Muhammad Salah – Fiqh Of Love Episode #12 The Engagement

			Salam Alaikum salam. My name is John Fontaine and welcome back to another episode of The fic of
love. I'm joined today by Dr. Muhammad Allah Azza wa Alaykum salam Wa Rahmatullah wa Ketu. Thank
you, John. How's it going? Wonderful and Hamdulillah you know, so far, in the last episode we were
speaking about is the Kyla. Yeah, where you know, some Subhanallah people, you know, who are
interested in marriage, they've been doing their homework, they've, you know, done their research on
this and an individual, you know, they've, they've consulted the community, they've consulted their
family and friends. And they've also prayed istikhara and at this point, they found somebody who,
		

			you know, this is a good match. So they've actually gone and approach the guardian, or the other way
around, and they've decided that they want to get married. Okay, so my question is, today, I want to
discuss the concept, or the Islamic concept of the engagement. Yeah.
		

			Well, Smilla Rahmanir Rahim Al hamdu lillah wa salatu salam, ALA and we have our back. Exactly as
you said, you follow the certain beautiful sequence the investigation of the individual, then
consulting people and trying to Sahara then, when you feel comfy, you proceed on towards the
proposal, or the girl proceeds on tours, except in the proposal, whether the girl or her guardian.
So the next step is to do what is known as HIPAA. In Arabic, the term HIPAA, HIPAA thought that,
that margiotta could be pronounced as hot water is the level of speech, the hot water Joomla, or the
eight, but hit bar with a customer? Or is there beneath the first letter refers to the engagement?
		

			And engagement in Islam is totally different than engagement in the UK? Well, you guys have? Yeah, I
wanted to ask you about this, because, you know, you mentioned just in the break, was speaking about
this, you mentioned engagement. And, of course, from the non Muslim perspective, from my background
before as a Muslim and engagement is when you know, you've proposed to a woman she's accepted. So
then you would,
		

			you would kind of be like boyfriend and girlfriend for maybe two or three years, you would live with
each other? You even in England, they even have children, and this is all before the marriage. And
of course, this isn't the type of engagement that you're referring to? No, that's totally different.
We're talking about a fact of love and engagement and marriage and marriage contract, all from an
Islamic perspective. So the hotbar, or the engagement is a proposal to get married, and it doesn't
exceed being mere promise to get married. So it does not actually make any lawful, unlawful. No,
does it make any lawful? Lawful, if you understand what I mean? Yes. So for innocence when you
		

			propose to God, and the family, do their part, investigate your background, and they praise the
Hara. And they say, yeah, and they accept your proposal. In this case, they give you a promise that
she will marry you. That's called engagement. So it is mere promise to marry that person. Which in
other words, means that no one else can propose because you already proposed and your proposal have
been accepted. So you're given the word that it's okay. You will marry her. We haven't done any
marriage contract yet. But this is a misconception because people think merely being interested in
someone would actually stop someone else proposing. No, no, no, because you can be interested. And
		

			you don't show that you don't actually take any steps towards that. You don't propose you to visit
the guardian. You don't even talk to her. So how would I know? You know?
		

			The person who happened to propose first let's say that five people propose at a time go ahead and
propose only when the garden or the God says yeah, I pray the Sahara and I think I like that guy. So
now we are in the in the stage of engagement. That's it, the door is closed, no one else can
propose. But while they have not granted a word to anyone, as many people as possible can propose no
problem.
		

			Meanwhile, we know that a guy can propose a go and visit this family and this family and this family
and multiple families in the same time or within a period of a few days, because he wants to see
this, he also see that, and meanwhile, they will get to see him, he doesn't know who would accept
them. So all of that does not give any commitment to any person, only when the proposal is accepted.
And now they are in engaged. And this engagement, there is nothing official to be done like
exchanging rings or writing down a contract, no commitment whatsoever, besides the fact that no one
can propose to her. So we visit the family. John, is my daughter's fiance fiance in Arabic coffee.
		

			Yanni, he got engaged to my daughter, what does it mean? In the engagement period? No one can
propose because they are getting married when sooner so in a few months, so they're in the stage of
actually preparing for the actual but the decision has been made. Yeah. So that's why known as the
messenger of Allah peace be upon him said in the Hadith, she has noted while do not number may Allah
give us an admin his father Laya. A Hydra Comala? What Yeah, he, no one should propose to a woman,
while somebody is have already proposed and their proposal have been accepted, even though they're
not married. Some people say what they're not married yet. But they accepted that guy. So it is not
		

			permissible, because it creates hatred. And Islam blocks the means which lead to hatred, not only in
the wedding, but also in business transaction. You know, you're interested in buying a particular
item. And you made a deal with the guy and he should interest how much he said 50 grand, so Okay.
And you're talking about you haven't paid yet. No one else has had to jump in to say I would pay
more. So shake. How long would this engagement be from Islamic perspective? You know, what's, you
know, because sometimes you hear of even Muslim engagements being over a year long, for instance,
yeah. In fact, Islam did not limit the engagement period to a certain period or timeframe.
		

