Channel: Muslim Life Hackers
Series: Muslim Life Hackers - Season 1
Mifrah and Maheen interview Hamza Tzortzis on the topics of; success, mindset, thinking and planning for your future, plus much more!
Hamza Tzortzis is a prominent speaker, researcher and writer on Islam, politics and Western/Islamic thinking and philosophy. He has lectured and taught workshops worldwide for institutes such as iERA, AlKauthar Institute and IOU.
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Episode 47 on the go to person says don't plan your life freely. Of course not.
That's rubbish. That's rubbish why Welcome to the Muslim life hackers podcast, the weekly podcast providing you with tips and tricks on how to hack your life and maximize its potential. And now for your hosts Mithra maroof and Mahima Lake, as was said, the crisis see
Assalamu alaikum This is my hain Malik here with Episode 47 of the podcast. In today's show we actually have a guest interview with Hamza sauces. Hamza is an international speaker on Islam, a vida, a lecturer, and instructor and a researcher. He delivers courses and workshops worldwide with organizations such as AI era occult, the Institute and the International online university. In today's episode, my friend, I will be having a conversation with Hamza on topics like how to plan for the future critical thinking, and how to tackle the problems that you're facing today, along with much, much more. And as you can find all the links and resources mentioned in today's episode
in our show notes at Muslim life hackers.com forward slash 47 and lesson number 47. So with that being said, let's get straight into the interview.
All right, sounds good. Thank you so much for joining us for this interview. We're really excited hope we can get into the guts of this interview. Yeah, so one of the things that we want to start off this interview that we know that you had had recently. And so you know, with every single person that goes to Hajj, they come back with like a different experience that's unique to them. So we're interested to know like, what were your experiences from your hardship that you can share with our audience? So very good question.
Hatch for me was why causa de individualization of the self,
I suppose this is because a family.
Basically, I became nothing. And in the midst of 3 million people, in that nothing, he actually actually find yourself. Because you strip away your kind of false identity and the illusions that you've built around your life like I am this I am that and so forth. So that was stripped away from me, then I basically became nothing. And through that nothingness, I found that I'm just an avid and just the worship of Allah, a worship of Allah. And during Hajj, what you experienced is actually a true sense of happiness.
without sounding spiritual, cliche, without it sound like a cliche. And the reason I'm saying it's true happiness, because nothing else matters apart from going to Mina, praying, reading,
going to alpha, alpha, going back to Mina, to mucha, Murat, etc, etc. And you like following a process you just following the command of Allah and the will of Allah, just like the planets, they
are in orbit, and everything obeys the same law, and they have a sim function. And so you've basically stripped away all of the illusional illusionary aspects of your life, like your ego, who am I, I'm a father, I'm a husband, I'm a teacher, I'm this and that sort of irrelevant, and you become nothing. And in that nothingness, you find who you are, which is you just the worship has become really happy that you come back, you get depressed,
he hasn't let go withdrawal symptoms, is kind of like what you've been talking about recently in your talks and courses about awakening the fitrah.
Maybe that's a good link, what we talked about in consenting awaking the fitrah we talked about that there is something within us allies created according to the traditions inside a Muslim and other places. And in the Quran itself, where Alliance created something that is natural and unchanging, that acknowledges a lot and wants to worship Him. So we could fit for other ordina like a new piano, Josie or even Timmy and others. They said not only is it the natural disposition to worship Allah, and to acknowledge him but also that were molded to be in line with the Islamic ethics and the Islamic tradition, Islam. So that's the fitrah. And the way to break up the fitrah is essentially
doing things like great damage. And let's see, how does the calamity because in the cram, you see that there are various ways of of waking up or triggering the [???]storm
awakened, and those are to ponder, to reflect, to reflect on the Qur'an to engage with Islam in that manner, but also to experience calamities and problems and hardship, and hardship. So that is like a window of opportunity is spiritual and opportunity, free to open and free to reach a lot close to Allah. At the same time, we can see you are so when I went to hatch, and many other people have experienced this, you just realize that you're nothing but that nature. So you should read all your illusionary identities and your ego, and then all you have left is nothing with your fitrah. And it's saying, hey, I want to worship Allah, you said you like, good job.
