
is the money that's now being not being
spent with
Muslim makers, Muslim creators, Muslim designers. Thank you
so much, sis, for highlighting that. It's it's
not something that Tayama, I was literally gonna
say that. Literally, what you said is so
true and, you know, you again, one of
the questions about how do you feel about
the Hida being mainstream? And I wrote down
that it's actually really scary
because I asked myself whose agenda and interest
does that serve? Yeah. So I just wanted
to to reiterate that that as Muslims, our
goal in life shouldn't be seeking mainstream validation.
Yeah. Because when those things come out, we're
like, oh, yeah. They see us now. They
see us now. Oh my gosh. It's so
true. Whose agenda are they actually serving? They're
serving their own pocket. So those things we
should not see them as, oh, finally, yes,
validation.
And I wrote down that, you know, we
just have to look across the pond at
our neighboring faith group and see how the
perils of pandering
to mainstream
acceptance and validation.
They've just made a mockery of everything, so
we need to be very careful
when these things start to happen. Again, it's
about that, like, you know,
almost not like whose side are you on,
but you need to be firmly grounded in
who you are and your values. Like, the
sister was saying, like, your values, your principles,
and and we need to bring our children
up with that. And, you know, again, we
very often on virtual salon, something will come
up and it needs to be addressed in
something else. But, you know, us as Muslims,
you know, Fatima has written a book on,
Khadija Radiullah. And I believe you're working on
a book on Aisha next
But people do talk about the fact that
our children
are lacking role models. Right? And the Muslim
role models that are kind of put up
there
who really get the likes and the follows.
Yeah. Not people like us, Lauren. Not not
you and I. Not you, the sister Fatima,
but people who have literally millions of fans.
Yeah? Halima Aden and people like that, they're
part of a machine. Right?
But the machine again is
problematic.
Right? So us
actively
producing content, producing events, producing,
you know, the stuff that we need to
nourish our children with and supporting each other
in that. It should be a part of
our goals as Muslim families to make sure
we are feeding our children what they really
need and not leaving them, like you said,
one of the sisters said, you know, just
in their you know, just to the wolves
out there, for the popular culture to shape
their world view, for the popular culture icons
to be the ones that they look to,
the ones whose validation they're looking for, whose
approval they want.
I think it's very, very dangerous. And I
think, yeah, it's it's something that we need
to be constantly tackling and talking about with
our children.
Okay. Let's get to it. Oh, I wanna
I wanna give a nice a nice a
nice wrap up. I I wanna give a
wrap up thought here because,
what makes us feel strong? What is it
what is it like to be othered in
the street? Okay. Because this is what it
comes down to. Okay?
Women take our sisters taken off hijab
for publicity,
money,
insecurity.
We've covered a lot of these in this
wonderful session, but there's one thing we haven't
covered.
How do other people who admire us feel
about us?
Because that exists too, and that is something
that shaytam will never let us hear. And
I heard something incredible last year when I
visited Albania.
It was national it was international,
hijab day.
And, of course, in in Albania, they've suffered
under a Soviet regime,
which tore the guts out of this Muslim
nation and told them that communism,
that secularism is best, and they're just trying
to find their way back. So I gave
a talk on on hijab, and at the
end,
2 very,
we could say the Kardashian,
style of young women came over, and I
said, that's interesting. So you
And they said,
I said, oh, you're Muslim. I said, well,
we've just started being Muslim,
and, we're interested in hijab and may God
give it to us. And I thought, that's
so sweet. And then one of the young
women said to me, you don't know, do
you? I said, don't know what? She said,
oh, wow. You really don't know. You don't
know about the hijabi superpower.
I said, go on. Tell me.
She said, when we see you,
any of you walking in the street and
we're not wearing it, it's like you have
a white light around you.
It's like you have all this power around
you and it shakes us.
Allahu Akbar.
She said this to me. I have a
recording of it. She said, you feel you
look like you're gliding,
like you're so confident and protected
and makes us feel vulnerable and angry.
Woah.
So
we have a hijabi superpower.
Never underestimate
this gift.
Never underestimate
that there are women out there dying to
be inside this,
and so we mustn't adopt that idea of
getting rid of this because it's a grace
from Allah.
And I think on that note, we will
wrap up.
May Allah reward all of you for, you
know,
your openness, your honesty, and your amazing shares.
May Allah strengthen us
and make us even better versions of ourselves
every week, every month, every year, and may
we be reunited again upon if
not in this life, then
I just wanna thank the panelists
and thank all you amazing attendees both here
and on Facebook and, you know, on the
replay.
And just thank you for supporting this. The
virtual salon is here for you. It is
your space, and I hope to see you
at the next one,
where we will be sharing
the secrets of successful Muslim wives.
So
this is this is remember every listen back
to this. The replay will be sent to
your email address.
Listen back to it once, twice, three times.
Get a voice note of those bangers that
some of the sisters did.
Listen to them again. Listen to them when
you feel weak. Play them for your daughters.
Send them to your sisters. Like, this is
a way for us to strengthen ourselves because
for sure, like any other act of worship,
we will be tested with this hijab like
anything else. So let's remain sincere and steadfast
and return to Allah
in a state of striving.
Zahra, did you want to say something? I
wanted to say something. I don't think we
touched on it, but I thought it was
really important to just highlight that. Please, sisters,
please, I'm begging you for the sake of
Allah.
Let's stop the judgment.
Let us
stop the judgment
around Hijab.
And I think that we really need to
come
with love for our sisters because everyone is
on a unique journey and it's not as
easy for people as others. You have your
journey your struggles as well. Yeah. And we
should not.
The same way you don't know if someone's
praying or fasting or you know whatever it
is, why then do you feel that because
of this one thing
you can then, you know, pass judgment on
people such so harshly,
no love at all. You know, I saw
a comment come up that we should tell
the brothers let us start, let us protect
ourselves and protect our sisterhood
and stand in solidarity with with each other
and support sisters whether they're in hijab or
not, whatever the the the length of the
hijab and not judge ourselves based on that.
I just really wanted to highlight that because
that's a big, I would say pandemic amongst
the sisters and another
an additional dividing force even for sisters who
cover. So please let's come from a place
of love and true concern for our sisters,
for what truly sincerely
wanting them to
attain Jannah. That's it. That should be if
you if you come from that place, if
you're speaking to a sister, you're advising her
because you you cry because you want her
to be in Jannah, it will come across.
You we will know when that is sincere,
and it would it would touch that sister
and and have the intended chain not just
to be shaming and bashing,
on social media. So I just wanted to
really highlight that because I don't know whether
we reemphasize that
during the session.
I 100%
cosigned that as well. And I think even
the whole issue of social media is something
we need another conversation about,
just in terms of its nature and how
we can manage ourselves on social media and
manage our relationship with it. But, you know,
as I said,
all of you for coming, for supporting this.
You know, we have a virtual salon session
every week.
Only once a month is for sisters only.
And some of you everyone in this Zoom
room, you are all patrons. I appreciate you.
You help us to be able to continue
to do this work,
and there will be a very, very special
way for you all to attend these and
get VIP sessions
every month, but you'll see that in your
inbox. But for now, please do make dua
for all these amazing panelists. Allow us to
continue doing this work. You rob.
Make us sincere sincere sincere servants. Bring us
together upon for your sake,
and bless us all with basira
and steadfastness
until the end.