			It's basically based on the conditions of the cup. Sometimes a father says, you know, look, my
daughter is in her final, she's having her last year, and her exams will be in 15 months. So she
will not get married before she graduates. I don't want her to get pregnant, they get busy with the
kids and robbers school. So she's been doing very well at school. She's gone a long way I want her
to finish. Is this legitimate reason? Yes, it's a legitimate reason. Okay. You can say, well, uncle,
I promise that I will let her finish her education, etc. But if the garden insists, because of many
incidents, that he's seen that some of the girls have dropped school, he doesn't want his daughter
		

			to drop school. So it lasts for a year, for a year and a half.
		

			But the engagement period is recommended to be short, a matter of weeks, a matter of months. Not too
long. But Islam does not forbid or does not restrict and say must be not more than a year. It
doesn't say that. Okay, so as long as it's agreed upon by the family, and everyone, everyone agrees,
and yes, there's no problem, but you recommend it to be as short as possible. Exactly. Why because
Subhanallah in case that the engagement lasted four years, then any party any of them decided to
break off, it becomes heartbreaking. Like they were already married,
		

			three years, four years, guess what, some people get engaged. I'm talking about in Muslim Societies
for five and more years. And I've actually witnessed this myself, I've I've come across many
situations like this, where people have prolonged the engagement for nearly two years, and then it
doesn't work out, you know, and they've invested so much time, energy and love even into this
engagement with the hope of be married and it didn't work out, okay. And somebody gets hurt, you
know, and then people fall into depression, etc. This is the second
		

			you know, when the engagement period is prolonged, the get used to each other like they're already
married. Yes. So he's coming into their house day and night, sometimes no one is home, they're going
out and so on. This is cultural, and that is not permissible. So we said, it does not make any
unlawful lawful. So that's so just to clarify, so there is no it doesn't give them rights over each
other. Now, now that is me.
		

			It doesn't change the ruling of the relationship halal and haram. In some cultures in the maybe
Muslim, but they have different cultures. They are almost living as if the married, you know he's
telling her what to do what not to do, etc. What do you say about this? Well, it when it comes to
the arrangement for the future marriage life, this is different than approaching the girl and
treating her as if she is your wife already. or dealing with your fiancee. The girl deals with her
fiancee as if that is her husband or it? No, he is not your husband yet. So when he comes home, or
he comes to pick it up from school, you don't hug you don't kiss you don't shake hands and say I
		

			missed you. What have you been? And you get used to each other like no, you're still strangers to
each other. With regards to the relationship of halal and haram. In Islam, there is either a
Muharram Osman or an ash Nebby Amma Haram are those whom you are not allowed to marry forever, like
a brother and uncle or grandfather or son
		

			steps on but the edge Nabil or the foreigner or the stranger is somebody who He is neither your
husband.
		

			Nor is he your Muharram. So in this case, you're not allowed even to shake hands. So you're alone
going out together, some of the young ones who are engaged or maybe they're not even engaged or just
interested in each other.
		

			You know, maybe they want to go. So coffee shop or they want to go to the mall. Alone. Would this be
okay? No, we've spoken about that before going out with a girl or going out, the girl is going out
with a boy in order to get to know Him. That is not permissible. Here in this program, we are
explaining what is halal and haram.
		

			And we'll say that we are not going to impose what is cultural over what is Islamic. So it is our
duty while discussing this to show the youth and to show the parents maybe in your culture is
different. But this is what Allah his Messenger peace be upon him says the hippo was mentioned in
Surah Baqarah Chapter number two, verse number 235 A lot Almighty says Well, as you know, had a
femur are rotten, the human health of it in this a conundrum fee and physical.
		

			Which means there is no blame upon you. When it comes to
		

			giving a hand
		

			can concerning proposing to a woman who has been widowed during the waiting period or the idea? It
is not permissible to
		

			tell a woman who lost her husband, and she's a widow, the waiting period is four months and 10 days.
It is not permissible to say, I'd like to marry you. That is not permissible. You know, it's not
permissible to send somebody to tell her that I want to marry you. But given a hand like what Dylan
her brother, you know, your sister Michelle has a very good sister. I think once the ad is over, she
would find a lot of people a lot of people show interest. Indirectly It's okay. So this is where the
thermal healthbar is mentioned in the foragers o'clock, because I know we're just going to take a
very short break and we'll be right back. So those of you are at home listening. Stay tuned, we'll
		

			be right back. Salam.
		