So it is so interesting. It's more profound than that.
Apologize, because it's like when Allah says, Those forget, forgot Allah, Allah will make them forget themselves. So in a way, our self identity is contingent dependent on
remembering Allah. So it's that when you remember like, and when you find all this fun to live your life, you'll find yourself. Yes, exactly. pretty much exactly the same. Interesting. So how do we connect this with a today in our societies, we're told that we know, we're like, we're special snowflakes. We're like, oh, like, special butterflies. And we're all individuals and we all have, like, we have to go after like what we want to do in life and things like that, how do we consolidate consolidate this with the fact that, you know, we're slaves of Allah? We were, like you said, but like nothing? Yes. Well, we're in a society that celebrates the ego. Yeah, so you know,
you're this you're that make a change be something that's frankly, all rubbish. The media is rubbish is because you just
you just adding illusion of an illusion, you just building upon your ego. In Islam, you don't add you take away, that's what you do. So you strip away from the socialization from the system has affected who you are, whether it's materialism, or whatever the case may be. And then that's when you find yourself fluffing solid things like the kid seems like reading the Quran, it doesn't really add to your identity, it removes the ego. So follow when you're in such that your heart is higher than your brain, you know, you're facing the floor and the dust, the ego has been diminished. And essentially, you just find out who you are, which is just a simple person who's worshipping Allah.
So if you will. So with that in mind, like a person says, Okay, there are a simple person and
you know, they know their place, but then how with that mindset, how can they actually realize that they have something special to offer to this world? How can you find that balance to them? Because sometimes a person can be so low of themselves that they feel like, you know, what you can I know, what change can I make? And, you know, I can't do anything because I'm lovable kind of thing. That can't really change. Yeah. Because I love to change. So see, through the nothingness if you like to diminishing the ego, it doesn't mean you don't have a sense of self esteem or you don't have honor. That doesn't mean that because our honor, isn't that debasing because when you humble yourself, and
you diminish your ego, that ally limits you. That's the point. It's not like, Oh, I'm just nothing, I'm pointless. No, because Allah gives you that you when you reach that positional stage, so and through that, that you realize some of the goals that you want to achieve in your life. Because now you're connected to Allah nice about worship, because there's a problem amongst oma, we ought to be legacy builders and pioneers, I will do this, I will, I will do that. There's so many leadership pushes, right. Which is, which is across injustice, is seeking leadership is actually a spiritual disease in Islam, oh, need to change the world, I want to be his flower man. But at the end of the
day, this will force and we must only do those things as a result of
seeking the pleasure. And there's a fine balance here. And I think we've missed that out in our popular culture, you know, go to courses or go to events. It's all about building the ego, you know.
But no, the Sahaba actually was so successful is because
they were so humble and so connected to allies to that they became successful. I don't think we've become successful for the ego.
So what is it that we have within us as individuals that make us so susceptible to like ego building? What is it that we need to like, right
Nice within us,
though nothing that aligns everything a lot. Everything you do is because of a law.
If you know that, and you know that you essentially are weak in terms of like, you know, you have a
sin, for instance, you transgress you're almost an enemy to your own soul. And the only thing that could change that is by connect to Allah. So, if you realize you're nothing, Allah deserves all praise or thanks or gratitude.
And you realize that you're not self sufficient because the western society's biggest disease is that we think we're so sufficient, because we get a job. We have Medicare, or whatever you call it. You have medical insurance, you have this you have that. You feel like you're almost godly. Yeah, so submission. And that's an ego. And that's a barrier to Allah. Because, you know, she was misguided because of ego. Not because of this belief, even from a Hakan perspective. He, he spoke to Allah. Yeah. So he's going to do this because he had ego. You know, he was like, Hey, I'm at a fire isn't a clay? Yeah, what's going on here?
yeah, so we think we're self sufficient, and, and the society builds up. And we forget that we're actually very vulnerable, and that everything is dependent on Allah. And that's the critical point. Because we're so busy with Facebook, Twitter, mobile phones, internet forums, cooking, more cooking, finding clauses where the case may be shopping, and we don't have time to realize who we are. And it's only certain things in life that we can wake us up sometimes, like, the internet's down,
she left me or what I do whatever the case may be, and then we find that we're actually vulnerable, we're dependent, but then after we get back into that drunken state, of the rat race, it's me and I'm self sufficient, and I am the master of my destiny. So you know, falling on that point that you said about how you were living in like a ego society, it actually reminds me of that verse in the Quran, which is like, have they taken goddess themselves? So pretty much that seems to be happening has been that, you know, you're saying each person is feels like they're a godly individual. So with that, and then with realizing that you are dependent on Allah subhanaw taala, what would actually
encourage a person to take action then, if they say that, okay, I'm dependent on Allah, Spanish, Allah, Allah subhanaw, taala, do whatever change that's needed.
