Naima B. Robert – Discussion on Intimacy In Muslim Culture AminahJayne O’Rourke

Well, if you look into Islamic history so

one of the people I'm going to mention

a few times, and I really hope he

doesn't mind, is Khabib Akande.

I'm sure you've heard of him before. Right?

So he's written,

multiple books, but 3 of them in particular

that I'm aware of are about intimacy

Mhmm. In marriage. And he talks a lot

a lot in-depth about the Islamic, the very

rich Islamic history, and getting it right in

the bedroom, basically.

Tell us a bit about that because there'll

be viewers who are like, what what what's

she on about? What's she what's she saying?

What's she talking about? So, like, erotology in

Islam is not a new thing. This is,

like, considered one of the sacred sciences. Right?

This is halal we're talking about,

you know, where there's marriage in place and

everything. You know, this is, like, absolutely undisputed

Ibadah from start to finish, you know, due

to its intention

and something that Allaah has decreed for us

all to enjoy. You know? And that is

the way it's supposed to be. Right?

But I think

I'm not entirely sure, and other

people will be able to either correct me

on this or they will be able to,

you know, compliment me on being accurate on

this.

I believe

that

with colonization,

for example, of the world,

what came with that was a prudish nature

around

intimacy and marriage and things like that.

Because we can't negate the fact that, you

know, these countries that colonized

I know this is not about colonization. It's

not. Mhmm. But the reason I'm mentioning this

is, you know, these colonized cultures, so to

speak, would have permeated societies to an extent

and set some new boundaries or new etiquettes

that they felt were appropriate.

Excuse me.

And it kind of negated the fact that

it became new cultures in Muslim society that,

you know, it wasn't acceptable for women to

have these conversations or men to have these

conversations. This was strictly private again, and, you

know, we weren't supposed to talk about it.

But if you look into Islamic history so

one of the people I'm going to mention

a few times, and I really hope he

doesn't mind, is Habiba Kandy.

I'm sure you've heard of him before. Right?

So he's written,

multiple books, but 3 of them in particular

that I'm aware of are about intimacy

Mhmm. In marriage. And he talks a lot

a lot in-depth about the Islamic, the very

rich Islamic history in getting it right in

the bedroom, basically. Yeah. And he's got all

the advice and he's got, you know, from

a spiritual perspective and intellectual perspective.

He is absolutely brilliant.

And that's where a lot of my reading

has stemmed from, to be quite honest with

you, in relation to that. I was I

was surprised to hear that in Muslim history,

even as early as the 4th caliph,

you know, there were village aunties of the

day in Medina

who knew exactly what to tell their own

sons what to do, for example, when they

got married,

And they knew exactly what to tell the

daughters to expect. And with absolutely

you know, unabashedly so type of thing, you

know, it was,

you know, I'm giving you this because you

need this information. You're supposed to enjoy it.

It wasn't an uncomfortable conversation for them. It

was, a lot of decided that you're allowed

this. You're getting married. This is a great

thing. Yeah. Here you are. Here's all the

information you need. If you need anything else

after, then, you know, it was an always

open dialogue.

Wow. You seem to have suffered a severe

disconnect to that, to the point where I

think I mentioned to this this to you

before.

When I've I've had conversation

conversations with ladies from some heritage communities and

some non heritage,

communities,

mainly heritage communities, if I'm being completely honest

though, is that literally until the night of

the Mehdi, they just get sexual innuendos and

they actually have no * education before that

point. And I'm like, but

that's an absolute travesty type of thing. You

know, like because

while I don't agree with the agenda that's

being pushed in schools,

* education is very important

It's most, isn't it? I'm sure you're agreeing

with me. Yeah.

And so the reason why I'm mentioning that

is because

they would then go on to say, so

you either had a have an understanding husband

who will hear you out

or you don't.

And that's the end of that conversation type

of thing.

And he probably didn't get

any

* education in that sense either. I mean,

he probably learned a lot of stuff, but

not necessarily

what he would need to know and understand

in order to make that night, you know,

a pleasurable and and kind of, you know,

comfortable night for him and his new wife.

So, yeah, it's a bit like

the almost blind leading the blind, isn't it?

Absolutely. And, you know, you don't you don't

just get, you know, miraculous,

revelation about this kind of thing literally, you

know, as all individual human beings. It's Yeah.

You know, especially as marriage is, you know,

growing length of time, it's about, you know,

growing with your spouse, isn't it? And making

sure that you're still interesting for them and

they're still interested for you. And not just,

you know, physically, intimately, but emotionally and intellectually,

intimately as well. Like, somebody said to me,

what's one of the most important things you

consider with your own husband type of thing?

And I was like, the ability to intellectually

dance

is, like, right up there. I mean, I'm

married to another convert. We had some very

frank conversations before we got married.

And we we did have a conversation about

intimacy and, like, our expectations,

you know, in a modest fashion, you know,

with chaperones around and things like that. It

was really important to us that we're on

the same page as 2 converts who have

been married before, because

it's not a joke, and it's not something

you usually kind of wanna leave. You definitely

don't wanna leave. No. No. No. You can't.

You can't. The the reality is that you

can't. The reason I'm laughing sorry guys. I'm

not being puerile. I'm just thinking I'm sure

that you and your intended

knew exactly why you were having the conversation

and knew what your boundaries were, but I

just, I'm sure any chaperones just were wishing

that the ground would open up as well.

I don't know if they could hear you.

Sure they're probably like, let's just look at

that really interesting lampshade over there for a

moment while Yeah.

Conversations happening.