			Salam Alaikum Welcome back to the thick of love Solloway comm shared while it was Salam wa
rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh associate just before the break you were saying that being engaged to
someone who doesn't really make anything lawful or unlawful is no you know, you're not married yet.
you elaborate on it doesn't make anything lawful Allah for. Like,
		

			no, does it make any a lowball offer, she spoke about the Allahu Allah term, I cannot touch this
woman because she's not my wife. And she's not my mom. So engagement would not give me the
legitimacy to touch her to get her to kiss her or to be in private with her because she is still a
number one to me. Only when we do the marriage contract, enjoy it. Shake we have, of course in this
day and age, you have social media, WhatsApp, Facebook, Instagram, all the other Graham's different
types of social media things where where maybe people can have contact with each other. How should
this be regulated practicing Muslim men or Muslim woman younger or they know their limitations? They
		

			do not unnecessary.
		

			Certainly interact with the opposite gender just for the sake of chatting. You know? No, this is not
the case. So why would I talk to a woman who is not lawful for me? She's not my wife.
		

			She's not my family member. On what basis? Why? Why would they say that? You look cool. You look
nice. I like your figure. I like your glasses. I like your hairstyle. What Muslims do not do that?
What about pictures and videos and these, likewise, exchanging videos and pictures? We said in the
engagement period, this is a period of preparation for what will come next. It just simply mere
promise that we're going to get married. And guess what? Either one of them has the full freedom to
call it off without any commitment. Not only the the man, the fiancee, the male, but also the girl
can say, I'm not interested. Here are your gifts. What about my wali as well, if he's not her
		

			guardian, if he's not happy with the situation, again, if the Guardian during the engagement found
out some information, which led to a change in the view dramatically, also, he has the right to
withdraw his consent, because he's playing the role of, you know, securing the future of the girl
who's under his God and checking. And also it doesn't make
		

			any lawful unlawful. So, you know, if you marry a girl, then you divorce her human woman and divorce
her, then it's absolutely forbidden to marry her mom or her daughter or stepdaughter because you got
married to this woman. But in the case of engagement, no, okay, simply because you have not gotten
married yet. You know, after the the marriage contract, then in case of separation, there will be
lot of commitments, there will be enough, aka there will be add, there will be that our issue will
keep that out. But in case of separation during the divorce, whether it's he decided, you know, I
just realize that I'm not the right person for you. That's a nice way to phrase it. Or she decided
		

			the
		

			the same and she called it off. So we say the gifts if the man is demanding his gifts, which are
still like valuable gifts, and they still exist, should be refunded and returned back to him.
		

			gold rings Nicholas.
		

			Cash Money. Some people give valuable gifts, vehicles, okay. But the gifts which are even though
this is not a part of the matter, because it's not just the gifts, it's just the gift, okay. But
there are some gifts which are either disposable have been consumed, or in the form of food drink.
Like, he took the whole family once for dining outside. And he paid like 500 bucks. What 1000 They
broke the engagement. So he would then come back and say, you know, I took you for dinner? I want
that much money? No, of course not. But, you know, during the engagement, he was so kind that to buy
her a diamond ring. That's $700 or 770 and $100. So during the engagement, if either one of them
		

			decided to call it off, he has the right to collect those valuable gifts. As long as you still
exist. Okay, all the values, give him back his gifts. Some people say well, because you heard her
feeling? Well, because he promised to marry her. And he did not marry her. Well, isn't it better
than marrying her then divorcing her? It will be even worse. Okay. Yeah. No, SubhanAllah. That makes
that makes a lot of sense. So, so just to clarify, as well, that the woman, she has the right, of
course to call it off. But she also has the right to choose her husband in the first place. Of
course. So the beginning from the engagement, but what would have other say this guy's good. Okay,
		

			let me get to know Him. And during the engagement, she found out that she cannot tolerate him. But
what would happen, for instance, if the Guardian actually
		

			gave her away without her permission? Now that's not permissible. Would the marriage contract still
be he will be contingent on her approval? If she doesn't approve it? No, that's not permissible. And
again, I would like to bring to the attention of the viewers. We're talking about Islam perspective,
not the cultural person. Yeah. Whether in Egypt, whether in Pakistan or India, or people do a lot of
things, then Islam will be blamed for it. No, that is not the case. So what can what can we do at
home, wherever we live in across the world, maybe we are born or we're in a certain culture, which
have certain practices, maybe our family they're expecting certain things they expect like a
		

			wedding.
		

			I'm sorry, an engagement party, maybe even, you know, not not a walima for the, for the wedding, or
even an engagement party, or they expect certain things which maybe they're not against Islam. So
you've got things that are actually against Islam and things that, you know, not that they're
permissible what some people throw a party and engagement party. And it's in a halal way, so that
the men are together and the women together and they're celebrating and having fun, exchanging
gifts.
		