With us, my action could be
to take a dog, for example, right. And I like comparing us to dogs, because I think dogs in some form are quite more elevated than humans. Because
the farmer loyal for one. And he stops, by line with the nature but many human beings don't align with our leeches. Take it out, right.
And is based on a story from one of the writers, I think his name was
eaten. Very nice story. And basically, he's saying that him and his dog in a very hot day, and they were walking in the forest or the jungle, whatever the case may be. And that was so like, almost ill and tired, and he's coming out and
the man in the story was really tired, and he wants to find some shade. So they stopped in some shade, and the dog was sick, so so pleased, but then his master, the owner, deliberately walked off, and the dog repeatedly just follow him. So the dogs dressed and when needed that shade. And he, the owner, run back to the shade. So the doctor gets some shade, and the dog was like almost like in a static pleasure. Now, the story that he got from this is, look, look what the dog does for his older. She would even basically, his fidelity, his obedience, his realization that his existence is dependent on the owner,
even though the doctor is stayed in the shade, but he he obeys willingly. He put his needs regardless of 1000, sufferings. And then
in the story, demand basically says,
I just realized my loads, forgive me, helped me be like this lowly animal, I could sleep on a dog.
But he's almost better than me because
I will that I am more dependent upon a law than a dog is dependent on me. And I'd like the doctors to see Yeah, this is profound. So what do you stand for?
dependency, that you do everything your Master says, that's what action comes. It's really interesting. Because oftentimes, like in life, we always do things that we know we shouldn't do. They're not good for us. But yet we proceed. And we go ahead and we do them. And somehow we push back the knowledge that you know, this is bad, this is wrong. And we just go ahead and follow like, you know, musical desires and things like that. Interesting, huh? Yeah, it is. See, I just show you mix up a bit. And connecting back with what you said how we awaken at times in our life. Going back to your history, is there any moments within your life where you can say that, you know, you had
that awakening moment, you realize that, you know, I'm really nothing, you know, I am dependent on a lot.
Yeah, there's a few.
I remember I was Muslim, I had a friend who was Muslim. And I remember it was in my mom's room. And he would say,
we did things for the sake of God.
I felt sick, actually have felt inside me, my soul felt sick. I went to the toilet, it was like, Oh, my God, I just feel really bad. I can, it was like one of those moments where your ego is bashing, because it just couldn't stand the concept that you are not for yourself. I just couldn't understand it. And that was one of the small trigger points that got me thinking about, you know, who I am. That's a trigger point. Another trigger point was, when
my son was born, my first child,
I realized two things. The first thing I realized was, how bad son I was to my father. And I was crying rates felt really guilty about the whole thing because it's so awakened to the reality of how egotistical you are to your parents. The other thing was, is I knew immediately when my son was born, that I could easily put my neck on a rail railway line, and allow the train to decapitate me, just for my son. So as a parent, if you do, you would like you could, you could literally do anything, any means necessary to help save your child. But then that made me realize,
did I have the same approach for Allah?
So Allah says, children a test fee, but also a lesson? Listen was
I was aware, I thought I was considering my level of demand because, you know, so willing to like sacrifice for my son, but could I do that for Allah. So that was a waking point. Another waking point was where I attended this kind of psychology course thing. And it's designed to
teach you how much of a scumbag you are.
As my psychology teacher, your for your scumbag use or your for you have the power to change the relationship in your life. Don't blame yourself, blame yourself. Because about 200 people in the room and they all have the same experience. You see your life in them as well, and to be completely real. So that was the waking up point made me realize like, it made me realize everything I've been doing for the wrong reason. And it's all ego. So after that, I would say humility,
exercise or a set of humbling exercises like apologizing to people and
blaming myself, even when I didn't deserve the blame, but stuff like that good training.
That was a waking up experience. Also, just before I converted to Islam,
brand new song was the truth intellectually. But when you become a Muslim, and I became a Muslim, when my friend took me back, that means it's a real way, a profound way that I internalize that information straightaway. So that was the waking up point thinking, Okay, I need to make a decision because there are implications.
Every day the waking up.
Every day can be if you reflect on your day properly. For sure.
Every day should be an awaking day for them. They shouldn't just wait for like a calamity. No, of course not. I mean, because if you if you
if you adopt the art of reflection, then every day because every day Yeah, for sure. Like I don't really remember what happened yesterday or two days ago week. I trained myself like that. And even like I could argue with someone at home and or like my mom or dad or and it didn't happen.
Monday comes it didn't happen. Like that it's like is almost meaningless. I think that wasn't to be successful. spiritually.
Everything is meaningless, unless Allah gives it meaning.
We get a lot of problems because we give out meaning to things. Yeah. Oh, but she said this about me, how did she come down? Who there are you saw what? And maybe better than yours, you might have minus she
saw me relax, what is it meaning Allah is giving you here, find out what Allah intends for you and find out what meaning he wants in this situation, which usually is to shut up, forgive. We don't do that, because we give so much meaning to it, we give so much meaning to them. So if you follow that general rule, everything is meaningless. And it's like gives it meaning that up like the price of some of which will never demand his right. You only get angry for the rights of Allah.
And I believe other people by himself.
That's a very interesting perspective to put, you know, something that like, because I didn't know that when you became Muslim, what I wanted to things with you became Muslim during like a
university college age. So then after that you started, you know, taking whatever decision in your life to to be where you are today. Like, what advice would you give to people of that age, like, whether they be born Muslims or just became Muslim? With not with realizing that, you know, they're really nothing? And that with realizing like their place in the world and with their religion and on us further? What advice would you give them on how they should go back with their life? This is about perspective. So when you realize you're nothing spiritually, then that should basically empower you, and,
and make you realize that everything happens because of the will and power of Allah. So if everything happens, because Allah will empower, that should really make you Superman. It's weird that you just said we shouldn't be Superman,
by the tension. But once you realize you're nothing, yeah. And then you realize everything happens because of the way the powerful law that can make you Superman without intending, I want to be something why, like the Sahaba. They
spread some water around the world in just a few years. And they were so successful.
Because they knew that allows everything, everything happens because his power, and because of his will, and that were essentially just empty tools allow users to manifest his guidance and his mercy. So we understand everything happens because the wind power law, he creates a new realm of possibility. Anything becomes possible, because you don't know what would have a life.
And in many you don't think it's possible is because you haven't, you have given something else power. That's the point. Somebody Oh, no, I can't do that. Why
does the law to do this? You don't know. It's because you've given something else power, you got to do something else. But the only thing that really manifests itself is the Lord's will. And you know, the will is since the infinite realm of possibility to achieve what you can. And that's why most should be seen as crazy.
Yeah, we like to use that word a lot.
So I'm going back to like, see the tools kind of side of it? What is something that you use to like, keep in touch with your crazy like side or infinite possibilities?
It's a good point. What do I do to maintain that craziness?
I don't know. Really. I think the more you fit the law, the more that craziness will come out. I guess they here's the powerful one. He's when he gets when she brave, isn't it for lazy with you? And he you know, he's your protector. And you know, everything happens? Everything happens because of him. Everything is possible. So that creates that craziness.
So like knowing that, okay, so there are infinite amount of possibilities in the world. How does one know what direction to go to then? I mean, because he said that the sugar levy leadership courses and whatnot.
But I'm saying we live in is a spiritual crisis that we need that everyone's become a leader. Yeah, I mean, before you become a leader, you have to be a good follower. Yeah, there's not one course on how to become a good follower. Either that indictment twice, actually, yeah. And I blame some of the so called teachers.
You haven't taught them to be good followers. And you are teaching to be leaders. So it is God's clarity that
carries, you're going to make the return leader, however, want to call it lead with the you know, so some of the mothers so much, you know, whenever they fall off, they're upset or whatever so bothered. And you're going to create these babies into leaders. I don't care what age is, you know, usually there's two babies
over the previous What was the question? tools that you actually use tools on what you use? But also, how do you know what direction to go to? Yeah.
I'm the go to person says don't plan your life. Really? Of course no.
Plans fail. That's rubbish. That's rubbish, why a lot of times always gonna come into play anyway, plenty likely pencil, because I was about for you trust me to take in directions that you don't know is whoops a lie.
That's my humble view, don't make a vision for ourselves for the sake of Allah and want to do things for the sake of Allah. But I've, I feel the kind of view that you know what, have a very fuzzy direction, like somewhere there is clouded, you don't know where you're going along with Archie. And you see that in the sort of use of a sauna that you know, you plan but Allah plans Alice plan will always, always dominate. So
what you should really do is make sure that what let's pantry is good for you. And that should be the case. And the best I was going to be doing with achieve the small things I have achieved so far. No, wait a minute, it is happening. Because you do do it. You just
you may argue as you plan if you can achieve more.
It's really interesting, because as a student, this is the oldest child Oh, I was gonna say
any Yeah, any.
Maybe two ways you could create uni?
Well, if you're not studying for something vocational like engineering, law, nursing, Doctor, maybe pharmacy.
If you think things like pharmaceutical science, biology, history, all these subjects, sociology,
quit wasting money and time. That's maybe because you're just being sheep reacting to the fact that everyone has to get a degree. degrees don't make you intelligent.
Western education teaches you what to think about how to think you could learn what you learned in sociology. In the three degree, you can learn that at least nine months, I think we've self learning, self learning, and not only self learning, but with
buy your own books, you literature, studying material not being motivated to learn.
Actually, that in my life, I didn't study philosophy or theories of the mind or whatever, yeah, I'm able to articulate a case with an analytical professor. And he says, I agree with 95%
as an example, to show that she'll motivate you do much more learning outside of university for sure.
So if it's the sort of learning to be intelligent, then you've got an expensive way to do that quick. And it's pointless because you pick up bad habits anyway. Because he's all about ego, most of it. So quit. Yeah. It will save your soul by books and read. Yeah. And you also do something else. Now, especially for sisters, she know that if you really have a good job in your mind, you take care of you. It's a waste of time. But it could put as a tick box, I have to get the degree because it's part of my self identity. Yeah, these beings, they don't have to do that. He knows who he is. You could have charity work. You could have traveled the world. You can learn things in your own time.
You could have done so many great achievements. But what do you do? Get a degree. I've actually been in one of those discussions in which like, sisters are talking about degree and everything. And they're like, well, I need a degree so that I can be a better teacher for my children. That's rubbish.
Absolutely rubbishing it.
Is that true teachers? Yeah. And
getting a degree will make you a good teacher. getting a degree doesn't make you empathic. And empathetic, doesn't make you compassionate. It doesn't make you tolerant necessarily. It just gives you information. It does teach you to be a good consumer.
I don't think getting a degree teaches you to be a good teacher. Not necessarily. So what would make you a good teacher?
by teaching first
by teaching, but then you have to learn before you teach. So how do they teach you to be a teacher they tell you to teach? Okay, interesting. So clay is immersed in that environment. That's the irony to be a good speaker, as it becomes becomes a squeak. No matter what books you read about how to be a good speaker. It probably won't help you that much guaranteed. Because the people who wrote those books, observed the good speakers who didn't actually so it doesn't mean take them in by the way, throw the book in the bin and just ask
Rule number six advice. Yeah, just going further learning and pretty much one thing is how do you know that you should go in this direction? See, that's what people kind of like.
Like a lot of people to think, Okay, then how do I make that decision whether I'm going to this infinite possibility? Well, you want to say, please Allah. Okay? How can I please Allah with my current natural inclinations, disposition and capacity and skills and capacity? Then it's the power of questionings. If no, that's not the question, though. Yeah, that's really is the other way around. We say, right, where do you want to be? But you missing the point? Why do you want to be where you want to be? We don't ask that question.
What do you do when you grow up? That's the wrong question. You should be observed. What do you do in your life in order to please Allah become a good Muslim? That's a different question. So if we tell our youth,
right, your goal is to please a lot. How are you please alone with the capacities with a nature? With the intonation skills that you have at the moment? You might you know what I really, really like helping others. But do it, find yourself other than I got big enough, I really could talk to talk, yellow speak. And that's it. You have to always have the right questions. And we still don't follow the Quranic strategy of the power of questioning. We don't. And Allah teaches us Christians all the time gives us questions. But we don't we just keep on looking at the goal, which is a problem. And that's where we end up
happy, because Oh, I didn't achieve what was achieved. But your goal was pleasing Allah, but the outcome is if you write yourself the right question, you end up in the right place. I think, hopefully, yeah. Yeah. Because I've seen it like, like, when some people do create goals, they become so attached to it that like, even after the like, they achieve that goal, they find themselves depressed. Because they they end was to get that goal. Was it like to kind of, I guess, like, it comes back to asking the right question. And that's actually a very simple but very profound, to make quick to make decisions, ask the right questions. And you think that that kind of
like mayhem that we're in right now social weather, you know, like new negativity and things like that? Is it because we don't ask the right questions, or we're not people have thought? 100%? Yeah, no question I get from Muslims. And without being sounding arrogant, I'm like, What a stupid person as well, like, some of these brothers and sisters. They think so much to get the best mortgage, or the best car. They study analyzed, political and didn't have a law, they don't even bother to switch their brain on. Honestly, it's like, the mouth is on first and the brain is dead. Right? And I'm thinking, in our mission to answer the question, we should teach them not to think
it decides itself, because we see this in our lives, good mobile phone contract to good house, even when you need a good husband or wife.
Anything put so much thought and thinking into it. But when it comes to these, like, it's I don't get it. Our motivations are quite twisted. Yeah. And I think that's to do without bringing in commercial environment. The Bling, bling. Yeah, L'Oreal because of my thick culture. So.
So how do you think?
How do I think now like, how does it fit together? How do you think it's all about? Like you said that people should we should be a people of thought, how do you become a person of thought? Like, what's going on? In your mind? Right now, you're looking out? Like, how do you analyze this? Without being like,
efficient? Yeah, I think thinking is a conscious decision, then it becomes a habit. So you've to give snapshot snapshot of yourself and thing to say, right?
Let me think about this. You know, you ask questions, and some of you want to stray away. I think that's naive sometimes. Because each think about
so we need to teach people just to be conscious and saying I couldn't be thinking about this, which, again, the power of questioning, what are its implications? If I can't answer the question, does it really mean anything?
Is the right question.
What do I mean by this? or What does it mean? etc. So ask the right questions about a particular thing.
they, for example, take the atheist narrative, somebody to say,
if God was a turtle, and before creation, there was nothing by him. Who is he doing?
I don't like he was doing what he was doing.
I was asked the question, I'll answer that question. Does that undermine God's existence?
So is it the right question? No, really? If I had chosen the other room last week, you don't know what I was doing. Does it mean I was in the room last week?
You would think to get that question and apply it and extend it and and and you know, manipulate it and try and apply to different scenarios and the logical that basis, the assumption that the question, seek the assumption, because
we mustn't forget so
overwhelmed by things, thinking that oh my god, you know how this affects my religion? You know, a lot of questions. I've got the Higgs boson. This particular they found that makes up the Higgs field, the Higgs field was this field that was switched on any universe. And he gave particles mass today oh my god does exist anymore. Because they found the particle It was called the God Particle. But there is a good the good particle, because before the goddamn particle physics can find it.
And I like to look
they found a particle, how does that undermine anything? Think about your question. Think about reality.
What is the implications of this? And when you give people the power of questions that gets them to think in different ways, and solve it when you get used to? Yeah. Do you think you need to put aside the time because everything? No to say you just need to switch up the TV, switch off Facebook, Twitter,
etc. Much we all go out too much. Eat unnecessary social gathering victory gossip.
I just think
like a completely new tangent. Currently podcast, by the way. Oh, it's really good. Yeah, we're gonna be wrapping up shortly. So yeah, I'm kind of social weather in Australia is quite negative towards Muslims in general. And some people
like even like our relatives, they're like, scared to go out. Because of like, the possible hate? How, how can we come to terms with this hate and progressive kind of like sow the seeds of change in the society that could possibly not want the seeds of change?
There's no question. I think we should have pre framed people. The mini pre frame if you pre frame someone in if even if it's a non Muslim,
and your whole relationship with them, is going to be by the lenses that we created, hate, fear, whatever the case may be, see pre framing,
don't pre frame them.
And we, we saw this to be the case with abroad. This is some a phobia, study or testing public. And he found that the majority of the Australian public were very kind of stick up for brothers and sisters when there was racist or Islamophobic. abuse. Yeah. So there's no need to pre frame people. That's the number one point don't pre frame and when you do that is a blank canvas, you can engage with them in a new realm with a new realm of possibility with that person.
So don't pre frame securely do what you have to do. Ignore the circumstances. Because the minute you
your focus too much on the circumstances, you're a slave to circumstance Sahaba would like that, because then you everything happened because the widow pahala. So you got the circumstance, right? If we're gonna do stay at home, there's still gonna be a she goes side is still gonna be Yeah, so the point is,
it's cancelled out. so hates everywhere. So the point is, you still have to deal with it.
You know, it makes a difference deal with it? No. And you can do it by being positive.
So, just a final question, I just want to ask you back on what you said about planning. So how do you go about planning your day, then? I mean, is it just like, you wake up and you're like, I'm gonna fly off to Sydney and do a course? Obviously, not sorted by T string, your diary. But your diary and you got to the point in the day.
Do you plan the week? Yeah. What kind of actions I have to do, because it's a natural thing that you're doing it naturally. You don't really
want to be planning your actions and planning your life. Yeah, that's why men, I think over planning your life is lack of talk or lack of reliance on Allah, because he's already atrophy anyway. So where are you do? You know, a lot of places. So I think we rely on a lot more than you plan. That's my point. And that's just kind of pencil. It doesn't actually work. Obviously. Can you eat Can you do a preliminary
You know, though, planning for the vision of your life, yeah. And the big milestones in your life and all of these things alone ticket pieces that you don't know, he's got things planned for you that you have no idea about. And he will take your pieces just be sincere, do the action, a lot of the rest. The point is, we plan we we assume the role of a luff and we would like to be served by us, but we need to be sincere, and we need to do the job
plan manifests itself to be Cincinnati's action. What we do is we plan which is really our job ultimately. Yeah. And we weren't allowed to do the action for us. And we weren't allowed to be sincere for us, even when we use role reversal. Yeah. Which is a spiritual disease again, confusion. Yeah, just have a cause I plan. decency to the action of law would change it make you better add to it, take you places that you would have never imagined I would never realize. She taught me 10 years ago I've been Australia, Malaysia, America.
Many parts of America, Canada, South Africa, Denmark, Sweden, Norway.
so many different places. Dubai, Qatar
I would have said no way possible. Yeah. I see you having a lot yeah. So ballot so you think you've opened it
up? Probably not because I guess what what consulting now but they can imagine themselves doing it. So pretty much when it comes to like your day to day like your your day your week you plan it in so that you know you get to get things done and be organized.
Short term plan so one week to week maximum maybe a month. Yeah. Heidi never more than a month. Yeah, but just generally for life. You can Selena and then you're just open to possibilities pretty much Yes. If I can because plan is an intuitive process. You never you're supposed to follow the plan is intuitive. It changes as you will actually do the more you realize, Oh, actually actually doing this. So planning is an iterative process. It can change you can amend it's a mechanism to help you achieve what you want to achieve.
Unfortunately, it's all about time for today. Once again, thank you so much for joining us Hamza. our listeners will definitely benefit from this and more planning more short term. Yes, again, thank you so much, Michael.
Alright, so that concludes the interview with Hamza sources. inshallah, you benefited from that and enjoyed the conversation that we had with him. I know, a friend I really enjoyed it immensely, and we learned a lot. And for more interviews like this one, and access to our past and future episodes, make sure to get our mobile podcast app, you can get access to all the episodes and it automatically updates with the latest episodes that we have. Plus some cool features like you can download episodes and listen to them later without having to stream them and you can email the show straight from the app. So make sure you get it from your local Apple windows or Android app store today. As
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