Mustafa Umar – From Atheism to Islam The Story of Shaykh
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AI: Transcript ©
We begin in the name of Allah, the
all knowing, the all wise, and we send
peace and blessings upon the final messenger of
God, Muhammad
How is everyone doing tonight? Alhamdulillah.
Alhamdulillah.
Yes?
That's like a 4.2 on the Richter scale.
We can do better, but we're on shortage
of time, so I'm gonna let you guys
fly, inshallah. I'm
very excited to have this program tonight. For
most of you, you've been hearing about this
event that we've been trying to do, inshallah.
And alhamdulillah, tonight we'll be able to do
it. Our platform, our program tonight, again, we
can have everybody kinda silence down. I would
really appreciate it. This event is also being
live streamed, so we wanna make sure that
the the audio is good.
Thank you so much. May Allah bless you
and reward you all. On behalf of the
Islamic Institute of Orange County here in Anaheim,
California, I wanna thank you all for taking
time out on a Friday evening, and joining
us. I know some of you are coming
from far localities,
so I know the traffic is not the
best here in so cal. But you did
take time out so I really do appreciate
it for our live streamers people there live
streaming this from home and probably all around
the world. We thank you as well for
taking time out and joining us.
So having said that.
Our event for tonight, our topic for tonight
is a very interesting topic.
It's a very unique topic. Why do I
say that? It's because if you've seen our
journey to Islam series that we've been trying
to do, you find people talking about how
they became Muslim, not, necessarily from a Muslim
background. But today, we had to kinda switch
it up on everyone. That is that we're,
gonna be talking to someone who comes from
a Muslim family, took a little detour, took
a little different direction, and then by the
permission of Allah, came back to Islam. So
we wanna we have some selected questions that
we wanna ask our dear guests. And at
the end, we're gonna have a QA session.
Meaning, questions and answers. I'll ask you guys
the questions, and you give me the answers.
How about that? I'm just kidding. We'll do
the other way around, inshallah. But we wanna
make sure we have enough time for that.
And so for those of you that do
want questions, when that time comes, we're gonna
kinda go jump right into it. Very clearly,
just I want to make sure I clarify
and make sure everybody's on the same page.
The reason why we're doing this event.
Okay and that's gonna be one of our
questions as well but I just wanna make
sure everyone understands unfortunately.
In society some people do take a direction
where they don't believe in a creator.
They don't believe in god. Okay. And thus
as a community, we want to make sure
we educate and we inform everyone, about the,
Islamic perspective, the Muslim's point of view on
who we believe the Creator is, and what
we believe about the Creator as well. Right?
And to talk a little bit more about
that. So we wanna make sure that we
don't just brush something like this under the
rug, Rather we educate and we inform the
community. Especially because it's becoming something that's somewhat
common now. Whether it's on college campuses.
Whether it's at home. Whether it's in the
workplace so we wanna make sure that we
can kind of. Do our best to go
along.
With this topic that we have and to
address these points, Insha'Allah. Is that okay with
everyone?
I really can't hear you guys. Is that
okay with everyone?
Okay. We wanna make sure people in Thailand
can hear this. Because it's being livestreamed. So
as just a request from everyone, if we
could just have silence, please, that'll be great.
For those, we do have a babysitting room,
so if you want to have a babysitting,
that'll be great. Secondly, for the young children,
just as a reminder, just again, some housekeeping.
We have some areas here for the the
young girls, and we have area here for
the young boys. So you can help yourself
to the front here because we're having the
people stand up already, inshallah. So let's go
ahead and get started. With us, we have
our dear guest, someone who's very special and
very close to my heart, our own imam
here, Sheikh Mostafa Umar. Sheikh Mostafa alaihkum. Welcome
to the Deen show. I mean, I'm just
kidding.
And he's watching. I I love you for
the sake of Allah.
Thank you so much for taking time out.
For those of you, if you don't know
Sheikh Mostafa Umar, he's our religious and, excuse
me, he's our education and outreach director here
at the Masjid, and he's been here for
quite a number of years,
day in and day out, helping and improving
this community by the permission of Allah. So
if it's okay, we're gonna jump right to
a Sheikh Musa Omer. Yes, Mila.
You know, the topic that we have is,
your life from atheism to Islam. Maybe I
can back up a step, and that is
from Islam to atheism and back. That's right.
Before we tackle that question, if it's okay,
tell us a little bit about your background.
Maybe growing up, maybe studies,
family, and so forth, if you don't mind.
Sure. So I I grew up, here in
Cerritos, California, Southern California. I was born and
raised.
I lived,
in Cerritos, and then in 2nd grade, I
moved to Tustin.
That's where I went to elementary school, I
went to middle school,
was pretty good student, honors program, all of
that stuff, GATE program. And then in high
school, I went to Tustin High School. And
in Tustin High School,
pretty decent student. I didn't really care much
very much about school, but I knew how
to
know what the teacher is looking for on
the exam, you know? So I I was
pretty good, kinda at the top of my
class,
debate team, all of those things. When it
comes to Islam,
my parents were Muslim, so I grew up
in a Muslim family.
At that time, and things have changed now,
but at that time,
they used to go for Jummah prayer,
but the rest of the prayers were kind
of, you know, on and off. There really
wasn't much emphasis of prayer.
You know, my family there was no practice
of hijab or anything like that. Islamic education
for us was Sunday school. So we went
to Sunday school in Garden Grove from K
through 8. Every Sunday we would be there.
That will not disclose your age because Garden
Grove has been around for a long time.
Yeah. Garden Grove has been around for a
long time. You will disclose the age of
Sheikh Mufaj. Yeah. Yeah. But so I mean
that the only thing that I really remember
about Garden Grove is we used to, in
Ramadan, we used to like play pogs and,
like, other things during Tarawee time in
Yeah. I know. I know. I know. I
know. Unfortunately. Yeah. But we did that, and
then, I just remember the 5 pillars of
Islam. Every year we just learned the 5
pillars of Islam, and that's pretty much all
we all we remembered. So that's that's pretty
much my knowledge of Islam at the time.
So so basically, would it be correct to
say you come from a, Islamic background, or
maybe it's, we're practicing the basics? Mhmm. Just
kinda getting in. Not even accurate or not
even the basics? Not really. I mean,
saw the basics and some some not of
the basics. Hybrid approach, maybe. Hybrid approach there.
You know? So so there's a there was,
like, a mix between culture and Islam, and
we didn't really know what the difference was,
and we didn't really know that much about
Islam except, you know, belief in one God.
That's that's that was clear for us. So
you're you've been in Orange County, obviously, since
since Cerritos, you mentioned Yes. And so forth.
Yep. Okay. So
I guess this is where I would like
to ask a question. Uh-huh. In your schooling,
The conclusion or the understanding that there is
no creator. Right. That there is no god.
There's no one running the, you know, running
the world. Right. So
how did you come to your conclusion
that there is no creator? There's no god.
Was it, maybe some influence from friends?
Was it you know, how did you come
to I I think there's not ever just
one factor when somebody decides to take a
certain path or make a decision. So there's
there's several factors.
There's one highlighting factor which I'll get to,
but a lot of factors were and when
I was growing up,
I couldn't really relate to the Khutba very
much. So my my perception of religion would
be like the Friday sermon? Sermon. Yeah. Exactly.
It wasn't something I could really relate to.
I didn't really pay attention. I don't even
remember if I went on time or I
I don't even know what was happening. Right?
When I when I did go.
In terms of Islamic education, I felt like,
you know, if if we just learn the
5 pillars and just that's it. Like, that
that's the extent of Islamic education. It seemed
very shallow, very superficial,
very ritualistic, very formulaic. Right? So that was
my understanding. And then when I would meet
people who are religious,
when when I would ask questions, they wouldn't
give me a very good answer. Or they
would, like, shut me down and not answer
my question, say, you know, why you asking
those kind of questions? So my perception of
religion already was, especially of Islam, was that,
you know, these people don't want you to
think. There's no intellect involved. That was one
aspect.
If I don't what age was this approximately?
This is my just growing up. So this
middle elementary school, middle school, high school. So
from this old age? Yeah. Yeah. From high
Yeah. So from that time From a very
young time, I'm sorry to Exactly. See these
issues in the Muslim community. Exactly. And and
they automatically have an effect on me. So
when I look back, I re I start
to realize that, you know, that was part
of what I was going through. Then I'm
you know, this is a liberal society, you
know? So I'm watching a lot of movies,
I'm listening to a lot of music, and
the messages in the music and in the
movies
is usually very anti religious.
Anti all religions.
Anti, you know, think for yourself, don't listen
to what other people say, contrary, like anti
anti authoritarian,
don't listen to like authority figures, be a
little bit rebellious. So all of that played
a factor. So that played a role. And
then kinda I guess the tipping point was
in my 1st year of college. So my
1st year of of university, I took a
class on philosophy. It was a critical thinking
class. And I remember Here you go. This
is where it starts. Right? And then what
happened was is,
there was a book that we were told
to read. It's called How to Think About
Weird Things.
It's like a critical thinking book. It's it's
still a book that's taught over there. So
what happened was I'm sitting in this class,
and I think it was the 1st or
second day of class, the professor starts talking
about, you know,
21% of American whatever statistic it was. 21%
of Americans, they still believe in the tooth
fairy. You know,
13% of Americans, you know, high school kids
still believe in Santa Claus. And, you know,
so he he kept on asking questions. Who
still believes in the tooth fairy? You know,
like obviously no one raised their hand. Right?
Okay. Who who believes in demons?
Right? And I used to be a little
skeptical, everything is attributed to this and that.
So I'm like, I don't know about this,
you know. And he said, Who who still
believes in this? And he kept saying, Still,
still. And then he said, Who still believes
in God?
And this is where it just hit me.
I was the only one to raise my
hand, and one other
like hardcore,
like fundamentalist, like Christian, kind of like the
Bible thumper in a negative sense, guys raised
his hand. And this is a guy like
I don't want to be associated with, right?
No one really likes him. He's got a
bad attitude and all that. And the rest
of their class, they didn't raise their hand.
And for me this was the biggest shock
of my life because I had the, presumption
that in high school and the vast majority
of people in our society, they believe in
God. And this kind of just shook me
for a while. I'm like, what's going on
here? How could the entire class
not be believing in this at all? So
something is strange. So that's the first time
I really started to think, woah, woah, what's
going on here? And then I started to
read that book, and from that book I
started reading more philosophy. And I said, You
know what? Okay. Let me go and refute
the the arguments that this professor is making.
Very common what many Muslims would probably try
and do. Right? Assuming that I already know
my Islam. Assuming that my Islam is good.
Right? So I can go back, and I'm
gonna go and argue with this professor. I'm
gonna show him who's boss and everything. So
I go to a bookstore, Barnes and Noble,
and I pick up a book. I won't
tell you the name of the book, but
it's basically a whole list of
the most
supposedly the strongest arguments against believing in God.
It's like a book on atheism.
So I say, I bought the book with
the intention of, I'm gonna read this. I'm
gonna prove my professor wrong. Right? So I
go through it, and I start reading it,
and I can't answer these things. And I
say, Subhanallah. I I don't I didn't say
Subhanallah at that time, but you know, now
I'm saying, Subhanallah.
I couldn't answer these things. So while I'm
going and reading these things, I'm like, Man,
these are strong arguments for me. I already
I think I'm being balanced, right? Because I
think I know Islam. That's the problem with
a lot of Muslims. They think they already
know Islam. So they said, Let me read
the other side, so that I'm being balanced,
I'm not being biased, and just following what
my parents taught me. So I already know
one side. Let me go read the other
side. The problem with that is that I
don't really know this side. I don't really
have a foundation. Right? The foundation you're saying,
your basics of Islam wasn't quite there. So
just for you to refute,
arguments about atheism was a bit hard for
It's very it's very hard. Because because you
think you're reading 2 sides, but you're actually
only reading one side. Okay. So how can
you even weigh in your mind when you
really don't have much knowledge? So that's kinda
what happened, and that's how it started. And
then of course, this is my 1st year
university. I'm in the dorms, finally get away
from parent parental, you know, oversight, you know.
There are being livestreams. I I know. I
know. My parents are watching, you know, so
so It's okay to laugh. Even if there
are funny jokes, you know, makes us feel
good. It's okay. Yes. Alhamdulillah. Or the joke
is like, you laugh about this one.
Alhamdulillah.
So,
Yeah. I mean, so 1st year, by the
way, I So I grew up with very
few Muslim friends. I didn't really hang around
with Muslims. That probably plays a role as
well. Most of my friends were non Muslim.
I'm living in the dorm. I have absolutely
no Muslim friends in the dorm. I don't
hang around with Muslims. I remember,
2 of the brothers from the community, they
went to me one time. I think, in
fact one of them, Zohib Rouhani, some people
know him.
He came to me, and he saw me,
and he looked This guy looks like he's
Muslim, you know. Why don't you join the
the Muslim Student Association? I'm like,
why would I do that? You know, that
was my response at the time. So I
just went ahead and had nothing to do
with Muslims at all. This was my opportunity
for, like, you know, freedom. I wanna enjoy
myself,
and and that's that's kind of the state
of mind that I was at at that
point in time. Okay. So you're in, so
a philosophy class leads to maybe other classes
and other books. Yeah. You start to kind
of distance yourself
from Islam. Yeah. If you will. Right?
Now
you're on campus at UCI? UC Irvine. Yes.
UC Irvine. UC Irvine. Computer Science. Right. Computer
Science. Okay. Take us through that. So now
you're live you have some freedom from home.
Right? So, you know, different things are coming
up on the weekends and so forth.
From your philosophy class and the classes that
you,
you took, how did you get to the
point of was there a point where you
actually said, you know what? I'm an atheist.
I mean was there a defining point? Yeah.
I
basically what happened was is that I had
a lot of friends,
in my dorm.
And most of them were from like a
far east background. You know, China, Taiwan,
some Vietnamese.
And they don't come from a very religious
background.
Even their parents, they were more like in
the communist movement or something. So they don't
even have like a Buddhist background or any
type of religious background. So they were all
claiming to be atheists at the time. They're
like, we don't believe in God.
So I I was very close to them,
and that's So sorry. So these are, Muslims
that are No. No. No. No. These are
Muslims. Not Muslims. Okay. Not non Muslims. I
didn't really have Muslim friends. Right. So these
are just general people that are Yeah. Not
really necessarily believing in it. Exactly. Exactly. So
we used to talk about this, and I
would bring some things up at, you know,
breakfast time or lunch time or something like
that. And that's when I said, you know
what? It doesn't really seem to me to
be any reason why I should continue this
way and and believe because these arguments and
these are smart kids and, you know, they
don't believe in anything either. It seems like
religion is a thing of the past. We
shouldn't have to follow what our parents say.
And that's pretty much where I just drifted
out and I say, you know what, let
me just let me remove whatever shackles
that I still had on. You know, I
still had At that point in time, I
was still thinking, you know,
being a moral person, you still shouldn't party
and do these things. And there's still some
haram things you still don't wanna do, you
know. So that's when I said, you know,
let me have full freedom at that time.
And that's that's pretty much when I decided,
you know what?
There's no point of me believing any of
this anymore. So at this point, you didn't
believe in God, Allah, the Creator, anything of
this nature? No. Okay. How long was this
process? From the moment you make we can
get the audio up. The the audio level
up.
3, please.
NPR 3. Thank you. Just a little, you
know, technical difficulties. Sorry.
You make this choice to say, you know
what? You know, I'm cool. I don't believe
in a creator anymore. How long did this
last, if you don't mind me asking? Year,
2 years, 5 years? So for the straight
period in terms of me not thinking about
this issue anymore and just not wanting to
deal with it,
at least a year.
1 1 year. And then what happened was
the transition period, which we'll we'll talk about.
And it's not like all of a sudden
you start believing on the spot. So that's
it's like it's a process of searching. So
the period where I just stopped searching is
I don't wanna have to deal with this
at all, and I don't wanna look at
anything, I don't wanna read anything or anything
like that, that was a straight year. So
about a year.
Yeah. If it's not too personal, I want
to ask. How did you feel in that
year? Honestly, like, did you feel loneliness? Because
you know, sometimes from the outside, we might
say, hey Yeah. Everything is good. Yeah. Inside,
you know something is wrong. Did you feel
that? Did you have your moments where you
just wanted to kinda be by yourself, depressed,
anxiety? Yeah. I mean, I I I had
my moments. It was a lot of fluctuation.
So it felt good, the restrictions.
You know, I'm like I felt like I
had the freedom, but at the same time,
life was not, you know things were not
that interesting. Right? So when you do something,
you're like, okay, that was cool, but
wasn't that amazing. Right? So there's really no
purpose in life. There's no meaning in life.
So so that's, you know, thinking back on
it. No no no no purpose. Like, you
know how we know as Muslims our purpose
is to worship the Lord, the creator. Right.
So you being an atheist at this point,
we just rewind some time. Right? You had
no purpose. Mhmm. So thus, you were just
kinda wondering. Right. Is that correct? Yeah. So
maybe different things or different understanding. Just trying
to entertain yourself. That's it. Right. Entertain yourself.
That that's that was pretty much it. Yeah.
That's the purpose of life. Like an animal
almost. Yeah. Basically. Okay. Feel good.
Sure. Sure. Okay. Yeah. We'll we'll just take
that then.
Okay. So you said about a year. Right?
Yeah.
How did did you tell your family about
this? No. You did so you kept it,
I I think they're finding out for the
first time. Right? No. And they
they saw an advertisement, so they found out.
If you're watching this, it has nothing to
do with it. Yeah. Yeah. I I called
my mom before I came here, just just
so you know. So you never told them?
No. So how would it work, like, say
for example, you know, you're still you're dorming,
you're on campus, but maybe you come home
for the holidays or whatever it is. Yeah.
And it's prayer time, and you're going for
Jummah, the Friday sermon Yeah. Or it's Ramadan,
something like that. Yeah. What how would you
So it it wasn't an issue because you
okay. Because
Friday prayer I was I was on campus
on Friday,
and we're not expected to really pray at
that time at home the other time. So
it wasn't an issue unless I came home
on a Friday. And if I did, I
I don't recall exactly what happened. I probably
just went with my dad. You know, if
he's going to Friday prayer, I probably just
went and just sat there. Just sat there,
kind of just went around with the That's
it. Okay. Okay. Interesting. Okay.
Because our time is a little bit short,
we have a lot of questions we wanna
get to. Alright. Let me ask you the
next question. That is that, okay, you're an
atheist for a member, a year or so.
Okay? You haven't told your family members as
of yet.
How did Islam come back to you? I
don't know if that's how did how did
they call?
You know, was there somebody that talked to
you? Was it like somebody passed you a
Quran or something like that? Or Mhmm. You
saw a sign that said, you know, come
back or Yeah. How did it work? So
basically what happened was is that, you know,
I was hanging around with, you know,
some bad friends.
And they got me into this idea of
street racing at the time. Those people who've
seen life. Street racer. Yeah. Okay. So those
people who like seeing Fast and Furious and
those type of things. Right? So we used
to street race.
So what ended up happening was is we're
doing this for quite a while. So I'm
finding out a lot of new things about
people who've added, oh. Very interesting. So these
are things.
Let it out, please. It's very therapeutic, I
think. So, yes. So
I I had a brand new car. My
parents got me a brand new car at
the time.
And then it was
faster, so I could race even better, you
know? So we're going around and I'm doing
the street racing, which I don't recommend at
all. It's extremely dangerous by the way. So
I mean if you make one second mistake,
someone is crossing the street or something, you
just killed somebody.
Right? So it's a very very serious thing.
It's a very
dumb thing to do, really. So I just
wanna make that very very clear. Even though
it's all cool in the movies and all
that, it's a it's a very serious thing.
And there's been there were times where like,
you know, you almost hit someone. And you
know if you did, if you just missed
it by half a second, that person would
have been dead. You'd be in jail for
sure. Right? For the rest of your life
or whatever.
So it's definitely not a good idea, but
it's become became like a trend at the
time. Right? Especially at UCI. It was it
was a nickname, University of Saint Vicks and
Integris. You know? It's souped up, you know?
So so that's basically what was happening at
the time.
And,
so I was doing that for a while,
and then I was also I had some
money. I was investing in the stock market
at the same time. This was like during
the tech boom. So it's like a lot
of people making a lot of money.
Right? So
I was doing good. I was making some
money. I was doing other things. And then
what happened was is I remember it was
a Friday.
Specifically a Friday.
And there was a
class that my mom had invited 1 of
the teachers to come and teach in our
house. So so you mean just explanation of
the Quran. The verses? Yes. Exactly. So at
this point in time, she had started going
and attending these Quran classes, so they started
becoming a little bit more religious by this
time now. And, I remember that morning I
woke up and,
I looked at the stock market. The stock
that I had invested in completely crashed. It
just crashed? It's it completely crashed. It was
a very, very bad day for that stock,
you know. And I won't mention, it was
a tech company. Right? So really bad. Okay.
So I'm really, really upset that morning.
And then I think, you know, I was
very rebellious in that phase at the time.
So my parents are telling me to do
something. I don't even remember what it was.
And I was just very, very upset. I'm
like, oh, I don't wanna do this. I
don't wanna have to deal with this. So
I decide, you know what? I'm finally I'm
over this.
I'm out of here. I need my full
freedom. I'm running away from home. So I
decided at that day on Friday,
I'm running away from home, and I'm just
I'm going, and I'm not coming back.
So,
I run to my car, jump in my
car, put all my stuff, got my, you
know, whatever cash that I had, my my
cards and everything. And I'm just really upset.
I'm like, I'm out of here. I jump
in the car, turn on the thing, I'm
ready to go. And then I find out
one of the aunties from the the Quran
class is parked behind me. So I'm even
more upset now because I'm stuck, you know,
in the driveway. That reminds me of the
Masjid here. Right? Or any Masjid. Not all
Masjid. You know? But
So so I remember I walked back into
the house, and I'm like, you know what?
Who's parked in my who's parked behind me?
Can you move your car right now? I'm
not telling them I need to run away
from home, but I'm telling them, okay, move
your car quickly. I need to get out
of here, you know? So auntie, whoever it
was, she moved her car and then I
went.
So I started driving,
and while I'm driving, I'm going all the
way. I decided to go down towards San
Diego, maybe Mexico. I don't know where I'm
going actually. Just really upset, and I'm not
in a good mood.
And so I start driving, and then by
the time I get to around Oceanside,
this 300 zx Nissan, you know, twin turbo,
pulls up and gives me the signal for
a street race.
So there's like a signal between street racers.
So I won't tell you what it is.
But anyways Do you mind sharing that,
it's interesting science, I think. We're all trying
to It's it's a certain amount of times
you push the hazard lights, you know, and
you gotta get you gotta cut in front
of the person and then put your hazard
lights on certain amount of times to get
started. On this? There's there's different there's different
mudhubs, you know, and certain different schools of
tiles. So in terms of how how this
is done, you know. But this was pretty
clear, you know. So I was dry I
wasn't even drying very fast, but then all
of a sudden, this guy cuts me off
and then gives me the signal, and now
I'm even more upset. You know? So I'm
like, okay. Fine. You know? And obviously, you
know,
Alexis IS 300 should never be racing a
300ZX
twin turbo. Just the the 2 are not
on par. It's not a good thing. And
the thing is the road to San Diego
5 South, it's not a straight road. It's
a very curvy road if you if you've
actually been through that area. So that's definitely
not the time to go very fast on
the freeway. So,
I'm really upset, and I say, you know
what? Okay. That's it, man. I'm gonna take
this. I don't care what happens. I'm gonna
take this guy. So we start we start
going and there's a lot of curvy roads.
And, we're going, you know, really fast. I
won't say how fast. But,
I love the disclaimer.
Everything is a disclaimer.
So then what happens is,
my car spins out of control and literally
does a u-turn
on the freeway.
And I end up hitting the center divider
and hitting like, I don't know, 3 or
4 other cars.
Okay. So On the freeway? On the freeway.
Wow. On the freeway.
So then my car is like semi totaled.
Right? Pretty much considered salvage.
But then,
you know, I walk out of there, you
know, to fast forward a little bit. I
walk out of there and I'm not injured
at all. Nothing. Not even
not yet it's not a scratch, not a
pain, nothing. Nothing. And nothing at nothing at
all. You're just able to get out the
car. Just just get out of the car.
Go home. Every fine everything is fine, you
know. So
when I'm fine, then all of a sudden,
people start coming in and telling me random,
you know, some woman, my mom's friend, her
auntie, or uncle, or someone. They keep telling
me that you know what?
Allah saved you
for a reason.
Because this is not supposed to happen to
you. Right? And in my mind I'm thinking,
I don't even believe in this stuff.
Why why are you telling me this stuff?
I'm still on the I'm still yeah. Yeah.
It's in the same things. I don't I
don't believe in any of this, you know.
So then what happens is,
the police officer who was writing me up
a ticket and everything,
he
finally sends me a notice and he says,
you know what? You are going a certain
speed, but he cannot know how fast I
was going.
And I won't tell you how fast I
was going for legal reasons as well. But
he's basically said because because we think you
are going this fast,
you're going to jail.
This is not a one point or a
2 point on your record. This is considered
attempted manslaughter because of the speed you're going,
so you're gonna go to jail, and I'm
gonna make sure you go to jail. And
that's what he told me. Alright? So that's
when I started getting really scared. Because now,
even if you're an atheist, even if you're
trying to have fun, all your fun is
done. You're going to jail. Right? So it's
over. Not too much fun there. Not too
much fun. And I've seen, you know, movies
about, you know, you know what I'm talking
about. Right? No. I don't. Would you like
to, No. I don't wanna I don't wanna
do anything.
So
Just
So
so it can be pretty bad. So
now I'm really scared,
and there's no one that can help me.
Right? There's absolutely no one that can help
me. Parents cannot help me. Right? This is
a legal issue. I cannot get the, people
who I hit to, like, change their
story or something like that. Like, there's there's
nothing I can do.
So that's when I when when I have
absolutely no one else to get me out
of this, so upon this, like, what is
what is saying in the Quran. Right? I've
I've I've realized I have no one else.
So then I said, you know what? There's
only one person I can turn to. So
I started to call on on god, on
Allah, and I said, you know what?
Allah, I don't know if you exist.
I don't even know if you're you're you're
there or you're listening to me or if
I'm even talking to you or whatever it
is. But if you help me out of
this situation, you get me out of this
jam,
I guarantee you, I promise you that and
I didn't want to be overconfident.
I said, I promise you that at least
I will search and try my best to
find out if this is true or not.
Like to find out if you exist or
not. Right? So that's
kind of the du'a I started making. And
alhamdulillah, like I don't even know how long
it was, maybe a day later or a
few days later, you know, all charges were
dropped against me.
Right? So then it's very tempting to say,
it's all coincidence. Right? Don't need to fulfill
that. I just did that in the emotional
state. It's very easy to, like, do that.
You know? And I've done that in the
past in my life, and a lot of
people do that. Right? But this time, I
just say, you know what? That would be
very disingenuous. Right? So let me not do
that. Let me actually take the time and
search. And I remember
I remember hearing about not despite not knowing
much about Islam, I remember that I used
to look up to Yusuf Islam, like Cat
Stevens, just because he was a singer. Right?
So when they had conferences and stuff, I'd
wanna, like, go and say, oh, I just
wanna meet this guy, you know, see him
and all that. So I remember his story
about something about him making a promise,
right, at that time. Like, I know the
whole story now, but at that time, he
made a promise and he was drowning or
something. And I say he fulfilled his promise.
He followed through with it. So I say,
you know what? Maybe I should I should
also follow through. I shouldn't just let it
go. So that's pretty much how the transition
started. I say, you know what? Okay. I'm
gonna follow through now. I'm gonna do what
I need to do, but of course I
don't know what to do. I don't know
what to do. I don't know where to
start. I don't know who to talk to.
I don't know anything. That's kind of how
the transition began. So, you know, maybe,
just by a show of hands, if you
don't, mind me asking, do we have any
non Muslim guests in attendance today? If you
could just kindly raise your hand, I would
really appreciate it. Any non Muslim guest in
attendance?
Okay. I wanna make sure we just welcome
everyone here. Thank you so much for attending
and joining us.
You know, many people probably Muslim or even
non Muslim might be in the same position
that,
you know, they're born into a Muslim family.
Maybe they don't really know the basics of
Islam. Right? Or they're just getting by. Right?
And so they're at a crossroad in life.
Whether they want to go forward with the
Islam thing, if you will, or to kind
of say, you know what? I'm cool. Right?
You got to a point where now you
are saying, you know what?
Allah has showed me a sign.
Now I need to kind of fulfill this.
Somebody might be in the same position. What
did you do from that point? Was there
someone that you had in mind that said,
you know what? I think this is the
person I wanna reach out to. Because he's
welcoming. Yeah. Or that community is welcoming. Yeah.
Take us through the steps if you don't
mind. Sure. Sure. Sure. So one of the
things that happened was then I started,
I started attending Juma. I started going with
my with my father,
to a place, and we finally started going
to a different place. And then I used
to listen to the and it was, you
know,
usually was not interesting. But this one speaker
that I found, this guy was different. Right?
So he Sheikh Mohammed Fakih or It wasn't
like him. Sheikh Fakih, I know you're here
somewhere. I had to. Alhamdulillah. Shout over Hajj.
His name is Shahid Metar. He's the son
of Molana Metar. So those of you who
know him. So I started attending his chutbah,
and I'm like, you know, this guy when
he speaks good English. Right? And, he's got
like a South African accent, and he's a
pretty intelligent guy. He's got a master's degree
in, you know, business or whatever it was.
And he used to say some really interesting
things and I'm like, you know, this is
not what I'm used to. Like, I used
to always feel like most Muslims or at
least Islam is like anti intellectual.
The people people who follow it, they're not
they're not very intelligent people. They're very emotional
people. They don't really think things through very
deeply. So when he used to give his
khutbah, he used to
he used to exhibit this sense of more
like being an intellectual. So that was like
this is I'm not used to this, right?
Like this is pretty deep and this is
getting really interesting. So that's when I started
taking a little bit more liking to him,
and I started to ask him questions after
the. So I'd go and ask him random
questions that I've always had like you know,
random questions like you know, why do you
keep a beard? And you know, is it
necessary? I started with the with the really
unimportant questions, like the the very superficial questions.
And then I used to ask him other
things other things. And then one day I
remember just sitting with him, and,
somebody asked him something about philosophy.
Right? And I'm just listening in. I'm like,
oh, philosophy. What's what's going on? Something about
philosophy. Does my mind go back? My mind
went classes automatically.
Immediately. The moment I heard philosophy, I'm like,
oh, woah. Hold on. This guy even knows
what philosophy is? Like, wow. This is because
you know, because we we we have this
idea
that likes Muslim scholar. That's the way I
grew up. That Muslim scholars, they still think
the, you know, the earth is flat, and
they still think that, you know, the the
sun is spinning around the earth, and you
know, those kind of things. All these different
ideas we have that they're backwards. Because that's
what we that's what I hear in my
community growing up. You know, these mullahs, these
molanas, they're backwards, and they're fat, and they
have big stomachs, and they don't know anything
about science, they don't know anything about the
world. They're like these village imams or something.
So my perception of Islam is, okay, if
that's what these leaders are, then that's what
everyone is. So this guy comes, starts talking
about philosophy. I'm thinking, okay let me listen
in on this. And then he just makes
a statement, I don't really know much what's
going on. So he makes a statement, and
he goes, oh this problem this some guy
was having an issue that he came across
in philosophy.
And he said, well, you should read,
Imam Ghazali. Imam Ghazali refuted the philosophers. I'm
like, woah, woah. Who's this Ghazali guy? You
know, I I need I need to find
out more about this guy. Right?
So I'm like, who's this guy? You know,
and then he looks at me and he's
like, no. No. No. You you know, you
shouldn't read this stuff. I said, no hold
on. I need to know what's going on.
Like, you know, you said refuted the philosophers.
So he told me a little bit about
I really got your interest too. It caught
my interest. So I'm like, okay. Who is
this guy? He's like, yeah. Imam Ghazali was
a guy who like specialized and he responded
to all the philosophers of his time. I
have never heard of this guy before. I
don't even know what time he lives in.
I don't know like how old he is
or did he live like, you know, is
is he in is he in India right
now or I have no idea. Alright? So
I just go and I'm like, you know
what? So maybe I should look into this.
And the guy advised me, he told me
specifically,
you should not read these books. Right? So
for me, I'm still coming out of the
rebellious mode. Right? And I'm like, why shouldn't
I read the books? And he's like, because
it's it's gonna confuse you, you won't understand
it. So I'm like, okay. I'm definitely gonna
read these books now, you know. So so
I go and I order the I I
order every Imam Ghazali book I can find
on Amazon, right, at the time. So I
I buy them all, and then Amazon had
another recommendation.
It's like, if you bought this, you should
buy this. Because I'm like, okay. You know?
So let let me buy that. So I
just bought that too. So I bought another
a book by, Alama Iqbal.
It was about deconstructing,
what was it called?
I still have it. Deconstruction of Islamic thought.
Thank you. And and so I bought that
too.
And,
I said, okay. I'm gonna I'm gonna read
this. I bought the book, and then I
told him the next week. I'm like, hey.
I bought these books. What do you think?
He's like, these are high level books. I
don't know if you can understand them. In
my mind, I'm like, man, I'm gonna prove
you wrong. You know? I'm a I'm a
show you. I'm gonna show you that I
can do it. You know? So,
so then I go back and I start
reading it, and I'm like, what the heck?
This is hard. You know? This is not
easy. It's very, very difficult. But Exactly kinda
what he said.
He was right. He he got he he
was right. Like, this was a way advanced
book. You should definitely,
you know, go through this with a teacher
or have a background in, like, Islamic studies.
You don't just jump into an advanced book
like this. But, you know, I was a
little bit stubborn, so I said, you know,
no. I'm gonna work my way through this,
and I'm gonna figure it out. I'm gonna
show him that I understood it. So I
read I read these books, like, I don't
know how many times. I just restarted, like,
the first page. I could barely get past,
like, the first page. I just kept reading
again and again. And then finally, I would
come and explain to him. I'm like, hey,
this is what I read. This is what
I read. This is what I read. He's
like, oh, that's pretty interesting. Looks like you're
starting to, you know, understand some things. Right?
So that's
pretty much where the the journey began in
terms of like, okay, now I started reading,
now I had a little bit better understanding.
And then he recommended some books for me
as well. One of them was called,
one of them was just a series of
books from Sheikh Abul Hasan Ali in Nadwi.
So when I read that, it's also very
A big influence later in your life, which
we're gonna come to. Exactly. Big influence later
in my life, which led me to India
later on. But then, so I'm reading his
books, and he's very intellectual as well. So
I'm like, this is exactly what I'm looking
for. And then he recommended a tafsir of
the Quran,
by Maulana Abdul Majid Daria Bedi.
So
when I when I came across that, I'm
looking through it. I'm like, this is perfect.
Because Maulana Abdul Majid Daria Bedi
also became an atheist,
and came back to Islam and became a
scholar.
Imam Ghazali also left Islam,
and came back to Islam.
So Ghazali and Daria Bedi were like my
2 inspirations. I'm like, hey I'm not alone.
These guys went through the exact same thing.
Imam Ghazali has an autobiography.
So when I was reading that, I'm like,
yes,
someone else is asking questions like myself. When
I'm reading, Imam Dari Abadi's, you know, a
little bit about his background reading his thing,
I'm like, this is this is my guy,
basically.
So that that really started like a journey
for me of of reading. And honestly, like
prior to this, I don't think I've read
outside of computer science. I've I don't think
I've read a single book in my life.
No. I'm not exaggerating that. Like, I've read
comic books. I'm sure if I take a
survey right now, it might all be in
the same, But let me clarify to you.
Like even in high school, okay, I had
excellent grades, all honors classes, you know, GPA
is very high, top of my class. But
those English books we're supposed to read,
I read the cliff notes. Okay? And I
and I got through. Right? So I didn't
even read those novels. I didn't literally, I
don't recall a single book that I've ever
read from cover to cover prior to like
these books when I started. And this is
like, you know, 2nd year of 2nd year
of college. Let me stop you there real
quick. We have a very, important announcement.
We have like 3 cars are potentially gonna
get towed. So if you park your car
in illegal
Sketchers, you're going to get towed. So they're
just telling me right now.
Yes. Freezing.
So I I don't know whoever if you
park in Sketchers and you park in a
way that you're not supposed to be parking.
Okay. For the sake of time, Sheikh Mosef,
if it's okay, I I wish we you
know, stories like this, I I feel a
bit,
guilty,
in the sense that I'm not able to
do full justice on it because
things like this, you can sit down, you
can speak for a long period of time.
But being that our, time is short, I
wanna make sure we can highlight a few
things. Just as a reminder, we have a
lot of space up here for the sisters.
If anybody's comfortable, they can sit here. For
the brothers, we can squeeze in a few
people here. We have a lot of people
that's out into the the prayer hall as
well. So, try to move in if there's
any seats, that we can fill, that'll be
great. Please do.
Okay.
So Sheikh Mustafa,
very quickly, if you don't mind. So,
you started to read these books, by and,
a few other authors.
Where did you make your obviously you're getting
a lot of knowledge. You're you're getting your
foundation maybe through other sources too, going to
the Friday sermon, the Jummah.
When did you say, you know what? I'm
kinda like back to Islam. Was there like
a defining poem? Like, you know, there might
have been a defining moment when you're an
atheist,
or somewhat.
Can you think back to if there was
something like that, coming back to Islam? Or
So actually, I don't think it was a
defining moment. I think it was a transition
phase basically where I decided that, okay, I'm
gonna dedicate myself to this. I'm gonna read.
I'm gonna learn. And one of the things
Imam Ghazali always emphasized was is that you
need
to practice it
in addition to this reading. It's not just
an intellectual exercise. You need to do it.
You need to live it too. So Eddie
says you need to you need to taste
that experience. So I I made a decision.
Okay. I'm gonna do the
actions. And I don't remember exactly where that
transition mentally was. Where okay, now I'm
doing it out of sincerity, and not just
doing it out of like an experiment type
of test type. So application, meaning you're applying
what you're learning. Yes. And so this slowly
maybe over a gradual period of what do
we say, months, years?
Yeah probably
at least a year. At least a year
of like trying this out,
and then
pretty much You're comfortable.
Then being comfortable. Yeah. So then officially maybe
you were inside, you had a
this is just a personal question. Did you
like retake the shahada or did you shahada
means the declaration that when somebody becomes a
Muslim. Right. Did you feel like you had
to redo it because you left or Honestly,
honestly I don't recall. Because my my at
this point in time, my knowledge of Islamic
law was not that detailed. So I was
focusing on these other issues. I didn't really
know about, oh, well, you know, you gotta
have 2 witnesses when you take the declaration
of faith. That that I I don't even
recall, to be honest with you. Yeah. But
you would say you But like later on
in life, about like maybe at least 1
or 2 years later after I joined the
MSA and then I started giving khutbaz and
classes and all that, I remember
saying the shahada several times to myself. Like
making the tech declaration
of faith because of what hap had happened
in the past several times again. So you
had conviction. You were sincere at this point
now.
So now you're officially,
obviously a Muslim, someone who submits and surrenders
to the creator, on the creator's terms. Yes.
Exactly. So now,
you know, there's obviously many people in attendance
here. Many people probably live streaming it, or
they might be watching it down the line.
Somebody can say, you know what? Hey, I
want to kind of be like you, Sheikh,
and maybe I want to try out atheism.
I want to taste it. And you know,
because there are some,
according to them, that it makes sense.
There might be,
somebody who's a Muslim that's thinking about, hey,
you know what? Islam doesn't really make sense
because they might have went through the same
things that Sheikh Musa went through when he
was young. Meaning there's no religious scholarship to
go to. You will go to our Friday
sermon, you have no idea what's going on.
Things of that nature. Right? What would you
tell someone, and even some concerned parents, just
by a show of hands, how many are
parents here,
they have young children or youth and so
forth? Just if you can raise your hand
aside, please. How many are concerned?
How many are concerned? Okay.
I hope the same hand, if not more.
Okay. So we have a lot of concerned
parents. We have a lot of youth here
as well. Right? We have a good diversity.
What would you say to someone that
might be trading down the same path? What
would how would you address that to a
concerned parent? They might think, hey, this event
you're advocating for someone to become an atheist.
Obviously, we're not. Yeah. Can you just elaborate
or shed some light on that? Yeah. And
what I would say is that, you know,
don't fall into that trap that I mentioned
before. Is that this assumption that I already
know my Islam, I already understand my religion,
and therefore I need to look at both
sides in order to weigh them. Don't assume
that you already weighed your own side first.
The one that you're you're you're you're growing
up with, the one that you're on at
the moment. Right? So
you need to be balanced. So having a
foundation in Islam
before you go and start investigating these other
things is very important. Because otherwise you're like
a you're like an empty bucket. If you
don't really have a proper knowledge of Islam,
people can fill it very quickly with something
else. So my advice would be that you
know what, if you're having this idea, you
know what, let me try and you know,
look at what these other arguments are. Let
me go and you know, try and see
what such and such says.
First
go and understand what Islam says at a
good, deep,
intellectual, solid level in terms of what scholars
have said regarding these things. And once you've
done that, you've done justice to that, then
go ahead and look into the other arguments,
and you'll be able to weigh. Right?
You know, Allah has given us, God has
given us the ability to differentiate between right
and wrong. Right? That's something that's ingrained within
us. So my firm belief is if someone
is sincerely doing this, and they're reading other
things, as long as they've gone properly and
looked through both both opinions properly, then they'll
be able to arrive at which one is
true. That's that's our belief as Muslims, that
Allah has created us this way. So my
advice would be that's 1. Number 1, make
sure your own Islamic foundation is solid first
before you start going and studying other things.
And number 2,
don't do it alone.
So don't think that this is an individual
thing you have to do. Go and consult
with scholars. Go and consult with people who
are specialists in the field. The reality is,
the reality in my reality and the reality
of most people is, the majority of teachers
that I've had in my entire life,
they were not Muslim.
They had no Islamic influence. In fact, the
vast majority of them, they were not religious
people at all. They can almost not relate
to an Islamic world view in any way,
shape, or form. So if I'm trying to
be unbiased or whatever, what type of bias
am I technically growing up with? I'm growing
up with the opposite bias without realizing.
Thinking that my parents
have more of an influence over me than
my teachers and my friends who are mostly
non Muslims and not religious people at all.
That's a very,
it's a very unfounded assumption.
Right? That's not the way things work nowadays.
Maybe in the past, if you live in
a tribal society, your parents would have more
of influence over your teachers and your friends,
but that's not the case anymore.
Your, this leads me to my next question.
Education. Right? And, making sure you have a
solid foundation about Islam and its principles and
the articles. And 2, if somebody asks you
questions about Islam, you're in a position to
at least answer them at a basic level.
Right?
Your journey from then growing up in a
Muslim family,
turning to atheism, now coming back to Islam,
then you started your pursuit of knowledge. Yes.
Right? Eventually, you became a Sheikh and an
imam. But, if if it's not too much
to ask, you traveled various parts of the
world to seek,
Islamic knowledge. Yeah. You There were times when
you got really sick. You almost passed away,
if I'm mistaken. Yeah. Can you elaborate on
that? That's I think it's very fascinating just
because we live in a society where,
I think a lot of us, we spend
a lot of, time
in studying other matters, which everything has its
due right and respect. But when it comes
to our own way of life, sometimes we
don't put as much time. Take us through
what you went through. Okay. I mean, the
first thing I went through was before I
left.
So right when I started getting interested, I
started reading and I said, okay. You know
what? I think I should be Muslim.
I wanna drop out of school. I told
my parents, I wanna go and study somewhere.
You know, I wanna go to the school
in India where Sheikh Abul Hasan Aliaduhi was
from because that's where I, you know, I
was motivated by his books and writings. And
they said, no, there's no way you're going
there. So I said, okay, fine.
So that's out of the question, right?
So
I still dropped out of school anyways.
So I I left school
and I joined some different Islamic schools in
this area. Now keep in mind I'm reading
Imam Ghazali, and he's talking about, you know,
he's talking about Madras in Iraq
during the golden era of Islam. So I'm
thinking man, this is, you know, this is
gonna be it. I'm I'm going to the
Madras. This is gonna be like Imam Ghazali
and a bunch of intellectuals and all of
that, and and when I get to my
first school that I go to,
it was just an absolutely horrible experience. You
know? So I lasted about 2 weeks there.
And then I'm like, I cannot do this
anymore. So then I went to another Islamic
school locally over here. And that was another
2 weeks was local. The first school 2
weeks was local. Southern California.
Somewhere okay. I'll I'll Southern California
standards. Right? And I just I I didn't
wanna start with that, but it it was
it was a horrible experience for me. And
then I went to another one, also a
horrible experience for me. You know? So I
said, okay. I this is this is ridiculous.
What should I do? So I didn't know
what else to do, and I'm not allowed
to go anywhere else. And I don't have
money because I lost it in the stock
market. And, and my accounts got shut down
by my parents after the car accident and
all of that stuff. So that all everything
is done. As any concerned parent would probably
do. As any concerned parent would probably do.
Right? So,
so what do I do? I say, you
know what? I'm not going back to school.
So I definitely am not going back to
school. So what I used to do is
I used to go to UCI.
I used to go in the morning, sit
in the library the whole day, and come
back home at night time.
So I would just read all the books
on Islam in the library, which I don't
recommend anyone to do by the way. The
reason is, that the vast majority of books
in the library, they're written by what's called
orientalist.
So they're non Muslims writing about Islam for
the most part. Right? But for me, I
still don't know that much, so I'm reading
my other stuff and then I'm reading whatever
I can get my hands on. Right? So
that was my first experience of knowledge. And
I I wasn't attending school, but I was
still going to UCI. Eventually, I got enrolled
again,
with the deal with my parents that I'll
be able to go to India if I
finish my degree.
So I reenrolled.
We made the deal. You reenrolling India.
Yeah. I reenrolled India. Go to India. This
is your In order to go to India,
I I need to get Your graduation is
to go to India. I need to get
done with this program as soon as possible
so I can get out of here, and
I can go learn Islam. Right? This this
knowledge needs to end. So I didn't attend
my graduation or anything. I graduated very quickly.
And,
I said, now the real the real knowledge
starts, right? So I'm ready to go India
and my parents say,
change our mind. You need to get a
job. So I said, okay. That's why the
the the the deal didn't work out exactly.
So so then I got a job and
I worked as a programmer And as soon
as I made some money, I said, now
the deal deal or no deal. I got
enough money, so I can go. So I'm
going. So either you you you know, either
you let me or you don't let me,
I'm going. So they said, oh, no. Okay.
We changed our mind. You know, you should
go. We we're gonna encourage you, you know.
So now now they're on board.
So,
so I went to India. And when I
got to India, you know,
the school wasn't what I was expecting.
It was very, very different. You know, in
retrospect,
I didn't understand that, you know, this is,
you know, this post colonial
India,
more of a rural kind of city where
I'm going into.
The curriculum is different, the lifestyle is different,
and living inside the school, the language is
different.
So, yeah, a lot of stuff happened to
me.
So one of the things that ended up
happening, I got typhoid while I was there.
So those of you who don't know typhoid,
typhoid is,
basically this is what happens when you have
typhoid. Your fever goes up to a 104
degrees, and it just stays there. And you
have no appetite.
So you just take, like a aspirin or
or an aspirin, like paracetamol,
tylenol type of thing, you know, acetaminophen.
Temperature goes back down for like 10, 15
minutes and then it goes back up to
104. So it just stays that way, and
then I didn't eat for like 4 or
5 days because you have no appetite at
all. So I literally drank like green tea,
I think, for about 4 or 5 days
straight until finally I I told my one
of my friends there, I said, you know
what? I've I've had it now. Just go
ahead and just just call 911. You know,
just just call the call the hospital. And
he he's from the England. Right? So he
understands me a little bit better. So he
starts laughing at me. He's like,
you're you're American, you know. He's I'm like,
yeah, yeah. Whatever. 911. Whatever the number is
for the emergency. I did the 911 in.
I was waiting for someone to No. I'm
still I'm saying I I realize it's not
the number. Right? I said, just just call
the ambulance and just have them come here.
I mean, Esau is laughing at me. My
man, I'm I'm like, I'm dying here. Right?
Why are you laughing at me? He's like,
you don't realize where you are still. Right?
This is this is India. This is Lucknow.
You're in the madrasa.
There is no ambulance.
Right? There is no ambulance you can call.
They just come and pick you up. So
I'm like, what do you mean? What if
people are like what if people are gonna
die in their room? He's like,
they die.
And I'm like, Subhanallah, let's they just die.
They just die. And he's being serious. Right?
And the guys around me, they're looking at
me and they're like,
yeah. Yeah. Like, what do you mean? Yeah,
man. So
subhanallah. So, you know, we had Apparently, you
missed that on the syllabus or something. Yeah.
Yeah. I guess I missed that part. The
flavor that they had.
So then there was, there was one of
the teachers that studied in England, and he
had like a soft spot for like, you
know, western students. Yeah. So he's like, you
know, let's help this guy out, you know.
So, he he gets his driver to drive
me to like the a nice hospital.
Nice according to their standards. Right? So, I
get there
and then my friend told me, he says,
you know what? You know, it's not gonna
be a good hospital experience. I'm like, it's
better than than dying. Right? What am I
gonna do? So they put me in there,
and then they, you know, start in just
injecting me with a bunch of, you know,
glucose and, like, you know, fluids and all
that stuff. And I sit in the hospital
for, like, 3, 4 days.
And then I came out, alhamdulillah, it was
okay. A horrible experience, but I came out
okay. So then that was that was that
was done. I said, okay, alhamdulillah, I'm done
with that. At least that illness is gone.
And shortly after that illness happened,
somebody accused me,
of being an American spy
inside the school. Right? So so now I'm
getting really frustrated, you know. Hitting every direction.
I'm hitting every direction. Right? Right? So, like,
so I'm, like, you know, I'm I'm almost
starting to question. I'm, like, you know, Allah,
I I really went through a lot of
struggle, you know, to get to this point.
Sure. And I travel all the way here
and, like, leave my job and leave the
country, and then I get sick, almost die.
And then afterwards, now I'm being accused
by my brothers, right, who are supposed to
be like my fellow students and and teachers
and stuff, being a spy. And there's a
rumor floating around and this and that. And
then some other stuff happened here and there.
And then I'm like, that's when I decided,
you know, I think it's it's time to
transfer somewhere else. You know? So that's when
I I basically I came back, and I
was kind of in depression. And I was
thinking, you know,
I don't think I'm gonna be able to
learn. There's nowhere else I'm gonna be able
to study.
So that's why I came back and, I
just got another job. I started working as
a programmer again, you know. So and I'm
thinking while I'm sitting there programming and I'm
doing my work and I had a, you
know, pretty good salary and everything.
I I personally love the the 9 to
5, like, you know, cubicle lifestyle. It's it's
very nice, very relaxing. You compare with being
an imam, like, you know,
7 days a week versus, you know, 5
days a week, it's like a totally different,
you know, world. So I just thinking about
that. I enjoyed my job. I love my
job. We were making
like vehicle tracking devices,
for cars and also for shoes at that
time, you know.
So it was cool. Nothing to do with
the spy team. Nothing at that time. Nothing
to do with the spy team. Just clarifying.
Just clarifying. You didn't go back into a
field or where None of that stuff.
So I'm there working, everything is going good,
but every single day, like during my break
time, I'm on Islamic websites. And I'm listening
to Islamic lectures. Or I finish my work
early, and my boss would tell me, you
know, you you work really fast. Just
just sit at work, just sit and just
do do whatever you want. Just surf the
Internet. We don't care. Just just stay here
physically because you finished everything. Right. Right. Right.
So I would go and just listen to
Islamic lectures, and I'm just getting frustrated that
I can't go and study more. I need
to go and like, what am I doing
here? I'm not supposed to be here.
So that's when I get the idea that
you know what?
I haven't performed Hajj yet. You know, let
me go for Hajj. Okay. So I said,
okay. That's it. I have I have enough
money. I should go for Hajj. So I
make the intention. I said, I'm gonna go
for Hajj and then I'm gonna figure out
what to do afterwards.
And then I say, you know what?
If I'm going for Hajj already, it might
as well just stay somewhere in that area.
So
my travel agent convinced me, He happened to
be Egyptian. He's like, the best place to
go is Egypt. So I'm like, okay.
Go ahead and book me the ticket right
from Hajj. I go straight to Egypt. So
I told my boss. I said, you know
what? I'm going for Hajj. First, he approved
it. And then I said, well, I'm going
for Hajj, but I'm not coming back. So
he said, okay. That's unfortunate. So I went
for Hajj,
great experience,
and then I went to Egypt. Egypt. I
went straight to Egypt. How long did you
spend in Egypt? So in Egypt, I stayed
a year in Egypt. Okay. Okay. And So
you did some time in Egypt. I just
I wanna make sure we can get to
the question. From Egypt, then you went to
you continued your study. So from India, you
went From India, I went From India, I
went went to
Hajj, went to Egypt. Egypt. From Egypt, I
started searching for another place to go. So
I go to Sharjah, I go to Jordan.
I tried to go to Syria, but they
wouldn't give me a visa. So I tried
to go to different schools to look where
I should go. I finally end up in
France. You ended up in France? In France.
Okay. So from France, you finished your studies
there. What did you study in France if
you don't mind me asking? Islamic law and
theology.
Sharia. Sharia. And it was in Arabic, correct?
It was all in Arabic. Yes. All the
studies were in Arabic. And then from there
eventually you ended up in the UK if
I'm not mistaken. Yeah. So then Did you
come back? Yeah. I came back and then
I worked as imam in Culver City, King
Fahd Mosque for 6 months. Then I worked
in Corona for about 2 Anybody from LA?
Make make somebody okay. Just 1 or 2
people. Okay. Yes. There we go. Okay. We
got you. We got a few people. Alright.
And then only OC crowd, being that we're
in Orange County. I just wanna make sure.
Yeah. And then I went to, Corona, Masjid.
It was about, like, 2 and a half
years there or something like that. And that's
when I decided, you know what? My journey
of knowledge is not is not fulfilled. I
still have a lot of questions. Not fundamental
questions.
Sure. Sure. But I still have
a lot of questions that I have not
finished my search for knowledge. So
I should continue that. So you pursued more
Islamic knowledge, and that's where you ended up
in? That's why I went to England. England.
You spent how long there? Spent another year
there. Another year there. Yeah. And then you
did like a master's program or I did
a master's program and then I was doing
research privately on the side. Then you came
back, and now you're Then I came back
and I spent 6 months in Phoenix.
Wow. Just like in retreat, just studying and
writing some books, like starting this program of
Islamic, like Islamic University program that I had
in my mind to like start developing.
Let's fast forward now just for sake of
time.
You get your knowledge, you get your degrees,
etcetera, you have knowledge now.
You become
We have something called CIU, California Islamic University.
Just by a show of hands, how many
of you are familiar with CIU, California Islamic
University?
Okay. Good. So at least I would say
50% of the crowd, if not.
You're now the director, the founder of California
Islamic,
California,
Islamic University. Islamic University. I'm still CIS. Right?
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
We can, just some requests if we can,
if if there's some children in the back
just to kind of keep it quiet. I
appreciate it.
How did this idea come about? Tell us
about CIU, if you don't mind.
Just take us through that. Because it's something
that's a very unique program, if you will.
Yeah. So for me, I wanted to go
and and learn
specifically what I need to know as a
Muslim for myself. I didn't want I didn't
want to become an imam,
ever.
If if a few more people start becoming
imams, I can, you know, go into another
field.
But in the meantime, so basically, I have
this idea that look, this is what I
wanted to learn. These are the challenges that
I had to live through in terms of,
you know, all the difficulties that I faced.
And also there's a lot of things that
I learned which are very theoretical
and they're really not that practical
for my for myself. Like, this is not
what I'm looking for. Right? This is what
what I was not interested in. So I
said, you know what? It would be it
would be amazing if there was an Islamic
program, an Islamic studies program
that
would
want that would basically teach everything that I
was looking for, that I wish that I
had, without having to travel abroad. Alright? So
that's that's what I wish I had. And
I wish I could've kept my job and
studied Islam on the side. So I'm thinking,
you know what? What if there was a
program where you could either do it full
full full time, or you could even do
it part time while you're going, keeping your
job, or or going to school at the
time, and you can continue and get all
this knowledge, and and you have the Islamic
answers for what you're looking for. So that's
where I came up with the idea. I
said, you know, what am I supposed to
do after I finish England?
I'm gonna come back and just become an
imam in a mosque again. There's challenges with
being an imam and you're working on one
community, but it's some there needs to be
something bigger. You know, so I was thinking
what to do, and I remember in finals
week,
when I was supposed to be doing my
finals, I'm thinking about this idea, you know,
now that I'm almost done with this program,
what am I gonna do next? So this
idea comes up in my mind, and I
consult with some of my my friends at
the school.
And I say, you know, what about, like,
this type of online university where we take
we take the I had a lot of,
imams who actually graduated and were doing the
masters with me at the same time. So
I asked them, so what do you think?
You know, did you did you benefit from
everything that you learned? Do you think some
of it could be cut out and some
parts could be added and modified and all
that to make it more relevant to, like,
a western context? And they're like, absolutely. We
went through the same thing. So we're all
on the same page. So I said, well,
what if we remove this and add this
and remove this and add this? And they're
like, this is exactly what we should do.
So I have the idea. I said, okay.
You know what? Let's try and reform the
entire curriculum
that's generally being taught. Try and narrow it
down, squeeze it down into to exactly what
people like myself would have wanted to have
learned based upon all these, like, you know,
the average program for, like, becoming a sheikh
or imam is like 6 to 8 years.
Right? So what if you can squeeze that
down into however much you can squeeze it
down to offer, like, a 1 year potential
program or a 2 year program or something
along those lines. That's pretty much what I
did with with CIU. That was the goal,
that was the vision. We're still, you know,
always revising the curriculum, trying to make it
up to that level, but that's pretty much
the idea behind it. Something where
if someone wanted to do the same thing
like myself, they don't have to go to
foreign place. They don't have to go through,
you know, illnesses. They don't have to, you
know, get the whole accusation of being a
spy, and you know, traveling from one country
to another. Not everyone has the luxury to
do that. And at time, I wasn't married
either. You know, a lot of married people,
they asked me, you know, how you know,
can I go to India too? I'm like,
not that cool. Especially if you're married or
you have kids, it's not gonna happen, you
know. So there's gotta be other alternatives.
Yeah. So, CIU,
is on a quarter based system. Yes. Right?
You offer various,
classes and different ways, different methods of these
classes.
For the community, for those that don't know,
or for those of us that do know,
as a reminder, the new quarter is coming
up. Take us through some of the classes
that you're offering. Yes. And maybe some of
the ways that maybe they can take part
or so forth. Sure. So the next quarter
starts on Monday.
Like in this case? This coming Monday. Yes.
This coming Monday. Yes. Right. Right. So,
2 days away.
Some of the classes we're offering this quarter,
every quarter differs. We have 22 classes. Classes
we're offering 22. 22.
Wow. 22 classes. Yeah. So
one of the classes, and I think one
of the most important classes for someone who
is like in my position,
is the class on beliefs.
So basically this beliefs one class which starts
on Monday,
and we have the textbook outside and everything.
This this class basically talks about,
you know, how do we know things? It's
a little bit of philosophy mixed with theology.
How do we know things? How do we
know God exists? How do we respond to
classical atheist arguments? How do we respond to
the new atheist arguments, Richard Dawkins and Sam
Harris and, you know, all these guys?
It talks about, you know, common questions that
people ask about, you know, well, if if
god knows everything, you know, if god has
already decreed everything, then what's the point of
doing anything? And if god knows everything, then
has he forced you to do that? Do
you have free will and all that stuff?
Right. So people have all these questions. Why
is there evil in the world? And does
that mean that god is not all merciful
or all good? You know, all of these
things get addressed in in this a class
like this. So that's beliefs 1.
Another class that we have coming up is
spirituality. It's basically purification of the heart. And
like I talked about, you know, that rebellious
phase and anger and all that, we talk
about anger and its effects on you and
how to control your anger. We talk about
pride and arrogance. It's a really big problem,
These need to be addressed and they're very
important. So we have a spirituality class coming
up as well. And then we have Islamic
law 2, which is basically we covered Islamic
law 1, which is prayer and fasting and
all that stuff. This class is gonna cover
marriage,
divorce,
economic transactions,
what is interest,
investing in the stock market,
all of those type of things. Even like,
you know, political matters in Islam and all
that. And this is all done in the
English language or do you do in Arabic?
This is all done in the English language.
All in, okay. And we have 3 Arabic
classes, but everything else outside of that is
all done in the English language. So somebody
has not, as of yet, let's say, from
the community here or somebody who's watching a
live stream, wants to take one of these
classes, they can just they'll register. It'll be
in the English language. Exactly. You have, like,
you don't have or how do you go
about? Yeah. Well I mean I assume it's
on a professional
level. Yes. Yes. So very academic standards, we
have a test every week. So there's an
exam every single week.
We have s short essays to write as
well. We have a midterm and we have
final exam for most classes. Some classes have
only final exam. So it's a very serious
program in the sense of, it's like you
you know, if you take it, you have
to treat it like a university.
Like you would treat any other community college
or any university class. And you can take
it in person and you can live stream
it? Is that correct? Or Yeah. You could
take it online even if you can't make
the live stream. You can do it if
the course is recorded, so you could do
it afterwards. You could do it after the
fact. So let's say, you work
at night, and you're not able to attend
the night class. You can wake up in
the morning and watch the video in the
morning and still do the class. Okay. Good.
Good. Just as a,
maybe as a point to note, we have
California Islamic University here with us today. As
you know, it's it's an initiative from IIOC.
So it's part of IIOC.
Our if you guys are familiar with our
new, extension building that we have down the
road less than a mile away, which houses
many different activities that we do here at
the at the masjid as an extension. But
the primary means is for the Cal Islamic
University.
So we have a table outside. They're actually
registering,
people today on-site. So if you're interested and
something I highly recommend and I think Sheikh
Musso would also
agree with that,
Well, no matter what age you are, it's
always good to either refresh
to get Islamic knowledge, or if you never
kind of found an outlet where you can
get Islamic knowledge in the English language, this
would be your opportunity
to do so. So that table will be
outside. They also have some, books for sale,
and so forth. Right? So just make sure
you do that. At the same time, you
know, IIOC also has a Dawah department. So
for those of you if you're interested in
that, we also have a table outside, which
you can sign up and you can help
and assist as well. Sheikh Mussoir, our time
is coming down. We're gonna have q and
a starting in a few minutes, so let
me just get that out there first. For
those of you, if you have any questions,
we're gonna have a single file line,
single file line. Everybody, please listen to what
I'm saying. We're gonna have brother Fawad here
with the mic. Just kind of queue up
right here. Ask your questions. Please keep your
questions,
or your
advice, or your suggestions, whatever you want to
call it. Please keep it under 10 to
15 seconds. If it's more than that, then
you should be up here, and I should
be interviewing you. Right? So do me a
favor. If you have questions, you can start
your lineup right now because we only have
a few minutes left. Right? Sheikh Musa, really
quickly,
for those that might be looking into atheism,
give us an argument or 2 against atheism.
You know, we have the beliefs class. Right?
What argument would you bring to say, you
know what, this just doesn't make sense, and
these are some of the reasons why I'll
provide 1 or 2 reasons. Right.
So one of them It's getting kinda noisy
in here. If everyone can kinda do your
best to keep it down, while you guys
are queuing up, I would really appreciate it.
Yeah. Please, the mausolel isn't also overflow, so
please don't block the doors either. So just
try you do your best not to block
any, entrances or exits. So, Yeah. So two
things. The first one is this, is I
think,
what a former atheist professor Anthony Flew, he
said,
yeah. So is that better? Yeah. Yeah. So
what
former atheist professor Anthony Flew,
he he wrote a book called The Presumption
of Atheism, which is basically like this common
argument that, you know what, the burden of
proof is on the person who believes in
God. So they need to prove that God
exists. And if they don't have a proof
and they don't have a clear answer, then
the default
is that you don't believe in God.
And, this is a false argument. The reason
why it's false is because
the way the the the easiest
and
the strongest way to believe in God is
to look around at creation.
Is to see design in the entire world.
The world exists. Almost everyone believes that the
world exists. We witness it. We see it.
Right? To see the complexity around the world,
the complexity in our body,
the complexity in, you know, the entire universe
and how everything's in a specific proportion,
that calls out for an explanation.
And the explanation is either this is all
a random transformation,
or the explanation is it was designed by
a designer who actually has an intelligence, a
superior intelligence,
what's called intelligent design.
So this idea that the burden of proof
is always on the one who's trying to
prove it, and you know what? Atheists don't
need to give any argument or response like
that. That's a very weak argument. It's a
wrong argument because of the fact that there
is a reality out there. And what's really
interesting, this this guy named Anthony Flew, he
was one of the world's most notorious atheists
for 50 years, and he wrote this book.
And he, near the end of his life
about, you know, a few years back, he
changed his mind. And he said, I was
completely wrong, and he refuted. He wrote a
whole reputation against his own book, saying that
this was a wrong argument. This was a
mistake. Right? So it's really important. So that's
one. The second, the the second argument is
that this idea that everything can be attributed
to chance.
Right? If you just look at from you
take a human cell, look at what a
human cell is made up of. Look at
how many, you know, different molecule how many
different parts there are, and the complexity
even within a human cell. To say that
that
formed by itself let's assume that wherever matter
came from, that matter organized itself to come
to that. You do the probability calculations and
you find out it is, like, almost almost
almost impossible. So when someone's believing in that
and saying, you know what? I think it
all randomly formed by itself. We can say
that they're believing in something that's, like, with
has a probability of being correct, like, 0.00001%.
Now is that more likely to, you know,
make someone believe, say, yeah, I'm gonna go
with that one. That seems more likely to
me. Or something that's 99.9999999%.
Right? I think these two arguments are
good for now. I appreciate that. Thank you
so much. Let's take this time now for
q and a if it's okay. So, go
ahead and state your question. Brother Amin, you're
first, so go ahead and please ask your
question. Assalamu alaikum.
Real quick, what practical advice do you have
for parents with young children to help guide
them so that they don't
fall down that type of route? Thank you.
Yeah.
So there's a lot of advice. That's a
very loaded question, but it's a great question.
First of all, I would
raise children with the idea that
they
are not only allowed to ask questions, but
they're encouraged to ask questions. And when parents
don't know the answer to the question, don't
shut down the question. You should validate the
question and make sure you go to someone
who actually has an understanding and can give
a proper answer. I think that's one, thing
to do. The second thing to do is
parents need to demonstrate
their Islam in practice. So you can just
talk about Islam and how beautiful Islam is,
but if they don't if your kids don't
see Islam being manifested in your behavior,
then it's going to seem very hypocritical. So
I would say, live Islam in your life,
and that's going to play a very important
role in how it's going to affect your
kids as well.
Thank you so much. Our next guest, if
you can Miss Pam? Hi.
I'm a Christian and I just had a
question. I've been studying about Islam somewhat.
And I have run across both in the
Quran and the Hadith
some sections where Mohammed said that he did
not know what Allah would do with him.
So my question is,
I don't understand how Muslims have assurance of
salvation.
If Mohammed wasn't even sure, can you help
me with that?
Sure. Yeah. So the idea of assurance of
salvation,
I know this is, very important for many
Christians. They use I I I usually get
this, comment a lot.
The idea is in Islam we're taught to
be humble in the sense that, you know,
when we're when we know that God judges
criteria by if we believe and do good
deeds, we hope inshallah,
God willing, that we're gonna enter paradise. But
we're supposed to be humble and say, you
know what? Are are my deeds really good
deeds? Is my intention really correct? So these
type of statements that you find, it's just
about a sense of humility. We don't like
to say, yeah, I'm going to paradise for
sure because I'm a true believer. It is
a sense of humility that Islam teaches, and
that's kind of what those statements were hinting
at.
Well, it's we know what the criteria of
God is, and we know,
that God will not violate what he tells
us. He's gonna keep his promise. Right? So
the weakness of assurance, we're attributing weakness to
ourselves, and that's part of being humble rather
than saying, I know God has to let
me into paradise because I did everything right.
That's not the characteristic of a believer in
Islam.
Our next question. We can take our next
question here. Thank you, Sheikh, Mustafa.
Please forgive me. I I have a very
difficult question. I'm trying to find the truth.
I read in Al Baqarah 256
that there is no compulsion in religion.
But when I read the Sira, I see
things like after the battle of the trenches,
the Abu Karayza
tribe
had 800 of their men executed, and they
were defenseless.
Can you explain how we can reconcile
verses like 256
with the?
Sure. You you also have a Christian background,
my friend? Yes. Okay. Sure. So verse 256
means that you don't force religion, you don't
force Islam on somebody else. So that's quite
clear, and you don't really find many instances
of that happening throughout Islamic history, definitely not
in the lifetime of the prophet Muhammad. The
incident you're referring to about the Banu Quraysa,
which basically what happened was, in a nutshell,
is that the Quraysh tribe
attacked and tried to eliminate the entire Muslim
community. They almost killed off every single Muslim
on the face of the earth. And what
happened was this Jewish tribe, they actually sold
out the Muslims
and allied with them, and actually
joined them and allowed them to be attacked
when they almost got killed. So they had
a treaty with the Muslims and they broke
that treaty and actually betrayed the Muslims.
So whatever happened to them, it was not
is, you know, Muslims trying to enforce religion
upon them. There there there was no offer.
There's no connection between the the verse that
you mentioned and the incident. Because they didn't
go to them and say, you know what?
You need to accept Islam and that's why,
you know, we're gonna kill you or we're
gonna fight you or something like that. What
really happened was that there was a treaty
between them. They violated the treaty and that's
that's where the incident took place.
Okay. Thank you so much.
Next question. Yes.
Hi. I know it says in multiple places
in the Quran that in order to be
a true believer, you have to accept all
of Mohammed's
like rulings. Is that correct?
Mohammed's rulings?
Like his,
whatever decision he makes, you have to follow
all the decisions he makes?
Yeah. Yeah. Somewhat. Yeah. Basically. Okay. Because I
also, I heard
that in the hadith in Sahih Bukari 8457,
it says that in the words of Allah,
Allah's apostle, whoever changes his Islamic religion, then
kill him.
So if that's like a if that's what
Mohammed
ruled, then what would you think about that?
Do you agree with him? So it didn't
actually say that, it didn't say it changes
his Islamic religion. So it says it changes
his deen, so it changes his religion. Now
the thing is it's important to see this
in context. So the context is this is
a political statement. A political statement means this
is a this is a decision that he's
making in a political context
of how to keep society in a specific
case. If you look at what Muslim scholars
said about this statement, did they say that
this has to be applied in every single
community? Absolutely not. They never said that. You
take one scholar for example, Sheikh Islam Ibn
Taymiyyah,
a very important figure in Islamic intellectual thought.
He said that, you know what? There is
no specific prescribed,
penalty
when it comes to this idea of somebody
changing their religion or apostasy. If you look
at Imam Qarafi, a Maliki scholar from Egypt,
he wrote a book called Al Farooq. Al
Farooq basically means that there are some statements
of the prophet that are made in a
political context,
in his circumstances, and there are some statements
which are made in a purely religious context.
So when someone looks at hadith, they should
be able to differentiate between what is a
political context
and what is a religious context. This hadith
is specifically a political context. If you look
at any Muslim scholar who's written on it
throughout history, you'll find that to be the
case. Can I ask what does it We
have to we have to take the next
question if you don't mind? Just wanna make
sure everyone gets there.
And I, I was kinda like coming along
the same line. I was, I found your
testimony kind of interesting
in a sense that you apostasized
from Islam,
which as as I, and I was, as
you were talking, I was looking it up
here and I, just like the young lady
before, I I was looking up Sahid al
Bukhari. I've taken your suggestion too. I own
Sahid al Bukhari, Sahid Muslim, tafsirs,
Ibn Kathir, Ibn Abbas, the 2 jalals, etcetera.
I've I've I've read your your religion
to Sahid al Bukhari, and it says Allah's
messenger said that you should be killed.
I said okay,
I heard your answer to that. Alright.
So you didn't like my answer? No, your
answer's fine. Okay. So just to follow-up, sir.
So what's your question? You seem to like,
Imam Ghazali.
What was his, thoughts on apostates?
Imam Ghazali's thoughts on apostates? Yeah. Yeah. Would
they be in harmony or not with,
harmony? I haven't read his specific statement on
this,
but have you?
No. No. Surely I haven't. Oh, okay. Okay.
Yeah. I haven't come across his statement, but
I would assume that it's not much different
than what the other scholars have said.
That would be that it's a political context.
So it's a political discretion
of the person who's leading at the time,
the ruler of the time, to decide what
what should be done. It's not that this
specific ruling has to be applied against every
single person in every single context. So if
your question if your question that you're asking
me and the previous person is asking me
is that, you know what? In true Islam,
because I left Islam, should I have been
killed on the spot? And the answer is
absolutely no. Is that what the prophet was
saying in the Hadith and Sahil Bukhari? The
answer is absolutely no.
Okay. So Thank you very much. Answers that
question.
Next question.
Assalamu alaikum Shay.
So
I look around the world, and I see
that
Islam is practiced,
starkly,
differently
across different regions in the world. Example being
here in the west, we do not think
that
a person should be killed for illegal Islam,
whereas in some Eastern countries, they actually practice
this.
I just want to know why
is it that Islam is applied so differently
in different regions in the world? Like the
Philippines, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, India,
Turkey, the United States.
Why?
Okay. So the answer is because
there are some aspects of Islam
which are not entirely
clear cut, and Allah allowed them to be
open to certain interpretations.
So basically what happens is because every people
have their own intellect, every every group of
people, even within the same culture,
there will be some different opinions in terms
of their understanding of what these texts were
really trying to say, and what god was
really trying to say, or what the prophet,
peace be upon him, was really trying to
say. So this is something that happened even
during the generation of the companions, and it's
something that happened
after the companions. So you'll find maybe more
homogeneity
within one specific culture or one specific country
because people
maybe think a little bit more congruently
in that context.
That may be the reason why.
Okay.
We'll take the next question.
While you're going through the phase where you're
exploring
atheism,
Focus on that. Did it ever occur to
you, that the majority of the Americans that
practice Christianity here?
Would that be the way of life?
Did that thought thought cross your mind? And
if it didn't cross your mind, you strike
it off. What were the reasons are for
our friends here, the Christian friends who came
here?
What would you say why why that was
not a natural appeal for you? Okay. That's
a good question. So
so the one thing I do remember growing
up,
with minimal Islamic education,
I remember Ahmed Didat.
Right? So most of you know of Ahmed
Didat. So I remember his videos and I
remember watching a little bit, and you know
Muslims get very excited when they watch it
because he's a great speaker, you know. So
I remember some of the things he was
saying. And after just watching those videos, the
idea of the trinity
turned me off very much. It never really
made it never made sense to me. So
two things really never made sense to me.
When I was searching for different religions and
I was looking into different things, the idea
of the trinity never made sense to me,
and I don't think I could reconcile that.
So that wasn't very,
appealing to me. The idea of Judaism was
not very appealing to me because I didn't
have that blood in me, and there's something
special about, you know, those people because of
their lineage.
And then the the third thing was, like,
idol worship, like, you know, Hinduism or fire
worship or those type of things. It didn't
appeal to me either because it didn't seem
to make any much sense to me. So
I didn't give those religions too much
investigation. Although I looked into them a little
bit, but they weren't really on my radar.
And that's kind of the reason. This idea
of, you know, religion should be something
that is,
if not entirely rational, it's something that should
make sense, and shouldn't be like logically contradictory.
And that's always a principle that I had,
so it should make sense. And if it's
not gonna make sense, and it's gonna be
self contradictory, it's gonna be something against my
understanding,
then it it doesn't then then you could
just believe in anything. Why? You could believe
in the tooth fairy. You could believe in
Santa Claus like that professor, you know, was
saying. So that's kind of that's kind of
where I was coming from in that sense.
Yeah. I mean, what Yeah. Yeah. The question
just I was my question was as well,
if it's okay.
You mentioned, like, the trinity Yeah. And why
it didn't appeal to you. Maybe, you know,
god becoming a man and taking on human
characteristics. How something,
all knowing can be limited at the same
time. Like why would that not be a
conclusion that you came with? Right. It just
seemed contradictory. The idea of you know, having
3 persons within 1 person, but then they're
not the same thing. So it seemed like
it was a lot of semantics
and different definitions coming out. And the idea
of god becoming into a man in the
man form that, you know, removes his quality
of being god. Right? So that's something that
it could not be reconciled. You know? And
I talked to quite a few people and
they had issues with it as well. So
Due to the sake of time, we have
a few minutes left. We'll take one last
question. You have a Sure. Okay. I just
wanted to build on an earlier answer that
you provided.
The question was, why is Islam practiced differently
in different parts of the world? And you
provided an answer that it's maybe different interpretations,
cultural impact, homogeneity of interpretation, and so on.
So what's the right Islam then versus the
wrong? Is there like a right and wrong,
or is what Isis is doing right? Is
like what American Islam right? Like what's the
right way, and is there a right wrong?
Or is it all just subject to interpretation?
Right. So,
yeah. What ISIS is doing is definitely not
right. Let me clarify that one. So, yeah.
There is a right and there is a
wrong, and I'm glad you asked this question.
So the thing is that, this kinda goes
back to what Pam was saying, initially in
her question is that, you know, well, you
know, how do you know what you're doing
and how does god know what you're doing?
At the end of the day, god is
gonna judge. Right? But when you're going through
a text or you're trying to read what
what what the Quran is really trying to
say or what the prophet, peace be upon
him, was really trying to say, there are
interpretations
which can be valid and legitimate because the
the text carries that. And then there are
those other interpretations which are completely off. You
know, they they don't fit within that category.
So some people have come across and say,
you know,
in the Quran, there's a story where Moses
threw his staff and it became a snake.
So someone gave a a a commentary and
said, well, it wasn't really a staff, you
know. The staff refers to anger. And Moses,
he he used to get angry. So when
he threw his staff, he threw his anger,
it became a snake because his anger was
like a snake. Like, there's no basis for,
you know, this type of interpretation, and some
people give these interpretations. So there is, there
is, like, a circle
of acceptability in terms of differences of opinions
which are valid, which, you know, god is
gonna accept from us.
And then there's some things which are outside
the circle. So we try our best to
arrive at something which is
a valid understanding of that verse,
knowing that at the end of the day,
God is gonna decide whether we're right or
wrong. But there is a sense
of getting as close to the truth as
we can as our limited nature as human
beings.
So hopefully that answers the question.
May Allah bless you all. May Allah reward
you all. Thank you so much for being
patient with us. I know this is a
long program, but, just basing it on everyone
that come came out and stay with us.
This is a great,
attendance and great showcase for everyone to come
out. Sheikh Musa, thank you so much for
joining us. We really appreciate it. We know
you're very busy and for you to take
time out and join us here, I really
appreciate it. Pleasure. I momentarily ask Sheikh Musa
to do a closing dua if it's okay.
But for the community, Isha, our, number 5
prayer, it's gonna be at 9:30 in a
few minutes. So if you can help us
out, not right now, but momentarily to pick
up the chairs and put the chairs away
as best as possible so we can kinda
clean everything up, that'll be great. I ask
Sheikh Musso to conclude. And then if you
can help us out
with the chairs, that'll be great. And also,
please don't forget to register at c I
u at the c I u table, Cal
Islamic University, which is outside. Do your best
to register, and we can go from there.
Yeah. And the website as well as cal
Islamic dot com?
Oh, Allah, show us the truth is truth
and help us to follow it. Show us
the false is false and keep us away
from it. Oh, Allah,
help remove the propaganda and the Islamophobia
that we're facing in this community.
Oh Allah, help us to all become seekers
of truth and allow us
to allow us to search for that which
would please you and do that which would
only please you. Allah,
increase us in our sincerity.
Allah, let us not become hypocritical in our
deeds or our beliefs or our actions.
Allah,
let us do only that which would please
you in our lives and do not take
away our lives until we're ready to die
in a state of true belief. I mean,
Thank you so much everyone. I appreciate it.
May Allah bless you all. Please help us
out with the chairs. Just put away the
chairs. We have, 2, 3 minutes before Ishaa
starts. So if you can help us out,
that'll be great.