			It is some sort of acknowledgement that these two guys are engaged now. Yeah, fine. Islam will not
forbid them from making such party. But this is not the act, no consequences whatsoever on breaking
of the engagement, even after making a party and informing people that were engaged. So as we said,
earlier, she too has a right to call it off if she wants to. But what can we do for instance, if our
family, they're really pressuring us to do things that are not a part of Islam?
		

			Yet you understand that? Yeah, I perfectly understand. And I want to tell you one thing, a person
who really loves Allah and His Messenger Salallahu Salam would not let anyone will not let anyone
under regular circumstances, make them disobey Allah, or get involved in an act of disobedience. We
know what happens in the engagement. Boys and girls, they get together, boys are not dressed up
properly. They they sometimes even drink he, you know, they dance, and this is an engagement. No,
that's not permissible. So if one of the families like, you know, the groom's family or the girl's
family, insistent that in our family will normally have this tradition, and all her cousins, they
		

			must get together, and they dance and they sing songs and so on. I'm not interested. You know, and
that's why from the beginning, we made the investigation, we consulted people and all pray this,
look, if we're not on the same page from the, from the beginning, then we're better off not to
continue here. But you know, sometimes people put on an extra religious face beforehand, you know,
when when your inquiry and maybe the extra religious, you know, they, they come across, they, they
they lie about who they are sometimes, but you see, that's why the engagement is really important.
Because you cannot just keep pretending forever. So when the guy is visiting, and it's a lot of
		

			time, he didn't make any move to pray, ask for a time. He didn't show any interest to pray. Okay.
You see him while he's praying. He's looking around. He seems like this is his first time that is
offering the prayer that gives you an impression of what kind of person whom you're dealing with.
Okay, yeah, it is not the saying. And some people blame the goal is for being very strict and asking
the guy questions like how much you memorize the Quran? Do you know how to read the numbers of Arab?
And do you know that book? And who do you listen to? And who are the chef you study with? I don't
blame them. We live in a very weird time. So people can pretend whatever, so the person must make
		

			certain and that's why I like to call it investigation. I don't know if you agree with me, but this
is how I would really find out and especially during the engagement I have a better chance to
investigate further and to find out more about the person Subhanallah so Subhanallah if a man he or
even the woman they want to see the the fiancee you know if they want to see more than one time is
this okay? It is okay to meet as long as you're meeting in the presence of a family member. And
you're avoiding what is known as halwa. What is Halawa? Halwa is whenever you and I are alone, any
person by himself or any person and another, particularly a male and a female, are alone and behind
		

			closed doors, where there is a possibility if they wanted to do something like have an intimacy they
can why because we feel secure. doors are closed, no one is watching us. So this halwa the Prophet
sallallahu Sallam forbade a halwa between a man and a woman who are not related to each other. They
are another marker to each other, or are they married to each other? And not only that, he said
Subhanallah in the Hadith, whenever a man and a woman happened to be alone in this halwa Donna alone
		

			and thank you for bringing this up, because that happens a lot during the engagement because a lot
of people do not perceive the concept of engagement
		

			correctly from an Islamic perspective. So he's coming home. Oh is my fiancee, mommy Okay. Say hi.
		

			To him, what are you going, I'm going to the grocery store, and she leaves him alone with a god.
That is not permissible. This guy isn't her husband, and your daughter is not Virgin Mary. You know,
she's a human being. So the messenger of Allah peace be upon him said in laka Anna Shavon Osiris,
for whom whenever a man and a woman happened to be alone, in one place behind closed doors, then the
third is Satan. Sapan what does it mean? The Quran says, Let me tell you how to how to shape or who
you believe. follow not the footsteps of Satan. Do you think that Satan would come to a believing
young man who's practicing or a God who's wearing hijab and praying five times a day Masha Allah,
		

			and she's religiously committed, and inspire them to commit adultery? Of course not. But one thing
at a time. So they get together. And he says, You really look so nice.
		

			And then she signed off, then, in a few minutes, you too, you look nice, how what kind of colonial
wearing what kind of like your clothes and you start touching. And one thing leads to another
mirror, looking at the fiancee, as long as you've made up your mind and handler, you've seen her a
few times, then you still commanded to lower your gaze, because again, she's not your wife
JazakAllah herscherik. Very, very important points there. And I think that's actually clarified a
lot of misconceptions that many people maybe should avoid engagement in the UK. Yeah. I mean, as I
said, it's not something you hear used a lot, not in a halal way. You know, it's usually in a very
		

			cultural kind of way, and in the wrong way, a lot of the time. So yeah, may Allah accept this and
hopefully people can benefit from just like Lakeisha
		

			Thank you. So make sure you join us next time for another episode of the thick of love Salam Alaikum
Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh